Thread: 7mm08 loads and a short barrel

No overpressure isnt a brick wall that you run into...

the other way around... its metal parts hitting your stubborn head at high velocities. And quite frankly, as long as it is only your head I won't loose any sleep over it, despite wishing that everything goes well.

Anybody please: If you run overly hot loads and only rely on the visual appearance of the deformation of a piece of brass with unknown properties: Please do not test these loads at a busy range, only test them at your bros farm where if the gun blows up you only injure yourself and not any innocent bystanders...

Any accident involving multiple people will no doubt eventually lead to tighter regulations for reloaders, and as always will only punish those that actually have a clue of what they are doing...

GRT suggests 40gr should be your limit at 2543fps.

I'd just load them to 2500fps and be happy.

If these pressure graphs and things are correct my guess is that a lot of handloads are up over the max pressure for the cartridge. It might even be the majority. Given the absence of blown primers and wrecked brass, let alone catastrophic failures, there must be a quite a safety margin built into components and actions.

But it does beg the question @John Duxbury, does your bro have a farm?

Originally Posted by STC

No overpressure isnt a brick wall that you run into...

the other way around... its metal parts hitting your stubborn head at high velocities. And quite frankly, as long as it is only your head I won't loose any sleep over it, despite wishing that everything goes well.

Anybody please: If you run overly hot loads and only rely on the visual appearance of the deformation of a piece of brass with unknown properties: Please do not test these loads at a busy range, only test them at your bros farm where if the gun blows up you only injure yourself and not any innocent bystanders...

Any accident involving multiple people will no doubt eventually lead to tighter regulations for reloaders, and as always will only punish those that actually have a clue of what they are doing...

Alright, I'll give you some attention.

Explain to us in as great a detail as you can; what the definition of a maximum load is, for my rifle, for your rifle, and everybody else's rifle, when you know you are at that threshold, what the SAAMI pressures are based on and how accurate the ballistics programs are.

(Also you are assuming I am using this load, and you in particular have done it without checking before being deliberately offensive.)

Originally Posted by Tahr

If these pressure graphs and things are correct my guess is that a lot of handloads are up over the max pressure for the cartridge. It might even be the majority. Given the absence of blown primers and wrecked brass, let alone catastrophic failures, there must be a quite a safety margin built into components and actions.

But it does beg the question @John Duxbury, does your bro have a farm?

Yep got the farm. But I am going to find out what range STC shoots at now.

Everyone can talk about how their rifles different than the next and every brass/primer/barrel/chamber/excuse till they are blue in the face but at the end of the day regardless of what combination of parts you have, if you have a higher measured velocity than the maximum the load data states for a given barrel length and projectile/powder type (regardless of charge weight), you are over Saami limits. Your rifle isnt special, your barrel isnt "fast". Even if you are at or under a published book max number for your given cartridge, if you are seeing higher velocity than the books states for your barrel length, theres a reason for that gain. It didnt just magically happen. Its happening because theres a higher peak pressure in the chamber than what the manufacturer deemed to be the safe point. It could be for any number of reasons, chamber spec, brass etc, but theres no arguing its there. If your happy running at those higher pressures and believe its safe and dont have any failures, all the power to you but the next guy following in your footsteps led by misinformation might not be so lucky.

For the average reloader that doesnt have access to pressure testing equipment which is the 99% of us, the best tool you can use to judge pressure is a chronograph. What the brass looks like is irrelevant. Alot of the brass available today is tough and wont show any signs of anything wrong untill you are way in the red.

Originally Posted by Tahr

If these pressure graphs and things are correct my guess is that a lot of handloads are up over the max pressure for the cartridge. It might even be the majority. Given the absence of blown primers and wrecked brass, let alone catastrophic failures, there must be a quite a safety margin built into components and actions.

But it does beg the question @John Duxbury, does your bro have a farm?

yes. safety margins are usually present in all rifles.

but they are just that. for safety. Not for inbreeds boasting about what awesome reloaders they are...

Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD

Everyone can talk about how their rifles different than the next and every brass/primer/barrel/chamber/excuse till they are blue in the face but at the end of the day regardless of what combination of parts you have, if you have a higher measured velocity than the maximum the load data states for a given barrel length and projectile/powder type (regardless of charge weight), you are over Saami limits. Your rifle isnt special, your barrel isnt "fast". Even if you are at or under a published book max number for your given cartridge, if you are seeing higher velocity than the books states for your barrel length, theres a reason for that gain. It didnt just magically happen. Its happening because theres a higher peak pressure in the chamber than what the manufacturer deemed to be the safe point. It could be for any number of reasons, chamber spec, brass etc, but theres no arguing its there. If your happy running at those higher pressures and believe its safe and dont have any failures, all the power to you but the next guy following in your footsteps led by misinformation might not be so lucky.

For the average reloader that doesnt have access to pressure testing equipment which is the 99% of us, the best tool you can use to judge pressure is a chronograph. What the brass looks like is irrelevant. Alot of the brass available today is tough and wont show any signs of anything wrong untill you are way in the red.

Sigh. That's the second time you've written this. People are aware of how to use chronographs. You even know I have one.

Originally Posted by STC

yes. safety margins are usually present in all rifles.

but they are just that. for safety. Not for inbreeds boasting about what awesome reloaders they are...

I'll make it simpler. Please explain to us exactly what a maximum load is. Specifically explain to us the "safety margins that are present in all rifles". Start there. Be useful. Show us your knowledge.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

Sigh. That's the second time you've written this. People are aware of how to use chronographs. You even know I have one.

Exactly, you have a chronograph so theres no real excuse, your not flying blind? You can see first hand that when the length of your barrel is taken into consideration, with the projectile and propellant combination you are using, your generating around 100fps more than any published load data max for that powder type & projectile. How do you suppose that extra 100fps is coming about if its not from pressure above and beyond SAAMI limits?

Originally Posted by 6.5 CRD

Exactly, you have a chronograph so theres no real excuse, your not flying blind? You can see first hand that when the length of your barrel is taken into consideration, with the projectile and propellant combination you are using, your generating around 100fps more than any published load data max for that powder type & projectile. How do you suppose that extra 100fps is coming about if its not from pressure above and beyond SAAMI limits?

6.5 CRD, I alluded to this on the very first post on this entire thread.

Don't you just love being lectured to by young people? I hate everyone under the age of 40.

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

I'll make it simpler. Please explain to us exactly what a maximum load is. Specifically explain to us the "safety margins that are present in all rifles". Start there. Be useful. Show us your knowledge.

6.5 CRD has shown great patience in trying to explain it to you. Sadly to no avail. You are either unwilling or unable to understand.

Ill leave it at that and am greatful that I am unlikely to encounter you in any of the shooting ranges I frequent.

Originally Posted by STC

6.5 CRD has shown great patience in trying to explain it to you. Sadly to no avail. You are either unwilling or unable to understand.

Ill leave it at that and am greatful that I am unlikely to encounter you in any of the shooting ranges I frequent.

You really should just apologise.

Its hardly a lecture. Im genuinely interested to understand your thought process because its for the most part the same as most people reloading, often blissfully oblivious to whats really going on. Ive been there and done that, run some extremely hot loads with no idea what i was really getting myself into because the brass looked fine, it was actually @Pommy that enlightened me to the reality of the situation after i put up a post asking for some advise on this very forum, which pushed me to grow a better understanding of internal ballistics. Ill be the first to admit i still have alot to learn, but thats a great thing. Theres always new things to learn, but it seems some are just too hardheaded to do so.

Dear God your still typing. It's exactly a lecture, re-read what you wrote; and an aggressive one too. Your mate STC egging you on, who doesn't know what a max load is anyway, and you blathering on about your tough brass and "manufacturers safe points". It's like listening to school girls on a bus.