# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Free E's ..... we'll almost

## P38

Just in case you haven't seen this.

Here we go again with Free E's for anyone who is interested enough to upgrade their security.  :Thumbsup: 

Important Changes to Arms Act 1983: semi-automatic firearm, air rifle or air pistol | New Zealand Police

Time to fill your boots ...... But you have to be in before 11th June 2014   :Have A Nice Day: 

Cheers
Pete

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## veitnamcam

And already have a E cat rifle or shot gun?

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## Steve338

Apparently not, will need safe thats all i am told

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## veitnamcam

Interesting.

I wonder how long it would take,been in new place 6months and still haven't had my security checked.

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## Eion

Let me know how you get on with the AO if you decide to do it VC. If you're successful I might have a crack too.

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## mikee

> Interesting.
> 
> I wonder how long it would take,been in new place 6months and still haven't had my security checked.


However you would need an E to even try shooting service rifle, 3 gun etc etc or whatever. At present legally you couldn't even come to the range and have a try shooting one of mine with out the E endorsement or PTP. 

If we were hunting together you legally could not even look after it for me while I crossed a fence etc, such is the stupidity of these rules

If ya need a referee let me know eh.

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## veitnamcam

My mate in aussi needs to buy a safe so his rifles are not cluttering up my safe.
Might see if i can talk him into getting an ecat one :Have A Nice Day:

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## P38

> However you would need an E to even try shooting service rifle, 3 gun etc etc or whatever. At present legally you couldn't even come to the range and have a try shooting one of mine with out the E endorsement or PTP. 
> 
> If we were hunting together you legally could not even look after it for me while I crossed a fence etc, such is the stupidity of these rules
> 
> If ya need a referee let me know eh.


Sadly you are correct Mikee  :Sad: 

In most cases you only have to change the stock and your good to go.

Just goes to show how dumb these laws really are.

However I do encourage all to get their E endorsement while they can, you never know when things may change in the future.

Cheers
Pete

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## mikee

> However I do encourage all to get their E endorsement while they can, you never know when things may change in the future.
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


Definitly if you have / can get the security then go for it

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## veitnamcam

Ill be lookin into a safe for sure.

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## Nibblet

> My mate in au si needs to buy a safe so his rifles are not cluttering up my safe.
> Might see if i can talk him into getting an ecat one


Get him to buy you something like this 
Kilwell E Cat 10 Gun Safe Key Lock

Tell him he needs to get me one too for NI stored rifles  :Thumbsup:  
I was told you can also use referees of farms that you cull on for reason why you need e?

Funny thread title though, every time I read it I think it's party time.

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## savageshooter

I wonder how many safes are in the country for all these new E cat holders.

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## Nibblet

Yeah retailers must be loving it. I think a lot of people will stay a-cat though.
Much easier to get a stock off digit. Way cheaper too.

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## Kscott

_... curiously wonders just how many applying for an E will actually be granted one . . ._   :Wink:

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## mikee

> _... curiously wonders just how many applying for an E will actually be granted one . . ._



Exactly...........................................  .......and............................the cynical part of me wonders whether this will give someone some thing to follow up on when they (might) be declined. 

Especially since 

"just because it was legally purchased at the time but now its not and just because you want to remain on the right side of the  AND keep your rifle" 

appears NOT to be a valid reason.  At least not according to the info I have seen

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## savageshooter

Naa I dont think youll have too many dramas, itll be like 1992 and 2010?all over again

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## dogmatix

My view is at the end of the day, the Police won't be fussed handing the MSSA endorsements out for free subject to security conditions, because:

A. They will a greater idea of who owns 'evil black rifles'.
B. There is an increased level of firearms security for many from what they had previously.

Its a win-win for the Police.

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## Kscott

It certainly has the potential. But more E owners = more workload with only the same resources (currently) allocated to it  :Wink:    I wonder what the % of successful applications in the past has been ? Folks I know who have their E certainly had no problem getting it, but that was primarily because of 3 Gun, rather than just a want to have.

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## Beavis

Nobody I know have had difficulty, even one who was worried about a dodgy past.

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## P38

> Nobody I know have had difficulty, even one who was worried about a dodgy past.


Yep

All I know who have applied have been successful.

Dogmatix is right it's win-win for police.

Cheers
Pete

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## Nate

Just got my e-cat safe and picked up the endorsement application. Now will I need a referee who already has the E-endorsement? I have put down hunting/culling as one of my reasons for wanting the endorsement but now I see I will need a letter from a land owner giving permission to hunt/cull on their land. Anyone own a farm and keen to "give me permission" to cull bunnies/goats on their land? After spending $720 on a safe and 3k on a rifle im pretty keen to follow through with the endorsement haha.
Hopefully I can get the endorsement before the roar!

Cheers guys

Nate

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## savageshooter

> Just got my e-cat safe and picked up the endorsement application. Now will I need a referee who already has the E-endorsement? I have put down hunting/culling as one of my reasons for wanting the endorsement but now I see I will need a letter from a land owner giving permission to hunt/cull on their land. Anyone own a farm and keen to "give me permission" to cull bunnies/goats on their land? After spending $720 on a safe and 3k on a rifle im pretty keen to follow through with the endorsement haha.
> Hopefully I can get the endorsement before the roar!
> 
> Cheers guys
> 
> Nate


Is this guff about culling on the application form Nate?

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## Nate

Hey bud, 

Yup on the back of the form under Referees the 3rd one states..

" Person who has given permission for hunting/culling activity and/or land owner (phone/letter)- if hunting is contemplated"

Ill see if I can find an online copy and post it on here for anyone who's interested.

Nate.

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## Nate

http://www.police.govt.nz/sites/defa...l-67h-form.pdf

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## savageshooter

> Hey bud, 
> 
> Yup on the back of the form under Referees the 3rd one states..
> 
> " Person who has given permission for hunting/culling activity and/or land owner (phone/letter)- if hunting is contemplated"
> 
> Ill see if I can find an online copy and post it on here for anyone who's interested.
> 
> Nate.



Thank you...Hmm I see, they have written a new form, I suppose the old one did need some updating. They no longer ask you what magazines you subscribe to and what calibres you reload.

Does it say on there your refs must have an E cat? Cant see it..then again my eyes are a bit funny.  You should be able to use people with A cat, give the Arms officer a call.

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## P38

I'd be tempted to put down Nick Smith as a referee, his numbers in the book, after all you will be shooting on conservation land.

Cheers
Pete

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## Beetroot

If one had a pistol grip stock on a 10/22, is there any reason they would be granted an ecat for that?
Or will they just be told, nope no reason to have a pistol gr on that, make it acat.

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## Beavis

Would be hilarious if all the people that get denied an E endorsement for not having sufficient reasons banded together and took it to court.

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## Beavis

> If one had a pistol grip stock on a 10/22, is there any reason they would be granted an ecat for that?
> Or will they just be told, nope no reason to have a pistol gr on that, make it acat.


If you can show you use it for culling on a farm go for it.

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## Moutere

No, it doesn't even ask for a licenced referee, let alone some one with an endorsed licence anymore.

Sounds too Australian having to demontsrate permission/access for land to hunt on.

Very good idea including DOC estate.




> Thank you...Hmm I see, they have written a new form, I suppose the old one did need some updating. They no longer ask you what magazines you subscribe to and what calibres you reload.
> 
> Does it say on there your refs must have an E cat? Cant see it..then again my eyes are a bit funny.  You should be able to use people with A cat, give the Arms officer a call.

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## Nate

Some very good ideas coming out, im going to use the same A-cat ref as I did last time and ill contact DOC on their position in giving a ref to people wishing to hunt on DOC land.

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## mikee

> Some very good ideas coming out, im going to use the same A-cat ref as I did last time and ill contact DOC on their position in giving a ref to people wishing to hunt on DOC land.


Attach you hunting permit, It's written permission to hunt on DOC administered land surely?

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## savageshooter

> No, it doesn't even ask for a licenced referee, let alone some one with an endorsed licence anymore.
> 
> Sounds too Australian having to demontsrate permission/access for land to hunt on.
> 
> Very good idea including DOC estate.




Quite right.

I think the aussies got the idea from the poms, you need a letter fro mthe land owner and the rifle you purchase and calibre and only be used on tjhat land ever if you get permission on another place as well its a bullshit system I couldnt live in such a place with so many laws and cameras.

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## savageshooter

> If one had a pistol grip stock on a 10/22, is there any reason they would be granted an ecat for that?
> Or will they just be told, nope no reason to have a pistol gr on that, make it acat.


Yep you can apply and should be granted it. no reason why not, you cant be  forced to make it a cat. E cat is e cat regardless of calibre or type, everyone could change gribs on any gun on a 10/22 its not different.

I moved my 10/22 over to E with the while bumhole fiasco, its still got a thumbhole but I get ot use a big mag if I so wish.

Or course registration can always end up being confiscation as has been seen in the UK Australia now california is calling for registration od guns and mags.
I get all those crims registered theres too.

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## Nate

You are right, it does give permission but what name and number can I put down?

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## P38

> You are right, it does give permission but what name and number can I put down?


Nick Smith Minister of Conservation.

His contact details are on the NZ government website.

Cheers
Pete

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## Nate

> Nick Smith Minister of Conservation.
> 
> His contact details are on the NZ government website.
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


Ok will do, ill submit everything tomorrow and ill update everyone on the progress of the application.
Hopefully everything goes smoothly! 

Cheers,

Nate

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## cambo

> Hey bud, 
> 
> Yup on the back of the form under Referees the 3rd one states..
> 
> " Person who has given permission for hunting/culling activity and/or land owner (phone/letter)- if hunting is contemplated"
> 
> Ill see if I can find an online copy and post it on here for anyone who's interested.
> 
> Nate.


The AO here in CHCH told me that he has never accepted a letter and never will. And all my referees (apart form partner) had to be endorsed licence holders and have known me for at least 2yrs.
I didn't try to call him out on that......but I will when I see him next.

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## Monsterbishi

> The AO here in CHCH told me that he has never accepted a letter and never will. And all my referees (apart form partner) had to be endorsed licence holders and have known me for at least 2yrs.
> I didn't try to call him out on that......but I will when I see him next.


Who fed you that tripe?, surely it wasn't the boys at central? Once upon a time, you only needed one of the referee's to also hold a Endorsed FAL, and there wasn't a restriction as to how long they'd known you!

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## cambo

> Who fed you that tripe?, surely it wasn't the boys at central? Once upon a time, you only needed one of the referee's to also hold a Endorsed FAL, and there wasn't a restriction as to how long they'd known you!


It was the man (JB) himself.
I certainly hope I just got him on a bad day, 'cause shit he was grumpy!
That's why I'm leaving taking my application in for a little bit. Hopefully he has had time to chill out.

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## Beavis

It's not uncommon for AO's to be pricks to first timers. Happened to me, happened to friends.

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## Kscott

> Attach you hunting permit, It's written permission to hunt on DOC administered land surely?


So an organisation see that on the form, turn around and ask you "so you're only ever doing day trips for this ?" Think before you answer because there's a trap in it  :Wink:

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## Nate

Hey guys, just got home from speaking with the AO here in Christchurch. After showing him my application and hunting permit he just told me to use another friend with a Firearms licence as a referee instead of Nick Smith.
The only thing he was really interested in was security. So after putting down my partner and 2 Refs with A-cat licences he was happy. Only thing left to do is have my safe looked at and an interview.
Unfortunately one of my refs lives in Auckland so he said it may take a while..
Another good thing he told me was i can continue hunting with my rifle even though its now e-cat because of the 6 month grace period. (might have been common knowledge but i just found out haha)

Now the waiting game..

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## 308

Thanks Nate, I'm jumping through these hoops soon and it's good to know

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## Nate

> Thanks Nate, I'm jumping through these hoops soon and it's good to know


No probs mate  :Have A Nice Day:

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## AzumitH

Yeah cheers for laying this out, there are many who will be going through these motions (myself included), and it will be good to see what is required where.

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## Recoil

I put an application in on the 9th December at Wellington Central, haven't heard anything back yet.

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## savageshooter

> I put an application in on the 9th December at Wellington Central, haven't heard anything back yet.


Naa it'll take a while plus they have all been away over xmas.

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## Monsterbishi

My approval arrived today, and I had my Pol67x in the first day that they would take them...

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## AzumitH

My application paperwork turned up today, requested them on Tuesday maybe?  Pretty snappy so far.

A quick read through reveals a lot of "Why do you _need_ this MSSA?", "Why _can't_ you use a sporting configuration?"

Maybe because I would like to and if I was unfit to do so you shouldn't have given me a firearms license in the first place?

Oh well, gotta play the game I guess.

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## cambo

> My approval arrived today, and I had my Pol67x in the first day that they would take them...


When I handed my app in last week, they wanted the pol67x in at the same time.

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## Monsterbishi

> When I handed my app in last week, they wanted the pol67x in at the same time.


Just to Clarify, I only had to fill in a pol67x - as I already have my E-cat

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## dogmatix

> When I handed my app in last week, they wanted the pol67x in at the same time.


Same here. When I told them I was following the instructions, they said it speeds up the process to do both at once!
So they told me to have it ready when they do the inspection, as well as a new photo, as my old one is 9 years old.

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## Beavis

Applied for mine the day of the law change. Haven't heard anything.

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## dogmatix

That doesn't fill me with hope that mine will be done any time soon, although Akl Central said the vetting person has my details.

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## seano

From day of application to completion it took two weeks for me ,including the 3 referee's interviews and mine and home security check ... have been told will be in the mail withn 10-14 days  :Thumbsup:

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## savageshooter

> From day of application to completion it took two weeks for me ,including the 3 referee's interviews and mine and home security check ... have been told will be in the mail withn 10-14 days


Lucky, that must be some kind of record! Now snap up al lthe AR's you can find!

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## Kscott

I think I'm about to buckle to peer pressure  :Grin:

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## Recoil

Had security check and interview, all went well.

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## Kscott

Were they picky on your reasons ?

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## Ryan

> Were they picky on your reasons ?


I'm interested to know this too.

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## Ryan

> Were they picky on your reasons ?


I'm interested to know this too.

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## Nate

E-Cat all done, would have been a lot faster if I hadn't been busy with work, from start to finish it was only about a month. Didn't need an e-endorsed ref I just used two A-Endorsed refs and my partner with no licence. I used 3 Gun shoot, hunting/culling and recreational shooting for my reasons. Gun safe was $700 from gun City and had to be bolted to the floor and wall with 12mm concrete anchors. Took like 20 mins all up and only cost $17 for the drill bit. Very easy process and FREE! 

Nate

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## seano

> E-Cat all done, would have been a lot faster if I hadn't been busy with work, from start to finish it was only about a month. Didn't need an e-endorsed ref I just used two A-Endorsed refs and my partner with no licence. I used 3 Gun shoot, hunting/culling and recreational shooting for my reasons. Gun safe was $700 from gun City and had to be bolted to the floor and wall with 12mm concrete anchors. Took like 20 mins all up and only cost $17 for the drill bit. Very easy process and FREE! 
> 
> Nate


Yes I enjoyed the "Free" part  :Thumbsup:

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## P38

> E-Cat all done, would have been a lot faster if I hadn't been busy with work, from start to finish it was only about a month. Didn't need an e-endorsed ref I just used two A-Endorsed refs and my partner with no licence. I used 3 Gun shoot, hunting/culling and recreational shooting for my reasons. Gun safe was $700 from gun City and had to be bolted to the floor and wall with 12mm concrete anchors. Took like 20 mins all up and only cost $17 for the drill bit. Very easy process and FREE! 
> 
> Nate


Good on Ya Nate  :Thumbsup:

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## Beavis

Got my interview this arvo

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## Ryan

> Got my interview this arvo


How'd it go?

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## Beavis

Interview was nothing, just need the AO to review my safe location before it gets signed off.

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## Beavis

The interview is just the A cat interview again

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## dogmatix

Sweet.

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## donalexander

Hey Guys just filled my application in today, already have a couple of safes so good to go, will keep you updated

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## savageshooter

> The interview is just the A cat interview again


For your E?????

maybe they arent bothering at the mo.

For any endorsment they bring out this new book, yes a book that contains the interview everything from what locks you have on your doors and windows to how much you drink per week. Even the new A cat interview has changed asking if anyone with a so called mental illness comes to your house, all very quite intrusive and outside of the arms act, its all police policy written by university nuts that dont know buckshot from bullshit!

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## Banana

Did you guys get the question, "What are your responsibilities when using a firearm for hunting or self defence?"  
It's a trick question isn't it?

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## Beavis

Yes the interview for myself and my referees was the same as done for an A cat license. Didn't even ask why I needed MSSA's (well the application form does). I was asked "what do you know about your rights regarding self defense". I basically said if you're gonna shoot somebody in self defense you can only do so if you feel your life is in immediate danger. The answer they are looking for is - you can use reasonable force, and because of our storage laws, it is impractical to keep a gun for home defense, because the police think that if you can quickly access a firearm during a home invasion, you probably aren't storing your firearms and ammunition in accordance with the act. No guns for self defense basically.

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## Lono

> Yes the interview for myself and my referees was the same as done for an A cat license. Didn't even ask why I needed MSSA's (well the application form does). I was asked "what do you know about your rights regarding self defense". I basically said if you're gonna shoot somebody in self defense you can only do so if you feel your life is in immediate danger. The answer they are looking for is - you can use reasonable force, and because of our storage laws, it is impractical to keep a gun for home defense, because the police think that if you can quickly access a firearm during a home invasion, you probably aren't storing your firearms and ammunition in accordance with the act. No guns for self defense basically.


Interesting. Cheers for this.

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## savageshooter

> Yes the interview for myself and my referees was the same as done for an A cat license. Didn't even ask why I needed MSSA's (well the application form does). I was asked "what do you know about your rights regarding self defense". I basically said if you're gonna shoot somebody in self defense you can only do so if you feel your life is in immediate danger. The answer they are looking for is - you can use reasonable force, and because of our storage laws, it is impractical to keep a gun for home defense, because the police think that if you can quickly access a firearm during a home invasion, you probably aren't storing your firearms and ammunition in accordance with the act. No guns for self defense basically.


I got a different answer entirely, you can use a firearm for defence, but police may decide to charge you regardless.

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## 308

Thanks for the heads up

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## Beavis

Oh yea he said you could use a firearm for sure, it all depends on the circumstance how they would view it. It isn't a big deal with regard to the interview, just don't say "there's a gun stashed in every corner of my house", you might not get it.

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## Vapour

If I remember - the interview was basically the A cat one again with 1 page at the end for the E cat part

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## veitnamcam

Just listened to the regions new AO at deerstalkers meeting, Firstly was surprised at the area he has to cover Hast up and round to Kiakoura!

One thing he said more than once is "hunting" IS now a valid reason for wanting an "E" endorsment

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## mikee

> Just listened to the regions new AO at deerstalkers meeting, Firstly was surprised at the area he has to cover Hast up and round to Kiakoura!
> 
> One thing he said more than once is "hunting" IS now a valid reason for wanting an "E" endorsment


Wooho, now how and how much does it cost to join the DS

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## veitnamcam

> Wooho, now how and how much does it cost to join the DS


Members Morgan and/or Kiwi Greg/Kokako should be able to help there. Cant remember.

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## Chop3r

$ 90 odd bucks? Long time since I was a member

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## Kscott

NZDA Auckland Branch
Auckland branch is $120/year plus $50 joining fee, plus range fees or $40 for unlimited shooting on the range when it's open for shooting.

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## P38

> Just listened to the regions new AO at deerstalkers meeting, Firstly was surprised at the area he has to cover Hast up and round to Kiakoura!
> 
> One thing he said more than once is "hunting" IS now a valid reason for wanting an "E" endorsment


VC

I put down the following valid reasons for E Cat

Pest Control
Hunting
3 Gun Matches
Target Shooting
And any other Lawful Use.

All signed off on my lifetime licence for another ten years  :Have A Nice Day: 

Cheers
Pete

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## savageshooter

> NZDA Auckland Branch
> Auckland branch is $120/year plus $50 joining fee, plus range fees or $40 for unlimited shooting on the range when it's open for shooting.


Damn thats a bit more than the Hutt valley branch......

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## mikee

> Just listened to the regions new AO at deerstalkers meeting, Firstly was surprised at the area he has to cover Hast up and round to Kiakoura!
> 
> One thing he said more than once is "hunting" IS now a valid reason for wanting an "E" endorsment


Great, I have been considering giving up my B endorsement for a awhile but want to retain my E, might have to go in and have a chat with him. Kinda lost interest in that 9pistol shooting) dept for now.  Not enough free time to do it, Sporting clays, Gamebird hunting, Hunting (damn you VC), Rifle shooting and still go fishing. 12 visits a year are hard to squeeze in.

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## veitnamcam

Yea I would like a B but realistically I will never be able to fulfill the range requirements until I retire and by that stage Id say they will only be seen in museums.

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## Moutere

The pistol club in New Plymouth used to do a midweek .22 shoot at the small bore club in town, helped to free up the weekends for other endeavours.
Not sure if they still do it, but it was good idea.




> Great, I have been considering giving up my B endorsement for a awhile but want to retain my E, might have to go in and have a chat with him. Kinda lost interest in that 9pistol shooting) dept for now.  Not enough free time to do it, Sporting clays, Gamebird hunting, Hunting (damn you VC), Rifle shooting and still go fishing. 12 visits a year are hard to squeeze in.

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## mikee

> The pistol club in New Plymouth used to do a midweek .22 shoot at the small bore club in town, helped to free up the weekends for other endeavours.
> Not sure if they still do it, but it was good idea.


Cable Bay shoot Wednesday nights in the summer, I still manage the attendance requirements easily, but my heart is just not in it any more, given the choice I would rather go shoot some clays or go for a walk in the hills now.

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## Ryan

My paperwork is completed, spoke to AO who seemed a bit stressed out over the phone - probably has a million people phoning him over the same question. Kinda gave me a bit of the third degree about why, asked about security, references (none had to have an "E"). Seemed satisfied with answers and asked me to post him the forms. 

Reasons I provided were for competitive sports shooting, retaining rifle in its original configuration and for collection. Just popped my application in the mail, will see what happens.

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## mikee

> Yea I would like a B but realistically I will never be able to fulfill the range requirements until I retire and by that stage Id say they will only be seen in museums.


Why don't you come out on sunday with me. Give it a nudge before I let my B go. I could even borrow my old race gun from its new owner so you could try a "RoboCop" gun!

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## veitnamcam

see how i go, got a bit on this weekend.

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## mikee

> see how i go, got a bit on this weekend.


No worries,, I the the important letter out. I ment to actually say "come out on A Sunday" not "come out Sunday" meaning this one.
Wjhat ever suits you. doesn't have to be a Sunday either.

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## Recoil

> I put an application in on the 9th December at Wellington Central, haven't heard anything back yet.


New plastic arrived today.

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## cambo

I put my app in early Jan. It's taken until now for 1 of my referees to be interviewed. Haven't heard anything more yet.
The AO did say they were totally swamped with applications and were having to imploy more vettors just to keep up.
Might be a while before I see anything.

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## dogmatix

Yeah, I put mine in in Jan too.
Still waiting.

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## gimp

Pistols are cool as shit, we should try get the required attendances reduced

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## mikee

> Pistols are cool as shit, we should try get the required attendances reduced


 I been a pistol  shooter for 20 years, trust me "cool as shit" lasts about a week. occaisionally comes back when someone turns up at the range with a Desert Eagle in 50 cal, then buggers off again when they leave.                  
I am in the process of giving up my B. lost interest for now.

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## Timmay

I really wish we could even own a .22lr Pistol on a normal licence.

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## Kscott

^ personally don't. I reckon like our FAL requirements the balance is about right now.

It _is_ fun but you generally have one for a goal rather than water melon busting.

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## Toby

If you could hunt with them then I'd probably be inclined to get my b cat

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## Timmay

> ^ personally don't. I reckon like our FAL requirements the balance is about right now.


 no offence, you are completely wrong. This whole thread is proof. Having to have a tank of a gun safe and a special licence only to own a firearm with a specific grip how ever if it has a thumb hole you can have it chained up in a hot water cupboard.

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## Kscott

no offence, your opinion is different to mine.

The continuation of needing a certain type of firearm license to own a certain type of firearm has existed for some time. Rightly or wrongly, the rules changed. As they have in the past. And no doubt will change again in the future.

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## Kscott

> If you could hunt with them then I'd probably be inclined to get my b cat


It's like the use of firearms, some people like to hunt, some people exclusively like just to target shoot. If you like target shooting then pistol shooting will probably appeal more.

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## Timmay

> The continuation of needing a certain type of firearm license to own a certain type of firearm has existed for some time. .




LEGAL



ILLEGAL



This is a grip, not a _certain_ dangerous baby killing scary gun with a million round mag (which btw I don't have a problem with a limit of 7rnds)

Again the top gun can be stored in a plywood enclosure with a small lock yet the bottom one requires a thick gun safe bolted to no less then two surfaces a yearly inspection, all guns to be registered and extra vetting to own.

Its stupid.

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## gimp

It's all retarded

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## gimp

> I been a pistol  shooter for 20 years, trust me "cool as shit" lasts about a week. occaisionally comes back when someone turns up at the range with a Desert Eagle in 50 cal, then buggers off again when they leave.                  
> I am in the process of giving up my B. lost interest for now.


I first shot pistols in 2007, I'm not new to them exactly, I still
Think they're cool as shit. Obtaining and maintaining a B is much hassle and the restrictions on what you can use them for are fucking dumb

----------


## Digit

I dont have a problem with security requirements. But I would like to be able to hunt and plink with a pistol without having to join a pistol club.

----------


## Beavis

Be sweet if your E allowed you to own pistols. Like in Canada, the "Restricted" PAL allows you to own shorter barreled semi autos and pistols. I think the process is similar to getting an E endorsement. However restricted is range use only, and you even need a permit to take them out of your house. If it came to that then yea keep the pistols. My hunting rifles are all E category now.

----------


## Kscott

> This is a grip, not a _certain_ dangerous baby killing scary gun with a million round mag (which btw I don't have a problem with a limit of 7rnds)
> 
> Again the top gun can be stored in a plywood enclosure with a small lock yet the bottom one requires a thick gun safe bolted to no less then two surfaces a yearly inspection, all guns to be registered and extra vetting to own.
> 
> Its stupid.


Umm, having a pistol grip is NOT illegal. Just as having a pistol is not illegal. It's up to the owner to ensure they fulfill the requirements of the law as it stands at the time. Also the pistol grip isn't limited to just AR's, there are other firearms in the world  :Wink: 

And the rules have changed in the past, and will change again in the future, you can bet on that.

----------


## dogmatix

I think Tim's point was that on a normal A-Cat license the following is permitted.

Anyway, as Gimp says we all agree the rules are stupid.

----------


## Timmay

> Umm, having a pistol grip is NOT illegal.


lol how could you miss my point? There are even pictures.

----------


## camo wsm

Hey if I have the e cat safe but am yet to acquire an Ar what's the go with getting in with the incoming e cat scheme? Anyone know?

Cheers Cam

----------


## cambo

> Hey if I have the e cat safe but am yet to acquire an Ar what's the go with getting in with the incoming e cat scheme? Anyone know?
> 
> Cheers Cam


Have a read of this thread Cam.....  :Wink: 
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...rsement-11927/

----------


## camo wsm

> Have a read of this thread Cam..... 
> http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...rsement-11927/


Thanks mate will do

----------


## Kscott

> lol how could you miss my point? There are even pictures.


Ever seen the movie Pulp Fiction ?  :Grin: 

Have a cry about the rules changing as much as you like, after all, all the talk has been going on for a very long time, it's not exactly new news.

Heard in a conversation last weekend at the Riverhead range, Manukau AO pointed out the free E was for people who already had a pistol grip semi, not free for those who didn't have one but just wanted to get their E. A small but subtle difference.

----------


## veitnamcam

> Heard in a conversation last weekend at the Riverhead range, Manukau AO pointed out the free E was for people who already had a pistol grip semi, not free for those who didn't have one but just wanted to get their E. A small but subtle difference.



Our AO said the opposite to us at the deerstalkers meeting and went on to say a judge had ruled that you didn't even need the safe to get your e if you don't have a rifle that falls under the criteria.
You only need to have the safe when it comes time to permit to procure.

----------


## Kscott

Hehe, usual confusion reigns !

----------


## Ryan

Things appear to be running expeditiously up here in Auckland. Turned in my paperwork last week, today received word that my references had been contacted and that my security inspection will take place on Sunday.

My guy seems to be quite easy to deal with. He asked about my security arrangements and advised that my window will require window bolt(s) and that my office door would require a deadbolt fitted which is a little absurd as an even a cripple would be able to kick it off its hinges, let alone a determined criminal.

But... them's the rules we need to play by.

----------


## cambo

Just had the Vettor round to interview the Mrs, me and 1 of my referee's. In fact he has only just left 10mins ago.
Old retired copper. Very easy to deal with. 
Did all the checks and inspected the safe and firearm being reclassified. Wasn't too interested in the other rifles etc.

I handed my application in at the start of January. Took a little bit to get the process moving as the AO forgot to sent the file away. All good now though.
Was told tonight I can expect my endorsement to come through within a couple of weeks.  :Have A Nice Day: 

As an interesting point he enquired about - He asked if I had a will, and what had I put in that will in regards to the firearms in the event of my passing. 
To be honest I had never thought about that. Might take a bit of thought though, now that there is a MSSA.
Wasn't a "you must do this'" type of thing, rather, it was a "had you thought about it".

Oh, and he suggested to take photos of under the house where the safe is secured, as a reference for any later inspection.

----------


## Beavis

My new license turned up today. Interesting to note that it still expires at the same time as my old one. I would have thought that since I was re-vetted they would flick me another ten year cycle...

----------


## P38

> My new license turned up today. Interesting to note that it still expires at the same time as my old one. I would have thought that since I was re-vetted they would flick me another ten year cycle...


Beavis

I once held a lifetime licence ......... that was two relicensing cycles ago now. 

At least your good until your licence expires and when it does all endorsements are renewed for ten years.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## Kscott

> My new license turned up today. Interesting to note that it still expires at the same time as my old one. I would have thought that since I was re-vetted they would flick me another ten year cycle...


Same happened with my B last year. Seems it's just a license upgrade rather than a new issue.

----------


## ishoot10s

> Same happened with my B last year. Seems it's just a license upgrade rather than a new issue.


No different to your drivers licence. Getting another vehicle class added does not renew the whole thing. All about revenue.

----------


## FletchNZ

I took the wife in yesterday to get her a free e cat cause I have mine, apparently this is perfectly valid to do. if something ever happens to me the cops won't be confiscating my collection. 

Sent from my SM-P605 using Tapatalk

----------


## mikee

> I took the wife in yesterday to get her a free e cat cause I have mine, apparently this is perfectly valid to do. if something ever happens to me the cops won't be confiscating my collection. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-P605 using Tapatalk


Does she already have a FAL and just needed the extra endorsement??

----------


## FletchNZ

Yep, she already has a FAL. Bonus is now I can put all my e cat firearms on both our licenses and she can use them whenever she wants. 

Sent from my SM-P605 using Tapatalk

----------


## Beavis

I wonder if you can sign mates up for your guns. Would be handy. Probably not.

----------


## arby92

what has everyone put for reasons why not a category?

----------


## cambo

I put - target shooting, recreational shooting, competitive shooting, hunting, pest control, plus anything other shooting discipline that may interest me. Plus change in law had reclassified my rifle to a MSSA.
Vettor thought I did well and congratulated me on covering all bases  :Wink:

----------


## P38

> I put - target shooting, recreational shooting, competitive shooting, hunting, pest control, plus anything other shooting discipline that may interest me. Plus change in law had reclassified my rifle to a MSSA.
> Vettor thought I did well and congratulated me on covering all bases


As above but I also added *"And any other lawful use".*

Just in case I forgot something.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## P38

> I wonder if you can sign mates up for your guns. Would be handy. Probably not.


Can't see why not, civil unions and all that being legal now.

Ask your AO and see what they have to say about it.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## savagehunter

So did I read that right is a 15 or 20 round .22 magazine currently (until law change) available and legal on an a cat? 

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

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## P38

> So did I read that right is a 15 or 20 round .22 magazine currently (until law change) available and legal on an a cat? 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk


Savagehunter

This is the current description of an MSSA as stated in the Arms Code.

An MSSA is a self-loading rifle or shotgun with one or more
of the following features:
 Magazine that holds, or has appearance of holding, more
than 15 cartridges for .22 rimfire.

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/fi.../arms-code.pdf

i.e. put a 25 shot mag into your standard Ruger 10/22 and you may now be in possession of a MSSA.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## cambo

But if you put a 25rnd mag in a 96/22 (lever action) it is still an "Acat" and not classed as a MSSA.  
Same as with the Mossberg MVP bolt action rifles that take AR mags. You can use a 30rnd mag if you desire and it is not classed as a MSSA.

So long as you dont own a semi that takes those mags, you'll be OK.

----------


## gimp

jesus how can people still not understand this stuff

----------


## P38

> But if you put a 25rnd mag in a 96/22 (lever action) it is still an "Acat" and not classed as a MSSA.  
> Same as with the Mossberg MVP bolt action rifles that take AR mags. You can use a 30rnd mag if you desire and it is not classed as a MSSA.
> 
> So long as you dont own a semi that takes those mags, you'll be OK.


Cambo 

That's because the rifles you mention are *NOT SELF LOADING*.

Simple really.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## cambo

Exactly!
I didn't say otherwise.
Simply stated the facts as it is.

The question was asked if a 25rnd mag was MSSA.  They didn't say if it was for self loading rifle. 

But thanks

----------


## P38

> Exactly!
> I didn't say otherwise.
> Simply stated the facts as it is.
> 
> The question was asked if a 25rnd mag was MSSA.  They didn't say if it was for self loading rifle. 
> 
> But thanks


Cambo

My mistake, you are correct.

I re read the question and he is only concerned with the magazine, no mention of the type of rifle said magazine is for.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## cambo

All good  :Wink:

----------


## cambo

My new card turned up the other day.    :Cool: 

How does 1 know of any conditions, if any, that they put on the use of the MSSA rifle? 
I have had nothing to say there are any conditions of use. Or are the condtions what I put down on the application? 
If so, happy times as I covered everything possible. lol

----------


## Beavis

Don't ask questions, just enjoy it.

----------


## savageshooter

The "conditions" are police policy, not part of the arms act.

----------


## gimp

> The "conditions" are police policy, not part of the arms act.


section 33a actually




> 33AConditions of endorsement in respect of military style semi-automatic firearms
> (1)It is a condition of every endorsement made under section 30B that the holder of the firearms licence observes, in respect of every military style semi-automatic firearm or part thereof in that holder's possession, such security precautions as are required by regulations made under this Act.
> (2)Any member of the Police may, on the direction of the Commissioner, impose, as conditions of an endorsement made by that member of the Police under section 30B, such conditions with regard to the use or custody of a military style semi-automatic firearm (being conditions additional to that specified in subsection (1)) as that member of the Police thinks fit.

----------


## cambo

> Don't ask questions, just enjoy it.


Will do  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## savageshooter

> section 33a actually


Mere details....depends on interpretation.  :Wink:

----------


## kiwijames

My lifetime licence is to expire (again) soon. Can I get the E Endorsement at the same time? Might as well. 
What do I need different to my A?

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## cambo

> My lifetime licence is to expire (again) soon. Can I get the E Endorsement at the same time? Might as well. 
> What do I need different to my A?


Have a read of this thread   :Wink: 
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...irements-8078/

----------


## Trevs

Just like to ask if there is anyone here that has been unable to get there e endorsement. Like to know the reasons for being denial. I here a lot of people getting there's and saying its rather easy but I have heard no one stating they have been unable to get one other than not having the correct safe requirements. I'm about to hand in my paper work today.

----------


## P38

> Just like to ask if there is anyone here that has been unable to get there e endorsement. Like to know the reasons for being denial. I here a lot of people getting there's and saying its rather easy but I have heard no one stating they have been unable to get one other than not having the correct safe requirements. I'm about to hand in my paper work today.


Trevs

Not heard of any denials, Police would be hard pressed to deny the E endorsement if you already have a Firearms Licence as you have already been deemed a *"Fit & Proper Person"* only thing that could hold you back is substandard security or recent Head injuries/Mental Health issues/Violence issues etc.

List everything you can think of for your reasons and add *"And Any Other Lawful Purpose"* that way your covered for anything you forgot to add.

Good Luck

Cheers
Pete

----------


## Trevs

Cheers for that.

Is it possible to add future reasons to your endorsement later on.  

But anyway I will include the *'And Any Other Lawful Purpose'*

----------


## P38

> Cheers for that.
> 
> *Is it possible to add future reasons to your endorsement later on*.  
> 
> But anyway I will include the *'And Any Other Lawful Purpose'*


Trevs

Don't think so.

Only when you relicense in 10 years time.

I'm picking there will come a time shortly when the Police will make a regulation that you can only use Your E cat Firearms for the purpose you stated.

i.e.. if you only put target shooting as the reason for owning a MSSA then you will not be able to use said firearm for Hunting etc.

Cheers
Pete

----------


## Trevs

I've now handed in so now it's a waiting game. I added the statement for any other lawfull use. That should cover everything. The only thing I need to worry about is keeping my partner happy till her interview.  Will see how long this process takes

----------


## P38

Might only take a few weeks to a month.

----------


## steven

So whats is the best deal on an E at present?  5 or 6 gun.

----------


## turner nz

i looked at the 5 or 6 gun safe but then everyone here said if your looking at a 5 get a 10 and i'm so glad i listened ! got a 10 gun buffalo river safe from reloaders good safe but the ammo storage is kinda small would be my only complaint

----------


## furstimer

> My new card turned up the other day.   
> 
> How does 1 know of any conditions, if any, that they put on the use of the MSSA rifle? 
> I have had nothing to say there are any conditions of use. Or are the condtions what I put down on the application? 
> If so, happy times as I covered everything possible. lol



Got my new card in the post today. No conditions attached/specified other than the standard 7 rules. Got me worried for a sec and then I remembered your post. Now I can insert 'freedom' mags.  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## res

Nice, enjoy unrestricted mags/stocks etc

----------


## turner nz

Just dropped my papers in today, how long did the whole process take? 

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk

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## furstimer

> Nice, enjoy unrestricted mags/stocks etc


Thanks. I actually experienced lesser stoppages and feeding issues with them 20 & 30rd mags. Now I look forward to some pest control and 3gun shoots.

----------


## cambo

> Just dropped my papers in today, how long did the whole process take? 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk


Mine took a few months in total, as the AO forgot to sent the relevant paperwork away.
Got all sorted pretty quickly once he did though. May have been 3 weeks after the initial error/holdup.

Comes down to the workload of the vettor(s).
As you can imagine they have a rather increased workload so are under pressure to get through the applications.

The vettor that interviewed me and the Mrs finished up with us, as the last interview for the day, at 2200 and had been on the go since 0700 doing interviews.
There are 12 vettors in CHCH at the moment and they need more to cope with the applications.
Lots of FAL applicants are Asian and he said many can't speak any English making the process a lot longer/harder.

----------


## Trevs

I put mine in 3 weeks ago, so far I've heard nothing

----------


## steven

> i looked at the 5 or 6 gun safe but then everyone here said if your looking at a 5 get a 10 and i'm so glad i listened ! got a 10 gun buffalo river safe from reloaders good safe but the ammo storage is kinda small would be my only complaint


My problem is I have to move it by myself so weight is an issue and frankly I cant see me ever wanting 5 E cats....if I do well another safe, no biggee IMHO.

A mate just got one of those from Reloaders btw, seems its buggered, but Reloaders have said no probs...so a good example of after market care.

I store my ammo and bolts in another bigger safe, it has a 10mm thick door   :Grin:

----------


## Tbirdsteve

I used this process - quite quick too - took about 2 weeks with no hassles.  I'm also submitting 3 x POL67X forms to register three of my rifles as E-cat.

Steve

----------


## Trevs

> I used this process - quite quick too - took about 2 weeks with no hassles.  I'm also submitting 3 x POL67X forms to register three of my rifles as E-cat.
> 
> Steve


Hi Steve

When did you do yours for it to take just 2 weeks

----------


## Tbirdsteve

In February this year via the Porirua office.

Steve

----------


## Trevs

Question, if I'm still waiting for my e-endorsement to be processed after the 11 June, will that make me a 'criminal' since I wont still have my e-cat endorsement but still own mssa type firearm with its pistol grip.

----------


## res

No more than you are now-it's against the law now and the police are just using there discretion not to prosecute. 
As they are the hold up you should be fine,but as I'm not a lawyer it could be worth emailing your arms officer to ask-mainly to have a record that you are doing everything in your power to comply

----------


## Trevs

I'm off hunting on Sunday as well and looking at taking the AR for its first shot. (pistol grip and all)
Anyway will email the arms office but could be a little late now, but at least there will be an email sitting in his inbox.

----------


## burtonator

Mine turned up in the mail yesterday 
has (MSSA) in brackets does this just mean that i can only use those types of rifles??

----------


## burtonator

So they all like that???

----------


## gimp

Well that's what an E endorsement is for. It doesn't let you have or do anything else. 


E: Also should probably blank out your deets man, FAL # DOB and full name probably aren't great to have floating around on the net

----------


## res

> Mine turned up in the mail yesterday 
> has (MSSA) in brackets does this just mean that i can only use those types of rifles??



It's still a normal licence as well if that's what your asking,just with the added endorsement of being allowed to own and use mssa's

----------


## Southern Man

> It's still a normal licence as well if that's what your asking,just with the added endorsement of being allowed to own and use mssa's


Can just use the particular MSSA that the endorsement give syou 'permission' to possess and no other. A drafting error in the law provides no defence to the supply of an MSSA to any person who does not have an endorsement for that particualr and exact MSSA and a Permit to Procure specificaly that one.

A range officer is even technically unable to even touch any MSSA except the ones for which they have the specific endorsement and permit to procure.

There is much delight in official circles at this 'error' and no plans to repair the drafting error.

----------


## dogmatix

> Can just use the particular MSSA that the endorsement give syou 'permission' to possess and no other. A drafting error in the law provides no defence to the supply of an MSSA to any person who does not have an endorsement for that particualr and exact MSSA and a Permit to Procure specificaly that one.
> 
> A range officer is even technically unable to even touch any MSSA except the ones for which they have the specific endorsement and permit to procure.
> 
> There is much delight in official circles at this 'error' and no plans to repair the drafting error.


Which is why we should bulk apply for P2Ps to facilitate the handling of MSSAs between you and your endorsed mates at the range.
Ask the range officers to get endorsed and do the same thing.

See how Wellington like hundreds of P2Ps coming in each week to process.

That is the only way the drafting error will ever be fixed.

----------


## res

I asked j green about this, no one has ever been charged under it,and unless they were looking for something to pin on you no one ever will. A very commonly ignored bit of law by every ro who is doing there job-and that's almost all of them. 

Someone should do the multi p2p thing as it is the only way such things will get sorted,a Wellington AO said he would love to be involved a couple of years ago.

----------


## dogmatix

> I asked j green about this, no one has ever been charged under it,and unless they were looking for something to pin on you no one ever will. A very commonly ignored bit of law by every ro who is doing there job-and that's almost all of them. 
> 
> Someone should do the multi p2p thing as it is the only way such things will get sorted,a Wellington AO said he would love to be involved a couple of years ago.


Unfortunately, some ranges will be enforcing the rule from 11 June onwards. I.e. won't allow you to let your mates shoot your E-Cat MSSA under your supervision.
Mind you, those ranges are anti semis anyway, so not a far extension of that old fart attitude.

----------


## res

How can a RO do there job and follow that clearly un intended rule?

That can't in my opinion

So the law stands in the way of safe use of a legal  item 

The multi p2p game is a good way to deal with it-even if only the mssa owners and RO's play it-with the police complaints around funding I'm sure they will want to work something out fairly fast

----------


## dogmatix

I noticed that when the vettor came around to do my E-Cat inspection, he didn't touch any rifles, so wouldn't breach that silly rule about handling a MSSA without an endorsement or P2P.

----------


## Trevs

I have my AO popping around on Sunday to do my Vetting. 

So E-cat safe fully installed and bottle of Baileys for partner to keep her in a good mood for her interview  :Thumbsup:

----------


## Beavis

That women sounds fuckn scary

----------


## Southern Man

> Unfortunately, some ranges will be enforcing the rule from 11 June onwards. I.e. won't allow you to let your mates shoot your E-Cat MSSA under your supervision.
> Mind you, those ranges are anti semis anyway, so not a far extension of that old fart attitude.


The reasoning is quite convoluted but it is because there are three seperate sections in law which deal with supplying an MSSA

CIV-2012-409-000866 [2013] NZHC 1813

 JUDGMENT OF PANCKHURST J 

[68] Faced with the present wording of s 22(2)(a) Ms Coleman conceded that the immediate supervision defence is available in relation to the use of a MSSA, at least in the context of a prosecution against the unlicensed person under s 20. Clearly that concession was appropriate.

[69] *However, counsel drew attention to two other offence sections under which charges could be laid*. Section 44(1) defines the offence of supplying a MSSA (or a pistol or a restricted weapon) to anyone other than a person who is authorised to receive it by virtue of a permit to import, or a permit to procure. Interestingly, s 44(3) provides a defence where the supply was by a pistol licence holder at a recognised pistol shooting club range and the supplier provided immediate supervision over the pistol while it is in the possession of the other person i.e. the same defence as was contained in the 2005 Bill in relation to possession of a pistol contrary to s 20 of the Act. 

[70] Supply is a word of broad meaning. It is apt to cover relinquishing possession of a MSSA even temporarily for the purpose of firearm instruction by the supplier. Potentially, therefore, even in an immediate supervision context the supplier of a MSSA could be charged under s 44, albeit the person receiving instruction may well have a defence under s 22(2)(a). 


[71] In addition, s 50(1) creates the offence of unlawful possession of a MSSA by a person not authorised or permitted to do so, for example because they do not hold an E endorsement and a permit to procure. Again, the same immediate supervision defence is available but only in relation to a pistol: see s 50(5). Hence, there is potential for someone placed in possession of a MSSA, but under immediate supervision, to be charged under this section, instead of under s 20 where an immediate supervision defence would be available. 
[72] In short, ss 20(1) on the one hand, and 44(1) and 50(1) on the other are in conflict with reference to the availability of an immediate supervision defence in relation to the possession, and supply, of a MSSA. The existence of this conflict further supports the contention that s 22(2)(a) contains a drafting error which, regrettably, was not rectified as proposed in the 2005 Bill. 


[73] Mr Lincoln sought a declaration confirming that, were he to supply a MSSA to another for firearm instruction and provide immediate supervision of that person, he would not commit an offence. The value of a declaration confirming that particular conduct is not criminal is well recognised:26 
Where ... a party brings proceedings before the Courts relating to matters involving statutory construction ... because he wants to avoid violating the law and in order to ascertain and observe the law, the Court should surely be much more sympathetic towards granting declaratory relief if convenient. 
In this instance, however, the reverse is the case. For the reasons given the applicant may be prosecuted under s 44(1) were he to supply a MSSA to someone for the purpose of safety instruction under his supervision. 
[74] For these reasons, and in the exercise of my discretion, I decline to grant relief.

----------


## Southern Man

Remember that there is no staute of limitations in the Arms Act so charges could be laid at any time in the future if Police should decide to do so - present 'policy' not to prosecute can be changed at any time and Police personnel do change ...

----------


## dogmatix

Exactly why we should all apply for specific endorsements and P2Ps  between endorsed license holders by the hundreds or even thousands each week.
To prevent us being in breach of the Act and to give Police HQ a mountain of paperwork to process.

----------


## savageshooter

> Can just use the particular MSSA that the endorsement give syou 'permission' to possess and no other. A drafting error in the law provides no defence to the supply of an MSSA to any person who does not have an endorsement for that particualr and exact MSSA and a Permit to Procure specificaly that one.
> 
> A range officer is even technically unable to even touch any MSSA except the ones for which they have the specific endorsement and permit to procure.
> 
> There is much delight in official circles at this 'error' and no plans to repair the drafting error.




Speaking to an arms officer, he bought up this subject where, his words, there are a "bunch of "pedantic" people in your sport". 

People have gone to see him about people using someone elses E cat gun, said arms officer didnt want to know. he said you are at a range, its controlled, have some bloody fun. The law is a nonsense.


I wholeheartedly agree with him

----------


## Towely

Then openly let people shoot your E cat if you have one. Put it on youtube if you want. I wont be taking that risk thats for sure.

----------


## savageshooter

> Then openly let people shoot your E cat if you have one. Put it on youtube if you want. I wont be taking that risk thats for sure.


Why on earth would I want to do that?

I agree with him. That doesnt mean at all that I let anyone shoot any E cat firearms that I might or might not own. Do I have an E cat, that would be no ones business but mine.

----------


## veitnamcam

And the police

----------


## AzumitH

I think that's a big part of the problem though.  Mr AO says it's sweet, you and you mate go have some fun down at the range, PC plod clamps you in irons.  "B-but the AO said it w-was ok!" you cry, as mr AO coldly turns his back on you, and PC plod drags you screaming to an organic sandal weaving facility for "re-education".

----------


## savageshooter

> I think that's a big part of the problem though.  Mr AO says it's sweet, you and you mate go have some fun down at the range, PC plod clamps you in irons.  "B-but the AO said it w-was ok!" you cry, as mr AO coldly turns his back on you, and PC plod drags you screaming to an organic sandal weaving facility for "re-education".


Yep thats a possibility too.

----------


## Southern Man

So your AO is choosing not to enforce quite serious regulatory infingements?

44 Selling or supplying pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to person who does not hold permit to import or to procure
(1) Every person commits an offence and is *liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to both* who sells or supplies a pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to any person other than a person who is authorised

(a) by a permit issued for the purposes of section 16(1) to bring or cause to be brought or sent into New Zealand that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon; or

(b) by a permit issued under section 35 to procure that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon.

50 Unlawful possession of pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon
(1) Every person commits an offence and is *liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to both* who

(a) is in possession of a pistol and is not a person authorised or permitted, expressly or by implication, by or pursuant to this Act, to be in possession of that pistol; or

(b) is in possession of a restricted weapon and is not a person authorised or permitted, expressly or by implication, by or pursuant to this Act, to be in possession of that restricted weapon:

(c) is in possession of a military style semi-automatic firearm and is not a person authorised or permitted, expressly or by implication, by or pursuant to this Act, to be in possession of that military style semi-automatic firearm.

I am guessing National Police HQ would be very interested in that!

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## savageshooter

> So your AO is choosing not to enforce quite serious regulatory infingements?
> 
> 44 Selling or supplying pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to person who does not hold permit to import or to procure
> (1) Every person commits an offence and is *liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to both* who sells or supplies a pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to any person other than a person who is authorised—
> 
> (a) by a permit issued for the purposes of section 16(1) to bring or cause to be brought or sent into New Zealand that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon; or
> 
> (b) by a permit issued under section 35 to procure that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon.
> 
> ...




I didnt say which AO it was.

It seems there are alot of those Pedantic people here he was refering to.

I think it was best I said nothing at all.


You let someone use a Ruger 10/22 with a 10 round mag, no problem

You let someone use a ruger 10/22 thats registered all hell breaks lose.

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## savageshooter

> So your AO is choosing not to enforce quite serious regulatory infingements?
> 
> 44 Selling or supplying pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to person who does not hold permit to import or to procure
> (1) Every person commits an offence and is *liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to both* who sells or supplies a pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon to any person other than a person who is authorised—
> 
> (a) by a permit issued for the purposes of section 16(1) to bring or cause to be brought or sent into New Zealand that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon; or
> 
> (b) by a permit issued under section 35 to procure that pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, or restricted weapon.
> 
> ...




I didnt say which AO it was.

It seems there are alot of those Pedantic people here he was refering to.

I think it was best I said nothing at all.


You let someone use a Ruger 10/22 with a 10 round mag, no problem

You let someone use a ruger 10/22 thats registered all hell breaks lose.

No one said anyone broke the law

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## Trevs

In the arms code it states 

_Crossing fences
If there is a gate – use it! Never climb a fence while
carrying a firearm. Carrying loaded firearms through
fences and over obstacles can result in injury and death.
• If there are two or more people, one should climb over
the fence without a firearm. Then, pass the unloaded
firearms across with the actions open, and pointed in a
safe direction.
_

Now how do you follow the arms code with a MSSA ??

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## Southern Man

> In the arms code it states 
> ....
> Now how do you follow the arms code with a MSSA ??


A hunting buddy and myself were chasing Wallabies in Fallow Deer country. One up the spout/safety on/muzzle in safe direction (carrying patrol ready)/Snot hook OFF bang switch ... when we came to a fence with no gate for miles (or kilometres for that matter!)

Removed magazines/cleared actions and checked empty chamber sliding MSSAs under fence with actions open being careful not to touch each others endorsed firearms !! Climbed through fence and bent down to retrieve cleared firearm ... and a Fallow Deer jumped up out of the Tussock less than 50 yards away ... Just stood there looking at each other as our safety concious behaviour left us with firearms not yet reloaded. We did laugh about it later and did not do anything different at the next fence - except the one not going through the fence remained cocked and locked till the other was through and loaded before clearing and following.

So I guess that is how it is done but if by yourself just clear and miss the shot!

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## Monsterbishi

Well, less than a week to go now, took the last of mine in this morning, my little .22 - it may be old with nothing but memories of blueing left but it still felt good to chuck the metal bar in the bin that's been keeping the grip and stock conjioined all along...

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## dogmatix

Hmmm... I didn't put my Vepr in to be endorsed, not sure if I can be bothered. Near impossible to get mags out of the USA bigger than 5 rounds anyway.

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## res

> Hmmm... I didn't put my Vepr in to be endorsed, not sure if I can be bothered. Near impossible to get mags out of the USA bigger than 5 rounds anyway.


If your talking about a 12g vepr I have one ore two 7/8 round factory mags that I got sent by mistake when ordering saiga12 mags. Never sent them back as I thought I would try to make a mag well for the saiga and never did. If you bolt off the magwell on the v12 you can use s12 mags-including drums and dumping 20 rounds of buckshot into a rolling bucket is something you have to try if you can.

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## Ryan

He's talking about the x39mm Vepr. 

Speaking of which, could you bring it to the next shoot? I'm keen to check it out.

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## res

In that case big mags are easy!

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## dogmatix

Its actually .308 Win, hence the mags are like hen's teeth. GC has another 5 shot mag for sale on their website.
Will do Ryan.
22nd of this month. Want to carpool?
Be me and another Schmeisser AR shooter from my place.
Might be better taking my wheels, as yours is too low!

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## res

.308 is harder! I got some promag 20 rounders for my saiga .308 when it went e cat last time around. Got a import permit easy but finding someone who would export was a pain

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## dogmatix

Promag do make a 20 shot Vepr .308 mag, so I was tempted.

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## Ryan

.308, bah - I thought there might be a banana skin somewhere!  :Zomg: 

Ja 22nd, all good - I could pick you up and then we debus at Carsten's house for the journey onwards? He'll be dying to take out his new Navara and I was going to stop there anyway.

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## dogmatix

But easier to reload for... if you don't mind killing the brass after 5 fires.

Mind you, reloading for it is only 25c per round cheaper than buying the steel cased Barnaul SPs.
Might try some of that to see how it goes.

Cool, lets sort out the details closer to the time.

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## dogmatix

I might be able to source some factory 10 round mags form Europe...

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## dogmatix

Put the Vepr on E today. 
Can always put it back to A later.

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## Ryan

> Put the Vepr on E today. 
> Can always put it back to A later.


A wise decision.  :Have A Nice Day:

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