# Firearms and Shooting > Pistol Shooting >  Handguns for Self Defense in the USA.

## Miami_JBT

Glock Model 22 .40 S&W and a Bianchi Duty Belt


Glock Model 23 .40 S&W

I've been a cop now for ten years and carried a gun daily since I was 18 due to my employment with Uncle Sam before the badge. Every morning I've put on my gun wih my pants and I can say this. Self Defense with a handgun or a long gun doesn't matter. It is the mindset of the person carrying. The gun doesn't provide protection but it sure gives the user a better tool for winning.

Anyways. The key to carrying is first mindset. You have to be aware of three factors.

1. Ever situation now has a gun in play. Yours.
2. Sometimes it is better to keep it concealed and not draw.
3. If you are drawing from your holster, you better be in fear.of great bodily harm and death. Because drawing it in anger is deadly force. 

You have to be aware.of your surroundings. Know who, what, where, and when. Stay vigilant and keep your head on a swivel. Always have the radar in your head scanning. Most attacks are telegraphed. Either by the subject themselves.or the situation. 

If you're in a empty parking lot at night and someone is walking.clear across the parking lot on an intercept path towards you. That a telegraphed move. That doesn't mean you draw there and then, but you have yourself ready in case you must.

This brings us to tools. A gun is a tool, no different than flashlight or a pocket knife. A good combination is to carry all three.


S&W Model 342 .38 Special


CZ P-07 Duty .40 S&W

If you notice... I have all three there. A handgun, a flashlight, and a pocket knife. Why you might ask? Well, if I'm in the parking lot and some street urchin is approaching me. I pull the flashlight first. Shine it in his face and distract/disorient my possible attacker. It does a.couple of things. 

1. It take the element of surprise from him. 
2. It shield my actions in the dark. Now he can't see if I'm armed.or not.
3. It weakens him since now he is at a tactical disadvantage. His night vision.went to crap.

9 out of 10 times, the situation is deescalated. The bad guy now knows that I'm ready to possibly fight and he moves on to search for an easier victim.

But let's say he continues to advance. You can create distance or stand your ground. By standing your ground, you now have the choice. Do you feel threatened? Because if you take.action you have to articulate why you did. Give loud commands such as "Stay Away!" or "I don't have anything and you don't want trouble!"

Now you're getting close to having a need to break leather. In many parts of the US, you have the legam right to defend yourself where you stand. Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine is the cornerstone of why. As a law abiding citizen, you don't need to have the duty to retreat. You aren't the criminal thus you can defend yourself. But remember, you have to articulate why still. 

Remember the 21 foot rule. A bad guy armed with a blade can close the distance before you can draw and fire. Distance is key. Create it if you can. 

If you do draw, give repeated loud commands of "Back the f#ck up!" and "Stay away from me!". You simply drawing your weapon is lethal force. If you attacker still doesn't disengage. Then use lethal force if necessary. Don't try to be a movie star or a gold hearted humanitarian. You ahot center of mass unti the threat stops. No more and no less.

But why the knife you ask? Distance might be hampered by environment. Maybe you have innocent people near by. But a knife, even a simple pocket knife is sti capable of critical injuries and death.

Now lets.get to two other keey factors in carrying.

1. Belt
2. Holster


S&W Model 13 .357 Magnum, a full steel combat revolver with agood holster and belt.

You need a good belt to hold up the weight and a good holster to secure your carry piece. I specifically use re-enforced gun belts. They prevent back and hip strain. I also use good holsters. Retaining what you carry is important.

The CZ P-07 ad Blackhawk IWB Holster you see there survived a motorcycle accident. The gun never left my side and I was dragged along the asphalt. 

Another important thing is reloads. Always carry a reload. Magazines and ammo can fail. Mags are always the weak link in a semi-auto.

Engaging and shooting the bad guy(s) isn't like the movies. One shot drops are rare. You shot until the threat stops. Either because the body shuts down due to blood pressure lose, hitting the central nervous system, or your attacker quits the fight ad.surrenders or runs away. Reload are critical. 

Ammo selection isn't as critical today as it was twenty five years ago. Any modern 4th generation hallow point load will do the job. 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, 10mm Auto, etc... the key is shot placement and ammo capacity. The more the better.

Now, strapping a gun to your hip doesn't make you Rambo or John Wayne. You need to be careful and actually avoid confrontation if possible. Because remember....  no matter what there is at least one gun in play. YOURS.

Remember, this is from an American living in America. Your situation might be different. 

Stay safe and watch your six.

----------


## 199p

Nice read mate cheers

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

----------


## veitnamcam

I have questions.


As a police officer how many times have you had to fire at a perceived threat?


As an off duty PO but presumably concealed carrying? how many times have you had to fire at a perceived threat?

----------


## Frosty

Im so pleased I dont live in 'merica' , and its not because of the 'bad/urchin' guys.

----------


## LOC

carrying a phone, wallet and set of keys is annoying enough let alone wandering around with all that

----------


## SiB

Yes an interesting read. Thank you.  

You'll probably be aware private handguns are strictly confined to dedicated ranges here in NZ. 

Obtaining a handgun licence endorsement is a strict process, and whilst there are several members on this forum who are endorsed, I think it would be fair to say most of us have little, if any familiarity with using them. 

Using them for self protection (as opposed to target shooting here in NZ) is a concept most of us can only read about or see in movies. 

That's not to ignore those with military backgrounds, but I'd venture to suggest the number of handguns you'd expect to be kept/owned in one of your streets, would well exceed the number in one of our major cities! 

Nevertheless, we are all fascinated by them; this is a hunting and shooting forum after all. 

Thanks for your contribution!

----------


## veitnamcam

> Yes an interesting read. Thank you.  
> 
> *You'll probably be aware private handguns are strictly confined to dedicated ranges here in NZ. 
> *
> Obtaining a handgun licence endorsement is a strict process, and whilst there are several members on this forum who are endorsed, I think it would be fair to say most of us have little, if any familiarity with using them. 
> 
> Using them for self protection (as opposed to target shooting here in NZ) is a concept most of us can only read about or see in movies. 
> 
> That's not to ignore those with military backgrounds, but I'd venture to suggest the number of handguns you'd expect to be kept/owned in one of your streets, would well exceed the number in one of our major cities! 
> ...


Not entirely true, usage is sopost to be on an approved range only  but guns are not held by the range they are held by the owner I am fairly sure.

----------


## Rushy

Good to have a different perspective.

----------


## Ricochet

Glad I don't have to deal with any of that. Good luck I spose.

----------


## petronious_arbiter

> Not entirely true, usage is sopost to be on an approved range only  but guns are not held by the range they are held by the owner I am fairly sure.


in my limited experience, "club guns" are held by club officers/armourers, on their endorsed FALs.

----------


## veitnamcam

> in my limited experience, "club guns" are held by club officers/armourers, on their endorsed FALs.


Yes but endorsed owners keep their arms in their endorsed storage at home/work or wherever their storage is, so handguns are not "strictly confined to dedicated ranges"

----------


## Miami_JBT

> I have questions.
> 
> 
> As a police officer how many times have you had to fire at a perceived threat?
> 
> 
> As an off duty PO but presumably concealed carrying? how many times have you had to fire at a perceived threat?


I've drawn my duty weappn a number of times but thankfully I haven't had to fire in anger. The suspects have listened to my commands.

----------


## Miami_JBT

> Im so pleased I dont live in 'merica' , and its not because of the 'bad/urchin' guys.


One of the benefits of you living in a homogeneous community for the most part. NZ has done things rather differently than the US. There are trade offs. While the US does have a higher crime rate, not all of it is the wild west. 

But I'd figured I could give you guys an outsider's perspective and a good read. 

I enjoy sharing information and more importantly; getting opinions and info back. Places are different for a reason and the best way to get to know each other is through discussion.

----------


## Miami_JBT

> carrying a phone, wallet and set of keys is annoying enough let alone wandering around with all that


Pants are annoying.... come to FL during summer. 97F, 98% humidity, and enough Zika infected mosquitoes to carry you from FL to NZ. 

LOL

You'll wear jeans and instead wish you were wearing a speedo.

----------


## Miami_JBT

> Good to have a different perspective.


Glad I could be of service

----------


## Miami_JBT

> Yes an interesting read. Thank you.  
> 
> You'll probably be aware private handguns are strictly confined to dedicated ranges here in NZ. 
> 
> Obtaining a handgun licence endorsement is a strict process, and whilst there are several members on this forum who are endorsed, I think it would be fair to say most of us have little, if any familiarity with using them. 
> 
> Using them for self protection (as opposed to target shooting here in NZ) is a concept most of us can only read about or see in movies. 
> 
> That's not to ignore those with military backgrounds, but I'd venture to suggest the number of handguns you'd expect to be kept/owned in one of your streets, would well exceed the number in one of our major cities! 
> ...


NZ is better right now than some US States and Territories with gun laws regarding ownership and type.

But glad I could throw some fuel on the fire and give you guys a different perspective.

----------


## Beavis

In your perspective as a police officer;

Does CCW effect your interaction with the public, positive/negative/indifferent, or would interaction be the same regardless?

How do you feel it effects overall public safety?

Would I be right to assume that the majority of gun violence (and all violence) victims are themselves criminals?

----------


## Miami_JBT

> In your perspective as a police officer;
> 
> Does CCW effect your interaction with the public, positive/negative/indifferent, or would interaction be the same regardless?
> 
> How do you feel it effects overall public safety?
> 
> Would I be right to assume that the majority of gun violence (and all violence) victims are themselves criminals?


CCW Permits actually make my interaction with the public better. In Florida, to get a CCW Permit, you have to pass a background check, take a course put on by a certified instructor, have finger prints and photo taken and kept on file. The law abiding do that. Criminals don't. When I worked uniform and I did a traffic stop, if the driver informed me that they were carrying and had a CCW. I'd relax a little and now that they'd clear the FCIC/NCIC check since they had a permit. 

As for the overall public. Florida has over one million active CCW permits and that isn't counting those issued to out of state residents. We're the 3rd most populated State in the US and we have over 27 million calling Florida home. Our crime rate is lower than many other places in the US. NYC and Chicago for example have far higher crime rates. Their gun laws are very restrictive and their permit system to carry is even harder. Also remember, in Florida a permit is only needed to carry not own. We're "Shall Issue"; meaning if you qualify for the carry permit. You're issued one. Florida started this in 1987 and our crime rate has dropped every year. In the 1980s we were stuck in the Cocaine Drug Wars. 

Gun violence itself for the most part is crime on crime. Chicago is having a surge of gun crime right now. It's mostly thugs and gangbangers killing each other over turf and drugs. A lot of it is cultural. The law abiding are just that.... law abiding. They don't break laws.

----------


## Miami_JBT

Being on duty and off duty are different things for a cop and there is no on duty for John Q Public. Both share the same reasons for carrying. Personal protection when out and about in public. A cop might carry because of department policy (many agencies require their off duty sworn to still be armed) or possibly because they bump into their clients when out of uniform. Ive had that happen a number of times. It is a very unsettling feeling; even worse when they remember you and you dont. Which has happened to me.

Your private citizen carries for various reasons. Troubled past with an ex that makes threats. Business that involves lots of cash transactions. Having to work in more unsavory neighborhoods. Troubled economic situation and sadly having to live in a rougher part of town. Etc No matter what, they choose to exercise their Constitutional Right and carry for protection.

But like I said in the first part of this thread. Simply carrying doesnt make one safe. Guns are tools, the mind is the weapon. A famous US Supreme Court case in 1981 stated the following; Police do not owe a specific duty to provide police services to citizens based on the public duty doctrine. Translated to plain English; it means police do not have a duty to protect you individually. So that means you have to protect yourself and be trained and understand the responsibility that comes with carrying.

Okay, so youve made the decision to carry for personal protection. Now comes the nuts and bolts of the issue. What are you actually going to carry. There is a huge variety out there on what to carry. Fullsize service pistols like a Glock 17, Beretta 92FS, 1911, Sig P229, S&W Model 686, Ruger SR45, etc. then you have your compacts, subcompacts, and pocket guns. Were not even talking about carrying a revolver versus a semi-auto yet.



So lets get into carrying a fullsize service gun. What are the pros and cons you might ask.

Pros  Longer sight radius, usually a greater ammunition capacity, less recoil due to mass and size, fullsize grip.

Cons  Heavier, larger, harder to conceal under clothing and limits clothing options.

Now why would you carry a fullsize pistol? Possibly costs is a reason. Quality guns arent cheap and maybe all you can afford is one. Maybe you want to carry your department issued pistol or maybe you were trained on a service pistol in the military and you did well. Maybe you compete and you have muscle memory down pat. Carrying a fullsize pistol is doable and many do it every day.


Ruger Single Action Revolver in traditional leater IWB holster.


Glock 17 and a cops duty rig.


Glock Model 20 in an Alien Gear Hybrid IWB holster.


Sig P Series and a 1911 carried IWB.


Fullsize Glock carried OWB.

Now lets look at the compact models real quick. The compact pistols are a balance between the two extremes. You have a pistol that is a master of none, jack of all trades pistol. It can be used as a duty pistol, it can be carried concealed, and it offers the majority of the pros of a fullsize pistol without some of the cons. You usually lose some barrel length, grip length, and capacity. But you get a pistol that wears a little better.

Lets look at some of the options out there. Here you have a Browning Hi-Power (which is a service size pistol that is pretty slim and sleek), a Glock 19, a Sig P225/P6, and a S&W Model 3913.







The Hi-Power holds 13+1, the Glock 19 holds 15+1, the Sig P225/P6 holds 8+1, and the S&W 3913 holds 8+1. As you can see. They all pretty much are similar in size and width. Some are single stack and some are double stack. But like I said.. going over the actual guns are for another post.


S&W Model 5926. It is considered by some to be a compact pistol.


Beretta Model 84F in .380 Auto. One of the larger compacts in a smaller cartridge.

Now you have the subcompact.



These are given various names. Baby Glocks, mighty midgets, and Goldilocks Guns, etc But the majority of people choose to carry these. Theyre lighter, smaller, and are still capable to provide adequate protection. Originally, these guns were chambered in cartridges that were viewed here in the US as not duty capable. Normal chamberings like 9mm Kurtz, .32 Auto, 9x18mm Makarov, and .22LR. The one common subcompact carry piece that ruled the roost for many years and still has a loyal following is the snub nosed revolver in .38 Special. For generations that cartridge served as the standard bearer for law enforcement and the military. The FBI, LAPD, NYPD, and numerous other agencies issued it until the early 1990s. Today it still serves as a backup gun for many cops. But with modern advances in design both for ammunition and pistols. You now have subcompacts chambered in service cartridges like 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. The older weaker loads arent left in the dust either. Modern hollow point design has given new life in these smaller cartridges and .380 Auto has especially seen a new resurgence in popularity and capability.


S&W Model 4013 TSW in .40 S&W. 9+1 in capacity and packs a punch when needed.


Glock 26 in a DeSantis Ankle Glove. 10+1 capacity of 9mm.

The majority of the subcompact are the smallest versions of their fullsize cousins. Usually the same design, controls, and chamberings. Magazines form their larger brethren usually work in the smaller guns. But a lot of folks carry these because while there is plenty of trade off. You still have a good pistol that can be used.





Then you have the pocket pistols.


Two true pocket pistols that rule the market right now. Ruger LCP in .380 Auto a a Kel-Tec P32 in .32 Auto.

Both are extremely light, compact, and easy to carry. A Samsung Galaxy S5 cell phone takes more space in your pocket than one of these little guys. They are remedial sights if any, a capacity of 7 or less, and chambered in smaller cartridges like the .380 Auto, .32 Auto, or .25 Auto. Theyre referred to as Belly Guns, Phone Booth Fighters, pocket pieces, corner store milk run guns, etc These are guns to carry when youre limited by dress, social environment, work restrictions, and simply needing deep cover. Pocket pistols are guns you carry when you cant carry a gun basically.

Next posting with be about methods of carry. Both for men and women.

----------


## norsk

In New Zealand there are calls to arm Police.

Would you say that weapon retention in an arrest situation is paramount? Therefore  are you  more likely to draw your weapon as well as have a partner covering you, if you are  arresting someone?

My fear regarding arming Police in New Zealand,is that there will be a spate of suspects shot due to weapons being drawn during or prior to arrests.

Secondly,I feel that the carrying of a Pistol creates a barrier between the Public and the Police.Bear in mind that the Police in New Zealand have traditionally been unarmed.

----------


## Miami_JBT

> In New Zealand there are calls to arm Police.
> 
> Would you say that weapon retention in an arrest situation is paramount? Therefore  are you  more likely to draw your weapon as well as have a partner covering you, if you are  arresting someone?
> 
> My fear regarding arming Police in New Zealand,is that there will be a spate of suspects shot due to weapons being drawn during or prior to arrests.
> 
> Secondly,I feel that the carrying of a Pistol creates a barrier between the Public and the Police.Bear in mind that the Police in New Zealand have traditionally been unarmed.


This is a three part question.

1. Weapon retention is clearly paramount when it comes to making an arrest for apprehending a suspect. The training and equipment comes in to correct any issues with that. When dealing with a possibly combative subject officers are usually trained to keep their gun side away from the suspect. The holsters themselves aren't simple holsters. They are what we call Level 3 retention holsters. Meaning that there is three separate motions that has to be done to draw the firearm from the holster.

As for cover when having another officer on scene; that depends on the arrest. The majority of my arrests are peaceful and no firearm needs to be drawn. Also in my career I have made a rest without additional officers on scene. 

When dealing with a violent subject and attempting to apprehend and place into custody more officers is always better than less. There's nothing wrong both and tactics, officer safety, and scene security I'm having one officer holster his weapon while another provides cover during the arrest. It is even better when you have three officers on scene so one can provide cover with a non-lethal device like a taser and the other can provide cover with lethal force if necessary.

2. For law enforcement in the United States; drawing a weapon while constituting lethal force does not mean you have to pull the trigger when it is drawn. Plenty of times I've pointed a weapon at someone and plenty of times the message of surrender has gone through their thick heads and they stop resisting. For American law enforcement; lethal force is only authorized when there is the belief and fear of great bodily harm or death. Meaning that the subject has the ability the motive and the opportunity to take violent action against the police officer on scene or the General Public. So if I arrived on scene and a subject was armed with a butcher knife and someone was lying in a pool of blood in front of him that constitutes the use of lethal force. It also is no different than if I am speaking to someone and they suddenly become violent and draw a weapon or attack me. I could also use lethal force to defend myself.

Proper training in the use of force will prevent officers from drawing and going trigger-happy when needing to deploy said force. If your patrol officers are to be armed they need to have good proper training and mindset first and foremost before they even attempt qualifications. Proper firearms training isn't just the mechanical aspects of shooting a lot of it does go into mindset. The United States has an estimated number of 1 million - 800,000 police officers and out of the millions of encounters with law enforcement the majority are peaceful, civil, and no violence is taken. 

3. The last part of your post is more cultural and there is no direct answer to that. I personally don't have an issue with law enforcement being armed but I understand from a cultural mindset and your country that traditionally law enforcement has not been armed. Will public perception change seeing police armed? Yes. Will it be negative? Unknown.

Things do change with time and with that social norms change too. 

Back in the 1970s there was an effort to change the paramilitary look of American law enforcement. They went from the traditional Class B uniforms to that of a pair of slacks, button down shirt and tie, and a blazer with the guns hidden from public view by the Blazer. They also replaced the traditional police badge with a cloth patch on the left side of the jacket. The experiment was a disaster. Assault on Law Enforcement Officers went up and so did crime because there was no cultural authority vested in that image of police. Law enforcement went back to the traditional Class B uniform and now that is even changing with the current status of events. Gone are the traditional Class B uniforms and they are being replaced with combat boots, cargo paints, external vest with Ballistic plates, department marked polo shirts, and baseball caps instead of the traditional police officer service cap.

----------


## Kscott

> Not entirely true, usage is sopost to be on an approved range only  but guns are not held by the range they are held by the owner I am fairly sure.


He means the USE OF privately own handguns are restricted to dedicated, approved ranges. B folks keep theirs at home, otherwise we wouldn't be able to travel for comps.

Glad I live in quiet ol' NZ  :Thumbsup:  like quiet ol' Rarotonga, it's pretty peaceful overall.

----------


## WallyR

@Miami_JBT
1. Really impressed with the amount of training that police receive, regarding use of lethal force.
With recent events in other cities/States, of officers using 'lethal force' in questionable circumstances, how do you personally view these incidents.
2. Social media has a lot to do with the reaction of certain members of communities, where these unfortunate happenings occurred.
Does this place duty officers under additional, unnecessary pressure?
3. There has been an increase in the size of 'under class' of most Western societies.
Do you see an increase in crime, due to folks financial situations, turning to crime as they are unable to access employment due to lack of education, opportunity for 'on the job' training, cultural mores/behaviours and (putting it bluntly) racial discrimination?
4. Despite our egalitarian society in NZ, our society is showing increasing signs of heading in the same direction outlined above, in question 3.
Cheers

----------


## Ryan

> 4. Despite our egalitarian society in NZ, our society is showing increasing signs of heading in the same direction outlined above, in question 3.
> Cheers


I think the egalitarian train left the station ages ago.

----------


## Miami_JBT

> @Miami_JBT
> 1. Really impressed with the amount of training that police receive, regarding use of lethal force.
> With recent events in other cities/States, of officers using 'lethal force' in questionable circumstances, how do you personally view these incidents.
> 2. Social media has a lot to do with the reaction of certain members of communities, where these unfortunate happenings occurred.
> Does this place duty officers under additional, unnecessary pressure?
> 3. There has been an increase in the size of 'under class' of most Western societies.
> Do you see an increase in crime, due to folks financial situations, turning to crime as they are unable to access employment due to lack of education, opportunity for 'on the job' training, cultural mores/behaviours and (putting it bluntly) racial discrimination?
> 4. Despite our egalitarian society in NZ, our society is showing increasing signs of heading in the same direction outlined above, in question 3.
> Cheers


I'm moving this question over here....

----------


## shooternz

> Pants are annoying.... come to FL during summer. 97F, 98% humidity, and enough Zika infected mosquitoes to carry you from FL to NZ. 
> 
> LOL
> 
> You'll wear jeans and instead wish you were wearing a speedo.


Yeah that's for sure when I was visiting family there one July it was 105 F and raining didn't need to stand in the rain to get wet

----------


## WallyR

> Yeah that's for sure when I was visiting family there one July it was 105 F and raining didn't need to stand in the rain to get wet


Did ya bring out the soap?  :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

----------


## gsp follower

> My fear regarding arming Police in New Zealand,is that there will be a spate of suspects shot due to weapons being drawn during or prior to arrests.


SO IS MINE BUT MORE SO IS  THEM GETTING MORE ACCESS TO GUNS WITH THE PATHETIC AMOUNT OF GUN TRAINING TIME THEY GET NOW.
CHRIST MOST WOULDNT BE ABLE TO BE LEFT ALONE AT A CLAY SHOOT. 

PA

----------


## Taff

Leg holsters are the most uncomfortable things invented, prefer a wallet holster with a kel tec 380.

----------


## specweapon

> He means the USE OF privately own handguns are restricted to dedicated, approved ranges. B folks keep theirs at home, otherwise we wouldn't be able to travel for comps.
> 
> Glad I live in quiet ol' NZ  like quiet ol' Rarotonga, it's pretty peaceful overall.


But something I never realised and only learnt of when talking to the Local AO (because it's the biggest loophole he wants changed) is that people with C endorsement for re-enactments can, in some situations, legally carry a pistol while in their costume. For example filling up with fuel on the way to a reienactment.

----------


## gadgetman

> Anyone looking for victim keeps looking till they find someone who looks weaker.


I wonder if that is why so many people were hell bent on snacking me over?

----------


## Gapped axe

wouldn't be much of a snack out of GM:  ORLY

----------


## gadgetman

> wouldn't be much of a snack out of GM:  ORLY


Too true GA. A bit of an empty kebab skewer.

----------


## ebf

> One of the benefits of you living in a homogeneous community for the most part. NZ has done things rather differently than the US.


What do you mean by "homogenous community" ?

----------


## gsp follower

> Too true GA. A bit of an empty kebab skewer.


gadget zombies would need a pack lunch if your the only thing on the menu :Wink:  :Grin: 



> What do you mean by "homogenous community" ?


one that dont like that green top shit milk :Yaeh Am Not Durnk:

----------


## GravelBen

> ...pirouette like a special olympics gymnast...


Beatiful imagery there. Though I've never watched special olympics gymnastics, for all I know they might actually be quite good.

----------


## ebf

Id like to hear from the guy who posted it...

Was not aware that NZ has a "homogenous community".

----------


## Miami_JBT

I haven't forgotten... will be adding more. Just been busy with work.

----------


## SiB

Homogenous= intelligent gay person

They drink special milk too

Sheesh when you guys put in these big words it just forces us fellas to help those who might not understand

----------


## Gibo

> Id like to hear from the guy who posted it...
> 
> Was not aware that NZ has a "homogenous community".


You are one of us now kuz  :Grin:

----------


## ChrisF

I like the little J frame S&Ws the centenialls , fired one of the then new ones back in 91 , very nice wee gun , good for weak side , jacket pocket carry , shot thru the jacket if needed .
Also shot one of the SS  PPKs , nice , in my limited shooting with pistols , I have had more drama with modern revolvers , than modern autos .
If the ejector rod unscrews just a little on a smith , it stops you opening the cyclinder .

I like Glocks & Sigs , and hate the beretta type 92s , mate had one of the new 92Fs , flawed design , when operating the slide , alot of people end up flicking down the combined decock / safety , which decluthes the trigger mech , under stress I have seen cops , think their pistol is malfunctioning , and do stoppage drills over & over , not realising that they have tripped the safety on by accident .

----------


## ebf

> You are one of us now kuz


exactly Gibo, even gotten to the point where on Sat I was in the pub screaming for team in black, no going back now  :Zomg:

----------


## Rushy

> exactly Gibo, even gotten to the point where on Sat I was in the pub screaming for team in black, no going back now


You are doomed now ebf.

----------


## Dead is better

> In New Zealand there are calls to arm Police.
> 
> Would you say that weapon retention in an arrest situation is paramount? Therefore  are you  more likely to draw your weapon as well as have a partner covering you, if you are  arresting someone?
> 
> My fear regarding arming Police in New Zealand,is that there will be a spate of suspects shot due to weapons being drawn during or prior to arrests.
> 
> Secondly,I feel that the carrying of a Pistol creates a barrier between the Public and the Police.Bear in mind that the Police in New Zealand have traditionally been unarmed.


That boat has sailed. The last two NZ constables Ive bumped into have both been holding AR15's. After experiencing that my opinion changed, it was a crap experience but probably better for the officers haha. Having them armed in shopping malls is not so bad (I'm originally an Aussie but been here for 10yrs). They just cruise around doing their thing. Having them say "why were you speeding mate?" tends to result in you saying "Sir..." instead of "F off C#@t" like half the dropkicks that live here in NZ. 
As for will we be better off in the long run? No, but not because the police will be armed. The general trend is that criminals get guns and that supply only builds over time. There are freakin heaps more guns on the loose in Australia nowadays and that's despite ALL the draconian laws they inflicted on law abiding citizens.

----------


## Gibo

> That boat has sailed. The last two NZ constables Ive bumped into have both been holding AR15's. After experiencing that my opinion changed, it was a crap experience but probably better for the officers haha. Having them armed in shopping malls is not so bad (I'm originally an Aussie but been here for 10yrs). They just cruise around doing their thing. Having them say "why were you speeding mate?" tends to result in you saying "Sir..." instead of "F off C#@t" like half the dropkicks that live here in NZ. 
> As for will we be better off in the long run? No, but not because the police will be armed. The general trend is that criminals get guns and that supply only builds over time. There are freakin heaps more guns on the loose in Australia nowadays and that's despite ALL the draconian laws they inflicted on law abiding citizens.


Ha ha kettle black, I've seen the form of your countrymen in person and on the TV too  :Grin:

----------


## stumpy

territory cops tv show comes to mind .... just feral out that way .... mind you some of the worst look to be kiwi ....... cough cough

----------

