284 win slow speeds

Hi team, I have read a few previous articles on this page about this topic but through I may as well get a few more ideas. I have recently had a remington 700 LA re-barreled and reamed into 284 win, along with an extended throat to fit bigger projectiles seated out. The barrel has been cut to 19 inches.

Anyway I had 3 powders on hand so I loaded up a 3 shots of each with 1 grain increments started at the lowest book recommendation to get a idea of the speeds each powder will give. The results are as follows:

H4350
50gr - 2554
51gr - 2609 - pressure signs
52gr - 2661 - high pressure signs

RL 23
53gr - 2583 - low pressure signs
54gr - 2619 - mid pressure signs
55gr - 2677 - high pressure signs

2213sc
55gr
56gr
57gr - 2607 - no pressure signs
58gr - 2544 - no pressure signs

I am using new norma brass, fed 210 match primers, norma bond-strike 165gr

The results seem slower than what is illustrated and what I have read from similar builds and online data. Does anyone have some ideas of where to go from here to get better speeds and lower pressures? I have done a bit of reading of similar issues where neck turning the brass has solved the issue but I suspect it is more of an issue with necked up 6.5-284 brass.

Brass neck dimension with seated bullet - 0.314
Brass neck dimension after firing - 0-317

Also to note on the fired brass the carbon/black that covers the neck after a firing does not come all the way down the neck as per photo. At this stage my thoughts are that above the neck shoulder junction on the brass the diameter is getting wider which is back up with a set of calipers although the measurements are not 100% accurate.

Any suggestions or ideas would be much appreciated. Cheers

Attachment 210345

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim356

Hi team, I have read a few previous articles on this page about this topic but through I may as well get a few more ideas. I have recently had a remington 700 LA re-barreled and reamed into 284 win, along with an extended throat to fit bigger projectiles seated out. The barrel has been cut to 19 inches.

Anyway I had 3 powders on hand so I loaded up a 3 shots of each with 1 grain increments started at the lowest book recommendation to get a idea of the speeds each powder will give. The results are as follows:

H4350
50gr - 2554
51gr - 2609 - pressure signs
52gr - 2661 - high pressure signs

RL 23
53gr - 2583 - low pressure signs
54gr - 2619 - mid pressure signs
55gr - 2677 - high pressure signs

2213sc
55gr
56gr
57gr - 2607 - no pressure signs
58gr - 2544 - no pressure signs

I am using new norma brass, fed 210 match primers, norma bond-strike 165gr

The results seem slower than what is illustrated and what I have read from similar builds and online data. Does anyone have some ideas of where to go from here to get better speeds and lower pressures? I have done a bit of reading of similar issues where neck turning the brass has solved the issue but I suspect it is more of an issue with necked up 6.5-284 brass.

Brass neck dimension with seated bullet - 0.314
Brass neck dimension after firing - 0-317

Also to note on the fired brass the carbon/black that covers the neck after a firing does not come all the way down the neck as per photo. At this stage my thoughts are that above the neck shoulder junction on the brass the diameter is getting wider which is back up with a set of calipers although the measurements are not 100% accurate.

Any suggestions or ideas would be much appreciated. Cheers

Attachment 210345

---

Your not to far off the pace there, probably about 80fps slower than what I was getting with the 162 eldm out of the same length barrel but with different powders. Your about bang on where others I've seen are with 2209

None of the powders you have used there will give you particularly good speeds in the shorter barrel (although I'm not familiar with rl 23)

Norma is a little softer than some other brands and I found it gave pressure signs a little earlier than the lapua 6.5/284 brass I had.

Win 760/h414 should net you another 50-75 ish fps bit temp sensitive though. Rl 16, 17 or superformance will get you another 75 - 100fps over where you are now.

As the above powders are shit to find at the moment If the 2209 load shoots at 2600 ish I'd just send that. It will kill shit sweet and you should get a few fps back as the barrel shoots in

find accurate load..put chronicgraph behind your target,empty magazine into it AND BE HAPPY FOREVER MORE....

RL17 or Superformance should get you 2800fps or a tad more with 160 or 162gn pills. I’m getting 2830 fps with 20in bbl

@Micky Duck It always amuses me a bit when there's a post about disappointing velocity along with " I've had the barrel cut down to xx" Doing this with a cartridge optimized for a 22 or longer barrel seems like cutting the nuts off your prize huntaway and expecting his bark to deepen.

Mine runs 2740 fps in a 22” barrel with a mild load of 2213sc, Lapua brass and 162 ELD-X.
Cutting the barrel to 19” will have limited the speeds you can get, cos physics, but the new barrel should speed up after a bit of use.
In the meantime, 2600 fps will kill just fine.
I ran mine at just over 2600 for a good while as I found an accuracy node there and just went with it.
Don’t chase internet boasting speeds, and just go hunting.

Those results look about right for the powders used. In my old 17” barrel with 162s I got 2600 with 2209 (H4350) at 53 - 53.5gr. I got roughly 100fps more with Rel17 (2700fps). I also experienced different pressure tolerances with different projectiles. For example the 162 X would hit pressure sooner then the 162 M did.

Others have had good success with H414 and Superformance too.

I just ran mine at 2600 with the 2209 and it was deadly.

Just a comment on Norma brass. When I went to 284 for F Class I was already aware of guys only getting 2-3 loads out of sized up Norma 6.5/284 brass at which point the primer pockets gave out. They were however using WARM loads. I went straight to sized up Lapua and had no issues with 180gr Hybrids at 2820. Obviously my apples were different to the OP's as my barrel was 32" but this posting is more around Norma brass.
I did get in some Norma 284 brass from the States which supposedly was stronger in the base. I never got to fire that brass though as I quit the 284.

Just out of interest what are the 7mm08 guys getting with 162-165 grain projectiles?

With 160's I was able to get 2750 using Reloder 16 from a 20" barrel. With ADI powder, a 165gr bullet, and a shorter barrel, I echo what everyone else is saying: those speeds sound about right.

It's a 7mm08 +P... It's not a 7mm Rem Mag... Don't expect magnum velocities. Especially not after docking it so short.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

@Micky Duck It always amuses me a bit when there's a post about disappointing velocity along with " I've had the barrel cut down to xx" Doing this with a cartridge optimized for a 22 or longer barrel seems like cutting the nuts off your prize huntaway and expecting his bark to deepen.

---

About sums it up for me, I can get better speeds out of a 50 year old 7x57.

Cheers everyone for the replies, seems like I'm not far off the mark with where it is now so I will just stick with it and find a nice accurate load to run through this gun.

Are you running a muzzle break or a suppressor with it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zimmer

Just out of interest what are the 7mm08 guys getting with 162-165 grain projectiles?

---

Been flip-flopping about a 284win win build but my 20" 7mm08 tikka does 2630fps with 162gr ELD-M without leaning on it too hard. Doesn't seem like much gain for the hassle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunty1

Been flip-flopping about a 284win win build but my 20" 7mm08 tikka does 2630fps with 162gr ELD-M without leaning on it too hard. Doesn't seem like much gain for the hassle.

---

Stick with the 7mm08 unless you really want to go shorter. That's damn good speeds. The 284 will just let you keep those speeds at around 16 inches barrel length.

@Jim356

.317 neck on the reamer i see, was that the gunworks reamer?

You say a loaded round measues .314 neck dia, what is the dia if you move the calipers down closer to the neck shoulder junction? 284 is pretty fussy on neck clearance, and while it appears you have 3 thou total neck clearance, thats the bare minimum i reckon, and im picking down towards the shoulder you may not have that much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunty1

Been flip-flopping about a 284win win build but my 20" 7mm08 tikka does 2630fps with 162gr ELD-M without leaning on it too hard. Doesn't seem like much gain for the hassle.

---

An extra 200fps is definitely worth it, just got to use the right powders. If you only want to shoot to 500 yards then I agree the 708 with short bbl will do the job nicely

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No.3

Are you running a muzzle break or a suppressor with it?

---

I am running a suppressor on it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GWH

@Jim356

.317 neck on the reamer i see, was that the gunworks reamer?

You say a loaded round measues .314 neck dia, what is the dia if you move the calipers down closer to the neck shoulder junction? 284 is pretty fussy on neck clearance, and while it appears you have 3 thou total neck clearance, thats the bare minimum i reckon, and im picking down towards the shoulder you may not have that much.

---

Yes gunworks did the reaming. From what I can tell when measuring the brass it does seem to be just a fraction wider at the very base of the neck. What did you find to be the ideal neck clearance with your 284 @GWH?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

@Micky Duck It always amuses me a bit when there's a post about disappointing velocity along with " I've had the barrel cut down to xx" Doing this with a cartridge optimized for a 22 or longer barrel seems like cutting the nuts off your prize huntaway and expecting his bark to deepen.

---

post of the month.....

There is 154ssts and 150eldx @ gunworks. I ran the ssts and got 2750 easily with 2209 and a 19" 284. Those bondstrikes are a bit harder so need a bit of speed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim356

Yes gunworks did the reaming. From what I can tell when measuring the brass it does seem to be just a fraction wider at the very base of the neck. What did you find to be the ideal neck clearance with your 284 @GWH?

---

In the early days of 284 popularity in F Class the Yanks said the 284 likes "good" clearance. I could never work out how a cartridge could have the intelligence to know it needed good clearance. Obviously with good clearance there is some safety but you are also working your brass a lot more.

In all likelihood with springback your throat is probably .315. Did you get a copy of the reamer drawing? I always request that of the Smith. That gives me information for neck turning etc.

If you are using bushing dies the neck at the neck shoulder junction will always be larger due to bushing dies generally not sizing that far down plus the chamfer present on the bush.

I run mine at 2640, was just a load I threw together and it grouped well so used it and haven't bothered doing any further development. Shot a big stag at just over 500, that's the longest shot on game with it, decent nber in the 400 range and most others I the 2-300 with a few up close and personal. All with 162gr, never had to worry about over expansion up close and does well to the 500 mark which is my self imposed limit on game.

My first lot of up sized brass gave me pressure issues and I then found I had an internal donut, a relief cut with neck turner at the neck/shoulder junction prevented that happening in New lot of brass and removed the pressure issue. If you are using sized up brass and getting slightly thicker measurements at the junction it might be worth having a feel inside for donuts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stagstalker

Those results look about right for the powders used. In my old 17” barrel with 162s I got 2600 with 2209 (H4350) at 53 - 53.5gr. I got roughly 100fps more with Rel17 (2700fps). I also experienced different pressure tolerances with different projectiles. For example the 162 X would hit pressure sooner then the 162 M did.

Others have had good success with H414 and Superformance too.
I just ran mine at 2600 with the 2209 and it was deadly.

---

Good advice.
ELD-X jackets are harder than the ELD-M, so are harder to engage with the lands, which can push pressure up a bit. Best to load a grain or two lower than normal with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim356

Yes gunworks did the reaming. From what I can tell when measuring the brass it does seem to be just a fraction wider at the very base of the neck. What did you find to be the ideal neck clearance with your 284 @GWH?

---

That Gunworks reamer, if the same one, does have a .317 dia on the neck, it also has different lead angles than normal i believe, I remember Robbie telling me about it at the time.

I found that 3 thou total wasnt enough. I also found the neck to be wider at the bottom of the neck, by the shoulder junction, a neck turn to increase clearance, and make sure that it cuts down into the shoulder a little prevented donuts at the neck/shoulder junction and stopped me seeing pressure signs at lower powder changes than expected.

I think im at 5-6 thou clearance, and it was much happier.

I might give neck turing a shot at some point to see in the near future to see if I get any performance increases. Thanks for the information GWH

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunty1

Been flip-flopping about a 284win win build but my 20" 7mm08 tikka does 2630fps with 162gr ELD-M without leaning on it too hard. Doesn't seem like much gain for the hassle.

---

Why I rebarreled my 18inch 284.
Just couldn't justify the extra powder for a few extra fps.
When my 18inch 7mm08 was good enough to harvest deer at 500meters with the 162gr Amax.
So while the 7mm08 is now a 25 inch 7mmcreed the 284 is a 18inch 7mm creed and is currently throwing the 130gr speer @2750 during fireforming and break in