6.5CM bullet performance

I have a Sauer 100 which is I love and shoots tight groups with the right projectiles bit it seems to be quite fussy. I love the performance of the 129gn Hornady SST projectiles and use them in my 6.5CM Tikka, they shoot well in this rifle but the Sauer does not seem to like them. I bought some 130 Sierra TGK to try and the Sauer does like these. 43gn of 2209 give me 2780fps and sub MOA 3 shot groups.
BUT the info I have read about the performance of these bullets says that they have a relatively thick jacket and a hard core, consequently they tend to be a tough bullet by say comparison to the SST. A lot of what I hunt are Fallow deer so I am not sure how such a tough projectile will work in this case.
The SST seemed to offer the best of both worlds, a fast opening tip section with a base section which tended to hold together and penetrate.
Also to clarify my choices. I am not a big fan of the 143 ELDX which might seem the obvious choice, I feel that the 130gn or thereabouts weight gives better overall performance out to practical hunting ranges (for me that's about 500m max)
So after going for a hunt last week on the fallow and shooting 6 animals with the 130gn Sierra's they seemed to work Ok, I even recovered a projectile from an offside shoulder. Image attached.
I am curious as to what other people have found using the 130gn TGK. I am also mindful of the fact that bullet choice can often be a case of whats available vs what you actually want so another option would be good (something in that 130gn range)

Attachment 245453

So can I ask why are you not a fan of the ELDX I use them in my 19" Creedmoor and load them in a few .260 as well never had an issue up close our out to the farthest I've shot just over 600.

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projectile placement is just as important.....way back in 1900 and nuts n bolts using fmj in 303 was still quite common..hit big billy goat or even small nanny through both shoulders was much more effective than slipped in through ribs.
if your worried your projectile may be a little too hard..give it something to work on..smash some bone.
workmate uses the whitetail in same and has large run of single round kills..granted all are under 200 yards...but he sure doesnt overthink it..just point ,shoot,then drive truck over and pick up (he shot red hind with me the other week and moaned it was too far away as we had to drag it 200 yards to truck lol) Im sure you will do fine with what you have got,we all seem to overthink this way too much these days.

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

So can I ask why are you not a fan of the ELDX I use them in my 19" Creedmoor and load them in a few .260 as well never had an issue up close our out to the farthest I've shot just over 600.

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Same here, ive lost count of how many deer i have shot with the 143 ELDX, its a great killer up close and out far. Found them really easy to get them to shoot in all the rifles i have used them in too.

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Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD

Same here, ive lost count of how many deer i have shot with the 143 ELDX, its a great killer up close and out far. Found them really easy to get them to shoot in all the rifles i have used them in too.

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Probably no real issue with the terminal performance of the 143ELDX but I see no advantage either.
143gn ELDX. 41gn 2209 2575fps. 200m zero is 64mm high at 100m. 300m 26.6cm low. 2157 energy. 500m 151cm low. 1894 energy.
130gn SGK 43gn 2209 2780fps. 200 zero is 54mm high at 100. 300m 23.7cm low. 2228 energy. 500m 138.7cm low 1898 energy.

That 41gns of 2209 behind the 143ELDX did not produce a very flash group in the Sauer but to be fair that was only 1 x 3 shot group. It seemed to group ok with 40gns of 2209 but I was not really happy with the low velocity, 2540fps from memory. I have been playing around with Superformance and managed 2714fps with 45gns in my Bergara HMR 6.5CM so maybe I will try that load in the Sauer.

Im funning the factory Hornady 143eldx in my and they are falling out of the barrel 2530fps but dam they hit like a brick

400y is 8.2moa 100y zero

Try some Berger’s 👌 or the 147 eld-m

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Probably no real issue with the terminal performance of the 143ELDX but I see no advantage either.
143gn ELDX. 41gn 2209 2575fps. 200m zero is 64mm high at 100m. 300m 26.6cm low. 2157 energy. 500m 151cm low. 1894 energy.
130gn SGK 43gn 2209 2780fps. 200 zero is 54mm high at 100. 300m 23.7cm low. 2228 energy. 500m 138.7cm low 1898 energy.

That 41gns of 2209 behind the 143ELDX did not produce a very flash group in the Sauer but to be fair that was only 1 x 3 shot group. It seemed to group ok with 40gns of 2209 but I was not really happy with the low velocity, 2540fps from memory. I have been playing around with Superformance and managed 2714fps with 45gns in my Bergara HMR 6.5CM so maybe I will try that load in the Sauer.

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Give Hodgdon superprofrmance a good good you should be able to load around 46-47 grn behind the 143 ELDX

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In the age of the internet, most seem to overthink things these days.
The deer are no more difficult to put down

A cheap as chips 129g Hornady interlock, trickling along at 2630fps muzzle velocity out of a Kimber 260 20" barrel.
Close range bush hunting.

Entry wound on Jap Hind
Attachment 245461

Exit wound
Attachment 245462

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

Give Hodgdon superprofrmance a good good you should be able to load around 46-47 grn behind the 143 ELDX

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I ran a ladder on the 143ELDX with superformance in My Bergara 6.5CM HMR. Starline brass and federal 210 small rifle primers. I went from 44gn to 47gn. 45 seemed to be the sweetspot after that I was getting significant primer cratering and the groups started to open up. But to be fair this was in the Bregara and not the Sauer, however the Sauer seems to have quite tight chamber and a shorter throat so I doubt I could comfortably push them harder than I already have.

Running pretty much the exact same load with the 130gr game changers in my 22inch Bergara b14 2780fps.Had great results with the this projectile. Works on Tahr, Reds, Chamois and fallow to be fair it made a big mess of the fallow at 200yards.

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I ran the 129 interlock was bloody good I use the Sierra in .308 and so far it’s being flawless I love it

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Originally Posted by Bergara_bangstick

Running pretty much the exact same load with the 130gr game changers in my 22inch Bergara b14 2780fps.Had great results with the this projectile. Works on Tahr, Reds, Chamois and fallow to be fair it made a big mess of the fallow at 200yards.

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Thanks for that. I don't think the Sierra Gamechangers are the hard bullet that some writeups (and Sierra) say they are.

Interesting read here fellas. @zeropak the 130 TGK were my original choice, and then I was distracted by another projectile, so it’s good to hear your feedback on the bullet.
I got distracted by the Berger 135gr classic hunters and have just finished up a load for them with Staball 6.5 at 2780fps.
I’ll keep you posted with pics in a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by JohnQT

Interesting read here fellas. @zeropak the 130 TGK were my original choice, and then I was distracted by another projectile, so it’s good to hear your feedback on the bullet.
I got distracted by the Berger 135gr classic hunters and have just finished up a load for them with Staball 6.5 at 2780fps.
I’ll keep you posted with pics in a couple of weeks.

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Ok never tried the Bergers so I will be interested in how they go, What your load with the Staball? Berger says they are quite a frangible bullet which will penetrate 2 to 3" and then give massive expansion. Based on the performance I got from my last outing with the Sierra TGK I will stick with it for a couple of trips and see how it goes. I also worked up a load of 47gns of superformance in my Tikka 6.5CM which is shooting good groups and doing 2755fps out of a 20" barrel with no pressure signs. The Tikka just seems to be slower than my Sauer and Bergara maybe its the long throat in the Tikka. With the Sierra TGK 74.2mm OALL is on the lands, I load to 72.4 OALL.

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Probably no real issue with the terminal performance of the 143ELDX but I see no advantage either.
143gn ELDX. 41gn 2209 2575fps. 200m zero is 64mm high at 100m. 300m 26.6cm low. 2157 energy. 500m 151cm low. 1894 energy.
130gn SGK 43gn 2209 2780fps. 200 zero is 54mm high at 100. 300m 23.7cm low. 2228 energy. 500m 138.7cm low 1898 energy.

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Just to draw out the significance of this :
There is a big difference between MV of 2575 and 2780.
2500’s might be OK for target but is really sub par for hunting, where some flatness of shooting is helpful.
The TV is getting down where bullets dont open up.
At 2540 like one has mentioned you need to use a rangefinder and holdover on anything past 100m.
If you stoke up a Grendel it can do as well as that…

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Originally Posted by Bagheera

Just to draw out the significance of this :
There is a big difference between MV of 2575 and 2780.
2500’s might be OK for target but is really sub par for hunting, where some flatness of shooting is helpful.
The TV is getting down where bullets dont open up.
At 2540 like one has mentioned you need to use a rangefinder and holdover on anything past 100m.
If you stoke up a Grendel it can do as well as that…

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That's pretty much my point. The 41gn 2209 is 1 grain under book max for the 143 ELDX and the 43gn of 2209 with the 130gn is book max using the hornady reloading app and using the data for H4350 which is ADI2209. Both projectiles might carry a similar energy to the 500m mark but the flat shooting advantage od the 130gn makes it a clear choice. I know some will claim they can get higher velocities than mentioned here but I think there will always be a velocity advantage to the 130gn vs the 143gn Projectile, there has to be.

@zeropak I chose the 130 tgk for the same reason. I'm running 42.5gr of h4350 and getting good grouping. I'm yet to run them over the crony to check velcitiy but when I ran the numbers the velocity/energy retention down range along with the drop numbers is why I chose them. My howa groups well with them. Still new to hunting so yet to get one on an animal but everything says they'll do the trick

Has anyone tried the 123gn SST?
Looking to load it up for my 6.5 grendel

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Originally Posted by Grantn

Has anyone tried the 123gn SST?
Looking to load it up for my 6.5 grendel

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I have shot a fair number of deer with the 129SST. They are good performers. The front section seems to open quite quickly and cause a decent wound channel. The rear section holds together, I have retrieved a few projectiles from the animal off side which are good mushroom, core and jacket still together. I expect the 123gn with the lower grendel velocities would be similar.

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Originally Posted by Grantn

Has anyone tried the 123gn SST?
Looking to load it up for my 6.5 grendel

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Yep, I used them in my Grendel on deer & goats. Excellent performer, as zeropak mentions.

I have had impressive results with the 143gn Norma Bondstrike in my 6.5PRC. The projectiles are quite expensive.
I thought the bonded bullet might be too tough hut it was quite the opposite.
Impact velocity about 2300 fps. Dropped on the spot.
Attachment 246080

Anybody else running 120gr Nosler BT's in their Creedmoor? I've shot a few deer, a chamois & a few goats and had good results. They seem to make a decent wound channel and no pass through on deer, usually under the skin on off side.

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Originally Posted by Mathias

Anybody else running 120gr Nosler BT's in their Creedmoor? I've shot a few deer, a chamois & a few goats and had good results. They seem to make a decent wound channel and no pass through on deer, usually under the skin on off side.

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What kind of distances have you been shooting them?

^ I ask because I want to understand the rough velocity range that they performed in

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Originally Posted by Grantn

What kind of distances have you been shooting them?

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Only to about 250m max at this stage.

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Originally Posted by Mathias

Anybody else running 120gr Nosler BT's in their Creedmoor? I've shot a few deer, a chamois & a few goats and had good results. They seem to make a decent wound channel and no pass through on deer, usually under the skin on off side.

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I use the 120 BTs in my .260 and Swede. I have found they penetrate well and often exit at close to medium ranges unless you hit major bones, (ranges up to 200m). Observations based on fallow deer that are my main game animal.
Both of these deer were the same shot, behind the leg, through the heart at 80 meters. Bullet exited the second animal. In the fog I didn’t see the second one after waiting for some others to move off!
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d13acc44e3.jpg


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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

projectile placement is just as important.....way back in 1900 and nuts n bolts using fmj in 303 was still quite common..hit big billy goat or even small nanny through both shoulders was much more effective than slipped in through ribs.
if your worried your projectile may be a little too hard..give it something to work on..smash some bone.
workmate uses the whitetail in same and has large run of single round kills..granted all are under 200 yards...but he sure doesnt overthink it..just point ,shoot,then drive truck over and pick up (he shot red hind with me the other week and moaned it was too far away as we had to drag it 200 yards to truck lol) Im sure you will do fine with what you have got,we all seem to overthink this way too much these days.

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Yep, placement is still the deciding factor.
I took my old man out for a hunt when he was visiting from Oz over christmas, 6.5 creedmoor bergara singleshot with 143 ELD-X up the spout. Found him a red spiker tucked up asleep, quartering towards us uphill but head facing downhill and away from us at 150m, neck shot was taken (I personally would have still tried for lungs and heart). Perfect bang flop, only for the deer to stand up and trot to the bush edge when we had walked 100m closer. Almost lost the animal but he got it with a followup (more lessons learnt, he didnt put a second up the spout ready like I told him to) Turns out the first shot went in through the neck and out through the opposite jaw without expanding and missing absolutely everything arterial. Completely unexpected result, caused the old man to have a lack of faith in the projectile and sent him on a big rabbit hole of research trying to find the right projectile to reload with based on his experience and knowledge of hunting smaller game 30 years ago, looking up all kinds of Nosler this and that.

Later on with a bit of a google up to get my facts right I tried to school him on ideal shot placement for deer and the virtues of the hilar and shoulder shot, frangible match bullets instead of stouter hunting bullets (not that I think the ELD-X was really at fault here) but he didn't really want a bar of it. I've given up trying to tell him that shooting deer is not like shooting wild dogs in outback Australia, you can't just neck shoot them and expect the hydrostatic shock to do the rest. He's got a real hangup on shooting dogs through the shoulder and having them run hundreds of metres, up to 1k even and often surviving.

Bit of a thread hijack, sorry lads.

so reading that...I would think he had been using a really fragile explody projectile all those years ago.... we have all heard tales of bullets exploding on outside of shoulder...personally Ive only seen it once and entirely my fault,shouldnt have been using that load on that animal a 110grn hp varmit in .270w on fallow yearling.still have the skin here and remember it like yesterday.hit fair in shoulder,animal dropped and screamed (still haunts me ,only time ever heard deer do it) reloaded and put 130grn norma through same place,instant lights out. I know it went through same hole as there is no other hole in skin.
that same 110 was dynamite on wallabies.....still is,just dont try it on anything bigger.lesson learnt.
wasnt fault of bullet...was wrong tool for the job.

@zeropak just an update on this. I haven't managed to run the 135Gr Bergers just yet - hopefully next weekend in fallow territory.
However, this weekend I ran some 142gr ABLR doing 2760fps on some reds. Took two hinds, one at 263meters, the other about 270meters. Shot both through the shoulder and they both dropped dead within 3-4 seconds. They left a tennis ball sized hole for an exit wound in the off shoulder and tuned the inside to jelly meat. Keen to see how the Bergers compare, but thought you may be interested in these projectiles too. Obviously not going quite as fast as I'd like, but for a 0.4moa 3 shot group for the first ever load with them, I'm pretty happy!
Attachment 246164

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Originally Posted by JohnQT

@zeropak just an update on this. I haven't managed to run the 135Gr Bergers just yet - hopefully next weekend in fallow territory.
However, this weekend I ran some 142gr ABLR doing 2760fps on some reds. Took two hinds, one at 263meters, the other about 270meters. Shot both through the shoulder and they both dropped dead within 3-4 seconds. They left a tennis ball sized hole for an exit wound in the off shoulder and tuned the inside to jelly meat. Keen to see how the Bergers compare, but thought you may be interested in these projectiles too. Obviously not going quite as fast as I'd like, but for a 0.4moa 3 shot group for the first ever load with them, I'm pretty happy!
Attachment 246164

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Yeah looks like an interesting choice. Nosler say this bullet will expand reliably down to 1350fps which is exceptional for a bonded bullet, or any bullet. The price of them is pretty up there but I guess you get what you pay for. 2762fps is not bad for a 142gn projectile. i might have to give them a try thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by zeropak

Yeah looks like an interesting choice. Nosler say this bullet will expand reliably down to 1350fps which is exceptional for a bonded bullet, or any bullet. The price of them is pretty up there but I guess you get what you pay for. 2762fps is not bad for a 142gn projectile. i might have to give them a try thanks for the info.

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142 ABLR work really well I've shot a couple of reds with them and they shoot really well the 129 ABLR would also be good in the Creedmoor

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

so reading that...I would think he had been using a really fragile explody projectile all those years ago.... we have all heard tales of bullets exploding on outside of shoulder...personally Ive only seen it once and entirely my fault,shouldnt have been using that load on that animal a 110grn hp varmit in .270w on fallow yearling.still have the skin here and remember it like yesterday.hit fair in shoulder,animal dropped and screamed (still haunts me ,only time ever heard deer do it) reloaded and put 130grn norma through same place,instant lights out. I know it went through same hole as there is no other hole in skin.
that same 110 was dynamite on wallabies.....still is,just dont try it on anything bigger.lesson learnt.
wasnt fault of bullet...was wrong tool for the job.

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.308 at roughly 400 yards clean through the shoulders and out the other side he reckons. Swears its the most unreliable shot for anchoring a dog, and would rather get them somewhere in the spinal column if he could.

Hmmmm a 30calibre hole through shoulder blades and thin bit of lungs n it kept running.....the mystical "void shot" perhaps or just not enough resistance to open up or transpher shock at all.....or didn't hit shoulders at all...

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Originally Posted by Jt89

.308 at roughly 400 yards clean through the shoulders and out the other side he reckons. Swears its the most unreliable shot for anchoring a dog, and would rather get them somewhere in the spinal column if he could.

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Yep they need a bit of resistance, at most ranges in my experience with the 30 cal AMAX. Shot many goats with them at about 10-20 yards with 308win, quite a few shot through both shoulders needed some convincing they were going to die :XD: Mr Bowie sorted them out. Anyhow, I'm getting off topic