# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  Sierras new Game changer bullets

## Wingman

New hunting bullet from Sierra.. looks like they made a heavier jacketed TMK..  I look forward to testing the 130gr in 6.5mm

https://youtu.be/pBDudUOaajk

https://youtu.be/3UnmfK_w9yI

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## Cowboy06

300_blk did a review on them shooting goats. It’s on longrange hunting forum. They are a tipped game king. Similar sort of thing to a sst.
I don’t think they have reinvented the wheel.

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## Wingman

No.. not a tipped gameking.. they are more the match king shape like the tipped match king but heavier jacket etc. Personally I think they are what the Sierra company has been missing for a while, the lead tip gamekings distort big time in mags and on feed ramps.

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## Flyblown

> 300_blk did a review on them shooting goats. It’s on longrange hunting forum. They are a tipped game king. Similar sort of thing to a sst. I don’t think they have reinvented the wheel.


That’s not the case mate. I read a lot about these new Sierras a few weeks and concluded that they are designed to be a much tougher bullet than the GameKing. Then I emailed Philip Mahin at Sierra and asked him straight up. Correct, much thicker jacket, tougher alloy core. Not a GameKing at all. A very specific 1800fps limit on expansion, which no doubt some long range shooters will find out about the hard way. 

This is a deep penetrating, tough, heavy game bullet. It will blow straight through most of our game species in NZ. The only applications I might consider using it would be heavy pigs or maybe the largest sambar / red / wapiti stags in the 200-400m range.

I am hoping my cuz in the US will have a detailed report for me after deer season there in the next few weeks as he wants to try them, but has similar reservations. 

The GameKing / ProHunter design is ideal for our deer species. They are the same partially fragmenting design, bar the obvious boat tail / flat base. The limitation is their low BC. In the drop tests I’ve done with five common hunting bullets in 6mm, 7mm and .308 the GameKings always came last for accuracy at 400m. But as an effective killer, their track record is right up there obviously.

I think its fair to say that many hunters on this forum would be a bit wary of runners from over penetration and limited or no fragmentation, which has been my experience of using bullets designed for tough game on red skins and fallow.

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## Tahr

I doubt they are any tougher than the Barnes TTSX and they work well for me.

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## Mathias

> That’s not the case mate. I read a lot about these new Sierras a few weeks and concluded that they are designed to be a much tougher bullet than the GameKing. Then I emailed Philip Mahin at Sierra and asked him straight up. Correct, much thicker jacket, tougher alloy core. Not a GameKing at all. A very specific 1800fps limit on expansion, which no doubt some long range shooters will find out about the hard way. 
> 
> This is a deep penetrating, tough, heavy game bullet. It will blow straight through most of our game species in NZ. The only applications I might consider using it would be heavy pigs or maybe the largest sambar / red / wapiti stags in the 200-400m range.
> 
> I am hoping my cuz in the US will have a detailed report for me after deer season there in the next few weeks as he wants to try them, but has similar reservations. 
> 
> The GameKing / ProHunter design is ideal for our deer species. They are the same partially fragmenting design, bar the obvious boat tail / flat base. The limitation is their low BC. In the drop tests I’ve done with five common hunting bullets in 6mm, 7mm and .308 the GameKings always came last for accuracy at 400m. But as an effective killer, their track record is right up there obviously.
> 
> I think its fair to say that many hunters on this forum would be a bit wary of runners from over penetration and limited or no fragmentation, which has been my experience of using bullets designed for tough game on red skins and fallow.


Good info Flyblown, thanks. I had heard they were a heavily constructed bullet for controlled expansion at higher velocities, hence the 1800fps minimum stated.

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## Wingman

Yes good break down flyblown and you are dead right they probably are too heavy for 99% of nz big game. Maybe ok at close ranges but after pondering your comments I think Ill stay with the lighter jacketed Sierra TMK which have never let me down.

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## Flyblown

33:25 is where you see the recovered bullets and their expansion.

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## Flyblown

And from the Sierra Blog, here are the bullet lengths, which are helpful for stability checks.

6mm 90 = 1.161″
6.5mm 130 = 1.373′
.277 140 = 1.377″
7mm 165 = 1.495″
.308 165 = 1.409″

From some rough measurements on the screen, the plastic tip looks to be about 14% of the total length, for the JBM stability calc.

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## quadhunter260

Hmm wonder if those 130s will work in my 1:9 260 rem

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## rambo-6mmrem

Yeah they look like a good bullet
From that video anyway

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## septic

Anyone got them in stock in NZ?

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## Flyblown

I was thinking today I might give the 6mm GameChanger a go in my .243 Win as they would probably be the best compromise between BC and weight for a 1:10” twist barrel and would certainly fly better and carry more energy than the Prohunter and Gameking. But the problem is I think they’ll be too hard for what I want to do, never really been a fan of bullets that don’t shed much weight, just personal preference. In 6mm the 100gr ProHunter and GameKing are perfect for goats and small to medium deer, perfect balance of penetration and fragmentation in my book. 

But I’ll probably try the it anyway on goats, just to see what happens. Curiosity being what it is and all. Will be keen to slice one in half and have a look at the jacket and base thickness first.

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## rambo-6mmrem

> Anyone got them in stock in NZ?


Asked Reloaders that yesterday haven’t arrived yet on order though a couple of months away apparently 
Apparently nz is one of the First
 Countries outside the us that will have them landed

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## Gillie

> I was thinking today I might give the 6mm GameChanger a go in my .243 Win as they would probably be the best compromise between BC and weight for a 1:10” twist barrel and would certainly fly better and carry more energy than the Prohunter and Gameking.


I hope they stabilise in your 1:10" twist barrel - I have heard mixed reviews...

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## Gillie

> Asked Reloaders that yesterday haven’t arrived yet on order though a couple of months away apparently 
> Apparently nz is one of the First
>  Countries outside the us that will have them landed


They are here in NZ already. The NZ Guns & Hunting magazine got some to try out a few weeks ago.

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## takbok

I think we'll be waiting for the Gamechanger's in the UK for a while yet. I'll try them out in my 6x45 as soon as I can get my hands on some.

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## rambo-6mmrem

> They are here in NZ already. The NZ Guns & Hunting magazine got some to try out a few weeks ago.


Cool might just be samples? Hopefully not keen to try some 130’s in 6.5 cm

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## Tahr

Holding their weight, expanding at ordinary long rang ranges and punching right through sounds the ticket for me - especially if they are cheaper than Barnes TTSX and not as fiddly to get to shoot.

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## Flyblown

> I hope they stabilise in your 1:10" twist barrel - I have heard mixed reviews...


Yeah, so do I. The Sierra techs say they _definitely_ will, which is bold but probably because they've tested a shit load of them. The stability calcs look good. Important to use the JBM one or another that allows for the length of the plastic tip.

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## chainsaw

Any updates on how these work on reds? Got a long throated 284 and looking for a bush load. Shoots TMKs nicely, but not sure these will hold up at very close quarters on big stags

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## Flyblown

My cuz in Colorado said the .30 cal 165gr worked "okay but not great" or words to that effect in their deer season late last year. Also bush stalking, mule deer, which is a pretty good proxy for decent reds. Can't remember the specifics but worked well on the one, and not so well on the other, along the lines of over penetration and not much peripheral wounding. Was a very long runner. 

He has dropped it and gone back to the GameKing. assume its also 165gr.

I might be able to get photos, he's up in the oilfields now so won't hear back for a while probably.

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## Mooseman

The 90 gr in 243 may be the ticket, a bit more penetration could be a good thing so long as it expands ok on the way through.

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## 300_BLK

Sierra recently released a new series of plastic tipped hunting projectiles called the GameChanger. Sierra has produced some great traditional lead nose hunting bullets over the years with their GameKing and Pro-Hunter lines and I have used them to shoot a lot of animals. The packaging labels them as Tipped GameKings and they are a lead-alloy core projectile with a tapered copper jacket and translucent green polymer tip. I knew that if they performed anything like a traditional GameKing then Sierra would be on to a winner.

I managed to get hold of a small quantity for testing in 6.5mm and 7mm and decided to load them in my Custom 7mm Short Action Ultra Magnum and .264 Winchester Magnum to test in close and at extended ranges to 500m on game. NZ Ammunition Company supplied me with some H1000 powder manufactured by Hodgdons to try which is very close in burn rate to AR2217.
After loading up some ladders starting a few grains under my AR2217 load data I headed to the range with the LabRadar to determine my speeds and see which combinations shot best. The 7 SAUM is built on a Defiance Machine action and has a Proof Research carbon fibre wrapped barrel with a Trigger Tech trigger and AG Composites carbon fibre stock. It is a consistent ¼ MOA shooter and was put together by Mark Macfarlane at Desert Guns in Cromwell. It proved itself again by pushing the 165 grain GameChangers at 3100 fps and producing a 10mm group centre to centre. Happy with that I switched over to my semi-custom .264 Winchester Magnum built by Master Rifle-Smith Robbie Tiffen at Gunworks Canterbury. The Mighty .264 did not disappoint producing a 11mm group pushing the 130 grain GameChangers at 3153 fps.

Since all the hard work was done it was time to test these new projectiles on some game. Heading to my favourite spot in the Wairarapa with my four-year-old daughter Isla, we tried to locate a fallow spiker for some Spring venison. Lady Luck was not on our side and with the Manuka planting about to go ahead the Cocky had asked us to remove as many Goats as we could. I set up on the first two Billy Goats feeding up a native covered face 300m away. With the camera rolling I dispatched the first with a neck shot dropping him instantly. Observing the dead right there performance of the 7mm GameChangers when striking bone, I elected for a rear lung shot on the second goat who hadnt moved thanks to the muffled report of the ASE UTRA suppressor. Aiming for the crease of the shoulder, I gently squeezed of the shot with the camera rolling. The sound of a good hit came back and the goat staggered forward three feet and dropped, never to rise again. Once we recovered the animals it was clear the Tipped GameKings were completely penetrating and leaving 20mm exit wounds. The neck shot offered more resistance and therefore a more emphatic result with a very large exit about the size of my palm.

Happy at close range we elected to try to shoot some at 300m plus, I say we but really, I was keen to keep shooting and Isla was interested in the contents of the packed lunch! With the promise of a boiled sweet we moved to higher ground and settled in behind the .264 Win Mag. There was a consistent 15 mile per hour wind blowing from our four oclock and it made wind calls challenging but having practiced regularly in these conditions I was confident in stretching out to 450m. There were plenty of goats feeding between 250-450m and I settled on a lone nanny with two juveniles. With a 1.4 mil elevation correction and 1 mil of wind on I sent a 130 grain bullet into the crease of the goat. Jumping at a good hit she ran at a dead run for 30m before piling up out of view of the camera. I manged to shoot another pair of billies in the thick gorse with the .264 at 350m and a mob of nine goats was thinned to two at 400m before we switched back to the 7mm SAUM. With all of the shooting most of the animals had gone to ground for good reason and with Islas patience running thin we shot a final nanny at 400m with the SAUM. Facing towards us I aimed right between the shoulder blades and at the shot it dropped instantly.

Once Isla and I had recovered as much meat as possible we hiked up the ridge to the side by side and headed back for a well-earned cuppa. All told we took twenty-five goats and the Sierra GameChangers proved to be a good reliable bullet. There was a marked difference in the stopping power in favour of the 7mm and I would primarily put this down to shot placement on my behalf and bore size. Back at home I sectioned a bullet to reveal a thick jacket and deep hollow point beneath the polymer tip. The ogive starts at .038 and thickens to .044 at the base. This combined with the lead-alloy core produces good terminal performance on light game such as the feral goats I was shooting and will no doubt provide even better results on deer.
Remember if you want to shoot at extended ranges on game then have the respect to go out and practice in those conditions which you want to shoot in. Understand your ballistics, use aids such as rangefinders, ballistic apps to calculate windage and elevation and film your shots so you can learn from them a dog to locate your game. Always use a bullet designed to expand at the distance you intend to shoot and remember, perfect practice makes perfect.

Sierra have designed another great product and Im looking forward to trying out the .277 140 grain in the 270 Winchester on Thar later in the year.
Warm barrels and stay safe out there!

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## 300_BLK

literally say's tipped gamekings on the box...

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## 300_BLK

> Thats not the case mate. I read a lot about these new Sierras a few weeks and concluded that they are designed to be a much tougher bullet than the GameKing. Then I emailed Philip Mahin at Sierra and asked him straight up. Correct, much thicker jacket, tougher alloy core. Not a GameKing at all. A very specific 1800fps limit on expansion, which no doubt some long range shooters will find out about the hard way. 
> 
> This is a deep penetrating, tough, heavy game bullet. It will blow straight through most of our game species in NZ. The only applications I might consider using it would be heavy pigs or maybe the largest sambar / red / wapiti stags in the 200-400m range.
> 
> I am hoping my cuz in the US will have a detailed report for me after deer season there in the next few weeks as he wants to try them, but has similar reservations. 
> 
> The GameKing / ProHunter design is ideal for our deer species. They are the same partially fragmenting design, bar the obvious boat tail / flat base. The limitation is their low BC. In the drop tests Ive done with five common hunting bullets in 6mm, 7mm and .308 the GameKings always came last for accuracy at 400m. But as an effective killer, their track record is right up there obviously.
> 
> I think its fair to say that many hunters on this forum would be a bit wary of runners from over penetration and limited or no fragmentation, which has been my experience of using bullets designed for tough game on red skins and fallow.


Based on my experience (have yet to shoot a deer) I concur with what @Flyblown is saying. 

Will publish the footage for all to see this evening and you can make your own mind up.

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## 300_BLK



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## Mooseman

Good report @300blk, I have read mixed reports about these bullet some saying they are to hard and don't expand well but your results tell a different story. Can't beat first hand experience.

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## Mooseman

Good video, most those goats went down very quickly, performance appears to be as good as any plastic tip type bullet.

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## Flyblown

Its interesting @Mooseman, I'm seeing a little bit of reluctance in the last couple of statements in the text to give them a wholehearted thumbs up?

Most of our game animals here are pretty thin skinned and light bodied compared to elk or bear for example.  I am 90% sure from my conversations with the bloke at Sierra that it is the North American proper big game that they have targeted these bullets at.  Likewise I am seeing more and more very ordinary reviews coming in from the US after the deer season, last quarter of last year...

In higher SD calibres like 6.5, hard bullets are a worry on light bodies game.

Gut feel is that compared to a fragmenting bullet design a lot of guys are going to find out the hard way that deer can run a very long way if their locomotion isn't immediately disabled by a GameChanger.  Narrow wound channels is a concern for me. If I compare some of the neat pics of mushrooms in the marketing material, to the wide open petals and fragmented lead and bits of jacket I get from an ELD-X,  I know which one I would rather have doing the work at the business end.

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## Wingman

I totally agree @Flyblowen ,  I certainly wont be straying from the lighter jacketed Tipped match kings for all my game hunting /pest control.
The heavier magnum cartridges have the advantage of 300- 400 fps more velocity and a bigger energy dump which is going to help on the those longer shots but Id be willing to bet those same 400y shots would go a lot different when shooting these bullets through medium power cartridges  such as the humble .308, 243, 708 or any of the 6.5mm short action offerings.
I have many (very graphic) pics of goats and deer taken with the 130gr TMK that show just how much more effective a slightly more frangable bullet is on our lightweight game. There's certainly no penciling pass throughs.. the tmks remove goats heads out to about 250y

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## Mooseman

It is hard to get a do everything bullet for all ranges, I love the ELD X bullets in all the calibers I am using them in and find them good at all ranges I have taken deer at. I want to try the 90 gr ELD X in the 243 when available but thought maybe the 90gr gamechanger could work well as both have similar BC's. They are up there with the price at about $95 plus shipping on Trade Me. These Gamechanger bullets may be better suited to close to medium range or in magnum calibers where the bullet is travelling faster, time will tell.
Won't be changing from the ELD X anytime soon though.

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## Tussock

> These Gamechanger bullets may be better suited to close to medium range or in magnum calibers where the bullet is travelling faster, time will tell.


Not really much point in a high BC 6mm projectile that only works at short ranges. Muchos disappointing, I had high hopes for that BC in a 1:10 twist. I like high SD bullets frangible.

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## Mooseman

True, I think the 243 is a good caliber out to about 350 yards or there about's so high BC isn't as important as a 700- 800 yard rifle where BC is important. @Apollo the ELD X 90 gr 243 bullet has a BC 0f .506 ?? or close to that so that should be a good longer range bullet and hopefully will stabilize in the 1: 10 twist Barrel. All we need is for them to arrive in NZ.

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## Flyblown

I think you're pretty spot on @Mooseman.  Over the years I've taken several fallow and yearling reds with the 243 and the relatively soft 100gr Prohunter between 350 and 400 yards, all from the exact same spot. 389 yards (356m) is the longest from memory. Thats an impact velocity of ~1970fps.

That spot will deliver again and again, and the beauty of it is that I am always shooting from the same position with a very light breeze directly from behind me. I've got that spot pretty much worked out.

Now I know from my drop the testing of this cartridge and low-ish BC ProHunter that once I pass 400 _metres_, it starts to get very iffy and accuracy turns to shit. That's at about 1875fps. It's really dropping by this point, so my limit on my 243 is pretty much 350-360m, assuming no wind.

My 6.5 Creedmoor is only starting to warm up at that range. The annoying thing for me is that when I am carrying my .243 I often see goats that are just out of range, and I wish I had my Creedmoor, but my Creedmoor is (quite deliberately) a heavy medium range shooter, not a carry rifle.  When I walk in to the hills I carry it on a double sling...

So.. the point of this waffle. The 90gr ELD-X will break the 1875fps mark at about _500m_. A full 100m longer than the ProHunter. So even with the slight drop in weight its high BC does the job. That potentially fills a nice gap in my regular shooting - if after drop testing and proving sub-MOA accuracy (I get between 0.7-0.8MOA at 300m with the ProHunter on a still day) I'll be all over those further goats.  According to the technician at Hornady who emailed me back, the 90 grain bullet should reliably expand and partially fragment at 1800fps. Anyway, that's why I'm interested in the 90gr ELD-X.

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## Tussock

> I think you're pretty spot on @Mooseman.  Over the years I've taken several fallow and yearling reds with the 243 and the relatively soft 100gr Prohunter between 350 and 400 yards, all from the exact same spot. 389 yards (356m) is the longest from memory. Thats an impact velocity of ~1970fps.
> 
> That spot will deliver again and again, and the beauty of it is that I am always shooting from the same position with a very light breeze directly from behind me. I've got that spot pretty much worked out.
> 
> Now I know from my drop the testing of this cartridge and low-ish BC ProHunter that once I pass 400 _metres_, it starts to get very iffy and accuracy turns to shit. That's at about 1875fps. It's really dropping by this point, so my limit on my 243 is pretty much 350-360m, assuming no wind.
> 
> My 6.5 Creedmoor is only starting to warm up at that range. The annoying thing for me is that when I am carrying my .243 I often see goats that are just out of range, and I wish I had my Creedmoor, but my Creedmoor is (quite deliberately) a heavy medium range shooter, not a carry rifle.  When I walk in to the hills I carry it on a double sling...
> 
> So.. the point of this waffle. The 90gr ELD-X will break the 1875fps mark at about _500m_. A full 100m longer than the ProHunter. So even with the slight drop in weight its high BC does the job. That potentially fills a nice gap in my regular shooting - if after drop testing and proving sub-MOA accuracy (I get between 0.7-0.8MOA at 300m with the ProHunter on a still day) I'll be all over those further goats.  According to the technician at Hornady who emailed me back, the 90 grain bullet should reliably expand and partially fragment at 1800fps. Anyway, that's why I'm interested in the 90gr ELD-X.


Similar situation for me. I will stay within the ranges you describe for deer and I don't really care what bullet I use. But I like to use my deer rifle as a varminter. With a BC of 0.500 I know I can shoot rabbits 300-400m and I don't need to wait for an ultra still day. I bought the rifle to re-barrel to something in 6.5 but with these new bullets I might not need to.

What a difference half a millimeter makes.

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## Cigar

> ... the ELD X 90 gr 243 bullet has a BC 0f .506 ?? or close to that so that should be a good longer range bullet and hopefully will stabilize in the 1: 10 twist Barrel. All we need is for them to arrive in NZ.


BC is .409 according to Hornady website.
I'm really keen to try them, 103's were no good in a 1:10 twist, love the 178's in my 308.

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## Mooseman

> BC is .409 according to Hornady website.
> I'm really keen to try them, 103's were no good in a 1:10 twist, love the 178's in my 308.


Thanks Cigar that's a lot different than what I said, still should be good though.

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## Tussock

Targex then a re-barrel then.

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## Flyblown

Here's a comparison of the new 90gr 6mm GameChanger (left) and the 100gr 6mm ProHunter (right). I have tried to scale the photos so the relative lengths are pretty accurate.



The ProHunter has been an excellent bullet for me in .243 at 2800fps, readily expanding, partially fragmenting and delivering comprehensive damage to the front lungs, arteries and nerve pathways of red deer. It's also been a very effective neck shooting bullet. 

Shooting deer in the 150-300m range, forward in the shoulder will result in an exit ~50% of the time. If not, the base of the bullet will be found against the hide on the opposite side. This shot placement delivers a wide radius of internal damage and a high probability of a bang-flop. Raking shots in through the chest on a quartering towards deer, will usually exit well behind the shoulder, through the rib cage. 

The differences to the GameChanger are pretty obvious, eh. I cannot fathom why Sierra would design a small calibre bullet shot at high velocity with such a thick jacket. On thin skinned, light framed deer such as whitetail (the target market in the US) and fallow and roe, and our goats, its reasonable to assume that a point of impact that involves only ribs is just going to sail right on through with a narrow wound channel. This reality has been written up in some posts on US forums. 

For heavier game - reds and up - it makes a little more sense assuming you are shoulder shooting for maximum muscle and bone. But in the US it is relatively rare to come across .243 shooters chasing heavier deer species, at least in my experience. 

A good application for this bullet here in NZ would be medium pigs. 

I hope for the deers' sake I am completely wrong and these GameChangers punch big holes no matter where you shoot the animal...

So make your own mind up. A good discussion point for sure.

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## 10-Ring

> .... NZ Ammunition Company supplied me with some H1000 powder manufactured by Hodgdons to try which is very close in burn rate to AR2217...


According to ADI, AR2217 is H1000 relabelled by Hodgdon. 

_Thank you for your enquiry with regard to reloading using ADI Sporting powders.
ADI Powders manufacture powders that are distributed exclusively in North America by the Hodgdon Powder Company.
Please find attached a listing of the ADI Powders and their Hodgdon Powder naming. 
Extreme caution should be taken and loads should be worked up accordingly. Refer to our website at Home - ADI World Class Powders and Ammunition or our 9th edition handloaders guide for more information, warnings and reloading safety.
We thank you for using ADI Sporting Powders.
Yours sincerely,
ADI Technical Centre.

ADI Powder-Hodgdon / IMR naming
Trail Boss-Trail Boss
AR2207-H4198
AR2219-H322
BM2-Benchmark
Bench Mark 8208-8208 XBR
AR2206H-H4895
AR2208-Varget 
AR2209-H4350
AR2213H / AR2213SC-H4831 / H4831SC
AR2217-H1000
AR2225-Retumbo
AR2218-H50BMG_

I've tried H4350 and AR2209 in my 6.5 CM and they both produced identical velocities on my Labradar. The H4350 container had "Manufactured in Australia" in small print on the label.

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## Flyblown

An update on some recent discussion with Sierra about the 90gr 6mm GameChanger. I have a good friend in the UK who has just spent a small fortune trying to get these to work in his Tikka, and he asked for some help. I'd been in touch with Sierra before, so I asked some questions...

On the Sierra blog (https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2018/0...-gamechangers/) a reader asked the question we all want to know the answer to:



I calculated stability for the typical 1:10" .243 barrel using the JBM calculator, using a value of 0.14" for the plastic tip length. It returned a Miller value of 1.276, which is just below the stability threshold of 1.3. MilSpec stability is 1.5, and a stability value between 1.3 - 1.5 is classed as "marginal" as per the Litz / Berger definition. So my conclusion was that Sierra was flirting with poor accuracy in a wide range of factory .243s with 1:10" twist barrels. 

In the US market, the .243 Winchester rifle market is dominated by Remington (1:9⅛") and Savage (1:9¼"). Surprise surprise, these barrels achieve a Miller value of 1.5 with the 90gr GameChanger.

So to my mind, the statement in the Sierra blog by Duane Siercks was misleading. Well, you could suggest its plain wrong. 

So I asked his colleague Philip Mahin about this. Mr Mahin said _"I have heard both sides of the fence with our new 90gr TGK in a 1-10 twist, some say it works great and others cant get accuracy because of borderline stability. I do know that a 1-9 twist will stabilize it just fine so it may need to be used in a different firearm [to the 1:10"]".

_Eh?

I then took a look at the new Sierra load data app. Sierra has changed something quite fundamental on their .243 Winchester page. 



Gone is the 1:9⅛ Remington test rifle, replaced by a "universal" 1:8" barrel. I pointed out to the Sierra tech that it is not possible to buy a factory .243 rifle with a 1:8" barrel (their may be one specialist option, but no standard "off the shelf" options from the normal manufacturers. 



I didn't hear back. 

To my mind Sierra is fudging the numbers and presenting a bullet to market that has a high chance of not working in a large number of factory rifles. 

It is also worth pointing out that in the past, Sierra has clearly communicated twist requirements on their website, and packaging. There's no mention of required twist rate for the 90gr GameChanger. 

Why would they do this? 

It will be very very interesting to see (next month) what the Hornady ELD-X 90gr is like in the .243 Win 1:10", as the bullet is slightly shorter, and has a Miller value of... 1.5. Ha! 

I've posted this to help get the message out that if you spend $92 on a box of 6mm GameChangers for your 1:10" twist .243 Win, you may well find that they don't work. If you want to try them, I strongly suggest you buy a sample pack first.

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## chainsaw

yep, sounds a bit dodgey & there's no point in Sierra fudging the data or info provided to shooters 'cos we will find out the truth and word-of-mouth marketing is the strongest impact on customer purchase decisions.
BTW - what about their 7mm and 30 cal 165 gn pills ?  Any good for close to intermediate ranges (50 - 500 yrds) ?

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## shift14

> yep, sounds a bit dodgey & there's no point in Sierra fudging the data or info provided to shooters 'cos we will find out the truth and word-of-mouth marketing is the strongest impact on customer purchase decisions.
> BTW - what about their 7mm and 30 cal 165 gn pills ?  Any good for close to intermediate ranges (50 - 500 yrds) ?


Check out BlackWatch on instagram. Some real world testing on expansion/ weight retention vs velocity for the 165 gr 30 cal. projectiles.
B

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## Flyblown

@shift14  thanks for that I joined Instagram just to take a look...  far out they blow massive holes in fallow deer for sure, way too much bullet for those little critters. Way too much damage. I belong to the school of thought that says you want the energy expended inside of the animal and not in the neighbouring country.

Very interesting that 1800fps bullet, the complete lack of expansion does not tally with what the Sierra tech told me, which was that they had tested it down to that velocity with complete expansion.

Will have a chat with the fella at Blackwatch, he's been very approachable in the past would be good to have a conversation about these bullets.

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## Dreamer

I've managed to get them to shoot ok 1'' or less in a standard .243 barrel (1-10" Tikka). Did have to change powder from the ever reliable 2209 in the .243 to N160 but its done the job.

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## Flyblown

That's good to hear @Dreamer. Have you had the chance to test accuracy at longer range? Like 300m? 400m? Its possible that a marginally stable bullet (which this is) could start to miss behave quite badly as it slows down, pitching and yawing and increasingly drag.  There is a video out there somewhere of the results of this with one of the Bergers shot from a barrel with a marginal twist rate.  Good 100m accuracy but really shit down range.  It might not matter if you are not planning on shooting stuff at close range though.

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## Dreamer

@Flyblown shot this group at 400yds this morning bare in mind I havent got the rifle sighted in for these and should have used my bigger plate but the first shot hit top left corner then the 2 to the right at the top so they seem to stabilise fine for me. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Flyblown

That's excellent. So it does appear true, what the Sierra technician said, some 1:10" barrels will, some won't. 

This is one of the best results I've seen on the web for the 90gr 6mm bullet.

Bloody good advert for Tikkas as well.

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## Dreamer

> That's excellent. So it does appear true, what the Sierra technician said, some 1:10" barrels will, some won't. 
> 
> This is one of the best results I've seen on the web for the 90gr 6mm bullet.
> 
> Bloody good advert for Tikkas as well.


It's actually a secondhand gunworks fluted tikka barrel screwed on to a Sako A2 in a Ken Henderson stock so a bit of a cross breed  :Thumbsup:  Soon to be rebarreled with a 1-8" bartlien chambered in 6mm creedmoor though.

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## outdoorlad

Have just worked up a load with the 130gn G/C in my 260 carbonlite, 20” barrel and got 2860fps with Superformance. One trip to the range for a ladder test, then another for some groups..done, very easy. Be interestingly to see how they go on deer.

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## Gkp

Guys, Check out the new Sierra App. Pretty cool

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## 300AAC

Bit of an update to this thread guys. 
After a year of using the Game Changes myself, and developing a tonne of custom loads with them. 6.5-30 cals. They have proven to be an exceptional bullet. 
I haven't developed a load that shoots more than 1/2 MOA and have had several go 1/4.  
Performance on Game is exactly what you expect from an expanding bullet.  I keep telling guys, in summary, the perform like an accubond, but are generally more accurate, and have a better BC.
I have not loaded 6mm, but have heard tighter twists are required.

I'm looking forward to the day Sierra release heavy options in 30 and 6.5 cals!

Please feel free to email me at info@blackwatchreloading if I can offer any advive from personal experience. Cheers

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## Tech

My only experience is with the 6.5 130gr GC from a Schultz and Larsen 6.5-284. The load I developed produced groups of .24 MOA at 100m that still hold .44 MOA at 400m. So far the only Red Stag I have shot with them was at 300m and I hit him in the neck about 100mm below the head. The exit hole measured about 23mm. 
Tech

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## Flyblown

@300AAC On your Instagram those are some pretty massive exit wound holes on those smaller deer, eh.

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## 300AAC

A couple are @Flyblown. Different to a Berger explosion. Like i say, more like a accubond. They drop them big time

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## 300AAC



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## 300AAC

Thank you to @shift14 for sending us this from his recent shoot. I'd call it a day there mate!!

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## Mooseman

Must take the 243 out for a walk and try the 90 gr GC bullets, trouble is I like the ELD X range so much it's hard to not take one of the rifles shooting those bullets. Still keen to try the 90 gr ELD X when available … any news on this one yet?

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## 300AAC

Sorry @Mooseman only the 103gr ATM

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## shift14

T


> Thank you to @shift14 for sending us this from his recent shoot. I'd call it a day there mate!!


All good, thanks for your help.

Pic of the plate,  590 yds. All Sierra GameChangers. 7mmRM Blaser R8 group lower left



6.5x55 in the mighty Blaser R8 upper and lower right groups....sloppy shooting on my part.

B

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## Flyblown

I spoke to Steve's wholesale last week @Mooseman... they aren't in the current shipment so earliest would be late June. Annoying!

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## Mooseman

Thanks for that, hope to get an animal with the Game Changers in the mean time.

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## Flyblown

> A couple are @Flyblown. Different to a Berger explosion. Like i say, more like a accubond. They drop them big time


I'm sure they do drop them with exit wounds like that. As a meat hunter I want a bullet to do all the damage internally and preferably not somewhere in the neighbouring district. The GameChanger looks like a very good large game (150kg+++) bullet but gut feel is in 6mm and 6.5mm a softer fragmenting bullet is a better option for fast killing. What has changed in deer design that needs a harder bullet than ProHunter or GameKing?!

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## 300AAC

Plenty of other options out there for you then @Flyblown... Sounds like you are more than happy with your current selection of pro hunters and gamekings, which, by the way, are legendary bullets! Why not stick with what works for you? Of course what works for you isn't always someone else's cup of tea.
I think you'll find the reason for the discussion on this forum, and this thread in particular, is for those guy's looking for real world experience's of something a bit different.

Cheers

J

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## Flyblown

> I think you'll find the reason for the discussion on this forum, and this thread in particular, is for those guy's looking for real world experience's of something a bit different.


A bit different to what Jared? 

Look I see what you're saying, but I just don't buy the underlying design premise that a high BC, hard, controlled expansion style bullet is a great idea, that changes any games. The high bc only helps >400-500m or whatever the relevant range is for the calibre and weight you're looking at. This bullet on our deer at extended ranges - if shot placement isn't spot on - is just going to sail straight through and a lot of the energy is lost. We can agree that proper long range shooting with hard bullets isn't a good idea? 

I put my hand up - no, I haven't used them. Happy to be shot down for that reason alone. I can see you're very pro Sierra with a lot of interaction from them on your Instagram, promoting the brand. I love Sierra bullets and have used them for over 30 years, and I think I do know the reason for this thread in particular... to discuss pros and cons of new designs and risks and hopefully sharing a bit of real world experiences with all sorts of bullet designs in specific applications. Some of us will agree that the new kid on the block must be great across the board, others will be quite skeptical, like you were about the ELD-X!

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## 300AAC

I'm struggling to see what exactly what you are trying to get out of this discussion @Flyblown. It is getting to the point where it feels like you are just posting for the sake of it. 
You speak of the bullet making to large of a wound, yet you are concerned of it pin holing? This bullet is not a Barnes. They expand and expand quickly.
You don't think an increased BC is a factor until 500+ yards?.. I would revisit my ballistic charts and consider climate conditions and bullet velocity on a shot of that distance before making a statement like that..

You obviously have strong opinions on a product, by your own admission you have never used... 
You have researched the product via promotional material, and social media posts. Again drawing your own conclusions from those posts. 
My suggestion to you is if you are so interested in having a strong opinion on any product, try it for yourself, and draw your own conclusions. Then if you still feel the need to voice, your then substantiated conclusions for discussion on a public forum, by all means, fill your boots.

Sierra is not an exclusive product to BlackWatch. Its sold all over the world..
I do like the Game Changers. I am also pro Berger's, Nosler,  Federal, Hornady, Barnes and even Swift! I am pro any product that does what it's designed to do, and does it well.

There are so many strengths of so many designs. There is no "one magic bullet' if that is what you are looking for here??

That is the beauty of tailoring the round a rifle for what you want to achieve. You are only limited by your personal skill and knowledge of reloading.
I take a huge amount of pride in the quality of the products I promote and use at BlackWatch, and providing our customers with absolutely honest, real-world experiences, feedback, and where possible, advice.  I'm not force feeding you anything. If you don't like it... the answer is simple...

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## Tahr

I quite like the colour of the tips. They go well with my latest cammo outfit.

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## Flyblown

Its all good Jared. Always good to have someone with a strong opinion on stuff to argue with. You are welcome to your view, I will stick with mine, which is based on a little more than just social media and promotional material. Just please make sure you don't make it too personal, no need for that.

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## bigbear

@Flyblown you might be interested in this.
Rather then starting a new post this is my results using the sako 7mmRM 165GR Sierra's GameChanger
All i want is a 0 -600m gun doing my bit. With the ammo and reloading shortage i have ended starting with a box of hornady precision ammo and had some good results from a neck shot a 10y to a poor shot at 520y (me not reading drop chart properly resulting in a high shot just under the spin) a couple big body reds at 250y dropping on the spot. Also a couple of not so good shots from my young fella. 1 320y shot drifting a little far back and animal running 100m, also another 200y steep decline and bullet going down front shoulder  going 40y requiring a second shot but losing a lot of blood.Also a couple 400y bang flop goats goat and a few deer in between
The eldx doing a lot of damage and 75% projectile staying in the animal

Wanting some cases for latter on i can get some one to reload for me i change over to the  sako 165gr Sierra's (i was told sako brass better then hornady for reloading)
My best shot to date is at 480y on a very big red hind going through both shoulders dropping on the spot leaving a inch exit hole.
A red yearling at 400y going through both front shoulders exiting into the hinds neck standing behind it cutting its throat, both animals needed finishing off.
And a neck shot on a fallow at 200y and other red deer in between 200y -400y all in the front quarter of the animals. A couple of bad bullet placements on a couple not going far,ten meters and one very poor shot by myself at around 400y resulting in a lost animal no blood and nothing to go on.
On all animals the Sierra projectile has exited the animal with no more then a inch exit hole still doing damage.


I am a hunting no a target shooter :Have A Nice Day:  and have no idea about reloading but not far away from having enough components to be able to start looking at getting reloading done.

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