# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  7saum vs 280ai vs 7blaser vs?

## PerazziSC3

So I'm going to do another build.

Blaser rifle so it's essentially a long action, I have all the bolt heads so can be magnum or non magnum 

Want it to replace my 300 win mag for typical South Island hunting. Will have a vx5  3-15 on top. Will not have a brake, possibly a suppressor 

What would everyone do in say a 22" max barrel... 

Keen to hear what numbers people are getting with 162 + projectiles

Also need to consider availability of brass, all look difficult but blaser mag is looking impossible

----------


## 7mmsaum

7mmsaum

----------


## stug

280ai at least you can make your own brass. I’d just go 7mm rem mag.

----------


## PerazziSC3

> 280ai at least you can make your own brass. I’d just go 7mm rem mag.


I really don't want another belted magnum, for no real reason

----------


## camo wsm

7mm SAUM for sure, ADG or Norma brass and easily 2900 with 162's at 22"

----------


## dannyb

300wsm is where it's at  :Cool:  brass is obtainable and huge selection of projectiles especially if you go heavy.
I'll be taking my 19" 300wsm to the range tomorrow I'll let ya know how I get on with the 200eldx

----------


## Shearer

> 7mmsaum


Surprising answer :Grin:

----------


## Tim Dicko

wonder how a 7mm saum would push a 180 @ 22 inchs. Any one know . ? 7mm saum would be my pick .

----------


## BRADS

> 300wsm is where it's at  brass is obtainable and huge selection of projectiles especially if you go heavy.
> I'll be taking my 19" 300wsm to the range tomorrow I'll let ya know how I get on with the 200eldx


It's 2022 mate not 2002 
I'd go 7mm blaser all day over the other 2, 
I ran the 180eldm at 3050 and it was deadly on big reds.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

----------


## dannyb

> It's 2022 mate not 2002 
> I'd go 7mm blaser all day over the other 2, 
> I ran the 180eldm at 3050 and it was deadly on big reds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk


Righto  :36 1 5:

----------


## PerazziSC3

> It's 2022 mate not 2002 
> I'd go 7mm blaser all day over the other 2, 
> I ran the 180eldm at 3050 and it was deadly on big reds.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk


It was my first choice at heart but brass is simply not available, even overseas.

----------


## Kelton

Should still get 2800-2850 with the right powders RL26  @Tim Dicko il try it when I get around to it just cause. Mines only 20” and breaking in but 20” still slings 168 bergers at 2975 . I no another guy using 175 bergers at 2780 still on break in with 2209 and still working up the powder charges

----------


## chainsaw

Having owned all 3, the 7mmBM is hands down the best if you are chasing max long range performance. Very similar experience to @BRADS, mine is pushing 180 VLDs at 3060fps. Even with a 22in bbl the BM is a big step up over the other two. 280ai you’re getting very close to Rem Mag performance and a slightly better speed than SAUM. 280ai running N560 gets me 2980 fps with 162AMAX out of 24in bbl.  SAUM with 22in bbl, pushing 168 Berger’s at 2930 fps w RL23.  But I doubt the deer will tell the difference between the two. :Thumbsup:

----------


## PerazziSC3

Yep I've had a 7mm saum and 280ai in the past. The 280ai would actually suit the blaser action better. But the 7mm blaser would make the most of it and still be tolerable without brake or suppressor...

----------


## 6x47

> .. 280ai you’re getting very close to Rem Mag performance and a slightly better speed than SAUM. ..


I like and use the Ackley but I'd never say it'll match let alone outdo a SAUM for velocity, everything else being equal.

----------


## Noswal

Ive run the numbers on all 3 and there isnt much in it.
The Saum is definitely the most efficient by the numbers.
Less powder and mid velocity the (280ai 2840fps) (Saum 2850fps) (BlaserM 2885fps +10gr powder)
Thats the QL results and I checked a number of powder options.

----------


## PerazziSC3

> I’ve run the numbers on all 3 and there isn’t much in it.
> The Saum is definitely the most efficient by the numbers.
> Less powder and mid velocity but the (280ai 2840fps) (Saum 2850fps) (BlaserM 2885fps +10gr powder)
> That’s the QL results and I checked a number of powder options.


What pills and pressure

----------


## GWH

> Should still get 2800-2850 with the right powders RL26  @Tim Dicko il try it when I get around to it just cause. Mines only 20” and breaking in but 20” still slings 168 bergers at 2975 . I no another guy using 175 bergers at 2780 still on break in with 2209 and still working up the powder charges


A 22" saum should go somewhere around 2950 with a 180gr with Re26. My 22" 284 can push 180s at 2830 easy as with re26. Saw 2900 in load development but she was well up there.

I have tried the 180s in my 22" Saum as yet. The 162s at 3050 kill so damn well even well out there around 750.

I have a 28 Nosler pushing 195s at 3100 too.

But the 7mm BM would be a nice option for sure if you could find some brass.

----------


## Noswal

I ran a touch over standard length so seating them out will have an effect. The Blaser mag runs 5000 less pressure so 60??? The other two 65000. That’s just numbers though.  @GWH has all the experience shooting the Saum.
180gr pills

----------


## Kelton

Yip my blaser mag was 68gns of rl26 for 3060 with 180s so still very efficient my saum is 63.6 with 168s . Look at the 7LRM @PerazziSC3 brass should be easier to find and probably closest to the blaser and no longer doomed with average brass

----------


## Kelton

> I’ve run the numbers on all 3 and there isn’t much in it.
> The Saum is definitely the most efficient by the numbers.
> Less powder and mid velocity the (280ai 2840fps) (Saum 2850fps) (BlaserM 2885fps +10gr powder)
> That’s the QL results and I checked a number of powder options.


The blaser takes about 4gns more my mate ran his at 21” for 2910ish from memory with 180s

----------


## PerazziSC3

> Yip my blaser mag was 68gns of rl26 for 3060 with 180s so still very efficient my saum is 63.6 with 168s . Look at the 7LRM @PerazziSC3 brass should be easier to find and probably closest to the blaser and no longer doomed with average brass


7lrm brass seems just as impossible. But yes that was certainly another option

----------


## Kelton

> A 22" saum should go somewhere around 2950 with a 180gr with Re26. My 22" 284 can push 180s at 2830 easy as with re26. Saw 2900 in load development but she was well up there.
> 
> I have tried the 180s in my 22" Saum as yet. The 162s at 3050 kill so damn well even well out there around 750.
> 
> I have a 28 Nosler pushing 195s at 3100 too.
> 
> But the 7mm BM would be a nice option for sure if you could find some brass.


Yip iv got my big pill slinger 180/195 on the way once the last of the parts arrive so trying the 180s in the saum is purely science I won’t be going away from the 160 weights

----------


## chainsaw

> Yep I've had a 7mm saum and 280ai in the past. The 280ai would actually suit the blaser action better. But the 7mm blaser would make the most of it and still be tolerable without brake or suppressor...


I found the recoil of BM not too different to RM, slightly sharper but very manageable even without brake or suppressor.

----------


## Noswal

> The blaser takes about 4gns more my mate ran his at 21” for 2910ish from memory with 180s


That’s great. I’ve loaded for a Saum but not the others. These are simply the numbers I got from QL as I said. They’re not real. It’s a guide at best.
I didn’t have any actual inputs other than the generated program ones.

----------


## Nick.m

This is from my 280ai and 180eldms. Currently in the process of developing a 168grn load which is showing promise.

----------


## Kelton

> That’s great. I’ve loaded for a Saum but not the others. These are simply the numbers I got from QL as I said. They’re not real. It’s a guide at best.
> I didn’t have any actual inputs other than the generated program ones.



I don’t actually have the saum real world data with the 180 so that 4 gns difference might grow not knowing where the saum would land with powder charge and 180s, it crossed my mind as soon as I wrote it that I’m comparing 168 real world saum for 180 real world blaser so apples for oranges I will certainly give it a go

----------


## PerazziSC3

Now I'm thinking 6.5prc... brass easy to get, still packs enough punch to 600m

----------


## outdoorlad

> Now I'm thinking 6.5prc... brass easy to get, still packs enough punch to 600m


Now your talking, your welcome to have a couple shots with my blaser one.

----------


## Kelton

What length action is it?

----------


## outdoorlad

> What length action is it?


Mine? R93 and I run a 300WSM mag insert, can also use a 300Win Mag insert (so Medium or long)

----------


## Kelton

The ops sorry

----------


## PerazziSC3

> The ops sorry


Same, r93. Can be a 223 or generous 300 win

----------


## PerazziSC3

> Mine? R93 and I run a 300WSM mag insert, can also use a 300Win Mag insert (so Medium or long)


Does the 300wsm mag have a bolt stop? I practice fed some 7mmsaum rounds and they seemed to work fine in my 300 win magazine

----------


## Matt2308

Go with the SAUM if you are wanting to stick with a 22 barrel. 
Really rate my Blaser Mag, but brass is very hard to find, I did go online and purchase 100 pieces from abroad a couple of days ago, but its not currently in production so when new stock arrives is anyones guess. 
Im running a 180 ELD-M at 3060fps from a 25 barrel and most of them seem to run a similar node.

----------


## Kelton

For once 6.5 is probably the easiest to find bits for at the moment which really is the number one deciding factor now days

----------


## ChrisW

Iv got a "custom" 7mm magnum barrel. I think its 30" long, with a really really long throat. (so long it can be seated so the top of the boat tail can sit flush with the bottom of the case neck).
It got up and over 3100fps with the 180gr ELDM.

----------


## outdoorlad

> Does the 300wsm mag have a bolt stop? I practice fed some 7mmsaum rounds and they seemed to work fine in my 300 win magazine


Yeah I think so, I was using a 300Win mag insert until my 300WSM one arrived

----------


## Gkp

Definitely a saum.
Love the 20 inch barrel on mine

----------


## PerazziSC3

So can people actually buy saum brass? Because I can't find any let along 7mm projectiles...

----------


## Danny

Id say the 7BM still as its obviously what you want and brass (not too long back was acquirable), its second to none in my opinion. 
2nd on my list would be the 6.5 Prc.  

Its a build so get what you want.

----------


## Kelton

> So can people actually buy saum brass? Because I can't find any let along 7mm projectiles...


Both come in waves for 7 saum I spied Norma brass not long ago eldx and  eldm . Prc seems to have the most stocked components at the moment dies being the big one . Brass was easy for my blaser 4 years ago dies were very hard to come by and saum dies are just as hard at the moment theirs word of Norma dropping the blaser mag from their line aswell so hopfully someone good picks it up if this is true

----------


## 7mmsaum

> So can people actually buy saum brass? Because I can't find any let along 7mm projectiles...


There’s three packets of Nosler saum brass in invercargil and lots of ADG with our friendly forum advertiser

And there’s any amount hoarded around NZ 

I know where there’s 5 packets of brand new Remington saum brass 

And I think I have three packets here 

Bruce Bertram has saum brass as well 

It’s not hard to find

And you don’t need dies when any number of guys on the forum can assemble ammo for you 

Just ask, most members would help someone needing ammo made

----------


## Bill999

Man this thread makes me want to AI my 280


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Noswal

The 6.5prc is a pretty sweet load. The advantage over the 6.5x284 comes with the fast twist and heavy high BC pills. If you were going to run 143gr for example there’s not much between them. The 156gr Berger is where it shines.
Love loading for it. Bought one at a good price and my mate must have agreed because he bought it straight off me for the same money.

----------


## Kelton

> The 6.5prc is a pretty sweet load. The advantage over the 6.5x284 comes with the fast twist and heavy high BC pills. If you were going to run 143gr for example there’s not much between them. The 156gr Berger is where it shines.
> Love loading for it. Bought one at a good price and my mate must have agreed because he bought it straight off me for the same money.



Agree on the berger it’s lethal

----------


## PerazziSC3

Going 6.5 PRC. Will get a trueflite barrel screwed into one of these

----------


## Kelton

Forgot how long that bloody pill is

----------


## Norway

> Now your talking, your welcome to have a couple shots with my blaser one.


What V0 are you getting with your PRC in the Blaser?
I'm getting a "faster" 6.5 again and it's 6.5x284 (have the dies) or 6.5 PRC (better future availability I suspect.

I take it no feeding issues (as is the Blaser standard)?

----------


## Rich007

Where did you get your BEAR8 (or R93 version) from? Did you import it yourself?





> Attachment 197851
> 
> Going 6.5 PRC. Will get a trueflite barrel screwed into one of these 
> 
> 
> Attachment 197852

----------


## PerazziSC3

> Where did you get your BEAR8 (or R93 version) from? Did you import it yourself?


Just buy straight from AKILA and get an import permit from this end. Hasn't arrived yet (r93 version just getting made)

----------


## 7mmsaum

> Forgot how long that bloody pill is




Have you tried a 6.5 rem mag 

Built on 7mm rem mag rifles you can easily accomodate the longer projectiles 

Improved velocity on many new chamberings,  and no shortage of brass

----------


## Kelton

> Have you tried a 6.5 rem mag 
> 
> Built on 7mm rem mag rifles you can easily accomodate the longer projectiles 
> 
> Improved velocity on many new chamberings,  and no shortage of brass


No I have not the only magnum 6.5 iv had was 6.5 Saum the rest dont interest me I got 3080fps with the 156 from a 22” barrel . I like short action cartridges and the saum out runs the prc and I’d sooner a 7mm rem than a 6.5 rem anyhow

----------


## 7mmsaum

> No I have not the only magnum 6.5 iv had was 6.5 Saum the rest dont interest me I got 3080fps with the 156 from a 22” barrel . I like short action cartridges and the saum out runs the prc and I’d sooner a 7mm rem than a 6.5 rem anyhow


You got the point I was making  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Kelton

> You got the point I was making


Don’t get me wrong the 6.5 killed it just was lacklustre compared to 7mms really lacked that blow them off their feet out of all the cartridges in the heading of this thread the wild card won and I suspect mostly due to availability no point having any of the above if you can’t feed it

----------


## PerazziSC3

> Don’t get me wrong the 6.5 killed it just was lacklustre compared to 7mms really lacked that blow them off their feet out of all the cartridges in the heading of this thread the wild card won and I suspect mostly due to availability no point having any of the above if you can’t feed it


Pretty much, walked into one shop and purchased everything I needed. 

I've had a 7mm rem mag, 7mmsaum, 280ai (2x), 300wsm, 300 win plus many other magnums that all roughly do about the same thing. 6.5prc is the smallest capacity of all mentioned so of course going to be slightly slower but still going to do the job. I'm going to try a dpt non magnum on it as well, they say can handle up to 30-06 capacity which is what the 6.5 prc is. Another saving as I already have one.

----------


## Kelton

> Pretty much, walked into one shop and purchased everything I needed. 
> 
> I've had a 7mm rem mag, 7mmsaum, 280ai (2x), 300wsm, 300 win plus many other magnums that all roughly do about the same thing. 6.5prc is the smallest capacity of all mentioned so of course going to be slightly slower but still going to do the job. I'm going to try a dpt non magnum on it as well, they say can handle up to 30-06 capacity which is what the 6.5 prc is. Another saving as I already have one.


Correct the other consideration is bbl length I can’t remember what the cut off is 20” maybe @Friwi?

----------


## PerazziSC3

@veitnamcam what's the loads and velocity you are running, does it kill things?

----------


## grandpamac

> Attachment 197851
> 
> Going 6.5 PRC. Will get a trueflite barrel screwed into one of these 
> 
> 
> Attachment 197852


Greetings All,
To someone who purchased his first centre fire rifle in the 1960's that cartridge looks weird. Still it is performance that counts not what some old fudd thinks looks cool.
Please keep us up to date on this one.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## PerazziSC3

> Greetings All,
> To someone who purchased his first centre fire rifle in the 1960's that cartridge looks weird. Still it is performance that counts not what some old fudd thinks looks cool.
> Please keep us up to date on this one.
> Regards Grandpamac.


Projectile is just sitting in case, not actually seated

----------


## veitnamcam

> @veitnamcam what's the loads and velocity you are running, does it kill things?


153atip Hornady brass 56gr RL26 215 primer COAL .30065" 2985fps from 22"

It certainly does up close(less than 300y) I haven't had to test it's long range terminal effects yet but the atip appears to penitrate a bit then open up....more like a Berger or Targex than a Amax or Eldm.
I hope they work at longer ranges....my googling suggests that they do.
Have shot steel out to a K which is about as far as I can go with single turn turret and stacked a nice group consistent with data.
I'm pushing them out of a 7 twist so the extra rpm may help expansion or not....

----------


## Micky Duck

> Pretty much, walked into one shop and purchased everything I needed. 
> 
> I've had a 7mm rem mag, 7mmsaum, 280ai (2x), 300wsm, 300 win plus many other magnums that all roughly do about the same thing. 6.5prc is the smallest capacity of all mentioned so of course going to be slightly slower but still going to do the job. I'm going to try a dpt non magnum on it as well, they say can handle up to 30-06 capacity which is what the 6.5 prc is. Another saving as I already have one.


well I was going to suggest just going bog standard 30/06.......... and why the heck wouldnt you??? so much easier all around. lots of components,lots of energy, yeah maybe a few more clicks on the dial...but so what.... if you going to twiddle n fiddle it matters not.

----------


## veitnamcam

Also running 129 interlock 43gr 2209 210 primer which is pretty much minimum load as a reduced recoil load for kids.
It works but terminal performance is a bit lackluster which is not surprising as it's only doing 2000fps at 250y!

Actually looking to stoke this one up a bit now.

----------


## PerazziSC3

> well I was going to suggest just going bog standard 30/06.......... and why the heck wouldnt you??? so much easier all around. lots of components,lots of energy, yeah maybe a few more clicks on the dial...but so what.... if you going to twiddle n fiddle it matters not.


Because it's not 1906?  :Grin:

----------


## Micky Duck

yeah yeah...you fellas and your flash Harry new ideas......... the older cartridges have had a new lease of life with new powders and more sleak projectiles....and different twist rate barrels....but some times the old ones just are pretty darn good too.... the 7mm-06 in its true .277 form isnt to be sneazed at and there are plenty of other close cousins.....find it funny as heck the .280AI gets rave reviews yet no one does the AI to the .277 version cause its good enough already LOL.....ducking head now waiting for all the jandles an gumboots to fly!!!

----------


## PerazziSC3

> 153atip Hornady brass 56gr RL26 215 primer COAL .30065" 2985fps from 22"
> 
> It certainly does up close(less than 300y) I haven't had to test it's long range terminal effects yet but the atip appears to penitrate a bit then open up....more like a Berger or Targex than a Amax or Eldm.
> I hope they work at longer ranges....my googling suggests that they do.
> Have shot steel out to a K which is about as far as I can go with single turn turret and stacked a nice group consistent with data.
> I'm pushing them out of a 7 twist so the extra rpm may help expansion or not....


OK interesting, saw a few packs of the 153 for sale today but just grabbed another 147 pack, half the price is the kicker... 

I hope the bergers shoot well, if they do I will need to track down another pack or two.

I only have 2217 as a suitable powder, if I can get 2900 I will be happy... but maybe only 2850. 

Can Get superperformance but reviews are variable in terms of stability 

My barrel will be 1:8 which should be plenty and might avoid the rumors of projectiles blowing up mid flight

----------


## veitnamcam

> OK interesting, saw a few packs of the 153 for sale today but just grabbed another 147 pack, half the price is the kicker... 
> 
> I hope the bergers shoot well, if they do I will need to track down another pack or two.
> 
> I only have 2217 as a suitable powder, if I can get 2900 I will be happy... but maybe only 2850. 
> 
> Can Get superperformance but reviews are variable in terms of stability 
> 
> My barrel will be 1:8 which should be plenty and might avoid the rumors of projectiles blowing up mid flight


Yeah while certainly more twist is going to increase the risk I wonder how much of it is actually due to roughened firecracked throats?

2217 should be good.

----------


## PerazziSC3

> Yeah while certainly more twist is going to increase the risk I wonder how much of it is actually due to roughened firecracked throats?
> 
> 2217 should be good.


If you did it again would you stick with a 22" barrel?

How many rounds have you launched? Would be interesting to scope the barrel

----------


## veitnamcam

> If you did it again would you stick with a 22" barrel?
> 
> How many rounds have you launched? Would be interesting to scope the barrel


I'd either go longer and no suppressor or 20" suppressed and probably a 8 or 7.5 twist...... unless some heavier bullets come out :Thumbsup: 
I'd have to have a count up but at around 350 down the tube and throat still looks good but I don't thrash it on gongs either.

----------


## Kelton

Good to hear they work in close . I’m sure they will go fine out far.  I agree fire cracked/rough bores and throats  not just speed and twist . Example 28nosler good for the first few 100 fast twist fast velocity starts blowing up with 300 down the tube …. 180 eldm

----------


## veitnamcam

> Good to hear they work in close . Im sure they will go fine out far.  I agree fire cracked/rough bores and throats  not just speed and twist . Example 28nosler good for the first few 100 fast twist fast velocity starts blowing up with 300 down the tube . 180 eldm


That's when you change to hammer or cutting edge etc

I think we are reaching the point in heavy for cal 6.5 and 7mm that for the bigger magnums going to a gain twist or monolithic super heavys might be the only real solution.

----------


## GWH

> Also running 129 interlock 43gr 2209 210 primer which is pretty much minimum load as a reduced recoil load for kids.
> It works but terminal performance is a bit lackluster which is not surprising as it's only doing 2000fps at 250y!
> 
> Actually looking to stoke this one up a bit now.


Change the bullet to something that expands easier, should kill much faster at the lower velocity than the interlock. Something designed for grendel velocity would be sweet

----------


## veitnamcam

> Change the bullet to something that expands easier, should kill much faster at the lower velocity than the interlock. Something designed for grendel velocity would be sweet


At the time I worked this up there was pretty much nothing 6.5 avalable.....now I dont really need it. 
But I'll stoke them up and see how they go for giggles and shits.

----------


## outdoorlad

Shot 2 deer this morning with the PRC, 140amax!

----------


## Danny

Its hard to go past the old 140s aye. I have a few left but Ive been using 143 Eldx exclusively as a good c loads for me.

Even at 5 metres they smash through even large animals: @2820 fps. 

@Vietnamcam & co how do those 147s go up close at said Prc velocitys?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## veitnamcam

> It’s hard to go past the old 140’s aye. I have a few left but I’ve been using 143 Eldx exclusively as a good c loads for me.
> 
> Even at 5 metres they smash through even large animals: @2820 fps. 
> 
> @Vietnamcam & co how do those 147’s go up close at said Prc velocity’s?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't used the 147 eldm just the 153Atip, they go fine up close.As above they seem to penitrate a bit then open up more like a Berger or Targex.

----------


## outdoorlad

> Its hard to go past the old 140s aye. I have a few left but Ive been using 143 Eldx exclusively as a good c loads for me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes they do! I have a box and a half left of the Amaxs then Ill have to load something else, if anyone has some they dont want..

----------


## Kelton

> Yes they do! I have a box and a half left of the Amaxs then I’ll have to load something else, if anyone has some they don’t want…..


The 140eldm should behave the same mate

----------


## outdoorlad

> The 140eldm should behave the same mate


I’m sure they will but then I can only say they have been shot not AMAXED  :Grin:

----------


## Dreamer

@PerazziSC3 how's this project coming along?

----------


## PerazziSC3

> @PerazziSC3 how's this project coming along?



It's good, shot 2 deer with it using 156 berger. They are going 2820fps in 22" barrel with 2217. Ballistics mirror my 6.5 creedmoor with a 26" barrel and 147 eldm.... 

Accuracy is ok, not as good as a factory blaser barrel but good enough. Heading up rangitata for a week next week to hunt some tahr.

----------


## Dreamer

> Attachment 210476
> It's good, shot 2 deer with it using 156 berger. They are going 2820fps in 22" barrel with 2217. Ballistics mirror my 6.5 creedmoor with a 26" barrel and 147 eldm.... 
> 
> Accuracy is ok, not as good as a factory blaser barrel but good enough. Heading up rangitata for a week next week to hunt some tahr.


Thats a nice looking setup mate!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

----------


## CBH Australia

The .280a.i. is just a nice looking round. 
Mine goes well with 140gn.

It's accurate and effective

----------

