# Hunting > The Magazine >  Stuff that I've learned about deer control

## Flyblown

There has been some discussion on here recently about the huge and damaging deer numbers in the Central North Island, and how recreational hunting isnt having much of a controlling effect. If were honest, I think we know that many occasional hunters prefer to pass up on the easy hind in favour of that dream stag or buck so as to not spook up the area. There was talk about this in relation to the tahr control down south as well, and not shooting nannies. 

This approach is counterproductive in the long run, as in the end the decision on deer numbers is taken out of recreational hunters hands, and before you know it theres nothing left because someone called the choppers and pro-cullers and they shot everything. Those with some grey in their beards will remember what this was like in the 80s.

Righto, so why go down this path Flyblown? 

What follows is just an honest account of what Ive learnt about staying relevant in the minds of my landowners, as a regular recreational hunter on other peoples land. @Phil_H wrote a piece on here recently about making sure you contribute to earn your privileges  a few of us have talked about this subject on this forum. Like how I got in with my main hunting buddies by renovating their cabin and doing the stuff they couldnt (solar, plumbing, generators etc), and then keeping it up to standard no matter how much they abused it! And a whole heap of other stuff. 

But theres something else to discuss, and that is what to do in these parlous times, as we head towards the authorities wanting to tackle red deer over-population. What follows is just a dump of my recent experiences and changes Ive made to ensure that I do the best job I can for those that afford me the privilege of hunting their land, and using their (very comfortable) facilities for free. Its not meant as a boast or an effort to earn cred, more of a suggestion to some of the folk that struggle to find a way to get onto land that is crying out for aggressive ungulate control. First, follow Phils advice and get stuck into the jobs that always need doing. Do that first. Then maybe consider some of the following, this is what works for me but might not work for you!

As some of you know I knock about on farms in a couple of adjacent valleys in the CNI that are absolutely rammed with red deer. It used to be full to bursting with goats too, but theyve been effectively controlled by the likes of me and others, shooting hundreds and hundreds of them from the rougher country where mustering is impossible. Ive got some experience with mustering goats on other properties, and when its done right its very effective. (The problem is you absolutely must have a staunch boundary fence to the bush, and thats simply not an option here. In many rough backcountry paddocks, there is no workable fence, the sheep just dont go in the bush as theres no feed.)

Ive been a ground based participant on a couple of heli-shoots here that didnt exactly succeed, due to the gradients and amount of scrub that makes recovery very hard, and gives the deer plenty of options to go hide. So that leaves only one option. A good all-purpose rifle, staunch boots, quality all weather gear and lots of ammo.

This one property has been through a recent change of ownership and is now being redeveloped into honey and a sheep & beef block. It has been badly let go in recent years; the Google Earth imagery since the late noughties clearly shows how quickly it has deteriorated. So now theres a major scrub cutting operation going on in the lower easier country, which will be returned to pasture, whilst the steeper scrub country out back will see improved access tracks and pads, and left to Mother Nature to continue growing her abundant manuka. Lots of work to do. 

And then theres the deer. Hundreds of them.

When I first started coming here, Id see mobs of 50+ reds cruising around as if they owned the place. They moved between the surrounding properties with impunity, taking refuge in an unbroken chain of DOC owned native bush along the high country watershed. Sometimes, theres more deer in a paddock than sheep and cattle. Thats not good. 

I chipped away at the deer on this particular property for 4 years or so, but then lost privileges for 6 or 7 months last year when the previous owner had a wobbly before he finally decided to sell. Now Im back at the behest of the new owner who is a good mate, along with a number of others like me, all tasked with the simple mandate: shoot the deer. Rather than go into laborious detail of each and every kill on this current trip, which would amount to about 15 hours of reading, Ill comment on some of the things Ive learned instead. 

Firstly, Ill be frank about my long range phase. In 2017 I jumped on board the 6.5 Creedmoor craze and before long I was shooting deer at 500m as if it was shooting cans in the backyard. I have the heavy rifle in a chassis with a big scope, the works, and I learnt a helluva lot and even got pretty good at it. I made some YouTube videos as you do, and became an A-grade Creedmoor tool, going on and on and on on forums like this. Before long it was 600m yearlings, then 700m goats, and I started to find the limits of the cartridge. Time to get excited about a proper long-range rifle! I was looking at the big magnums and analysing this and that, and very nearly bought something to shoot deer at improbable range because I thought I would be shit hot at it!

This, was a problem. 

The productivity of long-range shooting is really crap. In 2018 on this property, there were deer feeding on open clearings everywhere, pretty much all day, and you really didnt have to go far to find them. All you needed was a high vantage point with a good field of view (and no scrub blocking your view). After much palaver and cocking around with range finders and ballistic apps, rear bags, adjustable everything, wind meters and more, one deer (sometimes two) would be shot and the rest of them (lots) would scarper into cover and be gone. There would be a short hobble back to the bike, laden down by all the gear and the 13½lb rifle, and a long mission to where the dead deer was, way the hell over there. On a good day you might get half a dozen between two of you. 

I dont regret it for an instant  I can go shoot like this anytime and know that Ill enjoy it. Theres some properly satisfying memories of excellent long shots with big wind calls. Ive instructed others who would never have thought a 600m goat was an option, and enjoyed their success when theyve flattened it first shot. Setting up the rifles to shoot well enough to do this reliably was very satisfying. But this long-range business was, in hindsight, a complete waste of time for this particular problem, and I could see that if I persisted with it I might not get invited back. These cockies have an eye for what works, and what doesnt...

In between times Id be dicking around with subsonics, head shooting a few deer with my laser beam .223, taking the wife and boys out for a shoot and general activities that amounted to nowhere near enough deer getting shot. So when things settled down post-sale and the new partners had also had their fill of long-range deer shooting (and the Roar rush had been and gone), it was time for me to review of where we were, and what needed to be done. 

The second issue is venison recovery. I know that to many of you, the idea of shooting to waste is borderline criminal. Fair enough, Ive never really been comfortable with it. It got to the point however that if you were going to shoot and recover every deer, youd only be getting one or two a day. Why? Because the gradients, chasms of doom, dangerous unmaintained bike tracks and the sheer number of vertical metres up and down, meant that many recovery missions would be hours long. 

Then there is the issue of carrying out the venison in that kind of country. While we all marvel at the achievements of some of our septuagenarian members, unfortunately this middle-aged body aint gonna hump deer up and down these hills all day. Im already missing various organs, have oesteo-arthiritis (hips), dodgy knees and the only thing stopping my guts from emerging from my beer belly is several sheets of surgical mesh. So fuck that. 

The compromise is taking as many backstraps and rumps as possible, to the point at which my bag (TwinNeedle Mollyme) is full. When that back is so stuffed Im struggling to close it, thats the weight at which I know Im taking too much of a risk. I carry an EPIRB, and I really, really dont want to have to use it, Ive had my fill of injuries and hospitals thank you. 

And what to do with all the meat even if you could get them all out? All of us involved here have more than enough homegrown beef, lamb, pork, poultry and a ton of choice venison and oftentimes, fish too. There simply isnt enough capacity to process more than what we already take. I couldnt give it away last week, I tried three families and all were full to bursting with game meats! I went down to the chiller on the home farm last week and I literally could not fit another beast in there, it was that full of fallow, pigs and mutton. This is a wonderful problem to have really, if you think about it. 

So a gentlemans agreement has been reached, were all on the same page. Take what you can, dont let it hold you up from the business of shooting deer, be safe with what you carry and don't become an accident, and get on with it. 

The third main lesson I have learnt these past few trips, and in particular this time round, is the brilliance of the KISS principle. God knows we hunters can make life complicated for ourselves. Gizmos, fancy bullets that you can no longer find and cost twice the price even if you could, outlandish whizzbang cartridges that are supposedly better but arent really (if you lose a case in the grass its a disaster) and over-complicated and unnecessarily powerful optics. 

I looked long and hard at my rifle collection before I left home. I have more than I need and more than I can take with me. Which one will actually fit this deer problem best? 

I picked up my Tikka .308 and had a think. Ive had a couple of Zeiss scopes on it before, first a duplex reticle Conquest 3-12x50, then a Z800 reticle HD5 3-15x42. Neither reticle gave me what I wanted  hash marks that represent range holds in logical increments. Time is of the essence, and dialing was to be avoided. I knew that if I could dial, I would, and the whole point was cutting the time from spotting the deer to shooting the deer to the minimum. Last Christmas I fitted a Trijicon 2.5-10x56 Accupoint, with a mildot reticle and nice illuminated dot. With a zero of 200m, the dots represent 300m, 400m, 475m and 550m. Perfect. And the way that 56mm objective hoovers up the light is remarkable.

At first I was concerned that 10x power wouldnt be enough. Cobblers! Ive come to realise just how valuable a wide field of view is when shooting 300m+, and I havent missed the 16x, 18x or whatever at all. But even more important was the 2.5x, and just how useful that is when operating in the tight stuff. And lastly, no parallax adjustment? Yep, you bet, and for what I want this setup to do thats spot on. 

And of course, the cartridge. Boring, unsexy, ubiquitous, slow. cheap to run, easy to load for, deadly accurate, hard-hitting .308 Winchester. 
I dont care if I lose brass in the grass. All 308 brass seems to work just fine, its cheap and easy to find.A .30 cal 165gr Speer softpoint costs $45 a box, goes where you tell it to, and knocks over big deer.I can make the Speer go where I want it to with easy to acquire bulk powders and cheap LR primers.I can run a short barrel (18).Another lesson learnt is all about movement. In the past on this property, as mentioned above, there were deer everywhere, all day. Now, you wont find deer grazing nonchalantly in the middle of the day, as the pressure is beginning to tell. So finding a comfy spot and sitting and waiting isnt going to work. What Ive found is its all about miles, get the miles in and the deer will be found. I park the bike in a relatively central location, and then walk. I work out what the wind is doing from gully to gully, walk in low to get around it and in front of it, and then work back into the wind at elevation. Some days it is perfect from the get go  the south easterly is the one to have. But for the most part its north westerly or westerly, and thats in the deers favour. So you have to work out your route, use the spurs, the ridgelines and stay above the deer. In scrub country like this, there are heaps of tiny little clearings dotted around, and often the spurs will be clear. Find an old track, or a good deer track, and sidle into the wind above the main slopes, looking down for the most part. Its amazing how many red deer will be sitting right there  you wont see them for scrub if youre glassing from the other side of the valley. Snap shooting deer offhand from above has been very productive, and often they are only 20-30m away so it is easy to quickly take the backstraps and move on. 

Lastly, we come back to where I started. Shooting hinds only. Ive seen three really impressive red stags this past couple of weeks. It always gets the juices flowing. One Ive seen pretty much every day, I know exactly where he lives. Another Ive seen twice, and I damn nearly had a go at him a few days ago. The final one Ive seen from afar, the kind of stag I would have spent the rest of the trip pursuing if I could. A king amongst stags. 

But thats not what Im here to do. And this is where deer culling is separated from hunting that quality head. If the expectation is youre there to shoot deer, you absolutely must resist the urge to shoot the stag when there are three hinds standing right next to him. Im not going to lie  its bloody hard sometimes. Keep walking up that god awful steep spur to get to the hinds in the next gully, or head into some cover and start stalking into that big head? Bloody hard to resist the urge.

I made a pact with myself  when I got to 30 hinds, Id earned the right to take a stag. It was actually over 40 by the time I found one I could easily get to assuming I dropped him right there. Honouring my agreement with myself felt good, felt satisfying. 

Whats even more satisfying is that despite the fact that I only get to about half the hinds I shoot for control purposes, theres still over 60kg of primo backstrap meat, cleaned, vacuum packed and in the freezer, to be shared amongst us. Feels really good to put that in your mates freezer as a thank you. Plus an unknown quantity of mince  the offcuts and rougher stuff goes into dog mince and the clean rumps are minced for us to mix with beef and make our cook ups of bolognaise meat sauce at home. 

So thats what Ive learnt. My tips for securing productive hunting on deer infested private land, and ensuring you keep getting asked to come back:
A simple rig, easy to feed, nothing fancy optics wise. A large percentage of the shooting is going to be offhand snap shots  its about 50/50 offhand vs prone for me  so a variable scope with a low minimum magnification is essential. My preference  never thought Id say this  is now for fixed parallax. Nothing worse than looking through a scope at a deer standing 20m away when mag is on 16x and parallax is set to infinity. I've shot a few very blurry deer in my time...Have a well-defined operating range and stick to it  mine is 0-400m for the .308 Win  thats proven, well-practiced and doesnt give me any concerns.Travel light and dont take risks when youre oldish, somewhat wobbly with a load on when really tired and prone to breaking down if you overdo it. Dont get greedy, if youre good at it there will be more  much more  tomorrow and the next day.Religiously, dogmatically, shoot females only. Make a point of discussing this with the farmer and then stick to it. Show them you mean business  stop the breeding. At this time of year, youre getting probably 1.75 deer for every deer shot when you include the yearlings. The half dozen mature hinds Ive recently gutted for a look see at the terminal ballistics have all been pregnant.When time is on your side and you're onto a mob, always, always, always shoot the biggest hind with the longest nose first. Every possibility she has two or maybe more daughters with her. Some will run, but others will stay rooted to the spot.Like I say, this is what has worked for me. Ive had to change what I do and drop the fancy stuff, get back to basics. My numbers are through the roof, and I know thats its very much appreciated. The deer will always be here, just harder to find, but thats _real_ hunting. 

As a reward for getting this far, here's some photos of recent deer.

----------


## Woody

Well expressed.

----------


## McNotty

Nice write up! The place we go to doesn’t bother with trying to control numbers with ground hunters anymore. They get the chopper in every year and take out 150 - 200. Make a little bit of cash and job done. Still plenty left for the family and friends to come shoot a feed. 
In saying that, they have a lot of chopper friendly country to do it in.

----------


## Mad_Fisho

Good write up mate! 
I'm a big fan of keeping it simple, but I'm almost always a bush stalker and simple is good!!
I've told myself this year I'm going to shoot more hinds and do my bit for conservation in those areas that have plenty of deer, before it's being done for us... So this was a good read. Cheers!

----------


## Micky Duck

enjoyed that write up very much...thankyou for the honesty and for bothering to help educate the heathen hordes (I INCLUDE MYSELF IN THAT). enjoy your venison and stay safe.

----------


## tiroahunta

I guess its a reality some of these back country properties face. Burgeoning numbers and not allowing access or keeping it for friends/associates, supposed H&S rules, muppets fucking it up....

Ive been working away on the property where I work. Numbers are relatively static as I know I wont get them all. Mainly night shooting with spotlight n some trapping for possums. Next level will be thermal with night vision scope. Thatll be a way off yet.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Pauli

Good read Dave.

----------


## Ben Waimata

Good stuff, this approach is great. As a tree-planting farmer I can attest to the amazing damage even a small number of deer can do. Some people might not like the idea of shooting hinds and leaving a lot of meat but I think it is hugely preferable to 1080 etc. I've often suspected the guys who just take backstraps and back legs are probably getting the best value for effort ratio anyway.

----------


## NewbieZAR

Man i wish there were blocks like these around hamilton, we just cleaned out a block of 350 odd goats, be decent to have a block with deer in those numbers to shoot. 

223 does the business for me.

Changing to a 22 250AI now for this sort of stuff, just point and shoot to 300 or so with the right zero

----------


## chainsaw

Good to see the Trijicon has worked out for you Dave, and getting put to good use. Excellent coverage of a challenging topic.

----------


## 7.62

Great write up flyblown. I hunted a farm last year that was absolutely riddled with fallow. The owner wanted us to shoot does (100% the right thing to do) with a modest amount charged for each animal, and the expectation that all meat be recovered. Ive got no problem with that, but with numbers that high he wouldve been far better off instructing us to shoot every doe possible (at no cost), and we just take the back steaks. Deer numbers that high wouldve been having a very significant material impact on his farming business, and he needed a much more aggressive approach to deal with the problem.

Also interesting to read about your change in philosophy towards hunting strategies and rifle choice. I run a similar rifle (308, 19in barrel, 2-12 scope without parallax) and theres something to be said for the KISS principle. Ive often wondered if I should change to the latest whizz bang high BC 6.5 
whatever, but the reality is that I dont have aspirations of shooting much beyond 400yd so I dont really need the latest in ballistics fuckery

----------


## Russian 22.

How do you even get access to a place like that? only person I know who ever had success door knocking had his 8 y/o old daughter in the back and was allowed to shoot a goat at first.

----------


## Mohawk .308

> How do you even get access to a place like that? only person I know who ever had success door knocking had his 8 y/o old daughter in the back and was allowed to shoot a goat at first.


That’s why these places get over run with deer, limited access. I work with a Maori fella that has access to Maori land on the western side of lake Taupo. It’s a big station with bush at the back of the farm. He’s showed me videos of big mobs 20-30 out in paddocks. Access is very limited to a select few, hence the high numbers.

----------


## MB

> How do you even get access to a place like that? only person I know who ever had success door knocking had his 8 y/o old daughter in the back and was allowed to shoot a goat at first.


My only successful door knocking was with my 6 year old boy in tow. Said I wanted to teach him to hunt (which was true). Get yourself a kid  :Grin:

----------


## Marty Henry

Superbly written piece and something that I feel should be circulated widely within hunting circles. In some situations the selective hunter mindset needs to be forgotton.

----------


## RUMPY

> How do you even get access to a place like that? only person I know who ever had success door knocking had his 8 y/o old daughter in the back and was allowed to shoot a goat at first.


Same with me. About 8 years ago when I first moved to the area I door knocked around the local farms asking for rabbit shooting access and got a no from pretty much all of them. Went back to a farm (first one visited for the day) with my 13 year old son about 18 months ago and asked for a safe spot on private land to teach my boy how to shoot. Old farmer (who is known as a grumpy bugger) jumped in my ute and directed us up the back of his farm and showed an area to sight in rifles and shoot targets. Haven't asked to shoot any animals there again, YET. But I now have his trust that I'm a safe and responsible shooter. Kids are the key to access.

----------


## MB

There is a difference between hunting and "pest" control. For obvious reasons, those lines are blurred in NZ. Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to be a selective deer hunter, but I am a selective goat hunter. I don't want to destroy what precious little hunting I have in my area. Fuck DOC, I don't give them a moment's thought. If they want poison the forests for ideological reasons they are going to do it anyway.

----------


## grandpamac

Greetings Flyblown,
Great article. Thoroughly agree that deer population control must concentrate on the hinds. Hinds are the engine room of the deer population. Less hinds means less fawns. It's that simple. Less stags has little effect on fawn numbers. The stags are merely bit players in population growth.
Also thoroughly agree on keeping rifles and scopes simple. Keep it up.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## hebe

@bigbear this is a good read.

----------


## chainsaw

in cases like this with high deer numbers, plenty of scrub and bush surrounds and the cull of hinds that's needed, do you end up with a pig problem after the cull ?  Imagine even if you taking the edible meat the paunch plus carcass would make good pickins for the local pigs.

----------


## veitnamcam

I have always been a meat hunter so with the exception of the roar I have always shot hinds by preference anyway.
If I shot a stag it was because I hadn't seen any hinds yet.
But then my region is fairly renowned for poor heads.

----------


## Mathias

Well written Flyblown. It takes on hands experience to share that experience....

----------


## csmiffy

Talking to my chopper mate who flies in the north island out of gisborne I think.
Had it happen a few times where the cocky gets him to go in and clean out the deer in the back bush/hill blocks.
Doesnt realise how many are in there until he takes him up for a look. In the hundreds. Farmer is gobsmacked.
Thought it was sika but its fallow.
Suggest most dont realise how bad it gets

----------


## rugerman

Great write up Flyblown, that all sounds pretty logical to me. Of course as us lot know, logic and common sense is increasingly uncommon.

----------


## Flyblown

> in cases like this with high deer numbers, plenty of scrub and bush surrounds and the cull of hinds that's needed, do you end up with a pig problem after the cull ?  Imagine even if you taking the edible meat the paunch plus carcass would make good pickins for the local pigs.


Interesting question. 

My mates are pig hunters of the exceedingly committed kind. It's their life. Not interested at all in deer stalking. Only pigs. 

So the pigs are "managed" and the carcasses are part of that. Sometimes pasture rooting is a problem but they are onto it like a flash. Saturday was a "pig rark up" with the junior dogs being given the task of chasing medium pigs, suckers and sows out of the paddocks into the bush. Part of their training. 

The carcasses are being eaten entirely within 2-3 days. I've just come back from the back block in the lee side of this infernal wind, and all the deer and goat carcasses that were left on clear ground are gone. Just a stain. I shot two young ones this afternoon, they will be gone by Wednesday I expect. 

I know who lives up there. I've seen him, and his cohort, several times. He ran down a fenceline no more than 40m from me last week and I got a real good look at him. A proper pig that in due course will be going to war with his canine enemies.

----------


## deer243

Yes, well written, good points when hunting such places and animal control is number one.
I dont have that problem, dont hunt private land, hunt DOC blocks that all have the green rain and a fair share of hunters. I wouldnt say the numbers are out of control, quite the opposite.

Still, i meat hunt and shoot what i come across, hinds, stags, yearlings, doesnt matter but only generally just one as its all im going to carry out and the others are there for next time,
either for me or someone else.
Pig hunters that get access to private blocks where the cocky want the pigs gone are prime example around here that dont follow Flyblown advice.
I know a few that have lost access because they release the sows or only get one pig and are happy and thats the hunt.

They trying to protect the block so theres plenty of pigs to catch and good boars avaiable for pig hunting comps.
Of cause they missed the point as the cocky wants them gone and stop the damage they cause hence they get the finger.

Years ago when i was pig hunting with mates we had a farm that whenever the pigs made a mess the farmer would ring and tell us to sort the problem.
One day we got 9 pigs with the dogs, couple of good ones and the cocky was that happy we were always welcomed back.

We all want areas where theres animal to shoot, but at the same time even in Doc animal control got to be number one when numbers are getting out of control.

----------


## Micky Duck

yip we were the same on home farm with pigs....with low numbers,sows got let go where we could,much easier once the big holder teams werent welcome,but if pigs hit the good pasture/crop paddocks,they all got hit and came home for dinner.
listening to landowner wishes is always good policy.

----------


## trooper90

A well written article very interesting Flyblown

----------


## Russian 22.

> My only successful door knocking was with my 6 year old boy in tow. Said I wanted to teach him to hunt (which was true). Get yourself a kid


I'm a tell you once. Bugger off! Already have the middy talking all excited and sad about the first baby and then a second!

----------


## MB

> I'm a tell you once. Bugger off! Already have the middy talking all excited and sad about the first baby and then a second!


Don't say I didn't warn you!

----------


## Husky1600

Excellent read Flyblown, well said. I too like the simple approach and prefer to hunt with my rather old 7x57 and 4X scope, animals just seem to fall over when I squeeze the trigger. I dont shoot many animals nowadays, prefer to see them rather than shoot them. But when I need meat for the freezer I just shoot 'em as I see 'em - hind, fawn, rumpty old stag. I do however leave any decent stags for the guys that like to hunt for antler, only shoot the ones missing their beys, or narrow spread etc. Thank you for the honesty, we all need to take heed for the sake of our hunting.

----------


## stagstalker

Good write up, agree for sure. Plenty of people could do with reading this

----------


## Yesmate

yea good points but the reality is virtually no farmer is going to let a random onto their property to hunt these days there are to many horror stories and the trust in a hand shake agreement these days is not what it was even 10 years ago.access might  only be gained through family or being known to the farmer for years.i like going for hunts with randoms but I'm nervy about letting them loose by themselves.

----------


## Russian 22.

> yea good points but the reality is virtually no farmer is going to let a random onto their property to hunt these days there are to many horror stories and the trust in a hand shake agreement these days is not what it was even 10 years ago.access might  only be gained through family or being known to the farmer for years.i like going for hunts with randoms but I'm nervy about letting them loose by themselves.


Well then they can't complain about deer numbers then if they're not letting people shoot them.

----------


## Tuidog

> Well then they can't complain about deer numbers then if they're not letting people shoot them.


We have that issue here in South Australia.  A group of farmers who are upset about high numbers of deer and blame their neighbours, they'll utilise the federally funded helicopter culling 2x a year but offer to help them with controlling numbers and you get a no, continual pressure is required if numbers are to be brought down.

----------


## Flyblown

> yea good points but the reality is virtually no farmer is going to let a random onto their property to hunt these days there are to many horror stories and the trust in a hand shake agreement these days is not what it was even 10 years ago.access might  only be gained through family or being known to the farmer for years.i like going for hunts with randoms but I'm nervy about letting them loose by themselves.


Yeah nah. Mate, I see your point, but my experience suggests otherwise. There’s plenty of guys like me with long-term permissions that they built up over time. I really don’t agree with the statement “virtually no farmer...”, the last three valleys I visited in southern and northern Taranaki all yielded new permissions, in the last two years. 

This is about how guys that might get viewed as a random can change their approach and give the cynical farmer reason to think twice. Some cockies do themselves few favours, in a constant state of war with everyone and taking an unnecessarily negative view of the common lesser spotted GC.

I’m not saying it’s easy, but its certainly not impossible.

----------


## Sarvo

Tiniroto - Gisborne 
1500 taken apparently

----------


## Friwi

Over what period ? A weekend? On many properties?

----------


## Sarvo

Great read @Flyblow
Posted above picture before  fully reading your article 
I think it fits with the message - although its all Stags in above photo I think and it was part of a big mop up on a pre-plant Forestry project (from what info I have which may be need tweaking)

Can you imagine in another 5 years in a lot of regions without your approach (and farmers plans to match) 

I am glad to also read today - I am not the only one to shy away from dials and knobs as to me its just an unnecessary add-on in the "Hunting" category

----------


## Trout

Go the 308. :Wink:

----------


## Micky Duck

that looks more like a compitition line up?????

----------


## veitnamcam

I wish I was in this position really.
I used to shoot a property I would see 30 plus deer a night (phenomenonal numbers of deer for the region) while shooting rabbits.
Owner was protective of the deer as he had had his fence cut years ago letting some into doc mismanaged land.
He was always hopefull he would get some back into the deer trap near the boundary.
The deer trap used to work when it was freshly developed land with new grass 25-30 years ago.....they had no reason to go there now with freshly developed grass and crops over the property.
For a start it was yea you can shoot a deer but only a stag.
Crops started getting punished....ok you can shoot a hind but if you get a few I would like some sausages.....like no problems at all how many can you handle.
Numbers dropped rapidly.
Dependant on the terrain and bush and thesize of
the property I still believe letting rec hunters on property to hunt is the most economical and most ethical solution.

No disrespect to the opening post at all, when numbers are up as much as yours the jobs got to be done.....it just should never get to that point.

But the "job" wouldn't be a "job" and wouldn't have to be done if Access was allowed its that simple.

Sorting the hunters and or pest controlers from the fuckwits with a rifle and or lamp/thermal who can both hunt safely and follow instructions to to "shoot everything" " only shoot stags" "only shoot hinds" 
Is the hard bit for the land owner/manager
weather you personally think their goal is off target or not is irrelevant if you have access follow the rules.

----------


## Yesmate

> Yeah nah. Mate, I see your point, but my experience suggests otherwise. Theres plenty of guys like me with long-term permissions that they built up over time. I really dont agree with the statement virtually no farmer..., the last three valleys I visited in southern and northern Taranaki all yielded new permissions, in the last two years. 
> 
> This is about how guys that might get viewed as a random can change their approach and give the cynical farmer reason to think twice. Some cockies do themselves few favours, in a constant state of war with everyone and taking an unnecessarily negative view of the common lesser spotted GC.
> 
> Im not saying its easy, but its certainly not impossible.


Ill stand by the comment that virtually no farmer will let a random on but agree its def not impossible,the trust needs to be built over a decent time though with like you say something in it for the land owner.Im in the trade and I have several farmer clients that I can hunt on their places, it came about by me suggesting a few little jobs could be done for hunting access,that instantly sealed the deal but id known/delt the farmer for years before bringing it up.I know 100% if I had of asked straight away it would have been a No by what they had told me re the hunting on their place.The best tac for anyone wanting to gain access is to offer something/their time(would you like those thousand thistles grubbed next weekend?)to the owner that is valuable to them(don't offer venison sausages, generally farmers freezers are full of home kill)but I still believe you need to know the guy for a few years for it to happen.Randoms to farmers=No.

----------


## Russian 22.

> We have that issue here in South Australia.  A group of farmers who are upset about high numbers of deer and blame their neighbours, they'll utilise the federally funded helicopter culling 2x a year but offer to help them with controlling numbers and you get a no, continual pressure is required if numbers are to be brought down.


I certainly struggle to have much sympathy.

----------


## Norway

I'm not sure if you're making actual sense or if Google trapped me in one of those echo chambers I've read about... 😅

I'm very much into LR shooting, but as you put it, "productivity of LR is really crap" was also why I never really culled deer like that. My shooting has also been driven by a sense of economy, and for the same reasons as you I went full circle and settled on a 6.5x55. 

Very good writeup, made my day! 😎

----------


## Marty Henry

In line with flyblowns original post, the result of a mornings shoot on a wanganui farm, by the end of the weekend we had recovered 13 of 22 deer shot, also 3 pigs( recovered) and 4 goats plus a few possums( left).
Yes the deer are small, a mix of yearlings and fawns, 50/50 male and female but they need to go as the trees planted last year have been taking a thrashing.
The place has regularly been shot by others but there are still significant numbers around that need reducing.
The mindset needed to shoot the "young unns" certainly is different.

----------


## veitnamcam

> In line with flyblowns original post, the result of a mornings shoot on a wanganui farm, by the end of the weekend we had recovered 13 of 22 deer shot, also 3 pigs( recovered) and 4 goats plus a few possums( left).
> Yes the deer are small, a mix of yearlings and fawns, 50/50 male and female but they need to go as the trees planted last year have been taking a thrashing.
> The place has regularly been shot by others but there are still significant numbers around that need reducing.
> The mindset needed to shoot the "young unns" certainly is different.


The young unns are the tender tasty ones.

----------


## Sh00ter

> The young unns are the tender tasty ones.


And easier to carry out  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Micky Duck

handbag deer LOL

----------


## kūpapa tia

Good read mate.

----------


## Micky Duck

@Rees

----------


## Trout

Good for the farmer and yr freezers,makes sence.

----------


## XR500

Good on ya! 
At least its possible to shoot browsing animals that threaten your new forest. We have had a bunch of hares getting stuck into some recent plantings. Trying to tart up a Pine bush edge with some Eucs and Blackwoods. The hares took offence and nipped them all off. 
Have now piled most of them up, but there's still the odd sneaky one about doing the deed, so spotlight it will have to be.

Last week's hurricane force winds have decimated our newly planted trees. About 10% of 15 thousand trees have a 30degree lean on now :Wtfsmilie: 
I have tried shooting at the wind...but it just laughed at me and blew harder :Sad:

----------


## Ben Waimata

> Good on ya! 
> At least its possible to shoot browsing animals that threaten your new forest. We have had a bunch of hares getting stuck into some recent plantings. Trying to tart up a Pine bush edge with some Eucs and Blackwoods. The hares took offence and nipped them all off. 
> Have now piled most of them up, but there's still the odd sneaky one about doing the deed, so spotlight it will have to be.
> 
> Last week's hurricane force winds have decimated our newly planted trees. About 10% of 15 thousand trees have a 30degree lean on now
> I have tried shooting at the wind...but it just laughed at me and blew harder


No worries mate, only 1500 trees to ram up straight! Shouldn't take more than week or two... actually it will not take long, I've done my fair share of tree straightening in my time. Sounds to me like you need a P endorsement for those hares.

----------


## XR500

Well! Just been out filling trenches by hand and had a Kaka fly over me! And go straight into our Gum block. Nasty introduced tree species! Ha!!
They seem to come here mid Winter when the Pureoras has run out of native tucker.

And if you want to see the benefits of planting introduced species to foster native species, I'll go and take a pic of our Larch block. The natives were completely chewed out by a past grazier prior to us moving on 16 years ago. Natives are now 30 foot tall and blossoming :Thumbsup:

----------


## Marty Henry

In line with flyblowns original post, the result of a mornings shoot on a wanganui farm, by the end of the weekend we had recovered 13 of 22 deer shot, also 3 pigs( recovered) and 4 goats plus a few possums( left).
Yes the deer are small, a mix of yearlings and fawns, 50/50 male and female but they need to go as the trees planted last year have been taking a thrashing.
The place has regularly been shot by others but there are still significant numbers around that need reducing.
The mindset needed to shoot the "young unns" certainly is different.

----------


## veitnamcam

> In line with flyblowns original post, the result of a mornings shoot on a wanganui farm, by the end of the weekend we had recovered 13 of 22 deer shot, also 3 pigs( recovered) and 4 goats plus a few possums( left).
> Yes the deer are small, a mix of yearlings and fawns, 50/50 male and female but they need to go as the trees planted last year have been taking a thrashing.
> The place has regularly been shot by others but there are still significant numbers around that need reducing.
> The mindset needed to shoot the "young unns" certainly is different.


The young unns are the tender tasty ones.

----------


## Sh00ter

> The young unns are the tender tasty ones.


And easier to carry out  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Micky Duck

handbag deer LOL

----------


## kūpapa tia

Good read mate.

----------


## Micky Duck

@Rees

----------


## Trout

Good for the farmer and yr freezers,makes sence.

----------


## XR500

Good on ya! 
At least its possible to shoot browsing animals that threaten your new forest. We have had a bunch of hares getting stuck into some recent plantings. Trying to tart up a Pine bush edge with some Eucs and Blackwoods. The hares took offence and nipped them all off. 
Have now piled most of them up, but there's still the odd sneaky one about doing the deed, so spotlight it will have to be.

Last week's hurricane force winds have decimated our newly planted trees. About 10% of 15 thousand trees have a 30degree lean on now :Wtfsmilie: 
I have tried shooting at the wind...but it just laughed at me and blew harder :Sad:

----------


## Ben Waimata

> Good on ya! 
> At least its possible to shoot browsing animals that threaten your new forest. We have had a bunch of hares getting stuck into some recent plantings. Trying to tart up a Pine bush edge with some Eucs and Blackwoods. The hares took offence and nipped them all off. 
> Have now piled most of them up, but there's still the odd sneaky one about doing the deed, so spotlight it will have to be.
> 
> Last week's hurricane force winds have decimated our newly planted trees. About 10% of 15 thousand trees have a 30degree lean on now
> I have tried shooting at the wind...but it just laughed at me and blew harder


No worries mate, only 1500 trees to ram up straight! Shouldn't take more than week or two... actually it will not take long, I've done my fair share of tree straightening in my time. Sounds to me like you need a P endorsement for those hares.

----------


## XR500

Well! Just been out filling trenches by hand and had a Kaka fly over me! And go straight into our Gum block. Nasty introduced tree species! Ha!!
They seem to come here mid Winter when the Pureoras has run out of native tucker.

And if you want to see the benefits of planting introduced species to foster native species, I'll go and take a pic of our Larch block. The natives were completely chewed out by a past grazier prior to us moving on 16 years ago. Natives are now 30 foot tall and blossoming :Thumbsup:

----------

