Just how special is the 6.5CM? Seems like a disease here in NZ....is it really better than the plain jane 260 Rem or trusty 6.5x55???
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Just how special is the 6.5CM? Seems like a disease here in NZ....is it really better than the plain jane 260 Rem or trusty 6.5x55???
Its just the latest fashion caliber it probably goes 20fps faster than something already developed so must be good
Is it better than a 260 rem or 6.5x55 - not that I can see.
It was designed as a better cartridge for the AR10 platform I believe, and it definitely has better characteristic for long range shooting than the 7.62x51.
It's a compromise between 5.5mm and 7.5mm
Prolly easier to load long 140s in a short action than 260
Well over rated IMO. They don't have the SD to knock down an animal as quick as a 308. From what I have seen it always takes more than one shot to kill a red.
The flip side is that they are nice to shoot, very accurate and low recoil. That said so is my 308.
NoQuote:
Originally Posted by LJP
It was a craze about 5 years ago but now its just a well respected, capable and trusted cartridge.
I just chambered two barrels in 6.5 Creed yesterday, one for myself and one for a mate.
I rechambered a 20" trueflite from 260Rem which gave me a max of 2700fps with 139gr Lapua scenars and 42.5gr of RL16 which is as hot as I will load it without compromising brass , now as a 6.5 Creedmoor it runs 43gr of RL16 at 2880fps with the same projectile and 5mm less barrel length. Its just more efficient than .260 with its shorter straighter walled case which is also better for long seated projectiles and feeding from magazines. The small primed brass can take a hiding too.
It is much shorter than 6.5X55 which runs a long action and gets its best performance from longer barrels and slower burning powders. 6.5 Creedmore is an inherently accurate cartridge with target shooting roots but makes for a superb hunters cartridge with shorter barrels and the right projectiles.
Im quite happy with my 6.5x55s performance the sl longer cartridge doesn't worry me at all.
It would be interesting to see side by side performance and accuracy figures for the 2. A 22 inch barrel is not that much of a disadvantage
Not in my experience, I shoot both .308win, 6.5 Creedmore and 6.5x47 Lapua on game and can say confidently that the 6.5s have performed better on deer and goats on all accounts. Projectile choice and shot placement is always more important. Ive never had to send a second finishing shot with the 6.5 due to lack of knock down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
They carry higher velocities out further than the .308 so with lighter jacket projectiles such as Amax or TMKs they are great at dumping high energy even out past 500y.
It isnt a military cartridge, which carry restrictions in some jurisdictions. Not an issue in NZ though.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is hugely popular in the U.S. and quickly gaining popularity here. There's some exaggerated claims made about the cartridge but the main reason for the popularity is the amount of low cost short action bolt rifles chambered in the cartridge that all seem to shoot very accurately. The factory ammunition available is reasonably priced unlike the .260 Remington. Also the CM is one that's easy to get to shoot very accurately when handloading.
I have a Tikka T3x 6.5 Creedmoor that with handlaoads consistently shoots 5 shot groups of .35 M.O.A. I've had many groups less than that. I was amazed that a mid priced factory rifle could do that. Never had to use more than one shot to kill a deer either although they weren't large reds.
I personally wouldn't compare a 6.5 CM to a .308. I use my .308 for general bush hunting using 165 gr bullets and more specifically for the huge pine forest stags in my local area. I'm not saying that a 6.5 CM wouldn't work but when you've got a massive red stag built like a Sherman tank with shoulder bones to match I'll take a .308 or larger cartridge any day. A lot of guys in my area use a .300 WSM or .300 WM for these stags.
However, as a general deer hunting cartridge the 6.5 CM along with the .260 Rem and 6.5x55 is great choice up to reasonable ranges. Certainly not 1000 yards like some people claim though.
Yes it is.. the USA military have adopted it. I had to import a CIP (European std) chamber reamer instead of the now restricted SAAMI spec reamer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
It doesn't perform any better than a 260 or 6.5x55, what it offers is the same or similar performance slightly more efficiently, but fitting comfortably in a small action.Quote:
Originally Posted by LJP
The biggest advantage is the right from the get go it was marketed well, knew what section of the market it appealed too and ensure rifles had barrels with the right twist rrate for heavy projectiles and factory ammunition was widely available at a reasonable price with match grade ammo being easy to get.
Whilst a lot of the new wonder cartridges don't do anything ground breaking, they are marketed correctly and have a steady supply of gpod factory ammo available that you can go buy a gun with good accurate ammo from day one.
There are dozens of cartridges developed over the last 50 odd years that were good rounds, but failed due to lack of factory ammo, rifles in stupid twists, lack of match ammo etc etc.
The 260rem was almost dead in the water due to being marketed to the wrong crowd, same with 284win.
Both excellent cartridges, but almost dead as a do do due too not knowing their intended end user.
I've had no problem going from a 7mmdown to a .260 on reds shot a nice big stag at 500yards with it no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
As has been mentioned, ammo-availability, is a huge factor. In a way, the Market was trying to get away from the weak-action 6.5x55 hype (BS!). They knew it was a winner, from what down-loaded swedes could do, and what years of forums showed handloads could do in that same caliber, long before all the other 6.5-hybrids came along. Most hunters (USA at least) just want to buy grunty, off-the-shelf ammo. All us Swede-owners, just yawned and smiled, when it came along. It is a good all-rounder, and I've yet to see an inaccurate one...plus all you .308 guys should compare how many wet ph-books the two will go through, side-by-side with equivalent projectiles. You might be surprised. The US military was, back in the day, when the Swede out-performed the 7.62-Nato, by 9" into compressed-wet-sand-bags...so the "Sweedmore" should be adequate for most things,given that its 'almost' a x55....almost
You need to gen up on what SD is and how calculate it, then run the numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
Actually, I'll do it for you.
.308 175gr ELD-X.... SD = 0.264
.308 150gr GameKing.... SD = 0.226
.264 143gr ELD-X.... SD = 0.293
.263 130gr GameKing SD = 0.266
As for needing second shots to kill a red, maybe your hunting with the blind?
Sorry, courier has let me down (again) this morning, so I'm picking on you.
:fighting:
Learn something new every day! Nothing is safe from the GI's it would seem!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman
I thought that might spice it up a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
Don't see what all the fuss is about.
Hit 'em right, they fall down dead.
Nothing wrong with a 260AI (I don't have one).
I'll neck down all the 308 brass I've got, and get a barrel in 6.5, chambered for 260AI, and fire form the brass.
That's if I ever shoot a 308 barrel out.
And if the arthritic shoulder needs to downsize.
Bigger holes bleed more - SD is only important for big heavy animals, where deep penetration is needed IMHO.
I dont own one but saying stuff like that is so stupid. If its taking more than one shot with pretty much any of the 308 based cases inside 300 yards in NZ you are picking the wrong projectile, dont know where to aim, or suck at shooting. The only other option is the odd shot were things dont go to plan (which happens but shouldn't every shot). A 140 class 6.5 projectile is plenty for anything in NZ if you know your limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
Chardonnay, camembert and creedmoor...the only way to hunt in style baby, but only of you like to call goat meat 'chèvre'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetroot
Exactly. Marketing. Good selection of rifles and accurate off the shelf ammo. With PRS style shooting becoming more and more popular, the availability of bulk accurate factory ammo at a good price for those that dont reload i think is probably the biggest factor in the success.
Sweed and 260 should theoretically get higher velocity's. But really you are splitting hairs in the differences.
260 ammo on the shelf is like unicorns. And if you find it on the shelf you pay for it too. My 260 came with a box of 140gr core loks that the sticker price was $85 !!! who wants to pay 85 bucks for 20 soft point rounds?
and as others have mentioned factory swede ammo is anemic AF.
Any wild cat or new cartridge released there will be an existing cartridge that will do a very similar job. Its all in the marketing and availability of ammo and reloading components.
All the 6.5 calls work, so I will stick with the swede, as for lacking penetration pass throughs on sambar make them more than adequate. The swede is more accurate than I am which is nice, mild to shoot etc. Pretty much like all the 6.5 s out there, the choice is yours.
IF the creedmore HADNT been available in AR platforms and you can say the same for the 6.8spc and spc11 and the 450 bushmaster NONE of them wouldve been more than a blip on the radar and would still be considered wildcat rounds....
BECAUSE they were and rode the wave they flourished...some wild claims did them a disservice but used within the limits of good sense all three are good at what they do.
the good news is that because they have flourished the projectile choice in these calibres has increased a whole heap....
I wont be selling a .308 or .270 to buy one anytime soon.
In its defence, it IS a very accurate round. Nobody seems to have issues with it doing well under MOA goups. Look up how it came about, interesting story.
On most actions it is easy to "load them long" it comes off the shelf with some very accurate loads as well.
Is it any better than other short action 6.5's ....nah its just another arrow in the quiver.
Yes you can get better ballistics etc from an AI version of 260 etc but then you arent getting "off the shelf" accuracy.
Its generated a lot of sales and interst in reloading too....... and that aint a bad thing.
If its not performing on game then that is down to projectile choice for the job at hand.
Having had / have both 260 and CM there isnt much between them I would happily use either interchangably ( is that a word )
There was a flurry of 6+mm in the world's militaries end of the 19th Century, they had thought long and hard about it and settled on 6.5 as the ideal calibre. The Scandinavians (swedes + norse, not just the swedes) settled on the 6.5x55, the Japanese on their 6.5x51SR (similar case capacity to 6.5creedmoor and about 1.5x muzzle energy of 5.56x45). The Americans in turn went overboard and had their 6mm Lee Navy, a very flat shooter (whose main legacy is as the mother case for .220 Swift) but their bores got eaten up by the hot, eroding, Rifleite powder and they settled on the 30/40 Krag. The Japanese in turn standardised on a rimless .303 clone shortly before WW2.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewa
Post WW2 the pendulum stayed on 30 calibre, in the form of the .308 which is just a short action 30/06. But then (because it was really to big for infantry weapons, especially the M14 with high barrel above its gas tube) the military pendulum flicked waaayyy back to the .223... whose main advantage is that you get to carry a lot more bullets.
Now we seem to be settling on a short action 6.5 Jap. No problem with that. We know they make great cars and much better photocopiers, great everything. A superior nation getting it right in so many ways.
True about the hole/bleed-thing...I constantly have to remind myself that 'Many', dont reload, a reloaders answer to this, is to choose the projectile that doesnt go straight-through and out the other side ( I find 140's do this often .in 6.5x55) So we find something that is a bit more 'Frangible' in the 120, and lower. It delivers all the energy to the point of impact-through,but not out the other side. They seem to perform way past what they should. At the end of the day, its whatever works, and I do admit, if I was rifle-less, I'd seriously look at a CMQuote:
Originally Posted by WallyR
Similar? I'm not so sure. Designing cases on a small primer pocket head I see as a step change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nugget connaisseur
I have all 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by LJP
So, the 6.5 Creedmoor is not magic. Just a lot of marketing on a successful 6.5 platform A real coup for Hornady. And the 260 Rem and 6.5x47 are for all intents and purposes identical... they damn well should be, after all they are shooting the same bullets!!!
There are advantages in traj and drift over .308 though but many of those advantages do not show up until you are beyond 500m. In fact under 500m, I would stick with .308 based on cost alone.
I do have a Precision rifle in 6.5 CM and a DMR AR10 in 6.5 and they are a delight in the field and at the range.
But they are no better or worse than other 6.5s.... But they are powder efficient, the neck angle leads to less brass working, small primer is nice... it is the little things that make it worthwhile to pursue.
Na mate, I've had numerous bang flop kills. The barstards don't even have the decency to roll down the hill for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Gkp
Just like a 260 or swede except you can buy factory ammo and everyone Chambers a riflein the cartridge. More of a good thing is a good thing.
always makes me wonder how good these new cartridges are quite a few come up second hand fairly fast after they come out whats with that go and buy one then find out its not so great or something
I am enjoying my 6.5CM... had it for about 6 month. I stepped up from a 223 that I bought for enjoyable target shooting and chose the 6.5 looking for moderately tame recoil that I could begin to scratch a long range itch with.
I am not a hunter and cannot comment on knock down power, but what I will say is that up until 4 weeks ago I had not shot past 200m, then with a little ballistics help (Bloke with Kestral) ...on a good strong windy day, I was regularly getting on steel over 1000m away... now I am hooked.
Probably because in a real world situation at hunting ranges; most 243+ calibres in the boiler room knock animals down :)Quote:
Originally Posted by northdude
Some guys just have to try out that new caliber then move on to the next big thing, some guys are always looking for the silver bullet. Some guys find they need to paint the house / buy a car and sell their rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by northdude
Its like toyota hiluxes too theres always heaps of them for sale.
I find arguments in the caliber intriguing.
Some don’t like it because it’s ‘new’ and the ‘normal’ caliber works better anyhow...
Funny though as that’s probably just human nature. Change is the most difficult thing to deal with as we get older or for those comfortable with what works for them.
I like most people my age (mid 40’s) thought it would be a craze but it’s been around a while and is most likely here to stay.
Does it work? Yep, smashes everything I’ve aimed at within 400yds Andy probably further as did my .223, .243, my mates 7mm08 and .270
No, it’s not the ‘One ring to rule them all’ but it’s inherently accurate and easy to shoot while being kind on barrels so it’s a winner in a lot of areas.
You won’t find me on a soap box preaching about it, just as you won’t find me throwing poo at other calibers to make myself feel good about my choices.
I did have to find out why people love it though and I can see why.
Thanks for all the feedback. Looks like the round is so popular because the factory got it right first time. An OAL that you can seat projectiles way out & still fit a mag, twist rates matched to high BC bullets, factory ammo that just shoots well in most 6.5cm rifles. Not sure if I'll hop on the bandwagon yet.... :redbullsmiley:
do you hand load plenty of caliber options if you do
Shots 21 - 24 from a brand new Tikka 6.5CM, at 150y from a shitty position standing on one tip-toe to shoot across the tray on the back of a ute. My Remington 6.5CM put ten consecutive shots inside 1.2" on one very fine day. Other calibers can do the the same, but you can't call that kind of performance a craze.
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