Acceptable variation in powder charge

I've been reloading for my t3 7rm for awhile now, using the now out of production IMR 8133 with good results but i find it doesn't run through my powder measure very smoothly and gets hung up in the tube.
But if i pull the handle down and give it a couple of taps then a couple more taps with a large bolt (LOL) it comes out with pretty consistent charges. I check the charges on my scales every 4 or 5 cases and it varies by about 1/10th sometimes 2/10th of a grain so is that variation enough to cause accuracy issues.
I tried under loading with the powder measure then topping it up on my scales with my trickler(a teaspoon) LOL but that is very tedious and prone to spilages. cheers

Greetings,
Powder measures and stick powders are not the best of friends as you have discovered and trickling up to the exact charge is the usual fix. This is made easier with a proper powder trickler although I have used a Lee dipper and carefully adding the powder with that after dipping most of the charge. As far as how much difference this makes you would need to test in your rifle at long range and chronograph to see how much your velocity varies in your rifle.
GPM.

I remember reading an article quite a few years ago written by someone in the benchrest fraternity. It was about variations in ammunition which can happen during the reloading process and what affect on accuracy those variations might have. they covered things like concentricity, primer pocket uniformity, Neck turning, bullet seating, powder charge variations, etc. the finding from this was that small variations in powder charge was one of the lesser factors to affect accuracy. No surprise that the bench rest guys generally use powder throwers and do not weigh their charges. Admittedly they do use some quite fancy powder throwers. So I would say that if you are getting down around 1/10 to 2/10ths of a grain variation in charge you are doing well and this should be just fine, particularly in a large case and large powder charge in a 7mm RM

when throwing charges try this
throw into a cup..then add into case...if you get a hangup/crunch...chuck it back in hopper and throw again....I am pedantic and throw into cup,then weigh on scales and trickle up if needed for the big rifle....

How much difference in a 7mm mag? SFA

In a 22Hornet? Yep, it will matter.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

when throwing charges try this
throw into a cup..then add into case...if you get a hangup/crunch...chuck it back in hopper and throw again....I am pedantic and throw into cup,then weigh on scales and trickle up if needed for the big rifle....

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I do same. An old 35mm film cannister would be ideal, I use a pill bottle.

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Originally Posted by Oldbloke

How much difference in a 7mm mag? SFA

In a 22Hornet? Yep, it will matter.

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Thats what i have found. Larger the case the less sensitive they seem to be

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Originally Posted by blip

Thats what i have found. Larger the case the less sensitive they seem to be

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Of course. It's just common sense.

0.2gr is 2/5ths of SFA if it's a 50gr load. It's double if it's a 25gr load.

I use electronic scales to weigh EVERY charge of powder

No variation is acceptable


I have never ever used a powder thrower, and never will

Attachment 249128

I have powder thrower that came with my press I used it a couple of times but couldn't get the hang of it so use beam scales and teaspoon until recently when I picked up cheap a RCBS trickler, so now its teaspoon and trickler to finish.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

I use electronic scales to weigh EVERY charge of powder

No variation is acceptable


I have never ever used a powder thrower, and never will

Attachment 249128

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Unless you are rocking an Autotrickler or Prometheus, a good volumetric measure is still more reliable.

The top of the line Lee one is very good, but let down by the small reservoir.

Harrels measure is on my list.

Load a 10 round string in .2gr increments. Find a velocity flat spot, pick the powder charge in the middle of that plateau, see if it groups to your liking and if the SD is acceptable. In theory you now have some movement either side of that charge where a slight variation won't have a noticeable impact on vertical dispersion.

Good interesting thread, I have "like" a lot of these comments.
I've only been reloading for the last year and on pulling some factor loads, was surprised at the variation in powder charge.
I'm only loading 22 Hornet 10.2grn & 222 Remington, both with ADI AR2207 which is cylindrical. So small variations represent BIG percentages, which I find unacceptable.
I all could not get the hang of setting up, and getting consistent loads out of either of the two Lyman powder throwers, which are now back in the boxes and which I will never use. They are for sale, the add reads, "Lyman Powder Thrower for sale. Easy to set up and use. Throws a perfectly accurate charge cover time. Especially well suited to cylindrical powder!" Cough, cough, hmmmm?
I decant my powder into a tiny glass jar, then spoon it into the scale dish with a tiny stainless steel spice spoon, aiming for 10grn, then trickle the .2. It's fricken SLOW, but consistently accurate. I'm happy with accuracy over time.
I take some encouragement from reading that other forum members are doing the same.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

I use electronic scales to weigh EVERY charge of powder

No variation is acceptable


I have never ever used a powder thrower, and never will

Attachment 249128

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Sorry to burst your bubble Andy!
Read secrets of the Houston warehouse.
Your theory about exact powder charges is not your main worry.
Neck tension is a bigger problem.
Ring me when your ready to order your Amp annealer and will hook you up.
That goes for anybody on here to be fair!

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Hugh Shields

Good interesting thread, I have "like" a lot of these comments.
I've only been reloading for the last year and on pulling some factor loads, was surprised at the variation in powder charge.
I'm only loading 22 Hornet 10.2grn & 222 Remington, both with ADI AR2207 which is cylindrical. So small variations represent BIG percentages, which I find unacceptable.
I all could not get the hang of setting up, and getting consistent loads out of either of the two Lyman powder throwers, which are now back in the boxes and which I will never use. They are for sale, the add reads, "Lyman Powder Thrower for sale. Easy to set up and use. Throws a perfectly accurate charge cover time. Especially well suited to cylindrical powder!" Cough, cough, hmmmm?
I decant my powder into a tiny glass jar, then spoon it into the scale dish with a tiny stainless steel spice spoon, aiming for 10grn, then trickle the .2. It's fricken SLOW, but consistently accurate. I'm happy with accuracy over time.
I take some encouragement from reading that other forum members are doing the same.

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buy a set of LEE spoons ...and scoop the first say 9-9.5grns and the ntrickle the rest...is very quick ....oh and try some ball powder,both lilgun and 748 will throw charges very very close to perfectly..they do so in spoons too as both systems are using volume not weight.
once upon a time scooping with them WAS IT.... the normal way handloading was done...a list of suitable powders and it would be a middle to lower end of range load...it still works but we have got a LOT better and precise.

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Originally Posted by andyanimal31

Sorry to burst your bubble Andy!
Read secrets of the Houston warehouse.
Your theory about exact powder charges is not your main worry.
Neck tension is a bigger problem.
Ring me when your ready to order your Amp annealer and will hook you up.
That goes for anybody on here to be fair!

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

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What a salesman!

Surprised you didn't work a Nightforce sale into it too! :P

Just buy better brass (ADG or Alpha), no case prep required apart from resizing.

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Originally Posted by caberslash

What a salesman!

Surprised you didn't work a Nightforce sale into it too! [emoji14]

Just buy better brass (ADG or Alpha), no case prep required apart from resizing.

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Baby steps!
If I can help people out I will as I have had a lot of good things happen on here and seen alot of paying forward and great deals.
Cheers Andy

Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by caberslash

Unless you are rocking an Autotrickler or Prometheus, a good volumetric measure is still more reliable....
Harrels measure is on my list.

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I load on a 120i / V4 Autotrickler system which as we know is accurate to the kernel. I also have a Harrells thrower and with stick powders like H4350 / AR2209, you can't be certain to keep within 2/10gr. That's not good enough for me with small cases.

0.02gr up and down, about one kernel difference for AR2209 is what you will get from the modern electronic scale.

With +-0.02gr variation I'm getting less than 5fps SD out of the 6.5 creedmoor (of 10 shots or more).

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HyCZTikwS7s

depend on the rifle.
some rifles are really fussy. some Arnt
I've had some that .3 of a gn ether side only increases es 5 or 6 fps over 10 rounds. which is fine for what i do
and some where it changes 20fps. (way too much)

for hunting loads if its 0.1gn under or over i just send it
i think unless you have a high-end scale that's about as accurate as one can expect to be.

Quality brand Powder thrower to dump 98 percent of the charge into the pan and trickle feeder for the last couple of grains is the go.

Unless you’re half blind, most decent brand balance beams can weigh to a couple of kernels so to be fair there is no reason not to get your accuracy down.

Do agree with the previous neck tension comment though especially with the magnum calibres.