# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Hardy Custom Rifle Review

## IngloriousFame

Hello all, 

Just wondering if anyone here has a Hardy custom Rifle (Either the Scout/Tactical off their website or other custom Hardy builds). Curious on the reviews of them, and in comparison to defiance/surgeon actions and or builds.

Cheers guys! (and Gals)

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## stug

I read a hunting story by a guy who used a Hardy custom rifle, it would mis-feed rounds.
He mentions the issues in this thread https://www.africahunting.com/thread...riwanda.23308/

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## matagouri

Was rather interested in buying one of his actions at one stage, pretty awesome to have something like that produced locally. No longer on offer though, do his custom rifles use his action??

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## MSL

Guy I know ordered a full custom from them, not until it was built did I find out that the action was just a rem 700, he thought he was getting one of their actions.

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## 199p

> Guy I know ordered a full custom from them, not until it was built did I find out that the action was just a rem 700, he thought he was getting one of their actions.


Thats a good thing

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## LOC

i know his 308 isn't meant to be a big game calibre - but i can think of better places to have a misfiring rifle than the african plains




> I read a hunting story by a guy who used a Hardy custom rifle, it would mis-feed rounds.
> He mentions the issues in this thread https://www.africahunting.com/thread...riwanda.23308/

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## kiwiazonic

I have a Hardy customised Tikka T3, absolute tack driver.
I meet one guy at the range who had a Hardy scout in 300WSM (bloody nice rifle), again absolute tack driver with no issues.

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## mcche171

Interested in this thread. I am still waiting for my T3x to come back from having a carbon barrel put on it. They said 4-6 weeks. Currently sitting at 10 weeks and the barrel still getting shit done to it from Kiwi composites. 

Only reason I went with Hardy is because they said they could turn it around for the roar. Sounds like Kiwi composites are dragging the chain but I would take that with a grain of salt. Should have spent the extra and got a proof

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## 25/08IMP

> Interested in this thread. I am still waiting for my T3x to come back from having a carbon barrel put on it. They said 4-6 weeks. Currently sitting at 10 weeks and the barrel still getting shit done to it from Kiwi composites. 
> 
> Only reason I went with Hardy is because they said they could turn it around for the roar. Sounds like Kiwi composites are dragging the chain but I would take that with a grain of salt. Should have spent the extra and got a proof


Yea they ( Kiwi comp)always seem to drag the chain I have had a few of their wrapped barrels and its always been the same, the last one in 7mmsaum was fitted by Scott Trail who did an awesome job.
Just doing load work now.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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## Boaraxa

[QUOTE=stug;594418]I read a hunting story by a guy who used a Hardy custom rifle, it would mis

That story is a good read thanks stug.

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## IngloriousFame

Super thankful for the responses guys. Anymore would be much appreciated. Of course looking to support the locals but end of the day if I'm spending good money on my dream rifle want something that's gonna be fault proof and guaranteed tack driver

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## Philipo

Comparing a Hardy action to a Defiance Blahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha  :XD:  FHM

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## matagouri

> Super thankful for the responses guys. Anymore would be much appreciated. Of course looking to support the locals but end of the day if I'm spending good money on my dream rifle want something that's gonna be fault proof and guaranteed tack driver


If you havent spoken to forum member kiwigreg, you may want to consider getting in touch with him. He has available, and is also able to scource some pretty neat components for a build......

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## Echo

Yeah Defiant are nice for $3.5k for the action on its own

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## NZVarminter

pretty sure Dean Maisey still has some Stiller Predator actions available.

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## hotsoup

Doesn't Greg Duley build custom rifles? I saw his Superpig at the Sika show, look pretty awesome.

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## mcche171

Well i gave hardy their 3rd deadline 2 weeks ago for today. Outcome: rifle still sitting in Palmerston North, without having being shot/zeroed, nor is the suppressor ready. Lucky for them the barrel is on as i was going to tell them to shove the whole thing up their arse. Seems like the whole thing has been a fuck up. Not happy with it at all. How can a simple barrel and zero take 3 months. I understand production hick ups etc, but when they say the "barrel is in stock, it just needs to be wrapped which will be two weeks, then we need to shoot it which will be another couple, so 4-6 weeks tops" you dont expect to to blow out to 12 weeks. 

I have been pretty supportive of Hardy over the years, while many have moved to DPT. No longer.

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## 25/08IMP

> Well i gave hardy their 3rd deadline 2 weeks ago for today. Outcome: rifle still sitting in Palmerston North, without having being shot/zeroed, nor is the suppressor ready. Lucky for them the barrel is on as i was going to tell them to shove the whole thing up their arse. Seems like the whole thing has been a fuck up. Not happy with it at all. How can a simple barrel and zero take 3 months. I understand production hick ups etc, but when they say the "barrel is in stock, it just needs to be wrapped which will be two weeks, then we need to shoot it which will be another couple, so 4-6 weeks tops" you dont expect to to blow out to 12 weeks. 
> 
> I have been pretty supportive of Hardy over the years, while many have moved to DPT. No longer.


I have found in the past that the barrel wrapping seems to be where the blow out takes place, although the bigger that they get  "Hardy " the longer the weight seems to be.

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## Dorkus

Totally unacceptable... I won't be going there for anything. Ever.

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## kiwijames

*Custom gun build time calculator*

1.) Take any timeline from a gunsmith or whatever you call most kiwi assemblers. 
2.) Convert that timeframe into dog years. 
3.) Take the numric component of the converted dog years and then re apply the original timebase. 
4.) Tada! real build time

_Can also be applied to calculate real build cost_

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## mikee

> *Custom gun build time calculator*
> 
> 1.) Take any timeline from a gunsmith or whatever you call most kiwi assemblers. 
> 2.) Convert that timeframe into dog years. 
> 3.) Take the numric component of the converted dog years and then re apply the original timebase. 
> 4.) Tada! real build time
> 
> _Can also be applied to calculate real build cost_


There is another step you missed

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## MSL

I had a rebarrel and load development done in 5 weeks, I thought that was pretty good.

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## Rock river arms hunter

> Well i gave hardy their 3rd deadline 2 weeks ago for today. Outcome: rifle still sitting in Palmerston North, without having being shot/zeroed, nor is the suppressor ready. Lucky for them the barrel is on as i was going to tell them to shove the whole thing up their arse. Seems like the whole thing has been a fuck up. Not happy with it at all. How can a simple barrel and zero take 3 months. I understand production hick ups etc, but when they say the "barrel is in stock, it just needs to be wrapped which will be two weeks, then we need to shoot it which will be another couple, so 4-6 weeks tops" you dont expect to to blow out to 12 weeks. 
> 
> I have been pretty supportive of Hardy over the years, while many have moved to DPT. No longer.


-Tongue in cheek- I just sent my 300 project to Trueflite for a new barrel, T2 Brake fitting etc so I wonder if yours will be finished  before I get mine by the last week of June?.

That's bloody terrible! I haven't heard anything positive and I'd be laying a formal complaint. Sh!t that just sucks! Hope it gets resolved quickly!

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## mcche171

I work in the motor trade  (Toyota) and i know we put an order through for a Land Cruiser 200 at the same time as I ordered this. In the same period the order has been processed, vehicle made, shipped from Japan and is now with the customer. 

If we fucked a customer around as much as they have we would be throwing money, vouchers, accessories etc at them.

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## Friwi

If you were promised a certain time frame and it takes 3 times as much, I can understand your anger.
But looking from an American perspective , some rifles built in the USA can take more than a year, and that is with an easy availability of components ...!

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## Friwi

Look at this:
Custom Built Firearms

Used to be 2 years of waiting time!

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## Kiwi Greg

> Look at this:
> Custom Built Firearms
> 
> Used to be 2 years of waiting time!



In the USA, actions, barrels & stocks can take 4-6 + months if not off the shelf.

Kirby is a one man band with a massive following, there are a few more people in the States than here & possibly a much higher percentage with firearms.

If you are promised a time frame, it gets frustrating when its exceeded, sometimes it happens, just the nature of manufacturing & relying on others.

When its not an isolated incident & they really don't care it gets exceeding frustrating.

When they won't stand behind their products it gets well beyond frustrating

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## Markgibsonr25

> In the USA, actions, barrels & stocks can take 4-6 + months if not off the shelf.
> 
> Kirby is a one man band with a massive following, there are a few more people in the States than here & possibly a much higher percentage with firearms.
> 
> If you are promised a time frame, it gets frustrating when its exceeded, sometimes it happens, just the nature of manufacturing & relying on others.
> 
> When its not an isolated incident & they really don't care it gets exceeding frustrating.
> 
> When they won't stand behind their products it gets well beyond frustrating


When its not an isolated incident & they really don't care it gets exceeding frustrating.

When they won't stand behind their products it gets well beyond frustrating

The last two points probably sum up my hardy experience,Maybe nz is not his target market and he just plain don't care.

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## HB.

I've been waiting about a month just for a reply to an email I sent Greg Duley about a build. Understand their busy people but a bit concerning when the waits that long for an email let alone a build.

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## mcche171

I think Hardys are now more interested in the larger volume, large profit generating overseas market rather than the NZ one.

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## Echo

> I think Hardys are now more interested in the larger volume, large profit generating overseas market rather than the NZ one.


Of course... the NZ market is very small

US is huge

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## chainsaw

Was in local H&F store a few weeks back. They had one of the Hardy Carbon wrap barrel jobs on display.
Price tag $5k from memory. When I asked the guy why any one would fork out that much moolaaa for a T3 with some tinsel 
He said it was silly money & a mate his recently got a Hardy carbon crap in 6.5 creedmore - it was grouping like total shite. He'd tried heaps of pills and loads- all shite.  Any gunsmith can have the odd dud barrel but they should stand behind their workmanship. Reading this thread about the shite service on top of variable quality I would not touch this gear with a barge pole.

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## kiwiazonic

> Was in local H&F store a few weeks back. They had one of the Hardy Carbon wrap barrel jobs on display.
> Price tag $5k from memory. When I asked the guy why any one would fork out that much moolaaa for a T3 with some tinsel 
> He said it was silly money & a mate his recently got a Hardy carbon crap in 6.5 creedmore - it was grouping like total shite. He'd tried heaps of pills and loads- all shite.  Any gunsmith can have the odd dud barrel but they should stand behind their workmanship. Reading this thread about the shite service on top of variable quality I would not touch this gear with a barge pole.


If its that bad I would send it back to have the whole rifle looked at (barrel, bedding, bullets and trigger). It may not be a barrel issue at all. My Hardy carbon barrel is a tack driver. There were two wasps that landed on my target 100 yards away that I shot just using my test loads.
If it was a issue with the barrel, I'm sure Dan would put it right.

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## Kiwi Greg

> If its that bad I would send it back to have the whole rifle looked at. If it was a issue with the barrel,* I'm sure Dan would put it right.*


Good luck with that  :Oh Noes:

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## Kiwi Greg

> I think Hardys are now more interested in the larger volume, large profit generating overseas market rather than the NZ one.


Haven't heard much about the USA market, but the Aussies are having about as much fun as us....  :Sad: 

Not surprising really, pretty hard to go knock on the door when you are in another country.....

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## bully

> Was in local H&F store a few weeks back. They had one of the Hardy Carbon wrap barrel jobs on display.
> Price tag $5k from memory. When I asked the guy why any one would fork out that much moolaaa for a T3 with some tinsel 
> He said it was silly money & a mate his recently got a Hardy carbon crap in 6.5 creedmore - it was grouping like total shite. He'd tried heaps of pills and loads- all shite.  Any gunsmith can have the odd dud barrel but they should stand behind their workmanship. Reading this thread about the shite service on top of variable quality I would not touch this gear with a barge pole.


Seen it today, Rotorua.
Looks like it's been there a while. Seems well over priced. $1500 for a t3x 1000 for a stock. So $2500 for a barrel and suppressor... And I think it's more like $5250. 
It's a nothing gun in my opinion, Nothing the standard t3 wouldn't have done. 
In saying that, what ever floats your boat.
And Dan himself was very helpful on the phone,  and was willing to go beyond any other gun smith I phoned in New Zealand. 
Iv never used any of his products.

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## .300 RUM Guy

> Hello all, 
> 
> Just wondering if anyone here has a Hardy custom Rifle (Either the Scout/Tactical off their website or other custom Hardy builds). Curious on the reviews of them, and in comparison to defiance/surgeon actions and or builds.
> 
> Cheers guys! (and Gals)


I so pity you boi. I've been in pursuit of accuracy ever since I 'fatally' first read Greg Duley's write up about the Ultimate Handloads, back in 2008, around the time he first started his NZ Hunter magazine, and I may, 'MAY' (with no real degree of certainty) be only just starting to realize my dream about now. 

Through personal experience I can tell you first hand, it's neigh upon impossible to find a good competent gun smith/builder within New Zealand, that can slap together a rifle with any degree of accuracy worth writing home about, and I've been through the best of them, believe you me, and 'yes' brother Dan's been one of them!

Advice: If you must go through the painful 'custom build' route, then 'do' build it out of, like you say, a Defiance or a Surgeon type 'American factory trued' Action. 'Don't' build it out of a trued Remington or other 'needing to be' trued action (especially a Hardy action if 'he' makes them from from scratch) Remember, the point of this exercise is to keep incompetent NZ hands that need to do such work, to a bare minimum. It is incredible 'nail biting' stuff knowing that you're at work all day and some NZer is doing 'ANY' work to your rifle, let alone any work that's vital to accuracy!

Second lot of advice: Make damn sure you have an "ENDLESS SUPPLY" of cash... Believe in me, you're gonna need it! With gun building even a "firm written quote" is 'ONLY' a rough estimate at best, always allow 2 or 3 'large' above what they quote as a bare minimum (that way you 'may' have enough change at the end of it to buy yourself a celebratory bag of fish & chips, or something of that nature 'SHOULD' , in the unlikely event, the build emerge a success) and remember, there are no accuracy guarantees, as, despite what 'YOU', 'the naive customer' may believe, you're only paying for their "time" and NOT quality of workmanship or accuracy guarantees. They may say there is a sub harf MOA guarantee (which seems to be the standard crap you tend to hear a lot in custom gun building circles theses days, it's what the customer 'wants' to hear) but at the end of the day there's not, you're totally on your own with regards to accuracy! If it shoots like shit, they'll simply tell you that it doesn't like that particular bullet, or that 'you' can't shoot for shit or 'you've' somehow pulled the barrel off the rifle, or grow a fuc%@kn brain, or something of that nature, rest assured that whatever happens, it is "NEVER THEIR FAULT"! Cash wise, in the past 9 years it has cost me inXS of some $40,000 in the name of accuracy, again, trust in me, it's true!

Thirdly: Before going ahead with 'ANY' custom rifle build, slip your hands down your underpants and have a damn good feel around first. If you feel a swelling, lump or bulge, that 'shouldn't' normally be there (other than perhaps the barr-on that you may be experiencing, over the thought of your new rifle build) then 'DON'T' whatever you do, go ahead with the build... you'll be dead before you see it! Be warned, a custom rifle build takes forever plus one day!

Follow these simple, basic principals and you shouldn't go too far wrong... Have fun  :Have A Nice Day:

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## outdoorlad

@.300 RUM Guy  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:  and I thought buying a concentricity gauge was bad enough.

So.....who have you found to be the the best of the bunch? & worst?

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## MSL

> @.300 RUM Guy  and I thought buying a concentricity gauge was bad enough.
> 
> So.....who have you found to be the the best of the bunch? & worst?


No one decent enough in nz to be classed as 'best' apparently, haha.

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## gimp

> I so pity you boi. I've been in pursuit of accuracy ever since I 'fatally' first read Greg Duley's write up about the Ultimate Handloads, back in 2008, around the time he first started his NZ Hunter magazine, and I may, 'MAY' (with no real degree of certainty) be only just starting to realize my dream about now. 
> 
> Through personal experience I can tell you first hand, it's neigh upon impossible to find a good competent gun smith/builder within New Zealand, that can slap together a rifle with any degree of accuracy worth writing home about, and I've been through the best of them, believe you me, and 'yes' brother Dan's been one of them!
> 
> Advice: If you must go through the painful 'custom build' route, then 'do' build it out of, like you say, a Defiance or a Surgeon type 'American factory trued' Action. 'Don't' build it out of a trued Remington or other 'needing to be' trued action (especially a Hardy action if 'he' makes them from from scratch) Remember, the point of this exercise is to keep incompetent NZ hands that need to do such work, to a bare minimum. It is incredible 'nail biting' stuff knowing that you're at work all day and some NZer is doing 'ANY' work to your rifle, let alone any work that's vital to accuracy!
> 
> Second lot of advice: Make damn sure you have an "ENDLESS SUPPLY" of cash... Believe in me, you're gonna need it! With gun building even a "firm written quote" is 'ONLY' a rough estimate at best, always allow 2 or 3 'large' above what they quote as a bare minimum (that way you 'may' have enough change at the end of it to buy yourself a celebratory bag of fish & chips, or something of that nature 'SHOULD' , in the unlikely event, the build emerge a success) and remember, there are no accuracy guarantees, as, despite what 'YOU', 'the naive customer' may believe, you're only paying for their "time" and NOT quality of workmanship or accuracy guarantees. They may say there is a sub harf MOA guarantee (which seems to be the standard crap you tend to hear a lot in custom gun building circles theses days, it's what the customer 'wants' to hear) but at the end of the day there's not, you're totally on your own with regards to accuracy! If it shoots like shit, they'll simply tell you that it doesn't like that particular bullet, or that 'you' can't shoot for shit or 'you've' somehow pulled the barrel off the rifle, or grow a fuc%@kn brain, or something of that nature, rest assured that whatever happens, it is "NEVER THEIR FAULT"! Cash wise, in the past 9 years it has cost me inXS of some $40,000 in the name of accuracy, again, trust in me, it's true!
> 
> Thirdly: Before going ahead with 'ANY' custom rifle build, slip your hands down your underpants and have a damn good feel around first. If you feel a swelling, lump or bulge, that 'shouldn't' normally be there (other than perhaps the barr-on that you may be experiencing, over the thought of your new rifle build) then 'DON'T' whatever you do, go ahead with the build... you'll be dead before you see it! Be warned, a custom rifle build takes forever plus one day!
> ...


custom rifles.txt


buy a Tikka

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## chainsaw

Wow @300rum $40k is a big outlay.  I guess the definition of "accuracy" & expectations  can vary. I'm a hunter so anything around or under 0.5 Moa is my standard. Have done 5 custom builds mostly on R.E.M 700 actions and one Sako75.
All have met the 0.5 Moa or better.  Also own 2 other custom builds which I bought as 2nd hand rifles. One wsm which is 0.3 Moa and one 284 which runs in between 0.5 & 0.7 Moa. The 284 is not a full on custom build- just a 7mm08 rechambered to 284. But at 5&1/2 lb it's my fav bush gun & gives me legs out to 700 yds

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## Ginga

I got NZ Hunter to build a 7 saum using a Pierce titanium action, McMillan stock and a  Bartlein barrel. With a 26 inch fluted barrel and brake it weighs a touch over 7 1/4 lb with scope. Shoots well. Verified my drop drop chart at 500 yards with a 2 inch group. The carry and balance is superb. I'm happy! And it's custom!

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## camo wsm

> I got NZ Hunter to build a 7 saum using a Pierce titanium action, McMillan stock and a  Bartlein barrel. With a 26 inch fluted barrel and brake it weighs a touch over 7 1/4 lb with scope. Shoots well. Verified my drop drop chart at 500 yards with a 2 inch group. The carry and balance is superb. I'm happy! And it's custom!


Sounds nice got any pics  :Thumbsup:

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## Ginga

Yeah but fu$k knows how to post one!

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## veitnamcam

> Yeah but fu$k knows how to post one!


click the picture frame with the tree in it at the top of the reply box......two to the right of the envelope.

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## Cyclops

> Through personal experience I can tell you first hand, it's neigh upon impossible to find a good competent gun smith/builder within New Zealand, that can slap together a rifle with any degree of accuracy worth writing home about, and I've been through the best of them, believe you me, and 'yes' brother Dan's been one of them!


Well I must be very lucky.
I've got two 308 FTR rifles built with NZ components with the help of a NZ gunsmith using Barnard actions & True-Flite barrels.

Both rifles are competitive and accurate. Perhaps these are the exceptions to the comment above.

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## kiwijames

> Yeah but fu$k knows how to post one!


Ha ha. You're a tech retard.

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## Sidney

Funnily enough I have had probably a dozen rifles built over the years and all from several different people, built stocks and rebarrelled others and all of them have shot well given the spec of the components used and the type of weapon they are...

building rifles isn't rocket science and its not complex machining work.  It simply requires solid execution of basics.

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## Ginga

Jimmy six cocks. I may be a tech retard but you're a..........fucktard!

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## R93

> Jimmy six cocks. I may be a tech retard but you're a..........fucktard!


I am waiting eagerly for special Jimmy to post a pic.....just because he can😆

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## .300 RUM Guy

> I work in the motor trade  (Toyota) and i know we put an order through for a Land Cruiser 200 at the same time as I ordered this. In the same period the order has been processed, vehicle made, shipped from Japan and is now with the customer. 
> 
> If we fucked a customer around as much as they have we would be throwing money, vouchers, accessories etc at them.


The trouble with that theory is, what 'they' (gun builders, or any retailer, such as yourself, for example) are up against is this... they know full well it's gonna take 6 months (or more) to do your job, why hell, they've got orders from here to Africa, and you're just a speck in the ocean, and you mean NOTHING to them. If they went round telling the customer "hey, it's gonna take six months", then what would you (the consumer) do??? 

I'm mindful of a rifle I ordered back in, oh, 2005, I think it was, from Reloader's Supplies. They had to import it from the States, 'simple dimple'! Ron Dent told me that, because of the 911 terrorist attacks, it's gonna now take 3 months to land... it's that simple, can't do nothing about it  :Sad:  I took a deep gasp, not too dissimilar to landing in a pool of cold water, then went ahead and placed my order!  Nine months to the day that I placed my order, the thing actually arrived at my door! Grasp that people "NINE MONTHS"! I mean, it was a complete rifle, already built, in the States, all they had to do was ship it! (and just for the record 'NO', I didn't get any money thrown at me, gift vouchers, accessories, accolades or even any free ammo)

I told a workmate about the fact that I was told "three" months, and he straightway replied, 'stuff that, I'd be telling them to shove it', based on only the three months, let alone nine! You see, we're Kiwi's, and we want things done ASAP (preferably yesterday) therefore it's a delicate balancing act of telling the customer 'porkies' (what he thinks the customer wants to hear) and hopefully getting them committed, and then leading the customer for on as long as they possibly can, or, telling the customer the truth, up front, and risk having the customer bolt, and going elsewhere, and buying something different! I mean, you yourself have already stated, in a previous post, that the "*only reason I went with Hardy is because they said they could turn it around for the roar*"!

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## mcche171

Dead right. An update for you all. The rifle is on its way to me. Had a call from Ian who put his hand up and admitted it wasnt good enough and was too long. He threw some stuff in to butter me up a bit, which is appreciated. 

I will let you know how the thing shoots.

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## andyanimal31

ian is a top man to deal with I have found.
I have had great customer service from him personally.

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## mcche171

So i have just got the rifle back. Finish looks good. Ian put in the targets from his range session when he sighted it in and did the drop chart. Now he said is range was flooded so he shot from sand bags off the truck. in saying that the targets were not impressive at all. The best group was 1" with the other 3 groups being 1.4". Would expect better from a rifle that has had a chamber specifically made for that bullet. I hope with more shooting it settles down and shoots better.

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## Wildman

$5k+ for one inch groups after load development. Ouch. 

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## mcche171

na thats not a full blown rifle. Just the barrel. $1600 for the barrel plus the rifle

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## Kiwi Greg

> So i have just got the rifle back. Finish looks good. Ian put in the targets from his range session when he sighted it in and did the drop chart. Now he said is range was flooded so he shot from sand bags off the truck. in saying that the targets were not impressive at all. The best group was 1" with the other 3 groups being 1.4". Would expect better from a rifle that has had a chamber specifically made for that bullet. I hope with more shooting it settles down and shoots better. Attachment 69919


And you sold the factory barrel before you shot it ???? Bugger.... :Sad:

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## mcche171

Haha yes i did indeed. ill put another box or two through it and get back to you.

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## Kiwi Greg

> Haha yes i did indeed. ill put another box or two through it and get back to you.


Thanks, Good luck you will need it  :Sad:

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## R93

> So i have just got the rifle back. Finish looks good. Ian put in the targets from his range session when he sighted it in and did the drop chart. Now he said is range was flooded so he shot from sand bags off the truck. in saying that the targets were not impressive at all. The best group was 1" with the other 3 groups being 1.4". Would expect better from a rifle that has had a chamber specifically made for that bullet. I hope with more shooting it settles down and shoots better. Attachment 69919


I haven't read the whole thread so I may have missed it. What caliber is the rifle?

And to put your mind at ease if you don't already know, proper load development can take ages depending on what your expectations are.

If it shoots close to an inch now I reckon with the right attention it will shoot better again.

I doubt they would have had the time to have tested several projectile, powder and primer combos.

I have a carbon wrapped barrel that will shoot from 1" with one load down to ridiculously small with another using the same class projectile.

It might end up like mine and only shoot 1 projectile extremely well but shoot another couple of brands adequately for hunting.

Looks to be a nice job on the barrel and I am sure you will get it shooting how you want.




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## mcche171

6.5 creedmoor . Its running factory ammo  at the moment. it has only shot one box of one ammo. It was also having the barrel broken in, cleaned etc when that box was going through. The chamber was designed to run the 143gr eldx precision hunter ammo. I have also bought a box of 129gr to try. At a later stage when I have stopped travelling around the country every week for work  i will buy some dies for it and get into loading.

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## .300 RUM Guy

> So i have just got the rifle back. Finish looks good. Ian put in the targets from his range session when he sighted it in and did the drop chart. Now he said is range was flooded so he shot from sand bags off the truck. in saying that the targets were not impressive at all. The best group was 1" with the other 3 groups being 1.4". Would expect better from a rifle that has had a chamber specifically made for that bullet. I hope with more shooting it settles down and shoots better. Attachment 69919


It looks sexy enough. If you don't kill em with accuracy, you'll kill em with looks!

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## R93

I am doing load development for a mates creedmoor when I get home.
He just had a suppressor fitted and bought a heap of components and asked me to go for it.  He reckons he shoots it close to an inch with factory ammo now but admits he has not done much shooting after a long stint overseas. 
I am looking forward to mucking around with it.


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## outdoorlad

A mate from work had Hardy build him a 260, it's shooting mint. Luck of the draw I guess.

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## 25/08IMP

> I am doing load development for a mates creedmoor when I get home.
> He just had a suppressor fitted and bought a heap of components and asked me to go for it.  He reckons he shoots it close to an inch with factory ammo now but admits he has not done much shooting after a long stint overseas. 
> I am looking forward to mucking around with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


I found Hodgdon Superproformance works great in the Creedmoor with the 143 ELD X .

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## 25/08IMP

Why do you only do 2 shot groups.😆

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## R93

> I found Hodgdon Superproformance works great in the Creedmoor with the 143 ELD X .
> 
> Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


Was on my list of powders to try.


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## omark

There are several gunsmiths who have been putting together quality rifles since Adam was a boy ie the Collings family (trained by Din) and also barnard etc

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## GWH

> 6.5 creedmoor . Its running factory ammo  at the moment. it has only shot one box of one ammo. It was also having the barrel broken in, cleaned etc when that box was going through. The chamber was designed to run the 143gr eldx precision hunter ammo. I have also bought a box of 129gr to try. At a later stage when I have stopped travelling around the country every week for work  i will buy some dies for it and get into loading.


With handloading and good load development you will likely improve the grouping dramatically.

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## mikee

> With handloading and good load development you will likely improve the grouping dramatically.


But you should not have to 

When you pay good money for a "top" barrel then it should shoot period, with every thing you feed it.There should be no excuses.

 Load development should make it better but it should be well under MOA from the get go given factory rifles do this "out of the box". 

 I have personally  seen good custom rifles shoot well under with no load development. Recently a 30Nosler springs to mind. Load development should only make them better but should shoot well to start with

I hope your groups improve with load development in fact I  sure they will but why should you have to wear the barrel out to find a good load after all they have a finite life

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## R93

It's a given that 99% of the time a tuned handload will out perform factory ammo. 

We are also assuming in this case, the test groups were shot as good as they could have been. 
The fella doing the shooting could have had a less than ideal day. Still managed 1-1.5 inch groups which I would find encouraging if it were my rifle.

A rifle that shoots 1" with factory ammo will nearly always improve with a handload.

Saying it should shoot one brand of factory ammo straight from the rebarrel into tiny groups because other factory rifles do it is a bit of a stretch in my experience seeing it is carbon wrapped.

Carbon wrapped barrels are generally stiffer so in turn have different harmonics which can make them fickle when developing a load.




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## .300 RUM Guy

> Haha yes i did indeed. ill put another box or two through it and get back to you.


Well what's the latest cobba, how'd she shoot? Have you taken it to the range lately?

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## mcche171

> Well what's the latest cobba, how'd she shoot? Have you taken it to the range lately?




No not yet. Don't have access to a range in Chch at the moment. Does anyone around Chch have a paddock or something I could use? I normally shoot at the farm at peel forest but haven't made it down this weekend. Heading back to Hamilton on Monday so can't make hand loaders Tuesday night.

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## Kiwi Greg

> It's a given that 99% of the time a tuned handload will out perform factory ammo. 
> 
> We are also assuming in this case, the test groups were shot as good as they could have been. 
> The fella doing the shooting could have had a less than ideal day. Still managed 1-1.5 inch groups which I would find encouraging if it were my rifle.
> 
> A rifle that shoots 1" with factory ammo will nearly always improve with a handload.
> 
> Saying it should shoot one brand of factory ammo straight from the rebarrel into tiny groups because other factory rifles do it is a bit of a stretch in my experience seeing it is carbon wrapped.
> 
> ...


Considering they have a " Reamer specifically made for the 6.5 CM with 143 ELDX" & have built many rifles the same, getting it to shoot sub moa should be easy.

To get a Tikka 7RM, to shoot sub moa with 162s mag length for instance is "easy"

A custom or semi-custom rifle should not go to the client until it is shooting sub moa.

After all the Tikka's & a few others now have sub moa guarantees with factory ammo 

They are just mass produced rifles, not a custom rifle from a manufacturer who assures me "*Our tolerance for the chamber no matter where you measure is runout no greater than 0.005mm centric to the bore*"

Pretty bold statement that  :Have A Nice Day:

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## R93

> Considering they have a " Reamer specifically made for the 6.5 CM with 143 ELDX" & have built many rifles the same, getting it to shoot sub moa should be easy.
> 
> To get a Tikka 7RM, to shoot sub moa with 162s mag length for instance is "easy"
> 
> A custom or semi-custom rifle should not go to the client until it is shooting sub moa.
> 
> After all the Tikka's & a few others now have sub moa guarantees with factory ammo 
> 
> They are just mass produced rifles, not a custom rifle from a manufacturer who assures me "*Our tolerance for the chamber no matter where you measure is runout no greater than 0.005mm centric to the bore*"
> ...


Didn't know about the specific reamer, so fair enough. I agree maybe it should not have gone out shooting the way it does. I would be interested to know how many wrapped barrels they have done in the caliber and if they shot to expectations.


I will look forward to seeing how the owner shoots it.😆





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## kiwiazonic

I took my Hardy 7RM out to the range for load development and it shot moa or less for every charge weight. But when I hit the sweet spot I'm 5 shot grouping at 1/3 moa. 
What I also like is that I can buy a factory box of Hornady Superformace and they are about 2/3 moa.

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## Timmay

Almost as good as a standard Tikka then?  :ORLY:

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## kiwiazonic

yes that's why I own 2 of them. But the Hardy tikka is my favorite, real nice to shoot.

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## IngloriousFame

Has anyone had any time with one of those SSRNZ carbines? (Looks as though they're singe shot?)

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## Tahr

> Has anyone had any time with one of those SSRNZ carbines? (Looks as though they're singe shot?)


Yeah, I've seen it and handled it.Single shot. It was a one off for Scott himself and apparently too expensive to repeat. It was beautifully made. 7x39.

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## Tikka7mm08

Hang in there. Your rifle has potential. Mine started out .75 to 1MOA...then down to .6MOA and with eventually a sweet spot load .132MOA. Takes time, as can be seen from my 260AI load devt thread. Shooting it yourself with a consistent rest will give you your accuracy benchmark.

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## mcche171

Happy to report that I took mine to the range yesterday. Groups were as follows: 1.0, 0.75, 0.5, 0.3, 0.25, 0.3
So it clearly just needed some rounds through it after the barrel process. So to get that accuracy with factory ammo makes me a happy man.

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## MSL

Surely you've got some photos to show us? Sounds good

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## mcche171

I do have the targets. I forgot to take some photos before I jumped on the plane this morning. I will get the images for you guys on Friday when i get back home

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## mcche171

ok as promised: targets from range session.

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## mcche171

Sorry for being photo heavy and all of them being on the piss in one way or another. As you can see the gun shot better as it went, and think its limitations was the nut behind the butt. I rushed the 3rd and 4th group as i was trying to get them in before we had to stop to let some guys put some targets down. The 7th group was a 5 shot group and just as i thought i might get a nice big hole for it- i pulled the last one. This is just with factory 143gr eld-x precision hunter ammo. cant see any need for reloading

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## Sideshow

Wow you just have to be  :Cool: happy with that

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## mcche171

Yep. It is a .3" rifle if i do my part. Happy days

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## Tikka7mm08

> Yep. It is a .3" rifle if i do my part. Happy days


Told ya so...  :Have A Nice Day:

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## mcche171

one thing i have noticed after 20 rounds in there is a lot of shit in the barrel. Do you think a dry bore snake will help clear some of it out without cleaning the copper and carbon that it clearly likes?

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## Gibo

> one thing i have noticed after 20 rounds in there is a lot of shit in the barrel. Do you think a dry bore snake will help clear some of it out without cleaning the copper and carbon that it clearly likes?


Try it  :Grin:  Im certain it will remove most of the dust

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## Tahr

> one thing i have noticed after 20 rounds in there is a lot of shit in the barrel. Do you think a dry bore snake will help clear some of it out without cleaning the copper and carbon that it clearly likes?


Yeah, I do that and mine holds its accuracy. Its a Hardy barrel.

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## mcche171

had a catch up with Dan this morning re build and how it is shooting. Passed on that I am happy as Larry with my barrel and the accuracy it is producing. I have to admit i was pretty fucked off during the process with the time delays etc and i wasnt afraid to key board warrior it on here, but he confirmed what had been told to me earlier, that the hold up was with kiwi composites taking their time and hardy had to send send back my barrel to them as it wasnt up to standard. 
So I can  say that i would recommend the barrel and builds, yes time can be frustrating, but seems it wasnt all their fault. To be honest i will probably get another one done by them now too. 7mm mag is looking pretty good.

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## Tahr

At times its hard to know what to think. @Philipo put a bit of a scare into me when he said that Hardy's barrel maker had left and that the barrels have deteriorated. But I was committed by then and in any event my barrel has turned out primo. Scott Trail made a damn good job on it too.

Actually, I haven't heard first hand of a dud Hardy barrel.

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## Carpe Diem

Shamelessly stolen from Terminal Ballistics Knowledge base that also is I understand pretty similar to many of the people on this forums knowledge.

In the barrel making industry, the finishing processes are usually performed by the machinist himself. The blank bar stock is bored to the desired caliber after which a rifled button is pulled through the bore with near un-imaginable force. Following this, the bore is lapped to the desired finish which can be done with slugs or simply by hand with abrasive pastes. The goal of this finishing operation is to reduce friction within the bore in order to minimize copper fouling. The bore does not need to be mirror finished although in certain lights, a rifle bore will often appear as though it has been mirror finished (1200-2000 grit).

A smooth, suitably polished bore cannot eliminate copper fouling. Instead, the optimum bore will foul at a very low, very consistent rate. Accurate shooting is all about minimizing variables and a bore that to a greater extent holds a very small layer of copper without any rapid build up/ change of internal conditions, has the potential to provide long term accuracy between de-fouling operations.

The finish applied by the barrel maker/machinist is dependent on two simple factors; time and money. During times of a recession or great competition between manufacturers, a price war will always result in a reduction of high labor content procedures. To this extent, lapping is one of the first operations to suffer. In other instances, where a company is under such demand that it cannot get its rifles out to the consumers fast enough to operate effectively, final finishing operations are once again, reduced to a minimum. Sometimes, a rifle barrel may have a burr on the rifling land edge, seen as long flake. If the burr is thick, hand lapping operations will fail to break it away from the land. Worse still, if the rifle has been fired several times, the burr becomes forged into a lump type anomaly, wedged into a groove. Fire lapping with a harsh abrasive is perhaps the best method of removal for this kind of burr.

Faults also occur within the barrel making process which nobody could have predicted and are sometimes un-measurable, unable to be found until the rifle is at the range. Stresses within the steel can be problem, as are changes of internal dimensions (stress reaction) due to properties of the barrel material which regardless of quality, have individual properties from blank to blank.

A custom barrel maker has more control over all of these processes. If you visit a custom barrel making website such as True-Flite or Lilja, a list of grades is presented, the highest usually termed ‘ultra match’. The difference between the lowest grade barrel and the highest grade barrel is reflective of two basic factors - labor content and grade. The ultra match bore is graded for either consistency or desirable traits of internal dimensions and then lapped to an optimum finish which requires time.

Ultimately, the end user has final control over the finish of the bore. If the bore is of a high finish, the bore will need nothing more than normal cleaning/de-fouling operations. If the bore is rough, it will need final finishing by hand which for want a better term is called ‘breaking in’ the barrel.
 @mcche171 My own 7RM was a heavy fouler to begin and now over 2 years later and a few hundred rounds is delivering - low fouling and highly accurate results - yes i almost flicked it but @Happy bedding it an new Stainless lug and a few hundred rounds later and a forum brew fro reloading and its Shmeck!

So don't lose heart ! I also have a friend Darrin who has a barrel that he calls tight -similar issue for accuracy went town following Nathan methods and essentially hand lapping it and its come good...

I wonder how many others out there are failing on the accuracy front for similar reasons...

CD.

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## Sideshow

Plenty I'd say!
Just needs one of the above faults and away you go......straight off the paper  :O O:

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## jackmckinnon243

Had hardeys to re barrel my mod 7 and open up the bolt to a magnum face. They took a month before they sent it back to me saying they didn't want to touch it. Next thing they picked it back up from h&f and I got it back a couple months later and it wouldn't eject or fire so I sent it back. They then lost it for a couple of months and h&f wer no help at all! I eventually got it back just short of a year later and it is still a single shot. Am now head shooting deer at 300yds with it but will not be going near h&f or hardeys ever again. 

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## andyanimal31

> Had hardeys to re barrel my mod 7 and open up the bolt to a magnum face. They took a month before they sent it back to me saying they didn't want to touch it. Next thing they picked it back up from h&f and I got it back a couple months later and it wouldn't eject or fire so I sent it back. They then lost it for a couple of months and h&f wer no help at all! I eventually got it back just short of a year later and it is still a single shot. Am now head shooting deer at 300yds with it but will not be going near h&f or hardeys ever again. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk


Hey Jack, have you been down and had a face to face meeting with the hardy crew and given the chance to see if they can put It right?
I beleive that if what you say is true there should be a resolution in there somewhere.
How long ago was this?


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## Kahle

bought a Hardy full carbon 6.5CM rifle myself..looks great and buying NZ 
shot like shit at the range, 0.3 to 1.7 inch with the same hand loads..most over 1 inch.
sent it back and was told they used a faulty bedding compound, so they replaced it..and billed me $300 to get rifle back..
still shot the same so sent it back for a 1 in 7.5 twist barrel for 140 grains and re-bedding etc..
new barrel shot like shit...again.
phone Hardy for advice, first guy had no clue why and was going to ask Dan... still waiting for a reply.
have sold Hardy rifle and had Greg at Terminator make one with a Proof barrel, regular sub 0.5 inch and in the 0.1 when you do your bit..
would not buy Hardy rifle again, as they charged me to fix the faulty bedding they used and it still would not shoot.

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## mikee

> bought a Hardy full carbon 6.5CM rifle myself..looks great and buying NZ 
> shot like shit at the range, 0.3 to 1.7 inch with the same hand loads..most over 1 inch.
> sent it back and was told they used a faulty bedding compound, so they replaced it..and billed me $300 to get rifle back..
> still shot the same so sent it back for a 1 in 7.5 twist barrel for 140 grains and re-bedding etc..
> new barrel shot like shit...again.
> phone Hardy for advice, first guy had no clue why and was going to ask Dan... still waiting for a reply.
> have sold Hardy rifle and had Greg at Terminator make one with a Proof barrel, regular sub 0.5 inch and in the 0.1 when you do your bit..
> would not buy Hardy rifle again, as they charged me to fix the faulty bedding they used and it still would not shoot.


Funniest thing I have read today. You better hope you never have an issue with your terminator products rifle, their idea of standing behind their work is to blame everyone / everything else and run away...........

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## Kahle

you must mean Hardy as this is what they did..
had the wrong mag base plate which was replace by Terminator at no cost and no question...just fixed.

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## andyanimal31

> you must mean Hardy as this is what they did..
> had the wrong mag base plate which was replace by Terminator at no cost and no question...just fixed.


How long ago was this kahle?

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## mikee

> you must mean Hardy as this is what they did..
> had the wrong mag base plate which was replace by Terminator at no cost and no question...just fixed.


Nope Terminator Products,  I do not "Jest" I have the rooted parts (replaced to repair the rifle by another gunsmith) and the bill for doing so. So I paid a lot of money for a new gun went with all their recomendation, gave them more than enough chances to sort it, in the end it was repaired by another smith at my cost. 

I am getting the bolt rooted by their repair attempts to hang on the wall of my gun room to remind me that some peoples promises of "aftersales service and back up are not worth a pinch of powdered goat shit"

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## Sasquatch

When did this happen @Kahle and what hardy rifle did you get?

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