So I’ve plenty of military 303 milsurp for my only remaining 303, a 1955 Fazakerly, but if I were to reload what dies should I buy/start out with?
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So I’ve plenty of military 303 milsurp for my only remaining 303, a 1955 Fazakerly, but if I were to reload what dies should I buy/start out with?
Any ones you want really. If you just want functional ammo, Lee are fine. If you like nicer things then RCBS, Redding etc... but they won't necessarily make better ammo.
303 is one of the few cartridges where there's a compelling argument to stick to neck sizing. So a Lee set with the collet die would cover all your bases.
Or a Lee Loader, the whackamole one. It only neck sizes. Can produce ammo accurate far beyond accuracy of the average old military barrel. Your's may be the exception of course. But a very pleasant way to spend a couple of hours IMHO
Was thinking the Lee set with a collet die would be a good option. I have everything needed for other calibres but haven’t bothered with 303 yet as I’ve got close to a lifetime’s stock of milsurp, but might need a project when I retire…
Get a Lee collet die and just use that. You will need to put them through a fullQuote:
Originally Posted by HandH
Length die occasionally but if you are only Using one rifle you should be fine. Your brass will last indefinitely if only neck sizing.
Treat all milsurp ammo as corrosive and use the hot water trick.
And if you have multiple 303s, keep the brass for each separately.
Thank you o wise ones! Yup, I always use the hot water for milsurp cleaning, and only one service rifle left (sob) so will mainly use the collet die. Advice much appreciated!
Greetings @HandH,
Keeping the pressure down to the point that only neck sizing is needed will change a case eating tiger into a pussy cat. This is around the start loads. If you do need to FL resize only size the cases enough to just chamber with slight resistance and trim the cases. I use a Lee Loader for neck sizing. Over 40 years ago I gave up handloading a .303 and sold or rebarrelled the three I had after constant problems. Fast forward to 2020 and three more have arrived of which two remain Handloading them is a delight. Clearly I learnt a couple of things over the 40 years.
Regards Grandpamac.
Ok I'm going to be controversial here on this subject...if your mk2 is in good nick nothing wrong with full length sizing. 303 dies were hard to come by a just a few years back, couldn't find any neck size dies, set of RCBS was all I could find from Gunworks.
Anyway I tried partially sizing with F/L die, was a pain so just F/L sized as I do with other cartridges. I've had no trouble whatsoever. My PPU is probably up to 5 firings, but mainly using Greek as does look heavier, probably simular 5x plus no issues.
This neck sizing I think is for flogged out 3'O's. If its a good one just load it like any other rifle
15 x reloads on ppu brass, neck sizing only. Previously unfired no4 mk2.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson21
Neck sizing generally results on longer brass life. Need to full length size if switching the brass between rifles, or when the brass starts to harden and you don't anneal.
I don't blame you for giving up trying to neck size with a full length die, what an embuggarance!
Hmmm..this is what makes life and oir hobby/passion interesting. My 303 is an out of the grease (yeah I know the controversy) ‘Irish’ 1955 original with open sights (so with my eyesight I’m not going to be loading for groups, just to keep the old warhorse going for plinking)..
The milsurp (now there’s interesting Cold War history - in a wooden case marked South African - presumably for the Vickers?) is headstamped cyrillic balkan 1973… So SA was beating sanctions buying from the Eastern Bloc ‘enemy’! Civilian stock is 50 cartridges of PPU and 100 S&B …
Whether you are better off sticking to full length sizing or neck sizing to save your brass... it will depend on how baggy the chamber is rather than what year the rifle was made or its general condition.
Yup brutally rational. Was going to say earlier I haven’t had the chamber casted..but not wanting to get tooo precious.., or overthink it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
I wouldn't go as far as casting but it's certainly worth putting some thought into it, if it might save you having to find more brass. It will be pretty obvious once you visually compare a fired case to a new one.
It's really not that complicated. Ask someone how to set up your dies for neck sizing, and do that until they are stiff to close the bolt on and then full length size. Its really not a big deal.
Just get some Lee RGB dies, they are cheap and work, and a lee single stage press. You will need a shellholder to fit them into in your press. (The Lee one is the number 5) Order from Gunworks Christchurch.
You cant use your military brass, so you have to reload commercial brass. Use PPU.
For powders use either AR2208 or AR2209. Which ever you can find to buy in a shop.
But some pulled Greek FMjs from GUn City, or buy some Hornady 174 grain FMJ from Gun Works in Christchurch.
Large rifle primers, are the ones to buy, any brand you can find in the shop, there is a shortage of them.
You will need some lube for when you resize the cases.
You will need a micrometer measurer, so you can measure the length of your cases and the overall length of your cartridges.
Thats all you need.
If you buy a Lee kit, that you hit case into the die with a hammer, you only need brass, primers, powder and bullets. I started out on reloadng with them. They work well, but you have to find the kit because they dont make them anymore.
AS for actually doing it with a press, if you can find someone to show you how, they can show you in ten minutes. Its not rocket science. Or you can watch youtube videos and ask questions on here.
Be wary of the Lee seating dies, they are good at seating bullets on the piss. I had to lap the seating stem to get bullets straight-ish. Thats where the wacko-mole lee loader is better, perfectly straight loads all day long.
Thanks for all the pooled wisdom! I’ve loaded 416 Rigby, 375 H&H, 9.3x62, 30-06, 308, 270, 243, and have a full set of reloading toys based on a Lyman Orange press, but 303 will be the first rimmed cartridge so all suggestions appreciated.
Ppu brass is about the best available. Their factory ammo shoots well too, so using factory ammo then reusing the brass seems the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by HandH
Greetings,
Some of this has been mentioned in previous posts but this is how I go about preparing my light loads for my .303 rifles.
.303 cartridges headspace on the rim and the forward part of the chamber is cut long to allow easy chambering of rounds covered with battlefield crud. The thickness of the rim on most cases is thinner than standard so this allows a bit of slop that we can use to our advantage. When a .303 round is fired the combination of the firing pin strike and the primer firing shunts the case as far forward in the chamber as the rim allows. At this point the primer is backed out of its pocket to touch the bolt face. As pressure rises the front of the case swells to fit the chamber. If the pressure rises to higher levels the case body just in front of the solid head stretches until the case head touches the bolt face and the primer is re seated in it's pocket. It is this stretching that can lead to a crack developing in the case wall as early as the third firing if the case is FL resized with the die down hard on the shell holder.
To get decent case life with a .303 it is necessary to keep this stretching to a minimum. The first way is to use low pressure loads which will show a backed out primer and cases that can be neck sized again and again. The necks will need to be annealed every few loads. For full pressure loads the FL sizing must be kept to a minimum so that the sized case just fits back in the chamber. This requires very careful adjustment to get it right.
My .303 rifles have light loads and for those that wish to the charge can be increased until the primer protrusion on fired cases starts to reduce showing that case stretching is starting to occur. This is likely to be around the listed starting loads for the appropriate projectile. I am using 34 grains of AR2206H behind the 150 grain projectile and 32 grains behind the 174 grain RN. Both of these loads are about 2 grains below book start loads. Cases are neck sized in a Lee Loader.
One caveat is that both of my rifles have near new barrels. Well used barrels can have considerable throat erosion resulting in lower velocity. Probably for this reason there is a wide variation in the velocities in load data depending on the rifle used. My chronographed results are close to the Hodgdons data in a near new two groove barrel.
Regards Grandpamac.
One point. The primers don't alway fully reseat in their pockets. The flatten and spread and develop a flat topped "top hat:. This is not unique to rimless and occurs with rimless as well. Usually due to pushing the shoulder back too far when sizing. Well covered in past threads.
Often mistaken for over pressure.
The last of my #4s, a 1955 Fulton regulated, gave me a big fright when I first fired it. Using S&B ammo virtually every case 3/4 seperated. Called it quits and checked using a friend's head space gauge. Was massively over head spaced. Changed to a more appropriate bolt head (reasonably available back then) and my problems ceased. The previous owner was a target shooter. Maybe he had no problem with club CAC??
Greetings @zimmer,Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmer
This is why I don't consider primer appearance useful for guessing pressure. The chronograph is much more useful.
A drizzly day in HB today with fine patches just long enough to get your hopes up so I did a bit of measuring with a comparator. I was looking for the extent of stretching common with .303 loads. The .303 does not have much of a shoulder so accuracy of measurements may not be great but here is what I found. New S&B and PPU cases measured around 46.4mm using the .375 chamber with the comparator. New CAC cases were around 46.2mm and DI 42 cases only 46.0mm. Fired cases measured up to 47.0 mm with one outlier going 47.5mm. With the rimmed case the amount of stretching is limited to the free headspace on the rim with the shoulder being fire formed the remainder. With the rifle I have measured this free headspace amounts to about 0.3mm (0.012") of stretching each time you pull the trigger if you full length resize with the die down hard on the shell holder with high pressure loads. Short case life is guaranteed. Granted some rifles will have less free headspace.
Most of my cases have been given to me as once fired brass so the original load is unknown. Some have needed the shoulder bumped back to chamber freely but none are FL resized. For my rifles with full power loads cases are FL sized with the Competition shell holders.
Regards Grandpamac.
I will second this. I have been loading some 303 recently and checking the loaded rounds on a concentricity gauge is a real eye opener. Would go from perfectly concentric sized cases to wobbly as hell bullets after seating. Definitely caused by the lee seating die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Three O'Three
I like lee collet dies a lot and use them for almost everything I load for. Advice above to keep the loads light enough that the cases dont need shoulder bumping and just neck sizing them with a collet die is good advice for easy brass prep, long case life and accurate loads.
Hornady in-line seating dies are a good option if you can't afford a ForsterQuote:
Originally Posted by SixtyTen