# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  F-Class

## Bugger That

Who here shoot it? I have completely lost touch whos at the top of the heap and what are the numbers like?

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## 6x47

The numbers are small compared to F-TR simply because of the costs involved. Chewing through a more than one barrel a season is out of the budget for many, and the initial outlay/component costs are more than F-TR.

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## zimmer

At a lot of the regional champ shoots the number of F Class shooters now equals the the traditional Target Rifle class shooters. So it does continue to increase in popularity, whilst TR continues to decline. Like 6x47 FTR shooters generally outnumber FO shooters maybe around 2:1 or greater. FO has become a drag race where obviously you still need the shooting skills but money talks.

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## ebf

The Taranaki range is still closed, closest range would probably be Otorahanga or Whatawhata in Hamilton going north or Cheltenham going south.

There seems to be quite a swing to more moderate chambering in FO at the moment, several 260s, 6.5x47, straight 284 etc.

FTR is definitely is where it is at for competition, next season we should have a really strong group, there are several TR shooters changing over, so it should be good.

Check Welcome to the NRA NZ | National Rifle Association of New Zealand for club contacts, calendar etc. Pretty dead till new season starts in Sept. Results are there as well if you want to see who-is-who.

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## lost

Yup, the Okato range has been closed for a bit and the Hawera range has been given its notice to shut too.. There goes the all the clubs in Taranaki  :Sad:

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## zimmer

> Yup, the Okato range has been closed for a bit and the Hawera range has been given its notice to shut too.. There goes the all the clubs in Taranaki


Sorry to hear that - what is the issue causing Hawera's closure?  Long while since I shot there but always enjoyed the vista - boats cruising past in the distance  :Psmiley:

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## lost

> Sorry to hear that - what is the issue causing Hawera's closure?  Long while since I shot there but always enjoyed the vista - boats cruising past in the distance


Exactly that reason.. Something along the lines of there were contracted divers in the water at the time, but outside of the red zone.  Who then alerted the police, and so forth..

Awesome range that one, tricky winds off the coast too!

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## Gillie

That is nothing new though, wonder what the difference was with this one. Be freaking annoying to loose that range as well. 

Fingers crossed another endeavour comes to fruition then - won't help the NRA guys so much though.

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## Hades

I'm very new to F-TR.  Loving the competition.  As well as that though, I feel that getting out there and joining a club is going a small way to keeping it alive.

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## zimmer

> I'm very new to F-TR.  Loving the competition.  As well as that though, I feel that getting out there and joining a club is going a small way to keeping it alive.


  @Hades where are you shooting? Cheltenham or Paki Paki?

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## Bugger That

> The Taranaki range is still closed, closest range would probably be Otorahanga or Whatawhata in Hamilton going north or Cheltenham going south.
> 
> There seems to be quite a swing to more moderate chambering in FO at the moment, several 260s, 6.5x47, straight 284 etc.
> 
> FTR is definitely is where it is at for competition, next season we should have a really strong group, there are several TR shooters changing over, so it should be good.
> 
> Check Welcome to the NRA NZ | National Rifle Association of New Zealand for club contacts, calendar etc. Pretty dead till new season starts in Sept. Results are there as well if you want to see who-is-who.



Thanks for that. The shift to FTR surprises me a little but the fact you guys are equal numbers with TR does not. For the claimed oldest sport in NZ to be slowly drying up is a little sad to hear. Statistically it will not recover. The future of the NRA is in FTR or F-Class. I assume the NRA has adequately recognized this? I enjoyed my time with the Petone Club very much and wish the club well.

As for target shooting in Taranaki the only stuff I have sniffed out is the south Taranaki deer stalkers. I'm not really interested in competition any more but may look into what they are doing at some stage. It sounds a little informal and that might be a bit of fun. I still have a full blown F-Class rifle but now chambered in 7mm WSM which is now in my A5 and I use it hunting. Frankly far better bang for buck. Its absolutely lethal.

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## ebf

> Thanks for that. The shift to FTR surprises me a little but the fact you guys are equal numbers with TR does not. For the claimed oldest sport in NZ to be slowly drying up is a little sad to hear. Statistically it will not recover. The future of the NRA is in FTR or F-Class. I assume the NRA has adequately recognized this?


hahahahaha, sorry.

mate, you have no idea how difficult it is to get f-class to make inroads into the "tr" mentality. the entire NRA council is still completely TR focussed, most of the clubs are TR heavy when it comes to committee members. there are lots of elderly TR shooters still involved in managing clubs, even though they are not actively shooting. at a national level, teams and development is still very heavily focused on palma and tr...

we have only just started getting some movement at the WRA level to get f-class recognition for stuff like postal shoots, champion of champion etc. still massive discrepancies when it comes to queens badges handed out at nationals. some of the regional comps have a "final" for top 5 TR shooters, nothing for F, the list goes on (and on and on)

I built a f-class leaderboard for the NRA village after having to go begging for funds from other shooters, the NRA powers did not even want to send out an email.

bit of a touchy subject....  :Pissed Off: 

on a positive side we had an aus F team here for nationals this year, that has ramped up the competition level by several notches.

FTR is going through a bit of a transformation at the moment. We went to 1/2 moa super-V scoring this year. Moving away from a one-design type class (using 155 palma projectiles), different styles of bipods are maturing etc. But it is a much easier (equipment wise) and cheaper option for entry into F-class. Berger 185 projectiles are pretty common at the top level, and some of the overseas guys are going really heavy with 215s and 230s, but that requires a LOT more precise gun control. FTR is also a very good way to increase your wind skills, especially if you want to score well using 155s.

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## Hades

> @Hades where are you shooting? Cheltenham or Paki Paki?


 @zimmer Chelty

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## jakesae101

Not that i need another disipline of shooting ebf but how much is someone looking at to get set up? I have what im fairly sure was built as a target rifle many many years ago in a long range wildcat that im keen to stretch the legs out on

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## ebf

depends on the depth of your pockets  :Grin: 

probably looking at $2k cheapest option to $10K easy for high-end.

single shot, rigid action : cheap - Omark, expensive - Barnard etc
decent barrel : $ 600-1000
scope : anything from $ 1000 to $ 5000
bipod : davies from aus is good, around $ 300, sinclair is another option, SEB joy-pod is the bees knees, but $ 600+
rear bag : $ 100 - 200

lots of ways to skin a cat, bring your rifle and have a go in sept when the season starts, then take it from there  :Grin: 

then you need to factor in reloading equipment, and components for around 1500 rounds for a full season...

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## Bugger That

> hahahahaha, sorry.
> 
> mate, you have no idea how difficult it is to get f-class to make inroads into the "tr" mentality. the entire NRA council is still completely TR focussed, most of the clubs are TR heavy when it comes to committee members. there are lots of elderly TR shooters still involved in managing clubs, even though they are not actively shooting. at a national level, teams and development is still very heavily focused on palma and tr...
> 
> we have only just started getting some movement at the WRA level to get f-class recognition for stuff like postal shoots, champion of champion etc. still massive discrepancies when it comes to queens badges handed out at nationals. some of the regional comps have a "final" for top 5 TR shooters, nothing for F, the list goes on (and on and on)
> 
> I built a f-class leaderboard for the NRA village after having to go begging for funds from other shooters, the NRA powers did not even want to send out an email.
> 
> bit of a touchy subject.... 
> ...


Actually I have a very good idea I was the F-Class delegate to the NRA for a few years. I shelled out several hundred dollars to sponsor the Masefield trophy (I think?, cant remember which Steve Morris sponsored one and I the other) I spent many long hours sitting in the cold NRA executive meetings for my 2 min segment only to have it brushed under the carpet. All in all I became disillusioned with the whole thing and called it quits after spending 3 months working with a new .284 then switched back to 6.5 and chewed the throat in 200 rounds with hot RL17 loads. By the end of the Masefield my throat was toast. I pulled out of the Ballenger and went to the south Island hunting. While there I figured I had enjoyed a pretty good innings but didn't have the energy to stay at the pointy end anymore and never went back. Resigned as Delegate and vice chair to Petone. 

Truth be known I should have never sold my first gun to DAF that thing just worked and my new gun never did in the McMillian stock, it was just to light.

Shooting the 155 by comparison to the 140 VLD was significant. The 155 was very much like sending my 6 year old to the fridge to get another beer. It seems without purpose and without direction but given time and patience it would complete the journey but the beer was never placed where you expected it to be. 140 VLD @ 3160fps by comparison was a slippery bastard and very predictable. But then given it inherited and additional few grains of weight from the throat of my barrel I guess that was inevitable.

You guys enjoy the sport while it lasts. If the NRA do not seize the opportunity to get behind F-Class shooting and foster the numbers in the coming years the numbers will lose its critical mass and the range will go. As the likes of these forums show there is very little interest in Target shooting in general and until it is understood why guys don't want to compete in shooting events it is near impossible to remove the barriers. F-TR is the NRA best chance to revitalize its self. Personally I would have been keen to restrict F-TR to 155's but I accept there was a good argument to open it up as well. 

Good to see Graeme Cook having some luck in the sport.

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## zimmer

@Bugger That I remember your reign and dominance and then sudden departure. Thanks for explaining the background.
 @ebf The NRA attitudes to F Class starts right at the top of the organisation unfortunately. Rather than see F Class shooters as the potential to boost the organisation........

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## ebf

Yup, and the funny/ sad thing is that whenever it is raised, they turn around and say "well, you need to sort yourselves out, f class is like herding cats"...

The fundamental problem is not having any councillors or exec members that are f-class shooters. Having a non voting delegate is a waste, as had been demonstrated quite clearly.

Unfortunately I think the reality is that NRA style target shooting in NZ is in its death throes. The numbers simply have gone beyond where it is sustainable. Younger guys today want to do service rifle or IPSC pistol, fullbore has no "cool" factor. There is a huge pool of potential shooters amongst the deerstalkers, but because of NRA attitudes, those guys are much more likely to find a home in a prescision rifle series or something like what Gillie is running.

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## gimp

Practical field shooting is far more interesting to me than F-class, I was going to shoot the Gunslinger in February before it was cancelled, then of course it was re-scheduled during a work trip. Will make it up for one of Gillie's shoots one day as soon as I can hopefully. I'd shoot F-class just for the hell of it with my hunting rifle (fuck the game guns) if it was remotely accessible on the West Coast but it isn't, and it also wasn't in Dunedin

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## Bugger That

> Yup, and the funny/ sad thing is that whenever it is raised, they turn around and say "well, you need to sort yourselves out, f class is like herding cats"...


Its actually much like this forum environment. :Grin:  Whenever I went to the shooters for their opinion to take back to the NRA we would all end up talking in circles? It was hellishly frustrating. I remember well at the end of the F-Class Nationals drawing equal with ??? (I was going to say Kevin but that was a Ballenger) There was no official ruling as to how to work out the winner. As the delegate at the time I wanted to put in place an agreement as how we would sort it out. All I got was 20 odd guys looking at their feet. In the end Graeme made the call on count back. Anyway a few weeks later I get rumors of bitching. As far as I was concerned they had there opportunity and missed it. Back then a number of shooters wanted their own target and I was for that as well. I wanted to avoid any more draws. But there was no way in hell we were going to get that. The move to the targets you have now I assume is for the better? 

Gimp as I see it the real advantage of a practical match is that there is no real fixed infrastructure. NRA shooting will most likely disappear with time. If regions cannot acquire the land or the infrastructure to shoot they fail as has happened here in Taranaki. As the regions dry up this has a flow on effect in Trentham. I see the club fees are $265.00?? Or some rather large number like that. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out what is happening there. That fee will drive even more away and so on.

Your practical matches are a better model and more sustainable. The only down side I see is that I assume a great deal of the setup cost and energy to keep it going most likely sits with just 1 or maybe a very small number of guys. With that in mind the matches are dependent on their interest in keeping it going. Anybody who shoots at these matches would be wise to pass on their appreciation to those individuals and where possible make every effort to help.

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## ebf

> The move to the targets you have now I assume is for the better?


yup, very good move imho, we (informally) shot 1/2 moa super-V at last year's hamilton F event, and it showed a massive difference between those that had some overseas competition experience and the rest. most guys have adapted pretty quickly, and it is funny watching the TR guys trying harder to up their X count as well  :Grin:  at least now we are shooting at the same size targets as the rest of the world, so better for top-level, but harder for the weekend warrior, so bit of a double-edged sword.

we have also started making some F inroads into 300m. FTR was allowed last year, and at the start of May this year we had the first 2 FO guys competing. competitor numbers were pretty much evenly split between F (FO & FTR), ISSF and Open.




> I see the club fees are $265.00?? Or some rather large number like that. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out what is happening there. That fee will drive even more away and so on.


And rising, already quite a bit more than IPSC for example once you add match fees etc...

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## steven

As EBF says the entire NRA is old (and some I think are a bit senile) and TR only fanatics. In fact some even said that they didnt want ppl who thought they were snipers anywhere near "their range"  (hence why I wonder about the sanity of some of them). However I spent 2 years pointing out that FTR ppl was on the increase, and that we needed members or we are poked, I think I got a wee bit of traction on one or two ppl.  As an example I think NRA has about 250 members nationwide, you cant run a functional organisation on that number.  

If you want a competitive FTR its a specialist gun, so $1700 for a single shot Barnard P action, about $1k for a Kreiger 30inch SS match barrel, about $1k for a good enough stock and bipod and $1500 for a good enough scope so you are up around $5k.      F-open, similar setup except instead of a barrel per 4 years 1 or more per year...ie 4000 rounds v 750.  

I tend to agree that statistically the NRA is dead, especially as I think they dont seem to want recover, just keep the game going until they are all too old.  Hence why I have been taking an interest in 223 and the WSRA.  There is supposed to be a 600yd rnage coming soon, if its a goer I might just drop Trentham its going to get ugly so I want to be well away if so.

What I do is shoot 303brit for short ranges (<=600yds) and I will go back to FTR for >=800 next season, my eyesight is now just not up to TR.

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## steven

$265 last year, I dont know what its going to be this year, we'll find out in July.  On top of that though in effect its $50 for each weekend, many ppl are saying no to that.

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## Bugger That

> As EBF says the entire NRA is old (and some I think are a bit senile) and TR only fanatics. In fact some even said that they didnt want ppl who thought they were snipers anywhere near "their range"  (hence why I wonder about the sanity of some of them). However I spent 2 years pointing out that FTR ppl was on the increase, and that we needed members or we are poked, I think I got a wee bit of traction on one or two ppl.  As an example I think NRA has about 250 members nationwide, you cant run a functional organisation on that number.  
> 
> If you want a competitive FTR its a specialist gun, so $1700 for a single shot Barnard P action, about $1k for a Kreiger 30inch SS match barrel, about $1k for a good enough stock and bipod and $1500 for a good enough scope so you are up around $5k.      F-open, similar setup except instead of a barrel per 4 years 1 or more per year...ie 4000 rounds v 750.  
> 
> I tend to agree that statistically the NRA is dead, especially as I think they dont seem to want recover, just keep the game going until they are all too old.  Hence why I have been taking an interest in 223 and the WSRA.  There is supposed to be a 600yd rnage coming soon, if its a goer I might just drop Trentham its going to get ugly so I want to be well away if so.
> 
> What I do is shoot 303brit for short ranges (<=600yds) and I will go back to FTR for >=800 next season, my eyesight is now just not up to TR.


In the beginning of FTR I was disappointed that they (F-class members) Allowed the wording of the founding document effectively allow a full blown F-Class rifle chambered in 308. From its concept it was only intended for and TR rifle fitted with a scope and front rest. I was a bit pissed off about it so decided to chamber my F-Class rifle in 308 and shoot F-TR with the intention of demonstrating how such a setup could dominate the class. In reality I never got my head around the almost double windage factor and failed miserably. :Grin:   To this day 308's do my head in.

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## Cyclops

> Not that i need another disipline of shooting ebf but how much is someone looking at to get set up? I have what im fairly sure was built as a target rifle many many years ago in a long range wildcat that im keen to stretch the legs out on


Set up cost can vary.
I bought a Savage Model 12 .223 1:7 twist for my son to begin with in FTR, off the shelf with 2nd hand scope and bipod + reloading gear about $3200 to begin to compete. A great learning rifle for him (and now me) to learn with.

We're  now assembling another rifle around a Barnard action in 308.

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## ebf

Bugger That, you seem to use the term "F Class" to refer to FO. That might have been the case in the past, as some in the NRA still seem to do this. With the move to 6.1 scoring, we have hopefully broken the ubmilical to TR and positioned more as a "real" F class sub-division. Most of the resistance to FTR going 6.10 came from TR shooters  :Grin: 

Those of us shooting currently see F-Class as having two equal divisions, FTR and FO.

The 308s we are shooting are a world apart from 1:14 144grainers. The Lapua Scenar 155 and HBC Dyer Mk2 are both pretty good, and for that extra 5-10%, the Berger 185 Hybrid or Juggernaut is the current flavour of the month.

In FO most top guys seem to be using 7 WSM, either 7mm or 300WSM necked down, driving 180 Bergers.

It would have been good to keep FTR at 155, to make it a more even playing field (and limit costs), but that horse has bolted, and like I said, the yanks are going even heavier than 185... Been hearing things about heavier pills in extra-extra long barrels...

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## Bugger That

> Bugger That, you seem to use the term "F Class" to refer to FO. That might have been the case in the past, as some in the NRA still seem to do this. With the move to 6.1 scoring, we have hopefully broken the ubmilical to TR and positioned more as a "real" F class sub-division. Most of the resistance to FTR going 6.10 came from TR shooters 
> 
> Those of us shooting currently see F-Class as having two equal divisions, FTR and FO.
> 
> The 308s we are shooting are a world apart from 1:14 144grainers. The Lapua Scenar 155 and HBC Dyer Mk2 are both pretty good, and for that extra 5-10%, the Berger 185 Hybrid or Juggernaut is the current flavour of the month.
> 
> In FO most top guys seem to be using 7 WSM, either 7mm or 300WSM necked down, driving 180 Bergers.
> 
> It would have been good to keep FTR at 155, to make it a more even playing field (and limit costs), but that horse has bolted, and like I said, the yanks are going even heavier than 185... Been hearing things about heavier pills in extra-extra long barrels...


I know its near impossible but imagine for a second if you could operate independently of the NRA. If I was still involved I would push the NRA for support to shoot independently of TR at least one competition per year at Trent ham. This would give you a bit of a foot holding to act on in the future.

That why I chambered in 7mm WSM. 5 years ago I had my rifle setup in both my FO stock and the A5 so I could use it for both FO and hunting. I have 2 new Krieger barrels for it and a True flight. The WSM is a natural shooter with extremely low ES and consistent good groups I can see why guys have adopted it.

With how things have panned out I think F-TR has actually gone in the right direction. I also think it requires more skill to be successful. FO is a bit of a drag race but it comes with the challenge of keeping it going all day when shooting 4 matches. Without having done anything like that with my WSM I expect that would be a challenge although I sure wouldnt shoot the powder I currently am for FO.
Interesting developments Thanks.

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## zimmer

@ebf It is even worse in my club where some of the older members still call our class of shooting "Free Rifle". No amount of correcting by me will change them including trying to explain that Free Rifle is a 3 pos event nothing at all like F Class. grrr that is what we are up against. A few ago when I was more active and took out our clubs FO champs I was subsequently presented with a cup at our annual presentation. The cup had a label with it - Free Rifle.
Re the NRA fees - as membership declines the fixed costs to run the organisation will be shared across fewer members so will continue to escalate in value.

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## steven

I wish they had kept the 155gr, they can still do by regualting that but usually the ones with the most money make the loudest noises, and have I think ruined every sport Ive had a go at for 40 odd years.

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## zimmer

.

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## Bugger That

> I wish they had kept the 155gr, they can still do by regualting that but usually the ones with the most money make the loudest noises, and have I think ruined every sport Ive had a go at for 40 odd years.


I was using Bergers to cull goats but we are getting through a huge number of them. I have just gone back to Hornady. I'd hate to be shooting Bergers at targets at $1.00+ per pill that would make me cringe.

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## ebf

@steven, if NZ decides to go 155, it will be a move backwards. 185s give you a good 10% margin in heavy wind, and at international level it would be crazy to use something that is not optimal. To be effective, an entire team has to shoot the same weight projectile, otherwise you expect the wind coaches to perform miracles..

The only way it will be feasible is if ICFRA does it worldwide, and I can't see that happening. But it is a numbers thing, the Yanks shoot in high-value winds and want the heavier projectiles, and they have the numbers to support change. The total number of FO and FTR shooters turning up for NZ Nationals is probably a small weekend club in the states... Will be interesting to see how it pans out at the next worlds in Canada. The UK team has already chosen 155gr according to their website...

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## steven

@zimmer, yep and hence why I am seriously considering going in a different direction.  On top of that there is a drive for NRA NZ to host the Palma in 2019, just how that is paid for is a "mystery".  Since the NRA is supported by clubs which in turn means membership fees, I am rather worried that some big bills might finish "us" off.

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## steven

> I was using Bergers to cull goats but we are getting through a huge number of them. I have just gone back to Hornady. I'd hate to be shooting Bergers at targets at $1.00+ per pill that would make me cringe.


Hence why with 223 service rifle 13.5cents is so appealing.

--edit-- 
if we get some serious Ar15 / 223 long range FTR type shooting in Wellington its bye bye 308w for me I think...

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## scoped

Would be really keen to get into f open shooting, sadly I haven't got the 5000$ to set up a rig, and all the reloading gear and then travel to shoots during the summer months. In terms of shooting my interests lie mainly aside from hunting are in advanced reloading ,wind reading and shooting/positional techniques like the field shoots I've been to. I'd be keen to do the odd 3 and 6 at trentham for a bit of wind reading practise but in some ways I'd rather spend my hard earned dollars and get out hunting.  Never really been fussed shooting target rifle class, tried small bore and shooting with a sling and jacket wasn't me, I'm not keen on the 308 either really in my opinion it's just pissing into the wind if it wasn't a nato round it wouldn't be near as popular.

From the sidelines as a few others might of said yes there may be a demise of target shooting in nz however I see little advertising or promotion to get into the sport probably to do with the country's interior politics in the nra along with a local joker here who is mad set on getting rid of trentham as a shooting facility. Obviously I'm not just going to show up to a club shoot and walk up to some random and ask if I can have a go sort of thing if clubs want shooters then maybe it's time they get off their arse and show what the great sport it is . for example the national champs at trentham this year I didn't see that many spectators and I was thinking to myself how many of these crack shot shooters have actually tipped over a deer.

But hey just my opinion as everyone does, you gotta accept people move on and maybe the sport is not meant to be. Most young guys or people getting into hunting would be more likely to get into long range or God forbid 3 gun, pistol and the like rather than shooting paper

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## MattyP

As an outsider looking in it's seems to be that accessibility is the problem.

When I first bought my 308 I was initially keen to shoot targets out to longer distances. However everything I hear puts me off with all the rules and requirements and the endless politics that I hear being complained about whenever someone talks about it. I wouldn't even know how to start out to be honest.

Compared to shotgunning where you can just turn up at a club night and have a go and get someone helping and coaching you.

Last time I was at the range I was giving the gun a good clean before leaving and two guys were just shaking their heads and talking about the politics and how they were sick of it. Then one of them mentioned may as well just give it away and do Tuesday nights and Sundays with the shotgun. "No bullshit, everyone has a laugh, nobody gives a fuck about what gun you're shooting, etc."

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## gimp

Bruce Rifle Club in Dunedin is extremely accessible and good these days. They just don't shoot much long range.

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## Bugger That

> Would be really keen to get into f open shooting, sadly I haven't got the 5000$ to set up a rig, and all the reloading gear and then travel to shoots during the summer months. In terms of shooting my interests lie mainly aside from hunting are in advanced reloading ,wind reading and shooting/positional techniques like the field shoots I've been to. I'd be keen to do the odd 3 and 6 at trentham for a bit of wind reading practise but in some ways I'd rather spend my hard earned dollars and get out hunting.  Never really been fussed shooting target rifle class, tried small bore and shooting with a sling and jacket wasn't me, I'm not keen on the 308 either really in my opinion it's just pissing into the wind if it wasn't a nato round it wouldn't be near as popular.
> 
> From the sidelines as a few others might of said yes there may be a demise of target shooting in nz however I see little advertising or promotion to get into the sport probably to do with the country's interior politics in the nra along with a local joker here who is mad set on getting rid of trentham as a shooting facility. Obviously I'm not just going to show up to a club shoot and walk up to some random and ask if I can have a go sort of thing if clubs want shooters then maybe it's time they get off their arse and show what the great sport it is . for example the national champs at trentham this year I didn't see that many spectators and I was thinking to myself how many of these crack shot shooters have actually tipped over a deer.
> 
> But hey just my opinion as everyone does, you gotta accept people move on and maybe the sport is not meant to be. Most young guys or people getting into hunting would be more likely to get into long range or God forbid 3 gun, pistol and the like rather than shooting paper


Two good examples of the difficulties facing the NRA. I guarantee you that if you rock up to Trentham with your hunting gun and 24 rounds of ammo (actually you may need more to get onto the target if longrange) the guys will welcome you onto the range, help you with getting onto the target and you will leave with a marked score. Because thats exactly how I got involved I took my 308 along with its Tasco scope and approached the first person I saw they directed me to the Petone president he was helpful and arranged some one to help me and the range officer gave me a bit of a briefing. No prior contact with any of them at all. I shot 800y I didnt care about my score I was amazed I hit the very big black bit in the middle. The only requirement for a better rig is that hunting guns despite all the shit you read here are not competitive. We can all fluke a .3moa 3 shot group occasionally. That said a heavy barrel varmint gun may do alright but the guys currently shooting would put anyone right on the thought.

If you want to gain experience with your hunting gun you can shoot it every weekend at Trentham and no one will care about your score but you. By all means join a club and have ago. You will learn heaps and meet some good people.


As for the deer remark I guess shooting animals is a relevant to them as shooting targets to most of the guys here. Each to there own.

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## gimp

> As for the deer remark I guess shooting animals is a relevant to them as shooting targets to most of the guys here. Each to there own.


Agreeing on this, the firearm culture in Nz is too hunting-centric, even down to the licensing process - questions about "what would you do if you were hunting on private land?" etc. There are other legitimate uses of firearms than hunting.

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## ebf

@scoped, nothing stopping you from bringing your hunting rifle and having a go. You can also use one of the club rifles and see if that makes a difference. You might learn a thing or three...

very different skillsets between f-class and gong shooting/hunting. The one is about absolute consistency and shooting 10/15/20 shot groups to high degree of accuracy, trying to make wind the only variable. The other is massively variable in terms of position, terrain, angle etc. some of the skills are transferable, but I think that without trying both, most guys completely underestimate the huge differences.

some f-class guys hunt, some don't. Some are into benchrest, some aren't. Like most sports these days, once you get to the sharp end, it is a very specific and specialised thing.

----------


## Savage1

Sounds like Scoped enjoys problems rather than soloutions, like the others have said, the NRA clubs are very welcoming to newcomers regardless of their gear.

As for the deer comment, I wonder how many of the crack hunters have hunted something that isn't dumb and shoots back. They're both different and can't be compared, having tipped over a deer doesn't make you a better shot/man.

----------


## Hades

> Obviously I'm not just going to show up to a club shoot and walk up to some random and ask if I can have a go sort of thing.


Why the hell not?  There isn't a golden ticket or lucrative membership hazing. 

I had the Secretary's rear bag and shooting mat and the President laying next to me reading the wind at Cheltenham during my first shoot.  I brought along my $600 Marlin and factory Corelokt rounds, shooting off a Chinese bi-pod and not one shit was given.  Even surprised myself with a couple of V's.  Spent the rest of the afternoon chatting to F, F/tr and FO shooters, all willing to share knowledge.

----------


## Cyclops

Late in 2013 my (then) 14 year old said he wanted to try target shooting.
We went to a local range where I knew someone. A lot of help was offered to my son to get him started and hooked.

Once I was sure he'd continue advice was ask for and given about the next step and what might a good learner rifle - a heavy barrelled Savage Varmit rifle in 223.

Don't be afraid to approach your nearest club at your nearest range as almost all will offer you great help to get you hitting the target. After that it's up to you.

We went to the Nationals in January 2014 and received even more helpful advice from people we didn't know. Great people, very helpful.


We still get helpful advice - now it's about how to build up a FTR rifle in 308 around a Barnard action.

----------


## ebf

@zimmer  @Bugger That

Can you guys fill in some blanks for me regarding F-class history in NZ.

I read an article in GB Target Shooter magazine recently that gave the following info:

2001 : 1st F-class Worlds, Canada
2004 : US F-class Nationals, Camp Butner, 1st major comp where FTR recognized
2005 : 2nd F-Class Worlds, South Africa
2009 : 3rd F-Class Worlds, Bisley, 1st FTR worlds (4-man teams)
2013 : 4th F-Class Worlds, Raton, FTR moved to full 8-man teams

Where does NZ fit into this ? When did guys start shooting F in NZ, when was the first nationals that included F-class ?

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## steven

@scoped I went to take my 14year old to shoot full bore to see if he liked it, not much but I enjoyed it heaps.  Still dont know what took my so long to get back into shooting, apathy? too busy? dunno but I regret that now.

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## PerazziSC3

Where can i shoot this in Christchurch? Can i turn up to a club day/practice shoot with my stock standard 300wsm with a capable scope to get to 1000m, harris bipod and rear bag and shoot to see if i like it?

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## ebf

Perazzi, pretty much yes. Most of the clubs take a break over winter, and the serious season starts around Sept.

Welcome to the NRA NZ | National Rifle Association of New Zealand has all the club contact details, @Cyclops and his son shoot in CHC, have a chat to him

FTR is 308 or 223 only, so 300wsm will put you in F-Open.

We generally shoot yards not meters, from 300yds to 1000yds.

The only issue I can think of is if you have a loundner/brake on the rifle. It causes problems for other folk on the line, so not allowed, but check with the local club to be sure. Suppressors are fine.

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## PerazziSC3

Na don't have a break or suppressor. Ok will look into it thanks

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## steven

> Where can i shoot this in Christchurch? Can i turn up to a club day/practice shoot with my stock standard 300wsm with a capable scope to get to 1000m, harris bipod and rear bag and shoot to see if i like it?


Its probable that the club wont let you shoot 1000yds straight off due to cone of fire/regs.  So you turn up for a 300yds (or maybe 500yds) to prove you can shoot and then extend the range in 100yds increments.

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## stuart165

@ebf, i started f class in 2008 i think and it had been going a few years already then. i would guess 2004 or even earlier.

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## Cyclops

> Its probable that the club wont let you shoot 1000yds straight off due to cone of fire/regs.  So you turn up for a 300yds (or maybe 500yds) to prove you can shoot and then extend the range in 100yds increments.


Perazzi the fullbore outdoor season is pretty much over. It will resume again from August.
There are three clubs that shoot in the greater Christchurch area, Malvern Rifle Club, Christchurch Rifle Club and Ashburton District Rifle Club.

They accept new shooters with firearms licences. All have club rifles that can be used.
A club member supervised my son while he shot until I got my licence.

Ashburton and Malvern have active FB pages.

----------


## scoped

> Why the hell not?  There isn't a golden ticket or lucrative membership hazing. 
> 
> I had the Secretary's rear bag and shooting mat and the President laying next to me reading the wind at Cheltenham during my first shoot.  I brought along my $600 Marlin and factory Corelokt rounds, shooting off a Chinese bi-pod and not one shit was given.  Even surprised myself with a couple of V's.  Spent the rest of the afternoon chatting to F, F/tr and FO shooters, all willing to share knowledge.



didn't mean it like that, more of a personal thing I guess especially when these are people you don't know and are all dealing with firearms! l.. I don't doubt that clubs are helpful for new shooters and stuff, its just stink that there is little publicity or more of an effort to get people into the sport. if they ran a hunter class????

at the mo I have occasional access to a farm which we can scrape 950 metres on a bit of steel, but if worst comes to worst then I would probably try trentham!

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## Hades

Cheltenham runs a hunters class on occasion and also invites the local DeerStalkers to stretch their legs from time to time.

Remember that the majority of the club members (from my experience) are over 50 and have not heard of or use Facetube or Youbook.  Modern forms of publicity will catch up when modern people make it accessible.  The old school way of finding info is to talk to someone.  That would work spectacularly in this situation.

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## dave-m

> Exactly that reason.. Something along the lines of there were contracted divers in the water at the time, but outside of the red zone.  Who then alerted the police, and so forth..
> 
> Awesome range that one, tricky winds off the coast too!


gutted bro!! one morning we went to check if there were any boats in the red zone, there  was one further out which was a bit nervy but ok. thought we should head closer to the cliff and check nobody was in close to shore....... there was a boat right in the red zone, dead straight in line with the targets. a chap had to head home to call up the boaties with on his radio.

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## 6x47

> @ebf, i started f class in 2008 i think and it had been going a few years already then. i would guess 2004 or even earlier.


Quite a bit earlier in fact. The person largely responsible for getting things going was Andre Doyle who was an Army ? sniper instructor at the time. I remember him shooting a suppressed .260 at Trentham. Tracy Short had a good go at one point- threw a few resources at the problem but sure got the results

----------


## ebf

Andre is still around, dropped off some stuff with him this morning  :Grin:  He is also the driving force behind electronic targets...

He is now shooting TR with an outrigger sight system. Part of the Palma team off to the States next month.

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## steven

Andre Doyle is currently the President of Petone Rifle club at Trentham (my club), I think he has 'retired" from the NRA side of things and yes we run 5 electronic targets.

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## zimmer

The late Tony Loughnan (google to see his engineering achievements) was probably one of the main proponents of electronic targets within the NRA. Somewhere I saw a report of his including his opinion that for the ongoing future of the organisation it was essential that electronic targets became widely introduced. From memory he also put forward things like the analysis of the accuracy of electronics systems versus manual marking. The electronic system, in his opinion was the most accurate - something I would agree with considering the some of the dodgy marking I have experienced in the past.  :Omg:

----------


## shooternz

Electronic targets are the way to go, I lost quite a few points shooting full bore with a .223 even the .308's can be hard to find had them slip down the spotter's dowel pin with out leaving a trace, electronic's stop all that.

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## longrange308

> Perazzi the fullbore outdoor season is pretty much over. It will resume again from August.
> There are three clubs that shoot in the greater Christchurch area, Malvern Rifle Club, Christchurch Rifle Club and Ashburton District Rifle Club.
> 
> They accept new shooters with firearms licences. All have club rifles that can be used.
> A club member supervised my son while he shot until I got my licence.
> 
> Ashburton and Malvern have active FB pages.


mite have to give this a crack
although have spent too much on guns lately so maybe i shouldnt :Grin:

----------


## Hades

Cheltenham is having 2x rounds at 600 yards on Saturday.  100 yard sighting available from 12.  $5 for sighting and $8 for the 600y shoot.

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## Cyclops

> mite have to give this a crack
> although have spent too much on guns lately so maybe i shouldnt


Spent too much on guns? Is that an oxymoron? It's like the wife saying she's got enough shoes.

See you on a range in the new season.

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## Kurt

> That said a heavy barrel varmint gun may do alright but the guys currently shooting would put anyone right on the thought.


I started shooting F-TR in Decmeber with a Rem 700 varmint after not shooting at all for about 8 years, once I started reloading and sorted a good load for it I was reasonably competitive, 4th of 14 at Cheltenham at my last shoot

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## ebf

Hey @Kurt, nice to see you on here. You had a good run at Chelty, solid improvement over Wairarapa.

Epic brain failure on my part that day, cruising along nicely at 300 & 500, then shot on the wrong target twice during my 600 string, doh !

Hope to see you down at Seddon next season, so you can come experience some of the famous "pain"  :Grin:

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## Kurt

Cheers, I actually did a bit better than that on the 2nd day   :Grin:  

Wairarapa was before I started reloading.

----------


## WallyR

Just lobbed on to this thread. Interesting to see that 'ageism' has reared it's head again. I can understand resistance to change, but the only 'constant' in life or any activity is - CHANGE. Having been a 'very amateur hunter' in my youth (66 and counting at present), age has caught up with joints and strength, so target shooting has become 'an aim'. Went to Cheltenham (from Carterton), on Saturday 2 x 500 yard shoots. Should have phoned first, as weather was really CRAP - only just made it back through the Manawatu Gorge before it was closed. Was going to 'pick brains, ask questions, be a nuisance', but rain was so heavy, left without going in. Pity - would have been very instructive. This thread has been helpful, and I concur that every shooting organisation and it's members, have been EXTREMELY welcoming - in Aistralia (28 years) and NZ. Mostly claybird shooting - but the help was always given freely, and helped improve technique and results. F Open is my choice (Ballinger Belt is too stressful - not a 'true competitor' LOL), have received a lot of help from Frank at Masterton. Pity that the Brancepeth range is weather dependent - never mind, shit happens. Looking forward to completing the licensing process and getting started.

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## ebf

@WallyR, some very, very good shooters over at Brancepeth, you could do a lot worse  :Thumbsup: 

Nice range as well, we shoot superlongs there once a year. Hopefully see you amongst the competitors next season.

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## WallyR

@ebf - I shoot for the fun of shooting LOL. Any idea of what I should be looking at - calibre, action, barrel length, stock/chassis, glass. Being retired, is a 'bummer', as anything I might want (260 Rem seems to be popular), has to pass the 'keeper of the purse strings' - oh, and the kind gentlemen of the NZ Police at Masterton (still in the process of getting my License). I've seen a couple of interesting opportunities on TradeMe, that would get me well on the way to LR shooting, but price is a little 'steep' for the missus to swallow - got to set up the reloading system as well (more.....discussion LOL). Probably the wrong thread to ask these questions on, but a guy's got to start somewhere eh.

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## PerazziSC3

> @ebf - I shoot for the fun of shooting LOL. Any idea of what I should be looking at - calibre, action, barrel length, stock/chassis, glass. Being retired, is a 'bummer', as anything I might want (260 Rem seems to be popular), has to pass the 'keeper of the purse strings' - oh, and the kind gentlemen of the NZ Police at Masterton (still in the process of getting my License). I've seen a couple of interesting opportunities on TradeMe, that would get me well on the way to LR shooting, but price is a little 'steep' for the missus to swallow - got to set up the reloading system as well (more.....discussion LOL). Probably the wrong thread to ask these questions on, but a guy's got to start somewhere eh.


I'm looking at similar to you and probably looking at the same stuff on trademe haha. 260 is leading the pack for my first choice and first barrel.

That 260 Barnard on trademe would be nice but barrel may be a bit past its best which makes the package not very well priced if a rebarrel is required shortly....

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## steven

> I started shooting F-TR in Decmeber with a Rem 700 varmint after not shooting at all for about 8 years, once I started reloading and sorted a good load for it I was reasonably competitive, 4th of 14 at Cheltenham at my last shoot


The interesting thing is, both Matt and Micheal have expensive top end FTR rifles. Ewan probably had the Petone club FTR also top end and @ebf correct me if Im wrong, is rocking along with an Omark gun he bought for $400 and worked on himself (plus a new barrel?),  So $400 v $5000+ and showing similar scores.

 :Thumbsup: 

I am so looking forward to September.

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## steven

"I shoot for the fun of shooting LOL." I do the same, 303 <=600yds, >FTR.   I'd suggest staying with 308w and FTR rather than F-open.   Finally got a Pattern 14 PH5b rear target sight!

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## ebf

Bit more to it than that @steven...

The only thing that is still the same on the Omark is the action. In real money terms it has had a Nielsen adapter added, 2nd hand TF match barrel put on, been throated specifically for 185 Bergers. 2nd hand target stock with improved butt pad, and scope is close to $1k. Been lucky to have had pieces donated by club mates and work done etc. I've also just bought a new Lilja barrel for next season, and spent a fair amount on setting up a matching small bore FTR rifle to be able to practise at shorter ranges. 

Big thing is that I see FTR shooting as a long term learning curve. *Consistency* wins when it comes to multi day matches, and it takes a couple of seasons to get up to speed with wind calling, and a lot of travel to learn the different ranges around the country. It is relatively easy to shoot well for a single string, especially when there is no real competition pressure. It is a different thing to do it at multiple ranges, over multiple days, in varying conditions, and with serious competition. I am starting to reap the rewards now, but it has been an 18 month steep learning curve, with lots of time put into it. And I still have a lot to learn...  :Grin:

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## WallyR

@PerraziSC3 - yep mate, although 'Septic' blogs credit 260 with >4000 round life. The AICS stock could be worth a little 'pain' barrel wise, while on a learning curve. Plus glass to suit - getting out of reach - even if it stretches another 1K rounds in the barrel. Looking at starting on something that has a reasonable resale value, if this becomes my 'OCD' choice LOL, then re-investing in more match specific gear, as I improve. When I started DTL in NSW 'back in the day', was using a cheap Boito U/O off the 10 yard mark. Great help at Narrabeen Gun Club, really helpful, and happy to loan you better guns to get the hang of things. - NSW Gun Club, more intense and less help, and guns starting $20K>. Went back to Narrabeen. Whangarei Pistol Club were good guys too - back then - even had a trialist (selected in NZ's shooting team as reserve), but he was very intense. Other guys were great! Auckland Gun Club were friendly - once they realised that you were 'only' a high D grade/low C grade shooter and nothing to worry about LOL. Expect some rifle clubs will be similar - that's life, just get on with it LOL. Anybody out there that might have suitable USEFUL gear, with a bit of 'life' left in it (to learn the 'ropes'), PM me with details PLEASE. Ta.

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## ebf

@WallyR, startup cost is just one side of it.

FTR is cheaper than FO, it is possible to get some decent 2nd hand 308 target rifles and put a fairly basic scope on it to start. Learn to read wind, and learn to reload EXTREMELY consistent ammunition, and you could have fun in FTR for several years.

FO you are looking at some pretty specific and pricey rests/bags, plus the barrel life is shorter than 308. The reality is that FO guys try to maximize the benefits of shooting a wind-beating calibre, so a lot of them (not all) run things pretty hot. There are ways around this, several guys are moving to more moderate chamberings like 6.5x47, 260 etc.

For FO advice, PM DAF or Grasshopper on here. If you want to talk FTR, I am happy to answer questions as best as I can.

The big costs are:

1) ammo - a full season is around 1500-2000 rounds for me... when you start using Berger projectiles etc it hurts even more  :Grin: 
2) comp entry fees and travel, nationals cost around $ 500 entry fees and 4-500 rounds on top of that, and I shoot most of the North Island regionals...
3) barrel - from a conservative point of view you should look at a new barrel ($1K) every 3000/4000 rounds for 308, and that can go down to less than a 1000 rounds for some FO rifles...

For anyone interested in F-class, my advice is to go to the local club, and speak to people, shoot with the club rifles and try different things before even thinking of buying anything. Realise that the costs involved are more than just a rifle.

----------


## Kurt

> The interesting thing is, both Matt and Micheal have expensive top end FTR rifles. Ewan probably had the Petone club FTR also top end and @ebf correct me if Im wrong, is rocking along with an Omark gun he bought for $400 and worked on himself (plus a new barrel?),  So $400 v $5000+ and showing similar scores.
> 
> 
> 
> I am so looking forward to September.



Those top 3 had a pretty good lead over the rest of us though!

Rem 700 Varmint dropped in a B&C stock on a Harris bipod and $600 scope here. I only shoot those 155gn Dyer's, because they're (I'm) cheap    :Grin:

----------


## 6x47

Absolutely nothing wrong with the HBCs Kurt. 
Can't blame the projectile if you miss  :Psmiley:

----------


## Kurt

> Absolutely nothing wrong with the HBCs Kurt. 
> Can't blame the projectile if you miss


When do I miss??   :Psmiley:

----------


## WallyR

Thanks @ebf - will definitely follow your suggestion re: 'Try before you buy'. Having ears that are on their way out (too much noise - of every kind), I definitely need sound moderators on my rifle and on rifles nearby. $11500 hearing aids aren't all that flash for controlling excess noise  :Grin: . Budget will definitely restrict shooting to 'social activity' or being a 'detail filler' on the day. From the rules NZNRA put out for F-TR and FO, I've interpreted that moderators are acceptable. In my younger days (303, 7.62 NATO), military stocks made me a bit 'recoil shy'. Having popped some 'caps' on a 50 BMG, and a 500 S&W Magnum, in the States, I think I'm over this now  :Pacman: . While competition does improve your performance, LR shooting is a retirement hobby for me. So will probably have something along the lines of your Omark - without the 'upgrades' that you've put into yours. Time will tell if I have the ability - desire isn't a problem.  :Grin: .

----------


## gimp

'please' stop putting 'quotation marks' around every 'second' word

----------


## 6x47

They're actually apostrophes..   :Wink:

----------


## Cyclops

@WallyR electronic ear protectors could be worth investing in. They block the loud noises but allow you to hear speech - helpful when on the firing line.

----------


## ebf

yup, supressors/moderators are fine. Not very common though, because with string fire, they get very hot and cause issues with mirage in your scope.

For recoil reduction, a good buttpad like a limbsaver will do wonders, and there are several f-class shooters who wear heavy shooting jackets, not just for recoil, but also to increase consistency in terms of fit into the shoulder.

----------


## steven

Hardest thing to learn is the wind IMHO.   apart from that Matt's gun for instance easily does 1/4MOA, what is your 1/2? 3/4MOA?  That makes wind judgement even more critical for you.  I am certianly impressed with @ebf's setup for the $s spent.

----------


## steven

I am switching to HBCs as they are good for 100fps+ at the same 45gr 2208 and at 1000yds that means still supersonic unlike the Nosslers and they are the same price more or less. HBC is supposed to be doing a 303brit this month, but they have gone silent on that    :Sad:

----------


## steven

> Thanks @ebf - will definitely follow your suggestion re: 'Try before you buy'. Having ears that are on their way out (too much noise - of every kind), I definitely need sound moderators on my rifle and on rifles nearby. $11500 hearing aids aren't all that flash for controlling excess noise . Budget will definitely restrict shooting to 'social activity' or being a 'detail filler' on the day. From the rules NZNRA put out for F-TR and FO, I've interpreted that moderators are acceptable. In my younger days (303, 7.62 NATO), military stocks made me a bit 'recoil shy'. Having popped some 'caps' on a 50 BMG, and a 500 S&W Magnum, in the States, I think I'm over this now . While competition does improve your performance, LR shooting is a retirement hobby for me. So will probably have something along the lines of your Omark - without the 'upgrades' that you've put into yours. Time will tell if I have the ability - desire isn't a problem. .


Keep an eye on TM for guns, recently 2 came up that went for $500 (name starts with G cant recall the spelling) and they are good guns.

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## Hades

Cheltenham- 2x300 yard shoots + quick clean up.  Bring your gummies and a shovel if you choose.  Sighting from 12 pm.

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## WallyR

@Hades - would love to come along, however family commitments need to be attended to.  :Sick:  @ebf - only putting in 'quotation/apostrophe' marks to show thoughts/wish list rather than concrete desires  :Thumbsup: 
Handy thread for 'brain picking', but arguments about F-TR v FO, very confusing. Seems to me, F-TR thinking rules - one should still be able to shoot FO, without breaking the bank  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk: . Still - getting great ideas from the posters.

----------


## gimp

> They're actually apostrophes..



Used in such a manner, also known as single quotation marks

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## Cyclops

> Handy thread for 'brain picking', but arguments about F-TR v FO, very confusing. Seems to me, F-TR thinking rules - one should still be able to shoot FO, without breaking the bank . Still - getting great ideas from the posters.


You can shoot either FTR or FO with out breaking the bank if you wish, if you're mainly interested in improving your own results. You will be competing against some who have invested a lot of money (and time) into their shooting. 

It's your choice regarding what investment you want to make and the results you want to get.

----------


## Kurt

> Those top 3 had a pretty good lead over the rest of us though!
> 
> Rem 700 Varmint dropped in a B&C stock on a Harris bipod and $600 scope here. I only shoot those 155gn Dyer's, because they're (I'm) cheap


Selling this rifle now  :Sad:   but in stock configuration + Badger Ordnance 20MOA rail. Will post in the For Sale section soon

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## ebf

What are you buying  ?  :Grin:

----------


## steven

a grenade launcher....

 :36 17 4: 

bound to hit the target that way.

 :Thumbsup:

----------


## Kurt

Stevens onto it   :XD:

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## steven

These are nice guns for $490,

Grunig & Elmiger 308 Target Rifle | Trade Me

This one is a 2 lug bolt and not the later 3 lug.  The later 3 lugs reduce horizontal spread slightly but $490 was a good price for a very well made gun with sights (which are usually $100+).  A new barrel will cost you $800~1000 I'd recommend a Krieger.

----------


## zimmer

> These are nice guns for $490,
> 
> Grunig & Elmiger 308 Target Rifle | Trade Me
> 
> This one is a 2 lug bolt and not the later 3 lug.  The later 3 lugs reduce horizontal spread slightly but $490 was a good price for a very well made gun with sights (which are usually $100+).  A new barrel will cost you $800~1000 I'd recommend a Krieger.


I still have an earlier one to this - it is an absolute dog to bed correctly due to the enormous recoil "lug" king screw combination. Apparently the guys that got them to shoot well machined the lug off. I was going to FTR mine but the bolt handle presents a wee issue - needs bending somewhat.
They were a premium rifle in their time costing 4x an Omark of the day. Virtually an Anschutz stock. The well healed shooters owned them..... So much for the level playing field back then.

----------


## Kurt



----------


## Cyclops

Nice, I've got a 308 FTR rifle being assembled now around a Barnard action and a 32" True Flight 1:10 barrel, Boyds stock. 
That should keep the boy busy for a few seasons.

Will post pictures when it is complete.

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## PerazziSC3

What stock from Boyds are you going for?

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## Kurt

Mines a model S, reusing my B&C stock and Timney

----------


## Cyclops

> What stock from Boyds are you going for?



Boyds description was "CLASSIC UNINLET WALNUT LAMINATE (UNFINISHED)" 
I ordered in anticipation of  having a rifle built, before I knew what I would build.

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Produc...nut-unfinished

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## Kurt

All done!

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## steven

what make is the bipod and how much?

----------


## Kurt

It's a Dolphin, I got it from Nik Chiew

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## ebf

Kurt, what does the dolphin bipod weigh on its own pls...?

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## Kurt

It's about 800g but I think the new ones are 550g

----------


## sparky1000

Just to resurrect this thread, I am interested in FTR shooting and will be heading along to the Malvern shoot on the 17th. Does anyone on here shoot at Malvern?

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## Cyclops

My son & I will be.

You could come to the working bee on the 3rd or the Ashburton Sweepstake on the 10th.

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## sparky1000

Awesome, I will see if I can get to the Ashburton one, at this stage I am busy the weekend of 3 & 4th if the weather is any good (off to do some hut maintenance with local deerstalkers).

Is there anything I would need to bring along? I am guessing ear and eye protection. Is it something I could bring my well behaved 5yr old son along to? He is very keen on shooting.

----------


## Cyclops

> Is there anything I would need to bring along? I am guessing ear and eye protection. Is it something I could bring my well behaved 5yr old son along to? He is very keen on shooting.


Eye and ear protection, shooting mat if you've got one; Hopefully sunblock.  :Have A Nice Day: 
I'll ask about your son, as I'm not the one to give the okay. If he comes he'll need ear protection too.

Of course you'll bring your Firearms Licence to confirm you have a current one.

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## Cyclops

Children are welcome if supervised by parent(s) and must have ear protection.

----------


## sparky1000

That's great thanks so much for your help Cyclops. One last thing are there usually club rifles available to shoot with and begin learning with? I have rifles of my own but I doubt any of them are up to a high enough standard to be worth bringing along at the moment.

I do have a Remington 700 LR in .300 Win Mag with a Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 but I haven't done any load development for it yet and with the suppressor I am not sure what it weighs.

----------


## bully

My full bore experience...
Turn up with what ever rifle as long as I have a zero and drop chart.(within reason, no rimfires)
Get wind practice and verify drops.
At first I used a magnum so took it easy, only usually shot six rounds per match.
Then started using .223 as well, and liked shooting the full amount of rounds.
Only recently iv started looking at what my score is. 
I paid my money and nobody gave a shit if I was ftr or f class there is no stress at all. I'm not really competing so who cares.
I'm just a guy with a rifle enjoying shooting and doing it with like minded people.
Totally recommend it to anyone looking for a place to shoot long range. Don't be put off by classes and rules, except of course safety rules.
I just wish work wouldn't get in the way so often.

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## PERRISCICABA

Impressive! Congrats!

Mac





> My full bore experience...
> Turn up with what ever rifle as long as I have a zero and drop chart.(within reason, no rimfires)
> Get wind practice and verify drops.
> At first I used a magnum so took it easy, only usually shot six rounds per match.
> Then started using .223 as well, and liked shooting the full amount of rounds.
> Only recently iv started looking at what my score is. 
> I paid my money and nobody gave a shit if I was ftr or f class there is no stress at all. I'm not really competing so who cares.
> I'm just a guy with a rifle enjoying shooting and doing it with like minded people.
> Totally recommend it to anyone looking for a place to shoot long range. Don't be put off by classes and rules, except of course safety rules.
> I just wish work wouldn't get in the way so often.

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## bully

Thanks man! 
It's good fun isn't it. I don't get there often enough.
My 300 yard was a sad story though!

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## Percy Jones

I will be shooting this FTR rifle at my clubs semi auto champs on Saturday. It goes well, and shoots 50's easy enough with 168 projectiles. I have shot a couple of 50.9's with it at 300

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## ebf

Nothing wrong with that bully. 2moa elevation, with a good lot of those (3-7) within the 1 Moa band.

The mid range targets tend to be slightly easier. Shorts are quite hard, a lot of people struggle with them  :Thumbsup:  Less flags to look at etc.

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