# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  100 days after paying

## rod

Sent a rifle off to gunsmith middle of  last year to be turned into a 28 nosler.  Got the  bill 24th April this year  paid it the next day ,still don't have the rifle 100 days after paying .after a Lot of excueeses  was  told it was sent last week on tuseday then it didn't get picked up 
Given tracking number on Tuesday this week that doesn't  work rung courier nothing picked up or dropped into them.
Anyone got any advice what to do next.
I'm.in the bottom of the South and it's in the north island.

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## 199p

Shit Rod that sounds like a hard run around mate

If i was you i would be putting a name and shame up to put pressure on them to deliver gunsmithing and custum guns defiantly aren't a massive market her in nz. 


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## rod

Yeah pretty much over it.
One thing after another. Says somthing in dosent deliver..pretty disssapointing really .

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## veitnamcam

Police? IRD? 
Effectively a stolen rifle and fraud?

I have no idea really but that is a shit shituation to be in.

Others will come along with knowledge on what to do in this situation I am sure.
They may advise not to name and shame before resolution/

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## mikee

I think a year is a long time to be patient and you have kept up your end of things by the sound of it, I hope you get it resolved soon

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## rod

Thinking reporting or threat of reporting it missing to the police might hurry him along .

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## Max Headroom

> Thinking reporting or threat of reporting it missing to the police might hurry him along .


That might be a sensible thing to do, whether or not you want to hurry him up. If he doesn't have it then who does?

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## veitnamcam

> Thinking reporting or threat of reporting it missing to the police might hurry him along .


Ird are more scary than the police....I would be looking at both those avenues but dont do anything just yet....I am sure some clever legal type will arrive on the thread.

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## rod

Way things have gone he'll  still have it .

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## timattalon

> Sent a rifle off to gunsmith middle of  last year to be turned into a 28 nosler.  Got the  bill 24th April this year  paid it the next day ,still don't have the rifle 100 days after paying .after a Lot of excueeses  was  told it was sent last week on tuseday then it didn't get picked up 
> Given tracking number on Tuesday this week that doesn't  work rung courier nothing picked up or dropped into them.
> Anyone got any advice what to do next.
> I'm.in the bottom of the South and it's in the north island.


My suggestion would be to first advise him that you will be approaching the police as the firearm has gone missing in transit. Suggest that if he has genuinely sent it that the courier must have possession so ask for a specific date for when it was sent so you can follow up wit the Arms office. 

When and if you speak to the Arms office, it would not hurt to explain that you suspect he has not sent it and that he is potentially heading to a fraudulent situation, but if he thinks the AO is actually looking into it, he may be more inclined to tell the truth. A year is too long. If he cannot do this, he should have fronted up and admitted it earlier.

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## Sasquatch

You may have a leg to stand on under the consumer guarantee's act?

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## Rushy

Yup. Fair Trading ...... not a good example!

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## Cowboy06

We can probably guess who this gunsmith might be.

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## stug

Read this thread, then make him pay

https://www.gpforums.co.nz/threads/3...ting-for-Noobs

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## Maca49

Where R U maybe some one here could be nominated by you to call in a collect it from the person?

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## Maca49

And then use it for another year and courier it back set up and sighted?

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## trooper90

Helluva lot of guys on here seem to get custom built guns then sell 6 months or 50 RDS later. If I was going that way I would fork out a few bucks extra and FLY up there and pick it up in person THEN pay for completed build when happy with it in hand. Would he happy to pay a deposit agreed on first hell  air nz grab seat deals pretty damn good I'm sorry by t I think you have been very foolish.

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## outdoorlad

I'd ring who ever it is up and bluntly tell them it had better be on the courier today or there name will be plastered over ever hunting forum in NZ and social media, then if that doesn't work I would consider it theft and lay a compliant with the police. 100days is farking rediculous.

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## bigbear

How much have you payed to this guy so far? which city. might stop all of us guessing who

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Its pretty obvious it either doesn't exist or hes telling porkys about it being finished when its not

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## rod

$2500  I supplied everything apart from barrel and extended mag box.

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## gonetropo

i suggest you pay him a visit, provide proof of courier  or hand it over. have local cop shop on speed dial

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## Maca49

Shit sounds like the Indians and my fridge, now 11 months, been through the small claims, hopefully the bailiff's ain't soft cocks!! :Pissed Off:

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## Moa Hunter

> My suggestion would be to first advise him that you will be approaching the police as the firearm has gone missing in transit. Suggest that if he has genuinely sent it that the courier must have possession so ask for a specific date for when it was sent so you can follow up wit the Arms office. 
> 
> When and if you speak to the Arms office, it would not hurt to explain that you suspect he has not sent it and that he is potentially heading to a fraudulent situation, but if he thinks the AO is actually looking into it, he may be more inclined to tell the truth. A year is too long. If he cannot do this, he should have fronted up and admitted it earlier.


I would like to add to timattalon's very good advice. In any contract there are three elements that must be satisfied to make it binding : Offer, acceptance and consideration ( consideration in contractual terms meaning some form of agreed payment) Clearly all three have been satisfied in this case. The contract is binding and enforceable. I am guessing that no time limit was set in which the work had to be completed therefore a reasonableness test would be applied. It would be reasonable to expect the work to be completed within six months of payment for example - the gunsmith could argue that he was unwilling to purchase / import a barrel without an upfront payment which was originally agreed to be paid in cash, but that he had been waiting since the middle of last year until the end of April when payment was finally made against an invoice. What I would suggest is that you gather all paperwork emails txts letters etc along with diary entrees and make copies of these in case things turn bad. Having another person collect the firearm on your behalf - requiring serial numbers etc as proof of ownership would be possibly the best way if they could arrange to be accompanied by a local Police officer. But most certainly as timattalon suggests ask the local police in the first instance.

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## Max Headroom

Are there any threads on this forum that deal with poor service from North island Gunsmiths that might have relevance ?

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## outlander

> Shit sounds like the Indians and my fridge, now 11 months, been through the small claims, hopefully the bailiff's ain't soft cocks!!


Sioux, Apache, Cheyenne or Navajo? Those Cheyenne can be tough on a fridge!

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## bigbear

you have a lot more patients then me. If i had handed over $2500 i wouldn't be waiting 100 days i would be paying the guy a visit or going to the police

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## Preacher

Is he a "reputable" gunsmith?  I.E a name most all of us will recognize?

I see 4 possible reasons:

#1 His work load is far beyond his production capacity and he is lying to allow time to complete the work.

#2 He has fucked up your rifle and is stalling to try replace it.

#3 It has genuinely got lost in transit.

#4 He is a con artist.

The damage to his reputation and therefore his business would be too great for it to be as simple as, it takes 100 days and many excuses in order to have the privilege of his services after handing over substantial sums for said service.  The business would die a rapid death I think.

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## Bagheera

For comparison, I had a barrel fitted by a lesser known north island gunsmith and had it back within a week, job done. I did pay for the barrel and arrange for it to be delivered to the Smith.

I'd suspect either something embarrassing has happened like put the barrel on the wrong gun, lost s crucial part etc or else he has psych problems like depression or alcohol.  Unlikely that he really intended to steal $2500 and half a gun from you.  Or something you did inadvertently caused a problem like incorrect contact info.  Things may not be as bad as they sound.

Looks like you're new to the forum. Do you have another handle ? Tell us a bit about yourself, what sort of shooting do you do, what was the gun you were getting made  ? All interesting stuff.

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## kotuku

rod -seems the communication highway was non existent here.IN my POV if hed made some sort of blue wouldnt it be both logical and polite to at least phone you explain the situationand try to reach an amicable solution.
in fact that applies to all options mentioned.
me -well bluntly id be ringing himand saying front up whats the true story -any B/s or high faluting ecuses hes got 24hrs to come to the party or you go public here(dont forget the present anonymity he enjoys reflects suspicion on any number of competent professionals also in the gunsmithing business in NI and who are entirely innocent.)
 as its a firearm yes involve the boys in blue but again thats up to you.If its the dopey courier company then same approach applies -front up discuss agree to remdy or else you go public again!
100days without any word on how the project is going is a bloody disgrace in my opinion and is in fact unprofessional.

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## Tahr

> rod -seems the communication highway was non existent here.IN my POV if hed made some sort of blue wouldnt it be both logical and polite to at least phone you explain the situationand try to reach an amicable solution.
> in fact that applies to all options mentioned.
> me -well bluntly id be ringing himand saying front up whats the true story -any B/s or high faluting ecuses hes got 24hrs to come to the party or you go public here(dont forget the present anonymity he enjoys reflects suspicion on any number of competent professionals also in the gunsmithing business in NI and who are entirely innocent.)
>  as its a firearm yes involve the boys in blue but again thats up to you.If its the dopey courier company then same approach applies -front up discuss agree to remdy or else you go public again!
> 100days without any word on how the project is going is a bloody disgrace in* my opinion and is in fact unprofessional*.


  @kotuku This made me smile. It's the first time I've ever seen you make an_ under_ statement.  :Thumbsup:

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## rod

There's been lots of communication  from me ,trying to  get it sorted been hes just not delivering on what he Says,  im  trying to give him benefit of the doubt.
Got another tracking number  so will try it on Monday and see what happens.

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## rod

Thanks for all the advice and ideas guys

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## rod

:Thumbsup:

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## 57jl

who is he ????

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## mikee

I don't understand why it all seems to be so hard........... this honest communication with customers thing. It surely ain't rocket science

Just to note if you added all the time it took for my last 3 semi-custom guns to be sorted the total would still be less than your 100 days since you paid, I think you have been more than patient

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## rod

Today's tracking number is active so looking good hopfully .

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## Mooseman

Wow that's a step in the right direction at least , hope it's sorted soon and that you are happy with the rifle in the end.

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## veitnamcam

Possibly your gunsmith saw this thread and was promted to action?

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## 40mm

hope I dont get duped by him

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## Beetroot

> I don't understand why it all seems to be so hard........... this honest communication with customers thing. It surely ain't rocket science
> 
> Just to note if you added all the time it took for my last 3 semi-custom guns to be sorted the total would still be less than your 100 days since you paid, I think you have been more than patient


It seems to be a NZ thing, almost every business I've ever dealt with has been terrible with communication,  never give updates, never warn of delays, don't let you know once payment has been received or goods shipped.

The missus just got her UK passport renewed, had updates at every single part of the process and had the new one back in 10 days.
Sends it to NZ immigration 2 weeks ago and the only way we no they have got it is via the tracking number.

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## veitnamcam

> It seems to be a NZ thing, almost every business I've ever dealt with has been terrible with communication,  never give updates, never warn of delays, don't let you know once payment has been received or goods shipped.
> 
> The missus just got her UK passport renewed, had updates at every single part of the process and had the new one back in 10 days.
> Sends it to NZ immigration 2 weeks ago and the only way we no they have got it is via the tracking number.


I agree but not just business.
For myself being a bit of a tec retard I shit bricks from the moment I click transfer funds till somebody contacts me/ reply to my contact saying they have recieved transferred funds.
How do you know they have received funds but are just saying they haven't to bridge their own cash flow gap?

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## Moa Hunter

> Today's tracking number is active so looking good hopfully .


Lets all hope that you have your rifle soon and can post some photos here next week. All the talk in this thread about what should happen is all very well and good but that is not the reality of what has happened to date. The reality is that you have been left guessing. I think it should be a salutary lesson to everyone that in future we make sure that we have a written agreement / contract containing all the information about the work that is to be done and the final date by which the work will be completed. There are various scenarios which could cause disputes over the ownership of a firearm - death in testate of the smith, bankruptcy / receivership and associated seizure of the business assets by a receiver. Perhaps it would be wise to advise the police by email of the details when a firearm is sent to a Gunsmith as a extra proof to a receipt / delivery docket.

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## Mathias

> I agree but not just business.
> For myself being a bit of a tec retard I shit bricks from the moment I click transfer funds till somebody contacts me/ reply to my contact saying they have recieved transferred funds.
> How do you know they have received funds but are just saying they haven't to bridge their own cash flow gap?


VC my funds haven't shown yet, please try sending that 2K again....thanks  :Grin:

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## muzza

> Perhaps it would be wise to advise the police by email of the details when a firearm is sent to a Gunsmith as a extra proof to a receipt / delivery docket.


I dont think voluntarily giving firearms details to the Police is a wise move , personally. Allowing them to begin building a serial number data base by default wont do any of us any good in the future.

The problem in this situation lies entirely with the gunsmith and his lack of communication skills. Try and use a local gunsmith if you can , then you can visit and make sure the job is being done , and can talk in person.

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## kotuku

> @kotuku This made me smile. It's the first time I've ever seen you make an_ under_ statement.


understatement overstatement -means bugger all to me -just that myself if im dealing with anyone even in TM deals ,i make bloody sure comms are established immediately and kept open till deal is done and dusted. moe to point if anything does go wrongat my end ,notify and explain intended remdy !.only ever had one TM failure a knob of goatcheese from ashvegas who got highly personal with his threats -one glance at feedback =He was a shyster Mk1 so blacklist.

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## Carlsen Highway

Send him your own invoice for the cost of the rifle, including the work you payed him for, along with a letter saying your happy to have a judgement made in court if he doesn't pay it.

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## Max Headroom

How's things going Rod?

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## Moa Hunter

> I dont think voluntarily giving firearms details to the Police is a wise move , personally. Allowing them to begin building a serial number data base by default wont do any of us any good in the future.
> 
> The problem in this situation lies entirely with the gunsmith and his lack of communication skills. Try and use a local gunsmith if you can , then you can visit and make sure the job is being done , and can talk in person.


I am not 100% on this but it is my understanding that a Gunsmith has to keep a register of the firearms they have in their possession and make that available to the Police anyway so advising the Police of the movement of a firearm is probably not telling them anything that that they won't know soon enough. The point I was making is that having advised the Police acts as another proof of the movement of the firearm and it's ownership should a dispute arise in the future. I am not suggesting that this step needs be taken when dealing with the better known and reliable Gunsmiths. In this present case we have not been shown if the firearm owner has a receipt from the Gunsmith or any other legal proof that the firearm exists.

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## stug

> I am not 100% on this but it is my understanding that a Gunsmith has to keep a register of the firearms they have in their possession and make that available to the Police anyway so advising the Police of the movement of a firearm is probably not telling them anything that that they won't know soon enough. The point I was making is that having advised the Police acts as another proof of the movement of the firearm and it's ownership should a dispute arise in the future. I am not suggesting that this step needs be taken when dealing with the better known and reliable Gunsmiths. In this present case we have not been shown if the firearm owner has a receipt from the Gunsmith or any other legal proof that the firearm exists.


I think it is only dealers that have to record firearms. You do not need a dealers license to be a gunsmith, unless you are making or selling firearms.

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## chainsaw

> Today's tracking number is active so looking good hopfully .


Did you get the rifle ok in the end ?

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## Maca49

Owning a service business, as I do, the amount of shit I am left with from people just not collecting their stuff is unbelievable. And of course the ones that are told their shit is not worth repair and then its "well don't throw it out, Ill pick it up" bullshit its still here 6 months later. They day I chuck it is the day they come back! I have a 3 month sign in the shop, saying after 3 months it gone! Nice to show them.

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## rod

There's a active tracking number on  pbt should be here tomorrow , so looking good at the moment.

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## Carlsen Highway

Interesting to see if he has actually done the work on it.

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## gonetropo

> Owning a service business, as I do, the amount of shit I am left with from people just not collecting their stuff is unbelievable. And of course the ones that are told their shit is not worth repair and then its "well don't throw it out, Ill pick it up" bullshit its still here 6 months later. They day I chuck it is the day they come back! I have a 3 month sign in the shop, saying after 3 months it gone! Nice to show them.


hell i fully agree!
in my workshop: an electric skateboard, guy contacted no reply received. (worth 600 plus and my bill is $120)
home theater amp. has been wet and considered unrepairable,  wont even acknowledge messages so i have to clutter up the place with it
dashboard from a boat, wont answer messages
it cost me time ($) to keep contacting these people. today i repaired an amplifier that was a "rush job" end result " i will pick it up when i go passed next, dont know when"

time to go work for someone else again i think cos frankly the admin is bullshit.

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## akaroa1

> There's a active tracking number on  pbt should be here tomorrow , so looking good at the moment.


I just hope you get what you are expecting and you can put the recent drama behind you.

Personally I pretty interested to know who was working on it.
It's a small pond we live in here and that sort of service should be exposed so that others who spend hard cash don't get burned.
Especially when it sounds like you were very prompt in paying them.

Best luck when it does arrive.

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## SiB

@rod

Come on mate dont keep us all in suspense!!

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## Tommy

> Personally I pretty interested to know who was working on it.
> It's a small pond we live in here and that sort of service should be exposed so that others who spend hard cash don't get burned.


Too right. Clowns in various industries pull this shit day in day out, and no-ones the wiser until it happens to them.

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## Max Headroom

> I just hope you get what you are expecting and you can put the recent drama behind you.
> 
> Personally I pretty interested to know who was working on it.
> It's a small pond we live in here and that sort of service should be exposed so that others who spend hard cash don't get burned.
> Especially when it sounds like you were very prompt in paying them.
> 
> Best luck when it does arrive.


I realise you may not want the drama of naming the guy. Fair enough. The other side of the coin is that if you do, it puts the other gunsmiths in the area in the clear.

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## mikee

> hell i fully agree!
> in my workshop: an electric skateboard, guy contacted no reply received. (worth 600 plus and my bill is $120)
> home theater amp. has been wet and considered unrepairable,  wont even acknowledge messages so i have to clutter up the place with it
> dashboard from a boat, wont answer messages
> it cost me time ($) to keep contacting these people. today i repaired an amplifier that was a "rush job" end result " i will pick it up when i go passed next, dont know when"
> 
> time to go work for someone else again i think cos frankly the admin is bullshit.


Working in a service industry all my life, what have I learned...........................................  ............................
1. dont deal with the general public if possible cause for every good bastard there are at least 5 no hoper customers you will either never please or will pay their bill (or both)
2. Commercial customers are where its at.
3. See 2 above.

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## Tommy

> Working in a service industry all my life, what have I learned...........................................  ............................
> 1. dont deal with the general public if possible cause for every good bastard there are at least 5 no hoper customers you will either never please or will pay their bill (or both)
> 2. Commercial customers are where its at.
> 3. See 2 above.


4. There's always a shyster

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## muzza

I had a rifle being built by a very reputable gunsmith a few years ago. Got an email from him saying he had had a bad injury to his foot and there was going to be quite a delay while he recovered. Wasnt a problem to me , I wished him well and to get in touch again when he was on deck properly.

Rifle duly turned up after a while and everyone was happy because we communicated .

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## Projects

How'd you get on @Rob ? Was thinking about this the other day to see if you got the result you were hoping for?

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## 7mm Rem Mag

Probably a bit scared to name until the job is done correctly or shit could get nasty and gun not done to satisfaction. Best wait til gun in hand and job done to satisfaction then name   :36 1 7:

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## rod

Still in the process  of getting it all tided up ,got rifle back last Thursday,it's missing a couple of bits that are apparently on  courier  being sent on Tuesday this week . But no tracking number.
So mb tomorrow if I'm lucky .

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## Trout

Any work on rifles or purchases I make on tm I only deal with people in the South Island.Any problems I can drive to their door.

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## Nick-D

> I had a rifle being built by a very reputable gunsmith a few years ago. Got an email from him saying he had had a bad injury to his foot and there was going to be quite a delay while he recovered. Wasnt a problem to me , I wished him well and to get in touch again when he was on deck properly.
> 
> Rifle duly turned up after a while and everyone was happy because we communicated .


That's it man, fuck ups and unforeseen circumstances happen all the time. Its how a business deals with it that separates good service from bad. People are generally pretty understanding as long as communication is clear and you do your best to make things right.

Its not hard, but I think a few of these practical trade minded fellas just struggle to wrap their head around the admin side. Just not wired that way.

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## rod

All the missing bits turned up yesterday.
Pretty happy with it.

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## Max Headroom

> All the missing bits turned up yesterday.
> Pretty happy with it.Attachment 93800


Good one.

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## SiB

@rod

The key question to to is;
Would you use the same gunsmith on your next project?

Sometimes we want to say neither good, not bad about a business service experience; but the above Question IMHO puts it in perspective....

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## rod

It certinaly  does. 
Pretty happy with how it looks,Still need to shoot to really see how it is .
But more than likely I wouldn't as way to  much hassle trying to get it all sorted when  it should be a pretty easy process.

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## csmiffy

Its the wrong way around lol

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## Sako851

Glad you finally have it all back, definitely not good enough from the guys that did the job.

In that situation i would be rather quick to get into contact with the police if I found a reason not to trust the company.. better safe than having a rifle in the wrong persons hands if it did go missing or something like that.

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## kukuwai

> All the missing bits turned up yesterday.
> Pretty happy with it.


I'm glad your happy with it.

I hope its a tack driver.

You deserve it to be, especially with the patience you have shown, others certainly would not have been the same !



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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## Sideshow

Good on you @rod for keeping stumm! Many would have let lose and there is always two sides to the story. 
Nice to see that you have it all back.
For anybody else. Make sure that you have a solid paper trail. Put everything in writing and get all agreements in writing. That way if shit dose hit the fan you have a couple of good legs to stand on.
Got taught that lesson earlier this year. Cost me £500.00 put think it was worth it as I now make bloody sure I won't get caught like that again.

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## Feebz

@rod  Just wondering how your rifle is going? Shooting tight groups & enjoying it?

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## Magnus

That is completely piss poor mate. I'd let him know the rifle will need to be in your hands withen the next 5 days filling that name an shame will be brought upon him with the next call being the police to report a missing firearm under his care.

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## jakewire

Um @Magnus, it's a near 3 month old thread and he's got it back
The post above yours was a folllow up from a member wishing to know if it shoots well.

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