# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  I think we are about to get F******

## steven

Key says Government looking at unilateral consumption tax on online purchases from offshore sites; also looking at making online retailers register for GST | interest.co.nz

"But Key agreed that some online retailers could drop deliveries to New Zealand if they were required to register for GST."

I can so see Brownells or Ebay sellers bothering.

 :Sad:

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## Beavis

It's the 21st century people

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## nevada

They never stop thinking of ways to screw the people.

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## ChrisF

A lot of companies off shore will not bother at all , so I hope the GovT has big wharehouses & a lot of IRD staff to process all the little overseas purchases etc , GovT seems bent on doing stupid stuff , will have to vote Labour next time , chasing small amounts of tax seems counter productive ( when the cost of chasing the tax is more expensive than the result )  , unless the NEW IRD staff are for lowering the un-employment numbers ?

Does not seem LOGICAL , so it makes perfect sense to  GovT .

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## silentscope

just pay cash for everything, and pay 15% less and tell them to stick their gst, they already tax our income once.

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## Sasquatch

> They never stop thinking of ways to screw the people.


Yup, Govt doesn't care about the people only big business.

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## Beavis

> A lot of companies off shore will not bother at all , so I hope the GovT has big wharehouses & a lot of IRD staff to process all the little overseas purchases etc , GovT seems bent on doing stupid stuff , will have to vote Labour next time , chasing small amounts of tax seems counter productive ( when the cost of chasing the tax is more expensive than the result )  , unless the NEW IRD staff are for lowering the un-employment numbers ?
> 
> Does not seem LOGICAL , so it makes perfect sense to  GovT .


Read closer - Labour supports it

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## Sasquatch

> just pay cash for everything, and pay 15% less and tell them to stick their gst, they already tax our income once.


I like that idea, until the Govt takes away cash that is...

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## MassiveAttack

Don't panic, John key said he would resign if there was mass surveillance of New Zealanders so he will be gone by the weekend now that that's all out in the open. Yeah right.

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## screamO

> A lot of companies off shore will not bother at all , so I hope the GovT has big wharehouses & a lot of IRD staff to process all the little overseas purchases etc , GovT seems bent on doing stupid stuff , will have to vote Labour next time , chasing small amounts of tax seems counter productive ( when the cost of chasing the tax is more expensive than the result )  , unless the NEW IRD staff are for lowering the un-employment numbers ?
> 
> Does not seem LOGICAL , so it makes perfect sense to  GovT .


yea it would be interesting to see how they go about managing something like this, didn't they drop gifting tax because it cost more to manage than they where getting? On the other hand I can see the up side as both the government and retailers must be losing some serious money with the online (off shore) purchases, retailers start shutting there doors because people are only trying on the clothes and buying online which in turn creates more unemployment and your city centres and malls turn into ghost towns because the cafes, etc don't have any customer's because they are all unemployed..... I think it's the old double edged sword.
Then again if our local shops weren't charging $200.00 for a pair of jeans that I can buy online for $50.00 the government wouldn't need to be thinking about all the online sales. I think its f#*ked either way.

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## grunzter

...if local retail (not all, but many) did note rape us on price we would not feel so upset about this.
The big message is for local retail is to provide service like what we get from online stores, I would prefer to buy local its much more fun...

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## veitnamcam

> just pay cash for everything, and pay 15% less and tell them to stick their gst, they already tax our income once.


The problem with that is your bisiness goes broke because nothing has come in threw the books.

Eg Cash price,writes cheque, has to go threw books you loose 15%

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## silentscope

> I like that idea, until the Govt takes away cash that is...


then we trade. the world was a better place when you could trade for good or services. knocks all those useless cunts off the top once they have to work for their keep.

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## silentscope

> The problem with that is your bisiness goes broke because nothing has come in threw the books.
> 
> Eg Cash price,writes cheque, has to go threw books you loose 15%


it only works if everyone does it to knock it on the head completely.

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## 300CALMAN

> yea it would be interesting to see how they go about managing something like this, didn't they drop gifting tax because it cost more to manage than they where getting? On the other hand I can see the up side as both the government and retailers must be losing some serious money with the online (off shore) purchases, retailers start shutting there doors because people are only trying on the clothes and buying online which in turn creates more unemployment and your city centres and malls turn into ghost towns because the cafes, etc don't have any customer's because they are all unemployed..... I think it's the old double edged sword.
> Then again if our local shops weren't charging $200.00 for a pair of jeans that I can buy online for $50.00 the government wouldn't need to be thinking about all the online sales. I think its f#*ked either way.


Yep Labour also support this.

Unfortunately many sports goods retailers do the same.. screw us, this was our only out. It's like going back to the 1980s and protectionism. The shittiest thing is the $56 or so charge they whack on on top of the GST to pay more inspectors... Retailers are also getting screwed by their ridiculous rents, some of the highest in the world. The thing is, all anyone other than the shop owner and middlemen make in minimum wage as we don't make anything here anymore. I would feel different if these were damaging NZ manufacturing. They want it all, highest margins on stuff made in China. We forget all the jobs these companies took away when they moved overseas. :Omg: 

I will just have to get stuff like scopes sent to oz and pick it up. Or bring in larger quantities to offset the inspection charge. 

Screwwww them all

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## Tommy

I thought this was a politics free area

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## 7mmsaum

The less politics the better please

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## silentscope

i read that exact statement about 30 seconds ago and think thats a wise idea.

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## screamO

The thing that pisses me off is that I can go overseas and buy NZ product / produce cheaper than I can in NZ :Wtfsmilie:

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## veitnamcam

> Yep Labour also support this.
> 
> Unfortunately many sports goods retailers do the same.. screw us, this was our only out. It's like going back to the 1980s and protectionism. The shittiest thing is the $56 or so charge they whack on on top of the GST to pay more inspectors... Retailers are also getting screwed by their ridiculous rents, some of the highest in the world. The thing is, all anyone other than the shop owner and middlemen make in minimum wage as we don't make anything here anymore. I would feel different if these were damaging NZ manufacturing. They want it all, highest margins on stuff made in China. We forget all the jobs these companies took away when they moved overseas.
> 
> I will just have to get stuff like scopes sent to oz and pick it up. Or bring in larger quantities to offset the inspection charge. 
> 
> Screwwww them all


We honestly have the highest rents in the world? people in Japan sleep in a drawer  because space is so expensive?
No I haven't been to Japan but do know people who have and it is not even the most densly populated place on earth ?

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## Maca49

Whoa guys you need roads and infrastructure and all the things that give you the great life you have in NZ. Nothing comes back to NZ when you buy over the net and give all the dosh to a no name don't care about NZ overseas!!! Support local business and keep people in employment. It certainly ain't a perfect system, but I'm not staving,I have my healthcare, there's plenty to keep me busy and give me coin in my pocket, I have my freedom and my great family and lifestyle. It could be better, but it could be a bloody sight worse!! :Thumbsup:

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## Happy

Yep I'm with you @Maca49. Client spent 10 k on a genset I wanted 18 for . Mine did actually have a real Cummins engine mind you Arrived from China wouldn't even run 
Then the expectation was we d go fix it.  No way F off. It's quietly turning into rust in the spot they delivered it Smokes like bastard glazed bores no oil pressure. Rude yep I know but honestly 
I ain't fixing that crap !
Kiwis are right into importing their own stuff go for it . Just research it properly as some shit that turns up ain't even fit for purpose and wasn't when it went on the boat. Cheap equals shit!!

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## screamO

> Yep I'm with you @Maca49. Client spent 10 k on a genset I wanted 18 for . Mine did actually have a real Cummins engine mind you Arrived from China wouldn't even run 
> Then the expectation was we d go fix it.  No way F off. It's quietly turning into rust in the spot they delivered it Smokes like bastard glazed bores no oil pressure. Rude yep I know but honestly 
> I ain't fixing that crap !
> Kiwis are right into importing their own stuff go for it . Just research it properly as some shit that turns up ain't even fit for purpose and wasn't when it went on the boat. Cheap equals shit!!


I think that happens more than people think and at the end of the day it ends up costing them a lot more......the govt would be happy thou because I'm sure he would have paid GST

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## Happy

> I think that happens more than people think and at the end of the day it ends up costing them a lot more......the govt would be happy thou because I'm sure he would have paid GST


He paid total price to some New York bank before it left China. Key warning that he didn't listen to were the emails asking what colour he wanted it in. Me telling him we only offered Cummins Yellow and the reasons why I think he maybe now understands but I doubt it 
The colour ha ha he shoulda said nipple pink !!

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## Maca49

Yep  @Happy, dicks importing non compliant machinery then wanting me to modify it and accept responsibility for it when I do! Should be far more boarder control on the crap being dumped here. I did a 105 kva gen set a couple of months ago, first supplier provided a cheap and cheerful knock off at an inflated price. It did match so got sent back. Pisses me off the crap I see and the arguments when we charge accordingly to repair. There's some " good " brand power tools out there that are just shit as well! Great marketing companies ripping like there's no tomorrow.

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## Maca49

> He paid total price to some New York bank before it left China. Key warning that he didn't listen to were the emails asking what colour he wanted it in. Me telling him we only offered Cummins Yellow and the reasons why I think he maybe now understands but I doubt it 
> The colour ha ha he shoulda said nipple pink !!


So you Cummins Yellow huh?

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## Happy

Matt black with no stickers but costs only $2.50 incl Grab Snatch and Take Twice

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## 300CALMAN

Woah i think this has gone way off subject. we are talking about stuff under $400 (including postage). Totally agree with buying quality. The stuff most people import is the same Chinese S*** (including clothes) and specialist bits and pieces that retailers want double or tipple the money for here.

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## shift14

It's not about the politics and I don't think its about the retailer, I'll try and explain my thoughts.

Me and the cook are both PAYE workers....we effectively pay in PAYE enough to pay a Senior teachers wage in a Primary school.....and more.....then there's the GST, and the tax on a tax for petrol, diesel..... Nothing to offset tax against, and yes, we've had rentals.
I understand about roads, health etc and the cost. I always give a retailers a chance to sharpen their pencil and a tradesman the opportunity of a cash job....remember it's my hard earned cash I'm spending.
I'll listen to the wailing from those who preach to me from the high ground about buying offshore, cash jobs etc, if they can swear they've never offered or done a cashy, or bought something off eBay, Deal Extreme etc.
This is the 21st century folks, and I'm fucked if Im going to take it from behind when I can save my self perhaps hundreds of dollars on the Internet or by getting a cash job done.
The Internet, with ebay at our fingertips has shown us what's out there,and how much we can save, and then there's the offshore retailers that'll ship internationally, and even agencies that'll buy something for you and have it shipped.
It's not the 60's anymore.
I can see what a certain brands complete range is, not just what the agency holder thinks i need, and if he or the retailer is too tired to get it for me it'll be on my doorstep in 10 days.
If retailers are finding it hard, they're being undercut by one of their own, The Warehouse.
How many family businesses shut down when they moved into town?

I think some of the blame for costs here in NZ lie with the importers and distributors., but the retailer takes the heat with High St. or Mall rents.
In the meantime I'll shop wherever I can and try and get the best deal for me and mine.

Good example, a Samsonite travel suitcase, with 4 castors on one end, called 'spinners'..... $759 retail here.
 $NZ245 landed here ex eBay, free international shipping, takes 3 weeks, genuine item.....
I work too hard for my money to cop that shit.

Rant over, peace, out.
B

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## GravelBen

> There's some " good " brand power tools out there that are just shit as well!


Which ones? I always liked the Hitachi stuff in my brickie days, hopefully they haven't turned to crap.

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## tirantious

15% income tax 15% student loan 4% kiwisaver chuck in the cost of repaying polytech the 6k the student loan didnt cover, the power bill, rent, food and gst on anything i buy or use you can see why ive got bugger all in savings and had to borrow the boss car to go get shopping because i cant afford to fix the blown motor or replace the ute. i honestly struggle to see how i could eventually buy my own house let alone even buy into a farm the same goes for most off my mates unless there family already owns a farm. staying alive costs to much.

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## shift14

> Woah i think this has gone way off subject. we are talking about stuff under $400 (including postage


You might be, but they're not. The news item I read said that Customs did a sampling exercise, and that undervaluing was rife., huge in fact.
So it would follow that there's a huge "missing out" on the possible tax grab. 
If it's taxed (if applicable)at point of purchase, no more undervaluing, the tax take skyrockets.

Hey I've used Shipito out of the U.S.. Prior to shipping you fill out your own online Customs Declaration......figure the rest out for yourself

B

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## Friwi

Well guys, look at a brand like Outdoor Adventure Gear Online in New Zealand | Torpedo7 and their success. AND they are taking over the RandR sports shops and have now their products in the street and not only online.
As said above, we are not in the 60's anymore, you have to be smart and constantly evolving to stay in business.

For those who think they pay to much, have a look in France where you pay a 20% gst! a lot more in business and employment taxes . And at least 25% in inheritances taxes for parents to children but up to 60% if you inherited from somebody outside your direct family : and those dead people would have paid taxes and rates all their life on their property already!
Fuel is more expensive than here as well!
Oh and there is a capital gain tax on properties over there as well!!
And even a super tax for the super rich! That is why they leave france and invest elsewhere.

No, I can tell you, life is not that bad here :-)

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## Maca49

Nope Hitachi is a tool company, not a marketing one, best back up guaranteed

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## Maca49

> It's not about the politics and I don't think its about the retailer, I'll try and explain my thoughts.
> 
> Me and the cook are both PAYE workers....we effectively pay in PAYE enough to pay a Senior teachers wage in a Primary school.....and more.....then there's the GST, and the tax on a tax for petrol, diesel..... Nothing to offset tax against, and yes, we've had rentals.
> I understand about roads, health etc and the cost. I always give a retailers a chance to sharpen their pencil and a tradesman the opportunity of a cash job....remember it's my hard earned cash I'm spending.
> I'll listen to the wailing from those who preach to me from the high ground about buying offshore, cash jobs etc, if they can swear they've never offered or done a cashy, or bought something off eBay, Deal Extreme etc.
> This is the 21st century folks, and I'm fucked if Im going to take it from behind when I can save my self perhaps hundreds of dollars on the Internet or by getting a cash job done.
> The Internet, with ebay at our fingertips has shown us what's out there,and how much we can save, and then there's the offshore retailers that'll ship internationally, and even agencies that'll buy something for you and have it shipped.
> It's not the 60's anymore.
> I can see what a certain brands complete range is, not just what the agency holder thinks i need, and if he or the retailer is too tired to get it for me it'll be on my doorstep in 10 days.
> ...


Your living the New Zealand dream by the sound of it, lie back and enjoy, you could be in Russia, Iraq, Brasil, Argentina.............. I know where I like it tax or not

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## Maca49

> Well guys, look at a brand like Outdoor Adventure Gear Online in New Zealand | Torpedo7 and their success. AND they are taking over the RandR sports shops and have now their products in the street and not only online.
> As said above, we are not in the 60's anymore, you have to be smart and constantly evolving to stay in business.
> 
> For those who think they pay to much, have a look in France where you pay a 20% gst! a lot more in business and employment taxes . And at least 25% in inheritances taxes for parents to children but up to 60% if you inherited from somebody outside your direct family : and those dead people would have paid taxes and rates all their life on their property already!
> Fuel is more expensive than here as well!
> Oh and there is a capital gain tax on properties over there as well!!
> And even a super tax for the super rich! That is why they leave france and invest elsewhere.
> 
> No, I can tell you, life is not that bad here :-)


Friwi may NZ inherit many more great people like you that contribute to and appreciate this country!  :Thumbsup:

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## Spudattack

Jeez, some people really don't know how good they have it!

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## ChrisF

What the GovT & IRD fail to realise is , they will not make big Tax takes at all , IT will not work any where close to what they are thinking or not thinking .
The reason people buy from oversea's is 2 fold .

1 ) Its available now .
2 ) Its cheaper .
And when you boil those down , its mainly the cheaper part .

WHY , because we cannot afford it other wise , SO if it no IF its no longer cheaper & we cannot afford IT , then we will not be BUYING it at all  , this means NO big Tax take , again no logic applied at all .

Its this simple , the ONLY 2 options are , 1 )  buy if cheap , as thats all we can afford , or 2 ) donot buy as its too dear/expensive .

I love NZ , BUT , its real hard to keep loving her , when LOGIC is no longer applied , 

We have a low population density , ie we have heaps of land , THEN why do we have the most expensive land in the world ?

We have low realitive wages when compared to other developed countries ?

We have some of the highest prices for houses in the world ?

We have some of the highest rents in the world ?

High taxs , & little infrastructure return for our taxes , ie most services are puesdo , ie pretend , we have tax paid public hospitals , BUT donot expect to be able to use them really , IF you want anything more than a disprin & bandaid , YOU need health insurance ???? 

So just for health , WE pay double , its just one example , services that are meant to be provided free , are NOT , thats just one , you could look at a lot of services that have been split off , and charging seperately , when they did not before .


SO in short we get LOW wages & we pay the highest prices for everything , houses ,land , car , petrol , NICE .
If we had high wages & high housing , its sort of balanced , or low wages & low housing . does any of this seem how it should be ?

We are told , BY the RBNZ not to buy houses we cannot afford , and they stop banks lending to people that donot have enough of a deposit , then on TV tonight , 100% house loans , no deposit needed at all , brillant .

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## screamO

My Grandfather always told me there were two certainties in life, death and taxes.

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## shift14

> Your living the New Zealand dream by the sound of it, lie back and enjoy, you could be in Russia, Iraq, Brasil, Argentina.............. I know where I like it tax or not


I am enjoying it, it's not a dream, it's my reality. I could be anywhere I want, including the basket cases you mention, but I'm not, I'm here.
It's not about tax, it's about being gouged as a consumer, that's not ok, just cause I'm here in NZ.

B

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## Friwi

Those top guys at the top of the gvt they not only provide a service but also a self service! At least that is the case in France! :-)

If properties were not that expensive here and mortgage so high then we could spend a bigger chunk of our wages on food ,education and well being and our toys of course.

But property investment (with no capital gain tax ) being a national sport since the 90's , that wealth is stuck in the hands of the ones who can afford to play the game to the detriment of the rest and newer generations as well.

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## Yukon

We have to add G.S.T. on everything, even if the sale is only a few cents, and if we are late paying G.S.T. to the I.R.D. they F.A.K. us up the B.U.M. with a fine.  :O O:

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## Maca49

> 15% income tax 15% student loan 4% kiwisaver chuck in the cost of repaying polytech the 6k the student loan didnt cover, the power bill, rent, food and gst on anything i buy or use you can see why ive got bugger all in savings and had to borrow the boss car to go get shopping because i cant afford to fix the blown motor or replace the ute. i honestly struggle to see how i could eventually buy my own house let alone even buy into a farm the same goes for most off my mates unless there family already owns a farm. staying alive costs to much.


Work hard, look for opportunities,Remember in the end the only one that counts is you, look after yourself and your loved ones,It happens over time, set small goals, dream big, and move forward. When I got married 43 years ago, I had a car worth $1800, no bank account or savings, I was 23 yrs old, I had a trade, but no money skills, I learnt! I had no hand outs or family that could/would help me. I worked hard and did whatever I could with my skills to make money. It ain't easy but that's the way life is. My wages were rung out to the last cent!!! every week.
I look back now with great satisfaction, pity is life is finite and thats a bit of a bastard when you reach retirement age and still want to run round like a 23 yr old!

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## Maca49

> My Grandfather always told me there were two certainties in life, death and taxes.


and a bit of rooting in between!!!

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## Maca49

> Jeez, some people really don't know how good they have it!


You right there Spud, there's oysters everywhere in NZ. You just got to learn how to harvest!!

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## Comfortably_Numb

To each there own, I suppose.
Everyone has an opinion, that they feel is the right one. If govt can implement and successfuly maintain a tax for 400 or less, I for one will be amazed. 
The news has the govt saying that this tax would be a couple of years away, as it would be " complex "

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## Beavis

I don't have a huge beef with paying GST. The reality of international shopping for me, is that a lot of the things I want, you simply can't just go out and buy in New Zealand. I usually find that certain things that are available here, are poor quality at high cost, or at a price that does not justify the purchase of the item. I don't have a lot of money to spend on my hobbies after the bills are payed, why should I be forced by the govt and outdated business models to pay extortionate amounts for a product that is clearly inferior for the money? This is with regards to international companies having to register with IRD and sort out our tax at their end. It will kill online shopping, which is what local bricks and mortar businesses will want. Welcome back to the 80's New Zealand. Seriously this is capitalism and the free market in it's finest form - the consumer dictating the market. Local business need to embrace it and evolve. Or FOAD for our benefit.

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## Maca49

> FOAD???  Ah yes, that would be the blunt way of putting that...
> 
> A prime example today, mate blows up a 'little' DC power supply accidentally - let the magic smoke out.  Two quotes from the only two suppliers in NZ, $1750 and $1850 rough figures including.
> 
> Latest and greatest ex the US, landed in NZ including shipping $NZ390.  Why do we by overseas again, I might have forgotten...


And hopefully 230volt , the right size to run whatever and compliant with nz standards if he needs a tag on it, cause if not it either no tag or the poor bastard that tags it will be liable if it burns something down. I've just been through this exercise with someone else and there were no free lunches :Grin:

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## 300CALMAN

This is one of the beast threads ever  :Thumbsup: 

At the end of the day I don't think this is so much about gathering more Tax. There are much easier ways such as house stamp duties, capital gain taxes, overseas investor tax, closing company tax loopholes etc. Its about protecting retailers from competition. Without a doubt any system will either cut off overseas retailers, introduce extra unfair charges (such as inspection/clearance charges) or just make it more complicated etc. Stopping people undervaluing for tax would involve banning private importation. 

Sorry to those out there who are doing well and cant understand and why others are struggling. New Zealand is still one of the best places in the world to live but it is slowly becoming a rich mans playground.

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## GravelBen

> Its about protecting retailers from competition.


And its probably being considered because of pressure/nagging from retailers and unions.

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## veitnamcam

> When I got married 43 years ago, I had a car worth $1800, no bank account or savings, I was 23 yrs old,


Should have brought a house freehold! :Thumbsup:

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## screamO

My theory is make the most of it while you can. I'm all for buying the same product for cheaper else where, who wouldn't be? Long term it will F#*k new Zealanders either way because if they don't do something about it they will have to put up taxes and god knows what else which will properly cost more than paying a bit off GST on some imported goods.
I have had lots of mates that all f@*k off overseas to make the big money and tell me how good it is, then they come back with no money and tell me how they had to drive 1 1/2 hours to work and 2 hours to get home un-paid and in there own vehicle, If they worked those unpaid driving hours in NZ they would have been making more money......But while in NZ they didn't want to travel more than halve an hour un-paid?

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## mikee

I'll still be buying overseas  for variety and service as with a few exceptions retailers here have not cottoned on to the fact that good customer service is the key (and I work in a service industry). 

I'd gladly pay the GST and freight , better than being gouged here especially when the minute the "whatever' breaks being fobbed off with retailers who don't give a shit once they have your money. What was the benefit of buying here again??

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## Maca49

It's a long way off a rich mans playground in my opinion, remember we need rich people, a country full of poor people would be a bastard without the dole!! I get sick of supporting things with my taxes that I don't believe in but hey the more tax we gather the better off we would be. Google, Apple and multi nationals are the pricks that need to come good and stop raping us of tax.
Global markets have their downside and we are finally waking up, or at least the govt is as to where money is going, OFF SHORE!
But don't worry United Nations when they get control will have it sorted ah for F##ksake it's depressing! :Brains...!:

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## JRW87

I only shop online for variety and ease price is usually a distant third factor, supply house had a tool pouch for $370nzd. It was on Amazon for $75USD, now Im quite happy for everyone to make a bit of meat but thats the NZ distributor taking the piss in my opinion.

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## Maca49

> My theory is make the most of it while you can. I'm all for buying the same product for cheaper else where, who wouldn't be? Long term it will F#*k new Zealanders either way because if they don't do something about it they will have to put up taxes and god knows what else which will properly cost more than paying a bit off GST on some imported goods.
> I have had lots of mates that all f@*k off overseas to make the big money and tell me how good it is, then they come back with no money and tell me how they had to drive 1 1/2 hours to work and 2 hours to get home un-paid and in there own vehicle, If they worked those unpaid driving hours in NZ they would have been making more money......But while in NZ they didn't want to travel more than halve an hour un-paid?


If I was young, I'd get a decent qualification, I'd spend 5 yrs overseas earning the big dosh, my kids have done this, then I'd come back to gods own and settled down here with all its great lifestyle and money in the bank! There is certainly big money to be earnt overseas, but conditions can be challenging!

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## veitnamcam

The simple facts are if you don't produce something then you are a parasite living off of those who produce.
A short hundred years ago virtually everyone produced something or fixed something, very few sat on their arse producing nothing.
nowadays most large company's have huge numbers of staff who produce nothing but rules and get payed very well to do it.

There is a set amount of food/shelter/clothing etc if you aint producing it then the very fact you are alive is increasing the cost of it. which means those producing it have to work harder and more efficiently for less than ever before.

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## screamO

> If I was young, I'd get a decent qualification, I'd spend 5 yrs overseas earning the big dosh, my kids have done this, then I'd come back to gods own and settled down here with all its great lifestyle and money in the bank! There is certainly big money to be earnt overseas, but conditions can be challenging!


Agree completely, just had an old appreciate ring to say he's coming back, gone 5 years and coming back to two houses a section and almost enough to build a house on the section, he's one of the lucky ones I know.

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## shift14

> I don't have a huge beef with paying GST.  Local business need to embrace it and evolve


My thoughts exactly. As another poster said, it's about protecting retailers, and I think, controlling, greedy middlemen/ importers.

What about the virtual traders on TradeMe, are they next ? Perhaps ban eBay? .ban parallel imports?.. Get real, the days of pulling up the drawbridge and the moat mentality are over.
 I remember the 60's and 70's .... They were dark, controlled times, thank God they're over.

B

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## shift14

> Google, Apple and multi nationals are the pricks that need to come good and stop raping us of tax.:


Not just them mate, our so called iconic NZ companies are experts at onshore tax " minimalisation " in the name of protecting the shareholders " best interests".

B

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## Maca49

> Should have brought a house freehold!


Shit man I paid $4k for my first section and spent $15k on my first house, building it myself and I saw it a couple of weeks ago it's still standing and doesn't leak! You can see by that I'm not a qualified builder! I had a first mortgage of $12k and a second mortgage of $1.5k
I was earning about $4.5 k a year. I did the foundations at night , after work,using a flood light on a pole to see by, then all day Saturday and Sunday on site, took me about 6 months to build.

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## Maca49

> Not just them mate, our so called iconic NZ companies are experts at onshore tax " minimalisation " in the name of protecting the shareholders " best interests".
> 
> B


Yep I work for some of NZ biggest and they hated paying tax, but they paid wages and PAYE to thousands, Google and Apple don't even do that they just rape

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## Maca49

> The simple facts are if you don't produce something then you are a parasite living off of those who produce.
> A short hundred years ago virtually everyone produced something or fixed something, very few sat on their arse producing nothing.
> nowadays most large company's have huge numbers of staff who produce nothing but rules and get payed very well to do it.
> 
> There is a set amount of food/shelter/clothing etc if you aint producing it then the very fact you are alive is increasing the cost of it. which means those producing it have to work harder and more efficiently for less than ever before.


That's what China does for us now! Don't we love the cheap shit? We'll be really f**ked if Fonterra faulters

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## shift14

> Yep I work for some of NZ biggest and they hated paying tax, but they paid wages and PAYE to thousands, Google and Apple don't even do that they just rape


No argument with any of that. At least tho, when I bought iPhones online through apple.com, GST was paid.

B

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## screamO

> Shit man I paid $4k for my first section and spent $15k on my first house, building it myself and I saw it a couple of weeks ago it's still standing and doesn't leak! You can see by that I'm not a qualified builder! I had a first mortgage of $12k and a second mortgage of $1.5k
> I was earning about $4.5 k a year. I did the foundations at night , after work,using a flood light on a pole to see by, then all day Saturday and Sunday on site, took me about 6 months to build.


There's not many people these days that will put that extra hard work in to get ahead, even harder if you actually want to build your own house with the new licensing shit.

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## 300CALMAN

Unfortunately many (maybe most) of the real rich are paying little or no taxes.. Its all the rest of us in the middle, look it up its true.

If the government was waking up to our money going off shore they would make sure overseas companies payed tax on their profits and make overseas property investors pay tax on what they make here. Not waste time chasing $15 on a pair of jeans made in Bangladesh that costs customs $14 it inspect including checking the true value, sending a bill, processing a payment and then signing off product release. This aproach will just create a much larger more expensive tax gathering bureaucracy.

I have no problem paying GST on anything but i just don't think there will be a fair way to do it. I think this is what is wanted by the retailers, not a fair playing field.

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## 300CALMAN

:Pissed Off: 

Dam i should have brought 5-10 Auckland Houses back in the 1990s on no deposit loans (I know people who did). Think I could now retire on all that tax free capital gain...

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