# Outdoors > Fishing >  Scallops top of the south season looking grim

## stingray

Scallop closures proposed in Nelson and Marlborough
Scallop closures proposed in Nelson and Marlborough | Stuff.co.nz

Myself close the whole lot any area left open will get flogged to bits. Give them a break for a couple of years.

----------


## mikee

> Scallop closures proposed in Nelson and Marlborough
> Scallop closures proposed in Nelson and Marlborough | Stuff.co.nz
> 
> Myself close the whole lot any area left open will get flogged to bits. Give them a break for a couple of years.


agree totally. I suspect the snapper fisherman are going to wee themselves too shortly. Rumor has it TAC will be increased for commercial guys and limits reduced to 7 or 5 snapper for us. I have also heard that the figures for total snapper catch in the Tasman Bay by recreational fishers make very interesting reading when compared to the total snapper catch for the whole of Challenger by the commercial guys. There are going to be some upset people  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## stingray

Would be good to back to the days of seeding the beds, user pays sort of thing. Like a boat ramp fee?

The only problem being when you set up some thing like that people start sucking the $ out with admin and bureaucracy, and it would be a step closer to a salt water license.

----------


## mikee

> Would be good to back to the days of seeding the beds, user pays sort of thing. Like a boat ramp fee?
> 
> The only problem being when you set up some thing like that people start sucking the $ out with admin and bureaucracy, and it would be a step closer to a salt water license.


Scllop Enhancement co used to seed for the commercial guys (they paid for it) and we "others" also got the benefit of it "on the side"
Don't think that will happen again. Most of the small guys are really struggling or  gone.

----------


## veitnamcam

They stopped seeding because it stopped working and it stopped working because the habitat is buried under a layer of fine mud from forestry and farming runoff mostly but all development is to blame.

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

----------


## veitnamcam

I also think total closure for at least one season  (as long as it is commercial and rec not just the rec guys taking the hit) Is a good idea let what is left breed and grow.

But if it is open I will be fishing for them. 

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

----------


## southernman

> They stopped seeding because it stopped working and it stopped working because the habitat is buried under a layer of fine mud from forestry and farming runoff mostly but all development is to blame.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk


 I would think that 50 plus years, of dragging dredges and bottom trawl nets, also has a great deal, to do with the current lack of good sea bed habitat.

----------


## mikee

> I also think total closure for at least one season  (as long as it is commercial and rec not just the rec guys taking the hit) Is a good idea let what is left breed and grow.
> 
> But if it is open I will be fishing for them. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk


Rumor I have heard was  if it closes then it will be a total closure to everyone.  I think that would make it easier to enforce and understand for everyone too. None of this you can go fish here but not just over there bollocks

----------


## veitnamcam

> I would think that 50 plus years, of dragging dredges and bottom trawl nets, also has a great deal, to do with the current lack of good sea bed habitat.


150 odd years you mean.
Tasman bay had massive mussel beds in it that were fished out years ago.
There has been feasibility studys done into dropping piles of shell into the bay to give mussels and oysters something to attach to to start filtering and cleaning the water again like they did in the early 1800s.
Would mean banning trawling and dredging in the area tho.
I am all for it.

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

----------


## Smiddy

> They stopped seeding because it stopped working and it stopped working because the habitat is buried under a layer of fine mud from forestry and farming runoff mostly but all development is to blame.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk


Absolutely correct
Forestry and farm run off, it's a mess under there,  the fish taste different in the sounds, I liken it to a muddy trout, west coast blue cod is much nicer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## stingray

I know they can grow scallop spat. So it needs a place to go. Beds that they have seeded successfully before. My home ground is okiwi do I'll stump up some cash to see scallops seeded through there again not once but three or four time to get beds refreshed and maintained...from there it becomes a maintaince programme. Seedling every second or third year. Does anyone know of a contact?

----------


## deer243

> agree totally. I suspect the snapper fisherman are going to wee themselves too shortly. Rumor has it TAC will be increased for commercial guys and limits reduced to 7 or 5 snapper for us. I have also heard that the figures for total snapper catch in the Tasman Bay by recreational fishers make very interesting reading when compared to the total snapper catch for the whole of Challenger by the commercial guys. There are going to be some upset people


Why are  they looking at reducing the Recreational take for? Numbers of snapper have at least doubled in recent years. i can see upset people if the commercial take increases and the Rec decreases. Gurnard are up even more, maybe 4 x the norm from a few years ago. plenty still being caught of delaware bay and snapper still being caught out there only last week

----------


## Bremic

It shits me that commercial fisherman are still able to catch fish for export, while recreational fisherman have limits reduced.

----------


## veitnamcam

> It shits me that commercial fisherman are still able to catch fish for export, while recreational fisherman have limits reduced.


You and me both.
It is our fishery (kiwis) and as far as I am concerned the commercial can have what is left after the rec get their share in a sustainable fashion.

Inshore fisherys are shared between rec and commercial and commercial have shown time and time again they will race to catch the last fish and have no care if they cause total collapse of the fishery only if they make the most money....after all if the reccys cant catch a fish anymore they will have to buy fish off of them and when they are no longer commercially viable...they just move on to the next species  :Slow:

----------


## mikee

> You and me both.
> It is our fishery (kiwis) and as far as I am concerned the commercial can have what is left after the rec get their share in a sustainable fashion.
> 
> Inshore fisherys are shared between rec and commercial and commercial have shown time and time again they will race to catch the last fish and have no care if they cause total collapse of the fishery only if they make the most money....after all if the reccys cant catch a fish anymore they will have to buy fish off of them and when they are no longer commercially viable...they just move on to the next species


My views are somewhat different but then to be fair as given my employment, I have a vested interest even though its in both camps . 

Currently there are very very few coms fishing the Tasman and Golden bays as they have no quota left. 

 I see the *same cars and trailers* parked at the ramp every day right thru the summer, with fish so plentiful what are they doing with it all??

If it turns out that the total weight of snapper taken in Tasman Bay by recreational fisherman exceeds the total snapper catch taken by the commercial guys for the whole of the Challenger Area would that be a surprise??  What about if its 3 times more caught by Rec's

----------


## veitnamcam

> My views are somewhat different but then to be fair as given my employment, I have a vested interest even though its in both camps . 
> 
> Currently there are very very few coms fishing the Tasman and Golden bays as they have no quota left. 
> 
>  I see the *same cars and trailers* parked at the ramp every day right thru the summer, with fish so plentiful what are they doing with it all??
> 
> If it turns out that the total weight of snapper taken in Tasman Bay by recreational fisherman exceeds the total snapper catch taken by the commercial guys for the whole of the Challenger Area would that be a surprise??  What about if its 3 times more caught by Rec's


You are assuming that they are catching snapper everyday.

I know for fact this is not the case.

----------


## veitnamcam

> My views are somewhat different but then to be fair as given my employment, I have a vested interest even though its in both camps . 
> 
> Currently there are very very few coms fishing the Tasman and Golden bays as they have no quota left. 
> 
>  I see the *same cars and trailers* parked at the ramp every day right thru the summer, with fish so plentiful what are they doing with it all??
> 
> If it turns out that the total weight of snapper taken in Tasman Bay by recreational fisherman exceeds the total snapper catch taken by the commercial guys for the whole of the Challenger Area would that be a surprise??  What about if its 3 times more caught by Rec's


Also* IF*       the rec  catch was 3 times the commercial how could the fishery be recovering as it obviously is?

----------


## veitnamcam

> My views are somewhat different but then to be fair as given my employment, I have a vested interest even though its in both camps . 
> 
> Currently there are very very few coms fishing the Tasman and Golden bays as they have no quota left. 
> 
>  I see the *same cars and trailers* parked at the ramp every day right thru the summer, with fish so plentiful what are they doing with it all??
> 
> If it turns out that the total weight of snapper taken in Tasman Bay by recreational fisherman exceeds the total snapper catch taken by the commercial guys for the whole of the Challenger Area would that be a surprise??  What about if its 3 times more caught by Rec's


And thirdly.

I have spent 9-10 years fishing commercially with the two biggest players, I know how the industry works.

----------


## mikee

> And thirdly.
> 
> I have spent 9-10 years fishing commercially with the two biggest players, I know how the industry works.


I think you might find it has changed a wee bit. Most of the rat bags have gone broke and only the biggest ratbags are left.

----------


## veitnamcam

> I think you might find it has changed a wee bit. Most of the rat bags have gone broke and only the biggest ratbags are left.


My point exactly.

----------


## deer243

> Also* IF*       the rec  catch was 3 times the commercial how could the fishery be recovering as it obviously is?


+1 Clearly the REC catch is no where near what the commercial guys get...just look at how the snapper fishery is recovering in the last few years.More so the gurnard fishery, its booming out there. Even if the fishery is that good at the present time that the quoto for commercial can be increased why decrease the Rec guys limit?  Image if it got reduced to say 5 snapper each, unless something was done about set lines etc it be a joke. I know many that are setting set lines and then fish by rod , theres going to be a waste of fish  for sure.  I would rather see the REC limit stay the same, certainly hasnt harmed the fishery in the slightest.
i be happy with a setline ban if the limit was reduced though.  let them catch them with abit of effort and quite often out there getting a few on the rods isnt hard most days(not them all thou  :Wink: )

----------


## mikee

For 2015 
TAC  ( total allowable catch ) for Challenger is 306 tons
TACC (total allowable commercial catch) for Challenger is 200 tons, leaving 100tons for Rec and Customary catch

This is for the whole challenger area

The ramp surveys conducted on numbers of snapper caught in Tasman Bay.
So if we are taking more fish from the bay than the comms are for all of area 7 then I think there may be changes we won't like.
I would be

----------


## Pengy

How regular are the fish counts on rec guys carried out ?

----------


## mikee

> How regular are the fish counts on rec guys carried out ?


thru the main part of the season I have een them there most weekends and most weekdays (this was last season) I used to watch them while eating my lunch  :Have A Nice Day: 

I'm not saying whose right or wrong but if we are taking a lot of fish from a small area then that can't be good and if the coms were doing it we would all be calling for blood

----------


## Pengy

I am not on either side of this one really, but have always been curious as to how they come up with figures for the rec catch. I have never known a fisheries officer to weigh a catch, for one thing. Educated guess work at best I reckon.
Comms catch on the other hand is reported

----------


## deer243

> thru the main part of the season I have een them there most weekends and most weekdays (this was last season) I used to watch them while eating my lunch 
> 
> I'm not saying whose right or wrong but if we are taking a lot of fish from a small area then that can't be good and if the coms were doing it we would all be calling for blood


Thats the thing mikee. The COMMERCIAL guys were raping it and people were calling for blood! After they got controlled and trawling too close to shore was stopped it took awhile but the fishery has recovered to be in the best state its been in since the 70s-early 80s..The REC catch hasnt been reduced, more people are catching alot more snapper and its improving every year...its a fact.
The commerical guys were raping the breeding stock, catching tons of big breeding snapper. Rec guys tend to return the breeding stock, 20lbers  arent as good eating as smaller ones.
One thing is for sure, the REC guys arent harming the big breeders like the commercial guys do. BIG Differnce
I remember in the early 80s my old man on a inshore trawler out here in the Bay, he took photos of the net floating to the surface full of snapper 20lb plus. The net was that full they towed it back to port and used a crane to lift it. it holed on the way and they used make shift gaffs with wood and nails to gaff huge snapper floating on the water. he came home with 3 fis between 22-26lb.
thats what fucked the fishery in nelson bays, its only now recovered ....REC guys will never fuck it. (plus snapper travel and even thou many are caught in the BAY they not living in the BAY all year, theres always snapper coming and going from a huge area.

----------


## mikee

> The COMMERCIAL guys were raping it and people were calling for blood


Um that was in the 80s and if things are finally recovering then that's a good thing and no one want to ruin that recovery. 

Snapper do live in the bay all year, you just need to know where to look eh, I have witnessed "us Recs" keeping everything they catch often. 

I witnessed one boat at the ramp last year with 6 people on-board and 60 snapper (among the other fish) all just legal size.  Moast of the folks I talked to that day had in their words "got their limit"

I have a foot in both camps with my job but neither side is squeaky clean and we need to  acknowledge that.

----------


## mikee

Here ya go,
nelson-marlborough-and-west-coast-could-see-snapper-catch-increase




> A proposal to increase snapper catch in the Top of the South has been applauded by Marlborough's recreational fishers.
> 
> The Ministry for Primary Industries proposed the total allowable commercial catch in the Top of the South, and most of the West Coast, be increased from 200 to 250 tonnes. 
> 
> The recreational catch in the area would be increased by 160 tonnes, from 90 tonnes to 250 tonnes.
> 
> Marlborough Recreational Fishers' Association president Peter Watson said he welcomed the review.
> 
> Watson said there were snapper fish in the outer Sounds but environmental factors, such as run-off from industries on the land and temperature change, were causing snapper not to venture further in. 
> ...

----------


## veitnamcam

> Here ya go,
> nelson-marlborough-and-west-coast-could-see-snapper-catch-increase


I am unclear on what is being said here?

Commercial catch is to increase from 200 to 250t?
I am ok with that if there is no other change but the article goes on with anecdotal blithering?
Will there be a bag limit of 5 in the bay?
I hope not....commercial catch should be zero before that happens.

I am not anti commercial....it was my living for ten years but the ability of any NZ citizen to catch a fish far out weighs in importance "sir are you fucking kidding me" Peter Talleys ability so buy out an entire valley for exclusive trout fishing rights IMO.

----------


## mikee

> I am unclear on what is being said here?
> 
> Commercial catch is to increase from 200 to 250t?
> I am ok with that if there is no other change but the article goes on with anecdotal blithering?
> Will there be a bag limit of 5 in the bay?
> I hope not....commercial catch should be zero before that happens.
> 
> I am not anti commercial....it was my living for ten years but the ability of any NZ citizen to catch a fish far out weighs in importance "sir are you fucking kidding me" Peter Talleys ability so buy out an entire valley for exclusive trout fishing rights IMO.


Recreational Tac is increasing by 160t to 250t same as comms BUT Marlborough Rec's want a 5 fish limit across the entire area as Nelson Fishos are catching their fish  :Have A Nice Day:  or thats how I read it anyway

----------


## veitnamcam

> Recreational Tac is increasing by 160t to 250t same as comms BUT Marlborough Rec's want a 5 fish limit across the entire area as Nelson Fishos are catching their fish  or thats how I read it anyway


Why the fuck would a Nelson fisho fish the sounds for snapper?
Even 20 years ago when Nelson was shit and the sounds was great it wasnt worth the drive and steam to fish the sounds for snapper.

----------


## mikee

> Why the fuck would a Nelson fisho fish the sounds for snapper?
> Even 20 years ago when Nelson was shit and the sounds was great it wasnt worth the drive and steam to fish the sounds for snapper.


I think they are meaning Durville rather than the sound

----------


## veitnamcam

> I think they are meaning Durville rather than the sound


Thats Nelson always has been.

----------


## deer243

Sounds to me that the marlbrough Rec spokesman Peter Waston is trying to just look after his own  patch and crying like a right tosser. Moaning about nelson people coming into 'theír 'so called patch and catching "their"snapper.  Everyone has the right to fish where ever they want, people from afar have always travelled to fish the sounds and surrounding areas but the fishery is fine here for snapper for people not to worry about going to the sounds to catch snapper. Hes  trying to blame nelson people and some other factors  for the state of the fishery in the sounds and its quite good for the marlbrough  Recs isnt it that he suggests that its a 5 snapper bag for the whole top of the south.
Hes not concerned about limting the catch for the fishery but more so that the sounds gets a increase to 5 from 3 and using the great catch rates here to have some sort of bs arguement.
Just recently there was a report out that was stating that the increase in snapper in the bay  but not a great increase at all in the sounds was down to two factors.
1 decrease in the commercal catch from past years.
2 Increase in water temp here in the Bay and not the same increase in water temp in the sounds.
Snapper prefer the warmer waters here in nelson hence better numbers than the sounds....

----------


## stingray

Sounds is out of bounds, this season. Golden bay and that side of the bay is still open.

http://www.mpi.govt.nz/document-vault/12963

----------


## veitnamcam

> Sounds is out of bounds, this season. Golden bay and that side of the bay is still open.
> 
> http://www.mpi.govt.nz/document-vault/12963


Thanks for the map I couldnt find it.

MPI website sucks balls.

----------


## stingray

Anyone got a batch in golden bay I / we can hire for a weekend ... I just want a feed ... One sweet BBQ of fresh scallops and good beer with great company.

----------


## R93

Is golden bay worth a dive mate? Never been up them ways diving.

I am bumbed and happy at the same time the Scollys will get a break in the sounds.

Apart from maybe a few snaps I doubt I will get up them ways this year 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

----------


## stingray

No idea to be honest.... Whispers say it is ... Am I keen ...Hell yes!

----------


## veitnamcam

> Anyone got a batch in golden bay I / we can hire for a weekend ... I just want a feed ... One sweet BBQ of fresh scallops and good beer with great company.


I might know someone but does anyone know where some scollops are? Did teracoie (spelling?) Ever recover from being strip mined by comercials?

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

----------


## Gapped axe

up our way ( Coromandel) we get paralytic shell fish poisoning, and that regulates the shell fish take. Been there once and not again

----------


## specweapon

Time to start scallop farming?

----------


## stingray

It being tried in varying forms from suspended cages on mussel line ,to trying to get sole access to a large chuck of the okiwi bed. They even went to the effort to lay a wire boundary of "their feild" and having divers clear out star fish from their patch. 

The was and I'm unsure if it is continued seeding of harvested comercial beds. Which was successful in part except for Tasman bay where the scallop spat and mussel spat was released in the same beds, then another attempt in Tasman bay but the bed it self is seems to be either toxic or so sedimented that the spat is being suffocated. 

Golden bay also has also being a fantastic bed, the word was that they reseeded the bed after a harvest season, then we had a hell spring storm which saw the river mouth a k wide pumping silt all over the new scallops . This could have buggered the bed anyway.. So it's anyone's guess. 

At present we stand in a circle all pointing fingers , blaming each other , forestry , dairying , comercial , amature, hell I've heard every argument, seen pine slash all over the boulder bank and Tahauna beach,  talked to the firt blokes who tell me of the tons of the stuff they put on Hort and dairy farms beside the waimea river and tributes, I've seen the size and weight of comercial dredges that have being dragged repeatedly through Tasman bay , and I've seen charter boats take 20 fishos out and pull a 1000 scallops a trip. As well as boats that limit day after day ,weekend after weekend heaping there scallops into the freezer ...( hand up here I've done it myself), And have being asked to help full tickets written by Maori wardens to take 3,4,5 hundred scallops...

My suggestions ..
closed season this year , and next, possibly a third.
A scallop permit, one of seasonal license..to pay for bed seeding. ( I hate this idea as well ..as soon as you have a pool of money you get noses in the trough sucking up the $ producing fuck all. ) and which beds when etc it just becomes a bloody nightmare.

Comercial divers rather than dredging .. Expensive ..hell yes .. But they become a premium product and demand a price accordingly... Problems ..black market and people want to enjoy a product they have always being able to afford. So will not support a change in harvesting.

Forestry slash is mulched after harvesting, this happens by law overseas ... A personal bug bear, that slash piles end up in our water ways and on beaches. Yes an added cost to forestry but but there are teams working through the slash recovering fibre now so why not go the whole hog and mulch the whole damn lot. 

Boat limits for amatures 100 scallops per boat. 

Change of rec and comercial season to August when the fish put on weight rather than the thin ones we harvest in July. 

Rant over ....just thoughts that's all.

Edit to add .. Seeding was quite successfull in the outer sounds , okiwi , and Waitata reach, my own personal attempts were not we had a bed that I and others worked over very hard for a couple of seasons it produced some fantastic scallops. Huge sweet clean meat., but we buggered it. I have on a number of times taken taken scallops from a shallow bed in fine sand / mud and hand placed them in this previously amazing bed ( but course sand but simalar depth) , with no success I wonder if the scallops cannot handle the change of sediment / current.

This also makes me wonder if the spat bring seeded cannot adapt the conditions they are placed in.

----------


## veitnamcam

I see Guytons advertising fresh North Island scollops  for sale.

----------


## veitnamcam

Fishing rules app updated.
Larger area closed....basically the whole top of South. 



Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

----------


## R93

> Fishing rules app updated.
> Larger area closed....basically the whole top of South. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk


Never bought scallops before. Might have to now.

I remember a mate in Haast had the biggest scallop shell I have ever seen and he was adamant it come from stewy island.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

----------


## veitnamcam

> Never bought scallops before. Might have to now.
> 
> I remember a mate in Haast had the biggest scallop shell I have ever seen and he was adamant it come from stewy island.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I have bought them but before I had a boat and when the wife's friend worked for the scollop enhancement company so got good deals  

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

----------


## stingray

Season two! I do believe they are pushing the panic button. Expect a season three!

----------


## R93

> Season two! I do believe they are pushing the panic button. Expect a season three!


I usually get up once a year for a swim.

Think I am alright with a 3 year closed season. Especially if it works.

Never struggled to find them tho in all the years I have been diving or dredging  for them.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

----------


## Gibo

Dredging should be banned imo, very destructive

----------


## R93

> Dredging should be banned imo, very destructive


Tend to agree. I don't own a dredge and don't know much about it always bluge off someone else when they go out😆

I can't see how dragging one along is any good for the bottom. Especially the commercial ones.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

----------


## veitnamcam

> Dredging should be banned imo, very destructive


Depending on the bottom type yes.

Sent from my SM-G390Y using Tapatalk

----------


## Gibo

Nah, just all of them  :Grin:

----------


## stingray

I believe that there needs to be a seeding / enhancement programme along side closed seasons. If you have a skeleton biomass, then survival / recruitment of spat may only cover the die off for that year. They need to target beds that have being successfully enhanced in the past ...Goldenbay  , out off Titarangi , not sure if Richmond or Kiutu were and yes okiwi, Tasman bay I'm hesitant about ..perhaps off the Glen in the sand at 60 - 80 ft /18-22 meters. In the Marine reserve at bark bay and off the Glen. But certainly not in the sludge in the middle of the bay. Out off Ruby bay and down by Adel Island where you have a settled firm bottom.This will give you a bio mass that is able to substain itself and increase due to the over all mass of spat being larger.
Hell even set up a give little page to fund it to gauge interest in seeing a programme like this undertaken. $1 for $1 with the government matching our commitment.

As an after thought, have the beds in these reserves ever being surveyed? There should be some sort of previous catch information for these areas and with them both being reserves for over 10 + years surely they would be an indicator of the actual situation weather it is fishing pressure or something else affecting the population.

----------


## stingray

Well folks ..I made a submission , a short season oct-dec( when the fish are in peak condition),  limit of 5 per fisher 40 per boat. So we can get a feed and if it effects the bio mass they can close it again next year and to their credit MPI are taking what we are saying onboard but family ....no deliciousness this season! 

Dear Stakeholder



The Minister of Fisheries, the Hon Stuart Nash, has decided to temporarily close the Southern Scallop fishery (SCA 7), including Port Underwood, from 15th July 2018.  

While recent surveys have shown scallop numbers in the area are starting to increase, they still remain low.  The closure provides a further opportunity for the scallop beds to recover to allow a sustainable fishery in the future.

The majority of submissions received during the consultation process agreed with a further period of closure. Submitters also agreed that when the fisheries re-open, significant changes will be needed to the fisheries management settings. 

Fisheries New Zealand acknowledges iwi, community and stakeholder support over the last few years while the fishery has been closed, and recognises the closure continues to impact all who have an interest in the fishery.

Fisheries New Zealand is establishing a multisector group to work on an agreed view of when the number of scallops have increased sufficiently to allow harvesting, and the rules that will be necessary to ensure that any harvest is sustainable.

Results of new scientific research into the fishery will be available later in the year, and this information will be used to guide future management of the scallop fishery.

For more information about the closure and updates on the fishery see the Fisheries New Zealand website: Temporary closure of the Southern Scallop (SCA 7) Fishery | MPI - Ministry for Primary Industries. A New Zealand Government Department.



Stuart Anderson

Director Fisheries Management

----------

