# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  Annealing questions

## Shootm

Does anyone know who I can get to anneal my cases in or around Manawatu? 
Next question is do I size before or after annealing I'm picking afterwards? 
But making sure I've got it right.

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## R93

Youre right. Best results you size after annealing. 

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## scoped

Its a diy job if you have a drill, socket set and a propane torch

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## Shootm

> Its a diy job if you have a drill, socket set and a propane torch


I haven't got a torch.
I would rather get it done by someone who knows what they are doing.  I will f#$ k it up for sure.

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## bully

Auto Annealing Machine

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## MassiveAttack

You can do it by just holding the case in your hands, put the neck in the torch and turn gently until it's too hot to hold and you can see the slight color change (have the room darkened slightly) and then dump it in a bucket of water.  Holding it in your hands guarantees that you won't over anneal it.

There are you tube videos showing you how to do it.  The other good advice is to take a few old cases and over anneal them.  Crush a few in plyers to get a feel for how soft the brass gets after a certain amount of annealing so you get a feel for how much is enough.

You are correct though, it's a whole lot simpler if someone shows you the first time.

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## outdoorlad

I think NZ Hunter offer a annealing service?

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## stug

+1for NZHunter

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## zimmer

> +1for NZHunter


Yeh I got some done a couple of years ago by Greg. Excellent job but costly, but given the time to do the quantity I supplied the price was fair. He uses the ultimate, an induction heater. Since then have bought a Bench Source annealer and have never looked back. @Shootm if you just want to do a rejuvenate of your cases I would recommend sending them to NZHunter. I anneal every loading though so buying my own annealer was the only way to go. And yes, I had already done the stand them in water technique, the hold them in hand technique, and the long socket method. I didn't try the dipping in molten lead method which a lot of forum posters recommend but obviously haven't done themselves.  :Omg:

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## dogmatix

Just gas camping cooker will do it. No need for a propane torch.
Hold it by hand, when the neck shoulder has a blued tint, then its as far as you need. 
Its around the same time as the case get too hot to hold.
Any more, then the metal is too soft.
If the case is glowing in daylight, you've pretty much stuffed the metal.
No need to douse in water after really, but it if you want to, go ahead.

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## Shootm

Thanks team. 
Might get in contact with NZ Hunter.

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## northdude

I'm looking to do the same might give it a go myself unless someone from Auckland wants a job I'll pay for the service

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## res

Didn't someone post up plans for a homemade machine a while back?

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## P38

> Didn't someone post up plans for a homemade machine a while back?


Yep

I made my own with parts from aliexpress

Works bloody good too.  :Thumbsup: 




Cheers
Pete

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## R93

How much to build me one Pete😆
 @P38

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## res

A small production run could be in order, to buy a factory one is about $600!

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## R93

Good idea. Me first😆
Only need one for bulk .223 brass to be fair.


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## P38

> How much to build me one Pete😆
>  @P38
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


 @R93

$2.4million usd  :Have A Nice Day: 

Or slightly less if you supply all the parts.  :Wink: 

Cheers
Pete

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## R93

Cheap at twice the price.😆



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## P38

> Cheap at twice the price.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


Yep 

That's what I thought.

A good keen man like you would build one of these in an afternoon.

I'll put up the link to the materials/parts list and cutting instructions

Here's the link
http://www.shootingaustralia.net/for...er-black-betty


Cheers
Pete

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## R93

> Yep 
> 
> That's what I thought.
> 
> A good keen man like you would build one of these in an afternoon.
> 
> I'll put up the link to the materials/parts list and cutting instructions
> 
> Here's the link
> ...


Cheers Pete. I have to join to see the link I think?
Gunna catch some zeds so will have a look when I get to work.


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## R93

Can't even join as it says my email is invalid. It never has been anywhere else.

Any chance you could make it visable here?

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## P38

Ok here is a ebay list and a rough drawing of the dimension's i used to build my annealer.

 First the rough measurement's. Your's can differ and you can chop n change this sizes as you like. This is a ball park guide ( well this is how i built mine ) Not i haven't put the exact hole placement in as it's determined by the first hole you drill ( main drum motor ) Leave the case feeder drum hole last to drill out.

 The rough total build cost is $140 that's everything if you have to buy all the bit's new. For me it was $60 as i had scavenged bit's off my older build.

 from Bunning's you will need:

 1x Benzomatic pencil flame torch kit
 1-2x100mm long 13mm hole eyelit bolt ( This will hold the torch. od on the brass tip is 12.7mm so the internal diamiter of the eyelit bolt must be 12.7-13mm )
 Bolt's, nut's, washer's, ( m5 ) Mine was M6 but i had to drill out the motor mount's. m5 threadded rod ( for drum motor adjustment 3x75mm )
 1-2x Small tube of Liquid nail's $2.50 each.
 Wood screw's 20mm ( I used 8g 20mm hinge screws as that's what i had in the shed. )
 35mm dress nail's ( this is to pin all the mdf till the Liq nail's set's ) or you can just buy longer screw's.
 Bunning's also sell timber bracket's cheap that at of the right size and shape's. to use as a ramp and case hopper side's etc. also they sell angle also flashing ( easy to bend )

 If i can think of anything else i'll add to the above list.

 Skip's shithouse excuse of plan's :lol:

Update: the main motor drum hole and feeder hole is 30mm ( i did say 30-35 ) 30 would be better. Mine was 35 as that was a size i had in my hole saw kit i got a few year's ago



 Ebay buying list: EDIT :facepalm: Thank you EBAY for having to make thing's difficult every time you update your site.
 So i have come up with this to hope stop the link's turning into blank white boxes. ( NOTE: you will have to search for these as i no longer can use the link's ) Below will help your search in what i used for my build. ( i have added one extra item that i found that could be used as a torch holder )










 As to the cable well i am assuming just about everyone has a old cable no longer getting used, from a old PC monitor etc you can use. ( If your like me you have a box of all sort's of cable's collected over the year's. ) The build can be as cheap as you want or as expensive as you want. It depend's on how good you are on scavenging bit's for the build. You can run it all off a battery if you wish like AusHunter. For a case stopper/holder in the drum you can use a bent up bit of coat hanger as a quick cheap option ( Like Adam did in his first build )

 I don't want to do a step buy step instruction, I'm not Ikea nor is the build that complex to warrant it. As to the coupling's and case arbor we'll it's been stated i can help out there ( If and when 10 member's get together ) I will then buy the material and make them up for thos ten ( ten is the number as that's the min length's, i can buy the stuff ) If GregT is willing to do it great even better, as he has the gear at home to do it where i have to drive out to go use it.

 Watch this vid pause it when needed to give you a rough idea  :Have A Nice Day: 


 Drum width size will be up to you: Example is for me my smallest case is .223 ( i made the dum 35mm wide ) for my largest case i made a 45mm one ) If you have larger case's i would buy the next drum size up which i think is 6" ( which is also wider )

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## R93

Legend.😆

Thanks Pete. 

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## P38

Here's some more drawings that you will need

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## P38

oh and it looks like Skips making them for sale.

So log onto the website and access the page if you want to buy rather than make one.

Cheers
Pete

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## Shootm

Good info Pete . Cheers for posting.

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## R93

+1 thanks Pete.


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## gadgetman

I might have a go at one of those. I'd use one motor linked to both shafts as you ideally want them spinning at the same speed to keep in sync. Just rotate one shaft relative to the other to get the relative timing as you want. Wouldn't need to buy anything.

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## northdude

Just be careful and watch a few YouTube clips one I watched the guy was getting the brass way to hot compared to the other clips I watched

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## zimmer

> Just be careful and watch a few YouTube clips one I watched the guy was getting the brass way to hot compared to the other clips I watched


How can u tell? Most of the YouTube ones show guys not using Tempilaq to indicate. I use a high temp (shoulder area/inside neck) and low temp (base) to set up and then once I have the timing right away I go. Personally know of a guy who overcooked the base - result, a dramatically expanded base and primer pocket and lots of gas trying to escape backwards/jammed bolt.

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## northdude

They were really glowing like in one clip where they domoed a couple of times what colour a case goes when its to hot

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## zimmer

> They were really glowing like in one clip where they domoed a couple of times what colour a case goes when its to hot


Yeh, crazy. YouTube is bloody dangerous.

I did a test to destruction on my annealer. Using 308 CAC brass I increased the heating time from 4 secs in 1/4 sec intervals up to 8 secs. The best result was at 4 1/4secs. At that point the Tempilaq was indicating all good and when viewing down the neck (room darkened) there was a momentary dull glow as the annealer indexed. You had to look hard to see it. The 8 secs ones had the neck glowing red for around 3 secs and the low temp Tempilac melted right down to the rim.
Interestingly I then did some ADI brass with similar neck thickness to the CAC and I had to change the 4 1/4 secs time by 1/4sec to get a result the same as the CAC.

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## steven

> Ok here is a ebay list and a rough drawing of the dimension's i used to build my annealer.
> 
>  8><---


A bought one is $600 odd, so a DIY for $150 ish is a great idea.

 :Thumbsup: 

Controller, well I was looking for a wee arduino project looks like Ive just found it!

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## gadgetman

@P38, roughly what size is the pan you use as a drum?

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## steven

> A bought one is $600 odd, so a DIY for $150 ish is a great idea.
> 
> 
> 
> Controller, well I was looking for a wee arduino project looks like Ive just found it!


So I'm off,



 :Thumbsup: 

The clamps are really good wee things for $20 odd from supercheap auto stores.  They are quite weak but Ok for light work like this.

un-fortunately the wife has buggered her leg so is laid up in bed and cant catch me working on the dining room table.

 :Cool:

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## P38

> @P38, roughly what size is the pan you use as a drum?


  @gadgetman

It's 5" to us children from the 60's  :Psmiley: 

Or 

127mm for you younger buggers  :Wink: 

Cheers
Pete

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## steven

Yeah where do you get the pan?

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## gadgetman

> @gadgetman
> 
> It's 5" to us children from the 60's 
> 
> Or 
> 
> 127mm for you younger buggers 
> 
> Cheers
> Pete


Thanks Pete. Though I'm from the 60's and prefer SI units.  :Grin:

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## P38

> Yeah where do you get the pan?


All electronic parts including the pan came from Aliexpress
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-inc...451318400_6150

Cheers
Pete

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## P38

> Yeah where do you get the pan?


All electronic parts including the pan came from Aliexpress
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5-inc...451318400_6150

Cheers
Pete

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## steven

Alternative cake tin mold,

NEW Round Cake Fondant Decorating Mold sugarcraft Tins Pan Bakeware Tools mold | eBay

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## Dead is better

I'm all thumbs but I still managed to get a working annealer up and running using only youtube as a guide. There's plenty of advice around on how to make these. 

One tip i'll add for free, if you're using a std blue bottle butane torch then 8 seconds in the flame should be plenty. its just on the border of not being hot enough so you only need to make sure you don't let them glow in daylight.

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## R93

Depends on brass thickness due to caliber of course.
What cal are you annealing for 8 secs?
Any pics of the finished annealer?


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## Breyt

Available at various stores :

RELOADERS, WORKSHOP INNOVATIONS online , THE GEAR LOCKER online , RUSTY DOG OUTDOORS , OUTDOORSMAN HEADQUARTERS,

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## Dead is better

> Depends on brass thickness due to caliber of course.
> What cal are you annealing for 8 secs?
> Any pics of the finished annealer?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


I'm only proud of the fact it works. An honest mate told me it looked 'agricultural' haha. Its for a 6.5x55 but I don't see why it would matter what cal as the wall thickness would determine the time in the flame? I dunno but I just tested it on crap brass and timed it till I had it working right. Had heaps of fun making it 

https://youtu.be/wMAfTUu0nX4

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## R93

Awesome.
Who cares what it looks like if it works. Cheers for the vid.

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## P38

@Dead is better

Good work that man  :Thumbsup: 

Cheers
Pete

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## steven

Neat, it works, I like the shaft - bowl mounting idea I was trying to figure out how to do it myself.  I am still waiting on parts, the 2 bowls came yesterday, (working on the principle I'll f**k one up) but none of the electronics and motors as yet   :Sad: 

The thing is a commercial unit is $600+ and for something that will be used a few times a year is just unaffordable.  So far Ive spent < $50.   :Grin:

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## scottrods

yeah, how many bags of federal brass and 4x reloads can you buy for 600 dollars?

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## gadgetman

I'm going to be really lazy and make two on the same frame (one each side) for 223 on one side and 08/06/magnum cases on the other. Make it on a tilt base to let gravity hold the brass in place on whichever side I'm working on. Toothed belt drive and one motor/drive controller to drive the lot. Plug in a 12V 2A plug pack for on/off. When you spin it round and tilt it back the work flow will simply switches left right direction.

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## scottrods

> I'm only proud of the fact it works. An honest mate told me it looked 'agricultural' haha. Its for a 6.5x55 but I don't see why it would matter what cal as the wall thickness would determine the time in the flame? I dunno but I just tested it on crap brass and timed it till I had it working right. Had heaps of fun making it 
> 
> https://youtu.be/wMAfTUu0nX4



Doesn't the diameter of the wheel holding the brass in the flame also have a factor in the time in the flame?

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## gadgetman

> Doesn't the diameter of the wheel holding the brass in the flame also have a factor in the time in the flame?


More the speed of rotation of the wheel. The diameter more controls the speed of rotation of the brass in the flame for one wheel rotation for any given motor speed.

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## Dead is better

I strongly suggest Federal is not suitable for reloading. That stuff will have you putting inexplicable dents in the necks, rounds that the bolt won't close on. As early as the 3rd firing. I promised myself to never even think about reloading that brand again. For one off firing it is up there with target ammo imo

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## veitnamcam

I have realoaded fed heaps of times. Cant count buy the stamps in the case head 

Its fine. Just soft in the head.

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## 6x47

It may not be Lapua quality but there's nothing wrong with FC for standard use.

Sure it's not been over-annealed?

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## P38

I actually prefer Federal brass over Lapua brass.

Mostly because the federal runs great in my BRNO but I've had issues closing the bolt on Lapua brass.

Cheers
Pete

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## veitnamcam

The main advantage of lapua in cals I have used it in ius the abillity to run higher presures.
But then i am no loading expert.

Or spelling expert.

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## scoped

Yous fallaz dont even need the sweet gearz to get u some anealings bey

Heres the tools of the trade, a drill, suitably sized socket and a gas torch of some sort

i dont time it but i have done a shitload of it this way so kinda know what to look for when you put the torch on it

some 45 cases of different calibres that ive just finished annealing, nek step is ultrasonic cleaner

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## Breyt

In the reloading world annealing plays a big part in preparing your cases for the next shoot. Unless you have deep pockets and buy new cases every 10 times you have used your cases. Some cases will last a little longer. The supply of brass is getting more expensive in calibers that make sense on target ranges or for the person who just like shooting in general.
To ease the cost of your shooting annealing makes absolutely sense. The down side of annealing is its very time consuming if you doing it by hand and unfortunately its inconsistent.
A well timed annealing process will be a better way to get the consistency you need to get the ultimate accuracy and life out of your cases 


Consistency = Accuracy  Time = Money.

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## ebf

> The down side of annealing is its very time consuming if you doing it by hand and unfortunately its inconsistent.
> A well timed annealing process will be a better way to get the consistency you need to get the ultimate accuracy and life out of your cases 
> 
> Consistency = Accuracy  Time = Money.


And that is exactly the major failing with "automated" annealing machines... The duration depends on a variety of factors - flame heat, wall thickness etc.

It would be an interesting experiment to compare the results of an automated machine vs a skilled person gauging colour change etc, especially on brass that has not been neck turned. In my experience doing annealling by hand (cordless drill and deep socket) is fairly quick and easy.

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## HNTMAD

But really how much xtra life are you getting?? Say a bag of brass costs lets say $200 for 100 rnds, therefore $2 each and after using them 10 times without annealing that works out to 20cents, is that such a bad thing. Seams a whole lot if work for little fain. 

Ok so I can see the target shooters rolling their eyes already,  but I am a hunter and max distance for me is 500-600m, it's s whole lot of time and pain that could be better used filling the freezer. Which is full BTW

Just my 10cents

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## zimmer

> But really how much xtra life are you getting?? Say a bag of brass costs lets say $200 for 100 rnds, therefore $2 each and after using them 10 times without annealing that works out to 20cents, is that such a bad thing. Seams a whole lot if work for little fain. 
> 
> Ok so I can see the target shooters rolling their eyes already,  but I am a hunter and max distance for me is 500-600m, it's s whole lot of time and pain that could be better used filling the freezer. Which is full BTW
> 
> Just my 10cents
> 
> Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


I just shoot targets now (too decrepit to hunt any more) and I did not roll my eyes when I read your post. For your situation, what you have outlined makes 100% sense. Annealing for target shooting and annealing for hunting loads are 2 different animals. For hunting loads there is benefit in annealing to stop necks splitting after many re-loads and to squeeze more life out of them (at which point the primer pockets may be getting a bit tired at any rate) whereas for target shooting cases are annealed every loading to maintain neck tension consistency. But like you say, for hunting purposes, after multiple loadings you are probably better to throw them and buy new.

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## ebf

Hamish, extended brass life is a side-benefit for me. The primary reason I do it is to get consistent neck tension. But I shoot a LOT and get thru my brass reasonably quickly. After about 4-5 firings I can start to feel a difference in the force required to seat projectiles. It's a bit hard to explain, but I do seating by feel - my brass is extremely carefully turned and prepped. K&N make a great little arbor press with a force gauge on it - very high on my wish list. That would be a lot more scientific way of measuring when the necks become case hardened.

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## veitnamcam

You mean work hardened  :Wink:

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## steven

> Hamish, extended brass life is a side-benefit for me. The primary reason I do it is to get consistent neck tension. But I shoot a LOT and get thru my brass reasonably quickly. After about 4-5 firings I can start to feel a difference in the force required to seat projectiles. It's a bit hard to explain, but I do seating by feel - my brass is extremely carefully turned and prepped. K&N make a great little arbor press with a force gauge on it - very high on my wish list. That would be a lot more scientific way of measuring when the necks become case hardened.


Secrets of the Houston Warehouse

Suggesting neck tension is actually pretty important, more important than generally accepted, maybe a lot more.

"Virgil continued: “You can change the powder charge slightly, and it won’t really make any difference, but if you change the bullet seating depth or the grip on the bullet, you’re going to see bad things happen fast.”"

In terms of hand v machine, generally I think its quite amazing how a person can train themselves to beat machines/tools.   On that front it seems you need to be hand seating and not buying a fancy K&N tool.  :p

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## bully

Where do you buy templiue?... (yeah poor spelling, but the heat changing paint) seems the only a curate way.... at least for me.

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## zimmer

> Where do you buy templiue?... (yeah poor spelling, but the heat changing paint) seems the only a curate way.... at least for me.


Don't know where in NZ you can get a good deal. Only found 2 outfits - one selling a temperature used in the laminates industry, and the other who had 750 but wanted huge money for it.

I got mine here Liquid Temperature Lacquers
Cannot remember if I got it sent direct or via YouShop. I think it was YouShop and surprisingly, back then, they didn't have an issue handling it.
It is available on Amazon - will not send to NZ, and Ebay - hugely expensive to ship. 
Going back to YouShop, I think I sent them the link and was surprised that they were OK with it. 
You need to get 2 temperatures and the thinner. I really thought the thinner would get the thumbs down.
It is listed as non hazardous though but the way YouShop operates.....

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## P38

I anneal my 25-20wcf cases mostly because there is no more available.

I hunted all over NZ and Oz and believe I bought up the entire stocks of both countries.

I anneal my other cases because I can.

Although I'm finding I'm becoming increasingly time poor, I'm also not too concerned about the time taken to anneal or do any reloading process for that matter as any time spent in my shed is time well spent.

Cheers
Pete

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## Breyt

> And that is exactly the major failing with "automated" annealing machines... The duration depends on a variety of factors - flame heat, wall thickness etc


You are spot on with your findings regarding variety's. However using automated machine you don't have to skilled. After you did the settings for that case ( Case length to the burner because only the neck needs to be annealed ) and using tempulaq to get the right burning time you set the timer accordingly. Lapua cases takes approx 10 sec
The machine will burn each case for the same time duration at the same distance from the flame annealing each case the same




> It would be an interesting experiment to compare the results of an automated machine vs a skilled person gauging colour change etc, especially on brass that has not been neck turned. In my experience doing annealling by hand (cordless drill and deep socket) is fairly quick and easy.


We did this a few years back and the machine didn't fail using a timer and the same burning point each time, a very skilled person did not had the same results doing it by hand..

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## ebf

> The machine will burn each case for the same time duration at the same distance from the flame annealing each case the same


Breyt, I think you misunderstand what I said. Each case IS slightly different - so having a consistent  amount of time in the flame is exactly what I do not like about machines... Let's face it, brass cases are extruded from material that is not exactly consistent.

If you have a bunch of cases that have all been neck turned extremely carefully, a machine may well get reasonably close. Take those same cases on a different day and run the machine with the same settings and you could be cooking your brass... So to be safe, each time you use the machine you need to tune the timing cycle using tempilaq or something similar.

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## veitnamcam

> Breyt, I think you misunderstand what I said. Each case IS slightly different - so having a consistent  amount of time in the flame is exactly what I do not like about machines... Let's face it, brass cases are extruded from material that is not exactly consistent.
> 
> If you have a bunch of cases that have all been neck turned extremely carefully, a machine may well get reasonably close. Take those same cases on a different day and run the machine with the same settings and you could be cooking your brass... So to be safe, each time you use the machine you need to tune the timing cycle using tempilaq or something similar.


How does the machine vari day by day? that sounds like a human trait.

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## ebf

> How does the machine vari day by day? that sounds like a human trait.


For exactly the same reasons why the same batch of ammo performs differently on different days.

Atmospherics will affect the flame temp. Change out the bottle of gas, and the flame temp may change. Open the tap on the gas bottle just a bit differently, and the flame temp could change. Have a breeze running through your workshop, the flame temp may change. Big enough to make a difference ? You tell me. 

The thing is that you use the same "skill" to set up the machine as you use to look for temp changes on the case when doing it by hand. Machines are often marketed as requiring less skill, and IMHO that is incorrect.

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## veitnamcam

Id back the machine for consistency everytime.

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## zimmer

> Id back the machine for consistency everytime.


Recently did a reasonable run of 308W. ADI and CAC brass. Set up using high and low temperature tempilaq. My annealer runs 2 torches and a 308 case takes ~ 4 1/4 secs. I needed to change the timer by 1/4 of a second when changing from ADI to CAC to get the correct tempilaq indications. Would an eyeometer be good enough to detect that?  Mmmmm.

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## ebf

Where do you get your tempilaq from Zimmer ?

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## scoped

You say there maybe inconsistency with no machine, most likely. but how long does it take for you to register the temilaq paint is up to temp and stop the timer?more to the point you need to know why case annealing is effective and in yoyr personal situation whether its beneficial to the reloading process yiu use. Can any of you tell what a work hardened case feels like going thru the die?

ive annealed some 500 cases or more of various calibre and never had an issue with overheated brass, I have the tools although a crude method is the outlay of such machines worth the 5 % ( random figure) benefit in utmost consistency?... and as ebf pointed out unless each and every case is dimensionally the same then this might as well be a 308 vs 708 discussion

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## zimmer

> Where do you get your tempilaq from Zimmer ?


Heh @ebf post #69 :-)

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## Breyt

> Breyt, I think you misunderstand what I said. Each case IS slightly different - so having a consistent  amount of time in the flame is exactly what I do not like about machines... Let's face it, brass cases are extruded from material that is not exactly consistent.
> 
> If you have a bunch of cases that have all been neck turned extremely carefully, a machine may well get reasonably close. Take those same cases on a different day and run the machine with the same settings and you could be cooking your brass... So to be safe, each time you use the machine you need to tune the timing cycle using tempilaq or something similar.


i have to disagree with your statement! Doing it by hand has a far beter change cooking your cases than a machine. Its like building a car by hand it takes ages and you make far more mistakes that the machine ever can unless your set up was wrong; You don't need any skills to set up Auto annealing Machine

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## Breyt

> Hamish, extended brass life is a side-benefit for me. The primary reason I do it is to get consistent neck tension. But I shoot a LOT and get thru my brass reasonably quickly. After about 4-5 firings I can start to feel a difference in the force required to seat projectiles. It's a bit hard to explain, but I do seating by feel - my brass is extremely carefully turned and prepped. K&N make a great little arbor press with a force gauge on it - very high on my wish list. That would be a lot more scientific way of measuring when the necks become case hardened.


If you need constant accuracy you need to anneal those cases every 1-2 shots

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## 7mmsaum

I anneal after every firing, then go harvest deer.

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## Breyt

> But really how much xtra life are you getting?? Say a bag of brass costs lets say $200 for 100 rnds, therefore $2 each and after using them 10 times without annealing that works out to 20cents, is that such a bad thing. Seams a whole lot if work for little fain. 
> 
> Ok so I can see the target shooters rolling their eyes already,  but I am a hunter and max distance for me is 500-600m, it's s whole lot of time and pain that could be better used filling the freezer. Which is full BTW
> 
> Just my 10cents
> 
> Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


Good point but for target shooters they want to hit the bull every time which is much smaller that the kill zone on deer.
Normally cases will last about 10 shots maybe more before they start splitting.
annealing your cases regularly will make them last about 30 shots each so if you make that same calculation its a totally different story

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## Breyt

Guys all i'm trying to say is by annealing your cases more regularly is not a bad thing does not matter what your application is or how you do it.

ebf if you are interested i want to send you my Demo model to use next time you do annealing and give us feed back (You cant keep it you have to send it back when you are finished ) :Grin:

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## HNTMAD

> I anneal after every firing, then go harvest deer.


Maybe i need to start annealing then lol

Hamish

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## Gibo

> Youre right. Best results you size after annealing. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


So do I need to FL size after annealing or can I just neck size?

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## veitnamcam

> So do I need to FL size after annealing or can I just neck size?


Just neck unless you needed to bump the shoulder anyway.

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## Gibo

> Just neck unless you needed to bump the shoulder anyway.


Nah will neck cheers mate. Checked in chamber so was going to go ahead and neck em

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## R93

> So do I need to FL size after annealing or can I just neck size?


If they chamber easily I just neck size.
If they don't I bump the shoulder a smidge until they do.
Normally only have to bump them around the 5th firing and then they need the body die a few firings after that.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

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## Dead is better

I only bother annealing after 3rd firing. They 'feel' pretty similar when seating projectiles within that cycle so why bother doing it every time?

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