# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Gun shot fired in Gun City Car park

## faregame

WTF moment

Bullet holes have been found in a car after "an accidental discharge" near Gun City in Christchurch.
Car shot in &#39;accidental discharge&#39; near Gun City in Christchurch | Stuff.co.nz

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## Tommy

Oh ffs

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## planenutz

FFS.

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## kokako

FFS, I bet they also had an "accidental discharge" in their jocks too.

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## SlowElliot

Oh man, not good.
How the hell can a muppet like that get a FAL.

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## Rushy

To have an accidental discharge a firearm needs to be loaded.  Remind me again what rule number three is.

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## bigbear

I'd say lucky it went of in the car park rather then in side the shop :Wtfsmilie:

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## kotuku

David Tipple -"he made a litany of errors""he made a few mistakes"-really Dave ,c,mon ya pullin ma left testicle old chap.
As though GC dont get enough adverse publicity ,then this sort of shit happens right outside their front door???whoa is this the royal icing on the wedding cake of adversity or what???.
DT speaks to a guy nearby -he was unfazed-probably bloody mortified would be closer to reality.
I suspect we gents are about to see another fairly vociferous round in the Police vs mr tipple and family prolonged punchup.
 As for comments re the car -FFs what are the bloody insurance companies  gonna think-theyre cranky pricks already re anything untoward in christchurch.
Sorry dave but this time mate you get nong of the week for comments and given fairfax media leftist antigun tendencies,it makes it allthe more ironic that he even gives them the time of day.day
 whats with the photo-are we to take it from this it was a shotty,and this was a case of attempted rust removal by DIYshotblasting-
just askin.

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## Sylvester

Who on earth would think that loading a firearm, in a carpark, in the middle of a city is a good idea.

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## systolic

Not the first time shots have been fired in a gun city car park.

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## longrange308

Could have happened outside any gun shop, lots of muppets out there

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## kotuku

> Not the first time shots have been fired in a gun city car park.


 kindly elaborate.

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## Clint Ruin

> Could have happened outside any gun shop, lots of muppets out there


This !

Been in the firearms trade for a fairly long time . All three shops I have worked at have had people walk in with loaded guns / loaded mags (some in the gun some not) / live round stuck in the chamber etc etc .

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## Krameranzac

Incompetence.

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## systolic

> Could have happened outside any gun shop, lots of muppets out there


David Tipple fired shots into the air after he had an argument with someone he thought had damaged his car.

This was a seperate time to when he shot at thieves at his house.

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## kotuku

> Could have happened outside any gun shop, lots of muppets out there


 granted that may well be ,but the fact remains that unfortunately guncity and the tipple family have a somewhat chequered history with the sorts of incidents as Im sure you are aware.
 if mr systolic is alluding to the incident i think he is -it did not happen in a carpark it happened on Barbadoes St IIRC   very soon after the original guncity shop opened-and the police went at DT no holds barred,but DT somehow escaped their clutches.Avery reliable former constable friend of mine spoke of some senior CHCH police having a dislike verging on hatred of DT and would have given an eyetooth to stop him in his tracks.alas that was not to be.
personally ive done quite a lot of business at guncity -having developed an approach to do so and it has worked .dont get me started on H&F and a certain infamous staff member whom i correctely thought (and later validated)thought himself goods gift to wildfowling and an emminent author on the same.oh shit when the dark side finally emerged it was viya condios double quick.

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## kotuku

> David Tipple fired shots into the air after he had an argument with someone he thought had damaged his car.
> 
> This was a seperate time to when he shot at thieves at his house.


Tipple in fact was bailed up by a mob of early boyracers,who also had a beef with his sons.after threats of GBHto his person he produced a P/A12g and fired 1/2shots over their heads .they shat themselves and pissed off sharpish.
  IIRC whilst he was a guest of the US justice system his two sons who were managing the empire in Dads absence got in the shit when their so called safe rifle range on the family hacienda proved not so . .223 rounds screamed across roads and neighbouring properties.apparently they were entertaining aussie guests and trying out some of the latest shop goodies. that also came within a gnats pubic hair of GC losing a dealers license ,and police fury but again they proved to be able to emulate john conti,the immortal mafioso "teflon don"and slip out of it.
 heather duplessis allen and the .22 case is fairly well self explanatoryand has been extensively postmortmed on here so its a moot point.

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## northdude

The head line says the gun city car park the article says a car park near gun city which is it and why are a few pointing the finger at GC did David or one of his employees fire the shots

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## Maca49

> This !
> 
> Been in the firearms trade for a fairly long time . All three shops I have worked at have had people walk in with loaded guns / loaded mags (some in the gun some not) / live round stuck in the chamber etc etc .


It happens in police stations, centre fire fired inside the building, guy kept his job, would be the pot calling the kettle black?

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## faregame

Yes - however, like the military those locations are places weapons are used as part of their duties

For civilians etc places gun and bullets should only be connected at ranges, hunting areas etc
Not a car park or shop

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## kotuku

> The head line says the gun city car park the article says a car park near gun city which is it and why are a few pointing the finger at GC did David or one of his employees fire the shots


 umm-why would anyone be carrying a loaded weapon in any carpark,let alone one in close proximity to guncity .secondly why was david tipple so widely quoted in the article ,and if GC were not involved why did he not make that clear to the press reporter right from the outset.The way it is reported plus tipples comments lead one to a singular conclusion IMO.
 regardless it is an absolutely idiotic act worthy of a richter scale 9 boot up the jacksie.

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## northdude

> umm-why would anyone be carrying a loaded weapon in any carpark,let alone one in close proximity to guncity .secondly why was david tipple so widely quoted in the article ,and if GC were not involved why did he not make that clear to the press reporter right from the outset.The way it is reported plus tipples comments lead one to a singular conclusion IMO.
>  regardless it is an absolutely idiotic act worthy of a richter scale 9 boot up the jacksie.


in my experience and im sure im not the only one that has seen it the media has a funny habit of leaving stuff out and or adding stuff in to make a sensational story i dont believe every thing thats reported but every one is entiteled to an opinion which one you believe is up to you and yes its a dumb thing to do

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## Taff

Having only worked in the gun trade in nz for less than a year, from what I have seen anything is possible in nz, loaded guns brought in, guns carried in from the car park uncovered pointing waist height, questions like " which bullets fit my gun" " I like the blue box bullets ? What calibre sir ? O I thought they were all the same, " I need a noisy gun ?" So someone letting off a round accidentally would be no surprise.
But the best, " I bought this knife and its gone blunt ? I need a knife I don,t have to sharpen as often ?

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## timattalon

> This !
> 
> Been in the firearms trade for a fairly long time . All three shops I have worked at have had people walk in with loaded guns / loaded mags (some in the gun some not) / live round stuck in the chamber etc etc .


This is not just Guncity this happens at. Ask any gunsmith and they will have seen it once I suspect.....

From what I read, it sounds more like someone has turned up with a (loaded?) firearm going to Guncity rather than coming out of there. As much as people want to paint them as bad guys, they do follow safety procedures and I would very much doubt they would knowingly let anyone leave with a loaded rifle. And finally there is only one person responsible for this and that is the person who was in possession of the firearm.

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## outdoorlad

It beggars belief but it saying that many years I flew some hunters into Stewart island & asked them If there rifles were empty, "yip" & asked if they could show me, guess what? One bloke racks the bolt open & out pops a round! WTF... the scary thing was he didn't seem too bothered about it!

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## MSSPNZ

Hi all, i would firstly like to state, wow, very surprised when i googled the event after seeing it appear on 'stuff' so quickly.
I would like to clarify some information and debates obviously happening over the incident. 
I am the daughter and one of the passengers of the vehicle that was shot. 
Now David i believe went to the media himself as we did not. He was called in specifically to go over the cameras as they were the ones closest and in direct view of where our car was. no more than that. 
We are fortunate that we were not parked 20cm back further (or him 20cm forward) and 20 mins later or him 20 mins earlier or myself and my son would surely still be in hospital or funerals planned for us. The man who pulled up in his utility vehicle had his gun discharge before he even managed to get out from my understanding. It went off, through the panels of his ute and into my fathers pristine car. 
I feel terrible for my dad as we were shopping for a fishing trip next weekend, he has already lost enough in life between cancer taking my mother, earthquakes and a car accident. 
I hope this guy gets more than a slap on the wrist as my father now has no matter how good the panel repair work is, a damaged car that is no longer pristine... and of course insurance will not cover "like for like" only "current market value" 

It is a mystery to us, the police have not made contact since to state the man in question has handed himself in so all i know is now from the media. 

Why it was loaded, we do not know, all i know is that if it went off without a finger to it, that couldve been anywhere and anytime and he is dead lucky that no one was injured. 

The "witness" in the media story saw the man exit his car, voice a few explessives and drive off while on his phone, thinking the guy was calling the police and handing himself in, he didnt think too much more of it and mustve still been in the facinity. 

I hope this clears it up a little for you all. 

Honestly first thought was some big bird lost its load all over the car, second thought was some prick had purchased some of those bullet hole stickers from GunCity as a joke, then i relised and first reaction was to say "holey shit someone shot your car" and push everyone away in case whoever/whatever was still behind us. 

Was not a fun expereice at all.

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## gonetropo

> Hi all, i would firstly like to state, wow, very surprised when i googled the event after seeing it appear on 'stuff' so quickly.
> I would like to clarify some information and debates obviously happening over the incident. 
> I am the daughter and one of the passengers of the vehicle that was shot. 
> Now David i believe went to the media himself as we did not. He was called in specifically to go over the cameras as they were the ones closest and in direct view of where our car was. no more than that. 
> We are fortunate that we were not parked 20cm back further (or him 20cm forward) and 20 mins later or him 20 mins earlier or myself and my son would surely still be in hospital or funerals planned for us. The man who pulled up in his utility vehicle had his gun discharge before he even managed to get out from my understanding. It went off, through the panels of his ute and into my fathers pristine car. 
> I feel terrible for my dad as we were shopping for a fishing trip next weekend, he has already lost enough in life between cancer taking my mother, earthquakes and a car accident. 
> I hope this guy gets more than a slap on the wrist as my father now has no matter how good the panel repair work is, a damaged car that is no longer pristine... and of course insurance will not cover "like for like" only "current market value" 
> 
> It is a mystery to us, the police have not made contact since to state the man in question has handed himself in so all i know is now from the media. 
> ...


thanks for clearing all that up, i hope the idiot in question firstly loses his license and then ends up in prison with a very kinky cellmate who will make his life a misery for 10 years.
secondly i am very glad no one in your family was hurt, as someone who has been hit by a bullet it is not a pleasant experience (although the injury was minimal)

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## 223nut

Good to hear this first hand. Clears a few things up

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## keneff

> Oh ffs


Indeed. Fuckwits are not in short supply. More fuel for the "anti's"

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## screamO

Just the mentality of it all, I know accidents happen but how the fuck as a licensed firearms owner could this happen?
If the gun was already loaded when it was in the car, it would mean it was still loaded from last time he put it in the safe, then pulls it out of the safe without checking, loads it in to his car without checking, hops out of his car still not checking. WTF
Surely if you were going to take your gun to the shop (I'm guessing that was than plan?), you pull said gun out of the safe, check all is clear and load in to gun bag?
It will be interesting to see what happens to him. He needs to go for a skate......not just because he had accidental discharge but the fact the gun must have been still loaded from the last time it was used!

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## 223nut

I'm guilty of walking into a gunshot with a round in the chamber.... Only cause I couldn't get the damn thing out!!! Norino 223 that the bolt I couldn't pull it back without putting buttock on the grousing, looking down the barrel and tapping bolt handle with a hammer....  :Wtfsmilie:

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## screamO

> I'm guilty of walking into a gunshot with a round in the chamber.... Only cause I couldn't get the damn thing out!!! Norino 223 that the bolt I couldn't pull it back without putting buttock on the grousing, looking down the barrel and tapping bolt handle with a hammer....


At least you knew it was in there

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## MSSPNZ

Well just as a quick update. The police are only charging him with reckless use of a firearm. Nothing about fleeing the scene of a crime. And it looks like we may be out of pocket wages, insurance excess and everything else.

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## stug

Ans somehow someone was accidentaly shot in Queenstown

Accidental shooting in Queenstown - National - NZ Herald News

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## stug

> Well just as a quick update. The police are only charging him with reckless use of a firearm. Nothing about fleeing the scene of a crime. And it looks like we may be out of pocket wages, insurance excess and everything else.


Can you take a civil case against him for your expenses?

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## MSSPNZ

> Can you take a civil case against him for your expenses?


Possibly but honestly I do not think my father could deal with it. He's had to cope with a lot and this really was the straw that broke the camel's back

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## screamO

> Possibly but honestly I do not think my father could deal with it. He's had to cope with a lot and this really was the straw that broke the camel's back


Maybe post some photos of the damage...........you never know, there are some bloody good buggers on here that might be able to help one way or anther.

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## screamO

> Ans somehow someone was accidentaly shot in Queenstown
> 
> Accidental shooting in Queenstown - National - NZ Herald News


FFS

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## 223nut

> FFS


+1 get the feeling I should run home to bed for the rest of the day....

The roar is apon us and yet people you don't need to go hunting to get shot.... Not a good look considering the media's stance on firearms at the moment

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## kotuku

thank you for clearing the issue up.Iwill retract my comments re GC .like others i have nought but condemnation for the "nut behind the butt".hmmmm-what if a routine traffic stop had unearthed this wee treasure trove =id bet my bottom dollar all hell would have ensued.
 to the passenger -Im pleased you escaped injury =to the fool -i sincerely hope the judge throws the whole bloody legal library at you cause youre a disgrace to the firearms owning fraternity-you cant even abide by 7 simple rules and put public lives in danger.wow this is like an atomic reactor for the ant gun brigade.-endless fuel for them.

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## MSSPNZ

To confirm, he may of had the gun in the back seat and tried to reach over for it, probably lucky he didnt blow his own head off or have passengers. 
As for photos, lets see if this works as i have tried from my mobile and i couldnt. 
I have no issue against firearms, just the reckless ones who seem to pass getting their FAL.

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## systolic

> Well just as a quick update. The police are only charging him with reckless use of a firearm. Nothing about fleeing the scene of a crime. And it looks like we may be out of pocket wages, insurance excess and everything else.


I never thought it was against the law to "flee the scene of a crime", unless you fail to stop and see if anyone is injured after a  car accident.

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## faregame

What was it - looks like several holes

He is liable for your damage - frankly its the least he could do is pay for it all

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## 223nut

> What was it - looks like several holes
> 
> He is liable for your damage - frankly its the least he could do is pay for it all


Does look rather like a shotgun with buckshot...

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## Guypie

It shouldn't be too hard to get the situation sorted out without going down the court rabbithole. What I think should be your course of action is:

1) go file a report with the police, find out who is in charge of the case and get it all put on the same case number as when the culprit handed himself in (you may have already done this part)
2) Give your insurance company the details of the officer who is dealing with the case and the case number
3) your insurance company should then just confirm it's all tickety boo and pay you out the full replacement value/repair your car, no excess etc as they will get that out of mr accidental discharge.

I'm no expert but from my own dealings with police when someone wrote off my car this is pretty much how it should go down. Sorry you have to go through this, hope it all pans out for you.

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## gonetropo

personally, throw the whole damn book at him !
no excuses, no "had a hard life BS"
if i had seen it i would have pulled the bastard out of his car and laid him out till the cops arrived

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## P38

> To have an accidental discharge a firearm needs to be loaded.  Remind me again what rule number three is.


 @Rushy

And how would anyone consider the deliberate loading of a firearm in such a place could ever be considered as "Accidental"  :Pissed Off: 

Cheers 
Pete

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## MSSPNZ

> It shouldn't be too hard to get the situation sorted out without going down the court rabbithole. What I think should be your course of action is:
> 
> 1) go file a report with the police, find out who is in charge of the case and get it all put on the same case number as when the culprit handed himself in (you may have already done this part)
> 2) Give your insurance company the details of the officer who is dealing with the case and the case number
> 3) your insurance company should then just confirm it's all tickety boo and pay you out the full replacement value/repair your car, no excess etc as they will get that out of mr accidental discharge.
> 
> I'm no expert but from my own dealings with police when someone wrote off my car this is pretty much how it should go down. Sorry you have to go through this, hope it all pans out for you.


You would think so right ?! 
I think the lady we dealt with at the insurance company was just very ill informed. She added a hell of a lot of trouble to something that the company needs to deal with. 
only time will tell i guess. Mean while we know less than mr DT and it technically has nothing to do with him and the police refuse to give any details to us. If this were any regular day and it have been a car vs car and the person run and hide they would be done for not reporting the accident and running from the scene of the crime (from my understanding)

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## Tommy

> You would think so right ?!  If this were any regular day and it have been a car vs car and the person run and hide they would be done for not reporting the accident and running from the scene of the crime (from my understanding)


Totally. You've every right to be severely fucked off imo

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## northdude

our good old injustice system working for the innocent once again  :Pissed Off:

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## Pengy

> Maybe ( I don't know your Dad ) taking this twit to court and making him pay for the damage done   might be the "win " that could perk your Dad up a bit, you know , sticking it to some idiot that deserves it  instead of  just sucking it up



May get a win, but would then have to endure the usual "got no money, will give you $5 a week " BS.

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## 223nut

> Maybe post some photos of the damage...........you never know, there are some bloody good buggers on here that might be able to help one way or anther.


A valid point. Most firearms owners will be disgusted if you don't get some compensation. There are a lot of good buggers on here that may have access to panelbeating and painting equipment....

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## Maca49

> Yes - however, like the military those locations are places weapons are used as part of their duties
> 
> For civilians etc places gun and bullets should only be connected at ranges, hunting areas etc
> Not a car park or shop


Nope this was a rifle that was being stored for a member of the public. Same as the loaded shotgun that was given back to a person and he discharged through the boot of his car?

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## Dead is better

I'd reckon the shotgun issue is more a case of the guy getting complacent with his unloading procedures. Maybe the guy shot till he was too tired to check he was clear (lesson there). Maybe he's in too much of a habit and thought he was unloaded (also a lesson there). Either way that bloke should buy a lotto ticket because a car you can replace. What if that was a baby in a pram....

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## kotuku

> I'd reckon the shotgun issue is more a case of the guy getting complacent with his unloading procedures. Maybe the guy shot till he was too tired to check he was clear (lesson there). Maybe he's in too much of a habit and thought he was unloaded (also a lesson there). Either way that bloke should buy a lotto ticket because a car you can replace. What if that was a baby in a pram....


sorry but COMPLACENCY HAS NO BUSINESS Around firearms.alternatively could we apply complacency to drink driving -i feeling complacent when i had the last beer ,then drove writing my car off and killing innocent people.
NO in both cases simple rules bloody prevail -rules understandable by children in primary schools(the lingo at least)and if you cant understand those bloody rules then NO   FAL.you make it your 1st priority to always be aware of the state of readiness of your weapon, dog tired ,or fresh out of the fartsack dont matter.
I never never fail to frequently check my weapon and if IM hunting in a group -making fellow hunters aware of it.exactly the same. if geese are in abundance as we move in or out of the site -if im loaded all in the party know,so if opportunity does present ,and it has, we can take advantage.
 on return to the truck-Its unload and get someone to verify empty breech&mag before i put the gun in its case.
same with my rifles-mag out ,bolt out gun stowed away ,mag,bolt and ammo all secured.
christ only knows I get the shits when travelling in the truck or car with my armoury -all is locked away and covered up .if a cop stops me and finds this whats he /she to think?? let alone the dubious forms of DNAwho allegedly govern us and make the bloody laws despite that fact that possibly 90%of them wouldnt know a modern hunting weaponif it was to leap up and bite them on the arse.no,its all rambo and  sniper shit they talk,licking party members arses in the process.
as a modern f/a owner we gotta be aware of this.
the lacksadaisical actions of a 50 yr old shooter cannot under any circumstances be condoned nor excused-sad fact of life .otherwise we just serve to enable slack practise ,and we know what that outcome is.

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## ROKTOY

> sorry but COMPLACENCY HAS NO BUSINESS Around firearms.alternatively could we apply complacency to drink driving -i feeling complacent when i had the last beer ,then drove writing my car off and killing innocent people.
> NO in both cases simple rules bloody prevail -rules understandable by children in primary schools(the lingo at least)and if you cant understand those bloody rules then NO   FAL.you make it your 1st priority to always be aware of the state of readiness of your weapon, dog tired ,or fresh out of the fartsack dont matter.
> I never never fail to frequently check my weapon and if IM hunting in a group -making fellow hunters aware of it.exactly the same. if geese are in abundance as we move in or out of the site -if im loaded all in the party know,so if opportunity does present ,and it has, we can take advantage.
>  on return to the truck-Its unload and get someone to verify empty breech&mag before i put the gun in its case.
> same with my rifles-mag out ,bolt out gun stowed away ,mag,bolt and ammo all secured.
> christ only knows I get the shits when travelling in the truck or car with my armoury -all is locked away and covered up .if a cop stops me and finds this whats he /she to think?? let alone the dubious forms of DNAwho allegedly govern us and make the bloody laws despite that fact that possibly 90%of them wouldnt know a modern hunting weaponif it was to leap up and bite them on the arse.no,its all rambo and  sniper shit they talk,licking party members arses in the process.
> as a modern f/a owner we gotta be aware of this.
> the lacksadaisical actions of a 50 yr old shooter cannot under any circumstances be condoned nor excused-sad fact of life .otherwise we just serve to enable slack practise ,and we know what that outcome is.


Agree 100%
No excuses acceptable, we are all aware of the rules, and of the severity of risk if we don't stick to the rules.
Hells Bells, rules or not, common sense has a place, doesn't it. Are we still allowed to exercise that here?

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## kidmac42

> Agree 100%
> No excuses acceptable, we are all aware of the rules, and of the severity of risk if we don't stick to the rules.
> Hells Bells, rules or not, common sense has a place, doesn't it. Are we still allowed to exercise that here?


Common sense is a commodity that is being bred out of nz, cotton wool is its would-be replacement.

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## Rushy

> Common sense is a commodity that is being bred out of nz, cotton wool is its would-be replacement.


Obituary

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years.  No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
- Why the early bird gets the worm; 
- Life isn't always fair; and
- Maybe it was my fault..

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).  His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. 

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. 

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. 

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. 

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. 

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason. 

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers:
I Know My Rights 
I Want It Now 
Someone Else Is To Blame 
I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because 
so few realized he was gone..
If you still remember him, pass this on. 
If not, join the majority and do nothing.

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## gundoc

Having been in the firearms trade for over 45 years I can assure you that there is no shortage of fuckwits with firearms licenses!  It is not that they are bad people, but they just fail to take all the checks that most people do when finishing shooting for the day.  I have personally had 15 to 20 loaded firearms handed to me over the counter.  I have always followed the common-sense course and pointed them in a safe direction while opening the action.  The only two people who never got the full reaming from me were women who were dropping of guns for repair on behalf of fathers or sons, however they both went home with very pointed messages for the offenders.  A loaded and cocked .308 Norma Magnum was passed to me by a Ch-Ch Detective Sergeant (who passed the muzzle across my face).  He got the double reaming with chocolate sprinkles and whipped cream!  He told me it had been in the back seat of his car since a hunting trip the previous weekend.  People make silly mistakes from time to time that endanger others (including me and every other person) and it is part of being human.  Some people just don't seem to get the message that firearms need a constant higher level of attention.  Police, despite the 'superior' opinions of some of them, are humans and therefore liable to the same foibles as anyone else, a fact they need to consider before 'throwing the book' at people.  The list of 'accidental' (I say negligent) discharges of firearms by the Police over the years is very long indeed, and is a far higher percentage than other sectors of society.  Their situation is exacerbated by poor training, coupled with a superiority complex that comes from being in the largest gang in the country.  There are only two types of people that don't make mistakes; those that are not yet born, and those that are dead.

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## tiroatedson

> Having been in the firearms trade for over 45 years I can assure you that there is no shortage of fuckwits with firearms licenses!  It is not that they are bad people, but they just fail to take all the checks that most people do when finishing shooting for the day.  I have personally had 15 to 20 loaded firearms handed to me over the counter.  I have always followed the common-sense course and pointed them in a safe direction while opening the action.  The only two people who never got the full reaming from me were women who were dropping of guns for repair on behalf of fathers or sons, however they both went home with very pointed messages for the offenders.  A loaded and cocked .308 Norma Magnum was passed to me by a Ch-Ch Detective Sergeant (who passed the muzzle across my face).  He got the double reaming with chocolate sprinkles and whipped cream!  He told me it had been in the back seat of his car since a hunting trip the previous weekend.  People make silly mistakes from time to time that endanger others (including me and every other person) and it is part of being human.  Some people just don't seem to get the message that firearms need a constant higher level of attention.  Police, despite the 'superior' opinions of some of them, are humans and therefore liable to the same foibles as anyone else, a fact they need to consider before 'throwing the book' at people.  The list of 'accidental' (I say negligent) discharges of firearms by the Police over the years is very long indeed, and is a far higher percentage than other sectors of society.  Their situation is exacerbated by poor training, coupled with a superiority complex that comes from being in the largest gang in the country.  There are only two types of people that don't make mistakes; those that are not yet born, and those that are dead.


Which cuts it down to one as the dead have made mistakes....


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## tetawa

> Common sense is a commodity that is being bred out of nz, cotton wool is its would-be replacement.


So has accountability and boundaries. We have given up on dealing with the real problem, instead we put safety nets etc everywhere. Another example is driving, lowering speed limits, safety barriers going up everywhere. NOTHING is done to address the poor driving skills, just take the $ off the ones who exceed the speed limit by 4km. The same goes with firearm offending, easier to screw the legal firearm owners than deal with the criminal firearm offenders. Enuff dribble, have a happy and safe Easter.

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## WhistlingWings

> To have an accidental discharge a firearm needs to be loaded.  *Remind me again what rule number three is.*


Don't drink Waikato?

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## Wirehunt

Fuck I'm pleased to see so many people on here that never fuck up.   In fact it's fucking stunning to have such a perfect bunch of firearms users around.

Myself however am not one of them, cause I make mistakes and a know a lot of others that make them too, even with firearms.   If the MAIN rule of firearm safety is followed there shouldn't be a death.  There is only five basic rules,  the last two were put in place by some cock smokers.  Funnily enough I have seen several cops break one of those extra rules several times.

Yep the guy fucked up, yep he was fucking lucky no one was hurt.   Pleased to see all the perfects around here have got him jailed for years even before they have heard any of the story.   Now I will also assume these perfects around here have NEVER had a traffic ticket, or a car crash that was their fault, never had a hairy moment driving offroad with someone else in the vehicle.  Because that would be dangerous and life threatening....

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## Rushy

> Don't drink Waikato?


On ya WW. More for me.

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## kotuku

wire hunt-dunno whats got  under your foreskinbut consider this -WTFvdidnt this bloke check that firearm when he picked it up ,before it was placed in the bloody vehicleand if above threads are as quoted wtf are you doing reaching over the back seat to grab the bloody thing?????oops maybe too tired to get out of car go to back door open it and carefully remove the firearm.as for your wee diatribe on mistakes -you sold yourself right down the drain stating ruleswere made by "cocksmokers!"
weve all made mistakes myself included but from those mistakes has come my absolute determination to minimise any chance i or a person under my supervision will repeat it.I owe that to my fellow firearms owners -after all it seems the idiocy of one(unlike fucking drinkdrivers)is freely used to tar all of us as uncouth incompetent fools.polisof course love this -overlooking the glaring fact they have never legally made an iota of difference to the road tollwith all their selct committees bluster and bullshit.

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## 300CALMAN

One of the great things about the rules is that you generally have to fuck up more than one to hurt someone. Yes people make mistakes but you need to make a number at the same time ie not treating the firearm as loaded, not pointing in a safe direction, Loading a firearm before being ready to fire etc...

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## Wirehunt

Ok  @kotuku,  if their not cock smokers then why are they trying to bring in a law that is already in place and has been since the last round of law changes?  What that also does is shows just how incompetent the people and the people feeding them information are.  Ergo, cock smokers.
So we have people recommending to other people BUT the people doing the recommending don't even know the laws themselves.  And they should, being the police.

Fixed that for you @300CALMAN ....at the same time ie not pointing in a safe direction, not treating the firearm as loaded,  Loading a firearm before being ready to fire etc...

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## kotuku

@Wirehunt-Im not going to indulge in some emotion laden conundrum-there is no point .Youhave your POV-that is your inaliable right to hold that.your expression of your POVdoes let you down .personally the last two of the seven rules make perfect commonsense-id have thought  cocksmokers or no cocksmokers makes little difference IMO.

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## Wirehunt

We did just fine before they decided to muddy the waters.   They were unwritten rules.   The cops can't keep up with the rules and laws now, why make it more unclear?

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## kotuku

the cops are just servants of the incumbent governing body-that governing body in response to the malfeasant /ignorant chirpings of assorted entities indulges in the anti firearms lawmaking exercise.
 For that matter if you feel so uptight contact the cops and remind them of justice jillian mallons verdict and comments in the free standing pistolgrip issue.

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## SlowElliot

High population = more idiot's = more laws.

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## Bonecrusher

Saw today they have a new sign on the door of their Auckland store _"All firearms must be unloaded before entering these premises"_  :Psmiley:

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## rambo-6mmrem

ffs at least the guy sounds like hes taken responsibility for his actions  good on you for that part of it

a mate of mine once brought an old 30-30 winchester at a gun show (years ago) he was cycleing the action and dry fireing the rifle the rifle was checked clear but  he didn’t see the follower wasn’t there after dry fireing 5 or 6 times a round that was stuck in the tube mag dislodged fed into the chamber and when he pulled the trigger the rifle discharged lucky he was pointing the rifle in a safe direction and the round didn’t go anywhere unsafe

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## specweapon

> ffs at least the guy sounds like hes taken responsibility for his actions  good on you for that part of it
> 
> a mate of mine once brought an old 30-30 winchester at a gun show (years ago) he was cycleing the action and dry fireing the rifle the rifle was checked clear but  he didn’t see the follower wasn’t there after dry fireing 5 or 6 times a round that was stuck in the tube mag dislodged fed into the chamber and when he pulled the trigger the rifle discharged lucky he was pointing the rifle in a safe direction and the round didn’t go anywhere unsafe


I've nearly done the same with a BSA sportsman 15 .22lr, luckily I noticed the round chamber.
A mate had a round jammed in his Benelli m2 after duck shooting down the coast, if my mates floor wasn't concrete he'd have had a nice new underfloor ventilation

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## timattalon

> ffs at least the guy sounds like hes taken responsibility for his actions  good on you for that part of it



Yes he went to the cops cos he knew he was in the do do, but did he get in contact with the owner of the damaged car to repair the damage that he caused?  Perhaps MSSPNZ can answer that. If he has not sorted full repairs either in person or via the insirance company, then in my view, he has not taken full responsibility, merely tried to protect his own arse...

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## kotuku

> Yes he went to the cops cos he knew he was in the do do, but did he get in contact with the owner of the damaged car to repair the damage that he caused?  Perhaps MSSPNZ can answer that. If he has not sorted full repairs either in person or via the insirance company, then in my view, he has not taken full responsibility, merely tried to protect his own arse...


aye tim Ill float my stick with you o nthis. it also sounds like the poor buggers insurance company also needs a swift boot up the proverbial-altho its canterbury so whats new.

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## timattalon

> aye tim Ill float my stick with you o nthis. it also sounds like the poor buggers insurance company also needs a swift boot up the proverbial-altho its canterbury so whats new.


We are in Canterbury and our insurance company has been great to deal with after the quakes. (AA insurance) Maybe we got lucky. But that tit needs to sort the damage he caused.

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## 223nut

> We are in Canterbury and our insurance company has been great to deal with after the quakes. (AA insurance) Maybe we got lucky. But that tit needs to sort the damage he caused.


+1 for aa, contents all sorted and done quick smart, yet to get the house looked at though.... Asked to be put on the low priority list though, can live with a cracked window duct taped up

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## MSSPNZ

Hey. Nope no contact from him at all. My dad isn't happy. Insurance were beggars and dad will be making sure the car is as it was. Blackwells have been superb here in Chch for accomadating him. Apparently holding the panels for me to frame too  :Wink:  a bit of "we don't know how lucky we are" lyrics to go with it i think. 
Sadly they won't replace the leather seats as it won't match so we will be looking for a company that will source or repair the minor but obvious damage to once pristine seats. 

We have heard nothing more from police or anything at all from the perpetrator. 

Will hopefully get more information in the coming weeks. 

Would be nice to see if anyone here knows him. An apology would be nice. I'm not angry it happened. Shit happens. I'm annoyed he didn't man up and stay to sort it out face to face.

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## MSSPNZ

We have a court date ! 
this Friday (12th May 2017) 
Not sure on a court room yet but will be in the Christchurch District court. 
I am in touch now with Victim support (apparently the police never filed for us to be kept informed or looked after) so it was all on our own back, to get the court room and name to go and publicly view the matter and see what he will be charged with. 

So here is hoping i can bring the outcome to the thread. 

Lisa

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## madjon_

> We have a court date ! 
> this Friday (12th May 2017) 
> Not sure on a court room yet but will be in the Christchurch District court. 
> I am in touch now with Victim support (apparently the police never filed for us to be kept informed or looked after) so it was all on our own back, to get the court room and name to go and publicly view the matter and see what he will be charged with. 
> 
> So here is hoping i can bring the outcome to the thread. 
> 
> Lisa


So long as he is not an ex all black,there may be a result

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## bully

> So long as he is not an ex all black,there may be a result


Or cop, it makes you wonder why it was this hard to get this far...

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## MSSPNZ

Man accidentally fired rifle through car outside Christchurch gun shop | Stuff.co.nz

Litany of errors in article too... not happy. 

Dad's fuming ... can't say nz police hace dealt with this well. Apparently I'm not a victim in this...however the panic attacks and loss of job don't say that..

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## scottrods

> Hey. Nope no contact from him at all. My dad isn't happy. Insurance were beggars and dad will be making sure the car is as it was. Blackwells have been superb here in Chch for accomadating him. Apparently holding the panels for me to frame too  a bit of "we don't know how lucky we are" lyrics to go with it i think. 
> Sadly they won't replace the leather seats as it won't match so we will be looking for a company that will source or repair the minor but obvious damage to once pristine seats. 
> 
> We have heard nothing more from police or anything at all from the perpetrator. 
> 
> Will hopefully get more information in the coming weeks. 
> 
> Would be nice to see if anyone here knows him. An apology would be nice. I'm not angry it happened. Shit happens. I'm annoyed he didn't man up and stay to sort it out face to face.


these guys are pretty good and reasonable price in chch. 

Car Upholstery Christchurch, Automotive Upholstery Chch

And this guy does great work. Auto & Marine Upolstery, 369 Tuam St, Phillipstown, Christchurch 8011
03-377 5406

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## timattalon

> Man accidentally fired rifle through car outside Christchurch gun shop | Stuff.co.nz
> 
> Litany of errors in article too... not happy. 
> 
> Dad's fuming ... can't say nz police hace dealt with this well. Apparently I'm not a victim in this...however the panic attacks and loss of job don't say that..


Well I have to be honest and point out that the media never lets the truth get in the way of a good story. I mean they have to twist it up to make guns look bad somehow........If they can twist it for a little more drama they will, regardless of the truth...Should be called stuff''d or stuff all as that is about the result and/or how much truth is usually involved...

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## MSSPNZ

Thanks I will pass those details on

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## MSSPNZ

> Well I have to be honest and point out that the media never lets the truth get in the way of a good story. I mean they have to twist it up to make guns look bad somehow........If they can twist it for a little more drama they will, regardless of the truth...Should be called stuff''d or stuff all as that is about the result and/or how much truth is usually involved...


Funnily enough it was the court room news people who wrote it. The whole thing is just an absolute balls up

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## Rushy

This just gets worse as far as I am concerned.  It appears as though his intent was to walk into the shop with a loaded firearm and from what has happened he most certainly is not a well disciplined individual in his handling of firearms as the bloody thing was loaded when it should not have been loaded and at the time the incident occurred he has put his fingers on the trigger and applied pressure.  So what did the judge have to say about the idiot when passing judgement?  I am sure we can all make mistakes but this bugger has made too many to keep his Firearms License in my opinion. In his actions he has failed to follow the code (yes I know the code is not law and it is only there for our guidance) and he has blatantly ignored rules 1,2,3 and 6.

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## MSSPNZ

Court day today. This whole event has caused grief in my family. Here is hoping for some form of relief.
Car is still in the shop  :Sad: 
Dad hasn't been great  :Sad:

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## kidmac42

I hope you get some satisfaction mate. Sad that morons do dum shit like this, makes us all look bad. Good luck

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## stug

Slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket!

Experienced hunter Michael Graham accidentally fired rifle in Christchurch carpark - National - NZ Herald News

A keen hunter who accidentally fired a rifle into a parked car outside a Christchurch gun shop has been left red-faced and been fined $300 today.

Michael John Graham, 50, had taken the high-powered .308 to Gun City in Christchurch to have it serviced on April 9.

But as he was taking it out of his vehicle, he accidentally bumped the trigger.

It fired a shot that travelled through the door of his car and into a woman's vehicle parked beside it.

Graham, of Kaiapoi, earlier pleaded guilty to firing the rifle with reckless disregard for the safety of others.

Today at Christchurch District Court defence counsel Andrew McCormick said Graham was an experienced hunter who has held a firearms licence for 15-20 years.

He was embarrassed and apologetic, McCormick said.

Judge Josephine Bouchier said the shooting resulted in significant trauma for the victim.

She fined Graham $300 and ordered him to pay the victim $984 as reparation.

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## gonetropo

thats bloody ridiculous. $300 plus a grand reparations is a joke

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## zimmer

And no revocation of his FAL?!!

But still, he is a "keen hunter" (WTF has that got to do with his defense) so I guess, like rugby players with some of their antics, we shouldn't be too harsh on the poor fellow.

In the meantime, we as members of this forum have had a wee insight into the suffering of the victims, who could easily have been dead.

I'm surprised also that he legal man didn't apply for and receive name suppression.

Makes the red stuff boil.

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## viper

I read it, up to the Judge to hand out a suitable fine ( to light in this case ) but I just can't for the life of me get over the  wording " bumped the trigger " WTF was it doing loaded in the first place ?
Had it been loaded in the shop as well ? or did he decide to load it in the car park..... unbelievable.

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## screamO

I just hope these Judges are about if I ever do anything stupid.
Sorry sir, I was just walking along with my loaded rifle when I bumped the trigger..........WTF

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## Clint Ruin

> I read it, up to the Judge to hand out a suitable fine ( to light in this case ) but I just can't for the life of me get over the  wording " bumped the trigger " WTF was it doing loaded in the first place ?
> Had it been loaded in the shop as well ? or did he decide to load it in the car park..... unbelievable.


It hadnt made it into the shop it was loaded presumably from the last time he used it .  .Nice thing to have pointing at every person he drove past on the way there.....

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## Cordite

> One of the great things about the rules is that you generally have to fuck up more than one to hurt someone. Yes people make mistakes but you need to make a number at the same time ie not treating the firearm as loaded, not pointing in a safe direction, Loading a firearm before being ready to fire etc...


You are describing "Swiss cheese" accident avoidance.  

Each one of the 7 firearms rules is a separate slice of Swiss cheese with holes.  You now have 7 layers to protect you against accidents, but none of the layers are perfect by themselves, hence the holes.  The more layers you remove... the greater the chance that somewhere a series of holes line up and let misfortune through.

It is true as someone above said that you can never be safe enough and that the seven rules are the bare minimum.  Next time I'm at the gun shop, I'll get one of them orange nylon thingame markers to always stick in the chamber to flag an open unloaded action.  That will be my personal 8th rule.

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## P38

> You are describing "Swiss cheese" accident avoidance.  
> 
> Each one of the 7 firearms rules is a separate slice of Swiss cheese with holes.  You now have 7 layers to protect you against accidents, but none of the layers are perfect by themselves, hence the holes.  The more layers you remove... the greater the chance that somewhere a series of holes line up and let misfortune through.
> 
> It is true as someone above said that you can never be safe enough and that the seven rules are the bare minimum.  Next time I'm at the gun shop, I'll get one of them orange nylon thingame markers to always stick in the chamber to flag an open unloaded action.  That will be my personal 8th rule.


  @Cordite

That's a very good explaination of James Reasons Swiss Cheese Model.  :Thumbsup: 

And yes your right Graham had to fuck up several times in a sequence of events in order for the rifle to discharge.

$300 fine is woefully inadequate, almost embarrassingly so.

Cheers
Pete

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## rossi.45

so how much would be ' enough ' for you guys ?

i have no idea  

R.

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## stug

Loss of licence for a period of time should be a minimum. The fact that no-one was injured was pure chance.

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## gadgetman

> Loss of licence for a period of time should be a minimum. The fact that no-one was injured was pure chance.


That has become a very busy little area over the last few years. You'll notice quite a few of those white vehicles with the go faster stripes and xmas lights on the roof hanging around there a lot of the time.

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## P38

> so how much would be ' enough ' for you guys ?
> 
> i have no idea  
> 
> R.


 @rossi.45

When you compare the seriousness of this event with say a fine for no registration on a car at $200 there seems to be something not quite right.

I'd have have thought this man would have also lost his licence, as to my mind he has proved he is no longer a "fit and proper person"by demonstrating a disregard for the basic firearms rules. 

Cheers
Pete

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## Cordite

No point doing a witch hunt, or a warlock hunt as in this case.  Better to take an airline approach and see what might be learned, rather than just vilify someone who I think feels rather shitty at present.

As per above, I personally have taken away from this that I'm definitely getting an orange nylon chamber flag (what's the gizmo called??) to use in any gun I carry or store, basically whenever the chamber is empty (which is most of the time).  It will also signal "responsible gun owner".

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## Dicko

Your employ judges. Let them  judge. He got off light but you got to move on or you will become s miserable moaning old prick. Life is too short. 


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## kotuku

heres a very simple explanation -where was the god forsaken common variety common  bloody sense huh ??????obviously not there .geez still loaded from last time he used it -well fuck me says a lot about his atitude to firearm maintainence too me thinks.
 just suppose for a wee minute a kiddie or youngster gained access to this "hunters"car-right doesnt bear thinking about........... a .308 round soft flesh enclosed space.............
 oh yes we can be pedantic and rationalise all we like  but at the end of the day,
this is not a fucking good look!!!
If this guys mates start takin the piss,then hes bloody lucky.

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## kotuku

> Your employ judges. Let them  judge. He got off light but you got to move on or you will become s miserable moaning old prick. Life is too short. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


no mate i dont -your aussie judges are a lot like ours -fucking hard to fathom at times-as for the miserable old pricks -dont judge us all by your image in the mirror mate!

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## Dicko

Kotuku, yes their all seem hard to fathom at times. Your a bit sensitive. I'm feel good when I'm looking in the mirror. You perhaps see on the rags


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## GravelBen

> $300 fine is woefully inadequate, almost embarrassingly so.


Still a much tougher punishment than a cop gets for leaving a loaded pistol in a public toilet though if you look at it that way...

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## kotuku

still polish the shackle marks or your ankles and wrists do you DICK.........o.
mate youre full of it

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## gonetropo

> That has become a very busy little area over the last few years. You'll notice quite a few of those white vehicles with the go faster stripes and xmas lights on the roof hanging around there a lot of the time.


you will find them in joes garage most of the time, same with the fire service boys

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## Dougie

> just because some fuckwitt  lost the plot in a Chch car park us responsible fire arms users  should not start doubting ourselves


I think I know what you're trying to say, but I would just like to highlight that we can all learn from this bloke. 

If you think it could never happen to you (and therefore be complacent), you're almost guaranteeing it will. 

I am well aware of the fact that I could very easily shoot another person. It's that fact that makes me behave accordingly to ensure that it doesn't. 


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## Tommy

> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I would just like to highlight that we can all learn from this bloke. 
> 
> If you think it could never happen to you (and therefore be complacent), you're almost guaranteeing it will. 
> 
> I am well aware of the fact that I could very easily shoot another person. It's that fact that makes me behave accordingly to ensure that it doesn't. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good that you believe you could be THE guy, it's a healthy way to think. I double check every firearm I pick up. Constantly checking while handling, all the time, esp while hunting or walking with one, check check check. I will not be that guy, no fucking way. You only fuck up once, and you practise your mistakes. There's so many times this could have and should have been caught by the guy, dozens of times he should have discovered that round in the chamber, disgraceful handling. Him being a FAL of many years should count against, he's been practising shit drills for years clearly.

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## Sasquatch

Aced it @Tommy well said

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