# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  25-06 why hasn't it achieved fame and success in New Zealand?

## Rock river arms hunter

I've been pondering this for a while and after nailing a big bodied 8 point red stag at 170m with a 117gr federal power shok load recently, I've been seriously asking myself and drilling my brain..... why isn't it more popular?

Is it that its overshadowed by the .270,308/708 and its smaller rival the 243?or is it just that there's a lack of hunters whom use it and as such leading to its lack of familiarity?

or is it that 25cal has never really caught on in New Zealand sadly like the 257 roberts?

.25-06 Remington

have a read of that and see what the Americans think of it....

In my opinion,my dead serious opinion its without a doubt the best bang for your buck,minimal recoil at best,kills effeciently,flat shooting,good bullet selection,widely available and covers the species we have here with ease....

Please go ahead and offer your thoughts

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## mattdw

I'd never heard of it until my uncle put me onto it the other day looks so perfect for my needs (one caliber to rule them all, from wallabies to stags) that I went out and ordered one.

I am told that it really needs a 24" barrel to get the best out of it, which limits you to only a couple of models of rifle, and it is a little hard to find. Probably helps keep it in its niche.

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## Bulltahr

> why isn't it more popular?


AAAAhhhhh says who? I know several guys with one, including myself. They were very popular about 15 years ago, just before the short mag fad. What fad are we in at the moment............ I would say 300 and 7 mm wildcats. Next fad, who knows?

 :Thumbsup:

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## gimp

> flat shooting,good bullet selection



From my perspective, these are the problems:

Flat shooting: Not actually a real thing.

Good bullet selection: It doesn't.

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## crnkin

Agreed. It's trajectory is terrible, and shit selection of bullets.

In saying that if all I had was a 25-06 I wouldn't sit around crying about it.

Chris

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## sneeze

> I've been pondering this for a while and after nailing a big bodied 8 point red stag at 170m with a 117gr federal power shock load recently, 
> Please go ahead and offer your thoughts


I think lot of guys early in there hunting years  often think the same with whatever caliber or rifle brand they start having success  with. New Zealand game can comfortably  be taken with a wide range of rifles, cal and bullets so what makes a 25-06 any better or worse  than the others? nothing really its just one of many options that within its limitations works just like all the rest.As to why its not as popular well who really cares? I dont base my buying decisions on opinion polls I buy what I want.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Yes it does require a 24" barrel,you loose about 70fps for every inch but its the sort of calibre that wants to be reloaded for even though I don't, so Sako's,brownings?rugers and remingtons off the top of my head.... In saying that though the above mentioned all make quality rifles suitable for most needs these days so you can't go wrong....

When you say terrible bullet selection are you saying that as in a comparison to 30 cal/7mm or is that a generalisation?
And by a terrible trajectory also being compared against what?

well yes I do have a bias towards it and I'm not going to Lie about it, I'm a firm believer in being confident in your ability to shoot a particular firearm accuratley thus bullet placement comes second nature.... It was the first larger centrefire that I could shoot confidently and as such love it for that alone....

Cheers for the criticism's!  :Have A Nice Day:

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## RimfireNZ

A lot of calibers are much of a muchness. I don't know much about the 25-06 admittedly, but that's an awful big case to fill with less powder than a 7mm-08 takes.

You put it in the same category as .270,308/708 and saying it's smaller rival is the 243 when due to the bullet weight range (75-120g right?) and the unimpressive speeds they come out at I would think the .243 is a fairly apt comparison.

The 308/7mm-08 shoot much much larger bullets, faster, out of a short action rifle. Plus they're common as anything. All of that added up would make me think there are much better choices for me out there.

But each to their own, and if you're dropping animals with it, it's hard to argue with that aye?

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## Rock river arms hunter

Well thats the thing,it is commonly and regularly compared the the 308-708 and 270 by most people....

the 3006 isn't super duper common down here but then again ask anyone whose shot game with it and generally speaking they can only say good things.....

If anything being that it was developed using bullets designed for the .257 Roberts it is a magnum version in that sense..

Yes commonality seems to be the big thing, 308-708,270,243,300wm,223 and 7mm rem mag seem to be the most popular centrefires and as such demand creates the market... its Just a shame it hasn't caught on but hey It drops em good and it doesnt destroy the meat on the animal from experience.....

I think the commonality here is:simple things that work effectively... correct?

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## Beavis

If you do the clickety dialing thing it probably doesn't really matter a damn what cartridge you choose, within reason. People that don't do that will never know the difference. Just get a damn rifle and go hunting. These threads make my head hurt.

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## gimp

For my uses, and this is strictly for my uses:


I see no reason for me ever to consider a .25 calibre. The highest BC (conventional design - not monolithic, commonly available), bullet available in .25 cal is the 115gr Berger VLD, with a G1BC of .466. Out of a .25-06, you can get maybe 3200fps from that, max.

In a factory rifle, I can simply buy a 6.5x55 or .260, and shoot a 140gr Amax, or Berger, or 139gr Scenar, or 142gr SMK, or... well you get the picture - any number of bullets with a G1BC of around .6, at 2700-2900fps. There is a Norma factory load shooting a 130gr VLD with a BC of .57 or so, at 2950fps.

The significantly higher BC of the 6.5mm bullet means that it catches up with the .25 cal bullet very quickly, in every metric: impact velocity, impact energy (more so, due to higher bullet weight), less wind drift, less drop, it also has more fractionally more frontal area. Ballistically it's no competition. "Flat shooting" is a much-used term that doesn't actually mean anything. At "normal hunting" ranges, there's no significant real-world difference in trajectory between most mainstream hunting calibres. At longer range, a slower, higher BC bullet will actually often have less drop anyway, not that it is relevant because drop is very easy to compensate for, with modern ballistics knowledge and rangefinders.

In terms of recoil, the numbers are much the same. In fact, if you compare my 6.5x47 load (140gr Amax, 2790fps, 42gr of powder) to a random .25-06 load I pulled off the internet(115gr bullet, 3200fps, ~54gr of powder), you'll find that the .25-06 actually has slightly more recoil, and a slightly faster recoil impulse - which is what makes recoil unpleasant.

And, to top it off, as you've noted the .25-06 isn't as efficient, and cutting the barrel short results in a larger loss of velocity. I'm getting that 2790fps from my 6.5x47 from a 20" barrel. You could cut a .25-06 barrel to 20" but you'd get a significant muzzle flash and a lot of noise, and you'd lose speed - not that the loss of speed would be real-world significant to normal "hunting" results, it would simply invalidate the purported reasoning behind selecting the .25-06 in the first place.


In a custom rifle, a .243 properly loaded will outperform the best .25-06 load ballistically, and various 6.5mm and 7mm cartridges do too, however some of them have downsides not present with the moderate cased 6.5mm cartridges, such as increased recoil, shorter barrel life, less efficiency etc.


For the "average" hunter, who doesn't understand ballistics, who doesn't shoot long range and doesn't fire enough rounds to care about things like efficiency, economy, barrel life etc, it's absolutely fine, although I have to question the wisdom of actively selecting it over pretty much anything else, if given the choice.

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## gimp

That's my effortpost for the week. Any subsequent responses will be sarcastic in nature.

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## crnkin

Ive never seen you type so much truth....

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## baldbob

It has nothing to do with BC.... Very few shooters need worry about BC... Even a longranger need not worry about BC until 500m or more.... Sure if you shoot shit far out, and stuff all of use actually do....

Lack of popularity of the .25cal in my mind has stuff all to do with its longrange characteristics or available pills... it has more to do with it being overshadowed by other cals.... .270 has shit BCs but is if not "the" most popular cal in NZ.... You have to remember the current LR fad has only been round a few years hunting and calibres has been around much longer....

So really to ascertain why it isnt a really popular calibre we have to look at all and every hunting style as a whole.... 
Not a BC inducing fad involving a small percentage of us, .270 proves that....

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## gimp

> It has nothing to do with BC.... Very few shooters need worry about BC... Even a longranger need not worry about BC until 500m or more.... Sure if you shoot shit far out, and stuff all of use actually do....
> 
> Lack of popularity of the .25cal in my mind has stuff all to do with its longrange characteristics or available pills... it has more to do with it being overshadowed by other cals.... .270 has shit BCs but is if not "the" most popular cal in NZ.... You have to remember the current LR fad has only been round a few years hunting and calibres has been around much longer....
> 
> So really to ascertain why it isnt a really popular calibre we have to look at all and every hunting style as a whole.... 
> Not a BC inducing fad involving a small percentage of us, .270 proves that....


Ah, I see you didnt actually read my post. Specifically, the first sentence.

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## veitnamcam

When I was a teenager I had a real hankering for a 25/06 ,must have been a fairly new cal then or at least not many people seemed to have heard of it. But the old man said "what the hell do you want one them for? whats wrong with your 308?" and he had a point.
Hence 20 odd years later I upgraded to another 308,If for no other reason than its a cartridge I had plenty of experience with.

These days its probably not as popular as it could/should be because of the pill selection and the modern day obsession with long range

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## Beavis

I use to be in the same camp Tussock RE .270. It was the first caliber I shot a deer with and the guys that got me into deer hunting all used them. I bought into the "flat shooting, hard hitting thing". My mates or mate I should say bagged on calibers like .308 and .243 so much that it made me feel like my dick would fall off if I shot at a deer with one. Fast forward 6-7 odd years and I've just started hand loading for it and wishing I had a smaller, more efficient cartridge. It's a powder hungry sucker.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Ahhh yes the numbers you say....

I had developed recoil flinch going from  a 17hmr which dad bought as the first firearm in the house and going to a 7-08 tikka,I missed 3 deer as a result on a guided deer hunt and after that I decided that dad and I could simply not use the 1 tikka, he could shoot sub MOA with it!and still does..... 

so based on that I was after something abit easier on the shoulder,so i was looking at 243's and similar calibres when someone.... I can't remember who or where suggested the 25-06, we had a look at chuck hawks rifle recoil table and noted that there was 1 lb or so of recoil diff between the deer loadings, the 25-06 has superior energy at range,goes quicker and for something to use to 450m like to buy one deer rifle it fitted the bill nicely, Dad got me a howa 1500 with a 22" barrel(I know) millspec coated and gw supressed with the hogue grey stock and I could shoot sub inch groups with it confidently so I'm partly thankfull because it cured my flinch....

Since then I've bought a sako 75 in 25-06 and swapped the supressor over from the howa and popped a vx 3 4.5-14x40 B&C.... 

I'm tall and essentially built like a greyhound so hence the recoil affecting me,being 19 I'm yet to fill out but am going to the gym and eating protein and carbos to help it along....

So based on that and the fact that my sako loves federal power shok 117gr's which are cheap and effective I can't fault it for my needs, yes its not a 6.5/7mm so it doesn't get the super BC bullets but for what I'm after as a meat hunter and someone who is confident to 400m its ideal...

.25-06 Remington

Nathan has great info on most calibres and again he reiterates what I mean by minimal recoil with effective energy levels

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## baldbob

> Ah, I see you didnt actually read my post. Specifically, the first sentence.


  I had read that... And I was just expressing my opinion aside from that....  :Have A Nice Day:

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## gimp

> I had developed recoil flinch going from  a 17hmr which dad bought as the first firearm in the house and going to a 7-08 tikka,I missed 3 deer as a result on a guided deer hunt and after that I decided that dad and I could simply not use the 1 tikka, he could shoot sub MOA with it!and still does..... 
> 
> so based on that I was after something abit easier on the shoulder,so i was looking at 243's and similar calibres when someone.... I can't remember who or where suggested the 25-06, we had a look at chuck hawks rifle recoil table and noted that there was 1 lb or so of recoil diff between the deer loadings, the 25-06 has superior energy at range,goes quicker and for something to use to 450m like to buy one deer rifle it fitted the bill nicely, Dad got me a howa 1500 with a 22" barrel(I know) millspec coated and gw supressed with the hogue grey stock and I could shoot sub inch groups with it confidently so I'm partly thankfull because it cured my flinch....
> 
> Since then I've bought a sako 75 in 25-06 and swapped the supressor over from the howa and popped a vx 3 4.5-14x40 B&C....


Okay, effortposting again.

For a start, you've gone from a very light rifle in 7mm08 to 2 much heavier ones in .25-06. This alone will have given you a mistaken idea of the 'light recoil' of the .25-06. It's not a valid comparison, especially when you add a suppressor into the equation - and a heavy one.

In identical rifles, a 7mm08 shooting 140gr bullets will have very similar recoil characteristics to a .25-06 shooting 117-120gr projectiles. Subjective experience doesn't get around facts, and your experience with lighter recoil in .25-06 is due to the rifle and suppressor, not any inherent property of the cartridges.

2 max loads, 7mm08 and .25-06 from the ADI handloaders manual, selected for best speed and load density for the projectile weight for each cartridge.

7mm08
140gr bullet
AR2209, 48.0gr, Compressed load
2870fps


.25-06
117gr bullet
AR2225, 60.5gr, Compressed load
3080fps

Per A random recoil calculator using a "7lb rifle":

                                                   7mm08                          .25-06

Recoil Impulse in (lbs sec):                  2.63                             2.67

Velocity of recoiling firearm (fps):         12.12                           12.29

Free recoil energy in (ft/lbs):                15.96                          16.43


As you can see, the .25-06 has very similar recoil characteristics to the 7mm08 using typical loads - actually slightly faster and heavier recoil. 

Of course, your factory ammunition won't be this exact load, and is likely to be going somewhat slower than that, and it all varies with projectile weight. You could buy 7mm08 ammunition loaded with 120gr bullets and it would have far less recoil than 120gr bullets from  .25-06, as the .25-06 uses a lot more powder.

In addition I'd suggest that shooting technique possibly was a large factor with your flinch. Do you wear ear protection when shooting?




Back to the original question of why it's not more popular:

I doubt it's due to any inherent flaws in the cartridge, it's just a matter of what catches on and what is pushed by stores on people who lack the ability to think for themselves. Look at .22mag for example - there wouldn't have been a single one sold since the .17HMR was released, if people had the ability to think critically and if H&F stores didn't push them on every person who walks in the door looking for a small game rifle.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Oh yes I know about the rifle weight,thats the specific reason behind getting the 25-06 howa, learning and developing as hunter/shooter.... oh believe you me the HMR is effective BUT i've got a 22mag marlin 882vs because of the heavier bullets and not being so fragile in relation to wind and its effects...

its funny that trend aye, 30 years ago the 303 reigned supreme again because it worked effectively and simply...

I'm trying to understand why thats all lol! there are many calibres out there that I can't fault and the thought of different calibres makes me want to buy a new one... cheers though much appreciated!

tinkering with and trying to figuire out or improve things is in mans nature,questioning why and how etc.... I guess i thought I'd try it on a different level lol!

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## Beavis

The reason .303 was so popular is the market was swamped with mil surp rifles and ammo. It's almost all NZ shooters knew. Funny how in those day's nobody would fudd out over military rifles. Because of that it's also difficult to find a nice non bubba'd Enfield. .303 had a rep as a heavy kicker too. I wonder why...

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## gimp

> oh believe you me the HMR is effective BUT i've got a 22mag marlin 882vs because of the heavier bullets and not being so fragile in relation to wind and its effect



Ooh. Yeah. I hate to break it to you... but that's not a real thing either. The .17HMR has an advantage there. 17gr .17HMR Vmax load, 2550fps with a BC .125 bullet. .22WMR, 30gr Vmax - 2200fps with a BC .095 bullet. Or you could step up to a 40gr softpoint or hollowpoint in the .22WMR, and get 1910fps with a BC of about .1-.125. The 45gr hollowpoint loaded by Hornady has a BC of .110, but that's still less than a 17gr in .17HMR, and it's still going 850fps slower.


I've used and owned both, and the .17HMR is far superior in pretty much every way. Except that the .22WMR has more energy and bigger bullets, so people think that it's good for shooting goats and so forth. I've tried it, it's rubbish except with head and neck shots, and I can make head and neck shots with a .17HMR.

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## Barefoot

Number one reason why the 25-06 didn't stand a chance in NZ regardless of of all its good and bad points was *availablity* - both ammo and rifles.

I occasionally look at the specs of it when wondering if I should change from .243, go back to a 6.5 or something else entirely. Its an orphan and always will be.
But if you enjoy shooting it great, go out and used it, thats what should happen to every rifle. I know a few too many people with a safe full of rifles that never get used.

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## sneeze

Reeeeally though I think its unpopular simply because outodoors with geoff uses one.Although according to Geoff the 25-06  is now called  the 7mm08  so I guess its become popular after all.

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## veitnamcam

I thought he used a 300 win mag :Wut:  least he was in one of the ones I actually watched :36 1 5:

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## Rock river arms hunter

Yea He's got a remmy 700 CDL 300wm....

he's better than Graeme sinclair by a big bit though...

hehehe one way to cure availabilty is for people to buy it aye  :Thumbsup: 

I can't fault the 25-06 but then again neither the 7mm rem mag or 223....

that reminds me I just shot a .4 group with my AR  :Grin:  which is better than dads tikka lol....sorry just had to make a mention of it

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## veitnamcam

Shoot 5 more of em and post em in gimps accuracy chalenge :Wink:

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## sneeze

> I thought he used a 300 win mag least he was in one of the ones I actually watched


In earlier series he generally used a 25-06. In one of many infamous episodes he was expounding the virtues of said caliber finishing with" its now called the 7mm-08"

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## veitnamcam

FFS on nation wide television  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Kudu

> You guys are too harsh. I think Outdoors with Geof is one of the best comedies on NZ television.


Are you pissed????

I have not long got rid of my 25-06. For no other reason than I want to try something else. I had had it for 12 odd years and it was great with no problems. One funny thing though was I always thought that its performance was not as good as my previous .257 Roberts Ackley Improved. Even though technically thier performances should have been similar. I had more "Drop on the spot" shots with the .257 than the .25-06 and I don't think my shooting got any worse.

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## the kid

> Yea He's got a remmy 700 CDL 300wm....
> 
> he's better than Graeme sinclair by a big bit though...
> 
> hehehe one way to cure availabilty is for people to buy it aye 
> 
> I can't fault the 25-06 but then again neither the 7mm rem mag or 223....
> 
> that reminds me I just shot a .4 group with my AR  which is better than dads tikka lol....sorry just had to make a mention of it


No he's not.

Graeme was doing the show when I was a child, and he's still doing it.

IN A WHEELCHAIR.

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## Wildman

> Yep. And Graeme Sinclair is the real deal. I read an extremely old Rod and Rifle (I was at intermediate school and it was in the library, so old) about him hunting Wapiti in Fiordland. Hard, successful trips. Outdoor Geof would have died trying to put his pack on.


Geoff would be right into Fiordland if it was a street name at Gulf Harbour...

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## sneeze

> Yep. And Graeme Sinclair is the real deal. I read an extremely old Rod and Rifle (I was at intermediate school and it was in the library, so old) about him hunting Wapiti in Fiordland. Hard, successful trips.


That shows when it comes to his attitude to his illness. MS is a cruel disease that continually  reaches in and rips away your life little bits at a time .Hes still out there catchin fish with his chin up.

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## Tikka7mm08

Sinclair has always struck a chord with me with his approach life and our sport be it fishing or hunting. Top bloke. Geoffrey's hideous laugh leaves me cold, not that my laugh is a heartwarmer but I have no choice there with a tv remote.

I reload for 243, 7mm08, 2506, 308 among others. There isn't much between them I would say - I load 100gn 2506 with 50gn 2209, and use the same powder and charge (a clover-leaf producing one) in my 7mm08 with 140gn Noslers (BTs or ABs). Nothing wrong with 2506 but no better than the others names and agree about lack of bullet choice.

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## crnkin

> It has nothing to do with BC.... Very few shooters need worry about BC... Even a longranger need not worry about BC until 500m or more.... Sure if you shoot shit far out, and stuff all of use actually do....
> 
> Lack of popularity of the .25cal in my mind has stuff all to do with its longrange characteristics or available pills... it has more to do with it being overshadowed by other cals.... .270 has shit BCs but is if not "the" most popular cal in NZ.... You have to remember the current LR fad has only been round a few years hunting and calibres has been around much longer....
> 
> So really to ascertain why it isnt a really popular calibre we have to look at all and every hunting style as a whole.... 
> Not a BC inducing fad involving a small percentage of us, .270 proves that....


Long range shooters, like yourself, need not worry about BC. 

Long range hunters, most definitely do.

I am neither of the above, but like cool shit

Chris

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## MEB

I think it is because 25-06 sounds smaller than a 7mm 08 to Jaffa's.

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## baldbob

I didnt say it doesnt matter crankamator... People over rely on things at times is all im suggesting

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## Tahr

If the internet didn't exist, and you just picked up a 25-06 with a 4x 'scope on it, sighted it in for 250 yards, stuffed some 120 grain factory rounds into it and went hunting...you would be equipped to kill any game animal in NZ out to 300 yards. And be completely satisfied. Maybe 0n the odd occasion you would use a couple of shots, but heh, shit happens.

So maybe its the internet that makes the difference? Not anything else.

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## Josh

My Toyota Vista is a shitbox, but it's economical enough and gets me where I want to go reliably.

My plain old Howa with factory ammo does the same.

I don't really have any desire to own a Jaguar, and I don't really care what centrefire calibre I use as long as it kills things to 200m with factory ammo. Different strokes for different folks.

I would happily own a 25-06, if a cheap and reliable one went up for sale. Gimp is probably going to remove me as a mod for saying that though  :Thumbsup:

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## crnkin

Sighting a deer rifle in at 250 yards is the worst advise anyone can give.

Agreed on all other points though.

Chris

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## Rock river arms hunter

sighting in a deer rifle at 200m is the way to go....

hmmm intresting to hear your thoughts......

if you boil it down yea theres not much difference,like 2" if that and tbh with any of the mentioned cal's.... you can't go wrong, see I'm someone who doesn't like recoil but I can manage it enough to shoot .8 groups at 200m with my 25-06... having a big long case from the 25-06 and the recoil of a 243 does feel empowering... 

as soon as I've paid for all my duckshooting stuff I'm grabbing a 6.5x55 CZ 550 FS mannlicher and a redfeild 3-9x40 or a 3-9x50 if possible.... that should do the trick as a no frills under 250m bush type rifle  :Grin:

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## scottrods

I got a 243 - it's short action and I'm a wee fella. I can't see the 25-06 being an interest to me because I don't handload. If I was considering a bigger caliber in short action then it would be 308. If I wanted a long action I'd go 270. I can get good factory loads for both.
I think it falls into a hole of bespoke calibers now..

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## Tahr

> Sighting a deer rifle in at 250 yards is the worst advise anyone can give.
> 
> Agreed on all other points though.
> 
> Chris


I was just roughing out the 3" high at 100 factor thing off the top of my head for the sake of the argument. It works, and has stood the test.

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## veitnamcam

> Sighting a deer rifle in at 250 yards is the worst advise anyone can give.
> 
> Agreed on all other points though.
> 
> Chris


How so Crankin?

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## Tahr

> You forgot the bit about how we would all get a lot more work done. I agree on all points. Except we are all on the internet, and we will get pretty bored, pretty quick if we quit discussing the finer points.


For sure. Being pragmatic sure ruins some fun  :Have A Nice Day:

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## tui_man2

> Sighting a deer rifle in at 250 yards is the worst advise anyone can give.
> 
> Agreed on all other points though.
> 
> Chris


you have alot of people asking why? i have all my rifles bar the .17 an shotty sited in for 200m zero.............2" high with most at 100m aint going to make you miss an you can take the longer ones fast if you have to as you are good to go

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## MEB

> sighting in a deer rifle at 200m is the way to go....
> 
> hmmm intresting to hear your thoughts......


I've never had the opportunity to see a deer further than about 100m away so why would I sight my rifle in to 200m?

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## R93

> Sighting a deer rifle in at 250 yards is the worst *advise* anyone can give.
> 
> Agreed on all other points though.
> 
> Chris


No. Yours is. I rarely test anything centrefire at less than 200.

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## Tahr

The 3" rule sort of goes like this...from memory.

Sight in 3" high at 100, and you can aim dead on out to 300 and be within a 3" kill zone, and hold 12" high at 400 for a killing shot.
So, out to 400 yards you can have a killing shoulder shot without holding any light under the cross hairs. Just animal.
Remember that I quoted in my example a 4x non clicking scope. Strange, eh.  :Have A Nice Day: 

I recall that you would be dead on at 25 yards and an inch or so high at 50 yards.

Its time honored and proven. But maybe to some, just old fashioned shit.

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## Rock river arms hunter

the term: "quality doesnt go out of fashion".... would apply?

I use ballistic reticles so I sight em in 1 1/2 " at 100 which is dead on at 200, then the first dot 300,second 400 etc....
what it says on the scope for drop values in relation calibre etc for bullet weight is really a case of how steady one can aim the rifle so it doesn't matter exactly.

The leupold B&C reticle is my favorite of em all, nice and fast target aquisition  :Thumbsup:

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## Josh

> Im about to buy my 15 year old brother a Norinco 7.62x39. He can learn to hunt before he gets anything that actually works properly.


Get him a Baikal so he has to learn shot placement as well  :Grin:

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## Josh

> Chances are it wont feed the second round, so same difference


Touché  :Grin:

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## Rock river arms hunter

the 2506 is cheap and reliable if you use federal power shoks through it,hehehe my sako shoots sub inch groups with em!

or highland with sierra gamekings loaded  :Thumbsup:  which are slightly cheaper

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## Wildman

> the 2506 is cheap and reliable if you use federal power shoks through it,hehehe my sako shoots sub inch groups with em!
> 
> or highland with sierra gamekings loaded  which are slightly cheaper


put them over the chrony, I reckon they would be similar in speed to my Roberts

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## baldbob

> put them over the chrony, I reckon they would be similar in speed to my Roberts


I still miss my ole roberts  :Sad:

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## Kudu

> put them over the chrony, I reckon they would be similar in speed to my Roberts


Have you still got that thing?? I always said my .257 Imp was better than my 25-06

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## Wildman

> Have you still got that thing?? I always said my .257 Imp was better than my 25-06



Hell yeah, it's great. Has accounted for every deer species in NZ apart from Sambar, Rusa and Waps. Don't think I will ever get rid of it.

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## Homer

G'Day Fella's,

I've been shooting a .25-06 for almost 30 years (?) now and whilst it is a great cartridge, it does have its limitations!
This hasn't stopped me from using it on all kinds of animals, at all sorts of ranges.
I recently purchased a new Kimber Montana 84L in .25-06 to replace my old Rem 700 (see top rifle in attached image)


I'm planning on rebarreling the old .25-06, with a new MADDCO and chambering it in .257 Weatherby!
So yes, the Quarter Bore does have its limitations but I like them!!!

Doh!
Homer

----------


## Homer

G'Day Fella's,

I forgot to mention that the Lower rifle in the Above image, is a Win M-70 Classic All-Terrain, in 7mm Rem Mag.
I'll be fitting a High Tech Specialties stock (the same as on the .25-06) to this rifle and Cerakoteing it all, as soon as I find the time.

Doh!
Homer

----------


## crnkin

Heres why. 

Speaking from experience as a newbie shooter not long ago.

How high is your projectile at 100y? How far away is that deer/tahr/goat

Don't consult your drop charts, and experienced shooters shut it.

I bet you don't know.

Now go for a neck shot, because the forums (not this one  :Have A Nice Day:  ) told you a 223 is perfect for deer, but only in heavy projectiles.

Remember, your a newbie, so you don't have a rangefinder on you.

How far was that deer? Looks like about 200m. No need to get the rangefinder out, your mate is already looking behind his scope.

Your sighted in for 250y, should be mint if you hold a little low. Or is it high?

It must be low, how low do I hold? Oh ill just aim for the base of the neck.

Bang.

Missed, deer gone. Get rangefinder out, it was actually a large bodied hind at 350y. 

You just missed with your .223 by 15 inches. 

If it was a small one, at 180y, but you thought it was 250y, and you held dead on, youd miss with a factory loaded 308 by 100mm over the neck.

If it was a deer at 100y, sweet, close as, shoot it between the eyes! Hold dead on, BOOM! oh shit missed again.

For those of you that have never missed a shot in your life, fine, but for begginers, sight in at 100m, stalk in as close as possible, if you cant get closer than 250y, use a rangefinder, and take a well estimated shot.

My opinion, but I feel I am qualified enough as a new shooter to say I have been given some horrible advice at times.

Since you asked!

Chris  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## tui_man2

> Heres why. 
> 
> Speaking from experience as a newbie shooter not long ago.
> 
> How high is your projectile at 100y? How far away is that deer/tahr/goat
> 
> Don't consult your drop charts, and experienced shooters shut it.
> 
> I bet you don't know.
> ...


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  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..................................................  ..................................................  ..................................................  ..................................................  ..................................................  ......................................

200m zero, dont hold over just point at shoulder an boom...............best advice, animal on the deck fast a simple
everyones first an most deer will be within that or 300 tops

----------


## R93

My .223 zeroed @ 200yrds wich is 1.3 ' high at 100yrds with 55gr pills is only 5-6' low at 300yrds no where near 15' 
You are confusing yourself mate. I rarely body shoot with the .223 and would never attempt it at 300+ knowing if put in the right place it will still kill.
A 25-06 with 100gr pills is almost identical to a .223 to 300.

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## Tahr

No 25.06 ever deserved 5 pages  :Grin:

----------


## Rock river arms hunter

> Heres why. 
> 
> Speaking from experience as a newbie shooter not long ago.
> 
> How high is your projectile at 100y? How far away is that deer/tahr/goat
> 
> Don't consult your drop charts, and experienced shooters shut it.
> 
> I bet you don't know.
> ...


Your a laugh!

for a start sighting in at 100m unless your bush stalking is pointless,sighting in 200m makes the best use of you calibres trajectory......

secondly its shooting 1 1/2 " high at 100, dead on at 200m and as i shoulder shoot i know for a fact that my bullet will be 1" lower than the reticle drop point for 300m because its calibrated for either 100gr or 120's....

thirdly I never go anywhere without my range finder,always around my neck ready to use...

also a 223 on fallow is widely accepted as being completely ethical, add to that equation a pimped out AR and its more than ethical...

Are you normally always that condescending and arrogant towards people?

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## baldbob

He still hasnt quite realised the "ONE" deer hes shot at, he missed cos of "BUCKFEVER" not cos he was sighted at 250yd instead of 100m.. But it was still good enough to "CLAIM".. Brown was running.... NOT DOWN lol

----------


## Barefoot

> B. "1" lower than the reticle drop point for 300m because its calibrated for either 100gr or 120's...."
> 
> Which is it? Surely the 120s and 100s dont shoot to the same point? And which 100s and 120s is it calibrated for? Did you calibrate it?


You beat me to that one, It's either calibrated for a particular load or it's not set up at all
And to get best use out of a calibre you want to set it up for maximum point blank range, which may or may not be 200m and varies for each load , speed  . . . .
eg: my .243 is sighted in for 230m with a PBR of 275m (its a slow load)

----------


## Rock river arms hunter

yes thats exactly what I mean, most american reticles are set up for fast and slow loads, i.e in the burris ff2 bal plex the 7mm rem mag has a 140gr or a 175 grain and as such the sight in difference is different..

hahaha hostility?is that how your taking it?

----------


## RimfireNZ

> Heres why. 
> 
> Speaking from experience as a newbie shooter not long ago.
> 
> How high is your projectile at 100y? How far away is that deer/tahr/goat
> 
> Don't consult your drop charts, and experienced shooters shut it.
> 
> I bet you don't know.
> ...


Chris I think you're overcomplicating things (and I think your calculations are a little off). Stick with zeroing for 200m, then you can take anything from 0 out to a good 300, possibly 400 without any correction when aiming for the boiler room. Even if you aim for the ear, the bullet will at worst drop into the neck.

Bang on at 200m. Even in the bush it'll be fine, the bullet doesn't go that high. Just don't try to correct for it if you don't need to  :Psmiley:  I'm guilty of that from time to time.

If you're concerned about not being able to deliver a kill shot on the animal you shouldn't be shooting at it.

This is getting off topic. 25-06, raadaa raadaa raadaa, bang, flop, it'll do the job just like anything else and if you like it,good for you, if not, shoot what you shoot.

----------


## veitnamcam

> Heres why. 
> 
> Speaking from experience as a newbie shooter not long ago.
> 
> How high is your projectile at 100y? How far away is that deer/tahr/goat
> 
> Don't consult your drop charts, and experienced shooters shut it.
> 
> I bet you don't know.
> ...



Chris I hate to say it but you were given great advice for a novice and used it terribly.
Very very conservatively I would say I have personally shot well over 200 deer using the sight in at 250y
I like neck shots but only when looking straight at me or away, gives you around 30" of elevation error.
However you are much better to aim for the big bit(engine room) especially a novice.
Dont shoot for the head. just dont there is no point and its too easy to blow a jaw/face off.
Il say again dont shoot for the head.
Iv only had a range finder for about 3 years and the above system worked well for me.

----------


## Homer

G'Day Fella's,

Tahr, you may be disturbed to know that this thread, is now up to 6 Pages!

In the distant past when I was more wild and woolly, I used to shoot lots of 87 and 90 grn bullets thru my .25-06.
These were smokin along at 3590fps.
After a while I noticed that the bore in front of the chamber, was getting a bit rough and the rifling was disappearing.
So to try and prolong this factory barrel a bit longer, I went to 100grn bullets (Nosler B/tip and Barnes X) at ? fps.
This Rem 700, would still shoot these into 1/2" to 5/8" 3 shot groups and the critters kept fallin over so.........
So a word of advice, *Speed Kills* both *Critters and Barrels!*

Doh!
Homer

----------


## Carlsen Highway

You guys do make hunting a technical experience. A .25/06 is an excellent hunting cartridge for deer. I have more drop in the tracks kills with a .25/06 (and the .243) than any other. A .25/06 with 115 or 117grains bullets, either interlocks or SST's is a stone cold killer on deer, and coupled with light recoil, about the same as a 6.5x55, is a very friendly rifle to shoot.
The .25/06 Remington is one of the perfect deer rifles for New Zealand. 
AS for velocity in a short 20 inch barrel; who is a Girl Guide here and cant carry a 24 inch barrelled rifle? I never did understand what the loss two or four inches of barrel was suppossed to achieve in the short rifle fad nowadays. I have had 20 inch barreled rifles and even an 18 and a 17 inch and it never made that much difference to me to be perfectly honest.
(None of this need concern a Long Range Shooter, who I sort of equate with artillerymen rather than hunters. I also imagine them wearing berets, I am not sure why. So they can recognise each other I suppose.)

As for why is hasn't caught on so much, I can only hazard a guess that it has not simply because its reletively new, only a factory round since 1969, and as such doesnt have much of a track record, plus, compared to new rounds like the 7mm08 and so forth, I just dont think they pushed the round hard marketing wise in NZ. I'm just guessing but I bet they didn't really offer it much to NZ shooters through the seventies, although I would have to go back through the old catalogues to check that out. I mean it took us long enough to get push button telephones forget about a new cartridge.

----------


## Pnumatix

I'm casting my mind back to the eighty's when I first considered a 25-06 the main reason it was failing to take hold was a lack of available rifles and the cost of factory ammo. Remington was the only factory ammo available, and it was twice the price of their other offerings at the time. Come to think of it the same thing was holding back to 7-08 later on. I'm not sure if Remington had some kind of exclusive rights to manufacture these two rounds, but it seemed that way. They also managed to retard sales of the 444 Marlin by overpricing that round as well. Just for the record I did use a 25-06. (and later a 7-08) and found it ok for all NZ game. I remember when searching for reloading data that it was pretty much consigned to a varmint round in the USA, with plains antelope included. Probably about the right use for this round........

----------


## bill f

The short of it is that the 270win 130 gr. Is far superior  and commonly available.  Thats it.  The end,

----------


## 257weatherby

> The short of it is that the 270win 130 gr. Is far superior  and commonly available.  Thats it.  The end,


That only applies to the sometimes painfully slow factory loads, (the Hornady Superformance 117 SST load may be an exception)  to a handloader with experience and a proper length barrel, it is easy to comfortably go past the .270 130gn loads. Nearly 40yrs hunting critters of varying types, and I keep coming back to my 2506(s). And I have used everything from .22lr to 340Wby and 338Lap. We all have our own preferences, .270 is yours, but you can't help that, Mericans are big on therapy, would you like some?

----------


## Pointer

It's been proven by a colmar brunton poll on one news that 25-06 owners have more doubts about their sexuality than owners of any other calibre

----------


## Grunta

> The short of it is that the 270win 130 gr. Is far superior and commonly available. Thats it. The end,


I swear you Plagiarised that from @Toby !!

----------


## 257weatherby

> It's been proven by a colmar brunton poll on one news that 25-06 owners have more doubts about their sexuality than owners of any other calibre


It's contagious, you catch it from .270 owners..........

----------


## 308

I may be drunk and stuck in Palmerston North (enough to make anyone grumpy) but wtf is up with fucking americans thinking they know what happens here?

From a country that had it's own version of apartheid up until the 60's I don't need advice on farking anything. Ever. Again

----------


## 300CALMAN

DING DING DING!!! Next round 25-06 vs 270 owners!

----------


## Kudu

> DING DING DING!!! Next round 25-06 vs 270 owners!


No contest! 25-06 wins as the .270 isn't a proper calibre........... :Grin:

----------


## veitnamcam

2506 just was never really advertised or pushed here.
270was a culler caliber so stands to reason stronger following even if it is no better or worse.

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

----------


## rogers.270

> DING DING DING!!! Next round 25-06 vs 270 owners!


that's not a fair fight........... I cant believe I read the entire thread........... my head hurts

----------


## TeRei

If I recall correctly Graeme Sinclair of fishing fame used one in his early hunting years. A bloke I know has a wooden Sako 25/06 and shot 13 deer all recovered last week. All shot in the rain which in southern HB was miserable.He swears by it although he also has a super expensive 7wsm.

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## trooper90

> You guys do make hunting a technical experience. A .25/06 is an excellent hunting cartridge for deer. I have more drop in the tracks kills with a .25/06 (and the .243) than any other. A .25/06 with 115 or 117grains bullets, either interlocks or SST's is a stone cold killer on deer, and coupled with light recoil, about the same as a 6.5x55, is a very friendly rifle to shoot.
> The .25/06 Remington is one of the perfect deer rifles for New Zealand. 
> AS for velocity in a short 20 inch barrel; who is a Girl Guide here and cant carry a 24 inch barrelled rifle? I never did understand what the loss two or four inches of barrel was suppossed to achieve in the short rifle fad nowadays. I have had 20 inch barreled rifles and even an 18 and a 17 inch and it never made that much difference to me to be perfectly honest.
> (None of this need concern a Long Range Shooter, who I sort of equate with artillerymen rather than hunters. I also imagine them wearing berets, I am not sure why. So they can recognise each other I suppose.)
> 
> As for why is hasn't caught on so much, I can only hazard a guess that it has not simply because its reletively new, only a factory round since 1969, and as such doesnt have much of a track record, plus, compared to new rounds like the 7mm08 and so forth, I just dont think they pushed the round hard marketing wise in NZ. I'm just guessing but I bet they didn't really offer it much to NZ shooters through the seventies, although I would have to go back through the old catalogues to check that out. I mean it took us long enough to get push button telephones forget about a new cartridge.


+1

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## nightowl52

> It's been proven by a colmar brunton poll on one news that 25-06 owners have more doubts about their sexuality than owners of any other calibre


Haha! Excellent! Oh wait.....I've got one!

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## nightowl52

> +1


Mine....Remington SS 700 24" barrell, love it, although I haven't been hunting (deer) nearly as much as I should have. Use reloaded117gr BTSPs. Hope I'm fit enuf when I retire to get out there.

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## veitnamcam

How come I cant access any posts beyond post number #87 on this thread?

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## Boaraxa

> Mine....Remington SS 700 24" barrell, love it, although I haven't been hunting (deer) nearly as much as I should have. Use reloaded117gr BTSPs. Hope I'm fit enuf when I retire to get out there.


That's what I use to , or for a bit more thump the 120 corelokt work wonders on Tahr , iv never played around with mine much I got an accurate load using the 117 & 120 so just stuck with it zeroed 3inches high at 100 , always toyed with the idea of trying the 70gn just for kicks maybe on some pesky goats or something but then that would be like starting from scratch figuring out a load & rezeroing so maybe not , anyway its a good cal & used to stand out a bit from the likes of a 308 with less recoil ,but you don't notice it much these days with suppressors .

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## Mooseman

Had a Ruger Hawkeye in 25 06 for a while, it worked well shot a few deer with it out past 300 yards using the 110 gr Accubond at about 3100 fps. Nothing argued with it. Sold it as the rifle was a bit heavy for bush hunting I thought.

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## NZ_noddy

> How come I cant access any posts beyond post number #87 on this thread?


Having read the whole thread, maybe you're just lucky!

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## Micky Duck

because we already had the mighty poohseventy and the humble twoforfree to cover anything it could do just as well if not better.....

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## Max Headroom

Thinking about it a little, North america has quite an assortment of critters. Bear, deer, beavers, coyotes, alligators, to name a few.

I suspect the 25/06's claim to fame was that it was versatile enough to zap most animals.

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## veitnamcam

Oddly the thread showed unread and 7 pages when I last posted but page 7 was not accessible and my post appeared on page 6  :Wtfsmilie:

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## Beaker

6.5x55 Swede, all you need.

(And maybe a 6'2" 32dd, blonde Swede )

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## Tribrit

Anyone else ever see that Geoff Thomas hunting video?
Roars up a red stag (his guide did), he shoots it at about 10m.... then remarks "the 2506 is really flat shooting at that pace"
Cracked me up

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## nor-west

If a 100 grain 6mm bullet is touted as being suitable for 90% of NZ  game, what is a120 grain 25 calibre bullet capable of? I would say easily just as much.

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## trooper90

All you really need is the rifle you have in your hand and more TIME to hunt with it!

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## csmiffy

Always wanted one but never got one. If a 130gr 270 is ok cant quite see why a 117 25 cal at similar speed wouldn't be acceptable. If a cheap one came up I'd have it.
One of my cousins husband,who does a crap load of shooting and gets a lot of deer went to a 2506 years ago from a 270.
His first decent trial was 3  deer nearly 400m away. Got them all. he was pretty happy with it

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## Tim Dicko

6.5-06 would be good.

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## stevodog

> Always wanted one but never got one. If a 130gr 270 is ok cant quite see why a 117 25 cal at similar speed wouldn't be acceptable. If a cheap one came up I'd have it.
> One of my cousins husband,who does a crap load of shooting and gets a lot of deer went to a 2506 years ago from a 270.
> His first decent trial was 3  deer nearly 400m away. Got them all. he was pretty happy with it


true that...there was a good tang safety Ruger on TM a few months back for cheap that had me sorely tempted.

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## rigga

I've had the 25-06 it's a very capable caliber you can't compare it with the 270 as the 270 has more grunt and shoots 130gn projectiles but I would say i'd own a 25-06 rather than a 243 and I've owned both the 25-06 is a comfortable caliber to use I used it for wild dogs, pigs all ferals even wild cattle but with the cattle shot placement was vital I found it was a very flat shooter and deadly accurate and reliable I made my own ammo I used a 100gn projectile and I found it would kill just as good as a 117-120gn projectile probably the speed factor (hydraulic shock) I've never shot deer but i'm pretty sure the 25-06 would handle the mid range size deer or even the larger ones one of the reasons I see with the 25-06 not getting a leg up is there are too many calibers that can be tinkered with to mimic the 25-06's capabilities by souping the loads and projectile weights but for a standard caliber with no frills it is a very good caliber I have pushed it like the other calibers and man can you get them performing but I found it perfect as it was ''standard''
I needed a bigger caliber for the wild cattle and I couldn't afford to run an extra rifle so with a heavy heart I traded the 25-06 in on a 7mm mag and I can tell you I still miss that rifle it's a caliber amid calibers but unfortunately it can be mimicked by other calibers and that's what people like to do these days but you'll find the older shooters will stick to the standard calibers not as much mucking around trying to hone things in. just my 2cents Cheers

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## nightowl52

> That's what I use to , or for a bit more thump the 120 corelokt work wonders on Tahr , iv never played around with mine much I got an accurate load using the 117 & 120 so just stuck with it zeroed 3inches high at 100 , always toyed with the idea of trying the 70gn just for kicks maybe on some pesky goats or something but then that would be like starting from scratch figuring out a load & rezeroing so maybe not , anyway its a good cal & used to stand out a bit from the likes of a 308 with less recoil ,but you don't notice it much these days with suppressors .


Just put a Sonic 45 on mine and put a few sighters through it last weekend, was great!! Recoil felt less too.

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## tetawa

Had one when they became available in NZ late 1960's I think, only could get 120 Rem Core-loc , worked like a solid, straight thru on light deer. Later used the 100 core-loc, worked ok. Later went to the 257 Roberts and hand loads, that's a real 25 cal. Now have a 250 Savage that I'm playing with.

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## Spitfire

Well, I’ve had two of them and shot several hundred critters with them including: roe, muntjac, red, fallow, whitetail, foxes and coyotes. All seemed to be as dead as when shot with anything else.

I suspect they aren’t really popular because of the limited supply of higher BC projectiles, availability of off the shelf ammo, and the wide variety of other chambering son the market.

I used 100 grain TTSX, 100 and 115 grain Nosler BTs, 110 accubonds, and 117 SSTs over the years in mine. I think the 115 BTs were the best all rounders. TTSX were good close in, but terrible past about 250m. 100 BTs were too destructive. 

.25-06 relies on speed to do its work and I found mine to be poor at anything beyond 300. Two wounded reds with long follow ups in Scotland taught me that 250 should be my personal limit.

Blackjack in the US have a high BC 131 grain projectile, but it needs a fast twist barrel to stabilise, so isn’t likely to catch on here.

I have moved on to bigger chamberings since I moved over here as I’m generally after reds and tahr now and although .25-06 can handle them,  prefer something larger with heavy for caliber projectiles.

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## NEO

I knew some people brought many 22-250 in North isaland. They thought this should do as they expected, but eventually it was not.

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## Got Juice?

1/4 bore unfortunately was always relegated to 'good enough' for hunting duty.

With some real projectile development, and barrel twist rates improved, i dare say it would be hard to equal for game and def in the hunt for some target duty.

My RIP chum used to exclusively use one for Roosavelt Elk, and he never failed to take one with 1 shot.

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## trooper90

Great choice for NZ game

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## Gibo

Necrophiliac

----------


## chainsaw

I can just see it coming ...... 25PRC or 25Nosler. Hornady will need a mew high BC pill to add to their list and drive their next marketing spin.  The 6.5 fad must just about be thrashed to death now?

----------


## Mathias

> I can just see it coming ...... 25PRC or 25Nosler. Hornady will need a mew high BC pill to add to their list and drive their next marketing spin.  The 6.5 fad must just about be thrashed to death now?


Shush you... you'll wake up 25/08Imp and his 25 Creedmore you missed mentioning  :Grin:

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## 25 /08 IMP

I'm awake need more high bc pills first but it's still in the back of my mind.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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## Flyblown

> Necrophiliac


Yup. Eight years later and it's still a loud barky shit bullet shooting throwback to when Germans wore spikes on their helmets (why?) and Americans were wishing like hell they hadn't killed all their buffalo.

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## Allizdog

Interesting read. 

I will just stick with my 308. The saying "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind with this cal.

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## Max Headroom

Is it fair to say of the 25/06 that maths just isn't running in it's favour the way it does for 243 /7mm?

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## stevodog

I wouldn't go out to buy one but wouldn't turn my nose up at one either. Probably its hey day was a super varmint or deer rifle before reliable dialling scopes with its long MPBR

----------


## Flyblown

Its always good to revisit a thread like this. Reminds me how far weve come in recent years. Humour aside the simple fact is that the old .25-06 will flatten deer within normal hunting ranges and there isnt really anything wrong with it. 

Apart from the fact its a long action case that needs too much powder for the performance, its too loud, it needs a long barrel, has a rubbish bullet selection and if for some reason you wanted one that wasnt shot out, you wouldnt be able to find one.

.25-06 fans get their ardent admiration for the cartridge from their grandfathers. Luckily my grandfather had moved on to short action modernity as he was a bit of a flash git, so when it was my turn there was none of this antique cartridge business. 

But Ill say this, the one and only time I have ever hunted with a .25 aught six, I pointed it at a medium-ish antelope, it went BANG and the animal fell over right in front of my very eyes. My abiding memory of that moment was just how loud the bloody thing was, and the fact that it had a set trigger which I had not been educated on how to use properly. So I got a big surprise. But nonetheless, the old quarter bore sealed the deal, and I will always remember that moment very fondly. So much so that Ive always thought that if I was to buy an antique cartridge in a timber and blued steel hunting rifle, it would very probably be the .25-06.

call me a hypocrite. Youd be correct.

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## 257weatherby

My last long term 25/06 was driving 115 VLD (G1 .483) at 3200 with a case full of 2217. Killed like lightning. The various 25/06's I've had tended to kill faster/more decisively than 6.5 Swede/.308/7mm08 et al.

It's an old fashioned past it antique? and .270/3006/7x57? they aint exactly modern, and the 25 is younger than them.

Just what would that compare unfavorably with? 

But I'm just a silly old prick who still old fashionedly kills big animals with a .243.

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## Flyblown

Yep that’s pretty much exactly what the .25-06 shooters always say, and they would be right. It’s got just enough more speed and just enough weight to deliver a noticeably faster “shock” killing outcome than some of the standard short actions running in the high mid-2000s. That’s assuming you put it in the right place of course...

Somewhere I’ve got an Excel spreadsheet with “terminal whack” graphed at 200yds for a whole bunch of cartridges up to the .308 / 165gr, and the .25-06 compares very well. 

Bottom line is that it works, simply because it is able to throw a roughly 120gr bullet at the same amount of fps _more_ than 3000 then most of the rest of them can manage _below_ 3000. This is the difference between the parent cases of course.

But it’s not like it’s the only one that can do that. But it is interesting that as time has gone on the market seems to have settled on slightly less powerful short action derivatives, leaving the more powerful long action cartridges in similar calibres in the hands of the wildcatters or some of the very rare “magnum” 6.5s. I wonder why this is? It can’t be action length alone. I haven’t really thought about it before but I suppose there is just a sweet spot with short action cartridges throwing 100-140gr bullets between 2700-3000fps.

Oh well maybe I shall ponder that one as I go to sleep which is going to be in about three minutes...

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## nor-west

I've  got one for sale 24 inch barreled Ruger going cheap, rings, scope dies brass etc great shooter with 2217 and 120 spears.

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## Spitfire

I’ve had two of them. One was in the US where whitetail were on the menu and it was ideal for the job. The other was in the UK where muntjac, roe, fallow and foxes were the main job, and also ideal. 

Now the problems. For big bodied red deer it’s underpowered at all ranges. Some may disagree with that, but I had to shoot reds twice several times over the years. I used SSTs, Accubonds, Nosler BTs and VLDs and they were all less than ideal. I also found that at anything much past 300m the poor BCs of all available bullets meant that they were running out of steam and didn’t hav enough energy. At anything past that sort of range it’s far from flat shooting.

Blackjack 131 grain bullets are available now, but need much faster twists than factory rifles can offer.

So, for me, it’s a good chambering for some jobs, but not anywhere near the best all-rounder for NZ game.

My .25-06 is now a .284 Win, which I think is a great all-rounder, but that’s a different story.

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## 257weatherby

> I've  got one for sale 24 inch barreled Ruger going cheap, rings, scope dies brass etc great shooter with 2217 and 120 spears.


Have looked at this and it really is a great deal.

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## 257weatherby

I've been roaming the hills,mountains and valleys shooting animals of varying descriptions for about 40yrs now, I'll bet no matter how many animals I've shot, and assessed the suitability of a cartridge/bullet combination, @Spitfire has shot more.

I wonder how all those big reds feel about how "underpowered" 25/06 if, after being killed with .223, .243, 6mmRem ect. Actually I already know - they don't feel anything, cause they are .........dead.

Then of course, all the donkeys, camels and feral cattle, which are by far tougher than any red, would feel highly aggrieved  that an inadequate  cartridge did them in.

As to having to shoot animals twice, frequently......... if in doubt, blame the tool.

----------


## Spitfire

My post was my opinion and based on experience. It wasn’t personal and wasn’t designed to offend, so let’s try to keep the discussion that way. I’m sorry my opinion differs from yours, and it’s you claiming more experience than me. Not all of the animals I needed to shoot twice were shot perfectly, but most were in the lungs and still needed a follow up.

----------


## Spitfire

...and I never said frequently. I said “several times.”

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## Flyblown

Settle down, it's Friday... beer o'clock in 4 hours.  

This part of our debates always brings a wry smile. Simply fact is, you can shoot a red deer with a .300 Win Mag, put it slightly too far back, and the deer's gone like shit off a stick. I saw that happen last winter... cue tool blaming by the nut behind the butt. When the deer was found, it had a dirty great big hole about 7-8" too far back, upper rear lung shot. Doesn't take much with a bit of wind and angles not quite in your favour. 

When deer I shoot don't drop immediately, it's usually cos I didn't put the pill in the right place. 

There's bugger all separating most of the sporting rifles we use, at the end of the day. Shot placement is top trump, every time. 

That's all.

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## 257weatherby

> ...and I never said frequently. I said several times.


So over a lifetime of shooting bigger animals with a 25/06, it has only been an occasional thing for you to have to shoot twice, but that has always been the fault of the cartridge? that doesn't ever happen with other calibers/cartridges?

The 25/06 does have it's weaknesses:
-It needs a proper length barrel to play to it's main strength: velocity and SD
-It needs a smart projectile choice for the game intended (and good projectiles do in fact, exist)
-You need to be a handloader to get the best out of it
-Factory ammo that doesn't hamstring it, is limited.


.270 Win is lauded all over as a genuine game getter, yes?, lets have a look: Speer Reloading manual no 13
.277:130 Speer Hotcor, 64 grains H1000 gets you 3117fps, 300yd energy = 1684 foot pounds at 2416 foot seconds
.257:120 Speer Hotcor,58 grains Re25 gets you 3071fps, 300yd energy = 1555 foot pounds at 2400 foot seconds
.223 at 300yds, fuck all energy or velocity, still gets it done.
(To be fair, energy is not really the best yardstick, bullet construction and velocity far more important)
This is using bullets from the same manufacturer, the same form and construction in order to be an "apples for apples" comparison  

As we can see, the "superiority" of the .270 at the Speer manual maximum, is very little, a slight advantage in energy - the .257 has a slight advantage in SD giving better penetration on heavier animals. The 270 in the hands of a handloader, can be made to give a little more velocity, the .257 in the hands of a handloader, can be made to give a lot more velocity. The result of that, will still see them both to be similar in performance.

Would you like to make the case for .270 with 130 grain pills being underpowered for red deer in NZ?

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## Moa Hunter

I have a 2506 AI and a 270. The 25 is very easy to hit things with and that seems to be a universal opinion amongst 2506 owners. I can still see the target in the scope when the bullet hits. The 270 kills better, because it has a bigger diameter pill. But even though the 270 is very accurate the different recoil impulse or something means that it needs more careful aiming to hit with it. 2506's are lasers, with a 26" inch barrel mine was capable of 3920 fps with 87 grain bullets. Never tried a Barnes but I am sure they would be interesting at that speed.

----------


## bumblefoot

> cue tool blaming by the nut behind the butt.


Years ago when I was young fulla I had a couple of bad shots with the Ruger M77 .270. I knew that rifle inside out and often shot to 300yds on the range so was pretty practiced with it. I remember shooting 2 goats once that were so far away I aimed about a foot high and hit them low in the chest; a long range for those days. I'm not sure what the range was but it was sighted in t be 2.5" high at 100. It grouped 3 shots into around an inch with just under max handloads

Well I muffed a couple of sitters. Usually I always blame myself first, but this time for some reason blamed the rifle. Anyhoo.... Went to the range to test and it was smack on target. So yup, was my fault..... Lesson learnt (again!)

----------


## Flyblown

@bumblefoot

You never stop learning mate. The day I stop learning will be the day you can put me in a box. Fuck there’s so much I don’t know I don’t know where to start sometimes.

----------


## Mooseman

Had a Ruger Hawkeye 25 06 awhile back , shot 110 gr Accubonds at about 3140 fps and it worked well on reds out to 300 odd yards. I liked the caliber but the rifle was a little on the heavy side. Certainly gets the job done at normal hunting ranges.

----------


## Husky1600

Had one for a number of years, sold it.........last time I sold a rifle for a woman, never again! Now I want another one so if somebody has a 25 cal barrel, and possibly a 25-06 reamer, I'm all ears. I'm not too concerned if its not the perfect NZ calibre, Im not worried that there apparently isn't a good selection of high BC bullets. More than happy to go shoot a deer or a tahr or a pig with a 25, cool calibre

----------


## csmiffy

> Had one for a number of years, sold it.........last time I sold a rifle for a woman, never again! Now I want another one so if somebody has a 25 cal barrel, and possibly a 25-06 reamer, I'm all ears. I'm not too concerned if its not the perfect NZ calibre, Im not worried that there apparently isn't a good selection of high BC bullets. More than happy to go shoot a deer or a tahr or a pig with a 25, cool calibre


 @Husky1600 there is a cheap one for sale. A dude couple of posts back even mentioned it.

----------


## Husky1600

Just after a barrel, have nice tidy Husky 1600 that needs a new barrel.

----------


## nor-west

> Just after a barrel, have nice tidy Husky 1600 that needs a new barrel.


I love those 1600 Huskys only rifle I truly regreted selling. In the meantime for a miserly $550 you can have a great shooting 2506 all set and ready to go  :Thumbsup:

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## Dicko

.25s are more projectile sensitive than .270s. 

25 projectiles below 100gns are mostly vermin pills. You have to be at 100 or above for medium and large game. 

With .270 its difficult to buy ammo or pills lighter than copper cup 130s which st what gave the caliber its great name as a medium / larger game cartridge.

----------


## Rock river arms hunter

I'm amazed this thread is going 8 years later!

And how much my view on this thread has changed so radically!

Hahaha

----------


## Buzo

Bumped into this the other day.....

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/2...HO4xyK9TzYkQ7g

I must say I don't see the point of the rivalry that seems to go on [I think it's a small calibre syndrome thing of having to prove that your guns big enough??] Plus people can generate any graph/table or talk bullshit to prove their point.
Anyway they both do the job. I think if you have a nicely set up rifle in either calibre you'll love it every time you get to pull the trigger.
I like mine it works for me and the hunting I do.

----------


## 7.62

I’ve never used one but they seemed to have a bit of following in the late ‘90s. “Flat shooting”, “low recoil”, and “reliable performance” on medium sized game seemed to be the descriptions of the converted. I remember one guy describing it as the perfect chamois caliber and superior to a 243 in this role. I don’t doubt what was said by those fans of the cartridge. I imagine it was and still is a pretty effective round for the average hunter who isn’t particularly interested in ballistics, and rarely shoots anything beyond 250yd. In terms of recoil, I’m guessing a lot of the rifles back then in that caliber were wood/blue items with longish barrels (at least 24”); combine that with a long action and you’ve got a reasonably heavy rifle, hence the “low recoil” catchcry. But in the current era of light, efficient, short barrelled, suppressed, short action rifles flinging high BC pills at moderate velocities; the 25/06 resembles a bit of an unwieldy barrel burning dinosaur. Still, I’d take one over a 270. Not for any rational reason, just fuckin hate 270’s

----------


## Hiawatha

> If you do the clickety dialing thing it probably doesn't really matter a damn what cartridge you choose, within reason. People that don't do that will never know the difference. Just get a damn rifle and go hunting. These threads make my head hurt.


 :Thumbsup:  So true. What makes me laugh is all the press going to 260, 6.5 PRC, Needmore and Grendell. While the 25-06 is run down as a yesterday calibre. 270 is the same. The only people that hate either are generally hair splitters and non hunters. Its all just advertising and people splitting hairs because to actually go for a hunt instead of talking about it would involve effort. One of the other good examples was people running down the 7x57 as underpowered then everyone jumping on the 7-08 bandwagon. Us blokes are the worst kind of retail addicts really. We are like kids in a toy shop. Just go hunting folks and if the distance is a bit far, here's a radical thought........... stalk closer!!!!

----------


## mikee

I shot my first ever chamois in late 80s with one at a hair over 500 yards (rifle was borrowed from the chap I was hunting with as my 270 / burris 4 power scope was not up to it  :Have A Nice Day:  )................................and I have it on video to prove it. No fancy reticules either just hold over, 2 ft was the call and spot on. Not long after that I slold the 270  :Have A Nice Day: 
I don't look at the video much as I don't want to be reminded I was once a lot thinner !!

----------


## Moa Hunter

> If you had a choice between a 7/08 and a 25/06 at the same price, in the same rifle, and you chose the 25/06, the first thing you should do is shoot yourself with your new rifle.  Just be VERY careful where you place the shot.


I am near ChCh, would you like to borrow my 25 06 and compare it to your 7/08 Shooting hares at 300 mtrs and deer in the head at 250m. 2506 is just very easy to hit with

----------


## Hiawatha

If we all got told we could only hunt with a 243 calibre we would grumble and then get on with it. We would select our bullet carefully and hunt and shoot according to the calibres limitations.  It is how we should view any rifle we use really don't you think? Calibre is largely irrelevant.

----------


## Puffin

> I'm amazed this thread is going 8 years later!
> 
> And how much my view on this thread has changed so radically!
> 
> Hahaha


    @Rock river arms hunter  Please do tell ?
And assuming you have decided on the unsuitability of this cartridge - and perhaps the 25-cal overall - for reds, then what in your view is the required minimum please, and why ? 

What improvement contributes the most in your opinion in moving from the 25-06 to your current minimum?
Cross-sectional area?
Bullet weight (over the max in 25 of 120gr)?
MV (unlikely to be this, the 25-06 is pretty nippy)?
Twist rate (being limited to 1:10) ?

----------


## Moa Hunter

> And yet has harder, faster, recoil, less bullet weight variance, burns more powder, barks more and is still way less popular, and why?   Because it just doesn't make sense. 
> And shooting hares at 300 is no measure of a rifles ability.  If you don't have that capability, you need more proper practice.   Shooting half grown rabbits at 300 is a challenge. Shooting deer in the head at 250 neither; in fact, that's just questionable ethics, in my opinion.  One flick of the head, one miniscule movement and you've got a deer with a missing jaw or nose, dead, eventually, and in agony.


Well the offer is on the table - borrow it and see. Try it on Wallaby's, try it on Chams which is what I have it for. It will knock things down better than the 7m08, not as well as a 270. But … it is a calibre that is very very easy to hit with. The recoil impulse is such that I can see the hit. They are mild recoil like a 243

----------


## Micky Duck

I have a poohseventy so are biased......I can down load the old girl with 110grn loads to pretty much duplicate it....or slip in a 170grn and kick heels of the 30/06   .
130-140-150grn loads all do the bizo...mono110s are a bit of a game changer in poohseventy   takes the recoil right down......cant see why a heavyish mono in 25/06 wont up its game no end.

----------


## Rock river arms hunter

> @Rock river arms hunter  Please do tell ?
> And assuming you have decided on the unsuitability of this cartridge - and perhaps the 25-cal overall - for reds, then what in your view is the required minimum please, and why ? 
> 
> What improvement contributes the most in your opinion in moving from the 25-06 to your current minimum?
> Cross-sectional area?
> Bullet weight (over the max in 25 of 120gr)?
> MV (unlikely to be this, the 25-06 is pretty nippy)?
> Twist rate (being limited to 1:10) ?


In simple terms my whole approach to rifles.

I like shorter barrels nowadays hence my love of the 223 and 308s. It's just a preference.

I certainly won't knock its hit down power as anyone has seen one knows how effective they can be!

I dont knock the 25 cal at all and would love a 25-06 however for the ammo available and the projectile selection I find the old 308 or 7mm bores better suited for me. Its just a case I couldn't justify one to wifey.

In the past i was hunting more private land but now i hunt mostly public and at that its half bush half clearings.

----------


## Micky Duck

silly question....was there a 25/08 made???   it would sit between .243 and .260 would it not??

----------


## nor-west

Yes the 25 Souper, very popular in the states for a couple of decades

----------


## mikee

> silly question....was there a 25/08 made???   it would sit between .243 and .260 would it not??


25Souper
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...25+Souper.html

----------


## Rock river arms hunter

> silly question....was there a 25/08 made???   it would sit between .243 and .260 would it not??


Fairly sure there was

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## Micky Duck

interesting read on that thread thanks mikee......a number of custom rifles built each year.....tends to suggest its not such a silly idea at all.

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## nor-west

One of our forum members used a 25.06 with  copper projectiles on a few Tahr hunts,  @Brian and  @Tahr will remember what projectile it was, was with a blaser rifle and he shot a few bull tahr at 300 plus that dropped on the spot, might have been 90 grain custom made or something, he used the same load on Sambar out back of his farm and never had a failure.

Pretty sure projectile was a 90 grain GS custom?

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## 25 /08 IMP

> silly question....was there a 25/08 made???   it would sit between .243 and .260 would it not??


I don't think it was ever made as an off the shelf option but I could be wrong.
I had one made many years ago and I did a write up on it in NZ Guns. It was a great Cal and as said it sits between the .243 and .260, mine used to push the 120grn at just over 2900fps. I also had mine rechambered to  AI  but there was very little gain . The .25 Cal just needs a better new range of projectiles like the Ace 131 from Blackjack.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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## Basenjiboy

Robbie Tiffen rechambered a Tikka m55  to 25 Souper (25-08) for me.
i'm running 100gn hornday with AR2209 (haven't chronographed it yet)

Its a perfect long range wallaby rig and fellow deer

----------


## Tahr

> One of our forum members used a 25.06 with  copper projectiles on a few Tahr hunts,  @Brian and  @Tahr will remember what projectile it was, was with a blaser rifle and he shot a few bull tahr at 300 plus that dropped on the spot, might have been 90 grain custom made or something, he used the same load on Sambar out back of his farm and never had a failure.
> 
> Pretty sure projectile was a 90 grain GS custom?


Yes, that's what they were. Poll axed Tahr. Rifle was a Blaser and he could shoot Tahr on the run no problem. A great natural shot.

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## Moa Hunter

> 25-06 Remington round averages out to 2360 ft-lb, while a 7mm-08 Remington round averages out to about 2450 ft-lb.   So the 7mm08 has better knock down power, irrespective of your opinion.  And on my suppressed 7/08 I can keep on target through the follow through.  
> .243 has 8.8lb recoil, where 25/06 has 11, so science is against you on that score too.  7/08 with the 120's is 12.1 so there's less difference between 25/06 and 7/08 than there is with .243 and 25/06.   So, again, your opinion is science free.
> However, you're right about it being a good Wallaby calibre, though I can use 120g in 7/08 on wallabies, rabbits/hares with devastating results, as would be expected.
> 25/06 is a good enough calibre however it's limitations, based on science rather than opinion, mean there are better calibres available, in a larger range of projectiles, than the 25/06.  That's not opinion; that's actual, real, facts, as _evidenced_ above. 
> However, you seem determined that your opinion is worth more than the actual science, so good luck with that.  I'll stick with the science and the 7/08.


What I am trying to convey but obviously I am not doing a very good job is that the 2506 is very easy to shoot accurately. It is very very flat. It is almost impossible to miss with one. Quite a different beast to the 7mm 08, just point shoot the 25, don't worry about trajectory. As to the science, it is the energy transfer that is important not the momentum.  7mm08 is a fine calibre absolutely and a better choice for stags, but it can only cause hydrostatic shock to about 150 mtrs whereas the 2506 with higher velocity is good to 250 for instant drop on the spot kills.

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## Micky Duck

so for you melenials.......and anyone else still following this thread....... the point n shoot thing mentioned above was THE VERY REASON the likes of the poohseventy /EBRG and the likes got such a fine reputation back 40-50 years ago....compared to the other slower loads of the day taking a sucessful shot out to an ESTIMATED 300-350 yards was FAR MORE LIKELY to result in a kill..... the flatter trajectory helped no end,the common place carry of rangefinders/dialing up and trajectory charts has changed the ball game completely for some folks,they are doing now with technology what the american buffalo hunters were doing a hundred years ago with .45/70/405   or .45/90 or .45/110s and the likes,lobbing a projectile into a KNOWN curve to connect at a known range.
some of us still basically use the rule of 3   when sighting in...in rough rounded terms it means my poohseventy will be 3" high at hundy,dead on at 270  and hold on backbone at 350ish.... it works for MOST rifles assuming a velocity of 2800-3100fps and a pointy bit coming out the end.
if you know your rifle and know where its going to hit and are using a decent expanding projectile you can pretty much kill a deer as far as you can hold a 8" group.......BUT if your projectile is running out of ooomph and / or doesnt expand.....even the best shot can still result in a slow kill/runner.
see Maxs thread on x39mm if you want to see how diferent folks think different strokes..... Ive killed a deer with .22 magnum,not ideal but its entirely plausable to do so....would I do it again??? yes but would be a lot more cleaver about projectile placement....
with either the .25/06 or the 7mm/08   if you take out the front wheels,you deer is falling over dead. argueing which is better is a pure pissing contest...given a howling norwest wind either way your boots will get wet.

----------


## Shearer

Can't believe we are on to page 11 about the 25-06 :Wtfsmilie:

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## Husky1600

Even tho I was foolish enough to part with my 25-06 a number of years back, I still have a hankering for another. I dont actually give a rats arse whether it has less oomph at 276.5 metres, or that some other projectile/calibre combination has more whatever on paper. In my experience, it is just as a number of people have stated - it is a very easy calibre to shoot accurately. And it kills! A very good friend of mine was often asked what he would recommend for shooting tahr, or chamois, or pigs, or deer, at X meters in a howling NWester, or a foggy southerly etc etc - and his answer was always the same "whatever you choose so long as the bullet and target connect" A 25-06 would be a nice mid calibre addition to my gunsafe, if anyone can find me a spare 25 cal barrel.

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## 257weatherby

> 25-06 Remington round averages out to 2360 ft-lb, while a 7mm-08 Remington round averages out to about 2450 ft-lb.   So the 7mm08 has better knock down power, irrespective of your opinion.  And on my suppressed 7/08 I can keep on target through the follow through.  
> .243 has 8.8lb recoil, where 25/06 has 11, so science is against you on that score too.  7/08 with the 120's is 12.1 so there's less difference between 25/06 and 7/08 than there is with .243 and 25/06.   So, again, your opinion is science free.
> However, you're right about it being a good Wallaby calibre, though I can use 120g in 7/08 on wallabies, rabbits/hares with devastating results, as would be expected.
> 25/06 is a good enough calibre however it's limitations, based on science rather than opinion, mean there are better calibres available, in a larger range of projectiles, than the 25/06.  That's not opinion; that's actual, real, facts, as _evidenced_ above. 
> However, you seem determined that your opinion is worth more than the actual science, so good luck with that.  I'll stick with the science and the 7/08.


Perhaps you would like to share your actual practical experience with killing animals with a 2506, rather than cherry picked numbers from the internet to suit your given position. A typical load for me in a 2506 would be a 117 Sierra Prohunter, 120 Hornady Hp going 3200fps, or the 115 Nosler Bt or Berger VLD at a little more, my favorite long range Tahr killer is the Berger. Run the numbers on that- drift, drop, retained "energy".... I would point out that "energy" is a pretty useless determination of killing power unless you are talking frangible projectiles that completely disintegrate. To help prove your argument, discuss your projectile choices for the two cartridges, YOUR experience with them on game and why one is markedly better than the other.

Side note, just for you.
Roy Weatherby killed a Cape Buffalo with a .257 Wby, arguably the most dangerous game on the planet, I'll bet his PH was nervous, but he got it done.

----------


## Sideshow

> Can't believe we are on to page 11 about the 25-06


Yes but it has only taken 8 years @Shearer  :Thumbsup:  :XD:

----------


## Dama dama

> so for you melenials.......and anyone else still following this thread....... the point n shoot thing mentioned above was THE VERY REASON the likes of the poohseventy /EBRG and the likes got such a fine reputation back 40-50 years ago....compared to the other slower loads of the day taking a sucessful shot out to an ESTIMATED 300-350 yards was FAR MORE LIKELY to result in a kill..... the flatter trajectory helped no end,the common place carry of rangefinders/dialing up and trajectory charts has changed the ball game completely for some folks,they are doing now with technology what the american buffalo hunters were doing a hundred years ago with .45/70/405   or .45/90 or .45/110s and the likes,lobbing a projectile into a KNOWN curve to connect at a known range.
> some of us still basically use the rule of 3   when sighting in...in rough rounded terms it means my poohseventy will be 3" high at hundy,dead on at 270  and hold on backbone at 350ish.... it works for MOST rifles assuming a velocity of 2800-3100fps and a pointy bit coming out the end.
> if you know your rifle and know where its going to hit and are using a decent expanding projectile you can pretty much kill a deer as far as you can hold a 8" group.......BUT if your projectile is running out of ooomph and / or doesnt expand.....even the best shot can still result in a slow kill/runner.
> see Maxs thread on x39mm if you want to see how diferent folks think different strokes..... Ive killed a deer with .22 magnum,not ideal but its entirely plausable to do so....would I do it again??? yes but would be a lot more cleaver about projectile placement....
> with either the .25/06 or the 7mm/08   if you take out the front wheels,you deer is falling over dead. argueing which is better is a pure pissing contest...given a howling norwest wind either way your boots will get wet.


Great post @Micky Duck  "the rule of three" reminds me of the writing of Graham Henry of Rod & Rifle, one of the best gun writers of his day.  Its was he that made me start with a 270. I still have a hankering for a 25/06 too due to him and I will get one some stage.

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## erniec

The long calibers like the 30-06 and 270 and I guess the 25-06 feed into the chamber well.
Easy to stack as well.

----------


## Tussock

OK. Here goes. 

Back in the day, people sighted in like @mickey duck said. But this was the dark ages when @Tahr was out in a landrover somewhere and a calculator was something that you found at NASA. 

Everyone talked utter shit because a range finder had not been invented. Most of the 350m shots were 150m and the 350m misses were 650m. 

No one had a frame of reference so 270 was king because it was really fuck*n loud. 

25-06 was better because while still very loud, it kicked less. A 117g sst will kill a deer real dead. A 110gr accubond won't kill a Tahr if you miss. Mix a 90gr power point varmint round in by accident and you will blow a hole in a small snow covered pigs shoulder that will not slow it down. All of the above is from personal experience.

The flat shooting thing was always bolox. Once Nasa shared the calculator around, we realised it never mattered. 

A projectile cuts a 10" wound channel through a 10" kill zone, so to mess that up you need to be a lousy shot. 

The proper way to sight in in 1970 was to put targets at 25m intervals all the way to 350m and measure the fall of shot on your reticle at a fixed power. But as nobody had a clue how far anything was this was pointless anyway. You might as well stick with the 3" high and low nonsense.

Today we know that a 25-06 is so overbore that by the time it's properly sighted in, the barrel is shot out. My own 25-06 is now a .280 because you could see the first 30cm of barrel was completely fuck*ng melted, with heat cracks visible to the naked eye. The kind of barrel a gunsmith cuts in half for people to laugh at. 

Seems relatively pointless to melt barrels when if sighted in properly, something else will make the same 10" wound channel, with less noise, and the same mild recoil. 

Bullets range from American penetration obsessed monoliths to target bullets which are basically a small copper bag full of lead. Depending on what part of the animal you hit and at what speed, either will be superb or utterly useless. If you have a good or bad result, make sure to market it extensively on the internet.

Some bullets slow down and fly off course less than others. It's hard to argue these are not better. 25cal does not have these. Thus your barrel was scorched for very little gain. 

I would still own a 25-06

If all else fails, total and utter bullshit is as effective now as it was in 1970

I'm sure I ragged on 270 early in this thread. Recently I found out it was now universally uncool so I bought one. I like it a lot. 

350m is not a long way if you have a range finder and plenty of practice (if your barrel lasts).

As of today I have no fancy LR rig and a weird collection of ordinary rifles in ordinary callibres with ordinary scopes shooting ordinary ammo. All carefully zeroed all the way to 350m.

These are all fun to hunt with. 

I think I need a 25-06

----------


## stevodog

Yep, I tend to run lighter projectiles in my rifles with regular non-dial scopes. Sighted in 2inches high at 100 the trajectory is good from 0 to a small hold at 350.
260rem 120gr@2950 and 8 x 57 150gr@3050.  The 25-06 would work awesome this way.

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## Puffin

Take this to the extreme limit.  I have 75gr and 85gr Barnes-X in .257 for anyone interested.
Deer bullets at an MV of 3800 ft/sec from a 25-06.

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## Tussock

> Take this to the extreme limit.  I have 75gr and 85gr Barnes-X in .257 for anyone interested.
> Deer bullets at an MV of 3800 ft/sec from a 25-06.


Rifling is hugely over rated.

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## Micky Duck

> Hell yeah, it's great. Has accounted for every deer species in NZ apart from Sambar, Rusa and Waps. Don't think I will ever get rid of it.


so has my poohseventy....


oh and that cheap .25/06 isnt for sale anymore....it will be living in MY guncabinet for awhile......sort of wondering what will happen if it mates with my .270 what we will get as progony??? a 6.5/06 perhaps???

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## nor-west

> Take this to the extreme limit.  I have 75gr and 85gr Barnes-X in .257 for anyone interested.
> Deer bullets at an MV of 3800 ft/sec from a 25-06.


What will the 85gr do in the 257W, W760 should work?

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## Puffin

Same. No meaningful increase for the lighter bullets over the 25-06. Starting from 60gr I'd say.

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## Micky Duck

1000 rounds at 3 bullets to sight in and one per deer is a lifetimes hunting......
you DONT HAVE TO load things right up to envelope bending scorching speeds.....Im pretty sure we will be able to duplicate a EBRG type loading and have room to spare....should last much longer and be eaiser on all concerned....... never quite been able to work out why folk try to cram as much powder as possible into tiny case to try to get the velocity you can get with ease from a bigger case with less pressure......if you want weatherby magnum preformance...buy a weatherby magnum.

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## 257weatherby

> Don't have to be projectile specific. Most 25/06 hunters don't reload and a typical weight is round 110.  The typical weight in 7/08 is 140, although the SST's i use are 139g.  Comparing those commonly used rounds shows the benefit of the 7mm round.


You put up about this vs that, so prove your argument: what is your claim is based on, name the data you used. Unless of course it's just fairy dust........I'm patient, will give you time to go look some up......

Funnily enough, I just happen to know a whole bunch of actual hunters with 25/06 history,( and we all reload ) actually killing animals with them, oddly despite your being a subject matter expert on this subject, they (and I, with around 40yrs of it on and off) don't use the 110 anything.   

Along with your data, please include at least a rough kill count witnessed by you with your chosen 25/06 projectile and your chosen 7mm08 projectile. Include range, starting velocity and shot placement so I can begin to understand just how the 7mm08 is so superior to 25/06.

Perhaps I could help you there.....

----------


## outlander

Simple really. They made a 25/303.

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## 257weatherby

> Simple really. They made a 25/303.


A 25/303 imp would be interesting.

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## nor-west

A 25.06 will put a 100 grain partition through a camel shoulders, Anyone who thinks a 25.06 will bounce off a Red Stag needs to get behind one and see it work in the field not rely on foot pound/energy , ballistics or bullet weight tables.

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## 257weatherby

> A 25.06 will put a 100 grain partition through a camel shoulders, Anyone who thinks a 25.06 will bounce off a Red Stag needs to get behind one and see it work in the field not rely on foot pound/energy , ballistics or bullet weight tables.


It was a 100 grain Partition that Roy Weatherby used to kill his Cape Buff, that, is about as big a test as there is for any bullet/cartridge combination.

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## csmiffy

> A 25/303 imp would be interesting.


There was a guy called epps in canada that did that I think. He did the 303 as well as a 6mm, 25, 6.5, 8mm, 338 and 358.
Internet suggest it was the same as a 257 AI

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## Buzo

> Don't have to be projectile specific. Most 25/06 hunters don't reload and a typical weight is round 110.  The typical weight in 7/08 is 140, although the SST's i use are 139g.  Comparing those commonly used rounds shows the benefit of the 7mm round.


Hey I think you're starting to scrape the barrel a bit to defend yourself, if your not into 25-06 [and that's totally fine!] maybe you're best to go and start your own thread... the science and success of the great 708?? etc. 
Your negativity is kind of tainting this interesting and informative thread.

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## Micky Duck

most 25/06 users dont reload.....cough splutter...say WHAT????? I suppose most .22 / 243 users dont either????
6.5x55mm   yeah the vast majority of users buy off the shelf too.......cause its just soo good using a rifle at way below its best aye........
folk reload for many reasons.....the main ones are
#1 to try and save a few $$$
#2 to make taylor made loads that suit rifle better than off the shelf stuff
#3 to make loads different from off the shelf stuff...hotter,slower,heavier or lighter
#4 same reason as my dog licks its bits.....because they can

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## Tussock

For there to be any kind of factual ballistic argument for or against then that callibre needs at least a couple of good game killing projectiles with a BC of .5 or better. 

A round set up to shoot to longer ranges that does not have these is absurd. 

Burning up your barrel with a round thats badly wind affected makes no sense. 

The "flat shooting" thing being a myth because punch it into a ballistics calculator and you will see the projectiles inneficiency is more important than the high muzzle velocity.

If there was a projectile around the 115-120gr mark with a BC of .6 then 25-06 would be shit hot. There is no reason why one could not be made. 

What's the point of a hugely over bore short range chambering?

----------


## nor-west

> For there to be any kind of factual ballistic argument for or against then that callibre needs at least a couple of good game killing projectiles with a BC of .5 or better. 
> 
> A round set up to shoot to longer ranges that does not have these is absurd. 
> 
> Burning up your barrel with a round thats badly wind affected makes no sense. 
> 
> The "flat shooting" thing being a myth because punch it into a ballistics calculator and you will see the projectiles inneficiency is more important than the high muzzle velocity.
> 
> If there was a projectile around the 115-120gr mark with a BC of .6 then 25-06 would be shit hot. There is no reason why one could not be made. 
> ...


https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/2...6-5-creedmoor/

A good read.

----------


## 25 /08 IMP

> Robbie Tiffen rechambered a Tikka m55  to 25 Souper (25-08) for me.
> i'm running 100gn hornday with AR2209 (haven't chronographed it yet)
> 
> Its a perfect long range wallaby rig and fellow deer


It sure is a great Cal.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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## 257weatherby

Hey @nor-west he ( @Tussock ) is not looking for informed response, rather is dangling bait..... don't feed that particular Troll. The other protagonist in this end of the thread is just misguided and misinformed.

----------


## Kaweka2506

Enjoying this thread that much has prompted me to join NZ Hunting and shooting forum! Why has 2506 not achieved fame in NZ?? Because it is inefficient and when / if you get into researching ballistics / Calibers as many do their are simply more efficient calibers out there between 6mm - 7mm options which most divert to ahead of the 2506. Get past that and you are prepared to go inefficient, burn powder, make a Big Bang, have a looonnng action and barrel then the 2506 is one heck of a cartridge in nz and I think one of the coolest Calibers out there... I liken it to driving a v8 vs more economical vehicle alternatives😊. I have been shooting a 2506 since 1999 and took my last deer last weekend at 543 yards, admittedly that was probably a little irresponsible range wise and the deer required a finishing shot. The deer before that was at 508 yds and the shot went through the lower shoulder and heart. In both instances the projectile exited. Normal shooting ranges for me are between 50-300 yds and nearly all deer (sika) I have shot with the 2506 have fallen within 5 yds of where they have been shot. I currently shoot a Kimber 84l with a custom load from rivers to ranges in HB (Jem  & Scotty) using 117gn Sierra game kings doing 3130fps out of a 24 inch barrel. Pictures below are my last 2 sika out of my 2506. Having said all that my son has just got his first rifle in 6.5cr and Im really looking forward to seeing how that goes.

----------


## Micky Duck

> For there to be any kind of factual ballistic argument for or against then that callibre needs at least a couple of good game killing projectiles with a BC of .5 or better. 
> 
> A round set up to shoot to longer ranges that does not have these is absurd. 
> 
> Burning up your barrel with a round thats badly wind affected makes no sense. 
> 
> The "flat shooting" thing being a myth because punch it into a ballistics calculator and you will see the projectiles inneficiency is more important than the high muzzle velocity.
> 
> If there was a projectile around the 115-120gr mark with a BC of .6 then 25-06 would be shit hot. There is no reason why one could not be made. 
> ...


tell all that to the old time buffalo shooters who used .45 or .50 calibre black powder rounds at medium ranges to devastating effect.

----------


## csmiffy

From what I've seen from my 416 rem.mag with 350gr barnes at slower speed around the 2000fps mark it seems to work well. If it was something that mushroomed at that speed i can see how they liked it.
Mind you speed them up to 2500fps and you have something with 5000ftlb of energy and if it hits something solid it will hurt bigtime

----------


## Moa Hunter

> Enjoying this thread that much has prompted me to join NZ Hunting and shooting forum! Why has 2506 not achieved fame in NZ?? Because it is inefficient and when / if you get into researching ballistics / Calibers as many do their are simply more efficient calibers out there between 6mm - 7mm options which most divert to ahead of the 2506. Get past that and you are prepared to go inefficient, burn powder, make a Big Bang, have a looonnng action and barrel then the 2506 is one heck of a cartridge in nz and I think one of the coolest Calibers out there... I liken it to driving a v8 vs more economical vehicle alternatives. I have been shooting a 2506 since 1999 and took my last deer last weekend at 543 yards, admittedly that was probably a little irresponsible range wise and the deer required a finishing shot. The deer before that was at 508 yds and the shot went through the lower shoulder and heart. In both instances the projectile exited. Normal shooting ranges for me are between 50-300 yds and nearly all deer (sika) I have shot with the 2506 have fallen within 5 yds of where they have been shot. I currently shoot a Kimber 84l with a custom load from rivers to ranges in HB (Jem  & Scotty) using 117gn Sierra game kings doing 3130fps out of a 24 inch barrel. Pictures below are my last 2 sika out of my 2506. Having said all that my son has just got his first rifle in 6.5cr and I’m really looking forward to seeing how that goes.Attachment 132842Attachment 132843


Another thing to consider IMO is that a lot of projectiles available in the past as factory loads for 25 06 weren't really very good and gave poor results. Nowadays on the whole projectiles are better and can perform over a greater velocity range.

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## Moa Hunter

> Don't have to be projectile specific. Most 25/06 hunters don't reload and a typical weight is round 110.  The typical weight in 7/08 is 140, although the SST's i use are 139g.  Comparing those commonly used rounds shows the benefit of the 7mm round.


I have seen two deer shot with a 7m08 since December and actually cut one up last night. Two is a small sample I know, but do they always run 25-30 metres after being shot in the chest with full penetration and yet massive internal damage and hydraulic bruising. Appearing as if un-hit ?. I offered the loan of my 25 06 before, maybe I should have offered my dog ?

----------


## Max Headroom

> I have seen two deer shot with a 7m08 since December and actually cut one up last night. Two is a small sample I know, but do they always run 25-30 metres after being shot in the chest with full penetration and yet massive internal damage and hydraulic bruising. Appearing as if un-hit ?. I offered the loan of my 25 06 before, maybe I should have offered my dog ?


Last 2 I shot moved a total (combined) of 0.0 metres, unless you factor in the height that they fell.

On another note, I think I could succumb to the siren call of a 25/06 in a weak moment. The more I read, the more curious I get about trying one.

----------


## Tikka7mm08

My first rifle was a P14 303...all I could afford. As soon as the student loan $ came through I bought one of the first Browning A-Bolts (factory fluted bolt) and after much research in 25-06. It shot thar, wallabies, and a big close to 40x40 stag in the upper Waimak. 117gn hornady were good but I switched to 100gn hornady with 50gn 2209 - great load. The lack of a good bc and limited downrange energy are downsides.

----------


## Russian 22.

> My first rifle was a P14 303...all I could afford. As soon as the student loan $ came through I bought one of the first Browning A-Bolts (factory fluted bolt) and after much research in 25-06. It shot thar, wallabies, and a big close to 40x40 stag in the upper Waimak. 117gn hornady were good but I switched to 100gn hornady with 50gn 2209 - great load. The lack of a good bc and limited downrange energy are downsides.
> 
> 
> Attachment 133027


If it has those major down sides.

They why did you get it. Doesn't seem like it's good for anything in particular

----------


## Shearer

1200ft/lbs of energy is still pretty good at 600 yards but then if you were regularly shooting to 600 yards would you choose a 25-06?
Look at the difference in drop between the 25-06 and the CM!!!!!!

----------


## Tikka7mm08

I went to 7mmRM after 2506. Now 280AI instead of 7mmRM. I guess I evolved  :ORLY:

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## csmiffy

I wonder if any of the naysayers and people saying it shoots like shit long range remember that 25+years ago 400m was a bloody long shot.
Bugger all people were taking + 600m shots on game and if they said they were, you'd think they were talking shit unless you saw it yourself
Not many range finders around.
Up to 400m I'm sure it is way better than the smaller calibres regardless of the bc of the available projectiles
Different argument now as there is so much equipment and calibres that yes there are way better out there.
I'd still have one

----------


## Micky Duck

so plurry true that....see rule of three.....things have changed with rangefinders/drop charts and dial fiddling...... sub 400 yards,yeah nah point and shoot.

----------


## 257weatherby

> so plurry true that....see rule of three.....things have changed with rangefinders/drop charts and dial fiddling...... sub 400 yards,yeah nah point and shoot.


25/06 loaded properly: 3200fps with 115 Berger, G1 bc is .483 = 
+3" at 100yd                                                                           
+3.7" at 200yd
Zero at 300yd
-4" at 340yd
-10 at410yd "
 if you don't want velocity to do the killing, get a 7mm08.........

----------


## Micky Duck

so its the very same WHY the mighty poohseventy gained such a good name...the .25/06 has the same good points..and arguably the same bad.... trajectory that makes a sub 400 shot possible without fiddling with dials....not so flash of projectile selection...can damage a hell of a lot of meat up close......you cant make omlet without breaking eggs,destroying meat is side effect of good killing power LOL.

----------


## Buzo

> 25/06 loaded properly: 3200fps with 115 Berger, G1 bc is .483 = 
> +3" at 100yd                                                                           
> +3.7" at 200yd
> Zero at 300yd
> -4" at 340yd
> -10 at410yd "
> ........


Great load / set up for this cal. for South Island alpine hunting.
What rifle are you using? Barrel length, twist?

----------


## 257weatherby

> Great load / set up for this cal. for South Island alpine hunting.
> What rifle are you using? Barrel length, twist?


In no particular order:
Rem 700 24" 1/10 AR2225
Mk5 Wby - 24" Krieger - 1/10 twist . AR2217. IMR7828
Rem 700 24"Trueflight - 1/10 twist AR2217.
Sako L61r 24" 1/10 twist AR 2225 AR 2217. H1000
Browning Abolt 22" 1/10 AR 2209
Tikka T3 22.5" AR2217

Soon to have another 25/06 and do it again. The 115 Berger is an outstanding dead right there killer. The 115 NBT and 117 Prohunter are also dead set bolts of lightning. Converting .270 cases into something useful as we speak.

Anyone want to buy a .270 or .308?

----------


## Ground Control

> I wonder if any of the naysayers and people saying it shoots like shit long range remember that 25+years ago 400m was a bloody long shot.
> Bugger all people were taking + 600m shots on game and if they said they were, you'd think they were talking shit unless you saw it yourself


Amen to that .
Take everyone’s range finders off them today and see what calibers the long range (400m ) guys start to use .

----------


## Finnwolf

> so plurry true that....see rule of three.....things have changed with rangefinders/drop charts and dial fiddling...... sub 400 yards,yeah nah point and shoot.


I’m with you there MD!

For years I used CAC 180gr hollow points, never thought about aiming off etc

Things obligingly fell over dead if I did as I was meant to.

----------


## nor-west

> In no particular order:
> Rem 700 24" 1/10 AR2225
> Mk5 Wby - 24" Krieger - 1/10 twist . AR2217. IMR7828
> Rem 700 24"Trueflight - 1/10 twist AR2217.
> Sako L61r 24" 1/10 twist AR 2225 AR 2217. H1000
> Browning Abolt 22" 1/10 AR 2209
> Tikka T3 22.5" AR2217
> 
> Soon to have another 25/06 and do it again. The 115 Berger is an outstanding dead right there killer. The 115 NBT and 117 Prohunter are also dead set bolts of lightning. Converting .270 cases into something useful as we speak.
> ...


Or a 257 Weatherby even!!

----------


## Sideshow

God this great is almost......almost as bad as that 270 one :Sick:  :XD: 
Oh ever dug it up needs to bury it again :Thumbsup:

----------


## Rock river arms hunter

I'm really starting to feel like apologising for the sh!tfest I created here how many years ago! :XD:

----------


## Pommy

> I'm really starting to feel like apologising for the sh!tfest I created here how many years ago!


Don't. This has been an amusing thread revival.

I'm going to keep shooting 107TMK's (.445 G1) from my 6.5 @ 3250, using 20gr less powder than a *-06, and wonder why people bother with a 25cal. 6 Creed looks interesting too with 95-115's going 3K+ ... Makes inefficient and overbore '06 case based cartridges look a bit redundant IMO.

----------


## stevodog

Till you get 6.5 and above

----------


## Steelisreal

> Don't. This has been an amusing thread revival.
> 
> I'm going to keep shooting 107TMK's (.445 G1) from my 6.5 @ 3250, using 20gr less powder than a *-06, and wonder why people bother with a 25cal. 6 Creed looks interesting too with 95-115's going 3K+ ... Makes inefficient and overbore '06 case based cartridges look a bit redundant IMO.


 @Pommy - I never realised you were interested in fishing?!?

----------


## Pommy

You should try it some time  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Kaweka2506

Rock river arms hunter (heck of a handle lol) ... After 8 years and 200+ posts I think your original question should be rephrased to a statement... 25-06 has achieved fame and success in New Zealand!!

----------


## jakewire

Four hundred yards is still a bloody long hunting shot.

----------


## Max Headroom

> I'm really starting to feel like apologising for the sh!tfest I created here how many years ago!


It's been an interesting shitfest. I knew zip about the 25/06 before this.

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## Rock river arms hunter

> Rock river arms hunter (heck of a handle lol) ... After 8 years and 200+ posts I think your original question should be rephrased to a statement... 25-06 has achieved fame and success in New Zealand!!


Cheers for that !  Back in the good old days of hunting with my Predator pursuit.  Sadly no more :Oh Noes:

----------


## Tikka7mm08

> Cheers for that !  Back in the good old days of hunting with my Predator pursuit.  Sadly no more


Man, I miss my Predator Pursuit. Fine AR.

----------


## trooper90

Never this much talking about a .270

----------


## rewa

> Rock river arms hunter (heck of a handle lol) ... After 8 years and 200+ posts I think your original question should be rephrased to a statement... 25-06 has achieved fame and success in New Zealand!!


It sort-of has now!

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## rewa

If you had only one calibre, and it was accurate, thats what you'd use..and it would always work, because you would make it so. I have traded a few good rifles over the years, for something newer, shiny-er, and a better calibre. Because that was what I believed, at the time. Sometimes it was, other times it wasnt. Same with motorcycles, I still wish I had my old 750GTS Duke; great trajectory and the BC would bring a tear to your eye

----------


## rewa

> https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/2...6-5-creedmoor/
> 
> A good read.


Well I've just read and watched it, I can see it IS much shiny-er and better than my other calibres, so now I want one.. no wonder my my wife gets that look in her eye... now .. what can I sell

----------


## Sideshow

Got any toilet paper? :XD:

----------


## Micky Duck

nah shelves are full of pooh paper again....got any flour or white sugar???

----------


## rewa

Are you dating a fat girl ?

----------


## csmiffy

@rewa you forgot the bookmark
I still cant understand the dislike for the 2506
Back in the day the 250-3000 was a cracker.
I know it was hampered a little by the 87gr pill but I remember hearing about it from some old timers that seemed to like it. The 257 Robert's has a lot of love for it and the 2506 is just more of the same.
Yes it's a longer case than the others but performance wise it still worked and has more punch than 243s etc.

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## csmiffy

6.5 creedmore has a man bun

----------


## Nickoli

> 6.5 creedmore has a man bun


…. and herpes....

----------


## grandpamac

> @rewa you forgot the bookmark
> I still cant understand the dislike for the 2506
> Back in the day the 250-3000 was a cracker.
> I know it was hampered a little by the 87gr pill but I remember hearing about it from some old timers that seemed to like it. The 257 Robert's has a lot of love for it and the 2506 is just more of the same.
> Yes it's a longer case than the others but performance wise it still worked and has more punch than 243s etc.


We need to remember that the .250 Savage aka .250-3,000 came out in 1915. What else was around at that time? Not much. .257 Roberts 1934. .270 Win 1925. Plus it came out in a handy and light (for the time) lever action. The .25-06, although a wildcat from the 1920's, came out as a factory cartridge in 1969. What was around then? Shit loads. Pretty well all the top sellers today. Combine that with a slow twist barrel and consequent lack of high BC projectiles and we are lucky to still have it today. Would it have done any better as a factory round in 1920? Probably not. Suitable powders did not appear until the 1940's. If you like the .25-06 make sure to get one while you still can.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## csmiffy

@grandapamac you are right but it came out the same time as the Roberts but didn't take off until the late 40s when better powders came along. Bit like the 270.
It was doing well for 20 odd years before it was made a factory cartidge

----------


## grandpamac

> @grandapamac you are right but it came out the same time as the Roberts but didn't take off until the late 40s when better powders came along. Bit like the 270.
> It was doing well for 20 odd years before it was made a factory cartidge


Greetings again,
Regrettably not all wildcat cartridges make the transition to factory offerings. The .22 Gebby Varminter, now .22-250 Remington is a notable exception. Ballistics achieved by the wildcatters is often at the expense of super high pressures if they are achieved at all. Manufacturers drop slower moving cartridges in favor of something new and sparkly regardless of merit. I guess we need to be grateful for what we do get.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## gregdudehunter

25/06 Decision.  Righto you guys i need some help. I have a 25/06 in a Parker hale with a 24 inch barrel with a 1-10 twist that I bought new in 1977 in Aussie.  I have always used the Sierra 120 hpbt as that has been the heaviest available back then and still not much has changed. Shot pigs and goats with it over the ditch and only a couple of fallow and reds here. Buuut it has never been my go to gun because with the short light barrel it has a lot of muzzle jump and a loud blast. I love the gun and cant bring myself to thread the barrel and fit a suppressor so I havent fired a shot out of it in ten years but because it fills the gap between 22 and 30 cal I have had it in my mind to build a gun up to best utilise the cartridge. So the time has come and doing research has brought up the 257 wm as a serious contender in the same caliber. As far as I have been able to find Trueflite ar the only ones with a reamer for the weatherby but only do a 1-10 twist barrel. Vulcan can do down to a 1-7.5     I want to be able to run heavier bullets at faster speeds because of what they do and the longer ranges they give you   Hammer Bullets do a solid copper 128 but they will custom make for you and theres Black jack and Swift. So I am leaning toward the Weatherby. I want to go to a 28 inch barrel with either cartridge to get the most out of the case. So what are your thoughts. 


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## Micky Duck

load 100grn in what you have got.....and try out some of the barnes in about there too if you have the itch...... looking in manuals it appears the 100grn is the balance of weight VS speed the easiest to get most of both.....insaying that anything over 3000fps is going to be good.....if you are looking to ditch barrel to rebarrel anyway..thread the plurry thing and go try it,you are either going to love it or not....and if its not you havent wasted $$$$$ as can put the can on new barrel....if you think your 25/06 has blast and jump,anything bigger is going to be more so.

----------


## 25 /08 IMP

Have a look at the Blackjack Ace 131 bullets they also do alot of different 25 cal.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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## Husky1600

Bloody hell!...just when I thought this thread up and died again, it comes back to life. I cant see why a PH with a 24" barrel would have any more muzzle jump or blast than any other similar calibre - my 25-06 was a 23" barrel on a VZ33 action and it was a pleasure to shoot with 117's. If you have a hankering for another 25 then I say go for it, gather up your bits and make your rifle, definitely sounds like a nice choice. There will be some that suggest you change to a 6.5 or maybe another calibre because of x y z, but dont listen to them. And then post up your progress as you proceed, a lot of us will be interested to live vicariously. I have a hankering for another 25, but Im going the opposite way and hope to build a nice compact 250-3000 with maybe a 20" barrel, just to scratch an itch and to fill a gap in my unsafe.

----------


## 257weatherby

> 25/06 Decision.  Righto you guys i need some help. I have a 25/06 in a Parker hale with a 24 inch barrel with a 1-10 twist that I bought new in 1977 in Aussie.  I have always used the Sierra 120 hpbt as that has been the heaviest available back then and still not much has changed. Shot pigs and goats with it over the ditch and only a couple of fallow and reds here. Buuut it has never been my go to gun because with the short light barrel it has a lot of muzzle jump and a loud blast. I love the gun and can’t bring myself to thread the barrel and fit a suppressor so I haven’t fired a shot out of it in ten years but because it fills the gap between 22 and 30 cal I have had it in my mind to build a gun up to best utilise the cartridge. So the time has come and doing research has brought up the 257 wm as a serious contender in the same caliber. As far as I have been able to find Trueflite ar the only ones with a reamer for the weatherby but only do a 1-10 twist barrel. Vulcan can do down to a 1-7.5     I want to be able to run heavier bullets at faster speeds because of what they do and the longer ranges they give you   Hammer Bullets do a solid copper 128 but they will custom make for you and there’s Black jack and Swift. So I am leaning toward the Weatherby. I want to go to a 28 inch barrel with either cartridge to get the most out of the case. So what are your thoughts. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For god's sake sell it to someone who will love it as a 25/06! - get something else to bastardize!

----------


## 257weatherby

> Bloody hell!...just when I thought this thread up and died again, it comes back to life. I cant see why a PH with a 24" barrel would have any more muzzle jump or blast than any other similar calibre - my 25-06 was a 23" barrel on a VZ33 action and it was a pleasure to shoot with 117's. If you have a hankering for another 25 then I say go for it, gather up your bits and make your rifle, definitely sounds like a nice choice. There will be some that suggest you change to a 6.5 or maybe another calibre because of x y z, but dont listen to them. And then post up your progress as you proceed, a lot of us will be interested to live vicariously. I have a hankering for another 25, but Im going the opposite way and hope to build a nice compact 250-3000 with maybe a 20" barrel, just to scratch an itch and to fill a gap in my unsafe.


.257 Roberts in a modern action would be nice too.

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## Micky Duck

> For god's sake sell it to someone who will love it as a 25/06! - get something else to bastardize!


like you..........lol

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## gregdudehunter

Sorry the photos are upside down. So the first photo is of my 25 as it is today. The only scope I have ever had on it which is a tasco 4-12x56 Ausinel bridge mount. Barrel and action coated by HPC in Brisbane and bolt Parkerised by Status guns in Invercargill so you can see why i dont want to touch this gun @257weatherby.  The next shot is the new Boyds stock I bought for the project and the doner action and 30/06 barrel which i will get pulled when lockdown is over. What I was hoping @257weatherby was that you would talk me into using your namesake instead of the 06. Lol. Have you tried both?  I just did the cartridge comparison between the 224 I use and 30 cal. I like fast guns and fast cars which I can still handle but have given up on fast women 


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## gregdudehunter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## gregdudehunter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## gregdudehunter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Micky Duck

SERIOUSLY  dude you cant bastardise a thing of beauty like that....

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## gregdudehunter

No mate I wont be   Will build the new gun on the other action and Boyds stock. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Micky Duck

is that a HP Savage????round I spy there...

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## gregdudehunter

> is that a HP Savage????round I spy there...


Thats a poor mans Swift.  22-303 full length. In Aussie there were one or two shorter lengths. I am using hornady 75 sst in that one 


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## Micky Duck

thought it was too big n fat for a savage hp....... you DO like speed LOL.

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## 257weatherby

> Sorry the photos are upside down. So the first photo is of my 25 as it is today. The only scope I have ever had on it which is a tasco 4-12x56 Ausinel bridge mount. Barrel and action coated by HPC in Brisbane and bolt Parkerised by Status guns in Invercargill so you can see why i don’t want to touch this gun @257weatherby.  The next shot is the new Boyd’s stock I bought for the project and the doner action and 30/06 barrel which i will get pulled when lockdown is over. What I was hoping @257weatherby was that you would talk me into using your namesake instead of the 06. Lol. Have you tried both?  I just did the cartridge comparison between the 224 I use and 30 cal. I like fast guns and fast cars which I can still handle but have given up on fast women 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Load the 25/06 properly and you can get .257 Wby mag book velocity, you really gain 150-200 fps at most, if, you know how to get it in the first place - been there/done that, prefer 25/06, feel like I need one again.

----------


## gregdudehunter

Thanks mate I appreciate your advice 


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## tetawa

> .257 Roberts in a modern action would be nice too.


+1

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## csmiffy

> .257 Roberts in a modern action would be nice too.


you read in the US stuff about the occasional batch of Winchester 70's (I think) that used to come up in 257 Roberts. Went like hot cakes

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## Strummer

A good read! 
My 25-06 seems to bowl over anything I put in front of it. Haven't stretched it's legs beyond 250m as I tend to get closer where possible. Smacked another deer over the weekend. Bang flop. Playing with handloads and currently have got it grouping .6 of an inch so far. Still trialling seating depths.

I like the v8 analogy someone said earlier...yes it uses a bit of fuel but that just adds to the overall experience!

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## northdude

just like the 6.5 06

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## gimp

> A good read! 
> My 25-06 seems to bowl over anything I put in front of it. Haven't stretched it's legs beyond 250m as I tend to get closer where possible. Smacked another deer over the weekend. Bang flop.


Almost as good as a .223!

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## grandpamac

Greetings All,
I am really surprised that this thread has gone on so long. I don't own a .25-06 and never have but here is my two pence worth anyway. I think that the basic problem for the .25-06 is that it doesn't do things much better than a lot of smaller cartridges like the .257 Roberts and not quite as well as larger cartridges like the 6.5 mm and .270. The standard 1 in 10" twist limits its projectiles to 120 grains and rightly or wrongly it has gained a reputation as a barrel burner. Some of the current crop of 6.5mm cartridges leave it for dead. It's that simple.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## 257weatherby

> Greetings All,
> I am really surprised that this thread has gone on so long. I don't own a .25-06 and never have but here is my two pence worth anyway. I think that the basic problem for the .25-06 is that it doesn't do things much better than a lot of smaller cartridges like the .257 Roberts and not quite as well as larger cartridges like the 6.5 mm and .270. The standard 1 in 10" twist limits its projectiles to 120 grains and rightly or wrongly it has gained a reputation as a barrel burner. Some of the current crop of 6.5mm cartridges leave it for dead. It's that simple.
> Regards Grandpamac.


Showing off how much you don't know.

----------


## Nickoli

> Showing off how much you don't know.


....Please enlighten us, where is he wrong?  :XD:

----------


## grandpamac

Greetings 257 Weatherby and All,
I didn't say the .25-06 is not a good cartridge but that it was not popular due to the reasons I outlined. I just checked the current offerings from Reloaders and out of 92 rifles none were 25 calibre let alone any in .25-06. 18 6.5mm, most of them Creedmoor's were listed. I believe it was more popular in the past but not today. The OP asked the question why it was not more popular so perhaps that is what needs to be addressed.
Regards Grandpamac

----------


## Bos

I was persuaded a while back when getting a custom rifle built, to consider a 6.5 - 06
So put simply, a 6.5 projectile sitting on top of a 25 06 case
At present Ive got a 143 Gr ELD X at 2870 fps and grouping about .4 of an inch at 100 yds. Not being a benchrest shooter, small groups and reasonable velocity are only important to allow me to knock over what I put the crosshairs on. So far the 6.5 06 has proved to be a great choice even though I was sceptical at the start; I can confidently kill an animal at 100 yds and then dial up a bit of elevation and repeat the process out to (so far) 480 yds. 
While there might not be a lot of popularity now for the 25-06, if you replace the 25 with 6.5 then you've got a pretty much perfect calibre for anything you're likely to come accross. Only downside is there is no factory ammo available so this will be the one single issue that will disadvantage the 6.5 06. Certainly worth considering if youre a handloader

----------


## 257weatherby

> Greetings 257 Weatherby and All,
> I didn't say the .25-06 is not a good cartridge but that it was not popular due to the reasons I outlined. I just checked the current offerings from Reloaders and out of 92 rifles none were 25 calibre let alone any in .25-06. 18 6.5mm, most of them Creedmoor's were listed. I believe it was more popular in the past but not today. The OP asked the question why it was not more popular so perhaps that is what needs to be addressed.
> Regards Grandpamac


You made a definitive statement, I'll come back to you tonight.

----------


## 257weatherby

> ....Please enlighten us, where is he wrong?


Bitecha bum, open your popcorn, and wait for later.

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## Nickoli

> You made a definitive statement, I'll come back to you tonight.


Not sure when prefacing a point with "I think that the basic problem ...." became a definitive statement. But then, any calibre argument is going to bring out the fanboys on both sides  :XD:

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## veitnamcam

> I was persuaded a while back when getting a custom rifle built, to consider a 6.5 - 06
> So put simply, a 6.5 projectile sitting on top of a 25 06 case
> At present Ive got a 143 Gr ELD X at 2870 fps and grouping about .4 of an inch at 100 yds. Not being a benchrest shooter, small groups and reasonable velocity are only important to allow me to knock over what I put the crosshairs on. So far the 6.5 06 has proved to be a great choice even though I was sceptical at the start; I can confidently kill an animal at 100 yds and then dial up a bit of elevation and repeat the process out to (so far) 480 yds. 
> While there might not be a lot of popularity now for the 25-06, if you replace the 25 with 6.5 then you've got a pretty much perfect calibre for anything you're likely to come accross. Only downside is there is no factory ammo available so this will be the one single issue that will disadvantage the 6.5 06. Certainly worth considering if youre a handloader


And thats why the PRC is so popular already.
Its a 6.5-06 that has factory ammo and brass and even fits in a short action (just)
Tho all things 6.5 are in short supply at the mo things will catch up.

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## Tahr

> You made a definitive statement, I'll come back to you tonight.


 :Have A Nice Day:  After 18 pages it doesn't look like too many people are convinced.

But truth is, if it was the only caliber available here you could still grab your rifle and kill any NZ animal at a reasonable distance, without a fuss.

The 110 Nosler hooning along at a good speed sounds like ok medicine.

----------


## 25 /08 IMP

> I was persuaded a while back when getting a custom rifle built, to consider a 6.5 - 06
> So put simply, a 6.5 projectile sitting on top of a 25 06 case
> At present Ive got a 143 Gr ELD X at 2870 fps and grouping about .4 of an inch at 100 yds. Not being a benchrest shooter, small groups and reasonable velocity are only important to allow me to knock over what I put the crosshairs on. So far the 6.5 06 has proved to be a great choice even though I was sceptical at the start; I can confidently kill an animal at 100 yds and then dial up a bit of elevation and repeat the process out to (so far) 480 yds. 
> While there might not be a lot of popularity now for the 25-06, if you replace the 25 with 6.5 then you've got a pretty much perfect calibre for anything you're likely to come accross. Only downside is there is no factory ammo available so this will be the one single issue that will disadvantage the 6.5 06. Certainly worth considering if youre a handloader


The problem being the 6.5/06 and the 25/06 were always said to need a 24" barrel to get the best out of them. I've had both over the years and love the .25 cal I just wish they made more high BC pills for them, then I would have another 25/08.
I see you 6.5/06 speeds with the 143 ELDX are almost the same as a 20" .260 which will use less powder, which is why I don't have a 6.5/06 anymore. 

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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## 257weatherby

> Greetings All,
> I am really surprised that this thread has gone on so long. I don't own a .25-06 and never have but here is my two pence worth anyway. I think that the basic problem for the .25-06 is that it doesn't do things much better than a lot of smaller cartridges like the .257 Roberts and not quite as well as larger cartridges like the 6.5 mm and .270. The standard 1 in 10" twist limits its projectiles to 120 grains and rightly or wrongly it has gained a reputation as a barrel burner. Some of the current crop of 6.5mm cartridges leave it for dead. It's that simple.
> Regards Grandpamac.


Righto, give me some basis for your opinion, not something your wife heard from her hairdresser that heard it from a girl who's boyfriend heard it from a bloke who talked to a bloke who read it on the internet, posted by a guy who heard about it from a mate who once talked to a bloke who saw one once......

My basis for opinion is this: Over nearly 40 yrs I have shot animals with everything from 338 Lap down to .243 and most mainstream cartridges in between. (Except 30/06, somehow that never happened)  I've had 7 25/06's in that time, only 2 of them did not stay long in my possession and that had nothing to do with their ability to kill stuff. Two of those 25's had their barrels shot out.  Most of the cartridges (lets leave out the actual magnums) that I hear bla bla better than 25/06, I have used to actually kill stuff with - so I have direct experience to draw comparison with, not hearsay. The only real criteria I have, is that whatever I carry, it has to be able to kill cleanly with one shot, 25/06 has never failed me. Oddly neither has .243, my current goto for anything on legs. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I did love my 300 Weatherby though, that thing was dynamite on Tahr! I know where a 691 in 25/06 can be found if anybody had a hankering .

----------


## grandpamac

Greetings 257 Weatherby and All,
In his opening post Rock river arms hunter, clearly a fan of the 25-06, asked the question why it was more popular in NZ. Clearly both of you have had excellent results and I don't dispute that. I also don't dispute that the 25-06 is not an excellent cartridge but the question posed by RRAH was not if it was any good but why it was not more popular and my comments addressed that. Although Remington introduced the 25-06 late in 1969 it had already been a semi wildcat for 50 years at least. I seem to remember that it was quite popular after introduction but since then laser range finders have made flat trajectory less desirable than heavier high BC projectiles that are less deflected by the breeze. No projectile manufacturer is going to develop high BC projectile if there are no rifles that can stabilise them. 
The cartridge market is a fickle place. Decisions by rifle purchasers are often made for reasons far removed from how well they perform. Most people like something new and there is plenty of new about at the moment but not much for the 25 calibre. I thought that FN/ Winchester dropped the ball by not using a faster twist in the 25 WSSM to allow some higher BC projectiles but it has flopped for various reasons.
In summary to both you and RRAH enjoy your 25 calibre rifles, they work just as well as they ever did, or better with some of the newer projectiles but I think they are likely to continue to lose market share to the 6.5 cartridges especially the PRC. 
Finally like you I am a fan of the less popular cartridges, the 6.5 x 55 and 7mm SAUM being examples in my rifle cupboard and I do have 25-06 and 257 Roberts dies so one day perhaps.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## csmiffy

Always wanted one but never got one.
Only know 2 people that have/had them and both like them very much

----------


## Tahr

The government are likely to ban the 25-06. They dont want people crawling around in the bush looking for lost and wounded animals when they could instead be working hard to earn money so they can pay their tax.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Nickoli

> The government are likely to ban the 25-06. They don’t want people crawling around in the bush looking for lost and wounded animals when they could instead be working hard to earn money so they can pay their tax.


.... @Tahr - are you alright mate?  :Psmiley:  - Comments like that suggest you are looking for an argument.....whether it's caliber related, government related, bullshit related....whatever.....  :XD:

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## Tahr

> .... @Tahr - are you alright mate?  - Comments like that suggest you are looking for an argument.....whether it's caliber related, government related, bullshit related....whatever.....


Hah, I’m sure some people could find an argument in anything. It’s well proven on here.

----------


## Nickoli

> Hah, I’m sure some people could find an argument in anything. It’s well proven on here.


......Couldn't agree more - myself included at times - but your comment (as I read it) is a rebuke to a government intent on banning things...because they can...

----------


## Tahr

> ......Couldn't agree more - myself included at times - but your comment (as I read it) is a rebuke to a government intent on banning things...because they can...


Nah it’s a comment on the irony of getting upset about the effectiveness or not of a bit of copper and lead.

----------


## grandpamac

Greetings All, 
Noticed an error in the third sentence which should have read: I also don't dispute that the 25-06 is an excellent cartridge ......
Grandpamac.

----------


## gimp

> Hah, I’m sure some people could find an argument in anything. It’s well proven on here.


bullshit

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## Tahr

> bullshit


Nice. The younger generation than me would say I saw what you did there.

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## Tahr

A case’s head stamp has never killed a deer.

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## Rock river arms hunter

I still can't believe this thread is going  :XD: 

The irony being I haven't owned a 25-06 for years.

I find myself grabbing the trusty 308 more often than not. However if funds allowed and I didn't love my 284win then I'd buy a 25-06 again in a heartbeat.

I've come to the conclusion it doesn't matter what you use , if you're confident and competent with it and it works.... who really cares? Is a deer going to tell you the difference between a 25-06 and a 270 at a given range? I would think not in the real world sense

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## Padox

I cut my teeth on a 2506 and now with most of my hunting being fallow if I could afford it I'd go back to 1 in a heart beat

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## Pushover

Never shot one. Been told they kill like lightening at moderate ranges. I think like the 270, their day in the sun was when dially scopes were a rarity and long MPBR had its merits.
The high bc 6.5 and 7mm bullets start climbing away from the 2506 after ~400m in terms of wind drift and energy on target in similar and smaller cartridges.

All a moot point for me where 200m is a long shot where I employ a range of cartridges including shortly a 250savage

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## Moa Hunter

The single biggest historical problem with 2506 has been a lack of projectiles that can perform at high muzzle velocity and also at range.  A muzzle velocity of 3300 -3400 and 100 metre shots plays havoc with non bonded projectiles.
Although based on an 06 case the 2506 has a totally different recoil  impulse compared to a 270 and is very easy to shoot accurately.
Meat damage is low. I average 2 litres of shot trim per carcass with a 2506. I dont think paper figures do it justice.

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## grandpamac

Greetings All,
To Rock river arms hunter you must be amazed at the number of new wonder cartridges, some excellent, that have appeared since your opening post almost 9 years ago. Some of which have already sunk without trace. Performance and popularity are clearly unrelated. Sometimes a new cartridge captures the shooting publics notice and it's popularity sky rockets as has happened with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Norma factory loads for the 6.5 x 55 offered similar performance to the Creedmoor decades ago but is often ignored today (not by me though). Pushover you are to be congratulated on your choice of the .250 Savage, the great great grand daddy of the Creedmoor. I would be interested to know more about your rifle.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## Pushover

Hi Mac, I have 2. Both well used 50s rifles. 1is an FN Mauser and the other a savage99.

Being 14twist I've loaded up some 90gr hpbt though haven't shot them yet.

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## grandpamac

> Hi Mac, I have 2. Both well used 50s rifles. 1is an FN Mauser and the other a savage99.
> 
> Being 14twist I've loaded up some 90gr hpbt though haven't shot them yet.


Greetings Pushover,
Thanks for that. I half remembered a post on your rifles but was too lazy to go back and find it. Will do that now. Accommodating that slow twist will be an interesting exercise. Please keep us informed. I think in over 50 years of wandering in the bush I have come across just one hunter carrying a .250 Savage and it was built on a Remington 600 action. That 99 will draw some attention.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## zimmer

About a year ago I did load development for a mate's 250-3000 in a Ruger Mk1 FW.
100 gr Partitions at 2800 fps using 2206H powder.
Pleasant to shoot and accurate despite the FW Rugers not always being the best. 
Near to the ADI max but no pressure signs.

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## csmiffy

> About a year ago I did load development for a mate's 250-3000 in a Ruger Mk1 FW.
> 100 gr Partitions at 2800 fps using 2206H powder.
> Pleasant to shoot and accurate despite the FW Rugers not always being the best. 
> Near to the ADI max but no pressure signs.


  @zimmer silly question, but how did the partitions go out of it? Shoot any deer with it?

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## Pushover

Yeah, that would be a 10 twist. I'm going to check the accuracy potential with a known bullet before finding a short 100gr that shoots acceptably

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## zimmer

> @zimmer silly question, but how did the partitions go out of it? Shoot any deer with it?


Mate has yet to try it on game. At the same time I did loads for him in 7mm08 and 7x57 (also a Ruger International FW) so in terms of trying the 250 loads on game the rifle is a bit down the selection pile. Also I don't think the Rugers will get treated to a beat em up rough hunt (mm safe queens springs to mind). His normal calibre of choice for a long time has been the 6.5x55, nothing flash, ex military with better stock. And I know he has always used partitions wherever possible. He's also well into projectile recovery from shot animals and then assessing the effectiveness.

The Partitions are expensive of course.

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## grandpamac

> Yeah, that would be a 10 twist. I'm going to check the accuracy potential with a known bullet before finding a short 100gr that shoots acceptably


Greetings Pushover,
By chance I was reading one of the old issues of Handloader last night and spotted an article by John Barsness on loading the Savage cartridges. He suggested that the Hornady 75 grain V-MAX, 100 grain spitzer flat base and 117 grain round nose are worth trying. He also cautioned that some 99 250 Savage rifles twists vary either side of 14" and may not stabilise anything longer than the 87 grain Hornady or Speer spitzer flat base. The 90 grain HPBT projectiles may or may not stabilise, measuring the twist in each rifle could help. Unfortunately Hornady seems to have dropped both the 87 and 100 grain projectiles. The Hodgdon/ADI data shows over 2,900 fps with AR2209 and the 100 grain projectiles so the cartridge is no slug. Happy experimenting.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## Pushover

Hi GPM,
These twists are  near enough to 14.
Shame Hornady stopped making the 87 and 100gr sp.

I would go for the speer 87gr if they were in stock. The sierra 90gr hpbt is pretty short and is a known good bullet for them as well. There's also the 85gr pro hunter in stock to try.

Interestingly, I've got a box of factory winchester super ammo with it as well as some Barnes 85gr Handloads. I can't imagine they went too well and I don't know who loaded them so Ill deconstruct them.

Ill get a range day in next week to try. Hope to have some sika stags come in to the call on Mon Tuesday. Reds been piss poor for me this year. Might scout further south for next year.

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## grandpamac

> Hi GPM,
> These twists are  near enough to 14.
> Shame Hornady stopped making the 87 and 100gr sp.
> 
> I would go for the speer 87gr if they were in stock. The sierra 90gr hpbt is pretty short and is a known good bullet for them as well. There's also the 85gr pro hunter in stock to try.
> 
> Interestingly, I've got a box of factory winchester super ammo with it as well as some Barnes 85gr Handloads. I can't imagine they went too well and I don't know who loaded them so Ill deconstruct them.
> 
> Ill get a range day in next week to try. Hope to have some sika stags come in to the call on Mon Tuesday. Reds been piss poor for me this year. Might scout further south for next year.


Greetings Pushover,
I have most of a box of the obsolete Hornady 87 grain spitzer here if your current options don't pan out and you want to try something different. I could send you a few to try. The 85 grain game kings could be a better option though.
Regards Grandpamac

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## Pushover

Thanks GPM, ill keep that in mind

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## Puffin

@Pushover, what are your specific concerns with the 85gr Barnes-X hand loads please ?  
I found the Barnes-X 75grFB, 85grFB, and 90grBT all performed on deer as expected in the .257 Roberts, and I would have thought it would be worth at least checking if they are stabilised in your rifle.

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## Pushover

Yeah, think the jbm calc said they're shit, but yeah would defo be a good pill if they shot ok.

Ill reload up the 8 that I have and see how they go.

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## Tikka7mm08

After 20 pages I've forgotten if I chipped in or not. Old age. 

My first rifle after my P14 303 was a Browning A-Bolt in 25-06 - the 60deg bolt lift with length wise fluted bolt was a laser. I was determined to get my first wild deer with it solo hunting the Waimak above Klondike Corner...and in early 1996 did that in the Crow River with 39x40 Red Stag (8 big points and 1 little one, it scored just over 277DS from memory). It loved 2209 and 100grain Hornadys - and flattened big pigs well too. I loaded 25-06 for a friend and he used his well accounting for a lot of deer.

A great caliber in my opinion. I like it more than 243 but perhaps not as much 260 or 7mm calibers if I set aside the nostalgia.

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## Pushover

After 20 pages I've forgotten if I chipped in or not. Old age.


 :Thumbsup:

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## Finnwolf

Is there such a thing as a 25/08?

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## Tikka7mm08

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...25+Souper.html

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## Basenjiboy

I have a 25-08 built on a Tikka m55 - with a 24 inch barrel not much slower than my 22 inch barreled Tikka T3 25-06.

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## Moa Hunter

> I have a 25-08 built on a Tikka m55 - with a 24 inch barrel not much slower than my 22 inch barreled Tikka T3 25-06.


I think a 2508 AI would be perfect !

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## Rees

> Is there such a thing as a 25/08?


but not worth the hassle with the bro .243 n .260 rems sitting sweetly either side

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## nor-west

> I think a 2508 AI would be perfect !


Nah 257AI........ :Thumbsup:  would like to AI my Savage .250 but can't find a reamer anywhere in N.Z.

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## Pushover

I might be interested in going halves in a reamer   @nor-west if my ones shoot well enough.

What rifle is your 250 in?

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## 25 /08 IMP

> Is there such a thing as a 25/08?


Yip there sure is I had one as my only rifle for years, I also wrote an article for NZ guns about my one many years ago, is also called the 25 souper.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

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## Spitfire

After 21 pages I guess .25-06 has achieved sufficient interest, and rightly so. I have had three over the years and shot a hatful of deer with them. 

If I was to have another it would be barreled and chambered for the 131 Blackjack bullets with fast enough twist to stabilise them. 

For now I have moved on to .284 Win as an NZ all-rounder.

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## Moa Hunter

> Nah 257AI........ would like to AI my Savage .250 but can't find a reamer anywhere in N.Z.


I remember that the 250 AI had a huge increase over the standard round - something like 25% which was the biggest increase Ackley had with any modern rimless case

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## zimmer

There ya go. Obviously some of the recent "Ackley Improved" are not on the list. Keeping in mind that the recent AIs were obviously never developed by P O Ackley himself. That includes some on the list. 

Ackley Improved Info.pdf

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## Pushover

Interesting numbers. Is it reasonable to just fire std loads to fireform and then neck size only for subsequent loads?

Ie, not using Ackley dies at all

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## Mathias

> Interesting numbers. Is it reasonable to just fire std loads to fireform and then neck size only for subsequent loads?
> 
> Ie, not using Ackley dies at all


Yep, I did that for years with my 257AI. Eventually though I really needed to bump the shoulder on my brass as bolt close was getting tight after about 8-10 firings.

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## zimmer

True Ackley designs have a crossover point on the shoulder of the unfired std case that headspaces correctly with the Ackley chamber shoulder. The design minimises any risk of case stretch at the base (and possible separation) on firing. That's how Ackley designed them. The more modern versions that have got onto the Ackley bandwagon I cannot comment on.

  @Mathias I have the same problem with my 6.5 Swede Ackley. Although I have dedicated Neck Sizing and Bullet Seating dies for my AI (modified 6.5x55 SM) after about 6 firings and they are getting tight. Unfortunately the FLSing die I have doesn't quite restore them to original. Will do something about the die one day, when I get roundtoit.

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## Pushover

Thanks for the experienced info guys. I think id be happy with 6 to 8 loadings anyway.

Gives some ideas to play with. Apart from the savage I particularly like the numbers on the 6.5 x 55 and 7 x 57

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## grandpamac

> I remember that the 250 AI had a huge increase over the standard round - something like 25% which was the biggest increase Ackley had with any modern rimless case


Greetings Moa Hunter,
The huge increases in velocity were often accompanied by huge increases in pressure. Often the velocities were estimated (guessed) rather than chronographed so the actual results were much less. Huge increases were claimed for the .30-06AI but actual pressure tested loads showed minimal improvement.
Greetings Pushover,
I had a .30-06AI for a while, fire formed cases and just neck sized. Worked fine for my loads and did not get into tight case problems. Had I done so I would have tried firing a light load 35,000CUP or less to see if it produced a easy chambering case as it has done with my .308W.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## small_caliber

> https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...25+Souper.html


Sold a new set of RCBS dies in that chambering a few years ago, the buyer may have built one

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## Spitfire

After 21 pages I guess .25-06 has achieved sufficient interest, and rightly so. I have had three over the years and shot a hatful of deer with them. 

If I was to have another it would be barreled and chambered for the 131 Blackjack bullets with fast enough twist to stabilise them. 

For now I have moved on to .284 Win as an NZ all-rounder.

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## Moa Hunter

> Nah 257AI........ would like to AI my Savage .250 but can't find a reamer anywhere in N.Z.


I remember that the 250 AI had a huge increase over the standard round - something like 25% which was the biggest increase Ackley had with any modern rimless case

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## zimmer

There ya go. Obviously some of the recent "Ackley Improved" are not on the list. Keeping in mind that the recent AIs were obviously never developed by P O Ackley himself. That includes some on the list. 

Ackley Improved Info.pdf

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## Pushover

Interesting numbers. Is it reasonable to just fire std loads to fireform and then neck size only for subsequent loads?

Ie, not using Ackley dies at all

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## Mathias

> Interesting numbers. Is it reasonable to just fire std loads to fireform and then neck size only for subsequent loads?
> 
> Ie, not using Ackley dies at all


Yep, I did that for years with my 257AI. Eventually though I really needed to bump the shoulder on my brass as bolt close was getting tight after about 8-10 firings.

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## zimmer

True Ackley designs have a crossover point on the shoulder of the unfired std case that headspaces correctly with the Ackley chamber shoulder. The design minimises any risk of case stretch at the base (and possible separation) on firing. That's how Ackley designed them. The more modern versions that have got onto the Ackley bandwagon I cannot comment on.

  @Mathias I have the same problem with my 6.5 Swede Ackley. Although I have dedicated Neck Sizing and Bullet Seating dies for my AI (modified 6.5x55 SM) after about 6 firings and they are getting tight. Unfortunately the FLSing die I have doesn't quite restore them to original. Will do something about the die one day, when I get roundtoit.

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## Pushover

Thanks for the experienced info guys. I think id be happy with 6 to 8 loadings anyway.

Gives some ideas to play with. Apart from the savage I particularly like the numbers on the 6.5 x 55 and 7 x 57

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## grandpamac

> I remember that the 250 AI had a huge increase over the standard round - something like 25% which was the biggest increase Ackley had with any modern rimless case


Greetings Moa Hunter,
The huge increases in velocity were often accompanied by huge increases in pressure. Often the velocities were estimated (guessed) rather than chronographed so the actual results were much less. Huge increases were claimed for the .30-06AI but actual pressure tested loads showed minimal improvement.
Greetings Pushover,
I had a .30-06AI for a while, fire formed cases and just neck sized. Worked fine for my loads and did not get into tight case problems. Had I done so I would have tried firing a light load 35,000CUP or less to see if it produced a easy chambering case as it has done with my .308W.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## small_caliber

> https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...25+Souper.html


Sold a new set of RCBS dies in that chambering a few years ago, the buyer may have built one

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