# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Ruger 10/22 - Tricks, tips and modifications

## planenutz

Love them or hate them, the Ruger 10/22 is one of the best selling rifles on the market. They're cheap, easy to use, reliable and eminently customisable. Here's a good place to share your tips, tricks and modifications. Show us your cool pink camo stock - we won't judge you... (ok, maybe a little bit)... or your 100 metre target results that proves to the critics that these rifles deserve a place in your safe.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Best mod I did to mine was auto bolt release as they can be finicky from the factory trying to use the manual release. Don't even need to buy a fancy volquartzen (sp?) bolt release, all you need is a round file and google

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## res

Best thing I did after filing the release was drill a hole in the back of the receiver so you can use a cleaning rod properly. 
Trigger job helps a lot as well

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## Boaraxa

Iv got 1 of those 50 year anniversary models cool gun looks mint but the trigger was horrid kids couldn't even pull the trigger luckily my good neighbour came to the rescue he just sold his 10/22 very cheap so he wipped out his new trigger system that he,d put in I gave him $40 & my horrid one went into his gun ...now myn is awesome  :Thumbsup:

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## Jacobite

Best tip for free? Take some 1200 grit wet and dry sand paper to the BCG and polish it, if you are having trouble running subs there is a strong chance this sort it out. Or you could pay for a fancy polished one but seriously, do it yourself, it' very easy!

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## tikka

Have had few over the years. The best things I've done is Swap the steel bolt buffer pin out for a polymer and replace the factory trigger with a Volquatsen TG2000 trigger.

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## FatLabrador

Does that have a push on can @Boaraxa

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## Boaraxa

> Does that have a push on can @Boaraxa


Silencer ?...its threaded

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## FatLabrador

https://touch.trademe.co.nz/listing/view/1221047477
They make one for 10/22

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## Gerbs

Jump onto Rimfire Central forums - there are a LOT of interesting bits and tips on there  :Have A Nice Day:

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## quentin

Those push on cans smoke everything else for noise suppression. No substitute for suppressor internal volume.
Biggest improvement for mine was a trigger job. Got the Volquatsen kit, and groups closed up well.
Mine had over 20k rounds through it over 20ish years, so the BCG and action were smoothed out nicely. A friend got a new one, and it was rough as guts. Some polishing grit and elbow grease smoothed the internals out. 

I can also elaborate on what upgrades did not work well: 
Replacing the factory sporter barrel with a Gun City carbon tension barrel - no accuracy improvement, and ended up with ejection problems. The supplied suppressor was rubbish.
Hogue stock. The barrel channel was not straight, so the barrel would touch the stock. How much depended on whether I was using the bipod, or shooting off hand. Too flimsy to be useful.

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## 223nut

Following with interest, so far extended mag release and  polymer bolt buffer much quieter now with subs.

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## Milan501

Just bought my first 10/22 , love the gun awesome for rabbits and small pests . ill be following this tread with great interest . 

i need to do a trigger job on mine , and possibly the buffer .

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## Mathias

I did the trigger on mine with Volquartsen parts and the next best thing I got was a Kidd spring kit for the bolt. Pure magic for shooting subs with the choice of 3 different spring weights so you can get a reliable cycle.

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## ChrisF

There is a book about 10/22 mods that can be done cheaply , do a search for it .

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## Dama dama

What is the "BCG"?

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## Steve123

I put mine back in the safe and got a JW15. Problem solved, runs quiet as and never jambs. The 10/22 hasn't been used in ages. Might start using it for golf balls though.

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## 223nut

> What is the "BCG"?


Bolt carrier group was my guess

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## Dama dama

Ahhhh yes.  Makes sense.

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## quentin

> Bolt carrier group was my guess


Yep, referring to the 10/22 bolt - sorry about that. Must have been playing with the AR15 a bit too much of late.

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## Dama dama

Its all very foreign to this bolt action man...

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## 223nut

Anyone played with cutting the barrel down? Thinking of losing a few inches off mine so it's still legal but much nicer in the tight scrub chasing the dogs after possums. On this thought, presume the minimum length is to the muzzle rather than the end of a suppressor fixed permanently to the end?

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## sako75

Only thing ever bought from Gun City on Trademe was a Polymer buffer. Took the slap out of

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## northdude

> I put mine back in the safe and got a JW15. Problem solved, runs quiet as and never jambs. The 10/22 hasn't been used in ages. Might start using it for golf balls though.


I did the anshutz upgrade  :Have A Nice Day:

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## quentin

> I did the anshutz upgrade


I did the CZ upgrade. But the 10/22 was definitely the most fun for plinking and shooting rabbits magpies etc in close.
I found the cost to get the parts for the 10/22 to make it a sub moa gun was out of my reach. Easily doable, but not cheap.

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## planenutz

> I can also elaborate on what upgrades did not work well: 
> Replacing the factory sporter barrel with a Gun City carbon tension barrel - no accuracy improvement, and ended up with ejection problems. The supplied suppressor was rubbish.
> Hogue stock. The barrel channel was not straight, so the barrel would touch the stock. How much depended on whether I was using the bipod, or shooting off hand. Too flimsy to be useful.


Now that's interesting. I was considering that modification but when looking at the photos on TM the barrels seemed to be made from a three-piece arrangement. It looked like there was a sleeve (I assume steel?) inside a fluted aluminium extrusion over which they screwed on a carbon tube. Is this correct?

I couldn't work out how this was going to be better/faster/lighter/quieter etc? 

As for the Hogue Stock, I bought a 10/22 with this fitted from new and I really like it. No issues with the barrel channel and I use a bipod on it all the time without problems. Maybe yours was made on a Friday mate?

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## planenutz

Yeah, my first modification was to replace the buffer too. That took some of the noise out of the action and for the price of the buffer, well worth it. 

Then I found some info online about lightening up the trigger and since I'm a tight-ass and didn't want to spend a fortune on an aftermarket trigger assembly, I spent a winter evening reworking the trigger parts. It was easy to do and was the single best modification I've done to the rifle. It really improved accuracy. 

I'd never had an issue with the guns cycling - even with subs. Another modification I found recommended rounding off the back of the Bolt Carrier. I played with this for a while until I understood the geometry then took to it with a belt sander. It didn't take much work to change the profile a little and now the cocking of the trigger group is much smoother. Everything was polished with 1500 wet and dry afterwards. Basically you spread the load of the cocking action over a larger area (and a longer period of time). This seems to reduce the load on the bolt carrier and makes the action smoother. Again this helped with accuracy and it also reduced the noise of the action. I expect it also helps with cycling when using reduced loads such as subs because I would have to conclude less energy is used to cock the trigger group. 

Taking to the Bolt Release with a file like Ryan talks about was also worth the effort. No need spending money on an after-market one... 10 minutes on a small file is all you need. That's another worthwhile modification. So much better. 

I'm still using the original standard barrels and each of my 10/22's has had a few thousand round through them, yet I was mucking about with a 100 m target the other day and without much effort surprised myself with the results. While sitting unsupported I put 10 rounds into less than 100mm using subsonic ammo. When I get a chance to repeat that I'll take a bipod and see what it will really do but I've recently been impressed with my new-found ability to drop rabbits out to 100m while using subsonic ammo.

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## quentin

The carbon tension barrel is a multi piece effort. Steel rifled core and chamber, alloy finned extrusion, carbon sleeve over it all, and an alloy screw at the muzzle end to pull it all together. The theory being the steel core is put under tension keeping it straight and accurate. 
The only part of the brief they hit was the weight. It was a lot lighter than the same diameter barrel in steel. 

Glad you got a nice straight Hogue stock.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## gundoc

After 50 years of tuning 10/22's (I did my first one in 1966) I can tell you that they are accurate and reliable rifles, head and shoulders above any other semi-auto on the market.  There have been more unneccesary gizmos offered on the aftermarket for them than any other rifle, with the exception of the AR15.  These following things are ALL that is needed to bring out the full potential of the 10/22; a good 2.5 lb trigger job, permanently fit the barrel to the receiver, replace the factory 'scope base with a Weaver (or similar), fit a buffer pin, drill a cleaning rod hole in the back of the receiver, modify the bolt release to trip when the bolt is retracted slightly, learn how to strip, clean and reassemble your magazine correctly (about once every 2-3,000 rounds).  If you intend to run subsonics through a suppressor then the return spring needs to be clipped by 12mm.  Most of these jobs need to be done by a professional who is TOTALLY familiar with the work (especially the trigger job and the return spring job).  These few (and inexpensive jobs, less than $100) will give you an accurate (12-15mm groups at 50 metres) and totally reliable rifle that will last a lifetime.  There is no need for all the expensive and superfluous aftermarket junk that seems to be all the rage!

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## planenutz

> The carbon tension barrel is a multi piece effort. Steel rifled core and chamber, alloy finned extrusion, carbon sleeve over it all, and an alloy screw at the muzzle end to pull it all together. The theory being the steel core is put under tension keeping it straight and accurate.


Right. So I was correct in my assumptions about the assembly... thanks for that Quentin. 

Hmmm... so that would suggest that in order to retain accuracy you would need to have that Alloy Nut tightened to the correct torque and that in turn would also be affected by a number of things... like temperature. Not to mention the effect of compression on the carbon tube over time because I'd assume that the heat of the barrel would affect the resins and over an extended duration (of years, maybe?) the tension on the inner barrel might become reduced. It sounds like there are too many variable to me.

But it LOOKS cool!!!   

 :Have A Nice Day:  

And is the suppressor a separate part of the barrel or an integral part of the overall design? Can you buy them individually?

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## Gerbs

Let's see.
My current one started off as a "special" from Gun City.
Hogue stock with a GC 10/22 receiver.
Since then:
16.5in KIDD barrel, with a custom fitted Hardy Rimfire suppressor
Ruger BX trigger with polish job
Auto bolt release
Awesome extended magazine release - my trigger finger moves forward and presses a little release latch that follows contour of trigger guard
Excessively polished bolt
Polymer buffer
Sitting in a Magpul X22 Hunter stock (thanks Digit)

I think the only Ruger factory part left is the bolt - but it's eerily accurate. Spooky almost.

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## northdude

> I did the CZ upgrade. But the 10/22 was definitely the most fun for plinking and shooting rabbits magpies etc in close.
> I found the cost to get the parts for the 10/22 to make it a sub moa gun was out of my reach. Easily doable, but not cheap.


Exactly cz Annie even most jws do it out of the box

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## gonetropo

fit a polymer buffer, get a trigger job done and maybe a couple of turns off the recoil spring so it cycles subs.
then get rid of the scope base and epoxy+screw a weaver base on.

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## planenutz

> If you intend to run subsonics through a suppressor then the return spring needs to be clipped by 12mm.


Can you please elaborate on this? What's the reasoning, advantages,  etc? I would have thought you'd need to increase the spring pressure rather than reduce it for subs. You've got me perplexed here.

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## planenutz

> Awesome extended magazine release - my trigger finger moves forward and presses a little release latch that follows contour of trigger guard...


I've looked at those. Are they really that good, huh? Might have to splash out. 

I've presently got one of the old flush release levers and one of the short extension levers. I had the short extension lever... the kids have a habit of resting it on a hard surface (light the door of the truck) and the magazine drops out. Lost a Mag this way. Would go to the old system if I could find one... or this lever idea.

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## gundoc

> Can you please elaborate on this? What's the reasoning, advantages,  etc? I would have thought you'd need to increase the spring pressure rather than reduce it for subs. You've got me perplexed here.


The weight of the bolt and the strength of the return spring combined is too much for the low recoiling subs to push the bolt back far enough to reliably eject the fired case, and feed a new round.  The 12mm off the spring (it involves disassembling the return spring assembly, cutting and reshaping the end, assembly and re-riveting) is just the right amount to allow reliable cycling with subs, and in conjunction with a buffer pin, is safe to use with supersonic loads.  Increasing the spring pressure would make it even harder for the bolt open.

PS.  ALL extended mag release catches make it easier to lose your mags!  Press the standard button up with your left (or right if you are sinister) third finger and the mag will drop into your hand while your other hand retains control of the rifle.

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## Gerbs

> I've looked at those. Are they really that good, huh? Might have to splash out.


PWS Lever
This is what I have - Its fantastic.
I did trim and file down the left side tho - I only use my right hand to release the mag, and as gundoc said, they can catch and drop a mag while its on your back.

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## quentin

As for magazines, I found the factory 10 round rotary mag was the most solid performer. I had Ruger bx15 and promag 15 round mags as well, and they were kinda average and large. The promag was a pita to load, and the Ruger BX15 jammed until I disassembled it and polished the alloy ramp. (after that it was good and reliable).

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## johnd

Best thing I ever did was get the Target model. No pissing about, Good trigger, tight groups, full size stock.
Oh yeah and its for sale. No issues just down sizing.

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## Martin358

> After 50 years of tuning 10/22's (I did my first one in 1966) I can tell you that they are accurate and reliable rifles, head and shoulders above any other semi-auto on the market.  There have been more unneccesary gizmos offered on the aftermarket for them than any other rifle, with the exception of the AR15.  These following things are ALL that is needed to bring out the full potential of the 10/22; a good 2.5 lb trigger job, permanently fit the barrel to the receiver, replace the factory 'scope base with a Weaver (or similar), fit a buffer pin, drill a cleaning rod hole in the back of the receiver, modify the bolt release to trip when the bolt is retracted slightly, learn how to strip, clean and reassemble your magazine correctly (about once every 2-3,000 rounds).  If you intend to run subsonics through a suppressor then the return spring needs to be clipped by 12mm.  Most of these jobs need to be done by a professional who is TOTALLY familiar with the work (especially the trigger job and the return spring job).  These few (and inexpensive jobs, less than $100) will give you an accurate (12-15mm groups at 50 metres) and totally reliable rifle that will last a lifetime.  There is no need for all the expensive and superfluous aftermarket junk that seems to be all the rage!


How do you permanently fix the barrel to the receiver

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## quentin

Some aftermarket 10/22 pattern receivers are threaded, and accept a threaded barrel.  Other than that, the option is fully bed, including the barrel channel to ensure the barrel does not droop on the alloy action.

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## clickbang

> Best thing I ever did was get the Target model. No pissing about, Good trigger, tight groups, full size stock.
> Oh yeah and its for sale. No issues just down sizing.


How much you looking for for it? Pm me pics and price if you like

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## gundoc

> How do you permanently fix the barrel to the receiver


I put the barrel in the lathe and run a light knurl on the barrel shank to increase the diameter to a firm push fit, smear retaining grade Loctite on the shank and press in place (taking care to get correct alignment) then refit the barrel clamp with some normal grade Loctite on the screws.  The barrel can be removed with heat to break down the Loctite, but no real reason exists to ever take the barrel out again unless it has been damaged.  The standard Ruger barrels are perfectly accurate but minute movement between the barrel and the receiver (that has the scope attached) are the cause of their mediocre accuracy as they come from the factory.  The late model 10/22's have a tighter barrel fit than the early ones.  The standard triggers are also perfectly good subject to being given a good trigger job (not a job for amateurs).

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## Gerbs

> The standard triggers are also perfectly good subject to being given a good trigger job (not a job for amateurs).


Shame you're retired then ain't it  :Wink:

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## 223nut

Started playing around with my 10/22 recently. Not going to get one but didn't realise that these were available https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CNChFq5g7To

Charging handle that is for lefties, mounts into the scope rail with a catch to pull back on the factory handle

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## quentin

The design has merit, but I suspect the Gun City implementation is not quite up to the Volquartsen standard. https://www.volquartsen.com/products...tension-barrel.

The suppressor is separate from the barrel, but keeps the same form factor for a better aesthetic. The suppressor is totally rubbish at sound suppression by the way. I believe the suppressor is part of the barrel price and are sold together.

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## Carpe Diem

Here's my wee project - If i can call it that.

Somebody had lovingly put this together but had made some glaring errors so was obviously sold as it didn't shoot as well as they hoped. As Gun doc says a bit of love and attention goes a long way... I bought it mainly for the B&C odyssey stock and the Volquartsen barrel which is otherwise worth a the entire normal 10/22 in price. On closer inspection the only thing that was stock was the receiver housing with the serials attached. Everything else was Volquartsen or B&C 

I really like the rail tapped to the barrel rather than the receiver (how many of you have seen those misaligned over the years!!
OK so what it wouldn't do....
1. Extract CCI out of the barrel given the fine tolerances of the Volquartsen target barrel - Would shoot SK fine... but that's getting had to find these days.... little bit of love to create a deeper extraction depression on the barrel end with the Dremel diamond burr and polish out. Now it grabs the edge of the round extracting happily for those wax covered rounds.
2. Polish internal face of the receiver to mate to nice polished block of the action. as this is a metal to metal face and can fill with carbon over time I like to polish up so you can tell when its clean and tidy.
3. Dremel polish /light grind for the housing around the mag area so that the standard 10 box would fall nicely out of the stock when you hit the release button. Now this was more for me shooting details so there wasn't mucking around etc with mag changes as the B&C was a tight fit so we just made sure this was optimised.
4. Take the tension out of the rear grub srcrew in the rail as this was screwed in too tight and lifted the bum of the scope. Sat the straight edge on this and reset apropriately.
5. Took the barrel out and reseated - similar to Gun doc said the V block was tightened incorrectly twisting the barrel down into the barrel channel. As there was a very firm fit - we re-seated and re torqued the v block with correct settings hey presto no touching the channel once a small metal washer was placed under the king screw also - as as a checking point prior to a proper bedding job.

Haven't got to the bedding job yet - haven't needed to shoots happily cci standard rounds at 1/2 nail size (if I do my thing any way)

Next change on the list and what I would recommend is a Kidd aftermarket trigger from Darrin at USA Guns Ltd as the Volquartsen one it comes with is a consistent single setting of 2.5 lb's.

We'll see if I can be bothered in doing a full bedding and rear Kidd lug for this one in the future.

Here she is...

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## gonetropo

Trigger job and threading by Gundoc, Choate Draganov stock, weaver base with 3.5-10X50 scope (BSA Phantom) Shoots bloody well and has killed over 5000 bunnies

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## 223nut

Anyone know who would sell spare magazine retention plunger and spring? No idea where mine went in the process of stripping it down for a good clean and putting a new stock on

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## planenutz

> Anyone know who would sell spare magazine retention plunger and spring? No idea where mine went in the process of stripping it down for a good clean and putting a new stock on


Bugger. Bloody Weka's.

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## SiB

I've just fitted my choate dragunov stock; what's the smart trick to removing the rear sight block so I can fit the upper part too? (Without removing my scope)

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## gonetropo

> I've just fitted my choate dragunov stock; what's the smart trick to removing the rear sight block so I can fit the upper part too? (Without removing my scope)


i didnt have too, it had a cut out that went over the rear sight. however if you want to remove it put something that wont scratch it like a toothbrush handle and tap it out with a hammer from right to left

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## 223nut

> Bugger. Bloody Weka's.


Nope just an idiot with a screwdriver that tried doing thing in a shed full of carp not on a clean work table...

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## gonetropo

> Nope just an idiot with a screwdriver that tried doing thing in a shed full of carp not on a clean work table...


a shed full of carp? the fish smell would be as bad as a lesbian mardi gras !!

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## sako75

Like the left hand charging handle

I have a slide on plastic silencer which I use when needed. Not flash but does the job. Don't bother with the hose clip

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Nope just an idiot with a screwdriver that tried doing thing in a shed full of carp not on a clean work table...


????

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## res

> Like the left hand charging handle


I just don't get this, it's so easy to cut a slot and make a proper left handed charging handle for a ruger 10/22. 

Hell, without a machine shop I have even made three left hand eject ones for mates-it's hardly rocket science!

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## planenutz

> ... I have even made three left hand eject ones for mates-it's hardly rocket science!


That sounds like fun. Most of it seems straight forward. Did you close off the right side or leave it open?

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## rambo-6mmrem

I had one of the kidd ones
only part labeled ruger was the mag...... that was fantastic it was my 25m indoor rifle which replaced a bolt action
was over 2k worth then I had a 6-20 leupold on top
was the only 10/22 if had (an ive had a few) that's been truly what I call accurate (same hole at 25m,well under an inch at 50,and close to an inch at 100)
I stupidly sold that rifle way to cheep after failing on trademe a couple of times a guy was trying to work me down over the phone I was busy and and in a hurry at the time and agreed on a price I shouldn't have I tried to renege the next day but he gave me the major gilt trip he got a real good deal there

they are the most reliable semi 22 on the market maybe not the most accurate out the box (but easily modifiable as title says) a fantastic bunny gun get the right ammo keep it clean and you will never have a jam

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## res

> That sounds like fun. Most of it seems straight forward. Did you close off the right side or leave it open?


Left it open, well at least one of the guys has closed it with duct tape. 
Closing it up properly is beyond my abilities as a welder unfortunately-I know, I should hand in my man card.

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## andyanimal31

the best thing I ever did to my 10/22 was sell it for something that actually shot well.
after a lot of research I settled on the marlin model 60 deluxe.
$470 new, accurate, nice wood and doesn't play up.
I think from memory they have sold more model 60s than the 10/22. 
the only mod I have done is a trigger job for $40.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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## rambo-6mmrem

> the best thing I ever did to my 10/22 was sell it for something that actually shot well.
> after a lot of research I settled on the marlin model 60 deluxe.
> $470 new, accurate, nice wood and doesn't play up.
> I think from memory they have sold more model 60s than the 10/22. 
> the only mod I have done is a trigger job for $40.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


I love the model 60 great rifles ive had a couple of them aswell  
but there are disadvantages I don't like tube feed really I like to have mags in my pocket and be able to quick change when empty
the model 60 (compared to the ruger) is a pain in the arse to strip and clean (but its not that hard really once you have done it a few times

the major advantage of a model 60 is on the accuracy front 

the model 60 and ruger are on par reliability wise as long as they are kept clean but that goes for any semi auto they work better when clean

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## zimmer

> the best thing I ever did to my 10/22 was sell it for something that actually shot well.
> after a lot of research I settled on the marlin model 60 deluxe.
> $470 new, accurate, nice wood and doesn't play up.
> I think from memory they have sold more model 60s than the 10/22. 
> the only mod I have done is a trigger job for $40.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Yeh was in Serious Shooters some time ago gazing at the 22s, and the gun expurt said what I needed was a 10/22, the most sold 22 in history. When I corrected him his eyes just glazed over and he ignored me. IIRC I think it is something like 15 million Marlin 60/795s to around 10 million rugas.
I have a 795  :Thumbsup: 

Fuse lit. Withdrawing a safe distance now.......

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## Ultimitsu

Let's start with what ruger has done right - the mag. The factory mags, black, clear, 10 shots, 25 shots, are all very good and the most reliable ones you can buy. There exists a aftermarket version that opens the bolt automatically after the mag is empty, I never try it and it is quite expensive, but if reliable then it is quite an interesting upgrade. 

Now let's discuss everything else:

*Barrel* 

Factory barrel is sub par compared to all other rifles of the same price range (or slightly below). But it is very reliably. Ruger makes them tolerant to all different sorts of ammos but in the process made them inaccurate. decent enough for plinking but not good enough for hunting and worse for target shooting. There are several good options:
1. KIDD ultralite. Possibly the best value that you can buy in NZ. Good enough for target shooting and great for hunting. 
2. Whistlepig. Cheaper than KIDD but harder to get, very similar in quality and accuracy. Very very light.
3, KIDD bullbarrel. Very accurate and reliable, reasonably priced. If you fancy yourself as tough guy then take it out to hunting too. I do not think it offers enough accuracy advantage over the ultralight version, but is about twice as heavy. 
4, Magnum Research carbon fibre. The only carbon fibre covered 10/22 barrel that is actually ultra light and ultra accurate. Very hard to buy and possibly very expensive. 

Screw on barrel/action sets are slightly more accurate, but not enough to compensate for the loss of convenience. KIDD used to make them as their supergrade, but now dropped this design in favour of a new slot in design (which is different and superior to ruger's factual v-block design).

VERY IMPORTANT: unless you only shoot off bench rest, do not upgrade barrel until you have upgraded the trigger.

*TRIGGER*

Factory trigger is super bad. Super heavy, long travel, and uncertain break. Home modding can only lighten the weight but not fixing these other problems and make the rifle unsafe. There are a number of reports on the net where people's home trigger job turned the rifle into fully auto. I recommend you do it just for the kicks. But if you want real improvement you have to spend money. The cheaper best option is to buy KIDD drop in kit. The more expensive but even better option is to buy a 2-stage from Darrin.

*Receiver and Bolt*
Factory receiver is stamped, but oddly enough it works quite well. The factory bolt is also pretty good, I cannot feel any difference between it and hgih end stuff when shooting. So for these two items I think you can stick to the ruger stuff if you dont want to spend money. The skinny 3/8 inch factory scope rail works fine. the 10/22 does not have enough recoil to cause any issues so I dont see any point in replacing it - unless you want a rail with built in MOA compensation. Ruger factory barrels often have barrel drooping (barrel pointing downwards) so your scope may run out of adjustments. However you should an after market barrel then you will not have this problem. Rugger barrels's action end have narrower diameter to ensure quick and easy assemble, the looseness is what introduces the drooping. Aftermarket barrels all have much tighter tolerance  (so much so you usually have to sand down it a little to fit it into the receiver) so you will not have drooping. The polymer buffer is a cheap mod, it may cause subs have cycle problems because there is not enough bang for the bolt to push thick, wax coated rounds all the way into the chamber. but on a whole it is probably a worthwhile trade off.

*Stock*

If you changed the barrel, chances are the factory stock will not fit, because almost all aftermarket barrels are 0.920 inch. Hogue is very light and offers good grip, but some may find it too soft. if you attach any accessories they may affect the stock that the barrel may no longer free float. Boyd stock is an excellent choice - if you can still manage to get them directly from the US.

*What to Buy*
If you just want a 10/22 for plinking, buy the cheapest one on trademe, it is as good as the new ones in the shops. Basic 10/22 are very reliable and will always be inaccurate.
If you want a highly accurate semi-auto for target shooting, do not buy a 10/22 and then buy upgrade parts, it is inefficient. Just buy a KIDD from Darrin or a Magnum Research.
If you have your mind set on upgrading your existing 10/22 then in order of importance and benefit, you should upgrade in this order - buffer, trigger, scope, barrel, stock.


*Why do people bother with accurasing 10/22?*
A lot of people ask this question. high end or highly modded 10/22s are easily $2000+, that is Annie 17xx territory. The first question is, how accurate can they be? If you buy a KIDD or Magnum research, it can be very accurate. while it will never be as accurate as a single shot annie Match 54 but it is not far off. The high end 10/22s have very tight chamber, but the problem is that every round is always slightly deformed as it was forced into the chamber. Most of the time it is only the wax coating that is affected but sometimes the lead must also be slightly affected. Also the triggers, even the mighty KIDD 2-stage, can only go down to 12 ounces ( 6+6). You can never have a annie class hair trigger. 

The second question then is, why bother with such expensive 22LR that is never as good as a bolt action? The appeal in an highly accurate semi-auto is the fact that you do not have to re-position yourself after every shot, which you must do with a bolt-action. With a single shot bolt action, you have to move a lot to reload the round and work the bolt; with a repeater bolt action, you move less but still do have to move one arm a lot. That mean after each shot you have to position yourself again. it takes time and your may not get into the perfect position every time. If you are olympics class pro shooter who trains 4 hours a day, every day, then it is not an issue. You will always get into the right position every time. But if you are full time working weekend shooting hobbyist, you probably will not be that good. every time you reload and work the bolt, it lowers your overall consistency and therefore lowers your overall accuracy. For an average hobbyist, 95% consistency of 90% accuracy is much better than 70% consistency of 95% accuracy.

If you are hunting one shot animals, there is not much use for an accurate semi-auto. But if you are shooting possums for example, if you missed the first shot you often have a chance for a follow up shot, then semi-auto is excellent. An accurate semi-auto means you can pull off these 70 meter shots free hand kneeling, which you cannot do (reliably) with a factory grade semi-auto.

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## Gerbs

Ultimitsu - damn good write up.

My experience:

Whistlepig barrels need to be imported and don't get sent pre-threaded. Had a couple, usually $240ish NZD landed.
Very nice, light, easier to fit than KIDD.
Just as accurate as a KIDD for normal hunting use.

KIDD hardware is damn nice but it comes at a price.
I'm running a KIDD barrel currently and I like it.

Stocks - huge fan of the Magpul X22 stock that you can get from NZAR15. It's good.
Hogue stock is nice for a beater rifle that has a hard life. Much much nicer than the factory nylon stock.

Polymer bolt buffer - Nike. Just do it

Trigger - running the Ruger BX trigger. Better than the Volquartsen drop in kit, but Timney is better again, and KIDD simply dominates. VQ drop in starts about $80, Ruger BX for $199, Timney usually $450ish and KIDD about the same.
I'm trying to talk myself out of getting the KIDD and failing.

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## gadgetman

> An accurate semi-auto means you can pull off these 70 meter shots free hand kneeling, which you cannot do (reliably) with a factory grade semi-auto.


That depends on how wise a choice you make with your original purchase. If you buy the worlds largest selling 22lr semi auto action it is perfectly achievable and would be the expectation, and not the exception.

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## Tuidog

> I put the barrel in the lathe and run a light knurl on the barrel shank to increase the diameter to a firm push fit, smear retaining grade Loctite on the shank and press in place (taking care to get correct alignment) then refit the barrel clamp with some normal grade Loctite on the screws.  The barrel can be removed with heat to break down the Loctite, but no real reason exists to ever take the barrel out again unless it has been damaged.  The standard Ruger barrels are perfectly accurate but minute movement between the barrel and the receiver (that has the scope attached) are the cause of their mediocre accuracy as they come from the factory.  The late model 10/22's have a tighter barrel fit than the early ones.  The standard triggers are also perfectly good subject to being given a good trigger job (not a job for amateurs).


You worked over the trigger and did  a barrel chop, thread and put one of your suppressors on my fathers 10/22. Its a fantastic shooter. When you were still in the city.

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## 7x64

I have an early (70s) 10/22 that also got the gundoc treatment on the trigger and threading (I bought it used, I'm not that old!). It's also a good shooter. A mate had a early 90s one and that too shot very well (same trigger job). Another guy had a "deluxe" of the same era and found his was a total dog which annoyed him no end when he shot with us. Seems the later production have gone downhill?

I also stripped the polyurethane off the stock and oiled it. Looks like a different rifle now.

I wonder how many of these things gundoc touched up over the years!

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## SiB

Good write up @Ultimitsu.  

I agree that a b/a will probably rate higher for accuracy, but also agree that 95% of 90% is better grouping with the s/a.  I think I follows your maths anyway. 

I think that because the Ruger has so many customisable options, it appeals. Like a Harley..........

Having said that, I enjoy my 10/22.  If following this I find  some not-crazy-$ ideas that help improve my (rifle's) accuracy, all the better.

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## 223nut

Waiting to get mine back and see how it behaves.... Speaking of what thread have people got on a 10/22 standard 1/2*20? Going to take pics of one on another barrel and post on what's the thread.

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## Ultimitsu

> That depends on how wise a choice you make with your original purchase. If you buy the worlds largest selling 22lr semi auto action it is perfectly achievable and would be the expectation, and not the exception.


I respect people having their own view and preference. But I am truly uncertain about the accuracy claims of the 795. I believe it is probably quite accurate for a factory semi auto, especially a low end one. But people make them out to be CZ class accurate which I have trouble believing. 

I did a google image search of "marin 795 grouping", below is the first 4 grouping images I find:

1. 25 yards with various ammo, original URL - Marlin 795 thread [Archive] - Page 2 - Calguns.net
it is definitely not CZ class and definitely not going to reliably hit rabbits/magpie at 70 metres.


2. 40 shots at 50 yards. Again, below CZ class. original URL Marlin 795 Break in + Zeroing - RimfireCentral.com Forums




3. various ammo at 25 Yards.



4. the best looking group so far, still around 1 inch at 50 yards. url https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...curacy.728753/



In the field and kneeling, even good shooters will do a 1 inch spread at 50 meters, if the rifle is 1.5 inch at 50, then you get a combined spread of 2.5 inches; at 70 meters it will be almost a 4 inch spread. you cannot reliably hit a rabbit sized target.

There is no shame in  50 metres 1.5 inch group for a factory semi-auto. Even the highest end single shot rifle can shoot 0.5 inch groups with some (not so cheap) ammo: Testing .22 LR ammo In A Bleiker Rifle - Updated With Targets - Topic

"We got one of those Swiss made Bleiker rifles. This particular model is supposed to be one of the most accurate made for the .22 long rifle cartridge."

"50-Yard Results
0.162 Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS
...
0.513 Winchester Super X
0.516 Kassnar Concorde
0.539 CCI Blazer
0.560 Winchester Supreme Pistol
0.576 Norinco Pistol Revolver
0.593 SK Standard
0.611 Sellier And Bellot HP
0.626 SK Standard HP
0.686 Logo HV
0.956 Pobjeda Target"

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## Ultimitsu

> Whistlepig barrels need to be imported and don't get sent pre-threaded. Had a couple, usually $240ish NZD landed.
> Very nice, light, easier to fit than KIDD.
> Just as accurate as a KIDD for normal hunting use.
> 
> KIDD hardware is damn nice but it comes at a price.
> I'm running a KIDD barrel currently and I like it.
> 
> Stocks - huge fan of the Magpul X22 stock that you can get from NZAR15. It's good.
> Hogue stock is nice for a beater rifle that has a hard life. Much much nicer than the factory nylon stock.
> ...


Thanks Gerbs. I got my whistlepig pre-threaded, it did add to the cost but I thought it was better than getting someone else to do it. it was threated to USA standard of 1/2 28 TPI.

Do not try the kidd 2 stage, it is like smoking, if you start you will never be an addict.

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## Beetroot

Best thing I did was buy a Remington 597 and install a volquartsen ejector.

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## gadgetman

> I respect people having their own view and preference. But I am truly uncertain about the accuracy claims of the 795. I believe it is probably quite accurate for a factory semi auto, especially a low end one. But people make them out to be CZ class accurate which I have trouble believing. 
> 
> I did a google image search of "marin 795 grouping", below is the first 4 grouping images I find:
> 
> 1. 25 yards with various ammo, original URL - Marlin 795 thread [Archive] - Page 2 - Calguns.net
> it is definitely not CZ class and definitely not going to reliably hit rabbits/magpie at 70 metres.
> Attachment 61567
> 
> 2. 40 shots at 50 yards. Again, below CZ class. original URL Marlin 795 Break in + Zeroing - RimfireCentral.com Forums
> ...


You should cast your net a little wider, or closer to home. I have a friend down here that was of similar opinion regarding semiautos. After a bit of hands on testing his opinion changed. The Marlin 60's have a bit more accuracy over the 795's. Before buying a semi I checked out rimfire central and checked out a number of threads on owners of both the Ruger and Marlin. If they wanted to hunt or target shoot it was almost invariably the Marlin that was picked up, for pimping and plinking the Ruger.

But to say that it is no good for reliably shooting rabbits past 70m is totally misleading and misinformed. I would be happy shooting rabbits to 110m with at least a 95% strike rate on the boiler room, along with many of the others I hunt with. My 795 is standard other than a scope and floppy spring to replace the anti lawsuit factory trigger return spring.

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## gundoc

> I wonder how many of these things gundoc touched up over the years!


I probably averaged 5 a week for more than 40 years.  Sometimes I did them in case lots for retailers.  I also made a good number of fully suppressed bolt-action .22's (mostly JW15's) that my customers named 'click-pops' (the click of the firing pin and the pop of the rabbit).  I would buy 10 rifle case lots of JW15's, tune the bolt and trigger, shorten the barrel to 13" and turn in down in diameter, port the barrel with 12 holes about 2.5" back from the muzzle, thread the barrel just in front of the receiver and fit a full length overbarrel suppressor, and modify the stock barrel channel to suit.  They were very quiet and stunningly accurate with Winchester subsonics (1/2" or better at 50 metres).  Back to point of 10/22's, the factory barrels are perfectly accurate when properly fitted (just like the Norinco JW15's). Ultimitsu's post above is a real good example of how to waste money.  My earlier post in this thread tells how to achieve the same results for well under $100. Go figure!

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## bunji

I only just seen this post and read your comments with interest gundoc as until you mentioned the push fit barrels l had forgotten about them.Back in 85 l was shooting rabbits professionally in oz and the mob we were shooting for had a deal where once you proved your worth you could purchase through them at dealer rates customized Brno Model 2's and also custom 10/22's which had  the following done to them-trigger job set at 2lbs-barrel permanently fitted (l thought they were silver soldered but they may well have been loc-tited as you said)-Cleaning hole drilled and tapped-weaver bases with a 2x loopy fitted these were guaranteed to shoot 1/2 inch at 50 mtrs at most and all came with the test target. l got my boss to rummage through them at the office and got one that shot just over 3/8 with the plain wrap bulk winchester solids we used (everything had to be head shot).These were what we used to shoot in the sun set hours from the ute as we drove to our spotlighting block, the rabbits were that thick on the edge of the salt bush desert country where we shot a lot of the rabbits did not burrow but would just push up the salt bush into little hutches and squat there thinking they were safe,the 10/22's were easier to use than a bolt for the bulk shooting involved,we would then swap over to the Brno's for the spotlighting later we had to average 200 pair a night to make a good quid and we shot 250-300 pair a lot of the time.Those little rugers spent their whole working life covered in the fine talcum like desert dust and would only hiccup when maintenance was not kept up  .All the work was done by a Gunsmith in Sydney named Heimo Petzl who also set up our Fox and roo Rem 700's in .222, l put that much lead through the ruger l could hit quail flying with it and head shooting rabbits on the run was no problem,l much later went on to represent my state in Skeet shooting and shot on invitation  internationally and l really believe it was my time behind the butt  on that Ruger that got me to that level.

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## bunji

,Gundoc did you use to bed them and put a crossbolt in through the rear trigger group pin?l posted elsewhere in the thread about the custom rugers we used and they were bedded and the cross bolts fitted and the front barrel band removed.

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## gundoc

> ,Gundoc did you use to bed them and put a crossbolt in through the rear trigger group pin?l posted elsewhere in the thread about the custom rugers we used and they were bedded and the cross bolts fitted and the front barrel band removed.


No, never bothered with bedding unless a customer specifically asked for it.  I found the standard front action screw was perfectly adequate for good accuracy, and the barrel was sufficiently stiff to allow the use of the barrel band without problems.  With the standard system the action is floating, and with the barrel permanently fitted they shot well.

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## bunji

Yes l was always dubious on it and in the end my rifle like a few others l heard of with that mod succumbed to cracking at this point,but it must be said they were shot 10X as much as a regular owner would in a life time over the 5 yrs l shot pro and we would totally strip and clean once a week,l have looked at a few of the high end modified 10/22's over the years and seen that none seemed to do this so figured it was of little real value.I have always thought the rugers got a bad rapp from owners neglect more than anything else.

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## Ultimitsu

> Back to point of 10/22's, the factory barrels are perfectly accurate when properly fitted (just like the Norinco JW15's). Ultimitsu's post above is a real good example of how to waste money.  My earlier post in this thread tells how to achieve the same results for well under $100. Go figure!


Well, good sir, your post puzzle me incredibly. I do not know you and I do not think you know me. What is with the hostility? 

I have read all your posts in this thread, the only mod you are suggesting that would affect accuracy of the barrel is "permanently fix the barrel to the receiver". You appear to be saying both that - 1. this is the only cause of 10/22's reputed inaccuracy; and 2. if this is done the rifle should have very good accuracy. 

That simply is not true. 

There are a number of rifles that has similar quick barrel removal set ups, CZ455 and Sako Quad for example. Yet both are reputed to have accuracy on the other end of the spectrum as the 10/22. In fact, if you put ANY aftermarket slide-in barrel on a factory 10/22 you will notice an instant accuracy improvement. That proves that the problem is not the slide-in fitting but the 10/22 barrel itself. 

As for the idea of "waste money". I am not sure what you mean. 10/22's aftermarket stocks and barrels are about the same price as any other guns' (and 10/22 needs them more than most). Are you suggesting that everyone who changes stock and barrel for any gun is wasting money? 

The only expensive part that stands out for 10/22 is trigger upgrades. A top end trigger (KIDD 2 stage) cost 600 bucks, that is more than a base rifle. However because the way the factory trigger is designed and the semi-auto nature of the rifle, there is no cheaper way to achieve the same result. If you want to spend less, a drop-in kit cost about 40% that and gives you very good result. 

Upgrading parts is expensive for any rifle. The appeal of 10/22 is that most of the upgraded stuff are very easy to install at home and little experience, tools, and hands-on-skill is required.

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## gundoc

> Well, good sir, your post puzzle me incredibly. I do not know you and I do not think you know me. What is with the hostility? 
> 
> I have read all your posts in this thread, the only mod you are suggesting that would affect accuracy of the barrel is "permanently fix the barrel to the receiver". You appear to be saying both that - 1. this is the only cause of 10/22's reputed inaccuracy; and 2. if this is done the rifle should have very good accuracy. 
> 
> That simply is not true. 
> 
> There are a number of rifles that has similar quick barrel removal set ups, CZ455 and Sako Quad for example. Yet both are reputed to have accuracy on the other end of the spectrum as the 10/22. In fact, if you put ANY aftermarket slide-in barrel on a factory 10/22 you will notice an instant accuracy improvement. That proves that the problem is not the slide-in fitting but the 10/22 barrel itself. 
> 
> As for the idea of "waste money". I am not sure what you mean. 10/22's aftermarket stocks and barrels are about the same price as any other guns' (and 10/22 needs them more than most). Are you suggesting that everyone who changes stock and barrel for any gun is wasting money? 
> ...


I do not know you and intend no personal disrespect.  I was simply pointing out that it is not neccesary to spend a large amount of money on aftermarket parts for the 10/22 when the same result (ie; MOA or better grouping) can be achieved with the factory components and some skilled handwork for less than $100.  I will happily concede that a bad batch of 10/22 barrels did come through a few years ago over a period of a few months until the production problem was corrected (and a large number of barrels were replaced under warranty) but apart from that batch, all other Ruger 10/22 factory barrels have been capable of MOA or better accuracy.  Getting that accuracy potential out of them required the steps I have mentioned (trigger job, barrel refit, better scope base).  The buffer pin replacement protects the telescopic sights from damage (many of the 'scopes have reticules that are made by a metal printing process that is quite fragile to the 'double tap' that occurs when the bolt contacts the steel pin under recoil) and the tuned recoil spring make the rifle reliable with subsonic ammo.  Other than the 'scope protection offered by the buffer pin, these last two items have no bearing on accuracy.  The trigger job is an essential thing to bring out the best in all Rugers (and most other rifles) as they are usually set quite heavy at the factory for product liability protection in the USA.  The standard 10/22 trigger mechanism can be tuned to a crisp and reliable 2lbs by a person with the required skills and a thorough understanding of the many nuances of trigger mechanisms.  I can do such trigger jobs in 15 minutes, but then I have the benefit of having worked on thousands of 10/22's since my first one in 1966.  Over the years I did a large number of full custom 10/22's incorporating all of the ideas that are now touted by various aftermarket manufacturers as being the best thing since sliced bread, and they turned out very good but at a fairly high price.  I could tune the factory 10/22's to the same level of performance and did a vast number of them at $40 a pop.  If I could do them for that (and make good money at it) as recently as 4 years ago, then I am assuming that a suitably skilled young gunsmith today could achieve the same results for under $100 (or am I expecting too much to get under that price for 40 minutes work?).  Regarding the take-down barrel systems on the Sako Quad and the CZ455, they are both mechanically superior to the Ruger 10/22 system (subject to being correctly fitted by the shooter).   Rest assured that you, and your fellow enthusiasts that subscribe to the aftermarket parts syndrome, will continue to put a smile on retailers faces for years to come!  More power to your elbow!  In conclusion I must point out that the greatest contributing factor to the accurate performance of any rifle lies with the shooter.  I don't know of any rifle available new on the NZ market that is not capable of better performance (for its intended purpose) than most shooters are capable of achieving under normal conditions.  With the exception of specialised target rifles, .22 rimfire rifles are manufactured for the hunting of small game out to a maximum range of 100 metres (although most small game is taken at shorter ranges). A rifle capable of MOA performance will kill any small game at 100 metres in the right hands, and a tuned, but otherwise standard, 10/22 will certainly do that.  But hey, what do I know?  Now that I am retired from a successful 50 year career as a gunsmith and have managed to save a shilling, I buy aftermarket bits for my Corvette just because I like the look!  I am not able to drive it to its full potential.

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## Ultimitsu

You can certainly do fair amount of tinkering with any rifle and improve its accuracy, a lot of people do that with JW15. The lower end and the rougher the factory job, the more improvement potential for home jobs. 

However, to say that "it is not neccesary [sic] to spend a large amount of money on aftermarket parts for the 10/22 when [sic] *the same result*" is simply not true. There is no amount of work you can do to the factory barrel to bring it to the same level as a Kidd/Lilja/Whistlepig/Magnum Research barrel. If it did these companies would not have existed. Or olympic shooters would be shooting 50 USD ruger barrels, instead of 450 USD Lilja barrels. here is a test at *100 yards/91 metres*. KIDD does *0.261 MOA*  with real match ammo, and *0.481 MOA with CCI standard velocity*. Try that with a factory ruger.

As far as hunting goes, there are two different aspects of it. If you always shoot with a rest/bipod/stand, then you do not really need a very accurate rifle. a 1.5 inch/50 meters rifle will be good enough - so called "minute of rabbit". However if you shoot free hand all the time, and if your own hand introduces about 1.5 inches of spread at 50 meters, putting another 1.5 inches on top of that is too much. That is why some people like to have target shooting level accuracy in their hunting rifles. I am a hobbyist who shoot possums free hand 100% the time. 1/3 standing, 1/3 kneeling, 1/3 sitting. Factory ruger's accuracy does not cut it no matter how much work is put in.

To be sure, I do not advocate for tinkering 10/22 at all. My view has been explained in previous posts but I elaborate it again:

1. if you want to have an accurate rifle for the least amount of money and trouble, do not buy 10/22. buy marlin, cz452 or em332.
2. if you really want to play with a 10/22, buy the cheapest secondhand on trademe and stick with it as is. Personally I have never found the appeal of a normal factory 10/22. the new ones are fairly pricy for what you guy, not particularly handsome, and feels cheap with all the plastic parts.
3. if you want a *competition class* semi-auto, buy a full 3rd party 10/22 such as Kidd or Magnum Research.
4. it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy, you should buy after-market parts. Many after market parts are not necessary for accuracy purposes, only buffer, barrel and trigger are strictly speaking necessary.

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## timattalon

> 3. if you want a *competition class* semi-auto, buy a full 3rd party 10/22 such as Kidd or Magnum Research.
> 4. it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy, you should buy after-market parts. Many after market parts are not necessary for accuracy purposes, only buffer, barrel and trigger are strictly speaking necessary.


I would disagree in part with these two statements.

With regards to comment #3 "_if you want a competition class semi-auto_" I would suggest buy one that is not Ruger. The Kidd and the MR have replaced so much that they are really a new rifle with possibly a couple of cheap substitute Ruger parts added. (Think "Dads old Axe---New handle, third head and still in the same leather cover" 

And regarding comment #4  "_it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy,_" then the cheapest option is to trade it on another rifle that IS what you really want.

I like the Ruger 10/22 and the Ruger has an outstandingly practical design. Simple, effective and relatively easy to manufacture. If they are purchased for what they were designed and built for they work well (usually) and that is as a practical, simple semi auto 22 for doing what 22s do. They leave a lot of potential for improvement but if this happened ex factory they would be much much dearer and less available. Its almost like saying "I want a Porsche, so I'll buy a VW and tweak it with some Porsche parts.

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## Ultimitsu

> I would disagree in part with these two statements.
> 
> With regards to comment #3 "_if you want a competition class semi-auto_" I would suggest buy one that is not Ruger. The Kidd and the MR have replaced so much that they are really a new rifle with possibly a couple of cheap substitute Ruger parts added. (Think "Dads old Axe---New handle, third head and still in the same leather cover"


That is exactly what I said, KIDD and MagRes are not Ruger. the only ruger part is the mag.

Unless you are talking about buying non-10/22 design entirely. In that case I actually know of no other competition class semi-auto. CZ and Annie semi-auto both sort of suck.




> And regarding comment #4  "_it is ONLY if you already have a 10/22 and REALLY want to give it competition class accuracy,_" then the cheapest option is to trade it on another rifle that IS what you really want.


Well, it is not that simple. Because secondhand competition class semi-auto do not come up often. You sell your existing ruger you take a hit, then you may have to buy a new rifle. Not every part needs to be replaced. you can get away with just upgrading the barrel and trigger. If you are able to get your hands on Lilja barrels, you can get sporter contour and you can even stick to the existing stock. Or inlet the existing stock to fit bull barrel.





> I like the Ruger 10/22 and the Ruger has an outstandingly practical design. Simple, effective and relatively easy to manufacture. If they are purchased for what they were designed and built for they work well (usually) and that is as a practical, simple semi auto 22 for doing what 22s do. They leave a lot of potential for improvement but if this happened ex factory they would be much much dearer and less available.


Marlin owners will tell you that M60 and 795 are just as simple, effective, practical, but much more accurate ex-factory, and are cheaper. Several already expressed such view in this thread. I never shot a Marlin so I take no position in that debate.

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## andyanimal31

> That is exactly what I said, KIDD and MagRes are not Ruger. the only ruger part is the mag.
> 
> Unless you are talking about buying non-10/22 design entirely. In that case I actually know of no other competition class semi-auto. CZ and Annie semi-auto both sort of suck.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it is not that simple. Because secondhand competition class semi-auto do not come up often. You sell your existing ruger you take a hit, then you may have to buy a new rifle. Not every part needs to be replaced. you can get away with just upgrading the barrel and trigger. If you are able to get your hands on Lilja barrels, you can get sporter contour and you can even stick to the existing stock. Or inlet the existing stock to fit bull barrel.
> 
> 
> ...


exactly!
10/22 Pooze,

marlin model 60 deluxe rules!

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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## timattalon

> Marlin owners will tell you that M60 and 795 are just as simple, effective, practical, but much more accurate ex-factory, and are cheaper. Several already expressed such view in this thread. I never shot a Marlin so I take no position in that debate.


And there are , by all accounts, more marlins out there than Rugers so no disagreement from me. 

You are bang on about the Annie semi auto too from what I have seen and heard. 

The whole point is the 10/22 is designed and built to be a practical inexpensive carbine. It is not designed or spec'd to be a target rifle. Thus if someone wants a target grade rifle then this is not really what they are looking at.I have not handled a MagRes or a Kidd version so cannot say they are (or are not) that good, but those that I know who have one seem very happy with them and certainly seem to get good accuracy.

The only down side to these, that I have seen, is when people see a MR or Kidd at the range, (or a 10/22 that has had extensive upgrading to be really accurate) they recognize the 10/22 and most assume that all the 10/22s shoot this well because they have seen one do so then they go buy one and low and behold, it shoots like a 10/22 and they are disappointed.....

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## SiB

I bought my 10/22 because I wanted to run subsonic .22 ammo on bunnies where a measure of discretion was required.  I accepted the realities and limitations of both the calibre and the rifle. 

Target-rifle accuracy is not an expectation; misses are most frequently attributable to the shooter (me).

On the orchard where longer ranges are a reality and noise isn't a worry, I happily use my .22magnum. Much better accuracy. 

But nothing beats the fun of plinking a few tin cans for not much more than $10 for 50 rounds. 

I reckon I've got it right! 

And yes I've tarted up my 10/22 with a choate dragunov stock and intend to talk to @gundoc here about a wee tune-up to at least eliminate/minimise any rifle error whilst keeping it real. It's all fun!!!

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## Ultimitsu

> The whole point is the 10/22 is designed and built to be a practical inexpensive carbine. It is not designed or spec'd to be a target rifle. Thus if someone wants a target grade rifle then this is not really what they are looking at.
> ....


What tends to happen, and I have seen it happen quite a few times, is that ruger 10/22 often is the first gun for new licence holders. Either because their friends told them "10/22 is cool" or salesman recommended it. Either way, many start their shooting journey with a 10/22. They did not expect a competition class shooter but they also did not expect below par accuracy. Soon they found accuracy to be wanting, they start looking around for ways to improve. In fact, within this sub-forum you can see people asking about trigger, group, mods, etc. Isn't it ironic that more marlins are sold yet fewer marlinians are asking these questions?





> I have not handled a MagRes or a Kidd version so cannot say they are (or are not) that good, but those that I know who have one seem very happy with them and certainly seem to get good accuracy.


If you live in Auckland, you can go to waitakere sporting rifle club in swanson. at the least 3 to 4 shooters shoot Kidd. Including the NZ retailer Darin. I am sure they will be happy to demonstrate Kidd's accuracy to you. For enthusiast class target shooters in indoor 25 metre range, Kidd's performance is good as Anschutz's - ever so slight lesser accuracy but more shooter consistency.

MagRes is harder to come across. Guncity and Serious Shooters sold a few of them several years back, I have seen no other ones on the market. About one appear on trademe every 18 month or so (and usually not cheap). A friend of mine owns one. Overall quality is very close to Kidd, but the trigger is standard design and medium weight.

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## Tommy

> If you live in Auckland, you can go to waitakere sporting rifle club in swanson. at the least 3 to 4 shooters shoot Kidd. Including the NZ retailer Darin. I am sure they will be happy to demonstrate Kidd's accuracy to you. For enthusiast class target shooters in indoor 25 metre range, Kidd's performance is good as Anschutz's - ever so slight lesser accuracy but more shooter consistency.


Darin is a real GC too. I've used his rifle, and it is scary nice. Like a laser. I was doing groups of 5 in a breath, it was unreal fun. If I was to get into that sort of shooting proper-like, I'd just save myself all the running around and throw a roll of cash at him and end up better off than fucking around trying to make one from a factory offering. You'd literally end up binning pretty much the whole rifle, so why bother?




> Soon they found accuracy to be wanting, they start looking around for ways to improve. In fact, within this sub-forum you can see people asking about trigger, group, mods, etc. Isn't it ironic that more marlins are sold yet fewer marlinians are asking these questions?


The marlin semi (takes various model names of course) has outsold the 10/22 twice over worldwide, it's just here that it's the other way around for some reason

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## 10-Ring

> The marlin semi (takes various model names of course) has outsold the 10/22 twice over worldwide, it's just here that it's the other way around for some reason


You're dead right about that.

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## gadgetman

> Isn't it ironic that more marlins are sold yet fewer marlinians are asking these questions?


Ummmm. No it is not ironic. I think you have completely missed the point. Other than putting a lighter trigger return spring in, or maybe an after market spring kit for about $50 then you don't need to. The Marlin does what it should straight from the factory. It doesn't have a massive array of after market parts available because it doesn't need them to do what it should. Unlike the 10/22, unless you send it to a craftsman like @gundoc.

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## Ultimitsu

> Ummmm. No it is not ironic. I think you have completely missed the point. Other than putting a lighter trigger return spring in, or maybe an after market spring kit for about $50 then you don't need to. The Marlin does what it should straight from the factory. It doesn't have a massive array of after market parts available because it doesn't need them to do what it should. Unlike the 10/22, unless you send it to a craftsman like @gundoc.


Errr...I think *you missed my point* . What you wrote is exactly my point. Factory Marlins are better than factory Rugers, hence the need for Ruger owners to do mids and upgrades. My post was directed at timattalon's post about Ruger's appeal being "(it is) an outstandingly practical design. Simple, effective and relatively easy to manufacture". I was saying Marlins are just as good in these aspects plus being cheaper and more accurate - hence my comment about "the irony".

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## 223nut

So this thread has morphed from good ideas for playing with a 10/22 to a marlin vs ruger shitfight.... Cut it out kids

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## stretch

Holden vs Ford.

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## 223nut

> Holden vs Ford.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk


Both are cars and should get you from a to b

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## andyanimal31

> So this thread has morphed from good ideas for playing with a 10/22 to a marlin vs ruger shitfight.... Cut it out kids


it's raining here and I'm bored!


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## Milan501



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## gundoc

For a cheap rifle (the main reason so many have been sold) the Marlins are OK but far from trouble-free.  Their most common problem is misfiring after they are a couple of years old.  The design is such that the very small mainspring is very highly stressed and loses power if it is left cocked.  It is always a good idea to 'ease springs' on all firearms when they are stored to prevent spring set.  Unlike the 10/22, The Marlin M60 trigger mechanism is a fiddly thing to work on with lots of fine bent wire spring and dinky wee circlips.  The barrels are press-fitted into a die-cast receiver and retained with a cross pin and, provided this join is not tampered with or bent in any way, will hold good alignment. Of the two rifles, having worked on them both for many years, I much prefer the considerably more rugged manufacture of the Ruger.

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## SiB

It's interesting learning about the character, or quirks of our rifles. I'm sure the Marlin owners will be equally interested in learning more about theirs, and others choices and tweaks. 

And that's the point; let's learn about what we own, or choose not to own! Let's simply avoid the  "my rifle is better than yours" statements. In an ideal situation we could all go out and shoot some paper and have a load of fun. Let's maintain that focus!!!

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## Beaker

I used to shoot target 22, and had all the stuff - custom jacket, blinder, flappy hat, custom bullet block, etc.... when I stopped , was shooting somewhere 97 to 99.6-7. Sometimes better (Never got a 100.10.... :Sad:  )
Ansultz, eley tenix ammo etc...
So I think I know wee bit on making me shoot OK on a paper target and rim fire.


So history aside, when I came back to NZ and got licence etc... I brought a 10/22. Main reason was for having a rifle for fun. I might have been a bit lucky on the one I got, but stock it shot OK, then after a bit of a polish with the dremal and some autosolv, bloody good - not single shot prone target rifle, but what I would consider bloody good. Yes could go and get kidd stuff, replace this and that, but if I was after a 22 that at 20/25 yards could bang one on top of each shot, I wouldn't buy a 10/22 or a jw. But I also wouldn't through it in the car/truck, not clean it that much,  or wear what ever and shoot it.

Horses for courses.

If you can offer your tips to make the 10/22 more accurate, offer them up.
Mine -
-polish all the friction surfaces
- use a torque wrench when putting back together (same every time)
- work out the range for cleaning. Ie does it need 5-10 shots after cleaning to get back on zero etc.... and drops after 100-200 shots
- not for accuracy, but useablity , do the bolt release mode ( chainsaw file I think it was)
- and try a few different ammos. Mine likes CCI subs.....

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## hunt_fish

The auto bolt release mod is so easy and makes it so much better to use!


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## sako75

Keeping it standard apart from a recoil buffer.
Also have a plastic slide on silencer and run CCI subs

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## quentin

> Keeping it standard apart from a recoil buffer.
> Also have a plastic slide on silencer and run CCI subs
> 
> Attachment 61931


Length of pull seems about right for junior. First thing I did was get rid of the stock as it was too short, and having a chin weld vs a cheek weld when using a scope took some getting used to.

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## planenutz

> PS.  ALL extended mag release catches make it easier to lose your mags!  Press the standard button up with your left (or right if you are sinister) third finger and the mag will drop into your hand while your other hand retains control of the rifle.


I should have listened to you. 

I purchased one of these the other day:



I figured this would be the ducks guts as it sits in close to the trigger guard and I THOUGHT it would be a good way to prevent accidental magazine release. Boy was I wrong. I went for a walk last night with my daughter and both of us managed to eject the magazine accidently - and on more than one occasion. Bugger. 

So it looks like I'm going back to 'PLAN A', which was to find an original "flush" magazine release. If anyone has one they would like to sell me, let me know.

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## 223nut

> I should have listened to you. 
> 
> I purchased one of these the other day:
> 
> Attachment 62042
> 
> I figured this would be the ducks guts as it sits in close to the trigger guard and I THOUGHT it would be a good way to prevent accidental magazine release. Boy was I wrong. I went for a walk last night with my daughter and both of us managed to eject the magazine accidently - and on more than one occasion. Bugger. 
> 
> So it looks like I'm going back to 'PLAN A', which was to find an original "flush" magazine release. If anyone has one they would like to sell me, let me know.


God to know, saw these and was tempted but found a different model lying in the parts draw, should have the flush one somewhere but no idea where I will have put that!

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## Gerbs

> I should have listened to you. 
> 
> I purchased one of these the other day:
> 
> Attachment 62042
> 
> I figured this would be the ducks guts as it sits in close to the trigger guard and I THOUGHT it would be a good way to prevent accidental magazine release. Boy was I wrong. I went for a walk last night with my daughter and both of us managed to eject the magazine accidently - and on more than one occasion. Bugger. 
> 
> So it looks like I'm going back to 'PLAN A', which was to find an original "flush" magazine release. If anyone has one they would like to sell me, let me know.


I think I do - and I'll buy that extended release from you.
I've used that particular one on my rifle for a couple years and never lost a mag

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## 223nut

Any tips and tricks to loosen up the mag in the mag well? Since mines got the screw at rear of receiver fitting into the stock the mags don't want to drop out under gravity and need to be yanked out or shaken. Any it's or is it just a good excuse to go from the standard 10round to a 15 so there's something to grab to pull it out and a bit more weight

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## 223nut

Also discovered my safety is a bitch to flick off, push partway push back to safe then push all he way to fire. Is it possible that it has rotated somehow? Anyone tried putting a left-handed safety in? If I'm going to take it to bits I might chuck a more appropriate part back in

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## swellacott

where do you get the flush magazine releases from? My partner and myself have lost a magazine each  :Sad:

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## 223nut

> where do you get the flush magazine releases from? My partner and myself have lost a magazine each


Have brought a few things of a guy on trade me, alladinz or something good to deal with.

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## planenutz

> where do you get the flush magazine releases from? My partner and myself have lost a magazine each


When you find out, let us know. I lost a mag last week and I'm still pissed about it.

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## gundoc

Just cut the extension tongue off the latest factory catches, pretty it up with a file and sandpaper, and you have a flush mag release.  End of problem!  Tight magazines need dressing a little on the 4 vertical corners.  A 1mm 45 degree chamfer cut with a sharp chisel will do the trick.

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## 223nut

> Just cut the extension tongue off the latest factory catches, pretty it up with a file and sandpaper, and you have a flush mag release.  End of problem!  Tight magazines need dressing a little on the 4 vertical corners.  A 1mm 45 degree chamfer cut with a sharp chisel will do the trick.


My problem isn't the mags it's the mag well as its only occurred since I had the bolt put in the receiver, has aimed the barrel up a bit, suspect that's why my safety doesn't work as well. Will try your idea of altering mags

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## planenutz

My daughter Mikayla (12) was doing ok with the standard rifle but I noted the difficulty she was having with the standing shots. 



Her smaller frame meant it was difficult to shoulder the rifle correctly so a change was needed. I purchased an old beat-up wooden stock off TM for SFA and set about making some changes. I don't like the standard stocks much at all so anything was going to look better than what I had.

First I trimmed about 2" off the back. By chance this worked out to be about perfect. I cleaned up the butt and using my best wood-working skills plus some cursing and swearing, got the plastic protection to fit. 


Next I trimmed a bit of meat off the fore end of the stock. The primary reason for doing this was to make it easier for smaller hands to hold on to. I based the shape on a Winchester M70 Featherweight I have. Mikki indicated this change was an excellent one and she can now hold the fore end much easier. I guess it might have reduced the weight a bit too, although bugger all. I drilled a bit of meat out of the butt of the stock too. While I was there I made sure the barrel was floating correctly in the channel too.







After a bit of sanding, some good ol' fashion elbow grease, a few coats of Birchwood Casey Stock Varnish, more elbow grease and finally some TLC, the finished article was handed over for field trials. It was an instant hit - no pun intended. Funny enough, Mikayla now refers to this as "her gun". Hmmmm. 

Without checkering on the stock I thought the rifle was looking a little... bland. I wanted to tart it up but I don't even know how to use a chisel, let alone own one. I mulled over the options but left it alone for a few months. When my son was given a craft set for Christmas I noted the small "V" chisel inside the box and the brain started churning out ideas. With no skills and very little appreciation for the time and effort involved I set to. I now believe those guys in European factories who do this as a day job need to be paid more.

The final result was rough enough for the money I got paid and Mikki is rapt with the new addition. 







Next stop - the local Marae. Maybe I can whip up a bit of carving for the Wharenui.

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## gadgetman

Being the cheap bugger I am, I used to fashion the V carving tools out of umbrella ribs, and tickle them up on the bench grinder.

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## gonetropo

the number one improvement is a good trigger job, then a plastic buffer pin. then get rid of that dovetail base and put a weaver base and rings on

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## planenutz

> the number one improvement is a good trigger job, then a plastic buffer pin. then get rid of that dovetail base and put a weaver base and rings on


...done the trigger job - it's very nice now... plastic buffer was done years ago. Suppose the Weaver base is next then.

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## timattalon

> ...done the trigger job - it's very nice now... plastic buffer was done years ago. Suppose the Weaver base is next then.


And they cost bugger all....

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## marky123

Pewpewpew!!

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## The bomb

Reviving an old post as I have just got a 10/22 and looking for any tips on accurizing it.

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## dogmatix

> Reviving an old post as I have just got a 10/22 and looking for any tips on accurizing it.


Kidd part upgrades!
Contact Darin at https://www.usaguns.nz/index.php?rt=index/home

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## dogmatix

PS mine.

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## The bomb

Have just bedded the first 2 in of the barrel and floated the rest,relieved the barrel band so its not touching and might get a bx trigger from gun city,the one in it seems to have been worked on but has a lot of creep before preasure comes on,nice and light from there though.gonna put the Kahles 2-7 on it an see what se can do.

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## The bomb

Cycles CCI suppressor ammo well so all others should work as well,nice and quiet but they don’t kill well..shot a couple of hares the over night and even though neck shot and down they still needed follow up shots,usedpowergpoint*as thelasgewgin the mag and once hit with them it was lights out immediately.

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## Ranger 888

Got to agree with Gundoc....best mod. ever is porting the barrel and installing a full length overbarrel suppressor. The only noise is the bolt recycling. I will consistently flatten 3 or 4 bunnies  ( or magpies) before the others get wise to what's happening.

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## The bomb

Seemed to work @ 50m..mucking with the torque on the screw helped as well as completely removing the barrel band.[ATTACH]132108[/ATTACH

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## The bomb

All set up ready for action

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## csmiffy

> And they cost bugger all....


Try conetrol bases and rings.
Got the rings for used price and I think the base fits something else (maybe) from Richard Wilhelm when I got it early 90's.
Not as cheap as weaver but I was happy with the coin at the time

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## BR46

Is this a stock Ruger 10/22 trigger group? 
Just bought a used 10/22 takedown, took it out to the range and it was performing well - I was expecting the trigger to feel horrible after reading about the stock one being rubbish - but to be honest it didn't feel much different to the timney unit I've got in my standard 10/22 (bought it with that so have never tried a stock one) 
I looked at some pics and notice they don't seem to have the grub screw like this one so am wondering if it's had some work - or maybe I'm just too much of a neanderthal to notice the subtleties of a lighter vs heavier trigger pull!?

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