# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  I may need a shotgun - Advice?

## GMH72

Hey guys,

After a bit of advice please. I think I need a shotgun  :Have A Nice Day:  but after something cheap say around $750. So have been looking at second hand semi autos and the main use will be clays and maybe a duck or two when the opportunity comes. Looked at the cheap Akkar ones in H&F but thought maybe a better quality second hand one could be a better choice.

I have been looking so far at Fabarm as a friend has one and likes it and some seem to sell at a reasonable price I also notice a couple people on here have mentioned good things about them. What should I be looking for when buying second hand and does anyone have anything?

I see TM has Fabarm listed but not sure on that model and what to compare it with. Fabarm Euro S 12 Gauge Shotgun | Trade Me

Have seen a few listings for H4 and the H368 etc.

I am in no rush so happy to keep looking but though it might be good to have some advice.

Cheers
Daniel

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## Josh

The ATA semis are quite nice - something like this. ATA 12G Auto Cent Syn/soft Duck 28" M/C - picture, come.the, ata, century, one, best, guns, ... - Serious Shooters

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## Toby

My cousins ATA keeps breaking its charging handle some how. Middle of shooting it just snaps off. Has done it twice now. Both in the same spot, could be a design flaw

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## JoshC

Nothing wrong with the fabarms mate.

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## mikee

S/H skb or Miroku would be a good deal. 1/4 and 1/2 chokes

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## Banana

Stoeger M3000
12ga Stoeger 3000 Synthetic * Choose Barrel Length*

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## Vapour

Mossberg 930 come up now and then for cheap

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## Micky Duck

> S/H skb or Miroku would be a good deal. 1/4 and 1/2 chokes


or lamber or bakail all make very very nice U/O or SxS ......to shoot mainly clays and the odd duck or 12 thay will all do the job nicely, you don't NEED a semi to do the task you have set.

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## mikee

> or lamber or bakail all make very very nice U/O or SxS ......to shoot mainly clays and the odd duck or 12 thay will all do the job nicely, you don't NEED a semi to do the task you have set.


yep agreed  100% (and picking up empties gets tiring fast shooting clays), but you don't want more than 1/2 choke if you are gonna shoot steel (and 3 inch chambers as well)

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## kotuku

An akkar will do everything you want at a bloody sensible price. dont listen to all the shit about turkish guns -its just that shit.suggest you go U/O

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## lophortyx

turks make some very good guns for the money,but breakages in the semi autos,especially the earlier models are well known.if you do not know much about shotguns, a miroku u/o is a very strongly built gun with a proven design. as far as semi auto's go i have never shot with a fabarm,i have had a look at them and my impression was because of the design they had a lot of parts that could give trouble,i do not know if that holds true.my advice would be play safe and go with a gun that hold resale value- ie miroku/browning ,there are other very good guns/brands out there.if you don't know get someone experienced to help you.ie. someone who has owned and shot a number of guns.

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## GMH72

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have previously had a bit of a look online at the Stoegers thats  @Banana said and they don't seem too bad at all. Of course you can find bad shit about anything online, if you want to find it.  Have not looked at heaps so happy with all suggestions. Had to google the choke numbers but understand (now) what the 1/2 and 1/4 chokes are. Cheers

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## MAJOR F

HI Fabarms are good guns i have 2 and two of my crew have them as well none have given any trouble at all which is more than i can say for the two remijams in the crew i had a moss 930 ok gun but heavey to lug around, franchi would be a good choice as well a 712 raptor is a great semi if you can find one ,browning silver hunter is another good well made gun these may all be a little out of your price range but if your not in a hurry keep your eyes out .the turk guns seem to be getting better all the time now some of the early offerings were a bit hit and miss i have 6 turks and only one [an o/u] has had any issues so your money will get you a new one of those,that said i think as a one shottie person get a tidy b or f gun if going down the semi auto way and dont forget about o/u ers or s/s there are some very good guns around at the moment [you know where ] some down right cheap and are good seviceable guns you dont have to have a machine gun to get game and a dble just feels right, so just because your mate needs 7 shots to make up for a little apendge you dont try and handle a few and see what feels right if you are unsure what is a good buy or not just ask

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## Shootm

If you do go down the Stoeger path there is a screw on the side of the action that holds the ejector that comes loose a falls out along with the ejector. Easy fix is a bit of loctite from new.

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## MAJOR F

IM a little edgey on stoeger,s i dont own one but know of 2 that are real good and 1 that always doing something wrong i have shot them and i feel they are a little unrefined compared to say an h4[i think the h4 fabarm is a real sleeper in the semi stakes ]also be carefull about advice from sales staff some dont know shit eg [YOU CARNT KILL DUCKS WITH A 20 GUAGE ] or[THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 28GUAGE SHELL ]or a real classic and i actully called this muppet a f.....wit and he should not be allowed to breed when he informed me that[REALLY THE SIDE BY SIDE IS FOR OLD PEOPLE] he also happlie told me he was in charge of the gun dept so be carefull

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## Gerbs

I'm gonna second the Stoeger M3000.
Little brother bought one for the duck season in Invercargill. He's always been a wood/O&U kinda guy.

He. freaking. LOVES. the M3000.

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## GMH72

Thanks again everyone. I have been looking at the u/o and do like them.. few different names that pop up so bit too look in to, I feel the semis only seem to have a few brands to figure out. One semi auto that I have just seen is the Winchester Super X2, what is that like?

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## MAJOR F

hi the winne sx2 is a good gun a little heavey in my book but thats just me

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## kotuku

> turks make some very good guns for the money,but breakages in the semi autos,especially the earlier models are well known.if you do not know much about shotguns, a miroku u/o is a very strongly built gun with a proven design. as far as semi auto's go i have never shot with a fabarm,i have had a look at them and my impression was because of the design they had a lot of parts that could give trouble,i do not know if that holds true.my advice would be play safe and go with a gun that hold resale value- ie miroku/browning ,there are other very good guns/brands out there.if you don't know get someone experienced to help you.ie. someone who has owned and shot a number of guns.


 youre right of course ,and when i bought my escort ,a very kind and knowledgeable staff member said to me to always keep the bloody thing cleaned -any crap etc on the mag tube -piston will bind and bend bolt carrier rods.Ive been bloody scrupulous about this and the old girl is still chugging along. what did eventually fracture was the piston where it had had a thread machined into the body to screw the spring retaining collar on.an autopsy suggested a stress fracture of the metal ,but given it was 2nd hand when i bought it and i had a spare piston in a box given me,it was a 5min fix.
sometime after that a guy contacted me with a tidy wee escort12g s/a centennial model which hed bought for his partner only for it to go doggo --One look and bingo -bent bolt carrier bars with dirt like a westcoast coal fire grate clearly visible on the mag tube.I managed to get it back to functioning altho eventually I think she switched to a 20g due to her slight build. im a simple hunter with a taste for simple guns -less parts ,less chance of a bloody expensive malfunction!

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## lophortyx

sixty-eight years old and still going strong. that's the gun, not my truck.  when it comes to guns we all have different tastes and wants,it is a bit the same with our women and they with men???

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## EeeBees

@GMH72, I do not want to sound pedantic or anything, but I have never really understood why people automatically swerve to the semis...not for a first shotgun, anyway...my first shotgun was a secondhand Nikko O/H 12 gauge...it was cheap, heavy as a Howitzer  :Sad:   :Grin: , but it taught me how to shoot with a shotgun...I put hundreds of rounds through it birdscaring on vineyards and I always managed good rounds on clays...each to their own, I know... :Have A Nice Day:

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## GMH72

Hey @EeeBees, not really too worried if it was a semi or any other shotgun. Was shooting with a side by side the other day and really enjoyed it. Probably have looked more at semis as they the brands seem easier for me to understand. With the side by sides or o/u there is a few different names that I have never heard of and I guess has got me confused as I don't want to buy, or look at some crappy old gun that someone is trying to sell. Hope that makes sense.

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## GMH72

I actually like the look of a u/o or a side by side and maybe feel a little safer with them, with just two shells and being able to break open the action.

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## mikee

> I actually like the look of a u/o or a side by side and maybe feel a little safer with them, with just two shells and being able to break open the action.


I use one mainly because they are very easy to make safe, everyone can visually see they are safe and still very quick to get into action. 
I actually only close my gun fully once the dog is on point just before the flush. I don't have to bend over to "police" the empties. I have used all sorts from SXS, U/O and semis / pumps. Always seem to come back to the proper shotties. :Have A Nice Day:

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## Micky Duck

there is just something special about a SxS sight picture.....for bolting bunny going across your front or bird doing the same it just seems "right"
they were at pinnacle of how good they could get a hell of a long time ago...a wise man once "said if it isn't broke don't try to fix it"
same guy probably said "you cant improve on perfection"
my cabinet has a pump /SxS /o/U & old single banger with external hammer they all "fit me" which is what matters with a shottie.

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## northdude

theres a thread on here about the baikals they seem pretty good I was heading towards one but saved some more and got a versamax needed a box to run it in now it hasn't given any problems at all

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## lophortyx

if you have got a soul and a bit of romance,there is nothing like going for a stroll with the dog and having a s x s under your arm.if it is a hammergun so much the better.if after a hare or a rabbit off season, i like to take a single shot. if i am duckshooting walkup i may take the u/o.if shooting decoys with mates then its semi auto. quail/pheasants always double barrels.if i get out chukar shooting or shooting high country, a sub guage. but then i am over the top with shotguns.as i have said before if you shoot this variety and only want one shotty the benelli m2 20ga would be my choice.but if you mainly shoot ducks i would go with a semi or a good u/o.you will get used to any gun if you practise enough with it, but if you are interested in the feel and balance,its a big world out there,you can look forever for that perfect gun.it is fun,(and expensive) trying.

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## MattyP

I like the look of the nice O/U's people use clayshooting. However, I went with a semi for mine just because I wanted a "1 shotgun does it all" kinda thing. Yeah, a breakbarrel does too I guess, but i'm sure i'll appreciate those 7-8 loaded rounds at some point!

Would really love one of those sexy O/U's one day....but doubt i'll get it past the wife! Haha.

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## GMH72

Hey guys I have still been looking around... still leaning towards a semi-auto mainly because I still do not know what I am looking at with the double barrels. Quite like the look of the Fabarms and some have come up on TM at OK prices. What is this brand & model of O/U like Under Over marocchi gardone vt brescia | Trade Me. And is the price reasonable?

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## Pointer

lower to middle grade Italian maker, if it's multi choked it's not bad buying  if it is in good nick and it fits you.

Don't see many multichoked guns at that price

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## MAJOR F

I got a marocchi like that 2nd hand in 81 it was my first shottie called game king in some markets and sm 57 in others it has been a good gun and done a shit load of work i still have it but its getting tired now the odd dble firing and a sticky ejecter must get her out of the safe and fix her one day, it would do the job but i think you would be better off with a multi choke gun gives you more options ,just a note was in pnorth yesterday and h&f had a new fabarm h4 on sale at$999 not bad buying at all

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## Wirehunt

By day with the dogs and claybirds it's the sxs, spotlighting the auto off the bike.  ATA for the auto. Swear by them, wore one out so bought two more. A mate also uses one and these are our work guns. All 20 gauge.

You can spend a shitload on a shotgun but if it doesn't fit YOU then your pissing into the wind. So spend another  $100 and get a smith to fit it to you.
Myself I shoot best with a shorter stocked gun.

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## 00 buckshot

Hi gmh72, my advice go along to a clay target club there you will able to find out what you need, ask some questions, they will help you with allsorts of information you never know you may get a good gun from one of the members

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## GMH72

Thanks to everyone that took the time to comment. I did prefer the look of an over and under but in the end I went with a semi automatic. Hasn't turned up yet but looking forward to getting my hands on it. I bought a Fabarm H68. Little bit more than I wanted to spend but very happy with the price paid.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## GMH72

Well it turned up and very happy with it  :Thumbsup: 

I cycled some dummy rounds through it to get the feel for how it works and pretty happy with it all. 

I have a question about cleaning the barrel, is it similar to a rifle? Run brush through and patches with solvent, dry patches and then light oil? Or is it slightly different as there is no rifling?

Thanks

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## Timmay

People clean guns?

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## MAJOR F

Good for you, ive got one of those great guns your cleaning ideas sound fine just remember to keep the gas area clean ,piston etc

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## GMH72

Haha, yeah I heard some people did so thought I might see what the fuss was about.

Thanks MAJOR F  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Wirehunt

Internal barrel I never clean, but action and magazine YES keep them clean if you want reliable.

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## kotuku

sit yourself down with the handbook or better still google  some videos on how to strip and clean the beast-.OK its not neccesary to do a 100%strip every outing but if ,as will inevitably happen you drop it in the drink or it lands in a shitty pile of mud leaves animal shit bloody etc etc etc-or ya favourite dog pisses on it(dont laugh-I did when a mates  $$$$$ big time italian12g semi got christened by his old half deaf lab)you want to meticulously clean crap out of every nook&cranny.
dog piss and hot guns are not a perfumers dream-nor should iimagine that good as a steel protectant!
 from the photo id be fairly confident its a similar disassembly routine to my escort.best of luck anyhow and happy shooting

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