# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Feeling sick after reading this !

## Jusepy

Hello friends ,
Well this morning I was browsing and scrolling social media and I came across this from Kiwi gun blog.
Yuck I felt sick after reading this :

WELCOME TO 2023 from Sporting Shooters Association Blog
You probably thought the last four years (2019, 20, 21 & 22) have been bad for law abiding citizens who have been vetted to be fit and proper people to own a firearm.
YOU AINT SEEN NOTHING YET.
2023 will see the start of the registration of all your firearms, with increased fees for every interaction you make with your new Police Regulator.  
Many of your favourite shooting clubs and ranges are likely to close as they face intrusive bureaucracy and costs from the Regulator.
Many of your favourite gun related businesses will close as they face increased costs and interference by the Regulator.
Public events will no longer feature military reenactments or displays of firearms such as seen at Armistice in Cambridge, thanks to new costs and interference from the Regulator.
Gun Shows and Auctions are likely to become a thing of the past, as the Regulator imposes more restrictions and costs on these events.
The Regulator" is already proposing to issue expensive permits to allow collectors to transport their guns to events, how long before they apply the same permit to carry to hunters?
The Regulator claims to want the safest firearm environment in the world - the sad reality is that we already had that in New Zealand prior to 2019.  
The whole ethos of the 1983 Arms Act was - make it easy and most people will comply with the law, and we did;  sadly the police have forgotten this. 
Conversely over regulation leads to resentment and non- compliance.


Not sure if I managed to copy the whole article but... Bad news. 
Why do we need to be 'the safest firearm enviroment in the world' ??

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## Rushy

Having the aspirational goal of being the safest firearm environment in the world is admirable however for that to ever occur there first needs to be a paradigm shift away from the head in the sand denial by authorities that countless illegal firearms have been entering this country via sea freight shipping containers for decades now. The oppressive changes in firearms legislation that we law abiding firearms license holders have been subjected to over the last few years are predicated upon the wrongful belief by the law makers and their influencers that we are the most significant contributor to the existence of illegal firearms in this country and whilst it is true that legitimately owned firearms do sometimes end up in the hands of criminals and other non licensed people in society, in reality nothing could be further from the truth.  Further to this, the refusal by the law makers and the administrators of the various firearms legislation to acknowledge their involvement in the failures that contributed to the wrongful issue of a firearms license has given rise to repeated actions of doubling down to support their denial of complicity.  Given the above, it is understandable that we will face continuing changes to firearms legislation.

So how do we change this and bring an end to the nonsensical legislative amendments?  I think we need to go loud!  I think we need to say “Enough of this persecution”  and “We will not stand for it any longer ”.  We licensed firearms are highly law abiding, we did not contribute to the failings that lead to the Christchurch massacre and we absolutely do not deserve to be continually subjected to the hostility and ill treatment of those that did contribute to it just because they want to continue to deflect.

In my opinion the biggest challenge facing us is not continued legislative changes, it is spurring the apathetic among us into meaningful action and convincing the public that a large sector of law abiding Kiwis have been wrongfully blamed and made scapegoats for reasons of expediency.

Rant over.

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## GDMP

You have a safe country by having a properly brought up population that are accountable for their own behaviour and actions.....

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## gundoc

Despite the machinations of our current government, we have the law on our side. We are guaranteed to the right to possess arms 'as allowed by law' as a part of the Bill of Rights 1688 which is the cornerstone of our legal and parliamentary system, and a part of our legislation. This right is recognised in our Arms Act in Section 24 of the Act, Issue of firearms licence
(1)
Subject to subsection (2), a firearms licencemust be issued by a member of the Police to an applicant if the member of the Police is satisfied that
(a)
the applicant
(i)
is of or over the age of 16 years; and
(ii)
is a fit and proper person to be in possession of a firearm or an airgun; and
(b)
either
(i)
the applicants storage facilities for their firearms and ammunition have been inspected by a member of the Police and are compliant with the requirements for the secure storage of firearms and ammunition; or
(ii)
if the applicant is a visitor, a member of the Police is satisfied with the arrangements made by the applicant for the storage of the firearms and ammunition they will possess while in New Zealand.. A further string to our bow is that our PM is hell-bent on preventing the 'evils' of 'Hate Speech' and is trying to pass legislationn on the subject. The UN definition of hate Speech is any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour, that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality, race, colour, descent, gender or other identity factor.. It is interesting to compare that to the comments of various politicians and toady news media over the past 3 years when referring to firearms owners. We have to be more stringent in our demands that our rights be upheld!

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## Cordite

> Despite the machinations of our current government, we have the law on our side. We are guaranteed to the right to possess arms 'as allowed by law' as a part of the Bill of Rights 1688 which is the cornerstone of our legal and parliamentary system, and a part of our legislation. This right is recognised in our Arms Act in Section 24 of the Act, Issue of firearms licence
> (1)
> Subject to subsection (2), a firearms licencemust be issued by a member of the Police to an applicant if the member of the Police is satisfied that—
> (a)
> the applicant—
> (i)
> is of or over the age of 16 years; and
> (ii)
> is a fit and proper person to be in possession of a firearm or an airgun; and
> ...


You are deluded.  Go test your rights, maybe carry a short sword next time you go shopping with your wife.

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## HG Man

> there first needs to be a paradigm shift away from the head in the sand denial by authorities that countless illegal firearms have been entering this country via sea freight shipping containers for decades now.


If that was the case, we'd be seeing a lot more intercepts in sea containers than we do currently? I can hunt down the report if you are interested, but the amount of weapons seized via sea cargo vs air cargo was massively on the side of air cargo. And its not a case of they aren't looking because we see plenty of drug intercepts in sea cargo. 

There are really only 2 ways that legal firearms get into the hands of crims in NZ, straw purchasing and theft.

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## Tentman

> In my opinion the biggest challenge facing us is not continued legislative changes, it is spurring the apathetic among us into meaningful action and convincing the public that a large sector of law abiding Kiwis have been wrongfully blamed and made scapegoats for reasons of expediency.
> 
> Rant over.


A good rant too.   I'm going to visit on all our handy MPs (of all flavours, even if it is distasteful) in the next month or so to ensure they know how pissed off I am that "We" are no safer than before thier changes, and that I won't be voting for them unless they committ to winding back the legislation, rhetoric  and redirecting police management.

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## TeRei

> Despite the machinations of our current government, we have the law on our side. We are guaranteed to the right to possess arms 'as allowed by law' as a part of the Bill of Rights 1688 which is the cornerstone of our legal and parliamentary system, and a part of our legislation. This right is recognised in our Arms Act in Section 24 of the Act, Issue of firearms licence
> (1)
> Subject to subsection (2), a firearms licencemust be issued by a member of the Police to an applicant if the member of the Police is satisfied that—
> (a)
> the applicant—
> (i)
> is of or over the age of 16 years; and
> (ii)
> is a fit and proper person to be in possession of a firearm or an airgun; and
> ...


Sadly this is incorrect. The legislation was amended to confirm firearm ownership and possession is a privilege. The "rights" are subject to now overarching control by the police. Unfortunately most firearms owners are apathetic about "rights" and the voting patterns of recent elections confirm this. The police have an aim to rid firearms ownership in private hands so only the police have the use and control of firearms. Suggest you carefully read S 27. The biggest growth indusrty in NZ presently is appeals for firearms revocations. The NZ police have assembled a veritable warchest of cash to oppose each and every appeal regardless of the merits of their opposition.  The Crown lawyers in each province of NZ are literally minting money out of these appeals. Funny how the police have a legal section which does not do their own appeals. It begs the question what do they do for their vast salaries. 



'rights



'

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## OGM

One of the things I have found in firearms circles is the amount of speculation which goes on. Maybe its sometimes right, maybe its not. But the issue is when people go and get their end of the world information from mates rather then making a quick call to the Police / Fire Arms Authority and asking for themselves.

But even worse is when they complain about what they heard through the grapevine but have no interest in making a submission or responding to the survey. Oh no, someone else (ie: clubs, orgs, etc) can do that for them...

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## Rushy

> If that was the case, we'd be seeing a lot more intercepts in sea containers than we do currently? I can hunt down the report if you are interested, but the amount of weapons seized via sea cargo vs air cargo was massively on the side of air cargo. And its not a case of they aren't looking because we see plenty of drug intercepts in sea cargo. 
> 
> There are really only 2 ways that legal firearms get into the hands of crims in NZ, straw purchasing and theft.


Sorry but I simply don’t buy that.  Of the three thousand million (rounded) containers that come in to New Zealand every year, how many are thoroughly checked by NZ customs let alone checked thoroughly checked for the presence of firearms.  I would suggest that of those containers that are checked by customs, their primary focus would be on unwelcome organisms and drugs.  I have no reason to believe that NZ Customs intercept all of the drugs that come in to the country in containers and I have even less reason to believe that there aren’t any firearms concealed with the drug shipments that get through.  Hell, I wonder how many customs officers would even recognise firearms parts for what they were if they were on an X-ray screen in front of them.  Customs simply do not have the resources required to comprehensively inspect every container that comes here.

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## Cordite

> One of the things I have found in firearms circles is the amount of speculation which goes on. Maybe its sometimes right, maybe its not. But the issue is when people go and get their end of the world information from mates rather then making a quick call to the Police / Fire Arms Authority and asking for themselves.
> 
> But even worse is when *they complain about what they heard through the grapevine but have no interest in making a submission* or responding to the survey. Oh no, someone else (ie: clubs, orgs, etc) can do that for them...


How do you know this about them?  From your grapevine?

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## Growlybear

Sadly, the "she'll be right" kiwi mentality, which my old man reckoned allowed the unscrupulous to take the p1ss, is alive and well in our community. The meekness, and the "I'm alright Jack" over the gun grab is ample proof of that. Not saying anything would be different,if most of us had made a noise,  but bending over and taking it, only sends one message to those who would screw us.

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## GDMP

Quite a contrast to shooters here in NZ,and what is currently happening in Canada.......they are definitely standing up for themselves and letting Trudeau know loud and clear that they are not happy with his proposals.

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## kotuku

whilst the stated cause of action may be noble ,its I  fear prone to frustration for often MPs are nowt more than seat warmers and yes men for the more important vested interests out in the back rooms -whose money and connections in essence sets policy. this of course is actively cultivated in a MMP system.
Cuddly Coster and his cabal are also seemingly enjoying a free reign.

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## gundoc

> Sadly this is incorrect. The legislation was amended to confirm firearm ownership and possession is a privilege.


Can you please provide the example of changed legislation to support your comment.  The 'right' is recognised by the word 'must' in the Arms Act regarding the issue of a Firearms Licence, not 'may' or 'should' or 'in the discretion of..'. 'Must' is a specific directive of what is required to occur if the applicant is deemed fit and proper' etc.

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## Doghead

I was going to refrain from commenting, but BSA has opened the gate.

The police have been trying to build the case that all guns in criminal hands come from licensed firearm owners, not from any other source.

I think Nicole Mckee got from Coster an admission that they actually only know where a small proportoo of guns have come from, and they are now trying to say "well - that is where all the guns come from" - and now this article very conveniently is produced.

I read the news very well, and had clearly missed any prior reporting of that case, and it just seemed to convenient in light of recent comments from the police and politicians.

A quick google search will provide some background.

Now - a Joseph Grond did sign a petition for COLFO - so this article could all be true, but WHY was the case previously unreported. The media, for this sort of public interest case would have been all over it. The police would have ensured there was coverage of it.

I read the article, and it didnt read right, in fact it stinks, there is a distinct lack of realism to it, ie lack of dates.

I would hope for the medias credibilty that this article was fact checked first, for me the jory is out - however it is a good plausible "story"

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