# Outdoors > Fishing >  Eugenie Sage wants to Ban Whitebaiting

## Boaraxa

looks like she is trying to be sneaky again , cant give them too much power.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-ti...-plan#comments

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## Mooseman

Typical, the Government is hell bent on interfering with Kiwis recreational pass time interests.

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## Swompy

My 2 cents worth is I think we will have this year baiting and then she will put a moritorium  on it for 5 years. Trust her like a wet fart

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## chainsaw

Winston handed them the power, now we get to pay for it.  :Pissed Off:

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## ebf

Hahahaha, I would like to see her try...

If the government thought firearms owners were vocal, they are going to have a nasty surprise when it comes to messing with the whitebaiters !

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## Boaraxa

> Typical, the Government is hell bent on interfering with Kiwis recreational pass time interests.


I like my hunting , trout fishing , gold dredging this coalition of losers since getting into power has in some way effected everyone of those activity's now whitebaiting , there's plenty of practical steps they could take before giving that byarch more control .

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## R93

This is the problem with greens, vegans and the rest of the fuckin weirdos we have to be tolerant of.
They're fucking deluded.

Give em an inch and they take a mile.
The only way to fulfill their retarded agendas is for everyone to pack up and move from the country.

In a few years you will have a few hairy man bun freaks gleefully basking in their utopia of gorse, spaniard grass and sand flies.



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## Micky Duck

didnt Jacinda specifically say recently that this is NOT going on??????

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## Hunteast

Reclassify them as 'Brownbait' and she'll be right... :Cool:

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## Boaraxa

> This is the problem with greens, vegans and the rest of the fuckin weirdos we have to be tolerant of.
> They're fucking deluded.
> 
> Give em an inch and they take a mile.
> The only way to fulfill their retarded agendas is for everyone to pack up and move from the country.
> 
> In a few years you will have a few hairy man bun freaks gleefully basking in their utopia of gorse, spaniard grass and sand flies.
> 
> 
> ...


You left out Weed , maybe that,s her plan to get compliance ...everyone will be sedated

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## Gordo

Notice that she said that tyrant has been deliberately obtuse in giving answers. This seems to be the way they operate. I've been trying to get some answers on some of their policy and they just don't give an answer. Part of the most  transparent govt ever my arse. They just don't answer questions because they know they will be called out. 

Have a look at Shaw at the Green Party conference speaking about the dangerous people that deny climate change, Then watch a sermon from bishop Tamaki and try and spot the difference. Bishop Shaw was delivering a sermon not policy. The only dangerous people are these fucking green party loonies, they are no better than a cult. They even have a climate change bible now.

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## Friwi

You are not fare from the truth that ecology is some form of new cult or religion.

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## GravelBen

> You are not fare from the truth that ecology is some form of new cult or religion.


A good read here:

https://medium.com/@hwater84/climate...s-56c181db82c1

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## Gordo

> You are not fare from the truth that ecology is some form of new cult or religion.


It's a religious cult.Like I said they have their own bible now. Skycity have put it in the drawers in hotel rooms next to the holy bible what does that tell you. 

You won't be able to watch for long without puking but it's worth a look on their website to watch him for a few minutes at the Greens conference. You really get to see what he is about. What's incredible is how his flock lap it up. They actually banned the media from attending, bit of a theme with this CoL. First gag media now ban them.

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## xtightg

Check out what the globalist socialists were proposing apparently pushing through without apparent proper consultation on their back country in Canada.

Was not comrade globalist cindy not having talks with turdo recently.

We might wake up one morning to find new rules for DOC land.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Cde6vxiEY

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## Gordo

> A good read here:
> 
> https://medium.com/@hwater84/climate...s-56c181db82c1


Too true this one. The thing that is really pissing me off is the effect their constant ravings are having on our kids. They are getting really anxious about it all and very stressed about something they can't change. It hit home when my daughter asked me with genuine concern if the world only had 12 years left. It had been bothering her for a while and a lot of kids she knows are quite stressed about it. I reckon it's tantamount to child abuse. Naturally I reassured her and had quite an in depth conversation with her. She was reassured when I told her I have been hearing this since I was her age. 

Something to think about if you think something is bothering one of your kids. It's become quite a serious issue that hasn't been picked up on yet by teachers or most parents, it's something that is simmering and having a serious impact on our kids and it is slowly getting worse for them. 

I've just posted this article to the Greens Facebook page. I will sit back and watch the onslaught ha ha.

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## Gordo

> Check out what the globalist socialists were proposing apparently pushing through without apparent proper consultation on their back country in Canada.
> 
> Was not comrade globalist cindy not having talks with turdo recently.
> 
> We might wake up one morning to find new rules for DOC land.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Cde6vxiEY


Interesting what she said at the end how they don't want foreign funded environmental groups interfering with local issues. I notice that Greenpeace is really starting to stick their noses into our business in NZ.

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## 10-Ring

The Green loops want to turn NZ back to pre European times. All introduced species are despised and must be destroyed. Even farm animals such as cows aren't tolerated in their myopic mindset. What they fail to grasp is that they're an introduced species themselves.

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## Moa Hunter

Back to the Whitebait, how would it be if recreational baiters had to use a registered bucket (bought from doc who -else) for their catch and when the buckets full you've got your limit, say 2kg. On some Canterbury rivers, baiters camp for the whole season, fish every good day, sell the bait and obstruct anyone else from fishing

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## Tahr

> Back to the Whitebait, how would it be if recreational baiters had to use a registered bucket (bought from doc who -else) for their catch and when the buckets full you've got your limit, say 2kg. On some Canterbury rivers, baiters camp for the whole season, fish every good day, sell the bait and obstruct anyone else from fishing


Good. No one in this thread except Boaraxa seems to acknowledged that maybe there is a problem with the 'baits and that the take might not be sustainable? I don't know - but maybe they are under threat - the research seems to be saying so? Maybe a way of life and the 'baits can be saved? If so, what are we prepared to do about it or accept? Beating up on Sage won't change a thing for whitebait. Won't change her either.

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## R93

> Back to the Whitebait, how would it be if recreational baiters had to use a registered bucket (bought from doc who -else) for their catch and when the buckets full you've got your limit, say 2kg. On some Canterbury rivers, baiters camp for the whole season, fish every good day, sell the bait and obstruct anyone else from fishing


I don't think anyone is against some forms of improvement.
I just get sick of being told the whitebait are in decline coz research suggests it is. Maybe elsewhere in Nz but some of the best seasons on record, have happened here on the coast in the last 10 years. Must be the same people doing the Thar counts

I think commercial fishers should have a quota and rec fishers also have some restrictions.
Every major industry the coast has thrived on has been slowly and slyly taken away by the government under the guise of conservation.
I don't have any great ideas how to regulate whitebaiting but most of us here that enjoy it are open to something. We are sick to death of a government that has no idea of life here on the coast destroying everything that makes it tick.




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## Boaraxa

> Good. No one in this thread except Boaraxa seems to acknowledged that maybe there is a problem with the 'baits and that the take might not be sustainable? I don't know - but maybe they are under threat - the research seems to be saying so? Maybe a way of life and the 'baits can be saved? If so, what are we prepared to do about it or accept? Beating up on Sage won't change a thing for whitebait. Won't change her either.


I think most baiters would except a shorter season , creation of whitebait reserves , as mentioned above there's certainly assholes scattered around the country that take over river mouths mostly to make money so that should be looked at too , actually you could throw policing into that as well , often that is where the problem lie,s , someone gets up early gets the good spot an hour latter A hole turns up and say,s get off my spot  :36 1 18:  regular occurrence in some places like the clutha .

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## R93

> I think most baiters would except a shorter season , creation of whitebait reserves , as mentioned above there's certainly assholes scattered around the country that take over river mouths mostly to make money so that should be looked at too , actually you could throw policing into that as well , often that is where the problem lie,s , someone gets up early gets the good spot an hour latter A hole turns up and say,s get off my spot  regular occurrence in some places like the clutha .


Our season is already shorter here on the coast.
A lot of bait makes it up river prior too and after the season.
They just have to stop the bullshit customary licences they allow for after the season.
It is total bullshit. If you dont catch your needs during the season stiff shit.

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## Boaraxa

> Our season is already shorter here on the coast.
> A lot of bait makes it up river prior too and after the season.
> They just have to stop the bullshit customary licences they allow for after the season.
> It is total bullshit. If you dont catch your needs during the season stiff shit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


Youv finally come out from underneath your bed ? 

Agreed I was more talking about the rest of the country , the coast is actually a pretty good example of taking steps to make sure the bait are more sustainable , some of the reserves over there are magic ,  this argument has been running for years I think what's tipped the scales is habitat destruction from farming , urban run off as opposed to what's caught down at the beech but everyone will need to do there part , if the money side of it was removed that would have quite an effect .

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## R93

> Youv finally come out from underneath your bed ? 
> 
> Agreed I was more talking about the rest of the country , the coast is actually a pretty good example of taking steps to make sure the bait are more sustainable , some of the reserves over there are magic ,  this argument has been running for years I think what's tipped the scales is habitat destruction from farming , urban run off as opposed to what's caught down at the beech but everyone will need to do there part , if the money side of it was removed that would have quite an effect .


Problem I can see with regulating everywhere else different to the coast is it would flood our areas with even more people from away.

Like I said I dont have any great ideas but any regulation has to work for everywhere. Our season is iirc over a month shorter than everywhere else. Our weather and flooded rivers shorten it even more. A good thing. I seen a bit of bait in the river yesterday. I always see a fair bit after the season as well.
Apart from a quota for the commercial people or established stands I dont see how we can regulate it any more here. I dont think our whitebait are in any danger.
Taking the money value away from it may work but then you are screwing over heaps of people that have invested a heap of money in the first place with no way of recouping their investment.
I see it being a complete mess if this current government has anything to do with it.

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## Moa Hunter

White bait spawn in the long grass, carex and rushes in the estuarine areas of rivers. Some years ago a regulatory move was made to stop cattle grazing in these areas and that has had a positive effect to protect the spawn. The adults are the ones in trouble with pollution of slow moving drains and streams which are their habitat. A lot of this pollution is from towns, most towns being in the coastal belt. As an example every single stream and drain around Rangiora is now polluted with contaminated storm-water, thirty years ago only one stream was.

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## gonetropo

> White bait spawn in the long grass, carex and rushes in the estuarine areas of rivers. Some years ago a regulatory move was made to stop cattle grazing in these areas and that has had a positive effect to protect the spawn. The adults are the ones in trouble with pollution of slow moving drains and streams which are their habitat. A lot of this pollution is from towns, most towns being in the coastal belt. As an example every single stream and drain around Rangiora is now polluted with contaminated storm-water, thirty years ago only one stream was.


oh i thought you wrote slow moving brains
instantly i thought how to whitebait spawn in parliament

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## Moa Hunter

> Problem I can see with regulating everywhere else different to the coast is it would flood our areas with even more people from away.
> 
> Like I said I dont have any great ideas but any regulation has to work for everywhere. Our season is iirc over a month shorter than everywhere else. Our weather and flooded rivers shorten it even more. A good thing. I seen a bit of bait in the river yesterday. I always see a fair bit after the season as well.
> Apart from a quota for the commercial people or established stands I dont see how we can regulate it any more here. I dont think our whitebait are in any danger.
> Taking the money value away from it may work but then you are screwing over heaps of people that have invested a heap of money in the first place with no way of recouping their investment.
> I see it being a complete mess if this current government has anything to do with it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


As the habitat on the coast is close to pristine, the whitebait are safe. All that needs happen is to make sure that the habitat stays in good shape.
The Coast acts as a spawning reserve for other areas too. A bad season on the Coast often is caused by ocean currents taking the juveniles north and can also often mean a good season on the Motueka River as they come in there. There have been some tremendous seasons in Canterbury in the last few years, seasons which common sense tells us are far beyond what the local breeding population and spawning capacity could produce - seasons where individuals have caught 80 kg in a day - these seasons have coincided with a strong continuous Southerly drift, which suggests that the bait probably hatched from Southland

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## R93

You would think/hope that southerly drift would bring some of that fiordland/south westland bait up the coast a bit further
Some Canterbury salmon wouldnt go amiss either.

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## Sideshow

Did anyone read the comments to the stuff article?
I’ve never fished for white bait. 
But I do know this as soon as you open up a resource to be sold you open it up to be exploited!
No trout sales in NZ have saved the trout fishery’s from this exact exploitation!
The only time I have ever seen trout for sale in NZ was in Te Aroha at The Grand by an eel fisherman who had caught a few in his nets. Got asked to leave.
Ban the sale and you help the fishery.
Might be simple for a guy on the outside looking in?

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## Moa Hunter

> i read an article by a scientist that said fishing restrictions wont help the whitebait but habitat protection and enhancement will even with the current fishing regs and season length which wont fit well with Herr sage and her cronies. the 3 parties of col need voted out of the beehive otherwise this country is doomed and it wont be in our kids time it will be in our time.


Totally agree. However the current spotlight on Whitebait does give us the opportunity to reform and regulate the recreational fishery. For example there are blokes on sickness benefits (bad backs) who Hog the front net positions at the Waimak south side, sleep at the mouth and swap over in shifts so the position is held 24 hrs for three months - unless a big flood sends all home. Then when Dad grabs the kids and heads down to the river after work there is no bait around - all caught at the mouth

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## Dama dama

I would not support a total ban, however I would fully support a ban on commercial fishing.  Its the only species in NZ that anyone can sell, many exploit this.  You can't sell trout and salmon, all sea fish and fresh water eels have a quota system attached, you need an special license or some such for wild game.  Whitebait is the odd one out.

I'd agree with restriction on a recreational take, a "bag limited" if you will.  This should be on a waterway by waterway basis, much the same as trout takes are different depending on the productivity/popularity of a river.

However, habiatat loss and water quality are the biggest issues and clearly need addressing nationwide.

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## Sideshow

So there’s no license fee? Yet you can sell them?
That seems to make zero sense  :Sad:

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## Micky Duck

just been on one news....meeting on west coast with MPs present. Eugene came on after blaming national for stirring the pot over a non issue........hmmmm verdict is still out on this one.

IF they decide to regulate it just WHO do they propose will police it????

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## nevereadyfreddy

The new wanabe/volunteer cops.

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## Russian 22.

> Good. No one in this thread except Boaraxa seems to acknowledged that maybe there is a problem with the 'baits and that the take might not be sustainable? I don't know - but maybe they are under threat - the research seems to be saying so? Maybe a way of life and the 'baits can be saved? If so, what are we prepared to do about it or accept? Beating up on Sage won't change a thing for whitebait. Won't change her either.


It'll end up being like north Atlantic cod. Going from so many you whack a basket overboard and lift it out full of cod to bugger all after a long moratorium. 




> As the habitat on the coast is close to pristine, the whitebait are safe. All that needs happen is to make sure that the habitat stays in good shape.
> The Coast acts as a spawning reserve for other areas too. A bad season on the Coast often is caused by ocean currents taking the juveniles north and can also often mean a good season on the Motueka River as they come in there. There have been some tremendous seasons in Canterbury in the last few years, seasons which common sense tells us are far beyond what the local breeding population and spawning capacity could produce - seasons where individuals have caught 80 kg in a day - these seasons have coincided with a strong continuous Southerly drift, which suggests that the bait probably hatched from Southland


See that's the issue. People catching far more than they need to have some fritters (which to me seemed like fishy omelette) and then selling them off.

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## 300wsm for life

It is completely ridiculous that this is one of the only unregulated fisheries in NZ. It needs to be regulated despite whether it is in a healthy state or not.

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## R93

> It is completely ridiculous that this is one of the only unregulated fisheries in NZ. It needs to be regulated despite whether it is in a healthy state or not.


Is the labour or green party recruiting?

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## 300wsm for life

Not at all. Have never voted Green or Labour. Didn't say I agreed that it needs to be band just managed. I don't understand how the fishery can be caught and sold commercially and not be under the QMS. It is a sure way to destroy it. I would like to people be able to Fish for whitebait 20yrs from now. How long do you think it can be sustained without some form of management?

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## R93

> Not at all. Have never voted Green or Labour. Didn't say I agreed that it needs to be band just managed. I don't understand how the fishery can be caught and sold commercially and not be under the QMS. It is a sure way to destroy it. I would like to people be able to Fish for whitebait 20yrs from now. How long do you think it can be sustained without some form of management?


Apart from rules and a season length it has  been sustainable and survived for nearly 200 yrs till now. Longer if Maori harvested it before European settlement.



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## 300wsm for life

You could use that argument for just about anything. The reality is that it may be healthy now but who knows what the future will bring for whitebait. Management now will at least go some way to protecting for future generations. Look at all the restrictions on cod, scollops etc. The Paua divers around our way have taken a voluntary cut because of lower stock numbers. Quota management is about having fish for future generations.

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## Micky Duck

52lb a season means a lb a week to eat.......... that would be a great season for some and a poor morning for others. IF a total take per person per season was set of say????100lb/50kgs???? and anyone caught buying or selling was hit with say a minimum fine of 20k    the commercial side of it would die overnight.the overall take would HAVE to drop...the big commercial stands would be dormant after a couple of days so another person who doesnt know the ins n outs of it could fish it,again only for day or two...BUT policing it would be a nightmare. you couldnt have a freezer full but how to proove over fishing would be hard to police.

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## R93

> You could use that argument for just about anything. The reality is that it may be healthy now but who knows what the future will bring for whitebait. Management now will at least go some way to protecting for future generations. Look at all the restrictions on cod, scollops etc. The Paua divers around our way have taken a voluntary cut because of lower stock numbers. Quota management is about having fish for future generations.


You sound like a politician.
I have nothing against a well thought out and reasonable form of managment. Stated as much earlier in this thread.
But why now all of a sudden? 
Just about everything I and many other outdoor types enjoy doing  has been attacked in the last 2 years by a bunch of incompetent paper punching delinquents that have no idea what they are doing. They have even banned me from having things I have always had and used responsibly. 
I see no rush to regulate whitebaiting but for some reason it has become one.




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## Micky Duck

R93 mate...you have answered your own question.... bunch of paper punching deliquents have been in POWER for 2 years and its still pulsing through thier colletive veins almost as fast as the whacky backy they smoke.

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## 300wsm for life

I farm salmon in the Marlborough Sounds. I'm not sure why the greens/Labour have brought this up now. As for myself I have always believed that whitebait is a precious resource that needs managing. There has been a lot of attacks on our way of life recently and it's crap.

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## Russian 22.

@R93 if you use the why now bit then you'll find many useful and helpful things wouldn't get done as it's worked up until now.

I think 300wsm is in a reasonable position. There needs to be some sort of well thought out system put in place so people can enjoy the resource. It would be a shame for it to wither away from greed.

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## Sideshow

Yes both have brought something meaningful to the table. Good to see a nice debate going on without anyone throwing their toys out of the sand pit :Have A Nice Day: 
Why now argument is because the population now is higher than 200 years ago.
I think if you half the commercial season you might be onto something.

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## A330driver

Quote...’This is the problem with greens, vegans and the rest of the fuckin weirdos we have to be tolerant of.
They're fucking deluded’

Lol...hahahahaha......strewth mate.....Ive been laughing about that statement for hours.....

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## A330driver

QuoteThe Paua divers around our way have taken a voluntary cut because of lower stock numbers. Quota management is about having fish for future generations.

Yeah mate,and that hasnt stopped some of the latest imports...(have to be careful here) from taking 400 plus under-sized paua without blinking an eye and thats just the ones that get caught.My biggest issue is how they enforce the rules,Regs and mgt plans.Great/good intentions and plans are only as good as its enforcement.

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## 300wsm for life

You are correct management will be difficult as we have a lot of rivers. Some like Big Bay etc will require the use of air craft to get to. It won't be impossible it will just need to be well thought out.
There will still be people who will flaunt any system as they believe it is their right to take as much of anything as they like. That has always been a tough one.

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## Steve123

> Too true this one. The thing that is really pissing me off is the effect their constant ravings are having on our kids. They are getting really anxious about it all and very stressed about something they can't change. It hit home when my daughter asked me with genuine concern if the world only had 12 years left. It had been bothering her for a while and a lot of kids she knows are quite stressed about it. I reckon it's tantamount to child abuse. Naturally I reassured her and had quite an in depth conversation with her. She was reassured when I told her I have been hearing this since I was her age. 
> 
> Something to think about if you think something is bothering one of your kids. It's become quite a serious issue that hasn't been picked up on yet by teachers or most parents, it's something that is simmering and having a serious impact on our kids and it is slowly getting worse for them. 
> 
> I've just posted this article to the Greens Facebook page. I will sit back and watch the onslaught ha ha.


We had the threat of MAD nuclear holocaust to scare us as children. Funny thing is that hasn't gone away. 
Global warming is the new scare.
The problem is human overpopulation but let's be inclusive and not mention that.

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## A330driver

Yeah mate,Im in your court....and not to get off the subject....but when they catch these wankers,the fines,deterrents,etc,are nothing short of bloody pathetic........so in the end you manage the stocks,increase the numbers,protect the ecosystem,habitat protection etc etc .......it leads to more thievery!!!!!!......there is no real deterrent for these pricks,enforcement is akin to pissing into a cook straight wind......








> You are correct management will be difficult as we have a lot of rivers. Some like Big Bay etc will require the use of air craft to get to. It won't be impossible it will just need to be well thought out.
> There will still be people who will flaunt any system as they believe it is their right to take as much of anything as they like. That has always been a tough one.

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## 7mmwsm

Every other fish that is fished commercially in NZ is under a quota system(I think/presume). 
It needs to stay commercial so those that can't or don't fish can still eat it. 
As far as the bullshit theory about "shouldn't be able to sell a native species", snapper and crayfish aren't introduced and we can buy them. Eels are also fished commercially.
We accept bag limits on other fish, why would whitebait be any different.

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## Nick-D

> Every other fish that is fished commercially in NZ is under a quota system(I think/presume). 
> It needs to stay commercial so those that can't or don't fish can still eat it. 
> As far as the bullshit theory about "shouldn't be able to sell a native species", snapper and crayfish aren't introduced and we can buy them. Eels are also fished commercially.
> We accept bag limits on other fish, why would whitebait be any different.


Exactly, its always hard but the stocks need to be protected, the current system is far to open for exploitation. Having no quota or commercial limitation outside of seasons is pretty bad. 

A fishery that is taking only pre breeding stock is logically going to be more susceptible to exploitation. Better monitoring needs to take place, results need to be transparent, and we as custodians and beneficiaries need to play an active role in conservation. The lack of research and data right now is pretty crazy, like as far as I can tell we know sweet fark all about the fishery, recruitment and mortality rate or even the breakdown of species being taken.

Its the problem with the greens proposing anything, they are so militant and comparatively extreme there is going to be an inherent distrust in anything they do. If they were less militant and more open to talking and compromise where possible then the relationship with the stake holders would be less distrusting.

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## nevereadyfreddy

"they are so militant and comparatively extreme there is going to be an inherent distrust in anything they do."

Many of them are fucked in the head too.

ps .sorry ,had a bad day.

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## Micky Duck

> "they are so militant and comparatively extreme there is going to be an inherent distrust in anything they do."
> 
> Many of them are fucked in the head too.
> 
> ps .sorry ,had a bad day.


maybe its not thier fault????someone might have shoved a dick in thier ear to try and shag some sence into them.....

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## 300wsm for life

You need to remember that the Greens wish to make NZ the way it was hundreds of years ago. Whilst that is a lovely thought it is completely impractical. We can't turn back the clock, what we can do is adapt to our current environment. This part seems largely to have been lost on the eco worriers like Eugenie Sage. NZ or the rest of the world for that matter will not in our life time return to the state it was hundreds of years ago.

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## Max Headroom

[QUOTE=R93;880174 I see no rush to regulate whitebaiting but for some reason it has become one.

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I wonder if they've decided to make hay while the sun shines, as they may well be turfed out on their ear next year.

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## Max Headroom

> You need to remember that the Greens wish to make NZ the way it was hundreds of years ago. Whilst that is a lovely thought it is completely impractical. We can't turn back the clock, what we can do is adapt to our current environment. This part seems largely to have been lost on the eco worriers like Eugenie Sage. NZ or the rest of the world for that matter will not in our life time return to the state it was hundreds of years ago.


In order to return NZ to pre human state, they'll have to leave. what an inconvenient truth.

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## Lucky

It’s all tip of the wedge stuff that’s scary , same as the firearm fuckup , I don’t agree with any of it but some guys do exploit the whitebait far beyond hunting and gathering for family and friends .
She will want to get rid of the Trout and Salmon next ....

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## Boaraxa

You no I remember watching a program a couple of years ago about a bloke farming weka , he,d breed a thousands over the years for release , his argument was we should be farming some of our native birds to eat I reckon its a great idea imagine farming thousands of some of our endangered birds like weka , kiwi , kereru to name a few, breed the bastards up eat a bunch & liberate a bunch im sure there would be a market for it in restaurants  , win win , whitebait would be another classic example that would really take the wind out of the commercial sail in this country by decreasing the demand ....food for thought .

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## Micky Duck

> It’s all tip of the wedge stuff that’s scary , same as the firearm fuckup , I don’t agree with any of it but some guys do exploit the whitebait far beyond hunting and gathering for family and friends .
> She will want to get rid of the Trout and Salmon next ....


UMMMM HELLO they have already mentioned that one...the twigs n twitterers have at least.

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## doinit

Yes they want five freshwater fishies removed from our rivers,all being a threat to our native types.
Wake up chaps..our Government are only puppets to the powers that  want these agenda's put in place and it's global.
All none native species are on the hit list. As for the West Coast well there aint a hellova lot left here now that they haven't shut down or stopped us from  doing. knee deep poison on top of all that mmmmmmm,aint lookin great.

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## doinit

> dont worry eugenie will get the west coast how she wants it so you can only take photos and leave footprints.


Yeah and then they will ban cameras (hate pics)  :Wtfsmilie:  track down who left the foot prints and scone em eh lol

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## Backcountry Bob

Interesting responses. For the past few years people, including many whitebaiters, have been suggesting that whitebait populations are under threat and have been asking for measures such as banning sock nets.
Now that a government is prepared to do something about it they get criticized. Who'd be a politician.

I think if the fishery is to be further regulated the best way to do it is to simply shorten the season. This would affect everybody equally.

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## R93

> Interesting responses. For the past few years people, including many whitebaiters, have been suggesting that whitebait populations are under threat and have been asking for measures such as banning sock nets.
> Now that a government is prepared to do something about it they get criticized. Who'd be a politician.
> 
> I think if the fishery is to be further regulated the best way to do it is to simply shorten the season. This would affect everybody equally.


I actually agree. Shorter seasons will work better than anything.

They just gotta stop the customary take bullshit.
I know people that catch shitloads during the season then get a friend or family member to fish their stand and slay it well after the season.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

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## Got-ya

I fish the Waikato river a lot. 4 years ago we had the best season in living memory, how was that possible in a so called declining fishery?. They did a study a few years ago by catching a whole lot of whitebait at the river mouth which they then dyed a different colour. They then with cooperation from the local baiters found out how much was re-caught as it moved up stream, that ended up being about 10%. I get that this % of the bait that goes up stream which is caught may vary from river to river it still shows that a hell of a lot beats us. 
What a lot of you that don't fish ( but are more than happy to buy a fritter off a food truck ) realise is that not only do whitebait run at night (when we are not allowed to fish for it) but it also runs for most of the year. There is this huge assumption that we are fishing for it at the only time it runs which is totally false. I have seen huge runs moving upstream on  the opening of Duck shooting and Boxing day!. 
Habitat protection and improved water quality will do more to improve runs than anything else. There are already lots of restrictions and rules placed on whitebaiters and these rules are working well.
I  cannot remember his name but there is a whitebait expert from Canterbury Uni that has been interviewed a TV in the past, he is a record about all this whitebait going extinct in 10 years blar blar blar  is wrong.  On  the Waikato catches are not declining.

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## Got-ya

Remember who is telling you that the resource is being over fished...............think about it.............. Its the same lefty, sandal wearing, pot reformist vegans that took our guns! The true experts say that is BS. Here on the Waikato river we do get seasonal variation on the amount caught but on average catches are holding steady.

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## TeRei

Maybe Ms Sage should simply change the law to permanently fence off 20m each side of any water way and ban effluent being discharged into waterways. Still that would be in the too hard basket requiring a modicum of commonsense.

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## 7mmwsm

> Maybe Ms Sage should simply change the law to permanently fence off 20m each side of any water way and ban effluent being discharged into waterways. Still that would be in the too hard basket requiring a modicum of commonsense.


Good theory. But if they think twenty meters either side of any creek on my place is going to be fenced off, some serious dollars are going to change hands first. 
But I do my bit to ensure any water leaves my place in as good a condition as it enters.

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## Got-ya

Farmers are doing their bit, they get grief about dirty dairy etc and to be fair historically there was some truth to that. I remember growing up on a dairy farm and watching  the effluent from the yard just running down the drain. However farmers have stepped up and all that is long gone. The change in the water quality of the lower Waikato in the last 30 years has been dramatic, when I was a kid a times over the summer the water would literally stink, to the point you would hesitate to let the gun dog to swim in it let alone yourself.   
Now while there is still more sediment in the water than is ideal of which a fair bit of is coming out of the Waipa river( even that is getting better ) it at least is safe to swim in!. If anything the whitebait catches from what the oldtimers have told me (one of which was a buyer for the whitebait factory when it was running) have improved. However one thing that has dropped off is the smelt or parorai (spelling) runs.

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## doinit

Just out of interest could someone from up in the North of Zealand tell me ...is all this whitebait shit only goin on here on the
West Coast of the South Island or is the same bullshit goin on up North as well?
Just that I have not gone into it at any depth.

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## Got-ya

Nah all over, no way they would get away with just picking on you guys. However your regulations and season length are a lot different.

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## Micky Duck

possibly the most EFFECTIVE way to shorten a season to give more a chance to get past and breed (same goes for salmon,and in past has been hinted for game birds) is to keep season length the same but limit the days you can take...eg no take on Tuesday,Wednesday and Thursday.....now that would really piss off folk who are into it full time/commercially but it has three major advantages. #1 the little guy can still have a 4 day outing #2 the spread of successful breeders is spread out over the whole season(so that net right across the river doesnt stop say a weeks worth in middle of big run) #3 this is real winner...it makes it piece of piss to police ANYONE fishing on those 3 days will be lynched by others who stick to rules ,if the powers that be dont get to them first.

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## doinit

What is not being put into the Public domain is the fact that huge amounts of whitebait run up their rivers long before and well after the legal season,,,thats a fact for here on the Coast,,they are not being fished out.
The people that want to change, make up new laws or stop  whitebaiting will do the dirty and turn people against people with nothing more than propaganda and bullshit meetings.

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## Boaraxa

> What is not being put into the Public domain is the fact that huge amounts of whitebait run up their rivers long before and well after the legal season,,,thats a fact for here on the Coast,,they are not being fished out.
> The people that want to change, make up new laws or stop  whitebaiting will do the dirty and turn people against people with nothing more than propaganda and bullshit meetings.


Never forget catching cod & jock Stewarts in Milford sound in January they were chocka full of bait .

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## yerimaginaryM8

This guy researched whitebait for decades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26pex7UzRgw


Interesting to see that certain snow fed rivers on the coast e.g arawhata have a predominance of certain bait species, I wonder if DOC plan to shut down certain rivers also some evidence in here that shortening the tail end of the season might help with later spawning species.

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## inozz

Have any studies been done on the effects of 1080 on the white bait. World wide NZ is becoming known as a place that poisons everything with that crap.  Unfortunately NZ has long ago lost its clean, green image. Starting to get a name as poison as Chernobyl. How long before the world stops buying NZ produce.   Also be interesting to know if 1080 may be involved with the decline of toeroha as well. The only winners from using that crap is the company producing it, and those who get a kick back from it. Most of the world has banned the use of 1080 in their own countries but not the clueless corrupt government of NZ.

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## 7mmwsm

> Have any studies been done on the effects of 1080 on the white bait. World wide NZ is becoming known as a place that poisons everything with that crap.  Unfortunately NZ has long ago lost its clean, green image. Starting to get a name as poison as Chernobyl. How long before the world stops buying NZ produce.   Also be interesting to know if 1080 may be involved with the decline of toeroha as well. The only winners from using that crap is the company producing it, and those who get a kick back from it. Most of the world has banned the use of 1080 in their own countries but not the clueless corrupt government of NZ.


If everyone stopped eating  the toeroes they would do alright. Take a night time drive up some of those northland beaches on the right tides and watch the gatherers heading for the dunes.

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## A330driver

Yeah mate...yr not wrong there at all.....gobsmacked at how many were being taken.....





> If everyone stopped eating  the toeroes they would do alright. Take a night time drive up some of those northland beaches on the right tides and watch the gatherers heading for the dunes.

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