# Firearms and Shooting > Pistol Shooting >  Pistol NZ Legal opinion on Safe regulations

## specweapon

Very interesting reading for anyone that hasn't read it. Sorry if it's been posted elsewhere

legal_opinion_re_safes.pdf

Also a good read on the legality of collapsible stocks and minimum length
http://founz.co.nz/documents/CCF08122016_3.pdf

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## johnd

Funny this should come up. I have just been over this same topic with a couple of people.
Problem is most new B applicants will do whatever the AO asks of them so as to obtain that sacred endorsement. I was dumbfounded when I heard that same bit about compliant certificates.

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## stug

My safe recently passed OK, gave them the piece of paper that came with the safe. The vetting guy was happy and so was the AO. I bought the safe back in June/July but was only vetted in December. The vetting guy was more interested in how I had attached it to the floor and wall rather than anything elese.

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## Beaker

> My safe recently passed OK, gave them the piece of paper that came with the safe. The vetting guy was happy and so was the AO. I bought the safe back in June/July but was only vetted in December. The vetting guy was more interested in how I had attached it to the floor and wall rather than anything elese.


Did they ask about burring or welding the end of the threads inside the safe? Mine did. (Safe 200 plus kgs) Because I didn't do either. I mentioned that if they had the safe open and we're wanting to take the safe, I didn't mind, they could have it - because they already have the guns.

 And that I would be more pissed off that they had my guns, as if they were trying to undo the bolts, they must have the door open. He didn't really have a answer and said its all OK...... practical people down here  :Have A Nice Day:

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## stug

Nope, no questions like that. The vetting person is an ex-cop and a bloody good guy. A couple of interesting points. Always have the safe key on your person because when you are asked to open the safe if he sees you get the key off a hook or from somewhere he will fail you on security because he now knows where you keep the key.

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## stumpy

my last safe check , the ex cop asked if my wife knew where the key was kept ..... threw me for a sec , ... and i said no , and i asked him on it , he said he needed to check to make sure the wife (who isnt vetted) wouldnt go nuts and shoot me , ... if she could find the keys , then find the mags then find the loaded bullets , ... good luck to her .

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## specweapon

> he said he needed to check to make sure the wife (who isnt vetted) wouldnt go nuts and shoot me , ... if she could find the keys , then find the mags then find the loaded bullets , ... good luck to her .


I guess we need to keep the kitchen knives under lock and key too...

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## Tommy

When I wasn getting vetted the guy asked me a similar thing, just told him that she watches the 'Wives with knives' thing on Sky a lot. He cracked up

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## johnd

Long time back when  a friend was getting vetted they asked " how is this bolted to the floor ?"
My friend said  " no bolts it weighs a tonne " " oh thats not good enough " was the reply 
Friend said " you'e not listening, it weighs a tonne " "try moving it "
He passed when common sense prevailed.

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## Clint Ruin

When I got vetted the vetter told me of one place he went to for a renewal and the old fella had all the keys on a board in the kitchen clearly marked Garage Shed Gunsafe etc

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## 308

FWIW my pistol safe is a compartment (sep lock) inside my E-cat, I've also got a sep compartment (again, locked) that holds ammo

No probs with my local vetter who passed it about two weeks ago

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## Jexla

> my last safe check , the ex cop asked if my wife knew where the key was kept ..... threw me for a sec , ... and i said no , and i asked him on it , he said he needed to check to make sure the wife (who isnt vetted) wouldnt go nuts and shoot me , ... if she could find the keys , then find the mags then find the loaded bullets , ... good luck to her .


You're telling me your wife has not a single fucking clue where the key to your safe is? Don't lie to yourself...

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## nzfubz

> You're telling me your wife has not a single fucking clue where the key to your safe is? Don't lie to yourself...


I'm telling you my wife has no idea and why would she?

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## R93

Same. 
My cook couldn't give a rats ass either. 
Key pad entry and 2 keys if the batteries die hidden at my folks place.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## Beaker

Key pad for me. Keys hidden, only place/person that knows where they are, is me and a sealed letter with my will. And nobody else knows the keypad number.

Wife also doesn't care or have any interest in getting into the safe - in fact she has never asked about the code, or where the keys are.

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## timattalon

Next time we do our vetting will be when my wife gets her license. She has no interest in my guns or hunting but she has no interest in them being taken from her either if something was to happen to me. Consider if something happened to yourself.(car accident, other fatality, etc) and realise that while the wife is dealing with all the grief and strife that is happening, that on top of that she has the police (or someone else) arrive to take the firearms to where they can be legally stored.  

It also has the advantage that if I forget something (bolt ammo or something else in the cabinet) or I lend a rifle to another hunting mate (or for any other reason) I can call an ask her to get them out for me. That completely negates them bothering to ask "_if my wife knew where the key was kept_" as the answer would be "Damn straight she does. Her one is in there too....

Just saying.....

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## stumpy

> You're telling me your wife has not a single fucking clue where the key to your safe is? Don't lie to yourself...


so , always hard to decide how someone is writing something and in what tone , but whats up with the agro ?
 @Jexla

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## mikee

> You're telling me your wife has not a single fucking clue where the key to your safe is? Don't lie to yourself...


Mine knows exactly where the key to the safe is, Its locked in the safe!!

Now the combination she has less than no idea of and has never asked. Its not written down ANYHERE and if anything should happen to me the locksmiths will no doubt be getting a call

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## Jexla

> so , always hard to decide how someone is writing something and in what tone , but whats up with the agro ?
>  @Jexla


Not at all aggro mate, just saying you're telling a bit of a porky.


However in mikee's case that makes absolute sense, there's no reason to give the spouse the code if they're not a firearm user.

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## R93

> Next time we do our vetting will be when my wife gets her license. She has no interest in my guns or hunting but she has no interest in them being taken from her either if something was to happen to me. Consider if something happened to yourself.(car accident, other fatality, etc) and realise that while the wife is dealing with all the grief and strife that is happening, that on top of that she has the police (or someone else) arrive to take the firearms to where they can be legally stored.  
> 
> It also has the advantage that if I forget something (bolt ammo or something else in the cabinet) or I lend a rifle to another hunting mate (or for any other reason) I can call an ask her to get them out for me. That completely negates them bothering to ask "_if my wife knew where the key was kept_" as the answer would be "Damn straight she does. Her one is in there too....
> 
> Just saying.....


Great idea mate. I do have someone in my will to "hold" my firearms until such time my son is properly licenced. All my kit is willed to him.

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## gimp

Security checks seem to be a mixed bag. Guy doing mine when I changed address didn't even realise I had a B/E endorsement until he saw inside the safe. No questions about keys

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## mikee

> Great idea mate. I do have someone in my will to "hold" my firearms until such time my son is properly licenced. All my kit is willed to him.


I have the same deal organised. They go to my brother to he held for my Nephew (and nieces if they are interested) Endorsed ones go to my best mate until wifey decides what to do with them. 
  Lots of people don't think about what happens god forbid they have an accident

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## stumpy

> Not at all aggro mate, just saying you're telling a bit of a porky.
> 
> 
> However in mikee's case that makes absolute sense, there's no reason to give the spouse the code if they're not a firearm user.


 @Jexla .... do you know me personally ?

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## Beavis

My keys are with me all the time. You'd literally have to fight me for access to my safe.

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## stumpy

all these guys @Jexla coming out with statements about their security and yet no comment from you except on my post .......is this personal ?

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## zimmer

Most safes can be opened with a pocket knife  :Psmiley: 

Wife has full access to safe, after all she has a firearms licence, and 1/ Because she has a couple of rifles of her own, 2/ If anything should happen to me "they" are not going to come and remove my stuff.

And same as R93 I have a reciprocal agreement with a mate. Should something happen to him I am in his will and his collection comes to me to dispose of on his wife's behalf. I would ensure she gets proper value rather than ripped off by a dealer at a time when she may not be at her best to cope.

Fark, this thread is getting morbid now, but I wonder how many others have thought it thru should something bad happen.

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## Jexla

> all these guys @Jexla coming out with statements about their security and yet no comment from you except on my post .......is this personal ?


Hey mate, don't know you from a bar of soap, sorry you've taken it so badly. Forget I said anything  :Have A Nice Day:

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## 308

> Most safes can be opened with a pocket knife 
> 
> Wife has full access to safe, after all she has a firearms licence, and 1/ Because she has a couple of rifles of her own, 2/ If anything should happen to me "they" are not going to come and remove my stuff.
> 
> And same as R93 I have a reciprocal agreement with a mate. Should something happen to him I am in his will and his collection comes to me to dispose of on his wife's behalf. I would ensure she gets proper value rather than ripped off by a dealer at a time when she may not be at her best to cope.
> 
> Fark, this thread is getting morbid now, but I wonder how many others have thought it thru should something bad happen.


Yeah I have the same agreement with a mate who is endorsed - It's not really morbid, just prudent

If we who are talking here provide the impetus for someone to make the same sort of agreement with a mate elsewhere then I call that a damn fine thing

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## petronious_arbiter

> If we who are talking here provide the impetus for someone to make the same sort of agreement with a mate elsewhere then I call that a damn fine thing


you've got me thinking, alright — thanks, guys.

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## MaW

I had one person ask me recently if my wife knew where the keys were to the safe.  I told him she didn't and he said he had told his wife following some home invasion where they wanted the wife who was at home to open the safe.   He thought it was  better she did than get bashed.

    In two minds about it though.  Then they have your wife and guns..

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## Steve123

> I had one person ask me recently if my wife knew where the keys were to the safe.  I told him she didn't and he said he had told his wife following some home invasion where they wanted the wife who was at home to open the safe.   He thought it was  better she did than get bashed.
> 
>     In two minds about it though.  Then they have your wife and guns..


A guy I work with said his mate was renewing his licence and the vettor asked his wife if she could get the keys so he could check the safe was bolted correctly. She got the vettor the keys, they guy didn't get his licence renewed.

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## Steve123

More importantly if wife has keys wife can count.

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## keneff

> Most safes can be opened with a pocket knife 
> 
> Wife has full access to safe, after all she has a firearms licence, and 1/ Because she has a couple of rifles of her own, 2/ If anything should happen to me "they" are not going to come and remove my stuff.
> 
> And same as R93 I have a reciprocal agreement with a mate. Should something happen to him I am in his will and his collection comes to me to dispose of on his wife's behalf. I would ensure she gets proper value rather than ripped off by a dealer at a time when she may not be at her best to cope.
> 
> Fark, this thread is getting morbid now, but I wonder how many others have thought it thru should something bad happen.


Good one Zimmer. Me too. In my case, it's my brother, and him I trust with my life.

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## Jexla

> A guy I work with said his mate was renewing his licence and the vettor asked his wife if she could get the keys so he could check the safe was bolted correctly. She got the vettor the keys, they guy didn't get his licence renewed.


Like I said previously, if your spouse doesn't know where you keep your keys then she's not very observant of her place of living / surroundings is she?

There's a reason they ask about the mental well being (and if they're on meds) of others you live with.

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## Koshogi

> Like I said previously, if your spouse doesn't know where you keep your keys then she's not very observant of her place of living / surroundings is she?
> 
> There's a reason they ask about the mental well being (and if they're on meds) of others you live with.


Many people have negligible situational awareness, including in their own home.

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## Beaker

> Like I said previously, if your spouse doesn't know where you keep your keys then she's not very observant of her place of living / surroundings is she?
> 
> There's a reason they ask about the mental well being (and if they're on meds) of others you live with.


So what about your keys etc....? Do you have a missus or boyfriend - do they know where your keys/codes are? What's your plan if you get hit by a bus tomorrow?

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## systolic

> So what about your keys etc....? Do you have a missus or boyfriend - do they know where your keys/codes are? What's your plan if you get hit by a bus tomorrow?


My combination safe would have to be cut open to get the keys. My girlfriend has no idea of the combination.

In fact I am the only person in the world who knows what it is. And I have no plans to change this.

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## Steve123

> Like I said previously, if your spouse doesn't know where you keep your keys then she's not very observant of her place of living / surroundings is she?
> 
> There's a reason they ask about the mental well being (and if they're on meds) of others you live with.


Like I said earlier.  I'm more concerned about the missus counting them and wondering why I have the amount of ammo I do.
Disposal in the event of death is sorted

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

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## Willie

> Like I said previously, if your spouse doesn't know where you keep your keys then she's not very observant of her place of living / surroundings is she?
> 
> There's a reason they ask about the mental well being (and if they're on meds) of others you live with.


Hey Jexla that's a fairly big assumption on the wife not being observant of her place of living!
Like a lot of the guys here my wife doesn't know where I keep my keys and while she might have an idea what room they are kept in I would say good luck to her to find them. I'm not able to answer for any others on here but I personally have areas of my house set aside for me that she won't go in to and likewise I won't encroach on her areas- we respect each others privacy especially when it's all to do with personal space and time to yourself.

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## Jexla

> So what about your keys etc....? Do you have a missus or boyfriend - do they know where your keys/codes are? What's your plan if you get hit by a bus tomorrow?


Of course she knows where they are, avoidable? Unlikely. I have plans in place for my firearms in the event of my demise, lots of firearm owning friends with the correct endorsements.

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## Maca49

I've made sure the AO never get his mits on my firearms. Have a reciprocal deal with a good mate. You do need a plan. Re my wife, we share all, if I didn't trust her 100% I wouldn't be married to her (44 yrs this yr). Not that she really cares about anything I own, only the mess I'd leave if I karked!

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## mcdeee

So, with endorsed firearms, I assume the correct answer is no, she has no idea...

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## Jexla

> So, with endorsed firearms, I assume the correct answer is no, she has no idea...


There's no correct answer. If she wanted to look for it while you're at work she could and she'd one day find it no matter how much of a key ninja you think you are.

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## kotuku

> My combination safe would have to be cut open to get the keys. My girlfriend has no idea of the combination.
> 
> In fact I am the only person in the world who knows what it is. And I have no plans to change this.


one is tempted to ask if you are in fact the worlds biggest optimist.who manufactured the said safe-??yourself.if not given the modern unlimited world wide web and  a lot of miscreants being  computer savvy i should imagine it wouldnt be overly impossible to access the "impregnable' fortress. GIRLFIRIEND EVER COMPLIANED OF YOU TALKING IN YOUR SLEEP????????many a man revealed his closest secrets sleep talking
   Im also aware of an old saying -the first made the laws,the next found the way round them.
 human beings old chap creatures of habit-how to catch a human out observe their habits -the weakness will readily become apparent to the observer.
my security -multilayered last is wifey smiling -"hello what flowers do ya want in the wreath and do you have your funeral directors phone number??"

yesiree id sooner face a big scrub bull with prickles in his ballsack than my old darling when shes got her wee scotty ,welsh ,dander on afterburners!
 this is not a piss take squire nor casting aspersions .merely some of my reflections upon your statements.i will admit they are coloured by my extensive career in mental health ,the last decade in forensic mental health units plus a 13yr TF military career

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## mcdeee

> There's no correct answer. If she wanted to look for it while you're at work she could and she'd one day find it no matter how much of a key ninja you think you are.


By "right answer", I mean the one that ticks the box; what they want to hear. The reality is irrelevant.

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## 308

> By "right answer", I mean the one that ticks the box; what they want to hear. The reality is irrelevant.


The correct answer is the one that gets you your license renewal with a minimum of fuss as most of us don't have the time or money to take on the police lawyers so yes that is indeed the correct answer

People can stand on principal if they want but for most of us it is just a little game that we have to play with our AO every 6 months or so and we all know our roles

Just memorise your lines and try not to bump into the furniture

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## systolic

> one is tempted to ask if you are in fact the worlds biggest optimist.who manufactured the said safe-??yourself.if not given the modern unlimited world wide web and  a lot of miscreants being  computer savvy i should imagine it wouldnt be overly impossible to access the "impregnable' fortress. GIRLFIRIEND EVER COMPLIANED OF YOU TALKING IN YOUR SLEEP????????many a man revealed his closest secrets sleep talking
>    Im also aware of an old saying -the first made the laws,the next found the way round them.
>  human beings old chap creatures of habit-how to catch a human out observe their habits -the weakness will readily become apparent to the observer.
> my security -multilayered last is wifey smiling -"hello what flowers do ya want in the wreath and do you have your funeral directors phone number??"
> 
> yesiree id sooner face a big scrub bull with prickles in his ballsack than my old darling when shes got her wee scotty ,welsh ,dander on afterburners!
>  this is not a piss take squire nor casting aspersions .merely some of my reflections upon your statements.i will admit they are coloured by my extensive career in mental health ,the last decade in forensic mental health units plus a 13yr TF military career


The safe was made by a large international company. The locks were made by another. I used a change key myself to change the combination to the one I set. 

If I talked in my sleep, I would have heard about it by now. 

And even if I did, I'm more likely to let slip about how much I would like to shag her sister than a bunch of numbers.

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## Tommy

> The safe was made by a large international company. The locks were made by another. I used a change key myself to change the combination to the one I set. 
> 
> If I talked in my sleep, I would have heard about it by now. 
> 
> And even if I did, I'm more likely to let slip about how much I would like to shag her sister than a bunch of numbers.


Tell us more about this sister

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## Beaker

> Tell us more about this sister


Or at least a base line reference.....

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