# Firearms and Shooting > Shooting >  Urgent Message For All Lake Lyndon Target Shooters

## CBrom97

Delete if not allowed. Apologies if so.

Trying to garnish some community support for Canterbury district outdoor rifle shooters. 

As quite few keen target shooters know, Lake Lyndon (Near Arthur's Pass/15 minutes inland past springfield) is the closest DOC place to go for shooters who live in or around Christchurch but don't have access to rural private property to shoot on.

I have been on multiple occasions with friends over the past few months for a sensible target gong shoot away from the road (and well away from the busy lake) and onto a hill inside the DOC legal area for hunting. It is about 1 and a half hours from where I live. There are always other shooters nearby shooting in their own safe direction. This has been a locally famous target shoot area for years!

Was just out for a social shoot with a few mates today (all responsible firearms license holders)  and as we were packing up after a few hours a park ranger drove up to us on the field asking for our hunting permits (to which we respectfully cooperated and had shown) He then mentioned that we could no longer shoot there anymore as per complaints from tourists, and hikers about noise levels and littering of ammunition and target debris from other shooters. Another apparent reason was because of the ongoing illegal use of tracer rounds setting fire to areas of the hill side. He said he "doesn't mind if people quickly sight in their rifle but not keep going bang, bang, bang..." So we packed up and left.

My personal feelings is that of frustration and disappointment. My disappointment as to why irresponsible shooters ruin the opportunities of those who respectfully obey the law and clean up after themselves. My frustration however, is the complete lack of alternative options and towards a cavalier, lazy and unfair approach from the regional council/Department of Conservation. So basically if you have a rifle in Christchurch and don't live in or know anyone rural, and want to shoot outside in the country for an hour or day of target shooting (without driving and hiking for an eternity) you're out of luck. Pretty sad for a nationally and even internationally acclaimed hunting region with the highest firearms ownership and licensed holders in NZ. Quite appalling I think. 

I wonder what's so difficult about designating a special area/side of the hills/field away from but access to a driveable road for shooters who just want to hit steel and not hunt. I know many shooters will be extremely upset on this one. I'm understandable and at terms with the conditions of risk to those in the area though I think the whole situation could be handled much more effectively than just saying, "you can no longer shoot here." 

I hope a proper alternative might be introduced as a result of this. 
There's really not much else around outside of a club environment.

What do people think about this?

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## Marty Henry

Actually the ranger sounds quite reasonable, shooting is still allowed but as usual its twats that have drawn attention to the situation.
You had permits so well done, I also suspect you policed your brass and targets and didnt do any "magdumps" but the problem has arisen because not everyone is as responsible.
The formality of a club does not appeal to everyone but it does ensure the shooting environment is kept clean, and as for tracer theres a reason clubs ban it.
I suggest you continue going there talk to other shooters you see and clean up any crap thats lying around maybe put up a sign and if that gets used as a target pack up and join a club.

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## Beavis

I think that DOC should set aside areas of PCL where you can go an cut loose. We unofficially have a simililar peice of land in my area that is effectively a wide open space, with nothing to really see, so is only used by four wheel drivers, shooters, hunters and trail riders. Doc and the ajoining Maori trust have talked about shutting it down for years because they see it as a liability.

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## gimp

It was sadly inevitable that it would be closed up eventually - the neighbouring properties have endless problems with damage to fences, poaching, trespassing; there is shit left everywhere; there is some incredibly unsafe shooting; muppets on dirt bikes and in 4wds have been ripping up every hill or swampy bit. 

Idiots will always ruin things for everyone.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> It was sadly inevitable that it would be closed up eventually - the neighbouring properties have endless problems with damage to fences, poaching, trespassing; there is shit left everywhere; there is some incredibly unsafe shooting; muppets on dirt bikes and in 4wds have been ripping up every hill or swampy bit. 
> 
> Idiots will always ruin things for everyone.


This. It's a shambles up there

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## CBrom97

> Actually the ranger sounds quite reasonable, shooting is still allowed but as usual its twats that have drawn attention to the situation.
> You had permits so well done, I also suspect you policed your brass and targets and didnt do any "magdumps" but the problem has arisen because not everyone is as responsible.
> The formality of a club does not appeal to everyone but it does ensure the shooting environment is kept clean, and as for tracer theres a reason clubs ban it.
> I suggest you continue going there talk to other shooters you see and clean up any crap thats lying around maybe put up a sign and if that gets used as a target pack up and join a club.


He was somewhat reasonable about the situation you're right. However it was clear he didn't really want anymore shooting hence he is going to totally fence off the open areas and put up a sign. Yes brass is polished and cleaned up as well as targets. I won't risk going back because our names were written down. Cheers

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## stug

Under what rule/piece of legislation has he banned target shooting?

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## CBrom97

Unfortunately Kiwis are notorious for ruining things for others. A delegated space to just 'cut loose' would certainly be a good resolve imo. And if it gets trashed then leave it to the people to be responsible for it. However controlling the use of tracer may be tricky. Maybe the sale should be banned altogether. I don't feel that the real issue has been dealt with.

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## CBrom97

> Under what rule/piece of legislation has he banned target shooting?


Good point, not sure but I'd certainly like to see it!

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## Moutere

To play devils advocate, I'd say the hunting permit grants access with a firearm for the purposes of hunting and not gong shooting?

The situation sure is unfortunate, shame it's been spoilt by the few.

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## CBrom97

I had a mate say, "You can't go to the beach but you can use the 2 community pools in all of Christchurch - Except I'll bet more people have died at Brighton or Sumner than at Lyndon because of shooting."

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## CBrom97

> To play devils advocate, I'd say the hunting permit grants access with a firearm for the purposes of hunting and not gong shooting?
> 
> The situation sure is unfortunate, shame it's been spoilt by the few.


No, no - fair point. One could perhaps potentially misunderstand it by it not saying you can't either. I guess it really was inevitable like people say :/

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## paddygonebush

From discussions with DOC hunting permits are for hunting. Target shooting/gongs etc is not not specified on a Hunting Permit. The very reasons you put up is why they are now starting to crack down on it "per complaints from tourists, and hikers about noise levels and littering of ammunition and target debris from other shooters. Another apparent reason was because of the ongoing illegal use of tracer rounds setting fire to areas of the hill side. "

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## CBrom97

> From discussions with DOC hunting permits are for hunting. Target shooting/gongs etc is not not specified on a Hunting Permit. The very reasons you put up is why they are now starting to crack down on it "per complaints from tourists, and hikers about noise levels and littering of ammunition and target debris from other shooters. Another apparent reason was because of the ongoing illegal use of tracer rounds setting fire to areas of the hill side. "


I know that's why they're cracking down on it. I just stated that first hand. I'm just unfuriated at the absence of options for those who do not wish to hunt and want to sharpen up on their marksmanship. If you don't know a farmer with land nearby, there's no where else to shoot past 100 metres (e.g away from a club range)

It's ashame really with all the open space of the vast Canterbury region and they kick up a stink on a small area. It's pathetic. I hope now they could at least edit their permits to include a no go on deliberate target shooting in the area. It's pretty cloudy and not all that clear on the 'yay' or 'nays' In fact, if you go further inland I doubt you'd get any more hassle if anyone still did it. It's the hikers and fires from tracer they're most worried about which is fair I guess, not so much the unlawfulness of shooting targets which by the way isn't any more dangerous than shooting animals. Saying it's not listed on a permit isn't really good enough for saying it's wrong because to my knowledge, there is no mention at all. It's a grey area.

I still believe the situation is handled very poorly in not offering a just solution to the hundreds of responsible shooters that attend and enjoy the outdoors there. 

It is what it is at the end of the day.

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## Moutere

Re-read your permit, it's not grey or cloudy at all.

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## CBrom97

> Re-read your permit, it's not grey or cloudy at all.


Show me where I can't. There's enough reason to say that I am in the 'Green Zone' than not and without a permit anyway.

The ranger actually was happy to see it. Look, I see the depth of what people are saying but your side as well as mine remain unvalidated on paper. If a shooter was responsible, aware to environment and cleaned up after himself tell me how that is any more dangerous than hunting?

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## CBrom97

I'm not trying to start an argument. Just seeking legislative clarity on a subject that perhaps needs to be better addressed.

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## 7x64

I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say it’s a grey area - you have a hunting permit, not a general dicking about discharging firearms permit. From a liability perspective it would be irresponsible for DOC / RCs to condone this (cf the hoops clubs jump through to be allowed to operate). 

Why not just join a club?

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## bigbear

Why dont you ring doc in the morning and ask? get them to show you the grey area.

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## Moutere

> Show me where I can't. There's enough reason to say that I am in the 'Green Zone' than not and without a permit anyway.
> 
> The ranger actually was happy to see it. Look, I see the depth of what people are saying but your side as well as mine remain unvalidated on paper. If a shooter was responsible, aware to environment and cleaned up after himself tell me how that is any more dangerous than hunting?


Now this is entirely my own opinion interpretation here, be it correct or incorrect.
It's a hunting permit, no where does it make mention of shooting, plinking gongs or load development etc.
You weren't hunting.

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## Sidney

Frankly I'm pissed off when hunters come to a hunting area to sight their rifles in.... let alone thinking that they can set up some sort of unregulated target range.

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## CBrom97

I don't think 'Dicking about' is the greatest term for it. If I was randomly shooting to the hills then yes. It is concentrated fire at a small target in a safe direction. I don't 'dick about' with firearms. Clubs don't offer much past 100 metres?

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## 7x64

> I don't think 'Dicking about' is the greatest term for it. If I was randomly shooting to the hills then yes. It is concentrated fire at a small target in a safe direction. I don't 'dick about' with firearms. Clubs don't offer much past 100 metres?


I know of at least three clubs closer to town than Lyndon that do, possibly four....

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## Moutere

Phone DOC and put a case forward for a designated area to shoot gongs.
With enough support you never know what might be achieved if a club range is not your thing.
I completely understand your frustration, been there when I was younger... joined a club.

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## 223nut

> Frankly I'm pissed off when hunters come to a hunting area to sight their rifles in.... let alone thinking that they can set up some sort of unregulated target range.


Completely argee, Yet another reason why here should be an area set aside for those that do want to sight in rifles / shoot gongs

Never been to the area personally, but do use doc administered land for sighting in/working out bullet drop. 

Usual case of a few people ruining it for the majority of users. 

This grey area could be an issue that once ironed out causes more headaches. You can apply for a rimfire permit for pest destruction but does this mean you can't have a plinking session with a 22? (safely set up and away from others, even using subsonics)

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## CBrom97

> Phone DOC and put a case forward for a designated area to shoot gongs.
> With enough support you never know what might be achieved if a club range is not your thing.
> I completely understand your frustration, been there when I was younger... joined a club.


Cheers for that. I don't mind a range I just like to go at times inland away from unknown people lol and as a group  :Have A Nice Day:  Kinda like fishing if you will!

Hopefully a better resolution might arise. It's not that I don't want to embrace safe shooting it's just nice to have options on where to go seeming hunters have the same liberty when they are also safety focused and aware and just as able for serious mistakes.

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## antbb212

Does anyone know of some open areas for target shooting near Auckland? Preferably northern Auckland?
Or even some shooting ranges that let you do your own thing?? I have a permit for DOC hunting areas in northland so the little forest by mangawhai heads as well as mangatawhiri forest. I havent been shooting at either of those yet but does anyone know if there are open shooting areas in either of those??

- Anthony

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## cambo

It's far easier to get hold of someone from NZDA and go to their range in McLeans Island than driving 1 /12 hrs out to Lyndon where it's more often than not blowing it's tits off or stinking hot.
$20 to use the range shit loads cheaper than fuel to drive out to Lyndon as well.
There are guys that are RO's that go out very frequently and are more than willing for a couple of extras to tag along.
Or wait till the public days when the range is open to the public

Too many cowboys/fucking idiots been going up to Lyndon and making an arse of themselves. Been many close calls up there.

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## Pengy

Watching this with interest, due to there being an NZDA sponsored range on DOC land, adjacent to a well used mountain bike track, at Nelson lakes area.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

If you want to go bomb up a hillside it should be done at a range or on private land. That lake Lyndon setup has always got on my nerves, some weekends you would be forgiven for thinking there was an army firing range or something up there. The users argue that they are being safe etc and not bothering anyone, the reason you're not bothering anyone is because nobody wants to use the area because it is a known fact that there are often shooters there so people stay away. It's a mess and attracts all sorts of undesirables in their shitty jacked up trucks and silly flat peak hats. There's brass and Codys bourbon cans and big 4wd ruts all over the show. Time it was shut up. These backcountry areas are meant to be for recreation, whether that be hiking or hunting etc and bombing it up every weekend just disturbs the area and leaves it good for fuck all.

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## Beavis

There are bugger all ranges that will allow you to shoot past 2 or 300 metres. So if you don't know anyone with a farm you can use for long range shooting you are buggered. There is nothing wrong with doing this on public land if you are sensible. Maybe the area is just too public or needs to be policed better. Anyway, I think that there should be junk bits of land with low hunting and sight seeing value set aside as public recreation areas. The land I mentioned before has been the playground for our town for decades. Hunters, target shooters and off roaders have shared it for years without any major incidents I have heard of. Yea, people dump rubbish and shit there, but that's no different to anywhere else in the area where you can get a vehicle. It is great to be able to drive to an open space in your ute with your guns and do some shooting in the wilderness and not be bothered or bother anyone else.

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## CBrom97

> There are bugger all ranges that will allow you to shoot past 2 or 300 metres. So if you don't know anyone with a farm you can use for long range shooting you are buggered. There is nothing wrong with doing this on public land if you are sensible. Maybe the area is just too public or needs to be policed better. Anyway, I think that there should be junk bits of land with low hunting and sight seeing value set aside as public recreation areas. The land I mentioned before has been the playground for our town for decades. Hunters, target shooters and off roaders have shared it for years without any major incidents I have heard of. Yea, people dump rubbish and shit there, but that's no different to anywhere else in the area where you can get a vehicle. It is great to be able to drive to an open space in your ute with your guns and do some shooting in the wilderness and not be bothered or bother anyone else.


My sentiment exactly. I am a member at a club and I'm most grateful for it though I don't always see myself using it for every shoot. Some of us want a bit of a non threatening challenge  :Wink:

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## mikee

> There are bugger all ranges that will allow you to shoot past 2 or 300 metres.


Which is why when you have access to such a range you make bloody sure you look after said range and access. I know I do




> So if you don't know anyone with a farm you can use for long range shooting you are buggered.


Pretty much



> There is nothing wrong with doing this on public land if you are sensible.


And thats the problem, other people also like to use the same public areas for hunting, tramping, mountain biking etc and since "common sense" has died and people will drive, walk, bike and generally fuck around on a range, , (with total disregard to any one actually using it for shooting at the time), it would need to be fenced including the Fallout/ Safety Zone and that means a club or business and rules.Not too mention shooters shoot "crap" and leave it there. Its sad but thats the way it is

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## upnorth uplander

> I know that's why they're cracking down on it. I just stated that first hand. I'm just unfuriated at the absence of options for those who do not wish to hunt and want to sharpen up on their marksmanship. If you don't know a farmer with land nearby, there's no where else to shoot past 100 metres (e.g away from a club range)
> 
> It's ashame really with all the open space of the vast Canterbury region and they kick up a stink on a small area. It's pathetic. I hope now they could at least edit their permits to include a no go on deliberate target shooting in the area. It's pretty cloudy and not all that clear on the 'yay' or 'nays' In fact, if you go further inland I doubt you'd get any more hassle if anyone still did it. It's the hikers and fires from tracer they're most worried about which is fair I guess, not so much the unlawfulness of shooting targets which by the way isn't any more dangerous than shooting animals. Saying it's not listed on a permit isn't really good enough for saying it's wrong because to my knowledge, there is no mention at all. It's a grey area.
> 
> I still believe the situation is handled very poorly in not offering a just solution to the hundreds of responsible shooters that attend and enjoy the outdoors there. 
> 
> It is what it is at the end of the day.


please explain the cloudy/grey area

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## PerazziSC3

It's not even that bad up there or wasn't when I was last up there.

If you are trying to hunt in that valley you are in the wrong spot. Plenty of animals shot in close proximity to the area but no need to go hunting in this exact spot.

Pretty disappointing as I don't have anywhere else to shoot out to reasonable distance in a semi controlled environment

More people will probably end up setting up in river flats now which is certainly less than ideal in terms of safety.

If someone could let me know where all these Canterbury ranges are that allow you to shoot from 100-1000m+ on regular occasion I'm all ears

Cheers

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## mikee

> It's not even that bad up there or wasn't when I was last up there.
> 
> If you are trying to hunt in that valley you are in the wrong spot. Plenty of animals shot in close proximity to the area but no need to go hunting in this exact spot.
> 
> Pretty disappointing as I don't have anywhere else to shoot out to reasonable distance in a semi controlled environment
> 
> More people will probably end up setting up in river flats now which is certainly less than ideal in terms of safety.
> 
> If someone could let me know where all these Canterbury ranges are that allow you to shoot from 100-1000m+ on regular occasion I'm all ears
> ...


Perhaps talk to the guys at the Ashburton Fullbore Club?? They used to have mounds out to 600, however they have just got their range back up and going as far a i am aware after issues with public safety due to someone building a mountain bike track behind the butts

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## PerazziSC3

Yeah that was the only one I knew of but it was closed down when I last enquired

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## mikee

> Yeah that was the only one I knew of but it was closed down when I last enquired


https://www.facebook.com/AshburtonRifle/

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## JWB

> Yeah that was the only one I knew of but it was closed down when I last enquired



https://www.facebook.com/MalvernRifleClub/

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## Husky1600

The Lake Lyndon issue has been brewing for quite some time. And it doesn't help that some 4WDer's, some bike riders, and some shooters give all of us a bad name. Unfortunately your hunting permit is for hunting, target practice etc is not covered in the legislation for hunting permits, so yes DoC are within their rights to stop you target shooting.......unfortunately. DoC has had discussions with the ChCh NZDA and both were in agreement that it was unacceptable. Why the hell both of them didn't put their heads together and agree there is a need, and create an area, I dont know. I see it as yet another opportunity for DoC to  further their anti hunting agenda. As for ChCh NZDA, they need to push for a designated long range area for everybody, it is definitely needed in the area.

I spent 3 weeks in Colorado last year, and went to the local range on a couple of occasions. The local council, Fish and Wildlife, Safari Club, and several local shooting groups identified a need for an area where people could sight in their firearms, have a play,  etc. They got together and utilised a piece of public land and built a 100 metre rifle range with 4 or 5 concrete benches, a pistol range with target frames from 15-100 metres, and a clay bird range with 4 clay bird throwers. It allows people to sight in their firearms in a semi controlled environment with proper targets etc and keeps most of them from driving down the river bed, or on to public land to do it. It is self policing, the rubbish was cleaned up. There are a group of older guys that volunteer to turn up on occasions to provide guidance and renew the targets etc. I never saw it abused, and there was over 40 people turned up to use it in the few hours I was there. Toilets were on sight. Paper targets were free, staple guns were provided. All they asked was a donation for the upkeep, and I saw probably 20 people put 20-30 bucks each for their group in the honesty box.

Yes, I know it wasn't long range. But the point is the local community identified a need to make it safer for everybody, and worked together to satisfy that need. A lot of us dont want to go to the local full bore range, the perception is they are a bunch of old cronies, and you are limited to certain days, and they dont like your rifle cos its black, or its a semi, or its a 223, or you want to shoot steel etc. But a lot of us just like a few hours out plinking, maybe steel, maybe at long range.

If DoC are hell bent on fencing off an area so we cant go there, then theres no buy in from whatever group you belong to, be it 4WD, or bike, or shooting, and the fences will eventually get trashed anyways. And there is no legislation to allow DoC to stop you taking a vehicle on public land, except in a National Park, so long as you dont cause wilful damage. They restrict you from public land simply by bluff.

There are millions of hectares of public land out there, nearly all of it % wise that is unavailable to 4WD's or motorbikes or shooters simply because of topography. Is it not ok to ask that a tiny bit of it, maybe 500-1000 hectares close to a big urban area is set aside so that shooters can shoot safely, fenced off, signposted? And I'd bet you would find that it would be self policing. Trampers can tramp bloody near anywhere, let them miss out on a small piece of our land just so we can all work together safely.

It needs DoC to take some initiative to get the ball rolling, it needs the likes of the DA and Safari Club and any other interested group to all come together. And it needs to be utilised by responsible people so that we can keep out the bad bastards - is it too much to ask?

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## cambo

Lets be realistic about the area....
1 - Its not a designated range, its public DoC controlled land in an area that is highly utilised for many recreational activities
2 - Its open to anyone and as such people tend to go anywhere/everywhere 
3 - It's been trashed and abused by fuckwits for a very long time
4 - it does't put hunters in a very good light when non hunters go up there and see the damage and rubbish everywhere
5 - its fucking dangerous as hell
6 - just because its a public area of land doesn't mean you can do what you want there

Basically if you want some LR target shooting practice, join a club and use their ranges. Learn to hit the targets correctly concentrating on good groupings. Learn to dial and/or hold over at the distances at the club ranges so when/if you decide to do a LR target comp or whatever, you can shoot with confidence. 

DON'T GO OUT AND BOMB UP A VERY ACCESSIBLE PUBLIC AREA!

Yes, a purpose built area would be ideal, but when has any govt dept/agency done anything like that for anyone here? Unless is paid for by the private user or commercial entity it won't happen.

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## paddygonebush

> I don't think 'Dicking about' is the greatest term for it. If I was randomly shooting to the hills then yes. It is concentrated fire at a small target in a safe direction. I don't 'dick about' with firearms. Clubs don't offer much past 100 metres?


The hill you were shooting into has trampers and mtb tracks that people walk on top of it....

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## PerazziSC3

> The hill you were shooting into has trampers and mtb tracks that people walk on top of it....


Really? The only "tracks" I know of are not really all that close to where the shooting happens.

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## PJC

Ive got a bit of a boot in all camps here.  I have used the lake lyndon area a few times to sight in a rifle, am a hunter (well used to be) and also a member of a rifle club that shoots out to fairly long range.  I have always felt more afraid of getting shot by a hunter than someone sighting in their rifle, which is why I usually hunted outside the roar in areas unlikely to have many hunters and prefered to hunt in winter when there are less hunters around.  There are a lot of stories of hunters getting shot by their hunting mate, I dont remember anyone ever getting shot by someone sighting in their rifle (please correct me if I am wrong).

You really need to have sighted your rifle in before shooting at some of the long range clubs, the shortest distance they shoot is often 300 yards, so it can be a bit difficult finding your target at that range.

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## 7x64

> As for ChCh NZDA, they need to push for a designated long range area for everybody, it is definitely needed in the area


Maybe you should pop along to the next meeting, join, and point this out to them? Or do you expect to sit back and let organisations that you don’t belong to provide facilities for you? Any club is only as good as its members, and if everyone whinging about needing a range got themselves organised, joined an organisation, you could get somewhere... some of these guys sound like boy racers - “we should have things laid on for us, because we’re special...”

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## PJC

and I never thought of myself as an old cronie, tho I am getting older.  I dont remember many black rifles at the range, and you are allowed to shoot 223.  Some people turn up with P14 303s.

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## paddygonebush

> Really? The only "tracks" I know of are not really all that close to where the shooting happens.


I have driven past and seen guys shooting into a hill that also had guys mtb down off the top within 5min of the guys packing up, and have seen trampers along the top of the hill that people shoot into. 
I would like to have an area to go and shoot gongs at, don't get me wrong. But getting up in arms about doing something that isn't permitted during January when a heap more people will be about.

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## Husky1600

7x64, agreed, however I am already an NZDA member of another branch. I dont expect to sit back, but at some point somebody or some organisation with a bit of clout has to take a stand and start the ball rolling, not just for the good of the DA, but for the good of the whole shooting/firearms community. I dont have the answers, and unfortunately I dont have the opportunity to take this further as there are one or 2 other more pressing issues for me right now. But I will put my name in the hat and say that if DoC and the hunting/shooting fraternity can come to some agreement for a designated area, I'm prepared to provide the labour to fence it free of charge, if somebody can provide a tractor and post driver.

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## stuart165

Its almost funny as this is almost exactly as the Christchurch boy racers about ten years ago.(to be honest the problem cases are probably the same ones) people enjoyed getting out for years then some burnout muppets ruined it for everyone and got all car parks locked off because of the horrendous rubbish and public intimidation. then they all had a cry cause they wanted a burnout pad put somewhere for them so they could all be antisocial out of the way... lol. as soon as an area is put aside someone will go out and trash it. Best bet is to find somewhere, DONT post it on facebook and be careful who you take there.

and as far as i understand a doc permit is a permit to carry/discharge a rifle on public land for the purpose of hunting.

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## Beavis

^That's one of those questions I have never wanted to ask. I'm sure they would clarify it as hunting only and it would be all over for recreational shooting on public land. We need to be real careful what we ask for. They haven't told us we _can't_ do it yet.

Edit to add, the PCL I use for hunting and recreational shooting, I barely ever see another soul, let alone anybody from DOC. Obviously the situation there is a bit different.

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## CBrom97

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm glad some meaty discussion has arisen. I hope to be in touch with DoC on some safe and practical ideas for the vast plinking community who want to shoot at long distances. Sounds like an allegated area for gongs only is the get go. Some further input or other personal ideas will be appreciated.

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## tiroatedson

> If you want to go bomb up a hillside it should be done at a range or on private land. That lake Lyndon setup has always got on my nerves, some weekends you would be forgiven for thinking there was an army firing range or something up there. The users argue that they are being safe etc and not bothering anyone, the reason you're not bothering anyone is because nobody wants to use the area because it is a known fact that there are often shooters there so people stay away. It's a mess and attracts all sorts of undesirables in their shitty jacked up trucks and silly flat peak hats. There's brass and Codys bourbon cans and big 4wd ruts all over the show. Time it was shut up. These backcountry areas are meant to be for recreation, whether that be hiking or hunting etc and bombing it up every weekend just disturbs the area and leaves it good for fuck all.


Isn't 4 wheel driving and shooting classed as recreation...?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Ryan_Songhurst

In a responsible manner yes. Tearing up virgin ground and throwing your 8% woodys cans everywhere isnt responsible 4wding and neither is bombing up a hill in a well used recreational area responsible shooting

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## Driverman

I think that all councils should provide a shooting range for the general public to use just as they do for other sports like tennis rugby etc. The shooting community is one of the largest sporting groups in the country and should use their numbers to generate support. Nice to dream.

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## outdoorlad

@CBrom97 was the ranger a DOC employee or ECAN? And did he show you some ID/warrant card when asking for your permits? 

A friend said he went up to Lyndon last year & there was a bunch of camoed up guys running around with shotguns blasting up stuff FFS 
and people using tracer ammo on public land should have there FAL revoked for being fuckwits.

It’s a pity doc couldn’t fence a bit off there for shooters as with a bit of common sense it’s a safe spot for a bit of LR practice.

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## Uplandstalker

The hunting permit is pretty clear, it's for hunting.

Yes, I've shot targets/gongs up there and also hunted in the area. Last trip up there I brought back half a ute fill of other people rubbish and targets and paid to depose of it at the transfer station. Often fine shot gun shells, rimfire and other stuff that has no place being used on DoC land. 

As for comments regarding "no place to shoot", joining a club like the NZDA and NZHA might be a good start to get some range access. The other options are target shooting clubs like at Ashburton (same distance as Lyndon) and Melvern rife club. Yes, you can shoot you hunting rifle at these clubs.

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## Ryan

I don't have any skin in the game on this but WRT use of firearms on DOC land, I had a brief look on their website and:


_
Standard conditions
Standard conditions apply to all areas.

3. Hunters using a firearm must abide by the NZ Police Arms Code and the Arms Act 1983._

Permit conditions: Permits and licences

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## Moutere

First line on a permit from April last year.

_The permit authorises the above person to enter with a hunting weapon upon the specified permit area for the purpose of hunting or killing wild animals subject to the conditions printed on this permit and s38 of the Conservation Act 1987, s50 of the Reserves Act 1977 and s8 of the Wild Animal Control Act 1977_

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## Beavis

> First line on a permit from April last year.
> 
> _The permit authorises the above person to enter with a hunting weapon upon the specified permit area for the purpose of hunting or killing wild animals subject to the conditions printed on this permit and s38 of the Conservation Act 1987, s50 of the Reserves Act 1977 and s8 of the Wild Animal Control Act 1977_


The question is, are you specifically prohibited from entering public land administered by DOC, with a firearm, for any other purpose than hunting? Has this ever been taken into consideration? Is there any passage in legislation that says you cannot target shoot on PCL? If yes, then does that imply that your rifle can only be discharged towards a game animal? So if you have no luck but decide to shoot some clumps of dirt on a bank across a gorge for LR practice, you are breaching your permit conditions? I have frequently gone on hunting trips where some informal target shooting has taken place. Vice versa I have gone target shooting and plinking on DOC land, but have a hunting permit and would shoot an animal if I came across one. These are all things I would rather not make noise about unless it became necessary The status quo works for many outdoor users.

 I have always viewed the hunting permit as an arse covering excercise from DOC for firearm use on PCL - if you shoot somebody, they have told you on your permit to follow safety rules, no spotlighting etc so you can't come back at them. As well as informing of boundaries.

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## Moutere

Agreed, the status quo works for most people. Myself included.
However, just because something is tolerated doesn't mean that it is permitted.
In the context of the original post (shooting gongs) where do you see permission within the permit for anything outside hunting.
I'm sure it can be done on an individual basis, but not under this generic document if you ask me.




> The question is, are you specifically prohibited from entering public land administered by DOC, with a firearm, for any other purpose than hunting? Has this ever been taken into consideration? Is there any passage in legislation that says you cannot target shoot on PCL? If yes, then does that imply that your rifle can only be discharged towards a game animal? So if you have no luck but decide to shoot some clumps of dirt on a bank across a gorge for LR practice, you are breaching your permit conditions? I have frequently gone on hunting trips where some informal target shooting has taken place. Vice versa I have gone target shooting and plinking on DOC land, but have a hunting permit and would shoot an animal if I came across one. These are all things I would rather not make noise about unless it became necessary The status quo works for many outdoor users.
> 
>  I have always viewed the hunting permit as an arse covering excercise from DOC for firearm use on PCL - if you shoot somebody, they have told you on your permit to follow safety rules, no spotlighting etc so you can't come back at them. As well as informing of boundaries.

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## longrange308

Look, all was fine until fuck wits got loose
I have taken rubbish , cardboard,fry pans and even a fucking microwave out of there
And yes some fuck wit burnt most of the hill out with his cheap surplus tracer shit, that just starts another topic on a certain company selling it to every body as cheap fun
Then don’t get me started on the 4wd cocks that think every piece of land that has a slight incline that they have to boot it to spin the wheels to apply max mud to said vehicle for cool factor 

If everyone had looked after it there wouldn’t have been a problem

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## Smiddy

The way I see it, there will never be a dedicated shooting area for long range practice, it just isn't going to happen,  in this age there is to many loop holes to jump through,  and no doc or the council would not want to deal with it.
There simply would be no concent granted for such a thing.
There would be no easy way of policing the place,  and if something was to happen it would fall back on the providers of the long range range,  to much risk for a small minded council or doc person 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## outdoorlad

> And yes some fuck wit burnt most of the hill out with his cheap surplus tracer shit, that just starts another topic on a certain company selling it to every body as cheap fun
> 
> If everyone had looked after it there wouldn’t have been a problem


Yeah I agree 100%, selling tracer ammo in Canterbury is just plain fucking stupid and the idiots buying & using it aren’t much better.

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## Bagheera

I think a lot of people take the opportunity to do a bit of long range testing while out hunting in open country public land. I've done it myself near the Mt White road and on the Savannah range. But a Doc permit is to hunt not for high Volume target shooting, and it wouldn't have occurred to me to do it within sight of the main road. . This sounds quite different from a couple of hunters Using a box of ammo to sight in once a year. Would it be IOOX or 1000 X the number of shots? and how many people On site at once?

Now, it might not be impossible for Doc to host a range. They provide facilities for mountain bikers and trampers which would also require resource consents.. something like a hut fee say $10 per shooter per day  like TECT park in BOP could make it a cost neutral use for them. But if you've tried to set up a range you'll Know the detailed risk management planning required.If Doc have really approached NZDA thats a very encouraging sign.

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## Sidney

It cannot happen on an officially sanctioned basis.... to much risk is uncontrollable.  No organisation will take that on.

That does not mean that you cannot do some long range shooting on public land for practise.  If you are entitled to have a firearm on said land, you are entitled to shoot it on said land.

As soon as it comes an issue however, and it has in this location, it is very likely that DOC will regulate that sort activity out of its granted hunting permits that it provides.  Then it will be unlawful.

The solution is to stop being morons.  Best of luck with solving that problem.

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## Sidney

And to be frank the Lake Lyndon location is not suitable due to the proximately to many other users...  If people can hear repeated rifle shots they will get upset.  Full stop.

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## A330driver

Quote......”The solution is to stop being morons. Best of luck with solving that problem.”

hehehehe lol......

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## sightpicture

Not being anywhere near the area in question - I have tried in a few places up north to shoot on DOC-administered public land (excuse me be a bit stroppy but I do not wish to call it 'DOC land' - it's citizens' land). 

I told the truth - I first wanted to practice again before I went hunting (and nowhere near the road and only at a place I'd looked at with a cliff backstop and good line-of-sight viz - and was issued a permit; but for hunting only and steadfastly told it was to hunt, no practising / sighting allowed. (The nearest range where I was living was 90 minutes' away). OK then. Can't win with City Hall. I said thanks v much and surrendered the permit.  

My slight beef is - DOC spends gazillions (OK, millions) catering to people both locals and furriners who use our lands for purposes DOC likes. Just last year DOC spent a really large sum (they will not say how much) - and not counting evacs off the mountain - just cleaning up after those 125,000 visitors who walk / stagger / crawl the Tongariro Alpine Crossing; 60% of whom are foreign tourists. They hoover up tax money for that, but not for "non-approved" activity on public land by actual taxpayers.

Ah well - mods, thanks for permitting the rant - and if I overstepped, hit delete :-)

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## PJC

Having had a bit of experience with the new Health and Safety at Work Act 2015, I would think that the chance of getting a designated long range shooting area on doc land that has not gone through the same formal process as other shooting ranges is about zero.  It wouldnt matter if it was a days walk off the road (which would defeat the purpose anyway anyway).

Some people are shooting big caliber rifles at Lake Lyndon, there was a chunkie section of I beam last time I was there with a big hole in the web, I dont think that was made with a 308.  Im not complaining about people shooting 50 cal, but if they miss the stop at the back they go a long way

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## Pengy

> It cannot happen on an officially sanctioned basis.... to much risk is uncontrollable.  No organisation will take that on.
> 
> That does not mean that you cannot do some long range shooting on public land for practise.  If you are entitled to have a firearm on said land, you are entitled to shoot it on said land.
> 
> As soon as it comes an issue however, and it has in this location, it is very likely that DOC will regulate that sort activity out of its granted hunting permits that it provides.  Then it will be unlawful.
> 
> The solution is to stop being morons.  Best of luck with solving that problem.


It is already happening on an officially sanctioned basis, albeit without the words "longrange " involved

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## Trout

I went passed Lake Lyndon one morning last yr on the way one to the Wilbaforce,About 2 ks pass the lake,there was a corner of  land by a gully.I watched 2 groups target shooting against a burnt out hill.And on the east side of the road,2 groups shooting up a river gully long range.The whole valley sounded like a war zone.I stay there on the road side for about 10 minuts and watched 2 other cars passed me.I thort this is not good viewing so close to a well used public road.
A few days later I looked up the doc maps,interesting that all shooters were on doc land.But west side shooters were to close to public road,east side shooters were about a k from road.All shooters were shooting away from the road of coarse.
Iv heard or read about target shooting in the Lyndon area, now iv seen it.I think its just abit public,when you can go to the NCDA public days for about $20 none members and shoot to 200yds safely 10 minuts drive from chch.
One hill side fire out there,one too many,let alone somebody getting accidently shot.

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## Sasquatch

I think it'll be a sad day when a law abiding FAL holder can't take their rifle and shoot some targets responsibly on public land. I've shot there before a dozen or so times over the years and often there were other shooters in the area shooting at the same time, it never bothered me. After a full day shooting we would clean up after ourselves and grab a Sheffield pie on the drive home - Good times.

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## antbb212

Does anyone know if an online DOC hunting permit is acceptable to go hunting at the Brynderwyn Hills Reserve/hunting ground??
I asked DOC today about Mangatawhiri Forest, but they said its closed to all hunting. 
I have an online northland hunting permit, so can i go to the Brynderwyn Hills Reserve/hunting ground? Or could it be closed as well?
DOC wont be open tomorrow so calling them aint really an option for a shoot tomorrow...

Cheers, Anthony.

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## Cigar

> Does anyone know if an online DOC hunting permit is acceptable to go hunting at the Brynderwyn Hills Reserve/hunting ground??
> I asked DOC today about Mangatawhiri Forest, but they said its closed to all hunting. 
> I have an online northland hunting permit, so can i go to the Brynderwyn Hills Reserve/hunting ground? Or could it be closed as well?
> DOC wont be open tomorrow so calling them aint really an option for a shoot tomorrow...
> 
> Cheers, Anthony.


According to my mapping program, the Brynderwyn scenic reserve is not in the open hunting areas, so not covered by the online permit. EDIT: tbr Brynderwyn scenic reserve is not in the open hunting areas, but Bryderwyn Hills scenic reserve is, so should be okay.

Waipu gorge and Mareretu forests are in the open hunting areas if they are options.

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## antbb212

> According to my mapping program, the Brynderwyn scenic reserve is not in the open hunting areas, so not covered by the online permit. EDIT: tbr Brynderwyn scenic reserve is not in the open hunting areas, but Bryderwyn Hills scenic reserve is, so should be okay.
> 
> Waipu gorge and Mareretu forests are in the open hunting areas if they are options.


awesome!! thank you so much!! i was so close to calling tomorrow off! thanks man!
Would you recommend any specifically??

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## cambo

Another fire up at Lyndon caused by someone using tracers

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## R93

> Another fire up at Lyndon caused by someone using tracers


I just drove thru there the day before yesterday. Was staying at Colleridge.

I looked for evidence of all this target shooting all be it from the road and didn't notice anything obvious apart form some well used vehicle tracks.
It did look bloody dry. 

How many kinds of stupid do you have to be to use tracer in there? 

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## outdoorlad

> Another fire up at Lyndon caused by someone using tracers


FFS

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## Husky1600

And how do we know there was a fire caused by tracers? Are we just assuming that the piece in the paper where the "fire officer" said it "may" have been caused by tracers, is actual fact. Just as easily may NOT have been caused by tracers. Truth is at this point they dont know what caused it.

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## Mackattack

And fences being put up now to stop 4wd , can only assume hoping for an added effect of stoping the target shooting.disapointing but not surprised

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## DBD

> And fences being put up now to stop 4wd , can only assume hoping for an added effect of stoping the target shooting.disapointing but not surprised


The fencing is there because the road washed away with the recent flooding. The road is currently closed for repairs.

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## averageoutdoorsman

Just to revive this, the time has come and Doc are fencing the area at lake lyndon off, trailer loads of rubbish, 4wding were some main reasons but also target shooters leaving rubbish and targets everywhere. Typical case of a few people ruining it for everyone else. Doc are in talks with the NZDA about potential new areas. Could there be a possible solution of fencing off designated areas at lake Lyndon for shooting with warning signs? I doubt it as it gives liability to Doc if anything goes wrong, the same reason private landholders won't allow it. 
If enough people got behind a petition to set up a 'public' range area off lake Lyndon road does anyone think anything would come from it? could be worth a try.

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## Hunteast

A couple of years ago when i used the Lyndon site before closure were a few tv's & other home made targets littering the target area. Plus hundreds if not more spent cartridge's of the centre fire type. It appears more than just a few spoiling the area for others? So that leaves the Canterbury NZDA and hand loaders range which have rules and range officers to keep things in check - we don't have rubbish left on our ranges or start careless fires. Must have been a coincidence that 'tracer' fire at Lyndon next to the target area? Maybe trampers were having a cook up, yeah nah..

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## distant stalker

There's a walking track that runs along the skyline of the face most people use and have seen trampers come down that face while people were wanting to shoot, this was on the one trip I have been there with the intention of shooting and didn't shoot because didn't feel comfortable having seen that. A place with signage and fences would be great and would give some confidence that people wouldn't walk into firing zone

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## scottrods

I drove the lyndon to coleridge road last sat. There were 3x trucks further along "shooting", one with a white target clearly positioned on the ground.
Last time Kingsley was at the NZDa meeting, he said he'd take truck numbers and report to the cops, as sighting a rifle in on public land does not equate to the conditions on the hunting permit.

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## Sasquatch

> I drove the lyndon to coleridge road last sat. There were 3x trucks further along "shooting", one with a white target clearly positioned on the ground.
> Last time Kingsley was at the NZDa meeting, he said he'd take truck numbers and report to the cops, as sighting a rifle in on public land does not equate to the conditions on the hunting permit.


From conversations with the guy not that long ago, this seems vastly contradictory. I know for a fact the guy sights his own rifle in on "public land"

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## Russian 22.

> I drove the lyndon to coleridge road last sat. There were 3x trucks further along "shooting", one with a white target clearly positioned on the ground.
> Last time Kingsley was at the NZDa meeting, he said he'd take truck numbers and report to the cops, as sighting a rifle in on public land does not equate to the conditions on the hunting permit.


Peak fudd.

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## Tedz50

There is a church run Lodge at Lake Lyndon and a popular walking track leaves the lodge skirts along the ridge line above these 'ranges' and drops down a gully people like to shoot up.There is quite a curve in this gully and trampers can not be seen approaching until they are behind the targets.This whole area is a disaster waiting to happen,and there is a possibility of a disaster which will not end well.

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## Bagheera

Setting up and running a range requires planning and paperwork.  Requirements are set out in an old document, the NZ Police Firearms Range Manual.  Also, Councils have veto rights in some way due to powers around resource consents and it's quite costly to even apply.  Indeed, eternal vigilance is the price of retaining even formal established ranges like the NZDA ones.  So, it's unlikely that DoC would take on a project like providing a free public range.  Half a dozen discreet shots to check your zero in a safe place while you're out hunting - OK.  Just don't annoy, endanger or frighten.

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