# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  . 284 Winchester

## Beavis

School me on this cartridge. I'm considering putting a Criterion Pre fit onto my long action Sako 75. I understand you can get pretty good speed with these chopped back short? I'd be looking at cutting to 16" and running 140-150gr bullets. Anything need to be considered? Do you need to mod the magazine to get them to feed?

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## Rated M for Magnum

Check out this guys experience with a short 7mm, not a Sako I know but will help you see where you are going

https://youtu.be/Vs_neOvEiLE

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## Nick-D

No feeding issues or mods needed on my tikka, it's a fat case but not saum level fat.

Mine is at like 18. 5 inches and runs the 162 eld m at 2750 over win 760 without pushing hard. I have some rl16 coming that I think I will be able to hit 2800 with.

It's been a hammer on everything I've shot with it out to 600 odd meters.

Recoil is there but not uncomfortable, does tend to hop around when shooting from a bipod so requires good technique to spot shots. 

I personally wouldn't go lighter than 150's in it, should still be able to push them over 2700 in the 16 inch barrel

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## chainsaw

excellent choice of calibre.  :Thumbsup:  With LA Sako you should have no issues with seating depth and mag fit. As stated above the 284 cartridge has very little taper ("fat") and this can cause feeding issues in some mags. Not sure about the Sako 75?  you might have to open up the lips slightly if you find feed issues.  Personally I would not go shorter than 18in as I like to retain as many fps as possible.  
I'd also suggest running a bigger pill, like 160 TMK's or 162 ELDM's for everything - up close to way out there.

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## Beetroot

@GWH has a few 284s built on Tikkas and has had great success.




> No feeding issues or mods needed on my tikka, it's a fat case but not saum level fat.
> 
> Mine is at like 18. 5 inches and runs the 162 eld m at 2750 over win 760 without pushing hard. I have some rl16 coming that I think I will be able to hit 2800 with.
> 
> It's been a hammer on everything I've shot with it out to 600 odd meters.
> 
> Recoil is there but not uncomfortable, does tend to hop around when shooting from a bipod so requires good technique to spot shots. 
> 
> I personally wouldn't go lighter than 150's in it, should still be able to push them over 2700 in the 16 inch barrel


I take it you are using it as a long action rather than short action (I know tikkas are only one action length)? 
I'm thinking of building a 284 on a short action Tikka (to use CTR magazines) but it seems a short barrel and short action seems to limit the performance and may be better off going 7mm08.

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## Nick-D

> @GWH has a few 284s built on Tikkas and has had great success.
> 
> 
> 
> I take it you are using it as a long action rather than short action (I know tikkas are only one action length)? 
> I'm thinking of building a 284 on a short action Tikka (to use CTR magazines) but it seems a short barrel and short action seems to limit the performance and may be better off going 7mm08.


What's the internal length of the ctr mags? Throated and seated a bit deaper it will still piss all over 7mm08 velocities. Could run a la bolt stop still and open up the mags a bit?

My eldm coal is about 3.1 at 20 thou jump

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## McNotty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuNgM6LRjgo&t=3s

check out @stagstalker

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## Beetroot

> What's the internal length of the ctr mags? Throated and seated a bit deaper it will still piss all over 7mm08 velocities. Could run a la bolt stop still and open up the mags a bit?
> 
> My eldm coal is about 3.1 at 20 thou jump
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


2.980" from memory, just under 3".

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## superdiver

284 is the tits. I had a 19" one running 150gr sgks doing 2770 with a mild load of 2209 and shot deer out to 460yds. Knocked it off its feet still and bugger all recoil and noise with the dpt suppressor. When I ran the 162 eldms the gun was lethal out to 800+ but if I kept the rifle I would've kept the gameking load as it was so good.

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## gundoc

If you are using a long action why not just rebarrel it in .280 Remington and avoid all the magazine hassles, after all, the .284 Winchester was developed to duplicate the .280 performance in a short action.  I suspect that the .280 might well be a tad better than the .284 with modern powders.  Of course that difference would only be of interest to deer that can read a ballistics chart!

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## Nick-D

> 2.980" from memory, just under 3".


Go for it man, will still be a super usefull round, just get it throated accordingly

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## Beetroot

> Go for it man, will still be a super usefull round, just get it throated accordingly


Thats just what I wanted to hear.  :Thumbsup: 

I think sticking to 162gr would be the way to go rather than trying to stuff a 180gr into the short magazine.

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## Kudu

Mine is in a Remington Short action with a 19" barrel. At the moment I shoot the 150gn Nosler ballistic tips doing 2860. 

Although Nick personally would not go lighter than 150gn, I would. My favourite load was using the Berger 140gn VLD with RL 17. They were going at 3040 fps and were a bloody lethal load. I only stopped using that as I could not get hold of any more RL 17.

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## Puffin

> I suspect that the .280 might well be a tad better than the .284 with modern powders.


Recently I plugged in some numbers to see what difference QuickLOAD calculated in muzzle velocities between the .280AI and the .284Win,  as I'm also thinking of making a change, from the one to the other. 

The inputs kept constant were: 162gr Hornady Amax, AR2209, 24" barrel, 6mm of shank engagement with the neck, the powder weight set for a simulated 60kPSI peak in both cases.

The .280AI required 59.9gr of powder for a 2920 ft/sec MV.
The .284Win took 55.0gr for 2870 ft/sec.

Close on a 5 grain difference for 50 ft/sec then. With the simulation tweaked to shorten the barrel to 16", then the predicted velocities were 2600 ft/sec and 2580 ft/sec respectively;  the difference between the two cases was predicted to have dropped to only 20 ft/sec, while overall the loss of 8 inches had knocked the MVs back by around 300 ft/sec.  

If the powder is changed to AR2213sc - a powder that might be considered as having a more suitable burn rate for the case capacities and bullet weight being simulated - then with the 24" barrel, and still 60kPSI peak, the predicted velocities are both slightly more, but not by much:

The .280AI required 62.9gr for 2960 ft/sec.
The .284Win took 57.6gr for 2900 ft/sec.

The difference between them for both charge weight and predicted muzzle velocity with the slower AR2213sc powder remains much the same as with AR2209.  A shortened 16" barrel then gave the predicted velocities of 2630 ft/sec and 2600 ft/sec, again the _Bush Pig_ length of barrel cuts what little velocity advantage there was with the larger .280AI case over the .284Win in half.


Having run a number of barrels in 280AI over the years I thought the larger case would be streets ahead, but if QuickLOAD's predictions bear out, this may not be observed. At this stage I haven't cross-checked against our .284Win data.

As far as the suitability of receiver and magazine lengths, the 6mm of shank in the necks for the old Amax used in this simulation gave CoLs of 89.3mm (3.52") for the .280AI, and 79.9mm (3.15")  for the .284Win. While that may well be a representative CoL for a good match to many .280AI chambers, reamers for the .284Win can often be found throated long for 180gr Bergers (intended for competition use), and the resulting CoL for bullets positioned anywhere near the rifling may be quite a bit longer than this 3.15" figure, meaning single loading for short actions. 
A common second problem arises if the intention was to use lighter bullets, in that there will be no option other than huge jumps on these for the necks to have any sort of reasonable grip on the shanks. We've also had neck clearance problems - again there appears to be considerable variation between reamers, and in the neck thickness for the different sources for brass. I think it can be safely stated, and without fear of contradiction, that the .284Win is a cartridges where it pays to check the reamer for suitability for the intended application before spinning the lathe.

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## chainsaw

Interesting comps @Puffin on 284 vs 280ai  - my real word experience aligns closely with the QL model data but with different powders needed to get optimal results.   I did a lot of background research into 284 vs 280ai and initially went with 280ai as an “alpine tops rifle”.  Partly due to higher top end potential in fps & that partly due to fact that published load data on 284 is scant and very conservative.   Anyhooo 1st built a 280ai 24in bbl on REM700 action – load dev eventually ended up with N560 pushing 162 AMAX at 2980 fps. Have also built several 284’s  - 2 with 20in bbls  giving 2830 – 2850 fps with 160 TMK’s using RL17 or Superformance.  And a 284 with 22in bbl that runs 2930 fps with RL17 pushing 162 AMAX’s.
In all cases these loads were not at pressure “max”, but at safe loads giving sub 0.5moa grps – generally a smidge under  where pressure signs started showing up.
Yes, the 280ai has the edge but not by much and you really need to stay with a 24in or longer bbl to ring the max out of them, imo.  
The 284 cartridge is inherently very efficient and certainly punches above its weight. If you’re after a shorter bbl 7mm for bush bashing then its ticks all the boxes, just be realistic about the drop in speed potential once you chop the bbl

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## Tahr

> Interesting comps @Puffin on 284 vs 280ai  - my real word experience aligns closely with the QL model data but with different powders needed to get optimal results.   I did a lot of background research into 284 vs 280ai and initially went with 280ai as an “alpine tops rifle”.  Partly due to higher top end potential in fps & that partly due to fact that published load data on 284 is scant and very conservative.   Anyhooo 1st built a 280ai 24in bbl on REM700 action – load dev eventually ended up with N560 pushing 162 AMAX at 2980 fps. Have also built several 284’s  - 2 with 20in bbls  giving 2830 – 2850 fps with 160 TMK’s using RL17 or Superformance.  And a 284 with 22in bbl that runs 2930 fps with RL17 pushing 162 AMAX’s.
> In all cases these loads were not at pressure “max”, but at safe loads giving sub 0.5moa grps – generally a smidge under  where pressure signs started showing up.
> Yes, the 280ai has the edge but not by much and you really need to stay with a 24in or longer bbl to ring the max out of them, imo.  
> The 284 cartridge is inherently very efficient and certainly punches above its weight. If you’re after a shorter bbl 7mm for bush bashing then its ticks all the boxes, just be realistic about the drop in speed potential once you chop the bbl


 @chainsaw I wonder if you could be so kind as to PM me your R17 loads for @craigc. Of course we understand that we will need to start a few grains under your load. 22" barrel using 162AMAX and 150 ELDX. We are fortunate that we have a few pots of R17.

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## chainsaw

@Tahr  - will do.

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## Micky Duck

I find it passingly strange that when talking .284 calibre the .280 in particular is often made into AI form and spouted as the ducks nuts,yet Im begiggered if Ive heard of anyone that I can recall creating a .270AI........maybe its a case of not mucking around with a good thing LOL.

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## Beetroot

> I find it passingly strange that when talking .284 calibre the .280 in particular is often made into AI form and spouted as the ducks nuts,yet Im begiggered if Ive heard of anyone that I can recall creating a .270AI........maybe its a case of not mucking around with a good thing LOL.


It's because only fudds are interested in the 270 and AIing a cartridge is beyond them.

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## Spitfire

Some very interesting comparisons puffin. If we are comparing the improved version of the .280, perhaps we should compare it to the .284 Shehane? I think your figures show that the .284 is pretty efficient. I spent a lot of time reading before I decided on mine.

Either way, both are great all-rounders for all NZ game.

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## GWH

I've got a couple of 284 wins.

Both rechambered tikka 708s.

One is a T3 cut to 17" with DPT magnum suppressor. Long mag and bolt stop.

The barrel was throated long to suit 162s seated out in the neck.

I run 162 Amaxs at around 2700 fps which kills really well near and far.  I use H414 powder.

The other one is an older tikka M595 with a factory length 22" barrel.  Also throated long.

I always just use to run 150gr NBT to fit the fairy short magazine at just shy of 3k which worked really well. 

I've recently fitted a T2 brake to this barrel and am experimenting with 180gr eld-m's.

They shoot super well with IMR 7828ssc at 2760 fps.

But have just this morning shot a ladder using RE26.

These are the results.

They're getting along pretty well.

56gr   2789 fps
56.5.  2820
57.     2841
57.5. 2859
58.    2869
58.5  2906 (click at top of bolt lift and very flat primer)

Looks like it's going to group well in the middle of the range around 2850 fps.

Run the numbers on the 180 eldm at that speed,  pretty awesome performance from a 22" 284.

My chamber has a very long throat and I can seat the 180s out nice and long.  COAL of 3.257 inch.

Don't go trying these loads with a shorter throated barrel.  Start lower and work up.

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## Spitfire

Interesting that you wound up on 58 grains of RE26. I’m on 58 grains of 2213SC at 2840 fps from a 22” barrel with 162 ELD-X. I have some RE26 and 180 ELD-Ms on hand, but that’s what I’m shooting out of my 7RM.

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## Nick-D

> I've got a couple of 284 wins.
> 
> Both rechambered tikka 708s.
> 
> One is a T3 cut to 17" with DPT magnum suppressor. Long mag and bolt stop.
> 
> The barrel was throated long to suit 162s seated out in the neck.
> 
> I run 162 Amaxs at around 2700 fps which kills really well near and far.  I use H414 powder.
> ...


Fuck that's impressive speed/ballistics. What twist rate? Standard 1:9.5 tikka? 

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## Beetroot

> Fuck that's impressive speed/ballistics. What twist rate? Standard 1:9.5 tikka? 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


Agreed, my mate is just a touch over 3000fps from a 28" barrel using RL17.

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## GWH

> Fuck that's impressive speed/ballistics. What twist rate? Standard 1:9.5 tikka? 
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk


Yes factory 9.5 twist tikka barrel.

Yeah the velocity and corresponding ballistics with that bullet are certainly quite impressive from the humble little 284 and 22 inch tube.

It certainly gives the 284 some legs. 

Crazy stuff!

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## wsm junkie

There must be something to these tikka 9.5 twist barrels.
This is the results of my dabble with the 180 eldm's in my 7mm08ai

Load development



And a group at 600yds with the chosen load doing 2650fps

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## Rated M for Magnum

> There must be something to these tikka 9.5 twist barrels.
> This is the results of my dabble with the 180 eldm's in my 7mm08ai
> 
> Load development
> 
> Attachment 129941
> 
> And a group at 600yds with the chosen load doing 2650fps
> 
> Attachment 129942


What powder you using for that one? I have a Tikka t3 7mm08 as well and I've only tried the 162 eldm with 2208, awesome accuracy at 2600 fps. Always Keen to try new things haha

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## wsm junkie

> What powder you using for that one? I have a Tikka t3 7mm08 as well and I've only tried the 162 eldm with 2208, awesome accuracy at 2600 fps. Always Keen to try new things haha


AR2209

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## GWH

> What powder you using for that one? I have a Tikka t3 7mm08 as well and I've only tried the 162 eldm with 2208, awesome accuracy at 2600 fps. Always Keen to try new things haha


2209 should give you a bit more velocity with 162s than 2208 I would think.

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## Puffin

Further to my earlier post, I've since cross-checked several dimensions on the Manson and JGS regular SAAMI reamer drawings. 
The neck diameter runs from 0.323" to 322".  Necked up but unturned 6.5-.284 Lapua brass measured 0.3120 - 0.3126" loaded, so that is already 10 thou expansion on firing.  If the brass is then turned and tidied up for a donut then 0.310 is about right. That is quite a lot of to-and-fro for each firing/resizing cycle. Online reports indicate that the Norma .284Win brass has thicker neck walls than either the Winchester or necked-up Lapua brass at 0.316" give or take. This might be reason enough to use Norma brass in a standard chamber, but also a potential safety issue if the chamber is cut with a non-standard neck.

The SAAMI profile does NOT include parallel sided freebore. It tapers down from 0.290" ahead of the neck at 47' 33"  (0.7925°) in one continuous freebore/leade. At that angle is narrows to the nominal bullet diameter 0.284" at 0.217" ahead of the commencement of this profile, so this figure can be substituted roughly for freebore. It looks like many here are getting good accuracy from their .284s, but based on this I don't imagine many of those bullets that aren't 180gr are out near the lands.

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## GWH

> Further to my earlier post, I've since cross-checked several dimensions on the Manson and JGS regular SAAMI reamer drawings. 
> The neck diameter runs from 0.323" to 322".  Necked up but unturned 6.5-.284 Lapua brass measured 0.3120 - 0.3126" loaded, so that is already 10 thou expansion on firing.  If the brass is then turned and tidied up for a donut then 0.310 is about right. That is quite a lot of to-and-fro for each firing/resizing cycle. Online reports indicate that the Norma .284Win brass has thicker neck walls than either the Winchester or necked-up Lapua brass at 0.316" give or take. This might be reason enough to use Norma brass in a standard chamber, but also a potential safety issue if the chamber is cut with a non-standard neck.
> 
> The SAAMI profile does NOT include parallel sided freebore. It tapers down from 0.290" ahead of the neck at 47' 33"  (0.7925°) in one continuous freebore/leade. At that angle is narrows to the nominal bullet diameter 0.284" at 0.217" ahead of the commencement of this profile, so this figure can be substituted roughly for freebore. It looks like many here are getting good accuracy from their .284s, but based on this I don't imagine many of those bullets that aren't 180gr are out near the lands.


Yes that all sounds about right.

My M595 was rechambered a long time ago before my ownership.

It has a .322 neck, I'm running new WW brass in that which measures .313 on a loaded round. So yeah it will be working the necks alot, very important to annual.

When I first got the rifle it came with some fired WW brass I noticed some of the necks were split or split after I fired them once or twice.

When I got my t3 rechambered I got gunworks to use their other reamer with a .317 neck and a different lead angle.

In this rifle I have used necked up 6.5-284 Lapua brass which I neck turn to remove the donut that forms after expanding. A loaded round of this measures .311

I always remember reading that the 284 win doesn't like too tighter neck clearances.

In loading for both rifles I've always found that I cannot run the powder charges that I believe I should be able to in the barrel with the .317 neck. 

I don't know if it's due to the lower neck clearance or the different lead angle.

Whereas the old M595 with the big sloppy neck has always been able to run the charges that Quickload tells me I can without seeing pressure signs too soon on a ladder.

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## Puffin

> ...doesn't like too tighter neck clearances.


From my online searching on this 284win-specific topic  (embarrassingly extensive) the anecdotal reports were for an effect on accuracy rather than early pressure signs.  < 0.003" ( 1.5 thou each side) gave flyers that were absent for larger clearances.
.004"-0.006" was thought to be a good middle ground between avoiding this effect and working the brass unnecessarily hard. 
So, yes, at 0.006" I think it might be something else. What were the signs in the Lapua brass in the T3 please that led you to call a halt to the load development ?  Ladder? I'm not sure I follow that. What about the cases dimensionally and extraction?

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## GWH

> From my online searching on this 284win-specific topic  (embarrassingly extensive) the anecdotal reports were for an effect on accuracy rather than early pressure signs.  < 0.003" ( 1.5 thou each side) gave flyers that were absent for larger clearances.
> .004"-0.006" was thought to be a good middle ground between avoiding this effect and working the brass unnecessarily hard. 
> So, yes, at 0.006" I think it might be something else. What were the signs in the Lapua brass in the T3 please that led you to call a halt to the load development ?  Ladder? I'm not sure I follow that. What about the cases dimensionally and extraction?


Heavy bolt lift and ejector marks on brass at charge levels lower than I expected the max would be.

After I neck turned a bit more things improved and I could run higher charge weights.  But I still can't run it where I thought I'd be able to.

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## Rock

> Yes that all sounds about right.
> 
> My M595 was rechambered a long time ago before my ownership.
> 
> It has a .322 neck, I'm running new WW brass in that which measures .313 on a loaded round. So yeah it will be working the necks alot, very important to annual.
> 
> When I first got the rifle it came with some fired WW brass I noticed some of the necks were split or split after I fired them once or twice.
> 
> When I got my t3 rechambered I got gunworks to use their other reamer with a .317 neck and a different lead angle.
> ...


My 284win is an ex tikka 20 inches 7mm 08 barrel with .322 neck.  Work up to  53.3gn win760 powder  with 162 eldx and Winchester brass, I only get 2690 fts which seems on a slow side of velocity lucky it is accurate. .    @GWH If you can shine some lights on it I would much appreciate it.

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## chainsaw

Try RL17 or Superformance powder, u should get 150 fps with 160-162 gn pills

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## GWH

> Try RL17 or Superformance powder, u should get 150 fps with 160-162 gn pills


IMR 7828ssc also goes well in 284 with heavy for cal bullets.

I've tried all of the above in mine,  got higher velocity with some but the grouping wasn't as good as my h414 load.

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## Spitfire

> My 284win is an ex tikka 20 inches 7mm 08 barrel with .322 neck.  Work up to  53.3gn win760 powder  with 162 eldx and Winchester brass, I only get 2690 fts which seems on a slow side of velocity lucky it is accurate. .    @GWH If you can shine some lights on it I would much appreciate it.


I ran mine at a very slow but very accurate 2650 fps with 162s and 2213sc. Still killed everything stone dead.

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## Rock

> I ran mine at a very slow but very accurate 2650 fps with 162s and 2213sc. Still killed everything stone dead.


What’s your longest kill with it?

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## stagstalker

Anyone tried the likes of H414 or Rel 17 with lighter projectiles like the 150 ELD-X or Berger 140 VLD for example?

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## GWH

> Anyone tried the likes of H414 or Rel 17 with lighter projectiles like the 150 ELD-X or Berger 140 VLD for example?


With the 150gr NBT I use to run in my 22 " 284 I only used a stiff charge of 2209,  2970 fps and shot really well. 

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## Micky Duck

> I ran mine at a very slow but very accurate 2650 fps with 162s and 2213sc. Still killed everything stone dead.


so it was doing what a .280 should do all day long without any fluffing around.......

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## Nick-D

> Mine is in a Remington Short action with a 19" barrel. At the moment I shoot the 150gn Nosler ballistic tips doing 2860. 
> 
> Although Nick personally would not go lighter than 150gn, I would. My favourite load was using the Berger 140gn VLD with RL 17. They were going at 3040 fps and were a bloody lethal load. I only stopped using that as I could not get hold of any more RL 17.


Makes sense in a short action for sure. Damn good bullet that 140 vld. Killed a few things in the old 7mm08 with it

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## Kudu

> Anyone tried the likes of H414 or Rel 17 with lighter projectiles like the 150 ELD-X or Berger 140 VLD for example?


Yup...3040fps using RL17 and the 140gn VLD. Thats with a 20" barrel.

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## Seventenths

I've had a .284 Win for the past few years where it was a reamed out 7mm-08 T3 by Gunworks who did a dam fine job. The barrel was cut back to 16 inches with a DPT suppressor and that rifle simply just shoots. I've always run 150 gr Sierra (#1913) with AR2209 which give me a 2 inch grouping at 300 mtrs with some necked up 6.5/284 brass.

I haven't tried any heavier projectiles as I always wanted to limit myself with this setup to 150's and I've always run AR2209 as I wanted some RE17 but that powder was just hard to obtain, perhaps supply for it now is different but I've also heard mixed reports on that powder being temperature sensitive.

With my loads I've shot heavy bodied Red stags out to 300 mtrs dropping them like a sack of the proverbial and even knocked over a Bull Thar last year out to 420 mtres but I also found the 150's were just a bit too heavy for Fallow where the projectile would pass through an animal not dumping all of that energy into the deer or expanding creating that desired bullet channel so I figured a lighter projectile for Fallow is more desireable. On Sika they were fine, certainly a large exit hole and a blood trail a blind man could follow.

When I initially tested my .284 loads I was getting 2970 fps but I later found I had a dodgy chronograph and later on when I tested with a lab radar I found my loads were going 2570 fps which I consider slow but still deadly!

I've done some other playing around with results as below all tested with a lab radar:

.284 Win, Federal Large Primer, 150 gr Sierra
53 gr RE17 = 2693 fps
54 gr RE17 = 2797 fps
55 gr RE17 = 2871 fps
56 gr RE17 = 2934 fps

53 gr AR2209 = 2570 fps
54 gr AR2209 = 2616 fps
55 gr AR2209 = 2675 fps

Accuracy was not as good as what AR2209 would give me but perhaps with some playing around with seating depth or another projectile in the 150 gr range such as a 150 gr BT the accuracy would improve?

I also considered switching down to a 140 gr projectile and looked on the net and read somewhere of an American hunter who swore by his .284 with a 140 gr partition projectiles that he hunted all of North America's game extensively with so I tried some 140 BT's which I had on hand and the results are as follows:

.284 Win, Federal Large Primer, 140 gr Ballistic Tip
54 gr RE17 = 2812 fps
55 gr RE17 = 2894 fps
56 gr RE17 = 2958 fps

Again accuracy wasn't as good as the my main load but groupings were still around the 1.3 inch from memory.

I've owned a .280 Rem (first in Sako AV action & second in a T3) before and between the two I find the .284 better as it can be run on a shorter barrel where as the .280 Rem needs that longer barrel, the .284 is also a more versatile cartridge in the Tikka actions which is what most people are running them in but that's just my opinion and experience on the two.

If I was to build another .284 I wouldn't go to a 16 inch barrel. My minimum would be 18 inches just so I could have that little bit more speed. 

Powders to try have always been AR2209, next is Superformance and the best for speed is RE17 

What I plan for the near future is to swap out my 16 inch barrel and putting on a longer 20 inch barrel as we now live here in the South where I'll continue to run 150 Sierras but I'm also keen on a good 140 gr load so I have been pondering the thought of a Berger 140 VLD which I might just have to try.

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## Kudu

....at the end of the day though I love the .284, but a mate has sort of made it redundant. He has a load now (Not sure what recipe yet) that is accurate and shoots a 150gn ELD at 2900 out of a 7mm-08. With those figures I'm wondering what's the point of the .284!!....  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Puffin

> ....found I had a dodgy chronograph...


150gr@2900 ft/sec from a 7mm-08 with anything less than a flagpole for a barrel sounds a bit like this.   :Sad: 
The 11gr more water capacity in the .284Win has got to count for something.

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## Spitfire

> Whats your longest kill with it?  ��


340m steel uphill shot on a big red stag.

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## stagstalker

> Yup...3040fps using RL17 and the 140gn VLD. Thats with a 20" barrel.


 @Kudu how did those 140s go up close at that speed? Still work alright on reds? Mine is 17 so would be a bit slower.

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## stagstalker

> ....at the end of the day though I love the .284, but a mate has sort of made it redundant. He has a load now (Not sure what recipe yet) that is accurate and shoots a 150gn ELD at 2900 out of a 7mm-08. With those figures I'm wondering what's the point of the .284!!....


Because it will do it better! and its still cooler haha.

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## Kudu

> @Kudu how did those 140s go up close at that speed? Still work alright on reds? Mine is 17” so would be a bit slower.


Mint. I'll send you a link when I get home to one of my videos that shows the damage they do.

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## chainsaw

> Anyone tried the likes of H414 or Rel 17 with lighter projectiles like the 150 ELD-X or Berger 140 VLD for example?


Two different 284s with 150 ELDx and RL17.
22 bbl TF on Tikka sweet spot was 2980 fps
20 bbl on Weatherby MKV ultralight 2900 fps

7mm08 RL16 22in bbl 150 ELDx 2750 fps.

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## superdiver

I loved my 284, definitely a cool calibre as SS says but when I did load development for a mates 18" 708 and got it shooting the 162eldx at 2660 shooting sub moa using less than 40grs of powder it made me wonder why I bothered haha

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## GWH

> I loved my 284, definitely a cool calibre as SS says but when I did load development for a mates 18" 708 and got it shooting the 162eldx at 2660 shooting sub moa using less than 40grs of powder it made me wonder why I bothered haha


What powder John?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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## superdiver

Will message you as it was a warm load...

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## Rock river arms hunter

160gr TMKs at 2830fps out of my 284.

As I own a 308 already I could never justify a 7-08.

However out of interest both 308 and 284 are similar weight, same recoil pad, same length barrel etc.

The 284 recoils significantly less than the 308. 

Although I find myself leaving the the 308 in the safe more often than not these days as the 284 is just such a honey

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## cameronjackwhite

> 160gr TMKs at 2830fps out of my 284.
> 
> As I own a 308 already I could never justify a 7-08.
> 
> However out of interest both 308 and 284 are similar weight, same recoil pad, same length barrel etc.
> 
> The 284 recoils significantly less than the 308. 
> 
> Although I find myself leaving the the 308 in the safe more often than not these days as the 284 is just such a honey


+1 had 160tmks doing 2810, regret selling my 284 and wont be without one for long. My favourite caliber closely followed by the almighty 260

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## Fisherman

> +1 had 160tmks doing 2810, regret selling my 284 and wont be without one for long. My favourite caliber closely followed by the almighty 260


I'm shooting stupidly small groups at 600 yards with that laser...162 eldm at 2800...recoil so gentle I watch every round arrive on target...perfect really

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## Beetroot

> +1 had 160tmks doing 2810, regret selling my 284 and wont be without one for long. My favourite caliber closely followed by the almighty 260


I'm a 260 lover and thinking of making the jump to the 284 also.
Was wanting to run the 284 on a short action to use Tikka CTR magazines, but running the numbers is appear that the performance of a 162gr vs a 140/147gr will be very similar ballistically with the only advantage to the 284 being more energy down range at the cost of more recoil than the 260.

The 284 seems to really shine ballistically with the 180gr pills, other wise it doesn't seem to stand to far above the 260/Creedmoor range of cartridges (ignoring energy down range).

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## Spitfire

You will be limited running a .284 on a short action. It will work, but you will not be able to run 180s and 162s will likely need to be seated deep.

.260 is a great cartridge but in a different class to the .284 Win. 162s at well over 2800 fps is well above what a 7-08 or .260 are capable of (without primer popping loads). GWH and Seventenths have a ton of experience with .284 and are getting great velocities with 160 and 180 class projectiles in shortish barrels. I’m running mine at 2740 fps with 162 ELD-X and could go faster but it’s a very accurate and consistent load.

Cheers

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## stevodog

I had a short action 284 and found it best mag fitted with 150gr sgk or 160gr speer btsp. This was a good place to be for hunting applications but as above, need a long or medium action for mag fitting the longies

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## Beetroot

> You will be limited running a .284 on a short action. It will work, but you will not be able to run 180s and 162s will likely need to be seated deep.
> 
> .260 is a great cartridge but in a different class to the .284 Win. 162s at well over 2800 fps is well above what a 7-08 or .260 are capable of (without primer popping loads). GWH and Seventenths have a ton of experience with .284 and are getting great velocities with 160 and 180 class projectiles in shortish barrels. I’m running mine at 2740 fps with 162 ELD-X and could go faster but it’s a very accurate and consistent load.
> 
> Cheers


I agree that 284 is a step up in performance from the 260, but it appears that squishing it in a short action limits it a reasonable bit.
Whereas the 284 needs bullets seating deep in the case in a short action the 260/creedmoor has ample room to load them out meaning you can run 140gr bullets at much the same velocities as the 284 running 162gr bullets.

The 284 will of course have more energy on target, but the 140gr 6.5mm and 162gr 7mm bullets have very similar BC and produce much the same ballistics.

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## Spitfire

Fair enough, but in a long action ...............

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## Nick-D

> I had a short action 284 and found it best mag fitted with 150gr sgk or 160gr speer btsp. This was a good place to be for hunting applications but as above, need a long or medium action for mag fitting the longies


Hes running the CTR mags which are longer COAL than a standard medium/SA mag. Should still be pretty handy with 162's

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## Spitfire

Sounds good. Best of luck Beetroot.

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## wayno

I see from Gunworks site that they have 2 reamers of different sizes one is a 316 neck the other has a 318 neck . So if you where to rechamber which one would you use and why ? I wonder why no chambers it in a factory rifle ? its darn near a perfect all rounder as far as case size goes ,enough grunt with out being to much .

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## cameronjackwhite

.318 neck eliminated the donut issue from necking up 6.5x284 I believe. Pretty sure @GWH knows more on the subject

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## Puffin

*Some related snippets of information on the .284 Winchester*

From time to time I see mention of .284 reamers that are supposedly ground to cut chambers specifically for use with necked-up 6.5-.284 brass. Having looked into this I can find no evidence of any dimensional differences between the bodies of the two cases that would require this. 

Below are the drawings taken from the QuickLOAD library showing just the metric dimensions for comparison. Other than the change in chamfer angle on the bottom edge of the rim there are no other differences below the necks that can be identified. 





Here is part of the drawing of the .284 Winchester SAAMI reamer offered by  Manson Precision where I have added some of the metric equivalent dimensions. The figures are the same as are given on the JGS drawing for their .284 Win SAAMI reamer also. The dimensions here may be cross-referenced to the case drawing dimensions.  If a chamber was machined using this reamer to put the bolt face as indicated, then a standard case as above would have a 0.005” (0.12mm) crush on the necks.     



Of particular interest is that the freebore and throat in the SAAMI standard chambering are combined into a single continuous taper running at 0.79°. This differs from the more typical 1.5° leade ahead of a cylindrical freebore. The drawing identifies that at this pitch, the diameter narrows to 0.284" at a distance 0.217" (5.51mm) ahead of the end of the neck transition - this being the touch point for the bullet. Also of note is the 1/8" radius on the neck shoulder junction (this might ease any donut issue, if only slightly), and the neck diameter of 0.323" tapering to 0.322", which has previously been identified as quite large, particularly for necked-up Lapua cases that have been turned, often then measuring down at a 0.310-0.312" loaded diameter.  
If you think you have a chamber cut to this profile then from measurements on fired cases (and the CoL for just touching) the information above should be sufficient to confirm this. Maybe of interest to some?  I imagine this standard profile reamer is the most common among gunsmiths here as the neck dimensions mean it is low risk, and being off-the-shelf from most suppliers may be purchased for the lowest cost.   



Below is a reamer design from PTG, described as a 284 Norma Match #46114 that is interesting because of the comment recorded on it.  I’ve only reproduced here the detail around the front of the case and the comment, as the body & head are all standard. Dimensions all in inches this time.



The shoulder neck radius remains at one-eighth of an inch. The neck tapers slightly - presumably for extraction purposes - down to 0.3185”.  This time there is a length of more conventional freebore at the expected 0.2845” diameter. At 1.5°, the leade will narrow from this figure to the 0.284 nominal bullet diameter a further 0.0095” into the throat, which when added to the 0.208” freebore gives almost exactly the same touch point as for the previous SAAMI reamer, supporting the comment that this should be the case. Barrels so chambered will shoot better apparently.

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## Puffin

> .318 neck eliminated the donut issue from necking up 6.5x284 I believe. Pretty sure @GWH knows more on the subject


Yes, a larger diameter neck may offer a possible work-around if you are prepared to arrange your sizing gear to partially size the necks. This has often been discussed on here but perhaps is not necessarily an easy concept to grasp, so I've added some diagrams below that might be helpful:



Above is the starting situation with a donut present. 

One possibility is that the freebore may be sufficiently long to allow the bullet to be seated forward in the neck ahead of any possible interaction with the donut. This assumes that having the bullet seated right out is where you want it for jump/engagement with the rifling.  

More commonly though -  and this is particularly so for the longer VLD-style bullets - the cartridge-overall-length (CoL) has to be reduced because of the size of the rifle's magazine. Then the bullet has to be seated further down in the neck,  perhaps with the boattail pushed down into the powder column. This is where the larger neck clearance may be helpful as shown in the second diagram with the bullet in this position. 



It works in this way: on firing the neck is blown out to the available neck diameter, and with a larger diameter this will hopefully also be sufficient to expand the donut beyond the diameter of the bullet. By then only sizing back a % of the neck, the bullet may still be held, and the donut is left with the lower part of the neck -  un-sized and clear of the bullet shank as shown.

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