# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  kids rifles

## Alpinehunter0

OK so I've had a nosey back a bit on the forum, and have read about the rascal by savage and the Marlin xt22 ......I was wondering if anyone knows of any other small person rifles ....I see the yanks do a heap of different types.... Crickett from keystone arms,  Browning do the micro hunter,  kimber do one plus a heap of others.... I have a five year old girl and a seven year old son.... The wee girl is showing an interest in hunting so I want to nurture it....unfortunately none of my 22s would be suitable and so we are looking for a youth sized one... I think the boy will have a go too once we get going... So does anyone know of any other youth sized 22s available in NZ for a reasonable price... Don't want to cut down a full-size rifle as I feel it needs to be proportionate

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## Moutere

Go the rascal and then then the CZ Scout or Marlin after that.

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## Tommy

Thompson centre Hot Shot.

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## veitnamcam

The Rascal is truly a scaled down rifle, the others I am not sure you will have to do your own research.

The big thing with kids(small kids under 10 etc) im my experience is they cannot hold the grip area properly and reach the trigger.

The Rascal I have is scoped and it will hit a 80mm square gong pretty consistently at 100m with shit bulk ammo with myself on  the trigger.

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## grunzter

My 8 yo can do a 4" group at 100m on a bipod with his CZ scout.
most of the rounds group better than that, but a few stray here and there...  :Have A Nice Day: 
He is nearly 9 now, and started with it when he was 7...

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## Hendrik470

+1 for the Cz scout, my 8yrd old loves his.

http://youtu.be/mVciuhn_cC4

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## GWH

I recently picked up a Marlin XT22 Youth rifle 2nd hand off Trademe, specially designed stock for the little people, LOP, smaller pistol grip area, shorter length from pistol grip to trigger, higher comb, as distance from kids cheek to eye is shorter than adults, they have really thought about it.

Havnt scoped this one yet, but it has built in dovetail and also tapped for bases etc. I shot it down the river the other day with the open sights, only at 25 yards, but very impressed. I reckon it will be awesome accurate with a scope.

When kids get bigger you can fit the full sized XT22 stock ;-)

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## Alpinehunter0

Been mooching around and see that reloaders supplies have the crickett rifle listed at a price of 359 
.....

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## res

The Thompson is very small and light, so small in the grip area that it's hard for me to shoot. 
I like that it breaks open like  shotgun so it's very obvious when it's safe. 

Only downside is that it didn't teach how to operate a bolt, something I hadn't thought of until it was brought up in a thread a week or two ago-but to be honest with the stock spacers that come with it I feel that by the time they upgrade they will be old enough that learning how to use a bolt/semi will be the task of one range trip

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## timattalon

Dare I say it but Ruger does a bolt action with an insert to alter length of pull that may be an option. 

And personally I dont think scaling will be much use with the likes of a 22 and small hands. Realistically 22LR actions are scaled down when compared to centre fire. If you modify a stock for small hands and shorten the barrel for weight reduction, a normal action 22 is fine. Nothing wrong with reducing a Norinco JW15 down to kid sizes. And the upside is if you buy an old stock for a rifle you can retro fit the original stocl later to make it bigger as they grow. This has the advantage of already being a rifle they are familiar with but that grows with them.

Sure spend hard earned on a youth rifle if you want. It is your money and you are more than welcome to support any business this way. It is just not what I would do if in the same position.

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## northdude

the problem with the full sized rifles is not the lop but altering it so the grip and trigger are closer together so little fingers can reach the trigger properly that could turn into disaster if you don't have the skills to chop and rejoin the stock

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## GWH

> Dare I say it but Ruger does a bolt action with an insert to alter length of pull that may be an option. 
> 
> And personally I dont think scaling will be much use with the likes of a 22 and small hands. Realistically 22LR actions are scaled down when compared to centre fire. If you modify a stock for small hands and shorten the barrel for weight reduction, a normal action 22 is fine. Nothing wrong with reducing a Norinco JW15 down to kid sizes. And the upside is if you buy an old stock for a rifle you can retro fit the original stocl later to make it bigger as they grow. This has the advantage of already being a rifle they are familiar with but that grows with them.
> 
> Sure spend hard earned on a youth rifle if you want. It is your money and you are more than welcome to support any business this way. It is just not what I would do if in the same position.


There is no way my 4 yr old can hold the pistol grip and reach the trigger, not a shit show in hell (therefore doesnt want to do it) but with the Marlin youth she can. If you can't spend $300 (mine was $292 2nd hand) on ya kids for something that will help them join in with our own interests then i reckon there's something wrong (compared to what we spend on gear and hunting trips etc for ourselves). 300 bucks doesn't buy much today.

And when they are finished with it, chances are you will get most/if not all ya money back when you sell it.

I know this will probably come across the wrong way, but that's the way i see it.

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## ChrisF

I would go the route of either a CZ scout or a Norinco both using a good suppressor , and cut the stock down and get another stock for when he gets bigger , and although not perfect , it dose mean he will always have that 1st rifle , from being a kid to adult , and I think thats neat in its self .
To me when they are really small , its more about learning the safety aspects & general gun handling skills when they are very small , and not so much markmanship , I would however put a bipod on the front for him , just one less thing to worry about , ie supporting the front end of the rifle etc .
I have cut down a cheap toz17 in LOP for my misses , but my boy when he was 3 used it , and not perfect but he has shot it , and now he is almost 5yrs I will put a bipod on it and get him back ob the gun again .
Keep the range time short & interesting , donot want him getting bored with it , or it being a chore .

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## ChrisF

Just to say their are some awesome Dads here on the forum , and I for one would have loved for my old man to have taken me shooting and brought me a CZ bolt gun when I was a boy , but he was too busy & not interested that much in shooting .

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## Tommy

> The Thompson is very small and light, so small in the grip area that it's hard for me to shoot. 
> I like that it breaks open like  shotgun so it's very obvious when it's safe. 
> 
> Only downside is that it didn't teach how to operate a bolt, something I hadn't thought of until it was brought up in a thread a week or two ago-but to be honest with the stock spacers that come with it I feel that by the time they upgrade they will be old enough that learning how to use a bolt/semi will be the task of one range trip


The only problem I know of with these appears to be that the hammer spurs can snap off. Have seen two new in a shop on display, both missing their spurs.. Wouldn't be too hard to braze them back on though. No way small thumbs would be able to cock them with the spur gone like that either, there's only a little stump left.  Worth being careful I guess.

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## res

Good to know @Tommy 

I'll keep a eye out for any cracks appearing

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## Shooter

> Been mooching around and see that reloaders supplies have the crickett rifle listed at a price of 359 
> .....


Thats a good price for new.  I paid $349 for the Rascal I purchased on Monday.  I would go for a Rascal if I was to do it again too.

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## Shooter

My 7 year old was using my Marlin XT until I purchased the Rascal, although only with a bipod and with the butt through his arm pit.  With the Rascal he can now shoot from the standing, kneeling and hold the rifle without the use of a bipod on the ground.  The closest rifle to the Rascal would be the Cricket but that has a bolt that requires an extra step to cock the bolt and no ramp to assist with loading.  

Any thing realistically can be used but as others have said whats $300+ on a tool that should set them up for success later on down the track.  Check out my photos of my 7,5 and 2 year old in the prone position with the Rascal in the "Savage Rascal" thread.  Should help with comparisons as your kids are 7 and 5?

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## Shooter

Keeping it interesting is in my opinion key especially when it comes to targetry... Here are a few we used the other day + a metal spinner set-up.

The cut out of the peep sight and fore sight (to the right of targets) is to get my kids to show me what they are aiming at and to help me explain points of aim etc...

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## Moutere

Water balloons are great, my boy loves it.
We also have a set of steel plates, any reactive target gives them instant feedback and gratification.
I plan on picking up one of these too.

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## stumpy

my girls are 6 1/2 months old , I reackon its about time I start looking for a shooter for them ...... I can try it out for them until they can walk at least

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## timattalon

> There is no way my 4 yr old can hold the pistol grip and reach the trigger, not a shit show in hell (therefore doesnt want to do it) but with the Marlin youth she can. If you can't spend $300 (mine was $292 2nd hand) on ya kids for something that will help them join in with our own interests then i reckon there's something wrong (compared to what we spend on gear and hunting trips etc for ourselves). 300 bucks doesn't buy much today.
> 
> And when they are finished with it, chances are you will get most/if not all ya money back when you sell it.
> 
> I know this will probably come across the wrong way, but that's the way i see it.


I see what you mean now regarding the stock scaling rather than the action. (Not taken the wrong way). For smaller hands like that reshaping a stock would take as much work that would probably justify buying a youth rifle. And you are quite right in that they seem to hold their value pretty well too. Good thing as their hands do not stay that size for long............

Also a very good point on introducing them young. It is a great way so spend time with young ones....

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## veitnamcam

As for the steel walking target has anyone used one?
I think it would be a piece of piss to make a couple but am concerned about ricochet especially at 25-50 y?

I am thinking of making a few thin steel plates with a spike that will definitely hole(no ricochet) but fall over and ring a bit as a reactive target.

Would be semi disposable but quicker easier more compact and reusable than bottles of water. 

Maybe 1.2 zintec or something, would have to test penetration of course but if it wont go threw I will just use alloy.

Thoughts on this and any other ideas for reactive targets for kids?

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## chrome

I made loads of those walkers.   They are pretty good fun.  
Here is one of mine if anyone is interested


Sent from the swamp

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## Moutere

Clay targets are awesome.

We have one like this and use it +50m with no dramas, it's been $50 odd dollars well spent.



Some guy holed it twice with his 223 @ 50m for some reason, but is still quite functional.
Not having to reset the target is a big thing for me.

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## Moutere

> I made loads of those walkers.   They are pretty good fun.  
> Here is one of mine if anyone is interestedAttachment 39843
> 
> 
> Sent from the swamp


I'm keen as.

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## Alpinehunter0

Thanks shooter and all of the rest of you for your replies.....still looking and thinking about it......thanks for the heads up re the crickett never realized that you have to cock the bolt..... Although this is possibly a good safety..... I amwwilling to spend 300+ to get my kid's interested and after all I imagine they hold their value well.... Still looking at possibly the Marlin xt22 youth but not 100% aa it is slightly bigger than the rascal and crickett as far as I can see.....the advantage is it comes with a full size stock too

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## Alpinehunter0

Anyone around Oamaru with a youth rifle we could look at or even have a go with?

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## veitnamcam

> Clay targets are awesome.
> 
> We have one like this and use it +50m with no dramas, it's been $50 odd dollars well spent.
> 
> Attachment 39842
> 
> Some guy holed it twice with his 223 @ 50m for some reason, but is still quite functional.
> Not having to reset the target is a big thing for me.


Link us up ! :Cool:

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## veitnamcam

> I made loads of those walkers.   They are pretty good fun.  
> Here is one of mine if anyone is interestedAttachment 39843
> 
> 
> Sent from the swamp


How have you found the ricochet situation with these?

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## Moutere

> Link us up !


I bought it from the Richmond sports shop pre hunting and fishing.

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## chrome

Good question.   I have never heard a ricochet and the bullet splash as it hits is quite obvious to see. In the paint.    I'm sure it can and does riccochet but like I said.   It's never been obvious


Sent from the swamp

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## veitnamcam

> I bought it from the Richmond sports shop pre hunting and fishing.


I Know where to go then.  :Thumbsup:

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## Alpinehunter0

So I ordered a savage rascal yesterday.... Should be here around Tuesday,...... Wee dot can hardly contain herself..... Gonna get a scope for it too and when she's mastered the peep sights I'll probably stick it on...or should I just stick it on and be done with? Ur thoughts please

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## Alpinehunter0

So I ordered a savage rascal yesterday.... Should be here around Tuesday,...... Wee dot can hardly contain herself..... Gonna get a scope for it too and when she's mastered the peep sights I'll probably stick it on...or should I just stick it on and be done with? Ur thoughts please
...Hope she likes the pink stock or I may be shopping for gun skins

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## rambo-6mmrem

Buy a $50 single shot on trade me cut the stock shorter and paint it a flash color of your choice all done for $70

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## northdude

Its the grip to trigger area that needs shortening for little hands I put the scope on mine as the rear sight kept coming loose

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## Alpinehunter0

Thought about it rambo-6mmrem, but like northdude said it's really the pistol grip area that's oversized for little paws.....plus when I come to sell it once she's big enough to move to adult size rifle I will still get my money back...

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## northdude

Also you need to use the savage bases unless your a machinest and can make it work it think the bolt fouls on something from memory (bad)

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## Alpinehunter0

Thanks northdude..... They said something about ordering rings or bases when they were on phone ordering it, never took much notice..... Had a Mauser 96 once that had been sporterised, that had a bolt handle that had been reversed..... Whoever did had not tempered the weld and I had an interesting experience in the bush....two days in and the bolt handle falls off.....very scary since there was a round up spout at time....and pissing off too....got it reattached by gunsmith and never had any more issues..... No I'm not a machinest so that is out....I did consider the chopping a rifle down to suit her and probably could have played with the pistol grip myself being a joiner but was a little concerned as to how strong it would be if I were to chop it about..... I'd rather just pay the coin and buy one that's designed for little paws

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## northdude

No worries I've also got a sported m96 that's my main rifle had it since I was 13 on my second barrel its just the bases you need then any rings will do and u just put a cheap as tasco 4x32 on it we bought a box of CCI blazer ammo to use in it had a lot of ftf with it my girl is still getting use to it we are shooting at about 25m at the moment we've got to the stage where we have got all the shots on a4 and working on getting them to reduce that's shooting in a sitting position without a rest which is very good I think I can't do much better the thing also with the rascal is it should be worth good money still when it comes time to sell it probably worth more than a chopped up shitter

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## Moutere

Does anyone have experience fitting a wee holographic sight to a kids rifle, something along the lines of a Burris FastFire?

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## Boaraxa

> So I ordered a savage rascal yesterday.... Should be here around Tuesday,...... Wee dot can hardly contain herself..... Gonna get a scope for it too and when she's mastered the peep sights I'll probably stick it on...or should I just stick it on and be done with? Ur thoughts please
> ...Hope she likes the pink stock or I may be shopping for gun skins


Its always good to learn to shoot with the bare basics Stick with the open sights first then if the enthusiasm starts to wane put the scope on

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## rambo-6mmrem

yep always good to lern the basics of open site shooting id get the scope but use it as a reward set a goal like shooting a milk bottle cap from 15 or 20m for example and once that goal is reached they get the scope as a reward it gives the kids something to work towards and keeps them intrested 
im not the best shot with opens but i can use them well enough to kill a goat or deer at 100m if the scope gets buggerd on a hunt  think its very importent to have basic open sight skills 
also use fun targets like balloons and steel spinners-(get one of those target trees) etc as kids get board with shooting paper these are great for kids great for dad to if set up at 100m or furter to test his skills
Outdoor Outfitters .22cal Swing Target  22lr or air rifles only i blew a hole throuh one at 200m with a 223

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## ZG47

> So I ordered a savage rascal yesterday.... Should be here around Tuesday,...... Wee dot can hardly contain herself..... Gonna get a scope for it too and when she's mastered the peep sights I'll probably stick it on...or should I just stick it on and be done with? Ur thoughts please
> ...Hope she likes the pink stock or I may be shopping for gun skins


Start with the peep sights. I started shooting with SLR, shot peeps with a smallbore club and bought a brand new .22 semi with a peep backsight, as my first rifle. I also ran a small rifle range complex for 14 years and everything that I have seen over thirty plus years of shooting, convinces me that peeps are the best way to start.

The oldest rifle in existence (made for the guy who invented the gunner's square, hence the expression 'shooting at point blank') is missing its front sight but still has the original peep backsight. They were the best option when the rifle was invented and they still are the best option for a new shooter.

And ... consider this. What message will you send to your your young lady, if you get her a brand new rifle, especially designed for little people ... and then start tossing bits away (or aside).  I suggest that you ignore the advice of those who do not know how to use peep sights (or train multiple new shooters in the art of riflemanship) and train her to use this very special present, as it comes in the box.

When she gets to the stage that she needs a scope for sporting kills at greater ranges and target shooting buy her one. Make sure that it is a good scope, i.e. something without a thick reticle to disguise poor optics; and mount it with some Sportsmatch ring mounts as opposed to the cheap and nasty Chinese imitations.

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## Alpinehunter0

Yeah my thoughts were to let her at least try the aperture/peep sights.... Then graduate to scope once she's competent with the peep, or if she struggles too much....... Want her to learn properly and with a touch of luck she'll do OK.... I learnt with open sights v and post on both a 22 and a 303.... Shot first Bambi with open sights and used to shoot bunnies on the run in the spotlight with v andpost

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## ZG47

By the way ... Are you going to get yourself a matching HiViz pink vest for your coaching / Range Officer duties?

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## Alpinehunter0

> By the way ... Are you going to get yourself a matching HiViz pink vest for your coaching / Range Officer duties?


ahhhhh that's a big fat negative ZG47 ..... She however already has the pink camo microfleece t shirt and long sleeve t......hard job getting them to the wash when they get grubby....... hoping the boy might show an interest once the girl gives it a crack..... time will tell but he seems more interested in playing minecraft on his tablet and building interesting creations with lego

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## ZG47

> ahhhhh that's a big fat negative ZG47 ..... She however already has the pink camo microfleece t shirt and long sleeve t......hard job getting them to the wash when they get grubby....... hoping the boy might show an interest once the girl gives it a crack..... time will tell but he seems more interested in playing minecraft on his tablet and building interesting creations with lego


Just remember, it is easier to teach a girl pretty much anything, 99% of the time; and ... they trash a lot less of your gear whilst learning the ropes. They are also, in my experience, more inclined to pay their way, i.e. pay for their own kit/consumables via holiday or after school jobs than boys, especially during the teenage horror story years.

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## Alpinehunter0

um yeah nah don't think so ZG47.........my 15 year old knows everyfuckingthing, maybe shes the exception but fuckin hell she does my head in on days ending in Y

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## northdude

.  I suggest that you ignore the advice of those who do not know how to use peep sights 

I know how to use peep sights use to use them in full bore target shooting in aussie on an omark a very long time ago and from experience from actually owning a rascal its a real piss off trying to teach a young inexperienced shooter with a poorly desighned peep that constantly comes loose and if your not carefull falls off

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## ZG47

> .  I suggest that you ignore the advice of those who do not know how to use peep sights 
> 
> I know how to use peep sights use to use them in full bore target shooting in aussie on an omark a very long time ago and from experience from actually owning a rascal its a real piss off trying to teach a young inexperienced shooter with a poorly desighned peep that constantly comes loose and if your not carefull falls off


northdude

Fair enough. I have had to use blue loctite (Nutlock) or equivalent product, on several items that theoretically should not have needed it.

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## Alpinehunter0

If it keeps coming loose then surely its a design fault or similar.... When you sell a product in this country it has to be fit for its intended purpose for a period of at least 3 months under the consumer guarantees act, so surely then if it's not staying tight and is becoming loose it not only is not fit for purpose but actually becomes quite dangerous in the context that you no longer can be sure where the rifle is shooting. It matters not if the product is new or secondhand. I think the seller is responsible for correcting the problem unless under manufacturers warranty. The only way around this is to sell "as is" .....pretty sure that is how it is.... Correct me if I'm wrong..... So if I have issues with the peep sights they will hear from me.... Lol

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## northdude

Its not a target rifle so I didn't expect target grade sights it vibrates loose from use as its designed to be tightend by fingers might star a shit fight here but my opinion on some of the American stuff is it will do the job but there's plenty of room for improvement and they seem more about selling accessories to make it how it should be in the first place

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## Alpinehunter0

Sorry only to in trade sellers

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## Alpinehunter0

Consumer rights, consumer law, business advice | Consumer Affairs click on consumer guarantees act....

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## Alpinehunter0

Must be fit for purpose .....if its coming loose then it's not fit for the purpose intended...

Perhaps a sprung washer may help... Dunno if you can fit one or not

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## northdude

Yea I know the CGA I got a rascall when they first came out they may have improved the rear sight now and I put a scope on it anyway so it didn't bother me I was just letting you know a possible problem to keep an eye on in case you take it for a walk and the sight drops off without you realising it  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Shooter

> Yea I know the CGA I got a rascall when they first came out they may have improved the rear sight now and I put a scope on it anyway so it didn't bother me I was just letting you know a possible problem to keep an eye on in case you take it for a walk and the sight drops off without you realising it


My kids and I have put through 250 rounds since sighting their Rascal in.  The sights have not moved at all, there is a small indent that can be lined up so you can see if they have moved at all.  Goes without saying that if you periodically check the alignment then you should not end up in a situation where your sights are loose causing an issue.  I am looking at putting a few more "lines" on the elevation so that I can have a correct zero for 25, 50 and 100, rater than applying aim off for the young fellas. 

Yes it the elevation knob is hand adjustable, but there is nothing stopping you cranking it up slightly with the help of a tool.

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## Alpinehunter0

Roll on Tuesday I say......then I'll have to do a bit of bore sighting with an itsy bitsy shooting stick

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## northdude

Don't forget to let the kids have a turn  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Alpinehunter0

Hmmmm shooter is absent.....tomorrow they reckon..... Crossed digits

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## Alpinehunter0

Omg its sooooo little

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## northdude

They are Ay

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## Alpinehunter0

Then you let the kids hold it and it doesn't look so bad

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