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As above. I have done my best to run the barrel in. Im upto 50 rounds and am unable to get grouping better than 2 inches at 100m. Weather the barrel is cleaned with copper solvent or just with hoppes no9...or both. I had the rifle in a sled even on a concrete bench. Im on my third box of ammo. PPU, winchester super x, and lastly sst hornady. The scope is new, although its abit cheap, but Ive had them in the past with no problems.
Can anyone help a newby out a little?
Try Nathan Foster's first book.
There's so many things it could be.
Is it bedded?
I'd probably ditch the sled and shoot prone myself or use sand bags.
What was the bore looking like, look into the muzzle on an angle, any copper in there?
The good thing is it's not way off. But bedding would help, and a heavy trigger won't. Maybe you just haven't found a round it likes yet. What's the twist? What weight projectiles are you using, try different weights. It might take a few rounds without cleaning to settle it down.
Is the parallax adjusted properly on the scope?
Take it back and swap it for a bolt action couldn't think of anything worse wandering around the bush with a loaded gun relying on a safety ...guess on the bright side if your with a mate youl always get to go infront :o if hes smart ! you've said you have tried different brands of ammo , have you changed bullet weights ? iv found that's usually the main trouble when it comes to inaccurate guns at least to get you close , when iv found something it likes or shows potential I usually just get the same projectile or a few sample pac,s of others similar & handload to refine it a bit more.
The 1960s called, they're interested in your firearms safety ideas. Or was that the 1930s?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boaraxa
Major tong to ground control , don't walk around with a loaded/cocked gun & never rely on a safety catch, I learnt my lesson there years ago...especially as the poster pointed out he was a newby .
Tried letting the barrel foul? Sounds like an awful lot of cleaning going on.
Check the basics, bases,mounts,scope. Then I would let the bore foul, then try shooting some groups they should hopefully tighten up.
To stay on topic, to the OP, 2" at 100m is really not that bad. Try a heavier bullet weight and see how you go. A lot of 308s seem to love 165ish loads. Better yet, find someone who hand loads to help you out. Factory ammo can be hit or miss, hence why so many people load in the first place. But cheap optics won't help either. If you are looking to upgrade then a weaver grand slam, sightron sII, or even one of the bushnell elite series are probably the low end of what's reliable and that you'll get reasonable service from. Anything a tier down from these tends to be hit or miss. Vortex diamondback can be OK and will be a little cheaper possibly. I have two, but one seems a lot better than the other.
Oh, and if your scopes cheap then I'm guessing the mounts are even cheaper? Decent mounts can't be overstated. Don't have to cost a fortune, Burris steel are perfectly fine.
Once all of that has been eliminated ask someone else to shoot your rifle!
It always sucks when another person can shoot your pride and joy better than you can but sometimes it just shows time at the range pays off.
Good luck with it
Do you have steel rings or Ali?
Ali rings are ok for rimfire but can't handle 308 recoil
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What a load of shitQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve123
Proven fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL
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Tell that to my 45-70 pushing 350's at 1950fps bit more than your 308 no issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve123
Have never had a BAR that shot bad, is a 2" group with factory ammo really bad?
Where have all the guys that actually know what they are talking about gone???
To Waitangi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proudkiwi
Have seen and heard of three 708's now that don't like 140gn bullets. Everyone was shooting 120 rem factory loads really well but spat federal 140's about the same as you're getting. Admittedly they were bolt actions but were different brands of rifle. I would suggest trying them and seeing if that helps
Good for you. The scope in my Ruger scout couldn't hold zero. Swapped to cheap steel rings and no problems. Alloy one piece like talleys are good but not rings only. Had steel bases and alloy rings on my howa, same problem. Epoxied Talley one pieces on and no problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by mawzer308
Experience says alloy rings are no good for a 308.
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Yeah YOUR experience which is subjective not proven as you have put it. However everyone will have varying views, steel is better but the alloys can be fine as well.
You are using a sample size of two to base your statement on. Ridiculous!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve123
I suppose that means the Nightforce Ultalights are not up to the recoil of a .308 either?
What your fuckin problem?
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cheap and nasty is cheap and nasty, regardless of material!
Once you have done this and the info bully and some others gaveQuote:
Originally Posted by mawzer308
take a look at the crown, doesn't take much of a burr to muck with grouping
25--30$ will generally fix a crown issue.
yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetawa
Firstly check all screws are firm,action to stock,bases to action, rings to bases, rings to scope as applicable.
If this is a brand new rifle I would not be happy with a best case senario of 2 inch groups at 100y and you are right to ask the question.
Secondly get somebody else who you know to have an accurate rifle in a similar caliber to shoot it, if it suddenly shoots inch groups or better you have found your problem.
Thirdly if it is still shit try(beg borrow ) another scope that is known to work well and try again.
If no change id be hitting up your retailer(actually id do that after getting a known good shooter to try it) Im not sure how you will get on there...do they have any kind of accuracy guarantee?
If no luck there then you are looking at
Can I live with the rifles accuracy or lack thereof ?
Possibly bedding and or load development to achieve better accuracy.
Spitting the dummy and tardmeing it.
^^ This is good info.
The tension on the front sling screw that secures the forend is also critical on the BAR's, take it that this is the new "shortrac" model.
I have a couple of BAR's myself (a Mark II lightweight in 308 and a Shorttrac in 7mm WSM). Both of mine shoot very well (about 1 MOA or slightly less with loads they like - closer to 2" with loads they don't). I think the core point re making sure the scope is tight etc has been well covered but a few suggestions:
- make sure the stock bolt is tightly done up. This can affect accuracy quite badly if it is even slightly loose;
- not sure of your experience with crappy semi auto triggers. Although mine aren't that bad you need to put a lot more thought/effort into carefully taking aim and then following through with the trigger pull - it is not like breaking a 'mouse's thermometer' with a good crisp bolt action trigger;
- both of mine were fine, but I have heard of people having issues with BAR crowns;
- makesure you let the bolt run free into battery/close for the first shot (don't let it close slowly);
- hold the rifle firmly with both hands. Mine do not like bipods at all;
- try some more ammo combo's/different bullet weights etc.
I would actually be a little encouraged with 2" groups for factory ammo - I am sure with everything tight/the above checked and a few different bullet weights to try you will get close to an inch.
Be realistic - I know there are lots of people on google that report bolt action accuracy and 1/4" groups with their BAR's (!) - reality away from the keyboard is probably different. A few are possibly capable of close to this but most probably are not...
At the end of the day they are a semi auto designed for a purpose (quick follow up shots in side 250 - maybe 300 yards max). Even 2 inch groups are adequate for that purpose. My personal view is that if your hunting style regularly has you shooting over that range you may as well revert to bolt action - i.e. with careful/slow deliberate shots required to ensure regular hits at that range there is no or little benefit with a semi auto...
Can you show a group for the "experts" to diagnose.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbrad
Contact Belmont ammunition and see if they have back in stock their 308 130 gr Speer hollow point load. It shoots extremely good in all my 308s and many guys on the forum like that load. A friend in South Island tried that same bullet in a bar with a terrible barrel, and could not believe that he was getting 1" 3 shots group or just under despite trying other stuff inside.
Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. When I say im a newby I can shoot ok. I have shot a couple of deer, am a member of a range. The same scope/ring package on my ruger american I could shoot under an inch. Everything is lock tighted and torqued. At this stage I think my next move will be to go down in weight to the 120g range as all so far have been 139-140g.
Yes I have done alot of cleaning during the run in process, as instructed by a smith. The last 12 rounds were not cleaned and I have copper starting to show. All 3 brands of ammo were all similar in performance, sometimes I would get a 2 touching and then the 3rd would be off(in any direction). No pattern in grouping at all. I will try and figure out how to add a photo of the crown.
Realistically 2" is at the outer edge of being acceptable accuracy for hunting up to about 250 metres but a new BAR should do 1" to 1-1/2" with loads that suit it. Definitely try other bullet weights, and stop cleaning it all the time. 50 rounds is way more than any barrel needs to settle down. Every time you clean the rifle it will take 3 or 4 rounds to foul the barrel to a consistent level that gives good accuracy. Only clean your rifle when you have finished using it and intend to put it away. If you can't get better results with other bullet weights then borrow another proven accurate scope to try as a cross-check on your one. Make sure the butt stock has no movement and the fore-end screw is nipped up. If you are shooting off a bench then make sure the fore-end is in your hand and not resting directly on any surface.
I like Huntsika have 2 BAR Shorttracs in the safe in 243 and 308. What he is saying is on point wth troubleshooting them.
2 inches with factory ammo isn't that bad if the rifle doesn't like it, however when you find a load that they like you can screw it down to sub minute quite easily. Initially we had problems getting them to group and tracked it back to the way we were shooting and the projectiles/ammo.
At the end of the day the 308 still shoots better using federal vital shok than reloads, whereas the 243 is the opposite and like reloads so its horses for courses.
I would recommend firing 4-5 shot groups just because you can identify if it actually is your shooting sending the flyer or if its the rifle i.e cold bore shots.
Just had a cleaning session...
BeforeAttachment 63399AfterAttachment 6340020 or so patches!Attachment 63401What I was shootingAttachment 63402Attachment 63403
Tasco scope?
The top pic doesn't show the copper too well. Seemed to be quite abit in there that the picture isn't showing. Even after an hour of cleaning, there was still some visible. Does that seem excessive? I've never cleaned a barrel that much before. Maybe it was fouled early on while i was setting the scope up to hit paper?
Its a konus scope with an etched glass reticle. Super clear and I've used them in the past with good results at the range.
My mistake I thought you had a 308. Just realised it is a 7-08. Forget about what I said
I had a similar problem recently...spent a small fortune on different factory ammo trying to find a brand and projectile my new Tikka liked. Turned out to be the crown. Had it re-crowned and I'm shooting consistently under MOA. Still not totally satisfied, but much better than it was.
However, I've got no experience with Konus scopes and if you honestly believe you're capable of good shooting, then I'd start with having a friend who is a proven good shot send a few rounds down range, and if it won't shoot straight, try a different well-known scope brand.
With modern engineering practices, I don't accept that ANY rifle made these days shouldn't easily shoot sub-MOA out of the box. If it won't, it should be returned to the retailer and the manufacturer told where to stick it. More often, the blame for poor grouping will lie with the scope, mounts, ammo choice or the shooter.
Good luck with your process of elimination
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