# Firearms and Shooting > Projects and Home Builds >  Knife projects  Handles/restoration

## Raging Bull

Follow up on the bird & trout knife blank thread. However, I now have two projects.  I have a few questions, see below.  Any help/tips would be greatly appreciated.

Original thread: http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...e-blanks-1849/


*Project 1. Bird & trout / small game knife* 

Knife blank: Have spoken with the forum sponsor (Zedteq), I will get the blank made, as I’m not set up and/or don’t have the confidence to make a knife from scratch just yet. 
Proposed handle material: antler scales / epoxied leather (between steel and antler)
Pins: Stainless
Guard/bolster: Stainless

I’ve got as far as making a wooden prototype to check sizing, next step will be to get a knife blank made. 

The prototype w/ cut scales in foreground. 



Wooden prototype next to the docking knife, handle materials in foreground. 



The pins I found today, I think they are stainless (anyone know how to check?) 



The epoxy I bought today, it was recommended to me by a guy at Mitre 10... hopefully he knows what he was talking about.  



*Proposed method (once blank is made/hardened and stainless bolster is installed):* 

Once antler scales have been leveled/dried… 

I plan to drill holes through leather an antler (lined up with guide holes through steel knife blank), cover leather and both sides of the steel, pin all the handle materials together and clamp for 24-48 hours. 

Machine grind & sand to rough shape and then continue to sand/file by hand.  I have been thinking of getting a Dremel? Does anyone use one? 

Is there any tips/tricks into getting a tight fit? 

I’m also a little concerned in regards to the antler I chose to use.  In the end I chose to cut the scales from a Ruahine red (cast) which has a fair bit of pith, unlike the Sambar antler I was originally going to use.  Is there any compound that I could use that will look like antler/bone if all does not go to plan?  



*Project 2. Re-handle a Sabatier Chefs knife (my favourite)*

Old handle (problem): cracked/rivets broken
Proposed new handle material: Ebony
Pins: Stainless

The problem (handle material/rivets are cracked and broken). 



New handle material (ebony – it is very dense). 



The knife. 



Is this just a simple task of removing the old scales and shaping fitting the ebony scales to match? I’m worried I wont get a tight fit, I can see it has started to rust a bit where the handle has cracked, is there a way to clean this without making it the steel look shiny/new again.  Tips/ help would be appreciated. 


Also, some of you may be interested. 

I was given a fair bit of Perspex/plastic in a few colours a few weeks back (from my brother, an industrial designer).  If any of you are interested, I’m happy to cut up a few sections for you to use on your own knife making/projects). 

The selection. 




Cheers, 

*Raging Bull*

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## john worthington

hi raging bull i would use 5 minute epoxy and glue the stag to the handle [no leather which will absorb water ]and drill the holes using the tang as a guide and then glue the other side on and drill through the handle .im not sure if you have ebony it does not look black enough to me it may be Madagascan ebony which is lighter my ebony is jet black .the handle of your sabatier is held on with cutlers rivets if you want some pm me your address and i will send you some . the best way of removing the handle is to cut it of with a hacksaw just down beside the tang on both sides and punch out the leftovers .i would grind the rust of the tang and then fit the new scales with a good epoxy and put the rivets in when it has set  ,leave the scales oversize and file and sand them to a neat fit after .this will leave the tang shiny but rub it with a lemon a few times and it will restore the patina.hope this helps 
cheers john

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## veitnamcam

A good grunty magnet will only be slightly attracted to 316 s/s

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## Raging Bull

> hi raging bull i would use 5 minute epoxy and glue the stag to the handle [no leather which will absorb water ]and drill the holes using the tang as a guide and then glue the other side on and drill through the handle .im not sure if you have ebony it does not look black enough to me it may be Madagascan ebony which is lighter my ebony is jet black .the handle of your sabatier is held on with cutlers rivets if you want some pm me your address and i will send you some . the best way of removing the handle is to cut it of with a hacksaw just down beside the tang on both sides and punch out the leftovers .i would grind the rust of the tang and then fit the new scales with a good epoxy and put the rivets in when it has set  ,leave the scales oversize and file and sand them to a neat fit after .this will leave the tang shiny but rub it with a lemon a few times and it will restore the patina.hope this helps 
> cheers john


Hi John, 

Thank you for your recommendations an advice on fitting the handles. 

The whole idea with the leather was to have black spacers between the tang and antler scales, purely for aesthetics. Will have to rethink that, would thin (1-2mm) Perspex be okay? 

I think your correct re: ebony, it is a lot darker than in the pictures.  Having looked at photos on google I think it could be the Madagascan ebony.  

I will flick you a pm re: cutlers rivets. 

Cheers, 

Vincent (*Raging Bull*)

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## Raging Bull

> A good grunty magnet will only be slightly attracted to 316 s/s


Interesting. I will test them tomorrow.  

Cheers.

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## john worthington

perspex will be fine as a spacer
cheers john

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## Raging Bull

Sabatier Chef knife - Handle removed, will clean it up later today. 



Out of curiosity I cut some Sambar scales today to compare them to the red deer scales I had already cut.  

I can certainly see why knife makers prefer to use Sambar antler (these are just rough cut, not leveled/flattened yet). 

Sambar scales (left) / Red scales (right) 




Sambar scales (left) / Red scales (right)

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## RimfireNZ

Hey Raging Bull,
Good idea getting a knife blank made up. How much will that set you back? I'm getting my old man to cut me a couple of templates out of some hard 3mm plate to have a crack on. I'll probably balls it up so might be better if I can design my own knife and get someone else to make the steel.

Just a question about the leather you mention, does that go in between the antler handle and the blank? You have to pin that all together? That solves the problem I was thinking of of trying to get the handle timber and the steel to match perfectly in flatness. [EDIT] Just read you're going to use perspex instead of leather.

Very keen to see how this turns out. Keep us posted.

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## thejavelin

Ha did you get those stainless lengths from a photocopier tech?
I've a pile of them laying around - and they look very similar!

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## Raging Bull

> Hey Raging Bull,
> Good idea getting a knife blank made up. How much will that set you back? I'm getting my old man to cut me a couple of templates out of some hard 3mm plate to have a crack on. I'll probably balls it up so might be better if I can design my own knife and get someone else to make the steel.
> 
> Just a question about the leather you mention, does that go in between the antler handle and the blank? You have to pin that all together? That solves the problem I was thinking of of trying to get the handle timber and the steel to match perfectly in flatness. [EDIT] Just read you're going to use perspex instead of leather.
> 
> Very keen to see how this turns out. Keep us posted.



Hi *Rimfire NZ*, 

Yeah, I've been thinking of getting a few blanks cut for a while now, was going to get the water cut through a local agent but he seems to have closed down now.  For this particular blank its $60, but thats finished/drilled (not just the shape). 

I've got a bit of steel lying around, but I don't know how to tell if its any good for knife making.  For example: these two pieces, the thinnest  piece is about 6mm thick.  



I still might go with the leather if I can work out a way to seal it / block moisture from entering the knife handle and rusting it. 

Lesson for day 1 - always ALWAYS tape and/or wrap the blade your working on, the bastards things are sharp.  :Wink: 

Cheers.

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## Raging Bull

> Ha did you get those stainless lengths from a photocopier tech?
> I've a pile of them laying around - and they look very similar!


To be honest I have no idea, quite possibly, they were amongst of box of stuff from my brother (a former Industrial design student).

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## Raging Bull

My bird & trout blank (s) turned up last week from Darren (Zedteq knives New Zealand). 

Darren made them to my specs/design, keeping me in the loop from start to finish. I'm very pleased with them.  

*Steel:* Recycled L6 high carbon steel
*Grind:* Hollow grind
*Rockwell hardness:* C58-60
*Finish:* 180 grit / drilled



I will be using 316 Stainless flat bar/pins for the bolsters and Sambar antler scales for one of the handles and a hard wood (yet to be chosen) for the other.

Re: The chefs knife update - the rust has been removed (sanded/filed), bolster edges are in the process of being flattened to accommodate the Madagascan ebony scales.  Will hopefully get in finished in the next week or two.

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## Pop Shot

Don't be a pussy - use em like that - you don't need a fancy little handle.

Looking good - I will blood them for you when finished if you want?  :Wink:

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## RimfireNZ

Hey RB,
Those blanks look good. How much did that set you back?

That might be an easier start than trying to make the knife and everything myself. I'm still waiting for the old man to cut me my templates out of some steel he's got at work.

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## Raging Bull

> Hey RB,
> Those blanks look good. How much did that set you back?
> 
> That might be an easier start than trying to make the knife and everything myself. I'm still waiting for the old man to cut me my templates out of some steel he's got at work.


Pm sent.

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## Raging Bull

> Don't be a pussy - use em like that - you don't need a fancy little handle.
> 
> Looking good - I will blood them for you when finished if you want?


In their current state they would probably still be more comfortable/user friendly than that finger groove Gerber, bastard thing. 

Will get at least one of them blooded before you leave.

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## Pop Shot

> In their current state they would probably still be more comfortable/user friendly than that finger groove Gerber, bastard thing. 
> 
> Will get at least one of them blooded before you leave.


After my shooting effort tonight - it might take a while.

Wrap a bit of cloth around the handle and bring it into the Ruahines this weekend....? DO IT!

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## Wildman

Neat project RB. Thanks for sharing.

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## Raging Bull

Sabatier chef knife handle is all epoxied and ready for cutting, shaping and rivets. 

Knife bolster 2 piece (Stainless 316) has be shaped and ready to be fitted to one of the B & T blanks. 

I am having a bit of trouble drilling through the hardened steel + bolster at present, I don't have a press so it will have to do it with a hand drill (slow speed)... off to find a harder drill bit.

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## john worthington

you wont do it with a normal drill if the blade is already hardened ,you need a straight flute carbide drill and a lubricant. the drills cost about $45 each for 1/8th size .what size are your holes i could do it for you  
cheers john

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## Raging Bull

Thank you for your reply John. 

I'm was looking at expanding the existing holes to fit a bigger rod, I may have to go to plan B and stick with the guard holes that are drilled to clear a 3/32" rod and handle 1/8" rod.  Thank you for your offer, I'll get back to you if I can't work with the existing holes.  

I've seen the price of those Carbide bits/may have some in the workshop..will have to check.  :O O: 

P.S should have the handle of the other knife roughly finished later this week (riveted/shaped/sanded).

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## Raging Bull

Update photo (as you can see I cocked up the handle end, but its still fits nicely). 

I have managed to fit and shape handle for my restoration project, I used cutlers rivets which were generously donated by John (*John Worthington*-Thanks for them and all the advice/tips. I will do final sanding, polishing tomorrow and then start rubbing oil into it.



The bird & trout knife is still a work in process, I have shaped the bolsters and managed to drill the 316 stainless with a bit of persistence. The antler scales I have cut/dried are a bit to thin for my liking so I'm on the look out for a nice burl wood for the handle or possible a Curly-grained birchwood (Bladesteel, Blocks and Blanks for Knife Makers & Customizers).

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## Pop Shot

Looking good mate  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Raging Bull

> Looking good mate


Yeah it came out well, better than the original acrylic handle.  

Finished. Oiled, waxed and polished. 





1 of 2 down.

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## john worthington

looks good changed the handle did you not like the heel on the end you just need to take the hollow out of the edge and it will be good to go for a few more years 
good job :Have A Nice Day: 
cheers john

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## Raging Bull

Plans changed.  Have completed one of the two knives, it still needs a little bit of work.  

Bird & Trout Mark I

*Handle:* Casuarina
*Pins:* Stainless x2 (1 hidden)
*Bolster:* Brass
*Blade:* L6 steel (heat treated C58-60 rockwell)



Bird & Trout Mark II will have stainless bolsters and an ebony handle.  Just need to find the time.

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## Normie

That's a nice knife. Something to be proud of for sure. Well done.

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## Normie

That's a nice knife. Something to be proud of for sure. Well done.

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## veitnamcam

Nice work RB

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## NZHTR

Skills RB , Very nice work

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## moonhunt

That timber looks good,knife is a minta, how big could you show a pic in the 'hand' please

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## Raging Bull

I'll take a photo tomorrow.  Its only a small B & T - the handles around 3.5" and the blades around 3.6-7". 

Cheers.

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## Raging Bull

> That timber looks good,knife is a minta, how big could you show a pic in the 'hand' please


The light makes the blade look funny, but this should give you an idea of scale. 

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...P1040648-1.jpg

Cheers.

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## moonhunt

Cheers for the pic, gives a much better idea of size, that looks nice and handy,prob nothing you couldnt do with that knife

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## Bill999

that knife is bloody nice raging bull.

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## Raging Bull

Mark II is slowly getting built. Spent this morning shaping the bolster, peening the pins and filing.  I will start sanding once I've pinned/epoxied the handle scales.

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## Raging Bull

Bird & Trout Mark II (top knife) - 90% completed. It still needs the bolster edges filed down/sanded, more oil rubbed into the handle and final sanding/polishing etc...

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## Toby

I think they both look really nice but that bottom one maybe be better with 2 bolts? looks a little odd with one but still very nice work.

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## Raging Bull

> I think they both look really nice but that bottom one maybe be better with 2 bolts? looks a little odd with one but still very nice work.


The bottom one has two pins also, the back pin is quite thick and is hidden.

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## Toby

I mean it should show the pin. I think it would look alot nicer more precise and even.

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## veitnamcam

> I mean it should show the pin. I think it would look alot nicer more precise and even.


Thought you hated cross bolts :Wink:

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## Toby

On a rifle yes

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## 1toeknee1

wow those are both incredable knives, i love the wood used in mark 1. 
If you wouldnt mind could you pm me how much u paid for the blanks
Cheers

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## Spudattack

> Thought you hated cross bolts


+1!!!!

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## Raging Bull

> wow those are both incredable knives, i love the wood used in mark 1. 
> If you wouldnt mind could you pm me how much u paid for the blanks
> Cheers


Pm sent.

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