# Hunting > Varminting and Small Game Hunting >  Wanting to build a new varmimt rifle

## clickbang

I've decided to have a new varmint rifle built from a Remington 700 that I have currently in .243
Problem I'm having is which calibre to re barrel to using the .308 bolt face.
I'm leaning towards .20Br. Using a trueflite match barrel.
Any suggestions or advice gladly accepted


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## northdude

do you reload

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## GWH

How far do you plan on shooting? If out a far way why not stay with 6mm and heavy for cal bullets?

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## clickbang

> do you reload


Yep I reload

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## 199p

I would do a 1-7 twist 22-243 and run the 90vld

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## northdude

have a play with some 6mm varmit loads

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## clickbang

> have a play with some 6mm varmit loads


Have tried a couple in the .243 pencil barrel. 58g Sierra and 87g v max. It doesn't like either of them

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## Marty Henry

Good old 22-250, the heads the same plus if you ever need it ammo is everywhere unlike a 22 243 get a fast twist so you can chuck heavier pills as well and everything from rabbits to deer is sorted.

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## bully

I have a 22br. 1:8 with heavy pills they only need to be about 100 fps faster than the 6br to be equal. less recoil. less powder than 22-250. and really accurate.
the 20br is not the go I hear from a guy with both. I forget why, probably barrel life and pills too light.
you won't be disappointed.

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## Double Shot

Me personally the .22-250, about to re-barrel mine to a 1:8 or 9 twist at 22" so i can throw some heavier pills, had it 12yrs and love it, just want to be able to have options.

Be it 40g to 77g she will be great to shoot once done.

That said I have 60g & 70g pills for .243 but have just shortened the barrel, handy for close work on smaller critters.

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## Bullers243

Thats a nice rifle dude,shame it doesnt like those varmit loads.i use the 85 gn hollow point from hornady,works well on rabbits to reds.i kinda agree with the guys suggesting the 22 250.

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## Friwi

I d go 20 br. A mate has one and shoots magpies at 400 yds pretty easily . I have a true flight barrel waiting to be rebarreled soon in that calibre.

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## distant stalker

For long range varmints I have been most inolressed with heavy 6mm projectiles in a range of cartridges (6br, 243ai etc) 105 amax was very impressive. 6xc is in my head as something I want to build but got a few other things on the go at the moment

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## southernman

I have heard that sum of the short BR cartridges, are difficult to get to feed well from the magazine, I have had problems with the .17 & .221 fireball and one 6MM ppc, my sako 6PPC is fine. As is the single stack L46 sako in .17 fireball, I sold of three Remington's, for poor accuracy and feeding/jamming. two fireballs, one PPC.

 so single shot use, or magazine feed, hunting rifle, ?

 I likely look at a fast twist 22-250 or AI, for a long range varminter, or a .243 fast twist for a more dual purpose rifle. 6xc might be a good option as well. 

 20 BR is way over bore, you will smoke the throat in no time, unless shooting 50gr plus

  I have a 20 vartarg on a cooper MTV, and get 3750 fps with 18.5 gr H4198 and a 32gr blitz or v-max, 39gr @ 3450 with a grain less,

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## Friwi

The 20 br is not much more over bore than the 204 Ruger. And barrel life really depends on how many rounds you are going to fire consecutively in one session.i don't see why shooting heavy pill would lengthen the life of your barrel.
You could also go 6mm-284. Easy to neck size down the lapua or Norma brass . Is magazine feeding an issue when you single load for just shooting the odd round at a distant target? 

If you are going to do volume firing then stick to the 223.

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## 300_BLK

Get a 22-243.

It feeds better than any of the 3 22-250's I have owned. You will already have a pile of brass, one pass through the die and away you go.

It can be downloaded to 22-250 performance to preserve barrel life and with a fast twist barrel you can sling the heavy for cal stuff and get 243 performance.

Recoil is nonexistent and the satisfaction of watching a rabbit cartwheel 10m from 300m when you hit it cannot be quantified.

Pretty good on the fallow also.

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## bully

mines single shot so no feeding issue.
110 yards/100 metres. from a bipod/rear bag.
the fifth shot opened it up.

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## Double Shot

Save yourself the hassle and just buy this, same as what you have but in .22-250

TM listing 1393559115

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## Timmay

If you want to keep in mind resale then a .22-250 would be the way to go if not concerned then definitely .22-243. Either way go 1:8 or 1:7 twist, I've shot over half a dozen reds and fallow with the 75gn ELDM .22 cal and it sacks them with confidence and that's launched from a .223 1:8 Tikka.

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## clickbang

I'm leaning towards a trueflite match barrel chambered in 22-250 with a 1 in 9 twist and pillar bedding action into my boyds stock. 😁

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## Matt2308

> Have tried a couple in the .243 pencil barrel. 58g Sierra and 87g v max. It doesn't like either of them
> 
> Sent from my SM-A510Y using Tapatalk


You already have one of the best varmint calibers, there isn't much point trying to load many of the others up or down to try to achieve what you can already do with different weight bullets in the .243...unless you want a smaller case for less powder burn and recoil.

I would have another play with some different weight and makes of bullets and take the time to find out what that barrel likes before re-barrelling to something else.

Try a 95 grain Berger VLD hunting with 2209 for a great dual purpose LR varmint or deer load.
Mine hammers deer and turns rabbits and hares inside out using this combination and is a pleasure to shoot launching them at only 3040fps but utilising a great bc for the longer stuff.

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## Tim Dicko

> Have tried a couple in the .243 pencil barrel. 58g Sierra and 87g v max. It doesn't like either of them
> 
> Sent from my SM-A510Y using Tapatalk


260 big is good. in my varmint rifles i like to shoot high b.c projectiles for wind beating ability

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## Tim Dicko

nice rifle. thoose sightrons are mean.

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## 6x47

6-284 would have to be the real long range option. A mate has one but it's not fully sighted in so we couldn't take it yesterday on a hare session. I really want to see it going, will be spectacular for sure and pests should be in serious trouble at a good 600yds. 

My 6BR is less spectacular on splat factor. The 87 V-Maxs are accurate but just don't come apart violently past 200. One hare was half staggering round with a chest hit at about 250!! Far better in the wind than my .223s though.

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## Bill999

find a pill that your rifle shoots and spend your money on optics

243 is an ideal varmit cal
rebarreling is going to cost what the rifle is worth and you will be right where you are now

there is so many good options for 243 varmiting projectiles, if you want lazer trajectory go with a light flat based bullet. but yes BC will be crap. TNT rounds are great fun
if you choose a hunting projectile and practice on small game shooting at range you will become a fantastic shot and be able to neck shoot anything that walks in NZ

I shoot a kimber 243 for everything big and little

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## rossi.45

going thru the same process, as ya do  . . . . what caliber to get when my current .243 heavy tikka barrel wears out.

i would go the heaviest contour barrel you can squeeze into your stock  . . . good luck

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## csmiffy

This was from over a year ago gentlemen.

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## Friwi

So what route have you taken?

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## ZQLewis

I was going to suggest trying some of the Berger 6mm varmint projectiles first in the 243 before jumping to 22 cal.
Me I would go 22-243 just cos it's less common than than the 22-250 even thought the 22-250's hardly common today.
Zq

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## clickbang

> So what route have you taken?


Just see this pop up.
I still have the rifle as pictured.
Managed to get it shooting a 3/4 inch group with 87g vmax doing 2700fps
Then put a second hand gun works suppressor on it and it is shooting a bit average.
Have not done anything with it for the last few months as have been busy.
Will sort it shortly as there's plenty of rabbits about 

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## 6x47

2700 with an 87 in a .243 is very anemic. Should be capable of ?? 3300, certainly 3200.

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## rossi.45

> 2700 with an 87 in a .243 is very anemic. Should be capable of ?? 3300, certainly 3200.


2700 is on the sad side & .75MOA groups larger than i would want for varminting . . . but its a start and gets ya out there doing it. 

if this addiction sticks it wont be long untill you want more performance from your setup & yourself . . . R

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## clickbang

> 2700 is on the sad side & .75MOA groups larger than i would want for varminting . . . but its a start and gets ya out there doing it. 
> 
> if this addiction sticks it wont be long untill you want more performance from your setup & yourself . . . R


Yep your right. I haven't shot it for 6 months. For a factory barrel I'm not to worried. I'm going to start pushing it faster from here. And hey if I burn the barrel out oh well 

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## rossi.45

from the research on the web i did 1000 shots seems to be the average people talk about before a .243 barrel is done for varminting  . . . some guys go as low as 750, others a high of 1500, so who knows.  
probably depends on your accuracy expectations, the barrel and how you shoot and clean it . . . so far mine is just over 500 shots and still under .5MOA

next time i am seriously looking at the 6BR

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## Bill999

iv had really good runs out of remington factory barrels, im of the opinion that there is a pill it will love
usually they shoot better once the suppressor goes on. thats odd

if you struggle for accuraccy try a flat based bullet they seem to shoot

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## bully

> from the research on the web i did 1000 shots seems to be the average people talk about before a .243 barrel is done for varminting  . . . some guys go as low as 750, others a high of 1500, so who knows.  
> probably depends on your accuracy expectations, the barrel and how you shoot and clean it . . . so far mine is just over 500 shots and still under .5MOA
> 
> next time i am seriously looking at the 6BR


I thought 6br vs 22br, went 22br.
Your right depends on what you expect as far as accuracy, people say .223 does like 3000 rounds or something, I got rid of mine at about 1000. A rabbit is a small critter at distance. And I just like accurate rifles.

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## rossi.45

> I thought 6br vs 22br, went 22br.
> Your right depends on what you expect as far as accuracy, people say .223 does like 3000 rounds or something, I got rid of mine at about 1000. A rabbit is a small critter at distance. And I just like accurate rifles.


thats interesting @bully . . . what twist barrel did you use ?

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## bully

1:8 I haven't tried 50gr in theory they will blow up, and not what I built it for. Probably need faster twist for 90gr I haven't tried. and understand not many people were having success with them.
80gr is good, or even some of the new bullets 80.5 etc. Run the numbers on one of the 80gr projectiles at about 3200 26 inch barrel, and less recoil.

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## Bill999

you could always talk to a gunsmith like mitch maxberry 
he specialises in rem 700s and more than likely can set your barrel back and rechamber it to 6mmbr

a nice fresh chamber and throat will nodoubt help as would a recrown

seems far more work than a ladder test with a few loads tho

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## rossi.45

even more interesting   @bully . . . your right for the same bullet weight the 224 bullet has the higher BC than a 244,  not sure about the less recoil part, there is supposed to be but i could never really tell most of the time.

i remember reading one of those lines that goes    ' choose a bullet and build a rifle to use it '   so what bullet/brand do you use  & how far are you shooting critters out to . . or just as important how far do you want to eventually go out to  ?   your rifle / setup makes me think it might be a looong way out there.

I'm thinking of the 87grn. VMax which i use with success in my .243 . . . seems doable to get 3000fps in the BR.

i look at some of those long sleek high BC bullets and wonder if theyre not more designed for target work & they are expensive comparerd to the VMax etc 
which is important if you have a small budget and shoot a lot . . . in my case with at least 5 other CF varmint rifles

   @6x47 comment ' The 87 V-Maxs are accurate but just don't come apart violently past 200 ' is something to think about  . . but then again i dont know what velocity he has or how much smash effect he wants, i am happy enough with a good centre hit which floors Rabbits but maybe doesn't rip them in half at extended range.

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## bully

> even more interesting   @bully . . . your right for the same bullet weight the 224 bullet has the higher BC than a 244,  not sure about the less recoil part, there is supposed to be but i could never really tell most of the time.
> 
> i remember reading one of those lines that goes    ' choose a bullet and build a rifle to use it '   so what bullet/brand do you use  & how far are you shooting critters out to . . or just as important how far do you want to eventually go out to  ?   your rifle / setup makes me think it might be a looong way out there.
> 
> I'm thinking of the 87grn. VMax which i use with success in my .243 . . . seems doable to get 3000fps in the BR.
> 
> i look at some of those long sleek high BC bullets and wonder if theyre not more designed for target work & they are expensive comparerd to the VMax etc 
> which is important if you have a small budget and shoot a lot . . . in my case with at least 5 other CF varmint rifles
> 
>    @6x47 comment ' The 87 V-Maxs are accurate but just don't come apart violently past 200 ' is something to think about  . . but then again i dont know what velocity he has or how much smash effect he wants, i am happy enough with a good centre hit which floors Rabbits but maybe doesn't rip them in half at extended range.


Yes, I built around the 80amax, which I had success with the .223 but thought more speed would be good. Unfortunately they were not consistent enough, but the 77gr tmk is! It's just a bugger the tmk is expensive. Amax are cheap compared to other target type bullets like Burger. They didn't have 80.5 when mine was built, I think there maybe another new Hornady out that would be good too. (Probably in the country now, wasn't before) Or use targex 80gr. 
Target type bullets like the amax work well on critters.
My initial intended range is 6-700, as ideal, I don't mind trying any distance if i can find them. I don't get that chance too often where I shoot, and it's a whole new ball game just to locate a rabbit that far with binos or a spotter, they get a whole lot smaller. Nobody told me to prepare to update all your binos, spotters etc.
I use a 8-32 scope, I wouldnt have a problem going bigger again.
I've had good success at the full bore range too.

From memory I looked at it something like If the 80 was 100 faster than the 105 (6mm) I'm on par, yet I'm faster again. Probably cheaper bullet too.
I forget the exact details, it was a while ago, don't quote me.

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## rossi.45

> My initial intended range is 6-700, as ideal, I don't mind trying any distance if i can find them. I don't get that chance too often where I shoot, and it's a whole new ball game just to locate a rabbit that far with binos or a spotter, they get a whole lot smaller. Nobody told me to prepare to update all your binos, spotters etc.
> I use a 8-32 scope, I wouldnt have a problem going bigger again.
> I've had good success at the full bore range too.


bit of a ramble  . . . 

been thinking about your last post for a few days         @bully . . . and the difference in location and animal numbers etc makes to choices of optics 


in Central Otago i dont need spotting scopes or overly powerful optics to find the rabbits at LR  . . i have my favourite spots on the station & i know there is going to be rabbits about, the question is how many and whats the wind doing 

i use 10X kahles binos which have great colour / sharpness  . . . spotting rabbits at 7-800yrds is not a problem in this landscape

recently changed the scope on my .243 from a MK4 Leupold 6.5-20X50 to a Nightforce NXS 8-32X56  . . . some thoughts  . . . the extra magnification is helpful when checking accuracy / bullet drop at longer ranges but for me thats all, it hasnt given me longer range on the rabbits . . . i use a 2.5inch square target for LR, if the bullet lands inside the square we are good to go, a great group outside the square is of no use . . . sadly what i can do on my makeshift range doesnt transfer over to field shooting . . you get 1 shot in the field, no adjusting for wind or shooting strings untill you walk the bullet in . . which is all part of it & makes for the challenge eh.

i have successfully missed rabbits out to 900 yards . . i could see them clearly thru my 6.5 - 20X scope, just sometimes ya can't hit the little fckrs . . . ya come close, a few inches of drift out, but close enough so you want to come back and have another go another day.
watched an aussie guys vid shooting rabbits out to +700yrds with a 3-15 Nightforce, that magnification is to low for me even with a very fine crosshair.

this spot shooting across the gully is a real challenge, the toughest spot on the place . . and the most fun . . up drafts, down drafts, always cross winds blowing around all over the place . . when you connect its a buzz



final thought  . . . is it worth having a separate thread on Varminting only and who is doing what / when  . . . the rifles, gear etc

end of ramble . . . . R

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## bully

That's probably the difference. Like you say they are always there. Where as I'm looking for a needle in a haystack often. If there is movement that will help. 
Optic quality probably makes a difference. I use Bushnell fusion the higher power ones, 10 or 12 I forget. Range finding can be difficult too, with mine at least. Big cross hairs for the ranger. Even my scope could be finer, I'm just a sucker for a moa reticle. My spotter is nothing flash.
I'm the kind of person that uses max power at 100 on a rabbit. I guess I just like to put the cross hairs in exactly the right spot..
They say varmints are much like target shooting, with the same gear. I think they are right.
Sure start a varminting thread, just don't mention Harley Davidson, it will go way off track and be pointless. Haha.

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## NZVarminter

> Just see this pop up.
> I still have the rifle as pictured.
> Managed to get it shooting a 3/4 inch group with 87g vmax doing 2700fps
> Then put a second hand gun works suppressor on it and it is shooting a bit average.
> Have not done anything with it for the last few months as have been busy.
> Will sort it shortly as there's plenty of rabbits about 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A510Y using Tapatalk


243 shooting 87vm at 2700, thats way too slow. My 6BR runs them at 3050 with 33g 2208

I have built 2 x 6BR, then 20Br, then 22BR and now onto 6BRX.

I have a spare 0.204 pacnor supermatch 1:9 twist and a a 20BR no neck turn zero freebore reamer if your interested in shooting the 55g bergers in the 20br. Same BC as 6mm 87 vm going at 3600 fps

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## Tussock

I should not have looked in here. My wallet hurts. Where is this Varmint thread?

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## Friwi

I believe the 55 gr .20cal bergers are discontinued
Bullets – Berger Bullets

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