# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  .22TCM Micro Varmint rifle build

## Wingman

.22TCM Varmint Rifle build

The .22 TCM is a cartridge designed to run out of a 1911 pistol magazine and reaches a scorching 2000fps with a 40gr bullet for the 5 barrel. 





That to me just screams fun in a longer rifle barrel. 
The parent case is a .223Rem cut down to 1.030 and necked back down to .224 without neck turning leaving the brass thicker. 

I purchased some factory made Armscor Precision Co brass just to get going but will probably make my own from some quality match brass at a later date.
The brass was hard and was very temperamental when trying to seat flat based bullets, I had a few collapsing in the press so I annealed them and chamfered all the case mouths. This fixed the issue and Im set to go. I might make up a neck flaring die to help seat the flat bases bullets concentric.





Factory loading dies are being made by Lee, Redding and Hornady  and I have picked ups some Lees and some Redding to test.



I also ordered a custom ground chamber reamer for it form USA and it arrived in a timely manor. 

The idea here was not to make a screaming fast and loud wildcat, but a very versatile economical small game cartridge to be able to make under any circumstances (500+rds per pound of powder).

I found the TCM after trying to decide one what to replace my .22 magnum with for busting longer range bunnies. 
.22 magnum ammo is ridiculously over priced at $35 per 50 rounds of 30gr Hornady V-max (the only ammo my semi shoots well) and really has no more effective accurate range than my CZ .22lr shooting CCI stds which I can pick up for not much more for a 500 round brick.

221 fireball was an option but was nipping at the heals of my .222 and .223s which are a little too much of an overkill and a touch noisy in some areas I do pest control. 
The idea of another .22 K hornet bored me and I had a few over the years and the brass is terrible stuff that is prone to neck splits and case head separation with anything other than soft loads. Lets be real here though, it was designed in 1885 as the .22 WCF, a black powder cartridge shooting cast lead
 Personally I feel it has had its day and I had a modern replacement in my sights. 

.22 TCM seemed to have potential and cheap yet versatile small game cartridge.
I was definitely in the mindset of a reloadable micro centre fire case as I have a few CZ 527s and a Brno Fox which are the perfect small actioned rifle to be chambered for this cartridge! 
Advantages... Obviously higher velocities than 22lr/mag, but also uses modern rimless cases and can be made from readily available 222 rem, 223 rem, 5.56, .204rug brass etc.
Case capacity is about the same as a 22 K Hornet, but will withstand much higher pressures if needed. 

.22 TCM is a proprietary case not SAAMI approved and there is no load data published for it by any bullet or powder manufacturers.
This made it hard for me to decide on a bullet and barrel twist. 
Choices of .224 bullets are endless and you could even use heavy cast bullets for some quiet subsonic loads.

After a bit of thought I have chosen to run 40gr ballistic tip varmint bullets and will be testing a range of manufacturers offerings. I will hope to push them to 3000fps and maybe run some 50gr to 53gr bullets too which will suit the 1-14 to 112 twist.

I was also unsure how long the barrel would need to be as there is not a lot of info out there in regards to using rifle powders in this case instead of the pistol powders intended for the 5 pistol barrels. 

For this reason I decided to make a prototype for testing purposes before I set up my nice match grade barrel. 
I pulled an old Remington 700  1- 12 twist 24 long Varmint barrel off my shelf that had a worn out throat and a little bit of pitting around the muzzle end from being stored with a suppressor attached. 
It has been well used but it will serve to give me the data I need. 






I cut off the old .223 chamber and threaded it to fit the CZ 527 then chambered and crowned it finishing up at 22 long. I intend to find the best powder for it and then start cutting it down an inch at a time until the velocity drops. I suspect the case will be super efficient and wont need a long barrel to reach total burn and max velocity with fast burning rifle powders. 










I loaded up a few test rounds with 11gr of ADI 2205 as it was a medium load for the .22 K hornet which shares almost the same case capacity.  This gave 2700fps over the chrono which was 300fps faster than the ADI hornets published load with a 24 barrel, very promising.







With no pressure signs and the spent cases looked great I slowly increased the charge to a max compressed load of 12.2gr of 2205 which produced 2838fps. 
This is all I can get out of the 2205 due to case capacity not pressure issues.



I tried a full compressed load of 2207 as well which was 11.5gr and that only got me 2165fps so clearly to slow of a burn for this cartridge. 

I need to get my hands on some Hodgdon LilGun as it has a similar burn rate but less bulk. I have read that 14.5gr of Lilgun fills the same volume .22 K Hornet case and gets the best velocities from that cal with 40gr bullets. 
I will also run some tests with some Hodgdon H110 tomorrow and see what that can do. 
It is possible that the 22 barrel is actually restricting the velocity rather than aiding it but I will find out in due course. 
The muzzle report unsuppressed sounds like a .22 magnum and there is no recoil worth mentioning. 
I hope to get it as short as 16 to 18 and run a small suppressor so it will be a very handy varminting tool

Once I get a load sorted Ill put it on paper and see how it does. The new chamber cleared the worn throat section and I cut the muzzle thread off and re crowned it so the bore is actually in pretty good shape now, it should shoot well. 

Another project will be making a new mag follower and block to fit in the rear of the mag to get these shorties to feed better from the mag.

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## Moutere

Awesome.

Looks like that will be a whole lot of fun to use.
Looking forward to seeing some further results with it posted.

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## rossi.45

interesting build  . .  what kind of accuracy are you getting with the loads you have tried ?

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## 199p

Mate thats cool as little round

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## 223nut

Would be an ideally tool to take into areas where no rimfires are allowed yet you don't want to use expensive ammo removing varmints

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## yerimaginaryM8

Very Nice!  hope it goes well for you.  Are you planning to neck turn the brass you form out of 223? Some .223 WSSM brass apparently had very thick neck walls and some people experienced problems with it cracking. Any problems that arise potentially may vanish if you switch to brass formed from Lapua or Norma. I have a wildcat based on a shortened 7 saum that gave me grief with rem brass but issues disappeared once I switched to Norma.

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## nor-west

I want one!!

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## csmiffy

> Very Nice!  hope it goes well for you.  Are you planning to neck turn the brass you form out of 223? Some .223 WSSM brass apparently had very thick neck walls and some people experienced problems with it cracking. Any problems that arise potentially may vanish if you switch to brass formed from Lapua or Norma. I have a wildcat based on a shortened 7 saum that gave me grief with rem brass but issues disappeared once I switched to Norma.


Yup and considering that the humble 22 hornet is not allowed in some areas (like a rimfire), this beats that clause.
Interested. I had a 22k hornet barrel years ago and it may still be with my other rifles at my mates place. Not sure if I didn't give it to him or not, but it would be an interesting build.

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## R93

22k Hornet has had its day?

2900 fps with 55gr projectile
3000fps with 50gr projectile
3100 with 45gr projectile
3180 with a 40 gr projectile
Had no issues with RWS brass if looked after. 

All close to the same charge and not using lil gun or 110

Cool concept and build but not all that different to a K ballistic wise. 

It's just unique 


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## Wingman

> Very Nice!  hope it goes well for you.  Are you planning to neck turn the brass you form out of 223? Some .223 WSSM brass apparently had very thick neck walls and some people experienced problems with it cracking. Any problems that arise potentially may vanish if you switch to brass formed from Lapua or Norma. I have a wildcat based on a shortened 7 saum that gave me grief with rem brass but issues disappeared once I switched to Norma.


Nah wont be neck turning, the reamer is designed to cut the neck area larger than a  std .223rem neck to allow for the thicker brass. Neck turning would mean it would work the brass more as it would expand more on firing.
I have read that they benefit from annealing every load or second loading to prevent splitting. As you say, if I do have issues I'll make some from Lapua brass.

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## Wingman

> 22k Hornet has had its day?
> 
> 2900 fps with 55gr projectile
> 3000fps with 50gr projectile
> 3100 with 45gr projectile
> 3180 with a 40 gr projectile
> Had no issues with RWS brass if looked after. 
> 
> All close to the same charge and not using lil gun or 110
> ...


Ha I knew Id get a rise out of some Hornet fan  :Grin: 
Truth be known Im a k hornet fan too and have had a few..
I worked some H110 loads up today that equal and better those you listed.. Im using K Hornet loading data to give me a starting point. So far its showing real promise.

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## R93

> Ha I knew Id get a rise out of some Hornet fan 
> Truth be known Im a k hornet fan too and have had a few..
> I worked some H110 loads up today that equal and better those you listed.. Im using K Hornet loading data to give me a starting point. So far its showing real promise.


Rise? Just having a giggle. 

I have always wanted  K for the same reasons you built your TCM.
Fills a gap and there's not that many around to be fair. 

Yet I am only running a 19" barrel. Had loads a bit faster but not as accurate as to where I have settled.

Thicker brass should be an advantage for the TCM
Have a look at some 300MP.
I get lil gun velocities for less powder. 
Better ES and case life etc




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## Wingman

thanks for the heads up on 300MP.. Lilgun is not off to a good start in TCM...will document shortly.

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## R93

> thanks for the heads up on 300MP.. Lilgun is not off to a good start in TCM...will document shortly.


I got velocity and reasonable accuracy out of lil gun but it was all over the place ES wise. Not really an issue in a sub 300yrd rifle but I am fussy

300MP works good in my barrel in every aspect so settled on it.
Can be hard to get tho. 

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## Wingman

So I assembled a few more loads with 40gr  Sierra blitzkings and Hodgdon H110.. 
much better velocities than the 2205 gave me.

H110-  12.0gr=2858fps,    12.5gr=3002fps,    13.0gr=3103fps



All looks good with only minor primer cratering on the 13gr loads. I stopped there as the K hornet data said 12.9gr was a max load with a 40gr bullet and the pressure signs I saw slowly increasing through that string is consistent with that info. 

While I call the 13gr my max charge with H110 I thought Id put a few on paper just to see if this thing groups.

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## Wingman

Before grouping I wanted to address the brass necks a little more. The Armcor Precision co brass was fairly roughly cut on the case mouth and lengths varied quit a bit which wasnt helping when trying to seat flat based projectiles concentrically. One in three loads had a wobble when rolled on a flat surface. 

So I quickly spun up a case OAL pilot for a lee cutter to cut all the brass to the same length and square them up. A quick case harden and I put it to work. they were then all followed up with a chamfering tool and they look and load way better. 









I loaded 5 rounds (all now concentric) with 13gr of H110 and headed out in the sunshine on the bench.





I bore sighted it on an object at 50y then put 5 on paper at 100y. They hit 5" high of the bore sight so not bad  :Thumbsup: 
The group shows real potential but the deviation/extreme spread was pretty crap. 

FPS= 3076, 3111, 3106, 3164, 3111

Now this could be the primer, powder or just the variation in the new brass and may get better after fire forming. Still it has given me a benchmark to tune from. 



The two separated point of impacts could have been me with a 7X mag scope, but Im willing to bet its one or more of the things I just mentioned or the fact the barrel doesnt quite have enough clearance at the front of the fore end. I could feel it knocking when I moved it on the bipod and  separate group clusters like that often point at bedding. Ill need to run a few more groups to figure that one out. 
All excuses aside its a 3/4" group CTC and Ill take it..



I didnt want to inlet the stock any more as it was set up for my trueflight barrel on the 6.5 grendel and this is only a test barrel at this stage. I might have to give it a slight skim down in the lathe to give it a touch more clearance.

Ill fit a 10X scope to it tonight too and shoot off my front and rear bags in future for potentially better accuracy results.

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## Wingman

So after some promising results with H110 I shot into town to pick up some Lilgun as Ive read its the go to powder in hornet at the moment and found some mentions on forums of guys using it to load for their TCM pistols.

I looked up Hodgdons data for Lilgun in .22 K hornet as I did for H110 and got the min load of 12.5gr and a max load of 13.5gr. I dropped 12.5gr in and headed out to the chrono... then all hell broke loose.. 3328fps





I thought all was well as it was a light starter load according to Hodgdons Hornet data and I didnt even know it had blown a primer pocket until I lifted the sticky bolt. The pocket has stretched big enough to fit a large rifle primer! The tough little Mauser action did its job perfectly and vented the gas through the actions relief hole and I could trace the sooty gas trail across the various steps and machined faces designed to keep the shooter safe in a burst primer scenario such as this.  
I cant quite work that one out as H110's pressures and velocities aligned perfectly with their data but will try again tomorrow from a start load of 10gr of lilgun.

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## nor-west

I really want one now  :Thumbsup:

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## southernman

I like this thread, I've been playing with sub cals fro a number of years, with a couple .17 hornets a .17 fireball and a 20 vartarg at present, 
 I had similar problems with little gun, very erratic in my experience, also with a CZ, 
 I think you should take a look at blackout, as a powder, this has worked fantastic for me, in both .17 hornet, 22 hornet and .221 fireball.
 Ive got my eyes on a cooper in 218 bee, that's been for sale in Alberta, for quite a while, must be close to the same performance, as your little, .22 TCM.

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## Wingman

> big question is will they work good in an 12inch barrelled ar15?.thinking this would be a good goat rifle for easy carry.


Yes there are some AR15 .22TCM conversion in the states with good results.

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## csmiffy

Are there any rifles primo for an easy conversion?

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## Wingman

Id say anything with a .223 sized bolt face. I need to try feeding them from an internal mag such as Rem 700 or Howa. The CZ 527 or Brno Fox works perfectly with the controlled feed but I will need to make a plastic spacer block for the rear of the mag and a new shorter follower or import a .221 fireball mag for it..

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## Wingman

I loaded some more Hodgdon Lilgun loads today, the start load of 10g.. no blown primers today.

10.0gr = 3034fps
10.5gr = 3069fps
11.0gr = 3144fps  Flat primer with cratering

Im going to call 10.5gr my max load in this barrel. Ill load 5 more up and check the ES when I get a moment.
I have ordered some Alliant 300MP to test too (thanks for the heads up  on that one  @R93 )

I have decided not to waste time on this barrel chasing accuracy etc, it has served its purpose other than the shortening length tests which Ill get to in the next few days too. 

I have made a start on machining a Shilen 1-14" twist barrel for it tonight which I think will get slightly higher velocities with less pressure and will be better to test accuracy with. 
Looking at the velocities in the Remington barrel with 3 different powders tells me Im getting an average maximum velocity with the 40gr Sierra Blitzking off 3000fps(ish) with the 22" 1-12" twist barrel but Id really like to go shorter with the Shilen. Cutting an inch at a time off the test barrel should help me decide but Im leaning towards a 20" now.

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## rossi.45

this is getting really interesting . . . look forward to seeing how the Shilen goes.

the Shilen i have, 1/14 twist in .22 VarTarg Turbo is a gem  .. . shoots the 50grn. VMax into tiny clusters and punches way above its weight.

R.

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## Micky Duck

lil gun sure has been a scorcher and given you the case capacity you desied...I use it in the 7.62x39mm but havent pushed it or chronied it...it goes bang and stuff dies.

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## Bill999

Very cool

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## Marty Henry

> So after some promising results with H110 I shot into town to pick up some Lilgun as Ive read its the go to powder in hornet at the moment and found some mentions on forums of guys using it to load for their TCM pistols.
> 
> I looked up Hodgdons data for Lilgun in .22 K hornet as I did for H110 and got the min load of 12.5gr and a max load of 13.5gr. I dropped 12.5gr in and headed out to the chrono... then all hell broke loose.. 3328fps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought all was well as it was a light starter load according to Hodgdons Hornet data and I didnt even know it had blown a primer pocket until I lifted the sticky bolt. The pocket has stretched big enough to fit a large rifle primer! The tough little Mauser action did its job perfectly and vented the gas through the actions relief hole and I could trace the sooty gas trail across the various steps and machined faces designed to keep the shooter safe in a burst primer scenario such as this.  
> I cant quite work that one out as H110's pressures and velocities aligned perfectly with their data but will try again tomorrow from a start load of 10gr of lilgun.


I had that once man it gives you the shits, had loaded up 100 rounds of 308 for a competition, and went out to practice the day before. Fire five shots all good but I decide to do a few more though. Carry on then wham, puff of gas in the face and bolt wont open. Go home, get it open but the case still there, primer smeared all over bolt and action. Turned out Id mixed rifle and pistol primers in the hand primer. Rapid bullet pulling , depriming and reloading till the wee hours. Neednt have bothered got horribly outclassed and finished just about last as I was still uncertain about the ammo.

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## csmiffy

> Id say anything with a .223 sized bolt face. I need to try feeding them from an internal mag such as Rem 700 or Howa. The CZ 527 or Brno Fox works perfectly with the controlled feed but I will need to make a plastic spacer block for the rear of the mag and a new shorter follower or import a .221 fireball mag for it..


Well considering what you said at the start with them feeding from a 45 mag, could you adapt one of them ala the delisle carbine into the housing/magazine?

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## Wingman

> Well considering what you said at the start with them feeding from a 45 mag, could you adapt one of them ala the delisle carbine into the housing/magazine?


The possibilities are endless.. 45acp would be to short for my set up as Im loading the balistic tipped varmint bullets long as Im not restricted to length. The factory TCM pistol rounds are loaded with a very short rounded soft point like a traditional .22 hornet bullet  so they can fit in the pistol mag, there is also a TCM9 which is seated even shorter for 9mm pistol conversions. 

 Im just finishing up my Shilen barrel now and will test the previous loads in the slower twist. Im considering cutting the throat a bit deeper on this one for a longer COAL as my mags dont restrict it. It may claim back a little more case capacity and velocity too.

 


instants by jorge luis borges

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## csmiffy

Fair enough. Good intel though

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## Kamel

I realize you might be busy, and have only just posted more info for us, but for christ sake hurry up with the next edition.  I am having fun hitting the like button so many times in one thread.  :Thumbsup:  :Thumbsup:

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## Wingman

The Shilen 1-14" is finished and fitted so will run some test loads over the chrony and put it on paper this arvo.
Im still waiting on the Aliant 300MP powder for it, Im really hoping it will even out the horrible extreme spreads that the H110 gives me but retain the good velocity. 

I sat down an nutted out the mag situation last night too.
They feed perfect in my Brno Fox .222 but in the .223 they begin to ride up the feed ramp before the feed lips release it up into the controlled feed extractor. This causes misalignment about 50% of the time.  I will alter a .223 mag with a plastic block in the rear and shorten the feed lips by about 3mm to match the .222 fox mag, this will let the cartridge pop up earlier and straighter before contacting the feed ramp giving the extractor a better chance of catching it squarely.

I have also just acquired a Brno ZK465 .22 Hornet which may be perfect with the shorter action and the TCM Shilen barrel fitted on it. Ill have to have a close look at the 465s mag though. It may not be wide enough for the .223 sized case.

I will wait for the Alliant 300MP to arrive before I cut the test barrel down inch by inch. Ill shoot 5 rounds at each barrel length taking an average velocity from that. Im not confident the irratic velocity data the H110 will give me will be overly helpful for this experiment.

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## 6x47

Brno Fox v 465 = Maccas v Caviar

Go the 465!

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## Kamel

With the 465 action, I am sure you will run into problems as they have those internal guide ridges, for want of a better name, and they will be way too narrow for anything based on 222/223 brass, unless you can iron them out and widen it internally.  I had a 5.7mm Johnson, 30M1 necked down to 22 cal, and the ribs inside the mag had been flattened out by the fella I bought it off, could only fit four in the mag as well, but that didnt matter much. 

Have you thought of using CFEBLK powder, it is sposed to be pretty good for getting speed out of small capacity cases ??  Dunno where you could get it over there, here it is distributed by Winchester Australia.

Good luck with the project.

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## viper

Awesome thread....where's the next installment ?

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## Wingman

Ha ha.. calm down you lot  :XD:  Its nice to see some interest in my thread but unfortunately this one is happening in real time.. 
Im running a 7 day a week business as well as a household with 2 kids, one is only 3 months so free time is a comodity at the moment and I oftern find myself in the worksop after midnight just to get time to myself..

I prefer to post solid info and progress which also serves a double purpose for me, it not only documents the build and testing but helps me double check everything so I dont make silly mistakes but also gives you lot a chance to share your ideas and opinions which I am greatfull for. 

I have chronoed the new shilen barrel and Im very happy with the results but Im waiting for the Aliant 300MP powder to arrive befor I do any real accuracy testing with it.  
I will make a start on a mag to feed the TCM in the intermission while we wait on courier companies etc. 

Here a look at my shiney new 1-14" Shilen tube instead. Sorry about the crappy low light indoor pics  :Thumbsup:

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## svt40

Fantastic write up, photos and story. Following with interest as 22TCM is something ive been intrigued by as well for exactly the same reasons.

Ive played around with numbers in QL before, which is of academic use only, but plugging your data in gives some info that could be useful for what velocities you might expect from a shorter barrel

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## Wingman

Thank you for that.. Ill update my current load dimentions later for a more accurate graph. My COAL is quite long compared to oem specs with room to grow if I push the throat forward a little more. My current load with the std freebore reamer seat a flat base Blitzking inline with the bottom of the neck to shoulder junction and that gives me 10 thou jump to lands. 
Out of interest, what does Quickload suggest is the optimal barrel length to get max velocity from this load?  

Primers are also something I need to test. The factory ammo uses a small pistol primer but Ive been testing with small rifle Federal gold match primers. I will load some pre fire formed brass with various powders and primers when I get to accuracy testing and load development stages .

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## Kamel

Fair go there Wingman, we are only trying to give you a little more encouragement, you are doing a bloody good job, the like button got hit again, but please, please, lay off with the lame excuses and get back into the workshop.  :Psmiley:  :Thumbsup:  :Thumbsup:

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## csmiffy

I like everything but the bolt handle lol

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## Wingman

Cz 527 and brno fox bolt handles are a PITA.. no clearance on scopes unless you use very high rings.. I cut this one off and reshaped it to work with low mounts.. this particular action is not actually staying as the TCM, it has a take down alloy an carbon fiber chassis which this bolt handle is more fitting.

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## svt40

I started with a COAL of 38 - 40mm looking at your photo, but QL gave pressures and velocities that seemed a bit low - COAL makes a huge difference in QL and also QL can't account for individual variances. So i fudged the COAL to match your velocity results, which should give corresponding proportional numbers for barrel lengths. Its all diminishing returns past 20" - about 23fps per inch. 18" looks to be a good balance between maximizing velocity vs handiness.

also FYI QL suggests (to be taken as advice only , its just a software calculation as you know ) that youd be around 49k PSI with 13gr to make that velocity from that barrel , and 13.4 grains will have you hitting up to 55k PSI. H110/W296 seems to be about the best powder choice for it.


Once youve made your final barrel would you be interested in selling on the reamer?

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## Wingman

My COAL is 39mm running 13gr of H110 with an average speed of 3180fps in the 22" 1-12" twist but the ES is all over the show. It might get better on the second loading once all the brass is fire formed.

I machined the 1-14" twist Shilen to 20" and the 2 test shots gave me 3210 and 3203fps with the same load over the chrony.

I have high hopes for the Aliant 300MP after reading the great results of .22K Hornet shooters on forums in regards to velocities and single figure extreme spread numbers.

Its looking like cutting up and velocity testing my other barrel will be a waist of time and ammo. The 20" Shilen points real nice and hasnt lost any speed over the faster twist 22" barrel.
The 22" 1-12" might be better for another test I have in mind.. .22TCM 40deg improved.. 
I can ream the TCM chamber with a .223AI reamer to give it a 40deg neck and straighter walls. Could be better for 50-55gr bullets or another 150-200fps from a 40gr bullet.



Im not certain the reamer will still be any good after it gets through the cues of guys barrels that are waiting patiently in line for this chambering.  :Wink:

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## Wingman

A little more midnight oil burnt and I got the Shilen barrel threaded for a suppressor and loaded some more test loads.
This time I loaded on once fired brass and use CCI BR-4 primers to see if there was any change in the extreme spreads. I also backed off the H110 charge from 13gr at 3180fps to 12.5gr at 3050fps which matched the Lilgun pressures and velocities a bit better. 

I loaded both 12.5gr of H110 and 10gr of LilGun with 40gr Sierra Blitzkings and put them on paper at 100y.

I still have the 7x VX1 mounted as my picatinny rail adaptor still hasnt arrived from USA to fit some bigger glass. There was also a bit of wind from right to left which resulted in some slight horozontal stringing but still some respectfull groups. 

The extreme spreads were better but still nothing to write home about...

H110 : 3015  3030  3051  3042  3059 



LilGun :  3034   3069  3028  3081  3042



My Alliant 300MP arrived today and also some Hornady 40gr BT V-Max projectiles so Ill try and make time tomorrow to test that too. 

The suppressor made for much quieter shooting, about the same report as a .22 magnum. 
I also made up a blind fit thread protector to keep it looking tidy.

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## csmiffy

I like the idea of a blind thread cap. 
I made a little muzzle brake for my 10/22 to cover the thread when the silencer wasn't fitted but the blind cap is simply elegant.
Nice

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## Wingman

I had a quick session with the TCM today and the new Alliant 300MP powder... 
The powder looks just like H110/Win 296 but a quick bit of research found a decoration from Alliant powders saying it is not the same powder and that it is actually slower burning than H110/296.

With that info in mind I put some loads together to work out a max load.  I started at 12gr as my H110 load is 13gr and it is meant to be slower than the H110. Here were the 300MP chrony results with 40gr Blitzkings:

12.0gr=2961fps    12.5gr=3060fps    13.0gr=3190   13.5gr=3271 very flat primer.



This is very much the same as my H110 figures and I was expecting to be able to get 14gr to 15gr in before seeing the pressure signs I saw at 13.5gr. The powder was not compressed and there is room for about 15gr without a crunch but it seems its not as slow as I was hoping so I called 12.8gr my max load.

Something I did notice was how much cleaner it burned and the lack of any sooty deposits on the necks unlike the H110 and Lilgun which are on the left and middle of this pic with 300mp on the right.. 




So I loaded 5 rounds of 40gr Sierra Blitzkings and 5 rounds of 40gr Hornady V-Max to put over the chrony on paper. 
The V-Max's were a dream to load, the small boat tail helped them seat smoothly and perfectly (and concentric without having to try) without all the nursing it takes with the flat base Blitzkings.

 

The V-Max's had to be seated a bit deeper to clear the lands as the ogive shape is quite a bit different to the Blitzkings.
This made for higher pressures and velocities than the Blitzkings so I will have to load those ones down a touch to preserve my pimer pockets better. 



The extreme spread was a little better than all the other powders Ive tried in TCM but still not that great. 
however....... they did shoot great!!! 5 rounds under 1/2 MOA. 

3196fps, 3211fps, 3198fps, 3228fps, 3148fps



The Blitzkings shot much the same sub inch as with the other powders but again the ES was a little better:

3047fps, 3052fps, 3066fps, 3081fps, 3067fps



I will try some more groups with the Vmax backed off to about 3050fps to 3100 as this seems to be where all the powders run without excess pressure. 

Here's the tiny .22 TCM next to the humble .22 Hornet for size comparison. 
Their ballistics are quite similar but although both cartridges share very similar case capacities the powders and charges seem to act quite differently.

----------


## R93

My ES was still around 40fps when I changed to 300mp in my K Hornet. Was all over the place with lil gun. 
I improved it by way of annealing, primer and running a homemade button thru after sizing as my dies run a very tight neck.
I put it down to a small case thing but my ES is depending on day 15-25fps. Not as good as my other centerfires but good enough for as far as I will shoot it.

I run the 40 vmax as well at 3100fps. They're a bit too efficient on soft game tho 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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## Wingman

@R93 Yes I am starting to pin a lot of the velocity spread on the idiosyncrasies of the small case. The TCM has a very thick neck due to its parent case being .223rem so neck tensions are very tight. Also just like hornet, tiny variations in powder charges or primers equate to big changes in velocities.
Flat based bullets have been a real challenge to seat concentric so many of them will be meeting the lands off center. The first 5 shots or 40gr V-Max show real promise so Ill continue working up a load with them.

I also need to get my hands on some Nosler  varmageddons as they have a nice little boat tail too. 
Although I built this rig primarily as a intermediate range varminting platform, I should probably see how the 50-55gr bullets  go too.
All in all its a neat little round that would be useful in all the same areas a .22 hornet is and in some scenarios maybe perform a little better. 
Did you find the 300MP cleaner in hornet too?

----------


## rossi.45

i am curious myself on how the 50grn bullets will work, i think the 55s will be to slow for Varminting but maybe good for Goats etc  . . . lookn forward to your results to find out 

be interesting to compare 40 vrs 50s once you have the data . . . will the higher velocity give the 40s the edge on paper and in the field at longer range . . . so much to look forward to.

the thick neck on the TCM is a worry . . . i would be looking at neck turning with a chamber to fit them

----------


## Wingman

So I decided to leave the Brno 465 Hornet alone after checking out the magazine for TCM. The 465s shorter action and forward mounted ejector compared to the Brno .222 and CZ 527 is an advantage for the TCM but the TCM cases are too large in the diameter to fit in the 465s mag even with mods to remove the side pressings. 
This would mean running The 465s shorter action with the .222 or .223 bottom metal and magazine to feed the TCM winch would in turn leave at least one rifle unusable in parts in my collection which Im not keen to do.





Instead I decided to leave it on the .223 action and modify a spare .223mag to feed the TCM rounds.
After a lot of meaasuring up and feeding dummy rounds to see exactly what needed to be done I puts some plastic in the mill and made a rear spacer block of 14.5mm wide.
I milled some slots into the side which locate it snugly on the slot pressings in the mag.







I then made up a new shorter follower to suit and cut a piece of .22 magnum mag spring to fit in the narrower channel. 
final mod was to shorten the feed lips back 3mm to match the lips on the .222 mag, this lets the cartridge pop up vertically earlier into the controlled feed extractor before it starts riding up the feed ramp and casing misalignment issues with the extractor. 
Ill touch up the bluing and stamp .22 TCM on the top of the follower and it will be done. It holds and feeds 5 rounds of TCM flawlessly now at any speed.

----------


## Wingman

> i am curious myself on how the 50grn bullets will work, i think the 55s will be to slow for Varminting but maybe good for Goats etc  . . . lookn forward to your results to find out 
> 
> be interesting to compare 40 vrs 50s once you have the data . . . will the higher velocity give the 40s the edge on paper and in the field at longer range . . . so much to look forward to.
> 
> the thick neck on the TCM is a worry . . . i would be looking at neck turning with a chamber to fit them



Not really a worry but a annoyance meaning annealing before every load. 
Personally if I was to bother neck turning and having to have a custom chamber reamer made to suit the new neck dia, Id be looking at making it .20cal and 40deg improved at the same time. That would be the perfect calibre in this little hot rod, the same weight bullets only faster with a higher BC.

----------


## R93

I didn't really have or notice a problem with any powder being really dirty to be fair.
I am curious to see if a bit of internal neck reaming may help with your tight necks and sooty cases? 

I agree the 465 mags are limiting.
I have single fed a few rounds I loaded long and had slightly better accuracy with the 40 vmax. 
But it is still plenty good enough at mag length.

I have shot a couple deer with the 55 hornady soft points and a couple with 45 sierras. (Clean shots inside 100yrds) the sierras seemed to do more damage so I will stick with those.
I have a heap of 50 vmax that I got of another forum member that I will try when I have some brass freed up. 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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## Wingman

It seems this 20" Shilen barrel really likes the 40gr V max projectiles.. it doesnt seem to matter what powder/velocity or how bad the extreme spread is.. at 100y they just keep cutting tiny ragged hole groups.

I revisited the slower burning 2205 yesterday with the vmax as I noticed a trend of higher velocities with those bullets. 
A max compressed load of 12.2gr of 2205 is still a low pressure load and shot this 5 shot string from new unfireformed brass. 

3032
3092
3027
2964
2981

This powder would benefit from a longer throat so I could seat the projectile out a bit and get a bit more powder in without compressing it. 
It was my go to powder in .22 K Hornet and always gave good results. Looking at these speeds Id say I could get 3300fps from it if I could get a bit more powder in there.
Its looking like Ill be setting it up to shoot the 40gr and 50gr V-Max exclusively so pushing the chambers throat forward 100-120 thou could be the go. 
a longer throat will mean less pressure on my max loads with the other three powders too which are not even close to compressed loads. 
I was hoping Aliant 300MP was going to be the answer to a slower burning powder that filled the case but it can still blow a primer out without a full case of powder. 12.5gr seems to be the sweet spot for it giving 3100fps. Other than its much cleaner burn it acts almost identical to H110.

----------


## Micky Duck

ok .... I seem to recall reading article (will try to find it again) about the hornet behaving much better when fed pistol primers...... much tighter groups and velocity spreads if memory serves me correctly...... this hot rod might be way to hot but could be worth looking into...will go digging for article now.



http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/am...motaip_200909/

----------


## Wingman

@Micky Duck thanks for that, ill give some a try too.. 
I selected SR primers after following the trends in USA forums who are reloading TCM pistols but I guess I wont know if I dont try..

----------


## Wingman

Tested the TCM on a soft target this morning.. 185 yards with a 40gr V-Max.. seems to do the job...

----------


## Mathias

> Tested the TCM on a soft target this morning.. 185 yards with a 40gr V-Max.. seems to do the job...


Brutal  :XD:

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## Micky Duck

good to see you left the back straps and able to be removed for cook up..... looks like a mighty effective wee round.

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## rossi.45

is this rifle going to get a dial up scope on top in the future or are you going to keep it as a medium range light varminter ?

----------


## Wingman

> is this rifle going to get a dial up scope on top in the future or are you going to keep it as a medium range light varminter ?


Both...  :Thumbsup: 
Still waiting for my picatinny adaptor to show up from usa to fit the bigger rings and glass

----------


## rossi.45

look forward to your results as you get more trigger time . . . especially how far you can push those 40grn bullets out to on paper and critters.

ive had plenty of experience with 50, 55, 60 grain 224 bullets at +3000fps but the 40s are an unknown  .. . good luck and good shooting

R.

----------


## Wingman

@Micky Duck  A proper thank you is in order..  I really appreciate the link to CCIs article on pistol primers in the .22 hornet...

*Pistol primers for the win!!!*

I loaded up 13 rounds with 12.8gr of 300MP, 40gr V-max and CCI small pistol primers and put them on paper at 100 yards.



There was a light wind from left to right but steady not gusting. I put 3 rounds on another target to test the load and the POI then put ten over the chrono and into this group:

The extreme spread was great! Id say these primers would sort out the other powders too but as clean as his 300MP burns I think Ill stay with it for now.

FPS=  3152,  3154,  3149,  3143,  3156,  3144,  3151,  3152,  3152,  3158  *15fps ES*



The two fliers puts the group just under an inch but thats still 8 shots inside 1/2 MOA! I cant wait to  see what this little hot rod will do with bigger glass...

Made the most of the sunny day and had a play with the 16" .223 barrel on it too. 


Even gave the old girl a few down the tube.. Brno 465 .22 hornet with 4X German Pecar optic
Not to shabby with crappy 45gr factory soft points but one day soon when I get time Ill work up a load for it with 35gr and 40gr V-max.







For those of you that didnt want to read through the whole article, here is the section regarding pistol primers in small cases: 

*Too Much Primer
You can have too much primer. When the output gas volume of the primer approaches that of the cartridge case, sometimes special handling is required. I remember when CCI was working with some experimental primers for 9mm Luger, and we started seeing odd time-pressure curves on the computer. Instead of the normal single peak, we saw two. One QA tech commented that it looked like the dual humps of a Bactrian camel.

It was a classic case of high gas volume but too little temperature. The primer's extra gas unseated the bullet while still trying to light off the main charge, producing one peak. Then the bullet retarded as it engaged the rifling, creating the second peak. Although a shooter would never notice this in a production firearm, that double hump was worrisome, and we abandoned that mix.

We have a classic case study in the .22 Hornet. For years Speer used Small Rifle primers in the Hornet. When I shot some of the data for Speer Reloading Manual Number 12, I found too many propellants that were so rangy they would not meet my standards for publishable loads. As a result, we did not show very many propellants for the Hornet, and the velocities were rather modest.

While I was developing the .22 Hornet 33-grain TNT HP bullet, I tried Small Pistol primers, knowing from the 9mm experience above that such a light bullet could be unseated by primer power alone. I'd talked to a number of handloaders who were getting better accuracy with Small Pistol primers, and I wanted a look at the concept in a lab setting. Sure enough, switching to Small Pistol primers reduced the variations in pressure and velocity and also reduced average pressure. The latter let us safely run the charge weights a little higher for velocities more appropriate to the Hornet. Manual Number 14 shows many more Hornet loads with better velocities, thanks to Small Pistol primers.*

----------


## Barefoot

Well that goes in the "you learn something new every day" file.

----------


## Micky Duck

awesome it was of help dude.enjoy your new rifle ,you sure are putting in the hard yards to make her tick.

----------


## Wingman

I got it to the stage where it shoots 40gr great at 3150fps but curiosity got the best of me this morning. 
The .22 TCM reamer I ordered just had the std length free bore for the pistol cambering so the 40gr bullets had to be seated very deep to clear the lands. 
I decided to push the throat forward to pull the projectiles out longer. This will give less case pressure and possibly allow for hotter loads without compressing loads. 
I also wanted to try some 50gr V-Max through it so it had to be done. 



I set the barrel back up in the lathe and made up a vmax dummy round of 39.5mm COAL which was a happy medium of getting the 40gr V-max boat tail off the powder and up into the neck to shoulder junction and the 40gr flat base Blitzking with still at least 3/4 of the neck engaged. 
This meant pushing the lands forward 178 thou. 



Interestingly it didnt lose any velocity shooting my same V-Max load I tested yesterday only seated further out but the primers did show much less pressure. 
Out of curiosity I moved up the charge gradually 0.2gr at a time until I got to a flat primer that looked like my last max load of 13gr of 300MP.
At 13.8gr of 300MP and my longer seated 40gr Vmax it gave me a scorching 3435fps!

Id say a load at 3300fps would be better on brass life so I will have to do some more grouping tests at that speed when I get a chance. 



I also worked up some 50gr V-Max loads with the slightly slower burning 2205,  ADI data shows 11gr of 2205 gave 2500fps with a 50gr in  a 24" barrelled .22 hornet so I figured that was a good place to start. 
11.0gr of 2205 gave me 2585fps and no pressure signs so I kept bumping up until I got to a full case at 12.0gr (but no longer a compressed load). This gave mild pressure creators at 2708fps.
Ill load a few of those to try on paper too.

----------


## erniec

It is threads like this one of yours that make this forum valuable.
Very interesting thank you.

----------


## The Claw

> Not really a worry but a annoyance meaning annealing before every load. 
> Personally if I was to bother neck turning and having to have a custom chamber reamer made to suit the new neck dia, Id be looking at making it .20cal and 40deg improved at the same time. That would be the perfect calibre in this little hot rod, the same weight bullets only faster with a higher BC.


This would be a very cool round as a 20 Cal. Not sure I'd go with a 40 degree shoulder just for feeding considerations, maybe 30 degrees and shorten 20 Tactical dies? I have thought about doing a 20 Vartarg but this could be a better option. I have a 20 Tactical reamer and a barrel on the way for it

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## Wingman

> This would be a very cool round as a 20 Cal. Not sure I'd go with a 40 degree shoulder just for feeding considerations, maybe 30 degrees and shorten 20 Tactical dies? I have thought about doing a 20 Vartarg but this could be a better option. I have a 20 Tactical reamer and a barrel on the way for it


Here it is in .20cal



I agree that would be a great cal but a bit more faffing around with neck turning and fire forming etc.

Your best bet would be to have a custom reamer made and just open up the top of some Redding .22 TCM dies for a .20cal neck sizing collet. 
The case wouldnt fit into any cut down dies as it is the bottom of a .223 rem case so much wider than the top section.


Edit: just found a forum where someone has made one

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27048

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## quadhunter260

This is  cool Wingman i thought 221 fireball be wicked but 22tcm looks cooler 😎👍

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## Wingman

I suppose I should also mention there's a .17 TCM wildcat

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## Micky Duck

17 tcm wildcat...by the time load is worked out and scope zeroed the bore is half way through usefull life/shot count????????? LOL

----------


## The Claw

> 17 tcm wildcat...by the time load is worked out and scope zeroed the bore is half way through usefull life/shot count????????? LOL


The barrel life will be many thousand rounds, so unless you are spectacularly poor at load development and sighting in then barrel life shouldn't be a problem!

Its only burning 11-13gr of powder so barrel heating/firecracking in the throat won't be a big problem like with big capacity overbore rounds

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

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## Wingman

> 17 tcm wildcat...by the time load is worked out and scope zeroed the bore is half way through usefull life/shot count????????? LOL


Youd be surprised.. reports are of very low barrel heat, I can tell you first from my .22  TCM that this is the case. Even firing 20 or 30 rounds in quick chrono sessions the barrel is barely warm to the touch. The suppressor has yet to get hot.  
Other than general bore wear from friction I dont think throat flame erosion will be an issue in the TCM. 
Id say the 17 TCM will run parallels with the .17 hornet much like the .22TCM does with 22 hornet.

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## Micky Duck

shouldve gone fishing this morning.just knew you fellas would bite at that one LOL.
years back I remember reading an article on .17 wildcats (back before they were normal and decent barrels were being made) craziest one I read of was a .17/06  guy shot all manner of beasties with it...highly un efficent .

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## Wingman

:Grin: While .17 cals have never been my thing and Id be the last guy to defend their performance, you did prompt me to document the lack of barrel heat I had noted in my TCM that Id forgotten to mention.. 
The round count in my Shilen is now 80 rounds and I have two very good loads sorted also tested 5 powders 4 bullets and 4 primers. (not all of which I documented) 
While that is at the higher end of "normal" round count for developing a load, bare in mind there is very little info out there in regards to shooting this pistol round in a rifle with varmint projectiles. 
This was always going to be a experimental toy for me and now I have good reliable safe loads that cycle reliably, Ill continue to dabble with heavier projectiles etc while putting it to use on the bunnies in my spare time.  
Hopefully this write up will save others who load this cal a lot of time and resources setting up their own TCM rifle.

----------


## Kamel

I dont think I have ever clicked on the "like" button so much as I have on this thread.  :Thumbsup:

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## Wingman

A little windy this arvo but put the new longer faster loads on paper.

40gr Hornady V-Max at 3400fps



40gr Sierra Blitzking at 3400fps



The groups opened up slightly at that velocity so went back to 3150fps to make sure it wasnt the longer lands, they didnt disappoint and cut nice ragged holes again.



I also loaded up 5 of the 50gr vmax but they didnt shoot well at all. I might have to try them in the 1-12" twist barrel.

----------


## nor-west

Lovely group at 3150 but I would be very tempted at 3400 fps but I suppose little targets at long range need tiny groups. I still need one of these.

----------


## nor-west

@Brian This is what you need to rechamber your little Sako seal gun to, see if that spare Mab barrel will fit the little sako action and get it done.

----------


## Wingman

Not a lot to report on the TCM adventure other than Im loving this cartridge and Im having a lot of fun with it. 
I spotted a hare out on my hillside this evening and rushed in to grab it. Id been messing about with the .223 barrel on the 527 action so it wasnt set up for a quick shot.. 
I thought Id take my chances anyway so as quick as I could I swapped the .223rem barrel out with the .22 TCM barrel, refitted the VX1 scope, threw on the bipod, suppressor and switched out the magazine.. loaded five 40gr V-max rounds into the mag as I walked back out to the BBQ table.. 
He was still up there soaking up the last of the sunshine, I ranged him at 230 yards so held a couple of inches over and let one fly.. 
bullet entered the chest front on and exited the rear leg which was just hanging on by skin. Not as messy as the last one hit side on but I could feel the insides were just pulp, most of which found its way out the exit wound when I picked it up. 

Did I say I love this cartridge?

----------


## Micky Duck

mate...you are stiposed to be head shooting them for instant decapification and well bled carcass so you can enjoy the cubed up back straps on that BBQ you walked past.

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## Wingman

> mate...you are stiposed to be head shooting them for instant decapification and well bled carcass so you can enjoy the cubed up back straps on that BBQ you walked past.


I prefer them slow cooked in red wine until falling off the bone..

----------


## Cordite

Interesting, so you could make a .45ACP case out of .223/5.56 brass.

Someone somewhere must have a mother of all tables, with what cases can be made up from what.

----------


## Micky Duck

yes cordite there is one of then tables out there....ask uncle google.
wingman,that looks superb,a good merlot I hope???

----------


## Wingman

> I prefer them slow cooked in red wine until falling off the bone..
> 
> Attachment 99524
> 
> Attachment 99525
> 
> Attachment 99526


No, I think I had a brain fart on the first post and wrote .45acp instead of 9mm as I had the factory 1911 pistol chambering in mind. The .45acp brass is much fatter.. the .45acp case can be made from .308 win brass though.. 

The .223 brass will make 9mm pistol brass at a pinch.
The .22TCM is made from cut down .223 brass and has a thicker brass in the neck dimensions  than the .223 rem case does because of the thicker brass in that end of the case.

----------


## csmiffy

If I had the coin and I didn't have to reload (lol) I would really like to have one of these.

----------


## Wingman

@Cordite ... and now I quoted myself in an unrelated comment instead of yours..
 its been a long day  :36 1 5:

----------


## Marty Henry

> I prefer them slow cooked in red wine until falling off the bone..
> 
> Attachment 99524
> 
> Attachment 99525
> 
> Attachment 99526


A french exchange student who was placed with us several years ago made this the way her parents did back home. The french make a big thing out of hare and how she did it was superb. She made me catch the blood and not give the liver to the cat, they were blitzed up and added to the casserole at the end to thicken it.

----------


## Cordite

> yes cordite there is one of then tables out there....ask uncle google.
> wingman,that looks superb,a good merlot I hope???


I looked at uncle Google and stumbled on this.  You learn something new every day...that you'll never need to use:

----------


## Wingman

@Flyblown killing some steel plates with the .22 TCM this morning...

----------


## Flyblown

I thought I’d better wear my safety glasses in case the bloody thing blew up.

Gotta say this is one helluva little cartridge. I said to @Wingman its like Begbie out of Trainspotting. Small, fast and very very violent. Clinically accurate. Talk about maximum bang for your buck. What a sweet rifle.

I always liked ‘em short and slightly wide in the right places. This ticks all the boxes. Every man should have one.

----------


## Scout

Very cool little round & rifle set up, I was going to do something on the KW465 action to as I like them a lot, 22 Spitfire (5.7mm Johnson) 221 Fireball might fit I thought, what about the 5.7×28mm FN, how does that compare or has that already been talked about ?

----------


## Wingman

> Very cool little round & rifle set up, I was going to do something on the KW465 action to as I like them a lot, 22 Spitfire (5.7mm Johnson) 221 Fireball might fit I thought, what about the 5.7×28mm FN, how does that compare or has that already been talked about ?



The mag is the limiting factor on a Brno ZK465 build, it is made for the hornet diameter case so fireball and spitfire are out. both of these need to be built on a .222 or .223 action. 

like I said at the start of this thread, I was wanting to build a .22 with a bit more performance than the .22 Magnum and it needed to be a centre fire so I could reload for it as .22 magnum ammo is crazy over priced for what it is. 
5.57 X 28 was actually the cal I chose to begin with but after trialling the ammo is a lot of different bolt action mags and rifles I found it wasn't going to be an easy build. The 5.7x28 case has a tiny .25cal acp case head diameter so a bolt face bushing would be needed on even a .22 hornet bolt and it would mean making a custom extractor of some description. 
Savage actually announced they were making a 5.7 bolt action varmint rifle on their model 25 series frame back in 2011 but it flopped and they pulled the pin on the project for reasons they wouldn't share. 

I very nearly ordered all the dies and chamber reamer to build one on a Brno 465 as the cartridge fits the mag and would only require the bolt face and extractor mod with the new cambering. 
A 1-14" to 1-16" twist rate would be the best for a varmint rifle build, sticking with the 32gr to 40gr varmint bullets.  

5.57x28 is objectively nothing to get excited about, it does a little bit more than a rimfire .22 magnum by pushing a 40gr v-max to 2350fps in a long barrel using a max charge of about 7.8gr of the powders Ive tested in this thread so sits somewhere between a .22 magnum and a .22 hornet. 
The 5.7 brass is  also much thinner and plagued with split necks and other loading issues of small bottle neck cases.
Subjectively, I think its a kinda cool round but it will never set the world on fire. 
That said, believe it or not not everybody needs to be able to shoot past 300 yards or wants the noise of the bigger cartridges. Some of us even use rimfires to that range.. imagine that!  :Thumbsup: 

.22 TCM,    5.57X28,    .223 Rem

----------


## nor-west

That last photo puts it into perspective, the .223 looks like a giant.

----------


## Wingman

Yes its a midget compared to its parent case .223rem. Its not till you have a few in your hand when you realize just how small but potent they are. 3400fps with 40gr is not to be underestimated. 
Its been the most fun Ive had with a centerfire in ages.. from long range hares to starlings and mynahs exploding at 120y in the paddocks its is just crazy fun.

----------


## Barefoot

> That said, believe it or not not everybody needs to be able to shoot past 300 yards or wants the noise of the bigger cartridges.


I must admit using a .222 in the last few days has been a pleasant surprise, easy to shoot and no louder than my suppressed 6XC.
not that I'm looking at building somethuing like a 22TCM any time in the future! that just looks too much like hard work.

----------


## Scout

> The mag is the limiting factor on a Brno ZK465 build, it is made for the hornet diameter case so fireball and spitfire are out. both of these need to be built on a .222 or .223 action. 
> 
> like I said at the start of this thread, I was wanting to build a .22 with a bit more performance than the .22 Magnum and it needed to be a centre fire so I could reload for it as .22 magnum ammo is crazy over priced for what it is. 
> 5.57 X 28 was actually the cal I chose to begin with but after trialling the ammo is a lot of different bolt action mags and rifles I found it wasn't going to be an easy build. The 5.7x28 case has a tiny .25cal acp case head diameter so a bolt face bushing would be needed on even a .22 hornet bolt and it would mean making a custom extractor of some description. 
> Savage actually announced they were making a 5.7 bolt action varmint rifle on their model 25 series frame back in 2011 but it flopped and they pulled the pin on the project for reasons they wouldn't share. 
> 
> I very nearly ordered all the dies and chamber reamer to build one on a Brno 465 as the cartridge fits the mag and would only require the bolt face and extractor mod with the new cambering. 
> A 1-14" to 1-16" twist rate would be the best for a varmint rifle build, sticking with the 32gr to 40gr varmint bullets.  
> 
> ...


Ha thanks for that, I can cross that off my list, just I really like the ZK465 & I have had like 10 or more 22 Hornets (2 right now) over the years & keep selling them as they don't work hard enough but like some of the small actions, hence I have 6 Vixens L461/A1 to right now, going to do a 357Max rimless on one of them soon !

----------


## rossi.45

> Ha thanks for that, I can cross that off my list, just I really like the ZK465 & I have had like 10 or more 22 Hornets (2 right now) over the years & keep selling them as they don't work hard enough but like some of the small actions, hence I have 6 Vixens L461/A1 to right now, going to do a 357Max rimless on one of them soon !


when you say about the Hornets   @Scout   ' they dont work hard enough '  do you mean they dont hit hard enough or have enough range ?

like yourself i am a big fan of the Sako Vixens . . .. sadly only have the one in 222R

----------


## Scout

I sort of mean both, I like the rifles more than the caliber, keep picking up the .222 or .223 more now days, but the Hornet is still cool to have, I use it more for the job it was intented for now days also, the new to me Sako in 17Rem might get a run now, if the barrel comes up or it will become the .357Max !

----------


## rossi.45

> I sort of mean both, I like the rifles more than the caliber, keep picking up the .222 or .223 more now days, but the Hornet is still cool to have, I use it more for the job it was intented for now days also, the new to me Sako in 17Rem might get a run now, if the barrel comes up or it will become the .357Max !


if you could get the same or close to the velocity with decent accuracy as R93 gets with his K Hornet you would be nudging .222 performance  .. . worth considering

2900 fps with 55gr projectile
3000fps with 50gr projectile
3100 with 45gr projectile
3180 with a 40 gr projectile

----------


## Kamel

I keep coming back to this build thread day after day, I am still liking this little build.  Great stuff.  :Thumbsup:

----------


## Scout

Hell those are some great speeds alright, I don't normally chronograph my Hornet loads only my big guns, I never had the heart to K one of my nice old girls but thought it looked like a nice cartridge !

Just remembered I have another Hornet in the draw, Sako M78 action, no barrel or magazine yet, was thinking of .17 Ackley Hornet but could try the K Hornet with those loads ?

----------


## R93

> Hell those are some great speeds alright, I don't normally chronograph my Hornet loads only my big guns, I never had the heart to K one of my nice old girls but thought it looked like a nice cartridge !
> 
> Just remembered I have another Hornet in the draw, Sako M78 action, no barrel or magazine yet, was thinking of .17 Ackley Hornet but could try the K Hornet with those loads ?


Give the K a go

I haven't had my K Hornet all that long and I bought it with lots of brass already formed.
So far all the brass is holding up really well. I have no idea what it has done previously. RWS performs the best in my rifle. 
I am also only running a 19" barrel so I would think you would likely get better performance with a longer one.
I will try a longer one in a K Hornet on my 465 when the current one wears or I get an itch.
I did all my development over a radar in the summer months and my velocities drop slightly during the cooler periods. They are not what I would call hot loads. I have had all projectiles I use going faster. 

I used the 55 hornadys clean shooting deer but pretty much anything of solid construction will tip them over head or neck within 100 yards out of the Hornet. 

I get thru a lot of 40 vmax and blitkings 
Mag length is a bummer as I get better accuracy with both 40 grn projectiles loaded longer but obviously cannot fill the mag. 
Loaded to mag length I still have fun on small game out to 300ish.
I have just bedded the 465 which took a bit of nutting out as they do not have a conventional recoil lug. 
Have seen a slight improvement in accuracy but haven't mucked around with it enough yet. 


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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## Wingman

After a boxing day gong shoot with a mate, the last of my 40gr blitzking and Vmax loads were spent so I spent the morning loading up 50 more 40gr Hornady Z-max for the TCM and finally got around to mounting a larger optic on it.





I fitted a 10X44 Tac Vector Optics Marksman and bore sighted it.
Fired 1 round at 100y and it was spot on for elevation but 1" right. I dialed the left windage correction and fired 3 shots..  got to love those single shot sight in moments!  :Thumbsup:

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## Wingman

The .22 TCM finally got its deserving make over.. 

I re-head spaced the Shilen barrel onto a new 527 Varmint action with a laminated stock and a 5-25x56 TVO scope. 
This is now my switch barrel rig with a .223 24" heavy varmint barrel as well.

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## Wingman

And just for fun, a 16" compact lightweight carry rifle version

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## Wingman

I didnt weigh it but probably about 5.5 to 6lbs. 
This combo will be for sale in a very lightweight carbon/kevlar stock as soon as its finished.

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## rewa

A thought regarding Alliant 300mp, it has a tendency to statically-stick to all-things-plastic (through some powder-throwers & funnels). I had some scares years-ago, with the same problem (different powder). Graphite is your friend ! anyway, Great Stuff, I envy your skills and lathe--The Ultimate Toy ! Very engaging thread..

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## Wingman

Quick update on the lightweight version. 

I have enough CZ527 bits around to put together another rifle for someone who may be keen to try this cal.
I am using the Shilen .22 TCM barrel on my 527 laminate varmint rifle now do the older test action has been made redundant.
I also have a feather weight composite stock  from High tech specialities in the US  Legendary Arms Works
just sitting under the bench doing nothing. It is super light was a bit rough so decided to get creative with it. 

Ive always wanted to give the reptilian camo job a go so what better test subject? 

 

Normally done in FDE and desert tan but I wanted to give it more of a grey muti-cam snow look so mixed a bunch of greys with flat white and matt black. 

Its a pretty complex multi layered camo but it was a fun exercise. I threw down three base colours with some highlights then some reptile scales by using the oil cooler stone guard off the Ducati as a stencil  :Grin: 








Using A4 blank sticker sheets I cut out some stencils and laid them up..
Another darker grey and some black shadows.. 









Added a few more highlights and softened some of the hard shadows with another grey tone and its all done. 
Not every ones cup of tea Im sure but at least I can say Ive done that one now  :Thumbsup: 






I dropped the TCM test action into it with a compact light scope and the 16" .223 rem barrel and it is one light little carry rifle. handles like a .22LR.  It weighs a tiny 5 lbs-12 oz.














To keep this .22TCM thread on track Ive made it a switch barrel.. Rather than let the old TCM test barrel go to waste I threw it back into the lathe and profiled it down a bit lighter with a bit more taper and cut it back to 16". 











While its a little heavier than the carbon barrel it is still a light handy rig and still shoots over 3000fps with the 40gr V-Max's. 



I have duracoated the TCM barrel matt black and baked it so 99% done.



I should have some more TCM dies arriving from the US this week so Ill put this one together as a package with some dies and brass once I modify another mag to feed the TCM rounds.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Thats a cool rig! Stock turned out great.. might give that a go myself  :Have A Nice Day:

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## nor-west

Are you going to offer it for sale, I'm very interested.

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## Sidney

Nice mate - like your work

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## Wingman

> Are you going to offer it for sale, I'm very interested.


Yes, but I still need to make another TCM mag (unless someone wants all the mag bits I have as a project) and land the reloading dies.

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## Mathias

Bit of info for those who are keen on this little round, I was in Gunworks today and they had about 4 packs of 50x 22TCM brass for sale. I was surprised how small it was, really need to see in flesh to appreciate it.

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## Wingman

Yip $50 per 100 pieces. Amanda ordered in about 500 pieces for me, I have about 300 left here too. She also has some Lee dies in stock for it.
I have the chamber reamer if anyone wants to play with this wee fire cracker. 
So tiny but packs punch!

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## Jaco Goosen

I might just take you up on the offer. Need something for my boys and this seems to be just what I need.
Thanks

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## Wingman

That one sold.. happy to chamber in tcm for anyone with a suitable rifle though. Found the 1-14" best with 40gr bullets so .222 sakos, brno's, Rem 788s, Tikka LSA 55s etc make for great donors. It is a very short cartridge so feeding from some mags can be problematic.

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## Micky Duck

yip,I well remember this thread......really impressed the heck out of me the first time I read it,you are indeed a talented man.

----------


## Wingman

And just for fun, a 16" compact lightweight carry rifle version

----------


## Wingman

I didnt weigh it but probably about 5.5 to 6lbs. 
This combo will be for sale in a very lightweight carbon/kevlar stock as soon as its finished.

----------


## rewa

A thought regarding Alliant 300mp, it has a tendency to statically-stick to all-things-plastic (through some powder-throwers & funnels). I had some scares years-ago, with the same problem (different powder). Graphite is your friend ! anyway, Great Stuff, I envy your skills and lathe--The Ultimate Toy ! Very engaging thread..

----------


## Wingman

Quick update on the lightweight version. 

I have enough CZ527 bits around to put together another rifle for someone who may be keen to try this cal.
I am using the Shilen .22 TCM barrel on my 527 laminate varmint rifle now do the older test action has been made redundant.
I also have a feather weight composite stock  from High tech specialities in the US  Legendary Arms Works
just sitting under the bench doing nothing. It is super light was a bit rough so decided to get creative with it. 

Ive always wanted to give the reptilian camo job a go so what better test subject? 

 

Normally done in FDE and desert tan but I wanted to give it more of a grey muti-cam snow look so mixed a bunch of greys with flat white and matt black. 

Its a pretty complex multi layered camo but it was a fun exercise. I threw down three base colours with some highlights then some reptile scales by using the oil cooler stone guard off the Ducati as a stencil  :Grin: 








Using A4 blank sticker sheets I cut out some stencils and laid them up..
Another darker grey and some black shadows.. 









Added a few more highlights and softened some of the hard shadows with another grey tone and its all done. 
Not every ones cup of tea Im sure but at least I can say Ive done that one now  :Thumbsup: 






I dropped the TCM test action into it with a compact light scope and the 16" .223 rem barrel and it is one light little carry rifle. handles like a .22LR.  It weighs a tiny 5 lbs-12 oz.














To keep this .22TCM thread on track Ive made it a switch barrel.. Rather than let the old TCM test barrel go to waste I threw it back into the lathe and profiled it down a bit lighter with a bit more taper and cut it back to 16". 











While its a little heavier than the carbon barrel it is still a light handy rig and still shoots over 3000fps with the 40gr V-Max's. 



I have duracoated the TCM barrel matt black and baked it so 99% done.



I should have some more TCM dies arriving from the US this week so Ill put this one together as a package with some dies and brass once I modify another mag to feed the TCM rounds.

----------


## Ryan_Songhurst

Thats a cool rig! Stock turned out great.. might give that a go myself  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## nor-west

Are you going to offer it for sale, I'm very interested.

----------


## Sidney

Nice mate - like your work

----------


## Wingman

> Are you going to offer it for sale, I'm very interested.


Yes, but I still need to make another TCM mag (unless someone wants all the mag bits I have as a project) and land the reloading dies.

----------


## Mathias

Bit of info for those who are keen on this little round, I was in Gunworks today and they had about 4 packs of 50x 22TCM brass for sale. I was surprised how small it was, really need to see in flesh to appreciate it.

----------


## Wingman

Yip $50 per 100 pieces. Amanda ordered in about 500 pieces for me, I have about 300 left here too. She also has some Lee dies in stock for it.
I have the chamber reamer if anyone wants to play with this wee fire cracker. 
So tiny but packs punch!

----------


## Jaco Goosen

I might just take you up on the offer. Need something for my boys and this seems to be just what I need.
Thanks

----------


## Wingman

That one sold.. happy to chamber in tcm for anyone with a suitable rifle though. Found the 1-14" best with 40gr bullets so .222 sakos, brno's, Rem 788s, Tikka LSA 55s etc make for great donors. It is a very short cartridge so feeding from some mags can be problematic.

----------


## Micky Duck

yip,I well remember this thread......really impressed the heck out of me the first time I read it,you are indeed a talented man.

----------

