6.5 creedmoor reloading

Hi all
I have built a tikka t3 bush rifle, it has a 16inch barrel with suppressor.
Shoots a great 1/2 inch group with factory sako ammo. Just had a too much bullet drop from slower speeds.

Trying to create a cartridge load that makes up for lost velocity caused by short barrel.
Have tried a few different things. But nothing that gets a good grouping

So far have 2850fps, but a pretty average group, like 2-3 inches at 100m

Compared to the factory sako ammo that shoots dead on but only 2550fps.

Trying to get velocity up to shoot flatter so there isn’t so much bullet drop out to 300m

Latest load is 100gr barnes projectiles with win748 ball powder. Speed was great but grouping it so good.
Any advice or does anyone have a better load?

Thanks

2209 is the single best power for accuracy, it's temp stable and consistent. But not fast.

Reloader 26 is usually best for speed but has been near impossible to buy in recent years. Hodgdon Superperformance and Winchester 6.5 StaBall are both known to give good velocity but both aren't temp stable and StaBall in particular can be difficult to find a load for.

What grain bullet you using?
I would drop down in bullet weight and just accept the fact short barrels are slower than longer ones. Or ream is out to 6.5-284.

Yup, what Beetroot said.
I run a tikka 6.5CM for silhouette shooting & several of us have come to same conclusion for powder.
Just use 2209.

Greetings,
More data will help. 2,850 fps is too hot for any projectile over 120 grain and plenty hot for those in a 16 inch barrel. Expect a velocity loss of around 150 fps for your barrel. 2,550 fps from the Sako factory sounds reasonable for all except the lighter projectiles. Rather than overloading the rifle you could consider zeroing at a longer range say 150 metres.
GPM.

Find a Projectile in the 123gr - 130gr range that has the characteristics that you want .
Load it with an appropriate powder and find the powder charge that achieves the best accuracy.
Then either use a ballistic calculator or actually shoot at targets in increments out to 300yrds , to know your holds or dial settings.
A 200 yrd zero is a good place to start .
Velocity isn’t everything , but I admit it helps :thumbsup:

PS - I use a 129gr Hornady SST with 2209 powder in my Creedmore , but it has a 20 inch barrel.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings,
More data will help. 2,850 fps is too hot for any projectile over 120 grain and plenty hot for those in a 16 inch barrel. Expect a velocity loss of around 150 fps for your barrel. 2,550 fps from the Sako factory sounds reasonable for all except the lighter projectiles. Rather than overloading the rifle you could consider zeroing at a longer range say 150 metres.
GPM.

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Correction, that should be 200 fps loss for the 16 inch barrel.
GPM.

Reloader 16 works good in short barrels cheers


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Originally Posted by Moose.

Hi all
I have built a tikka t3 bush rifle, it has a 16inch barrel with suppressor.
Shoots a great 1/2 inch group with factory sako ammo. Just had a too much bullet drop from slower speeds.

Trying to create a cartridge load that makes up for lost velocity caused by short barrel.
Have tried a few different things. But nothing that gets a good grouping

So far have 2850fps, but a pretty average group, like 2-3 inches at 100m

Compared to the factory sako ammo that shoots dead on but only 2550fps.

Trying to get velocity up to shoot flatter so there isn’t so much bullet drop out to 300m

Latest load is 100gr barnes projectiles with win748 ball powder. Speed was great but grouping it so good.
Any advice or does anyone have a better load?

Thanks

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You said it was a bush rifle. What sort of bush is open to 300m?

My creedmore is a 18" shooting 143 eldx easily under 1" at 100m doing 2770fps.
Hodgdon Superperformance is a great powder for a lot of calibers.

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yes i have found in the 6.5 caliber every inch makes a big difference compared to a 30 cal.

just trying to get it to shoot a little bit faster and flatter so its accurate in every situation

ive found these barnes 100gr, which is about as light has it gets in the 6.5 creedmoor for hunting.
it definitly made it faster but not a good group. no point going faster if i miss ha.

its going to be just finding the right powder / projectile combo.

yes 2550 is reasonable, it just creates over a 6 inch drop from 100m to 200m which is quite substantial.
would like to get it shooting flatter, closer to 4 inch,
depending on the situation it can be the difference between a hit or miss on a smaller deer.

just trying to see what can be achieved with the right combo.

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

My creedmore is a 18" shooting 143 eldx easily under 1" at 100m doing 2770fps.
Hodgdon Superperformance is a great powder for a lot of calibers.

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oh really? i used the eldx and it did ok, not great. when i got up to around 2750fps the group got too big.
does ok for a large red deer shoulder shot but taking a gamble when trying to headshot with accuracy.

The only way your going to get any noticeable speed back is to run some strong brass, lapua or peterson, a slow burning magnum powder like superformance or reloader 26, and stuff it full of as much of said powder as you can fit in the case (for rl26 anyway) loading it to what will certainly be above book max/saami rated max pressure.

Dont take this the wrong way, but theres no free lunch. The idea that you can cut off a large portion of a barrel and make up for it with handloading staying within the confines of what saami deem as safe pressures is a dream, especially on smaller bore cartridges. Yes you may be able to get a little back but the only way your making a significant enough increase to put yourself back in the realm of where you were, is to use tough brass, exotic hard to find magnum powders, and load it hot.

Your only alternative is to go to a much lighter bullet like you have which sacrifices energy and bc doing so, and as you have found still may not give you the speed you want without the appropriate faster powder.


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so far since i havent been able to beat the grouping of the factory ammo,
i am considering two things
1. either my rifle just really likes the sako 120g powerhead blade projectiles better than any other projectile
2. or this caliber just doesnt like to be run any hotter than a similar factory charge

i am wondering if i should try to pair the same win 748 ball powder with the sako blade projectiles.

hard to keep trial and error when its not cheap to keep shooting away to no improvement its an expensive hobby

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Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD

The only way your going to get any noticeable speed back is to run some strong brass, lapua or peterson, a slow burning magnum powder like superformance or reloader 26, and stuff it full of as much of said powder as you can fit in the case (for rl26 anyway) loading it to what will certainly be above book max/saami rated max pressure.

Dont take this the wrong way, but theres no free lunch. The idea that you can cut off a large portion of a barrel and make up for it with handloading staying within the confines of what saami deem as safe pressures is a dream, especially on smaller bore cartridges. Yes you may be able to get a little back but the only way your making a significant enough increase to put yourself back in the realm of where you were, is to use tough brass, exotic hard to find magnum powders, and load it hot.

Your only alternative is to go to a much lighter bullet like you have which sacrifices energy and bc doing so, and as you have found still may not give you the speed you want without the appropriate faster powder.


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yes i agree, thanks for the input
it is what i am coming to realise as i keep trying different combos and always circle back to factory ammo as the best. I have already tried more reliable powder with as much as i can fit, compressed loads,
but i found that this caliber likes to be seated deeper, so it throws that idea out a bit.

definitely getting closer to just having to accept that what i have is the best i am going to get with a 16 inch barrel, otherwise i need to put a 22 inch barrel back on.

but thats why i am reaching out to others. reloading is all about seeing what a rifle can really do.

Well you already have one thing covered your rifle clearly likes the blade bullets so thats where i would start. Its already proven it can shoot them accurately, you just want them to go faster. After having a look at some load data and trying some stuff in GRT it looks like superformance would be a good bet, around 2750fps looks achievable without getting too silly with pressure.


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Get the 120 blade load it the same length as the factory sako and you’ll probably be right to pick up more speed personally I think you shouldn’t be using a mono that slow 120BT could be a good option

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Originally Posted by Moose.

oh really? i used the eldx and it did ok, not great. when i got up to around 2750fps the group got too big.
does ok for a large red deer shoulder shot but taking a gamble when trying to headshot with accuracy.

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Mine will hit a 4" gong at 500M if I'm doing my bit

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Dich the 748 get a slow burning powder I've found RL 26 or Hodgdon Superperformance the best for speed.
For a barrel that short I would try as Kelton sad Nosler 120BT or 129 ABLR

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I'm running 120gr Nosler BT with RL16 in an 18" barrel. They're at about 2820fps and make a mess on everything I've shot. Good penetration but absolutely wreck the meat. Never had an animal move more than a few steps if whacked correctly, which is good.

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Why do you need more energy? Have animals been getting away? As far as a flatter trajectory, all bullets drop. Another 100-150 feet per second may not shoot much flatter, you may need a lighter bullet to try and flatten it out. As has already been said, there’s no free lunch, the price of a short barrel is velocity loss. The higher the case to bore ratio the bigger the loss.

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

My creedmore is a 18" shooting 143 eldx easily under 1" at 100m doing 2770fps.
Hodgdon Superperformance is a great powder for a lot of calibers.

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Thats impressive performance. In my Tikka T3x with a 20" barrel a book max charge of Superformance gives me 2675. A 100fps less with a 2" longer barrel!!

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Thats impressive performance. In my Tikka T3x with a 20" barrel a book max charge of Superformance gives me 2675. A 100fps less with a 2" longer barrel!!

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I'm showing no pressure but I use Lapua SR brass in a 85 Sako at mag length. My old Tikka .260 18" is doing 2811 same powder and pill.
Maybe 1 grn over book max.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moose.

Hi all
I have built a tikka t3 bush rifle, it has a 16inch barrel with suppressor.
Shoots a great 1/2 inch group with factory sako ammo. Just had a too much bullet drop from slower speeds.

Trying to create a cartridge load that makes up for lost velocity caused by short barrel.
Have tried a few different things. But nothing that gets a good grouping

So far have 2850fps, but a pretty average group, like 2-3 inches at 100m

Compared to the factory sako ammo that shoots dead on but only 2550fps.

Trying to get velocity up to shoot flatter so there isn’t so much bullet drop out to 300m

Latest load is 100gr barnes projectiles with win748 ball powder. Speed was great but grouping it so good.
Any advice or does anyone have a better load?

Thanks

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One question why use barns they need speed to proform, I would use a standard cup and core 129 sp or 120 Nosler BT

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I'd probably give up on the Barnes bullet, they are pretty expensive and probably not the easiest to tune compared to something like the Nosler 100gr BT.
If you don't have the money/time to tinker with different loads then I think you'd be best to decide what's combination of speed, accuracy, and easy of tunning you want.

For as easy as possible I'd say buy some Sako projectiles, seat them the same depth as the factory ammo, and use ADI 2209.
Will probably be slower than you'd like though.

If you want more speed try a different powder that's been mentioned, RL16, RL26, or Superformance with ADI 2209.
Or try a different projectile with ADI 2209, something like the 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip should be easier to tune than the Barnes TSX.

Or if you want as much speed as practical try a different powder and different 100gr bullet.

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Originally Posted by Mathias

I'm running 120gr Nosler BT with RL16 in an 18" barrel. They're at about 2820fps and make a mess on everything I've shot. Good penetration but absolutely wreck the meat. Never had an animal move more than a few steps if whacked correctly, which is good.

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How much RL16 are you running for that?
I am considering playing the with the 120BT in my creedmoor and use RL 16 at the moment with a 140 sst

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Originally Posted by Moose.

yes i have found in the 6.5 caliber every inch makes a big difference compared to a 30 cal.

just trying to get it to shoot a little bit faster and flatter so its accurate in every situation

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Faster and flatter is NOT more accurate. It's faster and flatter....group size dictates accuracy.slower means more drop....end of story.if load is accurate and groups well a bit of extra drop won't matter as you will be/ should be range finding and using drop chart and or dialling if shooting out to range where the extra drop matters.

I dont know a thing about the topic but 25/08 IMP seems to wring the most out of the calibers he has so I would follow his path and try Hodgdon Superperformance

Attachment 266909

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Originally Posted by Pommy

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What's this Gordon's tool thing? If I'm reading it correctly it's a bit of an eye-opener and worrying.
My loads are showing no pressure signs that you normally get.

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It's the free alternative to QuickLoad. It's very useful for simulating loads to attempt to quantify things such as pressure. Case heads and primers don't really tell you what's going on.

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

One question why use barns they need speed to proform, I would use a standard cup and core 129 sp or 120 Nosler BT

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just because barnes was the only lighter 100gr i have come across for hunting bullet., otherwise i would have stick with Sako Blade projectile.

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Originally Posted by Kelton

Get the 120 blade load it the same length as the factory sako and you’ll probably be right to pick up more speed personally I think you shouldn’t be using a mono that slow 120BT could be a good option

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yes i think i should try this, the factory load is seated quite deep so needed a faster burning powder to fit enough in the case. using a slower powder like 2209 or 760 i couldn't seat the projectile deep enough for the amount of powder

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Mine will hit a 4" gong at 500M if I'm doing my bit

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thats insane, we are getting very different results, wouldnt mind putting a few of your ammo through my rifle to see what it does.

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Dich the 748 get a slow burning powder I've found RL 26 or Hodgdon Superperformance the best for speed.
For a barrel that short I would try as Kelton sad Nosler 120BT or 129 ABLR

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only issue i found was a slower burning powder needs MORE powder and cant fit it in the case

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Faster and flatter is NOT more accurate. It's faster and flatter....group size dictates accuracy.slower means more drop....end of story.if load is accurate and groups well a bit of extra drop won't matter as you will be/ should be range finding and using drop chart and or dialling if shooting out to range where the extra drop matters.

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yes you are dead right, thats what i did on my last hunt, but wouldnt it be nice to have accurate and flatter

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Originally Posted by Moose.

only issue i found was a slower burning powder needs MORE powder and cant fit it in the case

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Correct, the trick is to find the slowest burning powder that you can fit enough of in the case. Too slow, you wont get enough in to reach peak velocity/pressure, Too fast and you will reach peak pressure with room still to go in the case, and often fall short of target speed.

Without a doubt, out of all the powders currently available, superformance will give you the best velocity with the 120gr blade bullets.

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Originally Posted by Moose.

only issue i found was a slower burning powder needs MORE powder and cant fit it in the case

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That's where superproformance comes in as it's a ball powder and fills the case nicely

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Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD

Correct, the trick is to find the slowest burning powder that you can fit enough of in the case. Too slow, you wont get enough in to reach peak velocity/pressure, Too fast and you will reach peak pressure with room still to go in the case, and often fall short of target speed.

Without a doubt, out of all the powders currently available, superformance will give you the best velocity with the 120gr blade bullets.

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ok thanks maybe ill give it a try, so far i tried hornady cx 120gr with win760 and I had a compressed load with seating depth way too far out.

correct me if i am wrong but superformance is a slower burning powder than 760, so wouldnt i have the problem of needing too much powder with not enough space,
appreciate everyones input, im only a beginer reloader.