# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  New week, new 'Ultra Vires' Police Action

## Koshogi

We have all be discussing the recent 'update' to the Police Arms Code. We noticed the Police attempting to impose new 'requirements' upon firearm owners. Apparently this was merely a 'drafting error'. Most of us cast a dim view on that being accurate.

Looks like the NZ Police have produced yet another 'drafting error'.

Arms Code | New Zealand Police

What legislative change has there been since 2013, that affects mail order purchases? (hint:none)

So purchasing an endorsed firearm now requires a s43a Police Order Form too? Really? Um no...
_43A Mail order sale of firearm or ammunition

(1) Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $1,000 who sells by mail order a firearm or any ammunition for a firearm or restricted weapon otherwise than pursuant to a written order—
(a) signed by the purchaser; and
(b) bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—
(i) has inspected the purchaser’s firearms licence; and
(ii) is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition.

(2) Nothing in this section applies in relation to—
(a) any pistol, restricted weapon, or military style semi-automatic firearm; or
(b) any ammunition for a firearm to which paragraph (a) or paragraph (b) or paragraph (c) of section 22(1) applies._

The law explicitly states that you do not need a s43a Police Order Form for endorsed firearms, as it is already covered by the permit to procure system of s35.

It's bad enough when the Police make up their own 'requirements', its another matter entirely when they attempt to overrule the actual law.

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## Ryan

The list just keeps getting longer... There's certainly no lack of evidence of their callous disregard for the law and due process should they ever be challenged in court.

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## TeRei

The National Govt gives a twat about firearms holders rights.FFS the looney toon Smith dude believes lowering water quality standards improves them.Most MP's are from the highly urbanised areas and do not understand what a gun is unless they can drum up votes by creating hysteria about lawlessness. The majority of illegal deaths in NZ do not come from A cat or E cat firearms; in fact they are extremely rare.The difficulty is that the police never provide proof of their assertions. Simply moronic drivel that the media reproduce which is usually reprinting police handouts.

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## Sasquatch

Sounds like to make it so slow people wont even bother.

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## Danger Mouse

> The National Govt gives a twat about firearms holders rights.FFS the looney toon Smith dude believes lowering water quality standards improves them.Most MP's are from the highly urbanised areas and do not understand what a gun is unless they can drum up votes by creating hysteria about lawlessness. The majority of illegal deaths in NZ do not come from A cat or E cat firearms; in fact they are extremely rare.The difficulty is that the police never provide proof of their assertions. Simply moronic drivel that the media reproduce which is usually reprinting police handouts.



The problem is the police just lie. To the politicians and the public because they have some sort of hysteria about lawful owners. I do not trust or have any faith in the nz police, as a result of their recent actions.

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## Jexla

LAFAO's have little trust in the ability of the police to administer the arms act. I say it's time it's taken from them and a new entity is made to do so.

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## systolic

> The problem is the police just lie. To the politicians and the public because they have some sort of hysteria about lawful owners. I do not trust or have any faith in the nz police, as a result of their recent actions.


Have you made a complaint to anyone who can do anything about it?

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## Danger Mouse

> Yeah - you tell us who will do something about it without having to go to the court system and we will.  At this stage we as the LAFAO (law abiding firearms owners) are running out of trust patience and respect for the people who are tasked with administering this system.
> 
> If they don't have to respect and obey the law that they are tasked with administering why should the rest of NZ?



Its becoming more and more obvious that the nz police just make s&^t up, and lie their way through the job, with a dash of incompetence. Quite a few people need to lose their job.

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## timattalon

> Its becoming more and more obvious that the nz police just make s&^t up, and lie their way through the job, with a dash of incompetence. Quite a few people need to lose their job.


I dont disagree. Problem is; the ones who need to lose their job because they are making these decisions are the ones who DO the firing. (the top cheese) What happens is the ones who follow law and point the mistake out to these idiots are the ones more likely to be on the chopping so to speak....and these are the very ones we need to stay as Police.

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## jackson21

"Anecdotal evidence" is that Police overseas recruiting a number of years ago has now seen many of these ex UK bobbies rise up the ranks to senior NZ police positions. 
They now see fit to bring UK gun laws here and seem intent on manufacturing reasons to do so.

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## Ryan

Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.

Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.

Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.

Ron Mark - NZ First MP, Richard Prosser MP - New Zealand First List MP, as per your policy, we need to remove police from administering the Arms Act. They are incompetent. They are now a law unto themselves.

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## systolic

> Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/
> 
> Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.
> 
> Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.
> 
> Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.
> 
> Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.
> ...


Isn't that exactly why the cops wanted that new section put into the Arms Act? 

Putting a section into law and then using that section? Blind Freddie could have seen that coming?

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## 300CALMAN

So they are just going ahead and doing it law change or not.

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## Beavis

I think police HQ have well and truely shown their hand.

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## Ryan

> Isn't that exactly why the cops wanted that new section put into the Arms Act? 
> 
> Putting a section into law and then using that section? Blind Freddie could have seen that coming?

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## systolic

> So they are just going ahead and doing it law change or not.


The law was changed about three or four years ago. I'm suprised it's taken them this long to start using it.

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## Beavis

> The law was changed about three or four years ago. I'm suprised it's taken them this long to start using it.


They haven't used it though. No order in council has passed regarding this. They are just making it up themselves, business as usual.

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## WallyR

Went looking for definition of 'ultra vires', as I wasn't sure what koshogi and others meant.
Found this link which would be helpful to others who are unsure of the term.

http://www.open.edu/openlearn/societ...section-3.12.1

I'd like to say that I'm no 'stupid', but 'less well informed' than I should be, regarding the Latin used by other posters.
Found this link quite useful in understanding what ultra vires really means, and the outrageous statements and requirements being foisted on LAFAO's.
Seems to me that the PNHQ are trying to get all firearms banned - by whatever means possible - so that their inefficiencies and shortcomings won't be exposed.

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## systolic

> They haven't used it though. No order in council has passed regarding this. They are just making it up themselves, business as usual.


Apart from a Facebook post, what is to say they are doing it?

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## Beavis

> Apart from a Facebook post, what is to say they are doing it?


Absolutely nothing - other than the word of the affected dealer. They tend to shy away from putting these policies in writing.

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## timattalon

> Source: https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz/
> 
> Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's.
> 
> Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's. This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.
> 
> Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's. We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council. Paula Bennett once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.
> 
> Stuart Nash MP you have talked to FOUNZ about removing police's ability to make law at will with an Order in Council. We suggest they may not be far off, again attempting to subvert the parliamentary law making process. It might be time for opposition parties to stand up to the police state we are descending into.
> ...


Letter to the MPs

_Hello Paula Bennett

Once again the police are running amok under your watch, inventing law through groundless policy. We recently saw this with the Arms Code 2017. Now you are allowing police to redefine a type of gun.

I have been made aware of a policy change by the New Zealand Police Head Quarters (as detailed in the link below) defining ALL AR type rifles as E cat when importing. Even if they are Not MSSA (E cat) they are being defined as such. I cannot find anywhere in the arms act, any mention of Police being able to reclassify an A cat firearm as E cat when it does not have ANY E cat features. This means the Police are acting outside their mandate of upholding the law and are attempting to write it. (again!!!) They want the respect of the public yet time and time again, they step forward and march us towards a state where the Police write the law.

https://m.facebook.com/firearmowners...id=18&__tn__=C

Police are now reclassifying all imported AR15's as MSSA's
Police have once again overreached their authority. As of today, dealers now need to apply for an E cat import permit to bring in A Category AR15's.
This effectively allows police to apply the special reason requirement to all AR imports. If police don't think you have a need for an A cat AR15 then they will decline your application.
Police are attempting to declare guns which are not, by definition MSSA's, as MSSA's.
We suspect this is a precursor to declaring all AR15's as MSSA's utilizing Polices power to create their own laws with an Order In Council.

With regards to this policy change I have a simple question:

It appears that those in charge of initiating these policies have so little respect for the law they are charged to uphold, that they are prepared to write and enforce their own versions of the law beyond what is legally allowed. If they no longer have respect for the law, does this also mean they are no longer fit for the position they are employed in as they no longer law abiding people? If so I would ask that you seek their resignation if they continue to try enforce laws that have not been passed into legislation?

With an election fast approaching, it seems the Police are doing everything they can to undermine our government.

Thank you for your tim_e
Me  (Name changed)

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## mikee

> At what point do  the police consider themselves  not fit and proper people to handle fire arms.


I think like the Defense force they are "specifically exempt" from the Arms act during the "course of their duties". I would have thought however in order the become a member of the police you would be held to a higher standard than us "commoners".

I have lived in a Police State (Turkmenistan) in the 90's and we are fast heading in that direction I fear. People there were openly fearful of the criminals and the Police and the Secret Police..

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## Jexla

> Apart from a Facebook post, what is to say they are doing it?


I understand your skepticism, and I am often much the same when it comes to this sort of situation. You have no idea how much I've begged people to get this stuff in writing, but it's just not possible.

The AO gets left to pass on the message to the applicants from PNHQ, thing is the AO knows they can't implicate themselves in writing to have PNHQ deny ever requesting it like they have now done in this case (much like the arms code scenario)

It's a tricky situation for us, I can confirm we've had other dealers contact us with the exact same issue dating back to July. They however fear that coming out about the issue publicly will negatively affect their business because of how the police will treat them in the future, which is why they have contacted us and COLFO privately.

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## Beaker

@Jexla, when you say "us", who is that?

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## Jexla

> @Jexla, when you say "us", who is that?


"us" in the first instance meant LAFAO.

After that I am referring to FOUNZ.

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## Beaker

> FOUNZ


Thanks for that.

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## Wirehunt

> "us" in the first instance meant LAFAO.
> 
> After that I am referring to FOUNZ.


OK, what are they?

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## Jexla

> OK, what are they?


Law abiding firearm owners and FIREARM OWNERS UNITED NZ – Uniting Firearm Owners Of New Zealand / https://www.facebook.com/firearmownersunitednz

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## Wirehunt

Thanks.

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## Wirehunt

Needs an email follow thing.   Some of us don't bookface.

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## Jexla

> Needs an email follow thing.   Some of us don't bookface.


Our website is updated as regularly as facebook.

Would you be interested in an email alert every time we post something on our website?

Personally I'd find that annoying.

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## Jexla

I've now set exactly that up. Please sign up via the main page of our website on the right hand side.

Currently you will receive an email every time a new article is posted, however we're seeking feedback on alternative ways that you can PM me here, email us at info@founz.co.nz message us on facebook or use the contact us from on our website.

FIREARM OWNERS UNITED NZ  Uniting Firearm Owners Of New Zealand

Thanks!

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## Sideshow

Nice work there Jexla, good to see some people are taking a more organised stance against Police HQ

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## Wirehunt

Thanks Jexla.   I don't subscribe to website often but this is important so it's in.

I don't bf, or rss so some sort of subscribe suits me well.    I run a blog or two and it seems to be the preferred method on them as well.

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## Wirehunt

Have you got that site auto feeding to twitter etc as well?    Some people are very active there.

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## Jexla

> Have you got that site auto feeding to twitter etc as well?    Some people are very active there.


Honestly we've not yet considered a twitter account as we've just set up on another forum and our website. Twitter isn't something I am personally familiar with so would require some learning on my behalf, but maybe that's something I can look into during my uni holidays in a few weeks.

We're currently considering what different legal entities would could morph into so we can take donations to help the cause and to use for things like sponsorship of events etc. We'd love to get merch such as tshirts, hats etc going. We're considering trying to get someone to put forward the money before that happens to get a bunch of artwork done for when that does happen and so we can get a new logo and have artwork for the website etc.

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## Jexla

> Nice work there Jexla, good to see some people are taking a more organised stance against Police HQ


Thank you for your support, please sign up for our email alerts. If the emails get annoying from getting one for every new post, please just reply to one of the emails and let us know and we can opt you out of receiving them and leave you subscribed to emails we manually send that we consider to be important and less annoying.
 @mikee @Beaker @gonetropo

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## GravelBen

I guess you could probably set up a weekly or monthly summary email option too? Depending how much effort that involves.

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## Jexla

> I guess you could probably set up a weekly or monthly summary email option too? Depending how much effort that involves.


With the current system there's no way to automate that, it'd have to be manual and there's no way I'm doing that, especially with only a few signed up so far!

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## veitnamcam

> I've now set exactly that up. Please sign up via the main page of our website on the right hand side.
> 
> Currently you will receive an email every time a new article is posted, however we're seeking feedback on alternative ways that you can PM me here, email us at info@founz.co.nz message us on facebook or use the contact us from on our website.
> 
> FIREARM OWNERS UNITED NZ – Uniting Firearm Owners Of New Zealand
> 
> Thanks!


Signed up.

If the police are acting illegally then logically they can be prosecuted for said illegal actions? and if so why are the people at the head of the changes not finding themselves in prison? Who would prosecute them?

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## gonetropo

signed up.

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## Jexla

> Signed up.
> 
> If the police are acting illegally then logically they can be prosecuted for said illegal actions? and if so why are the people at the head of the changes not finding themselves in prison? Who would prosecute them?


As we've reported on before, Nick Taylor is starting legal litigation with police soon and asked people to donate towards that fund if they could, however legal litigation is only one method of fighting this. Like we saw with the pistol grip saga, the police lost and then went crying to the politicians and got what they described as a "loophole" patched. We've seen great success with the use of social media, and we will continue with that, but to be most effective we must expand our social media reach multitudes of where we're at now, as well as use other methods, many which require funding.


As with all government departments, single people don't get prosecuted, the whole department does.

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## timattalon

> Signed up.
> 
> If the police are acting illegally then logically they can be prosecuted for said illegal actions? and if so why are the people at the head of the changes not finding themselves in prison? Who would prosecute them?


Indeed. I also suggested to the minister in my letter that; if whomever is making these decisions has that little regard for the law they are supposed to uphold that perhaps she should seek their resignation as they would no longer be fit for the job they are tasked with......

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## veitnamcam

> As we've reported on before, Nick Taylor is starting legal litigation with police soon and asked people to donate towards that fund if they could, however legal litigation is only one method of fighting this. Like we saw with the pistol grip saga, the police lost and then went crying to the politicians and got what they described as a "loophole" patched. We've seen great success with the use of social media, and we will continue with that, but to be most effective we must expand our social media reach multitudes of where we're at now, as well as use other methods, many which require funding.
> 
> 
> As with all government departments, single people don't get prosecuted, the whole department does.


One problem is tho that the type of person LAFO are are often not on any type of social media.

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## Jexla

> One problem is tho that the type of person LAFO are are often not on any type of social media.


I agree to a point. Fact of the matter is we have less than 8k likes on facebook, and there's plenty of NZ shooting themed pages who are in the 10's of thousands.

There's over 240k licensed firearm owners, there's far more than 8k of them on facebook, without a doubt.

For those who are not on social media, we have our website with email alerts and we are active on another forum, we're yet to be offered a home here.

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## Boaraxa

> I agree to a point. Fact of the matter is we have less than 8k likes on facebook, and there's plenty of NZ shooting themed pages who are in the 10's of thousands.
> 
> There's over 240k licensed firearm owners, there's far more than 8k of them on facebook, without a doubt.
> 
> For those who are not on social media, we have our website with email alerts and we are active on another forum, we're yet to be offered a home here.


Who,s we ?

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## Jexla

> Who,s we ?


Read back a page.

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## mikee

> I agree to a point. Fact of the matter is we have less than 8k likes on facebook, and there's plenty of NZ shooting themed pages who are in the 10's of thousands.
> 
> There's over 240k licensed firearm owners, there's far more than 8k of them on facebook, without a doubt.
> 
> For those who are not on social media, we have our website with email alerts and we are active on another forum, we're yet to be offered a home here.


The majority don't know and don't care and if the change is going to affect them then they will sadly horse trade the rights of others in order to be able to continue on doing their own thing all the while thinking "it will never happen to them"

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## Jexla

> The majority don't know and don't care and if the change is going to affect them then they will sadly horse trade the rights of others in order to be able to continue on doing their own thing all the while thinking "it will never happen to them"


You're absolutely right unfortunately.

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## Sasquatch

I think a few LFAO's out there who have the mindset "it'll never happen to me" have had a shake up in recent weeks. Some are slowly but surely waking up to the madness.

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## Beavis

The majority of people I don't think are heavily invested enough into shooting to have the desire to get pro active. That's not a dig that is just a reality. It is slowly changing though. People I know personally who haven't given a toss in past years have got off the fence this time.

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## Skitsokiwi

another week another contradiction....

What was said
News and updates | New Zealand Police

What is now being said
http://www.founz.co.nz/wp-content/up...2017-07-19.pdf

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## Tommy

Yup, that's what lying fuckheads do

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## veitnamcam

Id like to think with an election year we could tidy up this corrupt police force that continually operates outside the law they are sopost to uphold and stop them making up laws to suit them selves but I have no answers unfortunately???? on the upside the next world war cant be far off and we will either be dead or enslaved and the survivors will look back with fondness on when NZ became a police state.  :Thumbsup:

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## Beavis

How long till they stretch their made up definition to include other semi automatic firearms? I don't know what else to say. They didn't get their own way with the select committee, and the toys have left the cott. I would call them cunts, but cunts are actually useful. Loosing in court seems to be their favourite past time for almost a decade.

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## Steve123

> Id like to think with an election year we could tidy up this corrupt police force that continually operates outside the law they are sopost to uphold and stop them making up laws to suit them selves but I have no answers unfortunately???? on the upside the next world war cant be far off and we will either be dead or enslaved and the survivors will look back with fondness on when NZ became a police state.


Speak for yourself, I'll have a Netflix binge on Vikings and head to Bunnings and get me an axe :Cool:  .... many axe's  :Cool:

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## veitnamcam

> Speak for yourself, I'll have a Netflix binge on Vikings and head to Bunnings and get me an axe .... many axe's


Ha ha yea just got fiber an Netflix.....loving the viking series.

Axes vs missiles and dirty bombs,super viruses, nuclear weapons etc  is probably not going to end well.

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

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## Steve123

> Ha ha yea just got fiber an Netflix.....loving the viking series.
> 
> Axes vs missiles and dirty bombs,super viruses, nuclear weapons etc  is probably not going to end well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk


I think the humble flint lock would be my apocalypse must have. You can make your own powder and no worries about primers. Might need to invest,,,,,,As the quote says " I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Nothing better than a sick with a sharp stone tied on to the end, except a stick that throws stones!!

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## Rushy

> Ha ha yea just got fiber an Netflix.....loving the viking series.
> 
> Axes vs missiles and dirty bombs,super viruses, nuclear weapons etc  is probably not going to end well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk


So you see yourself as a bit of a Ragnar VC?  Which season are you up to?

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## veitnamcam

> So you see yourself as a bit of a Ragnar VC?  Which season are you up to?


No Rushy.
not sure,have invaded the frogs....not the thread for it mate.
How do we hold NZs biggest gang to account and make them do the job they are tasked to do (up hold the law)?

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## Steve123

> No Rushy.
> not sure,have invaded the frogs....not the thread for it mate.
> How do we hold NZs biggest gang to account and make them do the job they are tasked to do (up hold the law)?


Vote wisely in a couple of months.

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## veitnamcam

> Vote wisely in a couple of months.


No party that I know of has bring the police into line as a policy.

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## Beavis

The only solution I see to this, is real consequences for the people that come up with these fanciful policies. It would be very interesting to know who is driving all of this in the back ground.

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## timattalon

> The only solution I see to this, is real consequences for the people that come up with these fanciful policies. It would be very interesting to know who is driving all of this in the back ground.


Ummmm Poms in police admin? Cahill? Nato? International Monetary fund? or O'Connor depending on level of paranoia or thickness of the tinfoil hat....

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## systolic

> another week another contradiction....
> 
> What was said
> News and updates | New Zealand Police
> 
> What is now being said
> http://www.founz.co.nz/wp-content/up...2017-07-19.pdf


Why is "what is now being said" dated six months before the date on the "what was said"?

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## Beavis

> Why is "what is now being said" dated six months before the date on the "what was said"?


That's a million doĺlar question

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## gonetropo

> I think the humble flint lock would be my apocalypse must have. You can make your own powder and no worries about primers. Might need to invest,,,,,,As the quote says " I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
> Nothing better than a sick with a sharp stone tied on to the end, except a stick that throws stones!!


captain kirk didnt even need a flintlock against lizard man !

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## Steve123

> captain kirk didnt even need a flintlock against lizard man !


Captain Kirk's phone could be set to stun and teleport him though.

Sent from my SM-G388F using Tapatalk

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## Jexla

> Why is "what is now being said" dated six months before the date on the "what was said"?


The date on that letter is wrong from when it was sent to the dealer.
Ask the police why they put the wrong date on it.

If you read the first sentence you can see it was written in reply to an email written in June last month.

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## Sideshow

Shit they can't even get the date right :O O:  man I've seen it here what happens when you get your grammar wrong :Zomg: 
I'm sure someone here will police the police on this and we will have it cleared up in no time  :ORLY:

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## Sideshow

Wasn't it T stone coppers with the last court thing.....are they still employed?
Must be where they went too. Think that is what we call an upgrade  :XD:

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## Koshogi

As an update to this, I received a reply from the Private Secretary for the Minister for Police on 7th August, and the information on the website has now been changed.




> Dear Mr koshogi,
> 
> Thank you for drawing to our attention the incorrect wording on the Police website referring to the Arms Code.
> 
> The message is in the process of being changed to read as follows. 
> 
> Please note:
> 
> Since the 2013 Arms Code was published, there has been a change to processes for purchasing or acquiring a firearm as it relates to mail order and internet sales.
> ...

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## Skitsokiwi

I received this after my email to them a couple months ago, just thought I'd share it

_Subject: Disappointed

Dear Mrs Bennett

I am disappointed

I am disappointed like the majority of legal law abiding firearm owners in this country are.

We are have been ridiculed, attacked, mislead, lied to and let down multiple times over the last year all at the hands of both the politicians and the NZ Police department both established to uphold and enforce the laws of our country as well as listen to and serve the people of this country.

I am not going to go on about how our legal system works, as I am no expert but even I understand the reason for its design, the reason those enforcing the laws do not have the power to make law or interpret the law, that it, was designed to protect society from injustice at the hands of those in power.

My question to you minister is why? when the Police department of this country decide to do exactly that are they not held accountable?

Why the public face of this department can lie on television, radio and in the press and continue to do so even though it contradicts the very values the department stands for (Professionalism, Respect, Integrity, Empathy and Valuing Diversity)

Why is it when the police use a significant sum of tax payer money to publish a "guide" that contradicts the very laws in place, the people making these changes get off without repercussions? 

Why are the Police allowed to blatantly lie to the public that their stance on the arms code remains unchanged, yet tell importers the complete opposite once again contradicting the very values they stand by?

Why are the people at the head of this department allowed to completely disregard the legal system and laws we have in place and not be held accountable?

As I can understand the majority of our fine officers do uphold the laws they have been entrusted to protect and I have the utmost respect for these men and woman (and animals) even once wanting to join the ranks. However due to the actions of some at NZPHQ, the police are fast losing all trust and respect they hold within the firearms community, as I, like many others you have no doubt heard from, are sick and tired of being targeted by unjustified and 'ultra vires' actions

With NZPHQ and the current governments inaction to hold those in charge accountable for these oversteps and establish a clear line in the sand they are making it clear that they have their agenda and will not listen to the people they have been chosen to serve and as election day is fast approaching, it will be interesting to see if they still have the power to establish that line come the following day.

Thank you for your time
_
*The Reply*

_I am writing on behalf of Hon Paula Bennett, Minister of Police, who has asked me to acknowledge your email of 19th July concerning the Police administration of the Arms Act.

Please accept my apologies for a late response.

With regards to the Arms Code the Minister has asked me to pass on that quite a few members of the firearms community have drawn to her attention the appearance of a 2017 Arms Code on the Police website, and also in print.

Members of the firearms community had correctly noted errors in this document.  Police have advised they are aware that it contains a number of mistakes and have assured the Minister that it has been removed from the Polices website and hard copies recalled. Most importantly, as Police start afresh with the process of reviewing the Arms Code, they have given the Minister an undertaking that they will openly and transparently work with stakeholder groups in the firearms community and that any changes will be thoroughly consulted with the sector.

Your correspondence has been noted. If I can answer any direct or specific concerns you have, please let me know.

Thank you for taking the time to write to the Minister of Police.

Yours sincerely,

Jeff Penno_

Am thinking on what to ask in my reply.

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## timattalon

I am thinking you could ask for answers to the questions you actually asked. You asked 5 questions and the answered the third one which in my mind is not the most important one.....

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## Sasquatch

They always appear to dodge the hard questions...

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## Nick-D

> They always appear to dodge the hard questions...


Its the first thing they learn in politics 101

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## ROKTOY

A well written letter.
I would be replying and thanking for the response given to one of your questions and you await the response to the other questions tat you put forward in your first letter.

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