# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  6x45 Rem barrel

## Wingman

I finally received what was supposed to be a pre-chambered 22" long fluted S/S 6mm TCU barrel but it wasnt. 
I had to make a chamber cast to actually work out what it was.
Someone had used a .223 reamer with a 6mm pilot then followed it up with a 6mm neck and throat reamer which made a very long necked crude 6x45 chamber with some interesting dimentions. 



I threw it in the lathe today and shortened the chamber end 10mm then rechambered it with a correct shorter neck and throat 6x45 reamer and it has come up very nice. 

I have threaded it for my switch barrel CZ 527 Varmint and look forward to working up a load for it. 



While The 6mm TCU was my intended build and would have offered a bit more performance it wasnt enough to warrant importing a  custom reamer and die set.  Ill just grab a set of 6x45 as soon as I find some on offer. I managed to neck up and load a few loads to test over the chrono using my 6ppc dies this afternoon which will have to do for now.
27gr of H4895 with a Nosler 70gr bullet got me just over 3000fps. Should go well with the 80 and 90gr bullets.
Will test it with some BM8208 too.

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## Seventenths

Well done... this is a great thread to help push the 6x45

Where & what brand of barrel is it?

Mathias will be eagerly watching & he still has me seriously thinking of a 6x45

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## muzza

I have a mini-mauser in 6x45. Use the Sierra 70 gr HP projectile in mine , seems to work well on fallow deer and goats.

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## Wingman

> Well done... this is a great thread to help push the 6x45
> 
> Where & what brand of barrel is it?
> 
> Mathias will be eagerly watching & he still has me seriously thinking of a 6x45


It was amongst a bunch of second hand barrels Ive picked up from Guncity Christchurch, they have a heap of take off barrels from back when Robbie Tiffen was doing their smithing. Im unsure of the brand and wouldnt trust GC even if they told me what it was. 
Ive purchased quite a few, some have been perfect others have had shot out throats etc but most are reusable  for the little CZ,  Sako or Zastava actions as they have very small action threads meaning they can be trimmed up quite a lot and there's still enough diameter left to fit them. At $99 per barrel they make great testing rigs for new wildcats and new to me cartridges such as this little project.

I actually picked up a .223 mini Mauser project for this build too but changed my mind when I saw how good condition and pretty this little barrel was. It deserved a home on my CZ 527. 
I was going to build the other mini test this cartridge then sell it on but somewhere along the line the 6x45 really grew on me.

I have another 6mm 1-10" twist trueflite heavier profile barrel that I could fit to the other mini Mauser in 6x45 or a lighter 1-9" .223rem if someone wants it? 
I had changed my plans to possibly opening up the bolt face and making something on the Russian case bases such as a .22 Grendel, .22 PPC, 6mmPPC, 6.5 Grendel or a subsonic .338 Grendel. 
I was going to do a bit of a build thread for it then flick it off but I happy to listen to suggestions at this stage.

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## Steelisreal

Are the potential choices based off using reamers you already have? I.e. the Grendel series? 22 Grendel looks useful especially with a 1/8 twist. 

Have you done much more with the Dasher? I saw a bit of information about that one on another thread. Have you done an in-depth write up on that experiment at all? 

I'm also fascinated by this 6x45 as well - seems like a brilliant wee cartridge. Read a lot about it a couple of years ago before I actually got shooting again. Definitely want to have one once I've got all the other kit sorted that one needs when starting out hunting and shooting again from scratch!

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## Mathias

Watching with interest  :Thumbsup:   I've tried BM8208 with the 75gr Sierra and found the pressure was higher for the same velocity as my preferred H335 load. I gave CFE223 a twirl as well and that suited the 80-90gr bullets nicely, better than H335. Good to see some interest in this round.

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## stevodog

Clever stuff wingman.

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## Wingman

> Are the potential choices based off using reamers you already have? I.e. the Grendel series? 22 Grendel looks useful especially with a 1/8 twist. 
> 
> Have you done much more with the Dasher? I saw a bit of information about that one on another thread. Have you done an in-depth write up on that experiment at all? 
> 
> I'm also fascinated by this 6x45 as well - seems like a brilliant wee cartridge. Read a lot about it a couple of years ago before I actually got shooting again. Definitely want to have one once I've got all the other kit sorted that one needs when starting out hunting and shooting again from scratch!


Yes based around chamber and neck/throat reamers I have.. not worth importing new one off reamers for these kind of fun experiments. 

I was leaning toward the .22 Grendel using fire formed .220 Russian brass to save neck turning but after building this 6x45 for myself I think it might be better to do a second one.. it will be much easier for the majority of potential buyers to load for too not to mention it will be a continuation of this thread for those interested.

I never got around to a write up on the 6mm Dasher barrel did I? Its a sweet little over achiever for sure. Settled on a load with the 95gr Nosler Balistic tip at 3200fps. It feeds great from the Desert Tech SRS mag but doesn't eject well due to the short case. I need to modify a heavier ejector spring for it but swapped the barrel out with the Creedmoor one for a recent culling job and have yet to get back to sorting the Dasher.

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## Wingman

> Watching with interest   I've tried BM8208 with the 75gr Sierra and found the pressure was higher for the same velocity as my preferred H335 load. I gave CFE223 a twirl as well and that suited the 80-90gr bullets nicely, better than H335. Good to see some interest in this round.


I based my load on Hornadys load data which was a touch under the max load  and a very full case for H4895 which they list as the best powder for the highest velocity with many bullet weights in 6x45

In previous experience with BM8208 in .22 and 6mm cartridges, Ive found it likes lighter loads not a full case and often shoots much tighter groups than any other powder.

While this little 6x45 screams with the lighter varmint type 6mm bullets I see no real advantage using it over a .223 which is why I want to develop a 90gr Nosler BT load for it which is a great little deer bullet as it has a thick copper base unlike the lighter jacket 60-80 varmint bullets available in 6mm. 






The new Hornady 90ELDX is also a great contender for this test.
My only real limitation in the CZ 527 is mag length. Id say the other little internal mag mini Mauser will do better for the heavier bullets pulled out a bit longer. For this very reason I may have to stay with a lighter but more solid bullet in my CZ for deer.

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## Mathias

Nice. Don't overlook two of Sierra's bullets for the 6x45, the 75gr HP varmint which has a heavy jacket for hot 6mm's, this performs like a Game King at 6x45 velocities and 85gr HPBT Game King if you want something a bit harder. These both have a similar COAL that I can squeeze into my Sako Vixen mag no trouble, without deep seating. Both offer fine accuracy in my 1:10 barrel.

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## Wingman

Yes @southernman mentioned the same thing to me about the Sierra 75 and 85gr game king bullets. I may have to run something like that in my CZ due to being limited to a COAL of 59.5mm (2.35") for the mag to feed them.



He also shared a very informative link to a related fnh thread for those interested.

FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 - What 6x45 loads are you guys using?

The more I read about the 6x45 the more I really like it.
I think I have already convinced myself that I need to machine a second one on this other mini mauser unless a bunch of people are interested in seeing something else on it?
Happy to take requests on this project as it will be sold on cheap afterwards regardless, its just a bit of fun over the xmas break. 

Ive just had a good look at the 24" 1-10" 6mm heavy Trueflite barrel and I can get a clean 20" to 21" 6x45 barrel from it.

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## quadhunter260

crap i really shoulda kept my lh zastava 223 🤬😭🤬🤬

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## Wingman

> crap i really shoulda kept my lh zastava 223


Yeah ya should have.. this barrel would have been great on it

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## quadhunter260

rub it in 🤪🤣🤣🤬🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭

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## Mathias

Shit that HnF thread is nearly 3 years old. I've run a heap through mine in that time. Currently have a second 6x45 in the works, this time its gonna be 1:8 @ about 20" and lighter, esp after handling @southernman little Cooper  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Wingman

Just had a scratch through my projectile shelf and found some 80gr Speer soft points that could work well in the 6x45. The 90gr Nosler BT is very long so will limit powder capacity when loaded for the CZ 527 mag.

Left to right: Nosler BT 90gr, Sierra blitzking 70gr, Speer SP 80gr and Nosler Varmagedon 70gr FB

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## Wingman

I might load a few of the 90grs long and single feed them just to get some velocity figures to see if they are worth pursuing in the other rifle.

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## quadhunter260

70gn blitzking or a 80gn soft point were my plans for 6x45 before i sold my donor in a brainfart need $$ haze  good luck wingman 😎🤙

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## Micky Duck

you sold a LH zastava.....hang thy head in shame....NO way is my RH one going anywhere anytime soon..absolutely love the wee rifle.the .223 cartridge is a great wee round and limiting myself to 150 yards-200 max and using 50 grn projectiles has never had me feeling undergunned.
the few big reds and the couple of boars that Im come across while carrying rifle sure didnt think it too small to do job.

so if Im reading this right .....cartridge is a .223 necked UP to 6mm?????
isnt that what the myna series were???or was that on .222 case
the .204 case gets used a bit now too.......there are even a few hornary old coots who have .204 necked up to 6.5 and shoot all manner of critters with it.....

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## Seventenths

> the .204 case gets used a bit now too.......there are even a few hornary old coots who have .204 necked up to 6.5 and shoot all manner of critters with it.....


Don't let him hear you call him old!  :Grin: 

He's 21 plus 40+ years old and has that Kimber and stunning 'Hagn' rifle chambered in that "264 Magic", shot some big critters with those guns!  :Thumbsup:

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## quadhunter260

@Micky Duck
the Myra series were 243-222,257-222 and 308-222 done by Arthur Langsford in oz name after his wife Myra 
reasons my LH Zastava was sold was the 223 bit lol
also that evil thing need $$ for bills 🙄

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## muzza

There is a series of rimfires by Myra as  well - from necked down .22 short case up to necked down 22 rat shot case. As well as extruder barrels for rimfires and many other interesting development

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## Wingman

> so if Im reading this right .....cartridge is a .223 necked UP to 6mm?????


Yes correct.. nothing fancy.. just a .223rem cartridge necked up to 6mm to allow the use of heavier hunting bullets. 
Many of the 6mm weights cross over with the .223 weights but where this 6x45 benefits is with the heavier jacketed bullets more suitable for deer sized game and the 6mm bullets actually take up less case room than many of their longer .223 counterparts of similar weights. This meant the little cartridge can really get respectable velocities from 70 to 95gr bullets. 

For those not following here is a quick explanation of the more popular related 6mm wildcat cartridges:

6mm/.222 = necked up .222 Rem std .23deg sholder

6x45  AKA 6mm/.223 = necked up .223 Rem std 23deg shoulder

6mm TCU = necked up .223 Rem fire formed straight wall body and 40 deg improved shoulder

6x47 Rem AKA 6x47 Federal = necked up .222 magnum or some now use .204 Rug brass.

There ate variations on all of these with 30deg and 40deg shoulders etc but those are the more common variants.

I had intended on building the 6mm TCU as that what I was told the barrel was pre chambered in. This was not the case.  
I dont have the 6mmTCU reamer so I have continued with 6x45Rem.

However I could cut a 6mm TCU (of sorts) with reamers I do have, start with the 6x45 reamer then follow it with a .223 Ackley improved reamer with a 6mm pilot but the body length and body to shoulder junction diameter on the .223 AI chamber will be slightly larger than the 6mm TCU meaning Id also have to make some custom from some .223 Ackley improved dies. While all doable this was just going to be a quick fun project on a cheap and cheerful project .223 rifle I picked up with a rooted barrel. 
I intended to move the rifle on once I was done playing but the one off custom chamber would have a limited market.

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## Micky Duck

you forgot the 6mm/08   AKA the EBRG/twoforfree LOL.

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## Wingman

> you forgot the 6mm/08   AKA the EBRG/twoforfree LOL.


Im not sure they are "related".. maybe a creepy second cousin at best

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## Micky Duck

one of the early 6mm widcats.....one of the early speed demons...arguably one of the best that were taken up commercially that have stood test of time.

and no I dont own one,unless a .30/243 counts LMFAO.

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## Wingman

Nope never heard if it..

Oh you must mean the 6mm Creedmoor?  :Grin:

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## Micky Duck

splutter splutter...wash thy mouth out you heathen you.....
oh I know...a 6mm remington with a different twist rate barrel so it can handle up to 105grn projectiles......
apparently it kills well if you stick barrel deep enough into ear canal
creedmore........shaking head on that one.......new skid on the jock......

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## Wingman

Spent the evening necking up some .223 Lapua match brass to 6mm and have dropped in a full case of H4895
Behind some 70gr Sierra Blitzkings and some 70gr Nosler Varmageddon bullets to test on paper.
Loaded to magazine length both of these bullets compress the 27gr load quite a bit so not ideal but hey ya never know unless you try. 





I can already see that my load for this rifle will be very influenced by the mag OAL and having to jump bullets quite a way to the lands as a result. 
If these loads dont impress me Ill be trying some 75gr Sierra hollow points which should be able to be seated out a bit further and the more rounded ogive should put me closer to the lands by default. 
I will have to run some ladder tests with the BM8208 powder too as I really dont like the compressed loads.

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## quadhunter260

awesome hope this thread dont make go into Debt again in 2020 🙄🤣🤣🤣

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## Friwi

Hi Wingman, an option would be to get and re do the project with a 204 CZ , as the magazine is longer I believe and you could seat your projectiles just a bit further.

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## Wingman

> Hi Wingman, an option would be to get and re do the project with a 204 CZ , as the magazine is longer I believe and you could seat your projectiles just a bit further.


Nah the .204 CZ 527 mag is the same as the .223 mag, the both will hold a max length of 2.350".  
Actually both the .223rem and .204 Rug have a Saami std COAL of 2.260".  The .204 cartridge was designed that way to be able to run in the current .223 platforms. 
The 204 brass is a tad longer than the .223rem but it has a shorter bullet and throat.

If I cant get anything to shoot well with the big jump to lands Ill probably redo the chamber with a .223rem or .223AI reamer (with a 6mm pilot) and then just use a separate 6mm neck reamer followed by a 6mm throater cutting little to no free bore. 

It was a mistake on my behalf not to check my reamers free bore against my mag limitation to begin with.. live and learn  :Grin: 
The other Zastava mini mauser project I have with the internal mag should lend itself better to the heavier projectiles with the 1-10" twist and std 6x45 reamer.

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## mikee

A big jump don't matter, at least not in my 6.5TCU. Reamers are generally made to allow 140s to be seated right out. I think when I load 95gn projectiles the jump is something like 6mm and they still shoot very well

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## Wingman

> A big jump don't matter, at least not in my 6.5TCU. Reamers are generally made to allow 140s to be seated right out. I think when I load 95gn projectiles the jump is something like 6mm and they still shoot very well


Lets hope not.. I will find out as soon as this wind and rain eases..
The first of JD Jones's reamers were made for the Thompson contender single shot pistols so mag length was not a consideration when the TCU reamers were designed.

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## Mathias

Your assumption about the 75gr Sierra being a better OAL for your set up should be correct. On my 6x45 they have a touch lands as just over 59mm OAL. I found that any tipped bullet had to have a deep seat, even the 70gr Nosler BT but still attained very good accuracy as mikee states. Looking forward to seeing some results when the weather clears up for you  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Wingman

> Your assumption about the 75gr Sierra being a better OAL for your set up should be correct. On my 6x45 they have a touch lands as just over 59mm OAL. I found that any tipped bullet had to have a deep seat, even the 70gr Nosler BT but still attained very good accuracy as mikee states. Looking forward to seeing some results when the weather clears up for you


That gives me a lot more confidence in jumping them for sure. I guess its not so much the jump that bothers me but the deep seating and compressed loads. However I learned a lot about the seating depths of a few more bullets Id intended on testing today.

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## Wingman

It was great to catch up with  @southernman today who was generous enough to loan me his Redding 6x45 die set (among other goodies for my .17 Mach IV and .20 Vartarg builds) for a few months until mine turn up.

He was also good enough to bring his 6x45 Cooper S/S rifle (lovely bit of kit!) and ammo with him which I go to measure up against my chamber. 
He had loaded 70gr Nosler BT, 65gr V-Max, 85gr Sierra Gamekings and 75gr Sierra Varminters all loaded between 60.00 and 61.0mm COAL apart from the 75gr Varminter which was about 59mm and fitted my mag. 
All dropped into my chamber without contacting the lands even though they were longer than my mag length apart from the 75gr Varminter once again that entered the lands. 
Once again I appreciate southernman's generosity and help as he let me pull one of his 75gr Sierra HP loads to set up in my chamber. 
It turns out this proectile is about as perfect as it gets for my chamber, it kissed the lands at 58.83mm so will grab a box and load some test rounds at 58.80mm (about .8mm clearance in my mag) to put on paper too. 

Always cool to meet like minded people with the same interests, so thanks again for stopping in and sharing your Redding and Lapua goodies mate. Theres always a coffee and a test range here for you whenever you are travelling past.

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## quadhunter260

awesome man theres some good bastards on here 😎

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## southernman

Nice to meet up with @Wingman this afternoon, have loaned a few dies, to help his projects along. thanks for the coffee, had a look at sum of his toys,  His lathe, I am quite jealous off, I think it would be fine in my shed.
 drop us a pm, if you after any bits and pieces from Canada.

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## Bill999

> awesome man theres some good bastards on here


jeez tell me about it

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## Wingman

Well the rain stopped but the wind continues but I decided to shoot the 10 rounds I had loaded anyway. 
I figured that now I have the correct dies they will make better ammo than the makeshift ones I sized and seated with some 6mmPPC dies.. so I used this ammo to zero the scope and fire form the brass.

It took 2 rounds of the 70gr Nosler to zero it then the other 3 clover leafed nicely into just under a 1/2 inch at 100m.



The 70gr Sierra Blitzkings didnt go quite as well but still under an inch.



Im sure both these bullets would shoot great with some tuning of the load but they are both light jacketed varmint bullets which is not what I was wanting for this cartridge anyway. I have ordered some 75gr Sierra HPs and will spend my load development time with them.

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## Wingman

The Sierra 75gr HPs turned up today and they really are spot on for my throat and mag length. They seat perfectly with 100% neck contact and dont take up valuable powder space in the shoulder. 
Ive loaded both H4895 and BM-8208 with 26.5gr which is .5gr off the max load on both powders.
 The H4898 was full to about half the neck and a lightly compressed load. The BM8208 was just below the neck junction so still had some rattle to it. 
Will test them as soon as this xmas crap is out of the way.

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## Wingman

With some perfect still conditions for load testing of the 75gr HPs today I jumped at the chance. 

I fitted the 6x45 barrel to the cz and loaded the five H4895 rounds into the mag.

I messed up here as I forgot that I gave the barrel a scrub clean after the last test so the first shot was 40fps fast and high.
I should have loaded some fouling shots first but meh.. take it for what it is.
Other than that first shot it was a very small group.

The chrono readings were as follows:

3002, 2969, 2960, 2960, 2961 fps



The BM8208 were the next group and they also shot pretty well with a bit more velocity but also slightly flatter primers. 

The string was looking good except the second to last shot. Not sure what went on there.

2985, 2982, 2981, 3000, 2986 fps




I could back the BM8208 load off .5gr to match the H4895 velocities to see If the pressure drops back a bit too but I think Ill just run with the H4895.
Just as   @Mathias mentioned in an earlier post you can see the BM8208 primers a quite a bit flatter showing higher case pressures than the H4895 on the left.

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## Mathias

Good stuff.
As mentioned, I found the same result when using 8208. My H335 load of 27.3gr has the same primers as your 4895 and 27gr 8208 has very flat primers, both for very similar velocity of 3045-3050fps.
Accuracy is much the same as yours...if I'm doing my bit. No need for a fancy tipped boat tail bullet for out to 300m, these 75gr Sierra's are it for the 6x45.

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## Wingman

> Good stuff.
> I found the same result when using 8208. My H335 load of 27.3gr has the same primers as your 4895 and 27gr 8208 has very flat primers, both for very similar velocity of 3045-3050fps.
> Accuracy is much the same as yours...if I'm doing my bit. No need for a fancy tipped boat tail bullet for out to 300m, these 75gr Sierra's are it for the 6x45.


Yes Sir, Im pretty happy with those results. 
For a sweet shooting fluted s/s barrel Id say $99 dollars was a win for this build.

What barrel length are you running?  how full is your case with 27.3gr of H335? (not a powder Ive ever used)

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## Mathias

> Yes sir, Im pretty happy with those results. For a sweet shooting fluted s/s barrel Id say $99 dollars was a win for this build.
> 
> What barrel length are you running?  how full is your case with 27.3gr of H335? (not a powder Ive ever used)


Great value for money.
23" plus a suppressor. Powder is about mid shoulder, so no compression. I picked up a lot of info from US websites on the 6x45 and H335 featured a lot as powder of choice for up to 75-80gr. Its a dirty ball powder but it gives good velocity and accuracy, with a BR4 primer.

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## Mathias

Funny how some threads are motivating. Just finished prepping 300 6x45 cases 

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

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## Wingman

> Funny how some threads are motivating. Just finished prepping 300 6x45 cases


That to me its prettier than any jewellery.. I just picked up another 100x Lapua cases to open up too.

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## Mathias

Contemplated Lapua but had about 1000x R-P brass from my 223, its consistent enough for goat loads where the odd few get lost.

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

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## quadhunter260

roughly how fast would a 6x45 with 75-80gn pill be from 18 inch barrel ?,?

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## Wingman

> roughly how fast would a 6x45 with 75-80gn pill be from 18 inch barrel ?,?


An educated guess tells me about 2800 to 2850fps. The 6mm TCU (aka 6x45 Ackley improved)holds 2gr more powder and gets close to 2850fps with a short 14" contender pistol barrel so Id say it doesnt need a long tube to perform with the right powders.

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## quadhunter260

the lack of a lefty 223 bolt action is saving me from more debt it seems so far 😎😂

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## Wingman

Back into it, I put together some Speer 80gr soft point  projectiles  with 26.5gr of H4895 (.5gr off the listed max charge). These are also a harder jacketed hunting bullet so should do well on deer. My apprehension with them was their length and weight, my barrel is only a 1-14" twist so as a rule 70gr projectiles are the heaviest it will stabilize. The 75gr Hollow points stabilize fine and these 80gr soft points are only a little longer and also have the flat base so worth a try.

I put one over the chrono and it clocked 2880fps which is pretty good.  This load actually shows less pressure than my 75gr loads with the same load of 26.5gr of H4895 due to its shorter bearing surface so it could probably be pushed a bit faster or at least the same as the Sierra 75gr.
I will put them on paper this morning  and test for stability before upping the charge a bit more.

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## Wingman

No stability issues at all and a respectable 0.6"  5 shot group at 100m. Good clean round holes with no sign of keyholing. I put another 5 shots out to 220m on a dirt bank and it was spot on. I may have to give the 85gr Sierra game kings a go too.

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## Mathias

Nice. The 85gr HPBT should work fine as they are a very similar nose profile and bearing surface to the 75gr HP. I've got a box of the deleted Sierra 80gr Single Shot pistol bullet that were designed for rifle hand gun, these look similar to your Speers there. I must dig them out and have a crack with CFE223 behind them.

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## quadhunter260

lookin promising wingman 😎 following this great thread 😎

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## Wingman

> the lack of a lefty 223 bolt action is saving me from more debt it seems so far


 @quadhunter260  Im just going to leave this here... nope, no need to thank me, its just how I roll..

https://www.guncity.com/223-remingto...ilencer-364681

https://www.guncity.com/223-browning...-handed-348172

https://www.guncity.com/223-tikka-t3...-handed-360021

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## takbok

Looking good. Thumbs up from another 6x45 convert.

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## Wingman

> Looking good. Thumbs up from another 6x45 convert.


Cheers.. I havent used my .223 in a long time, the .22TCM kinda took its place for varminting but I can really see the 6x45 getting used for goats and deer a lot.
It has remarkable velocity for such a small cartridge and the lack of noise and recoil makes it very pleasant to shoot.

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## GWH

I'm loving these threads of yours showing your projects, I'm envious of your skills and ability to machine up and fit barrels etc. Bloody cool and handy.

I've been interested in the 6x45 for a number of years now. Seems a very capable little cartridge.

I'm starting to like playing with these little cartridges,  they are just no fuss at all and fun to shoot all day.

My 223 with 75 gr eldms and my 6.5 Grendel are lots of fun and surprisingly capable.

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## takbok

Your TCM posts were very informative thank you.

My 6x45 has a 20.5" 8 twist barrel and I can get 2500fps from a 105 A-max, 3100 with 70gr blitzing and about 2850 with 80gr Sierra Blitz, although I don't shoot these much.

I hunt roe deer here in Scotland with 62gr GS Custom copper bullets at 3350fps. Very effective.

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## Wingman

@takbok I could see how this cartridge would be about perfect for Roe deer and Fellow. 
I briefly looked at the barnes mono TTSX but its 80gr and very long so I dont like my chances in my 1-14" twist.
Will test a few of the heavier bullets when I get a moment to chamber and fit up my other 1-10" twist barrel. 
I might even go a bit custom on that barrel and use a .223 AI reamer and the 6x45 reamer to cut something close to a 6mm TCU chamber. 
The straighter walls and 40 deg shoulder is apparently good for another 150-200fps depending on barrel length.
Im just not sure its worth all the case fire forming drama when this humble old 6x45 case is as easy to make as passing a .223 Rem cartridge through the 6x45 sizing die. It may also introduce feeding issues from a magazine.

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## Wingman

> I'm loving these threads of yours showing your projects, I'm envious of your skills and ability to machine up and fit barrels etc. Bloody cool and handy.
> 
> I've been interested in the 6x45 for a number of years now. Seems a very capable little cartridge.
> 
> I'm starting to like playing with these little cartridges,  they are just no fuss at all and fun to shoot all day.
> 
> My 223 with 75 gr eldms and my 6.5 Grendel are lots of fun and surprisingly capable.


Thanks mate, machining my own stuff certainly adds some enjoyment and sense of achievement to my hobby for sure. It has me experimenting with all sorts of wildcats which keeps things interesting.

I have done my time with the big magnums and they just really don't interest me anymore. Its not like we have an abundance of moose to hunt in NZ and in the scheme of things our game animals are actually quite small. Personally I Im a big fan of medium to small high efficiency cartridges shooting softer more frangable bullets. At the longer ranges and lower velocities they behave more like a harder bullet at magnum cartridge velocities.
 The 6x45 is exactly that and like you say you could shoot it all day and it would be very pleasant. 

My .223 barrel is a 1-9" twist so I stick with 69gr TMKs which are great on varmints and goats but this new 6mm shooting the 75gr-85gr hollow points is just that step above. 
While I have picked off the odd goat way out there, most my shooting is inside 500m Im confident in saying anything inside 500m is well and truly not safe with my .308win with 175gr TMKs, 6.5 Creedmore with 147gr ELDMs or 6.5x47 Lapua with 130gr TMKs.

My 6.5 Grendel is still my favorite little rifle and capable cartridge, super fun and if I could only pick one I think that would be it.

----------


## Wingman

Sharing is caring right? 
A couple more used 6mm barrels from guncity's website arrived today to fit up on some 6x45 converted mates rifles.





All have been labeled 6mm TCU, none of them were.
Three of the four barrels were clearly all badly chambered by the same guy, all have been very roughly cut with a .223 reamer with bad deep radial scratches in the chamber then plunged with a 6mm neck and throat reamer to no particular depth!?  One of the barrels neck and throat was so long that a bullet seated to mag length would have a 7-8mm jump to the lands.. Im pretty sure most bullets would be out of the neck before engaging the rifling! Heres a pic of the chamber castings from the first fluted barrel I got and the two that arrived today. The one in the third pic has the longest neck and throat. I have put a 6x45 case trimmed to the correct length above it and a 6mm TCU (6x45 Ack Imp) below it for reference.







Plenty of meet to cut off and correctly rechamber though.
One will be fitted to a Sako vixon and two on some Czech made Zastava mini Mausers.

----------


## Tommy

Oh wow, that jump is like a hydroslide for bullets

----------


## Wingman

> Oh wow, that jump is like a hydroslide for bullets


My guess would be that is why these barrels were removed. I can't imagine they would have shot well and the amount of deep scratching in the chamber walls right around where you'd normally see case head separation  would have been detrimental to the brass too.
Its hard to photograph but Id say the reamer was dull, crap lube, pushed to fast or failed to clear the swarf. 



Regardless to what they were they are cheap tubes that with a bit of machining I will make fine shooters out of.

----------


## Scout

Awesome Wingman, you saved me buying one for one of my Vixen/AI projects lol !

I'm always too slow .

----------


## Wingman

> Awesome Wingman, you saved me buying one for one of my Vixen/AI projects lol !
> 
> I'm always too slow .


Ha you could always just offload that vixon to me  :Thumbsup:

----------


## Micky Duck

rebarreling a mini mauser Zastava....you heathen you.......mine took care of a red spiker on the 27th....very nicely indeed. 50ish yards was no stretch for the .223 and 50 grn barnes ttsx......... I guess someone may have loved them so much the origonal barrel was shot out...lovely wee rifles.
make sure to post up photos of finished jobs please.

----------


## Wingman

> rebarreling a mini mauser Zastava....you heathen you.......mine took care of a red spiker on the 27th....very nicely indeed. 50ish yards was no stretch for the .223 and 50 grn barnes ttsx......... I guess someone may have loved them so much the origonal barrel was shot out...lovely wee rifles.
> make sure to post up photos of finished jobs please.


It seems these Zastavas have some what of a fan club.. personally Ive always considered them a cheap entry level rifle and for $699-$799 new they were nothing flash. The newer Serbian made Zastava minis are nothing short of horrible. Some of the ugliest machining and action tolerances Ive seen. The earlier Czechoslovakian Brno made Zastavas were actually not that bad. (the one have)



They can be tickeled up to be quite smooth actions and once trued up shoot quite well. I can document that process if it is of interest? 
The one I picked up for this project has pitting on the bore from corrosive ammo and lack of cleaning so it needs a new tube for sure. I also have a brand new CZ 527.223 1-9" twist barrel I could put on it too so maybe it could end up a switch barrel too.

Regardless I will post plenty of pics of the builds on this thread.

----------


## rupert

I would be very interested in a Zastava truing up process documentation.

----------


## Tentman

Yes Please - I'd be keen to see what you do.  I recently acquired a "Zastava Serbia" marked 223 "mini Mauser" and with a little work it is a very sweet little rifle.  I saw an identical one (i.e. the same importation batch, the serial number was within a 100 of mine) in the Dunedin  Gun City, just after I got mine, and it was a better, smoother example.  On mine the sear dragged heavily against the bolt and it ran much better after I adjusted the sear down a bit with a shim - simple and easy to do.

Just to clarify and add a bit of context about the "mini mausers" that I've garnered from various sources . . . we have two completely different manufacturers and designs.  Ceska Zbrojovka in Uhersky Brod, Moravia in the Czech Republic currently make the CZ Model 527, which is a mini mauser design, its predecessors being the Brno  ZKW-465, Fox etc.  

The Zastava Model 85 is made by Crvena Zastava at Kragujevac in Serbia.  It too has been through quite a few variations over several decades at least, and a whole bunch of markings as they have been imported and sold by every man and his dog -  Remington 798, Charles Daly Mini Mauser are a couple that spring to mind, as well as their own name. They have been available in a range of quality grades depending on what the middleman has ordered, ranging from pretty horrible to not too bad (for the limitations imposed by the actions design). Even the same batch has variations as I've explained above, there is obviously a bit of human intervention still going on at Crvena Zastava !!  Everyone gets them confused with the Czech "CZ" but they are and always have been completely separate companies and designs.

Now I've owned one, tweeked it and shot it a bit I'm a believer, they are bloody good little rifles, nothing like the finish of a Sako L461, but with some features that are better, others not so. I no longer own any Sako "mini's" and have no wish to get another one, the Zastava will do all I want in a mini action.

----------


## 57jl

Tentman I have the same  marked Zastava Serbia CAL 223 REM  1KM85 it has a single set trigger and is a lefthand action

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## Wingman

Thanks for that Tentman,
Heres all I know about the Zastavas, like you I have got from various sources over the years which some of them may not be accurate and some of which is my interpretation of the information.

The Yugoslavian Zastava designed M70 is a Rem 798, Charles Daly 98 and Interarms Mk X varying to some degree in fit & finish. They were all the same long action "commercial Mausers", all made by the same manufacturer in the former Yugoslavia and later Serbia. 

The Zastava and Brno factories both built Mausers before and after the war. Im lead to believe the Yugoslian Zastava factory got a licence from the Czechoslovakian Zbrojovka Brno to produce M85 mini mauser actions pre the 91-95 conflict. While a different design to the Brno 465/Fox/CZ527 action they were both of the Brno factory's design. 
From the few I have seen the earlier Yugoslavian marked ones are far better made than the later Serbian marked actions. There was a gap in the sporting mausers production during the early 90s war and the more modern M85s came after the factory was bombed by Nato and later rebuilt. They recieved nearly 10 million euro from the Serbian government to modernise the factory and my guess is new automated machinery. Its hard to beat those old world quality hand engineered actions.

----------


## Micky Duck

yip mine has the cz in circle like modern brunos.... looks the same as one you have pictured...the only other diference mine has to others Ive seen is it has a bridge mount fitted which MAY help to strengthen action??? buered if I know.it wears a loopy 3x9x50mm and it fits like a glove with those highish mounts,bolt clearace is just right. many hours of working the bolt smoothed out the action but its still best if not babied. I usually only put 5 in mag as it feeds better than with 6. it has shot really well from day dot..broke barrel in with 100 rounds of that awesome norinco yellow box fmj .man that stuff kills mid sized animals well.
I hot glue gun bedded mine 20 years ago,pulled action apart recently and bedding still looks fine so wont touch it yet.
the safety never gets used.
clean them well as will rust easily.
strip the stock,stain n oil,the wood is plain but good.
awesome wee rifle.

----------


## Friwi

On a lot of those old one, the safety is pretty much useless and borderline dangerous and not easy to adjust.
The good news is that an aftermarket Mauser 98 three position wing safety "à la Winchester 70" can be fitted to that bolt. It needs some carefull work but will turn that rifle into the ultimate mini rifleman' rifle :-)

----------


## Tentman

> On a lot of those old one, the safety is pretty much useless and borderline dangerous and not easy to adjust.
> The good news is that an aftermarket Mauser 98 three position wing safety "à la Winchester 70" can be fitted to that bolt. It needs some carefull work but will turn that rifle into the ultimate mini rifleman' rifle :-)


A "Mauser 98" trigger with a safety (Timney etc) will also fit without modification (well maybe it'll need a wee touch to the inlet in the trigger area) which opens up the field a lot as there are many really good Mauser 98 aftermarket triggers out there.

Its a shame the design (with such a short rear bridge which forms the bolt guide) and manufacture (highly variable even within a particular lot) sometimes produces a bolt that needs babied as @micky-Duck points out.  Mine is fine, the Dunedin one I saw was better, another one owned by a forum member that I've handled is fine too,  others not so . . . . there is not much evidence on the interweb of successful fixes either apart from a few full custom jobs by the likes of James Anderson (megabucks)

----------


## quadhunter260

> I have the same  marked Zastava Serbia CAL 223 REM  1KM85 it has a single set trigger and is a lefthand action


 @57jl i stupidly so my zastava lh mini if your interesting in selling drop us a pm 😎

----------


## Wingman

Its been a busy first week back at work but found some time to machine and pre-chamber  the Sako Vixen barrel to fit up this weekend. Will then focus on the Zastava builds. Still not sure if Ill put a 6x45 barrel on one of the Zastavas as I might just put a new .223 barrel on it and move it on.



On a side note a new magazine arrived for my CZ 527.
Those of you that have messed with wildcat cartridges will know that some can have their vices  in factory rifles.
The 6x45 was no exception.. I have been getting quite a few failures to feed due to the fatter 6mm necks binding in the sidewall stampings in the mag designed for the .223 Remington. 



It is an easy fix by milling out the slots in the pressed section on both sides which I have done in the past for .300 BLK builds but CZ have actually just released a CZ 
527 in .300Blk and listed spare mags for it. 
These mags are made without any side wall stamping so feed the 6x45 rounds perfectly in my rifle. WINNING!  :Thumbsup:

----------


## Mathias

@Wingman, be keen to see some posts on the Sako Vixen fit up  and your findings  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Wingman

> Shit that HnF thread is nearly 3 years old. I've run a heap through mine in that time. Currently have a second 6x45 in the works, this time its gonna be 1:8 @ about 20" and lighter, esp after handling @southernman little Cooper





> @Wingman, be keen to see some posts on the Sako Vixen fit up and your findings


The Vixen should be a fairly straight forward rebarrel.
It has a internal .223 mag with a max COAL of 58.5mm, so the same as my CZ 527 mags. 
It has a custom carbon fiber Stug stock fitted so as long as that has been bedded properly and the bottom metal is fitted correctly in the position it was in the walnut stock it should feed fine. 
The barrel inlet channel may need a little tickle up but other than that it should be great.

----------


## Wingman

Ok so the Zastava pushed inline. 
I have made a start on the M85 instead of the Sako as my weekend penciled in for workshop and load development time was sidetracked by a sick wife and kids. They are on the up now so I spent the evening prepping the Zastava and rescheduled the Sako fit up.



The Zastava M85 aka Remington 799 aka Interarms MarkX etc it's not actually a true mini mauser, if my info is correct its is based on the Sako L46 action.
It’s a small-action Mauser, true to its namesake’s double-lug form, with a claw extractor and standard left-side bolt release but it is not a controlled feed. It has a sako type extractor.. infact wit a little filing the Sako extractor can be used as a replacement for the commonly damaged Zastava units.
It’s very lightweight, at just over five pounds empty, *Overal the exterior metal on the M85 is well-finished. There’s a modern thumb safety, a gracefully-shaped trigger guard, and hinged floor plate. The magazine holds 6 rounds but feeds better with 5.

The first thing I notice with the M85 is the short length of the .223 internal box magazine. This will restrict 6x45 loads to about 46.5mm compared to the CZ 527 and Sako Vixons 49mm.  Im sure they will still shoot great as shown in previous posting of early projectiles with a big jump to lands. 
This is a 75gr Sierra hollow point seated for my CZ mag



This one is getting a 1-10" twist barrel so will handle the heavier projectiles as well. 

With the pitted out .223 barrel removed and action stripped I have also noted some ugly machining. 



While the bolt is quite slick in this one the actions face, and locking lug surfaces were very ugly. 
With a bit of dye on the lug surfaces and a few cycles of the bolt it showed very little lug contact on one side (about 30%) and the other side was very marred from the factory machining process. 
I tried to get good pics but it really doesnt show up well.






These surfaces will all get squared up with the bolt and lapped to full contact on both locking lugs. 
Unfortunately I forgot to take pics of the dyed surfaces but the marred up shiney spots gives you some idea.

----------


## quadhunter260

😎

----------


## Wingman

I got the action all trued up, barrel threaded both ends and chambered. 
I polished a few rough edges on the bolt/bolt channel and burnished in some molly powder which made it very slick. 





The new barrel was a slightly bigger profile so the stock needed a little more inleting and will get a touch up with some stain and oil. 



Finally reassembled it and threw a scope on to test on some paper tomorrow. The rings are too high but will do for testing purposes. 



I put a few of my 75gr HP loads for my CZ through it over the chrono and they were a bit hot for the faster twist so will drop a grain and load some to mag length for the tests.

----------


## quadhunter260

geez that m85 looks mint 👍😎👍

----------


## Wingman

Yep shes pretty tidy now.. Ill work a load for it shortly and throw some lead on paper.
I managed to save 21.5" of the donor 6mm barrel and it shoots 55" faster than my 22" with the same loads! Will back it off to more brass friendly loads and go from there though. 2950fps seems to be a happy spot for the 75gr Sierra HPs and H4895 but will give the H335 a go when @Tommy visits.

----------


## quadhunter260

@Wingman keep up the good work and thread 
one day stars will align and ill join the 6x45 crew 😎👍
 i read on a oz forum many moons a ago that 6mm varmint projectiles work like hunting ones less explosive at 6x45 speeds be interesting to see if true or just internet scuttle butt

----------


## Wingman

Cheers mate.
There is some truth to that theory. SOME varmint and target bullets act like hunting bullets at lower velocities but that depends a lot on range and the bullet. 
The 6x47 for example at 3000fps is not actually that slow. I would stay away from the lighter jacketed bullets such as 70gr blitzking, 70gr and 80gr Sierra varminters for anything heavier than goats and stay away from that shoulder bone. The 75gr and 85gr Sierra varminter had have heavier jackets designed for the bigger case .243s at 3800 to 4000fps so these are the ones you want in the 6x45 for deer.

----------


## Wingman

Typo in that last post.. 6x45 @ 3000fps not 6x47 but both are true

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## Wingman

Something else to consider is the lower BC of many of the flat base type varmint bullets. They wash of speed much faster than the longer more slippery hunting bullets. I would consider this 6x45 a 250 to 300yard max hunting rifle.

----------


## Mathias

> Something else to consider is the lower BC of many of the flat base type varmint bullets. They wash of speed much faster than the longer more slippery hunting bullets. I would consider this 6x45 a 250 to 300yard max hunting rifle.


Good words there @Wingman, it's a 300yrd round and no more. I've treated it exactly the same and haven't got myself into trouble sticking to the self imposed rule when used on goats.

How are you getting on with dies? I did post earlier that you can make a FL sizer from 223 bushing type dies easy enough. Redding do not list a 6x45 in their S Type, so I made one myself and it works a treat with the .263 bushing for my brass.

----------


## Wingman

> Good words there @Wingman, it's a 300yrd round and no more. I've treated it exactly the same and haven't got myself into trouble sticking to the self imposed rule when used on goats.
> 
> How are you getting on with dies? I did post earlier that you can make a FL sizer from 223 bushing type dies easy enough. Redding do not list a 6x45 in their S Type, so I made one myself and it works a treat with the .263 bushing for my brass.


I ordered a set of Reddings from my buddy in the states but had been using Southerman's set while he is back in Canada.

I had thought to make some from a .223 rem set of bushing dies and just run the reamer through the seating die but by the time you have done all that and bought a 6mm seating stem, neck bushes and expander balls etc it gets pricey. Robert at workshop innovation can order a set for I think it was $145 in his monthly Redding order.

----------


## Wingman

I just got back from testing the Zastava on paper. 
I ended up backing the load off to 25gr from 26.5gr with the 75gr Sierras and seated them to 47.5mm to feed from the internal mag. 
This dropped the velocity back to 2800 and the pressure signs have gone. I actually found my CZ 527 loads at 59mm are in the lands on the zastava so there must be a bit more meat on this ones rifling than the CZs barrel.
Between the faster twist and the deeper seating the loads took 1.5gr less powder to match similar pressures.
Hopefully H335 can claw back a bit of speed in this rifle.

Probably the worst time of day to do it but I tested it at 100 meters in the screaming hot sun with the worst mirage and being mawled by bugs but still surprised myself with a 3/4" group!

----------


## Mathias

> I ordered a set of Reddings from my buddy in the states but had been using Southerman's set while he is back in Canada.
> 
> I had thought to make some from a .223 rem set of bushing dies and just run the reamer through the seating die but by the time you have done all that and bought a 6mm seating stem, neck bushes and expander balls etc it gets pricey. Robert at workshop innovation can order a set for I think it was $145 in his monthly Redding order.


Valid point about expense. I went the bushing way, as I had a neck run out issue with my Hornady 6mm/223 factory dies. I think this is attributed to the shape of the elliptical expander ball not having a lot of parallel area to keep square in neck when sizing. Its a great expander for opening up the necks though. Changing to bushing die, with no internal neck sizing on return stroke fixed the issue.

----------


## quadhunter260

@Mathias got a pic of your 6x45? 😎👍

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## Micky Duck

ok Wingman...you are forgiven...that looks very tidy and she sure knows how to punch holes in things....
I cant see me wearing out my .223 barrel anytime soon....but if I ever do ,well you have given me food for thought.

----------


## Wingman

Thanks Mr Duck, Im glad I finally have your approval  :Thumbsup: 

Some advice on your .223 barrel.. 
Start dipping your bullets in super glue and then sand.  :Wink:

----------


## Mathias

> @Mathias got a pic of your 6x45?


From when I first built it, nearly 8 years ago. First victim.

----------


## quadhunter260

nice rig 🤙😎

----------


## Wingman

@Mathias that looks great! 

I figured Id spend a bit of time on this ones stock and tidy it up in general. The metal work is pretty much perfect after a couple of blue touch ups.
The stock is a typical patchy beech wood and needed some refinishing in the barrel channel after opening it up for the heavier barrel. It was pretty good over all with only the odd mark and a compression mark on either side of the butt from someone winding it up in a vice at some stage.



I hit them with the steam wand on my coffee machine which lifted them out well.





I also added a couple of s/s pillars in the action screw holes as it was showing a bit of wood compression and they are bad for splitting if the action screws are not evenly loaded. The front was already bedded but I added a bit in the rear pillar and under the bottom metal to get a nice even torque without adding load.







It then got a good scrub in thinners and a coat of walnut brown with a touch of a darker stain in the lighter patchy spots. I used a very dark Black bean stain on the checkering to give it that classic Sako look the several coats of true oil. Came out pretty sweet and a nice satin finish. 









On to the next one...

----------


## Mathias

Thats really nice work @Wingman, I like the fact that you have passion in your work.

----------


## quadhunter260

since 6x45 fps seems up there is there any benefit going to 6tcu expect abit more fps ?

----------


## Wingman

> since 6x45 fps seems up there is there any benefit going to 6tcu expect abit more fps ?


Yes there could be. In a single shot where heavier bullets could be loaded out longer or when using a shorter 14 to 18" barrel.
Reports say the TCU/imp version get 150 to 200fps more with the same bullet

----------


## quadhunter260

sweet as enjoying this thread 😎👍
got the calculator out running numbers🙉🤯🤐 then i may join #6×45/6tcugang

----------


## Micky Duck

hmmm you have me thinking re poking pillars in now.....got heaps of arrow shaft to do it...my 20year old hot glue gun bedding isnt quite as neat as that job....but not far off it and its still working just fine LOL.

----------


## GWH

Well that came up pretty nice Phil.  :Thumbsup:

----------


## Wingman

> Well that came up pretty nice Phil.


Thanks mate! 

Your care package left today..

----------


## Micky Duck

not sure if Ive mentioned it before,letting the spring tension off bolt when its in storage is a good thing....I had a few misfires early on untill mate put me onto doing it,may just have been hard primers but never had issues again....has added bonus that a bofin cant fit bolt into rifle.
my .223 took the baa out of two house muttons tonight,them hornady bulk pack 55grn loads sure do make thier eyes pop out nicely.

----------


## Wingman

Finally fitted up the last 6mm barrel on the Sako Vixon this  afternoon. I had pre machined and chambered the barrel to streamline the process but murphy thew a few curveballs as usual. 





After removing the old .223 barrel and fitting the 23" blued chromolly barrel  the Stug stock barrel channel needed a little more inletting to clear the slightly heavier barrel.

Then it was off to the chrono with a few test loads. 
Unfortunately there was an issue with a week firing pin spring that needed sorting before we could proceed. 
After a bit of fluffing around I made up a temporary spring spacer to preload the firing pin a bit more as a temporary measure until the spring is replaced. 
My load for my CZ 527 of 26.5gr of H4895 and a 75gr Sierra HP shot 3020fps in it and showed a little pressure, probably due to the faster 1-10" twist so I backed it off to 3000fps with 26gr of H4895 which looked pretty good. 
Loaded up 6 rounds in newly formed PMC brass with a BR-4 primer and took it to the range. 
I was handicapped by a 7 power loopy and didnt have any 30mm Sako rings on hand to swap it out with something bigger so just made do. There was a light wind but not enough to use and an excuse.
1 shot to sight it with a quick adjustment followed by 5 more gave an acceptable half MOA group. 
With some larger optics and a bit of time spent in brass prep and loading this one will be a tack driver.

----------


## Micky Duck

hmmm maybe what I posted above couldve helped prevent the issue in first place LOL.
tidy grouping as always.

----------


## Mathias

Thread revival time, hope @Wingman doesn't mind me using it.

Just did a test fire of a few rounds with my latest 6x45mm creation. Made up from a Sako A1, used Bartlein 6mm 1:8 2B barrel at 20", DPT and Swaro 3-9x40 4A. Desert Guns NZ did the work for me, really happy with Marks skill again.
Wasn't sure how the 1:8 would go with the lighter 75gr loads, nothing to worry about there! The 85gr HPBT Sierra shot equally as well, though I cocked up a good group at the end. I'm not a good paper shooter.
75gr HP Sierra's & H335 were most happy at 2980fps average, 85gr HPBT's & CFE223 at 2796fps average. ES on both were nothing flash and I should be able to lower them with better case prep and seating. 


75gr 3 shot group 7.5mm 


85gr 3 shot group 11.5mm with average shooting from me

----------


## Wingman

Mind? Absolutely not.. the more that share their 6x45s on this thread the better. It will make for a good reference thread for others for years to come.

Nice looking build? What made you go with such such a fast twist with a very limited COAL in the Sako?

----------


## Mathias

> Mind? Absolutely not.. the more that share their 6x45s on this thread the better. It will make for a good reference thread for others for years to come.
> 
> Nice looking build? What made you go with such such a fast twist with a very limited COAL in the Sako?


Cheers.
Barrel became available at the right price from a mate, so that confirmed it. My other Sako 6x45 is on a 1:10 but 23" long and it shoots both these weights in similar fashion, though a bit faster. I was intent on having a shorter more compact gun with this one and there room to go shorter without issue. I'm used to the COAL of these Sako's, to me, its the only negative and all else outweighs this.

----------


## quadhunter260

mean lookin rig Mathias👍😎 this thread is 🤤🤯😳

----------


## Wingman

Ive been saving this box load of 650x Black Hills match brass to neck up and load for mine on a rainy self isolating day..

----------


## Wingman

I shorted my 6x45 barrel down today from 22" to 20" and re threaded/crowned it..

----------


## Dreamer

> Thread revival time, hope @Wingman doesn't mind me using it.
> 
> Just did a test fire of a few rounds with my latest 6x45mm creation. Made up from a Sako A1, used Bartlein 6mm 1:8 2B barrel at 20", DPT and Swaro 3-9x40 4A. Desert Guns NZ did the work for me, really happy with Marks skill again.
> Wasn't sure how the 1:8 would go with the lighter 75gr loads, nothing to worry about there! The 85gr HPBT Sierra shot equally as well, though I cocked up a good group at the end. I'm not a good paper shooter.
> 75gr HP Sierra's & H335 were most happy at 2980fps average, 85gr HPBT's & CFE223 at 2796fps average. ES on both were nothing flash and I should be able to lower them with better case prep and seating. 
> 
> Attachment 133525
> 75gr 3 shot group 7.5mm 
> 
> ...


Geez a lot of that rifle looks vaguely familiar 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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## Tommy

@Wingman what did the 2" do to speeds?

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## Wingman

> @Wingman what did the 2" do to speeds?


Not sure yet, Ill give it a crack over the chrono tomorrow.

----------


## Tommy

> Not sure yet, Ill give it a crack over the chrono tomorrow.


20"..... Sounds like about right aye  :Wink:

----------


## Wingman

> 20"..... Sounds like about right aye


Yeah Im a fan of 18"to 20" with a suppressor. This one is a slower 1-14" twist so gets good velocity over the 1-10" twist with the same load. 
I settled on a 75gr HP load at 3020fps.

You might loose quite a bit of speed cutting your 1-10"  from 23" to 20".

----------


## Tommy

> Yeah Im a fan of 18"to 20" with a suppressor. This one is a slower 1-14" twist so gets good velocity over the 1-10" twist with the same load. 
> I settled on a 75gr HP load at 3020fps.
> 
> You might loose quite a bit of speed cutting your 1-10"  from 23" to 20".


Gah!

----------


## Seventenths

Well, finally took the plunge for a 6x45 of my own... taken 25 years to do it but I'm there. I first got keen on the cartridge after reading a Rod & Rifle magazine which planted a seed and then Mathias who is a very evil man on this forum had his own 6x45 he raved about where he was so evil he sent me some dummy rounds to try in my L461 vixen action.

The .222 barrel was poked on the rifle so with the kindness of a super duper top bugger here on the forum... wonder who that could be  :Wink:  he helped rebarrel the rifle into a 6x45

I managed to get it all back just before lock down and with a few tests of 75 gr Sierras it showed she's a shooter... not sure how better I could get the groupings as the rifle only has a 4x scope but with the vixen action, stock... it's just such a nice gun to shoot.

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## Mathias

@Seventenths about bloody time  ha ha  :36 1 18: 

Looks really good, you'll wonder why you took so long  :Wink:

----------


## Wingman

@Seventenths nice bit of shooting for a 4 power scope mate.. now go fill the freezer  :Thumbsup: 

QUOTE=Tommy;976217]@Wingman what did the 2" do to speeds?[/QUOTE]

2980fps dropped from 3020fps with the 75gr

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## Tommy

> @Seventenths nice bit of shooting for a 4 power scope mate.. now go fill the freezer 
> 
> QUOTE=Tommy;976217]@Wingman what did the 2" do to speeds?


2980fps dropped from 3020fps with the 75gr[/QUOTE]

Not bad at all really

----------


## quadhunter260

some wicked cool 6x45s guys 😎👍😎

----------


## Mathias

> some wicked cool 6x45s guys


Put the plan together Muz, when you can and grace the pages with yours  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Seventenths

Came across this article the other day in a 1977 Gun Digest book.

Reading through the article it struck me that not much has changed with what the author found in his 6x45 and I've found in mine although 43 years difference but still based on a lovely Sako L461... stunning stock!

----------


## Tommy

"Looking at the little Russian M34 7.62x39mm the other day, I wondered what it would do necked to 24 or 25"   .. Called it 15-20 years ahead of time

Man I want a little grendel now.

----------


## Seventenths

> "Looking at the little Russian M34 7.62x39mm the other day, I wondered what it would do necked to 24 or 25"   .. Called it 15-20 years ahead of time
> 
> Man I want a little grendel now.


Funny you mention that... was talking with @Bagheera who has the 6.5 Grendal on a Sako A1... maybe he could post up some pics?

----------


## Mathias

> Funny you mention that... was talking with @Bagheera who has the 6.5 Grendal on a Sako A1... maybe he could post up some pics?


Tricky job to get them to feed from a mag on a vixen action, more success if you have a factory PPC Sako like Bagheera's little G gun.

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

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## Mathias

> Tricky job to get them to feed from a mag on a vixen action, more success if you have a factory PPC Sako like Bagheera's little G gun.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk


https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....60/index2.html

The MAB barrel was no good, it now wears a Hardy.

----------


## Bagheera

Thanks Mathias and Seventenths for good advice today !  Nice to have some spare time to follow things up.

About feeding, I can feed 3 just fine.  Always works. The manual says its 5 shots and they do fit in the mag but they often jam for one reason or another.  Fiddling with the spring can't fix it.   I think it was the same when it was a 6mm PPC.  Possibly a new mag spring would be in order if I can find one.  You do have to be careful when reassembling it as the mag box can easily be out of whack.

I haven't got a good pic just on hand but I can tell you its very nice to carry.

----------


## Beavis

Do these offer any real world advantage over a 223 running heavies? I have mountains of 223 brass and am considering buying some more guns to make use of it and my 223 loading gear again.

----------


## Wingman

> Do these offer any real world advantage over a 223 running heavies? I have mountains of 223 brass and am considering buying some more guns to make use of it and my 223 loading gear again.


The main advantage the 6x45 offers over .223 is the availability of heavier and more suitable deer bullets. The .223 is still a great multi purpose cheap caetridge but the bullets on offer without going to the pricey mono's are generally very light jacketed varmint suited bullets. 

6x45 broadens the usefulness of the rifle making it a great allrounder as you can still load  55gr-70gr bullets for the varmints but you can alternatively load a wide range of .243 75-100gr bullets for bigger animals. 
It a great little cartridge that almost matches the humble .308 win for variation of bullets available and very suited to woman and kids alike with its lack of recoil, although still carries enough energy to drop a decent red with a shoulder shot out to about 300m. 

I have not shot my .223 rem in a long time, since I built the .22 TCM in fact. For me personally I just feel the .223 is a little too much for the varminting I do which is generally inside 300m and have been using the .22TCM and .17 Mach IV for that now.
In my eyes the .223 is more suited to the open country varminting of wallabies, hares and rabbits to 500-600m goats to about 300m and the occasional closer range head or neck shot on bigger deer. 
.223 is also a great range cartridge with its cheap bulk ammo availability you can plink away all day with it without breaking the bank.
So in summery the 6x45 will do all of the above but arguably adds a bit more confidence of smack down and range on deer.

----------


## Steelisreal

> Do these offer any real world advantage over a 223 running heavies? I have mountains of 223 brass and am considering buying some more guns to make use of it and my 223 loading gear again.


You definitely should build one! There's quite a few of us who really want to have a 6*45 but can't afford to just yet. Give it a go so we can live vicariously through your experiences. Cheers  :Have A Nice Day: 

PS Once the 223 version of the flush floorplate magazines for the Howa Mini make their way down here to NZ we'll have a brilliant action to build these on - happy days!

----------


## Mathias

> Once the 223 version of the flush floorplate magazines for the Howa Mini make their way down here to NZ we'll have a brilliant action to build these on - happy days!


Absolutely correct, that rifle & flush mag combo screams make me a 6x45  :Thumbsup:

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## Tommy

Or even just the bottom metal, there's plenty of cheap slow twist Howas out there

----------


## Wingman

I totally agree, that little Howa mini action is a great base for many small highly efficient wildcats. 

The 7.62x 39 and 6.5 Grendel actions also lend themselves well to tinkering. There are very few mini actions out there as affordable and versatile as these Howas. 
before the Howa,  getting more grunt from the .223 cartridge by necking up etc was generally a better/cheaper option than hunting down a sako or CZ action suitable to feed often the overlooked 6mm PPC for example. The 6x45 actually runs the same ballistic numbers as the 6mm PPC with 1gr or 2gr less powder with all other variables equal.

My interest has now been sparked in 6x45's cousin, the 6mmTCU which is essentially 6x45 Ackley improved, with its blown out straighter side walls and blown forward 40 deg shoulder it allows a couple of extra grain of powder meaning a gain of 150-200fps in most cases over the 6x45.

Another interesting build would be the 6.5 TCU or 6.5x45 which on paper would match the ballistics of the 6.5 Grendel. This cartridge like the 6mm TCU was developed by the late JD Jones for use in 14- 15" long barrelled Thompson Contender pistols for competition silhouette shooting but was adopted by hunters alike for its very usable velocity, range and knock down power. To get the best from these two variants, you really need either a single shot action or the mag room to load them out long. A Rem 700 or Howa mini with a floor plate could be just the key. 
Ive formed and loaded up some dummy rounds of each to show the cartridges in discussion.

----------


## Micky Duck

I love my wee .223 and find it versitile enough....... I do carry a few of the expensive monos for deer/pigs.... but in saying that have been very impressed with the hornady bulk pack 55grn stuff
the 50grn zmax/vmax work awesome on small stuff and wallabies
this mini EBRG sure does look the bizo.....now to put fly in ointment/go full circle
how light of 6mm mono can you buy and how fast can you stoke it along????? always thought something like 75grns from EBRG honking along would be an awesome deer load ,given how well 50grns work from .223

----------


## Wingman

> How light of 6mm mono can you buy and how fast can you stoke it along????? always thought something like 75grns from EBRG honking along would be an awesome deer load ,given how well 50grns work from .223


The Barnes 6mm TTSX is 80gr. I havent tested them personally as the copper bullets are quite long and wont stabilize in my slower 1-14" twist. However I can load both the 80gr sp and 85gr HPBT to just over 3000fps with a hot load and they both stabilize in my barrel as they are shorter bullets. Personally I favour the Sierra 75gr flat base hollow points though. They shoot great at 3000fps with a more modest load.

----------


## Micky Duck

and Im plurry sure any deer would be in BIG trouble if you had them in your sights.

----------


## Beavis

So you are better off with a slower twist in this cartridge for more velocity? How are they with a fast twist barrel and 105gr low drag pills?

----------


## Wingman

> So you are better off with a slower twist in this cartridge for more velocity? How are they with a fast twist barrel and 105gr low drag pills?


Personally I have grown to like the slower twist. Ive built several others now with 1-10" twists and they show a drop in velocity with the same loads even with longer barrels than my 1-14" twist. Mine absolutely loves the 75gr HPs so I am happy running those exclusively. 
  @Mathias has built a 1-8" 6x45 and has some pics and info on it on page 8 of this thread, maybe he can comment on shooting 90gr+? 
 I would guess mag length would be the biggest drawback when loading the 100gr- 105gr bullets. if you cant load them long you are taking up a good chunk of powder space. In most of the repeater .223 actions Ive checked, you are limited to a max 58-59mm OAL

----------


## Mathias

Not played with anything over 85gr.....yet. I don't have anything in the box either to try, though I might get a sampler pack of 105 or 108gr Hornady ELD to try. These will be single feed to try for s&g only.  @takbok did try some 105 Amax I believe in his 1:8 6x45. He may be able to offer some info.

----------


## Seventenths

@Mathias, if you want to try some 95 gr Targex, happy to send you some?

----------


## Friwi

You could load them long into a R.E.M. 700 or an Howa with the mag spacer taken out maybe? You would have to get the barrel throated longer though to make the most of it.

----------


## takbok

I've shot the 105gr A-max in my 1:8 6x45, 2.360" OAL to fit my Sako 75 magazine. I was getting just over 2500fps. Did the job on one deer until I switched to 62gr copper bullets.

I've also tried 95gr SMK's. I ran out of case capacity with Vihtavuori N130 so need to try a faster powder.

I've got some 90gr Gamechangers sitting here to try also.

----------


## takbok

> how light of 6mm mono can you buy and how fast can you stoke it along????? always thought something like 75grns from EBRG honking along would be an awesome deer load ,given how well 50grns work from .223


I use the 62gr GSC copper monolithics @3350fps for deer in my 6x45 - very effective! (25.5gr Reloder 7, CCI450 primers)

----------


## Mathias

> @Mathias, if you want to try some 95 gr Targex, happy to send you some?


All good mate, thanks for the offer but for fun I'll try something over 100gr. I did find some 105gr Speer fence posts hidden away, be interesting who they go  :Grin:

----------


## quadhunter260

@Mathias bloody hell that looks like a load for rampaging rodents up close 😁😂

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## Friwi

It has that 416 Rigby look :-)

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## Micky Duck

Ive got small supply of its big brother....170grn in .277    and yes they hit HARD.

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## csmiffy

@Micky Duck they stabilise ok in normal twist barrels then?

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## Micky Duck

hell yes.....some very respectable groups....I believe it helps MY rifle as its got a long jump to throat....these pills must put it close to rifling or maybe just being long and soft they enguage rifling better...WARNING you will probably have to unscrew seating die itself as the seating stem may not go high enough....I screw stem in a couple of threads worth then screw die itself down on a loaded round untill handle jiggles then call it good.

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## Micky Duck

also they being fat...arent that long,which I believe is the issue with heavies...the 160grn lapua magas were the same.

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## Wingman

More down time has me tinkering again.. I got thinking.. I run a 223 rem with a 69gr TMK at 3100fps, a .22 TCM with a 40gr Vmax at 3100 fps, a 6x45 with a 75gr Sierra HP at 3000fps, what might a 6mm TCM run with a 55gr Nosler BT?



Could this little micro 6mm be a 300yd medium game cartridge with a 16-18" barrel if I could get 2800-3000fps from it with that reasonably solid Nosler BT, a sneeze weight of Alliant 300MP and a small pistol primer?

----------


## Seventenths

Go on... you know you wanna!

As Nike say... Just do it!

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## quadhunter260

223s are girly til theyve had to the op to 6x45 or 6TCU via Doc Wingman 😎

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## Wingman

I just ordered a new custom 6x45 reamer today with zero free bore so it should shoot a wider range of bullets better with less jump.

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## Friwi

You should have AI'ed it. That would have been sexier :-)

----------


## Wingman

Still can I have that one too

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## Barefoot

> I just ordered a new custom 6x45 reamer today with zero free bore so it should shoot a wider range of bullets better with less jump.


When do you think that might be making it to these shores? Asking for a friend who may have had a barrel turn up on the courier this afternoon  :ORLY:

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## Wingman

Should be here in a week to 10 days..

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## Mikey-p

I have a big shout out to give @Wingman for selling me the zastava he built. Not only is it a pretty wee rifle, it shoots like a lazer and it doesn't weigh a tonne.
Will post pics of my next hunt with it as I was waaaay too busy shooting it to take pics  :Grin:

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## Wingman

Ill join ya next time as I will no longer be working weekends.. its time for me to get out and get hill fit again.
 I might even put you in front of a  a deer with it. The reds are back out on that goat property we hunted down the road from me

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## southernman

[QUOTE=Wingman;1008235]More down time has me tinkering again.. I got thinking.. I run a 223 rem with a 69gr TMK at 3100fps, a .22 TCM with a 40gr Vmax at 3100 fps, a 6x45 with a 75gr Sierra HP at 3000fps, what might a 6mm TCM run with a 55gr Nosler BT?

My 6x47 rem will run a 55 gr at 3500 fps, don't think there is much difference, in case capacity between the 6x47 Remington and 6TCU. i had better accuracy with the 58gr v-max and 50fps slower.

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## Wingman

[QUOTE=southernman;1033589]


> More down time has me tinkering again.. I got thinking.. I run a 223 rem with a 69gr TMK at 3100fps, a .22 TCM with a 40gr Vmax at 3100 fps, a 6x45 with a 75gr Sierra HP at 3000fps, what might a 6mm TCM run with a 55gr Nosler BT?
> 
> My 6x47 rem will run a 55 gr at 3500 fps, don't think there is much difference, in case capacity between the 6x47 Remington and 6TCU. i had better accuracy with the 58gr v-max and 50fps slower.


Yip I was pondering the tiny 6mm TCM not the 6mm TCU though

----------


## Barefoot

Well the other week Wingman worked his magic on my work project
What he received was a lefthand Zastava with a so-so 223 barrel and an as-new 243 savage lightweight barrel,
What I got back was a 18.5" 6x45  :Thumbsup: 
This left me to give the stock a reshape to better suit me which led to this - 



After a balls up of some brass and a failed testing earlier in the week I received some solid advise from Wingman.
This led me to prep from scratch followed by a real test today leading to this final 4 shot group for the day at 75m (longest distance I could set up out of the wind).



I think its a keeper.
Thanks Wingman

----------


## Wingman

That stock came up nice! 
That group should tighten up with a bit more velocity and a few more rounds to run the barrel in.   
Im going to re-do my chamber with this new zero freebore reamer too, It will give a few more options for projectiles without the big jump from the short seating to fit the mag.

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## Micky Duck

if that group tightened up any more it would grow a hyman (however you spell it) once again your work shows awesome results Wingman.

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## Wingman

> if that group tightened up any more it would grow a hyman (however you spell it) once again your work shows awesome results Wingman.


I must have got lucky on other one huh? 
Everyone knows you need a $5000 custom build and a $1000 new match barrel to shoot little groups.. :Thumbsup:

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## mikee

> I must have got lucky on other one huh? 
> Everyone knows you need a $5000 custom build and a $1000 new match barrel to shoot little groups..


Well I learnt you must buy your rifle from the Local H&F raather than the local custom builder if you want something that a) works the way it should and b) actually has back up and support

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## Micky Duck

> I must have got lucky on other one huh? 
> Everyone knows you need a $5000 custom build and a $1000 new match barrel to shoot little groups..


skills not luck...from what Ive seen you are fit to be called a tradesman/craftsman of the gunsmithing variety.......thats not something that can be said of every outfit with a lathe, screwing bits on rifles.LEGO rifles .

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## Wingman

Thanks @Micky Duck I better make sure I only keep sharing what I want you to see then.. 

I had a play with my lego rifle today, re-cut the chamber with the new zero freebore reamer. 



Took it out with the favored 75gr Sierra HP loads which shoot around 3000fps and shot two 3 shot grouos and two 5 shot groups, it didnt disappoint. 
There was a light wind and it was the first time Ive shot groups on paper since March but they were all under 1/2MOA with one at 1/4MOA.
It will be interesting to see if I can get some of the other projectiles in the 70-85gr weight range to shoot better than they did with the longer jump to lands.

----------


## Micky Duck

yeah nah...thats not clicked together like lego.its been made with care and attention to detail.... and the plywood stock looks great too....
keep up the great work.

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## Seventenths

Well I just got my 6x45 back from Gunworks so here's another shoutout for such a fine job!

My 6x45 has a rather shiny barrel to it and on a sunny day you really do need to wear sunglasses because of the shine on the barrel.







So I've been humming and harring about it and finally sent it off to Gunworks for a Jenny Craig weight loss with some fluting and getting rid of the 'super bling' with a good old sand blast to dull that barrel!

I'm stoked with the turn around and I'm super stoked with the work done!!!















I did weigh the rifle before it left for Gunworks but in all honesty I don't trust those scales and I suppose anyone going on a weight loss program would say those scales are lying!

What i do know is the rifle is noticeably lighter but also better balanced both when carrying in your hands and shouldering to use.

----------


## Barefoot

Looking good there Seventenths  :Thumbsup:

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## Mathias

Very sexy @Seventenths just what it needed 

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

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## Wingman

@Seventenths That looks great mate! 
What loads did you end up running?  Ive just loaded some different projectiles today to test in mine

----------


## Seventenths

75 gr Sierras with 25 gr AR2206H

I'm loading up a few more tomorrow  :Thumbsup:

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## Micky Duck

@Seventenths Im guessing that sexy scope doesnt have any letters before its serial number???? eg its made before 1974   just like mine LOL. lovely looking rifle.

----------


## Timmay

Hypothetically speaking, if someone wanted to rechamber a .223 Model 7, what 6mm barrel could they start with? would a 243 have enough meat to be cut back and rechambered or do you have to go new barrel from the likes of gun works?

----------


## Timmay

> 75 gr Sierras with 25 gr AR2206H
> 
> I'm loading up a few more tomorrow


 @Seventenths Seems like a mild load?

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## Wingman

> Hypothetically speaking, if someone wanted to rechamber a .223 Model 7, what 6mm barrel could they start with? would a 243 have enough meat to be cut back and rechambered or do you have to go new barrel from the likes of gun works?


Depends on the .243 barrels knox profile/length.
The Rem Mod 7 has a 1-1/6" tenon thread and needs to be about another 1/4" larger than that for the shoulder to pull up on the recoil lug.  
Ive cut down quite a few .243win barrels for 6x45s but most for smaller tenon threads such as Sako, CZ and Zastavas

----------


## Timmay

Ok, thank you, Might be better for me just to price up a new barrel.. any ideas on costing roughtly?

----------


## Seventenths

> @Seventenths Seems like a mild load?
> 
> Attachment 147391


@ Timmay it might seem a mild load and probably is but I have the projectiles seated out as far as I could so I am limited with the L461 action.

I have tried 25.5 gr AR2206H but its a compressed load with pressure signs very apparent, accuracy the same but Id rather stay on the side of caution.

I dont have quickload but if you run the figures for AR2206H what is the optimum powder load?

Also what powder does quickload recommend for the 6x45?

As for a barrel... PM Wingman for some very sound advice!!!  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Timmay

> @ Timmay it might seem a mild load and probably is but I have the projectiles seated out as far as I could so I am limited with the L461 action.
> 
> I have tried 25.5 gr AR2206H but its a compressed load with pressure signs very apparent, accuracy the same but Id rather stay on the side of caution.
> 
> I dont have quickload but if you run the figures for AR2206H what is the optimum powder load?
> 
> Also what powder does quickload recommend for the 6x45?
> 
> As for a barrel... PM Wingman for some very sound advice!!!


  @Seventenths Give me your OAL of the load mate I'll run a figure that matches that for you as increasing the OAL will DECREASE the pressure and fps generally speaking  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Wingman

25gr of 2206H is the listed starting load for the 6x45 with 27gr being the max load.
Im showing primer craters in mine with 26.5gr of 2206H and the 75gr  but my barrel is a 1-14" slow twist and has a COAL of 59mm.
The Sako and Zastavas are limited to a COAL of  about 46-47mm and have the faster 1-10 and 1-9 twist so will show pressure much sooner. 
H355 is probably a better powder for that situation as it is less bulky.

----------


## Barefoot

Yeah, loads are going to be designed around mag and action length for all the mini actions. A model 7 is a larger action so you should be able to take advantage of the extra length.

----------


## Barefoot

Alternative projectiles which might interest 6x45 users arrived today - Targex 70gr flat base, hollow point.

Length



Comparison to 85gr Sierra

----------


## Wingman

Those Targex look the bizzo for my 1-14" twist.. I wonder if the jackets are as thick as the 75gr Sierra HPs.
My barrel really likes the 75gr Sierra HP and the 70gr Nosler Varmageddon.
The Noslers have to be seated a bit deeper due to the polymer tip and longer ogive but with 26.5gr of 2206H they are pretty racy and flat at 3100fps.
I need to retest them in the next few days to see if the new chamber has improved thier groups

----------


## Timmay

@gimp I see a few years back you made a post on an american shooting forum about an extended Model 7 box mag but still shotting a .223... Did you end up finding one?

----------


## Wingman

@Timmay what is the max COAL your Mod 7 mag can handle currently?

----------


## Moa Hunter

@Wingman, what happened to the 6.5 x 47 you were working on a while back ?

----------


## Timmay

It's 60.5mm. although it's just a bit of bent steel thats used as a mag box reducer.

----------


## gimp

> @gimp I see a few years back you made a post on an american shooting forum about an extended Model 7 box mag but still shotting a .223... Did you end up finding one?


That was a long time ago! I've now got a model 7 .223 using a CDI bottom metal for AICS mags, using Accurate Mag 5 rounders allows like a 2.6" OAL or something, heaps for good high bc heavy bullets

----------


## Wingman

> @Wingman, what happened to the 6.5 x 47 you were working on a while back ?


Its my mid to longrange hunting rig. Full write up here;

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....7-lapua-48184/

----------


## Wingman

> It's 60.5mm. although it's just a bit of bent steel thats used as a mag box reducer.


Thats still longer than any other mag Ive built a 6x45 on. That would let you play with the longer high bc bullets for sure

----------


## Timmay

> That was a long time ago! I've now got a model 7 .223 using a CDI bottom metal for AICS mags, using Accurate Mag 5 rounders allows like a 2.6" OAL or something, heaps for good high bc heavy bullets


Thanks gimp, yeah I was doing a lot of digging on the mod7  223. Ah so you now use mags, gotcha, as mine will be a carry rifle I want to keep the floor flat. Do you know where I am able to buy model 7 replacement box mags for say a 308 so I can have a play modifying one?

----------


## Seventenths

@Timmay I'm running my 6x45 with a COAL of 58.70 mm for the L461 action

Keen to see what quickload recommends.

----------


## Moa Hunter

> Its my mid to longrange hunting rig. Full write up here;
> 
> https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....7-lapua-48184/


Enjoyed the re-read of those 297 pages ! So are your loads and opinions unchanged ?
Also had a re-think on a Bull-Pup, might be the very best solution for an easy carry rifle. Even if it is no lighter than a conventional long arm there is less weight leverage (if that is the right term) from a long barrel hanging away from the shoulder. Fond memories of using the Steyr AUG in TF

----------


## Wingman

> Enjoyed the re-read of those 297 pages ! So are your loads and opinions unchanged ?
> Also had a re-think on a Bull-Pup, might be the very best solution for an easy carry rifle. Even if it is no lighter than a conventional long arm there is less weight leverage (if that is the right term) from a long barrel hanging away from the shoulder. Fond memories of using the Steyr AUG in TF


Yip still love it.. my favourite cartridge for sure.
Still running the same load of 41gr RL16 with the 130gr TMK at 2900fps.

----------


## Timmay

> @Timmay I'm running my 6x45 with a COAL of 58.70 mm for the L461 action
> 
> Keen to see what quickload recommends.


I would be looking right around 25.5gns 2206H 2700fps ish on a 20" tube

----------


## Wingman

Clean cold bore 5 shot group at 100m with the 70gr Noslers in new unfired Lapua brass this afternoon.

----------


## Mathias

Time for some more 6x45 talk  :Wink: 
My son & I had a few days away in the Marlborough high country cleaning up a few goats with our Sako 6x45's. Both running 75gr Sierra HP, we accounted for 80+ and 3 pigs. Shots ranged from about 25 to 290 yards and these bullets performed flawlessly, with most being instant bang flops or the spectacular free fall off the bluffs we call aerial burial's. 

This recovered bullet came from a goat I shot quartering on from rear at 45yrds, entered at rear rib and was recovered from off shoulder under the skin, it weighs 31.4gr.



Happiness is plenty of shooting  :Have A Nice Day: 



A couple of billy's from the trip.

----------


## Micky Duck

> I would be looking right around 25.5gns 2206H 2700fps ish on a 20" tube


so pretty darn close to the .223 load some folks were using ........ hard case really.

----------


## Wingman

Now that looks like a fun day out! @Mathias

Thanks to @Barefoot for a handful of the 70gr Targex hollow points to try out, Ive loaded them up in new Lapua brass but been waiting for a still day to test them. The good ol spring winds have started again which puts a nasty westerly across my range and I want to give them a fair windless trial. 
The bullets look well made with very consistent weights and dimensions so I hope they shoot well too.
Ive only shot the .224 69gr Targex in the past which were a very accurate bullet, they did the bizzo on a few goats too.

----------


## Mathias

@Wingman, watching with interest on these. I have some Targex 80gr FB from Bryn but they're too long for me, these could be just the ticket.

----------


## Wingman

Man you just got to love these bluebird warm still spring days.. I know the 6x45 did!
I warmed the barrel with 4 rounds of 70gr nosler then 2 5 shot groups of the 70gr FB Targex. Zero load work up.. just dumped in 26.5gr of H4895 to new Lapua brass with a CCI BR4 primer and Yeahaaa..
Could even see my heartbeat in the reticle as Id just downed a nice strong espresso with breakfast but man did these kiwi bullets perform!

----------


## Mathias

Run them over the crony at all @Wingman? I'll give them a go as well some day soon. Mint shooting man.

----------


## Wingman

Yip 3030fps AV

----------


## Seventenths

Well done Wingman and Mathias on your 6x45... Well done indeed  :Thumbsup:  :Thumbsup: 

Bit of an update on mine.

Well I sent my rifle off to Gunworks to have the barrel fluted and dulled and the blinding stainless was just too much "bling" but when i got the rifle back I was off to the range and it shot shit... 2 inch groupings at 100 mtrs is not acceptable so i took it apart, put it back together thinking it's me and not the rifle with setting the barreled action into it's stock.

No matter what I tried something was a miss so i sent it off to get bedded.

It came back Thursday so I tested it over the weekend and produced this nice wee group at 100 mtrs with 4x scope.



So I tried it again and the grouping opened up to 1/4 inch which is still in the confines of Eric Cortina's threshold  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 

I've ordered in some 70 gr Targex projectiles to give a try as I used to run 95 gr ones in my old .243 and they killed really well  :Thumbsup:  


 yesterday

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## Mathias

Shit your peepers must be way better than mine  @Seventenths, I need at least 9 power to shoot at a target  :Grin: 

Oh...and great shooting too  :Wink:

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## Wingman

@Seventenths sheesh man I bet that had you nervous.. Ive seen a good shooting barrel come back from fluting like a scatter gun before! Im glad it was an easy fix.
Nice little bug holes there too. Let us know how the Targex go in yours

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## Seventenths

> @Seventenths sheesh man I bet that had you nervous.. Ive seen a good shooting barrel come back from fluting like a scatter gun before! Im glad it was an easy fix.
> Nice little bug holes there too. Let us know how the Targex go in yours


I've heard that can happen but haven't looked into why it happens but yes I was a little nervous!

Anyway... everything is finally functioning the way it's supposed to and I have a great wee calibre!

 @Mathias... I'm glad I didn't fire a forth shot... murphy would have shown up!

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## Timmay

What does their fluting job look like Seventenths?

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## Seventenths

> What does their fluting job look like Seventenths?


Spot on... no rough edges, burrs or blemishes in the machining.

They then sand/bead blasted the barrel so it has the same dull finish as a tikka fluted barrel.

In actual fact I would compare it to a fluted tikka barrel but for the record its a trueflite barrel.

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## Wingman

> What does their fluting job look like Seventenths?


He posted pics of it on page 12 mate

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## Seventenths

As mentioned above I order some Targex 70 gr FB projectiles to try out but waited until my new scope showed up.

I stepped up in zoom buying a Leupold 2-7 and sent it to NOIA in Australia where they installed a CDS turret.

It arrived back this week so I popped out yesterday to zero the scope.

Tested the Targex projectiles at 25 & 25.5 gr of AR2206H powder weights

25.5 gr gave me flat primers so I was certainly at the higher pressure for that load in my rifle.

Apologies as I didnt take any photos of the groups but groupings were near identical with 25 gr at 1/2 inch at 100 mtrs and 25.5 gr a tad bigger.

The 70 gr Sierras with 25 gr AR2206H still shoot the tightest.

I was running out of light but it was good to do initial dial checks out to 300 mtrs

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## Bill999

It would be hard to ignore that first load with ho well that shot
Any chance of an update pic?

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## Mikey-p

thanks for building me this rifle wingman.
It sore brings them down!

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## takbok

Very nice @Mikey-p , welcome to the 6x45 club!

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## Mathias

> Very nice @Mikey-p , welcome to the 6x45 club!


Ditto

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## Mikey-p

Had some trepidation with shooting 85 hpbt's but this thing just collapsed.
Expanded beautifully. 
My favourite rifle

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## GWH

@Mikey-p what rifle did you start with?

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## Mathias

> Had some trepidation with shooting 85 hpbt's but this thing just collapsed.
> Expanded beautifully. 
> My favourite rifle


Pleased to hear those 85 hpbt's work, they shoot well in mine but not actually shot any animals yet.

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## Wingman

> @Mikey-p what rifle did you start with?


It is the old dunger dirty old Zastava M85 on page 7 of this thread that I threw together and gave away.. 
Bunged on a stainless barrel like lipstick on a pig and @Mikey-p fell in love with it.

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## Micky Duck

wash thy mouth out right now you heathen.....dirty ol Zastava.......oh boy thats a low blow,must take mine out for a walk now,hares, rabbits and maybe a cheeky porker if Im in luck.... struth,whats not to love about them....now that bipod???looks like a cheapy off trademe,are they any good???

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## Wingman

> wash thy mouth out right now you heathen.....dirty ol Zastava.......oh boy thats a low blow,must take mine out for a walk now,hares, rabbits and maybe a cheeky porker if Im in luck.... struth,whats not to love about them....now that bipod???looks like a cheapy off trademe,are they any good???


Ha! The predictable bite from MD.. good fishing today.
The bipod is a dirty old Harris.. pulled it off my .22lr for the photos

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## Tentman

OK - now now guys.  The oldest rule with scrapping kids - distraction, so a question . . . . 

If one has a Remmy 700 action with a 223 bolt-face, is there enough of a gain in ballistics to go 6mm ARC over 6x45??

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## GWH

> OK - now now guys.  The oldest rule with scrapping kids - distraction, so a question . . . . 
> 
> If one has a Remmy 700 action with a 223 bolt-face, is there enough of a gain in ballistics to go 6mm ARC over 6x45??


Ha i was about to ask a similar question comparing 6x45  to the 6 ARC

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## Micky Duck

well 5 less hares are eating the boss's crops now......super reliable Zastava did the bizo AGAIN LOL....
the sub $40 bipods on trademe look very similar...maybe a chinesium knock off???

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## Hunter_Nick

Well after 14 years away from this little sweetheart of a cartridge, I’m about to fall in love again.

Just bought a BSA Hunter converted to 6x45 from a good mate and mentor of mine. It is the last of four that he has built for himself over the years. Excited to be part of the ‘club’ again. 

Will post photos when I get my hands on her.

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## southernman

> OK - now now guys.  The oldest rule with scrapping kids - distraction, so a question . . . . 
> 
> If one has a Remmy 700 action with a 223 bolt-face, is there enough of a gain in ballistics to go 6mm ARC over 6x45??


I believe the 6MM arc is 6 PPC case size, essentially a 6PPC with a faster twist, 
 thus your .223 bolt face, will need to be opened up, 
 I have a Sako 6PPC and coopers in 6x47 Remington (.222 mag) and 6x45, they are all with in a 50-100fps of each other, better brass for the 6PPC and 6x45 so i can push them harder, 
my single shot cooper 6x47 Remington is more accurate than the other two, and lighter, with faster speeds, with 75gr weight (50fps)but only 1-14 twist, (3030)fps, my 6x45 is 3000fps, the Sako A1 sporter in 6PPC, is (3000fps) best accuracy was slight slower, 3113fps was starting to get pretty hot, Sako brass, 
All these are 29-30grain case capacity. 6x45 20" barrel the other two are 22"
  A 6mm-204 or 6 TCU will give more slightly more speed,  at the cost of custom dies and perhaps feed issues with the sharp shoulder, I dont think there is enough gain for the extra costs.
 I recommend going, with the one that fits your bolt face, and has the most aviable components. (brass)

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## caberslash

No one running a CZ 527?

Reckon these would be great in 6 ARC!

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## southernman

I've got a CZ 527 American in 6.5 Grendel, not overly impressed with this cartridge/or this CZ 527, was intending to chop rifle back to 18" for a bush rifle, now i am going to sell it, as have bought a used Barret fieldcraft, much better to carry,

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## GWH

> I've got a CZ 527 American in 6.5 Grendel, not overly impressed with this cartridge/or this CZ 527, was intending to chop rifle back to 18" for a bush rifle, now i am going to sell it, as have bought a used Barret fieldcraft, much better to carry,


Oh dear, poor build quality on that particular example?  And here was me wanting to get another 527 after i have completely fallen in love with your old 17 Hornet.

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## Tentman

Interesting.  The 6mm-204 would seem to be the best bet in a "medium" action with a .378 boltface.  I think the key is to get something that will run at 30gns powder or a tiny bit under - with reasonable projectiles this produces enough energy to knock over all NZ game, and suppressors very effectively with contemporary suppressors.

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## Mathias

> Interesting.  The 6mm-204 would seem to be the best bet in a "medium" action with a .378 boltface.  I think the key is to get something that will run at 30gns powder or a tiny bit under - with reasonable projectiles this produces enough energy to knock over all NZ game, and suppressors very effectively with contemporary suppressors.


I agree, if you have the mag length to handle the OAL length required for the 6mm-204 it would be a great middle weight 6mm pushing 87gr over 3000fps. I think the Howa Mini with the Jefferson bottom metal has a mag OAL of over 60mm, this could be a good contender for this cartridge.
I like my 6x45 for the amount of cheap brass and I don't care if I loose some in the heat of action, the 204 case however, I think I would be on my hands and knees in the long grass  :Grin:

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## GWH

Ive been interested in the 6x45 for years now and have been keeping an eye on this thread, you guys have some super neat little rifles chambered for this cartridge and it sure seems great use of the 223 case and is quite efficient. You'd all pretty much convinced me I needed one.......

.......... but i have a lovely little original Model 7 243 win here that has been re-barreled with a Trueflight barrel, finished at 18 inches.  It shoots full power 85gr HPBT Sierras super well, so i'll probably just download that using IMR 4198, 28-32 gr with either a 85gr HPBT or an 87gr Vmax and get around 2800 fps and try the kids on that when they are ready to step up.  Transfer the short LOP youth stock on it and away they go, then as they grow and can tolerate a bit more recoil i can just step the loads up.

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## southernman

> Oh dear, poor build quality on that particular example?  And here was me wanting to get another 527 after i have completely fallen in love with your old 17 Hornet.


This ones a bit rougher in the bolt ramps, I've polished it up, better now, more a comment, against not seeing any advantage, in the 6.5 Grendel, I've got several 6.5's, plus the sticky down mag, is a pain in the ass, to carry in your hand all day, I tried it and prefer the Sako 6PPC, cooper 6x47 and 6.5x54 mannlicher as carry rifle's,

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## Micky Duck

@Dusty Fog hasnt chimed in yet....he has a couple of 6.5-204s and shoots all manner of beasties with them....

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## Hunter_Nick

Well here it is, my new 6x45. Just got back from collecting him last night.



BSA Regent Featherweight circa ‘56-‘63. Sako .243 1-10” barrel repurposed, custom mini gunworks can. Bolt stroke lengthened, custom 7 shot titanium magazine 2.435” (61.9mm) long. 
Leupold 3-9x40
It’s been a long wait to have a 6x45 back in my hands, can’t wait to get out and drop the hammer on something.

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## Micky Duck

now THAT is a work rifle if ever Ive seen one...... bet it could tell some tales/tails......

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## Hunter_Nick

> now THAT is a work rifle if ever Ive seen one...... bet it could tell some tales/tails......


It sure can. It has been owned by a very good friend and mentor for a number of years, he took a lot of game with it as a .223 before building his 4th 6x45 on it.

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## Hunter_Nick

Finally got to do some load development for the new 6x45. Nothing ground breaking, but happy with the results given most of the components were bits and bobs that I had lying around.


85gr Sierra HPBT 25.5gr 2206H

Couldn’t get any more powder in the case, this charge was heavily compressed. I think the sako brass has a low internal volume compared to other makes of brass.

What I was most happy with though, was the new fibreglass stock that I have just finished for it. These old BSA stocks all tend to break through the grip, and as I’d wanted to make a stock for some time, now was the time. Many thanks to @takbok for all the advice! The stock ended up 260gm lighter than the original too, so that was a bonus.

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## Hunter_Nick

Perfect start point for someone wanting a 6x45....

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...ing/3093946503

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...ing/3086895655

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## Mathias

I reckon a Remmy 788 or one of the Howa minis would also be good candidates for improvement. 

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

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## Hunter_Nick

> I reckon a Remmy 788 or one of the Howa minis would also be good candidates for improvement. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk


And speaking of a Rem 788.... the mate that inspired me to build 6x45s built his first on one

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketpl...ing/3090080044

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## DUCKHUNTER

Okay so I'm almost convinced - Would a Remington Model 7 be a good option to convert ??

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## Russian 22.

> Okay so I'm almost convinced - Would a Remington Model 7 be a good option to convert ??


Probably cheaper to get a howa micro action or mini action and then get a barrel and stock of your choice.

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## DUCKHUNTER

Just not a fan of the mini action (especially the detachable mag) - my 2nd choice would be a Zastava Mini Mauser - but figured a model 7 would give me excellent mag length

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## Mathias

> Okay so I'm almost convinced - Would a Remington Model 7 be a good option to convert ??


Great choice

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## Wingman

After a year off all things work related I am now back smithing full time, anyone wants a 6x45 barrel job give me a yell. 
Can also offer a dealer to dealer postal service to those out of the Waikato region.

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## DUCKHUNTER

Thanks @Wingman - Thoughts on a Model 7 Action Donor ??

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## Wingman

> Thanks @Wingman - Thoughts on a Model 7 Action Donor ??


That will work just fine

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## Hunter_Nick

Thought I’d add this to the thread @Wingman if that’s ok? May be useful data for someone.

Found a good load for my 6x45 today. 18” barrel 1-10 twist.

70gr Ballistic Tip
BM8208
Winchester case
RWS primer. 

I’ve settled on 26.3gr, as a max useable to keep case life ok. No need to push it, velocity is good. Book max is 27gr, and very very hot in my rifle. At 26.8gr I was getting 2950fps but stiff extraction and very flat primers.

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## Wingman

> Thought I’d add this to the thread @Wingman if that’s ok? May be useful data for someone.


Absolutely, the more info here the better! 

Which ballistic tip 70gr projectiles were they?

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## Hunter_Nick

Just the good ole purple tip Noslers

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## Hunter_Nick

A little more info for those interested in the 6x45.

I cut the base off a few different 6mm projectiles, and melted the lead out in order to measure jacket thickness. I also
Measured the hollow point left, as it will also indicate the rate of expansion on impact.

Sierra 100gr Pro Hunter: 0.028” jacket 0.065” hollow point
Rem 100gr Core Lokt:     0.026” jacket 0.070” hollow point 
Hornady 87gr SP:           0.019” jacket 0.095” hollow point
Sierra 85gr SPT Varminter: 0.019” jacket 0.065” hollow point 
Sierra 85gr HPBT G.K.     0.019” jacket 0.050” hollow point
Speer 80gr SP:               0.020” jacket 0.100 hollow point

I’d be interested to see the figures for a few others (that I don’t have) 
Sierra 70gr Match King
Sierra 70gr HP Varminter

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## mikee

> Thought I’d add this to the thread @Wingman if that’s ok? May be useful data for someone.
> 
> Found a good load for my 6x45 today. 18” barrel 1-10 twist.
> 
> 70gr Ballistic Tip
> BM8208
> Winchester case
> RWS primer. 
> 
> ...


Thats interesting as I use 8208XBR exclusively in my 6.5TCU Rifle, so not quite a 6x45 but I use 26gns of 8208 and 123 ELD-Ms or SSTs or lately 130gn RDFs
Velocity is 2550 and thing shoots real good out to about 700m, past that it loses its lunch a bit.
Might try a 6x45 next time or 6TCU if I can find a reamer maybe

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## Hunter_Nick

More success with the 6x45 a couple of nights ago. Took this yearling stag at about 150yds with a 70gr Nosler ballistic tip launched at 2950fps. To say I’m stoked with the bullet performance would be a bit of an understatement…. Went in tight behind the left leg, and out 3 ribs from the end of the rib cage on the other side. Great expansion and internal damage, yet still tough enough to get all the way through. That tapered jacket and thick base certainly does the trick at 6x45 velocity. So good in fact, this is the only bullet I will hunt with from now on!

Also came up with the best consistent load so far, using AR2219. Gave it a go after a mate mentioned that he was getting great velocity and accuracy in his 6x45 with the 75gr vmax.

18” barrel:
70gr Nosler
24.6gr AR2219
Win case, federal 205m
2900 fps, and has the headroom for a bit more pressure.

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## Micky Duck

> Interesting.  The 6mm-204 would seem to be the best bet in a "medium" action with a .378 boltface.  I think the key is to get something that will run at 30gns powder or a tiny bit under - with reasonable projectiles this produces enough energy to knock over all NZ game, and suppressors very effectively with contemporary suppressors.


so reading this.....thought came to mind???? the mighty 22-250   is a 6mm ??lee navy??? necked down

so its a case with capacity you asking in barrel diameter you asking.....in length you asking



re invention of wheel comes to mind AGAIN...lol

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## Micky Duck

and yes I realise the bolt face is bigger.....large rifle primers Vs small LOL.

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## Tentman

> so reading this.....thought came to mind???? the mighty 22-250   is a 6mm ??lee navy??? necked down
> 
> so its a case with capacity you asking in barrel diameter you asking.....in length you asking
> 
> 
> 
> re invention of wheel comes to mind AGAIN...lol


Haha - after posting that I got a 6mm Crudmore built (which is the same as 6mm/250 Savage AI).  I'm currently sitting on a Ruger American action with a interchangeable magazine system  and a barrel nut,with the 1x16 thread being fairly common I'm planning doing some playing with the "small" 6mm,6.5 and 270's

----------


## Micky Duck

yes and I went looking and see 22-250 based on 250-3000 savage..... so a 6mm version would sit in middle of other two.

I believe the myna series of cartridges were one of the first to really take off.

nice to have the gear to make something different without it costing a fella an arm n leg.

wont do anything that rifles I already have wont do just as good but one day I would like to make up a 22hp savage with .224 barrel and I reckon a single shot bakail would be perfect to re chamber.

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## ANTSMAN

I love this thread!

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## Mathias

> I love this thread!


Sounds like you need one! Plenty of reason to aye.... :Grin:

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## ANTSMAN

> Sounds like you need one! Plenty of reason to aye....


I think you're correct ! and I think its half sorted  :Have A Nice Day: 

Anyone tried rl17 here in NZ?

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## madjon_

@Wingman, fitted,made some dies from 6mm rem(didn't do my inserts any favors)3.5-10

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## Wingman

> @Wingman, fitted,made some dies from 6mm rem(didn't do my inserts any favors)3.5-10


Nice! 
You dont mess around do you! Nice job on slotting the mag for the necks too. I run a .300blk mag in mine now which dont have those indents. 
Let me know how it shoots mate. My barrel loves the 75gr hps.

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## madjon_

75grn Speer hollowpoint 
26grn AR2206,2949,49,62,76,82
27grn BL-C2.2789
27grn AR2208.2830

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## Barefoot

Well it 's been 2 yrs since Wingman turned my Zastava into a new little weapon.
Was shooting the 70gr Targex until a few months ago and it took down a number of goats in that time.
But my son has been using it the last couple of months loaded with 85gr sierras. 
He took a fallow spiker with it 2 weeks ago at 150m and then capped that off with a head shot on small pig.
Not sure I'm going to get to use it much from now on.

----------


## Seventenths

Shot this stag recently with 6x45 using a 75 gr sierra to the neck. 

The photo doesn't do the animal justice as it weighed around 130 kg + gutted.

----------

