44 mag powder coated lead accuracy @ $0.31 per projectile

I've mentioned in previous posts my liking for HRBC powder coated pure lead flat pointed projectiles I use in my pistol calibre Rossi 92 Puma Lever rifles..I got to finally complete some load testing with 44mag loads I built back in early 21 during Auckland lockdown. I had a 16" at the time but eventually changed it out for my preferred 20" barrel. I've done a fair number of goats with my 357mag with 158gn PC and also lubed lead bullets in both RN and Flat point. Shot in the right area goats are not that hard to kill and if they don't have hunting pressure on them they also are not hard to get up on. In the latter circumstance, a 10 round LA is a useful culling tool. As with other similar cartridges real accuracy comes down to finding the right node and they often are not in the top quartile of possible velocities. I have loads that knock on the door and go over 2000fps but good grouping does not usually come with them.

Here is a group I was ecstatic to find today in an incremental load test where the max charge was topping 1900fps.

This group was shot seated at a wooden picnic table with a front rest, no back rest, Rossi Puma 92 Stainless 20in with a Vortex Crossfire II Scout Scope at 47.5m.

x4 Rounds

240 gn HRBC Flatpoint (https://www.deltamike.co.nz/product/...0-projectiles/)

IMR SR4759 21.0gn
Winchester Primer
3/4 Lee FCD Crimp on front crimp groove.

Velocities/fps
1675
1628
1645
1637

Attachment 233027

This is a load from published data, Hogdon Online.Your mileage may differ. Safe in my rifle maybe not in yours. Please check for yourself.

The flat pointed lead bullet is an effective killing projectile with a long proven history back to Elmer Keith. No I don't own shares in Hawke River or Delta Mike.

Used the same projectile in a modern 44-40. Same excellent results.
But don't push them too hard, I tried them in .38 Super in a pistol and the fast burning powder chewed them up at about 1400 FPS, the few I recovered had considerable gas cutting and while they had good speed they didn't hold pressure so often didn't fully cycle the slide.

I wouldn't be surprised if your observed drop off in accuracy as speed increased is likely the coating beginning to fail.

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Originally Posted by Makros

Used the same projectile in a modern 44-40. Same excellent results.
But don't push them too hard, I tried them in .38 Super in a pistol and the fast burning powder chewed them up at about 1400 FPS, the few I recovered had considerable gas cutting and while they had good speed they didn't hold pressure so often didn't fully cycle the slide.

I wouldn't be surprised if your observed drop off in accuracy as speed increased is likely the coating beginning to fail.

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Yes I also use them in 44-40 and agree. Much above 1650fps in the 44mag accuracy drops and I'm of the same view that gas cutting and coating failure contributes to that. In the 44-40 the sweetest performance is around 1450fps..plenty enough killing power right there. I ran some Hdy 240gn XTP-HP from the 44mag at mid 1900fps with near as good a group. The FMJ is no doubt the difference. Gas checked cast would go above 1650fps well enough but I don't have the need. I have other calibres better suited for over 150m hunting.

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Yes I also use them in 44-40 and agree. Much above 1650fps in the 44mag accuracy drops and I'm of the same view that gas cutting and coating failure contributes to that. In the 44-40 the sweetest performance is around 1450fps..plenty enough killing power right there. I ran some Hdy 240gn XTP-HP from the 44mag at mid 1900fps with near as good a group. The FMJ is no doubt the difference. Gas checked cast would go above 1650fps well enough but I don't have the need. I have other calibres better suited for over 150m hunting.

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1450fps with AR2207 is exactly the speed I'm using the 44-40 at too, large single hole at 50m with tang sights.

dam it ill have to get some now cheers

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Yes I also use them in 44-40 and agree. Much above 1650fps in the 44mag accuracy drops and I'm of the same view that gas cutting and coating failure contributes to that. In the 44-40 the sweetest performance is around 1450fps..plenty enough killing power right there. I ran some Hdy 240gn XTP-HP from the 44mag at mid 1900fps with near as good a group. The FMJ is no doubt the difference. Gas checked cast would go above 1650fps well enough but I don't have the need. I have other calibres better suited for over 150m hunting.

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Mind sharing your load for the xtp?think I might be running mine a bit quick with 22.5g ar2205 ,16in barrel Rossi . Thanks

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Originally Posted by The bomb

Mind sharing your load for the xtp?think I might be running mine a bit quick with 22.5g ar2205 ,16in barrel Rossi . Thanks

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24gn of Belmont Magnum Pistol Powder which is W296 repackaged. This is published max load for 240gn Hdy Jacketed HP. 20in barrel delivering average of 1750fps, Rossi Puma 92. Recoil is moderate (cf 350gn bullet from 454Casull lol).

I find near max or max loads in W296 tend to give best groups across calibres (22 Hornet, 357mag, 44mag). Not my favourite powder for cast however. Prob because most cast I've ever bought is not made for higher velocities. Hope to do better casting my own, eventually.

W296 was allegedly developed for the 44mag and .410bore shotgun.

would these go well on deer?

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Originally Posted by NewbieZAR

would these go well on deer?

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HRBC or XTP, both will absolutely. Just know your rifle, your load and your ability for shot placement to whatever you consider your max effective range. For me these are 100m nominal loads. Prefer 50m, if I had good conditions and a rest maybe 150m. I have been using a drill to make a shallow broad cup in the flat point of the HRBC 240gn in my 44-40 and it makes no appreciable diff to 50m groups. Have not tested them in the field yet but expect them to be very effective indeed.

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Originally Posted by Jhon

HRBC or XTP, both will absolutely. Just know your rifle, your load and your ability for shot placement to whatever you consider your max effective range. For me these are 100m nominal loads. Prefer 50m, if I had good conditions and a rest maybe 150m. I have been using a drill to make a shallow broad cup in the flat point of the HRBC 240gn in my 44-40 and it makes no appreciable diff to 50m groups. Have not tested them in the field yet but expect them to be very effective indeed.

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Do the HRBC ones mushroom at all? Currently using sierras "sportmaster i think" hollowpoints. They work well

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Originally Posted by NewbieZAR

Do the HRBC ones mushroom at all? Currently using sierras "sportmaster i think" hollowpoints. They work well

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I've never recovered one to see. Someone else may have. The lead is soft enough that I would expect it to deform significantly hitting shoulder bone. Adding a cup point would just about guarantee it with a body shot but would need to see it to be factual. They are cheap enough to experiment and a national goat hunting comp is good incentive to try them out. What they do on a goat is good evidence of what they will do on deer. Have a go...

Ive just poked together some piggy viagra....little blue pills that makem go stiff LOL
some neat wee 212grn cast supplied by a good fela with 23grns of lilgun behind them....cause thats powder I have on hand...other than ap30 and ap50
they should go very nicely I feel on bailed porkers.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ive just poked together some piggy viagra....little blue pills that makem go stiff LOL
some neat wee 212grn cast supplied by a good fela with 23grns of lilgun behind them....cause thats powder I have on hand...other than ap30 and ap50
they should go very nicely I feel on bailed porkers.

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Calibre?

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Originally Posted by Jhon

Calibre?

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429

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

429

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No shit?

my pig hunting buddy was most impressed when handed them to him today...loved the look of the last 5 Berries 240grn hps in the box too..man are those wee puppies slick to load into cases.
its a .44magnum thread...... they were loaded into .44mag cases...speaking of which,had really weird one happen TWICE today.. primer didnt leave pocket and pin poked right through...what a bitch to rectify...5mm drill bit and case help in alloy soft jaws in vice sorted it..the primer flash holes on the PMC bronze cases were about 50% of the time on the piss,maybe a mm off the centre so pin poked into side of primer and tried to pull it out on angle.
in 30 years of reloading Ive never struck that before.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

my pig hunting buddy was most impressed when handed them to him today...loved the look of the last 5 Berries 240grn hps in the box too..man are those wee puppies slick to load into cases.
its a .44magnum thread...... they were loaded into .44mag cases...speaking of which,had really weird one happen TWICE today.. primer didnt leave pocket and pin poked right through...what a bitch to rectify...5mm drill bit and case help in alloy soft jaws in vice sorted it..the primer flash holes on the PMC bronze cases were about 50% of the time on the piss,maybe a mm off the centre so pin poked into side of primer and tried to pull it out on angle.
in 30 years of reloading Ive never struck that before.

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I was having a slow night Micky, and you often run at a tangent :) -.but thank you for pointing me back in the right direction :) :)

Yes I've had that happen with a primer trying to recollect calibre, I fancy it was 223 possibly with a military crimp. Couple of times and just chucked them in my dead brass bin. But I'd prob drill a 44mag case too. Glad it worked out for you. Otherwise I'd feel compelled to send a replacement lol

this is probably the BEST /most appropriate place to pose this question....
the .44 magnum which PRIMER is supposed to be used, LPP or LRP I have been using LRP without any issues but if the pistol version is available maybe its better to be using them????

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

this is probably the BEST /most appropriate place to pose this question....
the .44 magnum which PRIMER is supposed to be used, LPP or LRP I have been using LRP without any issues but if the pistol version is available maybe its better to be using them????

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Doesn't matter, as long as if using LRP the primer must sit flush (they are slightly taller) and the hammer has enough force to set them off (thicker primer cup), if using LPP the primer is thick enough that it's not bursting or excessively flowing into the firing pin hole (thinner cup). Neither is better than the other if they go off and handle pressure, the precautionary would probably say work up your loads for each but I'd probably only work up if going from LRP to LPP rather than LPP to LRP. Primer cup thickness varies between brands so you may find some LPPs not up to the task.

In saying this 44mag is operating at the ~36k PSI range and many other pistol cartridges that use LPP are in the ~20k PSI range so you may find LPPs aren't up to snuff and Large Pistol Magnum Primers are required.

There probably is a difference in the amount of priming compound in them but I've moved between both and never noticed much difference in velocities or signs of pressure and I suspect only a problem if you're already on the max loading.

thanks bud thats just what I was hoping for...carry on as have been,no problems so dont go looking for any...definately are not loading hot.

Have you tried the 6.5 ones yet