# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Scopes for Long Range Shooting in NZ

## janleroux

Just curious, for those of you that do long range shooting (1000m and beyond) in NZ, what scopes (brand and models) are you happy with. I am also keen to hear whether First Focal Plane should be a big part of the consideration?

I like the Vortex Viper PST Gen II, but is this the bees knees?


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## Kiwi Greg

> Just curious, for those of you that do long range shooting (1000m and beyond) in NZ, what scopes (brand and models) are you happy with. I am also keen to hear whether First Focal Plane should be a big part of the consideration?
> 
> I like the Vortex Viper PST Gen II, but is this the bees knees?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nightforce with SFP 22 or 25 max power, 35 would be nice but $$$$

FFP is only really necessary with PRS/Tactical type shooting competitions

FFP typically have pretty thick reticles on high power & pretty thin on low power which can be a bit of a compromise

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## Nick-D

> Just curious, for those of you that do long range shooting (1000m and beyond) in NZ, what scopes (brand and models) are you happy with. I am also keen to hear whether First Focal Plane should be a big part of the consideration?
> 
> I like the Vortex Viper PST Gen II, but is this the bees knees?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Viper pst II is a good scope. There are plenty better but they all cost more dollars

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## Pommy

Leupold LRP

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Are we talking actual hunting here, or just shooting at stuff?

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## janleroux

> Are we talking actual hunting here, or just shooting at stuff?


Long range just shooting paper and gongs. If used for hunting, then I would probably say 300-400m.


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## Gibo

I would suspect scopes for LR in NZ are no different than anywhere else in the world

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## BRADS

As Greg says Nightforce nothing else comes close 
Get hold of @andyanimal31 if your after one.

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## janleroux

> I would suspect scopes for LR in NZ are no different than anywhere else in the world


Understood. But I guess some brands might be more liked because of local support and reputation over time.

And shooting in the African bushveld, walking through thick sand is the closest you get to climbing mountains. Some optics might be better in foggy wet conditions compared to dry dusty environments.

I am speculating, and hence the question. 


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## Pew-Pew

Have a look at the Delta Tactical range.

I've owned heaps of different scopes over the years including NXS 's, Leupold's, March, Vortex, Sightron etc.

The Delta is excellent value for money and made in Japan with ED glass.

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## Stocky

I have a Sig For sale on here that's a pretty good scope value for money wise its a very functional scope maybe a bit light on zoom but sufficient for most tasks here.

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## janleroux

> I have a Sig For sale on here that's a pretty good scope value for money wise its a very functional scope maybe a bit light on zoom but sufficient for most tasks here.


Thanks Stocky. Ill get back to you - still investigating.
But as a matter if interest, can you please pm me the details of your sig and how much you want for it?


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## Stocky

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ter-ret-50852/

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/whiskey5-3-15x52-mm.html

There you go mate

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## Tim Dicko

Yeah nightforce

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## janleroux

> Yeah nightforce


Which Nightforce - something like a ATACR 5-25×56 F1? Would that be comparing apples with apples?


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## Tim Dicko

> Which Nightforce - something like a ATACR 5-25×56 F1? Would that be comparing apples with apples?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree with greg and brads. i think second focal plane is better for some applications of long range shooting,

this is the way i see it.

Second focal plane pros finer cross hair at high power, cross hair is more usable at low power (first focal plane becomes very fine)

disadvantages, subtentions in the reticle are only true at certain power settings. ( so for giving corrections ect you need to be on the correct scope magnification)

First focal plane. The subtentions on the scope are always true so you can hold for wind and elevation and the subtentions on the reticle are always true, which is super handy for competition shooting ect, and hunting gong shooting and the like. 

first focal plane disadvantages the reticle on high magnification can be a little heavier and on low power can be a little fine. In close quaters hunting it may be hard to see.

Any nightforce is good . NXS is good with the 30mm tube. all the atacr's are sweet. you just need to decide what will work best for you. F1 or second focal plane.

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## Tim Dicko

Nightforce seem to have the least warrenty issues comparing to vortex (the best warrenty you will need)

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## andyanimal31

> Which Nightforce - something like a ATACR 5-25×56 F1? Would that be comparing apples with apples?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The nxs is in between the shv and the atacr  but I wouldn't put the vortex in the same room as nightforce as just wouldn't be comparing apples with apples more like lemons and tammarillos!

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## gimp

I've been using FFP scopes for hunting and misc long range shooting for about 10 years now, and find that the disadvantages of FFP re: reticle thickness are largely imaginary once you use one. I find SFP very odd to use now as it "feels" strange to have the reticle not constant.

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## Tim Dicko

> I've been using FFP scopes for hunting and misc long range shooting for about 10 years now, and find that the disadvantages of FFP re: reticle thickness are largely imaginary once you use one. I find SFP very odd to use now as it "feels" strange to have the reticle not constant.


I have often thought if you are effective with the ffp it is a advantage for time pressure shots using the reticile

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## andyanimal31

> I have often thought if you are effective with the ffp it is a advantage for time pressure shots using the reticile


The other thing to note is if you want to use the ffp scope on low power just turn on the illumination and that makes the reticle easy to see

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## Tim Dicko

> The other thing to note is if you want to use the ffp scope on low power just turn on the illumination and that makes the reticle easy to see
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


good call, what scope are you using for long range deer ect?

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## andyanimal31

> good call, what scope are you using for long range deer ect?


Long range running the 7x35 atacr and then a variety of nf on my other rigs 
Going to get my hands on the new nx8 as soon as they get to our shores as man they look like the gears!

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## Russian 22.

Not sure what your budget is but hamills tauranga is selling some high magnification bushnell scopes half price.

They had some 25x tactical 4500 for around 1000 bucks. 2000 bucks normally

The prices may be wrong as they are no longer on trademe but still an awesome deal

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## Tim Dicko

> Long range running the 7x35 atacr and then a variety of nf on my other rigs 
> Going to get my hands on the new nx8 as soon as they get to our shores as man they look like the gears!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


They definatley look good oright. Awesome to see the nightforce using the huge mag range a. the 7-35 is alot of scope. 7 is high on the low end of the scale.

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## andyanimal31

> They definatley look good oright. Awesome to see the nightforce using the huge mag range a. the 7-35 is alot of scope. 7 is high on the low end of the scale.


The new 4x32x50 ffp is going to be awesome.
Covers most bases and if it doesnt just buy the 2.5x20x50 ffp!

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## res

just to rock the nightforce boat, I have replaced almost all my nightforces with swarovskis. both my gong rifle and tops rifle have X5 5-25's on them and im extreamly happy with them

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## longrange308

No Schmidt and bender?

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## janleroux

> just to rock the nightforce boat, I have replaced almost all my nightforces with swarovskis. both my gong rifle and tops rifle have X5 5-25's on them and im extreamly happy with them


Ive heard that the swarovskis are good, but they also come with a hefty price tag. Unfortunately.


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## janleroux

> Not sure what your budget is but hamills tauranga is selling some high magnification bushnell scopes half price.
> 
> They had some 25x tactical 4500 for around 1000 bucks. 2000 bucks normally
> 
> The prices may be wrong as they are no longer on trademe but still an awesome deal


Any specific models you can recommend?


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## andyanimal31

> just to rock the nightforce boat, I have replaced almost all my nightforces with swarovskis. both my gong rifle and tops rifle have X5 5-25's on them and im extreamly happy with them


May I ask why ?
The only thing I can think of is weight

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## Russian 22.

> Any specific models you can recommend?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not from personal experience sorry. The do have good reviews though.

Best to give them a call

075780995

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## 300winmag

I’ve had a few large NF scopes on my shooters, very happy with them but sold them a couple of years ago when having a clean out. A friend suggested an X5 on my new 300 win mag and am very happy with it.

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## 6x47

> Ive heard that the swarovskis are good, but they also come with a hefty price tag. ..


The price difference has shrunk hugely in the last couple of years. Swaros have come down and the street price of Nightforce went up when Dead Eye had the agency taken off him.

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## MSL

> The price difference has shrunk hugely in the last couple of years. Swaros have come down and the street price of Nightforce went up when Dead Eye had the agency taken off him.


Just like the Schmidt and benders went up in price when dead eye took over nz distribution, haha

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## Kiwi Greg

FWIW IMHO The glass in the Swaro X5 is better than a NF NSX & possibly better, (depending on your eyes & bias) than a later ATACR but the NF is a more reliable & robust scope.

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## BRADS

> FWIW IMHO The glass in the Swaro X5 is better than a NF NSX & possibly better, (depending on your eyes & bias) than a later ATACR but the NF is a more reliable & robust scope.


I think the key there is our own Eye bias as you say Greg 
The glass on my new Nightforce is certainly  way ahead of my X5 ( let's not mention the swaro dial)
It's good to see nightforce have uped there glass game let's be honest it's been average for a few years.

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## janleroux

> I think the key there is our own Eye bias as you say Greg 
> The glass on my new Nightforce is certainly is way ahead of my X5 ( let's not mention the swaro dial)
> It's good to see nightforce have uped there glass game let's be honest it's been average for a few years.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


What model is the new NF if I may ask? Keen to understand which ones are the better ones.


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## andyanimal31

> What model is the new NF if I may ask? Keen to understand which ones are the better ones.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The latest models are called the nx8 line.
As in 8x magnification.
The three models are a 1x8 ,
2.5x20x50 and a 4x32x50.
All first focal plane with ed glass (better)
Lighter than the nsx and come standard with the great tenabrex covers.
They also have a magnification ring and power throw lever as it has gone away from turning the whole ocular assembly.
Ground breaking when put altogether in a smaller lighter package with their three R's
Rugged reliable and repeatable.

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## Flyblown

@janleroux, the first thing you need to decide, and then tell us, is what your budget is.

Good optics cost decent money, _really_ good optics cost twice as much, or more. What you have to decide is whether the upgrade to the really good is worth another grand or two, recognising that in many shooters' eyes, the upgrade is incremental and not always as  significant as the price tag suggests. Some will say yes go expensive, others will say no... no one is "right". It is very much down to how your eyes work, your attachment to certain brands and how comfortable you are spending up big on stuff.

The tip about Bushnell is worth investigating if you are in the middle ground. I use Elite Tactical scopes and hunt / pest control with them a lot and am delighted with their performance for the dollars. Vortex Gen 2 is a shit load better glass than Gen 1. Both work for me in 6-24x50 FFP, bowling goats at 700m and if I had a magnum I'd be happy to take them on further. The mechanicals work, they are reliable, I can see through them, the reticles are great, and I'm not afraid to give them a hard time in bad weather, mud, scrub, etc. 

Because I am a tight bastard I've never been able to stomach a $3000 scope so I buy a $1500 one... and another rifle with the difference! Doh!

A big part of your decision is how much you will use this new scope. If you were going hard out long range shooting every week, full on maximum gangbusters, then I'd say spend the money, get a NightForce, whatever. But if its just an occasional thing, and the scope is going to be waiting patiently in the safe for a few weeks at a time, then I'd caution against spending the big number.

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## Beetroot

This is really going to come down to how much money you have to spend.
For long range you are going to want a lot of elevation adjustment and at least 20x magnification, most tend to prefer FFP reticles but as above that is debatable. 

If you are looking to stay under $2000 NZ then the likes of the PST Gen 2 is a great option, the Athlon Ares BTR/ETR is very popular in the USA and the Ares BTR can be had on a very good sale at the moment. Theres some options from Sig Sauer and Sightron that are worth looking at too.
If you are happy spending more $2000-$3000 you can get a Vortex Razor Gen 2, which is an extremely popular scope world wide and has a great reputation in the USA.
Other options are Leupold Mark 5hd, Burris XTR 2/XTR 3 (which is imminent) along with some options from Bushnell and Nightforce with the NXS and upcoming NX8.
$3000-$8000 will get you a Nightforce ATACR/Beast, Schmidt & Bender PM2 series, Khales K series, March, Tangent Theta and many more.

I suggest you decide on a budget and choice what reticle design you like as well as FFP vs SFP, as this will largely dictate what scope suits you.

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## Beetroot

> The latest models are called the nx8 line.
> As in 8x magnification.
> The three models are a 1x8 ,
> 2.5x20x50 and a 4x32x50.
> All first focal plane with ed glass (better)
> Lighter than the nsx and come standard with the great tenabrex covers.
> They also have a magnification ring and power throw lever as it has gone away from turning the whole ocular assembly.
> Ground breaking when put altogether in a smaller lighter package with their three R's
> Rugged reliable and repeatable.
> ...


I'm really looking forward to seeing on of these in the flesh, part of me doesn't think NF can pull all this off for the MSRP they are posting. 
If they do pull it off, this will be the ultimate Jack of all trades, Master of all!

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## andyanimal31

> I'm really looking forward to seeing on of these in the flesh, part of me doesn't think NF can pull all this off for the MSRP they are posting. 
> If they do pull it off, this will be the ultimate Jack of all trades, Master of all!


I hopefully can get some rrp pricing early next week.
I will endeavour to bring a couple to the toby shoot for those that would like a fondle as will be be buying the 4x32x50 and will be looking hard at the 2.5x20x50!

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## gundoc

Value for money, it is hard to beat the Sightron III (I run a 6-24X mildot SFP).  For sheer clarity (at much greater cost) the Schmidt & Benders are excellent.  FFP has the advantage of all reticule measurements being accurate at all magnifications, SFP has a constant reticule size.  Both are perfectly good once you learn to drive them.  From experience I believe 24x is too powerful and makes finding targets more difficult when time is an issue, but it can give you excellent results if your rifle/ammo/shooter combo is accurate enough.  16x is probably good enough for most long range applications (I now target spot in the 12-16x range and crank up the magnification to shoot).

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## res

> May I ask why ?
> The only thing I can think of is weight
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


to my eye the picture is more clear, it was weight for the tops rifle and when I recently built a gong rifle I wanted the same scope on it. They dont inspire the same grunt proof robustness that a night force has though. Unfortunitly every scope is a compramise in some way

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## Tim Dicko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPKu66HBark have a look at this ifyour wondering ffp vs sfp. panhandle precision is an awesome channel.

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## tikka

Im a Nightforce fan since 2001, i like the solid build of them and used them out to 1200m. Had first round hits out to 800m the other day on steel and goats. I prefer first focal plan scopes now because I hold for wind and can use the reticle at any magnification. 
If I had the money a Schmidt Bender PM2 ultrashort 3-20x50 

Everyone has different requirements, mine are in this order.

Robust construction 
Reliable solid click turrets
Zero stop
Illuminated reticle 
FFP
quality glass ( ATACR glass is nice but not the best )
Weight

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## janleroux

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPKu66HBark have a look at this ifyour wondering ffp vs sfp. panhandle precision is an awesome channel.


Thanks @Tim. Very good info.


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## janleroux

> @janleroux, the first thing you need to decide, and then tell us, is what your budget is.
> 
> Good optics cost decent money, _really_ good optics cost twice as much, or more. What you have to decide is whether the upgrade to the really good is worth another grand or two, recognising that in many shooters' eyes, the upgrade is incremental and not always as  significant as the price tag suggests. Some will say yes go expensive, others will say no... no one is "right". It is very much down to how your eyes work, your attachment to certain brands and how comfortable you are spending up big on stuff.
> 
> The tip about Bushnell is worth investigating if you are in the middle ground. I use Elite Tactical scopes and hunt / pest control with them a lot and am delighted with their performance for the dollars. Vortex Gen 2 is a shit load better glass than Gen 1. Both work for me in 6-24x50 FFP, bowling goats at 700m and if I had a magnum I'd be happy to take them on further. The mechanicals work, they are reliable, I can see through them, the reticles are great, and I'm not afraid to give them a hard time in bad weather, mud, scrub, etc. 
> 
> Because I am a tight bastard I've never been able to stomach a $3000 scope so I buy a $1500 one... and another rifle with the difference! Doh!
> 
> A big part of your decision is how much you will use this new scope. If you were going hard out long range shooting every week, full on maximum gangbusters, then I'd say spend the money, get a NightForce, whatever. But if its just an occasional thing, and the scope is going to be waiting patiently in the safe for a few weeks at a time, then I'd caution against spending the big number.


So as I mentioned in my original post, I like the  Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50, but I do not want to get stuck on a specific brand just because they have nice YouTube videos. I am looking for something that is readily available in NZ and have local support - tried and tested gear by real people, not marketing teams. Ive got everything ready to go, scope is the very last bit missing - but I have been building this rifle since January. I am over waiting for stuff coming in from overseas, but I do not want to buy something that will not last just because I am impatient.

Budget $1500ish. (I am Dutch - short arms, deep pockets - bank manager is the same).
MIL not MOA (nothing against MOA, but my head works in metric units)
Shooting: Paper up to 1000m. Gongs as far as I can go with a 6.5CM - I am the limitation, the scope should not be.
Hunting: Not my main thing, but occasionally. Shorter to medium ranges until I know I can do an ethical kill at a longer range. 
FFP or SFP: FFP my preference, but I will in any case develop my own drop charts, so with the SFP I will rely on the drop charts a bit more in the beginning until Ive got the important settings memorised. So not the main thing for me.

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## janleroux

Just want to say thanks to everyone on this forum for your feedback and advise. It helps a lot to figure out what else to look at.


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## Flyblown

Jan, the Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 will be perfect for what you want to do, at your price point. Good scopes, reliable, fantastic warranty.

Just make sure that you buy it from an authorised Vortex dealer and register it with the wholesaler who is Extravision (Australia)  and do hang on to all purchase paperwork.  There is a great deal of misinformation even coming from Vortex website regarding "worldwide" warranty and no need to keep your purchase receipt...  that is bollocks.  

If you run into a problem, the purchase receipt from an authorised Aus / NZ dealer makes a claim a great deal easier.  I met the Extravision guys from having attended a couple of sponsored shoots with them, they are a good bunch and will standby their product but they are very wary of secondhand goods bought in other markets, e.g. the guy who holidays in US, brings one home and sells it.  This was a big part of the talk that they gave us. Those personally imported scopes are not covered by Aus / NZ warranty, the will send it to the US and it is anyone's guess what happens after that. I spoke to Extravision again about this on behalf of someone just recently.

Also look at the Bushnell Elite Tactical. Some very good deals on these at the moment. Talk direct to the importer / wholesaler: Ampro Sales. See what they might have kicking around.  Very helpful guys and have supported me extremely well. The same rules apply regarding warranty. Don't be fooled by the headline claims on US websites, read the small print about which markets they apply to.

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## janleroux

> Jan, the Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 will be perfect for what you want to do, at your price point. Good scopes, reliable, fantastic warranty.
> 
> Just make sure that you buy it from an authorised Vortex dealer and register it with the wholesaler who is Extravision (Australia)  and do hang on to all purchase paperwork.  There is a great deal of misinformation even coming from Vortex website regarding "worldwide" warranty and no need to keep your purchase receipt...  that is bollocks.  
> 
> If you run into a problem, the purchase receipt from an authorised Aus / NZ dealer makes a claim a great deal easier.  I met the Extravision guys from having attended a couple of sponsored shoots with them, they are a good bunch and will standby their product but they are very wary of secondhand goods bought in other markets, e.g. the guy who holidays in US, brings one home and sells it.  This was a big part of the talk that they gave us. Those personally imported scopes are not covered by Aus / NZ warranty, the will send it to the US and it is anyone's guess what happens after that. I spoke to Extravision again about this on behalf of someone just recently.
> 
> Also look at the Bushnell Elite Tactical. Some very good deals on these at the moment. Talk direct to the importer / wholesaler: Ampro Sales. See what they might have kicking around.  Very helpful guys and have supported me extremely well. The same rules apply regarding warranty. Don't be fooled by the headline claims on US websites, read the small print about which markets they apply to.


Thanks @Flyblown, appreciate it.

Do you have experience with buying scopes from Extravision in Aus and bringing into NZ? I travel regularly to Melbourne so I could buy one there and pay the import duties when I travel back. Saves in shipping. Do you have a specific contact there that you can share with me?

Will definitely also give the Bushnell a proper look over and make contact with Ampro.


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## andyanimal31

Knowing what I know bushnell over vortex any day.
Todd hodnett choice is nightforce for high end and bushnell medium price range 
I would not touch vortex under any circumstance as they have a fantastic warranty for a reason.


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## Flyblown

You can't buy direct from Extravision, Jan, they will just point you to a retailer. And do your maths before you import one eh, might not be as attractive as you think.
 @andyanimal31, its tough for a buyer looking for reviews, here am I with a faultless hunting experience of several Vortex Vipers since 2011, here and in Aus, the only one I've seen with a problem which I inspected before potentially buying secondhand had very obviously been dropped. I'm not doubting your word mate at all - please understand that - but I think maybe you should share specifics of why you say that about Vortex. 

I think the best anyone can do is look as the major online retailers and read through all the reviews, preferably models the same or similar with hundreds of reviews. BHP Photo, OpticPlanet etc. Internet forums are notoriously difficult to form an objective opinion from due to the inherent bias that we all have, for whatever reasons. Like my bias towards Toyotas and utter disbelief that anyone could ever buy a Land Rover!

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## spada

FWIW I have used a Vortex PST 6-24 gen 1 FFP MRAD for 5 years and had no issues with it except I felt it was a bit not quite focused at 24X no matter what I did with focus adjustment. 
I've recently upgraded to the 5-25 Gen2 MRAD FFP and IMHO it is definitely worth the $. 
glass clarity significantly better 
wider field of view 
10 mil per rev turret adjustment
and really like the clear gap at the cross hairs intersection
I shot at 300 500 and 600 yds last weekend and that gap bracketed the bull ring perfectly
I managed .75moa group at 600 yds and was wrapped with that for my first 600yds shots with 6.5CM and new scope. 
During the 600 shoot the sun was low enough to beam in between cap peak and scope couldn't keep offside eye open due glare.
Vision through scope with sunshade on was perfect no glare/flare at all. 
Got home and during clean up noticed I had shot at 15X. With my eyes I usually need as much magnification as I can get. 
Super happy with the GEN 2  :Thumbsup:

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## Beetroot

I've recently bought a PST Gen 2 5-25x50 and I'm extremely impressed, it's a huge improvement over the Gen 1 PST.
The glass is excellent for the price point and it has a very generous eyebox as well as huge FOV.
I like the reticle and it seems to dial perfectly from the testing and shooting I've done.

As others have pointed out unless you get a cracking deal overseas you often don't save much at all.
Also only a hand full of places with ship "Tactical" scope internationally.

 @Double Shot

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## Nick-D

Yup ive owned three different vortex scopes and a set of binos, all have been reliable, well finished, hard used and never had an issue.

Every scope maker makes the odd lemon. My  vx5 hd has a furry reticle. I will get it fixed at some point

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## Pew-Pew

On a $1500 budget I would look at the S3 Sightron range

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## janleroux

> On a $1500 budget I would look at the S3 Sightron range


Yeah, they are actually quite high on my list. The SIII 6-24X50 LRFFP/MH looks like good value. Would have been nice if it had a zero stop though. Ive read Nathans books (Terminal Ballistics Research) and he had a lot of good things to say about it.


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## Clint Ruin

The new bushnell forges have been selling well.

moa or mil and sfp or ffp so cover the bases .

Haven't shot with one but customers with them are reporting that they dial well

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## janleroux

> The new bushnell forges have been selling well.
> 
> moa or mil and sfp or ffp so cover the bases .
> 
> Haven't shot with one but customers with them are reporting that they dial well


Agree Clint,

The Forge 4.5-27x50 FFP looks good. Ive got a mate that hunts with a Bushnell and he recons for the abuse he puts it through it is a very robust scope.


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## Tim Dicko

Me mate marcus always says cry once. spend the big dollars and get a nightforce. i would go sightron s3 any day over a bushnell or vortex. the s3 is coming out with a zero stop now.

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## cameronjackwhite

Agree with most re nightforce. I've just changed out 2 leupold vx5s to go nightforce and am more than happy with that decision. I started out with a bushnell elite 6500 and once you hit high magnification the price difference well and truly showed. sightron is a good compromise depending on how often you shoot. I personally dont shoot nearly enough and still want more than I can afford on all my shooters... as stated buy once cry once

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## ChrisW

I would consider the Burris XTR2. Non illuminated if you want to save some money. While the XTR3 is on the way its not replacing the XTR2. The XTR3 is a higher-end offering and will be substantially more expensive. The XTR2 isnt going anywhere.
I have quite a bit of experience with these on a .338lm, and they are really solid and track well. Forever warranty that is properly supported in NZ, but you wont need it.

For high-end scopes in no particular order I would consider -
S&B PMII
Nightforce ATACR / Beast
Steiner Military M5xi

The new Steiner T5xi is also worth an honorable mention. It's price point is above the XTR2 but below those mentioned above. They are reeaaalllyyy nice scopes for the money. Solid, clear, nice tactile clicks, German glass, made in the USA, awesome turrets which you cant get lost with, excellent warranty and backup support in NZ. They also have a couple nice extras included like a throw lever you can attach to the magnification ring and Tenebraex lens covers as standard.

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## janleroux

> I would consider the Burris XTR2. Non illuminated if you want to save some money. While the XTR3 is on the way its not replacing the XTR2. The XTR3 is a higher-end offering and will be substantially more expensive. The XTR2 isnt going anywhere.
> I have quite a bit of experience with these on a .338lm, and they are really solid and track well. Forever warranty that is properly supported in NZ, but you wont need it.
> 
> For high-end scopes in no particular order I would consider -
> S&B PMII
> Nightforce ATACR / Beast
> Steiner Military M5xi
> 
> The new Steiner T5xi is also worth an honorable mention. It's price point is above the XTR2 but below those mentioned above. They are reeaaalllyyy nice scopes for the money. Solid, clear, nice tactile clicks, German glass, made in the USA, awesome turrets which you cant get lost with, excellent warranty and backup support in NZ. They also have a couple nice extras included like a throw lever you can attach to the magnification ring and Tenebraex lens covers as standard.


Thanks Chris,

Will look into these as well.


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## McNotty

> Me mate marcus always says cry once. spend the big dollars and get a nightforce. i would go sightron s3 any day over a bushnell or vortex. the s3 is coming out with a zero stop now.


 @Tim Dicko would that be Mr Marcus C the up and coming gunsmith  :Wink:  that fancy lathe of his is very nice!!

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## Tim Dicko

> @Tim Dicko would that be Mr Marcus C the up and coming gunsmith  that fancy lathe of his is very nice!!


it is, hes a good mate. very clever dude.

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## ChrisF

I would look at a Bushy 4.5-18x44mm LRTS , they are FFP , have mil/mil , and the elevation is a big Low profile knob , with 10 mils in one rev , maybe 2k nzd new , I have run the lower mag version , 3-12x44mm for a few years on my 22 hornet , and its adjustments are very good & so is the glass and build quality , its nothing like the cheaper bushys , its more like a Nightforce with nicer looking KNOBs .

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## Pongo12

Cant beat the nf for reliability and strength but that's why they are weighty. I've had nf ,s&b, Swarovski x5 and z range, leupold, March, bushnell , zeiss v8 etc etc the only two brands that have held up and not let me down is the s&b and nightforce. 
They are tough as. I'd never go back to swaro x5 as 2 of them broke down and 3 zeiss v8s broke down. Maybe I'm just a rough c#!t
I've got a leupold again now to cut weight down and that is the only reason otherwise I'd have a nightforce for sure ya just cant beat them

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## andyanimal31

> Cant beat the nf for reliability and strength but that's why they are weighty. I've had nf ,s&b, Swarovski x5 and z range, leupold, March, bushnell , zeiss v8 etc etc the only two brands that have held up and not let me down is the s&b and nightforce. 
> They are tough as. I'd never go back to swaro x5 as 2 of them broke down and 3 zeiss v8s broke down. Maybe I'm just a rough c#!t
> I've got a leupold again now to cut weight down and that is the only reason otherwise I'd have a nightforce for sure ya just cant beat them


Your a wise man pongo 12!

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## mikee

And here was me thinking of selling my NXS for something else, maybe I wont

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## cameronjackwhite

> And here was me thinking of selling my NXS for something else, maybe I wont


An nx8??

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## mikee

> An nx8??


Mk5

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## greghud

its a pitty you cant come down to a shoot and have a LOOK thru a bunch of scopes before making a descision.
many opinions are formed with little experence. 

in your budget i would consider the Sig Tango 4 6x24x50 available in mil or moa ffp and well under $2k

but truly, if you got to see thru them, you would understand why people are using what they are using, not just internet speculation.
Greg

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## Flyblown

I believe Jan has bought a scope. A Bushnell Elite Tactical.

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## janleroux

> I believe Jan has bought a scope. A Bushnell Elite Tactical.


Yep, I got a Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50 that was on a rifle from another member on the forum (thanks to @Flyblown pointing me in the right direction)

Saturday I spend the day on the range running the barrel in.

Glass is clear. Was easy to zero, and initial testing of dialling it up/down/left/right shows that it is tracking perfectly and as I would expect.

The scope is absolutely gold!

Now I am looking for a second one to put on a .22 ELR project  :Wink: 


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