# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Rifle/ caliber opinions for bush and mountain

## Steven1

Hi members. 
What's your thoughts on caliber and rifle selection for bush and mountain hunting in South Island?
For bush hunting I'm kinda leaning towards 308

For mountain hunting with potential longer shots in windy conditions the 280ai has caught my eye The 7mm caliber seems to give a good wind deflection/ energy combination and since I'd like to go unsuppressed  it kinda rules the magnums out

For rifle selection it's still a blank slate but requirements would be lightweight and stainless 

Any insights would be much appreciated Cheers

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## Hornady ELDX

300 wsm would do everything with authority

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## Pommy

The way these threads often end up, not just here, is with votes for so many different cartridges that the OP is kind of overwhelmed. That and - much like Godwin's law and Hitler - someone inevitably starts shitting on 270.

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## Hunty1

7mm08,  boring and very vanilla, but works.  284win ticks alot of boxes if you are a handloader.

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## drunk_mexican

> 7mm08,  boring and very vanilla, but works.  284win ticks alot of boxes if you are a handloader.


+1 as much as I dislike it

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## RUMPY

> The way these threads often end up, not just here, is with votes for so many different cartridges that the OP is kind of overwhelmed. That and - much like Godwin's law and Hitler - someone inevitably starts shitting on 270.


I think what @Pommy means is get a 270.

Seriously I  use a 270win and have shot deer, tahr and wallabies between 5 and 320 metres with a 3-9 scope.

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## Nickoli

> Hi members. 
> What's your thoughts on caliber and rifle selection for bush and mountain hunting in South Island?
> For bush hunting I'm kinda leaning towards 308
> 
> For mountain hunting with potential longer shots in windy conditions the 280ai has caught my eye The 7mm caliber seems to give a good wind deflection/ energy combination and since I'd like to go unsuppressed  it kinda rules the magnums out
> 
> For rifle selection it's still a blank slate but requirements would be lightweight and stainless 
> 
> Any insights would be much appreciated Cheers


....have you done any hunting before?

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## Hunter_Nick

The answer is the one you shoot best, and probably the one you already have.
Anything .243 and above will do it with careful shooting, anything above 7mm will do it will some assurance. 
If you’re new to the game and want light, do not go with anything that has magnum in the name. Something T3 weight I’d suggest .270 max, to help you place shots well. The recoil can start to get up with light rigs, and doesn’t help when you’re shooting from weird positions up in the mountains.

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## Micky Duck

.270 and suppress it...job done.  yip there might be calibres that do it better....and faster...and with less noise,recoil,terminal mess.....but few that will do it with less fuss or bother.
If I didnt own a .270  it would be either a .308 or a 30/06  for eggzachary the same reasons.
pick your load for task at hand and you simply will not look back,take out the front wheels and animals will pile up and go nowhere..... job  done.

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## 40mm

45/70 GOVT and a big lobbing sight.

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## Bill999

> 7mm08,  boring and very vanilla, but works.  284win ticks alot of boxes if you are a handloader.


Exactly what I was thinking, I have a 280rem (non Ai) and it dose no more than a 7mm08 with factory


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## Steven1

Have done quite a bit of hunting before coming over from SA, also done a good couple of trips with mates down here and it'sdefinitely a different game over here.... Had 308 and 30 06 and still have gear for reloading so getting into loading for different calibers won't take too much

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## Hornady ELDX

I have a 308 and have had a number of 270 rifles.
If i was only to have one rifle it would be the 300wsm.
Never lost an animal up to 645 yards.
Its a pussy to shoot with a suppressor. 150 to 212 grain projectiles and my accubond 180 grain gets a tad over 2920 fps. Lozt a number of animals  with the 270 as they didnt fall over straight away. 
Never ever had that with the wsm

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## Bol Tackshin

.270Win or .308Win are both great choices when using factory ammo. Many other calibres would also do the job, but factory ammunition to feed the rifle may not be as readily available at your local.

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## gonetropo

honestly 308 will do it all, massive amount of  different ammo available, can buy it at most shops nationwide as its a common calibre. yeah sure the trajectory isnt the flashest  but as an all purpose centrefire its hard to beat

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## 199p

20" 7mmremag with a can best all rounder that hits with authority can be shot with no can but at that short its very loud but recoil is fine even in a light gun just need good technique. 
generally heaps of ammo selection around

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## No.3

+1 for a suppressor. Often gives you the chance of a follow up shot...

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## jakewire

Do you want 1 rifle as a do all or do you want 2
Me, I think you should get like 6... but

It's too late now but if I was starting over again, for a large game rifle  I would buy something like a Finnlight [or other brand to suit] in 30 06 and go shoot anything I wanted to.

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## 6x47

> 300 wsm would do everything with authority


and give you a bit of a kicking unsuppressed, esp in a light rifle.

I'm sure more than a few of us have spotted near mint 300WSMs for sale "only done 20 rounds"..

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## 257weatherby

> I have a 308 and have had a number of 270 rifles.
> If i was only to have one rifle it would be the 300wsm.
> Never lost an animal up to 645 yards.
> Its a pussy to shoot with a suppressor. 150 to 212 grain projectiles and my accubond 180 grain gets a tad over 2920 fps. Lozt a number of animals  with the 270 as they didnt fall over straight away. 
> Never ever had that with the wsm


Yep, it was the fault of the cartridge........

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## 257weatherby

Any of the standard cartridges will do, no need to be magnumized, I'm good to 400 with a .243, never failed me, only have a couple of .270's just coz. If I had to have 1 rifle only, my cartridge might be 25/06 Rem. You're gonna get plenty of earfull on this subject!

I guess one aspect of your question to be considered is: are you a hunter or long range live target shooter......... :Have A Nice Day:

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## Hurricane

Ask 10 hunters, get 10 answers. 

I agree that a magnum is not necessary for your needs (I have 2, so I’m not against them). .308 is probably the best chambering for a bush pig and will run to 500m if not too short (perhaps 18”). Or 7-08, or 6.5 Creedmoor. I mention these as ammo will be easier to find if you don’t load and components will be easier to find if you do.

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## chainsaw

To help answer your question, some factors to consider. 
Do you reload? Or are you reliant on factory ammo ? If it’s factory this narrows your choices significantly. But 708, 308, 270, 3006 will get the job done. And 7mmRM and 300wsm if you fancy going magnum. 
Next is how much of your hunting is bush vs tops ? If you are mostly bush hunting then you’re probably going to want a short barrel suppressed rifle. The short action cartridges tolerate this better than long action. If you’re mostly tops hunting and you want to reach out further then long action or magnum.
Brings us to the 3rd question - how far do you intend shooting ? If it’s 500 yds or less then any will work. If 600-800 then you need more powder behind the pill than a 708 or 308. And very likely you’d need to reload with the appropriate projectiles, not always available in factory. Or don’t suit your rifle.
What you are asking for is compromise. The end result maybe something that does not do either job well.
Get a short bbl 708 or 308 for bush and a 2nd tops rifle (270, 3006, 280ai, 7mmRM or 300wsm) and plenty of other options if you reload.

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## Micky Duck

one thing Im pretty sure NEARLY everyone will agree on...if you going to run unsuppressed...then 20" or longer is definately going to be more user friendly 24-26" better still,I used a 20" .270w for many years and my hearing suffers because of it.

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## Kelton

> I have a 308 and have had a number of 270 rifles.
> If i was only to have one rifle it would be the 300wsm.
> Never lost an animal up to 645 yards.
> Its a pussy to shoot with a suppressor. 150 to 212 grain projectiles and my accubond 180 grain gets a tad over 2920 fps. Lozt a number of animals  with the 270 as they didnt fall over straight away. 
> Never ever had that with the wsm


#1 the OP said unsuppressed so makes it more like a feral cat than a kitten

#2 stop taking pop shots and learn how to track

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## No.3

Now the other approach is .338 Magnum and shoot anything you want.

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## Sideshow

Rail gun we will all be so jealous  :XD:  and I’m fairly sure there not banned :Thumbsup:

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## 7remmagman

I live in twizel and grew up in oamaru and can say from experience any caliber will work fine for the terrain you'll hint on buy an medium size (308ish doesn't really matter tho correct projectile choice is more important) and get a tikka or similar what ever you get make sure the scope is decent and don't cheap out on rings and mounts, then go kill stuff

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## Steven1

Thanks for everyone's insights. 
The ol' caliber question always seems to  open a can of worms but think I'll be good with any of the suggestions as they do seem to get the job done well enough. Always pays to get opinions of the local hunters before blindly running into it. 
Optics wise I already got a VX5 3-15 
 but may go 2-10 mag for bush setup after my roar stag encounter ... Decisions decisions

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## deer243

> honestly 308 will do it all, massive amount of  different ammo available, can buy it at most shops nationwide as its a common calibre. yeah sure the trajectory isnt the flashest  but as an all purpose centrefire its hard to beat


What he said if you want one rifle......otherwise the 243 is the ultimate bush rifle, its my go to and shot plenty of animals with it and it just works.
For the open tops etc theres a number of Cals that will do the job but if you using just one for both  the 308 will do the job out to a fair range

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## Hornady ELDX

I am not a fan of unsuppressed rifles as it fucked my hearing over 40 odd years until i saw the light.
Each to their own though its a personal choice.
Loved the comment about learning how to track though.
I have fucked knees and chronic fatigue and its an effort to walk down a steep hill hence i like animals to fall over straightaway but please feel free to post ignorant comments

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## 7.62

-suppressed 308 with 16in barrel for the bush
-braked 7mmRM or 6.5PRC with 24in barrel for the tops (and some ear plugs. Brake optional for the PRC)

-or if you want just one rifle: suppressed 308 or 7mm08 with 20in barrel

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## 7.62

> Optics wise I already got a VX5 3-15 
>  but may go 2-10 mag for bush setup after my roar stag encounter ... Decisions decisions


The 3-15 should be fine. I have a 2-12 and I use it on 3x in the bush, the optics are a bit weird at 2x in the bush for some reason so I dont have it set that low. But the 2-10 will have a weight/size advantage

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## Steven1

My dad always said  " A good tracker is a sh#t shot"

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## No.3

2-10 is the way forward in a quality set of glass.  Several times I've been too close to the animal to get a sight picture with a 4x scope - can see the eyeball of the deer by eye but looking at individual strands of hair through the scope and can't actually resolve what you are looking at to be able to identify and place the shot.  2x makes a surprising difference in that situation I found.  It sounds weird, but litterally on the other side of a toitoi bush to the deer (2m away for range) you are just too close for the scope to be of any use.  Bloody sh1tty Kaimais...

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## XR500

In this weird day and age I would say any calibre that is economic to shoot and reload, and has easily available components for. AND suppress for you and your mate's continued hearing...and that occasional follow up shot.

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## Micky Duck

> I have a 308 and have had a number of 270 rifles.
> If i was only to have one rifle it would be the 300wsm.
> Never lost an animal up to 645 yards.
> Its a pussy to shoot with a suppressor. 150 to 212 grain projectiles and my accubond 180 grain gets a tad over 2920 fps. Lozt a number of animals  with the 270 as they didnt fall over straight away. ...CAUSE I NEGLECTED TO TAKE OUT FRONT WHEELS AND/OR WAS USING WRONG PROJECTILE TYPE.
> Never ever had that with the wsm....YET,WATCH THIS SPACE....


capitals are my input LOL.
the OP wants to go unsuppressed...which is going to make it a tad more loud as soon as powder capacity gets up to or above say 60grains...... 
your .308 will push the same projectiles out slower..so a hundred yard .308 shot is same as a 3-400 from your magnum......
but horses for courses  it would be a boring world if we all did things the same way with the same stuff.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

These are such dumb threads

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## 7mm Rem Mag

223 1.8 twist will shoot everything from a mouse to a moose with good bullet placement

 :Mouse:   :Beer:

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## 7remmagman

> -suppressed 308 with 16in barrel for the bush
> -braked 7mmRM or 6.5PRC with 24in barrel for the tops (and some ear plugs. Brake optional for the PRC)
> 
> -or if you want just one rifle: suppressed 308 or 7mm08 with 20in barrel


Second this just setting up a lightweight 308 with a 20"barrel sick of lugging around the rem mag

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## 7remmagman

> These are such dumb threads


Also second this everything works, just shoot things with the right projectile in the right place

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## Bagheera

Its good to see youve started with the scope. Theres no doubt that VX 5 will cover it all and do very well.

It sounds as if you want one rifle to do both  bush and mountain hunting.
For south island bush up to 22 is fine if you dont put a suppressor on it. Youll want the length to give enough velocity for the long shots on the tops. With a single all round rifle your max range will be about 300m in NZ South Is conditions.

Regarding choice of rifle, i suggest getting a new one rather than second hand. They are still ffordable if you only buy one and you know someone else hasnt dicked around with it. NZ hunting usually involves getting it wet, often muddy, full of leaves and windblown sand, frozen, knocked about a bit.  So your stainless idea is good. A synthetic stock is best, carbon if you can afford it. Get a mainstream brand, not something unique and not the latest never heard if it before or semi custom brand.  The standard rifles to compare all others to are the Tikka T3 and the Sako 85 which both have the simple rugged bombproof design features you need in NZ.

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## timattalon

I would start with a bullet weight between 120gr up to about 180 or 200gr max, with a diameter of between .24 and .31 with a velocity of between 2700fps and 3200fps somewhere.......

I know, I know that is pretty much every centrefire in the range. A bit like saying I need an SUV, what would you suggest and getting between a Jimney to a F350.... But what ever you pick, I expect if it is not in that band, then it wont be far out of being capable of what you want. Try a few, see what you like the feel of. To be serious and honest, the one that is best will be the one that you get the best accuracy from. Everything is a balance / trade off. 

More weight = less recoil but heavier to carry versus less weight = easier carry but more recoil,  
Bigger bullet + higher velocity = more recoil, but more carried and transferred energy on impact 
Bigger recoil can mean more flinch = a potential miss and a bigger hole in the dirt beside the animal instead of in it....

My personal choice would usually be 308. Not because of any perceived shortfall of any other calibre, as I see them as all much of the same but different. But because of accuracy. Accuracy comes from practise. Practise comes from sending rounds down range (ouyt there doing it to use an unpopular phrase..) That is expensive at $5 per round / $100 per pack for the latest and greatest ammo out....but at $2 or less, practise becomes more affordable and 308 is generally one of the calibres for which there are cheaper 'practise' ammos available. If you dont want to use cheap mil surp ammo in your flash rifle, use it in one that is not as flash. Practise with any rifle counts, including rimfire....





Remember the old motor racing saying " to finish first, first you must finish"....That has a translation into 'shooter talk' To have your food to hit the table, first you must hit your food"....It wont matter how big your bullet is if you miss.

And best of all, enjoy hunting for a new rifle....

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## Pommy

So far we have votes for...

223
243
25/06
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5 PRC
270
7mm08
280ai
7mm Rem Mag
308
30-06
300wsm
338 Lapua
45/70

  @Steven1 I hope we narrowed your selection for you!

+1 270 shitter  :Thumbsup:

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## Bagheera

To add to Tims tradeoff analysis above:

 A Heavier rifle is generally easier to shoot well.

And 

Recoil depends in the ratio of bullet weight to rifle weight (and powder charge of course  :Have A Nice Day:  ).
So, you will not be able to get moderate recoil from a light rifle and a heavy bullet.
The idea of selecting an approximate bullet weight first is a good one. Unless you want a heavy rifle > 4kg all up, you will probably want to limit your bullet weight to about 140-150gr if shooting unsuppressed.

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## Fisherman

> These are such dumb threads


Maybe, certainly thought provoking if you have time, and it has to be noted that a lot of guys on here a building a new rifle every week, it seems quite hard to make a choice. Very nice problem to have tho.

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## Joe_90

> So far we have votes for...
> 
> 223
> 243
> 25/06
> 6.5 Creedmoor
> 6.5 PRC
> 270
> 7mm08
> ...


Big safe and one of each. Job done? 

Remember to get a .22 for practice too!

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## Steven1

Undoubtedly gonna be a game of trade offs then throw in the issue of some hard to find reloading components as well.
I'm quite sorted for loading 308 and 30 06 so think I'll see what suitable rifle options there are keeping in mind that the occasional longer shot may present itself.( Hence the preference for unsuppressed and longer barrel)
Not a fan of long range hunting. 350m will be my absolute max with the above mentioned calibers knowing their and my limitations. I much rather not take a shot than end up wounding an animal. Don't see much skill in long range hunting either
280ai and 7mmwsm also appeals to me due to better wind deflection,decent enough speed, good retained energy and reasonable recoil but that will be a project for later. 162gr eldx's seem unattainable at the moment which is also bit of a passion killer.

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## Pommy

> Undoubtedly gonna be a game of trade offs then throw in the issue of some hard to find reloading components as well.
> I'm quite sorted for loading 308 and 30 06 so think I'll see what suitable rifle options there are keeping in mind that the occasional longer shot may present itself.( Hence the preference for unsuppressed and longer barrel)
> Not a fan of long range hunting. 350m will be my absolute max with the above mentioned calibers knowing their and my limitations. I much rather not take a shot than end up wounding an animal. Don't see much skill in long range hunting either
> 280ai and 7mmwsm also appeals to me due to better wind deflection,decent enough speed, good retained energy and reasonable recoil but that will be a project for later. 162gr eldx's seem unattainable at the moment which is also bit of a passion killer.


Wait what? You have a 30-06 and are limiting yourself to 350m? Go load up some 178gr ELD-X and you're not going to have problems with wind in much less than an F5 hurricane.

I'm with Ryan. What a dumb thread.

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## Steven1

Sold rifles before coming to NZ so planning to start afresh in the near future. Used to shoot 180's and was real good in windy conditions. That said the longer action is most likely going to add extra weight  thats why the balance tips towards 308 but will shop around to see what rifles are available. Have shot targets out to 1.1km with them but for hunting I'd limit myself to about 350 knowing I can make decent first shot placements consistently

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## yeah_na_missed

Now wait a minute, there is one calibre on that list that is conspicuous in its absence: the trusty .222

Legend has it that 89% of deer cullers used a .222 with great success. Some may consider this to not be a suitable deer rifle, but hear me out...

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## -BW-

Threads like these only become superfluous (though remain both interesting and contentious) because of the lack of methodology used to arrive at conclusions, and are weighed mostly upon experiences and opinions. Of course one would not discount the value of experience, but experiences vary and it makes conclusions too variable and somewhat unreliable in some respects.
We could approach the question with a different method, which is already been alluded to; using the science of ballistics and the criteria of bullet weight and velocity. Select by way of known research, a minimum bullet weight, a maximum excess weight, and the minimum velocity required for that weight range, and bullet construction, to be effective. The wonders of the interweb would soon reveal a variety of calibres that all meet the given criteria. It would make choice of rifle less limiting as a result, and remain interesting.

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## BSA

If you can only have one rifle for NZ hunting then the .308W is the best all-rounder preferably with the 1:10 twist rate. My humble opinion but my personal favourite is the mighty 7x57.

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## Rock river arms hunter

Hang on


You want to shoot unsupressed to a max of 350.

And no further?

Give the man a 6.5x55 or 25-06

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## Beetroot

260rem is the only correct answer

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## caberslash

> Now wait a minute, there is one calibre on that list that is conspicuous in its absence: the trusty .222
> 
> Legend has it that 89% of deer cullers used a .222 with great success. Some may consider this to not be a suitable deer rifle, but hear me out...


Wrong, the real men used .303  :ORLY:

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## timattalon

> Wrong, the real men used .303


Still do...

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## caberslash

> Still do...


Would love to see statistics of where most newly made/commercial .303 ends up.

Suspect Canada/NZ/Oz would be top 3 in that order with the UK coming behind all of them, just like everything else  :Zomg:

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## bumblefoot

> Would love to see statistics of where most newly made/commercial .303 ends up. Suspect Canada/NZ/Oz would be top 3 in that order with the UK coming behind all of them, just like everything else


I'll take a few....  :Grin:

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## Micky Duck

who still makes a rifle chambered for the old .303 brit???? other than possibly in a custom break open,and I imagine they be few n far between.

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## Cigar

I think Ruger were still making them in the No. 1

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## hunter Al.7mm08

In my opinion the best caliber is the one your mates shoot. That way if you ever run out of ammo you can "borrow" some from them 

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## grandpamac

> who still makes a rifle chambered for the old .303 brit???? other than possibly in a custom break open,and I imagine they be few n far between.


Bumblefoot and I were drooling over one that was being imported to NZ a few months ago, Italian made from memory.
GPM.

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## grandpamac

It was a Uberti Courtney Stalking Rifle an a High Wall falling block action. Priced at $3,000.00 though and sold out.
GPM.

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## bumblefoot

Yup; I was tempted! But I decided that it was too nice to hunt with and I couldn't really justify 3k with all the work I still have to do (and pay for!) on the property. I'm actually happier that I bought my new/old girl! It suits me to the ground  :Wink:

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## bumblefoot

Actually; a mate of mine in Oz just bought a 25/303 on a Mauser 98 action

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## Tentman

If you are a reloader, then this is your era (current shortages accepted) with modern projectiles and powders enabling all "the old cartridges" to fully reach their potential . 
 . Making darlings like the x57s the equal of anything - including the Crudmoors, wsms and the like.

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## Micky Duck

and .24   .25   .27 calibre projectiles are still to be found....

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## 25/08IMP

The .257 Roberts i saw yesterday would be awesome


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## caberslash

> If you are a reloader, then this is your era (current shortages accepted) with modern projectiles and powders enabling all "the old cartridges" to fully reach their potential . 
>  . Making darlings like the x57s the equal of anything - including the Crudmoors, wsms and the like.


Until your brass or worse still, action lets go.

Trying to push a pre or worse still, war era Mauser to modern pressures will probably result in the rifle not being around for much longer.

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## The Fox

I have many calibers and shot in all sorts of places at all sorts of game. My do anything rifle is a 308 I have two loads a 150 gr spbt that shoots  zero at 100. great for the bush and out too 200 then another load 125gr that shoots 2 inches high at 100 without changing sights. perfect for long range. as I said a have many rifles but if I was only allowed one the 308 would be it for anything in nz. but you must also have a trusty 22 rimfire

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## Micky Duck

125grn .308 "perfect for long range"....has bungi been reincarnated perhaps???

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## 257weatherby

> Until your brass or worse still, action lets go.
> 
> Trying to push a pre or worse still, war era Mauser to modern pressures will probably result in the rifle not being around for much longer.


Pretty sure he meant the historic cartridge in a modern action, loaded hard, a 7x57 in a T3 would show a clean pair of heels to the 7mm08, 257 Bob could be a hot proposition too, quite appealing that one.

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## caberslash

> Pretty sure he meant the historic cartridge in a modern action, loaded hard, a 7x57 in a T3 would show a clean pair of heels to the 7mm08, 257 Bob could be a hot proposition too, quite appealing that one.


Doubt there would be that much difference, as the sacrifices made to accommodate a longer case don't add up. 

All being equal (same action, barrel length and twist rate, bullet used), a few hundred fps more (being optimistic here) will not mean much in the grand scheme of things if the rifle actually has to be carried a great distance. Cramming more powder into a case (7x57 should be about 8-10 grains more H20 capacity) won't be worth it for a marginal increase in speed unless it's just a numbers game.

The fact that 7x57 is a 'long action' cartridge, and the 7mm08 a 'short action' one, brings up the whole '6.5 CM vs. 6.5x55' debate, and unless you live in Scandinavia, the latter cartridge is not the better choice.

Good reason why people are choosing to build 7mm SAUM's instead of 7mm Rem Mags now.

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## timattalon

> Doubt there would be that much difference, as the sacrifices made to accommodate a longer case don't add up. 
> 
> All being equal (same action, barrel length and twist rate, bullet used), a few hundred fps more (being optimistic here) will not mean much in the grand scheme of things if the rifle actually has to be carried a great distance. Cramming more powder into a case (7x57 should be about 8-10 grains more H20 capacity) won't be worth it for a marginal increase in speed unless it's just a numbers game.
> 
> The fact that 7x57 is a 'long action' cartridge, and the 7mm08 a 'short action' one, brings up the whole '6.5 CM vs. *6.5x55' debate, and unless you live in Scandinavia, the latter cartridge is not the better choice.
> *
> Good reason why people are choosing to build 7mm SAUM's instead of 7mm Rem Mags now.


Please take that back....6.5x55 is a great cartridge....Especially in the likes of Howa or Husqvarna (1600)

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## Nickoli

> Good reason why people are choosing to build 7mm SAUM's instead of 7mm Rem Mags now.


....except in a little backwater called New Zealand/Aotearoa....where people can buy factory 7mmRM off the shelf...no such luck with 7mmSAUM. 
While both will do the same job - poke holes in animals from a good distance.... if you are travelling between islands and want to buy ammo wherever you end up - you have no show of finding SAUM... 
Refer to an earlier post which succinctly pointed out how stupid threads in this vein are...

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## grandpamac

Greetings All,
I think that the OP had an answer in the first few replies so the following 70 or so are just an oppurtunity to have a little fun and perhaps get some new ideas along the way. People that own 6.5x55, 7x57 and 7mmSAUM rifles often do so because they want something different, interesting or whatever. Needing to handload to get decent ammo is an advantage rather than the opposite. Needing to purchase ammunition away from home is unneccesary as this is the last thing that we are likely to forget or run out of. For those of us who don't handload the 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm-08, 7MM Rem Mag and the .308 are great choices, perhaps some more than others. In deference to Micky Duck I should include the .270 in that list as well. Each of us makes choices based on likes at the time. Each choise is right for us although sometimes regretted later. At least we have choice.
In the dim and distant past when I started cruising the gun shops choice was limited for new rifles with only around 6 commonly available cartridges. Sure there were others like the 7x61 S&H and .308 Norma Mag but these were seldom seen. A thread like this would have been over pretty quick. But there was no internet, no cell phones, GPS or range finders. It was a simpler time. Enjoy these threads but don't take them too seriously.
Regards Grandpamac.

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## bumblefoot

"Needing to purchase ammunition away from home is unneccesary as this is the last thing that we are likely to forget"

I know someone who flew into a block, unpacked and realised the bolt was safe and sound at home.... Another (a pathological liar  :Grin:   ) who arrived back to the car and told us he'd missed a couple of deer. Then we pointed to his bolt sitting on the back seat..... He never batted an eyelid, just kept up the bull shite...  :Grin:

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## gregdudehunter

> .270 and suppress it...job done.  yip there might be calibres that do it better....and faster...and with less noise,recoil,terminal mess.....but few that will do it with less fuss or bother.
> If I didnt own a .270  it would be either a .308 or a 30/06  for eggzachary the same reasons.
> pick your load for task at hand and you simply will not look back,take out the front wheels and animals will pile up and go nowhere..... job  done.


If you shoot for the front legs then a number of cartridges will do the job but if you are a meat hunter like me and go for the lungs then I would go 30/06 then 270 for the shock power. At the longer distances with anything slow your going to need a dog to find a lot of them. Just my opinion 


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## Steven1

I've been following a very worthwhile channel on youtube called "Backfire" where the guys do real world unsponsored reviews on rifles and cartridges plus loads of handy comparisons and I'm quite set on the 280ai for a mountain setup caliber as I still have reloading equipment but that'll be reserved for later. As pointed out by few members the ol 308 does tick alot of boxes for me but so does the 30 06 except for added recoil on lightweight setup. Having had a brno ZG47 in 30 06 the recoil was quite manageable but it was also a heavier rifle. Good thing was just the versatility as I loaded 220gr for close bush and 180grs for longer range work. Guess I may have to take the scientific approach and flip a coin on that. Thanks for everyone taking the time to share their thoughts and experiences, really enjoyed the feedback!

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