# Hunting > Game Bird Hunting >  12ga 3" Steel

## MattyP

So where does everyone get their steel shot? Any good bulk discounts around?

Yet to pattern some really. Just wondering if there's any popular place people buy from or just the usuals - Gun City, H&F, etc?

Anyone with a Benelli M2 with any steel recommendations?

Oh and is Kemen total rubbish  :Psmiley: ?

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## stug

Falcon 35gr (High Velocity?) #3 or #4. It's not 3" only 2 3/4", but it is bloody good. i use it in my Benelli M2. Try the farming stores or Gunworks, it's too cheap for the big chains to stock.

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## Breda

I've used a range of ammo. Haven't found much need for 3 inch. Falcon 32 and 35 gram loads are very good (Farmlands) as is NSI ammo  (the mai mai supplies)- both at very reasonably priced. You'd probably have good results with Elley ammo which is easily accessible to most with H&F stores everywhere and it's not badly priced.

I mostly use an M2 with quarter choke and 35 gram 2 3/4 inch loads in shot size 4.

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## MattyP

Thanks I was leaning towards Falcon, will give some a go.

You guys mostly using #4's for everything? Or do you use more for geese?

Having trouble seeing why you'd go with the 3" if the specs on Gunworks site is right:

1. Ultra Steel 35 - 2 & 3/4", 35grams of shot, 1460fps.
2. Super Steel 36 - 3", 36 grams of shot, 1460fps.

Really...from the couple of 3" i've shot that's a lot more kick for another 2.8% of shot and the same velocity. That sound right to anyone?

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## stug

Yep 3" seems to kick a bit more than the 35gr load in my M2. I haven't tried the 35gr #4 load but I've been impressed with the 35gr #3 load through the 1/4 choke out to 35ish yards. But I've seen some good reports of the #4 load.

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## Dundee

Remmy works for me

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## Brooke

If you live in Christchurch, it would be worth seeing what steel ammo that Fosters Chainsaws have stock (they only stock Hull ammo and only the store located on Blenheim Road sells ammo)

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## Lentil

Been using the Falcon 3" - first shot 1 1/4oz of 4's, then 1-1/8 of 3's. Really good results. Also tried some new NSI from Maimai supplies 1-3/8oz of #3 and impressed with that also. Did a pattern test during a lull in the action, and the NSI had a great pattern.
We had very few woundies using any of the above loads, and never even got the boat out on the lake on opening day.
I haven't used the 2-3/4 Falcon yet, but I am sure it would be just as good. I just like the extra number of pellets in the 3 inch shells, but dead with 3 inch is just as dead with 2-3/4!!!!

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## C404

Game Bore 2 3/4" also is a good round. 
I get a sore shoulder when I just see the words 3", but that's just me these days. 
And like others have said, if you are going to miss with a 2 3/4" load you are still going to miss with a 3" load.
As far as a shot size, probably no.4 steel is going to be pretty much as good as an all rounder you could use?  The larger shot sizes seem to rip up the birds a bit too much, but then again, each to his own.

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## MattyP

> Remmy works for me
> Attachment 36505Attachment 36506


What shot size Dundee?

The NSI stuff looks decent and well priced too. Hadn't heard of that so thx very much.

C404 where do you get your GameBore stuff? I've had trouble finding it other than 1 place online and it seems to be by the pack only and not the case. I'd buy a pack first to test it, but not much point if the cases of it are so bloody expensive. There was a guy selling on trademe for nice prices but seems to have disappeared.

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## stug

Gunworks is $138 for a slab of Falcon Ultra steel 35gr Gunworks Ltd - 12gauge

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## Bonecrusher

12ga Clever Mirage Super Magnum Soft Steel T3 39 gram #4 - 12 Gauge Steel - Shotgun - Ammunition - Reloaders Supplies Ltd

I have been using these this season with very good results #4 patterns well out of my semi and my pass shooting has improved out of sight.

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## Dundee

> What shot size Dundee?
> 
> The NSI stuff looks decent and well priced too. Hadn't heard of that so thx very much.
> 
> C404 where do you get your GameBore stuff? I've had trouble finding it other than 1 place online and it seems to be by the pack only and not the case. I'd buy a pack first to test it, but not much point if the cases of it are so bloody expensive. There was a guy selling on trademe for nice prices but seems to have disappeared.


3shot

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## gadgetman

Check out Shooters Supplies in Riccarton Road. I got some Mirage Clever from there last year. Cant really tell you how good it is yet, still waiting for something to shoot.

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## Micky Duck

gamebore in Temuka shop.

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## MattyP

Visited Gunworks and got a box of Falcon Ultra Steel 35 and Super Steel 36, both #4's. Will see how they pattern.

Also got a box of Falcon Club 28 which I shot DTL with tonight. I like!! Will just check pattern when I get a chance then buy a case if its good.

The Falcon Elite didn't go as good which shitted me off. It's Gold. And it says Elite on it. God damn it!

Got some slugs too...looking forward to playing with them.

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## Scouser

Great thread Matt,  reminds us all each shottie versus ammo will give different results. ....being a tight wad I always recon I hit the bird with 'anything' but experience has told me different. ....

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## kotuku

im a fan of Barry fosters hull "solway magnum"3"34gm loads 3 shot.they stop all and sundry.in the 2 3/4 line Im not overly fussy as the escort seems to go OK.Barry is stocking 2/34 Hull ammo now ,so will have to purchase some.his hull trap ammo is also good shit -and well priced.

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## Toby

GB at farmlands is the best ammo I've ever used. Sadly they didnt sell it this year they had falcon

For my 20g the best has been fiocchi

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## MattyP

I haven't had much luck with hull. In saying that it's probably hard for me to truly tell what's decent just from shooting clays. But I didn't shoot very well with it. Haven't patterned it or anything - maybe I just shot poorly.

Have heard constant good things about Gamebore, will have to try some - next on the list. If that freak George Digweed uses it then what more is there to say I guess.

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## gsp follower

> The* Falcon Elite* didn't go as good which shitted me off. It's Gold. And it says Elite on it. God damn it!


see funny how ones man gold is another mans poison  :Grin: 
when i shot a 12 the falcon elite was my favourie first barrel pheasant load.
the beauty of the 2 3/4 inch steel is its fast in shot sizes down to 5,s i think and dont boot on the shoulder or wallet.
c404 at his peak was deadly with it in 3,s on ducks geese swans  the lot

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## C404

You mean I am past my peak, young fella?
I have news for you ha ha

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## MattyP

Ok - did some testing. Please let me know your thoughts on the below seeing as I don't really know what a "good" pattern is!

I tested two loads:

1. Falcon Ultra Steel 35 #4's. 2,3/4 inch shells, 1460fps. Load of 35grams (obviously).
2. Falcon Super Steel 36 #4's. 3 inch shells, 1460fps. Load of 36grams.

Here are some photos.

ULTRA 35 AT 30YDS (1 SHOT):



SUPER 36 AT 30YDS (1 SHOT):



ULTRA 35 AT 30YDS (4 SHOTS):



SUPER 36 AT 30YDS (4 SHOTS):



Thoughts on how these performed at 30yds? To my mind I think the lighter load did better (35's). It has a more even coverage anyway. The 36's are a bit tighter together over on the left and on the duck picture, but there seems to be substantial gaps over to the right (top right, bottom right, even middle right). This is hidden a bit in the 4 shot ones, but still there.

Next at 40yds:

ULTRA 35 AT 40YDS (1 SHOT):



SUPER 36 AT 40YDS (1 SHOT):



Here again I think the 35's did better. It's not exactly a massive difference but that's what I reckon. Just a bit more of an even coverage. Thoughts? It surprised me that they seem to have outperformed the larger load but I guess that's why people go on about making sure you pattern. Am I misreading them?

Lastly, for good measure - ULTRA 35 AT 40YDS (4 SHOTS):



Again, seems like pretty decent coverage. Are these patterns any good, or rubbish?

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## kotuku

relating that to autopsies Ive done breasting birds and processing mallards id say any of em would effectively"fuck a duck "finitoLooks at the spread around chest /neck junction-heart lungs etc will all be irreparably damaged.50/50 chance also of a wing break again terminal.

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## Micky Duck

thems would be dead ducks. don't be afraid to try out a lod of #2s aswell....far better for parries and you may just be surprised.
the old plain Jane Winchester xpert loads are good killing loads....lumpy bump shot and all. infact I think that is part of reason why they work.

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## Breda

What you are doing is taking a snapshot of a random shot pattern but it is a 2 dimensional solution to a 3 dimensional problem. A pattern does not arrive flat but is elongated with pellets arriving first then last (obviously). If you fired five shots (at separate sheets) you're unlikely to get the same pattern. (shooting four shots at one sheet doesn't tell you much other than you were consistent with your deliberate point of aim)

For my mind a point of impact test is far more critical to good shooting with a shotgun as it is mostly about gun fit and impulse (as well as self control and shooting within your ability). To do your pattern test you deliberately aim (rifle) at the pattern sheet. An action that will see mostly misses on moving game.....

When I look at your sheets I think you have got your *choke selection* spot on from 35 yards and closer with around 20 odd effective pellets, though you maybe shooting slightly left. That same choke looks ok at 40 yards but will let you down occasionally at this range and beyond with around 9 effective pellets. Something also worth considering is that at 40 yards your pellets are doing a great job at punching through paper but will be loosing energy and penetrative power for game. If you feel you are a good enough shot to shoot regularly at 40 yards you might like to test the next choke down?

You can read too much into patterns. I pretty much leave my quarter choke in and rely on my ability select a target I know I can kill by putting the shot and target on a collision coarse. That 35 gram load of 4's you've tested has proved very effective on everything up to Canada's when shot in such a way.

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## MattyP

> What you are doing is taking a snapshot of a random shot pattern but it is a 2 dimensional solution to a 3 dimensional problem. A pattern does not arrive flat but is elongated with pellets arriving first then last (obviously). If you fired five shots (at separate sheets) you're unlikely to get the same pattern. (shooting four shots at one sheet doesn't tell you much other than you were consistent with your deliberate point of aim)
> 
> For my mind a point of impact test is far more critical to good shooting with a shotgun as it is mostly about gun fit and impulse (as well as self control and shooting within your ability). To do your pattern test you deliberately aim (rifle) at the pattern sheet. An action that will see mostly misses on moving game.....
> 
> When I look at your sheets I think you have got your *choke selection* spot on from 35 yards and closer with around 20 odd effective pellets, though you maybe shooting slightly left. That same choke looks ok at 40 yards but will let you down occasionally at this range and beyond with around 9 effective pellets. Something also worth considering is that at 40 yards your pellets are doing a great job at punching through paper but will be loosing energy and penetrative power for game. If you feel you are a good enough shot to shoot regularly at 40 yards you might like to test the next choke down?
> 
> You can read too much into patterns. I pretty much leave my quarter choke in and rely on my ability select a target I know I can kill by putting the shot and target on a collision coarse. That 35 gram load of 4's you've tested has proved very effective on everything up to Canada's when shot in such a way.


Thanks very much for that Tim.

Those shots were all fired with a Mod choke. I have not shot at anything live with my shotgun yet, so I couldn't say what ranges i'll be comfortable with. That is the tightest choke that I got with my Benelli M2 that is rated for steel shot though. Full and IM say no steel on them. 

I have seen a lot of the aftermarket chokes advertised and may eventually get one of them, but I hear the problem then is that for regular range shots it rips things apart. I suppose that doesn't matter if you aren't going to eat whatever you are shooting at though!

I guess what i'm asking is are those patterns acceptable enough to warrant getting a slab of either of them - or should I do more testing with other ammo? Are they average patterns, bad patterns or good patterns? I have no basis for comparison so need you guys to chip in on that.

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## MattyP

Oh and I better add that I shot one of the slugs at 100yds  :Grin: . That was super fun. Was only a couple inches off what I aimed at too - pretty impressed with the accuracy. I love these shotgun things  :Thumbsup: .

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## stug

Use the IC choke inside 30-35 yds and modified if you are on Ellesmere.

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## gsp follower

how did you find the recoil of both loads given shot wieght is relatively the same was there a big diff between the 3 inch and 2 3/4 ??
i know the light m2 is a kicker but the difference between the 35/36 gram loads and the 30 gram hi velocity2 3/4  gamebores is marked in the boot stakes without effecting bird taking ability.



> *You mean I am past my peak, young fella?
> I have news for you ha ha*


nah mate only that you,ve come to the dark [subgauge] side of the force well partialy :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## MattyP

> how did you find the recoil of both loads given shot wieght is relatively the same was there a big diff between the 3 inch and 2 3/4 ??
> i know the light m2 is a kicker but the difference between the 35/36 gram loads and the 30 gram hi velocity2 3/4  gamebores is marked in the boot stakes without effecting bird taking ability.
> 
> nah mate only that you,ve come to the dark [subgauge] side of the force well partialy


The 3" kicked noticeably harder. Which is weird for 1gram more shot but i guess theres a fair bit more powder in there even if the boxes do say theyre both the same speed.

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## kotuku

Gadget ,that stuff will literally stop anything in its tracks .Have seen C 404  take ducks ,and geese with 2 7/8 rounds. Weird shit though it has a very unusual crack as its fired and is bloody dirty.Apparently in a light gun it kicks kicks like an elephant cow with PMT&PMS.
 no probs in my mighty escort though -she handles it with a genteel push!
 In short -its an ammo that Im bloody impressed with.

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## gsp follower

> The 3" kicked noticeably harder. Which is weird for 1gram more shot but i guess theres a fair bit more powder in there even if the boxes do say theyre both the same speed.


probably not as  much more as you,d think maybe faster burning and   better combination of components youd hope :Have A Nice Day: 
if i could get drake mallards to present them selves in the target fashion everytime and maybe hold the pose for a second or 3 id have more ducks in the freezer :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:  but thats the art of it knowing when to shoot and what your gun/shot combination will do when you stroke the trigger then its just a matter of doing your part :O O:  :O O:  :Grin:  was good to meet matty p and get him out for a shot stumpy says gidday by the way. shame nothing was about apart from 2 boot leather parries and about 6 ducks headed else where.but by your next down time things should be  improving.

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## kotuku

cheeky prick!matty ,gimme a yodel willya -ya left a ticket in the truck!alls good regardless of whatever happens.

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## MattyP

Haha - that shitty scratch and win from the servo? Just PM me what the details were and i'll text it in and win nothing!

Was great to meet ya both and i'll be back in town on the 8th of June until the 16th if you keep that in mind if you're keen for another! I know I am!

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## gsp follower

> Haha - that shitty scratch and win from the servo? Just PM me what the details were and i'll text it in and win nothing!
> 
> Was great to meet ya both and i'll be back in town on the 8th of June until the 16th if you keep that in mind if you're keen for another! I know I am!


hope you like blackberry matty buy some a box of skeet 9,s for the benelli :Grin:

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## MattyP

Really? Ok! Can we find another tree to park on too?

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## gadgetman

> Really? Ok! Can we find another tree to park on too?


Funnier when he parks on the same one again.

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## gsp follower

> Funnier when he parks on the same one again.


yep be like his own personal river tree stand tho parking a car up it might be considered excessive :Grin:

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## kotuku

oh ye of little faith.A little exercise before a cuppa &a stroll never did anyone any harm! :Psmiley: 
anyhow im adding another 2ton jack,plus my hi lift one to the coffin in the back,and the 6 ton has been replaced so alls good. :Wink: 
hmmmmm memo to self -talk to son re fitting a dozer blade to truck for track mods as we go! :Thumbsup: 
 thats only the third time the gooserolla has ever been temporarily immobilised :Zomg:

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## MattyP

You might need a dozer blade on the back too?  :Grin: 

Nice additions to the coffin!

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## Micky Duck

need PHOTOS......this "on stump parking" thing may catch on....

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## gsp follower

> need PHOTOS......this "on stump parking" thing may catch on....


micky we were so worried we may be stuck there nobody thought of it :O O:

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## kotuku

what happens in the riverbed stays in the riverbed  :O O: ,and go find your own bloody stump to park on! :Wtfsmilie:  sheesh do i have yo show you lot everything???? :ORLY:

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## gsp follower

> need PHOTOS......this "on stump parking" thing may catch on....


the real trick is micky getting the log to pivot under the diff so you get the wheels airborne :Grin: 
that takes real experience :O O:  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## gadgetman

> the real trick is micky getting the log to pivot under the diff so you get the wheels airborne
> that takes real experience


I've had that with a logging contractor with his tractor come log skidder. Was not long after giving me the lecture on cutting low to avoid the problem, and yes it was one he'd cut.

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## kotuku

just goes to show what a mighty beast the gooserolla is. was a good chance to test out my recovery gear anyhow,.including axle stands.
 actually next time were up there i should load that log and bring it home to GSPFs pad so hes got a permanent reminder to squat and giggle on!

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## gsp follower

> just goes to show what a mighty beast the gooserolla is. was a good chance to test out my recovery gear anyhow,.including axle stands.
>  actually next time were up there i should load that log and bring it home to GSPFs pad so hes got a permanent reminder to squat and giggle on!


i could have it mounted if theres a willing taxidermist :Grin: 
make a great corner piece.

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