# Outdoors > Fishing >  1080 KILLING FISH

## Boaraxa

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-st...in-some-trout/

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## veitnamcam

I hope you used your vote against it.
I did and will accept no whingeing whatsoever about 1080 from people who didn't use their vote appropriately.

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## Rushy

I saw the article about that on three news tonight.  What can a long time opponent say except "we bloody told them so"

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## kiwijames

Where were the fish being killed?

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## cambo

IMMEDIATE RELEASE 26th September, 2014

ANGLERS ADVISED NOT TO EAT TROUT IN 1080 AREAS

With the fishing season opening in just a few days (1 October 2014), anglers are being warned by the Department of Conservation(DOC) not to eat trout from pristine backcountry waters and their downstream catchments, where the department is conducting 1080 poisoning operations.

In response to publicly expressed concerns by the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater Anglers, and supported by Fish & Game New Zealand, DOC commissioned research by the independent Cawthron Research Institute on the risks of mice carrying sub-lethal levels of 1080, and which are routinely consumed by trout, becoming a food safety risk for humans.

Chief executive of Fish & Game New Zealand, Bryce Johnson says “The results indicate that, 1080 levels in trout flesh were significantly in excess of recognised Food Safety guidelines(FSA) for safe human health and DOC is now having to advise anglers not to eat trout caught in 1080 poisoned catchments, until advised otherwise.”

“Anglers fishing back country waters, including overseas anglers who come here because of the trout fishery’s international reputation, have always been able to assume that it is totally safe to catch a trout and eat it. Sadly, this turns that over and is not a good look for New Zealand’s 100% pure environmental brand.”

The massive poisoning operation being conducted by DOC, is in response to the anticipated ‘mouse plague’ caused by the cyclic production of beech seeds in native forests, for which this year is a high point.

“While we understand why DoC is doing this, the findings from this recent research has added a very significant and concerning new dimension to the 1080 debate”, said Mr Johnson.

Fish & Game also believe the ramifications of this extend well beyond just the poison sites, and Mr Johnson added he was pleased DOC has investigated the anglers concerns, accepted the research findings and has taken the lead in managing the consequences.

Mr Johnson says that while he realises the timing, so close to the season opening is unfortunate, his organisation has been left with no choice, but to support this advisory from DoC, and adds that “further research, to more closely simulate the natural, wild environment is needed, to provide a more accurate picture of the risks.”

“Fish and game is not saying don’t go fishing in the back country, just don’t eat the fish.”

ENDS

FURTHER INFORMATION
Bryce Johnson chief executive Fish & Game NZ Mob: 021397897 bjohnson@fishandgame.org.nz
Andrew Currie South Island communications advisor Mob: 021 646245 acurrie@fishandgame.org.nz

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## veitnamcam

So how long before we start to regularly see the effects of this in humans, It is already happening and will only get worse as the causes are identified.

Nzs agent orange and formaldehyde.

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## Tahr

Where does it say that trout are dying?

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## veitnamcam

It doesn't, it says don't eat them.
Of course everyone in the country  who may eat a trout will be fully aware of this because all outdoors people follow current affairs relentlessly   :Wtfsmilie: 
So we can all be confident nobody will eat a trout(or eel or koura) by accident that has dangerous levels of 1080 with all the high level publicity  :36 1 7:

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## kiwijames

> So how long before we start to regularly see the effects of this in humans, *It is already happening* and will only get worse as the causes are identified.
> 
> Nzs agent orange and formaldehyde.


Care to publish this data Cam? As much as I like you mate there is WAY too much emotion and far to little FACT. I was on the other side of the fence too but this shit has been dumped across NZ for a little while aye. Yet to see a negative, unless you count the rhetoric and anguish and I see far too many supposed hunters using 1080 as a selfish excuse for plainly being a shit hunter. We see plenty of the crap up here too and honestly, the hunting gets better every year.
Even this thread starts off "1080 KILLING FISH" and yet there is not one dead fish? Standard drama queen anti 1080 attitude?

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## gimp

they warn you not to eat deer out of 1080 drop areas too for a period of time, same reason, not exactly some big dramatic mystery or new thing

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## veitnamcam

Women fall ill after 1080 drop

Just one example and they didn't even eat any, of course they were immediately discredited by the powers that be as being in the wrong place but their camera logged gps position.'
This is just what we are hearing now despite the best efforts ( to keep all reporting peachy)of those looking after our(their own) best interests.
 Another 20-30 years and mark my words all sorts of public health issues will be traced back to 1080.
.

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## cambo

Just wait till an overseas country we export meat and milk to, tests the product and finds traces of 1080.
NZ will be stuffed overnight.

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## gimp

I can find you people who claim to be ill because of alien abductions too

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## veitnamcam

> they warn you not to eat deer out of 1080 drop areas too for a period of time, same reason, not exactly some big dramatic mystery or new thing


How many trout/salmon/eel/koura fishermen do you think routinely check to see if the catchment has been 1080d? Dunno if you have kids but say you had some young boys going camping recon they would try and catch a feed and eat it?

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## veitnamcam

> I can find you people who claim to be ill because of alien abductions too


Can you find medical practitioners  who say they are ill from alien abductions ?

I can find politician's who claim 1080 poison is no more harmful than a bag of salt and vinegar chips too!

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## 243

R44 and has f/all all to do with 1080

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## Dundee

> R44 and has f/all all to do with 1080


Good I hope all goes well with the search

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## Scribe

> NZ Herald,
> 
> To Few Rats For Planned 1080 Drop
> 
> A planned 1080 drop in South Westland has been called off as there are not enough rats.
> 
> ..................................................  ..................................................  ..................................................  ..
> I wonder what all this is about. Surely they knew how many rats were in the block before they planned the drop.
> 
>  Or then again maybe they didn't


This sort  of decision making has got to remind you of the crazy looking Chinaman on the TV. 'We Just Spray And Walk Away'

And wait for the Cheque.

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## kiwijames

> This sort  of decision making has got to remind you of the crazy looking Chinaman on the TV. 'We Just Spray And Walk Away'
> 
> And wait for the Cheque.


Make up your mind. Now your whinging cause they're not 1080ing?

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## Dundee

This vid says it all.

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## Scribe

> Make up your mind. Now your whinging cause they're not 1080ing?


Nup not whingeing, just glad the country saving a bit of money. I have done enough pre poison and Post Poison monitoring for DOC to know they don't need much excuse to dump the shit.

Now just trying to work out the real reason the drop has been canned. I thought maybe Nick Smith has some important friends he wants to take trout fishing in that block.

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## veitnamcam

> Yup. Heard this morning it went missing.
> Is it NW wind up there cam?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Would have been SW i think.
Hope they find him alive.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Scribe

> Would have been SW i think.
> Hope they find him alive.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


I hope they find him alive too. Got a name yet Cam. I have a friend.......

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## veitnamcam

> I hope they find him alive too. Got a name yet Cam. I have a friend.......


No name yet that i can find.

Give him a call.

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## R93

Flew for Wayne I think out of Karamea?

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## Dundee

Helipro has gone into recievership.

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## Scribe

> No name yet that i can find.
> 
> Give him a call.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


And get his wife, Christ what am I going to say then. My tongue would cleave to the roof of my mouth.

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## R93

> Helipro has gone into recievership.


For real? Doesn't suprise me. It is really a dying industry in NZ.

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## Scribe

> Flew for Wayne I think out of Karamea?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Thanks very much for that R93.

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## R93

> Thanks very much for that R93.


Yeah not a hundy on that. Just rumour mill at the moment.
Hope he just had to put it down an lost electrics.
Beacon should still work but.

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## outdoorlad

> I hope they find him alive too. Got a name yet Cam. I have a friend.......


 @Scribe Missing pilot's partner prays for safe return | Stuff.co.nz

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## Scribe

Thanks 'outdoorlad' When someone is safe it just means another is not, now isn't that true.

I hope they find him soon

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## Pengy

UPDATE #4 - Search underway for missing helicopter in Nelson region - Maritime New Zealand

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## Dundee

DOC has just been given the green light to dump 1080 in the Hunua Ranges next year. This should be of concern to Aucklanders as that is where the water supply comes from.

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## Scribe

> DOC has just been given the green light to dump 1080 in the Hunua Ranges next year. This should be of concern to Aucklanders as that is where the water supply comes from.


Yep talk back radio today has been alive with the complaints of alarmed Aucklander's.

I just finished getting Waikato Regional Council to take down their website that claims no one has been killed by 1080.

Will tackle Forest and Bird tomorrow on the same claim.

Lying Bastards.

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## kiwijames

> DOC has just been given the green light to dump 1080 in the Hunua Ranges next year. This should be of concern to Aucklanders as that is where the water supply comes from.


Umm probably not DOC. Try ARC I'm pretty sure

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## Rushy

Auckland Council.  Wombles that they are.

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## kiwijames

> Auckland Council.  Wombles that they are.


Blame DOC anyway. They're bound to be getting a back hander for it, or at least getting invites to Nick Smiths epic fishing adventures.

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## Dundee

More 1080 health concerns here.

Midwives warn of 1080 risk - health - national | Stuff.co.nz

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## cambo

New Conservation Minister Maggie Barry has come out endorsing 1080 use.   :Angry: 
New conservation minister endorses 1080 | Stuff.co.nz

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## Dundee

> New Conservation Minister Maggie Barry has come out endorsing 1080 use.  
> New conservation minister endorses 1080 | Stuff.co.nz


BITCH!!!

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## doinit

Maggie would only know what the DOC etc spin tells her,the way it always is. This sort of carry on does get to you if you let it and especially so after decades of being around the shit. The powers that push  the shit are nothing more than total f##kin morons in my book,beats the crap out of me how these pricks can sleep at night.

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## anderset20

Thought we would try the local doc block here this weekend. Waste of time that was when we got to this sign. Went for a walk anyway. Was interesting seeing absolutely nothing. Not even a rabbit. Shame. 


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## Rushy

> BITCH!!!


I sat behind her on a flight back to Auckland last Wednesday.  If only I had known this I would have had a captive audience for an hour.

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## cambo

Time to find alternatives to 1080 | Scoop News

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## Rushy

Well bugger me.

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## cambo

Department of Conservation Responsible for Rat Plagues

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## kiwijames

> Thought we would try the local doc block here this weekend. Waste of time that was when we got to this sign. Went for a walk anyway. Was interesting seeing absolutely nothing. Not even a rabbit. Shame. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Whoa up. The sign is dated 26/6/14 and it was in bait stations.

Those wascally wabbits been taking it outta the stations and feeding the fish?

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## anderset20

> Whoa up. The sign is dated 26/6/14 and it was in bait stations.
> 
> Those wascally wabbits been taking it outta the stations and feeding the fish?


Yeah that was just 1 sign. They also heli dropped the whole block too which we were told by the ski field owner. He said they dropped it on the snow so that it froze over the winter and would thaw in spring. We did find that bait station by that sign with a dead wallaby near it with a cage over it and a note saying it was for surveying 


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## cambo

Just read this.....
Council's secret investment in 1080 factory

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## Rushy

> Just read this.....
> Council's secret investment in 1080 factory


Criminal misuse of rate payer funding.

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## veitnamcam

> Just read this.....
> Council's secret investment in 1080 factory


As a chch tax payer?(I assume) how do you feel about this?

Personally I think its a short term investment, the public opinion and tide is turning.

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## Dundee

> As a chch tax payer?(I assume) how do you feel about this?
> 
> Personally I think its a short term investment, the public opinion and tide is turning.


I reckon the tide is turning too there has been more publicity about this shit in the last 3 months. And two drops have been called off and another stopped by the barge owner that didn't want to ferry it to where the op was.  And the Jaffas water supply is getting a dose.   

But Cambo yes that sux :Sick:  Another green factory is the pits :Sad:

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## Scribe

> Just read this.....
> Council's secret investment in 1080 factory


I have been chewing on this for a couple of days. What a tangled and deadly web they weave.

Westland Regional Council.

1/ They charge the ratepayers a pest control levy, or make them pay under the general rating system to have their forests 1080ed. 

2/ They send in their own approved contractors to do the pre poison monitoring on which supposedly the decision is made to 1080 a block.

3/ Then their approved contactor who has the approved Resource Consents issued by the same Council to him for 20 years is awarded the contract to spread the 1080.

4/ The approved contactor then purchases the necessary tonnage of poison from the 1080 factory that is all or partially owned by the Westland Regional Council.

You would have to say that this is pretty incestuous.

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## veitnamcam

I see on the news the department is worryed about loss of butterflys and other insects.
In the last 40 years our insect life has halved.
Might have something to do with dropping insecticide all over our country for the last 40 odd years eh .
Some how i doubt they have connected those dots. :rolleyes:

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## cambo

And it puts honey exports in jeopardy as well. Especially the lucrative manuka honey.
A lot of Westcoast hives been dieing and others have had to be killed due to 1080 poisoning. All honey from affected hives has had to be destroyed as well.

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## Pengy

> I have been chewing on this for a couple of days. What a tangled and deadly web they weave.
> 
> Westland Regional Council.
> 
> 1/ They charge the ratepayers a pest control levy, or make them pay under the general rating system to have their forests 1080ed. 
> 
> 2/ They send in their own approved contractors to do the pre poison monitoring on which supposedly the decision is made to 1080 a block.
> 
> 3/ Then their approved contactor who has the approved Resource Consents issued by the same Council to him for 20 years is awarded the contract to spread the 1080.
> ...


I have to agree Scribe, It sounds dodgy as hell. But I would bet my last dollar that the whole deal is tight as a Camel`s arse in a sandstorm legally. :Sad:

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## Pengy

> And it puts honey exports in jeopardy as well. Especially the lucrative manuka honey.
> A lot of Westcoast hives been dieing and others have had to be killed due to 1080 poisoning. All honey from affected hives has had to be destroyed as well.


 @cambo. If you have any documented proof of this, please please go public with it

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## cambo

> @cambo. If you have any documented proof of this, please please go public with it


Just been talking to a honey guy recently. He was telling me about it. Dunno if there is anything on paper. Just his knowledge of what's happening in the industry.

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## Pengy

If true. it could be huge

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## Dundee

Righto guys and gals every bit we can do to stop this shit has too be done.

Good protest from the fullas at Hoki today.

Another petition has been started 462 signatures when I signed it takes 2 secs to sign. 4000 members here surely some will sign.

Petition · Refuse consent for a pesticide factory producing 1080 poison, in the Izone, Rolleston. · Change.org

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## Scribe

> Just been talking to a honey guy recently. He was telling me about it. Dunno if there is anything on paper. Just his knowledge of what's happening in the industry.


Cambo, I have a Landcare Research Document that states that 1080 was found in three samples of honey comb in the Taumaranui District after a 1080 drop.

I will pull the document out of my large collection of files tomorrow and post it here.

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## Scribe

This letter was published in the Hauraki Herald about a year ago. After it was I was rung by some very excitable people including the President of the Beekeepers Association. They wanted to know if I had the proof so I pointed them in the direction of the correct science.

Interesting thing was the President of the Beekeepers Association open up a little then and told me of a beekeeper a little further up the coast from where I live who had complained to the beekeeper associating that the dye in the 1080 pellets had stained his honeycomb a green blue colour.

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## Scouser

> Righto guys and gals every bit we can do to stop this shit has too be done.
> 
> Good protest from the fullas at Hoki today.
> 
> Another petition has been started 462 signatures when I signed it takes 2 secs to sign. 4000 members here surely some will sign.
> 
> Petition · Refuse consent for a pesticide factory producing 1080 poison, in the Izone, Rolleston. · Change.org



Ive signed Dundee...

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## veitnamcam

Signed

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## Dundee

Good on yas 779 signatures now.

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## Gibo

I must have been 780 then  :Wink:

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## blake

I've signed.

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## JoshC

Signed. Time to find an alternative. Several decades of throwing this sh*t around the back country and it still hasn't worked.

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## Scribe

> Signed. Time to find an alternative. Several decades of throwing this sh*t around the back country and it still hasn't worked.


Well said JoshC,  We that have lived with the curse of 1080 are able to judge the real results, despite the 4 million dollars spent annually on propaganda by DOC, AHB and Regional Councils..

Wife and I have signed

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## Wirehunt

@ex culler, your a bastard  :Grin: 

To all the ones screaming 'cost effective'   A little bit of information for you when it comes to doc.  We don't know if it's cost effective or not cause doc now don't do any pre monitoring.  *Because of that they don't even know if they need to poison*.  How is that cost effective?  HOW???
  That is straight from the horses mouth via an OIA request, Science and Capability Group of doc.
Go look at the AHB website, best practice says you need to see how many you've got BEFORE an operation.  But that is rocket science.
" Identifying the population density enables us to assess the TB risk in a particular area and target our control programme" from Pest management
  You do realise that if they carry on with the current thinking/methods possums are going to be out of control soon in places they have never been of real concern till now.

  Now all those with kids, go ask then what they have learnt about science.   I know my 10 year old already knows you've got to have figures to begin with when studying anything.

  On the AHB, do you realise they at times pay $80+ per possum?   That is before monitoring and admin costs.  Wanna know something else?  I'm seeing more possums now than I have for years, and this is on farms that AHB runs over regularly needed or not.

  But the AHB is all about TB, as others have said other countries have gotten rid of it without using this shit.  
One question.  If a truck is used to transport TB reactors what happens to it afterwards?
Does it get fully sterilized then go through multiple screenings? 

  Now the 1080 in fish, the mice/rats might be the reason I've gotten a report on bluecod and anothrer fish type appearing with 1080 residue.  Still researching this one cause at this point I can't confirm it.

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## Scribe

"Wirehunt" You mentioned that the cost per possum killed by AHB can approach $80.00 which is true.

But look at the cost of killing these possums in the Coromandel.

A secret deal was done between Waikato Regional Council and the Te Mata Forest owners which I managed to get a copy of (Non disclosure document0 and sent the above article and the document to the Waikato Times.

They gave it big coverage and their were a few singed feathers over the next couple of weeks. Plain Fucking incompetence.

That's our money.

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## Dundee

Caught the last 5 minutes of the Auckland council meeting on Face TV Channel 83 just after 1300hrs today the vote was 17 for and 2 against the proposed 1080 drop.  I can't find the video online someone will know I guess?

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## Scribe

TONGARIRO....THE FOREST OF THE FUTURE.

Testing ground for large scale 1080 treatments, especially for the effects on the local kiwi population 

Intensive monitoring since 2001.

Its hard to argue that the Battle For The Birds is a success.

In 2008 trappers were brought into this Forest to reverse the decline in Whio (blue duck) and Kiwi Populations.

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## Woody

Here is a link to the latest propaganda . This link will get you to the pre recorded program to be broadcast on RNZ Thursday at 9pm.

Radio New Zealand Audio Player



There is at least one blatant misleading statement made in the little I have heard thus far, and that is the claim that poison operators take great care to avoid dropping 1080 poison into waterways. This is utterly untrue and in fact the AHB , in conjunction with DoC has made efforts to make certain they ARE given resource consents allowing them to drop into waterways and lakes.



There is also a statement made that areas as large (which is very small really) as 10,000 ha are too large to be trapped by ground control. This is also completely untrue. And in fact, trapping can be cheaper and more effective than 1080.



The if's buts and maybe's emanating from Elliot near the end of this program prove the continuing lack of proof DoC has that 1080 is beneficial although he is attempting to cover thge lack of proof by talking about "indications".



There is also discussion about targeting stoats and rats. Stoats are carnivores and not nearly enough can be killed by depending on them dying through eating carcasses killed by 1080. The stoats do not eat 1080 cereal baits directly.



There is an important admission within the documentary, and it is made clear that" areas are unsafe for hunting due to rotting carcasses , for 4 to 6 months", which is virtually a mandatory period where rotting carcasses may continue to pollute waterways; AND YET, persons are and have been, expected to drink water from these affected catchments from within 4 days of a 1080 drop!. 



 I am sure others listening in will make further comments.


By the way, there will be a public protest outside West Coast regional Council  offices midday tomorrow. They have some very searching OIA questions to answer about their resource consent protocols and conflicts of interests, pollution of water supplies etc, now several days overdue, and have been having panic meetings behind closed doors all week.

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## Dundee

Good on ya Woody

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## hanse

I still cant believe that Maggie Barry is our conservation minister. I learnt this just now. "She had a gardening show, fuck yeah lets put her in charge!" How the fuck did she even get into parliament? 

 I don't like 1080 either and agree that it is only used because it results in a lot of fat cat pockets getting fatter. I find it hard not to get bitter and angry on the subject to be honest. 

Seems to me that the people advocating it have never been in bombed out silent bush, I mean how else could you justify it?

There is a bit of noise here (Wanaka) at the moment about getting the Makarora and Wilkin Valley drops stopped, I shall do some research and get involved.

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## Scribe

> I still cant believe that Maggie Barry is our conservation minister. I learnt this just now. "She had a gardening show, fuck yeah lets put her in charge!" How the fuck did she even get into parliament? 
> 
>  I don't like 1080 either and agree that it is only used because it results in a lot of fat cat pockets getting fatter. I find it hard not to get bitter and angry on the subject to be honest. 
> 
> Seems to me that the people advocating it have never been in bombed out silent bush, I mean how else could you justify it?
> 
> There is a bit of noise here (Wanaka) at the moment about getting the Makarora and Wilkin Valley drops stopped, I shall do some research and get involved.


Good man Hanse. Involvement is what we need.

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## Wirehunt

@hanse You can also mention the failed 1080 drops on rabbits in that area, and they had a few.   Bad practices, skill lose I'm not sure.  But it happened several times.  Of course regional council deny it but it happened more than once.   
If it fails in the easy areas why do they think they can get it right in the tricky stuff.

Also as them what the current numbers are to warrant the drops. If they don't know why don't they know.  If they don't know then how do they justify it??????????

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## Woody

This is another even stronger petition. Please get in and sign it asap. A major protest will occur at WCRC offices today  including media and TV coverage.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/431/4...n-health/#sign

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## Woody

> I still cant believe that Maggie Barry is our conservation minister. I learnt this just now. "She had a gardening show, fuck yeah lets put her in charge!" How the fuck did she even get into parliament? 
> 
>  I don't like 1080 either and agree that it is only used because it results in a lot of fat cat pockets getting fatter. I find it hard not to get bitter and angry on the subject to be honest. 
> 
> Seems to me that the people advocating it have never been in bombed out silent bush, I mean how else could you justify it?
> 
> There is a bit of noise here (Wanaka) at the moment about getting the Makarora and Wilkin Valley drops stopped, I shall do some research and get involved.


We've had a succession of f-wits as "minister/ esses of Conservation' I think Clark and Key simply pick total morons who are only good at signing off the bullshit prepared by the long term fixed notion pro poison staffers who are occupying government desks as fossil samples and Forest and Bird extremist advocates and good for FA else.

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## Dundee

> This is another even stronger petition. Please get in and sign it asap. A major protest will occur at WCRC offices today  including media and TV coverage.
> 
> http://www.thepetitionsite.com/431/4...n-health/#sign


Done

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## veitnamcam

Done

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## Scribe

Done

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## blake

Done

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## cambo

Here's an interesting read (link got from Josh James Facebook page).

Compound 1080: Another Devastating Frankentoxin, Patented By Monsanto | The Liberty Beacon

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## cambo

http://www.wadingo.com/1080development.pdf

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## Carpe Diem

Done...


> Done


Done !!!!

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## Wirehunt

Has anyone got a link or a PDF copy of the paper stating 1080 isn't water soluble?  I've read it somewhere (I think on the fnh site) but can't find it again.

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## Scouser

> This is another even stronger petition. Please get in and sign it asap. A major protest will occur at WCRC offices today  including media and TV coverage.
> 
> http://www.thepetitionsite.com/431/4...n-health/#sign


Done

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## Woody

> Has anyone got a link or a PDF copy of the paper stating 1080 isn't water soluble?  I've read it somewhere (I think on the fnh site) but can't find it again.


1080 is soluble, just like coffee. But coffee is still coffee, and 1080 is still 1080, dissolved or not. You might be getting confused by the oft made claims by the Forest and Bird  and AHB  / DoC extremists who keep saying it breaks down readily in water. This is a very misleading statement. 1080 in cold water may not "break down" for months or even years. It will break down in warm water when certain bacteria are present, but this seldom occurs in NZ's cold clear forest streams.

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## Wirehunt

That's right Woody, and there is a scientific paper about that somewhere.  Along with another couple of interesting facts.

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## Dundee

> 1080 is soluble, just like coffee. But coffee is still coffee, and 1080 is still 1080, dissolved or not. You might be getting confused by the oft made claims by the Forest and Bird  and AHB  / DoC extremists who keep saying it breaks down readily in water. This is a very misleading statement. 1080 in cold water may not "break down" for months or even years. It will break down in warm water when certain bacteria are present, but this seldom occurs in NZ's cold clear forest streams.


The only PDF file I found after a quick look.

http://1080poison.co.nz/wp-content/u.../testimony.pdf

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## cambo

Here's some more good info....
http://newzealandecology.org/nzje/2968.pdf

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## hanse

Going to see the Graf Bros show their docos at the Albert Town Pub (near Wanaka) on the 8th. I have seen bits before but will be good to get along for a look and meet a few other locals who are thinking that there is a better way.

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## Dundee

> That's right Woody, and there is a scientific paper about that somewhere.  Along with another couple of interesting facts.


Is this it??


What chemicals can manufactured 1080 break down into and how? The carbon-carbon bond in the sodium mono-fluoroacetate molecule is less stable (weaker) than the carbon-fluorine bond, and so over time and with hydration (adding H~), sunlight can break the bond down, and the molecule can degrade into sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO~) and methyl fluoride (CHEF). This could happen if the molecules are lying for some time in surface water in sunlight. How likely is this to be the situation in a forest? If the molecules have entered streams or ground water, they are also unlikely to break down via sunlight.
The chemical equation for this possible break down, if it occurs, is:
CI |2FCOONa + H2O = NaHCO3 + CH3F with all elements and their symbols accounted for.
Methyl fluoride is a volatile fluoro-hydrocarbon which rots the ozone layer and contributes to the ozone hole! (Now - there is an emotive statement!)
Sodium bicarbonate is a metal salt (common name baking soda). Metal salt is the general scientific term for a positively charged metal ion (Na+) joined to a negatively charged ion of an element, or a radicle (group of elements behaving like an element) - in this case the bicarbonate ion (HCO3). It is this term (metal salt) which may have contributed to the "salt and vinegar' story.'
The salt and vinegar story.
Some claim that hydration (adding water, as in rain) spontaneously causes the dissociation of the fluorine and a4.~tate part of the 1080 molecule. This in turn has led to the "myth', often and recently repeated that it breaks down into harmless by-products, namely "salt and vinegar" 1,2 
Salt (or common table salt) is sodium chloride (NaCI). Vinegar (or acetic acid) is CH3COOH.
Sodium monofluoroacetate cannot "break down" into salt and vinegar. It does not contain the element Chlorine (Cl) so cannot form table salt. Vinegar is not a product of the degradation of sodium monofluoroacetate.
Figure 1 shows the structure of an acetate ion. 3 Adding one hydrogen atom to it could indeed produce CH3COOH (acetic acid or vinegar). However, water (H20), has two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen one. What happens to the other hydrogen atom and the oxygen one? You cannot rip off part of a molecule unless all components of both chemicals (acetate ion and water) have been accounted for.
This is impossible anyway, because the acetate ion is not the negative ion present in 1080. It is the monofluoroacetate ion which is present. Simply adding H20 to monofluoroacetate (CH2FCOO-) does not happen, and if it could, it cannot produce vinegar. There simply are not the right number of atoms present.
When water is added to sodium monofluoroacetate it "dissolves" but dces not lose its integrity. It is diluted as the molecules are spread out in water (like dissolving coffee in water), but the molecules remain as sodium monofluoroacetate molecules.
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## Dundee

> Going to see the Graf Bros show their docos at the Albert Town Pub (near Wanaka) on the 8th. I have seen bits before but will be good to get along for a look and meet a few other locals who are thinking that there is a better way.

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## rambler

now we all just have to sit and wait for our next dose of this rubbish poison....they're ticking the districts off one by one.  According to Clyde, they're also now 'allowed' to (not that they weren't already) dump it straight into creeks and streams.  I heard through the grapevine that a deer farmer had a bucket of 1080 'accidentally' dumped into his paddocks because the chopper pilot didn't allow for wind.....in the Piriongia drop...don't know if it's true. But supposidly it wiped out 90% of his deer, so he's suing doc.  I hate the stuff - I hate what it's done to our forests...and what it's still doing. I hate the lies that those who profit from it keep spouting.  There's plenty of people out of work who could easily make a living from trapping....  I know 3 families that survive quite nicely from trapping.  Rant over.

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## Dundee

Here is a link from F&G

1080 - What you need to know. | Fish & Game NZ

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## Dundee

More here.............

NZFFA President David Haynes Report Oct 2014 | North Canterbury

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## Woody

seriously wish to support an organisation properly set up to fight 1080 then go here.

The NZ Wildlands Biodiversity Management Society Incorporated.

C/o  ESPC,  PO Box 1700
 Taupo, NZ.

www.1080.org.nz

NZ WBM is a fully registered society which aims to see New Zealand free of 1080 and similar poisons spread throughout our back country environment, rivers and streams. We have within our membership many talented and dedicated people who work together in a lawful way to bring awareness to the public and to government the actual and potential harm caused by indiscriminate use of these poisons. Research and monitoring of effects on wildlife, water and plants is ongoing. NZ WBM supports ethical hunting and the informed management of our introduced game animals and fish, including trout, pigs and deer, pheasants and quail as recreational and food supplement resources.
In order to help us protect our country and our wildlife assets we would appreciate any assistance or donations (tax deductible).  Donations may be made to NZWBM c/o ESPC, Box 1700 Taupo; OR by DIRECT CREDIT TO Bank Acc No’  020428-0080339-000        
Please provide full contact details if you wish to receive a receipt.
Any information you may have concerning misuse or negative effects of 1080 use can be communicated to the addresses above. 
Please feel free to enquire about membership.
On behalf of NZ WBM Society Inc.
Graham Sperry. Chairman.

1080, PINDONE and TALON (brodifacoum) are harming our environment, because they are being broadcast and will kill any creature, (including our game animals and wildfowl) which takes these poisons and any creature feeding on the carcasses. This includes our native birds and insects. The residues from rotting carcasses pollute our streams, plants, soils and water supplies creating health risks.

PESTS

There is no doubt that pests such as stoats, weasels, ferrets and feral cats do serious harm to our native birds, lizards, bats and insects. These introduced pest animals are not being properly targeted by the indiscriminate aerial poison applications which use baits primarily made of vegetable matter designed to attract deer, pigs and possums, while our valued native creatures are vulnerable. 
Trout are classified as one of the world’s top 100 pests (on the MAF website), yet we manage trout and value them as a recreational and food resource.

 Why should deer and pigs not also be managed as a wild recreational and food resource?
Overly high populations of deer or pigs or possums can cause harm, but in moderate densities create little harm and actually provide highly valued food, recreational and fur resources.
 1080 and brodifacoum are being used to systematically destroy those assets, especially by DoC, and the resultant effects on the deer, pigs and wildfowl being of particular concern to NZWBM, quite apart from the concerns we hold for other native wildlife, our natural water cleanliness and our quality of life.

Are There Alternative Safer Methods.

Ground based methods of targeted animal control are proven success stories with much less risk to non-target animals, birds, water and the environment in general. Often these ground based methods are cheaper than using aerial 1080.
You may ask why these safer and efficient methods are not being more fully employed.

1. Because the public (YOU) of NZ is not insisting that the DoC policy of deer and pig destruction be altered to one of asset management of these.

2. Public must insist on “non by-kill risk” protection of our native species.

3. Insist on DoC targeting the real culprits, the mustelids, rats and cats, by non aerial methods. 

Bovine Tuberculosis and the Animal Health Board. (AHB)
There is a myth being perpetuated that possums are the reason for the spread of bovine TB and that bTB is a major threat to NZ’s agricultural exports.  We believe the main reason for the spread of bTB is ineffective management of certain infected farm stock and movement controls of that stock. Cattle brought bTB into the possum, ferret and other mammal populations, not the other way around. The report carried out by NZ Institute of Economic Research for NZ Treasury (July 2000) cast grave doubts on the claims by AHB that bTB was an existing threat to NZ agricultural exports. Certainly, possums and ferrets can catch bTB, mainly from cattle, and thereby create a hazard to nearby farms and we agree that those sources of re-infection need to be addressed; however we do not agree that this requires mass distribution of 1080 over hundreds of thousands of hectares of native forest and particularly not where ground based operators using target-animal specific methods can succeed. The AHB has definitely not restricted its use of aerial 1080 to only “remote, rugged and inaccessible terrain”; in fact its operations have killed stock on farms and adjacent to main highways.
60% of AHB funding comes from taxpayers and ratepayers and YOU need to insist the government pulls the AHB into line to stop the wholesale use of 1080 and replace it with ground based methods.

Human Health and Quality of life.
A side issue of poisoned animal carcasses falling into waterways is the proliferation of e-coli and similar nasty bacteria in water, the deposition of poisonous dead animals on beaches and stream sides, risks to public and pets there-from and the ingestion of diluted poisons into the body, along with uptake of poison into some plants; e.g. Puha. This poses a risk to traditional natural plant foods and medicinal remedies.
  Past water sampling methods have not been carried out in a timely way that could properly identify 1080 contamination and the claims that only a few tests showed 1080 presence is misleading; because of the protocols used or misapplied. 
	There is increasing concern in the worldwide medical community about the effects of very low doses of chemicals on humans, especially foetuses. Tests on animals confirm deleterious effects of sub-lethal doses of 1080 on male fertility as well as other physiological effects.
The widespread use of these poisons in our country has to stop. Please help us to achieve that aim.

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## Dundee

I know these pics don't look like much but it was a rotten carcuss and there is no 1080 in our area yet.  Broadafacoum is on the the river banks thanks too the wankers in the council. :Sick:

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