Thread: 6.5 Creedmoor load development

Since when do bergers shoot best closest to the lands? I thought you were supposed to check them at 20 thou intervals right back to 120 thou jump or so?
In all honesty I thought they were a projectile knows to not mind abit of jump


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I dont have a lot of trigger time with Bergers, I ran them in my .338 Whisper as 300gr subs but that about the extent of my experience with this brand. The info I got was general online consensus and from a friend who shoots them (well).
Lets hope you thought right.. Ill give them another crack tomorrow with a bit of jump.

QUOTE=Smiddy;743466]....In all honesty I thought they were a projectile knows to not mind abit of jump [/QUOTE]

On the their website they give a lot of information about their various bullet designs. This is some of their info on the VLD. VLD: Making it Shoot | Berger Bullets

I loaded the last three and seated them back another 50 thou so 60 thou jump to lands which cycle through the mag perfectly.
Take it for what it is (3 round group) but they didnt shoot any worse and if I had to put money on a guess of what two more rounds would have done Id say they were better loaded this way.



The first shot was the far left and the following two walked to center. I didnt put a cold bore shot through but also haven't cleaned it since yesterday's groups so that may account for the 1st shot running wide.
Im sure I could work a load for these should I ever want to use them but after reading about inconsistent hunting results with either explosive results or penciling right through with no terminal damage at the same range and on the same game Im not sure if Id trust them. Even reading that Berger link above doesnt install a lot of confidence in me... they basically had reservations about marketing them as a hunting bullet from the start. While the jacket is a little thicker than some target bullets there is no thicker base or tip to control expansion more consistently.
The tiny hollow point suggests to me this is the reason for pass throughs with little damage, unless it contacts bone at longer range shots Id be surprised if it opens up much at all.

Love to hear reports from guys running these bullets on game. What are your experiences with them?

My powder is just stored in a damp shed , so that did not HELP it , still OK

Thank you so much for the great write up.... I really appreciated it... it will get read again.... and again.

I have a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 26" barrel and are just getting into reloading .. accuracy out to about 600m is my goal... limited by my eye sight more than anything else.

I had been looking where to start with powders and projectiles... I wish to try the 147 gn ELDs and after reading your comment..... "if your barrel is longer and you want to shoot the 140 + gr pills I'd go to RL26. You will get scorching velocities and much lower pressures." I think I know which powder I will use first up.

Cheers

Round two of my 6.5 Creedmoor journey.
I re-chambered a 20" long 1-8" twist light profile Trueflite Ultra Match barrel in creed for my Desert Tech SRS A1 rifle the was previously chambered in .260Rem by the late great Robbie Tiffen that will be my light weight walk about rig.
I have another heavy fluted 26" Lothar Walther barrel in .260Rem for the Desert tech that I never shoot so really dont see me using two.


I have mostly been using the 6.5x47 Lapua barrel for hunting but it is a heavy 24" long axle of a barrel with another 1.3kg of DMRII tactical scope and mount which really excels in its long range prone role.
I really went back in forward over whether to just chamber this barrel in 6.5x47 Lapua too and use the same loads but I still had a lot of Creedmoor Lapua brass and dies etc so figured I may as well make another Creedmoor instead.



I ordered a Dave Kiff premium CIP chamber reamer which eventually arrived and did the job nicely. The std CIP freebore on this reamer is quite a lot shorter than the custom one I finished up with in the Remington barrel but I will see how it goes before any further throat mods.





RL16 was my powder of choice for this cal with the shorter barrel and that has not changed, I will continue to use it in this barrel but backed off a full grain to check pressure limitations of this barrel before carrying on where I left off. Pressure signs and chrono numbers were all in the same ball park as my last barrel so I had a good load worked out before I even put them to paper.

Being this will be my shorter range walkabout rig I decided not to test any lighter 123gr bullets and will run 130 to 147gr bullets instead.
I have quite a few match bullet offerings in that weight range but also will sway toward a more hunting purposed bullet if they shoot ok.




The line up I have chosen to test first is as follows:

130gr Hornady ELDM
130gr Sierra Tipped Match King (my go to in the Remington and also my new 6.5x47)
143gr Hornady ELDX
130gr Berger VLD Hunter
136gr Lapua Scenar L (more of a control bullet as this barrel shot them the best when it was a .260Rem at 1/4 MOA)

All loads tested here are Lapua small primer brass with CCI BR-4 primers, RL16 powder and bullets seated 5 to 10 thou off the lands.

I shot a few of each over the chrono to find the pressure range for each bullet that I wanted to operate within which were all fairly predictable and no eventful apart from the 130gr VLDH and the 130gr ELDM which were quite low in velocity due to the shorter bearing surfaces and higher case volume resulting from the bullets seated long to lands.

This pic shows the 130gr bullets with the variation in bearing surfaces:



This is the 130gr VLDH next to the 143gr ELDX





The selected loads for each were selected with the intention of preserving brass life so nothing to hot. I get very mild primer cratering but not stiff bolt lift or any brass swiping/ejector rings.





The chrono results of these first loads were as follows: (average of 3 shots)

136gr Lapua Scenar L COAL of 72mm with 42.5gr of RL16 (the exact same load I loaded for the .260Rem that gave 2700fps) gave 2878fps.
130gr Sierra TMK COAL of 73mm with 43.5 of RL16 gave 2891fps (I ran 44gr at 2910fps with the longer free bore Remington)
143gr Hornady ELDX COAL of 73mm with 42.0 of RL16 gave 2891fps
130gr Berger VLD hunter COAL of 73.5 with 43.0 of RL16 gave 2743fps which was very slow so I went with 44gr which gave 2772fps.
130gr Hornady ELDX COAL of 73mm with 43.0 of RL16 gave 2701fps which was also very slow so I bumped it up to 44gr which gave 2756fps.

The 130gr TMK seems to cope with a higher charge getting higher velocities than the other 130gr bullets which were starting to show the faintest of ejector kisses with the 44gr load so I have called that my max load.


To the 100 meter range...

I did not subtract my bullet diameter....
H4350 39.4gn
Lapua SRP Brass
CCI SMPP
Hornady 140 ELDM
Tikka T3 CTR
KRG Bravo Chassis
Schmidt and Bender PMII H59
Cadex Brake
.246@100m



120gn



Rifle

a Couple vides in slo mo to show brake efficacy.

So.. as far as the Hornady bullets. 120's are good, as are the 130's up to 143.... but the 147's will not stabilize no matter what load I try.

My STAG10 DMR Build will have an IBI Barrel, and hopefully the twist rate change will stabilize the 147's.

Pics to follow when I get it sussed out.

Originally Posted by Wingman

Round two of my 6.5 Creedmoor journey.
I re-chambered a 20" long 1-8" twist light profile Trueflite Ultra Match barrel in creed for my Desert Tech SRS A1 rifle the was previously chambered in .260Rem by the late great Robbie Tiffen that will be my light weight walk about rig.
I have another heavy fluted 26" Lothar Walther barrel in .260Rem for the Desert tech that I never shoot so really dont see me using two.


I have mostly been using the 6.5x47 Lapua barrel for hunting but it is a heavy 24" long axle of a barrel with another 1.3kg of DMRII tactical scope and mount which really excels in its long range prone role.
I really went back in forward over whether to just chamber this barrel in 6.5x47 Lapua too and use the same loads but I still had a lot of Creedmoor Lapua brass and dies etc so figured I may as well make another Creedmoor instead.



I ordered a Dave Kiff premium CIP chamber reamer which eventually arrived and did the job nicely. The std CIP freebore on this reamer is quite a lot shorter than the custom one I finished up with in the Remington barrel but I will see how it goes before any further throat mods.





RL16 was my powder of choice for this cal with the shorter barrel and that has not changed, I will continue to use it in this barrel but backed off a full grain to check pressure limitations of this barrel before carrying on where I left off. Pressure signs and chrono numbers were all in the same ball park as my last barrel so I had a good load worked out before I even put them to paper.

Being this will be my shorter range walkabout rig I decided not to test any lighter 123gr bullets and will run 130 to 147gr bullets instead.
I have quite a few match bullet offerings in that weight range but also will sway toward a more hunting purposed bullet if they shoot ok.




The line up I have chosen to test first is as follows:

130gr Hornady ELDM
130gr Sierra Tipped Match King (my go to in the Remington and also my new 6.5x47)
143gr Hornady ELDX
130gr Berger VLD Hunter
136gr Lapua Scenar L (more of a control bullet as this barrel shot them the best when it was a .260Rem at 1/4 MOA)

All loads tested here are Lapua small primer brass with CCI BR-4 primers, RL16 powder and bullets seated 5 to 10 thou off the lands.

I shot a few of each over the chrono to find the pressure range for each bullet that I wanted to operate within which were all fairly predictable and no eventful apart from the 130gr VLDH and the 130gr ELDM which were quite low in velocity due to the shorter bearing surfaces and higher case volume resulting from the bullets seated long to lands.

This pic shows the 130gr bullets with the variation in bearing surfaces:



This is the 130gr VLDH next to the 143gr ELDX





The selected loads for each were selected with the intention of preserving brass life so nothing to hot. I get very mild primer cratering but not stiff bolt lift or any brass swiping/ejector rings.





The chrono results of these first loads were as follows: (average of 3 shots)

136gr Lapua Scenar L COAL of 72mm with 42.5gr of RL16 (the exact same load I loaded for the .260Rem that gave 2700fps) gave 2878fps.
130gr Sierra TMK COAL of 73mm with 43.5 of RL16 gave 2891fps (I ran 44gr at 2910fps with the longer free bore Remington)
143gr Hornady ELDX COAL of 73mm with 42.0 of RL16 gave 2891fps
130gr Berger VLD hunter COAL of 73.5 with 43.0 of RL16 gave 2743fps which was very slow so I went with 44gr which gave 2772fps.
130gr Hornady ELDX COAL of 73mm with 43.0 of RL16 gave 2701fps which was also very slow so I bumped it up to 44gr which gave 2756fps.

The 130gr TMK seems to cope with a higher charge getting higher velocities than the other 130gr bullets which were starting to show the faintest of ejector kisses with the 44gr load so I have called that my max load.


To the 100 meter range...

Awesome speeds there

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So 5 rounds of each loaded I did the 100 meter paper work..

https://youtu.be/kBBK9-2n4UQ




No clear over achievers amongst them except maybe the 143gr ELDX which may need further group testing and I messed one shot up. The TMKs also excel for their velocity and proven hunting suitability but Id say all of these bullets could be fine tuned to shoot tiny bug holes.

I must get to the range and shoot my 6.5 CM more seeing as it's only two minutes from my place. Last time I was getting 2,910fps average with 44.3gr of R16 with the Sierra 130gr Camechanger. Long throat and mag length so bullets are seated well out in my 24" barrel Tikka TSx Lite; good accuracy. For deer hunting though I'll stick with the 143 ELD-X with AR2209 (exact same powder as H4350).

Thanks for the PM Marc, I made a typo in my write up, looking back in my range book the velocity for the 143gr is 2801 av not 2891fps

That's still great performance and efficiency at 2801 fps! I only wish my rifle spat those ELD-X out that fast. It does group them beautifully though so I'm not complaining

Thanks for the in-depth write-up @Wingman. This thread is a great resource.

Maybe a little experiment is in order to find out what my rifle will digest. I didn't see any pressure signs with any of the Re16 loads that I tried.