# Hunting > Hunting >  Bloody Poachers!

## Malhunting

Dont you hate it when you plan a hunt with a few mates, you get the permit for the block which allows you to hunt the block for 3 days and you get there and there are poachers on the block already.
This happened to me a few weeks ago and i decided to let the local cops know about it, the block is an NZDA block at the back of the Waikaia forest and there are detailed maps handed out with a Waikaia Forest permit so this leaves no excuse in my book.
If they had a Waikaia permit they would of known they weren't meant to be where they were and if they were NZDA they would of known it was booked.
So i think since the response from the police was rather non decisive i would put a pic of their # plate and vehicle on here.
Basically the police said "because we never seen them in the block there isn't much they can do but they May speak to the registered owner of the vehicle and they May issue a trespass order", there was never any mistake about them being in our block as there was snow on the ground and they were the only foot prints about and they had parked right on the track which is the boundary to the block and then walked straight into the block never even hunting on the DOC block.
Just a bunch of arsehole muppets, this is why people get shot, cock heads being where they shouldn't.

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## Pointer

If you had a pic of them on the block you can do them with that

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## Bulltahr

Those Southern cops need to talk to the Taupo ones, I hear they have got good results, pulling firearms licences and scroats getting some serious fines...............

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## Savage1

Issue them with a trespass notice covering all blocks concerned in the district.

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## Kscott

TOYOTA HILUX 2.8 D/C 1992 (in Black) | CarJam $13 gets you the registered owner details.

Car odometer went back 25,000 kms back in 2000  :Thumbsup:

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## Spanners

Lol

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## Barefoot

You see, I just would have let down 2 tyres before I left, but you know, that's just me.
Not cuts them mind you, just loosen the valves  :36 1 18:

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## Malhunting

Yeah aye but we left after them so that would of back fired this time.
It was thought about mind you.

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## Munsey

Z nails , they are the antidote to arseholes , put one under ther tire they won't know until  10 ks down the road . Can't blame you . Allways keep a couple in my glove box

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## kokako

> TOYOTA HILUX 2.8 D/C 1992 (in Black) | CarJam $13 gets you the registered owner details.
> 
> Car odometer went back 25,000 kms back in 2000



Are you sure, I thought the change of legislation has stopped owners detail being shown?

What is with the Trademe photo?

Ownership History
New Zealand Ownership History. 
Number of owners. 
Individual or company ownership. 
Owner's location. 
Please note that names and addresses of individuals are not available as of May 2011 privacy law changes.

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## Kiwi Greg

It is fairly special with a petrol V6 in it , Holden I guess  :Wink:

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## JoshC

Haha was wondering how long it would take for you to put it up!

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## Rock river arms hunter

What Scum! arrghh I know the feeling all too well unfortunatley! I would've found some nice rocks and key'd the paint job but thats just me........

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## Malhunting

> Haha was wondering how long it would take for you to put it up!


Yeah i decided Fuck It they deserve it, pricks.

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## Tahr

Outing them is good.

But Z nails, rocks, keyed? WTF? 

Just dragging yourself down to their level.

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## NZHTR

Could be innocent ,What if they where the last permit holders for that block, and went back to find something that was dropped like say a cell phone , ive done exactly that my self , having my vehicle damaged would be a hell of a punishment for that crime . Just a differing angle on bush justice ,ive found vehicles at the odd time parked in the forestry with boot marks leading straight to my own private block ,called forest security handed them the plate number vehicle details taken photo's ,end result they receive a letter in the to appear in Taupo court , no excuse in the world we help poachers in that town they've heard it all , the sign's say it all , WARNING TRESPASSERS WILL BE  PROSECUTED . enter by permit only , Police will actually travel with forest security at times .Now that's real bush justice bring on the poachers lets clean you pricks up !

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## hunter308

> Outing them is good.
> 
> But Z nails, rocks, keyed? WTF? 
> 
> Just dragging yourself down to their level.


Agreed no use running the risk of willful damage charges or violent confrontations if you are caught in the act by the owners.

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## tui_man2

Its nice photo of my hunting truck tho :Thumbsup:

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## Munsey

> Its nice photo of my hunting truck tho


Can I have my z nails back please they cost me $1 ech

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## Kscott

> Are you sure, I thought the change of legislation has stopped owners detail being shown?
> 
> What is with the Trademe photo?


Dunno about the photo, that's what came up on CarJam.

re: ownership details, people need to opt out - details here.




> The law permits the disclosure of personal information held on the motor vehicle register for the purposes of law enforcement, maintenance of the security of New Zealand, collection of charges imposed or authorised by an enactment and the administration and development of transport law and policy. 
> 
> Anyone who wishes to obtain the names and addresses of registered persons who are individuals may apply to the NZTA. The NZTA will consider such requests using the criteria contained in the Official Information Act.  This requires the NZTA to weigh up the public interest in releasing the information sought against the privacy rights of the individual concerned. 
> 
> Alternatively any person may seek a special 'authorisation' from the Ministry of Transport. An authorisation means that when the authorised person requests the name and address of an individual that their request does not need to be considered against the criteria in the Official Information Act.  An authorisation is likely to be sought by persons who access motor vehicle register information in bulk or on a frequent and ongoing basis eg motor vehicle traders, financial service providers. 
> 
> Anyone who wishes to obtain the names and addresses of registered persons who are individuals may apply to the NZTA. The NZTA will consider such requests using the criteria contained in the Official Information Act. This requires the NZTA to weigh up the public interest in releasing the information sought against the privacy rights of the individual concerned.

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## el borracho

I can understand being pissed if someone has cut your lunch on a booked block -really bad behavior but so not uncommon with Hunters .
I have noted a difference in target shooters like my self and general hunters -Target boys seem more conservative to be blunt -abuse me boys but that's what Ive seen in the general attitude of several Hunters I have met in Auckland where I shoot and have shot with -to be blunt I wouldn't trust some of them on my farm if I had one as they'd sneak a quick deer in the back of the truck and think nothing of it which just sucks .It aint easy to get on peoples property's and for people to have loose attitudes toward farmers just is wrong -plenty of good hunters out there of course who tow the line and don't put up with shit from crap people

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## tui_man2

> Can I have my z nails back please they cost me $1 ech


I'll get them in the post asap:thumbup:

sent from my Samsung s3 using tapatalk 2

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## Malhunting

> Could be innocent ,What if they where the last permit holders for that block, and went back to find something that was dropped like say a cell phone , ive done exactly that my self , having my vehicle damaged would be a hell of a punishment for that crime . Just a differing angle on bush justice ,ive found vehicles at the odd time parked in the forestry with boot marks leading straight to my own private block ,called forest security handed them the plate number vehicle details taken photo's ,end result they receive a letter in the to appear in Taupo court , no excuse in the world we help poachers in that town they've heard it all , the sign's say it all , WARNING TRESPASSERS WILL BE  PROSECUTED . enter by permit only , Police will actually travel with forest security at times .Now that's real bush justice bring on the poachers lets clean you pricks up !


Nah it's not innocent, i checked with our block controller and i was the only one to hunt that block for over a month which is why i chose it.
Just arsehole poachers.

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## Mike H

Trampers? Someone checking their trail cam?

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## baldbob

Wee stones under the valve caps

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## Savage1

> Wee stones under the valve caps


That is wilful damage, just get the lawful occupier/owner to issue them with a trespass notice for all of the land they own. Then next time they get caught they can be charged.

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## baldbob

> That is wilful damage, just get the lawful occupier/owner to issue them with a trespass notice for all of the land they own. Then next time they get caught they can be charged.


Hows that? it doesnt damage nothing..... Cant see a wilfil placement law lol

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## Malhunting

> Trampers? Someone checking their trail cam?


Yeh could of been Santa Claus to but no just poachers.

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## Savage1

> Hows that? it doesnt damage nothing..... Cant see a wilfil placement law lol


A permanent or temporary reduction in the value or usefulness of any property.

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## Mike H

Savage1, its only that if you get caught. I've not seen a poacher go to the cops yet.

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## Kscott

Poachers poach because they don't give a shit about the rules, are selfish and simply want to do whatever they like.  If you want to lower yourself to their level, go for it.

Because once you've convinced yourself it's ok to break the rules, chances are you'll convince yourself again another day it'll be ok. And then you'll be no better than the dickless poachers tbh.

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## el borracho

> Savage1, its only that if you get caught. I've not seen a poacher go to the cops yet.


Friends of mine flew a copter into an area in Taupo a few years ago -Maori land it was to. They proceeded to poach before having their helicopter shot through the tail boom by two unlicensed Maori guys from close by who had walked in on a bush road .Pointing guns and threatening they took the keys to the chopper and pissed off .
Outcome -court case in Rotorua -all the boys fined 800 dollars to donate to a charity -Maori guys zip nada ??
My mates deserved what they got and if anything got off very lightly and probably desrved a heavier sentence

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## R93

I take it, the machine was holed on the ground? If it was done while in flight and they landed I am surprised there was a court case at all.

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## Savage1

> Friends of mine flew a copter into an area in Taupo a few years ago -Maori land it was to. They proceeded to poach before having their helicopter shot through the tail boom by two unlicensed Maori guys from close by who had walked in on a bush road .Pointing guns and threatening they took the keys to the chopper and pissed off .
> Outcome -court case in Rotorua -all the boys fined 800 dollars to donate to a charity -Maori guys zip nada ??
> My mates deserved what they got and if anything got off very lightly and probably desrved a heavier sentence


Bit of bush justice, but I find it hard to believe the Maori would have gotten off, they would have had the more serious charges!

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## el borracho

not a sausage ,unbelievable eh. Yes the chopper was on the ground in or near whites landing I think it s called in the Taupo area .While one of the guys was off hunting and the others around the machine or near a shot went off and the pilot Lyndsay  yelled get down someone is shooting at us -the  tail boom was hit .When the two guys showed themselves they threaten to burn the chopper and my cowardly friends gave the keys up .A walk out and trip to the cops and a few hours later they had the keys .
Now I say my cowardly friends because they would all be saying if this happened to someone else the  macho bullshit about not surrendering anything would flow like the runs and when it came to the crunch shat themselves and gave the Keys up.This happened around 12-13 years ago

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## NZHTR

I dont read Maori ,i just read pissed off land owners ,caught poachers hunting on there land shoot's a hole in there heli and tells them hands up boy's!  :Cool:  taking there key's leaving the arse holes to walk out . :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin:  :Grin: :

The Heli wouldn't happin to have been a blue and sliver 500 ???

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## el borracho

I don't know he colour but probably came out of Ardmore in Auckland , 5 guys in it

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## HFWaikato

I no of one of the guys invovled in this incident. Not so sure about the being unlicensed bit. However i do no the land that the helicopter was poaching on is quite obvious its private land. Just because its bush or forest  people assume its free pickings. Think of it this way. I shoot your cat or dog on your property (both can be found as wild animals) and you catch me doing it. What are you going to do? Not much different to whats gone down here IMO.

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## el borracho

I agree!

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## Savage1

Bugger that, No excuse for using a firearm like that. What if the chopper occupants stood their ground? I would have had the firearms licences revoked from all of them. That is pretty serious pointing a gun at someone and threatening, not to mention firing it at the helicopter with people in it! These are the kind of cowboys that give the rest of us a bad name. The occupants would have had a defence if they turned and shot the guys!

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## el borracho

the guys were around the copter not in it .One of the 2 guys who shot also hit one of the boys in the chest with his rifle .
Hey at the end of the day my friends should not have been there period! The pilot is lucky not to have his license suspended -dont know if they do that .I cant understand why the other guys didn't get done though ??

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## NZHTR

Givin that there's two sides to a story, may be the two land owners events differed form the pouches , and thats what the judge ruled on , some version's can get changed as time goes on to suite one side or the other.

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## el borracho

To true !

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## ARdave

poach his wife hahah. rookie poachers parking near the scene of the 'alleged' crime....

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## JoshC

Poaching is rife in this area. Trucks parked in suspicious places all the time. It is time someone cracks down on them. The local cop is a keen hunter and totally against poaching. His effort to stop it will be noticed around the community in due course, just hope noone gets hurt, or worse, shot in the meantime.

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## distant stalker

I hate poaching and have no time for those who think its ok. Glad to hear you have a proactive cop down there Josh C

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## Rushy

> Glad to hear you have a proactive cop down there Josh C


Big ups to the local police for taking a proactive stance on this.

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## Munsey

> I hate poaching and have no time for those who think its ok. Glad to hear you have a proactive cop down there Josh C


Horihunter what about bending the rules with your dogs on a "non dog block" .  ?

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## el borracho

Bending the rules in a hunt situation pertaining to dogs is usually to safe guard wild life .Pig dogs no way -pointing dogs in control bend  them a little at you own risk.If there are other reasons the Doc Nazi's have let us know

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## Munsey

> Bending the rules in a hunt situation pertaining to dogs is usually to safe guard wild life .Pig dogs no way -pointing dogs in control bend  them a little at you own risk.If there are other reasons the Doc Nazi's have let us know


I agree el borracho,  I have been known to bend those rules , but do admit fell ,better with my dog out of the bush and on the tops . Would be the demise of a deer dog to grab a kiwi . I am very strict when are in the bush , he's at heel .

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## leathel

> not a sausage ,unbelievable eh. Yes the chopper was on the ground in or near whites landing I think it s called in the Taupo area .While one of the guys was off hunting and the others around the machine or near a shot went off and the pilot Lyndsay  yelled get down someone is shooting at us -the  tail boom was hit .When the two guys showed themselves they threaten to burn the chopper and my cowardly friends gave the keys up .A walk out and trip to the cops and a few hours later they had the keys .
> Now I say my cowardly friends because they would all be saying if this happened to someone else the  macho bullshit about not surrendering anything would flow like the runs and when it came to the crunch shat themselves and gave the Keys up.This happened around 12-13 years ago


If its whites Clearing they have been battling poachers for years.... One of the boys ended up in Jail for taking pot shots at choppers in the air if my memory serves me correct, The dudes I met walking through seamed like a good crew, Offered to horse back the gear in if we went through again....But that was years ago and before he was jailed.

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## Scribe

We got sprung once by a couple of DOC guys lifting a livey out of Whites clearing a good few years back....It turned out the two DOC men were up on the clearing checking their own deer trap...They as it turned out they were engaged in a trapping venture with the locals around the area.

Well my shooter then was John Tahurei a local Tuhoe boy. . And we were working out of Maungapohatu and his father ran this property. 

Well John leapt from the chopper to defend our honor and tell the DOC that they were actually trespassing on his land...it seemed from listening in on it all that his great grandmother had been TIPPED UP on this spot by the local Kamatua about 100 years ago when she was out innocently collecting kiwi feathers for her cloak.

Then the rest of the hangers on around the area turned up to lay out there individual claims for the deer we had.

Meanwhile it was by then it was getting as dark as hell, with no side looking like winning the argument I decided to drop the offending deer off at the dark pen up the gully on the edge of the clearing. It was as black as a cow up this gully and I got a bad case of disorientation and loss of control and had to button off the deer which plowed into the ground and was as dead as a bloody mackere after that l.

Most everyone was ready to turn on me then, they thought I had killed the deer then just out of spite. I grabbed my shooter making sure the ar15 was real close and we got out of there and flew back over the tops to Maungapohatu.

Then end of a perfectly horrible day....Actually one of the few days that I seriously doubted whether it was all worth it.

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## NZHTR

Brings back memories ,we used to ride the horses in throu whites drop into the Waiau river past the huts Totara , Central ,i no ive missed one hut- cant remember its name lol on  past the blue slip to Te waiotukapiti hut ,there  was a wood framed culler's hut covered in clear plastic we'd often use a few ks further up ,on the left bank tucked in the trees on a low terrace .Then pack the deer back out on horse back to the road ,great trips in an out of there.

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## el borracho

same place for sure .These guys that shot the boom  went free as far as the offender story went to me and I saw him a few days after they went to court

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## Scribe

It has always appeared damned strange to me that we do apply the label Poacher to someone hunting pigs, deer, chamois, or thar.

Deer and pigs and such like are vermin according to the powers that be in this country and we allowed them to be treated as such.

I would much rather see a block crawling with hunters without permits than see it recieve the status of having a high deer population and being treated by Helicopter search and destroy missions and a regular poisoning regime as sika blocks in the Kaweka and Kaimanawa blocks recieve now.

DOC'S mission statements are quite clear about this fact "There is no place in our forests for Introduced Vermin"

Get rid of the vermin, no more problems from poachers.

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## leathel

> It has always appeared damned strange to me that we do apply the label Poacher to someone hunting pigs or deer.
> 
> Deer and pigs are vermin according to the powers that be in this country and we have allowed them to be treated as such.
> 
> I would much rather see a block crawling with hunters without permits than see it recieve the status of having a high deer population and being treated by Helicopter search and destroy missions and a regular poisoning regime as sika blocks in the Kaweka and Kaimanawa blocks recieve now.
> 
> DOC'S mission statements are quite clear about this fact "There is no place in our forests for Introduced Vermin"
> 
> Get rid of the vermin, no more problems from poachers.


I take it you are talking on Public land without a permit?    Private land is another thing again and poachers you are for sure!

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## Scribe

I have been and am still a farmer myself but I have got to admit that the old cockatoo is a pretty versatile thinker when it comes to game animals...

Way back....When we were culling the cocky would discover a mob of deer on their crop and the telephone would run hot "You bastards are responsible for these deer..."You guys let them go in NZ  and you are supposed to be keeping them under control...You should be sacked for not keeping them under control  They are eating all my tucker I cant afford to feed all your bloody deer.

A few years later during the deer boom..." Dont you bastards shoot any of my deer they are eating my tucker so they belong to me..You poaching bastards have no respect for another mans property"

The present...For Christ sake start shooting the bloody hinds again and reduce the numbers, there 30 bloody hinds on the crop the other night when I went up to move the sheep. You hunt on the property I expect you to keep the deer numbers down. I can afford to feed all those bloody deer. 

I take great delight in teasing my farmer friends about how fast they are on their feet when it comes to looking after there own interests and how I am glad I have been in the game long enough to see such radical changes in position and smart about turns from them.

Wasnt it Barry Crump that described them so well as "those moaners from down on the mudflats".

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## Dougie

Scribe, your point of view doen't suprise me at all after reading the last few chapters of your book...great stuff mate, absolutely great stuff. Well done to Willie for his job on the west coast..  :Grin:

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## JoshC

Scribe, we call some of them down here, "wind swept gully folk"...

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## Scribe

> Scribe, your point of view doen't suprise me at all after reading the last few chapters of your book...great stuff mate, absolutely great stuff. Well done to Willie for his job on the west coast..


Dougie you are a disappointment, it took me 10 months to write, a year to rewrite and edit it and you have devoured it in hours really.

Couldnt you make it last a week. Anyway I am glad you enjoyed it.

The reason I wrote that book is that every sorry assed bastard that ever went to Vietnam seemed to have sat down afterwards and wrote a book. These books are all 'Poor me, look at what that nasty old war did to me' books.

Sorry I just realized I have hijacked someones thread

Sorry just realized I have hijacked someone else's thread.

Oh and Dougie parcel arrived safely in the mail a few minutes ago.

When I read those sorry exhibits of the writers art I began to wonder if we had all attended the same war. So I said to myself I will write about the war as I saw it from "a hunters point of view". Hell we were all volenteers there is absolutely no point in going around moaning and gnashing your teeth about getting a rough deal.

Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone.

Sorry I have just realized I have hijacked this thread.

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## Scribe

WTF.... how did that happen

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## Dundee

Copy and paste too Dust off    Scribe

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## R93

> I have been and am still a farmer myself but I have got to admit that the old cockatoo is a pretty versatile thinker when it comes to game animals...
> 
> Way back....When we were culling the cocky would discover a mob of deer on their crop and the telephone would run hot "You bastards are responsible for these deer..."You guys let them go in NZ  and you are supposed to be keeping them under control...You should be sacked for not keeping them under control  They are eating all my tucker I cant afford to feed all your bloody deer.
> 
> A few years later during the deer boom..." Dont you bastards shoot any of my deer they are eating my tucker so they belong to me..You poaching bastards have no respect for another mans property"
> 
> The present...For Christ sake start shooting the bloody hinds again and reduce the numbers, there 30 bloody hinds on the crop the other night when I went up to move the sheep. You hunt on the property I expect you to keep the deer numbers down. I can afford to feed all those bloody deer. 
> 
> I take great delight in teasing my farmer friends about how fast they are on their feet when it comes to looking after there own interests and how I am glad I have been in the game long enough to see such radical changes in position and smart about turns from them.
> ...


Some deer farmers are no different. They soon forgot how they were able to have a business in NZ. It was a helicopter pilots vision in the first place. How many pilots and shooters lost their lives, stocking farms with live capture.
As soon as venison started up again in 2004 deer farmers were the largest hurdle. They tried to have it stopped so they could get more for the farmed meat passed off as feral overseas.

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## Scribe

Perhaps we could bring in some new rules here.

We could have the Douglas Score  X 2 for an animal taken out of a greedy farmers paddock who wants to sell the animal behind the fence to some bigshot.

Then we could have the Douglas Score X 1 1/2 for an animal taken out of the DOC estate that is at risk of being poisoned.

That should liven up the game a bit.

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## veitnamcam

> Perhaps we could bring in some new rules here.
> 
> We could have the Douglas Score  X 2 for an animal taken out of a greedy farmers paddock who wants to sell the animal behind the fence to some bigshot.
> 
> Then we could have the Douglas Score X 1 1/2 for an animal taken out of the DOC estate that is at risk of being poisoned.
> 
> That should liven up the game a bit.


Should that not be the other way around Scribe? I have been on property's where free range(but on good tucker/fed ect) stags around 300 douglas are culled as they should be and usually are around 350 360 douglas.

I would put way more value on a 260- 300 Douglas public land stag that has avoided the 1080 and WARO and has had some sort of effort put in. As opposed to ride the 4 wheeler walk 500m shoot a bloody big stag have the guide skin and carry it and hand over your 10k

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## Scribe

> Should that not be the other way around Scribe? I have been on property's where free range(but on good tucker/fed ect) stags around 300 douglas are culled as they should be and usually are around 350 360 douglas.
> 
> I would put way more value on a 260- 300 Douglas public land stag that has avoided the 1080 and WARO and has had some sort of effort put in. As opposed to ride the 4 wheeler walk 500m shoot a bloody big stag have the guide skin and carry it and hand over your 10k


Yeah you are right man. Just thinking of a way to liven things up a bit...The real test would be getting out again without getting caught and not paying 10 k.

I guess I miss the excitement of the good old days where one could be accused of poaching a couple times a week by some half mad stubble hopper. I just about had the Chopper confiscated on the spot once by a DOC worker once over in Whangamomana for catching stinking old goats. Perish the thought losing your machine chasing stinking old goats. Though I have to admit to making a lot of money out of these goats at the time. We were getting 200 dollars a head for anything with a fanny. When an old bugger of a farmer thought if he could see us working in the distance then we must have been on his land and rang DOC. Wiser heads prevailed in this case in the end though but it was a near run thing.

Then a few days later I got a ring from the local Police...What did I know about the theft of a black cattle beast about three years old from a certain property. This woman had identified her animal under our helicopter as I was flying over her property. Actually it was a rather large wild boar out of the Heao.

When I explained to the Cop That it was a Hughes 300c I was flying and it would have been lucky to have lifted 250 kilos on that day he was quite satisfied then it wasnt a really a clear cut case after all.

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## R93

> When I explained to the Cop That it was a Hughes 300c I was flying and it would have been lucky to have lifted 250 kilos on that day he was quite satisfied then it wasnt a really a clear cut case after all.


 :Thumbsup:  I know an old timer that flew a load double that in an old B model from the Pyke valley back to Queenstown. I have no reason to doubt him as I have worked with/for him for yrs. I sometimes would be forced to cringe when I got the one more or hook the rest on signal when I was shooting for him.

I'll never forget when I shot an animal in a shitty gut way up high in the Turnbull when we were on the way back home from a good run. I thought we were going to B line it home and forgot to wrap a couple strops around myself after we dropped the last load at the truck. 
Without thinking I stepped off the skid onto a boulder and made my way cautiously down to the animal. I stuck it and reached for a strop....bugger, no good to me lying on the floor of the machine, eh. 
Having to run back up the gut to get one out of the machine would surely anger my employer due to the time and wasted fuel. He is lets say, well known for doing his nut for lesser indiscretions. 
I held with my back to the annoying down draft that all impatient pilots seem too bestow on their shooters by hovering mere inches above your head thinking it will hurry you up. Hunched over the carcass I was contemplating my next move. Most of all, I was dreading the abuse that was sure to come when I had to reveal my mistake. 
I was just plucking up the courage when I seen a huge white flash and felt like I was sucker punched by Mike Tyson in the back of the scone. 
Old grizzle guts knew I had no strop and took great pleasure in beaming me from 30-40 feet in the head while hovering with a tied up strop. What made it worse, was we bought a heap of new candium coated steel carabiners that replaced our alloy ones. I reckon I just about wore a strop everywhere I went after that. I never forgot one again.

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## sneeze

You chopper boys are having to easy a ride in this thread :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:  So... Farmers changing their minds about deer because of their value? maybe. Generations from my area took care of there own place though and where ok with the bounty and selling the tusks .Yes the approach changed with the value of venison and so did the approach of the choppers,just makes good commercial sense. For those that did as you say well when you own the land and need to get a living from it you use what you have. But don't lump all farmers in together,as I'm sure you wouldn't like all chopper operates to be labeled the same. Which ever way you want to look at it a boundary is a boundary and poaching is poaching. You might look back on it with a wry smile  but having been on the other side of it for many years from land and air I don't see much to smile about when the subject is bought up. The local cop here is taking it seriously these days.

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## R93

Chopper boys have been lumped together with bad reps from ignorant hunters for as long as I can remember. I am not condoning poaching in any form. Sorry if it come across that way.

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## sneeze

No worries mate, wasnt aiming at anyone just putting a point of view. Had a plenty of trouble over the years, on one occasion had bullets bouncing off the road 30yds infront of the car with the whole familly in it.

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## Scribe

Whilst on the other foot I have had to appear twice before the courts in Taupo to do with poaching charges. Both cases never made the grade. In one case DOC withdrew the charges because of hostile witnesses but not until we appeared before the judge and in the other case a fellow Pilot admitted to the judge that he had laid a false charges.

In both cases I was grounded because DOC took my Wild Animal Recovery Licence from me.

DOC knew that none of the cases were ever going to make the grade.... No compensation, no sorry, no nothing. 

Its a great way to do the opposition over as some outfits quickly found out.

What about the guy we had down at the pub that was boasting about pissing in our jerry cans that we had left behind on the hill to fuel up on the way home. Reckoned we were probably poachers, then a few weeks later this snivelling creature wanted us to back load him into the hills when we flew out some hunters, all  for nothing.

They were incredible these 'me toos' cockys worse than the rest I used to be so ashamed of them. If they wanted a job done or a bit of search and rescue or they thought there was a spare seat in the machine it was always 'me too' "me too'

They were worse still when there was any money involved. We used to catch a lot of deer on a 50/50 basis then on farms. Always on a one for you one for me basis. But when you went round to get the animals later you would find that the farmer had substituted a couple of spikers worth $200 for your couple of beautiful hinds worth $2500.

And they would lie to you right in your face. They used to get a rude reception from us as we had risked our lives to catch those animals while the cockatoo sat on his ass in the shade. A shooter never forgot what animals he had caught and tied up

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## sneeze

We had Less Mars (sp)  here mostly till he craked himself on the head. He always came back and he recieved the respect he gave. Worked very well and I never heard a bad word about him or from him regarding the local area. Have had  deer  taken and padocks buzzed by another operator trying to push them through or over the fence and a couple of face offs with the old man  with plenty of threats as to what would be happening when noone was around. Good and bad on both sides like all walks of life.

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## Scribe

Of all the operators I have never known not one would have ever been silly enough to try and steal a deer out from behind a deer fence or similarly try to push deer over a deer fence. Why would you.... you would only be able to grab one before they split in every direction. And look at the risks involved in plucking a deer out of a deer farm, robbing a bank would carry less risk

Its was always far more sensible to put an hour in up in the hills and catch one that didnt belong to anyone

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## sneeze

In this case Scribe it was spite, he'd been refused permission to the property but had been tumbled taking deer off the hill anyway, was after a little confrontation.

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## Scribe

> In this case Scribe it was spite, he'd been refused permission to the property but had been tumbled taking deer off the hill anyway, was after a little confrontation.


Less sense than robbing the corner dairy when you had 2 mill in the bank.

I reserve the right to defend anyone against paranoia and false accusations of poaching . Have a read through this thread and you will see that there is absolutley no proof that any poaching at all has occurred and yet people want the owner of this vehicle Trespassed. Worse still others want his vehicle damaged or destroyed.

This is the same mindless paranoia that caused stupid young men to piss in our jerrycans full of fuel.

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## sneeze

:Grin:  I never said it was smart, its just what he did. 
There is also no proof of cockatoo  farmers switching deer. 
Defend all you like I'm simply doing the same from the other side based on my own experiences and those of my family. And I'm sure some will read my posts and think I've made it up that  it sounds a little to "wild west"  but I cant help that I can only put it down as I remember it happening.
 I have no broad based dislike of choppers and those that operate them and I believe that the few ruin the reputation for the many, maybe the same for farmers?

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## R93

Doesnt sound too wild west too me Sneeze. I have seen or heard of plenty of similar scenarios. Nicking deer out of remote traps/pens was a common one. Deer being run into fences by choppers on farms so they break their necks. Fences cut on back boundries and so on.
Some spiteful things still do happen from time to time. Some really funny things as well.

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## Scribe

> Doesnt sound too wild west too me Sneeze. I have seen or heard of plenty of similar scenarios. Nicking deer out of remote traps/pens was a common one. Deer being run into fences by choppers on farms so they break their necks. Fences cut on back boundries and so on.
> Some spiteful things still do happen from time to time. Some really funny things as well.


Yes we all heard about these terrible things but when investigated 99% proved to be just that, rumours and ...Paranoia.

I mean to say how visible is a helicopter hovering over a farm chasing deer around so they break their necks. Expensive fun as well. Surely going up and cutting the fences after dark would be a more sensible option if it was being done for spite.

The proof of how often this sort of thing happened, is in researching how many operators were ever actually ever prosecuted for such crimes.
I dont remember one. You see the standard of proof is quite high really, rightfully so, or I would have been prosecuted on just such rumours myself. 

Or is the proof of a crime as easily decided in peoples minds, with as little proof, as we have seen here on this thread.

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## R93

Ok? Then they were just bloody good rumours/stories made by the people that had claimed too have done these things then.

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## sneeze

> The proof of how often this sort of thing happened, is in researching how many operators were ever actually ever prosecuted for such crimes.
> I don't remember one. You see the standard of proof is quite high really, rightfully so, or I would have been prosecuted on just such rumors myself. 
> 
> Or is the proof of a crime as easily decided in peoples minds, with as little proof, as we have seen here on this thread.


So in your way of thinking if it wasn't reported and prosecuted it didn't really happen?

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## Scribe

> So in your way of thinking if it wasn't reported and prosecuted it didn't really happen?


I could tell you dozens of stories of what went on during those rough old days of venison recoverey and live capture but I wasnt sitting in the pilots or shooters seat when they happened.  I could tell you some stories of when I was.  Then we have the fact thats there is always two sides to any story the helicopter crew and the farmer. So they remain just that stories, rumours and paranoia, These require no proof but they have over the years cost people like me money.

 Prosecutions actually do require proof.

The alternative for some people is if they think someone is poaching they smash his gear. When he gets out he smashes everybody elses gear....so soon no one has got any gear and we are all to scared to go hunting

An eye for an eye and soon everyone is blind.

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## sneeze

I'm not condoning smashing anyones gear here, back then the police weren't interested in poaching and they where more than a couple of hours away so basically no use at all. Any incidences had to handled face to face and as you've pointed out accelerating an issue wasn't in anyones interest though when it continues for years its sometimes not so easy to avoid.
Question though, where lies the difference between my telling of the chopper buzzing our deer  paddock and yours of metoo cockatoos who's opinions swing with the wind and swap spiker's for hinds? 
The proof is in the prosecution theory reminds me  of  "if a mans talking and there isn't a woman around is he still wrong" :Grin:   I cant help but wonder  though how many of those rumors and stories would be prosocutions if we had back then the video camera  in every hand that we have today. The inability to provide proof  was the reason many incedents went unreported. At a  guess Id have to say the number would be relevant.

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## Scribe

As I said earlier the inability to find proof never stopped them from taking me to court. The powers didnt work that way then, if a complaint was recieved they took a mans Wild Animal Recovery Licence away from him on the spot.

Tales of poaching helicopters were just that myths and Folk Law, in the vast majority of cases Brought on by paranoia,...No more believable or relevant than the tale of Maui pulling up the North Island with his bloody fishing line.

 I dont know one single helicopter Pilot that I have ever met that would chase a farmers hinds into the fence to break their necks. Why would they do something a highly visible as this with no gain?????.

Pilots and shooters might do some things for a bit of a lark but they were not stupid.

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## sneeze

Well I dont know one single farmer thats dishonest enough to swap deer but Im not blind enough to think that it didnt or wouldnt happen because I dont know them all. :Grin:   The Events I talk about are real, they happened, If you would like I can Pm you some background and more detail as to how it came about. You could well be right about the majority of past claims but not all. As its in  past there is no way of proving it either way so there is probably little point in trying to change each others mind. I will continue to believe that chopper operators are much the same as the rest of the population, mostly good people( maybe some with the vince martin glint in their smile) but with the odd bad egg.Much like my opinion of farmers. :Have A Nice Day:

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## Scribe

I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers. 

Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.

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## craigc

> Less sense than robbing the corner dairy when you had 2 mill in the bank.
> 
> I reserve the right to defend anyone against paranoia and false accusations of poaching . Have a read through this thread and you will see that there is absolutley no proof that any poaching at all has occurred and yet people want the owner of this vehicle Trespassed. Worse still others want his vehicle damaged or destroyed.
> 
> This is the same mindless paranoia that caused stupid young men to piss in our jerrycans full of fuel.


100% agree with you Scribe. The only difference is the oxygen waster you mentioned actually did it, most of the sh*t talk on here is done from the safety of a computer... Chest puffing.

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## leathel

> I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers. 
> 
> Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.




FFS so it it aint put to cort it didn't happen.....so just how many time did you poach that it didn't happen because it didn't find its way to court or couldn't be proved in court.


 So its OK to shoot on someones property because you can get awy with it

 People fork out plenty of money to buy dirt and they have the say on what happens on that dirt ..... Buying a chopper does not give you the right to poach because you can get away with it....I am not surprised damage gets done to choppers at times when some push the limits way beyond the norm and they get off on lack of evedence....the deer may run back to the bush but you have NO right to take it off a farm unless permition is sort and given.....Or you are a farken filthy poacher weather its taken to court or not!!!!

 Yes I have farming background and we let people on our place but not to hunt....nothing to shoot there but if we did boarder the bush for saftey sake we need to know who is doing what on our land!

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## Malhunting

Make no mistake the owner of that truck was poaching on my block, he had no right to be there and should be trespassed, i hope the police followed through with what they said.
The block is Lease hold and is part of the Gore NZDA blocks leased by Glenaray Station, now if they were members of the club they would of only had to book the block to hunt it and if they had a permit for Waikaia Forest they would of received a map showing them the boundarys of this block as a no go. Thats if they had a permit for Waikaia, i doubt they did.
We know they were in the block simply because with fresh snow on the ground we just followed their foot prints from their truck straight into our block.
As much as this sort of thing pisses me off an can end up in accidental shootings i wouldn't damage their vehicle but it would be tempting.
Another thing worth considering is if they did shoot one of us whilst they were poaching is it still accidental or should charges be bumped up?

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## Scribe

> FFS so it it aint put to cort it didn't happen.....so just how many time did you poach that it didn't happen because it didn't find its way to court or couldn't be proved in court.
> 
> 
>  So its OK to shoot on someones property because you can get awy with it
> 
>  People fork out plenty of money to buy dirt and they have the say on what happens on that dirt ..... Buying a chopper does not give you the right to poach because you can get away with it....I am not surprised damage gets done to choppers at times when some push the limits way beyond the norm and they get off on lack of evedence....the deer may run back to the bush but you have NO right to take it off a farm unless permition is sort and given.....Or you are a farken filthy poacher weather its taken to court or not!!!!
> 
>  Yes I have farming background and we let people on our place but not to hunt....nothing to shoot there but if we did boarder the bush for saftey sake we need to know who is doing what on our land!


If you have got the proof take it to court. Who made you judge and jury...are you the sort that would piss in my jerrycans of fuel because you supect I might be a poacher. Or pick up a stone and damage the paintwork on someones vehicle for the same reason.

Perhaps hes not poaching perhaps you just want to trespass him to keep him out of your favourite hunting area or try and scare him off by damaging his property.

Ever been lost up on the tops and cut down the wrong creek through DOC land and ended up on someones farm...With a rifle in your hands that two cases of poaching and if this hasnt happened to you yet you havnt done very much hunting. 

The same thing happens in low cloud with helicopters...you may be forced to fly across properties at low level under the cloud to get out of the area...Farmer paranoia and you lose your.... Pilots Licence for Low flying. Your Wild Animal Recovery Licence for poaching.
and the courts may prosecute and sentence you to whatever they see fit for breaking the law. And pilots you say would take this sort of risk to chase someones deer into the fence just out of spite. 

If you have proof of poaching and you arent just living on rumours take it to the courts.... and next time you go for a ride in a chopper just have a think about whats going to happen when the flame goes out cos someone pissed in the fuel. 

Oh and by the way I do have land and I do let people on to hunt on it.

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## NZHTR

[QUOTE=Scribe;29412]I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers. 

Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.[/QUOTE 

One sunday back in 1988 ,at the southern end off Rangitoto range ,i was sitting in a friends dinning room table drinking a coffee early in the morning ,my mate is a hunter a farmer and owned the farm i was at, we had just saddled up for a hunt up in the range so a last brew then hit the hill ,just the night before we had chatted about the trouble he was having from poachers both land and air on the farm , my mate enjoyed seeing deer close to the house an had never shot any, we could hear the buzz of the copper in the distance getting louder ,then a machine a peered over his side boundary and about 900 meters from his house and a cross the large gully on the farm ,they shot two hind's hooked them and left ,the markings on the machine where covered up ,now this is were ive gone wrong it seems ive always coincided those ass holes as Poaches ,but now it seems that because who ever they were and never having a day in court they my not be  :Wtfsmilie: , what ever they mite not be due to a lack of conviction ,they still are couple of low life thieving c*nts and i reckon i don't need a court of law to convince me other wise .Can't help thinking there just may be a shooter or pilot on this forum that can recall the events down around that area way back then ?,Nar can't be im just being paranoid .Food for thought thou the jury is out on this one at the moment.

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## Scribe

[QUOTE=NZHTR;29454]


> I agree with much of what you say, But I must say that am forced to take the side of those grossly misaligned persons called poachers. 
> 
> Until a court of law proves beyond reasonable doubt that they are poachers as they stand accused of being.[/QUOTE 
> 
> One sunday back in 1988 ,at the southern end off Rangitoto range ,i was sitting in a friends dinning room table drinking a coffee early in the morning ,my mate is a hunter a farmer and owned the farm i was at, we had just saddled up for a hunt up in the range so a last brew then hit the hill ,just the night before we had chatted about the trouble he was having from poachers both land and air on the farm , my mate enjoyed seeing deer close to the house an had never shot any, we could hear the buzz of the copper in the distance getting louder ,then a machine a peered over his side boundary and about 900 meters from his house and a cross the large gully on the farm ,they shot two hind's hooked them and left ,the markings on the machine where covered up ,now this is were ive gone wrong it seems ive always coincided those ass holes as Poaches ,but now it seems that because who ever they were and never having a day in court they my not be , what ever they mite not be due to a lack of conviction ,they still are couple of low life thieving c*nts and i reckon i don't need a court of law to convince me other wise .Can't help thinking there just may be a shooter or pilot on this forum that can recall the events down around that area way back then ?,Nar can't be im just being paranoid .Food for thought thou the jury is out on this one at the moment.


There were three helicopters operating around Rangitoto at about that time. Hang on, all of them were operated and belonged to farmers.  

So find the nearest airport...locate a helicopter operator and go and piss in his jerrycans it seem to make some people feel better.

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## NZHTR

Ow sensitive , :Nose Bleed:  you win this is going no were im out . shout ya a beer after the Auck shoot thou but dont put it down unattended some one mite piss in it  :Psmiley:

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## Scribe

> Ow sensitive , you win this is going no were im out . shout ya a beer after the Auck shoot thou but dont put it down unattended some one mite piss in it


I can look after me beer, But I would be to scared to leave my vehicle unattended with some of these people around.

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## veitnamcam

Its a touchy one this.
When I was younger and a lot sillier I used to poach the hell out of a local forestry block.
This not a block owned by some local farmer its owned buy a global company. It actually has public access easement rights on it but the local bigwigs have deemed it a "bosses block" and its locked up tight because its full of deer.

Anyway its a past life now. Haven't been up there for years. Value my FAL too much.

I have never and never will poach somebody's own personal property.
If and when I have my own block blatant poachers would probably go missing :ORLY: 

Yes Scribe I have had things not go exactly to plan on a perfectly legal public land hunt and ended up on private property,In that situation if the land owner had seen us Im sure he would have offered us a ride and any dry clothes he had. One look at us would have eliminated any thoughts that these two wet hypothermic individuals were poaching his land.

I cant profess to know anything like as much as Scribe and R93 about the helicopter industry. If I had a largish block with deer on it a heli flying low over it in inclement weather would be duely noted.
If it was flying over(low hunting) every couple of days there would be some kind of explanation required or shit would turn nasty.

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## Scribe

> Its a touchy one this.
> When I was younger and a lot sillier I used to poach the hell out of a local forestry block.
> This not a block owned by some local farmer its owned buy a global company. It actually has public access easement rights on it but the local bigwigs have deemed it a "bosses block" and its locked up tight because its full of deer.
> 
> Anyway its a past life now. Haven't been up there for years. Value my FAL too much.
> 
> I have never and never will poach somebody's own personal property.
> If and when I have my own block blatant poachers would probably go missing
> 
> ...


True this is when wiser heads prevail and always used to.....but during those heady days when a good hind was worth $2500 farmers used threats, the trespass act and attempted prosecutions to control who hunted the large blocks of Public land around there own properties.

Its got better now that no one is catching and few deer are shot by machines nowadays... but I know a guy with a little 300c sitting in his shed who likes to crank it up and go for a pig hunt once in awhile. he said to me recently "I am damned if I know how you guys put up with it. Every time I get back from a hunt the phone is nearly ringing off the wall, ( He is a Farmer himself) bloody cockys have seen me poaching their properties. Bloody Doc have seen me on public land...Bloody police are ringing me because the cockys are complaining".

Most Cocky's cannot be convinced that the helicopter they see in the distance is not actually on their land. Is there some sort of range finder that a farmer could get that would convince them that the helicopter 10,000 metres away cannot possiby be hunting deer on their own tiny piece of the mudflats.

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## Scribe

What might have been

 Epitaph.

HERE LIES SCRIBE

SOMEONE PISSED IN HIS FUEL.

THEY GOT THE WRONG FUCKING GUY.

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## sneeze



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## craigc

> Make no mistake the owner of that truck was poaching on my block, he had no right to be there and should be trespassed, i hope the police followed through with what they said.
> The block is Lease hold and is part of the Gore NZDA blocks leased by Glenaray Station, now if they were members of the club they would of only had to book the block to hunt it and if they had a permit for Waikaia Forest they would of received a map showing them the boundarys of this block as a no go. Thats if they had a permit for Waikaia, i doubt they did.
> We know they were in the block simply because with fresh snow on the ground we just followed their foot prints from their truck straight into our block.
> As much as this sort of thing pisses me off an can end up in accidental shootings i wouldn't damage their vehicle but it would be tempting.
> Another thing worth considering is if they did shoot one of us whilst they were poaching is it still accidental or should charges be bumped up?


Yep, best left with the police. I also hope they go for a skate, tossers!

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## 7mmwsm

> True this is when wiser heads prevail and always used to.....but during those heady days when a good hind was worth $2500 farmers used threats, the trespass act and attempted prosecutions to control who hunted the large blocks of Public land around there own properties.
> 
> Its got better now that no one is catching and few deer are shot by machines nowadays... but I know a guy with a little 300c sitting in his shed who likes to crank it up and go for a pig hunt once in awhile. he said to me recently "I am damned if I know how you guys put up with it. Every time I get back from a hunt the phone is nearly ringing off the wall, ( He is a Farmer himself) bloody cockys have seen me poaching their properties. Bloody Doc have seen me on public land...Bloody police are ringing me because the cockys are complaining".
> 
> Most Cocky's cannot be convinced that the helicopter they see in the distance is not actually on their land. Is there some sort of range finder that a farmer could get that would convince them that the helicopter 10,000 metres away cannot possiby be hunting deer on their own tiny piece of the mudflats.


Lucky lots of shooters use those small diameter bullets nowdays. Some of these "shots" fired in this thread have landed pretty close to to their own feet.

I find the situation in central Otago, where a group of land owners have got approval from the police serve a trespass notice on individuals for "being on" back country roads, quite frightening. Roads are public places and to be served a trespass notice while in a public place is crazy. They appear to be saying that just because an individual is in an area they are up to no good. Some may be. But not everyone.

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## leathel

> If you have got the proof take it to court. Who made you judge and jury...are you the sort that would piss in my jerrycans of fuel because you supect I might be a poacher. Or pick up a stone and damage the paintwork on someones vehicle for the same reason.
> 
> Perhaps hes not poaching perhaps you just want to trespass him to keep him out of your favourite hunting area or try and scare him off by damaging his property.
> 
> Ever been lost up on the tops and cut down the wrong creek through DOC land and ended up on someones farm...With a rifle in your hands that two cases of poaching and if this hasnt happened to you yet you havnt done very much hunting. 
> 
> The same thing happens in low cloud with helicopters...you may be forced to fly across properties at low level under the cloud to get out of the area...Farmer paranoia and you lose your.... Pilots Licence for Low flying. Your Wild Animal Recovery Licence for poaching.
> and the courts may prosecute and sentence you to whatever they see fit for breaking the law. And pilots you say would take this sort of risk to chase someones deer into the fence just out of spite. 
> 
> ...


No I am not the kind of person to damage peoples gear....but I am the kind that if I had poachers taking animals to try and get it on camera etc..

I have no beef with someone flying low over the property but I do with those that take deer from that said property with number taped over to try and avoid being caught....or taking deer from an area they are not supposed to be.....and its farken hard to get footage good enough to stand up in court so some are risking it. 

You say you let hunters on your land ....but is that free for all or do you expect to be asked so you have an idea who is on your place? 

I in know way condone damaging gear but when people have there farm getting hammered (It happens land and air) and they have not been able to catch the offenders red handed I can see how they can get all twisted...

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## JoshC

Small minority ruining it for everyone else. Happens in every game.

Some idiots drove through the back of our farm spotlighting on Saturday night. Instead of opening the 6 or 7 gates they drove through, they rammed them with their truck, bending most and f&*ing the hinges on two, and left them wide open. They weren't even padlocked! Two boundary gates were left wide open, and it was only lucky I went through first thing the next morning and found them, that a few hundred of our ewes weren't on the neighbours swedes helping themselves to a feed. 

We let hunters onto our place, only one party of hunters allowed per weekend for safety, and have never turned anyone away if they've asked and arent someone we've had previous issues with. Only last week, a local asked if he could go for a deer in the evening or morning, and was given permission to go to certain spots due to our sheep being set stock in certain blocks. I went out with some mates spotlighting possums for a few hours, and on our way home about midnight we caught up with this guy on his quad with a couple of mates, driving around the farm with a spotlight and high powered rifles "looking for possums"...bullsh*t! Worst thing was, he tried to laugh it off, and said my old man had let him go spotlighting! 

But when guys who ask are still breaking the rules, where do you draw the line? When this sort of sh*t happens, how do you think it makes a land owner feel? And when we start locking the gates and turning people away, guess who's going to be the called all the names under the sun and end up with a poaching problem that's completely out of hand. 

Some people just need to pull their f'n heads in and speak up if they know their mates are up to no good  :Angry:

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## Scribe

I have many problems with people that interfere with others whose enjoyment of our land is a right not a priviledge.

Just a couple of things that I want to mention here...Farmers are going to need in the future every person on their side they can get.
They should not be in the game of interfering or trying to make life difficult for hunters or fishermen...many Farmers control the access to many thousand of Hects of Public Land..Throught paper roads and the queens chain.

More and more access points into Public Land have DOC gates on them now. You park at the gate and get your gear sorted and prepare to walk in and hello up rolls a Four wheel Drive and someone with a key. You say "where are you going mate" and sure enough he's going to your hunting spot. You say where did you get the Key..He says "Oh I have got a mate at DOC who lets me have the key to all of there blocks". "So are we now in the game of providing hunting areas for the new elite of this country".

Huge areas of what was public Land and public forest, Have become part of treaty settlements... Kaingaroa Forest...Over the last couple of years the public has been excluded from this Forests...Like Farmers I dont think Forest owners should be in such a hurry to make enemies of the public be they fishermen. hunters, or armed trampers. 

And yes, I do not live on my block of land and the hunting is pretty much free range to the locals. I used to breed a lot of pigs and let them go just to add my bit for the hunting world.

I was coming back through the gorge next to my place one day when I see this big Maori walking along the roadside with a good pig on his back but making hard work of it. I pulled over and said to him I will sit with the pig while you take the dog and go and get your car. I said "thats a nice pig". He said "its a bloody beauty, I was driving through the gorge yesterday in the Milk Tanker and I saw him rooting down on the flat, so this morning I went and got my mates dog and caught it.
I said "its one of my pigs I bred and let go awhile back" He said "Nah its a wild pig". I said "its got an earmark". 
The guy followed me back to my place for a brew and a yarn and I got more of a thrill out of this guy who wasnt a hunter catching my pig than I would ever have myself catching it myself. I would meet this guy on the street, at the local marae at Anzac day and on other occasions and he always treated me better than his very best cuzzie bro.

When our ancestor brought game animals and birds to this country they did not intend for them to become the preserve of only the rich landowning class...Fish and Game shall belong to no man except those who take it legally.

How does a person take fish or game legally when he has been trespassed, his access blocked, and the paper road and the queens chain fenced and the gates slammed shut in his face.

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## el borracho

Well put Scribe !!!

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## R93

Some hunters are as annoying as engaging the clutch on a 300. As Josh pointed out, they allow people access to hunt their land, yet some complete assholes rather barrel thru unlocked gates.
There has to be some way of regulating access IMO or its a free for all. 
I hate it when some idiot knows there is someone else in an area but still walks into it with intention of hunting it when there is tons of other country to lurk around in.

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## Scribe

> Lucky lots of shooters use those small diameter bullets nowdays. Some of these "shots" fired in this thread have landed pretty close to to their own feet.
> 
> I find the situation in central Otago, where a group of land owners have got approval from the police serve a trespass notice on individuals for "being on" back country roads, quite frightening. Roads are public places and to be served a trespass notice while in a public place is crazy. They appear to be saying that just because an individual is in an area they are up to no good. Some may be. But not everyone.


Talking of small diameter bullets and feet. Now I have a friend who used to draw beautiful cartoons for us. The huts used to be decorated with them..Some done on airdrop cartons with a piece of charcoal out of the fire. Gradually they were all taken by Hunters. Chris was the Bonus hunter on our block until he put a small calibre, fast expanding, frangible bullet... IE  222..50gr through the thickest point of his foot. 
If it had have been a bigger calibre he would have been better off. It would not have exanded quite as rapidly, by the time it had punched through bullers and sock it was a big little projectile going fast...The Human Foot has... 26 bones, 33 joints, 107 ligaments, 19 muscles and tendons. What a mess.
This is one of the cartoons done by Chris. They all have a story to them...I dont remember them all unfortunatley. I will post some more of them in the magazine section if people want to see them....... I dont remember the story behind this one. I just know it was about a poaching incident when some of the Cullers on the North Eastern block poached the NW block.
We were handicapped on the NW side because we had to take tails and ears whereas the NE only had to take tails. So when they poached the stations on our side they also took tails and ears and we always got the blame for it. But we were all Gentlemen in those days...the station owners finally figured out it was the guys from across the range doing it so then we ripped in and shot the places up knowing taking tails and ears knowing they would get the blame for that too.

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## Malhunting

> Small minority ruining it for everyone else. Happens in every game.
> 
> Some idiots drove through the back of our farm spotlighting on Saturday night. Instead of opening the 6 or 7 gates they drove through, they rammed them with their truck, bending most and f&*ing the hinges on two, and left them wide open. They weren't even padlocked! Two boundary gates were left wide open, and it was only lucky I went through first thing the next morning and found them, that a few hundred of our ewes weren't on the neighbours swedes helping themselves to a feed. 
> 
> We let hunters onto our place, only one party of hunters allowed per weekend for safety, and have never turned anyone away if they've asked and arent someone we've had previous issues with. Only last week, a local asked if he could go for a deer in the evening or morning, and was given permission to go to certain spots due to our sheep being set stock in certain blocks. I went out with some mates spotlighting possums for a few hours, and on our way home about midnight we caught up with this guy on his quad with a couple of mates, driving around the farm with a spotlight and high powered rifles "looking for possums"...bullsh*t! Worst thing was, he tried to laugh it off, and said my old man had let him go spotlighting! 
> 
> But when guys who ask are still breaking the rules, where do you draw the line? When this sort of sh*t happens, how do you think it makes a land owner feel? And when we start locking the gates and turning people away, guess who's going to be the called all the names under the sun and end up with a poaching problem that's completely out of hand. 
> 
> Some people just need to pull their f'n heads in and speak up if they know their mates are up to no good


Fucken arseholes mate, did you still have the cameras set up?

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## Savage1

> I have many problems with people that interfere with others whose enjoyment of our land is a right not a priviledge.
> 
> Just a couple of things that I want to mention here...Farmers are going to need in the future every person on their side they can get.
> They should not be in the game of interfering or trying to make life difficult for hunters or fishermen...many Farmers control the access to many thousand of Hects of Public Land..Throught paper roads and the queens chain.
> 
> More and more access points into Public Land have DOC gates on them now. You park at the gate and get your gear sorted and prepare to walk in and hello up rolls a Four wheel Drive and someone with a key. You say "where are you going mate" and sure enough he's going to your hunting spot. You say where did you get the Key..He says "Oh I have got a mate at DOC who lets me have the key to all of there blocks". "So are we now in the game of providing hunting areas for the new elite of this country".
> 
> Huge areas of what was public Land and public forest, Have become part of treaty settlements... Kaingaroa Forest...Over the last couple of years the public has been excluded from this Forests...Like Farmers I dont think Forest owners should be in such a hurry to make enemies of the public be they fishermen. hunters, or armed trampers. 
> 
> ...


You realize releasing pigs is an offence? Do you realize the damage they do? And then you go and whinge about 1080.

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## Scribe

> You realize releasing pigs is an offence? Do you realize the damage they do? And then you go and whinge about 1080.


Where have you been. Check out Pigs being released on Molesworth Station by DOC and Animal Health Board. 

Pigs are no more prone to spreading TB than Sheep. 
Anyway this subject was covered very well in Rushy's thread in 
OFF TOPIC.. Page three NZ HERALD NEWSPAPER ARTICLE...Time Bomb Pigs released in Southland.  

I just havnt the time to complete you education.

While you are scratching around Savage find me the appropriate article where it shows it is an offence to buy a pig and put it on your farm.

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## JoshC

Yeah but not where this happened mate. We have an idea of who it was, and the cop is checking them out before they pull the can off matt black out on their bullbars!

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## Scribe

> Lucky lots of shooters use those small diameter bullets nowdays. Some of these "shots" fired in this thread have landed pretty close to to their own feet.
> 
> I find the situation in central Otago, where a group of land owners have got approval from the police serve a trespass notice on individuals for "being on" back country roads, quite frightening. Roads are public places and to be served a trespass notice while in a public place is crazy. They appear to be saying that just because an individual is in an area they are up to no good. Some may be. But not everyone.


Your post small projectiles hitting feet made me think of this guy Chris who I happened to be writing about anyway. Chris was good with a pen or even a piece of charcoal out of a fire...Most of his cartoons and drawings have been stolen from the huts now but they all have a story to them which I have forgotten in many cases. Chris shot himself in the thickest part of his foot with the 222. By the time this fast expanding projectile punched a hole in his bullers and sock it was a big little projectile still going fast. The human foot has 26 bones, 33 joints, 107 ligaments 19 muscles and tendons...What a mess. He could have chosen to carry the 303 and he probably wouldnt even have a limp. 

Anyway this cartoon is about a poach done on our block, the NW, by some of the NE boys. We were handicapped on our side by having to take both the tails and ears whereas the North eastern boys only took tails...So when they poached our side of the range they took tails and ears and mostly got away with it. But we were all gentlemen in those days and held no hard feelings. We just bided our time and after they were caught we went and poached the Kaweka Kiamanawa blocks knowing the NE boys would be blamed for that to.

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## Savage1

> Where have you been. Check out Pigs being released on Molesworth Station by DOC and Animal Health Board. 
> 
> Pigs are no more prone to spreading TB than Sheep. 
> Anyway this subject was covered very well in Rushy's thread in 
> OFF TOPIC.. Page three NZ HERALD NEWSPAPER ARTICLE...Time Bomb Pigs released in Southland.  
> 
> I just havnt the time to complete you education.
> 
> While you are scratching around Savage find me the appropriate article where it shows it is an offence to buy a pig and put it on your farm.


Wild Animal Control Act 1977 Section 11 Subsection 1.

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## Scribe

> Wild Animal Control Act 1977 Section 11 Subsection 1.


Ehhh.. Come again, where does this act say that I cant buy a pig from down the road and put it on my farm.

And do DOC/AHB have special dispensation to release wild pigs and are they some sort of special pig that doesnt root...eat native plants or make a mess. ???.

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## Savage1

> Ehhh.. Come again, where does this act say that I cant buy a pig from down the road and put it on my farm.
> 
> And do DOC/AHB have special dispensation to release wild pigs???.


Read the definition of a wild animal.

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## Scribe

> Read the definition of a wild animal.


Read the deffinition of pig and farm.

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## Savage1

> Read the deffinition of pig and farm.


So you are saying you had your place fenced so the pigs could not escape? So the person who you mentioned had gotten your pig had come onto your place to get it? Poaching?

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## gimp

I don't think it's poaching if the owner (scribe) doesn't mind.

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## Savage1

> I don't think it's poaching if the owner (scribe) doesn't mind.


Well he hadn't asked so even so it would be theft.

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## Scribe

> So you are saying you had your place fenced so the pigs could not escape? So the person who you mentioned had gotten your pig had come onto your place to get it? Poaching?


I already told you that I dont live there any more so the locals including a couple of my neighbours hunt there when it suits them. The place was deer fenced and had an electric wire around the bottom of the fence. Inside the block were deer (Reds', Sambar probably and rusa possibly). At that time when the tanker driver got the pig it was just off the road on the river flats not constrained by my fence at all . It had possibly escaped, possibly been caught and turned lose out side the fence...Possibly one of the locals had taken it to his place and it got away and returned home or someone had left the gate open... 'savage'.... I dont know where the pig had been and it was dead so I couldnt ask it.
The block has now been split up and sold and I have retained two blocks so though the boundary is deer fenced there are now three accesses to the block so even if I wanted to control who went on the block I probably would only make grief for myself.

Anyway I like to see people enjoying themselves hunting and if a pig is silly enough to show himself to the locals its, sorry pig.

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## Savage1

> I already told you that I dont live there any more so the locals including a couple of my neighbours hunt there when it suits them. The place was deer fenced and had an electric wire around the bottom of the fence. Inside the block were deer (Reds'
>  Sambar probably and rusa possibly). At that time when the tanker driver got the pig it was just off the road on the river flats not constrained by my fence at all . It had possibly escaped, possibly been caught and turned lose out side the fence...Possibly one of the locals had taken it to his place and it got away and returned home... 'savage'.... I dont know where the pig had been and it was dead so I couldnt ask it.
> The block has now been split up and sold and I have retained two blocks so though the boundary is deer fenced there are now three accesses to the block so even if I wanted to control who went on the block I probably would only make grief for myself.
> 
> Anyway I like to see people enjoying themselves hunting and if a pig is silly enough to show himself to the locals its, sorry pig.


Sorry mate, I take some of what I said back.

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## Scribe

> Talking of small diameter bullets and feet. Now I have a friend who used to draw beautiful cartoons for us. The huts used to be decorated with them..Some done on airdrop cartons with a piece of charcoal out of the fire. Gradually they were all taken by Hunters. Chris was the Bonus hunter on our block until he put a small calibre, fast expanding, frangible bullet... IE  222..50gr through the thickest point of his foot. 
> If it had have been a bigger calibre he would have been better off. It would not have exanded quite as rapidly, by the time it had punched through bullers and sock it was a big little projectile going fast...The Human Foot has... 26 bones, 33 joints, 107 ligaments, 19 muscles and tendons. What a mess.
> This is one of the cartoons done by Chris. They all have a story to them...I dont remember them all unfortunatley. I will post some more of them in the magazine section if people want to see them....... I dont remember the story behind this one. I just know it was about a poaching incident when some of the Cullers on the North Eastern block poached the NW block.
> We were handicapped on the NW side because we had to take tails and ears whereas the NE only had to take tails. So when they poached the stations on our side they also took tails and ears and we always got the blame for it. But we were all Gentlemen in those days...the station owners finally figured out it was the guys from across the range doing it so then we ripped in and shot the places up knowing taking tails and ears knowing Attachment 2346they would get the blame for that too.


Get rid of the extra one for me R93 putting up these pictures is too much.

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## Scribe

> Sorry mate, I take some of what I said back.


Now, now, not so fast you cant just slither away I have got my foot on your tail....You havnt answered my questions yet.

How come these pigs that DOC/AHB release dont, spread TB, Damage the environment, eat ground nesting birds, and root the place up.

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## veitnamcam

> Now, now, not so fast you cant just slither away I have got my foot on your tail....You havnt answered my questions yet.
> 
> How come these pigs that DOC/AHB release dont, spread TB, Damage the environment, eat ground nesting birds, and root the place up.


Im guessing its probably the same reason that makes it ok for them to decimate the Kea population to "save" our indigenous flora and fauna

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## Malhunting

> Yeah but not where this happened mate. We have an idea of who it was, and the cop is checking them out before they pull the can off matt black out on their bullbars!


What a bunch of CUNTS its probably a good thing the old fella ain't up for swinging fists at the mo or it may of been dealt with already. :Have A Nice Day: 
Seriously they are some serious arseholes to do that when they could of opened them quicker probably and not put stock at risk.
Hope the cops get them.

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## Pointer

Might be time for some serious boundary gates* JoshC*? Big forestry type ones? Stop the ram raids at least

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## R93

> Might be time for some serious boundary gates* JoshC*? Big forestry type ones? Stop the ram raids at least


A bank of claymores with laser trip and fixed interlocking arc GPMGS would be more fun. :Grin: 

I would not have believed people could be such selfish assholes unless I seen similar violations myself. I seriously hope they get caught and shamed publicly, I would like too see them confiscate their firearms licence as well, if they have one.

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## JoshC

Tried that in the past...mainly when logging opeerations were going on. Just made things worse. If people want to get in they will. Seen tracks cut round gates, we're talking spade work, chainsaws, the works, we've caught people with generators and grinders/welders cutting their way in, had gates ripped out completely and towed a few hundred metres down the road and thrown in gullies, padlocks tampered with (inside metal boxes) superglued, match sticks rammed into the key slot, you name it we've probably seen it.

Stupid thing is, the worst offenders would've been granted access to hunt, fish, collect firewood etc if they'd only asked!...they just don't like having restrcitions put on them, especially in an area where they have grown up raping and pillaging the land till their hearts content. Now most of them have trespass notices, criminal convictions, etc. Thick as pig sh*t some of them. Haha

Now we just monitor with cameras, happily snapping photos of vehicles snooping around, and have pretty good neighbours who monitor suspicious behaviour and pass any info to the local policeman. He has a nice wee folder of "evidence" sitting and waiting for a rainy day. None of them realise there's always someone watching.

R93, haha, I won't respond to that  :Wink:

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## Rushy

> A bank of claymores with laser trip and fixed interlocking arc GPMGS would be more fun.


Some jumping jack land mines and a few punji pits where they might take a piss would also be worth investing in.  I am assuming the heavy duty barrel on the gimpies?

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## Scribe

> Some jumping jack land mines and a few punji pits where they might take a piss would also be worth investing in.  I am assuming the heavy duty barrel on the gimpies?


The tit for tat game ends up costly for both sides in the end.

An eye for an eye soon means both sides are blind.

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## R93

> Some jumping jack land mines and a few punji pits where they might take a piss would also be worth investing in.  I am assuming the heavy duty barrel on the gimpies?


Na just the standard SF barrel will get thru a box of link  :Thumbsup: 

All jokes aside, I have heard of puddles on a vehicle track dug out that look innocent but will trap a vehicle until Mr Plod arrives. Might only work on the coast where there is a chance of them staying full.

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## leathel

> All jokes aside, I have heard of puddles on a vehicle track dug out that look innocent but will trap a vehicle until Mr Plod arrives. Might only work on the coast where there is a chance of them staying full.


a couple of trips ago we went down a track with a large puddle in it... we went around, was dry the whole time we were in there and on the way out the puddle was empty.....could have berried a small jap car complettely.... At the bottom was a smaller hole to an underground stream...I learnt a long while agao to try and avoid them if you can after my father lost a bike to seat hight in one as he didn't want to go to close to the edge.  :Thumbsup:

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