# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  100 Dairy cows Pb poisioned at Southland clay club

## Chupacabra

Cows die after grazing on gun club land | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News

Just thought you guys might be interested in this story.

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## BRADS

Sound like bullshit IMO,
More likely nitrate poisoning and an unobservant cow cocky.

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Sound like bullshit IMO, More likely nitrate poisoning and an unobservant cow cocky.


The report is very clear from "The Ministry of Primary Industries confirmed this week it was alerted by a Southland veterinary practice on July 23 of dairy cattle dying from lead poisoning on a Southland farm. The cattle had been grazing fodder beet grown on leased land owned by the Nightcaps Clay Target Club at Wreys Bush."


to ""Fonterra has undertaken blood testing of the animals as well as soil and milk testing to provide both the farmer and our cooperative with further reassurance that the risk is managed."

and finaly,  "Environment Southland confirmed the lead had become embedded in the fodder beet which was ingested by the cows.

No bull shit there, at least not in the reporting.

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## BRADS

I did read the report :Have A Nice Day: 
Fonterra are never wrong my bad........

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## Happy

Probably bad choice of crop .Gun Club here been on same site for yonks.  Beefies graze it .. But only as grass so top bites not lower ...

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## Toby

Gun clubs been here for years, dad shot on it when he was my age, no cows are dead there.

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## veitnamcam

None of that gives any indication of what the test results showed if they were actually performed:rolleyes:

I smell a rat.

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## Dundee

Might of been a fucked up clay shoot :Wtfsmilie:  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Dundee

Two paragraphs in that report contradict themselves.   Firstly they weren't in milk. Then farmer decided to kill the remaining stock.

quotes:
"Approximately 20 affected cattle, from a mob of about 100 cows, died or were euthanised at that time, the farmer subsequently chose to humanely slaughter the remaining cattle. Some of the cattle were pregnant," MPI said in a statement issued to the Fiordland Advocate.''

(so the rest were killed?)

quote
"Cattle were removed from the affected paddocks to safe grazing and have been monitored through tests on blood and milk to confirm milk from the cows was safe."

(How can the rest be moved if the first paragraph says the remaining stock were destroyed?)

(And the above paragraph says they were testing milk)

quote
"Fonterra's general manager of milk supply, technical and assurance, Dianne Schumacher, said the herd was not milking at the time of the exposure and there was no food safety risk."

(You can't test milk if the cows aren't milking)


Something is wrong with that report......................... Oh wait, its the media :Wtfsmilie:

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## BRADS

> Two paragraphs in that report contradict themselves.   Firstly they weren't in milk. Then farmer decided to kill the remaining stock.
> 
> quotes:
> "Approximately 20 affected cattle, from a mob of about 100 cows, died or were euthanised at that time, the farmer subsequently chose to humanely slaughter the remaining cattle. Some of the cattle were pregnant," MPI said in a statement issued to the Fiordland Advocate.''
> 
> (so the rest were killed?)
> 
> quote
> "Cattle were removed from the affected paddocks to safe grazing and have been monitored through tests on blood and milk to confirm milk from the cows was safe."
> ...


Come on bro don't blame the media they have two deal with the dairy farmer :Have A Nice Day:

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## veitnamcam

:Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 

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## 308

Radio said that they had grazed Swedes previously but that the beets somehow concentrated the lead from the ground and that it was the first time that they had been fed beets

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## Dundee

> Come on bro don't blame the media they have two deal with the dairy farmer


yeah the poor bastard :Zomg:

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## Kiwi Sapper

> I did read the report
> Fonterra are never wrong my bad........


Perhaps but have you overlooked and not given an opinion upon....

......."The Ministry of Primary Industries confirmed this week it was alerted by a Southland veterinary practice on July 23 of dairy cattle dying from lead poisoning on a Southland farm."

and  ...."The cattle had been grazing fodder beet grown on leased land owned by the Nightcaps Clay Target Club at Wreys Bush."
"
and.....""Environment Southland confirmed the lead had become embedded in the fodder beet. which was ingested by the cows."

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## BRADS

> Perhaps but have you overlooked and not given an opinion upon....
> 
> ......."The Ministry of Primary Industries confirmed this week it was alerted by a Southland veterinary practice on July 23 of dairy cattle dying from lead poisoning on a Southland farm."
> 
> and  ...."The cattle had been grazing fodder beet grown on leased land owned by the Nightcaps Clay Target Club at Wreys Bush."
> "
> and.....""Environment Southland confirmed the lead had become embedded in the fodder beet. which was ingested by the cows."


1 vets are often wrong :Have A Nice Day: 
Particularly in poisoning cases.

2 this time of year nitrate levels are high in crops.

3 as has been pointed out by others nothing adds up.....someone is trying two get there dead cows paid for

4 I think your knob :Have A Nice Day:

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## Dundee

Fuck Brads I just sprayed my screen with beer :Grin:

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## silentscope

i dont understand why he would slaughter the rest of the mob??? all the farmers i know would stay up night and day to try save 1 cow if they could.... sounds like a silly cunt to me.

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## Maca49

> Two paragraphs in that report contradict themselves.   Firstly they weren't in milk. Then farmer decided to kill the remaining stock.
> 
> quotes:
> "Approximately 20 affected cattle, from a mob of about 100 cows, died or were euthanised at that time, the farmer subsequently chose to humanely slaughter the remaining cattle. Some of the cattle were pregnant," MPI said in a statement issued to the Fiordland Advocate.''
> 
> (so the rest were killed?)
> 
> quote
> "Cattle were removed from the affected paddocks to safe grazing and have been monitored through tests on blood and milk to confirm milk from the cows was safe."
> ...


That Schumacher a fast bitch!

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## Gibo

#4 is gold!!!!  :Thumbsup:

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## Friwi

You don't get lead poison overnight. It would take a little while to accumulate in the system of the cows I guess.

 Doesn't  lead sink? Just make sure you don't pour the milk bottle upside down in your cup of tee trying to get the last few drops and you should be fine  :Grin:

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## 257weatherby

> 1 vets are often wrong
> Particularly in poisoning cases.
> 
> 2 this time of year nitrate levels are high in crops.
> 
> 3 as has been pointed out by others nothing adds up.....someone is trying two get there dead cows paid for
> 
> 4 I think your knob


 :36 1 7:  you are thinking about his knob?!!!!!

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## Dundee

I do a shit load of shooting here and before I became the Boss the old man use to make me pick up the wads from the shotgun as he thought the cows might choke on the plastic and the shells that were left lying around the place. :Wtfsmilie: 

Damned if he could get me to pick up the lead or steel that was fired. :Have A Nice Day:  

The only cows that die from lead poisoning here,only died because someone squeezed a trigger :Ka Boom:

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## Brian

I heard of the same thing happening a few years ago the shot was caught in maize behind a gun club. Cows died but it wasn't quick.
 Think it was in the Manawatu

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## Josh

There are a vast number of variables which would affect lead uptake into crops. It's quite plausible that conditions were right in this paddock.

The bottom line is, it is ridiculous to compare what happened here to the paddocks that you shoot on which subsequently don't kill cows. Lead uptake was tested by:

a) a local vet (may have had vested interest, but unlikely)
b) Fonterra - they have absolutely no reason to falsify positive pb results in the blood of stock, and
c) Environment Southland, who also have absolutely no reason to falsify results.

d) I think the true knobs are people who insult others because they follow evidence-based reasoning rather than anecdotal "BUT ANIMALS DIDN'T DIE ON MY GUN CLUB'S LAND" reasoning. One test can be flawed. Two tests, unlikely, but possible. Three independent tests from separate organisations all confirming lb poisoning? Denying that is just silly. Incidentally, the blood test for lead is very basic, common, and accurate.

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## Josh

Ok, so maybe Environment Southland alone may have been suspicious - I guess they probably don't like lead entering the environment. But yeah, suggesting three independent groups all collaborated on this big conspiracy to pretend cattle died from lead poisoning? That's well and truly into the realm of tinfoil-hat crazy talk.

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## dogmatix

The end result is likely to be tougher resource consent restrictions for ranges (harder for any new ones being built ie new Ardmore Range, shotgun or not) and more restrictions in Council district plans on them too.
All towards to the goal of banning lead completely in firearm projectiles Commiefornia style.

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## Kiwi Sapper

> The end result is likely to be tougher resource consent restrictions for ranges.................
> All towards to the goal of banning lead completely in firearm projectiles Commiefornia style.


Didn't take long for one group to leap on the bandwagon.      "An animal rights group wants lead hunting ammunition to be fully banned after 20 cows developed lead poisoning at a Southland farm....."

Some loony claims in the article from this group, such as , "...."We know that in New Zealand thousands of duck shooters still use shotguns that take lead shot and we know that every time they fire on cartridge about 200 lead pellets will end up in our environment...."


LINK HERE.......*Call for lead hunting ban after cow deaths | Radio New Zealand News*

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## Chupacabra

> Didn't take long for one group to leap on the bandwagon.      "We know that in New Zealand thousands of duck shooters still use shotguns that take lead shot and we know that every time they fire on cartridge about 200 lead pellets will end up in our environment...."



I really gots to get meself one of those shotguns that can't fire lead. . :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:  

The Greenies say recycling is good for the environment.

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## tirantious

hahaha was talking to a mate farming down the road from this poor bugger. only 20 cows died he didnt shoot the others just moved them of the crop. medias full of it as usual.

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## Drahthaar

> I heard of the same thing happening a few years ago the shot was caught in maize behind a gun club. Cows died but it wasn't quick.
>  Think it was in the Manawatu


Yep Kopane. I think it was a maize crop , similar deal the shot accumulated in the standing plant.

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## Dundee

This forum is better than the media at least we get some facts,way to go tirantious :Thumbsup:

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## tirantious

its all good haha i normally just prowl the boards reading but i hate when the media blows things outa proportion haha.

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## Kscott

> 4 I think your knob


You ARE = you're  :Grin: 

What you've posted has an indication of homo-erotic thinking there old chap !

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## Spook

> You ARE = you're 
> 
> What you've posted has an indication of homo-erotic thinking there old chap !


I think you a knob to. Trade me message boards is the place for you. They love that shit over there. If I needed or wanted lessons in or on English I would have paid more attention when at school.

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## Dynastar27

> Fuck Brads I just sprayed my screen with beer


could have sprayed it with something else glad you said beer  :Thumbsup:

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## 308

To be fair to the media I heard it on National Radio and they had most of it straight - 20ish cows dead, first time on beets but had previously grazed the same area ok with different crop, etc

Good to hear from a local and get the confirmation tho

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## Savage1

I always go with the ABCs with everything I do, including reading the news.

Assume nothing
Believe nobody
Corroborate everything

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## EeeBees

They probably died of diabetes and constipation...all that sugar and fibre!! :Have A Nice Day:      Sensationalistic journalism...

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## Spanners

Maybe they were shot... And no bullets or cases found.
Perhaps this story is closer to the truth and they did die of lead poisoning.... Just delivered in a different way...
Or 1080...
Or aliens...
Or (hopefully) Zombies!!!!

(Tinfoil hat is now on)

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## tirantious

they did die off lead poisoning but they're thinking its more to do with shot being in the bulb and them eating some of it in dirt too.

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## Toby

Must have to eat a fair bit of pellets to get enough to die?

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## Spook

> Must have to eat a fair bit of pellets to get enough to die?


It takes very little lead to kill a cow. I have known of the death of calves being blamed on them licking the battery terminals of an old battery left behind the shed. I killed several calves by shooting a shotgun at the sparrows hanging around the meal feeders...expensive lesson that was.

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## 308

Thanks for that Spook - I never knew how intolerant of lead cows are

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## BRADS

Some guy a while back lost a whole lot of bulls, it turned out a battery had gone through a silage chopper and into the pit.....

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## Dundee

I just gave on lead poisoning. Bringing three cows home 500metres to go and the bitch charged and headed back two run off.So we walked the other two back down to bring her back and same bloody thing happened. I bullet fixed her. :Yuush:

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## Dead is better

I reckon it was the annual shoot day for the Blind Society - and the farmer forgot to remove his cows from the paddock.

Lead poisoning... Yeah I 'spose thats one way o looking at it

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## tirantious

hahah we've had a few cows come down with a case of high velocity lead poisoning so far this season. although admitidly most of them couldnt stand let alone run away poor old buggers. :36 1 7:

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## 303Guy

I'm afraid lead poisoning in cattle is real (sheep and dogs too).




> Pathogenesis
> Absorbed lead enters the blood and soft tissues and eventually redistributes to the bone. The degree of absorption and retention is influenced by dietary factors such as calcium or iron levels. *In ruminants, particulate lead lodged in the reticulum slowly dissolves and releases significant quantities of lead.* Lead has a profound effect on sulfhydryl-containing enzymes, the thiol content of erythrocytes, antioxidant defenses, and tissues rich in mitochondria, which is reflected in the clinical syndrome. In addition to the cerebellar haemorrhage and oedema associated with capillary damage, lead is also irritating, immunosuppressive, gametotoxic, teratogenic, nephrotoxic, and toxic to the hematopoietic system.





> In cattle, surgery to remove particulate lead material from the reticulum after the ingestion of batteries is rarely successful.


  See the full article at; Overview of Lead Poisoning: Lead Poisoning: Merck Veterinary Manual 

Suspiciously, I found a heap of spelling errors in the article!?  Maybe vets just can't spell or don't know about spell checkers. :Wink:

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## GravelBen

> Suspiciously, I found a heap of spelling errors in the article!?  Maybe vets just can't spell or don't know about spell checkers.


Wouldn't be surprised, have you ever read anything written by an engineer? Or seen the average doctor's handwriting?  :Wtfsmilie:

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## Uplandstalker

Is this related to the sweeds that kill the cattle in Southland?

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Is this related to the sweeds that kill the cattle in Southland?


The vet report is not, but this thread started out as about it, well the lead within the swedes anyway :>)

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## Looseunit

Cow deaths linked to swedes | Stuff.co.nz  , it does seem odd that other cows are dying on swedes that dont get shot over .

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Cow deaths linked to swedes | Stuff.co.nz  , it does seem odd that other cows are dying on swedes that dont get shot over .



I can but concur with you about the odd coincidence.  One farm has lost at least 20 after coming off the swedes and at least two farms have called meetings with the suppliers who claim acidosis from not transitioning. Further the vets have confirmed liver and kidney failure in the cows. The suspicion is that it is related to the h2 type of swede and also urea was applied. If excess urea is used the plant grows more leaf than bulb with a greater risk of nitrate poisoning.

Confusing, I agree and I sadly, suspect it will only "muddy the waters" yet again, despite the investigations carried out to date.

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## Dundee

Some one on here mentioned nitrate poisoning before kiwi sapper,I'm not diving back thru the pages cause I got moos to check  "While the rugby is on" :Have A Nice Day:

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## BRADS

> Some one on here mentioned nitrate poisoning before kiwi sapper,I'm not diving back thru the pages cause I got moos to check  "While the rugby is on"


I think you'll find it was the second post in the thread :Have A Nice Day: 
And kiwisapper is still a dick

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## madjon_

> I think you'll find it was the second post in the thread
> And kiwisapper is still a dick


Early grazing of immature Fodder beet can lead to nitrate poisoning also a potential
issue for brassica crops. Fodder beet can produce a high proportion of its total dry
matter yield from its tops. Excessive grazing of these tops can lead to scouring caused
by the tops containing low levels of “Oxalates”. The use of calcium is recommended
when grazing Fodder beet. Many of the stock health issues are more of an issue when
your first start grazing you Fodder beet so care during this period is critical.

(from SPECIALTY SEEDS web page)

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## 303Guy

It sounds like the lead ingestion is coincidental.  But what I read on the 'net indicates that cattle can and do die from ingesting lead.  We humans can swallow the same lead and nothing happens.  To get lead in our system we need to swallow lead salts and oxides or breath in the lead oxide and salt dust.  Ask me how I know!  Cattle and dogs have a different digestive system to us (dogs can digest bones - we can't even swallow bones).  And for some strange reason cattle eat car batteries!  Why on earth would they do that?

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## Chupacabra

> And for some strange reason cattle eat car batteries!  Why on earth would they do that?



They're not getting enough electrolytes from the sugarbeets perhaps  :Grin: .

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## JoshC

Speaking to a guy who lives a couple of farms away last Friday. Only 10 cows died with a direct link to lead poisoning. Rumours of "insurance" are running rife through the rural grapevine. 


The swede deaths are a different evil altogether. It appears to be happening on farms where cockies are grazing cattle on swedes that are well past their prime, something about the leaf has gone to seed, and the chemicals/toxins in the leaf have been translocated into the bulbs. 

There's also situations where farmers have been left with significant amounts of winter crop left, so instead of wasting it, have bought some beef cattle from the local sales (typically animals off properties where they've been on baleage/hay/grass) and thrown them straight on the old winter feed to chew it out without "breaking" the cattle in properly. This is making cattle crook, and some are dying. 

Cockies grazing fodder beet/sugar beet are not having the same issues.

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## kotuku

bloody funny that josh -Ive just come on to ask you if there was any link between the two events .call it my professional paranoia ,but i found it intriguing that two major incidents could occur in the same region in such a short time ,both involving livestock grazing?contaminated areas. thanks for your excellent reporting and clarification.
must admit im a swede lover,but yes they nedd some polar chills up em to make em tasty!

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## JoshC

> bloody funny that josh -Ive just come on to ask you if there was any link between the two events .call it my professional paranoia ,but i found it intriguing that two major incidents could occur in the same region in such a short time ,both involving livestock grazing?contaminated areas. thanks for your excellent reporting and clarification.
> must admit im a swede lover,but yes they nedd some polar chills up em to make em tasty!


Yep sweetest after a couple of frosts. I love them fresh out of the dirt, wiped off with Swannie sleeve, and sliced with a rusty blood stained bale string cutting butchers knife. Haha

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## Spook

> Yep sweetest after a couple of frosts. I love them fresh out of the dirt, wiped off with Swannie sleeve, and sliced with a rusty blood stained bale string cutting butchers knife. Haha


If you are staining your knife with blood while cutting the twine on hay bales, I would suggest you be more careful...you southislanders are something else again with your culinary delights...eating cattle food...what next?.

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## Chupacabra

> If you are staining your knife with blood while cutting the twine on hay bales, I would suggest you be more careful...you southislanders are something else again with your culinary delights...eating cattle food...what next?.



So what you're trying to say Spook is the fundamental difference between Nth and Sth Islanders is...

When NIs eat alfalfa and fart they just blow coffee coloured milk everywhere. 

However us southerners on brassicas fart buckshot and hazourdous chemicals  :Grin:

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## Spook

> So what you're trying to say Spook is the fundamental difference between Nth and Sth Islanders is...
> 
> When NIs eat alfalfa and fart they just blow coffee coloured milk everywhere. 
> 
> However us southerners on brassicas fart buckshot and hazourdous chemicals


I think at the moment the biggest problem the South has is that the newspaper reporters get really fucked up when it comes to stock dying...not long ago it was sheep being shot without leaving cases or projectiles, now it is the difference with metabolic problems and shot pellets. I wonder how many gun clubs the length of the country have ever had a similar problem?, I imagine, very few or the meat and milk industries would not tolerate lead poisoning entering the food chain.

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## tararua

Devils advocate here, can we rule out a genetically engineered frankencrop gone wrong? Does anyone have more info on this commercial variety of swede?

They all seem to have eaten the same strain of swede and have kidney/liver damage. Some research I saw found feeding mice GE food gives them kidney/liver damage amongst other things.

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## tirantious

> Devils advocate here, can we rule out a genetically engineered frankencrop gone wrong? Does anyone have more info on this commercial variety of swede?
> 
> They all seem to have eaten the same strain of swede and have kidney/liver damage. Some research I saw found feeding mice GE food gives them kidney/liver damage amongst other things.


same strain of seed developed by a certain seed supplier. from what i understand the problem is solely with the seed it the first time its been commercially grown and the seed supplier doesn't want a dirty name so is blaming it on the farmers and metabolic issues.

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## tararua

Not going away, more stock affected:
No quick answers to stock death mystery | Stuff.co.nz

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## Dundee

Could this be related to the sheep that were apparently shot and no shell cases found?

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## kiwijames

Maybe DOC dumped 1080 all over them and now their livers are failing especially after being inundated with opossum and trout carcasses plus GM swedes have given them lead poisoning both from the swede and the Black Ops ninjas who leave no trace or exit wound and the local vet is covering up for Don Brash who is a mates with Nick Smith (who we all know owns the US 1080 factory) and used Crusher Colins foibles as a decoy to poison some mice on the coast in the hope of killing all our deer (cause they're disappearing fast mate) and the guys from Fish and Game are laughing all they way to the bank cause now they have exclusive rights to trout fishing across NZ for free (cause who wants to catch a radioactive trout) and are propping up their other mates (probably John Key) who is crashing the dairy industry with melamine milk (via GM swedes of course) to drive down the dollar and get the FX gains (cause he bought a heap of greenbacks from Obama in Hawaii). Oh and its bound to involve some jews somewhere too.

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## Dundee

> Maybe DOC dumped 1080 all over them and now their livers are failing especially after being inundated with opossum and trout carcasses plus GM swedes have given them lead poisoning both from the swede and the Black Ops ninjas who leave no trace or exit wound and the local vet is covering up for Don Brash who is a mates with Nick Smith (who we all know owns the US 1080 factory) and used Crusher Colins foibles as a decoy to poison some mice on the coast in the hope of killing all our deer (cause they're disappearing fast mate) and the guys from Fish and Game are laughing all they way to the bank cause now they have exclusive rights to trout fishing across NZ for free (cause who wants to catch a radioactive trout) and are propping up their other mates (probably John Key) who is crashing the dairy industry with melamine milk (via GM swedes of course) to drive down the dollar and get the FX gains (cause he bought a heap of greenbacks from Obama in Hawaii). Oh and its bound to involve some jews somewhere too.


Shit I knew that home brew kit would turn you into a politician   u banned unless we sample some beer :15 4 128:

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## veitnamcam

> Maybe DOC dumped 1080 all over them and now their livers are failing especially after being inundated with opossum and trout carcasses plus GM swedes have given them lead poisoning both from the swede and the Black Ops ninjas who leave no trace or exit wound and the local vet is covering up for Don Brash who is a mates with Nick Smith (who we all know owns the US 1080 factory) and used Crusher Colins foibles as a decoy to poison some mice on the coast in the hope of killing all our deer (cause they're disappearing fast mate) and the guys from Fish and Game are laughing all they way to the bank cause now they have exclusive rights to trout fishing across NZ for free (cause who wants to catch a radioactive trout) and are propping up their other mates (probably John Key) who is crashing the dairy industry with melamine milk (via GM swedes of course) to drive down the dollar and get the FX gains (cause he bought a heap of greenbacks from Obama in Hawaii). Oh and its bound to involve some jews somewhere too.


Ha ha ha good effort.

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## zatoan

None of that gives any indication of what the test results showed if they were actually performed

I smell a rat.

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## Spook

Article in NZ Farmer Sept 29 2014 by veterinary pathologist Dr Mark Collett explains that it was not a unique case...been around 10-20 years...basically a management of stock problem with brassica crops.

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## keneff

Some time after that there was a "spate" of cattle deaths thought to be caused by grazing on beets  - nothing to do with lead poisoning. Dunno if the actual cause was ever found but several farmers (and their stock) were affected. Bet the media never corrected the "lead poisoning" story.

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