# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  DIY Induction Annealer

## MGNZ

it's rough looking but works good. video of it in action at the bottom.



Video In Action

pretty much used this guys design for the induction part, but used a different controller and got all my parts off Aliexpress.
Induction brass annealer  | Shooters' Forum

----------


## steven

I tried to get a burner one going and while the electronics worked great the mechanical feeding was flaky.   I have wondered about using a case collator dropping into something like this with a trapdoor to drop it into water.

----------


## Gibo

> I tried to get a burner one going and while the electronics worked great the mechanical feeding was flaky.   I have wondered about using a case collator dropping into something like this with a trapdoor to drop it into water.


You don't need water

----------


## The Claw

I (well my brother actually) built an annealer that uses 2 propane? torches. I must get a video of it running. I wanted to build an induction annealer but it all seemed to hard (and expensive) but this has renewed my enthusiasm to have a go

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

----------


## MGNZ

> I (well my brother actually) built an annealer that uses 2 propane? torches. I must get a video of it running. I wanted to build an induction annealer but it all seemed to hard (and expensive) but this has renewed my enthusiasm to have a go


Yea mate. Its not too hard, the controller is the tricky bit. I used an arduino, happy to Share the source code if you wanna go that way. AliExpress has sharp prices and free shipping on most of the bits you need too so $ not too bad.

----------


## 40mm

> You don't need water


just bourbon

----------


## MGNZ

If anyone's interested, got the timing dialed in for 223, 308, 270 & 300WM. Yellow is 650F and white is 450F.

----------


## 300CALMAN

> Yea mate. It’s not too hard, the controller is the tricky bit. I used an arduino, happy to Share the source code if you wanna go that way. AliExpress has sharp prices and free shipping on most of the bits you need too so $ not too bad.


Hi @MGNZ this is definitely interesting! Source code yes please and do you have some photos of the beast open? Parts list?

Awesome and Thanks in advance

300

----------


## Gibo

> If anyone's interested, got the timing dialed in for 223, 308, 270 & 300WM. Yellow is 650F and white is 450F.


Whats black?

----------


## MSL

> Whats black?


Burnt

----------


## The Claw

> Burnt


Templaq paint burns when it reaches its rated temp 

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

----------


## MGNZ

> Hi @MGNZ this is definitely interesting! Source code yes please and do you have some photos of the beast open? Parts list?
> 
> Awesome and Thanks in advance
> 
> 300


Hi  @300CALMAN,
some pics below of the inside and arduino pinout and also some links to the bits from aliexpress and the software source.

ZVS induction board
Display
12V 2A power supply
Cooling pump
water tube
 1/8" copper tube
48V 600W power supply
current sensor (optional)
Radiator
cooling tank
controller

arduino software source code

----------


## 300CALMAN

Wow that's hiding a water cooler and all! Very impressive

----------


## MGNZ

This project is pretty much finished now. video below of doing some 270 brass in free run mode.

I did 75pc of 223 brass without pausing - the coil remains cool and the only parts that were slightly warm were the resonant capacitors on the induction board.

** if anyone is going to build one of these - The water cooled coil is an absolute must. makes such a big difference to heat as well as efficiency

Cheers,
Mark

Free run video

----------


## 300CALMAN

That is awesome. @40mm a big one for 40 mm?

----------


## 40mm

haha, i doubt i can afford to reload enough to wear out my 40mm cases ( thats all 50 of them!)
but ill give it a honest attempt....

----------


## MGNZ

Video links are broken - put them on Youtube instead.

https://youtu.be/qzvZ5TNsX0A

https://youtu.be/5iiaMXDGw6I

----------


## 300CALMAN

> haha, i doubt i can afford to reload enough to wear out my 40mm cases ( thats all 50 of them!)
> but ill give it a honest attempt....


FAAA that's a few zombies and zombie trucks!!! I was looking at some 40mm empties at Wills Outfitters, quite a big pill really! 1/2 a can of 2218 each to fill?

----------


## canross

Well that is snazzy and a half...... I am.... really impressed. Appreciate your posting the links to everything - I barely understand electronics but can usually copy it pretty well  :Psmiley:

----------


## 40mm

> FAAA that's a few zombies and zombie trucks!!! I was looking at some 40mm empties at Wills Outfitters, quite a big pill really! 1/2 a can of 2218 each to fill?


i think its gonna be 1/2 a kg of b.p. each shot......$$$$$$$$$

----------


## steven

I tried to get a revolving one going and the arduino electronics worked great but the mechanical feed and heating, just not.  I have been thinking of trying something like this....

----------


## 40mm

Hi @MGNZ, do you have an approximate parts cost for this? How is it going. no issues yet?

----------


## MGNZ

copper tube	$5.95 
coolant tank	$11.26 
radiator	$10.80 
48V supply	$49.87 
hose	$4.34 
pump	$5.92 
12V supply	$3.58 
LCD	$3.21 
ZVS	$39.07 
arduino controller	$4.50 
misc bits (jaycar)	$50.00 
Total	$188.50 + a few other bit I had lying around.

see the Aliexpress links on my earlier post.

No issues with it so far. The capacitors get warm on the induction board after annealing about 50 cases in free run mode - 1 case annealed every 8ish seconds, so I just run 25pc batches then give it 5 mins to cool down before running more. The next addition might be to add a temperature sensor on the capacitors so that it automatically goes into a cool down mode when needed- like the AMP machines do.

----------


## MGNZ

I've been getting quite a few questions from members wanting to build an annealer like this one and most people seem very capable of building everything, but the electronic controller is the hurdle.

Now that we are all in coronavirus lockdown - I am going to have some free time and was thinking of designing a circuit board to sell to members at cost. The board will accept an arduino and will run the software I wrote for my annealer.

looking to see who would be interested in this to see if it's worth doing.

Couple of options:
- blank circuit board + shopping list of parts from Digikey that people can solder themselves (like a Jaycar kitset)
- Get the whole unit assembled in china

If you're interested, let me know what option you would go for.


* the controller is the circuitboard in the yellow box below. 
It connects to the OLED display, 48V power supply, ZVS board, 12V power supply, servo or drop solenoid, 3 x buttons, pump, fan, (optional temperature and current sensors)

----------


## Walker

Well you've had a visit about 2! :Thumbsup:

----------


## Tentman

I'd be interested in either option, probably leaning towards #2.  Cheers

----------


## Ross Nolan

I'd be keen for either.

Well done for putting the time in.

----------


## Rich007

I'd be keen on either, but #2 sound the simplest,

Rich

----------


## res

I would go either option

----------


## kristopher

I would go with option 2 , thanks  :Thumbsup:

----------


## widerange

option 2 sounds good

----------


## burtonator

option 2 sounds good

----------


## rupert

either option.

----------


## Klhari

Id be interested in either option. Thanks for offering

----------


## planenutz

I've been through the planning stage a couple of times and the controller is definitely where I stumble. Either option would be appreciated please.

----------


## MGNZ

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like there are enough interested people to justify getting some pre-assembled units out of China. I've made some good progress on it - sending out for quote today.

I've kept it super simple using common through hole components to keep cost and assembly complexity low. Parts are available from Jaycar for those wanting to assemble their own.

Interested in any feedback on what features may be missing or needed by some - but be quick  :Wink: 

This is how she looks now:


Schematic for those interested: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5k7ur58vu...oller.pdf?dl=0

----------


## MGNZ

Well, the real things have arrived.

For those that expressed interest in blank PCBs or built units, send me a PM.

----------


## MGNZ

Thanks for the follow up PM's. It's cool that quite a few members are keen to build one.

For anyone else interested, this is how the costs worked out for a small PCB order:

1. Blank PCB - $17 - buy all the other parts yourself (reset chip and MOSFETs not available from Jaycar.)
2. Blank PCB plus the reset chip and 2x MOSFETs - $22 - buy the other parts yourself from Jaycar
3. Built unit - $60 (Still needs the Arduino board)
4. Arduino Uno board - $7 (from China)

I've also put a couple of doc's together here:
Cartridge Case Annealer - Parts wiring and use.pdf
Cartridge Case Annealer - Electronic Controller Assembly Guide.pdf



Cheers
Mark

----------


## johnd

Very awesome job Mark !
I would like to add that you shouldnt power it up without the coil installed for the case to fit through or the ZVS board gets very angry.
As I have a spare ZVS board I will get one of the made up modules from you.

----------


## johnd

For any budding coil makers I have a mod that helps protect the coil from damage and helps hold it straight, and aligns the case inside the coil.
It is a ceramic cup / lens for tig welding








You can pick up a pair for around $10 at NZIG this size fits a .308 case well

----------


## Klhari

Great idea.

----------


## ANTSMAN

Primo- has anyone else finished theirs?

----------


## johnd

@ANTSMAN @Klhari @rupert @burtonator

Did any of you proceed with an annealer ? Did you manage to get a *48V power supply?*
I am having a hell of a wait for my one, and I have a mate wanting me to put one together for him.
If anyone got one straight away I would be keen to know where from?

----------


## Klhari

Still waiting for my parts too.

----------


## Walker

Nope, been waiting 4weeks now.

----------


## Sonicjoe

Just got my 48v power supply today.  Ordered on the 22nd of April from AliExpress.
There is light at the end of the tunnel!

----------


## johnd

I ordered mine on the 15 March, and it  has supposedly left China and in transit to NZ  but that was on the 22 March. I have a funny feeling it aint turning up any time soon. @Sonicjoe did you order the one listed by MGNZ? or another shop ?

----------


## Sonicjoe

> I ordered mine on the 15 March, and it  has supposedly left China and in transit to NZ  but that was on the 22 March. I have a funny feeling it aint turning up any time soon. @Sonicjoe did you order the one listed by MGNZ? or another shop ?


Same one listed.

----------


## Mick Hunter

Ive had 3 of my 11 packages arrive so far, including the 48v power supply. Mine was the same one MGNZ listed

----------


## johnd

Thanks guys I will try them.

----------


## Mick Hunter

What’s every one going to make their boxes from or use To put the bits into?

----------


## MGNZ

Still waiting on the second lot of Arduino boards to arrive from china to get out to those still waiting. The boat from China is slooooooow at the moment.

14 NZHS members are building annealers - keen to see what everyone comes up with!

----------


## ckp

This is a great project. A couple of quick questions though, firstly, is this something that is relatively idiot-proof?
Secondly, can it be programmed to do a couple of wildcat cases? I have a m1 carbine case necked to 17 cal and a slightly shortened
6.5 carcano case necked to 22 and 6 mm.

Thanks

----------


## MGNZ

It really depends on the idiot  :Psmiley:  I know some complete idiots that would probably electrocute themselves or burn their house down. 

It definitely requires some practical skills to build it. Making the box, making a case holder and dropping mechanism if you go that far, wiring the electrics etc. 

IMO a practical Kiwi who tinkers in their garage, services their car, does work on the house should be sweet - it's definitely not an off-the-shelf product.

The programming can be setup for any oddball case. The 2 variables are anneal time and case height within the work coil - both of these are dialed in by the user using Tempilaq.





> This is a great project. A couple of quick questions though, firstly, is this something that is relatively idiot-proof?
> Secondly, can it be programmed to do a couple of wildcat cases? I have a m1 carbine case necked to 17 cal and a slightly shortened
> 6.5 carcano case necked to 22 and 6 mm.
> 
> Thanks

----------


## Mick Hunter

What is the internal diameter of the new coil we need to make? Same as the one that comes with the induction board but just a smaller tube?

----------


## johnd

> What is the internal diameter of the new coil we need to make? Same as the one that comes with the induction board but just a smaller tube?


 @Mick Hunter the diameter is a lot smaller .... more like a broom handle (28 mm )

----------


## MGNZ

Some info here for the coil i wound for my setup:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ccgn1x5fq...20use.pdf?dl=1

----------


## MGNZ

I have a couple of blank PCB's left if you're keen to build one? I could also build one up if needed.




> Are there any boards for these still spare?  Since I find myself with a large amount of time with a damaged hip I'm looking at this and going hmmmmm... Cheers

----------


## johnd

Here is my annealer using MGNZ's shield design. I have mounted it all in an ACM case I designed. 

The blue LED you see when the annealer is running is taken directly from the ZVS board to give a visual clue that the board is working ( or more correctly.... hasnt stopped working should the solid state relay fail closed ...letting the device run constantly ) Which was an issue with my first device. 

MGNZ reprogrammed the mode switch for me so I can run the drop gate on demand function ( arduino codeing is still above my intellect )

There have been several variations to what I now have .... starting with an old PC case then onto a wooden box and settling on the ACM paneling 
The arduino shield was the real game changer for me and allows for a host of very available and low cost features, the servo making for a very simple drop case mechanism, an area of design I had struggled with.


https://youtu.be/DHoOlHEuPuY

----------


## Mick Hunter

Very nice.
Haven’t started building mine yet. Still waiting on the temp sensor and the water pump but fear the water pump at least is never arriving so may have to look locally or have another go at aliexpress.
Nice box, is that Ali angle it all screws into to hold it together?

----------


## MGNZ

Nice work JohnD!

----------


## johnd

@Mick Hunter yep its 3mm thich Ali angle. I threaded all the holes to make it easier to bolt up.

Lets see some other creations!!

----------


## MGNZ

I have moved all the induction annealer build documentation, parts list etc. to a more permanent website as my dropbox links keep getting broken.

https://www.mgnz-makes.com/

----------


## MGNZ

Quick update on this project. I'm starting to work on an automatic case feeder design add-on for the annealer. The plan is to 3D print the parts and provide the CAD for others. The feeding mechanism is going to be driven by a single servo connected to the arduino and synchronised with the free-run mode in the software. The case will be picked from the hopper and then dropped down a tube into the annealing coil.

This is the start of the CAD:

----------


## planenutz

Nice. I look forward to seeing how this develops.

Good thinking @MGNZ

----------


## MGNZ

Still have a few feed bugs to work out, but not bad for a first run.

https://youtu.be/BujviMWKw0o

----------


## MGNZ

Much better feed reliability with 260 cases.

https://youtu.be/NZUAKkAxfk4

----------


## planenutz

Clicked "like" but was thinking we need an "excellent" option instead.

Nice work.

----------


## 300CALMAN

> Much better feed reliability with 260 cases.
> 
> https://youtu.be/NZUAKkAxfk4


Maybe the edges of the case slot need to be taperd outward a bit?

----------


## MGNZ

> Maybe the edges of the case slot need to be taperd outward a bit?


Yeah, was thinking the same thing. Or widening the slot a bit to accept slightly skewed cases. The orange outer wheel is removable without tools to allow for different case size versions to be swapped out.

Also noticed that 4 of the 300WM cases will bind across the top of the wheel - whereas the 260 doesn't. May also be contributing to the problem.

Slowing the servo sweep might also help a bit too.

----------


## Mick Hunter

Question for those that have done their annealers.

What wall thickness copper pipe did you use for your coils? I bought some 1/8 copper tube that has a 30 thou wall thickness and the pump won’t pump through the coil. It pumps fine through everything else.

Have just ordered some other 1/8 tube with a 14 thou wall thickness from a hobby shop which will give me more volume / less restriction through the coil.

Anyone remember what you used?

----------


## johnd

@Mick Hunter I used 1/8 (3.2mm) with a wall thickness of .03 thou (.76mm).
Works good, maybe your pump isnt up to that? Can you blow through it? you can probably get it to gravity feed too. I have made 4 coils with  this dia pump works on all of them.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...1c674c4dtYpyNP

Watch you dont flatten the thinner wall tubing, try getting it warm when you start bending it.

----------


## Mick Hunter

Thanks John, Yes I can blow through it. The tubing I have ordered i think will present more problems as it is only 300mm so I can see a join coming with wont be easy.
Will keep looking for some longer thinner tube

----------


## johnd

Those copper tube water cooled contraptions are sooo last year  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 

https://youtu.be/YbcZFDYERic

----------


## johnd

I will have some 750"F templaq turning up next week for those guys that wanted it.
Ideally 4 people would be grate then I havent lost any money!

So far I have  @Mick Hunter @Morepork @kristopher

Anyone else $25 plus postage? first person to reply on here can be the 4th.

----------


## Tentman

I'll go with it thanks John.  Please let me know the payment details.  Cheers

----------


## MGNZ

Finally have the automatic case feeder up and running. It really speeds up throughput!

Video below of Greg's annealer in operation from Wombat ordnance.

https://youtu.be/GqYSRLfobHQ

----------


## planenutz

> Finally have the automatic case feeder up and running. It really speeds up throughput!


That a pretty nice setup you've got running there. Well done.

 :Thumbsup:

----------


## Mick Hunter

Right. Finally got my copper from aliexpress and got round to making the coil. Still not convinces its working properly as  the water is only dribbling back into the resivour.

I have wired the temp sensor in, where do in need to put the sensor part of that? What are we temp sensing?

What current are you getting out of your induction boards? Mine is running about 8 amps and the initial testing is taking about 7.5 seconds to anneal a 708 case with the colour change just down past the bottom of  shoulder

----------


## johnd

So after a few cases have been run through, is the coil hot? If it is then the water cooling isnt working, If iys still cool to the touch its probably doing its job.
After 5 cases or so without cooling it would be hot to touch.

I want to know how hot the capacitor bank is getting ( the black plastic bits ( 6 of them usually)) So I use a hot glue gun run between the two banks of 3.
If the capacitors get to hot that will kill the board. Your 8 amps sounds about right. I get 6 to 7.5 on .308 cases, but your case mouth will be a wee bit further from the coil than mine hence the slightly longer time in your case Pun intended :Pacman:

----------


## Roelie

Hi John,what coils did you use there?

----------


## jake8587

Is this thread dead? I just ordered my board with the UNO pre-programmed from MGNZ and waiting for it to show up so I can start my build. Did anyone think about adding an optical sensor above the case to measure the temp of the brass?

----------


## andyanimal31

> Is this thread dead? I just ordered my board with the UNO pre-programmed from MGNZ and waiting for it to show up so I can start my build. Did anyone think about adding an optical sensor above the case to measure the temp of the brass?


Out of interest sake read Alex Finlays book about his journey Into making his annealer.
by the time you have fucked up a whole lot of brass it would be cheaper to by one of his and get perfect results first time every time

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

----------


## jake8587

Just wondering has anyone built this annealer using the RC servo to drop the case? How did you adjust the degree ?

----------


## jake8587

If I had an extra $1500 I could buy a lot of brass to fuck up. I do believe it is a very nice tool, but I know a lot of F-class shooters got buy with flame annealers before the Amp came out, yes they has sense replaced it with a AMP. But they had tobstart some where.

----------


## SixtyTen

I have built multiple induction annealers using induction boards, power supplies and timers from Ebay. Total cost in parts to make one is generally around $400NZD

Latest one has an auto feed with case sensor that can be adjusted to feed anything from pistol cases to large ultra mag cases. Case is made from plywood and painted to look nice, water cooling on the induction coil using a small water pump and radiator.

Anyone who is interested, google the GinaErik induction annealer. There are also other designs using Arduino boards for the timing and control, which if you are going to use an auto feeder, I would recommend.


The AMP is a cool machine and good on the guys for getting them out internationally. However, in my opinion, they are overstating and overcomplicating the annealing process, which is pretty simple really. Using 2 different temp grades of Tempilaq, you can fine tune the annealers I have made to get perfect and consistent results for a new case in a few min, risking only 1 or 2 pieces of brass, and often not ruining even one. I keep a log book of the settings for different cases and can reset the machine to a different case in about 1min.

In my experience, the flame annealers are a pain in the ass to setup every time, induction is so much better.

----------


## andyanimal31

> I have built multiple induction annealers using induction boards, power supplies and timers from Ebay. Total cost in parts to make one is generally around $400NZD
> 
> Latest one has an auto feed with case sensor that can be adjusted to feed anything from pistol cases to large ultra mag cases. Case is made from plywood and painted to look nice, water cooling on the induction coil using a small water pump and radiator.
> 
> Anyone who is interested, google the GinaErik induction annealer. There are also other designs using Arduino boards for the timing and control, which if you are going to use an auto feeder, I would recommend.
> 
> 
> The AMP is a cool machine and good on the guys for getting them out internationally. However, in my opinion, they are overstating and overcomplicating the annealing process, which is pretty simple really. Using 2 different temp grades of Tempilaq, you can fine tune the annealers I have made to get perfect and consistent results for a new case in a few min, risking only 1 or 2 pieces of brass, and often not ruining even one. I keep a log book of the settings for different cases and can reset the machine to a different case in about 1min.
> 
> In my experience, the flame annealers are a pain in the ass to setup every time, induction is so much better.


Spend a few dollars on Alex's book.
You will enjoy it guaranteed.

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

----------


## jake8587

> Spend a few dollars on Alex's book.
> You will enjoy it guaranteed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk


I have read a bunch about the AMP annealer and it seems they are using a hardness test to determine at what time the brass reaches the same hardness as the new piece. I am not a programmer so I have no idea how they have this look-up file setup, but there has to be a table the computer uses. This is an interesting watch if you have the time. Care to share your copy? I will pay the shipping to and back?
https://youtu.be/SF0YmmeEJK4

----------


## sixpointfiveLR

Hello, I'd like to get into reloading and looked at some DIY solutions online.  I came across this thread after quite a bit of browsing, and would like to say that this solution looks great! I tried to download the schematic but the dropbox link says it's deleted.  I like DIY projects, and wanted to know if there is a PCB file available for download so I can get the PCB created and start building this.

Appreciate responses and your time.

Cheers.

----------


## jake8587

https://www.mgnz-makes.com/ you can order the pre-made board here with or without the UNO.

----------


## Van

Just to add if anybody is interested, I built an annealer a while back that's very similar to the one described using the same parts etc. I wanted to take the guess work out of temps and the trial and error involved. 

I decided to use an IR temp sensor mounted above the coil to measure the case temp. I used the MLX90614 IR temperature sensor which gives you a range of -70 to 380C. The coil is on constantly, but the brass drops when it reaches 380C. 

If anybody has found a reasonably priced IR temp sensor that goes higher I'd like to know about it.

----------


## jake8587

In the final stags of building my annealer. However, I have run into a problem connecting the negative (-) side of the induction board to the Amp probe, the suggested wire size is >2mm² but this diameter wire is way to large to connect to the probe. What and how did you connect it?

----------


## jake8587

Ok, I need some help. I got everything connected and powered up but I get nothing on the display none of the less on the switches light up. Doubled checked and triple checked all the connection and they are correct. There is 12v going to the Arduino shield board and the green LED is lit. Any suggestion what to test for next? I even tried a new UNO and reflashed the UNO that came with the shield.

----------


## T.FOYE

That's a real achievement eh. Well done!

----------


## johnd

Do you get any volts on any of the arduino outputs Can you press the strat button to get any V change. Sounds like something is shorted out. Where is the 12 V supply for the arduino coming from. what is supplying the ZVS portion with its higher voltage.

This thread has been pretty inactive i would suggest a look at accurate shooter there is an active (150 page) thread on the gina attric that these builds were designed off.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/th...3908353/unread

----------

