# Hunting > The Magazine >  Tuhoe Banish Hunters

## Scribe

Front Page of Todays Waikato Times.

Hunters with Department Of Conservation-issued permits have been kicked out of the Urewera Ranges as Tuhoe flexes its muscles after regaining control of the National Park. Hunting in Te Urewera National Park has been suspended indefinitely and all DOC permits to hunt or run pig dogs in the area are now void.

The dramatic changes come on the heels of the Te Urewera act in which Te Urewera's status as a National Park was rescinded and management ceded to the new Te Urewera Board a joint Crown owned Tuhoe partnership.

Doc communications and engagement adviser Robert Orchard said permits to hunt Te Urewera National Park were no longer available.

"We're not issuing permits. DOC hunting permits are not being recognised by the board that's all I can say". ............

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## sakokid

So there is going to be a bunch of people hunting there soon with no permits it take it. I may be one of them.

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## cambo

I just started a similar thread  :Have A Nice Day: 

Here's the paper link...
Tuhoe banishes hunters in Urewera | Stuff.co.nz

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## Pengy

My thinking is that as they (DOC) have not notifies permit holders of the situation, then any current permit must be biding. 
I realise that if faced with a bunch of aggrieved locals, this is not really going to carry any weight, but legally, it must stand

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## scottrods

Clyde Grafs FB page this week had a quote from TH management. THey said they are working out a new process, since DOC permits no longer apply, the system to manage hunters will be by permit too (eventually) as per this page Governance and Management : Tuhoe. 

I expect it wouldn't take much for them to start charging access.  

One good thing is they won't be supporting a 1080 dump in the Urewares.

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## nelpop

Anything to make a buck. It didnt take them long to stop hunting via permits issued by DOC.  I  see that no new concession will be issued until April 2015. Is this in relation to hunting permit? I was planing a trip down that way with a permit so I guess it will now be planed without a permit.

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## mcche171

Bet you will be allowed in if you pay them a nice sum. Tuhoe being tutoe

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## Rushy

I think it highly likely that hunting access will be issued on a user pays basis and personally I do not struggle with Tuhoe doing so if it is properly administered and the charges are fair and equitable.  The crown in giving the management of Te Uruwera back to Tuhoe as part of the settlement with them acknowledged that Tuhoe never gave up their up their ownership of Te Uruwera and never were a party to the Treaty of Waitangi.  As much as I am a strong advocate for a non discriminatory, classless, one nation New Zealand, my feeling is that they have the right to treat the area in the same way that any other owner of private land can and that they equally have the right to either allow free access or to charge a fee.  We may not like it but mark my words "so it will be".

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## EeeBees

It was a given that this would be the outcome.

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## NZHTR

Good on them it is there land ,it will still be hunted by NZers in which in the near future we may or may not be charged for the permits ,nothing wrong with user pays ..

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## distant stalker

Pretty emotive title, the trustee group hasn't appointed somebody to the position that will take care of permits yet.

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## kiwijames

> Pretty emotive title, the trustee group hasn't appointed somebody to the position that will take care of permits yet.


Agreed. Could have done themselves a favour with a little forward planning though

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## Pengy

They are saying that they hope to have a permit system in place by xmas  :Sad: 
One of my concerns is that they will try and split the park into separate hunting blocks, as has been done elsewhere. The laughable situation at Tataraakina is one that should not be repeated imo. 
Double bookings, access issues, no decent maps available to show boundaries which leaves hunters in a potentially dangerous position.
Hopefully Tuhoe learn from the mistakes of others.

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## Twoshotkill

It will be very interesting watching how this pans out. Part of the agreement was that hunters would not be charged for permits but nothing to stop an "admin" fee. 
Will doc still be maintaining huts and tracks??? And who owns the roads and will be maintaining them??
I'm all for user pays but will someone be charging for use of things that is government paid for??
And will there be recognised wardens or is it just the locals doing what they like with stand over tactics.
I have a feeling this is a saga that will continue for some years .

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## BobGibson

It doesn't matter who paid for roads/huts or any other assets in years gone by. They belong to Tuhoe now and they have to maintain them so an admin fee or any other charge is entirely up to Tuhoe and I have no problem with that. I know of several tourist sites that local iwi have taken over and everyone of them is a far better facility now and none of the charges are unreasonable. We should all be working with Tuhoe on this because their anti 1080 stance could be a shining example to DOC on how to control pests in the rest of the conversation estate and this would be beneficial to all hunters. As stated by someone perviously there are many other private property owners to charge for access so Tuhoe is no different in that regard. I just hope the majority of hunters work with them and cooperate with regard to access. Unfortunately there will probably be some rednecks who will stir this for all its worth to justify their own bigoted views.

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## veitnamcam

I hope so bob.

Sent from my GT-S5360T using Tapatalk 2

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## Scribe

> It doesn't matter who paid for roads/huts or any other assets in years gone by. They belong to Tuhoe now and they have to maintain them so an admin fee or any other charge is entirely up to Tuhoe and I have no problem with that. I know of several tourist sites that local iwi have taken over and everyone of them is a far better facility now and none of the charges are unreasonable. We should all be working with Tuhoe on this because their anti 1080 stance could be a shining example to DOC on how to control pests in the rest of the conversation estate and this would be beneficial to all hunters. As stated by someone perviously there are many other private property owners to charge for access so Tuhoe is no different in that regard. I just hope the majority of hunters work with them and cooperate with regard to access. Unfortunately there will probably be some rednecks who will stir this for all its worth to justify their own bigoted views.


I like the way you think 'Bob' Since I was living close to the Northern access of Te Urewera in about 1986 to 1998 Tuhoe have fought to keep as much of the park clear of 1080 as they could. When 1080 was dropped small towns around the National Park would suffer real hardship.
No pork, no deer to sell, and no fur or skins. Families would do it real hard in those days including my own.

In the early 90s some big trapping programs were started using local labour. They were very successful some offshoots of those trapping programs are still running successfully today. The Northern Urewera Mainland Island Restoration is but one of them.

Its a well used statement in that Area "If DOC take an interest in an area or its flora and fauna it will soon be fucked"

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## Twoshotkill

[QUOTE=BobGibson;303893]It doesn't matter who paid for roads/huts or any other assets in years gone by. They belong to Tuhoe now and they have to maintain them so an admin fee or any other charge is entirely up to Tuhoe and I have no problem with that. 

I don't have an issue with a land owner having a fair charge for users. What worries me is doc will continue to do the work on the tracks / huts /roads etc . While someone else profits from it.
If as you have stated "they have to pay for it" was to be true then why is doc not closing down the murapara office??

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## Hunt4life

Was planning to relocate to BoP next year... Might rethink that if access to Te Urewera is too restricted. Anyone know if any of Whirinaki is affected under the return to Tuhoe? Or does the road between Murupara and Waikaremoana act as the clear boundary?

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## Pengy

Te Urewera the Tuhoe Homeland

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## The Rifleman

It's great that Tuhoe can have a say in what happens in their historical area/whenua.  I think they will do right by us all as hunters (Maori, European, Pakeha or however you prefer to define yourself). They know first hand the significance and value of deer, pigs, possum etc living in their rohe (area). What I can't quite work out is the haphazard manner in which the governance transition is being rolled out. Why has DOC stopped issuing permits before another system was ready to roll? Who made that call? The newspaper article would, in its alarmist tone, suggest that Tuhoe did. But it would have been pretty obvious that this would cause alarm and discord amongst the hunting fraternity. If DOC/the Government have made this decision without giving Tuhoe time to set up an alternative then I would say shame on them. If it was a Tuhoe call then I think they should have asked DOC to give them time to put something in place before literally telling hunters you can't hunt there.

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## outinabout

> Good on them it is there land ,it will still be hunted by NZers in which in the near future we may or may not be charged for the permits ,nothing wrong with user pays ..


That is bullshit. That is were it all starts. Hunting  for the wealthy only?? what happens when you cant get a permit because you dont have the cash that an overseas tourist has for his little hunting safari?? Think this will be the last national park claim do you?  dangerous path mark my words.

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## NZHTR

[QUOTE=outinabout;304031]That is bullshit. That is were it all starts. Hunting  for the wealthy only?? what happens when you cant get a permit because you dont have the cash that an overseas tourist has for his little hunting safari?? Think this will be the last national park claim do you?  dangerous path mark my words.[/QUOT 
 Lol sorry you've lost a few acres mate ,ill wait and see what the outcome is before i blow my foo foo valve .

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## phillipgr

It is frustrating that the transition between DOC permits and those issued by the board hasn't been done in a seamless way, but for me, I will reserve all judgement on this until the new permits actually come out.  No point in getting ahead of yourself.

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## kiwijames

> That is bullshit. That is were it all starts. Hunting  for the wealthy only?? what happens when you cant get a permit because you dont have the cash that an overseas tourist has for his little hunting safari?? Think this will be the last national park claim do you?  dangerous path mark my words.


Find yourself a nice girl from Murupara or Taneatua and join the whanau. Problem sorted

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## BobGibson

Below is a cut/paste from Tuhoe Website. I would strongly advise we all sit back and wait until the system is working.
I also think Riflemans input was very relevant 



HUNTING PERMITS FOR TE UREWERA ARE CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE.

The Te Urewera Act requires hunters to obtain a permit to carry a rifle or take pigdogs into Te Urewera.  New rifle and pigdog permits are being designed that reflects the new Te Urewera and the principles of the new Act, the safety of the hunter, visitors and the environment.  At this time it is not known when that process will be completed. When done the new permit will be located on this website (except for pigdog permits, which must be obtained in person) and can be accessed from any computer. Permits previously issued by DOC are no longer valid. Fishing licences will continue to be provided by Fish and Game.



ACCESS INTO TE UREWERA WILL CONTINUE TO BE FREELY AVAILABLE.

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## Toby

They could have picked a better title for the article then tuhoe banish hunters. Makes it sound worse then it is

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## JoshC

> That is bullshit. That is were it all starts. Hunting  for the wealthy only?? what happens when you cant get a permit because you dont have the cash that an overseas tourist has for his little hunting safari?? Think this will be the last national park claim do you?  dangerous path mark my words.


Payment based/pay per use permit systems have been around for years.

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## l1ft

> Payment based/pay per use permit systems have been around for years.


Doesn't make it right.

To be fair I don't believe any land should belong to anyone. And I find it ironic Maori are claiming ownership over something they have claimed for the last two centuries cannot be owned. I personally subscribe to their early philosophy. The land belongs to everyone, because we belong to the land.

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## Chris

> Below is a cut/paste from Tuhoe Website. I would strongly advise we all sit back and wait until the system is working.
> I also think Riflemans input was very relevant 
> 
> 
> 
> HUNTING PERMITS FOR TE UREWERA ARE CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE.
> 
> The Te Urewera Act requires hunters to obtain a permit to carry a rifle or take pigdogs into Te Urewera.  New rifle and pigdog permits are being designed that reflects the new Te Urewera and the principles of the new Act, the safety of the hunter, visitors and the environment.  At this time it is not known when that process will be completed. When done the new permit will be located on this website (except for pigdog permits, which must be obtained in person) and can be accessed from any computer. Permits previously issued by DOC are no longer valid. Fishing licences will continue to be provided by Fish and Game.
> 
> ...


That looks to be more what I'd expect from Tuhoe .I've always found them to be fair with regards to hunters & treated with respect. But you must also respect their culture, traditions & them.
Little places like Murupara ,Te Whiti ,Aniwaniwa motor camp all rely on those hunters passing threw for income.
I think they will be fair in what they decide to do,will just wait & see.I don't think what they're doing is about money. 
Personally I think their issues are with the crown & the government of this country & the way they have been treated by those party's.

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## phillipgr

> They could have picked a better title for the article then tuhoe banish hunters. Makes it sound worse then it is


That's journalism for you aye. Stuff.co.nz is particularly bad.

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## outinabout

> Below is a cut/paste from Tuhoe Website. I would strongly advise we all sit back and wait until the system is working.
> I also think Riflemans input was very relevant 
> 
> 
> 
> HUNTING PERMITS FOR TE UREWERA ARE CURRENTLY UNAVAILABLE.
> 
> The Te Urewera Act requires hunters to obtain a permit to carry a rifle or take pigdogs into Te Urewera.  New rifle and pigdog permits are being designed that reflects the new Te Urewera and the principles of the new Act, the safety of the hunter, visitors and the environment.  At this time it is not known when that process will be completed. When done the new permit will be located on this website (except for pigdog permits, which must be obtained in person) and can be accessed from any computer. Permits previously issued by DOC are no longer valid. Fishing licences will continue to be provided by Fish and Game.
> 
> ...


access will continue to be freely available .... but will hunting access?

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## Pointer

I told you lot, stay out of my forest!

 @Gibo @Twoshotkill @Rushy

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## Gibo

> I told you lot, stay out of my forest!
> 
>  @Gibo @Twoshotkill @Rushy


That freckle flaring up again mate?

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## kiwijames

We used to clear tracks up the Waimana (4ft track I think) all they way to the 8 Acre camp site with school. DoC would jet boat our gear up plus a few PD boys for a hand. Many good memories there. Good fishing too. 
Is the Lions Hut still there? Over Ogilvies bridge IIRC.

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## Kamel

A question if I may, who or what is/are TUHOE ?  thanks

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## res

> A question if I may, who or what is/are TUHOE ?  thanks


A Maori tribe

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## Rushy

> I told you lot, stay out of my forest!
> 
>  @Gibo @Twoshotkill @Rushy


Bro!

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## Chris

> A question if I may, who or what is/are TUHOE ?  thanks


Children of the mist .

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## Pengy

> Bro!


Nice one Koro

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## ishoot10s

> We used to clear tracks up the Waimana (4ft track I think) all they way to the 8 Acre camp site with school. DoC would jet boat our gear up plus a few PD boys for a hand. Many good memories there. Good fishing too. 
> Is the Lions Hut still there? Over Ogilvies bridge IIRC.


Yeah you can drive up past the Lions Hut at 8 acre and then drop into the Otapukawa stream and drive right to the Otap hut. The road to 8 Acre is good, there are concrete fords over the streams on the way there. 6 foot track was named for the size old Rua The Prophet made it to pull his wagons up through to Maungapohatu. I've hunted a lot of the Waimana area, Tawhana, Otane, Te Pourewa, Te Panaa  etc. The local Biddle family were good sorts, old Sonny was a bit of a character. They used to take their horses up there heaps.

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## Pengy

> Yeah you can drive up past the Lions Hut at 8 acre and then drop into the Otapukawa stream and drive right to the Otap hut. The road to 8 Acre is good, there are concrete fords over the streams on the way there. 6 foot track was named for the size old Rua The Prophet made it to pull his wagons up through to Maungapohatu. I've hunted a lot of the Waimana area, Tawhana, Otane, Te Pourewa, Te Panaa  etc. The local Biddle family were good sorts, old Sonny was a bit of a character. They used to take their horses up there heaps.


I had you pegged as more of a shooter than a hunter till now ishoot10S.

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## kiwijames

Was sent this today from NZDA via Alec McIvor
Here are some bullet points on the current permit hold for hunting in Te Urewera.


v  Due to the changeover in management from DOC to Te Urewera Board, currently, there are no permits for carrying a firearm in Te Urewera.
v  NZDA encourages all members/ hunters to go to the Te Uru Taumatua website for more information regarding Te Urewera Permits.          www.ngaituhoe.iwi.nz
v  NZDA has offered its assistance to get the permitting system up and running as soon as possible.
v  NZDA asks for patience from hunters, as this will ensure a good relationship is upheld with Tuhoe and Te Urewera Board.
Te Urewera is no longer a national park and is vested in itself as its own legal identity. It will effectively own itself in perpetuity with the Board to speak as its voice to provide governance and management in accordance with the principles of the Te Urewera Act.  (Taken from Te Uru Taumatua website)
NZDA has a very good relationship with Tuhoe and has been consulted as an important stakeholder throughout the treaty settlement process..

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## Rushy

I got an email from DoC today which said

Re - Existing Hunting Permit issued on 9/13/2014

The Te Urewera Act 2014 came into force 22 September 2014.  Under Te Urewera Act, the recently appointed Te Urewera Board now represents the wishes of the land as if it were a living person. 

As an existing Hunting Permit holder we wish to advise you that the Board has issued the following statement in regards to existing Hunting Permits.

To keep up to date on information relating to permits in Te Urewera, please visit Te Urewera the Tuhoe Homeland  call 07 312 9659 or email here@ngaituhoe.iwi.nz

Apologies if you received a previous email without the attachment. This was sent in error. 

Yours sincerely



Mike Jones
Eastern Bay of Plenty Conservation Partnership Manager

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## Danny

Me as well.

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