# Firearms and Shooting > Reloading and Ballistics >  Component shortage

## Cigar

I happened to watch a Youtube video today on reloading costs by a guy in the US, posted two days ago.
He said you can't go into a store and buy primers, and you probably can't go into a store and buy powder. He now gets his primers and powder from auction sites. He showed some comparisons of prices, shown below.
It's not looking hopeful our shortages will end anytime soon...

----------


## 40mm

The next five years I reckon.

----------


## ebf

Competitive rock throwing here we come...

----------


## Beavis

Must be rough for retailers and wholesalers trying to stay in business

----------


## caberslash

Funny how brass has not seen a huge hike, as it's the most expensive component to manufacture yet also reusable.

Reckon most of the inflation is due to opportunistic hoarders/scalpers who have no intention of using it themselves.

Hope they get burned!

----------


## Pommy

The thrifty shoppers over in the US who aren't giving in to the scalpers aren't paying nearly as much as in your spreadsheet.

A bit like buying 143 ELD-X over here. Pay silly money on TM - or just wait and get them at retail, as and when they come back into stock... Only they get re-stocked far more frequently over there.

----------


## Cigar

The guy said there is still quite a bit of brass in the shops, and you can still get projectiles, but 6.5 cm ammo is scarce.
We are probably better off for powder being close to the ADI factory, but I assume most of our primers come from the US, and even at the shops here primer prices are up over 50%

----------


## Nathan F

AT the 25 -30 deer I shoot a year Im good for at least 15 years  :Have A Nice Day:

----------


## Butch73

Gotta feel for the importer/wholesalers like Steves wholesale. Hard to make any money when you have no stock to sell and your supplier or shipping company delays your delivery. We need to be ready to pay higher margins to them in the short term to keep them in business. Hopefully things normalise sooner than we expect

----------


## tetawa

> The thrifty shoppers over in the US who aren't giving in to the scalpers aren't paying nearly as much as in your spreadsheet.
> 
> A bit like buying 143 ELD-X over here. Pay silly money on TM - or just wait and get them at retail, as and when they come back into stock... Only they get re-stocked far more frequently over there.


Packet went for 3 hundie on T/M last night, will be a few more being offered me thinks. Maybe selling 6.5 cal in rifles is going to get harder.

----------


## outdoorlad

Was in a H&F recently and they had 2 tikka 6.5PRC on the rack, sales guy starts in about how great they are so I ask have you got any ammo for them…..”ah no” when will you some “ah not this year he begrudgingly said” Good luck selling those rifles then!

----------


## DBD

I see some desperate fella paid $300 for a box of 143eldx on TM, hope he has powder and primers sorted. It's a bit sad that there are guys who managed to get some in the last delivery only to sell it on for a bit of a gain, why not just pass it on at retail. My reloading has shrunk down to 1 caliber only but can safely say I'm sorted for 900 rounds  :Thumbsup:

----------


## stagstalker

> I see some desperate fella paid $300 for a box of 143eldx on TM, hope he has powder and primers sorted. It's a bit sad that there are guys who managed to get some in the last delivery only to sell it on for a bit of a gain, why not just pass it on at retail. My reloading has shrunk down to 1 caliber only but can safely say I'm sorted for 900 rounds


I reckon it’s shit alright. We are all in the same boat so if you don’t need them then just move them on for RRP? Opportunity for a dollar making people rip off their fellow hunters and shooters..

----------


## 25 /08 IMP

> I reckon its shit alright. We are all in the same boat so if you dont need them then just move them on for RRP? Opportunity for a dollar making people rip off their fellow hunters and shooters..


Yip there is alot of A holes out there.
If I have components that others use and need and I have spare I always pass on at what I paid. 

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

----------


## kiwi-adam

The problem isn't solely just the scalpers though. Equal blame falls on people willing to pay that much.
I get people get desperate, but if they werent willing to pay so much, people couldn't sell for that much.
Take for example the many auctions for 143gr eld-x that sky rocket to $300, the only people driving up that price are bidders...

Off topic, but same issue with house prices. They are only high, because buyers are willing to pay that much, the excuse being, if I am not willing to spend that much, someone else will buy it and I will miss out...

----------


## Cigar

But with houses, buyers are expecting prices to keep increasing in the future, so it’s also a case of “if I don’t buy now I’ll have to pay more later” or “I’ll make money from buying now and selling later”.
Which are also possibilities with 6.5mm projectiles, but much less likely!

----------


## Beetroot

> The problem isn't solely just the scalpers though. Equal blame falls on people willing to pay that much.
> I get people get desperate, but if they werent willing to pay so much, people couldn't sell for that much.
> Take for example the many auctions for 143gr eld-x that sky rocket to $300, the only people driving up that price are bidders...
> 
> Off topic, but same issue with house prices. They are only high, because buyers are willing to pay that much, the excuse being, if I am not willing to spend that much, someone else will buy it and I will miss out...


To be fair for the average hunter 100 projectiles will last them a very long time so it's probably worth paying stupid prices for, especially if going to a different bullet means you need to do new load development.
As a competetion shooter theres no way in hell I'm paying those prices, when you go through 70-100 rounds in a single match, if you don't have a good stock already you are basically screwed.

I unfortunately only shoot 6.5mm's, which seems like is the most popular calibre for at the moment but I don't see the other calibres being any better (for any match bullet I'd want to shoot anyway).
6mm, 7mm and 30cal Hornady and Berger bullets sell out just as quick as 6.5mm, for hunting bullets theres more choice but a lot of stuff is still sold out.

----------


## outdoorlad

Get a 270 there’s heaps of good projectiles around for them.. :Thumbsup:

----------


## akaroa1

You could shoot cast lead
Scrap is usually free

Trouble is Black Powder is all out of stock now as well in the South Island

An now someone will say " you can make your  own black powder "
Like I have time to do that !

----------


## Russian 22.

Cindy is making us JAFA's save our ammo as most can't shoot or haven't done so for months.

----------


## Micky Duck

> You could shoot cast lead
> Scrap is usually free
> 
> Trouble is Black Powder is all out of stock now as well in the South Island
> 
> An now someone will say " you can make your  own black powder "
> Like I have time to do that !


call in and see me next time you coming past...I will give you some home rolled to try...

----------


## Cyclops

> To be fair for the average hunter 100 projectiles will last them a very long time so it's probably worth paying stupid prices for, especially if going to a different bullet means you need to do new load development.
> As a competetion shooter theres no way in hell I'm paying those prices, when you go through 70-100 rounds in a single match, if you don't have a good stock already you are basically screwed.


I'm also a competition target shooter, firing 1500-2400 rounds a season. 
In my first season I ran out of my preferred projectile mid-season. 
Since I've always tried to have enough components at the start of the season to be able to get to the finish. 
In fact in some component, primers and projectiles I may have enough for several seasons as I buy in bulk to get a better price. 
I've been able to help some club mates out at the prices I've paid for components. 

Some shooters can't/won't/didn't think ahead to ensure that they can load enough to see them through this shortage. 
Now some are paying whatever it takes to get what they want or need. That's the free market in action. 

Perhaps more people will learn to plan ahead in the future.

If you don't want to pay current prices then don't. It's your choice. Don't complain when others do.

----------


## Mackattack

> Was in a H&F recently and they had 2 tikka 6.5PRC on the rack, sales guy starts in about how great they are so I ask have you got any ammo for them…..”ah no” when will you some “ah not this year he begrudgingly said” Good luck selling those rifles then!


As long as they don't try and sell them to a newby who has no idea about how hard it is to get ammo for them atm

----------


## akaroa1

> call in and see me next time you coming past...I will give you some home rolled to try...


 @mickey Duck I'm planning a trip to waimate in two weekends to meet @Tentman and make some smoke and noise 
Will have some tonnage of old guns on board to scare the roo's with

----------


## veitnamcam

> But with houses, buyers are expecting prices to keep increasing in the future, so its also a case of if I dont buy now Ill have to pay more later or Ill make money from buying now and selling later.
> Which are also possibilities with 6.5mm projectiles, but much less likely!


Thats about to change big time......lets hope we dont see a lot of new home owners in negative equity in the near future .

----------


## 7mmwsm

> Cindy is making us JAFA's save our ammo as most can't shoot or haven't done so for months.


There's been more shooting going on in Auckland lately than anywhere else around the country.
Well according to the "propaganda box" anyway.

----------


## Micky Duck

> Thats about to change big time......lets hope we dont see a lot of new home owners in negative equity in the near future .


how so??? what dramatic price crash is your crystal ball showing????

----------


## mikee

> Thats about to change big time......lets hope we dont see a lot of new home owners in negative equity in the near future .


I think you are correct, especially as NZ'ers seem to like operating their lives generally on credit rather than Pay as you go. A lot of people seem to have their house regularly revalued (always goes up ) so that they can further extend their borrowing to have all the finer things in life. 

When that is combined with people mortgaging themselves right up the WaZoo just to get a place then doing the above every few years its a reciepe for a hard fall later when eventually the Piper needs repayment.
My folks taught me the only thing you borrow for is the house so I amrather  "old school". I get a lot of shit from mates cause I won't buy anything unless I can pay cash in full and upfront. While it has bitten me badly once doing this (and you know who you are!!) at least I sleep every night with out worrying about repayments and such. 

Sadly I think if interest rates go up a few percent when combined with cost of living and Covid, the end results on peoples lives/lifestyles are going to smart a bit for a while

----------


## Micky Duck

very pleased we managed to fix repayments recently....give us 5 years of breathing space....and hope like heck by year four have better idea of whats ahead.

----------


## TeRei

> I think you are correct, especially as NZ'ers seem to like operating their lives generally on credit rather than Pay as you go. A lot of people seem to have their house regularly revalued (always goes up ) so that they can further extend their borrowing to have all the finer things in life. 
> 
> When that is combined with people mortgaging themselves right up the WaZoo just to get a place then doing the above every few years its a reciepe for a hard fall later when eventually the Piper needs repayment.
> My folks taught me the only thing you borrow for is the house so I amrather  "old school". I get a lot of shit from mates cause I won't buy anything unless I can pay cash in full and upfront. While it has bitten me badly once doing this (and you know who you are!!) at least I sleep every night with out worrying about repayments and such. 
> 
> Sadly I think if interest rates go up a few percent when combined with cost of living and Covid, the end results on peoples lives/lifestyles are going to smart a bit for a while


No treats for the beloved kuri. Sad. LOL. Unfortunately many NZ'ers are going to find out about real world maths. USA'S biggest rebuy company has folded that operation because the economics no longer stack up.

----------


## bumblefoot

I did a bit of a stock up on 223 and 308 factory ammo. I didn't go full on prepper mode, just enough so that I could still hunt (don't use much ammo for that) as the Buffalo 223 hasn't been available in Taranaki for a few months. But I did feel guilty doing it; even though it was only about 100 rounds of each. I know that if the Buffalo and Sako ammo runs out I have to go through all the hassle of sighting in again etc, and that just uses up more ammo!

----------


## mikee

> No treats for the beloved kuri. Sad. LOL. Unfortunately many NZ'ers are going to find out about real world maths. USA'S biggest rebuy company has folded that operation because the economics no longer stack up.


The pooches get plenty of treats, live inside and well exercised :Grin:  Have you seen the price of good dog food, gone up with a wallop lately!

I stocked up before the "great component famine " and have enough to last maybe 12 months at current consumption (or rest of my life if only used for hunting) and more on order to replenish

----------


## XR500

I would take component shortage one step further, and have a look around the house at anything that may need replacing in the next year or so (fridge/freezer/washing machine etc) and have a plan. Availability of all sorts of shirt appears going from bad to worse

----------


## longshot

There is no denying that there is less of it coming into the country and that what is coming in is costing more to bring in,  but I also wonder how much the hoarding factor is contributing,  About a month ago I bought some hornady 150gn rn for something close to the old price (about $70 from memory) developed a load for such occasional use that the remainder of the packet will probably last 18 months or more.  I recently watchlisted a packet of the same projectiles on tardeme.  I planned to buy them if the price remained at bargain levels.  They went for $186.

In the meantime they are still showing as available from Reloaders and Gunworks for $75 and $72 respectively.

----------


## TeRei

> The pooches get plenty of treats, live inside and well exercised Have you seen the price of good dog food, gone up with a wallop lately!
> 
> I stocked up before the "great component famine " and have enough to last maybe 12 months at current consumption (or rest of my life if only used for hunting) and more on order to replenish


Go into K9 Products in Whakatu Hastings and see the massive extensive range of products they sell for dog tucker. Amazing. Been slaying hares. Skin following day . Freezer for week and cut in1/2 for each dog. They love it.

----------


## 7mmwsm

Was in Gun City Hamilton today.
They have thousands of these in stock if anyone is interested.
And heaps of primers.

----------


## Cigar

> Attachment 183307
> Was in Gun City Hamilton today.
> They have thousands of these in stock if anyone is interested.
> And heaps of primers.


Did they have standard LR primers?
The website reckons no LR and only a few LR magnums (trays of 100 in stock but no boxes of 1000)

----------


## 7mmwsm

> Did they have standard LR primers?
> The website reckons no LR and only a few LR magnums (trays of 100 in stock but no boxes of 1000)


Sorry I didn't actually check to see what they were. But there were probably twenty or thirty thousand, so I would expect so.
Give them a ring.

----------


## johnd

@Cigar I have a box of CCI 250's I would trade for standards if thats what you need.

----------


## Cigar

Thanks for the offer  @johnd but Im okay for primers.
I know a few people are having trouble getting hold of some, and I was interested to see if what was actually in the shop matched what the website said.

----------


## akaroa1

I have these to sell or trade if they get someone going due to shortages
Two are full unopened
One RL25 is very nearly full

I doubt I will ever be building another over bore got rod modern rifle

----------


## NewbieZAR

> Attachment 183307
> Was in Gun City Hamilton today.
> They have thousands of these in stock if anyone is interested.
> And heaps of primers.


i have a good stash of these for the 22 250 and the 22 250AI, damn they've gone up too. used to be $25 per 100

----------


## Steelisreal

> i have a good stash of these for the 22 250 and the 22 250AI, damn they've gone up too. used to be $25 per 100


They're available in stock at Gunworks and Reloaders for considerably less (than the picture above)...

----------


## 7mmwsm

> They're available in stock at Gunworks and Reloaders for considerably less (than the picture above)...


How much less? 
I didn't think $40 was to bad these days.

----------


## Woody

Intel this arfo. Steves Wholesale expe ting 20tonnes later this month. Likely in retail before xmas.

----------


## T.FOYE

Unless another company outbids him on his container. Thats whats been happening to all companies. The shipping companies are causing chaos across the board

----------


## outdoorlad

> Intel this arfo. Steves Wholesale expe ting 20tonnes later this month. Likely in retail before xmas.


Powder or Projectiles?

----------


## Cigar

> Powder or Projectiles?


Their website or Facebook page said they are expecting a shipment of ADI powder in early December, dunno if that's what Woody is referring too though.

----------


## SkiHunt

Tried to buy some powder on Tardme the last few days, not at this price though.

----------


## Bert 71

Bet Jacinda's Mongrel Mob mates have a good stock of ammo!

----------


## Frogfeatures

Guncity are expecting a shipment of ADI powder late this month.

----------


## JohnDuxbury

my backup for this situation is a rifle I load with ap70,  i have enough power for 700 rounds left and i cant find any .44 mag bullets anywhere, but i can cast my own lead bullets too
i think i can do the same with a .303 as well, i should get mold. cheaper than a box of jacketed bullets.

----------


## longshot

@JohnDuxbury

Last time I was in Hunting and Outdoor supplies in Carterton they had about five boxes of Hornady 240 xtp.  This would have been about three - four weeks ago.

----------


## Tim Dicko

its a sad future for a while. prs shooting in the states cant be helping. lots of people doing huge amounts. factory ammunition is obviously selling in large volume as well.

----------


## Beavis

I see some of the popular Hornady projectiles are in stock at Midway and Brownells. ELD M's etc. Might be a sign of supply catching up I dunno.

----------


## Beetroot

> I see some of the popular Hornady projectiles are in stock at Midway and Brownells. ELD M's etc. Might be a sign of supply catching up I dunno.


US forums have been saying components are much more available now and factory ammo coming back down in price.
Heres hoping we are seeing the back end of this BS.

----------


## 7mmsaum

> US forums have been saying components are much more available now and factory ammo coming back down in price.
> Heres hoping we are seeing the back end of this BS.


Not likely 

We are going to feel the pinch for another 12 months or more 

Legitimate firearms users and Hoarders in NZ can easily  dry up the next 4 shipments.

----------


## ariki

And ammo prices will never come down our great big stores like muppet and fisting
and Gunshitty will set the price.

----------


## Beavis

> Not likely 
> 
> We are going to feel the pinch for another 12 months or more 
> 
> Legitimate firearms users and Hoarders in NZ can easily  dry up the next 4 shipments.


Yup, the projectile section of trademe is both depressing and hilarious. People scrapping over crumbs.

----------


## Beetroot

> Not likely 
> 
> We are going to feel the pinch for another 12 months or more 
> 
> Legitimate firearms users and Hoarders in NZ can easily  dry up the next 4 shipments.


If the shipments keep getting delayed then this cou keep dragging on fora long time, but it'd be due to shipping rather than availability.

If that happens I'll just be buying stuff from overseas, the US prices are low enough to warrant paying comparatively high shipping prices.

----------


## grandpamac

Greetings All,
As a card carrying and Government certified old fudd my needs for hunting ammunition are modest. A quick check of stocks suggests that the need for loading any more in the near future can probably be put of for some time. Ammunition stocks for my limited target shooting is lower but I have kept up stocks of components for these which should suffice.
These shortages will end, perhaps sooner than some of the doomsayers are suggesting. Once this occurs my suggestion to you all is to do some planning on what your needs are for 12 months or so and make sure that component stock do not fall below this point. Some rationalisation may be needed. Try to select two or at the most 3 powders that suit most of your rifles. For me, at the moment, these are AR2206H and AR2209. They might not be the absolute best but very good is still better than nothing at all. Try and have resonable stocks of primers. An understudy load for some of your rifles using earlier type projectiles is worth considering. These are often still available when the whizzo modern projectiles have run out. If these shoot close to your preferred hunting load they can be used when the flashy pills are not needed.
Finally these cyclic shortages are likely to continue, largely due to the fragile state of democracy in the US. I expect the next one early in 2003. Be ready.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## Cyclops

> Greetings All,
> Finally these cyclic shortages are likely to continue, largely due to the fragile state of democracy in the US. I expect the next one early in *2003*. Be ready.
> Regards Grandpamac.


Back to the future is it @grandpamac? Did you mean 2023?

I agree with what you're written. 
The prudent shooter plans ahead and builds up sufficient components for their use.

----------


## grandpamac

> Back to the future is it @grandpamac? Did you mean 2023?
> 
> I agree with what you're written. 
> The prudent shooter plans ahead and builds up sufficient components for their use.


Buggar,
Grandpabrain strikes again. Seems to happen mostly with dates. Need to be extra careful with powder.
Grandpamac.

----------


## Spooner

Just another take on this guys. Raw material costs and futures for the likes of copper, lead and bronze have all gone through the roof. Rapid money printing globally has also seen the real value of money drop, but that’s an economics lesson I don’t want to go in for. My best guess is 30% increase in many goods over the next 3-5 years. That’s before any greed or skullduggery. Also it tends to come by boat. Shipping is up to 8 times more expensive than it was 18 months ago!

----------


## ilikepie

on that note : from Gunworks FB post 




> ADI powder update - ADI wasn't picked up from the Australian port as planned so its looking more like Jan/Feb next year we will see it

----------


## grandpamac

Greetings again,
Was just looking at some of the suppliers websites. Seems to be plenty of .22 and .308 projectiles. Might be best to have some options for these in our gun cupboard, say a .223 and a .308. Both can be loaded with BM 8208 or AR 2206H. Keeps some options open.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## Cyclops

> Greetings again,
> Was just looking at some of the suppliers websites. Seems to be plenty of .22 and .308 projectiles. Might be best to have some options for these in our gun cupboard, say a .223 and a .308. Both can be loaded with BM 8208 or AR 2206H. Keeps some options open.
> Regards Grandpamac.


Have you been looking in my safes?
I've got .223, .308 with plenty of projectiles, powder and enough primers - for now. 
Also a spare .223 barrel and 4 .308 barrels. 

Also a couple of 22LR with a little over of 4000 rounds, and other stuff.

----------


## Happy Jack

One reason I went with a 22-250

----------


## Beavis

Copied from face book

UPDATE!

Well the good and the bad of it team, trying times and I feel for the team at Steve's Wholesale.
Hang in there team we'll get through this bollocks


Important Shipping Update
Our ADI Gunpowder Container was turned away at the port today and not loaded on the booked sailing. We don't know why just yet but it's now a waiting game for another ship, hopefully in a few weeks' time.  Looking like our delivery around NZ will be North Island later in Jan and South Island in Feb 2022..

Some good news is our 40' container of Hornady etc is released and is waiting to be trucked down to WGTN.. hope to be packing orders from Monday onwards. [Note all the USA supplied gunpowders missed this container]

More good news because we need it... Hornady is suppling us a record quantity of goods for a Feb 2022 arrival here... we have now booked 2 x 40' cans to cover the large volume of goods coming including most of our brands and a good amount of USA-made gunpowders except Alliant. There will be plenty of 7mm08, 6.5 ELD-M Match projectiles, 308 American Whitetail, 6.5 PRC in Match ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor, 44 Mag, .22 Magnum, 300WSM, 7mmMag limited, 17HMR limited.

Everyone try and have a Christmas holiday to put 2021 behind us. We will be open most trading days over the holidays.

cheers
Steve

----------


## grandpamac

> Have you been looking in my safes?
> I've got .223, .308 with plenty of projectiles, powder and enough primers - for now. 
> Also a spare .223 barrel and 4 .308 barrels. 
> 
> Also a couple of 22LR with a little over of 4000 rounds, and other stuff.


Greetings Cyclops,
A lot of safes look like ours. The .223 and .308 are pretty hard to ignore unless you are really determined. Plentiful brass and projectiles, can use a broad range of powders and between them use the two most common primers. Plus they will deal with any rifle hunting need in New Zealand. Those two with a .22 RF pretty well do it all and we honestly do not need anything else. Fortunately need has nothing to do with the rifles we buy and enjoy.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## Boxton

Agree  @grandpamac
Which is why next to the 7mm's
I have a 222 a .303(well lots of them tbh) and .577 and 450/577cal....and just in case 9.3mm...lol
Variety is the spice of life
And you never know when the need may arise

----------


## marky123

I heard a story that Alliant won't load containers with other powder manufacturers' goods.

----------


## veitnamcam

Yay 6.5 ammo.

----------


## small_caliber

Does anyone bring Accurate powder into New Zealand?

----------


## Cigar

Latest update from ADI...
Propellant Update

Dear Sporting Shooters,

It has been quite some time since our last propellant update.

We would like to assure you, the factory continues to run at maximum capacity, 24 hours a day, 5 days a week, and were supplying as much propellant to the market as possible. Any difficulty in accessing our propellants is due to unprecedented demand and not a reduction in manufacturing or supply to the Australian market.

Below is an update on our propellants and the popularity/frequency of manufacture for each. 

AR2208, AR2209  These propellants will be available in both 1kg and 4kg bottles for the foreseeable future and we have these propellants represented through the different stages of manufacture almost constantly.

AR2206(H), AR2213SC, AR2217  Is typically made multiple times a year. AR2206(H) will be available in both 1kg and 4kg bottles, while AR2213SC and AR2217 will be available in 1kg

AR2225, AR2218  Our two slowest burning propellants represent only a small amount of the propellant we release to the market every year. Stocks of AR2218 in 4kg and AR2225 in 1kg should last for some time and we plan on packing some AR2218 in 1kg later in 2022.

To read more about our propellant update please visit our ADI World Class website.

----------


## Driverman

ADI are no longer making pistol and shotgun powder APS for the foreseeable future ,thats a bloody shame.

----------


## zimmer

Full update -


And their communication on APS from March 2021

----------


## Squirrel

Doh! I was tinkering with aps as a replacement for trailboss, thinking it would be around longer.   What a shame.

----------


## Beavis

> Does anyone bring Accurate powder into New Zealand?


Steve's Wholesale but I don't think they've ever bought any in.

----------


## stagstalker

Quoted from a conversation between a mate and someone through facebook:

Managed to pick up 400 162s this morning from various shops around the country, just about triple my money on selling in a weeks time

That might not be the genuine intent of the individual and they could  simply just be pointing out if I wanted too. I have no doubt people are doing this though just the thought of it pisses me off

----------


## 25 /08 IMP

> Quoted from a conversation between a mate and someone through facebook:
> 
> Managed to pick up 400 162s this morning from various shops around the country, just about triple my money on selling in a weeks time
> 
> That might not be the genuine intent of the individual and they could  simply just be pointing out if I wanted too. I have no doubt people are doing this though just the thought of it pisses me off


Only one word "Wanker"

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

----------


## Fisherman

> Only one word "Wanker"
> 
> Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk


Everyone's doing it with houses.

----------


## Micky Duck

> Everyone's doing it with houses.


wanker.......s ........

----------


## erniec

> Everyone's doing it with houses.


And that is the truth.

----------


## grandpamac

> Full update -
> Attachment 186091
> 
> And their communication on APS from March 2021
> Attachment 186092


Greetings All,
Was interested to see that ADI seem to have gone from 500 gram bottles to 1 kg bottles. BM 8208 I got recently was in a 1 kg bottle. It will certainly help keeping up with lot numbers but someone using a .222 is going to take a long time to get to the bottom of a 1 kg pot.
GPM.

----------


## Cigar

Holy crap!
Two and a half years ago I bought 1000 Fed LR primers for $90.
Six months ago they cost me $139.
Today I see them advertised for $199 (retail, not a TM price gouger)!

----------


## 7mm Rem Mag

Just got a call from gunworks, my box of 7mm 162g ELDX has arrived $90 odd bucks yipee

----------


## Mathias

> Just got a call from gunworks, my box of 7mm 162g ELDX has arrived $90 odd bucks yipee


Yeah, I just picked up my 147gr ELD-M for $92 from them today.

----------


## 7mm Rem Mag

They said only half of what they expected came

----------


## stagstalker

> They said only half of what they expected came


Got my box from workshop innovation and Robert said he only got two boxes.. tough times alright

----------


## 7mm Rem Mag

> Got my box from workshop innovation and Robert said he only got two boxes.. tough times alright


Yeah I think we were the lucky ones. Mine was $98 which is bloody good compared to what they are going for on trade me.

----------


## Kelton

My local had 147s for $113 their not the cheapest

----------


## TeRei

Can remember the old Sika Show. Rock up and buy heaps of components. Needed arms like a gorilla to walk out with your purchases but is surely made the journey to Taupo worth while. But bad news Land Transport are mandating a 80km speed limit for the whole of Taupo road.It took them over 40 years to rectify their moronic decision to change the give way rule in 1974. You wonder what those clowns are on and do all day. FITH.

----------


## Beetroot

> Can remember the old Sika Show. Rock up and buy heaps of components. Needed arms like a gorilla to walk out with your purchases but is surely made the journey to Taupo worth while. But bad news Land Transport are mandating a 80km speed limit for the whole of Taupo road.It took them over 40 years to rectify their moronic decision to change the give way rule in 1974. You wonder what those clowns are on and do all day. FITH.


I don't get why they are making it 80kph.
The road from Tokoroa to Turangi is an excellent road, had heaps of work done to it over the years.
Other than the very narrow section after Taupo there is no reason for that road not to be 100kph.

This country is going to shit slowly but surely.

----------


## Got-ya

> I don't get why they are making it 80kph.
> The road from Tokoroa to Turangi is an excellent road, had heaps of work done to it over the years.
> Other than the very narrow section after Taupo there is no reason for that road not to be 100kph.
> 
> This country is going to shit slowly but surely.



Money and the saving of it, very few of these reduced speed limits that are coming in all around the place are about safety. It's about the lack of investment in our roads which is making them unsafe. They don't have the money to maintain the roads at the current speed limit so its cheaper and easier to just reduce it.

----------


## striker

> I don't get why they are making it 80kph.
> The road from Tokoroa to Turangi is an excellent road, had heaps of work done to it over the years.
> Other than the very narrow section after Taupo there is no reason for that road not to be 100kph.
> 
> This country is going to shit slowly but surely.


The cambers and road layout between SH1 you mention might be correct, but the surface is far substandard and thats coming as a truckie doing up to 40 runs a week on that section of road
SH3 down to the Naki is the same its rattle shake bang and roll.
the pressure waves are the worst, potholes filled with hot or cold mix so they blend in the dark/shadows and when hit they will just heave a 50ton unit over the road.
some of the are so bad we P1 message them

----------


## Got-ya

Snap!, lack of maintenance.

----------


## Cyclops

We'd all like more maintenance on our roads. 

How would you like to fund that?
Increased fuel taxes and increased RUC?
Increased PAYE or increased property rates?
 @striker's comments suggest that the damage is caused by heavier vehicle traffic. Should they pay higher RUC which will be passed onto consumers?

Remember EVs aren't paying RUC (at present) and don't pay fuel taxes. 

We're often quick to identify the problem, slower to help fund the cure.

----------


## XR500

Its not the pavement thats the problem. Its gonna fail sure as night follows day, cause the road transport lobby got govt to permit trucks to go to 55Tonne, instead of remain at 44 tonne.

Our roading design post WWII has never factored in 55 tonne combined weights. So the sub base, base course and top course are not suficiently strong enough to resist deformation from those heavy axles being passed down through the pavement.

They closed the Desert road a year ago during the nights, to apply magic asphaltic concrete pavements, but did bugger all to the undedrlying base course: result, fucked sections of new pavement in under six months. Roads weeping water cause they never addressed the base issue. Old roading engineers maxum "Dirt plus water = mud".

One 'H' rated truck and trailer does as much damage as 8000 passes of a 1500kg car. And thats only to the pavement. cars don't have any meaningful impact on Basecourse structures. Trucks do.

----------


## striker

> We'd all like more maintenance on our roads. 
> 
> How would you like to fund that?
> Increased fuel taxes and increased RUC?
> Increased PAYE or increased property rates?
>  @striker's comments suggest that the damage is caused by heavier vehicle traffic. Should they pay higher RUC which will be passed onto consumers?
> 
> Remember EVs aren't paying RUC (at present) and don't pay fuel taxes. 
> 
> We're often quick to identify the problem, slower to help fund the cure.


the heavier units do less damage, higher productivity for less trips, more axles at the same or lower weigh per axle that a 46ton general access truck weighs. and we pay thru the nose for it too.
you really need to follow the funding, and where it ends up,  the current cost of RUC and fuel excise is more than enough to fund world class roads.
especially when it goes in to the national land transport fund and pays for competing rail, cycle ways at say 1mil per km, the new ferries come under too so Im told as they are considered SH1
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/planning-an...bout-the-nltp/

----------


## striker

> Its not the pavement thats the problem. Its gonna fail sure as night follows day, cause the road transport lobby got govt to permit trucks to go to 55Tonne, instead of remain at 44 tonne.
> 
> Our roading design post WWII has never factored in 55 tonne combined weights. So the sub base, base course and top course are not suficiently strong enough to resist deformation from those heavy axles being passed down through the pavement.
> 
> They closed the Desert road a year ago during the nights, to apply magic asphaltic concrete pavements, but did bugger all to the undedrlying base course: result, fucked sections of new pavement in under six months. Roads weeping water cause they never addressed the base issue. Old roading engineers maxum "Dirt plus water = mud".
> 
> One 'H' rated truck and trailer does as much damage as 8000 passes of a 1500kg car. And thats only to the pavement. cars don't have any meaningful impact on Basecourse structures. Trucks do.


Might as well get used to it, there is less and less drivers coming thru the system, long hours, shit pay, lack of appreciation are all things turning guys and gals away from the industry.
I was talking to  one of the nzta hpmv engineers at fielddays and they are/were processing permits to run up to 25m long and 72ton

----------


## Cyclops

> the heavier units do less damage, higher productivity for less trips, more axles at the same or lower weigh per axle that a 46ton general access truck weighs. and we pay thru the nose for it too.
> you really need to follow the funding, and where it ends up,  the current cost of RUC and fuel excise is more than enough to fund world class roads.
> especially when it goes in to the national land transport fund and pays for competing rail, cycle ways at say 1mil per km, the new ferries come under too so Im told as they are considered SH1
> https://www.nzta.govt.nz/planning-an...bout-the-nltp/


I do know where the funding is from and where it goes. 
I'm an elected councilor and have served on our Regional Land Transport Committee. 

I can show you roads that deteriorate daily during the dairy season due to HPV milk tankers that don't get worse through the winter. 
HPV heavy transport vehicles are visibly damaging roads that were never built for them, but have been approved for them. 

I disagree that the rate of fuel excise and RUC is enough to fund our roading network. It isn't and it is reducing in proportion to the costs.

I know what it costs our council to fund our share of our local roading costs. 
As a council we put in extra ratepayer funds above what receive a FAR rate for from Waka Kotahi (NZTA) to try to keep up with the maintenance. 


More funding is required. Where should it come from?
General taxation, paye & business taxes, ratepayers or increased RUC?

----------


## striker

> I do know where the funding is from and where it goes. 
> I'm an elected councilor and have served on our Regional Land Transport Committee. 
> 
> I can show you roads that deteriorate daily during the dairy season due to HPV milk tankers that don't get worse through the winter. 
> HPV heavy transport vehicles are visibly damaging roads that were never built for them, but have been approved for them. 
> 
> I disagree that the rate of fuel excise and RUC is enough to fund our roading network. It isn't and it is reducing in proportion to the costs.
> 
> I know what it costs our council to fund our share of our local roading costs. 
> ...


Simple solutions:
#1 tax us more, via any taxation method, general pop whinges moans about cost when it gets passed on, and it will be passed on.

#2 we all go back to the so called magical 44 ton, more truck trips for less productivity, more emissions, we pay less RUC (win for truckies) and the gen pop then complains about how many more trucks are on the road than before to do the same job,
gen pop then complains how long it takes to get something delivered as lack of capacity and lack of drivers to do the job
Overnight delivery, Good luck try next week or month.

----------


## XR500

Was hunting the Kaimanawas last week. Looking down on the Desert road at 11pm: a solid line of Heavy good vehicles sidelights going north AND south. Solution: rail. And get used to stuff turning up in a few days, not overnight. Plan for it and its not an imposition.

----------


## charliehorse

And in other news there's a component shortage. Head on over to the off topic section lads :Thumbsup:

----------


## mikee

> And in other news there's a component shortage. Head on over to the off topic section lads


I know and I has just done the unthinkable..............brought a 308, so at least I can keep shooting at reasonable cost until all my 6.5 projectiles on order arrive.

----------


## bigbear

Thinking about doing the same thing @mikee. Sell the 7mm08 and go back to a 308 alot more factory ammo on the shelf. 
Am actually surprised there aren't a lot more guns for sale due to lack of ammo and reloading components

----------


## Beetroot

> Snap!, lack of maintenance.


Our roads are built poorly from the begining, lack of maintenance isn't the problem.

When the Waikato expressway between Hampton downs and Te Kauwhata was in construction they opened up a newly completed section to traffic to start working on the other side, literally the first day it was opened pot holes occured everywhere (passed 3 cars that where changing tyres) and a whole big enough to swallow a car popped up.
I've seen countless road work sights that haven't even been sealed yet where potholes are popping up, even when the public isn't allowed to drive on it.

I've seen first hand a council project that blew the budget massively due to the incompetence of consultants they paid to do their job and there be absolutely no re-course for those people and a massive cost to the rate payer.

Like everything we plebs pay through the nose for everything, get a crap product or service, and have to be thankful for the experience.

----------


## Cordite

> Funny how brass has not seen a huge hike, as it's the most expensive component to manufacture yet also reusable.
> 
> Reckon most of the inflation is due to opportunistic hoarders/scalpers who have no intention of using it themselves.
> 
> Hope they get burned!


Sitting in their cellars waiting for the apocalypse, they'll not feel burned for a long time.

----------


## grandpamac

> I know and I has just done the unthinkable..............brought a 308, so at least I can keep shooting at reasonable cost until all my 6.5 projectiles on order arrive.


Well done @mikee,
I already had a .308 (actually 4 if you count a couple of old target rifles). My current stocks of projectiles for my 6.5 are meagre but plentiful for the .308. Ditto powder. We should all own at least one .308 although I suppose a .30-06 would do in a pinch. Easy to load and shoots almost any projectile well. In case you are wondering my 4 are staying exactly where they are.
Regards Grandpamac.

----------


## bumblefoot

> Our roads are built poorly from the begining, lack of maintenance isn't the problem. When the Waikato expressway between Hampton downs and Te Kauwhata was in construction they opened up a newly completed section to traffic to start working on the other side, literally the first day it was opened pot holes occured everywhere (passed 3 cars that where changing tyres) and a whole big enough to swallow a car popped up.
> I've seen countless road work sights that haven't even been sealed yet where potholes are popping up, even when the public isn't allowed to drive on it. I've seen first hand a council project that blew the budget massively due to the incompetence of consultants they paid to do their job and there be absolutely no re-course for those people and a massive cost to the rate payer. Like everything we plebs pay through the nose for everything, get a crap product or service, and have to be thankful for the experience.


 @Beetroot As an aside... I was talking to the Chinese owner of the chip shop the other day and he said that in China the company making/repairing a road has to stand guarantee for it for three years at least. He reckoned that is one reason why the roads are good. I'd say CCP would ensure that guarantee was enforced!  :Wink:

----------


## mikee

> Well done @mikee,
> I already had a .308 (actually 4 if you count a couple of old target rifles). My current stocks of projectiles for my 6.5 are meagre but plentiful for the .308. Ditto powder. We should all own at least one .308 although I suppose a .30-06 would do in a pinch. Easy to load and shoots almost any projectile well. In case you are wondering my 4 are staying exactly where they are.
> Regards Grandpamac.


Well @grandpamac 308 is my 3rd 30cal
My 6.5TCU and SAUM are currently out of projectiles pretty much so needed something to shoot lots and often hence the 308

----------


## Danger Mouse

> We'd all like more maintenance on our roads. 
> 
> How would you like to fund that?
> Increased fuel taxes and increased RUC?
> Increased PAYE or increased property rates?
>  @striker's comments suggest that the damage is caused by heavier vehicle traffic. Should they pay higher RUC which will be passed onto consumers?
> 
> Remember EVs aren't paying RUC (at present) and don't pay fuel taxes. 
> 
> We're often quick to identify the problem, slower to help fund the cure.


Easy. Stop diverting funds from fuel tax etc to other areas

----------


## Cyclops

> Easy. Stop diverting funds from fuel tax etc to other areas


Examples of diversions?

----------


## tetawa

> Examples of diversions?


Understand for many moons fuel, RUC and other associated taxes went into the consolidated fund, then redistributed from there to what was decided to be a worthy cause. Roading wasn't the only receiver.

----------


## Cyclops

> Understand for many moons fuel, RUC and other associated taxes went into the consolidated fund, then redistributed from there to what was decided to be a worthy cause. Roading wasn't the only receiver.


It hasn't been that way for some time. What happened sometime in the past isn't indicative of what happens today. 
Funds are not diverted today. The line is How land transport is funded.

*How you pay for land transport*
All vehicles travelling on public roads contribute to the building, maintenance and operation of our land transport system by:
    paying PED or RUC
    being registered
    paying the licence fee, often called rego, at least annually.

Some vehicles contribute to specific roads by paying tolls. All fare-paying passengers on public transport contribute to the operation of public transport services.

The cost of building and maintaining local roads is shared between central government, through Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency, and local councils. Councils contribute to the cost of their land transport activities from rates and borrowing, in what is known as the local share. The cost of public transport, and walking and cycling facilities is also shared but state highways and road policing are entirely funded by Waka Kotahi NZ Transport Agency.

From time to time the Government decides to fund projects which are unable or unsuitable to be funded by charges to vehicle owners. For these, the Crown is able to direct additional funds through its usual budget processes.

----------


## Micky Duck

> @Beetroot As an aside... I was talking to the Chinese owner of the chip shop the other day and he said that in China the company making/repairing a road has to stand guarantee for it for three years at least. He reckoned that is one reason why the roads are good. I'd say CCP would ensure that guarantee was enforced!


maybe we should ask for the Chinamen to send us some reloading components???? they can start with container or three of the 55grn norinco FMJ projectiles please.

----------


## grandpamac

> It hasn't been that way for some time. What happened sometime in the past isn't indicative of what happens today. 
> Funds are not diverted today. The line is How land transport is funded.
> 
> *How you pay for land transport*
> All vehicles travelling on public roads contribute to the building, maintenance and operation of our land transport system by:
>     paying PED or RUC
>     being registered
>     paying the licence fee, often called rego, at least annually.
> 
> ...


Greetings Cyclops and all,
Thanks for that bit of info. I was not aware that there was a National Land Transport Fund but there you are. I do remember, many moons ago, that there was a road fund and there was a big fuss when it was abolished and the dosh went into the consolidated fund. Keith Holyoake (National) was the PM at the time. Things do go around in circles.
GPM.

----------


## JLF

In Argentina we are used to the scarcity of inputs. To complete, the gunpowder import company is handled by criminals, they buy gunpowder in bulk and divide it and put anything ... Years ago they brought and fractionated IMR and at the same time the gunpowder was decomposing ... terrified. For my part, I use gunpowder from military manufactures in my country, A19, which is what they use to load the 50 calibers ... it gives me good results in the .338

----------


## SPEARONZ

Any update on the Xmas shipment of Adi powders? 

Last I heard I had been left on a dock in the US? But the updates have gone quiet

----------


## Grasshoppa

Posted on Steves Wholesale FB last night

"ADI Gunpowder...our container has arrived off Auckland on the 8th January...and the ship is still waiting to dock. The latest update is the 4th February to unload. Sometime after that we will start delivery trips around NZ.
It's interesting that this useless government is assuring everyone that they are working closely with supply lines to keep goods flowing! That's just another blatant lie when ships can't dock now way before things really hit the fan.
It's no wonder shipping lines are avoiding NZ.
Steve"

----------


## johnd

Its not just an issue at NZ ports its world wide. Apparently there is some sort of virus that is slowing things down.

----------


## Tahr

> Posted on Steves Wholesale FB last night
> 
> "ADI Gunpowder...our container has arrived off Auckland on the 8th January...and the ship is still waiting to dock. The latest update is the 4th February to unload. Sometime after that we will start delivery trips around NZ.
> It's interesting that this useless government is assuring everyone that they are working closely with supply lines to keep goods flowing! That's just another blatant lie when ships can't dock now way before things really hit the fan.
> It's no wonder shipping lines are avoiding NZ.
> Steve"


I guess under the current situation there does need to be some prioritisation. Medical supplies, food, or gun powder? I wonder what percentage of NZers would rate the landing and distribution of gun powder as being important. Its contextual. Tough on small businesses like Steve's but hardly the end of the world.

----------


## mikee

From what i have witnessed. There are no priorities or queue jumping its just the mess of coping with the covid compliance (necessary) combined with general shortage of stuff including shipping lines /capacity to nz) and fact that inefficient public services like customs and mpi etc are even less efficient than usual

----------


## Cigar

> Posted on Steves Wholesale FB last night
> 
> "It's interesting that this useless government is assuring everyone that they are working closely with supply lines to keep *goods* flowing!"


Yes, but under this govt gunpowder isn't classed as goods, it's "bads"   :Psmiley:

----------


## Slug

I doubt it will be a full ship load of containers of gunpowder only, it will be mixed goods from the last few ports of call and doubt there will be selective container unloading, shuffling/stacking them aside onboard thus leaving the rest behind to return to sender.

----------


## SPEARONZ

Just glad its in the country as thats the hard part done, now hopefully my back order isnt at the bottom of the list

----------


## distant stalker

> Copied from face book
> 
> UPDATE!
> 
> Well the good and the bad of it team, trying times and I feel for the team at Steve's Wholesale.
> Hang in there team we'll get through this bollocks
> 
> 
> Important Shipping Update
> ...


Is this still the case r.e projectiles coming? Can't find this post on their FB page

----------


## Cyclops

> Is this still the case r.e projectiles coming? Can't find this post on their FB page


Steve's Wholesale NZ
Steve's Wholesale Ltd  14  February @18:11
Finally ADI Powder ship docks and gets here the next day. 
It's a big unpack of 8,000kgs of the good stuff.

----------


## Cigar

> Is this still the case r.e projectiles coming? Can't find this post on their FB page


In the comments section of the powder shipment post, they say the Hornady shipment is hopefully arriving 10th March.

----------


## 260R

ADI powder is being delivered now. Upper east coast, Bay of Plenty. Steve dropped mine of early this morning

----------


## witchcraft

Hi are you in retail, from Waihau Bay and after some 2217

----------


## 260R

Yes PM sent

----------


## Grasshoppa

Posted on Steves Wholesale FB last night

"ADI Gunpowder...our container has arrived off Auckland on the 8th January...and the ship is still waiting to dock. The latest update is the 4th February to unload. Sometime after that we will start delivery trips around NZ.
It's interesting that this useless government is assuring everyone that they are working closely with supply lines to keep goods flowing! That's just another blatant lie when ships can't dock now way before things really hit the fan.
It's no wonder shipping lines are avoiding NZ.
Steve"

----------


## johnd

Its not just an issue at NZ ports its world wide. Apparently there is some sort of virus that is slowing things down.

----------


## Tahr

> Posted on Steves Wholesale FB last night
> 
> "ADI Gunpowder...our container has arrived off Auckland on the 8th January...and the ship is still waiting to dock. The latest update is the 4th February to unload. Sometime after that we will start delivery trips around NZ.
> It's interesting that this useless government is assuring everyone that they are working closely with supply lines to keep goods flowing! That's just another blatant lie when ships can't dock now way before things really hit the fan.
> It's no wonder shipping lines are avoiding NZ.
> Steve"


I guess under the current situation there does need to be some prioritisation. Medical supplies, food, or gun powder? I wonder what percentage of NZers would rate the landing and distribution of gun powder as being important. Its contextual. Tough on small businesses like Steve's but hardly the end of the world.

----------


## mikee

From what i have witnessed. There are no priorities or queue jumping its just the mess of coping with the covid compliance (necessary) combined with general shortage of stuff including shipping lines /capacity to nz) and fact that inefficient public services like customs and mpi etc are even less efficient than usual

----------


## Cigar

> Posted on Steves Wholesale FB last night
> 
> "It's interesting that this useless government is assuring everyone that they are working closely with supply lines to keep *goods* flowing!"


Yes, but under this govt gunpowder isn't classed as goods, it's "bads"   :Psmiley:

----------


## Slug

I doubt it will be a full ship load of containers of gunpowder only, it will be mixed goods from the last few ports of call and doubt there will be selective container unloading, shuffling/stacking them aside onboard thus leaving the rest behind to return to sender.

----------


## SPEARONZ

Just glad its in the country as thats the hard part done, now hopefully my back order isnt at the bottom of the list

----------


## distant stalker

> Copied from face book
> 
> UPDATE!
> 
> Well the good and the bad of it team, trying times and I feel for the team at Steve's Wholesale.
> Hang in there team we'll get through this bollocks
> 
> 
> Important Shipping Update
> ...


Is this still the case r.e projectiles coming? Can't find this post on their FB page

----------


## Cyclops

> Is this still the case r.e projectiles coming? Can't find this post on their FB page


Steve's Wholesale NZ
Steve's Wholesale Ltd  14  February @18:11
Finally ADI Powder ship docks and gets here the next day. 
It's a big unpack of 8,000kgs of the good stuff.

----------


## Cigar

> Is this still the case r.e projectiles coming? Can't find this post on their FB page


In the comments section of the powder shipment post, they say the Hornady shipment is hopefully arriving 10th March.

----------


## 260R

ADI powder is being delivered now. Upper east coast, Bay of Plenty. Steve dropped mine of early this morning

----------


## witchcraft

Hi are you in retail, from Waihau Bay and after some 2217

----------


## 260R

Yes PM sent

----------

