# Firearms and Shooting > Archery >  Bare shaft tuning

## silentscope

So iv been playing with my bow a PSE EXTREME for a few weeks and had it shooting mint groups out to 50 yards with field tips. Today I went and threw some broad heads on to see how they went and couldnt hit a barn door from 10 yards let alone 50. I heard about bare shaft tuning was a good way to but I'm a little confused at how it actually works iv got my group at 10y with my field tips and bare shafts and they both completely point in the opposite direction. 

So my question is what do I adjust??

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## silentscope



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## silentscope

When I adjust my biscuit to try get the the bare shafts on the mark my fletcher arrows fly further off the mark. I cant seem to get them to tighten or at least hit the target the same.

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## csmiffy

yeah.. well from the title, the subject matter is way different from what I thought it would be.
I'm going now

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## Ground Control

Your centershot and or arrow spine is way off I suspect.
Have you paper tuned your arrows ?

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## silentscope

Iv had no issues with centre shot when using field tips but everything went pear shaped once I started with broad heads and bare shafts. I used the gold tip chart to get my arrow spine my bow is set at 70lbs and my draw is 29.5 which gave me an arrow spine of 300.

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## Ground Control

So have you paper tuned either fletched or bare ?

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## Cordite

I'll watch this thread with interest, haven't the foggiest what you's are talking about.  Maybe someone can explain.

Why is this guy shooting unfletched arrows?

Is he actually putting a hunting tip onto unfletched arrows...but that would be like shooting an arrow with the fletching up front.  

From the physics of air resistance, I'd expect a broadhead tip requires heavier fletching at the rear of the arrow.  For stability, the rear must have more drag than the front of the shaft, and a broadhead will have more drag (from greater surface area)  than a blunt tip.  I'm not bullshitting, I'm just explaining why I'm confused what's going on.

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## Muzzyfan

what broad head are you using?

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## Boar Freak

> I'll watch this thread with interest, haven't the foggiest what you's are talking about.  Maybe someone can explain.
> 
> Why is this guy shooting unfletched arrows?
> 
> Is he actually putting a hunting tip onto unfletched arrows...but that would be like shooting an arrow with the fletching up front.  
> 
> From the physics of air resistance, I'd expect a broadhead tip requires heavier fletching at the rear of the arrow.  For stability, the rear must have more drag than the front of the shaft, and a broadhead will have more drag (from greater surface area)  than a blunt tip.  I'm not bullshitting, I'm just explaining why I'm confused what's going on.


The idea is that you want to be able to get a bare shaft to fly as straight out of the bow as possible. It's optimal to apply that force as directly in line with the arrow as possible. This is maximizing the efficiency of the arrow allowing it to collect as much energy as possible from the limbs. Once you have achieved that then all the fletching does is correct minor errors in the release, grip and flinches. @Cordite

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## Boar Freak

> Iv had no issues with centre shot when using field tips but everything went pear shaped once I started with broad heads and bare shafts. I used the gold tip chart to get my arrow spine my bow is set at 70lbs and my draw is 29.5 which gave me an arrow spine of 300.


Am with Ground Control , paper tuning will show you what your arrows doing between the bow and target.

Here is a good article explaining the process and how to adjust:
https://www.archery360.com/2019/07/1...ve-or-longbow/

Also spin test your arrows with BH if you haven't done it yet @silentscope

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## silentscope

Spent the morning flinging arrows at paper to see where they are at. I try make adjustments with my biscuit to get this better but nothing changes on the paper. Is this pointing towards arrow spine being wrong?

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## silentscope

So after a but more mucking around inswitched to the bare shafts again. Some major adjustments on my biscuit  and my d loop I almost have perfect bullet holes. Now I need the rain to stop so I can go try a bit further then 5 yards.

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## Friwi

I have been watching a lot videos lately on the subject.
This guy explains it for traditional bows.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HVs6PT331Io

I ll look for the other video I saw for compound bows

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## Friwi

This guys is very good as well in his explanations
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=niEMY5rTtR4

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## silentscope

So the plot thickens. After getting what I thought was a perfect arrow flight on paper turns out to be a big unaligned mess when I took it outside to test. My arrow pokes way out to one side. And my sights had to be set even further out to that side to get the arrow to hit the target at 10 yards. Any more ideas?

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## Ground Control

OK ......
I’m no expert, but that setup is completely wrong .
My advice if you want it is this .

Take your sight off the bow , adjust your rest so that the center of the arrow is 13/16 off the riser .
Set your nock height at 90 degrees , you can play with the height as things progress, but start at 90 .
Then the real mission starts , because your shooting form now comes into play .
If you cant consistently shoot with the correct form you will chase your tail .
You need to blank bail shoot for a while then try paper tuning.

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## silentscope

> OK ......
> I’m no expert, but that setup is completely wrong .
> My advice if you want it is this .
> 
> Take your sight off the bow , adjust your rest so that the center of the arrow is 13/16 off the riser .
> Set your nock height at 90 degrees , you can play with the height as things progress, but start at 90 .
> Then the real mission starts , because your shooting form now comes into play .
> If you cant consistently shoot with the correct form you will chase your tail .
> You need to blank bail shoot for a while then try paper tuning.


OK, so before i started the whole paper tune thing, i set the bow up out of the box the way you've just said to do, and shot for a couple weeks every day with it like that. it shot well with normal arrows and field tips, tight groups almost touching most of the time. always start at 10, then 20, then 30, then 40, then 50 each time making sure i have good form, correct grip, follow through etc till i get tired and can feel it getting sloppy so i stop for the day. its just since paper tuning and the bow has gone way out on the piss like that, it will shoot a bullet hole with a bare shaft and dead center with a fletched at about 3 yards i measured just now.
im having fun learning all this so im not stressing about it going all haywire its just a bit confusing when videos etc say "this is all you need to do to tune" but in saying that ill go back to the start again and see how i go.

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## Bol Tackshin

I found some broadheads tended to fly more true,  while others simply wouldn't group for love or money.  Have you tried more than one type? What are you using?

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## silentscope

> I found some broadheads tended to fly more true,  while others simply wouldn't group for love or money.  Have you tried more than one type? What are you using?


iv got some interlock broadheads, it sounds like iv got a few more issues i need to iron out before i can blame the heads haha.

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## Bol Tackshin

Fair enough...  Tuning a compound to shoot well is a cross between science and art... Hang in there!

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## Redaxler

Just my two cents, you could be torquing the bow or the bow is out of tune, if you just gripped and ripped it out if the box the timing might be out. Fixed blade broad heads are bitch to getting shooting the same as a field point, the easiest I have found are slick tricks. Where are you situated? If you are close to Tauranga I will be able to help you figure stuff out after we have been released from our cages. 


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## stug

This article might help with paper tuning
https://www.lancasterarchery.com/blog/paper-tuning-101/

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## Stocky

Did a shop set it up for you? Theres quite a bit that should really be confirmed first before you even start trying to tune using the rest watch the latest video of John Dudley of Nock On Archery seting up Joe Rogans new bow. It will give you an idea of whats required to be done out of the box. Ideally the rest should only correct minor issues.

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## silentscope

> Did a shop set it up for you? Theres quite a bit that should really be confirmed first before you even start trying to tune using the rest watch the latest video of John Dudley of Nock On Archery seting up Joe Rogans new bow. It will give you an idea of whats required to be done out of the box. Ideally the rest should only correct minor issues.


No I bought it online so it arrived factory setup. I'll have a look for that video aswell. The more I look into it the more other stuff like cam timing (even though its single cam) and cam lean etc that could be causing some of the problem. All very interesting

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## Boar Freak

What is the length of your arrows? Weight of FP? Weight of BH? @silentscope

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## Redaxler

> No I bought it online so it arrived factory setup. I'll have a look for that video aswell. The more I look into it the more other stuff like cam timing (even though its single cam) and cam lean etc that could be causing some of the problem. All very interesting


Morning, yes, that could be some of your problem. Has the draw length been set for you? As you shoot a new bow the strings stretch a bit so the timing tends to bugger out a bit. It can all be very confusing. 


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## silentscope

> What is the length of your arrows? Weight of FP? Weight of BH? @silentscope


I had them made to 29.5 inch, which is what my draw length was measured up as a couple years ago when I was looking at getting a bow. Heads are both 100 grain.

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## Stocky

> No I bought it online so it arrived factory setup. I'll have a look for that video aswell. The more I look into it the more other stuff like cam timing (even though its single cam) and cam lean etc that could be causing some of the problem. All very interesting


Um factory setup isn't really a thing unless you mean a store like advanced archery set it up then shipped it to you. Did the rest and sight etc come fitted? Is there a peep fitted?

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## silentscope

> Um factory setup isn't really a thing unless you mean a store like advanced archery set it up then shipped it to you. Did the rest and sight etc come fitted? Is there a peep fitted?


It come with everything attached out of the box. I set my peep and my draw length and centered my rest and went from there.

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## silentscope

Do these limbs look to be on an angle from the riser or is that normal...

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## Boar Freak

> Attachment 136305
> Do these limbs look to be on an angle from the riser or is that normal...


If you took that picture exactly from above than yes that that looks a bit wonky.

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## Bol Tackshin

For when this is COVID business is all over,  I'd recommend this book.Tuning your compound bow - by Larry Wise. 
https://larrywise.com/product/tuning...ow4th-edition/

 When I still owned a bow it was a real treasure, but I lent it to someone a few years back and it never came back to me.

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## silentscope

> If you took that picture exactly from above than yes that that looks a bit wonky.


Is that worth worrying about?

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## Stocky

> Is that worth worrying about?


I'd be careful mate. It seems your a bit out of your depth. It's hard to tel from photos but if it is leaning your more likely to derail your bow and have a big fuck up.  It looks like you brought a RTS (ready to shoot) kit. Which is a misnomer. In that they mean it's got all the bits to shoot but is most definitely not tuned. The cams can be moved with bushings if it's similar to my pse which may mean they are out of wack leading to the lean if there is lean (hard to tell from the photos). I'd go to see Paddy Long in Chch after lockdown. Www.bowhunt.co.nz is his website I think.

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## silentscope

> I'd be careful mate. It seems your a bit out of your depth. It's hard to tel from photos but if it is leaning your more likely to derail your bow and have a big fuck up.  It looks like you brought a RTS (ready to shoot) kit. Which is a misnomer. In that they mean it's got all the bits to shoot but is most definitely not tuned. The cams can be moved with bushings if it's similar to my pse which may mean they are out of wack leading to the lean if there is lean (hard to tell from the photos). I'd go to see Paddy Long in Chch after lockdown. Www.bowhunt.co.nz is his website I think.


I'm not messing with any of that stuff more just curious of whats normal

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## Stocky

> I'm not messing with any of that stuff more just curious of whats normal


What I mean is that to even it out if its a tuning issue you need to usually either swap shims to move cams left or right or add twists to one side on the cable to even up the lean. Both of which require a bow press. What's normal is for the cams limbs and limbs to be parralel with the string. It's not normal to have things not all straight or very close to straight. Derailments are genuinely dodgy and the violence of them often projects the peeps out of the string and has blinded people before.

Shoot it if you like but with the limited info you've provided I'm not going to say it's safe or normal. The irratic bare shaft is telling you something isn't right.

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## Boar Freak

I wouldn't shoot it if it's really that much out line. But there is a fairly easy 4 step fix 1. take bow back to place of purchase 2. ask for refund 3. buy Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtech 4. take new bow home and enjoy shooting it.

 :Grin:  Sorry mate couldn't help it.

Get in touch with shop and ask them to sort it out.

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## Tak3o

Hi there,
I don't shoot compounds so I can't help with the how corrections.
What I can tell you is the process to bare shaft tune to get to broadhead.

You first shoot 3 fletched arrows and 3 bareshaft from a close distance, like 3 meters to start with, angles and groups in between the 2 will tell you what to change.
Because you shoot a compound, if you are decent you are going to destroy your arrows, so shoot 3 different points on the target, one bare and one fletched arrow each.

For trad bows, we change the weight of heads and lengh of the arrow to play with the dynamic stiffness of the arrow. (basically, if you had some weight a front its more bendy, if you shorten the arrow its less, and vis and versa). On a compound, you can "cheat" by moving the alignment of the arrow. 
The theory behind it is that fletching corrects imperfections, so you compare fletched (corrected) against bareshaft;
You can correct as per the image bellow 

Correct until your bareshafts and arrows group the same, then go back a bit till you have a good group at 20meters (bareshafts won't fly with as a good ballistic, at some point the will shoot lower). When your group match both your fletched and bare should point in the same direction.
You then repeat the same process with Fletched arrows with BH and FP, the theory is a broadhead will work as a wing as well and mess with the flight. so your corrected is the fletched non-broadheads.
Things to consider if you have erratic results and out of alignment results.
Some BH shoot like S*** favor multi-blades and or really high ends double blades. If you cant get it to work it might just be that your shafts are too stiff or too flexible. You can only correct so much by moving the biscuit.

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## Stocky

> I wouldn't shoot it if it's really that much out line. But there is a fairly easy 4 step fix 1. take bow back to place of purchase 2. ask for refund 3. buy Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtech 4. take new bow home and enjoy shooting it.
> 
>  Sorry mate couldn't help it.
> 
> Get in touch with shop and ask them to sort it out.


Bows are one of those things that require being setup by someone that knows there shit. Bows need tuning so broadheads fly the same as field points. This is an extra unless you kit yourself out to do it or have it done by the place you got the bow from. I'm guessing you ordered online which may make things difficult. Paddy longs a good guys hold be able to sort you out pretty quick.

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## silentscope

> I wouldn't shoot it if it's really that much out line. But there is a fairly easy 4 step fix 1. take bow back to place of purchase 2. ask for refund 3. buy Hoyt, Mathews or Bowtech 4. take new bow home and enjoy shooting it.
> 
>  Sorry mate couldn't help it.
> 
> Get in touch with shop and ask them to sort it out.


sad thing is a couple years back i had a hoyt but didnt get to use it before it had to be sold. this was just entry back into the bow hunting game. didnt realize it was going to be such a mess to set up. im willing to put some time into it tho its fun figuring it all out.

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## silentscope

> Bows are one of those things that require being setup by someone that knows there shit. Bows need tuning so broadheads fly the same as field points. This is an extra unless you kit yourself out to do it or have it done by the place you got the bow from. I'm guessing you ordered online which may make things difficult. Paddy longs a good guys hold be able to sort you out pretty quick.


yeah was an online order, ill have a chat to paddy and see what he can do for me. would like to be able to suss it myself but youre right about letting the expert do it.

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## Stocky

> yeah was an online order, ill have a chat to paddy and see what he can do for me. would like to be able to suss it myself but youre right about letting the expert do it.


Go in have him set it up with you so you can learn how and pick up a bow press (build one or buy a cable style) and you will be able to do it next time. Youtubes a bloody good place to learn how its how i learnt to do mine and am mostly kitted out now. Just waiting on a new bow to arrive as well will be the first I've not had any input from a store although ive setup my old bows for my partner and new buyers a couple times.

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## silentscope

Done some more playing over the last week or so. Major find was with my cam I have 2 settings which I had no idea about to turns out I didnt have the performance adjustment matched to my draw length. Once I put that right the bow felt completely different and shot alot better. I paper tuned and have managed 15 yard bare shaft and field tip  groups and I'm pretty bloody happy with it now.

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## MarkN

> 


Thank you for that image, it really helped me understand the idea behind bare shaft tuning.

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## silentscope

Just thought I'd add a bit more on some more findings incase anyone was interested. 
Iv changed my arrow spine from 300 to 340 and found that the bow shot ALOT tighter groups. Back on the paper I also added a couple of extra turns onto my yoke to straighten up the cam which has brought the entire bow into alignment alot better now I am shooting excellent groups right out to 50 yards with both field tips and broad heads. I'm glad I persevered and iv learnt alot about the mechanics to getting them shooting just right in the process and now I'm ready to hit the bush in search of that first blood.

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## Ground Control

> Just thought I'd add a bit more on some more findings incase anyone was interested. 
> Iv changed my arrow spine from 300 to 340 and found that the bow shot ALOT tighter groups. Back on the paper I also added a couple of extra turns onto my yoke to straighten up the cam which has brought the entire bow into alignment alot better now I am shooting excellent groups right out to 50 yards with both field tips and broad heads. I'm glad I persevered and iv learnt alot about the mechanics to getting them shooting just right in the process and now I'm ready to hit the bush in search of that first blood.



Are your Broadheads hitting the same point of aim as the field tips ?

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## silentscope

> Are your Broadheads hitting the same point of aim as the field tips ?


Yes both hitting same point of aim. They also both make bullet holes on paper at 20y I tested that today.

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## Bol Tackshin

Doh! I should have thought of that! Arrow spine is a fundamental and underspined arrows are a pretty obvious reason for weird groups.  What do the spine charts say is optimal for your setup?

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## Ground Control

> Yes both hitting same point of aim. They also both make bullet holes on paper at 20y I tested that today.


Your lucky  :Thumbsup: 

Often you need to do some adjustments to get the two different arrows groups to merge and center up .
Shooting Bows is great fun and it’s kind of overtaken my interest in firearms for now .
Post up some pics and reports of your progress, I’m sure I’m not the only one interested.

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## silentscope

> Doh! I should have thought of that! Arrow spine is a fundamental and underspined arrows are a pretty obvious reason for weird groups.  What do the spine charts say is optimal for your setup?


The gold tip chart said 300. And after trying those for a good few weeks I decided to try a 340 which has proven to be a far better choice.

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## silentscope

> Your lucky 
> 
> Often you need to do some adjustments to get the two different arrows groups to merge and center up .
> Shooting Bows is great fun and it’s kind of overtaken my interest in firearms for now .
> Post up some pics and reports of your progress, I’m sure I’m not the only one interested.


I'm definately taking my luck it as a win. Bow shooting is definately fun it takes alot of time and practice to master but I'm certainly going to enjoy the challenge of making it all work once I get some game in front of me.

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## Kiwininja

> Just thought I'd add a bit more on some more findings incase anyone was interested. 
> Iv changed my arrow spine from 300 to 340 and found that the bow shot ALOT tighter groups. Back on the paper I also added a couple of extra turns onto my yoke to straighten up the cam which has brought the entire bow into alignment alot better now I am shooting excellent groups right out to 50 yards with both field tips and broad heads. I'm glad I persevered and iv learnt alot about the mechanics to getting them shooting just right in the process and now I'm ready to hit the bush in search of that first blood.


Personally I dont waste my time with paper tuning ..you banging a bareshaft with field tip hitting square into a target at 20m then you know the bow is shooting bullets holes without the need for freeback from the paper test ..in order for one to shoot any Broadhead on point the bow needs to be super tuned ..messing with the rest will alleviate some issues for some broadheads but will be shit for others ..super tuned bow will have you hitting xs out to a 100 easy with any Broadhead ..

Have my own little archery workshop and tune me own bows make my own threads n arrows ..been out of the game for the last 3 years because of a renovation but slowly working my way back into it again so much to learn 


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## MarkN

> Personally I don’t waste my time with paper tuning ..you banging a bareshaft with field tip hitting square into a target at 20m then you know the bow is shooting bullets holes without the need for freeback from the paper test ..in order for one to shoot any Broadhead on point the bow needs to be super tuned ..messing with the rest will alleviate some issues for some broadheads but will be shit for others ..super tuned bow will have you hitting x’s out to a 100 easy with any Broadhead ..
> 
> Have my own little archery workshop and tune me own bows make my own threads n arrows ..been out of the game for the last 3 years because of a renovation but slowly working my way back into it again so much to learn    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As a newbie, I am looking forward to your posts, as you say, so much to learn. 

I've been confined, due to lock down and also waiting on an operation, so I've been learning as much as I can, about archery, from the interweb and the uTubery, but have yet to have hands on experience with my bow (NZPost compulsory delays).

I am making: a target out of layered banana boxes, a set of stabilisers out of aluminium tube, brass washers and well nuts, and I've assembled a little tool kit with all the things uTube reckons yer need  :Have A Nice Day: 

I reckon I'll be spending the winter, tuning and getting to know my bow, and practise, practise, practise.

I hope that new as I am, I'll be able to ask questions here on this board and get input from seasoned bowyers, such as your self.

 :Have A Nice Day:

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## Kiwininja

> As a newbie, I am looking forward to your posts, as you say, so much to learn. 
> 
> I've been confined, due to lock down and also waiting on an operation, so I've been learning as much as I can, about archery, from the interweb and the uTubery, but have yet to have hands on experience with my bow (NZPost compulsory delays).
> 
> I am making: a target out of layered banana boxes, a set of stabilisers out of aluminium tube, brass washers and well nuts, and I've assembled a little tool kit with all the things uTube reckons yer need 
> 
> I reckon I'll be spending the winter, tuning and getting to know my bow, and practise, practise, practise.
> 
> I hope that new as I am, I'll be able to ask questions here on this board and get input from seasoned bowyers, such as your self.


What kind of bow did you purchase? What part of the country do you call home? And yes unfortunately with archery one has to practice practice practice to get clean releases strengthen the shoulders n back ..
If you are a rifle shooting as well you will know if you need more power in your archery shot you have to be able to pull so much poundage where as a 308 bullet wether you strong or not as strong you still get 308 worth 


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## MarkN

> What kind of bow did you purchase? What part of the country do you call home?


I got something called a Kaimei Qin with arrows &c, I could only afford a cheapy, so I bought what I thought, was a similarly specced to, and what looked like,  a good one if it was from the USA.

Axle-to-Axle:30 5/8"
Bow Length:35.4"
Bow Riser Material: High strength aluminum alloy
Limb material: Reinforced composite
IBO speed: 329fps
Draw Length: 16-31.5"
Brace Weight:7.25"
Draw weight: 30-70lbs (adjustable)
Let Off: 80%
Arrows:30" carbon arrow SP500
Camo finish

I think I'll dial it back, to about 45~55 lbs until I get good at it, then make it stronger.

I'm in Auckland, but I get around the North Island a bit and often see turkeys and hares and even goats and pigs on the roadside verges in the dawn.

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## Kiwininja

> I got something called a Kaimei Qin with arrows &c, I could only afford a cheapy, so I bought what I thought, was a similarly specced to, and what looked like,  a good one if it was from the USA.
> 
> Axle-to-Axle:30 5/8"
> Bow Length:35.4"
> Bow Riser Material: High strength aluminum alloy
> Limb material: Reinforced composite
> IBO speed: 329fps
> Draw Length: 16-31.5"
> Brace Weight:7.25"
> ...


Ok I have always wondered about that bow on AliExpress only problem is them Chinese companies like to tell a few porkies in regards to the specs ..

first I doubt it will be a true 70lb ..now I would guess more 60lb and will not be throwing a 350 grain arrow 329 fps downrange ..more 280-290 even thats generous I feel ..the 500 spined arrow will be good from 35lbs - 50lbs need 400 for the rest of the poundage as a said wont be the full kit (70lbs) and the string will be cheaply made hence the rubber connected from peep to cable but that can be remedied by either purchasing new thread or tweaking the string by getting rid of the rubber and tying the peel properly, depending on how shit the string is .. 

I have a soft spot for the second class citizen budget bows including name brands as the dont have the tech that more expensive bows do but are still capable of shooting solid in accuracy and hitting power ..just need to give em the love they need to excel at a higher level 


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## MarkN

Thanks for your comments Kiwininja, once I get my bow, I can measure and we'll see what it actually is  :Have A Nice Day: 




> Ok I have always wondered about that bow on AliExpress


Re: AliExpress, over the years, I have never had a good experience with AliExpress, I don't use them, other than to round out my research, when I'm buying something. Back in the day I used to use ChinaBuye for tat, then BangGood and others, but I soon found out, that all the suppliers, big enough to have a business proper, were on eBay.com (not any of the regional variants, like .com.au) and that by using eBay, I was accessing the broadest range of prices. Often one item, will be offered by up to fifty different sellers, with varying prices and seller reputations and so on. So I get to play researcher for a while, before I buy, and then there's the google lever, to ascertain further information, before I send money, to a chap in a shed, in rural China, in a singlet, with a cigarette  hanging out of the corner of his mouth...  :Have A Nice Day:   But the seller of this bow, was quick as a greased pig, in my pre-sales conversation, helpful, regarding packaging and tracking and shipping etc, so I'd rate them kindly, in terms of pre-sales professionalism.




> only problem is them Chinese companies like to tell a few porkies in regards to the specs .. first I doubt it will be a true 70lb ..now I would guess more 60lb and will not be throwing a 350 grain arrow 329 fps downrange ..more 280-290 even that’s generous I feel ..the 500 spined arrow will be good from 35lbs - 50lbs need 400 for the rest of the poundage as a said wont be the full kit (70lbs)


This was my thought process when I started on the journey to get a bow. I need a $40 recurve to keep in the car, to ping the odd rabbit or turkey, wait minute, there're some nice looking bows in the $200 range and what about these compounds? they look complicated, whooaaa! then I saw the gadgets and the adjustimos, -  and I was hooked. 

So when I started, I was looking for a compound in the range of 45~55 lbs. Knowing as you do, that some Chinese advertising is just that, advertising, I thought I'd get one that was over-specced. Like getting a V12 Merc as a shopping cart. The 500 spine Arrows will be retired, as my skills and knowledge progress. I've got some 400 SP ones coming, for stage two and then in about a year when I really do know what I'm talking about, I'll get some exacto-spined arrows the range 300~350 that are correct for my bow, draw length, poundage etc.




> and the string will be cheaply made hence the rubber connected from peep to cable but that can be remedied by either purchasing new thread or tweaking the string by getting rid of the rubber and tying the peel properly, depending on how shit the string is ...


Yes, I've been in contact with a local who makes strings,  for the future, when I need a new one. Peep sight: I'm thinking I'll use the supplied one for now until I find out whether I need a "Clarifier" or "Verifier", both of which seem like expensive add-ons. There is part of me that does wonder if all the "must haves" are really necessary. I'd be interested in your opinion on the speed beads, discussed in a separate thread. https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ct-true-61010/




> I have a soft spot for the second class citizen budget bows including name brands as the don’t have the tech that more expensive bows do but are still capable of shooting solid in accuracy and hitting power ..just need to give em the love they need to excel at a higher level


This also figured in my mind, I'm not an Olympian and I'll never be running up and down the Southern Alps, or making expeditions into Fiordland for Moose, so I don't need the biggest and the best, but if it's cheap I could try it. Also I've been through the Chinese vs NZ made thing, with Kayaks and I've had two Chinese made ones, that are tip top in quality vs the NZ ones at $1,000 more for almost the same thing.

I'm likely to be hunting Rabbit, Hare, Turkey, small to medium Goat or Pig. At my age and health, A big Pig or even a moderate Deer would be too much for me to carry any distance and, I would never shoot an animal, for one leg or a trophy.

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## Kiwininja

I'm likely to be hunting Rabbit, Hare, Turkey, small to medium Goat or Pig. At my age and health, A big Pig or even a moderate Deer would be too much for me to carry any distance and, I would never shoot an animal, for one leg or a trophy.[/QUOTE]

Unless you smashing a 150 pounder pig and above 200 or 250 would be overkill ..you will be surprised what 400 are capable of ..you wont need that many grains per inch for the likes of goats, rabbits etc ..you 35lb will do the trick with a 500 spined arrow ..pigs you will get away with 400 ..depends on how much FOC and the entire weight of the arrow (525-600 grains) all up will be enough for the job to smack over a 150 pounder ..
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## MarkN

Thanks for that, yes, the arrow sizing charts, give me a range of draw weight options, for the 500 spine arrows, my draw length is, as calculated several times,  29".

All the uTubery I've seen, the arrows go through the rabbit, so my main concern is arrow loss, in that situation. NZPost is holding, for eventual delivery, some Judo broad heads and some of what I think are called Meteor broad heads. 

This is because I saw a chap hunting Rabbit in Canada and he shot each of these kinds, to test whether or not he'd lose arrows, he came to the conclusion that both, equally hung up on grass and twigs and brush and stuff, so no lost arrows.

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