# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  22 magnum on reds

## lloydcj

Dropped a spiker a few years ago with a 22 magnum in the ear 15 meters away standing side on, dropped him dead,  used 30 grain Winchester ammo , any one used similar or 17 Hmr ect

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## R93

Shot my first 2 sika with a .22 mag while out hare shooting near Waiouru. Shot 20-30 deer with a .22 while doing possums over the years. I will be building a .22 K hornet shortly. No doubt a few bigger animals will see the mean  end of that.

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## PerazziSC3

dropped a fallow spiker at a bit over 100 with the .17hmr. Been covered on many forums threads on other forums etc, any calibre can kill a deer, some just give you a bit more "room for error"

the 204 has accounted for a few as well, only head shots

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## veitnamcam

Yea the old man is a 22mag fan,hes shot plenty with it but then he has had a few cock ups too. He takes his 3006 in the roar :Wink:

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## JoshC

Shot my 1st deer with a 22mag, and plenty since..all within 20 metres. Critical that shot placement is perfect. 223 is my go to do everything calibre now.

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## sakokid

never shot deer with a 22mag but It deals to the goats.

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## Maca49

Shot plenty of goats with .22 and gutted a few other with 3006, .22hornet was good as well but lacked the range, my mate had a .222 so he got more than me!

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## 7mmwsm

> Dropped a spiker a few years ago with a 22 magnum in the ear 15 meters away standing side on, dropped him dead,  used 30 grain Winchester ammo , any one used similar or 17 Hmr ect


Why even suggest such a stupid idea?
The do gooders poke enough shit at the hunting sector now regarding animal welfare etc. Why give them any more fodder to throw back?
If you really need to prove yourself go try one on a Grizzly or Cape Buffalo.

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## Spudattack

> Why even suggest such a stupid idea?
> The do gooders poke enough shit at the hunting sector now regarding animal welfare etc. Why give them any more fodder to throw back?
> If you really need to prove yourself go try one on a Grizzly or Cape Buffalo.


Fully agree, as ethical hunters we owe it to our quarry to ensure as quick and painless death as possible.

Actively hunting medium game with rimfire calibres is completely irresponsible in my view.

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## R93

> Fully agree, as ethical hunters we owe it to our quarry to ensure as quick and painless death as possible.
> 
> Actively hunting medium game with rimfire calibres is completely irresponsible in my view.


It's not about bravado, it's about opportunity.
I don't skip around gayly thru the tussock looking to shoot deer with a .22 or the like but if I can see the buggers swede inside 50 yards when carrying one and I need an animal, it gets it. 
I back myself to clean shoot a deer with anything at that range. It doesn't care if the projectile is doing 3000 fps or 1200 fps when snotted in the head or neck.
I didn't mind the cash they lined my pockets with either.
The OP asked a question he didn't say its common practise for him. 
I personally can't see a difference when taking a clean shot what cal is used.
I have shot a shit load of deer with a .223
Spose that's irresponsible as well?



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## Gapped axe

Spiker I shot last Month was shot with a 22 whilst out possum shooting. Have shot a couple of deer with my 22k Hornet both 1 shot kills. Like R93 says don't go out intentially to shoot deer with the smaller calibres but if it happens it happens.

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## JoshC

Whats the difference between me shooting a deer with a 22 mag, and a number of home kill butchers that I know of shooting a cattlebeast with a 22 mag??

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## Spudattack

> It's not about bravado, it's about opportunity.
> I don't skip around gayly thru the tussock looking to shoot deer with a .22 or the like but if I can see the buggers swede inside 50 yards when carrying one and I need an animal, it gets it. 
> I back myself to clean shoot a deer with anything at that range. It doesn't care if the projectile is doing 3000 fps or 1200 fps when snotted in the head or neck.
> I didn't mind the cash they lined my pockets with either.
> The OP asked a question he didn't say its common practise for him. 
> I personally can't see a difference when taking a clean shot what cal is used.
> I have shot a shit load of deer with a .223
> Spose that's irresponsible as well?
> 
> ...


 I was responding to 7mmwsm's post, which is why my post says ACTIVELY PURSUE.

I come from a culture where these things are severely frowned upon, fair chase and using enough gun are drilled into you as part of ethical hunting, so no offence intended.

Personally i wouldn't use a 223 for anything bigger than a goat, but each to their own.

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## R93

> I was responding to 7mmwsm's post, which is why my post says ACTIVELY PURSUE.
> 
> I come from a culture where these things are severely frowned upon, fair chase and using enough gun are drilled into you as part of ethical hunting, so no offence intended.
> 
> Personally i wouldn't use a 223 for anything bigger than a goat, but each to their own.


I'm not offended at all. I have and will continue shoot animals how I please. We all have different standards and ethics and if they work for us individually that's all good. 
I personally think shooting an animal in the nut  with a .22 rim or centerfire inside 50yrds is way more ethical than blasting away at them at ranges where atmospherics and things out of your control are a given.
I can guarantee the meat butchers and tastes better as well.



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## Spudattack

> I'm not offended at all. I have and will continue shoot animals how I please. 
> I personally think shooting an animal in the nut  with a .22 rim or centerfire inside 50yrds is way more ethical than blasting away at them at ranges where atmospherics and things out of your control are a given.
> I can guarantee the meat butchers and tastes better as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


I agree, not a fan of shooting game out past 350ish either (also comes into the whole fair chase/is it hunting or shooting debate)
Happy to play at 1km on the range though for a bit of fun.

Not having a go at you re the .22, yes they will kill a deer, but probably not the best thing for a novice hunter reading this to be trying (let alone a .17) and great ammo for the antis to grab off a public forum.

My point is what if something goes wrong? With a cattle beast it runs around the yards a bit till you can give it another one. A deer you will probably never see again.

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## R93

> I agree, not a fan of shooting game out past 350ish either (also comes into the whole fair chase/is it hunting or shooting debate)
> Happy to play at 1km on the range though for a bit of fun.
> 
> Not having a go at you re the .22, yes they will kill a deer, but probably not the best thing for a novice hunter reading this to be trying (let alone a .17) and great ammo for the antis to grab off a public forum.
> 
> My point is what if something goes wrong? With a cattle beast it runs around the yards a bit till you can give it another one. A deer you will probably never see again.


Totally agree. We all need to know our limitations and employ them.
I have a young son just starting out hunting.
He turned down his first thar that he was perfectly capable of taking because he was unsure. He has set his standards. He will grow into some new ones as he gains experience.



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## PerazziSC3

> I agree, not a fan of shooting game out past 350ish either (also comes into the whole fair chase/is it hunting or shooting debate)
> Happy to play at 1km on the range though for a bit of fun.
> 
> Not having a go at you re the .22, yes they will kill a deer, but probably not the best thing for a novice hunter reading this to be trying (let alone a .17) and great ammo for the antis to grab off a public forum.
> 
> My point is what if something goes wrong? With a cattle beast it runs around the yards a bit till you can give it another one. A deer you will probably never see again.


Why does everyone always say "what if it goes wrong", in regards to taking animals with "inferior chamberings" you say it like things cant go wrong with a bigger calibre, they can go just as bad. What if you hit a deer in the nose with a 308, will be the same result/possibly worse than if you hit it in the nose with a .22. Facts are if you no your gun and your abilitys shooting deer with a 22/17/22mag etc is perfectly fine, no two levels of dead, dead is dead mate. I dont think you will find to many people actively pursuing deer with those calibres as it does limit you to what shots you can take. Same thing can be said for bow hunting, if you fuck the shot no matter what your weapon/calibre of choice is it aint going to end well for the animal.

Its like people put the majestic and elusive deer on a high pedestal, many people seem to have no problem experimenting shot placement, distance etc on goats but when it comes to the almighty deer suddenly its a different story  :Grin:

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## gimp

Well goats don't feel pain

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## Spudattack

> Why does everyone always say "what if it goes wrong", in regards to taking animals with "inferior chamberings" you say it like things cant go wrong with a bigger calibre, they can go just as bad. What if you hit a deer in the nose with a 308, will be the same result/possibly worse than if you hit it in the nose with a .22. Facts are if you no your gun and your abilitys shooting deer with a 22/17/22mag etc is perfectly fine, no two levels of dead, dead is dead mate. I dont think you will find to many people actively pursuing deer with those calibres as it does limit you to what shots you can take. Same thing can be said for bow hunting, if you fuck the shot no matter what your weapon/calibre of choice is it aint going to end well for the animal.
> 
> Its like people put the majestic and elusive deer on a high pedestal, many people seem to have no problem experimenting shot placement, distance etc on goats but when it comes to the almighty deer suddenly its a different story


Sure, i agree, in the same way as the exponents of small calibres always decide that those using a bigger calibre suddenly stop caring about shot placement!

I am not a huge fan of headshots either for the fact that they move so much and jaw shots are always possible.
A shot that creases the skull with a small calibre probably won't drop it and it will still be at full running health, a centrefire will render it unconscious.

I don't advocate bad shots on any species, even possums get head or chest shots.

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## ebf

> Well gimps don't feel pain


Fixed it for ya  :Grin:

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## gimp

> Fixed it for ya


We feel it, we just enjoy it

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## PerazziSC3

> Sure, i agree, in the same way as the exponents of small calibres always decide that those using a bigger calibre suddenly stop caring about shot placement!
> 
> I am not a huge fan of headshots either for the fact that they move so much and jaw shots are always possible.
> A shot that creases the skull with a small calibre probably won't drop it and it will still be at full running health, a centrefire will render it unconscious.
> 
> I don't advocate bad shots on any species, even possums get head or chest shots.


Yeah good point and that is typically quite true also (about people assuming that if you use a big magnum you dont care for shot placement) 
Im not an advocate for small calibres, i would much prefer to take my wsm out hunting then the 243, even take the 9.3 out sometimes. 

Was just saying that if i do come across a deer that i want to eat and i have a rimfire with me and the shot presents its self, im going to shoot it, i no the calibres limitations.

but the question on the thread was can you shoot reds with a 22mag or 17 etc, answer is YES, quite effectively.
Should you shoot deer with a 22mag? as r93 said we all need to know our limitations and employ them.

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## R93

I should really clear one thing up.
I do, at times, skip gayly thru the tussock. 
My rifle is always in the scabbard on my pack when doing so. Gotta be safe while skipping.
 Don't wanna have a wee woopsy should I miss a skip.


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## kiwijames

> I should really clear one thing up.
> I do, at times, skip gayly thru the tussock. 
> My rifle is always in the scabbard on my pack when doing so. Gotta be safe while skipping.
>  Don't wanna have a wee woopsy should I miss a skip.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


I would pay money to see you skip.

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## R93

> I would pay money to see you skip.


Ha Ha you wanker, you have witnessed my lack of co-ordination, so doubt my skipping ability.
If someone starts me off I can maintain it for a minute or so till I get tangled up.


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## 7mmwsm

> Why does everyone always say "what if it goes wrong", in regards to taking animals with "inferior chamberings" you say it like things cant go wrong with a bigger calibre, they can go just as bad. What if you hit a deer in the nose with a 308, will be the same result/possibly worse than if you hit it in the nose with a .22. Facts are if you no your gun and your abilitys shooting deer with a 22/17/22mag etc is perfectly fine, no two levels of dead, dead is dead mate. I dont think you will find to many people actively pursuing deer with those calibres as it does limit you to what shots you can take. Same thing can be said for bow hunting, if you fuck the shot no matter what your weapon/calibre of choice is it aint going to end well for the animal.
> 
> Its like people put the majestic and elusive deer on a high pedestal, many people seem to have no problem experimenting shot placement, distance etc on goats but when it comes to the almighty deer suddenly its a different story


Probably because as the caliber size goes down the chance of something going wrong usually goes up (Ask most soldiers who have seen action about their views on the 5.56 verses the 7.62).
You are right, dead is dead. The issue is how long it takes to get to "dead".
The comments on this thread/topic have all been very level headed. My first one was probably the most offensive. But it does concern me that some newbie is going to read this thread and presume that rimfire calibers are suitable for deer.

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## LJP

Ekkkkkk 22 Magnum on deer  :Wtfsmilie:  I sold my 22 hornet after neck shooting a goat at 100 yds with winchester factory ammo & had it run off screaming with a shallow splash wound. In perfect conditions I probably would but my personal imposed minimum calibre choice is 223.

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## sakokid

anything is better than a bow...even shooting at 350m

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## PerazziSC3

> anything is better than a bow...even shooting at 350m


explain?

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## DAF

> anything is better than a bow...even shooting at 350m


Your joking right?  :Have A Nice Day: 


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## Savage1

.17 HMR, .22 mag/LR capable of downing deer?
Yes.

Ideal?
No.

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## sakokid

man we could talk about this all night. I myself would not use a 22mag on deer. yes it could drop a deer, but that's what I have got my 7mm for. save the 22mag for possums, hares, rabbits, and the odd goat.

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## big_foot

One of the yarns my old man brought back from Africa was of an elephant poacher who was shooting them with a .22lr, he would wait for the beast to step forward with the front leg an pop one through the soft skin into a major artery and follow it till it bled out...

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## Barefoot

That poacher must've had bigger balls that the elephant to follow up a wounded one  :ORLY:

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## Spudattack

> That poacher must've had bigger balls that the elephant to follow up a wounded one


I have heard that story too, although the version I heard was it was an experienced PH doing it as a bet, think it may be a bit of an urban legend.

Karamoja Bell however did shoot and kill over 1000 elephants with a 7x57 Mauser with military ball ammo, do believe he wounded a shitload too!

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## veitnamcam

Its in one of a very popular African hunting writers books of a boy downing a elephant on the spot with a very lucky 22lr pill down the ear canal.
Not recommended from memory he got a hiding from the old man.

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## lloydcj

The suggestion was to get feedback on anyone who actually stalks deer to within 20 meters don't get bitchy if you ain't in the club and don't like the bush hunting, handle it

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## veitnamcam

Iv shot deer with 22lr 222 223 243 etc etc
Not knocking it but dont recommend it.
Allways wanted to touch a wild deer, got to within a hairs breath of slapping a hind two years ago close enough? I have seen fawns wild on public land I could probably have picked up but growing up on a deer farm knew to leave them the hell alone.

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## veitnamcam

> The suggestion was to get feedback on anyone who actually stalks deer to within 20 meters don't get bitchy if you ain't in the club and don't like the bush hunting, handle it


How many times could you have shot this humanly with any type of firearm?
I was carring a 308 of course and she wasnt on the menu.

Hind in NZ native forest. - YouTube

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## Neckshot

if you  touch  deer and write it on here the anti touch the deer tards will re school you on morals.............bunchof fucking high and artificially mighty cocks on here at times!.......were hunters......we kill.........ethicly or not its a dead aninal and there is a miss or gut shot just waiting to happen no matter what caliber .......keep that in mind.

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## Spudattack

I thought the discussion was carried out quite calmly with some good points on both sides,  the point of a forum is to discuss different people's opinions and views.
Sorry, didn't realise that expressing your opinion was getting high and mighty, will keep that in check in the future.

Only now afer 37 posts has it started to get a bit insult slinging.

lloydcj your original post said stuff all about enjoying bush hunting, to come and say that now is ridiculous.

Carry on boys, 22s on scrub bulls sounds great!  :Thumbsup:

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## deepsouthaussie

It trust many hunters out there having an oppurtunity present itself within 50 yards, a rimfire rifle in hand, would give it go (hopefully they know there rifle and own capabilities). In saying that probably not the best to encourage Joe Blogs to pick up his $50 plinkster and venture off into the Fiords to take down a Wapiti Stag.

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## bully

> How many times could you have shot this humanly with any type of firearm?
> I was carring a 308 of course and she wasnt on the menu.
> 
> Hind in NZ native forest. - YouTube


good skills in the video, you must more or less take deer when ever you want.

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## Maca49

Sat one day on one side of a toi toi with a spiker on the other side, could only see its tips so couldn't identify it for a shot, but only a few feet between us. It seemed to take for ages till he got a whiff and was gone. Good skills on that one Cam, there are times they earn their freedom

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## Timmay

Does anyone recommend me using spitwads on deer?

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## Pointer

Just because you've seen me do it doesn't mean you should, I'm pro. Stick to your slingshot

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## Timmay



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## R93

> Does anyone recommend me using spitwads on deer?


What Cal? You would maybe wanna have the flu as well, so the projectile can retain some weight.

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## veitnamcam

> good skills in the video, you must more or less take deer when ever you want.


Not quite !

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## lloydcj

Yeah your right spud, had a bad day and stand corrected, can't wait to get back to n.z. And take the 243 out again

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## Pointer

> What Cal? You would maybe wanna have the flu as well, so the projectile can retain some weight.


You don't need to tell Timmay, he was taught by the best. Here is a pic of us and the bros from our last trip, before we run out of spitwad toilet paper and went home. In this pic hes trying to stick one to the toilet roof, like in primary school

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## R93

Funny that. Just as I pictured you blokes :Thumbsup:

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## Neckshot

> You don't need to tell Timmay, he was taught by the best. Here is a pic of us and the bros from our last trip, before we run out of spitwad toilet paper and went home. In this pic hes trying to stick one to the toilet roof, like in primary school


fascinating!.......why would you put a giant dick and two large plums around your neck if you want to girls to see your lollies?.seams odd.

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## Pointer

> fascinating!.......why would you put a giant dick and two large plums around your neck if you want to girls to see your lollies?.seams odd.


Those aren't mere plums mate. They are the dried scrotums of men harder than you. Don't fuck with Timmay!  :Grin:

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## Pointer

In that photo you can see Timmays Actual pouch. What you can't see in that pouch is two balls of solid steel  :Grin:

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## Carlsen Highway

Why is that .22's are fine on goats but are unethical for deer?
In my experience anything that will kill a goat will kill a deer just fine; I think goats are harder to kill. And a big billygoat is much more tenacious of life than the average deer. Deer are easy to kill.
I wouldnt have a problem shooting a deer with a .22 magnum if I had the chance at less then 100metres, or a .22LR at less than 75 metres. Although I would have to think whether I would use solids or hollowpoints. 
Certainly I think I would put money on the guy with the .22LR making a more reliable kill than a chap with a bow at the same range...

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## PerazziSC3

A 22lr firing subs has approximately 95ft/lbs at 30 yards
My bow has about 60ft/lbs at 30

The bow cuts a 1 1/4 inch hole in the deer
The 22lr cuts a .22 inch hole...

Make of that what you want

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## veitnamcam

> A 22lr firing subs has approximately 95ft/lbs at 30 yards
> My bow has about 60ft/lbs at 30
> 
> The bow cuts a 1 1/4 inch hole in the deer
> The 22lr cuts a .22 inch hole...
> 
> Make of that what you want


And the arrow will cut that hole right threw .

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## Matt2308

This type of question and people's varying opinions come up regularly on forums and it's always interesting seeing different people's responses.

You can tell a lot about a persons actual experience and ethics by what they write!

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## Carlsen Highway

My point is you're not going to hit a deer reliably in the chest at 75 metres with a bow. Whereas with a .22 and a scope and a rested position I can put a bullet in the head or top of the neck. And it doesnt matter how big a hole the arrow makes - a .22LR normal velocity will go right through a deer skull at that range; it will shatter the bone stir the brain and exit. Money on the .22 guy. 
At 40 metres and less, then sure your bow is a devastating killer. But the .22 rifle will still do the job if you've got the shot, and if you've got the bowshot then you've got the .22 shot.
These are my thoughts on this matter. 

Ethics in NZ are not the same as in the United States, Africa or England and other places where they actually have some. We poison our animals with 1080. Our government enables chopper shooters with .223's and young chaps buy books about doing it.

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## GravelBen

> And it doesnt matter how big a hole the arrow makes - a .22LR normal velocity will go right through a deer skull at that range; it will shatter the bone stir the brain and exit.


Out of interest, how much margin for error is there in hitting a deer brain with a 22LR? I ask as once I had a young goat just stand there bleating at me after 3x 22mag rounds to the head at maybe 70m. It was incapacitated enough for me to walk up and cut its throat without it running away, but not a nice feeling making an animal suffer.

Checked my zero afterwards and it was shooting an inch to the right as I'd grabbed the wrong box of ammo, it didn't take much for me to have hit a bit far forward on the skull and missed the critical part of the brain.

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## PerazziSC3

ok by the sounds of your first comment i thought you meant taking a lung/heart shot on a deer with the 22.

A brain shot with any calibre is going to kill a deer carlsen, you dont need to explain how it does it haha

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## R93

> Out of interest, how much margin for error is there in hitting a deer brain with a 22LR? I ask as once I had a young goat just stand there bleating at me after 3x 22mag rounds to the head at maybe 70m. It was incapacitated enough for me to walk up and cut its throat without it running away, but not a nice feeling making an animal suffer.
> 
> Checked my zero afterwards and it was shooting an inch to the right as I'd grabbed the wrong box of ammo, it didn't take much for me to have hit a bit far forward on the skull and missed the critical part of the brain.


Not much if front or side on but looking away there is a larger margin for error height wise.

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## Bavarian_Hunter

You can club a deer to death with a stick, doesn't make it ethical. Leave the .22 for small game and break out the centre fires for reds.

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## Carlsen Highway

> ok by the sounds of your first comment i thought you meant taking a lung/heart shot on a deer with the 22.
> 
> A brain shot with any calibre is going to kill a deer carlsen, you dont need to explain how it does it haha



Perazzi, I only spelled it out because a bunch off people think that a .22lr will richochet off a deer's skull. but its not true.

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## sakkaranz

my 5 cents worth ...
good on you for having the confidence and ability to use such a small underpowered round 
BUT coming here and claiming "bragging rights" dosnt sit right with me

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## Carlsen Highway

> You can club a deer to death with a stick, doesn't make it ethical. Leave the .22 for small game and break out the centre fires for reds.


Now, you _say_ that, but I really doubt you could beat a deer to death with a stick. I mean, I really doubt it. It would be like trying to strangle one with your swanndri. I would take the .22 in a flash over the bow _and_ your stick or the swanny...

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## Carlsen Highway

> my 5 cents worth ...
> good on you for having the confidence and ability to use such a small underpowered round 
> BUT coming here and claiming "bragging rights" dosnt sit right with me


Are you talking to me? There are two other people on this thread who have killed over thirty - forty deer with a .22. As far as you know I havn't shot one! I was trying to help the OP with his question.

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## sakkaranz

> Are you talking to me? There are two other people on this thread who have killed over thirty - forty deer with a .22. As far as you know I havn't shot one! I was trying to help the OP with his question.


sorry was meaning the original post

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## R93

> Are you talking to me?


Watch yourself mate...............DeNiro is getting angry :Grin:

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> Now, you _say_ that, but I really doubt you could beat a deer to death with a stick. I mean, I really doubt it. It would be like trying to strangle one with your swanndri. I would take the .22 in a flash over the bow _and_ your stick or the swanny...


.22 over a bow? Mate I think that's a biiiig exaggeration unless you have genuinely no idea about what a bow is capable of doing.

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## Toby



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## R93

> .22 over a bow? Mate I think that's a biiiig exaggeration unless you have genuinely no idea about what a bow is capable of doing.


I am sure he is meaning in regards to a clean shot with a .22 at a sensible range. I agree. A clean shot from a .22 will immediately immobilise/kill a deer or the like. An arrow in most cases allows it to run off and bleed out.

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## PerazziSC3

I honestly dont get carlson highways point...
Anything to the brain will kill a deer, drop it on the spot, i could put a arrow in a deers brain and it would drop it on the spot. FACT

If we are comparing apples with apples you would need to compare the same shot placement e.g lung/heart. A bow is going to be FAR more effective than a 22lr.....

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> I am sure he is meaning in regards to a clean shot with a .22 at a sensible range. I agree. A clean shot from a .22 will immediately immobilise/kill a deer or the like. An arrow in most cases allows it to run off and bleed out.


If the only way to cleanly kill an animal with a certain weapon is to head shoot it then I think the question has been answered as to whether it is an ethical choice or not.  

who says you cant shoot a deer in the head with a bow?  :Grin: 

whitetail Head shot with bow - YouTube

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> I honestly dont get carlson highways point...
> Anything to the brain will kill a deer, drop it on the spot, i could put a arrow in a deers brain and it would drop it on the spot. FACT
> 
> If we are comparing apples with apples you would need to compare the same shot placement e.g lung/heart. A bow is going to be FAR more effective than a 22lr.....


+1

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## GravelBen

As a non-bow hunter I have no idea, what sort of accuracy do you get from a bow?

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## Carlsen Highway

All you ALL talking to me??
 you have to read my posts in context of what they were replying to.

I said, at 75 metres you cant kill a deer reliably with a bow because you cant hit the damn thing. I am well aware however that an arrow from a longbow will go through four inches of oak at 100 metres. My point is that I can still head and neck shoot a deer at 75metres with a .22 and he will expire with alacrity, whereas you cant hit it. So my money goes on the .22 shooter.

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## sakkaranz

:15 4 128: :


> Now, you _say_ that, but I really doubt you could beat a deer to death with a stick. I mean, I really doubt it. It would be like trying to strangle one with your swanndri. I would take the .22 in a flash over the bow _and_ your stick or the swanny...


having never beat any animal to death with a stick let alone a red deer can anyone here recommend the minimum weight of said stick .. the minimum diameter and if the type of wood used would make a measurable difference ?? and will i be expecting a one hit kill ??cave:

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## Carlsen Highway

> As a non-bow hunter I have no idea, what sort of accuracy do you get from a bow?


Outside of 40 metres they cant gaurantee anything. I have seen a goat shot straight through the heart at exactly 51 metres, a mighty fine shot and done with a longbow too.

 If someone put a gun to my head and said you have to kill that deer over there at 50 metres - right now - do you know what are you going to use - the .22 or the bow? Well, do you punk? 
I would volunteer for the .22.

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> All you ALL talking to me??
>  you have to read all of my posts in context of what they were replying to.
> 
> I said, at 75 metres you cant kill a deer reliably with a bow because you cant hit the damn thing. I am well aware however that an arrow from a longbow will go through four inches of oak at 100 metres. My point is that I can still head and neck shoot a deer at 75 metres with a .22 and he will expire with alacrity.


I doubt he'll go down so happily! I consider myself handy with a .22 but I wouldn't be confident of shooting deer in head from 75 m shot after shot. A slow, light projectile like that can be blown a mile by the wind over that distance and only needs to move a couple of inches if you are perfectly still to cause an agonizing death and not an instantaneous kill.

If you think people can't shoot with a bow out to that far you've never heard of Tm Wells my friend. This guy is my hunting idol.

New Zealand Tahr, Relentless Pursuit - YouTube

Classic Grizzly Hunt, Relentless Pursuit - YouTube

Kill of the Week 5 - Mid-Air Head Shots! (Argentina Hunt) - YouTube

Tim Wells -- Long Shot -- Hunting Alberta Mule Deer with Trophy Hunters Alberta - YouTube

Some go for a while so skip through if you want but there is good stuff in there, I have 6 of his DVD's at home

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## PerazziSC3

Quite accurate, only shoot groups at 20 and beyond or you start getting robin hoods, splitting arrows etc which gets expensive. 

Bow shooting has a lot more to do with the shooter than the bow, unlike rifle shooting where the rifle will typically determine how good the groups are.

Things start getting a lot harder when you get past the 35 yard mark with a bow, i personally only shoot game at 30 and under but other, much more experienced shooters would take deer at 50 yards or even further.

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> :
> 
> having never beat any animal to death with a stick let alone a red deer can anyone here recommend the minimum weight of said stick .. the minimum diameter and if the type of wood used would make a measurable difference ?? and will i be expecting a one hit kill ??cave:


I think there is a legal minimum deer beating stick calibre, you'll have to check on that with DOC  :Thumbsup:

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## Carlsen Highway

Deer beating stick minimum is .243 diameter, which in my view is just unethical. Might as well use a bloody .22

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## PerazziSC3

> Outside of 40 metres they cant gaurantee anything. I have seen a goat shot straight through the heart at exactly 51 metres, a mighty fine shot and done with a longbow too.
> 
>  If someone put a gun to my head and said you have to kill that deer over there at 50 metres - right now - do you know what are you going to use - the .22 or the bow? Well, do you punk? 
> I would volunteer for the .22.


and you can guarantee a kill form 22 out that far? well done champ.

i am by no means anti shooting deer with a 22 etc, i have done it and will continue to do it if the situation arises. I have also shot deer multiple goats and many other critters with the bow, have you?

To answer your question, i would choose the bow, i would take a lung shot and have a much larger margin for error and the likely hood of multiple shots presenting themselves, unlike with the 22.

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## Gillie

> Bow shooting has a lot more to do with the shooter than the bow, unlike rifle shooting where the rifle will typically determine how good the groups are.


I would say that bow shooting has a lot to do with the shooter. More so than rifle shooting - yes i agree. But in practical rifle shooting it is almost never the rifle that determines how good the groups are - it is the shooter.

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## PerazziSC3

yeah should have worded it a bit different. I guess what im trying to say is that if i gave a complete newbie a rifle that was zeroed at 100yards and gave no instruction and said shoot that x at 100yards chances are they would get pretty close. 
If i gave them a bow chances are they wouldnt even be able to draw the bow and get a shot off, let alone get the arrow anywhere near the target

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## Carlsen Highway

> and you can guarantee a kill form 22 out that far? well done champ.
> 
> i am by no means anti shooting deer with a 22 etc, i have done it and will continue to do it if the situation arises. I have also shot deer multiple goats and many other critters with the bow, have you?
> 
> To answer your question, i would choose the bow, i would take a lung shot and have a much larger margin for error and the likely hood of multiple shots presenting themselves, unlike with the 22.


Of course I can. So can you if you tried even just a little bit. Champ. And out to 75 metres, meanwhile, good luck with your stick and peice of string at 75. 
And yes, champ, I have done a lot with a recurve and a longbow.

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> Of course I can. So can you if you tried even just a little bit. Champ. And out to 75 metres, meanwhile, good luck with your stick and peice of string at 75. 
> And yes, champ, I have done a lot with a recurve and a longbow.


I have trouble taking anyone serious who tries to compare a .22lr and a 243.

I think you know that you are lying to yourself if you think you can hit a deer in the brain with every shot from a .22 and kill it everytime from that distance. I've mishit from closer distances on bigger calibres and hit perfect shots out to 550m but I'd never stand here and say I don't miss. 

Try the compound bow mate, can shoot a lot further a lot more consistently!

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## PerazziSC3

at what point did i say i was going to shoot anything with a bow at 75???? that would be "unethical" in my opinion, because i no the limit of my ability. Many animals have been killed at 75 and beyond with a bow, but by much more skilled archers and better hunters than myself.

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## Carlsen Highway

You never did, Perazzi, neither did I. I said you can't, but that you can kill a deer reliably at 75 metres with a .22 magnum with head and top of the neck shots. What there to dispute? 

Bavarian, the .243 is the minimum stick size for beating a deer to death with. 

Jesus you guys are hard work  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Bavarian_Hunter

> You can't Perazzi, but you can kill a deer reliably at 75 metres with a .22 magnum with head and top of the neck shots. 
> 
> Bavarian, the .243 is the minimum stick size for beating a deer to death with. 
> 
> Jesus you guys are hard work


I'm going to buy you a beer next time I'm in NZ, I've always wanted to shake the hand of a bloke who doesn't miss  :Beer:   :Thumbsup:

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## GravelBen

Where did he say he never misses? People can miss at 20m with a 308, doesn't mean you can't kill deer reliably with one.

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## sakkaranz

:15 8 212: maybe bavarian hunter and carlsen highway need to get a room...

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## Gibo

> maybe bavarian hunter and carlsen highway need to get a room...


or over it  :Have A Nice Day:

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## lloydcj

Just to bring a variation to the forum, has anyone shot and killed deer with buckshot, I fired 4 shots with a 12 gauge pump with 3 inch buckshot, at 3 hinds close together from 70 meters and got nothing, is this the norm?

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## PerazziSC3

Haha im going to stay out of this one....

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## veitnamcam

At 70m that's probably quite normal  :Grin: 

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Toby

> Just to bring a variation to the forum, has anyone shot and killed deer with buckshot, I fired 4 shots with a 12 gauge pump with 3 inch buckshot, at 3 hinds close together from 70 meters and got nothing, is this the norm?


Be a bit far maybe? I've only used it on a turkey at 50m, 3 shots only one pellet in it.

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## gimp

> Just to bring a variation to the forum, has anyone shot and killed deer with buckshot, I fired 4 shots with a 12 gauge pump with 3 inch buckshot, at 3 hinds close together from 70 meters and got nothing, is this the norm?




lolll

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## gimp

> You never did, Perazzi, neither did I. I said you can't, but that you can kill a deer reliably at 75 metres with a .22 magnum with head and top of the neck shots. What there to dispute? 
> 
> Bavarian, the .243 is the minimum stick size for beating a deer to death with. 
> 
> Jesus you guys are hard work


There's a certain aggressive lack of reading comprehension

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## Carlsen Highway

> If the only way to cleanly kill an animal with a certain weapon is to head shoot it then I think the question has been answered as to whether it is an ethical choice or not.  
> 
> who says you cant shoot a deer in the head with a bow? 
> 
> whitetail Head shot with bow - YouTube



My Bavarian Australian mate rings up an salient point here - if the only shot is a head shot then is it an ethical choice? 
I think the answer is that within the range you can reliably do that then the answer is yes, but the question limits the full answer - a high neck shot will kill them just as dead. I know a couple of guys who have killed deer with chest shots with .22LR (not magnum) one was through the side behind the leg and it slipped through the ribs, the other fired from diagonally from the rear and it went behind the ribs and forward through the lungs. The .22 bullet will penetrate quite a long waysince its going so slow, especially solids. People would be suprised I think.
But I think we can agree that a .22 magnum on deer is best left to experienced chaps.

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## R93

> Just to bring a variation to the forum, has anyone shot and killed deer with buckshot, I fired 4 shots with a 12 gauge pump with 3 inch buckshot, at 3 hinds close together from 70 meters and got nothing, is this the norm?


Seriously? If so, yup, its the norm. I have killed and seen a few shot, with buckshot. TBF 20-25m max, for any real consistency at all. Thats down to pattern. A pellet would kill a deer at 70 if it sconed it, but as you found out it is unlikely. :Have A Nice Day:

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## R93

I can count quite easily how many deer and the like animals I have body shot in my life. Is a head shot ethical? Meat shooting demanded it if you wanted to get paid.

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## gimp

I like headshots. I think I've only ever fucked up 2.

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## gimp

I shot a rabbit at 76 meters with #4 shot once

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## gimp

> I shot a rabbit at 76 meters with #4 shot once


I ranged it because I was like, nah, that didn't just happen

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## Barefoot

> Just to bring a variation to the forum, has anyone shot and killed deer with buckshot, I fired 4 shots with a 12 gauge pump with 3 inch buckshot, at 3 hinds close together from 70 meters and got nothing, is this the norm?


#6 is good, but only on headshots and only if you don't want the head  :Wtfsmilie:

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## Pengy

Maybe Carlsen would like to inform this guy about how in accurate bows are for hunting
The dove bow hunter. - YouTube

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## veitnamcam

That's impressive.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Matt2308

Target shot at 60m. 
After fitting the drop away rest to my compound bow, this wasn't an uncommon grouping for me at this sort of range.  
I was practicing probably 3 evenings a week at the time and shooting the club competitions regularly. 
I stopped shooting at the same target dot at 20m because this got expensive!

Modern compound bows are incredibly accurate!
It is still down to the person behind the weapon to know their own personal limits though. 

A deers head is the most animated part of its body, it is the target with the smallest margin for error.  Even with a large centrefire, it's the target I least like to shoot at. 
Between the shooter making the decision to fire, and the bullet striking the target, the deers head can be a couple of inches away from where it was when the bullet was sent down range.
If a soft lead .22lr or .22 magnum round connects at anything less than an almost ideal angle with anything, it will ricochet and in my early days of trying to head shoot foxes with the above rounds, I heard the bullet do this on quite a few occasions, thus being the reason I started chest shooting them with the .22 instead. 
As I have gained more experience, both my shot selection and ethics have changed.  Their are occasions when I still take head shots on deer, but for me the .22 has way too small a margin of error. 
To each, their own!

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## Dundee

looks like ya missed a few with all those holes :Grin:

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