44-40 ammo

Just bought an old marlin lever action, looks like ammo is as rare as hens teeth and prices are through the roof.
Not too sure if its a good idea to put jacketed rounds through this old gun, although copper should still be softer than the steel?
Ive got a pack of the stuff that came with the gun, about 20 rounds or so of modern jacketed ammo and a few older ones with lead rounds, not sure if they have corrosive primers or not.
Is reloading feasible? I dont have any reloading gear, but wonder if its worth talking to someone in a pistol club or black powder club. I expect reloading would be the most economical way to shoot this caliber.

Yes reloading is the most economical way to shoot it, if you can find the brass.
There is bound to be someone up that way who could load some ammo for you.

And I've only ever shot lead through mine.
CAS rules so thats just the way it is.

Lead projectiles are much cheaper also

Reloading is definitely the most economical.
The Winchester 200gr 44-40 jacketed soft point ammo will probably be fine as it is absolutely piss weak.
I've got 80 Rounds of the Factory Winchester ammo. Cost me 139.99 for 50 rounds. I don't use it as I reload and have several hundred rounds on hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jim160

And I've only ever shot lead through mine.
CAS rules so thats just the way it is.

Lead projectiles are much cheaper also

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Yeah no surprises there, I see that gun city has the cowboy rounds, but they still not cheap.
Are the primers the same as other calibers?
I really need to get a reloading press if something turns up. I have some spare brass here too which is good.
Are molds available to cast the bullets? That would even give more cost savings I expect.

PM shooterNZ for cast projectiles.
Think he’s on TM as well
Large pistol primers are the way to go.

@JohnDuxbury knows the secrets for this cartridge/rifle hopefully he will chime in...but do a forum search as there is good thread already on them

Following with great interest

Plenty of reloading done. Me and a mate do a fair bit with Rossi 92s..As above John Duxbury is very knowledgeable. Do the research incl on this forum as the brass needs care especially with smokeless powder loads. A Lee FCD is mandatory if not seating your bullet on Black Powder. I use both lead from shooternz but also 44mag powder coated Hawke River projectiles from Delta Mike. The latter are very uniform, accurate and reliable also pretty cheap. Mate uses a lot of Titegroup loads and seems to have no trouble with bullets recessing in mag tube, using heavy crimp with the Lee FCD. I like AR 2205. John Duxbury got me headed in the right direction. Have fun

I usually load with black powder but also have been using 700X, but that's almost run out so I will be using APS350 once the 700X is gone.
Be interesting to see if there is any unburnt powder with the APS350. There always seems to be unburnt powder with the 700X

https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....choices-80481/

heres more great info form this forum not from me but i have used this with great results

What rifle are you reloading for?
Do you know what bore size you have?

If you have a modern rifle then it is most likely you have a .430 bore size. The 200g Hornady XTP is an excellent jacketed bullet. (You can use the 240 grain XTP as well.)

I reload a lot of .44 WCF for two different rifles, with both smokeless and blackpowder. Send me a PM if you want to know anything. For dies, get whatever you like, but make sure you order a Lee crimp die from (Reloaders Supplies) You will need it if you want to crimp your cartridges. (With the thin .44-40 case mouth, other crimps do not work well)

Everything is the same as normal except you have to expand the case mouth a little to seat a bullet. It's not really harder than anything and you wont wreck any cases if your using a Lee crimp die to crimp with..

If you are loading for a lever action, then using a crimp that will hold the bullet is important, again the Lee crimp die is partly the answer, but the best answer is to use a bulk powder load that fills the entire case and supports the bullet, either black powder, or with smokeless use AR2207 or RE7.

Black powder requires you compress the powder. It also requires a soft cast lead bullet, and a soft lube. If the bullet is pure lead (which is what they used) then it doesn't matter what diameter or bore size you have really, it will bump up in the bore with black powder. (But may not with smokeless.)

Despite what the internet says it is still possible to load 40 grains of black powder in a modern case (and always was) there is some old knowledge that has been lost regarding black powder reloading.
Velocity is 1130fps from the '73 and 1200fps from the '92. Shot three deer so far with this load and never got a bullet back despite the soft pure lead and the low velocity. If you want to try blackpowder let me know and I can tell you more if your interested.


Smokeless loads with a 200 grain lead (or jacketed) bullet:

8.5 grains of AP70N (Universal in American books, or a close similar powder to Unique) and a 200 grain bullet is very accurate in both my rifles (ten shots into 1.5 inches at 100 yards.) low powered but accurate about 1120 fps. (Same as a .44 Rimfire - appropriate for a Winchester 66 or a Henry rifle) This will kill a deer just fine, but I consider it a gallery load. Would be good for CAS if that's what your into.

26 grains of AR2207 (H4198) mimics the original Dupont bulk smokeless load introduced in 1895 - the powder fills the case like black powder does, and supports the bullet ( so it doesn't telescope inside the case in a lever action magazine tube) Needs a solid crimp to burn properly. Quite accurate (1.5 inch groups at 100 metres depending on the bullet. XTP's are great.) Excellent smokeless load for the 1873, 1866, and Henry rifles. Velocity is the same as the original .44-40 load - 1380 fps from a Winchester 92, and 1300 fps from my Winchester 73.

This same load can be made with Reloader 7 also, giving a little higher velocity (1400 fps), and yet still suitable for '66's and 73's.

A duplex load of 2 grains of AP70N as a primer under 24 grains of AR2207 will make a cartridge that mimics the high velocity load that Winchester introduced in 1903 and manufactured until WW2. This give 1500-1600fps depending on the rifle. Jacketed bullet only. This is a '92 load only.

24 grains of AR2205 (H4227) will give a high velocity load up near .44 magnum territory with a jacketed bullet. Accuracy is good with an XTP, and velocity is 1680 - 1700fps. This is a '92 load only.


The .44-40 is one of my favourite cartridges. I am not a CAS shooter though, I hunt deer with mine.
Last edited by Carlsen Highway; 18-02-2018 at 11:38 PM.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluecod1967

heres more great info form this forum not from me but i have used this with great results

What rifle are you reloading for?
Do you know what bore size you have?

If you have a modern rifle then it is most likely you have a .430 bore size. The 200g Hornady XTP is an excellent jacketed bullet. (You can use the 240 grain XTP as well.)

I reload a lot of .44 WCF for two different rifles, with both smokeless and blackpowder. Send me a PM if you want to know anything. For dies, get whatever you like, but make sure you order a Lee crimp die from (Reloaders Supplies) You will need it if you want to crimp your cartridges. (With the thin .44-40 case mouth, other crimps do not work well)

Everything is the same as normal except you have to expand the case mouth a little to seat a bullet. It's not really harder than anything and you wont wreck any cases if your using a Lee crimp die to crimp with..

If you are loading for a lever action, then using a crimp that will hold the bullet is important, again the Lee crimp die is partly the answer, but the best answer is to use a bulk powder load that fills the entire case and supports the bullet, either black powder, or with smokeless use AR2207 or RE7.

Black powder requires you compress the powder. It also requires a soft cast lead bullet, and a soft lube. If the bullet is pure lead (which is what they used) then it doesn't matter what diameter or bore size you have really, it will bump up in the bore with black powder. (But may not with smokeless.)

Despite what the internet says it is still possible to load 40 grains of black powder in a modern case (and always was) there is some old knowledge that has been lost regarding black powder reloading.
Velocity is 1130fps from the '73 and 1200fps from the '92. Shot three deer so far with this load and never got a bullet back despite the soft pure lead and the low velocity. If you want to try blackpowder let me know and I can tell you more if your interested.


Smokeless loads with a 200 grain lead (or jacketed) bullet:

8.5 grains of AP70N (Universal in American books, or a close similar powder to Unique) and a 200 grain bullet is very accurate in both my rifles (ten shots into 1.5 inches at 100 yards.) low powered but accurate about 1120 fps. (Same as a .44 Rimfire - appropriate for a Winchester 66 or a Henry rifle) This will kill a deer just fine, but I consider it a gallery load. Would be good for CAS if that's what your into.

26 grains of AR2207 (H4198) mimics the original Dupont bulk smokeless load introduced in 1895 - the powder fills the case like black powder does, and supports the bullet ( so it doesn't telescope inside the case in a lever action magazine tube) Needs a solid crimp to burn properly. Quite accurate (1.5 inch groups at 100 metres depending on the bullet. XTP's are great.) Excellent smokeless load for the 1873, 1866, and Henry rifles. Velocity is the same as the original .44-40 load - 1380 fps from a Winchester 92, and 1300 fps from my Winchester 73.

This same load can be made with Reloader 7 also, giving a little higher velocity (1400 fps), and yet still suitable for '66's and 73's.

A duplex load of 2 grains of AP70N as a primer under 24 grains of AR2207 will make a cartridge that mimics the high velocity load that Winchester introduced in 1903 and manufactured until WW2. This give 1500-1600fps depending on the rifle. Jacketed bullet only. This is a '92 load only.

24 grains of AR2205 (H4227) will give a high velocity load up near .44 magnum territory with a jacketed bullet. Accuracy is good with an XTP, and velocity is 1680 - 1700fps. This is a '92 load only.


The .44-40 is one of my favourite cartridges. I am not a CAS shooter though, I hunt deer with mine.
Last edited by Carlsen Highway; 18-02-2018 at 11:38 PM.

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Ive recently bought an old Marlin 1889, just taken it into the store the other day and told me the rifling is still pretty good.
I had spoken to custom cartridges and he told me to slug the bore to work out the correct size, but ive been told that this bore is still good enough to put the standard sized rounds through it.
I dont know alot about reloading yet, but my friend has all the gear and I could get the right dies if necessary.
I was talking to reloaders supplies and he talked about "large" rifle primers but said they were out of stock and I asked what about pistol primers and he was like, oh yeah that would be the better choice.
Black powder would be more authentic I guess, but the hassle of cleaning the gun afterwards puts me off a little.
Ive got some ammo that came with it, mostly jacketed winchester and a few older rounds that im unsure if they have a corrosive primer or not.

Hi, If you are looking for 44/40 reloading dies I maybe able to help you out, I sourced a Lyman set for customer this week can check if the are any more in stock,
Today I will starting castings for a few orders of 44/40 projectiles 206 grain hollow points
Broncos in Tauranga has Fiocchi large pistol primers in stock at a good price they also so have Alliant Red Dot powder which is very good for medium loads
I have a 1 pound of Alliant Unque and 1 pound Alliant 2400 both good for the 44/40
Email robs.reload@gmail.com
phone 021 02724412

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shooternz

Hi, If you are looking for 44/40 reloading dies I maybe able to help you out, I sourced a Lyman set for customer this week can check if the are any more in stock,
Today I will starting castings for a few orders of 44/40 projectiles 206 grain hollow points
Broncos in Tauranga has Fiocchi large pistol primers in stock at a good price they also so have Alliant Red Dot powder which is very good for medium loads
I have a 1 pound of Alliant Unque and 1 pound Alliant 2400 both good for the 44/40
Email robs.reload@gmail.com
phone 021 02724412

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Thanks, thats good to know, I was just looking at your listings on trademe.
it might still be a good idea to slug the bore, i was told that there is a shipment of Italian stuff coming into the country soon which is supposed to be a good buy for the brass alone.