# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Aftermarket R93 and R8 Barrels  Major Safety Concerns

## Stager Sport

Stager Sport Press Release  4th November 2013

*Aftermarket R93 and R8 Barrels  Major Safety Concerns*

We have recently inspected an aftermarket barrel that has been made here in New Zealand that showed massive chamber expansion after just one shot had been fired. The experienced purchaser immediately realised the potential dangers that may have occurred if he continued shooting.

Stager Sport is concerned about the danger aftermarket Blaser R93 and R8 barrels may present to shooters and would like to inform the public of the processes that Blaser complete to insure their products are safe for use.

The critical bolt lock up in most bolt action rifles is in the action; this means the strength of the gun to withstand the pressures generated by the cartridge is in the action.

Most European manufactured bolt action rifles are sent for Independent Government Proof Testing to insure that the actions are safe to withstand the enormous pressures that are generated when a gun is fired.

A barrel is normally screwed into the action and it is quite normal for aftermarket barrels to be fitted into this type of action as the strength of critical lock up is in the action, and not in the barrel.

However with Blaser R93 and R8 Rifles the critical bolt lock up is not in the action, it is in the barrel and because of this it is the barrel that has to be dimension and proof tested by an Independent Government Proof Testing agency to insure safety.

Blaser barrels are manufactured from special steel that is supplied only to Blaser; this steel goes through constant laboratory testing to insure its consistent quality. 

The barrel and chamber tolerances are then machined extremely precisely to insure uniformity for modular compatibility. The critical lock up region of the barrel is then heat treated to achieve a hardness level that offers the exact requirements for both strength and resilience. The barrels are then Plasma nitrided to offer a high surface hardness to stop imprinting/wear. The barrels are then laboratory tested and measured again before going to DEVA the German Proof testing authority for chamber dimension, breach lock up and overload testing. 

The specific quality of steel used in Blaser barrels is not available in New Zealand, the independent proof testing of the barrels is not available in New Zealand and it is these things that ensure the product complies with international safety standards. Therefore any NZ made product cannot meet the International Safety Standards.

How an aftermarket barrel made for a R93 or R8 may perform from a safety perspective is a complete gamble.


Stager Sport NZ Ltd

Sole Authorised Importers and Distributors of Blaser and Mauser

Stager Sport  | 03 448 8844 | info@stagersport.co.nz

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## R93

Factory Barrel sales must be down. :Grin:  
Seriously, how does a chamber massively expand without failure from the weaker moving parts?

A barrel threaded to the existing, treated, receiver/knox should be no weaker than any other barrel receiver assembly.

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## Ground Control

> Attachment 16070 Factory Barrel sales must be down. 
> Seriously, how does a chamber massively expand without failure from the weaker moving parts?
> 
> A barrel threaded to the existing, treated, receiver/knox should be no weaker than any other barrel receiver assembly.


It's good to see your back , haven't seen you around for awhile .

Stager Sport .
While I've got you on the line , I'd just like to ask if you have a American Skeet Stock for a F3 Blaser .
I'm on the hunt for one , I don't care what grade or condition of timber , anything would be considered as long as its uncut and not an adjustable comb .


Ken

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## L.R

Hi Stager.  What cal was the barrel and what were the signs of the barrel expansion on the case?  
Also what was the load and projectile fired in it?

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## Stager Sport

> Attachment 16070 Factory Barrel sales must be down. 
> Seriously, how does a chamber massively expand without failure from the weaker moving parts?
> 
> A barrel threaded to the existing, treated, receiver/knox should be no weaker than any other barrel receiver assembly.



Question 1:

Seriously, how does a chamber massively expand without failure from the weaker moving parts?
  When the breech block is locked in place there should be no moving parts. 

The barrel Stager inspected was stainless as was the bolt lock up parallel extension which was not factory Blaser. 

The person who had made this complete unit had produced a separate 95mm parallel lock up and then threaded it and then screwed the barrel into it.

The stainless steel locking extension he manufactured was made of a material far to soft for the task of withstanding the pressures that are developed in the chamber.

The fact that the lock up extension and barrel was threaded may also have played a part, if this threading had excessive tolerance the chamber sidewalls being relatively slim would be very much inclined to expand into the excess threading tolerance.


If a genuine Blaser barrel lock up extension is used then, other than correct headspace and ensuring the bolt lock up is complete there should be no problem.

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## Stager Sport

> It's good to see your back , haven't seen you around for awhile .
> 
> Stager Sport .
> While I've got you on the line , I'd just like to ask if you have a American Skeet Stock for a F3 Blaser .
> I'm on the hunt for one , I don't care what grade or condition of timber , anything would be considered as long as its uncut and not an adjustable comb .
> 
> 
> Ken


Hi Ken,
Our information is that the US Super Skeet gun uses the standard Super Sport adjustable Stock configuration. If you want a non adjustable we may be able to obtain one of the old model Monte Carlo format stocks that are without an adjustable cheekpiece.
If you can e-mail an idea of stock dimensions we may have something here in store suitable.

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## R93

Thanks for the reply. The original post makes more sense to me now, cheers. :Thumbsup:

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## Stager Sport

> Hi Stager.  What cal was the barrel and what were the signs of the barrel expansion on the case?  
> Also what was the load and projectile fired in it?


I was informed by the purchaser of the barrel who is well known in firearms and reloading circles that it had been chambered to a wildcat version of the 300 Blaser Magnum by necking it down to 7mm.
The chamber expansion was so great that the owner showed this by inserting a cartridge into the chamber backwards for three quarters of its length.

The barrel will be sent to DEVA the German Proof House for examination and a full report on it will be available in due course.

Only the owner can answer the question of loads and projectiles.

Stager Sport/Blaser's  concern is that other examples may be out in the shooting fraternity and the potential for incidents like this need to be eliminated before accidents and injury occur.

We request that anyone who has safety concerns about aftermarket Blaser barrels contact Stager Sport on info@stagersport.co.nz

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## kiwijames

> If a genuine Blaser barrel lock up extension is used then, other than correct headspace and ensuring the bolt lock up is complete there should be no problem.


 How do I buy one? I assume this is the section with the two studs and scope attachment points?

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## L.R

Before posting public safety concerns about a competitors product don't you think you should have some more information? 

The first thing I would like to know is what was the load fired in it?  
How many rounds has it fired and were all the cases in the same state. 

Obviously it is a wild cat so there will be no factory load data for it so how do you know it was not massively over loaded?  I could achieve the same expansion with a factory blaser barrel if I loaded it hot enough. 

Next thing is what makes you think using a Blaser barrel lock up section would be any safer?  You still have exactly the same problem of the thin chamber walls and expansion into the threads. 
Do you know what material the after market barrel lock up is? Do you know it's tensile strength and hardness?  I do and I also know what a factory Blaser barrel is to.

Just a few things to think about. It seems like you are assuming a lot of things at this stage.

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## Tahr

Oh well, its achieved one thing. I have never known Stager Sport to respond to a question so fast. If at all.  :Thumbsup: 

If its a genuine safety issue, then its legit and awareness should be raised. I wonder why though Stager haven't raised the same concern over at the other pub?

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## scoped

who made the barrel and or fitting work?

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## PerazziSC3

Just saw the same message on Facebook.... hopefully no one is jumping the gun so to speak,  with this very public announcement

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## R93

> Lets not answer that. Based on L.Rs response is should be possible to guess.


+1 There are plenty of questions that need to be asked. It is imo however, a good saftey plug for Blaser, in a way. 
If a chamber can expand that much on a single firing, yet the primary locking of the action remains intact. Impressive. :Wtfsmilie: 

I also think it is really poor form displayed by the owner of said barrel, to run somewhere else for answers before giving the fabricator of the barrel a chance to fault find and remedy. I would be highly pissed if I was the fabricator assuming he has not been given the chance.

Headspace is critical and has to be absolutely perfect for these actions to remain safe and function correctly. More so than a sloppy standard action :Grin:  
You will reach your max load well before you would in a standard camming action. So in order to have a functioning rifle you can *never* use overloaded ammo. 
Primary extraction cannot be achieved unless it is well within safe limits. You normally have to increase barrel length if you chase the speed others get from the same cal in a standard action.

I would be putting the load used at the top of the fault list in this instance. If that is deemed to be safe......then look at the metals, tolerances and fabrication process.

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## Spanners

> +1 There are plenty of questions that need to be asked...
> 
> I would be putting the load used at the top of the fault list in this instance. If that is deemed to be safe......then look at the metals, tolerances and fabrication process.


End of the day, a wildcat load has no specs...
Metal, tolerance and fabrication process has no controls over either, and thus the issue we have in NZ with every backyarder thinking they are a gunsmith and no accountability and in most accounts no metallurgy  experience and basic/limited machine skills and tools. 
Primary extraction as a quote is understood by very few, and it seems that many also struggle with the basics of headspace

Who's barrel is it, who made the action and what's being done about it??

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## R93

Spanners, What do you mean a wildcat cal has no specs? Blaser make 7mm and 300 blaser magnums.  
You are in or about to be in the process of manufacturing projectiles for public sale are you not? A mistake in that process can result in a very similar outcome no? What *formal* training outside of your back yard have you had and what do you have in place to cover a possible fuck up?

Every major firearms manufacturer has had shit go wrong. This is imo no different. If the fabricator has been given a chance to remedy his work and has not, then fine, name and shame. Until then it was imo, a bullshit stunt wrapped in a safety message.

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## R93

> Primary extraction as a quote is understood by very few, and it seems that many also struggle with the basics of headspace


 Basics of gunsmithing I would have thought. Or was I wrong to mention them because no one knows what they mean?

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## Spanners

> Spanners, What do you mean a wildcat cal has no specs? Blaser make 7mm and 300 blaser magnums.  
> You are in or about to be in the process of manufactuering projectiles for public sale are you not? A mistake in that process can result in a very similar outcome no? What *formal* training outside of your back yard have you had and what do you have in place to cover a possible fuck up?
> 
> Every major firearms manufactuer has had shit go wrong. This is imo no different. If the fabricator has been given a chance to remedy his work and has not, then fine, name and shame. Until then it was imo, a bullshit stunt wrapped in a safety message.


I'm reading from my ph and may have missed something but says 300 mag necked to 7mm wildcat?

Yes proj mfg
More so assembly possibly , using the same tooling, machines, processes and components that have been in the industry for 50? Yrs and used by all the big name manufacturers. 
The reason I have to wait 2 yrs for gear is because Berger and likes get priority. 
It's near on impossible  to get something soft out of a swage die the wrong size, the laws of physics dictate that. 
And the result would be far from the same... If you want to try putting .308 through a .243 hole then that's your deal, but if you can provide a scenario in which what I am doing could be equated to the topic at hand then I'm all ears. 

It's not about a major firearms mfg having a hiccup , it sounds by what's being discussed, someone coping a major mfgs design with no idea of what's actually in the design, proof testing or otherwise and a safety issue from what's being described. 
I know know who's gun or whatever is the deal but end of the day we have the rifles agent/rep here telling is there is an issue. 
Are you saying there isn't one and its all lies, because if you're not im not sure what's going on...

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## Spanners

> Basics of gunsmithing I would have thought. Or was I wrong to mention them because no one knows what they mean?


Yes the basics  and as I said, many don't actually 'get it'

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## R93

No I am not saying it is not an issue. I just want to know the cause before pointing any fingers. You have made your mind up it seems, so I will leave you to it.

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## Spanners

> No I am not saying it is not an issue. I just want to know the cause before pointing any fingers. You have made your mind up it seems, so I will leave you to it.


No fingers pointed other than the original post here
2 sides to every story, and 1 side laid out in black and white and the other nothing more than hearsay and perhaps some that know more than they are letting on

Tahrs post is  about spot on really

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## R93

Whatever. You wouldnt have an alternate agenda would you? 
I do not know anymore than what has been written on here either. If it is an overload, it makes the original post almost, defamatory. Running to the agent, in my minds stinks and is suspicious.

All I am saying is an actual cause had to be found before going public, not speculation.  IMHO I am inclined to think it is of no fault of the fabricator knowing what I know of the cal and rifle design.

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## veitnamcam

> Sucks for PR,.


Not if your not named.

Don't see how it is defamatory R93?

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## R93

> Ask Fonterra about that one. You go public, then you figure out the issue. Sucks for PR, but not as bad as a dead customer.


Totally agree Tim. But is this not different in the fact you can overload any make of firearm and end up with the same result? The aftermarket barrel is being blamed here. The damage has been done now anyway.

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## R93

> Not if your not named.
> 
> Don't see how it is defamatory R93?


When it comes out in the wash Cam................It will be either defamatory or accurate.
As I said, the damage either way, has been done now.

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## L.R

Yes but this is like if it were Nestle breaking the news about Fonterra possibly having botulism in their product. 

I have know idea who owns the barrel in question Tussock and I also am only assuming who built it so I have no association with that barrel what so ever. 
I have had a bit to do with making aftermarket Blaser barrels, and I do know a thing or two about the issues that can arise with them, however I feel that in this case the problem could easily be caused by a simple overloaded round and Stager sports has no idea what the load fired even was.  In my mind it seems a little premature to issue a safety warning about a competitors product without knowing even the basic facts.

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## gimp

Having Blasers blowing up all around the place with aftermarket barrels certainly would affect the brand image and as Stager is the agent,

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## kiwijames

Blasers blow up,all the time regardless. I don't see what the issue is really. :Sad:

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## Tahr

Or course there are always 2 sides to everything. The price of Blasers is overloaded and dangerous to the wallet. Stager need to take some responsibility for this.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## BRADS

> Or course there are always 2 sides to everything. The price of Blasers is overloaded and dangerous to the wallet. Stager need to take some responsibility for this.


 Yes there are always two sides to every story.
I feel sorry for the forum member who brought the gun and almost had a woopsy.
Surely we should all be thankful that it went to someone very experienced in the industry who new something was wrong,
If it was built/sold to joe blogs we may be all giving condolences in this thread.
And a fatality is the last thing the builder, user and any of us want two happen.

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## L.R

Couldn't agree more brads. It's serious shit. It would be nice to establish a bit more info about what's happened first tho.

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## Spanners

> Whatever. You wouldnt have an alternate agenda would you? 
> I do not know anymore than what has been written on here either. If it is an overload, it makes the original post almost, defamatory. Running to the agent, in my minds stinks and is suspicious.
> 
> All I am saying is an actual cause had to be found before going public, not speculation.  IMHO I am inclined to think it is of no fault of the fabricator knowing what I know of the cal and rifle design.


Agenda? I've only put 2 and 2 together right now. It's how do you say..clearer on a laptop.
I would go as far as to say pot/kettle....

Hasn't it been stated already 'material too soft'??

Is this a off the shelf cartridge or a wildcat?

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## L.R

Spanners if the material used is what I think it was it is not to soft it is exactly the same hardness as a r8 Blaser barrel. I think someone has seen the colour of the meterial and just assumed it 416 or 304.

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## Spanners

The materials properties such as tensile and yield strengths etc are far more important than hardness

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## Ground Control

> Yes there are always two sides to every story.
> I feel sorry for the forum member who brought the gun and almost had a woopsy.
> Surely we should all be thankful that it went to someone very experienced in the industry who new something was wrong,
> If it was built/sold to joe blogs we may be all giving condolences in this thread.
> And a fatality is the last thing the builder, user and any of us want two happen.


If it is a forum member that owns the rifle in question , maybe they could make a well thought out and considered statement , listing some of the facts and not just suspicions and guess work .
I have no dog in this fight other than that I own a Blaser R93 . Stager has done the right thing by alerting Blaser owners to a potential problem  with an aftermarket alteration , but that is where their involvement should end in the matter .

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## L.R

You just said in your post above that hardness was the problem. The material used has a very high tensile strength to it was chosen after an analysis of a R8 barrel.

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## BRADS

> If it is a forum member that owns the rifle in question , maybe they could make a well thought out and considered statement , listing some of the facts and not just suspicions and guess work .
> I have no dog in this fight other than that I own a Blaser R93 . Stager has done the right thing by alerting Blaser owners to a potential problem  with an aftermarket alteration , but that is where their involvement should end in the matter .


Yes bang on, the owner of said rifle and the rifle builder have both been conspicuous in there absence......
Would be good two get the thoughts from both before everyone cleans and drys.

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## Stager Sport

The problem with the trend to create large capacity, high intensity wildcat cartridges that create chamber pressures that are close or even over the maximum that ammunition manufacturers have set as their standard maximum. It is for this very reason that Stager Sport/Blaser are seriously concerned that any aftermarket barrels that are produced where the critical bolt lock up is made from a steel that is not at all suitable to withstand the pressures and bolt forces generated.

Blaser barrels are produced to withstand a chamber pressure of well in excess of the pressures achieved with normal factory loaded ammunition. To insure the barrels that they manufacture are safe Blaser have them Independently Tested by the German Proof House, it is this Independent Testing that insures the public are purchasing a product that functions safely within the tolerances set by the ammunition manufacturers.

Members of this forum will no doubt recall the problems that another major European manufacturer had a few years ago with a batch of steel that was used to produce their quality rifles that had serious failures causing multiple injuries to shooters both in NZ and overseas where their firearms self destructed using factory ammunition.

This steel related problem happened to a major manufacturer of firearms who has an extensive in-house testing laboratory, how can a local manufactured component be satisfactorily tested to insure safety?

*We have stated the major safety concerns of ourselves/Blaser on this issue and if you have any further questions contact Stager Sport.*

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## gimp

Presumably it wasn't a "hot" load outsides of whatever guidelines are given for loading this wildcat since it was the first round fired through the rifle. Like, that'd be pretty silly

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## R93

Stager, you stated in the original post/notice that the chamber expanded? In this instance the bolt lock, as you call it, did not fail at all, correct? If it did, the user would possibly be wearing the carrier assembly as a face ornament or worse.
Which is it?

This whole thing stinks and to me at the moment, actually sounds like a setup, which I think you lot at stager have unfortunately, only seen the end result.

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## Spanners

> You just said in your post above that hardness was the problem. The material used has a very high tensile strength to it was chosen after an analysis of a R8 barrel.


It was stated prior it was too soft and you said it was the same...??
Hardness, tensile and yield as materials basic properties are not linear or uniform across different materials ie increase one and rest go up too at the same proportion.

You obviously know a lot more about it all... How was the receiver tested.... Chopped up and sent away to a lab for core analysis or?? I can't see how you could possibly find the info required to make a material decision using non destructive testing methods, and I'm not aware of anywhere in NZ or Oz that can do a full analysis, we've always has to use Singapore or Norway
With that info available it can be pretty easy to put to bed assumptions on materials etc

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## Looseunit

> *The chamber expansion was so great that the owner showed this by inserting a cartridge into the chamber backwards for three quarters of its length.*


Given that the material is of the 'same strength' and a cartridge goes in backwards does this not point to a chambering problem? Dont know , havent had anything to do with the caliber and not sure of the cartridge dimensions . but its something i would be looking at

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## L.R

No. It is possible to stretch the chamber as it is only built from 416 ss barrel steel.  What I have learnt from playing with aftermarket receivers is that .308 boltface cartrages seem to be about the max diameter you can get away with without extraction problems. 
Stager is correct in saying that you cannot transfer the chamber wall forces through the barrel threads and into the receiver, it dosent matter how tight the threads are, I have even had some ground to super tight tolerances. 

Sometimes you may get away with going to a mag case if everything works in your favour, like hard brass and using a 4140 barrel not stainless.  You have to remember that there is only about 2.5-3mm of chamber wall thickness to the root of the thread.  What this means is that you can strech the chamber if you put to much pressure in it.  I don't believe this causes a risk of the bolt lock coming undone all it does is make extraction almost impossible. 

The same thing happens all the time on conventional bolt actions when you try to use a large diameter case in a action with a marginal Tennon size.  All that happens is hard or impossible extraction it doesn't pose a risk of shearing off the bolt lugs. 

Yes it is true that these Blaser aftermarket barrels with mag chamberings will be closer to the limit than a standard blaser barrel, however if the person who owns it is sensible like any reloader needs to be, then I don't believe they are dangerous.

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## L.R

Tussock I don't think anybody is saying that what Stager is saying happened didn't. It's just a matter of what caused it.  I think that's what people are asking for, more information. 

As we know there are all sorts of commercial wars going on, and we just want evidence that this is not another one.

Also I'd like to point out for a second time that I have nothing to do with this aftermarket barrel and I am only guessing who the two parties involved are.

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## kiwijames

This is a shit thread. It will only become worse and end up with someone getting sin binned or worse. 
I suggest it is locked and only opened again once there is some tangible evidence. Until then, the OP is probably left as it stands, a warning, not an open discussion as to which quorum has the high ground.

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## kokako

Maybe New Zealand should introduce proofing for any firearm re barrel. A qualification for gun smiths might be a good idea as well, with a practical and theory registration exam.

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## Sidney

Maybe we should register boats, licence boat drivers, introduce noise pollution levels, ban lead from hunting projectiles, ban lead for shotguns, pay girls to get pregnant, give compensation to criminals hurt during their occupational activities, pay for drunken yobs misadventures when the injure themselves, reduce the speed limit to 10mph....

anybody else want a turn?

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## Spanners

We've done most of those already...

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## Sidney

Yeah I know, but they are all such great ideas

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## kokako

> Maybe we should register boats, licence boat drivers, introduce noise pollution levels, ban lead from hunting projectiles, ban lead for shotguns, pay girls to get pregnant, give compensation to criminals hurt during their occupational activities, pay for drunken yobs misadventures when the injure themselves, reduce the speed limit to 10mph....
> 
> anybody else want a turn?


True, but most of those things you listed don't have 60k+ PSI 100mm from your head.

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## Spanners

I have not issues in requiring a gunsmith to be qualified to do the job. 
After all you need to do a course and pass a test to drive, most jobs require a qual, you have to pass a test etc to possess a firearm but you can make and modify with nothing ?!?

Technically a dealers  license is required for manufacture and an action has to be sent to the police with blueprints etc for inspection and approval to manufacture along with other requirements

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## Sidney

That is required with actions, not barrels.

Gunsmiths scrap commercial actions every day in this country because of expansion...  I assume those actions were all checked and proofed.

Stagers have no incentive apart from safety in this issue?

Where are the people who have been injured as a result of all these shonky gunsmiths?

The whole... we have a problem, we must regulate attitude sucks...

People who acquired these barrels are not inexperienced, people who design and develop wildcat cartridges can identify expansion issues and catastrophic failure without warning signs are unlikely.

This is a niche area, a niche issue and we get... we must regulate....

In this country over the last few years, we have had a significant development in knowledge and understanding of cartridge and rifles particularly in the long range area that may never have occurred had everyone been qualified, and every design proofed before experimentation could occur.

Thats the last thing we need....

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## Spanners

Have you seen the differences between a Blazer and say a Rem?

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## Sidney

I wouldn't own a remington

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## R93

> That is required with actions, not barrels.
> 
> Gunsmiths scrap commercial actions every day in this country because of expansion...  I assume those actions were all checked and proofed.
> 
> Stagers have no incentive apart from safety in this issue?
> 
> Where are the people who have been injured as a result of all these shonky gunsmiths?
> 
> The whole... we have a problem, we must regulate attitude sucks...
> ...


99% of so called gunsmiths in the world come from either the military as qualified armourers (of differing standards) or a fitter turner/engineering background. 
When I completed my apprenticeship as an armourer I was offered a pretty gunsmiths cetificate from the UK.........for a fee. I am a qualified armourer, not a gunsmith. However I could set up shop without batting an eyelid or facing any regulation because in NZ I a deemed qualified as a smith.

Apart from skilled woodwork, fine engraving and in depth small arms theory, there is not much else to gunsmithing that a fitter-turner is not qualified to do, imo.  
Military armourers sometimes get a bad wrap from lesser qualified people yet the 2 police armourers are ex military and they are trusted and expected to give evidence that can convict criminals.

If regulation was required for small arms repair in NZ who is qualified to oversee/govern it and would it really do anymore to prevent damage or injury?

In my current job they almost regulate the colour of your urine :Grin:

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## R93

> I wouldn't own a remington


I would maybe utilize an action.

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## ebf

> Have you seen the differences between a Blazer and say a Rem?


Blazer is a casual men's jacket ?

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## gimp

And autocorrect is a bitch

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## Friwi

> I wouldn't own a remington


I would own a Remington 700 over a blaser any day.
I have seen the state of a Remington action in 7-08 after shooting a full load of pistol powder. The action was blocked , the extractor and ejector disappeared  and the bolt nose was flattened but it held!!! The gunsmisth had to mill a slot over the side of the receiver to be able to remove the barrel.

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## kiwijames

I'd own a Blaser over a Rem any day. I own both. The Rem is a cunt of a thing to get to anywhere near what the Blaser is off the shelf. 

Oh and the Blaser action will hold anything a 2 lug Rem700 ever will.

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## Sidney

I have owned remingtons so I am allowed to not like them...

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## Kiwi Greg

> I'd own a Blaser over a Rem any day. I own both. *The Rem is a cunt of a thing to get to anywhere near what the Blaser is off the shelf*. 
> 
> Oh and the Blaser action will hold anything a 2 lug Rem700 ever will.


Thanks for that, the funniest thing I have read in years  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:

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## kiwijames

> Thanks for that, the funniest thing I have read in years


So your business is a load of snake oil then Greg? Cause if it really was funny, an off the shelf Rem would not have 400 billion optional aftermarket parts.

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## mikee

> So your business is a load of snake oil then Greg? Cause if it really was funny, an off the shelf Rem would not have 400 billion optional aftermarket parts.


At least the 400 billion aftermarket Remington parts are affordable, and available from almost any "chemist". *I own neither brand by the way.* 

I did look at an F3 but decided it would make no difference to my shooting. 2 of my mates use em but I don't like either of them and would rather have a Browning or Beretta and keep the change. Not to mention I could buy aftermarket bit from more than a single supplier/importer.

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## kiwijames

> At least the 400 billion aftermarket Remington parts are affordable, and available from almost any "chemist". *I own neither brand by the way.* 
> 
> I did look at an F3 but decided it would make no difference to my shooting. 2 of my mates use em but I don't like either of them and would rather have a Browning or Beretta and keep the change. Not to mention I could buy aftermarket bit from more than a single supplier/importer.


For more than 1 caliber option the R93 platform becomes pretty affordable actually. There are more than one way to skin a cat  when it comes to supplier options too. I stopped buying from the local agent years ago. 
The price argument is a bit weak with respect though. Its like saying Ladas are good cars cause they are cheap? 
The only Blaser aftermarket parts I know of (other than accessories) are the Bix n Andy triggers. Kind of says something?
Kinda getting well off topic though. 

I knew this was a shit thread from the get go.

FYI Id shoot no better with an F3 too, a Baikel would still be too good for me when it comes to smooth bores!

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## mikee

> The price argument is a bit weak with respect though. Its like saying Ladas are good cars cause they are cheap?


The original post read like a "Sales Pitch"  more than a "Safety Notice" 

I have been to and lived in USSR for 7 months. Lada's are bloody good cars they were the only one's that survived.

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## Ground Control

> For more than 1 caliber option the R93 platform becomes pretty affordable actually. There are more than one way to skin a cat  when it comes to supplier options too. I stopped buying from the local agent years ago. 
> The price argument is a bit weak with respect though. Its like saying Ladas are good cars cause they are cheap? 
> The only Blaser aftermarket parts I know of (other than accessories) are the Bix n Andy triggers. Kind of says something?
> Kinda getting well off topic though. 
> 
> I knew this was a shit thread from the get go.
> 
> FYI Id shoot no better with an F3 too, a Baikel would still be too good for me when it comes to smooth bores!


I agree this thread kind of seems like a beat up from the start .
I will put all of my cards on the table .
I got my firearms license in the mid 1980's , in that time I have owned numerous brands and different calibers , you name it , I've probably owned it  .
Now in 2013 I have sold off most of my meager collection of firearms and own a shotgun a F3 Sporter , a  centerfire R93 7mm Rem Mag - .223 Rem , rimfire Walther and Anschutz .
Why have I whittled it down to just a handful of options ?
Because what I own now works with the minimum of fuss and bother , without having to send things to gunsmiths and without the unknown  "what if's " of home improvement  .
My firearms work , and they work the way the factory made them to work , they work the way that experts of the firearm industry designed them to work  , not the way that marketing gurus think it works , not the way the factory wished and hoped they would work , one day in a make believe Never Never Land .
In my line of work I own many tools and different types of equipment .
My firearms requirements are no different .
They must do their job without excuses .
It's why I own Snap-On sockets and Sid-Chrome screw drivers .

Ken

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## gimp

I'd own a Blaser if there was an option for detach mags that wasn't the worst in existence

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## Sidney

Its not that bad... haven't heard of anybody who has lost one... the trigger is still excellent, and to be honest I actually prefer taking the trigger and mag away from the rifle and leaving the bolt in it when making safe or storing.  The fire control/bolt assembly has slide rails that extend from the body and in my view are considerably less robust that the equivalent bolt in a conventional rifle.  It is preferable to leave it in the rifle, hence the detach trigger/mag isn't a bad idea.

To remove the trigger mag both sides have to be squeezed at the same time, making accident loss unlikely unless not properly inserted in the first place...

You can get a whole replacement unit easily enough and while dearer than most mags, bit over $400... not completely out of the question to have a spare carried as a quick mag change anyway...

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## gimp

$462 US for a second mag. I'm not worried about losing it, I just Don't Like It.

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## Sidney

Cant help you with that

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## sneeze

Well this is all looks very clumsy really.

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## tui_man2

Oh what happens when you are away hunting for the week......................

As you all might have click to what this is all about I can only say little due to me involving a lawyer.

*Yes it is one of MY receivers

*Yes I did the fit up of a barrel SUPPLIED

*The barrel in question has had more then ONE shot................

*The barrel in question IS NOT my 7mm Gonzo chamber (7mm-300 Blazer with shoulder pushed forward an 40 degree shoulder) it IS another 7mm-300 Blazer chamber that I had no part in the design an spec

*It IS NOT a headspace issue (spanners) WAS spaced 2thou on the supplied GO gauge

*The Receivers on both the R93 an R8 HAVE been pressure tested

*Stager sports had refused to email back after they raised concerns in a email 2 weeks ago, when I said I was happy to supply the information UPON THEM signing a confidentiality agreement, to no reply

*These receivers are not a overnight hair brain idea.....A lot of time an testing has gone into them with user safety taken as number one like any other job.

Happy to answer questions on here or any other method within reason due to taking the matter further some will not be answered
I have nothing to hide or intend on hiding in this matter.

I is on the other hand quite funny reading through an seen the same people on the band wagon that just happen to know not a thing about these...................

Abe

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## The Claw

> Oh what happens when you are away hunting for the week......................


It's always the worst part of coming back to the real world after hunting ah? My phone went mad with work emails & messages as soon as reception kicked in....

Still, worth it for a week in the hills hunting Tahr & the odd coon...


Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk

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## Blaser

Always 2 sides to every story, hope it gets all sorted soon Abe.

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## gimp

> Cant help you with that


I understand why it is the design that it is, and why it has to be. I just don't like the multipiece plastic mag, the cost of additional, and removing the trigger unit with the mag. I can't think of a mag system I like less, hence, worst in the world.

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## username

> It's always the worst part of coming back to the real world after hunting ah? My phone went mad with work emails & messages as soon as reception kicked in....
> 
> Still, worth it for a week in the hills hunting Tahr & the odd coon...
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk


You guys always have great tahr hunts howd this one go?

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## tui_man2

A note that has been sent to my customers that are in the process of purchasing or own one of my r93 or r8 custom barrels.

I am 100% confident in my product you own or about to own, and after this wee out burst from stager sports if you don't feel happy with it, please return your assembly for full refund. But again stand by and support my products I just don't want people thinking they own anything 'dangerous' as stager sports has implied.

As a further note if you are looking at  genuine Blaser parts or complete rifles an not looking at paying stager sports prices or having stager sports service, please feel free to be in touch for a quote

Abe

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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## tui_man2

> You guys always have great tahr hunts howd this one go?


We had a good time in the hills but no monsters where harmed on this trip 

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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## R93

> A note that has been sent to my customers that are in the process of purchasing or own one of my r93 or r8 custom barrels.
> 
> I am 100% confident in my product you own or about to own, and after this wee out burst from stager sports if you don't feel happy with it, please return your assembly for full refund. But again stand by and support my products I just don't want people thinking they own anything 'dangerous' as stager sports has implied.
> 
> As a further note if you are looking at  genuine Blaser parts or complete rifles an not looking at paying stager sports prices or having stager sports service, please feel free to be in touch for a quote
> 
> Abe
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk


You cant complain about service like that. 

Well done standing by your work, both morally and financially, a trait that is generally lacking in NZ.

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## Tahr

This whole thing is a blueprint of how not to handle a complaint. By both sides.
Litigating a product problem over the Internet is just crazy. There will be no winners here. Everything either side says on here just adds to the polarisation.

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## gimp

> Always 2 sides to every story, hope it gets all sorted soon Abe.


Standard procedure is to pick the one you prefer and ignore the other entirely

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## R93

Hang on! The OP, a first time poster I might add, made a huge statement against a product fabricated by a member of this site. Yes it was anonymous, but any muppet with half a brain knew who they were talking about.
That member is to just sit there and ignore it?

Is it just accepted to allow people to walk all over you? Soft cocks.
The bloke stood up for himself where he is a member and regular contributor...................... good on him, he has said his piece.

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## gimp

> Hang on! The OP, a first time poster I might add, made a huge statement against a product fabricated by a member of this site. Yes it was anonymous, but any muppet with half a brain knew who they were talking about.
> That member is to just sit there and ignore it?
> 
> Is it just accepted to allow people to walk all over you? Soft cocks.
> The bloke stood up for himself where he is a member and regular contributor...................... good on him, he has said his piece.


Can you quote whomever you're responding to

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## Tahr

> Hang on! The OP, a first time poster I might add, made a huge statement against a product fabricated by a member of this site. Yes it was anonymous, but any muppet with half a brain knew who they were talking about.
> That member is to just sit there and ignore it?
> 
> Is it just accepted to allow people to walk all over you? Soft cocks.
> The bloke stood up for himself where he is a member and regular contributor...................... good on him, he has said his piece.


I guess it depends on your approach. You can defend your reputation in many other ways. The last place I would attempt to do it would be on here. And please don't bring the rigidity or otherwise of my penis into this. Or I will make a complaint.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Sidney

> I guess it depends on your approach. You can defend your reputation in many other ways. The last place I would attempt to do it would be on here. And please don't bring the rigidity or otherwise of my penis into this. Or I will make a complaint.


Yes you can, but the normal practice is to defend your reputation is the place that it was challenged.  The response was hardly antagonistic and clarified many of the claims made in the same arena.

The follow up has been to reassure existing customers and to guarantee the work, again hardly a negative thing and surely the most appropriate place, given the original choice made by the OP'er...

It is not yet a slanging match and if that does not eventuate, your assessment is presumptive...

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## R93

> Can you quote whomever you're responding to


I would have quoted if I was targeting an individual. I am not. But is interesting to see how quickly a couple posters are ready to defend what they have stated, regarding my post. So how can you expect the fella concerned in this thread not to. :Wink:

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## gimp

> Cant help you with that


I understand why it is the design that it is, and why it has to be. I just don't like the multipiece plastic mag, the cost of additional, and removing the trigger unit with the mag. I can't think of a mag system I like less, hence, worst in the world.

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## username

> It's always the worst part of coming back to the real world after hunting ah? My phone went mad with work emails & messages as soon as reception kicked in....
> 
> Still, worth it for a week in the hills hunting Tahr & the odd coon...
> 
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk


You guys always have great tahr hunts howd this one go?

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## tui_man2

A note that has been sent to my customers that are in the process of purchasing or own one of my r93 or r8 custom barrels.

I am 100% confident in my product you own or about to own, and after this wee out burst from stager sports if you don't feel happy with it, please return your assembly for full refund. But again stand by and support my products I just don't want people thinking they own anything 'dangerous' as stager sports has implied.

As a further note if you are looking at  genuine Blaser parts or complete rifles an not looking at paying stager sports prices or having stager sports service, please feel free to be in touch for a quote

Abe

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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## tui_man2

> You guys always have great tahr hunts howd this one go?


We had a good time in the hills but no monsters where harmed on this trip 

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

----------


## R93

> A note that has been sent to my customers that are in the process of purchasing or own one of my r93 or r8 custom barrels.
> 
> I am 100% confident in my product you own or about to own, and after this wee out burst from stager sports if you don't feel happy with it, please return your assembly for full refund. But again stand by and support my products I just don't want people thinking they own anything 'dangerous' as stager sports has implied.
> 
> As a further note if you are looking at  genuine Blaser parts or complete rifles an not looking at paying stager sports prices or having stager sports service, please feel free to be in touch for a quote
> 
> Abe
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk


You cant complain about service like that. 

Well done standing by your work, both morally and financially, a trait that is generally lacking in NZ.

----------


## Tahr

This whole thing is a blueprint of how not to handle a complaint. By both sides.
Litigating a product problem over the Internet is just crazy. There will be no winners here. Everything either side says on here just adds to the polarisation.

----------


## gimp

> Always 2 sides to every story, hope it gets all sorted soon Abe.


Standard procedure is to pick the one you prefer and ignore the other entirely

----------


## R93

Hang on! The OP, a first time poster I might add, made a huge statement against a product fabricated by a member of this site. Yes it was anonymous, but any muppet with half a brain knew who they were talking about.
That member is to just sit there and ignore it?

Is it just accepted to allow people to walk all over you? Soft cocks.
The bloke stood up for himself where he is a member and regular contributor...................... good on him, he has said his piece.

----------


## gimp

> Hang on! The OP, a first time poster I might add, made a huge statement against a product fabricated by a member of this site. Yes it was anonymous, but any muppet with half a brain knew who they were talking about.
> That member is to just sit there and ignore it?
> 
> Is it just accepted to allow people to walk all over you? Soft cocks.
> The bloke stood up for himself where he is a member and regular contributor...................... good on him, he has said his piece.


Can you quote whomever you're responding to

----------


## Tahr

> Hang on! The OP, a first time poster I might add, made a huge statement against a product fabricated by a member of this site. Yes it was anonymous, but any muppet with half a brain knew who they were talking about.
> That member is to just sit there and ignore it?
> 
> Is it just accepted to allow people to walk all over you? Soft cocks.
> The bloke stood up for himself where he is a member and regular contributor...................... good on him, he has said his piece.


I guess it depends on your approach. You can defend your reputation in many other ways. The last place I would attempt to do it would be on here. And please don't bring the rigidity or otherwise of my penis into this. Or I will make a complaint.  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Sidney

> I guess it depends on your approach. You can defend your reputation in many other ways. The last place I would attempt to do it would be on here. And please don't bring the rigidity or otherwise of my penis into this. Or I will make a complaint.


Yes you can, but the normal practice is to defend your reputation is the place that it was challenged.  The response was hardly antagonistic and clarified many of the claims made in the same arena.

The follow up has been to reassure existing customers and to guarantee the work, again hardly a negative thing and surely the most appropriate place, given the original choice made by the OP'er...

It is not yet a slanging match and if that does not eventuate, your assessment is presumptive...

----------


## R93

> Can you quote whomever you're responding to


I would have quoted if I was targeting an individual. I am not. But is interesting to see how quickly a couple posters are ready to defend what they have stated, regarding my post. So how can you expect the fella concerned in this thread not to. :Wink:

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