180gr eld M from a 20" 284win

Gidday team.

So after finally figuring out my double grouping issue with my 284win. Being the nylon bushing on my DPT suppressor isn't free floating and the bases were poked.

I've gone and grouped it with x2 5 shot groups using 162gr eld M. COAL of 3.252 , Lapua Cases, Fed LR primers and Superformance powder. This barrel has done just shy of 80 rounds. It's a shillen 1 in 8 twist and isn't quite shooting as I'd like.

So next step is to change the pill or the powder. I'm going to go the pill route and see how that goes as I think it may shoot the 180gr eld M better however I am mindful of the velocity loss for wind drift etc.

So my question is for those who have 284win and shoot the 180gr eld M(rem 700 LA) what real world speeds am I likely to get from a 20" barrel with said powder?


I'm all ears folks!

For perspective it's grouping 1.2" with 5 rounds.Attachment 265437 as seen in the picture for reference. The 2 ragged holes are promising but the spread from the outer shots isn't ideal. This is my tops rig and ultimately I'd like to get it shooting better is all.

The 5 shots in question are the top 5

Shoot 5 more rounds into that group to get a better idea of accuracy.

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Originally Posted by McNotty

Shoot 5 more rounds into that group to get a better idea of accuracy.

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Wouldn’t imagine it get any smaller with 5 more

Whats the ES?

@matto1234

67 for the ES which is also quite high.

The thing is for the 2 5 round groups I've fired as I've been reading up about shooting 5 round groups etc of late. This rifle load combo consistently shoots 2 rounds ragged hole with a few over the place which is why I'm wondering with the projectile I'm using is it might be not quite right for the twist rate of the barrel? I am more than happy to be proven wrong etc

Not quite real world, but GRT suggests around 2600 or so at max charge (SF with 180 ELDM).

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

For perspective it's grouping 1.2" with 5 rounds.Attachment 265437 as seen in the picture for reference. The 2 ragged holes are promising but the spread from the outer shots isn't ideal. This is my tops rig and ultimately I'd like to get it shooting better is all.

The 5 shots in question are the top 5

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I was always told double grouping pointed to a bedding issue.

Im running 180's in my 20" 284 - 2590fps but thats with Re19 not superformance sorry.

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Originally Posted by earplay

Not quite real world, but GRT suggests around 2600 or so at max charge (SF with 180 ELDM).

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@earplay

Cheers for that. Somewhere in the 2500-2550 range for a 180gr eld M would be ideal.

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Originally Posted by wsm junkie

I was always told double grouping pointed to a bedding issue.

Im running 180's in my 20" 284 - 2590fps but thats with Re19 not superformance sorry.

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Yeah that's what I was of the understand of but the nylon bushing not free floating and bases on the rifle being poked would've done the same thing according to a smith I took it to. Got a leupold rail popped on after checking the bedding which was fine etc so yeah that side of it is now fixed. Na that's alright it definitely gives me a good idea of real world performance so thanks for taking the time to share you're data!

I’d try some different powder charges, different seating depths or a different powder and see what it’s capable of with those 162’s as they should be fine in a 1:8 twist.

Hodgdon Superperformance is an awesome powder with and ES that high probably need to change something.
Or check reloading process what's the SD

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I weigh every charge individually on redding beam scales to the individual granule. I'm using a old fashioned shoot through chronograph which could be giving un true readings also

That vertical stringing will be most of the issue, go up/down in powder charges to get a lower es and then play with seating depths if its still not grouping

162s should work well, try changing powder and depths. RL26 works well in shorter barrels, I started using it in my 20” 280ai and am getting close to rem mag speeds with 162s

Superformance is double based. It's going to be more temperature sensitive and is not going to give as good extreme spreads and standard deviations as something single based.

20" 284, I used to get a steady 2590 using AR2213SC, or a twitchy 2750 using Re26.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

Superformance is double based. It's going to be more temperature sensitive and is not going to give as good extreme spreads and standard deviations as something single based.

20" 284, I used to get a steady 2590 using AR2213SC, or a twitchy 2750 using Re26.

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I use Superperformance in 5 different calibers all give SD in single digets with great accuracy

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

I use Superperformance in 5 different calibers all give SD in single digets with great accuracy

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All the same, I bet if you were to try it across a wide range of conditions, different times of year, with a good chrono, and decent sample sizes, you'd see an improvement to ES/SD with something made by ADI.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

All the same, I bet if you were to try it across a wide range of conditions, different times of year, with a good chrono, and decent sample sizes, you'd see an improvement to ES/SD with something made by ADI.

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I have tried most ADI but have found their slow burning powders lacking in performance the only powder that I found better is RL 26 but I couldn't justify the extra cost.

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Recently had similar issues in my mates prc and my 284.

Mates prc with superformance gave similar results to what you have got. Tracked down some rl26 problem solved. ES 6 and half moa.

My 284 with 162 eldm and Rl17 again similar results. Impressed by the rl26 I have some rl16 loaded up and ready to try.

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Originally Posted by Bobba

Recently had similar issues in my mates prc and my 284.

Mates prc with superformance gave similar results to what you have got. Tracked down some rl26 problem solved. ES 6 and half moa.

My 284 with 162 eldm and Rl17 again similar results. Impressed by the rl26 I have some rl16 loaded up and ready to try.

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Hi Bobba that gives me some sort of comfort.

What I've come to the conclusion of is Instead of a COAL of 3.252 I'll seat them to being a COAL of 3.200 and see where that gets me. They are currently at 10 thou jump with the COAL of 3.252

I'll drop the powder charge down to 53.0gr due to increased pressure and just group it and see how that goes. If it tightens up then I know I'm heading the right way, if it doesn't well it's not seating depth per se

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Originally Posted by Rock river arms hunter

Hi Bobba that gives me some sort of comfort.

What I've come to the conclusion of is Instead of a COAL of 3.252 I'll seat them to being a COAL of 3.200 and see where that gets me. They are currently at 10 thou jump with the COAL of 3.252

I'll drop the powder charge down to 53.0gr due to increased pressure and just group it and see how that goes. If it tightens up then I know I'm heading the right way, if it doesn't well it's not seating depth per se

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You mention dropping the powder charge due to the "increased pressure". Where are you expecting the increase to come from?


I have a 7mm/300wsm bartlein barrel that likes 175gr eldx but as much as i want it to like the 162gr eld-m it just wont shoot it better than moa. In your case I'd just go straight to trying a different pill like the 175 or 180gr like you mention instead of persisting with the 162.

Yes, don’t change the powder charge while playing with seating depth. Alter one variable only.

I’ve got 165 grain tgk’s that my rifle won’t shoot that you can try. Yours might like them. Some reloader 19 and 2209 as well if you would like to try something different

I was using adi 2209 with the 162gr in my 18inch 284.
Can't recall charge weight or velocity but it grouped OK and took more than a few deer and goats before I rebarreled it

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Originally Posted by Roarless20

You mention dropping the powder charge due to the "increased pressure". Where are you expecting the increase to come from?


I have a 7mm/300wsm bartlein barrel that likes 175gr eldx but as much as i want it to like the 162gr eld-m it just wont shoot it better than moa. In your case I'd just go straight to trying a different pill like the 175 or 180gr like you mention instead of persisting with the 162.

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If you don't mind me asking what sort of speed vs barrel length your 7mm-300wsm

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

If you don't mind me asking what sort of speed vs barrel length your 7mm-300wsm

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Its a 2nd hand barrel i recently bought from here. 24",
175gr eldx, 63.5gr Rl26 @2950fps (no pressure signs), 65gr RL26 @3075fps (ejector stamp everytime, load came with barrel but i pulled them all. One had no powder in it :omg:).
162gr eld-m - RL26 @ 3100fps (safe load) @3200fps (hot). Ar2209 59.5gr @ 3007fps. Ar2213 @ 2940fps.
Hornady .270wsm brass necked up.

Something nobody talks about with these types of rifles is correct shooting technique. Do you have other high recoiling rifles that you can shoot consistently good groups with?

Once the recoil goes much above a 308 on a lightweight rifle, you cant just slap it on a bipod and a rear bag and point it in the right direction. Make sure you are good and square behind the rifle and ideally shoot off front and rear bags, gripping the forend and having your hand between the rifle and the front bag. Position should essentially be like unsupported prone, but with bags under your front hand and the rear of the rifle. If you must shoot off a bipod, load it forward, and do it consistently. If you have a factory stock, loading will probably lead to vertical stringing.

Nobody likes having their shooting abilities questioned, but its worth looking into.

I shoot a very light .284 and can clearly see the effect of poor technique when I am not setup properly.

Yes, agree. Correct & consistent shooting position & technique is real important to being able to shoot tight groups consistently. I find if I’ve not been to the range for a while I have to “re-learn” this lesson. And more so when changing between different rifles. I always do my load dev prone off a bipod as this is most likely what I’ll be doing for longer range shots in the field. While you probably have a better chance shooting tight wee grps off a more stable platform like a bench rest it’s not really an aid you can replicate on the hill.

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Originally Posted by chainsaw

Yes, agree. Correct & consistent shooting position & technique is real important to being able to shoot tight groups consistently. I find if I’ve not been to the range for a while I have to “re-learn” this lesson. And more so when changing between different rifles. I always do my load dev prone off a bipod as this is most likely what I’ll be doing for longer range shots in the field. While you probably have a better chance shooting tight wee grps off a more stable platform like a bench rest it’s not really an aid you can replicate on the hill.

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I agree this is how you should zero a hunting rifle, however for load dev I am trying to remove as many variables as possible and measure just the load, so I do load dev from bags, either prone or on a bench.

Zero and training are then done in field conditions.

Haven't owned a 284 but have pissed around with heaps of 7mms
First up i wouldn't expect superformance to be the goer for 180s. But if it is then you may find a lesser powder charge more accurate.
I say this as I have done a heap of load development chasing fps with superformance, rl22, rl26 and 2217 in 7mms. Combining this with too many seating depth combos and all they ever needed was to be backed of by 50 - 80 fps to group within 1 inch @300 yards.
The flip side to all this is if you shot 100 animals with the 162eld and 100 with the 180eldm you would probably choose the least finicky of the two loads as you wouldn't be able to tell the difference on performance.

That first image doesn’t look classic double group to me. More like classic larger group.

I would have thought that unless you have an 1:8 twist, the 180s would be sub optimal and you maybe seeing that?


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Originally Posted by Dicko

That first image doesn’t look classic double group to me. More like classic larger group.

I would have thought that unless you have an 1:8 twist, the 180s would be sub optimal and you maybe seeing that?


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It says in the very first post it's a 1:8 twist :thumbsup: