# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  secondhand shotguns

## lophortyx

virtually secondhand shotguns have disappeared from the retail shelves of gunshops.  Guncity in christchurch being a notable exception, i ask myself why is this? do sites like trademe offer a marketplace they cannot compete with, or is the trend now to buy new? a well made shotgun would not be worn out by generations of hunters,so the second hand market has some real bargains. do hunters buy new because they haven't got the confidence/knowledge to buy second hand.? Or do they think new guns are modern and hence are superior to guns produced 20,- 30-,50-, 80- years ago? i would be interested to read of other comments.

----------


## matto1234

I brought my first shotgun second hand purely because of cost, my next shotgun will almost certainly be second hand also. I prefer modern shotguns that shoot steel and capable of 3-3.5inch shells

----------


## mikee

I quietly live in the hope that some one will sell granddads old shotty cheap cause its old. I would not mind a 100 year old H&H manufactured shotty.

It I can't hit the target with 1oz loads then 3 1/2 in shells won't magically fix that either.

In saying that I brought new 2 times out of the 3 I currently own. Second hand 870 and a couple of new U/O's (because I could)

----------


## Freezer

A lot of quality second hand guns are sold through word of mouth and clubs.

----------


## Beaker

I like new, because I want certain features, can't be bothered looking (even buying new you may have wait) for someone to hopefully sell one and at least if something isn't right, you take it back.

However, I would be like mikee if I saw a second hand something that was undervalued....

----------


## rockland

I think a lot of older shotguns just wear out after a heap of use and not worth fixing.
So cheap to buy a reasonably good new gun these days with modern gas systems/actions/barrel/choke design...
as a left-hander, I can say there has never been a better range for me to choose from!

----------


## Pointer

I've never bought a new shotgun. Rifles sure, but a well made shotgun will still be doing it a century later. Last week I went hunting with a 140 year old gun, as strong and reliable as any modern gun I own. 

I do own cheaper shotguns like Yildiz, but you do have to admit they will have a shelf life. I know in 30 years time it won't be alive, yet my Miroku will still be chugging along.

----------


## mikee

> I think a lot of older shotguns just wear out after a heap of use and not worth fixing.
> So cheap to buy a reasonably good new gun these days with modern gas systems/actions/barrel/choke design...
> as a left-hander, I can say there has never been a better range for me to choose from!


Most quality under and overs  or SxS last a long long long time, "dirty guns"  are another matter all together!!

I brought mine with the intentions of them being handed down to my nephew when I'm done with them

----------


## lophortyx

well i've acquired a few more shotties than necessary. there are some excellent used guns for sale out there, twice the quality and half the price of some inferior new guns.i like the sxs and yes i'm also fond of u/o's but then i have a few semi's too.i guess if you are a waterfowler you are going to be in love with a semi, yes you can have the 3 and a half inch chamber. i am happy with 3 but i mostly shoot 2 and 3/4,s. i love guns with the romance of history. i shoot with a gun made in 1877 and another in 1888 also one in 1892.these only get used once or twice a season.and i only use 28gm loads.geese i use an auto but i have a 35 inch barrel,3 inch chambered sxs i will take out,especially if there is a group going,it always causes a ribbing but when i'm up to it,it can change a few outlooks.quail duck and pheasant, the doubles win out. i think the main reason more shooters do not buy on the second hand market is that they are not familiar enough or feel competent to judge a guns merit for themselves.also they do not know where to find a competent gunsmith who will do repair work, should it be required. that's a shame as there is a lot of fun to be had in the world of older shotguns.

----------


## MAJOR F

hi when i was in auckland recently i was in a h and f store and asked where the 2nd guns were and the chap there told me that no one seems to bring in any trades and that they are all on tme i have found when out and about the country the smaller rural towns that have gunshops have better pickings esp older sxs .

----------


## Taff

As most sales these days are of semi auto shotguns, you will see less second hand on the market, simply because the cheaper modern guns don,t last, and you need a minimum of 6 shots per duck.
People don,tell there old SS or OU because there is no market for them, so the price offered is low, it's a bit like old 303s they still kill as well but the marketing people will tell you it's not the calibre to be used (this year)

----------


## lophortyx

i only had one shotgun for many years and happy with it.then i began to look for the "perfect gun". by the time i realised the money would have been better spent at a gun club or paying for tuition, it was too late, i was hooked on shotguns, the design. how they worked,the history and the artistry of the select. on the subject of shotguns today, a lot of it is in marketing,the latest and greatest.yes i know this will not put more game in the bag,anymore than shooting with 42gram loads will bring in more birds. we are all seduced by images, and the one i would like to remind hunters out there, are the qualities of a fine double,yes you can obtain one of these beauties for as little as two or three hundred dollars, rework the stock,refinish if necessary,fit a good pad,have the chokes opened etc. and you have a gun that you've invested a little of your soul in,and if you don't bring a bird down in those two shots,well then it deserves the right to fly to another horizon.you'll be a better hunter.

----------


## mudgripz

+1    

Some of the old SxS and U/O shotties are lethally efficient.

Dozens of rifles/guns go through our closet as we like to field/bench test alot of makes/models, but some prove so good at their job I will never part with them.  Strange as it may seem, one of these is a 1940s Savage side by side. Built like a tractor, not a single attractive marketing point, zero modern features, kicks like a bloody horse, but it has beautiful old 30" barrels with tight chokes, and has long proven itself a superb hunter in the field. With pattern tested 3s and 4s it does not miss bunnies out to 55m, and has notched 49 from 50 shots, and 48 from 50 in the field. 

Cost $100, clouts me in the jaw whenever I get a bit sloppy, but I'm slightly in awe of the old girl, so in the closet it will stay. Some of these old doubles can be absolutely deadly in the field.

----------


## 308

I've got an old sxs shottie for sale if anyone wants it

----------


## Lux

I bought my first shotty off Trade me stoeger m2000 in carbon for $550 with mag ext 7 +1 put a few 1000 rounds through it now on clays seams to jam for other people i love it. got my second shotty of TM 2nd hand as well cheap brand pump action 6+1 with mag ext payed $270 both guns were like new people buy and never used. next id like another semi auto Mariner Nickel  maybe. just like the look. Be a while before i look at old school shot guns all tho i have respect for them. AR's next on my list to buy.

----------


## Jimmynostars

"Can I put 3"steel through it?" Probably puts off most punters. Grab em while you can

----------


## Bob Da Browning

I come across lots of quality old or secondhand shotguns but usually when fitting a new gun for somebody & just ask them what they are doing with their old one (usually trap or skeet guns) & they just keep em in the safe cos selling them is just a hassle & don't want people to know what they have. I know I just sold off some surplus guns & did it through club websites & word of mouth. Skeet guns make great steel shot duck guns & trap guns go fantastic with 20gauge inserts (some people think 28" barrels are no good for trap lol so can be bought cheap too)

----------


## Pointer

@rambo6mmrem is on the prowl for a useable hammer gun for a good price, anyone know of any?

----------


## 308

> @rambo6mmrem is on the prowl for a useable hammer gun for a good price, anyone know of any?


Got a 12G sxs cheap
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...ms-sale-28120/

----------


## Wirehunt

SxS shotguns are a pain in the arse to buy here, go for a different gauge and its a nightmare.  I looked for months for a sxs 28ga with ejectors but gave up and grabbed an O/U, it and me are away to the shop next month to get fitted as the bloody thing is cast the wrong way, it wasn't sold to me as a lefty but it is   :Sad:

----------


## lophortyx

sub gauge's are always few in number,not easy to buy second hand as it's a gauge thats grown in popularity over the last ten years.if you want a left hand cast as well,then that would be a rare number.there is always hope i have acquired 3 24 ga sxs over the years,sorry to say,they are right hand cast.

----------


## mikee

I'd be interested in a S/H  28ga SxS should anyone happen across one.

----------


## MAJOR F

Me too mikee very hard to find

----------


## Wirehunt

The evil chain bought some in, non ejector and no use for rabbits but would be good for bird shooting as they are set for that.

----------


## Pointer

I think any sub gauge sxs is rare here, 28g adds to it. Then  add Damascus and hammer and it gets really oddball. I live In hope. Smallest gauge sxs I have is a 16g underlever

----------


## kawhia

few turk guns available in 28g including sxs.

----------


## Pointer

Those khans though  :Zomg:

----------


## mikee

> few turk guns available in 28g including sxs.



I would prefer waiting for something a wee bit better'er than that.  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Wirehunt

> few turk guns available in 28g including sxs.


WHERE??????

----------


## Wirehunt

> Those khans though


A mate has one O/U 28 ga poorly built but man does it point.   I took his out and smacked 44 for 44, dropped the next two then back on track.   That was over a warren with the ferrets, so not easy shooting.

----------


## MAJOR F

H AND F have akkars sxs in 28g and in two grades a mate bought one its an ok gun quite short in the stock and a slightly unusual stock as in its not quite a english straight grip allmost a swan neck stock but not quite hmmmm it seems well built but there oil finish leaves a bit to be desired but the price is right ,not as well finished as a yildiz or a khan for that matter ,i have an akkar 28g semi and everthing is good on her except the final finish on the stock the woods great ,lots of figger and colour so i will do a refinish job with tru oil and it will be mint

----------


## Bob Da Browning

My young fella used my sxs  with .410 inserts his first season (he was 8 yrs old) & then 3/4oz 12gauge (like 28gauge but better pattern) on rabbits. We used Briley 20g inserts in the sxs last season. 12g sxs are easily available & inserts are pretty cheap so make a great combo.

----------


## Pointer

I have some old guns (12g and 16g) plus a miroku mk10 20g in the for sale section at present

----------


## lophortyx

two sxs an AYA no. 2 and a Victor Sarasqueta Mod. 11E. Got lucky on these. Another nice pair. Round body 28ga. yes it drops pheasants,and a 20ga.,fell in love with the wood.

----------


## Hendrik470

You have some Very nice examples! Thanks for sharing, here are a few more.

----------


## lophortyx

nice. who are the makers?

----------


## Hendrik470

Left to right is
Heym Mod 80 in 7x57R
Westely Richards 16Ga
Merkel 140 in 470NE
Merkel 12Ga

I don't discriminate between shotguns and rifles, as long as its a sxs!

----------


## MSL

My father got given a Merkel 12ga sxs a couple of years ago, it's very nice to shoot.

----------


## lophortyx

this is a 16ga hammer gun made in 1883.it is almost in mint original condition.(unrestored.)AFTERNOON SHOOT.GUNS,BENELLI m2 12GA,THE WOOD VERSION,AND AN AYA SIDELOCK 12GA.

----------


## Spudattack

Samuel Marson 20ga

----------


## johnd

C'mon Major F put up some pics, you must have some of those old guns lurking there.  :Cool:

----------


## Bob Da Browning

Wow lots of Gun Porn right there, way cool.

----------


## lophortyx

this is a very interesting gun. manufactured in 1902.who can guess the manufacturer,the country of origin,and anything about the features of the gun.the barrels will be blue at some stage but otherwise the gun will stay as it is.yes i have shot it. i bought this from a gunshop - it was not in going condition,sold as parts only,anyone care to guess what i paid for it.

----------


## lophortyx

these additional photos may help.

----------


## Pointer

French? Even though the engraving screams Belgian?

----------


## lophortyx

yes it is french even the engraving.

----------


## Kiwi-Hunter

> Attachment 59190this is a very interesting gun. manufactured in 1902.*who can guess the manufacturer,the country of origin,and anything about the features of the gun.*the barrels will be blue at some stage but otherwise the gun will stay as it is.yes i have shot it. i bought this from a gunshop - it was not in going condition,sold as parts only,anyone care to guess what i paid for it.


The out come of this is?
KH

----------


## Hendrik470

Id be keen to know more as well

----------


## lophortyx

this gun is a 24ga. and manufactured by Manufrance,an "Ideal" model of which there are various grades.the cartridges shown are a .410,28ga,24ga.,20ga., 12ga., and a 16ga.the fascinating thing is that this is a round bodied,trigger plate action gun.today if you wanted to buy the equivalent british gun from the same era,you would be looking at a Dickson or MacNaughton,scottish made, and these start at us$10,000 WITH MANY $20,000 PLUS. i acquired this for a few dollars more than i later paid for the book.also you may note that Baikal borrowed the opening lever design at a much later date for their single barrel rifle and shotguns.the gun weighs about 5lb.it comes up beautifully but like all lightweight shotguns it takes a bit of practise to keep the gun going on crossing shots.ammo is available,but shot choice is limited and expensive,about $300 a slab.i had to have the chambers eased as i think it was made for brass cases,and the fiocchi plastic ones wouldn't fit.my guess is the it was made to carry with the idea of potting something a rabbit,hare or maybe woodcock,snipe.low noise and easy to carry.i had the snap caps especially made.i have become very fond of this gun.

----------


## Kiwi-Hunter

> Attachment 59544this gun is a 24ga. and manufactured by Manufrance,an "Ideal" model of which there are various grades.the cartridges shown are a .410,28ga,24ga.,20ga., 12ga., and a 16ga.the fascinating thing is that this is a round bodied,trigger plate action gun.today if you wanted to buy the equivalent british gun from the same era,you would be looking at a Dickson or MacNaughton,scottish made, and these start at us$10,000 WITH MANY $20,000 PLUS. i acquired this for a few dollars more than i later paid for the book.also you may note that Baikal borrowed the opening lever design at a much later date for their single barrel rifle and shotguns.the gun weighs about 5lb.it comes up beautifully but like all lightweight shotguns it takes a bit of practise to keep the gun going on crossing shots.ammo is available,but shot choice is limited and expensive,about $300 a slab.i had to have the chambers eased as i think it was made for brass cases,and the fiocchi plastic ones wouldn't fit.my guess is the it was made to carry with the idea of potting something a rabbit,hare or maybe woodcock,snipe.low noise and easy to carry.i had the snap caps especially made.*i have become very fond of this gun.*


*
*
So have I :Wink: 
KH

----------


## Sideshow

Not seen to many of those! Every now and then some come through Holts but not ver often.
Id have it just becasue its different :Thumbsup:

----------


## MAJOR F

[few of the more unusal ones ive found in my travels

----------


## MAJOR F

[ATTACH=

----------


## MAJOR F



----------


## MAJOR F



----------


## lophortyx

nice shotguns Major F. the under/over i recognise as a Verney Carron, a fantastic game gun from france.the three sxs i will have a think about before i guess that one.i see you love good wood on a gun.

----------


## Hendrik470

I recognise the 1st gun - was that you bidding against me ?

----------


## ONYVA

there is something about side plates and engraving that really does it for me. :Thumbsup:

----------


## lophortyx

the first gun with the detachable sidelocks, i think is spanish,my guess made by Gorosabel,the middle gun has got me stumped,has it been restocked,? it could be italian,although it has been made for the uk. market judging by the stock and engraving.the last gun,i think is spanish,possibly made by arrieta. it is hard to tell just from the photos.

----------


## Kiwi-Hunter

> *nice shotguns Major F.* the under/over i recognise as a Verney Carron, a fantastic game gun from france.the three sxs i will have a think about before i guess that one.i see you love good wood on a gun.


+1

----------


## MAJOR F

more pics of the no 2 gun

----------


## MAJOR F



----------


## lophortyx

a bernadelli roma sideplate??

----------


## MAJOR F

Yep roma 4e

----------


## lophortyx

so thats two out of four.what about the other two? they look like sable models although i'm not sure of the manufacturers.am i wide of the mark?

----------


## MAJOR F

1st one is a ARMAS EGO [F ARIZAGA ] its a nice gun, disc set strikers ,rolled trigger guard ,articulated front trigger the inside of the locks are well polished with no tool marks to be seen i think it would have been a top gun for this maker in its day......The last one is a UGARTECHEA  1000 ROUND BODY was one of there top guns selling at 9750.00 us ,its a shame that they have gone out of bussines this year

----------


## johnd

Glad you put up some pics of ya old shitters Major.  :Wink:

----------


## lophortyx

for those of you that own Ugartechea shotguns,this firm ceased production and closed shop in september 2016. labour issues and a weak economy were given as the reasons.a sad day for the spanish gun industry.i own a high grade boxlock sxs,which i don't shoot much as i am spoilt for choice.Ignacio Ugartechea made some outstanding guns,even the plain field guns were great value for the money. to my knowledge 'Uggies" were never imported by a distributor here in NZ. so they are few in number, as each gun has been individually imported.

----------

