12G and 410 reloading set up

Hi guys, my mate is keen to buy a 12 G reloading set up with a view to getting into some low velocity reloading. Since he also has a 410 he is also keen on loading some subsonic rounds for that too ( and I will be borrowing it to have a go at loading some for my 410 as well). He also wants to shoot steel, since he will be mainly shooting blackbirds in his orchard and doesn't want too much lead there so the story goes.
So, is there any advice on loading subsonic 12G or 410 loads ( he wants to use paper wads), and/or does anyone know of a 2nd hand loading set up for sale. He will only be loading very low quantities

ok here goes

plenty of cheap and useful 12ga loaders around... subsonic is easy enough to do as most lead loads are only 11-1300 anyway
.410 loaders arent so easy to find BUT its simple matter to load for it with some really basic tools...
if you ever see a whackamole set for either guage grab it... too easy then.
now steel in orchard COULD be worse than lead....I know which I would rather have in an apple I bit into.. and the small steel shot going slow will really suck even for black birds...you can buy target loads of it to try...not many people make target loads for .12ga is its just about cheaper and a whole lot less hassle to buy falcon loads...and know they are top of the line stuff,its used all around the world for good reason.
paper wads and steell WONT WORK... the steel will scour out his barrel..steel wads are hard and thick for good reason

now...blackbirds are tiny target as is a starling... so small shot is best...7.5-8-9 sort of deal... paper wad isnt an issue..you COULD even go with a bit of wool or cardboard IF you prepared to think outside of square and go really old school and clean guns lots..blackpowder will give you lower velocity and makes the plastic wads sort of redundant...BUT NEED LEAD SHOT if going wad less. wadless will also give advantage of a spreader load.... your choke will still work but pattern will be wider which on fast moving close bird is ideal.

Cheers for the info so far Micky :)
I should have mentioned he will be shooting the 12G stuff out of a 16inch unchoked "Eterna" super cheap 12G

your ONLY advantages with low velocity are if using suppressor...eg if below speed of sound it will be quieter, marginally tighter loads possible,lesser carrying distance..but thats not really a 'thing" as such you will drop killing power by quite a lot. I will do google search and see if can find link to the handload four ten thing again... there are some easier ways to do things too..actually no need see wingmans awesome everlasting .410 thread.... you
can do the same thing with a plastic hull...and overshot wads. break open guns allow you to get away with all sorts that a repeater wont feed.

16" unchoked...I sure hope he got good earmuffs or will go deaf very quickly....that will be ideal for a black powder hardcase load...all depeds on how serious he wants to get. he wont hit birds much past 20 yards unless very lucky and will definately want small shot to give good pellet count.
steel shot loads are LOUDER than lead as powder is different... REALLY LOUD and naasty type of loud too. the ASTEEL light n fast loads I made up killed well but holy smoke did they bark.

First the disclaimer: Reloading is done at your own risk. If you blow your fingers off, don't point the blame at me. Get a reloading book and stick with the recipes given there or on Hodgdon.com

The pictures for each step are linked at the bottom.

1. Place the hull over a 5/16" socket. Using a small punch, tap out the old primer.

2. Slide the hull over a bit driver*. Press the hull down onto the new primer until it sits flush.
*Not all bit drivers will fit into a .410 hull. Anything that will fit into the hull, but leaves room for the primer in the middle will work. Be careful not to stretch the hull or it won't chamber properly.

3. Measure the proper amount of powder according to the recipe you chose. Magnum pistol powders like H110/296 are commonly used. Use a small funnel to pour it into the hull.

4. Use the punch to seat a wad firmly over the powder. Most .410 wads are the same for all hulls and loads, both 2 1/2" and 3" hulls.

5. Measure the proper amount of shot and pour it in over the wad.

6. Start the crimp by hand using the existing folds.

7. Push a 7/16" 1/4 drive socket down over the crimp (6 point sockets fit better). Push until the crimp comes together, then use the punch through the hole in the socket to invert the crimp slightly. Sometimes I push the finished shell into the small funnel to shrink the crimped area if it got stretched.

That is all there is to it. Always use standard safety practices when reloading. I hope this helps some people save a little bit of money. If you need pictures to make any step make more sense, click here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1115863...eat=directlink



hopefully that link worked...thats copy n pasted from one of many hits on first search I did for .410 loading by hand

yeah I think he wants to sort out an over barrel suppressor for the 12G
Yeah MD I saw that thread from Wingman, pretty serious stuff :)
I don't think my mate is fixed on using steel, obviously I told him about the need for higher velocities for steel over lead etc..
Both his 12G and 410 are break open

Cheers for the link and 410 steps Micky, much appreciated mate :)

I did do a small amount of 12G reloading about 30 years ago helping someone ( I forget now) and remember how very basic is was.
I had hoped you could get an adapter for a 12G press to do 410 as well but it sounds a bit trickier than that

@Fssprecision might want to chime in..as he makes them

Fingers crossed :D I have ogled over his fully suppressed barrels and work

Hi Guys i will add my 10cents in regards to FSS Great chap and easy to deal with
there are a few of his makes down this way hahaa i am his southern tester so to speak
the 12g is hard to suppress ,because of the big hole hahaa but it can be done with subsonic loads [not movie sound though ]shot some 7/8 oz solids subsonic loading via a store bought can thats still on sale at the moment . the impact of this was louder than the muzzle noise ..
too hard to get it hushed just using a ported barrel and can with full power shot .
410,s are far easier to hush .Fss has had long barrels with long o/barrel that worked well but he now does a much shorter design .and they are very close to the same noise level . My 410 is fitted with a full choke inside the suppresser [custom mod ] legal length barrel .#4 for possums and wabbits shot from the hip just using a tight spot on the light thats clamped to the barrel & adjusted to POI [night shooting ]
With 410 reloading i can use the normal single stage reloading gear [made my own dies ] and roll the end of the shell with those bits that fit a drill .very nice results ..
cheers

Thanks for the input gents, as has been said I make fully suppressed 410s (now based on the Rossi Montenegro), now my goal was always to be able to use off the shelf standard ammo so I have never played around with reloading. There is a lot to do in order to make a shotgun really quiet (like very comfortably hearing safe), the first thing is extensively port the barrel to drop the velocity to sub-sonic (really not going to be that quiet unless you don't).

I did make a few fully suppressed 12Gs and they worked very well (think like a suppressed 22 but with full 3" standard shells), I made about 6 but they were a mission to make and very heavy and more like artillery ha ha.

As for the various other makes that just clamp on to the muzzle, can't really comment as I have not extensively tried them but know what is involved in mine to get them to where they are now....so I guess it depends what you definition of suppressed is.

Just for you interest I have attached a couple of photos of the new suppressed 410, this one I also got the stock hydro-dipped which I thing came out great.

Cheers

Darren

I see NO SLUG on the side...why is that???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I see NO SLUG on the side...why is that???

---

First thing is that slugs run a whole lot faster (1850 or so) therefore are loud, also with the barrels extensively ported and the internal features I use these things are quiet and really designed for shot so just not really suitable for that.

yip that makes sense..for a pighunter a 3-5 00BUCKSHOT load is much better idea anyway...dead easy to use.