# Hunting > Game Bird Hunting >  Waikato News

## Happy

Copied off Fish Game Website or is that Dickheads Unlimited.. Try policing the hunters who take 600 - 700 on opening weekend both days. Oh well here we go .... Unsure if this is in or not as are banding results in yet ?

Matters Arising from Council Meeting of 15 December 2012 

1. 2013 Gamebird regulations set following debate on remits put forward and staff report, subject as usual to trend counts and banding results in January, along with any extraneous events that may have a material effect upon gamebird numbers – same conditions as for 2012 season set with the exception of:

• *Dabbling duck season reduced to four weeks running from 4 May to 2 June 2013.* 

• All F&G blocks to remain open for the duration of the dabbling duck season, excluding those not suitable for waterfowl breeding

• *Total shotgun capacity set at a maximum of three shells – no person shall hunt game with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells unless it is plugged with a one piece filler which is incapable of removal without dissembling the gun* 

• Previous exemption in Game Gazette regarding the waiver of restrictions on baiting waterfowl removed, ie. pond feeding and waterfowl baiting not allowed one month prior and during the gamebird season.

*Head hurts on the one above. Is that yes you can feed through out or no you have to stop one month prior and during.. Fucking write in Engrish you twats..*

• King Country special paradise shelduck season to be undertaken if trend counts reveal significant increase in the numbers in early 2013, however the season will only be for junior hunters, ie. those up to the age of 16.

• Northland paradise shelduck season to be undertaken dependant upon aerial trend counts in the New Year.

• Limit of shoveler duck to be 2 for the duration of the season.

Variations from open game season conditions allowing an unlimited number of hen and cock pheasants to be shot during the gamebird season provided for Matingarahi Station, Leigh Barton and Tui Ridge.

2. Council meeting schedule for 2013 set.

3. Council to look at the possibility of stocking Lake Puketirini with rainbow trout.

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## Rushy

Bloody hell Happy.  Translating the language for you - No feeding for a month prior to opening nor during the reduced season and if you have a shotgun that is capable of holding more than three shells the you need to modify its arse.  Oh and by the way as we think there may be too many Parries around we will let kids have a shot at them but not old buggers like you.  I think that pretty much sums it up.

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## Happy

Yes the rule changes above have been put in place..


  Email from Robyn

Looks like it is what it is... 

Yes the changes have been ratified and are therefore in place for this coming season.



Regards



Robyn Lingard

Office Manager

Auckland/Waikato F&G

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## Happy

> Bloody hell Happy.  Translating the language for you - No feeding for a month prior to opening nor during the reduced season and if you have a shotgun that is capable of holding more than three shells the you need to modify its arse.  Oh and by the way as we think there may be too many Parries around we will let kids have a shot at them but not old buggers like you.  I think that pretty much sums it up.


Yep it was just this double dutch line I was referring too.

 Previous exemption in Game Gazette regarding the waiver of restrictions on baiting waterfowl removed, ie. pond feeding and waterfowl baiting not allowed one month prior and during the gamebird season.

Thanks for that...   :Thumbsup: 

The old exemption on the regard of the waiver to be removed and not allowed   Farc meee !!

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## Rushy

> Yep it was just this double dutch line I was referring too.
> 
>  Previous exemption in Game Gazette regarding the waiver of restrictions on baiting waterfowl removed, ie. pond feeding and waterfowl baiting not allowed one month prior and during the gamebird season.
> 
> Thanks for that...  
> 
> The old exemption on the regard of the waiver to be removed and not allowed   Farc meee !!


Burocratic speak.

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## Happy

> Burocratic speak.


Yep and they can do two things 

1. KISS = Keep it simple stupid
2. KISS  My hairy fat arse ...

 :Psmiley:

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## Kiwikiwi

Well if that is the case then i would think that there licence sales will be down then.FFS who would want to pay around $90 to shoot for 4 weeks.There must be some real fuckheads running the show,whats wrong with bringing down the limit to 6 like they did 3 years ago and have a full season.I know that a great number of shooters only shoot the first weekend but the guys that put in the hard work like myself and others around me shoot the first week then every weekend after that,talk about penalize the shooters that had the sport blooded into them and have introduced a number of new people to the sport.

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## kiwijames

I really don't have a clue as to what your gamebirds are like in number but is it not the responsibility of F&G to ensure the limits reflect the resource? Less ducks = shorter season + restrictions. 
Im glad I have no interest in waterfowl as it sounds like either, duck shooters as a whole are a bunch of fools, or, all F&G have an agenda to do themselves out of a job.  

The feeding one is a bit of a double negative though. The exemption of the waiver has been removed. So Im guessing the feeding prior to the season was a standing rule that was waived but has now been removed?

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## Toby

Not all shooters are assholes just those few that shoot tons of ducks. F&G to me are pointless I don't see anything happening around my area I shoot kinda makes me wonder why I am paying for a licence. I have convinced dad when the maize gets harvested to borrow a mates digger to dig a pond in the paddock I'm hoping ducks will breed on it I will set some traps too. Try my best to keep my favorite sport.

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## paddygonebush

Can you put up the link of where this is from the fish and game website, i couldnt seem to find it.
Cheers

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## upnorth uplander

Im glad i shoot ducks in Northland F&G area

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Can you put up the link of where this is from the fish and game website, i couldnt seem to find it.
> Cheers



Not surprised you had difficulty. I consider myself pretty good but it took me a while.  Here is a link ...........

*Newsbrief December 2012 | Auckland / Waikato*

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## Happy

> Not surprised you had difficulty. I consider myself pretty good but it took me a while.  Here is a link ...........
> 
> *Newsbrief December 2012 | Auckland / Waikato*


I just heard that changes were afoot so emailed their office and asked the question 
Is funny reading comments throughout the forum where folks say not our area glad I shoot here   Truth is tho that whatever they use in one area will or could happen elsewhere   Who wants a bet that sub gauge lead will be nationwide banned in next couple of years ?? That's one example. We have to moan and be heard as if we are passionate about our sport and feel hard done by we have to tell them. My next bet would be a return to three shot guns max over the next as well . Which whilst that doesn't upset me as three ducks in one gun pick up is enough for me and gets a bit hard on dog , but if that was hunting rifles or ARs being reduced to three there d be some noises

Actually my gun swings better for me with 6 up it I ll have to add weight I reckon

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## Kiwi Sapper

> I just heard that changes were afoot.................. My next bet would be a return to three shot guns max over the next as well ........................


Er.......Did you follow the link?  The matters arising from the December meeting actually says............" Total shotgun capacity set at a maximum of three shells  no person shall hunt game with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells unless it is plugged with a one piece filler which is incapable of removal without dissembling the gun".

That gives the impression, to me anyway, that  it is now a fact. But I welcome comments accompanied by evidence pointing out that my impression is wrong.

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## Toby

Small game Isn't under fish and games control is it?

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Small game Isn't under fish and games control is it?


From scanning their web site I would say their "control" is limited to fish and game birds only. But if you see something with four legs flying, and it aint a pair of copulating ducks, I would exercise caution:>)

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## Toby

So the 3 shot thing is only while your hunting for game birds, after the season they can go back to full mags to shoot small game.

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## Kiwi Sapper

> So the 3 shot thing is only while your hunting for game birds, after the season they can go back to full mags to shoot small game.


If I understand your question, (and i may not) my interpretation ( for what it is worth ), is that as F & G only have "control" over fish and game birds, when they refer to "game" they mean "Game birds" not the four legged variety of animals covered by the general term "Game".

It then follows that by stating, " ....no person shall hunt game with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells..."they mean game birds and you or I could wander around with our tubes stuffed with more than 3 shells as long as we were not "hunting Game Birds". The i.s.s.u.e. however, is proving when challenged by one of their "STASI" that we we had no intention of "hunting Game Birds" but were after weasels, politicians and other vermin. 

That could prove very messy and difficult to prove  in an area where "Game birds" could be encountered, I would only be carrying my O&U  just to avoid such a messy confrontation but quite confident carrying the pump in an area where there were no "Game Birds" . 

Presumably, if there were no Game Birds in that area I would not encounter a F&G Stasi, cos they would have no need to be there. ..................Perhaps .:>)

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## Toby

I just realized I am retarded and read it wrong.

" ....no person *shall hunt game* with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells..."

I read this part as small game for some reason.

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## Happy

> Er.......Did you follow the link?  The matters arising from the December meeting actually says............" Total shotgun capacity set at a maximum of three shells – no person shall hunt game with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells unless it is plugged with a one piece filler which is incapable of removal without dissembling the gun".
> 
> That gives the impression, to me anyway, that  it is now a fact. But I welcome comments accompanied by evidence pointing out that my impression is wrong.


No it is a fact that guns must be pinned this season  in akl Waikato region I did not say it wasn't . I meant to add nationwide to my comment about potential pinning same as the potential to have sub gauge lead banned nation wide as it will be down south in a couple of years.. I m sure that it could go that way if we dont let the guys at fish n game know we dont support some of their solutions as the best choice.Sorry about that ! My comments apply only to Akl Wai where plenty of us feel a little peeved at these changes ..

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## Kiwi Sapper

What Ho Happy,
I am reassured by your concurrence about the 3 shell max.  As one gets older one does ponder as to whether the perspicacity is still working and your reassurance is welcomed.

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## Kiwikiwi

I have heard that the Eastern region has followed Akld/Waikato as well, but they get an extra days shooting.THey finish on Queens birthday Monday the 3 June,where as Akld/Waikato Sunday 2 June.If this is corect in what i have been told,then there is some real Fuckheads controling our sport

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## Toby

> there is some real Fuckheads *killing* our sport



Fixed it

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## Happy

> I have heard that the Eastern region has followed Akld/Waikato as well, but they get an extra days shooting.THey finish on Queens birthday Monday the 3 June,where as Akld/Waikato Sunday 2 June.If this is corect in what i have been told,then there is some real Fuckheads controling our sport


Yes you are correct . They at least dont have to make their shotguns pinned to three rounds like us in Akl Wai area. And you are right there are some funny things coming out from the C-ntrollers...

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## Scouser

> Yes you are correct . They at least dont have to make their shotguns pinned to three rounds like us in Akl Wai area. And you are right there are some funny things coming out from the C-ntrollers...


Happy, not ALL shotties have to be 'pinned'....my Mossy 500 will have the dowel that came with it, put back in to reduce it to 2 in the mag, 1 up the spout!!!!!!

Went 3 weekends last year, on opening day we got 5 birds between the 8 of us, and the majority of those guys are excellent shots.....wont really affect us, as duck numbers are down on the Waikato were we shoot!

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## Happy

> Happy, not ALL shotties have to be 'pinned'....my Mossy 500 will have the dowel that came with it, put back in to reduce it to 2 in the mag, 1 up the spout!!!!!!
> 
> Went 3 weekends last year, on opening day we got 5 birds between the 8 of us, and the majority of those guys are excellent shots.....wont really affect us, as duck numbers are down on the Waikato were we shoot!


You are right.. Mates Mossie came with new with no pin dunno maybe shop removed it ?. I ummm took mine out of extrema went thats not goin back in there and poof gone ... Mates got used semi same thing. Yes you are correct though they usually come with them.
Your opening day last year similar to ours but weather not duck related. Had 300 there on the Friday all jumped over the kaimais and rafted up along the mount to papamoa beach. We watched flight after flight go down the valley and over the hill
at our end. Miles up and miles away. Agree theres few ducks as well though things have changed..
My outlaws were watching them with binos as looked like a whale meeting first time they looked. They live on the beach Papamoa end and reckoned there were thousands of them. Mean time we got sunburnt as ...

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## Gapped axe

excuse my ingnorance, but what is a F/G STASI

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## Scouser

> excuse my ingnorance, but what is a F/G STASI


Recon its 'Fish & Game' Officer..........STASI were the East German state security....think Gestapo!

in other words 'a right shower of over officiating bastards!'.....

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Recon its 'Fish & Game' Officer..........STASI were the East German state security....think Gestapo!
> 
> in other words 'a right shower of over officiating bastards!'.....



You're on to it.......:>)

But I'm sure some of them are the nice guy that you would like your daughter to marry.

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## Gapped axe

Hmm had a feeling it was cheap shot. I'm one of the gentlemen who offer's my spare time (not that there is a lot of it) on a Voluntary basis, so that the public who pay for their licences, get the benefit of having a Ranger in the field checking that everyone is playing by the same rules. It must be nice for you to be out there enjoying yourself and a F/G Staci comes along to check you in a professional and efficient manner. He/ She then goes on to check others, so that you now know that the guy next to you has also paid and is not bludging of your licence payment. If it wasn't for us Stasi's your licence fee would be a lot more exspensive and there would be more offence's committed. Wouldn't realy be worth buying a licence as everything would be poached or nonexistant. Us Stasi's also give out useful information and advise on how you can improve your Hunting/ fishing efforts. Whilst working voluntary as a Stasi I have provideed emergency medical support and treatment on three different occasions, have pulled vehicles out of ditches, have towed boats and looked for lost luved ones. F/G are not Government funded, but rely soley on the money gained by licence revenue. If you don't agree with some of their policies and I don't always do. I do something constructive about it. I make informed submissions on what could possibly a better alternative. I have a Daughter, who one day, one would hope, will get married. If she brings home someone who has the depth in him to be involved insome form of community or voluntary work, I would welcome him with open arms. Currently my Voluntary Stasi work consists of:
Fish and Game Ranger
Local Rual Fire Chief
Local Coast Gaurd, SARS search advisor
Emergency Medic
Civil defence co-ordinator
Justice of the Peace 
 As well as a number of other roles, including helping others on this, and another forum, with Tinnitus issues. So while you are out in the field or at home playing tin soldier's, spare a thought for those like me who sacrifice time and money, to be a service to others. For the record both of my kids are active in the Rural Volunteer Fire Service as well as being members of a Surf Life saving Club. Stasi's what ever, at least not Crunchie the Clown in a wannabe military outfit. oops lost it the end

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## Breda

I am really surprised at how many people feel put out by the decisions of A/W F&G council. We accept that the population is in severe decline yet we don't want to do anything about it. Should we keep plundering an ailing resource pretending there is not a problem? 

I think A/W have been brave in making a couple of big calls that "may" help the resource. From my perspective steel shot and the allowance of unpinned auto's has had a dramatic effect on the population, together they are a burden on our resource in the hands of most hunters.

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## Happy

> I am really surprised at how many people feel put out by the decisions of A/W F&G council. We accept that the population is in severe decline yet we don't want to do anything about it. Should we keep plundering an ailing resource pretending there is not a problem? 
> 
> I think A/W have been brave in making a couple of big calls that "may" help the resource. From my perspective steel shot and the allowance of unpinned auto's has had a dramatic effect on the population, together they are a burden on our resource in the hands of most hunters.


No problem with that but half the hunting time half the license fees ?? Would you go buy half a pizza for full price ? Or maybe one gumboot ? So there are other issues as well combine that with the fact they underpatrol some areas and people get away with merry hell

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## Gapped axe

Do your bit and be come a Ranger, or a F/G Councillor then, rather than just winge about it, get active and volunteer, do somthing about it. You will be surprised how rewarding it can, be by putting something back into your sport. Obviously F/G need  more STASI'S.

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## Toby

But I can't be a ranger and go looking for naughty guys when I want to shoot

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## Breda

> No problem with that but half the hunting time half the license fees ?? Would you go buy half a pizza for full price ? Or maybe one gumboot ? So there are other issues as well combine that with the fact they underpatrol some areas and people get away with merry hell


Yes they are generally disinterested in policing the sport. Generally the worth of ranging effort relates to license checks in a season and a % compliance. The best time to do this is opening day on ponds close to roads with multiple shooters. They get checked every year nearly, which keeps the compliance figures looking great..... ( I don't seek to detract from the voluntary guys that do what they do for the love of the sport- though some probably weren't accepted to Traffic Cop school  :Grin:  )

Would I buy half a pizza for the full price? No, but I have a choice there. To stay lawful I need to buy a game license. It's less than half really anyway. We lost geese as a gamebird also remember.

The resource is in the state it is in now and we need to seek remedy for that. 

I love the opportunity to hunt so I do feel for you guys with a shorter season. I would happily stop at 4 birds if it meant I could hunt for 8 weeks. The trouble is that for most those four birds cost the lives of  others 6 (give or take)with steel and auto's.

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## Happy

Same here as well and with heaps of time blood sweat and tears not to mention money invested in creating ponds and planting stuff I want to shoot as well GA good on you for all of your hard work. I have no,problems with the front liners you won't catch me breaking the rules or the guys with me as we don't. Have always had friendly encounters with the ranger as have nothing to hide . You can't expect to cut a season in half and charge full price surely ? It's not on , half game of rugby anyone ?

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## Happy

> The resource is in the state it is in now and we need to seek remedy for that. 
> 
> I love the opportunity to hunt so I do feel for you guys with a shorter season. I would happily stop at 4 birds if it meant I could hunt for 8 weeks. The trouble is that for most those four birds cost the lives of  others 6 (give or take)with steel and auto's.


So Tim why are they not working to fix this problem cos it ain't going to fix itself. Cut the season down to opening weekend or one day 
Off topic do you write for some mags ? If so enjoy your articles if not sorry

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## Toby

> Same here as well and with heaps of time blood sweat and tears not to mention money invested in creating ponds and planting stuff I want to shoot as well GA good on you for all of your hard work. I have no,problems with the front liners you won't catch me breaking the rules or the guys with me as we don't. Have always had friendly encounters with the ranger as have nothing to hide . You can't expect to cut a season in half and charge full price surely ? It's not on , half game of rugby anyone ?


I have never seen a ranger and like you would have no problem if I did. But like you full licence fees half seasons and not seeing anything but declining numbers is shit house.

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## Gapped axe

Totaly agree with less birds on opening to give us more shooting days 100% agree with this. Sadly the majority of shooters want it all in one weekend and hardly bother going out after opening. Week nites after work, a quite pond close to home. Myself and daughter plus the dogs, Magic even when we get nothing. Cheaper to buy chooks at the super market, but then filling our freezers isn't the only reason we hunt, well me any way.

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## Toby

I didn't much last year and only missed about 8 days all up in the season. most nights I got nothing but I loved floating back down the river in the dark on my kayak

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## Breda

> So Tim why are they not working to fix this problem cos it ain't going to fix itself. Cut the season down to opening weekend or one day 
> Off topic do you write for some mags ? If so enjoy your articles if not sorry


You'll have a bit of a giggle at me next issue then I'm sure! Cheers Happy

There are some guys who really are interested in fixing the problem, they are just outnumbered with people who are motivated by other things. 

I love your attitude displayed in post 40 Toby. You don't have to be killing heaps to enjoy hunting. Some of the most memorable things don't relate to killing.

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## Fitzy

> I am really surprised at how many people feel put out by the decisions of A/W F&G council. We accept that the population is in severe decline yet we don't want to do anything about it. Should we keep plundering an ailing resource pretending there is not a problem? 
> 
> I think A/W have been brave in making a couple of big calls that "may" help the resource. From my perspective steel shot and the allowance of unpinned auto's has had a dramatic effect on the population, together they are a burden on our resource in the hands of most hunters.


Tim I think the issue here is that many hunters feel that the  A/W changes for this season are really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, and will have little if any affect on the duck population in the region.
The nub of the issue remains that over the past 20 years A/W has done a very poor job of understanding the resource which it manages - in reality there has been no research.
In addition A/W has not properly communicated with licence holders, and has resorted to some "orchestrated" hunting survey feedback and local club remits to provide support for its position.
Until recently I have never heard any suggestion that the duck population in A/W was at a critical level or that hunting harvest was having a significant impact. Even now this information is not coming from the Council.

It seems clear that hunting harvests have declined over the last 15 years in particular - the same time period in which we have had unpinned semi autos; robo duck decoys and increased pond feeding. Obvioulsy these new tools cannot have not been the cause of the duck population decline. What confidence can hunters have then that the changes this season will have any positive impact on the population - it may be that the horse has already bolted!

From my perspective the frustration being expressed is not a lack of support for changes which could positively impact on the duck pop, its more another vote of no confidence in the small cabal of councillors who have been on the A/W Council for 20 odd years and have presided over the decline in the duck population.
IMHO the changes for the 2013 season will result in a significant decline in licence sales which will have long term financial consequences for F&G management.

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## Happy

Im having a little exchange with  AWFG at the moment regarding simply licence fees for the reduced period. Its not political simply posed a question or two ..

 I got a huge email back full of remits reasons etc but not interested in politucal debate with them. Shes actually a nice lady but Id like a reply on the financial side.

Hi Robyn

Thats all fine and we could debate things in your email for weeks without getting any where closer to deciding why population has declined.
. 
Below is what I disagree with and ask for justification of it is purely the monetary side. Here I am in the circle of dabbling duck hunters so have a little feel for the way things are being discussed in my home town at least.
 Most are not impressed. They d probably be happy to be told for the good of your sport reduced bags or seasons blah blah blah and so we are reducing your licence fees to show our support but oh no. 
 Its like a slap and thinking whoaa are they thinking we are silly or something. We d all like to perform half a job and get full job pays.

The fact that on your website it tells us the following 

Species 
 Season Duration (dates inclusive) 
 Daily Bag Limit 
 Hunting Area 

Grey/mallard duck and any hybrid of those species 
 4 May to 2 Jun 2013 


This equals a total of 30 days shooting available . Historically our season has been for 

Species 
 Season Duration (dates inclusive) 
 Daily Bag Limit 
 Hunting Area 

Grey/mallard duck 
 4 May to 30 Jun 2013 


This equals 58 hunting days available.

So effectively you are asking us to pay for 58 days and allowing only 30. At your fee of $90.00 for the period (which is probably all that 90% of shooters actually use) this equates to $1.55 per day. This 90 % will now only be allowed to shoot danbbling ducks for 30 days. Therefore fairly we should be paying only $46.50 for the priveledge to do so.

Taking the additional $43.50 is robbery.I do not think your shooters will be happy with this and have already stated yes maybe the season does need to be shorter due to the lack of ducks  

Bottom line this is not right. If there is to be shorter season allowed then shorten the fee accordingly. Maybe you create a dabbling duck licence or sell a 30 day licence to the  90 %. We are taking some pain so shouldnt you guys ?

I have heard lots of people comment why bother getting a licence when you re treated this way ?

Thanks for your time...  Regards Blah Blah Blah

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Hmm had a feeling it was cheap shot. I'm one of the gentlemen who offer's my spare time (not that there is a lot of it) on a Voluntary basis, so that the public who pay for their licences......................


Well done. However, please note ,I did say......."But I'm sure some of them are the nice guy that you would like your daughter to marry.".

Now, your turn, Would you like to declare that every one of you "gentlemen" is as civic minded, upright, humanity filled, virtuous  open minded, honest and as philanthropic as you?........AND NO, I am not taking the wee wee. 

It is for at least one such as you which I knew existed,  I added the final paragraph to my post................And as an aside, I don't shoot ducks, never have shot ducks and never will.

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## Breda

> Tim I think the issue here is that many hunters feel that the  A/W changes for this season are really just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, and will have little if any affect on the duck population in the region.
> The nub of the issue remains that over the past 20 years A/W has done a very poor job of understanding the resource which it manages - in reality there has been no research.
> In addition A/W has not properly communicated with licence holders, and has resorted to some "orchestrated" hunting survey feedback and local club remits to provide support for its position.
> Until recently I have never heard any suggestion that the duck population in A/W was at a critical level or that hunting harvest was having a significant impact. Even now this information is not coming from the Council.
> 
> It seems clear that hunting harvests have declined over the last 15 years in particular - the same time period in which we have had unpinned semi autos; robo duck decoys and increased pond feeding. Obvioulsy these new tools cannot have not been the cause of the duck population decline. What confidence can hunters have then that the changes this season will have any positive impact on the population - it may be that the horse has already bolted!
> 
> From my perspective the frustration being expressed is not a lack of support for changes which could positively impact on the duck pop, its more another vote of no confidence in the small cabal of councillors who have been on the A/W Council for 20 odd years and have presided over the decline in the duck population.
> IMHO the changes for the 2013 season will result in a significant decline in licence sales which will have long term financial consequences for F&G management.


I can't disagree with you. I am not suggesting the measures taken are going to work either, just that they are trying. Management sometimes requires big calls. It would be nice to know those big calls will work.  

Are you saying figures have been manipulated to show mallards are declining or you are happy with the fact they are declining but don't feel modern hunting techniques have anything to do with the depleted resource?

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## Toby

People with semis I reckon help dent the population through the wounded and killed, add pump actions too I can empty a mag at a mob sometimes.

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## Happy

Uummmm I had a 1 hour convo with a F  G rep this Arvo I m awaiting more info but I m gonna have to get involved and put ones money where the mouth is or whatever. I was stunned that he knew nearly as much as me but not at grounds root level. All I can say really for now  as left slightly realigned and slightly stunned   I ll pay my fees same as for 50 days bot only getting. 28. But will have more to say when and if he sends me the info requested  There seems to be more happening in the back ground than we are aware of and woe  is them for shit education but  ???  from what I gathered there stuff both camps need to learn and if half was correct times are gonna change and we all need to move deep south ( past R93 country tho )

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## Fitzy

Tim there is no doubt duck nos in A/W have declined but I for one don't believe hunter harvest or improved hunting technology is the cause of this decline. The reduced nos of ducks shot each year over the past 10 years revealed in surveys support this.
As to manipulation of stats etc A/W hunters were last asked year do you want 3 shots or a short season? They responded by indicating 3 shots was ok but season length would be unchanged.
So what happens - we got both! 
Some shooters have suggested that those hunters selected for survey were less than "random". There is little doubt that remits from several A/W clubs were orchestrated by sitting councillors.

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## Happy

Hmmm license bought last few or more years never got surveyed bugger ?

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## southernman

I just drove up to Kawhai and Aotea Harbours from Bell Block, in via Otorohanga and out via Piripiri and Waitomo, seen lots of parries and perhaps dozen mallards, theirs hardly a pond with any water anywere, just a few ducks in the inlets and bays. never seen a grain crop in the whole drive, lots ponds all overgrown with bullrushes, flax and weeds.  The few creeks all had stock threw them, 
  You guys have a habait problem, 
  No amount of shot gun and date dittering is going to fix you duck number problem.

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## gqhoon

Hard to know exactly what you’re referring to in regards to your conversation with F&G, but the information is there if people are willing to educate themselves about it.

Maybe you’re referring to the research work into wetland productivity that is being done by a Master’s student? or maybe the National research program that A/W staff are heavily involved in? Or maybe the initiatives to encourage hunters to rear and release gamebrids to establish new populations?

I don’t disagree that F&G could do a better job at promoting themselves (as an organisation) and unfortunately have next to no profile and relationship with their stakeholders. Clearly, things need to change in that space if they wish to have any longevity. However, aside from a few who have been in the job for far too long, the majority of staff that have a science / bio background are actually very good. They know there are huge gaps in the knowledge base and are seeking to fill those gaps by undertaking research etc. However, it will take time (National project is 5 years) and I sincerely hope it is not a case of ‘too little, too late’.

However, that is not to say I agree with some of the decisions that are being made in terms of Gamebird Regulations, and in particular the rationale behind them. However, the staff are the paid experts and we must have confidence that they will make the right decisions for the long-term survivability of our Sport. Our Sport has been controlled by the same dozen or so people for the last 20 years. It has taken considerable efforts over the last 5 or 6 years to start breaking down the barriers to new ideas and direction. I see there are at least 3 members of this forum who stood for A/W F&G Council last elections, unfortunately unsuccessfully (myself included). I wonder how many of you actually bothered to vote, given you all seem so concerned now that the decisions are having a direct impact on you?

Writing emails to Robyn (the office lady) and arguing for a reduced licence cost is pointless. The recommendation has been made and accepted by the Minister, a Whole Season licence is $90. Suck it up and move on.

Some of the language used on this forum that is being directed to staff / Councillors is quite shameful. The anonymity of an internet forum is fantastic if you wish to take a cheap shot at someone without any fear of them having a crack back at you. I suggest you put your money where your mouth is and turn up to Council meetings. Look those same people in the eye and call them “fuckheads”……I predict you will soon lose some of your bottle.

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## Fitzy

Well said GQ!

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## Happy

[QUOTE=gqhoon;97338]
Writing emails to Robyn (the office lady) and arguing for a reduced licence cost is pointless. The recommendation has been made and accepted by the Minister, a Whole Season licence is $90. Suck it up and move on.

QUOTE]

As above my post said Id had a discussion with both Robin (we were laughing and chatting thanks not arguing at all there were no personal conflicts or harsh words on either side) and a couple of others in the office and also that Ive sucked it up as you put it ...

They were also more than happy to take on board some one elses side of the story as well and thats that... There is work to be done on their side for sure getting us stakeholders on side through maybe education same as the fish guys do and various other ways.

Now unless we get some seriously serious rain it seriously aint even going to be an issue this season with a visit to our three ponds last night and as expected not a lot of water....

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## Lentil

Nice reply gqhoon, and some good points made. I do vote each time, as I am not prepared to put myself up for election for a number of reasons, so I feel I owe it to the sport to try and elect those who I feel will best represent my interests. I was concerned that my area (Eastern F&G) had a bias towards the fishing side due to the Rotorua lakes and the income derived from fishing licenses, so I chose those who seemed to have a greater gamebird background.

I think every license holder should vote at each F&G election. It will take time, but democracy does work, and those who are no good should be weeded out.

As far as the "fuckheads" comment goes - I don't think anybody would say that to a councillors face. Maybe it is just someone showing a bit of passion, and chose the wrong words. I do agree however, that this forum is an ideal vehicle to express ideas etc, and that personal attacks are counter productive and I do not like to see them. I do like some of the freely expressed ideas, and while they may lack the eloquence of your reply, they can carry some important messages. Again - democracy at work.

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## Breda

> Tim there is no doubt duck nos in A/W have declined but I for one don't believe hunter harvest or improved hunting technology is the cause of this decline. The reduced nos of ducks shot each year over the past 10 years revealed in surveys support this.
> As to manipulation of stats etc A/W hunters were last asked year do you want 3 shots or a short season? They responded by indicating 3 shots was ok but season length would be unchanged.
> So what happens - we got both! 
> Some shooters have suggested that those hunters selected for survey were less than "random". There is little doubt that remits from several A/W clubs were orchestrated by sitting councillors.


Is there a chance better technology could be helping to extract more from a dwindling resource? (giving a false read of what is going on until it is plainly obvious). Surveyed bags- if people tell the truth it still doesn't tell the entire story of hunter mortality. I simply do not buy the "theory" that hunter harvest has no effect on population. Why have a limit at all if that is the case? If you thought your hunter survey was odd our hunter survey asked if you were using 2 3/4 or 3 inch shells. While I do know who that information might benifit I know it doesn't help waterfowl management. The surveys are better than nothing, but only just. 

On the "technology" thing- would you say there is as much "etiquite" or "sport" involved in duck shooting or duck hunting (how ever you view it) as there was in the past? I'm interested in anyones thoughts on this....

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## Fitzy

Interesting points Tim. For clarity I don't think I'm saying harvest has no affect on population, just that it has not been the root cause of the pop decline in A/W over the past 10 years. Based on anecdotal comments from several shooters whom I respect it would seem probable that the pop level has now dropped to a point where hunter harvest could have a detrimental affect on the ability of the population to recover. On that basis regulation changes to reduce hunter harvest should be supported.

No one has yet explained the logic of banning pond feeding in the middle of what could be the worst drought in 50 years - how does this assist the duck population? Why has the A/W council not had the balls to reconsider this decision?
In reality banning pond feeding is just an example of mis guided socialism and smacks of the petty jealousies which affect so many of this councils decisions.

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## Breda

> Interesting points Tim. For clarity I don't think I'm saying harvest has no affect on population, just that it has not been the root cause of the pop decline in A/W over the past 10 years. Based on anecdotal comments from several shooters whom I respect it would seem probable that the pop level has now dropped to a point where hunter harvest could have a detrimental affect on the ability of the population to recover. On that basis regulation changes to reduce hunter harvest should be supported.
> 
> No one has yet explained the logic of banning pond feeding in the middle of what could be the worst drought in 50 years - how does this assist the duck population? Why has the A/W council not had the balls to reconsider this decision?
> In reality banning pond feeding is just an example of mis guided socialism and smacks of the petty jealousies which affect so many of this councils decisions.


I don't think feeding is banned just shooting over a fed pond I'd imagine. The problem with feeding is luring alot of ducks into a defined area. I can take or leave pond feeding.

One of my theories (an I have many) is that flappy ducks are particularly harsh on young birds. I think we are taking out a much greater % of young than we ever did. Over a number of years I think there is the potential for an aging duck population to become less productive. I have used the analogy before of a farmer killing off all the ewe lambs. No replacements and eventually no breeding.

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## gsp follower

> I don't think feeding is banned just shooting over a fed pond I'd imagine. The problem with feeding is luring alot of ducks into a defined area. I can take or leave pond feeding.
> 
> One of my theories (an I have many) is that flappy ducks are particularly harsh on young birds. I think we are taking out a much greater % of young than we ever did. Over a number of years I think there is the potential for an aging duck population to become less productive. I have used the analogy before of a farmer killing off all the ewe lambs. No replacements and eventually no breeding.


so would you think a drake heavy limit might help as opossed to our self imposed one??for say the last month[2months for those with 3 month seasons], of the season ??
it would get the shooters out of the road in the first month then the hunters can concentrate on bieng just that. :36 1 5:

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## Breda

> so would you think a drake heavy limit might help as opossed to our self imposed one??for say the last month[2months for those with 3 month seasons], of the season ??
> it would get the shooters out of the road in the first month then the hunters can concentrate on bieng just that.


I don't know if it would help. I don't think it would be a bad thing. I practice shooting mainly drakes myself. I think it would be great if those in positions to influence peoples attitudes and actions embraced a culture of selective moderate hunting.

Well I'm away for a few days. Anyone else heading into the hills have a good safe time. Best of luck.

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## Rushy

Guys I am not sure whether you know or not but I have just read on the Herald website that the Eastern BoP area will only have a 4 week duck shooting season this year.

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## Toby

Yup, licence fees went up too Rushy  :Grin:  pay more for less

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