# Hunting > Game Bird Hunting >  Whats your solutions to the duck decline?

## Mike H

As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer? I won't be replying in here, just viewing for the hope of some new found knowledge  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Pointer

Ban sub gauge lead! Oh wait, thats your idea. Pure genius

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## Toby

I reckon its being forced to use steel I noticed I wound more on the river compared to in the paddocks with lead. Then theres people that shoot waaaay over there limit.

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## 7mmwsm

Ban steel. Shoot hawks. Reduce limits. Shorter season.
I personally have a lot more cripples with steel. Say what you like about learning to shoot with steel, birds which should be dead often don't die instantly with steel.
Hawks are a major predator of ducks. Ducks can take to the water to avoid cats, ferrets, stoats etc, but hawks can and do pick them off the water.
Reduce limits and make the limit less on hens than drakes. I think some states in America have a system where birds are worth so many points ie a mallard hen may be worth 80 points and a drake worth 20. You are allowed to shoot so many points a day. Perhaps 100 points, so 5 drakes or 1 hen and 1 drake. 
Make the season shorter. Often ducks are pairing up by mid june around here(south waikato), and they only pair up for one reason, to start breeding.
I have a serious issue with people who shoot ducks and don't utilise them. These people shoot stuff because they think they are macho heros. If they just want to hear their gun go bang, shoot some clays.

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## Vapour

Need to protect ducks in the off season, how many die from diseased waterways, shit ponds etc? And also pukes kill a lot of chicks

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## Barefoot

Does the decline in numbers in Southland match the increase in dairy production and if so then that's what needs to be looked at.

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## mikee

> Ban steel. Shoot hawks. Reduce limits. Shorter season.


Agreed and add Pukes to the list all year round for a while or take them off the GB list and make them a pest. 

All the 3 Shot limit type stuff is just window dressing just like what the govt generally , its not about actually doing anything useful (most of the time) , its just about looking like  you are "doing something".

Also to actually encourage habitat enhancement and god forbid restocking/breeding.

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## Wirehunt

It's rocket science this.   Habitat disappearing fast, dirty rivers.  Major grain feed area's gone down south.

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## gadgetman

Out of interest, how long has the lead ban been in place for 12 gauge and what would be an average age for a mallard? If the lead was causing the earlier demise of mallards should they have had enough time to get the lead out of their systems (ie a generation or two with 95% lead reduction)? If this is the case and the numbers are still not increasing then that points to something other than lead shot being the issue and research needed to find out what are the real issues.

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## gsp follower

institute imediate water quality monitoring for all know an suspected sourses of water way pollution including local govenment sourses and other business besides farmers. protect water quality and quantity at all levels including source therfore isolating polluters and excessive overtake for irrigation.cover and treat shit ponds where birds congregate and the outbreaks of desease seem the most obvious.take the savings from goose control and immediatly begin comprehensive and multi region duck research.
in lake ellesmeres case find a better way to open it in times of flood and when it needs a good flush out. the present system is mickey mouse and expensive maybe the canal to forsyth which would allow constant sea water flushing.also bring back the grazing to the areas it was stopped there. it cleaned up all the rank overgrown areas an kept the fire risk down as well as keeping a fresh constant supply of good pick for all waterfowl.in short give more control of a waterfowl area to f&G because doc dont give a monkeys :XD: 



> As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer?


lets be clear mike i applaud your quick moves on mallard research i do not applaud you guys ignoring the very people that put you there or thier submissions and opinions. if you had the environments, habitats and waterfowls interest at heart then why repeat,albeit on a smaller scale ,a ban that in 10 years has not proved to increase waterfowl numbers or save habitat or  the environment.especially when  proven larger pollution sources get the government to legislate away thier messes

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## Maca49

Stop shooting them?

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## rupert

loss of habitat (food and home).

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## veitnamcam

Anyone watching tv one?
Catch and eat eels to save ducks  :Grin: 

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## kotuku

actually with less shooters due to lead ban &more political machinations in fact the mallard population may well have exploded eating out house &home.hence nature dictates the weakest perish.here in shakey city and out at ellesmere it seems alls dandy ,plenty of tucker f...er,and cruisin.
   same further south when camoed upin a paddock the other night had mobs of mallards cruise around us yahooing like boy racers bfore droppin in for a kai out of range!the canadas who did the same thing except stood eyeing us were in common language"extremely f..d off".lets face it any gamebird loves visiting the avian =of maccas ;a cockys crop paddock.
   Its also interesting that in the past 2yrs since nature the old bitch decided to hula,that metrosexual mallards are increasing faster than adolescent acne.
    ihave 8 who fly over my place at least twice daily mocking me.
 yup saw five under me oak tree 2weeks ago -daughters cats attempted the obvious but apologies to gareth morgan,
  a miss was as good as a mile. one old hen actualy chrged the bloody cats -the audacity of it!!
  in short ;if humans attempt to control ma nature a F..up is as sure as christ made little apples.
   actually camm youd be right there too,my late father often commented on the bloody black brutes who naIeld ducklings and wounded birds.plus theres nowt like a nice wee smoked eel!

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## veitnamcam

if humans attempt to control ma nature a F..up is as sure as christ made little apples.

Yup 



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## baldbob

I think tussock summed it quite well with his comments about dairying... i wouldnt live very well in poo either!!!!

Lets be honest it hasnt done our trout fisherys any good either!!!!

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## R93

Ducks on the Coast rely on dairying or the dairying land to be honest. I am convinced of that. Duck numbers are normally high from Karamea down to Fox glacier, mainly dairy districts. South of Fox the numbers thin out even though there is plenty of water in way of tidal lagoons and swamps. The majority of the ducks that are there, are greys and parries with very small speckeling of mallards.

Last season was the worst for numbers that I can remember around the Kokatahi-Kowhitirangi district. Prior to the season there seemed to be ducks everywhere. I missed opening weekend due to work. My usual crew went to where we always shoot the sat and did not do well considering the conditions were perfect. It was the first year that they didnt shoot their limits opening morning in that spot. My mate did shoot his limit the next day in another area.
There are 4 large farms in the family that I shoot. They have numerous ponds and normally awesome numbers of ducks. They were very quiet last season and I have no idea why.
River bed shooting is my favorite passtime during the season. In our valley large rafts of ducks are usually easy to find and with a bit of prep you always get a good shoot. There was a severe lack of birds on the rivers as well.

Apart from last season I have enjoyed being able to do a bit of leg and bino work and always have decent shoots. I no longer go out as much as I used too because of time but if I discount last season, I cannot say that dairy is the cause for a decline in ducks, on the coast at least. I assume our rainfall and run off is a huge help compared to other regions. Something strange did happen last season too the birds no doubt, but I am not sure what. 
Again this year there seems to be a lot of birds around the district from what I have seen so it will be interesting to see how this season pans out.

As for other regions, there is most likely man made reasons the numbers are dwindling. Water quality would be a big difference compared to the coast. There is no doubt lead isint the best thing for ducks to be ingesting but I would say it is a very miniscule problem in the scheme of things. I also think a lot of the issues cannot be solved by F&G because of jurisdiction. it will take a lot of effort from many different groups to get to the cause and rectify it IMHO.

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## Druid

Wildlife need the right habitat to breed and feed etc, It is habitat , habitat , habitat .

We know, from licence sales and from personal comments , that many shooters have quit the game because of the introduction  of steel shot .
Land owners/occupiers ( who cant be checked by looking at licence sales) probably quit in the same percentage and for the same reasons .

 For landowners/occupiers to keep non productive land like swamps and ponds , they must have a stake in them , ie there must be some other  benefit to them .
When they stop shooting they look at the valuable land that no longer has any recreational value to them and is  now going to waste and convert it to pasture . Exit stage left one swampy pond .

Loss of habitat before any thing else , before steel, before multishot shot guns, before feeders before flappy decoys , with an ample sufficiency of habitat all the other things can be absorbed by natural means

To paraphrase T S Elliot in the Hollow Men 

This is the way the duck shooting ends 
Not with a bang but a whimper

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## mikee

> Wildlife need the right habitat to breed and feed etc, It is habitat , habitat , habitat .
> 
> We know, from licence sales and from personal comments , that many shooters have quit the game because of the introduction  of steel shot .
> Land owners/occupiers ( who cant be checked by looking at licence sales) probably quit in the same percentage and for the same reasons .
> 
>  For landowners/occupiers to keep non productive land like swamps and ponds , they must have a stake in them , ie there must be some other  benefit to them .
> When they stop shooting they look at the valuable land that no longer has any recreational value to them and is  now going to waste and convert it to pasture . Exit stage left one swampy pond .
> 
> Loss of habitat before any thing else , before steel, before multishot shot guns, before feeders before flappy decoys , with an ample sufficiency of habitat all the other things can be absorbed by natural means
> ...


Now that is the most common sense comment on this whole debate. Are you listening F&G.

It no use having all these rules if the ducks have nowhere to do the honky bonky and raise their young


2 Years ago A group of us were considering raising/releasing pheasants. 10 of us had ideas purchasing between 50 and 100 chicks each and raise/ release em. Would have been a sizable investment in money and time for each of us. It all got too difficult. We were hoping to have a single shoot,  on one day where we might get to shoot 2-3 brace each on the day given all the money/cost/ time / effort which would be invested.  Broached it with local F&G at the time as they were tying to push "habitat enhancement". The reply was good idea but l no special permission for you sorry guys, limit is 1 Cock per day and and season was 9 days nine total. Last year the season was 3 months / ! bird per day on private land in the region, (F&G definition of private land is that "local forestry is public land even though PUBLIC do not have general free access at any time and have to apply and  PAY for a permit fee to the lease older to gain access") It was just not worth it. 

The idea has not died yet, We are still keen to do something, currently thinking that we might substitute the "Pheasant" for Guinea Fowl and hope they go "feral" enough to be an OK substitute. 
Then hunt em with the dogs and have a good day out with no hassles, no bag limit (other than common sense), common sense not silly rules, and best of all no License required. If it worked out most likely  I might never buy a licence again and just make do with gees, guinea foul and clays

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## Wirehunt

The amount of empty ponds are is staggering, and some of these ponds are in top areas.
But by the time you pay for everything it's getting out of a lot of peoples price range.  Paying double+ for steel shot to what it cost for lead, licence through the roof, habitat disappearing fast (with duck numbers down because of it)  and you wonder why people are just not bothering. 
In the last two years numbers have dropped dramatically were we shoot, yet steel shot has saved the day.  Yer right. Tui ad......

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## gsp follower

please dont lump all the f&g,s together .there are standouts that are doing good work i would have said southland was one of them even given this sub gauge debacle.
but the west coast and nth canterbury stand out and i have high hopes for csi with some new blood.remember the loudest squeak gets the most oil and in our case its fisho,s because they pay 10 times what we do towards licence revenues.even so there are signs of hope especially here with rising licence numbers and public areas getting the use the never got 2 to 3 years ago ie boggy creek a f&g owned and managed area that was overgrown and most maimai dilapidated.
i dont think dairy farms are the problem at thier source i think as with all pollution its downstream the worst effects are felt ie lakes like ellesmere and others ,where the combined messs from gods knows how much farm town and residential sources: collects. :XD:

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## mikee

> please dont lump all the f&g,s together .there are standouts that are doing good work i would have said southland was one of them even given this sub gauge debacle.
> but the west coast and nth canterbury stand out and i have high hopes for csi with some new blood.remember the loudest squeak gets the most oil and in our case its fisho,s because they pay 10 times what we do towards licence revenues.even so there are signs of hope especially here with rising licence numbers and public areas getting the use the never got 2 to 3 years ago ie boggy creek a f&g owned and managed area that was overgrown and most maimai dilapidated.
> i dont think dairy farms are the problem at thier source i think as with all pollution its downstream the worst effects are felt ie lakes like ellesmere and others ,where the combined messs from gods knows how much farm town and residential sources: collects.


I don't class all F&G branches or even staff in the same light. With out any exceptions at all the field staff I have met from both the local F&G and other areas (mid canty) have been without doubt thoroughly professional and passionate about their work, seems to be similar to most big companies. Workers (who actually notice most things and generally have the best idea of what is actually happening) are the last to be consulted.

Does this sound familiar, 

 "i hear what you are saying, but moving forward with this issue we must achieve a win win situation for all the stakeholders involved . We need to consult with the other interested parties and form focus groups to assess the situation and then move forward again as a team to have a positive outcomes. "

I would have switched off about the 9th word because I have learned that if you sift out the management buzz words what is actually achieved is nothing. 

Personal agendas are everything / everywhere and all encompassing. The majority are usually silent and get shafted. I mean if 4% of the total of all game shooters are causing such a problem they must be damn good at it. 

To put it another way if the boss wants you fired and all the other board members like you and think you are good at your job will they stand up for you?

No,  you will still be fired cause they all want to keep "in the good books and keep their" with the boss even though privately they might tell you they tried to help.



Unfortunately become very cynical as you have most likely guessed, .

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## Wirehunt

f&g is starting to have the same stink as doc.....

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## 7mmwsm

> f&g is starting to have the same stink as doc.....


Starting???

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## Samsbuddy

Most of the shot duck population, around HB, get shot on opening weekend. I would suggest the same goes everywhere in NZ.
After that its a huge drop in numbers culled simply due to the lack of hunters.
Reducing the bag limit will help reduce this volume and will have the biggest effect on bird numbers.
They may get shot later in the season but I would suggest less likely as the majority of hunters have packed up.

Shortening the season is not the answer, as explained above.

Rain and food are the major contributors to survival.
HB has had a major drop in crops, what is been grown isn't what ducks like, volume is way less almost concentrated in one area as well.
When compared to Gisborne area where there is still heaps of grain crops the bird numbers are great.

We have been trapping around our pond and the changes have been good, but we are only defending our resident population, which get culled opening day in any case. So no real help with the population. Unless we all do our part.
So far our traps have taken out 14 feral cats, 4 stoats, numerous hedgehogs, similar volume of rats although they are less frequent now.

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## Happy

> Most of the shot duck population, around HB, get shot on opening weekend. I would suggest the same goes everywhere in NZ.
> 
> Rain and food are the major contributors to survival.
> .


Gets to be a passionate topic.

Agree and see same round Waikato. Its the old school who just continually take 400 or 500 on opening weekend both blimmin days..

We seem to have stopped fishermen from being as bad. Just about everyone stays inside the snapper rules now.

How ? Because the Fish pigs do a great job.. in the right areas and take no prisoners just cane them up ..

Drought as well and farm land being worth so much " lets drain that swamp boys milk another cow off that spot ..."

How long till its like the Parrie shoots.. " Special mallard shoot every two or three years only "

Weve just spent shitloads trying to preserve what we have :ie two diggers one truck in the ponds cleaning out years worth of silt and crap.

 About all we can do really except just take our limit no more than that.

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## Bonecrusher

# Research - climatic / enviromental influences
# Habitat retention & creation
# Mallard Breeding programme 
# National policy direction not the fragmented approach we have at present individual councils having their own agenda priorities

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## Wirehunt

Just spoke with another young hunter I know (22year old).  He's out, just to expensive now......

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## Lentil

> # Research - climatic / enviromental influences
> # Habitat retention & creation
> # Mallard Breeding programme 
> # National policy direction not the fragmented approach we have at present individual councils having their own agenda priorities


Agree with Bonecrusher. You can't fix a problem until you know the cause. Research is needed - and not just a token attempt. F&G need to get serious in their attempt to find out why numbers are depleting.
The banning of lead shot is just a crock. Heaps more ducks die from predators (hawks, shags, pukeko, stoats etc). Maybe we should ban them. Although I have modified the way I shoot to enable the birds to get closer now that we use steel, I see heaps more wounded ducks from all the surrounding possies. Neil Hayes believes that wounding has gone from 7% with lead, to 50% with steel. While I don't know the accuracy of that statement, just my own observations would back that up.
As Bonecrusher put it:
Research
Habitat
Breeding program
F&G council unity

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## gsp follower

go backwards 40 years  and bring back the acclimatisation societies :Wtfsmilie:

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## EeeBees

> Now that is the most common sense comment on this whole debate. Are you listening F&G.
> 
> It no use having all these rules if the ducks have nowhere to do the honky bonky and raise their young
> 
> 
> 2 Years ago A group of us were considering raising/releasing pheasants. 10 of us had ideas purchasing between 50 and 100 chicks each and raise/ release em. Would have been a sizable investment in money and time for each of us. It all got too difficult. We were hoping to have a single shoot,  on one day where we might get to shoot 2-3 brace each on the day given all the money/cost/ time / effort which would be invested.  Broached it with local F&G at the time as they were tying to push "habitat enhancement". The reply was good idea but l no special permission for you sorry guys, limit is 1 Cock per day and and season was 9 days nine total. Last year the season was 3 months / ! bird per day on private land in the region, (F&G definition of private land is that "local forestry is public land even though PUBLIC do not have general free access at any time and have to apply and  PAY for a permit fee to the lease older to gain access") It was just not worth it. 
> 
> The idea has not died yet, We are still keen to do something, currently thinking that we might substitute the "Pheasant" for Guinea Fowl and hope they go "feral" enough to be an OK substitute. 
> Then hunt em with the dogs and have a good day out with no hassles, no bag limit (other than common sense), common sense not silly rules, and best of all no License required. If it worked out most likely  I might never buy a licence again and just make do with gees, guinea foul and clays


Guinea Fowl make for fabulous eating...

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## EeeBees

> Agree with Bonecrusher. You can't fix a problem until you know the cause. Research is needed - and not just a token attempt. F&G need to get serious in their attempt to find out why numbers are depleting.
> The banning of lead shot is just a crock. Heaps more ducks die from predators (hawks, shags, pukeko, stoats etc). Maybe we should ban them. Although I have modified the way I shoot to enable the birds to get closer now that we use steel, I see heaps more wounded ducks from all the surrounding possies. Neil Hayes believes that wounding has gone from 7% with lead, to 50% with steel. While I don't know the accuracy of that statement, just my own observations would back that up.
> As Bonecrusher put it:
> Research
> Habitat
> Breeding program
> F&G council unity


Lentil, I have asked and asked, as a result of the expenditure of monies gathered, what constituted 'research'...have never had a reply that was meaningful, deliberate, informative and quite frankly, sincere...I believe that just about every able bodied bird shooter in this country would go out of their way to help in anyway with whatever 'research' was needed to satisfy our queries.

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## EeeBees

Yes, Bill Spooner, Hawkes Bay, would roll in his grave if he knew how things are now!

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## Druid

F&G seem to be dithering and their staff have vested interests in that big money earner Mr Trout . 

I believe the best thing for F&G to do would be to sponsor an independant University graduate who wants a good subject for a doctorial thesis , we would get brains , hard work and published results at the end of it , The researcher would need to be given a ranger warrent , to enable land access etc and be given free and open access to the historical records compiled by Tom Canthesis et all, He/she would need to be able to catch , blood sample , tag and maybe even do necropsies , outside the bird season , without fear of prosecution , etc . And above all be removed from the political bull and influence that seems to infest F&G societies

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## gsp follower

> Yes, Bill Spooner, Hawkes Bay, would roll in his grave if he knew how things are now!


WAS HE THE GUY THAT RAN THE PHEASANT RELEASE  and breeding pozzie on the backroad betweeen hastings and napier??

aparently f&^g have kicked off a major research effort ??im awaiting details from the national office  :Thumbsup:

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## 7mmsaum

> WAS HE THE GUY THAT RAN THE PHEASANT RELEASE  and breeding pozzie on the backroad betweeen hastings and napier??
> 
> aparently f&^g have kicked off a major research effort ??im awaiting details from the national office


Yes thats him, then Roly Bagshaw helped after Bill retired.

I did 5yrs as honorary F&G ranger with Bill and 3 with Roly.

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## gsp follower

this will make you laugh ngai tahu,s only objection to the goose culls here last year was that eels and flounder might ingest the lead  shot used  :Wtfsmilie: 

not a word was said about the waterfowl native or otherwise and  waders species :Pissed Off:

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## EeeBees

Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeee  eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



Talking to a veteran duck campaigner this morning and asked his thoughts on the matter...he says that mallards and spoonies should be off the HB list and teal back on for a season!!

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## gsp follower

you ever get out patangata /elsthorpe way i was on mangatapiri station out there1977/78
man that was duck heaven with all the dams.

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## Kiwi-Hunter

:Pissed Off: the numbers are still not increasing then that points to something other than lead shot being the issue and research needed to find out what are the real issues. Fish and game???
Stop giving out off season permits if you are so worried  :Thumbsup: 
The real decline is shooting into the breed time and all season with 5, 6,7,8,10,shot Auto's.
The big one is Habitat disappearing with more disturbance in breeding area's and grain feed area's are a lot smaller thats true.

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## Wirehunt

There isn't many people around that would do a six for six on ducks, never mind a 10 for 10!

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## 30calterry

we need to get duck shooters to have the same mind set as fisherman.when was the last time u heard a fisher brag about geting more than there limit or taking undersize fish?in fact most i fish with impose there own limits size and amount . has probably been the result of heavy policing and people lossing cars/boats but it has worked . maybe fish and game should use there fish officer resources to police duckshooting insteed of the local game officer who does what he can.

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## kotuku

> we need to get duck shooters to have the same mind set as fisherman.when was the last time u heard a fisher brag about geting more than there limit or taking undersize fish?in fact most i fish with impose there own limits size and amount . has probably been the result of heavy policing and people lossing cars/boats but it has worked . maybe fish and game should use there fish officer resources to police duckshooting insteed of the local game officer who does what he can.


  I like your style of thought squire and it certainly does have more than a whiff of good old commonsense about it. furthermore why dont F&G periodically issue license holders a wee questionare on the details of ducks etc in their shooting areas. If this was done province wide and returns collated it may provide insight into the birds lifestyles and habits ,populations etc. take that to a national level and maybe we could end up with some information on why the birds are behaving like they are.

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## Wirehunt

They ring now kotuku for that information, how many they ring I don't know.

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## gsp follower

> I have not seen the reference you refer to in the H&F catalogue.  However, Fish and Game has a national mallard duck research programme that is still in its methodology development stage and is set to run for the next 2-3 years.  This will include GPS telemetry (transmitter tracking), defining mallard habitat characteristics for recruitment, standardising monitoring techniques of population change, modelling harvest regulation effectiveness and a citizen science project that will involve members of the public reporting on local brood numbers and survival rates.


 a glimmer of hope from the national councill :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## gadgetman

> They ring now kotuku for that information, how many they ring I don't know.


I've been phoned every season I've had a license during the duck season, and just after the end of it.

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## Kiwi-Hunter

six for six on ducks, never mind a 10 for 10! Well I have seen it, but they still have to be able to shoot. :Grin: 
If there are, say, three in a mai mai with autos not many that leaves the pond. Say they are 5 shot auto. 
There's 15 chances. Old days, just 6 shots to look at it another way.
The kills are up and the numbers down. This has been the trend for a good number of years.
Eastern Otago doesn't grow the grain it did when I was a boy in the early sixties. 
Even in those days there was the odd unpinned auto you could hear at first light.
Getting all happy just thinking about it.
By the way, a lot of the ponds I know have four or more shooters. Talk about rape and pillage. :Wtfsmilie: 
I shoot most of the season and some of the younger people I have met when out jump shooting are always looking for new places to shoot.
Dairy hate the ducks in there water troughs but a lot don't shoot and have put the digger in and put ponds back into land. The activity around these farms
has stuffed up some good hunting ponds and creeks.F&G if they can't see this??? They don't need to spend to look at decline.Habitat Protection & Management money mostly goes to the North Island Look :Have A Nice Day: http://www.fishandgame.org.nz/sites/...ort%202012.pdf See where your money goes. Try and go past what's in the bank and wages, The big money is on FISH.

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## EeeBees

> we need to get duck shooters to have the same mind set as fisherman.when was the last time u heard a fisher brag about geting more than there limit or taking undersize fish?in fact most i fish with impose there own limits size and amount . has probably been the result of heavy policing and people lossing cars/boats but it has worked . maybe fish and game should use there fish officer resources to police duckshooting insteed of the local game officer who does what he can.


30calterry, all due respect to you, I do not see why duckshooters SHOULD HAVE to be policed in this manner...most have the nouse to understand that every mummy and daddy duck you take out of the equation is less ducklings...good old Mother Commonsense as far as I can see.

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## Toby

> Commonsense


Whats that word?  :Grin:

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## 7mmsaum

> Whats that word?


Its not that common Toby

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## 30calterry

> 30calterry, all due respect to you, I do not see why duckshooters SHOULD HAVE to be policed in this manner...most have the nouse to understand that every mummy and daddy duck you take out of the equation is less ducklings...good old Mother Commonsense as far as I can see.


so you hav neva heard old duck shooters on established ponds say they get 80/100 opening morning ,i have and when challenged on it they think its their right and others r just bad shooters or we dont know what we are doing or we r jealous ! all due respect eb but if we walk around with our heads in the clouds sayn it doesnt happen and do nothing then thats what we will have!

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## Wirehunt

Pull up here 30c and ask what the limits are in some places.  Then realize they can have a limit by 9 and away home leaving all the rest.

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## 30calterry

> Pull up here 30c and ask what the limits are in some places.  Then realize they can have a limit by 9 and away home leaving all the rest.


so you hav neva heard a duck shooter say they hav shot over their limit?

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## Wirehunt

Done it myself.

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## Rushy

> Whats that word?


Not surprised that someone as young as you hasn't heard of common sense Toby.  Unfortunately it died several years ago.  Here is the obituary for it

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. 

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, why life isn't always fair, and how, on occasion, maybe it was my fault. 

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children are in charge) . 

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. 

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student; but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. 

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault. 

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. 

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know my Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm a Victim

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## 30calterry

> Done it myself.


and whats two reasons u wouldnt take an undersize snapper hm and if u do what is the main thought u have as u pull off the boat ramp in your or your mates car /boat apart from where the chilly bin im out of beer shit its in the boat

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## Happy

Yep. A wise person someplace woke up to the the idea that not only our offshore fisheries were getting done over (and still are I m sure) but
 also that the shorelines and just offshore were suffering a battering by folks just taking too many fish.
 When living in Wellington we spent every fine weekend ( 2 to 3 a year sometimes he he ) on the boat and always saw a certain type of person filling sacks with as many shellfish as they could 
 (This 20+ years ago around Port Rd area) Well now they wouldnt get away with it. People do not fish like that unless they are prepared to loose their boats,cars etc.
We ve been pulled up at Cooks Beach and checked at 6.30 am returning after an all nighter at the Mercs and not just once.
Go to the Thames Mussel barges to fish you get stopped at the ramp 9 out of 10 times now.
Its had education and resources thrown at it and also good publised cases where fines and confiscations have been imposed.

They have put a lot of effort into it. Where do you get handed decals for your Mai Mai with bird identifcation, numbers allowed etc like the one you see on most boats freely issued at the
ramps as part of the education process? Our fishing club gives them away at the monthly comp most years plus sizes are slightly higher there than the legal ones to weigh in.

Hard to police duck shooters for sure but IMO its time. Nail the guys taking too many. Educate everyone as to why. Its so the next generation have a sport left to engage in.
I too hear the stories of 100 to 300 between 2 to 3 shooters. In reality a 22 year old said to me at a motocross event two weeks ago they have their 1st ton of maise round the pond
Got the 2nd one ready to go. Should get 200 + plus on opening morning between two of them. Very accomplished shooters he scores 96 out of 100 clay shooting and competes from time to time.
I simply said thats wrong how long do you think you re gonna be albe to do that for ? and he spat the dummy. Wanted a fight and got really loud. His missus had to take him away as she knew he was on the road
to nowhere with me. Buts thats the attuitude. Catch those foccers.Take their guns. Take their vehicles Ban them from Duck Shooting for a year or two.Take their fire arms licences.
They are unfit to have a license  as they are breaking the law with it.

A rant but things need to change with all the enviromental changes we cant change this is one thing we could if some resource was thrown at it.    :Thumbsup:

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## Barefoot

Rushy you forgot Commonsenses other stepbrother - I want it now. '
You know him when you see him, he's the one standing hanging round the WINZ office because he is too important to actually work.

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## Wirehunt

Can't feed fish and give them the right environment, we look after the ducks a lot in our area.  FAR more than f&g ever has, and this also goes for a lot of other people I know.  All f&g does is put their hands into our pockets.

In shore fishing, now that is a curly one.  But then I've been on the bridge of a sealords boat when they were bitching about have trouble picking up salmon with the electronics. All highly illegal....  What more inshore fish?  Tell them to fuck off.

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## Kiwikiwi

Yep you are on the money there HAPPY with the guys that shoot 100 to 200 bird on opening weekend.I suppose they chuck them in the offal bin afterwards cause one can not eat that many birds.Its the old story that FG are not on the game.Im sure they can track these guys down as there addresses are on there licences but yet again the probably do'nt have one.You just have to watch some of it on youtube of the slaughter

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## Lentil

> As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer? I won't be replying in here, just viewing for the hope of some new found knowledge


Research. Info is needed before decisions can be made. Transmitters on ducks? (ie like Sika research) I believe Eastern F&G have started this. 
Hunter participation. *Involve hunters more*. Hunters with a "buy-in" will give a lot more info. As others have said, fisheries have a much better participation by law abiding fishermen. They report poaching etc. *Bring back the hunters bag diaries*. Although you will get some useful info, I suspect the bigger benefit will be a sense of belonging to a F&G area. Like most bosses know, employees who are involved in the business and decision making (or at least consulted) are much more likely to be more productive and happy. I know most of us are apathetic, but you owe it to the fish and game to get our opinions etc. Everybody has an opinion/suggestion. 
Ranging. Don't send rangers to the balloted areas (like where I shoot), unless you hear of over harvesting (you should know which places shoot best). I get checked every year, and it annoys me to think we are just easy targets, and no fear of conflict. Check the big private ponds etc - thats where the over harvesting occurs. Get tough on these bastards.
Finally, thanks for trying something ie.this thread. We need more councillors who will be prepared to get a blast from the public. At least we care enough to reply to you, and obviously you take your role seriously.

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## R93

> Research. Info is needed before decisions can be made. Transmitters on ducks? (ie like Sika research) I believe Eastern F&G have started this. 
> Hunter participation. *Involve hunters more*. Hunters with a "buy-in" will give a lot more info. As others have said, fisheries have a much better participation by law abiding fishermen. They report poaching etc. *Bring back the hunters bag diaries*. Although you will get some useful info, I suspect the bigger benefit will be a sense of belonging to a F&G area. Like most bosses know, employees who are involved in the business and decision making (or at least consulted) are much more likely to be more productive and happy. I know most of us are apathetic, but you owe it to the fish and game to get our opinions etc. Everybody has an opinion/suggestion. 
> Ranging. Don't send rangers to the balloted areas (like where I shoot), unless you hear of over harvesting (you should know which places shoot best). I get checked every year, and it annoys me to think we are just easy targets, and no fear of conflict. Check the big private ponds etc - thats where the over harvesting occurs. Get tough on these bastards.
> Finally, thanks for trying something ie.this thread. We need more councillors who will be prepared to get a blast from the public. At least we care enough to reply to you, and obviously you take your role seriously.


+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. So please forgive my sausage fingers!!!

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## Toby

I've never seen a ranger.

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## Happy

> I've never seen a ranger.


+ 1 and obviously neither have the dudes shooting 2 to 3 hundy opening weekend !!

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## Toby

My real dad has been shooting 30yrs he said hes never seen a ranger either.

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## Happy

> My real dad has been shooting 30yrs he said hes never seen a ranger either.


But I ve seen and been spoken to by the Fish pigs heaps of times scuse my description whatever they are called
They have always been polite and no they have never had probs with our catches

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## Toby

I have been seen by doc rangers once while white baiting. They suck ass coming up on their boat interrupting me but I like that they were out checking people on the river. More of this should be happening in our small town.

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## EeeBees

I would like to know just what the cowboys do with 100 or 200 ducks...I sure hope they show enough respect to the birds to eat them...

edited to add...and I suppose these very people would be the first to wah wah about DOC doing one of their search and destroy in choppers on the deer or anything else on four feet lurking in the wilds...

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## Wirehunt

> I've never seen a ranger.


We see them every other year or so.  Gotta make sure they have ripped the money out of our pockets.

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## Wirehunt

> edited to add...and I suppose these very people would be the first to wah wah about DOC doing one of their search and destroy in choppers on the deer or anything else on four feet lurking in the wilds...


Yes well. they are fuckwits, or at least their bosses are.  But rather see that than the green rain they much prefer......

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## scottrods

> Waterways are heavily polluted around here. Where I used to swim regularly 10 years ago, I now won't take the dog. Stinks too much on the return trip. 
> 
> The lead thing was undoubtedly a beat up, there are probably only a couple of applicable locations in NZ. What access do birds have to lead that falls in the Waitaki? None. It's a fast flowing, braided river system. What it does exposé shooters to is a lot of tempting birds at questionable ranges. As above, I have watched a tremendous amount of wounding with steel, and these birds if they glide out and get caught in the current are beyond any dogs ability to recover them. 
> 
> As for heavy metals,since when did we worry about that in NZ? Superphosphate contains cadmium, and cadmium makes lead look like something you would spread on your cereal. Your average dairy farm could no longer be zoned residential, the heavy metals content of the soil (cadmium) would exceed the acceptable cut offs. In time, it will exceed the cut offs for agricultural production, some properties may have already.
> 
> I would imagine the destruction of habitat is the major issue. Again, look at the Waitaki. The river used to be a large main channel which changed constantly, then a few hundred meters either side with stable backwaters in amongst the vegetation. These did not change year to year and they were breeding areas for who knows how many ducks and trout. They are mostly gone now. They have all been converted to dairy. There is a narrow sprayed out strip for the main stream, then dairy right up to the edge. What few backwaters that remain are fouled. Just disgusting. Choked with stinking mud and weed. Much of that land that was converted to dairy, is DOC administered land.



A lot of work going on in the USA, UK and Europe about this. UK for example has really recognised that super-phosphates and intensive farming has drained wetlands, changed water ph and general habitat loss. Reading the posts people are saying this has gone nuts here over the last 10-20yrs. I suppose that is correlated to population expansion, industrial scale dairy farming, increase in immigration and tourism which in turn results in the same issues the UK has suffered from. In UK they are breeding and releasing ducks, establishing private ponds, reflooding dams and really big into game management as a result.

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## gsp follower

the biggest indictment on this current governments attitude to pollution is the 400 million irrigation fun looking to double farming out puts . compared to the 40 million to clean up the mess of intensive farming and town and other business waste.over the whole country.??20 million of that was only put up this week for our 4 worst polluted areas waituna te waihora kaipara and i just forget the other. :Pissed Off:

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## MassiveAttack

I would argue that the USA treats it's land worse.  We may not like irrigated dairy farming but at least the cows are outside eating grass.  In the states they are locked up in intensive feeding units fed corn and antibiotics.  You can just imagine the effluent stream coming out of one of those places and the insecticides they dump on the farms in order to grow the corn in the first place.  NZ is better although I would agree it's still not good.

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## gsp follower

> I would argue that the USA treats it's land worse.  We may not like irrigated dairy farming but at least the cows are outside eating grass.  In the states they are locked up in intensive feeding units fed corn and antibiotics.  You can just imagine the effluent stream coming out of one of those places and the insecticides they dump on the farms in order to grow the corn in the first place.  NZ is better although I would agree it's still not good.


you dont have  to imagine massive just take a look at wakanui east of ashburton lovely idealic spot apart from the crap bieng pumped into the sea :XD: 
 a feedlot perhaps not on a yank scale but gettin there :36 1 5:

----------


## Lentil

> As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer? I won't be replying in here, just viewing for the hope of some new found knowledge


Research. Info is needed before decisions can be made. Transmitters on ducks? (ie like Sika research) I believe Eastern F&G have started this. 
Hunter participation. *Involve hunters more*. Hunters with a "buy-in" will give a lot more info. As others have said, fisheries have a much better participation by law abiding fishermen. They report poaching etc. *Bring back the hunters bag diaries*. Although you will get some useful info, I suspect the bigger benefit will be a sense of belonging to a F&G area. Like most bosses know, employees who are involved in the business and decision making (or at least consulted) are much more likely to be more productive and happy. I know most of us are apathetic, but you owe it to the fish and game to get our opinions etc. Everybody has an opinion/suggestion. 
Ranging. Don't send rangers to the balloted areas (like where I shoot), unless you hear of over harvesting (you should know which places shoot best). I get checked every year, and it annoys me to think we are just easy targets, and no fear of conflict. Check the big private ponds etc - thats where the over harvesting occurs. Get tough on these bastards.
Finally, thanks for trying something ie.this thread. We need more councillors who will be prepared to get a blast from the public. At least we care enough to reply to you, and obviously you take your role seriously.

----------


## R93

> Research. Info is needed before decisions can be made. Transmitters on ducks? (ie like Sika research) I believe Eastern F&G have started this. 
> Hunter participation. *Involve hunters more*. Hunters with a "buy-in" will give a lot more info. As others have said, fisheries have a much better participation by law abiding fishermen. They report poaching etc. *Bring back the hunters bag diaries*. Although you will get some useful info, I suspect the bigger benefit will be a sense of belonging to a F&G area. Like most bosses know, employees who are involved in the business and decision making (or at least consulted) are much more likely to be more productive and happy. I know most of us are apathetic, but you owe it to the fish and game to get our opinions etc. Everybody has an opinion/suggestion. 
> Ranging. Don't send rangers to the balloted areas (like where I shoot), unless you hear of over harvesting (you should know which places shoot best). I get checked every year, and it annoys me to think we are just easy targets, and no fear of conflict. Check the big private ponds etc - thats where the over harvesting occurs. Get tough on these bastards.
> Finally, thanks for trying something ie.this thread. We need more councillors who will be prepared to get a blast from the public. At least we care enough to reply to you, and obviously you take your role seriously.


+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. So please forgive my sausage fingers!!!

----------


## Toby

I've never seen a ranger.

----------


## Happy

> I've never seen a ranger.


+ 1 and obviously neither have the dudes shooting 2 to 3 hundy opening weekend !!

----------


## Toby

My real dad has been shooting 30yrs he said hes never seen a ranger either.

----------


## Happy

> My real dad has been shooting 30yrs he said hes never seen a ranger either.


But I ve seen and been spoken to by the Fish pigs heaps of times scuse my description whatever they are called
They have always been polite and no they have never had probs with our catches

----------


## Toby

I have been seen by doc rangers once while white baiting. They suck ass coming up on their boat interrupting me but I like that they were out checking people on the river. More of this should be happening in our small town.

----------


## EeeBees

I would like to know just what the cowboys do with 100 or 200 ducks...I sure hope they show enough respect to the birds to eat them...

edited to add...and I suppose these very people would be the first to wah wah about DOC doing one of their search and destroy in choppers on the deer or anything else on four feet lurking in the wilds...

----------


## Wirehunt

> I've never seen a ranger.


We see them every other year or so.  Gotta make sure they have ripped the money out of our pockets.

----------


## Wirehunt

> edited to add...and I suppose these very people would be the first to wah wah about DOC doing one of their search and destroy in choppers on the deer or anything else on four feet lurking in the wilds...


Yes well. they are fuckwits, or at least their bosses are.  But rather see that than the green rain they much prefer......

----------


## scottrods

> Waterways are heavily polluted around here. Where I used to swim regularly 10 years ago, I now won't take the dog. Stinks too much on the return trip. 
> 
> The lead thing was undoubtedly a beat up, there are probably only a couple of applicable locations in NZ. What access do birds have to lead that falls in the Waitaki? None. It's a fast flowing, braided river system. What it does exposé shooters to is a lot of tempting birds at questionable ranges. As above, I have watched a tremendous amount of wounding with steel, and these birds if they glide out and get caught in the current are beyond any dogs ability to recover them. 
> 
> As for heavy metals,since when did we worry about that in NZ? Superphosphate contains cadmium, and cadmium makes lead look like something you would spread on your cereal. Your average dairy farm could no longer be zoned residential, the heavy metals content of the soil (cadmium) would exceed the acceptable cut offs. In time, it will exceed the cut offs for agricultural production, some properties may have already.
> 
> I would imagine the destruction of habitat is the major issue. Again, look at the Waitaki. The river used to be a large main channel which changed constantly, then a few hundred meters either side with stable backwaters in amongst the vegetation. These did not change year to year and they were breeding areas for who knows how many ducks and trout. They are mostly gone now. They have all been converted to dairy. There is a narrow sprayed out strip for the main stream, then dairy right up to the edge. What few backwaters that remain are fouled. Just disgusting. Choked with stinking mud and weed. Much of that land that was converted to dairy, is DOC administered land.



A lot of work going on in the USA, UK and Europe about this. UK for example has really recognised that super-phosphates and intensive farming has drained wetlands, changed water ph and general habitat loss. Reading the posts people are saying this has gone nuts here over the last 10-20yrs. I suppose that is correlated to population expansion, industrial scale dairy farming, increase in immigration and tourism which in turn results in the same issues the UK has suffered from. In UK they are breeding and releasing ducks, establishing private ponds, reflooding dams and really big into game management as a result.

----------


## gsp follower

the biggest indictment on this current governments attitude to pollution is the 400 million irrigation fun looking to double farming out puts . compared to the 40 million to clean up the mess of intensive farming and town and other business waste.over the whole country.??20 million of that was only put up this week for our 4 worst polluted areas waituna te waihora kaipara and i just forget the other. :Pissed Off:

----------


## MassiveAttack

I would argue that the USA treats it's land worse.  We may not like irrigated dairy farming but at least the cows are outside eating grass.  In the states they are locked up in intensive feeding units fed corn and antibiotics.  You can just imagine the effluent stream coming out of one of those places and the insecticides they dump on the farms in order to grow the corn in the first place.  NZ is better although I would agree it's still not good.

----------


## gsp follower

> I would argue that the USA treats it's land worse.  We may not like irrigated dairy farming but at least the cows are outside eating grass.  In the states they are locked up in intensive feeding units fed corn and antibiotics.  You can just imagine the effluent stream coming out of one of those places and the insecticides they dump on the farms in order to grow the corn in the first place.  NZ is better although I would agree it's still not good.


you dont have  to imagine massive just take a look at wakanui east of ashburton lovely idealic spot apart from the crap bieng pumped into the sea :XD: 
 a feedlot perhaps not on a yank scale but gettin there :36 1 5:

----------

