# Outdoors > Outdoor Transport >  Petrol v diesel economy

## csmiffy

Back in the day, possibly incorrectly, I worked out that if the fuel mileage was the same then it took quite a few thousand ks before the diesel started to beat the petrol
Considering 2000-2010 model 4wds, (the models I am likely to afford one day), are they comparable or are the petrol models just to poor?
Some of their prices are good but there may be a good reason for that.
I do know my 3.2 by bighorn liked a drink but by the same token my current 2.8 lwb pajero is nudging 22mpg which isnt that great

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## hotbarrels

My calculations are the same as yours.  When you take into account the 'total cost of ownership', there are no savings in diesel, and a whole lot of potential costs if things go wrong (fuel pump + injectors).

With the modern common rail diesels, buy new and sell before the warrantee runs out.
If you want to buy second hand, buy petrol.
Wont be selling my 4.0 V6 Hilux any time soon.

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## Mohawk .308

I’ll stick with my dirty diesel just to piss the greenies off

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## gonetropo

diesel = more torque
apart from that its pretty much $ for $ nowadays

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## jakewire

Their is only 20-30 cents odd difference between diesel and 91 around here, 
then there is road tax and dearer registration so.....

Crate V8 in the Colorado, Yeah , yeah. yeah.  :Have A Nice Day:  :Have A Nice Day:

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## 257weatherby

> Their is only 20-30 cents odd difference between diesel and 91 around here, 
> then there is road tax and dearer registration so.....
> 
> Crate V8 in the Colorado, Yeah , yeah. yeah.


That'll change quite soon when our Comrade leader takes the tax reduction back on petrol, gonna be some knashing of the teeth when that happens!

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## csmiffy

Seen some of the V6 4 litre (VE) I think nissan pathfinders.
That's meant to be a good engine too.

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## jakewire

I have  been researching into  changing to a 4dr wrangler, with the v6 petrol..
but...
again
Wherever you look there is good and bad, also they don't seem to be very prevalent on here and you would think if they are a good machine a number of blokes would have them.
Would only be looking at 40-50thou so 2014 to 20??
They are rather expensive.

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## csmiffy

Probably because diesel is so entrenched in our 4wd history and logic. Plus I can albut gaurantee that some of the patrols are way worse than they should be scaring them off.
Also suggest if the road tax was on the bowser, not on a separate ticket people might get it.
In aussie I think diesel is either real close to petrol or dearer.
Unless you really need it for water crossings etc, petrol isnt so bad

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## Got-ya

Tried to find a new petrol ute lately?  Good luck. LPG, even after conversion cost is looking really attractive.

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## caberslash

In theory you can run a diesel off cooking oil, people were loading up their shit boxes in the car park when cooking oil was cheap so the supermarkets clamped down and raised the price to boot...  :Pissed Off:  cunts!

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## hotbarrels

> In theory you can run a diesel off cooking oil, people were loading up their shit boxes in the car park when cooking oil was cheap so the supermarkets clamped down and raised the price to boot...  cunts!


I have a fried who runs his older Nissan Navara on a blend of 20% diesel and 80% auto transmission fluid.  He has an agreement with an auto box repair shop to take all their used oil.  He gravity filters it first from one 200L drum to another through a filter bank, and then centrifuges it so that it is clean for the engine.  A bit of work involved but it makes cheap fuel.

My brother was working for a lubrication company a few years ago, and they had an 'incident' where 2,000L of lubrication oil that was being batch blended for the coal mine at Huntly, was incorrectly blended with additives.  Oil was toast.  $10k worth of oil !!  I managed to get if for nothing, including two brand new IBC's.  Mate was a very happy chappy as it was a light grade oil and suitable for his Nissan.

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## 199p

Well just ordered the new ranger with the v6 td will be interesting if it used more the my currently colorado, old man looking at getting the new nissan suv with a v8 hopefully he dose then we will get a good comparison.

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## Carbine

> Probably because diesel is so entrenched in our 4wd history and logic. Plus I can albut gaurantee that some of the patrols are way worse than they should be scaring them off.
> Also suggest if the road tax was on the bowser, not on a separate ticket people might get it.
> In aussie I think diesel is either real close to petrol or dearer.
> Unless you really need it for water crossings etc, petrol isnt so bad


problem is how many different levels of road users there are wouldn't work for trucks and such which pay 20-40c a km depending on how many axels/ weight etc

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## No.3

One of the main considerations for petrol vs diesel is how much the load factor changes on the vehicle.  Petrol can be very economical especially with the modern systems that shut off at the lights etc etc, but as the load factor goes up petrol consumption cost increases in a frightening manner.  Towing is one of the ways that you can seriously increase the load factor on a vehicle, especially when towing things that have a LOT of wind resistance (boats, box trailers).  As soon as you factor in towing and a wide range of load factors, diesel seriously wins on consumption and that's due in no small part to the fact that petrol fuel tax is paid per litre of fuel whereas diesel is per KM meaning it doesn't get much more expensive if your diesel consumption goes up a litre or two per KM.

Diesel servicing is in some cases more expensive - but surprisingly enough some of the lightwieght petrols are by no means cheap come service time (as an aside, some EV's are quite a bit more expensive on service costs than people think - one owned by a neighbour is about 20% worse on tyre useage than the equivalent petrol model for example).  People put a lot of concern into common rail diesel engines with fuel pump and injector costs, but some petrol engine designs are just as bad for repair costs.  Mate just had to replace 6 individual coil packs and plugs on his wife's trundler, plugs at $55 each and coils at $325 a piece.  And then it was a couple of hours of ripping bits off the engine to get to the bits needing replacement, replace a gasket set and some consumables and two hours to rebuild the thing. Total cost around $3500 just to replace spark plugs and coils...

A side factor, some petrol engines are highly allergic to water (a splash into the engine compartment can stop them cold) but some diesel 4wd's are now no better in this regard with the placement of critical sensors and electronics.

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## Shearer

Ever see a petrol do 800,000km+. If you are in for the long haul with a vehicle and don't change them like your undies then hard to go past a diesel. I owned my last one for 8 1/8 years and sold it for the same price I bought it for.

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## jakewire

Are you confident the European 2.0L TO 3.0l  turbo charged  diesels with a million gears are going to get to 800Thou K or even half that.
I'm not.

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## jakewire

Well, perhaps not a million.

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## Shearer

No. My "new" vehicle was made last century :Grin:

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## XR500

Don't own a vehicle (car/truck/tractor/dozer) that is younger then 25 years, so finicky electronics are not a worry for me :Grin: .

Yeah, can't see me selling any of the Patrols now. Happy with their consumption at 10L/100km. A big plus is that they are almost entirely maintainable by joe average home handyman. 

Diesel has inherently 15% more energy per litre than petrol.

Didn't know that modern petrols had become so expensive to maintain either.

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## No.3

Yeah - it's bloody eye opening when you get the mechanic mate to do the plugs on the mother's little '07 Tiida.  Ahhh, bro - that pile of parts includes an intake manifold.  Yep, gotta get that off to get to the plugs... 

Now - don't get me wrong, the Tiida plugs are cheap by comparison to some of the modern petrols at $45 a piece and only four of them - but even that is three hours of labour just to change 4 spark plugs (including a couple of seized fasteners and other fartarounds).  It's a bit of a joke really, Tiida spark plugs are dearer than some diesel engine glow plugs.

The older diesels like the patrols are good in some respects, including not being particularly fussy about fuel (as long as it's compression ignition compatible it's good to go).  Biggest issue with them are they are getting hard for some parts, or you are forced to use some aftermarket bit that doesn't really meet the grade for lifespan.  I went through three sets of mounts in one of my Safari's, first set were the original factory and lasted 16 years, second set lasted just over the warranty period and the third set were 10 months so I got a refund on them under warranty (rubber parts were separating off the steel sections). I ended up building a set of solid steel and red urethane mounts - they were still going last time I checked after 11 years.  Probably need to get a bloody cert if you did that today...

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## striker

> Don't own a vehicle (car/truck/tractor/dozer) that is younger then 25 years, so finicky electronics are not a worry for me.
> 
> Yeah, can't see me selling any of the Patrols now. Happy with their consumption at 10L/100km. A big plus is that they are almost entirely maintainable by joe average home handyman. 
> 
> Diesel has inherently 15% more energy per litre than petrol.
> 
> Didn't know that modern petrols had become so expensive to maintain either.



A lot is to be said for the TB/TD 42 motors, old school reliability,

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## Maca49

> Yeah - it's bloody eye opening when you get the mechanic mate to do the plugs on the mother's little '07 Tiida.  Ahhh, bro - that pile of parts includes an intake manifold.  Yep, gotta get that off to get to the plugs... 
> 
> Now - don't get me wrong, the Tiida plugs are cheap by comparison to some of the modern petrols at $45 a piece and only four of them - but even that is three hours of labour just to change 4 spark plugs (including a couple of seized fasteners and other fartarounds).  It's a bit of a joke really, Tiida spark plugs are dearer than some diesel engine glow plugs.
> 
> The older diesels like the patrols are good in some respects, including not being particularly fussy about fuel (as long as it's compression ignition compatible it's good to go).  Biggest issue with them are they are getting hard for some parts, or you are forced to use some aftermarket bit that doesn't really meet the grade for lifespan.  I went through three sets of mounts in one of my Safari's, first set were the original factory and lasted 16 years, second set lasted just over the warranty period and the third set were 10 months so I got a refund on them under warranty (rubber parts were separating off the steel sections). I ended up building a set of solid steel and red urethane mounts - they were still going last time I checked after 11 years.  Probably need to get a bloody cert if you did that today...


Hope you replace with platinum, nothing like snapping a stud off in an alloy head!

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## Mohawk .308

> Ever see a petrol do 800,000km+.


Only a Toyota  :Thumbsup: 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-z...ilometres.html

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## Hurricane

My 2012 Hilux is at 135,000 so just run in. It’s the RUC that pisses me off.

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## No.3

> Hope you replace with platinum, nothing like snapping a stud off in an alloy head!


I think that Platinum Iridium Newfangled Unobtanium were the only choice we had if I recall correctly.  Everything cheaper were out of stock, and by cheaper I mean only a couple of bucks...

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## Beetroot

> Are you confident the European 2.0L TO 3.0l  turbo charged  diesels with a million gears are going to get to 800Thou K or even half that.
> I'm not.


The ZF 6 and 8 speed autos have been around since 2000 and many are still going with minimal maintenance.
The newest of diesel engines with emissions crap up the wazoo im less confident in.

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## Beetroot

For the most part diesel will be cheaper to run on a ute or big SUV, especially when towing.

A simple rule that runs mostly true is if you can get the same fuel consumption from a petrol and a diesel vehicle the petrol will be cheaper to run.
Typically for the same fuel consumption a diesel with have more torque and probably more power, often a petrol engine in a ute will have considerably worse fuel consumption to get the same performance.

When you add in towing it seems like petrol fuel consumption will go up 50-100% depending on load/terrain where as a diesel is more like + 10-40%.

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## Jukes

> Probably because diesel is so entrenched in our 4wd history and logic. Plus I can albut gaurantee that some of the patrols are way worse than they should be scaring them off.
> Also suggest if the road tax was on the bowser, not on a separate ticket people might get it.
> In aussie I think diesel is either real close to petrol or dearer.
> Unless you really need it for water crossings etc, petrol isnt so bad


Yes, Diesel is more expensive in AUS than 98, slightly.
Always used this app or website when it came time to fill up, would be good if we had one similar in NZ. Gives you the price of different fuels on a map.
https://petrolspy.com.au/map/latlng/...40673104509017 


I know a lot of farmers (I know) like diesel, as they can run their vehicles off their tractor fuel supply (negating some road tax in fuel prices ~ 20C/L) but "only for farm use" and "require" pump gas for road use    :Wink:

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## Shearer

> Yes, Diesel is more expensive in AUS than 98, slightly.
> Always used this app or website when it came time to fill up, would be good if we had one similar in NZ. Gives you the price of different fuels on a map.
> https://petrolspy.com.au/map/latlng/...40673104509017 
> 
> 
> I know a lot of farmers (I know) like diesel, as they can run their vehicles off their tractor fuel supply (negating some road tax in fuel prices ~ 20C/L) but "only for farm use" and "require" pump gas for road use


https://gaspy.nz/

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## No.3

Yeah, gasspy is good but Iwouldnt drive two hours for cheap fuel as it is sometimes quite slow to take the user corrections onboard...

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## XR500

We have signed up with Gaspy, and now get 24 hrs warning of their 10 or 15 cents per litre discount Thursdays, often its the 3rd Thursday of the month. With the usually cheapest diesel in NZ, its worth the half hour drive to fill up the 2000L tank. We don't consume sufficient qty of fuel on farm to warrant bringing in a tanker to refill, as they charge 18c/L delivery on top of pump price. Yeooowza! :Wtfsmilie:

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## No.3

Ouch, you must be a wee bit away from the depot...

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## paremata

> Yes, Diesel is more expensive in AUS than 98, slightly.
> Always used this app or website when it came time to fill up, would be good if we had one similar in NZ. Gives you the price of different fuels on a map.
> https://petrolspy.com.au/map/latlng/...40673104509017 
> 
> 
> I know a lot of farmers (I know) like diesel, as they can run their vehicles off their tractor fuel supply (negating some road tax in fuel prices ~ 20C/L) but "only for farm use" and "require" pump gas for road use


The workshop that services my ute told me a couple of his clients got caught out claiming gst on diesel while tampering with their speedo and got stung for the rucs they hadn't paid.

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## No.3

> The workshop that services my ute told me a couple of his clients got caught out claiming gst on diesel while tampering with their speedo and got stung for the rucs they hadn't paid.


Modern utes go into limp mode if you even look funny at the odo - I haven't heard of a way around that one yet.  I had a safari odo that was probably wound on the way in off the boat - I got it off a farm needing rust repairs and cheap as chips so I wasn't too worried at the time but the interesting thing was it developed a fault that the 10,000km number would wind over then click back to the previous.  I was just careful to make sure the thing was a few k up each WOF and no one asked.  Yeah it's only a toy har har doesn't do many K's...  The next guy who brought it off me got pinged a couple of years after I sold it and they got a lot more strict on diesel odo's, he reckoned it was bloody painful.  They made him repair it and get it certified, there was only two outfits doing it in NZ at the time (one in each island) and it was a month turnaround and it made his wallet pocket scream.

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## striker

> Modern utes go into limp mode if you even look funny at the odo - I haven't heard of a way around that one yet.  I had a safari odo that was probably wound on the way in off the boat - I got it off a farm needing rust repairs and cheap as chips so I wasn't too worried at the time but the interesting thing was it developed a fault that the 10,000km number would wind over then click back to the previous.  I was just careful to make sure the thing was a few k up each WOF and no one asked.  Yeah it's only a toy har har doesn't do many K's...  The next guy who brought it off me got pinged a couple of years after I sold it and they got a lot more strict on diesel odo's, he reckoned it was bloody painful.  They made him repair it and get it certified, there was only two outfits doing it in NZ at the time (one in each island) and it was a month turnaround and it made his wallet pocket scream.


I can not confirm or deny that a waikato mechanic, a for a bottle of spirits per wof used to knock the k's back on nissans,
allegedly had the drill adaptor for the speedos, was only meant to be used to bring new speedos up to the current km with out re-certing.
who knows tho, battery drills are so hard to get right these days, forward reverse or neutral.

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## 7mmwsm

I think people who mess with  speedos are c....ts.
Its fraud.
If I buy a vehicles with x number of kms on the clock I expect it to be accurate.
The type of pricks who run switches and wind back clocks are usually really good at abusing people who rip them off.
If you don't like paying diesel miles for off road kms run a GPS and claim it back legitimately.

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## andyanimal31

> I think people who mess with  speedos are c....ts.
> Its fraud.
> If I buy a vehicles with x number of kms on the clock I expect it to be accurate.
> The type of pricks who run switches and wind back clocks are usually really good at abusing people who rip them off.
> If you don't like paying diesel miles for off road kms run a GPS and claim it back legitimately.


Shit, you just killed this thread!

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

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## crunch

> Modern utes go into limp mode if you even look funny at the odo - I haven't heard of a way around that one yet.  I had a safari odo that was probably wound on the way in off the boat - I got it off a farm needing rust repairs and cheap as chips so I wasn't too worried at the time but the interesting thing was it developed a fault that the 10,000km number would wind over then click back to the previous.  I was just careful to make sure the thing was a few k up each WOF and no one asked.  Yeah it's only a toy har har doesn't do many K's...  The next guy who brought it off me got pinged a couple of years after I sold it and they got a lot more strict on diesel odo's, he reckoned it was bloody painful.  They made him repair it and get it certified, there was only two outfits doing it in NZ at the time (one in each island) and it was a month turnaround and it made his wallet pocket scream.


Type speedo correction into facebook market place and there are plenty of people who will make your ute speedo read what ever you want.  Cant do a hilux or a navara most  of them say.

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## 7mmwsm

> Shit, you just killed this thread!
> 
> Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk


Sorry Andy.
I just hate theives of any description.

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## tetawa

> Type speedo correction into facebook market place and there are plenty of people who will make your ute speedo read what ever you want.  Cant do a hilux or a navara most  of them say.


Yes, but when the dealer plugs in at service time I understand the true mileage is there.

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## 300winmag

Some Auckland gas stations are $3.11.9 for diesel this evening.

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## jakewire

Fuck me 
I got 260 here that I filled with yesterday
Weird guess Auks have more money eh.

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## 300winmag

What's got me is that some affluent suburbs are 30 - 40 cents cheaper that the two stations I saw tonight in Mangere & Favona.

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## No.3

Ouch, last one I passed in Tauranga was 2.55 a litre diesel (well 54.9c).  Ouch...

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## Happy Jack

$2.65 yesterday here in Hanmer but the new NPD in Culverden was $2.50 for diesel. I usually put just enough in here to get me to either Culverden or Amberley where I can then fill up for a reasonable price, note I didn't say a good price.

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## No.3

When I started bying diesel it was 0.66c a Litre.  I remember thinking my throat had be sliced when it went up to 0.92c a litre...

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## Frogfeatures

> When I started bying diesel it was 0.66c a Litre.  I remember thinking my throat had be sliced when it went up to 0.92c a litre...


Shit I remember thinking the end of the world arrived when it hit 50c a litre.
Didn’t know how lucky I actually was  :Wtfsmilie:

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## jakewire

Yip, I climbed out of Dunedin heading north at 59c a liter
Didn't really understand the road tax thing at the time.

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## tetawa

Can remember it at 40 cents mid 1990's but used to get it thru a fishing company who forward purchased, was 22 cents plus GST. Even at that price many still disconnected speedo's.

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## veitnamcam

> We have signed up with Gaspy, and now get 24 hrs warning of their 10 or 15 cents per litre discount Thursdays, often its the 3rd Thursday of the month. With the usually cheapest diesel in NZ,


I have had the app for quite a while but I didnt know about this!
How does this work?

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## Happy Jack

> I have had the app for quite a while but I didnt know about this!
> How does this work?


I'd like to know this too

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## XR500

Somewhere on the app it said "register now for notifications", and that's where you registered with your email address. Of course I now can't find that bit on the app. Possibly their webpage???

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## XR500

My memory of filling our car with petrol began with accompanying mum to the petrol station at the tender age of 5 or 6. Whatever, I clearly remember mum saying that cost 38 cents a gallon to fill the car (so around 10cents/L) :Grin: 


OK guys, I put you crook. Just looked up the Email alert I get and its from Gull, not Gaspy :XD: 

https://gull.nz/alerts/

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## Beetroot

I remember when putting $20 of petrol in the car was normal and would get you more than 30kms down the road.

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## 300winmag



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## 300winmag

Joe Biden made some comments the other day about Exxon Mobil creaming it, not willing to drill more exploratory wells etc, pumping up profits, on a share buy back and generally loving the high price of product at the moment. Most probably the CEO is on a whopping big bonus scheme so why not.

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## mudgripz

I remember as a youngster with first little honda 65 motorbike having to pay 44c a gallon for petrol!  A whopping 10 cents a litre. That was a lot out of the $2 wages I earned working friday nights in the old man's sports/gun shop. Fill tank with a couple of gallons and it left just enough to buy beers for usual saturday night school booze-up!  Tokoroa. 1968.

Be happy - it ain't too bad yet.  You can still buy a couple of gallons of juice after 3-4 hours work and have enough for the beers..    :Cool:

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## sore head stoat

CHCH very early 70s...... I remember getting out of school and a mate going to the gas station and putting in .25cents worth of petrol in his mums ford prefect and going for a drive !!

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## No.3

I can tell you one thing the price of gas has done, there are nowhere near the numbers of idiots going for skids in our semi rural area. Quite nice to be honest.  Obviously the emergency bene doesnt stretch to skids gas.

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## 300winmag

> CHCH very early 70s...... I remember getting out of school and a mate going to the gas station and putting in .25cents worth of petrol in his mums ford prefect and going for a drive !!


Sounds like our neighbourhood in Ch-Ch, except I was hooning around in an Austin 8

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## XR500

Tell kids these days you went 'hooning' in a car that put out eight horse power and they will piss themselves laughing :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:

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## john m

It was a half crown to fill the tank with petrol and a shot of oil for my Francis Barnett. That would last a week of going to school and some riding with mates. No helmets needed back then.

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## Finnwolf

Blew $17 worth of petrol in my car in the 70’s.

$17? Big deal you may think but that paid for 154 litres of petrol.

Ah the days when you could buy a Mercator for $3:60 and .22 ammo at $1:50 cents a packet or less.

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## 308



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## Micky Duck

there is nothing economical about running an internal combustion engine in these trying times.

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## No.3

Waterskiing behind the 350 chev jet boat, straight pipes off the back and the odd lick of flame...  Nothing to go through $100 of petrol a day - back at $1.20 a litre or better!

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## No.3

Here's an interesting viewpoint, as demand for petrol slowly falls and diesel and aviation (or 'middle distillate' grades) goes up, they are predicting that there will be a surplus of petrol produced as compared to the demand for diesel for process and transport purposes.

The point of it appeared to be that the price of diesel and avcat could end up fully decoupling from petrol and end up subsidising petrol prices as petrol supply exceeds demand but diesel remains in short supply.  Interesting viewpoint.

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## 257weatherby

Worth remembering that while the manufacturers, suppliers, distribution and retailers all have to make a dollar, it is actually the government at fault for the sheer scale of cost to the private motorist and freight operators. It is free money for the govt, they do nothing for it, blaming the fuel companies is off the mark, they take home the least, yet they do all the work.

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## csmiffy

Some interesting reading here. Little off track but still good.
I suppose my main inspiration was when I dis a run down south nearly 2 years ago and took the V6 murano as the lad had my 2.8 pajero. 
This was when fuel was low due to covid. Diesel was close to a dollar and petrol was low too.
I will be fair and say I was nursing the V6 with the economy gauge but I still stuck to my normal speed
V6 was nudging mid 10ks to the litre.
If I tried i could do the 640 round trip hitting the low fuel lightsomewher around 20-30ks from home.

What it worked out was that the V6 was near identical fuel cost. Obviously not counting road ks but the paj isnt as economical either.
If a 4wd v6 could get mileage somewhere in between than I'm still ahead from where I am now
Dont use a trailer bugger all so that's not a major but well aware that fuel economy will plummet if the throttle is used aggressively or for load.

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## Shearer

> Worth remembering that while the manufacturers, suppliers, distribution and retailers all have to make a dollar, it is actually the government at fault for the sheer scale of cost to the private motorist and freight operators. It is free money for the govt, they do nothing for it, blaming the fuel companies is off the mark, they take home the least, yet they do all the work.


Isn't the fuel tax collected to pay for roading and infrastructure? or is the paid for through some other tax?

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## Beetroot

> Isn't the fuel tax collected to pay for roading and infrastructure? or is the paid for through some other tax?


Its supposed to pay for the reading but the was a news article the other day showing that most of it gets spent on other things.

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## veitnamcam

Does anyone know when the 30cent per liter "relief" on petrol tax runs out? It was originally 3 months but I have been told it is/was extended but google not helping there.

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## striker

> Does anyone know when the 30cent per liter "relief" on petrol tax runs out? It was originally 3 months but I have been told it is/was extended but google not helping there.


https://www.autocar.co.nz/government...at-half-price/

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## veitnamcam

Cheers @striker

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## striker

> Cheers @striker


 :Thumbsup:

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## Trout

> CHCH very early 70s...... I remember getting out of school and a mate going to the gas station and putting in .25cents worth of petrol in his mums ford prefect and going for a drive !!


My brother and i use to buy the early 1948 to 1950 model Ford Prefects.Get them for about $70 $80.Flog the death out of them,have a great time driving them around for about 2 -3 months.Bang,blow up.Fuel was dirt cheap then.

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## mudgripz

> Some interesting reading here. Little off track but still good.
> I suppose my main inspiration was when I dis a run down south nearly 2 years ago and took the V6 murano as the lad had my 2.8 pajero. 
> This was when fuel was low due to covid. Diesel was close to a dollar and petrol was low too.
> I will be fair and say I was nursing the V6 with the economy gauge but I still stuck to my normal speed
> V6 was nudging mid 10ks to the litre.
> If I tried i could do the 640 round trip hitting the low fuel lightsomewher around 20-30ks from home.
> 
> What it worked out was that the V6 was near identical fuel cost. Obviously not counting road ks but the paj isnt as economical either.
> If a 4wd v6 could get mileage somewhere in between than I'm still ahead from where I am now
> Dont use a trailer bugger all so that's not a major but well aware that fuel economy will plummet if the throttle is used aggressively or for load.


You are right about economy for that V6   @csmiffy.  It is a cracker of a petrol motor - the Nissan VQ35.  Eight times on the world top ten engine list.  Have had it in two of my sportscars now - a Nissan 350Z and my Skyline 350GT coupe (tuned for 287 and 280hp respectively, while the Murano is tuned to about 230hp).  The Zed gave me 31mpg on a trip (9L/100ks), and the 350GT coupe was even better at 32-33mpg (about 8.7L/100ks).  They certainly suck alot of petrol round town but they were extremely economical for tuned 3.5 litre sixes on the open road.  VQ35DE  - a superb motor. VQ35HR and VQ37 variants also.
Even the heavier Murano with the slightly detuned 230hp VQ will move when you need it.. Only CVT boxes though I think..

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## mudgripz

Note to my above post - later Muranos with VQ35HR were higher tuned. 250-260ish hp.

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## XR500

Got the Email today: Gull service stations 12 cents/L off for 24 hours, finishing lunchtime Thursday

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## Micky Duck

terrano was just under half a tank...put $100 of diesel in and didnt quite fill it!!!!!  running at about 3km per $  now

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## Micky Duck

> Worth remembering that while the manufacturers, suppliers, distribution and retailers all have to make a dollar, it is actually the government at fault for the sheer scale of cost to the private motorist and freight operators. It is free money for the govt, they do nothing for it, blaming the fuel companies is off the mark, they take home the least, yet they do all the work.


and the tax take PER LITRE is still more than it was 12mths ago even with the 25cents off..... go back a year further and the numbers look even worse,the taxman is creaming it now and not likely to take foot off throat anytime soon....money for jam.

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## Barefoot

> terrano was just under half a tank...put $100 of diesel in and didnt quite fill it!!!!!  running at about 3km per $  now


I got caught out by the $150 limit the other day at Gull/Waitomo and the like. Pump stopped and didn't think about it till I drove off and realize the tank wasn't actually full.

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## MSL

> I got caught out by the $150 limit the other day at Gull/Waitomo and the like. Pump stopped and didn't think about it till I drove off and realize the tank wasn't actually full.


You know you can go over $150?


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## No.3

Just under half in the Ranger, 45L and two 20L fuel cans was $188 about.  Then topped off the car and 2 20L petrol cans for the garden toys, plus another $165.  At least I got two sets of Gull discount vouchers...  Ouch.

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## XR500

Takes me 1 hour 20min to fill the 2000L tank at Gull, cause they permit one fill going to $200 before its: put nozzle back in slot-go get receipt enter credit card go get nozzle start filling , rinse and repeat! :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: -.

Waitomo machines are still stuck on the $150 limit which is now a serious inconvenience!

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## andyanimal31

Gull diesel taihape today $2.65 till tomorrow lunch time.
Waiouru has really dropped their price lately as well.
$3.15 in Ohakune though!
.50c difference on 50l fill with some 20ldeisel drums for the tractor worth the trip if I can tie it in with something else!

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## Micky Duck

Winchester is by far the cheapest fuel down here...take note  @Thar @Brian   its not much further at all if heading inland towards tekapo to carry on down SH1 and fill then back track 100mtrs and head inland again,will hit the roundabout and flick left to by pass Geraldine completely....$2.70 there today for diesel ,petrol is closer in price to the other pumps but still beats it by a little...its a McKewon site  so keep an eye on thier others.

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## 257weatherby

Mckeown fuel pumps in Fairlie too. Bp is outrageous, stay away!

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## csmiffy

The phone app Gaspy is wicked.
Back to the intent of the thread, while I am not buying anything anytime soon, and I hate filling up no matter what I have, the way things are, I would be buying a petrol

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## MSL

> Takes me 1 hour 20min to fill the 2000L tank at Gull, cause they permit one fill going to $200 before its: put nozzle back in slot-go get receipt enter credit card go get nozzle start filling , rinse and repeat!-.
> 
> Waitomo machines are still stuck on the $150 limit which is now a serious inconvenience!


The $150 limit is the default maximum on waiting terminals.  If you key in your own max, itll go over $150.  Did it last night, keyed in $200, which got the tank pretty much full.


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## jakewire

> Mckeown fuel pumps in Fairlie too. Bp is outrageous, stay away!


Bp was always the favorite of the AA , dunno why down here they were always the first to raise.

Mckeown seems to be the most consistent here with three sites .

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## 300winmag

Close to $400 to fill the Landcruiser, it lasts about 8 days around town.

30 odd years ago there was a Shell service station in Blenheim Road Ch-Ch that closed, the building is still there and is used for a Mechanical workshop. 
Shell spent thousands trying to track down fuel losses on the site, testing tanks and lines, checking the fuel pumps weren't over delivering, theft etc.
When they abandoned the site and removed the tanks etc an additional suction line was pulled up which went under the back fence into the neighbours property, attached to the other side of the fence was a semi rotary hand pump with 3m of hose.
Turned out years before it closed a plumber lived over the fence and whilst it was under a tank upgrade he snuck out and teed into a suction line and quickly buried it.

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## No.3

> Close to $400 to fill the Landcruiser, it lasts about 8 days around town.
> 
> 30 odd years ago there was a Shell service station in Blenheim Road Ch-Ch that closed, the building is still there and is used for a Mechanical workshop. 
> Shell spent thousands trying to track down fuel losses on the site, testing tanks and lines, checking the fuel pumps weren't over delivering, theft etc.
> When they abandoned the site and removed the tanks etc an additional suction line was pulled up which went under the back fence into the neighbours property, attached to the other side of the fence was a semi rotary hand pump with 3m of hose.
> Turned out years before it closed a plumber lived over the fence and whilst it was under a tank upgrade he snuck out and teed into a suction line and quickly buried it.


Would have been pissed off when it closed...

I can't quite work out why no one has built a replacement diff head that contains an electric motor/generator - you could replace the diff head in your ute with that add a hybrid type battery pack under the body and not only would you then have an assist motor for slow speeds and towing which would reduce a lot of wear and tear on starting off with heavy trailers - it would make a bloody handy electromagnetic retarder on downhills when towing.  On a modern common rail it would be good for a 2-3L/100Km fuel saving I reckon...

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## 6x47

Got dragged over to New Plymouth on Monday by my son to collect a 1.8T Dear John wide area mower. A short 13hr day.. Took my Ranger and he hired a big tandem car trailer. The mower juuust fitted on the trailer after removing two dolly wheels off the side decks. Anyway, enjoyed a solid 2.5hrs heading back fully into a head wind, averaged 18.3 l/100k consumption. Once we were out of the wind and cut inland, big improvement, got down to 12.7 l for the final two hours in the dark. I think the final gas bill was about $400 incl RUCs.

My son was going to take his '99 Expedition and I'd guess the bill would have been double that.

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## No.3

That's the thing with diesels, cost doesn't go up that much with the increase in fuel consumption.  Petrol going up from 8.5l/100 to 18l or more like it can with a bigger petrol towing is just cost prohibative.  Mate's big V8 petrol used to get up to 35l/100Km on the napier-taupo, on 96 too.  Around $115 every 100km...  Ouch!

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## XR500

Yeah, it seems that diesel economy can be counter intuitive when asking a ute sized wagon to haul heavy loads. Happens all the time in the Aussie outback. Take a 2.5T Landcruiser, put 1T worth of kit on it, then haul a 2T trailer/camper and be sucking 30-35L/100km. Put all that weight into a 5 Tonne Unimog with a 5.9L turbo intercooled donk and find it returning 25-30L/100km

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## 6x47

> ..
> 30 odd years ago there was a Shell service station in Blenheim Road Ch-Ch ..
> Shell spent thousands trying to track down fuel losses on the site,... an additional suction line was pulled up which went under the back fence into the neighbours property, attached to the other side of the fence was a semi rotary hand pump with 3m of hose..



Here's what my mate down there had to say about it. He was in fuel distrib'n:

That would be the corner of Middleton Rd and Blenheim Road. Was a Shell servo opposite as well. That would help explain why they said it was ‘uneconomic’ to keep them open. The one on the other side has been a car yard for many years. I guess opportunity and ability are always incentives to be creative.

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## andyanimal31

> Yeah, it seems that diesel economy can be counter intuitive when asking a ute sized wagon to haul heavy loads. Happens all the time in the Aussie outback. Take a 2.5T Landcruiser, put 1T worth of kit on it, then haul a 2T trailer/camper and be sucking 30-35L/100km. Put all that weight into a 5 Tonne Unimog with a 5.9L turbo intercooled donk and find it returning 25-30L/100km


A mate has the 4 door v8 landcruiser towing his horse float around the south island with two Clydesdales in the back.
Fully loaded ute and getting 18l per hundy.
That was the average for the whole trip .

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## XR500

I'd be pretty happy with that!

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## JoshC

> A mate has the 4 door v8 landcruiser towing his horse float around the south island with two Clydesdales in the back.
> Fully loaded ute and getting 18l per hundy.
> That was the average for the whole trip .
> 
> Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk


I tow pretty much all winter with my 200 series. My average fuel consumption for the last financial year was 14.7 litres/100km. Thats about 40% Highway, 40% gravel logging/country roads and 20% proper off road. Running 34 inch mud tyres, tuned with a 3 inch exhaust. A huge part of that is how you drive them. Theyre not as thirsty as people think, given the work mine does anyway. Still makes the eyes water when it costs $300 odd to fill up at least once a week 


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## 300winmag

My daily work hack is a Late model VX Ltd 4.5 ltr V8, it has a 138 ltr fuel tank. Generally run it from full until the fuel warning light comes on, then look for a gas station, preferably Mobil as I have a Super Card which gives you 16 cents off per litre, only problem is the price of diesel can vary that much from one end of the street to the other in Auckland.  
As for a work hack they are bloody comfortable vehicle and have a heap of snot. I don't tow a lot in it, have just clicked over 100k in 3.5 years so it will see me through until I check out.

Up until recently I never use to worry about fuel costs but now we pay a little more attention to it.
When the guys get the mini tanker in to fill the excavators and other equipment on our construction sites we get them to fill the utes as well, it's generally well below gas station pump prices.

Should have installed a 50kl tank in our yard 2 years ago and filled it, it would have outperformed any sharemarket investment.

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## No.3

Or become contaminated with diesel bug...  :Thumbsup:

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## 300winmag

Few years back we were doing a job where we had to renew some underground diesel tanks, we had to remove the diesel and temporarily store it and put it back into the new tanks after they were installed. Some bright spark of an engineer thought it would be good to take a sample of the fuel for diesel but, got us to take the sample and sent it away to the lab, result came back all clear with a comment that there diesel was the old high sulphur type. The client was turning a little green and decided that it would be better for them to pay us to dispose of it and fill the tanks with new diesel. We clipped the ticket both ways and ended up with a shitload of the stuff, our modern diesels seemed to run on it ok.

Diesel bug is easily controlled, it loves moisture, there’s many ways to keep it out of your storage system.

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## No.3

Yeah, one way they do it locally is turning over the entire tank every 2 or 3 days.  That way it gets sold to become someone elses problem I think - very weird how no one from the companies gets back to you when you query it!

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## 300winmag

A few options - dose the tank with toxic chemicals which kills the microbes, get inside and clean the tank, circulate the fuel thru UV filters but ultimately you need to stop the ingress of water/moisture. It's all doable, just all depends on how deep your pockets are and how many end users you want to piss off.

Companies with standby generators have this at the top of there hit list, especially data centers.

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## No.3

I've done several marine cleans with an economy sized 1 mic filter and chemical treatment - the biggest problem there is some of the prickiest bugs will pass through a 1mic filter, uv doesn't kill it off fully and chemicals the same.  I had one that we finally got after two polish cycles vacuuming out the bottom of the tank and on UV cycle as well as several chemical treatments, the one that sorted it finally was the Wynns EDT.  I've kept using that one ever since and it seems to work reliably although I've had one failure with my own ute where it was discovered to have bug through the fuel system from tank, lift pump and filter and we assume all the way through everything else...

I will say though that we still aren't 100% convinced that it was actually a 'diesel bug' species and not some other sort of contamination, mechanic never kept the sample and without getting it tested you just can't be certain.  It was really light and fine and stayed in suspension in the fuel which is a little unusual.  No water present either...  Seems like injectors and high pressure pump are fine as well which is unusual for these and bug - the issue that I have with the limp mode coming on and which kicked off the fuel system cleanout appears to be related to the suction control valve not opening quickly enough as you come over the top of a hill on cruise control and the injector duty cycle drops right back to idle.  That's giving a pressure spike in the fuel rail which is tripping the 'fuel rail pressure out of specification' DTC and limp mode coming up.  Fun and games, combined with the fact that I'm not using the thing in favour of the petrol car which is cheaper.  Need to do some long trips and get some diagnostic data recorded!

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## Gkp

Diesel vs petrol 
They both drive totally different.  I choose Diesel for towing heavy loads.  Asides that and deep river crossings there is no no advantage cost wise

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## No.3

> Diesel vs petrol 
> They both drive totally different.  I choose Diesel for towing heavy loads.  Asides that and deep river crossings there is no no advantage cost wise


The latest diesels with auto trans are no different to the petrols, they even turn off at the lights and restart when you hit the loud pedal.  The last one I hopped into I had to check it had two labels...  Bloody awful to drive to be honest, the aircon system had half of the buttons on the dash and the rest buried in bloody menus in the touchscreen.  Prick of an idea.

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## silentscope

my grand cherokee does 9l/100km on my ats, towing makes it 10/100 . does 11l/100km on muddies. i think thats decent milage.

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## No.3

Not too bad, those are petrol hey?  What engine size?

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## silentscope

iv got the 2.7 diesel. i wouldnt own a petrol jeep in this country you dont get the bang for buck theyre made for.

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## silentscope

i had the 4l petrol and the worst mileage i ever got was 160km from a tank towing our small caravan through the sounds from nelson to french pass and back. id still own another one regardlesss those trucks are awesome offroaders.

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## No.3

Ouch, yeah that would be a little sore in the hip pocket with current petrol prices...

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## 300winmag

The new "Petroleum Fuels Engine Monitoring Levy" kicks in tomorrow, price on petrol & diesel will increase $0.06 per litre from 1st July.

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## flock

Watching all these figures, I thought I would check out my F economy, it’s  a 2014   2.4 Subaru Outback with all terrain tyres and lots of short hops around town.  Heavy car with what could be considered an undersized motor.  I try to be fugal but at heart I do push it at times probably because there’s  not a lot of GO with the CTV gearbox as well, insipid.   Bit stunned basically only 10ks per litre.  Taking it for a run shortly  so hoping that improves.
  With all this climate change / electric BS  etc I’m not inspired, at my time of life, to splash any more money on vehicles

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## Russian 22.

we had a chat at work about fuel economy. our fuel bill has more than doubled since last year. partially explained as we have more technicians but it is really rough when you're unable to fully pass on the increased costs to service the client and thus have to eat it.

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## distant stalker

Anyone own a petrol 200 series ? Curious about real world mileage with them

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## mudgripz

I have one simple functional fuel saver measure which helps me bigtime - a light right foot. I purposefully drive on the first one inch of throttle. That is quite enough for all city driving/acceleration, and almost all open road bar overtaking and hills.  My 4x4 3.1 Bighorn does 9.7 to 10.3L per 100ks on open road with 32" muds, and the little 1.5 Toyota ist runabout does 6.7L round town, and 5.6L per 100ks (50.3mpg) on open road. Apply the right foot, start quirting juice in and the equation changes very quickly.

The one inch rule of course does not apply to sportscars... Though even then my 350Z would return 31+mpg (9.1L/100ks), and Skyline 350GT Coupe gave 33mpg at best (8.6L/100k) on open road. With cops about.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Happy Jack

I have been convinced for years that Autos use more fuel hence why I still drive a manual

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## No.3

That is a fair but somewhat moot point nowadays, as in a lot of vehicles you now cannot get anything other than a CVT auto...

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## veitnamcam

> I have been convinced for years that Autos use more fuel hence why I still drive a manual


Yes and yes maybe.
Old autos were shit house to drive and shit house for economy.
New autos have lots of gears and lock up in every gear and in theroy could be more efficient than a manual.
However in theroy there is no difference between theroy and practice but in practice there is always difference to theroy :Wink:

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## Spudattack

> Yes and yes maybe.
> Old autos were shit house to drive and shit house for economy.
> New autos have lots of gears and lock up in every gear and in theroy could be more efficient than a manual.
> However in theroy there is no difference between theroy and practice but in practice there is always difference to theroy


Yeah, my 3.6l Outback with the lineartronic CVT, gets around 8 to 8.5l/100kms on the open road.
Sits at around 1700rpm and just runs on the torque.

Gets a bit thirsty around town (especially when enjoying the acceleration 221kws gives you)but combined I average around 10, really impressed with it for a bigger displacement engine.

Must say too, the new generation of CVT are a MASSIVE improvement in the early ones with  chains driving the coupling rather than a rubber belt.
I was always wary of them after the early ones but this Subaru one is fantastic to drive and very reliable.



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## southernman

I've got two RAV4, one diesel one gas, 2014 diesel in NZ and a 2015 gas in Canada, same  spec vehicle. 
average between 7.5-8L a 100km in the Diesel, down to 6l on the likes of the Canterbury Plaines.
                          8.5-9l on the gas, per 100km best i can get on the flat Pairire is 7.8 ish. 
stop and go in town and traffic, the gas goes way up 13l or so, the diesel doesn't jump much. not seen it over 10l yet, 
 Travel in NZ is steeper and more turns, than were I am in Canada.
 I recond its about 2.5 liters difference per hundred. given similar driving conditions, except round town, 
 the gas is more responsive, better round town, 
 I like the diesel more, as it holds speed much more readily on the open road, 
 regular 87 grade gas in Canada $1.89, diesel is $2.03 last few days.
 Gas makes more sense here, and very few diesel SUV about,

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## No.3

> Yeah, my 3.6l Outback with the lineartronic CVT, gets around 8 to 8.5l/100kms on the open road.
> Sits at around 1700rpm and just runs on the torque.
> 
> Gets a bit thirsty around town (especially when enjoying the acceleration 221kws gives you)but combined I average around 10, really impressed with it for a bigger displacement engine.
> 
> Must say too, the new generation of CVT are a MASSIVE improvement in the early ones with  chains driving the coupling rather than a rubber belt.
> I was always wary of them after the early ones but this Subaru one is fantastic to drive and very reliable.
> 
> 
> ...


Dunno about rubber belts, last one I saw in pieces had a nifty linked - well, I guess it's a belt but made of steel sections that are locked together.  Absolutely zero stretch in the thing, really quite interesting to look at the guts of them as the two pulleys are like collets basically, one goes out as the other retracts in so not a lot of movement makes a huge difference in torque and rpm.  The other really interesting thing is the power of the springs in the pulleys, whip your thumb off if you get it in the wrong hole!

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