# Hunting > Hunting >  Thermalling deer

## Pointer

I've bumped into half a dozen unrelated people in the last fortnight who are into it...


So, how long until someone gets shot doing it?

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## stretch

It's a no-no for Joe Bloggs on DOC land for that reason, although I imagine contracted cullers would have special permission to use them.

If you're doing it on private land, then other hunters shouldn't be an issue. (Yeah, right.)

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## Pointer

The first guy I bumped into using it was smack bang in the middle of very busy public land...

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## stretch

> The first guy I bumped into using it was smack bang in the middle of very busy public land...


I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's unaware of the recent changes to the conditions on DOC hunting permits.

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## MDub

I took a rich Canadian guy out hunting and he had a thermal camera, it was pretty easy to identify the animals so I don't think you would mistake a person for a deer that easily. 
It was cool seeing all the possums in the trees.

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## ariki

Maybe using a thermal scope, but using a thermal to spot um all good. Still the usual indentification rules apply
if the user is being responsible.

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## Timmay

All I see is jealous poor people that can't afford thermal hunting gear.

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## HILLBILLYHUNTERS

> All I see is jealous poor people that can't afford thermal hunting gear.


ha ha ha yip and i'm one of the poor ones , but i would have one in a blink if i could .

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## northdude

> I took a rich Canadian guy out hunting and he had a thermal camera, it was pretty easy to identify the animals so I don't think you would mistake a person for a deer that easily. 
> It was cool seeing all the possums in the trees.


Its pretty easy to Id a human in broad day light as well but they still get shot in my opinion and that's all it is its just being lazy

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## Markgibsonr25

It's no different to using a dog its is just another tool,get over it

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## northdude

I am you don't need to loose any sleep over it  :Have A Nice Day:

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## veitnamcam

The last deer I "thermalled"  I spotted at around 900y in regenerating native bush in a spot impenetrable to the naked eye.
an hour or two later he walked out onto a clearing in plain veiw but no shot was taken and he was watched with the binos,the next day it was again spotted with the xray vision and clearings ranged and wait for it to walk out into veiw.
All in full daylight with hours of watching involved threw the binos.

I dont really see how it could increase my chances of shooting someone.

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## silentscope

just cus they can see the deer doesent mean they can/should shoot it.

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## Pointer

> All I see is jealous poor people that can't afford thermal hunting gear.


Where's yours smart-ass?   :Grin: o

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## GravelBen

> I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's unaware of the recent changes to the conditions on DOC hunting permits.


Recent? Pretty sure the permit conditions have said "no hunting during the hours of darkness" for at least the last decade or so.

Or are you talking about using thermal gear in daylight?

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## Kooza

In all honesty, Only a matter of time

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## Kiwi Greg

> Recent? Pretty sure the permit conditions have said "no hunting during the hours of darkness" for at least the last decade or so.



Or more even....

Interesting to know what the official "hours of darkness" are..

Maybe half an hour before sunrise & half an hour after sunset ????

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## veitnamcam

> Or more even....
> 
> Interesting to know what the official "hours of darkness" are..
> 
> Maybe half an hour before sunrise & half an hour after sunset ????


Which would make the best hunting times illegal in the south in summer.

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## stretch

> Recent? Pretty sure the permit conditions have said "no hunting during the hours of darkness" for at least the last decade or so.
> 
> Or are you talking about using thermal gear in daylight?


Glad you edited your post, because I was referring to the recent (last 12 months) addition:

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## stretch

> Interesting to know what the official "hours of darkness" are..
> 
> Maybe half an hour before sunrise & half an hour after sunset ????


That's the definition of daylight, not darkness, so darkness would be from half hour after sunset until half hour before sunrise. Same thing, worded differently.

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## veitnamcam

> Glad you edited your post, because I was referring to the recent (last 12 months) addition:
> 
> Attachment 50731


So still no change really.

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## PerazziSC3

whats ya point  @stretch ? Thermal is used extensively during the day, no issue at all using it on DOC land.

Its illegal to hunt doc land at night thermal or no thermal

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## veitnamcam

> That's the definition of daylight, not darkness, so darkness would be from half hour after sunset until half hour before sunrise. Same thing, worded differently.


You can get 2 hours of twilight easy in the south in summer so I think it is one of those just use your commonsense dark is dark rules or plenty of hunters would be getting charged for hunting dusk and dawn.

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## kidmac42

Up until late last year, I was knocking round with a guy who was getting into rabbit pest control. He bought a xd50 thermal scope. Started out on his ar15, then onto the 22mag.
It was a bit of an arse to sight in, but a very effective tool.
He started using it on deer in doc land at night which was when we parted company.
Personally, I think if you need one for deer, you are defeating the whole ethos of hunting wild game,  and are probably not much of a hunter.
But that's just my thoughts

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## Timmay

> Where's yours smart-ass?  o


To be fair my recent LR + bino purchase cost more  :Psmiley:

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## stretch

> whats ya point  @stretch ? Thermal is used extensively during the day, no issue at all using it on DOC land.
> 
> Its illegal to hunt doc land at night thermal or no thermal


Ok, I've misunderstood something somewhere. I wrongly assumed TI devices were as sensitive to daylight as NVG gear is, but that's not the case. Happy to admit when I'm wrong. Daytime use is totally valid, and any night hunting on DOC land is illegal, regardless of TI/NVG status.

DOC did make an addition to their permit conditions regarding imaging devices. Here's one from 2014 that I dug out, which makes no mention of TI.

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## Savage1

> Up until late last year, I was knocking round with a guy who was getting into rabbit pest control. He bought a xd50 thermal scope. Started out on his ar15, then onto the 22mag.
> It was a bit of an arse to sight in, but a very effective tool.
> He started using it on deer in doc land at night which was when we parted company.
> Personally, I think if you need one for deer, you are defeating the whole ethos of hunting wild game,  and are probably not much of a hunter.
> But that's just my thoughts


You could use the same argument for using a gun over a knife when hunting wild game.

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## PerazziSC3

> I wrongly assumed TI devices were as sensitive to daylight as NVG gear is, but that's not the case. 
> 
> 
> Attachment 50733


Hence why everyone is selling NVG and going thermal  :Thumbsup:

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## kidmac42

Yes, you could. Come down to our own ethics I guess.

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## stretch

> You could use the same argument for using a gun over a knife when hunting wild game.


Or helicopters, or drones.

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## deer243

> whats ya point  @stretch ? Thermal is used extensively during the day, no issue at all using it on DOC land.
> 
> Its illegal to hunt doc land at night thermal or no thermal


Its interesting to note in 2014 the permit clearly states that "9" Hunting wild animals during the hours of darkness is prohibited. Thats clear cut, no hunting with whatever as stated during darkness.
But the recent permits stated no where that hunting during darkness is prohibited does it .
What it does now say is "4" the following activities are strictly prohibited during the hours of darkness.
discharging a firearm
use of any light, spotlight , NV, thermal etc.

So, if i was bow hunting during the full moon and could id my target is there actually anything stopping me hunting with a bow if im not using any light(just moonlight).
we know of cause the new permit means no hunting during darkness in DOC land  but if it went to court and i was bow hunting with the light of the full moon no where does it state on my permit that hunting wild animals is prohibited during darkness, no where does it say i cant use a bow or approved crossbow...legally am i breaking the conditions of the permit ... camt see where lol.
The fact is they should just state that hunting fullstopp with whatever is prohibited during the hours of darkness, clear cut.
As its written now i cant see how they have a leg to stand on if i wanted to bow hunt during a full moon......  just saying.
Some lawyer tell me im not correct?

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## 223nut

Hmm have wondered what the payload of a drone vrs the lightest carbon singleshot rifle...

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## striker

Im supprised that no has said anything about using drones to scout for animals

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## 7mmsaum

https://youtu.be/bIctYXrQtyc

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## stretch

> Im supprised that no has said anything about using drones to scout for animals


http://www.doc.govt.nz/get-involved/...ft-activities/

"Aircraft activities on or over public conservation lands and waters must have a concession or authorisation from DOC. This includes both commercial operations and private recreational activities."

...and...

Aircraft are defined under the Civil Aviation Authority rules (external site) and include unmanned aircraft (UAVs/UAS/RPAS/drones)

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## PerazziSC3

> Im surprised that no has said anything about using drones to scout for animals


It doesn't work really, you need to fly quite high (like 300m+) so as not to spook the animals and at that height you cant identify animals on device teh video is streaming back to.

I tried to drop in on a pig and it wasnt having anything of it. 

The only way drones would be helpull in scouting is if they had a massive zoom camera on the, but that is serious $$$. They are cool for making videos tho and probably quite cool for duck shooting etc.

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## 300winmag

I use two types of thermal gear, monocular for spotting and thermal scope. You can get that close to deer at night that they are totally oblivious to you, basically like shooting a deer at 200 yds during daylight, you can't mistake a deer for a human. I have no reason to shoot a deer with this setup over 100 yds, its that simple.

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## Zamkiwi

Guys in Zambia are using them on the crops for pigs.
First conversation I had with the hunter went like this .
F--k off what if its not a pig?
If anyone has been to Africa they would realise that  village people walk everywhere including across crops and farmland.
He told me that you cannot mistake the shape for anything other than what it is.
Cool bit of gear but like anything not fool proof nor should it be used on public land at night.
Its no different to spotlighting on private land in my eyes and if I could justify the cost and had private land to hunt on a regular basis I would give it a crack.
Its a lot of money to spend on a set up most hunters would use 3-4 times a year?

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## Timmay

I've seen people spend much, much more money on fast cars only to sit in rush hour traffic 5 days a week.....

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## Dougie

> Its a lot of money to spend on a set up most hunters would use 3-4 times a year?


What makes you say that? My old flatmate had one and I looked at everything through it and the novelty didn't wear off. Interesting how different materials retained heat (cool looking back at the house and the Windows pumping out the heat) and did you also know that a dogs butt hole is the hottest bit of it??!!!

I'm not sure how people could only use that experience 3-4 times a year  :ORLY:  



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## Marty Henry

[QUOTE=Dougie;480369]What makes you say that? My old flatmate had one and I looked at everything through it and the novelty didn't wear off. Interesting how different materials retained heat (cool looking back at the house and the Windows pumping out the heat) and did you also know that a dogs butt hole is the hottest bit of it??!!!

I'm not sure how people could only use that experience 3-4 times a year  :ORLY:  [emoji6


Well it's a dull day when you dont learn something new.!

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## R93

> and did you also know that a dogs butt hole is the hottest bit of it??!!!
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I didn't know you could see PNG from the north island?😆

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## sneeze

> I didn't know you could see PNG from the north island?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Possible if your over ripe but hole was  there at the time magnifying the thermal effect.

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## Smartie

certainly shows Rusa populations are not too bad in pockets

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## res

I have borrowed a thermal for finding rabbits, then putting a spotlight on them to shoot. fantastic bit of kit and the farmer was blown away by out vastly higher then normal tally. If I could afford one I would always carry one

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## TeRei

> Glad you edited your post, because I was referring to the recent (last 12 months) addition:
> 
> Attachment 50731


Look at condition 5.I know a bloke who is hunting in the local park. He wears a small but heavily modded head torch.He smacked over 5 deer walking into huts last week.All the deer are on the walking tracks. No bush stalking.Asked him if he would think about thermal gear. His response. WHY? I get more this way without even trying.

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## nzvermin

> Look at condition 5.I know a bloke who is hunting in the local park. He wears a small but heavily modded head torch.He smacked over 5 deer walking into huts last week.All the deer are on the walking tracks. No bush stalking.Asked him if he would think about thermal gear. His response. WHY? I get more this way without even trying.


Wow, please tell me this isn'ton doc land.

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## 223nut

Have used a thermal for identifying animals and then putting the torch on them. With me particular instance there is no way to misidentification target, unless it's a person with 4 legs with there head in the grass and looking up even few minutes... This is on private land so legal. Have used this out to 150-200m using the thermal allows me to wait for a good shot before turning the torch on which will then spook the animal.

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## Dougie

> I have borrowed a thermal for finding rabbits, then putting a spotlight on them to shoot. fantastic bit of kit and the farmer was blown away by out vastly higher then normal tally. If I could afford one I would always carry one


Man that sounds fun!!!


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## Zamkiwi

[QUOTE=Dougie;480369]What makes you say that? My old flatmate had one and I looked at everything through it and the novelty didn't wear off. Interesting how different materials retained heat (cool looking back at the house and the Windows pumping out the heat) and did you also know that a dogs butt hole is the hottest bit of it??!!!

I'm not sure how people could only use that experience 3-4 times a year  :ORLY:  




A large number of hunters just don't get out that often in a year.
Then chuck in the expense of the unit plus battery life and lugging it around.
Nor does every hunter enjoy sitting and watching for deer style of hunting.
Some people were questioning the ethics of it and I was pushing that in my eyes as long as it is not at night on public land it is not much of a threat to the deer population as you may spot them but you still have to get in for a shot.

Also Dougie are you saying that on a cold winters night we should be cuddling the dogs ass?

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## 223nut

There already uses for the, as well as hunting, get out the caulking gun on a cold night and find all the leaks in the walls and windows frames! Have heard of someone working out which muffins are freshest in a cage! But yeah they are an expensive toy if you don't rely on it for a business

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## res

> There already uses for the, as well as hunting, get out the caulking gun on a cold night and find all the leaks in the walls and windows frames! Have heard of someone working out which muffins are freshest in a cage! But yeah they are an expensive toy if you don't rely on it for a business


The one we used is owed by a company that assess insulation 


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## MikeB

I had a play with one in Wilsons hunting in Wanganui, bloody cool little unit, could see where people had been walking as their footprints left heat. Would love to have a play with one out hunting. It would make it bloody easy to nail pests at night, find where possums/peacocks are in the trees etc. Bloody expensive toy though.

Using it for shooting deer is a bit mean spirited, but whatever floats your boat.

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## GWH

> There already uses for the, as well as hunting, get out the caulking gun on a cold night and find all the leaks in the walls and windows frames! Have heard of someone working out which muffins are freshest in a cage! But yeah they are an expensive toy if you don't rely on it for a business


I reckon they'd also be bloody useful down the pub to determine which chicks are hot for it.

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## 223nut

@GWH also lets you know how many layers they are wearing and where...

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## BRADS

I have one in front of me now.
Do I use it yes, almost daily 
Would I use it to shoot deer no.
Is it awesome for locating animals? Yes.
It's amazing how many you miss with the binoculars.
There's no way you can mistake anything as a deer with this high end gear.
Another tool in the pack really.




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## Gibo

Cheat!

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## BRADS

> Cheat!


I new someone would say that.
It's Why I hadn't posted.
Each to there own
This is private land, and finding deer is my job everyday at the moment so call me lazy.
I do try to not use it, it only comes out when I'm struggling, example 5 guys that can't shoot bombing everything up, 4 deer down 440pm one deer to find none of the usual posies producing out comes mr Thermal.


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## PillowDribbler

What model is that Brads.

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## 223nut

thermal scopes are a huge jump up in price compared to handhelds, there is a reason behind this on the forum somewhere. pros and cons of both, guess it depends what you are using it for

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## Chop3r

> I new someone would say that.
> It's Why I hadn't posted.
> Each to there own
> This is private land, and finding deer is my job everyday at the moment so call me lazy.
> I do try to not use it, it only comes out when I'm struggling, example 5 guys that can't shoot bombing everything up, 4 deer down 440pm one deer to find none of the usual posies producing out comes mr Thermal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Question for you Brads, do they clearly show animals during the day light as well and if so does it also pick them up in thick bush ?

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## Timmay

> does it also pick them up in thick bush ?


im interested in this

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## 223nut

mine works in daylight but you get better contrast from the heat of the animal the colder the environment is. cant see through much, a thin layer of light foliage is ok but cant see past 5m into thick scrub. thats only my experience with the flir

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## BRADS

> Question for you Brads, do they clearly show animals during the day light as well and if so does it also pick them up in thick bush ?


Yes very clearly.
I mainly use it in the day to find those animals on the fringes of the bush about to feed out.
Yes at ranges under 1000 I can clearly tell weather I'm looking at a cow deer or sheep standing in the bush 
It likes cooler faces better but at this time of year it doesn't seem to matter.
In the summer it's use would be very limited from what I've seen.


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## Chop3r

Cheers for that, now just to convince Phillepo the buy one for an old man, yeah right :Psmiley:

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## 223nut

sounds like brads is quite a bit better than mine  :Sad:

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## Sideshow

> sounds like brads is quite a bit better than mine


Yes I compared the Flir with the pulsar range...Pulsar came out ahead on most fronts.

The good thing for me is that it's a tax right off as I can use it for my job!?
Shows up where heating pipes and under floor heating cable runs in floors and walls.
Very handy.
Good on Muntjac and other we pests in the uk

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## Jimmynostars

Anyone got a handheld in chch I could have a look through. Just random stuff like neighbours garage roof, how would they light up a 600w mh light through tin? Hypothetically of course, bludging bum must be doing something in the wee hours for cig and car money....

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## Pointer

The one I got to play with in cni bush picked up a man's outline at 50my through qunite heavy bush. Certainly couldn't see him. Wonder how that would go at distance?

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## veitnamcam

> The one I got to play with in cni bush picked up a man's outline at 50my through qunite heavy bush. Certainly couldn't see him. Wonder how that would go at distance?


And you still think people are going to get shot using them? Didn't you just make your own case for using them?

To answer your question tho of the ones I have used if they are suitable to use bush hunting(0-low mag wide field of view) they will detect to about 500y in  the open a lot less in light cover.

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## Pointer

Nowhere did I state that I think that at all VC. Having not looked through one at long range I can't say how accurate the image would be. Perhaps others can?

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## veitnamcam

> Nowhere did I state that I think that at all VC. Having not looked through one at long range I can't say how accurate the image would be. Perhaps others can?


Sorry that is how your opening post reads to me.

At long range you are basicly looking at a blob which you then identify with binos.

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## Pointer

Yeah sorry I see how I could have been taken that way, as the way I put it was pure sensationalism.  I should have been a journalist for stuff.co.nz  :Have A Nice Day: 

I should have been more precise and asked how safe is it , and how are they for target identification at long distance?

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## Sideshow

If your using it as an aid for target identification along with bins scope and the seven FAC rules, then I can't seeing it being an issue.
Let's face it why would you try to shoot through heavy cover at an image that you have not fully identified. 

Because that is just it, it's an image!

If it's heavy cover it would also be unethical to squeeze the trigger. 
As there would be no way that you could know that your bullet would not be deflected away from the zital kill zones.

From what I've read here the bulk of hunters are using it as an aid to find deer that are not in plain view.
This is how I would see my self using it.
Stalking through bush up scan no heat seen, move to next spot look up scan no heat move.
Or find an advantage point and then scan.
Now if it was a thermal scope it would be tempting to shoot but at long range you would not be able to tell if there were obstructions in the road.

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## Jake8thesnake

this is exactly what i thought too. No point trying to shoot thru bush - it would actually be a great safety benefit to have one as it would probably eliminate two hunters ever stalking each other (think Roar season) as I'm pretty certain the images would look different for a bloke compared to a deer.

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## Pointer

...and if we all followed those simple rules nobody would get shot each year, thermal or not. Sadly not the case

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## akaroa1

Im pretty interested in them also and have been following  this thread with interest.

Has anyone in Canterbury got a XQ38 or XD38 that they wouldn't mind showing off to a couple of seriously interested hunters ? 
I have been in discussion with @Yukon about getting a demo unit ... but it hasn't  happened and Im very keen to try before I buy.
Have tried out @223nut s Flir and it didn't seem to have the sort of range I would be looking for ! I would need 400 > 600m minimum in the open during the winter evenings / night and obviously much less in scattered scrub. 

I have access to a lot of private property hunting and Im out every week somewhere.
Just want to know where, when and who the animals are about, so that I can be in the right place at the right time to intercept them.
Can come to you or you could join me ( one hour from the city ) and then I would get a great idea of the suitability in my actual location ( good animal numbers ).

Also just to complicate things Yukon have brought out the Core unit now that is a hand held thermal imager that can also be used " front of scope" but as per usual new model and higher price ! but more versatile !

Contact from anyone who could help much appreciated.

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## Yukon

G'day. I haven't been on the forum for a while, by the time I've finished work I'm pretty braindead. Pity, I used to love hunting :-( Anyway, pop into North Canterbury Hunting and Fishing or Timaru Hunting and Fishing, they stock the stuff, and will be keen to take you out (I hope). We haven't had any demo units for a while because all our stock are presold to shops.

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## Yukon

Forgot to mention the Core. Pretty nice unit for casual hunting, very light, and sharp image. It does not have a video out or external power socket, so good for short hunts. I find that the hunts are pretty short anyway with this type of gear ;-)

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## 1justin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYMiXu5tEl8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZrWKBnlio

why dont the police a SAR use this shit you can get a 5000$ drone that can fly for about 40 mins and travel about 5-7ks 
the camaras are pretty pricy think about 8k for a good one why have all these people tramping though the bush when they could be deploing these

our children wont even have to leave the house to go hunting in the future

i think if your shooting at an animal on public land with a thermal camara it shouldnt be legal day or night

your not looking at real light your looking at a computer genrated image from the information input also this is not your natural sight, 

thats why people are saying you cant mistake an animal for a human cause they are very basic shapes your looking at and there very diffrent shapes between a human and a four leged, witch they see as being much more simple and safe but without that extra detail you miss alot and have no real idea what your looking at or what is behind it or for that matter anything that is covering its heat source or anything that heats  similar with the background 

i think if people are shooting with thermal it breaks the rule identify your target beyound all doubt, its kinda like your grandad that can bearly see but still gos out shooting but tells you he knows best, in 10 years when the thermals 4k image quilty i mite soften to the idea of thermal scopes but they will still have limitations 

i have a thermal camara its a flir 320x240 if ya guna get one better to go with the other company so ya get 30hz, 9hz is fine but just a little anoyying and go as high a resolution as you can,
 and i dont see why you shouldnt use them for spoting other than the fact that ur a cheat haha

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## Pengy

Police and SAR certainly do use thermal. Drones are being tried out for SAR purposes, but pretty limited in range, and even if equipped with thermal gear, they will struggle to get an image through thick canopy.

That last paragraph makes it sound like you are rather confused  :Sad:

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## Sauer

1justin have you actually looked at a deer through a thermal imager? I have an XQ50, and I can assure you that the images I have seen are not 'basic shapes'.

I recently watched a hind grazing her way across a grassy terrace in full darkness. I watched her raise her head and look around to check her surroundings, just as you would by eye if there was enough light. The clarity was such that I could see her turning her ears trying to pick up any unusual sounds. I could also clearly see the 20 or so cattle beasts bedded down in a hollow between myself and her, so I left her alone and moved on to another area I knew there would be deer. 

Basic shapes? Definitely not. Unmistakably a hind and cattle. 

I also watched 4 deer sneaking away off a grassy riverbed into the bush - obviously aware I was there, also in pitch black. I would never have known these were there without the thermal imager.

I never fired a shot at any of these deer. Once it was light enough, I put the XQ50 away in my day pack, and my 14 year old son and I hunted the clearings up the side creeks as we always do, and my son was fortunate enough to shoot a nice yearling hind.

To suggest I had no idea what I was looking at when I could watch her raise her head and turn her ears trying to pick up a strange sound, as any of you who have seen deer in the wild do, is ridiculous. This particular area I have hunted 30+ times, I know exactly what was behind where the hind was standing.

This particular area often has deer grazing the bush edge. We need to cross the main river to have a chance of shooting one. We only used the thermal imager to see if there were any there before crossing - this was to see if it was worth waiting there till it got light enough to shoot, or using the time to move upstream to other likely areas.

Could you explain how we were 'cheats'? The thermal imager didn't enable us to fire a shot before it was light enough to see through the scope. In fact mostly what it showed us was the ones we had scared off in the dark that we otherwise wouldn't have known were there.

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## Timmay

I would love to get my hands on one to see what they look like during the day at range. Any good YouTube clips??

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## timattalon

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYMiXu5tEl8
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZrWKBnlio
> 
> 
> 
> i have a thermal camara its a flir 320x240 if ya guna get one better to go with the other company so ya get 30hz, 9hz is fine but just a little anoyying and go as high a resolution as you can,
>  and i dont see why you shouldnt use them for spoting other than the fact that ur a cheat haha


It always gets me that these guys say hunting with a thermal is cheating then they promptly go out with a rifle and scope to hunt. Both are simply advances in hunting technology furthering our advantages against our quarry. If they are so against cheating should they be using a Bow? A spear? Or even simply their hands as they were given? 

These advances in tech allow us to decide ourselves how much of an advantage we desire. Whether we shoot with a falling block in an old calibre, modern rifles and accuracy beyond our own persoanl abilities? Camo gear? That is our decision to make. I dont have the money to use thermal, and as much as I would like one,  I probably wont. But I wont hold it against someone who does. Just cos I drive an older car, does not mean someone cannot drive a nicer one that I cannot afford. In fact I am all for that, cos that car in a few years could be affordable for me to own second hand.....

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## Boaraxa

> It always gets me that these guys say hunting with a thermal is cheating then they promptly go out with a rifle and scope to hunt. Both are simply advances in hunting technology furthering our advantages against our quarry. If they are so against cheating should they be using a Bow? A spear? Or even simply their hands as they were given? 
> 
> These advances in tech allow us to decide ourselves how much of an advantage we desire. Whether we shoot with a falling block in an old calibre, modern rifles and accuracy beyond our own persoanl abilities? Camo gear? That is our decision to make. I dont have the money to use thermal, and as much as I would like one,  I probably wont. But I wont hold it against someone who does. Just cos I drive an older car, does not mean someone cannot drive a nicer one that I cannot afford. In fact I am all for that, cos that car in a few years could be affordable for me to own second hand.....


Some good points but come on when you loose challenges life gets pretty boring pretty quick, shot plenty of deer & in a spot light but not anymore , iv been out recently 8 times seen deer 4 trips & spooked more all in the bush had a mate go out at night looking for a pig in the same spot & see 12 at night with a dig ..what are you doing lol..ouch I felt the burn & even worse the kids don't ask if I got anything now  :TT TT:  still I will not weaken if the deer keep beating me I will keep fit , will I get thermal optics or put a light on them..nope if someone tells me they shot a deer with thermal optics or a drone or xbox ...somehow ! will I think your a tosser...yep  :Thumbsup:

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## R93

I am thinking I will get a hand held one. It won't get much use hunting deer. No need.

It would be good to cover a face in the winter for bull thar or chams that might elude the binos. 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## Timmay

Anyone that drives to a hunting spot in a car is a cheater IMO. They should walk like I did back in my day... In snow, up hill both ways.

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## 257weatherby

> Anyone that drives to a hunting spot in a car is a cheater IMO. They should walk like I did back in my day... In snow, up hill both ways.


In bare feet and carryng a hundred yr old smelly with irons, making your brews with a billy and flint and wood to heat it. And only allowed to eat damper. :XD:

----------


## timattalon

> Some good points but come on when you loose challenges life gets pretty boring pretty quick, shot plenty of deer & in a spot light but not anymore , iv been out recently 8 times seen deer 4 trips & spooked more all in the bush had a mate go out at night looking for a pig in the same spot & see 12 at night with a dig ..what are you doing lol..ouch I felt the burn & even worse the kids don't ask if I got anything now  still I will not weaken if the deer keep beating me I will keep fit , will I get thermal optics or put a light on them..nope if someone tells me they shot a deer with thermal optics or a drone or xbox ...somehow ! will I think your a tosser...yep



This is actually part of my point. We can choose how much of a challenge we face? Do we walk in or is catching a lift in a chopper cheating? I dont spotlight anything excep rabbits and the occasional (unlucky) possum. And have not done that in ages....Most of the time I hunt with a single shot rifle in a calibre that is over 100 years old. I dont mind not shooting anything as success is measured differently. A successful trip is one where I have been successful in being where I want to be. All I am getting at is that the digi's are no more or less of an advance than scopes or rifles were over what they replaced. They have their place.

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## Boaraxa

ooo you fellas are getting close to the flame!....next heli hunting will be sporting just smash them all lol or are doc the best hunter with 1080 wonder how many stags they have killed over the last 2 months  :ORLY:   a line needs to be drawn somewhere chaps I no this isn't a club like the deer stalkers or some other association but Id like to think we all have some morals if not why wang on about poachers & spotlighters & any other scallywags that likes blasting game how ever they see fit ?...maybe im missing something & yes I have seen it done once...and whats the point in owning a fast car when the speed limit is 100k  :Psmiley:

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## MassiveAttack

It comes down to the principal of fair chase.  Does the animal have a realistic chance of escape.

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## 1justin

i dont care if you get a helicopter with an m60 out the side and fly round gunning them down i sure people know what im getting at when i say cheating, and yes i bet back in the day when scopes wernt common some people called people that used them ...soft..cheats...bad shots more making a joke than anything

what im getting at is your not looking at the light your eyes pick up, you may not even be looking at the correct thermal image if your equipment is faulty or a software update is bad your looking at a computer genrated image from the information and there is limatations and mistakes can be made, 

the more you look through one the more you get used to how heat is seen and so the more time in use the safe the user will be

if i look at you from 10 meters away i can see you as clear as day no mistaking you but it is not the same as looking at someone in the light you dont have the detail or the detail of the background,as you are not looking at light you are looking at heat and things can have very similer heats so a point could be if a person is leaning againt a tree and there not moving and they have a jacket on with a hood up faceing away from you there 500m away its just past night fall so the sky is bitter cold and the tree is still warm you probly wont see them, but in normal light you would have every opertunity to see them and they could be in the background of your shot where as you just think there a tree cause your not looking at light your looking at heat and basicaly anything that is the same heat as your background is invisable to you witch is one place mistakes can be made

im not saying there is a high risk for mistakes with them im just saying there is a risk

and to counter the point as it is complety diffrent vision source it could increase safety at times if you where to use it to spot as well and you may see things its hard to see in normal light
that you may miss

theres a low risk when ur on private land you know you have good gear and you,ve watched the animal for a long time you know the background 

all im trying to say its not just about identfying your target its about knowing the background as well witch there limits for thermal as you are not looking at LIGHT you are looking at heat

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## PerazziSC3

> I am thinking I will get a hand held one. It won't get much use hunting deer. No need.
> 
> It would be good to cover a face in the winter for bull thar or chams that might elude the binos. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Not to flash on rocky faces from my experience, even tho it's winter the rocks still glow way to much

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## Nibblet

> It comes down to the principal of fair chase.  Does the animal have a realistic chance of escape.


Personally I find this thought comical. 

We're using guns. 

Preys natural instinct is to put space between itself and whatever wants to eat it. Even bush stalking which gives the deer a better chance of survival it's still a joke. You spook a deer at 5m, it runs to 40m then stops to assess the situation;
What is it? Is it still approaching? Do I need more space? Nope the predator is just standing there, I'm safe for now, stupid thing is just playing with a stick?

They don't have a concept of guns. 

Even worse when your talking about 400m shots etc. 
Damn this grass is good! Ah fuck that hurt! Bang!

We use technology because we would never stand a chance with our hands.

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## MSL

> i dont care if you get a helicopter with an m60 out the side and fly round gunning them down i sure people know what im getting at when i say cheating, and yes i bet back in the day when scopes wernt common some people called people that used them ...soft..cheats...bad shots more making a joke than anything
> 
> what im getting at is your not looking at the light your eyes pick up, you may not even be looking at the correct thermal image if your equipment is faulty or a software update is bad your looking at a computer genrated image from the information and there is limatations and mistakes can be made, 
> 
> the more you look through one the more you get used to how heat is seen and so the more time in use the safe the user will be
> 
> if i look at you from 10 meters away i can see you as clear as day no mistaking you but it is not the same as looking at someone in the light you dont have the detail or the detail of the background,as you are not looking at light you are looking at heat and things can have very similer heats so a point could be if a person is leaning againt a tree and there not moving and they have a jacket on with a hood up faceing away from you there 500m away its just past night fall so the sky is bitter cold and the tree is still warm you probly wont see them, but in normal light you would have every opertunity to see them and they could be in the background of your shot where as you just think there a tree cause your not looking at light your looking at heat and basicaly anything that is the same heat as your background is invisable to you witch is one place mistakes can be made
> 
> im not saying there is a high risk for mistakes with them im just saying there is a risk
> ...


Have you used any late model thermal gear?

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## Boaraxa

> Personally I find this thought comical. 
> 
> We're using guns. 
> 
> Preys natural instinct is to put space between itself and whatever wants to eat it. Even bush stalking which gives the deer a better chance of survival it's still a joke. You spook a deer at 5m, it runs to 40m then stops to assess the situation;
> What is it? Is it still approaching? Do I need more space? Nope the predator is just standing there, I'm safe for now, stupid thing is just playing with a stick?
> 
> They don't have a concept of guns. 
> 
> ...


Nzda the code :
Definition of fair chase
Animal must not have been taken in an enclosed area ie, behind deer wire or any such fence or fixture that impedes the animals unrestricted chance of escape
Animal must not have been restrained ie, in a snare, trap, fence etc
Animal must not have been taken with the aid of a spotlight or use of night vision equipment
Animal must not have been taken from an aircraft, powered vehicle or vessel
Animal must not have been coursed by dogs (with the exception of wild pigs)
Animal must not have been taken in a manner where animal behaviour has been intentionally influenced by the use of a powered craft

seems like a good set of rules to me especially if heads are going to be entered , shooting a deer with thermal or a spotlight wouldn't be comparing apples with apples would it.

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## Nibblet

That's my personal opinion and then there's NZDA opinion. 

I'm all for having rules etc, especially like you say when entering heads and the like. 

But I  just find it funny calling it 'fair'. If you want to get all definition on it;

adverb
1.
without cheating or trying to achieve unjust advantage.
"no one could say he played fair" 

Personally I find it hard to legitimately say I don't have an unjust advantage over a deer when I'm rocking round with my 7mmRm and a 3-15 power scope, rangefinder and ballistic chart worked out by some pretty flash Harry mathematics. 

Just my opinion though.

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## stretch

What's fair is humans being at the top of the evolutionary ladder, and hacking things like big brains, opposable thumbs, tools and technology at our disposal.

I'm happy to use whatever tools and tech I can get my hands on for hunting. 

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

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## veitnamcam

> Nzda the code :
> Definition of fair chase
> Animal must not have been taken in an enclosed area ie, behind deer wire or any such fence or fixture that impedes the animals unrestricted chance of escape
> Animal must not have been restrained ie, in a snare, trap, fence etc
> Animal must not have been taken with the aid of a spotlight or use of night vision equipment
> Animal must not have been taken from an aircraft, powered vehicle or vessel
> Animal must not have been coursed by dogs (with the exception of wild pigs)
> Animal must not have been taken in a manner where animal behaviour has been intentionally influenced by the use of a powered craft
> 
> seems like a good set of rules to me especially if heads are going to be entered , shooting a deer with thermal or a spotlight wouldn't be comparing apples with apples would it.


Should also say " not bred in captivity for the purpose of release'' IMHO if talking about heads entered in competitions.

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## Sauer

1justin, Despite your assertions that a thermal imager is looking at heat and not light, I think you will find that it is in fact detecting infra red LIGHT of differing wavelengths emitted by objects at different temperatures.

Infra red may not be in a humans' visible spectrum, but that doesn't change the fact that it light.

Some people believe that deer can see into the ultra violet range, also outside the human visible spectrum. Perhaps you think the deer are cheating because they can see something we can't.

In my experience, the thermal imager is just a tool, like my binoculars, that enhance my vision when lighting is poor. With the little bit I have used it, I doubt I could fire a shot at dawn or dusk after having been looking through the TI as it is bright enough to spoil my night vision.

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## Feral

Deer definitely cheat. They can smell me looong before I've even seen em. Damned x-ray noses or something.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

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## timattalon

> i dont care if you get a helicopter with an m60 out the side and fly round gunning them down i sure people know what im getting at when i say cheating, and yes i bet back in the day when scopes wernt common some people called people that used them ...soft..cheats...bad shots more making a joke than anything
> 
> what im getting at is your not looking at the light your eyes pick up, you may not even be looking at the correct thermal image if your equipment is faulty or a software update is bad your looking at a computer genrated image from the information and there is limatations and mistakes can be made, 
> 
> the more you look through one the more you get used to how heat is seen and so the more time in use the safe the user will be
> 
> if i look at you from 10 meters away i can see you as clear as day no mistaking you but it is not the same as looking at someone in the light you dont have the detail or the detail of the background,as you are not looking at light you are looking at heat and things can have very similer heats so a point could be if a person is leaning againt a tree and there not moving and they have a jacket on with a hood up faceing away from you there 500m away its just past night fall so the sky is bitter cold and the tree is still warm you probly wont see them, but in normal light you would have every opertunity to see them and they could be in the background of your shot where as you just think there a tree cause your not looking at light your looking at heat and basicaly anything that is the same heat as your background is invisable to you witch is one place mistakes can be made
> 
> im not saying there is a high risk for mistakes with them im just saying there is a risk
> ...


You raise some valid points regarding safety etc too. And wether a shooter chooses to use thermal or not, we are all still 100% responsible to make sure that we identify our targets and checking our firing zone. If there is any doubt, do NOT take the shot. If an operator is using thermal gear they need to know its pro's and its con's, and as you mention it may not pick up everything. But it will pick up some things normal sight will miss so using both cannot make it worse. 

A thermal has the potential to show you where a hunter is that you would have otherwise missed. You may not see them with a naked eye or a scope but you may see them with the thermal. Then once you know "something" is there, you can set about identifying it beyond all doubt by any and all means you can.

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## 1justin

"Infra red may not be in a humans' visible spectrum, but that doesn't change the fact that it light"

yep

"eye sight" diffrence im talking about sun shines light down hits objects bounces off it and then hits our eye and we can see everything that light bounces off of and where there is no light we see "black"

infared is the imiting of infared waves or "heat waves" from a object that is then decoded by a computer program to give an image in ur view finder , we are not use to this we are use to seeing everything infront of us as we have our hole life so when you looking at a montain face and you see nothing on it in a thermal you think theres nothing there as is in your nature, but if there was any number of things there but they where the same tempreture as the montain face they are invisable to you witch is not in ur nature to assume, just feel like its a spot you could get i trouble in

looked at some you tube fotage of the pulsar q50??? shows hole tree lines just being black blobs soo unless your running alot higher resolution than 640x i dont think theres enough definition there yet

im not saying there not great tools i just think making shots through them is slightly breaking the identify your target rule and on private land where you know the lay of the land and there should be no one there that compensates for this but on public land where people could be anywhere it is a danger but there illegal anyway so what does it matter


speaking of deer cheating, do any of you use those HEC's suits noticed anything diffrent?

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## 257weatherby

> "Infra red may not be in a humans' visible spectrum, but that doesn't change the fact that it light"
> 
> yep
> 
> "eye sight" diffrence im talking about sun shines light down hits objects bounces off it and then hits our eye and we can see everything that light bounces off of and where there is no light we see "black"
> 
> infared is the imiting of infared waves or "heat waves" from a object that is then decoded by a computer program to give an image in ur view finder , we are not use to this we are use to seeing everything infront of us as we have our hole life so when you looking at a montain face and you see nothing on it in a thermal you think theres nothing there as is in your nature, but if there was any number of things there but they where the same tempreture as the montain face they are invisable to you witch is not in ur nature to assume, just feel like its a spot you could get i trouble in
> 
> looked at some you tube fotage of the pulsar q50??? shows hole tree lines just being black blobs soo unless your running alot higher resolution than 640x i dont think theres enough definition there yet
> ...


You look at a youtube vid, and you know everything there is to know about thermal. Unlike you, I happen to own one, a rather good one, and I disagree with you. The internet  has made everyone an expert.

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## Sideshow

> You look at a youtube vid, and you know everything there is to know about thermal. Unlike you, I happen to own one, a rather good one, and I disagree with you. The internet  has made everyone an expert.



But But I've just gotten me popcorn  :Psmiley:

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## Sauer

1justin, you seem to be of the impression that you eyes cannot lie to you but an electronically generated image can. Unfortunately you are far from correct. Perhaps you should do some reading on how your brain interprets the images detected by your eyes.

It is very common for your brain to "fill in" parts of the picture with what it expects to see based on past experience, so what you think you are seeing is not necessarily what is there. I work in an industry where this phenomenon has unfortunately killed a lot of people over the years.

You cannot shoot through the Pulsar XQ50 - it is a handheld monocular device, and not rifle mounted. At some stage you need to put it down, locate and identify your target and then shoot it with your rifle.

I doubt you could ever be 100% certain there is not someone in the bush behind the animal you are shooting at without walking over and taking a look, but this is not how the majority of hunters get shot. Predominantly they are shot by another member of their own party after having separated during a hunt. For this reason my son and I NEVER separate, and we only carry one rifle between us.

Despite how topical it seems to be, I have never heard of anyone being shot by mis-identification through a thermal imager. The same cannot be said for mis-identification via your supposedly infallible eyesight.

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## 1justin

Yes your right sauer humans do have a big problem with our brain inpereting images and seeing things ect but thats what we have and we have chosen to still let people shoot rifles on public land with these limatations, 

Im just talkimg about thermal and making refrences to human sight to ilastrate times when it could be dangrous not trying to say that human sight is perfect and safe far from it as you point out

257 weatherby

You obvoaly didnt read all the posts...
Nor did you state what gear you have and if it is better than the q50

I have a flir 320x240

Then someone refrenced there pulsar q50 to say its a very clear image so i looked on you tube to see its still not nearly at a level of detail where i would feel safe that nothing can be hiding in the background nor does a thermal of any quilty solve the problem, things of the same tempreture in the background can still hide in plain sight but congradulations on taking an uninformed dig and makeing a comment that did not add any point to the conversation

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## Daggers_187

> Then someone refrenced there pulsar q50 to say its a very clear image so i looked on you tube to see its still not nearly at a level of detail where i would feel safe that nothing can be hiding in the background nor does a thermal of any quilty solve the problem, things of the same tempreture in the background can still hide in plain sight but congradulations on taking an uninformed dig and makeing a comment that did not add any point to the conversation


I have a pulsar HD-38. 

It has sufficient levels of detail that I can identify deer at a 600 yards. It also has sufficient levels of detail that I can distinguish deer from sheep at 600 yards. 

Due to the gradients of temperature, things which are further away than the object of interest, but at the same temperature as the object of interest, will appear dimmer in brightness. 

I think thermal optics should be viewed as a companion to binoculars for animal location, but not as a standalone implement for animal location and identification. 

To clarify for people, I do not have experience with any systems which mount directly to a firearm and act as a sighting system. Nor do I have any interest in these systems.

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## Sauer

1justin

I do believe it was me that said I had a clear image of a hind walking back to the bush that was raising her head and looking around.

I must apologise for my petulance, I don't know what came over me to make such an uninformed comment and not add any point to the conversation.

After all, I have only taken the Pulsar XQ50 out hunting and used it to observe real animals under hunting conditions. 

You on the other hand have obviously done extensive research, having watched a few low quality videos on YouTube. I must admit that as a result of your research you are much better placed to comment on the units' capabilities than I am, and I will therefore try to refrain from making any further pointless, uninformed comments.

You do seem to be somewhat missing the point though, that a thermal imager is only an aid to locate an animal, and does not play any part in the act of shooting. From time to time I locate animals with my binoculars, but I have never shot one with my binos.

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## Sideshow

[QUOTE=Daggers_187;524715]I have a pulsar HD-38. 

Hey Daggers_187 I'm looking at getting one of those how do you find it in the bush?
Cheers S

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## 257weatherby

[QUOTE=Sideshow;524898]


> I have a pulsar HD-38. 
> 
> Hey Daggers_187 I'm looking at getting one of those how do you find it in the bush?
> Cheers S


Shit! don't get one of them! they shoot people when you aren't looking............ Putting mine on a leash just in case

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## 257weatherby

> Yes your right sauer humans do have a big problem with our brain inpereting images and seeing things ect but thats what we have and we have chosen to still let people shoot rifles on public land with these limatations, 
> 
> Im just talkimg about thermal and making refrences to human sight to ilastrate times when it could be dangrous not trying to say that human sight is perfect and safe far from it as you point out
> 
> 257 weatherby
> 
> You obvoaly didnt read all the posts...
> Nor did you state what gear you have and if it is better than the q50
> 
> ...


You have a flir........ hahahahahahahahah choke, gasp, hahahahaha! there's your problem right there!

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## Daggers_187

[QUOTE=Sideshow;524898]


> I have a pulsar HD-38. 
> 
> Hey Daggers_187 I'm looking at getting one of those how do you find it in the bush?
> Cheers S


I would highly recommend you give one a burn before you buy. Because they take abit of actual skill to use properly in the bush. It's hard to describe. But yes, very useful. But far more useful for scanning faces and slips.

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## 1justin

Lol sorry saum that comment was to 257 weatherby should have used the quote function properly

Yea your right again saum an imager has never shot someone and the question of the thread is "hpw long before someone gets shot with one" so there talking about thermal scopes not imagers in the question,(well least thats what i assumed) im very pro people useing minoculars and have one myself, and as i have posted before i think thermal scopes break the identify ur target/ firezone rule, my point about quilty and resolution is that by the time we get up to around 1080p quility would be so hard for something to be missed in the background that it would probly comply with indemtify your fireing zone, and think i have said before as well that imagwrs when used in combanation increase safty.

I only refrence imagers cause they work by the same means as the scope and lots of people have them if this thread was just for people with scopes and not imagers to comment would be a short list of people commenting,

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## timattalon

At the end of the day, whether you use eyes, bino's scope thermal or IR , or whatever the next great thing is, it still comes down to a shooter using the information that he has at hand to decide if he has identified a target beyond all doubt before he fires a shot. The wrong decision will be made sometime no matter how much people use. Hopefully it becomes rarer and occurs far less often (hopefully never) but due to people being human, thought processes and decisions are made and I believe it will never truly go away. 

In saying that, anything that adds more information to people trying to make that call can only help. It is no longer about fair chase and probably has not been truly "fair chase" since man invented the bow and arrow or arguably the spear. It is about safety for you as a hunter and those around you in the environment. 

I had the opportunity to look through some of Yukon Pulsar gear about 6 months ago. We scanned a paddock with a powerful torch looking for rabbits and stock just to see how many we could see. We then scanned the same paddock with a Thermal scope as well as an infra red one. The thermal showed us that we were seeing less than half the rabbits that were in the paddock, highlighted stock that we missed with the torch and the infrared gave a similar but different perspective of the same information. All the additional animals were within the same range as the torch and were not further away. Definition was impressive and details could be made out as easily as a black and white TV as a comparison. If looking at a black and TV you can tell the difference between people and animals very easily as it is more than just shapes.While the definition was not as clear as a photo, it was certainly clear enough to tell the difference between rabbits and a stoat, or cat, sheep, dogs, person and deer. And I can only see this technology getting better.

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## Sauer

Daggers you are quite right in saying they take quite a bit of skill to use properly, and I certainly don't have it with the short amount of time I have spent using it thus far. In fact the problems I have had old probably give a few a bit of a chuckle.

The first night I was away hunting I spent a bit of time in the dark watching a hare near the hut, trying to learn to use it a bit better, but mustn't have switched it off properly because the next morning I started scanning the opposite river bank before we crossed (again in the dark) and I noticed a small symbol flashing on the screen - turned out to be the low battery warning, and the unit went dead.

Didn't want to muck around in the dark trying to change batteries, so put it away in my day pack, crossed the river and as it got light we watched four hinds we had spooked disappear off into the bush.

Next morning with new batteries, I again scanned across the river, saw nothing but was having a bit of trouble focusing the unit, crossed the river, and watched probably the same four hinds again disappear off into the bush.

Back at the hut later in the day I had a good look to see why I couldn't focus properly to find the whole lens mechanism had come loose, so instead of turning the focusing ring I was unscrewing the whole lens.

As I have said before on this thread, I found it was set a bit bright and looking through it spoiled my night vision - for probably 30 seconds or so after looking through it all I could see with my right eye was a bright spot, and couldn't have shot anything anyway. Playing with the settings will fix this.

It is a learning curve and it will take time to become proficient with it, but we only got it for a bit of fun and to see what we had previously been missing.

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## Sideshow

> Daggers you are quite right in saying they take quite a bit of skill to use properly, and I certainly don't have it with the short amount of time I have spent using it thus far. In fact the problems I have had old probably give a few a bit of a chuckle.
> 
> The first night I was away hunting I spent a bit of time in the dark watching a hare near the hut, trying to learn to use it a bit better, but mustn't have switched it off properly because the next morning I started scanning the opposite river bank before we crossed (again in the dark) and I noticed a small symbol flashing on the screen - turned out to be the low battery warning, and the unit went dead.
> 
> Didn't want to muck around in the dark trying to change batteries, so put it away in my day pack, crossed the river and as it got light we watched four hinds we had spooked disappear off into the bush.
> 
> Next morning with new batteries, I again scanned across the river, saw nothing but was having a bit of trouble focusing the unit, crossed the river, and watched probably the same four hinds again disappear off into the bush.
> 
> Back at the hut later in the day I had a good look to see why I couldn't focus properly to find the whole lens mechanism had come loose, so instead of turning the focusing ring I was unscrewing the whole lens.
> ...


Ok I'll use my left eye :Thumbsup:  and won't screw the lens :XD:

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## Smiddy

Night vision for meat hunting, vari-power scope for head hunting 
Used the xd50 (I think that's what it was) we didn't have it rifle mounted,  used it to find animals, sneak up under moonlight to under 100 and turn the sun on, was quite effective - private land of coarse


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## TeRei

Heard of a bloke who was given a very tidy sum from his sister overseas who is married into wealth. Bought some thermal binos and is nailing quite a few with a suppressed Sako Quad.His girlfriend is super upset about being the driver at night but the threat of no holiday to Singapore obtained compliance.

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## veitnamcam

> Heard of a bloke who was given a very tidy sum from his sister overseas who is married into wealth. Bought some thermal binos and is nailing quite a few with a suppressed Sako Quad.His girlfriend is super upset about being the driver at night but the threat of no holiday to Singapore obtained compliance.


Why am I not that guy?

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

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## res

> Why am I not that guy?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk


Dito! 

One of my sisters even married a overpaid lawyer in London, maybe I should start dropping hints

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## Pengy

Check out the prices in UK. You may be surprised

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## Sideshow

@Pengy year the prices here are not to bad....where it gets tough is taking them from one country to another, you could risk chucking it in with the rest of your camera equipment...but if someone in the know spots it you lose it plus bad books with the  authorities  :Sad:

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## johnd

Havent read the 9 pages but my 2 cents is this

Back in the day people said using a scope was unsporting, its just another teck no logical advance if it didnt happen we would all be using bows and clubs.

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## Brakelie

Sorry to dig up an old thread but has anyone had a go with the night tech thermal imagers?  The HD 25 looks like comparatively good value 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## scottrods

I'd love one as a handheld. Plenty of wallabies need culling that are spotlight shy.
I also know of a private place where deer and pigs are doing damage but also light shy.

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## Sarvo

I have both Hand held Thermal and Rifle mounted Thermal now
I am not rich becuase of it - but :-(

However - I hear your concern and thought same 18 months ago - HOWEVER - I have since learnt and witnessed that there is also a positive towards safty as one can identify human at 1k + before dawn and evening where scope/bino cannot give such clarity/difinition

SO - it can spin both ways - unsafe-safe

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## 40mm

I wonder what the impact of all the electronic 'tools' we have available to us will be on the future hunting?

The number of hunters is surely rising.
The tech available to make hunting easier keep getting cheaper and better.
Electronic callers, gps, thermal etc

I might have a crack at long lining deer, a set of 200 hooks should get me a few. Any idea for bait?

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## Sarvo

> I wonder what the impact of all the electronic 'tools' we have available to us will be on the future hunting?
> 
> The number of hunters is surely rising.
> The tech available to make hunting easier keep getting cheaper and better.
> Electronic callers, gps, thermal etc
> 
> I might have a crack at long lining deer, a set of 200 hooks should get me a few. Any idea for bait?


You cannot beat two strong legs and 2 good eyes (which unfortunately some of us are losing - think about it ??

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## tetawa

> I wonder what the impact of all the electronic 'tools' we have available to us will be on the future hunting?
> 
> The number of hunters is surely rising.
> The tech available to make hunting easier keep getting cheaper and better.
> Electronic callers, gps, thermal etc
> 
> I might have a crack at long lining deer, a set of 200 hooks should get me a few. Any idea for bait?


1080?

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## tetawa

> You cannot beat two strong legs and 2 good eyes (which unfortunately some of us are losing - think about it ??


+1

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## Sarvo

> 1080?


Has my old block been done again ??

They (Red Deer) be almost totally immuned to 1080 by now - f~~cking place been drenched in it :-(

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## oneshot

If you need a thermal to locate deer then you should also be entering in the special Olympics.

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## Taff

Used a spotter the other day in thick woodland, lets you spot deer easier, but that does not mean you shoot more. My mate who's a guide agrees with this.

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## Taff

> If you need a thermal to locate deer then you should also be entering in the special Olympics.


Anyone can spot a deer, but not everyone can spot all the deer in a area

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## Kiwi Greg

> If you need a thermal to locate deer then you should also be entering in the special Olympics.





> Anyone can spot a deer, but not everyone can spot all the deer in a area


And first of all there needs to be Deer in the area.....

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## 300CALMAN

> I wonder what the impact of all the electronic 'tools' we have available to us will be on the future hunting?
> 
> The number of hunters is surely rising.
> The tech available to make hunting easier keep getting cheaper and better.
> Electronic callers, gps, thermal etc
> 
> I might have a crack at long lining deer, a set of 200 hooks should get me a few. Any idea for bait?


A helicopter to help you find it and put you in range?

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