# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  357 and 44 mag for deer?

## 300_BLK

Hey guys how do these go on deer?

Commercial ammo at around 100-150m would be the max.

Always loved the 357 for its ability to use 38sp for plinking.

Mostly shoot fallow and sika.

If they are no good will get a 45-70.

Cheers

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## Boaraxa

Iv shot a couple of red hinds using 158gn hollow points (handloads , 357 ) both around 50m away first one the bullet ended up under the skin on the far side and the other it went clean through I was really surprised by the results as the hollows on those things are huge .

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## mawzer308

Hey Fraser, the old man has shot a few at bush ranges with his 44mag. They kill well at those distances with none running off. He was using the leverevolution ammo big exit wounds alot of damage.

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## Ground Control

A few years ago I owned a Ruger 77/44 bolt action, and I shot a number of big pigs with it out to about 75m using the lever revolution ammo ( with the pointed projectiles)
The damage was substantial and none moved more than a few paces .
The thing was very inaccurate though no matter what load I tried so it got sold .
I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a Deer with .44mag as long  as the range wasn’t long and you could actually place the bullet where you want .

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## tetawa

Have shot a few reds with 44mag with Barnes projectiles, there was a bit of meat left around the hole and they travelled no where.

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## tanqueray

I've had a few 44/40 rifles and carbines that I've bush hunted with, and they're a bit below 44 magnum so far as velocity/energy is concerned.

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## 300_BLK

Thanks guys,

Found a nice Rossi 44mag with a scout mount and cheek riser that might go well with a scout scope or red dot.

Or just save for the Marlin SBL 45-70

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## Danny

I have shot about 20 deer using both 357 and 44 magnum. Two stags at one time one behind the other at a measured 100 yards in Ashley Forest some years ago. The majority were shot well within 30m as they crossed a track or while pig hunting and making haste. The 357 took two deer one week using 38 pills. They were a great pill for using over a dog at the bail also. 
I have used a 44 magnum and 6.5 this roar. Nil issue and the smaller rifles have great benefit for quick shots. Like always one must know the bullet strike at ranges and the limitations of the said bullet.

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## Tussock

44 Magnum is epic. I love mine. Shot one deer with it. It died.

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## McNotty

Used to run the 240 gr in my Rossi 44 mag, could hit turkeys easy at 100 yards so wouldn't be an issue on deer.

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## Bill999

I have a 77-44 ruger that I run 44 special thru. 

its great fun but all iv shot is a peacock,turkey and put down a dog with it

the 44 special feeds like it was made for it, ill try some actual magnum thru it eventually but at this stage im enjoying the pop rather than boom aspect

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## 7mmwsm

I want a 454 Casull. Heaps more horsepower than the 44 and you can run 45 colt for playing.

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## Tommy

> I want a 454 Casull. Heaps more horsepower than the 44 and you can run 45 colt for playing.


You mean a 460 Remington, and you can use 454 Casull for playing?  :Thumbsup:

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## Survy

I see the new shipment of Rossi’s finally hitting the shelves, quite like the look of the 44 mag

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## Tommy

> I see the new shipment of Rossi’s finally hitting the shelves, quite like the look of the 44 mag


The new ones have a safety on the bolt, and it fucking sucks. Loose, stupid position, and once I take it apart I'm going to throw it far far away. However, it's reasonably smooth out of the box, and I'm giving serious thought to lopping an inch off the mag tube and putting a can on it. Need the hysteria to die down so I can get a few bits in (pic rail for my now unused red dot/s, sights will be a tad obscured with a can. Something like this perhaps: https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.p...products_id=80 )

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## Cordite

> Hey guys how do these go on deer?
> 
> Commercial ammo at around 100-150m would be the max.
> 
> Always loved the 357 for its ability to use 38sp for plinking.
> 
> Mostly shoot fallow and sika.
> 
> If they are no good will get a 45-70.
> ...


Leaving aside shot placement etc....

For hunting on DOC land you are LEGALLY restricted to minimum .222 Remington, the lowest muzzle energy of which listed on Wikipedia is 1,141 ft/lbs muzzle energy.

The .357 Magnum according to Wikipedia is 583 ft/lbs muzzle energy but that is out of only a 4" barrel, maybe even a revolver.  

Don't know how powerful a hot .357 load through a continuous 16" barrel will be, but it looks doable.

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## gundoc

.44 Magnum is good medicine, often giving complete penetration at shorter ranges but the animals seldom go more than 20 metres if properly placed.  .357 is a shorter range number but I did shoot a nanny Thar with one once (I'll tell you about it next time I see you).

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## Dublin

> Hey guys how do these go on deer?
> 
> Commercial ammo at around 100-150m would be the max.
> 
> Always loved the 357 for its ability to use 38sp for plinking.
> 
> Mostly shoot fallow and sika.
> 
> If they are no good will get a 45-70.
> ...


.357 is sweet on deer. Fallow and sika will be no problem at that distance with good ammo. You won't get any further than 150m though. Had a lever in .357 and it was my fav gun, nice and light/compact. Had it for pig hunting and dropping deer when seen chasing the hounds, and it did the job very nicely.

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## Beavis

> Leaving aside shot placement etc....
> 
> For hunting on DOC land you are LEGALLY restricted to minimum .222 Remington, the lowest muzzle energy of which listed on Wikipedia is 1,141 ft/lbs muzzle energy.
> 
> The .357 Magnum according to Wikipedia is 583 ft/lbs muzzle energy but that is out of only a 4" barrel, maybe even a revolver.  
> 
> Don't know how powerful a hot .357 load through a continuous 16" barrel will be, but it looks doable.


It's a restriction based on calibre, not muzzle energy

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## Tommy

> It's a restriction based on calibre, not muzzle energy


Correct. Esp seeing as pretty much any subsonic would be banned as v^2 matters bigly 




> Leaving aside shot placement etc....
> 
> For hunting on DOC land you are LEGALLY restricted to minimum .222 Remington, the lowest muzzle energy of which listed on Wikipedia is 1,141 ft/lbs muzzle energy.
> 
> The .357 Magnum according to Wikipedia is 583 ft/lbs muzzle energy but that is out of only a 4" barrel, maybe even a revolver.  
> 
> Don't know how powerful a hot .357 load through a continuous 16" barrel will be, but it looks doable.

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## 7mmwsm

> You mean a 460 Remington, and you can use 454 Casull for playing?


Why did you have to go and tell me that? I would have been content with a Casull. But now.....

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## The bomb

Killed a lot of deer with my 77/44 with 240g hornady handloads.

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## hotbarrels

My first deer gun was a Marlin lever in .44mag.  Used to hand load 180gr projectiles ahead of Blue Dot powder.  Hot load, traveling at 1800fps. Very snappy recoil.  I could almost, but never quite, clover leaf three rounds at 100m.  The .44mag kills way better than the >1000ft/lbs energy rules would suggest.  Never lost an animal.  Only sold it because the trigger felt like it was about 14lb pull.

I currently have a suppressed Rossi .357mag.  Have a box of factory loads and 500 empty cases to start load development.  Head shot a goat a couple of weeks back.  It died!

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## Bill999

> Killed a lot of deer with my 77/44 with 240g hornady handloads.


what load did your one like? I need to put together a load for mine

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## ChanceMcCall

Being from the USA, I'm not sure how large your deer are but my go to rifle is a *Ruger .44 Carbine*. (This is a long out of production rifle that is a 5 shot semi auto fed by an internal magazine.) I have used this gun on 2 Russian Boar, 6 Black Bear, and over 40 Whitetail Deer. It has never taken more than one shot to put them down at anything under 100 yards (91.44 meters) I do use a different caliber for Mule Deer because the ranges are normally much longer than 100 yards. I would not use it on Brown Bears, Elk or Moose however. Since we can no longer shoot Polar Bears in the USA, it has been a long time for that but I used a .444 Marlin out of a Marlin lever gun for the one and only one I ever bagged.

The black bears were taken with really hot and heavy rounds from *Buffalo Bore*, which I don't know if you can even buy in NZ.

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## Carlsen Highway

The .44-40 and black powder works just fine so the .44 Mag and the .357 have to be better. (This was the smallest one; the others were mature animals and I get complete pass throughs with it.) The .44 Magnum will kill as well as a .30/30 at any range you could hit something with one. The .357 Magnum I have not used, but based on my .44-40 experiences, I would be perfectly happy with one.
So the answer is yes. Yes, you can, and yes you should.

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## gonetropo

i shot a bloody big billy with a 44mag. (300 grain hornady hollowpoint)
dropped it on the spot, projectile was found on the far side of the ribs after causing one hell of a hole. was shot at 50m

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## Survy

So can anyone shed light on what the factory iron sights are set at for the rossi 50 or 100 yards or further ?

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## gonetropo

> So can anyone shed light on what the factory iron sights are set at for the rossi 50 or 100 yards or further ?


my 20" rossi 44 mag seems about spot on at 50m

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## outlander

> The new ones have a safety on the bolt, and it fucking sucks. Loose, stupid position, and once I take it apart I'm going to throw it far far away. However, it's reasonably smooth out of the box, and I'm giving serious thought to lopping an inch off the mag tube and putting a can on it. Need the hysteria to die down so I can get a few bits in (pic rail for my now unused red dot/s, sights will be a tad obscured with a can. Something like this perhaps: https://store.stevesgunz.com/index.p...products_id=80 )


They state that there will be no shipping outside of the US of A. You'd need to have a willing friend over there to ship it over for you, I suspect.

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## outlander

> Why did you have to go and tell me that? I would have been content with a Casull. But now.....


You'll feel the metal butt plate on a Rossi with a .44 mag 240gr @1800 fps. A Casull wouldn't be be much fun for too long, I should imagine. I'd definitely stay home if it was a 460 Rem.

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## Tommy

> My first deer gun was a Marlin lever in .44mag.  Used to hand load 180gr projectiles ahead of Blue Dot powder.  Hot load, traveling at 1800fps. Very snappy recoil.  I could almost, but never quite, clover leaf three rounds at 100m.  The .44mag kills way better than the >1000ft/lbs energy rules would suggest.  Never lost an animal.  Only sold it because the trigger felt like it was about 14lb pull.
> 
> I currently have a suppressed Rossi .357mag.  Have a box of factory loads and 500 empty cases to start load development.  Head shot a goat a couple of weeks back.  It died!
> 
> Attachment 109774


Id love a bit more info on how youve set that gun up with the can, and who did the work @hotbarrels

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## Tommy

> They state that there will be no shipping outside of the US of A. You'd need to have a willing friend over there to ship it over for you, I suspect.


Doable

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## Cordite

> It's a restriction based on calibre, not muzzle energy


I had read long ago that .30 Carbine was not allowed on DOC land by reason of being underpowered, I recall at the time thinking that was a shame.  Of course does not matter any more...

From the site: 
"7. 
*Only centre fire rifles of calibre .222 Remington or larger may be used for hunting* or crossbows and bows that meet the minimum standard specified by DOC (see: Bow and cross bow hunting). Shotguns, rimfire rifles, *22 hornet calibre*, tracer and incendiary type ammunition are strictly prohibited under this Permit."

Both .222 Remington and .22 Hornet use 5.7mm bullets.  The DOC regulation above is written by someone not familiar with firearms (like the somewhat nonsense term ".22 Hornet calibre") and really could do with being rewritten, but the exclusion of the (centrefire) .22 Hornet indicates DOC's intent is to exclude lower powered rifles from hunting use on DOC land.

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## hotbarrels

> I’d love a bit more info on how you’ve set that gun up with the can, and who did the work @hotbarrels


 @Tommy I bought it already done.  I did ask the original owner for the info but it was never forthcoming.  All I know is that he confirmed for me that it was capable of +P loads.

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## Beavis

> I had read long ago that .30 Carbine was not allowed on DOC land by reason of being underpowered, I recall at the time thinking that was a shame.  Of course does not matter any more...
> 
> From the site: 
> "7. 
> *Only centre fire rifles of calibre .222 Remington or larger may be used for hunting* or crossbows and bows that meet the minimum standard specified by DOC (see: Bow and cross bow hunting). Shotguns, rimfire rifles, *22 hornet calibre*, tracer and incendiary type ammunition are strictly prohibited under this Permit."
> 
> Both .222 Remington and .22 Hornet use 5.7mm bullets.  The DOC regulation above is written by someone not familiar with firearms (like the somewhat nonsense term ".22 Hornet calibre") and really could do with being rewritten, but the exclusion of the (centrefire) .22 Hornet indicates DOC's intent is to exclude lower powered rifles from hunting use on DOC land.


They are silly. If we were to go down the road of energy being the main component of what is allowed for harvesting game on the conservation estate, you would need to look at your ballistics chart and not shoot at deer past a certain distance. It was clearer when they simply restricted it to center fire rifles. Goats are covered under an open area hunting permit, and a .22 Hornet is perfectly sufficient for shooting them. As well as deer when used sensibly. I don't know who came up with that idea.

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## Bill999

I wouldnt want someone starting out to go chasing reds with a 22 hornet

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## 300_BLK

> I wouldnt want someone starting out to go chasing reds with a 22 hornet


Would be heaps!

My mate is a professional hunter now and shot his first dozen deer with a 22WMR!!!

Thanks for all the advice. Going to order a new marlin, either a Trapper in 44mag or a SBL in 45-70.

Cant bloody decide!

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## Carlsen Highway

> I had read long ago that .30 Carbine was not allowed on DOC land by reason of being underpowered, I recall at the time thinking that was a shame.  Of course does not matter any more...
> 
> From the site: 
> "7. 
> *Only centre fire rifles of calibre .222 Remington or larger may be used for hunting* or crossbows and bows that meet the minimum standard specified by DOC (see: Bow and cross bow hunting). Shotguns, rimfire rifles, *22 hornet calibre*, tracer and incendiary type ammunition are strictly prohibited under this Permit."
> 
> Both .222 Remington and .22 Hornet use 5.7mm bullets.  The DOC regulation above is written by someone not familiar with firearms (like the somewhat nonsense term ".22 Hornet calibre") and really could do with being rewritten, but the exclusion of the (centrefire) .22 Hornet indicates DOC's intent is to exclude lower powered rifles from hunting use on DOC land.



The intention of this calibre restriction has nothing to do with qualifying what firearm may be used for deer hunting, DOC do not care what we shoot deer with and this exclusion is not a direction regarding any calibers suitability for deer hunting. It's specific intention is to exclude rimfires, and the nearest centrefire cartridge that will perform like a rimfire, from DOC lands to stop people from using them to shoot native birds. (The mention of incendiary and tracer ammunition is self explanatory.)

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## Carlsen Highway

> So can anyone shed light on what the factory iron sights are set at for the rossi 50 or 100 yards or further ?


The Rossi Lever actions have adjustable sights, (the same as the Winchester 1892 it is copied from). The rear sight controls elevation and the front sight is driftable left and right for windage. (Or you can drift the rear sight if you want to.) 
Depending on your load you can sight it in for 25 metres or 300 metres.


(The qualification about this, is that the 16 inch barrels have the same sights as the 20' inch carbines; so sometimes, depending on your load, the rifle will shoot low, and you wont be able to lift the rear sight high enough to zero for 100 metres. Again, this dpends on your load, and the calibre. 

The solutions for this may be described thusly: 
Put a new shorter front sight on (Note that Rossi sight dovetails are larger than standard and you may have to do some shimming to make it fit) 
File the front sight down, thereby bringing the point of impact up
Have the rifle drilled and tapped for a received peep sight, made by Williams or Lyman. (The sight you want is the same one that fits the Winchester 94)
Buy a 20' inch barrelled carbine in the first place)

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## Survy

Thanks for the info Carlsen, the 16” is going to be good for banging around the bush.
I’ll see how she goes once I run a selection of ammo through it.
But you have given me some ideas of what to do if I need to start fine tuning.

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## Micky Duck

> So can anyone shed light on what the factory iron sights are set at for the rossi 50 or 100 yards or further ?


now that depends on a few things.......
#1 where on the ramp do you have v set
#2 where in the v do YOU sit the bead....eg I put it in the bottom others put it level with top...my way shoots higher but restricts view a little
#3 what load you have in her.....eg a sub will be up to 12" below a supersonic load and a really hot load could be say 6" higher than another not so hot one.

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## Carlsen Highway

IF you have a blade for a front sight (and not a bead), the easiest solution is just to file it down a bit.

I have had three Rossi 92' s over the years and I think they are great. The one I have in .44-40 is one of my pets. I would like a 16" one, in .44 Magnum or .45 colt. They are great for messing around in the bush, light and small enough you don't notice them, and enough for a deer at any distance you could hit one with the open sights. In the old days the Winchester 92 carbine, was just known as a "bush carbine". They were all over NZ and Australia.

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## Carlsen Highway

> now that depends on a few things.......
> #1 where on the ramp do you have v set
> #2 where in the v do YOU sit the bead....eg I put it in the bottom others put it level with top...my way shoots higher but restricts view a little
> #3 what load you have in her.....eg a sub will be up to 12" below a supersonic load and a really hot load could be say 6" higher than another not so hot one.


They are not "set" at any range. The sights are adjustable.

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## Carlsen Highway

Who imports these now? Ampro used to be the distributor, but they don't list them on their website anymore,

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## tanqueray

> The Rossi Lever actions have adjustable sights, (the same as the Winchester 1892 it is copied from). The rear sight controls elevation and the front sight is driftable left and right for windage. (Or you can drift the rear sight if you want to.) 
> Depending on your load you can sight it in for 25 metres or 300 metres.
> 
> 
> (The qualification about this, is that the 16 inch barrels have the same sights as the 20' inch carbines; so sometimes, depending on your load, the rifle will shoot low, and you wont be able to lift the rear sight high enough to zero for 100 metres. Again, this dpends on your load, and the calibre. 
> 
> The solutions for this may be described thusly: 
> Put a new shorter front sight on (Note that Rossi sight dovetails are larger than standard and you may have to do some shimming to make it fit) 
> File the front sight down, thereby bringing the point of impact up
> ...


The sights on the Rossi 92s are more in line with a Winchester 1892 rifle, as the Winchester 1892 carbines had a ladder rear sight as opposed to the standard ramp style rear sight. If Rossi would adopt a flip up ladder and get rid of the safety, Id be all over one. It feels a bit sacrilegious taking an antique Winchester into the bush.

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## Micky Duck

sorry C.H. I didint see you had answered sight question before I answered it....
had a fella today tell me he didnt know how to sight in a scope sighted .22lr............thought we all learnt that before we hit primary school,seems not.

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## Survy

> Who imports these now? Ampro used to be the distributor, but they don't list them on their website anymore,


I think they still do, their website changed quickly after that day last month.
As I was checking their arrival dates, then next minute gone.
But looks like they arrived as shelves at Reloaders and Serious have them.

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## Flyblown

> Would be heaps! My mate is a professional hunter now and shot his first dozen deer with a 22WMR!!!


People still do it. No point elaborating but just last year Nov on a trip I wrote up on here, I watched a highly competent young person head shooting fallow and goats with her new Magnum Research .22 WMR semi. 40gr jacketed lead hollow points. Yes I was a bit sniffy at first but kept it to myself... are you sure???... but knowing these people I thought it was unlikely to be a shitshow... It was actually very impressive. Surgical even.

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## Tommy

@hotbarrels, could you pretty please do me a few closer pictures of the can, threading, mag shortening etc? Don't mind setting up email via PM or what have you? It appears to be an eccentric can?

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## Carlsen Highway

> I think they still do, their website changed quickly after that day last month.
> As I was checking their arrival dates, then next minute gone.
> But looks like they arrived as shelves at Reloaders and Serious have them.



I wondered about that. the ones with the safety I thought were coming from Gun City, which was bringing them in from United States (who get the safety ones for lawyer reasons) Whereas Ampro were bringing them from Rossi in Brazil, with no safety. I will ring them on Friday.

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## hotbarrels

> @hotbarrels, could you pretty please do me a few closer pictures of the can, threading, mag shortening etc? Don't mind setting up email via PM or what have you? It appears to be an eccentric can?


I posted some up before on another discussion located here https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....tml#post769961

If you need anything more specific, let me know.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Despite the fact I have a 303 in the mill for a Bush pig.

The idea of a 44mag with a 16" barrel suppressed just really has a itch that must be itched.

Being that alot of my hunting is sub 100 I can see my 308 being left at home alot actually.

Great info as per usual team!!!

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## bumblefoot

There was a Ruger 77-44 in the New Plymouth H&F today if anyone is interested?

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## The bomb

From past experience I wouldn’t bother suppressing a 44 again,hard to quieten  with such a big hole in the end,my dpt one didn’t make a great difference sound wise unless shooting subsonics

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