# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  Summer Shotgun Practicing

## Petros_mk

Hi All,

I was hopping to do some practice shooting on clays during the coming summer weekends to get ready (ready-er) for the next gamebird season, thought I'd ask if anyone does regular clay shooting out there (around auckland) on private land?
I'd be keen to get some boxes of clay dishes etc etc, possibly even a thrower if need be. Just don't have the land where I can frequently go to. @teferrari has offered previously (thanks you - still keen to do it  :Have A Nice Day:  ) just want to check if anyone is keen to do some regular shooting or has the land were I can do this?

I thought about going to the clay club but you don't get the freedom, too many rules etc etc... 

Cheers
P

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## kawhia

i'd suggest going to a few claybird shoots, some have mid week sessions in the evening for a few hours, shoot alot of down the line and then try a few sporting days its the only way you will learn to hit them consistantly, don't forget the rough shooters trials held just before the season too.

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## Toby

Opening day is the practice day  :Grin:

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## kawhia

Yeah for many a few extra cripples or missing completely is far better than actually learning to shoot and getting familiar with ya gun.

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## Petros_mk

Went to a club once up in west/north Auckland... didn't quite enjoy it, not sure why. seemed like too many rules, gun always on the shoulder before you say pull, etc etc...
Might do it against if all else fails....

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## Toby

You must be fun at parties

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## Rushy

Which side of the big smoke are you on P?

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## Petros_mk

> You must be fun at parties


 :Have A Nice Day:  depends who with.... 




> Which side of the big smoke are you on P?


North Shore

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## R93

We clay enthusiasts in the south can only dream of what's on offer around Auckland as far as clays go.
You can shoot 5 stand every week up there. Even on Wednesdays I am told.
Good on ya for wanting to get out Petros ☺
Your bird shooting becomes far more enjoyable when you're  making regular clean kills.
Skeet or mud pies (DTL) are a start but if you really want to improve your game shooting get into sporting.
The other 2 diciplines are imo are only testing mentally after a while.
They do little to improve your shooting after you reach a certain level.

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## Rushy

> We clay enthusiasts in the south can only dream of what's on offer around Auckland as far as clays go.
> You can shoot 5 stand every week up there. Even on Wednesdays I am told.


The place is less than a Kilometre away from where I am renting at the moment.  Wednesday's, and Saturdays are the prime days but also Thursday's, Friday's and Sundys can be active.  If  was into shot gunning I would go for a look see.  When I move onto my new place next year I will have a perfect place for a set up so will be canvassing neighbours.  I have had a thrower for years but it gets fuck all use.

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## Petros_mk

> We clay enthusiasts in the south can only dream of what's on offer around Auckland as far as clays go.
> You can shoot 5 stand every week up there. Even on Wednesdays I am told.
> Good on ya for wanting to get out Petros ☺
> Your bird shooting becomes far more enjoyable when you're  making regular clean kills.
> Skeet or mud pies (DTL) are a start but if you really want to improve your game shooting get into sporting.
> The other 2 diciplines are imo are only testing mentally after a while.
> They do little to improve your shooting after you reach a certain level.


thanks for the advise. Only doing it to get better for hunting...  you end up spending the whole weekend out in the forest for the very rare bird that you come accross and missing them one after another is a bit demoralising. might as well do somethign about it




> The place is less than a Kilometre away from where I am renting at the moment.  Wednesday's, and Saturdays are the prime days but also Thursday's, Friday's and Sundys can be active.  If  was into shot gunning I would go for a look see.  When I move onto my new place next year I will have a perfect place for a set up so will be canvassing neighbours.  I have had a thrower for years but it gets fuck all use.


"The place" - are we talking Waitemata club?

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## Rushy

M


> "The place" - are we talking Waitemata club?


Yep at Kumeu

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## Haggie

Had a spot, but the landowners wife decided she didnt like hearing us shoot clays on sunday every blue moon (we being me, her son and his mate/my flatmate) so im on the lookout too. The clubs seem a bit pricey considering that clays and trap ammo are dirt cheep and I have access to a thrower.

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## Dundee

I'm practicing on friggen starlings at the mo,they are flying out of every hole in any shed. Target load got this bugger tonight. :Grin:

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## Ground Control

The best game shots I know are also some of the best clay targets shots I know .
Now that's no coincidence .
But its a chicken and the egg thing , which came first  :Have A Nice Day: 
If I was a betting man I'd say game , but the art was refined and mastered on clays .

Ken

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## Petros_mk

> M
> 
> Yep at Kumeu


Any idea what are the costs to shoot at the club?

The first time I went it was $25 for 25 targets (I think!!!)
Not sure how cheaper it is if you become a member.

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## Rushy

> Any idea what are the costs to shoot at the club?
> 
> The first time I went it was $25 for 25 targets (I think!!!)
> Not sure how cheaper it is if you become a member.


No idea.  I have never been up there.  Their email address is waitemataclaytargetclub@xtra.co.nz and their phone number is 4129910 if you want to contact them.

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## Petros_mk

> No idea.  I have never been up there.  Their email address is waitemataclaytargetclub@xtra.co.nz and their phone number is 4129910 if you want to contact them.


just spoke to the guy up there.
$20 for 25 clays (non members)
It drops by half when you become a member

$155 annual membership, $10 per 25 targets.

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## Rushy

> just spoke to the guy up there.
> $20 for 25 clays (non members)
> It drops by half when you become a member
> 
> $155 annual membership, $10 per 25 targets.


I am not much of a shotgunner (although I would like to I have never been duck shooting or chasing birds behind a dog) so have done a very limited amount of clay shooting.  When I get my home built there will be a great place to do it though so I should be well set up this time next year.

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## Pointer

I agree with Kawhia, R93 and Ground control. However, i think there is one thing that's been overlooked - tuition.

In another sport I was into I spent some time with a world champion in a coaching seminar. He would correct the slightest mistake in my technique, and say one thing over and over that has stuck with me ever since - "practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect!"

It is a saying I try to apply to everything I attempt to learn. You will advance a whole lot quicker with a top gun looking over your shoulder correcting problems with your technique , than just plugging away by yourself in a paddock. Half of the things he will point out, I would bet you weren't aware of...

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## Bob Da Browning

> I agree with Kawhia, R93 and Ground control. However, i think there is one thing that's been overlooked - tuition.
> 
> In another sport I was into I spent some time with a world champion in a coaching seminar. He would correct the slightest mistake in my technique, and say one thing over and over that has stuck with me ever since - "practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect!"
> 
> It is a saying I try to apply to everything I attempt to learn. You will advance a whole lot quicker with a top gun looking over your shoulder correcting problems with your technique , than just plugging away by yourself in a paddock. Half of the things he will point out, I would bet you weren't aware of...


Great advice that

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## kawhia

yep but be prepared for 'throw that bloody gun away comment' or at the very least you need to get that gun fitted to you.

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## madds

Petros_mk I have to take you to task on your comments, BUT with the greatest of respect!
I am very heavily involved in a Sporting Clay only club in the South Island and think clubs provide a safe enviroment for shooting, not always apparent or observed in a paddock with a few mates and a thrower.
Yes it is relatively expensive, but work out the cost (our club) of two large tandem trailers, around newish 30 Promatic traps averaging nearly $4000 each, plus remotes, and other paraphernalia associated with Sporting shooting. 
You also have the added cover of Public Liability within the NZCTA. Not to mention a NZ wide website of all shoot dates, results and articles on aspects of the sport from recoil to how to approach tournament shooting.
As mentioned, unlike golf, rugby, tennis you can shoot in the same squad, dine with and freely ask advice of the best of the best in the sport from whichever country they come from.
This happened all the time in NZ when George Digweed, Ben Brunton and John Bidwell visited, and still does with the top Australians. They were all more than happy to part their knowledge, and ofen held free impromptu shoot demo's and coaching sessions, ask Tiger to do that!!!!
Our club makes a small amount on slabs (250) of ammo but it is still cheaper than some gun shops about, convenient and easy to buy a few packets or a slab from the office!!
Yes it may be fun with a hand thrower with no rules but that against a full 100 target Sporting layout 24 traps and 8/9 stands adding abit of competition as abit of spice (even if only amongst your mates in the squad) its a no brainer really.

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## Petros_mk

> Petros_mk I have to take you to task on your comments, BUT with the greatest of respect!
> I am very heavily involved in a Sporting Clay only club in the South Island and think clubs provide a safe enviroment for shooting, not always apparent or observed in a paddock with a few mates and a thrower.
> Yes it is relatively expensive, but work out the cost (our club) of two large tandem trailers, around newish 30 Promatic traps averaging nearly $4000 each, plus remotes, and other paraphernalia associated with Sporting shooting. 
> You also have the added cover of Public Liability within the NZCTA. Not to mention a NZ wide website of all shoot dates, results and articles on aspects of the sport from recoil to how to approach tournament shooting.
> As mentioned, unlike golf, rugby, tennis you can shoot in the same squad, dine with and freely ask advice of the best of the best in the sport from whichever country they come from.
> This happened all the time in NZ when George Digweed, Ben Brunton and John Bidwell visited, and still does with the top Australians. They were all more than happy to part their knowledge, and ofen held free impromptu shoot demo's and coaching sessions, ask Tiger to do that!!!!
> Our club makes a small amount on slabs (250) of ammo but it is still cheaper than some gun shops about, convenient and easy to buy a few packets or a slab from the office!!
> Yes it may be fun with a hand thrower with no rules but that against a full 100 target Sporting layout 24 traps and 8/9 stands adding abit of competition as abit of spice (even if only amongst your mates in the squad) its a no brainer really.


Thanks Madds, something to think about....

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## madds

Only my thoughts, I'm sure plenty would disagree! 
I know Gun Clubs are not for everyone, but I think that is changing. The old days of grumpy old men, bad attitudes and small introvert 'clicks' are largely gone.                    If clubs don't treat their new people as valued clients and act accordingly they will suffer. The discressionary dollar only goes so far in this day and age. 
I also appreciate not all shotgunners want to be involved in competitions, quite understandable, and I think the NZCTA is missing out hugely in $$$ because of their attitude to this.
They do not understand people just want to go out and bash a few clays, have a laugh, BBQ and afterwards a couple of quiets!!

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## mikee

> Only my thoughts, I'm sure plenty would disagree! 
> I know Gun Clubs are not for everyone, but I think that is changing. The old days of grumpy old men, bad attitudes and small introvert 'clicks' are largely gone.                    If clubs don't treat their new people as valued clients and act accordingly they will suffer. The discressionary dollar only goes so far in this day and age. 
> I also appreciate not all shotgunners want to be involved in competitions, quite understandable, and I think the NZCTA is missing out hugely in $$$ because of their attitude to this.
> They do not understand people just want to go out and bash a few clays, have a laugh, BBQ and afterwards a couple of quiets!!


Much more relaxed and fun. I would not join the GC myself but never miss shooting with the group of enthusiasts who have got their own field set up at a local farm. Much more relaxed and bloody good fun. 100 targets on a sunday morning with BBq  following

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## Petros_mk

> Only my thoughts, I'm sure plenty would disagree! 
> I know Gun Clubs are not for everyone, but I think that is changing. The old days of grumpy old men, bad attitudes and small introvert 'clicks' are largely gone.                    If clubs don't treat their new people as valued clients and act accordingly they will suffer. The discressionary dollar only goes so far in this day and age. 
> I also appreciate not all shotgunners want to be involved in competitions, quite understandable, and I think the NZCTA is missing out hugely in $$$ because of their attitude to this.
> They do not understand people just want to go out and bash a few clays, have a laugh, BBQ and afterwards a couple of quiets!!


Cost and time flexibility was the main motivator for me to keep away from clubs.
That plus the first time I went to a club there wasn't much interaction as to how I should shoot, techniques, faults etc etc...
it was more like "here is the ammo, these are the safety rules, say pull and bob's your uncle"... had they given more in-depth involvement my ears would be wide open but instead it was as if I went on a stag-do. Thus, I didn't see the difference between a club and a paddock blast on a Sunday afternoon.

I don't see myself doing fulltime clay shooting for competition, so the club may be the way to go to get the basics right, then I can do the rest at my own leasure as some have said already

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## madds

I'd say thats a good compromise. If you are ever down in the South Island during one of our events let us know and you'll be more than welcome.  
The South Island Sporting Clay Shooters run a Winter Compak Series that's absolutely perfect for 'learning' and developing good technique.
As it's easy for someone to stand behind and guide you a bit. Once you do get into a bigger shoot away from everyone but the actual squad, you can have some of the best days, with much banter and winding up.
If you take it to the International level like some of us, you can make great friends Internationally and enjoy may nights out and learn much about the country you are shooting in from locals. Theres nothing better than being in a major shoot with a 1000 shooters and all with the same interest.

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## Pointer

You guys must go to some pretty queer clubs. The one in the Tec park in Tauranga is cheap as chips and really friendly. No snobbery, all types of guns there. The pre-season eye opener is geared for hunters, really relaxed. One of the best shots there shoots a semi (and makes mean pikelets too)

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## madds

Love pikelets!! Especially with cream and a good jam.
The main reason we started the South Island Sporting Clay Shooters was to get away the old GC attitudes, and to have a Sporting Clays only club only. Not a concrete pad or lane to be seen, only two large trailers, 32+ traps and the freedom to go to any place the farmers are willing to let us. 
We also as a group didn't, to be honest, like the attitude to us 'gumboot' shooters, and the fact Sporting has the ability to make very good money for a Club which was usually squirreled away into skeet/DTL ventures. Not back into Sporting!
I think we are doing it right, no club house, maintenance, rates etc. but the ability to find the best country and an added bonus is to get away as a group. 
This year we are running the National Compak in Oamaru next week, and the Sporting Nats. in Wanaka Feb '15, so I suppose its about a few beers, great fun, plus shooting fields the way we want, unencumbered by non Sporto's input and normal club restrictions!!

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## madds

You will be more than welcome. We are running a 'fun' type day, on Mon 16 February  100 targets Sporting which may be perfect.
The real competition NZ Champs and International GP are unfortunately for NZCTA and FITASC members only.
You would be more than welcome to shoot the Monday if you wish. No panic let me know closer to the time.

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## Petros_mk

so a forum member got in touch with me, took the Saturday afternoon to show me few things and introduce me to skeet which I've never shot before, initially i thought its too hard to hit speeding clay from side to side but I was impressed by my shooting for the first time round.

Covered some basics, met few people. Todd Bender was there doing a clinic with some pretty experienced skeet shooters, exchanged few nods here and there, spent some time behind their shoulders watching how they shoot....

Bit hooked now hahahaha...50 targets went by pretty quick, especially when I kept forgetting to switch off my safety...lol... fun times...

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## Ground Control

> so a forum member got in touch with me, took the Saturday afternoon to show me few things and introduce me to skeet which I've never shot before, initially i thought its too hard to hit speeding clay from side to side but I was impressed by my shooting for the first time round.
> 
> Covered some basics, met few people. Todd Bender was there doing a clinic with some pretty experienced skeet shooters, exchanged few nods here and there, spent some time behind their shoulders watching how they shoot....
> 
> Bit hooked now hahahaha...50 targets went by pretty quick, especially when I kept forgetting to switch off my safety...lol... fun times...



If you got some tips from Todd Bender then you are a lucky man .
He is one of the best Skeet shooters on this planet .

Ken

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## Pointer

Hooked now aye Pete  :Wink:  Will do wonders for your game shooting  :Cool:

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## madds

Summer practice, Greymouth club are running a very informal Compak shoot on 17/18 January. 
It is set out as a proper Compak shoot, but no emphasis on competing just enjoying yourself.
I'll try and get a flyer on to this page!

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## R93

> Summer practice, Greymouth club are running a very informal Compak shoot on 17/18 January. 
> It is set out as a proper Compak shoot, but no emphasis on competing just enjoying yourself.
> I'll try and get a flyer on to this page!


You're starting to do this on purpose now!
I am at work till the 23😆

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## Petros_mk

> Hooked now aye Pete  Will do wonders for your game shooting


 :Have A Nice Day:  haha... its all part of the game...
Come May 2015 we'll see the difference...

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## madds



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## jakewire

I have to admit to getting keener and keener on this shotgun business, awhile ago I had a go at trap and skeet courtesy of the Fairle gun club and I really enjoyed the day [ and the night].
I've been looking at guns and posted a question here awhile ago about the different types of guns, Ie Sporting as opposed to trap etc as I didn't know the difference., just last night I googled gun clubs in nz without too much success, looking for a closer one, I believe Waimate has one though not too sure.
Sorry about the thread hijack, just got enthused. :Have A Nice Day:

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## kawhia

nice to see a change in your thoughts since page one bro.
been tempted to get another gun and start doing it again myself.

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## madds

jakewire, have a look at the NZCTA website: NZCTA affiliated clubs  or the calendar: NZCTA calendar
Not all clubs put their events on the calendar, make you wonder really, but it will give you some idea of whats going on.
Geraldine are having a Compak shoot tomorrow week (14th Dec) at their club grounds, Tiplady Rd. Geraldine.
Don't worry about that trap and skeet business, Sporting is the way to go, lot more fun and social, you can actually laugh during around with our sport!!!

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## Petros_mk

> nice to see a change in your thoughts since page one bro.
> been tempted to get another gun and start doing it again myself.


Why the hell not. Do it!!!!! Lol

Yea its been good I have to admit. Im just cleaning the gun from this morning shooting. Shot few tricky doubles I didnt think I was capable of. Quite pleased... 

Yildiz 20g seems to do the job just fine  :Thumbsup:

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## madds

So Petros_mk, we'll see you on the Coast in January. see how a real friendly Gun club operates!!
Glad you 'anti' clubs are good enough, and honest enough to say your experiences were not too bad.
It takes a bit of guts to openly change your views, even halfway.
Some clubs, like most places, work very hard to attract punters, some not so good I admit. 
Especially those who consider them their own personal play ground and resent 'intruders'. They won't be round much longer.

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## Petros_mk

> So Petros_mk, we'll see you on the Coast in January. see how a real friendly Gun club operates!!
> Glad you 'anti' clubs are good enough, and honest enough to say your experiences were not too bad.
> It takes a bit of guts to openly change your views, even halfway.
> Some clubs, like most places, work very hard to attract punters, some not so good I admit. 
> Especially those who consider them their own personal play ground and resent 'intruders'. They won't be round much longer.


Ehhhh if I'm wrong about something I'm wrong... live and learn...
Tho, talking to people at the club apparently DTL is not very social anyway (in comparison to Skeet), which explains why I didn't like it the first time I went there...I still don't get why tho...

Either way, as of last Saturday morning I am now an annual member of the clay shooting club....  as if I don't have enough hobbies as it is  :Have A Nice Day: .

Saturday was interesting, I shot some interesting targets that I thought was way to fast for me. Ended up shooting some Station 2 & 6 doubles (if I remember correctly). but at the same time I missed some stupid things like station 1 and 7 single clay.... I found that in controlled environment I can see the basic things I did were wrong. A lot of the missed targets I did on the weekend was because the butt of the stock was catching on my vest and the mount wasn't right when I pulled the trigger. Couple of times I didn't have a proper swing, I was chasing the target by which time I was too late for the second clay...

Another thing I noticed, after shooting some good successive clays, I started dropping my guard a bit thinking "I GOT THIS". Overconfident at times, so I missed the next lot. hahaha... Rookie stuff...
Its good tho that I shoot with a dude from the club, he tends to stand behind me and sees where I go wrong.

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## jakewire

> jakewire, have a look at the NZCTA website: NZCTA affiliated clubs  or the calendar: NZCTA calendar
> Not all clubs put their events on the calendar, make you wonder really, but it will give you some idea of whats going on.
> Geraldine are having a Compak shoot tomorrow week (14th Dec) at their club grounds, Tiplady Rd. Geraldine.
> Don't worry about that trap and skeet business, Sporting is the way to go, lot more fun and social, you can actually laugh during around with our sport!!!


Thanks madds,wonder if I,ve got where I went that time mixed.
What sort of Gun for sporting.
What is a compak shoot.
Cheers.

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## madds

jakewire, any gun for Sporting when you start. there are specific 'Sporting guns' so called usually shooting slightly high. Mine for example shoots 70/30- 70% above the point of impact 30% below. Means I can see the target above my barrel at all times.
They are normally 30-36 (rare, but a couple around at 36inch)  and are more like a trap gun as to a skeet one.
I read this the other day and you may find it interesting.

""To understand the differences, it can be helpful first to look at the different types of targets presented in the two disciplines, Down the Line and Sporting.

Trap targets are always going away from you and, at the point you shoot them, they are rising.

They are also projected within an arc of about 60 degrees in front. Targets in the different trap disciplines vary slightly, but that’s the general picture.

To tackle rising targets, a trap gun is configured so that it shoots slightly high. This enables the shooter to fire with the target in view just above the muzzle end of the rib, and hit it right in the middle of the pattern.

As the target is retreating from the shooter at quite a rapid rate, choking is usually quite tight: 3/4in the lower barrel (which is fired first), and full in the top.

Also, when tackling trap targets you don’t have to swing the gun as quickly or as far as you do in Sporting, so the gun can be heavier (which helps to soak up recoil), and also steadier in its handling.

Many trap guns weigh over 8lb.

As you can see, it is a tool designed to do a job, and it isn’t much use for anything other than trap.

Sporting, however, is designed to be a simulation of field shooting, and the variety of targets is limited only by the course setter’s imagination and, of course, safety considerations.

Targets can be incoming, outgoing, crossing, quartering, rising, falling, curling – in fact doing almost anything a wild bird can do.

The Sporter, therefore, needs to be designed as a sort of ‘compromise’ gun.

It shoots closer to point of aim than a trap gun, is less tightly choked (1/4 and 1/4 being the norm in a fixed-choke), and its handling and balance are designed for fast swinging.

Sporters usually weigh between 7.1/2lb and 7.3/4lb.

Being a compromise gun in the way it handles, balances and shoots, you can also use a Sporter for skeet as well as pigeon and game shooting.

That’s why we usually advise newcomers to pick a Sporter as their first gun.

To describe perfectly look at:  About Skeet - Trap - Sporting Clays - Five Stand - Clay Targets
Diagrammatically explains the shotgunning codes differences.
We shoot a version of 5 stand (Compak) as well as Sporting. Look at the https://www.facebook.com/pages/South...73?ref=profile page and the NZ Compak photos.
We ran this shoot the other day and the photos (past the aerial ones) will show you typical Compak layouts.
CHEERS!!

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## jakewire

Cheers Madds

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## madds

PLEASURE!! Happy to help anyone into Sporting!!

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## northdude

I scratch my head and wonder about the to many rules comment common sense would tell me that in and environment where firearms are present there would need to be a set of rules in place for the safety of everyone a to many rules attitude to me is a dangerous attitude to have around firearms

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## madds

I personally don't think that there are too many rules within our Association . There are sufficient only to promote safety, the rest is all about the Association, different shoots, team selections, rules and regs. re 
codes of conduct, qualifying etc,etc.
The only real rule is guns open at all times, no exceptions unless actually addressing the target. Pretty basic and simple.
One would hope that that sort of rule was adopted down on the farm or anywhere shooters gathered, informal or not! 
If traps break down all guns must to unloaded, not just broken. Autos must be carried in a safe position, muzzle up or down, some are now reverting to those colored tags inserted in the breech.
Some clubs shoot in cages, adding to the safety, though for FITASC Sporting competition you are in a meter circle, safe as again only the shooter has a loaded firearm.
In the UK all shooters (law I think?) must have their guns in slips between stands.
There is a lot of carry on in some shotgun clubs little of it to do with safety or anything to be worried about for the casual shooters who just want to break (or otherwise) a few clays.

.

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## mikee

> There is a lot of carry on in some shotgun clubs *little of it to do with safety* or anything to be worried about for the casual shooters who just want to break (or otherwise) a few clays.


And that is it in a Nutshell. 

I much prefer shooting with the group of "Gentlemen  :Have A Nice Day:  that I do rather than the GC. Only been to the "local"  2-3 times but no inclination to join them too. What I have seen of the politics turns me off rather than the Facilities (which are excellent by the way)

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## madds

Fair call!! 
Some of us enjoy, add to the politics and are even part of trying to change and develop some attitudes for the better!
But that's just a personal thing I suppose. 
As I've said before G.C's should be taping into the huge potential of casual (for lack of a better word) shooters. It would make them in a very shooting powerful lobby if they had that sort of support. Not to mention wealthy and being able to provide excellent facilities for punters. Pipe dreams I'd say, unfortunately!!)

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## Ground Control

For years I was a turn up , pay my money , shoot some clays , somebody else will clean up my mess , why don't they do it differently , the club comity couldn't  organize a chook raffle at a chicken farm,   type of shooter .
To my surprise over the last little while I've become involved and have even become a comity member at my local club .
I decided that whinging about how it could be better managed is a lazy persons sport , and maybe it was time to put something back into what I'd taken for granted for so long .
I don't know all the clubs you guys are talking about , so I can only use my own one as an example .
The modern world of Safety , Liability , Legal requirements , Land usage , Local by-laws etc etc etc has invaded even our little Gun club  . The old ways of Sunday being a get away from the hassles of our daily grind has disappeared and turned into a bureaucratic jungle war .
Next time your at a club and you witness things that seem unnecessary take a moment to think through the reasoning behind the perceived stupidity .
9 times out of 10 its stupidity that has been forced upon the club , and rightly or wrongly the only course of action the club has is to comply or possibly lose its license or accreditation    . 

Every club has at least one over the top idiot who was probably bullied at school and is now trying to right that injustice by becoming the club Sheriff who brings law and order to the mishmash of unruly members .
Its your choice whether you treat that person with respect , disdain or embarrassment .
Fundamentally all sports have rules , without them there is just chaos , the clubs that administer , organize and provide infrastructure for those sports are no different , they have rules they must play by as well . 

I can certainly see how attractive and refreshing the idea of a few mates in a farmers paddock is .
But even though that is Fun with a capital F , that is not true competition , your not testing your skills against unknown and in my case usually better opponents which is a huge part of the attraction for many . 

I'll probably not seek reelection to the Comity next year , Ive achieved what I set out to do and will leave the paperwork for those who are much more qualified than me , but I will retire with a better understanding of how things work and the knowledge that the carpark expert who is full of moans and groans is also full of Shit .


Ken

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## madds

Ken, you can have some of our car park experts.
Never been outside their own club environment, big fish their and everyone knows.
It's not only shooting I must say, all clubs have these problems. 
Take that 'expert' outside to a big shoot with some real competition maybe International top shooters and , well that's worth a laugh every excuse in the world why they shot badly, how bad the targets were, never should have set a target at 50/65  meters how ridiculous!! MOAN, MOAN, back to small pond. digress!
I suppose its just a matter of what you want out of it personally. 
I feel sorry for the Aussies, permits, taking months for approval, no autos, no bar normally (legally), We shot their Nationals in October, as we do every year, they needed months of organizing. NZ, knock on the door ask the farmer, we always tell local cops as a courtesy, but then away we go. Long may it happen.

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## Petros_mk

> I scratch my head and wonder about the to many rules comment common sense would tell me that in and environment where firearms are present there would need to be a set of rules in place for the safety of everyone a to many rules attitude to me is a dangerous attitude to have around firearms


When it comes to safety around guns, I'm right there with you. For that matter, I get twitchy even with open guns and barrels are pointing at me (or someone). I can't stand it, it annoys the living shit out of me....

When I say too many rules example would be "gun on the shoulder before you say pull" (a got asked to do this when I did DTL - not skeet), when hunting my gun is not on the shoulder when I ask my dog to flush a bird.
So doing the same in a clay practice environment (which I am only doing to get better for hunting) does not really reflect the real life hunting situation IMHO.

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## mikee

> When it comes to safety around guns, I'm right there with you. For that matter, I get twitchy even with open guns and barrels are pointing at me (or someone). I can't stand it, it annoys the living shit out of me....
> 
> When I say too many rules example would be "gun on the shoulder before you say pull" (a got asked to do this when I did DTL - not skeet), when hunting my gun is not on the shoulder when I ask my dog to flush a bird.
> So doing the same in a clay practice environment (which I am only doing to get better for hunting) does not really reflect the real life hunting situation IMHO.


I only shoot sporting so its "gun down" for me. Petros if you are ever in Nelson mate, Come shoot with us. I am sure you will enjoy it. We shoot  Round of 25 Sport  clays followed by 100 clays, sometimes "on report" or usually "true pairs".

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## Petros_mk

> I only shoot sporting so its "gun down" for me. Petros if you are ever in Nelson mate, Come shoot with us. I am sure you will enjoy it. We shoot  Round of 25 Sport  clays followed by 100 clays, sometimes "on report" or usually "true pairs".


Thanks Mike, same applies to you, 
I'm well overdue for a south island trip that I've never done.

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## Chris

You might want to check with the local branches of NZDA , the Thames Valley branch run twilight sporting clays threw summer on Thursdays .Start is 5pm ,nominations close at 7pm. BBQ on & a couple of bevies after if you want .Muareen Coleman is the man to contact via the TVDA web site ,only a 1 1/2 hr from Auck;s .Club has 80k of automatic traps & a good group of people .
But check with the local branchs round Auckland ,south Auckland use to be very active on most things .

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## madds

Invitation also extends from South island Sporting Clay Shooters. We set up because other NZCTA clubs were not running shoots or extending the attitude we wanted to portrait to outsiders, or potential members, so we formed a new club.
We run a great little winter series of Compak and 'The Great Sporting Weekend of two days of Duck shooters style Sporting Clays plus run some bigger competitions on behalf of the NZCTA.
Just run a very successful NZ Compak 4 days in Oamaru, and are hosting 5 days of Sporting including NZ Sporting Champs and NZ Grand Prix in Wanaka next February.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/South...73?ref=profile

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## mikee

> Invitation also extends from South island Sporting Clay Shooters. We set up because other NZCTA clubs were not running shoots or extending the attitude we wanted to portrait to outsiders, or potential members, so we formed a new club.
> We run a great little winter series of Compak and 'The Great Sporting Weekend of two days of Duck shooters style Sporting Clays plus run some bigger competitions on behalf of the NZCTA.
> Just run a very successful NZ Compak 4 days in Oamaru, and are hosting 5 days of Sporting including NZ Sporting Champs and NZ Grand Prix in Wanaka next February.
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/South...73?ref=profile


Sounds similar to the way our little group got formed as far as I understand it. Some of them I believe were attending your shoot in Oamaru too.

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## madds

jakewire, any gun for Sporting when you start. there are specific 'Sporting guns' so called usually shooting slightly high. Mine for example shoots 70/30- 70% above the point of impact 30% below. Means I can see the target above my barrel at all times.
They are normally 30-36 (rare, but a couple around at 36inch)  and are more like a trap gun as to a skeet one.
I read this the other day and you may find it interesting.

""To understand the differences, it can be helpful first to look at the different types of targets presented in the two disciplines, Down the Line and Sporting.

Trap targets are always going away from you and, at the point you shoot them, they are rising.

They are also projected within an arc of about 60 degrees in front. Targets in the different trap disciplines vary slightly, but that’s the general picture.

To tackle rising targets, a trap gun is configured so that it shoots slightly high. This enables the shooter to fire with the target in view just above the muzzle end of the rib, and hit it right in the middle of the pattern.

As the target is retreating from the shooter at quite a rapid rate, choking is usually quite tight: 3/4in the lower barrel (which is fired first), and full in the top.

Also, when tackling trap targets you don’t have to swing the gun as quickly or as far as you do in Sporting, so the gun can be heavier (which helps to soak up recoil), and also steadier in its handling.

Many trap guns weigh over 8lb.

As you can see, it is a tool designed to do a job, and it isn’t much use for anything other than trap.

Sporting, however, is designed to be a simulation of field shooting, and the variety of targets is limited only by the course setter’s imagination and, of course, safety considerations.

Targets can be incoming, outgoing, crossing, quartering, rising, falling, curling – in fact doing almost anything a wild bird can do.

The Sporter, therefore, needs to be designed as a sort of ‘compromise’ gun.

It shoots closer to point of aim than a trap gun, is less tightly choked (1/4 and 1/4 being the norm in a fixed-choke), and its handling and balance are designed for fast swinging.

Sporters usually weigh between 7.1/2lb and 7.3/4lb.

Being a compromise gun in the way it handles, balances and shoots, you can also use a Sporter for skeet as well as pigeon and game shooting.

That’s why we usually advise newcomers to pick a Sporter as their first gun.

To describe perfectly look at:  About Skeet - Trap - Sporting Clays - Five Stand - Clay Targets
Diagrammatically explains the shotgunning codes differences.
We shoot a version of 5 stand (Compak) as well as Sporting. Look at the https://www.facebook.com/pages/South...73?ref=profile page and the NZ Compak photos.
We ran this shoot the other day and the photos (past the aerial ones) will show you typical Compak layouts.
CHEERS!!

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## jakewire

Cheers Madds

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## madds

PLEASURE!! Happy to help anyone into Sporting!!

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## northdude

I scratch my head and wonder about the to many rules comment common sense would tell me that in and environment where firearms are present there would need to be a set of rules in place for the safety of everyone a to many rules attitude to me is a dangerous attitude to have around firearms

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## madds

I personally don't think that there are too many rules within our Association . There are sufficient only to promote safety, the rest is all about the Association, different shoots, team selections, rules and regs. re 
codes of conduct, qualifying etc,etc.
The only real rule is guns open at all times, no exceptions unless actually addressing the target. Pretty basic and simple.
One would hope that that sort of rule was adopted down on the farm or anywhere shooters gathered, informal or not! 
If traps break down all guns must to unloaded, not just broken. Autos must be carried in a safe position, muzzle up or down, some are now reverting to those colored tags inserted in the breech.
Some clubs shoot in cages, adding to the safety, though for FITASC Sporting competition you are in a meter circle, safe as again only the shooter has a loaded firearm.
In the UK all shooters (law I think?) must have their guns in slips between stands.
There is a lot of carry on in some shotgun clubs little of it to do with safety or anything to be worried about for the casual shooters who just want to break (or otherwise) a few clays.

.

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## mikee

> There is a lot of carry on in some shotgun clubs *little of it to do with safety* or anything to be worried about for the casual shooters who just want to break (or otherwise) a few clays.


And that is it in a Nutshell. 

I much prefer shooting with the group of "Gentlemen  :Have A Nice Day:  that I do rather than the GC. Only been to the "local"  2-3 times but no inclination to join them too. What I have seen of the politics turns me off rather than the Facilities (which are excellent by the way)

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## madds

Fair call!! 
Some of us enjoy, add to the politics and are even part of trying to change and develop some attitudes for the better!
But that's just a personal thing I suppose. 
As I've said before G.C's should be taping into the huge potential of casual (for lack of a better word) shooters. It would make them in a very shooting powerful lobby if they had that sort of support. Not to mention wealthy and being able to provide excellent facilities for punters. Pipe dreams I'd say, unfortunately!!)

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## Ground Control

For years I was a turn up , pay my money , shoot some clays , somebody else will clean up my mess , why don't they do it differently , the club comity couldn't  organize a chook raffle at a chicken farm,   type of shooter .
To my surprise over the last little while I've become involved and have even become a comity member at my local club .
I decided that whinging about how it could be better managed is a lazy persons sport , and maybe it was time to put something back into what I'd taken for granted for so long .
I don't know all the clubs you guys are talking about , so I can only use my own one as an example .
The modern world of Safety , Liability , Legal requirements , Land usage , Local by-laws etc etc etc has invaded even our little Gun club  . The old ways of Sunday being a get away from the hassles of our daily grind has disappeared and turned into a bureaucratic jungle war .
Next time your at a club and you witness things that seem unnecessary take a moment to think through the reasoning behind the perceived stupidity .
9 times out of 10 its stupidity that has been forced upon the club , and rightly or wrongly the only course of action the club has is to comply or possibly lose its license or accreditation    . 

Every club has at least one over the top idiot who was probably bullied at school and is now trying to right that injustice by becoming the club Sheriff who brings law and order to the mishmash of unruly members .
Its your choice whether you treat that person with respect , disdain or embarrassment .
Fundamentally all sports have rules , without them there is just chaos , the clubs that administer , organize and provide infrastructure for those sports are no different , they have rules they must play by as well . 

I can certainly see how attractive and refreshing the idea of a few mates in a farmers paddock is .
But even though that is Fun with a capital F , that is not true competition , your not testing your skills against unknown and in my case usually better opponents which is a huge part of the attraction for many . 

I'll probably not seek reelection to the Comity next year , Ive achieved what I set out to do and will leave the paperwork for those who are much more qualified than me , but I will retire with a better understanding of how things work and the knowledge that the carpark expert who is full of moans and groans is also full of Shit .


Ken

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## madds

Ken, you can have some of our car park experts.
Never been outside their own club environment, big fish their and everyone knows.
It's not only shooting I must say, all clubs have these problems. 
Take that 'expert' outside to a big shoot with some real competition maybe International top shooters and , well that's worth a laugh every excuse in the world why they shot badly, how bad the targets were, never should have set a target at 50/65  meters how ridiculous!! MOAN, MOAN, back to small pond. digress!
I suppose its just a matter of what you want out of it personally. 
I feel sorry for the Aussies, permits, taking months for approval, no autos, no bar normally (legally), We shot their Nationals in October, as we do every year, they needed months of organizing. NZ, knock on the door ask the farmer, we always tell local cops as a courtesy, but then away we go. Long may it happen.

----------


## Petros_mk

> I scratch my head and wonder about the to many rules comment common sense would tell me that in and environment where firearms are present there would need to be a set of rules in place for the safety of everyone a to many rules attitude to me is a dangerous attitude to have around firearms


When it comes to safety around guns, I'm right there with you. For that matter, I get twitchy even with open guns and barrels are pointing at me (or someone). I can't stand it, it annoys the living shit out of me....

When I say too many rules example would be "gun on the shoulder before you say pull" (a got asked to do this when I did DTL - not skeet), when hunting my gun is not on the shoulder when I ask my dog to flush a bird.
So doing the same in a clay practice environment (which I am only doing to get better for hunting) does not really reflect the real life hunting situation IMHO.

----------


## mikee

> When it comes to safety around guns, I'm right there with you. For that matter, I get twitchy even with open guns and barrels are pointing at me (or someone). I can't stand it, it annoys the living shit out of me....
> 
> When I say too many rules example would be "gun on the shoulder before you say pull" (a got asked to do this when I did DTL - not skeet), when hunting my gun is not on the shoulder when I ask my dog to flush a bird.
> So doing the same in a clay practice environment (which I am only doing to get better for hunting) does not really reflect the real life hunting situation IMHO.


I only shoot sporting so its "gun down" for me. Petros if you are ever in Nelson mate, Come shoot with us. I am sure you will enjoy it. We shoot  Round of 25 Sport  clays followed by 100 clays, sometimes "on report" or usually "true pairs".

----------


## Petros_mk

> I only shoot sporting so its "gun down" for me. Petros if you are ever in Nelson mate, Come shoot with us. I am sure you will enjoy it. We shoot  Round of 25 Sport  clays followed by 100 clays, sometimes "on report" or usually "true pairs".


Thanks Mike, same applies to you, 
I'm well overdue for a south island trip that I've never done.

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## Chris

You might want to check with the local branches of NZDA , the Thames Valley branch run twilight sporting clays threw summer on Thursdays .Start is 5pm ,nominations close at 7pm. BBQ on & a couple of bevies after if you want .Muareen Coleman is the man to contact via the TVDA web site ,only a 1 1/2 hr from Auck;s .Club has 80k of automatic traps & a good group of people .
But check with the local branchs round Auckland ,south Auckland use to be very active on most things .

----------


## madds

Invitation also extends from South island Sporting Clay Shooters. We set up because other NZCTA clubs were not running shoots or extending the attitude we wanted to portrait to outsiders, or potential members, so we formed a new club.
We run a great little winter series of Compak and 'The Great Sporting Weekend of two days of Duck shooters style Sporting Clays plus run some bigger competitions on behalf of the NZCTA.
Just run a very successful NZ Compak 4 days in Oamaru, and are hosting 5 days of Sporting including NZ Sporting Champs and NZ Grand Prix in Wanaka next February.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/South...73?ref=profile

----------


## mikee

> Invitation also extends from South island Sporting Clay Shooters. We set up because other NZCTA clubs were not running shoots or extending the attitude we wanted to portrait to outsiders, or potential members, so we formed a new club.
> We run a great little winter series of Compak and 'The Great Sporting Weekend of two days of Duck shooters style Sporting Clays plus run some bigger competitions on behalf of the NZCTA.
> Just run a very successful NZ Compak 4 days in Oamaru, and are hosting 5 days of Sporting including NZ Sporting Champs and NZ Grand Prix in Wanaka next February.
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/South...73?ref=profile


Sounds similar to the way our little group got formed as far as I understand it. Some of them I believe were attending your shoot in Oamaru too.

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