# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  The dinner plate challenge

## 2post

Ive been thinking, there are questions about how far is it ethical to shoot at animals, what caliber should I use for@gimp set up a shooting challenge that proves your rifle, this it a hunting challenge.
Most animals require one shot with a cold barrel and have about a 6 kill zone. So here it is, the dinner plate challenge. 
Before shoot you, can hit a dinner plate at your given range limit with one shot. You can choose your limit and post your plate. Mine is at 200m (last shot was over a year ago and was a kill on a deer) because that has been my range limit. I then fired a group at a target and found my point of aim needed moving left a little. 
Some rifles shoot tight groups but need a few fouling shots. Some shoot well clean but foul quickly. Others may start spreading when they warm up. Gongs hits can be guided in but dont count when you are hunting. I dont think it matters if you are hunting, as long as you know your rifle and can make a clean kill with one shot.
Please post your plate and distance and no prizes.

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## Gibo

I would be horrified if that was my result at 200m, no offence to you but personally thats not good enough for what i want

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## 2post

Yep I agree, it’s about what you do.
That was on a bipod with no back rest.
I shot this at a 1K after sighting it in on proper sand bags. The two shots on the left were after adjusting for wind.
But that was not hunting conditions.

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## PerazziSC3

> I would be horrified if that was my result at 200m, no offence to you but personally thats not good enough for what i want


Post it up @Gibo no sighters from when you last shot. You might be horrified

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## Puffin

So can I clarify please?  It is a plate diameter based on one's assessment of the kill-zone of the target species (6" say for deer), and the first cold bore shot only, and from a rifle assumed to have been left sighted-in but could have been sitting in the safe for an indefinite amount of time, with the bore condition left as per the usual practice,  and you choose the way the rifle is supported for the shot (bipod, over a pack, etc.) according to the way hunting shots are typically taken, and the shot is taken at the maximum range that would be attempted at game. Though not mentioned I'm guessing that if that maximum range was not also the zeroing range then you get just the one go at dialling on for the drop  in the same way that would be required in the field?   

I would say that 200 metres looks to be a well-chosen and perhaps slightly conservative maximum distance for what you use that rifle for.  :Have A Nice Day: 

It would be interesting to see the "dinner plates" from some of the folk who go out with the expectation of taking shots at 500-600 metres.

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## dannyb

Anyone got a 500y range ? 
I regularly shoot deer from 300-500y I'm always pretty picky about shot placement happy to let them walk if they don't present a good shot or I can't get a solid comfortable shooting position. At 400-500y plenty of time to safely set up for shot, range, dial etc. I tend not to shoot at spooked animals I find them too unpredictable. That's just me  :Cool:

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## 2post

Do you mind me asking how you site your rifle in if you dont have access to a range?

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## 2post

> Anyone got a 500y range ? 
> I regularly shoot deer from 300-500y I'm always pretty picky about shot placement happy to let them walk if they don't present a good shot or I can't get a solid comfortable shooting position. At 400-500y plenty of time to safely set up for shot, range, dial etc. I tend not to shoot at spooked animals I find them too unpredictable. That's just me


How do you sight your rifle in if you don’t have access to a range?

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## dannyb

> How do you sight your rifle in if you don’t have access to a range?


I don't have a 500y range.
I sight in at 100y, then verify at 200y and 300y

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## Moa Hunter

What would be interesting and relevant to me is 100m standing unsupported and then 200m sitting or standing supported - actual field positions not 'range shooting' off bipods taking place on the hill.

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## dannyb

Ummmm I do shoot in the field off my bipod so that is an "actual field position"

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## PerazziSC3

> What would be interesting and relevant to me is 100m standing unsupported and then 200m sitting or standing supported - actual field positions not 'range shooting' off bipods taking place on the hill.


I wouldn't take a 100m standing unsupported let alone 200m unsupported. I've done the test, can't hit shit consistently

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## Moa Hunter

> Ummmm I do shoot in the field off my bipod so that is an "actual field position"


I disagree with bipods being a common field shot, if we look at PRS type matches they use improvised field positions to test a shooters ability to adapt. Adapt to situations that arise in the field. Anyone can shoot off a bipod so it isnt really a test or challenge. What is a challenge is shooting across a sea of Matagouri or from a window in a scrub face, situations where even a 500mm Harris doesn't work

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## Moa Hunter

> I wouldn't take a 100m standing unsupported let alone 200m unsupported. I've done the test, can't hit shit consistently


We should all practice until we can shoot well at 100 unsupported imo. Must confess my shooting isnt as good as it was once. dannyb has seen me shoot a stag, standing position at 200 ( straight after gutshooting one at 100 prone WTF - got both)

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## dannyb

> I disagree with bipods being a common field shot, if we look at PRS type matches they use improvised field positions to test a shooters ability to adapt. Adapt to situations that arise in the field. Anyone can shoot off a bipod so it isnt really a test or challenge. What is a challenge is shooting across a sea of Matagouri or from a window in a scrub face, situations where even a 500mm Harris doesn't work


Disagree all you like, plenty of people can and do use bipods for hunting. I would suggest fewer would attempt a standing 100y shot.
I'm just as happy shooting sitting or prone over my pack, have had to resort to that due to long tussock.
I've only ever shot 2 deer standing 1 at 30-40 yards and 1 at less than 20y......honestly I'd rather shoot at 200y off a rest /bipod or otherwise.

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## Moa Hunter

> Disagree all you like, plenty of people can and do use bipods for hunting. I would suggest fewer would attempt a standing 100y shot.
> I'm just as happy shooting sitting or prone over my pack, have had to resort to that due to long tussock.
> I've only ever shot 2 deer standing 1 at 30-40 yards and 1 at less than 20y......honestly I'd rather shoot at 200y off a rest /bipod or otherwise.


Hmm, well for me I'm going back to shooting everything inside 100 with subsonics when I'm hunting by myself

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## PerazziSC3

> Hmm, well for me I'm going back to shooting everything inside 100 with subsonics when I'm hunting by myself


Have you ever shot something large with a subsonic? 100 is pretty far with a subsonic for someone that gunshots prone from 100m  :Zomg:

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## grandpamac

> Ive been thinking, there are questions about how far is it ethical to shoot at animals, what caliber should I use for@gimp set up a shooting challenge that proves your rifle, this it a hunting challenge.
> Most animals require one shot with a cold barrel and have about a 6 kill zone. So here it is, the dinner plate challenge. 
> Before shoot you, can hit a dinner plate at your given range limit with one shot. You can choose your limit and post your plate. Mine is at 200m (last shot was over a year ago and was a kill on a deer) because that has been my range limit. I then fired a group at a target and found my point of aim needed moving left a little. 
> Some rifles shoot tight groups but need a few fouling shots. Some shoot well clean but foul quickly. Others may start spreading when they warm up. Gongs hits can be guided in but dont count when you are hunting. I dont think it matters if you are hunting, as long as you know your rifle and can make a clean kill with one shot.
> Please post your plate and distance and no prizes. 
> 
> Attachment 200133


Greetings @2post,
Not many takers then. Plenty of smoke and some heat but only one target. I find prone really difficult so no bipod for me. I can shoot sitting with crossed sticks which would be my field postitio so will give it a go over the next couple of weeks and post.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## dannyb

Happy to do it just don't have 500y range to set up a plate  :Thumbsup:  if anyone reasonably local does I'll be happy to oblige.

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## Micky Duck

hmmmm @RUMPY me ol mate...we might have to take a couple of plates out next time we go hunting...be interesting to see if I can hit it with only boresighted rifle....
I recall doing similar thing with my old .270 years ago...5 rounds rapidly fired at 50 yards...all into plate standing....

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## Puffin

My understanding of this "dinner plate challenge" with its intention of demonstrating the ability to achieve a first-shot ethical kill, is that the methods and criteria used are entirely up to the individual, but they must be nominated ahead of taking the shot.

 Its a test based entirely on honest self-evaluation,  and as such looks like it is hugely flexible in being able to cater for any game species, all views on what an ethical kill zone might be, and both the hunters ability and with the limitations of the equipment used for that type of hunting accounted for. Its a well thought-out challenge.      

For myself with my hunting rifle, and standing unsupported,  I would go with a 6" plate (always small deer for me so I would make that a fixed parameter) but go with a distance of 25 metres. Beyond that Ill let the deer go unless I can find a tree trunk to rest up against to stabilise things, and with this the challenge distance can increase to 50 metres.  Prone and off a pack, matching a slip shooting scenario; 250 metres for me, and this is my overall maximum distance - to a large extent set by my low-magnification scope. 

Accepting that most hunters shoot a lot better than me, and hunt with rifles better set up for longer distances, I will also be interested to see the "plates" for 100 metres unsupported and 200 metres sitting.

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## 2post

Great discussion so far, the last deer I shot, I sat cross legged with my left elbow on my knee. I will have to check that position next time I’m at the range.
This is meant to test real world hunting so over a pack would be my preference. 
Just show us your dinner plate, distance and rest.

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## 25/08IMP

That sounds like a bit of fun I'll try the .223 and the Creedmoor at 300 next week when I'm sighting in my sons rifle.

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## charliehorse

I shot my plate @2post but I couldn't find all the pieces so will have to try a plastic one tomorrow when/if I'm allowed back in the house

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## silentscope

instead of aiming to hit the plate aim to hit the black dot in the middle, aim small miss small. i am curious to see how far the barrel can be stretched until i miss the plate now the challenge has been laid.

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## 2post

> I shot my plate @2post but I couldn't find all the pieces so will have to try a plastic one tomorrow when/if I'm allowed back in the house


I’ll accept a photo of a broken plate.  :Grin:

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## Moa Hunter

> Have you ever shot something large with a subsonic? 100 is pretty far with a subsonic for someone that gunshots prone from 100m


Yes quite right re gutshot and to be honest I dont know how that happened, but I can only think that despite having time and being careful there must have been some obstruction near the stag that the bullet touched. Large with subs - up to Elk on the farm and fallow and reds wild with 300gr but subs now are 405gr. It is pretty easy to shoot rabbits at 50 -60 standing with a 22 so a deer at 100 is even easier, it's all just practice. Commercial shooters get very good some of them are stunning shots. Have posted this old photo before, cant post any new photos 44 subs

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## kukuwai

I will be taking a plate with my cold barrelled shooting stick next time im at the range for sure. It should be interesting 

Given my rifle is sighted in at 200 I usually have a couple of shots at this distance to check the zero and then extend out the range.

This idea has pricked my interest tho so me next time its first shot at the plate 400y.

I will be using the bipod tho as I invariably do in the field/hunting situation....for me it is not about the test/challenge but about using the best tools i have available to execute the most accurate/humane kill possible !!




> Anyone can shoot off a bipod so it isnt really a test or challenge.


Note... I am not a bush hunter 





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## Tentman

> instead of aiming to hit the plate aim to hit the black dot in the middle, aim small miss small. i am curious to see how far the barrel can be stretched until i miss the plate now the challenge has been laid.


Not too many deer have "dots" on them, for a more realistic test lose the dot.  Most hunters I see at the range would benefit from learning to "select" an aiming point.

Last deer I shot was standing at 120M and the impact point was at least 125mm off my intended impact point.   Will see what I can do at range tomorrow.

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## 2post

I put tape in the middle because it was a white plate on a white back ground. I couldn’t see the tape in the end because it was covered with the reticle.
Feel free to add a target to your plate, it’s about hitting the kill zone and taking home dinner.

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## Happy Jack

No range here but I do have a place over the back with a big ridge where I can safely get out to 200m. Probably have to sit this one out though unless some snow melts.

Only deer shot to date was sitting with rifle unsupported but then deer was less than 20m away.

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## tiroahunta

Must try this. Try to go supported as much as I can(three points of contact). It'll be interesting  

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## Moa Hunter

> No range here but I do have a place over the back with a big ridge where I can safely get out to 200m. Probably have to sit this one out though unless some snow melts.
> 
> Only deer shot to date was sitting with rifle unsupported but then deer was less than 20m away.


And .. you had been practicing 'off hand' shouldering, target acquired and snapping off virtually every night in the lead up

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## mikee

I can remember attending a practical shooting competition a few years ago. Targets from 100 to 700m. Very first stage was 100m targets of decreasing size to be shot off hand..............................................  ..................... All other stages were prone off bipod. 
Most of us got off to a bad start  :Grin:

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## PerazziSC3

The hunters course at sparrow hawk is a pretty good test for this sort of thing. No hiding from the sound of a gong

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## timattalon

> instead of aiming to hit the plate aim to hit the black dot in the middle, aim small miss small. i am curious to see how far the barrel can be stretched until i miss the plate now the challenge has been laid.


I do something like this but the 'dot' is halfway between the centre of the plate and the top. That is my aim point when the shots are out past the 'scope is full of animal '" rage . If it is within 60 m or so it is really point and shoot abut most of my (few) hunting shots are between 100m and 250m.  So the reason I use the above aiming point is : I  set my scope so it is 1.5" high at 100m It peaks at 1.7" at about 150m and is very close to zero at 200m. A t 300m I am about 4.5 inches below. So if the 10 inch plate is th kill zone that I need to put the shot into, I aim the cross hair on where the circle is located. 


Say the plate / kill zone is 10 inches.

If the deer is within 0 to 50m I will hit somewhere between the cross and the circle as the bullet rises.
Between 50m and 150m it will be between the circle and  about 1 inch below the top edge of the plate.
From 150m at peak to 200m it will hit in the same place on the way down. 
From 200m to 275m it will hit somewhere between the circle and about to about an inch below the cross in the centre. 
It drops off the bottom at around 350m  but I would say that I need to get closer as I dont like to take shots past about 200m to 250 as it is getting past my abilities rather than the rifles. 

By doing it this way, I am able to be wrong on my distance estimate and still be able to make the shot effective.

I could hit the target but the risk of losing a wounded animal if I missplace the shot is not something I will do.

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## 2post

> I do something like this but the 'dot' is halfway between the centre of the plate and the top. That is my aim point when the shots are out past the 'scope is full of animal '" rage . If it is within 60 m or so it is really point and shoot abut most of my (few) hunting shots are between 100m and 250m.  So the reason I use the above aiming point is : I  set my scope so it is 1.5" high at 100m It peaks at 1.7" at about 150m and is very close to zero at 200m. A t 300m I am about 4.5 inches below. So if the 10 inch plate is th kill zone that I need to put the shot into, I aim the cross hair on where the circle is located. 
> 
> 
> 
> Say the plate / kill zone is 10 inches.
> 
> If the deer is within 0 to 50m I will hit somewhere between the cross and the circle as the bullet rises.
> Between 50m and 150m it will be between the circle and  about 1 inch below the top edge of the plate.
> From 150m at peak to 200m it will hit in the same place on the way down. 
> ...


My rifle is set the same as yours, zero at 200, it will be two inch’s high at 100 and 4or so at 300. All the deer I’ve shot have been in the 100 to 160 range and I’ve limited myself to 200. The dinner plate challenge will be my test for longer ranges. Until the other day I’ve not had anywhere further than 200 to prove my and my rifles ability. Having shot at 1K I should have confidence to shoot up to 500 but I’ll limit myself to 200 until I pass my own test.

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## Gibo

> Post it up @Gibo no sighters from when you last shot. You might be horrified


Will do next time at the range, pretty confident it will be in the middle at 200 off a bipod though

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## PerazziSC3

300 winmag at 500m prone in the tussock country. Not ideal 



6.5 creedmoor 500m same shooting position. Just fired 3x as I hadn't shot past 100m with this rifle but it's on the money

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## PerazziSC3

308, same position again hadn't fired rifle past 100m. Either zero is off or my data as it's high. Still a decent group at 500m just needs validation

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## dannyb

Cold bore at 500yards haven't actually shot this rifle without the magnetospeed hanging off the end until today.
Will need to shoot a target at 100y to confirm absolute zero without the magnetospeed.
But still easily dead deer at 500y.



Went on to shot a group.
Pretty happy with that for a 500yard group.




Bread and butter plate at 100yards standing, the shot highest and furthest right is me 1 shot at 100y standing.
Jock also had a couple cracks at it too and they are the other 2 holes.



Cheers for a fun session Jock always good to catch up  :Cool: 
Learnt a valuable lesson not to leave my pastie unattended around the short legged visla  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## PerazziSC3

@dannyb dog is happy with himself

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## Moa Hunter

Good shooting Danny, see you guys are actually better standing than you thought you were !

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## dannyb

> @dannyb dog is happy with himself 
> Attachment 200203


He should be with half my pastie in his gullet  :Grin:  lucky he's cute  :Wink:

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## dannyb

I will say those pink dots are about 2" diameter and they are plurry hard to line up on at 500y but had to improvise as we didn't have any plates  :Cool:  
We also had a slight wind, sunstrike and shooting uphill to contend with, no excuses just putting it in perspective these were "field" shots not shot off a bench on a flat sheltered range. 
Good times  :Thumbsup:

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## 2post

> I will say those pink dots are about 2" diameter and they are plurry hard to line up on at 500y but had to improvise as we didn't have any plates  
> We also had a slight wind, sunstrike and shooting uphill to contend with, no excuses just putting it in perspective these were "field" shots not shot off a bench on a flat sheltered range. 
> Good times


Whats the approximate diameter of your circles/ plate 12?

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## dannyb

> What’s the approximate diameter of your circles/ plate 12”?


Jock traced one of his dinner plates as a template so he will have to confirm but I would say 12" if I was a betting man @PerazziSC3 will have to confirm

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## PerazziSC3

> Jock traced one of his dinner plates as a template so he will have to confirm but I would say 12" if I was a betting man @PerazziSC3 will have to confirm


26cm

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## dannyb

> 26cm


Just over 10"  :Thumbsup:

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## Tahr

Good shooting you blokes. 

The more you shoot the better you be.

Shooting hundreds of wallaby a year for the last few years has upped my game. One thing I have learned is that its worth while making sure you have the best rest possible and its only in the sudden spook and shoot situations that I will shoot off hand. My hit rate on running wallaby is pretty miserable but with a good rest I seldom ever miss out to a few hundred yards.

I've shot 40 deer this year for about 45 shots. Don't recall a miss but there has been the odd follow up shot when they have not gone down quick enough. 50 to 500 yards. Maybe 5 of them were standing shots, the balance with a rest. Sometimes just a tree or my pack on a scrub bush. Mostly off a bipod. 

I put a lot of time into ensuring that my rifles shoot spot on. But I know this, when it comes to shooting a 12" plate at 200 yards Im very likely to embarrass myself. I will give it a go though and post the results.

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## Micky Duck

my rough boresight was miserable fail with the .45/70......was about 12" low at about a hundy.....
I say about as the rock I used to check on knob down hill was small and I wasnt going down to check....got it back to near enough....and still managed to miss a wallaby at 50 yards....I did however get two with one round later on...at all of 25 yards,both got a finishing round but neither would have lived long.
did find out that 4x makes them look tiny at 5-600 yards LOL... will have to do the proper range thing and see whats what..... the three paper plates I carried all day were not harmed in the making of this journey.

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## dannyb

> Good shooting you blokes. 
> 
> The more you shoot the better you be.
> 
> Shooting hundreds of wallaby a year for the last few years has upped my game. One thing I have learned is that its worth while making sure you have the best rest possible and its only in the sudden spook and shoot situations that I will shoot off hand. My hit rate on running wallaby is pretty miserable but with a good rest I seldom ever miss out to a few hundred yards.
> 
> I've shot 40 deer this year for about 45 shots. Don't recall a miss but there has been the odd follow up shot when they have not gone down quick enough. 50 to 500 yards. Maybe 5 of them were standing shots, the balance with a rest. Sometimes just a tree or my pack on a scrub bush. Mostly off a bipod. 
> 
> I put a lot of time into ensuring that my rifles shoot spot on. But I know this, when it comes to shooting a 12" plate at 200 yards Im very likely to embarrass myself. I will give it a go though and post the results.


Don't bother shooting it at 200y shoot it at 500y or whatever your self imposed max hunting range is  :Thumbsup:  outside of load developement I don't shoot paper at all infact I hate shooting targets for groups believe it or not. 
My rifles are meat gathering tools  :Psmiley:

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## Tahr

> Don't bother shooting it at 200y shoot it at 500y or whatever your self imposed max hunting range is  outside of load developement I don't shoot paper at all infact I hate shooting targets for groups believe it or not. 
> My rifles are meat gathering tools


Yikes. 500 yards would be a double embarrassment for me. But ok, I will do it.

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## tetawa

Only do 1 shot groups with hunting rifles, where the first shot goes on clean barrel means much to me, seldom shoot over 200 meters, most shots 20-40 meters.

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## Maca49

> I would be horrified if that was my result at 200m, no offence to you but personally thats not good enough for what i want


 @Gibo, it 200 not 20  :Thumbsup:

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## Gibo

Oh, my bad

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## Micky Duck

at 20mtrs with a smoothbore that would be very good.......

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## tiroahunta

My efforts. 

Unknown distance. If I remember Ill try n RF it. 
Two shots. Different positions both unsupported. 


Target is at bottom of white line. 

Second shot bullet skipped onto plate. 


First shot clipped the edge. 
Second is closer to the middle. 
The corner where the dirt is was stuck into the ground. 

Its a bread n butter plate size. 7-8 maybe


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## tiroahunta

> My efforts. 
> 
> Two shots. Different positions both unsupported. 
> 
> 
> Target is at bottom of white line. 
> 
> Second shot bullet skipped onto plate. 
> 
> ...


Shot this later
Unknown distance again. Closer than plate though. 


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## Trout

Good luck with the dinner plate shooting guys,interesting.                                                                                                                                               
Id be pissed off if i cant shoot a 5 cent coin at a hundy,cold clean bore shot(kill shot),shooting off a rest.But 500 yds would be my limit on a red,400 on a fallow,but id want a good shooting position for that distance.Probly shot half my deer out to 100yds,me standing no rest.Ten deer+1 pig last summer plus 2 misses.The 2 misses were around the 300 350yds,hurryed shots,not confortable shooting positions lying on stoney river bed,bugger it.Every couple of months in summer i go to the range,using 147gr nato ammo.I practice hitting the dinner plate at 50,100yds just standing,can be hard to do sometimes.
If you can.just fire two rounds at your target say,200yds,go home,let the barrel cool down over night.Come back the next day fire 2 more.These are yr kill shots out hunting if you are on the dot.You hear a lot of guys shooting 20,30 rds in one visit to the range,your barrel gets too hot,you chasing yr scope around.Any how got lucky 2 summers ago,shot two deer on the run thru the necks at 160yds and 200yds.Shot both deer about a minuts apart,shooting thru a thermal clip on.
I cant do the dinner plate thing at the moment,my scope is off the rifle.Im waiting for a new scope,nothing flash,to come up from the deep south.

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## RugerM77

Ruger 7 x 57. Cold shot 200 metres, prone, elbows no rest. Group A off bench, group B scope dialed up minute angle. Outside of 50 metres I'll always take the best rest I can find. Have never shot an animal 300 metres or over. Could have done several times but always managed to sneak closer. For me the most exhilarating part of it all. Cenral North Island. Mainly bush.

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## Magnetite

Is the plate for this challenge the 230mm or 180mm?

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## Tentman

Hmmm - I used a 180mm plate and the rule, only one shot, cold bore . ...I would post up a photo but at 400 off a bipod there was no hole.  Had it been a deer the splash told me Id have at least put a hole in it, and it might have moved a bit (top of lungs).  Will try again next time.

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## RugerM77

@Magnetite, I thought somewhere, someone said 10". I went for 8" and used a 200 metre NZDA target. Had no dinner plates, well, none that I could use with out causing disharmony.

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## 2post

I used a 150mm plate but it’s about the kill zone and taking home dinner. 300mm should be in the kill zone in a large red but I would prefer 200 as a limit.
The challenge is about ethics and conscience with added challenge to see what we can hit in our normal hunting situation and the challenges that go with it.
I’ve had a few experiences where although I’ve had a clean kill I didn’t hit where I’ve aimed. I plan to have a few try’s with different shooting rests to see if my point of aim changes. This will take me some time as I only get one shot per trip to the range.

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## flock

Had a crack today, cold shot 2 inches off the middle of the plate, free hand at 100 metres, awesome. 
But I couldn't repeat it, couldn't even hit the bloody plate. Great reality check, always using shooting sticks these days, obviously for good reason. Too much time at bench rest and not enough on the hill.

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> Had a crack today, cold shot 2 inches off the middle of the plate, free hand at 100 metres, awesome. 
> But I couldn't repeat it, couldn't even hit the bloody plate. Great reality check, always using shooting sticks these days, obviously for good reason. Too much time at bench rest and not enough on the hill.


What calibre? There would be a huge difference between lets say a 7mm rem mag and a 223 standing free hand shot at 100m.

I take my hate off to anyone who can hit a dinner plate at 100m free hand in a standing position with a 300 win mag or 7mm rem mag.

Anyone out there doing this?

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## dannyb

> What calibre? There would be a huge difference between lets say a 7mm rem mag and a 223 standing free hand shot at 100m.
> 
> I take my hate off to anyone who can hit a dinner plate at 100m free hand in a standing position with a 300 win mag or 7mm rem mag.
> 
> Anyone out there doing this?


Did it yesterday with the 300wsm does that count  :ORLY:

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> Did it yesterday with the 300wsm does that count


Yep   :Thumbsup:

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## Micky Duck

I tend to disagree for a single round.........you are going to be up and bang.....no time to worry about recoil,and standing the recoil is going to be felt heaps less than prone as body can sway with it.

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## Micky Duck

years ago I attended a triagle shoot at the nzda in Timaru...held in pleasant point...a novelty shoot was held later in day...howling wind from right to left and a chammy target at 50 yards,5 shots rapid..... there was bugger all in it between calibres..it was down to the nut behind the butt...sure showed the fellas who regularly shoot standing.

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> I tend to disagree for a single round.........you are going to be up and bang.....no time to worry about recoil,and standing the recoil is going to be felt heaps less than prone as body can sway with it.


Hmmm I'm pretty sure I couldn't hit shit with my 7mm rem mag standing free hand at 100m

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## Micky Duck

interesting,its all a mind game...no different to the 223 ...you stand up,line up and pull trigger...... try it ,you may be surprised. 50 yards is much better range for freehand.

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## dannyb

> I tend to disagree for a single round.........you are going to be up and bang.....no time to worry about recoil,and standing the recoil is going to be felt heaps less than prone as body can sway with it.


At 6'8 and about 115kg I'm a pretty sizeable bloke but it really wasn't a big deal my 300 is suppressed if that matters ? I would do it again without hesitation,  it's all in the technique.  Wrap whatever arm you hold the fore with through the sling, then using the tension created by that to pull the but nice and firm into your shoulder and get a solid cheek weld (sounds complicated but it's easy as and having a rifle that fits you well certainly helps) you'll probably still wobble all over the place but it's much easier to steady the rifle with your front arm wrapped through the sling.
The recoil wasn't an issue at all, but I love my magnums and rarely shoot anything else.

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## Micky Duck

most centrefires have less recoil than a .12ga with field loads...and a field load is less than modern steel loads....

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## Trout

Well dannyb,im so please you make me feel smallish at 6'4''at 140kgs.But i can still walk 4ks in 40 minuts.Il do a little speed test on the canel road every few months.Make sure i can still walk even tho i live in 2 storey house.Good climbing practice.lols
Keep up the magum shooting db.

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## yogi

The last time I was at a range and watched a bunch of guys shooting freehand at 100m targets, I would have to say not many can shoot a good group at that range.
Nathan Foster talks about this issue in his books and I totally agree. 
You generally need to be shooting a lot of rounds regularly to be able to shoot well, which is definitely the case for myself.
Rabbits and wallaby shooting are fantastic for your shooting skills as there are plenty of targets about and you get to fire plenty of ammo.
You develop good trigger control and the discipline required to shoot well under a hunting situation.

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## Tentman

Offhand shooting is a bit of a headgame too.  I was at a PRS shoot recently, one stage featured a playe of about 400mm at a range of under 200M.  Most guys were getting 2 hits from 5 rounds at most.  Up tl the line stepped a very competent pest destruction guy - a well known shooter who regularly wins both 22 and CF matches.  Bugger me - he didn't make any more hits than the mob.  Then his mate (who also shoots a lot of PD) did the same.

Bad day in the office.  I know for a fact both if them can shoot way better than I saw that day.

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## flock

Was a 223 I used, with scope set at 6X any more magnifcation the target shakes around mad women taking a dump. Key to it is, get on target and pull the trigger the longer you piss around the more you shake. 
Quiet offen when bench rest shooting, I move around aroud behind the scope to check out any paralax, close my eyes, the quick refocus then bang seems to work, remember watching a old boy watching his wife shoot 22 target --- that be a bad one & he was right so asked why, he replied your first vision on the sights/ target  are your best, the longer you stain, old eyes especially the more off, you get.  Interesting

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## Tahr

> Well dannyb,im so please you make me feel smallish at 6'4''at 140kgs.But i can still walk 4ks in 40 minuts.Il do a little speed test on the canel road every few months.Make sure i can still walk even tho i live in 2 storey house.Good climbing practice.lols
> Keep up the magum shooting db.


Go you! If you and Danny haven't got covid you should stand by for an All Blacks call up. They are going down like flies.

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## Trout

Shooting roos on the run with the 308 certainly gets them out of the bull tussocks and matagari.Have a couple of 5 shot mags spare.Great practice for lazy deer strolling along into your view.

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## Tentman

Haha - the two blokes i was talking about are roo shooters (well wallabies anyway)

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Precision shooting and shooting for groups etc is a whole other ball game than proficient and practical shooting. 
I'm going to sound like that "my dad is bigger than your dad" kid here but my dad is actually my hero when it comes to being proficient with a rifle. He shoots for a living these days, on the ground and from a chopper. He can shoot a running deer or wallaby through the neck at 70 yds from a chopper waving all over the show and quite often several in quick succession, can swing a rifle up whilst exerting himself and shoot running hares etc with boring efficiency. Yet, if you asked him to sit down and shoot some groups he would just stare at you blankly and possibly even ask "why?"

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## Happy Jack

> Well dannyb,im so please you make me feel smallish at 6'4''at 140kgs.But i can still walk 4ks in 40 minuts.Il do a little speed test on the canel road every few months.Make sure i can still walk even tho i live in 2 storey house.Good climbing practice.lols
> Keep up the magum shooting db.


I can confirm that @dannyb is a giant among men but then again I'm a massive 5'6" and 62kg and still outperform the other builders I work with who are 20+ years younger than me.

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## Trout

> Was a 223 I used, with scope set at 6X any more magnifcation the target shakes around mad women taking a dump. Key to it is, get on target and pull the trigger the longer you piss around the more you shake. 
> Quiet offen when bench rest shooting, I move around aroud behind the scope to check out any paralax, close my eyes, the quick refocus then bang seems to work, remember watching a old boy watching his wife shoot 22 target --- that be a bad one & he was right so asked why, he replied your first vision on the sights/ target  are your best, the longer you stain, old eyes especially the more off, you get.  Interesting


when zeroing rifles,i always have a shut eye for 15 seconds,relaxed breathing,on the exhale,open eyes to buitifull clear picture and bang.

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## Dreamer

Gave it a go this morning once the fog lifted
Clean cold barrel @405 yds didnt quite get the breeze right though

Then tried the standing unsupported @108 yds and I fully admit really surprised myself so fired a second shot just to see



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## Tahr

> Gave it a go this morning once the fog lifted
> Clean cold barrel @405 yds didn’t quite get the breeze right though
> 
> Then tried the standing unsupported and I fully admit really surprised myself so fired a second shot just to see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Standing??  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Dreamer

> Standing??


I know! I was very surprised how well those 2 went! 


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## Micky Duck

75 yards .270 win   standing,called the shot 7 oclock 2" low  it was 7 oclock 3" low       and missed pig at 10 yards and another at 20!!!!!! they werent very big and fern was taller than them,shooting at glimpse of pig having kicked them out of bed.....my confidence took a hell of a hit so shot plate when got back to wagon

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## dannyb

> 75 yards .270 win   standing,called the shot 7 oclock 2" low  it was 7 oclock 3" low       and missed pig at 10 yards and another at 20!!!!!! they werent very big and fern was taller than them,shooting at glimpse of pig having kicked them out of bed.....my confidence took a hell of a hit so shot plate when got back to wagon


 :Useless:

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> 75 yards .270 win   standing,called the shot 7 oclock 2" low  it was 7 oclock 3" low       and missed pig at 10 yards and another at 20!!!!!! they werent very big and fern was taller than them,shooting at glimpse of pig having kicked them out of bed.....my confidence took a hell of a hit so shot plate when got back to wagon


Pick yourself up and get back on that horse, you can do it   :Wink:

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> Gave it a go this morning once the fog lifted
> Clean cold barrel @405 yds didn’t quite get the breeze right though
> 
> Then tried the standing unsupported @108 yds and I fully admit really surprised myself so fired a second shot just to see
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Now thats what I call shooting   :Thumbsup:

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## RUMPY

Leave him alone @dannyb, he's technologically handicapped and I forgot to teach him how to post pics when he asked. Not sure if he should call me a real mate anymore.

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## Micky Duck

ILL FIX him...I txt photo to @dannyb  its a pain in the arse for me to post photo as have to upload it onto computer to begin with....will try from phone but ...yip Im a techtard.

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## dannyb

@Micky Duck 's plate 


 :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> @Micky Duck 's plate 
> Attachment 200436


I don't see any holes in it  :36 1 7:

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## dannyb

> I don't see any holes in it


 :Zomg:   :Grin:   :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:   :O O:   :Wink:

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## Micky Duck

bastard!!!!!!

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## Woody

I think he chucked the pooseventy for a blowgun. They dont work very well at 100 metres either  :Have A Nice Day:

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## dannyb

Here is @Micky Duck 's actual plate....standing shot at 75yards

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## RUMPY

Photos backwards but we get the idea. I can confirm @Micky Duck neck shot a fast moving wallaby at 30 metres with an open sighted 45/70 a couple of months ago. The man can shoot on a good day.

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## Micky Duck

so looking on phone...blue screen,where the hell is option to add a photo????

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## RUMPY

I'll give you a call mate.

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## DBD

Here's my target at 500m off a bipod, 8" blanking flange hanging off a traffic management sign pole.
I have a vid but no idea how to load it. Very keen to see how unsupported goes.

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## Micky Duck

you dont need to go unsupported,the challenge is all about putting it back into a hunting type situation.... try it prone over a daybag,or bipod.... you dont cart a lead sled up the hill after deer so its out.

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## Micky Duck

I BELIEVE Dreamer shot unsupported 2 shots at 108 YARDS the first longer shot wasnt standing.....

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## DBD

> you dont need to go unsupported,the challenge is all about putting it back into a hunting type situation.... try it prone over a daybag,or bipod.... you dont cart a lead sled up the hill after deer so its out.


Who carts a led sled up a hill to shoot off a bipod? I'm missing something here.

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## flock

So disgusted the our day I didn't retrieve the plate,   1 st shot yer beauty,  fired 2 more and didn't see a hit. Back for a shot today recovered the plate so 2 out of 3 ait bad. Still a good challenge, swear I was better when I was younger, take a rabbit most times.

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## 2post

> Gave it a go this morning once the fog lifted
> Clean cold barrel @405 yds didnt quite get the breeze right though
> 
> Then tried the standing unsupported @108 yds and I fully admit really surprised myself so fired a second shot just to see
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thats great shooting @Dreamer. Whats your plate size? Not that it matter since youre in the middle. 👍

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## 2post

> Here is  @Micky Duck 's actual plate....standing shot at 75yards
> 
> Attachment 200437


Well done @Micky Duck, thats in the engine room.
As long as its a 200pound boar 😂

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## Micky Duck

> Who carts a led sled up a hill to shoot off a bipod? I'm missing something here.


I been missing things as of late too!!!!!! as long as its not the plate LOL....

I was being a bit tongue in cheek re lead sled.....could have put,shooting bench,rifle vice, rail gun,25lb rifle  and would still read the same.

unsupported shot = you plus rifle plus what you normally take hunting,the bipod is now pretty much standard for lots of folks,so its a bit of grey area as to if you still unsupported.

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## DBD

> I been missing things as of late too!!!!!! as long as its not the plate LOL....
> 
> I was being a bit tongue in cheek re lead sled.....could have put,shooting bench,rifle vice, rail gun,25lb rifle  and would still read the same.
> 
> unsupported shot = you plus rifle plus what you normally take hunting,the bipod is now pretty much standard for lots of folks,so its a bit of grey area as to if you still unsupported.


Ah yep with you now, all my shooting is with a bipod on the ground or off a pack. It makes sense to practise like you out in da bush.

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## flock

Think I found my missing 100m standing shot, the others were using full height home made shooting sticks, massive difference. Carry them always, doubles up as walking stick.

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## Dreamer

> Thats great shooting @Dreamer. Whats your plate size? Not that it matter since youre in the middle.


Thanks @2post. The plate circle is 10 inches 


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## grandpamac

Greetings All,
It has been a lovely day so after lunch I made myself a dinner plate target (felt marker circle on paper 195mm dia) and had one shot at 100 metres. I fired sitting using a pair of sticks and the shot went 65mm high and 35mm right of center. The rifle had been roughly zeroed for this projectile, my practise load, and was shot today with a cold clean barrel. In spite of leaving my glasses in the shed and shooting over the sticks I felt pretty steady so I am asking myself.
Is the rifle shooting high because of the rough zero, the cold clean barrel or is it Grandpamac error? Would it be any different with my hunting loads? How would I go at 200 metres, 300 metres?
Honestly I don't know the answer but intend to find out.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## GWH

Just seen this thread.

I like this idea, its all good and well walking a shot onto a plate at LR, anyone can do that.  But this is a true test of the cold bore first shot counts when in the field shooting at a deer.

I've been away on a hunting trip over the weekend.  Had my 7mm SAUM, it hadnt been fired since shooting its last 2 deer a couple of months back.  Anyway, late sat arvo my 'dinner plate' (red yearlings shoulder) was at 405 yards,  I dialed up the required 4.5 MOA, held a very small amount for the light right to left breeze and fired.

My 'dinner plate' jumped and lurched forward into the adjacent scrub.  I headed around and dropped down, and found the little red deer with a nice hole thru its nearside dinner plate, and a larger messier hole thru its offside dinner plate with a piece of lung hanging out of it.  The dinner plate is now in pieces chillaxing in my beer fridge.

I was prone obviously, harris bipod, and i used my camera bag stuffed with my thick fleece gloves as a rear support under the back of the stock, just as I always do for a long-range hunting shot.

Seriously though, this dinner plate challenge is a good test of equipment and shooter.  I paint 3" pink dots on my white gong plates, if I cannot hit that pink dot with a cold bore shot at 400 yards (max distance available at my local range) after pulling the rifle out of the gun bag then my equipment and/or me need some work.

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## akaroa1

I did something like this when my son in law started shooting 
But used orange clay targets 
Sets of nails to hold 5 clay targets spread on the range board 
Made him shoot them off hand at about 25m until he could constantly hit them all
Then he would step back 10m more and do it again
He improved heaps in only a few sessions

Now he's quite capable even with my really big rifles

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## akaroa1

> I did something like this when my son in law started shooting 
> But used orange clay targets 
> Sets of nails to hold 5 clay targets spread on the range board 
> Made him shoot them off hand at about 25m until he could constantly hit them all
> Then he would step back 10m more and do it again
> He improved heaps in only a few sessions
> 
> Now he's quite capable even with my really big rifles


Should have said that was with a 22 LR

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## 2post

> Just seen this thread.
> 
> I like this idea, its all good and well walking a shot onto a plate at LR, anyone can do that.  But this is a true test of the cold bore first shot counts when in the field shooting at a deer.
> 
> I've been away on a hunting trip over the weekend.  Had my 7mm SAUM, it hadnt been fired since shooting its last 2 deer a couple of months back.  Anyway, late sat arvo my 'dinner plate' (red yearlings shoulder) was at 405 yards,  I dialed up the required 4.5 MOA, held a very small amount for the light right to left breeze and fired.
> 
> My 'dinner plate' jumped and lurched forward into the adjacent scrub.  I headed around and dropped down, and found the little red deer with a nice hole thru its nearside dinner plate, and a larger messier hole thru its offside dinner plate with a piece of lung hanging out of it.  The dinner plate is now in pieces chillaxing in my beer fridge.
> 
> I was prone obviously, harris bipod, and i used my camera bag stuffed with my thick fleece gloves as a rear support under the back of the stock, just as I always do for a long-range hunting shot.
> ...


Sorry but I must insist of photos, perhaps lightly seared back straps with a red wine jus will suffice.

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## Double tap

This is my boys dinner plate from a month ago (well it at least ended up on his dinner plate) about 80yards prone 243 win 
He had never fired this rifle before and no adjustments have been made to this rifle setup in over 16 years
Says to me while getting behind the rifle should I aim for the crease of its shoulder again. Yep is my reply
And that is where he sent it right in centre of the crease it never took a step

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## tiroahunta

> My efforts. 
> 
> Unknown distance. If I remember Ill try n RF it. 
> Two shots. Different positions both unsupported. 
> 
> 
> Target is at bottom of white line. 
> 
> Second shot bullet skipped onto plate. 
> ...


I ranged it yesterday. 161 metres. 

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## Mooseman

Took 5 rifles out for a dinner plate shoot this morning, weather perfect , no wind to speak of. I went to a spot i could get 400 yds but the trees have grown a bit so only managed 325 yds which for this was good enough. I used my day pack and bush shirt rolled up under the butt for support similar to field shooting. 1 shot from a clean cold bore for each.
As you can see the 223 was quite a bit low but the rest were all good. Last time i used the 223 i hit a small (6 inch ) gong at 200 yards twice so not sure what was going on but after the dinner plate challenge I re sighted it in and it was 2 MOA low, now it is about 1.6 inch high at 100 yards. Certainly pays to check your zero on a semi regular basis otherwise you could get caught out.

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## 2post

Nice @Mooseman it can be a bit of an eye opener eh.

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## grandpamac

Greetings All,
It dawned fine, clear and calm again in HB today so time for another crack at the challenge. Today the subject was my T3 6.5x55 shot sitting at 198 metres using my Pole Cat sticks. As far as I can remember the rifle was zeroed for the current load at 200 metres. The shot was dead on for windage and 90 mm low, just inside my 195mm circle. The circle was a little hard to see through my 6 power scope so I will fatten up the line for next time. Any shots I take in the field are likely to be sitting with the sticks so some testing is on the cards for any impact shift between the bench and them. This is a good and interesting test which I will repeat every range session from now on. Photo is from the shootong position with the cell phone zoomed up as far as it will go.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## The bomb

Gonna give it a go with the 44 and red dot ,then with the peep sights fitted,should be interesting..

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## grandpamac

Greetings Again,
Finally worked out how to whittle down the size of my photo's so here is my dinnerplate target.
GPM.

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## shift14

Not a dinner plate shot, but that’s were it ended up. Barrel was fouled on the drive down.
Cold bore 561 yds. Off my Molly Me.





B

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> Not a dinner plate shot, but thats were it ended up. Barrel was fouled on the drive down.
> Cold bore 561 yds. Off my Molly Me.
> 
> Attachment 200740
> 
> Attachment 200741
> 
> B


Thats a nice shot, well done. That strap around the barrel can't have affected the shot.

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## shift14

> Thats a nice shot, well done. That strap around the barrel can't have affected the shot.


I’m fortunate enough to be able to verify on a 1m x 1m plate at 565 or 615 yds.



60mm dots

B

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## Micky Duck

the strap wont effect a thing UNLESS you put pressure on it.....loads of early safari type rifles had sling mounted there,had a barrel band on them for it...has advantage of sitting lower on your shoulder when slung.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

I have three gongs set up permanently on farm and if I have rifle with me I'll randomly stop and do a quick drill, prone but unsupported at a 6" gong at 260yds, then a 10" gong at 440 and one at 530 off a rolled up jacket or whatever I have available at the time, hit the 260 100% of the time, 440 nearly everytime and the 530 I'm reasonably consistent on it's just the wind that plays games with me shooting a .333 BC 243 bullet

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## Mooseman

> I have three gongs set up permanently on farm and if I have rifle with me I'll randomly stop and do a quick drill, prone but unsupported at a 6" gong at 260yds, then a 10" gong at 440 and one at 530 off a rolled up jacket or whatever I have available at the time, hit the 260 100% of the time, 440 nearly everytime and the 530 I'm reasonably consistent on it's just the wind that plays games with me shooting a .333 BC 243 bullet


Nice one, that's the beauty of being on a farm.

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## Moa Hunter

> the strap wont effect a thing UNLESS you put pressure on it.....loads of early safari type rifles had sling mounted there,had a barrel band on them for it...has advantage of sitting lower on your shoulder when slung.


Yeah much better on the barrel, once tried never go back

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## GWH

> Not a dinner plate shot, but that’s were it ended up. Barrel was fouled on the drive down.
> Cold bore 561 yds. Off my Molly Me.
> 
> Attachment 200740
> 
> Attachment 200741
> 
> B


No hearing protection? Or was that just a pose after the shot for the pic?

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> the strap wont effect a thing UNLESS you put pressure on it.....loads of early safari type rifles had sling mounted there,had a barrel band on them for it...has advantage of sitting lower on your shoulder when slung.


Thanks MD, Im learning something new every day. I thought anything touching the barrel can throw the shot but it can't be the case so thanks again for that info.

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## 25/08IMP

100 yards standing .223 and the 6.5 Creedmoor didn't get to try out further.

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## 2post

> 100 yards standing .223 and the 6.5 Creedmoor didn't get to try out further.
> 
> Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk


Nice an really good for standing. I might have to give a standing shot a go.

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## JoshC

Finally got a day without wind try this. Random ranges from high points on the farm.

My 6 year old had to have a go toowasnt keen to just have one shot though! Haha. Pretty proud of his efforts, takes ages to get on target but does well. 








Interestingly, I was checking my 6.5 PRC last week on a gusty day and thought it was shooting to the left so adjusted for that. Probably should have left it given these results






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## Mooseman

Took my 223 , 6.5x55 and 300 WM out today for a try at the standing 100 yds, surprised myself although the 300 WM was low I new I was low when I touched off. Its a bit hard as all my rifles are high at 100 yds so I was trying to compensate by aiming a little lower, pretty happy with the results.

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## Phill243

> What calibre? There would be a huge difference between lets say a 7mm rem mag and a 223 standing free hand shot at 100m.
> 
> I take my hate off to anyone who can hit a dinner plate at 100m free hand in a standing position with a 300 win mag or 7mm rem mag.
> 
> Anyone out there doing this?


I shot a sika spiker in the head with a 7mm blase at about 50 to 60 yards standing unsupported.  Saved the meat haha 

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## veitnamcam

Took the 6.5 prc out this morning, havent shot it in ages and would be over a year since I shot it over 200y I think.

Picked out the dinner plate gong at the range at 475y 10deg up and lay on the sharp frosty gravel in the driveway bipod and no rear bag.
First round hit high center, second round same.

Possibly shooting a bit high because bipod on hard ground or no rear bag or combination of both but I wanted to see what would happen just throw it on the ground and shoot.

In the feild if shooting any sort of distance I would be trying to build a better position  and using clothing or pack or whatever to get some better support.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Don't do a lot of off hand shooting (apart from under 30 or so yards bush shooting) Here's my dinner plate challenge, 147m offhand holding a spotlight and trying to climb out of a side by side, right in the sweet spot  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Shearer

> Don't do a lot of off hand shooting (apart from under 30 or so yards bush shooting) Here's my dinner plate challenge, 147m offhand holding a spotlight and trying to climb out of a side by side, right in the sweet spot  
> Attachment 201655
> Attachment 201656


Perhaps not a dinner plate but definitely dinner.

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## superdiver

Only just seen this thread and it has been a good read. Hopefully will get out soon and give this a go but have recently had a chat with a mate about my max range. Have a 308 that I can put 3 shots into 1 hole with at 100m in a paddock then took it out to 400m(shooting uphill, into the sun and up a gully with a x wind). Ended up firing 2 shots into about 2" at that range(bang on elevation but didn't allow for wind) so was pretty chuffed. Ended up taking a 660m~ shot about a month or so later which i missed . That reinforced my self imposed limit of 500m with that rifle which is what I am going to do the dinner plate challenge on when I get the chance to see if I am competent or if I need to reduce my max range.

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## Bagheera

245m 19cm plate

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## dannyb

> 245m 19cm plate
> Attachment 202374


seems you were low and right into the ground, what range ? what calibre ? what shooting position ?

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## Micky Duck

245m....yeah you hit it in the neck LOL....

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## The bomb

The mighty Rossi puma with the trs red dot..dead deer all day long!

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## dannyb

> 245m....yeah you hit it in the neck LOL....


or the guts or missed completely  :Zomg:   :Psmiley:

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## norsk

10 shots standing, mixed ammo, military ball/150 and 180 grain reloads. Target is 30 cm in diameter, sp a bit bigger than a paper plate?

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## Shearer

Very good shooting. :Thumbsup:

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## 7mm Rem Mag

> seems you were low and right into the ground, what range ? what calibre ? what shooting position ?


Just covering up a rabbit hole, bottom right are rabbit diggings   :15 8 212:

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## Woody

Earlier this week I finalised in theory a 6.5*55 load using sierra 140grain gamechanger bullets and today with fair weather conditions I went to Rotorua NZDA 300metre range to test it. Strelok predicted 2  1/4 moa elevation off my 220 metre zero. Labradar confirmwd MV @ 2764'/sec. I was very pleased with the proof group of 25mm - 0.29moa shooting prone off pack; no sling and my left fist supporting the toe of the stock. Rifle Schultz and Larsen Victory and scipe @ 12X 

 I also rechecked my zero for my go to Sgk sbt 140 load at 300m and it gruipwd .57moa.  :Have A Nice Day:  Pleasing.

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## T.FOYE

> Ummmm I do shoot in the field off my bipod so that is an "actual field position"


It's a perishable skill shooting offhand. I've been devoting more time to it after following this thread. It's not all downsides either - you get less felt recoil than when you're prone (my opinion). I actually got away with my old field target air rifle position using my 45-70. Just don't hold it for more than say 10 seconds tops. Take a rest and try again, close your eye and check if you're naturally on or do you need to adjust your feet?

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## Ross Nolan

I built a tall target to check drops against strelok.

3 @405m, over a pack and with a very light l-r wind. strelok predicted 90cm drop - looks pretty good to me.

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## Delphus

Finally got to the range again to try this out. Did a zero session for both my rifles then tried this, so not clean bore, and a bit of heat mirage going on. I had both rifles set to 5x. As is evidenced by the left plate (completely missed with the .308) I don’t do a lot of standing unsupported shooting, I prefer a quick drop to the knee, which I did on right hand target. 
This is 100m with a bit of headwind. Anything out to 200 I’m happy to shoot off the knee, but any further out I usually have time to go prone and shoot off my pack.

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## Gibo

> I built a tall target to check drops against strelok.
> 
> 3 @405m, over a pack and with a very light l-r wind. strelok predicted 90cm drop - looks pretty good to me.


Looks a bit over engineered!

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## kukuwai

> I built a tall target to check drops against strelok.
> 
> 3 @405m, over a pack and with a very light l-r wind. strelok predicted 90cm drop - looks pretty good to me.


Hey Ross out of interest what caliber you shooting there please ?

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## Ross Nolan

> Hey Ross out of interest what caliber you shooting there please ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


It's a 16 1/2" 260 Rem, shooting 123 grain SST's at 2770. I've got a 156 grain Oryx load @ 2500 that shoots to the  same poi at 100 for stuff that really needs to get in.

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## Ross Nolan

> Looks a bit over engineered!


The target is just the wooden part - but you are probably right.

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## Gibo

> The target is just the wooden part - but you are probably right.


I was having a dig mate  :Wink:

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## Marty Henry

Nice afternoon so I thought I'd chance my arm with the Howa 7.62x39. Cheated a bit and used my diy front rest but as it was 380 metres I thought I need all the help I can get so why not.
1-6 bdc scope, Norinco silver box fmj, 12 inch plate, slight swirling breeze from 9 oclock. First shot ding, see it's on the rhs second in the middle, third on left edge as the wind must have dropped. I'm pretty suprised and quite pleased. It's not a range I would consider shooting at an animal with this cartridge though.

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## Micky Duck

got bored sitting at home so rebedded the Howa .270w with a hot gluegun "blob job" similar to what model 70 winchesters and weatherbys have done in factory...rather happy with outcome and removed pressure points from forestock at same time....
my target paper is 6"x8" with a 1" dot in centre...first two rounds wer inch off to left at hundy...slight adjustment and we good to go..hard work at hundy yards with fixed 4x post n rail...the post covers an inch at that range so its a matter of holding under till just about to fire then slight bit of up and squeaze off.

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## Micky Duck

this fella made mistake of stopping where I could see him...SST at a blistering speed in a hot load did the rest..LEFT HANDED out window of terrano at eye watering range of THREE PACES...

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## 7mm Rem Mag

Nice   :Thumbsup:

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## 7mm Rem Mag

Now be sure to cut 5 inches from wound to avoid food posioning   :Thumbsup:

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## Micky Duck

too late...now if phone would let me upload 2nd photo you would see dinner plate relevance...the dogs got hind quarters and frame,I have scoffed the back steaks for my lunch.

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## Micky Duck



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## Trout

No dinner plate but shooting off the bonnet of truck checking scope zero a week ago.Close enough for the 308 at 100yds then checked 400yds.


Can do better on a good day at 400yds.

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## Trout

When shooting above targets i was looking thru a new Nikko Stirling Octa 2x16x50.After the 100yds shots i dialed 2 clks up and1 right,all good.Wanted a low to high x scope so got this with a life time warranty from Scopeuout NZ for just over $500.Great FOV with a 4A retical.Tipped ove a couple of geese at 300+ yds and shot a deer up a hill at 360yds last week.Thermal clip on looks good thru it.So scope and me are on song.

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## PerazziSC3

Top left and top right 100m checking zero after putting suppressor on (surprisingly zero point of impact change)

Back to 430m for the group in centre 

6.5 creed

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## Bagheera

So, this is one for bush hunting.

One shot at 30 rough paces, which is as far as I could see through the trees, standing, start with rifle slung over one shoulder loaded and safety catch on, 5 second timer on phone.

This is a shot we'd all back ourselves to get, right ?

Target is in the middle of this pic, soft earth behind and I can actually see there's no one on the slope behind.


I suspended the target in vines 50cm above the ground.  It's the 20x20cm cardboard wrapper off a slab on chocolate.


The ground under foot was a little uneven but better than average when you're in a hurry shooting at a deer.


Got the shot away before the timer went off.


Not every snap shot would be so close to the middle of course but I'd be confident to shoot a deer.

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## Puffin

Very Nice! That is the way the challenge was intended: one shot, cold barrel,  and at a distance and with the method and the target size replicating a particular hunting situation, a dinner plate-sized target being for larger deer. It gives a high level of confidence to the hunter as to whether they would be likely to make a humane killing shot on a deer in a similar situation and conditions — or not. 

Deviating from this approach, by taking steps of any kind that improve the likelihood of hitting the target in this contrived situation is fine,  but how then can the effect of these can be quantified and allowed for in a future hunting situation where the same steps can't be applied prior to a single shot being taken?   
For example sighting-in immediately prior to the challenge is fine — if the hunter always sights in immediately before taking a shot at game. If not then the typical hunting conditions aren't being replicated. The question as to whether the rifle shoots to the same point of aim with a recently fouled barrel as opposed to one that was last shot some time ago is not being addressed, along with the rifle's ability to hold zero after being dragged through the bush for several hours etc... there are a number of variables that can change with time since the last zeroing. The same applies to shots being taken at targets progressively further away before taking this challenge at the longest distance,  just like a deer at 600 metres will wait for a hunter to first confirm their come-ups and windage at 200m and 400m _to factor out the effect of those particular conditions_. Again these prior shots are taking out a lot of variables that the challenge was intended to be including as part of an assessment that as closely as possible replicates a hunting situation.

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## Trout

Bet the chocolate tasted nice,good shooting practice for in the bush.Very covered in bush there.

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## Bagheera

Yep the chocolate was good thanks. Have admit i stoppped and ate my lunch before doing this test. Felt a bit tired after an 05:00 start.
This was after 2 days unsuccessful bushunting, sleeping under the fly with the gun beside me.
Last sighted in afew months ago and fired a few rounds at a club range shoot since that.
Also, refrained from dry firing practice on it beforehand.

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## 2post

> So, this is one for bush hunting.
> 
> One shot at 30 rough paces, which is as far as I could see through the trees, standing, start with rifle slung over one shoulder loaded and safety catch on, 5 second timer on phone.
> 
> This is a shot we'd all back ourselves to get, right ?
> 
> Target is in the middle of this pic, soft earth behind and I can actually see there's no one on the slope behind.
> Attachment 211287
> 
> ...


You’ve nailed it. One shot in the kill zone in real a hunting situation.

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## Micky Duck

one could say you have "hit the sweet spot"

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## Bagheera

Here's one at 141m, sitting using a tree for a rest.  Again, a shot we would expect to make but on the other hand we haven't always.

After a couple of hours pushing through scrub I decided I wasn't going to get a deer in this place.


The paper plate is hanging from a Dracophyllum bush in the red circle.


There was some wind from 3 O'Clock but at that range it wouldn't make much difference.  Actually, at the target it was drifting the other way, possibly a bit of a ridge top rotor.

Here's how I set up for the shot, gripping the small tree with a few fingers and holding the foreend out from it with a couple of others so the scope and stock wouldn't make contact.  Not a 100% steady hold but good enough for the 21cm plate.


Here's where it fell.

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## charliehorse

Looks ugly enough to be the top of the kaimais

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## Moa Hunter

> Here's one at 141m, sitting using a tree for a rest.  Again, a shot we would expect to make but on the other hand we haven't always.
> 
> After a couple of hours pushing through scrub I decided I wasn't going to get a deer in this place.
> Attachment 213651
> 
> The paper plate is hanging from a Dracophyllum bush in the red circle.
> Attachment 213652
> 
> There was some wind from 3 O'Clock but at that range it wouldn't make much difference.  Actually, at the target it was drifting the other way, possibly a bit of a ridge top rotor.
> ...


For a right handed shooter try the rifle on the right of the tree with the back of the left wrist loaded against the tree

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## Bagheera

> Looks ugly enough to be the top of the kaimais


If anyone recognises the location … I share your pain.
It was like Cashmores Clearing but without the track.

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## Bagheera

> For a right handed shooter try the rifle on the right of the tree with the back of the left wrist loaded against the tree


Yes, thats what I tried first too. There was something wrong - maybe a branch got in the way of the scope.

There are a variety of ways to splay your hand and fingers over round or flat surfaces from either side which we should practice. 
I like to contact both the surface and the stock with the soft surface of my fingers/ hand rather than resting the bony back of the hand / wrist if I can manage it. But you have to be adaptable.

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## Flyblown

I’ve been practicing shooting in various sitting / standing positions as the grass is so long, prone shooting is a non-starter. Some gong practice shooting uncomfortable positions has really helped fine tune the setup.

What I have found is that the DPT Hunter chassis with a wide sling around the left forearm and left elbow on my left knee, right hand on the pistol grip and right elbow on my right knee which is supported by the sloping ground, produces a very stable position with which to take some difficult shots. 

Recently I’ve been hunting hard country on shitty gradients where long grass / scrub and bad lies make prone shooting impossible. I’ve really appreciated getting the sitting position sorted as its pretty much on autopilot now. Getting the sling length just right was important. 

This was a tough shot - a good red stag stopped to take one last look back up the spur to see if the smelly human was still there. Neck shot was the only option in the scrub. Shot angle was >30° down, about 140-150m. Something that is also on autopilot is remembering to aim slightly low on the steeply angled closer shots. My .308 Win POI is 2.5” low at 100m (200m zero) and I’ve pretty much got this hard-coded when snap shooting, again thanks to “dinner plate” practice on the gong.

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## Bagheera

Good shot Flyblown. That’s flying !

Before we can fly we have to be able to dance
Before we can dance we have to be able to run
Before we can run we have to be able to walk

Once we have our equipment sorted, then some familiarity with the 4 basic unsupported positions and bench resting, we need to start trying  those awkward positions and being inspired by people who have solutions to them. And passing on tips. Sometimes a technique can give unexpected stabilty (like kneeling with a rest but the left elbow hanging in space and the right keen up with right elbow resting on it which you see occasionally at gong shoots) and other times an apparently unpromising technique like using a none too tight sling for sitting like you described or standing does translate to higher scores on paper even if it still feels abit wobbly.  Unsupported shooting can give good results in training bit can be a bit fragile under stress.

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## Tahr

> I’ve been practicing shooting in various sitting / standing positions as the grass is so long, prone shooting is a non-starter. Some gong practice shooting uncomfortable positions has really helped fine tune the setup.
> 
> What I have found is that the DPT Hunter chassis with a wide sling around the left forearm and left elbow on my left knee, right hand on the pistol grip and right elbow on my right knee which is supported by the sloping ground, produces a very stable position with which to take some difficult shots. 
> 
> Recently I’ve been hunting hard country on shitty gradients where long grass / scrub and bad lies make prone shooting impossible. I’ve really appreciated getting the sitting position sorted as its pretty much on autopilot now. Getting the sling length just right was important. 
> 
> This was a tough shot - a good red stag stopped to take one last look back up the spur to see if the smelly human was still there. Neck shot was the only option in the scrub. Shot angle was >30° down, about 140-150m. Something that is also on autopilot is remembering to aim slightly low on the steeply angled closer shots. My .308 Win POI is 2.5” low at 100m (200m zero) and I’ve pretty much got this hard-coded when snap shooting, again thanks to “dinner plate” practice on the gong.
> 
> Attachment 213749


Nice. 2.5" low at 100??

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## Flyblown

> Nice. 2.5" low at 100??


Clearly not!

 :15 8 212:

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## Ross Nolan

Should have been poa not poi (point of aim vs point of impact)

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## TARGEX

If you want to really see your offhand (standing) shooting improve have a go at silhouette shooting.
A club day of silhouettes at Tokoroa is 4x rounds of 40 shots on the silhouettes repeated the next day.
All up 320 shots standing in two days plus whatever practise shots you use.
That's all standing with 22rf.
You'll be surprised what you can do standing with your after a while.
It's a lot of fun. :Have A Nice Day:

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## Moa Hunter

> I’ve been practicing shooting in various sitting / standing positions as the grass is so long, prone shooting is a non-starter. Some gong practice shooting uncomfortable positions has really helped fine tune the setup.
> 
> What I have found is that the DPT Hunter chassis with a wide sling around the left forearm and left elbow on my left knee, right hand on the pistol grip and right elbow on my right knee which is supported by the sloping ground, produces a very stable position with which to take some difficult shots. 
> 
> Recently I’ve been hunting hard country on shitty gradients where long grass / scrub and bad lies make prone shooting impossible. I’ve really appreciated getting the sitting position sorted as its pretty much on autopilot now. Getting the sling length just right was important. 
> 
> This was a tough shot - a good red stag stopped to take one last look back up the spur to see if the smelly human was still there. Neck shot was the only option in the scrub. Shot angle was >30° down, about 140-150m. Something that is also on autopilot is remembering to aim slightly low on the steeply angled closer shots. My .308 Win POI is 2.5” low at 100m (200m zero) and I’ve pretty much got this hard-coded when snap shooting, again thanks to “dinner plate” practice on the gong.
> 
> Attachment 213749


Good shot for a downhill, tricky.
I like sitting as a good position too, cant master kneeling at all. 
Another one to try is to lay your mustering stick against a bush or tree at 45 degrees and shoot across it. Can be used laying onto a soft springy bush / hebe etc for a surprisingly solid rest

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## Husky1600

Another good rest in long grass is your day pack standing rather than lying down - so long as it has some of those rigid stays in the back of it. And if its got a bit of gear in the bottom it also helps more.

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## Tahr

This is an American made Outdoorsman pack frame that I use in the tussock. Its an excellent platform to shoot off, especially steep down hill. The frame is stiff nylon sort of stuff and there is a notch in the frame to rest the rifle stock on when shooting. There are several bag sizes you can attach or just use a meat shelf.
I mainly use the small bag in the bottom pic so the set up can be used for day hunting. Ive also got a 70 litre bag, and it takes about 3 minutes to change the bags. A wonderful set up.

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## Flyblown

The “sitting position” extra-long Harris bipod I bought recently worked really well too. Went out for a quick goat cull before the weather packed up and did well with the .223, sitting comfortably on a settee cushion. 

Yes, I know. Unfortunately my coccyx takes such a beating on the quad on these rough bloody tracks that after a while sitting on hard uncomfortable ground becomes sufficiently unpleasant to resort to ridiculous comforts. Nick it off the couch when no one is looking and stuff it in the pack. Easy!

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## Flyblown

> This is an American made Outdoorsman pack frame that I use in the tussock. Its an excellent platform to shoot off, especially steep down hill. The frame is stiff nylon sort of stuff and there is a notch in the frame to rest the rifle stock on when shooting. There are several bag sizes you can attach or just use a meat shelf.
> I mainly use the small bag in the bottom pic so the set up can be used for day hunting. Ive also got a 70 litre bag, and it takes about 3 minutes to change the bags. A wonderful set up.


Clearly designed by a hunter with other hunters in mind.

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