30-40 Krag load conundrums

I have nearly finished a new build 30-40 Krag on an original Winchester 1885 single shot high wall action.
It is going to be set up as an Every Day Carry vintage rifle and will basically be a practical 300m stalking rifle.
Nearly all the gunsmithing has been done. I just need to fit the extractor, make and fit a barrel band, draw file all the octagonal flats, cut and crown the muzzle, get the caliber engraving done and then slow rust blue it all.

There is a bit of time involved in those few things.
So now I turn myself to some loads for this working rifle.
Previously I have only shot cast lead, powder coated gas checked bullets in my SMLE 30-40 Krag.
This rifle will be primarily a jacketed bullet rifle
The options are going to be spitzer soft point type in keeping with it's 300m use and speeds etc

Bullet weights 150, 165 or 180 grains
Think of it as a sedate 308 Winchester running lower 40k psi chamber pressures.

Available powders and reliable data ?
I know a few guys on here have some experience with the Krag and ADI powders
There is plenty of Hogdon data on line, but not whats available in NZ currently.
I don't have much ADI on hand but do have a little 2213SC

Just looking for some ideas from guys running one of these before I look across at the 303 data for some inspiration

Attachment 223398

It weighs 8 pounds even
Wears an old beat up looking Leupold M8 3x which has nice clear glass
Small mounting rail is set up for perfect eye relief for this scope
Rings are a POS and only being used to get it going and get the right clearance for the hammer and thumb fit

Sounds like a job for GRT. Do you have an accurate case capacity in grains of H2O? Barrel length - breech face to muzzle?

165's with 39 grains of AR2219 (if you can find any) for 2400 fps. Bench Mark 2 is very similar in burning rate. 2213SC is safe to use up to 48 grains but will be about 250 fps slower.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

165's with 39 grains of AR2219 (if you can find any) for 2400 fps. Bench Mark 2 is very similar in burning rate. 2213SC is safe to use up to 48 grains but will be about 250 fps slower.

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Gunworks seem to have 2219 in stock and I do have BM2 on hand

My quick google search earlier this morning had identified that 2219 was the sweet spot for the 165 grainers

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Originally Posted by Steelisreal

Sounds like a job for GRT. Do you have an accurate case capacity in grains of H2O? Barrel length - breech face to muzzle?

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@Steelisreal H2o case capacity is 59 grains to the mouth

Barrel is exactly 26"

At this stage I will run with 165s because there are a range of suitable ones available locally

And 2219 is looking good at this stage for a powder with specific data from manufacturer ( despite having a heap of other powders that might be perfect but lack creditable data )

cheers

An old book tells me imr 4064 (ar2208) will do it all from 110 to 220 grains and the oldest adi book reckons 2206h. For 165s 37-42 gr 2208, 33-38 2206h is what I can find

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

@Steelisreal H2o case capacity is 59 grains to the mouth

Barrel is exactly 26"

At this stage I will run with 165s because there are a range of suitable ones available locally

And 2219 is looking good at this stage for a powder with specific data from manufacturer ( despite having a heap of other powders that might be perfect but lack creditable data )

cheers

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And you need to remember 30-40 Krag aka 30 US is considered to be a 40k psi max cartridge due to the original Krag service rifle
The 1885 will happily take a bit more than that and this one does now have a bushed small diameter high pressure firing pin.
But I still intend sticking to the 40k psi max as a 165 @ 2400 will be perfect

I bet a 180gr round nose at 2400 would be perfecter

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

I bet a 180gr round nose at 2400 would be perfecter

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Yes if some 180 round nose were available they would look the part and do the job
But 2400 might be optimistic in a Krag
2300 from the 26" barrel maybe
And it's 1:10" twist for the big bombs

I do have 100x 220 grain Woodliegh's but they are maybe way to tough for my pedestrian speeds

Greetings @akaroa1,
A month or so back I suggested, half jokingly, that I may use my 30-40 Martini in a 300 yard F class shoot. A little later I dug the hole deeper so am now committed. A little while ago I measured the throat on my rifle and found that the 165 grain Hornady Interlock could be seated 1mm from the lands and still have around 7mm of projectile seated in the case. This was as far as I had got when I spotted your OP to this thread. I gave myself a mental clip around the ears and reminded myself that, fortunately for us handloading junkies ammo does not load itself.
A document search of data revealed little I would trust but I knew that the net case capacity of the .30-40 Krag and the .308 Win were close to the same so the velocities and pressure should be similar and the start loads for the .308 would be close to Max in the .30-40. Hodgdon listed a start load of 41 grains of H4895 (AR2206H) for 2,525 fps and 38,600 CUP. This is in a 24 inch barrel, same as my Martini.
I would still like to see some comparable data for the Krag that backed up my assumptions so I was rummaging around in the Load Data dot com website that I subscribe to and found loads by Brian Pearce developed for the .30-40 in a Browning 1895 rifle with a 24 inch barrel. He listed a start load of 33.5 grains of H4895 for 2142 fps and a max of 36.9 grains for 2,326 fps. This is close to what you would expect based on the .308 start load data.
AR2206H was selected as I have plenty of it and it tolerates lighter loads although it does shoot a bit dirty. It has also been used in my .308 rifles for soft target loads, 40 grains and later 38 grains with 150 grain projectiles. Both showed signs of low pressure and could be handloaded endlessly with just neck sizing. There are a few 165 grain projectiles in the shed so I had better get cracking.
Regards Grandpamac.

All loads were for 165 grain projectiles.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @akaroa1,
A month or so back I suggested, half jokingly, that I may use my 30-40 Martini in a 300 yard F class shoot. A little later I dug the hole deeper so am now committed. A little while ago I measured the throat on my rifle and found that the 165 grain Hornady Interlock could be seated 1mm from the lands and still have around 7mm of projectile seated in the case. This was as far as I had got when I spotted your OP to this thread. I gave myself a mental clip around the ears and reminded myself that, fortunately for us handloading junkies ammo does not load itself.
A document search of data revealed little I would trust but I knew that the net case capacity of the .30-40 Krag and the .308 Win were close to the same so the velocities and pressure should be similar and the start loads for the .308 would be close to Max in the .30-40. Hodgdon listed a start load of 41 grains of H4895 (AR2206H) for 2,525 fps and 38,600 CUP. This is in a 24 inch barrel, same as my Martini.
I would still like to see some comparable data for the Krag that backed up my assumptions so I was rummaging around in the Load Data dot com website that I subscribe to and found loads by Brian Pearce developed for the .30-40 in a Browning 1895 rifle with a 24 inch barrel. He listed a start load of 33.5 grains of H4895 for 2142 fps and a max of 36.9 grains for 2,326 fps. This is close to what you would expect based on the .308 start load data.
AR2206H was selected as I have plenty of it and it tolerates lighter loads although it does shoot a bit dirty. It has also been used in my .308 rifles for soft target loads, 40 grains and later 38 grains with 150 grain projectiles. Both showed signs of low pressure and could be handloaded endlessly with just neck sizing. There are a few 165 grain projectiles in the shed so I had better get cracking.
Regards Grandpamac.

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@grandpamac I was hoping you would come on board with some authoritative real world data on.
Even better if it is with the 165s and ADI powder.
Another bonus you are striving for 300 yard F Class world domination. So you are likely to hand it to me on a winners platter.

I merely want to shoot red deer at 300m so my task should be easier than yours
There isn't much I can do now on the rifle until the barrel is engraved for caliber and twist.
Then I can put in a final burst and get it all put back together and do some load work / hunting with GPMs guaranteed to work load date

cheers

@grandpamac Your idea on 308 starting loads being around max for 30-40 holds some merit

Using Nick Harvey's 9th Edition
I have compared 308 starting loads with 303 max loads and for most of the powders they are the same or very near the same.
The reason to compare with the 303 data is that I consider the 303 and 30-40 to be one and the same in the action I am using.

This useful option to compare starting and max loads will be useful in getting some useful options for powders like W748 and W760 which I have a reasonable amount of, but hadn't found any useful 30-40 specific data on