# Hunting > Game Bird Hunting >  fish and game elections

## gsp follower

> Central South Island Fish and Game Council
> 2015 Election
> Candidate Nominations
> Nominations for the Central South Island Fish and Game Council triennial election closed at 5pm Thursday
> 27th August 2015.
> 16 nominations were received for the 12 positions on the Council. The candidates in alphabetical order are:
> Surname First Name Sub-Region
> Bannister Steve Ashburton
> Cruden John Timaru District
> ...


on ya big green and workingman.
why does hawkes bay only have 8 positions???where everywhere else has 12??



> *19 nominations were received for the 8 positions on the Council.* The candidates in alphabetical order are:
> Surname First Name Sub-Region
> Bates Bruce Hastings
> Boaler Murray Hastings
> Dolding Philip Central Hawke's Bay
> Duley Greg Napier
> Elstone Paul Hastings
> Harding Xan Hastings
> Hern Dave Central Hawke's Bay
> ...


not half fuckin confusing is it??

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## workingman

Thanks for putting that up GSP Follower. I want to work towards increasing habitat and also try to improve the upland hunting.

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## gsp follower

> *Thanks for putting that up* GSP Follower. *I want to work towards increasing habitat and also try to improve the upland hunting.*


not a problem  :Thumbsup: 
me thinks there could be some under utilised quail hunting up the ashburton gorge way.
i put it to big green once maybe some partnership possibilities with some of the irrigation pond  owners that dont get utilised??

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## morgun

I believe that HB hadn't had enough people put there names forward to have an election for the last 3 or 4 elections, so the thinking was to reduce the number ( only has to be a maximum of 12 ) to 8 so an election was more likely. Of course murhpy's law means 19 people put there names in :Psmiley:  including the ex manager which could be interesting

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## gsp follower

> I believe that HB hadn't had enough people put there names forward to have an election for the last 3 or 4 elections, so the thinking was to reduce the number ( only has to be a maximum of 12 ) to 8 so an election was more likely. Of course murhpy's law means 19 people put there names in including the ex manager which could be interesting


so are 8 positions on the councill in total??reduced from 12.
mmm a cynical and suspicious persons conspiracy,ometer would be working overtime about now :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 

some interesting candidates to who''want to a more co,operative way to dealng with the bays irrigation projects'' bollocks :Grin: 
like saying preserve owners now releasing put and take mallards had no intention of shooting them once they got thier foot in the rule change door.
whats our resident ,or any other bloody  candidates for that matter,position on bringing layout blinds and boats under the protection of f&g rules?? rather than the current position of looking the other way :O O:

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## gsp follower

[QUOTEAfter some serious hard thought and discussion with various people, I have decided to stand again. Like Guy, Im of the belief that too long on council stifles positivity and "new energy and ideas."* I also feel we achieved much of what we set out to when we first stood.*
However it has become apparent that the majority of the newer councilors have decided not to return, which is worrying of itself.][/QUOTE]

mm so alls well in auckland waikato research collated recomendations made and ready to be acted on "duck numbers are restored? polluted wetlands cleaned up? and peace on earth achieved??
ahahahhhh no but they have ,via eastern and with docs collusion,got released mallards on preserves thru just a matter of time now but that couldnt be the reason for a sudden block exodus ?could it??

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## gsp follower

> Rearing and releasing programmes
> 8.1 Introduction
> Rearing and releasing programmes are often viewed as a quick fix solution to creating more ducks.
> To date, both internationally and in the Waikato results have been mixed.* In general harvest rates
> are low for captive-reared ducks released into the wild.* *In the Waikato results have varied from less
> than 1% in a wetland area to 22% on Matingarahi Station where a concerted effort was made to
> feed the birds and control predators. In addition, captive-reared mallards have typically been shot
> on the property where they were released, and thus the returns are highly localised.*
> Releasing programmes have been controversial in North America and the latest review conducted by
> ...


SHIT HOT FOR A 22%INCREASE IN THE RELEASERS BAG THO ??WONDER HOW MANY WILD BIRDS ARE DRAWN BY THE HUNDREDS OF CAPTIVE RELEASE FED BIRDS :Oh Noes:  :O O:

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## Breda

GSP Follower- Refer back to my advice on the Brace Yourself thread. The reduction of 12 positions to 8 coinciding with a high number of candidates is luck. I understand the CEO favours smaller councils, possibly to induce more elections making F&G seem less disfranchised with those it supposedly advocates for?

I thought you'd like this- *"I’m must say I don’t share any enthusiasm for the late Bob McDowell who I knew personally - (we went to Palmerston North Boys High School together - a couple of classes back). We occasionally met in years later and I recall in the 1970s he and Bryce Johnson urging me to drop opposition to trout farming".* A quote attributed to Tony Orman

Interesting there is a some current discourse by trout fishers over trout farming around Taupo- while the likes of Lyndsey Lyons NZF&G Council Chairman- has done his best to enable farmed ducking.... go figure. It is only an assumption that people will spend many thousands buying birds, feeding them gamekeeping and have guests turn up from wherever without cost recovery occurring. It is highly probable they are duck philanthropists- bless their kind soles. 

It is also an assumption there will be "creep" in landowners discovering they can charge reasonably openly to shoot the resource our hunting tax manages for us (?). The future looks great for people of limited means which is spot on as the laws were put in place to ensure classless hunting.

Some basic observations relating to duck breeding:-

The regions showing the greatest anecdotal dissatisfaction with the resource are the regions most progressive with bird breeding- which may only be a coincidence or a need for more philanthropy.

Hunters I have been in contact with, shooting within a few kilometres of where tame mallards have been held and released  have found significant decline in their own shooting returns and never shot a tame banded bird. This is either a coincidence or a tribute to gamekeeping excellence which should be applauded in my view.

DoC don't appear to have done any pre permit studies on the impact bred birds might have on the wild population. I could imagine fed tame birds creating a significant drain on wild populations especially in area's where feeding isn't allowed- e.g. A/W where no feed 1 month out and within 100 meters of shooting stands- a rule seemingly designed for good gamekeeping. I imagine you could train tame and wild alike to tolerate gunfire and even come to a whistle? (this would save some of us having to buy a duck call, assuming you can whistle, decoys and camo clothing, thus cheapening the noble art of duck bothering)  

Nothing happens without the nod of the CEO. Nothing happens without the nod of the CEO. Nothing....

On the other topic you raised GSPF, though I am not willing to deliberately test it- I feel enough precedent has been set relating to F&G willingly ignoring selected laws which would give a half decent lawyer a better than average crack at overturning or defeating court action for no license, using lead etc. I wouldn't take the mitigation option where I to find myself on the wrong side of game regulations, (which is unlikely).

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## gsp follower

> while the likes of Lyndsey Lyons NZF&G Council Chairman- has done his best to enable farmed ducking.... go figure. It is only an assumption that people will spend many thousands buying birds, feeding them gamekeeping and have guests turn up from wherever without cost recovery occurring. It is highly probable they are duck philanthropists- bless their kind soles.


exactly and about as likely as the aw coucillor exodus is because the duck populations are fixed and hunters are happy :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 



> The regions showing the greatest anecdotal dissatisfaction with the resource are the regions most progressive with bird breeding- which may only be a coincidence or a need for more philanthropy.


yep but none of the breeders  are f&g reason? as i posted? its a discreditted localised short term fix for the preserve or syndicates.
gives doc a great chance to stick it to f&g tho how rediculous the statutory body in charge of the species having no say in it captive breeding especially who what for and where?? :O O: 



> On the other topic you raised GSPF, though I am not willing to deliberately test it- I feel enough precedent has been set relating to F&G willingly ignoring selected laws which would give a half decent lawyer a better than average crack at overturning or defeating court action for no license, using lead etc. I wouldn't take the mitigation option where I to find myself on the wrong side of game regulations, (which is unlikely).


im tempted to have doc on to given they use lead when its suits and give blanket excemptions with the same imperious wave of a hand.
hell im only trying to get them to recognise the hypocrisy in choosing which f&g rules they,l allow to be followed on thier oops i mean our fuckin land. :Wtfsmilie:  :Pissed Off:  :Grin: 
i wonder how the crop and other farmers feel about them pestifying one introduced winged species then openly encouraging mass permitted breeding of another winged and introduced species many farmers consider just as much a nuisance???

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## EeeBees

Bravo, @gsp follower...

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## gsp follower

jesus whats going on in hawkes bay??
it would seem the collusion between sections of the players there and in eastern[apparently the centre of all things unholy in f&g at the mo]has created a right mess..
when commercial interests enter gamebirding its only a matter of time before they put thier interests above the sport.tho with sporting goods sellers that would be self deafeating, not so game bird sellers who are looking for s a steady clientele of syndicates preserves needing to restock yearly ala englands geen and pleasant expensive land.

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## gqhoon

Good to see you're not letting any facts on these matters cloud your opinion KWB. You're consistent, if nothing else.

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## gsp follower

> Good to see you're not letting any facts on these matters cloud your opinion KWB. *You're consistent, if nothing else.*


as are you gq even with the rats abandoning the at least leaky ship now they,ve got thier put and take ducks.
 im betting  your right in there tuttutting and excusing them.
 well as the chief cheer leader for change in aw/eastern  why dont you inform us of the facts as you see them  gquoon??
after all the change in aw bailing before the job is even half done would appear as a dukshooter  ''i told you so ''moment?
are you a fan of easterns allowing preserve duck shooting given the reports in the aw waterfowl stradegy that the gains from sydicate and ''properties with special conditions'' are short term and localised?

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## EeeBees

Um...still waiting for my voting paper...

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## Mike H

> as are you gq even with the rats abandoning the at least leaky ship now they,ve got thier put and take ducks.
>  im betting  your right in there tuttutting and excusing them.
>  well as the chief cheer leader for change in aw/eastern  why dont you inform us of the facts as you see them  gquoon??
> after all the change in aw bailing before the job is even half done would appear as a dukshooter  ''i told you so ''moment?
> are you a fan of easterns allowing preserve duck shooting given the reports in the aw waterfowl stradegy that the gains from sydicate and ''properties with special conditions'' are short term and localised?


Follow this link for a response from the Hawkes Bay chairman on the issues and theres also a link to the minutes of their last meeting. Makes for interesting reading.

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaB...42805968/12#12

Minutes: http://hawkesbay.fishandgame.org.nz/...%20%282%29.pdf

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## EeeBees

@gsp follower, you know what the manual states...in the absence of adequate leadership...

one thing I want to know...if you catch wild birds, and/or pinch their eggs...is that not outside the concept of a permit to RAISE gamebirds...or is it simply one of those delicious grey, ooops, gray areas that those with little integrity will cash in on no matter what?   Some people rant and rave about the dirth of ducks, meanwhile, others are catching the very females that produce a wild duck population...

I think that driven ducks is monstrous...they are *TAME* by the time the drives are made...how fricking sporting is that... :Pissed Off:

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## EeeBees

We must remember, chaps, that this is all a guise to get the rough shooter out of the rough...I would like to know the percentage of licences purchased by the everyday man/lady shooter in comparison to those with the means to gain a peg and shoot on a preserve...

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## gqhoon

Well I do attend Council meetings as a member of the public and inform myself of the facts KWB, rather than relying on the diatribe that is often offered on internet forums. I go and see how the meetings actually operate, how the individuals interact with other and how they respond to proposals and new initiatives. That's why I see the election process as a bit of a farce, as few people would bother to actually inform themselves of the performance or abilities of prospective candidates. If they did, I think they would be embarrassed at what they saw.

I wonder if you can say the same?

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## Breda

> Follow this link for a response from the Hawkes Bay chairman on the issues and theres also a link to the minutes of their last meeting. Makes for interesting reading.
> 
> FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 - Important meeting this Wednesday
> 
> Minutes: http://hawkesbay.fishandgame.org.nz/...%20%282%29.pdf


I am glad you bought this up Mike. I first got wind of something wrong with a FB post by Guy Ralph. Being a wet day today (no work) I had a look at what you have posted and it perked my interest!

My first observation was "WOW" what a nasty use of minutes from the "special meeting". This looks like an unfair kindy fight. Not a lot of class on display.

I then went looking for more minutes to see if I could derive some background. That these special meeting minutes have appeared before the August meeting minutes was an intriguing oddity.

The one thing I find interesting (I don't find the tiff between parties interesting) is that the fact the new council will be made up of 8 councillors instead of 12 and the timing of everything. Depending on what you read and who you ask the change was made between 18 months and about a year ago. This would surely be done by resolution of council? I looked back to 2013 and couldn't find anything in the minutes except the bit below.  

From the April 2015 HB minutes * council look at the possibility of reducing the council numbers to eight councillors. Council instructed the manager that this item be added to June agenda.*

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## gsp follower

> Saying we lowered the councillor numbers to 8 to keep others out - that is absolutely preposterous. In HB we have not had an election for 3 terms because not enough people have put their names forward. *If you haven’t been elected by the licence holders, how can you say you have a mandate to act on behalf of the licence holders*


?jesus careful greg thats tantamount to hieracy
how about hawkes bay voters electing councillors  in aw/eastern greg ??
 who.s idea was the confidentiality agreement i doubt theyre mandatory in employment law??
why would one be neccessary  unless both sides have something to hide:wtfsmilie  :Grin: 



> thats why I see the election process as a bit of a farce, as few people would bother to actually inform themselves of the performance or abilities of prospective candidates. If they did, I think they would be embarrassed at what they saw.


im embarassed i didnt believe dukshooter more and see these preserve groupies for what they were sooner :XD: 
 why else would you bail unless you,d got what you want id be staying untill they chucked me out to make up for my indiscretions.

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## gqhoon

> im embarassed i didnt believe dukshooter more and see these preserve groupies for what they were sooner
>  why else would you bail unless you,d got what you want especialy after a dirty dairying conviction id be staying untill they chucked me out to make up for it.


Why don't you ring him and find out, instead of peeking through the windows of the other forum and cutting and pasting posts out of context?

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## gsp follower

> one thing I want to know...if you catch wild birds, and/or pinch their eggs...is that not outside the concept of a permit to RAISE gamebirds..


where is the seed stock of mallards for these permits  coming from ????



> Why don't you ring him and find out, instead of *peeking through the windows of the other forum and cutting and pasting posts out of context?*


a] mike h posted the link 
b] if i had dukshooters number i would :Wink: 



> how fricking sporting is that...


about 4 t0 800 dollars a day sporting eebees :Grin: 
after all the amount you pay along with the right clothes and gear determines your right to the best sport dont you know :XD:

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## gqhoon

i was referring to Shanks' post on the other forum which you cut and paste to here and then took his comments out of context.

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## gsp follower

> i was referring to Shanks' post on the other forum which you cut and paste to here and then took his comments out of context.


how ??my comments are my own on what he says certainly and my spin on it is obviously based on nothing he,s said other than a lot of coucillors aint re upping.
 but he does say its worrying  and he doesnt feel he could leave now for which i applaud him .
my impression is that he doesnt believe the job in aw is anywhere done either?
still a free country for a little bit longer anyway gq :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## gqhoon

You've taken his reasons for staying and turned it around on the people who have chosen not to stand again. The reality is you have no idea why two first-term Councillors are not standing again. You've just made shit up and some how included fictitious duck-preserves which only exist in your imagination.

Unless you've attended these meetings and seen for yourself how dysfunctional they can be, then you would have no idea of the frustrations felt by those who have taken on their role with the best of intentions, but feel let down by the system. And yet still the system (organisational structure) exists, and will persist until enough people choose to do something about it.

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## Breda

> Why don't you ring him and find out, instead of peeking through the windows of the other forum and cutting and pasting posts out of context?


Come on Mitch. You chaps got your censorship on the other forum, now you don't want people looking? Friends of Alan have a propaganda platform all but and you're still not happy....... Perhaps Alan and friends have tentacles in this forum and you could stifle debate here with "bannings" too?

I have a lot of time for you Mitch but sadly the only time we see your intellect on display is at election time when keyboard bullying those you feel of lesser intellect or when defending the guys that supply your shooting or clouding the issue with your irrelevance. Context or not GSPF is relevant- you are showing as a parasite that hangs below the sphincter every three years to crow for your host. Healthy host healthy parasite- I do get it.

I personally would love to see a post from you of your involvement with the Waterfowl Enhancement Trust and the projects you're/ it are involved in. There is a positive post on contribution to the game bird scene trapped in you waiting to pop out I am positive.

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## gsp follower

Greg Duley, NZ Hunter
Active Member
***

[QUOTE*] If the current councillors wanted to ensure they got back in the last thing they would do is lower the council numbers*! That is totally illogical and just mischief making from anyone suggesting it! *We moved to go to 8 councillors about a year ago,* long before all these management issues and  election hooha blew up anyway, and strongly recommended that all regions that haven’t had an election for some time do the same.[/QUOTE]
Tim Allen 
[QUOTE*]Depending on what you read and who you ask the change was made between 18 months and about a year ago. This would surely be done by resolution of council? I looked back to 2013 and couldn't find anything in the minutes except the bit below. 

From the April 2015 HB minutes council look at the possibility of reducing the council numbers to eight councillors. Council instructed the manager that this item be added to June agenda*.[/QUOTE]
not unless you were very sure of your support base :Have A Nice Day: 
instead of trying to draw me into a personel arguement gq how about offering your obvious experienced opinion on these quotes??
 i say again confidentiality aggreements are to hide stuff both parties dont want to come out or as a way of hiding a large payment to shut somone up.
from the hakes bay june agenda


> 11.0 General Business.
> Elections.
> The chairman raised the matter of the elections to be held in October, he suggested promoting
> an election for the Hawkes Bay region,* council look at the possibility of reducing the council
> numbers to eight councillors. Council instructed the manager that this item be added to June
> agenda.* Cr Boaler asked for an indication of who would be standing at the next elections, 
> Page 7 of 33
> which might influence who would put their names forward, the chair said this was not
> necessary. No commitments were tabled at this stage





> Agenda
> HAWKE’S BAY REGION
> 9
> th June 2015


how could you add something to the june agenda when this is from the june agenda/meeting theres no mention of the numbers change bieng discussed or voted on at this meeting or the august one??


> 6.0 MATTERS ARISING:
> There were no matters arising.





> *You've just made shit up and some how included fictitious duck-preserves which only exist in your imagination.*.


i know i shouldnt but i cant resist gq are the permits issued by doc ficticious to?? :Redbullsmiley:

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## gqhoon

Tim, you levelled a similar accusation at me some time back, regarding my support of Paul Stenning on a particular issue. You felt I was only doing so in order to secure some shooting for myself……with a chap that I’ve never met or even had a first-hand conversation with no less. Now that may be the way your mind works, but its not the way mine does.

And If what you say was correct, and I only have something to say at election time, then I’m not sure why I attend Council meetings with the frequency that I do (more often than some Councillors, it would seem).  I’m not sure why I seek to inform myself as to the way the Council operates, or see first-hand some of the dysfunction that exists, or has existed in the past. I’m not sure why I choose to pull Council up on matters, when I see it operating beyond its jurisdiction, without mandate or without authority. Granted, a lot of these issues are historical, but they are a symptom of the institutionalised behaviour that has become ‘acceptable’ and common-place within the organisation. Although when a Councillor stands up in a meeting and bellows across the room at me about how offended he is at something I’ve said, then I sense a faint glimmer of hope that atleast he may have been listening 

Consider that in the last 2 A/W Region elections, there have been 4 first-term Councillors who have decided not to stand for a second-term. These are people who have stood for Council with the best of intentions who felt they could represent stakeholders in a positive manner, but have ultimately been ‘ground-down’ by either the system or the people within it, to the point where they feel they are no longer effective. Now, it could be that these people just aren’t cut out for the job and don’t have the tenacity for it…….but ask yourself what is worse, a system that is ‘broken’ and doesn’t deliver the outcomes it should, or the people who allow it continue unchanged either through ignorance or complicity?

As for a personal argument KWB, I will continue to pull you up on matters when you are clearly just making shit up. Why don’t you inform YOURSELF of the facts, instead of simply making up stories to support your beliefs.

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## kotuku

Oh christ here we go again .Frankly old chap after being on this forum <i wouldnt wipe my arse with all the syncophants youvegot over there and i bloody told alan simmons so albeit a little mopre politely than im telling you!-simmons BTW knew nothing of our banning says it must been the moderators.Fine by me they can all get a big fat one up them including mr "brand'shooter!

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## Breda

> Oh christ here we go again .Frankly old chap after being on this forum <i wouldnt wipe my arse with all the syncophants youvegot over there and i bloody told alan simmons so albeit a little mopre politely than im telling you!-simmons BTW knew nothing of our banning says it must been the moderators.Fine by me they can all get a big fat one up them including mr "brand'shooter!


Alan said the same to me when I took the piss out of a recent email I got from him asking me for a donation. The banning's were a political censoring exercise. Nothing else. I think you'll find Paul had less to do with it than you think. It is of no consequence to the thread topic either way.

Think of things this way. What you get is Mitch/ GQ and co turn up and bury issue's like driven duck shooting by posting irrelevant shit- here FB where ever. They want discussion in area's they have control. How they get control is topical in relation to this thread. Elections. They don't like what you have to say and you play their game......I've done it with this post.

GSPF asked GQ's opinion on a topical issue- and you get a half page useless waffle. It would be useful to see him apply his considerable talent in an unbiased manner.

I'd also ask GQ's opinion on the difference between governance and management using the following minute excerpt. Many probably don't understand the difference.

McIntosh presented the council with the draft list of questions and requested their input.
*Council requested the A to G options to question 12- What is the biggest issue facing waterfowl hunting in the Hawkes Bay be deleted*, reasoning that by not listing options hunters would not be limited in their options and experiences. *Council instruct staff to include*  Are you doing any predator control?

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## gqhoon

This is a thread on elections. The subject of those in A/W who have decided not to restand was raised. KWB offered his opinion on why those people arent restanding. I countered that he didnt actually know the reasons. He asked me what the reasons were. I replied with what I know to be the reasons for their decisions.

I cant explain it any simpler than that.

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## kotuku

Hmmm -you do of course realise youll never get the protected status here than you get on the other side.If my memory serves me correctly youve popped up like a sniper before on some other issue and got your nuts handed to you on a plate. Id actually considered standing for F&G locally this year till I took the time to speak to a few wise old heads including incumbents. To put it in a nutshell I decided NO,but why I've no intention of making public on any social media least of all faeces book!

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## Breda

I said wow yesterday and its a double wow today! There have been some big turn ups. Apparently the dirt in the Hawkes Bay is flying both ways? I have my ear to the ground for curiosity sakes but it is one way traffic. Camp current is winning by a length or two! Would I want to be an employee of the current council based on actions (I am aware of) to date? Not a chance!! (not apportioning right or wrong to allegations either) I am quite surprised the chairman- a person I admire and think of as a huge talent has involved himself in such a way on public forums- such is the emotion of the situation. The current council could be damaging future employment opportunities in my eyes among other things that being said. The election will occur and the dust will settle. Hopefully councillors front legal bills incurred themselves should they occur.

Like most of us "out of the loop" we are left with what we can find on line. I notice the target of some very unsavoury behaviour by standing council and allies is former manager Pete McIntosh - who said in his profile *"Councillors should not ignore their statutory obligation to monitor mallard populations, as is currently happening even though this iconic game bird species is in decline. Presently Hawkes Bay is the only region in the country NOT. involved in the national mallard research projects".*

From reading recent minutes it does appear that council has questioned involvement with banding and the use of transect counts. This is terribly sad as not only is monitoring a statutory requirement the standardisation of monitoring is one thing I wanted to see (as a councillor) up and down the country. It makes sense and regional data over time will become comparable with other regional trends. Wildlife management starts with population monitoring. And F&G has been woeful to this point. Why would a council question it's involvement in statutory obligations?

My fear is HB Council has hung it's hat on mallard breeding which I feel has the potential to congregate the wild population- a form of exclusive capture as the only way forward. But as I stated earlier in the thread the regions most active in breeding and commercial shooting are the ones anecdotally showing most distress among license buyers. Without monitoring you wouldn't know if the publics resource is being kept from the public? 

I have little doubt there is embarrassment being caused both ways but underlying is actual issue's concerning the future of F&G as we knew it and our resource. Think about it. I will be back tomorrow with another instalment Hawkes Bay Elections Today. (way better than Reno Rumble) cheers for the entertainment.

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## Mike H

Certainly some interesting arrangements with regards to how the ballots are drawn in HB if the emails posted on Fishnhunt are legit. Worth a read.

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## gsp follower

> As for a personal argument *KWB, I will continue to pull you up on matters when you are clearly just making shit up*. Why don’t you inform YOURSELF of the facts, *instead of simply making up stories to support your beliefs*.


am i making up that the allowance of preserves in other regions was used to get them in aw
am i making up that eastern changed their local rules to allow duckshooting on properties with special conditions/preserves therefore creating a precedent where others can follow??
am i making up that doc is issueing captive mallard breeding permits to sydicates and associates of said properties??
wheres the breeding stock coming from gq and why has it never been declared as a conflict of interest??
by the bye what the fuck is a eastern manager doing in hb poking his nose into that regions election meetings??
may be he was on a stock buying trip ?? couldnt be cos aw f&g says captive mallard breeding programs are short term localised, mostly to the property the were bred on,ineffective population growers

.[QUOTE*]My fear is HB Council has hung it's hat on mallard breeding which I feel has the potential to congregate the wild population- a form of exclusive capture as the only way forward*[/QUOTE]

do you mean captive breeding tim?
if so then im guessing they,d have some conflict of interest issues on top of the rest of the bollocks

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## kiwijames

This is pretty disappointing stuff. I guess the stuff on the other forum is the recovered emails? If so, pretty damning.
Should the not be a red flag with so many looking for election also having a potential conflict of interest? The Game park manager?, the guides?, the bird rearer? the beater?, the caterer? Not saying there is any just transparency appears to be low.

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## Breda

You're not wrong there Mike! I "peeked" through "the window" but decided to reserve judgement on the leaked emails as without knowing the parties or the wider context it is hard to make safe comment?? I mean- I can see why it's been presented and how we are meant to interpret it. BUT it could simply be a young naive employee joking with two people well known to him quite unaware council and manager would end up in a bitter enough dispute to turn lives upside down?? I don't know. 

If I can find out more I'll place opinion on the situation.

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## gsp follower

> Certainly some interesting arrangements with regards to how the ballots are drawn in HB if the emails posted on Fishnhunt are legit. Worth a read.


i find your new found voyeurism slightly disturbing mike h :Grin: 
 as a councillor whats your take on the current hb chairmans statements re the drop in voted in councillors to 8 and the lack of evidence to support his assertions it was and is all above board voted on and in the minutes ?somewhere??also the airing of thier dirty laundry in this way??
could there be another reason hb wanted immediate access to the computers like to see if something needs up dating?? or has been copied?? and retained?
CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT  :Grin:  :Grin:  the haven of the guilty/embarrsassed and the result of misbehavior on both sides of a situation :Oh Noes:  :Angry: 
does anyone know for sure if bevan whatsherface has visited hawkes bay in the last 12 months??

----------


## Mike H

I have no reason to believe the drop in numbers wasn't to ensure an election as he has said. How they went about it I'm not sure as I don't know what the process is for that.

I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side. 

If the emails are legit and the stories of files and computers being deleted are true then there's only one party looking bad so far IMO. There's been no evidence provided to suggest the Councillors have been badly behaved.

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## EeeBees

What I dislike about all of this is the lack of respect...people are voted on to the council and squander the purpose of being there...this is not a joke, it is not a playway...when you have people paying money for a license you have a moral obligation to see that it is not one for one but one for all...the respected Mr Bill Spooner would be absolutely aghast at how things are these days...he was the most selfless of gentlemen and dedicated his life to the cause...

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## EeeBees

Eight on the council...why an even number...to be truly democratic an odd number allows for the power of veto...if the vote was even, then what?

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## stug

> Eight on the council...why an even number...to be truly democratic an odd number allows for the power of veto...if the vote was even, then what?


It use to be 12, and sounds like is 12 on most councils, so no real difference there. This is almost as good as the dog section. Entertaining reading. :Thumbsup:

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## Breda

> I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side. 
> 
> If the emails are legit and the stories of files and computers being deleted are true then there's only one party looking bad so far IMO. There's been no evidence provided to suggest the Councillors have been badly behaved.


I'd agree but on one level your two statements contradict each other.




> I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side.


Can you provide links to the pages/ forums/ websites where the chairman has had "shit flying" at him? Currently we only have a suggestion this has occurred.




> There's been no evidence provided to suggest the Councillors have been badly behaved.


In the employment dispute or on social media?

I know nothing of the employment dispute and neither should you? Social media- It's one way traffic. There is a possibility current council is 100% squeaky clean and plays no part in the relationship breakdown council are playing out. However from minutes I have read I have some confusion of what role council thinks it has i.e are they micro managing rather than governing? Setting policy which is its role rather than managing it's own affairs for example. If this didn't play some part in the breakdown I'd be very surprised. The manager manages the outcomes for the policy set by the governors. Councillors are not the managers and not the employers of the staff.

BAD BEHAVIOUR- From a personal observation current council has provided the special meeting minutes within days of the meeting, when the regular meeting minutes from their August meeting have yet to be made available. The content of the special meeting minutes haven't even been confirmed. To an impartial reader it is pretty clear those minutes have more to do with a break down in a relationship and campaigning against an individual rather than the moral conducting of business in a regular manner. So on that level as I have stated the council and chairman have shown a lack of class and behaved badly. I have also said there is not a chance I would want to be employed by them. Look at the potential treatment.

Did I read the current secretary is dishing dirt to current council for airing on public forums. Why would she be asked or get involved? Does council have some damning emails on the secretary? But thats not poor behaviour either.....

Think of it like this Mike. If Greg Duley turned up on national TV in a straight jacket foaming from the mouth tonight he would still be voted back on council on name recognition alone. That is basically how elections work. Greg doesn't need to embroil himself in character assassination and public slinging matches- unless he wants to cloud relevant issue's.

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## gsp follower

[QUOTE*]I have no reason to believe the drop in numbers wasn't to ensure an election as he has said*.* How they went about it I'm not sure as I don't know what the process is for that.*[/QUOTE]
a]not the point 
b]how long you been a southland councillor mike h ??presumembly it would have to be proposed 2nd,d and the national councill would have to be involved either before or after??
what i do find incongrous i apparently the other side of the hb debacle is saying plenty but all we are getting is the chairman/councills side??
guess if you couch your shit slinging in lawyers calls and fiegned courtesy its different from calling a spade a spade over there at least :Grin:

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## gsp follower

[QUOTEI have been told that the council cannot reveal the main reason why the previous managers employment was terminated *as his lawyer demanded a confidentiality agreement.*

Some very dodgy sh*t going on][/QUOTE]

a] what leverage did have have to demand anything??
b]you said a mouthful there pal :Grin:

----------


## Breda

> a]not the point 
> b]how long you been a southland councillor mike h ??presumembly it would have to be proposed 2nd,d and the national councill would have to be involved either before or after??


Mike offered his opinion GSPF. This simply hasn't come up before that I am aware of. There is an election in HB, so if that was the intent it worked. There is an election with 8 candidates. Nothing changes that. Elections underpin the very fabric of our society so I very much doubt anything dodgy has occurred.

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## gsp follower

> Mike offered his opinion GSPF. This simply hasn't come up before that I am aware of. There is an election in HB, so if that was the intent it worked. There is an election with 8 candidates. Nothing changes that.* Elections underpin the very fabric of our society so I very much doubt anything dodgy has occurred.*


ever heard of one richard nixon :Grin:  
and i thank mike for his opinion tim but i seriously thought as a councillor of long standing he might be able to give us at least some clues to the process. i mean shit they couldnt just decide something of that magnitude and not survey thier  licence buyers at least??oops shit sorry mike h to soon huh :Grin: 
i dont doubt its the first tim but id still like to know how it was done just in case theres a second :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 



> *I can't blame the chairman for coming out and putting his views out there as there's a lot of shit flying around about them so they have to be able to offer their side.*


thats the only side we are getting at the mo
 how those censored emails arent a breach of the confidentiality agreement surprises me ?



> I also stand by my statement that this sort of shit is the last thing F&G as a whole needs.* I like your idea of the commissioner to be honest.*


true enough but the last thing you want is government interference that would be just the excuse the f&g haters in  power would need to gut f&g,s structure.
look at ecan and cera as examples.

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## EeeBees

hear, hear, @gsp follower....

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## Breda

> thats the only side we are getting at the mo
>  how those censored emails arent a breach of the confidentiality agreement surprises me ?


And that's all we will get- one side- if the other has any sense. I think it's a bluff. I doubt baiting another party is a new trick. Think of it this way, if the other party breaches confidentiality the terms of the agreement might be annulled? Even in the current council have breached confidentiality it's only more license holder money to defend a case. Council are not personally liable so essentially council can campaign as they like with relative impunity or personal liability. 

May the best 8 win.

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## gsp follower

> And that's all we will get- one side- if the other has any sense. I think it's a bluff.* I doubt baiting another party is a new trick*. Think of it this way, if the other party breaches confidentiality the terms of the agreement might be annulled? Even in the current council have breached confidentiality it's only more license holder money to defend a case. Council are not personally liable so essentially council can campaign as they like with relative impunity or personal liability. 
> 
> May the best 8 win.


i,l pardon the pun tim :Grin: .
i guess they cant be to frightened of whatever leverage he had to get the agreement in the first place or they,re confident in thier numbers to be able to ride it out?

true tim the only loser in the whole thing will the licence payer but im still curious over how the 8 came to be.
8 maybe all rinky dink but if the process to get there isnt open and inclusive then it just smacks of more 'we know whats best for you '' behavior that pee,d  licence buyers off countrywide.
were any of our hb member licence buyers fish or fowl surveyed?? :O O:  :Oh Noes: 
so sad for a region that used to boast its own gamebird release programs and farm.
i shot many ducks on the dams of mangatapiri station out elsthorpe way as a newby on a 20$ licence with a 10 mallard limit.
the big rawhiti dam in the mangatapiri hill paddock with its cabbage tree maimai was something i,l never forget.
 that and getting my uncle who got me into duckshooting onto a few as we jump shot this dam and several others. 
my brother even joined the pass shooters on private land to catch the waves of ducks leaving horseshoe lake on a lowcloud blusterly night or 5.

[QUOTE ] Think of it this way, if the other party breaches confidentiality the terms of the agreement might be annulled? *Even in the current council have breached confidentiality it's only more license holder money to defend a case*.][/QUOTE]

jesus tho what could an employment court or other judge penelise them for such a breach if he considered it a serious and wanton act??

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## EeeBees

Getting back to the office administrator/secretary...got thinking about this today and her cautioning people to be careful what they said is to my mind at least acting in a professional manner...unlike some...

Tim Allen wrote....

Even in the current council have breached confidentiality it's only more license holder money to defend a case.

What would be a ball park figure for such a case...blatant mischief to spend OUR money for what??     

I want to comment also about the ballot blocks...of the blocks I was successful in the ballot, my dogs and I did not see one bird...as in pheasant or quail...NOT A ONE...someone said rather unkindly, well your dogs can't be much good then...my ballot returns reflected this...my young dog did, however, get onto deer scent in the Esk, naturally enough I brought him in as we were not there for big ears...

We did find some lovely watercress...at Tangoio!!!



My bitch and I walked for absolute miles...eight hours of it...cattle had been in the block and had cleaned out the cover for birds...we did see a hare and pig snoutings...



Our sortee to Gwavas was a complete joke...



I am not inferring that I did not appreciate the opportunities to see new ground...

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## Breda

> What would be a ball park figure for such a case...blatant mischief to spend OUR money for what??


Who know's EeeBees?  It'll all come out in the wash no doubt. Speculation won't change anything. There is an election to get past in the mean time. 

Sounds like a tuff time on the pheasants. Hopefully next year you bump into a few. Are any of the blocks you hunted getting stocked?

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## gsp follower

> We did find some lovely watercress...at Tangoio!!!


if only you had some meat and potTAOES TO SERVE IT WITH eebees :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 
was it early or late in the season eebees had it been thrashed before you??

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## EeeBees

@gsp follower...yes, there were boot prints for Africa...no it was I think about the fourth week into the season...
 @Tim Allen....apparently the ballot blocks or at least the forestry blocks have not had released birds put on them for quite a number of years.

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## gsp follower

> @gsp follower...*yes, there were boot prints for Africa...no it was I think about the fourth week into the season...*
>  @Tim Allen....apparently the ballot blocks or at least the forestry blocks have not had released birds put on them for quite a number of years.


maybe pig hunters had access to ??
hard work in a block theyve been thrashing .

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## gsp follower

jesus things seem to begetting very titchy in hawkes bay with he usual suspects clubbing together to undermine and bait a candidate??
true or false undermining a confidentiality agreement to smear a candidate and using various aliases and clique mates to do it seems over the top.
perhaps after the election an audit of the encumbents behavior might cause some tuttuting and cover seeking.



> 3. Eastern will provide a total of 435 hours of staff time to the Hawke’s Bay, these being
> provisionally allocated to the following tasks:
> Admin* 340 hrs
> Trend counts 50 hrs
> Datawatch 25 hrs
> Drift diving 20 hrs*
> 14. Such services will be provided as reasonably required to undertake related Fish and
> Game management activities as set out in the Hawke’s Bay Region Operational Work
> plan for the 2015-2016 year.
> ...


do this at over 50$ an hour plus expences seem pricey or is it just me??

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## Breda

That's probably about the going rate if you're contracting the work. I thick I've been volunteering myself to drift diving too cheap though.

After studying the minutes I have short listed a couple of management candidates to suit the governance style of the HB council.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLsO6LpLSI

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## EeeBees

Gordon Bluddi Bennett, what next...?

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## EeeBees

> That's probably about the going rate if you're contracting the work. I thick I've been volunteering myself to drift diving too cheap though.
> 
> After studying the minutes I have short listed a couple of management candidates to suit the governance style of the HB council.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyLsO6LpLSI


 :Grin:  :Grin:

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## gsp follower

> https://youtu.be/R5yuFc89H9I?t=10


my humble contribution :Grin: 



> That's probably about the going rate if you're contracting the work. I thick I've been volunteering myself to drift diving too cheap though.


no such thing as mates rates between regions huh :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 
now i know why eastern managers are hanging around like a bad smell with a pheasant under one arm and a tame mallard under the other :Grin: 



> Well well, something was gonna happen. Like a boil it was only a matter of time. Unfortunately it would appear from innuendo, that the former manager has been paid out. The only thing you could say about the council's handling of this is that we were too sympathetic in dealing with all the issues that evolved during Mackintosh's time in the job.
> The Council bent over backwards to help Mackintosh. To say council's relationship with staff was poor is just nonsense. The secretary had our utmost respect and we appreciated the lengths she went to to hold things together through some challenging times, way more so for her than the Council. It would be fantastic if everything could be out in the open.
> *On the matter of conflict of interest some of you are so wide of the mark it's sad. Jeff is one hell of a nice guy with a hell of a good brain and a huge asset to anything he gets involved with. He doesn't say much but when he does it's worth listening. He has done more for upland game in HB than all the conspiracy theorists put together. There would hardly be a pheasant to shoot in the Ngaruroro catchment without game preserves. Whether they start early and end late (for the juniors shoot) has zero negative impact on upland game for license holders. Someone really benefitted from all the banded birds released by Jeff this year. I hear a Simon fulla got 40 odd.
> Councillor Bates runs a family shoot at Ngamatea station.* He does not profit from this in fact I would think it costs him plenty. I can't see where his COI is. Game preserves I hope are here to stay. They provide much needed birds for the public to shoot. They provide opportunity for people to gain experience for themselves and their dogs. The quality of dogs and handlers has sky rocketed in HB at least, due to the preserves.  They host juniors introducing young hunters to the excitement of pheasant shooting. There are so many positives for preserves that your glass would have to be 1/4 empty to think otherwise.
> If you think you need to go through private land to catch fish then you haven't got out much. There is heaps of water everywhere in HB with fish the public can access. Do all that water and by then you you'll be so good you won't be coveting so much.
> There is some toxic talk out there but rest assured the council whilst a little naive in dealing with some difficult employment issues more than have their integrity intact. I resigned from Council late last year for personal reasons, but during my time all the councillors acted honourably and in good faith in dealing with the issues presented to us. Maybe it is a time for some change but have a good read of the candidate profiles and read again. Research all the candidates and ask yourselves about integrity. I know who I am not voting for. 
> Jeremy Dearden.


yea the public can hunt them for a price  :Grin: 
funny thing is i didnt see one example of somone citing conflict of interest??
on the whole thread.
ngamatea was owned by the same outfit that owned the station i was on.
wonder where his pheasant seed stock/current stock comes from??
now who else guides/hunts on ngamatea for deer umummumm :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Breda

> ngamatea was owned by the same outfit that owned the station i was on.
> wonder where his pheasant seed stock/current stock comes from??
> now who else guides/hunts on ngamatea for deer umummumm


I'm calling wide there GSPF. I think there is two different things that need identifying there. 

Some (all?) councils run a conflict register that you can identify any "potential" conflicts.You might include beneficial relationships (e.g salesman for goods distributor), occupation (e.g fishing guide), acquaintance (e.g friend of most of the before mentioned) or "other" considerations being a stand holder in a F&G wetland. This to help a good manager manage any potential conflicts of interest in the decision making process where one party or another may benefit from some form of valuable consideration. Basically if you don't want to disclose these things then perhaps public office isn't the place for you? 

Actual conflict of interest in making a decision. For example imagine I sell guns and ammunition and a motion is presented looking to ban magazine extensions. I like selling gun parts and ammunition so my natural inclination is to defeat the motion if possible. This is a conflict and should be discussed and minuted. A council might decide I can present a case to continue using mag extensions but remove my ability to vote on the subject or have me take no part. 

Not talked about but equally or more important is staff conflicts. Imagine hypothetically the CEO has legal friends that are struggling in the global financial slow down so invents a couple legal issue's to spend a substantial but undisclosed amount of license holder money without authorisation or due cause. There is nothing to identify or prevent this. Or perhaps the CEO could own a sporting goods shop and allow industry to lobby for favourable changes that could result in personal benefit. Steel shot the most obvious.

There is problems all over F&G which stem from the top. There is certainly problems with COI but the situation you mentioned isn't one of them in my view.

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## gsp follower

fair enough tim your good at seeing the deeper darker picture.
but things in hb seem bad enough that a ACC counsellor might need to visit :Grin: 



> Some (all?) councils run a conflict register that you can identify any "potential" conflicts.]


funny thing is of all the minutes ive looked at ,i dont believe ive seen one registered yet????

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## gsp follower

have just read the candidates profiles in hb theres a sence of deep division there.
hope this beautiful region can sort its shit for the benefit of licence buyers and the wild fish and game stocks :O O:

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## Breda

> fair enough tim your good at seeing the deeper darker picture.
> but things in hb seem bad enough that a ACC counsellor might need to visit
> 
> 
> funny thing is of all the minutes ive looked at ,i dont believe ive seen one registered yet????


So correct thinking would suggest full probity is on display and no conflicts have occurred. The council office may hold a register of potential conflicts. A COI on a decision made would or should be recorded in the minutes. But who's actually watching anyway???

So a spot test for you GSPF to see if I made my point  :Psmiley: - give a hypothetical situation turning this resolution into an obvious COI.

(For this July 2014 Special Meeting- no conflicts of interest were recorded so we must assume allocating F&G money to investigate a commercial operation has some unseen benefit for the license buyer).

*8.3 Council instructed staff to allocate 6K to the investigation of establishing a large commercial fish out pond. (14/07/8.3) Bates/ Nibblet*

(Goodness knows what is behind such a resolution?)

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## gsp follower

i saw that and thought ''what the f..k'' :O O:  :Grin: 
theres obviously 2 differing views on the councill as to where our future lies ??
one would appear to support planting oppurtunities the other fighting for wild bird retention and enhancement.
but not doing wild counts and banding seems like putting your head in the sand and hopeing the problem either flies away or you  get your solutions and info based on another regions maybe differing circumstances and topography.??.
i wonder for instance do the birds still raft up off blackhead beach or is horeshoe lake out elsthorpe way still a major refuge during the season??land use change woulsd seem obvious even from the differnces i noticed on the places i use to know.fuck me the patangata pubs only open 3 days a week and that in the avo :Oh Noes:  :XD:

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## gsp follower

[QUOTE.3 Council instructed staff to allocate 6K to the investigation of establishing a large* commercial fish out pond*. (14/07/8.3) Bates/ *Nibblet*
(Goodness knows what is behind such a resolution?)
[/QUOTE]

hehe 
i cant see for the life of me how stopping banding and population monitoring adding a commercial fishout pond goes with the stated aims of some of the returning candidates

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## Danny

> What I dislike about all of this is the lack of respect...people are voted on to the council and squander the purpose of being there...this is not a joke, it is not a playway...when you have people paying money for a license you have a moral obligation to see that it is not one for one but one for all...the respected Mr Bill Spooner would be absolutely aghast at how things are these days...he was the most selfless of gentlemen and dedicated his life to the cause...





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Breda

> but not doing wild counts and banding seems like putting your head in the sand and hopeing the problem either flies away or you  get your solutions and info based on another regions maybe differing circumstances and topography.??.


It is unclear if all monitoring has stopped? So their heads might not be in the sand. I'll explain why what you read concerns me anecdotally from available information.

From the same minutes re the fish out pond where no conflicts were registered.

*8.1 Council opted to cease the banding of mallard........ Nibblett/ Duley

8.2 Council INSTRUCTED staff to reallocate funding from mallard banding to........  Nibblet/ Lumsden* 


NO BANDING?- If wild banded birds regularly turned up shot on a property that supplied captive bred birds to shoot it could provide an insight into the attractant potential of these live decoys and any adverse effect on the public access to the public resource. No banding, no problem (will show up). Would you want to provide information that might detract supplying captive bred birds if that is what you do? This is one way to view this resolution. Is there a conflict or a strong perception of one on these grounds? Obviously not going by the minutes.

In any council we are left with only the integrity of those holding public office to maintain the publics confidence in the organisations operations. Robust honest evaluation is required and recorded to maintain the perception of transparency and accountability. My perception is the publics confidence in F&G isn't gaining altitude.

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## gsp follower

its interesting that they cut this that and the other and say they support  the mallard research program also whaT ELSE THE StYMIED IN THOSE QUOTEd lines .
but wouldnt you think you,d still want some sort of idea whats happening and pertinent to your region.
surely its not a case of we dont really want to know how bad it is we would rather anymore bad news came from somewhere/one else is go ie the AW/SOUTHLAND research.
and yes i can see if you go the put and take ducks root you would want embarrassing numbers of wild banded birds in the mix. :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## EeeBees

> [QUOTE.3 Council instructed staff to allocate 6K to the investigation of establishing a large* commercial fish out pond*. (14/07/8.3) Bates/ *Nibblet*
> (Goodness knows what is behind such a resolution?)


hehe 
i cant see for the life of me how stopping banding and population monitoring adding a commercial fishout pond goes with the stated aims of some of the returning candidates[/QUOTE]

Nor I, @gsp follower...

Fish out pond...what????  we have spectacular streams and rivers which attract fisherfolk the world over...meanwhile...there, minuted, is six thousand dollars to be allocated to a feasibility study...for crying out loud...what a wanton waste of licence money...there can be only one outcome to such a resolution...the feathering of a nest or nests...and obviously not a feral mallie's one...

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## gsp follower

[QUOTEFish out pond...what???? we have spectacular streams and rivers *which attract fisherfolk the world over*...meanwhile...there, minuted, is six thousand dollars to be allocated to a feasibility study][/QUOTE]

nail head eebees
methinks the culture in some regions is gearing towards the visitors while we pay the bill :O O: 
the amount of vested interest whether conflict declared or not has ,many shakeing thier heads.
 I SAY AGAIN IM STILL WAITING ON SOME RELY FROM HAWLKES BAY ON THE PROCESS TO DROP THE COUNCIL NUMBERS??
IM STARTING TO GET SUSPICIOUS AND UNEASY SINCE I.VE HAD A REPLY AT NATIONAL LEVEL :Wtfsmilie:

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## kiwijames

Voted today online. I used the broom technique.

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## gsp follower

> But this same day
> Must end that work the ides of March begun;
> And whether we shall meet again I know not.
> Therefore our everlasting farewell take:
> For ever, and for ever, farewell, Cassius!
> If we do meet again, why, we shall smile;
> If not, why, then, this parting was well made.


kind of appropriate i reckon  tho the smiles may be a little forced  in the fruitbowl of the nth island :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## gsp follower

HAWKE'S BAY FISH & GAME COUNCIL
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE COUNCIL HELD
AT THE GAME FARM ON TUESDAY 18th AUGUST 2015 AT 6:00 PM

hallelujah finally  :O O:  i could be a little cynical given theres only a days voting left :Wink: 

[QUOTE] That the administration staff of the Hawke’s Bay Fish and Game Council and* Eastern Fish and Game Council are authorised to negotiate new and maturing term investments and make enquiries regarding all Hawke’s Bay Fish & Game Council bank accounts individually.* (15/08/7.2.4) Boaler/Bates [QUOTE]
waaaaat the f..k for???

[QUOTE]s.* Cr Duley replied that unfortunately, because Council was bound by a confidentiality agreement between both parties*, Council could not publicly state what had happened, but assured all present, that the incoming council would be informed in a public excluded session. Tony Hill inquired what time limit applied to the confidentiality clause, and *was informed it was a permanent agreement without a set time limit.*[QUOTE]

unless your trying to win an election huh boys and girls* :Grin:  big grin

[QUOTE] *Cr Duley expressed Council’s concerns at the allegations made anonymously to the Whale Oil blog site; it appeared these allegations were a personal attack on councillors to discredit them.*[QUOTE]

a personel attack really where have we seen that recently* :Grin:  big grin

[QUOTE]Tuck (F&GNZ), Garrick (Eastern Regional Manager),* Lyons (NZ Council 
Chairman), Ferris (Eastern Councillor), Roderick (Eastern Councillor).* [QUOTE]

to many eastern cooks for my liking no wonder the broths proving hard to swallow* :Sad:  sad
i hope im wrong but that filthy word amalgamation springs to mind.
what do our hawkes bayers think of potentialy hawkes bay eastern region ??
will they have a case theyre doing a lot of the work getting well paid admittedly but is this f&g,s version of a non hostile take over??

----------


## EeeBees

[QUOTE=gsp follower;403763]HAWKE'S BAY FISH & GAME COUNCIL
UNCONFIRMED MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE COUNCIL HELD
AT THE GAME FARM ON TUESDAY 18th AUGUST 2015 AT 6:00 PM

hallelujah finally  :O O:  i could be a little cynical given theres only a days voting left :Wink: 

[QUOTE] That the administration staff of the Hawke’s Bay Fish and Game Council and* Eastern Fish and Game Council are authorised to negotiate new and maturing term investments and make enquiries regarding all Hawke’s Bay Fish & Game Council bank accounts individually.* (15/08/7.2.4) Boaler/Bates [QUOTE]
waaaaat the f..k for???

_so how come eastern have this privilege...??? so amalgamation would make it nice and easy, wouldn't it_

[QUOTE]s.* Cr Duley replied that unfortunately, because Council was bound by a confidentiality agreement between both parties*, Council could not publicly state what had happened, but assured all present, that the incoming council would be informed in a public excluded session. Tony Hill inquired what time limit applied to the confidentiality clause, and *was informed it was a permanent agreement without a set time limit.*


> _until it is contested_
> 
> what do our hawkes bayers think of potentialy hawkes bay eastern region ??
> 
> _it is wrong, it is a travesty...it would be a massive area and if hawkes bay cannot handle the governance, what the blazes are they doing...why does hawkes bay need the assistance of eastern...ludicrous notion to my mind...and from a statement above, eastern might just want the money and if they do, what for??_
> 
> will they have a case theyre doing a lot of the work getting well paid admittedly but is this f&g,s version of a non hostile take over??


_looks like it!!!_

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## EeeBees

[QUOTE=gsp follower;403763]

[QUOTE] That the administration staff of the Hawke’s Bay Fish and Game Council and* Eastern Fish and Game Council are authorised to negotiate new and maturing term investments and make enquiries regarding all Hawke’s Bay Fish & Game Council bank accounts individually.* (15/08/7.2.4) Boaler/Bates 


> waaaaat the f..k for???


So eastern are checking out the financials of what could be their bride...a defacto bride at that...there will be no white wedding...maturing investments of licencee monies...

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## gsp follower

imho the last thing hawkes bay needs is these eastern elitists anywhere near your region.
i dont mean the staff who do great work but i wouldnt cross the street to piss in the ear of anyone who voted in a hen pheasant season or put and take ducks. 
its a  short term localised cop out to not fixing whats wrong with the wild populations and a sop to the tourism industry[guides properties with special interests] and thier attracting travelling birders who need a quick setup kwi bird hunting experience :O O: 
what i hate the most is the impression it will give of us bieng just like everywhere else? after thier dough and the way it will skew thier view of our traditions and duck/upland hunting. :Pissed Off: 

since lyons is the nzc chairman it seems them enforcing the stated nationalpolicy of no duck shooting on ''properties with'' in eastern or anywhere else is not going to happen :Wtfsmilie:  :Pissed Off: 




> o* eastern are checking out the financials of what could be their bride...a defacto bride at that...there will be no white wedding.*..maturing investments of licencee monies.


your pregnent with growing licence sales EeBees so a shotgun wedding might be in the wings given easterns stagnent sales.

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## gsp follower

> 15 Hunting of Waterfowl on Upland Game Properties
> *Lindsay Lyons sought clarification of the NZ Council stance on allowing the owners of
> pheasant preserves (Upland Game properties with special conditions*) to privately hunt ducks
> on their own pheasant preserves during the hunting season, but not during days of any
> organised commercial pheasant hunts.* Mr Lyons explained that he felt this would be a small
> concession to make for these land owners, in recognition of the benefits that accrue to*
> ordinary game bird hunters from the routine escape of preserve upland game to adjoining
> areas where these birds become more available to these hunters.
> *While it was explained that current National Policy on this matter only refers to ‘guidelines’
> ...





> Following a spirited debate with no clear consensus on the issue it was agreed the paper from
> *Eastern Fish and Game Council be received with Councillor Lyons to encourage Eastern to
> deal with the matter within their region as they think fit.*


jesus whats the common denominator here  *Councillor Lyons* given that its doc issueing the permits and f&g has little control except the special condition rules it seems to be giving in rather easily
but telling him to do as they see fit it hardly guidence and enforcing the guidelines nzc??

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## EeeBees

Quote...

_...of the benefits that accrue to ordinary game bird hunters from the routine escape of preserve upland game to adjoining areas where these birds become more available to these hunters..._

we pay $92 for a licence so we can be patronised...????   ordinary game bird hunters...I take extreme umbrage at this...the idyllic notion of years gone by where hunters and gamebird shooters were not bound by elitism, patrony and vagrant hypocrisy...beam me up, Scottie... :Zomg:  :Wtfsmilie:  :Pissed Off:

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## EeeBees

Not a gamebird or waterfowl site, but...

Stop Feeding Waterfowl - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation

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## gsp follower

> Not a gamebird or waterfowl site, but...
> 
> Stop Feeding Waterfowl - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation


yep chch is finding out how quickly canadas can colonise safe wet areas when left alone.

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## gsp follower

> Mr Lyons explained that he felt this would be a small
> concession to make for these land owners, in recognition of the benefits that accrue to
> ordinary game bird hunters* from the routine escape of preserve upland game to adjoining
> areas where these birds become more available to these hunters*.


bollocks so preserves/properties dont have roading in work for the keepers??
mr lyons wheres a dentist when you need one :Grin:  :Grin: 
im joking ofcourse :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:  :Grin: : :Grin:

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## EeeBees

:Grin:  :Grin:  who needs a dentist if you have no bite....

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## gsp follower

he who has hold of the purse strings controls what passes the gums :O O:  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## kotuku

> he who has hold of the purse strings controls what passes the gums


 like he who drinks the dark ale sees strange visions???????? :Beer:  :36 1 5:  :15 8 212:  :Yarr:

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## gsp follower

> like he who drinks the dark ale sees strange visions????????


know what you mean i was stone sober tho and saw a feckin cucumber on my lounge floor :Wink:

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## gsp follower

come on the bay new leaf turning time and independence from the eastern aggressor councill :Wink:

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## HB Hunting

Don't worry about HB there is a small but determined group of concerned people who will not let this councils actions go without a spirited fight, and will not stand by idle and be aligned with the intensions of another regions agenda. one has to question also why would a council vote on an item in general business when it happened that no public were at that meeting, some could ask was this the perfect time to try and slip it through unnoticed and un challenged

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## gsp follower

> Don't worry about HB there is a small but determined group of concerned people who will not let this councils actions go without a spirited fight, and will not stand by idle and be aligned with the intensions of another regions agenda.* one has to question also why would a council vote on an item in general business when it happened that no public were at that meeting*, some could ask was this the perfect time to try and slip it through unnoticed and un challenged


which bits that hb hunter??
i love the bay i spent the best 3 years of my life there and after my uncle it was my best duck hunting teacher.
i dont remember ever shootng a less than full colour drake there.
beautiful fat mallards even given the bays penchent for drouts.no feeding and 2 shots didnt seem to keep us from a feed.
your in the final to so that last minute decision seemed harsh on the b.o.p :Grin: 



> Tony H
> Donor Member
> *****
> Offline
> 
> 
> Browning, knocks em dead
> 
> Posts: 795
> ...


damn what i wouldnt give to be a fly on that wall. :Wink:

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## gsp follower

> I have been informed that the media may be in attendance, See you there


i wouldnt expect much out of tv1 and unfortunatly since the gutted cambell less out of tv3 :Oh Noes: 
but any exposure will help it will set chairs squirming in hq just dont let them use it as a excuse/oppurtunity to steal away your heritage/future

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## gsp follower

free at last free at last  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 
well not quite but at least a result seems iminent for licence buyers in hb.
just the circling vultures from eastern councill to drive off now.
shiek ya money and his hen pheasant take and tame mallards can kiss my sisters black cats arse.

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## Breda

> free at last free at last 
> well not quite but at least a result seems iminent for licence buyers in hb.
> just the circling vultures from eastern councill to drive off now.
> shiek ya money and his hen pheasant take and tame mallards can kiss my sisters black cats arse.


Yeah something like that- In the social media battle between  :36 17 4:  and  :15 8 212:  it wasn't a contest, was never going to be.

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## gsp follower

they must have just about creamed thier collective jeans when they realised the candidate meeting was at the local h&f store.
the note of ''oh hell no '' in one statement about it must have taken some real  laugh suppressing hand supporting to tap in to the puter.
can you imagine it as the public strode in past the smiling faces ''proudly sponsored by h&f''
jesus it must have been almost shakespearein in its  comedy.

----------


## EeeBees

Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look...et tu, Brutus!!!

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## gsp follower

> Yon Cassius has a lean and hungry look...et tu, Brutus!!!


even clothed in camo sponsored by.... and knives courtesy of.... :Grin:

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## Breda

> even clothed in camo sponsored by.... and knives courtesy of....


 :Thumbsup:  I didn't mean for that to come across as derogatory. There is a bunch of people, a fair chunck from HB that are wondering "WTF just happened". The regimented lot had a landslide. I shall here forth refer to the leader as Daljit in reference to Daljit Singh, community leader and man of very good self intent.

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## gsp follower

> I didn't mean for that to come across as derogatory. There is a bunch of people, a fair chunck from HB that are wondering "WTF just happened". The regimented lot had a landslide. I shall here forth refer to the leader as Daljit in reference to Daljit Singh, community leader and man of very good self intent.


yes i encourage hbayers from both sides of the fence to post up thier views especialy if they attended the MEETING, hell even those on the fence.
im gob smacked that mike h cant see after the bitch slapping southland got for not consulting how unfair that now  seems to have nzc with  this ''feck it do as you like attitude'' ??




> Grow partnerships with strategic allies & others eg Nature Conservancy,* guides & their clients*
> ]


how about with the overwhelmingly bigger group of home grown licence holders 1st :O O: or are we not worth it in dollar terms.
ps i can find no reference to bryce stating he thought 8 is a good number for a council  or any reference to reducing council numbers its not in any posistion statements or minutes??

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## gsp follower

> Adrian McIntyre suggested it be read out to the meeting what the NZ Council
> recommendation on the issue was at the last NZ Council meeting.
> The recommendation was read out:
> 1) Ask regional managers to use the 2013 game hunter surveys to establish whether there had
> been any significant changes in sub gauge shotgun use since 2009.
> SFGC Minutes of the meeting held 13th December 2012.
> 5
> 2) Meanwhile retain the sub gauge exemption in the use of lead shot.
> 3) Convey its concerns to Southland should it propose to go-it-alone and lift the exemption.





> *He believed some elements within Southland Fish & Game had chosen to run their
> own agenda on the issue without reference to those they represent. He said it was a
> non-mandated agenda and in cloak and dagger fashion. Back in 2005 Southland
> attempted to change this regulation – who did you inform, what opportunity did
> licence holders have to imput into that, what was the mandate? Should have been an
> election issue*.


sound familliar

before you try to rewrite history again mike



> Lead shot exemption for sub-gauges – regional feedback
> With no clear majority of support for or against and incomplete information to argue in its
> favour, it was agreed it makes any change to the status quo questionable. The NZ Council
> accepted that 6 regions opposed the Southland proposal to uplift the lead shot exemptions and
> that 5 regions supported the proposal.
> Resolved (Andrew Morris/Robin Blackmore)
> That the NZ Council
> New Zealand Council November 2012 Meeting Page 12
> 1. Ask regional managers to use the 2013 game hunter surveys to establish
> ...

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## Breda

> i can find no reference to bryce stating he thought 8 is a good number for a council  or any reference to reducing council numbers its not in any posistion statements or minutes??


From what you reference there is so much bullshit talked (effective shit talk though) it laughable. Honestly people are so gullible. If they just bothered to fact check.....  

What most people miss is that obviously HB hunters and anglers had a gut full of how F&G was running and people stepped up genuinely and honestly and due to (_______) from the previous council this is how F&G repaid them. I am heartily disappointed but not in anyway surprised. Smile when you buy your next license- they will be.

Time to let the issue drift into history.

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## gsp follower

> Time to let the issue drift into history.


untill the next time a group encouraged by the inability to do anything concrete about this rears thier heads. :Grin:  :XD: 

good luck hb your gonna need it. :O O:

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## EeeBees

What is so disappointing is that when you act as some have, your credibility suffers more than your ego might admit to...confidence and respect can be eroded with a single scrawl of a pen, or a lack of the scrawl of a pen...

Mrs Wells first introduced from England a  pheasant cock and three hens in 1842...173 years ago.   The mallard was first imported by the Otago Acclimatisation Society in 1867 which imported a pair from Melbourne...148 years ago...I wonder if F&G will help us all celebrate the 150th anniversary of the introduction of this wonderful duck...what a great opportunity to restore some goodwill and real tangible responsibility and accountability...if F&G does not do anything on this auspicious anniversary, I will...

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## gsp follower

i note thier maybe a reason/hope for some of the shenanigins?
 in that nz  council are in discussion with doc to turn the permitting of mallard hold breed and release over to them.??
thier is mention of irregularities in the process so far but no mention of what those have been.??

could be a right little cash cow if even half the  f&g,s take up captive breeding as a short term fix.??

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## Breda

> i note thier maybe a reason/hope for some of the shenanigins?
>  in that nz  council are in discussion with doc to turn the permitting of mallard hold breed and release over to them.??
> thier is mention of irregularities in the process so far but no mention of what those have been.??
> 
> could be a right little cash cow if even half the  f&g,s take up captive breeding as a short term fix.??


This would be a bit of you wouldn't it? Hope I haven't put this up before. "wild" duck "hunting" North Island?  :Grin: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KYIX5Yh4cY

Watch right to the end to get a true appreciation of the skill required.

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## gsp follower

> This would be a bit of you wouldn't it? Hope I haven't put this up before. "wild" duck "hunting" North Island? 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KYIX5Yh4cY
> 
> Watch right to the end to get a true appreciation of the skill required.


fuck me the only think missing was a rake :O O: what a travesty from the mesh lined trees to the half arse hides.
 made worse only by the hope they might convince somone that wild mallards would land on 2 swimming dogs or let you boat thru them in duck season.
i got a funny feeling if f&g get the permitting job which they should for commonsence sake alone :Wink:  but along with those wasted, return to the past rules of the knee jerk kind, smaller bags and seasons[unresearched ofcourse] 3 shots and feeding restrictions we,l get some regions go the short term fix route of releasing mallards.
i predict AW may not GIVEN THEY,VE SAID Its a short term localised fix ie perfect for properties with special conditions and the preserve team AW may be weakened.
eastern either it would rather piss on the preserve advantage seeds they,ve sown.
but it could explain hb f&g getting support for behavior other regions got bent over for

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## Breda

> fuck me the only think missing was a rakewhat a travesty from the mesh lined trees to the half arse hides.


Man you are such a pessimist! There was some effective shooting and killing tame birds has to be way more for filling than breaking clays.

If it doesn't affect wild populations then I have no problem. But lets get some monitoring and an honest discussion happening.

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## gsp follower

> But lets get some monitoring and an honest discussion happening.


true tim but   independent  unbiased monitoring based on whats good for the resourse not the commercial interests.

i personaly think if you,ve got 2 to 300 tameish fed trained live decoys on a property its gonna draw every duck for miles like a refuge?? especially if theyre waiting for the right price and optimum day and not shooting as reguly as normal hunters.
can releases work ? localised and with effective predetor control maybe short term but do they reflect good value or anything other than us trying to gloss over a more widespread deeper problem.?? we wait the mallard research with baited breath personaly i lean toward degaded waterways especially the lakes that held hundreds if not thousands and desease outbreaks and even algaeblooms as factors along with predation.
no i dont blame it all on dairying either have a look at the lower avon apparently now a cess pit of pollution and dead birds. :XD:

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## EeeBees

> independent unbiased monitoring based on whats good for the resourse not the commercial interests.
> do they reflect good value or anything other than us trying to gloss over a more widespread deeper problem.??


Commercial interests do not need to welcome any independant unbiased monitoring...commercial interests already know the answer...$$$$x$$$$ = $$$$...

Meanwhile the HB F&G had such confidence as to not heed the statutory obligation to band birds...Oh no...their minds were on bigger and better things...$$$$x$$$$ = $$$$$

However, it still does not alter the fact *THAT NO CONSULTATION WAS MADE WITH THE LICENCE HOLDERS IN ANY OF THESE SUGGESTED, MURMURED OR CONTRIVED MATTERS...NOT A ONE...*


PS...please correct me if I am wrong on this...

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## gsp follower

right sorry ive been out of action computer wise but i havent forgotten the neferious bullshit that went on.
ask yourself would the measly few months given for voters to adjust to 8 members for the hb  council have flown in any other election.
i urge all voters who are unhappy to go check your local rolls while you still can and make sure its the full role .strangly enough only a month after the election the returning officer claims not to have them or any access to them.  theres some strange numbers and results in several regions that dont make sence given usual voter numbers?? adding to my paranoia is the fact you have to make an appointment to view them and be chaperoned ????ever had that last time you were down the p/o checking your voting eligability :Grin: 
methinks the guides and commercial interests have got their hooks into a couple or 3 regions and theyre gonna be fuckin hard to shift after all they,d prefere to pay one ouftfit [doc] and not have to deal with f&g as well..theyre rooting f&g from the insideto get things there way just check the makeup /interests of some of the  councils.eastern hb as 2 examples.

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## EeeBees

I am glad your computer issues have been sorted...

we have to be chaperoned to view the rolls??...sounds like something out of one of George Orwell's novels...

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## EeeBees

> Man you are such a pessimist! There was some effective shooting and killing tame birds has to be way more for filling than breaking clays.
> 
> If it doesn't affect wild populations then I have no problem. But lets get some monitoring and an honest discussion happening.


Yes, lets...ahem...

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## gsp follower

> Man you are such a pessimist! There was some effective shooting and killing tame BIRDS has to be way more for filling than breaking clays.
> 
> If it doesn't affect wild populations then I have no problem. But lets get some MONITORING and an honest discussion happening.


only if your the kind of gun owner/shooter who thinks poking your weapon of choice thru a 8ft fence after chasing the unrestricted game from one side of the fenced paddock to the other is fulfilling. :Wtfsmilie: 

honest discussion went out with gentlemen jack marshall and norm kirk but the only way we,l get anywhere is to keep the bastards jumping.
[B]we have to be chaperoned to view the rolls??...sounds like something out of one of George Orwell's novels..[B]

i know Eeebees i bloody near laughed till i cried with the pathetic absurdity of it but it do make you wonder whats to hide
''we have to protect firearms owners  ''they might say?.
 nah by the time you figured out who was a fisho and who a gunno you,d probably be in the queenie elizabeth hotel for the aged and bewildered  anyway.
[U][B]What is so disappointing is that when you act as some have, your credibility suffers more than your ego might admit to...confidence and respect can be eroded with a single scrawl of a pen, or a lack of the scrawl of a pen...[B][U]
but a healthy bank balance lasts till you croak Eebees and im sure the admiration and socophancy of those you think are your friends make up for the losses. NOT

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## Breda

> Yes, lets...ahem...


Omnipotence doesn't require it- nor a legitimate election for that matter.

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## gsp follower

> Omnipotence doesn't require it- nor a legitimate election for that matter.


i would say tim frank discussion and questioning is the very enemy of omnipotence ask stalin hitler or saddam even.
its why so many tyrants spent most of thier energys on suppressing any opposition or even questioning of thier rule.not to mention paranoicaly hiding any crushing truths.
problem is if the truth is if things are as suspected is the alternative of government commisioners palatable??
i know the arguement ''that could things get any worse '' well yes with  government interference they bloody well could.
imagine maggie barry in charge of our future??
 where as the rot in f&g could be excorsized by the exposure and vilification of the elements seeking thier own fifedoms.
the idea is to sink f&g from within but make it look like it was others fault,
doc ex,es seem to be gaining posistions on councils when most havent got a clue who they are and vice versa ex f&g,ers are turning up on doc staff.
who does a one stop shop with government controlled funding access to our licence fee,s and political appointeees suit ??
not fuckin us i can assure you of that.
but a permit system for guides and a different cheaper [maybe]licence system out of the one outfit with no pesky public intererence or agendas that might restrict a goverments plans for larger privatisation of our natural resourses or agricultural expansion.
sounds like capitalist heaven to me.

----------


## Tahr

> i would say tim frank discussion and questioning is the very enemy of omnipotence ask stalin hitler or saddam even.
> its why so many tyrants spent most of thier energys on suppressing any opposition or even questioning of thier rule.not to mention paranoicaly hiding any crushing truths.
> problem is if the truth is if things are as suspected is the alternative of government commisioners palatable??
> i know the arguement ''that could things get any worse '' well yes with  government interference they bloody well could.
> imagine maggie barry in charge of our future??
>  where as the rot in f&g could be excorsized by the exposure and vilification of the elements seeking thier own fifedoms.
> the idea is to sink f&g from within but make it look like it was others fault,
> doc ex,es seem to be gaining posistions on councils when most havent got a clue who they are and vice versa ex f&g,ers are turning up on doc staff.
> who does a one stop shop with government controlled funding access to our licence fee,s and political appointeees suit ??
> ...


GSP follower...I really do want to understand what this is all about and what your grievance with F&G _actually_ is. Its all been really difficult to follow, not being an insider and all.
The above post of yours reads like a ramble of conspiracy theory that makes no sense to me.

Could you possibly spell out exactly what your specific concerns are so that I can begin to understand?

I have no other interest beyond wanting to understand what the hell all of this is about. I'm not a Government agent, or anything like that.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Breda

> i would say tim frank discussion and questioning is the very enemy of omnipotence ask stalin hitler or saddam even.


Yes it is




> problem is if the truth is if things are as suspected is the alternative of government commisioners palatable??
> i know the arguement ''that could things get any worse '' 
> 
> who does a one stop shop with government controlled funding access to our licence fee,s and political appointeees suit ??
> not fuckin us i can assure you of that.


Yeah I'm not so sure. A commission would be bound by legislation and policy or at least be held closer to it. Lets not forget the legislative framework is in place to manage sports fish and game in the recreational interest of license buyers- F&G choose to ignore what it wants and ignores by enlarge legitimate enquiry, partially through the leadership of a meglamaniac but largely because "leverage" has become a large operating influence.

With a commission in place improper activity could be held to account without the fear being held that it would be detrimental to our interests by loosing "elected councils"( :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: ). Conflicted decision making more obvious. Reality is our interests or more precisely our heritage and legacy aren't being well managed.

I could care either way. I just wish I could avoid funding what its become.

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## gsp follower

> Yes it is
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm not so sure. A commission would be bound by legislation and policy or at least be held closer to it. Lets not forget the legislative framework is in place to manage sports fish and game in the recreational interest of license buyers- F&G choose to ignore what it wants and ignores by enlarge legitimate enquiry, partially through the leadership of a meglamaniac but largely because "leverage" has become a large operating influence.
> 
> With a commission in place improper activity could be held to account without the fear being held that it would be detrimental to our interests by loosing "elected councils"(). Conflicted decision making more obvious. Reality is our interests or more precisely our heritage and legacy aren't being well managed.
> 
> I could care either way. I just wish I could avoid  funding what its become.


yep but like ecan once a comissioners in and political appointees seated they can be fuckin hard to expel
even with the industrial strength laxitive of a government change .
*GSP follower...I really do want to understand what this is all about and what YOUR grievance with F&G actually is.* 

the pre eminence of tourism operatorsand vested interest creeping in by hook or crook in some f&g regions at the expence of the average licence buyer and what i believe is tantamount to hijackng the democratic process :ORLY: clear enough for you tahr

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## gsp follower

hows this for a laugh the reason given for not revealing the details of the private deal for the former hb manager in the november hb minutes was ''not to hurt his future employment prospects''[.
but getting former councillors shit slinging on a public forum and all but doing the same with the legal insinuations by current councillors   to try and queer his election chances doesnt count ??
hb says now they might canvas voters on a new election??hope the dont overload the aw and eastern computer networks :Grin: 
bout fuckin time the canvassed them on something ? dropping to 8 nah large payout to former manager nah private company  fishout ponds  nah
the only reason they are is they know voters wont want to cough up the 17 grand :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:  but given the admission the cocked, up the legal bills on consulting whether what some were writing on public forum was ok  and the cost of buying the former managers silence.i bet 17 gs looks like a flyspeck on a elephants arse.
is it true that the council is effectivly 7 again cos the former managers taken his dough and been told dont come monday??
where has bryce jonson every written or said 8,s a good number for a council other than than a dubious email sent sometime to someone??
how many of the new council are guides or have working relationships with guides or properties with special conditions or gamebird sellers.

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## gsp follower

something is not right in the state of hawkesbay 
minutes were claimed to be incorrect at certain meetings yet they were signed off on as true and correct.
conflicting stories everywhere from the top the bottom and even election officials[what the f..k]
i challenge bryce johnson to come out publicly and say why smaller councills are good and give his reasoning if he has .
ever advocated it.
i dont believe the abuse of process ,voters trust  and backroom payoffs   bad enough is what really trying to be kept from the light of day.




> Further, Standing Orders section 2.22.1 Decisions to be determined by majority of votes states “The acts of a council must be done and the questions before the Council must be decided by vote and by the majority of members that are present and voting.”
> 
> The question of what voting constitutes can be inferred from Standing Orders 2.23.3 which talks about vote by voices or show of hands in relation to a motion, or electronic voting where that’s an option.”


shame your recording of the vote wasnt as onto it as your new found knowledge :O O:  of procedures.

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## Breda

> something is not right in the state of hawkesbay


I knew it! You're a god damn genius  :Grin:  If I haven't said it before- nothing gets solved by chatting on internet forums. From a public discussion point of view this is a dead story.

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## gsp follower

> *I knew it! You're a god damn geniu*s  If I haven't said it before- nothing gets solved by chatting on internet forums.* From a public discussion point of view this is a dead story*.


 :O O: nice of you to notice tho i realise its no news flash but ultimatly its a problem hb,ers have to sort or eastern and seemingly at national level they will lose thier independence. tho judging by the minutes giving eastern access to your licence money thats already on the cards.
sad but true
but only if we let it be. 
 christ if f&g spent as much energy on improving voter partcipation as they have on ,lawyers,covering up and spinning this debacle maybe the disechanted licence buyers of the bay would get the councill they need rather than the one lack of interest and apathy permits.

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## Breda

Yip there is some issue's. I have it on reasonable authority one of the Lehman Brothers Directors wants to audit Freddie Mac which would be useful. Nothing to see here  :Thumbsup:

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## gsp follower

perhaps one of our members on the council could enlighten us on this matter from the july nz council meeting
[QUOTE16 Resolution to Exclude the Public
Section 48, Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act 1987.
Time: 1.15 pm Friday.
Resolved (Colin Sherrard/Andrew Morris)
That the public (including staff) be excluded from the following parts of the proceedings
of this meeting, to discuss:
a. Executive Committee report
b. Council performance self-appraisal
*c. Allegations raised about a regional fish and game council*
d. Staff expenses
][/QUOTE]

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## gsp follower

[QUOTE]b.* Council performance self-appraisal[*/QUOTE]
f...k me dead where do i begin :Grin:  :XD:  :Oh Noes:  :O O: 

is that like asking yourself for a payrise and you holding out just long enough think of the word yes.



> c. Allegations raised about a regional fish and game council


hb odds on favourite and form on the course 
eastern 2 t0 1 always finishes close up to hb
wellington 14 to 1 nothing useful ever comes out of wellington
southland 5 to 1 shorter if it concerns erroneous behavior with punter information :Grin:

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## gsp follower

why would the returning officer tell me the countrywide election rolls are at f&g head office but when i get to welly no such luck??
if i were a suspicious man id be ..........

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## Breda

> why would the returning officer tell me the countrywide election rolls are at f&g head office but when i get to welly no such luck??
> if i were a suspicious man id be ..........


The returning officer I suspect has been told forthright to refer all enquires back to NZF&G. I was told not long after the election by the returning officer that they were not contracted to provide post election evaluation. The election regs say the rolls are held at the office of the region concerned which with any amount of competence the returning officer would have told you. NZF&G have a statutory obligation to oversee the election process and if there are any concerns about the elections that is where the buck stops. 

Did you outline your concerns to NZF&G?

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## gsp follower

> The returning officer I suspect has been told forthright to refer all enquires back to NZF&G. I was told not long after the election by the returning officer that they were not contracted to provide post election evaluation. The election regs say the rolls are held at the office of the region concerned which with any amount of competence the returning officer would have told you. NZF&G have a statutory obligation to oversee the election process and if there are any concerns about the elections that is where the buck stops. 
> 
> Did you outline your concerns to NZF&G?


yes and was told the returning officer would be put right but still??
didnt want to say to much as forewarned is forearmed. :Grin:

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## Breda

> yes and was told the returning officer would be put right but still??
> didnt want to say to much as forewarned is forearmed.


Warrick Lammp is a bit "Shadey" (see what I did there) and already knows the rules. He was wasting your time as you can see by his quote. 

 "Under the Fish and Game Council Elections Regulations 1990, only the Returning Officer is entitled to have access to the licence holder database for election purposes. * In so doing, I will make available a hard copy of the electoral roll at each F&G regional office where an election is being held.*

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## gsp follower

so then he would have SCRUTANISED  the roll of every electorate[ or his co would have] and would know who,s registered to vote where??

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## Breda

> so then he would have SCRUTANISED  the roll of every electorate[ or his co would have] and would know who,s registered to vote where??


Essentially yes, but the contracted returning officer is not the returning officer for all regional elections necessarily. Sometimes it's the regions manager. Collation of information would fall to NZF&G as part of it's responsibility under the Conservation Act in my mind, but they place responsibility on the contractor......

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## gsp follower

*c. Allegations raised about a regional fish and game council*

hb odds on favourite and form on the course 
eastern 2 t0 1 always finishes close up to hb
wellington 14 to 1 nothing useful ever comes out of wellington
southland 5 to 1 shorter if it concerns erroneous behavior with punter information :Grin: [/QUOTE]

and the winner is



> *The allegations highlighted below referred to actions of the Hawke’s Bay Fish and Game Council and its previous manager*.


ps regions not having a vote dont need to supply a role for the returning officer.

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