# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Firearms security

## Kapitishooter

Just wondering what kinds of type of storage you guys have? as I am going for licence soon  :Thumbsup:

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## Maca49

For my A I have an old Roll front cabinet that locks at the bottom, hah it is ex the IRD! Great access

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## Rushy

I have both a storage rack and safe set up.  depending upon how many rifles you intend to have, a rack is a good and relatively inexpensive way to start out.

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## ebf

safe(s) - the REAL kind, rather be safe than sorry  :Grin: 

i'd go for the best security you can get :
1) for my family's sake
2) for peace of mind
3) to avoid the crap that goes with stolen firearms

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## Gibo

Yip I got a 5 gun safe for 280 delivered. Tried the modified cupboard and the AO laughed at me and told me to sort it.
Funny thing was the same AO approved my mates old pantry with a shit arse lock on it  :Wtfsmilie:  maybe rural is not as strict (hardly f*&king think so)
We recently demo'ed my mates house and i gave his old pantry door a sneaky punch and was straight in within 1 minute.......

moral: spend some time or money preferrably both on something SAFE.

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## Thirdguy

5 Gun Safe, Already getting the feeling i will need a second/ bigger safe......

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## Kscott

> Just wondering what kinds of type of storage you guys have? as I am going for licence soon


As patronising as this may sound, get a big safe and bolt the mf to something solid, and get good security systems in place, because you don't want wankers to gain easy access to it. Because if they do, unless you're taking serious reasonable steps, it'll be your fault.

If you're thinking about storing your guns with the bolts still inside, don't bother locking the safe.

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## striker

Ive asked this question at the sika show to the arms officers there, how do you provide security in a rental flat, that wont allow you to bolt a safe in etc or mount a rack?

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## Gibo

> Ive asked this question at the sika show to the arms officers there, how do you provide security in a rental flat, that wont allow you to bolt a safe in etc or mount a rack?


Mates house

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## rookiesniper

Kilwell delux 10 gun ecat....only have a .308 bush pig in it hahah(for now),don't be cheap on security i reckon:-)

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## ebf

> Ive asked this question at the sika show to the arms officers there, how do you provide security in a rental flat, that wont allow you to bolt a safe in etc or mount a rack?


Simple, get a 24 gun safe that is so heavy no sane person would try to shift it  :Grin: 

Has the added benefit of having loads of space for "toys"

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## striker

asking this for a mate
already stored at a secure location, told must have security onsite to comply, cant do bolt holes, tex screws etc if you do you lose your bond and possible blacklist as renter, does as ebf says make the fucker so heavy to move count? vs other non descript ways of securing?

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## Kscott

> Ive asked this question at the sika show to the arms officers there, how do you provide security in a rental flat, that wont allow you to bolt a safe in etc or mount a rack?


Had it in 2 x previous flats, both had safe installed and bolted to wall and floor in a wardrobe. Removed bolts, added plaster and repainted said back wall when moving out, landlord none the wiser  :Thumbsup:  but your mileage may vary.

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## veitnamcam

> If you're thinking about storing your guns with the bolts still inside, don't bother locking the safe.



???
Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## steven

> Just wondering what kinds of type of storage you guys have? as I am going for licence soon


Depends what you expect to do in the future.  An 5 gun A cat safe is $350 ish and an E is $600~$1100  If you think you will be service rifle shooting then an E might suit you best straight off.    I have an 5 A and Ive filled it so I need another. Probably its going to be an E because my space is limited and I might want an AR15/ak47 at some point.

If you think you might want an E talk to your AO about the engineering requirements for it....Im going to post a Q here in a mo on E safes.

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## steven

> Simple, get a 24 gun safe that is so heavy no sane person would try to shift it 
> 
> Has the added benefit of having loads of space for "toys"


but the AO wont pass it unless its bolted down?  My AO looked at the bolts and asked how big they were....I had 3 in floor and 2 in wall 8M...

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## Spook

> but the AO wont pass it unless its bolted down?  My AO looked at the bolts and asked how big they were....I had 3 in floor and 2 in wall 8M...


I have an old safe [circa 1875] that weighs in excess of 800 kgs, sides and top are sand filled so couldn't drill...easy fix was to cut bolt heads and glue in place.

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## Gibo

> I have an old safe [circa 1875] that weighs in excess of 800 kgs, sides and top are sand filled so couldn't drill...easy fix was to cut bolt heads and glue in place.


That is crafty  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Kapitishooter

Cheers guys, sorted out some security today. I Have a 'school locker' with two types locks on and secured to studs, a fireproof very thick pistol safe for ammo and a ammo tin for bolts etc. All in separate locations. How do you reckon it will fear?

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## veitnamcam

Should be fine.

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## Gunzrrr

> As patronising as this may sound, get a big safe and bolt the mf to something solid, and get good security systems in place, because you don't want wankers to gain easy access to it. Because if they do, unless you're taking serious reasonable steps, it'll be your fault.
> If you're thinking about storing your guns with the bolts still inside, don't bother locking the safe.


I agree with KScott - don't skimp on safety and security ... if you are young fella then I can understand starting with a cheap rack to get you going but please don't think that is safe and secure - its just legal that's all.  I have a 10 gun which is bolted to everything I could find and one of those hotel type safes with all the bolts and I use a steel filing cabinet to store all my ammo in. I'm safe, the kids are safe, visitors are safe, everything is alarmed and a smelly old Rottweiler in the yard.

The best thing about a full gun safe is the Mrs can't see what's inside them. Mine is now overflowing and she has no idea.

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## sako75

I know someone who dismantles bank vaults. Only problem is you will need a fork hoist to lift the panels  :Sad:

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## Nasty Factory Trigger

Ex ATM safe...   13mm plus 2 dials, and fairly cheap comparatively...  Only issue with that is they are long, as opposed to high..  still, 13mm is 13mm!!

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## 308

Another trick for the renters is a mount plate at the bottom - Thick steel plate same size as safe floor, sits underneath. Has 4+ welded lugs/12+mm steel rods that stick up from it through corresponding holes in safe floor.

A dozen or so holes in said plate mean you can tek screw the snot out of the plate to the floor and then place the safe on top of it. steel clips sideways through the lugs sticking up through the floor and a few holes drilled for tekscrews into the sides through the studs and you have a safe that feels solid enough for A-cat yet can be moved with a few patchable holes left in the floor.


The other thing is lock up all of your grinders and hacksaws too..

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## Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

> Yip I got a 5 gun safe for 280 delivered. Tried the modified cupboard and the AO laughed at me and told me to sort it.
> Funny thing was the same AO approved my mates old pantry with a shit arse lock on it  maybe rural is not as strict (hardly f*&king think so)
> We recently demo'ed my mates house and i gave his old pantry door a sneaky punch and was straight in within 1 minute.......
> 
> moral: spend some time or money preferrably both on something SAFE.


Maybe the AO was smok'n a different kind 'O' Weed by the time he got to you?

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## Monsterbishi

> If you're thinking about storing your guns with the bolts still inside, don't bother locking the safe.


So do you offer a service for pump and lever gun owners where it's damn near impossible to pull the bolt without reducing the rifle to a pile of parts?

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## oneipete

So how many of you guys go away for a week or more with all your family and have a garage full of grinders/gas cutters etc ? I know I do and it worries me at times.  So I keep my bows and gun ammo in the gunsafe in our bedroom. The rifles however are stored in a hidden safe,on the principle if they cant find it they can cut it open .I don't even bother showing the arms officer the hidden one.

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## Kscott

> So do you offer a service for pump and lever gun owners where it's damn near impossible to pull the bolt without reducing the rifle to a pile of parts?


Thanks for missing the point. If you CAN do it, you SHOULD do it. 

If you CAN take the bolt out and store it securely somewhere else you SHOULD, because if a thief does break in, hopefully all you're handing them is a big stick. Unless it's a burglar who has spent more time scoping out your place than the GSCB has - after all, doesn't the security discussed here relate to an opportunistic burglar ? Rifles though storing the magazines securely elsewhere - ever tried to fire a semi rifle with no mag ? Shotguns are clearly a different matter unless you leave in a trigger lock or mag lock, but the point is if you want to hand over to a burglar a full, complete firearm that they just pick up and use then go for it - I don't, because I think it's a stupid option.

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## geezejonesy

> Simple, get a 24 gun safe that is so heavy no sane person would try to shift it 
> 
> Has the added benefit of having loads of space for "toys"


Just had one installed into my new Mai Mai  four blokes had to lift it in place  then we had to fit the door onto its hinges .

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## crnkin

> Thanks for missing the point. If you CAN do it, you SHOULD do it. 
> 
> If you CAN take the bolt out and store it securely somewhere else you SHOULD, because if a thief does break in, hopefully all you're handing them is a big stick. Unless it's a burglar who has spent more time scoping out your place than the GSCB has - after all, doesn't the security discussed here relate to an opportunistic burglar ? Rifles though storing the magazines securely elsewhere - ever tried to fire a semi rifle with no mag ? Shotguns are clearly a different matter unless you leave in a trigger lock or mag lock, but the point is if you want to hand over to a burglar a full, complete firearm that they just pick up and use then go for it - I don't, because I think it's a stupid option.


It has always confused me when I hear this from people,

How, if your A cat storage is designed to stop the opportunistic burglar, does storing your bolt separately stop them from finding a rifle with no bolt (after breaking in to a safe no less), and then finding your bolt? Burglars aren't as stupid as 'hunters', in general. I know where most people store their bolts (not locked).

that would mean: 

a- If they managed to get into the safe they probably are not an opportunistic burglar so therefore your damned either way.
b- If they are stealing a rifle they don't have a licence, but a bolt requires no licence to buy? Sure, they cost a lot, but they are crims, they can afford it or just nick one.
c- you join the 50% (made up number) of people that have lost their bolt, because they store it separately, usually unlocked, and forgot where they put it either after a long hunt, or a house move.

I think its a ridiculous idea personally. 

Also, I think burglars look for locks and safes before going through anything else, as it instantly says "steal me if you can!", so a hidden safe should be safer than a locked cupboard in general.

Bunnies next year?

Chris

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## Savage1

> It has always confused me when I hear this from people,
> 
> How, if your A cat storage is designed to stop the opportunistic burglar, does storing your bolt separately stop them from finding a rifle with no bolt (after breaking in to a safe no less), and then finding your bolt? Burglars aren't as stupid as 'hunters', in general. I know where most people store their bolts (not locked).
> 
> that would mean: 
> 
> a- If they managed to get into the safe they probably are not an opportunistic burglar so therefore your damned either way.
> b- If they are stealing a rifle they don't have a licence, but a bolt requires no licence to buy? Sure, they cost a lot, but they are crims, they can afford it or just nick one.
> c- you join the 50% (made up number) of people that have lost their bolt, because they store it separately, usually unlocked, and forgot where they put it either after a long hunt, or a house move.
> ...


I think that's a pretty irresponsible way of looking at it.

Not bothering to store the bolts separately because they might find them anyway?  :Wtfsmilie: 

A- maybe they found your key hidden in a stupid place.
B- The order and sale of rifle bolts would be rather easy to track.
C- Sacrificing firearm security because you might be stupid and lose your bolt is not a valid reason, take more care.

D- It's not just burglars you're trying to keep away from your firearms, many children have killed themselves or siblings because they've gotten a hold of firearms.

As for burglars not being as stupid as most hunters, I'm guessing you haven't met many/any then.

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## Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

> Thanks for missing the point. If you CAN do it, you SHOULD do it. 
> 
> If you CAN take the bolt out and store it securely somewhere else you SHOULD, because if a thief does break in, hopefully all you're handing them is a big stick. Unless it's a burglar who has spent more time scoping out your place than the GSCB has - after all, doesn't the security discussed here relate to an opportunistic burglar ? Rifles though storing the magazines securely elsewhere - ever tried to fire a semi rifle with no mag ? Shotguns are clearly a different matter unless you leave in a trigger lock or mag lock, but the point is if you want to hand over to a burglar a full, complete firearm that they just pick up and use then go for it - I don't, because I think it's a stupid option.


Hopefully you're not handing 'them' a firearm at all (either complete with magazine, bolt or whatever) I mean, that's the very reason why we go out and buy our gun safes in the first place right? :Wink:

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## Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

> Just wondering what kinds of type of storage you guys have? as I am going for licence soon


I was recently "Vetted" for my ten year 'A' Cat licence renewal. One of the forms that was sent to me from the "Southern District Firearms Licencing Manager/Officer" contained the following on "Firearms Security" Some of which you my be surprised!


*Quote:*

If you are: (A) Applying for a firearms licence for the first time, (B) renewing your firearms licence or (C) a current firearms licence holder, Police require that you have installed in your premises suitable firearms security whether or not you possess any firearms.


*Security for firearms- A 'CAT"*

By law the applicant *must provide a minimum level of security* in their place of residence, they must be able to secure the firearm legally if they had to, *whether they own firearms or not, or chose to store their firearms elsewhere.* If the applicant owns firearms but choses to store them elsewhere with another current licence holder for example, that is allowed however they still *must* have the *required security in their own homes.*


*Racks:*

Commercial racks must be able to withstand a weight test within reason. If the rack is lose or moves when tested then reinforcement to the rack is required.
The lock needs to be sturdy and substantial enough to withstand forcible removal, within reason.


*A rack is a fixed object which is immobilized:*

A commercial rack bolted to the wall

A rafter in a ceiling space is considered to be a rack as it is immobilized: A heavy duty  chain and combination or key padlock wrapped around a rafter is an agreed minimum level of legal security.

A hot water cylinder is considered to be a rack as it is immobilized: Again a heavy duty chain and padlock wrapped around the hot water cylinder is an agreed minimum level of agreed security.

The same principal mentioned above would apply to a house pile.

Those above mentioned options are usually adopted by licence holders who have one or two firearms only.

Consideration needs to be given to the number of firearms and if the storage arrangement is sufficient and secure enough for the numbers held.

If firearms are stored within wardrobes or cupboards it is recommended that the firearms are the only items to be stored within, however if the space is duel purpose, a lock on a wardrobe or cupboard door is not sufficient on its own, the firearm should be additionally secured in either a cabinet or a rack within the area, with either option being bolted to the inside of the wardrobe or the cupboard.

All gun cabinets must be immobilized, either bolted to the floor or wall.

Security storage for firearms should be in a discreet area of the premises.

Ammunition, bolts, magazines and safety parts should be locked away separately from the firearms in another discreet location. One example being a tool box and pad lock, stored out of sight.

Some commercial gun cabinets have separate locked storage for the ammo and parts within the main gun cabinet, this is acceptable. Example there is a separate compartment within the cabinet requiring another key for access.

*Endorsement holders must have the security and firearms where they reside.*

*Unquote:*

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## safeman

Hi Everyone - I'm Jason , New to forums ect - but wanted to let people know about E - cat Gun Safes I will have for sale before Christmas. These are NZ made - not imported. Just having the certification paperwork done on them. These are to standard and certified.
External measure : 1500 h x 750 w x 450 d
These are very big and estimated 30 - 40 firearms held.
I am a manufacturer.
Will keep you all informed.
Thanks for your time.

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## Gibo

> Hi Everyone - I'm Jason , New to forums ect - but wanted to let people know about E - cat Gun Safes I will have for sale before Christmas. These are NZ made - not imported. Just having the certification paperwork done on them. These are to standard and certified.
> External measure : 1500 h x 750 w x 450 d
> These are very big and estimated 30 - 40 firearms held.
> I am a manufacturer.
> Will keep you all informed.
> Thanks for your time.


Welcome Safeman. What will be the cost of that spec?

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## Rushy

Welcome to the forum safeman.  there will be significant demand for E cat safes coming up.

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## Grue

While renting, instead of bolting to the wall, try laying the cabinet flat on the floor in the corner of a room and tex screwed it into the floor through the carpet.

Comes time to move... after a quick brush of the carpet, can't see any holes. Done. 

Most NZ rental houses it's such a mission to find a wall strong enough to take a safe anyway - but usually a nice strong hardwood floor under that carpet!

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## Rushy

Practical and clever Grue.

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## striker

thats exactly what one of the cops at the sika show said to me

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## Kscott

I've never kept my bolt or magazines in the lock up inside the safe - seemed a bit illogical to me  :Grin:  - so mine have been locked up separately. But then I've never understood why some people would 'hide' a key to their safe anywhere on the property in the 1st place. 'Not sure if Mr Low IQ Burglar would want to go through the challenge of finding a new bolt for a firearm, so it looks like I'll agree to disagree.

My personal experiences in gunshops have been that when I've handed a firearm over for whatever reason I've needed to show my FAL to get my hands on it again.

Bunnies, yup hope to in 2014, but I'd probably do the same as this year - I'll wander the farm having a zen moment listening to music and blowing the buggars into small pieces while you guys can stay up all night  :Grin: 




> It has always confused me when I hear this from people,
> 
> How, if your A cat storage is designed to stop the opportunistic burglar, does storing your bolt separately stop them from finding a rifle with no bolt (after breaking in to a safe no less), and then finding your bolt? Burglars aren't as stupid as 'hunters', in general. I know where most people store their bolts (not locked).
> 
> that would mean: 
> 
> a- If they managed to get into the safe they probably are not an opportunistic burglar so therefore your damned either way.
> b- If they are stealing a rifle they don't have a licence, but a bolt requires no licence to buy? Sure, they cost a lot, but they are crims, they can afford it or just nick one.
> c- you join the 50% (made up number) of people that have lost their bolt, because they store it separately, usually unlocked, and forgot where they put it either after a long hunt, or a house move.
> ...

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## Ahuroa SC

Thieves bag gun haul - crime - national | Stuff.co.nz

Things like this which make me want to upgrade security pronto. I'm seriously considering buying the most secure safe I can find, the one I have now aint cutting the mustard in my mind. If people can break into stores and steal them, there's nothing stopping them hitting residential areas with the right knowledge. 

So far I store all my firearms in a decent enough safe tek screwed into the floor and wall with bolts stored separately in a lock box from the firearms. My ammunition is also stored in a lock up separate from both bolts and firearms. I don't think a 'decent enough' safe is going to do the trick. It's one of those guncity ones (the place that was burgled recently) with a stupid lock box inside it. I'm thinking of going with a heavy grade 'E cat' one in the shed lying down with as many giant tek screws as possible.

I also believe the best way to stop getting burgled is not telling ANYONE you have firearms or even a licence unless they are family or a mate WITH a licence. Bloody hell sound a bit paranoid here, I'd just hate to get burgled.

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## Ryan

> I also believe the best way to stop getting burgled is not telling ANYONE you have firearms or even a licence unless they are family or a mate WITH a licence. Bloody hell sound a bit paranoid here, I'd just hate to get burgled.


Agree, the less people that know the better.

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## Savage1

Just shows how piss poor some stores security is, pisses me off that a store with pistols had them so easily accessible. I bet no B-Cat holder would have such poor security that would only take 2 minutes to overcome.

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## Ahuroa SC

> Just shows how piss poor some stores security is, pisses me off that a store with pistols had them so easily accessible. I bet no B-Cat holder would have such poor security that would only take 2 minutes to overcome.


Astounding it is, I think it's about time these stores start taking a look at their own security. Absolutely crazy. They think some chicken wire and some bars are gonna stop the most brazen determined criminals we have in NZ? Some of them are built like silverback gorillas.

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## Rushy

That is a shocker.  Two minutes for 33 firearms.  Shocker really.

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## Kapitishooter

Cheers guys, the day has come the vetter will be here soon will keep you updated on how it goes.

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## kiwi39

How'd you go with the red setter @Kapitishooter ?


Tim

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## Doug

I could well be on my way over there, one little note of concern is that storing bolts separately from the rifle in the instance of bolts that cock on opening means that the firing pin spring is stressed all the time.?? The second note of concern is that by leaving here, I am hoping to leave the high rate of crime behind but could it be that I will leaving the frying pan for the fire? Help me out here guys.

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## veitnamcam

Its pretty safe here on the whole.
Our police don't even carry firearms generally.
Yes we have crime but so does the Vatican.

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## Rushy

> Yes we have crime but so does the Vatican.


The watchful eye of the NZHS forum is upon you VC. Vatican is bordering on the religious so please don't Rome into that discussion. We counsel you not to do thatigen. Ha ha ha ha

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## kiwi39

> The watchful eye of the NZHS forum is upon you VC. Vatican is bordering on the religious so please don't Rome into that discussion. We counsel you not to do thatigen. Ha ha ha ha


Which is in and of itself a thinly veiled religious comment Herr @Rushy !!

Very tongue in cheek for a sunday morning




Tim

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## Doug

[QUOTE=Doug; one little note of concern is that storing bolts separately from the rifle in the instance of bolts that cock on opening means that the firing pin spring is stressed all the time.?? 
Still have not been answered on this one, though scouting around it does appear as though storing bolts separately is not a lawful requirement.

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## Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

> one little note of concern is that storing bolts separately from the rifle in the instance of bolts that cock on opening means that the firing pin spring is stressed all the time.??


"THAT" and the fact that I'm one of these people who would travel 3 or 4 hundred miles to get to my hunting ground only to find I've left the bolt behind, and especially when I've got a lever action rifle, semi auto rifle and pump action shotgun right next to my bolt action rifle in the same safe, removing the bolt is kinda "Counter Productive"!  (you'll end up being a victim of your own crime prevention with that mentality!)

I mean, if anyone's gonna come into my home, holding a knife to my, or my wife's throat, demanding that I open the safe and give him my rifle... I mean, do ya think I'm gonna hold out on the bolt! And if he's good enough to break into my 'E' CAT safe (which is 6mm thick steel) whilst I'm away at work or on holiday, and get my rifle, do you think he's gonna be unable to break into my small lock-up within that safe (which is approx. 1-2mm thick) and grab the bolt!

All this removing the bolt "Bull S@#T"!.. Our cars are designed to bolt together and get un-bolted! Do we sit in our garage at the end of the day and pull our cars to pieces and hide the bits in strategic locations all over the property, least someone comes and steels it? People do, in fact, I've been guilty of doing simillar myself and I can tell you 'first hand' the utter "GREIF" it causes when you can't find that all important part in time to make that Dr. appointment the following morning, or you've forgotten where you've put this, that and the other! :Pissed Off: 

Do what the hell you want people, you are responsible for your own gun security, but my advise is... Buy yourself the best security you reasonably can and just leave that damn bolt in the rifle where it belongs! (Remember, he who sets a trap, will "*himself*" fall in it!)

Nice comment Doug, however people over here wouldn't know what "Lock-Time" is, they're only worried about "Lock-Up-Time!" Welcome to New Zealand! :Thumbsup:

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## veitnamcam

You can decock your bolt out of the rifle easy enough.

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## Kapitishooter

> How'd you go with the red setter @Kapitishooter ?
> 
> 
> Tim



Good she was great, had no complaints and the security was fine  :Thumbsup:  
Even found out the safe where I will store bolts and ammo is at a B cat level.

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## kiwi39

Good news @kapitihunter not long now and you'll be a member of the club  :Have A Nice Day: 

Best you start preparing your bank account now for a lifetime of abuse  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Kscott

> Best you start preparing your bank account now for a lifetime of abuse


lol ain't THAT the truth !  :Grin:

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## steven

I have 2 safes, one for rifles (so far) and one for bolts and ammo (so far), really basic safes are not a huge expense. E cat one os going to hurt abit, both pocket and carrying the bugger in.

regards

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## Kscott

> Its pretty safe here on the whole.
> Our police don't even carry firearms generally.
> Yes we have crime but so does the Vatican.


Pretty much :-)

I'm in the US at the moment (Florida) and when asked the moment dangerous thing we had in NZ, all I could come up with was a very annoyed wild pig, and rabbits lol !

Fellow shooter from SA had a 357 on his right hip when driving so he could draw with his left hand. All I could do was buy him a beer.

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