# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Richochet!!

## Dundee

I will leave every one hanging here............if all 7 basic rules were applied I guess you will still be in the shit?

I'm guessing rule 5 Check your firing zone.

Done checked...............Fuckn Richochet

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## baldbob

Window??

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## Rushy

One of the great Irish Tenors - Rick O'Shea.  Seriously though Dundee, they are dangerous as if it happens there is no knowing which direction the projectile might spin off in

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## Spook

Way back when we used to play at being soldiers in the school cadets the Mt Maunganui College rifle range was on the road to the Papamoa Domain. At each end of the range two outposts on high dunes were manned by two cadets in each and a red flag on a pole. Even though we were at 90 degree angle from the shooters using .303's it was amazing how many bullets went over our heads and one lifted sand from about two metres to one side of us. We were supposed to be keeping an eye out for anyone walking on the beach...stuff that we were digging ourselves deeper and when they opened up with the four bren guns we were shitting bricks.

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## veitnamcam

22lr is a shocker for it, you really notice just how many you get when you use subs!

I had a ricochet with the 308 a while back, zero check up a mates place. box in front of knob in padock ,soft ground, lush grass.
Boom Weeeeeooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww Fark! Good thing there is a big bloody ridge behind! furrow in ground about 3 foot long.
Promptly moved position to a steeper back stop!

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## Rushy

> 22lr is a shocker for it, you really notice just how many you get when you use subs!


Yep I have had a few whizz off over the years.  It gives you the shits when it happens.

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## CreepingDeath

Another thing I learned shooting long range s the tmbling effect. When I first started we out a big sheet of ply behind the gong so we could see were we were missing. We were calling hit on wood with the first couple shots but couldnt connect on steel. On closer inspection we found a torn up strip of grass around 20-30 meters infont of the target and sideways profiles of the bullets at random all over the ply. The bullets were hitting the ground and bouncing like a cricket ball a flying off into the distance. It was a safe setup but I had not experienced this before as normally theres a trench and bullet buried in the dirt. So ricochet can happen of the paddok floor and it doesnt have to be a hard surface.

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## Rushy

Thanks for that CD.  I will remember that when trying out my new rig (when it gets here soon).

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## baldbob

> Another thing I learned shooting long range s the tmbling effect. When I first started we out a big sheet of ply behind the gong so we could see were we were missing. We were calling hit on wood with the first couple shots but couldnt connect on steel. On closer inspection we found a torn up strip of grass around 20-30 meters infont of the target and sideways profiles of the bullets at random all over the ply. The bullets were hitting the ground and bouncing like a cricket ball a flying off into the distance. It was a safe setup but I had not experienced this before as normally theres a trench and bullet buried in the dirt. So ricochet can happen of the paddok floor and it doesnt have to be a hard surface.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


You sure u just didnt have to slow a twist wee creepy????? I think you might have and your twlling porkies!!!

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## mikee

Like this you mean

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## Munsey

I got shot last season while quail shooting on the hill . Waliking down a spur , when the birds flushed they flew away from me , the shooter below let rip as what he thought was safe . It would have been on flat ground , but half the pellets came my way . Not a nice position to be in,  and got one pellet in leg . Was bleeding but pellet never entered . Was a lesson for us all . The shooter was very embarrassed he shot me but never took into account the angle of hill , even though I was 20 yards behind the bird he shot . Shot guns are not exempt from richochet !

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## P38

I understand from the Engineer who surveyed our range that ricochets can occur off of most objects, especially when the angle of incidence is less than 30 degrees.
The direction of the ricochet is unpredictable so a large safe zone is required to accomidate this.

Bouncing like a cricket ball or skimming stones off of water is probally an acurate analogy for these ricochets.

We regulary see and hear ricochets off the dirt with most firearms in all calibres including Pistol, Rifle and Black Powder Rifles. 
Although we have noticed considerly more ricochets over this summer with the ground being so hard and dry.
We allow tracer rounds to be fire during the wetter winter months and I've seen these in 303 and 308 calibre ricochet off the 100m dirt mound and carry on in unpredictible directions including climbing straight up at about 30 degree angles for several hundered more meters before being lost from sight.

So despite some very large hills as backdrops and earth mounds the range was certified as if it was a flat range and the safe zone extends for 2.5 kms from the shooting mounds.

Cheers
Pete

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## CreepingDeath

Yea im sure was a 243 with 95 grn ssts and a 7mm08 with 139grn ssts once we sorted the data and got I dialing straight we were on steel everyshot. I was surprised too I had never seen this and its the only time its happened may have been the setup and angle but it happend with 2 different rifles and it happend multiple times . Im not saying its the norm but it can happen. Distance was 480 meters so not looong range but long.

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## Kiwi Greg

> By the time you get out to "long range" the projectile is coming down at quite a high angle. Less likely to glance off. Seems odd that a projectile would bounce off the ground intact and then still have enough ooomph to penetrate a sheet of ply. 
> 
> Im with Bob on this one. You sure those pills were stabilized?


Yep happens a lot.

Check out some of the vids of guys shooting LR/ELR on You Tube up in the deserts, pretty flat, splashes all over the show with some bouncing up into the steel.

I did it years ago in the evening with the 416 Barrett, didn't allow enough elevation at 750, the bullets landed in front of the 16mm Melamine target they dug a big furrow & smashed sideways into the Melamine smashing it but bouncing off. 

I finished shooting the five rounds, packed up, drove to the target & thought WTF, then saw a projectile in one of the furrows so picked it up, it was still warm after 10-12 mins, a 400 grain heatsink  :Have A Nice Day: 

If the bullets weren't stable it seems strange that they would be accurate enough to be near the target at a decent range

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## Hunt4life

> Like this you mean


Holy friggin crap!! Thanks for sharing that Mikee

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## Nibblet

I think the fact that 22lr subs don't have a heap of power behind them and that its easier to hear the whizz makes them so much worse. We had a heap of them from tree branches when shooting possums the other week. Sounds cool if not a little bit scary.

I have some 338 hornady 285gr hpbt projectiles if you want a handfull to try Rushy, when it finally arrives. Just PM if you want some freebees

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## Rushy

Thanks Nibblet

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## BRADS

Yep Ive had a 375 pill bounce of the ground  about a foot in front of the gong and go fully sideways into the gong at 1800yards :Wtfsmilie: 
Worst ricochet was with a 223 on hard ground missed the rabbit bullet bounced and hit one of me sheep about 300 yards away, scared the fark out of me.

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## Nibblet

> Yep Ive had a 375 pill bounce of the ground  about a foot in front of the gong and go fully sideways into the gong at 1800yards
> Worst ricochet was with a 223 on hard ground missed the rabbit bullet bounced and hit one of me sheep about 300 yards away, scared the fark out of me.


Geebiz! Hoggart for dinner afterwards?

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## BRADS

Yep there was actually :Have A Nice Day: 
Worst part was the wife was watching as I confidently say watch this......

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## Toby

Did it kill the sheep in one hit?

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## Nibblet

> Yep there was actually
> Worst part was the wife was watching as I confidently say watch this......


Always the case with an audience. That one round ended up a bit pricey then. At least hoggart tasty

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## phillipgr

Anybody had any dodgy moments when dispatching a wounded animal at close range?

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## CreepingDeath

Sort of. Shot a beast on the farm but the mate had loaded the mag with whatever was lying around first shot was a sub bounced off luckily the cow just looked at me like wtf? Second shot was a normal round and dispatched it quickly

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## Nibblet

There was that dude in Helensville I think it was, homekill dude, shot the beast and it came back and shot his apprentice in the shoulder.
Think he ended up getting done for it.

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## Rushy

> There was that dude in Helensville I think it was, homekill dude, shot the beast and it came back and shot his apprentice in the shoulder.
> Think he ended up getting done for it.


The apprentice was lucky not to have died.

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## Spook

Brother in law was hunting with a mate, they were about 10 metres apart and as they approached a clearing mate shot a stag, stag dropped and mate rushed forward without reloading. Mate was watching where his feet were landing and did not see stag jump to it's feet so bil shot stag, at the gunshot mate spun to see what was happening and dropped to the ground. Bil thought he had stumbled but in fact bullet had entered pelvis of stag and turned on the bone and as mate had turned towards him at the sound of the gunshot bullet went through upper thigh and exited giving his cock a savage burn...not a happy chap.

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## Dundee

One of our team shot a fukn expensive rabbit on way back from duckshooting with a 12guage steel cartridge. 30 metres away was a tractor in a shed the rabbit was dead and so was this :Wtfsmilie:

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## Maca49

Christ DD how high was the tractor? I got my doubts about you

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## BRADS

> One of our team shot a fukn expensive rabbit on way back from duckshooting with a 12guage steel cartridge. 30 metres away was a tractor in a shed the rabbit was dead and so was this
> 
> Attachment 9429


Bugger me thinks that was a costly rabbit :Have A Nice Day:

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## mikee

At least the limit for tractors is only ONE but you would need a hell of a retreiver!!!

Bugger dosn't quite cover that picture

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## madjon_

Blue ones deserve to die

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## veitnamcam

Oh shit! Not yours i take it which makes it worse!
Hope he or she is paying !

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## Dundee

Yeah I friggen hope we get some money to cover that. I didn't shoot either.

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## moonhunt

Get black vivid and write rule 5 on forehead  :Thumbsup:

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## P38

> One of our team shot a fukn expensive rabbit on way back from duckshooting with a 12guage steel cartridge. 30 metres away was a tractor in a shed the rabbit was dead and so was this
> 
> Attachment 9429


Ouch!

Looks expensive Dundee.

How many KGs of fur do you need to cover that one?

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## Dundee

> Ouch!
> 
> Looks expensive Dundee.
> 
> How many KGs of fur do you need to cover that one?


Don't know the cost yet but its not coming out of my fur account,not my shot and not my tractor :Sad:

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## 7mmsaum

The glass doors on our NH tractors are $3000 each.

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## P38

> Don't know the cost yet but its not coming out of my fur account,not my shot and not my tractor


No worries then.  :Thumbsup: 

I bet the tractor owner isn't too happy.

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## moonhunt

If it makes you feel better my 14yr old and his mate did 3k damage to 2 teachers cars, only took them one viewing of dukes of hazards and the rest was there imagination...

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## Dundee

> The glass doors on our NH tractors are $3000 each.


That will make somebody unhappy

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## dogmatix

Years ago when I first got my license, I was shooting on a friends farm out at Whitford (backs onto forest) with my .22 (shooting subs).
Took a shot on a running hare (shooting away from forest), missed, a round hit a wire fence, did almost a 135 degree turn and went back over my head into the forest. 

No worries I thought (after the scare to me) until a mounbtain biker came out 30 min later and accused me of shooting at him.
He calmed down once I told him what had happened, but I still could have been in the sh*t.

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## Survy

Well I guess you can point the pill in the direction you want it to go, weather it gets there is another thing

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## Nasty Factory Trigger

Nothing shows richochet's better than tracer...   I couldnt believe the volume of them bouncing  - twas a fairly steep backstop too! man, did they fly in all directions, pretty much covered all the points on the clock - good thing we were in the open of course...  .303, .308... not .22, which are notorious for bouncing...   must see if i have some vid..

One attempt years ago to cull sheep, had one bounce..   Gave me the shits!  

And have had to help pay for a paint job on a bonnet and a replacement window - Chinese Ball ammo.

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## veitnamcam

Not all of what you are seeing with tracer is what it seems. The the tracer compound and molten lead come out of the bum when it impacts and can and will fly any  where while the actual projectile stays put a lot of the time.

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## Nasty Factory Trigger

fair comment on the molten parts - though revisting the video of said sporting event - im pretty sure some are flying away, pretty quickly!!     Damn, that was a good weekend!!!  sigh...

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## mikee

I gotta get me one of these, incl the chopper.


Not sure if I could afford to actually use it but way cool.

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## Rushy

> I gotta get me one of these, incl the chopper.
> 
> 
> Not sure if I could afford to actually use it but way cool.


Oh yeh baby. That is the shit

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## Kiwi Sapper

[QUOTE=mikee;113030]Like this you mean..........video=youtube_share;0ABGIJwiGBc]http://youtu.be/0ABGIJwiGBc[/video

Well bugger me! I always have considered a ricochet could not come back to the point of origin, but you have just corrected me.

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## P38

> I gotta get me one of these, incl the chopper.
> 
> 
> Not sure if I could afford to actually use it but way cool.


Gau Gattiling guns are where it's at thats for sure.

Some of the ordanance for the GAU-8 costs over $30us/round .... work that out at 4000 rounds/minute. 

The can also go through a tonne of ammo in a few short minutes.

Be bloody awesome to have a go with a few 10 second busts while hanging out of the chopper.

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## Dundee

Well this Ricochet that cost a mans eye seem a bit far fetched,my opinion only.

Shot ricochet off duck blamed for hunter losing an eye | Stuff.co.nz

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## R93

Far fetched but believable considering it was steel shot and the evidence or lack of it, by no other pellet strikes to the immediate area. 

On 1 news now.

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## hotbarrels

I personally saw a fellow hunter get hit by two lead pellets ricocheted off a gooses wings. One went through his ear leaving a nice hole and the other lodged just under his rib cage.

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## Dundee

> Far fetched but believable considering it was steel shot and the evidence or lack of it, by no other pellet strikes to the immediate area. 
> 
> On 1 news now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Bugger just got in missed the news,no pellets left my gun again on a really windy shitty cold night.

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## veitnamcam

> I personally saw a fellow hunter get hit by two lead pellets ricocheted off a gooses wings. One went through his ear leaving a nice hole and the other lodged just under his rib cage.


That would tickle!. 

Its a no brainer that a round ball at relatively low velocity will ricochet if striking a firm surface at an obtuse angle lead or steel

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## gonetropo

i was hit by a 22lr ricochet. it bloody hurts i can tell you

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## 300CALMAN

Steel shot is probably the worst I have seen.  Try a low angle shot off your pond next time (Obviously only if safe).

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## hotbarrels

We used to shoot bowling pins at three gun with the shotgun. Had to stop doing it because of steel shot bouncing back and hitting the shooter. Lead seemed to be ok but it wasn't worth the risk.

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## Maca49

Got hit on the cheek a couple of weeks ago shooting black powder with a few at the range, steel gongs, chunk of lead hit me on the cheek, no damage, but it stung a little. Gotta wear glasses at the range!! :Sad:

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## Boaraxa

Interesting about the shot not being round maybe that's why iv been missing ! , id say the bloke getting hit is 2 fold 1 the ricochet & 2 having the maimai,s so close 47 meters fark that.

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## Micky Duck

Ive been hit by airgun pellet that hit wooden target at 25 yards then came back to us...very soft lead they are too.
head shot big ram in woolshed with .12ga solid and the plurry thing bounced all around the walls after dealing to the silly baabaas brains coming to rest close to my leg....funny how it didnt fall through grating. didnt do that again,faaarkin hard on the ears too,took to smacking them on the noggin with the emery spanner after that.lol.

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## kotuku

Ive witnessed steel shot rattle off the wing feathers of swans at ellesmere-most bloody disconcerting-hoped they'd come a little closer so i could use the shotty like a softball bat and clobber em outta the sky -no such luck.
seen more than one.22 screech off into the wild blue yonder having struck water or stones. definitely grundies filling i must say.
working in the butts details at wes tmelton rifle range in my TF army days was also buttock clenching when rounds smashed into the concrete cover before slamming through fig11 targets sideways or as happened a couple of times smashing it in half with the top rapidly landing on my swede!!

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## 300CALMAN

One thing I must say is I haven't had a ricochet with 17 grain HP .17hmr yet. Those little pills seem to explode on a blade of grass!

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## Beetroot

> One thing I must say is I haven't had a ricochet with 17 grain HP .17hmr yet. Those little pills seem to explode on a blade of grass!


I've always wanted to do some testing on how explosive 17hmr, in respect to it's tendency to ricochet (or not).

I wonder if the Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets ever ricochet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSe8N0jBXhs

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## Maca49

I fire my 17hmr at a rabbit about 100 metres away, down hill from the bipod one day. Lined it up, bang, no reaction, no sign of ground strike, fired a second, same result. Then realised there was the odd piece of dry grass in the firing line, close to the barrel. Cleared the way and third shot, dead rabbit. I think the projectile exploded on hitting the grass? After two shots a no reaction, I figure they didn't get ther?

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## Beetroot

> I fire my 17hmr at a rabbit about 100 metres away, down hill from the bipod one day. Lined it up, bang, no reaction, no sign of ground strike, fired a second, same result. Then realised there was the odd piece of dry grass in the firing line, close to the barrel. Cleared the way and third shot, dead rabbit. I think the projectile exploded on hitting the grass? After two shots a no reaction, I figure they didn't get ther?


I think an experiment is definitely in order!
I'll do my best but don't hold your breath for me too do one any time soon though, my laziness and procrastinating abilities are very high.

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## Maca49

Yep I have managed to break fence wire with it on a few occasions, but you hear that!

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## 300CALMAN

> Yep I have managed to break fence wire with it on a few occasions, but you hear that!


Ouch, Hope I don't manage that or might not be invited back.

Yes a 17hmr ricochet test would be great. I am such a procrastinator/lazy that I wont be doing one.

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## kotuku

> Gau Gattiling guns are where it's at thats for sure.
> 
> Some of the ordanance for the GAU-8 costs over $30us/round .... work that out at 4000 rounds/minute. 
> 
> The can also go through a tonne of ammo in a few short minutes.
> 
> Be bloody awesome to have a go with a few 10 second busts while hanging out of the chopper.


gentlemen _Im a great fan of the A10 warthog as a solution to all hunting dilemmas.Expensive -yes ill grant you that ,but where else can you get a weapon that  tags ,shags and bags em all in one operation. OOOOOOOOHShit -hold on CAA knocking on my front door :Psychotic:

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## MaW

I got my first one a couple months ago, I was about 20 degrees to the side and behing someone shooting steel with their 38 super race gun.   So I was probably 25M from steel.   Got me right of the left pec a couple centimeters from the blimmin nipple  :Have A Nice Day:    Hurt like hell but at least I could consider myself lucky it wasn't a tad over.

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## zimmer

Now this has appeared Fish and Game manager defends report saying shot can ricochet off ducks | Stuff.co.nz

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## Maca49

Looking at replacing 50 metre swinging gongs at the Black Power range, had a piece of 1" bisaloy on trial last shoot, hung on two shackles, no chain. Shooting a 223 at it, there was a lack of movement on hitting and real ricochet danger. Current gongs dor BP shooting are swung off horizontal galv pipe, approx 4" long hinge to plate, these swing well and deflect projectile downwards. Anybody got any other ideas to stop the boredom?

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## hotbarrels

> Looking at replacing 50 metre swinging gongs at the Black Power range, had a piece of 1" bisaloy on trial last shoot, hung on two shackles, no chain. Shooting a 223 at it, there was a lack of movement on hitting and real ricochet danger. Current gongs dor BP shooting are swung off horizontal galv pipe, approx 4" long hinge to plate, these swing well and deflect projectile downwards. Anybody got any other ideas to stop the boredom?


All steel targets should be BIS500/AR500, arranged so that the impact face is square to the shooting position, and leaning forward at the top of the target, 20deg off vertical, to ensure that the bullet splatter is directed towards the ground and minimise the chance of a ricochet.  Keep bullet speed (regardless of calibre) below 900m/sec if you want to keep your plates in good condition (not a problem for black powder)

To stop boredom:
1. stop shooting black powder (rate of fire is way too slow to be fun)
2. use live reactive targets (we need to import and release some ground hogs and some Meerkats!)

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## Maca49

> All steel targets should be BIS500/AR500, arranged so that the impact face is square to the shooting position, and leaning forward at the top of the target, 20deg off vertical, to ensure that the bullet splatter is directed towards the ground and minimise the chance of a ricochet.  Keep bullet speed (regardless of calibre) below 900m/sec if you want to keep your plates in good condition (not a problem for black powder)
> 
> To stop boredom:
> 1. stop shooting black powder (rate of fire is way too slow to be fun)
> 2. use live reactive targets (we need to import and release some ground hogs and some Meerkats!)


I read that with interest until #1. #2 we use live pigeons for shotgun in the avo!
Under 900 FPS is a bit ask, my double does 1900 FPS and the 45/70 gets up there.
Thanks for the help on the above.  :Thumbsup: 
Sorry see your a metric man, just trebbled my speed!
Will take this to the range and try it. 50 metres is far for stuff to come back!

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## timattalon

> I read that with interest until #1. #2 we use live pigeons for shotgun in the avo!
> Under 900 FPS is a bit ask, my double does 1900 FPS and the 45/70 gets up there.
> Thanks for the help on the above. 
> Sorry see your a metric man, just trebbled my speed!
> Will take this to the range and try it. 50 metres is far for stuff to come back!


Speed in the quoted post is 900 Metres per second unless he made a typo. That is 2900fps or thereabouts....

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## hotbarrels

> Speed in the quoted post is 900 Metres per second unless he made a typo. That is 2900fps or thereabouts....


No typo.  I had (but currently cannot find ....??) a very detailed report from trials done in the USA on AR500 plate damage done with various caliber and projectile design.
The conclusion was that the caliber and bullet design had little to do with the level of plate damage, it was all about speed.  They discovered that a .223 with a 50gr PSP projectile traveling at over 3,200fps was more damaging to the surface of the target than the likes of a 140gr .308 doing 2,700fps.  The most damage from what they tested on the day was a .22-250 with 50gr doing 3,700's fps.
Only exception to this was larger caliber, heavy round nose projectiles that dented the plate rather than cratered it as the high speed projectiles did.

So, rule of thumb, don't let anyone shoot at your AR500 plate with anything with a MV above 3,000fps (900m/s round figures).

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## Maca49

When shooting pure lead projectiles at 1000 + FPS , nobody uses metres? Suppose dressmakers among us would use CMs?
Splatter of the projectiles sometimes sees small fragments of lead slowly coming back, you can watch them. They usually do not get back 50 metres unles in a high convolute. Heavy plates do not swing and are hard to see the hit on for old broken buggers like use, they don't seem to ring like with jacketed projectiles.

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## Beetroot

> Now this has appeared Fish and Game manager defends report saying shot can ricochet off ducks | Stuff.co.nz


So it wasn't me missing all those ducks then, it was the shot ricocheting. 
I knew I wasn't that bad of a shot.

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