# Outdoors > Outdoor Transport >  The great petrol vs diesel debate

## Smiddy

Right pretty set on getting a hiace, the later model 5th generation 2004 onwards with either 2.7 petrol or the 3.0l turbo diesel 

What's going to be cheaper to run???? At current the missis is putting $50 every couple of days in our Honda oddesy somethimes she has to goto town upto 4 times a day at 30min for return trip 

Service costs won't be an issue, neither will rego, the costs coming out of our pocket will be RUC + diesel or petrol 

I am leaning towards the 2.7 petrol but undecided .... Looking to spend 25k


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## JoshC

Probably petrol, unless you're doing 40,000 - 50,000 kms per year in it.  After then diesel seems to be a cheaper option. The petrol 2.7 is a pretty good motor. Plus the 5th generation diesel Hiace runs a 1-KD doesn't it, so it will not be immune to the pricey injector issues the hilux can get. I didn't have much change left over from $10k when my 1KD imploded. That money would have bought a lot of petrol  :Grin:

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## Gibo

RUC is a killer now

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## SiB

A 'faulty' lead from your sender unit helps reduce RUC I've heard.

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## Pointer

Funny this would come up as I just crunched the numbers this morning. I was looking at a petrol powered patrol to replace my diesel one. Comparing rego, RUC and enough gas for 30,000 km annually, facoring in less service costs for the petrol and no RUC, the 4.8 petrol patrol would still cost me basically double to run per annum. To get a petrol 4x4 to the equivalent costs of running my TD42T the petrol would need to see fuel consumption in the vicinity of 7-9 liters per hundred km, which is basically a suzuki. Diesel is still cheaper at this point.

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## gadgetman

> Funny this would come up as I just crunched the numbers this morning. I was looking at a petrol powered patrol to replace my diesel one. Comparing rego, RUC and enough gas for 30,000 km annually, facoring in less service costs for the petrol and no RUC, the 4.8 petrol patrol would still cost me basically double to run per annum. To get a petrol 4x4 to the equivalent costs of running my TD42T the petrol would need to see fuel consumption in the vicinity of 7-9 liters per hundred km, which is basically a suzuki. Diesel is still cheaper at this point.


What is the fuel consumption like on the 4.8?

If you have a modern efficient modern diesel then the RUC's are pretty close to your fuel running cost. Looking at a Mercedes Sprinter I get 8.7l/100km and with fuel around $1/l that is $87/1000km fuel and $63/1000km RUC. Make sure that you use the relevant l/100km figure to start with for each vehicle for both fuel types. The diesel cycle is inherently more efficient.

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## 223nut

> RUC is a killer now


Ain't that the truth, just brought another 10K $620, ouch! And I did an oil change and filter, there goes another $120...

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## Timmay

> Funny this would come up as I just crunched the numbers this morning. I was looking at a petrol powered patrol to replace my diesel one. Comparing rego, RUC and enough gas for 30,000 km annually, facoring in less service costs for the petrol and no RUC, the 4.8 petrol patrol would still cost me basically double to run per annum. To get a petrol 4x4 to the equivalent costs of running my TD42T the petrol would need to see fuel consumption in the vicinity of 7-9 liters per hundred km, which is basically a suzuki. Diesel is still cheaper at this point.


To be fair anything is cheaper to run than that 4.8lt Petrol Patrol.

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## Ingrid 51

Had a 2011 diesel Hilux. Went well with the common rail turbo motor. Trouble was I bought a 'runout model" (2005-2011) and it still needed injector seal replacement every 3rd or 4th service. Cost was abut $1k for the regular service including injector seals, so flicked the vehicle. Bought a 2016 2.4 petrol Grand Vitara that goes everywhere I want it to. Computer shows 9.6 litres/100 vs estimated 11 litres/100 for the hilux.

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## GravelBen

Bit of an apples/oranges comparison, but my 2.0 twin turbo Legacy GTB and 3.2td Terrano work out pretty similar $/km comparing petrol cost with diesel+RUC. The Subaru is more reliable and cheaper to maintain though.

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## Mathias

Like JoshC said, unless you are doing 40K plus a year, then petrol would be cheaper. Diesel rego did come down a bit a year or two ago which helped, but the RUC seems to creep up.

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## sako75

> Ain't that the truth, just brought another 10K $620, ouch! And I did an oil change and filter, there goes another $120...


Holy cow I'd do that in 2.5-3 months. Even at 6c a km adds up pretty quick

Electric cars are in for a shock one day

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## 223nut

> Holy cow I'd do that in 2.5-3 months. Even at 6c a km adds up pretty quick
> 
> Electric cars are in for a shock one day


I only do 10-15k / year in the old girl, she has been semi retired. Though those kms are usually not very easy driving ones

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## JoshC

> Holy cow I'd do that in 2.5-3 months. Even at 6c a km adds up pretty quick
> 
> Electric cars are in for a shock one day


At the moment I'm buying 7500 diesel kms a month.  :Sad:

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## Simon

Put "petrol versus diesel calculator nz" into google.
There is a really good spreadsheet on the Welcome to the Ministry of Transport website | Ministry of Transport website that works it all out.
Diesel is cheaper for large cars where a petrol motor in the same car would be chugging it back.
Diesel cars are however more expensive as is the servicing.

In my case it would take about 3 years at 15000km per year before I would start saving money taking into account the extra cost of the car and the higher service costs.

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## Smiddy

> Factor in towing, and forget petrol.  'Nuf said...


I have a D21 Datsun for towing, the van is for my army of kids 


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## Ryan

I would be driving diesel if RUC wasn't such a disincentive to owning anything bigger than a VW Polo 1.1 TDi.

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## gimp

I feel like a lot of the calculations for "petrol is cheaper" don't take into account the fact that diesel can be found for 30c/L cheaper than the big petrol station price at truckstops, McKeowns etc.

My box-shaped 3.4 litre diesel 2 ton Landcruiser with 31" all-terrains is cheaper to run on fuel and RUC than my 1.6 petrol Corolla. Servicing and parts costs no, but the Corolla couldn't get me up the Rangitata so not really relevant to compare anyway.

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## Mathias

> the van is for my army of kids 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Smiddy, buy the 2.7 petrol van then get a vasectomy. That way you won't need to trade later for a diesel bus  :Grin:

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## Smiddy

> Smiddy, buy the 2.7 petrol van then get a vasectomy. That way you won't need to trade later for a diesel bus



Lol


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## 199p

not sure about pricer but my t/d ute and dads t/d pajero  go a shit load better then the v6 Surf he had.

Start towing anything and there is even bigger difference

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## Maca49

> A 'faulty' lead from your sender unit helps reduce RUC I've heard.


Mine switches :ORLY:

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## veitnamcam

> Mine switches


Thats what puts me off buying a second hand Diesel, once bitten twice shy.
With the good ol kiwi tradition of roaduser tax fraud I think I would trust a jap import odo more than a NZ new one.

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## Munsey

With out the number crunching my experience tells me if you are towing get a Diesel . Reinforced by having to split the fuel bill on recent trip to Omaru  in mates 4x4 petrol ute @ $280 (flat easy strait road & he drives like a nanna ) My hilux at worst case is $160.

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## Sideshow

> I feel like a lot of the calculations for "petrol is cheaper" don't take into account the fact that diesel can be found for 30c/L cheaper than the big petrol station price at truckstops, McKeowns etc.
> 
> My box-shaped 3.4 litre diesel 2 ton Landcruiser with 31" all-terrains is cheaper to run on fuel and RUC than my 1.6 petrol Corolla. Servicing and parts costs no, but the Corolla couldn't get me up the Rangitata so not really relevant to compare anyway.


And here Gimp has hit the nail on the head!
It's a lifestyle choice just as much as a practical choice.
I'd not go back to a small car thats for sure. Have a friend that is head of Bosch diesel in Germany.
He said that they had taken there eye off the ball concerning diesels and the environment.
But they are definitely back on track with cleaner more efficient products coming through diesels are here to stay boys!
 :Thumbsup: 
So the question is if the diesels become cleaner than petrol would you see the drop in this km tax? Himmm I'm not sure

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## veitnamcam

> And here Gimp has hit the nail on the head!
> It's a lifestyle choice just as much as a practical choice.
> I'd not go back to a small car thats for sure. Have a friend that is head of Bosch diesel in Germany.
> He said that they had taken there eye off the ball concerning diesels and the environment.
> But they are definitely back on track with cleaner more efficient products coming through diesels are here to stay boys!
> 
> So the question is if the diesels become cleaner than petrol would you see the drop in this km tax? Himmm I'm not sure


I thought they were cleaner? less greenhouse gasses etc?

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## Sideshow

> I thought they were cleaner? less greenhouse gasses etc?


Yep but bad for the health if you inhale the fumes :Wtfsmilie:

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## Pointer

> To be fair anything is cheaper to run than that 4.8lt Petrol Patrol.


Yep, a v8 commy is more economical... in fact a club sport would save me me 3k a year in fuel compared to the troll!

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## gadgetman

> I would be driving diesel if RUC wasn't such a disincentive to owning anything bigger than a VW Polo 1.1 TDi.


The smaller the diesel the worse it is. The lowest bracket is 6T now for RUC. Basically the more efficient your type of vehicle the less attractive diesel is.

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## gadgetman

> Yep but bad for the health if you inhale the fumes


A lot worse with the carbon monoxide poison from a petrol.

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## Nickoli

Cannot understand why a van or ute attracts a higher RUC rate than the equivalent SUV ... and it pisses me off.  :Pissed Off:

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## Gibo

> A lot worse with the carbon monoxide poison from a petrol.


You have the same risk with Diesel if exposed

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## longrange308

The petty ones are gutless 
Diesel ones don't have injector probs, manly see egr probs for getting putted round town
Have a couple I see that have 400+ks 
If I had to pick I'd go diesel at least if you load it up you will be able to hit 100kph

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## gadgetman

> You have the same risk with Diesel if exposed


Diesel doesn't produce carbon monoxide, but wouldn't want fumes from either of them. But the petrol produces an odourless poison.

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## Gibo

You might want to review that statement
We CO test both LPG and Diesel forklifts at work

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## gadgetman

> You might want to review that statement
> We CO test both LPG and Diesel forklifts at work


Well it is a great deal lower in CO. Well over an order of magnitude difference. As I said, I wouldn't want to suck on the exhaust of either.

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## gadgetman

> van or utes at considered commercial so higher charges same as acc charges .


A van full of seats and registered as a private vehicle has lower registration price than a freight van because of it

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## Nickoli

> van or utes at considered commercial so higher charges same as acc charges .


It's extortion: you drive a Hilux & pay higher RUC or drive a Surf & pay less... same vehicle, different body style.... same wear & tare on the road.... still pisses me off :Pissed Off:  :Pissed Off:

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## Smiddy

> The petty ones are gutless 
> Diesel ones don't have injector probs, manly see egr probs for getting putted round town
> Have a couple I see that have 400+ks 
> If I had to pick I'd go diesel at least if you load it up you will be able to hit 100kph


The 2.7 petrol? 149hp?


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## veitnamcam

> The 2.7 petrol? 149hp?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My workmate has a 2.7 petrol 2wd hilux, he finds it pretty economical and enough grunt to trailer his drift car.

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## Pointer

Used to have a 2.7 petrol as a work truck. Went well, wouldn't call it gutless.

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## gimp

> The 2.7 petrol? 149hp?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only just more than a 1.6L Corolla!

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## longrange308

> The 2.7 petrol? 149hp?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Take one for a drive you will see, diesels have torque 
 Bit like how many petrol diggers or dozers are there 

Mite be all g when you pop to the dairy but load the tribe in and shoot over the pass and wonder why you have to carry some spare fuel

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## Smiddy

Trying to find a late model hiace with decent seats in the back is hard work 


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## gadgetman

How many seats do you want?

Toyota Hiace Wagon 2002 | Trade Me

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## 223nut

> Trying to find a late model hiace with decent seats in the back is hard work 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The old man keeps the last row of seats out and has a rack built for 4 mountain bikes that bolts into the seat holes.

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## Smiddy

> How many seats do you want?
> 
> Toyota Hiace Wagon 2002 | Trade Me


Have seen that but am after the later model one 


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## gadgetman

> Have seen that but am after the later model one 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, the next model was a big step up in space and price. Haven't seen many with seats other than the ones fitted out here.

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## chainsaw

> It's extortion: you drive a Hilux & pay higher RUC or drive a Surf & pay less... same vehicle, different body style.... same wear & tare on the road.... still pisses me off


did not realise there was this difference ?  Can someone advise the $$ difference in RUC & ACC etc comparing a ute to suv ?

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## gadgetman

> did not realise there was this difference ?  Can someone advise the $$ difference in RUC & ACC etc comparing a ute to suv ?


RUC is the same for anything up to 6T. The ACC levy is a big part of the registration.

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## gimp

What's everyone's rego? My cruiser is like 230 a year, only 80 bucks more than the 'rolla

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## 223nut

> What's everyone's rego? My cruiser is like 230 a year, only 80 bucks more than the 'rolla


Can't remember, but sure know it's dropped a lot

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## Gibo

Think my ute was like 180 for a year

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## Rock river arms hunter

My Grand vitara does 480ks a tank which is between $120-140 to fill, pop it in 4wd and you watch the fuel gauge drop.

With the maintenance and RUCs I still think a diesel would be better for my next truck.

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## Smiddy

> Yeah, the next model was a big step up in space and price. Haven't seen many with seats other than the ones fitted out here.


Yea and the 5th generation is 40hp more in the 3.0l diesel option 


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## gadgetman

> Yea and the 5th generation is 40hp more in the 3.0l diesel option 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We have a '95 Super Custom with the 1kz and a manual transmission and to be honest I've never felt it to be lacking power. On hills that the almost empty Safari would be constantly slowing down on the Hiace would be accelerating all the way, full of family and gear and towing a transporter. Damned nice suspension as well but the 4x4 models are tough on front tyres.

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## Smiddy

> We have a '95 Super Custom with the 1kz and a manual transmission and to be honest I've never felt it to be lacking power. On hills that the almost empty Safari would be constantly slowing down on the Hiace would be accelerating all the way, full of family and gear and towing a transporter. Damned nice suspension as well but the 4x4 models are tough on front tyres.


Sounds promising.... What's the fuel consumption like 


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## spnz

Often hire the 2005 onwards 2.7 petrol hiace 12 seater low roof wide body vans, head up to Rotorua from Wellington and fill the van up with 12 people then tow a trailer with 12 mountain bikes. 

No trouble doing this, yes it's a little thirsty 3 tanks return trip welly to roto and back, the old 2.8 non turbo hiaces use to do 2.5 tanks for the same trip, love the free revving feel of the petrol and overall the newer hiace being much more comfortable on the long drive. Although leg room for the driver is average and the passenger seat is even worse most of them don't even move to adjust..

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## gadgetman

> Sounds promising.... What's the fuel consumption like 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The manual 4x4 has pretty low gearing so fuel consumption isn't great. But it doesn't matter if it is towing a trailer or not, seems to use about the same. Generally around 12l/100km. The modern engines do seem to be better economy wise but there is always the 'risk' with the flasher injection systems that cost a lot to rectify when things go pear shaped. Again, it depends on how much, how and where you drive that need to be factored into the equation.

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## 223nut

One trick with the hi ace that I have seen is putting in a set of manual front hubs, sure the cv's are still spinning but it uses a bit less fuel. Probably not worth doing unless your holding onto the vehicle for a few years

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## veitnamcam

> One trick with the hi ace that I have seen is putting in a set of manual front hubs, sure the cv's are still spinning but it uses a bit less fuel. Probably not worth doing unless your holding onto the vehicle for a few years


Cvs shouldnt be spinning if manual hub/part time 4wd.

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## veitnamcam

> What's everyone's rego? My cruiser is like 230 a year, only 80 bucks more than the 'rolla


Just done ours.

Suzuki swift 12 months $101.62
Rav4 12 months $152.05

Hilux back when I had it was just shy of 600 bucks and when I changed to the landcruiser it dropped to just over 400 bucks, i believe they have all come down since then tho and now it is relevant to the vehicles safety rating ?

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## GravelBen

Terrano 3.2td rego is $201 PA, petrol V6 one is $120.

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## oraki

> Just done ours.
> 
> Suzuki swift 12 months $101.62
> Rav4 12 months $152.05
> 
> Hilux back when I had it was just shy of 600 bucks and when I changed to the landcruiser it dropped to just over 400 bucks, i believe they have all come down since then tho and now it is relevant to the vehicles safety rating ?


91 Hilux. $186. Much better than the 600 they were hitting us with
I think 08 Triton was the same

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## gadgetman

> Cvs shouldnt be spinning if manual hub/part time 4wd.


AWD so the CV's will still be spinning. Was advised not to put on free wheeling hubs as it can bugger up the transfer system.

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## veitnamcam

> AWD so the CV's will still be spinning. Was advised not to put on free wheeling hubs as it can bugger up the transfer system.


Yep it will if awd. Only way to do it is drive with center diff locked but then you gain nothing.

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## Beetroot

I am biased towards diesels, I own three vehicles and they are all diesel, even my little run about hatch back.
I love the torque and the power you get from a turbo diesel, I drove a 1.3 petrol Toyota hatch back for a few weeks and it used more fuel and had half the power of my diesel (with is a lot older).

I think the playing field has levelled out a lot, once upon a time the petrol options in a ute or 4x4 were so thirsty, diesel was the far better option.
A friend has had a few late model AWD soft roaders for work vehicles, 2 diesels and one V6 petrol. As a sales rep he did a lot of driving, but carrying little to no load. He said the diesels were marginally better on fuel, but the V6 petrol had a lot more horsepower and was quiter.
The big difference was when towing his boat, the torque of the diesel  was a lot better for towing, and whilst the fuel consumption increased a bit, the V6 almost doubled the fuel useage.

I think you beed to asses each vehicle individually, there is no rule in which one is better. If I were in the market for a new 4x4 or ute, I'd got for a diesel as I tend to do a lot of towing, like a torquey engine and just love the rattle of a diesel.

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## gadgetman

> I am biased towards diesels, I own three vehicles and they are all diesel, even my little run about hatch back.
> I love the torque and the power you get from a turbo diesel, I drove a 1.3 petrol Toyota hatch back for a few weeks and it used more fuel and had half the power of my diesel (with is a lot older).
> 
> I think the playing field has levelled out a lot, once upon a time the petrol options in a ute or 4x4 were so thirsty, diesel was the far better option.
> A friend has had a few late model AWD soft roaders for work vehicles, 2 diesels and one V6 petrol. As a sales rep he did a lot of driving, but carrying little to no load. He said the diesels were marginally better on fuel, but the V6 petrol had a lot more horsepower and was quiter.
> The big difference was when towing his boat, the torque of the diesel  was a lot better for towing, and whilst the fuel consumption increased a bit, the V6 almost doubled the fuel useage.
> 
> I think you beed to asses each vehicle individually, there is no rule in which one is better. If I were in the market for a new 4x4 or ute, I'd got for a diesel as I tend to do a lot of towing, like a torquey engine and just love the rattle of a diesel.


That is pretty much why I'm still driving diesel. Economy wise there is nothing in it, but towing and off road the torque wins every time.

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## Smiddy

Pulled the trigger on a hiace supercustom, 1995 with the 1kz couldn't find the newer model with decent seats


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## gadgetman

> Pulled the trigger on a hiace supercustom, 1995 with the 1kz couldn't find the newer model with decent seats
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Snap, same year and all. Was older than we wanted too but honestly preferred it. The suspension in the supercustom is damned good.

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## Smiddy

> Snap, same year and all. Was older than we wanted too but honestly preferred it. The suspension in the supercustom is damned good.


Yep I missed out on the one you suggested by 30mins so found one in chch with 130000kms pick it up tomo


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## Maxx

In my experience the difference between diesel and petrol servicing costs and be a material factor. If you were buying a new ute, say, then the deal Mazda offer of a capped $200 (incl GST) for routine servicing for the warranty period makes those vehicles hard to go past......

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## gimp

I reckon with the money saved on diesel vs petrol and better economy, you can probably afford to rebuild your diesel engine about every 100,000km with the savings over a petrol.

Based on $1.02 per litre for diesel and $1.90 for 91.

diesel = 12L/100km+RUC = $18.24 

petrol = 15L/100km = $28.50 

5000km = $912 for a diesel, $1425 for a petrol. 

100,000km with a diesel = $18240 in fuel/RUC, 1500 in servicing (20 filters and oils) = total cost of $19740

100,000km with a petrol = $28500 in fuel, 750 in servicing = total cost of $29250



I get around 11 or 12L per 100km with my 1985 BJ73 for a mix of town/highway use. 

15L per 100 is estimated very conservatively for a petrol truck (because I don't have one) but a quick google tells me people with FZJ80s are getting like 18-23L per 100km. My 1.6L petrol Daihatsu  Rocky ran at around 15L per 100, on 96, which was painfully expensive on a road trip. I took it from Invercargill to Cape Reinga and back once and ouch.

Far as I can tell most other stuff (parts) costs the same. When something goes wrong on the diesel, it goes more expensively wrong, but there's also less to break.

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## scottrods

I chose to buy a 2006 Petrol Prado, 4.0L 5speed auto over a 2004 in Diesel, similar ks on the odo. 
The reasons - the 1KD engine is a dog. $450 for seats and seals service every 45,000kms would be every 18mths to me. 
diesel - Higher service cost with more oil and more expensive filter. More frequent - every 10,000kms. RUCs, and higher Rego. 12L/100km.
2004 - 4spd box. 173PS, 410Nm.


Petrol - 15,000 km service interval. Half the service price. No RUCs. Half the Rego cost. Economy 15L/100kms.
2006 - 5 spd box 240PS, 377Nm.

My daily commute is 48kms round trip. If I don't go on hunting trips, my weekly fuel bill is no more than my diesel surf was, about $75.
However, when towing, it really sucks. The diesel would have been much better for economy.

But the power at the lights, acceleration is brilliant, and wow betide the rice burner who comes up behind me and thinks I should get out of his way....of course my Visa regrets it later.
That VVTi really sings at 4000rpm  :Have A Nice Day:

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## mikee

> A Toyota diesel - the modern ones anyway - are one of the exceptions to the rule that diesels are cheaper.
> 
> At one of my past jobs the hiluxs of the day spent more time in the shop getting the engines rebuilt under warranty than on the road.  Ended up driving Couriers at much better opex and shitcanning the hiluxes.  I've never looked back to be fair.  The Toyota dealer's attitude was fuck**g crap, but like the local Ford outfit now to be fair (got too much market share and don't care if they piss you off).
> 
> What we are needing, is a decent tough driveline in a ute, mated to decent load carrying suspension that is tuned to give an acceptable ride along with a good powerful engine and body/chassis/internal plastic bits that don't easily fu*k out.  The PX Ranger is wayyyyy to plasticy and bits are starting to die on mine.  Also the electronics actuators and ECU systems are a joke, just had to take it back to the dealer to get the reversing sensors reprogrammed after they stopped working (apparently due to going out of calibration) - that required an hour of tech time and approx $110 to recalibrate the ECU to allow the parking sensors to work again.
> 
> That shit should not happen on a commercial vehicle - what does not help is turning up to the dealer and looking down the row of the service desks and counting 15+ people of which only about 6 are appearing to be actively doing something productive.  I suspect I will be going to a new service outfit very shortly, I have one lined up who is better in every respect apart from the coffee served.  And at half the price!!!



I hear ya. I have 2 diesel Vehicles a 93 Pajero SWB and a 2009 BT50.  The pajero has done 240K , never been babied and drowned twice, and apart from a wee gearbox repair and servicing costs me nothing but RUC and diesel and always starts / runs the other "thing" cost 36,000 second hand and has done 117K and cost in repairs so far is $11,000. Now we purchased a 3 year warranty when we brought it and another when the original warrenty expired so this cost has been met by them. The ironic thing is this was the most I have ever spent on a vehicle, the most we have ever spent on preventative maintenance and the lowest KM vehicle I have ever brought but over the 4 years we owned it would have crippled us if not for the warrenty (and thats another story)

Now I reckon it would not matter weather it was a Mazda, Toyota , Nissan or ............................................  we would have same issues. One of my mates upgrades just before the warrenty expires on his new ones as he reckons he could not afford to fix one out of warrenty with even a simple "few thousand dollar" repair

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## Shearer

Diesels will become more economic to run than petrol the larger they get as the RUCs become a much smaller part of the running cost.
My wife has a 1.6 turbo diesel sedan which has wonderful torque and runs on the smell of the proverbial oily rag but she pays just as much in ROC as she does for diesel!
I was looking at some specs on petrol/diesel vehicles the other day and in one model, the 2.0 litre turbo diesel produced TWICE the torque of the larger petrol version at much lower revs and peak torque was spread over a 1000 rpm band right at the rev range you need it. No need to thrash them to accelerate quickly.

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## 223nut

> Diesels will become more economic to run than petrol the larger they get as the RUCs become a much smaller part of the running cost.
> My wife has a 1.6 turbo diesel sedan which has wonderful torque and runs on the smell of the proverbial oily rag but she pays just as much in ROC as she does for diesel!
> I was looking at some specs on petrol/diesel vehicles the other day and in one model, the 2.0 litre turbo diesel produced TWICE the torque of the larger petrol version at much lower revs and peak torque was spread over a 1000 rpm band right at the rev range you need it. No need to thrash them to accelerate quickly.


Have the old man's 3.0 outback same grunt in his new 2.4(?) turbo diesel and WAY better economy

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## 308

I went from diesel to petrol for a different reason - I would often forget to top up my RUC and would get pinged by a cop for it so that ended up being uneconomic

A stupid reason but I'll fess up to it

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## 223nut

> I went from diesel to petrol for a different reason - I would often forget to top up my RUC and would get pinged by a cop for it so that ended up being uneconomic
> 
> A stupid reason but I'll fess up to it


I just time mine so it's needs doing when I do the oil change  :Thumbsup:

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## Boowacker

> I went from diesel to petrol for a different reason - I would often forget to top up my RUC and would get pinged by a cop for it so that ended up being uneconomic
> 
> A stupid reason but I'll fess up to it


I know it. I have 5 diesels to do and used to miss all the time. Now I put a reminder on my phone to check every 3 months. i haven't missed for awhile. Same with rego but like a birthday. :Thumbsup:

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## Beaker

> I went from diesel to petrol for a different reason - I would often forget to top up my RUC and would get pinged by a cop for it so that ended up being uneconomic
> 
> A stupid reason but I'll fess up to it


Shit, I better have a look at the Mrs wagon..... we are both crap at remembering for the rucs .....

Oh and it's a Ford kuga titanium, goes bloody well (when i get to drive it) and on a sniff of a oily rag (when I don't get to drive it)

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## Beetroot

> I hear ya. I have 2 diesel Vehicles a 93 Pajero SWB and a 2009 BT50.  The pajero has done 240K , never been babied and drowned twice, and apart from a wee gearbox repair and servicing costs me nothing but RUC and diesel and always starts / runs the other "thing" cost 36,000 second hand and has done 117K and cost in repairs so far is $11,000. Now we purchased a 3 year warranty when we brought it and another when the original warrenty expired so this cost has been met by them. The ironic thing is this was the most I have ever spent on a vehicle, the most we have ever spent on preventative maintenance and the lowest KM vehicle I have ever brought but over the 4 years we owned it would have crippled us if not for the warrenty (and thats another story)
> 
> Now I reckon it would not matter weather it was a Mazda, Toyota , Nissan or ............................................  we would have same issues. One of my mates upgrades just before the warrenty expires on his new ones as he reckons he could not afford to fix one out of warrenty with even a simple "few thousand dollar" repair


All new vehicles are potential time bombs these days. A lot of high end Japanese cars are hardly any more reliable than European ones anymore.
With consumers demanding lots of power with good fuel economy and Governments demanding stricter and stricter emissions targets, it's not surprise that something has to give.

I though about buying a newer more comfortable car for my 200km a day commute, but after doing a fair bit of research I decided I'd be better off to spend the money on my 1998 diesel hatchback that's done 350,000kms.
It barely wears out tyres, good on fuel, easy to get parts for that are cheap, doesn't shit itself everything I forget to do an oil change and the manual gearbox is pretty well bullet proof.
Will be interesting to see in 20 years time how well todays new vehicles are holding up, while they are new people are willing to shell out $2000 for new injectors or $4000 for a new gear box, but I doubt they will in 20 years time. Where as 20 year old Toyota, Nissan, Mitsi, Landrover  etc still fetch a surprisingly good price.

Some of the new technology in new cars is pretty phenomenal though, petrol and diesel cars with all the mod cons you can dream of, heaps of power and seat 5 adults, that get under 4L/100km is pretty extraordinary when you think about it.

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## Beetroot

> I just time mine so it's needs doing when I do the oil change


Wouldn't work for me, as I am almost as useless at doing the oil change as I am at buying RUCs.

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## Happy

Ive looked at everything.. Cant stand that Common Rail Rattle your balls off till its hot or 20 Kms later.

 My land Cruiser was petrol leave any diesel for dead including bro in laws amarok. 

 Probably I m a petrol head not a diesel head.

Reckon I ve found the solution .. Time ll tell .

 :Thumbsup:   

and Yep its petrol .. I probably don't do any 
where near enough mileage wise to save anything over a diesel

170 Kw is pretty cool as well.

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## Ryan

What are the torque figures?

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## Happy

> What are the torque figures?


Ha ha I wondered who d say that .. Who cares . It tows like a tow truck. 
I actually don't tow a caravan as I like to camp. 
How many four wheel drives smoke the tires in two wheel drive ?
Its petrol head heaven ............. In a 4WD 
The brand new Hi Lux I drove in diesel was not impressive.
The four year old Nissan work ute would kill it .But it rattles its tits off all day . Yay

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## Ryan

I care because I asked, not because I wanted a justification of why you bought it but because I'm curious. I don't really have any skin in the game petrol / diesel, they both have their merits.  :Have A Nice Day:

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## Shearer

> What are the torque figures?


Looks like 376 nm @ 3800 rpm (if it is the engine I think it is - 4 litre V6 petrol).
The 2 litre turbo diesel Kia Sportage (haha) produces 400nm of torque at 1750 - 2800 rpm.

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## Happy

So does my tractor its 25 years old though. (Ha ha ). It's fun to drive both

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## Ryan

> Looks like 376 nm @ 3800 rpm (if it is the engine I think it is - 4 litre V6 petrol).
> The 2 litre turbo diesel Kia Sportage (haha) produces 400nm of torque at 1750 - 2800 rpm.



170kW & 376nm is plenty usable - I'd be happy with that.

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## Beetroot

> Ha ha I wondered who d say that .. Who cares . It tows like a tow truck. 
> I actually don't tow a caravan as I like to camp. 
> How many four wheel drives smoke the tires in two wheel drive ?
> Its petrol head heaven ............. In a 4WD 
> The brand new Hi Lux I drove in diesel was not impressive.
> The four year old Nissan work ute would kill it .But it rattles its tits off all day . Yay


What fuel economy do you get out of it?
Do you notice a big increase in fuel consumption if towing?

With the costs of RUCs and Petrols often being cheaper to buy, especially second hand, if you don't do too many KMs and aren't towing all day every day, going petrol is a pretty good option for most folk.

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## Happy

> What fuel economy do you get out of it?
> Do you notice a big increase in fuel consumption if towing?
> 
> With the costs of RUCs and Petrols often being cheaper to buy, especially second hand, if you don't do too many KMs and aren't towing all day every day, going petrol is a pretty good option for most folk.


So far it's at average 12 litres per 100 kms done 8000 kms nearly  but has not been used on the Eco setting much as I Ve been playing a bit. 
My Landcruiser was 15 to 16 driving softly so it's better than that at least  I wouldn't change much as they have all the fruit

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## Beetroot

> So far it's at average 12 litres per 100 kms done 8000 kms nearly  but has not been used on the Eco setting much as I Ve been playing a bit. 
> My Landcruiser was 15 to 16 driving softly so it's better than that at least  I wouldn't change much as they have all the fruit


Bloody hell, that LC was thirsty!  
Like you said, you don't do too many Kms so the diesel probably isn't worth it.
Diesels really show their worth when you are doing a lot of towing, the extra torque and the fuel consumption really come into play.

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## 223nut

> Bloody hell, that LC was thirsty!


I'm lucky to get 8km/l in my 80series  :O O:  disadvantages of no turbo and full time 4wd

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## gimp

> Bloody hell, that LC was thirsty!  
> Like you said, you don't do too many Kms so the diesel probably isn't worth it.
> Diesels really show their worth when you are doing a lot of towing, the extra torque and the fuel consumption really come into play.


His landcruiser was a petrol FJ Cruiser I think

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## 7mmwsm

> Ive looked at everything.. Cant stand that Common Rail Rattle your balls off till its hot or 20 Kms later.
> 
>  My land Cruiser was petrol leave any diesel for dead including bro in laws amarok. 
> 
>  Probably I m a petrol head not a diesel head.
> 
> Reckon I ve found the solution .. Time ll tell .
> 
>  Attachment 74284 
> ...


I thought you were going to buy a real truck.

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## 7mmwsm

> You might want to review that statement
> We CO test both LPG and Diesel forklifts at work


Petrol exhaust fumes kill quicker than diesel.
I often catch ferrets and stoats in see saw traps. Put them on the exhaust pipe of a petrol vehicle and they are dead in about a minute. I tried once on a diesel exhaust and after about ten minutes the poor bugger was black with soot but not looking like he was going to die any time soon. A couple of minutes in a water trough "tidied him up".

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## Pointer

> What fuel economy do you get out of it?
> Do you notice a big increase in fuel consumption if towing?
> 
> With the costs of RUCs and Petrols often being cheaper to buy, especially second hand, if you don't do too many KMs and aren't towing all day every day, going petrol is a pretty good option for most folk.


 @Beetroot How much did the old girl chew through on the trip home the other day?  :Grin:

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## gimp

> Petrol exhaust fumes kill quicker than diesel.
> I often catch ferrets and stoats in see saw traps. Put them on the exhaust pipe of a petrol vehicle and they are dead in about a minute. I tried once on a diesel exhaust and after about ten minutes the poor bugger was black with soot but not looking like he was going to die any time soon. A couple of minutes in a water trough "tidied him up".



diesels run lean at idle, like 60:1 Air-fuel ratio as opposed to petrols which would be around 14:1. much more air in an idling diesel exhaust. It would be a lower AFR under load, more like 18:1 which would be around as suffocating as petrol exhaust

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## Shearer

> diesels run lean at idle, like 60:1 Air-fuel ratio as opposed to petrols which would be around 14:1. much more air in an idling diesel exhaust. It would be a lower AFR under load, more like 18:1 which would be around as suffocating as petrol exhaust


There is something strangely spooky about that knowledge @gimp.

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## 199p

I really like the balance of t/d over petrol in big utes. 

Mine has approx 620nm and 155kw atm after tune. 

Enough to take it to powercruze in November and play with some boyracers.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## Gibo

You are a boy racer  :Grin:

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## Beetroot

> @Beetroot How much did the old girl chew through on the trip home the other day?


Qutite a lot, think it does about 16mpg so 16.6 L/100kms.
A heck of a lot more than my diesel Discovery which is about 9/100kms, but tows the trailer a heck of a lot easier.
And I do like the sound of the V8.

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## Pointer

She sounded mint leaving mine with a load on  :Cool:

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## Happy

> I thought you were going to buy a real truck.


 The trade in on the new version was too good to pass up on.
 Was move nowish or lose heaps if staying put.
That Hi Lux diesel rattling its tits off turned me right off .... 
 If things go as hoping will need a larger tow vehicle and it ll be a big toy ...

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## Trout

I like the new 5.6 Nissen patrol(PETROL) 400hp,14l /100k,smooth as on the open road and the V8 sound is darn nice.In auz they get around 1000 ks /140litrs.But its hard to change from my old patrol 2000  4.2tdi witch iv had 12 yrs and now done 470000ks.Under the bonnet the things iv replaced is the alturnator, aircon pump,batterys,wheel bearings and brakes.The motor just keeps ticking over,iv never touched it/adjusting tappets to quieten down motor,doesnt burn oil and is quiet on the tracks getting close to game areas.
Only thing that pisses me off is the money iv spend on RUCs since i brought it with a 100000 ks on the clock.$22,200.00 in todays dollars.Does around 15ltrs/100 ks.Only thing in my favour is not much more in depreciation.lols Il hang onto her till i cant walk around to the bonnet and shoot off it.lols

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## gadgetman

> I like the new 5.6 Nissen patrol(PETROL) 400hp,14l /100k,smooth as on the open road and the V8 sound is darn nice.In auz they get around 1000 ks /140litrs.But its hard to change from my old patrol 2000  4.2tdi witch iv had 12 yrs and now done 470000ks.Under the bonnet the things iv replaced is the alturnator, aircon pump,batterys,wheel bearings and brakes.The motor just keeps ticking over,iv never touched it/adjusting tappets to quieten down motor,doesnt burn oil and is quiet on the tracks getting close to game areas.
> Only thing that pisses me off is the money iv spend on RUCs since i brought it with a 100000 ks on the clock.$22,200.00 in todays dollars.Does around 15ltrs/100 ks.Only thing in my favour is not much more in depreciation.lols Il hang onto her till i cant walk around to the bonnet and shoot off it.lols


I do miss my old beast.

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## Beetroot

> I like the new 5.6 Nissen patrol(PETROL) 400hp,14l /100k,smooth as on the open road and the V8 sound is darn nice.In auz they get around 1000 ks /140litrs.But its hard to change from my old patrol 2000  4.2tdi witch iv had 12 yrs and now done 470000ks.Under the bonnet the things iv replaced is the alturnator, aircon pump,batterys,wheel bearings and brakes.The motor just keeps ticking over,iv never touched it/adjusting tappets to quieten down motor,doesnt burn oil and is quiet on the tracks getting close to game areas.
> Only thing that pisses me off is the money iv spend on RUCs since i brought it with a 100000 ks on the clock.$22,200.00 in todays dollars.Does around 15ltrs/100 ks.Only thing in my favour is not much more in depreciation.lols Il hang onto her till i cant walk around to the bonnet and shoot off it.lols


RUCs are a bitch, but if you work out the fuel price compared to a petrol you will find they total fuel/running costs to be about the same.
It just feels bad walking into the post office and paying hundreds of dollars for a printed plastic thing you stick in the window.

I'd be more concerned about that fuel economy.
That's about what I get from my Petrol V8 Discovery, which I don't enjoy having to feed, not when my diesel is getting 9L/100km. 
V8 is much more fun to drive though.

We could/should start a whole thread on 4x4s/utes and what fuel consumption everyone is getting.

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## longrange308

Rolling coal is mint 
So is smoking tyres 
I have both, and both a cheap compared to shoes,Clothes 
Live it up boys

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## paddygonebush

Running a 96 surf 3rd gen in 2.7 petrol. In town its running 14L/100km and on the open road 11L/100km.

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## veitnamcam

I bought a 2wd lux with the 5le in it recently.
I wanted another ute but 3l 4wd hiluxes are stupid money considering they are all fucked.....they were all fucked when I sold mine maybe 6 years ago? and now they all have less kms  :Grin: 
It is a really hard second hand market to buy in......I was so close to ticking up a new base model 2wd hilux.....Im shit scared of buying  HP common rail with more than 100,000km on it and the money everyone is asking for low k ones(not just toyota) it makes no sense why wouldnt you buy new?
I cant afford new at the mo but most likely my next vehicle will be or very low k still under warrenty or something I can afford to dump if it shits itself....so I will be looking at either a new or a shitbox but not in the middle as too much money and too much risk.

Which poses a serious question, new vehicle losses are set to increase as wage earners (people who buy with their own money) become bloody wary of extremely high maintenance costs of relatively low km  HPDI Diesels?

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## Beetroot

> I bought a 2wd lux with the 5le in it recently.
> I wanted another ute but 3l 4wd hiluxes are stupid money considering they are all fucked.....they were all fucked when I sold mine maybe 6 years ago? and now they all have less kms 
> It is a really hard second hand market to buy in......I was so close to ticking up a new base model 2wd hilux.....Im shit scared of buying  HP common rail with more than 100,000km on it and the money everyone is asking for low k ones(not just toyota) it makes no sense why wouldnt you buy new?
> I cant afford new at the mo but most likely my next vehicle will be or very low k still under warrenty or something I can afford to dump if it shits itself....so I will be looking at either a new or a shitbox but not in the middle as too much money and too much risk.
> 
> Which poses a serious question, new vehicle losses are set to increase as wage earners (people who buy with their own money) become bloody wary of extremely high maintenance costs of relatively low km  HPDI Diesels?


I'm currently in a similar dilemma.
Do I try stick with older, more reliable vehicles that are high KMs and need small stuff replacing all the time.
Or do you go for something new, wizz-bang, loads of power and mod-cons, but when things go bad, the costs mount up very quickly.

Electronic everything vehicles are here to stay and whilst they can be annoying, most of the time they are actually hassle free.
A lot of 20 year old European (read Land Rover) 4x4s have a lot of electrics, and whilst they have many people running for their lives, many folk have had great experiences.

I think now days the home mechanic is going to have their own code scanner/reader and it'll be just as important as their set of spanners.
If you read on the Land Rover forums, the guys their can fix anything and more often than not know more about their vehicles than most car mechanics (non specialist).
I'm not saying that Land Rovers are the most amazing, reliable things on the planet. 
But folks on forums prove that a vehicle that can cost thousands of dollars to get repaired at the shop, will cost a few hundred in parts and a few hours of research and hours of your time.

I for one would never take my vehicle to a car mechanic, I have the skills to do the work myself and the ability to research a new problem as good as anyone.
Took my car for a warrant a few months back and when I went to pick it up it wouldn't start. 
The guy doing the warrant was a bit bewildered as I had just driven it in there and wasn't sure where to start. But as it wasn't even turning over assumed it was a flat battery. 
Now I'm not an auto sparky, but I know enough about my car to know that it was not a flat battery and the weird things it was doing was not a typical battery/charging problem, after about 3 mins of thinking I found that one of the main earth leads from the battery had broken, $30 and 10mins later I was on my way home again.

Not really sure where I'm going with this rant.
I think I'm trying to say that whilst you are correct that new vehicles come with a lot of (potential) issues, Hiluxs and Landcruisers from the 1990s aren't becoming anymore common and certainly aren't getting any less KMs on them.
One day you will have to jump ship to the new generation vehicle one way or another, and if you can accept that having a good understanding of the car and a good DIY attitude you can save yourself a lot of money on repairs and/or take preventative measures to stop the problems in the first place.

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## veitnamcam

> I'm currently in a similar dilemma.
> Do I try stick with older, more reliable vehicles that are high KMs and need small stuff replacing all the time.
> Or do you go for something new, wizz-bang, loads of power and mod-cons, but when things go bad, the costs mount up very quickly.
> 
> Electronic everything vehicles are here to stay and whilst they can be annoying, most of the time they are actually hassle free.
> A lot of 20 year old European (read Land Rover) 4x4s have a lot of electrics, and whilst they have many people running for their lives, many folk have had great experiences.
> 
> I think now days the home mechanic is going to have their own code scanner/reader and it'll be just as important as their set of spanners.
> If you read on the Land Rover forums, the guys their can fix anything and more often than not know more about their vehicles than most car mechanics (non specialist).
> ...


Yea  but common rail injectors are bloody expensive and you cant fix them with a laptop....so some people dont fix them and they eat the engine.

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## Manuka

A mecanic told me the other day that the main line cars are going to be built in China in the near future, and the $15-20,000 cars are going to be availabal for $10-15 shortly. They'll turn into a disposabal item, when they brake down or need replacing, you get it wreaked or crushed. 
Be sticking with petrol from now on I think. When it goes bang, it won't hurt as much. Or buy new, and replace once  warenty is getting close to running out

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## Beetroot

> Yea  but common rail injectors are bloody expensive and you cant fix them with a laptop....so some people dont fix them and they eat the engine.


Very true, but you can (and should) install another finer in line fuel filter and reduce the risk of them being buggered in the first place.
Also you can get injectors rebuilt/serviced which is a lot cheaper than buying new ones.

What you can do with your laptop is monitor the system and check for faults and if you are seeing signs that the injector/fuel pump isn't working as well as it used too, you can investigate the problem before you need a new engine.

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## Timmay

You guys are right about how late(ish) model 4wd's are crazy expensive, looking at anything post 2010 makes me weak in the knees. 
There are 2012 4wd Hilux's with *three hundred thousand K's* on the clock and they want $25k+ for them. Even Nissan Patrols are crazy money with 10ish year old models and 200,000ks and they want 60-65% of the cost of a new one!!! Makes me want to buy new but fuck spending that sort of capital, I would (should) rather invest it.

I guess I'll just drive my 97 1kzte Prado till you cant buy diesel anymore.

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## Savage1

Are the injector problems actually very common? I did the ones in mine but know nobody else that has, I sourced a set out of a wrecked vehicle with 15,000k on the clock which cost me $400, took all of an hour to change them. If I had've been buying new I would've looked to get them tested and only replaced the one that was faulty. With a bit of knowledge, research and willingness to get your hands dirty you can pick up some bargins.

Thanks to this forum, especially @longrange308 for helping to diagnose the problem.

I much prefer EFI over carburetors and mechanical injection.

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## Beetroot

> Are the injector problems actually very common? I did the ones in mine but know nobody else that has, I sourced a set out of a wrecked vehicle with 15,000k on the clock which cost me $400, took all of an hour to change them. If I had've been buying new I would've looked to get them tested and only replaced the one that was faulty. With a bit of knowledge, research and willingness to get your hands dirty you can pick up some bargins.
> 
> Thanks to this forum, especially @longrange308 for helping to diagnose the problem.
> 
> I much prefer EFI over carburetors and mechanical injection.


I think injector problems are not uncommon, but thankfully not overly expensive to fix.
It's thing like the fuel pump going which cost the big $$ to replace, or if the injectors are left in a bad state other problems occur.

The most import part of your post is "With a bit of knowledge, research and willingness to get your hands dirty you can pick up some bargins."
Whilst you may have fixed it for $400 yourself, if you had taken it to a shop they would've said you need new injectors for $2000, plus a couple of hundred in labour.
My in laws spent hundreds of dollar trying to fix a problem on their Toyota Echo, took it to multiple different Toyota garages who ran diagnostics and replaced a few different parts over the space of a year and never got it right. Brother in law came to visit and found a Youtube video showing the fix for the problem, 
5 minutes and a new relay later, never had a  problem again.

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## veitnamcam

The shaggers up to 2011 are notorious for doing seals which left unchecked lunches the entire engine.
Your engine has a good rep for reliability.
The first of the 2.8 colorados random engines had oil burning issues.
First of the new shape ranger has had a few grenade with low kms and the auto box is a weak point, know of one that locked up and sent the truck sideways with less than 1000km !

All in all it doesnt inspire confidence in spending 30-40k on a highish km one of any brand.

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## Pointer

@Trout is yours auto or manual?

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## Trout

Hi Pointer
Gearbox is auto o/d,good gearbox,never changed the oil in it yet after 13yrs.Oil still nice redy clean colour.Mind you iv never towered stuff all with it either.See a nice new white Y62 just sold few days ago.Dropped from 127ks down to 80ks to move it tho.Thats the second white patrol to drop to 80ks to move off the show room floor in the last 3years.Hmmm.Id like one with 100000ks on the clock,say 4yrs old.Gota go cheap.

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## veitnamcam

> Hi Pointer
> Gearbox is auto o/d,good gearbox,never changed the oil in it yet after 13yrs.Oil still nice redy clean colour.Mind you iv never towered stuff all with it either.See a nice new white Y62 just sold few days ago.Dropped from 127ks down to 80ks to move it tho.Thats the second white patrol to drop to 80ks to move off the show room floor in the last 3years.Hmmm.Id like one with 100000ks on the clock,say 4yrs old.Gota go cheap.


You should definitely have changed the oil in the last 13 years red blue or black!

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