# Hunting > The Magazine >  What Copper Bullet Fouling, looks like

## Homer

G'Day Fella's,

I tried to put this on F&H forum, without any success (I'm a Computer Luddite)!

I recently Run-In a couple of new barrels and thought some of you may like to know what to look for.
This is a new Winchester 1992 rifle in .45 Colt, after just ONE shot was fired thru it!



I have pushed a clean patch, wet with solvent thru this barrel to clean out the powder fouling and better show the copper fouling.

Doh!
Homer

----------


## R93

> G'Day Fella's,
> 
> I tried to put this on F&H forum, without any success (I'm a Computer Luddite)!
> 
> I recently Run-In a couple of new barrels and thought some of you may like to know what to look for.
> This is a new Winchester 1992 rifle in .45 Colt, after just ONE shot was fired thru it!
> 
> Attachment 1524
> 
> ...


Good example Homer. I dont get it so much if at all since I started to coat my projectiles. When its in the grooves as well it needs attention.

----------


## baldbob

THAT IS NOT COPPER FOULING HOMER LOL.....

Abe have you still got my copper fouling pics from the 06s first bbl? Thats some MOFO copper fouling lol....

----------


## R93

I tried to find them for ya Adam. Must have sent them to me when I was on the darkside. Yup that was true copper fouling!

----------


## tui_man2

> THAT IS NOT COPPER FOULING HOMER LOL.....
> 
> Abe have you still got my copper fouling pics from the 06s first bbl? Thats some MOFO copper fouling lol....


nope misses had a clean out in the email :Pissed Off: 

free to any home :Psmiley:

----------


## R93

> nope misses had a clean out in the email
> 
> free to any home


What? The Misses?

----------


## tui_man2

cleans ever farking thing..................an i aways end up loosing stuff i need

----------


## R93

> cleans ever farking thing..................an i aways end up loosing stuff i need


There all the same where thats concerned. I am constantly asking where my gear I know I have left in a strategic place has gone. After the expected abuse she nearly always manages to find it.

----------


## R93

> Trueflight ultramatch. 200 rounds and four patches. Whats this copper fouling you speak of


BB had a doozy. It seemed to grow copper :Psmiley:

----------


## Homer

G'Day Fella's,

I've had a good laugh with your replies!
Bald Bob, any chance of opening a Copper Mine?

What I was doing with this particular barrel, was running it in.
It took over 50 shots, before it started to stop jacket fouling, like in the above image but its pretty good now!

Again, this is what it looks like after I have run a clean wet with solvent patch thru it, to get rid of the powder fouling.
This image was taken after I had fired 32 Hot loads, thru the rifle!
As you can see, there is still traces of Copper jacket fouling, but no where near as much as when the rifle/barrel was new!

Doh!
Homer

----------


## baldbob

meh I dont know where those pics are lol the will be on one of my many hard drives.... Ill have a look when Im home...

 It wasnt just the rifling coppering but the whole thing and thick copper deposits...

But the Good man grant at trueflite replaced it for me with a very fine barrel and the 2 ive bought from him since are going well with literally no coppper and were about to intitiate the 4th trueflite ive had...

One thing for sure is not only does grant build a fine product, he stands behind it to the end when you have a rare issue...

----------


## Homer

G'Day Big Bad Bob,

Lookin forward to the images of your private Copper Mine!

Quality products and back up service, seem to be a little harder to find these days!
Good to hear Tru-Flite helped you out!!!
I know they make a bloody good product but another local bloke over here is their agent, so I usually use MADDCO barrels.

Doh!
Homer

----------


## veitnamcam

Did you use any abrasive homer to speed along the running in process? or just shoot clean shoot clean and so on

----------


## Terminator

KG12  :Wink:

----------


## Kiwi Greg

I doubt any one has had any thing close to the factory barrel on my Barrett 98B in 338 Lapua magnum, it was still badly copper fouling after 700 rounds, by that stage I was only using it for muzzle brake testing...

Right from the start it was a piece of shit, it had radial machining marks visible in the muzzle & the chamber, that was severly over sized as well.

I broke it in properly, or tried to....after that failed miserably I used Final Finish, Autosol, JBs, Scotch bright, etc etc etc

It would shoot well for a few rounds then......poos.

I would clean it, it would take 7-10 rounds to settle down, then 7-10 would be acceptable, then it was time to clean again.... 

Here it is after cleaning, a couple of weeks after I got it......



Barrett promised me a new barrel a year or so ago......still waiting.....when I get seriously bored I will stir it up again, no good doing it on Barretts own forum because they remove or shuffle things around.....

At great cost I bought a beautiful big Lija barrel & got it fitted to the 98B chambered in 338 Norma & it shoots mint, sub moa as far as I have shot it , with more speed than the Lapua  :Cool: 

The 338 True Flight barrels I have had so far have been fantastic to break in, faster than the other 338 barrels I have used. 

I will have more to break in shortly in chambered in 338 Edge, looking forward to running in a couple more 26" ones  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## el borracho

What a let down with that Barret POS barrel ! I never break a barrel in -ever -and only clean the carbon out after a hundred or so rounds .Unless it affects accuracy badly I dont bother and a premium barrel from True Flight shouldnt need any "breaking in" as it has been lapped already -or should have been

----------


## Kiwi Greg

> What a let down with that Barret POS barrel ! I never break a barrel in -ever -and only clean the carbon out after a hundred or so rounds .Unless it affects accuracy badly I dont bother and a premium barrel from True Flight shouldnt need any "breaking in" as it has been lapped already -or should have been


Yes it was a major PITA cost me heaps to bring it in.......Bloody cool rifle though much nicer than a TRG, IMHO.....owes me about the same now  :XD: 

It isn't the barrel that causes most of the fouling but the chamber cutting & doesn't take many rounds to clear it.... normally  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Homer

G'Day Fella's,

Vietnamcam, the only solvent I used on this barrel, was Hoppes #9 Copper Solvent!
I would shoot a shot (or later on, 2x or 3x or 5x) into my bullet trap, then put the rifle in the cleaning cradle.
I then put a patch wet with the above Hoppes thru the barrel and leave it sit for 10ish minutes, and go and do some reloading etc.
I then pushed a couple more patches, wet with Hoppes thru the barrel to remove any loose fouling and then look into the bore for signs of copper fouling.
I would then push a .45 cal bronze brush, wet with Hoppes thru the barrel for 10 strokes each way and leave it sit for another 10ish minutes.
I would do this until ALL of the copper was removed, then dry the bore and chamber with several clean dry patches, and fire another shot/shots etc etc etc.

It is very convenient to be able to do this, next to your reloading bench. As you can also work up a Maximum Safe Working Load, at the same time!
Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

----------


## Homer

G'Day again, 

Here is an image of the same rifle and part of a Ladder Test of loads I tried.
As you can see, the rifle shoots OK at 50meters. 
It wasn't the best time of day to be shootin but that's another story!
As the load went up in powder charge, the rifle started to shoot left and then lower.
I got up to 26grains of ADI AR-2205 with a 300 grain bullet, at just under 1600fps.
I need to get some LP Magnum primers, and see if I can make it to 1700fps, safely?

Doh!
Homer

----------


## R93

> Yes it was a major PITA cost me heaps to bring it in.......Bloody cool rifle though much nicer than a TRG, IMHO.....owes me about the same now 
> 
> It isn't the barrel that causes most of the fouling but the chamber cutting & doesn't take many rounds to clear it.... normally


What do you mean by that Greg?

----------


## Kiwi Greg

> What do you mean by that Greg?


I have been told that with a "good" barrel, lapped, Ultra match etc, the chamber edge is where the majority of the copper fouling comes from.

The little burr left by cutting plasmaises the copper as the bullet goes past spreading it down the barrel.

There is another theory that a really really smooth barrel is possibly not desirable either.

It is like "running in" a barrel, some people swear by it, some swear at it  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Walker

kero, rag, 3000micron diamond lapping paste and ten minutes work to remove all the sharp edges. It's the hand held version of lead lapping but taking twice as long.

----------


## R93

> I have been told that with a "good" barrel, lapped, Ultra match etc, the chamber edge is where the majority of the copper fouling comes from.
> 
> The little burr left by cutting plasmaises the copper as the bullet goes past spreading it down the barrel.
> 
> There is another theory that a really really smooth barrel is possibly not desirable either.
> 
> It is like "running in" a barrel, some people swear by it, some swear at it


Not sure I get that reason Greg. Where is the burr? You would think it would have to be in the throat area to have any influence. If it is the cause in some cases, I have seen some pretty even coppering right to the muzzle after one shot.

----------


## Kiwi Greg

> Not sure I get that reason Greg. Where is the burr? You would think it would have to be in the throat area to have any influence. If it is the cause in some cases, I have seen some pretty even coppering right to the muzzle after one shot.


Where the reamer cuts the throat or lead etc apparently.

----------


## R93

> Where the reamer cuts the throat or lead etc apparently.


You would think lapping would get rid of it eh? Cheers Greg. Must have a look at a few barrels with a scope to see if its obvious.

----------


## Walker

If your doing that look at hammer forged, button and cut rifled barrels, you'll note different finishes and why some are more prone to fouling then others. Quality of a reamed chamber comes down to the skill and care of the operater, guilty as charged on that one, being in a hurry, not enough cutting fluid, swarf scoring the lands in front of the cutters the list goes on!

----------


## R93

> If your doing that look at hammer forged, button and cut rifled barrels, you'll note different finishes and why some are more prone to fouling then others. Quality of a reamed chamber comes down to the skill and care of the operater, guilty as charged on that one, being in a hurry, not enough cutting fluid, swarf scoring the lands in front of the cutters the list goes on!


Ive scoped a few barrels over the years Walker and the only hammer forged ones I have seen are military ones that are chrome lined. Who makes them for the hunting/shooting scene? Yep swarf is the enemy alright. I would like to see a shoulder without some form of chatter/scoring as well.
I had a decent bore scope I perked but dropped the bugger while still in a barrel and buggered it. Went to price a new one. Farkin dear! Ill just trust the barrel makers I think :Thumbsup:

----------


## Kiwi Greg

> You would think lapping would get rid of it eh? Cheers Greg. Must have a look at a few barrels with a scope to see if its obvious.


The chamber is generally cut after it is lapped, ie fitting & chambering an after market barrel ?

----------


## R93

True, but a good plumber should always give it another tickle up after any machining. Not aggresively but I always did it to remove/smooth out any chatter or small burrs.
I still do it on any new rebarrels done for me if they look like they need it.

----------


## Walker

Ruger, remmington,sako and tikka are all hammer forged including the chamber I think ruger have got a video of the process being done.

----------


## veitnamcam

Just acquired a new 303 SMLE barrel(in grease) and can actually see the the burr(and it grabs a pick) off the right hand side of the lands from chambering. Gave it arseholes with JBs its still there. Will just have to fire clean fire clean fire clean fire clean fire clean fire clean fire clean fire clean fire clean.............................................  .................

----------


## R93

> Ruger, remmington,sako and tikka are all hammer forged including the chamber I think ruger have got a video of the process being done.


Havnt touched or worked on any of those for over 15 yrs. Ya learn something new everyday.

----------

