# Outdoors > Photography and Video >  Cameras

## R93

I am a useless photographer and I am thinking of spending money on a lost cause in the hopes I at least improve.
For those of you's in the know would the canon EOS 100D be a good entry level DSLR?
Any suggestions on a better camera.
Value for money I think the Canon may be the go?


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## Gibo

Get this instead. Great entry level SLR at $200 cheaper. EDIT: sorry didnt check lense cost. This site is good to compare though

Nikon
Nikon D90 -Digital system camera - Lowest price, test and reviews

Canon
Canon EOS 100D + 18-55/3.5-5.6 IS STM -Digital system camera - Lowest price, test and reviews

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## R93

I can get the canon for under 9 hundy with 2 lenses. 18-55 and a 55-250
That Nikon price is minus any lens?


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## Gibo

> I can get the canon for under 9 hundy with 2 lenses. 18-55 and a 55-250
> That Nikon price is minus any lens?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks like it, mate to be fair you can get a mean deal on Trademe. I got a Nikon with a good lense for $200 all it needed was a $35 new battery cover. Guy thought it wasnt worth doing so didnt bother pricing it up.

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## R93

I will keep an eye out for a good deal.

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## initiaz

did u see my post today.. b4 ur post.. good deal for entry level b4 spending on a better gadget

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## square1

I would consider the 1100D too Canon EOS 1100D + 18-55/3.5-5.6 -Digital system camera - Lowest price, test and reviews. I've found that DSLRs tend to hold their value pretty well so if you find you hate it you can always move it and not lose too much money. I would set a budget and find the best deal within that bracket. If you Google Canon DSLR vs Nikon you'll get more results than you would bother reading. I went with Canon and I haven't regretted that at all, the range of lenses is great and being quite popular there is a reasonable second hand market too. 

I would suggest going to a camera store and handling some of them, some have more intuitive button placement, better SD card placement, even the positioning of a power switch is nicer on some than others. Things like megapixels don't necessarily equate to great photos so don't get talked into anything by any sales people. You'll be alarmed at the quality of a picture even taken on auto mode with a DSLR compared to your standard point and shoot, even on the entry level models. 

It might be a good idea to start with an entry level model while you work out what settings do what and how to make them all work for the photo you're taking at any given time, and then upgrade when you know what you're doing.

One more thing, since I bought a couple of new lenses (a 50mm prime and a fisheye) I haven't once used my kit lenses. If I were starting over, I would consider buying a 'body only' which as you may have guessed doesn't come with any lenses, and buying the lenses separately. The quality of a kit lens isn't usually very close to the sort of lens you would buy on it's own. I guess it's like the house branded scope that might come with a firearm package, it'll do the job but people aren't climbing over each other to get their hands on one.

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## kiwijames

Dave look into the Micro 4/3 camera. They have a bunch of benefits like the SLR with lens interchangeability. Most are mirrorless and more compact too. 
You are also not that bad a shot behind the camera. The Olympus PEN and E-M series are the front runners here.

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## GravelBen

The Canon vs Nikon SLR choice basically comes down to which you prefer the feel of, there are some differences in features but neither is really any better than the other. Just like a rifle, handle the options before deciding. Often there is a compromise between smaller/lighter models being easier to chuck in your pack and carry, vs the bigger chunkier ones feeling better in the hand and being nicer to actually take photos with.

I have an old Nikon D80 which has done well over the years but is nearly due for replacement now. Nikon are a bit funny with updates, they overlap the new model with the old one for a while before they drop the old one. But basically for that equivalent model they went D80 > D90 > D7000 > D7100.

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## Maca49

Buy a body then go to a class and learn a bit about photography and different gear before you buy lenses, i have a Cannon and would do the same again, purchase lenses off t/me

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## R93

Thanks fellas. Ton of useful info there.
I have not got my heart set on any particular make or model but want a good camera that will be forgiving.
I seen a little waterproof Nikon on tele here in OZ that had interchangeable lenses. Waterproof to 40m?!


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## Maca49

Go for the best for you SLRs can be a pain in the arse because of their size, technology is changing so fast theres probably better options for you, find the expert in the trade

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## sneeze

Dont bother unless your going to get serious about it. Judes got a olympus E 410 with some nice lenses you can have a play with. I cant get the value out of it and even though its very compact for a DSLR its still lot to carry compared to a mega zoom compact like the canon sx500 .

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## Maca49

Or an iPhone!

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## R93

Forgot about your neat little camera.
No, I doubt I will get to serious taking pics. I do like the idea of being able to control my shutter speed beyond what a little compact can.



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## GravelBen

The biggest advantages of an SLR are IMO control and responsiveness. You can get better image quality as well, but compact cameras are getting closer in that department these days.

You push the button, the shutter goes click instantly - none of that push the button and wait... wait... wait... click, by which time the thing you were taking a photo of has probably moved.

Obviously to get full advantage from the extra control you need to understand at least the basic principles of it, but its not that hard. And most SLRs still have auto modes for when you can't be bothered. An SLR won't turn a crap photographer into a good one, but if you have an interest and learn how to use it then you will get better results.

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## Raging Bull

> Dave look into the Micro 4/3 camera. They have a bunch of benefits like the SLR with lens interchangeability. Most are mirrorless and more compact too. 
> You are also not that bad a shot behind the camera. The Olympus PEN and E-M series are the front runners here.


+1

Love my Panasonic GX1, pretty compact, great for traveling... not a pain in the ass to carry around like a big clunky DSLR.

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## square1

> The biggest advantages of an SLR are IMO control and responsiveness. You can get better image quality as well, but compact cameras are getting closer in that department these days.
> 
> You push the button, the shutter goes click instantly - none of that push the button and wait... wait... wait... click, by which time the thing you were taking a photo of has probably moved.
> 
> Obviously to get full advantage from the extra control you need to understand at least the basic principles of it, but its not that hard. And most SLRs still have auto modes for when you can't be bothered. An SLR won't turn a crap photographer into a good one, but if you have an interest and learn how to use it then you will get better results.


The shutter speed had me sold once I experienced it, so many surfing pictures missed with what I considered a pretty good point and shoot.

it's all just light control, and balancing (or unbalancing for cool effect) the light. I struggle more with composition than anything!

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## kiwijames

One thing I never knew was that the (D)SLRs only have a limited life in the shutter. My old man had one shit itself very early (Canon) and it was an expensive fix. Hence the mirrorless being a big advantage.

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## GravelBen

Most of them are rated to at least 100,000 clicks now (and usually go way beyond), and I think sub-$100 to replace the shutter if you do manage to wear them out. Older models might have been different though.

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## Gillie

> I am a useless photographer and I am thinking of spending money on a lost cause in the hopes I at least improve.


What do you want to be able to do with a new camera? Do you want to get into shooting in RAW and post processing? Do you want it for animals? Do you need additional zoom? Do you want the HD video function? Do you want to learn about ISO, F-Stop, shutter speed, histograms, filters, composition, post processing, apeture/shutter speed priority, focus layering, high dynamic range, low light, starscape, tripods?

What don't you like about your pictures now? Where do you think a DSLR will help you improve?

How hard are you on gear? Will it need to be waterproof? Light weight? Do you want to carry multiple lenses?

I brought a Canon 55D three years ago. That has done me great and nearly 20,000 shots and quite a few videos later i am still learning. I am a whole lot better than i was though. Most of that improvement i put down to practice. 
One thing i do know is it is never the camera that takes a great photo... it is the photographer. The camera mostly just improves the technical quality.

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## Spoon

Definetly look at mirrorless/compact system cameras. Most have the same size sensor as common DSLR (APS-C) but are way more compact than DSLR. And they still have interchangeable lenses

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## Maca49

We were saying today that the 3 of us that own SLRs at work hardly ever use them 
, except for portraits. Better friendlier options avail

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## Spoon

Would you say Mirrorless are better and friendlier?

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## Maca49

35 mm film is really better but who cares anymore! :36 1 11:

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## Spoon

Hmm I'm not quite old enough to know how good 35 mm film is  :Psmiley:

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## Maca49

Hahahahahahahahaha  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Pengy

Good reply Logan. That told the old bugger

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## GravelBen

> We were saying today that the 3 of us that own SLRs at work hardly ever use them, except for portraits. Better friendlier options avail


Depends on the individual I think - for some people it isn't worth getting an SLR but I'm currently plotting an upgrade from my ~10yr old SLR to a newer, better one and there is no way I would even consider going back to a compact/in-between kind of thing. Horses for courses, right tool for the job and so on. I stick to a mid-range SLR because I enjoy photography but still carry it up hills, pro photographers use 1kg+ monsters that can take incredible beatings all day every day and never miss a shot, for others a compact that gets pulled out for the odd snap does the trick, some people just take selfies with their phone.

I guess you could make a comparison with rifles - someone who only ever hunts in the bush won't get any advantage from a 7mm superkickassmagnum with fussy load development, slippery bullets, big scope etc and will just get annoyed about carrying the extra bulk. But a long range shooter will be just as annoyed by having to use an open sight SMLE or Norinco JW103 with cheap factory ammo!

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## deepsouthaussie

I've got the base model Nikon D3100.  I'm slowly learning how to turn my good photgraphs into great photographs. There is alot more you can achieve with an SLR camera if you have to motivation to learn how to actually use them. My wife hates our camera because she wants to just point and shoot a 'great' photgraph. Sorry love, you've gotta work for it.

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## The Claw

> Dave look into the Micro 4/3 camera. They have a bunch of benefits like the SLR with lens interchangeability. Most are mirrorless and more compact too. 
> You are also not that bad a shot behind the camera. The Olympus PEN and E-M series are the front runners here.


+1 to this. I have a big full frame DSLR, takes beautiful photos thats for sure, but its bloody heavy and big... Hence why I am selling it and have bought a Micro 4/3 camera to replace it. I have a Olympus OMD EM-1. Weather sealed with either a 12-40 or 12-50 kit lense. With an ultrawide lense (9-18), 12-50 lense that I got with it, and the body, it takes up less room and weighs less that my full frame body on its own... I think it takes as good, if not better photos that my full frame camera (i'll put some up at some stage if I remember). I am going to get a 40-150 zoom lense for it, apparently it is a great lense with image quality well above its price. The Olympus PEN series would be well worth looking at as well as they are significantly cheaper than the one I purchased. I was looking for the weather sealing and to replace a full frame camera so coughed up for the EM-1...

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## ChrisF

Claw ,

Does your camera have a ability to use a wire less remote ?

Cheers  Chris

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## The Claw

Yes,  I believe so... Camera has its own private wireless network  so can connect to it with a smart phone using the Olympus app. Can then have live view, control camera function, transfer and edit photos etc. Quite a cool app... 

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## 10-Ring

You're better off buying good glass for a DSLR than buying a more expensive camera. The cameras devalue so quickly because of changing technology. Lenses, well there's not too much to change and they hold their value extremely well. The cheap kit lenses you get with a lot of DSLR kits are basically pretty low quality with plastic mounts and some even have plastic lenses inside. Always try and buy good glass and that doesn't always mean a lens with a fast aperture unless you have a specific need for it.

Nikon vs Canon. Personal choice, one is no better in the other and depends on what particular feature you like on either. The same applies to their lenses. Canon is more common in NZ and Oz because they have a larger network here. In Europe, Nikon is probably more common. In North America, Canon is more common.

If you want to use your camera out hunting then I would suggest a really top quality point and shoot such as the Canon G10, G11, G12 or similar. Superb little cameras with very high quality lenses. You'll get sharper, truer colours and overall superior image quality with one of those than a DSLR with a cheap kit lens. Also to get one of those little tripods that clamp around branches. 

Just my 2 cents worth after forty plus years of photography, some of it professional.

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## K95

Has anyone looked at Nikon AW1? Water and shock proof. Looks like a camera for me, hard to kill.

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## 10-Ring

> Has anyone looked at Nikon AW1? Water and shock proof. Looks like a camera for me, hard to kill.


They look like a hell of a lot camera for the money and perfect for hunting and fishing. Thanks for bringing it to our attention TB. Think I'll have to get one.

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## K95

After a new set of feet for the ute, I'll be getting one too. 400fps slow motion etc sounds like the biz.

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