# Outdoors > Fishing >  Inshore fishing under threat?

## Gibo

Seems now that Tauranga pushed the closures of many coastal reefs through under the RMA we will see a flood of this activity across NZ.

This one is a big one, at least they banned commercial trawling and dredging too.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/fishin...A915REYYWtEMh4

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## MB

Watching closely, but it's hard to know exactly what is going to happen. Lots of "consultations" still to be had.

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## Gibo

> Watching closely, but it's hard to know exactly what is going to happen. Lots of "consultations" still to be had.


The biggest issue is that local councils have the power to close what is a national resource. Its a fkn joke.

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## MB

> The biggest issue is that local councils have the power to close what is a national resource. Its a fkn joke.


Smoke and mirrors politics. It's harder to pin accountability on a multiple councils and issues like this get lost between bureaucracy and other proceedings. For the record, I'm all for no take zones (for everybody), but it has to be balanced against reasonable access for recreational fishermen.

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## Woody

It is grim on the face of it. IMO the right of citizens to harvest a natural food source for personal family consumption should be sacrosanct. Certainly there may be sensible constraints on quantity taken but these should not be so small that the family costs incurred in fishing are above the costs of being forced to buy retail sea foods. The imposition on recreational fishers in favour of  commercial fishers is unfair on private families and unacceptable in my view.

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## Gibo

> Smoke and mirrors politics. It's harder to pin accountability on a multiple councils and issues like this get lost between bureaucracy and other proceedings. For the record, I'm all for no take zones (for everybody), but it has to be balanced against reasonable access for recreational fishermen.


With you there mate. Its good for the fish but there needs to be a balance. I think a rooster system could be good too, close some reefs for x years, open them up and close the other reefs for x years. I dunno but this seems like they are going to go after every inshore reef.

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## MB

> I think a roster system could be good too, close some reefs for x years, open them up and close the other reefs for x years.


That would seem like a good solution to me to. In my locality, I would close Whangarei Harbour during snapper breeding season. The fish congregate en masse and are ridiculously easy to catch. They get slaughtered. Obviously, it's summer time and many people only fish at this time of year. Others don't have access to boats that can get them offshore, so it would be a deeply unpopular!

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## Nick-D

> With you there mate. Its good for the fish but there needs to be a balance. I think a rooster system could be good too, close some reefs for x years, open them up and close the other reefs for x years. I dunno but this seems like they are going to go after every inshore reef.


Yep, great time to be a spearo. Literally have our inshore spots reduced by 60% here. As a group we are so reliant on shallow reefs and island structures we get hammered by these proposals

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## Gibo

> That would seem like a good solution to me to. In my locality, I would close Whangarei Harbour during snapper breeding season. The fish congregate en masse and are ridiculously easy to catch. They get slaughtered. Obviously, it's summer time and many people only fish at this time of year. Others don't have access to boats that can get them offshore, so it would be a deeply unpopular!


Agree, we are so bad at managing our resources when compared to say Aussie that have no catch during spawning and actually protect the breeding stock all year round with size limits on say snapper no take under 35cm and over 55cm or something similar as an example.

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## Moa Hunter

A seal cull in the south island would do a lot to balance fish take and recovery imo.

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## Gibo

> A seal cull in the south island would do a lot to balance fish take and recovery imo.


Doesnt sound right to me, killing more wildlife doesnt create a balance, taking less fish will. No doubt the reason they are being a pain is they are forced into these areas as there normal ones are fished out.

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## Finnwolf

> A seal cull in the south island would do a lot to balance fish take and recovery imo.


Sort of kill the seals that kill the fish that we want to kill kinda thing?

I guess we need the fish more than the seals do…

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## Mohawk .308

New protected areas included 6.3 percent in a cable protection zone, 5.4 percent in Seafloor Protection Areas, and 5.6 percent in High Protection Areas - similar to no-take marine reserves but with case-by-case customary rights.

That last part is a bit concerning, I thought we were a team of 5 million

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## muzza

I am waiting till the dickheads give control of the foreshore to those claiming indigenous rights. Then see who can surfcast on the beach or even sit on the sand - let alone launch your boat and catch fish

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## Kiwi Sapper

> New protected areas included 6.3 percent in a cable protection zone, 5.4 percent in Seafloor Protection Areas, and 5.6 percent in High Protection Areas - similar to no-take marine reserves but with case-by-case customary rights.
> 
> That last part is a bit concerning, I thought we were a team of 5 million


Only when it suites...............

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## chainsaw

Yep lots of hui and "consultation" to come - if you can afford time to trawl thru this ?!  
https://www.doc.govt.nz/our-work/sea...-spatial-plan/

...page 57 onwards has some details of what's going to be restricted or closed within Hauraki gulf.  But definitions are vague.
They have to create more no fish zones or reserves in order to start restoring the breeding stocks.
Actually I'm surprised the "no fish zones" aren't more draconian and larger.   Maybe that happens after the "hui"

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## Gibo

Please keep your racial views out of this thread, the same culprits every bloody time

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## Mohawk .308

> Please keep your racial views out of this thread, the same culprits every bloody time


No good burying your head in the sand mate, it’s not going to just go away.

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## Russian 22.

interesting how sanfords wanted to be exempt when them and talleys are the worst abusers of our public resource!

When will get tough on international ships fishing in our waters too? 

I probably won't make many friends but I don't think this goes far enough or deals with the issues that the quota system has.

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## Gibo

> No good burying your head in the sand mate, its not going to just go away.


What are you saying i have to just listen to the racist  cnuts on here, fuck off!

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## Russian 22.

> No good burying your head in the sand mate, it’s not going to just go away.


not every one who goes on about dem plurry maori's does so in a reasonable manner or a logical/rational way. 

your message of equal rules for all will be ignored if you don't put it across in a nice manner

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## Micky Duck

ok so call me dumb/ignorant/naive  but why shut off whole harbour/reef....would it not be just about as effective to shut off half of it.....you could say not fish on south side of line of bouys  but not on north side....be easier to police that way too as could do it from shore with cameras.....
commercial interests have been rapeing resouce forever...I worked in fish factory for a few years and nearly ten on wharf so saw alot..... and the changes a few short years made on resource...
and while Im up on high horse.....why not install pellet feeders on the likes of wharfs to actually FEED THE FISH.....like is done on salmon farms.....wouldnt need to be huge amount and fish would congregate.... where you have little fish you end up with bigger fish....sort of help out the bottom end and attract for fishing folks at same time..... thats a thought from days in fish factory on waterside,where all waste product got turned into fish meal.....dead easy to make pellets and have feeder pop them back into ocean.....wharf fishing is not a scratch on what it used to be.

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## Gibo

> ok so call me dumb/ignorant/naive  but why shut off whole harbour/reef....would it not be just about as effective to shut off half of it.....you could say not fish on south side of line of bouys  but not on north side....be easier to police that way too as could do it from shore with cameras.....
> commercial interests have been rapeing resouce forever...I worked in fish factory for a few years and nearly ten on wharf so saw alot..... and the changes a few short years made on resource...
> and while Im up on high horse.....why not install pellet feeders on the likes of wharfs to actually FEED THE FISH.....like is done on salmon farms.....wouldnt need to be huge amount and fish would congregate.... where you have little fish you end up with bigger fish....sort of help out the bottom end and attract for fishing folks at same time..... thats a thought from days in fish factory on waterside,where all waste product got turned into fish meal.....dead easy to make pellets and have feeder pop them back into ocean.....wharf fishing is not a scratch on what it used to be.


Yeah compromise seems to be a thing of the past

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## Micky Duck

fish arent dumb and would soon work out its safe over here....and stay there,when population gets up they get pushed into danger zone..WIN WIN....

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## Gibo

> fish arent dumb and would soon work out its safe over here....and stay there,when population gets up they get pushed into danger zone..WIN WIN....


Thats pretty much the sales pitch for the Motiti exclusion area but its entire reefs which leaves the fisherman with little to choose from therefore thrashing what is still allowed, not great thinking imo

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## Micky Duck

I hear you.....the bouy idea possibly easier solution.....fish right up to them but no crossing the line or lumped with BIG fine or/and boat siezure  ....sort of the same theory as bird sanctuary being safe breading space,except can move out at will....
in my short lifetime Ive seen wharf areas shut off from public access in Timaru....9/11 was all the reason needed.once locked up they never come back.....

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## MSL

> ok so call me dumb/ignorant/naive  but why shut off whole harbour/reef....would it not be just about as effective to shut off half of it.....you could say not fish on south side of line of bouys  but not on north side....be easier to police that way too as could do it from shore with cameras.....
> commercial interests have been rapeing resouce forever...I worked in fish factory for a few years and nearly ten on wharf so saw alot..... and the changes a few short years made on resource...
> and while Im up on high horse.....why not install pellet feeders on the likes of wharfs to actually FEED THE FISH.....like is done on salmon farms.....wouldnt need to be huge amount and fish would congregate.... where you have little fish you end up with bigger fish....sort of help out the bottom end and attract for fishing folks at same time..... thats a thought from days in fish factory on waterside,where all waste product got turned into fish meal.....dead easy to make pellets and have feeder pop them back into ocean.....wharf fishing is not a scratch on what it used to be.


The trouble with the feeding idea is. The pellets are fish based, from fish processing.


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## Gibo

> I hear you.....the bouy idea possibly easier solution.....fish right up to them but no crossing the line or lumped with BIG fine or/and boat siezure  ....sort of the same theory as bird sanctuary being safe breading space,except can move out at will....
> in my short lifetime Ive seen wharf areas shut off from public access in Timaru....9/11 was all the reason needed.once locked up they never come back.....


Yeah that happened at Tauranga port too. I used to get to work at 4am, fish till 6:30 and start work at 7. Dumb part is all the ship crew just fish from their boat… go figure, i doubt the care to much for nz rules and catch quota either

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## Micky Duck

so where is the problem????
the fish meal is made from waste product ex factories.....Ive spent weeks n weeks n weeks bagging the smelly crap up to send offshore....its already being used so why cant some get diverted back into pellets and fed out.....putting back has never been more fitting.

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## Micky Duck

they would care if ship was siezed.......

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## Gibo

Nah the feed is bad for them. Not natural and over time diseases set in

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## mikee

> interesting how sanfords wanted to be exempt when them and talleys are the worst abusers of our public resource!
> 
> When will get tough on international ships fishing in our waters too? 
> 
> I probably won't make many friends but I don't think this goes far enough or deals with the issues that the quota system has.


I would be interested to know which specific international vessels fish inside our teritorial waters?

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## Mohawk .308

> What are you saying i have to just listen to the racist  cnuts on here, fuck off!


Racist c*nts?? Who are the racist c*nts your going on about? Can you point them out please

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## veitnamcam

They (govt ) look to have got away with inshore set net bans here under the guise of protecting a dolphin that doesnt even exist here.
Look for this to be rolled out accros the country very soon.

Councils across the top of the south and down each coast have been and are trying to close public access to large areas of coast....usually so someone ends up with private access/private beach.
Nelson/Tasman/Marlborough/Westcoast/Kaikoura are all in the shit for access to the sea.

This is how socialism works....control the food control the people.

Having been commercial fishing and recreational I can say there is no one size fits all soulution to anything.....It absolutely has to be area specific.

And if the ecosystem has got seriously out of whack it wont recover by itself without help wether you take no fish or not.

Kina barrens are a prime example.......seabeads smothered in mud are another...

In many cases raising minimum size of some species just means lots of fish being returned to sea to die, often a take the first 5 fish you catch regardless of size and return nothing would actually be better for the fisherys health.

Fortunately here in Tasman and Golden bays most rec species of fin fish are recovering nicely despite increased rec pressure and increased com quotas with the exceptions being blue cod and terakihi and all shellfish.
The bays have gone from the largest scollop and dredge oyster fisherys in the country to total collapse.....Zero take last 5 years for scollops and apart from the last few spots that still had them no recovery.....they bays are smothered in silt from mainly forestry but all development is to blame.

This is actually something we could help fix....studys have been done.....but we are doing nothing instead.

There is no one size fits all solution to any fish species or area.

Im all for a few reserves especially in areas that are hammered but small and access to the coast must be retained at any cost IMO.

It is your god given right to feed yourself as far as I am concerned........be you black /brown /white/yellow/rainbow.

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## Gibo

> Racist c*nts?? Who are the racist c*nts your going on about? Can you point them out please


Couple above my post. Leave it there

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## Micky Duck

> I would be interested to know which specific international vessels fish inside our teritorial waters?


when the squid boats used to fish off Timaru it was like a city of lights out there...always said our Navy should have lots of small fast boats...like MTBs of old and go hard on policing our territorial waters.....dont warn just zoom in,two choices,come into port and forfeit ship,or get in life raft as she about to be sunk....
message would soon get out there.
the joint venture vessels dont do our fish stocks a heck of a lot of good.....the $$$$ go mostly offshore and all the fish does..so country gets bugger all back for hunk of resource gone.

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## Micky Duck

agree on first 5 fish kept thing........it would solve many issues on fresh water fisheries in places too...the canals in particular..... disgracefull the wastage that happens up there.

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## Mohawk .308

> Couple above my post. Leave it there


I’ve read the whole thread and I don’t see any racist comments. Just because someone has an opinion of what’s going on doesn’t make them ‘racist c*nts’

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## Gibo

> I’ve read the whole thread and I don’t see any racist comments. Just because someone has an opinion of what’s going on doesn’t make them ‘racist c*nts’


My last comment on the topic, Maybe the two comments here are not blatantly racist but they are. Happy with their approval to create a seperate thread highlighting their post history as evidence. Probably not something you want to get caught up in though

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## Mohawk .308

> My last comment on the topic, Maybe the two comments here are not blatantly racist but they are. Happy with their approval to create a seperate thread highlighting their post history as evidence. Probably not something you want to get caught up in though


I’ll take your word for it.

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## kukuwai

Sorry Gibo I am not familiar with the situation up there. However i can speak on my local area.

I love catching fish as much as you and many others on here however i do feel that locally the rules desperately need a shake up. 

The bottom structure in our bay has been completely destroyed by years of bottom trawling, there is very little reef left.

I would love to see the installation of some artificial reefs and some bottom trawl  exclusion zones.

We have a local (recreational) minimum size limit for snaps of 25cm which in my opinion is too small and should be increased to 30cm.

We are also permitted 10 snaps per person which is a lot and should be lowered.

Two long lines are allowed per boat. Personally i would be happy if that was reduced to one. 

I despise the recent ban/ban/ban cancel culture as much as the next guy. However....  

We do need to do something to ensure our children and grandchildren can have the same fun, enjoyment and food for their family that we do. I know you will agree !

The question is what is the right path/decisions to make? 

As a recreational body we are terrible at representing ourselves and often the decisions are made by those in an office with very little knowledge of what they are deciding on. 

We need to be a far better collective voice !!
  @veitnamcam you will have something of value to add here I am sure.










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## Micky Duck

OK funny wee story from my past.... relevant here on TWO counts
fishery related...and racism related OK????

young smart arse Brown skinned fella from Temuka was starting to go on about tribal rights...and it got up my nose,so one day when he started in high horse again,I stopped him and asked if I could have MY TRIBAL rights too???? sure why not..he says.... so I replied "my fellas used to come down here,rape your women,eat your children and pinch your friggen greenstone"
his jaw dropped...then quick as you like my Maori mate across the room chimes in "you ever seen the women in TEMUKA? yo uare welcome to them"
jolly near pissed meself laughing
took the heat out of whole situation and young fella shut up on subject.

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## kukuwai

Haha sorry cam we must have been typing at the same time 

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## Gibo

> Sorry Gibo I am not familiar with the situation up there. However i can speak on my local area.
> 
> I love catching fish as much as you and many others on here however i do feel that locally the rules desperately need a shake up. 
> 
> The bottom structure in our bay has been completely destroyed by years of bottom trawling, there is very little reef left.
> 
> I would love to see the installation of some artificial reefs and some bottom trawl  exclusion zones.
> 
> We have a local (recreational) minimum size limit for snaps of 25cm which in my opinion is too small and should be increased to 30cm.
> ...


And thats the thing. I reckon just about every fisherman i know would support a sensible approach with 1 to 2 reefs out of a system of 3-4 closed but when entire reef systems either side of an island are closed it just reeks of ‘cause we can’, they just seem to go way over the top.

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## Mohawk .308

> Sorry Gibo I am not familiar with the situation up there. However i can speak on my local area.
> 
> I love catching fish as much as you and many others on here however i do feel that locally the rules desperately need a shake up. 
> 
> The bottom structure in our bay has been completely destroyed by years of bottom trawling, there is very little reef left.
> 
> I would love to see the installation of some artificial reefs and some bottom trawl  exclusion zones.
> 
> We have a local (recreational) minimum size limit for snaps of 25cm which in my opinion is too small and should be increased to 30cm.
> ...


Yep should be 30cm and a quota of 7 like in the BOP, maybe even 32cm would be better.

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## kukuwai

> And thats the thing. I reckon just about every fisherman i know would support a sensible approach with 1 to 2 reefs out of a system of 3-4 closed but when entire reef systems either side of an island are closed it just reeks of cause we can, they just seem to go way over the top.


Exactly so how can we have our say and make it count?

I remember in another thread that @Russian 22. Stated that change.org was a waste of time so what Avenue should we use.

We down here will all give you our support !!

I am sure of that !! 

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## Gibo

I dont know. But why do Councils have the power to do this? Dont MPI make these sorts of decisions based off research? Seems unless its appealed through the environmental court with enough backing the appeal gets quashed and the councils proceed as they wish. Also seems even when we think everyone is behind the appeal its still never enough and they spin that its based on consultation with the public. Beats me

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## Pengy

Local councils have deep pockets due to ratepayers. They welcome court action as as they have a bigger cheque book.

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## rugerman

And to that end, there should be no commercial catch of Kahawai. I believe at the moment it is caught and sent to Aussie to be used in crab pots. How about leaving it alone so at least you could go out with a surfcaster and bring home a feed. It can be bloody hard work to catch a fish off the beach these days dependant on what part of the country you are in. 




> It is grim on the face of it. IMO the right of citizens to harvest a natural food source for personal family consumption should be sacrosanct. Certainly there may be sensible constraints on quantity taken but these should not be so small that the family costs incurred in fishing are above the costs of being forced to buy retail sea foods. The imposition on recreational fishers in favour of  commercial fishers is unfair on private families and unacceptable in my view.

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## veitnamcam

> Sorry Gibo I am not familiar with the situation up there. However i can speak on my local area.
> 
> I love catching fish as much as you and many others on here however i do feel that locally the rules desperately need a shake up. 
> 
> The bottom structure in our bay has been completely destroyed by years of bottom trawling, there is very little reef left.
> 
> I would love to see the installation of some artificial reefs and some bottom trawl  exclusion zones.
> 
> We have a local (recreational) minimum size limit for snaps of 25cm which in my opinion is too small and should be increased to 30cm.
> ...


Firstly I would say be very very careful what you wish for....
Speaking now specifically about snapper 7

Why would you or any other recreational fisher advocate for a lowering of the recreational catch limit of snapper in our finally recovering nicely....getting better year on year snapper fishery?
You do know commercial quota for snapper was increased in our region last year or maybe the one before? 
Because they argue snapper are so prolific they cant fish the bay for months (or they run out of quota)
And they are asking for  more.....recreational need to grab all the quota they can and hang onto it (legaly not physically ) because once that "share" of the "Total Allowable Catch" is gone we the people will never get it back.

By increasing the snapper quota for commercial and not for recreational  (which they of course should have to at least match the comercial ) they have effectively taken the publics fish (yours mine your dads and mine our childrens and neighbors) and given it into OWNERSHIP OF COMERCIAL COMPANYS.
Short of complete societal breakdown civil war type shit we will never get that back.

Gurnard is up for reveiw right now and I suggest you submit and I would politely suggest you submit along the lines that if commercial quota is increased then recreational MUST be raised to match.
Or it is theft from the public by companies/the govt.

While I would like to think it is every kiwis right to catch or gather a feed the sad facts are this.
There are two groups in NZ whos rights to fish are written into law.

COMMERCIAL

And

CUSTOMARY 

If you dont belong to one of those two groups you have no right to fish written into law and are at the whim of whoever is in parliament at the time.

NEVER advocate for a reduction in limit for recreational of a recovering abundant species.

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## veitnamcam

> Yep should be 30cm and a quota of 7 like in the BOP, maybe even 32cm would be better.


Wrong

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## veitnamcam

> I dont know. But why do Councils have the power to do this? Dont MPI make these sorts of decisions based off research? Seems unless its appealed through the environmental court with enough backing the appeal gets quashed and the councils proceed as they wish. Also seems even when we think everyone is behind the appeal its still never enough and they spin that its based on consultation with the public. Beats me


Forest and bird have a lot to answer for......yes they meddle with our fishing too.

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## Mohawk .308

> Wrong


What do yo propose?

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## Micky Duck

YEARS BACK when F&G took size limit off trout in a lot of regions people jumped up n down saying folks would kill all the young trout and none would grow big. not this K1W1 I see it as good thing,small trout that is bleeding CAN be legally kept,instead of chucked back to die...
the whole catch n release thing is a have...if its NOT DONE RIGHT....... there are photos out there of kingfish with hory great hand print sores on them from the catch n release not done right....I would hazard a guess smaller sea fish that are crook dont last long before being eaten....
any fish thats bleeding SHOULD be kept and eaten,its part of your bag limit...

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## veitnamcam

> What do yo propose?


Well as our snapper fishery is doing well getting better year on year and commercial quota has already been increased and most likely will be again I propose that any increase in quota for commercial must be matched for recreational or it is theft of a public resource.

As I said above. All this needs to be area and species specific.

If snapper are in trouble in your area I would propose no fishing for export from that area, must be sold local market.
Prices will come down and pressure will move elsewhere or different species.
Recreational take will then naturally reduce because of the abundant cheap snapper in the markets.

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## kukuwai

> You do know commercial quota for snapper was increased in our region last year or maybe the one before?


Yes I do. I submitted against it along with many others as I am sure you did but none of the submissions were listened to and the commercial sector got what it wanted despite the submissions being overwhelmingly against it.




> Gurnard is up for reveiw right now and I suggest you submit and I would politely suggest you submit along the lines that if commercial quota is increased then recreational MUST be raised to match.


I had no idea, thanks for the heads up, i will definitely submit and head your advice on the angle to take.

To be honest tho it feels a bit like tackling the mafia around here and i doubt any of us will be listened too.

I guess i advocate for an increased minimum size limit and and reduction in daily limit as i am a passionate recreational fisherman who is concerned for our fishery once plundered and now recovering! 

In saying that you have a far better understanding of the overall situation than I.

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## Mohawk .308

> Well as our snapper fishery is doing well getting better year on year and commercial quota has already been increased and most likely will be again I propose that any increase in quota for commercial must be matched for recreational or it is theft of a public resource.
> 
> As I said above. All this needs to be area and species specific.
> 
> If snapper are in trouble in your area I would propose no fishing for export from that area, must be sold local market.
> Prices will come down and pressure will move elsewhere or different species.
> Recreational take will then naturally reduce because of the abundant cheap snapper in the markets.
> 
> Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk


So are you saying you still want to catch 25cm fish?

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## veitnamcam

> Yes I do. I submitted against it along with many others as I am sure you did but none of the submissions were listened to and the commercial sector got what it wanted despite the submissions being overwhelmingly against it.
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea, thanks for the heads up, i will definitely submit and head your advice on the angle to take.
> 
> To be honest tho it feels a bit like tackling the mafia around here and i doubt any of us will be listened too.
> 
> I guess i advocate for an increased minimum size limit and and reduction in daily limit as i am a passionate recreational fisherman who is concerned for our fishery once plundered and now recovering! 
> ...


Ten x 10-15 pounders is a lot of fish.

Ten 30cm fish is not a lot of fish.... especially if you are the only one fishing for a large family or only once or twice a year.

For you or I that are able to and do regularly get out for a fish and catch 10 is heaps....I very rarely keep my limit.....

but It pays to remember most people are not in a position to do what we do.

So for those that might get a trip with a friend or on a charter once or twice a year hell yea take Ten I say.

I could support a size increase to 30 tho now that trawlers cannot release small fish alive anymore due to the rule change.

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## Micky Duck

> So are you saying you still want to catch 25cm fish?


how on earth did you get that question from that which you quoted????

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## Mohawk .308

> how on earth did you get that question from that which you quoted????


When I said they should be 30cm and a limit of 7 he said wrong... hence the question do you still want to catch 25cm fish
Post #52

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## veitnamcam

> So are you saying you still want to catch 25cm fish?


I never have wanted to catch 25cm fish.
However I agreed with the size in the past because.

It was pretty much all that was possible to be caught from shore here and I think you should be able to catch a feed from shore.

And

Because trawlers had to abide by the size limit too, so I would rather have seen all the 25-30cm snapper they have caught be landed and sold and eaten and most importantly deducted from their quota rather than dumped overboard dead and not counted so they can catch even more.

Nowdays tho with advancements in trawl nets most but not all are using codends that keep the fish alive and swimming mostly untill landed unlike the old days of everything pretty much coming up dead.

So now with the no dumping law that should have been in 30-50-100 years ago the irony is now that for all that time of dead undersized fish being dumped(hence best to have a small limit size) now finally after all that waste the industry over the last few years has finally developed gear that enables most of those undersized fish to actually be released alive and in good condition now they wont be allowed to and they will have to kill them and land them.

Kinda Ironic huh.

So in the past I supported the 25cm for reasons above.
Now locally I would support an increase to 30cm as it is now possible to catch that size from shore reasonabley regularly but mainly because of the law change on "dumping" for commercial 

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## Micky Duck

if 25cm...or 10cm for that matter fish is bleeding when caught,or mishandled...its dead.....just not yet...so it SHOULD BE counted as part of your catch limit....personal integrity and honesty is the only police on the system BUT you keep it and eat it...its used,you chuck it back in and it floats away to be seagull food its wasted resource.
so for me YES  if needed to keep it I would like to be able to do it legally.....but bigger is better.....but not if you killing small ones to get them.
oh and you can fill a toast bread sandwich with a 10cm spotty fillet so snapper will do it better.... beer batter is your friend with small fillets.

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## Mohawk .308

> I never have wanted to catch 25cm fish.
> However I agreed with the size in the past because.
> 
> It was pretty much all that was possible to be caught from shore here and I think you should be able to catch a feed from shore.
> 
> And
> 
> Because trawlers had to abide by the size limit too, so I would rather have seen all the 25-30cm snapper they have caught be landed and sold and eaten and most importantly deducted from their quota rather than dumped overboard dead and not counted so they can catch even more.
> 
> ...


So your happy with 30cm but what bag limit do you want? More than 7 I take it?

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## veitnamcam

> So your happy with 30cm but what bag limit do you want? More than 7 I take it?


It is 10 here and has been as long as I can remember.....the fishing gets better every year and commercial take got increased recently and most likely will again soon so why on earth should we cut our own throats to give it to commercial? 

The only time I would support a reduction in limit is for a area in trouble and if commercial and customary also take a cut in limit (quota)

 Voluntarily reducing rec take for no reason other than to benefit comercial take makes no sense to me at all.

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## veitnamcam

> if 25cm...or 10cm for that matter fish is bleeding when caught,or mishandled...its dead.....just not yet...so it SHOULD BE counted as part of your catch limit....personal integrity and honesty is the only police on the system BUT you keep it and eat it...its used,you chuck it back in and it floats away to be seagull food its wasted resource.
> so for me YES  if needed to keep it I would like to be able to do it legally.....but bigger is better.....but not if you killing small ones to get them.
> oh and you can fill a toast bread sandwich with a 10cm spotty fillet so snapper will do it better.... beer batter is your friend with small fillets.


Some fish are pretty hardy....some can survive and heal like 30 percent of there body being bitten out!
Some can be hauled up from over 100m deep and be released fine others are fucked from 10m.
But yes fish handeling education could be better and some species that are a bit fragile and scarce like blue cod here some people probably kill 20 undersized before they get their legal 2 cod.

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## Nick-D

> I dont know. But why do Councils have the power to do this? Dont MPI make these sorts of decisions based off research? Seems unless its appealed through the environmental court with enough backing the appeal gets quashed and the councils proceed as they wish. Also seems even when we think everyone is behind the appeal its still never enough and they spin that its based on consultation with the public. Beats me


In our local case the environment courts decision was appealed, and the high Court upheld the decision. It was a benchmark case interpreting the responsibilities of council in managing bethnic biodiversity as written in the RMA. Council doesn't want it. They can't afford it and there is no resource, structure or funding to manage it. The only legal recourse now is to change the RMA. One of my hopes with the hauraki spacial plan is that they will need to change both the qms and the RMA in order to enact the plan. Hopefully that allows for more flexible fishery management and brings it back to mpi to manage and not council. 

The scariest part of it all is now any Interest group around the country can take council to court and achieve the same. All they need is for forest and Bird to say the biodiversity of an area is damaged, which by definition every popular reef system around the country is.

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## Russian 22.

> I would be interested to know which specific international vessels fish inside our teritorial waters?


The navy periodically sees off ships of foreign origin. It was in the news ages ago

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## Moa Hunter

> Doesnt sound right to me, killing more wildlife doesnt create a balance, taking less fish will. No doubt the reason they are being a pain is they are forced into these areas as there normal ones are fished out.


I will explain my point, Fur Seals in NZ were reduced in numbers to near extinction. Now there are tens of thousands everywhere along rocky east coast areas. The seal numbers have not been static, they have been increasing exponentially. If the seal numbers were static it would be simple to set fish takes. From 1984 to '92 the rate of increase was 25% per annum. In 2001 the population was estimated at 200,000 so at 25% increase compounding per annum what is the population today ?
If we want a human fish take then all takes have to be balanced with what the stocks can sustain. If we set an allowable fishing take today for a species and next year seals are taking 25% more from that stock compounding, it must put the fish stock under pressure and throw the numbers out. If seals are left unchecked the fishing take will need to be reduced each year to keep the total take sustainable.
I would not be surprised to find that the increase in seal numbers around Banks Pen. has put food resources for Hectors Dolphins under pressure.
Not that I am defending introduced Salmon over indigenous seals, but Salmon numbers here have graphed down in lock step as Seals have increased. This happened in North America leading to the lifting of total protection and seal culls

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## Finnwolf

If seals are problem how is it that many large fish were caught in the ‘early days’ when seals were apparently still prolific?

Maybe because back then humans were less prolific…

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## Moa Hunter

> If seals are problem how is it that many large fish were caught in the early days when seals were apparently still prolific?
> 
> Maybe because back then humans were less prolific


Remember seals were hunted from around year 1800 here and very quickly the seals in the areas later populated by settlers were gone, the seal hunters having to concentrate on areas like Fiordland and islands south of NZ. Settler likely hardly saw a seal. Maori populations dropped too, from 200,000 to 20,000 due to disease thus reducing the fish take. Maori culled seals from their fishing grounds historically.
What also needs considered is that there was not the vast quota takes we have now. I just see seals as one part of the puzzle that has been ignored

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## Pengy

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/...at-ramp-access

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## sore head stoat

> A seal cull in the south island would do a lot to balance fish take and recovery imo.


You are aware that the major part of a fur seal's diet is squid, mostly off the continental shelf ?

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## nickbop

Locking off those reefs in tga isn't going to do anything for fish stocks, it will look pretty to all the bottle diver tourists, they need to be looking at the harbours where the juvenile fish are.
The hauraki is the most depressing dive I have ever done, the bottom that was scallops and sand is now silt/mud and fan worms, there is so many issues with our fisheries and alot of it is out of sight out of mind for fishos too, people bringing up kingy heads until the sharks get full and they can bring one up is another one that people don't seem to care about.
A positive that I have seen is the crayfish in the bop, we never really looked for crays a few years ago as it was like hunting for the last ones, but the rec quota got cut by half and the comms cut by 80percent, the bounce back has been great to see, there is more numbers and now they are getting bigger, bit of a rant but there is problems on both sides(rec and comm) and also run off etc things like these where all parties are around the same table can only be good for the fisheries

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## norsk

How about just shopping all inshore fishing for 20 years?

I bet that 20 years down the track everyone is pleased they did it.

Times change,just like the ban on native logging in the 90s. Could you imagine people's outrage if some logging gang started a clear fell in Westland and exported the logs ?

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## Moa Hunter

> You are aware that the major part of a fur seal's diet is squid, mostly off the continental shelf ?


They seem to like variety. I have watched them at the Waiau river mouth in Nth canty catching flounders. They swam all the way from the sea into lake Mckerrow and cleaned out the sea run trout - a food source that is not natural to them, so they obviously can learn and adapt.
In four years time there will be twice as many as now, what will we do then ?

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## Gibo

No anchoring is a good point. Just imagine the carnage the 10-15 ships are causing out from Tauranga that wait there for days on end! They will be flattening everything! Some are anchoring out by mayor island

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## Rushy

> I thought we were a team of 5 million


We have never been a team of five million.  That is just puffery and nonsense,  I for one am not on that stupid fucking team any longer and I never will be again after what has happened to the country I was once so proud of being a citizen.

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## Mohawk .308

> No anchoring is a good point. Just imagine the carnage the 10-15 ships are causing out from Tauranga that wait there for days on end! They will be flattening everything! Some are anchoring out by mayor island


So what do you propose? They just cruise around until it’s there time to come into the harbour? I don’t think the greenies would be too happy with that proposal

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## Mohawk .308

> We have never been a team of five million.  That is just puffery and nonsense,  I for one am not on that stupid fucking team any longer and I never will be again after what has happened to the country I was once so proud of being a citizen.


Totally agree and I feel the same, that comment was a bit of a piss take  :Thumbsup:

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## sore head stoat

> They seem to like variety. I have watched them at the Waiau river mouth in Nth canty catching flounders. They swam all the way from the sea into lake Mckerrow and cleaned out the sea run trout - a food source that is not natural to them, so they obviously can learn and adapt.
> In four years time there will be twice as many as now, what will we do then ?


NO the major part of their diet is squid off the continental shelf.. variety has nothing to do with anything. Like Berg said they will eat hoki at the back of a trawler, that is opportunism just as is catching a flounder, my guess they would also eat a trout and a herring and a salmon but the major part of the fur seals diet is caught off the continental shelf and it is squid. 

I have no idea what we will do in 4yrs time, lets face that IF your guess is correct ... but to go out and slaughter a heap of seals because a seal is seen eating a flounder or a salmon or supposedly cleaned out the entire sea run trout population of lake Mckerrow...nah.

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## Micky Duck

the other week at 11 sitting at road works along the coast...next truck driver in que says "come look at this" walks over to road barrier and shines torch...there are seals right up next to the road...lots of them..... the barriers are there to stop them going onto road and under trucks.....bumpity bumpity bump....big meaty mess.
was awesome to see so many of them there...the changed coastline has given them MORE rocks n beach to bask on....

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## Gibo

> So what do you propose? They just cruise around until it’s there time to come into the harbour? I don’t think the greenies would be too happy with that proposal


Look at putting in some big fuck off moorings? Fuck knows, whats your idea?

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## Mohawk .308

> Look at putting in some big fuck off moorings? Fuck knows, whats your idea?


They’d have to be some pretty big fuck off moorings, then some on would have to guarantee those big fuck off moorings. Be easier to just let them anchor like they have been doing for donkeys years all around the world.

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## Moa Hunter

> NO the major part of their diet is squid off the continental shelf.. variety has nothing to do with anything. Like Berg said they will eat hoki at the back of a trawler, that is opportunism just as is catching a flounder, my guess they would also eat a trout and a herring and a salmon but the major part of the fur seals diet is caught off the continental shelf and it is squid. 
> 
> I have no idea what we will do in 4yrs time, lets face that IF your guess is correct ... but to go out and slaughter a heap of seals because a seal is seen eating a flounder or a salmon or supposedly cleaned out the entire sea run trout population of lake Mckerrow...nah.


So lets both accept that squid is the major part of their diet. Is squid always available or do they move around ? Is the squid under quota management, if it is wont the exponential growth in the seal population combined with the commercial take put the squid resource under pressure potentially collapsing it, or will seals exploit other fish as a food resource ?

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## Russian 22.

> Exactly so how can we have our say and make it count?
> 
> I remember in another thread that @Russian 22. Stated that change.org was a waste of time so what Avenue should we use.
> 
> We down here will all give you our support !!
> 
> I am sure of that !! 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Any petition needs to be done through the parliament website otherwise it is much less effective and more just slack tivism.

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## Moa Hunter

> wont the white pointers take care of the extra seals now that they are protected from fishing.


I think that culled seals could be frozen whole and donated to needy polar bears

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## sore head stoat

> So lets both accept that squid is the major part of their diet. Is squid always available or do they move around ? Is the squid under quota management, if it is wont the exponential growth in the seal population combined with the commercial take put the squid resource under pressure potentially collapsing it, or will seals exploit other fish as a food resource ?


Lets deal with the known facts not what ifs eh ?

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## 7mmwsm

There was a rumour floating around a few years ago that there was a population of seals on the West Coast which were responsible for spreading TB in cattle. 
I wouldn't be apposed to being allowed to sell their skins and eat them. Providing it was monitored like our fishery.

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## Gibo

> Theyd have to be some pretty big fuck off moorings, then some on would have to guarantee those big fuck off moorings. Be easier to just let them anchor like they have been doing for donkeys years all around the world.


Yeah that's the attitude  :Thumbsup:

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## outlander

> wont the white pointers take care of the extra seals now that they are protected from fishing.


Funny how it seems that racialism eventually rears it's ugly head. I've seen all manner of people pointing out to sea. White pointers indeed...

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## MarkN

> It is grim on the face of it. IMO the right of citizens to harvest a natural food source for personal family consumption should be sacrosanct. Certainly there may be sensible constraints on quantity taken but these should not be so small that the family costs incurred in fishing are above the costs of being forced to buy retail sea foods. The imposition on recreational fishers in favour of  commercial fishers is unfair on private families and unacceptable in my view.


Wot you said  :Thumbsup: 

50 years ago, I used to take my girls friends du jour, to Takapuna beach at night, to gaze at the sea and well, shag them. 

90% of the time we could watch the trawlers working up and down the Rangitoto channel. This trawling was illegal. They would do one direction, with their nav lights on, then switch off the nav lights and do 3, 4, 5 or more passes with no lights and then turn lights on and go home.

The reason I could see them, when the lights were off, is that they had lights in the cabin and cigarettes in their mouths, easy for a young man with good eyesight.

I coincidentally, had a girlfriend, whose brothers were all trawler fishermen and whose father was a, wait for it, fisheries inspector. The Dad would take all the confiscated seafood home. The Brothers would bring by-catch home. Mind you in those days, the snapper by-catch were all the size of goats. I've seen snapper that needed two guys to lift.

As a kid I could go out, on Saturday morning with Dad, off Northcote point and after an hour, bring back enough fish for us, for a couple of days and for several of our neighbours also.

Unfortunately the the commercial fishing industry is predicated on rape and pillage, maximum profit for shareholders, is the only rule they take heed of.

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## MarkN

> ok so call me dumb/ignorant/naive  but why shut off whole harbour/reef....would it not be just about as effective to shut off half of it.....you could say not fish on south side of line of bouys  but not on north side....be easier to police that way too as could do it from shore with cameras......


My opinion, because the fish can't see the line on the map. There's a good argument to expand the reserve at Goat Island, Leigh, because the catch rate just outside the reserve, is depleting the populations inside the reserve. Triple or quadruple it in my view.




> commercial interests have been rapeing resouce forever...I worked in fish factory for a few years and nearly ten on wharf so saw alot..... and the changes a few short years made on resource...
> and while Im up on high horse.....why not install pellet feeders on the likes of wharfs to actually FEED THE FISH.....like is done on salmon farms.....wouldnt need to be huge amount and fish would congregate.... where you have little fish you end up with bigger fish....sort of help out the bottom end and attract for fishing folks at same time..... thats a thought from days in fish factory on waterside,where all waste product got turned into fish meal.....dead easy to make pellets and have feeder pop them back into ocean.....wharf fishing is not a scratch on what it used to be.


Used to be on Pakatoa Island, the cooks would dump the kitchen scraps from the hotel, off the wharf. Some very very big Trevally were caught there...

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## MarkN

> So lets both accept that squid is the major part of their diet. Is squid always available or do they move around ? Is the squid under quota management, if it is wont the exponential growth in the seal population combined with the commercial take put the squid resource under pressure potentially collapsing it, or will seals exploit other fish as a food resource ?


Internationally, the squid populations are exploding due to overfishing of fin fish, particularly by China, Russia and the usual suspects. Also, jellyfish, are much more prevalent in the World's oceans than they used to be, pre the industrial fishing age.

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## Moa Hunter

> Lets deal with the known facts not what ifs eh ?


Page 12 summary

https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...rVz-Q4zBvFEWCu

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## Moa Hunter

> Internationally, the squid populations are exploding due to overfishing of fin fish, particularly by China, Russia and the usual suspects. Also, jellyfish, are much more prevalent in the World's oceans than they used to be, pre the industrial fishing age.


I know the Jelly fish are out of control, I didn't know that was also the case with squid.
All I am suggesting is a pragmatic approach setting emotion aside to achieve a sustainable balance. Do seals or any other non endangered creature have any more or any less right to life ?

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## sore head stoat

> Page 12 summary
> 
> https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...rVz-Q4zBvFEWCu


I notice they don't promote culling .

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## sore head stoat

> My opinion, because the fish can't see the line on the map. There's a good argument to expand the reserve at Goat Island, Leigh, because the catch rate just outside the reserve, is depleting the populations inside the reserve. Triple or quadruple it in my view.
> 
> 
> 
> Used to be on Pakatoa Island, the cooks would dump the kitchen scraps from the hotel, off the wharf. Some very very big Trevally were caught there...


If you want to see some big trevs go to the wharf at Rarotonga.. the huge GTs that feed on the scraps the comms guys chuck overboard while gutting their catch is mind blowing.

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## Moa Hunter

> I notice they don't promote culling .


It seems that I dont word my posts in a way that make my point easily understood, so I will try this:
We are entering unknown territory as far as large seal populations. We do not know what an environmentally sustainable population is. We dont know what the impact of one million seals would be. No one wants seals eradicated but we also dont want to see them breed to level where they exhaust or exceed their food resources. Food resources that are not as abundant as they were historically. I read that seabirds are a favoured food of male seals, does that include the fledglings of endangered seabirds ? I dont know but it is likely.

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## Gibo

Unknown territory......lets kill them!  :Grin:

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## Mohawk .308

> Yeah that's the attitude


Building a mooring for a fully laden container ship which weighs several thousand tonnes??  Mate ya dreaming....

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## Gibo

> Building a mooring for a fully laden container ship which weighs several thousand tonnes??  Mate ya dreaming....


Its still better than your idea smart arse

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## Moa Hunter

> Unknown territory......lets kill them!


And use their bloated bodies for floating moorings

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## Mohawk .308

> Its still better than your idea smart arse


Great idea in theory, unrealistic to implement. You should be a green candidate, you’d fit right in  :Thumbsup:

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## kukuwai

I really am getting sick and tired of these threads which have good beginnings turning into mud slinging matches.

Such a shame, seems to be a common trend of late.


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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## Pengy

maybe this shit has something to do with the bigger picture too 
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-pl...TYJSU5SKUEBSU/

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## veitnamcam

> I really am getting sick and tired of these threads which have good beginnings turning into mud slinging matches.
> 
> Such a shame, seems to be a common trend of late.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Its the Labour partys fault.

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## Rushy

> maybe this shit has something to do with the bigger picture too 
> https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-pl...TYJSU5SKUEBSU/


Those bastards need to have all of their kit (including boats) taken from them and then sit in a manly prison cell for the next twenty years.

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## Gibo

> Great idea in theory, unrealistic to implement. You should be a green candidate, you’d fit right in


If in your fucked up little mind thinking of ways to protect what we have links me to the green party then good on you. It was a three second idea with the time you gave me, yeah totally in-practical but, based on your replies, it is still a better idea than yours  :Psmiley:  probably because you cant form any

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## Shearer

What @kukuwai said.

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## Gibo

Yip sorry that was my last fuck given

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## kukuwai

Its difficult to categorize anything these days as 'impossible' !! 

With the right engineers, knowledge and belief almost anything can be achieved.

Thinking 'out of the box' has lead to some outstanding developments throughout history.

Just imagine if we COULD construct some big 'F-off' moorings. They could act as artificial reefs and as a FAD at the same time. Potentially creating some great fishing.

I made this point in my earlier post



> We need to be a far better collective voice !!


This thread serves to illustrate the reasons why unfortunately this is unlikely to happen.

Too many differing opinions and infighting !!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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## Nick-D

Am I missing somthing with the no anchoring thing? It's only of the reefs, the big boys all anchor on the sand.

It's fucking stupid either way as it means you can't even dive the area recreational in a safe manner. It is the most exclusive piece of fishery legislation we have seen in this country yet.

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## Russian 22.

I'm just annoyed that of all the things they could have done they haven't just adopted LegaSea's new system. Quota system is not fit for purpose so long as corporations are allowed to rape and pillage a public resource while "owning quota" of said public resource. 

Let alone the coddling they get when they fuck around and find out. Only for them to get their boats returned, small fines and no jail time.

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## veitnamcam

Inshore fishing is in trouble in the morning....alarm set  03.45...up, coffee, shit, wetsuit on and out the door to test my new drag net.


The fuckers will try and stop us doing anything fun or productive but I am just going to keep on doing what I can while I can and make the most of what we have left.

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## stingray

Down the west coast , got a look at few epic dragging beaches ...put the idea out amongst locals ...bringing the 40 meter next time we visit.

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## Rushy

> Inshore fishing is in trouble in the morning....alarm set  03.45...up, coffee, shit, wetsuit on and out the door to test my new drag net.
> 
> 
> The fuckers will try and stop us doing anything fun or productive but I am just going to keep on doing what I can while I can and make the most of what we have left.


Make sure you wear your hat that flashes that pink neon “FUCK OFF” whenever council twats come close by.

----------


## veitnamcam

> I really am getting sick and tired of these threads which have good beginnings turning into mud slinging matches.
> 
> Such a shame, seems to be a common trend of late.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Its the Labour partys fault.

----------


## Rushy

> maybe this shit has something to do with the bigger picture too 
> https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-pl...TYJSU5SKUEBSU/


Those bastards need to have all of their kit (including boats) taken from them and then sit in a manly prison cell for the next twenty years.

----------


## Gibo

> Great idea in theory, unrealistic to implement. You should be a green candidate, you’d fit right in


If in your fucked up little mind thinking of ways to protect what we have links me to the green party then good on you. It was a three second idea with the time you gave me, yeah totally in-practical but, based on your replies, it is still a better idea than yours  :Psmiley:  probably because you cant form any

----------


## Shearer

What @kukuwai said.

----------


## Gibo

Yip sorry that was my last fuck given

----------


## kukuwai

Its difficult to categorize anything these days as 'impossible' !! 

With the right engineers, knowledge and belief almost anything can be achieved.

Thinking 'out of the box' has lead to some outstanding developments throughout history.

Just imagine if we COULD construct some big 'F-off' moorings. They could act as artificial reefs and as a FAD at the same time. Potentially creating some great fishing.

I made this point in my earlier post



> We need to be a far better collective voice !!


This thread serves to illustrate the reasons why unfortunately this is unlikely to happen.

Too many differing opinions and infighting !!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

----------


## Nick-D

Am I missing somthing with the no anchoring thing? It's only of the reefs, the big boys all anchor on the sand.

It's fucking stupid either way as it means you can't even dive the area recreational in a safe manner. It is the most exclusive piece of fishery legislation we have seen in this country yet.

----------


## Russian 22.

I'm just annoyed that of all the things they could have done they haven't just adopted LegaSea's new system. Quota system is not fit for purpose so long as corporations are allowed to rape and pillage a public resource while "owning quota" of said public resource. 

Let alone the coddling they get when they fuck around and find out. Only for them to get their boats returned, small fines and no jail time.

----------


## veitnamcam

Inshore fishing is in trouble in the morning....alarm set  03.45...up, coffee, shit, wetsuit on and out the door to test my new drag net.


The fuckers will try and stop us doing anything fun or productive but I am just going to keep on doing what I can while I can and make the most of what we have left.

----------


## stingray

Down the west coast , got a look at few epic dragging beaches ...put the idea out amongst locals ...bringing the 40 meter next time we visit.

----------


## Rushy

> Inshore fishing is in trouble in the morning....alarm set  03.45...up, coffee, shit, wetsuit on and out the door to test my new drag net.
> 
> 
> The fuckers will try and stop us doing anything fun or productive but I am just going to keep on doing what I can while I can and make the most of what we have left.


Make sure you wear your hat that flashes that pink neon “FUCK OFF” whenever council twats come close by.

----------

