# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  260 Rem, AI & Imp

## HOWA308

Not wanting to hijack Tikka's thread and as it seems there is some interest in this caliber,I thought the rest of the 260 shooters out there may want to share their Rifles and load development to date.

To get things started here's my Tikka Super light 260 Remmington.
Shoots 140 VLDs 



In standard form doing initial load development 







Wearing a Boyds thumbhole stock & Hinterland bolt on Brake to help spot shots.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Remington Model 7 260 Rem, bedded, 2lb trigger, gunworks suppressor, fluted bolt, currently sporting my Bushnell 6500 Elite tactical 6-24x50, but normally has a Zeiss 3-9x42 on it.



When I first got it I threw a weaver v9 on it I had lying around and went and shot a group with the factory ammunition it came with and it did this, so I knew she was going to be a shooter...



Then I got into handloading, and everyone told me the Model 7 twist (1 in 9) wouldn't stabilise anything over 130gr, so being a stubborn bastard I started playing with 139gr Lapua Scenar's, and now it does this....



Great little caliber!

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## Danny

Great shooter but especially in the Mod 7.  A great combo. That's my next.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

What powder are you using with the VLD's @HOWA308 ? Have a box of them sitting here I was going to try after the Scenar's failed me, but they never did!
Also got 120 Amax tearing ragged holes.

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## gimp

straight .260, 19.4 inch, shitloads of 2209 & a 140 @ 2700fps flat

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## HOWA308

> What powder are you using with the VLD's @HOWA308 ? Have a box of them sitting here I was going to try after the Scenar's failed me, but they never did!
> Also got 120 Amax tearing ragged holes.


Ryan I started out with 2209 and got mid 2700 before pressure.... having some Superformance from my 300wsm I decided to try that knowing it was a slower burner but progressive. Have plenty of room as projectile is seated out at 2.950 COL, giving me about 20thou jump as these projectiles seem to like a close jump. Plus the BC is hard to go past!
Got some load data from the U.S. sites and got close to 2900 but backed of .5gn to allow for hotter weather. Have settled with a respectable 2830 F/S and 140 VLDs.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Ryan I started out with 2209 and got mid 2700 before pressure.... having some Superformance from my 300wsm I decided to try that knowing it was a slower burner but progressive. Have plenty of room as projectile is seated out at 2.950 COL, giving me about 20thou jump as these projectiles seem to like a close jump. Plus the BC is hard to go past!
> Got some load data from the U.S. sites and got close to 2900 but backed of .5gn to allow for hotter weather. Have settled with a respectable 2830 F/S and 140 VLDs.


That's getting along pretty swiftly for 140s in the 260, nice!

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## Tahr

> Ryan I started out with 2209 and got mid 2700 before pressure.... having some Superformance from my 300wsm I decided to try that knowing it was a slower burner but progressive. Have plenty of room as projectile is seated out at 2.950 COL, giving me about 20thou jump as these projectiles seem to like a close jump. Plus the BC is hard to go past!
> Got some load data from the U.S. sites and got close to 2900 but backed of .5gn to allow for hotter weather. Have settled with a respectable 2830 F/S and 140 VLDs.


Goodness. The extremes you .260 guys go to, to try and get 6.5x55 performance.  :Grin:

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## HOWA308

Ha ha, sorry didn't mean to exclude our Euro 6.5 Brothers. Post them if you got some.....

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## Tahr

> Ha ha, sorry didn't mean to exclude our Euro 6.5 Brothers. Post them if you got some.....


No, no. You imperial guys just go right ahead. I will watch from a safe distance.  :Have A Nice Day: 

I reluctantly have to admit though that there is some damned nice shooting and velocity results here.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> No, no. You imperial guys just go right ahead. I will watch from a safe distance.


What? Not afraid are ya?  :Thumbsup:

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## Mathias

@HOWA308 so you are single feeding these 140 VLDS at the moment or have you gone for the long action mag & bolt stop?

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## HOWA308

> @HOWA308 so you are single feeding these 140 VLDS at the moment or have you gone for the long action mag & bolt stop?


Mag feeding the VLDs, got a long 5 shot 270 mag off EBay, then modified bolt stop myself. Easy as!

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## Mathias

Yep got the very same gun myself and the throat is way to long as standard for the mag. I've got a fix too but it's not a long mag....

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## HOWA308

> Yep got the very same gun myself and the throat is way to long as standard for the mag. I've got a fix too but it's not a long mag....


Nice we rifle and shoots well for the price. What you shooting, any photos?

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## Ryan_Songhurst

This actually got me thinking about having a play with the VLD's, just had a measure up and I can fit 2.950 Col in my mag, and the VLD's are touching the lands at 2.940
Might load some up tonight starting with 43gr 2209 and seat them at 2.920 to give that 20 thou jump. Stay tuned!

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Yep got the very same gun myself and the throat is way to long as standard for the mag. I've got a fix too but it's not a long mag....


Set barrel back and re-chamber?

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## puku

Wouldn't you be better off to go the longer oal and get more powder in. 
Rather than setting back

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## HOWA308

Ryan I also played with 2209 and 140 VLDs. Bearing in mind every Rifle and chamber is different, I got to 45gn 2209 before pressure signs and around 2750 F/S. Then I started to play with Superformance powder......

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## Mathias

> Set barrel back and re-chamber?


No, I've got a Shilen select match barrel and a short throat 30 degree improved reamer which I had before I bought the T3. I thought about using the original barrel but the reports from gunsmiths tell me that the barrel steel on these T3's do not ream well if just trying to do an improved chamber. According to the info on the reamer the 140 VLD's hit the lands at 2.873". I had a Sako M591 that I was originally going to use but elected to buy a T3 as a donor.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Ryan I also played with 2209 and 140 VLDs. Bearing in mind every Rifle and chamber is different, I got to 45gn 2209 before pressure signs and around 2750 F/S. Then I started to play with Superformance powder......


Which superformance powder is it you are using? I was told there's a few different ones, is that correct? I also heard that one of them is an excellent powder for magnum chamberings so might be worth picking some up to have a play around with my 7mmRM

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## HOWA308

> Which superformance powder is it you are using? I was told there's a few different ones, is that correct? I also heard that one of them is an excellent powder for magnum chamberings so might be worth picking some up to have a play around with my 7mmRM


This is the Superformance powder I use for my 300wsm and also 260. I know the factory loaded Superformance ammunition has different blends for different calibers, but they have only released this powder as far as I'm aware?

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## 6x47

> Remington Model 7 260 Rem, bedded, ... being a stubborn bastard I started playing with 139gr Lapua Scenar's, and now it does this....
> ...


Yep, they're a very good projectile but pretty useless on game. Like their 123gr smaller brother, they pencil through stuff most of the time

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Yep, they're a very good projectile but pretty useless on game. Like their 123gr smaller brother, they pencil through stuff most of the time


I have a couple of chamois heads in my garage and some venison in my freezer that begs to differ with that statement.... Shot placement is everything.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

At 260 speeds I havnt had a problem using the Scenar's, I'm pushing them at 2780 at the muzzle and was hesitant about them pencilling so I aim to break the front shoulders, I have a recovered projectile somewhere, I will try dig it out and post a photo.

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## 6x47

What I'm alluding to is the pencil-through if you -don't- hit bone.
Sounds like you hit bone on the way in on all three occasions.

I've hit goats at less than 100yds with the 123s (which were still doing over 2800) and the results were worse on average than any basic softpoint, and prob not even as good as the .223. Too many slow-to-expire for my liking, def wouldn't use them again even though they shoot single hole groups.

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## Ryan_Songhurst



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## Ryan_Songhurst

> This is the Superformance powder I use for my 300wsm and also 260. I know the factory loaded Superformance ammunition has different blends for different calibers, but they have only released this powder as far as I'm aware?
> 
> Attachment 43572


Thanks,  now you mention it I think thats where my confusion came from, factory loads are different powders. Might have to have a play with it. I also have some V N560 powder here that is aparently good in the 260 but havnt tried it yet

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> What I'm alluding to is the pencil-through if you -don't- hit bone.
> Sounds like you hit bone on the way in on all three occasions.
> 
> I've hit goats at less than 100yds with the 123s (which were still doing over 2800) and the results were worse on average than any basic softpoint, and prob not even as good as the .223. Too many slow-to-expire for my liking, def wouldn't use them again even though they shoot single hole groups.


Yes my initial hesitation came from a test that was published on the internet (maybe by Nathan Foster? I cant remember...) where the scenars were used on goats and were not hitting enough bone and providing less than satisfactory performance.

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## deye223

this a group out of my 260 and i must apologize for the quality it always seems to go to shit every time i put a vid through movie maker  :Pissed Off: 

range is 1026 yards and if you squint you might see the pills land at 12 o'clock on the square target on the left  .

it is vertically stung but not bad .

the group at 3 o'clock is just on 4.5" for 4 shots

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> this a group out of my 260 and i must apologize for the quality it always seems to go to shit every time i put a vid through movie maker 
> 
> range is 1026 yards and if you squint you might see the pills land at 12 o'clock on the square target on the left  .
> 
> it is vertically stung but not bad .
> 
> the group at 3 o'clock is just on 4.5" for 4 shots 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice shooting!

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## Ryan_Songhurst

PS: what rig are you running?

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## deye223

thanks . and not as good a some on here but it's my pride and joy 

 
rem 700 long action
chamber 260R
barrel MADDCO 26" SENDERO profile 26 1/4" 1:8 twist threaded muzzle
B&C M40 stock
over size recoil lug
JEWELL trigger
cerakoated
SEEKINS 20MOA rail and rings
NIGHTFORCE NXS 5.5-22X56 MOART

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## HOWA308

That's freakin awesome shooting mate! What loads you running?

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## Ryan_Songhurst

^^ Nice rig too!

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## deye223

thanks . got more vids of this but every time i put it through the movie maker it blows them up a bit and f%$ks the picture quality 

looks like i will have to just bite the wallet and get a pay for movie thingy .

the load is lap 260 case CCIBR2 primer 45g of 2209 and a 130 BURGER VLDH at 2952fps and it does the same thing with rem brass 


cheers D

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## HOWA308

It appears our Aussie mate, deye223 has inadvertently thrown down a 1000 yard challenge!

Who's keen........ I will have a crack in the next week or so and post some pix.



Here's my gong @ 600m.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

I could give it a crack, I have a 640 yard gong and can stretch it out to 1000 by moving shooting position, trouble is the position at 1000 yds is currently in the middle of a paddock of maize....

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## deye223

narh mate i'm too old for this Aussie Kiwi rivalry , i'm just a 50yo bloke that took up long range fun 18 months ago

by the way the group at 3'clock in the pic is 4 shots and smaller i didn't put it because i forgot to push the button 

on the camera 



just to give you a idea on size this is a leatherman wave ............ i was just thinking we should start a thread on groups 

at a grand plus for small calibers

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## Tikka7mm08

Loving the quality shooting. Inspired to get my 260AI up and running@

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## HOWA308

No rivalry mate, just inspiring us to get out and shoot! More of a personal challenge to knock off the 1000 yard target.

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## Gillie

Shot back in January this year. That is a 10" target and was planed about 980m if my memory serves. I shot this group as a test for the load development on the brand new barrel (hadn't even been blued as you can see in the photo. 

Rifle is my .260Rem Sako 85 varmint. Group was shot with 130gr berger VLD-H, lapua palma cases, AR2209 powder, and federal small rifle match primers.

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## Tikka7mm08

Large rifle primers?

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Large rifle primers?


Palma brass uses small rifle

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## deye223

small

EDIT shit i'm a slow typer haha

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## HOWA308

Nice shooting Gillie. Did you settle on the 130gn VLDs, what did they chrony at?

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## Tikka7mm08

Thanks Ryan....haven't heard of that for 260....much difference accuracy wise?

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Im not sure, I have some Palma 308 brass I bought and was gonna size to use in my 260 but havnt got round to it yet

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## Tikka7mm08

I have read small primer is meant to have an advantage, but not sure why or if even how much.

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## deye223

> I have read small primer is meant to have an advantage, but not sure why or if even how much.


mainly so you can run higher pressures as there is more brass in the head but not good for the throat if you you run hot

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## Tikka7mm08

I'd make that trade off.

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## Gillie

> Nice shooting Gillie. Did you settle on the 130gn VLDs, what did they chrony at?


Yep still using them. I think they are a pretty efficient projectile for the 260Rem if you are feeding from a standard small action magazine. I would prefer the 140gr hybrids for their BC but they simply take up too much magazine and case capacity. Drop data puts them at 3020fps, Magnetospeed puts them at 2980fps, ES of 7fps over 5 rounds. 




> Thanks Ryan....haven't heard of that for 260....much difference accuracy wise?


I wouldn't say there is bugger all accuracy difference going to palma brass - not any more than you would gain with neck turning anyway. What you gain with palma brass is a stronger case design that you can push to slightly higher pressures than standard 260 cases. For me that doesn't amount to much as my load i about a grain under where i started to notice the increased recoil and thought i had better stop increasing the powder load - didn't actually see pressure signs on the cases. But i have about 300 palma cases in total for this 260 and have put about 3500 rounds through them (over two barrels) and have thrown out less than 5 for either split necks or loose primer pockets. Some of the original 100 lot of cases i got have done easily more than 15 reloads now.

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## Gillie

> mainly so you can run higher pressures as there is more brass in the head but not good for the throat if you you run hot


more than 2500 rounds through the original barrel. Accuracy had dropped from the 0.5MOA back to about a MOA with the more and more occasional flier. Yep, a compromise i was happy to make. Given i pretty much only compete in field matches the drop in accuracy was barely noticed.  :Grin:

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Think that now the temperature has finally dropped under 30 degrees it's time for a night on the bench, gonna cook up some VLD's for the 260, and need to load up some more LRABs for 270.

I need a bigger bench!

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## Tikka7mm08

I would be keen to try some Palma cases in 260AI.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> I would be keen to try some Palma cases in 260AI.


I can probably give you some of the 308 ones I have, Im not too sure on the ins and outs of sizing, then fireforming, plus possibly neckturning, maybe easier with straight 260 brass

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## Tikka7mm08

Yeah I have 'plain' 260 Lapua brass I FF...I feel the dark side pull of neck turning though!

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## Kiwi Greg

You will get more velocity from standard brass over Palmer brass both loads being equal.

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## deye223

> more than 2500 rounds through the original barrel. Accuracy had dropped from the 0.5MOA back to about a MOA with the more and more occasional flier. Yep, a compromise i was happy to make. Given i pretty much only compete in field matches the drop in accuracy was barely noticed.


i have only put 8oo through mine and have lost 0.047" of the lands so not real impressed with MADDCO barrels ATM but it is accurate but for how much longer ?

shot this on friday when i got me new HD vid cam ... looks better full screen

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## HOWA308

> i have only put 8oo through mine and have lost 0.047" of the lands so not real impressed with MADDCO barrels ATM but it is accurate but for how much longer ?
> 
> shot this on friday when i got me new HD vid cam ... looks better full screen



Some nice shooting there fella.......and a very brave cow!

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Got my first load of 140 VLDs ready to go, will test them tommorow and hopefully post a video with results. Have decided to use Vit N560 powder, starting at 44grs

 :Have A Nice Day:

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## R93

> Yep still using them. I think they are a pretty efficient projectile for the 260Rem if you are feeding from a standard small action magazine. I would prefer the 140gr hybrids for their BC but they simply take up too much magazine and case capacity. Drop data puts them at 3020fps, Magnetospeed puts them at 2980fps, ES of 7fps over 5 rounds. 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say there is bugger all accuracy difference going to palma brass - not any more than you would gain with neck turning anyway. What you gain with palma brass is a stronger case design that you can push to slightly higher pressures than standard 260 cases. For me that doesn't amount to much as my load i about a grain under where i started to notice the increased recoil and thought i had better stop increasing the powder load - didn't actually see pressure signs on the cases. But i have about 300 palma cases in total for this 260 and have put about 3500 rounds through them (over two barrels) and have thrown out less than 5 for either split necks or loose primer pockets. Some of the original 100 lot of cases i got have done easily more than 15 reloads now.




You have a standard .260 rem doing nearly 3000fps with 130 gr bullets?

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## deye223

> You have a standard .260 rem doing nearly 3000fps with 130 gr bullets?


he probably does mine are doing 2930 and their not hot

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## Gillie

> You have a standard .260 rem doing nearly 3000fps with 130 gr bullets?


Yes, 26" barrel, minimum SAMMI specification 260 Remington chamber except for the neck which was slightly tighter.

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## Gillie

> i have only put 8oo through mine and have lost 0.047" of the lands so not real impressed with MADDCO barrels ATM but it is accurate but for how much longer ?


See I never bothered to measure mine. The projectiles were always loaded to suit the magazine length - once I determined that seated to that depth they didn't contact the lands. I expect they had quite a jump towards the end of the barrel life.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Blowing a gale here this morning, no load testing today  :Sad:

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## 300_BLK

> Shot back in January this year. That is a 10" target and was planed about 980m if my memory serves. I shot this group as a test for the load development on the brand new barrel (hadn't even been blued as you can see in the photo. 
> 
> Rifle is my .260Rem Sako 85 varmint. Group was shot with 130gr berger VLD-H, lapua palma cases, AR2209 powder, and federal small rifle match primers.


Shoot any animals with that thing @Gillie or just steel?

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## Gillie

Yeah have shot a few - deer , goats, rabbits, magpies, hares, etc. It has been relegated to a middle distance field target rifle now though - it shoots awesome but is a bit on the heavy side for hunting. I have a Sako 85 hunter in .243 that is first pick when I am hunting now.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Yeah have shot a few - deer , goats, rabbits, magpies, hares, etc. It has been relegated to a middle distance field target rifle now though - it shoots awesome but is a bit on the heavy side for hunting. I have a Sako 85 hunter in .243 that is first pick when I am hunting now.


Magpies and rabbits must be impressive

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## Gillie

Not too much really, in my experience the 130gr bergers need a bit of body depth to really open up and perform i.e. I think they do a couple of inch's of penetration before they come to pieces. Freaking impressive performance on fallow and red deer, and on half grown to full grown goats - small goats and small game though they tend to pencil through a bit and then open up. The 130gr bergers are not a varmint bullet in my opinion. 

40gr V-Maxs at 3200fps out of my 22K-hornet are much more impressive on small game.

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## HOWA308

Got out this morning and had a crack at the 1000 yard shooting. Conditions were good with very little wind and about 20'c warm and sunny. First shots were high with 1 from 3 hitting the top of the target (20 x 20 inch steel plate) I dialled down 1/2 MoA on the second attempt with 3 solid hits. Took a total of 32 MoA at 995m or 1088 yards to impact target. Had about a 6 inch spread of shoots in the 3 round group.

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## Danny

> he probably does mine are doing 2930 and their not hot


What powder? To kick an old thread back in the guts. Obviously a 26" vs my 20 but hit pressure early using 2209. Yet to chrono.
130 sirroco  - being closer to lands increased the pressure much more quickly?

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## HOWA308

I know others have tried different powders. I started with 2209 like you had pressure signs also, the tried Superformance powder which is a slower blend of powder I used in my 300wsm which gave good results. Worth a try?

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## deye223

2209 and no because i do all my load development starting in to the lands 

as if it don't work out there is only one way go and thats back off , so far

my 223 is the only rifle that don't like it touching .  :Wink:

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## 25/08IMP

> What powder? To kick an old thread back in the guts. Obviously a 26" vs my 20 but hit pressure early using 2209. Yet to chrono.
> 130 sirroco  - being closer to lands increased the pressure much more quickly?


Try win 760 as l had the same problem with 2209 760 was much better.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> Try win 760 as l had the same problem with 2209 760 was much better.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


I found the opposite, I was developing a load for the 139 Scenar and got pressure real early using w760, could only get them going about 2670 before getting sticky bolt and ejector marks. How do you find the temp stability of 760? Have read it can be quite variable between extremes of temp?

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## Danny

R19 for me in 260. Very nice.

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## 25/08IMP

Still early days but got higher speed than 2209 before pressure 
Have just got some super primacy to try.


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## 25/08IMP

> Ryan I started out with 2209 and got mid 2700 before pressure.... having some Superformance from my 300wsm I decided to try that knowing it was a slower burner but progressive. Have plenty of room as projectile is seated out at 2.950 COL, giving me about 20thou jump as these projectiles seem to like a close jump. Plus the BC is hard to go past!
> Got some load data from the U.S. sites and got close to 2900 but backed of .5gn to allow for hotter weather. Have settled with a respectable 2830 F/S and 140 VLDs.


Can you tell me what load you are using of super proformance as I have some to try in my 260AI with 130 Swifts 

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## R93

Start around 45grns and you will be close with superperformance I reckon.

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## 25/08IMP

Cool thanks ill start there and see how it goes.

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## HOWA308

Sorry for late reply. With the 140VLD-H and with a Superformance powder load of 46.9gn I'm getting about 2830F/S.

Obviously this load is for my rifle and starting several grains less for your tests would be sensible.

Good Luck

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## 25/08IMP

> Sorry for late reply. With the 140VLD-H and with a Superformance powder load of 46.9gn I'm getting about 2830F/S.
> 
> Obviously this load is for my rifle and starting several grains less for your tests would be sensible.
> 
> Good Luck


Thanks for that I tried it the other day and 47grn with the 130 was good at 2930fps but mine is an AI got some more loads to try yet but looking good.

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## camo wsm

What are peoples optimal oal length in this cal? Eg how does it go
In a rem short action with the 140's seated out?

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## 7mmsaum

> What are peoples optimal oal length in this cal? Eg how does it go
> In a rem short action with the 140's seated out?


Nearly as good as a 7mm08 thats pushing 140 grainers at 2930fps  :Have A Nice Day:

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## camo wsm

> Nearly as good as a 7mm08 thats pushing 140 grainers at 2930fps


Haha I'm still struggling with my decision to make

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## Proudkiwi

And further to that, in a 20inch tube what is a realistic MV between the .260 and AI version using 143gr (yeah, yeah I know) projectiles.

Is the increase substantial?

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## camo wsm

> And further to that, in a 20inch tube what is a realistic MV between the .260 and AI version using 143gr (yeah, yeah I know) projectiles.
> 
> Is the increase substantial?


I would like to know this also  :Thumbsup:

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## Danny

I'd say no even though I haven't had a 260 Ai, in a 20" mine's pushing 2700 with the 140 without pressures. Anaemic I know but I'm a barrel life and accuracy guy so I'm never going to be the person who's  chasing 3000 in a 6.5 with 140's.

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## Proudkiwi

> Nearly as good as a 7mm08 thats pushing 140 grainers at 2930fps


What's the barrel length Andrew?

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## Danny

> I'd say no even though I haven't had a 260 Ai, in a 20" mine's pushing 2700 with the 140 without pressures. Anaemic I know but I'm a barrel life and accuracy guy so I'm never going to be the person who's  chasing 3000 in a 6.5 with 140's.


If I was that guy the 260 wouldn't be my best bet. I'd go 284 and use 140's all day long.

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## 7mmsaum

> What's the barrel length Andrew?


Anything over 21 inches with a long lead/throat

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## 25/08IMP

My .260AI has a 22" barrel and I would say 2800 will be max with 140's,  I have some 143grn on order to try but if you want higher speed then I would go for something else.

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## Danny

Yep.

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## outdoorlad

I can get just under 2800fps with my 6.5x47L (140amax/Re17/24")

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## Tikka7mm08

142gn LRAB 3007fps 24" 260AI

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## R93

My barrel at 24" can produce some speed but It has a sweet spot running it slower so I don't see the point fussing around with it when it is just a bit extra wound on the turret if needed.
Don't think I have a fast barrel especially when there are standard .260s out there running the same speeds I get or faster.
I like the caliber but would have been just as happy with a standard 260 or even better a 6.5-06


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## camo wsm

> My barrel at 24" can produce some speed but It has a sweet spot running it slower so I don't see the point fussing around with it when it is just a bit extra wound on the turret if needed.
> Don't think I have a fast barrel especially when there are standard .260s out there running the same speeds I get or faster.
> I like the caliber but would have been just as happy with a standard 260 or even better a 6.5-06
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


What speeds are you getting out of yours comfortably?

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## Sidney

If you want 3000 at low pressures with a 140 out of a 6.5, you only got one option... have a look at a 6.5 SAUM....  (6.5 GAP 4S) with ADI2217 (H1000)....

Everything else runs smaller capacity and higher pressures, which appears to be more destructive than capacity alone...  the penalty of course is around 60 grains of powder in that larger case...

Its funny but we may yet see a move back to larger capacity and slower powders to duplicate what we can achieve with smaller capacity and higher pressures for less fuss and bother and a longer lasting barrel... not to mention a larger safety margin...

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## Shearer

> If you want 3000 at low pressures with a 140 out of a 6.5, you only got one option... have a look at a 6.5 SAUM....  (6.5 GAP 4S) with ADI2217 (H1000)....
> 
> Everything else runs smaller capacity and higher pressures, which appears to be more destructive than capacity alone...  the penalty of course is around 60 grains of powder in that larger case...
> 
> Its funny but we may yet see a move back to larger capacity and slower powders to duplicate what we can achieve with smaller capacity and higher pressures for less fuss and bother and a longer lasting barrel... not to mention a larger safety margin...


You mean like a 308?

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## Danny

> You mean like a 308?


That's a whole nother ball game, everyone needs one of them regardless...

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## R93

> What speeds are you getting out of yours comfortably?


2950 with both 130 and 140 gr projectiles.

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## R93

My 6.5-06 did 3100 easily with 140 gr bullets.


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## Sidney

> You mean like a 308?


Sorry wasn't meaning calibre I was meaning case capacity, which would apply through the calibre choices...

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## Shearer

> Sorry wasn't meaning calibre I was meaning case capacity, which would apply through the calibre choices...


Oooohhh. You mean like the 270????

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## Danny

Don't think I've ever had an Accubond load shoot overly well. Good to see this trend continuing. Lol.

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## HOWA308

> Attachment 45867
> 
> Don't think I've ever had an Accubond load shoot overly well. Good to see this trend continuing. Lol.



I agree the accubond wasn't great for me either, VLD's shoot better.
Keen to try the new Hornady ELD's when they eventually arrive.........

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## Danny

Same.

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## Sidney

> Oooohhh. You mean like the 270????


Nah... still wide for length not a column of powder; and without lousy projectile options..... :Grin:

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## Gillie

The 130gr Nosler AB shot superbly well in my .260. I thought they were a little hard and didn't leave too much of a wound track on deer but everything I shot with them died.

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## Danny

That will what I'll try this week. 130's AB. 
Waiting for the new amax really.

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## 25/08IMP

> The 130gr Nosler AB shot superbly well in my .260. I thought they were a little hard and didn't leave too much of a wound track on deer but everything I shot with them died.


They shot well in mine as well so did the Hornady 129SP

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## Danny

Any updates with newer powders and relative performance?
I have some Superformance, R19 and 2206h. 


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## Gibo

> Any updates with newer powders and relative performance?
> I have some Superformance, R19 and 2206h. 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I will gets to testing this RL16 one day  :ORLY:

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## Mathias

> I will gets to testing this RL16 one day


FFS Gibo, it's been that long I'd forgotten.. :Grin:   Bit like me and the RL26 I got about 2 months or so ago to try in my 260, one day.

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## Gibo

> FFS Gibo, it's been that long I'd forgotten..  Bit like me and the RL26 I got about 2 months or so ago to try in my 260, one day.


School holidays aye! And warming up to summer in general! seems everyone wants to do all things everyday  :Grin:

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## Moa Hunter

I am not a 260, 55 or creedmore owner but they do interest me. I keep wondering when I read about load development for these cals if any of you have tried a 6.5 x 57 AI ? Just that wee bit more capacity without getting up to a 284 case. Although it does need a med length action. Would probably send you 140's out at 3000fps

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## blair993

still using 2209 in my t3x 260 just got some norma brass to test out. have been using fc 7mm08. 43.5 ar2209 was 12mm 43.7 was 16mm havn't run it over a crony yet.

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## Danny

> still using 2209 in my t3x 260 just got some norma brass to test out. have been using fc 7mm08. 43.5 ar2209 was 12mm 43.7 was 16mm havn't run it over a crony yet. Attachment 96543


Cheers, any group size like that is worth it. 


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## nor-west

> I am not a 260, 55 or creedmore owner but they do interest me. I keep wondering when I read about load development for these cals if any of you have tried a 6.5 x 57 AI ? Just that wee bit more capacity without getting up to a 284 case. Although it does need a med length action. Would probably send you 140's out at 3000fps


Yep had one on a Turkish Mauser build, thumbhole stock and 28 inch barrel got it shortened to 24" then had to fire form cases a lot of fluffing around for no real world gain. @Tahr's 6.5x55 with 20" barrel was quicker. I was getting around 3000fps with 130 grain projectiles. A 6.5x284 would be a better build idea.

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## Tikka7mm08

6.5 Saum.

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## Tahr

> Yep had one on a Turkish Mauser build, thumbhole stock and 28 inch barrel got it shortened to 24" then had to fire form cases a lot of fluffing around for no real world gain. @Tahr's 6.5x55 with 20" barrel was quicker. I was getting around 3000fps with 130 grain projectiles. A 6.5x284 would be a better build idea.


My barrel is 21" and velocity is 2830fps with 140 Amax. N560 powder.

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## Moa Hunter

> 6.5 Saum.


So I Googled the 6.5 Saum, looks like all things to all people. Albeit a bit tough on barrels. Very handy chambering indeed

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## Sidney

Do a bit more googling.... Look at the GAP 4S version and how they run them.  H1000 powder at around 53000psi which is 140 class bullets at around 3000+ fps and 130g at 3100-3200.  Barrel life 2500 plus for Practical Rifle accuracy...

Sure you can run them at high pressure and you can toast them at 500 rounds, but that may be the wrong approach.  I had a 6.5x55AI which didn't complain up to 3200fps with 140s and I ran it at 3050, but pretty sure it wouldn't last more than the 1200 or so rounds that seem typical for the likes of a 6.5x284 running hot like that....

The SAUM offers better performance than that, at less penalty..

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## Moa Hunter

So to paraphrase what you are saying Sydney; instead of running your 308 as hot as you can, instead buy a 3006 and run a standard load ?

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## Sidney

Yes but no its still a fat and wide case, unlike your 30-06 so a little different.. but in broad terms it is a reduced pressure load in a larger capacity case.  H1000 is a slower powder, its ignition pattern is more progressive that is apparently part of the equation as well.

Pressure and heat are apparently what burns out barrels, that and high fire rates.  Getting velocity without excess pressure and heat is differcult to achieve in small cases.

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## Kudu

I like the idea and the sound of the 6.5 PRC, especially since you can buy factory ammo for it from Hornady. However the only factory rifle I have heard that is arriving chambered in it is the Sauer. Now these are wonderful rifles, just a bit heavy for me.

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## blair993

to those that ai'd the 260 would you do it again? I like my 260 but have to trim every reload at the moment and its getting old. Just started some norma reloads and they havn't stretched at all yet so that may help. did you run them the same COAL?

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## Tikka7mm08

> to those that ai'd the 260 would you do it again? I like my 260 but have to trim every reload at the moment and its getting old. Just started some norma reloads and they havn't stretched at all yet so that may help. did you run them the same COAL?


Don't need to trim my 260AI brass...doesnt really grow. I kinda did do it again by then getting a 280AI. Much easier with factory AI brass.

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## Mathias

> to those that ai'd the 260 would you do it again? I like my 260 but have to trim every reload at the moment and its getting old. Just started some norma reloads and they havn't stretched at all yet so that may help. did you run them the same COAL?


I didn't go Ackley 40deg, I went 30deg Whitley (short throat). I got the reamer cut and it's done two rifles so far. 260 Imp 30? 
I'm still pissing around and about to try different powder but my main load for the last 100+ has been RL17 and 143gr ELDX @2940fps. I'm in the process of fire forming my second hundred Lapua cases and got some slower RL26 to try. I've wrecked about 10 cases with too much pressure on the primer pockets but not stretched them yet.

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## Danny

Well I just did two trips to the range and Superformance is quite underwhelming accuracy wise. One decent group at low pressure then seeing pressure at 47.0 but 1.5 moa isnt good enough. 
R19 at a compressed load was the ok. None showing much in the way of speed either.

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## Mathias

> Well I just did two trips to the range and Superformance is quite underwhelming accuracy wise. One decent group at low pressure then seeing pressure at 47.0 but 1.5 moa isnt good enough. 
> R19 at a compressed load was the ok. None showing much in the way of speed either.


Found the same Danny. Superformance didn't do it for me either, got pressure before a decent velocity and accuracy was average.

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## R93

Have you tried win 760?
It goes good in mine and I have tried everything except RL16

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## Mathias

> Have you tried win 760?
> It goes good in mine and I have tried everything except RL16
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Yep winny 760 runs well in my boys 260 with 20" barrel. 

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## R93

Anyone tried RL16 with the improved 260?


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## ohearchai

Some might be aware that the US military recently picked the 6.5 creedmoor,  even though in tests the 260 clearly won out, the simple reason easr of manufacturing 6.5 creed ammo for the semi autos. Anyways back to the 260, been running one for about 7 or 8 years, current rifle is a badger m2013 benchmark barrel. Usually run lapua brass, ccibr2 h4350, running 44.5grains in a 27 inch barrel, 2925 velocity, when I run 140 berger hybrids around 3025. Barrel life on the last 5 or 6 barrels has on average been about 4000, less supressed, but I shot prs so shes run hard. About 2011 I ran a test with superperformance, to be honest, incredible speeds with 139 scenars but accuracy at best was 1/2 moa so I passed. I only wish at times Remington jad put as much effort into the 260 Remington as Hornady did with the creedmoor.

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## R93

> Some might be aware that the US military recently picked the 6.5 creedmoor,  even though in tests the 260 clearly won out, the simple reason easr of manufacturing 6.5 creed ammo for the semi autos. Anyways back to the 260, been running one for about 7 or 8 years, current rifle is a badger m2013 benchmark barrel. Usually run lapua brass, ccibr2 h4350, running 44.5grains in a 27 inch barrel, 2925 velocity, when I run 140 berger hybrids around 3025. Barrel life on the last 5 or 6 barrels has on average been about 4000, less supressed, but I shot prs so shes run hard. About 2011 I ran a test with superperformance, to be honest, incredible speeds with 139 scenars but accuracy at best was 1/2 moa so I passed. I only wish at times Remington jad put as much effort into the 260 Remington as Hornady did with the creedmoor.


3000fps with 140s in a standard 260?


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## winaa

> 3000fps with 140s in a standard 260?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


Ran the above load through Quickload with a 2.950" OAL
came back as 2913 FPS from a 27" barrel Max Pressure 65968 PSI, Saami spec is 60191 PSI
He must have a strong action and good brass

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## Jit

> Goodness. The extremes you .260 guys go to, to try and get 6.5x55 performance.


My 6.5x55 is happy with 147eldm @ 2810 on top of 2209. 

Can't go past .7 BC.

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## Kiwi Greg

> My 6.5x55 is happy with 147eldm @ 2810 on top of 2209. 
> 
> Can't go past .7 BC.


Yeah Litz reckons .617, .315 which is probably a little closer to the mark for the average BC

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## Jit

> Yeah Litz reckons .617, .315 which is probably a little closer to the mark for the average BC


That's a lot lower than advertised! 

Is that on the Berger website?

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## Kiwi Greg

> That's a lot lower than advertised! 
> 
> Is that on the Berger website?


Berger won't be advertising Hornady BCs  :Have A Nice Day: 

Sig 2400/Applied Ballistics/program

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## Danny

> Berger won't be advertising Hornady BCs 
> 
> Sig 2400/Applied Ballistics/program


I need to try some Bergers next KG, currently at 43.8 of R17 but still not happy with accuracy of the 143.


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## Gibo

130s @Danny?

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## Danny

> 130s @Danny?


143 eldx 


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## Gibo

> 143 eldx 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What bergers you want to try?

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## Danny

> What bergers you want to try?


Sorry- doh!
Anything mate, You have a couple I can buy?


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## Gibo

Yeah 130 bro. can have some. might not get them away for a few days but

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## Mathias

> I need to try some Berger’s next KG, currently at 43.8 of R17 but still not happy with accuracy of the 143.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Had any joy with the 260 lately @Danny?

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## Danny

> Had any joy with the 260 lately @Danny?


On the deer yep  
On targets sort of. Sitting with 143 and accuracy is not as good as it gets and have tried R19, 17 and Superformance. 129 Sierra are excellent and performing well. 
Have some new arrivals last week thats to @superdiver and will try them but if theyre no better than 143 Ill go Berger 130 or 140 as theyre always excellent accuracy wise in 6.5 calibers Ive found. 
Looking at a new stock soon also probably from @Camwsm.

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## Tikka7mm08

Bergers worked best for me in 260AI. But I found seating depth to make a big difference...same in my 280AI. Don't give up on a bullet until you have followed Bergers seating depth method.

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## johnd

I have done a bit of work developing loads in my std rem 260. I have settled on 120 Amax at 2990 Fps for hunting loads and 140 ELDM's for targets due to the less wind effect factor.... just guessing but the 140's are probably doing 2750 ish working backwards from Strelok.

The shock factor with the 120's has been great




Model 7 18 inch barrel 

  @Mathias and  @R93 when burning 760 have you had any ignition issues ? and are you running large or small primers?

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## Danny

> I have done a bit of work developing loads in my std rem 260. I have settled on 120 Amax at 2990 Fps for hunting loads and 140 ELDM's for targets due to the less wind effect factor.... just guessing but the 140's are probably doing 2750 ish working backwards from Strelok.
> 
> The shock factor with the 120's has been great
> 
> Attachment 99602
> 
> 
> Model 7 18 inch barrel 
> Attachment 99603


Very nice rifle in an excellent caliber. 
On reds? Ive only used 129 Sierra sp and 143 Eldx on reds all excellent. Have a few 120 TTSX to try hopefully this weekend. 


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## Gibo

You loading to mag length John?

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## johnd

The 120's are good at mag length but the 140's are single feeders ... another reason to run them over a heavier projo.

I have used it on two reds and a Sika, all one hit wonders. Not a hi score by some standards but I eat real slow :Psmiley:

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## Danny

Tidy. 


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## superdiver

How do you find those amax on deer up close? I load 140 ELDMs for targets and run a different bush load in my 18" 260. Would rather one bullet for everything if I can @johnd

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## johnd

The 120's do good damage, but pass through. after expanding. All my shots have been short range, so the bullet is still motoring along. Two have been the "meat saver" shot just behind the shoulder into the lung / chest cavity. usually blow bits of rib out the far side with a good 1 inch or so exit wound. Last one was a neck / shoulder junction. When I was dressing it out despite cutting at the neck / head junction it came apart where the shot went in. I was expecting more damage into the shoulder area ( jellying etc ) but it was very minimal and on a par with say a .222 on a Fallow for a similar shot.

On a big stag or if hitting more bone results could be less than spectacular i am sure.  But the combination is working for me so far.
 @superdiver I am running both the 140 and 120 now using Strelok pro the difference is just a couple of clicks away and a shot for verification. You could run the 120's for semi distant targets with no dramas and have the silver bullet  :Pacman: 
Their best advantage is saving case capacity and mag length loading all in one bundle.

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## superdiver

Yeah my 140 ELDMs are doing 2775~ so not outrageously quick which I hear is ideal with them esp if my shots are closer. Most of my hunting is bush with the odd tops/slip hunting once or twice a year but do a fair bit of target stuff and shoot a reasonable distance. Will hopefully test them in 2 weeks on some reds. So you reckon avoid bone shots?

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## johnd

Have a read of this  @superdiver

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...ady+A-Max.html

And this

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...Remington.html

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## Mathias

@johnd no problem with W760. Running 45.5gr with 120gr Sierra  CCI200 primer, for a neat 2800fps out of the exact same rifle as yours, though I'm sure the barrel 20".

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## superdiver

Sweet as that first article was great. Will try them and see how I go.

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