Thread: 6.5 Creedmoor load development

What H2O capacity did the Peterson brass yield? I've seen somewhere that it is listed at 53.1gr.

I cant recall that sorry and I didnt write down.. they are all loaded up along with some Lapua brass with 41.5gr of 2209 and 143gr ELDX for testing.. Ill be back from the range in a couple of hours and Ill check for you.

Originally Posted by Flyblown

What H2O capacity did the Peterson brass yield? I've seen somewhere that it is listed at 53.1gr.

I'll check it for you. Just resized 40 Peterson cases so I'll have to donate a live CCI 450 primer.

Well, I tried. Filled a new case with water but it's just about impossible to get all the water out to weigh so gave up. Weighed the case dry and filled it up and it doesn't give reliable readings. I'll try again later.

Erm, how about weighing an empty case and then a full case? Appreciate you trying to help me calcs, I'll post you a primer!

No need, I used a spent primer, just reseated it. Okay, after several tries. Had to poke the air bubbles out of the case with an Allen key got two readings of 50.90gn Will now try it on a new Lapua case. Both cases have been trimmed to the same length.

The Lapua case holds 51.14gn. A difference of .24gn. Not as much difference as I would've expected. Of course most cases of the same brand are going to be slightly different in weight anyway even if their capacity is the same. All measurements taken on an A&D FXi 550 scale which is accurate to 1/50th of a grain or 0.02gn.

El cheapo Frankford arsenal digital scale but similar results. The Peterson case is about 4gr heavier than the Lapua brass and held 0.8gr less water.


Peterson



Lapua


Peterson


Lapua


Ill write up todays range report tonight.

Got out to the range today and set up for some more test loads. I had to shoot from 110yds as my 100yd prone location was a mud pit after the rain.

I loaded up a few rounds of the 143gr ELDX in Lapua brass and also twice fired Peterson brass with 41.5gr of ADI 2209 and seated them to my pre chamber mod COAL of 2.754" this gave a massive jump to the lands but Im really just looking at pressure not accuracy. I also loaded 5 with the same charge and seated them to fit my mag wich gave 15 thou jump to the lands, this is to see if the velocity and pressure dropped off and see if accuracy got better.






This is 5 shots of the Lapua 136gr Scenar in Lapua brass with RL16 powder.
The first cold bore shot of the day with a clean barrel (boretech eliminator) was the low one in the group and showed a lower velocity of
2862fps then 2895fps, 2898fps, 2893fps & 2900fps. Even with the low shot it is a 1/2 MOA group at 110yds. The brass shows nothing remotely exciting going on.





The next was 5 rounds is my other pet load of 130gr Sierra tipped match kings in Lapua brass with RL16 powder.

2946fps, 2938fps, 2951fps, 2946fps, 2942fps

Another boring sub 1/2 MOA group. Those are my control groups in which I hope to demonstrate the rifle shoots and my hand loads are consistent. The brass also shows no signs of high pressure.



Now for the 2209 that gave me so many problems at the start...
First up the exact same load with deep seated ELDX that I noted as too hot and sticky bolt in my notes. One thing to note is my old data was with the 24" barrel shooting an average of 2730fps but the extreme spread was terrible. It is now at 20" so the drop in velocity was expected.

2606fps, 2626fps, 2651fps, 2625fps, 2631fps

The brass showed the same high pressure ejector marks as before and the bolt had notable friction on the lift. The group was about 1.4"ctc which is by far the worst group Ive shot in this rifle, to be fair the drop in velocity probably can be blamed for that as they still shot under an inch in my first tests.







No this is where I got a bit negligent and put the same load and deep seated ELDX into a Peterson case knowing that these cases show higher pressure than the lapua have with the same charge and bullet.

You will see I chickened out after 3 rounds but you get the gist of what the results were..

2590fps, 2562fps, 2587fps

Notice the additional drop in velocity as my fancy match brass takes the hit instead of the projectile..








A this point my barrel and suppressor were heating up and it was starting to rain, I pressed on and sent 5 rounds of the same 2209 load in lapua brass only this time pull out to mag length and 15 thou off my new lands..

2641fps, 2649fps, 2636fps, 2652fps, 2544fps,



Now here's where it gets interesting, no sticky bolt lift and only very minor ejector ring scuffs that are hard to see in these pics but it circles the 6 on the stamping. But take a look at the primers.. this is the flattest I've seen a BR-4 primer, it is flat to the point where it is no longer round and material has flowed to the edges to form a mushroom like burr that you can catch a fingernail on when dragged over it. The firing pin cratering is also bad with sharp jagged edges. All 5 of these primers are in worse shape than the last 3 Peterson ones yet the brass only shows very minor wiping.





Id love to hear some others on this one. Why is IMR AR2209 aka H4350 behaving so badly in my rifle yet it is the go to powder for 90% of other 6.5 Creedmoor shooters?

The only thing Im yet to rule out is a bad batch of powder. Its only a couple of years old and smells as it should but I guess I cant rule that out unless I try another batch.

A look back at have documented in my initial range testing notes says this:

143gr ELDX with 41.5gr of 2209 AV of 2726fps with 49fps ES and a group of .832" ctc "too hot, heavy bolt lift"

139gr Scenars with 41.5gr of 2209 AV of 2734fps with 11fps ES and a group of .791" ctc "light pressure signs"

130gr Sierra TMK with 42gr of 2209 AV of 2766fps with 8fps ES and a group of .710" ctc "light pressure signs"

See if someone here has a bit of "fresh" powder they can sell/donate ,to eliminate the powder-condition variable...

Wingman. I would say almost certainly you have a bad batch of AR2209. The two 500g lots I've used up were ME M5675 and ME M5583 plus 1lb H4350. None gave any excessive pressure even up to 45gr with the 143 ELD-X and 46gr with the 129 SST.

With 44.6gr AR2209 and the 140gr ELD-M I got the follow this morning:

2772fps
2771fps
2767fps

ES 4.87
SD 2.67

Only fired the 3 shots as the range is only 2 minutes drive from my place and has good solid concrete benches. Might have to contact Kiwi Greg about a Bartlein as I love shooting the Creedmoor because of it's accuracy and the barrel won't last too long.

I've found the 6.5 Creedmoor the easiest cartridge next to the 6 PPC I've ever developed loads for. Been reloading since 1974 and precision loading since 1988 when I bought a unused Remington .222 benchrest rifle with a Hart barrel and Jones Custom Products hand dies etc.

Slightly off topic boys but a friend has a creedmore and I suggested that the 125grn Partitions would be a very good hunting bullet balance to the creed. Good high velocity and extended hydrostatic shock range instead of the over-penetration and short hydrostatic shock range with the heavy for cal projectiles commonly being used.

Any thoughts ???
P.S this is a terrific forum and I appreciate the effort that has gone into these postings

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Slightly off topic boys but a friend has a creedmore and I suggested that the 125grn Partitions would be a very good hunting bullet balance to the creed. Good high velocity and extended hydrostatic shock range instead of the over-penetration and short hydrostatic shock range with the heavy for cal projectiles commonly being used.

Any thoughts ???
P.S this is a terrific forum and I appreciate the effort that has gone into these postings

Don't see why they wouldn't be good killers. However, some 6.5 CM's seem to shoot more accurately with the heavier bullets and they also generally have the advantage of a higher BC for long range shooting as well if someone is into that.

Yup @10-Ring, its the extended range accuracy that I like. The 143gr ELD-X deals with wind much better than my 150-165gr .308s, and I’m better at shooting them as the recoil is more manageable when shooting in tricky positions. After about 400m the 143gr 6.5 hits harder than the .308 and at 600m there’s no contest.

Same as Flyblown, love those 143 ELD-X for their flat trajectory. This fat fallow was shot on a very steep downhill slope at 296 yards. Bullet entered just below the right eye and exited as in the pic.

This thread has been an interesting read. I've certainly found that AR2209 and 140gr ELD-M's in my Howa
chassis rifle with 24" barrel has been the easiest load workup in memory. I'm using 41.5gr @ OAL of 71.5mm
(2.815) in Lapua SR brass. 2680fps, tiny groups and no pressure.
Yes, I could load hotter, but the plates or the game won't pick the difference.