# Outdoors > Other outdoors, sports, huts and tracks >  Lost for a month

## 223nut

Just heard the ads for the news tonight, something about a lady surviving a month after er husband fell off the routeburn track and she was lost in the bush... Doesn't sound right to me, alone in the bush with no food for a month with the amount of snow around. Will update after the news

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## K95

He fell and died, she made it back to a hut and broke into the wardens hut. No one came past due to heavy snow, czech embassy raised the alarm and she was rescued. Bloody long time to be out there alone after an incident like that.

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## SiB

We are forever reminded to 'stay put and don't wander off' if shit happens. 

By the sounds of it, she did the right thing.

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## 223nut

> He fell and died, she made it back to a hut and broke into the wardens hut. No one came past due to heavy snow, czech embassy raised the alarm and she was rescued. Bloody long time to be out there alone after an incident like that.


Ahhh ok. 

Incidents like that I sometimes wonder if he fell or was pushed.... I know it's mean but

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## erniec

You are not alone with those thoughts.

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## 223nut

Bit odd no one noticed a car left in the carpark for a month as well

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## Barefoot

Well unless you visited the carpark a few times that month why would you notice.
And given the time of the year that wasn't likely to happen.
As for the other aspects of the story, hmmmmm.

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## GravelBen

> We are forever reminded to 'stay put and don't wander off' if shit happens. 
> 
> By the sounds of it, she did the right thing.


Sitting in a hut for an entire month instead of following a track (great walk, practically a highway) a few hours to the road to find help seems a pretty strange decision though. Seems more likely to me that she had some kind of breakdown after her husband died and just couldn't bring herself to make any decisions at all.

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## 223nut

> Sitting in a hut for an entire month instead of following a track (great walk, practically a highway) a few hours to the road to find help seems a pretty strange decision though. Seems more likely to me that she had some kind of breakdown after her husband died and just couldn't bring herself to make any decisions at all.


Was wondering why she didn't walk out, bit of snow but not that much. Or she was waiting for any evidence that she pushed him to get buried / decompose with her husband's body

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## Shearer

I think she was injured too. Took her days to get a couple of kms to the hunt.

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## veitnamcam

Havent heard/read the story only whats on here but going by what information is on here it smells fishy,month old fish jammed under the pound belt fishy.

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## Friwi

Any phone signal around that area?

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## Frogfeatures

She spent a couple of nights out in the open after he died.
Mild frostbite, and then made it back to the hut.
Sounds like she had some kind of mental breakdown ?
I agree, it sounds a bit weird, but where we are at home in the back country, a tourist might be less so.
I guess time will make things clearer.

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## BobGibson

Took her three days to travel 2km to the Hut in +1m snow which would have completely covered any sign of the track in a LOT of places
Imagine sleeping out in that and being injured.
One tough lady in my book.
She also did exactly the right thing in staying put where there was shelter and food. 
Sure its no far from the hut to the road end but she had no idea of the condition of the track and given what she had endured to get to the hut why would see move from there.
Don't think there is anything suspect in her story.
Another reason why you should always carry a PLB

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## chindit

If she is sensible she will write a book, sell the story to some film maker and reap the rewards

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## Gapped axe

tough Bird

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## GravelBen

> Took her three days to travel 2km to the Hut in +1m snow which would have completely covered any sign of the track in a LOT of places
> Imagine sleeping out in that and being injured.


Just read that extra information now too, makes a bit more sense than the initial report.

Kinda surprised they even got to Harris Saddle if there was that much snow up there, heaps of avalanche paths cross the track where it sidles across the bluffs to the saddle.

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## sako75

It will be in the Readers Digest and a movie will be made of it
She did it hard

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## kristopher

We just don't know the full story, state of mind, weather conditions, the shock suffered when the event unfolded before her.
However it brings up the question of insurance cover (rescue cover) that you have to take when venturing into National Parks and other outdoor activities which is mandatory in Europe.

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## EeeBees

Oh boy...imagine how she must have felt...and we all know about how hypothermia can affect the sensibilities...and the lost of her husband...

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## BobGibson

Blood hell Chinese whispers again!!!
No where to my knowledge has the dead guy been identified as the woman's husband.
I believe their association was no more than traveling companions.
 :Thumbsup:

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## puku

> Blood hell Chinese whispers again!!!
> No where to my knowledge has the dead guy been identified as the woman's husband.
> I believe their association was no more than traveling companions.


Yes,  all I heard was tramping partner also

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## Rushy

Pssst wing chow tan hong foo!  (More Chinese whispers). The gal has grit guys.  No need to speculate beyond that.  The whole story will out in the end.

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## K95

I came across a tramper half starved and mentally exhausted at a hut 2 hrs from the road during the roar, been there 4 days and was on the 11th day of his expected 5 day walk. Just a foreigner way out of his depth and experience, lead into a dangerous situation by a lack of available current information. I'm kind of shocked some of you guys would even suggest the idea of murder...

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## 223nut

I don't think murder is what happened here, mentioned it as I have thought some of the 'accident' may not have been in the past. Tough chick living in a hut alone for a month, she deserves credit for that. As tussock said, it's a bad look for nz that she can be there for a month and no-one alerted authorities. 

Good point about not being husband, I had assumed!

It is another case of overseas tourists underestimating the conditions that the new Zealand alpine environments can produce.

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## gimp

> I came across a tramper half starved and mentally exhausted at a hut 2 hrs from the road during the roar, been there 4 days and was on the 11th day of his expected 5 day walk. Just a foreigner way out of his depth and experience, lead into a dangerous situation by a lack of available current information. I'm kind of shocked some of you guys would even suggest the idea of murder...


Was that the American chap I met?

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## Jack_

> I joked "don't ride bikes here we hate them". We know they said. Explained they had bikes in the North Island but people abused them verbally and someone forced them off the road and told them it was illegal


That isn't funny.

NZer's attitude to cyclists is fucking disgusting and it needs to change.

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## veitnamcam

> Its not a bad look for New Zealand, just shitty luck for her. Still, there could be dozens out there. Shit vans full of Europeans everywhere.
> 
> I gave a lift to two extremely downtrodden 18 year old german girls hitch hiking south into a Southerly with a sign that said they wanted to go east. They had a large bag of food and someone else had spotted their pup tent in a carpark. Their total budget appeared to be about $10. I joked "don't ride bikes here we hate them". We know they said. Explained they had bikes in the North Island but people abused them verbally and someone forced them off the road and told them it was illegal They looked broken. 
> 
> I doubt they lived. 
> 
> I'm mildly sick of being dismissed by foreigners who think they know better when offered local knowledge.


They were probably riding/hitching on a Motorway....see it here all the time, tho our 2 lane "motorway" probably looks like a quaint country road to most foreigners.

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## tetawa

> That isn't funny.
> 
> NZer's attitude to cyclists is fucking disgusting and it needs to change.


My attitude won't change as long as the attitude of many cyclists is that the road is there for them only.

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## 223nut

She said in her interview 'partner' not husband

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## K95

> Was that the American chap I met?


English. He had arrived in Hokitika and asked at the DoC office for information on the track but was told they know nothing of the track conditions in the Hokitika area and he must go away and do his own research. He insisted on talking to someone about the tracks but was turned away. He then googled the route and got a mix of information most of which was not accurate and set off on his trip. Search and Rescue was after him in the notar the day I got him across the river and on his way. 

What's worse is that he left intentions at his hostel and they reported him overdue to the Police and the Police drove out to the carpark and left a note on his windscreen asking him to call them when he gets out. He ended up 6 days overdue before Search and Rescue began looking.

A work mate had the same experience in the same area two years ago, 4 days overdue and his wife still couldn't persuade the Police to begin a search. Had to ring a friend and he organised a helicopter. 

Not a good look.

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## 223nut

> English. He had arrived in Hokitika and asked at the DoC office for information on the track but was told they know nothing of the track conditions in the Hokitika area and he must go away and do his own research. He insisted on talking to someone about the tracks but was turned away. He then googled the route and got a mix of information most of which was not accurate and set off on his trip. Search and Rescue was after him in the notar the day I got him across the river and on his way. 
> 
> What's worse is that he left intentions at his hostel and they reported him overdue to the Police and the Police drove out to the carpark and left a note on his windscreen asking him to call them when he gets out. He ended up 6 days overdue before Search and Rescue began looking.
> 
> A work mate had the same experience in the same area two years ago, 4 days overdue and his wife still couldn't persuade the Police to begin a search. Had to ring a friend and he organised a helicopter. 
> 
> Not a good look.


Wow, that a different stance to what I experienced on Stewart island. No contact on radio or spot device for 3 days and the chopper showed up, no need for it but comforting to know that they were there

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## Jack_

> My attitude won't change as long as the attitude of many cyclists is that the road is there for them only.


There's douchebags on either side of the fence and you are right, there's a few dumbass cyclists around. 

A lot of habits that cyclists have that seem annoying though is literally to keep them alive. If everyone knew how wide their vehicle was, was aware of their surroundings, checked their mirrors, didn't enter their own blind spots and would always pass at a safe distance then cyclists would have far less annoying habits. They claim the road sometimes. They need to in order to not die. You might need to slow down your car sometimes for them, but slowing down for a little bit is not much of an inconvenience compared to getting run over or dying.

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## veitnamcam

find/build shelter and wait it out is great advice if one has left a trip plan with someone who gives a shit and will get a search started if you dont turn up near the time you were sopost to.

If you are in a wild and strange new country with nobody to look out for you a PLB should be a minimum and insurance to pay for the rescue.

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## tetawa

> There's douchebags on either side of the fence and you are right, there's a few dumbass cyclists around. 
> 
> A lot of habits that cyclists have that seem annoying though is literally to keep them alive. If everyone knew how wide their vehicle was, was aware of their surroundings, checked their mirrors, didn't enter their own blind spots and would always pass at a safe distance then cyclists would have far less annoying habits. They claim the road sometimes. They need to in order to not die. You might need to slow down your car sometimes for them, but slowing down for a little bit is not much of an inconvenience compared to getting run over or dying.


When they ride with 3 metres of good seal on their left on a hi-way I can only conclude they are trying their best to shorten their time on this earth. Plus the ones whose bikes are grossly overloaded with saddle bags etc trying to pedal up a slight rise and for every forward metre they wobble sideways 2 metres, they don't seem concerned with their own life expectancy. I sometimes conclude that they don't realise what a flimsy machine without any protection they are operating among heavy traffic, but good old ACC and the NZ tax payer will bandage them up for free if they survive.

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## gimp

> English. He had arrived in Hokitika and asked at the DoC office for information on the track but was told they know nothing of the track conditions in the Hokitika area and he must go away and do his own research. He insisted on talking to someone about the tracks but was turned away. He then googled the route and got a mix of information most of which was not accurate and set off on his trip. Search and Rescue was after him in the notar the day I got him across the river and on his way. 
> 
> What's worse is that he left intentions at his hostel and they reported him overdue to the Police and the Police drove out to the carpark and left a note on his windscreen asking him to call them when he gets out. He ended up 6 days overdue before Search and Rescue began looking.
> 
> A work mate had the same experience in the same area two years ago, 4 days overdue and his wife still couldn't persuade the Police to begin a search. Had to ring a friend and he organised a helicopter. 
> 
> Not a good look.


Doesn't sound like he went to the DOC office, maybe the I-site

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## veitnamcam

> Doesn't sound like he went to the DOC office, maybe the I-site


It is a pretty standard DOC response.

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## Jack_

> they don't seem concerned with their own life expectancy.


I find it's usually the drivers that aren't concerned with the cyclist's life expectancy. Not sure why it means so little to them - your car is just as dangerous as a firearm and is much more likely to kill someone. Not giving cyclists respect and utmost care is just as bad as not identifying your target before you pull the trigger. If someone is doing something that makes me frustrated or angry then I pretend it's my mum and act accordingly. Once you add a bit of empathy to a situation you often gain a better perspective.

Roads have always been for many forms of transport. Not all of them can do the speed limit.

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## 7mmsaum

> I find it's usually the drivers that aren't concerned with the cyclist's life expectancy. Not sure why it means so little to them - your car is just as dangerous as a firearm and is much more likely to kill someone. Not giving cyclists respect and utmost care is just as bad as not identifying your target before you pull the trigger. If someone is doing something that makes me frustrated or angry then I pretend it's my mum and act accordingly. Once you add a bit of empathy to a situation you often gain a better perspective.
> 
> Roads have always been for many forms of transport. Not all of them can do the speed limit.


If we apply your logic in its entirety then cycling on our major roads is the same as walking up and down a firing lane at a shooting range, while others are shooting.

Both are silly things to do and extremely dangerous

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## veitnamcam

> I find it's usually the drivers that aren't concerned with the cyclist's life expectancy. Not sure why it means so little to them - your car is just as dangerous as a firearm and is much more likely to kill someone. Not giving cyclists respect and utmost care is just as bad as not identifying your target before you pull the trigger. If someone is doing something that makes me frustrated or angry then I pretend it's my mum and act accordingly. Once you add a bit of empathy to a situation you often gain a better perspective.
> 
> Roads have always been for many forms of transport. Not all of them can do the speed limit.


Cyclists piss me of immensely! 

For some background as a young fella I had a big old V8 and a scooter, on apprentice wages the v8 was for the weekends and the scooter was for weekdays.
I lived in the country and my mates lived in the city, I could ride one handed at full throttle for around 50 minutes usually pissed in the dark from my mates place to mine and get up in the morning and go to work all on that bit of spare tarseal left of the fog line, sometimes its a foot wide some times its meters wide but with very few exceptions its always there.
Point is if I could ride a scooter usually pissed( dont berate me it was the done thing back then) all that distance at all hours keeping out of traffics way why do usually 2-10 cyclists have to ride in the middle of the road and not pull out of the way!!!!!

Hey if you ever meet me you will know I am one of the most laid back cruisy guys you could ever meet but if anything ever makes me snap it will be a fucking cyclist in the middle of the fucking road that wont move over!

FFS they even ignore signs directing them off of the main highway on bridges and ride the bloody bridge....should be ticketed ...oh wait no bloody number plate to *555 the cunts either.

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## veitnamcam

I also ride a bike occasionally,on the left of the fog line.

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## Jack_

Sorry what's your argument 'nam? you used to ride your scooter drunk? Goodo.




> If we apply your logic in its entirety then cycling on our major roads is the same as walking up and down a firing lane at a shooting range, while others are shooting.
> 
> Both are silly things to do and extremely dangerous


You shouldn't reasonable expect random members of the public to be found in the middle of a shooting range. Roads are a bit different.

I'd say it's more like shooting while on a popular walking track. You better be damn sure what you're doing is safe.

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## Pengy

> English. He had arrived in Hokitika and asked at the DoC office for information on the track but was told they know nothing of the track conditions in the Hokitika area and he must go away and do his own research. He insisted on talking to someone about the tracks but was turned away. He then googled the route and got a mix of information most of which was not accurate and set off on his trip. Search and Rescue was after him in the notar the day I got him across the river and on his way. 
> 
> What's worse is that he left intentions at his hostel and they reported him overdue to the Police and the Police drove out to the carpark and left a note on his windscreen asking him to call them when he gets out. He ended up 6 days overdue before Search and Rescue began looking.
> 
> A work mate had the same experience in the same area two years ago, 4 days overdue and his wife still couldn't persuade the Police to begin a search. Had to ring a friend and he organised a helicopter. 
> 
> Not a good look.



Not a good look at all  :Sad:

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## veitnamcam

> Sorry what's your argument 'nam? you used to ride your scooter drunk? Goodo.
> 
> 
> 
> You shouldn't reasonable expect random members of the public to be found in the middle of a shooting range. Roads are a bit different.
> 
> I'd say it's more like shooting while on a popular walking track. You better be damn sure what you're doing is safe.


The point is it  is very easy to use the road safely on a two wheeled vehicle without actually using the "road" and inconveniencing everyone who is actually paying for the road.

May there always be a campervan in  front of you.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Jack_

> The point is it  is very easy to use the road safely on a two wheeled vehicle without actually using the "road" and inconveniencing everyone who is actually paying for the road.


Behavior that seems odd to you is often in the name of safety. Cyclists that ride in the shoulder are often the ones that are hit. Cyclists that make their presence known don't get it. I ride in the shoulder when it's safe, I ride slightly out from the shoulder if the road is curvy so it forces drivers to consciously recognise me and only pass when it's safe, at which point I'll gladly get out of the way and give you a wave. And I'll take the lane when it's completely unsafe to pass, and I can reach a speed similar to that of traffic. I'll annoy the occasional person, but it's all in the name of safety, and even if drivers don't really understand the behaviour it does work. Also in town, I have to give about a metre between myself and the cars parked on the left. My girlfriend was thrown under the wheels of a bus because she didn't know this, someone opened their door and toppled her into the lane. Riding slowly in the cycle lane, out of the way of cars, almost dead. She was under the front bumper, but the bus stopped in time and she didn't go under the wheels. A friend of mine was killed in wellington when a driver cut the corner at a roundabout a few years ago. He was riding in the shoulder. As I said, cyclists ride the way they do for a reason.

Most cyclists own at least one car, so they're paying for their fair share - and they're on a bike, which at the end of the day inconveniences you less than if they did all of their journeys in a car and got in your way that way instead. If you're wanting to get into the user pays aspect then start hounding the truckies - trucks damage the road more than anyone, cause roadworks, pull out in front of people, and drive slower than the speed limit.




> May there always be a campervan in  front of you.


Maybe that's the difference between us. I'd still buy you a beer at the pub, talk some shit and wish you no ill will. But campervans? That's harsh man. Harsh.

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## veitnamcam

> Most cyclists own at least one car, so they're paying for their fair share - and they're on a bike, which at the end of the day inconveniences you less than if they did all of their journeys in a car and got in your way that way instead. If you're wanting to get into the user pays aspect then start hounding the truckies - trucks damage the road more than anyone, cause roadworks, pull out in front of people, and drive slower than the speed limit.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's the difference between us. I'd still buy you a beer at the pub, talk some shit and wish you no ill will.


trucks pay more for the road than the rest of us combined probably. $20,000 a day in road user only is not uncommon for a average trucking company.
I would rather follow a truck threw the likes of the buller gorge than a campervan or some twat in a volvo or mercedes suv, truckys know the road and drive at the limit carrying speed threw the corners.

Pull ya head out of your arse.

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## 308

Maybe that's the difference between us. I'd still buy you a beer at the pub, talk some shit and wish you no ill will.


-and not realise you're being annoying as fuck?

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## Jack_

Can't help it man, I'd be the same annoying fuck on a biking forum if someone started joking about how you shouldn't go walking in the hills because you'll get shot by "one of those dimwitted hunters"  :Have A Nice Day:

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## veitnamcam

> Maybe that's the difference between us. I'd still buy you a beer at the pub, talk some shit and wish you no ill will. But campervans? That's harsh man. Harsh.


Me too unless you had just held me up for half an hour, if you had a license plate at least I could invoice you for my time.

Camper-vans are generally more courteous than cyclists as they like to stop and get out while parked in the middle of one lane bridges to take photos.

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## GravelBen

> Behavior that seems odd to you is often in the name of safety.


Sometimes yes... other times its just what some of them tell themselves when they're actually just being arrogant and selfish for no good reason. If they 'need' 3 or 4 times as much space as I'm comfortable with when I'm on a bike then the problem isn't the cars, its them. Its a bit like drivers who try to stop anybody from passing them because they're driving at a 'safe' speed (like 70) and think anyone who wants to go faster is dangerous.

I always found bus drivers the worst when I was biking regularly, it was like they were actively trying to hit me.

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## veitnamcam

> Sometimes yes... other times its just what some of them tell themselves when they're actually just being arrogant and selfish for no good reason. If they 'need' 3 or 4 times as much space as I'm comfortable with when I'm on a bike then the problem isn't the cars, its them. Its a bit like drivers who try to stop anybody from passing them because they're driving at a 'safe' speed (like 70) and think anyone who wants to go faster is dangerous.
> 
> I always found bus drivers the worst when I was biking regularly, it was like they were actively trying to hit me.


Exactly!

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## veitnamcam

Just saw the short clip on the news.
A harrowing experience for her for sure.
But to not be able to get out for a month? she tried to make some snow shoes?

Smells like under prepared for NZ.

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## gadgetman

My pushbike is my favourite means of transport, maybe tied with by boots nowadays. I agree with GB and VC, that there is mostly a place for cyclists on the road, but not always and sometimes we do need to be where the other motor vehicles are. But this is only where there is nowhere else to be. At these points it is the motor vehicle drivers responsibility to slow down and pass safely when safe to do so. Ride two or three abreast at these points is just not on.

Another one is driving fast around a bend and suddenly seeing a cyclist in front of you. That is the drivers fault as the rules are clear, on a road with a centre line you must be able to stop within the clear lane in front of you and if there is no centre line it is half that. If it was a tractor you went too fast round a blind bend and hit it may be you that doesn't come out to well.

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## veitnamcam

> My pushbike is my favourite means of transport, maybe tied with by boots nowadays. I agree with GB and VC, that there is mostly a place for cyclists on the road, but not always and sometimes we do need to be where the other motor vehicles are. But this is only where there is nowhere else to be. At these points it is the motor vehicle drivers responsibility to slow down and pass safely when safe to do so. Ride two or three abreast at these points is just not on.
> 
> Another one is driving fast around a bend and suddenly seeing a cyclist in front of you. That is the drivers fault as the rules are clear, on a road with a centre line you must be able to stop within the clear lane in front of you and if there is no centre line it is half that. If it was a tractor you went too fast round a blind bend and hit it may be you that doesn't come out to well.


I am pretty sure it is illegal or was? to ride more than 2 abreast.

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## gadgetman

> I am pretty sure it is illegal or was? to ride more than 2 abreast.


It is, and if the cyclists are passing parked vehicles it is illegal to ride more than single file.

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## veitnamcam

> I'm frequently under prepared for New Zealand. Shit happens. 
> 
> She is not dead, so she did good.


There is that but a plb would have saved her some time and maybe her partners life.

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## Jack_

PLBs are an interesting one. Half of me thinks they should be cheaper/subsidised, be advertised more, so that more people have them in situations like these. I'd be happy if some tax dollars went to cheapening safety equipment if it meant we didn't have either dead tourists or costly long searches at the other end.






Regarding the driving. If there's something in the middle of your lane on a blind corner you should be able to stop before you hit it. If you're white knuckled because you might run into something stationary in your lane you need to slow down. Could be a cyclist, a cow, your neighbors dog, a child...

Two abreast is rude as hell in many situations. No argument there.

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## gadgetman

PLB's are pretty cheap now at about NZ$300 with a 10 year battery life.

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## Jack_

As in: walk into a store, ask for a plb, swipe card for $300? Haven't seen them south of $450 personally.

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## Pengy

You haven't been looking very hard then Jack.

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## Pengy

For the record. The last time I checked the stats for sar callouts NZ wide, including maritime, overseas tourists actually accounted for a fairly small percentage overall.
That suggests that the natives are going bush or whatever, ill prepared, or ill equipped /trained. 
She`ll be right mate doesn't cut it .

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## 223nut

> I'm frequently under prepared for New Zealand. Shit happens. 
> 
> She is not dead, so she did good.


I always take enough to spend the night out, pack liner/bivy bag is the heaviest item and it's not that bad, doubles as a meat bag. Couple of extra layers and a silver blanket, fire kit etc. No excuse not to have it

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## 223nut

> For the record. The last time I checked the stats for sar callouts NZ wide, including maritime, overseas tourists actually accounted for a fairly small percentage overall.
> That suggests that the natives are going bush or whatever, ill prepared, or ill equipped /trained. 
> She`ll be right mate doesn't cut it .


Wonder if those stat's include the big operations, I.e. Trucks stuck up Waikaia, uses if kiwis get lost they do it in a big way!

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## Jack_

> Your not actually going to be a road cycling champ so put a mountain bike on the top of your 2016 ticked up Subaru Outlander and enjoy. NZs countless devoid of cars backcountry tracks which are everywhere.


Believe it or not I have three. No outlander though, more in the market for a truck. Roadie only gets used for commuting.






> You haven't been looking very hard then Jack.


Care to share? I'm obviously looking in the wrong place.

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## gadgetman

> As in: walk into a store, ask for a plb, swipe card for $300? Haven't seen them south of $450 personally.


That is the old and expensive way of shopping.

KTi SA2G NZ GPS Locator Beacon PLB - SkippersMate.co.nz

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## 223nut

> That is the old and expensive way of shopping.
> 
> KTi SA2G NZ GPS Locator Beacon PLB - SkippersMate.co.nz


+1 for skippers mate, brought two from them after the first was stolen

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## 257weatherby

> I find it's usually the drivers that aren't concerned with the cyclist's life expectancy. Not sure why it means so little to them - your car is just as dangerous as a firearm and is much more likely to kill someone. Not giving cyclists respect and utmost care is just as bad as not identifying your target before you pull the trigger. If someone is doing something that makes me frustrated or angry then I pretend it's my mum and act accordingly. Once you add a bit of empathy to a situation you often gain a better perspective.
> 
> Roads have always been for many forms of transport. Not all of them can do the speed limit.


The only good cyclist, is a flat one!

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## Jack_

> That is the old and expensive way of shopping.


Indeed, but it's the way most still do it. I wasn't really speaking for myself. (Thanks for the link though)





> The only good cyclist, is a flat one!


That's a bit of a rough thing to say after I'd just said I'd lost a mate that way.

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## kidmac42

> The only good cyclist, is a flat one!


 You guys never cease to amaze and scare me at how far off base these threads get. I do wonder why I am a member sometimes.

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## Rushy

> I do wonder why I am a member sometimes.


For me it is the entertainment value.

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## WhistlingWings

I used to fly a lot around the Routeburn. No Cell phone coverage at those huts. 
On one SAR last year , a nut job decided to walk from Glenorchy to Te Anau to find work. Out we go at about 4pm to search the Routeburn. I landed at each hut and the cops got out but no sign of him. Up towards Harris Saddle the DOC hut and Lodge were almost completely covered in snow. The track past Falls Lodge (below Harris towards GY) was barely visible due to the snow and there was signs of avalanches everywhere. We spent along time searching and had no luck. He ended up going back to Queenstown somehow. 
It was about this time of year. 
So there is a fair bit of snow up there, and the track wouldn't be easy to follow at all.

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## WhistlingWings

Sorry, bit lazy to type Glenorchy.  :36 1 11: 
Yeah, wasted a couple of hrs in the helicopter. But we had to go. 
We did see a pretty decent stag in the route burn though before he trotted off to the bush. About an 8 pointer, but a bloody big body  :Grin:

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## 257weatherby

> You guys never cease to amaze and scare me at how far off base these threads get. I do wonder why I am a member sometimes.


Ok, so why?

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## kidmac42

I originally joined whilst a little bored one day, I stayed because I was learning, enjoying like minded people, and also light hearted ribbing etc.
 I don't like it when people go way over the top. It shows severe narrow mindedness and can offend some quite seriously.

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## hilz77

> If you're wanting to get into the user pays aspect then start hounding the truckies - trucks damage the road more than anyone, cause roadworks, pull out in front of people, and drive slower than the speed limit.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's the difference between us. I'd still buy you a beer at the pub, talk some shit and wish you no ill will. But campervans? That's harsh man. Harsh.


You are joking about trucks aren't you? Have you any idea how much more it actually is to run one of them. Pull out in front of people. Righto, at 22 metres long sometimes you have to make the gap, never in a dangerous manner but sometimes you have to otherwise your sitting there all day. Drive slower than the speed limit. No shit, when you're loaded at 50t you would want to be pretty cautious. 
Its riding 2 wide, sometimes even 3 wide that gets me. What the actual fuck. Do you ever see two cars driving side by side having a good old chin wag. Get out of the way.

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## Rushy

> You are joking about trucks aren't you? Have you any idea how much more it actually is to run one of them. Pull out in front of people. Righto, at 22 metres long sometimes you have to make the gap, never in a dangerous manner but sometimes you have to otherwise your sitting there all day. Drive slower than the speed limit. No shit, when you're loaded at 50t you would want to be pretty cautious. 
> Its riding 2 wide, sometimes even 3 wide that gets me. What the actual fuck. Do you ever see two cars driving side by side having a good old chin wag. Get out of the way.


Good on ya hilz.  Truckies drive slower because the law says they have to (90 KPH limit).  Those speed signs you see on knarley corners are also for truckies (and not private motor cars) because if truckies exceed the recommendation they will come to grief.  Cyclists have as much right to be on the road as the rest of us but by and large it is cyclists inconsiderate use of the road that pisses other users off more than any other type of road user.

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## hilz77

> Good on ya hilz.  Truckies drive slower because the law says they have to (90 KPH limit).  Those speed signs you see on knarley corners are also for truckies (and not private motor cars) because if truckies exceed the recommendation they will come to grief.  Cyclists have as much right to be on the road as the rest of us but by and large it is cyclists inconsiderate use of the road that pisses other users off more than any other type of road user.


I do concur however that this has gotten massively off topic haha

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## Rushy

> I do concur however that this has gotten massively off topic haha


Hell newbie, that is the shit we do on this forum.

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## 223nut

Lost person to cyclists to truck road taxes... Not sure how to follow that logic lol

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## kotuku

are jacks crowd the same mob that regard it as their right to terrorise the walking populace of CHCH by tearing down FOOTPATHS,no need for helmets bro.all this after god knows how much ratepayer monies were wasted on cycle lanes in fact overall id say cyclists in this countrey get a bloody sight better deal than your average motorist.
my advice -you wanna tootle along on your latest fancy MTB or tour defrance replica -its your right ,but be bloody aware your profile is small compared to other road users so make yaself visible and ride defensively.used to be the same on motorbikes for me -i rode dressed up& 'lit up like a dildo in a convent -at least cars&truckies could see me ,as i was told on more than one occasion. incidentally saw a wanna be tourde france peleton hurtle past two young lassies ridng horses on a country road verge the other day.pity if on e of those horse had spooked no attempt to slow down-too busy yahooing ???????

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## kotuku

back to original thread .
I read somewhere that DOC  had in fact instructed these two that the route was closed and they were not to attempt it .
seems they ignored that instruction 
.if so ,well sorry ,but youre the bloody author of your own misfortune ,.the matter is further complicated by her claims both are experienced mountaineers
'-HMMMM-other experienced mountaineers/trampers i know all say they wouldnt hesitate to follow DOCs instructions. 
mother nature is a cruel bitch to the foolhardy

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## GravelBen

> back to original thread .
> I read somewhere that DOC  had in fact instructed these two that the route was closed and they were not to attempt it .
> seems they ignored that instruction 
> .if so ,well sorry ,but youre the bloody author of your own misfortune ,.the matter is further complicated by her claims both are experienced mountaineers
> '-HMMMM-other experienced mountaineers/trampers i know all say they wouldnt hesitate to follow DOCs instructions. 
> mother nature is a cruel bitch to the foolhardy


I hadn't read anywhere that they were experienced mountaineers, where was that from?

To be honest most DOC office/visitor centre staff don't have a clue about anything that isn't in a pamphlet and I (along with many other experienced trampers/mountaineers) ignore them quite often, much better to check weather & avalanche forecasts etc and make your own decision. I've been through plenty of DOC tracks that were 'closed' by someone sitting in an office when there was no issue at all on the ground, and I've turned back due to obvious avalanche hazard when they hadn't mentioned it.

If you can get information from a ranger who actually frequents the area you're planning to go then its useful - otherwise you often may as well save some time and ask the bloke at the local petrol station.

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## Jack_

> are jacks crowd the same mob that regard it as their right to terrorise the walking populace of CHCH by tearing down FOOTPATHS


Nope, super dangerous.




> my advice -you wanna tootle along on your latest fancy MTB or tour defrance replica -its your right ,but be bloody aware your profile is small compared to other road users so make yaself visible and ride defensively


Yeah, a lot of it is that drivers only look where cars are. So if you ride where a car is you're more likely to be seen, despite the small profile.

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## timattalon

I ride a bike, mostly as a commuter. I wear Hi Vis and not lycra and there are some situations where cyclists have to ride wide for safety. I use the cycle lanes and let cars past as I would rather them in front of me. Yes there are a few dicks on bikes that can be proper cnuts as there are drivers that are the same cnuts that run red lights, dont give way and hit stationary objects that clearly did not jump out in front of them. Same as there are some knuckle headed posters on here that simply dont know how to drive. 

Bear in mind those that say "cyclists dont own the road", every cyclist I know owns a car, I own three and a motorbike as well. I pay my fair share, or more if you consider I can only use one at a time. 

Cycling can be practical, as I save gas money, get some exercise, and save on parking at work. Just think next time you pass a cyclist in town that if they were in the car instead of the bike, they would get to "your" car park spot before you will.....

I live 6km from work and it takes me the same amount of time to get there in the car as it does the bike. 

Finally, a message for those who dont like slowing down a bit, the speed limit is just that, a limit. The rules are you can drive at speeds up to that limit ONLY if it is safe to do so. It does not mean that it is safe to do so because it is signposted 100. 

If you get angry at Cyclists, old people, trucks, delays, roadworks when driving, or anything else, then you should probably think about why you get angry while driving. Driving angry can be as dangerous as driving drunk. It affects your judgement and your reactions, it clouds you mind.   Calm down, you will live longer....

Drive safely, everyone deserves to get home safe and unharmed.

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## timattalon

> The only good cyclist, is a flat one!


I've heard that comment before but it was "the only good motorcyclist is a flat one", and "Organ donor on wheels" was another. Hardly original and not really any truth to it at all. I ride both as well as a 4wd and a sports car.

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## Steve123

> Finally, a message for those who dont like slowing down a bit, the speed limit is just that, a limit. The rules are you can drive at speeds up to that limit ONLY if it is safe to do so. It does not mean that it is safe to do so because it is signposted 100. 
> 
> .


I hope your not one of those " drive at 80 on the open road people"
Cyclists I have time for roadhogs have a special hell

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## timattalon

> I hope your not one of those " drive at 80 on the open road people"
> Cyclists I have time for roadhogs have a special hell


Most of the time I sit as close to 100 as I can without getting a ticket. But if anyone catches up on me I will let them by regardless of what speed they are doing as soon as I can, even if it means I pull over and stop. If other people want to go fast then that does not bother me and I do not want them behind me. One of my vehicles struggles to sit at anything faster than 100 and I do not want to hold others up. (my other two struggle to stay below 100 which is a whole other challenge...)

Finally, I am happy travelling at whatever speed the vehicle in front of me is travelling (usually) and if someone wants to pass, then I will let they by me so they can try. In fact on the motorbike, I am happy following trucks even though they are slow as the occasional idiot racing through the hills and crossing the centre line can deal with his crash bars rather than me anytime.....its saved my ass more than once. I just make sure I sit far enough back that I dont piss off the trucky. 

I was taught a philosophy around riding motorbikes that I use on all vehicles. Ride as though everyone is out to kill you because a few of them are and you dont know which ones.

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## rupert

+1 timattalon: very astute comments.

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## gadgetman

> Most of the time I sit as close to 100 as I can without getting a ticket. But if anyone catches up on me I will let them by regardless of what speed they are doing as soon as I can, even if it means I pull over and stop. If other people want to go fast then that does not bother me and I do not want them behind me. One of my vehicles struggles to sit at anything faster than 100 and I do not want to hold others up. (my other two struggle to stay below 100 which is a whole other challenge...)
> 
> Finally, I am happy travelling at whatever speed the vehicle in front of me is travelling (usually) and if someone wants to pass, then I will let they by me so they can try. In fact on the motorbike, I am happy following trucks even though they are slow as the occasional idiot racing through the hills and crossing the centre line can deal with his crash bars rather than me anytime.....its saved my ass more than once. I just make sure I sit far enough back that I dont piss off the trucky. 
> 
> I was taught a philosophy around riding motorbikes that I use on all vehicles. Ride as though everyone is out to kill you because a few of them are and you dont know which ones.


That is exactly how I drive too.

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## Dead is better

The inherent blind spots inside cars are what cause drivers not to see bikers and cyclists. I've nearly hit riders in my car and I am also a biker (so I am on the lookout).

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## timattalon

> The inherent blind spots inside cars are what cause drivers not to see bikers and cyclists. I've nearly hit riders in my car and I am also a biker (so I am on the lookout).


Yes. I agree there are blind spots and all drivers should be aware of where these are. As a cylist I also know where those spots are and I stay out of them so the driver can see me. On the motorbike I do the same.  I would also point out that some dont bother to look regardless and will never see me (or you) anyway. The proof of this is cars getting "hit" by trains. Trains are huge. They have bright lights at the front, they dont travel horrendusly fast and they are located on tracks. If car drivers cannot see a train coming, what chance to any of us have (Car drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists and pedestrians all included). If they dont look, they wont see.....

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