# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Boycott 'The Petone Gunshop"...

## grunzter

Read this guys hypocritical dribble in the submission to the Law & Order select committee “An inquiry into issues relating to the illegal possession of firearms”…

Basically he says ALL 3-gunners, multi-gunners, service rifle shooters, in fact every shooter in New Zealand that shoots at competitions enhanced with movement, multiple targets and high rates of fire are irresponsible.
What about bunny busters, they engage in multiple moving targets, so do goat cullers...

Best thing to do is help drive this guy out of business by not supporting him as he is obviously someone we do not need.

Read his submission here:
http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en...0c4bb47077fa77

Home Gunshop

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## Kscott

Gave up reading after :



> Today’s citizens are less constrained than their parents and grandparents - whose attitudes were moulded by the disciplines of military service, war, austerity, and the traditional nuclear family.


Ahh the good old days, where we could leave the keys in the ignition when popping into the dairy for milk bottle and cigarette lollies, before heading home to give little Johnnie the back of your hand for skipping school and teach the wife a lesson for not cooking the eggs quick enough. 

Nothing like living in the past to define living the present.

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## Rushy

Thanks Gruntzer.  Just read it and my take out is that it seems rather self serving for the author.

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## grunzter

I'm sure there are worse anti gun replies than this one, but when its from a gun shop owner who is currently selling the firearms he seems to be strongly apposed to, its just hypocrisy.

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## Ryan

LoL, this guy... Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. This guy's let off both barrels. He's entitled to his opinion though, however wrongly it may be perceived.

Home Gunshop

The 1990s called. They want their website back.

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## Tahr

Boycotting the guy's business flies in the face of freedom of speech. Don't shop there if you don't want to, but encouraging others to attack his livelihood because you don't agree with him is a bridge too far for me.

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## Uplandstalker

Not a fan of this submission, but if anyone doesn't like it, submit one yourself!

We are living in a country that we are able to contribute and speak our minds on these matters(if they listen or not is another story). So unless one speaks up, within the process available to us, it may pay to just roll over and let the law makers do what they like and keep your mouth closed.

Remember, anyone can make a submission, yet so few firearm licence holders actually do, yet we all moan about when the changes don't suit.

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## MassiveAttack

Ahhh the older generation, their love of the past and their hate of changing culture.  The only proper manly shooting is paper targets at 100 yards (not meters) to sight in your deer rifle before heading into the hills carring nothing more than a 303, a swandry and a blunt butter knife.  To have fun while shooting is just wrong.

This attitude is throughout the shooting sports but seems worse in duck hunting circles:
*The gubermint is about to reintroduce lead shot because they have listened to all the evidence i.e. old blokes complaing about steel shot
*Semi autos are wounding all the ducks
*Wing spinners are talking the sport out of the sport
*EVERYTHING NEW IS BAD!

My old man came aound last week and said something about who schools were giving up on all this high tech stuff and going back to teaching the basics (which I think is chalk boards and slide rules).  What schools dad, where cos my kids schools are not giving up on the high tech stuff.  He didn't really know (which is always the way with this stuff) but he though it was some private schools in England.

My counterargument for not living in the past was that to cope with todays world you have to learn the stuff thats relevant which for us is technology.  I added in the fact that we now collect so much data that it's impossible to use the old model of scientests sitting in labs, reading books and scientific papers in order to "discover" stuff.  We have so much data being collected that the only possible way to analyse it is with software.  If we want our kids to copy in the world we need to teach them how to create and use software in my the same way your generation was taught how to use electricity and milling machines as they took over from whail oil and blacksmithing.

Of course the whole thing fell on deaf ears because he didn't want it to be true.  Change makes those who are experts in the system unsettled because they are no longer experts....

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## R93

I might have read it wrong but I didn't think it read to bad.

He promotes registration which has been proven to be a waste of time amd resourses in other countries.

It reminds me of when the E endorsement started in NZ.

People were happy to throw other gun enthusiasts under the bus to protect their own interests. It shows a lack of intelligence and selfishness.

I always thought if we gave the anti-gun people an inch they would take a mile.
I personally do not see the need for e cat rifles in any form of hunting other than from a helicopter in order to control pests or recovery ops.
But I certainly wouldn't support any policy trying to take that away from people that do hunt with an E cat firearm.
Maybe he should attend and participate in a 3 gun shoot and see how enjoyable it is. Sometimes trying something new can change an opinon. 







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## grunzter

Freedom of speech is fine, but when you actively say one thing and are doing the opposite is the thing that peeves me off...
He wants our money and business, but then calls many of us irresponsible!

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## res

Yet another reason to spend my $ elsewhere, poor service and attitude etc was already doing the job. 

He is of course entitled to his opinion, as we all are. My opinion is that he has made an arse of himself yet again


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## stug

John Howat, is/was the head of COLFO

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## res

> John Howat, is/was the head of COLFO


Was I believe 


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## Tahr

> Freedom of speech is fine, but when you actively say one thing and are doing the opposite is the thing that peeves me off...
> He wants our money and business, but then calls many of us irresponsible!


Many of us are  :Thumbsup:

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## GravelBen

Gun shop owner suggests 'solutions' which involve creating more business for gun shops and giving gun shops control over private sales... hmm.

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## hunt_fish

How does one go about making a submission? Is there a submission 101 article or advice from anyone that has done it before? Perhaps a new thread?


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## zimmer

> Not a fan of this submission, but if anyone doesn't like it, submit one yourself!
> 
> We are living in a country that we are able to contribute and speak our minds on these matters(if they listen or not is another story). So unless one speaks up, within the process available to us, it may pay to just roll over and let the law makers do what they like and keep your mouth closed.
> 
> Remember, anyone can make a submission, yet so few firearm licence holders actually do, yet we all moan about when the changes don't suit.


Yep, we all could have made submissions, but always much better to just tear apart someone elses. Like you I don't agree with what John has written. Always saw John as a straight guy, maybe age has addled his brain. Or maybe in his submission he see a lesser of potentially more evil countermeasures.
BTW: despite several reminders from shooting organisations I belong to, to get our submissions in, I forgot the deadline and missed out. So, I now join the vast ranks of gun owners who will winge like mad when the inevitable happens.

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## res

> How does one go about making a submission? Is there a submission 101 article or advice from anyone that has done it before? Perhaps a new thread?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Submissions are closed this time around unfortunately. 
Several groups are working on a how to guide for next time around, unfortunately a simple copy and paste is not suitable as would not count as separate submissions. There is a form guide on parliaments website 


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## Uplandstalker

Brought my first and second rifle from him a number of years ago. Always seemed like a stand-up guy, but I guess over time, watching the world change around you, can be difficult to deal with.

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## Tommy

Nostalgia, it's not what it used to be.

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## GravelBen

> ...unfortunately a simple copy and paste is not suitable as would not count as separate submissions.


If a copy+paste submission agrees with the bias/preference of the decision makers its allowed and counted, if it disagrees then it gives them an easy way to ignore it. Not that I'm cynical about politicians or anything...

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## res

> If a copy+paste submission agrees with the bias/preference of the decision makers its allowed and counted, if it disagrees then it gives them an easy way to ignore it. Not that I'm cynical about politicians or anything...


They don't even see it, it's all sorted(and oia'able) before it gets to them. 


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## Maca49

> Ahhh the older generation, their love of the past and their hate of changing culture.  The only proper manly shooting is paper targets at 100 yards (not meters) to sight in your deer rifle before heading into the hills carring nothing more than a 303, a swandry and a blunt butter knife.  To have fun while shooting is just wrong.
> 
> This attitude is throughout the shooting sports but seems worse in duck hunting circles:
> *The gubermint is about to reintroduce lead shot because they have listened to all the evidence i.e. old blokes complaing about steel shot
> *Semi autos are wounding all the ducks
> *Wing spinners are talking the sport out of the sport
> *EVERYTHING NEW IS BAD!
> 
> My old man came aound last week and said something about who schools were giving up on all this high tech stuff and going back to teaching the basics (which I think is chalk boards and slide rules).  What schools dad, where cos my kids schools are not giving up on the high tech stuff.  He didn't really know (which is always the way with this stuff) but he though it was some private schools in England.
> ...


Piss off! Not all oldies are like that, what you forget is with age comes a little wisdom and more common sense!!
Dont forget just because its new doesn't mean its better!! :Wtfsmilie:

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## Maca49

> Yep, we all could have made submissions, but always much better to just tear apart someone elses. Like you I don't agree with what John has written. Always saw John as a straight guy, maybe age has addled his brain. Or maybe in his submission he see a lesser of potentially more evil countermeasures.
> BTW: despite several reminders from shooting organisations I belong to, to get our submissions in, I forgot the deadline and missed out. So, I now join the vast ranks of gun owners who will winge like mad when the inevitable happens.


I agree with you Zimmer, but I dont think hes added much to help us when hes been involved in the past, remember when he held Mr Gun Citys role as the "go to" man for reporters and the like. :O O:

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## res

> with age comes a little wisdom and more common sense!!


there is probably more entrenched Old fools than there are those that have gained wisdom 



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## stretch

Free speech is great and all, but you must wear the consequences of what you say. His submission is his to make, but it has alienated much of his customer base, who are right to take their business elsewhere.

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## gonetropo

i think he just committed financial suicide, even if he loses only a 1/3 of his revenue. hard to believe he wrote this

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## steven

> I'm sure there are worse anti gun replies than this one, but when its from a gun shop owner who is currently selling the firearms he seems to be strongly apposed to, its just hypocrisy.


I used to go in there occasionally (never again) as support as I didnt want local shops to close. He doesnt sell the likes of AR15s or I have never seen any but what looks like mostly clapped out old ex-mil and cheap stuff.   I would have said his business was running down as he cant / is not competing with the online / bigger shops, so his submission reads as a whiney rant.

I have talked to him in the past and frankly I found him condescending and a bit arrogant, but well no ones perfect.

Anyway I will make it a point to go to Magnum Imports or the Alice Town shop in future.

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## res

> I used to go in there occasionally (never again) as support as I didnt want local shops to close. He doesnt sell the likes of AR15s or I have never seen any but what looks like mostly clapped out old ex-mil and cheap stuff.   I would have said his business was running down as he cant / is not competing with the online / bigger shops, so his submission reads as a whiney rant.
> 
> Anyway I will make it a point to go to Magnum Imports or the Alice Town shop in future.


He lists ar15's etc on his archaic website

And used to sell norinco ak's buy the truck load.  Such a hypocrite. I supported colfo even when he was involved but I'm glad he has moved on-it's seems to have rejuvenated colfo 


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## Maca49

> there is probably more entrenched Old fools than there are those that have gained wisdom 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I deal with young dickheads who don't know shit from clay everyday! Always refreshing when someone with knowledge and a bit of age serves you in a trade business! Especially firearms :Grin:

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## Happy

Fucktard.................. EOS

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## steven

> He lists ar15's etc on his archaic website
> 
> And used to sell norinco ak's buy the truck load.  Such a hypocrite. I supported colfo even when he was involved but I'm glad he has moved on-it's seems to have rejuvenated colfo 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



His website is a bit strange, when I asked him he said he couldnt get any due to "restrictions" bought my stag on line no issues.

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## marky123

After visiting his shop I think the 1970s was the last time he sold anything out of it anyway

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## Husky1600

When the shit starts to hit the fan, and its hitting now, we all need to stick together regardless of our preferences. Those of us with current Firearms Licenses are supposedly responsible firearms users and we will all be affected if there are changes. John Howat has done us no good at all, and if I was in the Wellington region i wouldnt be spending my money there - just as I dont spend money at H&F. That is my choice, just as it was his choice to put in that submission. As for that Greg OConnor fella - he needs to pull his head out of his fundamental orifice and take a reality pill!

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## grunzter

Ok, to add fuel to the fire, roll your eyes when you read Greg O'conners submission... police association president
http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en...8d29e62416356b

But there are also a few good submissions as well...

...It seems a lot easier to put a submission in now after its closed, than when it was open???

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## 300CALMAN

Reminds me of the idiot who worked for the Gun Shed, made the same sort of comments to the Press. Never went back after that. He works for H&F now I believe...

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## Tommy

Daniel Defense Terminates Agreement With Academy - TFB

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## Ryan

From his submission it appears there's a lot wrong with NZP's reporting. Perhaps they might want to look at that first _before_ they start looking for more stuff to report on. Seeing the words "Australia", "UK" and "...impose, at least, these same restrictions" brings me out in a rash.

Also note the repeated mention of the *pistol-gripped* shotgun. Several of the examples he's listed in Appendix 1 didn't actually involve any firearms? There's a huge difference between "believed to be in possession of a firearm" and _actually_ being in possession of a firearm. You know, the old "possession being 9/10ths..." adage. Can't really be a firearm incident without a firearm, can it?

That, combined with several instances of airguns being found suggests to me that he's drawing a long bow on this "problem". No idea what a "magazine clip" is.

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## stretch

> No idea what a "magazine clip" is.


It's like a Clipazine, but scarier.

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## chalkeye

> He lists ar15's etc on his archaic website


If we judged all of NZ's firearms retailers by their websites, we'd be in a dark, dark place.

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## res

> If we judged all of NZ's firearms retailers by their websites, we'd be in a dark, dark place.


That is very true, I have arms dealer friends and I don't think much of there websites either. 


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## Maca49

It was a great gun shop in the late 80s, bought a Winchester 44/40 off him and carried it into the Burma Lodge, near Tawa without anyone panicking or calling the cops, them were the days when we trusted all and could make a quick decision on mass murderers. His shop had a great range of pistols and BP rifles and gear, much like the range Neil Hayes carries. Always called in after Managers meeting at Placemaker Kaiwhawara and on my way back to Masterton. I still have a copy of his catalogue from those days! :Cool:

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## mickey

Quite sad, seems like Johns turned into a grumpy old man & is trying to drum up more business by curtailing private sales of fire arms.

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## Maca49

> Quite sad, seems like Johns turned into a grumpy old man & is trying to drum up more business by curtailing private sales of fire arms.


Problem with getting old, one to many of those lovely arsehole customers :Have A Nice Day:

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## ANTMAN

Looking on the web site to find the very firearms the submission was against...  :Thumbsup:

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## kotuku

dont forget massive when you crow about todays technology and you beloved data your old man didnt need all this shit to sire you and your siblings ,and frankly if it werent for old values and commonsense you wouldnt be where you are today.
Me Im one of those oldies and fucking proud of it.computers are like bossess politicians &civilservants to me -ya got punch a lotta shit in to get just as much (often)garbled shit out.as for todays kids -modern education is piss poor fullstop-NCEA is a bloody crock legacy of the lawyer of mangeres inept socialist engineering -much admired and continued by herr Cluck Whose dental work in a mate of mines words "looks like a test keyboard at the steinway factory

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## res

> dont forget massive when you crow about todays technology and you beloved data your old man didnt need all this shit to sire you and your siblings ,and frankly if it werent for old values and commonsense you wouldnt be where you are today.
> Me Im one of those oldies and fucking proud of it.computers are like bossess politicians &civilservants to me -ya got punch a lotta shit in to get just as much (often)garbled shit out.as for todays kids -modern education is piss poor fullstop-NCEA is a bloody crock legacy of the lawyer of mangeres inept socialist engineering -much admired and continued by herr Cluck Whose dental work in a mate of mines words "looks like a test keyboard at the steinway factory


Where did this rant come from? Did someone delete a post that your replying to?  


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## Sylvester

I wonder what sort of fee he'd be charging for all of the extra work he would have to do as a licenced firearms dealer.

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## res

> I wonder what sort of fee he'd be charging for all of the extra work he would have to do as a licenced firearms dealer.


I'm sure he would make it worth his while


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## stretch

> dont forget massive when you crow about todays technology and you beloved data your old man didnt need all this shit to sire you and your siblings ,and frankly if it werent for old values and commonsense you wouldnt be where you are today.
> Me Im one of those oldies and fucking proud of it.computers are like bossess politicians &civilservants to me -ya got punch a lotta shit in to get just as much (often)garbled shit out.as for todays kids -modern education is piss poor fullstop-NCEA is a bloody crock legacy of the lawyer of mangeres inept socialist engineering -much admired and continued by herr Cluck Whose dental work in a mate of mines words "looks like a test keyboard at the steinway factory


https://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0

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## Maca49

Wellington Sporting Arms 285 Jackson Street Petone

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## ebf

Jeez Gruntzer - calling for someone's business to be destroyed simply because you don't like their ideas.... Class act :-(

How about any of the following alternatives :

Take the time to write your own submission...
Engage in a constructive debate...
Write an email to the guy or phone him and have an actual conversation...

I'm kinda surprised you have not called for a public lynching of O'Connor 

Need to take a couple of deep breaths mate... Not a good look for someone who is supposed to be"fit and proper"

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## mikee

Um.......................... submissioned have closed. Not many people bothered

and we should not be surprised at the submissions. NZ firearms users have a long history of not being able to get their shit together with a single voice but instead spend that time feeding each other to the wolves.




THESE are the GOOD OLD DAYS so make the most of them

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## Maca49

> Jeez Gruntzer - calling for someone's business to be destroyed simply because you don't like their ideas.... Class act :-(
> 
> How about any of the following alternatives :
> 
> Take the time to write your own submission...
> Engage in a constructive debate...
> Write an email to the guy or phone him and have an actual conversation...
> 
> I'm kinda surprised you have not called for a public lynching of O'Connor 
> ...


Hahaha ebf you could run with Donald!!

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## ebf

Yeah but @mikee expecting all NZ firearms users to read from the same hymn book is not exactly reasonable...

Gun shop owners run businesses and are looking out for their lively hood.
Some of us are recreational or sport users
Others feel more strongly about gun rights 

Half the shit that gets posted here in the name of gun owners quite frankly makes me feel extremely uncomfortable :-)

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## kotuku

go back and read massives last post OK.
Anyhow who died and made you god for that matter.
FYI-Ive never had a post deleted here ,thats what i find refreshing.,unlike mr a hammonds website,which if youre of a more delicate nature you may prefer. they also love censorship and toadying over there.
finally ive known and shot with massive over a few years now ,so the big fella can handle it!
 i sincerely hope this puts yours and any others anxieties to rest. goodday to you all.

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## stumpy

I used to like going into frontier gunshop in the late 80s , when I owned an slr ... whole heap of ex mil 7.62 to be had for bugger all .... and I don't remember john being so grumpy , fast forward to this and last year , when I went in there , he was always surely and annoyed , the other guy that works there is a gem and really helpful , ... its not a bad shop , but john can be his own worst enemy . he used to have a lot of lee stuff and I use lee exclusively .. some of his submission is ok and some seems a little off the wall ... hi son is of similer ilk , not a bad guy some days , but other days ........ we all cant be as perfect as me I know  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Tahr

> Fucktard.................. EOS


FAPP?

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## grunzter

..this thread created some lively debate  :Psmiley: 
 @ebf its not his ideas that I am attacking, its the fact he sells guns which are used for a practice he obviously thinks is irresponsible... if he only sells bolt action firearms on his web site, then my comments are a bit over the top. 
Besides that comment, his submission was relatively middle road.

And yes, I should have put in a submission, as it is easy to pick holes in others input now that it is published.
If there is a second round of submissions from the outcome of the first I definitely will be doing just that...

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## Beavis

> Jeez Gruntzer - calling for someone's business to be destroyed simply because you don't like their ideas.... Class act :-(
> 
> How about any of the following alternatives :
> 
> Take the time to write your own submission...
> Engage in a constructive debate...
> Write an email to the guy or phone him and have an actual conversation...
> 
> I'm kinda surprised you have not called for a public lynching of O'Connor 
> ...


Oh I've tried to contact them, to spend money even, no reply. He's doing a good enough job destroying his business himself.

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## grunzter

I copied this from a facebook post (without permission)  :Have A Nice Day: 
But sums up Greg O'conners submission very well.

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## MassiveAttack

> Piss off! Not all oldies are like that, what you forget is with age comes a little wisdom and more common sense!!
> Dont forget just because its new doesn't mean its better!!


Of course the new way is better or we wouldn't have replaced the old ways with the new ways!

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## MassiveAttack

> go back and read massives last post OK.
> Anyhow who died and made you god for that matter.
> FYI-Ive never had a post deleted here ,thats what i find refreshing.,unlike mr a hammonds website,which if youre of a more delicate nature you may prefer. they also love censorship and toadying over there.
> finally ive known and shot with massive over a few years now ,so the big fella can handle it!
>  i sincerely hope this puts yours and any others anxieties to rest. goodday to you all.


Sorry tube but you need better data from the Great Google.  My A Hammond makes the good (but not brightly colored) duck and goose calls.  Mr Alan *Simmons* runs the hunt n fish forum with the much used delete button.

The more evolved humans have given up trying to remember stuff like this and just offload the info to the Great Google up in the intercloud so we can retrieve it when necessary.  I am not joking, to confirm I had Alan's last name right I googled for it.

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## MassiveAttack

My final comment on all this is how can a bloke who has built a business out of selling ex military service rifles (the technical term is Main Battle Rifle but I like to call them Baby Killers cos it's more emotional) have an opinion on how nobody should be allowed to buy commercial copies of the current military service rifle?  A 303 may seem safe and cuddly cos grandad had one but it's a high powered baby killer with a high capacity magazine (10 shot) that can kill multiple babies at 1000m even if they are hiding behind a tree.  The sooner the baby killer rifles are confiscated and replaced with harmless small caliber modern sporting rifles using restricted capacity magazines the better.

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## Maca49

> Of course the new way is better or we wouldn't have replaced the old ways with the new ways!


Time for a TUI! Yeah Right!! :Grin:

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## Rushy

> Ok, to add fuel to the fire, roll your eyes when you read Greg O'conners submission... police association president
> http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en...8d29e62416356b
> 
> But there are also a few good submissions as well...
> 
> ...It seems a lot easier to put a submission in now after its closed, than when it was open???


Well reading that lot of drivel from Greg was not in the least bit informative.

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## timattalon

I read the submission he made several times and cannot see what the fuss is about. sure he wrote

_ "Membership of clubs and associations that promoted ‘traditional’ deliberate target shooting has been replaced by growth in organisations that promote competitions in which precision shooting is enhanced with movement, engaging multiple targets, and employing high rates of fire. This is not a reflection on committed and responsible users."_

Which seems to be the target of a lot of the comments. But please read it carefully. All it states is that the nature of target shooting has changed from the "traditional" (lie down and poke a hole in a target) to the "precision shooting is enhanced with movement, engaging multiple targets, and employing high rates of fire"." which does describe the evolution of target shooting as it has moved into things like three gun etc. So no deception or misinformation there. Pretty simple statement of the situation. 

The whole issue seems to be around the "This is not a reflection on committed and responsible users" comment. This, unfortunately can be taken two ways. The way everyone here seems to be reacting to is that this rapid fire dynamic movement is not a reflection of responsible users but the way I read it, and which I suspect it was supposed to be read is that the dynamic sea change in the activities is not a negative reflection on users but a natural progression that responsible users take. Thus the change itself is not a reflection on committed and responsible users.

I think that at the end of the day he has put his submission forwards and made his opinion known. If you disagree with his opinion then the place to do that would have been by making your own submission. If you did not bother then that s like complaining about the political party in power when you didn't bother to vote. If you don't say something when you have the chance, dont expect to be listened to afterwards......

I do not agree with a lot of his submission, but find it ironic that people are so upset when they did not bother to make a submission themselves.....

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## GravelBen

> Well reading that lot of drivel from Greg was not in the least bit informative.


I read Joe Green's submission instead, much more sensible and worthwhile.

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## gadgetman

> Well reading that lot of drivel from Greg was not in the least bit informative.


I got plenty out of that Rushy. Basically he said his lads were too busy writing death reports at the bottom of the cliff. As a result of this he would like to remove everyone's legs to stop anyone getting to the top of the cliff. Unfortunately he completely missed the opportunity to just send a couple of his lads up the hill to turn the few walking to the cliff away.

Basically his lads need to get back to basic policing and stop the rot at a much earlier stage. This needs the backing of the Police hierarchy, courts, parliament and the rest of the good people of this country.

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## jakesae101

> Need to be careful making allegations like this. The inference is that he has held or kept people's deposits unlawfully. If that is not what you meant you should say so. If it is what you meant you need to be prepared to stump up with the evidence if he sues you for defamation. No one is anonymous.


he has given deposits back as far as I know , people have waited several years for gear that other importers seem to not have trouble bringing in before pulling the pin and going somewhere else.

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## Kscott

> I copied this from a facebook post (without permission) 
> But sums up Greg O'conners submission very well.
> 
> Attachment 50894


A bit mischievous, the word used is offender.

We're becoming as bad as the Yanks, misquoting to bolster an argument.

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## stug

The Rural Women in NZ is asupportive submission http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en...0df0bb3caa6a4a

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## Ryan

> The Rural Women in NZ is asupportive submission http://www.parliament.nz/resource/en...0df0bb3caa6a4a


Concise and logical submission. Expand the NZP budget and enforce the existing laws. Need to work on their editing though, lol - "4000 firearms ceased by Customs".

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## R93

> I read the submission he made several times and cannot see what the fuss is about. sure he wrote
> 
> _ "Membership of clubs and associations that promoted traditional deliberate target shooting has been replaced by growth in organisations that promote competitions in which precision shooting is enhanced with movement, engaging multiple targets, and employing high rates of fire. This is not a reflection on committed and responsible users."_
> 
> Which seems to be the target of a lot of the comments. But please read it carefully. All it states is that the nature of target shooting has changed from the "traditional" (lie down and poke a hole in a target) to the "precision shooting is enhanced with movement, engaging multiple targets, and employing high rates of fire"." which does describe the evolution of target shooting as it has moved into things like three gun etc. So no deception or misinformation there. Pretty simple statement of the situation. 
> 
> The whole issue seems to be around the "This is not a reflection on committed and responsible users" comment. This, unfortunately can be taken two ways. The way everyone here seems to be reacting to is that this rapid fire dynamic movement is not a reflection of responsible users but the way I read it, and which I suspect it was supposed to be read is that the dynamic sea change in the activities is not a negative reflection on users but a natural progression that responsible users take. Thus the change itself is not a reflection on committed and responsible users.
> 
> I think that at the end of the day he has put his submission forwards and made his opinion known. If you disagree with his opinion then the place to do that would have been by making your own submission. If you did not bother then that s like complaining about the political party in power when you didn't bother to vote. If you don't say something when you have the chance, dont expect to be listened to afterwards......
> ...


I read it the same as you mate. 
Only thing I found annoying about the submission was registration of all firearms. Pointless imo.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## gadgetman

> Concise and logical submission. Expand the NZP budget and enforce the existing laws. Need to work on their editing though, lol - "4000 firearms ceased by Customs".


If they ended up being destroyed it wouldn't be completely wrong.

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## Marty Henry

Just read three mentioned above. All well thought out and articulate. To me the common thread is police are under resourced to handle this even now. 
Like the submissions or not it was their right to make them. They got off their arses and did something.
You have to engage in a process like this imo to have the right to comment on the actions of someone who does.
"All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing" 
I made a submission probably not as articulate as these, but I suspect far too many "good men " did not.

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## systolic

> I copied this from a facebook post (without permission) 
> But sums up Greg O'conners submission very well.
> 
> Attachment 50894


How about in paragraph 10?

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## systolic

> I got plenty out of that Rushy. Basically he said his lads were too busy writing death reports at the bottom of the cliff. As a result of this he would like to remove everyone's legs to stop anyone getting to the top of the cliff. Unfortunately he completely missed the opportunity to just send a couple of his lads up the hill to turn the few walking to the cliff away.
> 
> Basically his lads need to get back to basic policing and stop the rot at a much earlier stage. This needs the backing of the Police hierarchy, courts, parliament and the rest of the good people of this country.


O'Conner is a *union* official. He has no more say over police operations than the Maritime Union do over the bosses at Ports of Auckland or Tauranga.

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## mikee

from stuff

the-gun-problem-too-many-of-the-wrong-type-in-the-wrong-hands-police-union-says

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## stretch

> from stuff
> 
> the-gun-problem-too-many-of-the-wrong-type-in-the-wrong-hands-police-union-says


I've made some comments on that article, awaiting moderation (censorship to match the desired narrative?).

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## Ryan

_"Association president Greg O'Connor​ said no-one knew how many weapons were in the hands of criminals."_

_"Too many guns of the wrong type are in the wrong hands, the Police Association says."_


Mmm, kay. So they don't know how many illegal firearms are out there but there are too many of the "wrong type"? I'd have thought any illegal firearm would be the wrong type.

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## gadgetman

> O'Conner is a *union* official. He has no more say over police operations than the Maritime Union do over the bosses at Ports of Auckland or Tauranga.


Yes, and the inference is that they are members of the Police force rather than a knitting circle.

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## systolic

> Yes, and the inference is that they are members of the Police force rather than a knitting circle.


Surely they would Mike Bush's lads then?

Most union presidents or representatives I've dealt with over the years want their members to do less work, not more.

Why would the police officer's union be any different?

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## gadgetman

> Surely they would Mike Bush's lads then?
> 
> Most union presidents or representatives I've dealt with over the years want their members to do less work, not more.
> 
> Why would the police officer's union be any different?


Quite right there too. But I think the guts of the submission is to improve his members safety which is fair enough.

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## gimp

> dont forget massive when you crow about todays technology and you beloved data your old man didnt need all this shit to sire you and your siblings ,and frankly if it werent for old values and commonsense you wouldnt be where you are today.
> Me Im one of those oldies and fucking proud of it.computers are like bossess politicians &civilservants to me -ya got punch a lotta shit in to get just as much (often)garbled shit out.as for todays kids -modern education is piss poor fullstop-NCEA is a bloody crock legacy of the lawyer of mangeres inept socialist engineering -much admired and continued by herr Cluck Whose dental work in a mate of mines words "looks like a test keyboard at the steinway factory


I agree, *you* do punch in a lot of shit and get a lot of garbled shit out.

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## Reindeer

The below is taken from Petone Gun Shop site under the sale Banner of a Saiga "A" Cat semi Auto Sporting Rifle
What I am stuck with is
Is the below some sort of disclaimer?
Public Service Announcement?
In complete contrast to his submission.

_SAIGA sporting firearms are manufactured in Russia by the firm 'KALASHNIKOV CONCERN' - a merger between Izhmash and Izhmekh. The company also builds Kalashnikov rifles for the Russian military and export. Many years ago Mikhail Kalashnikov worked at the factory and SAIGA rifles retain a number of the rugged features of the original  AK-47 assault rifle.  

A word concerning the possible future of 'A' cat semi-automatic rifles. 
*  The original intent of the 1992 Arms Amendment Bill was to severely restrict possession of semi-   automatic rifles that had a high rate of fire and were attractive to particular people.  Similar laws were enacted in a number of countries at around the same time.
*   Arms laws are generally 'toughened up' as a result of either (a) - a number of illegal shooting incidents, or (b) - a Politician or high ranking Police Officer believing certain firearms 'should not be available to the public' Such situations could occur anywhere in the world - but still effect our laws. 
*   The current international situation is now focusing world attention on the availability of firearms patterned after military weapons and/or other firearms capable of a high rate of fire. 
*   It follows that there could be changes to our laws and possession of firearms such as the SAIGA could be further restricted. 
*   For many years the possession of particular firearms by New Zealand's Responsible Firearms Community has depended on the actions of others, and right now the possession of semi-automatic rifles such as these 'A Cat Semi-auto Sporting Rifles' is in the hands of various international terrorist groups.  
*   The Responsible NZ Firearms Community should consider how to deal with this situation BEFORE an incident triggers law changes._

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## Friwi

And he is the one contributing to the change of that law, and still making money out of it, the bastard!

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## Stoog1974

Hi all i have just moved to auckland from perth wa,  our gun laws are crap i have 6 rifles and had to apply for each of them, be carefull of the gun shops selling the second hand rifles as once it happens they offer you nothing  as they would rather sell a new set up and the price of the second hand one they do sell is marked up just below the new rifles on the shelf . Will kill the second hand market.

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## jackson21

Well worth a read of Greg O'Connors submission/novel....sounds like he wants to set up a taskforce of Police to "catch out" firearms owners flouting their firearms security requirements.
I guess we are much easier bad guys to catch!
Banning 50 cal, I guess the few that could afford to run these can upgrade to a 20mm then?

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## 308

> Hi all i have just moved to auckland from perth wa,  our gun laws are crap i have 6 rifles and had to apply for each of them, be carefull of the gun shops selling the second hand rifles as once it happens they offer you nothing  as they would rather sell a new set up and the price of the second hand one they do sell is marked up just below the new rifles on the shelf . Will kill the second hand market.


Hi welcome to the forum

Could you explain that a bit more please? - I don't understand your drift

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## kotuku

obviously youre not known as gimp for nothing then !

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## gadgetman

> Hi welcome to the forum
> 
> Could you explain that a bit more please? - I don't understand your drift


What will happen if all firearms sales are required to go through a dealer.

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## grunzter

...New Zealand Police will suddenly need to issue 250,000 dealers licenses....  :Psmiley:

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## Rock river arms hunter

This was also the same man in question who threw all ECATs under the bus in 09 as COLFO president.... Explains a lot really.

Luckily P Clarke is a wise man indeed! 

Get in touch with the National shooters association today- we'd love to hear from ya. Find us on our Facebook page.

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## res

> Get in touch with the National shooters association today- we'd love to hear from ya. Find us on our Facebook page.


When asking people to find a group your more likely to have them find it if you provide a link, I find people are disturbingly lazy no mater how worthy the cause. 

Click the link and hit like folks  

https://www.facebook.com/National-Sh...3936793326413/

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## 308

> What will happen if all firearms sales are required to go through a dealer.


Got it

Fuck that - NZ ers are too tight to allow that to happen

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## Rock river arms hunter

> When asking people to find a group your more likely to have them find it if you provide a link, I find people are disturbingly lazy no mater how worthy the cause. 
> 
> Click the link and hit like folks  
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/National-Sh...3936793326413/


I probably should've included that. Cheers mate!

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## Jexla

Be sure to like FOUNZ on facebook too!

https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz

Very interesting thread here, you got burned @gimp  :On Fire:   :ORLY:

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## gimp

> Very interesting thread here, you got burned @gimp


ouch.

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## Rushy

> When asking people to find a group your more likely to have them find it if you provide a link, I find people are disturbingly lazy no mater how worthy the cause. 
> 
> Click the link and hit like folks  
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/National-Sh...3936793326413/


Res Facebook is like smallpox, the Black Plague, Malaria, and Typhoid all rolled in to one for me.  In other words something I never want in my life.

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## res

> Res Facebook is like smallpox, the Black Plague, Malaria, and Typhoid all rolled in to one for me.  In other words something I never want in my life.


It has its uses, it's not all cat pictures and people bitching or bragging about there lives(and you can use it in ways that cut that shit out-been teaching my dad how to do that) and I find it hilarious that a forum user bags Facebook since it's a whole lot harder to fly under the radar on a forum than on farcebook. 

The nsa website seems to be down-probably because they find Facebook more cost effective. 

But you can still find there contact details on this link  https://www.parliament.nz/resource/0000163901

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## Rushy

> I find it hilarious that a forum user bags Facebook since it's a whole lot harder to fly under the radar on a forum than on farcebook.


Not bagging it. Just have no intention to ever use it.  This forum is all the social media I need.

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## res

I hardly use the social media side of it, it's for making calls and running companies and interest groups to me

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## Jexla

https://www.facebook.com/colfonz/posts/1867385273493251

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## 6.5mm-mag

Another numb nut wanker banging on about gun registration. Obviously he has had his head up his own arsehole and totally oblivious to the fact that no  criminal will register a single firearm they have in their possession - or the proven fact that gun registration costs milliondsof dollars of tax payers money. Our learned friend should do some research into the failed Canadian gun registry.

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## Backcut

He calls for attacks on ALL of us. Why should shooters not be made aware of this judas?

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## Backcut

No, he really isnt. Shooters are in lock step behind fact backed policy. His ignorance will be seized on by the antis to derail the conversation that we need to be having.

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## Rushy

You do realise that the previous post was eighteen months ago don't you?

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## jim160

> You do realise that the previous post was eighteen months ago don't you?


And that the shop has been closed for ages as well.

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## 40mm

news to me, sounds like a damn fool. hope he regrets what he said.

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