# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Scope Selection help needed. 223 varmant shooting. Shafted by redfield suppliers

## smidey

Hey team. I need help with what is the best scope for around $500 for my new 223 rifle for varmant type shooting.

I ordered a redfield 4-12x42 with a varmant reticle last week after the suppliers recommended it but they sent a scope with hunter reticle which arrived yesterday. Just heard back from the store this morning, they don't have any varmant reticles left and won't be getting any so sent a hunter instead without telling us. Wankers. there goes my plans for after xmas.

So i'm back to square one, what do you recommend?

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## 7mmsaum

redfield battlezone 3-12x44 dial up turrets.

$400 at outdoorsupplies.co.nz

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## nzvermin

The burris ar series scopes are pretty good.

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## sparky1000

Vortex crossfire 2 6-18x44 with bdc reticle $349 from shooters supplies, flipping awesome scope!

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## Carpe Diem

> Vortex crossfire 2 6-18x44 with bdc reticle $349 from shooters supplies, flipping awesome scope!


Yup I have one of these also pretty damn good, or you could try to get a well priced Weaver 40/44 with varmint reticle 6-20x44 both have most excellent glass for the money and great eye relief.

My rem 700 .223 was inherited with a Nikko Diamond 4-12 and I haven't bothered to change it because it works so damn well...

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## smidey

Thanks very much lads, I'll check them out

Sent from my workbench

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## 260rem

> Vortex crossfire 2 6-18x44 with bdc reticle $349 from shooters supplies, flipping awesome scope!


Plus 1 for the vortex scopes

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## kiwi39

Since you're stuffed in the interim, why don't you go for something ordered from the us ?

Otherwise, the Leupold vx3 4.5-14x40 with a varmint reticle. Just a bit more $$ than you wanted to spend, but you won't regret it


Tim

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## smidey

So i've done a bit of research this morning and have four options, what do you guys think of these?

I'm leaning torward the weaver & vortex that have more zoom but have heard good things about the nikons. damn there is a lot of options out there. Anyone know how well the higher zooms work, do they get blurry on full zoom?

Nikon Prostaff BDC 4-12x40 $399
Nikon Prostaff Riflescope 4-12x40

Weaver V Series 4-16x42AO $425
Weaver V-Series 4-16x42 A/O Black Matte STT | Trade Me

Vortex Crossfire II 4-12x40 BDC $355
Vortex 4-12x44 Crossfire II Riflescope (Dead-Hold BDC)

Vortex Crossfire II 4-16x40AO BDC $349
Vortex 6-18x44 AO Crossfire II Riflescope (Dead-Hold BDC)

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## Kscott

Higher quality glass will generally have less of a 'milky' look when fully zoomed up. Also bear in mind the higher the zoom magnification, the more critical your head placement and eye alignment are. 

For the cost, the Vortex Crossfire II looks ok. Spending an extra $70 for a clearer view when fully zoomed in is your call. Just also check you've got good mounts for it too  :Wink:

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## smidey

i've got weaver mounts. Which one do you think will be best glass?

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## foxhound

Leupold mark AR

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## anderset20

Nikon m223 or p223 is another option. Cheaper version of the leupold mark ar but still good scopes. I have a p223 and it does the job nicely


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## smidey

> Leupold mark AR


i could only find them near double what i want to spend, am i missing a cheaper option to buy?

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## Gerbs

> Leupold mark AR





> i could only find them near double what i want to spend, am i missing a cheaper option to buy?


Nah, he's just being a troll. Leupold is OK, but overpriced.
The Vortex CrossfireII 4-12 with AO and BDC is probably your best option at this price point.

Useless knowledge - if you're going to "dial" (using rangefinder and turrents on your scope) to hit targets at range, don't bother with BDC. 
If you're not gonna "dial", then sure, BDC to your hearts content  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Spudattack

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=823658998

Get the monarch over the prostaff any day, this would be my pick!

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## foxhound

> i could only find them near double what i want to spend, am i missing a cheaper option to buy?


I paid around $550 for my leupold mark AR, I was impressed with bushnell AR model too.

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## smidey

> I paid around $550 for my leupold mark AR, I was impressed with bushnell AR model too.


new? off a website?

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## smidey

> NIKON M-223 3- 12 X42 | Trade Me
> 
> Get the monarch over the prostaff any day, this would be my pick!


the monarch is nearly double the price of a prostaff but.

re the 223 nikon.... if i shoot a different bullet to what it is setup for it wouldn't be right would it? 

I will only be using this rifle occasionally, and for rabbits/hares out to 300m and maybe the odd goat hunt. I'll get closer if they are further than that.
I thought i'd get a BDC reticle, zero at 100 and then work out what yardage the lower marks hit at. Hitting the target board with the lower marks at 100 will give me a good idea of what that is based on the specific bullets trajectory so i can test it after that.

how would you set it up if it were you? Ruger all weather 223 with a scope value up to $500 shooting out to 300m.

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## anderset20

Nikon has a thing called "spot on" you can enter your bullet etc and it will tell you what the reticle marks are


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## Spudattack

> the monarch is nearly double the price of a prostaff but.
> 
> re the 223 nikon.... if i shoot a different bullet to what it is setup for it wouldn't be right would it? 
> 
> I will only be using this rifle occasionally, and for rabbits/hares out to 300m and maybe the odd goat hunt. I'll get closer if they are further than that.
> I thought i'd get a BDC reticle, zero at 100 and then work out what yardage the lower marks hit at. Hitting the target board with the lower marks at 100 will give me a good idea of what that is based on the specific bullets trajectory so i can test it after that.
> 
> how would you set it up if it were you? Ruger all weather 223 with a scope value up to $500 shooting out to 300m.




With the 223 Nikons the first letter stands for the range, so the M-223 is a monarch and the p-223 is a prostaff.

The link I posted is a monarch for less than the prostaff, bargain!

With the spot on programme you cab tailor the scope to any bullet or load you want or change the turrets out to custom (order through the spot on program) or standard ones.



Monarchs are a bargain as far as value goes, glass is up there with vx3s and they dial really well.

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## smidey

> Nikon has a thing called "spot on" you can enter your bullet etc and it will tell you what the reticle marks are
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


wow, just used it and that is awesome. thanks a bunch for that info, think that might be the deciding factor. Save a lot of messing around

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## smidey

i think this should work well. seems like a good system to me

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## foxhound

> new? off a website?


New through retail sports store

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## smidey

I ended up buying a vortex diamondback 4-12 with bdc as I found an app that I entered scope and bullet info into and gave me the yardage for the post marks. Very happy

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## Proudkiwi

What chrony did you use to get that velocity for the 55gr power shok load?

Seems wildly...........optimistic!

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## northdude

ive heard that some of the scopes glass is actually plastic is that true

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## smidey

> What chrony did you use to get that velocity for the 55gr power shok load?
> 
> Seems wildly...........optimistic!


You questioning the speed?

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## Proudkiwi

Yup.

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## smidey

so what's the issue? i have a pack of hornady 223 55gr and the box says 3240fps. that info you see above is from a drop table selection listing hundreds of factory ammo types. from that table there are several horandy 223 rounds with 3240fps. 

I'm not sure what i'm missing, can you enlighten me?

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## Kiwi-Hunter

.223 Remington
Worth a read.
KH

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## smidey

Interesting it says that fmj is the best for killing 

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## Proudkiwi

> so what's the issue? i have a pack of hornady 223 55gr and the box says 3240fps. that info you see above is from a drop table selection listing hundreds of factory ammo types. from that table there are several horandy 223 rounds with 3240fps. 
> 
> I'm not sure what i'm missing, can you enlighten me?


Typically the velocities printed on the boxes are massively inflated. I have seen variances of over 400fps.

I will be pretty surprised if your load is actually doing over 3000fps.

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## smidey

Ok sweet, I have no way of knowing either way but that's what it says

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## Dougie

> Ok sweet, I have no way of knowing either way but that's what it says
> 
> Sent from my workbench


Borrow the forum Chrony if you're really interested :-) 

I've also found that box ammo has a whole lot of bullshit written over it (mate's .270 stuff said 3000fps on the box, chrony' d at a sluggish 2600!) 

Hand loaded .223 will happily hum at 3200 though. I might know a good reloading guy for you if you're interested... 


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## Spudattack

You can borrow mine if you want, I need to run some loads through it too and I am just up the road. Pm me if you keen to use it sometime.

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## smidey

I guess the issue is knowing what's right and what's bullshit. I wonder how much info is accurate.

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## smidey

> You can borrow mine if you want, I need to run some loads through it too and I am just up the road. Pm me if you keen to use it sometime.


Thanks very much, I'll do that. I've found that Hornady training works well in my 223 and I'm using the strelok app for my vortex scope so if I know what the speed actually is it should make it more accurate for the yardage of the bdc markers. 
I'm waiting on some more ammo to arrive so I'll contact you when I'm ready thanks

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## smidey

So this is what strelok tells me three markers should be for my Hornady training based on a guess of 2700GPS rather than the 3250 or what ever the box says.
I get to actually test the ammo on Sunday, looking forward to it a lot.

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## smidey

Learning so much about ballistics etc, really enjoying it
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## smidey

> What chrony did you use to get that velocity for the 55gr power shok load?
> 
> Seems wildly...........optimistic!


  @Proudkiwi 
I put some rounds through the chrony today at the Whangarei DSA range.
Hornady 223 REM 55gr SP item #80255. My older boxes with "TRAINING" have the same item number, new box labels don't state training.
Ruger American All Weather SS 22" barrel 1:8 twist
3120
3114
3124
3119
3128
3144
3174
3175
3184
3181
3171
Avg: 3148.5

The final 3 rounds grouped like this at 100m

  @Spudattack - thanks so much for the invite and use of your chrony, had an awesome time.

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## Spudattack

No worries, was a great day! Good to meet you guys too!

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## Proudkiwi

> @Proudkiwi 
> I put some rounds through the chrony today at the Whangarei DSA range.
> Hornady 223 REM 55gr SP item #80255. My older boxes with "TRAINING" have the same item number, new box labels don't state training.
> Ruger American All Weather SS 22" barrel 1:8 twist
> 3120
> 3114
> 3124
> 3119
> 3128
> ...


That's much better than I expected. A very usable velocity from factory ammo that clearly shoots well in your rifle. Good times  :Have A Nice Day:

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## smidey

> That's much better than I expected. A very usable velocity from factory ammo that clearly shoots well in your rifle. Good times


i looked on the hornady website the other day and read they test the velocity with a 24" barrel so perhaps that would be a little quicker retaining it a little longer.

First time shooting at a range today and am very happy with what i can do and knowing it's sighted in spot on is great.

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## smidey

So this is what strelok tells me is the go with the speed info


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