# Outdoors > Outdoor Transport >  36 trapped on the old bush road

## Boaraxa

Second chopper rescue attempt fails, 36 remain trapped in four-wheel-drive trip in Central Otago | Stuff.co.nz

Theyv been looking for an excuse to permanently close  this track... this would do it...morons driving up there in these conditions

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## possum_shooter

Thought it was a bit strange to head up there with the predicted forecast

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## kidmac42

Yep. Right in the guts of my hunting block. Muptards is all I can say.

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## Boaraxa

(our hunting block kidmac :Have A Nice Day: ...wonder how long there vehicle,s stay there !

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## GravelBen

> Muptards


 :Thumbsup:  Excellent word! And very appropriate.

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## kidmac42

Probably til the thaw mate. They will be stuck in the bogs on the top south end.
It'll be a fucken mess now. Air force chopper in pioneer park now.

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## SiB

The brainless bravery of some is interesting to say the least.  I've been on a few large-convoy (i.e. Plus three vehicles with unknown muppets driving some) and I won't do it again.  Some seem to completely forget any safety briefing, and the concept of "let's turn back" is an unknown idea

In fairness I'm sure there are some experienced drivers who've done their best. Money is on though that you only need a couple of drivers who play by their own rules to chew up ground, and create problems. 

Let's hope all are safe, and the reputation of the activity isn't tarnished too severely.

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## Boaraxa

this is there reputation lol 13 4wd,s on that track after all the rain & snow can only imagine what it looks like at the mo

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## R93

Hunters are no different to be fair.
 I cannot count the times we told people that the weather is going to be terrible not to go in and that we wouldn't risk our own necks, to go get them out of the bush, if it gets to boring for them in the tent. 

Drop them off against your better judgement and a couple days later they beg for a flight out.
Even had some assholes use a plb and bleat on the moutain radio when nothing was wrong with them.

Helicopter operators make their living around the weather. They know it better than anyone in their patch.
9 times out of 10, if they say it is going to be fucked it will be.




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## JoshC

There was snow on the ground up there (and I'd say it was pretty wet as well) before they went in, and an accurate forecast predicting heavy rain (weather warnings) and snow expected for that area. Whoever organised the trip needs a f'n good boot up their arse. I hope they make significant donations to any volunteer groups involved in helping them out. Just another excuse for that road to be locked up as already mentioned.

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## Pengy

I am not generally in favour of making people pay for rescue services, but in a case where it is clear cut stupidity, which this is sounding like, then I say give them a bill. A big bill.

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## SiB

To me it makes perfect sense that any user requesting rescue services pays according to their level of need/stupidity.

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## JoshC

They've been picked up by the Snow Cats

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## 223nut

Wonder if they were the ones parked in a padock near shingle creek

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## gadgetman

> I am not generally in favour of making people pay for rescue services, but in a case where it is clear cut stupidity, which this is sounding like, then I say give them a bill. A big bill.


So not a penguin beak then?



Crazy considering the conditions and forecasts from before they left.

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## Jacobite

13 4WDs bloody hell... That track will be in worse condition than a drunks boxers after a dodgy curry spiked with laxatives. Chimps in men costumes...

It's people like this that really lend support to the argument that for a year or two we should just take the warning stickers off everything and let nature take it's course.

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## kidmac42

> Wonder if they were the ones parked in a padock near shingle creek


I expect that they will be mate, only ones I know of in these parts. The farmer is a good bloke too, had a couple of yarns with him in the past

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## kidmac42

I Iike the new budgies.
Pioneer park this arvo, ferrying muptards off the hill.

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## Rushy

And survivor Richard Cranium said he and another survivor Wayne Kerr had huddled together to keep warm because the party leader Mr R Sole would not let them attempt to walk out.

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## 199p

> And survivor Richard Cranium said he and another survivor Wayne Kerr had huddled together to keep warm because the party leader Mr R Sole would not let them attempt to walk out.


About the only smart move to come from it.

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## Boaraxa

Say it fast Wayne Kerr & R sole they would have to be the party leaders lol  :Yarr:

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## Rushy

> Say it fast Wayne Kerr & R sole they would have to be the party leaders lol


Ha ha ha ha there is a hidden meaning in the other name I used as well.

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## kidmac42

Ok, I had it wrong.
The chopper wasn't ferrying them down. My bad.
That'll learn me eh. Choppers have been going all day tho, westpac rescue then the air force one.
 Sorry guys

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## Maca49

And in Landrover FFS!

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## tetawa

> Ha ha ha ha there is a hidden meaning in the other name I used as well.


It wouldn't be DICK - EAD

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## Rushy

> It wouldn't be DICK - EAD


Go to the top of the class and collect a gold medal.

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## sako75

> (our hunting block kidmac...wonder how long there vehicle,s stay there !


Can I stake my claim here also?

What do you think it would be like at our old family digs?

Been seriously thinking of doing a summer quad ride across the range from Roxy


There is a memorial at Gorge Creek remembering all the miners lost on the range in the great snow of 1863

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## kidmac42

Dunno if you would get thru mate, I went up and over a couple of years ago with a mate on two wheel bikes and the holes were pretty bad then (never again we said). They will be even worse now I'd wager. I drive to the top and walk these days.
I know the memorial, very sad that those men perished.

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## sako75

My Great Great Grandfather crossed the range a few times in the 1870s, 80s and early 90s.
They carried his brothers body back to Teviot for burial
The miners would clear out of the hills before winter settled in and back as the thaw started

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## JoshC

Nah you'd be sweet on a quad, especially thru summer months. I've done it on mx bike 10-12 times and a Yamaha rhino a couple of times. 


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## SiB

I last did that track three summers ago. It was a definite "3 truck" track. We each of us required a pull at some point.  

My point is this; we did the journey for the location and the scenery.  The road was an incidental challenge that added to the experience

I feel now that some folks have little understanding of the geography, it's history or scenic grandeur, BUT want to do the trip because the (several now) 4WD books list it as pretty well the toughest track to complete. 

As a farmer mate said last night to me, he wouldn't attempt that track now even on a tractor, in summer. 

The "right" to attempt to drive that track has overtaken the responsibilities of those who do use it and similar tracks like it.

Unless drivers focus on their responsibilities, they will condemn us all lose any rights of access to that and similar  roads......

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## BRADS

https://www.facebook.com/Heliview/vi...3757805973722/


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## Munsey

That puts it in perspective . Hope they got good  antifreeze

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## southernman

Yep and good batterys, or they need new ones after the go flat and freeze, 
 They need a bulldozer, to open up the snow driflts,  and a week of fine weather to get them out, that's if the track is going to be in any kinda condition to drive on,

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## stug

Those new helicopters look pretty sweet, pity they need a flat surface like an airport to land. Not as versatile as the old iriqouis.

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## gadgetman

> Those new helicopters look pretty sweet, pity they need a flat surface like an airport to land. Not as versatile as the old iriqouis.


And they just don't have that distinctive sound either.

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## zimmer

> Those new helicopters look pretty sweet, pity they need a flat surface like an airport to land. Not as versatile as the old iriqouis.


Of topic but if you ever want to read a very good book on the capabilities of the Iriqouis and their pilots in the Vietnam war get a hold of a copy of Chickenhawk by Robert Mason (conscripted pilot).
Things like taking off totally overloaded, lifting out of clearings with the rotors smacking small tree branches, flying in close formation at night lights out using the instrument lights of next chopper slightly ahead of you for guidance/clearance. A real good read.

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## Gillie

> Of topic but if you ever want to read a very good book on the capabilities of the Iriqouis and their pilots in the Vietnam war get a hold of a copy of Chickenhawk by Robert Mason (conscripted pilot).
> Things like taking off totally overloaded, lifting out of clearings with the rotors smacking small tree branches, flying in close formation at night lights out using the instrument lights of next chopper slightly ahead of you for guidance/clearance. A real good read.


I liked Chickenhawk and if you liked it then I recommend Firebirds by Chuck Carlock. "Gunship - Spectre of War" by Harry Zeybel is also a very good / highly entertaining account of the early C130 spectre gunships in Vietnam.

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## kotuku

i enjoyed chickenhawk too ,but the last chapter was a bit jarring with his vivd descritions of his personal aftermath of his vietnam experiences.
Agree about the old green junglebunny "woka 09".typically in NZthey did a lot of things one suspects the designers never thought of.
had a cousin who did a stint as a crewman back in the 70s-they did a few "coast' trips in support of TFjungle training and he reckoned with a couple of SLR's on board a payload of deer would cover costs nicely.It was a also rumoured,that they periodically carted coal from greymouth to wigram!very adaptable types those airforce blokes.

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## jakewire

ChickenHawk was a great book.

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## veitnamcam

Did these people pay for their rescue?
I heard something about them paying for rescue costs on the radio but didnt catch all of it due to grinders/hammers etc

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## Pengy

> Did these people pay for their rescue?
> I heard something about them paying for rescue costs on the radio but didnt catch all of it due to grinders/hammers etc


Last I heard the cops said they were not going to send them the bill

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## veitnamcam

> Last I heard the cops said they were not going to send them the bill


While that is good I thought/hoped they had offered to pay the bill? Which would be nice.

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## Pengy

I (sort of) agree. 
If however, the party were aware of the forcast etc etc, then I think their arrogance in going ahead makes them liable

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## SiB

A possible side issue is that these 4WD enthusiasts are quite likely to be the same who in different circumstances, would be called by Police to assist in another S&R operation.   

Having said that, we should all learn that there are consequences for wrong, or ill-thought decisions.  

That their own vehicles will be wintered up there is a personal consequence obviously....... But the fact remains that someone's S&R budget will have been dented. Frankly I'd be confident that any Police decision re allocation of costs was based on all the facts; not conjecture and opinion which so often fill our media, and forums like this.

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## lumberjack

Police step in to stop 4WD recovery | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
Hope they dont try it. Dont think they learnt their lesson  :Wtfsmilie:

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## kidmac42

> Police step in to stop 4WD recovery | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
> Hope they dont try it. Dont think they learnt their lesson


Bout says it all really.
Some people just won't learn.

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## 223nut

> Police step in to stop 4WD recovery | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
> Hope they dont try it. Dont think they learnt their lesson


If they try and hit problems they should get a bill for the 'hundreds of thousands' for the first rescue plus a second one if it happens!

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## Barefoot

I do wonder if they did had enough brains to have left their vehicles in a state to minimise the chance of cracked radiators and even engine blocks.

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## jakewire

"Frankly I'd be confident that any Police decision re allocation of costs was based on all the facts; not conjecture and opinion which so often fill our media"

This.

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## southernman

I read that article, and from a safety point of view, the police stopping it is sensible, but many of the comments quoted, are wrong, or coming from people, who simply put, have no idea how to re open up a road/track or access, After a blizzard.
 Having spent 17 winters in the Artic, including building ice roads, the safest and very best way, to open up a road is a correctly sized, and equipped, bulldozer. 
 This includes ice corks, full heated cab, and a means to self recover, or a second machine for that purpose, 
 A warm winter spell, might happen, but a dozen vehicles, under such conditions will chew it up, worse that a frozen road, opened by tracked equipment. 
 Wheel tractors, are among the worst equipment to try with, and will likely end in more problems, I hope they aren't foolish enough to try.  :Omg: 
 The council wining about road damage is a joke, the spring thaw will do more damage, than will be done getting it open, for a recovery now, and they likely only maintain it, once in a blue moon, with a single swipe in each direction from a grader.

 What needs to happen, is a week of fine weather, 
Police to give the go, for a correctly equipment,  piece of equipment, to open the road, wait overnight, or longer. once road is opened, ( this allows frost, to set into the ground, and prevents unnecessary road damage,) a small crew, to go and get as many vehicle's as possible out. There will be a vehicle or two, that wont run,  most likely a land rover  :Wtfsmilie:  you take a smaller recover crew in the next day, attempt to fix or tow out using tracked equipment. 
 The whole mess, could have been avoided, if a weather forecast, was checked before heading out, wasn't great at all. 
 I hope those idiots, will work with the police, to set up a recovery, and vise versa, going it alone, could prove very costly, should it go south a second time.

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## kotuku

@southerman speaks that rare and endearing mode -Common bloody sense.

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## SiB

There was also a letter published in  Southland Times from a guy who'd claimed to have reported regional weather to met service for many years.  He was very clear that the weather was NOT forecasted to the severity encountered. 

I know we've been similarly caught out on the orchard in the past, where no weather service predicted our situation (and we monitor five services plus our own on farm system

The guys got caught out by a freak storm - and a media frenzy.

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## puku

The severity of the weather may not have been totally correct. 
But you have got to be nuts trying to take a vehicle above 1200m in may.  Even if we have had a warm autumn.

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## GravelBen

I certainly wouldn't have gone up there with the forecast I saw anyway!

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## Markgibsonr25

Snow down to 300m tomorrow just saying

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## gimp

Anyone see if there's a 70 series in the group? I could use some free parts

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## GravelBen

> Anyone see if there's a 70 series in the group? I could use some free parts


You gonna walk up there and carry some parts down?

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## veitnamcam

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## stug

Hope they had good antifreeze.

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## 223nut

Bet they didnt have any in the windscreen water though

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## Nibblet

How cold until diesel freezes.....

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## stug

> How cold until diesel freezes.....


-8 to -15 or lower depending on the mix.

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## 223nut

> How cold until diesel freezes.....


Now that could get expensive!

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## stug

Diesel doesn't expand when it freezes though, water is one of the few substances that expand when it freezes.

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## puku

> -8 to -15 or lower depending on the mix.


I thought "Winter" diesel is lower than -15. I know we get "winter" diesel delivered from mid March through till September. 

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## Nibblet

I think that winter diesel is somewhere down around -18 or -20? 
Might not expand but doesn't it make a shit mess of the filters?

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## 223nut

> Diesel doesn't expand when it freezes though, water is one of the few substances that expand when it freezes.


I'm sure it would make things difficult tough, unfreezing it to start with! Have had waterv freeze in windscreen resouvior before, though up there I imagine all the lines will crack and need replacing

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## Harryg

> I'm sure it would make things difficult tough, unfreezing it to start with! Have had waterv freeze in windscreen resouvior before, though up there I imagine all the lines will crack and need replacing


Diesel won't really freeze but it gets a waxy solution in it at really low temps that blocks the filters when the motor is running 
Used to fix by adding some petrol or kero to the fuel tank that stoped the wax from forming

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## gimp

Teamwork retrieved snowbound 4WDs | Stuff.co.nz


I see there were a couple of 70 series up there, I should have gone and pinched an injector pump

would be interesting to see what was and wasn't still running after 2 weeks buried up there, seems like some were a bit frozen

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## jakewire

Seems they got them all going but one
Not  bad effort I would have thought.

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## Kscott

Wonder how long the engine with all the steam pissing out will last though if it's being towed and towing another vehicle.

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## Dundee

i wonder how many vehicles were buggered.

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## Maca49

Impressive burial photo from the helicopter I thought! They moved some snow putting that track in as well.

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## sako75

Diesel may not have frozen but the radiator and coolant systems may be fucked. 
Can not have been too bad if they all made it out.
This is what they need at the 30sec mark

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## Proudkiwi

I know fuck all about trains but that bastard seemed to go on forever!!!!

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## sako75

Did the come down on the Waikaia side or Roxburgh side?

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## JoshC

Rescue attempts and recovery were from the Roxburgh side. 

I for one was surprised they managed to get back in and retrieved the trucks. Even more surprised the trucks all started and ran fine apart from one. Goes to show what modern vehicles can handle if they're maintained properly I suppose. 

Still think they're idiots for attempting the road in those conditions,with that forecast though. I flew over the hill and was in that country on the Thursday/Friday and there was enough snow on the ground then to make the trip very challenging. However they still seem to think they made a good choice and it was unplanned breakdowns that delayed them, and the weather simply caught up with them. 

I think if you push your luck when the odds aren't necessarily on your side, get caught out and need rescued that maybe you made the wrong decision in the first place....somehow I think it won't be the last silly decision they make either.

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## K95

I was talking to someone involved with the rescue, $12,000 per hour for the NH90 for 12 hours... All up cost in the high hundreds of thousands.

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## Barefoot

> Rescue attempts and recovery were from the Roxburgh side. 
> 
> I for one was surprised they managed to get back in and retrieved the trucks. Even more surprised the trucks all started and ran fine apart from one. Goes to show what modern vehicles can handle if they're maintained properly I suppose. 
> 
> Still think they're idiots for attempting the road in those conditions,with that forecast though. I flew over the hill and was in that country on the Thursday/Friday and there was enough snow on the ground then to make the trip very challenging. However they still seem to think they made a good choice and it was unplanned breakdowns that delayed them, and the weather simply caught up with them. 
> 
> I think if you push your luck when the odds aren't necessarily on your side, get caught out and need rescued that maybe you made the wrong decision in the first place....somehow I think it won't be the last silly decision they make either.


I think it goes to show that modern technology, be it machinery (4wds) or digital (epirbs and cell phones) have probably saved more people than most care to admit. But it probably got a lot of people into trouble these days because of reliance on it too rather than common sense.

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## sako75

> I was talking to someone involved with the rescue, $12,000 per hour for the NH90 for 12 hours... All up cost in the high hundreds of thousands.


I read somewhere that the rescue came out of the police budget  :Pissed Off:  and the recovery was their expense

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## sako75

$56K to give them a lift down

$56k to rescue stranded 4WD group | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News

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## GravelBen

Would be interesting to learn what it cost them to recover the vehicles too!  :Zomg:

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## gadgetman

That is not too bad really.

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## 223nut

> $56K to give them a lift down
> 
> $56k to rescue stranded 4WD group | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News


That's not too bad when you consider any other alternative

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## oraki

It's still an expensive weekend of 4wding if they had to cough up tho. That money could've been spend on something much more worthwhile

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## 223nut

> It's still an expensive weekend of 4wding if they had to cough up tho. That money could've been spend on something much more worthwhile


56k is a lot of toys, or one big one!

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## puku

Or a bit over 10% of this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...?id=1099021698



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## sako75

Plus GST and it is only a C model

Agree with the rescue price. I expected it to be higher

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## R93

> Or a bit over 10% of this http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...?id=1099021698
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


With a new Trans and C20 that is a pretty good buy if all the component times are as good as claimed.
No mention of blade time which is 70k to replace with new.

Add another 3-400k for a D model in the same condition.

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## R93

> I was talking to someone involved with the rescue, $12,000 per hour for the NH90 for 12 hours... All up cost in the high hundreds of thousands.


Pretty sure an NH90 doesn't cost much more than half that an hour in military terms at least.

If it's 12k then that will include the crews lodgings and lattes.😆


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