# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Lightest weight survival rifle

## 7mmsaum

Goat culling in my teenage years was hard on .22 rimfires, usually the extractor failure preceded the accuracy decline but the result was always the same, into the offal hole it went.

For some strange reason I had a run of lakefields and sterlings, and only one AR-7 which was on loan from my father, it has a plastic hollow stock that the action and barrel fitted into. Apparently it floated.

I progressed to modified Remington Targetmasters to remove all the weight, and made alloy skeleton stocks for them.  The single shot platforms were reliable, but had the Marlin "Papoose" been around that would have been the bizzo.

I used my model 7's (saum's) for rafting and motorbike riding, they easily fit in a pack and are small.

Has anyone here any pics or ideas for a lightest weight "survival" type rifle, .22 or otherwise ?

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

http://www.packrifle.com/packriflepictures.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6Q7m-HFj4

A good read here....
http://bubbleheadgunnut.wordpress.co...-down-part-ii/

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## .22-250 everything

Im guessing a single shot option would be by far the lightest... Could you get a carbon fibre stock made for one of the many break open options out there. Flute the barrel and then mill any other un required metal out. Replace all screws with lighter options.. No recoil pad to speak of just harden up. What other mods are there?

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## Bill999

surprised to see such long and unfluted barrels. a chop and routing session will cut the weight of any of the above if you really cared that much

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## 7mmsaum

Thats true Bill999, your comment shows just how far we have come in the last 5 years, I know I have personally learned a lot from the forum and had the same thoughts as yourself.

I'd also say New Zealand is up there with the leaders in rifle innovations of late, there's some nice gear being made here now, and some outstanding rifles are in the development/testing stage as we speak.

We just need powder technology to catch up.

So, A big rifle is not needed for a 223, would this make for the lightest centrefire Survival rifle?

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## gimp

M6 scout is cool. Not the lightest, but cool. I want one. I will give someone money for one.

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## 7mmsaum

That .410 would be handy gimp, slugs, buckshot and waterfowl/upland game loads-----  hard to go hungry with that combo

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## ChrisF

They look cool , but are very over priced , I brought a SS  M6 Scout  22lr/410 model when they came in NZ , because , I HAD to have one , they looked so NEAT , it would have stayed in my safe if it was Harder , the SS barrel/chamber was so soft the rear of the chamber was getting penned badly by the hammer after only 10-2- rds , THATS not good enough in my book , and I flicked it on to some one else who had too have one .
Also the iron sights on the M6 Scout are crap .

I would NEVER buy a StainlessSteel  one , my pick would be a 22hornet or 22lr in CM ( parkerised / blue steel ) .

worth really 400 & NOT the 800 + they go for usually .

A contender in 22lr or hornet would be a better option .

Later  Chris

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## ChrisF

The AR-7 , was another case of cool looking over function , they where not very accurate or reliable , opps , the barrel was a thin barrel liner inside a aluminium outer ,

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## 7mmsaum

I hear you there chris, my fathers ar 7 would occasionally fire two rounds with a touch of the trigger or just empty the mag in one continous rip.

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## Clint Ruin

Had an ar -7 in store the other week.  Very light and drew a lot of attention due to its novelty/cool factor . .

Its owner said it was a fun thing to use but not all that accurate.

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## Bill999

what purpose is it likely to serve? they all seem like the they are overly simplified for no particular reason. ergonomics seem poor. 
Id personally start with a 10-22 chop it to 16inches and bullpup it in a lightweight stock. 
would eventually end up as a glorified pistol that could be shoulder fired. 
Illegal, yes. compact and extreamly handy, also yes.

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## Beavis

I'd rather have a Kel Tec SU16 stowed away if I was flying over "hostile" territory. Light weight and doesn't take up much space, but has balls.

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## 7mmsaum

> what purpose is it likely to serve? they all seem like the they are overly simplified for no particular reason. ergonomics seem poor. 
> Id personally start with a 10-22 chop it to 16inches and bullpup it in a lightweight stock. 
> would eventually end up as a glorified pistol that could be shoulder fired. 
> Illegal, yes. compact and extreamly handy, also yes.


Bill999, its going to sit in my pack as I fish the mid/upper Hawkes Bay and lower Wairarapa Rivers. Very handy to have.

ATM i use a model 7 and am interested in a lighter/less bulky alternative, -and have resisted using a 454 Cassall :Thumbsup:

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## Bill999

what is the legality of a rimfire up there?. If only pistols were legal to hunt with. Itd save alot of pussyfooting around.

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## 7mmsaum

Bill, I doubt a rimfire is allowed on doc land without a permit.

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## gimp

A "mares leg" style truncated lever action with a micro dot sight or ghost ring would be good.

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## 7mmsaum

Gimp, If you take care of the design we can get it made easy enough

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## gimp

Rossi make a factory version, just need a rail and a microdot and bingo.

The problem is that it's 25" OAL which is legally a pistol in New Zealand.

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## 7mmsaum

That's a pity.

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## gimp

Just buy a cheap .44 mag lever action then cut it to exactly 763mm OAL?

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## 7mmsaum

What is the lightest 44mag rifle availiable here?

I still think an uberlight 223 would be the most versatile, 2-7x33 leupold on top, mercator in pocket, start fishing/hunting !

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## veitnamcam

Pistol?

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## 7mmsaum

> Pistol?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Illegal for hunting in NZ ?

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## ebf

single shot, break open in either 223 or 410, open sights - ghost ring ?

would not trust carbon / alu combo like the pack-rifle, especially on quad or motorcycle.

cheap starter would be a baikal izh18, go to town skeletonizing the fore-end and stock, or replace with carbon

or speak to SSR... should be able to make you something that ticks all the boxes.

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## GravelBen

How light are the lightweight single shots? Be interesting to see how much real difference there is between that and the lightest bolt actions.

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## Druid

Handguns are illegal for hunting in NZ , there was a move to get them accepted about 15 years ago , it almost got Police approval the fell over for some reason .
When you want a survival rifle you need to work back , where and when ,Assuming you are lost in the NZ bush or have survived a boat or aircraft wreck in NZ  or even trapped by rising flood waters then rescue services will probably be after you within a day or so , I think you need a firearm that can shoot both birds and deer and be used for signaling ,Id go for  a 410 fold up single shot with bird shot , slugs and buck to fill this brief , no sights to add weight or fog , absolutely reliable and I own one. Most likely this would happen on DOC controlled land .but stuff worrying about DOC rules  it is a survival situation and needs must .

In the 22's Id go Marlin Papoose and or the Ruger 1022 takedown , forget the centrefires they blow birds to bits 

The AR7 has been a prohibited import into NZ for many years , in the USA one can buy a pistol grip and barrel for the AR7 which slots and screws straight on . NZ shooters caught on to this and a few got in and the Police were none too happy and banned further imports . If you see a green stocked one it came in illegally , probably on a yacht because they were only made after the ban .

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## Bill999

why would you need a semi for a survival rifle? surely a single shot would suffice? 
proabaly be more accurate than a ruger too  :Grin:

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## ebf

> why would you need a semi for a survival rifle?


Beavis you want to answer that one ? Iraq or the zombie invasion ?  :Psmiley: 




> surely a single shot would suffice? 
> proabaly be more accurate than a ruger too


Mate, not all Rugers are like the 10/22  :Grin: , have a look at Ruger No 1, falling block design... bloody nice rifles  :36 1 8:

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## Bill999

yea id still like a N0.1 in 7 rem built into a nice light stock for thar 

But its close to or over two grand for a ruger... and who whats to pay sako money for a ruger?

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## 7mmsaum

Who makes the lightest single shot 410/20/12 gauge ?

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## Toby

Rossi single shot .410 I have used was nothing to carry haha, could probably shave the stock down slim it up a bit if you were really worried about it.

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## ebf

manufacturers specs:

baikal 2.5 kg
rossi (adult) 1.8 kg
rossi (youth) 1.7 kg
norinco jw86 2.6 kg - not sure if this is available in 410

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## ebf

> Bill, I doubt a rimfire is allowed on doc land without a permit.


shotty as well, no ?

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## Druid

> Iv got a 20g  single here I lopped back to 2mm over legal length, just out of curiosity. It's very very short as it turns out. Mean to take the grinder to the action because it looks antisocial but it hasn't happened yet. No front bead, I just taped a torch to the front of it that lines up with the spread and use it as possum medicine for the ones in the roses out front of the house.


Possum would be a major food source in a survival situation , I suggest you tape some recipies to the stock

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## 7mmsaum

Thanks for that info ebf, shottie out of bounds also  :Sad: 

But in a survival situation nobody would point the finger

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## Toby

I think you cant even have a 12gauge on DOC land.

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## gadgetman

I'd go single shot/break open 22lr with a really short barrel and compact scope or longer barrel and open sights. There is plenty out there that you could take with it in a survival situation and you can carry a fair amount of ammo for it easily. Next option would be the same in 223. Generally in a survival situation the rules go out the window, but if you get caught then you've also been found.

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## gimp

Define 'survival situation'

The realistic ones in NZ are flood, earthquake, volcanic event in some areas, or lost in the bush while hunting/tramping

A gun isn't really useful in the first 3, more preparedness and having a 'go bag' ready to leave with essential survival gear, and in the last option, a 'survival rifle' is only useful if you have it on you at all times just in case

Having a lightweight pack rifle for cool factor and shooting stuff that pops up when fishing, tramping, etc is cool though and I'm still trying to think of the best/neatest option


(Did I miss any realistic survival situations?)

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## Toby

So a .223? so it can be used in doc areas needs a butt that can serve as a paddle haha and has to be light weight and compact but accurate enough to shoot game with it. My no butt use your hand as a paddle although a hollowed out butt that has water proof matches and some paracord and stuff in it would be handy if shtf

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## gimp

Instead of having a gimmick rifle with that stuff in the butt or something just be properly prepared with what is in your backpack.

Worst case scenario: you get injured or lost in the NZ bush/mountains somewhere and have to survive while waiting for help (which will be coming eventually because you told someone responsible where you're going and when you will return). So a first aid kit and knowledge of how to use it, shelter and extra layers, means of making fire, some food and water. And an EPIRB.

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## Toby

I'm still keen on this survival rifle, not so much for real use but its fun to plan up in your head or with your mates.use but just like a zombie attack and what you would do its fun to think about

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## gimp

Zombies aren't real and when people talk about them/guns they sound like psychopaths because they are literally fantasising about consequence-free murder of people. It's an incredibly stupid and unfunny trend that should have died out a long time ago.

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## gimp

Lightweight/compact pack rifles are cool for mucking around, shooting rabbits when fishing or in the riverbed when the weather is too bad for tahr hunting, carrying 'just in case I see something', etc

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## Toby

Still fun to make a plan and stuff, have a spot sussed out to go to all the traps to set and so on.

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## Druid

As Gimp says , we dont have nasty things that can eat you here so what is in your pack and what is in your head are most important .
In saying that  a light colapsiable .22 is a fine thing to have along for rabbits and possums and a flame thrower and garlic for those of you who worry about Zombies and Vampires , actually for a lot of you a bright light to keep away the dark and the scary things like Possums and Hedgehogs is probably a first call .

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## ebf

The other side to consider of course is how much ammo do you want to carry, and here 22 sure as heck beats anything else hands down

Druid, please don't tell anyone, but I find hedgehogs especially terrifying  :Grin:  They are sneaky little fcukers, look all cute and cudly, but wait until they get you cornered mate, it gets ugly real fast...

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## veitnamcam

> Druid, please don't tell anyone, but I find hedgehogs especially terrifying  They are sneaky little fcukers, look all cute and cudly, but wait until they get you cornered mate, it gets ugly real fast...


I like em, soposidly they are bad but they are just cute(more so than some evil cat) I have hedge on each side of my property and often hear them snuffling and grunting their way past my bedroom window on the way from one hedge to the other.

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## ebf

ya VC, they do seem to like catfood ! friends of ours feed the entire neighborhoods stray cats, and during summer have a hedgie or 2 coming round late at night to steal cat pellets - had a trail cam on them for a while  :Grin:  

ps, that nasty man Mr Morgan wants all of them dead too !

er, back to survival rifles ?

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## veitnamcam

As for survival rifles I guess we have to ask  7mm the context of "survival rifle"
Is it just the recently coined term for ultra simple/light firearm or an actual survival tool?
You can go at least a week without food(going buy my ab(singular) I and most others could go a lot more)
If you are not injured enough to still be able to move(to pick up the wood pigeon or possum you shot) you are going to make your way out or into a recoverable position.
Survival= Water,food,shelter, warmth. excluding of course complications of injury. Food you can do without as above.
The most important survival item in NZ IMHO is the ability to light a fire.(I have been there)

Then there is a nice light compact rifle you can take when fishing or just incase, which is cool :Have A Nice Day:

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## 7mmsaum

Im in the Kawekas right now looking for sika with dougie and west870mc and its cooling down, dry and dusty up here.
I'm wanting a light rifle to put in my pack so i have something to smack deer while they watch me fish the ngaruroro river. The term ' survival rifle'  is what the yanks call a pack rifle?

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## Toby

so .223?

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## veitnamcam

I thought it was a nut bag preppers term :Grin: 

Pack rifle I understand :Grin:

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## von tempsky fan

Why do they have to be so light, do we also all lose our ability to carry 3kg when in survival mode? whats wrong with a single shot break down in 223

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## ebf

In that case back to the 223 baikal break neck / take down. Chop it, and hack the stock.

Are you happy with open sights for this pack rifle?

Oh, and pls tell Dougie that rifle better have some scratches on it when it gets back to Welly  :Grin:

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## gadgetman

> Oh, and pls tell Dougie that rifle better have some scratches on it when it gets back to Welly


Don't know about the rifle, but Dougie had a good dose of scratches on the pins.  :Innocent:

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## veitnamcam

> Why do they have to be so light, do we also all lose our ability to carry 3kg when in survival mode? whats wrong with a single shot break down in 223


I refuse to exercise for the sake of exercise. If Im getting fat and unfit its cos this "working for the man" is eating up my time.
when hunting I carry a heavy as walnut sako.
I see the point in a light "WHAT IF" pack rifle but never been introduced to fresh water fishing.

If I cant carry my 8 pound(I have no idea I just know its heavy compared some fancy mates rifles) all up of sako and scope how the hell am I going to carry meat or preferably the whole animal out?

I do see the point in a "maybe" rifle if your a fisherman,bird watcher,god Knows what. 
For me I will just carry that heavy walnut stocked sako any time im legally allowed to. When the time comes that 8 or 12 pounds becomes too much I hope im in the bush somewhere............my family knows where to scatter my ashes :Wink:

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## gadgetman

When I go rabbit shooting I tend to have the 22lr in my hands and a 223 Rem slung over the shoulders with the pack, just in case something else pops up. I don't mind a bit of weight, it helps with traction a lot of the time as I don't have the weight to push the boot cleats into the ground. Also don't get blown about quite so much by the wind. It is a lightish weight cheap mini mauser 223 mind you.

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## Wirehunt

> yea id still like a N0.1 in 7 rem built into a nice light stock for thar 
> 
> But its close to or over two grand for a ruger... and who whats to pay sako money for a ruger?


Who wants to pay sako money for a sako?

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## gimp

> Gimp, infection with psychological effects is not unheard of. 
> 
> An infection that spread by fluid transfer, and caused its victims to become aggressive and unstable is entirely possible. 
> 
> I think dismissing zombie apocalypse entirely is a little short sighted, given that its not outside the realm of possibility.


While it's theoretically possible, such an infection resulting in a widespread epidemic and a 'SHTF' scenario is ludicrously unlikely, and obsessing over shooting the victims of such an unfortunate sickness makes you look like A Fucking Nutbar, because you are.

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## 7mmsaum

So what calibre could theoretically be made the lightest?  

A 223 ?

You don't need much of a stock

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## Kiwi Greg

> So what calibre could theoretically be made the lightest?  
> 
> A 223 ?
> 
> You don't need much of a stock


A 22LR I guess.

But if you wanted something small with some grunt a 22 Terminator springs to mind  :Have A Nice Day:

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## gimp

> Agreed, but when the goo drooling masses come for you, you better be ready.


They're already here, posting about zombies on the Internet

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## Brakelie

> While it's theoretically possible, such an infection resulting in a widespread epidemic and a 'SHTF' scenario is ludicrously unlikely, and obsessing over shooting the victims of such an unfortunate sickness makes you look like A Fucking Nutbar, because you are.


Agreed, "zombies" seems to be a wet dream for shooters as opposed to hunters to justify their latest tacticool gear purchase.  

There have been numerous SHTF events around the world including events like Christchurch which demonstrate how well the rest of the community, country and world come together and help out, running round with a gun just isn't required.  I would be more worried about water purification and storage devices, it takes weeks to starve to death but only days to dehydrate.

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## Toby

Only a second when you get bitten by a zombie

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## pope2506

the new ACC handi rifle blackout single shot weight is 5lb would be the lightest around,its not available yet in  nz, thinking of getting one myself, they are available in australia, at cleaver firearms ,queensland
Nikon P-300BLK Scope Review

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## gimp

> Agreed, "zombies" seems to be a wet dream for shooters as opposed to hunters to justify their latest tacticool gear purchase.  
> 
> There have been numerous SHTF events around the world including events like Christchurch which demonstrate how well the rest of the community, country and world come together and help out, running round with a gun just isn't required.  I would be more worried about water purification and storage devices, it takes weeks to starve to death but only days to dehydrate.


I'm a hunter and a shooter and I own lots of things that could be described as tactical and I think the zombie thing is the dumbest shit. I'd refrain from generalisations

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## 7mmsaum

I have decided on a .223 with 55g Gamekings for this and will talk to Scott at SSRNZ.CO.NZ asap about an alloy receiver build.

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## Digit

Short barreled .223/.308 T3 or Rem 700 in an MDT LSS Chassis with folding stock adapter.

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## oneshot

> In that case back to the 223 baikal break neck / take down. Chop it, and hack the stock.
> 
> Are you happy with open sights for this pack rifle?
> 
> Oh, and pls tell Dougie that rifle better have some scratches on it when it gets back to Welly



Baikal for sure, cheap enough to have as a spare or back up, accurate enough to do the business.

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## 1justin

lol classic zombie talk, should we start inporting apc's with 50 cal machine guns on top, pack/survival rifle has a cool factor, i go tramping more than hunting would love the lightest weight posible rifle to take with me when im just tramping,

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## 7mmsaum

Have decided on a 223 and now would like to find a rifle thats very small and light so i can fish rivers without it bulking up my pack

I don't mind modifying something to suit.

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## 199p

What about one of those howa micro action. 
Change stock and cut barrel to 12"  add suppressor

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## LJP

How about a Thompson Contender? Seriously small, single shot 223. Put a pistol forend on, chop barrel to minimum length, flute barrel for extra weight savings.

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## 7mmsaum

Both great ideas, will look into it today

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## mikee

> Have decided on a 223 and now would like to find a rifle thats very small and light so i can fish rivers without it bulking up my pack
> 
> I don't mind modifying something to suit.


my pighunter mate has just brought a "rossi" (I know. I know) in .223, had the barrel cut down so total length is a inch over "minimum length" and suppressed it. 
Fitted a Tasco PDP3 red dot to it and reckons its the bees knees for getting thru the scrub etc. 
Since most of his shots are 30 yards or less he say velocity loss with short barrel makes bugger all difference
It is certainly nice and short/pointable

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## StrikerNZ

Savage Lightweight Hunter could be considered.. 5.5lbs bare in .223. Fluted bolt, milled action, skinny barrel. Either Stainless/Synthetic, or Wood/Blue comes to same weight. Sweet wee shooters too. Feels like a .22 to carry and shoot.

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## Dr. Watson

5lb and very compact.

And it's accurate and if i miss I have 29 more chances :Thumbsup:

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## veitnamcam

How much does it weigh with the suppressor and 30 rounds?

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## Kiwi Greg

22 Terminator, 70 GMX at 31-3150, 4.26 lbs,  :Cool: 



Pig at 300 yards




http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...minator-13685/

The barrel could be cut down to make it even more compact, currently 18" barrel, cutting it down to 11" would make over legal length  :Thumbsup: 

Goodness knows how much velocity you would lose ?

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## Dr. Watson

But will it fit in a very little back pack  :Grin:  

She took the little AR up the hill and I took the deer.

She's 4.

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## Spanners

My current pack gun


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Kiwi Greg

> But will it fit in a very little back pack  Attachment 43629
> 
> She took the little AR up the hill and I took the deer.
> 
> She's 4.


Very nice  :Have A Nice Day:

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## 7mmsaum

> My current pack gun
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What do they weigh ?

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## Spanners

> What do they weigh ?


Cant remember. Will throw on scales when home

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## Tommy

What's the purple thing in the underside of the stock? Is that where you stick the mag when you fold it up and the trigger guard goes into the magazine well? Or is that the thing you pull to release the sock and fold it up. I've handled one but hadn't noticed that particular bit

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## rossi.45

Brno singleshot in 300BLK with 12'' barrel & suppressor making total of 16'' with a modified ACE style side folding butt with a 2-7 Leupold on top with M2 turrets

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## Ranger 888

I think the value of the AR-7 is it's weight (2 1/2 pounds) and compactability- you can throw it in a small daypack. It's not for survival, but more for handy plinking (rabbits, possums, etc) on a tramping/fishing trip. They were designed originally as a US Airforce crew survival rifle. They are sufficiently accurate at short ranges.

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## 260rem

A good light weight survival rifle IMO is a 500 nitro express nothing will be standing after a hit from that 😊

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## Barefoot

Kel-tec, think they are about $1500 here?

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## Tommy

> What is this?


I've handled a couple, and it was nasty as hell. If it shoots well, great, it just doesn't have anything else going for it that's for sure

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## Spanners

> I've handled a couple, and it was nasty as hell. If it shoots well, great, it just doesn't have anything else going for it that's for sure


Other than the fact its light weight, folds in half and takes AR mags

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## Tommy

> Other than the fact its light weight, folds in half and takes AR mags


So does a lightweight AR. (Cept fold in half, but in half it does go obviously).

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## Spanners

> So does a lightweight AR. (Cept fold in half, but in half it does go obviously).


So does a cut down Baikal.. beats the in all aspects except mags

Whats your point?

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## Tommy

> So does a cut down Baikal.. beats the in all aspects except mags
> 
> Whats your point?


It's nasty as hell, takes AR mags, goes in half, but so does an AR for similar money without feeling like it's made by fisher-price. What's your point?

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## Spanners

> It's nasty as hell, takes AR mags, goes in half, but so does an AR for similar money without feeling like it's made by fisher-price. What's your point?


Find me a NEW AR for $1000nz in NZ, that weighs the same thats not a piece of shit.... you wont and cant fulfill any of the 3 requirements because its a complete fantasy.

Thanks for your indepth review of a gun that a few posts back you questioned the basic design and function of even after having 'handled one', but apparently you've 'have handled a few' more in the last 4 days, so will be an expert now.

If I wanted to post a AR in the 'Lightest Survival Rifle' thread I would have posted a pic of one of the 10 or 15 or however many of the things I have, head back over to the 'best wannabe groupie commando ninja warrior gun' thread.

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## Tommy

Nope. I just said it was nasty and I hope it shot well. The tag on the couple that I saw were $1600, not $1k. You can easily put together a $1600 AR of similar weight that is better than that thing. The reason why we couldn't take the one variant that was at the end of the rack  down in the shop was because the peice of shit felt like it was going to break when we did. Even the staff said it was a piece of shit. Congratulations on having 10 or 15 things, I don't have that many so I must be somehow inadequate? I just might actually, who knows? However, the last thing I put together, I waited on the barrel for three weeks to arrive from Wellington, I could have walked there and back in that time, while the seller ignored my queries after a week and a half, bullshitted about why it hadn't left when he finally did respond, blamed other people after that, on and on. Maybe I should have posted on the "tardme" winners thread? Or would that be too mall ninja?

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## Spanners

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## Tommy

Nice feedback bro

https://www.bidbud.co.nz/members/feedback/2588299

Says it all really

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## dogmatix

Your discussion regarding possibility of infectious zombie pandemic was more fun.

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## gimp

Keltec are pretty notoriously bad and even go so far as to state themselves that their guns only have a 5000 round expected lifespan, but they make cool and interesting bad guns which are sorta innovative. It's a shame they don't sell the designs to someone slightly better at the making stuff part

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## 300CALMAN



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## Spanners

> Keltec are pretty notoriously bad and even go so far as to state themselves that their guns only have a 5000 round expected lifespan, but they make cool and interesting bad guns which are sorta innovative. It's a shame they don't sell the designs to someone slightly better at the making stuff part


5000 rds is alot of survival  :Have A Nice Day: 
If looks anything like the Carbon 15 that I used to have, getting to 2000 will be a tall order.

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## Nibblet

Anyone ever had a jam on one of those TNW ASR rifles?

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## Savage1

> Anyone ever had a jam on one of those TNW ASR rifles?


Jam as in stoppage, experience in use of the condiment? 

None of the above sorry.

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## Nibblet

> Jam as in stoppage, experience in use of the condiment? 
> 
> None of the above sorry.


HA! 

Dick. 

Experience. 

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## specweapon

Keltec's biggest positive is when you shoot an animal, you can set the keltec on fire and cook with it

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