.303 loads

I am back messing with my .303 again. I chronographed some factory loads one time, and PPU / Highland 180 grain bullets were getting between 2100 and 2200 fps. The Winchester Powerpoints 180 grain were going 2100 fps. This is on a par with my .32 Special carbine, and not much better than a .30-30.

I have reloaded the .303 (with Varget) quite a bit in the past, but never actually chronographed my handloads in a SMLE that I can remember. (Or wrote down)

I am looking for a 180 grain load that will clock an honest 2300-2400fps from a SMLE. Has anyone chrono'd 41 grains of 2208 and a 180 grain bullet, or has something with either 2208 or 2209 that is in the ball park?

Cant help with your 180 grain bullet but 45ish years ago I used to load 174 grain rn Hornady to 2250/2300 fps with 36grains of 3031. The chrono I built at the time was an oscillator and had to shoot through 2 wires(1 to start and 1 to stop the oscillator)and was fairly accurate. Primers showed highish pressure and case life was about 3 loadings. Neck sized only with CAC brass. These days I only shoot 220 grain cast and that's at the range.

You want Stephen Redgwell's book 'shooting the 303 British' He lists some loads for the sierra 180, Varget (2208) min 36.5grns @ 2074fps, max 40.5grns 2288fps, H4350(2209) min 42grns @2101fps, max 46grns @ 2283, Alliant R15 min 39.5@2255, max 43.5@2435fps. So there you go look at powders around the reloader 15. Just checked ADI and they list 2209 at 48grns @ 2500fps

Yeah I know of his stuff, but his stuff seems a bit weak, I think he shoots cast bullets a lot or something. I was hoping someone had chronographed some the book 180 grain loads

geez-the Winchester powerpoints and ppu only getting just 2100fps?
I've yet to get some 303 ammo for my project-no rush-but that's a bit naff really.

As the 303 is now 120years old, I suspect factory loads have gotten weaker. I've pulled s&b 174's and stuck 180grn sierra's in, shot real well and accurate.

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Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

I am back messing with my .303 again. I chronographed some factory loads one time, and PPU / Highland 180 grain bullets were getting between 2100 and 2200 fps. The Winchester Powerpoints 180 grain were going 2100 fps. This is on a par with my .32 Special carbine, and not much better than a .30-30.

I have reloaded the .303 (with Varget) quite a bit in the past, but never actually chronographed my handloads in a SMLE that I can remember. (Or wrote down)

I am looking for a 180 grain load that will clock an honest 2300-2400fps from a SMLE. Has anyone chrono'd 41 grains of 2208 and a 180 grain bullet, or has something with either 2208 or 2209 that is in the ball park?

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These are rounds loaded with AR2206. Jungle Carbine 35gr 180gr Sierra for a 5 shot average of 2038fps and 150gr 40gr for 5 shot average 2439fps. Factory 180gr Jugoslavija 5 shot average 2319fps. CAC factory 150gr 8 shot average 2572 fps.
Using a No 1 MK111 CAC 150 gr Factory 8 shot average was 2727. Jugoslavija factory 180gr average of 2430fps. 180gr Sierra with 37gr Ar2206 8 shot average of 2192fps. Hornady 150gr with 40gr AR2206 10 shot average of 2495fps.

Just seen this thread interesting, Ill get the chrony out today and run my load over it with the no4, and lithgow along with some mk VII. Never thought of this before just shot it but this has me interested.

Outlander, what brand do you mean by Jugoslavia factory? PPU? If so the box I had chrono'd 300 fps less than yours....:(

@CarlsenHighway What is the barrel length of your 303? Is it shortened down as a bush rifle? With a 300fps drop in speed as mentioned above, it is almost what I would expect out of a 14 inch barrel from a 303 shorty.....but not what I would expect out of a 24 inch barrel.

@timattalon from our discussions you are getting close to that with your 215gr hammers. At least you have a bit of weight and mass to help with the slower speed.
This was the sort of thing I was after in my question a couple of months back. If that was all I could get I will get my little loadall cranked up.

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Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

Outlander, what brand do you mean by Jugoslavia factory? PPU? If so the box I had chrono'd 300 fps less than yours....:(

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My apologies, that should read Factory bought YUGOSLAVIA ammo. Bear in mind that the Jungle Carbine has a 19" barrel as opposed to the MK111 with 25".

I have a 14.6 inch barrelled carbine that delivers 2018 fps with a 194 gr paper patch bullet over 44 gr AR2209. Paper patched bullets are faster than jacketed.
My 1902 Lee Enfield fitted with a No4 barrel gave me 2395 fps with Speer 180 gr RN over 38.6 gr MR200 (Somchem powder) and 2690 fps with 150 gr Hornady spire points over 40.9 gr MR200.
I load my No4 to around 2400 fps with Highland 180 grainers with 46.3 grs AR2209. This is a very accurate load in my gun. Pressure is mild.

AR2208 should deliver between 2650 and 2700 fps with 150 gr bullets and AR2209 should deliver up to 2500 fps with 180 grains.

I never get case head separation, even with full power loads.

OK I am going to try 2209 and see how I get on.

No 4 mk1 longbranch 180 gr rn over 41 ar 2208: 2340, 2305, 2365 fps in the lithgow i got 2385, 2425, 2410 fps. Two cac mk VII 42 mnf gave 2230 and 2350. The first one hung fired click-- Bang Im unsure of 180 grains maker possibly speer, I got about 900 of these at an antique arms bring n buy about 15 years ago.
I ended up shooting off about 30 rounds just enjoying these two rifles that dont get out often enough.
Thanks carlson

hard case Marty Henry.....Im loading 41grns 2208 and 180grn round nose pills in the .308
guys have long said the two catridges arent that much different

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Originally Posted by Carlsen Highway

OK I am going to try 2209 and see how I get on.

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I use 43.5gr 2209 behind a 216gr RN and get 2076fps out of a 16 inch barrel. For a 180gr pill the ADI hand book says between 44 and 48gr to get between 2300-2500fps. They use a 24in barrel and as a (very) approximate guide, drop 50fps per inch of barrel length under that if yours is shorter.

First timer on 303. Thinking of 125 or 150gr Sierra Pro Hunter? My sons mates rifle. Presumably 2208 as powder?

I think I use 180 hot cores, been ages since I loaded or even shot any of my 303s

Greetings,
Velocity in .303 rifles can be extremely variable due to the amount of erosion in the throats from firing the old cordite ammo which was very erosive. The second problem is that the chambers can be large and the headspace, which is measured on the rim, can be generous as well. The two .303 old soldiers I have here both have like new barrels and shoot well and are loaded with light loads in neck sized cases. These rifles produce velocities a little under the Hodgdon data and well above what is likely to be produced in a worn barrel. The Hornady 174 grain round nose projectile has shot well in 3 different Lee Enfields so might be a good place to start, Work up to a max of 38 grains of AR2206H which should give between 2,200 and 2,400 fps depending on barrel condition. Keeping loads below the level that you need to FL size and neck sizing cases should give significantly better case life. The .303 is not a rifle for a novice handloader.
Regards Grandpamac.

Bought new Redding dies. Bought new Redding shell holder. Using HPX brass [used] but annealed. The brass had a significant hump around the shoulder area. Sized initially by 1/4 turn in. Mate tried to chamber but no way. Went home and tried various sizing thru the die. Took home a commercial PPU loaded round. A comparison showed the sized brass had a much much smaller shoulder than the commerical round . Yet to attempt a further chambering. What step has been missed to have such a significant difference to the commercial round. Doing something wrong?

Much smaller shoulder....as in the body is fatter perhaps?? Is your resized neck sized all the way to the shoulder??? Possibly not down far enough??? Eg not hard down onto shell holder as per best practise to ensure longer brass life?? But if it was fired in your chamber it should fit back in there. If fired in big sloppy chamber and yours is tight a full length resized should get it back small enough to fit.

Photos of unfired, fired and also one you've resized will help. I keep tins for brass for each .303 as chambers often vary significantly.

Your 1/4 turn in has me puzzled possible you not hard down enough to bring fat brass back to spec.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Fire...tish_cases.jpg

This illustrates the problem

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Originally Posted by TeRei

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Fire...tish_cases.jpg

This illustrates the problem

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Greetings @TeRei,
I fished out some of my old military ammo and none look like the SAAMI spec case but more like the fired cases and the fired cases from my two rifles. A cartridge drawing from a Pet Loads article however shows a case with a long sloping shoulder like the SAAMI case. Handloading was not even thought of in the design of the .303 case which headspaces on the rim and not the shoulder. All it had to do was chamber and fire with the empty case being ejected into the mud. To get around the problems I neck size only with a Lee Loader and keep the loads light. Fired cases often chamber without sizing or are FL sized just enough to chamber and neck sized thereafter.
Regards Grandpamac.

Unfired amo will resemble the Sammi spec case not that an American standard was ever considered for brit ammo. As gmp says headspacing on the rim allows for massive chamber variation. Trying to get cases fired in one rifle to chamber in another can often be an exercise in frustration. It might be better to start with some virgin ammo and fire that for your cases

I also just neck size, lee loader as well. I just run min loads as all I shoot with mine are targets so dont need the fastest load out there

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @TeRei,
I fished out some of my old military ammo and none look like the SAAMI spec case but more like the fired cases and the fired cases from my two rifles. A cartridge drawing from a Pet Loads article however shows a case with a long sloping shoulder like the SAAMI case. Handloading was not even thought of in the design of the .303 case which headspaces on the rim and not the shoulder. All it had to do was chamber and fire with the empty case being ejected into the mud. To get around the problems I neck size only with a Lee Loader and keep the loads light. Fired cases often chamber without sizing or are FL sized just enough to chamber and neck sized thereafter.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Greetings again,
This has fascinated me a bit so I dug out a couple of cases from my scrap bucket that had shoulders that looked much the same. One was full length sized in my Lyman die from around 1970. This flattened the shoulder a little but not as much as in your picture. I looked up both the CIP and SAAMI case drawings and they were about the same. One thing I did note was that the shoulder angle for the chamber is about 3 degrees steeper than the case. This means when the case is sized the shoulder body junction is moved back slightly with the neck shoulder junction being left in about the same place. The shoulder head space is also increased slightly. Why this was done I have no idea.
Regards Grandpamac.