# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  Help design the NZHS Forum Wildcat - Part 3 - Case

## Spanners

Alrighty - the masses have spoken, and we have a 7mm on a  short action.

What case to run it on?

Keep in mind that it needs to be mag length - preferably std; say Rem 700?
So if 162 Amax or 180 VLD is on the cards, you dont want it to be 1/2 way into the case - which is not an issue as the case can be shortened to suit. 
 I know - its starting to stretch out from the ~200yds that the initial spec was for, but it seems that the masses want something that might reach out a bit further - hence the 7mm.

Once we have a few ideas that people are agreeing with, will go to a Poll, and see what we get.

So my suggestion, is a 284 case, shortened so that at mag length, a 162 Amax or 168 VLD is correctly positioned in the neck ie not poking out past the junction, and Ackley improved a bit

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## 7mmsaum

SAUM with a Linda Lovelace throat.

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## Terminator

> SAUM with a Linda Lovelace throat.


Trouble is you can't really call it a wildcat?

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## 7mmsaum

> Trouble is you can't really call it a wildcat?


Change the shoulder angle from 30deg to 40 or 45 deg and I promise you can call it anything you like. :Thumbsup:

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## 7mmsaum

Ok OK I see your point.

338 Norma mag brass shortened to 2.035 inch, necked to 7mm.   Dead deer.

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## tui_man2

How many are going to use this as a chambering? or is it just to keep bit of talk going?

shortening cases an pluffing round gets to piss you off after awhile ifs a bit of work

if wanted short blown out magnum, wouldnt the 243wssm case be easyest? maybe chamber little deeper to shift the shoulder forward a little for more powder, get redding bushind dies an drill the top of the body die an presto :Thumbsup:

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## Shootm

> So my suggestion, is a 284 case, shortened so that at mag length, a 162 Amax or 168 VLD is correctly positioned in the neck ie not poking out past the junction, and Ackley improved a bit


Now your talking, this has my vote :Wink: 

The SAUM is pretty common now.

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## Spanners

> How many are going to use this as a chambering? or is it just to keep bit of talk going?
> 
> shortening cases an pluffing round gets to piss you off after awhile ifs a bit of work
> 
> if wanted short blown out magnum, wouldnt the 243wssm case be easyest? maybe chamber little deeper to shift the shoulder forward a little for more powder, get redding bushind dies an drill the top of the body die an presto


You only have to form/shorten a case once  :Grin: 
A 243 WSSM will is 223 length  - fits in an AR
If you push the shoulder forward there is no neck

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## Cyclist

> You only have to form/shorten a case once 
> A 243 WSSM will is 223 length  - fits in an AR
> If you push the shoulder forward there is no neck


have you seen a .30 wolfpup?
so a 7-243WSSM-PUP (perhaps throw in a parabolic shoulder for shits?) would pretty well fill the action and be about as wild as a cat can get? and totally random to the max :Zomg: 

http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/stanpup05x600.jpg

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## Spanners

WTF is that monstrosity??  :Zomg: 

Thats horrible - can/does it actually shoot or is it a piss take?

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## P38

Isnt 7mm the metric equivilent of 284"?  :Wut: 

So unless the case is shortened then whats the point.

I can see a committee designed Race Horse comming out looking like Dwarf Camel.

And of course the 6mm-284 wildcat has already been done with some very good results especially for long range varminting.

I can see merit in a shortened 284 case capacity wise, Benchrest boys will tell you "Short and Fat is where it's at".

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## Spanners

7mm = 284 ya

My idea is a case the right length for a SA, with more poke than a 7-08 but not quite a 'magnum'
A case 'designed' to suit the package around it

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## tui_man2

> You only have to form/shorten a case once 
> A 243 WSSM will is 223 length  - fits in an AR
> If you push the shoulder forward there is no neck


once till the brass is fucked after so warm firings then all over again :15 8 212:  :36 1 8: 

you have neck still im talking 2.5mm 3mm tops bump forward an have long throat reamer to have them hanging out to use the whole case

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## The Claw

Short SAUM...

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## tui_man2

> Short SAUM...
> 
> Attachment 974Attachment 975


iv seen this john done it to get rond the small mag box im his modle 7? cool looking round shortened by .200"

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## The Claw

Yep thats the one. Gives a loaded round at 2.795 with amax seated to the lands and boat-tail at the neck/shoulder junction

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## Spanners

> Short SAUM...
> 
> Attachment 974Attachment 975


Snap!
I was going to post the same pics but was on phone   :Have A Nice Day:

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## Normie

I vote .284 Win case shortened to say 47/48mm no improved shoulder necessary.

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## Terminator

The short saum has been used for quite a while now in the F class world is it really something new?

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## shaka

> 7mm = 284 ya
> 
> My idea is a case the right length for a SA, with more poke than a 7-08 but not quite a 'magnum'
> A case 'designed' to suit the package around it


this is what i want to do . i had a talk with mr duley before this thread started and this was what we came up with.im just waiting on a price to do this to my sako.

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## leathel

would you need to shorten the SAUM? extend the mag box a bit .... shorten the neck a tad blow it out parrallel with a sharper shoulder and get very close to WSM capacity in a shorter case..

or the short 284... but its allready pretty parallel and has a pretty sharp shoulder so not too much modded...not cool enough  :Psmiley: 

Or utilize the small primer 308 brass, blow it out shorten the neck.... look a bit different to std then

or just neck it down to 7-08 and it will do the job  :Wtfsmilie: 

still like the 338 better  :Grin:

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## sneeze

The more I read this the more I see an ugly twin  of  the 7mm08  getting born :TT TT: .Still a bit of fun though :Thumbsup:

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## DAF

> still like the 338 better


I must admin I like the idea of a 338/375 or 416 SAUM, I can't see that freight train of a projectile stopping for much  :Thumbsup:

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## Spanners

338 SAUM = ~338RCM?

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## DAF

> 338 SAUM = ~338RCM?


Yea, actually looks pretty close

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## leathel

> 338 SAUM = ~338RCM?


.532 RCM (just above the rim) vs .550 SAUM (300)
.516 RCM VS .5357 at the shoulder
1.568 to shoulder RCM vs 1.5383 
same OAL

Use the SAUM but push the shoulder forward and 40 deg and it would be quite a step up from the RCM in capacity  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Pop Shot

> this is what i want to do . i had a talk with mr duley before this thread started and this was what we came up with.im just waiting on a price to do this to my sako.


Be interested to hear how you get on with this... almost sounds like my ideal setup. Not sure if I have the need for bigger magnum.

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## Normie

> Be interested to hear how you get on with this... almost sounds like my ideal setup. Not sure if I have the need for bigger magnum.


Yeah me too.

I suppose we'll know once the NZHS Wildcat is done. It seems that majority are going with this theme.

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## paddygonebush

.284 shortened with the improved shoulder... 40degrees?

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## Normie

So do we have a consensus on this yet? It seems .284 Win case shortened and either improved or not. I vote not improved, might have feeding issues then.

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## Spanners

Looks that way.
Will suss it out next week if no major changes

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## 7mmsaum

> .284 shortened with the improved shoulder... 40degrees?


Sounds good Paddy,  Run a .534 head dia and .550 body dia down to .535 where the 30 deg shoulder starts at 1.538 inches in length. Use the total brass length to 2.035 so you have a nice long neck.
Sounds like the ideal .284 to me.  :Thumbsup:

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## tonka

So hows  is making the dies for this?
Have you looked on the PTG website?
Ther is heaps of different cals on there
They will have already have done this i would think
Tonka

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## LJP

Sounds interesting boys - May be a rechamber job on the horizon for my 7mm08  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Normie

> I will chamber a rifle in it. 
> 
> Not only that, stock designs piss me off. Half the dimensions are hangovers from when opensights were the norm! The common "american style" design does not handle recoil well, does not line up with a scope well. 
> 
> I suggest we rough out a stock design  (which I recently discovered is easy) and send it to Senator to get made out of carbon fibre. Chose an action, barrel contour, etc etc and we have a NZHS Custom. We can argue about the optimum rifle construction for months. Am I getting ahead of myself? I see a batch of Howa actions and true flight ultramatches in the offing. Make an affordable super capable NZ rifle.


I like this idea as well. Could be an idea for a group buy rifle?

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## geezejonesy

anything built yet   ? pics to show where u r up too ??
i ve no idea what u r  building , a small anti tank gun?   :Psmiley:

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## sneeze

> Any chance we can source .284 brass sans primer pocket and give it a small rifle primer pocket like the fantastic 6.5x47Lapua. It would be a very very cool round. And very much unique.


I read a reply from a lapua rep a while ago regarding using small primers, they where having some issues with consistent ignition with heavier charges and even using the .308 palma brass necked down to other cals had some associated problems

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## Kiwi Greg

> I read a reply from a lapua rep a while ago regarding using small primers, they where having some issues with consistent ignition with heavier charges and even using the .308 palma brass necked down to other cals had some associated problems


I used them on my 708 project but gave up on them.
They gave less speed than regular large pocket 308 Lapua brass for the same charge & I couldn't get the speed back by increasing the charge as the CCI 450s would pierce before the 250s would.
I also tried brs, 400s & small federals as well...
Admittedly I was running them hard, but the large pocket would cope happily while the small primer simply couldn't match the speed.

I was running up to 2900fps with the 180 hybrids  :Cool: 

Over 2900 the brass couldn't cope reliably  :ORLY: 

* This was a special build with a long barrel & target action, so don't try this in your Tikka, etc .....*

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## Normie

> Or group buy components. You can get batches of Howa actions cheap, and they are nice actions. Finalize a design and specifications on here, source the components and have someone build them all.  
> 
> The NZHS custom in NZHS Wildcat. It would be a collectors item!


Exactly what I was thinking. Howa's are a great idea. After all they're Sako's, just made in Japan.  :Thumbsup: 

Specs would need to be the same for all rifles to make it work I think.

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## Cyclist

Small primers are a BR conception to get rid of the last poofteenth of vertical (es) - i.e reducing the percentage of charge variation due to primer inconsistency by having a smaller amount of primer charge

I dont think a hunting rifle based on a Howa is going to need this level of pfaff?  I dont want inconsistent ignition in a hunting rifle!

Would be effin cool to have a mainly NZ built rifle on sale though - be even minter if someone could convince Barnard to do a run of stainless actions (or Ti  :Wink: )

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## Normie

Barnards would be nice but they're pricey as well as being heavy. I think if the NZHS rifle was to be built it would need to be affordable for most and practical too.

My thoughts on specs are:
Howa stainless short action
TrueFlite #3 or #4 at 22" (flutes?)
Senator Carbon or McMillan Sako hunter Edge stock
standard Howa bottom metal and trigger but tuned to 2lbs or so.

One of the good smiths could be approached to see if they'd be keen to do it or not.

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## Normie

> I think we should start a thread. It should definitely be a Senator. NZ made components wherever possible. Some variation on Sako 75 stock shape. Or just Sako 75 shape. Im sending mine to get moulded. 
> 
> I agree. Affordable, and practical.
> 
> We should design or source a good rail. I think using one company (GW?) we could get a good price. Suppressed too I think. Pre-order, then bulk buy. Formalize the specifications and make the optimal kiwi rifle. Once the NZHS wildcat has its dies and reamer sorted, we can get look into a source for the rifle parts.


Yep. Sounds good?

Would other people be interested in this? For it to work/be profitable for the chosen smith maybe a ten gun minimum?

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## Smiddy

Just thought I'd say there's a member on here very capible of building this

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## distant stalker

> Or group buy components. You can get batches of Howa actions cheap, and they are nice actions. Finalize a design and specifications on here, source the components and have someone build them all.  
> 
> The NZHS custom in NZHS Wildcat. It would be a collectors item!


Like the sound of that, do they do a left handed one?

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## Kitto

Waitaki engineering do a good rail too, got one for my tikka for $80 IIRC. Could be an option if we want to spread business around

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## tui_man2

Whats happening with thes? has it gone any firther?

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## Spanners

Will do when i get hm

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## tui_man2

> Will do when i get hm


what was the end desison?

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## 7mmsaum

> what was the end desison?


Tui_man2,
               Im also interested in the end decision , Id choose something that handles well and fits like a glove, is light, and powerful -with precision.

Senator stock in Sako 75 exterior dimensions
Model 7 action (ssrnz.co.nz clone)
22" TF
ssrnz.co.nz 3 lever Trigger
Terminator Products T2 Muzzle brake (optional) same thread fits suppressor (also optional)
Calibre 7mmsaum 


 :Thumbsup:

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## Grant

I could suggest a good barrel ........ :Pacman:

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## Normie

I bet you could.  :Wink:  Does that mean you would be keen on a group buy type/NZHS rifle thingy?

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## distant stalker

I'm pretty interested if we go the group buy way, would need to choose an action that has left handed options though...

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## Grant

> I bet you could.  Does that mean you would be keen on a group buy type/NZHS rifle thingy?


Sure, we'll sort something out.......

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## Titanium

I have been trying to decide what to build along these same lines so am interested to see how this goes.Is it worth doing a group buy until the rifle has been tested.Im wondering how it will feed as ive told that there can be a few issues when using this sort of brass.Ive already got a barrel and stock and have been trying to decide whether or not a short action is going to limit me so am all ears on this project.

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## Spanners

Its going to go ahead.
Will be sorting some more details while I'm away for this next contract and will try and get a reamer price and form dies etc sorted

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## Terminator

> Its going to go ahead.
> Will be sorting some more details while I'm away for this next contract and will try and get a reamer price and form dies etc sorted



So what is the new case going to be? :O O:

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## NZVarminter

I looked at a short 284, but you need to push the shoulder back 0.25 to get similar cap as 308. So capacity somewhere between 284 and 308 would work. Problem is you will want to use Lapua 6.5*284 brass, and Lapua brass has a thicker shoulder thckness compared ot the neck, so when you push the shoulder back you will be forming the neck out of shoulder material and need to neck turn to remove the "donut"

I dont beleive SAUM brass has variations in wall thickness, but htne your usign a mag boltface.

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## yerimaginaryM8

here's what I did 7mm saum shortened 200 thou. I wanted to shoot one bullet (162 amax at 2800 or so) and I wanted it to feed out of the mag of my model 7 and easily reach the lands. Its been a major learning curve, with heaps of unforseen issues along the way,  but I'm nearly there. 


Big thanks to Mitch Maxbury who sorted the rifle and gave lots of useful advice and encouragement and Greg Duley who I also pestered. The history and some of the headaches are covered in here, here and here on another forum. Knowing what i now know, learned the hard way I would do things a little differently if I was to do it again.

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## Shootm

Spanners.....So where is this at?
Has it died? 
Or is it still a going?

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## 7mmsaum

Shootm, perhaps he's internalising a really complicated situation in his head "what S/A wildcat is better than a SAUM"  :Thumbsup:

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## Spanners

'Cant eat your ghost chips bro.....'

I need to get back in NZ and settled and place some orders for bits.
I've only been in NZ 10 weeks this year - sometimes for no more than 1 or 2 days.

Have a heap of stuff landing when I get back, so once I've moved and settled in, will sort something.

Its on my list of 'shit to do'

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## Shootm

Sweet as just wondering :Cool:

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## robhughes-games

very interested in where this is going. especially if there are options to use reamer and just buy an extra set of dies. or if the stock can be left of since i will just make my own carbon one. Stug also makes carbon stocks.

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## 7mmsaum

> very interested in where this is going. especially if there are options to use reamer and just buy an extra set of dies. or if the stock can be left of since i will just make my own carbon one. Stug also makes carbon stocks.


Have you any pictures of your carbon fibre stocks robhughes ?

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## NZVarminter

if you go with a hower action your excluding all us left hander. If your looking at 10-20 actions, the go a full custom like Stiller Predator so left hand is an option. The other action to consider for those looking for "light" weigfht is the extreame as they do a Rem 700 clone in Titanium...but not yet in left hand!@#$

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## Bill999

the sooner you left handers learn to shoot with your right side the better, there is a reason it is called your right side. 
bunch of bloody hipsters "oh shooting right handed is sooo mainstream"

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## 7mmsaum

> So what is the new case going to be?


408 Cheytac or Viersco Mag shortened to SAUM length

It can then be 6.5mm, 7mm, 30 cal, 338 cal, 375 cal  if any of us so desires.

Bruce Bertram can make the brass for us.

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## crnkin

Seen it, looks awesome  :Have A Nice Day: 

Chris

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## sneeze

You mean this one? Yes it does look good  :Thumbsup: 
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...ytac-mag-5455/

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## crnkin

Yep  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Spanners

I dont get it, other than 'because you can'??

You have to go to a big custom action to run it, and if you were going to do to a big custom, then why not run a full length one and get more performance?

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## veitnamcam

Im confused, i thought this was a 200 meter cartridge?
Big slow pill 338 fed etc, maybe 338 saum?

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## tui_man2

> I dont get it, other than 'because you can'??
> 
> You have to go to a big custom action to run it, and if you were going to do to a big custom, then why not run a full length one and get more performance?


Who said anything about a 'big' custom action??

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2

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## Spanners

Its a custom action given the case size..
Which will be heavier than a say a Rem 700 LA (must be to maintain similar to greater hoop stresses)
It shoots a bullet the same as many other cases which fit in say Rem 700 actions and same or less capacity, thus same/less performance

As I said prior - I dont get it
I understand the 'because you can' and if thats not the reason,  you're having to use a custom action for case which is better than what? and you are achieving what?
Seems like square peg in round hole situation, and getting a new gold plated hole instead of a wooden peg to suit

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## Toby

Is this a real build or just talk still? If it is a build could you show pictures along the way

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## Ground Control

Use the 6mmBR or 30BR case , take your pick of calibers . Maybe use .311 like the 303 ( that caliber is ingrained in NZ and Aussie culture ) Depending on the barrel twist chosen then you could drive lighter bullets fast enough out of that case to knock over most things in NZ out to 200yrds ( look up the 30BR's ballistics it is very effient and pushes 110-120gn bullets quite quick ), but it could also be used sub sonic with heavier bullets .
Sort of a short 303 without the trouble of the rim .

Ken

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## Smiddy

16inch bbl 338 saum

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## Spanners

> 16inch bbl 338 saum


My ears hurt!

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## Toby

Can you suppress a .338? or would the size make it pointless in having a short bush gun?

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## Smiddy

16in 338 saum, suppressed, 160gr ttsx, bring it on

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## Smiddy

yes i think weve found it, bush hunting is easy with 20in bbl,  4 inch forward suppressor

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## veitnamcam

> Im confused, i thought this was a 200 meter cartridge?
> Big slow pill 338 fed etc, maybe 338 saum?
> 
> Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2


?

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## leathel

> 16in 338 saum, suppressed, 160gr ttsx, bring it on


If i wasn't short staffed ATM mine would have been built already.... but I will start with a 20" barrel no can.

The way things are going with people crashing all over the show it might be 6 months before I get the time..... or 1 month. People don't tend to book in their crashes  :Psmiley:

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## L.R

> Its a custom action given the case size..
> Which will be heavier than a say a Rem 700 LA (must be to maintain similar to greater hoop stresses)
> It shoots a bullet the same as many other cases which fit in say Rem 700 actions and same or less capacity, thus same/less performance
> 
> As I said prior - I dont get it
> I understand the 'because you can' and if thats not the reason,  you're having to use a custom action for case which is better than what? and you are achieving what?
> Seems like square peg in round hole situation, and getting a new gold plated hole instead of a wooden peg to suit


Spanners, you are making assumptions about something you know nothing about. The action we are using is lighter than a s/s LA 700 and also has some other benefits. You are pushing your luck driving a 300gr pill at 3100fps with any case in a rem action.

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## Spanners

> Spanners, you are making assumptions about something you know nothing about. The action we are using is lighter than a s/s LA 700 and also has some other benefits. You are pushing your luck driving a 300gr pill at 3100fps with any case in a rem action.


You'd be surprised what I know  :ORLY:  There are a couple of people around that hop over the fence regularly.

An action lighter than a 700 SA but bigger and stronger - mind posting up the finite analysis model for interests sake? (which you surely must have done?)

There are hundreds if not thousands of Lapua Improveds chambered in 700s - I know of at least 3 reamers floating around NZ which get a bit of use
338 Edge +P... both those example with do the above on a 700
Round counts in 100 of thousands? through those actions around the world would suggest other wise.. wheres all the failure reports and pics?
Let alone the clones both aftermarket and factory like McMillan etc

Couple of months ago you couldn't push XX pill at YY speed because of pressure - but now it possible??  :X X:

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## L.R

The action is designed for the cheytac case,there are other materials in the world other than stainless and Crome steels.  You think you know but really know fuck all!

We do not need to exceed 70k psi to get that velocity. 

I would own a lap imp on a 700 myself, all I'm saying is they are getting pushed to the limits and the rounds don't fit nicely in them either. There is a reason all the Rem clones for lapua cases are bigger in diameter and lug size than the rem action, not the same as you suggest.

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## Normie

This is an interesting wildcat. I like the idea a lot. Non magnum Short action 6.5 getting 3k. Almost too good to be true. Worth a read.

New 6.5 Idea - Long Range Hunting Online Magazine

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## L.R

To good to be true alright. Shorten a 284 case reduce capacity lower pressures and increase velocity, I don't think so.

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## Normie

Seems it works though. They got 3040 something with RL17

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## Toby

So whats happening with this now?

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## Steveh054

> So whats happening with this now?


Lots of excited replies for your question Toby

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## distant stalker

Think it requires spanners being in the country more than 5 minutes at a time for there to.be some progress

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## Spanners

I've been holding off finishing the order as have been waiting for the prints for the 44 Claymore reamer
Just heard from him with the bullshit excuse that can't give them to me because of ITAR
What a fucking load of shit, there are reamer prints all over the net and on the reamer makers website

I'm home next week, so will draw the 44 up myself and get it in with the 7mm

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## Toby

Have you found a 44 barrel?

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## Spanners

I told you I have the barrels covered  :Have A Nice Day: 
Read and let the info soak in  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Toby

Shit. Well thats good then. I started making plans for a .260ai because I couldnt find a 44. But nevermind back to 44 which is good.

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## R93

> Shit. Well thats good then. I started making plans for a .260ai because I couldnt find a 44. But nevermind back to 44 which is good.


You have to be slightly challenged to run/own a .260 AI Toby. If you walk up a city street, and just have to touch every parking meter, you may just start to qualify. :Wink:

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## Toby

> You have to be slightly challenged


I thought it was clear I was

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## Neckshot

> You have to be slightly challenged to run/own a .260 AI Toby. If you walk up a city street, and just have to touch every parking meter, you may just start to qualify.


Must have a accasional fat girl oiled up fetish,cant take your self to seriously either other wise don't call your self a kiwi bloke who likes more than just the mainstream cal's, but I cant say to much as im not cut out for shooting!!!.

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## R93

I will admit to being challenged, but I have never been in to fat chicks like you Neckers......oily or not :Grin:

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## veitnamcam

> You have to be slightly challenged to run/own a .260 AI Toby. If you walk up a city street, and just have to touch every parking meter, you may just start to qualify.


Its just a bit worse than 6mm08 eh  :Wink:  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## R93

No Cam, it is not. Your sexual persuation has to be questioned owning any 6mm. :Wink:  I would just rather be retarded :Grin:

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## veitnamcam

:Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Neckshot

> No Cam, it is not. Your sexual persuation has to be questioned owning any 6mm. I would just rather be retarded


so what dose borrowing a 6mm  for years make you?????.................bi retarded :Grin:  swinger :Thumbsup: .I know your mates have a cruel sense of humor as they own poo 4 free's just to anoy you :Grin: 

oooohhhhh love that shit Davo!!! ummmm stop it stop it!!! :Wink:

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## R93

I was all of the above when I used one, obviously. I seen the light and even managed to avoid fat chicks in oil when I changed cals.
None of my mates that I hunt with, own a 6mm in any variety.

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## Toby

> I was all of the above when I used one, obviously. I seen the light and even managed to avoid fat chicks in oil when I changed cals.
> None of my mates that I hunt with, own a 6mm in any variety.


I must have some sense as I went right to 6.5

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## Neckshot

> I was all of the above when I used one, obviously. I seen the light and even managed to avoid fat chicks in oil when I changed cals.
> None of my mates that I hunt with, own a 6mm in any variety.


ba ha ha ha  im still retarded so that's me fucked!!......bloody fat chicks always causing greif.I better stop contaminating this thread with my nonsense

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## kiwijames

> I was all of the above when I used one, obviously. I seen the light and even managed to avoid fat chicks in oil when I changed cals.
> None of my mates that I hunt with, own a 6mm in any variety.


Ooh that hurts.

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## sneeze

> I was all of the above when I used one, obviously. I seen the light and even managed to avoid fat chicks in oil when I changed cals.
> None of my mates that I hunt with, own a 6mm in any variety.


Nothing like defining a relationship :Angry:  :Grin:

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## Neckshot

He loses all rational thinking when you touch on a 243 :Grin:  secretly dave walks past and pokes every 243 in the shop! :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## sneeze

> I was all of the above when I used one, obviously. I seen the light and even managed to avoid fat chicks in oil when I changed cals.
> None of my mates that I hunt with, own a 6mm in any variety.


On reflection I have to agree. :ORLY:

----------


## R93

Forgive my slight oversight! :Grin:  I forgot that you 2 bums had 6mills because you both showed up to hunt, with decent gear.  :Psmiley:

----------


## Ground Control

I suppose a 243 is cheaper than a sex change .

----------


## sneeze

Kiwiwjames  you should come down for week in early jan. Seems I have an opening now :Grin:

----------


## R93

> Kiwiwjames  you should come down for week in early jan. Seems I have an opening now



Come on me old mate. :Grin:  I will become a tradition. You can invite all your mates to laugh at the retard from the coast, floundering around Keneperu trying to catch fish.

KJ should come down. He will keep you honest on the steel and more importantly on the whiskey, you might get thru half a bottle between you  :Psmiley:

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## sneeze

> Come on me old mate. I will become a tradition. You can invite all your mates to laugh at the retard from the coast, floundering around Keneperu trying to catch fish.
> 
> KJ should come down. He will keep you honest on the steel and more importantly on the whiskey, you might get thru half a bottle between you


Yeah OK but I know Im going to feel dirty after

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## kiwijames

> Kiwiwjames  you should come down for week in early jan. Seems I have an opening now


Shall I bring the 243?

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## R93

> Shall I bring the 243?


Yeah mate. I think sneeze was gunna set up a range for the ladies and kids anyway lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## sneeze

> Shall I bring the 243?


  Thats like "should  I bring a bottle to  a whiskey evening?"

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## 7mmsaum

Had a wee think today about the suitability of a short 7mm as a forum wildcat.

I presumed it could have a few practical features.........

1.  quietness and low recoil when suppressed. (Great for those 4 pound single shots !)

2. Economical to reload

3. Fits factory short actions

4.  Std 22-250, 243, 7mm08 boltface

5.  And 3000fps+ with 120 Ballistic Tips or TTSX projectiles for humane harvesting.


With that in mind I used a 7mm mandrel and opened up the neck of some Rem and Sako 22-250 brass.

STD 22-250 and 7mmFEH (forum elite hunter)
[

The 7mm/22-250 holds 40 grains of adi2208 to the neck shoulder junction, no doubt a faster burn rate powder would give us the velocity we need.

Shouldn't be too hard to get a reamer made, or use a std 22-250 reamer and a 7mm throater.

22-250 dies can have the neck altered/bigger bushing or blank dies reamed.

If the chambering is too slow or lacks excitement for some then a simple ream to 7mm08 returns the rifle to its former glory.

It's no LR bomber but bush edge and less than 250 yrds should see it in its element, - perhaps maybe  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Rushy

It fascinates me that you guys do this stuff.  I am yet to understand why though.

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## Toby

It's fun Rushy. You should try it

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## 7mmsaum

> It's fun Rushy. You should try it


You haven't wildcatted the 7mm FEH yet ???

----------


## Toby

> You haven't wildcatted the 7mm FEH yet ???


Not yet

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## Barefoot

Looks like a 7mm08 with weight issues  :ORLY:

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## Kiwi Greg

> Had a wee think today about the suitability of a short 7mm as a forum wildcat.
> 
> I presumed it could have a few practical features.........
> 
> 1.  quietness and low recoil when suppressed. (Great for those 4 pound single shots !)
> 
> 2. Economical to reload
> 
> 3. Fits factory short actions
> ...


Plenty of merit there  :Cool:  

Using Lapua brass it would probably go surprising well, close behind the 7-08 if its smaller sister the 6mm-250 is anything to go by.

A slightly gruntier verson would the .284 Creedmore  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Neckshot

> Had a wee think today about the suitability of a short 7mm as a forum wildcat.
> 
> I presumed it could have a few practical features.........
> 
> 1.  quietness and low recoil when suppressed. (Great for those 4 pound single shots !)
> 
> 2. Economical to reload
> 
> 3. Fits factory short actions
> ...


It give's me the impression that it could be an incredibly accurate load if those number's work out as by the sounds it wont be screaming out of the barrel?.

----------


## Rushy

> It's fun Rushy. You should try it


Nah don't think so Toby

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## BRADS

> It give's me the impression that it could be an incredibly accurate load if those number's work out as by the sounds it wont be screaming out of the barrel?.


If you consider 3000+ slow

----------


## kiwi39

> Nah don't think so Toby


Ever make your own home brew @Rushy ?

Proud to serve your own venison ?

It's not rocket science mate and you're obviously not short of the old grey matter 


Tim

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## Rushy

> Ever make your own home brew @Rushy ?
> 
> Proud to serve your own venison ?
> 
> It's not rocket science mate and you're obviously not short of the old grey matter 
> 
> 
> Tim


Never made home brew Tim.  Drunk a fair bit of the dodgy stuff my old man made though.

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## kiwi39

> Never made home brew Tim.  Drunk a fair bit of the dodgy stuff my old man made though.


C'mon @Rushy, stop being a grumpy old c-unit and join the fun.

She's pretty big job ay ....


Tim

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## Rushy

> C'mon @Rushy, stop being a grumpy old c-unit and join the fun.
> 
> She's pretty big job ay ....
> 
> 
> Tim


Ha ha ha ha.  Back to the original subject there are guys that tinker and change stuff to make it bigger, better, faster and then there are guys like me who just accept that the standard off the shelf stuff works fine enough for them.

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## kiwi39

Fair call

----------


## 7mmsaum

Here we have a visual comparison between the 7mmFEH and a Standard 7mm-08 on the right.

The Forum Elite Hunter is loaded with a 120grain BT and the 7mm-08 is loaded with a 140grain BT (to suit a long throated Sako)

As Kiwigreg alluded to 3050-3100fps might be achievable with Lapua brass, pushing the shoulder forward would be cool but necessitates fire forming. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this, is it too small in capacity for general hunting????

Perhaps we could have a slight concept change on the Forum wildcat idea and have a Forum line of wildcats, this one could be the smallest and let's have two above it, to cover all our hunting requirements.
The mid can be the short 284 idea and the large, well, that's a whole 'nother thread  :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:

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## Ground Control

I'm a big 7mm fan , so I think its a great idea ,  how would 6.5mm go on that case size ?

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## 7mmsaum

> I'm a big 7mm fan , so I think its a great idea ,  how would 6.5mm go on that case size ?


I would like to say faster  :Have A Nice Day:  but increased bearing surface with the 120 grainers in 6.5 might even them up velocity wise, might.

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## PerazziSC3

Anyone played with the wssm case? (Super short magnum) that necked to 7mm might be quite nice, about 55grain of water capacity so should be slightly ahead of the 08. Would have a very short coal so would go in the shortest of actions. Bit more buggering around to get it going tho probably

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## 7mmsaum

A 6.5 would still have the original design characteristics outlined here.........






> Had a wee think today about the suitability of a short 7mm as a forum wildcat.
> 
> I presumed it could have a few practical features.........
> 
> 1.  quietness and low recoil when suppressed. (Great for those 4 pound single shots !)
> 
> 2. Economical to reload
> 
> 3. Fits factory short actions
> ...

----------


## Matt2308

> A 6.5 would still have the original design characteristics outlined here.........


Now AI that 7mmFEH and you'd have a great little performer with next to no brass stretch and a mean looking case!

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## BRADS

> A 6.5 would still have the original design characteristics outlined here.........


Except its a 6.5 :Wink:

----------


## Wildman

> Except its a 6.5


And pretty much a 6.5x47 Lapua or Creedmore right?

----------


## Callum

A guy on the long range forum has tried a 7mm wssm but not tested it, called it the .284 thunder chicken, must work extremely well with a silly name like that

----------


## PerazziSC3

> A guy on the long range forum has tried a 7mm wssm but not tested it, called it the .284 thunder chicken, must work extremely well with a silly name like that


Haha classic. Must be some merit to the design, would look cool anyway

----------


## 7mmsaum

> And pretty much a 6.5x47 Lapua or Creedmore right?


Probably, and my idea is just a gutless 7mm rem mag  :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day: 

We are not trying to do anything revolutionary here, or cover unchartered ground, just trying to have a 'Forum Wildcat' or line of wildcats we can call our own, as we all know there is nothing new under the sun.

If it ends up being 'neat' or 'cool' and someone wants one for a bit of a play and to shoot shit then mission accomplished, shooting needs to be about having fun.

----------


## Wildman

> Probably, and my idea is just a gutless 7mm rem mag   
> 
> We are not trying to do anything revolutionary here, or cover unchartered ground, just trying to have a 'Forum Wildcat' or line of wildcats we can call our own, as we all know there is nothing new under the sun.
> 
> If it ends up being 'neat' or 'cool' and someone wants one for a bit of a play and to shoot shit then mission accomplished, shooting needs to be about having fun.


I was talking about the idea of necking down your 7mm FEH to 6.5 you touchy old bugger.

----------


## Gibo

Do you blues need to take 5, would hate to get admin to take care of themselves hahahahaha  :ORLY:

----------


## Wildman

Blues are naturally cool Gibo, you should know that :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## 7mmsaum

> I was talking about the idea of necking down your 7mm FEH to 6.5 you touchy old bugger.


Just gave myself three uppercuts and kicked sand in my own face  :Have A Nice Day:        Hahahahahahahahaha

----------


## Rushy

> Do you blues need to take 5, would hate to get admin to take care of themselves hahahahaha


Ha ha ha ha delete member buttons at fifty paces

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## 7mmsaum

> Ha ha ha ha delete member buttons at fifty paces


Hahahahahaha.  R is before W or 7mm.  Hahahahahaha

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## Bryan

Crazy blue people...anyway, what about making the most of the new .270 LR AB and necking it to fit those or maybe the standard 130gr projo's. Would be a nice short action all rounder with moderate speeds??

----------


## Neckshot

Its a great looking wildcat, and would suit the budget consoius loader and under 250 yards it will be devestating on deer.
Might be time to get a 7mm.

----------


## Rushy

> Hahahahahaha.  R is before W or 7mm.  Hahahahahaha


Good point.

----------


## yerimaginaryM8

7FEH isn't that just a 7 IHMSA a 7mm based on a 250 savage (ie 22-250) case? if so i guess reamers are available off the shelf I looked at 7 IHMSA a while back and  I remember reading that 300 savage brass is the preferred starting point as opposed to necking up 22-250 or 250 savage brass

I like the idea of a 7mm creedmore improved. shorter than a 7-08 so suits short actions like the rem model 7

I have this 7saum shortened 200 one working really well now after a few initial brass forming headaches 162 amax does 2930 out of 24 inch tube

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## username

> A guy on the long range forum has tried a 7mm wssm but not tested it, called it the .284 thunder chicken, must work extremely well with a silly name like that


Ha "Thunder chicken" classic. If you do a large magnum it could be ***HOT "HAMMER OF THOR!!!!" BOOM!!!! I just blew your mind!!.  This is all i can contribute to this discussion. USERNAME OUT!!!

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## 7mmsaum

> Its a great looking wildcat, and would suit the budget consoius loader and under 250 yards it will be devestating on deer.
> Might be time to get a 7mm.


Yes about time you did  :Have A Nice Day:

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## 7mmsaum

> Here we have a visual comparison between the 7mmFEH and a Standard 7mm-08 on the right.
> 
> The Forum Elite Hunter is loaded with a 120grain BT and the 7mm-08 is loaded with a 140grain BT (to suit a long throated Sako)
> 
> As Kiwigreg alluded to 3050-3100fps might be achievable with Lapua brass, pushing the shoulder forward would be cool but necessitates fire forming. 
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on this, is it too small in capacity for general hunting????
> 
> Perhaps we could have a slight concept change on the Forum wildcat idea and have a Forum line of wildcats, this one could be the smallest and let's have two above it, to cover all our hunting requirements.
> The mid can be the short 284 idea and the large, well, that's a whole 'nother thread



Might need to get a model 7 for this project  :Have A Nice Day:

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## yerimaginaryM8

7FEH isn't that just a 7mm IHMSA a 7mm based on a 250 savage (ie 22-250) case? were you trying to do something unique? I guess at least dies, reamers, and load data are all ready available federal used to sell brass too but they stopped....

a question re: 7mm IHMSA

----------


## 7mmsaum

> 7FEH isn't that just a 7mm IHMSA a 7mm based on a 250 savage (ie 22-250) case? were you trying to do something unique? I guess at least dies, reamers, and load data are all ready available federal used to sell brass too but they stopped....
> 
> a question re: 7mm IHMSA


It certainly looks close, less taper perhaps.

----------


## veitnamcam

This post was a reply to a tx that somehow ended up here. Couldnt delete.

----------


## BRADS

> It certainly looks close, less taper perhaps.


Have you made one yet mate?
Be interested in hearing how the testing went :Have A Nice Day:

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## 7mmsaum

No not yet, been playing with the "Houston warehouse" saum

21 3/4 inch barrel, 1.3 inch dia at the muzzle  :Have A Nice Day: 

Shooting very well  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## 7mmsaum

And still using the standard model 7 in saum

Any further ideas for a forum wildcat ?

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## BRADS

> And still using the standard model 7 in saum
> 
> Any further ideas for a forum wildcat ?


Yes standard 243 what more could you want

----------


## Gibo

Subsonic 338 saum

----------


## veitnamcam

Now thats just silly.

----------


## PerazziSC3

lets neck a 7-08 up to 30cal and call it good?

----------


## Friwi

What about a 303 necked down to 30 cal?
All those lee Enfield could have a second life!

----------


## veitnamcam

> What about a 303 necked down to 30 cal?
> All those lee Enfield could have a second life!


Been done as well as plenty of other bore sizes, custom on a weak very old action just doesnt make sense.

----------


## mucko

> What about a 303 necked down to 30 cal?
> All those lee Enfield could have a second life!


neck down to 6.5 or 7mm, 303/25 already done.

----------


## mikee

cut a 308 case off at the, neck it down to 7mm (if you must ) and bobs your uncle, fannys your aunt you have a nice 200m round, barrels will last ages yada yada yada

----------


## JRW87

.17-54r

----------


## Friwi

> cut a 308 case off at the, neck it down to 7mm (if you must ) and bobs your uncle, fannys your aunt you have a nice 200m round, barrels will last ages yada yada yada


Kind of a 7 mm br, nothing new under the tropics as we say in French.

----------


## 7mmsaum

> Now AI that 7mmFEH and you'd have a great little performer with next to no brass stretch and a mean looking case!


Now theres a good idea  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## ebf

reloading wise for this 7mm FEH, would you be able to get away with a 22-250 body die and then larger bushings in a neck die ?

sounds like something that might fix the only issue i have with the 7-08, mag length...

----------


## 7mmsaum

Yes that will work

----------


## ebf

and what cunning plan do you have for a seating die ?  :Grin:

----------


## 7mmsaum

With lapua brass and 120g ballistic tips it might be a 3000fps capable chambering

----------


## Wildman

Has anyone actually done anything about this and got one done?

----------


## 7mmsaum

> and what cunning plan do you have for a seating die ?


Lyman make a 7mm universal seating die, as do a couple of other companies

----------


## 7mmsaum

> Has anyone actually done anything about this and got one done?


Hey hey dont get all logical on us  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## veitnamcam

> Has anyone actually done anything about this and got one done?


No this thread is 4 years old.
The only way it will get built is if someone says.

THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

And hopefully someone take offense and builds something to spite me.  :Grin:

----------


## 7mmsaum

I took a 7 mm08 case and necked it up to 30 cal , does that count ?  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Friwi

There have been some work on the 6.5x47 necked up to 7 mm and  your wild cat will be very close to a 6.5 creedmoor necked up to 7mm.
I can post a picture with an a-max if you want. So you can dream about it tonight :-)

----------


## madjon_

Disc World,7x47L,43grn BLC2 to the shoulder.120 ttsx

----------


## mikee

> I took a 7 mm08 case and necked it up to 30 cal , does that count ?


I love that 30-08 anyone  :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:  I am sure it will be real popular............................

----------


## kotuku

could i suggest a brass 12g case necked down to take a.17 pill.
not aufait with all this fancy chamberings ,but just a suggestion
.tell me to fuck off cause i know ya will!

----------


## Tommy

> Disc World,Attachment 465417x47L,43grn BLC2 to the shoulder.120 ttsx


7x47 aka Cori Celesti.. - Good to see some of us understand it's turtle all the way down!   :Thumbsup:

----------


## 6x47

> WTF is that monstrosity?? 
> 
> Thats horrible - can/does it actually shoot or is it a piss take?


Surprisingly, yes!!
But it doesn't deserve to with that non-neck

----------


## madjon_

Terry was a man before his time :Sick:

----------


## 7mmsaum

Well, a Forum Elite Hunter cartridge that can be a little different but still practical might be a 6XC necked up to  6.5mm, 6.8mm or 7mm.


Easy brass to find and form if need be, can ai it if that spins yer wheels



7saum and 6XC



22-250 and 6XC




220 swift, 6XC and 204 Ruger






Different but still practical ??

----------


## 7mmsaum

Plenty of good 6XC brass around now.


Anyone contemplating or using a 7x47 yet ?

----------


## Friwi

A 6.5 xc is so close to 6.5 creedmoor, it ain't funny .

----------


## Ryan_Songhurst

well,its taken you blokes four years, but I have come up with the answer myself

----------


## 223nut

> well,its taken you blokes four years, but I have come up with the answer myself
> Attachment 52290


Do I even need to look at the numbers to work outs it's a 270!!

----------


## Ryan_Songhurst

Well I was goung to call it the 6.8-06 but yes I suppose you could call it that

----------


## 7mmsaum

> Well I was goung to call it the 6.8-06 but yes I suppose you could call it that


When you analyse the .270 calibre in detail you come across an interesting fact

.270 in metric is 6.858 mm

And a .284 (7mm) is 7.2136


So a .270 is closer to 7mm than what a 7mm is


Not sure what my point is  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Ryan_Songhurst

> When you analyse the .270 calibre in detail you come across an interesting fact
> 
> .270 in metric is 6.858 mm
> 
> And a .284 (7mm) is 7.2136
> 
> 
> So a .270 is closer to 7mm than what a 7mm is
> 
> ...


Your point is that everyone who says "7mm is the best, bla bla bla bla" is making a fool of themselves whilst at the same time being absolutely correct

----------


## 7mmsaum

Precisely  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## ning

> Plenty of good 6XC brass around now.
> 
> 
> Anyone contemplating or using a 7x47 yet ?


Yes. After reading the article on accurate shooter where he cuts a barrel down from 32" to 16" in 2"sections it made me think.

The speeds he was getting from the 168VLD is basically the same as what I can get out of my 20"708 with 162 amax's.

article here: 
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-...cat-cartridge/

There's not much info out there though.
Does anyone have any experience with one?

----------


## yerimaginaryM8

I like the look of a 7mm creedmore over a 7x47 slightly better capacity and could go improved as well though not much of  a gain capacity wise. like the x47 the creedmore is considerably shorter than an 08 case and will allow pointy pullets to be seated to the lands even in shorter actions like the model 7 that won't take an extended wyatts mag. If you want to get fancy you can form the brass from lapua .308 and you can even use the palma brass so you can go small primers. It was originally called 7mm GPC. I have a model 7 in 7-08 impossible to get 140 nosler bts to feed out of the mag and get within coo-ee of the lands. I trim the plastic tips with a meplat trimmer so I can get to 50 thou off. If I ever have silly amounts of disposable income I would rebarrel and do it. An expensive proposition by the time you get reamer and dies sorted. I wild-catted a 7 saum mod 7 by shortening the chamber 200, and shortening dies, and getting a form die still cost considerable $

----------

