Hi all
I’ve got a bergara BA13 308, 16.5inch barrel 1/8 twist. I’d love to get some subsonic ammo but all the factory stuff seems unavailable.
Is there a company in nz that would load it on request? Wanted for bush hunting, shots 0-60m
Cheers
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Hi all
I’ve got a bergara BA13 308, 16.5inch barrel 1/8 twist. I’d love to get some subsonic ammo but all the factory stuff seems unavailable.
Is there a company in nz that would load it on request? Wanted for bush hunting, shots 0-60m
Cheers
belmont in wanganui.....blackwatch???? just about anyone with reloading gear..... there is 3??? other threads on subsonic .308 running at present.....do a search and have a read...... you will be far better off with winchester factory 180grn powerpoint supersonics.........subs have their place,but its a small narrow niche.
Cheers I’ll try Belmont, I don’t reload and don’t know anyone who does.
The only subsonic factory load designed for hunting in NZ that I'm aware of is the inappropriately named Super-X by Winchester. Have your tried to get those? Sometimes it's worth calling the dealers as they can get them if not in stock.
For someone who knows nothing at all about .308 subs, what is the advantage? When I look at ballistics charts they seem to suggest .308 sub is going to be about half as effective as .223, is there more to it than this?
Quiet(er).
Interesting. My experience with 300BLK subs which basically have the same characteristics as .308 subs is that they are louder than expected. I added another two baffles to my DPT suppressor (total six baffles) and it's under control, but I wouldn't say Hollywood "silencer" quiet. It's subjective, but I would say as loud as unsuppressed 22LR subs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
I would say your subs are not actually subsonic if it is that loud.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
The heavier the projectile and the shorter the barrel the louder they will be as muzzel pressures are higher.
With a 90grn xtp and a 22inch barrel the firing pin and then the thock of the bullet hitting its target is literally the loudest thing from the shooters perspective.
You using factory ammo or rolling your own?Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Factory uses slow powders to help cycle those naughty semis which makes more pressure at the muzzle.
I’ve heard mention of I think Custom Cartridges in Taupō?
I have the same rifle with a DPT mini centrefire suppressor, definitely not silent but a hell of a lot quieter than supersonics.
Yea I’ve got that dpt mk2 suppressor on mine as well, just want to be as user and dog friendly as possible. Don’t see the need for super sonic for shots under 60m or so
Yea that’s the ones I’m trying to find but the dealer is also out of stock. Be keen to get someone to load those Leigh projectiles to try as well.
well Mimms.....once again I will beg to differ....to be sure IF you can place shot 100% correctly a subsonic will kill.....BUT if you miss vitals by half n inch a very pissed off animal will walk away..you have basically ZERO shock power.... its like using bow with target point arrows....long narrow wound channel....
the lehigh rounds are expensive but are reported to preform well at terminal end with big opening.....still not going to be any better than arrow with small broadhead (narrow head?) because projectile is going slow you dont get the wave of pressure disrupting stuff and not he bruising as no punch so to speak....
yes a chest shot through lungs and or heart will kill animal...BUT it can go a heck of a long way before dropping.....100 yards is long way in broken country....
as I said in first post a supersonic 180grn power point will do job so much quicker and with more authority...a near miss of vitals will impart enough shock to allow second shot even with your break open....Ive had enough cockups with docile animal at sub 50 yard range to put me off subsonics as main round..... unless all the ducks are in a row its just not as effective and margin for error is so much less. 220 grn or 150 grn makes no difference if the 150 is passing right through anyway,thats basic physics ...to be sure if smashing through pelvis/gut bag and out shoulder area it MIGHT have enough to do it...but I wouldnt bet my steak dinner on it.
there is a guy in Gisborne that was reloading for customers, Andy at HRC hunting and reloading (think that's what its called) Not my cup of tea but meant to know hes shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Bushline
Thanks for the help! I need to satisfy my itch with subsonic 308 😂
fair enough...just PLEASE do so with both eyes open..... they heck of alot of fun for plinking...awesome for bunnies n rabbits,so much more nice when finishing shot needed. lighter animal ,out in open country up close....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushline
Milky
It's not a supersonic crack, so I would say not.Quote:
Originally Posted by veitnamcam
Factory. The slow powder thing makes sense. I've noticed they are very smoky/dirty, does that fit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
a) No chronographQuote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
b) No interest
c) That makes sense. Manufacturers data: 1050 fps out of a 16 inch barrel (my barrel is 16.5 inch).
@Bushline whereabouts in tga are ya roughly? I have all the ingredients and gear sitting to my left, you're welcome to come and knock some loads together to play with. I'm in Te Puke
Awesome offer cheers, I’ll pm you. I’m in papamoa but work in te puke.
CCI had some .22LR segmented hollow points, which would break into three equal fragments on impact, a bit like the three bits inside a drill chuck.
Can you buy lead bullets for reloading of this type?
Would seem to address some of the concerns about .30 subsonics having less quick stopping power.
Attachment 159227
Yeah google lehigh controlled fracturing projectiles.
well you go ahead and use them......but dont come crying when you have shot through head and missed brain or brain stem and animal gets away..... yes in ideal world the shot will be right dead centre where you want it to be....... as a bush hunter first n foremost...I often DONT have the liberty of time to find rest or indeed ability to see deer if taking rest.....so shots arent always exactly in optimal position....cant off top of head think of last time a deer went more than 20 yards all the same,would have to be...3 years ago in open country and she went downhill towards me so was ok.... had that been in bush...not so easy to find.... Ive shot 20 animals I guess with subsonics 17 of them no issue at all.....the other 3 I wont repeat ,went back to using .223 and will continue to do so,its just so much more humain.
if you are using suppressor a load thats in between will still be very quiet but will have a lot more shock factor when it hits,will expand much better and give larger margin for error. something 1500-2000fps would be ideal....
but each to their own .
as for needing more trigger time...3 hares tonight between 100-200 yards all upper shoulder neck shot,single round each...BUT I has steady rest and time on my side....
you can shoot deer with buckshot too...many of us have done so.....but if you dont hit head/neck/spine dont expect it to drop on spot....same thing with subsonics, you dont get the energy traspher or shock so it relies on bleeding out to work....that can take time.
I dont use super expandy projectiles....my favourite bush loads are big fat heavy round nose jobbies.....
Gun city in Chch have 308 Winchester subsonic ammo
Cheers just seen a local shop does now as well. Strange because the importer still shows out of stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by outdoorlad
Iv tryed some 308 subbies on roos,under 50yds.Managed to stop a few shooting thru the back axel,they dont go far.Couple of shots thru the gut,shot just pencils and roos runs away to die,head shot a couple.Iv decides not use subs any more,iv still got half the packet in the safe.Id never use them on deer,i like a deer to drop on the spot.Not run for a few hours to die slowly.
Valid points MD. My own use for a subsonic rifle is goats. Still want a humane kill which I hope to get with projectiles deigned to expand at subsonic speeds. If this doesn't work, I'll switch to supersonic rounds which in 300BLK have a similar energy to .223. I'll nearly went 45/70 which would have been a better bush gun, but noise levels put me off even in subsonic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
308 subs are great, I used them for a long time
talk to Robert on here about his 151gr cast hollow points and push them with trailboss
they will do everything a subsonic commercial load will do with a far lower price
iv got a 300blk now and subx commercial stuff is super convienient but no where near as quiet as my 165gr Nosler ballistic tip sub load.
mostly because they load it really close to the sound barrier(1050FPS) and it is in the transonic zone If you slow your loads down to 850 they are substantially quieter.
If you fire two shots in a row and find the second far quieter the issue is first round pop, which is the air in the suppressor flashing off and giving a pop on the first shot. the second shot has the benifit of all the oxygen in the suppressor burnt out and dosent suffer the same fate.
a slippery high BC pill like the nosler ballistic tip seems to have far less flight noise than the bull nosed projectiles too. Its just a shame that you can almost re use them after shooting as only the plastic tip breaks off when it hits something going that slow, IE zero expansion
there is a lot going on in the head of an animal, shooting it in the head is not good enough. when I was young I dropped a stag in a paddoc with my 308 150gr softpoint full house supersonic in the head, it regained consiousness and nearly killed me as I was about to cut its throat
having a chart that shows you helps and there are plenty out there for Pigs
Attachment 159235
I did chest shoot a running pig to stop it killing my elderly bird dog, I think I lucked out and got a Hilar zone shot, it was completly anchored and unable to stand but not dead.
very desperate times using a sub in those suituations but they can do the job just fine if you can put them in the right spot
If you cannot hit a 50c coin every shot at the range you are looking at hunting you need either more practice or to not shoot that far
accuraccy is everything, count on zero expansion and you will do fine
if you can get your load reeeeeallly quiet and you are hunting mobs of pigs and can do so without them seeing/smelling you, You will often get two pigs instead of one as the others see one fall and kick, wonder what is going on and walk over and give it a sniff.
only seems to work on the first one tho everything else scatters after the second one falls
with subx you dont really get this unless its really windy and I find shooting single straglers better as to not spook the group
And remember that another use for subs (cheapies at least) is to spook animals that are feeding away out of range, back towards you. I was given a swag of old fmj projos, and loaded them up subsonic and have placed them into old tree trunks maybe 100-200m beyond an animal looking like its feeding back into cover, or is further away than I like to shoot. The thok! of the projo hitting the tree usually turns the animal away, and has them come back towards you (if you have the wind and terrain to your advantage). Then a supersonic round to do the job when back in range.
Note: I only use rounds I have hand loaded and know they are running at less than 1000 fps on the home range, so that they remain subsonic when I head back to my hunting area above 1000m altitude
Yep. Chrono them too. I found factory Sub-X claimed at 1050 was doing 1142. My guess is that without a gas port tapping off some of the pressure, it's driving the bullet too fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by MB
Get hold of Dean Maisey Tauranga gunsmith he loads sub sonic .308s Also Mark Bridgman at Custom Cartridges Taupo
Yea my bergara is going to dean anyway so I’ll see what he can do with subs for me at the same time 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by shooternz
I’ve shot a few hundred red deer with subs and mostly with purpose built expanding subsonic projectiles from Lehigh Defence. Shot placement is key but if the it is a little off the Lehigh 168gr Controlled Fracturing is a little more forgiving on placement as on impact the bullet fractures apart sending petals, centre pin and base shearing off in all directions causing massive internal damage like a shotgun buck shot. They don’t tend to go far on a lung or hilar shot.
Here’s a few Lehigh 194gr Maximum Expansion projectiles recovered from red deer and a 168gr Controlled Fracturing pulled from a large hind, the base was found on the skin on the opposite side. The loaded round a Lehigh 168gr CF in 300 BLK. and would work equally well in a fast twist 308win.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9eec4c06_b.jpg
What powder are you using behind them @tikka?
AR2205 for everything supers and subs in the blackout. Never bothered about other powders as I get sub MOA accuracy using most assortment of projectiles, especially with the 208gr ELDs 1/4 MOA that I use for goats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_90
Good to know. I'm working on getting a reliable sub load for the howa mini. Loaded a few test runs with AR2207 but haven't been overly impressed so far.
Thanks for that, awesome information. I’ve purposely bought my bergara for this type of use as it’s got the 1/8 twist.Quote:
Originally Posted by tikka
