# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Shooting ranges

## Beaker

I'm involved with the set up/design of a new shooting (pistol and rifle - no clay/skeet) range, and am trying to capture all the design type things that allow for the most amount of users to benefit from it. Ie not being dictated by any one organisation or club, the area will be independant of any one club.

So what do people want in a shooting range/complex?

We are restricted to a no escape 100 and 200m rifle range, and no further than 200m. But what little details make for a good area to shoot in? Ie T or U shaped benchs, etc.....

Also any running type things as well. Ie 15mins shooting then can go forward, etc...

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## Kscott

Ohh where abouts ?

Personally, T shaped benches, feels nicer to sit at. Storage for gear, power is handy - shooters seem to have shit loads of gear for ranges these days  :Grin: 

Over head cover from the firing line.

For pistol, couple of plate racks and moveables are nice. Is it for IPSC, or Cowboy/NRA/ISSF ? Napier club has a nice permanent cowboy range set up with board walk and doors/windows, which still works nice for IPSC.

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## Banana

Heaps of steel

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## ebf

If possible, separate the 100 and 200 yds ranges, so the 100yds guys don't have to wait for 1 guy to go patch at 200yds.

Overhead cover that extends BEYOND the firing point, think angled rain...

Make sure your benches work for lefties, and that the stools are height adjustable

? Decent rests/bags for hire. The amount of guys I see on the local Deerstalkers range shooting off of very poor rests and basically wasting their time is pretty high.

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## Beaker

So the big things so far are –
-	1x 100m range 12m wide, with a 30x30 by 6.5m butt (so can be used for pistol and police), the outside wing wall end is in the middle of the open end of the butt, if that makes sense) 3.5m earth wing walls.  Inside wall is shared with 200m
-	1x 200m range 30m Wide (full 3.5m earth wing walls)
-	The 100 and 200 are separate ranges, sharing a wing wall to divide them, but will share a common firing line building, so can be shot independent
-	Good point on the overhang for rain.  We will have one as it will be part of the no escape calcs (armour plated), but will keep the rain in mind aswell.  Haven’t got to the detailed building and baffle design yet…..
-	9x pistol bays. Full dirt berms 5m high.  Back to back and a mix of 10m wide x 20m deep and 20mx20m, with one 20m wide and 35’ish deep range.  One of the 10m ones will have a covered shed type firing line for wet weather hard soft barstards….. and closest to the car park….
-	Site will have onsite wifi network and swipe cards to get in – no pay no working card. Wifi for competition scoring and looking at porn while waiting to shoot
-	Moving the dirt in to create the butts, wings and pistol area should start in 4 weeks or so (only about 18,000 m3)
-	Primary will be IPSC and cowboy.  Not to sure on the permanent targets/props yet.
-	Lots of steel!!! (and white paint in the maintenance budget!)
-	All of the above is sort of stage one. Stage 2 will be a indoor small bore range and hopefully combined use clubhouse.  Need to do some more design/numbers on this.
Location South Canterbury…… 

Some big questions that I have and would love photos, info etc….. are
-	Baffle designs.  Anyone have some good drawings that I could modify??? 
-	Targets for rifle.  Electronic? Who’s got what and what’s the pros and cons?
-	Wings/berms.  Has anyone put a geo fabric over the tops to slow erosion until the plants/grass takes hold?
-	Firing line building.  Any other design thoughts? (Taken on board comments about power, benches, over hang, stools,) Anyone care to share dimensions of theirs? And anything that works really well or not?
-	Indoor small bore.  Anybody built a new one recently? Ideas, good plans, etc…..

Cant share plans yet due to legal stuff, but will put some up as soon as I can.

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## Tommy

What exactly do you mean by no escape?

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## Kscott

Sounds like a bit of thought has gone in to it, nice work.

Rifle targets - are you running competition shooting only, or is it available for paid members to rock in and shoot. If so, don't worry about targets. Shooters would want their own for plinking or sighting, competition - well there's so many types should leave it to comp organisers to fulfill I reckon and the cost is zero. Target frames would be an ongoing cost, so many shooters couldn't hit the floor if they tried to shoot, but somehow are able to put a bullet in a small target frame with ease !

Don't forget there's simple/cheap options for CCTV these days, letting it run 24/7 and protecting the investment. APC have been talking about it because Steve W is mightily pissed off some shooters are setting up steel/targets in a dangerous manner (probably through ignorance rather than willfully). 

Indoor small bore - ventilation and ceiling height are the biggest challenges. Howick in Auckland has a good indoor setup with concrete, Waitakere not so as it's an older wooden shed/building so people can't shoot standing up while in the upper bays, which negates any 4P shooters...

Baffles, there's loads of video on YT from Russia IPSC, most of their stuff is shot indoors, might help ?

One other thing, loads of picnic type benches everywhere, just so people have the chance to sit down somewhere at some stage.

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## zimmer

If totally covered in mounds consider fume extraction a must for when shooting centre fire. The East Anakie rifle range at Geelong as an example is one of the most modern around with full electronics, single point shooting (shooter stay put) no matter the range, air con/fume extraction. Electronic targets are the way to go otherwise walls need to be built beside the individual ranges to allow people to go forward without closing the whole complex. Again, electronic targets a must. Enclosed tunnel would be nice.

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## Beaker

> What exactly do you mean by no escape?


No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area.  Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from  some where, to reduce the amount.... )

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## Beaker

> If totally covered in mounds consider fume extraction a must for when shooting centre fire. The East Anakie rifle range at Geelong as an example is one of the most modern around with full electronics, single point shooting (shooter stay put) no matter the range, air con/fume extraction. Electronic targets are the way to go otherwise walls need to be built beside the individual ranges to allow people to go forward without closing the whole complex. Again, electronic targets a must. Enclosed tunnel would be nice.


I like a lot of that!!!
How do they get on with brakes and big cals?

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## Beaker

> Sounds like a bit of thought has gone in to it, nice work.
> 
> Rifle targets - are you running competition shooting only, or is it available for paid members to rock in and shoot. If so, don't worry about targets. Shooters would want their own for plinking or sighting, competition - well there's so many types should leave it to comp organisers to fulfill I reckon and the cost is zero. Target frames would be an ongoing cost, so many shooters couldn't hit the floor if they tried to shoot, but somehow are able to put a bullet in a small target frame with ease !
> 
> Don't forget there's simple/cheap options for CCTV these days, letting it run 24/7 and protecting the investment. APC have been talking about it because Steve W is mightily pissed off some shooters are setting up steel/targets in a dangerous manner (probably through ignorance rather than willfully). 
> 
> Indoor small bore - ventilation and ceiling height are the biggest challenges. Howick in Auckland has a good indoor setup with concrete, Waitakere not so as it's an older wooden shed/building so people can't shoot standing up while in the upper bays, which negates any 4P shooters...
> 
> Baffles, there's loads of video on YT from Russia IPSC, most of their stuff is shot indoors, might help ?
> ...


Yes on the CTV - there are some real idiots around, but hopefully a bit of a deterrent, and if not, hopefully we can identify them

The indoor range is just a block on the plan at the moment - basically to much to do by to few people, and the money side as well. So sort of in phase 2 for that.  All due to your points mentioned really.

Thanks for the tip on the Russian stuff, will have a poke around and see if we can convert the tech to out side open air baffles.

Also a good reminder for the tables - something that has not been mentioned.

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## Tommy

> No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area.  Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from  some where, to reduce the amount.... )


Oh god that's what I thought it must mean but would be a major pain in the arse and the wallet to achieve, esp when there's a 200m range involved.  Will be very interested to see this complete, very impressed

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## kimjon

I'm not a huge fan of covered ranges, the percussion off of tin roofs puts me off. Also I do all my shooting prone if given a chioice as this is how i like to sight in my rifles, so the option to lie down and not have to use a bench would be great.

Kj

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## 308

Re indoor building vs fumes - if you want a building with common access to 100 and 200 ranges I would recommend on building with two doors to the outside which holds two ranges
Exterior style shooting area stops fume extraction problems. Inside your nice warm social area (that you build later) you have soundproof doors to both ranges. Range officer can lock the doors from the range side so no-one can go into the bays when shooters are forward. Social people can do social things without gunfire noise.
This is how we do it at Wgtn Pistol Club so pm me if you wanna come take a look if you are up this way or I can send some pics through
The range shooting bays are covered from rain and the back wall is the clubhouse - you could do the same with a short corridor to the clubhouse later if you want.This would cut down noise even more and give two independently lockable doors if wanted - a bit fancy though
Also I worked on the Police range at Training College in Porirua which is fully enclosed and they designed it so that the airflow moved from the shooter's end of the building to the target end in a "plug flow"* fashion so as to blow fumes downrange from the shooters and made all shooters use frangible rounds to avoid ricochets - not workable for civilians IMO

Re baffles the problem is getting heavy steel beams long enough, cheap enough.
Vertical steel posts or hardwood power poles holding up tanalised retaining wall T&G timber about 1500 high with 6mm plate steel tek-screwed to the back of each baffle. The expensive bit is steel beams running above each baffle with threaded rods through the guts to pick up the inevitable sag in the guts - balance the beams on top then weld some "keeper" legs down from each end to hold them onto the top of each pole
Poles need sacrificial 200x50s pref in double layers on their fronts so that their legs don't get shot out. If you need baffles to go really wide without spending $$$ on steel, perhaps your forward baffle could have a leg down for support say 10-15m forward of the shooting bays and have a wall out towards that support - our walls are open-topped wooden posts faced with timber and filled with peametal - pour more peametal in from time to time - they work ok
Presumably you guys are sourcing farm building barn rafters and whatnot secondhand?

A design note - once your overhead baffles are in place you can't move the point of shooting forward later without big $$

As for ground baffles we have two types that work well - 100x100 posts with facing boards each side and filled with peametal
and
sandbags with soil sprinkled over and ivy growing over and holding together

Both types are in a"finger" type array where they come out from each side at around knee high and overlap so that the shooter patching their target walks forward in a zigzag fashion if that makes sense

A note that may help - the wooden ground baffles can be just sitting on the ground with steel rods driven through to hold them up. This means that if you need to get a digger or something large through then you can lever the baffle up with a few people and crowbars, the peametal falls out so you can then drag it out of the way and get access then drag it back, hammer in new rods to prop it up and re-fill with peametal - just an idea
Ideally you'll have full access to the target ends but the portability factor can help when doing overhead baffle maintenance

Cheers


*fluid dynamics

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## Beaker

> Oh god that's what I thought it must mean but would be a major pain in the arse and the wallet to achieve, esp when there's a 200m range involved.  Will be very interested to see this complete, very impressed



Very much a big yes to pain in arse and wallet! :Have A Nice Day: 
Still, its only a pain, as trying to sort the best option, ie trying to be cheap, but pass cert and leave options open.

Will be posting some pics etc when i can.

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## Beaker

> I'm not a huge fan of covered ranges, the percussion off of tin roofs puts me off. Also I do all my shooting prone if given a chioice as this is how i like to sight in my rifles, so the option to lie down and not have to use a bench would be great.
> 
> Kj


I hear you on the roof issue, but we have no choice for the rifle ranges..... The pistol ranges however....

Hopefully both the 100 and 200 will be able to be shot prone, bench and standing, however due to the baffling requirements, 1 or both may be limited to 2 of the postions. Having all 3 opens up the angles and becomes a bit of pain.  However design not fully done yet on that bit, so fingers crossed all 3 are doable. The more info from other ranges the better for us in this regard.

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## Beaker

Thanks heaps for all that!

Some bloody great ideas that we hadnt thought of.

Would be really keen on the offer on coming and having a look. I come to wellington a bit, so might hit you up. 
I'll send a pm with my contact details..





> Re indoor building vs fumes - if you want a building with common access to 100 and 200 ranges I would recommend on building with two doors to the outside which holds two ranges
> Exterior style shooting area stops fume extraction problems. Inside your nice warm social area (that you build later) you have soundproof doors to both ranges. Range officer can lock the doors from the range side so no-one can go into the bays when shooters are forward. Social people can do social things without gunfire noise.
> This is how we do it at Wgtn Pistol Club so pm me if you wanna come take a look if you are up this way or I can send some pics through
> The range shooting bays are covered from rain and the back wall is the clubhouse - you could do the same with a short corridor to the clubhouse later if you want.This would cut down noise even more and give two independently lockable doors if wanted - a bit fancy though
> Also I worked on the Police range at Training College in Porirua which is fully enclosed and they designed it so that the airflow moved from the shooter's end of the building to the target end in a "plug flow"* fashion so as to blow fumes downrange from the shooters and made all shooters use frangible rounds to avoid ricochets - not workable for civilians IMO
> 
> Re baffles the problem is getting heavy steel beams long enough, cheap enough.
> Vertical steel posts or hardwood power poles holding up tanalised retaining wall T&G timber about 1500 high with 6mm plate steel tek-screwed to the back of each baffle. The expensive bit is steel beams running above each baffle with threaded rods through the guts to pick up the inevitable sag in the guts - balance the beams on top then weld some "keeper" legs down from each end to hold them onto the top of each pole
> Poles need sacrificial 200x50s pref in double layers on their fronts so that their legs don't get shot out. If you need baffles to go really wide without spending $$$ on steel, perhaps your forward baffle could have a leg down for support say 10-15m forward of the shooting bays and have a wall out towards that support - our walls are open-topped wooden posts faced with timber and filled with peametal - pour more peametal in from time to time - they work ok
> ...

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## Bagheera

*I'd start by thinking of the possible uses people might make of the range:*
sight in
accuracy testing
trajectory testing
technique practice
competition

*Intermediate ranges*
A big wide target at 25m would also be useful for people starting a sight in session.
A 50m butts or target frame half way down the 100 side would be very good, for those sighting in / testing .22RF.  
I don't know, would  a small target at 150m be useful for .17HMR and similar ?  
*
Time between going forward to targets:*
(The 5 minutes used at TECT is a bit short for me)
15 min sessions sound about right to me.  
It's enough to fire a couple of 5 shot groups with some frigging around adjusting sights, torquing up and what not 
or else long enough to do a slow group allowing the barrel to cool.  
or enough to shoot a couple of positions practice.

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## ChrisF

It sounds like you are planning something like the European ranges , ie the " no escape " bullet traps , over head , ie the contrete beams covered with wood to trap & stop bullets escaping veritically .
If thats what you are after , go to Litton Army camp & have a GOOD look at their 300m range , was designed by HK Germany I think , just bear in mind that the Litton one is was designed for automated targets , so the room in the butts is very small due to the fact its meant to have auto targets .
DUE to the Army running out of money , they never got the auto targets set up .

Its also set to do the Army AWQ on , so if you go and see the range , you need to have a copy of the AWQ type of fire , I think its built , so you can be prone or standing from 300m down , its OK to fire ,

Or do a search of European ranges .

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## Ryan

Some non-shooting stuff:

* Decent ablution facilities would probably endear yourself to the female shooters in particular. 
* A vending machine for snacks and stuff? Ear muffs that can be hired (people often forget these). 
* Maybe a couple firearms that can be hired too? 
* First aid kits

Really hope that this range is somewhere accessible for me.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## NZVarminter

We (NZDA BOP Branch) have just built a new 300m rifle range at the TECT All Terrain Park in Tauranga.

This range is a NO DANGER AREA, single firing point, cross baffle range, and as such all shots fired within the cone of fire must be captured by the range construction in such a way that there can be no ricochet induced. Shots fired with unacceptable firer deviation within a reasonable safety factor outside the cone of fire will still be trapped by the topography and not leave the range danger area.
*
The cone of fire is defined as that which will contain all but 1 shot in 1 million. For this range the cone of fire has been assessed as follows: for standing (off-hand) shooting  40mils (cf. JSP403 for military shooting for which the cone of fire is 40mils); for kneeling or sitting  20mils; for prone (no sling)  15mils (cf. NRANZ cone of fire at 300yards of less than 3.5mils  sling supported)

Entrapment of projectiles is achieved by the use of double rows of plastic drums filled with shredded tyres which have been demonstrated to stop any complying projectile within less than the diameter of the drum.

Shots outside the cone of fire will be stopped by the natural topography, modified by earthworks as required, to ensure no ricochet will be induced.

There is no point outside the range danger area (defined by the boundary fence of the range) within line of sight of the firing point where a negligently fired shot could endanger people outside the range danger area.

What is critical to this ranges safe use is the control of shooter and rifle so we have very strict range standing orders that require the rifle to be on the shoulder, pointing at the target, before a round is chambered. We also require all shooters to attend three inductions before they can shoot on the range by themselves to drum these safety protocols in. 

I can send you a long section showing the safety template if you like.

We have been operating since 2012 and the 200L plastic drums filled with shredded rubber have worked very well as the bullet catchers and we have only had to replace 5-6 of then to date. The pistol guys have tried these plastic drums but found they dont handle the large calibre slow lead projectiles very well, but we have found them extremely durable with the smaller calibre high velocity centre fires.

Here is a link to our web page that has some construction photos.

Range - New Zealand Deerstalkers Association (Bay of Plenty Branch) Inc.

I must update this with some more recent photos as we have now closed in the firing line and have just lined the inside with acoustic sound absorbing material.

The firing structure is 26m long x 6m wide with 15 shooting positions at 1.6m centres, which works well.

We have fixed target lines at 25, 50, 100,100 and 300m.  The target positions are at 1.2m centres, due to constraints with the original earthworks, which means the target sight lines at each position are not in line, which is a bit annoying. Long term we will extend the target lines to set the targets out at 1.6m centres to match the shooting positions.

We have 10 steel framed, conc filled, conc top shooting benches that weigh around 300kg each and a couple of pallet jacks to move then around. There are rock solid, but easily moved.

Were now looking at setting up a permanent installation at the 200m and 300m target lines for 6 of the Bulleye target cameras as these can be set up with solar power packs and wifi so that you can view your target on a smart phone or tablet.

Hope this info is of help

Cheers

Grant

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## Monsterbishi

> Entrapment of projectiles is achieved by the use of double rows of plastic drums filled with shredded tyres which have been demonstrated to stop any complying projectile within less than the diameter of the drum.
> .
> .
> .
> 
> We have been operating since 2012 and the 200L plastic drums filled with shredded rubber have worked very well as the bullet catchers and we have only had to replace 5-6 of then to date. The pistol guys have tried these plastic drums but found they dont handle the large calibre slow lead projectiles very well, but we have found them extremely durable with the smaller calibre high velocity centre fires.


You need to be very careful when using shredded rubber media in a backstop - over time the dust that forms from the projectiles impacting the media forms a dangerously flammable media, it's how we almost lost our range (NZHA ChCh) to a large fire that destroyed our 100m range. Originally we thought it was people using tracer rounds, but it turns out it was just rubber dust with hot lead to set it off.

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## Tankd

The problem of using drums is that projectile can exit the drum at a different angle to the one it entered at . We also for the 100/200 mtr range just use the bags the rubber comes in as they are to a degree self sealing .

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## timattalon

> No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area.  Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from  some where, to reduce the amount.... )


Have a chat to these guys or pop up from where you are and have a look on any Tuesday evening. The benches are fro standing shooting and it is a full no escape range with open air over the range itself. The no escape is achieved with heavy Timber beams across the range at intervals so from the firing position they appear to overlap thus any projectile discharged from the firing line are kept within the range. 

Home page
New Zealand Handloaders Association | Proudly established to promote amateur shooting for the recreation of its members and the general public.

The firing line
Rifle Range | New Zealand Handloaders Association

Google earth  Note the bands across the range at intervals. The steel (twin) ones are girders hold the movable bullet traps at different distances, the grey are the heavy timber beams
https://www.google.com/maps/place/59...d7b41b!6m1!1e1



I am not saying you should copy what NZHA have done, but you should get some ideas as to what works and what can be done differently. They have a pretty good set up in my view.

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## timattalon

Oh and to the left in the google earth is the Deerstalkers range

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## Friwi

Here a simulated view of what is going to be the biggest shooting complex in france in about 2 years time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eUEkVx65AJ4

Enjoy.

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## Micky Duck

> No projectile can have the possibility of leaving the range area.  Basically if your at the firing point, you cant see blue sky, via a combination of roof height of firing line, target backstop height, wing wall berms from target to firing line and crossing 'baffles' or horizontal beams across the range at various heights and distances between firing line and target (This bit for ours still needs to be worked out - a bit of a pain, as easy to do with heaps of baffles - but bloody expensive per each. Hopefully some bright idea will come from  some where, to reduce the amount.... )


Ive often wondered if this can feasible be achieved by using concrete pipes a wee way forward from muzzle say 6 feet to get muzzle blast room to spread out. if pipes are say 600mm across you can work angles to make it impossible for projectile to stray once its gone into pipe ...food for thought maybe????

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## Beaker

You are totally correct and can (has) been done. Its one of the ideas that we are playing with. not to sure on how it would go down with people though. Got heaps of ideas now for the baffleing, so now its coming to sorting where they would go, and pricing each of them.....

Infact, just this morning, the decision was made to make a shooting "tube" basically 100m of concrete culvert pipe, and enclosed ends. For a wind free range, infact just like a indoor range with out the big building.






> Ive often wondered if this can feasible be achieved by using concrete pipes a wee way forward from muzzle say 6 feet to get muzzle blast room to spread out. if pipes are say 600mm across you can work angles to make it impossible for projectile to stray once its gone into pipe ...food for thought maybe????

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## Beaker

So, first dirt is getting moved in the morning! Yippeee :Have A Nice Day: 

Dont have all the design done, or funding in place yet, but somebody wants to move a few thousand m3 of dirt, and give it to us, so how can you say no.

Atleast 98% of the main dirt works design is done........

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## Beaker

Thanks for that! 

Looks like a great place - alot of earthworks!
Would be really keen of seeing the cross sections, as thats where i'm at with the baffle designs.

Cheers






> We (NZDA BOP Branch) have just built a new 300m rifle range at the TECT All Terrain Park in Tauranga.
> 
> This range is a NO DANGER AREA, single firing point, cross baffle range, and as such all shots fired within the cone of fire must be captured by the range construction in such a way that there can be no ricochet induced. Shots fired with unacceptable firer deviation within a reasonable safety factor outside the cone of fire will still be trapped by the topography and not leave the range danger area.
> *
> The cone of fire is defined as that which will contain all but 1 shot in 1 million. For this range the cone of fire has been assessed as follows: for standing (off-hand) shooting — 40mils (cf. JSP403 for military shooting for which the cone of fire is 40mils); for kneeling or sitting — 20mils; for prone (no sling) — 15mils (cf. NRANZ cone of fire at 300yards of less than 3.5mils — sling supported)
> 
> Entrapment of projectiles is achieved by the use of double rows of plastic drums filled with shredded tyres which have been demonstrated to stop any complying projectile within less than the diameter of the drum.
> 
> Shots outside the cone of fire will be stopped by the natural topography, modified by earthworks as required, to ensure no ricochet will be induced.
> ...

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## Beaker

Actually came up and had a great look around the pistol side,(and removed a bit of paint from their targets! And a big thanks to the guys for showing us around and explaining the history, issues, etc.... A great day and heaps of great info - and a good bunch of folk)

We run out of time to pop over the fence, so thanks for those links. I must say i didnt look at google maps for ideas, and that was a great set of photos..... And will remember that tip for future....






> Have a chat to these guys or pop up from where you are and have a look on any Tuesday evening. The benches are fro standing shooting and it is a full no escape range with open air over the range itself. The no escape is achieved with heavy Timber beams across the range at intervals so from the firing position they appear to overlap thus any projectile discharged from the firing line are kept within the range. 
> 
> Home page
> New Zealand Handloaders Association | Proudly established to promote amateur shooting for the recreation of its members and the general public.
> 
> The firing line
> Rifle Range | New Zealand Handloaders Association
> 
> Google earth  Note the bands across the range at intervals. The steel (twin) ones are girders hold the movable bullet traps at different distances, the grey are the heavy timber beams
> ...

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## Beaker

Ok so this is where its at, at present.
Any thoughts/comments????
Baffles are still missing (need to pull finger on sorting the design for that) and long range buildings not designed - as they tie into the baffle design.
Club house/indoor range - will be next phase, its just a 25mx50m block at present (current thought is to turn it into a 2 storey, range on the ground floor, club rooms, kitchen etc on top - then should be able to see over the general site from the top - plus shoot pistols inside. Could also hire out for functions etc... Lots more though to go into this yet, just trying to sort the outside at the moment. 

We have about 5000m3 of the dirt onsite now and more happening for the next 2 weeks, so looking good!!

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## Ryan

Please tell us which island it's on at least, apologies if I've been looking against my eyelids.

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## Beaker

> Please tell us which island it's on at least, apologies if I've been looking against my eyelids.


The mainland... South canterbury.
Your thoughts?

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## Beaker

Thanks for that.
The 200m rnge will be able to have targets at 25, 50, 75?, 100, 150 and 200m. Just sorting the baffles this week, which will be the decider. All at same height, not up hill, so have to pick 1 range begoe going forward - this may change depending on baffles ( m big head ache.... )

The timing issue is up for debate. 15mins on a open type night ok?

Trying to allow for all of those uses.




> *I'd start by thinking of the possible uses people might make of the range:*
> sight in
> accuracy testing
> trajectory testing
> technique practice
> competition
> 
> *Intermediate ranges*
> A big wide target at 25m would also be useful for people starting a sight in session.
> ...

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## 308

Drainage

If ground is flat naturally then you guys in the South don't need a North Islander to tell you what liquiefaction is.
If ground has a slope then it's a good idea to do slit trenches say 300mm or one narrow digger bucket wide and maybe 600mm deep running downhill with an interceptor drain across the top of the slope and a bigger runoff drain at the bottom of the slop leading down to a soakpit full of rocks or a pond outlet or some such. Fill em with rock or gravel

Also the piled earth berms are going to weigh down on the ground and squeeze water out of the ground slowly over a couple of years (if clay) so they will be wet alongside - slit trenches underneath will carry some of this water away

This will take a lot of gravel but it's easier at the beginning of the project


Also whilst digging, if funds allow, a shallow trench with electrical conduit all sealed up and a draw wire running through would be a good extra if run down the line of some ranges - you could later run cables for turning target control or moving target control etc

It will be good to see this project take shape

----------


## Beaker

Thanks for that
The drainage is going to be a close one. The site slopes about 800mm side to side and is about 300mm from end to end, the soil is quite permaable, and theres a main drainage canal running on the down side (drain goes for miles up and down from this site. At the moment the thoughts are along yours, with the addtion of novaflow pipes in as many as possible - all draining towards the canal drain.

The power distro around the site, we might be onto a moleplow to put in the main feed. Hopefully at the same time we can get so ducts run around the place for your exact reasons. The whole site will have wifi and internet(target cameras, target control, site cameras, access control, scoring, porn watching while waiting to shoot, reading the forum, etc) but getting power around is still being sorted (lighting, running boar, target turning actuators, access control, )

I'll try and post some pics up etc, as and when things of note happen. 






> Drainage
> 
> If ground is flat naturally then you guys in the South don't need a North Islander to tell you what liquiefaction is.
> If ground has a slope then it's a good idea to do slit trenches say 300mm or one narrow digger bucket wide and maybe 600mm deep running downhill with an interceptor drain across the top of the slope and a bigger runoff drain at the bottom of the slop leading down to a soakpit full of rocks or a pond outlet or some such. Fill em with rock or gravel
> 
> Also the piled earth berms are going to weigh down on the ground and squeeze water out of the ground slowly over a couple of years (if clay) so they will be wet alongside - slit trenches underneath will carry some of this water away
> 
> This will take a lot of gravel but it's easier at the beginning of the project
> 
> ...

----------


## 308

You only really need Novaflo (with a sock) in clayey areas where the clay will gum up a trench. If your trench is pea metal or loose stones and more than say 200mm wide it should be ok but talk to local contractors

Ideally you have a rectangular grid - one shallow drain at the top to head off surface water and a series going down towards the main drainage canal to drain the site

----------


## Ryan

Damnit, this range is way too far away from my location.  :Sad:

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## Beaker

> Damnit, this range is way too far away from my location.


We have hotels here....,  :Have A Nice Day:  and a Airport!

----------


## Beaker

> You only really need Novaflo (with a sock) in clayey areas where the clay will gum up a trench. If your trench is pea metal or loose stones and more than say 200mm wide it should be ok but talk to local contractors
> 
> Ideally you have a rectangular grid - one shallow drain at the top to head off surface water and a series going down towards the main drainage canal to drain the site


Gottcha on that.  The soil type is quite fine, so a bit worried about fines migration, gumming up just rock drains.  Plus we have a few metres that may be going to be 'donated' .....

I think in may try and put some trench's on the plan with slopes etc and try and figure it out a bit more scientifically than just a scratch in the ground later.

----------


## Dangerous Dan

Another user group / stakeholder you might consider adding.

Corporate events and hiring of the facility for 1/2 & 1 day blocks. Range utilization and conferencing.

Have you considered running a shop on site?

----------


## Tommy

> Another user group / stakeholder you might consider adding.
> 
> Corporate events and hiring of the facility for 1/2 & 1 day blocks. Range utilization and conferencing.
> 
> Have you considered running a shop on site?


Both very good ideas.

As far as the fines migrating through to the trenches goes, can you have sumps at intervals which can be dug out every year or three?

----------


## 308

There are plenty of ways to skin a cat - if the trenches have sloping bottoms towards the downhill, are say 200mm+wide and filled with bigger stones eg AP40/70 (like in concrete retaining walls) on the bottom and cheaper 20mmdown or pea metal on top then you should be fine. Again, a local contractor with experience will know what works and what doesn't so their experience would be best

As for sumps, a trench of peametal tends to pour out of any cut so the best sump may be a plastic 44gal drum with a liftable concrete lid on top but that costs more money. Plastic drums make great silt traps though


As far as the fines migrating through to the trenches goes, can you have sumps at intervals which can be dug out every year or three?[/QUOTE]

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## Beaker

Trying to work on the conference type thing.  Things like company offsite planning sessions, workshops etc.... use the club rooms, end of day a few 'shooting' guys turn up and all can have a shot, then a 'fanta' and off.  It all depends on the type of club rooms that get put there (read - how many dollars spent)

The shop one is prob not going to be a flyer, as the location doesn't really suit.  However for competitions, we could have a area for vendors to set up in.








> Another user group / stakeholder you might consider adding.
> 
> Corporate events and hiring of the facility for 1/2 & 1 day blocks. Range utilization and conferencing.
> 
> Have you considered running a shop on site?

----------


## Beaker

I think you and 308 are on it, Sumps and dig out when needed.
I would think that they would need to be dug out often for a start, but then would settle in after a few good rains etc..





> Both very good ideas.
> 
> As far as the fines migrating through to the trenches goes, can you have sumps at intervals which can be dug out every year or three?

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## Tankd

If you are worried about drainage material contamination ,all that is required is a decent blinding layer,of sand, on top of the Pea metal /GAP 6 (I forget what exactly).But remember drains do not last forever and it is possible to blast out/clean out pipe drainage.

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## Dangerous Dan

Have you looked at a wet trap rather sumps? More expensive up front but pay for themselves over time. Your location sounds rural so, might not be viable.

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## Beaker

So, ground drainage should now be sorted.....

Overhead baffles are not. So my thinking is i want to design to .50bmg. Reason being that, to span 30m and minimise how many, we need the baffles to be thick and high. Cost is a factor. Steel beams clad with wood (steel to hold it up and wood for penetration and splator) vers concrete (for penetration concrete, wood for splator), concrete seems to win. 300mm thick, 50mm air gap and 50-100mm pine (read 100x100 fence post) wood clad. 

Any thoughts? Want the highest calbre / energy possible, but vers users etc....

----------


## Beaker

> If you are worried about drainage material contamination ,all that is required is a decent blinding layer,of sand, on top of the Pea metal /GAP 6 (I forget what exactly).But remember drains do not last forever and it is possible to blast out/clean out pipe drainage.


Gottcha on that.  Looks like a big rock trench with pipe will be the way, with top layer sand/fines.
And a few sumps to be dug out........

----------


## Beaker

> Have you looked at a wet trap rather sumps? More expensive up front but pay for themselves over time. Your location sounds rural so, might not be viable.


Your correct, dont think it would work for us.
Sediment gravity traps will be the way. Mixed in with trench gravel selection and pipes....

Ie a real pain in the arse....  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Beaker

Bit of a updated plan.

Couple of changes to add in another range (30m wide by 60 long), sorted some berm height issues, etc..

Still haven't got the baffles drawn in (basic outline done of where and how big though, and we should be certified up to 7000 joules - still need the detail design done to confirm the thickness which will determine final joule level) or the range buildings...... but should be soon.



Dirt being moved now...

----------


## small_caliber

Looks like you are fairly well down the track of design, one thing that I think someone pointed out earlier in this thread was that find out what shooters require for what they want to do, then provide the facilities they need.

To me this is like composing a list of activities and then composing a list of requirements for those activities, this way you may find by making small changes or adding something in you increase the usage of the facility.

I know nothing about pistol shooting, so wouldn't think I could design a pistol shooting range that would actually suit pistol shooters and their style of competition.

When it comes to rifle ranges I can think of numerous uses, sighting in a rifle both rimfire and centrefire, teaching (hunts course maybe), accuracy testing, practice for field shooting (ie prone standing etc), informal competition (rimfire egg shoots, 200m rimfire flyshoot, centrefire egg shoots, hunting rifle target shooting etc) competition shooting (short F class, 3P, Postal shoots, NZDA competition, Benchrest etc), Open days for the public.

The idea would be to get input from those that participate in various types of shooting to find out what they require, an example of what could happen if you don't is you could end up building benches that say short people can't use comfortably ie: top too high off the ground and their feet can't touch the ground while shooting their firearm.

When it comes to use is everyone going to have access to it? at what cost? Do they have to undergo a course to be able to use it without a range officer or be a club member?

There are probably many other things that come into designing and running a range successfully and what works at one range (ie tect park) may not work at your range.

----------


## Greenie

Drooling...Makes me wanna move south (Home)

----------


## Beaker

So some small changes -

----------


## StrikerNZ

Very impressed with the rapid progress on this.. the sooner we can transition from the old range the better. Thanks for all your work.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Beaker

Still ALOT to do......

But site is looking really good :Have A Nice Day: 
It'll still be a while away for the 100 and 200(maybe 300....) ranges though and the indoor range. Bloody money......

----------


## Beaker

Latest, now the 200m range is going to be out to 300m......

----------


## tararua

Sorry I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I had a good laugh and it is a similar topic:

Planning dispute as gun club moves in next door to Wairarapa organic farm | Stuff.co.nz

Reminded me of this next link. I am glad we have good property rights and a few neighbors having a sook can't ruin it for the larger firearms community.

Pistol range in neighbours' sights | Stuff.co.nz

----------


## Dreamer

> Latest, now the 200m range is going to be out to 300m......


Thats fantastic news. Cant wait to get some lead down range!

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## Beaker

Bloody rain......
Bit of a delay now due to HV cant get into site, but still looking great.

Bit of a question, what type of floor of range is the preferred? Grass, astroturf, etc....

----------


## R93

> Bloody rain......
> Bit of a delay now due to HV cant get into site, but still looking great.
> 
> Bit of a question, what type of floor of range is the preferred? Grass, astroturf, etc....


Something that doesn't swallow your brass. :Thumbsup:

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## Beaker

Hear you on that!  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Flincher

To allow prone shooting without doing extra work to keep the projectile containment.  you could have larger/extra benches that people can climb ontop and shoot prone from. Keeping them up off the ground and within the normal shooting angles

----------


## small_caliber

> Bloody rain......
> Bit of a delay now due to HV cant get into site, but still looking great.
> 
> Bit of a question, what type of floor of range is the preferred? Grass, astroturf, etc....


Lets see, if money is no option astroturf, the 300m range alone would cost around 110k...............I'm pretty sure there are other more important things to spend that money on, just lay some grass and keep it mowed, and plant the berms in grasses. 
For the rifle ranges, if you are shooting from a concrete slab with benches on it you shouldn't lose your brass, as for the short ranges you could lose pistol brass in anything.




> To allow prone shooting without doing extra work to keep the projectile containment.  you could have larger/extra benches that people can climb ontop and shoot prone from. Keeping them up off the ground and within the normal shooting angles


Flincher are you talking about additional portable benches for people to lie on and shoot prone off? Or making the benches a lot bigger to shoot prone off and also to use to shoot from the normal seated position?

If the former they would need to be well built so they didn't shake while being used and if the latter the benches would be huge (approx. 2.5m x 3.5m or more) to allow a left hand shooter and a right hand shooter to shoot from and have it so they and their firearm wouldn't fall off (huge safety issue), this size would certainly limit the number of benches you could install, and would require some thought in design so they could be used for shooting off while sitting.

For such a huge outlay in development costs is there going to be a charge to use the range and if there is what is it going to be?

For benches the top design shown at the top of page 6, in the below pdf file is the best design I've ever shot off.
http://benchrest.com/articles/benches.pdf

----------


## Flincher

> Lets see, if money is no option astroturf, the 300m range alone would cost around 110k...............I'm pretty sure there are other more important things to spend that money on, just lay some grass and keep it mowed, and plant the berms in grasses. 
> For the rifle ranges, if you are shooting from a concrete slab with benches on it you shouldn't lose your brass, as for the short ranges you could lose pistol brass in anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Flincher are you talking about additional portable benches for people to lie on and shoot prone off? Or making the benches a lot bigger to shoot prone off and also to use to shoot from the normal seated position?
> 
> If the former they would need to be well built so they didn't shake while being used and if the latter the benches would be huge (approx. 2.5m x 3.5m or more) to allow a left hand shooter and a right hand shooter to shoot from and have it so they and their firearm wouldn't fall off (huge safety issue), this size would certainly limit the number of benches you could install, and would require some thought in design so they could be used for shooting off while sitting.


Either or. But as you said if they are permanent benchs they will take up alot of space. Even having 1 or 2 down the end would be good. Or design a removable top/cover for the standard benchs.

----------


## Beaker

> Lets see, if money is no option astroturf, the 300m range alone would cost around 110k...............I'm pretty sure there are other more important things to spend that money on, just lay some grass and keep it mowed, and plant the berms in grasses. 
> For the rifle ranges, if you are shooting from a concrete slab with benches on it you shouldn't lose your brass, as for the short ranges you could lose pistol brass in anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Flincher are you talking about additional portable benches for people to lie on and shoot prone off? Or making the benches a lot bigger to shoot prone off and also to use to shoot from the normal seated position?
> 
> If the former they would need to be well built so they didn't shake while being used and if the latter the benches would be huge (approx. 2.5m x 3.5m or more) to allow a left hand shooter and a right hand shooter to shoot from and have it so they and their firearm wouldn't fall off (huge safety issue), this size would certainly limit the number of benches you could install, and would require some thought in design so they could be used for shooting off while sitting.
> 
> ...


Sorry, should have been a bit more specific on the range floor question.  Just meaning for the short/pistol ranges.
The longer and general site will be grassed/tussocks/natives etc.....

Benches, I think there will be a bit of a mix of fixed and moveable - to allow for the most usage of the range.  Thanks for the doc link to the various shapes, types etc., a good concise summary doc.
Point taken about the bench to go prone on, but is already discounted as to much of a risk (ie IF someone was to shoot from the floor/ground, there would be no baffle protection - I know they'd be not following rules etc., but IF something did leave the range not a good thing for anyone, so hence full baffles from floor to standing height.)

Yes there will be a cost, in the form of a membership. And yes there will be a process to go through to allow you to use the range at any time etc.... Still working these out.

----------


## small_caliber

> Sorry, should have been a bit more specific on the range floor question.  Just meaning for the short/pistol ranges.
> The longer and general site will be grassed/tussocks/natives etc.....
> 
> Benches, I think there will be a bit of a mix of fixed and moveable - to allow for the most usage of the range.  Thanks for the doc link to the various shapes, types etc., a good concise summary doc.
> Point taken about the bench to go prone on, but is already discounted as to much of a risk (ie IF someone was to shoot from the floor/ground, there would be no baffle protection - I know they'd be not following rules etc., but IF something did leave the range not a good thing for anyone, so hence full baffles from floor to standing height.)
> 
> Yes there will be a cost, in the form of a membership. And yes there will be a process to go through to allow you to use the range at any time etc.... Still working these out.



I might be reading the above wrong but does that mean there will be baffles from the floor of the range to a certain height?

If there is how will shooters be able to shoot prone or sitting? ie 3P shooting competition. Most hunters will want to be able to practice field shooting positions, ie prone off packs, sitting and sometimes standing.

----------


## StrikerNZ

I think he's just meaning baffles _to handle_ shooting anywhere from floor to standing.  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Beaker

> I might be reading the above wrong but does that mean there will be baffles from the floor of the range to a certain height?
> 
> If there is how will shooters be able to shoot prone or sitting? ie 3P shooting competition. Most hunters will want to be able to practice field shooting positions, ie prone off packs, sitting and sometimes standing.


Yeap, reading wrong. I was meaning that shooting heights from floor to standing postion, will have baffle protection. 1.8m from bottom edge of baffle to firing line pad floor, which is about .3-.6m above the range floor. So about 2-2.4m under baffles to range floor, so dont have to duck head if walking up range

----------


## Beaker

Some progress after wet weather delays -

----------


## Towely

I wouldnt put astro turf on any part of a range that is going to have targets sitting on it. Especialy with ipsc being shot there. Keep it simple. Grass.

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## 308

Close to the shooters I would consider concrete or asphalt so that the brass can be swept up provided it is not in the cone of fire.

Further out and keeping in mind that you don't want to track it back into the clubroom lime can be a really good choice as it packs down hard and costs sod-all

----------


## small_caliber

It's been a while since I visited the range website and I see from the time lapse video that the work on the short ranges has progressed and this work has blocked the view of the rest of the complex, does this mean the range being built for the police and the 100m sight in range are now up and running or??

During a conversation with one of the trustees I was told that the Police and the 100m sight in range were going to be the first two ranges built, to enable an income to be made while the remainder of the ranges were being built.....has this changed??

----------


## Beaker

Big brother is watching -https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/Aorangi+Rd,+Washdyke,+Timaru+7973/@-44.3466737,171.2663428,785m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x6d2ce98ca443d941:0x107a3  db1f41fc836

Now on Google Earth.

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## Beaker

So had a very friendly over flight, and they just happened to have a camera -



No real change in dirt works for a while, due to some unfortunate circumstances......

Certification underway now for the 2 short ranges, and general site. 

Hopefully shooting by Xmas....


It's a real credit to the people involved, and more so to the contractors, authorities and suppliers, that it's got this far in the time frames and cost.

----------


## PERRISCICABA

Congratulations to the peopld involved in this great project, i had the oportunity to visit the site from outside and everything looks amazing, i hope one of these days i can go for a shooting in such great and safe enviroment  
mac

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## matto1234

Is the whatawhata range running?

----------


## Beaker

Unfortunate circumstances sorted, and more dirt coming in. Also more money raised......

Still waiting on the paper work for the first 2, but sometime soon (ie no idea when it'll be through.....)

Was hoping to shoot it by Xmas 2015, but it might be a 2016 task. Still, it's only been about 12 months from having no land, let alone design or money to what it is now, so a big ups for all involved.

----------


## silentscope

looking bloody great. cant wait to get down and see it for real

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## Friwi

> Is the whatawhata range running?


Yes but not often.
Looking at January now for shooting.

----------


## StrikerNZ

Rifle range project to boost South Canterbury economy | Stuff.co.nz

 :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## PERRISCICABA

> Rifle range project to boost South Canterbury economy | Stuff.co.nz


Congratulations guys, job well done. I been there(outside) and with my partner overlook the place as suggested by @Beaker and it looks great. 

Keep the great work, thank you Timary district council, police and all the other involved for the support. 

Mac

----------


## Beaker

So web site is in a first release now....
Aorangi Range

AND now the range is accepting people to sign up for membership
AND it has certification for the first 2 short ranges, and should be shooting them in 2 weeks time (in a rather muddy way....)
AND the 100m range should be up and running in a few months


Suggestions for the web site content are more then welcome

----------


## Beaker

And now the barrels have a couple of holes in.....


First shots fired!

----------


## PERRISCICABA

Congratulations to you guys in Timaru! Congratulations to you @Beaker for keep us posted and fire the first shots(I hope it was you). 
Keep the great work!
Congratulations to ALL of those who made it possible. 

Mac

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## small_caliber

> And now the barrels have a couple of holes in.....
> Attachment 45920
> 
> First shots fired!


Hmm, good view. 

I thought these ranges being built are to be "no exit" ranges yet looking at that it would be very easy to put a round or two over the backstop. How are these classed as "no exit" yet they don't have any baffles?

----------


## Beaker

> Hmm, good view. 
> 
> I thought these ranges being built are to be "no exit" ranges yet looking at that it would be very easy to put a round or two over the backstop. How are these classed as "no exit" yet they don't have any baffles?


This range in the picture (number 5) is certified as a ‘No Danger Area Range’ so no need for baffles (due to length and width of permissible shooting area and berm heights and widths.) This applies to all of the short designed ranges (8) in the complex.  Also the butts of the 2 longer ranges will be able to be shoot in a similar manor

However, when finished the 100m and 300m ranges will be ‘Baffled’ ranges, with a fixed firing point (target placement at varying distances).  As it sits now, the design has covered target lines at 50, 100, -on 100m range and 50, 100, 200 and 300m on the 300m range, as these will be below some of the baffles/eye brow at these points.  A bit of a win there!

If you’re after some more detailed information on range certification requirements -

https://www.police.govt.nz/service/f...nge-manual.pdf
Range Inspections

Quite important to understand these documents well, to prevent rework when building ranges, as there are a few things that can slip past people.  (exposed steel, hard wood used where projectiles could impact, getting standing orders written early in conjunction with certifier,  etc…) 

Luckily we haven’t had to do any rework on the build yet (not saying that we won’t have to ! :Have A Nice Day:  ), as we have had excellent communication with the certifiers, police and design/construction guys .  In fact the national police certifier and trainer are coming for a visit soon and we are going for certification for another finished range in the near future.

----------


## Beaker

And just to put the words into pics -
Looking from 300m firing line - (the concrete footings for the baffle supports, will be below finished ground level, and are only drawn in for easy of reference, support poles for the building will also line up with the baffle supports, so we don't loose shooting positions because of them, also all steel work will be softwood clad.  The final engineering design for the 300m range is yet to be completed - 100m range has been our priority, and doesn't have intermediate supports) 



100m butt area -


General overview (with some small errors...  :Have A Nice Day:  ) -


Hopefully that makes the baffling issue abit clearer.

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## PERRISCICABA

Looks stunning, i can't congratulate you guys enough for such a great "investment", determination and effort.

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## small_caliber

While I understand what you are saying, I can certainly see a potentially significant danger issue.

Your drawings do show the baffles on the 100 and 300 ranges, but just looking at the short ranges it would be very easy to put a round over the berms.....and there is nothing to stop them causing some significant danger to others given the lack of any danger area. 

It is my understanding that not only hand guns, but also rifles and shot guns will be allowed to be used on the short ranges, is this correct?

Given that the 3 short ranges facing South are not very far from where other people may be using the other ranges, this could be a potential safety issue, with possibly disasterous results.

I notice that the 100 and 300 range have two sets of baffles within, I estimate, 40m (looking at your drawings) of the firing line so looking at that I can only assume those baffles are to prevent a high shot going out of the range and would think if it can happen on these ranges it can happen on the short ranges as well.

Looking at the baffles over the target area on the 100 and 300 range I can see how you could use these ranges in the same manner as the short ranges, as there is a baffle over the target area to contain any high shots, yet the short ranges do not have this feature.

Looking at your design drawings it looks like the 100 and 300 ranges are designed to be idiot proof, yet the short ranges are designed for best case scenario, which looks like two different sets of standards.

Saying a bullet won't go over the top is like saying nobody will have an accident in a car.

While the regulations may not call for baffles on the short ranges, who is responsible if someone using the short range does put one over the top and it does injure or kill someone?

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## Friwi

The guy who did the shooting?

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## small_caliber

Possibly, if there is proof the shooter isn't following the standing orders, but what happens if a richocet goes over the top and injures or kills someone...........both instances would be a bad out come for the person on the recieving end and given todays finger of blame it could also fall on those providing the facility as it could be deemed they didn't do everything possible to prevent this scenario from happening.

So far there have been no firearm related deaths on any range in NZ, namely because of how a range is laid out with safety zones.

----------


## Antz

Is this new range facility open to the public yet? If it is where about is it please?

Cheers Antz

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## Pengy

> Possibly, if there is proof the shooter isn't following the standing orders, but what happens if a richocet goes over the top and injures or kills someone...........both instances would be a bad out come for the person on the recieving end and given todays finger of blame it could also fall on those providing the facility as it could be deemed they didn't do everything possible to prevent this scenario from happening.
> 
> So far there have been no firearm related deaths on any range in NZ, namely because of how a range is laid out with safety zones.



You have obviously not seen the DOC/NZDA `sighting in area ` near St Arnaud.....on public land , 80 mts off the main gravel road and with a mountain bike track running behind it a couple of hundred meters away.  :Sad: 
Not suggesting there have been any incidents there yet, but considering the number of shot up bourbon can etc etc that were laying around the so calledrange last week, I would not be surprised to hear of one.

----------


## Pengy

Really?

----------


## mikee

> Attachment 47595Attachment 47596Really?


Rumor is (get this) this particular range is restricted to Rimfire only which given all DOC permits state Centerfire Only or words to that effect ??

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## Pengy

That is what I heard too mikee. It would help if there was signage to that effect, but even then it is still potentially dangerous imho.

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## mikee

Well I would not shoot there anyway more likely go way up the back of there or in my case not too far, I'm not very fit  :Have A Nice Day:

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## mikee

> Attachment 47595Attachment 47596Really?


I see you your range and raise you the Ashburton Rifle Range

Yes thats right its right in town, Top Blue arrow is the Butts, Bottom Arrow is 600m shooting mound (from memory) Town Dump is to the left and the mountain bike track goes along the river bank though the willow trees behind the Butts and yes its in the middle of town.
Range was there first , then the dump and then Mountain bike track put in about 10 years ago
I think at the moment they are having a few issues but I remember shooting there 15 years ago. Very handy it was

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## 223nut

Looking like a good set up. Any one know if there is a map with all the certified ranges on it?

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## stretch

> Any one know if there is a map with all the certified ranges on it?


Not to my knowledge, but working on it. I sent an Official Information Request to the NZ Police last year, thinking they were the authority on approving ranges for public use. They say they're not, and to contact each and every Territorial Authority for that info. Sounds like a lot of getting dicked around by bureaucrats to me.

Instead, I whipped up this spreadsheet just now. Its editable by anyone, so feel free to add what you know:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...p=docslist_api

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## stretch

I'll ultimately add this info to my map: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../Leaflet2.html

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## Beaker

Gees @stretch I was thinking the same thing for a while! 

I Started this - https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...v8&usp=sharing

I was hoping there was a list, but difficult to find. The best I could get to was from PNZ and DA - 
Contact Us 

Local Branches -

When I get time (maybe 2023... :Have A Nice Day:  ) i'll try and go through the lists and add them to the map.  However I've opened it up so all can put their points on it in the mean time.  The intent was for certified ranges, but that may get greyed.... SO please all add if you can!!! Both pins for the actual location and a link to a website for details on how to get access


In my mind, the more people that know where certified ranges are, and get the info on how to be able to shoot them, the better (i.e. try and stop people sighting in etc., in stupid places). Plus it hopefully ups the membership levels of the owning organisations, so they can keep on going.

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## Beaker

> Is this new range facility open to the public yet? If it is where about is it please?
> 
> Cheers Antz


Try this -
Contact | Aorangi Range

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## small_caliber

Antz, I'm unsure about that. Last time I talked to one of the trustees he said it wasn't supposed to be open yet as all the trustees hadn't signed off on the standing orders. That was about 3 weeks ago.

The only ranges finished (and I think certified) are 3 short ranges, 2 x 20m and 1 x 40m

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## small_caliber

> I see you your range and raise you the Ashburton Rifle Range
> Attachment 47599
> Yes thats right its right in town, Top Blue arrow is the Butts, Bottom Arrow is 600m shooting mound (from memory) Town Dump is to the left and the mountain bike track goes along the river bank though the willow trees behind the Butts and yes its in the middle of town.
> Range was there first , then the dump and then Mountain bike track put in about 10 years ago
> I think at the moment they are having a few issues but I remember shooting there 15 years ago. Very handy it was


From what I've been told this range is closed at present.......due to the Mountain bike track I think.

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## Beaker

> Antz, I'm unsure about that. Last time I talked to one of the trustees he said it wasn't supposed to be open yet as all the trustees hadn't signed off on the standing orders. That was about 3 weeks ago.
> 
> The only ranges finished (and I think certified) are 3 short ranges, 2 x 20m and 1 x 40m


Incorrect. Standing orders are approved/signed off by the police, after consultantion and recommendation of the range inspector. In essance, the trustees have no say in them.

Also, the 2 short rangers are approved, and the 40m is not yet.


As you seem to be local to the range, and are showing a interest, come out one saturday afternoon, (or can sort a different time, just use the web site to make contact) and i will sort a few of the management committee and trustees to run you through what is actually happening. It sounds like some of the info is getting muddled at some point.

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## Antz

I'd love to come out but not sure where it is I'm in Timaru. I spoke to a guy in Dix's firearms the other day he said it wouldn't be open for at least two years. 

Cheers Antz

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## Beaker

Range is at - aorangi rd, washdyke. Down by the stopbank.  
There will be guys there today from now until prob 5, if you want to pop out.


Map is at - Contact | Aorangi Range

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## Antz

> Range is at - aorangi rd, washdyke. Down by the stopbank.  
> There will be guys there today from now until prob 5, if you want to pop out.
> 
> 
> Map is at - Contact | Aorangi Range


Thank you Beaker I couldn't open the contacts on my IPad.  I'll take a drive down now cheers mate

Antz

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## Antz

> Range is at - aorangi rd, washdyke. Down by the stopbank.  
> There will be guys there today from now until prob 5, if you want to pop out.
> 
> 
> Map is at - Contact | Aorangi Range


Thank you Beaker I couldn't open the contacts on my IPad.  I'll take a drive down now cheers mate

Antz

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## Beaker

> Thank you Beaker I couldn't open the contacts on my IPad.  I'll take a drive down now cheers mate
> 
> Antz



Hi Antz
Good to meet you yesterday. Sorry it was a bit rushed....

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## Beaker

So a bit of a aerial update from yesterday -





Photos done by -

https://m.facebook.com/nzuntold/

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## StrikerNZ

Where were those when I was looking for a nice recent photo to go in the hotshot.. ah well.

 Looking very good!  :Cool:

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## Beaker

Lol, not taken. Was a morning coffee discussion yesterday and he did it after lunch...

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## R93

Looks good fella😆

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## nzfubz

When's the first IPSC match? 

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## Maca49

Taupo range in morning to play with some BP. Hope it's free!

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## nickstone

Hey Guys,

I am Auckland based and and only recently got my A license.  I bought a Mossberg 590 and am keen of shooting it but unfortunately I can not shoot it due to shorter barrel at my clay club (waitemata). I am very keen of breaking this gun into action but since I am new to New Zealand too (Dutchie) I do not really know my way around. Basically what I am looking for is a piece of land I can hire maybe with some other folks and do some shooting. Can some one offer me any help where to go? I would appreciate it very much. 

Thanks. 

PS I would like to shoot shotgun and rifle.

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## Beaker

> Hey Guys,
> 
> I am Auckland based and and only recently got my A license.  I bought a Mossberg 590 and am keen of shooting it but unfortunately I can not shoot it due to shorter barrel at my clay club (waitemata). I am very keen of breaking this gun into action but since I am new to New Zealand too (Dutchie) I do not really know my way around. Basically what I am looking for is a piece of land I can hire maybe with some other folks and do some shooting. Can some one offer me any help where to go? I would appreciate it very much. 
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> PS I would like to shoot shotgun and rifle.


Try having a look at this -

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...ontacts-26322/

I think aorangirange may be a bit far away for you....

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## Beaker

> When's the first IPSC match? 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


SCPSC club days every Saturday afternoon. Your more than welcome to come down for a look and join in!

As for formal matches, will be a while yet. Maybe end of year, or into next.


Pm me if your wanting to come down, and we can make sure there's people there, things to shoot at etc...

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## small_caliber

What is the current status of the rifle ranges, the 100 and 300?

As I understood the 100 was going to be up and running before Christmas, but it looks like nothing has happened to develop the rifle ranges for quite a while.

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