# Hunting > Hunting >  No lpg bottles on choppers

## ANOTHERHUNTER

I have heard a few rumors that  helicopters are no longer allowed to carry lpg bottles anymore . can anyone confirm this ? 
would be good to know as if that is your only source of cooking  you will need to take an alternative. sounds like the small butane and white spirits ones are still ok.

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## sako75

Heard of a group flying into the Boyd Hut with Helisika a couple of weeks ago had to leave theirs behind.
As you said the small butane were ok

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## doinit

Not really surprised if that is the case now. 
A long time back we sometimes  took the float plane across to our blocks on Stewart Island,they were a tad touchy then about any gas bottles on board the plane.
Can gas bottles rupture at certain heights? anyone know?

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## 223nut

Would be a go rumour to get confirmed... Will change the plans for many a hunting party

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## tetawa

> I have heard a few rumors that  helicopters are no longer allowed to carry lpg bottles anymore . can anyone confirm this ? 
> would be good to know as if that is your only source of cooking  you will need to take an alternative. sounds like the small butane and white spirits ones are still ok.


Ring the outfit your flying with, get it from the "horses mouth"

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## gonetropo

LPG is a mix of propane and butane, its relatively a low pressure containment gas and the average container should not be an issue unless you get to extreme high altitude (way higher than a chopper) where atmospheric pressure is so low the vessel may rupture.
the main issue is that if a bottle does leak it tends to "sit" in confined spaces unlike natural gas which is lighter and expands to fill the volume.
so if you tied your bottle to the heli's skids you have eliminated that risk

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## StrikerNZ

Seems like it..

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## 223nut

Cheers striker, that sums it up.... So 4 small cylinders for a group of 4 guys for 4 nights... I know I could use one in 4 nights easy especially when ou think you usually use a helicopter to gain elevation therefore colder..... 

Guess it means a seperate trip just for gas and other gear

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Never had a pilot check whats in my pack or chillybin...

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## gonetropo

the heights would be bloody extreme ! as altitude increase external pressure decreases. its like if you filled a helium balloon full and let it go then a few 1000 feet up it will expand till it ruptures. LPG cylinders are way tougher but the internal pressure at ground level is higher but theres 5 mm of steel and an over pressure valve fitted. seems a lot of bollocks to me but guess its up to the heli owner and hope its not more govt intervention

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## erniec

DOC are really against fires.
Went to the Mangatutu Hot Springs at  Labour Weekend.
Already to try out my Bakewell Burner.
Signs everywhere "No Fires".
DOCs "Ranger Dan" in residence to police.
The camp site used to have wood burning fireplaces.
Yet if I went up the road 400m no issue.
I had even taken my own wood even though there is heaps standing dead manuka to burn.
Didn't take my weber bbq would have been interesting how that would been looked at.
I think they need to review their policies as devices/equipment like the bakewell burner,themettes and these new Biofuel stoves should be encouraged.

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## outdoorlad

This new policy is going to piss a few groups off who like to take all the luxuries with them & lpg cookers to feast up on, hopefully operators can get an approval to carry them in external pods? Always someone in the ivory towers of Wellington trying to fark it up for us.

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## chainsaw

> This new policy is going to piss a few groups off who like to take all the luxuries with them & lpg cookers to feast up on, hopefully operators can get an approval to carry them in external pods? Always someone in the ivory towers of Wellington trying to fark it up for us.


Aye, too true.  We know only too well that the greenies dont want us "cunters" anywhere near their precious view of utopia  (which is OUR public land).  You might sit on a precious mountain daisy ffs.

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## Brakelie

Put them in a sling?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## Maca49

Has there every been a recorded incident? Or just in the minds of office dwellers!?

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## Low box

Its apparently a civil aviation regulation, but they can carry them on a flight without passengers so if you plan your backloading you can get then into huts. (Fly a gas bottle in on the way to take a party out) so then there's a full gas bottle of the next party.

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## erniec

Us passengers are obviously more valued than helicopters pilots.

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## Maca49

Is it as risky as driving a car? Geeze where do these rules come from?

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## Mooseman

Cripes they might ban ammo on choppers too, that would make it hard to hunt, we would have to end up being bow hunters. Can't really see the difference in 4x gas canisters and a bottle both if they went off could cause a bit of damage.

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## Micky Duck

been the norm for years if packing for SAR etc you put cookers in seperate bag and TELL flight crew/pilot whats in them......that way if the smell of gas is detected mid flight you dont loose your whole pack,when they start chucking stuff out the door.

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## Cigar

> Cripes they might ban ammo on choppers too, that would make it hard to hunt, we would have to end up being bow hunters. Can't really see the difference in 4x gas canisters and a bottle both if they went off could cause a bit of damage.


Somehow I think 9kg of lpg has the potential to do more damage than 1kg (4x250g) of butane/propane...

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## 2post

> Somehow I think 9kg of lpg has the potential to do more damage than 1kg (4x250g) of butane/propane...


I agree that 9kg of LPG would do more damage but the bottle is made better, has a pressure relief valve, and is tested every 5 years. Much more likely to have a leak from the disposable cans.

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## Boaraxa

wonder how pilots get on carting speer avgas around in jerry cans now then.

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## outdoorlad

> wonder how pilots get on carting speer avgas around in jerry cans now then.


Don’t mention it to the CAA feds

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## Husky1600

CAA would have a shit fit if they saw what goes on in Canada! Ive seen a Beaver fly in to the lodge with about 20x9kg in the cabin with a whole heap of other stuff, and then the pilot proceeded to pull another 5 or 6 outa the floats. Seen hunters sitting across 2 of the 100kg bottles wedged in between gear on the floor. Seen a 9kg wedged sideways against a window, on top of all the gear in the back of a Cub.

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## ghosts

Is this just for choppers or fixed wing to?

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## Brevin

> Is this just for choppers or fixed wing to?


It will be choppers and fixed wing alike. Cunts Against Aviation tend to band shit like this completely across the board whenever it happens.

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## Sauer

This is nothing new, always have been strict regulations around carriage of dangerous goods on aircraft. Would appear it is now being enforced.

CAA doesn’t determine the dangerous goods regulations, IATA does. Individual aircraft operators will state in their company exposition how they are going to comply with these regulations (a lot of smaller operators say they won’t carry dangerous goods), and the CAA ensure they comply with their exposition.

Even the small gas canisters will be classified as dangerous goods, unless there is an exemption, and there won’t be for a compressed flammable gas. They certainly are banned from a commercial airliner, and I would be very surprised if they were permitted on anything smaller.

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## 7mmwsm

> Us passengers are obviously more valued than helicopters pilots.



Of course. Every kid wants to be a helicopter pilot when they grow. So there's heaps of them waiting for a spot, where as no kid wants to grow up to be a boring old passenger who has to pay to fly in one.

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## Sauer

I had a quick look in the regulations and it would appear that the smaller gas canisters have an exemption for an aircraft under 5700kg flying under Visual Flight Rules (most helicopters), but LPG is forbidden on an aircraft that carries passengers.

It appears it may be legal for LPG to be carried in a sling load under the helicopter.

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## Wildman

1kg of had canisters
5l of white sprits
5kg ammo
That's about it now

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## 300CALMAN

MSR with a Jerry can of diesel. Problem solved (except for the stench).

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## Wildman

5l of white sprits lasts a very very long time

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## Cigar

> 5l of white sprits lasts a very very long time
> 
> Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk


Really?
When I used 250ml to try and light a damp woodfire in a hut it only lasted about half a millisecond! By coincidence this was the same amount of time my eyebrows lasted!  :Zomg:

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## oneipete

Bakewell Burner, problem solved.

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## Sideshow

LPG would be worse on a boat as it would sit in the bottom of the hold with no where to go.
Come on on a chopper there's plenty of room for expansion  :Wtfsmilie: 
Next rule will be you need to wear a life jacket to dig ya swimming pool :XD:

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## Cordite

The elephant in the living room is that all this only becomes a problem if the helicopter or plane crashes and catches fire.

And that even this does not matter -- it's only saving on cremation fees for the corpses on board, and even here the contribution of a bit of propane is minuscule compared to the role of the aircraft fuel.

Aircraft are made to fly, they do not crash well.

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## Maca49

Banning loose overalls?

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## Cordite

> Banning loose overalls?


Yes, that was really crap news.  Sounded like the door/hatch was improperly closed, flew off, what was inside spilled out... and some loose overalls got to the tail rotor first.  A basic stowing error can kill you.

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## Moutere

> The elephant in the living room is that all this only becomes a problem if the helicopter or plane crashes and catches fire.
> 
> And that even this does not matter -- it's only saving on cremation fees for the corpses on board, and even here the contribution of a bit of propane is minuscule compared to the role of the aircraft fuel.
> 
> Aircraft are made to fly, they do not crash well.


Fire inflight is more the concern.
Flammable compressed gas leaking from a vessel and being ignited by poorly grounded electrics for example.

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## Brevin

Having 5x small combustible containers with a thin casing for a portable cooker are going to do more potential damage than a 9xLPG bottle with a thicker casing. A simple spray check would tell you if it was leaking and a cap installed should you wish to be on the safer side. 

You’ve got more to worry about if the chopper full of aviation fuel crashes than the rouge bottle in the back of the cabin... just bureaucracy going mad.

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## 38 South

The last amendment to Rule Part 92 - Carriage of Dangerous Goods is dated 22 June 2006, and the accompanying Advisory Circular (AC 92-2) was last amended on 27 April 2007 so I'm unsure as to the root of the recent changes as suggested. That said each individual Air Operator Certificate (AOC) holder has the right to determine how he applies the rule to his operations and may of course make those changes at any time.

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## Sauer

As you say, these are not recent changes, so something must have recently brought it to the attention of the CAA that operators were not complying with the law.

The Rule is pretty clear on this:  Refer 92.11(c)(2), LPG is listed in the Dangerous Goods list in the Technical Instructions as being forbidden for carriage by air in an aircraft that carries passengers.

Cannot see how an operator can apply this to his operation and still determine that it is permissible to carry LPG.

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## 38 South

Check the link below and ensure to go to the bottom of the table where the conditions are stated for the carriage of LPG on passenger aircraft in the circumstances as discussed in this thread. If the operator does not have CAA approved procedures to ensure compliance with these conditions designated in their exposition, or is not able to demonstrate compliance with those procedures, then they will not be able to exercise this privilege.

https://www.caa.govt.nz/passengers/d...s-lpg-bottles/

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## Tahr

Have just been told 1kg max of small butane bottles per load (flying into the Ruahines soon)

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## bigbear

Just had a email from a heli company down south we are flying in to say no more then 1L of gas 4x250ml

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## Woody

So DoC will have a great time prosecuting people for having cooking fires? Or do we all go for hex stoves and hard rations!

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## Cigar

> So DoC will have a great time prosecuting people for having cooking fires? Or do we all go for hex stoves and hard rations!


But you are allowed to have a fire for cooking or heat on DOC land, without needing a permit.

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## 223nut

> But you are allowed to have a fire for cooking or heat on DOC land, without needing a permit.


Sure about that... Think you will find it depends on what classification the land is under

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## Woody

Alan Simmons was taken to court when a doc DICK reported him for sitting by a lit fire. Last year sometime I think.

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## Tahr

> Alan Simmons was taken to court when a doc DICK reported him for sitting by a lit fire. Last year sometime I think.


DOC withdrew it in the end didn't they? Not that that made their actions any more sensible in the circumstances though.

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## Woody

Not sure. Poor fellow got put through the court hoops big time by DoC. I thought it ended up as a warning by the judge. However the debacle has caused a lot of disgust toward DoC as well as mistrust.

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## Cigar

> Sure about that... Think you will find it depends on what classification the land is under


The national parks apparently each have their own rules, but on other conservation land you can have a fire for cooking or warmth, unless it's a prohibited fire season. There are some rules though, such as being at least an hours walk from the road.
https://www.doc.govt.nz/our-work/fire/

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## bigbear

Had a email last night
"Finally have gotten to the bottom of this. You can take up to 4kg of the small 500ml LPG cooking cylinders. We can by no means take the big 9kg cylinders. So no need to have a campfire after all "
Iam happy don't need that much gas anyway

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