# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  Switch barrel : any experience ?

## ebf

Anyone here done a switch barrel rife ?

Specifically interested in comments around recoil lug pinning vs lug alignment tool

Also internal vs external action wrench setups.

At the moment my thoughts are leaning to the following:

Happy to remove the action & barrel from the bedded stock, but still keen on internal / rear entry wrench so that I can leave the bases on the action.

Same bolt face for both calibers, slim barrel for general hunting, heavy profile for varmint.

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## kiwijames

> Anyone here done a switch barrel rife ?
> 
> Specifically interested in comments around recoil lug pinning vs lug alignment tool
> 
> Also internal vs external action wrench setups.
> 
> At the moment my thoughts are leaning to the following:
> 
> Happy to remove the action & barrel from the bedded stock, but still keen on internal / rear entry wrench so that I can leave the bases on the action.
> ...


What a mammoth fuck around that sounds like

Solution

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## ebf

Yeah well James, I am missing the 6k for the blouser, and have a lefty action and both barrels already so looking to make the most of what I have...  :Psmiley:

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## Toby

Mauser have a switch barrel rifle

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## Shamus

A Blaser wouldn't be my ideal solution either. I have seen a remington actioned switch barrel where the barrel knox had some flats milled on it and the owner had a custom made barrel wench to suit and an action wrench.

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## PerazziSC3

many people use the barnard as a switch barrel platform i think?

Using the aluminium bedding block means no recoil lug worries

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## kiwijames

> Yeah well James, I am missing the 6k for the blouser, and have a lefty action and both barrels already so looking to make the most of what I have...


Buy a second hand Blaser for less than half that. Sell the action and send the tubes to Abe. Solved

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## veitnamcam

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...ead.php?t=6202 

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## ebf

Barrel clamp is just a hole drilled in some steel and a slot cut with hacksaw, you don't need anything more than that. That is what we used to change the barrel on my Omark.

Internal action wrench can be dead simple as well.

Machine the barrel correctly, and you just tighten it to a known torque spec...

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## Woody

I own a Schultz and Larsen 308 Classic dl  (which is a switch barrel rifle). I have a 21inch standard profile barrel and a jaktmatch fluted sporting /hunting barrel at 25 inches. Shoots very well and the original rifle less than 3 g. I saw one in 6.5*55 in Outdoorsman Rotorua the other day for about $2700. Extra barrels about $1500 last time I asked James Pain. I think Sauer also offer a switch barrel option.

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## NZShoota

I've got a Rem700 in .308 and 7SAUM. Sits in an AICS stock. Recoil lug pinned as wanted to be able to change barrels without removing stock. I use an rear entry action wrench as the side entry interfered with the scope. Torque to the same each time and things "shouldn't" be an issue. I use a modified .308 AI 5 round mag theat feeds both cartridges and a PT&G Bolt for the 7SAUM. Just have to load test the 7SAUM.

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## Blaser

> I own a Schultz and Larsen 308 Classic dl  (which is a switch barrel rifle). I have a 21inch standard profile barrel and a jaktmatch fluted sporting /hunting barrel at 25 inches. Shoots very well and the original rifle less than 3 g. I saw one in 6.5*55 in Outdoorsman Rotorua the other day for about $2700. Extra barrels about $1500 last time I asked James Pain. I think Sauer also offer a switch barrel option.


Nice looking rifle. What do you do to run calibers with different head sizes?

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## DAC

Cheapest solition ( and reliable) is Roessler titan , half prices compared with Blaser . Your action and barrels...no guarantee will work .

Trimis de pe al meu GT-I9100 folosind Tapatalk

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## ebf

Guys, not interested in buying a whole new rifle, I have an action and two barrels already... Just keen to hear what the options are for putting it together.
 @NZShoota, thanks, that sounds like what I am after. Single or double pin ? Could you post pic of your rear wrench pls. My action in Remmy 788, so not looking at a lug based wrench. Just round bar, with a slot milled in it, then pop a "key" into the roundbar through the action port.

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## dfmaisey

> Guys, not interested in buying a whole new rifle, I have an action and two barrels already... Just keen to hear what the options are for putting it together.
>  @NZShoota, thanks, that sounds like what I am after. Single or double pin ? Could you post pic of your rear wrench pls. My action in Remmy 788, so not looking at a lug based wrench. Just round bar, with a slot milled in it, then pop a "key" into the roundbar through the action port.


My 2c worth.... I have had guys ask numerous times over the years about building a switch barrel rifle, usually as a way of saving some $$. Sounds good in theory but in practice there are several problems. Trying to get the barrel/receiver fit to be as tight and consistent as possible while being still being relatively easy to remove, is an engineering challenge that has been a problem for custom gunsmiths for over 100 years. Conventional threads always wear over time, and play develops. Unless you need the rifle to be quick take-down for compact transporting reasons, then the whole concept is a waste of time and effort.
In most European cases the prime reason for switch barrel rifles is where there is a legal restriction on how many rifles you may own (I.e. - only 1 centre fire hunting rifle.)

Drawbacks are: having to re-zero your scope every time you change barrels - this means trip to the range and more ammo every time you change barrel/scope. You can't use both rifles/barrels at the same time (I.e. Taking a visiting mate for a hunt). Cost: usually ends up working out to the same cost as having 2 or 3 separate rifles anyway - so why not have 2 separate rifles set-up that you don't need to tear down, and will have a better chance of shooting well.

If you have the $$ and really need a take down rifle, then the Blaser system with the bolt lock-up directly into the barrel and scope mount directly on the barrel shank, would tend to make them the better modern choice for a take-down/switch-barrel rifle.

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## ebf

Thanks Dean.

Entire project budget is less than $500.

Got second barrel for $100 from a mate
Around $250 for re-thread, chamber and crown
Maybe $50 for materials to make up barrel vice and action wrench.

Believe me, it took me long enough to find a lefty action/rifle, i keep a close watch on TM, most are well over $750.

I hear what you say about re-zero, not a major issue for me, 10 minutes to local range, and I have flexible work setup, so not a hassle to pop down.

Would you recommend pinned or alignment block for the lug ?

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## dfmaisey

> Thanks Dean.
> 
> Entire project budget is less than $500.
> 
> Got second barrel for $100 from a mate
> Around $250 for re-thread, chamber and crown
> Maybe $50 for materials to make up barrel vice and action wrench.
> 
> Believe me, it took me long enough to find a lefty action/rifle, i keep a close watch on TM, most are well over $750.
> ...


Rem 788 LH action and only $500 to spend - wow, that's a big ask!

Unfortunately it's not a lefty's world, and with less options it means you just have to pay what ever is required if you want quality. Rem788 is pretty much the bottom tier of action you could get. Even a LH Savage would probably be better - as it least you can still get parts for those.

For a switch barrel rifle it would be most ideal to first select an action with an integral recoil lug (i.e. Howa, Sako, Win70, etc.) and avoid any of the 'sandwich/washer recoil lug set-ups, as this only creates a major potential issue. Even with a 'pin' installed the lug it can still squew off alignment a bit, which could then affect the bedding, shoulder seat, etc.

Professionally, this sort of job i would give a very wide berth. But for a home project, if you could first find a way to make the recoil lug integral to the action (so that it will never move) then you will have overcome one hurdle. Still i shudder at the thought of a Rem788 action though, especially for a project such as this. But if you're on a budget........

D.

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## Woody

> Nice looking rifle. What do you do to run calibers with different head sizes?


I use 308 in both barrels; however the same bolt will accept about a dozen different cartridges of similar base diameter. S&L offer various magazine stops to accommodate varying cartridge lengths and also an alternative bolt to accommodate a range of magnum calibres. One might question the advantage OF HAVING A SWITCH BARREL INSTEAD OF TWO SEPERATE RIFLES, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THE EXTRA BARREL AND PERHAPS MAG AND BOLT costs less than a whole extra rifle and scope. The Schultz and Larsen are not a lightweight rifle, mine weighs over 8 lbs, but very well made and finished. The barrels are machined such that the 3 lug bolt head locks inside the barrel when the rifle is loaded so headspace is consistent. Mine will shoot 1/2 moa groups with handloads from either barrel so it is at least as accurate as my Sako 85 but in my opinion the S&L is a better finished rifle. S&L have a web site and I seem to recall a page on there which describes the barrel, calibre, magazine and bolt options. For instance, if I were to purchase a magnum bolt and magazine AND A 7MM MAGNUM BARREL, I COULD FIT THESE TO MY EXISTING RECIEVER AND STOCK IN ABOUT 5 MINUTES. (sOrry about the capitals, I keep hitting the caps lock by mistake) There are also several higher grades of rifles and stocks, as with other brands, available. I can only speak from my own experience, but I am very happy with mine.

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## Barefoot

The Switch Barrel

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## ChrisF

Basically , what Dean said , EXCEPT , I would not reccommend blaser , the concept is flawed , and is of use ONLY when restricted to a 1-2 rifles , due to local laws .
I like the idea , but in practice its not is good as it is in theory .
If you still wanted to , I would say , Sauer , the old blaser84 , Mauser 66 , or something like the Dakota , or IF for heavier varmints , then any of the new AIs or Sako TRG M10 , or DT SRS .

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## Wildman

> Basically , what Dean said , EXCEPT , I would not reccommend blaser , the concept is flawed , and is of use ONLY when restricted to a 1-2 rifles , due to local laws .
> I like the idea , but in practice its not is good as it is in theory .
> If you still wanted to , I would say , Sauer , the old blaser84 , Mauser 66 , or something like the Dakota , or IF for heavier varmints , then any of the new AIs or Sako TRG M10 , or DT SRS .


Why do you say that about the Blasers?

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## ebf

Oh crap, there goes the thread, another pro and anti blaser fest  :Oh Noes:

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## ChrisF

Because I donot like them .

After talking to a couple of smiths with alot of experience , UK & Germany , they said they have good barrels & usually shoot accurately , but most other parts are cheap .
the German smith said , a large police unit guarding airports in Germany , brought a number of their tac rifles , and returned them 3 times as they would not constantly hold a zero over time , in the end went with something else , this was using the blaser saddle mounts.
If you ever see photos of what the european & german police use , its actually rare to see the Blaser tac rifles in use , what you do see is lots of HK PSG-1 , PSG-1As , DSR-1s , PGMs , Sako TRGs , BT APRs , Sauer SSG3000 , Steyr SSGs , Steyr SSG04s , Steyr CISMs , and a assortment of AIs .

They have had a number of cases of the bolt unlocking during firing , usually due to gases from a blown primer running down the firing pin hole and melting a thrust washer camming the finger splines closed , and when that happens its very messy , do a search and you will find photos of guys that have had the bolt driven into their face .
It has not happened much , I think about 4-5 times , BUT it has happened , and ME I am NOT very luckly , actually I have no luck at all .
The idea of a switch barrel rig saving you money , again in theory , and not really in practice .
The point is how they fail , other actions have blow ups , BUT in virtually every case the bolt and action have held, and not seperated , when a blaser fails it lets the bolt go .
I look at blaser being the Fosters ( beer ) of rifles , bloody good marketing hype & advertising  , but a crap product , JUST like Aussie Fosters beer .
Even our own Swazi man had some drama's with blasers , Opps . barrel blew , he was lucky , its normally the bolt .
So I chose other rifles , actually , almost any other rifles .


Later Chris

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## Spudattack

All for $500 bucks!😜

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## gimp

whoops

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## gimp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Aq...bUakUotekAyxew

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## Wildman

> Oh crap, there goes the thread, another pro and anti blaser fest


Not at all, was just interested in a different point of view, thanks @ChrisF

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## ebf

Sweet,a usable sako barrel  :Thumbsup:  I'll pay for postage gimp  :Grin:

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## gimp

Think Leupold would honour the warranty on the scope?

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## Callum

A switch barrel rifle a mate has just brought is a very easy set up, the receiver end of the barrel has been milled so that a truck sparkplug wrench will go over it, a piece of aluminium put into a vice that sits in the ejection port of the action holds it still, just a matter of unscrewing one barrel and screwing a new one in to the right torque. takes about 5 mins.

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## kiwijames

Good god @ChrisF. I like you reviews of scopes and things but you appear to have a hard on for a rifle you have ZERO experience with and regularly bang on about it. Come up with some real proof for once aye.

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## gimp

It's funny 'cos there's people on the internet quoting his posts about a plastic washer holding the action together or some such as fact

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## ebf

Gimp, if it is on the interweb somewhere it HAS to be true  :Grin: 

Had a think about your Leupy question, you might need to use a bit of duct tape before sending it in for warrantee repairs... On second thought, maybe you should buy a mega roll  :Thumbsup:

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## ebf

> A switch barrel rifle a mate has just brought is a very easy set up, the receiver end of the barrel has been milled so that a truck sparkplug wrench will go over it, a piece of aluminium put into a vice that sits in the ejection port of the action holds it still, just a matter of unscrewing one barrel and screwing a new one in to the right torque. takes about 5 mins.


Cool, what calibers and what is the action ?

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## Barefoot

> It's funny 'cos there's people on the internet quoting his posts about a plastic washer holding the action together or some such as fact


If it breaks can I just get another one from the plumbing shop?

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## gimp

> If it breaks can I just get another one from the plumbing shop?



you'd probably want to take the bolt out of your eye first.

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## Spanners

Easy peezy....
Buy headspace gauges for calibers.. Get barrels externally threaded and fit Savage style barrel nuts.
Screw onto gauge, do up external nut and nip - job done
Mitch Max has a long tube nut for doing the barrels up on his tube guns.. Could go that way or just a std savage spanner

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## Kiwi Greg

> Think Leupold would honour the warranty on the scope?


Probably... worth a crack Nigel.... :Have A Nice Day:

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## Proudkiwi

> Because I donot like them .
> 
> After talking to a couple of smiths with alot of experience , UK & Germany , they said they have good barrels & usually shoot accurately , but most other parts are cheap .
> the German smith said , a large police unit guarding airports in Germany , brought a number of their tac rifles , and returned them 3 times as they would not constantly hold a zero over time , in the end went with something else , this was using the blaser saddle mounts.
> If you ever see photos of what the european & german police use , its actually rare to see the Blaser tac rifles in use , what you do see is lots of HK PSG-1 , PSG-1As , DSR-1s , PGMs , Sako TRGs , BT APRs , Sauer SSG3000 , Steyr SSGs , Steyr SSG04s , Steyr CISMs , and a assortment of AIs .
> 
> They have had a number of cases of the bolt unlocking during firing , usually due to gases from a blown primer running down the firing pin hole and melting a thrust washer camming the finger splines closed , and when that happens its very messy , do a search and you will find photos of guys that have had the bolt driven into their face .
> It has not happened much , I think about 4-5 times , BUT it has happened , and ME I am NOT very luckly , actually I have no luck at all .
> The idea of a switch barrel rig saving you money , again in theory , and not really in practice .
> ...


Cool story bro.

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## ebf

> Easy peezy....
> Buy headspace gauges for calibers.. Get barrels externally threaded and fit Savage style barrel nuts.
> Screw onto gauge, do up external nut and nip - job done
> Mitch Max has a long tube nut for doing the barrels up on his tube guns.. Could go that way or just a std savage spanner


Yup, savage barrel nuts are cool.

The "varmint" barrel I have is pretty chunky, so you'd probably end up with a shoulder and tiny gap.

The barrels aren't pre-fit, so more likely to go with machine to correct dimensions and then tighten to known torque with witness marks as backup.

Still investigating options for lug : pin it, external cradle for alignment or notch action and use savage style lug ?

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## Spanners

Just tig tac it to the receiver

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## ebf

> Just tig tac it to the receiver


Hmmmm, ...... Naah  :Psmiley: 

Looks like I have already scared away one gunsmith with this thread, if I start mentioning welding the lug I suspect several others may join in...

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## Spanners

Why not? It's just to stop it rotating and keep it in position.
A dab of silfos on the receiver side under the action wood do same job 
There are a number of ways to do it better, but it's a 788 and $500 to get machine work done on 2 barrels and get fancy with it... You've got limited factors before you start

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## ebf

Existing barrel should not need rechambering, maybe a tweak or 2 on tennon and shoulder to get headspace ok for specific torque.

Cradle would be some fly-cutting on a block to get receiver profile, drill hole for front action screw, and mill slot for lug, no need to start messing with the action.

Barrel #2 was $100
Re thread, chamber etc $250 (only part of the build that I am paying commercial rates for)
Materials for action wrench & cradle $50 ?
Machine time for wrench and cradle $100 ?

Barrel vice I can do from some oak and bolts I have in the workshop.

Only thing left is go/no-go gauges for both calibers as a safety check after swopping.

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## Neckshot

Visa card=Blaser!!! Job done :Grin: 

bloody shit phone

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## Sidney

For what its worth..

I don't think that I would build a switch barrel rifle on a conventional action for non target/range use.  If I did, I would definitely have two scopes and detachable ring setups that provide the best chance of consistent re-zero.  While that works for my R8 because said mounts are fixed to the barrels, the same can't be said for your proposed setup.... you might have to re-sight every time anyway.

What I have found in the past, is that any requirement to re-sight a rifle for a change in bullet load etc, is nothing but a curse even if the range is only 10 minutes away.  Not so much a problem if we are talking about range rifles obviously, but for hunting/varmint set ups... just a curse.

Even with the Blaser, I have ended up with dedicated scopes for each barrel to avoid that..

Appreciate what you are trying to do and for the money involved it may be worth a crack, but it may well be something that you get sick of quick enough....

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## username

> Yeah well James, I am missing the 6k for the blouser, and have a lefty action and both barrels already so looking to make the most of what I have...


Blouser :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## kiwijames

> Blouser
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh comon, you've not heard that one yet? :Thumbsup:

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## username

Na sorry i generally keep out of discussions i know nothing about and blasers are a topic i know effall about. Could you not own 2 sako 85 for the price of a Blaser?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## kiwijames

> Na sorry i generally keep out of discussions i know nothing about and blasers are a topic i know effall about. Could you not own 2 sako 85 for the price of a Blaser?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dunno? maybe? Why?

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## Sidney

I could own 1 blouser with two barrels for 2 sako 85s = 2 all

Or 1 blouser and 4 barrels for 3 sako 85s = 4/3 in the blouser's favour....    :Grin: 

and it gets better after that...

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## Proudkiwi

And, I owned multiple 85's......dont have any left.

Still got my R8  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Proudkiwi

Must stock up on washers though........and faces apparently.

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## Sidney

where do you buy those washers....mine's missing.... :Thumbsup:

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## Barefoot

Mitre 10, plumbing isle

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## ChrisF

Here's a pic of my switch barrel , needs a vice and action wrench & torque wrench .

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## NZShoota

> Guys, not interested in buying a whole new rifle, I have an action and two barrels already... Just keen to hear what the options are for putting it together.
>  @NZShoota, thanks, that sounds like what I am after. Single or double pin ? Could you post pic of your rear wrench pls. My action in Remmy 788, so not looking at a lug based wrench. Just round bar, with a slot milled in it, then pop a "key" into the roundbar through the action port.


Single pin in the recoil lug. Scott at SSRNZ did the work. Wrench is a Davidson.

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## Sidney

> Here's a pic of my switch barrel , needs a vice and action wrench & torque wrench .




Nice rifle.....

Here is a photo of my vice, action wrench and torque wrench....   :Grin:

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## ChrisF

Yeap ,

And the new AIs use a smaller allen key than that , to do their barrel swaps , and its held inside the stock cheek piece .

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## ebf

What are the calibers Chris ? Having trouble zooming on the pic ....

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## Proudkiwi

Call me ignorant, but assuming you had chambered and correctly head spaced barrels, and you had a barrel vice, action wrench and a torque wrench wouldnt that essentially render every rifle on the planet (exaggeration for effect) a switch barrel rifle Chris?

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## kiwijames

> Yeap ,
> 
> And the new AIs use a smaller allen key than that , to do their barrel swaps , and its held inside the stock cheek piece .


Good to see they're learning. Hopefully they avoid the plastic washers

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## ChrisF

RIGHT ,

Different design and materials than the blasers , IF AIs where mostly plastic , they would weigh a lot less , they are not a lite hunting rifle thats for sure , then they where not designed to be.
As to washers , they do use them , they are 0.6mm thick and brass I think , they have 4 , and they seperate the action body from the alloy chassis/frame , this allows a small gap for the glue/epoxy to sit .
AI actions use 4x bolts to hold them into the chassis .

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## ChrisF

Not quite , most AIs ( exception was the AE , no longer made ) , donot have a seprate recoil lug , so like some custom actions , there is not way a seperate recoil lug , pinned or otherwise to move or fall out , during barrel change .
Also like a lot of target rifle actions , the AIs have a very long barrel thread in ( tunion ) , its 38mm long , most sporters are only 13mm , the Rem is abit longer at 0.75 or approx 18mm , so that and the fact that the action is solidly ( 4x bolts ) , and permately bonded/glued into the alot chassis/frame .
In short the action & chassis are  bonded together for ever , all other stuff is removable & replaceable , from the locking ring insert inside the action & bolt ( either just the head or complete body ) .

IF the locking ring gets too worn , simple , pull barrel out & then just push the ring out , new ring & bolt and the rifles back to like new , a shooting range in the USA , had over 100,000 rds thru a AI AW , they had done the nromal barrel changes every 10k , so 10x barrels , and towards the end of that 100k , it broke a small pin that holds the bolt stop catch in place , BUT that did not stop the rifle from firing and being able to use .

The new AIs , have the same long thread in , but you just thread them in hand tight and then snug up a small allen head bolt & its done .

RE the blasers , the Aussie Army use the 338LM model , and was out into service with out the usuall trialls , ie emergency issue , word is they have had some trouble ie blow ups ? 


Later  Chris

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## Proudkiwi

Chris, you are a strange yet entertaining man. I look forward to reading your posts  :Have A Nice Day: 

As for one of your earlier posts in this thread, the idea that an AI or a TRG M10 or a DTA would make an ideal varmint rifles is akin to me suggesting that an aircraft carrier would make an ideal fishing platform around the coromandal. Not technically incorrect but almost absurd enough to qualify.

I've not come across someone that so embraces the whole Mil thing before. I find it interesting and entertaining.

Please don't stop  :Have A Nice Day:

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## kiwijames

> Chris, you are a strange yet entertaining man. I look forward to reading your posts 
> 
> As for one of your earlier posts in this thread, the idea that an AI or a TRG M10 or a DTA would make an ideal varmint rifles is akin to me suggesting that an aircraft carrier would make an ideal fishing platform around the coromandal. Not technically incorrect but almost absurd enough to qualify.
> 
> I've not come across someone that so embraces the whole Mil thing before. I find it interesting and entertaining.
> 
> Please don't stop


I'm sure the local scout brigade gets the same riveting monologue every fortnight too. The advantages of an overly heavy and impractical (for 95% of all scouting activities) tactical woggle.

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## marky123

Back in the Uk I had a Savage with 308,243 and 22/250 barrels.Swapping them out involved dropping the stock and removing the scope which meant rezeroing everytime.I just stuck with the 243 in the end,it was easier.

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## Spanners

Sell the lot and get a Rossi Wizard in 2 calibers for $399.. Or 3 for $550

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## 338

> Cool, what calibers and what is the action ?


It belongs to me. It is a maxberry tube rifle (Barnard action). He switched the barrel over for me to .308 in 5 mins and I took it out to the range the next day and shot a 1/2" 5 shot group at 400 yards with it!!! I'm confident the switch barrel system works but my one concern is that the threads could wear out if you were changing barrels often. I will be keeping it .308 for a while until I possibly move on to f open so that is not a issue for me.

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