# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  30-223 build

## kimjon

Hi

You can never have enough unfinished projects on the go at any given time :Wink: 

So this is my latest endeavour; a 30-223 (or 30TCU or 30Apache or whatever you want to call it?), if you've heard of a 300Whisper (or one of the many clones) you'll know what the hell I'm talking about? If not, then it's a pretty cool little round which is made by necking up a .223 case to accept a .308 bullet.


Pic of the 30-223 next to its parent case the .223rem

The 30-223 punches above its weight in supersonic (a little faster than a 7.62x39) and best of all it can be loaded to shoot subsonic with heavy pills that ''go all day'' retaining much of its energy right out to realistic shooting ranges i.e. at 200m it will have way(!) more energy than its parent calibre the .223 would have.

So build to date:



Take one very shot out .223 Weatherby rifle


Strip it down and put it in a box with a heap of goodies to bolt together to make a rifle

And thats about as far as I've got hahaha...but don't worry there will be more to come....

kj

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## LJP

Looks like a fun project & probably quite an effective close range rifle as well. I had a marrage with a 300 whisper on a TC carbine years ago & found it very effective with 125gr TNT's or NBT's for supersonic & 240gr Matchkings for subsonic. Subsonics accounted for many, many animals but but expect to double tap as anything other than a headshot will have them run a long, long way unless bones are broken. Keep us posted  :Thumbsup:

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## kimjon

Thanks for the tips, I'd be keen to hear more on the subsonic side of things and any experimenting you (or others) have done? 

I've been down the Whisper road before about 6 years ago and found similar findings, i.e no real bullet expansion on the 240SMK's so animals reacted as if being hit by an arrow and ran away to bleed to death. This was no big deal, I'd just sit down after the shot and give them time (5 minutes) to go into shock and die. Usually I'd find them only 20-50m away DOA after that time, but if you immediately chased them they could go hundreds of meters.

However I was kind of hoping that with the popularity of subsonic cals the projectiles may have advanced or people had tried different things to get better results?

If anyone reading this has got any tips or tricks I'd be keen to hear them?

kj

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## madjon_

How about mag length?
L/R  75 Amax 80 Targex .223 50, whisper case,110 VMax,125 Targex,180,240,240prog,240 whisper. CZ mag 223/ whisper

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## kimjon

Hi Madjon, thanks for you input.

In my case the Weatherby action I'm using is a medium action so I could seat the bullets out as far as I wish too, as this action will take a full house .308win case with room to spare. In the AR15 format OAL is a concern, hence why the 300Whisper has gained more of a following than the 30-223.

Its a little hard for me to tell, but are those bullets in your photo 7.62x39 or are they 30-223? If they are 30-223 could you share some load data with me please, as finding it on the net is proving elusive?

Many thanks

kj

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## madjon_

30.223,I only necked them up(using my 300 whisper dies) to see how the length was.
whats the twist on that axle? :Grin: 
Howa action,should have gone to specsavers

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## kimjon

> 30.223,I only necked them up(using my 300 whisper dies) to see how the length was.
> whats the twist on that axle?
> Howa action,should have gone to specsavers


1:8 trueflite barrel.

Yeah the weatherby/howa is a bit "clunky" and heavy but it's solid and a proven performer in longrange builds. Not that this will be used for longrange though haha

Kj

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## LJP

Kimjon,
This recently sparked my interest again in subsonics in 300 whisper 

Lutz Mller .300" Whisper Unterschallpatrone

I can't speak german but they look very, very interesting. Shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on some of these.

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## kimjon

> Kimjon,
> This recently sparked my interest again in subsonics in 300 whisper 
> 
> Lutz Mller .300" Whisper Unterschallpatrone
> 
> I can't speak german but they look very, very interesting. Shouldn't be too hard to get your hands on some of these.


Somehow after ''reading'' that website I've now convinced myself that I can speak German (I can't) because I kind of understood what was going on. Yes very, very coooool!!! I picked up some of the best info I've ever seen in that article, many thanks for providing the link.


kj

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## gimp

Should do a .300AAC

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## Spanners

> Should do a .300AAC


I have 15k brass coming over to convert to 300AAC/ Whisper (and a few more barrels)
Its just a Whisper thats been sent to SAAMI
168gr @ 2k isnt bad, 125s good GOOD
Soon as this bloody punch arrives I can knock some expangin 200-240gr out....18 months and counting...

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## madjon_

> Somehow after ''reading'' that website I've now convinced myself that I can speak German (I can't) because I kind of understood what was going on. Yes very, very coooool!!! I picked up some of the best info I've ever seen in that article, many thanks for providing the link.
> 
> 
> kj


Try the Google translate tool gets more interesting

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## kimjon

I took the day off work today to play with this build and managed to get heaps of stuff done, including a little shopping.

Progress to date:


Burris scope, Weaver bases, B-Square extra-low rings, Mini over barrel suppressor and a packet of 240gr SMK's projectiles.


Trueflite 1:8 Barrel fitted and head spaced to action/bolt, end of barrel threaded 1/2''x28tpi


The mag well has room to spare with the spacer block removed, however the feed rails didn't go back past the spacer block so they needed to be milled longer to allow the back of the brass case to sit up enough for the bolt to be able to collect it on the forward stroke.


Finally I just did a dry fit to see if it will all work, some minor issues to solve...but all in hand.

Next will be to fit a new stock as the factory Weatherby stock is ugly as sin! Whoever designed it should be beaten with a pillow case full of door knobs!

kj

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## gimp

What's the info on that can?

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## kimjon

> What's the info on that can?


It's a bit of an unknown? 

All steel construction and made for a colt heavy barrel AR15 with a 1/2"x28 thread. It's only about 10" long and comes back about 4" over the barrel. It weighs 450g.

I banged a clip of .223 through it (before boring it out) and it worked as good as any other suppressor I've ever used.

I had it line bored to suit the .30cal for this project... Hope it works?

Kj

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## Normie

That's the sort of can I'd be after. Not too long.

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## Wildman

6" forward is still quite long.

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## Normie

Sorry meant overall length. Thinking about it 10" is still pretty long.

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## kimjon

Haha; being a typical male I may have over estimated its size :Have A Nice Day: 


Its only 8'', with 4'' sitting forward/back of the barrel

I put a magnet inside it to try and remove a little bit of swaf left in there rattling around from the machine process of enlarging the hole to suit a .30cal projectile...but it must be made from Stainless Steel as it was non-magnetic.

kj

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## Normie

:Thumbsup: 

8" is about ideal. Keep up the good work. Interested to see how you get on with the rest of the build.

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## Wildman

Looks like a Waitaki engineering one?

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## gimp

It would be stamped on the front if it was.

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## JCHUNTER

Hey Guys

What is the general effective range of subsonic ammo on medium game. Deer etc. 

Remington now make a factory 300AAC Blackout which you can buy factory ammo for. Has anyone had any experience of this gun/ammo?

I have watched a number of videos of subsonic/suppresed rifles and it is hard to tell how loud they are. What is the inside word from the guys that have them?

JC

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## 7mmsaum

Psssssssssssssssst   Thud

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## P38

> Psssssssssssssssst   Thud



What sort of example is that for all the young fellas on here 7mmsaum

Kids remember ..... Guns and alcohol dont mix   :Wink:

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## 7mmsaum

:Have A Nice Day:

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## kimjon

> Hey Guys
> 
> What is the general effective range of subsonic ammo on medium game. Deer etc. 
> 
> Remington now make a factory 300AAC Blackout which you can buy factory ammo for. Has anyone had any experience of this gun/ammo?
> 
> I have watched a number of videos of subsonic/suppresed rifles and it is hard to tell how loud they are. What is the inside word from the guys that have them?
> JC


I saw those rem 300blkouts, tempting???

Anyway, the sub .308cal type rifles are maybe a little louder than say a sub-sonic .22lr, but in that ball park. The ''wack'' of the bullet hitting the target is much louder than the report coming from the rifle barrel.

Only negatives I can say is that they shoot like a rainbow (about the same trajectory as a .22lr), and they ricochet like bastards with the big 240gr SMK projectiles!!!

They are a lot of fun, I've only shot a few animals with mine...but I was picking away some goats at about 60-80m the other day and they had no idea where I was and what was happening, then they walked towards me (frightened by the ''wack'' of the bullets behind them). My brother was about 200m away and he never heard a thing.

Hope that helps?

kj

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## kimjon

Just remebered that I had this video of it:



Enjoy; but be careful as after watching it you may want one? haha

kj

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## Vapour

The problem is not so much hitting something but stopping it.  Most bullets wont open up very well at subsonic speeds.  I think you need to be very close like less than 50 yards.  And this helps lesson the rainbow trajectory also.  Anything sub-sonic is very quiet with a suppressor.




> Hey Guys
> 
> What is the general effective range of subsonic ammo on medium game. Deer etc. 
> 
> Remington now make a factory 300AAC Blackout which you can buy factory ammo for. Has anyone had any experience of this gun/ammo?
> 
> I have watched a number of videos of subsonic/suppresed rifles and it is hard to tell how loud they are. What is the inside word from the guys that have them?
> 
> JC

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## Tuidog

Reviving an old thread.  What was the end result here?
Curious as have seen a 30-223 pop up for sale in Tasmania( I live in SA)

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## Cordite

> The problem is not so much hitting something but stopping it.  Most bullets wont open up very well at subsonic speeds.  I think you need to be very close like less than 50 yards.  And this helps lesson the rainbow trajectory also.  Anything sub-sonic is very quiet with a suppressor.


If that's OK for deer is the bar set too low, all in the name of sound suppression?  I recall a thread on this forum about using FMJ ammo on large animals, an idea that did not go down with everyone.  Seems a good idea, at least by comparison.

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