303 174gr with 2206H

Im loading up some 303 to replicate MkVII ammo using 174gr FMJs. I have 2206H and 2209 on hand and decided that 2206H is going to be the better bet, im aware 2208 is a better choice, but I have none and can get none.

From my messing around on GRT and Quickload and various posts scattered around, somewhere around 37-38gr should be 2440fps. Does anyone have real world data on this combination from a No4? Does my guess sound about right?

Im using cleaned up HXP cases and projectiles, they both come up good with a good SS pin tumble with citric acid.

Thanks.

Without going to my shed to check, your load seems about right. From memory I used 37.5 gr of 2206H behind 174 fmj’s. Pretty sure 2206H is very popular in Au.

No 2208 to be had ! What is the world coming to... :wtfsmilie:

I have some HXP cases for you :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

Im loading up some 303 to replicate MkVII ammo using 174gr FMJs. I have 2206H and 2209 on hand and decided that 2206H is going to be the better bet, im aware 2208 is a better choice, but I have none and can get none.

From my messing around on GRT and Quickload and various posts scattered around, somewhere around 37-38gr should be 2440fps. Does anyone have real world data on this combination from a No4? Does my guess sound about right?

Im using cleaned up HXP cases and projectiles, they both come up good with a good SS pin tumble with citric acid.

Thanks.

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Hodgdons list 38 grains of AR2206H (H4895) as max with the 174 grain giving 2,440 velocity oy standard military velocity. This is in a pressure barrel. Velocity in actual rifles can be a great deal less possibly due to throat erosion from the hot Cordite. I have been using a light load of 32 grains of AR2206H with the 174 grain round nose which gives around 2,050 fps in my near new barrel in a no4 which is broadly in line with the Hodgdon data.
GPM.

My real world data (P14) is...

AR2206H 39.7 gns
Sierra 174 BT
2525 fps verified
78.11mm oal
HX cases

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Originally Posted by johnd

My real world data (P14) is...

AR2206H 39.7 gns
Sierra 174 BT
2525 fps verified
78.11mm oal
HX cases

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In case you didn’t realise sixty 10 is using a no4 not a strong p14
I have alway loaded 2 grains less for 2206 vs 2208 loads.
38gns is listed as maximum in the ADI manual.

Just wanting to ensure that sixty 10 realises your load exceeds the safe maximum.

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Originally Posted by omark

In case you didn’t realise sixty 10 is using a no4 not a strong p14
I have alway loaded 2 grains less for 2206 vs 2208 loads.
38gns is listed as maximum in the ADI manual.

Just wanting to ensure that sixty 10 realises your load exceeds the safe maximum.

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Yep that's what the brackets were for around the P14 bit:thumbsup:, my intention was to answer the quest for real world loads. Obviously with the data set shown its not a Mk 7 load (higher Velocity) either. But the information should still hold some relevance for the OP.:o

From memory I'm around 37.8 with 2206H, Greek Brass, 174fmj. Shot rubbish loaded to canellure. Made a bit longer and went good, No4mk2. These are around the 2440 fps.

Thanks Gents, that's exactly the info I needed and I have enough to go on now. I have loaded up 50 rounds in the range of 37-38gr and we will see how they come out, I'm off to test on Friday.

Attachment 213629

I will be putting them through this

Attachment 213630

A 1943 Maltby No4mk1 that was FTR'd at some point and updated to MK2, interestingly there are no FTR marks and they simply stamped another "I" behind the Mk I already there. Its also been "Regulated by Fulton" at some point.

It's in great condition, except for the barrel which looks like a sewer pipe. It has bad pitting all the way from throat to muzzle. There is well defined rifling the whole way and I have lapped the barrel to take most of the roughness out. Hopefully the pits just fill up with copper and it shoots ok. It came with a PH5C Rear Sight, which I have swapped out for the original mk1 sight, I also gave the wood work a tidy up, checked all the bedding etc and gave everything a good scrub.

I'm planning to shoot this at the TLRS Surplus Steel match at the end of the month if it behaves itself.

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

Thanks Gents, that's exactly the info I needed and I have enough to go on now. I have loaded up 50 rounds in the range of 37-38gr and we will see how they come out, I'm off to test on Friday.

Attachment 213629

I will be putting them through this

Attachment 213630

A 1943 Maltby No4mk1 that was FTR'd at some point and updated to MK2, interestingly there are no FTR marks and they simply stamped another "I" behind the Mk I already there. Its also been "Regulated by Fulton" at some point.

It's in great condition, except for the barrel which looks like a sewer pipe. It has bad pitting all the way from throat to muzzle. There is well defined rifling the whole way and I have lapped the barrel to take most of the roughness out. Hopefully the pits just fill up with copper and it shoots ok. It came with a PH5C Rear Sight, which I have swapped out for the original mk1 sight, I also gave the wood work a tidy up, checked all the bedding etc and gave everything a good scrub.

I'm planning to shoot this at the TLRS Surplus Steel match at the end of the month if it behaves itself.

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Your rifle is a target rifle which has been “regulated” by Fultons of Bisley. Someone has attempted to convert it to a military rifle by installing no4 sights and has removed the king screw, etc.

Notwithstanding, it should shoot very well and is a very nice example.

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Originally Posted by omark

Your rifle is a target rifle which has been “regulated” by Fultons of Bisley. Someone has attempted to convert it to a military rifle by installing no4 sights and has removed the king screw, etc.

Notwithstanding, it should shoot very well and is a very nice example.

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The way I see it, it's a military rifle that someone tried to convert to a target rifle, I'm just moving it back a bit towards it's original form.

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

The way I see it, it's a military rifle that someone tried to convert to a target rifle, I'm just moving it back a bit towards it's original form.

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Fultons generally assembled them from hand selected actions. You will see that the bedding system used is completely different from milspec. Their stocks were also new items as were the barrels. In their day they were 5 times the price of an army surp no4 and were used by many well to do fullbore shooters in NZ. You won’t be able to use it in any service rifle competitions but a lovely rifle…

Chronied some Greek last month, that stuff was honking in 2480-2500 fps range. Put about 50 odd of mixed 303 with some reloads downrange on a hot day in a tee-shirt. Was fun until towards the end.....was a bit tenderised in shoulder for next week!

I managed to get some 2208 recently and did some testing last night.
My results were as follows
Factory Greek - 2490fps
38gr 2206H - 2290fps
40gr 2208 - 2340fps

My reloads are significantly slower than I expected.
I'm using cleaned up HXP brass (annealed and full length sized) Greek 174gr FMJ and Murom primers.

Interestingly the slower loads shot around 3" high at 100yds. Greek surplus ammo is perfect for elevation and seems to be more accurate.

First post on here. I'd be keen to know what the Greek ammo shoots like out of the box (or Gun City zippy bag) as far as consistency is concerned. From the above figures is sounds fairly hot for .303 Brit, but if its consistent, I'd be tempted to pull the Military project & pop some 174 gr Hornadys in & take the old girl for a walk when it gets a bit cooler.

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Originally Posted by shananah

First post on here. I'd be keen to know what the Greek ammo shoots like out of the box (or Gun City zippy bag) as far as consistency is concerned. From the above figures is sounds fairly hot for .303 Brit, but if its consistent, I'd be tempted to pull the Military project & pop some 174 gr Hornadys in & take the old girl for a walk when it gets a bit cooler.

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I am getting around 4 MOA at 100yds with greek ammo. I have found that a simple shake test seems to cull all the corroded / hang fire / dud primer rounds. I shake the cartridge beside my ear, and if I can hear and feel the powder moving inside, its good to shoot. I found around 30 duds in 300 rds that I sorted though the other day.

The Greek 174 grain FMJ military bullets shoot excellent out of my SMLE -

With max load of 42 grains of 2208 I get 2525 fps and two inch groups with the open sights.

My bore is excellent and older rifles may not do as well.

I ended up with 41.5gr of 2208 to get 2435FPS average. Best groups I could get were around 3.5 - 4 MOA. Im not entirely sure whether this is the shooter, the rifle, or the ammo as I have spent very little time using iron sights, and my eyes are not the best.
I have tried no other projectiles than Greek 174gr FMJs.

Greetings @SixtyTen,
Depending on what you are using the rifle for you may want to try the Hornady 174 grain round nose. These shot well for me in a No4 like yours with a PH sight. I was using much lighter loads of 32 grains of AR2206H in a scoped rifle and 40 grains of AR2209 in the iron sight rifle. This last is well below start loads so caution is needed. 32 grains of AR2206H gave around 2,100 fps in my near new barrel in my scoped rifle using current production 174 grain RN.
Slower loads shooting high is common in some .303 rifles.
Regards Grandpamac.

Another thought. For iron sights like you are using the aiming point on the target is critical. I found the best was a black semicircle with the flat side at the bottom. Look through the aperture and concentrate on the front sight which should be a flat topped blade. Centre the blade with a white line showing between the top of the blade and the bottom of the black semicircle. It gets easier with practice.
GPM.

@grandpamac "Depending on what you are using the rifle for you may want to try the Hornady 174 grain round nose." It's a great projectile. The problem is finding stock! :)

And it might be a while before that improves @bumblefoot. Any heavy round nose .303 projectile should work and the surplus Greek projectiles should also work provided the throat is not too worn. Boat tails should probably be avoided.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by shananah

First post on here. I'd be keen to know what the Greek ammo shoots like out of the box (or Gun City zippy bag) as far as consistency is concerned. From the above figures is sounds fairly hot for .303 Brit, but if its consistent, I'd be tempted to pull the Military project & pop some 174 gr Hornadys in & take the old girl for a walk when it gets a bit cooler.

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I wouldn’t say it’s hot. You must shake test each round as the poor storage means that about 1-10% are duds having got wet.
I have also seen a squib load so be careful
Gun city must be at the bottom of the barrel as most of the stuff I’m now seeing on ranges is d grade in quality with brass badly corroded etc. however I’ve seen some good shooting with the earlier batches

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I ended up with 41.5gr of 2208 to get 2435FPS average. Best groups I could get were around 3.5 - 4 MOA. Im not entirely sure whether this is the shooter, the rifle, or the ammo as I have spent very little time using iron sights, and my eyes are not the best.
I have tried no other projectiles than Greek 174gr FMJs.

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Are you sure. I use 39 of 2208 with smks, hornady and s&b pills which is the go to load around here in terms of accuracy
41.5 is pushing it pretty hard

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Originally Posted by omark

Are you sure. I use 39 of 2208 with smks, hornady and s&b pills which is the go to load around here in terms of accuracy
41.5 is pushing it pretty hard

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I load 40-40.2gr of 2208 with 174's, I'm nearly through my 4kg tub of 2206H so will go back to 2208 now. Think it's slightly better but also hard to say as was mainly using the 2208 with smks which I don't think can get a 174 fmj in same league no matter what you do?

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Originally Posted by jackson21

I load 40-40.2gr of 2208 with 174's, I'm nearly through my 4kg tub of 2206H so will go back to 2208 now. Think it's slightly better but also hard to say as was mainly using the 2208 with smks which I don't think can get a 174 fmj in same league no matter what you do?

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I’ve had pretty good results out to 300 with the hornady and s&b but only out of good bores. Boat tails and worn throats wont give good results. Mind you I’m only shooting out to 300