# Firearms and Shooting > Shotgunning >  20 gauge semi auto

## centralshooter

Hi folks

I'm a new member who lives in Central Otago and has a 20 acre block (I live in town, the block is undeveloped) that is overstocked with rabbits.  To date I've been using a .22 magnum but I'm getting too slow and the rabbits are getting too fast for me to keep their numbers down.  So, I've basically decided to go down the shotgun route.  As my wife will also use the gun and she's five foot nothing and has to run around in the shower to get wet I've decided to go to 20 gauge and semi-auto for lightness, ease of use, and low recoil.  I don't have an endless budget and to date have come up with three options 1: Armsan A620S at $799 from Hunting and Fishing, 2: Mossburg SA-20 at $899 from Gun City and 3: Kral Queen Black Synthetic at $699 also from Gun City.  They all "appear" to be pretty similar, the only obvious differences being more or less chokes supplied and the two Turkish models have high viz front sights.

So, I thought I'd join here and see what people who know about such things think.  The gun won't get a hard life as I'm probably unlikely to put much more than 100 or so rounds through it a year.  

I'd also appreciate any advice on shot and choke size for rabbit.  I'll have a search through the forum as well and probably find all the answers there ;-)

Cheers

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## gimp

Advice: please don't buy from Gun City.

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## Kiwi Sapper

> Advice: please don't buy from Gun City.


Hard not to when they are $100 below everyone else and offer free shipping NZ wide during June.

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## gimp

You'd think so, but then they don't have your gun in stock or it's broken or it's not what they advertised at all and their customer service policy is a piece of paper with "lol" written on it

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## distant stalker

The mrs has an armsan 20 gauge. Has used it for two seasons and it has killed a heap of ducks and a few quIl. Nice and fast and light and easy to shoot. No issues with it to date. With all of these guns it would pay to keep them cleanand well maintained as any binding will be where problems can potentially develop from in the form of the softer metals used in the bolt carriers etc being more easily bent which then gives friction and results in poor feeding. Hope that makes sense. As i said though this one has done quite a lit of work in poir conditions with no issue and has two arms on bolt carrier rather than the one sided vedsion i have seen on others which would just be asking for trouble in my books

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## Kiwi Sapper

> You'd think so, but then they don't have your gun in stock or it's broken or it's not what they advertised at all and their customer service policy is a piece of paper with "lol" written on it



Interesting.

The only response, were those "avoidance and delay techniques" to arise would be, in the words of a current television advert for a mould and mildew removal product ........"Walk away."

But if not, as our Ozzie mates say. worth a "suck of the sav" for a careful, forewarned,  buyer. :>)

However, as has been seen, offers may arise.

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## gimp

Or go ask your local store of preference to price match and don't need with noted shit-store Gun City!

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## sniper80

Hi and Welcome aboard

Lately, most of my gun needs have been met by the guys at Tairei Arms in Mosgiel. Their shelf prices are good, and they will often move a bit to match another price too. Excellent service!!  :Thumbsup: 

They also have a few specials on at the moment.

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## centralshooter

Thanks for the comments and help.  Not sure about the anti Gun City talk but I will certainly check around for a deal.  I'm not in a position to pay extra for a deal though just because some members aren't fans if particular outlets.  Unfortunately, living in the middle of Central, freight can be a major issue and Gun City's free freight deal will save a lot as I also want a gun safe, ammo etc etc.  Anyhow, I'll certainly try other sources as well.  Interestingly the only Company to instantly offer to match another dealers price so far is Gun City !!

Cheers

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## hanse

Lindsay Duncan SHOOTERS WORLD GORE! He is a very knowledgeable guy and will nearly always beat any price around. Providing he knows you are actually buying, guess he gets a few too many tyre kickers. I once asked him if he could beat Gun Shitty, with a grin he replied "If I couldn't beat them, I wouldn't be here." Anyone supporting Gun City above must work there, while it is a literal candy shop for choice, their pricing is WAY out there i.e. ratshit.   Great place to find the gun you like, then get it hundreds cheaper elsewhere. My 2c worth. Enjoy the forum.

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## centralshooter

Thanks for the heads up, hadn't considered Gore, will check them out.  Is there a particular reason for the anti Gun City sentiment here ?

Cheers

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## distant stalker

Their prices are generally inflated hence them being willing to give discount
 Their follow up on things if you have a problem with a product is shit. Standard of a lot of what they sell is rubbish. To me they seem to market to the bogan equivalent of the hunting world, tracer ammo etc. Just not a brand im a fan of with their pieced together firearms and chinese knock offs of products/guns

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## centralshooter

Fair enough, always happy to learn from others experiences, that's why I joined here !!

Cheers

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## gimp

They are terrible in almost every way. They are frequently massively overpriced, sell a lot of junk, give terrible advice, have non-existent customer service, the owner is a literal criminal.

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## gimp

I'll stop complaining about Gun City now. Shotguns are cool, get one.

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## centralshooter

> I'll stop complaining about Gun City now. Shotguns are cool, get one.


No problems and I certainly will be getting a shotgun in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers

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## seano

I own a Armsan 12gauge I bought from hunting and fishing about two years ago now ... think they still around the $799 mark .. very low recoil,synthetic stock which keeps it light.. really had little problems with the feeding(shot about 100 clays the other week with another noob "Cam" from forums only 2-3 jams,prob the "
nuts behind the wheel" more than gun's fault  :Wink:   .. Very easy to disassemble and clean.Mine came with 5 different sized chokes,so you can change them for hunting or clays etc 
Also found ,and have always found Great service at Hunting and Fishing.

Armsan

Go the Turks  :Thumbsup:

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## centralshooter

OK just been to the local dealer and been offered a new 20 gauge semi ATA in walnut for $850 including a gun bag and a slab of #5 ammo, 5 chokes AND he'll set it up for me with the shims etc to suit.  He's even allowed me to have it for the weekend to try it out.  Sounds like a good deal to me, what do people think ???

Cheers

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## The Claw

ATA would probably be my choice of sub $1k semi auto shotguns. Old man has one & it seems to be well built & reliable. I went into Shooters World to buy a 20g one 3 years ago & walked out with a m2 benelli...:rolleyes:

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

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## hanse

> ATA would probably be my choice of sub $1k semi auto shotguns. Old man has one & it seems to be well built & reliable. I went into Shooters World to buy a 20g one 3 years ago & walked out with a m2 benelli...:rolleyes:
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


Hahaha awesome! Remember that M2 can easy fire a million rounds  though. Best in the world!!!!

@ Centralshooter, sounds like a great deal mate, you probably cant really go wrong with that!

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## gimp

Just gotta ask if you've considered used guns, ie, I saw a used Benelli M1S90 for like $1000 the other day

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## centralshooter

Did think about it for a while but in the end I'd rather have a new weapon than possibly be buying somebody else's problems.  As I understand it ATA actually manufacture a lot if parts for Beretta, so I don't think their quality is too bad.  The reports I've seen rate them pretty highly in the value for money stakes.  I guess I'd consider second hand IF I knew the true history of a weapon but that's unlikely.  I'll put a few rounds through the ATA tomorrow and see how it feels to me.

Cheers

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## JoshC

Yeah can't go wrong with ata. Know a few guys that have had very good runs out of them.

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## TeRei

If you have the coin buy a 20g Benelli with 5 chokes and mag extension. Quality never goes out of fashion. Simply a fantastic weapon and I have an MI and M2 but my son guards his like a hawk.

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## centralshooter

> If you have the coin buy a 20g Benelli with 5 chokes and mag extension. Quality never goes out of fashion. Simply a fantastic weapon and I have an MI and M2 but my son guards his like a hawk.


Really no point in my spending more than I have to.  This gun won't get a lot of work and I doubt it'll get 200 rounds through it a year, so much as I appreciate where you're coming from it's simply not economic for me.  I had to work hard to convince myself not to just buy the cheapest pump action I could get !!!  So really ANY semi auto is pushing the boat out already.

Cheers

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## Chupacabra

I find in a 12g for rabbits #4s and above work ok, in winter you may find heavier better. Quite like 1/2 and 3/4 choke. High viz sights are great but you can pick up clip ons that go on the rib cheap as. 

For grins I took this picture yeasterday, shouldn't be too much recoil with one of these :Wink:

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## centralshooter

Well I've put a dozen rounds through it this afternoon.  I'm a complete novice with a shotgun so the recoil still surprised me a bit (wimp I know !!!), though after a few rounds I realised it was really just a "push" and caused no problems at all.  The noise was probably the biggest "wake up" call after the .22 Magnum, do you usually use ear protection or not ? I didn't but I did wonder ?  Guess if you're only shooting a few rounds over a period of time it wouldn't be too big an issue ?

Anyhow, overall I was pretty impressed, no problem hitting stationary targets out to 50m though that wouldn't have been a kill shot.  Moving targets are a matter of practice I suppose.  So, unless something comes up tonight I think I'll go with the local deal I have.  Should please the anti GunCity lobby anyway LOL.

Cheers and thanks for all the help.

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## gimp

Absolutely use ear protection!!!! Every shot is doing you damage. In theory you really should with the .22WMR as well unless it has a decent suppressor on it.

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## Wildman

> Well I've put a dozen rounds through it this afternoon.  I'm a complete novice with a shotgun so the recoil still surprised me a bit (wimp I know !!!), though after a few rounds I realised it was really just a "push" and caused no problems at all.  The noise was probably the biggest "wake up" call after the .22 Magnum, do you usually use ear protection or not ? I didn't but I did wonder ?  Guess if you're only shooting a few rounds over a period of time it wouldn't be too big an issue ?
> 
> Anyhow, overall I was pretty impressed, no problem hitting stationary targets out to 50m though that wouldn't have been a kill shot.  Moving targets are a matter of practice I suppose.  So, unless something comes up tonight I think I'll go with the local deal I have.  Should please the anti GunCity lobby anyway LOL.
> 
> Cheers and thanks for all the help.


Buy some electronic earmuffs from the states if you cant find cheap ones over here. Keep both eyes open and dont shoot lying down...

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## centralshooter

UPDATE:  FWIW I've ended up buying totally local so my thanks to all the forum members who made me question my options !!!  Central Otago Sports in Alexandra (I assume naming a company is OK ? if not moderators here should feel free to edit) have done a great deal for me I think as well as allowing me to "trial" the gun over the weekend.  So what's the deal ?:

20 gauge ATA semi-auto in Walnut with a slab of #5 (Gamebore, Signature, Pure Gold 20, 70mm, 30GMS) and a gun bag for $850 ($300 cheaper than Gun City even with their free freight !!!) plus I'm getting a 5 gun safe from them for $180 (nothing flash but it will certainly do the job bolted to the garage wall).

So, thanks again to all for their help, job done.  Now to find out about earmuffs !! I'll start a separate thread on that.

Cheers

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## Wildman

Good stuff Derek, sounds like a good enough deal and you're buying local. Nice. 

Now you just need to write a story of your hunting :Wink:

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## The Claw

Yeah Stu is a good bugger, always up for a yarn & I have got a couple good deals there in the past.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

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## JoshC

> UPDATE:  FWIW I've ended up buying totally local so my thanks to all the forum members who made me question my options !!!  Central Otago Sports in Alexandra (I assume naming a company is OK ? if not moderators here should feel free to edit) have done a great deal for me I think as well as allowing me to "trial" the gun over the weekend.  So what's the deal ?:
> 
> 20 gauge ATA semi-auto in Walnut with a slab of #5 (Gamebore, Signature, Pure Gold 20, 70mm, 30GMS) and a gun bag for $850 ($300 cheaper than Gun City even with their free freight !!!) plus I'm getting a 5 gun safe from them for $180 (nothing flash but it will certainly do the job bolted to the garage wall).
> 
> So, thanks again to all for their help, job done.  Now to find out about earmuffs !! I'll start a separate thread on that.
> 
> Cheers


No surprises there mate! Haha

Congrats on the new purchase, get out there and start sorting out those rabbits. 

Remember when they're on the hop, swing through, pass over their body and once you have a bit of a lead just past their nose squeeze the trigger. It'll take a bit of getting used to but you'll get there with practice.

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## centralshooter

Thanks guys, I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers

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## Josh

Have bought a few things from Central Otago Sports - definitely good sorts in there. You got a great gun, great price, and didn't get it from Gun City. Great outcome to the thread  :Thumbsup: 

Let me know if you need a hand eradicating those pesky rabbits  :Grin:

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## Mike H

Haven't read the whole post so I might have missed what your gonna be shooting. Word about the ammo, the 5's your buying are actually US 6's. They might be a bit small for ducks or rabbits, better off with Gamebore 3's or 4's(US 4 & 5). I used the exact same load as you in my wife's 20 gauge last year to see what the fuss was about with going back to lead and found it to be poor on ducks. Cut open a shell and realised why when I saw the smaller pellets.

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## centralshooter

Thanks for that Mike.  I've taken some 4s for now after your advice and talking at length to Stu.  I'll see how I go and I can get whatever I want for the rest, I don't have to take it all at once.  Another advantage of buying local !!

Cheers

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## jord

If go the mossberg. A mate of mine has had his for a few years, does exactly what you're about to do and swears by it. Solid action, trusted name and friendly calibre. Don't know much about the others but theres my five cents worth. 


Sent from my Browning

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## kotuku

> The mrs has an armsan 20 gauge. Has used it for two seasons and it has killed a heap of ducks and a few quIl. Nice and fast and light and easy to shoot. No issues with it to date. With all of these guns it would pay to keep them cleanand well maintained as any binding will be where problems can potentially develop from in the form of the softer metals used in the bolt carriers etc being more easily bent which then gives friction and results in poor feeding. Hope that makes sense. As i said though this one has done quite a lit of work in poir conditions with no issue and has two arms on bolt carrier rather than the one sided vedsion i have seen on others which would just be asking for trouble in my books


 you sir are spot on.a lot of derision directed at the first escort s/a shotguns was soley due to this.to put it bluntly "lazy bloody owners!"My own escort Ive had for over 6yrs now and even then it was 2nd hand.a very kind bloke at BallingersH&Faleerted me to that ,and ive been dilgent ever since.mind you 13yrs tf army too,tends to make me somewhat anal about good firearm maintainence.I was also bloody fortunate to have a very kind bloke on the orther forum send me a box of sparesarising from a brand new escort12g being laid down and run over on duckshooting opening day.thats mates for you it had 2rounds put through it before the barrel had bigger curve than nigella lawsons bust!
   so when the gas piston finally fractured (a milling oversight in manufacture) ,hey presto ,into ye carton and we are back in action.Im for beer money ,not gunsmiths fees(no offence intended to such craftsmen)

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## gsp follower

> I used the exact same load as you in my wife's 20 gauge last year to see what the fuss was about with going back to lead and found it to be poor on ducks.


is that mike h from southland please saY IT AINT SO :Thumbsup: 
5,s are ok  but  id go the opposite to mike h on bunnys. our 6s are dynamite on them without smashing them up even 7,s if they,re close,3,s are to tough on bunnies. pattern density is the key ie how many pellets are getting in the target at the ranges your taking them at. anyway have fun and welcome to the often complex art of shotgunning. your a hair away from ducks and a plethura of other exiting gamebird gunning :Grin:

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