# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Deer Caliber + Ammo Cost

## MattyP

Hi all,

Loving my 22lr but am already researching bigger calibres for a few months down the track or so. What are peoples thoughts on the .270 Win?

So far from the reading i've done i'm liking the look of the .270 Win and the .300 Win Mag. Was interested in the .243 also but gone off that as i'll probably eventually end up with a .223 or similar so i'd like to go bigger. Are these two options adequate for everything in NZ? There also seems to be a large selection of ammo for these two in the shops, so i'm guessing they're popular choices.

I'd like the ability to be able to take longer shots as I get better (500++ yds), but am also interested in keeping the ammo cost down (relatively). So which would you recommend for a nice flat shooter, the ability to take longer range shots as well as good ammo prices? Also happy to take any other suggestions that'd meet these requirements.

I basically know nothing about reloading so if people could mention reloading costs for their suggestions (if you reload) that'd be useful info. I might be too lazy and stick to factory ammo, but you never know!

Cheers all,
Matt

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## 199p

7mm08 , 270, 308 will be fine

Don't worry about shooting distance yet that's your excuse to buy another bigger gun

7mm rem mag, 300 wsm etc 

then when you want to shoot further you got an excuse to buy another gun 

338rum, 338 edge, 338 lapua 

Then you want to shoot bunnies further away and you have an excuse to buy another gun

.223, 204r, 22-250

then ducks yet another excuse to buy another gun 

12ga, 20g 

Then you need a bigger gun safe  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Dougie

Hey Matt,

Where are you in the country, mate?

It's exciting looking into a deer rifle, good on you for researching. My advice would be to just get into it mate. I'm loving my .260 but would definitely not recommend it if you are after cheap off the shelf. 

In saying that though, I was talking to a good honest (I hope!) guy in the know the other day and he made a good point - how many times will you be shooting deer each year? Realistically, maybe four times? (FYI bambi that'd be great, four times a year, you're not holding up your end of the deal!) so in comparison to the money you might dump into a hunt like time off work, gas, accommodation, clothing, gear...your ammo isn't really looking too expensive now is it! And wouldn't you want the most effective bullet doing the job for you?

That's how I'm justifying my calibre anyway  :Wink: 

There are a lot of good buggers on here and you might just find someone in your area that will teach and show you some reloading stuff. If you're anything like me, getting in there and carrying out your own reloading is the way to learn it, not just reading it off a computer screen.

Also - what do you like? Have you had the opportunity to test out and shoot some of those calibres? What about makes, have you held and shot a make that you really loved?

Good luck, I can't wait to see your new big gun safe and all the new rifles!!!!!  :Thumbsup:

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## Neckshot

6.5 I a great size for hunting IMO but you are about to be bombarded with every calibre and some you have never herd of on here.So maybe just get the best deal at the gun shop you buy from and go and learn more about finding deer than what you need to shoot the buggers because a rifle cant find deer for you no mater how exspensive or popular it is and when you put an animal on the ground for the first time the  calibre and make of your rifle will not even enter your mind., just my 2.60 dollars of advice.And welcome to the hunting game.

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## Barefoot

If the 270 spins your wheels then buy in the knowledge that it will kill everything in this country  :Thumbsup: 
300 win mag is expensive overkill.

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## SlimySquirrel

Mate remember that practise is important...

You want to be able to place your shot without a flinch that can sometimes come from the big boys when you are not used to it.

Your looking the right way, the .270 is enough but some say they kick harder than a .308 and the .308 is well priced and hits hard too.

Either one is suitable and you want something that you can practise with whilst not burning a hole in your wallet so you can know you will be on the money when its time to shoot.

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## mikee

> 7mm08 , 270, 308 will be fine
> 
> Don't worry about shooting distance yet that's your excuse to buy another bigger gun
> 
> 7mm rem mag, 300 wsm etc 
> 
> then when you want to shoot further you got an excuse to buy another gun 
> 
> 338rum, 338 edge, 338 lapua 
> ...


and for people like Kiwi Greg the next step  up is a bloody tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ammo is the cheapest part of the exercise compare to all the other costs, buy the caliber that you think you want, realistically feeding it wont be an issue unless you are shooting more than a packet a week.
I started a long time ago with a brand new Sako 270, Sold it for a 26 inch barreled 25/06 (much better) sold that for a 7-08 in 1995. Sold that to buy a pistol (well 1/4 of one really) and so it goes on. If I were to buy something other than a 223 then i would be buying another 25/06 the only one I wish I had kept.  :Sad: 

One last thing, Go for a common as mud everyone has it type of calibre then you can get ammo at nearly any chemist.  Shooting a "490 Super Rooter Do Hickey" is all very well till you run out of ammo on a hunt

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## Toby

Sounds like  .308 would be good for you. Cheap as ammo you can practise with alot then buy better stuff for the acutal hunting.

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## SlimySquirrel

Hahaha..... Super doo Hickey.... Hahahahaa.....

Thought they killed everything all the time no matter where you shoot it?!

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## MattyP

> Hey Matt,
> 
> Where are you in the country, mate?
> 
> Also - what do you like? Have you had the opportunity to test out and shoot some of those calibres? What about makes, have you held and shot a make that you really loved?
> 
> Good luck, I can't wait to see your new big gun safe and all the new rifles!!!!!


Hey Dougie. Live in Christchurch. Spend most of my time working in Aus. Back about 10 days a mth for my R&R.

Most I've shot is a 223. Only just gotten into shooting a month ago and got a 10/22. Love it.

I'm one to research a lot and crunch all the numbers. Then after I'm set on a caliber it'll be whatever feels right in the shop as long as all the reviews, etc, of whatever it is are good!

I know what you're saying about usage but reason I consider cost is that I just love shooting. Would like to be able to practice heaps and just go out and shoot hundred or so shots at paper without it costing an arm and a leg, haha. Although I guess that's what .22's are for!

What sort of range could I expect from a .270 Win?

Mikee, what'd you like about the 25/06 over the .270? 

7mm08 seems to be damn popular in NZ, can someone run me through why?

Cheers all for the responses.

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## Gibo

> 7mm08 seems to be damn popular in NZ, can someone run me through why? 
> Cheers all for the responses.


Cause theres lots of Aucklanders in New Zealand.  :Psmiley:

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## mikee

I loved the 25/06 cause 

a) didn't boot too much
b) was flat shooting
c) shot my very first chamois with it at over 500 yards (I have the video to prove it, so there)
d) everything I pointed it at stayed dead
e) It was a good all rounder for me when I  was living in Canterbury. 
f) It was the only gun I owned at the time and most likely this is the reason why it gave me confidence, I simply used it fro everything from possums to ..........................

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## Savage1

If you plan on shooting a lot then .308 as the ammo is cheap and it will knock over anything in NZ.

If you do really plan on going 500yd+ then sell the .308 and start looking at 300 win mag and 7mm rem mag etc, but remember that the ammo is pricey, they burn barrels and to make the most of them you will need a pricey scope. They're also pretty overkill for NZ at normal ranges.

Don't get tied up with "flat shooting", they're all similar out to 400 and past that you need to be dialing/compensating anyway.

That's just my opinion, you'll find plenty more on here.

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## SlimySquirrel

The 25-06 is very popular in Aus, I'm not sure why but a few of the guys I shoot with in Aus reckon its a great all rounder.

As said, she shoots flat and hits nice and hard... But like mentioned before, confidence in your ability to place your shots is key. If you are looking over the 500 yd range then you are gonna need a decent optic and whilst they are not cheap if you buy something decent then you only cry once. 

There is no such thing as the "do it all" rifle so figure out what you'll be doing most and configure it to that.

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## Eion

> 7mm08 seems to be damn popular in NZ, can someone run me through why?
> 
> Cheers all for the responses.


7mm08 and .270 are close enough to the same thing (.270 slightly faster/harder/flatter) only differences comes in when reloading. The 7mm08 has better pill selection. You can't go wrong with either, using these cartridges really the weakest link is going to be the shooter for hunting in NZ.

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## Cartman

For me 270s kick to much for what they are but plenty of people use them successfully and 500 yards is a fair range for the 270. Any caliber above 243 will do what you want id look at the 308 for cheapness of ammo , you will find cheaper ammo for the 308 than any other center fire except 223. Its c apable out to and past 500 has massive pill selection and inherently accurate.

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## Eion

Have a gander at this if recoil is decider for you. Rifle Recoil Table

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## MattyP

> Have a gander at this if recoil is decider for you. Rifle Recoil Table


Haha, I have several of his tables open right now including that one! I love that site, loads of info. He generally recommends below 20ftlb's for recoil (which the 300 win mag is NOT). The 7mm08 and 25/06 are considerably less kick than the 308 and 270.

I have no basis for comparison though as a 223 is a measly 3ftlb's.

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## camo wsm

Considered a .260? Either standard or AI but would need to reload for it that's all mate
Otherwise 7-08 would be cheap to run compared to a win mag

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## MattyP

> Considered a .260? Either standard or AI but would need to reload for it that's all mate
> Otherwise 7-08 would be cheap to run compared to a win mag


No, I haven't looked at .260's as i'm not sure if I can be bothered with the whole reloading thing. It does sound interesting but time is a factor for me and i'd prefer to be out there when i've got it. So I need to go for something with loads of factory stuff to start with and then time will tell with the reloading.

How popular are .270's compared to 308's, 7mm08's and 25/06's? Could someone rank them in order of popularity in NZ for me? Guessing 308 at the top.

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## Toby

I noticed you have a liking for .270. It'll do what you want as will many other calibers. But for the amount of shooting you say you want to do and being cheap .308 is pretty much the best way to go. It'll do whatever a .270 will. (if not better) had to add that  :Psmiley: 

A tikma will be fine and try get he best scope you can. Dont read too much into shit and just get out and shoot shit. Its he best way to learn

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## Druid

All the common cartridges will do more than you can unless you get out and practice a lot , so  to start with work on ammo price more than anything else , . Go to gun City and see what they have in bulk for a reasonable price  , then look at good rifles and top of the line scopes then get back to the forum with your ideas .
I'd recommend 308 , cheap ammo is available , it is mild recoiling even in a light rifle , works well in short barrels if you are going to fit a suppressor , it is a highly developed round that can kill deer further than most people can see them .

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## SlimySquirrel

Very valid point from Druid.

The suppressor option reduces recoil and saves your ears.

Don't be scared of a 308 they are popular for a reason... DPT do have tremendous prices on their cans right now too.

I used a very nice 300wm with a muzzle brake and it was very pleasant (with ear protection) so recoil can be managed. Just be sure to get some decent advice on body position and shoot from a few varying positions so you know what its gonna feel like when you are in the field.

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## MattyP

> I noticed you have a liking for .270. It'll do what you want as will many other calibers. But for the amount of shooting you say you want to do and being cheap .308 is pretty much the best way to go. It'll do whatever a .270 will. (if not better) had to add that 
> 
> A tikma will be fine and try get he best scope you can. Dont read too much into shit and just get out and shoot shit. Its he best way to learn


I've been looking at - www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_​table.htm 

What appeals to me about the .270 is how well it seems to perform on tables like that. Seems like it's quite a bit of a flatter shooter than the 308? But I have noticed the massive amount of ammo available for 308 and if the ammo is noticeably cheaper then that'd be fine too.

I'll always read heaps into everything because as mentioned I work away for 20 days a month and don't have any toys to play with  :Wink: . So for that period I do my reading then for the other 10 I will do my playing, haha.

I like the look of Tikka T3's and Browning X-Bolts so far. Thoughts on these? Not worried about the price difference. If they were the same price and both came in the calibre you wanted, what would yas buy?

Another question - has anyone had any experience with gun city's T3's with full barrel silencers? My 10/22 is one of their FBS and I really like it.

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## GravelBen

Personally I'd buy somewhere other than gun city... their prices tend to be higher than most, and many people (though obviously not everyone or they wouldn't stil be going) have had bad experiences with their service. Maybe a good variety to have a look at though I guess.

Make sure you handle (and if possible cycle the action etc) plenty of options before you decide - most of the mid-range rifles around are accurate and reliable, the key is finding which one fits you well and that you like the feel of. Tikka, Browning, Savage, Remington, Howa, Marlin, Ruger, I could go on... Then you have choices like synthetic/wood/laminate as well, all down to personal preference.

I have a 308 but I'd just as soon have a 7mm08 or whatever if the right rifle came up in that caliber - there isn't really that much real-world difference between them.

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## veitnamcam

Its no secret i love the 308.
It will do what any other non magnum round will do.
Its cheap to run.
Everyone will have ammo for it and not just one or two types.
And it will take you 5000 odd rounds to wear one out.
That's one thing a 25 06 won't do.

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## username

Hi mposkitt I was in your position about 4 years ago and you seem to be about obsessive as me.

From the experience of an obsessive noob if you are looking at charts and you like the 270 then go for it (cal doesn't really matter). Thats how I chose my first hunting rifle (a marlin 270 then I sold that and got a Sako A7 7mmRemMag and have just sold it and brought a Remington  300RUM and it's only a RUM until I re-barrel it to a 338 Edge). But there is a reason everyone is telling you 308 because it fits your requirement perfectly. Don't worry about flat trajectories as long as its accurite and has the killing power when it gets there. Gun City have the cheapest tikkas and Rem spss.

If you are going to hunt the Canterbury tops optics are the most important thing that include Binoculars. I ignored this advice and started with $250 pair of leupolds of binos then a $400 pair of Minox. Still shit now i have $1200 pair of Vortex. 

If you are working in Australia you will probably have a decient budget dont be a tight arse. spend money now so you dont have to replace stuff later.

Tikka or Rem spss $1100 (these rifles have the best after market bit and pieces) - Scope $1200 - Binos - $1200 

This is my experence and opinions

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## Gibo

Ha Ha these threads crack me up. 
Mate buy whatever Cal takes your fancy and put a sweet scope on it. Thats all.

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## username

> Mate buy whatever Cal takes your fancy and put a sweet scope on it. Thats all.


Yip Long story short. Dont think just do.

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## veitnamcam

> Ha Ha these threads crack me up. 
> Mate buy whatever Cal takes your fancy and put a sweet scope on it. Thats all.


While that's good advice the title of the thread is deer cal and ammo cost.
And if wanting to shoot alot barrel life should be considered.

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## Gibo

> While that's good advice the title of the thread is deer cal and ammo cost.
> And if wanting to shoot alot barrel life should be considered.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Well If Mposkitt can wear a barrel out on deer with a common Cal he is the man and must take me to his spot!!  :Thumbsup:

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## Cartman

Doesnt take much range time and goat shooting to wear out a 243 or 25/06. Also chuck hawke is a biased idiot.

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## username

Ok Barrel life is important but who wore out there first new centerfire before they sold it for another i bet not many.

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## gadgetman

I agree with pretty much every reply. For what you are looking at then I'd aim for 308, 708 or 270, any will do. The main thing is something that fits. Flat shooting is not really that important for me, if you want just add a rangefinder to the kit and figure out where pill will land at various ranges. Oh, and you don't have to spend a fortune to get a really good accurate rifle.

Reloading costs me about 95c a round for the 243 or 308, and about 40-45c a round for the 223. I find the reloading quite quick. I'll load up a couple of hundred when I do it, but do most of the case prep in stages. If you want to find out about reloading the Gun City do the reloading course for the handloaders club, but anyone can do it. A good way to see what it's all about.

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## BRADS

> Ok Barrel life is important but who wore out there first new centerfire before they sold it for another i bet not many.


+1 despite what you read on here, there are very few people in Nz who stuff a barrel out hunting.

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## veitnamcam

> +1 despite what you read on here, there are very few people in Nz who stuff a barrel out hunting.


True but he said he would like to shoot off a hundred or so rounds a trip to the range gettin in practice.
That's only 10 trips to the range and a 1000 rounds down the tube.
Which is why i brought up barrel life.

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## tui_man2

100 or so rounds a range trip an a hunting rifle don't go in same sentence you will go away been ripped with your groupings all over the place form heat in the barrel and will teach you nothing, that or you will be there the whole day to do its right and keep it cool.

Get what ever cal takes your fancy been magnum or standard site it in shoot dozen or so then practice while you are there with your 22 you said you have, you will get to know your centre fire better be way cheaper and leave feeling happy with more controlled groups them blasting away

Barrel life is irrelevant you will get over that cal an your first gun and move on to the next before its half rooted

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## Happy

I agree with everyone 
but seriously you will need a .22 or 2 or 3 of them  .17 .223.243 6.5x55 270 308 300 Win mag and a few shoties as well to be truly happy ..  :Thumbsup: 

Then you will need some variations or super duper versions of the above so some doubling up will occur.

Buy a blimmin big safe as its about to start ....

 Bugger forgot doesn't everyone need an AK or AR as well ??

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## BRADS

> True but he said he would like to shoot off a hundred or so rounds a trip to the range gettin in practice.
> That's only 10 trips to the range and a 1000 rounds down the tube.
> Which is why i brought up barrel life.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Yep your right tui sums it up well thow 100 rounds down a hunting tube per range trip? The accuracy will be outstanding :Have A Nice Day: 
I'll say it once VC he
Probably needs a 308 there done.

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## Dougie

Matt I was in position a year or so ago although with potentially a bit more shooting experience (in the field) than you. I lucked out as I didn't have to do the choosing, other people did it for me  :Have A Nice Day: 

In terms of what I do for reloading, I have recently upped my stock to 100 Laupa cases and that is plenty, I'm only reloading 25 rounds at a time and only when I need them. I consider time away with my rifle as valuable experience (not just time at the range.) This last trip for example - I felt very comfortable carrying, manipulating and taking up aim with my rifle on all different slopes, terrain and situations. That was a huge success for me. I know I can shoot, I know my marksmanship principles. I stopped by the NZDA range in Taupo on the way home to blast off a whopping three rounds and I put that down to the pent up frustration of the trip!  :Wink:  What I am trying to say though is that empty cases doesn't necessarily mean experience. So what if you can shoot the bullseye ten times in a row at the range from a nice cushy bench - can you take up aim quickly and accurately when in the field, faced with stress and environmental factors? Think about the flash 4x4 that's never seen mud but has 300,00km of road use. I think I've put 50 rounds through my rifle since I've had it and that is with developing a second load as well. I think if you are planning on just visiting the range with your hunting rifle once a month you might be surprised at how quickly you get bored of just shooting paper and listening to the *cha-ching!* each ejected case makes!

Anyway what happened to me when I got my first rifle is that I went out tested a lot of different stuff through friends, retailers and private sellers. I'm big on the whole _return it in a better condition than you were giving it_ so I've never had any problems there. Some people say that I've had those situations because I have tits but hey maybe it's also because I have the balls to ask for things! The helpful sods on here put together a great .260 for me and I was incredibly happy and relieved to find that the weight, stock and feel of her suit me perfectly. I hope you can find the same thing.


...sorry for rambling, I am just happy and content having finished my brunch of eggs on toast with back steaks  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:   :Thumbsup:

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## 308

Dougie is right that in the field you will need to be ready to shoot quickly and in a variety of uncomfortable positions

A 270 is a good calibre - keep some dollars in ya budget to suppress it if the kick gives you a flinch. Check factory ammo prices for 270 vs 308 if the price diff is a problem then consider a 308 or an AK47 shortie round - they're cheap as.

A mate I shoot with has a 270 and at the end of the day the calibre used is one small factor. I think that the biggest factor is the operator's familiarity with their own gear, the terrain and the animals they're after.

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## Dougie

> I think that the biggest factor is the operator's familiarity with their own gear, the terrain and the animals they're after.


Boosh, that's what I was trying to say  :Have A Nice Day: 

Matt - don't read my novel, just read that!

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## MattyP

Thanks all for all of the advice. 308 is coming through pretty strongly and if it's all much of a muchness then i'll go with the cheaper ammo so that sounds good.

Would anyone care to compare Tikka T3's and Browning X-Bolts  :Wink: ? May be a bit controversial i'm sure. Are most using T3's?

Gadgetman - thanks for that reloading cost comparison!

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## BRADS

> Thanks all for all of the advice. 308 is coming through pretty strongly and if it's all much of a muchness then i'll go with the cheaper ammo so that sounds good.
> 
> Would anyone care to compare Tikka T3's and Browning X-Bolts ? May be a bit controversial i'm sure. Are most using T3's?
> 
> Gadgetman - thanks for that reloading cost comparison!


Tikka 308 done boom end of thread :Have A Nice Day: 
Should be a few of the around :Have A Nice Day:

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## Gibo

> Tikka 308 done boom end of thread
> Should be a few of the around


Solid,  cant go wrong!

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## Spudattack

Buy whichever one YOU like, any rifle over $800 will be fine, all about YOUR personal preference. 

Tikkas are good rifles, if you looking to spend X-Bolt money have a look at the CZ550 and Winchester Model 70 too, get a rifle that fits and it will be nicer to shoot!

Let us know what you get!

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## 300winmag

Mr Poskitt,
As Username and Brads, 
Username hit the nail on the head, you working in Aust on some good coin don't worry about ammo cost.
Brads reckons a 308, get one, it kills and dead is dead and in most places you won't be popping stuff at long distance and if you do just buy a LR rifle. You just got a 22 and in a very short time you want a 223 and maybe a 308, all a month a part so coin isn't a problem and you are worried about ammo costs, that will be the least of your problems, I suspect hiding all this cool stuff from Mum will be the problem. :Thumbsup:

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## username

> Thanks all for all of the advice. 308 is coming through pretty strongly and if it's all much of a muchness then i'll go with the cheaper ammo so that sounds good.
> 
> Would anyone care to compare Tikka T3's and Browning X-Bolts ? May be a bit controversial i'm sure. Are most using T3's?
> 
> Gadgetman - thanks for that reloading cost comparison!


You have the cal now go into a gun shop and look at them and caress them and hold them and play with them ooooo. 
Talk to the staff they should have good product knowledge.

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## SlimySquirrel

If you'll be walking lots the t3 hunter with the fluted barrel sure looks nice.... Remember weight is a factor if you plan on doing long stalks. I took my Varmint barrel howa once on a deer stalk.... That's not happening again.

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## Toby

69 likes haha

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## veitnamcam

> If you'll be walking lots the t3 hunter with the fluted barrel sure looks nice.... Remember weight is a factor if you plan on doing long stalks. I took my Varmint barrel howa once on a deer stalk.... That's not happening again.


Ha ha i did the same a while ago. On the drive up i was thinking i must need my head read lol.
It actually wasn't too bad it was just the topheavyness on the sling was a pain .

While weight is a consideration of course i wouldn't/dont worry about it too much on my rifle. A pound is neither here nor there. Its the difference of carrying two venison shanks back out :Grin: 

I find a bit of weight in the rifle makes it easyer to shoot both off the bench and in the field, especially in the field.

T3 is a good rifle to be sure, almost certain to get an accurate one but they only have a 3 shot single stack mag. You can get a 5 shot mag but it sticks out and my personal opinion is it ruins a nice hunting rifle.

Weather a 3 shot mag is an issue for you and the type of hunting you plan to do is up to you.


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## Happy

I have owned thre T 3 s  Lites This may start an argument but recoils been a problem on them all. Soft well what ever but gave each a good go and they were all too light  Had 308 270 WSM  and the keeper 300 win mag which has suppressor trigger job B + C stock  and load development  so it's no longer lite  Now have heavy Sako 308 awesome gun Heavy 300 win mag its awesome accurate some gun its killed at 450 mtrs and now I d rather carry a heavyish gun than a light one . Been thru lots of guns and finally figured out what works for me   Starting out it would be 308 wooden stock Vx3 3x ? X 40. Just my experience I think that was a 3x9 actually but unsure Good sling combat type jacket with your gear and good rain coat  Get walkin and enjoy the weight then you shoot awesome (well I have on occasion) 
Just what I have  tried over last few years. Heavy gun big deal walk slower I was told if you are pouring off sweat you are hunting too fast and I have seen deer that the leader walked past Hunting to me is a cruise not a race but I m really lazy  :Wink: 
Cheers Happy

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## Cartman

Stop fukin about and buy that kimber for sale on this forum

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## MattyP

> Mr Poskitt,
> As Username and Brads, 
> Username hit the nail on the head, you working in Aust on some good coin don't worry about ammo cost.
> Brads reckons a 308, get one, it kills and dead is dead and in most places you won't be popping stuff at long distance and if you do just buy a LR rifle. You just got a 22 and in a very short time you want a 223 and maybe a 308, all a month a part so coin isn't a problem and you are worried about ammo costs, that will be the least of your problems, I suspect hiding all this cool stuff from Mum will be the problem.


Mr Poskitt #2,

At this stage i'm just researching  :Wink: . My 22 will keep me happy for the rest of the year - it's great! But I want to be prepared for what I want so that I can grab it when the x-mas sales are on. For now I will skip the mid calibers and just have my 22 and get something able to kill everything else.

I won't be hiding them! Like you say, i'm earning the good coin so i'm allowed the odd toy  :Psmiley: . It's not that I worry about ammo costs but I do like efficiency! As long as it can do what I want, hah.

I'll have a look at some on my next break when I go to pick up some more ammo. Will try not to walk out with anything.

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## Happy

> Stop fukin about and buy that kimber for sale on this forum


Hope you not talkin to me VC has me in enuff trouble already he he   Now where is that ad ??

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## Toby

Tikka 308 cal. model T3 lite stainless + Leupold | Trade Me

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## jakewire

Since your not a reloader and so long as your not a north Island bush hunting  hobbit, I'd go for your  270.
If you are a bit dodgy about the recoil a decent pad for around 80$ will fix that.

With a suitable 130gr bullet it's fast it's flat and will do everything you wish.
 Alternatively if your going to go live in fiordland  then run a 150gr bullet or go buy a 30 06.

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## Neckshot

> Since your not a reloader and so long as your not a north Island bush hunting  hobbit, I'd go for your  270.
> If you are a bit dodgy about the recoil a decent pad for around 80$ will fix that.
> 
> With a suitable 130gr bullet it's fast it's flat and will do everything you wish.
>  Alternatively if your going to go live in fiordland  then run a 150gr bullet or go buy a 30 06.


A north Island bush hunting hobbit!!!! Last time I checked my wai wai's are clean shaven to avoid been called that! that way im easily told apart from the web footed south islanders :Grin:

----------


## 6MMBR

I think you should try every caliber your interested in. But in different set ups.
much better then reading about it or others personal opinions.
Don't be scared to try older guns as well. 
Its not hard to re barrel a rifle...most of the time they will out shoot the shit on the market today.
Its not about the caliber.
You want to be comfortable with your walking stick  :Pacman:

----------


## username

> Since your not a reloader and so long as your not a north Island bush hunting  hobbit, I'd go for your  270.
> If you are a bit dodgy about the recoil a decent pad for around 80$ will fix that.
> 
> With a suitable 130gr bullet it's fast it's flat and will do everything you wish.
>  Alternatively if your going to go live in fiordland  then run a 150gr bullet or go buy a 30 06.


Q: why does flat trajectory matter? Is it less affected by the wind?

----------


## Gibo

> Q: why does flat trajectory matter? Is it less affected by the wind?


Bit high you will get her forehead, bit low her neck, flat well your on the money! :Pacman:

----------


## username

Ha

----------


## 300winmag

Matt,
I have in the way of T3's
1 x 223
1 x 308
2 x 300wm
I use box ammo on the 223 & 308, a mixture of box & reloads on the 300's
I took the 308 & 300wm lite to aussie in August, dropping pigs, horse's & donkeys from 30yds - 200 odd yards and dead is dead, they couldn't tell the
 difference between calibres.
I was undertaking a lot of rapid fire scenarios on mobs of animals, you won't have that here, the lites have some recoil so all mine have been tamed with Limbsavers, the 300's have breaks or suppressors fitted. The 300 I took to aussie had a break and shot perfecty, it shot a heap of animals & it wasn't until I was cleaning it to pack away on my return to NZ that I noticed the scope rail was loose, quite a bit I must say. I should have loctited the 4 crub screws in. They couldn't handle the rapid fire of 2 x 10 round mags x 20 changes. When I got home I removed the scope & torqued up the screws & one snapped so I need to carefully drill & remove it.

----------


## MattyP

> Matt,
> I have in the way of T3's
> 1 x 223
> 1 x 308
> 2 x 300wm
> I use box ammo on the 223 & 308, a mixture of box & reloads on the 300's
> I took the 308 & 300wm lite to aussie in August, dropping pigs, horse's & donkeys from 30yds - 200 odd yards and dead is dead, they couldn't tell the
>  difference between calibres.
> I was undertaking a lot of rapid fire scenarios on mobs of animals, you won't have that here, the lites have some recoil so all mine have been tamed with Limbsavers, the 300's have breaks or suppressors fitted. The 300 I took to aussie had a break and shot perfecty, it shot a heap of animals & it wasn't until I was cleaning it to pack away on my return to NZ that I noticed the scope rail was loose, quite a bit I must say. I should have loctited the 4 crub screws in. They couldn't handle the rapid fire of 2 x 10 round mags x 20 changes. When I got home I removed the scope & torqued up the screws & one snapped so I need to carefully drill & remove it.


Hey Tim,

What sort of ammo do you shoot with your 308? What's it cost you per round?

Also, how much difference would you say suppressors make to the recoil of something like a 300wm? And to your 308.

Surprising you hit anything with a loose rail!

----------


## 300winmag

> Hey Tim,
> 
> What sort of ammo do you shoot with your 308? What's it cost you per round? *Federal Blue box 150gr and Hornady 150gr SST & 168gr Amax approx. $60 per box/20*
> 
> Also, how much difference would you say suppressors make to the recoil of something like a 300wm? *Heaps, I like shooting it with the break, I can shoot it all day long no worries and that with a bum shoulder. Suppressors are illegal in Aust so put a break on it.*
> And to your 308. *The 308 isn't suppressed yet but don't have a problem shooting it repeatedly.*
> 
> Surprising you hit anything with a loose rail!


 * Good skills, towards the end of my trip it was all close range stuff, I didn't suspect anything as animals were dropping where I had pointed, wasn't until I was packing up that I noticed it was loose.*

*If I was to take a trip into the Kawekas/Kaimanawas tops It would be a toss up between the Finnlight 7-08 or the 300wm with suppressor, the last couple of trips I did quite nicely with the 300wm*

----------


## MattyP

Name change~

Thanks Gimp!

So i'm still liking the look of a 270 but now the 308 also due to popularity and ammo.

Another question - how much would people say a good suppressor lessens recoil? 20%? 50%?

Cheers,
Matt

----------


## SlimySquirrel

Enough to make it comfortable!

Don't be scared of a suppressed rifle.. makes the world of difference.

----------


## veitnamcam

I haven't had a lot of suppressors but will say the perceived recoil reduction is more than the actual reduction.
Ie most of what makes people flinch is the farkin great BOOM! Rather than actual recoil. At least in any standard cal anyway.
Super wizemboomer calibers in a light rifle a can or break is almost mandatory even if your a hard man it will help you spot your shots.
Always wear ear protection for any range work to protect your hearing and lessen the chance of developing a flinch.

My main hunting rifle will never wear a suppressor but that is my personal preference, others won't own one without a suppressor.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## gadgetman

When you're in town feel free to get hold of me and try the 308 at the range suppressed and not to see what you think. I hunt and shoot with all my rifles suppressed. They were nice enough to shoot unsuppressed, but so much nicer suppressed. I'm sold on quiet.

I would admit to having a bit of trouble with the suppressed rifle to start with. With ear muffs on I pulled the trigger on a roo with the suppressed 243, misfired so I started pulling the rifle apart on the back of the truck. Everyone else questions what I'm doing with the rifle, so explain it didn't fire. Then I was pointed in the direction of one expired roo.

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## username

I think the suppressor on the 270 would be magnum size. Bigger than a 308 one. Something to think about. I had one on my 270 and it made the rifle very top heavy and a pain in the arse to carry on a sling. Get ear plugs and a muzzle brake.

----------


## username

I think the suppressor on the 270 would be magnum size. Bigger than a 308 one. Something to think about. I had one on my 270 and it made the rifle very top heavy and a pain in the arse to carry on a sling. Get ear plugs and a muzzle brake.

----------


## username

Woops

----------


## SlimySquirrel

> When you're in town feel free to get hold of me and try the 308 at the range suppressed and not to see what you think. I hunt and shoot with all my rifles suppressed. They were nice enough to shoot unsuppressed, but so much nicer suppressed. I'm sold on quiet.
> 
> I would admit to having a bit of trouble with the suppressed rifle to start with. With ear muffs on I pulled the trigger on a roo with the suppressed 243, misfired so I started pulling the rifle apart on the back of the truck. Everyone else questions what I'm doing with the rifle, so explain it didn't fire. Then I was pointed in the direction of one expired roo.


Bahahaha....nice work... Ear Muffs and a Can, very very good ear protection...

----------


## MattyP

> When you're in town feel free to get hold of me and try the 308 at the range suppressed and not to see what you think. I hunt and shoot with all my rifles suppressed. They were nice enough to shoot unsuppressed, but so much nicer suppressed. I'm sold on quiet.
> 
> I would admit to having a bit of trouble with the suppressed rifle to start with. With ear muffs on I pulled the trigger on a roo with the suppressed 243, misfired so I started pulling the rifle apart on the back of the truck. Everyone else questions what I'm doing with the rifle, so explain it didn't fire. Then I was pointed in the direction of one expired roo.


That would be awesome Gadgetman. I'll be back in town on Thursday for a while. What range? I was going to go to the NZDA public day on the Saturday and join up. That's hilarious about the 243. I can imagine doing that with my 22 and subs but a 243? Hah!

Suppressors need to be larger on the 270 than the 308? That changes things yet again! Can anybody confirm this? Thanks for the heads up username.

----------


## gadgetman

> That would be awesome Gadgetman. I'll be back in town on Thursday for a while. What range? I was going to go to the NZDA public day on the Saturday and join up. That's hilarious about the 243. I can imagine doing that with my 22 and subs but a 243? Hah!
> 
> Suppressors need to be larger on the 270 than the 308? That changes things yet again! Can anybody confirm this? Thanks for the heads up username.


A standard suppressor is fine on a 270, it is based on the '06 case after all. Gunworks can put a swivel stud on the bottom of the suppressor which helps with balance, the other thing I did with the 223 was to put a stud in the end of the fore end. Also leave the factory stud for a bipod if desired and balance is not too bad.

Will be handloaders for me which is still stuck at just 75m, but will give you a good idea of recoil reduction, etc.

----------


## username

> A standard suppressor is fine on a 270, it is based on the '06 case after all. Gunworks can put a swivel stud on the bottom of the suppressor which helps with balance, the other thing I did with the 223 was to put a stud in the end of the fore end. Also leave the factory stud for a bipod if desired and balance is not too bad.
> 
> Will be handloaders for me which is still stuck at just 75m, but will give you a good idea of recoil reduction, etc.


My bad thought the 270  and 30-06 needed a bigger one. 

Its good to get advice but a lot of this is personal preference  and you will only know if you try.

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## SlimySquirrel

Some sweet deals on TM too... Remmy 700 308 .... I think its calling your name Matt.... lol

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## Spudattack

Sako model 75 hunter , 308 callibre | Trade Me

Pretty good value! For the money you were talking about spending this would be an awesome rifle.

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## veitnamcam

> Sako model 75 hunter , 308 callibre | Trade Me
> 
> Pretty good value! For the money you were talking about spending this would be an awesome rifle.


+1 Cant go wrong there.

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## PerazziSC3

I think the price of ammo is a bit of a overstated I mean when comparing standard calibres like 308 708 260 270 243 etc decent hunting ammo is about $50 for a box of 20. Sure with a 308 you get the option of buying much cheaper lower quality ammo so thats sweet if you want to go have a blast up.

Basically if you want to shoot high volume get a 308 or get reloading.  If not, ammo price is very much the same.... I think. Haven't actually bought a packet of centre fire ammo for well over a year.

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## MattyP

> Sako model 75 hunter , 308 callibre | Trade Me
> 
> Pretty good value! For the money you were talking about spending this would be an awesome rifle.


Looks good but like i've said i'll be waiting another couple of months probably. Still learning lots with my 22 and want to shoot that loads more before I go buying another rifle! Until then i'll just be researching, looking at them in shops and taking advantage of nice people like Gadgetman  :Wink: .

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## gadgetman

> Looks good but like i've said i'll be waiting another couple of months probably. Still learning lots with my 22 and want to shoot that loads more before I go buying another rifle! Until then i'll just be researching, looking at them in shops and taking advantage of nice people like Gadgetman .


Absolutely. I ended up with something different to what I thought I wanted. Best bet is to annoy the local gun shop and get them to empty the rack onto the counter and play with them all. One or two will light your lights. Then you'll know what you're wanting.

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## MattyP

> Absolutely. I ended up with something different to what I thought I wanted. Best bet is to annoy the local gun shop and get them to empty the rack onto the counter and play with them all. One or two will light your lights. Then you'll know what you're wanting.


Yeah, I will absolutely be doing that. I'm all for reading reviews but in the end it'll probably be whatever feels best in my hands. With my 22 I had everything sussed but then I tried a certain stock and absolutely had to have it. Just that comfortable.

Speaking of which, nobody seems to have many stock options for the other calibers. I guess 22lr is so popular they can afford to have a heap of different ones in stock. Do you generally have to order them in?

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## SlimySquirrel

Ok Matt,

Here you go, this shows the difference in recoil. A .308 being fired with and without can.

Watch the whole video, pretty good really... the Yanks sure have a heap more choice for their $ than we do... Shows what can be expected when sighting in and the difference in Ammo brands. 

Just because it is expensive doesn't always mean your rifle will like it.

Savage Model 10: The 1000 dollar 1000 yard rifle - YouTube

Also, you can see the bullet drop on the .308 if you look when he shoots the Gong you can see how much it drops at 500 yds.

Hope that helps some.

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## MattyP

Thanks Slimy. Really interesting.

Pretty sold on 308 now. How short are people going with their barrels when suppressing? Seen some pretty nifty little ones on other sites but at what point is velocity impacted significantly?

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## gimp

Cut that fucker to 18 inches and never look back.

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## PerazziSC3

mine is just under 18" i would happily go to 16" and the loss wont be that significant.

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## veitnamcam

That first four inches(from 22 to 18) is pretty common amount to cut off, shorter than that would start giving your suppressor a real hard time with high temps and higher muzzle pressures and become almost unusable without the suppressor.

Some of the velocity loss can be gained back and muzzle flash lessened with reloading.

Velocity loss is not linear ie the shorter it gets the more loss per inch.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## MattyP

> That first four inches(from 22 to 18) is pretty common amount to cut off, shorter than that would start giving your suppressor a real hard time with high temps and higher muzzle pressures and become almost unusable without the suppressor.
> 
> Some of the velocity loss can be gained back and muzzle flash lessened with reloading.
> 
> Velocity loss is not linear ie the shorter it gets the more loss per inch.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Good info, cheers. How do the over barrel silencers perform compared to pure extension? Nice and compact would be good if performs well.

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## veitnamcam

Can't comment as i haven't owned one.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Shearer

I have a 16"barrel 308 with a Hardys gen 4 suppressor. It shoot factory 150gn Remington ammo at 2620fps but I am using hand loaded 125gn accubonds at 2990fps. Very handy and accurate enough for 300+m.

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## SlimySquirrel

I have just bought a DPT modular can for my 22-250 as its compact and lightweight. Its probably not as robust as the Greystone over barrel that I was using for my .223 for multiple shot strings but its unlikely that you will be peeling off rapid shots with what you are looking to do. 

The DPT is well made and can be made even more compact for stalking.

There is a thread here somewhere...

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## SlimySquirrel

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...ppressor-6947/

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## Happy

> I have a 16"barrel 308 with a Hardys gen 4 suppressor. It shoot factory 150gn Remington ammo at 2620fps but I am using hand loaded 125gn accubonds at 2990fps. Very handy and accurate enough for 300+m.


What make model of that gun it it if you don't mind?

Cheers Happy

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## MattyP

There seems to be quite a few NZ companies making suppressors. What is considered the "cream of the crop" of these? Without sparking too much debate  :Wink: .

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## SlimySquirrel

> There seems to be quite a few NZ companies making suppressors. What is considered the "cream of the crop" of these? Without sparking too much debate .


It's more relevant to your use... Hardy, Gun Works, Grey Stone, MAE, DPT, Zigiliani all do an excellent product for over barrel ... I've only seen the DPT in the Modular configuration and for Stalking it looks hard to beat due to its ability to be made smaller.

The Over barrel one is the most quiet... But, it's a hot debate and unless you have figures (I'm sure they are out there) then it's hard to tell the difference between the top brands... they are generally heavier though.

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## MattyP

Tried Gadgetmans 308 yesterday with and without gunworks suppressor. I liked! Thx again GM.

Next question - what magnification scopes are you guys using on 308's? I was thinking 3-9x or 4-12x? That'd show a deer up at 500m as if it was only about 50m away. Is this the right type of thinking or should I be looking at more? 

I find I use mostly 2x on my 22 with a 2-7x Redfield. I'd like to keep that low end mag if possible on whatever I get for my 308 as I wouldn't mind blowing a few pests apart up close.

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## GravelBen

Most people use 3-9 for an all-round hunting rifle. Works for me too.

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## veitnamcam

Most of my scoped hunting life has been with either a fixed 4x or a 3-9 vari power.
Relatively recently i went to a 4.5-14x to make it a better allround rifle by extending its range. Fail. 4.5 is just that bit too much in tho bush for quick target acquisition IMHO.

Now run a 2-12x.

But a good quality 3-9 should serve you well.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## MattyP

> Most of my scoped hunting life has been with either a fixed 4x or a 3-9 vari power.
> Relatively recently i went to a 4.5-14x to make it a better allround rifle by extending its range. Fail. 4.5 is just that bit too much in tho bush for quick target acquisition IMHO.
> 
> Now run a 2-12x.
> 
> But a good quality 3-9 should serve you well.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Yeah, that's what I was thinking with going beyond 3x low-end. Even 3x I find much slower than 2x for aquiring a target quickly up close. What 2-12x are you using? I do love 2x, but dunno if it's worth the 2-3 grand that the 2-12x Leupolds seem to go for.

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## gimp

3-9x is some 1990's shit. Stop encouraging lazy manufacturers by buying scopes with 3x zoom ratio. Get 4x zoom ratio at least, it's the year of our lord two thousand and thirteen.

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## veitnamcam

> 3-9x is some 1990's shit. Stop encouraging lazy manufacturers by buying scopes with 3x zoom ratio. Get 4x zoom ratio at least, it's the year of our lord two thousand and thirteen.


Not everyone has a limitless budget Mr gimp.
That is why i explained what i have used with very much success and what i eventually upgraded to.



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## gimp

You can get something with a 4x zoom range on a budget.

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## veitnamcam

> Yeah, that's what I was thinking with going beyond 3x low-end. Even 3x I find much slower than 2x for aquiring a target quickly up close. What 2-12x are you using? I do love 2x, but dunno if it's worth the 2-3 grand that the 2-12x Leupolds seem to go for.


My 4.5-14 is a vx3 and the 2-12 is a vx6
They are pretty pricey but have been given shit and haven't fogged or had any other problems.

Personally i think you need to spend 500 minimum nz retail to get something pretty reliable.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Toby

So now a scope has to have a minimum zoom of 4x to be useable

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## gimp

> So now a scope has to have a minimum zoom of 4x to be useable



Nope but why buy a 3-9x when you can get an equally good 3-12x or 2.5-10x for the same money? It's Progress and if you keep buying old shit it removes the incentive for people to Make Progress

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## Toby

2.5-10 sounds nice.

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## veitnamcam

> Nope but why buy a 3-9x when you can get an equally good 3-12x or 2.5-10x for the same money? It's Progress and if you keep buying old shit it removes the incentive for people to Make Progress


If you can get them for the same money then sure, only seems logical that the older tec would be cheaper but hey i haven't checked.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## MattyP

> My 4.5-14 is a vx3 and the 2-12 is a vx6
> They are pretty pricey but have been given shit and haven't fogged or had any other problems.
> 
> Personally i think you need to spend 500 minimum nz retail to get something pretty reliable.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Yup. Don't really have a budget for this rifle but don't want to spend ridiculous amounts either. However, if it provides a nice allround setup it may save me buying a couple others? Hah. The 2-12x looks damn sweet so I guess I just need to decide if being able to have 2x on it is worth a grand to me. Amazing price difference between the vx3 and vx6. 

Who has the 6's at the best price? I guess it'd be easy to order from the states as there'd be no drama with permits etc like firearms?

----------


## gimp

> If you can get them for the same money then sure, only seems logical that the older tec would be cheaper but hey i haven't checked.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2



Leupold for example love their 3x zoom ratio. 3.5-10?? look at the actual magnification range, it's a 3-9 with a fancier name and a $$ price tag...

----------


## camo wsm

> Yup. Don't really have a budget for this rifle but don't want to spend ridiculous amounts either. However, if it provides a nice allround setup it may save me buying a couple others? Hah. The 2-12x looks damn sweet so I guess I just need to decide if being able to have 2x on it is worth a grand to me. Amazing price difference between the vx3 and vx6. 
> 
> Who has the 6's at the best price? I guess it'd be easy to order from the states as there'd be no drama with permits etc like firearms?


hunting and fishing had the vx6 3-18 for $1599 in its latest catalogue, not sure of the 2-12 price but cant imagine it being more expensive.

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## 300winmag

My 308 has a VX3 4.5x14x40
It's a nice scope but wish I had got the 50mm

Tell you what I can sell it to you at a good price and I'll go off and get the 50mm

Remember - Buy once, Cry once. :Oh Noes:

----------


## 308

Hey Gimp, when you say- "equally good 3-12x or 2.5-10x for the same money" - what sort of gear are you talking about?
I'll be in the market for a scope in a few months and would like to know what you reckon is good

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## veitnamcam

> My 308 has a VX3 4.5x14x40
> It's a nice scope but wish I had got the 50mm
> 
> Tell you what I can sell it to you at a good price and I'll go off and get the 50mm
> 
> Remember - Buy once, Cry once.


I got the 50 with side parralax and wish i had got the 40 lol.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## gimp

> Hey Gimp, when you say- "equally good 3-12x or 2.5-10x for the same money" - what sort of gear are you talking about?
> I'll be in the market for a scope in a few months and would like to know what you reckon is good


I'd get a Nikon or something but gonna be honest it's been a while since I considered that end of the market

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## mikee

> I got the 50 with side parralax and wish i had got the 40 lol.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2



I have one of those but its loand to someone else at the moment, at least i think it was a loan
 Found the 1.5-5 Burris Euro Diamond I also have to be a better scope optically and better eye relief (both compared on 5x)

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## PerazziSC3

i have a 2-7 burris on the 308 which replaced a 1.2- 4. Its awesome and are priced very well, can probably get one for $400NZD from states. 2-12 vx6 would definitely be my ideal choice if money wasn't an issue.

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## Cartman

4x or better is only new tech for leupold.  Everyone else has had option on 4x ratio for a loooong time even nikko sterling haha. Should be able to pick up a bushnell 4200 2.5-10 for under 500 they are a bloody good scope. Nikon is another good option if you hunt around you could get a weaver supeslam 2-10x42 for the same.

----------


## 300winmag

> I got the 50 with side parralax and wish i had got the 40 lol.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2



In for a swap if your's is newish???

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## veitnamcam

> In for a swap if your's is newish???


Na it suits the 223 heavy varmint its on now, was just a bit bulky and bit too much bottom end on my main hunting rifle.

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## Maca49

Or if all else fails, PM Happy job done, same day MattyP no sweat

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## GravelBen

> Nope but why buy a 3-9x when you can get an equally good 3-12x or 2.5-10x for the same money?


For the same money you will generally get better optical quality for a lower zoom ratio, its the same with camera lenses. Want to make more complex optics of the same quality, it will cost more (and they will probably be heavier).

If you know of some exceptions to that I'd be interested to know though, I'll be putting a new scope of the 223 before too long...

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## MattyP

> Or if all else fails, PM Happy job done, same day MattyP no sweat


? Happy a retailer~?

2-10 or 2-12 sounds about perfect to me. $1649 for the Lupold vx6 2-12x42 from Gun City...hah. I'll look at overseas prices. How's the bushnell hold up against the Leupold? Not as good obviously but at 1/3 the price if you reckon $500 then that's impressive. I liked the 3-9 Bushnell I was looking at for my 22. Was about $400 I think.

Tim, you want the 50mm for low light or...?

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## Cartman

Cant comment on the vx6 but the bushnell 4200s are on par with vx3 glass.

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## MattyP

> I got the 50 with side parralax and wish i had got the 40 lol.
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


Speaking of parallax...worth it or no? Some people swear by it and others seem to hate it.

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## veitnamcam

Probably not for hunting

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## SlimySquirrel

... Matty, its a funny one. 
See, I love my side focus as I do mainly open plain hunting and have time to adjust.

You may want to forgo this as you are bush hunting? But you mention 500yd shots.. I would get something based on what you will be doing "most" and gear up for that.  I have a 3-9*50 for my bush hunting.

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## Proudkiwi

Buy the March 2.5-25 in the For Sale section. Its a steal at $2k

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## 300winmag

FOV

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## MattyP

> ... Matty, its a funny one. 
> See, I love my side focus as I do mainly open plain hunting and have time to adjust.
> 
> You may want to forgo this as you are bush hunting? But you mention 500yd shots.. I would get something based on what you will be doing "most" and gear up for that.  I have a 3-9*50 for my bush hunting.


Not necessarily bush hunting. Can't really be bothered with that. But, yeah, I'd like to use it from anywhere from 50m to 500m. So would you suggest AO for that or not? Want an all rounder.

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## Gunzrrr

For one calibre to do a lot of different forms of stalking/hunting I would go with what a mate told me ... 
North Island >> .308
South Island >> .270
If you come from Ponsonby >> 7-08

Spend as much as you possibly can ... you only need one rifle for life. Spend around 60% on the rifle, therefore 40% on the scope. Sako are good ... Sauer are the bomb! Keep an eye out on trademe.

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## MattyP

> For one calibre to do a lot of different forms of stalking/hunting I would go with what a mate told me ... 
> North Island >> .308
> South Island >> .270
> If you come from Ponsonby >> 7-08
> 
> Spend as much as you possibly can ... you only need one rifle for life. Spend around 60% on the rifle, therefore 40% on the scope. Sako are good ... Sauer are the bomb! Keep an eye out on trademe.


270 was my original pick! Why does your mate say 270 for south island? Longer range tops shots or....?

Went and played with a few rifles in shops today. Tikka T3's, a Browning X-bolt and a Sako A7. Out of them all I far preferred the X-bolt actually. 

Magazines: Extra round in the mag versus the other two + the mag sits flush so the X-bolt wins that one. I did like the feature on the A7 where you need to press up as well to release the mag though. At first I thought why bother, but those mags are expensive so a smart feature to prevent losing one.

Bolts: I liked the bolt the most on the Browning too, the half cock is really...really good. The half cock on the A7 was so easy to go right past for an amateur like me...although I guess you could get used to it. Didn't seem to compete though.

Triggers: The T3 and Sako won here, they were lighter but it was close. Easily fixed with a trigger job I'm told.

Safety's: X-bolt again. Love the safety and the firing indicator. Well located and idiot proof. I also liked the feature of being able to leave the safety on and unlock the bolt to unload, etc.

Stocks: The T3 got hammered here by the other two. X-bolt and A7 both felt great and I especially liked the X-bolts recoil pad - very soft.

So all up it was quite close between Sako and Browning but I liked the X-bolt best. The T3's do really well considering the others are about 50% more expensive. Anyway, just my opinion - I'm sure there's plenty of Sako/Tikka fans!

When I'm back next I'll compare some scopes. So far I'm leaning towards the Leupold VX-6 2-12x but I'll try it alongside the 3-18x and some lower end scopes to see just how bad I want one of those VX-6's.

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## username

Xbolt with vx6 is a primo set up!!! Do it!

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## veitnamcam

Cant go wrong with that set up.

But a A7 is hardly a Sako. :Sad:

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## Proudkiwi

The X-bolt is very nicely finished but they have been hit or miss when it comes to accuracy. Make sure the shop lets you shoot it before you buy it. If it shoots good then its a FAR better option than the T3 and A7 which are actualy massive heaps of shit!

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## Dino

Buy once cry once...Finlight!

Cheers

Dino

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## Gunzrrr

Hi Matty - there is only one way I respond to this question ... and you might've seen it before ...

For one calibre to do a lot of different forms of deer hunting I would go with what a mate told me ... 
 North Island >> .308
 South Island >> .270
 If you come from Ponsonby >> 7-08

I have a .308 (& .243 for deer) and I would happily own any/all three of the above. Spend as much as you possibly can ... you only need one rifle for life. Spend around 60% on the rifle, therefore 40% on the scope. Sako are good ... Sauer are the bomb! Keep an eye out on trademe.  Keep safe in the hills!

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## Gunzrrr

> Buy once cry once...Finlight!
> Cheers
> Dino


Dino - have your rubber grip inserts peeled yet? I upgraded my Finnlight for a Sauer as it annoyed the hell out of me with the grips peeling off. My Beretta Xtrema has the same style inserts & they are going the same way.

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## Dino

lol...Actually a confession

I endd up with a Howa, chopped to 18 inches and supressed, replaced the hougue with a STUG carbon fibre in 75 shape so ended up with a cheap finnlight, kinda! Rifle $800, stock $600 supressor $500

The action on the Sako is quiet a bit nicer but my howa shoots friggin good, it is a good weight and ended up really well balanced, a real pleasure to handle and shoot.

I have been keeping an eye out for a 75 finnlight, if I see one at the right price I could easily be tempted.

Cheers

Dino

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## MattyP

Might have to give the finnlights a try too then! You reckon try get them to let me shoot the X-bolt even with the 1 MOA accuracy guarantee?

That guarantee is what made me look at the T3, A7 and X-bolt. They all have it to varying degrees. Don't wanna fork out 3-5k on rifle/scope/silencer and it not shoot straight!

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## GravelBen

1 MOA guarantees are pretty much just a marketing gimmick IMO... most modern rifles are capable of shooting sub-MOA with ammo they like.

What they're really saying is 'we guarantee that our rifles will shoot about as well as everybody elses', but that doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

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## gadgetman

> 1 MOA guarantees are pretty much just a marketing gimmick IMO... most modern rifles are capable of shooting sub-MOA with ammo they like.
> 
> What they're really saying is 'we guarantee that our rifles will shoot about as well as everybody elses', but that doesn't have quite the same ring to it.


+1

And you shot less than MOA with TR's rifle the other day.

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## MattyP

> +1
> 
> And you shot less than MOA with TR's rifle the other day.


True, that thing is crazy - even I put two through the same hole! Be very pleased if anything I got shot near as well.

I realize the 1 MOA guarantees are a bit of a gimmick but it does provide a level of reassurance that I would be within my rights to take it back if I forked out and got a dud.

Will try and get them to let me shoot whatever I want to buy. How common is this request these days? Seems like they'd have to go to a range with me out of work hours...but I guess if they want to make a few grand it's worth their while!

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## gadgetman

I know GC's policy is that you have to pay for it first. I'm pretty sure that the Tikka guarantee was basically that the rifle would shoot sub MOA at the factory with the factories load, either way you'd likely be had pushed to get that honoured in my opinion.

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## MattyP

Who's running finnlites? All for spending the few hundy more for the X-bolt over a T3, but an 85 finnlight is nearly twice the price of an X-bolt! I'll have a look but that'd be a tough sell I'm pretty sure, haha.

Probably be sorting this next time I'm back in NZ (late Oct). It can be my 30th badly present to myself. Yeah, that's how I'll justify it.

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## Spudattack

CZ 550 Lux .270 Win | CZ550LUX270 | Kilwell Sports Ltd

Have a look at one of these too!  :Wink:

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## Konev

went for a A7 over a 85, i could see nothing that justified the 85s 1k markup over a A7.

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## Proudkiwi

> went for a A7 over a 85, i could see nothing that justified the 85s 1k markup over a A7.


Seriously?

I'm not a fan of the 85's at all, they're rubbish compared to the 75, but they are still light years ahead of the A7.

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## veitnamcam

Ha ha ha.
Having had a 75 and 85 the 85 is my pick by far.
But for the money i would rather have a t3 than a a7 its essentially a Tikka anyway but is dearer and Imho doesn't deserve to wear the Sako name.

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## Gibo

> Ha ha ha.
> Having had a 75 and 85 the 85 is my pick by far.
> But for the money i would rather have a t3 than a a7 its essentially a Tikka anyway but is dearer and Imho doesn't deserve to wear the Sako name.


And breaks easier than a T3  :Have A Nice Day:

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## 300winmag

Matt, 
Just buy a bloody rifle and put this thread to bed, post a pic of your new toy and be done with it.

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## MattyP

> Matt, 
> Just buy a bloody rifle and put this thread to bed, post a pic of your new toy and be done with it.


Patience is a virtue I'm told! Wouldn't know as I have bugger all. I would it's starting to get the better of me but I'm back to Aus tomorrow so you'll have the joy of at least another 3 weeks of this thread!! Muahaha.

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## MattyP

I've ordered an X-Bolt .308 with one of the new Gen 4 Over Barrel Dan Hardy suppressors (the ones that don't bulge....hopefully!) Just couldn't resist that length.

Having the barrel cut to 20 inches and threaded - can always go shorter but I imagine this'll be fine. Suppressor only goes 8cm forward (3.15 inches). So total length of 23.15 inches. Just a bit over standard.

That's what i've ordered and the day I get back i'm going in to pick out a scope for it. As mentioned previously i've lined up the VX-6's. Both the 2-12x and 3-18x to try out.

Wanna go to the range that day GM  :Have A Nice Day: ?

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## Gibo

Not .308!!!!!!! Ha ha

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## gadgetman

> Wanna go to the range that day GM ?


Sounds like a plan. We have 100m boards back up now. Better add ammo to the list.

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## MattyP

> Sounds like a plan. We have 100m boards back up now. Better add ammo to the list.


100m - yay.

Yes indeed! I'll buy a few different boxes and we can see what it likes.

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## Toby

It'll like all gm's reloads haha

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## gadgetman

> It'll like all gm's reloads haha


Ssshhh!

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## MattyP

Are you saying I will have to get GM to reload for me!?!? Hahaha.

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## SlimySquirrel

Sounds like a plan!

Congrats on your order!

A nice VX6 to go on that classy rifle will look good too...

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## gadgetman

I do need to load up some more bombs.

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## MattyP

Picked up my new toy yesterday!

X-Bolt 308 cut down to 20 inches
Hardy Rifle Engineering Gen4 Over Barrel silencer
Leupold VX-6 - 3-18x44mm with illuminated Boone and Crockett reticle
Warne base
Leupold Rings
Harris Ultralight Bipod
Limbsaver Sling

Here's a couple of pics:





Shot it yesterday at the range with some of GM's reloads and then some cheap American Eagle FMJ's. It shot them all much better than I could! Ready to go~

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## SlimySquirrel

Very good!

Well done.. An excellent mix of Range abilities there!!

Looks the goods too... good luck!

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## gadgetman

Very nice set up I must say. Pretty damn good on the accuracy too.

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## MattyP

I should've got you to have a shot to see what the accuracy was really like. With a grant total of about 20 centerfire shots under my belt I doubt I do anything justice!

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## 300winmag

Just need to knock something over with it, and job done.

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## gadgetman

> Just need to knock something over with it, and job done.


+1

Generally getting three shots out of four in a group less than 20mm at 100m. Don't think I'd be doing any better.

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## MattyP

Just spent a very pleasant afternoon/evening at the range with GM! Tried about 5 types of ammo and had the pleasure of using his chrony. 168hr Sierra HPBT MatchKing did this at 100m with a dirty barrel (Forgot my cleaning kit):



Looks like i've found the ammo she likes!

168gr AMAX was about 0.9 MOA and 150gr SUPERFORMANCE just made it under MOA if I discount a shocking flyer.

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## gadgetman

Think it works pretty good.  :Thumbsup:

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## veitnamcam

Got to be pretty happy with that.
Factory ammo?

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## MattyP

> Got to be pretty happy with that.
> Factory ammo?


Very happy!

Yeah, all factory ammo. The photo is with some Australian Outback stuff. Uses the 168gr Sierra HPBT MatchKing projectile. Has some pretty outrageous claims about its "Ballistic Temperature Independence"....but whatever, my gun likes it.

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## gadgetman

Looking at their website I'd guess they are using Benchmark 8208.

Links

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handlo...ench+Mark+8208

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