Thread: 25 Cal these days

I see Brian is getting his 250/3000 out and about. The 250 isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I see Brian is getting his 250/3000 out and about. The 250 isn't new by any stretch of the imagination.

He's sentimental about the 250-3000 'cos they were both born in the same year.

That's harsh @Tahr,
That would make Brian 109 years old this year.
I was leafing through a stack of Handloaders the other day and in 2018 Layne Simpson reported on a cartridge he had had since 1981. It was the .250 Savage improved (not the AI). It had a 30 degree shoulder and other than a few thou here and there was the .25 Creedmoor that is causing so much hysteria currently. Not much actually new in the world.
Regard Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

That's harsh @Tahr,
That would make Brian 109 years old this year.
I was leafing through a stack of Handloaders the other day and in 2018 Layne Simpson reported on a cartridge he had had since 1981. It was the .250 Savage improved (not the AI). It had a 30 degree shoulder and other than a few thou here and there was the .25 Creedmoor that is causing so much hysteria currently. Not much actually new in the world.
Regard Grandpamac.

Need to shake off the 'cartridge' mindset and get with the 'bullet' one.

The mindset of 'if I get this bullet going fast enough, then ballistics won't matter', is just wrong. The faster you push a bullet, the more resistance it encounters when moving through the air.

A .22-250 cranked to the max with a 45 or 50 grain bullet doing 4k fps may look impressive, but by 300m, it's lost out to the .223 using a 70-80 grain bullet doing 2,700 fps.

The issue with older cartridges is that they are usually designed around older bullets fired at lower pressures, or the cases are out of production, or poor quality brass. Sometimes both, resulting in people paying over the odds for duff brass (RSAUM's and WSM's before the boutique brands started making them, as the cartridge brass sold by Remington or Winchester to reloaders was either surplus from production lines, or out of spec...).

Some cartridges like the 6.5x55 have had a new lease of life with the large range of quality, modern bullets being produced. However, they often encounter the issue of the rifle not being designed with sufficient magazine length to accommodate the long, sleek bullets.

If the Boers had 180 ELDM's loaded in their 7x57's, the pile of dead Brits would have been even higher...

So what your saying is that with modern powders and improved bullet designs older cartridges will do everything the new "wonderkin" can do☺️

@Marty Henry kind of...

He is also saying that new cartridge designs are SAMI spec'd for faster twists and the correct throat depth to make the most of modern bullets and powders. these are off the shelf rifles ready to go.
many but not all of the older cartridges stated above would need an aftermarket barrel in a faster twist and deeper throat to be able to run modern heavy for caliber bullets

Originally Posted by kiwi303

@Marty Henry kind of...

He is also saying that new cartridge designs are SAMI spec'd for faster twists and the correct throat depth to make the most of modern bullets and powders. these are off the shelf rifles ready to go.
many but not all of the older cartridges stated above would need an aftermarket barrel in a faster twist and deeper throat to be able to run modern heavy for caliber bullets

Yup, Hornady have been over this ground many a time in their podcast.

Remington already laid the groundwork with their 260 Rem and RSAUM designs, difference with Hornady is that they actually bothered to optimise the cartridges with good bullets and the chamber/case designs to match, then not abandon their own product, as Remington did...

Yes, in theory, the 260 Rem has slightly more case capacity than the 6.5CM, same goes for 7mm Rem Mag vs 7PRC.

But by the time you plug in a custom barrel cut with custom reamer, cartridges loaded to perfection with custom dies, expensive brass and unicorn dust powder, you are several thousand dollars and at the very least a few hundred rounds behind the bloke who bought a factory rifle chambered in a Hornady offering, grabbed 5 boxes of factory ammo and went shooting/hunting...

That's the value of hindsight and innovating previous innovations.

Anyone do any loading for the 25-303? I've got one in the safes and was on the ballistics calculator last night. A87gt pill going 3000fps with a 25 yard zero shoots back to zero at 275m with only 3 inches of rise between that.

Any of you old boys got some tips for loading the 25-303?

Originally Posted by Bos

Attachment 245706

Heres a 6.5 06 that shoots 143 gr ELD-X's very tight- Just a 25.06 necked out to 6.5
No factory ammo available so need to reload for it

the 6.8/06 is much more common and with modern powders and sleak projectiles is doing rather well for itself....should really be called the 7mm-o6 as .277 is closer to 7mm than anything else afterall.

Originally Posted by SeftonB

Anyone do any loading for the 25-303? I've got one in the safes and was on the ballistics calculator last night. A87gt pill going 3000fps with a 25 yard zero shoots back to zero at 275m with only 3 inches of rise between that.

Any of you old boys got some tips for loading the 25-303?

If you find someone, let me know.
Got one to try myself but needs a couple of things doing to it

Originally Posted by SeftonB

Anyone do any loading for the 25-303? I've got one in the safes and was on the ballistics calculator last night. A87gt pill going 3000fps with a 25 yard zero shoots back to zero at 275m with only 3 inches of rise between that.

Any of you old boys got some tips for loading the 25-303?

Greetings @SeftonB,
Cyril Waterworth had some data in his book. Most of the powders you can't get anymore but the loads were similar to the .250-3000 Savage. With wildcats you never know exactly what you have and it would be wise to compare the case capacity with the Savage. You need to do this with a case fired from your rifle. If the capacity is the same or more than the Savage then a start load from the latter data could be chronographed to establish a base line to work from. ADI has some data.
Regards Grandpamac.

I've always wanted to have a 25-303. Just because anything 303 has to be fun! My mate in Oz reckons there's still plenty over there

Originally Posted by bumblefoot

I've always wanted to have a 25-303. Just because anything 303 has to be fun! My mate in Oz reckons there's still plenty over there

You can still get dies etc easy enough over there too

@csmiffy and @SeftonB I have data for 25-303 pm email and I can send to you. not sure how current the powders are but it will give you something to go off