# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  20g ammo advice

## Chippychow

Hi all im not exactly educated when it comes to shotguns however I managed to get my hands on a Savage arms 24v-a combination rifle .222/20g for 30 bucks that needed some work so I managed to get it running nicely so I built a suppressor for it and plan to shot deer with it close range with 00 buckshot but the rounds have to have a wad because of the style of suppressor, I tried a couple of hunting shops to see if they could get me something in but they never got back to me, I have made a 12g suppressor in the same style and it works fine. I have put slugs through the 20g but I defeats the purpose of using a combo rifle, I guess Im asking if anybody knows of 20g 00 buckshot that has a wad or will I have to get somebody to hand load them if thats possible cheers

----------


## rockland

All buckshot ammo has a plastic or fibre wad between powder and shot, or do you mean ammo that uses an over-shot wad instead of a crimp closure?

Winchester, Remington and Federal all make 20g shells with 20 pellets of number 3 buckshot which is a bit bigger than BB. Probably marginal on deer, might do OK on goats close up.
No one makes 20g 00 buckshot shells that I can find. I guess the big pellets wouldn't stack well in the small case.

----------


## Chippychow

> All buckshot ammo has a plastic or fibre wad between powder and shot, or do you mean ammo that uses an over-shot wad instead of a crimp closure?
> 
> Winchester, Remington and Federal all make 20g shells with 20 pellets of number 3 buckshot which is a bit bigger than BB. Probably marginal on deer, might do OK on goats close up.
> No one makes 20g 00 buckshot shells that I can find. I guess the big pellets wouldn't stack well in the small case.


I guess you would call it the wad skirt possibly?? I will up load some photos, also gun city sells imperial #00 rounds and also imperial 9p, I brought some Winchester #3 because it’s all the shop had and cut it open and all it had was plastic granules packed with the shot which I’m not to keen on trying through the suppressor just in case it spreads inside the can,

----------


## MSL

game bore, not sure on the wad though

----------


## Chippychow

> game bore, not sure on the wad though


Hi MSL are you using this ammo and if so where did you buy it from and could open one up to see if it has wad of some sort, maybe I could pour some wax in it mite hold pellets together till it’s outside the can........maybe

----------


## MSL

You can see that there is no containment wad like in a birdshot load, most likely because it is not required, but also because there is not enough clearance to fit it between the shot and the shell. I've used a few, they work. Got these when passing through Rotorua but pretty sure I've seen them at reloaders

----------


## Marty Henry

So the rods in the supressor hold the wad petals shut till they exit the can like a longer barrel, clever that. 
However I do forsee problems with factory loaded buck as its unsupported, or plastic powder packed to prevent damage as theres a lot of space around the pellets.  00 is .33 of an inch in diameter 20 gauge is .61 something, so the pellet is over half the bore diameter and wont nest which is why you cant buy it. In 12 gauge you get 3 layers of 3 pellets that snuggle up nicely. Even then the practical limitation of its range is 10 yards max

----------


## Chippychow

> So the rods in the supressor hold the wad petals shut till they exit the can like a longer barrel, clever that. 
> However I do forsee problems with factory loaded buck as its unsupported, or plastic powder packed to prevent damage as theres a lot of space around the pellets.  00 is .33 of an inch in diameter 20 gauge is .61 something, so the pellet is over half the bore diameter and wont nest which is why you cant buy it. In 12 gauge you get 3 layers of 3 pellets that snuggle up nicely. Even then the practical limitation of its range is 10 yards max


Yea that’s the idea, oh really I thought I mite be able to tip over a deer at 40 yards or so. Have you had any experience with filling them with wax or something, any idea if it would hold together until it was at least out of the can.

----------


## FatLabrador

You got a pic of the gun?

----------


## Marty Henry

> Yea that’s the idea, oh really I thought I mite be able to tip over a deer at 40 yards or so. Have you had any experience with filling them with wax or something, any idea if it would hold together until it was at least out of the can.


Ha Ha, the old bushmans solid, my grandad used to do this with duck shot prise the top open and dribble wax from a candle in till it was full, it used to come out as a solid lump most of the time. I wouldnt risk it in your silencer though.
If it were me Id forget the idea of the silencer for buck shot too much chance of an accident.
As to range, it spreads out like a normal shot load but instead of a couple of hundred pellets you have only 9 so game sized holes occurr pretty quickly. From shooting at paper, I would not use 00 buck past 15 yards, yes the pellets have enough energy 200 ftlb each to drop medium game but they have to hit either in enough numbers or just one somewhere vital to be humane, at 40 yards maybe only 1or 2 might hit an animal.
The 20 gauge I think only goes to no 3 buck and they only weigh 23 grains each compared to the 54 grains of 00 and have only one third the energy even if the speeds the same.
So i would limit buck to goats etc at no further than 15 yards, however a solid from a 20 gauge has a bit of authority and would probably be of more use, would go through the silencer and with rifle sights could be good out to 100 plus. Hope this helps, and yes lets see a photo.
By the way whats the reason for wanting to use buck?

----------


## Chippychow

> Ha Ha, the old bushmans solid, my grandad used to do this with duck shot prise the top open and dribble wax from a candle in till it was full, it used to come out as a solid lump most of the time. I wouldnt risk it in your silencer though.
> If it were me Id forget the idea of the silencer for buck shot too much chance of an accident.
> As to range, it spreads out like a normal shot load but instead of a couple of hundred pellets you have only 9 so game sized holes occurr pretty quickly. From shooting at paper, I would not use 00 buck past 15 yards, yes the pellets have enough energy 200 ftlb each to drop medium game but they have to hit either in enough numbers or just one somewhere vital to be humane, at 40 yards maybe only 1or 2 might hit an animal.
> The 20 gauge I think only goes to no 3 buck and they only weigh 23 grains each compared to the 54 grains of 00 and have only one third the energy even if the speeds the same.
> So i would limit buck to goats etc at no further than 15 yards, however a solid from a 20 gauge has a bit of authority and would probably be of more use, would go through the silencer and with rifle sights could be good out to 100 plus. Hope this helps, and yes lets see a photo.
> By the way whats the reason for wanting to use buck?


Sounds like I’m going to have to stick with solids, I bush hunt a lot and come across deer in close range, 15 yards is probably not really practical though was hoping for 40 or there abouts.

----------


## Marty Henry

You are quite a smart boy! One supressor for two very different barrels. How is the thing attached, how effective is it, and do you make them to order as Im quite intrigued.

----------


## Pointer

Before you blow that poor combo gun up you should sell it to me  :Grin: 

I've used #3 buck on deer maybe only 20 yards distance, it worked well enough. I always keep one or two plus a solid handy when bird hunting in certain spots. Never seen 00 for sale in the 20g.

----------


## 223nut

A combo gun will find its way into my safe one day...

----------


## Chippychow

> You are quite a smart boy! One supressor for two very different barrels. How is the thing attached, how effective is it, and do you make them to order as Im quite intrigued.


It is very snug fit on both barrels and grub screwed top and bottom, I dont have any decibel readings for any sort Im probably going to make some more changes to it for more volume but it definitely makes a difference as for making them to order I havent exactly done any calculations or anything so probably not the safest thing to do haha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Chippychow

> Before you blow that poor combo gun up you should sell it to me 
> 
> I've used #3 buck on deer maybe only 20 yards distance, it worked well enough. I always keep one or two plus a solid handy when bird hunting in certain spots. Never seen 00 for sale in the 20g.


Haha they guy I got it from asked if he could buy it back after I got it going I told him he would have to pry it from my cold dead hands.
I mite have to cook something up or use slugs wounded deer are hard work to find in thick bush, gun city is selling some Imperial brand ones seems to be a little bit uncommon.

----------


## Pointer

Yep any form of buckshot, even 00 out of a twelve bore, is a terrible wounder at best. Slugs are far superior

----------


## FatLabrador

You gonna hunt on doc land?

----------


## Chippychow

Not aloud to hunt doc land with a shotgun, but if I did I would use a slug


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## JWB

> You gonna hunt on doc land?


There is no DoC land. It is our land, and DoC manage it on our behalf. Some would say quite badly!

----------


## Micky Duck

you need #0 buck shot...thats .30 cal not .32 cal as #00 is.... there is/was a guy selling it on trademe..... dont piss around just open up a birdshot load and replace small shot with your buckshot and recrimp it as best you can.... even better still will be find some steel shot loads as these will have a very stout wadcup to protect barrel....
#7 buckshot is about .22cal and works good up close too.
mate had that very same combi  and used it on wallabies with #2 shot very effective.

----------


## gsp follower

> *Not aloud to hunt doc land with a shotgun,* but if I did I would use a slug
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lake ellys doc land and i got doc permits for me and my 20 gauge lead polluteingno good steel fiding bane of all waterfowl :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 
at least until 20 21 waaa
im having a cunt of a time getting proper waterfowl steel to try to.
didnt i see remington 18 pellet triple ought 20 gauge buck somewhere????
dont know if its wadded tho.
 but id guess yes remy makes good shotty  ammo
if your clever enough to make that muzzle heavy and unweldy tho it looks.
reloading somme 20 gauge loads to suit will be a piece of piddle.

----------


## Micky Duck

if you ever see an old lee handloader/whackamole set n .20 ga grab it quick smart....loading shotgun shell with one is a doddle.

----------


## Chippychow

> if you ever see an old lee handloader/whackamole set n .20 ga grab it quick smart....loading shotgun shell with one is a doddle.


I’ll defiantly keep and eye out for one or maybe find some measurements for one and machine up the parts, looks easy enough

----------


## Chippychow

> lake ellys doc land and i got doc permits for me and my 20 gauge lead polluteingno good steel fiding bane of all waterfowl
> at least until 20 21 waaa
> im having a cunt of a time getting proper waterfowl steel to try to.
> didnt i see remington 18 pellet triple ought 20 gauge buck somewhere????
> dont know if its wadded tho.
>  but id guess yes remy makes good shotty  ammo
> if your clever enough to make that muzzle heavy and unweldy tho it looks.
> reloading somme 20 gauge loads to suit will be a piece of piddle.



Will defiantly try and cook something up will only blow the can off the end of it goes wrong haha

----------


## Micky Duck

> I’ll defiantly keep and eye out for one or maybe find some measurements for one and machine up the parts, looks easy enough


 its a bugger you so far away or Id lend you one of my 12ga kits to get the gist of whats needed and lyman shotgun manual for measurements and load data... BASICALLY the primer gets poked out base of case with a nail into hole drilled in flat surface....primer placed by hand into pocket and pushed in by tapping down on flat surface...a dowel with hole slightly bigger than primer slid down inside case will do this bit.
powder measured out and put in,plastic wad put in and pushed down,shot put in, case then closed.the crimp starter is taperd hole with wee bumps inside to push hull into shape,either 6 or 8 star. you can do this by hand with used hulls. then star is pushed down onto shot with hull held in what is basically a chambersized tube and dowel like bit tapped to finish pushing star inwards and down...the whole trick is to have hull filled to correct lever so star closes and drops SLIGHTLY or rolls inwards if you like but star crimp stays firm.... if you look at early steel loads like winchester Xpert they have seared /melted star crimp shut.
being a break open gun you can get away with a lot as crimp doesnt need to be flash to chamber it...sure your lbs per inch of compression isnt going to be right.
easiest way will be to buy load of birdshot that has a wad in it and open crimp CAREFULLY with small screwdriver etc tip out birdshot and replace with buckshot...you CANT overload case with buckshot as the airspace between balls is greater than with the smaller shot so payload will be less. try smallest sinkers you can buy from warehouse if you cant source buckshot elsewhere...they work. the .410 is another guage that is served well with buckshot...man is that easy to put together.

----------


## gsp follower

[QUOTE.]..*you CANT overload case with buckshot as the airspace between balls is greater than with the smaller shot so payload will be less*. try smallest sinkers you can buy from warehouse if you cant source buckshot elsewhere...they work. the .410 is another guage that is served well with buckshot...man is that easy to put together. ][/QUOTE]

jesus micky i dont know if that logic holds :Grin: 
better would be to wiegh the buckshot pellets and get a 20 gauge load thats close as possible to that wieght.
over wieght would reqire less powder to start with to keep pressure down and you could build up to a hotter load.
if the bucks  way lighter than the emptied out birdshot load that could be hairy to.

----------


## Micky Duck

gsp follower......even the lee slug is only an once in .12ga....... and that is more dense. hang on a tick I will check my lyman manual.

----------


## Micky Duck

ok you will have to read slowly as I cant type fast....
00buck 0.33" 53.8grains 8 pellets per once
0buck 0.32" 49.0 grains 9 pellets per once
1 buck 0.30"  40.5 grains 10 pellets per once
4buck 0.24" 20.7 grains  21 pellets per once

so unless you being a right dork and trying to stuff in more than will practically fit..you WONT overload a case. and the wee sinkers from warehouse actually have weight written on them
I think its the 1/8th oz ones we use for drowning worms.

----------


## gsp follower

> ok you will have to read slowly as I cant type fast....
> 00buck 0.33" 53.8grains 8 pellets per once
> 0buck 0.32" 49.0 grains 9 pellets per once
> 1 buck 0.30"  40.5 grains 10 pellets per once
> 4buck 0.24" 20.7 grains  21 pellets per once
> 
> so unless you being a right dork and trying to stuff in more than will practically fit..you WONT overload a case. and the wee sinkers from warehouse actually have weight written on them
> I think its the 1/8th oz ones we use for drowning worms.


perfect micky wieght for wieght rather than guestimating volume.
you missed my favourite tho ''triple ought buck'
 i just love the way that rolls of the tongue especialy the dukes.
the problem lies in that cases are not the length they say ie 2 3/4 is closer to 3 and a bit and 3 inch is 3 and a half almost to allow for the crimp.
but it could also trap a novice into stuffing more in than he should but sticking to the wieght for wieght route is safer. :Grin:

----------


## Micky Duck

just got to watch data like this on charts as different places use one size either way....#4 buck is good wallaby medicine.

----------


## Chippychow

> ok you will have to read slowly as I cant type fast....
> 00buck 0.33" 53.8grains 8 pellets per once
> 0buck 0.32" 49.0 grains 9 pellets per once
> 1 buck 0.30"  40.5 grains 10 pellets per once
> 4buck 0.24" 20.7 grains  21 pellets per once
> 
> so unless you being a right dork and trying to stuff in more than will practically fit..you WONT overload a case. and the wee sinkers from warehouse actually have weight written on them
> I think its the 1/8th oz ones we use for drowning worms.



I think cant see myself using the 20g enough to justify buying a reloading setup for it I do like the idea of swapping out the birdshot for sinkers or whatever I can find sounds simple enough and the defiantly have a wad.

----------


## gsp follower

> https://images.remington-catalog.com..._750x340_2.jpg


this stuff be perfect if you can find any


> Rebates & Promotions
> Warranty Registration
> Support
> About
> Co-op
> Partners
> 
> Rifles
> Shotguns
> ...


comes in 20 gauge and is wadded

----------


## Chippychow

> this stuff be perfect if you can find any
> comes in 20 gauge and is wadded



Looks good can’t find any online in nz though

----------


## gsp follower

> Looks good can’t find any online in nz though


yea sorry i dont even know who the remington agent is anymore. :Oh Noes: 
someone here might tho.

----------


## tetawa

Last outfit that had Remington was "OUTDOOR BRANDS" in Penrose Auckland. If you want anything out of the ordinary needs to be ordered 12 months before you want it. Hopeless outfit that does their best to dodge warranty claims.

----------


## gsp follower

20ga Rio #4 70mm Buckshot

ON
SALE!
847000
From:



didnt see this stuff last time any good to you.??

----------


## Chippychow

> 20ga Rio #4 70mm Buckshot
> 
> ON
> SALE!
> 847000
> From:
> 
> 
> 
> didnt see this stuff last time any good to you.??



Was hoping for somthing in the ought range, I mite just give some buckshot a go even though it will have no wad gunsmith seems to think it will be all good......

----------


## The bomb

Think I have one of the old lee loaders in 20g in the garage somewhere you are welcome to borrow it to test your theory.

----------


## Woody

Many years ago I gave a hind both barrels of buckshot from a 12 ga at about 20 yards range. I will never try it again. 10 yards max I reckon.

----------


## csmiffy

Fellow shooter with me on a trip back in the 90's to shoot a smaller species of deer (cant say where) had a Winchester pump and put 3 rounds at/in it of buckshot before it dropped. 
From memory it was the defender model and if so it would've been a very open choke so not so flash maybe. No further than 20 yards I believe.
Why do the Americans love them so much? Must be tight bloody scrub to get the best out of them. I also realise that they shotgun only seasons and some of the new slugs that are being brought out look truly devastating.

----------


## Woody

Slugs for game I reckon. 
Reserve the buckshot for sawn offs carried by stagecoach guards and similar close range defense.

----------


## csmiffy

Mind you some of the ones with 4 big petals look like they'd drive a hole the size of your fist through whatever you hit.

----------


## Marty Henry

Grue sent me a couple of 12 gauge "air rifle pellets" that fit in a std plastic wad cup, yet to load them but they look quite intimidating and i expect accuracy to be good due to their design.

----------


## gsp follower

id hate to get hit by some of those sabotted slugs shaped like a hour glass.
got some federal 20 gauge slugs just in casea pig or deer shows up again down the river

----------


## Micky Duck

just got to watch data like this on charts as different places use one size either way....#4 buck is good wallaby medicine.

----------


## Chippychow

> ok you will have to read slowly as I cant type fast....
> 00buck 0.33" 53.8grains 8 pellets per once
> 0buck 0.32" 49.0 grains 9 pellets per once
> 1 buck 0.30"  40.5 grains 10 pellets per once
> 4buck 0.24" 20.7 grains  21 pellets per once
> 
> so unless you being a right dork and trying to stuff in more than will practically fit..you WONT overload a case. and the wee sinkers from warehouse actually have weight written on them
> I think its the 1/8th oz ones we use for drowning worms.



I think cant see myself using the 20g enough to justify buying a reloading setup for it I do like the idea of swapping out the birdshot for sinkers or whatever I can find sounds simple enough and the defiantly have a wad.

----------


## gsp follower

> https://images.remington-catalog.com..._750x340_2.jpg


this stuff be perfect if you can find any


> Rebates & Promotions
> Warranty Registration
> Support
> About
> Co-op
> Partners
> 
> Rifles
> Shotguns
> ...


comes in 20 gauge and is wadded

----------


## Chippychow

> this stuff be perfect if you can find any
> comes in 20 gauge and is wadded



Looks good can’t find any online in nz though

----------


## gsp follower

> Looks good can’t find any online in nz though


yea sorry i dont even know who the remington agent is anymore. :Oh Noes: 
someone here might tho.

----------


## tetawa

Last outfit that had Remington was "OUTDOOR BRANDS" in Penrose Auckland. If you want anything out of the ordinary needs to be ordered 12 months before you want it. Hopeless outfit that does their best to dodge warranty claims.

----------


## gsp follower

20ga Rio #4 70mm Buckshot

ON
SALE!
847000
From:



didnt see this stuff last time any good to you.??

----------


## Chippychow

> 20ga Rio #4 70mm Buckshot
> 
> ON
> SALE!
> 847000
> From:
> 
> 
> 
> didnt see this stuff last time any good to you.??



Was hoping for somthing in the ought range, I mite just give some buckshot a go even though it will have no wad gunsmith seems to think it will be all good......

----------


## The bomb

Think I have one of the old lee loaders in 20g in the garage somewhere you are welcome to borrow it to test your theory.

----------


## Woody

Many years ago I gave a hind both barrels of buckshot from a 12 ga at about 20 yards range. I will never try it again. 10 yards max I reckon.

----------


## csmiffy

Fellow shooter with me on a trip back in the 90's to shoot a smaller species of deer (cant say where) had a Winchester pump and put 3 rounds at/in it of buckshot before it dropped. 
From memory it was the defender model and if so it would've been a very open choke so not so flash maybe. No further than 20 yards I believe.
Why do the Americans love them so much? Must be tight bloody scrub to get the best out of them. I also realise that they shotgun only seasons and some of the new slugs that are being brought out look truly devastating.

----------


## Woody

Slugs for game I reckon. 
Reserve the buckshot for sawn offs carried by stagecoach guards and similar close range defense.

----------


## csmiffy

Mind you some of the ones with 4 big petals look like they'd drive a hole the size of your fist through whatever you hit.

----------


## Marty Henry

Grue sent me a couple of 12 gauge "air rifle pellets" that fit in a std plastic wad cup, yet to load them but they look quite intimidating and i expect accuracy to be good due to their design.

----------


## gsp follower

id hate to get hit by some of those sabotted slugs shaped like a hour glass.
got some federal 20 gauge slugs just in casea pig or deer shows up again down the river

----------

