# Outdoors > Other outdoors, sports, huts and tracks >  First aid kit pics

## 223nut

Ok folks

Taking a move on the 10 essentials thread recently, let's see ya first aid kit. I'm a shocker for carrying to much and being a vollie and in a family with a physio and a doctor it's a given I have an operating room on my back. 

Also gives a thread for novelty ideas on what to take, duct tape, paracord and a needle...


Small one I Carry in my day bag 

Big sucker that can go on a pack if it really has to but lives in a vehicle!!


Do people want a list as I made one up just for the hell of it, 42 items in the big one... 

Key thing with first aid is to practise and only use this you are trained/ competent with. When was the last time you took a pulse or a BP reading? Few thing I'm missing; blood glucose monitor, op airways, pen and paper/ pre laid out form (St John first responders form that I'd applicable to your situation.

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## 223nut

Well hey I'm bored and want a copy of the list somewhere....

In no particular order other than the way they came out of the bag:
Gloves, scissors, glasses (magnifying buggers to get that annoying splinter), lightship (came with the bag... Usually have a torch on me, non-governmental gauze, celox syringe, stethoscope, blood pressure cuff, Sam splint (want the ones you run under water and it sets the fibreglass for an instant cast, anyone got a source??), panadol, neurofen, raxene antihistamines, celox granules, bandaids (had a few kits in the past without them...), more dressings, condoms, eyedrops, splinter needles (awesome tool, better than the old hypodermic I had), betadine ointment, cayenne (nitrogen spray if you have it), epi-pen (personally anaphylactic to bee stings), hand sanitiser, thermal blankets, trauma wound dressing (God I hope I don't have to use this or the tourniquet), triangle bandages (kind of useless if you have clothes but they look cool for a kid wih a sprained wrist), crystaderm, stingose (really rate this stuff), thermometer, penlight for eyes (don't use your maxtorch), small scissors (leatherman), alcohol/iodine wipes, irrigation (not our your paddock, couple of vials with pressure nozzles to clean the gravel rash off), tweezers, tape (you pick the type, good stuff to make butterfly closures), roller bandages, needle and thread (in sterile dressing, really old), large dressings, wet wipes, lollies/glucose.

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## Maca49

Got condoms??

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## 223nut

> Got condoms??


Sterile waterproof dressing over any appendage.... Think fingers that need to stay dry with a couple of butterfly's whilst getting home

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## Tombi

I'm in the same boat as NIMROD, I'm no doctor and no Rambo. My skill extends to wrapping bandage round a wound to stop clarit coming out of me.

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## 223nut

> I'm in the same boat as NIMROD, I'm no doctor and no Rambo. My skill extends to wrapping bandage round a wound to stop clarit coming out of me.


That sums up a fair few situations! Done quite a few different first aid courses over the years so bit of a mish-mash of skills. 

Would suggest going and doing the workplace first aid course, most employers require it these days

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## Ryan_Songhurst

Far out, I carry this, and if I can't fix it with this then I'm using my plb....

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## planenutz

One item I've recently become a BIG fan of is the "COMPEED" blister plasters. These are obviously designed to help heal or prevent blisters but I've found an additional use for them - burns.

On a trip to Stewart Island a few months back my son was pouring a brew when the POS billy-holder slipped off, tipping boiling water over his hand. Normally I take paraffin gauze with me but I'd run out and nothing in the First Aid Kit was going to do the job. I needed something that would cover and seal the burn. I reasoned that the COMPEED plasters were designed for blisters and my son's hand had blistered up over a large area so I figured the COMPEED would act in the same way on his burn as they would on a blister. I applied the largest plaster in the pack and crossed my fingers. Five days later the dressing fell off and the affected area was tender, but remarkably well healed. The results were outstanding.

I'm no doctor or medical scientist but further research online indicated these plasters (and there are different brands using the same technology) react with the fluids in the wound. The fluids cause a gel to be released which effectively seals off the wound to external air/dirt/germs and further aggravation. The plaster is designed to remain on the wound for several days, after which it naturally falls off. For burns, this seems to be an ideal solution. The fluids are taken care of by the plaster so you don't get that weeping which normally sticks to your dressings. The wound is sealed and healing promoted. It was interesting to note that others on the internet had also used these on burns with good results.

Anyhow, I now carry a COMPEED Blister Pack in my first aid kit and have them on hand around the house etc. I haven't tested them on blisters yet, but can attest to their value on burns.

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## 223nut

@planenutz great wee tip, have some somewhere in a plastic box but might just have to dig them out and use one. (have to get a bigger bag soon.... Camelback motherload  :O O: )

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## kotuku

.223good kit .ive got one in the truck complete with bloodpressure machine but thne again being a registered nurse its just me being anal!bloodglucose kit -bloody good idea.

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## Dorkus

I used to carry an Israeli bandage (with wound pad and compression bar designed for battlefield trauma) and a foil pack full of tramadol, codeine and ibuprofen. My thinking was simple - If I break something then take the pills and use PLB, If there's lots of blood coming out use the bandage, take the pills and use PLB. Anything else a combination of electrical tape and pills should be ok until I can walk out, if for any reason I can't walk out then use PLB. Job done.
Not sure where my bandage got to (I took it out because it takes up extra space) and I think I put my foil pack of drugs somewhere but now can't find that either - Note to self - Must find pills and return to day pack...

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## Chilli_Dog

I was just thinking about this (as well as what get for a day pack that I can use for work too). One thing I find very handy for cuts is a tube of super glue, also good insulation tape (3m or similar) and a bit of gauze makes a much better sticking plaster than a sticking plaster.

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> I used to carry an Israeli bandage (with wound pad and compression bar designed for battlefield trauma) and a foil pack full of tramadol, codeine and ibuprofen. My thinking was simple - If I break something then take the pills and use PLB, If there's lots of blood coming out use the bandage, take the pills and use PLB. Anything else a combination of electrical tape and pills should be ok until I can walk out, if for any reason I can't walk out then use PLB. Job done.
> Not sure where my bandage got to (I took it out because it takes up extra space) and I think I put my foil pack of drugs somewhere but now can't find that either - Note to self - Must find pills and return to day pack...


I'm not sure I would want to take Tramadol in a situation where I'm relying on my own wit. Last time they put me on them when I came out of knee surgery let's just say I was very comfortably numb

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## Dorkus

That's the plan.  Comfortably numb while I wait for the chopper ride home

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## Ryan_Songhurst

> That's the plan.  Comfortably numb while I wait for the chopper ride home
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


You mean magic carpet ride !

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## BruceY

After 32 years SAR training....2 items....condoms (non-lubricated if possible) Uses: protecting wounds on hands, feet, toes & digits, great ties / tourniquets, and last ( definitely not used ones ) put one inside a sock to get water from a stream.....they reallllllyyy stretch!
Item 2: Tampons, small, light, low volume BUT brilliant for stopping/staunching blood from open wounds...

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## 223nut

> After 32 years SAR training....2 items....condoms (non-lubricated if possible) Uses: protecting wounds on hands, feet, toes & digits, great ties / tourniquets, and last ( definitely not used ones ) put one inside a sock to get water from a stream.....they reallllllyyy stretch!
> Item 2: Tampons, small, light, low volume BUT brilliant for stopping/staunching blood from open wounds...


See someone else has discovered the uses of condoms! Tampons are a good point, have had them in kits in the past

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## Savage1

CAT tourniquet, Israeli Bandage, Chest seal, celox and some wound packer. Yet to get a PLB but will do. Takes up very little room and can deal with most trauma until serious help arrives.

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## 223nut

@Savage1 what's the celox like to use? Yet to need mine...  :Redbullsmiley:

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## Savage1

Never used it in a real life situation so don't know. Used the Israeli Bandages with it infused and it worked really well, would never stop a serious arterial bleed though.

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## smidey

Cat is a serious piece of kit, hope you won't need that. 

Sent from my workbench

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## Bryan

Where is the best place to get hold of some celox? Would be good to have a few sachets in my kit.

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## Savage1

> Where is the best place to get hold of some celox? Would be good to have a few sachets in my kit.


Trademe has them, you can get it in an syringe type applicator which would be far better for getting it down into a wound I think, epecially if self applicating.

If you're going to  carry a CAT then make sure you practice with it and get familiar with it including one handed application, if you never practice then when you need it you'll be dead by the time you get it on. I didn't realise how much I was lacking until I was put through some high pressure scenario.

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## 223nut

Brought my celox from a guy off trade me operating out of Dunedin / taeri can't remember his name, hogs and dogs or something

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## Koshogi

A gauze impregnated with a hemostatic agent, such as QuikClot Combat Guage,  is much easier to apply then a powder or granule.

Be cautious about buying both CATs and hemostatic agents online as there are several companies making counterfeit products.

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## 223nut

> A gauze impregnated with a hemostatic agent, such as QuikClot Combat Guage,  is much easier to apply then a powder or granule.
> 
> Be cautious about buying both CATs and hemostatic agents online as there are several companies making counterfeit products.


Can you suggest a reliable source for such gauze? Have an Israeli bandage that's been vacuum packed and bloody expensive but only the one

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## Koshogi

> Can you suggest a reliable source for such gauze? Have an Israeli bandage that's been vacuum packed and bloody expensive but only the one


http://tacmedaustralia.com.au/

Check out their blog too. They have some first class contributers, including Dan Pronk, a former AUS SOF Doctor with multiple combat deployments.
https://sofrep.com/author/dantacmed/

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## linhdz15

If there's lots of blood coming out use the bandage, take the pills and use PLB. Anything else a combination of electrical tape and pills should be ok until I can walk out, if for any reason I can't walk out then use PLB. Job done.

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## Solo

It might look a bit heavy at first, but it's actually self-propelled. Can be a bit of a pain in tight bush, though.

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## Sideshow

Right time to raid the wife's hand back as she has loads of those Compeed things....just better not get caught  :Thumbsup: 

On a more serious note I whatched a mate of mine use his eppy pen :Sick:  he's allergic to deer hair and had a bad reaction while gutting one. Got the bloody thing round the wrong way and injected it into his hand instead :XD:  still worked thank god! Laughed about it after, but not very funny to start with.

Sanitary pads are also good for stopping larger cuts. Used these a bit with duck tape to hold them in place. African roads you come across a lot of TA's, they hold back a good deal of blood and the duck tape helps with the pressure that you need to aplie, especially if you need to help multiple victims.
Wasn't around for when the duck tape was pulled off. But meet up with a few that are still running around :Have A Nice Day:

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## 223nut

Allergic to deer hair and he's hunting.... My epi has a pointy end and a flat end, also says 'needle this end' easy enough to do if your panicking though

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## Scouser

Some great tips on here, i carry an Israeli bandage, pain killers, and that spray on skin stuff (stops the bleeding on small cuts) there all for self propelled walk out....PLB if im a hospital case!!!!!!

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## Sideshow

> Allergic to deer hair and he's hunting.... My epi has a pointy end and a flat end, also says 'needle this end' easy enough to do if your panicking though


Year deer hair :Wtfsmilie:  the look on his face when he injected himself I was like what what and he then held up his thumb  :XD: 

Definitely panicked but it still worked although his thumb was out of action for a week :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## 223nut

Know of a nurse that was giving a lady a suppository..... Whoops wrong hole  :Sick:  o well plenty of blood there to absorb it!

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## 223nut

Just going through my small kit and noticed the top on a saline bottles popped.... No small ones left so in with a big sucker

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## sako75

Had to replace some out of date items recently. One was a bag of IV Glucose so out with the knife. Tasted ok and not too sweet

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## JasonW

I thought it was all over when I slipped in a pile of deadfall in forestry and my lower torso landed on a sharp broken off branch. I laid there frozen for about 5 or 10 seconds with the sharp branch sticking up burnt into my vision thinking oh f@#$! Repeatedly then moved a bit and did a pushup, oh no pain must be in shock, got up and yeah... branch was so rotten it turned to dust under me. But large israeli bandage is now in the pack as Ill take that as fair warning! 

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## 223nut

> I thought it was all over when I slipped in a pile of deadfall in forestry and my lower torso landed on a sharp broken off branch. I laid there frozen for about 5 or 10 seconds with the sharp branch sticking up burnt into my vision thinking oh f@#$! Repeatedly then moved a bit and did a pushup, oh no pain must be in shock, got up and yeah... branch was so rotten it turned to dust under me. But large israeli bandage is now in the pack as Ill take that as fair warning! 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk


Have one in the car bag but not in my tramping one, bandana with some celox on it and a bit of ducttape. It's going to get infected but hey least I keep a bit more of my blood, I'm rather partial to it

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## JasonW

This is on my belt, its a gamegear dog kit but added and subtracted some stuff to suit both of us. 

The big grey thing is the israeli bandage thay goes in pack. Insulation tape is in different pouch on belt. 



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## 223nut

@JasonW brought a similar one from ridgeline I think wih the skin stapler for pig dogs... Hmmm had forgotten about pooch for my next trip first aid wise  :O O:  will have to go through it all again.

Some good things in there, is that strapping tape at the top above scissors?

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## JasonW

> @JasonW brought a similar one from ridgeline I think wih the skin stapler for pig dogs... Hmmm had forgotten about pooch for my next trip first aid wise  will have to go through it all again


Good for cuts on the fingers and hands on yourself too Id say, the skin around a fresh wound is numb for a while. 

I did have and will replace a neoprene bootie for the dogs paw also. 

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## 223nut

> . 
> 
> I did have and will replace a neoprene bootie for the dogs paw also. 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk


Had a few but lost them moving house, you got a source? Had some really nice leather ones

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## JasonW

> Had a few but lost them moving house, you got a source? Had some really nice leather ones


I will probally get one of these, the others were just a cheap set of 4 he chewed through 1 per day when he split a pad open after I taped them on. 

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## JasonW

> I will probally get one of these, the others were just a cheap set of 4 he chewed through 1 per day when he split a pad open after I taped them on. 
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk


https://www.furtherfaster.co.nz/coll...ex-single-2016

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## 223nut

@DrM@wildernessEMC

Might be some interesting stuff here for you... My big kit has grown even more since this thread  :O O:

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## kukuwai

Not a bad option in areas with high numbers of wasps or if travelling with people who have allergies.

Cheaper than an epi pen and 3x the dose.
Should be available at most chemists   

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## 223nut

@kukuwai have used needle and vials before and much prefer the Epipen. Drawing up medications is fine in a controlled environment with no pressure, if I'm reacting I want adrenaline NOW. 

Epipen is also designed to be idiot proof, drawing medications and swapping needles etc is not something our average Joe blogs should be doing.

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## kukuwai

> @kukuwai have used needle and vials before and much prefer the Epipen. Drawing up medications is fine in a controlled environment with no pressure, if I'm reacting I want adrenaline NOW


Fair enough. Personal preference i guess 

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## Marty Henry

Maybe a bit of a hijack but its Scary as all shit when someone allergic gets stung. Tramping in the coromandels years age we stood in a wasp nest. Both take off at high speed downhill after were clear Peter starts stuttering about stings and adrenaline while going into shock.
I rummage his pack and find an ampule and syringe in a plastic tube no instructions, hes no help now, I shatter the ampule opening it shit, it broke over a poncho, so shaking like a leaf I suck up all i can and jab it in his leg over a couple of goes. 
Must have done ok. We still tramp together but now he carries an epipen, and Ive got one in my kit even though unaffected.
How you would handle the syringe and ampule on your own under pressure beats me.

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## gonetropo

a roll of insulation tape.
i am serious. you can use it to secure gauze, bandages and is better at holding on in wet environments. van be used to hold splints/supports in place. and in general bloody handy to have if your 4wd etc busts a radiator hose etc. costs bugger all, lasts forever if you keep it in the cool and away from too much sunlight

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## Beaker

> a roll of insulation tape.
> i am serious. you can use it to secure gauze, bandages and is better at holding on in wet environments. van be used to hold splints/supports in place. and in general bloody handy to have if your 4wd etc busts a radiator hose etc. costs bugger all, lasts forever if you keep it in the cool and away from too much sunlight


It's great stuff.
Only thing though, is if your going to put it right around (and that is the only way it will work anyway) a finger or arm etc... don't just roll the roll around it. You need to pull off 300-400mm and let it contract for a couple of seconds. Then gently wrap around. If you dont, it tightens up on your finger, to the point of cutting off blood supply.

Also helpful to fold over the last bit on its self - makes it easier to get off.....

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## 223nut

Now that's a blood handy hint about it shrinking cheers Beaker

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## planenutz

> Maybe a bit of a hijack but its Scary as all shit when someone allergic gets stung. Tramping in the coromandels years age we stood in a wasp nest....


Did the same in the Kaimai's once, I kicked the nest open and my mate was following. We were in a huge stand of supplejack and had nowhere to run... so we just froze. It was the hardest thing to do - remain frozen while dozens of wasps buzz around you looking for revenge. Thankfully we were well covered and not in shorts and t-shirts. Mate got one hit on the knee but aside from that we got away with it. Standing still for 15 minutes wasn't much fun but the alternative wasn't worth considering.

I hate those bastard wasps. Miserable little fuckers.

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## Sonicjoe

> After 32 years SAR training....2 items....condoms (non-lubricated if possible) Uses: protecting wounds on hands, feet, toes & digits, great ties / tourniquets, and last ( definitely not used ones ) put one inside a sock to get water from a stream.....they reallllllyyy stretch!
> Item 2: Tampons, small, light, low volume BUT brilliant for stopping/staunching blood from open wounds...


Item 2 is a pretty classic misconception, some good advice on this page:
Hemorrhage Control – What Aunt Flow Didn’t Know | Private Bloggins

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## scotty

a couple of things not mentioned(or i didnt see them) i have added ......little bottle of the spray hand sanitizer, awesome when you get nailed by ongaonga takes away the sting temporary relief anyway just keep applying it as needed .  quickeze, found out very handy when you run out of food cos the guy your overdue with brought nothing and you had to share your rations, takes away the hunger pains inner tube which most use to start a fire can also be used as a tournequet....eye drops for when you get nailed by bush lawyer.... eyes are very important in the bush.

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## Munsey

> Not a bad option in areas with high numbers of wasps or if travelling with people who have allergies.
> 
> Cheaper than an epi pen and 3x the dose.
> Should be available at most chemists   
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Whats that kit cost if you don't mind me asking ? . Im told by the Tutor at my First aid course that Epi pens are around $200 and the US patent holder is putting the cost up 300 % (his exact words ) . I hope he's wrong

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## 223nut

@Munsey my last round of Epipen were $130, they are only 300mg (standard dose is 500 so depending on the person you need two) (there are ways to get onto them than one dose.... YouTube) think in the us they are 300+.

Guess I should get some more if they are going up (only last for a year)

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## 223nut

@Munsey my last round of Epipen were $130, they are only 300mg (standard dose is 500 so depending on the person you need two) (there are ways to get more out them than one dose.... YouTube) think in the us they are 300+.

Guess I should get some more if they are going up (only last for a year)

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## Tommy

> a couple of things not mentioned(or i didnt see them) i have added ......little bottle of the spray hand sanitizer, awesome when you get nailed by ongaonga takes away the sting temporary relief anyway just keep applying it as needed .  quickeze, found out very handy when you run out of food cos the guy your overdue with brought nothing and you had to share your rations, takes away the hunger pains inner tube which most use to start a fire can also be used as a tournequet....eye drops for when you get nailed by bush lawyer.... eyes are very important in the bush.


I like those eye wash saline vials where you rip the top off and the squirty top allows you to wash all the shit out (use em from time to time at work). If you can't see you're less able to sort yourself out.

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## kukuwai

> Whats that kit cost if you don't mind me asking ? . Im told by the Tutor at my First aid course that Epi pens are around $200 and the US patent holder is putting the cost up 300 % (his exact words ) . I hope he's wrong


My boss brought them so not exactly sure but they were definitely under $50. We just did an anaphylaxis course at work and the tutor said the ampoule alone is about $30.

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## Savage1

> My boss brought them so not exactly sure but they were definitely under $50. We just did an anaphylaxis course at work and the tutor said the ampoule alone is about $30.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


One shot with an epipen is rarely enough, when it wears off you're back in the same position again so it's well worth taking in some ampules and syringe as well to last until help can arrive or you manage to get out.

You can get ampules of adrenaline on prescription for $5 according to my pharmacist wife.

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## res

good thread

Ill be needing to build up a new kit in a few weeks and this has given me some things to think about rather than just replicating my admitadly old school kit

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## 223nut

> this has given me some things to think about


That's the whole idea of the forum I guess  :Thumbsup: 
 @SAVAGE have a look on YouTube, can get an extra 4-5 300mg doses, doeinvolve cutting through the hard outer plastic, inside is a plunger wih a rubber stopper.... Will let you figure the rest out as its not something that should be 'advised' about

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## Billy02

Never had a fir aid kit with me, now looking at tall this i should start collecting.

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## terryf

I somehow missed this thread and I'm a serious FA junkie hoarder  :Grin: 

Just two things I want to add - firstly, skip the tampons, they cause more issues than they solve. Use a proper trauma dressing.
Second, if you're tramping, keep it to the minimum of what you are capable of using and might need. If you're with a regular buddy, split the kit between you and make sure at least one of you knows more than just how to apply a band aid. I have seen way to many guys lug everything short of an ambulance into the bush and when it goes south, they don't have a clue how to use 90% of their kit.

Surprised nobody has mentioned superglue??

And where are the burn dressings @223nut ?

One thing I also carry is cable ties. Its extreme but if the bleeding doesn't stop, its life over limb - works well for shotgun AD's to the ankle or when you step on a landmine.

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## 223nut

Snaplock bags work as a burn dressing, just need to seal out the air from the nerve endings, gladwrap is ideal but Snaplock bags have others uses

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## Cordite

Superglue great for sealing superficial abrasions and it can be used to appose split skin edges.

Not easy to use superglue for closing split wounds - the wound sides need to be together, and the glue spread over the top of the skin (not in between the skin edges or it will prevents the skin edges growing together).  Better to bandage a split wound, since unless you have been able to clean it thoroughly you may trap infection inside it by stitching/gluing.  If it is kept clean your doctor CAN suture it at leisure, including more than 24hours after the injury, though some are reluctant to do so.

3M Micropore tape (or Pam's substitute), great for blisters or skin about to blister.  It gives you an extra layer of armour.

Combat Action Tourniquets are frankly painful to apply properly, it is not because of them shutting down the blood supply (well, that too) but because they are very narrow and so have to be tighter around the limb to achieve compression of the artery.  If you can get hold of a Blood Pressure cuff with an inflator, it will do the same job but with a lot less pain.  But direct pressure and elevation of the bleeding limb is the go-to-first option.

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## csmiffy

> 3M Micropore tape (or Pam's substitute), great for blisters or skin about to blister.  It gives you an extra layer of armour.


Always have a roll of insulation tape handy. Good for the small stuff and pretty much the only thing I used on myself especially whenI was underground. Always instantly handy.
Apparently there is a very mild antibiotic property in the glue (as told to me by an electrician mind you) but I don't care.

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## Solo

> Combat Action Tourniquets are frankly painful to apply properly, it is not because of them shutting down the blood supply (well, that too) but because they are very narrow and so have to be tighter around the limb to achieve compression of the artery.  If you can get hold of a Blood Pressure cuff with an inflator, it will do the same job but with a lot less pain.  But direct pressure and elevation of the bleeding limb is the go-to-first option.


I've never used a BP cuff as a tourniquet, but having taken as many blood pressures as I have with them, I can tell you that it's really common for them to slowly leak air even when the nut is fully tightened. CATs are a much lower maintenance solution, and more idiot-proof. I think generally if you're bleeding enough to warrant one, the pain involved with a CAT is neither here nor there.

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## Sonicjoe

> I've never used a BP cuff as a tourniquet, but having taken as many blood pressures as I have with them, I can tell you that it's really common for them to slowly leak air even when the nut is fully tightened. CATs are a much lower maintenance solution, and more idiot-proof. I think generally if you're bleeding enough to warrant one, the pain involved with a CAT is neither here nor there.


I typed out a very similar reply to this a few times but deleted it.  
I agree completely, use something that is designed for the job, and learn how to use one correctly. Sure, a pneumatic tourniquet such as the ones used in a hospital may be okay, but your normal BP cuff is bound to cause problems. Plus, who wants to carry a BP cuff around the bush???

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## Cordite

@Solo




> I've never used a BP cuff as a tourniquet, but having taken as many blood pressures as I have with them, I can tell you that it's really common for them to slowly leak air even when the nut is fully tightened. CATs are a much lower maintenance solution, and more idiot-proof. I think generally if you're bleeding enough to warrant one, the pain involved with a CAT is neither here nor there.


    @Solo

You're right about the slow leak.  I've come across this in many manual tourniquets, I've wondered if some makers do it on on purpose for obvious reasons, e.g. nurse gets called away for emergency while doing a BP on unconscious person.  O-:

Forgot the other reason for a wider cuff, which is concern over soft tissue crush damage, esp. to nerves.  Not sure if that is just because of using a narrow tourniquet or if it is from applying it unduly tight.  It doesn't require much pressure to stop bleeding if someone already is hypotensive from blood loss.

The multi utility duct tape mentioned above can also be used, even a length of rope - just apply it fairly tight in successive overlapping or adjacent turns, until bleeding stops.




> I typed out a very similar reply to this a few times but deleted it.  
> I agree completely, use something that is designed for the job, and learn how to use one correctly. Sure, a pneumatic tourniquet such as the ones used in a hospital may be okay, but your normal BP cuff is bound to cause problems. Plus, who wants to carry a BP cuff around the bush???


   @Sonicjoe

The BP cuff _is_ of course a tourniquet.  It works by stopping arterial blood flow into a limb by applying even pressure round a limb, compressing arteries against bones.  As for the weight problem, yes, good reason to stick to CAT and pack that gaffer tape.  In my case the BP cuff lives in my big medical carry kit along with Israeli bandages etc. but I don't have a CAT.

Speaking of inflatable tourniquets... THESE babies are a promising development with lifesaving potential for gunshot injuries.  Who would not carry one of these in the bush if they owned one?



Click on image for Stars and Stripes "Gamechanger" article.  Models used for this image, but sorry for showing all that blood.

I could see Solo ending up routinely carrying one in his ambulance, though some might argue it is only helpful for injuries that people die off before ambulances can get to them.  In essence it's large/thigh BP cuff glued inside the front of a boxing champ's belt and on inflation delivers pressure in the umbilical area, compressing the descending aorta against the spine.

Academic paper in PDF form which interestingly mentions "forgotten" techniques of resting knee with almost full body weight on umbilical area of victims to arrest pelvic bleeds such as in obstetric emergencies, or if an entire lower limb or both are pulled off or a gunshot is above the limb and a CAT has no place to go.  The aortic tourniquet can also be applied to press into the shoulder socket area if entire upper limb is pulled/shot off and CAT/Israeli won't do.

Video Warning! Some actual bleeding included, don't click if you are squeamish.



Quiz: Who can tell why the Medic's two stars n stripes shoulder badges are mirror imaged?

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## terryf

Stars always forwards

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## Solo

> I could see Solo ending up routinely carrying one in his ambulance, though some might argue it is only helpful for injuries that people die off before ambulances can get to them.


I've actually seen people advocate junctional tourniquets for cardiac arrest. Essentially, disconnecting the legs gives you a smaller circuit to work with during CPR.

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## Cordite

> I've actually seen people advocate junctional tourniquets for cardiac arrest. Essentially, disconnecting the legs gives you a smaller circuit to work with during CPR.


 @Solo

That's true genius - as clever as it is simple.  I wonder how much these things cost.

Problem might be in a really obese person where the abdominal fat is already compressing the lungs, if adding external abdominal pressure to that one would need to have the victim intubated or else no effective 'P' in CPR.  Elevating the lower limbs could achieve some of the same effect, but not with such a clear-cut effect.

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## terryf

> @Solo
> 
> That's true genius - as clever as it is simple.  I wonder how much these things cost.
> 
> Problem might be in a really obese person where the abdominal fat is already compressing the lungs, if adding external abdominal pressure to that one would need to have the victim intubated or else no effective 'P' in CPR.  Elevating the lower limbs could achieve some of the same effect, but not with such a clear-cut effect.


I think we are moving away from first aid kit and onto medic kit now - huge difference between the two!

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## 223nut

> I think we are moving away from first aid kit and onto medic kit now - huge difference between the two!


Do we need a new thread....

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## terryf

> Do we need a new thread....


haha, quite possibly  :Grin:

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## terryf

This is my home kit. It has a bit more than just FA in it but its all in one place which means I dont have to look for it when I need it.



I have the typical car kit in each of the cars and another portable kit with a bit more for day trips with the kids.

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## Sonicjoe

@Cordite

Decided not to quote your large post to save everyone scrolling past it, hope you don't mind..  Cheers, I'm well aware of how a sphygmomanometer works, and undoubtedly 300mmHg would be sufficient to provide haemostasis.  Interestingly, I see the pressures under a CAT to be around 500mmHg!!  I merely meant to suggest that for simplicity and _proven_ performance under stress for the end user that a CAT or SOFT-T Wide etc. would probably be the easiest way to go.  There is research (happy to provide articles) suggesting nerve damage resulting from both pneumatic TQ's and standard TQ's.  There is also evidence suggesting that most nerve palsy resolves within 3 hours to 3 days in these patients.  At the end of the day, I'd much rather some nerve damage (add to the current lot!!) than to bleed out from a blood pressure cuff loosening off over time.  Please don't take this as a personal attack on your experience, I am only interested in the discussion really.

Interesting on the junctional TQ.  Have either of you used one?  I have used multiple brands, including SAM and and JETT.  Good in theory, harder than you'd think to get the correct result, especially with using in the shoulder area.  It will definitely be interesting to see how the abdominal aortic TQ's go.  Packing is of course another option for some of these wounds.

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## Cordite

@Sonicjoe

never used an aortic / abdo tourniquet myself, happy to say. (-:   Yes interesting to see how they take off.  I can see them becoming standard kit a lot of places, including police AOS.

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## Cordite

Link to article on abdo tourniquet


https://www.trauma-news.com/2018/06/...lent-to-reboa/ 

a quote from it:

In addition, the Air Force group looked specifically at traumatic cardiac arrest, Dr. Croushorn said. They found that AAJT application and blood transfusion led to 83% survival compared to 17% survival with blood and CPR alone. (Military Medicine, Volume 182, September 2017)

For years we taught medics that if a patient is in cardiac arrest from bleeding out, there is no reason to do CPR, he said. Now, with the AAJT, we can actually save most of these people, and thats because of the REBOA effect of this device.

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## oneshot

super glue and an Israeli dressing, its all I have ever needed and all I carry.

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## Preacher

Super glue.  Electrical/ duct tape and gladwrap.  A few smallish gauze pads.  If I can't get it done with that and walk out under own steam then it is gonna be a helicopter ride.  

I was guilty of carrying Army medic size/style kits until I realized if its that bad you need all that stuff you are going to need evac anyway.

But if you want to carry that sort of kit....I will never think less of you.

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## Preacher

I should add if it wasn't cost prohibitive I would like to also carry an Epipen.  Not for myself but in case I came across someone who needs one.  Fucken criminal what they cost vs shelf life though.

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## kukuwai

> I should add if it wasn't cost prohibitive I would like to also carry an Epipen.  Not for myself but in case I came across someone who needs one.  Fucken criminal what they cost vs shelf life though.


Not for everyone i agree but if your into it get one of these, available from chemist.
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....d.php?p=672838

Re epipens : As i understand it ACC will replace a pen if it is used, but not if it expires 


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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## oneshot

> I should add if it wasn't cost prohibitive I would like to also carry an Epipen.  Not for myself but in case I came across someone who needs one.  Fucken criminal what they cost vs shelf life though.


No shit, Epi pens are a bloody stupid price. Maxi pads and tampons are really good for stuffing into wounds, cheap and work damn well, pretty sure the ladies will concur.

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## tiroatedson

> No shit, Epi pens are a bloody stupid price. Maxi pads and tampons are really good for stuffing into wounds, cheap and work damn well, pretty sure the ladies will concur.


Ive heard from two different sources you dont wanna do that... One St Johns workplace first aid n other trained with the army...


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## Preacher

Wouldn't use a tampon again.  Surgeons later said it was harder to get fine fibres out of wound than it was to deal with initial damage.  At the time it was the only thing available.

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