# Hunting > Game Bird Hunting >  Best ammo for parries?

## offcut

Hi guys,

I'm new here. Have got back into bird hunting after a long break. During the last season I spent a bit of time chasing parries up the rivers of Canterbury. This was my first experience with steel shot, and I'm not very impressed. I saw a lot of feathers fly from parries but only dropped one, that I managed to get clean through the head. I'm shooting 2 3/4' shells out of a Beretta S686. What is the best option for harder hitting/longer range shells? I don't mind spending a bit more as I don't get through a lot of ammo when stalking. There is a limited summer season for parries soon and I'm keen to give the dog something to do. I considered getting a 20g semi but I really like the under-over, and have heard that 20g lead will be banned soon as well. 

Cheers.

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## Munsey

I personally don't notice any difference between lead and steel . I also think a larger pattern from a 12 g will out perform a 20 g . I use falcon high velocity steel n.o 3s .  I'll be interested what others think . And welcome to the forum

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## Spudattack

You need to go up a couple of sizes from what you used in lead, so I used no.4 lead but use no.2 steel, also the falcon high velocity steel. If you really want some hitting power try the tungsten stuff, pricey though!

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## dogmatix

As Munsey says, shoot faster velocity 3" shells #3 shot. 2 3/4" just isn't going fast enough.

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## Rushy

Welcome to the forum Offcut.

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## Rich007

I hated steel for the first couple of years for reasons similar to yours. I have now become used to it and have a good success rate. The lack of clean kills is most likely due to a lack of pellets hitting the duck, pellet energy could be another factor depending on the ranges. For me #3 steel would be a minimum for parries unless they were decoying.

 My shooting is on a lake and the shots are often medium to long. I patterned as many different loads as I could get my hands on, through the skeet,1/4 and 1/2 chokes at 25 and 40 yards in MY shotgun. The results were really interesting. with a lot of the ammo there were 'duck sized' holes in the middle of the pattern. Some patterned really will with one choke and then really crap with another. I eventually settled on (this only applies to my shotgun) 1/2 choke and Remington 3"1/18 sportsman for the first 3 shots, then Federal 3" 1/14 Premium for the rest - which patterned tighter than the remington with the same choke.

It's amazing what the patterns are actually doing compared to what you think they are doing!

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## Toby

I use GB 2 3/4" #3 lead and GB 3" #2 steel. Let he birds get a little closer with steel.

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## Happy

Hornady 55 Grain Training ammo .223 cal for me...   (Joking of course )

Welcome to the forum.. Specially as a Beretta owner dont you just love them !!

 + 1 Check the pattern of your gun. Get as many mates togeather as you can with a box or two each and

 check whats going on. You ll double your strike rate by finding the one that suits your gun.

 Dont just use something cos its works for your mate and sorry but the guy in the shop may help with

 shot size etc but he cant help you with which brand will work for you.

 Mines B&P 3 " 2 + 3 Steel for my Beretta but there was none last year so I sucked all season.

 Will repattern this year and start again..

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## Toby

> Hornady 55 Grain Training ammo .223 cal for me...   (Joking of course


Yeah joking  :Wink:

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## MassiveAttack

I think the whole go up two sizes for steel recommendation is a bit dangerous.     2s are quite big shot and you run the risk of missing a small bird (i.e. not a goose) completely.  I wouldn't go any bigger than steel 3s.   When shooting steel get the highest velocity shells you can.  Of course you would be a lot better finding a paddock of parries and decoying them rather than jump shooting the.

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## Maca49

If ducks died of lead poisioning do they now jus rust away?

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## Wirehunt

> I also think a larger pattern from a 12 g will out perform a 20 g .


 :Grin:    You could just shoot better.

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## Dundee

Welcome offcut,I found no 2's steel did the trick for me.   Not long now till parrie season :Thumbsup: 

Heres last years effort for you 'offcut' :Wink:  The summer parrie season.

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...43/index2.html

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## Spudattack

Get a double and pull both triggers...

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## Maca49

> Get a double and pull both triggers...


You mean rifle not shotgun aye?

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## andyanimal31

i have heard 22-250 is quite effective for the more difficult shots at range, :Cool:

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## offcut

Thanks for the welcome, and replies. I can only put 2 3/4" shells through my shotty so that limits the options a bit. I think I'll get a few different boxes and blast some cardboard and see what the patterns look like. It is currently un-choked. I have looked at getting it choked but there wouldn't be a lot of steel left if I did. To be honest, it is more of a trap gun that I am using as a multi-tool (trap, ducks, pests). I'll grab a box of tungsten and see if that helps. I know its pricey but as I'm jump shooting, I only use a few rounds each time. For the pond I'll try some 2 or 3's in steel. Thanks for the advice. If you see me walking up the Ashley in Feb with a yellow lab come and say gidday. Cheers.

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## skeet72

i find 50bmg or or a LAND MINE

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## offcut

I might be being a bit cheeky, but is there anyone in Canterbury keen to let me have a crack at some parries on their land? As an urban hunter the hardest thing is finding access. I have some family with farms but for some reason they want to leave the parries alone. Might be able to donate the odd cray or moki fillet to show my appreciation. Cheers.

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## Druid

The thing about steel is it patterns a lot tighter and more evenly than lead , so if you leads  were just catching the bird in your pattern with lead you will probably fringe it or miss completely with steel . The US Wildlife guys identified wounding as a major cause of duck death long before steel came along so lead isnt entirely blameless .

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## private Ryan

I find a claymore must effective  :Thumbsup:

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## Maca49

A 12g with a knife cut round the cartridge just behind the wad. Wad,shot,and 1/2 the hull go out the barrel complete, they whistle a bit but devastating on impact, good range as well, mine the choke size!

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## Spanners

1- 1 1/4oz #4 or #5 lead is all we;ve ever shot on ducks
Geese get #2 lead
You can stick your steel up your arrrrzzee  :Yarr:

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## Toby

> A 12g with a knife cut round the cartridge just behind the wad. Wad,shot,and 1/2 the hull go out the barrel complete, they whistle a bit but devastating on impact, good range as well, mine the choke size!


The lost art of "Cut Shells" - YouTube

 :Grin:

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## Spanners

We call them 'Ringers'

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## samba

I use steel shot. It took me a while to come around but in the long run its lack of preformance can only make you a better shooter

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## veitnamcam

I take it this could get interesting with full or extra full choke ?

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Maca49

[QUOTE=veitnamcam;79897]I take it this could get interesting with full or extra full choke ?

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2[/QUOTE

Just squeezes them out a little further a little faster!

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## Munsey

Good trick!  , there gun safety was slack too say the least ! .

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## 30calterry

good old ringers aye but u only need to score a line with ur pocket knife not all way though and  i only use them in my moss 590 open choke  they can make sme ugly noises otherwise

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## 30calterry

another good one is while your mate is havn a piss and only if he has a pump cut the very front of shell empty out shot reload before hes back and wait for nxt duck its hilarious

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## Toby

> another good one is while your mate is havn a piss and only if he has a pump cut the very front of shell empty out shot reload before hes back and wait for nxt duck its hilarious


I have a plan now  :Grin:

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## Spanners

> I take it this could get interesting with full or extra full choke ?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


To be honest, I think that choke mean buggers all when you arr forcing the case down the bore.
Cyl to full is typically 40 thou (1mm) constriction from memory - and from the chamber to bore you are pushing alot more than that

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## Lentil

Another thing to consider is that size shot from the USA differs in pellet diameter to that of UK and also from Italy. A No.3 shot from USA is 3.6mm dia, which is approximately the same as a No.1 from UK, and falls in between 1 and 2 from Italy.
UK no.3 is approx the same size as USA no.4 (3.3mm). Bottom line - shells from the USA have bigger pellets than UK and Italy (for the same designated sizing).
Also, muzzle velocity is measured at the muzzle for UK/Europe shells, but 3 feet out from the muzzle in USA. That 3 feet does make a difference to velocities for steel (which slows much quicker than lead), meaning when comparing velocity, USA if going faster than the equivalent UK shells.
All sounds pretty boring, but it does make a big difference - particularly the shot size comparison.

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## Dundee

I seen a fulla at the range that switched the last shot at a shoot out and it was down too the last target,the fulla reloaded his own and the last shot from the competitor fired compheti.

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## Wirehunt

> another good one is while your mate is havn a piss and only if he has a pump cut the very front of shell empty out shot reload before hes back and wait for nxt duck its hilarious


Very very dodgy, stuck wad could cause MAJOR issues....

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## Maca49

> Very very dodgy, stuck wad could cause MAJOR issues....



Why would the wad not exit the barrel? Serious question 
, does it collapse?

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## Chris

I found 223 was very effective ,messy but effective.They tend to explode some what.

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## Wirehunt

> Why would the wad not exit the barrel? Serious question 
> , does it collapse?


Opps, wrong way round.  We had a shot go pop the other day, shot sort of came out but stuck wad.  Just luck one of the boys noticed.

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## 30calterry

> Very very dodgy, stuck wad could cause MAJOR issues....


so a wad if its doesnt exit and they all do is serious because when the nxt wad hits the last plastic wad theres to much pressure? or when jokes ova and there where no shot filld shells in the gun anyway ,check the gun and carry on!

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## Chris

> Very very dodgy, stuck wad could cause MAJOR issues....


Your very right Wirehunt ,the next shell could split the barrel its full length due to excess pressure.The guy holding it could very likely end up in A & E. Quite scarey ,I wouldn't want to be responsible .

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## Toby

I have a few primers for a shotgun laying around, What if I cut and old shell and just put the half shell with only the primer in, Im gonna do it to my brother just have it in my pocket till I get the chance

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## 30calterry

the wad is just behind the shot pushing it , if theres no shot it must go faster and exit better , be worried if it didnt exit with no shot because with shot it is more likely to get stuck isnt it?

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## 30calterry

just fired 2 rounds out back at midget height gun level , with shot wad goes 20m, without shot goes 24m

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## Chris

> just fired 2 rounds out back at midget height gun level , with shot wad goes 20m, without shot goes 24m


Wouldn't put money on that happening with a full or even 3/4 choke.Lost count of the number of times I've wads stuck in barrels at the gun club.Any shooter that does it twice ,its on ya bike clown .

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## 30calterry

> Wouldn't put money on that happening with a full or even 3/4 choke.Lost count of the number of times I've wads stuck in barrels at the gun club.Any shooter that does it twice ,its on ya bike clown .


hw many with shot and hw many without?

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## Chris

> hw many with shot and hw many without?


All of them had shot in ,they where target shooting .

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## 30calterry

all of them without?

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## 30calterry

> All of them had shot in ,they where target shooting .


shit just read ur comment again sori, was gona say u must hav a small gun club and a big circus in ur town(lots of clowns) but i wont nw cause u agree with me , wad is more likely to jam with shot !

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## kotuku

I generally use english/european 3"no 2&3 32gm loads for all birds in the duck season. have same in 2 3/4"as well as a backup."Hull/Eley"brands
  I  am just now adopting a more calculated aproach to touching the bang lever after developing a very healthy skybusting tendency .
  yes it helps to be able to estimate  range and call the shot.however the opposite is also true.As gadgetman will testify,euthanasia of a wee mallard hen (running through chow mollier crop) with a 3"eley hi power load at 6'range aint pretty.the laconic final score-"2birds down 1 &1/2 to bring home".paradise generally tolerate goose loads ok in medium range.
shootin cobber who packs a remington 20g drops them consistently with 3"loads.copper plated shot.

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## gsp follower

do not use tungsten iron in any tightly choked gun try the 2 3/4 inch gamebore 30 gram steel loads in 3 shot. mate was creaming everything with them last year.



> shootin cobber who packs a remington 20g drops them consistently with 3"loads.copper plated shot.


actually i mostly use a 30 gram load of 5,s or 6,s for the first couple in the mag the 3 inchers are mainly there for flaring geese but they handle flaring parries just as well as long as they,re out a bit. :Thumbsup:

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## kotuku

oops you'd think id have got it right shootin with him as much as i do! apologies squire.

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