# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Rifle Double Grouping

## cambo

Took my brand new bush rifle to the NZDA range today to run it in and also sight it in.
It's a un-suppressed latte bubbler (Howa 1500 stainless hogue 7mm08). Came with a Nikko Sterling 3-9x40 scope.

Did the long run in method - shoot 1 clean 1 etc.   
Then sighted it at 50m to reasonable groupings, or so I thought.

This following cluster fuck is mostly 3 shot groups and 10-15 mins at least between each grouping.......

Onto the 100m and it was all over the place. Couldn't get it to group at all. To be honest, I probably fired too many rounds chasing my tail at this point.   :Pissed Off: 

Got out my AR and checked I could at least shoot that OK. Let out some frustration with that. 
Kinda felt sorry for the fella next to me though. He had brass pelting him for a couple of mag dumps. He was a GC though.  :Thumbsup:  

Went back to 50m and bore sighted the 7mm08. Then fired 3 shot groups to sight in. Seemed OK so onto the 100m.
Not even on the paper this time. WTF???  RO was spotting for me by now and couldn't understand what was happening as well.
Back to 50 and took my time to try and see what was up. Firing single shots and leaving it a few mins between shots. 
He noticed that every 3rd shot grouped real nice and tight on the 1st shot. 2nd shot dropped approx 2" low and left and 4th shot grouped tight with 2nd.
Grouped nicely enough like that so went to the 100m again. Firing single shots leaving it a few mins between shots.
Did exactly the same grouping type there. 1st and 3rd almost in same spot, under 1". 2nd and 4th low and left (probably 4" gap) but grouped tight also.
Left it here after 60 rounds fired in total today.  :Zomg: 

Only explanation is recoil lug could need work to stop this double grouping.

Heard that this can be typical type fault of the Hogue stocks.
Anyone had any experience with them?

Thinking I will have to get the stock bedded, or fit another stock.

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## cambo

Ammo used was PPU 140gr factory, but I did try 20rnds of Remington Corelok 140gr as well with same results.
Shooting was done off Harris Bipod.
Barrel is fully free floating.
All scope mounts, bases, and stock screws are tight.

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## distant stalker

Sounds a mechanical issue, if scope and mounts etc are tight I would be looking at bedding/recoil lug,would pay to see if barrel is touching stock also, the howas I have handled have had a fair bit of flex in the stock

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## R93

check recoil lug and get it bedded.


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## 257weatherby

- bedding
- chamber alignment
- .284 might measure .285
- technique 
One of the above.

Try fitting a rubber shim in the end of the fore end between it and the barrel, big enough to put a consistent positive tension between the two. Try again with both benchrest type free recoil and firm control sling wrap shooting technique, the group shapes will give you the clue you need.

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## scoped

Sounds like a recoil lug or bedding issue

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## cambo

Will be taking the stock off to inspect the recoil lug.  Will be after a hunt labour weekend though. At least the first and 3rd shots are on the money. lol

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## Gibo

> Will be taking the stock off to inspect the recoil lug.  Will be after a hunt labour weekend though. At least the first and 3rd shots are on the money. lol


1st shot miss, 2nd into ground at feet, third got him  :Wink:

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## Shearer

Loose the bipod. Put it on a sand bag.

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## cambo

> 1st shot miss, 2nd into ground at feet, third got him


You got it Gibo  :Psmiley:

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## cambo

> Loose the bipod. Put it on a sand bag.


Only thought of that after I got home. 
Will give the bipod to my mate for his Remy just for the hunt we're going on and I'll use my pack as a rest when needed.

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## ishoot10s

Think about putting some decent glass on it too. The Nikko Shitter might have a fault inside.

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## cambo

> Think about putting some decent glass on it too. The Nikko Shitter might have a fault inside.


The plan is to put a dialable scope on it in the future. But for now the Nikko will have to make do.

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## Matt2308

Scope or bedding.

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## Marty Henry

Double grouping is commonly caused by poor bedding or uneven pressure on the barrel. 3 shot groups are not definitive  a 5 is much better.  I had this happen with a Zastava with a plastic stock. The stock warped in the back of a ute due to heat and touched the barrel, so I free floated it thinking it was a good idea. It had shot ok before but after free floating turned to shit. Turns out it was pressure bedded. Had to do a bedding job with accraglass to get it back. Worth it though now shoots 3/4 in off a sandbag at 100. Also agree loosing the bipod is a good idea, they bugger the balance and are useless when quick shots present themselves.

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## scottrods

try the old trick with a couple of shims made out of coke can. I'm told this works.
My 243 was bedded by previous owner and shoots real well. 
Figure if I can hold out till next winter, I'll bring in a Bell and Carlson stock or something for the 270, then I'll start hand loading for it.

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## Rushy

Cambo all these other blokes have tried to be helpful so I will as well.  you could either get closer to the target or give the rifle to me.

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## foxhound

A mate has one in 308 with the Hogue stock and fairly slim barrel factory threaded. He wasn't that excited about the grouping at first and thought he had bought a lemon. Once bedded and he did put a DPT suppressor on, it would put 5 rounds into around an inch @ 100 with hand loads. I was impressed given that the barrel is so thin and thought it would be all over the place once it got warm.

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## cambo

> Cambo all these other blokes have tried to be helpful so I will as well.  you could either get closer to the target or give the rifle to me.


Rushy - you are a gentleman for such a kind offer. How close do you reckon? 
Close enough so I can swing the rifle by the barrel and smack the deer on its head with the stock? Or a but further away so the latte bubble maker can at least make a noise before the deer run off laughing at me?     :Psmiley:

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## Rushy

> Rushy - you are a gentleman for such a kind offer. How close do you reckon? 
> Close enough so I can swing the rifle by the barrel and smack the deer on its head with the stock? Or a but further away so the latte bubble maker can at least make a noise before the deer run off laughing at me?


Closer the better with a 7-08.  All of the deer and pigs that  @phillipgr has got have either died laughing or been smacked between the eyes with the butt.

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## phillipgr

> Closer the better with a 7-08.  All of the deer and pigs that  @phillipgr has got have either died laughing or been smacked between the eyes with the butt.


I'm more of a bare-knuckle sort of hunter. I take a 7mm08 a long (and sometimes a handbag) to make Rushy feel less emasculated.

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## Rushy

> I'm more of a bare-knuckle sort of hunter. I take a 7mm08 a long (and sometimes a handbag) to make Rushy feel less emasculated.


Ha ha ha ha good retort Phillip

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## Jimmynostars

Have you contemplated taking the thing back to the supplier?

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## Dead is better

Definitely have a certified expert have a shot of it first. If its heat related it might be a stressed barrel that has a wondering POI as it heats up.

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## cambo

> Definitely have a certified expert have a shot of it first. If its heat related it might be a stressed barrel that has a wondering POI as it heats up.


Unlikely heat effect on barrel, as it is grouping in two different spots. Heat would more likely make the shots spray randomly I would've thought.

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## greghud

stop wasting ammo, it should only take a couple of shots to sight in a rifle, if it is playing up, and you continue to shoot with out fixing the problem you are wasting your time and money.
by all meens, take it out of the stock and have a play with the action screws make sure they are snug.
piss the bipod off, they are bloody useless, set up a rest on a bench or even a half empty bag of chook food if you have no other option. but it is important to eliminate tourqueing the stock by supporting it with your rest as close to the action as is pratical.
the rest should eliminate all movement.
the problem with the houge stocks is that they flex like all hell, you will ajust your hold between shots due to recoil this causes un even tourquing of the stock, the same as caused by poor bedding. this is amplified by the bipod as it is at the end of the stock.
set a target up at 50 mtrs. you will see if all the shots are going into one hole or if not that all the shots will at least hit paper.
run a 5 shot group. see if that fixes the problem.
having eliminated the possability of poor accuracy coming from the stock if it still shoots poorly, take another scope that you know works well. install it  and repeat the test.
dont worry about letting the barrel cool and cleaning between shots, its a waste of time and money.
you should expect it to shoot to a maximum of 1 inch at 50mtrs or better. 
if the new scope dose not fix the problem, the gun will need further work that should be performed by a gunsmith, the likes of pillar or epoxy bedding, recrowning and the like.
greg

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## Uplandstalker

> stop wasting ammo, it should only take a couple of shots to sight in a rifle, if it is playing up, and you continue to shoot with out fixing the problem you are wasting your time and money.
> by all meens, take it out of the stock and have a play with the action screws make sure they are snug.
> piss the bipod off, they are bloody useless, set up a rest on a bench or even a half empty bag of chook food if you have no other option. but it is important to eliminate tourqueing the stock by supporting it with your rest as close to the action as is pratical.
> the rest should eliminate all movement.
> the problem with the houge stocks is that they flex like all hell, you will ajust your hold between shots due to recoil this causes un even tourquing of the stock, the same as caused by poor bedding. this is amplified by the bipod as it is at the end of the stock.
> set a target up at 50 mtrs. you will see if all the shots are going into one hole or if not that all the shots will at least hit paper.
> run a 5 shot group. see if that fixes the problem.
> having eliminated the possability of poor accuracy coming from the stock if it still shoots poorly, take another scope that you know works well. install it  and repeat the test.
> dont worry about letting the barrel cool and cleaning between shots, its a waste of time and money.
> ...


Agree. Houge stock supported by a bipod is bad news. Either bed an arrow shaft into the stock to stiffen it, or get an aftermarket rigid one. Pilar bed should sort it too, as it will raise the action and barrel a little to reduce the chance of the stock touching the barrel.

Try shooting it of a solid rest, under the action, not at the forend. If this allows you to shoot a good group, it nearly confirms the houge stock issue.

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## cambo

Just came across this from Howa.

To keep the temperature cool in the barrel, wait at least 5 minutes between break-in 
shots. The barrel must remain cool during the break-in procedure. If the barrel is 
allowed to heat up during the break-in, it will destroy the steels ability to develop a 
home registration point, or memory. It will have a tendency to make the barrel walk
when it heats up in the future.

Interesting....
I can say that my barrel never got hot. Only ever fired single shots between cleaning for break in period so barrel never got even warm. Then and after that 3 shot groups with a gap of 10-15 mins between groups. 
Will be taking it out for a hunt labour weekend, then I will take it to the range again to try it on sand bags instead of the bipod, and another very experienced well known shooter will have a go as well just to see if that makes a difference.
Supplier doesn't want me to take it apart or to modify it yet. Got to keep targets for them too.

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## Shamus

> Just came across this from Howa.
> 
> To keep the temperature cool in the barrel, wait at least 5 minutes between break-in 
> shots. The barrel must remain cool during the break-in procedure. *If the barrel is 
> allowed to heat up during the break-in, it will destroy the steels ability to develop a 
> home registration point, or memory. It will have a tendency to make the barrel walk
> when it heats up in the future.*
> 
> Interesting....
> ...


Have to say that sounds like complete bollocks ...

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## 199p

With out reading the whole thread but arnt they pressure point bedded?

I know from my Weatherby that it has 3 different point of impacts depending on how u hold it while shooting. 

Have you put it on a sled or front and back sandbags?

Bipods are a bitch with syn stocks and pressure point bedding

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## Nick-D

Nah they are supposed to be floated from factory.

Cam, I just shot mine to break it in. No fancy procedure, no worrying about the barrel heat ect.
It shoots 3/4 of a bi pod no probs(provided I do my bit obv). Is the slightly heavier profile barrel as its in 6.5x55 and has a boyds stock, so will be a little stiffer.

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## cambo

Cheers for all the input guys.   :Thumbsup: 

Yeah the barrel is fully floating. I can get my cleaning cloth all the way up to the receiver.
It's such a nice stock to hold and shoulder compared to the cheaper rifles out there.

Next step for the rifle is more range time. Will be firing off sand bags this time, and 2 different shooters to compare.
Will report back after that.

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## cambo

Brand new Leupold bases that came with package, checked for tightness (Locktite was used when they were put on) Good rings, checked for tightness. 
Scope is Nikkon Stirling, so not the ideal but is only on temporarily till I get some nice optics further down the track (ie: when my wife relinquishes her grip on my wallet).

Will go through everything again at the range and document it all for the supplier anyway.

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## Happy

I have a new one Suppressed,trigger job,fluted bolt for it. Shoots 3/4 easy using Belmont 130 HP. No recoil hardly and they kill stuff .
I notice the stock is boggy but I sighted it in off my daypack real easy  Didn't read the instructions as usual . Same bases as you but VX 1 3-10? X 50 on steel leupold rings which I quite like. Be interesting to see how you get on!

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## Happy

@Mauser308 mine are just bases not adjustable at all .

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## cambo

> Those the Leupold windage adjustable bases?  If so, yuuuck.
> 
> Another possible culprit is the rear base not being properly centered, and the scope adjustment is hard over to one side to compensate and get the POI corrected so that the internal tension springs on the reticle adjustment aren't applying the correct tension.  The recoil of each shot bounces the reticle from limit to limit giving double grouping...
> 
> The rotating front ring in the Leupold windage-adjusting design means that the front ring can move in the base as well.  It might not wiggle apparently when you check it, but it doesn't take much movement to give you a different POI at 100m.  That setup would be a a prime, possible culprit to me - I've found issues with about 3 or those setups now (usually dodgy installation).  The front base, front screw (where the hole through the action is above the barrel tenon or barrel threads) needs to be carefully shortened down so that it doesn't bottom out on the threads on the barrel before the head of the screw bares down on the front base.
> 
> I would disassemble an inspect the scope bases and mounting system (again) and check the lateral position of the rear base (it must be as near to centered as possible) and then check the front base.  Remove the rear screw from the front base and then see if the front base is still tight against the receiver.  If not, you might have just found the problem.  If it is, try a one-piece base and weaver rail type rings.  
> 
> From there, you need to try another scope - the current one might be toast.  I've seen the windage error twice now with the rear base, both times the scope (Leupold) had to go back to the factory because the adjustment system had been damaged.  The 3rd time, the front base front screw hadn't been shortened and the front base wasn't fully secured down...



Bases just normal type. Not adjustable. 
Was assembled by a very competent person that has a lot of experience. He found the rings that came with the package weren't very good, so gave (lent) me some very good rings.
He was very expensive to please however - but finally came to an agreement by stuffing him with my wife's baking. 

Will be going over everything again to make sure things are right. I'll be posting results when things have been done.

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## Uplandstalker

Creedmore sights instead of scope could be an option


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## timattalon

Agree on several points here. 

Lose the bipod while you are trying to sight in. You are far better on rests or sand bags on those concrete bench's at the hand-loaders. 

Also there is a chance it is the scope or the stock. Or possibly your shooting position.

Is your eye going in exactly the same place each time. One way to test this without going to the range is set you rifle up on a bench or picnic table so it is steady. Look through the scope at a target about 75 t 100 metres away. Now move your head around without moving the gun. Does the cross hair move in relation to the target even though the rifle is not moving. This could indicate parrallax is not quite right at that range for your scope. Thus if your head does not go in exactly the right spot the crosshair will appear to move hence the poor grouping. I have had several Hows and they have all shot very well once I got the glass sorted.

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## northdude

just leave it in the car outside the café and concentrate on your latte  :Have A Nice Day:  im running 8 nikko stirlings and havnt had a dud yet be interesting to hear what it is

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## andyanimal31

Let that be a lesson to those of you who don't buy tikkas!
I took out my mates new wsm tikka and with one of two hand loads it shot into an inch at 200. Load done!
I did a brand new howa last year and had to get it bedded before it would even shoot with out major impact changes.
I'm sorry tikka haters but it's just a no brainer for this lad.
Fight I hate peace

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## Carpe Diem

> Only thought of that after I got home. 
> Will give the bipod to my mate for his Remy just for the hunt we're going on and I'll use my pack as a rest when needed.


Mate the flex in the Hogue stock is probably whats touching something here (torqued by the Bipod under load) or as everyone's saying you're getting imperfect results from the recoil lug being able to return to battery.

Also check optics probably the easiest to do... put another scope on it and see if it does this too...

P.

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## Happy

At the risk of you not seeing the recent replies  @cambo How are you going with this ?

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## GravelBen

> Let that be a lesson to those of you who don't buy tikkas!
> I took out my mates new wsm tikka and with one of two hand loads it shot into an inch at 200. Load done!
> I did a brand new howa last year and had to get it bedded before it would even shoot with out major impact changes.
> I'm sorry tikka haters but it's just a no brainer for this lad.
> Fight I hate peace


Meh, last Tikka I used was grouping 3-4" at 100! Heavy-ass trigger too. Buy a Savage instead.

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## BRADS

> Meh, last Tikka I used was grouping 3-4" at 100! Heavy-ass trigger too. Buy a Savage instead.


Sounds pretty standard for anything sako or tikka :Have A Nice Day: 


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## cambo

> At the risk of you not seeing the recent replies  @cambo How are you going with this ?


I haven't had it out for a while. Been far too busy trying to get our house painted. I plan to do some reloading for it very soon, so I can get out and do some testing.

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## Gibo

> Meh, last Tikka I used was grouping 3-4" at 100! Heavy-ass trigger too. Buy a Savage instead.


You must just be a shit shot. And its a small task to get the trigger chirped up

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## GravelBen

> You must just be a shit shot. And its a small task to get the trigger chirped up


Funny cos I was shooting around 0.5" with my own rifle the same day... 

The Tikka's owner got 4" with it and I got 3.5", so I told him to make sure all the screws were tight and try some different ammo. Not sure if he's got it shooting better yet or not, he was gonna use the rest of that ammo for bush hunting. Still don't know why people rave about the things, there was nothing special about it - just another average mid-range rifle.

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## Gibo

Sorry bro i forgot the  :Psmiley:  on the end. But yeah they are better than that in the right hands

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## BRADS

> Sorry bro i forgot the  on the end. But yeah they are better than that in the right hands


Bro I have a video of how well your tikka shoots, want to see it?


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## BRADS

> Funny cos I was shooting around 0.5" with my own rifle the same day... 
> 
> The Tikka's owner got 4" with it and I got 3.5", so I told him to make sure all the screws were tight and try some different ammo. Not sure if he's got it shooting better yet or not, he was gonna use the rest of that ammo for bush hunting. Still don't know why people rave about the things, there was nothing special about it - just another  heap of shit rifle.


Fixed


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## Gibo

> Bro I have video of how well your tikka shoots, want to see it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah why not, then i'l play the video of 70mph winds ha ha. Who pulled your chain anyway!!!

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## BRADS

> Yeah why not, then i'l play the video of 70mph winds ha ha. Who pulled your chain anyway!!!


10mph bro! FFs next thing you'll be claiming it was 600 yards and not 60!


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## Gibo

Ha ha piss of ya hua! I do recall hitting every gong with the 6. Fuck all too. What did you hit?

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## BRADS

> Ha ha piss of ya hua! I do recall hitting every gong with the 6. Fuck all too. What did you hit?


Fark all bro my scope fell off :Have A Nice Day: 
Blaser is the new tikka they tell me anyhow :Have A Nice Day: 


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## Gibo

When are you getting your barrel back?

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## BRADS

All here ready bro :Have A Nice Day:  @Gibo you forgotten that after missing with your tikka you carried a Remington  all weekend?


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## Gibo

Yeah and you then scared the deer away before they got rolled ha ha

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## BRADS

> Yeah and you then scared the deer away before they got rolled ha ha


That is not how I remember it.....and there's witnesses bro! 


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## Toby

Yeah I agree with brads, I remember 10mph winds at 60yrds but the tikka .270 wasn't up to the to the task  :Psmiley: 

I too also remember a certain .308 being used for the rest of the weekend  :Grin:

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## Gibo

> Yeah I agree with brads, I remember 10mph winds at 60yrds but the tikka .270 wasn't up to the to the task 
> 
> I too also remember a certain .308 being used for the rest of the weekend


Well i remember you sleeping on top of a hill and us leaving you there  :Have A Nice Day:

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## BRADS

> Well i remember you sleeping on top of a hill and us leaving you there


We all remember you sleeping with Dundee to bro but have chosen not to bring that up.


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## Gibo

He remembers it too, be a first  :Wink:

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## Toby

> Well i remember you sleeping on top of a hill and us leaving you there


Not the first time that. Wont be the last. I'm a tired cunt alright  :Grin: 

Still not as shamefull as owning a tikka though  :Psmiley:

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## BRADS

> Not the first time that. Wont be the last. I'm a tired cunt alright 
> 
> Still not as shamefull as owning a tikka though


Herpes would be better than owning a tikka 


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## Gibo

I just bought another one too  :Grin:  in 243

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## Toby

You better be joking!

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## Gibo

Perfect for the long shots at brads  :Grin:  wind will grab it, do a complete cirle then smack the deer in the arse

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## BRADS

> Perfect for the long shots at brads  wind will grab it, do a complete cirle then smack the deer in the arse


The last word there is Key for describing you and your gun :Have A Nice Day: 


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## Toby

You need to see a doctor. There HAS to be something wrong with you

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## Gibo

There is. Docs cant do a thing bout it

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## veitnamcam

595 or t3?

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## Gibo

> 595 or t3?


My 243? It was a troll  :Grin:

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## veitnamcam

:36 1 5:

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## Gibo

> 


I was alone and cornered by those Hawkes Bay weirdo's, I crumbled under pressure  :Sad:

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## Toby

We're the weirdos? We're not the ones who own tikka .270s and think owning a tikka .243 is funny  :Psmiley:

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## Gibo

> We're the weirdos? We're not the ones who own tikka .270s and think owning a tikka .243 is funny


Do you have a rifle thats double grouping? If not zip it  :Grin:

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## cambo

Pulled the action out of the stock to have a look at what's what in there.
Didn't see any marking that would indicate the recoil lug was moving about. But what I did see is the recoil lug in the stock is only plastic. The only alloy/metal in the stock is the pillars for the action screws. I doubt they are doing much apart from stopping the action bolts crushing the stock when doing up.
Plus the stock is very noticeably flexible when the action is out. 
I think I might just get another stock as I think doing anything to this Hogue stock will just be a waste of time.

So I'm now on the scrounge for a better stock.  Like the look of the Boyds Pro Varmint stock. Haven't seen much else out there for the Howa rifles unless it's a bull barrel, and my rifle isn't.
Suggestions much appreciated.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Toby

When I chose howa to do my 6.5AI I just brought the barreled action and ordered a stug carbon fiber stock. That was the easiest way around a poo factory stock.

Maybe talk to stug and see how long it'll be, think theres a bit of a wait but thats one option for a better stock there

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## scottrods

I doubt thats an option for Cambo. Stug's stocks may be good but a bit on the expensive side.

Cambo - what about a bell and carlson? Bell and Carlson Sporter Stocks - Weatherby VG/Howa | Red Hawk Rifles

I got my B&C from here for the remmie.

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## cambo

Really like this....
6505-42 Weatherby VG/Howa 1500 SA Medalist Stock Black with Red Web | Red Hawk Rifles

Or this
PRO VARMINT HOWA® 1500 SA FBC BLK TXT F | Custom Hardwood Gunstocks | Boyds Gunstocks

Just have to figure out to slip something past the eagle eyed Mrs. 
New LED light bar turned up today. oops  :Have A Nice Day:

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## cambo

Well, just got back from the range.
Had a go shooting from sandbags instead of the bipod. All shots fired at 100m.
Straight away the groups were very tight. Fired a few factory rounds to see what was happening then switched to my reloads.
Definately the stock which caused my original double grouping problems. Obviously too much flex when using a bipod causing pressure on the barrel etc
With shooting from sandbags this time, it has reinforced the need to throw the Hogue stock away and fit a much better stock.

Had to do a ladder test as I'm just working out the loads for the rifle now. Using 140g Nosler BT and ADI AR2208 powder. Seated the pills a bit further out (2.90") which is just Ok for feeding from the mag.
Started at min load (39.5g) and worked up to 42.0g which was just below max load (42.2g).

Fired 3 shot groups apart from a couple of 4 shot groups (just because I loaded up a couple of spares). Left the barrel to cool down in between groups. 
No pressure signs at all, but the bolt was a bit firmer to open on last few rounds.
Very happy with the min load so far.  Was the tightest of the groups. As the powder load increased so did the spacings. 
Best was 39.5g and 40.0g so I might do some fine tuning around those loads.

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## Gibo

If its adi's max you are working from you may get away with going higher and find another node. Mines a few grns over adi's max with no signs  :Have A Nice Day:  be safe though aye bro  :Wink:

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## cambo

As the bolt was starting to get a bit firmer to open on the last few shots I probably don't need to load any hotter.
Plus the better groupings were near the lower end. So I'll play around with loads nearer to them. Might adjust seating depth a bit as the rounds were feeding OK but not real nicely. I'd like to get that better.

I'm happy that I have been able to get to the bottom of the double grouping though.

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## northdude

Fastest isn't always the most accurate I've found with most of the of my loads the bottom end of the scale is where the best accuracy is

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## cambo

Too true Northdude.
I've not chrony'd any rounds I've loaded so far out of all my calibres that I load for. 
Only ever worked towards accuracy. Tested till I found the sweet spot and stayed with that.

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## northdude

22 hornet is the one that seems to get more accurate with speed

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## rambo-6mmrem

Id also try it off bags some rifles just hate bi pods my brothers howa wouldn't shoot off a pod neather will my mates browning x bolt shoot sweet off bags though

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## Gibo

> Too true Northdude.
> I've not chrony'd any rounds I've loaded so far out of all my calibres that I load for. 
> Only ever worked towards accuracy. Tested till I found the sweet spot and stayed with that.


I take it you dont shoot past a couple of hundred yards. You are right speed doesnt mean too much in there

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## cambo

> Id also try it off bags some rifles just hate bi pods my brothers howa wouldn't shoot off a pod neather will my mates browning x bolt shoot sweet off bags though


Shot off sand bags this time. Made all the difference.
The stock is too flexible and can't handle the bipod. 
I'm looking at getting a much better stock for it now.

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## cambo

> I take it you dont shoot past a couple of hundred yards. You are right speed doesnt mean too much in there


Occasionally I do take them out to as far as I can just for shits and giggles.  :Have A Nice Day: 
Had my 223 hit the gongs at 600m no worries. Haven't had the 7mm08 on the gongs yet, but will do.
They are hunting rifles not LR rigs though. Got them set up nicely for the hunting I do. But I do like to see what I can achieve with them on gongs.

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## Sasquatch

> Shot off sand bags this time. Made all the difference.
> The stock is too flexible and can't handle the bipod. 
> I'm looking at getting a much better stock for it now.


I've recently done a Howa build in .308, like you cambo I eventually ditched the houge stock and replaced it with a Bell & Carlson one. Groups shrunk significantly & makes no difference shooting off bags or a pod.



Absolutely love this rifle & despite it's bulky appearance is surprisingly light...

Hope this helps

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## JRW87

> I've recently done a Howa build in .308, like you cambo I eventually ditched the houge stock and replaced it with a Bell & Carlson one. Groups shrunk significantly & makes no difference shooting off bags or a pod.
> 
> Attachment 34227Attachment 34228
> 
> Absolutely love this rifle & despite it's bulky appearance is surprisingly light...
> 
> Hope this helps


How do you like that mag kit?

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## Sasquatch

> How do you like that mag kit?


Really good, it's all polymer which I like. Although some people do not like. Mags feed flawlessly so far... Rifle has only had 70 rounds through it so still early days yet.

So far so good!

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## cambo

Nice rifle Sasquatch.
How do you find the mag release? That's the only thing I have heard negative reports about. Mag release is easily bumped letting mag drop out.

I'm looking at either a B&C Medalist or a Boyds Pro Varmint for my rifle.

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## Sasquatch

> Nice rifle Sasquatch.
> How do you find the mag release? That's the only thing I have heard negative reports about. Mag release is easily bumped letting mag drop out.
> 
> I'm looking at either a B&C Medalist or a Boyds Pro Varmint for my rifle.


Thanks cambo,

Mag release is rather lite, they were the only negatives I read prior to installing the Legacy Arms kit. Relatively easy solution to this is to tighten the spring or get a smith to make a strong replacement for it and that will fix the easy drop out problem. So far it hasn't been a problem for me, feels just right.

Both stocks are very good stocks.

All the best you won't be disappointed

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