# Hunting > Firearm Safety >  Another Aramoana???

## keneff

I see O'Connor and Gillespie (Waikato University fuckwit) http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/(agendae?) have been flapping their chops again, trying to demonise firearms and firearms owners. O'Connor wants to be a politician, God help us!! and Gillespie wants to think his opinion matters. Both are media whores who will give an opinion at the drop of a shutter button. But opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one, and my opinion of this pair is not fit for publication. Apropos of this, it seems the cops in the USA are killing a lot of people, mostly those of a darker complexion. And politicians are screaming "Gun Control!" Jeeeez I despair of this world, particularly our little part of it. Things like O'Connor and Gillespie should have compulsory muzzles. Fear-mongering shitheads that they are. And of course the media lap it up.

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## 223nut

And they still don't realise they are talking about illegal firearms which are owned by criminals. So no matter what firearm regulations they change nothing will change in real life!

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## tommygun

Easily the worst scare-mongering I've seen, absolutely shameful.

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## Maca49

Now calling military styled weapons MACHINE GUNS. Occonnor can not understand why anyone would want or need to own one! On Larry Williams on radio while driving home

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## systolic

> Easily the worst scare-mongering I've seen, absolutely shameful.


Why? 

New Zealand has a long history of multiple shootings, often by licenced firearm owners.

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## Beavis

> Why? 
> 
> New Zealand has a long history of multiple shootings, often by licenced firearm owners.


Because none of what he suggests will actually stop a mass shooting and he is clearly using the idea of a mass killing to sell his crusade.

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## Ryan

Fuck, how many threads on the same topic do we need?

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## WallyR

I have one of these 'dumbf##ks' living in my house.
She tolerates my guns, because they keep me out of the house and out from under her feet.
We 'discuss' the registration of guns - mostly when these idiots appear on TV, spouting off as if every law-abiding gun owner is a potential murderer.
No-one in politics has the guts to legislate for more severe penalties when weapons - of any kind - are used in the commission of a crime, including personal violence against the person.
Like most 'knee jerk' legislation which has unforeseen consequences that requires more legislation to correct 'anomalies', that were unintended.
Our useless Press/TV have failed the communities by presenting biased/sensationalist news - not balanced, reasoned, RESEARCHED information.
Something that our politicians are also guilty of.

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## Koshogi

> Fuck, how many threads on the same topic do we need?


4

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## systolic

> Because none of what he suggests will actually stop a mass shooting and he is clearly using the idea of a mass killing to sell his crusade.


His crusade to make the people he represents (the members of his union) safer? Isn't that what union presidents do? Lobby for better conditions for their members?

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## Ryan

> 4


Shot, struggling to keep up. Be out of fingers soon at this rate.

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## Maca49

> Shot, struggling to keep up. Be out of fingers soon at this rate.


Look after the trigger one!

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## Maca49

> Why? 
> 
> New Zealand has a long history of multiple shootings, often by licenced firearm owners.


Really? Like how many? Just counting civilians?

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## Beavis

> His crusade to make the people he represents (the members of his union) safer? Isn't that what union presidents do? Lobby for better conditions for their members?


But again none of what he is asking for will help make his members safer. How many police officers have been attacked with a .50  calibre rifle? How will registering guns stop criminals from stealing guns and pointing them at police?

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## 223nut

> Really? Like how many? Just counting civilians?


And compare that number to that of shooting involving illegal firearms... Ignoring the hunting not identifying your targets as they are a whole nother topic

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## Friwi

They may as well ban air guns, because at least it killed one policeman. So statisticly a air gun is more dangerous than a 50 cal, or a police officer is more likely to get kill by an air gun than a 50 cal.

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## 257weatherby

> Shot, struggling to keep up. Be out of fingers soon at this rate.


Get someone from the coast to help out, they have extras! :Thumbsup:

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## Maca49

> But again none of what he is asking for will help make his members safer. How many police officers have been attacked with a .50  calibre rifle? How will registering guns stop criminals from stealing guns and pointing them at police?


If it's your gun they will be able to pin the blame on you, and because it's registered with the police you will be more careful in keeping the details of the person you sold it to and you will be less likely to sell it it to a gang, as has been the case many times over, or an unregistered person. Yep it will stop any illegal guns getting into the wrong hands, he's a bloody genius, in shifting blame! :X X:

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## Moutere

> If it's your gun they will be able to pin the blame on you, and because it's registered with the police you will be more careful in keeping the details of the person you sold it to and you will be less likely to sell it it to a gang, as has been the case many times over, or an unregistered person. Yep it will stop any illegal guns getting into the wrong hands, he's a bloody genius, in shifting blame!


Spot on.

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## systolic

> Really? Like how many? Just counting civilians?


Four cops shot in Kawerau a few months ago.

How about the guy that killed the two women in the Ashburton Work and Income office?

Ashburton Work and Income shooter Russell John Tully sentenced to life with 27 years non-parole | Stuff.co.nz

Or that guy Mowatt who fired 29 shots to kill his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend in Papakura a couple of years ago? Licenced firearms owner.

The Bedroom Murders: 29 shots, 3 people dead. Why? - National - NZ Herald News

Four shot and one killed in Napier in 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Napier_shootings

Six killed with a shotgun in Raurimu in 1997.

crime.co.nz

Five shot dead in the Bain family murders in 1994.

Six more killed by that bloke Schlaepfer near Pukekohe in 1992. Farmer with his shotgun and a knife.

Stanley Graham in 1941 on the west coast. Shot and killed seven others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanle...of_the_rampage

That's just off the top of my head. There were more people maimed by guns in the same incidents.

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## 223nut

> Four cops shot in Kawerau a few months ago.
> 
> How about the guy that killed the two women in the Ashburton Work and Income office?
> 
> Ashburton Work and Income shooter Russell John Tully sentenced to life with 27 years non-parole | Stuff.co.nz
> 
> Or that guy Mowatt who fired 29 shots to kill his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend in Papakura a couple of years ago? Licenced firearms owner.
> 
> The Bedroom Murders: 29 shots, 3 people dead. Why? - National - NZ Herald News
> ...


And I am certain that not all of these were licence holders!!!

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## systolic

> And I am certain that not all of these were licence holders!!!


Where did I say they all were?

Mowatt and Graham certainly were. David Bain was too (We'll have to disregard him though because his conviction was overturned). Schaelfer I think was too.

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## rockland

Big feature on One News tonight about the triumphant return of Olympic medalists. Clips of various sports that won medals but no mention of our shooting success in trapshooting.

Then-surprise surprise-the item about illegal firearms. To their credit David Tipple was given a chance to comment,thankfully he speaks calmly and rationally on behalf of licensed shooters.

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## peril 787b

> Apropos of this, it seems the cops in the USA are killing a lot of people, mostly those of a darker complexion.


Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

Check your figures before making a statement such as this.

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## Miami_JBT

> And they still don't realise they are talking about illegal firearms which are owned by criminals. So no matter what firearm regulations they change nothing will change in real life!


Seems like your idiots are cut from the same cloth as our idiots. 

Here in the US they want to ban guns and they still can't figure out why the places with stringent gun control  have the highest crime rates. Bad guys don't follow the law!

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## Maca49

> And I am certain that not all of these were licence holders!!!


Sweet F A then? I think it's a very safe country for massacres, in the states I think more than two is a massacre, now just to totally screw this server, list all the murders and all the road deaths since 1941 just to put that in perspective?

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## Maca49

> And I am certain that not all of these were licence holders!!!


That doesn't count for Oconner :O O:

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## Maca49

> Seems like your idiots are cut from the same cloth as our idiots. 
> 
> Here in the US they want to ban guns and they still can't figure out why the places with stringent gun control  have the highest crime rates. Bad guys don't follow the law!


You have to stop talking logic, your screwing with my brain! :Have A Nice Day:

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## Danger Mouse

> Four cops shot in Kawerau a few months ago.
> 
> How about the guy that killed the two women in the Ashburton Work and Income office?
> 
> Ashburton Work and Income shooter Russell John Tully sentenced to life with 27 years non-parole | Stuff.co.nz
> 
> Or that guy Mowatt who fired 29 shots to kill his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend in Papakura a couple of years ago? Licenced firearms owner.
> 
> The Bedroom Murders: 29 shots, 3 people dead. Why? - National - NZ Herald News
> ...



how many had current licenses.

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## Miami_JBT

> You have to stop talking logic, your screwing with my brain!


I can't help it logic runs my career. Wait it's logical and my career that I wouldn't do what I do for a living because I don't make a lot of money. LOL

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## Danger Mouse

> Four cops shot in Kawerau a few months ago.
> 
> How about the guy that killed the two women in the Ashburton Work and Income office?
> 
> Ashburton Work and Income shooter Russell John Tully sentenced to life with 27 years non-parole | Stuff.co.nz
> 
> Or that guy Mowatt who fired 29 shots to kill his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend in Papakura a couple of years ago? Licenced firearms owner.
> 
> The Bedroom Murders: 29 shots, 3 people dead. Why? - National - NZ Herald News
> ...



how many had current licenses.

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## Kscott

> Four cops shot in Kawerau a few months ago.


Illegally possessed stolen firearm.




> How about the guy that killed the two women in the Ashburton Work and Income office?


Illegally possessed stolen firearm.




> Or that guy Mowatt who fired 29 shots to kill his ex girlfriend and her new boyfriend in Papakura a couple of years ago? Licenced firearms owner


A double murder, while tragic, is not a mass killing by any definition. Neither is a single suicide. Combining the two to be a mass murder is disingenuous.




> Four shot and one killed in Napier in 2009.


Illegally possessed firearms.




> Six killed with a shotgun in Raurimu in 1997.


A mass shooting by mentally ill person. Stephens own FAL was revoked, he stole his fathers shotgun and used that.




> Five shot dead in the Bain family murders in 1994.


A mass shooting by an unknown person. Firearms not stored in a safe.

Something that happened in 1941 to bolster your argument is pretty feeble tbh. 

Do you spot the theme though ? Illegally possessed firearms. People choosing to break the law. And Police own admission of a falling rate of resolution for crimes against property, dropping down to almost 10%. That means 90% of burglary IS NOT SOLVED.

If you're worried about ISIS followers going all Allah on us, spot something funny in this article on Stuff.
Muslim Association concerned with Auckland man's ISIS support claims | Stuff.co.nz
In the photo, he's posing with an airsoft AK.

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## Miami_JBT

> Illegally possessed stolen firearm.
> 
> 
> Illegally possessed stolen firearm.
> 
> 
> A double murder, while tragic, is not a mass killing by any definition. Neither is a single suicide. Combining the two to be a mass murder is disingenuous.
> 
> 
> ...


Here in the United States; Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook Killer. Got his guns by killing his mother and then breaking into the safe that his mother kept them secured in.

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## zimmer

Gunmaker Kalashnikov opens souvneir store at Moscow airport | Stuff.co.nz
Branch rumored for AI airport.....

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## systolic

> Illegally possessed stolen firearm.
> 
> 
> Illegally possessed stolen firearm.
> 
> 
> A double murder, while tragic, is not a mass killing by any definition. Neither is a single suicide. Combining the two to be a mass murder is disingenuous.
> 
> 
> ...


I said New Zealand had a long history of multiple shootings. Any more than one is multiple.  

Although I'm not sure the family and friends of Trevor Waite and Glenys Stanton would be comforted that their loved ones were killed in a 'double' murder, not a 'mass' murder by a licenced firearm owner. 

The murder of seven people by a licenced firearm owner in 1941 is just as relevant today as it was in 1941. The victims are still as dead, even though they are forgotten by most people. Like most have forgotten the victims in Paerata when Schlaepfer killed his family.

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## Ryan

How long is a piece of string? I think since firearms were invented, most countries have had a "long history" of multiple shootings.

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## Danger Mouse

> I said New Zealand had a long history of multiple shootings. Any more than one is multiple.  
> 
> Although I'm not sure the family and friends of Trevor Waite and Glenys Stanton would be comforted that their loved ones were killed in a 'double' murder, not a 'mass' murder by a licenced firearm owner. 
> 
> The murder of seven people by a licenced firearm owner in 1941 is just as relevant today as it was in 1941. The victims are still as dead, even though they are forgotten by most people. Like most have forgotten the victims in Paerata when Schlaepfer killed his family.


No it isnt, the legislation and society have both changed in 70 years.

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## GravelBen

> The murder of seven people by a licenced firearm owner in 1941 is just as relevant today as it was in 1941.


I guess it is relevant to the panic-stricken fearmongering claims of certain individuals that gun crime is an accelerating modern phenomenon.

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## Kscott

> I said New Zealand had a long history of multiple shootings. Any more than one is multiple.  
> 
> Although I'm not sure the family and friends of Trevor Waite and Glenys Stanton would be comforted that their loved ones were killed in a 'double' murder, not a 'mass' murder by a licenced firearm owner. 
> 
> The murder of seven people by a licenced firearm owner in 1941 is just as relevant today as it was in 1941. The victims are still as dead, even though they are forgotten by most people. Like most have forgotten the victims in Paerata when Schlaepfer killed his family.


Then unfortunately no amount of common sense presented to you will dis-sway you from your position. Each to their own.

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## Jexla

> If it's your gun they will be able to pin the blame on you, and because it's registered with the police you will be more careful in keeping the details of the person you sold it to and you will be less likely to sell it it to a gang, as has been the case many times over, or an unregistered person. Yep it will stop any illegal guns getting into the wrong hands, he's a bloody genius, in shifting blame!


"My guns were stolen" - Meaning I sold them to a gang.
Registration doesn't help there.




> Illegally possessed stolen firearm.
> 
> 
> Illegally possessed stolen firearm.
> 
> 
> A double murder, while tragic, is not a mass killing by any definition. Neither is a single suicide. Combining the two to be a mass murder is disingenuous.
> 
> 
> ...


What does the airsoft AK have to do with anything? You just pointing out that they said he has pics of him posing with a gun when it's not really a firearm?
Pretty standard from the media.

Also, that's a HORRIBLE airsoft gun, he clearly doesn't actually engage in the sport of airsoft.




> I said New Zealand had a long history of multiple shootings. Any more than one is multiple.  
> 
> Although I'm not sure the family and friends of Trevor Waite and Glenys Stanton would be comforted that their loved ones were killed in a 'double' murder, not a 'mass' murder by a licenced firearm owner. 
> 
> The murder of seven people by a licenced firearm owner in 1941 is just as relevant today as it was in 1941. The victims are still as dead, even though they are forgotten by most people. Like most have forgotten the victims in Paerata when Schlaepfer killed his family.


That's like saying the cannabis use from 1941 is still relevant to today.
Shit was well different.

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## Kscott

> What does the airsoft AK have to do with anything? You just pointing out that they said he has pics of him posing with a gun when it's not really a firearm?
> Pretty standard from the media.
> 
> Also, that's a HORRIBLE airsoft gun, he clearly doesn't actually engage in the sport of airsoft.


It points out that our gun laws must be pretty ok at the moment, when someone who wants to align themselves to ISIS can only access an airsoft plastic AK. This also puts perspective to the Police press release stating AK47's and M16's were found just laying in a warehouse.

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## Marty Henry

Another "Aramoana" is inevitable, sensational headline that!  even if its statistically less likely than this alternative headline Another Christchurch earthquake is inevitable. 
No matter how much you plan you will not be able to prevent either.

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## Barefoot

> The murder of seven people by a licenced firearm owner in 1941 is just as relevant today as it was in 1941. The victims are still as dead, even though they are forgotten by most people.


If your going to use Graham as an example of anything -he was a licensed firearm owner. He had a permit for several rifles, had been required to surrender them for the home guard but hid them instead so again someone actively breaking the law.

Yes NZ has a history of "mass murders" going back to when the first occupation. The reality is that firearms make up a very small percentage of them even in recent history.

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## Smartie

> Big feature on One News tonight about the triumphant return of Olympic medalists. Clips of various sports that won medals but no mention of our shooting success in trapshooting.
> 
> Then-surprise surprise-the item about illegal firearms. To their credit David Tipple was given a chance to comment,thankfully he speaks calmly and rationally on behalf of licensed shooters.


At the risk of ruining a good conspiracy theory, she was on tonight's news as she only came home today, one of the last to do so.

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## 10-Ring

> If your going to use Graham as an example of anything -he was a licensed firearm owner. He had a permit for several rifles, had been required to surrender them for the home guard but hid them instead so again someone actively breaking the law.
> 
> Yes NZ has a history of "mass murders" going back to when the first occupation. The reality is that firearms make up a very small percentage of them even in recent history.


Graham wasn't a licenced firearms owner. There was no firearms licence available in 1941 and for many decades later. You just had to prove that you were over 16 years old and obtain a permit to procure from the police, then you took it back to the police station so the sergeant at the desk could record the registration number incorrectly in the record book. 

Not even sure if there were any background checks done later to see if the new firearm owner had a criminal record. There probably was although I knew of some pretty shady characters who had no trouble buying, registering and keeping a rifle in the late 60's.

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## Kscott

> At the risk of ruining a good conspiracy theory, she was on tonight's news as she only came home today, one of the last to do so.


Shh, stop using facts, it's spoils the bias people have  :Wink:

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## keneff

> His crusade to make the people he represents (the members of his union) safer? Isn't that what union presidents do? Lobby for better conditions for their members?


His crusade is to establish a footing for his political ambitions. I don't know why police members put up with his constant stream of bullshit and self-promotion.

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## keneff

> Fuck, how many threads on the same topic do we need?


Well, as with TV or whatever, if you don't want to look at it, don't look at it. Like most things, basically simple.

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## Ryan

> Well, as with TV or whatever, if you don't want to look at it, don't look at it. Like most things, basically simple.


Thanks Captain Obvious, it was a rhetorical question - you know, basically.

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## keneff

> Where did I say they all were?
> 
> Mowatt and Graham certainly were. David Bain was too (We'll have to disregard him though because his conviction was overturned). Schaelfer I think was too.


Was there licening in 1941?10 years before I was born, so I dunno, but like george Wilder, Graham became something of a folk hero. Hitler was supposed to have sent him a telegram saying "You hold the South Island, I'll send a soldier to take the North Island." Probably a myth, but an indication that he was admired by some.

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## keneff

[QUOTE=peril 787b;
Check your figures before making a statement such as this.[/QUOTE]

Check what I wrote, Pal. You will see that I didn't quote ANY figures. Are you saying the cops need to shoot more blacks to bring some balance to the issue? Certainly the shooting of blacks gets much more media attention. Anti-white racism is rife in the US AND here. You don't need to be white to be a racist, and you don't need to be black, or brown, or yellow, to be a victim of it.

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## Shanes215

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REdjjLBaiOs

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## EeeBees

Found this...

The first gun control laws were enacted in 1845, but early regulations were ineffective until the passage of the Arms Act in 1860, which required licences and registration of firearms and firearm dealers. 

In 1920, the new law required the registration of all firearms and issuance of a "permit to procure" before a firearm was transferred. Semi-automatic pistols were banned and a special permit was needed for other pistols (e.g. revolvers), with the intent of discouraging the carrying of concealed weapons. Few changes were seen for the next forty years as crime remained low and the country avoided political violence.

An internal police report in 1982 criticised the proposals, saying there was no evidence that registration helped to solve crimes, and that registration would use time and money better spent on other police work. This policy was adopted by the government in the 1983 Act.

Trevor Mallard signed off the registration of firearms move...the politicians citing that the processes involved were too expensive.   The irony was, in my mind, that firearms become easier to procure; go figure!!!

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## Wirehunt

> Four cops shot in Kawerau a few months ago.
> 
> That's just off the top of my head. There were more people maimed by guns in the same incidents.


I remember hearing that one as it developed..  Sounded a lot like one possibly two of the cops shot each other.

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## Savage1

> I remember hearing that one as it developed..  Sounded a lot like one possibly two of the cops shot each other.


I know in detail what happened there, no cops shot each other.

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## systolic

> I know in detail what happened there, no cops shot each other.


Exactly. 

All those cops who were shot, were shot by the bad guy.

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## Wirehunt

Didn't sound like that on the radio reports, in fact has anyone seen the PCA report?

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## Savage1

> Didn't sound like that on the radio reports, in fact has anyone seen the PCA report?


Yup well the radio doesn't know f^%k all, I've spoken to people who were directly involved in the incident and the subsequent investigation.

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## tararua

How many more Christchurch earthquakes? How many more trucks have to fall off the ferry? We need to ban firearms before the gun related crime rate gets so low it naturally rebounds a little and we have a crisis on out hands.

Greg O'Connor if you hate freedom so much you should get a plane ticked and retire in that totalitarian penal colony west of New Zealand.

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## tararua

I agree tussock. Guns are a red herring issue.

I think the real issue is the resurgence of the methamphetamine trade and associated burglary increase. Guns being stolen are a byproduct of this.

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## tararua

I disagree tussock, NZ is training a Shi'ite dominated government/army which are a lot more palatable than the Sunni, Saudi backed enemy.

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## Beavis

Islamic militants will never get past stage 3 because they are fucking idiots. Have you not seen how they conduct themselves on the battlefield? They are as dangerous to each other as they are to one of the 50 factions they are fighting.

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## Danger Mouse

> Edit to add:
> 
> Police become militarised between 3 and 4
> Suspicion of the populace, "terrorists" (an original Roman political concept) and "watch lists" cause stage 5 when the paranoid Roman structure starts interning citizens as "enemies of the State".



not quite how i see it happen, i think more like the docco here, but close:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU

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## EeeBees

The issue of the police bearing firearms is a fair response to the need for that sort of protection and deterrant...I believe our police should be armed...just as the police in Poland and wherever else...our society has changed...and if our firearms are at risk, then we, all FAL bearers should speak up and take a stand...

As Mussolini quoted...better one day as a lion than a hundred years as a sheep...

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## systolic

> Look at our cops. NZ has never been richer (supposedly) and its never had more rules. You can't buy dynamite at Miter 10 anymore.
> 
> Yet supposedly the place has become so much more dangerous that we can't have guns and they desperately need them. 
> 
> In other words, they want more power for failing to make the place safer. 
> 
> This trend is not about to reverse.


Who has said "we can't have guns?"

The cops in Whangarei who were shot at a few days ago were reportedly unarmed and unable to stop the guy stealing their squad car.They were lucky he didn't hit and kill them.

He then hijacked another car at gunpoint and took off. I'm sure the people who were robbed of their car at gunpoint would have prefered the police were able to stop him before they were attacked.

 Why shouldn't they carry guns to protect themselves and the public?

It sounds to me like the cops DO desperatly need more guns, or at least carry the ones they have.

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## GravelBen

Meh, they probably just lose them... again.

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## Moutere

> Why shouldn't they carry guns to protect themselves and the public?


It has little to do with keeping the public safe.
My prediction is that would have little bearing on general public safety, just like any other country where the police are armed all the time.
Quite likely the complete opposite.

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## Beavis

I would be ok with police carrying firearms if they demonstrated some trust towards the public and our own firearms usage.

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## Sasquatch

> I would be ok with police carrying firearms if they demonstrated some trust towards the public and our own firearms usage.


Exactly, but that is not happening and this distrust is trending globally in Western society. Subsequently the police themselves are undoubtedly becoming more _militarized_ as we spiral towards an unprecedented, relentless war on *terrorism* 

How much civil liberty will we lose trying to stop an invisible enemy? It appears the drones can't seem to connect all hits? Govt surveillance can't keep track of the terrorists and the analysts that work for these _intelligence_ agencies seem to miss obvious suspects of extremism.

Terrorism has in recent times been used as leverage to gain more power for easier control.

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## Beavis

Pretty much. I would rather live in a free society than give up guns for the greater good, just because a psycho  or islamist might get one. Especially considering the state and the media as it were probably has a lot to do with festering people into committing acts of violence. I haven't done anything wrong, though I'm sure I meet Mr. Gillespie's criteria of what a "right wing terrorist" is.

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## Marty Henry

Just turn the entire country into a prison and arrest people on the suspicion of intending to commit a crime at some time. How much safer could you get than that?

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## gonetropo

> Just turn the entire country into a prison and arrest people on the suspicion of intending to commit a crime at some time. How much safer could you get than that?


George Orwell 1984 referred to it as "thoughtcrime"

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## Marty Henry

As with some other authors he seems to have accurately predicted the direction governments are heading, you imprision your citizens to ensure their freedom.

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## Kscott

> Exactly, but that is not happening and this distrust is trending globally in Western society. Subsequently the police themselves are undoubtedly becoming more _militarized_ as we spiral towards an unprecedented, relentless war on *terrorism*


Fantastic documentary on this on Al Jazerra here :
Deadly Force: Arming America's Police - Al Jazeera English

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## Danger Mouse

They dont have the necessary firearms skills to be armed all the time. one qualification shoot a year isnt it? a civilian pistol shooter does a minimum of 12 per year. They need ongoing firearms training every year to be armed full time. They dont have the money for it.

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## Jexla

> I know in detail what happened there, no cops shot each other.


So the bad guy did shoot them all? 
I fucking hate our media.
Is there any public information about what actually happened or just "first person accounts"?
I'd love to have a read.

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## Savage1

> Fantastic documentary on this on Al Jazerra here :
> Deadly Force: Arming America's Police - Al Jazeera English


A very bias documentary which ignores some really basic facts. It didn't have a single decent argument presented and the incidents portrayed were portrayed in a very bias manner and the points made by the family and lawyers are most often very easily explained.

If you don't like the term 'military style' wrongly used then avoid this documentary.

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## Kscott

I thought it hit the spot a few times tbh, the militarization of the US Police force has been ongoing for a while and highlites the problems it creates.

Closer to home the Lindt Cafe siege in Sydney in 2014 the militarization was pretty remarkable, along with the sad consequences of theory, training vs reality.

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## Kscott

> So the bad guy did shoot them all? 
> I fucking hate our media.
> Is there any public information about what actually happened or just "first person accounts"?
> I'd love to have a read.


There is no public information released _by the Police_ at this stage. It will come out in the trial.

----------


## Steve123

> We have presently, as mentioned in the four Horseman of the Apocalypse, the largest transferral of wealth in human history. Financial manipulation is being used to transfer and apocalyptic amount of wealth out of peoples pockets.
> 
> No one has noticed yet. 
> 
> When they do, police will have to keep a vice like grip on order to protect all that stolen loot. Its all been obtained legally using laws that were passed when no one was looking.
> 
> Cops will need to intimidate a lot of people. 
> 
> Trully feee societies can't have terrorism as they just don't scare and interfere with them at uout peril. 
> ...


Will you stop teasing me about the apocalypse. Everytime I get my hopes up it's just same ol' same ol'

----------


## Savage1

> I thought it hit the spot a few times tbh, the militarization of the US Police force has been ongoing for a while and highlites the problems it creates.
> 
> Closer to home the Lindt Cafe siege in Sydney in 2014 the militarization was pretty remarkable, along with the sad consequences of theory, training vs reality.


You may call it militarization however they're just adapting their tactics and progressing to more practical and effective equipment, as they should. just because they're operating in the civilian environment doesn't mean they aren't in danger, just look how many shootings and cops that are killed in the USA every year. I wish the NZ police had more practical uniform for the frontline officers rather than dress pants and silly hats.

I may be wrong but if it was done in a military type of way they'd be using frag grenades, overwhelming fire etc. 

What's the alternative? Unarmed cops in suit and tie? No distraction devices? No overwhelming tactics? No chest rigs because they look too much like the military?

Some of the stories in that doco didn't add up.

----------


## steven

> I see O'Connor and Gillespie (Waikato University fuckwit) http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/(agendae?) have been flapping their chops again, trying to demonise firearms and firearms owners. O'Connor wants to be a politician, God help us!! and Gillespie wants to think his opinion matters. Both are media whores who will give an opinion at the drop of a shutter button. But opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one, and my opinion of this pair is not fit for publication. Apropos of this, it seems the cops in the USA are killing a lot of people, mostly those of a darker complexion. And politicians are screaming "Gun Control!" Jeeeez I despair of this world, particularly our little part of it. Things like O'Connor and Gillespie should have compulsory muzzles. Fear-mongering shitheads that they are. And of course the media lap it up.


The academic should be following academic rigour, ie proving with evidence what he is proposing will make a difference and the extra cost would be worthwhile.   He is on the face of it failing miserably in this, except I dont think this is his total agenda.  What I think is going on is he/they are looking for justification to curb ALL firearms. One way is to frighten the voters and do like OZ and limit a licence holder to just a few guns as "who needs so many?"  

As an aside some comments on the Canadian fiasco,

"Former Ontario Provincial Police Commissioner Julian Fantino opposed the gun registry, stating in a press release in 2003:

    We have an ongoing gun crisis including firearms-related homicides lately in Toronto, and a law registering firearms has neither deterred these crimes nor helped us solve any of them. None of the guns we know to have been used were registered, although we believe that more than half of them were smuggled into Canada from the United States. The firearms registry is long on philosophy and short on practical results considering the money could be more effectively used for security against terrorism as well as a host of other public safety initiatives."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi...earms_Registry

So we would probably waste millions doing it and actually achieve little if not zlich, as this quote points out,

"On September 8, 2014 an appeal by the Barbra Schlifer Clinic to the Ontario Superior Court of Justice to rule that the withdrawal of the Long Gun Registry was unconstitutional was denied. The applicants sought to show that the removal of the Registry denied women their rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to: "life, liberty and security of the person". In its judgment the court ruled that there was not sufficient evidence to conclude that the Registry had been of any measurable benefit to women and that statistically rates of firearms-related violence had been following a trend downward before the Registry and had not changed after the Registry had been withdrawn"

----------


## Jexla

> I may be wrong but if it was done in a military type of way they'd be using frag grenades, overwhelming fire etc.


You mean like when they C4'd the guy stuck in the parking complex?

----------


## steven

Oh and to add some icing,

NZ's firearm homicide rate drops - National - NZ Herald News

"Gun killings in New Zealand have declined the most in an international comparison - even though this country has less strict licensing laws than Canada and Australia."

and in fact,

"The study suggests unemployment rates and the availability of heroin are more significant factors in firearm homicides than gun control."

So spend the Millions on dealing with these 2 is more likely to have a positive effect than a registry.

----------


## Jexla

> Oh and to add some icing,
> 
> NZ's firearm homicide rate drops - National - NZ Herald News
> 
> "Gun killings in New Zealand have declined the most in an international comparison - even though this country has less strict licensing laws than Canada and Australia."
> 
> and in fact,
> 
> "The study suggests unemployment rates and the availability of heroin are more significant factors in firearm homicides than gun control."
> ...


Isn't it funny to see this though?

"Police Association president Greg O'Connor, who advocates arming police officers, said the decline in firearm homicides showed New Zealand had well-balanced gun licensing."

"I would be very disappointed if as a result of the actions of criminals in New Zealand, there was an encroachment against lawful gun-owning people."

----------


## Kscott

> You may call it militarization however they're just adapting their tactics and progressing to more practical and effective equipment, as they should. just because they're operating in the civilian environment doesn't mean they aren't in danger, just look how many shootings and cops that are killed in the USA every year. I wish the NZ police had more practical uniform for the frontline officers rather than dress pants and silly hats.
> 
> I may be wrong but if it was done in a military type of way they'd be using frag grenades, overwhelming fire etc. 
> 
> What's the alternative? Unarmed cops in suit and tie? No distraction devices? No overwhelming tactics? No chest rigs because they look too much like the military?
> 
> Some of the stories in that doco didn't add up.


All good points. Esp the silly hat  :Thumbsup:

----------


## Sasquatch

> You may call it militarization however they're just adapting their tactics and progressing to more practical .


I suppose this is just simply _adapting_ & being practical then?

----------


## Ryan

> I would be ok with police carrying firearms if they demonstrated some trust towards the public and our own firearms usage.


 @Beavis "Safer communities together".

----------


## Dead is better

This kind crap just accumulates a momentum of its own. All of a sudden the law makers are busy protecting us from a declining threat (with so much enthusiasm). I'm just glad that Greg o connar came around before doing anymore damage to our "privellages".

----------


## Jexla

> This kind crap just accumulates a momentum of its own. All of a sudden the law makers are busy protecting us from a declining threat (with so much enthusiasm). I'm just glad that Greg o connar came around before doing anymore damage to our "privellages".


He didn't, that was quotes from the 2010 article above.

----------


## Danger Mouse

In stuff and the nz herald, both are running articles about worsening crime stats - the main cause? burglary increases. Has the plod smartened up to realize the damage burglary is doing yet? And that this is how criminals are obtaining their firearms? after all, with only a 1 in 10 chance of getting caught (a disgusting 9% resolution rate), why wouldnt you?

----------


## Ryan

> In stuff and the nz herald, both are running articles about worsening crime stats - the main cause? burglary increases. Has the plod smartened up to realize the damage burglary is doing yet? And that this is how criminals are obtaining their firearms? after all, with only a 1 in 10 chance of getting caught (a disgusting 9% resolution rate), why wouldnt you?


Also reported in the news recently is that burglary has now been classified as a priority crime. All instances of burglary are to be attended by police.

----------


## gonetropo

> In stuff and the nz herald, both are running articles about worsening crime stats - the main cause? burglary increases. Has the plod smartened up to realize the damage burglary is doing yet? And that this is how criminals are obtaining their firearms? after all, with only a 1 in 10 chance of getting caught (a disgusting 9% resolution rate), why wouldnt you?


and when caught its a case of "naughty boy, dont do it again".

----------


## Chilli_Dog

There are articles about rising crime rates Official crime stats reveal burglaries and crime rising | Stuff.co.nz 
Personally I dont think you can read too much into it after incidents like the Manakau Police reclassifying burglaries as incidents etc to make their stats look better, they got caught, whos to say other districts havent been doing the same and have just decided not to do it anymore.....

----------


## Danger Mouse

> Also reported in the news recently is that burglary has now been classified as a priority crime. All instances of burglary are to be attended by police.


Ill believe it when i see it.

----------


## Jexla

> In stuff and the nz herald, both are running articles about worsening crime stats - the main cause? burglary increases. Has the plod smartened up to realize the damage burglary is doing yet? And that this is how criminals are obtaining their firearms? after all, with only a 1 in 10 chance of getting caught (a disgusting 9% resolution rate), why wouldnt you?


I don't like the word resolution, as that implies that they were investigated. 
I imagine the 9% would be where they were caught red handed or a witness was forward about providing extremely identifiable information, or there was significant video evidence that made an arrest extremely easy.

----------


## kotuku

> I wish people would stop mentioning Stan Graham. NZ was a very new colony in 1941 and the West Coast was still the frontier. Arguably it got law in the 80s. Stan Graham tried to give himself him repeatedly and every time he walked into the open he was fired and then won the ensuing gun battle. It was war time and at one point they considered bombing the forest. He was facing people who held their manhood cheap for not being overseas. 
> 
> I had a very interesting chat with a detective in 2000 after witnessing an unusual crime. He stayed and yarned for ages. Eveyone loves to hang out in student flats instead of the office. The uniformed officer probably told him how hot my flatmates were. 
> 
> He stated burglery was an escalating crime. Every time a criminal enters someone elses property successfully they gain confidence. He told me it it was extremely important to follow them up early, as they initially only enter empty dwellings, then progress to occupied dwellings then can become violent. 
> 
> I think this makes a lot of sense. 
> 
> So if police are only solving 10% of property related crime which is believable as this detective was the last person I ever heard of following it up, then I think the whole gun whinge is a red herring. 
> ...


you dead bloody wrong about Stan Graham tussock-bloody pity you didnt look up accurate information.graham shot 3cpopsnd a school inspectorcops then went bush,when he came back to the house he committed his second ltof homicides on the home guardsman,afet he fucking opened fire first.it was here that a homeguardsamn who made it into grahmas house saw him outlined against a corner and inflicted the massive wound to his right shoulder. He calined when ambushed and shot (by const J D'arcy quirke) to be coming into surrenderdue to a grossly septic shoulder wounde ,but in fact all the b loody firearms he carried were loaded. one of my informants a hoki police constable at the time told me straight "stan wouldnt surrender ..his pride wouldnt let him!

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## R93

There is still bad blood in the valley over Stan and so, a lot of misinformation.
I have always been interested in the incident as it is my back yard,
My wife and many friends were in the movie and she is related to Stan. I was also in a team with Quirke's son while in the Army.

Family's that were effected all tell slightly different stories.
I drive past his old house site nearly everyday when home.
A picture of him and club members of the time still reside in my clay target club. It was a sad state of affairs no matter how you look at it. 

IMO he dug his own grave and I am sure if licenced firearms owners acted the way he did prior to Best  getting shot, today. They would/should lose their licence well before anything like that can escalate.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## kotuku

> you dead bloody wrong about Stan Graham tussock-bloody pity you didnt look up accurate information.graham shot 3cpopsnd a school inspectorcops then went bush,when he came back to the house he committed his second ltof homicides on the home guardsman,afet he fucking opened fire first.it was here that a homeguardsamn who made it into grahmas house saw him outlined against a corner and inflicted the massive wound to his right shoulder. He calined when ambushed and shot (by const J D'arcy quirke) to be coming into surrenderdue to a grossly septic shoulder wounde ,but in fact all the b loody firearms he carried were loaded. one of my informants a hoki police constable at the time told me straight "stan wouldnt surrender ..his pride wouldnt let him!


 sorry for the fucking atrocious spelling folks-comes at typing in semi dark.BTW R93-was aware of the mixed feelings over the doco,and movie bad blood being made. every time i take a trip over there and drive past the hall and the paddock i feel cold shivers.

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## R93

Some of his bullet holes are still in the hall.

Married the cook in the church next door.


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

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## PERRISCICABA

Here's an article on One News Now I thought you might be interested in. 

NZ in danger of another mass shooting following spate of attacks on police, says firearms expert 
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...irearms-expert


Mac

----------


## tetawa

> Here's an article on One News Now I thought you might be interested in. 
> 
> NZ in danger of another mass shooting following spate of attacks on police, says firearms expert 
> https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...irearms-expert
> 
> 
> Mac


If Gillespie was such an expert as proclaimed he would think thru his statements a bit better, sounds like a certain Mr Alpers in a different dress. If a firearm is registered does it stop it being used in a mass shooting?

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## jakewire

Goddamn I love it that there is no politics on this Forum.

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## Jexla

> Goddamn I love it that there is no politics on this Forum.


Unfortunately politics and are sport are intertwined even though we don't want them to be.
Talking about what our sport faces and having a medium in which to do so is important.

----------


## ChrisF

What a load of dribble from O'connor , he has one yr or less in his current job , & given the TV time he gets , he is more important than the Police Commissionar & Minister ?
He has been pushing his own agenda for quite some time , and he will use anything to try and get his way before hes Out , he is getting desperate  .
At least half , maybe more actual poilce donot want to be armed fulltime , they realise that , maybe they are not quite up to the task/responsibilty , also that is not needed at the moment .
In every cop car there are guns , and when did you last see a cop walking a beat ?

I donot like the current trend of PC/social engineering / propaganda & down right lies massaqrading for facts & truth , we have enough real problems , and we need real solutions , not this in-correct bandaid crap .

RE : Crims usng guns in the commision of a crime , 

1) Gun laws & registration , will have NO impact on crims , they donot abide by any laws , writting more , DOES nothing , in real terms , we all know this , then why do the powers to be , seem to have NO common sense whats so ever ?

2 ) If you want to stop people using guns in a crime , simple , Laws , ie banning , will do nothing , BUT a penilty will effect them , once the Judge does his job , If you said , now anyone using a gun in a crime , will have life inprisonment ( actual ) , then almost over night , you will have almost zero crimes , involving guns .Why , because as stupid as crims are , they would recognonise that , the penilty is extremely harsh , and over night , would use anything else , ie machettes , axes , bats , clubs , knives etc , you get the story .

Also , anyone , tell me , why the Journo woman did not get prosecuted ? , she actually broke 3 laws , and they had the proof , so I ask again WHY was she let off ? , if it had been you or I , do you think the out come would be the same ?

Things happen for a reason , the way he goes on, you would think he has shares in Glock , and shares in a Alpers type firm for the registery ?

With the why current vetting is done in NZ at the moment , I think its very well thought out , the Only thing more oppressive govts in Europe do , is getting a Shrinks report , however , given the current way its done in NZ , ie a family member & non-family member , and actual face to face interviews , its very good , the Shrink would just make it more expensive for no real actual gain .

Me , I not worried about guns in NZ , as I think , its a rather well balanced approach at the moment , Me I more worried about Box cutters/stanely knives & petrol .

Later  Chris

----------


## Jexla

> In every cop car there are guns , and when did you last see a cop walking a beat ?


Just a fyi to all, I've been told that not ALL police cars actually have guns in them.
I imagine it's limited to the I cars and senior ranks cars. That's just my assumption, not fact.

----------


## Beavis

I assume thats because they can't afford them

----------


## systolic

> I assume thats because they can't afford them


Could the cops not set up some traffic checkpoints and speed cameras to raise some more money?

Or does the money go directly to the government after cops issue tickets?

----------


## 300CALMAN

> Goddamn I love it that there is no politics on this Forum.


I hate to agree with the red-head but yes unfortunately firearms and politics are inseparable. Always will be.

----------


## Beavis

> Could the cops not set up some traffic checkpoints and speed cameras to raise some more money?
> 
> Or does the money go directly to the government after cops issue tickets?


To the Crown if I recall. Govt decides how much money Police get.

----------


## Jexla

> I hate to agree with the red-head but yes unfortunately firearms and politics are inseparable. Always will be.


I speak a lot of truth, just people like you are afraid to admit it.

Think about that for a second, or two.

----------


## Kscott

> To the Crown if I recall. Govt decides how much money Police get.


This. The Police NEVER get the money directly, no matter how many tickets are issued. Accepting this is the hardest fact for a lot of people. Grateful for living in a country where paying the Police directly is not an option  :Wink:

----------


## Savage1

> I speak a lot of truth, just people like you are afraid to admit it.
> 
> Think about that for a second, or two.


You also have a propensity to speak about topics as though you are knowlageable on the topic when clearly you actually know very little. This is clearly shown over your last few posts where you continue to make incorrect assumptions. 

If you don't know then ask questions rather than voice assumptions, I'm more than happy to answer questions in my very narrow area of expertise.

----------


## 308

> You also have a propensity to speak about topics as though you are knowlageable on the topic when clearly you actually know very little. This is clearly shown over your last few posts where you continue to make incorrect assumptions. 
> 
> If you don't know then ask questions rather than voice assumptions, I'm more than happy to answer questions in my very narrow area of expertise.


Just block the fuckwit is my recommendation - works wonders I tell ya

----------


## Jexla

> You also have a propensity to speak about topics as though you are knowlageable on the topic when clearly you actually know very little. This is clearly shown over your last few posts where you continue to make incorrect assumptions. 
> 
> If you don't know then ask questions rather than voice assumptions, I'm more than happy to answer questions in my very narrow area of expertise.


Broad "you are wrong/s". 
I specifically said something was an assumption, meaning that it was likely wrong. 
Defining something as an assumption is far from pretending to be knowledgeable*. 
Clearly you don't make assumptions in your life span fullstop. 

If someone is wrong about an assumption, which they define as an assumption, and you know otherwise, why not just say? 
I put the assumption out for that purpose.

308, that's rather nasty isn't it?

----------


## Sasquatch

Not this again fellas... Can't we all just be friends?

And yes @308 that was abit uncalled for.

----------


## 300CALMAN

:Fighting:

----------


## Moutere

> 308, that's rather nasty isn't it?


No worse than your signature to be honest.

----------


## Savage1

> Broad "you are wrong/s". 
> I specifically said something was an assumption, meaning that it was likely wrong. 
> Defining something as an assumption is far from pretending to be knowledgeable*. 
> Clearly you don't make assumptions in your life span fullstop. 
> 
> If someone is wrong about an assumption, which they define as an assumption, and you know otherwise, why not just say? 
> I put the assumption out for that purpose.
> 
> 308, that's rather nasty isn't it?


Did you just edit a recent post and delete another just to try and cover up? You need to stop being so childish and arrogant.

If your assumptions are likely to be wrong then you're better off not making them. It's your job to seek correct information rather than the responsibility of other people to correct your incorrect assumptions that you post on a public forum. Like I said in my last post, if you want to know something, you ask, rather than make assumptions seeking validation or correction.

----------


## Jexla

> Did you just edit a recent post and delete another just to try and cover up? You need to stop being so childish and arrogant.
> 
> If your assumptions are likely to be wrong then you're better off not making them. It's your job to seek correct information rather than the responsibility of other people to correct your incorrect assumptions that you post on a public forum. Like I said in my last post, if you want to know something, you ask, rather than make assumptions seeking validation or correction.


I've deleted and edited nothing. You can't even edit a post after x amount of time after posting it. 

Edit: nor can you delete them. 

Why so paranoid? 

Unfortunately the topic I was was talking about doesn't have freely accessible information on the internet. 
I knew you were watching the thread and figured you'd have taken joy in correcting my clearly confessed assumption. 
I'm sorry you've taken so much offense to a self confessed assumption.

----------


## Savage1

> I've deleted and edited nothing. You can't even edit a post after x amount of time after posting it. 
> 
> Edit: nor can you delete them. 
> 
> Why so paranoid? 
> 
> Unfortunately the topic I was was talking about doesn't have freely accessible information on the internet. 
> I knew you were watching the thread and figured you'd have taken joy in correcting my clearly confessed assumption. 
> I'm sorry you've taken so much offense to a self confessed assumption.


Yep sorry my bad, just a post I thought you'd post seems to have disappeared. 

I was also talking about assumptions you have made in previous topics, not only this one.

----------


## Jexla

Regardless, everyone makes assumptions, it's not the end of the world, if you know better then make a comment like I did correcting the person's "assumption" who I quoted.

You know what they say, no need to a be a dick about it.

If it helps you, just take the pleasure in knowing you knew more about something than someone else and you were able to help others know things as fact.

People make assumptions, it's human nature.

----------


## 300CALMAN

> I speak a lot of truth, just people like you are afraid to admit it.
> 
> Think about that for a second, or two.


 :Wtfsmilie:  but?! I just agreed.

----------


## Jexla

> but?! I just agreed.


Generally people are.

 :Thumbsup:

----------


## Sasquatch

Not a lot of good conversations have come from such an obscene thread title name..

Not something I particularly enjoy talking about, But interestingly, "Another Aramoana" has been pondering on the shooting community for awhile now. You could argue that probability has gone up for _one_ in recent times due to mass increase of "immigrants" 

Especially *radical* ones...

----------


## Pengy

> Not a lot of good conversations have come from such an obscene thread title name..
> 
> Not something I particularly enjoy talking about, But interestingly, "Another Aramoana" has been pondering on the shooting community for awhile now. You could argue that probability has gone up for _one_ in recent times due to mass increase of "immigrants" 
> 
> Especially *radical* ones...


Not wishing to derail the thread, but you obviously didn't watch tonights episode of The hard stuff with Nigel latta before making the comment re `mass increase of immigrants`

----------


## Sasquatch

It's been the conversation of the day, since 06:30am on Radio LIVE it started just before work... Talked about a couple of times on our building site, briefly with my wife then Ironically I saw bits of that show tonght.

Immigrant propaganda? lol

----------


## Pengy

Who knows for sure. I know I was surprised by the numbers that were put out.

----------


## Sasquatch

Agree. Those numbers where _mind-boggling_...

----------


## 308

Care to summarise for those of us who've given tv the flick?

I'm not worried about immigrants per se as much as I am about people who flip out and pop their loved ones off. I think that domestic violence awareness is a good way towards stopping those who would want to go on some sort of spree. Eg when the Mrs broke her arm horseriding recently the hospital staff distracted me with some paperwork and took her to one side and asked "does he hit you?" - far from being offended I think that it is the sort of question that should be asked. 

Also on Pistol Club committee we suss out people who want to get their B who present as oddballs (or even really poor shots) and keep an eye out for who may present a problem

Not to think of it as some sort of star chamber, more to show two ways out of many that the community engages with FA owners to ensure that their mental health is stable and that people of good character are allowed to enjoy their sport

The fact that there hasn't been some sort of Aramoana shows that we have got something right at least

----------


## Steve123

> but?! I just agreed.


I think they're arguing about how to argue now.

----------


## Kscott

lol, migrants complaining about migrants is always disheartening to read.

----------


## Savage1

> I've deleted and edited nothing. You can't even edit a post after x amount of time after posting it. 
> 
> Edit: nor can you delete them. 
> 
> Why so paranoid? 
> 
> Unfortunately the topic I was was talking about doesn't have freely accessible information on the internet. 
> I knew you were watching the thread and figured you'd have taken joy in correcting my clearly confessed assumption. 
> I'm sorry you've taken so much offense to a self confessed assumption.


Yep sorry my bad, just a post I thought you'd post seems to have disappeared. 

I was also talking about assumptions you have made in previous topics, not only this one.

----------


## Jexla

Regardless, everyone makes assumptions, it's not the end of the world, if you know better then make a comment like I did correcting the person's "assumption" who I quoted.

You know what they say, no need to a be a dick about it.

If it helps you, just take the pleasure in knowing you knew more about something than someone else and you were able to help others know things as fact.

People make assumptions, it's human nature.

----------


## 300CALMAN

> I speak a lot of truth, just people like you are afraid to admit it.
> 
> Think about that for a second, or two.


 :Wtfsmilie:  but?! I just agreed.

----------


## Jexla

> but?! I just agreed.


Generally people are.

 :Thumbsup:

----------


## Sasquatch

Not a lot of good conversations have come from such an obscene thread title name..

Not something I particularly enjoy talking about, But interestingly, "Another Aramoana" has been pondering on the shooting community for awhile now. You could argue that probability has gone up for _one_ in recent times due to mass increase of "immigrants" 

Especially *radical* ones...

----------


## Pengy

> Not a lot of good conversations have come from such an obscene thread title name..
> 
> Not something I particularly enjoy talking about, But interestingly, "Another Aramoana" has been pondering on the shooting community for awhile now. You could argue that probability has gone up for _one_ in recent times due to mass increase of "immigrants" 
> 
> Especially *radical* ones...


Not wishing to derail the thread, but you obviously didn't watch tonights episode of The hard stuff with Nigel latta before making the comment re `mass increase of immigrants`

----------


## Sasquatch

It's been the conversation of the day, since 06:30am on Radio LIVE it started just before work... Talked about a couple of times on our building site, briefly with my wife then Ironically I saw bits of that show tonght.

Immigrant propaganda? lol

----------


## Pengy

Who knows for sure. I know I was surprised by the numbers that were put out.

----------


## Sasquatch

Agree. Those numbers where _mind-boggling_...

----------


## 308

Care to summarise for those of us who've given tv the flick?

I'm not worried about immigrants per se as much as I am about people who flip out and pop their loved ones off. I think that domestic violence awareness is a good way towards stopping those who would want to go on some sort of spree. Eg when the Mrs broke her arm horseriding recently the hospital staff distracted me with some paperwork and took her to one side and asked "does he hit you?" - far from being offended I think that it is the sort of question that should be asked. 

Also on Pistol Club committee we suss out people who want to get their B who present as oddballs (or even really poor shots) and keep an eye out for who may present a problem

Not to think of it as some sort of star chamber, more to show two ways out of many that the community engages with FA owners to ensure that their mental health is stable and that people of good character are allowed to enjoy their sport

The fact that there hasn't been some sort of Aramoana shows that we have got something right at least

----------


## Steve123

> but?! I just agreed.


I think they're arguing about how to argue now.

----------


## Kscott

lol, migrants complaining about migrants is always disheartening to read.

----------

