# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  Some of my Combat Shotguns

## Miami_JBT

Oh where too start.....



The top is my Remington 870 Express Magnum. That shotgun rode six years as my patrol car's trunk gun. Been on plenty of calls and even gotten some face time. Mr. Dirtbag decided to play stupid so he got a shotgun barrel in the face. His eyes became bigger than the diameter or the barrel. This shotgun has been through think and thin. A ton of hurricanes, traveled across the US, and been on some crazy police adventures. Never getting rid of her. 

Next is my Norinco 982 Hawk. A ChiCom 870 Clone. I paid a total of $220 for it. Got it on a Independence Day sale. My previous experience with Norinco made products left a sour taste in my mouth. But surprisingly, this one works well. It's the beater shotugn for my personal vehicle when I want a shotgun instead of a rifle. 

Following her is my favorite automatic.... my FN SLP. She's a beast and also has served trunk duty as a patrol shotgun for work when I did uniform patrol. Fast handling and amazing craftsmanship. She shoots as fast as you pull the trigger.

Then you have my Winchester 1300 Defener Speed Pump. A quality shotgun that sadly Winchester stopped making. Love shooting her. Light, handy, and much better than a Mossberg in my opinion.

Then my rare piece. A Browning BPS Home Defender. This are Miroku made BPS Shotguns. But for the US, foreign mad shotguns cannot be imported with a mag capacity of over 5 rounds. These somehow made it past BATFE and US Customs. Not many were brought in and even less were sold since Browning really never sold for the tactical market. It is like smooth silk for a no frills pump shotgun. Well made and amazing light for a steel receiver. 

Now the goofy odd ball. My Gen 2 Kel-Tec KSG. Fourteen round in both mag tubes and kicks like a mule. Tiny, compact, and lightweight. It sure a hell makes for an offensive shotgun. Since this photo was taken, a light and Magpul VFG have been added. I have to say, my 115lbs wife loves to shoot it but it pushes her around.

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## Marty Henry

Only time ive used a pump was shooting wallabies, a mate bought one along as well as a rifle. Shotty with 2s for close in runners, then drop it and get the rifle ready for a long shot. No safety issues compared to a semi. They seem to be really popular in the US, mostly o/u and semis here.

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## Beavis

I've got an old school wood stock 1300 defender with rifle sights. Only fired one box of shells through it but I'd never sell it.

I never would have picked the BPS as being a serious use gun. I've read that you can't field strip them or it will screw up the action timing?

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## Miami_JBT

> I've got an old school wood stock 1300 defender with rifle sights. Only fired one box of shells through it but I'd never sell it.
> 
> I never would have picked the BPS as being a serious use gun. I've read that you can't field strip them or it will screw up the action timing?


BPS are fine. The BLR rifle is a pain.

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## Tommy

Don't own a shotgun yet, but I'd always liked the 1300 defender that I got to use with a mate. Will buy the next decent example I see for sale at a sane price. Wodd or synthetic is the question?

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## gadgetman

Interesting. I have a Norinco 870 clone as well and after getting a little feeding issue sorted it has worked flawlessly and points really well for me (long barrel game bird barrel). It cost me about the same as yours new with the exchange rate taken into account. I also have the real McCoy Rem 870.

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## MassiveAttack

> Don't own a shotgun yet, but I'd always liked the 1300 defender that I got to use with a mate. Will buy the next decent example I see for sale at a sane price. Wodd or synthetic is the question?


If you are going to hunt waterfowl with it then no question get the synthetic.

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## MassiveAttack

I have two of the same shotguns.  The Norinco 870 like gadget and the Winchester 1300.

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## Koshogi

Never really liked my 1300 Defender. Found the slide release to small, and then an action bar broke under 500 rds. Wasn't impressed. 

Much prefer the 870. Was fortunate enough to get given a Wilson Tactical by the boss. Very nice, but unfortunately no improvement in the patterning. 

Would love to get my 870 barrel worked by Vang Comp.

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## Miami_JBT

> If you are going to hunt waterfowl with it then no question get the synthetic.


Yup.... I grew up duck hunting Central Florida's water ways. Used a Remington 870 20ga youth as a kid and now a Benelli Nova 12ga. Polymer stock is the way to go.

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## EeeBees

The Defender is one of my favourite shotguns for birdscaring...7 - 9s...one vineyard I worked in was bordered by a deep creek gully... if I got the shots right, I could scare the birds nearly all the way up the gully with the echo...!!!  I would have discharged over three thousand rounds plus through it so far...and not a hiccup!!!

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## MassiveAttack

> Never really liked my 1300 Defender. Found the slide release to small, and then an action bar broke under 500 rds. Wasn't impressed. 
> 
> Much prefer the 870. Was fortunate enough to get given a Wilson Tactical by the boss. Very nice, but unfortunately no improvement in the patterning. 
> 
> Would love to get my 870 barrel worked by Vang Comp.


I broke the action bar on mine as well.  One tig job later it's still going.  I still like it and shot hundreds of gooses with it while my cursed Beretta was disfunctional.  I brought the made in turkey successor model (SPX) as my new backup shotgun but haven't shot any gooses with it as my new Beretta isn't as disfunctional as the old one.  The SPX isn't nearly as smooth as the 1300 but I am not sure if thats cos the 1300 shot millions of rounds.

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## kotuku

> I broke the action bar on mine as well.  One tig job later it's still going.  I still like it and shot hundreds of gooses with it while my cursed Beretta was disfunctional.  I brought the made in turkey successor model (SPX) as my new backup shotgun but haven't shot any gooses with it as my new Beretta isn't as disfunctional as the old one.  The SPX isn't nearly as smooth as the 1300 but I am not sure if thats cos the 1300 shot millions of rounds.


 massive youd be wanting to get that dandy wee bottom bugger in the mans photo.just nose the barrells through the blind flaps honk gooses in and then play rock'n'roll 12g style.
c,mon massive behind those glasses lay nerves of titanium,and a goose seeker extrordinaire.
course if you were to spice it up a tad ,a camo g string or bare ass would add to the effect!
Ps -thought youd been very bloody quiet on the gooses front,worried me for a while thought you might have become a card carrying twig&tweet entity.
actually might be time for one of those notorious w/es at you no whose eh what.

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## Rock river arms hunter

You own that many shotguns and there's no Benelli in there?!!!'

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## 223nut

> massive youd be wanting to get that dandy wee bottom bugger in the mans photo.just nose the barrells through the blind flaps honk gooses in and then play rock'n'roll 12g style.
> c,mon massive behind those glasses lay nerves of titanium,and a goose seeker extrordinaire.
> course if you were to spice it up a tad ,a camo g string or bare ass would add to the effect!
> Ps -thought youd been very bloody quiet on the gooses front,worried me for a while thought you might have become a card carrying twig&tweet entity.
> actually might be time for one of those notorious w/es at you no whose eh what.


I'm keeping my eye on a flock of them for him.... I know where there was 3 flocks of 100+ birds a few months ago. Crazy watching the sky go dark and all i had was the 17hmr  :Pissed Off:

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## Beaker

> I'm keeping my eye on a flock of them for him.... I know where there was 3 flocks of 100+ birds a few months ago. Crazy watching the sky go dark and all i had was the 17hmr


Where? We can help... :Have A Nice Day:

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## 223nut

In the vicinity of springs junction!

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## kotuku

> In the vicinity of springs junction!


yup theyd be up there a chattin an breedin like its goin outta fashion and with the warmer spring comin on theyll be headed for the clubmed McBeans (ellesmere)or club med Avon 
down Qe2 / travis estate/avonside way to join the whanau or the glorious grasslands of the lower Avon river.
incidentally was out the lake at one of my favoured spots recently and spooked a mob of 200+geese with an equally large mob of mallards tucked up their jacksies.
Miles too far away to let a shot go ,but not too bloody far to dream of fatman goose a frying in the pan.!
/

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## MassiveAttack

> In the vicinity of springs junction!


I am available to help.  Once you have experienced goose hunting over decoys you will be hooked on honk.

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## Miami_JBT

> You own that many shotguns and there's no Benelli in there?!!!'


Benellis are my hunting shotguns. I have M1 Super 90s and Novas.

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## Gloves

+1 on the Hawks,  there branded ranger here but exactly the same.. I've got 2, 1 standard and 1 tactical with a fold out stock and saddle. Probably my favorite gun.

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## marky123

M590a1....top that

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## Rushy

> Don't own a shotgun yet, but I'd always liked the 1300 defender that I got to use with a mate. Will buy the next decent example I see for sale at a sane price. Wodd or synthetic is the question?


Boy do I have a shotty for you.  Best you come out to have a play.

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## Micky Duck

there is a 1300 pump on trademe now for $650....oh you said sane price....

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## Moa Hunter

Miami, I have always wondered why NZ cops are not issued with Riot shotguns but get Glocks instead. I would have thought that a shotgun would be a lot more versatile. It can be used to block and strike looks intimidating and can fire non-lethal rubber bullets and buckshot as well as lead. Can you give us a run down on the pros and cons of pistol versus shotty. Generally people shot by Police here are killed which has prompted the adoption of Tasers as a means of non lethal defence.I used to have a Winchester riot pump for pigs. Even shot two Chamois with it one morning.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Miami, I have always wondered why NZ cops are not issued with Riot shotguns but get Glocks instead. I would have thought that a shotgun would be a lot more versatile. It can be used to block and strike looks intimidating and can fire non-lethal rubber bullets and buckshot as well as lead. Can you give us a run down on the pros and cons of pistol versus shotty. Generally people shot by Police here are killed which has prompted the adoption of Tasers as a means of non lethal defence.I used to have a Winchester riot pump for pigs. Even shot two Chamois with it one morning.


I think you will find that most cars have a shotgun or ar15 or both in the boot, it's not really convenient walking around with a long gun full-time. 

Is it really in the best interests of the forum to be discussing the pros and cons of weapons for use against other human beings? A necessary evil they may be, but here is probably not really a place for that discussion

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## Paddy79

well forum is called hunting and SHOOTING so yeah if it involves shooting then it is appropriate?

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## SiB

I with what @Ryan Songhurst is saying. Much as we share an interest in firearms generally, and often in those more specialised firearms many of us might not usually have an opportunity to (test) fire, there is a wisdom in remembering this is a public forum, and showing appropriate restraint. 

Yes theres a certain irony if we are subsequently discussing ex WW1 303s, but thats the point; if we can remember the purpose of the weapon we are discussing, we can ensure we are demonstrating/illustrating what being a fit and proper NZ FAL holder is about.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> well forum is called hunting and SHOOTING so yeah if it involves shooting then it is appropriate?


Do you actually own firearms?

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## csmiffy

well this is getting messy quick...

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> That did not involve shooting there for that was inappropriate
> and yes I own rifles in both A and E oh and I also have my B and own pistols
> But as the heading of this site says hunting and shooting, many old 303s on here have killed people yet dozens drool over those very firearms on this site so if some one wants to say this gun shoot this many or these people they are allowed too


It involved threatening to harm or kill someone with a weapon, also the kind of thing we probably don't need on the forum, I'm sure an arms officer would be very interested in comments like that coming from a licensed firearms owner. There needs to be a line drawn in the sand where yes, it's ok to take an interest in militaria and firearms of all types, but asking for a discussion on what's better for shooting people should cross that line. This is exactly why I don't like that idiot Miami and am glad he seems to have finally got the hint and left this forum to whinge about how we are such a bunch of sissys on all the American black gun forums. 
I don't see anyone asking what it better to shoot someone with, a 303 or a 1911?

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> well this is getting messy quick...


You know what else is probably pretty messy? 

Stabbing people

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## csmiffy

> You know what else is probably pretty messy? 
> 
> Stabbing people


hammers...hammers are messy.
And axes...

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## Moa Hunter

> I think you will find that most cars have a shotgun or ar15 or both in the boot, it's not really convenient walking around with a long gun full-time. 
> 
> Is it really in the best interests of the forum to be discussing the pros and cons of weapons for use against other human beings? A necessary evil they may be, but here is probably not really a place for that discussion


Hi Ryan, The reason I asked the question about Police issue shot guns in the US was because Miami said of his Rem 870 express magnum "  six years as my patrol cars trunk gun... ".
I have rightly or wrongly made the assumption that he served as a police officer and carried a shot gun. Without that statement I would not have raised the question. My question is directed at saving lives not taking them.
I along with many others have been concerned for some time with fatal shootings of offenders by the police when a means of non fatal restraint is many times perhaps more appropriate. Hence the use of Tasers here which have also not been without problems.
Is a shotgun easier to point and use with rubber buckshot for non lethal restraint - shooting legs for example, especially by new officers rather than a Glock pistol. I don't know but suspect it would be. If I saw enough conclusive evidence from overseas I would certainly make a submission to the Minister of Police.

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## Savage1

> Hi Ryan, The reason I asked the question about Police issue shot guns in the US was because Miami said of his Rem 870 express magnum " … six years as my patrol cars trunk gun... ".
> I have rightly or wrongly made the assumption that he served as a police officer and carried a shot gun. Without that statement I would not have raised the question. My question is directed at saving lives not taking them.
> I along with many others have been concerned for some time with fatal shootings of offenders by the police when a means of non fatal restraint is many times perhaps more appropriate. Hence the use of Tasers here which have also not been without problems.
> Is a shotgun easier to point and use with rubber buckshot for non lethal restraint - shooting legs for example, especially by new officers rather than a Glock pistol. I don't know but suspect it would be. If I saw enough conclusive evidence from overseas I would certainly make a submission to the Minister of Police.


If there was conclusive evidence you wouldn't have to make a submission, there are plenty of far more experienced and knowledgeable people overseeing such things.

Which fatal offender shootings are you talking about in particular?

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## Moa Hunter

> If there was conclusive evidence you wouldn't have to make a submission, there are plenty of far more experienced and knowledgeable people overseeing such things.
> 
> Which fatal offender shootings are you talking about in particular?


The Steven Wallace case is one I have never forgotten.
In relation to private firearms ownership, fatal shootings by the police do not improve the publics perception of firearms or the police force. Look what has happened in the US with mass street protests following fatal shootings of members of the public who were mistakenly thought to be armed.

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## Cordite

> Hi Ryan, The reason I asked the question about Police issue shot guns in the US was because Miami said of his Rem 870 express magnum "  six years as my patrol cars trunk gun... ".
> I have rightly or wrongly made the assumption that he served as a police officer and carried a shot gun. Without that statement I would not have raised the question. My question is directed at saving lives not taking them.
> I along with many others have been concerned for some time with fatal shootings of offenders by the police when a means of non fatal restraint is many times perhaps more appropriate. Hence the use of Tasers here which have also not been without problems.
> Is a shotgun easier to point and use with rubber buckshot for non lethal restraint - shooting legs for example, especially by new officers rather than a Glock pistol. I don't know but suspect it would be. If I saw enough conclusive evidence from overseas I would certainly make a submission to the Minister of Police.


Wonder if this has ever been trialed.  Works for several types of wild animal, why not on crazed meth heads?



Black nets for Miami JBT of course.

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## timattalon

> Wonder if this has ever been trialed.  Works for several types of wild animal, why not on crazed meth heads?
> 
> Attachment 91977
> 
> Black nets for Miami JBT of course.


But if one of the weights hits a bystander or the perp, then "_there aint no coming back from that.._."  but I like your idea. Looks intimidating, Its safe cos its orange, only downsides is it is a bugger to reload in a hurry and it wont fit on the officers batman utility belt for quick response.

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## gonetropo

how reliable are those kel-tec ksg's though ?

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## csmiffy

> But if one of the weights hits a bystander or the perp, then "_there aint no coming back from that.._."  but I like your idea. Looks intimidating, Its safe cos its orange, only downsides is it is a bugger to reload in a hurry and it wont fit on the officers batman utility belt for quick response.


Didn't that happen years ago when some of the deer recovery lads tried to net one of their mates and one of the weights hit him on the head and killed him?
Anecdotal and legendary so if wrong I will stand corrected. 
More user friendly weights are being used now perhaps anyway?

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## SiB

Ive seen a female weighing in at maybe 65kg easily resist four burly cops attempting to restrain her; she was completely out to it on angel dust (pcp). 

Likewise pepper spray.  Works on 9/10.  Number ten is the one who gets angrier

Tasers have a similar human resistance element; it just pisses off some unique and scary characters.  

Having faced numerous intoxicated/drug affected individuals in my past, I can certainly attest to the lack of pain/fear shown by such individuals; their pain thresholds are off the scale and incapacitating them efficiently is the mantra.  

All of this is to say Im uncertain a net gun meets criteria

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## Cordite

> Didn't that happen years ago when some of the deer recovery lads tried to net one of their mates and one of the weights hit him on the head and killed him?
> Anecdotal and legendary so if wrong I will stand corrected. 
> More user friendly weights are being used now perhaps anyway?


 @csmiffy

Dang!  I already wrote to the police minister.... (-:  Not.

Yes, thought about the weights too, but just had to post that pic.  Me civilian no stand near crazed meth head, no.

Suppose range required is less if for a human close up.  Smaller net, smaller/less dense weights, smaller charge, etc.

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## Moa Hunter

The problem with you Cordite, is that you have never gotten over your childhood obsession with Spider Man !!

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## Cordite

> The problem with you Cordite, is that you have never gotten over your childhood obsession with Spider Man !!


Fszzzt!! ################

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