# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  Baikal single shot rebarrel - Anyone done this?

## SixtyTen

I have a Baikal Izh-18MH in .223 that I never use, and am thinking about re-barreling it using a .458 blank that I bought off our very own barrel maker homebrew.357.

Does anyone have any experience re-barreling these rifles? are the barrels simply threaded into the barrel adaptor? or are they very Russianed in there (ie heat pressed/pinned)? I would like to salvage the 223 barrel if possible, so chopping it and boring out the barrel adaptor isnt on the table.

I know these rifles come in .308 and other high pressure cartridges, is there any difference between the barrel adaptors on a .223 and the larger cartridges? any issue with stout 45/70 loads for example?

Not sure which cartridge I would use, maybe 45/70 but maybe not. The idea is to suppress the rifle and shoot 400 - 500gr subs from it, and 45/70 case capacity can be an issue for that from what I have read. Any suggestions?

I should mention that I have a well equipped machine shop in my garage.

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## Micky Duck

interesting.....there is much easier way to do this... will flick you a PM.

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## akaroa1

@Scout is a Baikal rifle expert

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## Friwi

Usually , if you want to do an accurate job, you need a few gunsmithing tools like a proper chamber reamer and it's pilots and gauges. Indicating rods ...etc. The requirements is a bit more than just " chucking it" in the lathe.

There was a wildcat named the 45 silhouette, which was a 45-70 shortened so that it would have a smaller chamber volume which would be perfect for your application. 
https://www.cartridgecollector.net/45-silhouette

You could also create your own wildcat by using 500 s&w cases and necking them down to 458, with a bit of shoulder.

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## striker

IIRC Gunworks is the team for info,  there is a couple floating around in different calibers

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## Friwi

https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.co...grade-2die-set

It can be done :-)

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## Micky Duck

by same token you can use the std 45/70..... the hornady cases are tiny bit shorter,plenty of slower load data out there.... black powder goes slow too LOL.
ADI load data site has a single action section,pure gold mine for obscure type loadings. interesting bit for me is the trail boss loads have HIGHER pressure than smokeless.....plenty of subsonic options.

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## homebrew.357

That barrel is chambered  for 45-70 I think, should be good to go. I use 3031 powder and load up my Sharps with 40gr and a hollow base bullet.

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## Scout

Well I have a lot of Baikal Single shots & bought two shotgun barrels to do the same as you & 45/70, .50 cal barrels off same maker for that job but not done yet, I don't think the rifle barrels will be threaded into a mono block some how ?

If you want to change out the .223 Rem barrel I don't know why you would want to save it as it isn't like its a very useful barrel for any other job ? 

I was going to rechamber mine to .220 Swift as it has a semi rim & my 7.62X39 to .303 Brit but again moved on.

The 45/70 is a way superior killing subsonic round than any thing smaller & if the 500gr stabilize in your rifle that is better than 400gr, I can only imagine the .50 cal being better again & as I just got one I will find out soon .

I have shot Deer, Donkey, Horses to Buffalo with the subsonic 45/70 with the smack of the bullet the loudest part of the shot .

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## SixtyTen

From a bit of looking around and reading, I think either standard 45/70 or a cut down version like a few here have suggested will be the go, I'm leaning towards cutting the case down. It's interesting that trailboss is not a good choice.

I can handle all the barrel fitting, chambering, headspacing and so forth,
what I'm really interested in is how the barrel attaches on these rifles, if anyone has any photos or links of one of them disassembled I'd appreciate it. 

I will drop gunworks a line and see if they can give me some advise.

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## Micky Duck

did you recieve my PM???

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## timattalon

I looked at this a while back with a Gunsmith. He said instead of replacing the barrel, it is better and less difficult to simply copy it and build the whole piece separately. This way you can then still use the 223 if the need arises.....

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## Scout

> I looked at this a while back with a Gunsmith. He said instead of replacing the barrel, it is better and less difficult to simply copy it and build the whole piece separately. This way you can then still use the 223 if the need arises.....



Id be bloody suspicious of that "Gunsmith" rebarreling a mono block of some type is way easier & just as good as making one from scratch, only down side is not using/having the original barrel, hence why I bought some shotgun barrels .

I have done this before with a H&R when I made a 500NE 3 1/4in, but I had the lug attached on that job, it was very slightly off center from not using the mono block.

I think just use the full 45/70 case & you can go full power later if you want, with a suppressor fitted recoil won't be a great deal .

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## Micky Duck

or you turn outside of 45/70 barrel down to slip straight into .12ga and pop empty shells out with small rod dropped down barrel,Ive also seen it done with insert glued into place and the ejector altered to pop the rim of 45/70...there was one for sale on trademe about a year ago that had this done....I personally like the option to remove insert and still have shotgun...

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## Russian 22.

> or you turn outside of 45/70 barrel down to slip straight into .12ga and pop empty shells out with small rod dropped down barrel,Ive also seen it done with insert glued into place and the ejector altered to pop the rim of 45/70...there was one for sale on trademe about a year ago that had this done....I personally like the option to remove insert and still have shotgun...


That sounds like a muzzle loader from the 1800s with extra steps.

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## Micky Duck

yes but no...you still use ammunition like normal...but for ejection rather than weaken area around rim I left it pretty much intact...drop wee rod (guts of double ended automotive screwdriver) down bore and it hits inside of case and pops empty out......well known trick for shotgun with dodgy extraction....

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## SixtyTen

> did you recieve my PM???


I did, thanks for the info. I will likely be picking your brain some more once I get further along with this project.

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## Micky Duck



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## SixtyTen

So it turns out the barrels are soldered in. I was trying to heat up the barrel shank to break the threads/press fit free and noticed the smell of solder flux and then with a bit more heat, had little balls of solder appearing in the back join. So I kept heating it up and tapping with a wooden mallet and eventually it slid off nice and easy. I had to remove the sling mount (which was also soldered) to get the barrel adapter off.

Its all low temp solder, maybe very low silver solder.

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## Micky Duck

holy smoke,that makes it piece of piss then..... good work.

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## Micky Duck

Rifle - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition

these are good load info...its the bottom tier...the lower pressure loads for trapdoor type rifles...I FIGURE shotgun action must be here somewhere....maybe into the lower end of next tier...you will see if compare the trail boss loads to smokeless,the pressure is LOWER with smokeless...

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## 300CALMAN

> So it turns out the barrels are soldered in. I was trying to heat up the barrel shank to break the threads/press fit free and noticed the smell of solder flux and then with a bit more heat, had little balls of solder appearing in the back join. So I kept heating it up and tapping with a wooden mallet and eventually it slid off nice and easy. I had to remove the sling mount (which was also soldered) to get the barrel adapter off.
> 
> [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]Its all low temp solder, maybe very low silver solder.


Wow! So contour the chamber area of the other barrel, cut the extractor and head space.

A simple but quite clever attachment method.

I have a Baikal under over rifle, wounder if it's done the same way?

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## Micky Duck

30/06   or 45/70 ???? always dreamt of one of them for a bush rifle......

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## SixtyTen

First off, sorry if the images are huge, I am trying to post from my phone and can't work out how to resize them.

I have been working on putting a new barrel on this rifle

Once I had the old barrel out, I started by cleaning up the barrel adaptor. It was full of solder and was pretty rough machining underneath that. I also wanted to make the hole a little bigger so I could keep the barrel a bit larger. I bored it out from 19 to 20mm and cleaned up the other faces.



I then cut the barrel blank to 360mm and got to removing a whole lot of metal. This is slow going on a lathe like mine, with a depth of cut at about 1mm max and each pass taking about 8min, going from 38mm to 20mm took a while.



Once I had the barrel mostly profiled, I turned it around and mounted it in my action truing jig, which I have actually used way more for working on short barrels. I decided to tighten up the headspace a little, as it was a little deep for my liking. I then turned the shoulder thickness down to match the barrel adaptor.




The next job was to cut the slot for the extractor. I was not sure how to do this, as I could not get the barrel into my mill for this job. I considered fixing the barrel to the cross slide of the lathe, with the cutter in the spindle, a technique brilliantly shown by Homebrew.357 in his rolling block thread. Then I realised I could clamp it to the v slot on the side of my little shaper machine. I ground a couple of cutters to cut the slot, and had at it. I left a very small amount of material for hand fitting with a file.






A little more hand fitting and it will be perfect.



Now I have to machine the extractor to match the chamber and rim. I'm thinking of assembling it all temporarily and fixing the extractor in place with a tiny shim behind it, then doing it in the lathe. That way I can dial the chamber in and match each face perfectly. Any other method would involve a lot of guesswork.

Im tossing up whether to put open sights on this rifle, or a low profile red dot. I will likely put a scope on for working up a load, but I want this to be handy and easy to pack down, so the scope will likely not stay.

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## ebf

Awesome work  :Thumbsup:

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## Micky Duck

holy smoke that is great work........ really makes a bloke think.......look forward to seeing how it shoots.... might have to pull finger and sort some decent sights for mine LOL.

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## SixtyTen

I managed to cut the extractor for the rim by supergluing it to the barrel and taking gentle cuts. Came out quite nice I think. It doesn't fling the cases at your face like it did when it was a 223, rather a nice easy extraction.





I have also been working on "de-russia-ing" the stock a bit. I have brought the wood down flush with the action and added some shape to the wrist area.
I then sanded what seemed to be fence paint off and rubbed it down to 220g.
I stained it with a rimu color stain and now am in the process of selling the stock up with Danish oil. This takes a long while.

I'm not going all out with this finish, as I have many other projects on the go and can't sink too many hours into it. Plus I don't want to feel as bad when it inevitably gets dinged and scratched being carted around.






I am thinking about making a leather buttstock wrap that holds 5 or 6 cartridges. I have a bunch of leftover leather and all the gear from my knifemaking days. Has anyone done this themselves or have any design tips? Anyone know a neater way to hold them in place than lacing them on?

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## Micky Duck

45/70 you wont be needing 5-6 cartridges LOL.
get in habit of carrying round loose in left hand when game is being approached...reloading is quite quick that way,quick being relative.you could go all NDN and use brass tacks....but that might look.........wait for it.........tacky BOOM BOOM BOOM LOL

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## RabbitStu

Just fitting a .22lr barrel onto my Baikal 12g a nice simple single shot.

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## GDMP

What I find most annoying about some of the more recent baikal single shots with the wooden stock,is the sharp edges on the sides of the forewood....they were nicely rounded back in the Communist era but now just left as machined and are bloody uncomfortable to hold like that.The last one I reshaped I used Shellac to refinish it with,which seems appropriate being a Russian made firearm and it matched the finish on the buttstock OK as well.....

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## canross

Funny that you're doing this project.... this has been on my mind  :Psmiley: 




> I am thinking about making a leather buttstock wrap that holds 5 or 6 cartridges. I have a bunch of leftover leather and all the gear from my knifemaking days. Has anyone done this themselves or have any design tips? Anyone know a neater way to hold them in place than lacing them on?
> 
> Attachment 169468


In terms of avoiding lacing, if you don't mind making it a tight fit, check if a sewn-to-fit mocked up cartridge holder will slip over the pistol grip on the stock from the front - either entirely over the action or with the stock off. Sling swivel can be used to retain the holder from slipping forwards if it's well reinforced. Hardened/waxed leather will be less prone to relaxing and getting loose over time/repeated wetting, but do test runs first, waxed leather doesn't behave the same way as unwaxed.

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## SixtyTen

> Funny that you're doing this project.... this has been on my mind 
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of avoiding lacing, if you don't mind making it a tight fit, check if a sewn-to-fit mocked up cartridge holder will slip over the pistol grip on the stock from the front - either entirely over the action or with the stock off. Sling swivel can be used to retain the holder from slipping forwards if it's well reinforced. Hardened/waxed leather will be less prone to relaxing and getting loose over time/repeated wetting, but do test runs first, waxed leather doesn't behave the same way as unwaxed.


After a bit of research, I think I will probably just stitch it in place using a baseball stitch. The pistol grip will stop it from sliding over from the front, but good idea, something I hadn't thought of. I will likely be using the sling swivel as an anchor.

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## SixtyTen

I have been working on some other projects, but am now back onto this.

I needed to thread the muzzle before permanently installing it to the barrel adaptor as I would not be able to hold it in the lathe easily afterwards.

First I made a .450 bush for my bore indicating rod. I find this a good reliable way to get a bore dialed in without using horribly expensive long stem indicators. I get the run-out to zero at the muzzle and around 50mm down the bore. This ensures the thread and shoulder are square to the projectile flight path.
I chose 5/8-24 as the thread because I already own a tap that size that I will use for threading the suppressor.





Once the muzzle was threaded, I could start lapping the bore. The reason for lapping after threading is that the bore springs open very slightly when you remove the material to form the thread. You want the smallest part of the bore to be right at the muzzle, hence, lap after threading. This won't matter a damn on a 14" barrel open sight 45-70, but for most other applications requiring accuracy, it is a good thing to remember.

I made myself a nice handle for lapping that I can attach different diameter and length rods to. It is just a couple of bearings in a housing with some handles screwed to the side. Rough, but very effective. I also make a guide from timber whenever I am lapping a bore. This is to control the chamber end of the rod and stop it flexing and contacting the bore. Often, I make these a press fit into the action the barrel is attached to. In this case I made it a press fit into the chamber.

To make the lap, I wrap the rod about 30mm from the tip with a thick waxed thread used for leatherwork until it's a slip fit into the bore. This stops the molten lead running down the barrel. I then hold the barrel vertical in a vice and position the rod so the tip is around 20 - 30mm from the muzzle. I heat up the barrel with a heatgun and melt a little lead, which is poured into the bore once it is up to temperature. Once this cools, I poke the lap most of the way out and file some shallow grooves to hold lapping compound. It is then just a case of adding compound and getting to it.

When the lap starts to get loose, I bump it back to size by sliding a 10mm rod into the bore, running the lap down until it touches it, standing the whole lot on the floor and giving the back of the lapping rod a few smacks with a mallet. This swells the lap up the the size of the bore wherever it is positioned. In this case, I wanted more work to be done near the chamber, so bumped it near there. You can over do the bumping and the lap will be extremely hard to start moving again. A mallet helps it along.

By doing more lapping toward the chamber end of a barrel, you can introduce a very slight taper, with the tightest part being the muzzle. This is extremely important on .22lr barrels and I have noticeably improved the performance of a few .22lr rifles by taper lapping. For this rifle, it won't make a spot of difference, but it's still good practice.

I have some before and after photos from my borescope that I will upload later.





The next step will be to install the barrel permanently to the barrel adaptor. I am considering using epoxy rather than solder for this, as I have zero experience soldering things this large.
After that, I can start work on the sights and then the suppressor.

I am considering making a copy of the ranger point precision rear sight, as it would give me windage and elevation on the rear sight, along with sight protection and it being a relatively simple mechanism. I also think they look cool.

I would be interested to hear about any simpler sights that achieve the same thing.

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## ebf

Very cool project man. 

Are you going to drift the front blade for windage correction ?

The Skinner sights are effectively a lateral dovetail block, held in place by a grub screw. And the peep post is threaded into the block that slides in the dovetail, so you get some elevation in there. But they don't have any real sight protection. Can't say that has been an issue for me.

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## ebf

On a side note, does anyone know if the barrels on Bergara single shots are attached in a similar way ?

I grafted a Skinner sight onto the back part of the Bergara BA-13 rail

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## SixtyTen

> That's really interesting to see done.  Is the lapping something you do after every muzzle threading job?  How much material do you think you end up removing roughly?


Theoretically it should be as the bore does spring open. I don't know how much, but you can feel the difference when sliding a lubricated lead slug in the bore. I don't lap most barrels I work on. This barrel really needed it to smooth out the machining marks. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference on most rifles, or it would be more widely known.

The amount of material removed from most barrels is extremely small.

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## SixtyTen

> On a side note, does anyone know if the barrels on Bergara single shots are attached in a similar way ?
> 
> I grafted a Skinner sight onto the back part of the Bergara BA-13 rail
> 
> Attachment 170786


I like the idea of having a rail there as well.
I am planning to have the front sight adjustable for windage, but was planning to use that as a rough setting and then fine tune it with the rear sight. 

Do you find the half turn for elevation is a fine enough adjustment?
I'm not that set on sight protection, but if I'm making my own sight base, I might as well add it.

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## ebf

> I like the idea of having a rail there as well.
> I am planning to have the front sight adjustable for windage, but was planning to use that as a rough setting and then fine tune it with the rear sight. 
> 
> Do you find the half turn for elevation is a fine enough adjustment?
> I'm not that set on sight protection, but if I'm making my own sight base, I might as well add it.


The skinners use a strange thread, it is all UNEF. The apperture step is 10-40

I get roughly 2 MOA per full turn with that sight radius, so pretty happy with it. I've changed the rings on my scope to Leupy QD ones, so super easy to swop.

I ended up bringing in a bunch of UNEF taps (8-40, 10-40, 12-40 and 12-32) from KBC tools in the US - most expensive taps I own  :Wtfsmilie:

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## Micky Duck

the ramp on top of action of the bakails makes a fair rear sight...just put small notch in it....my 12ga has deep V filed into it....works a treat.

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## PaulNZ

Great description of your lapping setup. I've looked into bore lapping before but never actually done it. Considered it for my problematic grey birch barrel to remove the bore constriction, but preheating the barrel before casting the lap would have been an issue with the carbon fibre wrap.

A couple of questions if you don't mind:

What grit are you lapping to?

I thought cut rifled barrels shouldn't open up when the OD is machined? 

What I've read suggests that you normally lap before cutting the barrel to length, because the lap tends to bell the muzzle end where it exits and reverses. How are you avoiding this?

Really interesting to see this progressing.

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## Micky Duck

shoot lots of cast and it will do itself .......said the maker of them barrels LOL.

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## ebf

> I'm trying to work out why UNEF is strange?  I got my last set from Bay Engineers Supplies, 6, 8, 10 ,12 sizes???


I just struggled to get those sizes locally. Normally get taps from TradeTools or Chevpac.

Will keep Bay Engineers in mind for next time  :Thumbsup:

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## striker

> I just struggled to get those sizes locally. Normally get taps from TradeTools or Chevpac.
> 
> Will keep Bay Engineers in mind for next time


or Bearing and Engineering Supplies is another goody

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## SixtyTen

> Great description of your lapping setup. I've looked into bore lapping before but never actually done it. Considered it for my problematic grey birch barrel to remove the bore constriction, but preheating the barrel before casting the lap would have been an issue with the carbon fibre wrap.
> 
> A couple of questions if you don't mind:
> 
> What grit are you lapping to?
> 
> I thought cut rifled barrels shouldn't open up when the OD is machined? 
> 
> What I've read suggests that you normally lap before cutting the barrel to length, because the lap tends to bell the muzzle end where it exits and reverses. How are you avoiding this?
> ...


I should make it clear im not a lapping expert. I have done a lot of research and reading about the subject, but have lapped less than 10 barrels so far, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

_What grit are you lapping to?
_On a barrel that is not bad, I will lap with 320 and nothing else, If a barrel needs a fair bit of helping, I start with 220, and then just do a finish run with 320. Make sure to clean the barrel well between grits and cast a brand new lap.
I have read in multiple places that you dont want to go much finer than 320 as it actually increases the friction on the surface and can lead to very bad copper (or lead) fouling. I have not verified this myself, and its only been forum chat that suggests this, nothing from any real experts.
I made my own compound by buying silicone carbide powder if various grits from Rotorua lapidary Supplies. I then mixed up a batch for each grit with grease and with oil. I have found that grease is better than oil for barrel lapping. Any new grease will work.

_I thought cut rifled barrels shouldn't open up when the OD is machined?
_I have come across this idea myself. I believe they do open up a little with diameter changes as it can be felt with a slug. I have not checked my factory lapped Krieger (Which I believe are cut rifling) but I have come across it on a couple of other cut barrels that were known to be consistent before profiling/muzzle threading. I didnt lap either of these barrels and they both shot just fine.

Bill Calfees book has some information on the subject and he has documented that any change in the outside diameter of a barrel blank will result in a change in the bore size. This goes for receiver threads, barrel contouring, dovetails for sights and muzzle threading.
His book is appallingly bad and I struggled though it thinking there might be some information on the actual mechanics and tools involved in lapping. There isnt. Most of the book is him telling ego stroking stories that have nothing to do with improving rifles. There are a few tidbits here and there, but the good stuff could be covered in less than 5 pages, and its something like 200 pages long. That said, he is a proven gunsmith that has consistently turned out championship winning rimfire benchrest guns, so he cant be completely full of shit.

*What I've read suggests that you normally lap before cutting the barrel to length, because the lap tends to bell the muzzle end where it exits and reverses. How are you avoiding this?*
I dont extend the lap out the muzzle at all. I butt the muzzle up against something hard to stop the lap from extending out. I only push it out when I need to add more lapping compound. This will stop any bell-mouthing.

_Considered it for my problematic grey birch barrel to remove the bore constriction, but preheating the barrel before casting the lap would have been an issue with the carbon fibre wrap.
_The Pre-heat is probably only 150c. The carbon on your barrel should handle that just fine for a while. If it doesnt, then the manufacturer is using a type of resin that has no business being on a rifle.
You can sometimes get away with a lower temp pre-head, but the lap wont fill out as well. This can be fixed to a degree by a couple of good bumpings, just make sure you have the lap and barrel greased before you bump it, or you might get it stuck (dont ask me how I found this out) 

Hope this helps.

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## Micky Duck

eagerly awaiting progress photos.......... :Thumbsup:

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## SixtyTen

> eagerly awaiting progress photos..........





There you go. 

Recoil pad is installed.
2600g (5.7lbs) at the moment.

Im trying to decide how to finish the barrel. The best would be having the barrel hot blued before installing it into the adaptor. next best would be leaving the adaptor blued and painting the barrel with black duracoat after installation. The simplest would be to just cold blue the barrel, but I have not had good luck with cold blue over the years.

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## Micky Duck

fark you cut her off short!!!!!!!! I see top of your barrel is higher,with rib,so discount my comment re ramp...on SHOTGUN it sticks up proud of barrel so can be notched as rear sight.

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## SixtyTen

It's about 775mm. Barrel is just under 14"

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## PaulNZ

> I should make it clear im not a lapping expert. I have done a lot of research and reading about the subject, but have lapped less than 10 barrels so far, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
> 
> _What grit are you lapping to?
> _On a barrel that is not bad, I will lap with 320 and nothing else, If a barrel needs a fair bit of helping, I start with 220, and then just do a finish run with 320. Make sure to clean the barrel well between grits and cast a brand new lap.
> I have read in multiple places that you dont want to go much finer than 320 as it actually increases the friction on the surface and can lead to very bad copper (or lead) fouling. I have not verified this myself, and its only been forum chat that suggests this, nothing from any real experts.
> I made my own compound by buying silicone carbide powder if various grits from Rotorua lapidary Supplies. I then mixed up a batch for each grit with grease and with oil. I have found that grease is better than oil for barrel lapping. Any new grease will work.
> 
> _I thought cut rifled barrels shouldn't open up when the OD is machined?
> _I have come across this idea myself. I believe they do open up a little with diameter changes as it can be felt with a slug. I have not checked my factory lapped Krieger (Which I believe are cut rifling) but I have come across it on a couple of other cut barrels that were known to be consistent before profiling/muzzle threading. I didnt lap either of these barrels and they both shot just fine.
> ...


That's great info, thanks for taking the time to lay it out. I presume you haven't seen an issue with lengthening the chamber throat during lapping either?

I'll have to give it a try one of these days. The Grey Birch barrel is long gone though - I took the refund while it was on offer. If the pre-heat is only 150C I expect you're right that the carbon wrap would have taken it - then again that particular barrel already had several features that had 'no business being on a rifle.' I have no idea what resin they would have used.

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## Micky Duck

so are you making another 12" one with other half of barrel???? LOL

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## Micky Duck

waiting for range report..............

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## Micky Duck

still waiting........

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## SixtyTen

I found a little time to do some work on this rifle again, so a small update.

I have been working on sorting out the sights before I permanently fix the barrel in place.

I ran through a few different designs for the rear sight and eventually settled on a simple and effective solution, which is to cut a dovetail 90degrees to the current top dovetail and have a removable insert the same is what is seen on a Skinner sight.
This means that I can still mount a scope if I want to by simply releasing the windage locking screw and sliding the whole sight block out one side. elevation change is done by screwing the threaded aperture mount up and down, this is locked by a grub screw. Windage is changed by sliding the block sideways and is also locked with a grub screw. My front sight will be adjustable for windage as well, so I should be able to zero the rear to a scribe line.



Cutting the dovetail in the barrel block was easy enough. I held it in the mill vice and used an indicator to check that the top rail was parallel to the table. I then cut the bulk of the material out with an end mill and cut the dovetail sides with a 60deg cutter.
After that was roughed out, I de-burred and smoothed everything out with a selection of stones.









Once that was finished to size, I started on making the sight mounting block. This is made from an offcut of 416 stainless, as it machines beautifully and I can bead blast it and not have to finish it otherwise.



I need to either make or buy a very fine tap for the sight elevation screw. Im thinking something like M6x0.5 or M5x0.5. TradeTools have an M6x0.5 tap for about $35, which while expensive for a single hole, would be smarter than spending an hour or two making and hardening a tap from carbon steel.

I also found this front sight block soldered to a barrel stub I had in my offcuts box. I need to change the underside radius to match my barrel and make a new sight post, then I can solder it in place once the barrel is installed.



I now have brass, dies, powder, a handful of projectiles and primers for this rifle, but the range test is still a ways off. Lots to do beforehand. So settle down Micky Duck! I will get there.

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## PaulNZ

Some great work going on there. 




> Im thinking something like M6x0.5 or M5x0.5. TradeTools have an M6x0.5 tap for about $35, which while expensive for a single hole, would be smarter than spending an hour or two making and hardening a tap from carbon steel.


If a gun tap would do the job for you (it is a through hole you're talking about if I understand correctly?) I see CarbideNZ have M5x0.5 for $14 and M6x0.5 for $22. Bit cheaper than Tradetools.

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## GDMP

I got a 6mm x 0.5 tap from trade tools last week,used it to repair an old sako vixen cocking piece that the thread was slogged out in.Was a very slow process tapping it out as it is hardened steel,and real easy to break a smaller tap like that.But really its well worth the modest cost to buy one.......

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## SixtyTen

> Some great work going on there. 
> 
> 
> 
> If a gun tap would do the job for you (it is a through hole you're talking about if I understand correctly?) I see CarbideNZ have M5x0.5 for $14 and M6x0.5 for $22. Bit cheaper than Tradetools.


Thanks for the heads up, I had somehow missed that CarbideNZ had them. I just ordered a M5x0.5
I also got a couple of R8 collets for my mill which are mighty hard to find for a decent price.

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## SixtyTen

Seeing as I have been stuck at home for the last week, I managed to find some time  to work on this rifle.

I finished off the sight block and made a aperture holder to screw into it. I am likely going to have to make this again, as the threaded hole for the aperture is not dead center on the threaded post that goes into the block. Meaning that if I rotate it 180degrees, the windage will change along with elevation.

I also made a quick aperture insert from an M6 capscrew. I will experiment with different sizes and designs once I start shooting it.

I cold blued the barrel and it came out way better than I expected. Turns out 4140 takes cold blue really well. The most important thing I have found is having the metal extremely clean before starting. I use CRC Brake Clean to degrease and then Acetone.






I ended up gluing the barrel in with JB Weld, as I am not that confident in my soldering skills to do a nice neat job. I also decided to glue the front sight base on with JB Weld. Time will tell whether this is a good idea or not. With proper joint prep, it should be more than strong enough.

I used a machinists level to align the top face of the sight with the dovetail rail and marked its position. I then masked off and prepped the area for bonding. A good sand, brake clean, then acetone.

The sight base was held in place using a spring clamp and the joint cleaned up.










Once that was cured overnight in the hot water cupboard. I decided that I wanted to make the dovetail in the front sight block larger. This would have been much easier to setup before it was glued to the barrel.
I did not have any dovetail cutters small enough, so I ordered a couple from ebay and then decided I couldnt wait that long and made my own from some 6mm Drill rod. It was a simple case of turn the correct profile on the lathe, polish, harden and temper the blank, and then grind it exactly in half on the surface grinder. I then manually added some relief to the bottom face and cutting edge. It worked surprisingly well and only tool about an hour to make. A good skill to have in a shop like mine.



With the sight block dovetail finished, I could start on the front sight itself. I milled this from a block of O1 tool steel as the post is only 1mm wide and I wanted to harden it so its not easy to damage. I got lucky and got the dovetail fit perfect with only a couple of passes. Its a good firm fit that needs to be tapped into place with a punch, but doesn't need bashing. Once I had the dovetail cut, I removed it from the rest of the block and milled the post to size. I left it long initially and once it was on the rifle, I carefully measured the final required height and cut it down, I also milled a very small v into the top of the post to help align the bead.

After I hardened and colt blued the front sight I added a brass bead to the top. I have some fiber optic rod on the way, but this will do for now. The brass is about 1.4mm diameter and seems about right, maybe a touch too large.










I have been working on the leather buttstock cover today. Once its finished, I will post some more photos.

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## Maca49

> Without laying hands on one, I'd assume they're welded to a "lump and hook" much the same as a break open shotgun.
> 
> ,223 is SAAMI'd at 55kpsi, .308 is maxed at 62kpsi. It's not as if we're comparing BP to modern loads...
> 
> .45-70 is llllloooooowwwwwwww pressure/impulse at 30kpsi, being originally a BP cartridge (70gn of BP...)
> 
> Don't know why you'd need 4-500gn pills?? 180-220 kills plenty well. (And subsonic in .308 has same trajectory as .22lr so it's easy to remember). In .45 you'd probably be fine throwing 300-375gn.


Its a softies 45/70 if its not chucking 500 grains out the barrel! :ORLY:

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## SixtyTen

I have finally finished this "quick side project" more or less. I just need make a thread protector and to get a load that shoots ok. Bit hard at the moment being stuck in the middle of the suburbs. I will also make a suppressor for it at some point, but I have other things I need to work on for the moment.


I decided to make a leather buttstock cover and cartridge holder. I am no leather worker, I picked up a bit of the skill making knife sheaths for the knives I was making and selling, but I was never that interested in it and never got very good. Saying that, im pretty happy with how it came out.

I made a quick pattern from paper to get the overall profile and then cut that and made a strip for the cartridges that I soaked in hot water and formed around some cases.
 I left this to dry overnight, then glued and stitched it to the body.
After that, I added some edge black and soaked the whole thing in neatsfoot oil. 

I then attached it to the rifle using a baseball stitch. easy to get off, just cut the stitching, but a pain to put back on, so I added a reasonable amount of stock wax underneath the leather to hopefully delay the need to remove it.










And this is the final product. Bang on 3kg with 4 cartridges. Hopefully it shoots well enough to hit something within 80m.





Thanks for looking.

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## Micky Duck

ok...range report is still missing...time for an update LOL
if I havent said it before...that is a plurry neat job you have done.......

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## gundoc

It will be a thumper to shoot!

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## SixtyTen

I had a chance to put 3 rounds through this a few weeks ago. I did not have a chronograph and it was only 3 rounds as I was not expecting to have an opportunity to shoot it given the location.

The loads were a combination of 410gr projectiles I purchased from ShooterNZ here on the forum and 450gr projectiles that I am making myself.



The load for both was 15-16gr of ADI AP100 with about 0.8gr Dacron filler. I have been learning all about case mouth flaring and expander mandrels, as to this point all my loading has been for boat tail jacketed projectiles, so a bit of a learning curve to deal with cast bullets well. Quickload estimates this load to be right on 1000fps.

Recoil was stout but not obnoxious. I would liken it to my lightweight and short 308 hunting rifle shooting hot loads. With full house 45-70 rounds I think it would be extremely unpleasant to un-shootable. It is only 3kg after all.

To my surprise, my efforts seemed to pay off in drawing the projectile path and barrel/barrel block in CAD to work out exactly how high my front sight and rear sight needed to be. It was shooting approx 2.5" high at 25m and good windage, which is close to what it should be to give a zero of about 80m and then around 3.5" - 4" drop at 100m.

I have been playing around with making a mold for casting my own 450gr projectiles. It took a few goes to get one that would fill out and eject the bullet properly. It is not a split mold and is along the lines of paper patch bullet molds since it does not need lube grooves as I am powder coating. I need to remake the sprue plate and make a decent handle for it, but I managed to cast enough for testing.

I have 20rds loaded up ready for some proper testing once I find somewhere to shoot. I lost access to my last spot about 6 months ago as the property was sold

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## SixtyTen

I had an opportunity to shoot this properly today. Unfortunately, only at 100m, which is not ideal for a rifle like this, with sights like this and eyes like mine. Saying that, I shot at a 10" gong for the first round and smacked it good, much to my surprise. I then moved to paper and shot 4 rounds of my 450gr projectiles and got a "group" of around 5moa, which I am very happy with. I could only barely make out the target ring as the sun was heading down and directly on the target. The sights seem to be pretty close at 100m, more than good enough for a rifle like this, which I don't intend to shoot further than 80m or so. Velocity averaged around 1060fps, so I might drop 0.2gr to keep it consistently subsonic.



Load was;
Hornady brass trimmed to around 1mm shorter than standard
Custom 450gr projectile, powder coated and sized to 0.463
14.5gr AP100
1.0gr Dacron Fill
Random primers from the bottom of my reloading drawers.

The next stage for this rifle is to make a suppressor for it. I can go to around 40-41mm before it starts getting in the way of the sight picture and I will keep it fairly short at 160mm or so, it will likely be aluminium tube and baffles and I will probably glue it together rather than threading to keep the weight and complexity to a minimum. The goal of this is not to have a mouse fart gun, but something that can be shot without hearing protection and not have the far-reaching sonic crack of high velocity cartridges so it can be used in less than rural areas when less noise is needed.

I am moving my house and workshop over the next couple of weeks, so nothing will be done for a while.

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## Micky Duck

I had good intentions and THOUGHT my bush shots would be 25-50 yards...but the other day I got 3 oppertunities and none were less than 75yards...2 clean misses at 100ish yards 2-3 hours apart....yeah nah.....have bodgied up a scope attachment...will see how we get on when its cured....
have you tried this again???

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## SixtyTen

Same with me, my last "bush" shot opportunity was 310m. Luckily I was carrying a mates 6.5CM with a range finder and drop indicator built into the scope. About the easiest possible way to shoot 300m.

I haven't had an opportunity to shoot this again between moving house, organizing my workshop and now the cops are dragging the chain on my renewal and I have no license or firearms at the moment. I applied over 7 months ago.

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## Micky Duck

well I cannot "like that"......... hopefully it will come through soon for you.
at least you got your deer with the right tools at hand.

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## Micky Duck

Im pretty sure if you made up some more wee apertures that fit onto dovetails...both sizes and could keep the cost down,they would be rather popular and sell like hot cakes...

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## grandpamac

Greeting @Micky Duck.
A lot of continental rifles have a 12mm approx dovetail including some of the early Brno .22 rifles. I have heard of some making up an adaptor to take an aperture sight intended for 3/8" dovetails.
GPM.

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## SixtyTen

> Im pretty sure if you made up some more wee apertures that fit onto dovetails...both sizes and could keep the cost down,they would be rather popular and sell like hot cakes...


The problem is in keeping the cost down. Aperture sights (even very simple ones) are fiddly things to make. I would have to charge in the region of $150 for them to be worth my time, and even then I would not be making much, if anything. Unfortunately that's just the reality of manual machines and small scale.

For Baikal's in particular, you would need much higher than standard front sights as well if the aperture was sitting on top of the dovetail.

Its a good idea, and there are bound to be people interested in the product, but probably not for the price tag that would be necessary.

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## m101a1

> The problem is in keeping the cost down. Aperture sights (even very simple ones) are fiddly things to make. I would have to charge in the region of $150 for them to be worth my time, and even then I would not be making much, if anything. Unfortunately that's just the reality of manual machines and small scale.
> 
> For Baikal's in particular, you would need much higher than standard front sights as well if the aperture was sitting on top of the dovetail.
> 
> Its a good idea, and there are bound to be people interested in the product, but probably not for the price tag that would be necessary.


Why not make a clamp type front sight with a 15>20mm high blade that you can cut down to suit as there a lots of old peep sites floating around that could be fitted by the average bubba .

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## Ross Nolan

If you are going to make a clamp on foresight, make it suppressor diameter and give yourself the extra sight radius. I've been thinking about something like that, with a couple of grub screws to keep it in place.

Make it DPT sized, and open your market right up. That, and a skinner sight attached to the rear base could be a very handy back up set, or full time for bush hunting in the rain.

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## SixtyTen

> If you are going to make a clamp on foresight, make it suppressor diameter and give yourself the extra sight radius. I've been thinking about something like that, with a couple of grub screws to keep it in place.
> 
> Make it DPT sized, and open your market right up. That, and a skinner sight attached to the rear base could be a very handy back up set, or full time for bush hunting in the rain.


I sized the front sight on this rifle to take a suppressor. Limited it to around 38mm though, rather than the standard 44mm to keep the front sight height reasonable when there is no suppressor attached.

Again, as far as making a product to sell, front sights are even more fiddly and time consuming to make.

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