# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Police seize 39 guns in raid at house in rural south Auckland

## systolic

Police seize 39 guns in raid at house in rural south Auckland - NZ Herald

A rural Auckland family sheltered "in lockdown" in a bathroom when police with guns began to mass outside their home.

The police say they went to the property near Pukekohe about 9am on Sunday to serve a protection order on a man at the house and to seize numerous firearms.

The collection includes military-style weapons and collectible items such as muskets.

The man, who is in his 50s and whom the Herald cannot name for legal reasons, said no protection order was served and he now plans to file a complaint with the Independent Police Conduct Authority.

He believes the police acted unlawfully by entering his property when its gate was locked.

He told the Herald: "I have threatened nobody. I'm a peaceful man."

He lives at the house with his wife and children.

A former police officer, he listed the police resources deployed against him, which he believed were excessive: two trucks of special tactics group officers, five police cars, six uniformed police officers "surrounding the house" who were armed with pistols and wearing vests - "and a guy with a sledgehammer".

He said police were at his house for more than four hours.

Inspector Dave Glossop, the area commander for Counties Manukau south, said the man refused to admit the police.

"Based on all the information available to police - including the presence of a large number of firearms at the address - the Armed Offenders Squad was consulted with and deployed to assist in a support role along with the police negotiation team.

"Under section 18 of the Search and Surveillance Act, police gained peaceful entry to the address.

"More than 30 firearms were uplifted, and the protection order was served."

The act permits entry, search for and seizure of firearms without a warrant for reasons including the existence of a protection order against the person or there being grounds to make an application for one.

A senior police officer negotiated with the man by text message.

In one message, the officer said: "This is getting close to me forcing entry into the house. I don't want to do that. Please come to the door."

The man said his family were terrified by the experience.

"My daughters were crying, my wife was crying."

The mother said her daughter was in tears.

"She was worrying they were going to hurt the dog."

The man said: "We were in lockdown in the bathroom. My mate rang to say, 'It's getting serious, they're putting bullet-proof vests on, there's the Armed Offenders Squad and sledge hammers'.

"I thought, 'I don't need to put my family through this'."

The man, speaking to his friend by phone, asked his friend to pass the phone to a police officer, who then spoke with the man.

The man cooperated with the police and arranged for a neighbour to help the police get his guns.

The man said the police took 39 guns, including military-style rifles, pistols and collectible items such as muskets. They were all secured in two safes.

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## rossi.45

moral of the story  . . . if you have guns do not upset anyone, anytime, anywhere  . . . or the cops are coming 

R.

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## chainsaw

there seems to be some obvious facts missing from story ?  The headlines & actions make it sound like he was doing something illegally ?  did he have FAL ? appropriate category ? suitable storage/security ?   feels a OTT to me

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## Barefoot

It says he is a former police officer. Wonder what he would be saying if about the occupant he was wanting to gain access when he was still on the force . . . .
Obviously lots more to the story that we aren't going to hear.

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## mikee

> there seems to be some obvious facts missing from story ?  The headlines & actions make it sound like he was doing something illegally ?  did he have FAL ? appropriate category ? suitable storage/security ?   feels a OTT to me


Sounds a bit suspect too on the outside with out knowing the facts looks like a total over reaction.

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## systolic

> there seems to be some obvious facts missing from story ?  The headlines & actions make it sound like he was doing something illegally ?  did he have FAL ? appropriate category ? suitable storage/security ?   feels a OTT to me


If you read the second line of what is posted, it says the police went there to serve a protection order and seize his guns.

If you have a protection order, you can't have guns. Simple.

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## bigbear

When you are driving and see blue and reds you stop! when a cop comes to your door and knock's you open it. ITs not that hard for fuckwits like this guy to know this been a ex cop! his mate text him to say they are putting on vest, what did he think working up his family was going to save his sorry arse, if i hide in here they might leave :Wtfsmilie:

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## Maca49

Where do we sign up to contribute to his defence? He needs to take them on?

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## Cordite

It will all come out in court.  His refusal to give cops permission to enter was important the way I understand it.  Cooperation under protest is the order of the day, because if you or your partner invite them in you cannot cry out "illegal entry/search" later in court.

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## 223nut

Doesn't say who the protection order was for... Lots missing and could make for a landmark court case

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## GravelBen

> If you read the second line of what is posted, it says the police went there to serve a protection order and seize his guns.


And the 6th line quotes him as saying no protection order was served...

Certainly seems that there is more to the story than what has been reported.

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## outdoorlad

Well one side is lying.

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## oraki

Yeah but he had 39 firearms, who needs that many. :ORLY: 
That's sensational headline stuff right there...

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## Cordite

> Yeah but he had 39 firearms, who needs that many.
> That's sensational headline stuff right there...


"The man said the police took 39 guns, including military-style rifles, pistols and collectible items such as muskets. They were all secured in two safes."

_Military style_ muskets I bet.  Freaking gun nut...

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## GravelBen

Bloody terrorist muskets terrorising everyone terribly.

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## norsk

> Bloody terrorist muskets terrorising everyone terribly.


Terrorist Muskets fire bullets that hit the same way no matter which way round they are loaded,"our job is to limit the number of terrorist Muskets in the Community,which unbelievably can sometimes be found on the walls of living rooms across the Country" Said Inspector Knee-jerk of east Tamaki Police .

Inspector Jerk urges anyone who suspects another person who might be in posession of any kind og firearm to contact Police so they can get their Doors Kicked in too.

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## systolic

> Well one side is lying.


Yep. And I think I believe what the cops are saying before a man whose family are so scared of violence from him that they had to get a protection order to try to keep safe.

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## Bumshot

I know the guy and he is an upright good guy. Has all licences and is member of reputable club, who supported his B and E cat applications.
Protection order is to keep him away from his mother so sister can grab the family money.
Police have f..ked up badly and so has family court allowing them selves to be used in this way.
We all need to ask the hard questions here.
Why are fathers pickiting family court judges

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## Tommy

Was told today the family court is involved, all sorts of under handed shit starts there so wouldn't be super quick to take sides.

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## Rushy

Oh the stories I could tell about the inequities handed out by the family court.  I was one of the first to be ordered to pay child support when it was introduced.  I had a joint custody, paid all schooling, health insurance, clothing and footwear for the kids and still got slammed with paying the ex a full amount of child support even though half of every year they lived with and were fed by me.  All came to an end for me over twenty years ago so I have no axe to grind but I am sure the inequities will continue to prevail against those with a nutsack who appear before the family court.

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## Jexla

> I know the guy and he is an upright good guy. Has all licences and is member of reputable club, who supported his B and E cat applications.
> Protection order is to keep him away from his mother so sister can grab the family money.
> Police have f..ked up badly and so has family court allowing them selves to be used in this way.
> s


Why would I not be surprised if every word of that is absolute truth?

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## outlander

> Oh the stories I could tell about the inequities handed out by the family court.  I was one of the first to be ordered to pay child support when it was introduced.  I had a joint custody, paid all schooling, health insurance, clothing and footwear for the kids and still got slammed with paying the ex a full amount of child support even though half of every year they lived with and were fed by me.  All came to an end for me over twenty years ago so I have no axe to grind but I am sure the inequities will continue to prevail against those with a nutsack who appear before the family court.


An 'axe to grind' and 'nutsack' in the same sentence, brings me out in a cold sweat.

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## Beavis

Wouldn't be the first time I can think of a vindictive family member doing this to a gun owner for spite/personal gain. Can actually think of three individual cases off the very top of my head.

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## Cordite

> Terrorist Muskets fire bullets that hit the same way no matter which way round they are loaded,"our job is to limit the number of terrorist Muskets in the Community,which unbelievably can sometimes be found on the walls of living rooms across the Country" Said Inspector Knee-jerk of east Tamaki Police .
> 
> Inspector Jerk urges anyone who suspects another person who might be in posession of any kind og firearm to contact Police so they can get their Doors Kicked in too.


Unlimited multi-directional bullets give civilian shooters far too many options.  STUFF.CONZ quotes the guy's local Green MP asking the question we all think but don't dare to ask: "Why would anyone need bullets like that?!?"

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## 40mm

> "The man said the police took 39 guns, including military-style rifles, pistols and collectible items such as muskets. They were all secured in two safes."
> 
> _Military style_ muskets I bet.  Freaking gun nut...


aNd probably 6 air rifles, two paint ball guns. a ramset gun...... 4 airsoft guns....



who knows what is going on? police acting like assholes? some crazy ex being a bitch? or a wife beater putting her in her place?

And these are the days of our lives..........Shortland st eat your heart out.

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## 40mm

> Yep. And I think I believe what the cops are saying before a man whose family are so scared of violence from him that they had to get a protection order to try to keep safe.


But on the other hand could his ex be a crazy bitch using the poor female card?

you wouldnt know, and neither would I.

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## 40mm

> Why would I not be surprised if every word of that is absolute truth?


Because all women are crazy?

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## jim160

If the Courts granted a Protection Order then they must have concerns.
He can challenge it and if its proven unfounded, then it will get dismissed.  And he gets his firearms back, depending on circumstances of what happened when they tried to seize them.

Judges always go on the side of caution, then Police execute the direction of the courts which is to seize firearms as you cannot hold them without the courts approval.  You can have firearms and have a protection order if the court approves.  Not very common, but it has been done.  Especially if the only form of income is provided by having to have firearms, such as a gunsmith, dealer and so forth.

But with the media, how do we actually know what happened or what the actual circumstances are.

I'm sure he will appeal the Protection Order and it will all come out when both sides are heard.

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## Steve123

Only good thing about this is I can look the wife in the eyes and honestly say I don't have that many firearms....yet :Thumbsup:

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## 308

I'm going to ignore this thread until the full story comes out which I expect to be rather a while

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## norsk

> Unlimited multi-directional bullets give civilian shooters far too many options.  STUFF.CONZ quotes the guy's local Green MP asking the question we all think but don't dare to ask: "Why would anyone need bullets like that?!?"


"It is quite unbelievable in this day and age that people are allowed access to assault muskets and knives" said Miss Halfmoon Dolphin of the Green Party.

"In addition to firing multidirectional bullets the actual bullets themselves are made from lead,a metal known to cause birth defects. Even if you miss the target something still dies" Miss Dolphin said further.

We the staff at stuff.co.nz think it's time the shooter of New Zealand give up their Muskets and prevent any more "death by missing".

#amississtillakill
#firesoncekillstwice

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## Cordite

> I'm going to ignore this thread until the full story comes out which I expect to be rather a while


Yes,   @308, we can wait all we want to.  NZ family courts work like the UK's secret anti terror courts  - the Press is not allowed in.  

Anyway he is safely pronounced guilty by reason of his former gang associates.  Ex-cop, likely at least ex-wifebeater.

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## GravelBen

> likely at least ex-wifebeater.


habit of wearing singlets in public?

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## 300CALMAN

> I'm going to ignore this thread until the full story comes out which I expect to be rather a while


Agreed Who F***** Knows? 

As we have seen time and time again it's hard to believe anything the press say these days and then both the police and family courts (if that's where this came from) are known to make some balls ups.

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## 300CALMAN

> habit of wearing singlets in public?


probably black ones

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## Cordite

He sounded coherent and reasonable on the Newstalk.ZB clip they put on the NZ Herald page.

*If someone can give a link to his whole call to Newstalk.ZB that would be great --  I could not find it.*

Police seize 39 guns in raid at house in rural south Auckland - NZ Herald

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## 7mmwsm

Three pages of comments based on one article in the Herald. Looks a bit like the stuff website.

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## gonetropo



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## gonetropo

@kotuku. i burned the disc for you

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## outlander

> "It is quite unbelievable in this day and age that people are allowed access to assault muskets and knives" said Miss Halfmoon Dolphin of the Green Party.
> 
> "In addition to firing multidirectional bullets the actual bullets themselves are made from lead,a metal known to cause birth defects. Even if you miss the target something still dies" Miss Dolphin said further.
> 
> We the staff at stuff.co.nz think it's time the shooter of New Zealand give up their Muskets and prevent any more "death by missing".
> 
> #amississtillakill
> #firesoncekillstwice


Everything you said is true, except 'Miss Halfmoon Dolphin' and 'Green  Party'. Who has a surname like that and what is a Green Party? Lead poison for sure, I shot myself in the foot with a 25 Gecado pellet gun 56 years ago and the pellet remains in situ. People talked in hushed tones and pointed a lot, from about 4 years after the mishap...

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## outlander

> Attachment 86178


Is this for sale?! How much?

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## gonetropo

> Everything you said is true, except 'Miss Halfmoon Dolphin' and 'Green  Party'. Who has a surname like that and what is a Green Party? Lead poison for sure, I shot myself in the foot with a 25 Gecado pellet gun 56 years ago and the pellet remains in situ. People talked in hushed tones and pointed a lot, from about 4 years after the mishap...


lead in solid form isnt too toxic ( i got a 22 in the shoulder), the main lead poisoning is in its gaseous or liquid form. then its an accumulative poison and hard to rid your body of except let it "wear off"

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## kotuku

> Attachment 86178


 got message from you -cheers ,much appreciated.
listen up ya bugger -thats me newfangled duck huntin device youre showin-stilll tryin to get me pluckin gut device together -might mount it on the pistolgrip
 the boys in blue -no probs why yes officer now you ask ..tis in fact a portable mallard duck removal and processing device,still in its prototype Im afraid so alas i cant sell you one.

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## Moutere

The cable ties arent period correct, an obvious reproduction.

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## kotuku

tropo check your PMs mate -one incoming with my adress

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## Dynastar27

> Oh the stories I could tell about the inequities handed out by the family court.  I was one of the first to be ordered to pay child support when it was introduced.  I had a joint custody, paid all schooling, health insurance, clothing and footwear for the kids and still got slammed with paying the ex a full amount of child support even though half of every year they lived with and were fed by me.  All came to an end for me over twenty years ago so I have no axe to grind but I am sure the inequities will continue to prevail against those with a nutsack who appear before the family court.


yep i know that feeling rushy 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

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## systolic

Is this guy who got raided, the same guy who there was a story about in Investigate magazine a few years ago?

The ex detective who sleeps in rubbish bins to hide from surveillance squads who are hunting him because he knows something about a Government minister?

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## Marty Henry

Dont know if its him but they can still see your thoughts unless you wear a tinfoil cap.

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## Sideshow

That's why the Vikings where so successful.....didn't they wear tinfoil hats :Thumbsup:

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## Tommy

> Is this guy who got raided, the same guy who there was a story about in Investigate magazine a few years ago?
> 
> The ex detective who sleeps in rubbish bins to hide from surveillance squads who are hunting him because he knows something about a Government minister?


Don't know what's sadder: that, or admitting to reading Investigate

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## systolic

> I know the guy and he is an upright good guy. Has all licences and is member of reputable club, who supported his B and E cat applications.
> Protection order is to keep him away from his mother so sister can grab the family money.
> Police have f..ked up badly and so has family court allowing them selves to be used in this way.
> We all need to ask the hard questions here.
> Why are fathers pickiting family court judges


Is this the same guy?

Former cop blows lid on NZ government bugging allegations  ministers implicated

There's some fairly out there ravings posted by him on the internet. Just Google his name.

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## kotuku

> Is this the same guy?
> 
> Former cop blows lid on NZ government bugging allegations – ministers implicated
> 
> There's some fairly out there ravings posted by him on the internet. Just Google his name.


 hmmmmmmmm-straying intoi my territory or a rampant PTSD having a orgasm??

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## kotuku

> Is this the same guy?
> 
> Former cop blows lid on NZ government bugging allegations  ministers implicated
> 
> There's some fairly out there ravings posted by him on the internet. Just Google his name.


 hmmmmmmmm-straying intoi my territory or a rampant PTSD having a orgasm??

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## Cordite

> hmmmmmmmm-straying intoi my territory or a rampant PTSD having a orgasm??





> hmmmmmmmm-straying intoi my territory or a rampant PTSD having a orgasm??


 @kotuku

Looks like you had a double one.

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## Cordite

This is the Investigate online article.  Ian Wishart's verbosity undermines his credibility, as usual, but that is just my perception.

Interestingly, the SIS is now recruiting for surveillance officers, say they want more ethnic / LGBT staff, to reflect the composition of society better.  No university degree needed, but have to be a NZ Citizen and be a "good driver". (Whaaat).  Maybe so surveillance teams wont "look like" surveillance teams?

*Former cop blows lid on NZ government bugging allegations – ministers implicated
*May 13, 2014 iwishart New Zealand 5

An explosive political allegation is breaking this afternoon – a retired police officer who leaked information about a senior National government minister is in hiding today with his wife and children, saying he believes he is now being hunted by police because of what he knows.

“I slept in a jumbo bin dumpster the other night in Newmarket while the police helicopter circled overhead and patrol cars were circling the area looking for me after I managed to give the slip to a police surveillance team,” Nick Preece said today, adding, “I know what police surveillance is because it was part of my job on the force.”

Preece


Preece, a former homicide and robbery detective, spent 11 years in the police force before embarking on a business career that included establishing an international aviation company – JMI Aerospace – with offices in seven countries last decade.

He drove hundreds of kilometres in a borrowed car to meet InvestigateDaily, after leaving a false trail for the police or private security teams he says are tracking him.

Preece, with his wife and young children in the car as well, has told InvestigateDaily his troubles began after he “foolishly” let slip to an Auckland businessman last year details of an incident involving a senior cabinet minister.

It turned out the businessman had links to another senior National cabinet minister. InvestigateDaily has been told of meetings between the businessman and three senior Government ministers.

Now Nick Preece says he’s been forced into hiding to protect his family because of a police witch-hunt that he believes is driven by the Beehive; a witch-hunt involving electronic eavesdropping and unmarked police cars. If he’s right, the explosive claims would be far more serious than the offence that forced minister Maurice Williamson to resign this month, because it suggests the police have been used to apply pressure on a politically sensitive matter.

“I’ve never disclosed the source that told me, but they were obviously right on the scene, and they were all told, in fact everybody involved in the incident relating to [the Minister] was sworn to secrecy, they all had to sign sworn affidavits of non-disclosure. (full 2000 word feature after the break)


“When my former friend was questioning me, he was throwing names at me – this was down the track when National was obviously concerned at what I knew – he was naming names to me that I knew were related to my informants but I never acknowledged that.”

The former police officer says there was never any suggestion he intended to use the information about the cabinet minister maliciously, as it was deeply personal, not illegal and not a breach of trust in any way, and he now regrets ever mentioning it to his former friend. However, he now also believes that what he knows has made him a target.

“In the last six months, my relationship with my friend has changed, and it’s changed because I have information relating to a Minister. During the course of the subsequent months he started asking more questions about what I knew, and I gave him that information.”

Preece says his friend then mentioned he had passed on the information to one of National’s other top ministers, and that’s when conversations started to become strange, with evidence that he was being ‘bugged’.

“My friend began telling me about email correspondence I’d been having.

“I had struck up an email correspondence with [private investigator and former police prosecutor] Grace Haden, who I read in the Herald was helping Graeme McCready with the private prosecution of John Banks. I just made contact with Grace because she was an ex policewoman – she knew some staff I’d worked with in the police and I really just wanted to find out from her what her involvement in the case was. We started discussing ethics within the police – it’s the role of police to simply gather evidence for a prosecution and put it to the courts to decide, but that was not what happened initially in the Banks investigation and we were both obviously concerned about that.”

“I was told by my friend, who would have had no other way of knowing, that I had communicated with Haden, that I had communicated with Mr McCready – I think I had sent him just one email congratulating him for doing what the police should have done.”

“He told me, he said ‘Nick, you’ve emailed the accountant’, and I thought he meant my own personal accountant, but he went ‘No, no, the accountant McCready’, and he also mentioned Muriel Newman who I had sent some emails to as well.”

If true, the allegations suggest police had been tapping into the email or phone traffic of New Zealand citizens, and that information had then been passed back to the businessman with National Party connections.

Preece says he’s a gun collector and the businessman he spoke to shares a mutual interest in firearms, but he was surprised to see the businessman trying to draw him into phone conversations about possibly purchasing illegal weapons like machineguns for his collection; Preece says he was clearly being “entrapped”.

“For probably a month or so now I’ve had a feeling I’m being put into compromising positions, subjects that I’m not agreeable with were being discussed: anti government type discussions, revolutionary-type discussions, radicals – I just got a really bad feeling. Now in the past this guy had never discussed guns with me on the phone – but in the last few weeks he’s been rattling out discussions about guns and some of them would be classified as illegal, like machineguns and other things that I cannot buy on my current licence – on the phone. I thought this was a bit weird. All the guns I own are guns I am allowed to own under my current classification.”

Preece was further surprised to receive a visit from his local community constable who asked for a tour of Preece’s house and gun-safes, on the pretence of following up a noise abatement notice from five months earlier. The house – far from Auckland city – had also been buzzed by the police helicopter.

“I got a little bit panicky because of the Dotcom thing where a community cop was taken through the house before a raid was conducted, to find out what the layout of the property was and to have a look inside. Given the police helicopter flying over our house, I thought this was really strange.

“As I left our street I noticed a van tailing me, a ute. It dropped off and as I came around Logan Avenue there was another silver Commodore parked on the side of the road which kicked in behind me and started following me – it had two gentlemen in it. As I went up the road my wife came towards me in our family car so I flagged her down and did a U-turn and it was quite hard case because the guys following me shit themselves (like they do in surveillance) and they raced up a side road, and there was another car up there also and they looked a bit panicky.

“I’ve done surveillance, I’ve worked undercover, I know what surveillance people look like and how they behave. I saw too many people who looked familiar hanging around my beach house in Hahei, we found an old van parked in front of the beach house with what looked to be surveillance gear inside it, and there were people visiting that van late at night – my wife actually raised it with me.

“I went to pick up the family vehicle outside my lawyer’s at the weekend and I was definitely surveilled from that location by a white van, it had three very nefarious characters in it, heavily tattooed, biker vests, looked like gang members.

“I did a double U-turn around the Penrose roundabout, and I saw them zoom off because they didn’t want to come on with me, and then when I came around and came back off at Penrose they had done a U-turn on the other side of the road and were sitting opposite me, and they shit themselves as I came up to the intersection because they reversed backwards. Again, I know all these things.”

Nick Preece says he has not returned home for a week and remains on the run, amid fears that police or others are intending to plant incriminating firearms evidence designed to publicly discredit him because of what he knows.

“Last weekend when my wife and I got spooked down in Hahei we raced into town and I did a lot of counter-surveillance measures because I was panicky for my family. We stayed at the Sky City casino and I went down and made one email to my former friend terminating the relationship because I was now aware he was trying to entrap me.

“It was interesting. I had used a backpacker cyber café and the next day I went past there in the morning with me daughter and it was closed, but sitting in a café opposite were three people who looked distinctly like ex-coppers and one of whom looked like another copper I used to know. I did a double-take but they were watching for the internet café and whether I would come back to it.

“The night of the motel down in Broadway (Newmarket), my wife and I booked in and we saw a man, rather large thick-set individual, looked like an agent or ex-detective. He came in and started talking to the Asian owners. He was on the phone while he was talking to them. Immediately afterwards they moved a vehicle away from in front of our unit and they put the big floodlights on that lit up the forecourt around our unit. There were two hotel staff positioned outside in the rain, watching our door, and two more people across the way, also watching our door.

“I didn’t want there to be a raid of any sort on the motel room with my wife and family in it, so I said to her, ‘You guys stay in here, lock the door and don’t open it for anyone, and if anything happens call the police. I’ll go out for the night, so I left, and as soon as I did I saw a car screaming up Broadway into Great South Road, which was almost in sync with someone ringing from the motel to say I had left, and it’s unusual because policemen are the only people that ever indicate when they’re going fast in cars, and this car roared up Great South and indicated at speed into the motel.

“When I saw it do that, I realised they were coming to try and find me. So I ran down through some shops and car yards and found a dumpster, and I ended up sleeping the night inside a dumpster just to stay out of sight. While I was in there I heard the helicopter coming over and lots of cars speeding around the area for quite some time.

“What I think they were looking for was that we had another vehicle parked at 277 Newmarket, which was my mate’s van. I think they were trying to follow that to see if I was going to pick up my gun collection, because without the gun collection in my possession they would not have anything justifying charging me with some horrible gun offence.”

Preece says for his own protection he made an appointment to see a senior barrister.

“I was supposed to meet a Crown solicitor today (Monday May 12), who had cancelled the appointment we originally held for Friday, and he had set that meeting up specifically on Thursday night with my own solicitor Stuart Callender. I’ve made notebook entries of all the events in real detail, there’s three notebooks floating around, and I have made copies of those notebooks as well and I have put them all in secure locations for people to come forward with if anything happens to me or my family.

“I’m just really annoyed that they’re trying to destroy my credibility and integrity. My former friend told me at one point that the Government are absolutely shitting themselves that Kim Dotcom will get traction in the election, and that a successful prosecution of John Banks would give him that traction. The fact that I got in touch with the people prosecuting John Banks I think has caused this escalation.

“I just want to get my life back. I sent my friend an email stating that I wasn’t going to tell anyone what I knew, you tell your people at a higher level, and I’ll just disappear, but obviously they haven’t accepted that because the surveillance actually ramped up after I asked for that.

“We’re a good family, I’ve never had any criminal convictions, I don’t use drugs.”

Preece says he has decided to go public because it sends a warning to those pursuing him, and that sunlight is the best disinfectant. A scandal involving bugging and surveillance of a political threat is presumably the last thing the government wanted in election year.

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## Cordite

Sounds like could be the guy in the original post:

*"
Preece says he’s a gun collector and the businessman he spoke to shares a mutual interest in firearms, but he was surprised to see the businessman trying to draw him into phone conversations about possibly purchasing illegal weapons like machineguns for his collection; Preece says he was clearly being “entrapped”.

“For probably a month or so now I’ve had a feeling I’m being put into compromising positions, subjects that I’m not agreeable with were being discussed: anti government type discussions, revolutionary-type discussions, radicals – I just got a really bad feeling. Now in the past this guy had never discussed guns with me on the phone – but in the last few weeks he’s been rattling out discussions about guns and some of them would be classified as illegal, like machineguns and other things that I cannot buy on my current licence – on the phone. I thought this was a bit weird. All the guns I own are guns I am allowed to own under my current classification.”

Preece was further surprised to receive a visit from his local community constable who asked for a tour of Preece’s house and gun-safes, on the pretence of following up a noise abatement notice from five months earlier. The house – far from Auckland city – had also been buzzed by the police helicopter."*

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## bigbear

And they waited this long to take his guns off him?

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## Cordite

> And they waited this long to take his guns off him?


 @bigbear, haha I see what you mean.

If I thought I was under surveillance by anyone I'm not sure I'd hide or run (unless of course I fear for my life).  But I'd have a whale of a time acting oddly and give them things to write down and follow up -- knock on doors of nice houses asking for directions, or if so and so lives here.  Sit on bench and discretely leave chewing gum on the underside, drop folded up page of magazine in bin with some cyrilic annotations (Russophobia is back in fashion - remember to check under your bed tonight!).  Buy ordnance survey map of Norfolk Island.  Top the cake with an enquiry at Citizens Advice about Grey Power contact persons in the area.

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## Marty Henry

> @bigbear, haha I see what you mean.
> 
> If I thought I was under surveillance by anyone I'm not sure I'd hide or run (unless of course I fear for my life).  But I'd have a whale of a time acting oddly and give them things to write down and follow up -- knock on doors of nice houses asking for directions, or if so and so lives here.  Sit on bench and discretely leave chewing gum on the underside, drop folded up page of magazine in bin with some cyrilic annotations (Russophobia is back in fashion - remember to check under your bed tonight!).  Buy ordnance survey map of Norfolk Island.  Top the cake with an enquiry at Citizens Advice about Grey Power contact persons in the area.


You forgot to mention doing every telephone survey that rings and givin answers well outside the bell curve of normality

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## timattalon

Better still, wait until the microsoft repair guys ring and start up odd conversations with them (coded) dropping words that could cause alarm and see them try and trace the call.....(probably somewhere in India)

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## 300CALMAN

Paranoia aye.. is a pot calling the kettle black?

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## Cordite

> Paranoia aye.. is a pot calling the kettle black?


   @300CALMAN

Who is talking about "paranoia"?  Covert state surveillance in one form or another is part of normal life.

*Overt* surveillance (assuming competent operators) is deniable harassment.

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## kotuku

> @kotuku
> 
> Looks like you had a double one.


well Cordite im so pleased my fears are allayed with an expert like you on this case.
Im curious would you know if ihad an orgasm or wiped my arse or the difference between??oops sorry yes you do -how silly of old me eh!

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## 300CALMAN

> @300CALMAN
> 
> Who is talking about "paranoia"?  Covert state surveillance in one form or another is part of normal life.
> 
> *Overt* surveillance (assuming competent operators) is deniable harassment.


Haha yes I think there is enough information out to assume that, nothing would surprise me anymore.

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## Cordite

Overt surveillance is a way to turn up the heat on some, someone can do it just pretending to do surveillance.  Have a Black Power pad near where we live and they are touchy about people looking at them.  Don't ask how I know.  They do have reason to be shifty and suspicious anyway because of their dealing activities.  If I was the cops, I'd make sure I slow down a bit every time I drove past that place.  They would soon catch on, much quicker than they did at school.

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## Tommy

> Overt surveillance is a way to turn up the heat on some, someone can do it just pretending to do surveillance.  Have a Black Power pad near where we live and they are touchy about people looking at them.  Don't ask how I know.  They do have reason to be shifty and suspicious anyway because of their dealing activities.  If I was the cops, I'd make sure I slow down a bit every time I drove past that place.  They would soon catch on, much quicker than they did at school.


They are actually stupid enough to do majorly illegal shit right at the pad, I think it was BP Rotorua that got raided a while back and they had a full blown lab set up inside.

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## Cordite

> well Cordite im so pleased my fears are allayed with an expert like you on this case.
> Im curious would you know if ihad an orgasm or wiped my arse or the difference between??oops sorry yes you do -how silly of old me eh!


   @kotuku

I'm humbled by your mention of my expertise.  As a 4-star Armchair General, my power of rectospective insight is practically infinite!  Yet, I try my very best to retain my natural humility.

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## kotuku

> @kotuku
> 
> I'm humbled by your mention of my expertise.  As a 4-star Armchair General, my power of rectospective insight is practically infinite!  Yet, I try my very best to retain my natural humility.


youre piss poor at sarcasm!  my observation -funny how the possibility of a slow descent into a psychotic state aint been considered. anyhow like the more sensible until all is revealed were all grasping at straws. wishhart of course -well sensationalism does sell books!
must away got more important things to do than hang around like wet washing on here!

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## timattalon

Bear in mind, Just  because you are paranoid, does not mean you are wrong.......Or if you are right does that still mean it counts as paranoia?

On a more serious note, I would like to believe that Police have more integrity that what was described, especially here in NZ and I would very much like to believe they could not be manipulated into doing something like this (if he is telling the truth). However I do not have the same level of trust in those above the police who make the decisions. You only have to look at the likes of Cahill, and O'Conner to realise the slag and dross usually rises to the top.... If this gents claims are correct and the frontline officers are doing what he describes, then is it because the officer believe what they have been told by those in charge? And do we not have some sort of checks / balances to ensure the safety and integrity of our system.  This does smell like an abuse of power, but how much s true and how much is not, it is hard to tell.

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## Russian 22.

I remember reading about someone who was called paranoid as he reckoned the FBI was spying on him and it turned out to be true!

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

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## Cordite

> Bear in mind, Just  because you are paranoid, does not mean you are wrong.......Or if you are right does that still mean it counts as paranoia?
> 
> On a more serious note, I would like to believe that Police have more integrity that what was described, especially here in NZ and I would very much like to believe they could not be manipulated into doing something like this (if he is telling the truth). However I do not have the same level of trust in those above the police who make the decisions. You only have to look at the likes of Cahill, and O'Conner to realise the slag and dross usually rises to the top.... If this gents claims are correct and the frontline officers are doing what he describes, then is it because the officer believe what they have been told by those in charge? And do we not have some sort of checks / balances to ensure the safety and integrity of our system.  This does smell like an abuse of power, but how much s true and how much is not, it is hard to tell.


 @timattalon

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11892103

I suspect this is not an isolated case, nor that the convicted perpetrator acted alone, but rather that he was a bully among bullies, acting in a (blue) mob and taking the fall.  Let the word go round down the station that such and such is an arsehole and we should be careful of him - and you suddenly get a lot of cop cars driving past that person's house, checking around his business, etc. and all without any paper trail or conspiracy.  Get on the wrong side of the force and you may discover that neither the MM or BP are the biggest patched gang in the country.  Yes, it smells.

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## Russian 22.

> I remember reading about someone who was called paranoid as he reckoned the FBI was spying on him and it turned out to be true!
> 
> Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...veillance.html

Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

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## Cordite

> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...veillance.html
> 
> Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk


 @Russian 22

Someone paranoid may imagine surveillance is being carried out -- which may or may not be the case, but if they appear mentally stressed / paranoid people are not likely to believe them.

The other way to consider it is of course that overt surveillance / official stalking can actually contribute, or even *cause*, someone to have a mental breakdown... 


To quote from your link:

*AE Hotchner said he believed the FBI's monitoring of the Nobel Prize-winning author, over suspicions of his links to Cuba, "substantially contributed to his anguish and his suicide" 50 years ago.

Hotchner wrote in The New York Times that he had "regretfully misjudged" his friend's fears of federal investigators, which were dismissed as paranoid delusions for years after his death.

In 1983 the FBI released a 127-page file it had kept on Hemingway since the 1940s, confirming he was watched by agents working for J. Edgar Hoover, who took a personal interest in his case.

Hotchner described being met off a train by Hemingway in Ketchum, Idaho, in November 1960, for a pheasant shoot with their friend Duke MacMullen.

Hemingway, struggling to complete his last work, complained "the feds" had "tailed us all the way" and that agents were poring over his accounts in a local bank that they passed on their journey.

"It's the worst hell," Hemingway said. "The goddamnedest hell. They've bugged everything. That's why we're using Duke's car. Mine's bugged. Everything's bugged. Can't use the phone. Mail intercepted."

Later that month he was committed for psychiatric care at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, where he received electric shock treatment. He attempted suicide several times before being released.

A few days after returning home to Ketchum, he shot himself in the head with his favourite shotgun aged 61.

"In the years since, I have tried to reconcile Ernest's fear of the FBI, which I regretfully misjudged, with the reality of the FBI file," wrote Hotchner, the author of 'Papa Hemingway'.

"I now believe he truly sensed the surveillance, and that it substantially contributed to his anguish and his suicide," he said.*

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## Kudu

> And the 6th line quotes him as saying no protection order was served...
> 
> Certainly seems that there is more to the story than what has been reported.


Yes, but they were doing both at the same time. He may be 100% correct that no PO had been served previously. However that is what they were there to do at that time. Serve the order and remove there firearms at the same time.

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## GravelBen

> Yes, but they were doing both at the same time. He may be 100% correct that no PO had been served previously. However that is what they were there to do at that time. Serve the order and remove there firearms at the same time.


It doesn't say anything about previously though, they quote him as saying 'no PO was served' when talking about the raid. Could just be the usual hopeless reporting either way.

Wouldn't be the first time cops have lied to try and cover their asses if they're in the wrong, the times they get caught do make you wonder how often they do it and get away with it.

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## systolic

> It doesn't say anything about previously though, *they quote him as saying 'no PO was served' when talking about the raid*. Could just be the usual hopeless reporting either way.
> 
> Wouldn't be the first time cops have lied to try and cover their asses if they're in the wrong, the times they get caught do make you wonder how often they do it and get away with it.


If you listen to the audio of the guy talking, when he says that no order was served, he was saying that while the cops were still outside while he was refusing to let them in.

Perhaps the cops served it after they got in and after he had finished talking to the media? And before the chief cop told the media it had been served.

Makes more sense to me than taking the whole AOS and then just not serving the order they went there to serve.

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## outlander

> well Cordite im so pleased my fears are allayed with an expert like you on this case.
> Im curious would you know if ihad an orgasm or wiped my arse or the difference between??oops sorry yes you do -how silly of old me eh!


Jeesus...

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## Cordite

> Jeesus...


 @outlander

He was tired.

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## outlander

> @outlander
> 
> He was tired.


Oh, okay. That explains it then, I guess. :Thumbsup:

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## kotuku

> @outlander
> 
> He was tired.


tired my arse -there you go again more assumptions

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## Cordite

@kotuku

Not a real assumption, I was actually just making up an excuse for you.  So it's on the record now, you were not tired.

Wife to husband upon leaving a party:  "You made a right arse of yourself, just hope nobody realises you were sober."

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## outlander

> @kotuku
> 
> Not a real assumption, I was actually just making up an excuse for you.  So it's on the record now, you were not tired.
> 
> Wife to husband upon leaving a party:  "You made a right arse of yourself, just hope nobody realises you were sober."


 Cordite,you really do need to take more care of your mate, Kotuku. It seems been tired effects him more than others.

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## Cordite

> Cordite,you really do need to take more care of your mate, Kotuku. It seems been tired effects him more than others.


 @outlander

Hmm, yes, I think I see the point you're trying to get across.

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## kotuku

meh -couldnt give a flying fuck either way-perfectly capable of looking after myself without self appointed minders - bugger off and find someone else to harass!

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## Cordite

@kotuku

No worries mate.

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