# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  Help in Nelson

## 308jase

Hi Guy's

I'm fairly new to clay bird shooting and have been learning a lot lately (thanks for Sunday mikee)

My 10yr old son and I joined a local club to help us learn to shoot, I bought him a Mossberg 20g super bantam pump on advice (he started on a 410 at age 8) but it turns out that the pump gun is frowned upon at the club and he is losing interest because he only gets to shoot a couple clay's between everyone else's rounds  (waiting for all day  to shoot a couple of targets is a bit much for a 10yr old,....... thanks advice!) There have been some great people there and I thank those who have taken the time to show us the ropes and offer up their time to help our shooting.

Now my dilemma is I have been offered a great  deal on a new over and under 20g from Hayes and Associates but I need the stock cut down for it to fit him,
Can anyone suggest somebody in the Nelson area to cut the stock down and perhaps offer some advice on correct fit?

PS. Anyone wanting a near new Mossberg super bantam in 20g with 3 chokes and I think 3 spacers let me know, (will put it on TM this weekend)
Cheers,
Jase.

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## veitnamcam

I have a saber saw? :Grin: 

 @mikee will be along soon no doubt

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## mikee

I can only give you a few pointers on stock fit but Neil would be your man as far as fitting goes.  

Really only the lop can be easily altered anyway. How does his pump fit?

I would suggest get it home and have a look.  Happy to pop round or you can come here if you want a rough idea

Kiwi Greg might be the best man to help with the actual cutting? Electronics Technicians and Welders are not known for delicate power tool operation eh VC  :Wink:

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## 308jase

[QUOTE=veitnamcam;259338]I have a saber saw? :Grin: 

 Hahaha....and I have a concrete saw........that and tidy it up with an axe is about as good as it gets with me and working with wood :Grin:

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## Maca49

Cutting the stock down will unbalance the gun, I did a .22 for my son when he was thirteen, but really need to either weight the stock by drilling it and filling with lead, which adds to the overall weight of the gun, or cut down the barrel which you probably won't want to do with a shotgun. I just cut it off with a fine tooth blade on a drop saw. I kept the off cut which has now been reattached and looks fine.
Can you get a youth size gun?

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## Spook

> Cutting the stock down will unbalance the gun, I did a .22 for my son when he was thirteen but really need to either weight the stock by drill it and filling with lead, which adds to the overall weight of the gun, or cut down the barrel which you probably won't want to do with a shotgun. I just cut it off with a fine tooth blade on a drop saw. I kept the off cut which has now been reattached and looks fine.


I read that wrong the first time.

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## veitnamcam

> Electronics Technicians and Welders are not known for delicate power tool operation eh VC


Yup but fitters are renound for it :Wink:

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## Maca49

I'll forgive you, deaf and blind! :Cool:

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## Maca49

> Yup but fitters are renound for it


F off don't pick on my trade, welder :Thumbsup:

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## 308jase

> I can only give you a few pointers on stock fit but Neil would be your man as far as fitting goes.  
> 
> Really only the lop can be easily altered anyway. How does his pump fit?
> 
> I would suggest get it home and have a look.  Happy to pop round or you can come here if you want a rough idea
> 
> Kiwi Greg might be the best man to help with the actual cutting? Electronics Technicians and Welders are not known for delicate power tool operation eh VC


Hi mikee,
His pump has three spacers and fits real good, plan was to take that measurement and make the new gun the same........but I have been known to fuck things up in the past  :ORLY:  so thought I would get some advice first........yup thought of Neil......

I will get the gun home and between the genius pool that exists here in Nelson I'm sure we can come up with something! (that doesn't mean you and you're sabre saw cam  :Psmiley: )

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## veitnamcam

> F off don't pick on my trade, welder


Since when has welding been a trade?

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## Maca49

Your right I never saw it as one :Thumbsup: fitter,turner and machinist has a lot nicer ring :ORLY:

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## Toby

fitter welder is a trade isn't it?

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## mikee

> Yup but fitters are renound for it



Oh no hope I didn't offend you with the wrong job title just that some of the fitters in the port have a set of "fitting hammers" . One guy even had an "adjustable hammer"  And I have watched them "fitting" stuff

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## Maca49

Get on the deep end Mikee! You know you position :Thumbsup:

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## veitnamcam

> fitter welder is a trade isn't it?


yes.

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## Maca49

Just!

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## mikee

> Hi mikee,
> His pump has three spacers and fits real good, plan was to take that measurement and make the new gun the same........but I have been known to fuck things up in the past  so thought I would get some advice first........yup thought of Neil......
> 
> I will get the gun home and between the genius pool that exists here in Nelson I'm sure we can come up with something! (that doesn't mean you and you're sabre saw cam )


I would suggest having look, I know roughly what it should "look' like  and then let him try and smack some clays with it if its not to far off. Some of the guys you were shooting with on Sunday could probably help with fit too.

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## 308jase

> Cutting the stock down will unbalance the gun, I did a .22 for my son when he was thirteen, but really need to either weight the stock by drilling it and filling with lead, which adds to the overall weight of the gun, or cut down the barrel which you probably won't want to do with a shotgun. I just cut it off with a fine tooth blade on a drop saw. I kept the off cut which has now been reattached and looks fine.
> Can you get a youth size gun?


Hi Maca,

Yeah I know it will unbalance it some what but if it fits it will be better than not being able to shoot at all!
Yep will keep the piece of stock and add it back to it as he get's bigger, and no I cant find a youth size  stock  in NZ :Sad: 
He was having a go on a 12g the other day and apart from the whole gun being too heavy he was doing ok....even managed to hit a couple of clays.....he was super stoked :Thumbsup:

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## veitnamcam

> Oh no hope I didn't offend you with the wrong job title just that some of the fitters in the port have a set of "fitting hammers" . One guy even had an "adjustable hammer"  And I have watched them "fitting" stuff


None taken, big difference though, one is a 40min practical test of one type of welding and the other is 8000hrs of practical training and courses.

And the technical term for adjustable hammer is "Knockometer"  :Grin: 

Also accepted would be "Rhythm  stick" or "welcoming handle"

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## 308jase

Holy crap! 

These threads fall apart faster than I can type.....hahahahahaha!

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## Maca49

Being a shotgun it should be lighter hopefully in the barrels, you could put a hook on the butt plate to catch some of the weigh under the arm, if it doesn't interfere with the swing

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## Maca49

> Holy crap! 
> 
> These threads fall apart faster than I can type.....hahahahahaha!


Bloody tradesmen! :XD:

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## mikee

> Hi Maca,
> 
> Yeah I know it will unbalance it some what but if it fits it will be better than not being able to shoot at all!
> Yep will keep the piece of stock and add it back to it as he get's bigger, and no I cant find a youth size  stock  in NZ
> He was having a go on a 12g the other day and apart from the whole gun being too heavy he was doing ok....even managed to hit a couple of clays.....he was super stoked


Wait till we get him out with us!!  You might need share in clay target and ammo factories. New traps hous supposed to be going in today too

 This might help with the gun fit thing, more along the showing you what to look for in "fit"

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## Maca49

Muzzle control!

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## 308jase

> Wait till we get him out with us!!  You might need share in clay target and ammo factories. New traps hous supposed to be going in today too
> 
>  This might help with the gun fit thing, more along the showing you what to look for in "fit"


Yeah my brother was out there today (carting rocks) and saw the retired gentleman with the new delivery!

I have watched that one before and it helped me, but I will still take you up on your offer and bring the gun around when it gets here.

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## Ground Control

What discipline of " Clays " is your son shooting ?
Trap , Skeet , Sporting  ?
Why is the pump frowned upon .
If its the Nelson Waimea gun club you have joined , then things must have changed a lot over the last 10 years .

Ken

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## 308jase

> What discipline of " Clays " is your son shooting ?
> Trap , Skeet , Sporting  ?
> Why is the pump frowned upon .
> If its the Nelson Waimea gun club you have joined , then things must have changed a lot over the last 10 years .
> 
> Ken


Hi Ken,

He took a real shine to the skeet but the whole reason we joined is to learn to shoot better and he is only ten, apparently pump guns were ok but now they prefer an auto.

He had a single 20 but it kicked like hell, so we went looking for a gun that we could shoot at the club and hunt with safely....seemed like a pump gun was a good compromise at the time.

We have only joined recently so things may have been different, Some of the guy's we have met up there have been great but rules is rules!

Never mind, now I get to buy a new gun  :Thumbsup:  (I think it's how women feel when they buy shoes!)

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## Spanners

There is no 'rules' regarding pumps etc
I have shot my best round of skeet 24/25 with a pump gun. 1st time on a pump ... Can't replicate it...
Chris 'fatty' Skully would clean up most shooters on NZ on a clay field with a pump gun. 
I've seen him shoot skeet, trap and ball trap with one as a pisstake and beat most there .
Unfortunately some clay clubs are lead by geriatrics that are blind to anything else
Unless the club rules state no pumps when you joined then crank away! 
Most shoots at our club 30% would be using pumps.
Mate of mine Eli can fire a pump gun quicker than I can an auto!! And it boots 5x as much as my auto and he will put box after box through it .. I'll pass and 'select' birds LOL

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## Moutere

Jase,

Try getting in touch with Joey @ KTWStockworks in Motueka
ktwstockworks gun powders packs motueka new zealand.
He would be a good local point of contact.

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## Steve338

Hey Jase, was that you down the river the other afternoon out looking for pukes with your boy?

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## 308jase

Hey Steve,

Yep that was us, you were with your young fella about to do the retrieve on the duck?

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## 308jase

> There is no 'rules' regarding pumps etc
> I have shot my best round of skeet 24/25 with a pump gun. 1st time on a pump ... Can't replicate it...
> Chris 'fatty' Skully would clean up most shooters on NZ on a clay field with a pump gun. 
> I've seen him shoot skeet, trap and ball trap with one as a pisstake and beat most there .
> Unfortunately some clay clubs are lead by geriatrics that are blind to anything else
> Unless the club rules state no pumps when you joined then crank away! 
> Most shoots at our club 30% would be using pumps.
> Mate of mine Eli can fire a pump gun quicker than I can an auto!! And it boots 5x as much as my auto and he will put box after box through it .. I'll pass and 'select' birds LOL


Yeah I get the feeling that could be the case with a couple of the members.........like I said we have met guy's up there that have been fantastic at offering their time and help, but when your new you try not to ruffle the feathers of the older birds :Grin:

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## Maca49

Stop blaming the oldies, witout them you wouldnt have a club, bloody hanger ons :Thumbsup:

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## Gibo

> Stop blaming the oldies, witout them you wouldnt have a club, bloody hanger ons


Ha Ha without the newbies the same applies........

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## mikee

> There is no 'rules' regarding pumps etc
> I have shot my best round of skeet 24/25 with a pump gun. 1st time on a pump ... Can't replicate it...
> Chris 'fatty' Skully would clean up most shooters on NZ on a clay field with a pump gun. 
> I've seen him shoot skeet, trap and ball trap with one as a pisstake and beat most there .
> Unfortunately some clay clubs are lead by geriatrics that are blind to anything else
> Unless the club rules state no pumps when you joined then crank away! 
> Most shoots at our club 30% would be using pumps.
> Mate of mine Eli can fire a pump gun quicker than I can an auto!! And it boots 5x as much as my auto and he will put box after box through it .. I'll pass and 'select' birds LOL


Chris S whipped our butts using a mossberg pump action .410 at one shoot, smoking fast 40 yard crossers with it too. 

While him and I don't really "get on" the man could use a 4x2 for a stock andpipe taped on it for a barrel and still win. He can shoot!!
I have seen him hit clays at almost unbelievable distances regularly :Grin:

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## Ground Control

> I have seen him hit clays at almost unbelievable distances regularly



How are you measuring those distances ?
From the muzzle , or from his gut ?
There is quite a difference between the two and it could give a false impression  of the distance .
He's actually standing quite close to those long birds , its just his gun that's further back .
 :Have A Nice Day: 

Ken

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## Steve338

> Hey Steve,
> 
> Yep that was us, you were with your young fella about to do the retrieve on the duck?


Yip we got the duck with no help by the dog. Was a bit of a mission

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## Krameranzac

I would be asking where it says in the range standing orders, club constitution or NZCTA rules that a pump cant be used. It is the attitude of "those sorts of guns are not suitable" that costs the sport and clubs members.

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## veitnamcam

The shooting sports in general seem to be shooting themselves in the foot literally with silly rules that turn away new members.

If you want your sport to survive you NEED new members and lots of them!

Welcome and nurture anyone who turns up!

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## 308jase

Well, after getting our hands on a couple of 20g u/o guns today it turns out  the longer barrel's just unbalance him too much and he struggles,

Looks like we will be sticking with the little pump for a while longer! 

Thanks for the help and offers guy's,

Cheer's 
Jase

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## Ground Control

I shot my first clay target ever up at the Golden Downs club .
I have shot a few more since then .
Any club or squad of shooters that doesn't allow a new junior shooter to shoot their round of Skeet as all singles should hang their heads in shame .
If they have a misguided notion that the doubles pose a safety concern for a novice with a pump gun , then eliminate that obstacle and shoot all singles loading a single cartridge in the gun each target .
Once they have shown a real understanding and competency they then should move onto shooting a normal round which includes doubles . 
I am on my local clubs committee and I'm often asked to take inexperienced or absolute beginners in my squad .
I go out of my way , often to the detriment of my own scores on the day,  to make sure their experience is a good one and hopefully send them home with memories of that indescribable moment when the clay disintegrates  in front of their eyes . 
I'm just sorry I don't live there still , because your boy and you would be welcome on my squad any day .

Ken

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## 308jase

> I shot my first clay target ever up at the Golden Downs club .
> I have shot a few more since then .
> Any club or squad of shooters that doesn't allow a new junior shooter to shoot their round of Skeet as all singles should hang their heads in shame .
> If they have a misguided notion that the doubles pose a safety concern for a novice with a pump gun , then eliminate that obstacle and shoot all singles loading a single cartridge in the gun each target .
> Once they have shown a real understanding and competency they then should move onto shooting a normal round which includes doubles . 
> I am on my local clubs committee and I'm often asked to take inexperienced or absolute beginners in my squad .
> I go out of my way , often to the detriment of my own scores on the day,  to make sure their experience is a good one and hopefully send them home with memories of that indescribable moment when the clay disintegrates  in front of their eyes . 
> I'm just sorry I don't live there still , because your boy and you would be welcome on my squad any day .
> 
> Ken


Thank you Ken,

I only let my boy shoot singles and I stand with him and pass him a round only when it's his turn to shoot.

Were heading to the range in the morning so hopefully things go better this time...........if not then I think we will reconsider our membership :Sad:

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## mikee

> Thank you Ken,
> 
> I only let my boy shoot singles and I stand with him and pass him a round only when it's his turn to shoot.
> 
> Were heading to the range in the morning so hopefully things go better this time...........if not then I think we will reconsider our membership


Good luck with today, our next one is july 20, Let me know if you want to come shoot. My other offer still stands too.

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