# Hunting > Varminting and Small Game Hunting >  Subsonic 22LR round for hunting?

## MB

Did a bit of target practice with my new CZ 452 yesterday. All went well, but the CCI Mini-Mag ammo was very loud. Not surprising since they are supersonic. Is there a subsonic round that you guys recommend that is good for rabbit and other pests to a maximum range of 75 metres?

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## viper

The CCI sub sonic round is an excellent killer on small game and very consistent. I have found it good to over 100mtrs on rabbits. Should run very well through your CZ.

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## viper

Should say also that if you go the subsonic way then run a suppressor / silencer and through the CZ it will be very quiet. Choose a good spot and you will be able to plink away and not disturb other game.
I hardly ever use hi speed ammo any more, I find the subs a great way to shoot. Good luck.

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## veitnamcam

Whinchester 42gr powerpoint.

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## MB

Thanks for the rapid reply Viper. Looks like I'll be buying some CCI Subsonics then! I have a supressor and pretty happy with the the groupings of the Mini-Mags, so hopefully they will be similar.

Presumably the advantage of hi speed ammo is that it gives more killing power and accuracy over longer ranges?

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## Marty Henry

Not necessarily, subs are generally more accurate but yes the

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## Marty Henry

Extra velocity does give a bit more oomph but the subs will kill just as well.

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## veitnamcam

The 42gr hits with a wallop for a sub. I found the cci didnt seem to expand as well as the winny subs.

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## R93

I only use subs in my rifles and CCI is firstly the most accurate in my rifles but I have had a funny batch that threw the odd round and would not cycle the action.
Latest batch seems all good so far.
Its not the cheapest out there but definitely the most accurate that I have tried in both my suppressed .22 semis.

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## timattalon

If you are shooting rabbits then for all intensive purposes higher velocity only really affects the trajectory. (A bit easier to hit longer shots with a faster flatter trajectory.) 

As for energy and impact, I have shot with many many brands and types of 22 from ultra slow (or super quiet) at 800fps through to hyper speed of 1500 fps or more. And I can tell you they ALL punch straight through a rabbit and disappear out the other side. All the extra energy does is make a deeper hole in whatever was behind the rabbit.

Try a few different brands of subs and see what your rifle likes. It is not an expensive exercise and it is fun. CCI subs have a good rep, as does Winchester and Kilwell. I have had success with Highland and they do two different subs, subsonic around the 1000fps and super quiet at around 800fps.

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## Kscott

CCI Subsonic 22LR HP 500 Rounds - Rimfire - Ammunition - Reloaders Supplies Ltd

$89/brick. Works for me.

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## zimmer

> I only use subs in my rifles and CCI is firstly the most accurate in my rifles but I have had a funny batch that threw the odd round and would not cycle the action.
> Latest batch seems all good so far.
> Its not the cheapest out there but definitely the most accurate that I have tried in both my suppressed .22 semis.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Same, only use CCI subs for killing rabbits etc, CCI Standard for killing paper. CCI subs usually run dry in the shops b4 anything else which probably says something about their popularity.
Need to maintain a STOCKPILE.
The second best I have found were the Kilwell subs - the old blue packet now sadly superceded.

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## viper

Hey Mighty Boosh, everything the boys say on here is solid advice.
Personally I find as with any shooting shot placement plays a large part. If you have a rabbit right next to it's burrow a gut or hind quarters shot weather using Hi speed or Subs will result in the rabbit mortally wounded but escaping down its hole.
I do like the way subs deliver their energy and often have a rabbit picked up and flipped clean over by subs where a lot of hi speed just rips through. Still results in a dead rabbit though.
The one thing with subs is you need to do is spend some time working out your drop rate. Just takes a bit of practice but once you have it figured out it is very satisfying to get kills at 100mtrs plus. 
Your CZ ( I am a huge CZ fan ) is an excellent platform with GOOD optics to be a total first rate rabbit killer............practice, practice, practice........

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## R93

> CCI Subsonic 22LR HP 500 Rounds - Rimfire - Ammunition - Reloaders Supplies Ltd
> 
> $89/brick. Works for me.


That's not bad. I paid 95 bucks with a discount for my last brick. Only got it a couple weeks ago as well😆

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## Natatale

Have been using CCI subs through my 10/22 with suppressor and it works great for bunnies and possums. You can just make out the sound of the action and slight pop.

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## R93

Went up the range for a play with a new handgun and brought up the marlin for a shot as well.

15 rnds CCI subs @ 25m on a clean barrel.
It shoots a bit better when fouled.
Bought it off sneeze last year. Glad I did as it is a wee pearler 😆




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## viper

Very Nice group , nice combo of rifle, shooter and ammo.

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## rockland

My old Remington 581 .22 with it's 24" barrel loves the Winchester Subsonic 42 max. It kills possums pretty well with chest shots which I regard as a big ask for a .22LR

Suggest you grab a box of each of CCI Subsonic, Winchester Subsonic 40gr and 42gr max. Then stock up big time on whichever round shoots best.

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## Maca49

Still have 3 bricks of CCI solids @ $55.00 per brick plus freight

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## Natatale

> Still have 3 bricks of CCI solids @ $55.00 per brick plus freight


I take it that these are standard vol not sub's  :Thumbsup:

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## Maca49

> I take it that these are standard vol not sub's


No these are solid nose subs

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## R93

> Still have 3 bricks of CCI solids @ $55.00 per brick plus freight


That's a bloody good deal. 👍


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## Beetroot

CCI subsonics are what I use or CCI standard velocity. 
Have found the standard velocity to kill magpies and plovers just as well as the subsonics even though they are not hollow point.

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## veitnamcam

> CCI subsonics are what I use or CCI standard velocity. 
> Have found the standard velocity to kill magpies and plovers just as well as the subsonics even though they are not hollow point.


Thats because the hollowpoint on  cci subsonics is pretty ineffective,Winchester(40 and 42gr)and killwell subs actually expand.

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## MB

Thanks for all the replies. Seems like I have a few options for subsonic ammo.

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## quentin

I have recently bought a CZ455, and been going through the different makes of ammo to see what works well. It has the 20" barrel, and is suppressed, so I have only tried subs.
Both the CCI and Winchester 40 gn subs grouped well. The winner for grouping was the remington 40gn, which was a real surprise as it was rubbish in my previous rifle.
To my shock, about 1 in 10 of the remington rounds would go supersonic, so were ruled out for a hunting round for use in the orchards.
The CCI when recovered from game (very rare) had very little deformation, and just did not open up. The Winchester and remington rounds were a lot better in this regard - as detailed by others previously.


I'll throw some Eley Match ammo through it soon, just so I can see the rifles true potential.

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## R93

I have had some CCI from a subs box go supersonic as well.


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## quentin

Found the chrony when looking for the eley ammo which was a bonus.
The rifle has a few hundred more rounds through it, and the groups are coming in a bit from the last time I tried all of the different ammo.
I ran out of the remington ammo, so was looking for the best of what I had stockpiled.
Tested Winchester 40gr Subsonic, CCI 40gr subsonic, and the eley match 40gn  at 25m, and chronographed each of the 5 round groups.

CCI. 5 shot group: 0.213" 
velocity: 1075, 1086, 1067, 1061, 1083

Winchester 5 shot group: 0.441"
velocity: 1024, 1004, 1011, 1015, 1014

Eley match 5 shot group: 0.160"
velocity: 1110(supersonic), 1083, 1057, 1075, 1070

Winner for the hunting ammo was the CCI, and was really quite impressive. Looks like I will be sticking with that for a while.

Measurements in the images are measured across the outside of the grouping, rather than centre-to-centre.

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## Elrond

I use cci subs on my 455 long and can't fault them.

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## quentin

60gr! That is a lot of lead for a little case.

I imagine they will kill just as well as any other solid, and with that weight will not be stopping for bones found in rabbits, possums, or birds.
With increased accuracy, you have options for more well placed shots, so bullet expansion makes no difference.

Where did you find these, and what are they worth?

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## MB

Well chaps, been trying the CCI Subsonics as recommended and what a difference! Noticeably quieter than my friend's air rifle! So quiet, after the first shot, I thought it was a misfire or a jam.

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## res

> Attachment 44959
> Anyone else tried these boys ? , thet sure are accurate in my Beretta but I havnt actually hit meat with them yet  so cant say for  knock down power ..... they are solids


I love them,they don't feed well in some semi's. in a bolt gun,esp with a old bit od 223 barrel fitted,they can be fantastic when combined with a dial up scope and a range finder. not cheep and can be hard to find

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## rockland

hamsav yes I tried a couple of boxes of Aguila Sniper SubSonic 60 gr when they were first sold here,different packaging to that in your photo.

Found them to be accurate at 50 yd. Not surprisingly the trajectory was like throwing a pumpkin,shot much lower than the 40 gr Subsonics I usually use.

Never used them on game because of the rainbow trajectory and I doubt they'd expand much anyway.

Interesting ammo but I'm not sure what actual use it is! Homekilling pigs or sheep in the yards?

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## veitnamcam

> hamsav yes I tried a couple of boxes of Aguila Sniper SubSonic 60 gr when they were first sold here,different packaging to that in your photo.
> 
> Found them to be accurate at 50 yd. Not surprisingly the trajectory was like throwing a pumpkin,shot much lower than the 40 gr Subsonics I usually use.
> 
> Never used them on game because of the rainbow trajectory and I doubt they'd expand much anyway.
> 
> Interesting ammo but I'm not sure what actual use it is! Homekilling pigs or sheep in the yards?


Exactly that is what they are good for.
They are hard to find because hamsav has the only rifle in internet land that shoots them well....I got a box years ago(was the first time I had seen them) and in the JW15 I tried them in I would have been substantially more accurate throwing rocks blindfolded....so some rifles dont like them.

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## res

Try them in a AR with a .22 kit-you may need weaker springs but they love the .223 twist. .22lr twist, not so much

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## Steve123

> Exactly that is what they are good for.
> They are hard to find because hamsav has the only rifle in internet land that shoots them well....I got a box years ago(was the first time I had seen them) and in the JW15 I tried them in I would have been substantially more accurate throwing rocks blindfolded....so some rifles dont like them.


They go ok through my JW 15 but I figured if I want to shoot above 40 gr it was time to go shopping and got a 223

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## Steve123

> Exactly that is what they are good for.
> They are hard to find because hamsav has the only rifle in internet land that shoots them well....I got a box years ago(was the first time I had seen them) and in the JW15 I tried them in I would have been substantially more accurate throwing rocks blindfolded....so some rifles dont like them.


They go ok through my JW 15 but I figured if I want to shoot above 40 gr it was time to go shopping and got a 223

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## kotuku

I use winchester subs in both me old toz&mejw15,does the bizzo.
Remington subs all over the show like a mad womens shit!
My alltime favourite .22 ammo was the mighty winchester dynapoint &rabbit ammo blew many a snarling possum out of his tree with those ,including one whose left lung or remains thereof decorated me torch&corgi one winters night.served the bastard right for accusing me of humpin his girlfiriend.I shot her in the next shot!
Those rounds never ever let me down.
Mind you  have half a bloody ammo tin ful of assorted .22 ammo which even after 20yrs im still workin me way through!
Now the .223 is suppressor fitted cant wait to suprise a few magpies etc with 55gn courier parcels.

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## timattalon

> Attachment 44959
> Anyone else tried these boys ? , thet sure are accurate in my Beretta but I havnt actually hit meat with them yet  so cant say for  knock down power ..... they are solids


60gr solids too. They approached the load in a slightly different concept. Instead of reducing the powder load to slow it down they upped the weight. If your rifle likes them then they do carry a bit more momentum at the longer rages you will try with a 22. Aguila solids are usually pretty good. I used them in a couple of my rifles for a while.

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## Marty Henry

22 short case with the 60 gr bullet to keep the oa length right. Wont stableise in some rifles but in fast twist barrels are very accurate. Not a bad outdoor target and bunny round but you do need to get the distance right.

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## viper

How were they for accuracy Mighty Boosh ?

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## smidey

My jw 15 shoots best with the Winchester 42 or 40gr subs. They are quite notably louder than 36gr Winchester though. I've got a few of the bullets back, I'll digg out a photo. They expand well

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## smidey

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...d.php?p=331583
This thread is about the Winchesters I use including pics of retrieved projectile 

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## gadgetman

> If you are shooting rabbits then for all intensive purposes higher velocity only really affects the trajectory. (A bit easier to hit longer shots with a faster flatter trajectory.) 
> 
> As for energy and impact, I have shot with many many brands and types of 22 from ultra slow (or super quiet) at 800fps through to hyper speed of 1500 fps or more. *And I can tell you they ALL punch straight through a rabbit and disappear out the other side.* All the extra energy does is make a deeper hole in whatever was behind the rabbit.
> 
> Try a few different brands of subs and see what your rifle likes. It is not an expensive exercise and it is fun. CCI subs have a good rep, as does Winchester and Kilwell. I have had success with Highland and they do two different subs, subsonic around the 1000fps and super quiet at around 800fps.


This is my experience too. Even the 36gr PMX subs would go right through the length of a rabbit and exit. After several dozen I have still not recovered a projectile of any type with subs or standard velocity. My rifle really liked the 36gr subs and anything out to 110m was a bang flop but now that rabbit numbers are down I just use standard velocity or the 223.

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## Ranger 888

My fully suppressed Ruger 10/22 shoots 3 holes touching at 25m, and a 26mm group at 75m, using CCI subsonics. BUT, every rifle has an ammo brand that it prefers over all others. You need to experiment. There's no one brand that fits all , Mighty Boosh.

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## MB

> How were they for accuracy Mighty Boosh ?


Identical to the Mini-mags at 50 metres. Less good groupings at 70 metres, but still acceptable. Was hitting 2 inch metal discs 100% of the time. Also, I didn't try the Mini-mags at 70 metres, so can't do a direct comparison.

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## viper

You can always try another brand but a 2inch plate at 70mtrs is a dead rabbit 100% of the time. Nice going mate.

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## gonetropo

cci do a supersonic round called quikshock, the projectile splits into 3 pieces on impact and causes huge trauma. i believe they now do a subsonic round that does the same

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## Tombi

I bought some Remington subs the other day to mess around with on targets and they are shit, 1 in 5 comes out with a crack. Getvwhat you pay for though were well cheap

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## ChrisF

Any news on the heavier subsonic ammo fromthe US , by CCi & Win ?

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## smidey

> Any news on the heavier subsonic ammo fromthe US , by CCi & Win ?


What ones are those?

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## ChrisF

I think , CCI & American Eagle , & WIn are all doing a 45gr subsonic , aimed at the US 10/22 & pistol users that run suppressors .

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## res

I would like to have a play with some of that

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## Jexla

> I think , CCI & American Eagle , & WIn are all doing a 45gr subsonic , aimed at the US 10/22 & pistol users that run suppressors .


Is that right? Hrmmmm

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## smidey

We can get it here?

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## bumblefoot

I usually sight in my 10/22 to be 1" high at 25-metres; to be on at 50-metres with standard Winchester Powerpoint for hunting. I'm now about to try using subsonics with a slip on suppressor for rabbits/possums. What do you usually sight in for (at 25-metres) to be on at 50 with subs? I can't really find a definitive answer online. Thanks!!!  :-)

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## Dangerous Dan

Yeah, that should be good. I sight mine in at 25m, just play around at 50m, 75m and 100m until you get an idea of what your hold over is like for those distances. If you have the option to dial, I'm using 11moa at 100m with a 25m zero.

If you have a duplex reticle on 4x power, the tip of triangle on the bottom post is 60-70m for me. The bottom of the triangle is about 80m and 100m is random part of the way (about 1/5) down the post ... ?

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## smidey

I sight mine in at 20yds. 
Winchester 40gr sub chrony ave 1035fps. so according to strelok app........
20yd  0.00
30yd -0.45"
40yd -0.59"
50yd -0.35"
60yd  0.24"
70yd  1.22"

so zero at 20yd means it's back at zero around 55yd. Since i sighted in at this range i have aimed straight at the target out to around 70yd and have not missed. This is as accurate as I care to set it up as i just use a 4x32 scope, rifle is a JW15 fully suppressed.
Chrony data, rifle and retrieved projectile info
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...results-18428/

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## bumblefoot

Thank you both :-)

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## MB

I've now got a good feel for what my rifle and scope do at various distances with CCI subs. I zero at 50 metres. At 25 metres, it shoots a little high, but not really worth changing anything. Shoots a good 3 inches low at 75 metres. If I put the end of the thick part of the lower reticle on what I want to hit, it comes good. Great groupings at all of those distances. I've yet to get either good grouping or consistent drop at 100 metres, so still working on that!

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## Littledog

Minimags are great if you dont mind the crack. I used to buy CCI subs but now just use the standards as they are only 20-25fps faster than subs and $30 cheaper a brick. I dont mind that they are not HP and the rabbits dont seem to notice the difference as they still jump then lie still when hit.
If you want really quite you can try those cci quiets but they are only about 700fps I think.

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## i41do2

I've just been using Remington Subsonics in my suppressed ruger 10/22, 38 gr.  Its pretty average ammo to be fair.  Its quite variable and a number of rounds fired through gave off a much louder crack. I suspect the QC in manufacture is pretty poor and powder loads are larger in some giving supersonic performance.  I have had much better performance from Winchester ammo. 
With the remingtons i did hit a magpie from about 200m but it just jumped back up and flew off.

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## Tombi

> I've just been using Remington Subsonics in my suppressed ruger 10/22, 38 gr.  Its pretty average ammo to be fair.  Its quite variable and a number of rounds fired through gave off a much louder crack. I suspect the QC in manufacture is pretty poor and powder loads are larger in some giving supersonic performance.  I have had much better performance from Winchester ammo. 
> With the remingtons i did hit a magpie from about 200m but it just jumped back up and flew off.


I bought a 500 box of the 40gr Remington Subsonics and found exactly the same thing, It is rubbish!! 1 in about 7 comes out supersonic. I've relegated it to backup ammo or stuff to practice / dick around with

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## Mooseman

I have found the Winchester 40 gr sub's to be great. I worked for the Pest Destruction Board here in the BOP for 30 plus years and have used many thousands of rounds of both Sub and Super on Rabbits, Hares, Possums, Wallabies, goats( a  few)
Most of my shooting was at night and using a Ruger 10/22 of which I had very few problems, only when the  rifle was rather dirty form lots of rounds (5000 plus)did I start getting a few jams. Once cleaned back to trouble free shooting till dirty again.  I found that most of the bullets recovered from animals were nicely mushroomed usually double the diameter and still retained a lot of there weight. Out to 70-80 meters they were excellent killers and in my Ruger's they always shot  very well.  Still use them today as they are hard to beat.

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## quentin

Finally managed to recover a 40gn CCI Sub from a rabbit. I was pleasantly surprised to see it mushroomed out, but totally held together. 37grains when I weighed it.
The rabbit was shot from 50m, through the top of the head, and the bullet was resting just under the skin on the back of the back leg. This amount of penetration would explain why after a few bricks of ammo, this is the first whole bullet I have recovered.

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## rewd

After finally running out of Aussie made win subs all bought 20 years ago (30 000) rounds and not having any luck with the Yank made replacement I have been using CCI standard which I batch through a rim thickness gauge and then run through a Waltz sizer hollow pointer.A bit of shagging around but gives me something to do during down time at work.Removes a lot of the fliers and saves $30 per brick.Hits hard and shoots well in my jw15(One out of the first shipment brought to NZ 30 years ago,will NEVER part with it) my 10/22 and my fathers old Springfield also shoot well with this ammo.

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## quentin

Heres a pic of the recovered CCI Sub

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## R93

Who is stocking the CCI 40 grainers? 
I wouldn't mind trying some.

I tried some  other brands but they didn't go well through my rifle. They were too long for my Mosquito as well.

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## quentin

Got mine from Guncity - $90 / 500.

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## Kscott

https://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/am...ml#rimfireammo

https://secure.zeald.com/shooterssup...e%20Ammunition
incl CCI 40g Quiet

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