# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Gongs

## Timmay

Had some fun on saturday smashing gongs with the 7mmRM and my anemic 6.5, got me thinking about sorting some of my own. Where is the best place to buy em from or does anyone on the forums make them?

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## Shootm

> Had some fun on saturday smashing gongs with the 7mmRM and my anemic 6.5, got me thinking about sorting some of my own. Where is the best place to buy em from or does anyone on the forums make them?


Pm @Blaser

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## hotbarrels

Talk to Fletcher Easy Steel in Auckland.  Had $2000 worth of plates cut from 10mm thick AR500 a couple of months ago for the club.

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## Gibo

Ha ha  :Grin:

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## Pongo12

I got 12 different size gongs from a engineers in town for $50 he drilled holes for chains etc, they were just off cuts. nothing fancy, ya only shooting the things. From 400 meters to a 1000meters. Nice heavy inch thick etc, big bombs dont punch through it.

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## hotbarrels

Its been said before, and I'll say it again, be very careful shooting steels of the wrong steel grade set at an incorrect angle to the line of fire ........... you put yourself and everyone around you at considerable risk.

https://youtu.be/hSv6g4N6UWc?list=PL...jpe3fM2r8EHJMI
https://youtu.be/1u3FBag1gvg

Save yourself, save a friend, buy AR500 plate as a minimum, and set it up at a 20 deg forward facing angle to your line if fire.  The cost difference of AR500 over mild steel plate is only a couple of boxes of ammo.  Whats you life or that of a family member worth??

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## hotbarrels

On offence intended by the above image - I would hate to see someone end up on the "incident" thread of this forum.

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## Gibo

> Had some fun on saturday smashing gongs with the 7mmRM and my anemic 6.5, got me thinking about sorting some of my own. Where is the best place to buy em from or does anyone on the forums make them?


Stop shooting my chains!!

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## muzr257

https://www.oceania-defence.com/ar500-targets.html

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## Steve123

I got a couple made up from 20mm MS for 500 yds. Problem was the wind picked up just after I'd hung it up so I put 5 rounds from the 1917 into it from 100 and can put my thumb into the divots. Quite impressive to see what grunt 30 06 corelokt has.

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## Gibo

> I got a couple made up from 20mm MS for 500 yds. Problem was the wind picked up just after I'd hung it up so I put 5 rounds from the 1917 into it from 100 and can put my thumb into the divots. Quite impressive to see what grunt 30 06 corelokt has.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk


130 barnes at 3000fps at 100  :Have A Nice Day:  300 Rum with 208 amax don't even dent em at 100. Shit standing group  :Wink:

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## Steve123

> 130 barnes at 3000fps at 100  300 Rum with 208 amax don't even dent em at 100. Shit standing group 
> Attachment 50854


Is that the 500 plate?
How thick? 

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## Gibo



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## Gibo

> Is that the 500 plate?
> How thick? 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk


Biz 400? 12mm I think

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## Steve123

> Biz 400? 12mm I think


Might look into getting some next time round.  Went MS due to cost. 1917 still has opens so got 400sq so I can see it at 500 yards

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## Gibo

> Might look into getting some next time round.  Went MS due to cost. 1917 still has opens so got 400sq so I can see it at 500 yards
> 
> Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk


It takes a pounding

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## Steve123

> It takes a pounding


I'm still working on  cattle proof posts.  Thought 75 angle 600 in would be enough. Was wrong

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## Timmay

> https://www.oceania-defence.com/ar500-targets.html


Thanks, look like the biz. 
I would probably just tap up some plane old wooden frames or use a saw horse!


Gibo it was only the one link :Grin:

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## Gibo

> Thanks, look like the biz. 
> I would probably just tap up some plane old wooden frames or use a saw horse!
> 
> 
> Gibo it was only the one link



 :Thumbsup:  Bragging rights go to you too, couldn't sort my shit out.

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## Savage1

If you're tight like me then try the scrap yard, leading edges on digger buckets, digger buckets etc, there are lots of things down there that're HT steel and only cost 60-90c per kilo, flick them a box of beers and they might gas them to shape and gas a couple of holes in them for you.

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## Steve123

> Thanks, look like the biz. 
> I would probably just tap up some plane old wooden frames or use a saw horse!
> 
> 
> Gibo it was only the one link


I'll just remember to take a sledge hammer when it's LR fun day. 75 angles strong enough not to bend but the steaks keep pushing them over.

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## hotbarrels

Just pulled out the price we paid for AR500.  A piece 300x300x10mm was $41 each +gst.
Interestingly, we were originally quoted AR400 which was only $1.21 cheaper per piece.

This is very competitive pricing and they dropped their margin to low single digit so you would struggle to match this but, in the bigger scheme of things, plates aren't expensive.

Projectile velocity is the killer of steel plates, more so than bullet weight.  Have a look at https://youtu.be/AX4AqkqQJg8

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## MSL

Ar500 is the business, punched loads of holes through 16mm stainless at 320m, only a very shallow dimple with the ar500.  And it rings rather than makes a 'whack' sound so far easier to hear a hit at longer ranges

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## 300_BLK

I just got an IPSC made up from Hardox 450 15mm thick.

What will this be able to stand up to?

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## Savage1

> I just got an IPSC made up from Hardox 450 15mm thick.
> 
> What will this be able to stand up to?


Anything bar AP ammo, pretty sure it will stand up to 338LM easily.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

I had the local engineer here chop up an old digger bucket, not sure what steel it is but he said it was a bastard to cut, its about 14mm thick and takes a pretty good thrashing hasnt really had any big cannons on it yet (270wsm and 300saum are biggest so far) but its soaked up hundreds of rounds from 270, 30-06, 223, 260, 308 etc, only cratering it has was from me "experimenting" what would happen shooting it at 100 with 270 and it put some pretty good craters in it.

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## Gibo

Sure its not plastic? 270 denting steel....you're having a go  :Grin:

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Sure its not plastic? 270 denting steel....you're having a go


I didnt mention this digger was a Tonka?

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## Gibo

Ha ha go the 270

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## gadgetman

> I didnt mention this digger was a Tonka?


Now you're really taking the piss.

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## Bagheera

How are people organising the 20 degeee downangle ?

Could you get someone to weld a few single chain links onto the back of the plate and hang it from those ?

A photo would be interesting.

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## Timmay

What's the need for the downward angle? Surely the gongs are in a place which is appropriate to begin with?

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## dirtyhabit

Downward deflection?

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## Pongo12

hardly any need for rifle work, whats the point of shooting a gong inside 400 meters at the end of the day??.... to see the dent in it or something

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## hotbarrels

> What's the need for the downward angle? Surely the gongs are in a place which is appropriate to begin with?


The 20 deg angle serves two purposes:
1.  It ensures that the projectile splatters in a downward direction and into the ground rather than off to the side or up, potentially into an unsafe zone risking injury to someone.
2.  It reduces the energy that the plate has to absorb when the projectile hits, therefore less damage to the plate, therefore your plates last longer.

The issue of uncontrolled deflection of projectiles is becoming more and more of an issue as awareness improves.  Lots of pistol clubs have now banned the likes of poppers and falling plates that hinge backwards because competitors 'chase the plate' with rounds as it falls backwards resulting in and upward facing plate and projectiles skipping out of the range safety zone/back drop.  They now only allow forward facing targets that fall forward when hit.

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## Timmay

good info, thanks @hotbarrels

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## Gibo

If the gong is hung near top it naturally deflects down

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## hotbarrels

> How are people organising the 20 degeee downangle ?
> 
> Could you get someone to weld a few single chain links onto the back of the plate and hang it from those ?
> 
> A photo would be interesting.


Yes, hanging off chains is an option and you can position the chain mounting points such that the plate will hang at 20 deg.  The biggest issue I see with chains is the time it takes for the target to resettle after being hit.  If the target is swinging then the 20 deg safety angle is constantly changing.  Therefore it you do a rapid fire on the plate and it has swung to the wrong angle, then you have the potential to deflect a round to where you don't want it.

I will try and post some images of a target stand and mounting bracket that I have developed for our club targets.  These are designed to protect the stand from all deflections and/or miss placed shots.  The only surface visible to the shooter is the plate.  This keeps maintenance to a minimum, and the setup and knock down is as simple as setting out electric fence standards.

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## Gibo

> Yes, hanging off chains is an option and you can position the chain mounting points such that the plate will hang at 20 deg.  The biggest issue I see with chains is the time it takes for the target to resettle after being hit.  If the target is swinging then the 20 deg safety angle is constantly changing.  Therefore it you do a rapid fire on the plate and it has swung to the wrong angle, then you have the potential to deflect a round to where you don't want it.
> 
> I will try and post some images of a target stand and mounting bracket that I have developed for our club targets.  These are designed to protect the stand from all deflections and/or miss placed shots.  The only surface visible to the shooter is the plate.  This keeps maintenance to a minimum, and the setup and knock down is as simple as setting out electric fence standards.


Sounds good. Keen to see it

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## hotbarrels

Here's some videos showing typical ricochet issues highlighted by using tracers.  Note the completely random directions for the rounds, even coming off the ground in the first video.  If they weren't using tracers, they would have no idea where the rounds are going.  Steels at the wrong angles are a major cause of ricochets.

https://youtu.be/PcJBJYH7Xi8
https://youtu.be/xQWtRBTP58k
https://youtu.be/gZW9I9Ka2B0
https://youtu.be/rJyKyyX7YG8

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## Steve123

> hardly any need for rifle work, whats the point of shooting a gong inside 400 meters at the end of the day??.... to see the dent in it or something


Yeah

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## veitnamcam

The tracer part generaly leaves the projectile on impact.

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## hotbarrels

> The tracer part generaly leaves the projectile on impact.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk


I would suggest that that may be the case on the rare occasion, but not the norm.  In one of the videos you can see an example of that happening where there is what looks like a firefly whizzing around at low altitude close to the target.  However the majority of the ricochets are full projectiles just based on the speed and trajectory of the flight.  No tracer material on its own has the mass to carry that flight path.
Either way, it is still a situation where high speed materials are leaving the safety of the backstop.

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## Gillie

Would be interesting to test this i.e. put the targets in a tunnel and see where all the projectiles or projectile fragments go.

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## hotbarrels

> How are people organising the 20 degeee downangle ?
> 
> Could you get someone to weld a few single chain links onto the back of the plate and hang it from those ?
> 
> A photo would be interesting.


Crappy photos as its raining and they are taken under fluro in the workshop but you will get the idea.
Here is what we came up with for our steels.  These are deliberately designed to be mounted low to the ground for range safety rules specific to our range, but you could mount them on longer uprights if you choose.  Having them mounted low to the ground means that the ground spike is largely protected from stray bullets.  One of the criteria we set for the design was for it to be low maintenance.

Ground spike is made out of 25x25x3mm MS angle iron with the vertical spikes approx 200mm long for ground penetration.  The riser above the horizontal bar can be whatever length you want depending on how high you want the target off the ground.
The mounting bracket that is welded to the back of the AR500 target plate started out as a piece of 35x35x4mm RHS 50mm long welded to a 50mmx3mm flat bar across the top at the correct length to give the RHS a 20 deg angle to the target plate.  From this prototype we then got some brackets laser cut and folded to better support the RHS and give a greater weld area and hence strength.  The bracket closes off the top of the RHS so that the vertical riser on the angle iron ground spike cannot pass through.
When mounted on the spike, the target cannot rotate and will not bounce, will not come off the stake but has enough movement to allow impact energy to dissipate and to provide a degree of 'ring' on impact.
These have withstood close range impacts with a 50AE and it didn't shake the spike out of the ground.  We have come up with an additional spreader bar that can go over the vertical riser on the ground spike before the target plate is fitted to provide extra recoils resistance but it has never been needed.
The laser cut brackets work very well and are ideal when making up larger numbers of targets but aren't necessary if you are only making a couple of plates - box section and flat bare will work.


 

Images showing the shape of the laser cut bracket and the welded assembly with the 35x35x4 RHS welding in place.


   

Close ups of bracket assembly.


 

Bracket welded in place on the back of the target, giving a 20 deg mounting point.


 

Ground spike and ground spike with target plate mounted. If you look closely, you can see a lead line on the ground spike just below the target plate matching the plate angle, resulting from the bullet splatter.  There is no damage to the ground spike unless you hit it directly with a bullet.  In service, after 20 rounds, you will find a 1-1.5m long trench form under the target plate where the bullet splatter has been directed down to the ground by the 20 deg plate angle.


Hope this helps.

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## Gibo

Is the sound as good as a swinging plate? Can be a c unit to hear at distance with muffs on and i doubt yhat would show much movement

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## hotbarrels

> Is the sound as good as a swinging plate? Can be a c unit to hear at distance with muffs on and i doubt yhat would show much movement


Haven't had any issues at 100m.  That said, for longer range I would suggest using a spring wire with a flag on it clamped to the top of the plate.  When the plate is hit, the plate movement will disrupt the flag for easy identification. The plate bracket is not a tight fit on the ground stake so the top of the plate can push back 15-20mm under recoil, but the 20 deg angle causes the plate to fall forward again due to weight and center of gravity.

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## Gibo

> Haven't had any issues at 100m.  That said, for longer range I would suggest using a spring wire with a flag on it clamped to the top of the plate.  When the plate is hit, the plate movement will disrupt the flag for easy identification. The plate bracket is not a tight fit on the ground stake so the top of the plate can push back 15-20mm under recoil, but the 20 deg angle causes the plate to fall forward again due to weight and center of gravity.


Cant see the point in shooting a gong at 100 myself. The whole point for me is out past 400 I see it swing and hear a 'gong' sound.

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## Steve123

> Cant see the point in shooting a gong at 100 myself. The whole point for me is out past 400 I see it swing and hear a 'gong' sound.


It's for when the fog just won't lift and you get frustrated.

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## Gibo

> It's for when the fog just won't lift and you get frustrated.


For some of us the fog never lifts  :Grin:

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## hotbarrels

> Cant see the point in shooting a gong at 100 myself. The whole point for me is out past 400 I see it swing and hear a 'gong' sound.


Rapid fire IPSC 3-gun

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## Gibo

> Rapid fire IPSC 3-gun


Ah got ya. Distinct difference then  :Grin:

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## Gillie

Have you tried anything larger than a .223 on them hotbarrels? I am guessing a magnum calibre will be pretty hard on the welds?

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## hotbarrels

No magnums tested.  Weld stress is why we went for the laser cut and folded bracket - it puts the majority of the structural welding into the 250 grade plate rather than the AR500.  It is also why the fit of the bracket to the ground spike has some play.  Is surprising who much energy a bit of movement dissipates.

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## Gillie

Yep, I have seen structural steel welded to the back or AR500 be snapped after a few shots with a magnum calibre at 500 yards and they were hanging targets free to swing backwards. As I am sure you are aware any welding to the armour plated steel will reduce its hardness in the heat affected zone around the weld. 

I assume the target cannot twist around the ground spike?

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## chrome

Hardox is weld able but you have to piss around with preheat and more importantly maximum interun  temps.   
The other thing is most people don't have consumables that can handle it.  

We run a 620mpa nickle alloy wire that seems to spec up to hardox ar500.  
I might have to try it one day.   
Not a cheap wire either.   But we keep it in stock at work for 500ma bar for structural work. 


Sent from the swamp

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## hotbarrels

> Yep, I have seen structural steel welded to the back or AR500 be snapped after a few shots with a magnum calibre at 500 yards and they were hanging targets free to swing backwards. As I am sure you are aware any welding to the armour plated steel will reduce its hardness in the heat affected zone around the weld. 
> 
> I assume the target cannot twist around the ground spike?


Everything is a compromise.  As I said this is how we have chosen to do it since we can put out up to 20-30 targets for an afternoons shoot, and then have to knock it all down again to clear the range.  Speed of setup and knock down is critical, as is low maintenance and maintaining a 20 deg target angle regardless of what size and shape of target being used.  And, we don't shoot magnum rifles, (or bolt guns for that matter).
Yes, welding on any hardened plate will effect it's as rolled hardness and UTS. Keeping the heat input as low as possible is critical.  AR500 is weldable with the correct weld procedure specification (WPS) and a competent welder.
No, the target cannot twist on the ground spike since it is an angle iron inside a close fitting RHS.

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## chrome

Hardly seems worth welding it
Your little brackets look like a good set up.  


Sent from the swamp

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## Moutere

I like the looks of this type, shamelessly copied the image from elsewhere.
Looks very simple and robust.

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## Shanes215

Had a bloke on the farm set up a range using old harrow discs. Been a while since I've bothered looking at them so I'm not sure whether it worked or not, I usually just ride straight past it on the way to look for some deer  :Grin:

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## Dougie

Oh man, these look so cool. 


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## 7mmsaum

> I like the looks of this type, shamelessly copied the image from elsewhere.
> Looks very simple and robust.
> 
> Attachment 51613


The mounting system is sound, and useful as long as it does not swivel with impacts, the shape of the gong we can avoid.

The Human torso is never an aim point for us, and never will be, we do not have or use weapons. 

As recreational hunters and rifle enthusiasts we imply and infer through our intentions and actions to hunt game animals only.

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## Moutere

> The mounting system is sound, and useful as long as it does not swivel with impacts, the shape of the gong we can avoid.
> 
> The Human torso is never an aim point for us, and never will be, we do not have or use weapons. 
> 
> As recreational hunters and rifle enthusiasts we imply and infer through our intentions and actions to hunt game animals only.


Although not necessarily clear, the point of reference was the hanger/bracket. Not the plate target !

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## Savage1

> I like the looks of this type, shamelessly copied the image from elsewhere.
> Looks very simple and robust.
> 
> Attachment 51613


That looks brilliantly simple, I'm going to give that a go

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## Timmay

Now that looks like the biz @Moutere

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## Ranal

Digging up an old thread, but on the hunt for a couple of gongs 300mm2 - 500mm2 sizing. Any idea on the cost or easiest place to get these around Auckland? Cheers.

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