# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  Kimber Montana 308 Load Development

## Tikka7mm08

Stoked to have this wee rifle at last (5.17lb with the Talleys). Looking forward to load development and maybe suppressing as funds allow. Got some Norma brass, CFE223 powder (read good things about it but have other powder too) and some Fed LR match primers. Going to try 168gn LRABs and go from there. Trigger is astonishingly good, v.light and I think the best I have had...bench time will confirm.

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## Gkp

Try win 760 and 168 eldm or 165 targex. Should get you 0.3 moa. What barrel length is it?

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## MSL

22 Id say



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## Stocky

I may have an alloy trigger guard if your interested. It puts it very close in weight to the ascent. Not sure if the newer montana have stainless trigger guards still.

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## Been Upto

Very nice looking foward to see how she shoots. Really want to get a kimber one of these days.

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## Tikka7mm08

> I may have an alloy trigger guard if your interested. It puts it very close in weight to the ascent. Not sure if the newer montana have stainless trigger guards still.


I'll have a look. This it is quite new - 22" factory threaded. Need to decide whether to chop barrel before adding DPT.

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## Tikka7mm08

Quite a difference!

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## Gkp

If the barrel is the same contour as the accent then it will suffer from barrel whip. Shorten it and it will come right. Only one way to find out but.

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## Micky Duck

huge leap in pressure for that extra 135fps.........
760 is so easy to metre its not funny...even just using spoons its dead easy to load with.

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## Gkp

> Quite a difference!
> 
> 
> Attachment 128816


Depends if you are chasing speed or accuracy. If it is anything like the 308 accent I loaded for then cfe 233 won't be the go. Give it a try and let us know which you prefer

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## Micky Duck

my vote would be to try it with suppressor at current length.....you keep velocity high without having to stoke it up quite as much. my .308 is actually 2"s longer than my old .270 and it doesnt bother me too much even in thick bush,now Ive got used to it....the lack of huge ear splitting boom is much easier....

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## MSL

2518grams/5.51pounds, chop it way back!


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## Stocky

> If the barrel is the same contour as the accent then it will suffer from barrel whip. Shorten it and it will come right. Only one way to find out but.


Never had an issue with my Ascent. But it was 6.5 Creed. Did you lea e brake on? If not recoil can show as whip if not resetting.

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## winaa

> huge leap in pressure for that extra 135fps.........


Different units of pressure mate
Don't quote me but is about 52000 CUP is about 60000 PSI in the 308 win.
  @Tikka7mm08 
A well know accurate load for the 308 is 41.5Gr of H4895 (ADI 2206H same powder) with a 168SMK, This is a low pressure target load using Mil brass but will give you a good starting point.
Nosler list BL-C2 as the most accurate powder with the 168Gr and CFE-223 is very similar so you could be onto something.

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## Tikka7mm08

Yes I did some reading on various forums and CFE223 seems rated for 308 and supposedly leaves a cleaner barrel with reduced copper fouling (bonus). Will give it a go. Just need a scope.

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## MSL

Use my premier for load development 


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## Tikka7mm08

@MSL 

Perfect fit, comes up great and still picks up like a toy.




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## Dicko

If you want to use ball powder in the .308 for 150 to 180 grain range, try some WW748.  It should easily match cfe223 velocities and likely go above. 

Very accurate in the 08 also. Start at 45 and work up. Max will be in the 48-49 grain range.

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## MSL

Turn that front ring around and push the scope forward


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## Gkp

How did that cfe go for you?

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## 10-Ring

Worked up to Hornady's max listed load data with CFE 223 using 180 gr Sierra PH's in a 19" barrel Sako and achieved just under 2,600 fps with mild pressure signs. Then started with their max recommend load (which is not safe practice) with 150 gr MK's and got an average of 2,873 fps with moderate pressure signs i.e. no sticky extraction or overly flattened or cratered primers. Will cut that back at least a grain to reduce throat erosion. Haven't tired 165/8 gr bullets with CFE 223 but will do so next week.

CFE 223 shows promise of being a very good powder for the .308, at least in my rifle and a lot cleaner burning than the W748 and W760.

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## Tikka7mm08

> Turn that front ring around and push the scope forward
> 
> 
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I'll have a look again but seemed good...thumb tab for flip cap right beside left hand thumb so works well and only sighting in not hunting (my life story there).

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## Stocky

> I'll have a look again but seemed good...thumb tab for flip cap right beside left hand thumb so works well and only sighting in not hunting (my life story there).


How's your eye relief looking up hill zoomed right in. It must be close to your eye.

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## MSL

same scope


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## Tikka7mm08

Tried it again and works great. Focus ring is wound out too for my eyesight.

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## MSL

Perhaps you are a little lacking in the neck length department, haha


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## chainsaw

Tried CFE223 in my 18in bbl 308 with 165 NBTs and SSTs, groups were shite - like 2moa at best

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## Tikka7mm08

> Perhaps you are a little lacking in the neck length department, haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't be so bloody stupid. It's the lack of shoulder mass.

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## MSL

So you have no neck and pathetic little shoulders..... its ok, you have other redeeming features.... like good taste in whisky


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## Tikka7mm08

I have GREAT taste in whisky, poor taste in friends  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Tikka7mm08

Starting at 46gn up to 47.5gn. 2.805" COAL.

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## Tikka7mm08

Near perfect weather and frame of mind set out to testfire. First group held foreend and boresighter was almost bullseye so fire 2 more and the group opened out. 

Went up 0.5gn to 46.5gn CFE and changed hold to hold on top of scope. Next group brilliant. Primers flattening but not hard bolt lift so didn't shoot heavier powder loading. 

SD respectable as is speed. TBH was dreading recoil as have not enjoyed 308 in past in much heavier rifles inc SLR. Found this more a push than kick and very comfortable. Trigger is outstanding as is working the action.

Very pleased all research came together well. Now to repeat  






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## Tikka7mm08

SD and fps

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## Micky Duck

its plurry amazing what a suppressor will do for your confidence level in any calibre,the .308 is a pleasant doddle to shoot when you remove most of the noise factor...borrow one from someone with same thread and hole in the end and try it.....bet you will buy one VERY soon afterwards.

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## Tikka7mm08

> its plurry amazing what a suppressor will do for your confidence level in any calibre,the .308 is a pleasant doddle to shoot when you remove most of the noise factor...borrow one from someone with same thread and hole in the end and try it.....bet you will buy one VERY soon afterwards.


I doubt someone will have a suppressor for this oddball thread! Plan is to suppress. Barrel is 22" and so might take back 2" and add suppressor. I've had 1 or 2 in the past and the odd brake. I like both.

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## Tikka7mm08

Trying to measure with range buddy...zoomed in this time to pick hole centers.

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## mikee

> I doubt someone will have a suppressor for this oddball thread! Plan is to suppress. Barrel is 22" and so might take back 2" and add suppressor. I've had 1 or 2 in the past and the odd brake. I like both.


You can buy an adapter to go from kimber thread to something more available. You "local" should be able to get one for you from the importers, or you could get the barrel chopped.............mine is away being chopped now to 20 (not a 308 though)

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## Tikka7mm08

Yeah the adapter is pretty unattractive. Comfortably a 600-750y rifle at present.

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## crewe2

with those results id just use it

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## mikee

> Yeah the adapter is pretty unattractive. Comfortably a 600-750y rifle at present.


The guy I have seen with one has loctited  in to the suppressor not on the barrel as he only uses it on the one rifle. 

I really like the Montana much much better gun than the one it is "standing in" for in every respect especially as it cost considerably less and is far more reliable.

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## Tikka7mm08

That is a good idea to have it in the suppressor. Talked to the DPT guys and they said you need to put the back of the suppressor on first as it won't clear the adapter...then the adapter and rest of the suppressor... I think 2" off and a suppressor is the way forward...but not rush now.

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## crewe2

do you want to swap for a suppressed adirondak

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## Tikka7mm08

> do you want to swap for a suppressed adirondak


I was looking at them and the mountain ascent but the stocks of them put me off due to their lack of durability.

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## MSL

Yep, nothing gained going to an Adirondack from a Montana.  The stock coating on the mountain ascent and Adirondack is crap.


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## Tikka7mm08

18" barrel and A-Tec suppressor. Groups not as good as last time. Might go up/down 0.5gn and see if they tighten back up.  Velocity not too bad after a 4" chop.

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## Tikka7mm08

Still working on this post chop and A-Tec Forward 45 suppressor. 2 shots touching and 3rd an inch or more flyer.

46.5gn and 47.0gn on a hot afternoon. SD is great. 47gn I would say is at max as one round bolt lift firmed up and QL suggesting near max too. 46.5gn and seating depth change may help. 

More mag space would be good...limited to about 2.840 COL.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Haven't read through your entire thread but one thing I have found with my Montana is it builds pressure early and is one of the only rifles I have owned that will not run certain loads using ADI powders at over their book max. The flip side of that is it still achieves the same or better velocities but using less powder.

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## Tikka7mm08

@Ryan_Songhurst I'm using CFE223...not sure it is an ADI produced one?? Yes I think it approaches max quite quickly. On QL 47gn at 2.800 COL shoots into the read, while 2.840 COL is under max. Yes it is a bit more complex in the real world but my testing indicates 47gn is at or very close to max. This confirms your experience as it is 2gn below book max and is why you should never treat book max as a conservative figure to start from.

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## Tikka7mm08

Having trouble replicating groups post suppressor. Have made some errors and learnt a bit along the way. I use a Sinclair priming tool...expensive but good kit. Realised I hadn't properly adjusted washers and was putting a slight crush on the primers. Easy fix but ignored it for longer than I should have.

Also got lazy with my hold and realised I could shoot better with the overhand scope hold method. The range practice isn't doing any harm.

Got low on CFE223 so trying RE17 as have plenty. Apparently great with heavy 30 cal bullets so my 168gn LRABs may have been at the lighter end of usability. Started at 47, 47.5 and 48gn with Fed match primers and no pressure signs with speed close to 2600fps.

Today tried 48.5 (2603), 49.0 (2636) and 49.5gn (2640) and again no pressure so will try 50gn and then running out of case to hold it. Groups not there yet...may have to try ELDMs.


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## grandpamac

> Quite a difference!
> 
> 
> Attachment 128816


Greetings Tikka 7mm-08,
A note of caution. The 168 grain ABLR will develop more pressure than the 165 grain Hornady so you will probably need to cut those loads a grain or two. I would use the Nosler on line data if they give loads for CFE 223. The ABLR projectiles are harder due to their construction and run the pressures up faster.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## grandpamac

> Having trouble replicating groups post suppressor. Have made some errors and learnt a bit along the way. I use a Sinclair priming tool...expensive but good kit. Realised I hadn't properly adjusted washers and was putting a slight crush on the primers. Easy fix but ignored it for longer than I should have.
> 
> Also got lazy with my hold and realised I could shoot better with the overhand scope hold method. The range practice isn't doing any harm.
> 
> Got low on CFE223 so trying RE17 as have plenty. Apparently great with heavy 30 cal bullets so my 168gn LRABs may have been at the lighter end of usability. Started at 47, 47.5 and 48gn with Fed match primers and no pressure signs with speed close to 2600fps.
> 
> Today tried 48.5 (2603), 49.0 (2636) and 49.5gn (2640) and again no pressure so will try 50gn and then running out of case to hold it. Groups not there yet...may have to try ELDMs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


Greetings Again Tikka 7mm - 08,
A max of 47 grains looks reasonable for CFE 223 and the 168 grain ABLR as you have found. The 168 grain HPBT Sierra is also is much softer than the ABLR. Nosler does not list either of the powders you have used but its best velocity is about 2,800 with powders I have seen here. Your 2,700 plus with CFE looks about what you would expect. As you have found RL17 is too slow for the .308. CFE 223 is a spherical powder and is not made by ADI. I found that AR2208 and AR2206H worked well in the .308 and Nosler got good results as well.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## Tikka7mm08

I'll see how the RL17 50gn load goes (if it works great because I have a lot of RL17 that I no longer use for anything). It isn't giving up much to CFE223 and I feel that 46gn is max for that powder in my rifle for brass life. I like the ABLR because it also has a good BC, but to TBH I struggled to get it going in my 260AI and it is a fussy projectile. It is the length of the 168gn ABLR that really drives the pressure up....it is longer than similar bullets.

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## Tikka7mm08

The weather has not played ball for testing loads but the wind finally dropped this morning. 

I thought 50gn RE17 might hit a spike as powder is half way up case neck but no pressure signs in terms of bolt lift etc and pleasing accuracy with a slight breeze in play. This with 168gn LRABs.







I then tried some 168gn NosBTs over 46.5gn CFE223. These shot much better than the 168gn LRABs over the same powder:





I also tried some Sierra 165 gamechangers but these did not group so well.

So LRABs with RE17 and BTs with CFE223 seem to be a good landing point.

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## Tikka7mm08

Comparing the loads there is not much between them: at 600y the BT needs 15.24 MOA and the LRAB 14.76 MOA. The energy respectively is 1110 ft/lbs vs 1187 ft/lbs. The BT minimum speed for expansion is 1800fps and it is just below this at 600y while the LRAB only requires 1300fps (these are manufacturer claims). 

Pity I forgot to arm the chrony for one of the BT loads but I suspect it is pretty low SD same as RE17.

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## Tikka7mm08

400y group then a couple of spares shot at 600y off the spartan...not adjusted for crosswind. Scope is 2-10x. 168BTs.

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## Tikka7mm08

Final check in low light on range. BTs are devasting.

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## MSL

Similar size to a whitetail, so a good yest


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## Tikka7mm08

Haha, check was on the range...Mr Hare just happened to hop into sight.

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## Tikka7mm08

Managed to bag a buck on Stewart Is. trip. The 168gn went straight through and would probably try a much lighter bullet next time. It was an unexpected 'long range' shot too at 350ish yards.

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## Stocky

> Managed to bag a buck on Stewart Is. trip. The 168gn went straight through and would probably try a much lighter bullet next time. It was an unexpected 'long range' shot too at 350ish yards.
> 
> 
> Attachment 159601


Nice mate

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## grandpamac

> Managed to bag a buck on Stewart Is. trip. The 168gn went straight through and would probably try a much lighter bullet next time. It was an unexpected 'long range' shot too at 350ish yards.
> 
> 
> Attachment 159601


Greetings Tikka 7mm08,
Looks like you have your load for the big stuff sorted. Perhaps an understudy load with one of the excellent 125 or 130 grains projectiles available these days may be in order for the smaller stuff. Any difference with point of aim could be adjusted with the scope you have. Nice deer by the way.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## Tikka7mm08

Thank you...yes I'm thinking 130gn next time.

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## MSL

> Thank you...yes I'm thinking 130gn next time.



I have some 125s that I would kindly donate...


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## Stocky

155 eldms?

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## Tikka7mm08

> 155 eldms?


Might be good option compared to different loads.

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## Tikka7mm08

Windy NW but tried 155 ELDMs and 168ELDMs both over 50gn RE17 2.800" COAL. The 168gn load shot very well. Ordered a new box and will leave it there until I do a 130gn load. 155gn ELDMs will give another go.

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## Gkp

Keep going with the 168s. You should be able to get single ragged holes out of a kimber with them

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## Gkp

They like to jump

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## Tikka7mm08

That's at 2.8" COL, could try 2.785" COL as that is quite a bit of jump...but really this is ok for 500 yards.

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## Tikka7mm08

Update. Rifle bedded. Not apples and apples before and after as I got a QD A-Tec brake (68gm) to try. It made the rifle shoot like a 223.
 @Phil_H  the 168gn amaxes shot the best! The 168 BTs were the worst and not sure about the 168 LRABs as 2nd shot looks pulled leaving a good 3 shot group (4 total). LRABs and Amax shot over 50gn RE17.

Lovely compact 600y rifle. 



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## Tikka7mm08

QD brake



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## Tikka7mm08

LRABs were 2.805 COAL and without adjusting the seating dies the Amaxs were 2.795 COAL.

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## Micky Duck

you could do a LOT worse than try some 125grn ballistic tips....... they worked very well in the BLR and Zastava..... didnt have to muck around to get 1"ish group at all just picked book load,dropped back couple of grains and bingo job done. for smaller animals they work great,slightly less recoil is great too.your ballistic tip oad may have been better option for bush,but then there are literally dozens of projectile choices I would use before LRAB for that task.
duel loading just makes sense to me......a heavy hitter for bush and your super sleak super accurate load for out further 99.99999999% of times you WILL HAVE TIME to put that load into chamber out of top pocket for the longer shot....your bush load,lets take 180grn hornady round nose, with medium velocity load ,for grins n giggles, will take care of anything sub 150 with ease....at 50 yards you wont regret that choice at all.

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## Tikka7mm08

Yes 125bts go great. Will have to try some down on Rakiura. But the amax should cover me well.

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## MSL

Ive got some nosler 125 BT that you can have


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## Tikka7mm08

Yes that would be good.

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## Tikka7mm08

Sight in today with 168gn amaxs. Same load as yesterday. Pretty happy now. @Phil_H @MSL



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## Tikka7mm08

Nice and still this arvo.

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## MSL

Do you eat any of those targets?


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## Gkp

What powder did you end up using?

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## Tikka7mm08

> What powder did you end up using?


RE17

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## Nathan F

Go hunting now mate

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## Micky Duck

and shoot a deer at probably no more than hundy yards......which couldve done with any factory load...BUT you will be happy LOL.

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## Tikka7mm08

LOL yeah...one day.

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## Tikka7mm08

Final check 168gn Amax over 50gn RE17. Cold day. Quick 3 shots at 100 yards. Drop scope 2 clicks. Quick 3 shots at 400y. Very happy. Scope is VX5 2-10x.




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## MSL

Shit groupd


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## Tikka7mm08

LOL.

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## Nathan F

It’s no sako  :Thumbsup:

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## Tikka7mm08

> It’s no sako


I'd say thank goodness it isn't...but would love a Sako in the safe.

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## Shearer

> Final check 168gn Amax over 50gn RE17. Cold day. Quick 3 shots at 100 yards. Drop scope 2 clicks. Quick 3 shots at 400y. Very happy. Scope is VX5 2-10x.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


At last. Someone shooting a good group that is actually on target :Grin:

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## Tikka7mm08

Loving this Kimber. 2 fallow today bang flop at 371y (me) and 157y (take a boy hunting). Straight through both times but heart and lungs destroyed and ribs/shoulder smashed by the 168gn Amax.

Shot off the Backlanz bipod and it went fantastic.

Young fella said no recoil from the 308. The A-Tec brake tames it to 223 level.

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## Tikka7mm08

Just tested the new CDS turret on the VX5 2-10. Just as well it went OK as yesterday posted the MOA factory turret to a forum member.

Dialed 600y on the scope and my son smoked the gong off a jacket rest as forgot the bipod. I missed (puff of wind... )

168gn AMax.



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## Steelisreal

"Dialed 600y on the scope and my son smoked the gong off a jacket rest as forgot the bipod. I missed (puff of wind... )" - cheeky wee bugger eh? Deduct the cost of the A-Max off his pocket money, that'll sort him out

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## Tikka7mm08

Worse still there was money on it.

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## Tikka7mm08

Tried the Kimber with a H2 A-Tec QD suppressor. Shot very well.



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## Gerardo

> Nice and still this arvo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk


You're on form there mate!

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## Tikka7mm08

Removed stock to fit rail for mtn gear bipod. First group afterwards 168gn AMax 50g RE17.


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## dannyb

> Removed stock to fit rail for mtn gear bipod. First group afterwards 168gn AMax 50g RE17.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk


was that shot off the bipod or of the bench ? either way bloody shit hot  :Cool:

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## Tikka7mm08

For bipod and sinclair rest so off bags.

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## deer4u

photo

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## deer4u

Kimber Montana 308 April this year, chopped to 16in, DPT, leupold VX5 2-10 firedot, ultimate bush rig I reckon

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## Tikka7mm08

> Kimber Montana 308 April this year, chopped to 16in, DPT, leupold VX5 2-10 firedot, ultimate bush rig I reckon


Same set up just I stayed at 20". Kimbers are so nice to shoot.

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## Tikka7mm08

*forgot.

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## Gerardo

Can't complain about that grouping mate!  Excellent 

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