# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Why do people frown at using military rifles for hunting?

## Savage1

I do alot of bush hunting and people have always said get a tikka t3 with 3-9 leupold blah blah blah so i went out and got a SKS and use it with open sights much to everyones disgust.  I see it as the perfect short range rifle and cant understand why people insist on scopes and a bolt action. I love the semi for follow up shots because lets face it, everyone makes some bad shots sometimes. It probably only shoots 2MOA but who can shoot better than that from the shoulder standing?  Thinking of upgrading to an m14 for the roar, as i'm not a pussy and the weight doesn't worry me  :36 22 1: 
I'm gonna look a tool to some of the poncy hunters out there but i bet i won't miss a deer because of my choice in rifle.  Beats carrying my bolt action .308 around.  I thought military rifles would make perfect medium range hunting rifles.  :36 17 4: 

Comments please

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## compound

Biggest reason I could think of would be they are noisier to chamber a round. Everything else pretty much relates to the nut behind the butt rather than the type of rifle.

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## veitnamcam

For me personally i just dont like semis in a hunting situation, seen to many near misses for my liking.
THAT SAID I have nothing against semis in well trained hands,its just every time iv seen them in use its by someone incompetent.

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## compound

Seen plenty of incompetent people with bolt actions too. Police like semis to use so they can near miss their 4 legged targets. Deerstalkers like bolt actions but tend to hit anything that looks like a deer in the bush.

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## veitnamcam

> Seen plenty of incompetent people with bolt actions too. Police like semis to use so they can near miss their 4 legged targets. Deerstalkers like bolt actions but tend to hit anything that looks like a deer in the bush.


Some good points you make.

Im not about to debate any of it.BUT you remined me of the police shooting AT a DOG with a full mag of there side arm(10-15 shots some one will tell me)  In a built up resedential area and compleatly failing to hit the dog at all!

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## Spanners

I dont frown about hunting with Military Rifles, I smile  :Grin: 

My goal this year is to shoot Tahr with both my 303 and M1 Garand.
Of course I'll be using tracer so I can see the misses  :Grin: 

I have a wee chub for taking a Mosin and rebarreling into a LR gun for gong banging, but keeping it std looking

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## Wirehunt

A fuckload of Tahr have been shot with a 3O

A mate of the old man's that I have a lot of respect for as a hunter uses a sks, see through mounts for the scope and loves it.  My thought's on scopes in the bush is your fucking mad if you have one, but my eye's are going and I can't use iron sight's no more.  I have found the red dot is faster than them anyway   :Wink:   Bush slut rifle with red dot (might upgrade to one of them ghost ring thing's) and no one can beat you for speed, which is all that matters scrub bashing.

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## Savage1

> For me personally i just dont like semis in a hunting situation, seen to many near misses for my liking.
> THAT SAID I have nothing against semis in well trained hands,its just every time iv seen them in use its by someone incompetent.


I think you just hit the nail on the head there! Couldn't agree more, excluding myself of course  :Thumbsup:

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## Brennos

> I have a wee chub for taking a Mosin and rebarreling into a LR gun for gong banging, but keeping it std looking


DO IT.  Then see how it goes and Ill do it too....

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## Kiwi Greg

> I have a wee chub for taking a Mosin and rebarreling into a LR gun for gong banging, but keeping it std looking



Just for you *Spanners*  :Grin: 

Doesn't even seem like you would need to rebarrel it  :Thumbsup: 

1000 yard Mosin - Sniper's Hide Forums

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## ANTSMAN

apart from havin to carry loaded, the sks are super bush shooters, cheap, robust, and ugly, so it dont matter if u ding them, and regardless they still kill shit,

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## Spanners

I'm looking for one with  nice wood an a good barrel.. :Psmiley:

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## gimp

I'm all for it.


Safety catch exists for a reason.

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## rogers.270

i just brought a mini 14 and intend to red dot the sucker for a bush hack. plus i really wanted one!!!

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## dogmatix

Nothing wrong with a decent semi for hunting. Look at Philipo and his beloved Browning.
Follow decent safe hunting practises and apart from every deer in the valley hearing you chamber a round and you are set.
Not so good if you reload, chances if you actually saw where your brass went, it was in the biggest patch of Onga onga/gorse/bush lawyer/thistle/blackberry on the entire hillside.

 :Wink:

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## gimp

> Nothing wrong with a *decent semi* for hunting. Look at Philipo and his beloved *Browning*.



Does not compute

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## dogmatix

:Grin:

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## Beavis

I generally prefer a bolt action when hunting with others, lest your party members get pissy about people having loaded guns. I've gone bush with an SKS, M305/M14 and an AR15 - hey it's what they were made for. The safety catch on my AR is easier to flick off than the one on my Sako. The "noisy to load thing" is a moot point with me cuz I roll all my rifles loaded with the safety on when actually hunting. Safer than a "half bolt" I reckon. Actually I think the half bolt is one of the dumbest fudd ideas to ever come out. I'm also not worried about the "image" thing people talk about. If you feel offended by the style of rifle someone is carrying, get another hobby. I find the people that bitch about them the most are old cunts who have probably used Lee Enfield's at some point. A bit hypocritical IMO.

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## Spook

I'm with you on the 'one up the spout' and the safety on but I am also one of the 'old cunts' you mention having used a Lee Enfield and dumped a few animals with it. Not only that, I have at different times over the years taken to the bush an M1, AK47 and some Swedish army 6.5 thing. The M1 was bloody useless, great at wounding but never put one down. Watched my hunting mate spray a full 30 shot mag out of the AK47 at a hind dissapearing into a narrow gut at 50 metres, scared the shit out of me and the deer. Never seen a deer while carrying that Swedish 6.5 thing, so never got to see what it could do, but very usefull for hanging the billy over the fire.
The problem I have with the safety being used is the number of people who always want to test it. I have over the years had three discharges go off in close proximity to me as others have 'tested' their safety, one was an old Lee Enfield that it's owner was trying to make safe by releasing the back of the bolt while pulling the trigger...oops, slips...blew the top out of a punga 5 metres out. Another was the boys all tooled up for a bit of spot-lighting in the North Arm and my mate tested his safety in the hut...it wasn't on...a round through the hut roof and fuck! does a 300 mag make the ears ring. The third was a case of a dickhead using left hand to play with safety while right finger on trigger...that was a 'onecer' as he never got invited again.

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## Dundee

> I'm all for it.
> 
> 
> Safety catch exists for a reason.


Never trust a safety catch
Treat every firearm as loaded  :Wtfsmilie:  I love military weopons :Cool:

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## Beavis

> I'm with you on the 'one up the spout' and the safety on but I am also one of the 'old cunts' you mention having used a Lee Enfield and dumped a few animals with it. Not only that, I have at different times over the years taken to the bush an M1, AK47 and some Swedish army 6.5 thing. The M1 was bloody useless, great at wounding but never put one down. Watched my hunting mate spray a full 30 shot mag out of the AK47 at a hind dissapearing into a narrow gut at 50 metres, scared the shit out of me and the deer. Never seen a deer while carrying that Swedish 6.5 thing, so never got to see what it could do, but very usefull for hanging the billy over the fire.
> The problem I have with the safety being used is the number of people who always want to test it. I have over the years had three discharges go off in close proximity to me as others have 'tested' their safety, one was an old Lee Enfield that it's owner was trying to make safe by releasing the back of the bolt while pulling the trigger...oops, slips...blew the top out of a punga 5 metres out. Another was the boys all tooled up for a bit of spot-lighting in the North Arm and my mate tested his safety in the hut...it wasn't on...a round through the hut roof and fuck! does a 300 mag make the ears ring. The third was a case of a dickhead using left hand to play with safety while right finger on trigger...that was a 'onecer' as he never got invited again.


Fair enough and no offence intended toward you. One would obviously test their safety catch in a controlled environment before using it, testing it out with a loaded rifle in a hut, is evidence of total fuckin stupidity. The numerous bullet holes in the Makahu saddle hut are a disturbing reminder of how dumb some people are.

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## Proudkiwi

It's ironic that Savage1 is a cop whose job it is to enforce the ridiculous rules and regulations around MSSA's, inadvertantly (I'm sure) furthering the myth that they are more dangerous than standard bolt guns, yet asks why people frown when he uses them for hunting  :Have A Nice Day: 

Personally I dont care what you want to hunt with  :Have A Nice Day:

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## gimp

> The problem I have with the safety being used is the number of people who always want to test it. I have over the years had three discharges go off in close proximity to me as others have 'tested' their safety, one was an old Lee Enfield that it's owner was trying to make safe by releasing the back of the bolt while pulling the trigger...oops, slips...blew the top out of a punga 5 metres out. Another was the boys all tooled up for a bit of spot-lighting in the North Arm and my mate tested his safety in the hut...it wasn't on...a round through the hut roof and fuck! does a 300 mag make the ears ring. The third was a case of a dickhead using left hand to play with safety while right finger on trigger...that was a 'onecer' as he never got invited again.



This isn't a problem with a safety on a rifle, it's a problem with people being mouthbreathing morons


Treat every firearm as loaded
Don't point a firearm at anything you don't want to shoot (NZers are terrible at this one, just go to any range and you'll get just about every gun there pointed at you.)
Don't touch the trigger until you're ready to shoot (NZers are also terrrible at this)

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## Spook

> Fair enough and no offence intended toward you. One would obviously test their safety catch in a controlled environment before using it, testing it out with a loaded rifle in a hut, is evidence of total fuckin stupidity. The numerous bullet holes in the Makahu saddle hut are a disturbing reminder of how dumb some people are.


No offence taken. I never test the safety on my rifle once loaded, I put my trust in the person who manufactured my rifle to have done their job.

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## veitnamcam

Wouldnt it be best to test it first (unloaded pointing in a safe direction) there is the odd rifle out there that has been tinkered with and dosent work

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## Spook

I did say "once loaded".

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## veitnamcam

> I did say "once loaded".


Ah yes so you did! :Relief:

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## rogers.270

dont use safety load when ready full stop.

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## Brennos

I always have 4 in the mag, chamber empty, I have been known to bail over a few times, I'd hate to trip, and shoot a mate.

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## Spiker

Why do people find it so hard to keep their fingers off the trigger? I use the safety, keep my finger off the trigger & keep control of muzzle direction.  I guess 20 years of pistol shooting has instilled those things in me but really it isn't hard. More than once I've tripped & taken a tumble while running in an IPSC stage & kept everything safe, recovered & carried on. Whether I'm shooting targets or live things it dosn't matter, same rules apply.

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## gimp

> Why do people find it so hard to keep their fingers off the trigger? I use the safety, keep my finger off the trigger & keep control of muzzle direction.  I guess 20 years of pistol shooting has instilled those things in me but really it isn't hard. More than once I've tripped & taken a tumble while running in an IPSC stage & kept everything safe, recovered & carried on. Whether I'm shooting targets or live things it dosn't matter, same rules apply.



Exactly

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## Wildman

Personally I think you should just make your first shot count, be it from a semi, bolt of bow.

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## Spook

> Personally I think you should just make your first shot count, be it from a semi, bolt of bow.


The first one is the only one that counts, all the rest are just lead in the air...and hope.

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## gimp

> Personally I think you should just make your first shot count, be it from a semi, bolt of bow.



Agree, but what does that have to do with people having terrible safety habits?


Semi for mobs of goats and so forth!

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## Littledog

> Why do people find it so hard to keep their fingers off the trigger? I use the safety, keep my finger off the trigger & keep control of muzzle direction.  I guess 20 years of pistol shooting has instilled those things in me but really it isn't hard. More than once I've tripped & taken a tumble while running in an IPSC stage & kept everything safe, recovered & carried on. Whether I'm shooting targets or live things it dosn't matter, same rules apply.


Well sad Spiker, the no1 safety (in my opinion) is the brain holding the firearm, followed by the finger off the trigger and safe muzzle direction, followed by the manufactures safety applied. If the brain holding the gun is not engaged then trouble is likely. Have experinced that personally with a very near miss by a disengaged brain pointing a firearm around and then pressing the trigger. Sends shivers down my spine these days thinking about it.

I like both semi's and bolt rifles and dont think it matters what one hunts with as long as the right calibre for the game is chosen and safety is followed. Ive seen some nuts with both semi,s and bolties. Personal choice and personal responsibility.

Cheers.

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## Littledog

Opps meant "Well said Spiker"......

Cheers.

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## veitnamcam

Thinking about the actual title of the thread "Why do people frown at using military rifles for hunting?"

I think a lot of it maybe because of the way they are portrayed in the movies IE 60 odd rounds being sprayed down range and nothing falling over, unless its something that wasn't aimed at.
Certainly wouldn't help especially with the old school .
.

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## gimp

I'm going to take an un-sporterised Jungle Carbine hunting.

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## Littledog

There is something about the no5 that just say's "YES"! I have seen a few still being used for hunting in Aussie. 

Cheers.

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## Beavis

Last time I went for a hunt in the Omaru a mate of a mate came along with a No.5 in mostly stock condition except for having a scope mounted. I'm kind of glad he didn't attempt to fire it. The chamber and barrel were clogged with rust and half the ammo he had was old CAC FMJ rounds which were becoming badly corroded. I frown at using military rifles in possibly dangerous condition for hunting. I'll have to take my 91/30 for a walk one day though. Still to bag a deer with the Rock River too.

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## Littledog

What a shame, ive seen some very nice no5's around and the owners had kept them in very good condition. That one you mention Beavis sounds scarry. Hopefully the ammo wouldn't fire or the owner may have been in a sore state.
Good little handy rifles still used in many parts of the world-Aussie hunters use em and the Canadian Rangers still have them issued.

The no5 would be a nice handy little wild boar gun. Bit of a kick to it. But would be a military rifle that fits a shorter range, brush hunting role nicely. with its short statue an ruggedness.

Cheers.

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## Tertle

Ive a few No5's and trust me all (bar one) are an absolute hoot to shoot, great scrub rifle. I even went wallaby shooting with an 1867 .577 Snider Enfield once, but thats a story for another day! 

I often hunt with semi auto mil rifles, depending on the type of hunting im doing and love the rugged dependability of the rifles. I am just always mindful its not the rifle, but the nut behind the butt that is 99.9% of the issue. I mean if someone turns up with a firearm as Beavis discribes in that state, then regardless of the type of rifle, new or old, bolt, semi, single shot or what ever, then to me they are a liability. If they are not able to ensure its in an operational state! how can they be trusted to ensure its in a safe state when it should be. I must also agree Vietnamcam, its a perception thing.

But that folks is were we all come in to play, we have to educate people, set good safe standards , practices and change peoples perceptions!

well thats my perception!

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## Pointer

I understand this is a gun nerds forum so I'm going to get picked on but I'd still look at you funny if you walked into a hut one evening and put an AR in the gun rack

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## Makros

> I understand this is a gun nerds forum so I'm going to get picked on but I'd still look at you funny if you walked into a hut one evening and put an AR in the gun rack


That says more about the person looking than the person carrying the firearm. The guy with the bow might look at your bolt action and you funny too.

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## Pointer

I agree Makros, but perceptions can be hard to change. You may say it reflects on me, and I'm sure it does, but I bet my sentiments are echoed by many others too. Dare I say it, the vast majority of hunters.
I'm sure if you all went out tomorrow with MSSAs hunting deer, and it became a common sight and therefore accepted I wouldn't look sideways. However, unless you just fell off a WARO chopper and are in need of help, you would look a little silly. At the end of the day stereotypes are hard to destroy

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## Timmay

I guess it just comes down to the image that comes to your head when you think about someone hunting with an AR...

I think:



when I think bolt action hunter I think:

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## Dundee

May as well go the hole hog!!

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## compound

While we are at it can we pick on the Ruger 10/22 as well? After all it is registerable as a MSSA and has been used by the Israeli army and issued as a combat sniper rifle. Do we now look at all the bunny hunters as militants?

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## Beavis

I find the argument hard case at the best of times. I've actually encountered quite a lot of hunters while at the local range and some in the field while hunting with my AR. Haven't had a negative comment about it yet. Most people wanna play around with it

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## Pointer

Timmay that top pic of yours sums it up  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: 

Compound I have gunned ponds for years with a semi 12g, and tipped over rabbi for even longer with a semi .22 - I was referring to the military style guns. 

Having said that, I can testify that an SKS is a rather handy bush gun - and I, nor the guns owner, was looked at silly for using it on public land. However, if you toddle into a hut I am staying at looking like that fat cunt above, you will get the piss taken. its just how it is  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Littledog

What would you say if this lovely hunter walked into the hut and slung her bow on the rack!!!

All arguments about black rifles vs bolt rifles would be off I bet! Unless you like the sausage, then comments about another mans gun may still be heard! I say let a guy shoot what he enjoys (and gals for that matter too).

Cheers all. :Thumbsup:

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## compound

Pointer do you not consider the 10/22 military? Try googling Israel army and Ruger to see its use as less lethal and then lethal issue for "riot control". Does it need a bayonet on it first to be classified that way by Kiwi hunters? If MSSAs get banned do you think your semi auto shotgun will be safe from confiscation next? Be grateful to see military style firearms in NZ because once they go the only thing that may finally remain to shoot off is our mouths about the good old days.

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## Pointer

Not really compound, we are talking stereotypes and perceptions here. Perceptions of a guy popping bunnies with a 10/22 and a guy deer hunting with an AR covered in picatinny rails and tacticool flashlights would be very different.
But as Littledog says, its a free world. As long as it kills efficiently and humanely thats all that matters.

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## Spiker

> Pointer do you not consider the 10/22 military? Try googling Israel army and Ruger to see its use as less lethal and then lethal issue for "riot control". Does it need a bayonet on it first to be classified that way by Kiwi hunters? If MSSAs get banned do you think your semi auto shotgun will be safe from confiscation next? Be grateful to see military style firearms in NZ because once they go the only thing that may finally remain to shoot off is our mouths about the good old days.


True that. If MSSA's go then I will be looking for a new interest. That might be campaigning the get rid of the deer & duck hunters guns because they didn't think it affected them.

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## Digit

NZ shooters need to wake up and realise that there is a wedge being driven into our community. Anti 'any aspect' of our sport only allows that wedge to be driven deeper. All shooters should be embracing and supporting all forms of our sport - firearm racism needs to be knocked on the head asap.

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## Beavis

I agree. People need to realize that military looking semi's are at the thin end of the wedge as far as gun control goes. If you look at gun control trends overseas, you will notice that these are the first firearms to be banned following any tragedy because they are easily demonized by the anti's. Once they're gone, they start to look at whats left. Like in Australia where they are even looking at clamping down on the ownership of lever actions and the anti's are crying for everybody to be restricted to owning three guns. When , you break down MSSA features, there really is no logic behind why such things should be restricted - Flash suppressor: Can't have one on an A cat semi, but it's ok to have a muzzle brake or sound suppressor. Why? Folding stock - Ok to have on a pump action shotgun, not allowed on an A cat semi. Why? I'd go on but it's drifting into politics

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## gimp

The rules are ridiculous and not based on reasonable common sense. 

Make it harder to get the FAL, and then once you have FAL you can have A,B,E guns.

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## Beavis

> The rules are ridiculous and not based on reasonable common sense. 
> 
> Make it harder to get the FAL, and then once you have FAL you can have A,B,E guns.


I agree. At the very least make people have some decent security, vet them thoroughly and give them practical, hands on firearm safety training rather than just a lecture. Then as you say, let us own anything. One license for all would simplify the Police's job so much, and yet here they are trying to ram legislation down our throats all because they don't like the way we want to hold onto our rifles

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## Pointer

I firmly believe in anyone's right to use what ever they like and support any shooting sport. I'm saying the general perceptions that your average hunter and/or joe public is hard to get rid of.

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## Beavis

Depending on what happens with the new arms bill, it may become more and more common as time goes on

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## Dead is better

While the army absolutely destroyed my interest in assault rifles, i totally respect other people's right to dig them. I'll admit it - i have a thing for the martini henry rifles. I reckon i'll buy one someday just so i can say "i have one of those". I might even shoot it too. Cant explain why they're so awesome to me either. I can understand why dudes think AR's are fierce - they are. Very good at what they're designed for. Like ALL firearms, they require a sound mind operating them.

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## Dead is better

No wonder the taliban has an endless supply of recruits Timmay, i bet they're using that photo as a depiction of a typical US marine!!!

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## savageshooter

I usually hunt with a suppressed .308 bolt gun, my last walk was with a short barrelled AR in .223, I quite enjoy hunting  with either depending on what the situation calls for or what ever I feel like taking.

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## RimfireNZ

Bit of a rant but bear with me, I get to the point eventually.

I can think of a few times at the range where a couple of rich lookin fellas driving new Audi's came up with their $5,000+ AR15's and H&K SL8's with all the gear. Here I am trying to test out some new reloads and these muppets were going "BLAM BLAM" firing with their frikken muzzle breaks (as if a .223 needs them). I'm worried about trying to get five shots in a 1" circle with this going on, so I look at their targets through the scope, and off a rest, these guys aren't able to keep all their shots in a dinner plate sized hole.

So I think when you're out in the bush and you come across someone with a $5,000+ AR15 you kind of wonder "Does this guy know what he's doing? Or is he a poser with too much money?".

In saying that, I totally support using military rifles for hunting. I have a few different military guns (nothing flash), but my suppressed SKS is a great goat/bush gun. Plus it's got a far more interesting history than my Model 700. These things would fade into the history books if we didn't give them a use. What's the point in having something if you don't use it right?

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## gimp

There are more than enough redneck hunters with bolt actions who can't shoot well either

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## Beavis

> Bit of a rant but bear with me, I get to the point eventually.
> 
> I can think of a few times at the range where a couple of rich lookin fellas driving new Audi's came up with their $5,000+ AR15's and H&K SL8's with all the gear. Here I am trying to test out some new reloads and these muppets were going "BLAM BLAM" firing with their frikken muzzle breaks (as if a .223 needs them). I'm worried about trying to get five shots in a 1" circle with this going on, so I look at their targets through the scope, and off a rest, these guys aren't able to keep all their shots in a dinner plate sized hole.
> 
> So I think when you're out in the bush and you come across someone with a $5,000+ AR15 you kind of wonder "Does this guy know what he's doing? Or is he a poser with too much money?".
> 
> In saying that, I totally support using military rifles for hunting. I have a few different military guns (nothing flash), but my suppressed SKS is a great goat/bush gun. Plus it's got a far more interesting history than my Model 700. These things would fade into the history books if we didn't give them a use. What's the point in having something if you don't use it right?


If they have a $5000 AR15 they probably bought it from Gun City, making them Tards by default

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## RimfireNZ

They also have the advantage of being incredibly sturdy - after all they're designed for military use. They can take a lot more than the average hunting rifle.

What military rifles have you guys taken hunting? I've taken the SKS (20"). Haven't taken the mosin and probably won't (being 19 meters long). Bet a few of you have a M305 (M14) although I imagine they're probably pretty hefty for lugging around in the bush.

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## savageshooter

> They also have the advantage of being incredibly sturdy - after all they're designed for military use. They can take a lot more than the average hunting rifle.
> 
> What military rifles have you guys taken hunting? I've taken the SKS (20"). Haven't taken the mosin and probably won't (being 19 meters long). Bet a few of you have a M305 (M14) although I imagine they're probably pretty hefty for lugging around in the bush.



Tried it on the range, to take in the hills it better have wheels ...sold it.

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## craigc

CHROME SKS | Trade Me

this is why!!!

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## gimp

What does someone selling a tasteless cheap junk rifle on trademe have to do with me hunting with an AR15?


It's like me running into you somewhere, and you're hunting with a Sako 85 and I say "Well he's got a bolt action, and there was some fat reactionary redneck at the range wearing polarfleece camoflage trousers with a rusty sporterised lee-enfield and I didn't like him, so I don't like this guy either"


There is a broad spectrum of people who like and use "military" rifles and you can't fairly stereotype them based on your own prejudices against a percentage of those people

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## gimp

Also that's a hell of good price for a chromed SKS, surely the chroming would have cost a fair bit to get done.

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## gimp

Also everyone is very against these things, until you let them have a go with one. Then it's "Oh man, this is cooool"

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## Josh

> Also everyone is very against these things, until you let them have a go with one. Then it's "Oh man, this is cooool"


 :Thumbsup:

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## Beavis

Have hunted with: Shorty SKS, M305, Saiga, and two AR15's. I'd roll AR's almost exclusively now. They leave all other semi's for dead IMHO. The thing I like about hunting with them the most, aside from inherent accuracy, a reliable platform and pretty much perfect ergonomics is how they carry with a good two point sling. Your shoulders take all the weight and if you using a carbine you can cinch it close to your body when bashing through bush, leaving both hands free to get through and climb shit. I guess you could do the same with an AK. M305's/M14's are surprisingly handy in their stock form. Once you add a scope they become heavy unbalanced and cumbersome. A red dot or irons is the way to go if you buy one with bush hunting in mind. They are popular with a lot of hunters in Canada. Just gotta hope it doesn't blow up.

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## Spanners

> CHROME SKS | Trade Me
> 
> this is why!!!


I quite like it!!
Will match my gold AK

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## Rock river arms hunter

I love Semi's, Ive recently as of january been a convert to them and I being a former diehard bolt gun lover can appreciate both as such, I can appreciate a semi for many reasons and despite what others may say or try to lead us believe semi's are perfectly safe,have a genuine place within the hunting community and are great fun...

I would entirely recommend those of you who don't like semi's to contact your nearest service rifle association and go down and have a play on day...... I love my Rock River arms Predator pursuit AR-15 and will keep it for as long as its legal to do so!

in saying that I won't ever sell my sako 75..... with semi's becoming cheaper and cheaper a AR-15 at under $2k has finally become a reality! :Grin:

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## mumabear

i think the ar style gun is the top selling gun in nz at the moment,seems everyone wants,is getting one

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## Beavis

> i think the ar style gun is the top selling gun in nz at the moment,seems everyone wants,is getting one


I highly doubt that, but no doubt they will become more and more popular if the price keeps dropping and we can hold off the new arms bill for a while yet. I think a lot of the negativity surrounding military type guns is slowly leaving the NZ shooting community. Think about it. Semi's with free standing grips have been available on A cat for what two years now? And I'm still yet to witness the sky falling. Anybody who thinks AR's etc are dangerous weapons are morons

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## Tahr

I don't care what guns people have or use. But one thing worth considering is that black guns are mostly .223 which is a marginal deer calibre if not placed right. The temptation to use an AR's fire power at a running deer must be great (it would be for me too probably), and sadly this might mean multiple non killing shots into a deer with its dander up. Those ones can travel a long way and suffer terribly. 

So use what you want, but treat every shot like its your only one. That's what I think. 

But hell, I bet they are fun to use on targets and mucking around.

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## Rock river arms hunter

> I don't care what guns people have or use. But one thing worth considering is that black guns are mostly .223 which is a marginal deer calibre if not placed right. The temptation to use an AR's fire power at a running deer must be great (it would be for me too probably), and sadly this might mean multiple non killing shots into a deer with its dander up. Those ones can travel a long way and suffer terribly. 
> 
> So use what you want, but treat every shot like its your only one. That's what I think. 
> 
> But hell, I bet they are fun to use on targets and mucking around.


If you mean a ar-15 then yes marginal, if you mean a ar-10(308) where one can simply change it to a 7-08,243,260 by pushing 2 push pins then thats one dead deer! a ar-15 on fallow and sika is completely ethical and I'm happy to shoot deer of that size, on reds however thats where I draw the line on the 223 and thats when mr Sako comes out and asserts his authority  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## Digit

The AR15 platform is so practical. Imagine if you could take your stock off your howa, chuck it on your tikka, take the trigger from your savage and slap it in your sako. Or say you lose your bolt from your Tikka and simply be able to replace it with one from your stevens. That is the practicality of the AR15. Everything is built to a single spec. You can mix and match brands. You can change gun purpose as simply as pushing out 2 pins and chucking on a different upper. Ergonomics are preferable too - give me a pistol grip over a standard stock any day.

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## Rock river arms hunter

> The AR15 platform is so practical. Imagine if you could take your stock off your howa, chuck it on your tikka, take the trigger from your savage and slap it in your sako. Or say you lose your bolt from your Tikka and simply be able to replace it with one from your stevens. That is the practicality of the AR15. Everything is built to a single spec. You can mix and match brands. You can change gun purpose as simply as pushing out 2 pins and chucking on a different upper. Ergonomics are preferable too - give me a pistol grip over a standard stock any day.


Best thing I've heard all day!  :Thumbsup: 

couldn't agree more.... I will be purchasing a sks as a bush rifle and NOT from gunshitty, is it possible to scout mount a scope on em?

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## the kid

^ Ew

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## Rock river arms hunter

Have you shot an AR or Sks?

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## Beavis

> Best thing I've heard all day! 
> 
> couldn't agree more.... I will be purchasing a sks as a bush rifle and NOT from gunshitty, is it possible to scout mount a scope on em?


Mount a red dot sight on the rear sight base, or leave it stock. My opinion.

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## Beavis

> Have you shot an AR or Sks?


He probably isn't packing the shits with them. Just chill

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## Spanners

Na - I think he was correct in the 'Ew' comment regarding SKS

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## compound

A SKS in good hands can outshoot an AR in sloppy hands. I have competed with both for target shooting and the AR is just easier to shoot well. There is more challenge to shoot the SKS well at nearly 1/10th the price.

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## gadgetman

Personally I think these military rifles just look silly and don't have the nice sleek lines of a proper hunting firearm. They should not be used for hunting. It is all just completely wrong! :Yuush:

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## gimp

I'm not sure if he's pretending to be a backwards reactionary for comedic effect or if it's genuine. Help?

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## Spanners

> A SKS in good hands can outshoot an AR in sloppy hands. I have competed with both for target shooting and the AR is just easier to shoot well. There is more challenge to shoot the SKS well at nearly 1/10th the price.


Thats like saying The Stig in a Fiat Uno will beat your granny in a F1 car  :X X: 

SKS are a good for 50 yd bush work, you are simply wasting your time putting a scope on one

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## gadgetman

> I'm not sure if he's pretending to be a backwards reactionary for comedic effect or if it's genuine. Help?


Trying to figure that one out myself. I had a play with one on the Wallaby hunt down Timaru ... and I *like*! Absolutely ideal for hunting. I'm just trying to talk myself out of adding one to the already overflowing safe. And then Digit comes along with this incredible value offering. Gee Thanks!!!  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## gimp

> Thats like saying The Stig in a Fiat Uno will beat your granny in a F1 car 
> 
> SKS are a good for 50 yd bush work, you are simply wasting your time putting a scope on one



You can get some quite nice ghost ring sights for them. I'd consider one, if the stocks (and everything else) weren't so damned awful.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Well you could pop a monte carlo on,a synthetic, dragnov type stock... theres a few replacement stocks around the 150 mark....

one thing that I've seen thats plain cool is a bullpup SKS....

I think the attraction to the sks is that its cheap,reliable and a short handy bush/goat gun... its the sort of gun most people can walk in and just buy outright.... 

and 7.62x39 is sooo cheap to shoot!

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## Beavis

I'd like an unbutchered Tula SKS to add to the collection. They get them cheap still in the cosmoline in Canada  :Sad:  Lucky bastards also get a steady supply of Vz58's. SKS's are great for a cheap beat about goat slayer. I bought a Drag stock for mine a few years ago. It's hanging up in my garage collecting dust. They're not really worth spending money on.

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## the kid

I've shot both.

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## Spanners

So you take a piece of shit... spend a bunch of money on it, and end up with something 'acceptable' that is still the same minute of rubbish bin (where you got the gun from) shooting thing you started with.

Lipstick on a pig doesn't make it a princess

Its no longer cheap and its still not accurate

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## gimp

> minute of rubbish bin



From the inside.

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## gadgetman

> and 7.62x39 is sooo cheap to shoot!


I didn't think there was that significant a difference in price, and with the increased accuracy of an AR you wouldn't need to burn through so much, but also have the option of putting excellent quality ammo through for pretty reasonable accuracy. Damn it you lot, will you stop pokin' at the keyboards, it's not helping me out that much. :XD:  I know I don't need one but I sure do want one.

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## gimp

Just don't get the wrong sort of AR. You don't want to get something like a Varmint AR, then find that it's horribly impractical for everything, and start looking at an SKS for a bush rifle.

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## Beavis

> Just don't get the wrong sort of AR. You don't want to get something like a Varmint AR, then find that it's horribly impractical for everything, and start looking at an SKS for a bush rifle.


Exactly. My Rocky is probably right on that tipping point, there is probably way too much alloy and steel up front, but it still is just nice enough to carry round with a good two point QA sling. The barrel could probably be half the diameter it is under the hand guard, but I still like it. The NEA carbines are very light weight.

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## gimp

Could you take a photo or some measurements of the contour of your NEA barrel? I assume it's the 14.5" carbine? I'm concerned, because they're listed as 10lbs shipping weight on NZAR15.com

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## Beavis

> Could you take a photo or some measurements of the contour of your NEA barrel? I assume it's the 14.5" carbine? I'm concerned, because they're listed as 10lbs shipping weight on NZAR15.com


10lb is probably just a default package weight for Fast Ways. At my work our normal package weight to despatch is 10kg's. Sometimes it's a bit more sometimes less, it all gets charged the same, unless extra packaging is needed.

The barrel is 14.5" and .75" after the chamber all the way through. The hand guard is light and slim. It is obviously a lot light over all than my Rock River. With an ACE type stock and an even lighter hand guard it would almost be like a feather (to me anyway). What is your DPMS like?

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## gimp

I don't have a DPMS... It has a DPMS stripped upper and lower, but the rest is all different. Mostly Daniel Defense now.

I have a Dan Hardy special for my barrel, which turned out as an M4A1 profile (not what I asked for, but...), heavy as hell, I'm going to get it turned down locally whenever I get around to getting a barrel nut wrench.

I'd like to know what an 18" NEA weighs.

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## Beavis

I handled an 18" at the last IMAS shoot but I didn't really notice the weight sorry only held it for a few seconds. Was more interested in the optic on it. Digit would be the man to ask.

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## Digit

I can give some accurate weights of guns and parts when the next shipment arrives on the 28th. The 10lb on our site is simply nominal number for postage calculation - not that there is a postage cost for our guns.

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## R93

I have been fortunate to have fired countless rnds thru just about every available assault rifle on the market that was available pre the early 2000's due to my military career, the weapon systems havnt changed that much. I have never hunted quadrapeds with one on foot but have fired plenty of rounds from machines over the years doing venison and various culls with everything from AR's, Sig's. Ak's, Styers and a few others. All were just as effective but my favorite had to be AUG for that task. 
I would not hesitate to take any number of platforms hunting. My only minor gripe would be just about every system is a pain in the ass to sling, due to numerous lumpy bits. This means it is easier to carry it and a prick if ya need your hands free for any length of time.
Trust me when you carry one 16hrs a day and then sleep with the friggin thing they get to be uncomfortable as most Grunts, I am sure would agree. A small respite is an SA-80 type sling which allows hands free and it can be at the ready quickly.  They are a heap more accurate across the board than a conventional hunting rifle from most unsupported postitions, especially standing unsupported due to their ergonomics. They are faster with target acquisition and obviously follow ups. As most are in 5.56 the calibre and being my favorite hunting cartridge, it is limited in the bush. Go to 6.8 or 7.62 and up goes the weight a little.
If I had a ton of coin I wouldnt look past the SIG 551 series, my favorite system out of them all. They also make the best auto pistols IMO. Although due to fine tolerances the 551's were deemed to not  be grunt proof.

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## Beavis

I had a burn on a Sig 551 once. Nice rifle for sure, kinda like somebody took the basic AK design and turned it into a Rolls Royce. I really can't justify the price of them though.

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## R93

> I had a burn on a Sig 551 once. Nice rifle for sure, kinda like somebody took the basic AK design and turned it into a Rolls Royce. I really can't justify the price of them though.


I cant remember the exact price but I remember they were close to 10-12gs per unit, even with the military bulk buying power. If I ever come across one at the right price I would grab it and happily hunt with it.

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## Rock river arms hunter

AR's are where its it at i've decided, after shooting a .4 group,all 3 shots through half of the other one in a line from l-r  I know they can outshoot a bolt gun... but then again the temptation of 6.5x55 CZ mannlicher is ooohhh yes that hits the spot nicely...

I think its more a case of AR's becoming more and more widly accepted as a whole because being are starting to see what they offer in terms of versatility and capability, you buy an ar for 2500 and you've essentially bought a custom rifle.... 
thats reason enough for me!

Rock River arms predator pursuit 20",hardy supressed,hogue grip with a2 stock and free float forend,weaver classic 4-16x44,nikon m-223 mount and a rem bipod(untill it fell to pieces after 50 rounds!)
 seriously next time your in a gunshop go pick one up if they stock em and just feel the empowerment and feel the absolute quality  :Thumbsup:

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## R93

> *AR's are where its it at i've decided*, after shooting a .4 group,all 3 shots through half of the other one in a line from l-r  I know they can outshoot a bolt gun... but then again the temptation of 6.5x55 CZ mannlicher is ooohhh yes that hits the spot nicely...
> 
> I think its more a case of AR's becoming more and more widly accepted as a whole because being are starting to see what they offer in terms of versatility and capability, you buy an ar for 2500 and you've essentially bought a custom rifle.... 
> thats reason enough for me!
> 
> Rock River arms predator pursuit 20",hardy supressed,hogue grip with a2 stock and free float forend,weaver classic 4-16x44,nikon m-223 mount and a rem bipod(untill it fell to pieces after 50 rounds!)
>  seriously next time your in a gunshop go pick one up if they stock em and just feel the empowerment and feel the absolute quality


A piston driven gas system on one and then maybe Id agree.

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## Beavis

> *A piston driven gas system on one and then maybe Id agree*.


Blasphemy. I quite like DI

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## Digit

You can buy an AR for under $2000 now  :Wink:  and yes our philosophy is entirely to raise awareness of the AR as a sporting platform - its not just a black rifle.

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## R93

> Blasphemy. I quite like DI


LOL. I had my fair share of stoppages at wanky times. You can run a better buffer with a piston driven system and of course clean it. If you have a gas issue in the field it can be fixed 99% of the time. Otherwise you would have to have a quiver for all the DI tubes you would need :Psmiley:

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## veitnamcam

> *seriously next time your in a gunshop go pick one up if they stock em and just feel the empowerment* and feel the absolute quality


Think you may have just answered the original question of the thread.

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## Beavis

> LOL. I had my fair share of stoppages at wanky times. You can run a better buffer with a piston driven system and of course clean it. If you have a gas issue in the field it can be fixed 99% of the time. Otherwise you would have to have a quiver for all the DI tubes you would need


Most of the issues with them is due to shitty magazine followers and improper lubrication. People tend to think if you put oil in the BGC it will accumulate carbon and attract foreign debris, resulting in problems, when in fact it's the other way around. As long as you keep it wet it should keep going, no matter how dirty it gets. If you can be bothered look up Bravo Company's "filthy 14" rifle.

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## Beavis

> Think you may have just answered the original question of the thread.


That does sound pretty funny. I've got an image of someone filling the cup after grabbing a Hogue grip.  :Zomg:

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## R93

> Most of the issues with them is due to shitty magazine followers and improper lubrication. People tend to think if you put oil in the BGC it will accumulate carbon and attract foreign debris, resulting in problems, when in fact it's the other way around. As long as you keep it wet it should keep going, no matter how dirty it gets. If you can be bothered look up Bravo Company's "filthy 14" rifle.


DI is fine but you have to admitt a piston system like the rickity AK-47 is more reliable and lasts longer adverse conditions. I doubt you would ever have a problem in NZ outside the military with DI. Venison recovery is hard on them but they are the most popular.

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## gimp

Piston might be objectively superior for reliability, but if you want one get a piston design built from the ground up, not one shoe-horned on top of a DI rifle. I've seen heaps of reports of problems of things like carrier tilt etc on the band-aid piston kits for the AR platform. It's not designed for it.

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## R93

> Piston might be objectively superior for reliability, but if you want one get a piston design built from the ground up, not one shoe-horned on top of a DI rifle. I've seen heaps of reports of problems of things like carrier tilt etc on the band-aid piston kits for the AR platform. It's not designed for it.


Goes without saying really. I would start by re-designing the carrier and upper reciever slightly, its been done. The work from the block back to the reciever is simple and I wouldnt have a fixed piston and it would be a short stroke.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Well the other point to note is, how piss cheap the mini series are getting, in good condition for 1100 ish? one must also consider that a target mini is like 200 diff to a AR.....  I haven't had the chance to shoot a mini but they seem like great bush/pig guns and I can definetly see their place in the firearms heirachy.

You know somethings good if you walk into every shop and they say only good or great things about it -hint hint-

I did some sighting in with my ar at long last now its got a hardy on the end and managed a .4 group at 100m using american eagle 50gr ammo,at $1 a shot that makes for one effecient bunny blaster.... sorry I'm just so proud of it thats all

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## Beavis

Slip 2000 - Articles says it all really

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## R93

Its advertisment in a way, for lube, heard of motor up?

Na, I have seen or heard of the same claims for heaps of other manufacturers. I know of a P226 still passing the accuracy tests at over 30,000 rds.
Believe it or not, for years manufacturers of decent weapon systems have tried to steer militarys away from over/abrasive cleaning. Yet the military machine wants self cleaning weapon systems but still dicipline soldiers for a bit of dust in a mag well or carbon on a gas plug, go figure.

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## Spanners

What a bullshit article...
Cleaned.. replaced.. cleaned.. cleaned.. patched... replaced
The gun hasnt done 30k rounds without cleaning.. 

Nothing more than a toss fest by the writer for an advertiser/s

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## el borracho

I got this slip 2000 and the wife couldnt be happier

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## Beavis

I think what Pat was trying to prove was you don't need to maintain the shit out of an AR for it to be reliable. I bought some slip 2000 to try and it works like pretty much everything else. These days when I feel a BCG needs lube I just chuck it in an almost empty container of Castrol 15W-40 diesel engine oil and shake it round. It comes out dripping and I chuck it straight back in the upper. The first shot produces a big puff of smoke and then it runs like a champ. I never clean it or wipe it down.

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## R93

> What a bullshit article...
> Cleaned.. replaced.. cleaned.. cleaned.. patched... replaced
> The gun hasnt done 30k rounds without cleaning.. 
> 
> Nothing more than a toss fest by the writer for an advertiser/s


Yep. Articles like that are a dime a dozen for just about any product imaginable.

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## gadgetman

You cynics! The articles are all legit. Now I must go out and get some carrots for the Easter Bunny and Santa's reindeer.

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## R93

> I think what *Pat was trying to prove was you don't need to maintain the shit out of an AR for it to be reliable*. I bought some slip 2000 to try and it works like pretty much everything else. These days when I feel a BCG needs lube I just chuck it in an almost empty container of Castrol 15W-40 diesel engine oil and shake it round. It comes out dripping and I chuck it straight back in the upper. The first shot produces a big puff of smoke and then it runs like a champ. I never clean it or wipe it down.


Hes right, you dont. Most modern, reputable assault rifles are similar as far as maintenance goes.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Thumbhole stocked AR's...... arrgghhh the thought makes me sick to my stomach.......

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