# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  long range 338 tests

## el borracho

Here are a few links to some intersting tests  being conducted by Lowlight off SnipersHide in the USA checking the actual  bc's from various well known manufactures -this testing came about after some great scraps between some members that are developing  and have developed  and are selling long range projectiles .This is well worth the read if long range shooting give you a chub

note there has been two phases to this test so bear with the threads or speed read at your pleasure 



338 LM Accuracy Test and Class @ Gunsite - Sniper's Hide Forums



GUNSITE XLR & BULLET TEST PHASE 2 - Sniper's Hide Forums

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## 7mmsaum

Thanks el.

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## The Claw

Those threads highlight exactly why I'm not interested in building a 338 or 375 to shoot turned solids (the ultra high BC ones that is (and it seems the BC's are pretty optimistic too...))... You need a specially crafted gain twist barrel that "should" work. If it doesn't, you are f*cked and are now the proud owner of a tomato stake... Can't shoot a jacketed projectile through them as they will tear apart...

Someone else can do the testing thanks...

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## el borracho

Yes , it has been a very interesting test for these guys and great for us all that engoy long range .What is equally as interesting is the manufactures info the is basically shite about there products BC's and ability to shoot stable projo's.
Anyone here utilizing any kit these guys are shooting and having the same results ? It will also be interesting to see if Bryan Litz chimes in on these tests as his projos dont appear to be as high up the BC Ladder as originally thought -still great projo never the less and the ones I use

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## The Claw

My 300gr hybrid BC that I use is actually higher than Brians... But then I'm launching them at 3,275fps  instead of the 2.7 -2.8k that they were testing them at. Been good for 1st round hits to 1,300m so far...

Sent from my GT-I9000T using Tapatalk

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## el borracho

Whats interesting for most of us is getting "real reliable info" from our gear .I chronny'd the other day in a cloudy day and got 2865 av and used some one elses chronny tunnel and got 2953 .I will shoot 1000 yards this weekend and see how the come ups are and decide where to from there .
Claw are you going to the gun slinger comp down your way at Tekapo ?

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## The Claw

> Claw are you going to the gun slinger comp down your way at Tekapo ?


Haven't given it any thought, when is it? Whats the format?

Edit to add: No, I won't be going. Its just after I come back from 8 days tahr hunting... Leave passes will all have been cashed in for that...

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## el borracho

Long Range Shooting in New Zealand - Gunslinger   the battle of the egos ,where super heros are humbled in front of their peirs and a great time I am sure .

I like these contests cause there are many that boast ability but are not willing to have it on disply and this particular contest goes out to 1 mile .All you long range boys nows your chance to show your stuff , of course if you dare !!!

Mind I think its full this year with around 40 people including 10 flying in from overseas

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## The Claw

> Long Range Shooting in New Zealand - Gunslinger   the battle of the egos ,where super heros are humbled in front of their peirs and a great time I am sure .
> 
> I like these contests cause there are many that boast ability but are not willing to have it on disply and this particular contest goes out to 1 mile .All you long range boys nows your chance to show your stuff , of course if you dare !!!
> 
> Mind I think its full this year with around 40 people including 10 flying in from overseas


Haha, sounds like it could be a laugh... (or being laughed at...) Not really my scene though though by the looks of the website with all that gucci gear crap & my dick is bigger than yours, chest beating talk. Rather go out hunting...

I was at Tekapo over Easter, used the range to sight in my 338 after changing scopes. Good area for a LR shoot...

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## andyanimal31

> Haha, sounds like it could be a laugh... (or being laughed at...) Not really my scene though though by the looks of the website with all that gucci gear crap & my dick is bigger than yours, chest beating talk. Rather go out hunting...
> 
> I was at Tekapo over Easter, used the range to sight in my 338 after changing scopes. Good area for a LR shoot...
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000T using Tapatalk


Easy with the generaliisations about who shoots and what happens at the gunslinger shoots,
For those that dont know me i am a fencing contractor in the central northisland  that loves hunting and steel shooting.
I was lucky enough to shoot at the horopito shoot and was impressed with the people involved and the targets that we shot as there were many excellent reactive targets and also some serious challenges with each station been timed and also targets to be shot in certain orders to really put the pressure on.
Yes there was some awesome gear there but also alot of run of the mill stuff as well
To be honest for the amount of time and cost that Shane goes to to host these shoots at $120 per shooter for that shoot i reckon it was a bloody good day testing your self and your equipment and a few quiets telling lies and stretching the truth with a crew of like minded people.
By the way i was shooting my 6.5x55 tikka T3 and didnt disgrace myself and by the way Claw you know the best thing about a small dick?
There is no hole it wont fit in!
Cheers  Andy

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## el borracho

Andyanimal31 actually won the event at Horipito with some very good shooting , little dick or not he with a large one doesnt always win as the Tikka in swede showed us .And yes the guys that go to these shoots top blokes for sureand real enthusists !
Shane goes to great lenghts to put on a great event that those in the long range community can test themselves at and their gear including the some of the projectiles in the tests I posted.I hear youre intending to attend this shoot Andy

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## The Claw

Good work Andy, good to see someone with normal gear that knows how to shoot show those with more dollars than sense how its done.

Maybe I was a bit harsh in my last post, but I remember back to when this first started on the other forum and the debacle that ensued there...

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## andyanimal31

> Good work Andy, good to see someone with normal gear that knows how to shoot show those with more dollars than sense how its done.
> 
> Maybe I was a bit harsh in my last post, but I remember back to when this first started on the other forum and the debacle that ensued there...


Bugger missed that!

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## el borracho

Nuthin like a cyber scrap !!! lol Claw love to see you come to an event with your standard gear that Greg has made for you --cough cough "'STANDARD "-Im sure youd have alot of fun and be well impressed with the people that attend these events

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## The Claw

Not sure where you are heading here, never said anything about my gear, its not standard thats for sure, never said it was. Got nothing to prove to anyone, I don't make a point of talking about what I have and what I can do, I'm just happy to get out there hunting/shooting

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## el borracho

fair enought to Claw ,still always good to  meet and shoot with other keen longrangers -maybe next year!

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## The Claw

> We all know Shane from when he started all this. 
> 
> Claw, when I get back, we will have a free shoot at my place with all the steel and a laugh for a weekend. Sound good?


Yeah mate. When do you get back?

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## el borracho

Hey Tussock how far you shooting out to and what kinda toys will you have .? Shane has done a good thing for longrange shooting especially travelling the comps from Island to Island and doing a good job being organized for shooters to turn up compete ,share a meal and talk about the things we enjoy and leave until the next one .Cost a little but it has been worth the cost to meet and shoot with some great guys from both North and South Islands.
Its great to see also some state of the art weaponary arrive at the shoots with the latest AX Accuracy Internationals and Vectronix 21 LRF's -not to forgot some older style rifle also .

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## tui_man2

> Hey Tussock how far you shooting out to and what kinda toys will you have .? Shane has done a good thing for longrange shooting especially travelling the comps from Island to Island and doing a good job being organized for shooters to turn up compete ,share a meal and talk about the things we enjoy and leave until the next one .Cost a little but it has been worth the cost to meet and shoot with some great guys from both North and South Islands.
> Its great to see also some state of the art weaponary arrive at the shoots with the latest AX Accuracy Internationals and Vectronix 21 LRF's -not to forgot some older style rifle also .


So hes doing a great thing with LR because he runs these comps???................oohhh you are right i dont think we would be here without it :Thumbsup:

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## crzyman

> Hey Tussock how far you shooting out to and what kinda toys will you have .? Shane has done a good thing for longrange shooting especially travelling the comps from Island to Island and doing a good job being organized for shooters to turn up compete ,share a meal and talk about the things we enjoy and leave until the next one .Cost a little but it has been worth the cost to meet and shoot with some great guys from both North and South Islands.
> Its great to see also some state of the art weaponary arrive at the shoots with the latest AX Accuracy Internationals and Vectronix 21 LRF's -not to forgot some older style rifle also .


We have held twice as many shoots, seen and used all the fancy gear, had meals and beers and done it all for free.

Shane has done f*ck all for long range shooters in NZ.  He has given his ego a boost though...... :Grin:

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## gimp

An actual competition of the style that Shane runs would be interesting to run and see, because it's a much more realistic and honest test of your skill than a casual shoot.


I'm planning on running one sometime for free or a minimal cost under the forum banner.

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## The Claw

> Two weeks in June, probably be fairly hectic, then back for good in October. I will have time on my hands (uninjured fingers crossed) to set up a shoot. Gimps looking at a fun shoot, semi competitive run as a course which I will help with too. Be easy to run a small shoot at my place on the original range.


Good as, let me know if you need a hand with organising it. We should put the practice into practice and go for a look for an animal (rabbit, wallaby, tahr maybe) the next day or 2 after the shoot ...

Sent from my cellphone...

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## el borracho

Shane has created a nation wide contest platform unlike what you are doing with friends .To set up a contest scene takes alot intial investment   and alot of personal input especially finding farms and having all things prepared for the shooters when they arrive .
It would be better to hear you say that he is doing a great job and service to the LR shooting community who have an interest in matching their skills against other enthusiasts and meeting to talk about their kit
We will always have tall poppy cutters who want to knock the very good work of others but thats the life is

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## crzyman

> Shane has created a nation wide contest platform unlike what you are doing with friends .To set up a contest scene takes alot intial investment   and alot of personal input especially finding farms and having all things prepared for the shooters when they arrive .
> *It would be better to hear you say that he is doing a great job and service to the LR shooting community who have an interest in matching their skills against other enthusiasts and meeting to talk about their kit*
> We will always have tall poppy cutters who want to knock the very good work of others but thats the life is


You want me to arse lick??

He has a big enough ego now thanks

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## el borracho

Arse lick no ! Just give credit where credits due and maybe join a crew in a compition , allways interested to see the skills of others and either teach or learn from them as happens at these events

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## the kid

Norway comes from the other side of the planet to run free LR courses. 

Not keen to pay $120 to gearwank and shoot steal when I can do it for free with my friends.

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## el borracho

From what I heard Norways ticket is paid for or he has a fee? I  am not promoting Shanes shoots  as such just making comments on their value to the LR shooting community who like to compete.Shane himself is very down to earth and an absolute gentleman !
The is a big difference to the occasional contest on your home grounds and one that is run nationally -nationally the commitment is alot greater as is the on going effort .As far as gear wank -I have it all Terrapin LRF , Trimble Nomad running patagonia ballistics plus several other programs , S&B 5X25 , Kestral 4500 amd a great rifle platfrom built around a Barnard single shot .284 wildcat this shit helps me win stuff ! I guess part of the type of shooting I do involves great gear where possible .
The Takapo contests I am going to attend next moth is $190  and I havent a problem paying that for what will be a great event -I guess some do

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## Kiwi Greg

I was keen to do the Ginslinger this time, many people have asked me if I was going or told me I should do it.

Then I found out the price hike this time & the 5km climb up a hill with all your gear, as if you would chuck it on a trailer behind a quad for the trip up the hill driven by ??? ....
Yes I could get a lift up the hill in a machine, another $140......
But what really did it for me was the event is capped at 338 & 1 gun for 1 shooter.
To further the sport you need to be able to accomodate bigger toys as has been possible in the past.
There will be a few disappointed would be larger calibre shooters around, just as well most of the 375s aren't built yet or there would be more.

I would much rather invest my time & $$$ to go shoot steel with mates in either Island as I have done many times in the past.

I believe there is a steel shoot on the coast on the same weekend  :Cool:

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## el borracho

I imagine the 338cal and below may be about the strength of the frames and steel with the larger calibers possibly able to drill or break the gear -not cheap to replace as I am sure you would be aware with the harder steels prices.
The copter ride up the hill is about $70 plus with your gear following up behind in a quad .
I believe the one gun policy came out of certain people shooting the same gun one after another once the first guy had winded his rifle in giving that team an unfair advantage. 
It is a shame KiwiGreg that you cant use your 375 as I for one would like to have seen how you and the rifle shoot .
I am tossing a 180 gr berger down the course which will stay supersonic out to around 1800 yards if I remmeber correctly - 7mm great caliber and much cheaper to shoot giving similar ballistic to the 250gr pill in 338lm

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## Kiwi Greg

> I imagine the 338cal and below may be about the strength of the frames and steel with the larger calibers possibly able to drill or break the gear -not cheap to replace as I am sure you would be aware with the harder steels prices.
> The copter ride up the hill is about $70 plus with your gear following up behind in a quad .
> I believe the one gun policy came out of certain people shooting the same gun one after another once the first guy had winded his rifle in giving that team an unfair advantage. 
> It is a shame KiwiGreg that you cant use your 375 as I for one would like to have seen how you and the rifle shoot .
> I am tossing a 180 gr berger down the course which will stay supersonic out to around 1800 yards if I remmeber correctly - 7mm great caliber and much cheaper to shoot giving similar ballistic to the 250gr pill in 338lm


Don't forget your spotter  :Have A Nice Day: 

I'm not getting into a calibre debate, but a small 338 with 250s or 300s wouldn't be much dearer to shoot than a 7mm, if anything, especially as you get out beyond 1000.
The closer the 7mm gets to the 338s ballistics the shorter the 7mm barrel life is & the more expensive it is to run by the time the comsumables are factored in  :Have A Nice Day:

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## gimp

> I was keen to do the Ginslinger this time, many people have asked me if I was going or told me I should do it.
> 
> Then I found out the price hike this time & the 5km climb up a hill with all your gear, as if you would chuck it on a trailer behind a quad for the trip up the hill driven by ??? ....
> Yes I could get a lift up the hill in a machine, another $140......
> But what really did it for me was the event is capped at 338 & 1 gun for 1 shooter.
> To further the sport you need to be able to accomodate bigger toys as has been possible in the past.
> There will be a few disappointed would be larger calibre shooters around, just as well most of the 375s aren't built yet or there would be more.
> 
> I would much rather invest my time & $$$ to go shoot steel with mates in either Island as I have done many times in the past.
> ...


It's practical shooting... You don't carry 2 rifles hunting, do you? And I think you just demonstrated the problem with the larger rifles: No-one wants to carry them anywhere, they're not practical.


I'm all for shooting in a practical competition format occasionally rather than a casual shoot as it will tell you a hell of a lot more about your ability than a casual shoot.  You can't compare the 2 things.

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## el borracho

Gimp +1 me to

Yes the barrel wear is certainly another consideration .I have just seated my projo out after I lost some accuracy after around 800 rounds and well see when this happens again -great things single fed actions as you just keep pushing the pill out further and further 

cost =case $190 pill .90c   primmer .8c  powder .40-50c a round -more or less using a shell 5-6 times $1.79 a shot 
plus .57c barrel were per shot say 1400 rounds per barrel =$2.26 per shot in reality 

Lapua -farkkk $5 a case I dont know the rest to be honest

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## Kiwi Greg

> It's practical shooting... You don't carry 2 rifles hunting, do you? And I think you just demonstrated the problem with the larger rifles: No-one wants to carry them anywhere, they're not practical.
> 
> 
> I'm all for shooting in a practical competition format occasionally rather than a casual shoot as it will tell you a hell of a lot more about your ability than a casual shoot.  You can't compare the 2 things.


So when you go hunting/shooting you carry one rifle to shoot out to 1600 + yards ?.........

As I understand it, it use to be shot in two parts long & really long courses.

Then a few guys used two rifles.

You can still learn a lot from a causal shoot, possibly a lot more as you aren't restricted to shots fired so you can figure out where your shots are going if you are having trouble spoytting them, which has happened in the past.

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## gimp

> So when you go hunting/shooting you carry one rifle to shoot out to 1600 + yards ?.........



I don't shoot that far when hunting, and frankly I don't think it's possible to make any sort of consistent first round hits at that range. I have yet to see anyone make consistent first round hits at ranges much closer than that. Besides which I have no interest in doing so. I don't count shooting to 1600+ yards as "practical" shooting.


I think it's possible to learn a lot less from a casual shoot if you don't apply ruthless self-assessment as there's no incentive to make first round hits, and no "score" so you have no realistic summary of your performance at the end of the day. There is also no time constraints etc, so there's no incentive to learn efficient habits. It's very easy for people to get false confidence from shooting a small group or making a hit at a very long distance - they tend to suddenly forget all the misses that came before it.

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## el borracho

There are now two division of shooting long to 1000 yards and the other longer to 1760 yards .One can pick either both or one devision to compete in .
Gimp I am in agreement on the casual versus a timed string of shots under pressure even if your own trying to asses and vanquish the conditions as you see them .I prefer to shoot as a team with one other to talk aboutwind , mirage and hits or misses .The pressure change the ball game for sure and I have gone from hero to zero more than once and back again .
One doesnt need the most fancy gear to compete but it does help although in the second to last contest Andy off this forum won with great wind judgement and shooting out to 1000 yards with his Tikka 6.5x55 as mentioned earlier on .
Deffinatly different than a casual shoot and barbq with beers

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## Kiwi Greg

> I don't shoot that far when hunting, and frankly I don't think it's possible to make any sort of consistent first round hits at that range. I have yet to see anyone make consistent first round hits at ranges much closer than that. Besides which I have no interest in doing so. I don't count shooting to 1600+ yards as "practical" shooting.
> 
> 
> I think it's possible to learn a lot less from a casual shoot if you don't apply ruthless self-assessment as there's no incentive to make first round hits, and no "score" so you have no realistic summary of your performance at the end of the day. There is also no time constraints etc, so there's no incentive to learn efficient habits. It's very easy for people to get false confidence from shooting a small group or making a hit at a very long distance - they tend to suddenly forget all the misses that came before it.


I understand what you are saying, the good old my "gun shoots 1/2 moa", when it might have done it for 1 group once...... 
Its about being honest with yourself, your abilities & trying to improve them. 
With the bigger claibres you have a "better chance" of getting 1st round hits at extended ranges, all things being equal  :Have A Nice Day: 
Inside 1000 starts to get boring fairly quickly in good conditions.

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## distant stalker

> I understand what you are saying, the good old my "gun shoots 1/2 moa", when it might have done it for 1 group once...... 
> Its about being honest with yourself, your abilities & trying to improve them. 
> With the bigger claibres you have a "better chance" of getting 1st round hits at extended ranges, all things being equal 
> Inside 1000 starts to get boring fairly quickly in good conditions.


Anything up to and including 800 is boring in good conditions with a 223 (as you saw on the coast :Psmiley: ) WOuld be doubly boring with a 338

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## el borracho

223 in other than still conditions is a nightmare to spot and even then hard!

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## baldbob

> I agree on all counts, competitive practical LR is a cool thing. 
> 
> We will be running it through the forum at some point, as we have always intended to.


Good idea........ We have the perfect range for that... Ive plenty spare time through winter to run/help put together such an event....

But I wouldnt ever compete in such a thing..... I dont want my cock to shrink......
I struggle to get sex as it is  :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:   :Have A Nice Day:

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## The Claw

Classic...  :Grin: 

Sent from my cellphone...

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## tonka

Yes unfortunately while some good competition rocks upto these events the great relitive or great on the hill shooters dont show at this kind of thing. Its a pity really.

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## el borracho

I do

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## el borracho

So he comes here to deer hunt and takes some time out to teach a few of you in the south the finer points ?I had heard via the wind of rumours you guys in the south comensated him to be here and teach but obviously I wrongly informed .

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## baldbob

> So he comes here to deer hunt and takes some time out to teach a few of you in the south the finer points ?I had heard via the wind of rumours you guys in the south comensated him to be here and teach but obviously I wrongly informed .


I dont mean to be rude but the way you show up on this site and throw around obsenities and rumours towards much respected members leaves much to be desired..

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## The Claw

If you call giving Norway a book (Davey Hughes book) for a day of tuition paying for his services, then yes he was paid. Norway was over on holiday, not hunting at all and ki.dly offered to instruct for a day (off his own back as I understand). Cost us $31 each for the consumables and lunch... I personally got a lot of value from this, it was a basic, stripped down course, no electronic gadgets or flash harry gear. Bloody good day!

Sent from my cellphone...

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## crzyman

> If you call giving Norway a book (Davey Hughes book) for a day of tuition paying for his services, then yes he was paid. Norway was over on holiday, not hunting at all and ki.dly offered to instruct for a day (off his own back as I understand). Cost us $31 each for the consumables and lunch... I personally got a lot of value from this, it was a basic, stripped down course, no electronic gadgets or flash harry gear. Bloody good day!
> 
> Sent from my cellphone...


Dont forget the bottle of scotch.......

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## crzyman

Yep, we must be "the guys from down south" that run shoots and give out advice on all aspects of long range shooting for "free"

Perhaps we should be charging $200 for pleasure of doing it...... That way it would pay for some of my tacticool over the top gear :Have A Nice Day: 

Oh, I forgot we are here to help people not profit from them.

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## el borracho

> I dont mean to be rude but the way you show up on this site and throw around obsenities and rumours towards much respected members leaves much to be desired..


 I laughed when I read and  I mean really laughed  .Baldbob I had the vision you were living in the times of the flat earth and the question was posed "is the earth round" gasp horror wear a horse hair shirt and flog my back raw .hahaaa . It was just question and it was answered

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## el borracho

> Yep, we must be "the guys from down south" that run shoots and give out advice on all aspects of long range shooting for "free"
> 
> Perhaps we should be charging $200 for pleasure of doing it...... That way it would pay for some of my tacticool over the top gear
> 
> Oh, I forgot we are here to help people not profit from them.


 Do you know up here in the Ork we dont mind paying for services rendered , but hey that just us

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## el borracho

> If you call giving Norway a book (Davey Hughes book) for a day of tuition paying for his services, then yes he was paid. Norway was over on holiday, not hunting at all and ki.dly offered to instruct for a day (off his own back as I understand). Cost us $31 each for the consumables and lunch... I personally got a lot of value from this, it was a basic, stripped down course, no electronic gadgets or flash harry gear. Bloody good day!
> 
> Sent from my cellphone...


I myself would have very much enjoyed a day with Norway and a crew taking in his knowledge even if only a stripped down course .Did he cover wind reading in any depth -ie the finer points

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## crnkin

Hey douche, there's a website designed specifically for you- getoveryourself.com: The Leading Personal Growth Site on the Net

South of the Bombay's we type english, and respect our fellow hobbyists. (unless it is not reciprocated) Come to think of it, when I lived in Auckland for years it was the same too, maybe it doesn't matter where you live which determines how much of a narcissist one is.

Chris

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## el borracho

How funny . the egos of some are so so fragile -maybe  your circles are a little small if you just want to talk with those that agree  with you while you pat each other on the back .My vista is wide open and to be honest from what I have read on this particular post there are some that personify the ol kiwi "tall poppy cutter syndrome"
I am still laughing about this as I really dont know what he is talking about -hey Chris you seem intelligent maybe you could explain .

 Originally Posted by baldbob  
I dont mean to be rude but the way you show up on this site and throw around obsenities and rumours towards much respected members leaves much to be desired..

I really dont know what he means -maybe we speak different languages

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## el borracho

> This is turning into a squabble. Before we get all handbags at ten paces ladies, lets rein it in a bit. 
> 
> Its fairly obvious El Boraccho swaggered into the wrong LR saloon. This is not the Ok Corral of the internet. Lets all play nice. Shane does his thing, we do ours and the world is a better place for it. 
> 
> Any more trouble, and this is going to be your avatar
> Attachment 1377


Tussock , I fail to see why you would say I have swaggered into the wrong saloon -why because you guys are offended by Shanes proffetionally running a nation wide comp the he makes a dollar on and is reimbersed for his valuable time ? I dont get much more Tall poppy cutting syndrome than that ! Or is it my hair cut ?

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## crnkin

Bloody trolls!

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## tui_man2

> Bloody trolls!


Thas about right its suits you..................you are a old nana!!!! an still the '338 pussy'....................................

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## baldbob

> Thas about right its suits you..................you are a old nana!!!! an still the '338 pussy'....................................


 Ahhahaha fukn amen ta that..

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## el borracho

> Bloody trolls!


  thats funny as your trollin my post ?

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## baldbob

> thats f
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by el borracho
> 
> 
> thats funny as your trollin my post ?
> ...


 Shutup chee troll did we give you permission to talk?

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## R93

Not really wanting to get into a debate but $120-$200 seems cheap to attend an orginised competition. I used to spend more than that at nearly every zone, island, national sporting clay shoot I attend and there are several every year.
I would be keen on some decent fun/competition shoots in the south island, if just to meet other keen shooters and contacts but most seem lately to be run around my favorite times for hunting. 
A gallery/reaction type shoot would be good. Rocking up to blast a heap of rounds down range is fun but I can do it at home to a 1000yrds. I enjoy the Greymouth shoots because of the lack of egos (apart from myself) and like minded blokes I have met. Contrary to what people think you dont have to have humped some of your relatives to be included. (if you have, you get to spot for BB)
There are ego's in every sport and it up to the individual how they to deal with them. Some people with egos can still be knowledgable cant they?
If I am able, I am happy to help with set up and working bees and would be interested in any shoot run/setup by this forum. I have been fortunate for a large part of the last 27 yrs to shoot all over the world in both military and civvie competitions in a number of classes and may be able to contribute to some challenging formats. LR under 1200 yrds being my favorite, anything beyond that is classed as harrasing fire anyway.
I do believe the Greymouth tribe can run a nice wee comp.

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## baldbob

It costs fuck all to do it.... Wen ole stumpwildo gets the steel for nufn out the rubbish pile.... We have piles of steel over the show for when KG shows up and turns it cheesegrater.... Its just abit of time...... I would think to do a proper organised shoot permission from the forestry company may need to be sought... Other than that theres full potential for practical LR shooting in many forms..

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## gimp

> Shutup chee troll did we give you permission to talk?


Please be polite to other members :Have A Nice Day:

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## el borracho

> Not really wanting to get into a debate but $120-$200 seems cheap to attend an orginised competition. I used to spend more than that at nearly every zone, island, national sporting clay shoot I attend and there are several every year.
> I would be keen on some decent fun/competition shoots in the south island, if just to meet other keen shooters and contacts but most seem lately to be run around my favorite times for hunting. 
> A gallery/reaction type shoot would be good. Rocking up to blast a heap of rounds down range is fun but I can do it at home to a 1000yrds. I enjoy the Greymouth shoots because of the lack of egos (apart from myself) and like minded blokes I have met. Contrary to what people think you dont have to have humped some of your relatives to be included. (if you have, you get to spot for BB)
> There are ego's in every sport and it up to the individual how they to deal with them. Some people with egos can still be knowledgable cant they?
> If I am able, I am happy to help with set up and working bees and would be interested in any shoot run/setup by this forum. I have been fortunate for a large part of the last 27 yrs to shoot all over the world in both military and civvie competitions in a number of classes and may be able to contribute to some challenging formats. LR under 1200 yrds being my favorite, anything beyond that is classed as harrasing fire anyway.
> I do believe the Greymouth tribe can run a nice wee comp.


R93 are you based in NZ or in Queeensland .The gunslinnger shoots are not just a one off good ol boys beer and barbie but an on going set of comps that move around the country -alot of personal time and effort by Mr Cossar as I am sure you can appreciate .Yes I agree with you that the cost of the shoot for the effort the individual makes is small recompence for a good days competing and also it is none of "my buissnes" what he make on these shoots as long as I am happy paying the entry fee which is mininal and in line or cheaper with many other organized competitive sports .I hope you would also like to attend some of the comps as the more the better and a great crew to meet with lotsa nice toys

AAAAARRRGGGHH bALDBOB Ugot 3 teef and ya spittin shite. :XD:

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## baldbob

> AAAAARRRGGGHH bALDBOB Ugot 3 teef and ya spittin shite.


Ahhhhhh but I partay to which is said about you between the lines.... I could post it but according to gimp it wont be polite....  :Wink:

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## R93

I understand what you guys are saying Tussock and Baldbob. It may be cheap in materials and donated time. But trust me after a while it is the same guys and their gear everytime, putting in the effort of setting one up.  Fuel and paint for example. All I am saying is I am happy to help pay for those items and put in some time.
I think the coasts guys mixed with the rabble from down south could run a brilliant shoot. But trust me. As the shoots get more popular and they will, there may be a need to pay to shoot.
I am fine with that.
I work in Queensland EL and I would maybe like to attend a shoot one day. I am just not interested in payin $70 bucks for a .1 flight up a hill to do so. Depending on type of machine thats definitely a rip off.

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## el borracho

That may be so R93 but I am going to pay it as I fear the 5km walk up hill could kill me -you know Takapuna is pretty flat and one doesnt have to walk far for the trim soy latte before a small sweat dampens ones forhead  :Wink:

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## R93

Do you know what type of machine it is?

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## el borracho

I dont ,and to tell you the truth I hate flying so I hope it aint a bucket with a rubber band and Ice block stick prop-I could find out and post it later on .

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## R93

> I dont ,and to tell you the truth I hate flying so I hope it aint a bucket with a rubber band and Ice block stick prop-I could find out and post it later on .


I am just curious. Ta

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## crnkin

> Please be polite to other members


Shuddup gimp

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## el borracho

From talking to people with  experience about setting things up for shooters it starts out all oohh arrgh and ends with one or two getting sick of "doing it all" -its amazing how many hands are up at the start and are not there in the  time of need .

Youll always get a few going but how serious will they be taken by the shooters and the organisers.Lets see how you do !!!

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## R93

As I said Tussock I am keen and if it works out, and if people dont have to pay all the better. I am keen to see your format and if it can be adopted between crews it should be a huge bit of fun.
The pilot of the machine you were talking about didnt seem to care much about what could have happened. I have done tons of rabbits for work but never in a 500. They must have been goofing around and not doing it for a crust eh?

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## R93

> Rich amateur pilot. Just goofing around.


I got the amateur bit right, just wish I was rich.
Was this in Wanaka by chance?

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## R93

> It would be impolite for me to say so, as they were very kind in letting me play with all their expensive crap.


Fair enough. I have a fair idea......... now.

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## el borracho

> I think we will be Ok. We have been setting up shoots since 2006.


So  far do you consider your shoots upto the same standard as the Gunslinger shoots and are there a dedicated crew around the country able to do thse shoots given youve been doing them since 2006 ?

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## R93

> So  far do you consider your shoots upto the same standard as the Gunslinger shoots and are there a dedicated crew around the country able to do thse shoots given youve been doing them since 2006 ?


Its not hard to set up a shoot with the  experience in the groups we have disscussed. As far as standard goes there has to be a measure. If its challanging and enjoyable which all I have been to are, then it is subjective. So yep!

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## el borracho

If there is one in the North Island I would go along shoot and give my opinion in comparison to the gunslinger -please let me know when one is on !

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## R93

> If there is one in the North Island I would go along shoot and give my opinion in comparison to the gunslinger -please let me know when one is on !


I will travel to the NI to chase Sika, Rusa or Sambar but not to participate in a pissing contest thanks.

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## el borracho

I dont believe the contestants have a view they are in a pissing contests as dont the Crusaders when they come north .We enjoy the compitition and obviously make an investment of our time into the sport because we enjoy it and do like to compare our skills or lack of with others , also to learn and be taught by those that have something to offer .The contest certainly offer growth in your shooting ability if you choose to look ,listen and learn .I suppose it would cut a few key board hero's down to size also  having to put their balls on the block for all to see .

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## R93

> I dont believe the contestants have a view they are in a pissing contests as dont the Crusaders when they come north .We enjoy the compitition and obviously make an investment of our time into the sport because we enjoy it and do like to compare our skills or lack of with others , also to learn and be taught by those that have something to offer .The contest certainly offer growth in your shooting ability if you choose to look ,listen and learn .I suppose it would cut a few key board hero's down to size also  having to put their balls on the block for all to see .


I am sure, pretty much everyone on this thread has put their balls on the block as you put it. Keyboard heros? Its all I know of you and you of me mate. Shooting steel is fun but to me hardley a competition. 
F class, which we cannot do in the South Island? to me is a proper LR competition yet does not replicate all my needs in the field. I have however shot in enough competitions across the board to know I am only as good as my last so I dont get to hung up on them. Ill just stick to whats avaliable here in the south island, I think I will enjoy myself a little more. I am suddenly put off coming north except for the hunting.

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## el borracho

Dont be put of coming north as there are plenty of friendly people just like me!
I have a saying R93-hero to zero -zero to hero .As you say your only as good as your last shot 'for that day'.
I shoot FClass ,in fact I just lost the top dog title this year in my club-hero to zero -maybe next year ill do better

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## gadgetman

Just been reading through all of this! I'm not into long range, being and old newbie to shooting I'm still working on the shorter stuff. I must say I do like the sound of the Southern/Western SI type of more informal, accessible, and typically grassroots approach. This has proven a fantastic approach in this countries relatively short history and has produced many results where we have excelled well above humble expectations. Hats off to you guys for doing this. Top work!

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## crzyman

I remember the first shoot, sent gimp to get carlsons Sat morning and while gone we made a few "adjustments" on his scope........ he spent the first wee while sorting out his "zero" while we pissed ourselves :Thumbsup:

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## crzyman

he was shooting the target next to his, I think it was 30 up and 30 accross, easy to remember

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## R93

> I remember the first shoot, sent gimp to get carlsons Sat morning and while gone we made a few "adjustments" on his scope........ he spent the first wee while sorting out his "zero" while we pissed ourselves


You Bastards! Must of had you's rolling around with sore guts.

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## gadgetman

Don't ya' just hate it when things get bumped. :Yuush:

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## Norway

> From what I heard Norways ticket is paid for or he has a fee?


No I have never charged anything. Rather h
ad a bit of expense doing it.

I did however refuse an invitation to come under Shane/ Gunslinger banner as I don't agree with that way of promoting LR shooting. I have a different approach to it. Not better, just different. I believe in people not gear.

If you ever hear I charge money please make it clear that I don't.

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## Norway

Let's be nice. Having choice is nice.

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## gadgetman

> Let's be nice. Having choice is nice.


+1

More achieved in this world by people doing what they can, not bagging those that are doing the same thing differently. Everyone has something to offer and if you are able to accept then everyone wins.

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## Norway

...re-read the thread on a PC (as opposed to mobile). No need to bash anyone for questioning, you could just explain instead. I'm just an opinionated person; there are several ways to go about LR.

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## gadgetman

> ...re-read the thread on a PC (as opposed to mobile). No need to bash anyone for questioning, you could just explain instead. I'm just an opinionated person; there are several ways to go about LR.


Not sure if this is aimed at me. If so I should explain better. I am saying that the people on here, yourself included, do an amazingly good job of helping each other. If someone accepts help then they get a significant gain. The person that helps also gains with respect, and feels good when they see the effect on the other person/people. I'm saying I agree with you 100%. It is better to help and work together. I enjoy your videos and have found them really useful. A big thanks from me.

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## Norway

> Not sure if this is aimed at me.


No, not at all, I just missed a couple of pages on the cellphone. It was more a general comment; the forum will be a bad place if we create "gurus" and don't allow people questioning them.
I think we agree fully, I just don't see the need to to bash El. Obviously I must be doing something wrong during teaching if people don't assimilate.

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## el borracho

Hi Norway , thank you for your clarification and when I was told that you were paid for your good efforts it was in no way said with any negative conatation -just someone with incorrect info .
Questioning and challenging the gurus or heavy locals is always a must as it inspires debate which in turn inspires new ideas and actions .
I to have watch your wind video with much interest and constantly search for the like on the net including mirage -Im going to seach for wind on snow shortly so as to see the  visible action of the wind through valleys and hills- if you have any other links for good wind stuff please post .
Regards

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## el borracho

I was thinking of something very similar as there is little info on the net about how wind reacts in different terrain -I seached the forum only thias afternoon and found a wind post which wouldnt help to many .I have though about filming smoke bombs but dont know if one is able to purchase these still -I think plumbers once used them .
In particular how wind reacts in in mountainous terrain as it runs over the top of the ridges and then as it goes to the valley floorsand follows the valley.
I recently one an annual  1km contest that Harry Hoover son near Hamilton  and the thistl down help me win -I dont think the others were watching the increase i wind which caused the down to fly - I did and I won.This would make an excellent post -one that would help most more than any other subject

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## R93

Then there is mirage. This has done my head in more than any wind. I have had it throw me out 3MOA before at 700yrds. Fired three rounds in a wafting mirage on a river bed. Nice wee group 3 MOA below my POA. Couldnt work it out at the time as the group was tight. Had a revelation after checking everything 20 times and shot the same target with the same settings on dusk and they were in the guts.
Next day same target I added 3 MOA to my soloution in similar mirage and went a couple of inches low. Again that same day took 3 MOA off at dusk and was back on.

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## crzyman

hey, I still have the video of me dialing in 1300 meters and getting a first round hit over that flat ground, only 1 other rifle got those 1300m plates, a 7mm wsm.

I was using a 5-25 scope on 14 power because of the mirage.

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## R93

> hey, I still have the video of me dialing in 1300 meters and getting a first round hit over that flat ground, only 1 other rifle got those 1300m plates, a 7mm wsm.
> 
> I was using a 5-25 scope on 14 power because of the mirage.


I was on 16x during my fiasco. I am guessing but  sure different standards of glass can be an issue?

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## Norway

> Not sure if this is aimed at me.


No, not at all, I just missed a couple of pages on the cellphone. It was more a general comment; the forum will be a bad place if we create "gurus" and don't allow people questioning them.
I think we agree fully, I just don't see the need to to bash El. Obviously I must be doing something wrong during teaching if people don't assimilate.

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## el borracho

Hi Norway , thank you for your clarification and when I was told that you were paid for your good efforts it was in no way said with any negative conatation -just someone with incorrect info .
Questioning and challenging the gurus or heavy locals is always a must as it inspires debate which in turn inspires new ideas and actions .
I to have watch your wind video with much interest and constantly search for the like on the net including mirage -Im going to seach for wind on snow shortly so as to see the  visible action of the wind through valleys and hills- if you have any other links for good wind stuff please post .
Regards

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## el borracho

I was thinking of something very similar as there is little info on the net about how wind reacts in different terrain -I seached the forum only thias afternoon and found a wind post which wouldnt help to many .I have though about filming smoke bombs but dont know if one is able to purchase these still -I think plumbers once used them .
In particular how wind reacts in in mountainous terrain as it runs over the top of the ridges and then as it goes to the valley floorsand follows the valley.
I recently one an annual  1km contest that Harry Hoover son near Hamilton  and the thistl down help me win -I dont think the others were watching the increase i wind which caused the down to fly - I did and I won.This would make an excellent post -one that would help most more than any other subject

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## R93

Then there is mirage. This has done my head in more than any wind. I have had it throw me out 3MOA before at 700yrds. Fired three rounds in a wafting mirage on a river bed. Nice wee group 3 MOA below my POA. Couldnt work it out at the time as the group was tight. Had a revelation after checking everything 20 times and shot the same target with the same settings on dusk and they were in the guts.
Next day same target I added 3 MOA to my soloution in similar mirage and went a couple of inches low. Again that same day took 3 MOA off at dusk and was back on.

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## crzyman

hey, I still have the video of me dialing in 1300 meters and getting a first round hit over that flat ground, only 1 other rifle got those 1300m plates, a 7mm wsm.

I was using a 5-25 scope on 14 power because of the mirage.

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## R93

> hey, I still have the video of me dialing in 1300 meters and getting a first round hit over that flat ground, only 1 other rifle got those 1300m plates, a 7mm wsm.
> 
> I was using a 5-25 scope on 14 power because of the mirage.


I was on 16x during my fiasco. I am guessing but  sure different standards of glass can be an issue?

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