# Firearms and Shooting > Firearms, Optics and Accessories >  Big Sevens... Which one for the 195 Berger.....?

## 300_BLK

The next build will be a 7mm of some description for long range hunting.

I'm a firm believer when deciding on what to build you start with the projectile / calibre then the cartridge chambered to suit said projectile.

So its the 7mm 195 Berger EOL and 175 ELD-X.

It will be based on a R700 long action as they have the largest mag box and lots of aftermarket parts.

The hard bit is the cartridge.

My initial thoughts are 7mm-300 Norma Magnum with a 30 deg shoulder AKA Long Range Hunter by @Swamplord. Brass looks easy but dies i'm not sure about due to a lack of knowledge.



This should net between 3200-3300 fps from a 26-28" bbl, which translates to a 1500m rifle (1600fps).

My question is: Will a RUM or STW or 28 Nosler or 7 LRM / Dakota / 7-375 R, 7mm-338 Lap 7mm-300WSM be easier due to dies and brass availability?

I already have a 338 Lap and 264 WM so this is a 'want' not a 'need'.

Cheers,

F.

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## puku

I don't think you will see enough speed out of a 7/300wsm. It is barely enough for 180s.
Your original idea sounds great,  but throat erosion will be a factor at those speeds

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## camo wsm

I like the idea of 28 nosler  :Thumbsup:

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## ChrisF

7mm Blaser , norma brass ,

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## Shootm

@Kiwi Greg would be a good man to talk to.

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## stug

7 RUM would be good, but you won't fit one in the magazine. Maybe if you extended the magazine a bit. When I had my 7 RUM I used the 180gr Berger hybrid. I had to single feed it, I hadn't extended the magazine. I got 3200 pretty easy with about 100gr US869. I got Greg Duley to rechamber it using his short throat reamer. 
If you want the most velocity I'd try the 7 superfatso from Greg Duley it is based off the 338 lapua and improved. The easiest will be 7RUM.

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## MSL

> 7 RUM would be good, but you won't fit one in the magazine. Maybe if you extended the magazine a bit. When I had my 7 RUM I used the 180gr Berger hybrid. I had to single feed it, I hadn't extended the magazine. I got 3200 pretty easy with about 100gr US869. I got Greg Duley to rechamber it using his short throat reamer. 
> If you want the most velocity I'd try the 7 superfatso from Greg Duley it is based off the 338 lapua and improved. The easiest will be 7RUM.


I was using 98gr of us869 for 3275fps with the 180 but now 84gr 2225 for 3245fps.  Considered the 195 but need a 1:8 twist and the gains are not dramatic enough for me.  Building a rifle from scratch though I'd probably give them a go

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## Sidney

Pardon me for being confused.... but if a 7WSM pokes out a 162Amax at about 3100 for around 62 grains of powder and a 7SAUM does around 2950 for even less...

Why do we get excited about 180 grain burgers for only a little more speed, 100 grains of powder and a shagged barrel in even less time? :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

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## stug

BC

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## 6MMBR

Wow more brains then sence.
Some body needs to be the foram wanker might as well be me,

Not getting at you personly ? 
But Wtf are you up to daisy . A 1.6 k hunting rifle ? 
On average i shoot and sell around 1500-2000 roo per year and export them for pet food, 400 is about my max but only use a blk , 

Im curios , if you build this thing will your 22 inch moa at 1.6 1 moa gun at 100 be accurate enouf for a man with 3 guns that dose not no what he wants and has to asks internet advice to make a decision ?

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## MSL

Plenty of people shooting a lot further than 400 at animals a lot gruntier than Roos.  There is also a difference between shooting an animal at 1600, and just having a rifle that could do it.

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## Sidney

Nathan Foster does a 7mm Practical which sounds like it maybe could be??

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## stug

7mm practical is the 300 win mag necked down and shoulder changed. Better than the rem mag, but behind the RUM. I think it is around 80ish grains of capacity/powder.

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## 300_BLK

So the Gunsmith said RUM's eat barrels at too fast a rate and recommends the 7 LRM / Dakota or 7-375. (personally don't care about Barrel life)

Would the practical (7 - 300 Win) be the same? or a STW?

I can / will get a wyats box fitted for a longer magazine.
 @6MMBR I know what I want in terms of performance mate, I'm just smart enough to know what I don't know and defer to those who have already burn't out a few barrels in a big 7mm rig. I have shot goats and wallabies to 1100m mate, just want to go a bit further is all and hopefully its a half moa gun  :Thumbsup:

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## Sidney

ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html

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## Proudkiwi

7mm Practical sounds alright but I hate rimmed cases and I reckon it looks a bit weird.

7/375 would be my pick.

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## 199p

Norma

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## camo wsm

> So the Gunsmith said RUM's eat barrels at too fast a rate and recommends the 7 LRM / Dakota or 7-375. (personally don't care about Barrel life)
> 
> Would the practical (7 - 300 Win) be the same? or a STW?
> 
> I can / will get a wyats box fitted for a longer magazine.
>  @6MMBR I know what I want in terms of performance mate, I'm just smart enough to know what I don't know and defer to those who have already burn't out a few barrels in a big 7mm rig. I have shot goats and wallabies to 1100m mate, just want to go a bit further is all and hopefully its a half moa gun


Had a 7 lrm and still have two close mates that still run them do about 3k with 180's easily in a 24 inch tube brass is expensive as other than that they're nice I'd go bigger though either 28 nosler or neck down 300 Norma if it was me

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## stug

If you want velocity then barrel life will suffer. The smaller capacity cases will give slightly more barrel life. The bigger thing will be how you shoot it. Long strings of shots will eat the barrel faster, no matter what the velocity. Kirby Allen on longrangehunting.com had some good info on barrel life in his 7mm Allen magnum, basically a 338 lapua improved and necked to 7mm.

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## Matt2308

I think that you are on the right track with the 7-300 Norma.
Seems about ideal to push the 195's and will be a great long range hammer!

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## Pongo12

I had a 7mm/338 Norma mag improve. Man it had some boogie and hit bloody hard. 180 Berger at 3250.  Just make sure you get a good smith to build it for you

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## L.R

> I was using 98gr of us869 for 3275fps with the 180 but now 84gr 2225 for 3245fps.  Considered the 195 but need a 1:8 twist and the gains are not dramatic enough for me.  Building a rifle from scratch though I'd probably give them a go


Your getting good speed firing a 7mm projectile from a 338 barrel.

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## MSL

I 'was', not currently though

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## PERRISCICABA

7MM-300NM my suggestion!

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## 300_BLK

So after a lengthy discussion with my smith and another owner of a 7-300NM (and plenty of encouraging from all of you) I will go with the original concept of a 7-300 Norma.

Rem 700 Action
25.5" Bartlein fluted Barrel, T2 brake
Brass Norma 100X
Bergers on back order unless I can convince  @Kiwi Greg to give me one of his boxes that are squirreled away somewhere...
Stock.... work in progress but hoping Sendero / HS


Will post updates on loads and pics when complete...and the load dev story.

Thanks for the constructive input  :Thumbsup:

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## Kiwi Greg

> So after a lengthy discussion with my smith and another owner of a 7-300NM (and plenty of encouraging from all of you) I will go with the original concept of a 7-300 Norma.
> 
> Rem 700 Action
> 25.5" Bartlein fluted Barrel, T2 brake
> Brass Norma 100X
> Bergers on back order unless I can convince  @Kiwi Greg to give me one of his boxes that are squirreled away somewhere...
> Stock.... work in progress but hoping Sendero / HS
> 
> 
> ...


I have plenty of brass & Bergers here, might even have some dies   :Have A Nice Day:

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## Echo

@Kiwi Greg have u got yours going?

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## Kiwi Greg

> @Kiwi Greg have u got yours going?


Yes & no, its going but having some teething issues,  :Oh Noes:  

3100 FPS happily with the 195s out of 28"

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## Echo

The speeds no teething issue

Is the pressure and jump an issue?

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## Kiwi Greg

> The speeds no teething issue��
> 
> Is the pressure and jump an issue?


No having accuracy issues at the moment.

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## 300_BLK

> I have plenty of brass & Bergers here, might even have some dies


Have emailed you

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## 6MMBR

I burn a barrel or 3 a year. 
Let me guess ur gunsmith says ur throats stuffed on ur .920 
Replace barrel
Ask him to cut 2 inch off the burnt out barrel and get it reamed . 
See what he says . 
Get ur barrel made 2 in longer and double its life.

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## Kiwi Greg

> I burn a barrel or 3 a year. 
> Let me guess ur gunsmith says ur throats stuffed on ur .920 
> Replace barrel
> Ask him to cut 2 inch off the burnt out barrel and get it reamed . 
> See what he says . 
> Get ur barrel made 2 in longer and double its life.


Yeah kinda doesnt work on a Carbon barrel.....

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## Friwi

That is because you need two inches of longer steel on the action side of your barrel ;-)
That would be the ruin of The barrel maker!

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## 300_BLK

Dropped off the barrel / action and brake to the smith.

Brass is on it's way with some 175 ELD-X, Still trying to get a box of 195 Bergers off  @Kiwi Greg  :Psmiley: 

Going with a R700 Detachable Mag action / stock. The mag has 3.6" of usable length and feeds my 338 Lap factory rounds so heaps of room. Should be a 2+1 setup which is more than enough oomph!

When barrel number two goes on I might go to a HS Stock and AICS setup like the 338 Lap.





From the left 7mm Blaser Mag, 300 Norma Improved, 300RUM.

Next update should be a dummy round and ladder test, Rifle ETA Jan 17.

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## Echo

Nice
What flavour barrel is it?
Have you thought of going 7mm 300 Blaser Magnum?
Not so over bored but still has huge capacity

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## Echo

> No having accuracy issues at the moment.


Not the sort of calibre you want to have accuracy problems to sort out...I feel your pain
Hopefully you sort it before the barrel is burnt out😉

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## 300_BLK

> Nice
> What flavour barrel is it?
> Have you thought of going 7mm 300 Blaser Magnum?
> Not so over bored but still has huge capacity


Yeah looked at it but wanted to stick with the original idea. If it is not what I'm after can stick to vanilla 300 Norma.

Bartlein barrel. Fyi I don't expect it to last more than 300 rounds, it's second hand already and for load development

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## GregD

Hi 300BLK,
We have been using a 300NM necked to 7mm and improved for some years now, that we call our 7mm Fatmax. It is our favourite 7mm lightweight long range hunting cartridge these days, and we have built a bunch of them for customers over the last 5 years. (Initially was the 338 NM parent case) The go-to load for many years now has been the 180gn Berger Hybrid at around 3200 to 3250fps out of a 26" barrel. We used to use US869 but now mainly Reloder33. 
Barrel life wise as a hunting rifle you should get a comfortable 500 rounds, especially out of a cut rifled Bartlein. We use 8" twist Bartleins for all our 7mm Fatmax builds now. We build them mainly as super lightweight rifles like the one you see us using on the TV Show, and that one has had over 500 rounds and still shoots. 
You will not get 3200 to 3300fps with the 195gn Berger out of the 7mm/300NM imp for two reasons. 
One, pressure, sticking to 65,000psi you'll get about 3100fps out of a 26" and 3150fps-ish out of a 28", and that's with US869 which produces the most velocity for the least pressure. Re33 with be a tad less. 
Two, the 195s don't seem to shoot at anything over about 3175fps from our experience. Keep them to 3150fps and they're tack drivers. We tried them in our biggest 7mm, the 7mm FX (used to be the 7mm SF that Stu was talking about, all our FXs are based on the 338 Lapua imp case), and drove them to approaching 3300fps, but they would not shoot until we backed them off to 3150fps. A 28" 7mm Fatmax achieves this with better barrel life so no point in the 7mmFX if you wanna shoot the 195s. 
The 7mmFX with the 180gn Hybrids will do 3400fps though, and there ain't much flatter than that, but the higher BC of the 195s is better in the wind. 

If you run the numbers out of 28" barrels on the 195s at 3150 out of the 7mm Fatmax, verses the 230gn Hybrid at 3200fps out of our 300FX, verses the 300gn Hybrid at 2950fps out of our 338FX, you see they're all pretty much neck and neck in the wind all the way to 1500 yards, except the 7mm Fatmax/195gn combo does it with a shit load less recoil and powder. The 338FX doesn't start to edge ahead in the wind until 2000 yards. Obviously the terminal performance of the fatter heavier bullets is theoretically commensurately better, but we haven't found the 195s lacking in our limited terminal testing so far.

How have you found them KG? Have you managed to stick one into anything at range yet, or is it still too early in your testing for that? 
Mates in the US have tested their terminal performance more extensively, and not found them lacking.

We think there's a huge potential for the 195s in the 7mm Fatmax - not because it will outdo the bigger FXs, but because it will equal them ballistically in a much lighter rifle - which certainly appeals for our wilderness hunting expeditions!

Sounds like you've already decided to go this way anyway 300BLK, but hopefully our results will give you some reassurance you've made the right choice!   :Have A Nice Day:

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## Echo

Great info thanks GregD

What weight is your 7mm Fatmax?
Assuming you are using a radial brake what is recoil like?

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## GregD

Our personal 7mm Fatmax weighs about 6.6 lbs including the 3.5-18 Swaro scope. Its a pussy to shoot with just a radial type brake, but we fit some with our 7000 series alloy angled port directional brakes for those who feel they want more. We personally only have these on the bigger FX series with the heavier projectiles. Not needed on the Fatmax really though, and the radial is better for when you're taking the brake on and off for spook and shoot mode when we're walking without hearing protection, and then winding back on when we want to take a long shot with plugs in. All brakes will creep on the shoulder over time with many on and offs, and it doesn't matter with a radial but is annoying as it starts to index wrong with a directional.

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## rambo-6mmrem

I can understand the gongs at very long distance would be fun but in my opinion and my opinion only hunting at that range would be un ethical hunting
one slight miss calculation or a gust at the Wrong time and the animal has a round through its back legs its most likely going to get somewhere you cant see it to get a follow up and how long is it going to take someone on foot to cover that distance find the poor thing and finish it off 

I would limit hunting distance to a distance where you could hit a 6"x6" gong every shot in any conditions cold bore without fail

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## Gibo

> I can understand the gongs at very long distance would be fun but in my opinion and my opinion only hunting at that range would be un ethical hunting
> one slight miss calculation or a gust at the Wrong time and the animal has a round through its back legs its most likely going to get somewhere you cant see it to get a follow up and how long is it going to take someone on foot to cover that distance find the poor thing and finish it off 
> 
> I would limit hunting distance to a distance where you could hit a 6"x6" gong every shot in any conditions cold bore without fail


Yes and this is my opinion  :Have A Nice Day:  There is no difference in risk at any distance if you consider experience and sound systems. I know guys who could consistently 'kill' to that distance, I also know a lot of people cannot ethically kill at 50 metres. Whether they are using inaccurate rifles, don't know where the kill zones are or are simply taking dumb shots. The point is good practise, good tools and good knowledge amount to ethical kills, not distance  :Grin:

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## Echo

This thread is about big Sevens and 195 Bergers...not about you're ability as a shooter

Some great info has been given on the subject by some knowledgeable guys that are freely sharing this info

Lets try keep it on track

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## 300_BLK

Amen @Gibo. I have seen many a fuckup under 100m on animals. Get out there and practice with the all the gear you're using in the field until you are good to go. Know you're limits!

Cheers for the info @GregD.

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## 6MMBR

So explane this carbon barrel to me. 
Its a standard mountin rifle contour that would be threded and have a vacume bagged vinalester resin pumped thru it im gussing?. 
Best resin for heat resistance ! 
Machined crown tip holding it all together. or is it filament wrapped like a spa on a yacht

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## Friwi

Something like that :
Composite Rifle - Proof Research

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## 6MMBR

Good spin? 
Could see the benifit in a hunting situation but why you would want to reduce weight on for example an f open rifle.

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## 6x47

You wouldn't. They're targeted at lightweight hunting rifles although the weight savings are pretty marginal.

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## Kiwi Greg

> You wouldn't. They're targeted at lightweight hunting rifles although the weight savings are pretty marginal.


Marginal is a relative term.

The longer the barrel the more weight you save.

Either of these could be considered light, even though both have "heavy" actions & stocks.

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...-magnum-21359/

http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...minator-25380/

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## 6x47

Would you not agree Greg the major weight savings to be made are in the stock (given you haven't chosen a heavy action)?

I was alluding to hunting rifle barrels under say 25".

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## 6MMBR

Interesting, wonder how these barrels will go with the time test! 
Most composite and resins break down and go brittle over time as resins never really cure 100%
Heat is a major cause of premature aging in resins.

Might try one on my next rebarrel

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## Echo

Any updates on the 195 ?

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## 300_BLK

> Any updates on the 195 ?


Smith is screwing on a Shilen Select Match and I will get dies from Whidden in the states.

Barrel length will be around 28" and have yet to decide on contour #3 or #4.

Hopefully not too far away.

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## Echo

Nice work...exciting project

1 in 8 twist barrel?

Have you gone for a 7mm 300 Norma standard shoulder or Improved?

Does Whidden make custom dies or are you using a 300 Norma Magnum die with 7mm neck bushing?

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## 300_BLK

@Echo 1:8 Shilen Select match tube @ 26"

Standard shoulder.

Action is all trued up and bolt work done.

Whidden Dies arrived and I know which bushings to get.

Have 175 ELD-X and some RL33, just need some 195 Bergers.

Barrel is on the water so fingers crossed she will be 6 weeks away....

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## GWH

Got an update on this  @300_BLK

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## 300_BLK

Barrels were seized by customs in the states due to exporter having incorrect paperwork.

Still waiting

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## GWH

> Barrels were seized by customs in the states due to exporter having incorrect paperwork.
> 
> Still waiting


Bugger

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## Rock river arms hunter

Call this a dumb question if you will but why did you select the barrel you did as opposed to a Locally made Trueflite?

Some very interesting reading indeed as I'm researching my next project along similar lines.

Enlightening is a understatement!

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## Rock river arms hunter

Call this a dumb question if you will but why did you select the barrel you did as opposed to a Locally made Trueflite?

Some very interesting reading indeed as I'm researching my next project along similar lines.

Enlightening is a understatement!

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## GWH

> Call this a dumb question if you will but why did you select the barrel you did as opposed to a Locally made Trueflite?
> 
> Some very interesting reading indeed as I'm researching my next project along similar lines.
> 
> Enlightening is a understatement!


Because the 7mm barrel he selected will shoot good.  

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## R93

I have had 4 trueflite barrels. 
Only one shot well. Very well in fact. 
Have one Bartlein...to say I got what I paid for would be an understatement. 
Will only buy Bartlein or maybe one of KGs carbon ones from now on. 
Have also had MAB, Hart, Shilen, Krieger, vulcan (nz) and precision. 
All shot well but the Bartlein has been my favorite. 
Easy to clean and looking thru a scope you wouldn't think it has fired nearly 500rnds

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## GWH

> I have had 4 trueflite barrels. 
> Only one shot well. Very well in fact. 
> Have one Bartlein...to say I got what I paid for would be an understatement. 
> Will only by Bartlein or maybe one of KGs carbon ones from now on. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


You're not the first person I've heard say that.

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## R93

> You're not the first person I've heard say that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


I never dealt with them directly but when we complained about the performance we were told to shoot a couple hundred rounds thru it to then see what it does. Wtf? 
Then we hear they had issues with 6.5-7mm barrels but would not replace mine. 

Every good custom barrel I have had, has shot a generic starting load straight away. 
No running in bullshit, they just shot. 

Never run in a barrel in my life and I have had a few. I have lapped a couple due to a bit of coppering but that's about it. 

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## Rock river arms hunter

Hmmm interesting.

It's the first I've heard about them in relation to quality in a bad way.

Anyway interesting to see different people's experiences :-)

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## R93

> Hmmm interesting.
> 
> It's the first I've heard about them in relation to quality in a bad way.
> 
> Anyway interesting to see different people's experiences :-)


Bare in mind that I was dealt a bad hand by them 4 or 5 years ago. 
They have likely been fine since then and don't want to rubbish them. Was just my experience and to be fair because of that, I doubt I will never buy another barrel off them. 

The TF barrel I had that shot well was really good in every aspect. 

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## Echo

> I never dealt with them directly but when we complained about the performance we were told to shoot a couple hundred rounds thru it to then see what it does. Wtf? 
> Then we hear they had issues with 6.5-7mm barrels but would not replace mine. 
> 
> Every good custom barrel I have had, has shot a generic starting load straight away. 
> No running in bullshit, they just shot. 
> 
> Never run in a barrel in my life and I have had a few. I have lapped a couple due to a bit of coppering but that's about it. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


The extra cost of a cut barrel is less than the cost of a couple of hundred rounds....its a easy decision in my opinion

You end up using that many cleaning products on the cheap barrel as well so take that into consideration 

Then after the barrel wont shoot the maker blames the cleaning products and how you have cleaned it saying thats why it won't shoot and so it has no warranty

Spend an extra few hundred at the start and take chance out of the equation

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## Echo

> Easy to clean and looking thru a scope you wouldn't think it has fired nearly 500rnds
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


What calibre @R93 ?

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## R93

> What calibre @R93 ?


6.5

 It reads like you are also very familiar with my experience 
If I can't get a rifle to shoot I always get a few other competent people to shoot said rifle for me. 
Some of the feedback we received was pretty insulting and probably would be for a beginner. 

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## 199p

> Call this a dumb question if you will but why did you select the barrel you did as opposed to a Locally made Trueflite?
> 
> Some very interesting reading indeed as I'm researching my next project along similar lines.
> 
> Enlightening is a understatement!



Been there done that been burned and grant is a tosser 
particular rifle shot better and faster with the standard barrel then the truflight and cleaning was a bitch even after 300 rounds

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## 199p

> Bare in mind that I was dealt a bad hand by them 4 or 5 years ago. 
> They have likely been fine since then and don't want to rubbish them. Was just my experience and to be fair because of that, I doubt I will never buy another barrel off them. 
> 
> The TF barrel I had that shot well was really good in every aspect. 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Mine too was about that time and was 7mm barrel. 
Wont have another one especially how I was spoken too

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## chainsaw

Trueflite have done 4 barrels for now over 4-5 years,  2 in 7mm, 1 in 6.5 and one in 30 cal. All have been very accurate from get go, and I've broken the barrel in per Truflite instructions. Just done a 284 for me and about to start on break in & load dev. Always had great service and advice from Grant. Fingers crossed this 5th one is a shooter as well. I would agree that copper build up & cleaning is a bit of a mission in some barrels in the first stages but comes right with good Cu solvent and a round or 2 of lapping. Have never tried imported high end barrels so can't make any comparisons. Every gunsmith can turn out the odd dud bbl, but I'd expect the smith to stand by their work & put it right if it was not.

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## Proudkiwi

> Trueflite have done 4 barrels for now over 4-5 years,  2 in 7mm, 1 in 6.5 and one in 30 cal. All have been very accurate from get go, and I've broken the barrel in per Truflite instructions. Just done a 284 for me and about to start on break in & load dev. Always had great service and advice from Grant. Fingers crossed this 5th one is a shooter as well. I would agree that copper build up & cleaning is a bit of a mission in some barrels in the first stages but comes right with good Cu solvent and a round or 2 of lapping. Have never tried imported high end barrels so can't make any comparisons. Every gunsmith can turn out the odd dud bbl, but I'd expect the smith to stand by their work & put it right if it was not.


So you bought 'premium' barrels which you subsequently had to do a round or two of lapping on. You don't see any problems with that?

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## chainsaw

No

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## Echo

> Trueflite have done 4 barrels for now over 4-5 years,  2 in 7mm, 1 in 6.5 and one in 30 cal. All have been very accurate from get go, and I've broken the barrel in per Truflite instructions. Just done a 284 for me and about to start on break in & load dev. Always had great service and advice from Grant. Fingers crossed this 5th one is a shooter as well. I would agree that copper build up & cleaning is a bit of a mission in some barrels in the first stages but comes right with good Cu solvent and a round or 2 of lapping. Have never tried imported high end barrels so can't make any comparisons. Every gunsmith can turn out the odd dud bbl, but I'd expect the smith to stand by their work & put it right if it was not.


Problem is if your home handy man lapping doesnt work the barrel maker will not warranty barrel....sounds like you have been lucky

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## R93

> Trueflite have done 4 barrels for now over 4-5 years,  2 in 7mm, 1 in 6.5 and one in 30 cal. All have been very accurate from get go, and I've broken the barrel in per Truflite instructions. Just done a 284 for me and about to start on break in & load dev. Always had great service and advice from Grant. Fingers crossed this 5th one is a shooter as well. I would agree that copper build up & cleaning is a bit of a mission in some barrels in the first stages but comes right with good Cu solvent and a round or 2 of lapping. Have never tried imported high end barrels so can't make any comparisons. Every gunsmith can turn out the odd dud bbl, but I'd expect the smith to stand by their work & put it right if it was not.


I have a couple mates with the same experience. They swear by their TF barrels.
And fair enough coz I have seen the results. They're good. 

Like I said my experience with them wasn't good and I am sure you will find dissatisfied customers with any barrel maker that sells a heap of barrels. 

I can also see things from their side a bit as well. I have worked behind a counter in a couple sports shops on and off helping a mate out. Some of the bullshit claims and complaints you hear all day are completely ridiculous. 

I always fancied I would buy my local shop and retire selling guns and outdoor gear.

 After a few days here and there of actually doing it I put that out of my mind completely. I wouldnt last a week without losing my shit

Not everyone can shoot tiny groups but it is always someone or something elses fault why they can't. 



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## BRADS

> I have a couple mates with the same experience. They swear by their TF barrels.
> And fair enough coz I have seen the results. They're good. 
> 
> Like I said my experience with them wasn't good and I am sure you will find dissatisfied customers with any barrel maker that sells a heap of barrels. 
> 
> I can also see things from their side a bit as well. I have worked behind a counter in a couple sports shops on and off helping a mate out. Some of the bullshit claims and complaints you hear all day are completely ridiculous. 
> 
> I always fancied I would buy my local shop and retire selling guns and outdoor gear.
> 
> ...


Most people can't shoot as well as the claim it's a fact of life.
The worst are generally the big talkers I've found.
Watch the quiet dude that rocks up with a day bag and old gun he won't disappoint.

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## Smiddy

> Most people can't shoot as well as the claim it's a fact of life.
> The worst are generally the big talkers I've found.
> Watch the quiet dude that rocks up with a day bag and old gun he won't disappoint.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I bet you will see plenty at the Toby shoot lol,   Talk talk talk...... Miss miss miss 


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## stug

I could have made a fortune mining copper from my Trueflite barrel. Eventually settled down but took a couple of hundred rounds. Shot OK.

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## GWH

> I could have made a fortune mining copper from my Trueflite barrel. Eventually settled down but took a couple of hundred rounds. Shot OK.


And on a big over bore 7mm that could be a 1/3 to 1/2 the barrels life ;-)

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## Stocky

Bumping and old thread instead of starting a new onre. Just wondering what people are thinking in terms of the options now. Anything with good quality brass that isn't soft like I've found most Norma and Hornady to be. Haven't had good luck in terms of consistency is Federal or Winchester Brass. I have a fair bit of new Norma 7mm REM mag brass so that my back up option but rifle if just about ready to be chambered but kind of wanted something a bit nicer than just a plain old 7mm Rem Mag as it's just a bit plain and cost is already up there. Have a 1-8 twist 26 inch Brux and a ~3.75" mag box. Not really chasing huge speed but wanting to explore for a node at 3000ish with the 180 ELD M without huge pressures. Rifle suitable for .532 bolt face but can be enlarged as they also came in 416 Rigby factory.

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## GWH

> Bumping and old thread instead of starting a new onre. Just wondering what people are thinking in terms of the options now. Anything with good quality brass that isn't soft like I've found most Norma and Hornady to be. Haven't had good luck in terms of consistency is Federal or Winchester Brass. I have a fair bit of new Norma 7mm REM mag brass so that my back up option but rifle if just about ready to be chambered but kind of wanted something a bit nicer than just a plain old 7mm Rem Mag as it's just a bit plain and cost is already up there. Have a 1-8 twist 26 inch Brux and a ~3.75" mag box. Not really chasing huge speed but wanting to explore for a node at 3000ish with the 180 ELD M without huge pressures. Rifle suitable for .532 bolt face but can be enlarged as they also came in 416 Rigby factory.


I've been using Norma 26 Nosler brass in my 28 Nosler. Running 195s at 3075 fps. No issues with it being soft at all like I've also experienced with SAUM Norma brass.

7mm Blaser Mag is probably a good option for 180s at 3k.

28 Nosler can do that super easy but prob still using more powder than blaser mag.



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## von tempsky fan

> I've been using Norma 26 Nosler brass in my 28 Nosler. Running 195s at 3075 fps. No issues with it being soft at all like I've also experienced with SAUM Norma brass.
> 
> 7mm Blaser Mag is probably a good option for 180s at 3k.
> 
> 28 Nosler can do that super easy but prob still using more powder than blaser mag.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


To get the blaser to get over 3k with the 180 you would need R33 unfortunately or have to run them at a lot higher pressure you can't beat capacity there are no free lunches, at the end of the day it's the same capacity as the wsm and rem mag.
The 28 nosler will do that easily with better ADI powders.

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## chainsaw

+1 for 7mmBM  and 18- gn pills.  Running mine @ 3050fps with 180 VLDs with RL26 and not a hot load.   A whole lot less powder than the truly other "big 7s".   Seems to be very efficient cartridge design  :Thumbsup:

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## von tempsky fan

> +1 for 7mmBM  and 18- gn pills.  Running mine @ 3050fps with 180 VLDs with RL26 and not a hot load.   A whole lot less powder than the truly other "big 7s".   Seems to be very efficient cartridge design


So the same as Rem mag does.

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## Kiwi Greg

> I bet you will see plenty at the Toby shoot lol,   Talk talk talk...... Miss miss miss 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The biggest talkers won't be there for one of a hundred reasons, seen it so many times now.....right from the good old days on the old Forum..... :Zomg: 

Then there's the Guys that say they will be there & bring XYZ etc...no shows....always an excuse....

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