284 Hammer projectiles in my 7mm-08

I have been experimenting with 140 gr Absolute Hammer in my 7mm-08 . (Remmington 700 )
settled on 44.5 grains of 2208 ( 45gr is hot/ sticky lifts on bolt ) V=2900 ft/sec ave
No pressure , in Norma brass , CCI primers , COAL 2.8 , Barrell at 22 inch , accuracy better than 1 MOA .
My calcs = 1800 ft/secs/ 1000 ft/lbs at 600 yds

I like these projectiles , and have used them on deer . They work well . Look them up https://hammerbullets.com/
These projectiles are unique . They are not like other copper bullets in that the driving bands produce lower pressure that other projectiles .



NOTE TO ALL .
Gordons reloading tool predicted the load to be too DANGEROUS to use at well over 70,000 lbs of pressure and a velocity of about 3000 ft/sec .
I worked this load up from 43 grains to 45 grains. Pressure signs were evident at 45 grains in slightly flat primer and sticky bolt lift, and i "felt "the load in the recoil.
I am confident to tell all , there is no doubt this is compressed load. However, there was nothing particularly noticeable in the building of the load . I did not measure "neck tension " but did add the very slightest crimp pressure

Use this info at your own risk

I had a quick look at their website. Looks like it would cost around $325nzd for 100 of the 140s landed in NZ buying from them direct. Did you go about this a different way? A bit too rich for me.

I have always been interested in monolithic projectiles and it seems a lot of work is happening to get them up to spec for hunting by a bunch of different companies.

I have a contact with a hammer projectile fanboy in aussie.
He begs borrows and steals any projectiles ( usually means he gets them.brought in by people and in lots), and is quite good to talk to.
Sont knowing he does every single projectile and i didnt push the button but might be worth a crack

Yep , the exchange rate is truely shithouse right now , but.............
FYI , I have two loads that work well . One for the 120 gr ( shoots 0.5 MOA at 400 mts ) and one for the above 140 gr ( 0.9 moa ) . Which means for you , if you split a box with somebody ( and all things being equal ) you have no load developement meaning no waste and you will get 2 and a half boxes each of something truely special for about 200 bucks each . Just saying

Meant to tell you as well ...
I did import some , and then ( while in the states recently ) bought some back . SO, I paid about 200 NZD per 100 ( first import ) and 150 nzd as luggage .

124gn Hammer Hunter in my .308 are shooting tiny little groups.
7mm Hammer Hunter in my .280ai went well too.

I think you will find the Absolute Hammer is different again but can achieve better velocities due to design.

Yes, that Aussie fan Boy is great to deal with if you are able to import by mail ????

Nz has no problem importing projectiles . There are no import restrictions for projectiles, or brass .

Shit that's a hot load, I did a ladder test in the quest of speed with my 708 using 2208, didn't get anywhere near 45gr. I had sticky bolt and primers starting to back out at 44gr v 2828fps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LJPRMC

I have been experimenting with 140 gr Absolute Hammer in my 7mm-08 . (Remmington 700 )
settled on 44.5 grains of 2208 ( 45gr is hot/ sticky lifts on bolt ) V=2900 ft/sec ave
No pressure , in Norma brass , CCI primers , COAL 2.8 , Barrell at 22 inch , accuracy better than 1 MOA .
My calcs = 1800 ft/secs/ 1000 ft/lbs at 600 yds

I like these projectiles , and have used them on deer . They work well . Look them up https://hammerbullets.com/
These projectiles are unique . They are not like other copper bullets in that the driving bands produce lower pressure that other projectiles .



NOTE TO ALL .
Gordons reloading tool predicted the load to be too DANGEROUS to use at well over 70,000 lbs of pressure and a velocity of about 3000 ft/sec .
I worked this load up from 43 grains to 45 grains. Pressure signs were evident at 45 grains in slightly flat primer and sticky bolt lift, and i "felt "the load in the recoil.
I am confident to tell all , there is no doubt this is compressed load. However, there was nothing particularly noticeable in the building of the load . I did not measure "neck tension " but did add the very slightest crimp pressure

Use this info at your own risk

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Greetings @LJPRMC,
I have to agree with the Gordons reloading tool that that is a dangerously hot load. Book max for non solid copper projectiles runs between 42 and 43 grains of AR2208 so you are 2 grains north of that. Your velocity at 2,900 fps is 100 fps higher than book max loads in your barrel length another pressure warning. The extra velocity works out to about 2 extra grains of powder which is where you are. Working up looking for pressure signs often results in loads that develop pressure in the 70,000 PSI range so you are in dangerous territory by any measure. If you must have 2,900 fps a larger case is the safe option rather than over loading a 7mm-08.
Regards Grandpamac.

The difference is the projectile. Check out the specifics of the 140 gr Absolute hammer https://hammerbullets.com/ . The protectile is unique in its design . There is nothing like it . The company makes several different projectiles , and i also use the 120 Hammer Hunter ( 3042 ft/sec ) from them , but the 140 gr absolute is different to all others . check it out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @LJPRMC,
I have to agree with the Gordons reloading tool that that is a dangerously hot load. Book max for non solid copper projectiles runs between 42 and 43 grains of AR2208 so you are 2 grains north of that. Your velocity at 2,900 fps is 100 fps higher than book max loads in your barrel length another pressure warning. The extra velocity works out to about 2 extra grains of powder which is where you are. Working up looking for pressure signs often results in loads that develop pressure in the 70,000 PSI range so you are in dangerous territory by any measure. If you must have 2,900 fps a larger case is the safe option rather than over loading a 7mm-08.
Regards Grandpamac.

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I was already thinking the same, thanks for chiming in, people often look for "pressure signs" sticky bolt, flattened primers, cratered primers, hard extraction etc etc these can be signs of pressure but the most accurate pressure sign in most cases sign is velocity if your velocity is in excess of book max you are in the danger zone
I think a lot of people (myself included at times) get caught up in book max velocity and trying to emulate it or exceed it as a target, remember book max is often based on pressure not velocity.... the older I get the less I am tempted to dance in the danger zone.
If you need more hp go for a cartridge that can deliver it without the risk of exploding next to your face.
Also running over max loads will just trash your brass quicker (loose primer pockets, split necks case head seperating etc etc).
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. ...

form the website for you guys .............
Absolute Hammers are very similar to the Hammer Hunter bullets with the same 1.5mm hollow point and the same basic form. We designed the Absolute Hammer so that it can not be engraved on the ogive of the bullet. The only part of the bullet that encounters the barrel is the PDR drive bands. This greatly reduced the engraving pressure of the bullet which in turn increased the potential velocity in most cartridges. Because of the very low engraving pressure the Absolute Hammers do not line up well with conventional bullet loading data. They should only be loaded by expert reloaders that are capable of working up a load without any supporting data.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LJPRMC

form the website for you guys .............
Absolute Hammers are very similar to the Hammer Hunter bullets with the same 1.5mm hollow point and the same basic form. We designed the Absolute Hammer so that it can not be engraved on the ogive of the bullet. The only part of the bullet that encounters the barrel is the PDR drive bands. This greatly reduced the engraving pressure of the bullet which in turn increased the potential velocity in most cartridges. Because of the very low engraving pressure the Absolute Hammers do not line up well with conventional bullet loading data. They should only be loaded by expert reloaders that are capable of working up a load without any supporting data.

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No hate and it's your face next to it but is .5gn under sticky bolt really where you wanna be ? That's still fizzing ifyou discount all the book max stuff.....

Greetings,
Also they say on their site not to exceed maximum velocities for the same weight of projectile in loading manuals. You are doing this by around 100 fps or 2 grains of powder. The sentence about only being loaded by expert reloaders looks like arse covering to me. The product looks like a niche product for those that must have something different. The failure of the manufacturer to offer any loading data is a big red flag to me. I have been handloading for 50 years and I don't count myself as an expert and never work up a load without any supporting data. That bit sounds like an appeal to vanity to me.
Regards Grandpamac.

Greetings Once More,
I thought it might be useful to expand a little on how I go about setting a target velocity for handloads. First data is gathered from the pressure tested on line data put up by the projectile and powder companies. For this exercise data from what I refer to as soft. medium and hard was collated. Soft is thin jacketed flat base projectiles like the Hornady Interlock and the Remington Corelokt. Medium are the boat tail projectiles with thicker jackets like the Nosler AB and hard are the solid copper boat tail projectiles. The mediums are longer than the softs so take up more powder space and the solid copper longer still. Using AR2208, 140 grain projectiles
and adjusting for the 22" barrel max loads and velocities gives the following results.

Soft Projectiles 43.5 grains of AR2208 for 2,830 fps.
Medium projectiles 42.2 grains of AR2208 for 2,780 fps.
Hard Projectiles 41.2 grains of AR2208 for 2,740 fps.

Part of the reason for the reduced charge as you progress from soft to hard is the increased amount of case volume taken up by the projectile when seated to mag length. This occurs even if the projectile has, or the manufacturer claims have some type of trick ogive and grooves.
I recently went through this process for a friend using the Remington 140 grain projectile and AR2208. I classed the projectile as soft and able to use the Hodgdon data for the 139 grain Interlock I tested 42.5 grains of AR2208 which chronographed 2,760 fps when corrected for a 22" barrel which shot well so we stopped there.
For the Hammer projectile I would recommend a max of no more than 41.5 grains of AR2208 and expect a velocity of about 2,750 fps. Neither you or the deer will notice the difference in performance and it does not risk the rifle blowing up in your face.
Regards Grandpamac.

HI, luckily Charlie of GRT and in the forum, has decided to rerun the tests that I have done .
For those that can see the forum , the conversation is happening at this time and the commentary at this time is that special allowances do need to be built into the GRT tool for these special projectiles . look the conversation up. So far Charlie has applied a reduction of bullet friction ( -80 bar ) for the special characteristics of the projectile , and the initial pressure has been lowered to 1450 psi ( from3636 psi ) for the same reason .and Charlie ( who i believe is an expert in this discussion ) has also gone onto revise the qualities of the ADI 2208 as well . .
The OBT is now almost perfect for all measured in field parameters.
So for those that are fmilar with the GRT forum I speak off here is the link https://discord.com/channels/6210392...08252824273046
Despite the commentary from one , this is not a vanity project . This is a discussion concerning a new, and unique projectile that is behaving quite differently comparing all others, and my own testing suggests ( as does charlies rerun ) there appears to be something here .
If you get to the forum and find Charlies commentary to me , look at his own GRT workups for the load which he has included , and particularly look up the one with the OBT file attached and Charlies notes . I think you will be surprised at his conclusions . I have attached a pic of two cases from the ladder . Attachment 210149

Grandpamac, ironically your load projection for "soft " is exactly spot on for these solid copper bullets ( i know this because they are the same results as my own testing with these projectiles ) The thing is , and this is the discussion, Hammer projectiles in the Absoulute Hammer design are not behaving like solid copper projectiles. I feel in need to repeat the point . These projectiles made by Hammer , and particularly the "Absolute Hammer" projectile seem to have the abilty to carry more velocity ( than you would expect ) without the same increases in pressure as you would expect .

How does one get these projectiles without taking hammering on the shipping? Anyone ordering some soon?

Greetings @LJPRMC,
I don't doubt for a minute that you got the same velocity for the same charge but the soft, medium and hard loads given were all at the same pressure. Use the soft charge with the medium projectile and the pressure will be borderline hot. Use the soft charge with a hard projectile and the pressure will be over max. Add another grain and, you know what I am going to say.
You may think that I am rejecting the statements on the web site out of hand. Over the years I have seen far too many claims made for magic projectiles, cartridges and rifles and only tend to believe the claims when they are backed by hard pressure tested data, something that Hammer has failed to provide. Their statements are vague, lacking in substance and above all proof.
I went out to the shed and measured one of the 139 grain Hornady Interlock projectiles that the soft data is based on. It was 28.7mm in length the same weight SST was 32.4mm. I would expect the 140 grain Hammer to be longer still. Your M700 mag is limited in length so you wind up seating all the projectiles to the same length. The extra projectile length has to go somewhere and that is down into the case. This raises pressure and is one of the reasons that Barnes recommended dropping a projectile weight with their projectiles.
Regards Grandpamac.

Book load data are always on the conservative side. From what I can see the load looks fine.
I have loaded the 143 hammer in my 7mm saum and it hauls arse. Every load I fired at a piece of paper shot through the same hole. Never did find its max load but figured at that accuracy who cares. Have shot around 6 reds with that load - they didn't like it!

Found a pics
[ATTACH]210168

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings Once More,
I thought it might be useful to expand a little on how I go about setting a target velocity for handloads. First data is gathered from the pressure tested on line data put up by the projectile and powder companies. For this exercise data from what I refer to as soft. medium and hard was collated. Soft is thin jacketed flat base projectiles like the Hornady Interlock and the Remington Corelokt. Medium are the boat tail projectiles with thicker jackets like the Nosler AB and hard are the solid copper boat tail projectiles. The mediums are longer than the softs so take up more powder space and the solid copper longer still. Using AR2208, 140 grain projectiles
and adjusting for the 22" barrel max loads and velocities gives the following results.

Soft Projectiles 43.5 grains of AR2208 for 2,830 fps.
Medium projectiles 42.2 grains of AR2208 for 2,780 fps.
Hard Projectiles 41.2 grains of AR2208 for 2,740 fps.

Part of the reason for the reduced charge as you progress from soft to hard is the increased amount of case volume taken up by the projectile when seated to mag length. This occurs even if the projectile has, or the manufacturer claims have some type of trick ogive and grooves.
I recently went through this process for a friend using the Remington 140 grain projectile and AR2208. I classed the projectile as soft and able to use the Hodgdon data for the 139 grain Interlock I tested 42.5 grains of AR2208 which chronographed 2,760 fps when corrected for a 22" barrel which shot well so we stopped there.
For the Hammer projectile I would recommend a max of no more than 41.5 grains of AR2208 and expect a velocity of about 2,750 fps. Neither you or the deer will notice the difference in performance and it does not risk the rifle blowing up in your face.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Firstly , I use Gordons reloading tool alot . I am very familiar with it and because i use .284 projectiles in my 7mm-08 i have loaded many different companies bullets . Neither hornady or remington make 140 gr projectiles in .284 . Nosler do make 140 accubond and i have loaded those. Your load of 42.2 grains of either hogdon ( Varget ) or ADI 2208 is hotter than my max in the same length barrell of 22inches , COAL at 2.8 , case volume at 55.3 grains
So what can I say ? . I use several loading manuals including Nosler and Hornady . I have subscriptions to other online data bases as well , but i am most confident with Gordons Reloading tool . So. heres what GRT says about 42.2 of Varget or 2208 under the 140 gr nosler accubond, its in the same game as the 140 gr Hammer absolute, over pressure. But is it really ? Obviously you say not . The thing about the accubond is that it requies twice the initial pressure to get started, unlike every other Nosler 140 gr in .284 . If you had said the nosler 140 partition or the silvertip , 42.2 gr of varget or 2208 actually does produce a velocity of 2776 fps .
So, now the discussion comes full circle . the Hammers need only 1450 psi to get started into the bore , the partition needs 3636 psi , and the accubond needs almost 8000 psi and now for the same load of 42.2 , the hammer reaches 2739 fps, a partiton style makes 2679 fps and the accubond 2816 fps and slightly over pressure . .
Gordons reloading tool predicts the following ....
Now at 43 grains the hammer is at 2794, the partition is at 2727 and the accubond is at 2861 and now at very high pressure
Now at 43.5 rains the hammer is at 2827, the partition is at 2757
now at 44.0 grains the hammer is at 2861 , and on the edge of pressure , the partition is at 2787 is still safe, but at 44.6 it meets the pressure max point and Vel =2822
my chrono matches the Hammer loads reasonably closely . and usually does with other loads as well . But i can tell your experience is different from mine and i guess thats reloading for you. The thing to note here though , is that the Hammers are being treated quite differently in GRT than all others.
I cant confirm that the treatment in the tool is absolutely correct, but then i didn,t do the adjustments, an expert at GRT tools forum did. I can say though , and i think the pics of the cases show, no obvious evidence of high pressure, and for all the readers, do you own research and if you use the info i have collected and spoken of, you do so at your own risk .
cheers
les

I think i might look into a 7mm saum ..cause my problem is fallow at 600 mts and while the 140 absolute has about 1800fps out that far, energy is heading to below 1000 ft/lbs in a hurray . As for accuracy ? your experience is the same as mine . the most accurant round i ever fired
cheers
les

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LJPRMC

I think i might look into a 7mm saum ..cause my problem is fallow at 600 mts and while the 140 absolute has about 1800fps out that far, energy is heading to below 1000 ft/lbs in a hurray . As for accuracy ? your experience is the same as mine . the most accurant round i ever fired
cheers
les

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Greetings,
I bought a 7mm SAUM Sendero when they first came out around 2004. A very accurate cartridge. It seems to have found it's niche in F Open class shooting. The factory slowish twist and short mag do hamper it a bit but if you are building a rifle these are no problem. The low number of rounds fired in mine are rather embarrassing.
GPM.