30Cal 168gr Sierra TMK vs 168Amax

Have been using the 168TMK in my tikka 18in 308 doing 2805fps, awesome ballistics as good as you’ll probably get with BC of .535 so ballistics are up there with a flatter shooting calibre…

Have shot 50+ animals most shots 200-500yds the damage is devastating, bullet is often found under the skin on far side, big animals usually drop, smaller deer will usually only take a few steps…

But… I’ve lost a few of late due to thick bush and lack of blood with the lack of an exit wound.

I’ve shot a few recently with the 7mm Rem mag and 162Eldm and it’s been nice to have blood trails again!!

I’m thinking of moving to the AMax but am hesident with the lower BC of .475 and the extra wind drift and greater drop (although both can be accounted for)

Will I get the same damage as the Eldms with the Amax?
Will they be effective on small and large animals close and far away?

Thanks and good hunting

I used the 168 amax for many years and performance was simmilar to what you described the TMK doing. If wanting something a bit less fragile maybe try the sierra tipped game king (gamechanger) ypu should be able to get them to 500-600 on deer in a 308. Or maybe eldx

Thanks for advise I’ll try Eldx and report back! Or I’ll resort back to the 7mil-a-killer

MAYBE you would be better to slightly change your point of aim..... if your getting good results now...changing might be a step backwards.is there any common theme range wise on your lost animals??? eg closer or waay out there???
its going to be the old balancing act all over again...bit harder will penertrate more but do less damage...same with further out/slower
and your choice will also be dictated by what you can actually purchase

I think you actually answered that question yourself, finding some on the far side just under the skin indicates sometimes you are getting complete energy transfer to the target animal 200-500yds, whereas in thick bush (and what I'm assuming being 'thick bush' it is a much closer ranged shot) you are losing animals due to insufficient energy transfer and not enough damage to create a decent blood trail. That's kind of indicative of a pill that's a little outside of it's velocity range where it's happiest doing it's thing, normally you would consider this with lightly built projectiles like a varmint bullet just literally exploding when they hit something solid. In this case I think the bullet is probably doing it's job but at the close range speeds it's already out the other side before the full upsetting process has occurred. With deer they are comparatively lightly-built, and with the higher speeds if you hit something solid you get explosive terminal effects but on the other hand if you only get soft gooey stuff the bullet might not expand enough to create a decent wound cavity before it's punched through. It might indicate that the close range impacts are at a velocity higher than what the bullet will expand reliably at.

Possible answer here is retain the TMK for longer ranged shots, and find something with a similar point of impact at shorter ranges but is capable of faster expansion/upset on impact.

YOU SAY WHAT?????
its the other way around..at close range it will rip itelf to shreds and not penertrate enough if anything...the only way it can possibly zip through is if it slips between ribs ,through lungs and zips out between ribs again..effectively meeting about as much resistance as your average sized bunny rabbit...thats talking a soft expanding projectile...and a more stout projectile will be worst in the zip through but better if meets resistance... take out them front wheels and it wont be driving anywhere....

Run something like Speer 150 or 165gn HC for up close to 300 yd, keep your TMKs for +300

168TMK tikka 18in 308 doing 2805fps, I coming to you for reloading advise. Do you reuse your brass?

Greetings,
Those who believe in knocking deer flat and obscure things like complete energy transfer should read the report on Matt Grant's 1947 experiment on the subject. This was published in his and his son Bruce Grant's book the sharp shooter of which there are plenty of copies around and should be required reading for all hunters. Is that right @Micky Duck?
Regards Grandpamac.

in short..as politely as possible farkin oath it is!!!

I can even supply said photo if you like LOL.....
forever and a day this "thing" about zipping through and not expanding "because its going too fast" has been around....and if you stop and think about it for a nanosecound you will see it just cannot happen like that in 99.9999% of cases.
now if you were to suggest it went through without expanding BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TOO SLOW however...you might well have a valid point
this is why the varmit type projectiles work so well at reduced velocity..they still expand a little bit and still hold together as forces arent enough anymore to shred them like what would happen going fast......and the controlled expansion/premium bonded types can be rather hohum through to out right suckimoto when used at extreme distances..they are no longer encountering enough resistance to open up at reduced velocity because THEY WERE DESIGNED to operate at high velocity ....and hold together when meeting resistance.....like said above its a balancing act.

The amax is brilliant only issues iv had with it are wet sheep and that stops plenty of bullets

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I can even supply said photo if you like LOL.....
forever and a day this "thing" about zipping through and not expanding "because its going too fast" has been around....and if you stop and think about it for a nanosecound you will see it just cannot happen like that in 99.9999% of cases.
now if you were to suggest it went through without expanding BECAUSE IT WAS GOING TOO SLOW however...you might well have a valid point
this is why the varmit type projectiles work so well at reduced velocity..they still expand a little bit and still hold together as forces arent enough anymore to shred them like what would happen going fast......and the controlled expansion/premium bonded types can be rather hohum through to out right suckimoto when used at extreme distances..they are no longer encountering enough resistance to open up at reduced velocity because THEY WERE DESIGNED to operate at high velocity ....and hold together when meeting resistance.....like said above its a balancing act.

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Agreed

Great advice and very much appreciated!
Shots of lost animals are 150-250yds so that concurs to what you’re saying, pass through with little damage therefore no blood, I’m not one to carry two seperate rounds, but can try it as it’s great advise.
It’s a fast barrel that’s for sure brass has some pressure signs but still ok have lapua brass on 5th reloads and still going strong.
Too true about wanting perfect kills everytime, would be a good read the article by
Matt Grant.
I will try the projectiles recommended and report back.

hold the line caller..I shall need to change to my handheld cellular communications device and take photo from the paper thing in the book shelf....

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What’s your load ? I’m only getting 2670 using 2206H

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Originally Posted by flock

168TMK tikka 18in 308 doing 2805fps, I coming to you for reloading advise. Do you reuse your brass?

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Was going to question that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

YOU SAY WHAT?????
its the other way around..at close range it will rip itelf to shreds and not penertrate enough if anything...the only way it can possibly zip through is if it slips between ribs ,through lungs and zips out between ribs again..effectively meeting about as much resistance as your average sized bunny rabbit...thats talking a soft expanding projectile...and a more stout projectile will be worst in the zip through but better if meets resistance... take out them front wheels and it wont be driving anywhere....

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Remember the tmk isn't a hunting bullet, it's a heavy jacket target pill. It's unlikely to expand explosively like a varmint bullet and if the speed is high it's going to act more a heavy fmj than a hollow point. Going slower it is more likely to upset off bore line and create a bigger wound that way combined with a small amount of expansion...

Best advice, get a hunting bullet.