# Firearms and Shooting > Pistol Shooting >  Air pistols and robberies

## mcdeee

I've noticed more and more robberies reported where the dickheads have used air pistols. Of course the media just reports "pistols" as per the below article from today. I wonder if this is damaging the image of legitimate pistol shooters like myself? Any opinions on the matter? Is it time to make them A cat? I'm typically against further regulation.

Armed robbery victim had owned Ngaruawahia dairy for only four months - National - NZ Herald News

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## veitnamcam

> I've noticed more and more robberies reported where the dickheads have used air pistols. Of course the media just reports "pistols" as per the below article from today. I wonder if this is damaging the image of legitimate pistol shooters like myself? Any opinions on the matter? Is it time to make them A cat? I'm typically against further regulation.
> 
> Armed robbery victim had owned Ngaruawahia dairy for only four months - National - NZ Herald News


How do you know it was an air pistol used in the robbery?

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## Koshogi

How would making them A cat prevent robberies?

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## mcdeee

> How do you know it was an air pistol used in the robbery?


Just seems 98% likely. Petty criminal would be risking a lot with a real pistol in public.

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## mcdeee

> How would making them A cat prevent robberies?


Well, it would be too late anyway as they're well and truly out there. Just thinking about the kind of person who would rob a dairy, and whether they would qualify for a firearms licence. It might make it slightly harder. 

I'm not saying I support this, I'm just thinking out loud.

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## Koshogi

Criminals don't need a firearms licence.

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## mcdeee

> Criminals don't need a firearms licence.


Yeah, quite.

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## veitnamcam

What they need is tougher sentencing for using a firearm in a crime.
If it was 6 months home d for robbing a dairy with a screwdriver  and 10 years maximum security for the same with a pistol you would suddenly see a lot less pistols used.

Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk

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## norsk

Or if we tackled the reason's for people robbing Dairy's in the first place.

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## Ozzy

How about we just arm the dairy owners?

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## gonetropo

sooner or later a grumpy dairy owner is going to shoot one of these dickheads, then he will be prosecuted of course. 
no wonder the criminals have no respect they know 99.9% of people will comply and fork over the money

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## Tommy

> What they need is tougher sentencing for using a firearm in a crime.
> If it was 6 months home d for robbing a dairy with a screwdriver  and 10 years maximum security for the same with a pistol you would suddenly see a lot less pistols used.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G800Y using Tapatalk


Any sort of armed robbery should be looking at a ten stretch. Anything with illegal firearms an extra five for flavour, even if not actually used (in a meth lab for instance). As for "the reasons for robbing dairies", well, they're criminal arseholes - fuck them! Want more money? Work harder, get a second job, stop smoking, stop having a ton of kids they can't afford etc etc etc. Making excuses for these human vermin just enables it and continues this bullshit.

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## norsk

> Any sort of armed robbery should be looking at a ten stretch. Anything with illegal firearms an extra five for flavour, even if not actually used (in a meth lab for instance). As for "the reasons for robbing dairies", well, they're criminal arseholes - fuck them! Want more money? Work harder, get a second job, stop smoking, stop having a ton of kids they can't afford etc etc etc. Making excuses for these human vermin just enables it and continues this bullshit.


Ok cool.

Do you think social programs would be more or less expensive than locking up hundreds of "Human Vermin?" in Jails that are now businesses?

The gap between rich and poor in New Zealand is growing at such a rate that people are "opting out" of regular society.A heavy handed approach to Crime is not going to make the real problem go away.

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## Tommy

> Ok cool.
> 
> Do you think social programs would be more or less expensive than locking up hundreds of "Human Vermin?" in Jails that are now businesses?
> 
> The gap between rich and poor in New Zealand is growing at such a rate that people are "opting out" of regular society.A heavy handed approach to Crime is not going to make the real problem go away.


So long as the risk/reward ratio runs in their favour, social programs are a joke. We've had a couple of generations of Palmers social program, and it hasn't worked. It's a revolving door of scum on 3 digits of convictions. A failure. I read yesterday we are up to a burglary every 7 minutes. Instead of sidelining these arseholes for 6 months at a time (via concurrent sentencing), whereupon they get out and reoffend (and very often while on bail, some are horrendous), when we lock them up again. It's horseshit and you know it. There is demonstrable evidence that deterrent sentencing works.

Edit: Also, to cost of locking them up. It costs MORE to lock em up multiple short durations than less, longer spells. And you know what? Less people get fucked over in the meantime

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## norsk

> So long as the risk/reward ratio runs in their favour, social programs are a joke. We've had a couple of generations of Palmers social program, and it hasn't worked. It's a revolving door of scum on 3 digits of convictions. A failure. I read yesterday we are up to a burglary every 7 minutes. Instead of sidelining these arseholes for 6 months at a time (via concurrent sentencing), whereupon they get out and reoffend (and very often while on bail, some are horrendous), when we lock them up again. It's horseshit and you know it. There is demonstrable evidence that deterrent sentencing works.


I don't "know it" Tommy.

Neither of us are going to win this argument as we both look at this from different veiw points.

People commit crime for a reason,reducing that reason would reduce the offending.If you impose manditory sentencing for armed robbery,then the reason to offend still exists,the method of offending changes.

More and more people are born into social disadvantage in New Zealand,more and more hard working people are finding it harder to get ahead.Society pays the price for people offending.

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## Rushy

> Just seems 98% likely. Petty criminal would be risking a lot with a real pistol in public.


You are risking your life with an air pistol.  A couple of years ago a young fellah was fatally shot by police just a few miles down the road from here when he foolishly pointed a air pistol and thinking it was funny wouldn't put it down when told to do so.

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## Tommy

> I don't "know it" Tommy.
> 
> Neither of us are going to win this argument as we both look at this from different veiw points..


Correct, however, you are in dreamland.




> People commit crime for a reason


Yes, criminality. 




> reducing that reason would reduce the offending


Cool, so rape cos she's hot is on? I spent all my money on codys and ciggies and the TAB on thursday, so the money you have (by not frittering it on these things) is my money, I just have to come get it? What 's your address?




> If you impose manditory sentencing for armed robbery,then the reason to offend still exists,the method of offending change


Nope, you think twice, cos you aren't out by xmas this time around




> More and more people are born into social disadvantage in New Zealand


Yep and most aren't thieving cunts. Some CHOOSE that path. 




> more and more hard working people are finding it harder to get ahead


Minter, I want a spa, my own home, two rentals, a nice boat, missus with bolt on tits, and a mistress with different bolt on tits for variety. Which bank do I rob? Or should I do multiple dairy robberies (the family owned ones, you know, the ones that are struggling to get ahead) and sell the tobacco on facebook, and down the pub? How many dairy robberies is too many?




> Society pays the price for people offending.


Agreed.

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## Maca49

Norske, I see your point, but NZ is a great place to become educated and get ahead, problem is it's a choice and the system now allows you to take what you can from social service and do a bit of theiving to top up and live a lazy life. That's what you have to change, I cannot believe anyone goes thru the schooling system here and cannot read or write, let alone do simple maths. We allow these choices to be available, I don't know the answer, but taking hard working citizens earning ain't really an option.
I old and tend to believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but there are too many soft cocks now that just want to cuddle the poor bastards :O O:

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## Rushy

> I don't "know it" Tommy.
> 
> Neither of us are going to win this argument as we both look at this from different veiw points.
> 
> People commit crime for a reason,reducing that reason would reduce the offending.If you impose manditory sentencing for armed robbery,then the reason to offend still exists,the method of offending changes.
> 
> More and more people are born into social disadvantage in New Zealand,more and more hard working people are finding it harder to get ahead.Society pays the price for people offending.


Norsk your view is fine in theory but in practical reality has not worked so I am with Tommy on this.  We have had a welfare state in New Zealand for several decades now but instead of the various benefits being viewed as a hand up for which there should be gratitude they are seen as a hand out to which there is an overwhelming sense of entitlement by many of the recipients.  I firmly believe that the choices a person makes can overcome any social disadvantage that they have the misfortune to be born into.

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## norsk

> Norske, I see your point, but NZ is a great place to become educated and get ahead, problem is it's a choice and the system now allows you to take what you can from social service and do a bit of theiving to top up and live a lazy life. That's what you have to change, I cannot believe anyone goes thru the schooling system here and cannot read or write, let alone do simple maths. We allow these choices to be available, I don't know the answer, but taking hard working citizens earning ain't really an option.
> I old and tend to believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but there are too many soft cocks now that just want to cuddle the poor bastards


People do though.I would say half the guys I worked with in Kaiangaroa couldn't read or write well.Statistically I should have been a failure too,no School Certificate,dropped out of School,manual labourer etc. However I was raised well and had that support network of family and strong role models.

Most offenders come from broken homes,many were abused as kids,the odds are stacked against them from the start.Add to that limited job prospects,low income communities,historical welfare dependancies.Tommy states they choose to offened,they can't "un-choose" the circumstances they grew up in.

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## Tommy

> People do though.I would say half the guys I worked with in Kaiangaroa couldn't read or write well.Statistically I should have been a failure too,no School Certificate,dropped out of School,manual labourer etc. However I was raised well and had that support network of family and strong role models.
> 
> Most offenders come from broken homes,many were abused as kids,the odds are stacked against them from the start.Add to that limited job prospects,low income communities,historical welfare dependancies.Tommy states they choose to offened,they can't "un-choose" the circumstances they grew up in.


And to go further into that particular failure, we're into politics. Choice is choice. Don't penalise the people who don't make shit life decisions for the actions of those that do. This applies to many aspects of life.

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## norsk

> And to go further into that particular failure, we're into politics. Choice is choice. Don't penalise the people who don't make shit life decisions for the actions of those that do. This applies to many aspects of life.


But you will do.

Privatised prisons need more and more "paying customers".

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## Maca49

Knowing a few on here we have come from similar starts to you and have made our own way through life without privilege, it's a self attitude and a motivation to do some thing with your life. @Rushy I view my super as a god given right! Don't go there! :O O:

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## Tommy

> But you will do.
> 
> Privatised prisons need more and more "paying customers".


Volunteers. I pay.

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## veitnamcam

> Correct, however, you are in dreamland.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, criminality. 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool, so rape cos she's hot is on? I spent all my money on codys and ciggies and the TAB on thursday, so the money you have (by not frittering it on these things) is my money, I just have to come get it? What 's your address?
> ...


Hear Fucken Hear!!!

Tommy for Prime Minister :Thumbsup:

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## Ryan

People taking personal responsibility for their actions would go a long way. 

I'm sick of the "oh he was beaten as a child" type shit I so often read about. Back in the day socially accepted means of disciplining children are regarded as child abuse today. Knowing the difference between right and wrong is not rocket science. Most criminals elect to do what they do through choice, motivated by greed and by the fact that they can't be bothered doing a day's honest work so they feel it is their right to take from others.

Playing the victim and using that as an excuse is a loser's attitude. There are a lot of low-paid law abiding citizens who've experienced hardship too.

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## veitnamcam

> People acknowledging and taking personal responsibility for their actions would go a long way. 
> 
> I'm sick of the "oh he was beaten as a child" type shit I so often read about. Back in the day socially accepted means of disciplining children are regarded as child abuse today. Knowing the difference between right and wrong is not rocket science. Most criminals elect to do what they do through choice, motivated by greed and by the fact that they can't be bothered doing a day's honest work so they feel it is their right to take from others.
> 
> There are a lot of low-paid law abiding citizens who've experienced hardship too. Playing the victim and using that as excuse is a loser's attitude.


Exactly.

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## mikee

> Knowing a few on here we have come from similar starts to you and have made our own way through life without privilege, it's a self attitude and a motivation to do some thing with your life. @Rushy I view my super as a god given right! Don't go there!



No argument from me. I work hard for my $$ and we look after ourselves and yet I find I am constantly being expected to "pay more" or "my share"

Well F#$k me why, really takes away the intensive to work hard when you can do Sweet FA and still get looked after.
Don't get me started about all the bleating about house prices

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## stretch

People commit crimes because their morality threshold is reached, and to the offender, the reward outweighs the risk of being caught and receiving the likely punishment.

Everyone has a different threshold when it comes to committing offences, be it speeding, shoplifting, assault, robbery or murder. Some of us would, under no circumstances, commit any such offence, while the worst of us wouldn't hesitate. The rest of us lie somewhere in between.

Ask yourself this:

1. If there was absolutely no chance of being caught, what crime(s) would you commit? Would you attach that standard capacity mag to your A-cat semi? Would you steal $10 from a stranger? $1000? $1Million? Would you assault or kill an individual of your choice?
2. Now what if there was a 100% chance you would be caught, but the punishment was minor?
3. What if there was a small chance you would be caught, but if you were caught, the punishment was severe?

Everyone has a different morality threshold and a different risk/reward threshold. Improving the chance of catching offenders (more, better policing) and increasing punishments (more jail time etc) are the easy solutions. Changing people's morality thresholds so they don't offend in the first place is the hard solution.

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## Ryan

Many people have exceedingly low morality thresholds.

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## Rushy

> Knowing a few on here we have come from similar starts to you and have made our own way through life without privilege, it's a self attitude and a motivation to do some thing with your life. @Rushy I view my super as a god given right! Don't go there!


I wasn't talking about your super you cranky old codger.

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## Steve123

> Hear Fucken Hear!!!
> 
> Tommy for Prime Minister


Hell no! Tommy would probably ban us from using factory ammo

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## Maca49

> I wasn't talking about your super you cranky old codger.


I'll take that as a compliment! :Redbullsmiley:

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## Maca49

> No argument from me. I work hard for my $$ and we look after ourselves and yet I find I am constantly being expected to "pay more" or "my share"
> 
> Well F#$k me why, really takes away the intensive to work hard when you can do Sweet FA and still get looked after.
> Don't get me started about all the bleating about house prices


Nothing wrong with house prices! They've made me millions!!! Hahahahaha

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## ChrisF

Its really quite simple , its risk vs reward , thats in the real world , however NZ does not live in the real world , the trend has been away from ,  1 ) holding people to account for doing wrong , & 2 ) punishing them to a correct level .
And by being too soft on the crims , we are really telling them its OK to do criminal acts .

Look at how things where say 30yrs ago , a crim virtually never struck a Police Officer , EVER , why they actually knew they would be up in front a real Judge the next day ( not next yr ) , and he would sentence the crim to 6mths minimum , end of short story , a known & imediate consciquence .

Now see what happens , the Lawers & Judges put off sentencing for several mths , and when they have maxed out the legal gravy train money , then 6-12 mths latter they hand down a sentence that is as harsh a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket .

Yrs ago a old Cop in charge of the Police stn cells , had a jumped up woman Lawyer come to see a prisioner , the Old Cop had the guy handcuffed & chained down in the interview room , he tells her he is very violet and will kill her given 1/2 a chance , see says NO , he is not to be treated like a animal , and abuses the hell out of the Old Cop , at this stage he has had enough .
So he does as the lawyer asks , uncuffs/chains him , & knowing whats about to happen , goes for a smoke outside , takes his time  ( he could have stayed outsied the room & been able to respond imediately to trouble/noise etc ) , once he has finished his smoke , comes back inside to see how she is .
Yeap , almost dead , not quite , Old Cop grabs the prisioner puts the cuffs back on him , rings for ambulance .

Guess what , when he next sees her , she is walknig with a permeant limp , and she LISTENs to the Old Cops advise now  , and NEVER interviews a prisoner again with out the prisioner being restrained .

Guess she learned how the real world works , instead of her utopia world , as in all things there is a gap between actual & theory .

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## gonetropo

though i think you mean violent not violet i agree completely

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## Tommy

> Hell no! Tommy would probably ban us from using factory ammo


Then where would the range brass come from? The brass harvest would be dire!

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## ChrisF

Just to illustate a difference , in NZ you can do somethings , and in say the Philippines those same things are not options at all , so all countries are different in what can or should be done .

Here's a true story , but it serves to show you vast difference in what is needs to be done .

Basically , a guy runs a little shop in a small town in the Philippines , he employs a guy to work in the shop , after a short time he realises the guy is stealing from him , so sacks him , pretty std so far, no dramas you think , there is a consquence for his action .
But he thinks he has been treated unfairly ( he has not , hes just a wrongun ) , so he ambushs his old boss , as he leaves his shop on scooter , shots him in the back of the head a couple of times with a 45acp pistol .
So in short he has committed murder , and everyone in the village knows it , and his name and where he lives , and they do nothing .
The family of the young guy killed , rightly want Justice , But as this is the Philippines , things are vastly different from the developed world , so the options are very different , they go to the police & tell them what has happened , and the name & address of the killer , I can tell you , that the cops will say Yeap thanks for that we will look into it , thats a total lie , what they do is stay seated playing cards  ( you are thinking WHY ? , are they doing nothing , because why work when you 1 ) get payed poorly 2 ) can do nothing 3 ) feel if people want them to work they can pay / bribe them to do their actual job  4 ) it maybe a little risky to arrest him ( not too much of a problem as they are heavly armed & have numbers on their side 5 ) it may cause more problems in village ( so they do NOTHING , thats the default for them .

So their are only 3 options available to the family .

1 ) Take the law into their own hands & have either a family member kill him or pay  a contract killer to do it ( this is the cheapest option in terms of money spent ) , and its the quickest .

2 ) Do NOTHING , in NZ you are thinking , that this is not Justice , but maybe you can live with IT , actually this is NOT a option EVER in the Philippiines , because what you have just done is tell everyone in the Village they can steal & kill your family members and donot have to worry about the consquences , as there are none , and now more of your family will be killed & robbed , opps .

3 ) Pay the Cops to arrest him , pay the Cops & Polices chief to hold in the cell , then pay Lawyer & Judge to do thier JOB , and once you have him in prision , you pay the Prision Warden to keep him in prision , and even thou you have payed the Police off ( bribe )  , and the Lawyer & the Judge ( bribe ) , you will still be paying the Prision Warden off evry year you want him to stay in prision , thats what happens in the Philippines .

This is not the way Justice should work , but its the real world for people who live in the Philippines & maybe other 3rd world countries , now just to be crystal clear , the Philippines has a LOT of Laws , written as statues/etc , but is let down by the actions of the services agencys that should make the Laws REAL/Work .

Opps , OK , most people in the Philippines are poor , having said that run thru the 3 options I gave you , and pick , what you think happens most often , remember you are poor , evry poor .

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## ChrisF

Opps , option 3 # is very , very expensive , you are paying off a LOT of people , and as in all things the higher the postion the MORE they want , the Judge gets a whole lot more than say the Cop .

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## Cordite

> I've noticed more and more robberies reported where the dickheads have used air pistols. Of course the media just reports "pistols" as per the below article from today. I wonder if this is damaging the image of legitimate pistol shooters like myself?


  @mcdeee,

Yes.





> If it was 6 months home d for robbing a dairy with a screwdriver  and 10 years maximum security for the same with a pistol you would suddenly see a lot less pistol


   @veitnamcam,

I do see what you mean, but if you've ever been threatened with a knife, or a screwdriver for that matter, you'd wish the perpetrator to also go away for a looong time.  A lethal weapon is a lethal weapon is a lethal weapon, is it not?  Threatening to kill, whatever way, is an extreme act and warrants dire consequences.  You just do NOT point any weapon at anyone, zero tolerance!

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## veitnamcam

> @mcdeee,
> 
> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   @veitnamcam,
> 
> I do see what you mean, but if you've ever been threatened with a knife, or a screwdriver for that matter, you'd wish the perpetrator to also go away for a looong time.  A lethal weapon is a lethal weapon is a lethal weapon, is it not?  Threatening to kill, whatever way, is an extreme act and warrants dire consequences.  You just do NOT point any weapon at anyone, zero tolerance!


Yes I have been threatened with a knife,I knocked him on his arse and picked up his knife (not a recommended  course of action) but a firearm can reach out and kill from a distance you have no opportunity to defend yourself from,A pistol has the potential to shoot say everyone in a dairy in a matter of seconds, a screwdriver does not have the same potential.

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## Paddy79

Here is a way to reduce robberies in dairy's slash tobacco prices by 85% I have never smoked  but I have noticed as tobacco has gone up so has the amount of  violent dairy robberies.
Take the value of the reward out of the crime then what's the point in committing the crime to begin with ?

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## Cordite

> Yes I have been threatened with a knife,I knocked him on his arse and picked up his knife (not a recommended  course of action) but a firearm can reach out and kill from a distance you have no opportunity to defend yourself from,A pistol has the potential to shoot say everyone in a dairy in a matter of seconds, a screwdriver does not have the same potential.


 @veitnamcam

I'm glad you were young and strong enough to defend yourself back in that situation.

Screwdrivers (and knives) do not have the same mass-killing potential as handguns.  This is balanced however by the fact that there are so many more of them, and in many more hands. They therefore might warrant more severe deterrents against abuse, but definitely not less.

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## Jexla

Not sure about you guys, but I'd rather be robbed with an airsoft gun than a knife.

Truthfully if they don't have their fake gun, they're just going to grab a knife out the kitchen.

What would you personally prefer?

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## Cordite

@Jexla

They will rob you, leave you, and you'll have been threatened with your life either way.  You will not know it was an airsoft gun.  Apart from that, yes, safer to have such robberies done with an airsoft gun, but it leaves people harmed either way.

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## Taff

> Here is a way to reduce robberies in dairy's slash tobacco prices by 85% I have never smoked  but I have noticed as tobacco has gone up so has the amount of  violent dairy robberies.
> Take the value of the reward out of the crime then what's the point in committing the crime to begin with ?


How far would you take this, reduce car prices, preventing car thieves, groceries? Prevent shop lifting, reduce the price of electric ? And people will pay there bills ?

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## Paddy79

Speaking of groceries yes, take GST off all fresh produce and fresh meat part of what is fucked up with all young people and older people is all the processed chemicals they are eating because the cheap food is shit food. shit my avocados fruit 10 months of the year but for  a certain period the shops charge it like its gold, me lemon tree all year round, again not cheap in store. 
however people are not robbing the corner store for an expensive car are they? No they robbing it for the smokes and petty cash

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## Jexla

> @Jexla
> 
> They will rob you, leave you, and you'll have been threatened with your life either way.  You will not know it was an airsoft gun.  Apart from that, yes, safer to have such robberies done with an airsoft gun, but it leaves people harmed either way.


Absolutely it does and that's why it's illegal. But doing something like further restricting air guns will not stop the crime, but instead make it more dangerous.

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## P38

Talking to the locals and they will tell you the crime rate here in Florida has been steadily dropping since the introduction of concealed carry.

Home invasion is almost a thing of the past.

One petite blonde chickie, whom I mistakenly took for an anti gun type opened her jacket and showed me her 9 hidden in an inside pocket, locked and loaded all set for the draw if needed.

She told me her and her friends practises several times a month at the local indoor range.

One other chickie had a 40 S&W in the back of her shoulder purse and another in a custom holster in her glove box of her car

Both looked as innocent and harmless as a mouse, but I would try to tangle with them.

They made the point that criminals may think twice before robbing you as they don't know if your armed or not.

Also people here are quick to apologise if they accidentally bump into you and are generally very polite.

Lots of people here carry full time.

Just saying!

Cheers
Pete

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## Paddy79

Also find in the USA those states with open carry permits etc have less gun violence than the states that are far stricter on gun control

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## Cordite

> Absolutely it does and that's why it's illegal. But doing something like further restricting air guns will not stop the crime, but instead make it more dangerous.


Agree.  I have not suggested restricting airguns, knives or screwdrivers.  
           I do not say lockemupanthrowawaydakey or some other extreme vindictive sh*te.
           I simply speak for serious, truly proportional accountability for misuse of any such items.

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## Tommy

> Speaking of groceries yes, take GST off all fresh produce and fresh meat


It's a legislative nightmare. People that complain fresh food is too dear that end up at KFC are bullshitting themselves. Jump on here https://www.facebook.com/nzfs9/ and tell me fresh fruit and veg is too dear. Nah it's the convenience that's the issue, ie laziness. As soon as GST is pulled, the price will bounce right back to where it was, and more will be spent on compliance than what was saved, and KFC will still make bank year in year out.




> however people are not robbing the corner store for an expensive car are they? No they robbing it for the smokes and petty cash


Nope they do it because they are criminal fuckheads. Used to be bars, but eftpos uptake meant far less cash. Then pokies, now tobacco. It's just the crime d'jour.

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## Paddy79

It is not a legislative nightmare to reduce fresh meat and fresh veg by 15% that is a National supporter cop out So fuck off you fuckin dick head and yeah  I bitch about the price of fresh produce and meat and guess what I don't eat KFC or MCDs you fucking self righteous twat infact I don't even do fast food takeaways unless its Thai or Indian

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## Tommy

Chill the fuck out champ

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## Paddy79

> Chill the fuck out champ


don't tell me what to do Jafa

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## Taff

you sound angry paddy

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## Walker

I beg to differ Paddy, I'm afraid Tommy is pretty much on the money. What constitutes fresh fruit and vege? Whats the guide lines and who's going to police it? Drop the GST and growers will just up the price by 15% because they know thats what people will pay.

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## Tommy

Maybe log back on when you're sober mate.

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## Paddy79

Do you know Supermarkets will put up to 400% increase on what the pay the growers for their apples alone
what is fresh  RAW fruit and fresh and veges is pretty self explanatory. any one who can not distinguish between fresh and processed is an idiot
the guidline is if its fresh Raw produce then take away GST, its that simple

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## Paddy79

I am sober I quit drinking altogether in July haven't had a drop since may be that's why I have zero tolerance for idiots now

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## Paddy79

4th of July to be more Specific @Tommy but again another stupid assumption form a JAFA

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## Tommy

> I am sober I quit drinking altogether in July haven't had a drop since may be that's why I have zero tolerance for idiots now


So, you haven't had a drop since May, but quit altogether in July..? Riiiight

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## Tommy

Paddy is an Irish name, you're meant to drink!

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## Paddy79

> So, you haven't had a drop since May, but quit altogether in July..? Riiiight


No July 4th who said anything about May? not I, I was drinking till I made the thread how much is too much
yes it is Irish so I have been told and I have a lot of Irish in me  I quit because I was concerned on the levels I was sinking 
I have become very easily aggravated and angry at small stuff so I apologies for any anger that comes out

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## Paddy79

There was supposed to say a "drop since, may be that's why", now I see the confusion, apologies

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