# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Gun Cleaning

## possummatti

What's everyone use for gun cleaning eg. Bore snake,  brushes? I have a 12g and .308 that i need to buy cleaning gear for. 

Cheers possummatti

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## hunter308

I have a proper cleaning kit at home for giving a proper clean, and have a bore snake handy while at the range,  generally my rifle does not get cleaned till I get home

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## kiwijames

Get a one piece rod with bronze and nylon brushes as well as a patch jag and patches for the 308. 
You will need to remove both carbon and copper from your centerfire so will need chemical to do these tasks. I suggest KG1 and KG12 but there are others.
Shotgun? Not my field but smoothbore has to be easy to clean with powder and wad residue coming out pretty easy Id guess.

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## Toby

I got a bit of rope wrapped some lead around one end made a loop in the other and put a rag on it. A bore snake I guess, just it was free. They work mean as I spray a bit of oil or what ever on it and then shes good to pull through

For my centerfires I use a one piece rod. Stay away from those cheap 3 piece brass sets on trademe. me and a mate got one each and they both just snapped on the threads.

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## Nick-D

Yeap, 1 piece rod, patch jag and brushes, the slotted tip patch holders are crap IMO. Also dont forget a boreguide. Not strictly a must, buts helps eliminate operator error.

I also have a chamber/action cleaning kit, but thats because I like my toys clean clean.

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## possummatti

My mates telling me that he wouldnt bother cleaning the inside of the barrel and he never has???

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## ebf

Get another mate.... That one obviously does not have any respect for firearms...

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## 308

Yeah, your mate is wrong

Another one who says yes to the one-piece rod - Hoppes #9 on the brush and on the jag pushing the crap out then Eezox for me.
If it needs a serious clean and you use Sweets then FFS don't leave it in there too long - one sniff of the bottle will tell ya why







> Get another mate.... That one obviously does not have any respect for firearms...

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## ebf

One piece cleaning rod, jags, brushes, patches, solvent, oil

Jags come in 3 basic forms : slotted (waste of time imo), spear point and parker hale style. The parker hale style has barbs and allows to to wrap a patch tightly around it, the benefit is that you can pull back without dislodging the patch.

Here's what I do, might seem excessive to some, but different ways to skin a cat...

Put a bit of solvent on a patch and wipe down the bolt
Clean off the solvent with a dry patch
Lightly oil a patch and wipe down the bolt

Put some solvent on a patch and use a chamber stick (dowel, chopstick etc) to rotate the patch in the chamber & throat area
Soak a patch in solvent, and use a jag to push it thru the barrel. Some guys focus more on the initial section of the barrel, so 1/3 down then pull back, then 2/3 down then pull back, then all the way.
Dip a bronze brush in solvent and push it down the barrel. I NEVER pull a bronze brush back thru the crown, if you are going to do it, then do it very slowly (see crown damage below)
Use dry patches on a spear point jag until they come out clean. If after 3 or 4 patches they dont come out clean, go pack to the soaked solvent patch.
Lightly oil a patch and push that thru the barrel. Now it is ready for storage.

Solvent wise, I use a hierarchy : Hoppes #9, if that does not get it clean, then I go to Butches Bore Shine (pretty much pure amonia), and if that still does not work, then I use JB Paste.

Common problem with cleaning and how to fix them (it's not that hard screwing up a nice rifle by improper cleaning - go chat to a couple of gunsmiths):

Crown : don't pull back metal brushes into the crown, or do it VERY slowly so that the brush is properly aligned
Throat & barrel : use a bore guide, use a single piece rod, multi-piece metal rods are not good

Or you could listen to your mate and have the gun rust (with enough abuse even "stainless" rifles will rust), loose value and at some point it will fail because of poor maintenance.

Bore snake is handy for field cleaning, take along some solvent and oil in mini plastic bottles.

Tape up the muzzle with electrical tape to prevent crap from getting into the barrel when you are in the bush. The gas in front of the projectile will blow it off, don't worry about the barrel exploding or bulging  :Have A Nice Day:

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## possummatti

> One piece cleaning rod, jags, brushes, patches, solvent, oil
> 
> Jags come in 3 basic forms : slotted (waste of time imo), spear point and parker hale style. The parker hale style has barbs and allows to to wrap a patch tightly around it, the benefit is that you can pull back without dislodging the patch.
> 
> Here's what I do, might seem excessive to some, but different ways to skin a cat...
> 
> Put a bit of solvent on a patch and wipe down the bolt
> Clean off the solvent with a dry patch
> Lightly oil a patch and wipe down the bolt
> ...


That's bloody interesting mate. Ive always oiled and cleaned my shotgun religiously after every use even if it didnt need it. So though it was a bit strange what my mate said. So your legit about leaving the tape on the barrel even when firing? Cheers

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## ebf

> So your legit about leaving the tape on the barrel even when firing? Cheers


Yup, single layer over the hole and once around to hold the edges down.

Can't guarantee the results if you go ape and use a whole roll  :Psmiley:

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## possummatti

> Yup, single layer over the hole and once around to hold the edges down.
> 
> Can't guarantee the results if you go ape and use a whole roll


Haha 1 minute ill report back with the answer

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## Bagheera

EBF's basic instructions are good. (so is the tape - standard practice in NZ now)
It's best to have both a 1piece rod for at home and a pullthrough or boresnake for in the bush.  I personally don't consider a boresnake very hygienic as it can't really get the last pass very clean but might be OK if you wash it regularly.
Remember to run a couple of dry patches through before you shoot next.
Hoppes can dry to a gum if left more than a couple of months.  I run a dry patch through afterwards then use a light waterproof oil on one patch then dry patch after that and dry out the chamber too.  Then the gun is ready to shoot without further cleaning.  The thin film of oil left after the dry patch protects the bore from rust and moisture.  Very fine penetrating oils (WD40, CRC, Inox MX3) are said to creep or evaporate away over time so not recommended for storage.  I use an hydraulic pump oil but new engine oil will do at a pinch and several gun oil manufacturers make special oils.  
For a start you can keep it simple like this.
Removing copper is a further stage but not so essential in the short term.  You need a special solvent like Boretech (or Sweets !!) so ask Mr Google when you want to look into that.  No hurry.

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## veitnamcam

> My mates telling me that he wouldnt bother cleaning the inside of the barrel and he never has???


Don't ever let him have first shot and make sure you are well away from him when he fires !

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## stuart165

i use boretech eliminator wet patches till they push through clean, (no blue) but you have to use a aluminum jag so you dont get trace off your jag.then dry patches. after that run a wet hoppes patch through and put the gun away till i use it next and dry patch before my next shoot. this is for a target barrel.

was also just told not to dip my brushes into the solvent as the residue will kill the solvent over time, just drip it onto the brush.

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## ebf

> was also just told not to dip my brushes into the solvent as the residue will kill the solvent over time, just drip it onto the brush.


True, I decant solvent into smaller containers, and use those for cleaning, it does not last long enough for contamination to become an issue.

Opposite is also true, if you leave solvent on the bronze brushes and jags, the solvent will start eating those. Rinse the brushes and jags in a general purpose thinner to make them last longer.

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## possummatti

> True, I decant solvent into smaller containers, and use those for cleaning, it does not last long enough for contamination to become an issue.
> 
> Opposite is also true, if you leave solvent on the bronze brushes and jags, the solvent will start eating those. Rinse the brushes and jags in a general purpose thinner to make them last longer.


Where do you get the solvent from ebf? I take it thats what removes the copper

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## Dougie

I don't use solvent, just oil. Am I a bad person??! 

And tape on the end is an absolute must. I carry a bit of extra taped around the stock so I can recover after first shot before trekking over for a carry out. 


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## Barefoot

I'm surprised at the number of people using tape over the barrel. Does that mean I'm just lucky then that I don't get rubbish in my barrel for the last 40yrs?

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## ebf

> I don't use solvent, just oil. Am I a bad person??!


Terrible, 5 lashes  :Psmiley: 




> Where do you get the solvent from ebf? I take it thats what removes the copper


Gunshop. Different solvents do different things. Some (hoppes, collings) are general purpose, some are specific to copper, carbon etc.

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## Moutere

To the OP,
As others have suggested, a bore guide and a one peice rod are a very good starting point for maintaining rifled barrels.
After that there is an endless amount of online & published material regarding products, techniques, frequency, facts & fallacies.
It will take a lot reading and trying a few things to come up with your own regimen.
Don't get too hung up on all the different ideas and find what works for you within your budget.

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## Moutere

> I'm surprised at the number of people using tape over the barrel. Does that mean I'm just lucky then that I don't get rubbish in my barrel for the last 40yrs?


I've always taped the muzzle to try and mitigate the chance of plugging the barrel if I tripped, as much as stopping debris.

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## steven

Personally I think heavy cleaning ie scrubbing the bore with nasty solvents and especially removing copper is a bad idea but I know I am in a minority.  

Certainly you need to remove carbon every 200 rounds or so depending on the barrel, some foul at <100 some go a lot longer.

So I clean with a carbon solvent and brass brush, mop out, repeat if really gunky and put a wet oiled patch through, that's it.  

My reason for not cleaning the copper off is due to some "exotic" tribology theory ie at high velocities the copper goes liquid and reduces friction substantially. Same theory of skiing and skis.  

regards

regards

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## R93

I'm with you Steve.  The military is only just learning that an over zealous cleaning regime does more damage than a unclean barrel will ever do.

I ensure all working parts are free of dirt and lubed where required etc.
Barrel sees a rod once every 100-150 rounds and it is a light regime of carbon removal.
I use HBN on my projectiles for my centrefires. This may help a lot but I never see much copper and only have carbon buildup. 
Having good aftermarket barrels help as well I spose.



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## steven

Oh and to oil / protect the bore, an engine upper cylinder oil from repco is 1/2 the price of fancy gun oils, its also is supposed to loosen baked on carbon, what a good idea that sounds.

;]

Other areas I use Baristol.

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## Moutere

I side with the less is more approach too.

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## Gibo

> I'm with you Steve.  The military is only just learning that an over zealous cleaning regime does more damage than a unclean barrel will ever do.
> 
> I ensure all working parts are free of dirt and lubed where required etc.
> Barrel sees a rod once every 100-150 rounds and it is a light regime of carbon removal.
> I use HBN on my projectiles for my centrefires. This may help a lot but I never see much copper and only have carbon buildup. 
> Having good aftermarket barrels help as well I spose.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Whats HBN

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## ebf

HBN (hexagonal boron nitride) is what the projectile coating fraternity is now using once they found out that molybdenum disulfide was not the miracle cure...

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## R93

> Whats HBN


Hexagonal Boron Nitride.

It reduces friction and lines your barrel with a ceramic coating.
Heaps better than moly in my experience and less messy.


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## Gibo

> Hexagonal Boron Nitride.
> 
> It reduces friction and lines your barrel with a ceramic coating.
> Heaps better than moly in my experience and less messy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Oh really, I just press them in and pull. Do you put it on before loading up or after?

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## ebf

Haha Gibo, bit more involved than that.

http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletcoating.html

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## Gibo

> Haha Gibo, bit more involved than that.
> 
> http://www.6mmbr.com/bulletcoating.html


Good god you guys get carried away!!!

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## R93

> Good god you guys get carried away!!!


It is piece of mind and piece of piss to do.
If you seen the ES and accuracy I get from getting carried away, you would swim to Canada to buy some😷
I have a lifetime supply of it so I'm good.

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## Gibo

> It is piece of mind and piece of piss to do.
> If you seen the ES and accuracy I get from getting carried away, you would swim to Canada to buy some
> I have a lifetime supply of it so I'm good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


That sounds like I have shares in a lifetime supply too then  :Psmiley:   :Grin:

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## R93

> That sounds like I have shares in a lifetime supply too then


Send me down some projectiles and I will do some up for you.
If they are. .277 they won't work.
HBN is homphobic 

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## steven

> HBN (hexagonal boron nitride) is what the projectile coating fraternity is now using once they found out that molybdenum disulfide was not the miracle cure...


What was it curing? cancer? aids?  a lousy shot?

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## Gibo

> Send me down some projectiles and I will do some up for you.
> If they are. .277 they won't work.
> HBN is homphobic 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Im ok mate. They go well enough  :Wink:

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## ebf

> What was it curing? cancer? aids?  a lousy shot?


Steven, every single "coater" I have spoken to, the first reason they give is "I don't have to clean my rifle", so I'd say it seems to cure an aversion to cleaning rifles...

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## GaDawg

I use Butch's bore cleaner, Butch's patches, a non-metal bore brush, and a carbon cleaning rod. I clean my bench gun after every 20 rounds, and my hunting rifles after hunting, even if I don't fire it. A clean weapon won't normally fail you.
Good shooting and hunting.

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## Turehu

[QUOTE=ebf;301909]Yup, single layer over the hole and once around to hold the edges down.

Can't guarantee the results if you go ape and use a whole roll  :Psmiley: [/QUOTE Used a Jungle Carbine for years and a Condom and a rubber band was the best to keep snow and shit out of the barrel, works on any firearm if you can convince the missus

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## steven

I must admit when I look at the hardness of a barrel's material, its finish and the heat and physical stresses its put under ( I mean typically it is worn out with about 10 actual seconds of use) and then I hear/read ppl "suggesting theories" on cleaning significantly damaging a barrel I just go "huh? really?"  

So my conclusions are a)  The big thing for me is I think there are a lot of expensive over-hyped cleaning substances (especially), methods and tools that in some cases may even do more damage than not cleaning a barrel (really we do not know), carbon fouling excepted.   The big thing for me is scientifically few if any? of these products, tools or methods  have been proven by repeatable and published experiment to do what they claim. 

b) copper removal, I strongly suspect the barrel works best coated in a thin layer of copper, this is hinted at in some advanced tribology papers by academics I have read plus the odd comment here and there I have come across in technical papers. Hence blindly scrubing the barrel clean (especially of copper) seems to make no sense to me at present.   I mean consider that some TR/palma and FTR shooters tell me that on a clean barrel the first shot is typically 1/4 to 1/2 MOA low so why? (and yet they blindly accept this effect). That tells me that something is happening with the first shot or two shots to reduce friction in the barrel as the subsequent velocities are higher because the MOA drop "recovers".  The only two things that I can see are carbon fouling and copper "fouling".   The barrels are very heavy so heat isnt likely.

On top of this I know some of the older shooters quietly clean their barrels with a carbon only cleaning regime, some use carbon only cleaners and lube with car engine upper cylinder oil, (wow designed to remove carbon  in a high temperature environment no less) , or even Kerosene / diesel.   The first is something like 1/2 or 1/3rd the cost of a gun oil and the last more like a 1/5th ~ 1/10th.  So I just have to wonder  just what is going on, snake oil salesmen ripping ppl off? or genuine products offering a significant advantage?  if so show me the evidence.  

So if people out there can point me at some URLs testing and verifying these expensive gun cleaning and lubing products really do work, please post. Otherwise I am off to repco to get some more upper cylinder engine oil....

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## Turehu

Steven totally agree. Copper is good thats why rounds have copper coating.With cleaning all I have ever done is poured  a quart of boiling water through the barrel followed by a fibre brush and 4x4 patch'es until clean than a light oil with sewing machine oil. Sewing machine oil does not stink or dry and lacquer like ordinary oils . Never had problems with rust or a dropped zero on first shot.

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## veitnamcam

The first clean shot being low is generally accepted to be the result of lower friction of a clean lubed barrel lowering pressure and subsequently velocity.

Also there is "cleaned" and "clean"

Simply passing a wet patch with something like CLP threw till clean will only remove loose carbon and is what I do most of the time.
This shouldn't greatly affect first shot accuracy.

I protect my bore every time my rifle comes home fired or not.

Recently I cleaned it till it was actually clean over a few nights as my load had started to show slight pressure signs after around 300rounds of only light cleaning to protect the bore.
Once actually clean pressure signs disappeared again

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## steven

By clean I mean to the extent that some ppl will keep cleaning until the copper is removed.  Otherwise for an excessively cleaned, lubed barrel that sounds strange to me and just cause some ppl generally accept it doenst make it correct. I mean lots of ppl believe in God despite there being absolutely no evidence of his existence, that is faith and not science.  Like I said I'd like to see some evidence via repeatable scientific experiment yet strangely I see none.  So the relationship of clean to lower pressure by itself, well I see no logical link. There is however some academic discussion that at extreme velocities and low loads the copper turns liquid greatly reducing friction and hence the velocity is higher.  For the first shot of a too clean barrel there is no copper film for this effect to occur, hence the fractional MOA drop.

In terms of "cleaned" sure. Carbon would seem to be a clear fouling issue after so many rounds, so cleaning off the carbon and hence the restoration of accuracy can be demonstrated I have no particular issue with that.   "300 rounds" and then we see we have a not clean[ed] enough of carbon bore, maybe.  

I guess Im not happy that I am basing actions on solid ground but guess work that may not be correct, bad idea IMHO.

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## stumpy

so , when I clean my handguns .... I have to use all sorts of bore brushes etc... because I cast my own projectiles , I get lead fouling that none of u would believe , ..... I use everything I can find , I made some "eds red" and use that hoppes9 , and it takes a long time to get it free of lead , I have used frog lube on the inside of my barrels because I saw it on the interweb , ... seems to make the lead less inclined to really stick .... I shoot a minimum 200 lead cast bullets a session on Saturdays....so I need lots of different brews to get rid of lead .......
cheers

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## veitnamcam

The logical link is choking of the barrel by fouling increases friction and hence pressure and so velocity.

For the same load reducing resistance down the barrel (mainly the throat) will lower pressure and velocity, there is millions of pages of info on this, its simple physics. :Have A Nice Day: 

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## Turehu

We were always taught to remove oil from a barrel before it being fired.The reason given was that oil would vapourize and create rings in the bore. I have only  once seen this sort of damage. It was in a 243 but I suspect the rings were caused by water rather than oil. Running a pullthru before a hunt is one those habits that are formed in the early years with possibly no foundation in fact.

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## veitnamcam

Not vaporise but build up in front of the bullet eventually hydraulicly forcing the barrel out around the bullet and water/oil layer.

Most lubricants perform best when there is nary a trace of them Ie wet patch then a couple of dry.

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## Turehu

Like they say every legend is based on a grain of truth.

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## steven

small animal/vet syringes to get the solvent out....  I have huge quantities.....had to inject pet rabbit for months.

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## 2gnscib

Not a big overcleaner. (Dont get out enough dammit!)

Best oil/cleaner is FrogLube | The World's Only Complete Bio Based 'Green' Weapons Care system, Solvent and CLP USDA Approved  is simply the bees knees. Amazing stuff and smells amazing too!  :Have A Nice Day:

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## veitnamcam

I am yet to try it but it is rated highly as a lube/corrosion inhibiter but I haven't read any reports on its ability as a barrel cleaner.

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## Banana

> Not a big overcleaner. (Dont get out enough dammit!)
> 
> Best oil/cleaner is FrogLube | The World's Only Complete Bio Based 'Green' Weapons Care system, Solvent and CLP USDA Approved  is simply the bees knees. Amazing stuff and smells amazing too!


and you can eat it.

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## stumpy

I use frog lube a lot , I heat my barrles up with a heat gun and saturate a patch with frog lube , run it through and it gets microscopically embedded into the metal , once dry (overnight ) I run a nylon brush and dry patch thru , ... as I said above it ssems to make the lead less inclined to stick to the barrel , I also use it all over the outside of most of the metal parts .... and as banana said you can eat it ...... I have licked it

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## Turehu

> and you can eat it.


 Hmm.. Olive oil comes from olives and frog oil comes from???

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## Turehu

Jojoba

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## grunzter

Out of interest, how often does everone remove their actions & barrels from their stocks for cleaning the non accessible areas, for oiling etc to avoid potental rust...

Where I have free floating barrels I can get an oily rag around them, but in the case of my CZ which is hard into its stock it is not possible.
The same goes with AR-15's, does not seem to be an issue with the parkerized finsih barrels, but my NEA needs an occasional wipe down, hence rail needs to be removed for a barrel wipe down with an oily rag...

Just want to know what others do out there...
Thanks Grant

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## Shamus

> Out of interest, how often does everone remove their actions & barrels from their stocks for cleaning the non accessible areas, for oiling etc to avoid potental rust...
> 
> Where I have free floating barrels I can get an oily rag around them, but in the case of my CZ which is hard into its stock it is not possible.
> The same goes with AR-15's, does not seem to be an issue with the parkerized finsih barrels, but my NEA needs an occasional wipe down, hence rail needs to be removed for a barrel wipe down with an oily rag...
> 
> Just want to know what others do out there...
> Thanks Grant


Not that often, only if they have been out in the rain etc

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## Banana

I just spray CRC through the handguard.

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