# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  E cat question

## Kscott

Wondering ... if I don't put down rabbit culling on a farm as a potential use and give the farmer as a referee, will my E cat application be restricted to range, etc use only ?

What has happened to other folks ? I don't hunt, just competition shooting and rabbits in Alexandra a couple of times a year.

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## gimp

Just put "hunting" on there in case you want to

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## nzfubz

From memory mine was in this order. 3gun, Service Rifle, Range work and hunting.

It may have tightened up but they had no issues with that list

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## R93

I would not put hunting as a reason.
If you a  PNZ financial member and compete, just use that as a reason.
Had a bloke in our club just get issued his one. All he used was competition.
Once you have it there are no reason you can't go  hunting with your E cat firearm.

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## JRW87

> I would not put hunting as a reason.
> If you a  PNZ financial member and compete, just use that as a reason.
> Had a bloke in our club just get issued his one. All he used was competition.
> Once you have it there are no reason you can't go  hunting with your E cat firearm.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


I was told different from my AO, the Ecat firearm could only be used for the purposes that were placed on your endorsement, I could be mistaken and cant currently cite a source from my phone at work.

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## Kscott

Yeah I've read that on the interwebs too, hence my question. I've also read on the interweb people shooting sub moa off the shoulder after running up a hill at a target 200m with an air rifle  :Grin:  

But as to real world experiences if anyone has a restriction on their license . . . 

Yup, I'm already a member of PNZ so 3Gun would be the primary use but just thinking incase I wanted to use it on the/a farm in the future.

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## Moutere

Says on the back of the form that you can put forward any 'reason for possession' to be considered.

Can't hurt to include hunting, most people will have already done so and it can only help towards futureproofing it as a legitimate use.

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## R93

Mine just says E. No restrictions.
It was done 15 yrs ago tho.

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## Towely

Its going to depend on your AO opinion of it. Yes, conditions can be placed on your endorsment. I thought that was common knowledge  and the subject has been beaten to death already. I know of one district where the AO doesnt like hunting as a reason and makes life hard for anyone putting that specific reason down. My regions AO is easy going and doesnt mind at all. 

Be broad with your reasons.

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## Kiwi-Hunter

> Says on the back of the form that you can* put forward any 'reason for possession' to be considered.*Can't hurt to include hunting, most people will have already done so and it can only help towards futureproofing it as a legitimate use.


It is a E cat and* needs a legitimate* use so pest destruction is a good idea as to what they issuing one for.
KH

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## gimp

> It is a E cat and* needs a legitimate* use


not in the legislation it doesn't and that's what has to be obeyed when issuing one

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## R93

I guess it depends on your AO.
Our one is actually anti guns from recent discussions and sees no legitimate reason for E cat firearms regarding hunting. I was also told 15 yrs ago it was not a good idea to use hunting. I didn't. 
Hence my post.

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## Kiwi-Hunter

Well I have just asked about this, and it looks like horses for courses, the AO said there needs to be a good reason.
But then your are talking about me :Have A Nice Day: 
So I see his point and pest control was a good reason according to the AO.
Just my experience which don't seem to count for much, I think these things hang more on what type of person you are and back ground.
Not so much as to tick the boxes on the paper, although there are some boxes that need ticked off :Have A Nice Day: 
KH

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## Ryan

Any _lawful purpose_ should be sufficient reason. Service rifle, hunting, collection etc. Thankfully my AOs are great.

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## Kscott

> Well I have just asked about this, and it looks like horses for courses, the AO said there needs to be a good reason.
> But then your are talking about me
> So I see his point and pest control was a good reason according to the AO.
> Just my experience which don't seem to count for much, I think these things hang more on what type of person you are and back ground.
> Not so much as to tick the boxes on the paper, although there are some boxes that need ticked off
> KH


Cheers, thanks.

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## Beavis

No problem at all. Hunting is a perfectly legitimate use. In parliamentary records, it says that MSSA's are used by legitimate hunters and that is a reason to have one. I along with every other E endorsement holder I know, (maybe like 20 or 30) have no restrictions whatsoever and most of them hunt with their MSSA's.

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## cambo

When I applied for my endorsement, I stated every possible legitimate use and added "plus any other legal shooting discipline that may interest me in the future". 
The vettor that came around was impressed with how I covered all bases.  :Have A Nice Day: 

So far as I know there are no conditions/restrictions on my endorsement. At least there is nothing I have been made aware of anyway.

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## Moutere

> Says on the back of the form that you can put forward any 'reason for possession' to be considered.
> 
> Can't hurt to include hunting, most people will have already done so and it can only help towards futureproofing it as a legitimate use.






> It is a E cat and* needs a legitimate* use so pest destruction is a good idea as to what they issuing one for.
> KH


Re read the post, we're pretty much saying the same thing !
Your use of bold type in post 10 isn't really necessary.

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## Trevs

This is what I put on my form when getting my E-cat, pretty much covers anything


*'Pest Control. target shooting, SRA shooting, collecting and such other lawful uses that may from time to time interest me.'* 

Also are restrictions ever policed. During my interview with the AO there is no talk about restriction.



ps Other interest...well that hopefully includes Zombie killing  :Have A Nice Day:   :36 1 11:

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## Moutere

So, does anyone have a restriction or condition of use regarding their endorsement?

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## rogers.270

got mine recently in nelson no problem or restrictions

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## 308

Not here




> So, does anyone have a restriction or condition of use regarding their endorsement?

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## Monsterbishi

> So, does anyone have a restriction or condition of use regarding their endorsement?


On an interesting note, conditions, if any, aren't recorded against a specific endorsed licence holder - it is applied to the rifle when it is added to the register.

One of my AR's has only one specific use listed on its paperwork - "It's my hunting rifle" :-)

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## Trevs

> On an interesting note, conditions, if any, aren't recorded against a specific endorsed licence holder - it is applied to the rifle when it is added to the register.
> 
> One of my AR's has only one specific use listed on its paperwork - "It's my hunting rifle" :-)


Interesting that you say that because when applying for a e-cat firearm conditions are not required

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## Monsterbishi

> Interesting that you say that because when applying for a e-cat firearm conditions are not required


Let me know how you get on, it'll be tough to approve the Pol67X as you're not documenting the 'proper' use which it will be used for.

It's all fine and dandy to hide behind legal semantics - gives you a healthy self-righteous glow but all you end up doing is making a nuisance of yourself to those who would have otherwise happily helped you anyway.

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## Littledog

KScott as others had said, put down as many uses as possible, from 3 gun, Service rifle, collection, target shooting, pest control and hunting etc. I put all those and have no restrictions on my endorsement.
Hunting is a legitimate use of rifles be they A or E category they fall under.

Cheers and goodluck.

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## 10-Ring

> It's all fine and dandy to hide behind legal semantics - gives you a healthy self-righteous glow but all you end up doing is making a nuisance of yourself to those who would have otherwise happily helped you anyway.


Well said.

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## grunzter

My AO was a good bloke, I had written down SR, 3gun and hunting, and he said what else should we write down...
Like anything they are not stupid, and probably can read us a lot better than most, considering they have been policing for a lifetime...

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## Sasquatch

I have an E-cat question so makes sense to use this thread. I was told by a fella at guncity that when they 'buy' new e-cat firearms and bring them in to the country they have to destroy one (usually a cheap Chinese one) because the Govt/Police department have to regulate the number of e-cat firearms in the country??? As in they only want a certain number.

He also when on to say that all the people that applied for their e-cat endorsement after the pistol grip saga don't really have a "real" e-cat, it's only permitted to change over their existing firearms because of the law change. A.K.A if they want to apply for a permit to procure and purchase a new e-cat firearm, they can't...

Please tell me for the love of God, that this is aaabbb-sol-ute bollllucks.

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## gimp

Of course it's absolute shit

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## P38

@Kscott 

You can put down any reason you like on your E Endorsement application.

I always add *"And Any Other Lawful Purpose"*

I've had an E endorsement since inception and have never had any issues.

Others I know have had a few surprise inspections.

Cheers
Pete

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## Sasquatch

Thought so.

But still he sounded so sure that he believed the malarkey that was coming out of his mouth

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## nzfubz

> I have an E-cat question so makes sense to use this thread. I was told by a fella at guncity that when they 'buy' new e-cat firearms and bring them in to the country they have to destroy one (usually a cheap Chinese one) because the Govt/Police department have to regulate the number of e-cat firearms in the country??? As in they only want a certain number.
> 
> He also when on to say that all the people that applied for their e-cat endorsement after the pistol grip saga don't really have a "real" e-cat, it's only permitted to change over their existing firearms because of the law change. A.K.A if they want to apply for a permit to procure and purchase a new e-cat firearm, they can't...
> 
> Please tell me for the love of God, that this is aaabbb-sol-ute bollllucks.


Did you ask when his new line of flying pigs is due in? 

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## Sasquatch

I struggled to hold my composure to be honest, ended up laughing at him lol

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## steven

One of the actions that the Police might try to insist on but there is no legal standing for it I can see.  ie Just read the law and regs, be great if you can spot such a clause for me as I cannot find it.

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## Yukon

> I struggled to hold my composure to be honest, ended up laughing at him lol


What were you doing in GunCity to start with, its owned by a crim.

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## steven

there is what is known as libel and slander, better not to go there.

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## small_caliber

> What were you doing in GunCity to start with, its owned by a crim.


Wow the lengths people go to to try and get prosecuted for slander.............so which owner of Guncity is a crim?

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## Kscott

To put it into perspective before people get too upset, a 'criminal' can be used to describe someone who has a criminal conviction by the courts, which David Tipple openly acknowledges he has. Ergo, the statement, a 'crim', is factually correct and not slanderous nor libelous  :Wink:

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## JRW87

> To put it into perspective before people get too upset, a 'criminal' can be used to describe someone who has a criminal conviction by the courts, which David Tipple openly acknowledges he has. Ergo, the statement, a 'crim', is factually correct and not slanderous nor libelous


Hell, my father was one of the cops who came to see him after he threatened some skinheads with a shotgun after they broke the aerial off his car. 

To bring a successful defamation prosecution you would have to prove what is being said is a false statement AND it is detrimental to peoples view of your character which I dont think is occuring in this instance.

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## small_caliber

> To put it into perspective before people get too upset, a 'criminal' can be used to describe someone who has a criminal conviction by the courts, which David Tipple openly acknowledges he has. Ergo, the statement, a 'crim', is factually correct and not slanderous nor libelous





> Hell, my father was one of the cops who came to see him after he threatened some skinheads with a shotgun after they broke the aerial off his car. 
> 
> To bring a successful defamation prosecution you would have to prove what is being said is a false statement AND it is detrimental to peoples view of your character which I dont think is occuring in this instance.


As I said..........which owner of Gun City is a Crim?? as there are several shareholders/owners of Gun City and I bet there are a few shareholders that do not have criminal convictions...........so therefore saying the owner of Gun City is a Crim without saying which owner does leave him and the forum open to a successful defamation action.

Just because you think he's referring to David Tipple doesn't mean that he is, someone else may think he's referring to another owner who isn't a crim.

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## dogmatix

Of course he's referring to Tipple, who else has spent time in a US prison?

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## Kscott

Yeah it won't fly, don't worry  :Wink:

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## small_caliber

> Of course he's referring to Tipple, who else has spent time in a US prison?


As I said there is more than "one" owner of Guncity and instead of leaving it blank as to who he's referring to he should name them.......otherwise it is a possibility that a non criminal owner could pursue slander and defamation.

At the end of the day it won't affect my pocket if they did, but under current slander/defamation law it could affect this forum.

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## dogmatix

> As I said there is more than "one" owner of Guncity and instead of leaving it blank as to who he's referring to he should name them.......otherwise it is a possibility that a non criminal owner could pursue slander and defamation.
> 
> At the end of the day it won't affect my pocket if they did, but under current slander/defamation law it could affect this forum.


What are you, a GC staff member?

There are far worse website forum discussions on other hunting and fishing sites regarding that company. One where even GC replied.
So why don't you go and read those for fun.

Awesome fishing and hunting New Zealand. Fishing and Hunting forum. www.fishnhunt.co.nz

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## small_caliber

> What are you, a GC staff member?
> 
> There are far worse website forum discussions on other hunting and fishing sites regarding that company. One where even GC replied.
> So why don't you go and read those for fun.
> 
> Awesome fishing and hunting New Zealand. Fishing and Hunting forum. www.fishnhunt.co.nz


Me an employee of Gun City........now that is funny, I earn more in an hour than they would pay for a weeks work.

Actually I don't even live in a town/city that has a Gun City shop in it..........and if you were able to understand what I posted you would realise I'm not disputing what is being posted about David Tipple.........all I'm saying is that David Tipple isn't the sole owner of Gun City, and not all owners of Gun City are criminals.

Or is everyone who is defending what Yukon posted saying ALL owners of Gun City ARE criminals??  I might be misinterpreting what everyone is saying!!!

Looking at what Yukon implies you shouldn't enter a business or company that  has a crim as an owner he's probably a hypocrite without even knowing it, because I'm sure David Tipple isn't the only crim that has a share in a business or company and I bet Yukon has walked into or dealt with another business that does have a crim as a owner........without even knowing it.

Dogmatix, just out of interest I went and had a look at that link you posted........wow 2006 and still being referred to. Have to say that Gun City isn't the only shop who won't refund on dvd's etc, the warehouse won't either.
There seems to be a lot of people who bitch about Gun City and it's prices.........they are still in business and I do know they discount items from their advertised prices.......bought some ammo their once cheaper then all other shops who had it would sell it for.........made the offer and knock me over with a feather the offer was accepted........everything I've read about Gun City on this forum says they wouldn't.

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## Moutere

> Or is everyone who is defending what Yukon posted saying ALL owners of Gun City ARE criminals??  I might be misinterpreting what everyone is saying!!!


Nah, but you are starting to make a mountain out of a mole hill though.

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## Kscott

> I might be misinterpreting what everyone is saying!!!


Actually yes you are. You're extrapolating a statement that is factually accurate when dealing with the generalisation it was presented in.

The majority shareholder of a business can sometimes be referred to as "the owner" even though there are multiple shareholders.

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## 199p

Wtf guys

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## jim160

I guess I will say what people are thinking. 
Yes many may not like GC like me but if they are the cheapest I will deal with them. 

They honoured a warranty on an item of theirs which I didn't buy. They didn'thave to but they did . 

We all may bitch and moan about them and yes David tipple is a felon, but there are far worse people out there.  He has good business sense and if there was an issue about him been near guns, then they wouldn't be dealers would they. 

I think enough has been said about the Tipples and gun city so let's end it there and move on. 

They have shit we want and I will be buying a few rifles from them in the next few months. 

And I bet deep down, people will buy from them just cause they are cheap.  Yet they won't admit it in this forum. Will they.....

Also how did we get here from an e cat question anyway.

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## gimp

I don't buy from them because they are not cheap


We ended up here because a mis-informed (or bullshitting) Gun City salesperson was spreading misinformation about E endorsements.

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## jim160

> I don't buy from them because they are not cheap
> 
> 
> We ended up here because a mis-informed (or bullshitting) Gun City salesperson was spreading misinformation about E endorsements.


Some of the stuff is cheap. But like all places, they have expensive stuff to. I only buy stuff on sale to be honest.

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## rs200nz

We have the same AO. He's great and got me to do the same thing.  Now everything is on my application form.

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## MinuteMan

A good idea might be to put down "all lawful sufficient and proper purposes congruent with s45 of the Arms Act 1983." 

I put that down and it wasn't questioned and no condition as to use was otherwise put on the endorsement

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## anderset20

Found out mines been issued  :Have A Nice Day:  just waiting for card to arrive 


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## grunzter

Mines on the way to the moon I guess...  :Oh Noes:

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## anderset20

Ah mine turned up. Sent them new passport photos but they chose to use the photo that makes me look about 12 


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## dogmatix

> Mines on the way to the moon I guess...


Probably with my CZ858 and 6 extra mags import permit.

 :Pissed Off:

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## 2gnscib

What a messed up thread. How about we ignore the slander towards certain gun stores and discuss the topic at hand? E cats.

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## grunzter

it was a v*E*ry good day for me finally...  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Savage1

I handed in the form for my E on Thursday, referees were interviewed on Friday, I was booked in to be interviewed on Monday evening but an urgent job came in so he popped around yesterday morning and the application is off to PNHQ today, hopefully. Our vetter up here is great.

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## steven

I must admit reading what ppl post here the police dont seem particularly anti-getting your E.

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## dogmatix

> I must admit reading what ppl post here the police dont seem particularly anti-getting your E.


Its really a win-win for them, namely more firearms users having better security and knowing who owns what out there, unlike the unknown numbers (to them) of A-Cat ARs in flimsy safes and wall mounts.

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## Ryan

> I handed in the form for my E on Thursday, referees were interviewed on Friday, I was booked in to be interviewed on Monday evening but an urgent job came in so he popped around yesterday morning and the application is off to PNHQ today, hopefully. Our vetter up here is great.


Is it the same older ginger gentleman, quite burly?

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## Tommy

> Its really a win-win for them, namely more firearms users having better security and knowing who owns what out there, unlike the unknown numbers (to them) of A-Cat ARs in flimsy safes and wall mounts.


That's a very good point

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## res

> That's a very good point


Same as why they love trademe selling guns, leaves a paper trail

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## Savage1

> Is it the same older ginger gentleman, quite burly?


Nah skinny older guy, ex cop, great fella.

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## Savage1

> Same as why they love trademe selling guns, leaves a paper trail


Those mail order forms don't get copied or kept by Police, well not up here anyway.

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## res

> Those mail order forms don't get copied or kept by Police, well not up here anyway.


I have seen mine get photocopied, so assumed it was standard practice 

But really I was meaning an online trail. 

Personally I think it's a good thing, I know some others will strongly disagree with that

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