# Hunting > The Magazine >  Hunting in France. Differences to NZ. Just for reference

## dudz

Although I'm originally English, I lived in France for 14yrs. The gun laws are a lot different there. No firearms safe is required unless you own a handgun. A shooting licence is not a hunting licence. You can shoot targets with a shooting licence but have to pass an exam to hunt (all in French). To obtain a shooting licence you get a 20 euro medical exam to say your heart wont stop when you pull the trigger and then you take that piece of paper in the gun shop with a electric bill to prove your address with 110 euros, then buy your gun. By the way there is hardly any gun crime. (But the police all carry guns and will use them.) Nearly everyone rural owns a firearm and you can defend your home in certain situations.
 Living in NZ I quickly realized all the animals are trapped in the bush, something I would of never of guessed before arriving here. Doesn't happen anywhere in Europe as far as I'm aware.  I look out the window at the bush wondering how I get access , seems odd that I cant just walk directly to get to it.
 In France there is a law that translated means "The right to roam". Meaning farmland is not strictly private even though privately owned. We have the right to walk through farmland whenever we feel like it as long as no damage is caused and gates are shut behind you ( with our dogs if we choose). My garden was 1.5 acres and we have had people going though it with guns after deer.
 The wildlife (game) , wonders in the forest, bush , fields ,and in paddocks with the cows and horses . Most mornings I would experience deer or fox passing across the rural roads, something we take for granted. Just as much traffic there as to here. Hunting is not restricted to the bush. I would walk out of our house with my rifle, walk across 5 or 6 fields containing livestock to hunt. It is polite to ask farmers permission but not law. I've seen hunters with shotguns on the edge of land with their backs to the roads waiting for boar to be chased towards them by the dogs. This is common. Just a few metal signs on the roads warning that a hunt is in progress. Not to say there isn't accidents involving firearms because there is. The tradition is to go out at dawn and hunt in large groups, then take 2hrs lunch with wine, beer and cider then return to the hunt. I've shared a hospital room when I had alcohol poisoning one xmas  :Grin:   with someone who had been out hunting  who had shot half his foot off.  
 I like NZ as you can hunt with an AR style platform which is banned in France as are all military calibers. I like the fact that your licence lasts for 10yrs as opposed to one year and the fact that you can hunt in general with a few exceptions all year as opposed to between September and February.  
 Just a useless lot of information you may not have known.

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## 223nut

" I look out the window at the bush wondering how I get access , seems odd that I cant just walk directly to get to it."

Check put the department of conservation website / parks and recreations / doc maps, tick the box for hunting areas and have a look near to you....

Always interesting to hear about how things are done in other countries.

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## Pengy

2 hour lunch with wine, beer and cider....then resume the hunt  :Wtfsmilie:

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## 30late

Very interesting  post, always good to here how things are done in other country's

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## jackson21

Found that a very interesting read, thanks for sharing.
It kind of lines up with a conversation today with someone who was telling me how hard it is to use suppressors in USA and Australia, that we take for granted here.
We could lose much of our freedoms based on no factual benefit achieved with current Police head Office/UN manifesto goals.

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## Buzo

Thanks dudz, I was hanging out in the countryside in France for a couple of weeks last year and saw heaps of those little deer they have(roe maybe?). I couldn't believe it as i could have shot several a day from the road side. Might take a takedown bow next time.

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## Sideshow

Not all of France is hunted in the way that is described above. Especially about the lunch bit. It is frowned upon to be drunk in public. Also the hunt that I have been going on for the last five years you would be physically removed if you where drunk. 
You also can’t just walk onto land and start shooting. This would be classified as aggravated trespass. 
The rules have also been changed for the last two years in regards to military calibers.

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## dudz

> You also can’t just walk onto land and start shooting. This would be classified as aggravated trespass.


They can and they do. Unless you register with the local Mayor that you dont want your land hunted on and stick no hunting signs up everywhere, they are free to hunt.

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## 6x47

I remember the road signs and guys with shotties when we were doing a cycle trip through the Charente. 
The French gunshops are nothing like ours with rifle brands you've never even heard of.

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## Sideshow

Maybe in your neck of the woods mate but not where I’ve hunted.
You would be moved on very very fast....and not by ya yellow jackets lol

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## dudz

Yellow Jackets are the French protesters lol. Im guessing you go over there to join the hunt and not live there ?. As maybe they are on their best behavior with accompanied guests ?

Dont get me started about lunch times lol. even tradesmen (Artisans) on days of work and long distance lorry drivers all stop in the bars at lunch time and drink. Its tradition and they get a 10 euro lunch rebate on their working tax for this very reason, cider, beer, and wine comes with each lunchtime meal . I used to pull cars out the road side ditches with my tractor on a weekly basis. I've never met a completely sober Frenchman  :Psmiley:

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## dudz

I still have my house in Rural France ( I moved to NZ in 2017 ) if anyone is interested to stay there while touring, hunting and fishing . 6 bedrooms . Open log fires. Parking for up to 10 cars and bbq in the garden. For a fee of course  :Thumbsup:

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## Ryan_Songhurst

I think that part of what amazes us kiwis about "drinking at lunch time" is our perception of drinking, which for us is generally binge drinking. 
Same in South America, their culture draws heavily on their European roots and EVERY meal is served with  alcohol, usually red wine but sometimes beer and spirits also, it wasnt about "getting pissed" at all. We had a cook on our farm in Uruguay and provided all meals for the guys working there and I used to go to town to buy groceries and it seemed like I could never buy enough casks of red wine. A typical lunch involved plenty of meat cooked on the parilla, along with salads, bread (there is also always bread with every meal, proper bread, not your sliced loaf of tiptop) and washed down with Red wine. Then the guys would have their siesta for a couple hours before going back to milk the cows in the afternoon.

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## Brian

Hope that right to roam shit doesn't catch on here.

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## dudz

Wish it did Brian. It makes it so much better. Feels like too many places are private here

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Wish it did Brian. It makes it so much better. Feels like too many places are private here


Good. Long may it last.

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## Russian 22.

> Although I'm originally English, I lived in France for 14yrs. The gun laws are a lot different there. No firearms safe is required unless you own a handgun. A shooting licence is not a hunting licence. You can shoot targets with a shooting licence but have to pass an exam to hunt (all in French). To obtain a shooting licence you get a 20 euro medical exam to say your heart wont stop when you pull the trigger and then you take that piece of paper in the gun shop with a electric bill to prove your address with 110 euros, then buy your gun. By the way there is hardly any gun crime. (But the police all carry guns and will use them.) Nearly everyone rural owns a firearm and you can defend your home in certain situations.
>  Living in NZ I quickly realized all the animals are trapped in the bush, something I would of never of guessed before arriving here. Doesn't happen anywhere in Europe as far as I'm aware.  I look out the window at the bush wondering how I get access , seems odd that I cant just walk directly to get to it.
>  In France there is a law that translated means "The right to roam". Meaning farmland is not strictly private even though privately owned. We have the right to walk through farmland whenever we feel like it as long as no damage is caused and gates are shut behind you ( with our dogs if we choose). My garden was 1.5 acres and we have had people going though it with guns after deer.
>  The wildlife (game) , wonders in the forest, bush , fields ,and in paddocks with the cows and horses . Most mornings I would experience deer or fox passing across the rural roads, something we take for granted. Just as much traffic there as to here. Hunting is not restricted to the bush. I would walk out of our house with my rifle, walk across 5 or 6 fields containing livestock to hunt. It is polite to ask farmers permission but not law. I've seen hunters with shotguns on the edge of land with their backs to the roads waiting for boar to be chased towards them by the dogs. This is common. Just a few metal signs on the roads warning that a hunt is in progress. Not to say there isn't accidents involving firearms because there is. The tradition is to go out at dawn and hunt in large groups, then take 2hrs lunch with wine, beer and cider then return to the hunt. I've shared a hospital room when I had alcohol poisoning one xmas   with someone who had been out hunting  who had shot half his foot off.  
>  I like NZ as you can hunt with an AR style platform which is banned in France as are all military calibers. I like the fact that your licence lasts for 10yrs as opposed to one year and the fact that you can hunt in general with a few exceptions all year as opposed to between September and February.  
>  Just a useless lot of information you may not have known.


What sort of semi automatic rifles re you allowed to own.?


> Wish it did Brian. It makes it so much better. Feels like too many places are private here


I think that the NZ attitudes toward land in general would mean it would be a cock up. Over there you have lots of people who obviously can't all own land. But here there's not as many people and lots of public land.

So you would end up with a lot of people shooting dangerously and stuffing it up for the rest of us. But I think it is not a bad idea. If implemented properly.

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## Brian

it's not easy to get to own a farm its your backyard. Why shouldn't you have control of who enters it.

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## dudz

You can have semi autos In France, but until last year all military calibers were not allowed (556/223 ,etc) . Rifles that look similar to military rifles are banned in hunting. Id say where we lived 80% of the land is privately owned by cow/pig and sheep farmers. Its a mutual respect that people can hunt across each-others land . a lot of English were frowned at as we tend to buy a property with land then apply for a no hunt permit ( Chasse Interdit ) as English as a nation are not used to this. 67 million people in France as opposed to 55 million in England (France being twice the land mass)

Hey, Im not here to change any laws in NZ. Just enlightening people how things work elsewhere. I liked it because I didnt even need a car to go hunting. Id shoot sling it over my shoulder and walk home. No need for helicopters or emergency beacons

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## Russian 22.

> it's not easy to get to own a farm its your backyard. Why shouldn't you have control of who enters it.


If it's not easy then there's bound to be an argument for right to roam. But as I said. With the amount of public land about it isn't necessary here 

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## Sideshow

As maybe they are on their best behavior with accompanied guests ?
 :Psmiley: [/QUOTE]
No I chose who I hunt with with great care. No wonder you moved to nz if you used to hunt with a bunch of drunks. 

The Kaimai ranges is in veiw from Morrinsville if you would care to look out the window of the Castle pub! 
Just let the rest of us know when your going. As you said yourself you have never met a truly sober Frenchman
Mind you if you hunted it from the Waikato side you would sober up very fast just by getting out of your truck and walking to the top of Wairere falls would make you spew ya breakfast if done drunk :Sick: 

Sad that you tar all your former countrymen with the same brush.  :Sad: 
Have been met with nothing but good friendship and hospitality by the French that Ive hunted with.

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## Shootm

> As maybe they are on their best behavior with accompanied guests ?


No I chose who I hunt with with great care. No wonder you moved to nz if you used to hunt with a bunch of drunks. 

The Kaimai ranges is in veiw from Morrinsville if you would care to look out the window of the Castle pub! 
Just let the rest of us know when your going. As you said yourself you have never met a truly sober Frenchman
Mind you if you hunted it from the Waikato side you would sober up very fast just by getting out of your truck and walking to the top of Wairere falls would make you spew ya breakfast if done drunk :Sick: 

Sad that you tar all your former countrymen with the same brush.  :Sad: 
Have been met with nothing but good friendship and hospitality by the French that Ive hunted with.[/QUOTE]

Ive read this differently to you and dont think its all about hunting drunk. Yes there is a 2 hr lunch with alcohol but as I read its more about tradition and having a drink with lunch. I guess what Im trying to say is dont have a go at  @dudz And just for the record I dont know the guy. He has just put up a post and I found it an interesting read. My 2cents worth.

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## dudz

No worry's Shootm . Theres always one complete Knob that thinks he knows better.  I lived there and raised my children there, and know a heck lot more about French life than he does obviously. I have many French friends. Hes a tourist nothing more.  Did I say I used to hunt with them ?? no... I never have hunted with any French person, that was just a blind assumption of yours. But I know them and have drank beer with them.  You are just a complete cock

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## ebf

@dudz, interesting thread  :Thumbsup: 

in france, is the firearms/shooting license per person or per firearm ?

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## dudz

> @dudz, interesting thread 
> 
> in france, is the firearms/shooting license per person or per firearm ?


Per person

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## dudz

Here are some good reads  :Thumbsup:  

Hunting in the Languedoc in the South of France

https://www.frenchconnections.co.uk/...french-hunters

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-France.html

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## GDMP

It depends what sort of firearm..handguns are regulated by numbers as are certain semi-auto type mllitary rifles.Rifles in 5.56 and 7.62 nato etc were never banned entirely,but they were very much restricted as to who could own or use them.Whereas rifles in say 300 savage or .270 Win were not.Also semi-auto rifles for hunting are only able to have very small (either 2 or 3?) shot mags used with them nowadays.I don't think black powder guns (including pistols) are regulated at all,unless they have changed the rules recently.Up until about 20 years ago you could even buy single shot .22 rimfire pistols (salon guns) without any sort of license at all....

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## dudz

yep black powder still not under any Licences. Mags for semi autos 3  I think, 5 in a bolt action. I can ask My eldest Son, hes still there. Shotguns you need to have a licence for but no need to register them at the Gendarmerie , but rifles, handguns etc need to be.
 Up until 2017 at least, it was against the law to hunt with a suppressor but Ok to use at the range.
 You need to be 15 years old to own a shotgun and/or black powder revolver

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## GDMP

A pity blackpowder guns are so regulated in NZ,would be quite good to use percussion revolvers etc for recreational shooting like they can there and in some other places also.....

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## Brian

I guess you can if you get an original one.

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## oraki

> Hope that right to roam shit doesn't catch on here.


It has caught on.... Ive got a couple of fellas who when confronted told me that theyll walk where ever, and whenever they want. Pointed out its private property, and they wouldnt like it if I walked through their backyard. They told me to go for it, but dont think youll make it out. When I went to the cops, they basically told me to suck it up, its not worth the grief thatll come out of it. Its to easy for them (well not them, but prospects)to damage the tractors, headers and crops down there. After that yarn I had with them, a car was doing slow drive bys of the house for week afterwards. 
Just turning a blind eye to it now, and barred the boy from going down there by himself. 
Not ideal, but just cant be fecked with the potential fallout of it.

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## Beetroot

> Hope that right to roam shit doesn't catch on here.


I don't think it'd work in New Zealand, too many brainless idiots who would screw it up. That's why so many public tracks through private property get closed or access restricted.

Every time I go to the UK I am amazed at how accessible the country side is, so many public rights of way you can walk, cycle or ride your horse.
There's actually enough bridal ways you can ride a horse the full length of the UK without ridding on roads.

Whilst NZ has lots of public land, the countryside is not at all accessible compared to other countries, and basically means you need to drive somewhere.
I stayed at a place in rural Devon and walked through some amazing woodland and farmland, had a nice breakfast at a pub and walked home again.

I wish NZ didn't require you to drive everywhere, but if you tried to implement something similar here people would screw it up quickly.

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## Beetroot

Thanks dudz, interesting read, I'd love to visit France hopefully will be able to get there in the next few years.
What part of France were you living in?

I visited the UK in September and went for a walk one morning in the Cotswolds, was keeping my eyes peeled for any wildlife an happened to spot some Roe deer is a paddock.
It's amazing to see wild game living so close to villages and main roads, quite different than NZ.

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## dudz

Well like I said earlier, Im not here to change things , but it is frustrating when all your life you are used to being able to walk almost anywhere.  Like you say about bridal paths... My missis has ridden horses all her life. In England never needed a float (or horse box) nor in France. in fact in France she got on her horse right outside the door, and rode for 20kms without crossing a road. I used to do the same with my 280 Sherco trials bike. Can even ride horses on all the country roads in Europe and 'most' cars respectively slowly overtake.  I love the countryside, especially the fields and walking freely through them with my dog . Now we are here the dog stays in the garden and I look across the fields wondering if there is public access anywhere ?.. May not sound like a big deal to most people, but its sure hard to get used to for us.
   @Beetroot ...  Ive got a permit for hangawera hills, and do you know Ive been around here for 12 months and I still dont know where the access is  :Grin: 
 Lived in Bretagne (North West)

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## Sideshow

> No worry's Shootm . Theres always one complete Knob that thinks he knows better.  I lived there and raised my children there, and know a heck lot more about French life than he does obviously. I have many French friends. Hes a tourist nothing more.  Did I say I used to hunt with them ?? no... I never have hunted with any French person, that was just a blind assumption of yours. But I know them and have drank beer with them.  You are just a complete cock


Never hunted with a French person yet you assume that there all drunk after a 2 hour lunch! Hence the comment about tarring your fellow countryman with the same brush. 
And you call me a cock? Guess thats your blind assumption.  Ive hunted there and lived there so no not a tourist that would be another one of your blind assumptions! You also state that the law changed last year in regards to military calibers are NO it was 2013. 
So from saturday (7th September 2013) the caliber than you can not use are : 50bmg, 14.5x114, 223, 7.62x39, 5.45x39 and some caliber under autorisation as: 45acp and 9mm para.

All the other one are allowed.

So the 308, 30.06, 303 etc, you can use them for stalking and driven boar in France.

The smallest caliber allowed for the hunt is still the 222. For the semi automatic rifle it's still the same: maximum 3 shot (2 in mag and 1 in chamber). and still no moderator on any rifle.

Any other questions?

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## Russian 22.

> Well like I said earlier, Im not here to change things , but it is frustrating when all your life you are used to being able to walk almost anywhere.  Like you say about bridal paths... My missis has ridden horses all her life. In England never needed a float (or horse box) nor in France. in fact in France she got on her horse right outside the door, and rode for 20kms without crossing a road. I used to do the same with my 280 Sherco trials bike. Can even ride horses on all the country roads in Europe and 'most' cars respectively slowly overtake.  I love the countryside, especially the fields and walking freely through them with my dog . Now we are here the dog stays in the garden and I look across the fields wondering if there is public access anywhere ?.. May not sound like a big deal to most people, but its sure hard to get used to for us.
>    @Beetroot ...  Ive got a permit for hangawera hills, and do you know Ive been around here for 12 months and I still dont know where the access is 
>  Lived in Bretagne (North West)


Email doc. Or have a look on the doc maps. Or even the doc website page about the place you have a permit for. 

If that's no help. Check the walking access commission website. They'll tell you paper roads and normal roads you're allowed to go on. 

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## Friwi

I have read Dudz initial post, and I will try my best to bring all the corrections and misinterpretations on the subjects that he talked about. 
I am just gathering the info at the moment on the subject.

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## Sideshow

@dudz if your wife is still into horse ridding try this https://www.sportwaikato.org.nz/dire...pony-club.aspx

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## GDMP

You don't have to 'suck it up' Oraki.....they were breaking the law by being there,after being told to leave.Maybe you need to make a formal complaint to try and get some  thing done here.

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## GDMP

> I guess you can if you get an original one.


Nope,you cannot actually use an original one either in NZ...not without being a endorsed/ club shooter and all the red tape that entails.

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## Beetroot

> It has caught on.... I’ve got a couple of fellas who when confronted told me that they’ll walk where ever, and whenever they want. Pointed out it’s private property, and they wouldn’t like it if I walked through their backyard. They told me to go for it, but don’t think you’ll make it out. When I went to the cops, they basically told me to suck it up, it’s not worth the grief that’ll come out of it. It’s to easy for them (well not them, but prospects)to damage the tractors, headers and crops down there. After that yarn I had with them, a car was doing slow drive bys of the house for week afterwards. 
> Just turning a blind eye to it now, and barred the boy from going down there by himself. 
> Not ideal, but just can’t be fecked with the potential fallout of it.


I feel for you, it's terrible that you come out the loser in all this and if the Police get involved you would likely end up in a worse position.

If I were you I would make sure an official complaint was laid with Police and you have a copy of that.
I'd also try record all conversations you have with the Police, whether that be email trails or jot a few notes down and get the cop you are talking to to sign it, along with their name and QID number.
That way if thing escalate and you find yourself on the wrong side of the law you have proof that you laid complaints with the Police at every incident, and have proof that they said they weren't going to do anything about it.

I'd get some cameras installed around yards and shed too.
If things hit the fan (which hopefully they wont) you need as much physical evidence as possible.

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## Moa Hunter

> It has caught on.... I’ve got a couple of fellas who when confronted told me that they’ll walk where ever, and whenever they want. Pointed out it’s private property, and they wouldn’t like it if I walked through their backyard. They told me to go for it, but don’t think you’ll make it out. When I went to the cops, they basically told me to suck it up, it’s not worth the grief that’ll come out of it. It’s to easy for them (well not them, but prospects)to damage the tractors, headers and crops down there. After that yarn I had with them, a car was doing slow drive bys of the house for week afterwards. 
> Just turning a blind eye to it now, and barred the boy from going down there by himself. 
> Not ideal, but just can’t be fecked with the potential fallout of it.


Pay someone to burn the car at their place

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## csmiffy

> Pay someone to burn the car at their place


From his comments I gleaned that their place is probably a compound. 
The people there wouldn't take to kindly to anyone being there and are organised enough that it would almost have to be a military exercise to work.

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## oraki

I have had an offer to make the problem go away.  Then you owe someone else cant be bothered. 
Burn the car... is on camera when it was driving past, the number plates were different each time. 
Make official complaint. I said I want it of the record what had happened. He said if he wrote anything down, it had to be investigated. Back to square one. I work odd hrs and at night the nearest cop is 1/2 hr away. 
They were locked up a while back but are floating around again... pun intended 
Used be holiday homes and kids were allowed up to the first bridge in the creek. Now its full of dopers growers and nohopers who we are feeding their habits through taxes. 

Anyway, once harvest is off, its someone elses problem. Going through the contracts now. Hes looking at taking out the trees and putting in a pivot, so their spot will be exposed.

The cop did suggest we be irresponsible one year when burning off. He said dont put a firebreak in and what for the right wind. Hopefully wipe them all out, do everyone a favour. 

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## GDMP

I despair for the future of this country,with some of the people in it......you can't act,the law refuses to act.....so therefore you are essentially in a situation where there is no law and its just mob rule....

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## mikee

> I despair for the future of this country,with some of the people in it......you can't act,the law refuses to act.....so therefore you are essentially in a situation where there is no law and its just mob rule....


no because you can guarantee that if YOU acted then the Police who have been so helpful up till now would be charging you rather than actually sorting the issue out in the first place

I too despair and often wonder who you should call if you have a need for "actual' help by actual trust worthy people

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## outlander

> Well like I said earlier, Im not here to change things , but it is frustrating when all your life you are used to being able to walk almost anywhere.  Like you say about bridal paths... My missis has ridden horses all her life. In England never needed a float (or horse box) nor in France. in fact in France she got on her horse right outside the door, and rode for 20kms without crossing a road. I used to do the same with my 280 Sherco trials bike. Can even ride horses on all the country roads in Europe and 'most' cars respectively slowly overtake.  I love the countryside, especially the fields and walking freely through them with my dog . Now we are here the dog stays in the garden and I look across the fields wondering if there is public access anywhere ?.. May not sound like a big deal to most people, but its sure hard to get used to for us.
>    @Beetroot ...  Ive got a permit for hangawera hills, and do you know Ive been around here for 12 months and I still dont know where the access is 
>  Lived in Bretagne (North West)


The explanation is in our immigration policy. Think in terms of 'open door' and it's been that way for 25 odd years. NZ as we knew it is gone and it's all about greed and every bugger for themselves prevails now.

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## GDMP

Personal greed and every bugger for themselves....yeah that pretty much sums up our country now.What we had before was much better.

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## dudz

> The explanation is in our immigration policy. Think in terms of 'open door' and it's been that way for 25 odd years. NZ as we knew it is gone and it's all about greed and every bugger for themselves prevails now.


we had better hope it doesn't become like England has. Its only taken the last 10 yrs or so to become a completely different country. Not going to open that conversation.

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## Beetroot

> we had better hope it doesn't become like England has. Its only taken the last 10 yrs or so to become a completely different country. Not going to open that conversation.


NZ is on the fast track down the road the UK took.
My in laws emigrated from the UK about 12 years ago, they look back at what they left and what NZ is today and wish they had stayed.

It's extremely sad seeing NZ turn to shit, but in the last 5 years I've seen so many changes for the worse it's hard to see where it's going to end, totally agree with the greed and every bugger for themselves mentality.
I just hope for my future childrens sake that I've got in early enough, as the way I see it now unless you have wealthy parent's who sit comfortably in the middle class you are pretty much screwed.

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## Moa Hunter

> I despair for the future of this country,with some of the people in it......you can't act,the law refuses to act.....so therefore you are essentially in a situation where there is no law and its just mob rule....


Really this how the world has always been. A white middle class person of Anglo Saxon decent might consider that everything is wonderful in the world whilst at the same time right beside them a coloured person might feel oppressed and subjugated. The 'Law' is really only there to protect the interests of the wealthy and influential individuals

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## Moa Hunter

> No worry's Shootm . Theres always one complete Knob that thinks he knows better.  I lived there and raised my children there, and know a heck lot more about French life than he does obviously. I have many French friends. Hes a tourist nothing more.  Did I say I used to hunt with them ?? no... I never have hunted with any French person, that was just a blind assumption of yours. But I know them and have drank beer with them.  You are just a complete cock


 @dudz, By resorting to the 'primary school yard' type reference of another Forum Member as genitalia, you have destroyed any credibility that you had. There is no need for you to get fired up and loose your temper here just because someone disagrees with your egotistical and condescending self. PS your grammar and sentence structure needs work

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## Russian 22.

> Really this how the world has always been. A white middle class person of Anglo Saxon decent might consider that everything is wonderful in the world whilst at the same time right beside them a coloured person might feel oppressed and subjugated. The 'Law' is really only there to protect the interests of the wealthy and influential individuals


What does colour have to do with this?

professional spooker

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## Moa Hunter

> What does colour have to do with this?
> 
> professional spooker


 Merely an example of the different realities for different sections of society. Colour and race influences the response of the Police if what I see on the TV news and read of history is correct. But again only using this as an example to illustrate a point and I'm sure that there are better examples than mine.

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## Russian 22.

> Merely an example of the different realities for different sections of society. Colour and race influences the response of the Police if what I see on the TV news and read of history is correct. But again only using this as an example to illustrate a point and I'm sure that there are better examples than mine.


Maybe if different sections of society didn't commit more crime than others they wouldn't be treated the way they allege happens.

professional spooker

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## GDMP

> Really this how the world has always been. A white middle class person of Anglo Saxon decent might consider that everything is wonderful in the world whilst at the same time right beside them a coloured person might feel oppressed and subjugated. The 'Law' is really only there to protect the interests of the wealthy and influential individuals


I could just as easily argue that contemporary NZ,if anything,usually treats certain 'people of colour' better under the law than the Anglo majority.So much for everyone being treated the same.

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## mikee

> I could just as easily argue that contemporary NZ,if anything,usually treats certain 'people of colour' better under the law than the Anglo majority.So much for everyone being treated the same.


Yeah everyone is equal but some are more equal than others............................if you are are middle agedeuropean male then you are less equal than everyone else AND Everything is all YOUR fault so you had better start paying and apologising NOW.

I was quite interested in the original thread, now not so much

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## Moa Hunter

> I could just as easily argue that contemporary NZ,if anything,usually treats certain 'people of colour' better under the law than the Anglo majority.So much for everyone being treated the same.


Yes, you could argue that and again that would be a persons perception from their place in society. Without evidence it is opinion. However this is getting away from the point I wished to make regarding an earlier post.

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## Moa Hunter

> Yeah everyone is equal but some are more equal than others............................if you are are middle agedeuropean male then you are less equal than everyone else AND Everything is all YOUR fault so you had better start paying and apologising NOW.
> 
> I was quite interested in the original thread, now not so much


 @mikee I think you have you quotes mixed up, I believe it is that ' Men and Women are equal, Men are just a bit more equal than Women'

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## Cigar

A slight change in direction.....
I really enjoyed seeing the wildlife when travelling around Canada and the US - heaps of deer, elk, moose and smaller critters, even in town. I took several photos of deer in motel car parks in the likes of Rapid City.
But it's easy to see you can't have it both ways. You either have game everywhere and very restricted hunting, or you have largely unrestricted hunting and less game (or at least less widespread and visible).
If they didn't have the hunting seasons and rules in North America(and probably Europe too) it would be very similar to here. Game doesn't survive or hang around when it gets shot at every time it sticks it's nose out of cover.

I don't think the right to roam thing would work here, too many f-wits who would abuse it. It might work if everyone grew up with that system knowing what was acceptable, and society and the law had developed to stamp out the bad behaviour.

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## Marty Henry

We hosted a french exchange ag student several years ago. He was amazed we were able to shoot hares whenever we wanted. He took wvery opportunity to go after them. They were a sought after game species back home in Limouge.

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## GDMP

> Yes, you could argue that and again that would be a persons perception from their place in society. Without evidence it is opinion. However this is getting away from the point I wished to make regarding an earlier post.


No shortage of hard evidence there.....for those willing to see it.

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## outlander

> No shortage of hard evidence there.....for those willing to see it.


Bugger, I was going to say that... :Psychotic:

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## outlander

> Really this how the world has always been. A white middle class person of Anglo Saxon decent might consider that everything is wonderful in the world whilst at the same time right beside them a coloured person might feel oppressed and subjugated. The 'Law' is really only there to protect the interests of the wealthy and influential individuals


You've lost me with this gem of information. How do I tie it all into my little bag of happiness for a white lower class person of Anglo Saxon decent? Don't hold back, explain it all, warts and all. Thanks. :Zomg:

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## Flyblown

:Wtfsmilie:  ?

Was going to make a comment about shooting in France... thought I'd catch up on things first to see if its already been said... instead I see its time for a couple of our mates on here to put their Red Bands in the freezer for a while!

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## mikee

Well to get things back on track. 2 of the hunting dog breeds that really interest me are from France,
the Braque d'Auvergne 

and the Braque Francais.


 Their hunting dogs mainly seem to be bred for performance and not looks

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## Flyblown

I reckon some of those Braque Francais look fantastic. Google it and there’s some pretty staunch and wise looking dogs out there. Admittedly one or two of the examples look a bit too leggy with small heads, but for the most part I think they’re handsome as.

What I was going to say about French hunting earlier was that my only French friend who hunts in France, and here from time to time, has in the past complained bitterly about the very poor safety record over there. Lots of accidental hunting deaths every year, like a couple of dozen. Self inflicted, or shooting someone else. I remember saying something off hand and smartarse like ‘its because the population is a lot higher’ and getting a gallic bollocking. 

Why my mate thought it was a lot worse in France compared to Germany or Poland or wherever I don’t know. But whatever the reality of it, despite being a hardcore Frog he was extremely condescending about the hunting community’s safety record, and associated attitudes. Maybe @Friwi can comment as I don’t really know if this perception I have from my mate is accurate or not.

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## Russian 22.

> Well to get things back on track. 2 of the hunting dog breeds that really interest me are from France,
> the Braque d'Auvergne 
> Attachment 101749
> and the Braque Francais.
> Attachment 101750
> 
>  Their hunting dogs mainly seem to be bred for performance and not looks


How come a Brittany isn't of interest?

professional spooker

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## Moa Hunter

> You've lost me with this gem of information. How do I tie it all into my little bag of happiness for a white lower class person of Anglo Saxon decent? Don't hold back, explain it all, warts and all. Thanks.


As I see it, historically in this country the people of Anglo Saxon decent ( of which I am one ) have had greater opportunities to hunt on private land and have on average been treated better under the law than other members of society. That has been their reality. Now that this is changing - as far as access for hunting with more and more exclusion from private land we might feel that 'rights' are being lost across the board, because properties are being bought by non Kiwis and previous access closed off. My point was that this situation has been the reality for NZ Maori since the arrival of the Anglo Saxon settlers and now it is the turn of the Anglo Saxon Kiwi to also loose what they considered 'rights'. In France I am quite sure that prior to the Revolution there were no rights to roam for the common person and now there are so things change. By my comment that 'Really this is how the world has always been' I mean that people are naturally selfish and don't want to share what they have on their properties, they want to excludes others especially those who are not of their race, class, religion etc. The rich will and have, always experienced greater freedoms and protection of their property rights than the poor. As the population increases this situation will only get worse.
There is an answer to these problems of access / exclusion and that is for hunters to unite into a single group and form a powerful lobby group. We have seen an example of what that can achieve recently with the Government reaction to the Tahr cull protests. Here in the South Island there are dozens of examples of public land which has access to it controlled by a private owner. Much of the High Country has been Crown land leased to Stations with perpetual leases. Many of these properties have sold part of their lease back to the Crown for cash and also received freehold rights to the remainder of the property. Because no public access easements have been established I cannot access that public land of which I am a part owner without permission from the land owner. I hope this answers your question @outlander without sidetracking / buggering this thread further.

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## outlander

> As I see it, historically in this country the people of Anglo Saxon decent ( of which I am one ) have had greater opportunities to hunt on private land and have on average been treated better under the law than other members of society. That has been their reality. Now that this is changing - as far as access for hunting with more and more exclusion from private land we might feel that 'rights' are being lost across the board, because properties are being bought by non Kiwis and previous access closed off. My point was that this situation has been the reality for NZ Maori since the arrival of the Anglo Saxon settlers and now it is the turn of the Anglo Saxon Kiwi to also loose what they considered 'rights'. In France I am quite sure that prior to the Revolution there were no rights to roam for the common person and now there are so things change. By my comment that 'Really this is how the world has always been' I mean that people are naturally selfish and don't want to share what they have on their properties, they want to excludes others especially those who are not of their race, class, religion etc. The rich will and have, always experienced greater freedoms and protection of their property rights than the poor. As the population increases this situation will only get worse.
> There is an answer to these problems of access / exclusion and that is for hunters to unite into a single group and form a powerful lobby group. We have seen an example of what that can achieve recently with the Government reaction to the Tahr cull protests. Here in the South Island there are dozens of examples of public land which has access to it controlled by a private owner. Much of the High Country has been Crown land leased to Stations with perpetual leases. Many of these properties have sold part of their lease back to the Crown for cash and also received freehold rights to the remainder of the property. Because no public access easements have been established I cannot access that public land of which I am a part owner without permission from the land owner. I hope this answers your question @outlander without sidetracking / buggering this thread further.


I agree with you. Thanks for taking the time to explain your stance. All the best in the new year.

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## mikee

> How come a Brittany isn't of interest?
> 
> professional spooker


I prefer short haired dogs as they bring less of the outside inside, also short hair dogs are easier to remove "that stuff they rolled in" off  :Grin:

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## Russian 22.

> I prefer short haired dogs as they bring less of the outside inside, also short hair dogs are easier to remove "that stuff they rolled in" off


I thought came in short hair. He more you know

professional spooker

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## dudz

> @dudz, By resorting to the 'primary school yard' type reference of another Forum Member as genitalia, you have destroyed any credibility that you had. There is no need for you to get fired up and loose your temper here just because someone disagrees with your egotistical and condescending self. PS your grammar and sentence structure needs work


 :Grin:

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## Sideshow

I feel NZ dose have a certain right to roam policy.
Go into any national park and you can go of track and walk freely where ever you want, so long as you stay in the park boundaries :Thumbsup:  thats one of the joys of hunting in NZ.
England dose not have a right to roam policy! But they do have a lot of footpaths, bridle ways and green lanes. Which means that you can walk across most of England. These tracks cross private land. The land owner cannot block our move these right of ways. Even if the owner has crops on them. They must still leave a clear line of access. If they have cattle in the paddock then they must leave a cow with any bull.
As a walker you only have the right to walk on the footpaths and you must keep your dog under close supervision.
As a hunter you can shoot over these footpaths. So long as you dont hinder our frighten users. This dose not mean that a user can block stop the hunters shooting party. This would then fall into trespass and social disorder. (The local shoot which Im involved in has two footpath and a bridle way running through it so we are very clued up on the law and what we can and cant do)! We also have a track that runs through the shoot that is used by the public this is closed for one day a year so that it dose not become a footpath.
Scotland on the other hand dose have a right to roam policy.
Not sure about Wales.

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## Moa Hunter

> I have had an offer to make the problem go away.  Then you owe someone else cant be bothered. 
> Burn the car... is on camera when it was driving past, the number plates were different each time. 
> Make official complaint. I said I want it of the record what had happened. He said if he wrote anything down, it had to be investigated. Back to square one. I work odd hrs and at night the nearest cop is 1/2 hr away. 
> They were locked up a while back but are floating around again... pun intended 
> Used be holiday homes and kids were allowed up to the first bridge in the creek. Now its full of dopers growers and nohopers who we are feeding their habits through taxes. 
> 
> Anyway, once harvest is off, its someone elses problem. Going through the contracts now. Hes looking at taking out the trees and putting in a pivot, so their spot will be exposed.
> 
> The cop did suggest we be irresponsible one year when burning off. He said dont put a firebreak in and what for the right wind. Hopefully wipe them all out, do everyone a favour. 


In a serious answer to your problem @oraki , if you have asked the Police for assistance etc and they have not acted on the matter, then the best step is to go to your local MP and raise it with them. Now this is the important part : The Police MUST act when they receive a request from an MP - no excuses, drop everything else and Act !!

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## shooternz

> 2 hour lunch with wine, beer and cider....then resume the hunt


They are very good with self control you very rarely see drunks in France a glass of wine beer or cider is quite normal with lunch, In NZ Oz or the US it would be  a six pack
we have a lot to learn about civilised behaviour

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## mikee

> They are very good with self control you very rarely see drunks in France a glass of wine beer or cider is quite normal with lunch, In NZ Oz or the US it would be  a six pack
> we have a lot to learn about civilised behaviour


Yep, when I was in Japan they had beer vending machines all over the place and no problems, could not even imagine the carnage that would cause here. Went on a brewery tour of Asahi  brewery and at the end "all you can drink for 30 minutes" all very civilised. In NZ or Aust that would seen as a personal challenge to drink as much as possible before the 30 mins ends!!!

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## GDMP

> They are very good with self control you very rarely see drunks in France a glass of wine beer or cider is quite normal with lunch, In NZ Oz or the US it would be  a six pack
> we have a lot to learn about civilised behaviour


Going by some of the riots we have seen lately,so do the French......

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## shooternz

The rioters are the grubby peasants not suitable people to have hunting licences

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## Ryan

> The rioters are the grubby peasants not suitable people to have hunting licences

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