# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  Tips for beginners in trap and skeet

## schwen

I've only been using a shotgun for the last year or so (despite having been a rifle shooter/hunter for the last 35 years), and I've decided to give skeet and trap a go (after attending a couple of sports clay events).

I'm using a semi-auto (I know, it's a clumsy substitute for a UO) but I really want to get better with it for the benefit of field hunting, and I really like the fit, feel and balance of it. I've got two of the same gun - M2 Benelli.

So I started DTL with CL choke (because I'd been led to believe you shoot clays with a CL) and of the 100 birds, got 10, 8, 2 and 10.

Someone suggested that because it's a straight shooting gun, to put lead on the rising birds, I'm covering the birds with the barrel. I shimmed one to shoot a little higher, and changed to a M choke, and on the second outing, improved to 20, 22, 23 & 23.

My question(s): As a newbie, what else don't I know?
How much rib should I see (I saw the 50c trick in another post, so will try that).
Is M the best "all round" choke for DTL with a semi? Most of my hits on the second outing were first shots. I got a few seconds and obviously missed some too.
What's the best choke for skeet?
I'm presuming the "shooting high" adjustment I made for DTL isn't necessary for skeet. True?
How much lead do you need for the skeet birds given they're quite close, but quite fast?

Any other useful tips?

Any and all advice gratefully accepted.

PS, biggest downside for me using a semi, is that everyone else expects me to pick up all the spent casings, including those that spit out the back of their UOs when they don't catch them. LOL.

----------


## Woody

The good improvement in score by changing to tighter mod choke should tell you something. With scores of 23/25 your sight picture and gun fit are probably fine. 
There are heaps of vids on clay shooting on youtube.

----------


## GWH

My father used to be a competitive skeet shooter back when i was a kid, he's 80 now, but back in the day was right up there with the very best in the country, but was always limited by funds at the time bringing up two kids on one wage, paying the mortgage, particularly in the era of 21% interest.  He obviously got me into it and I shot for a Boys high school team for a couple of years.

Anyway I digress, one of the things I always remember (aside from the gun fitment and actually shooting ability) was him talking about the mental game of skeet shooting. The ability to have control over emotion, if you missed a target, you're ability to forget about it completely, not dwell on it, as if you dwell on it and get yourself all worked up still thinking about the miss, it will affect the rest of your round.

This was huge, and if you were able to control this emotion, it made a huge difference. Sometimes easier said than done.

----------


## Marty Henry

As above but with some extras.
For dtl choose either a imp mod or full choke that's 3/4 or full in old money. Reason your 15 m behind the trap and by the time you have clocked the target it's travelled another 15 to 20 metres so it's 35 plus metres away when you pull the trigger a bit too far for cylinder.
Also it's probably still rising so you are most likely shooting behind especially with a field gun.
Pattern it. Shoot at a patterning board at 15 to 20 metres. Aim normally at the centre spot and look at your shot distribution you want it to be 2/3 to 3/4 above your aim point that way the clay will rise into the shot pattern.
A field gun with solid cheek weld will probably pattern 50/50 to raise the pattern raise your cheek slightly on the stock and reshoot you will find the spot within a few rounds. Once you have it a small bit of tape can be used as a guide placed somewhere on the forend where if your heads too low it isn't visible.
Another way of assessing the sight picture is to hold your first finger on the top of the reciever about 8 inches on front of your face with the gun shouldered and if you can see the front bead then that's about right.
Sheets a different beast and cylinder is the right choke for that, but start with this and see how it helps.

----------


## sore head stoat

My 2c.

DTL.
Buy a proper DTL trap gun, they are DTL trap guns for a reason, you will struggle to shoot consistent perfect scores with a field gun.

Skeet and DTL.
Get lessons from a recognised coach.

----------


## Ground Control

Find someone at the club who is a good competitive shot and wins competitions .
Ask them to show you how to set up from each position ( feet and where to hold the gun etc ) , don’t overload yourself with every aspect of the sport which is the problem every new shooter encounters .
Keep it simple and work on the base fundamentals - feet & hold point .
George Digweed who is probably the greatest living Shotgun shooter says that most targets are missed by two feet , not two feet out at the target but the two feet your standing on . If your not set up properly you are hindering yourself even before you call pull .
As you get better add new things to try but only after each step is ingrained.
Ask for help from knowledgeable people that have proven results, the problem with many clubs is that the most helpful people are often not very good shots . Even if the top shot won’t help you , watch what they do you can learn alot from watching the shooter not the clay .

----------


## 7mmwsm

If your main purpose of trap shooting is to improve your field shooting skills, I would suggest shooting gun down.

----------


## chindit

Youtube. Clay coach online (free on youtube) Takes you through all stations in the skeet field. Shotcam (again youtube) shows you skeet station 1, 2 , 4, 6, 7.  Just search skeet and I think it comes up. All clays you work on hold point, pick up point, and break point. The shooting channel, and anything with Ben Husthwaite all produce good informative clips.  Skeet you have it all. incomers , aways, 3/4 and crosses. 
I am also new to clay busting Christmas) I find it addictive, frustrating, fun and frustrating. Just got a u/o and haven't shot it yet. Club closed until next month and too wet at home.

----------


## schwen

I hear what you're saying, and I probably will in time, but the reason I wanted to shoot clays in the first place was to get good with a field gun, and so I'll persevere for now with the Benellis.

----------


## schwen

> If your main purpose of trap shooting is to improve your field shooting skills, I would suggest shooting gun down.


You're right, it is. And I will progress to that once I satisfy myself I can consistently smash clays. I'm not really happy with the way they break for me, and I suspect I'm clipping them with the shot stream rather than pulverising them as some other shooters do.

----------


## sore head stoat

> You're right, it is. And I will progress to that once I satisfy myself I can consistently smash clays. I'm not really happy with the way they break for me, and I suspect I'm clipping them with the shot stream rather than pulverising them as some other shooters do.


You maybe able to take note of what your target does after it has been hit, if it stops dead you have probably shot it in the front of it, if it takes off probably behind.. but get a coach.

What Ground Control says about where you are standing [feet position] is of massive importance esp in skeet shooting. Think where you are going to shoot the target, place your feet to that position, then coil your body back to the tower, your target will come out of, you will feel your self getting a bit "uncoiled"  and that should enable you to either keep a lead on the target [sustained lead] or enable you to push thru the target. Imagine if you have stood comfortably looking  at the trap house where the target is coming out of... the target comes out you will now be getting coiled up to where you are going to shoot the target... making it harder to get in front of the target..

----------


## Peteforskeet

Sorry to say you can't shoot dtl with the gun off the shoulder, it's against the rules,
I should add that's if you are shooting on a nzcta registered club grounds, if it's an informal shoot on private ground of course you can do what you like.
As far as skeet goes calling for the target with the gun of the shoulder is fine.

----------


## chindit

DLT Try this see if it works for you, advise I was given,
Your hold point is  just above the trap house 5 different positions depending which station. Mount the gun on the hold point and focus way beyond the trap house and call for the bird. I was told if you are focusing into the distance your eyes are quicker to focus from far to near than they are going from near to far as if from trap house to flying clay. Seems to work for me but I could be talking complete shit. PULL BANG BANG miss.

----------


## Peteforskeet

> You maybe able to take note of what your target does after it has been hit, if it stops dead you have probably shot it in the front of it, if it takes off probably behind.. but get a coach.
> 
> What Ground Control says about where you are standing [feet position] is of massive importance esp in skeet shooting. Think where you are going to shoot the target, place your feet to that position, then coil your body back to the tower, your target will come out of, you will feel your self getting a bit "uncoiled"  and that should enable you to either keep a lead on the target [sustained lead] or enable you to push thru the target. Imagine if you have stood comfortably looking  at the trap house where the target is coming out of... the target comes out you will now be getting coiled up to where you are going to shoot the target... making it harder to get in front of the target..


Foot position for a right hand shooter is easy, walk on the station and point your belly button  at the low house, this is for stations 2,3,4,5,6.
Stations 1,7,8 are self explanatory. 
Hold point for those stations is 1/3 rd from  the house to the crossing point,approx 7 yards.
Most new shooters take around 6 months of shooting most weekends to start shooting consistently  in the 20's,
I've been shooting skeet for 50 yrs, have seen a lot come and go.

----------


## schwen

> Foot position for a right hand shooter is easy, walk on the station and point your belly button  at the low house, this is for stations 2,3,4,5,6.
> Stations 1,7,8 are self explanatory. 
> Hold point for those stations is 1/3 rd from  the house to the crossing point,approx 7 yards.
> Most new shooters take around 6 months of shooting most weekends to start shooting consistently  in the 20's,
> I've been shooting skeet for 50 yrs, have seen a lot come and go.


I take your point about needing 6 months of regular shooting. I've shot skeet once, and found it both exhilarating and a bit baffling. One guy on my squad got a second crack at one of his missed birds, but I didn't follow why. I'm sure the sequence of birds on each station will become familiar in time. I think I'll improve on my 17/25 with a bit more practice, which is why I'm planning to travel to several different clubs around the region to shoot most weekends,

----------


## schwen

> DLT Try this see if it works for you, advise I was given,
> Your hold point is  just above the trap house 5 different positions depending which station. Mount the gun on the hold point and focus way beyond the trap house and call for the bird. I was told if you are focusing into the distance your eyes are quicker to focus from far to near than they are going from near to far as if from trap house to flying clay. Seems to work for me but I could be talking complete shit. PULL BANG BANG miss.


Thanks, I saw this on one of the YT vids I watched last night, so keen to give it a try.

----------


## Peteforskeet

> I take your point about needing 6 months of regular shooting. I've shot skeet once, and found it both exhilarating and a bit baffling. One guy on my squad got a second crack at one of his missed birds, but I didn't follow why. I'm sure the sequence of birds on each station will become familiar in time. I think I'll improve on my 17/25 with a bit more practice, which is why I'm planning to travel to several different clubs around the region to shoot most weekends,


If you add up all the targets you shoot on all the stations it adds up to 24, the game of skeet was devised around a pkt of shells, ie 25.
Therefore you repeat as a single tgt your first miss,and that result is scored on the scoresheet as your 25 tgt, 
If you get to station 8 without missing you will shoot a second low 8 tgt, and that makes up the 25 tgts needed.
Hope this makes sense

----------


## Ground Control

> If you add up all the targets you shoot on all the stations it adds up to 24, the game of skeet was devised around a pkt of shells, ie 25.
> Therefore you repeat as a single tgt your first miss,and that result is scored on the scoresheet as your 25 tgt, 
> If you get to station 8 without missing you will shoot a second low 8 tgt, and that makes up the 25 tgts needed.
> Hope this makes sense


That feeling of seeing that second low house station 8 target turn to dust when I did it for the first time will remain with me forever.

----------


## chindit

> I take your point about needing 6 months of regular shooting. I've shot skeet once, and found it both exhilarating and a bit baffling. One guy on my squad got a second crack at one of his missed birds, but I didn't follow why. I'm sure the sequence of birds on each station will become familiar in time. I think I'll improve on my 17/25 with a bit more practice, which is why I'm planning to travel to several different clubs around the region to shoot most weekends,


I was so lucky that I was shown/coached by a ex national and Aussie champ around the skeet field a few times so all that was explained. Only downside was he made it look so easy I thought that everybody who shot skeet blasted at least 23 clays. It wasn't until I watched the lesser guys, still good shots that I realized that some do miss. I really appreciated the time that Tony Truss gave and still gives me. Peteforskeet must know Tony Truss been around about 40 years.

----------


## Savage1

One of the best bits advice I ever got for DTL, shoot your first shoot as soon as you can, don't dwell.

----------


## Micky Duck

give it arseholes...get mad at the bird and get stuck in,dont overthink it...and enjoy it.

----------


## Peteforskeet

> I was so lucky that I was shown/coached by a ex national and Aussie champ around the skeet field a few times so all that was explained. Only downside was he made it look so easy I thought that everybody who shot skeet blasted at least 23 clays. It wasn't until I watched the lesser guys, still good shots that I realized that some do miss. I really appreciated the time that Tony Truss gave and still gives me. Peteforskeet must know Tony Truss been around about 40 years.


Yes I know Tony,  he's had a great career, 
As for shooting dtl targets as quick as you can, that's OK within reason,missing quick dosnt get you any extra points.
As for skeet targets all out goers should all be brokern before the middle station.

----------


## country cuts

Just my opinion the 2 biggest factors in shooting Clay's is gun fit and feet position. You can use one gun to do it all will just need to change chokes. Skeet run a cylinder and dtl mod/half or improved mod/3/4. If wanting to shoot better in the field try 5 stand or sporting Clay's. Most important is to have fun and don't forget 2 eyes open and breath and relax and swing through your target

----------


## Seventy Six

Pattern your gun against some targets, that will tell you how much rib you need to see.
  I try to set mine up so 70% of the shot pattern is above the bead and 30% below. Just my preference.
Decent lessons are great if you a keen enough,  theres a lot of BS that gets parroted about shotgunning that really isnt helpful for beginners.

----------


## jakewire

What an excellent helpful thread this has been, thanks to all who have participated.
Carry on. :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## schwen

> Just my opinion the 2 biggest factors in shooting Clay's is gun fit and feet position. You can use one gun to do it all will just need to change chokes. Skeet run a cylinder and dtl mod/half or improved mod/3/4. If wanting to shoot better in the field try 5 stand or sporting Clay's. Most important is to have fun and don't forget 2 eyes open and breath and relax and swing through your target


The guns seem to fit really nicely, and being nice and light, I can swing them pretty quick, especially for the extreme right hander on stand 5. Feet position, I'm working on. I'm currently standing comfortably, but with no rhyme nor reason for position. I've looked at other shooters feet position, but haven't seen any pattern to follow. 

Having fun is not a problem. I love it. I tried ball trap at the Dargaville club for the first time on the weekend, and tried tightening the choke from 1/2 to 3/4. Got 22/25 and 20/25. 

I started on sporting clays and that's what got me hooked. Unfortunately, Kaeo is the only Northland club that offers them on a regular basis but it's a bit of a hike from Paparoa.

This coming weekend I'd love to get down to Waitemata and have a crack at their 100t skeet.

----------


## Sideshow

> If your main purpose of trap shooting is to improve your field shooting skills, I would suggest shooting gun down.


Used to do this as I thought it as above. But now have changed my mind. For me its all about that sight picture. You might be good at say loopers. Thats because you know the sight picture and where to shoot. Until you get that sight picture Id shoot gun up. Less movement means better consistency. 
When your in the field you will have plenty of time to play with gun down.

----------


## country cuts

> The guns seem to fit really nicely, and being nice and light, I can swing them pretty quick, especially for the extreme right hander on stand 5. Feet position, I'm working on. I'm currently standing comfortably, but with no rhyme nor reason for position. I've looked at other shooters feet position, but haven't seen any pattern to follow. 
> 
> Having fun is not a problem. I love it. I tried ball trap at the Dargaville club for the first time on the weekend, and tried tightening the choke from 1/2 to 3/4. Got 22/25 and 20/25. 
> 
> I started on sporting clays and that's what got me hooked. Unfortunately, Kaeo is the only Northland club that offers them on a regular basis but it's a bit of a hike from Paparoa.
> 
> This coming weekend I'd love to get down to Waitemata and have a crack at their 100t skeet.


That's not a bad effort on ball trap. Main one with body position is feet shoulder width apart and a little bend and weight on the front leg this helps with recoil. Talk to some of the guys up there everyone has a different way of standing and starting point or hold on the trap find one you like and stick with it if you chop and change to much it can get frustrating

----------


## Woody

As a rough rule of thumb; point your leading foot at where you expect to break the target and refine from there. Also if you are a right handed shooter you will find you can swing / pivot further to the left than to the right so adjust your feet accordingly. If you run out of pivot you will shoot low.

----------


## schwen

Lessons from the weekend at Waitemata:

You can use 9 1/2 shot for skeet rather than the 7 1/2 loads used for DTL. That's the benefit of a larger club I guess, they offer a larger range of ammunition for sale to their members.

The Universal Trench seems like a really good way to burn money out the barrel of a shotgun. Not recommended as a beginners discipline.

----------


## TeRei

> Find someone at the club who is a good competitive shot and wins competitions .
> Ask them to show you how to set up from each position ( feet and where to hold the gun etc ) , dont overload yourself with every aspect of the sport which is the problem every new shooter encounters .
> Keep it simple and work on the base fundamentals - feet & hold point .
> George Digweed who is probably the greatest living Shotgun shooter says that most targets are missed by two feet , not two feet out at the target but the two feet your standing on . If your not set up properly you are hindering yourself even before you call pull .
> As you get better add new things to try but only after each step is ingrained.
> Ask for help from knowledgeable people that have proven results, the problem with many clubs is that the most helpful people are often not very good shots . Even if the top shot wont help you , watch what they do you can learn alot from watching the shooter not the clay .


Sorta like the old adage ...miss in front.

----------


## TeRei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j7V6qK4NPs

Best advice ever seen.

----------


## JackoMt6

> I take your point about needing 6 months of regular shooting. I've shot skeet once, and found it both exhilarating and a bit baffling. One guy on my squad got a second crack at one of his missed birds, but I didn't follow why. I'm sure the sequence of birds on each station will become familiar in time. I think I'll improve on my 17/25 with a bit more practice, which is why I'm planning to travel to several different clubs around the region to shoot most weekends,


In skeet you repeat your 1st miss. Thats why he got a 2nd crack its your repeat or 25th target.

----------


## schwen

> My 2c.
> 
> DTL.
> Buy a proper DTL trap gun, they are DTL trap guns for a reason, you will struggle to shoot consistent perfect scores with a field gun.
> 
> Skeet and DTL.
> Get lessons from a recognised coach.


I've found a skeet coach willing to help improve my shooting. He's a local farmer with his own skeet and trap fields and has won overseas skeet events. Only 15 mins from my place so looking forward to improving over the coming weeks. We initially worked on feet position, posture, balance and singles from stations 1 & 7. Excitement plus!

----------


## Peteforskeet

Are his initials R W?

----------


## chindit

go to youtube and search oposumss1. Watch the spelling but it comes up with several films. look for one with 1 hour 44mins and its Tod Benders winning with the fundamentals of skeet. This is a sunrise productions DVD that I was considering purchasing but at $70 US I was thinking is it worth it. Then bugger me sideways this Russian oposumss1 pops up on you tube, and there it is. Bloody good info covering every station, feet, hold points, where to look. Cant wait to try what I picked up especially the turning using the leg, as before I turned at the waist which he talks about at the beginning.

----------


## schwen

> Are his initials R W?


Yes

----------


## schwen

> My 2c.
> 
> DTL.
> Buy a proper DTL trap gun, they are DTL trap guns for a reason, you will struggle to shoot consistent perfect scores with a field gun.


https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....ml#post1367831

----------


## schwen

First time I've scored 25 in a skeet comp today. Pretty happy with that. Might've got HOA too, but choked in the shoot off. Too much adrenaline for a C grader shooting off against A grader. Next time.

----------


## WallyR

@schwen

Hey Grant
Try Marua Sporting Clays Club near Maungturoto.
They shoot steel only - like Kaeo.
Sell cartridges - $115/slab. Falcon or Gamebore IIRC.
Cheers Wal

----------


## WallyR

@schwen
Saw that in the latest Gunshot mate.
Well done.

Watched some skeet being shot before Christmas.
Might have a go next time they have it at the club.

----------


## Marty Henry

My last skeet shoot was a tad disappointing, 15/25, then I realized I had 3/4 and full chokes in and cheered up a bit.

----------


## Baz036

> My last skeet shoot was a tad disappointing, 15/25, then I realized I had 3/4 and full chokes in and cheered up a bit.


Grew up with a father that was in a National skeet squad and this was often a training tool used. Get the accuracy up with tight chokes and open up when in  competition. The lucky breaks from a  couple of pellets make all the difference once the smaller pattern has improved accuracy

----------


## schwen

> @schwen
> 
> Hey Grant
> Try Marua Sporting Clays Club near Maungturoto.
> They shoot steel only - like Kaeo.
> Sell cartridges - $115/slab. Falcon or Gamebore IIRC.
> Cheers Wal


Hi @WallyR, I do shoot there from time to time. However, I think their next shoot clashes with Whangarei's skeet trophy shoot.

----------


## schwen

> @schwen
> Saw that in the latest Gunshot mate.
> Well done.
> 
> Watched some skeet being shot before Christmas.
> Might have a go next time they have it at the club.


 @WallyR

Nah, that was the Northland Provincials in Gunshot.
My first 25 was at Kaikohe on the weekend.
Skeet comp at Whangarei March 5 I think. Check out the latest club schedule in the new yellow booklet.

----------

