# Hunting > Varminting and Small Game Hunting >  Varmint Cal

## 300_BLK

Hey Guys,

I'm planning a new Varmint rifle build and want some advice please.

I plan to use it for mainly rabbits, but we do see goats regularly and the odd fallow.

My plan was to use the 22-250AI throated for 75 Amax, but considering the bullet weight and powder charge size I might just be better stepping up to 6mm or 6.5mm.

I'm looking at these in order of preference 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, .243 Win, 6x47 Lapua etc..

What I would like to know "is anyone using a .243 or .264 for varminting?"

Cheers.

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## clickbang

Ive just had the same dilemma.  I ended up with a Remington 700 in .243. Currently working on  loads for it but it seems to like 87g vmax or speers . Hates 60g hollow ponts. Will shoot this barrel out then go to something else

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

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## southernman

I have a 6mm Remington, that I use, also had a .243, much prefer the 6mm Remington, bit faster, but found it far easier, to get several, projectiles to similar point of impact, 
 65gr v-max, and a hunting load of 85 gr partion, both have same point of impact at 200m, 
 very good with 87gr, Hornardy BTHP.
 65gr v-max is pushing to 3850fps plus, and turns, gophers, rabbits, hares and coyotes, to paddock fertilizer. :Omg:  
 I also had a couple of 22-250, love that cal, but the mid size 6mm bore, is far more flexible and versatile, on a wider range of game, and has multiple bullets from each manufacture, suitable for small and med game.
 right on to the 6.5 cals, 
 I have two, a .260 and a .264 win, haven't really used either for varmints much, but have used both, for predator hunting, when I lived in Canada, both with the 120gr ballistic tip,
 Too expensive, not as many choices, of light weight varmint bullets, more a med game cal, with the odd bullet option for small game, bullets are  more expensive the bigger the bore.
 The .264 win has sum serious long legs, with a 120gr ballistic tip at full throttle, forget speed, but 3500plus I think. dusted a few coyotes at over 500m. 
 Couple other points, the bigger the cartridge, the more recoil, one you get into 6mm and 6.5 you cant spot your shots, in the scope, for pure varminting the fast .17 and .20 cal centerfires are much more fun.
 I see you have left out the 1/4 bores, ..25cal's, despite the  horseshit you here on here about shit BC bullets, both the 257 Roberts and 2506, are very capable, out further than the 6mm bores, and before everyone chimes in, the light weight 85-100gr .25 bullets have as good or better bc light for cal bullets that the 6mm bore does, 
 I have used or own .17 hornet, 17 fireball, .204, .22 hornet, .221 fireball .222, .223, .22-250, .243, 6mm rem, .2506, 257 wby. .260, .264 win,   
 for pure varminting I would take the .17 fireball first, :Thumbsup:  or .222, 
 For varminting and the odd deer, fast twist 22-250 or 6mm Remington, :Thumbsup:  
 For a deer rifle with the odd day of low volume bunny busting, .260 or 2506, 
 For Pure DRT there big or small, nothing can come close, too a full throttle load form a .257 wby :Cool:  or .264 win, :Omg:  and a 100gr, Ballistic tip, low volume shooting due to very! short barrel life.
  Honorable mention  to 300H&H and 9.3x62, but both are just a little bit overkill on rabbits and too expensive to run, very effective thought.
 Have fun.

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## mikee

What about a 6.5-223 . Use 95gn Vmax for rabbies and hares at a good velocity and still able to use bigger projectiles. 

Cheap brass so you don't have to get bothered finding all your empties afterwards.

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## Mathias

Or as Kiwi Greg went.....6mm Creedmoor if you want something a little different, or the 6XC, which is well worth a consideration. Personally I'd go 6mm for varminting.

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## 199p

22-243  :Have A Nice Day:  

Still yet to build one myself but one day

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## StrikerNZ

I know a chap who uses his suppressed .243 on occasion for blasting rabbits. Lightweight pills handloaded, 300 metres no problems.. He likes it, although he does tend to use the 223 most of the time.

Any reason you're not looking at the 223? Or just after something different..

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## Tombi

This question comes up a lot, I asked it myself. There's never a perfect caliber, just start building a collection  :Thumbsup:  that's what I'm doing after buying a 204 I now want something in 6mm

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## Rock river arms hunter

For pure versatility and cost the humble 223 is hard to beat, money being no option- 22-250 any day! I've owned a 204 and it was fantastic on bunnies but God help you if there was a breeze so hence my pref for a .224 cal... The 204 truly is awe inspiring, I got 2 rounds nearly touching at 270y one day....... That's with little to no breeze though

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## Ross Nolan

I burned out 3 barrels on my 22.250 (mostly with 55gr Vmax), then went to 6XC using 87gr Vmax. What a fantastic combo - Norma brass loaded from the bag gave 1/2 minute on the first load I tried, so no development required past there. Deer from 15 to 460 yards, magpies, rabbits and plovers all bowed down to the mighty XC.

Like an idiot, I sold it, and now use a .223 with 75gr Amaxes. That works too.

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## 300_BLK

Hi Guys thanks to everyone who has taken their time to reply to the thread, your all good buggers  :Thumbsup: 

Just to clarify some questions; I had a 223, 22-250 and 22-243 and sold them all eventually because although I loved the velocity and terminal performance  :Omg:  (that 22-243 is unbelievable) they were not set up twist wise for the high BC 75gr and up pills.

I got my wife a Tikka 223 (chopped to 12") and It is good to 200m+ on rabbits but again slow twist so if I want to be sensible I will use that.

I also have a 264 Win Mag as my main hunting rifle but recoil / powder use / barrel life makes it a foolish choice for bunnies. Although I did try 90 gr TNT on rabbits and wallabies  :Cool: 

I also like to do target and long range plinking out to 1600m. I would like to use this rifle for varmints and the occasional steel shoot to 1000m (max). I can get hold of projectiles and factory ammunition at a reasonable discount and would like to be able to shoot factory ammo in a pinch.

So far the 6mm is sounding like the best of both worlds and 6.5 CM is looking good too.

Again keep the replies coming I appreciate your feedback.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Flip...... Well that's a spanner in the works! May have to rethink the question on my part.... Instead of a 6.5Cm....... Why not a 6.5-06AI...... That'll have the legs your after😄

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## hotbarrels

One thing to consider when hunting small varmints such as rabbits at long range is that part of the (sick) pleasure derived from the sport (refer to the thread about what we find relaxing) is the acrobatics they perform when being hit by the high speed projectile.  Its actually quite amusing and sometime damn hilarious!  Therefore being able to witness the impact is (IMHO) quite important.

Bigger calibers with higher recoil and high powered scopes with small fields of view means missed acrobatics.  Having shot several thousand rabbits in the Hawkes Bay in the past two years, the difference between shooting the .223 and the .22-250 is quite marked.  The .223 recoil allows you to maintain vision on the target.  The .22-250 recoil is just enough for you to miss some impacts.  .243 is hopeless.
When I am out hunting rabbits, I take the .223 (or even the HMR) unless I know that the ranges are getting out to +250m or the breeze is getting up, at which point I start going up in the caliber.

Just worth considering if you want to see the kill on a small target.

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## southernman

> One thing to consider when hunting small varmints such as rabbits at long range is that part of the (sick) pleasure derived from the sport (refer to the thread about what we find relaxing) is the acrobatics they perform when being hit by the high speed projectile.  Its actually quite amusing and sometime damn hilarious!  Therefore being able to witness the impact is (IMHO) quite important.
> 
> Bigger calibers with higher recoil and high powered scopes with small fields of view means missed acrobatics.  Having shot several thousand rabbits in the Hawkes Bay in the past two years, the difference between shooting the .223 and the .22-250 is quite marked.  The .223 recoil allows you to maintain vision on the target.  The .22-250 recoil is just enough for you to miss some impacts.  .243 is hopeless.
> When I am out hunting rabbits, I take the .223 (or even the HMR) unless I know that the ranges are getting out to +250m or the breeze is getting up, at which point I start going up in the caliber.
> 
> Just worth considering if you want to see the kill on a small target.


 Well said, hot barrel's 
 this and the cost, are the reason I favor the 17 fireball, 17 hornet, .204 and humble .222, for varmints, 
 for a pure varmint cal the little 17 hornet is cheap to run, and big on performance. 

 From the additional info, the orginal poster 300 BLK, has given, and his desire to use factory, I think the .243 or 6mm rem, or perhaps the .260 or 6.5 CM,  in that order are his best options.

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## NZVarminter

if your serious about varminting, then barrel life needs to be considered.

In 0.224 cal a 22-250 will give you 1200-1500 rounds before your throat and accuracy goes south.

In 6mm cal a 243/creedmore case capacity is not gong to give you much more with light projectiles and full powder charges. Thats why Tubbs developed the 6 XC with smaller case capacity

By comparison a 6mmBr will give you 3000-4000 rounds before accuracy starts to go. 6mmBr will push the 87vM at 3100fps which is pretty close to what you get from 243.

If your considering 6mm then 6.5*47 or 6mm XC is better case to build on.

Other point to remember is varmints are small light framed animals, so non plastic tipped projectiles dont work! i.e. bergers. Once you go to 6mm you there is only one vld type projectile that works (105AM) all the other 95+ vlds drill straight through.

I'm just doing load dev on a 22Br shooting 75 AM. Can get to 3300fps with no pressure signs. Havnt been in field with it yet but the 0.224 75 AM has hight bc than 6mm 87 VM and that explosive from 50-400m so expect the 75 AM to have similar terminal performance but shoot flatter and better in wind.

Hotbarrels comments about recoil are also very relevant. Half the fun with varminting is seeing the hits. 204 is magic, 20Br has enough extra recoil to loose your sight picture if not a heavy gun.

Cheers

grant

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## 300_BLK

Hi Team,

Thanks for all the advice. Going with a fast twist 22-250 AI Tikka in a GRS Berserk stock. 

Will throat it for the 75Amax and get a 20MOA rail, Gunworks maximus, glass bed action, AI mag bottom metal, Tikka Snow bolt knob (off super varmint)  Spuhr mount, S&B 5-25x56 Mil / Mil DT for glass.

Will put pics up when complete  :Thumbsup:

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## TeRei

243 with 55gr pills. Seen one burnt under 300 rounds.

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## 223nut

On a similar line to this thread, what would the barrel expectancy be out of a tikka 223 running factory rounds? Prob up to about 250-300 havent noticed any problems yet

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## StrikerNZ

> On a similar line to this thread, what would the barrel expectancy be out of a tikka 223 running factory rounds? Prob up to about 250-300 havent noticed any problems yet


Bog standard 223?

My remington has gotta be up over 6k rounds through the barrel by now.. Maybe 60/40 varied factory ammo vs warmish handloads.. Have started to wonder recently if it was starting to open up a little bit, but maybe I've just forgotten how to shoot paper. Rabbits and roos still die fine. 

I believe 6-10k rounds is about the expected life of a 223..

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## 223nut

Yeah bog standard, cheers

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## hotbarrels

> Hi Team,
> 
> Thanks for all the advice. Going with a fast twist 22-250 AI Tikka in a GRS Berserk stock. 
> 
> Will throat it for the 75Amax and get a 20MOA rail, Gunworks maximus, glass bed action, AI mag bottom metal, Tikka Snow bolt knob (off super varmint)  Spuhr mount, S&B 5-25x56 Mil / Mil DT for glass.
> 
> Will put pics up when complete


Will the 22-250 feed through the AI mag?  I have a T3 in 22-250 and was liking for extra mag capacity but every extended mag option I came across has an express disclaimer on the feeding of 22.250?? Ended up importing 4 extra factory mags out of the USA.

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## hotbarrels

> Yeah bog standard, cheers


The biggest killer of barrels outside of erosion is heat. Keep your barrel cool and you will extend its life considerably.

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## 300_BLK

> Will the 22-250 feed through the AI mag?  I have a T3 in 22-250 and was liking for extra mag capacity but every extended mag option I came across has an express disclaimer on the feeding of 22.250?? Ended up importing 4 extra factory mags out of the USA.


22-250 with AI mags 22-250 AI has very little taper adn therefore should work from a 10 shot mag, but in my experience the only way to find things out for certain is to do em yourself, besides its just money... :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 

  @StrikerNZ my good friend is a rabbiter in central uses 223 55gr V-Max, 24.5gr WW748 and got 15k out of his last barrel before he started to shoot below 95%. Then he re-barreled, accuracy went from .5 to 1.5 MOA and missing too many.

When you do it for a living, each shot counts and each miss costs.

F.

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## 300_BLK

> Hi Team,
> 
> Thanks for all the advice. Going with a fast twist 22-250 AI Tikka in a GRS Berserk stock. 
> 
> Will throat it for the 75Amax and get a 20MOA rail, Gunworks maximus, glass bed action, AI mag bottom metal, Tikka Snow bolt knob (off super varmint)  Spuhr mount, S&B 5-25x56 Mil / Mil DT for glass.
> 
> Will put pics up when complete


Here she is... :Thumbsup: 



Load development this week coming before the maiden trip to central.

Went with a 22 Terminator (22-204 Ruger) via @Kiwi Greg and Tom Curtis at Deadeye Dicks  :Cool: 

Dies sorted and 600 x 75 amax arrived, also have 300 x 50 z-max too.

I will try 222 Rem Mag data and work up with WW747 (belmont action rifle).

Should get 22-250 performance without the noise, recoil for less than 30 gr powder.

F.

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## res

> Here she is...
> 
> Attachment 60441
> 
> Load development this week coming before the maiden trip to central.
> 
> Went with a 22 Terminator (22-204 Ruger) via @Kiwi Greg and Tom Curtis at Deadeye Dicks 
> 
> Dies sorted and 600 x 75 amax arrived, also have 300 x 50 z-max too.
> ...


That's pure gun porn right there!

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## viper

looks very nice, enjoy central, it will get a good work out down here, a lot of rabbits about after a mild winter.

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## rossi.45

how did the load development / maiden trip to Central go with the 22 Terminator ?

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## 300_BLK

Glad you asked.

Just got back and managed to knock over a fallow yearling at 350m, 10 Wallabys at around 300m some goats in the nevis out to 400m and i didn't count the rabbits.

Load dev was good. 

I tried the 75 gr Amax and 50 gr Zmax all with Murom SRM primers and Belmont Action Rifle powder.






50 gr Zmax still require more load dev as the 29 gr loads showed no pressure signs but I didn't manage to chrony them. The 27 gr load was doing 3250 but i should be able to get plenty more.

Still waiting on some load data from KG for 2206h and 2208.

Settled for the 75 gr amax doing 2880 fps and thats what I took all of the game with.

Terminal performance of the 75gr A-max was superb on the Fallow, low chest shot took off the bottom of the heart and lungs, exit was about 2" in diameter, observed the claret pumping out at a furious rate before she collapsed. The gun is so quiet you don't require hearing protection and soft shooting you can observe fall of shot.



Tried to film the deer but was on last light. Here is the first of the wallabies shot (onside shoulder and exit in neck), next nine were at ranges between 250m and 2m, again great terminal performance.




Those wee pills are great at bucking the wind




Big thanks to @Kiwi Greg

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## bully

How big are the squares?
A hornady tech told me 50gr v or z max will self destruct on the way to the target in a 8 twist at 3300.

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## 300_BLK

> How big are the squares?
> A hornady tech told me 50gr v or z max will self destruct on the way to the target in a 8 twist at 3300.


 @bully black squares are 1"

Zmax hold together fine

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## MassiveAttack

> How big are the squares?
> A hornady tech told me 50gr v or z max will self destruct on the way to the target in a 8 twist at 3300.


I am shooting them at 3130 and haven't had any problems.

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## southernman

Shit I am shooting 40gr v-max out of my Sako 75 .223 fast twist, (3600fps) you would think, they would fly apart, long before a 50gr, v-max.
 I can say, that a Speer TNT green in 30gr doesn't hit target very often, from my .223, but I don't have a .22 hornet anymore, so had to give it a go.

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## Marty Henry

How different to the 223 magnum is the 22 terminator and what are its advantages. Seems as the 204 was based on the 223 mag necking it back up is just re arranging the deckchairs. Honest question as i am cosidering buying another 22 250 but this caught my eye.

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## bully

> How different to the 223 magnum is the 22 terminator and what are its advantages. Seems as the 204 was based on the 223 mag necking it back up is just re arranging the deckchairs. Honest question as i am cosidering buying another 22 250 but this caught my eye.



You mean 222 Magnum.
Search for 22 terminator Greg goes over this in a few threads.
Yes iv had the 50's doing 3300 in a 223, and no problems, I only mentioned it as the guy with the terminator said he was going to get them going a lot faster. Just a friendly heads up.

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## 300_BLK

> You mean 222 Magnum.
> Search for 22 terminator Greg goes over this in a few threads.
> Yes iv had the 50's doing 3300 in a 223, and no problems, I only mentioned it as the guy with the terminator said he was going to get them going a lot faster. Just a friendly heads up.


I believe the shoulder angle of the 222 Mag was improved when the 204 Ruger was developed.

With a fast twist barrel you are getting 222 Mag performance + and the benefits of the heavier, high BC projectiles which retain their energy at longer ranges.
 @Marty Henry you are getting 22-250 performance with 25 - 30 grains of ball powder or 24-28 grains of extruded powder without the recoil and noise of the 250. Personally I love the 22-250 and will likely buy another out of pure nostalgia...

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