# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Should movie stars be allowed to outsource personal responsibility?

## T.FOYE

From Baldwin's tweet he seems to believe that checking firearms is somebody else's job...

Getting handed a loaded gun is a unfortunate. That's happened to me and i'm sure its happened to many who have worked in the firearm industry. Customers used to courier in loaded guns every now and then. Its a dick move yes, but that's the reason we treat all guns like they're loaded. Are there separate gun laws for movie stars and for plebs in the USA?
I fail to see him as blameless here. He's had lots of training so he should know to clear the gun and not to point it directly at anyone...

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## dvk-kp

It was his finger on the trigger

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## 40mm

There were three people at fault there.

The star for not che king it himself.
The person who passed it to him.
And the person who had it pointed at her, she should have also checked.

Nobody here seems to have ever heard of that other actor who got shot on set...

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## Rush

> From Baldwin's tweet he seems to believe that checking firearms is somebody else's job...
> 
> Getting handed a loaded gun is a unfortunate. That's happened to me and i'm sure its happened to many who have worked in the firearm industry. Customers used to courier in loaded guns every now and then. Its a dick move yes, but that's the reason we treat all guns like they're loaded. Are there separate gun laws for movie stars and for plebs in the USA?
> I fail to see him as blameless here. He's had lots of training so he should know to clear the gun and not to point it directly at anyone...


I get what you're saying, but the job of checking the firearm belongs literally with the set armourer. The nature of the business means firearms WILL be routinely pointed in the direction of other people, and fired. It's the armourer's job to make sure that happens safely.

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## scotty

> Are there separate gun laws for movie stars and for plebs in the USA?
> .


dont worry the lawyers will be feasting on this for a long time (the only winners here).....the cops will likely charge baldwin and the prop guy , months will pass copious amounts of money will change hands and eventually everyone will carry on ......except the poor woman who died and the bloke that got wounded and their families.....

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## Rushy

It has happened previously and it will no doubt happen again.  We would check thoroughly no matter which of the positions we were in but clearly there are many that would not.

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## gundoc

Definitely the fault of the set armourer who has total responsibility for the firearms and blank ammunition on set. Actors, by and large, are nothing more than presentable monkeys who perform as the script instructs them. I have had a fair bit to do with some of them over the years while performing the duties of set armourer, and neither worldly intelligence nor common sense is the forte of many of them.

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## scotty

> Actors, by and large, are nothing more than presentable monkeys .


i like this description........pretty well sums it up

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## Danger Mouse

> i like this description........pretty well sums it up


Nz herald is reporting 2x UD on the set before this happened. Armourer needs to be held responsible

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## 40mm

> Definitely the fault of the set armourer who has total responsibility for the firearms and blank ammunition on set. Actors, by and large, are nothing more than presentable monkeys who perform as the script instructs them. I have had a fair bit to do with some of them over the years while performing the duties of set armourer, and neither worldly intelligence nor common sense is the forte of many of them.


Totally.
BUT, everyone including the dumb bastards out there know all about 'Murphy's law' and that old saying "if it can happen, it will happen"

I reckon the armourer is rightfully going to get the whip for this. But everyone else who touched that gun or had it scripted to be pointed at them is a dam fool for not personally checking it.

Just another example of shit happening.

Poor lady. Hope it was quick.

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## T.FOYE

It seems that although screen armourers take a noble approach in trying to assume total responsibility, they in fact do not. 

Found on another gun forum:

Here is the Screen Actors' Guild (SAG) safety bulletins and guidelines. These are the standards crew and actors are held to on a set. There is a specific section for firearms. It has the obvious rules of gun safety and a bit more. This is the first statement of the entire document:

"AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY AND THE SAFETY Of YOUR FELLOW CAST MEMBERS. Production management and crew are responsible for creating and maintaining safe conditions, but it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety."

Here is an excerpt from the Actor's Equity Association page on gun use on set. This association is the union for the actual actors, and Alec Baldwin is a confirmed member:

"Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside."

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## T.FOYE

Intetesting huh. Im glad they put the these rules in place, they seem to be working great. A production team can literally walk off set 6 hours (in disgust) and the senior management claim they didnt know??? How is that possible either? How does that make them look MORE responsible in how they were overseeing things?

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## XR500

One would hope that despite all the layers of safety (supposedly) in play, the judge and jury focus on the trgger finger, and who it belonged to.

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## Finnwolf

Could all stunt guns not be ‘pinned’ across the chamber so that only blanks can inserted - not longer live loads?

Or is that too simplistic?

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## gundoc

I guess the Screen Actors Guild guidelines take precedence in the current case. My experience in that field is limited to NZ.

Modifying guns is generally only done in the case of semi-automatic and fully-automatic firearms to get them to function with blanks, usually by the addition of a bore restrictor to generate back pressure. Locked-breech semi-auto pistols are quite drastically modified to achieve reliable functioning. Conventional bolt, lever, pump, and revolver firearms are usually left untouched.

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## ishoot10s

Apparently the armourer had placed 3 guns on a bench outside the set. At least one was loaded live for use for a particular effect in a scene. She may have then left them unattended but that's unclear.  An assistant directer came off the set and fetched one back onto the set and gave it to Baldwin with the words "cold gun". Unclear if they started shooting the scene or if Baldwin just gave the trigger a pull while fiddling with it.

1. Ultimately the armourer is at fault for not supervising the selection of the gun, or not tagging it as live or some such. 
2. The Ass Director contributed negligence by not checking the gun, or not checking with the armourer which gun she had prepped for the scene and for giving Baldwin the impression it was "cold" (unloaded).
3. Baldwin should have checked that he had the correct gun for the scene and not taken the Ass Directors word for it.

At least one, possibly all three of them, will face Involuntary Manslaughter charge I reckon.

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## 40mm

> Could all stunt guns not be pinned across the chamber so that only blanks can inserted - not longer live loads?
> 
> Or is that too simplistic?


That would ruin a whole shit load of fine firearms. Most theatrical armourers have very nice collections.
Be a total shame to vandalise them for the sake of the stupid.

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## 40mm

> Apparently the armourer had placed 3 guns on a bench outside the set. At least one was loaded live for use for a particular effect in a scene. She may have then left them unattended but that's unclear.  An assistant directer came off the set and fetched one back onto the set and gave it to Baldwin with the words "cold gun". Unclear if they started shooting the scene or if Baldwin just gave the trigger a pull while fiddling with it.
> 
> 1. Ultimately the armourer is at fault for not supervising the selection of the gun, or not tagging it as live or some such. 
> 2. The Ass Director contributed negligence by not checking the gun, or not checking with the armourer which gun she had prepped for the scene and for giving Baldwin the impression it was "cold" (unloaded).
> 3. Baldwin should have checked that he had the correct gun for the scene and not taken the Ass Directors word for it.
> 
> At least one, possibly all three of them, will face Involuntary Manslaughter charge I reckon.


You are forgetting the dead woman, she was also at fault for not checking the thing. 
I would not let anyone point one at me without checking it myself first, and personally handing it to them.

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## Larskramer

I work in the movie/film industry. Have seen enough blanks causing damage let alone live ammunition. That's what post vfx houses are for.... creating a real looking muzzle blast, recoil etc.

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## chainsaw

Why would you have live rounds on the set ?

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## Dama dama

> Why would you have live rounds on the set ?


Exactly what I have been thinking.

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## Kopua Cowboy

Baldwin has been outspoken enough about firearms- he can get stuffed. My sympathies are with the dead and injured.

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## gundoc

> Why would you have live rounds on the set ?


Sometimes live rounds are fired to film impacts etc. but usually on an empty set. Many years ago live rounds were fired just in front or behind actors by marksmen but modern editing and special effects have eliminated that practice!

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## Sh00ter

> Why would you have live rounds on the set ?



Latest reports/rumours are that ‘the’ gun, a Colt pistol, was used by crew for target practise during down time and that live and blank ammunition were stored together on set. If thats true its absolute insanity.

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## scotty

> Baldwin has been outspoken enough about firearms- he can get stuffed. My sympathies are with the dead and injured.


yup in the news "baldwin has been  public opponent of the NRA" ......translated: anti gun activist..... and here he is trying to make a living off the gun violence of american history....so hopefully we will see baldwin , the assisstant director the armourer all charged but it wont end there expect to see civil lawsuits lodged against them all and the production co and anyone else some high priced lawyer can think of

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## Fawls

What I dont understand is why he shot the production crew? I would have expected an actor he was supposed to shoot at in the script that would have been hit.

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## Barefoot

Possibly a scene of him coming out of a building and shooting towards the "screen".

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## zimmer

> What I dont understand is why he shot the production crew? I would have expected an actor he was supposed to shoot at in the script that would have been hit.


A M E R I C A ?

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## kidmac42

Its all a little odd to me.. a gunhater starring in a film using firearms, who actually shoots and kills someone on set.
All I'm waiting for now is, when he turns around and blames the gun.

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## vulcannz

> yup in the news "baldwin has been  public opponent of the NRA" .


Duh... NRA... National Rifle Association... everyone knows pistols are safer.

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## techno retard

Typical of America's blas'e attitude towards firearm security/safety.

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## Finnwolf

> That would ruin a whole shit load of fine firearms. Most theatrical armourers have very nice collections.
> Be a total shame to vandalise them for the sake of the stupid.


My possibly ignorant thought is: Why use the genuine/valuable firearms when theres so many replicas out there?

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## Mistral

> Definitely the fault of the set armourer who has total responsibility for the firearms and blank ammunition on set. Actors, by and large, are nothing more than presentable monkeys who perform as the script instructs them. I have had a fair bit to do with some of them over the years while performing the duties of set armourer, and neither worldly intelligence nor common sense is the forte of many of them.


This.
It's the Armourer & Safety's job to make sure it's safe. End of story.
Please don't think of this like some abstract hunting trip gone bad. The Actor may have never seen a firearm in their life before. That's why it's called acting.

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## Sh00ter

The whole thing just seems like a shit show all around.

https://news.yahoo.com/details-revea...115955055.html

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## dogmatix

I'm trying to picture the Andy McNab trained actors: Rob De Niro, Val Kilmer, Tom Sizemore, Wes Studi, Al Pacino, or Director Michael Mann making the same f**k up on the set of Heat in 1995.

Or purely computer generated FX muzzle flashes, flying brass and impact hits making the movie look as good.



Nah, just can't see it happening.

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## Micky Duck

on radio today the last accidental shooting was mentioned...aparently that one was caused by a projectile lodged in barrel previously (unchecked) and a blank was fired behind it!!!!

comment of armourer being bit unsure about loading blanks.......once they inside cylinder the shape matters not...so they could EASILY be made completely different looking...crimped like ramset even....
its a sad day for effected families which ever way you look at it.

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## gsp follower

actors can be no more trusted with guns that teenage boys with condoms :O O: :

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## Ranger 888

Maybe Alec Baldwin was set up by a crew member who had problems with the woman that was shot??

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## scotty

> Maybe Alec Baldwin was set up by a crew member who had problems with the woman that was shot??


sounds like a hollywood movie plot..... will probably turn it into a movie to recover the costs of all the lawsuits coming

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## ishoot10s

@dogmatix Friggen great movie, watched it for about the 10th time a couple days ago. The massive shootout was inspired by the real Phillips & Matasareanu one in North Hollywood.

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## Ultimitsu

> There were three people at fault there.
> 
> The star for not che king it himself.
> The person who passed it to him.
> And the person who had it pointed at her, she should have also checked.
> 
> Nobody here seems to have ever heard of that other actor who got shot on set...


On a movie set, where you could have lots of actors shooting at lots of other actors - sometimes both ways - and you may have several retakes to get it right, it probably is not feasible to get every actor to check every gun and every round in every mag. They will have to rely on some specialist to check instead. I am not saying it is the best practice, just saying these are practical concerns.

Also, not every actor who acts with a gun is necessarily a firearm owner and user. if there was a live round in a gun by mistake, it could be just as dangerous to rely on someone who do not what they are doing to identify and remedy the situation.

It is for this reason when you fly Jetstar, they do not let you inspect the plane. You rely on some aviation technical whom you do not know and never met to make sure the plane is airworthy.

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## T.FOYE

I've just never seen anywhere in any firearm code where any shooter (be it licensed or operating under supervision) doesn't retain a large responsibility 
for safely handling that firearm. Sure, there's liability for the safety staff, but that's a separate issue. 

I think that he will face a jury who haven't seen all this 'its not his fault, he's just an actor' angle. 
I can see the cops handing out charges in a 360degree pattern. 

-Failed to personally clear the weapon (as seems to be required of him personally by law in New Texas, and industry standard operating procedures)
-Didn't keep his finger out of the trigger guard as trained on multiple film sets.
-Failed to hire sufficiently experienced safety staff in his capacity as co producer
-Failed to act on the serious safety breaches in his capacity as co producer 
-Failed to report staff for plinking and bringing live ammunition to his site (if they can prove he knew which wont be too hard if he was aware).

I reckon he's going to get eaten alive by lawyers (my 2c). Not a lot of wiggle room in those questions for his defense team.

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## Russian 22.

> I'm trying to picture the Andy McNab trained actors: Rob De Niro, Val Kilmer, Tom Sizemore, Wes Studi, Al Pacino, or Director Michael Mann making the same f**k up on the set of Heat in 1995.
> 
> Or purely computer generated FX muzzle flashes, flying brass and impact hits making the movie look as good.
> 
> Attachment 182173
> 
> Nah, just can't see it happening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAOl...hannel=jaicban

extra loud blanks made HEAT a great movie.




> @dogmatix Friggen great movie, watched it for about the 10th time a couple days ago. The massive shootout was inspired by the real Phillips & Matasareanu one in North Hollywood.


those guys really needed to work on their accuracy. I read they shot 1000 rounds down range and they still got clapped.

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## ishoot10s

> I read they shot 1000 rounds down range and they still got clapped.


They swallowed a ton of Matasareanu’s epilepsy pills to steady themselves before the robbery. That came back to bite them or Phillips at least who prolly wasn’t used to the drug, and he started to lose the plot. But they still managed to cause a lot of damage to property and vehicles and certainly injured a lot of police and civilians. If nothing else, that drama resulted in a lot of PD’s rethinking armed response and they tooled up big time in the aftermath.

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## JessicaChen

Apparently the same gun used on set was also used by the crew for recreational target shooting off set. Both live rounds and blanks were present on set because of this recreational activity. The armorer is an incompetent nepotism hire. There are multiple layers of utter failure that occurred in this incident.

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## 300CALMAN

If he is also a producer I would say his goose is cooked, also the argument about years of experience and if true about being used with live rounds, well he would be expected to know that also. 

This type of firearm accidents shouldn't happen. But they do.

Maybe we should think about this one next time we pick up a firearm,  never hurts to contemplate what can go wrong occasionally.

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## Russian 22.

> I'm not sure that you could call the armourer a nepotism hire, small industry and all that.  But for whatever reason definitely didn't prep for the rehersal.  The camera crew walked off set that morning pissed off about accommodation and expenses/conditions apparently so the entire project was a cock up from the get go, schedules not being followed and all sorts of stuff out of sync to what should have been happening.  It's possible that the gun was fully prepped for a different sequence and the cluster with the crew walkoff that morning threw everything out so much that the rehersal wasn't meant to be happening and the armourer wasn't in the loop.  Either way, loaded/operational guns shouldn't have been left like that without being guard dogged, and shouldn't have been picked up without passing through at least two sets of safety inspections (once when picked up, once by actor when handed over).


it was nepotism, she is the daughter of a famous (In movie circles) armourer and had only done a year or two of experience under him and had expressed doubts about her own competency.

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## Cordite

> Apparently the same gun used on set was also used by the crew for recreational target shooting off set. Both live rounds and blanks were present on set because of this recreational activity. The armorer is an incompetent nepotism hire. There are multiple layers of utter failure that occurred in this incident.


Maybe something to it.  Certainly not the gun safety culture you'd get if more people on the set were safety-trained gun owners.  An interesting take here on how "divided America" may have been unhelpful leading up to this accident:




The relevant part about 2 minutes in.

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## WallyR

I find it interesting that Baldwin, because of his A list status, depends on underlings to keep him from making mistakes.
IMHO - if you're the one in control of the trigger, YOU are ultimately responsible for the consequences of pulling the trigger.
I agree that having live and blank ammunition on the same set has the makings of a disaster.
Whatever the crew's after work activities are with the studio guns - live round plinking for example - those rounds should not have been on an active filming set.
As co-producer/manager, Baldwin is ultimately responsible for the safety/actions of the whole crew.
'I didn't know" isn't going to cut it in American Court's.

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## Allgood

I am betting that 'Blaming the Gun' wont work...........which means that 'Blaming the person or persons' will result in lots of lawyers making lots of money due to the amount of 'stupid' shown by those present.........

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## Got-ya

> There were three people at fault there.
> 
> The star for not che king it himself.
> The person who passed it to him.
> And the person who had it pointed at her, she should have also checked.
> 
> Nobody here seems to have ever heard of that other actor who got shot on set...



Bruce Lee's son I think. Brandon

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## Micky Duck

armourer has just come out and said "has no idea where they got loaded rounds from,the whole set was becoming unsafe"

another  post said the crew were plinking away between shoots......hmmmmm makes a fella wonder what went on.

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## 300CALMAN

> armourer has just come out and said "has no idea where they got loaded rounds from,the whole set was becoming unsafe"
> 
> another  post said the crew were plinking away between shoots......hmmmmm makes a fella wonder what went on.


And that the firearms were locked up at lunchtime and in the evenings. Did someone else have a set of keys?

Still it would seem strange if she didn't know this was going on.

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## Sh00ter

Will Smith shows how its done.

https://youtu.be/UELwDUEl1Po

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## rugerman

lol shit my opinion of Will just went up

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## A330driver

….as sad as this situation is….. Baldwin is an arsehole…. Anti-gun advocate for years….. if he’d taken the time to learn firearm safety this may of not happened 

I have a mate who works on these movie sets,… sparky,chippee,jack of all trades…has worked this stuff for 30 years.He was telling me the previous crew,armorers etc walked off this job,…. Safety issues,poor practices etc….. the new lot considered scabs!!!…..Baldwin has a history of poor mgt decisions,his self importance is a joke

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## kiwi-adam

Not a fan of Baldwin either, but as much as a lot of people are suggesting he is to blame, here is another way to look at it.

I don't know what the rules / laws are in the US.
However, if it had happened in NZ, the first think I would be asking is, was he licensed?
It has been stated, he is an anti-gun advocate, so for the sake of this argument, lets assume he wasn't licensed.

In NZ, you are allowed to use a firearm unlicensed if you have a licensed person with you. The licensed person is responsible for anything you do with that firearm.

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## 300CALMAN

> Not a fan of Baldwin either, but as much as a lot of people are suggesting he is to blame, here is another way to look at it.
> 
> I don't know what the rules / laws are in the US.
> However, if it had happened in NZ, the first think I would be asking is, was he licensed?
> It has been stated, he is an anti-gun advocate, so for the sake of this argument, lets assume he wasn't licensed.
> 
> In NZ, you are allowed to use a firearm unlicensed if you have a licensed person with you. The licensed person is responsible for anything you do with that firearm.


From whichever perspective regarding personal responsibility with firearms, being the producer who hired an inexperienced person who then stated they were uncomfortable with the role is likely to be the big issue here. A bit like a Person Conducting a Business or Undertaking PCBU under worksafe. Unless you can divorce yourself of responsibility in the US (i doubt it), you will wear some part of the blame.

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## A330driver

Quote…. However, if it had happened in NZ,…….. well Adam ,it’s not in kiwi

2ndly…… the fact is ,this was a poorly run,managed operation either way you look at it.The carelessness,and attitudes either for a kiwi or yank run operation were poor at best……… either way ,a women lost her life!!!

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## A330driver

According to my mate…. To be the “Armourer”… requires no “real” licence…. .. other than previous experience,word of mouth,previous positions with other projects etc……. I found that hard to believe me ,but he assured me this was the case….. this position requires no degrees,licenses,titles,etc etc etc…… I still trying to find out if that’s correct or not

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## ishoot10s

So the armorers law team is suggesting a livey somehow ended up in a box of dummy rounds. Interesting that the livey just happened to be one of those grabbed to be loaded, and then go into the chamber that went under the hammer, what are the odds...? Next there will be a theory that there was tension between the AD and someone else on set and that he slipped the livey in before he gave the gun to Baldwin... This'll make a classic whodunnit movie one day...

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## A330driver

The whole thing is such a joke ..,there’s a liar in every corner

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## Finnwolf

> So the armorers law team is suggesting a livey somehow ended up in a box of dummy rounds. Interesting that the livey just happened to be one of those grabbed to be loaded, and then go into the chamber that went under the hammer, what are the odds...? Next there will be a theory that there was tension between the AD and someone else on set and that he slipped the livey in before he gave the gun to Baldwin... This'll make a classic whodunnit movie one day...


OR: create a conspiracy theory! :Thumbsup:

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## A330driver

NB…. Kiwi-Adam… apologies if my post came across as being a ..”cock”… not implied… .my post was not to insinuate anything

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## Danger Mouse

> .as sad as this situation is.. Baldwin is an arsehole. Anti-gun advocate for years.. if hed taken the time to learn firearm safety this may of not happened 
> 
> I have a mate who works on these movie sets, sparky,chippee,jack of all tradeshas worked this stuff for 30 years.He was telling me the previous crew,armorers etc walked off this job,. Safety issues,poor practices etc.. the new lot considered scabs!!!..Baldwin has a history of poor mgt decisions,his self importance is a joke


Yes, thd hypocrisy of the antis is common. Don't like this because I don't understand it. Baldwin clearly doesn't understand safe handling, here cook doesn't even understand what makes up a bullet. Willfully ignorant and on a crusade

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## Danger Mouse

That's meant to be hera cook. Forum having a tantrum and not letting me edit.

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## 2post

I wonder if he would have taken a little more care if he was handed a razor sharp sword or asked to drive a car for a stunt, he would have asked for some training for those.

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## TeRei

Watch this space more law suits will happen against Mr Baldwin which might make him bankrupt unless he was covered by insurance. A civil suit does not allow off loading of liability against the plaintiff especially from the deceased's family. Mr Trump will be grinning.

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## T.FOYE

The lawyer for the directors assistant came out and stated that checking firearms was in fact NOT in his contract..... oops. Wasn't that AB's entire argument? By blaming Hall, he deferred the blame away from the armourer. Kinda leaves just him....

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## Preacher

There were/are actually news stories going around where Baldwin was being set up by NRA /Trump supporter types.  
Funny that I only saw them a couple days ago and now can't find links.

Almost like those media outlets realized how ridiculous that is.

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## T.FOYE

oh yeah i saw some of those. BS stories about somebody trying to sabotage the movie. Only a cockroach lawyer could create such crap! This is the same thing as Brandon Lee on 'the crow' i reckon. 
The prop department will have been making blanks from real ammo (to make it look real) and they've stuffed up and missed one. Nobody will have been out 'plinking'. 
Not without everyone on the set knowing because its in the middle of nowhere. Nobody has said people were out taking target practice so far except for media speculating. 

Yet all this attention is happening because of Baldwins 'political views' according to his brother. Could it be because his personal laziness cost a person's life? I'm thinking that's actually it  :Slow:

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## Three O'Three

To my understanding prop guns are supposed to be blank firing guns. Why was he handed a live firing gun?

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## T.FOYE

Its safe to assume that Baldwin himself approved the use of a real single action, real pistol over using CGI.

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## Barefoot

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainmen...ll-the-trigger

Looks like it was one of those self firing and aiming guns we hear about.

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## imaca

It was a western film so I assume it was a single action in which case he'd have to pull the hammer back first.  Hard to do accidentally

Big mother of an assumption though

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## Gamehunter

Sounds a bit like Bill Clinton.

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## rugerman

That was what I was thinking too. Western film so should be revolvers so how down a revolver with the hammer down suddenly fire. Will be very easy for the authorities to check to see if the gun can cock it's own hammer and then discharge without the trigger being pulled. Sounds like he's trying to dodge any blame.  




> It was a western film so I assume it was a single action in which case he'd have to pull the hammer back first.  Hard to do accidentally
> 
> Big mother of an assumption though

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## A330driver

Quote..Yet all this attention is happening because of Baldwins 'political views' according to his brother. Could it be because his personal laziness cost a person's life? I'm thinking that's actually it 

Bingo!!

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## GDMP

> To my understanding prop guns are supposed to be blank firing guns. Why was he handed a live firing gun?


In fact many firearms used for movie productions are real,live firearms......just loaded with blank ammunition instead of live rounds.

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## GDMP

> Not a fan of Baldwin either, but as much as a lot of people are suggesting he is to blame, here is another way to look at it.
> 
> I don't know what the rules / laws are in the US.
> However, if it had happened in NZ, the first think I would be asking is, was he licensed?
> It has been stated, he is an anti-gun advocate, so for the sake of this argument, lets assume he wasn't licensed.
> 
> In NZ, you are allowed to use a firearm unlicensed if you have a licensed person with you. The licensed person is responsible for anything you do with that firearm.


The rules here are of no consequence as it was not here.....it was over there.Where you have essentially 50 different sets of laws depending what state you happen to be in at the time.If it was in the SouthWest then likely no license of any sort was required for anyone on the set,as the laws are generally very gun-friendly in that part of the USA.

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## Preacher

> That was what I was thinking too. Western film so should be revolvers so how down a revolver with the hammer down suddenly fire. Will be very easy for the authorities to check to see if the gun can cock it's own hammer and then discharge without the trigger being pulled. Sounds like he's trying to dodge any blame.


That is EXACTLY what he is now saying "I didn't pull the trigger, it just went off".  

What's not surprising is none of the MSM seems to be openly calling that bullshit.  Instead they are praising his latest emotional interview for it's honesty.

He's fucked.  Probably not criminally fucked but civil litigation wise he is going to get gang banged.

Can't say I will shed a tear.  Except for the young kid now motherless.

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## JessicaChen

Call me crazy, but it is looking more and more like intentional homicide by Baldwin from what I can see. The also scene never required a gun to be pointed at anyone or shot in the first place.

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## Allizdog

https://youtu.be/bbTJtme0p8A

It gets to the subject at hand at 4:20.

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## JessicaChen

> https://youtu.be/bbTJtme0p8A


Never knew about this channel, videos seem good. Will watch. Also Kyle did nothing wrong.  :Have A Nice Day:  
The Baldwin stuff starts at 4 mins 20 seconds if people want to skip the Kyle memes.

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## imaca

The hypocrisy, stupidity and double standards of the media never fails to surprise me.

In the on going saga of the shooting by Alec Baldwin we have this line in the Herald from the Associated Press




> a gun held by actor Alec Baldwin killed a cinematographer


Nowhere ever have I seen the media blame the weapon for killing someone, sure they demonize certain types of firearms but here they really seem to be trying to deflect blame away from one of their celebrity darlings.  It’s almost as if the media is trying to influence the narrative rather than report on it.  Who’d have thunked it!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertain...IZSSFT26M33M4/

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## scotty

> It’s almost as if the media is trying to influence the narrative rather than report on it.  Who’d have thunked it!


if only american media had the credibility the NZ media has.................. :ORLY:  :ORLY:  :ORLY: 
 baldwin and his  supporters want us to believe he is a victim ......of all the things he is , victim and stupid are 2 things he is not  . he shot and killed 1 person and injured another.....it was not self defence  at best it was involuntary manslaughter....but hey its america it may get to trial in 2023 or 2024  the lawyers will keep the gravy train rolling as long as they can

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## rugerman

I see the armourer is now suing the supplier of the ammo, for supposedly supply live rounds along with the blanks.

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## 300CALMAN

> I see the armourer is now suing the supplier of the ammo, for supposedly supply live rounds along with the blanks.


 :Wtfsmilie: 

So they just loaded them and didn't check the pointy ends? I am pretty sure the pointy ends look different. But I guess if you can outsource liability, why wouldn't you. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/enter...th/9193268002/

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## T.FOYE

Theres no way its intentional homicide i reckon. 
But thumbing a hammer on a faulty gun whilst knowing it was faulty. Its extreme negligence. Going around misdirecting the narrative by stating he didnt pull the trigger..  that's perverting the cause of justice i feel. So is organising sympathetic interviews so he can platform his defence by media. Its discusting to watch. I have to admit he is an excellent actor and this is his award winning performance

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## A330driver

Quote: that's perverting the cause of justice 

. Something that Baldwin has done for years

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## scotty

an update for those who missed it 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainmen...afety-failures

baldwins take on it now......."he was pointing the gun at Hutchins at her instruction on the New Mexico set of the Western film when it went off without his pulling the trigger."
very much along the lines of anti gun type people  blaming the "evil" gun for its role as the slayer of good people.......
this tragedy will be baldwins longest acting role if he pulls it off there might be an oscar in it for him  ....... as long as can girlie  slap the host

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