30-06, Hdy FL Size die button shaving brass

I'm loading 30-06 for the first time. Starline brass, 4 unfired, rest once fired. All annealed and decapped. Set out to FL size.

Using earlier Hdy 2 die set, prob more than 30 yrs old, seem to be in excellent nick. Noticed the internal neck sizing button was graunching some on the pull thru as ram lowered on upstroke. Cases are lubed with brush inside neck and Lee Resizing Lubricant, as I've done for years now. After the first few I noticed brass shavings around the press close to the ram. Mmm...next case graunched quite badly, pulled die apart, lo there's brass shavings sitting on top of the button - see photo. Back edge of button is sharpish, has a slight chamfer, looks factory. Nothing looks like Bubba has played. But then I'm more familiar with Lee dies which have a slow taper at back of button, no edge as such.

I'm thinking a little polish with Flitz paste. Or maybe just abandon the button altogether as some advocate.

Wanting to shoot it tomorrow :(

Thoughts.

And while I'm at it, I have AR2206H, AR2208 and AR2209 on hand. Also RL19. 150gn Hdy Interlocks. Load choices?

Attachment 268806

Stick it in cordless drill and lightly sand back the edges...as long as you don't make fattest bit skinnier it will still size the same but will be MUCH smoother to use.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Stick it in cordless drill and lightly sand back the edges...as long as you don't make fattest bit skinnier it will still size the same but will be MUCH smoother to use.

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Yeah easy as Micky, no rocket science there eh? What I'd really like to know is how unusual this is, and why this would even happen? I load a bunch of diff cals. Have Hdy, Lee, Lyman and Redding die..from old like Lyman Rifleman from prob70-80 yrs ago, and brand new. Never seen nor heard of this happening.

I resized some without the button, downside is the neck won't accept a 30 cal pilot for length trimming.

I'm using AR2208 for 30.06. But AR2209 is considered the better option, esp for heavier bullets.

Indeed no rocket science...I too found Lee dies much smoother than the Hornady ones until they got light sanding.

I used a super fine diamond file to dress the chamfered edge minutely as it turned in the drill and then polished it with Flitz paste. Two runs at it cured the problem. Still seems bizarre to me that it should happen but there ya go.

Yes, the ubiquitous 2208 would seem the go for the 150s. AR2206H being like gold right now. Then I remembered I had a tin of old Nobel Rifle No 0. And load data for it. So just loaded a handful at 55gn which is well under max and promises mid 2700s for velocity. Which would do me nicely if it groups worth noticing. Find out tomorrow.

Nothing wrong with nobels.
Data I have says 60gr max for 2995fps


Yes, for 150gr 2208 would be better option.

Good luck.

Two things.

With the rod with the "problem" neck expander secured into the die body in it's usual position, flip the die around until you are looking up into the die internals. Is the rod centred nicely in the die cavity ? It's not unusual at all, especially with Hornady dies, for the rod to be off-centre. Cure this by loosening the lock nut, turning the rod either up or down slightly until it's nicely centred, then reset with the lock nut. This might prevent or reduce brass scraping.

If that doesn't help you could swap the standad neck expander for an "elliptical" neck expander which Hornady sells as an after market part. Personally I use these in all my Hornady dies as they pass through the neck much more smoothly. I believe this smoother passage also helps keep cartridge run-out in check but sgain, ensure the rod is nicely centred in the die cavity.

https://www.deltamike.co.nz/product/...expander-ball/

Is it a common practice to FLS without the expander fitted?

Pro's & con's??

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

Two things.

With the rod with the "problem" neck expander secured into the die body in it's usual position, flip the die around until you are looking up into the die internals. Is the rod centred nicely in the die cavity ? It's not unusual at all, especially with Hornady dies, for the rod to be off-centre. Cure this by loosening the lock nut, turning the rod either up or down slightly until it's nicely centred, then reset with the lock nut. This might prevent or reduce brass scraping.
https://www.deltamike.co.nz/product/...expander-ball/

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Some brands of dies (mmm Hornady?) are attrocious for off centre expander balls/decapping pins.
When I used to use those type of dies I used an old Nick Harvey trick, an O ring under the lock nut. Lock nut just snugged. There is enough slop in the thread for them to then self centre. But first I would rotate as described above to get the best centering.

Do you have a Lyman M die in .30 cal it is the only way I expand any case all my FL dies have next calibre down buttons
the newer Hornady dies have better buttons

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

Two things.

With the rod with the "problem" neck expander secured into the die body in it's usual position, flip the die around until you are looking up into the die internals. Is the rod centred nicely in the die cavity ? It's not unusual at all, especially with Hornady dies, for the rod to be off-centre. Cure this by loosening the lock nut, turning the rod either up or down slightly until it's nicely centred, then reset with the lock nut. This might prevent or reduce brass scraping.

If that doesn't help you could swap the standad neck expander for an "elliptical" neck expander which Hornady sells as an after market part. Personally I use these in all my Hornady dies as they pass through the neck much more smoothly. I believe this smoother passage also helps keep cartridge run-out in check but sgain, ensure the rod is nicely centred in the die cavity.

https://www.deltamike.co.nz/product/...expander-ball/

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Didn't know about the elliptical button thks. Yes I always center the decapping pin and button, lots of random off-centredness in any brand I've found if you don't.

Glad to find there's a "King" of 30-06 out there lol. On ya!

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

Is it a common practice to FLS without the expander fitted?

Pro's & con's??

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Suggest you Google it. Was a guy on YouTube trying to persuade the world of the practice. IIRC there have been proponents on this forum. Basically the die compresses the neck in too far so that the button then brings it back out to correct SAMMI internal dia. Works the brass a lot. But not using button gives stronger neck tension. Prob best for boat tail bullets. Fb would prob need flaring of the neck like cast does. Lyman M Die does this at the premium end.

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Originally Posted by Tokoroa Cast Projectiles

Do you have a Lyman M die in .30 cal it is the only way I expand any case all my FL dies have next calibre down buttons
the newer Hornady dies have better buttons

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No mate I don't. Never could justify the price, per cal, tight basted that I am..and too many cals to buy them for.

Anyway, I went to the range today with lucky 13 made up. 3 factory down range to warm up, crap group, then my roll yer owns. Happybwith result. See new thread.

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Suggest you Google it. Was a guy on YouTube trying to persuade the world of the practice. IIRC there have been proponents on this forum. Basically the die compresses the neck in too far so that the button then brings it back out to correct SAMMI internal dia. Works the brass a lot. But not using button gives stronger neck tension. Prob best for boat tail bullets. Fb would prob need flaring of the neck like cast does. Lyman M Die does this at the premium end.

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Thx John you just confirmed my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Didn't know about the elliptical button thks. Yes I always center the decapping pin and button, lots of random off-centredness in any brand I've found if you don't.

Glad to find there's a "King" of 30-06 out there lol. On ya!

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@Jhon
Haha, no I'm not the "king" of 30.06 , except in my own imaginings but rather my handle is a tribute to the 30.06 cartridge being "king". It's popularity is fading a little against newer and supposedly more efficient cartridges but we could almost say it's a forever cartridge. I really appreciate it and hope it stays around. It has certainly spawned many new and interesting cartridges in its wake.

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

@Jhon
Haha, no I'm not the "king" of 30.06 , except in my own imaginings but rather my handle is a tribute to the 30.06 cartridge being "king". It's popularity is fading a little against newer and supposedly more efficient cartridges but we could almost say it's a forever cartridge. I really appreciate it and hope it stays around. It has certainly spawned many new and interesting cartridges in its wake.

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I have to say, I'm guilty of succumbing to the "oh my God, but the recoil" fraternity. I avoided 308 a long time..considered 303B to be on the cusp, and 270Win definitely out of bounds. Got a 308 or two and yes, there's a kick, but with a suppressor and factory barrel nothing of any real concern except after, in the good ole days, doing extensive load dev with an incremental load ladder. Stiffish shoulder the next morning. Along came a suppressed 270 with a gunworks can on a 24in barrel and scoped. Really nice to shoot. Authority but no pain. The 30-06 with bare barrel certainly let's you know you pulled the trigger. With the extended DPT with the muzzle brake it is entirely tamed. Hard to differentiate between suppressed 308, 7x57mm, 7mm08 and 270Win on the range all firing 139 to 150gn loads. And nothing like the beating from a full house 12g.

I guess the downside for those pulling the trigger a lot is feeding it. Same for the 270Win. A small price to pay for capability if you have a rifle you love to shoot, and can get the powder.

What is really spoiling me tho is the Timney trigger that came with it. Have to say I have nothing to beat it. Well, maybe the set trigger on a CZ 527 is up there, neck 'n neck. Boy do I have rifles that would benefit from a Timney, sigh.

Thanks for the beer Mate

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Originally Posted by Jhon

I have to say, I'm guilty of succumbing to the "oh my God, but the recoil" fraternity. I avoided 308 a long time..considered 303B to be on the cusp, and 270Win definitely out of bounds. Got a 308 or two and yes, there's a kick, but with a suppressor and factory barrel nothing of any real concern except after, in the good ole days, doing extensive load dev with an incremental load ladder. Stiffish shoulder the next morning. Along came a suppressed 270 with a gunworks can on a 24in barrel and scoped. Really nice to shoot. Authority but no pain. The 30-06 with bare barrel certainly let's you know you pulled the trigger. With the extended DPT with the muzzle brake it is entirely tamed. Hard to differentiate between suppressed 308, 7x57mm, 7mm08 and 270Win on the range all firing 139 to 150gn loads. And nothing like the beating from a full house 12g.

I guess the downside for those pulling the trigger a lot is feeding it. Same for the 270Win. A small price to pay for capability if you have a rifle you love to shoot, and can get the powder.

What is really spoiling me tho is the Timney trigger that came with it. Have to say I have nothing to beat it. Well, maybe the set trigger on a CZ 527 is up there, neck 'n neck. Boy do I have rifles that would benefit from a Timney, sigh.

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I'm fortunate, recoil doesn't trouble me, up to a point. 30.06 , 300 Win Mag, 375 H&H I enjoy shooting, even with attendant recoil. Circumstances determine the degree to which recoil is evident. At the range it's part of every shot of the multiple. When shooting game recoil never registers but, of course, much fewer shots comparatively.
But I know my recoil limits. I have had a few shots with a double rifle in 470NE and nope, don't want a rifle in that cal. Interestingly a bolt rifle, Rigby IIRC, in 416 Rigby was a pussycat to shoot.
Good point you make about quality triggers. Gotta have them to attain the higher leves of competent shooting, especially at the longer ranges.
I shoud say too, none of my rifles have brakes or suppressors. No attempt to be macho I merely like keping things as simple as possible. The fewer things to think about the better, to me.