ADI 4Kg Rifle Powders

Hi all,

I have been trying to source a 4Kg bottle of AR2209 (ADI Powders) to stop me having to rework up my powder charge so often! I have been told by Reloaders, Serious Shooters etc. that there is no 4Kg containers in the country and the importer isn't getting anymore. I have been told it's because the 4Kg container is a different hazard classification class therefore cost prohibitive to ship.

I work in explosive storage with the NZDF so have a good understanding of explosive regulations, classifications and transport requirements. From my understanding all ADI powders are UN0161, Class 1.3C regardless of quantity. Explosive category doesn't change with quantity, but only through adding or removing safety features (vented containers, fuse removed from warhead etc.) therefore I call BS on the importers reasoning of different classification. As far as transport and storage requirements are concerned, there is no difference in 4kg NEQ (Net Explosive Quantity) in 1x 4kg container or 8x 500g containers.

Does anyone have any more info or a 'real' reason why the importer cannot/will not get 4Kg containers into country? Just trying to work out the actual issue and an ETA of when i could expect 4kg in country again...

if you have an empty 4kg bottle I would be keen on it please :) I have some powder in shitty containers......

Probably more profitable to sell it in 500g bottles than bulk 4kg lots, I'd be betting that is a more likely reason.
As far as re working your loads just buy more bottles from the same batch number if 4kg is no longer an option.
To be honest I don't shoot enough to worry about buying 4kg at a time, but have never noticed any difference between batches of the same rated powder.

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Originally Posted by 40mm

if you have an empty 4kg bottle I would be keen on it please :) I have some powder in shitty containers......

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Hey 40mm, sadly i don't have any empty 4kg bottle, but i can save empty 500g ones for you if that helps?

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Originally Posted by dannyb

Probably more profitable to sell it in 500g bottles than bulk 4kg lots, I'd be betting that is a more likely reason.
As far as re working your loads just buy more bottles from the same batch number if 4kg is no longer an option.
To be honest I don't shoot enough to worry about buying 4kg at a time, but have never noticed any difference between batches of the same rated powder.

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Yeah thats more what i was thinking, they can make more and store more 'units' in the 500g bottle. It's just really frustrating as buy 8x500g is easily an extra $100 compared to 1x4Kg...

Only thing I can think of is the dangerous goods classification. Smaller packages can be dglq, dangerous goods in limited quantities. Increasing the amount in each package can push it into an actual dangerous goods category and resulting costs and regulations.

Or maybe dac rules, dangerous air cargo.

I would go with option 1
Get to charge you more per 500 gram.

Pretty sure it comes into the country via 20ft DG boxes not by air. But stand to be corrected.

My advice id to wait awhile...... it may just be there are no 4kg available at present untill the next shipment come in.

Never had to "rework" a load between batches of ADI powder. If you are really that concerned about it then buy several smaller containers and mix it all together. Job done

Surely next time the Boeing goes to Aussie , hitch a lift and buy some over there and stick it in the Packup . And you get a bonus day or so on the Piss .:yaeh am not durnk:

What the other shops are telling you is what the importer is telling the shops.
Shipping powder around is painful . You should see the bs that Steves has to go though to get powder into the south island. Not allowed to put it onto the ferries so has to charter a large fishing boat to transport it.

I checked with Steve today,
Its a maybe Robert.. next shipment July ish but not sure if the 4kg bottles have passed the test to come as 1.4c, if not they may stay behind as it will cost $10,000 to add any 1.3c to the shipment plus huge delays getting a ship.
Steve
Best Regards,

Steve Collings

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Originally Posted by shooternz

I checked with Steve today,
Its a maybe Robert.. next shipment July ish but not sure if the 4kg bottles have passed the test to come as 1.4c, if not they may stay behind as it will cost $10,000 to add any 1.3c to the shipment plus huge delays getting a ship.
Steve
Best Regards,

Steve Collings

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Oh okay! That makes sense if 1.3C is the issue and they’d are trying for reduction to 1.4C then I totally get it. I thought everything ADI was being transported as 1.3C so didn’t get how a bigger container was an issue. July-ish sounds good! Hopefully they get the 4Kgs sorted and in the container.

It must be the new shipping company that is stuffing around because Steve has 4kg in 2206h and 2208

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Originally Posted by Oli1102

Oh okay! That makes sense if 1.3C is the issue and they’d are trying for reduction to 1.4C then I totally get it. I thought everything ADI was being transported as 1.3C so didn’t get how a bigger container was an issue. July-ish sounds good! Hopefully they get the 4Kgs sorted and in the container.

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None of that makes any sense , in order to change the classification to 1.4 they are playing around with the NEQ . To reduce the amount and make it more profitable , it would make sense to bring in smaller sized 500 gm bottles .
You should know the difference between 1.3 & 1.4 or are you not one of F.I.F.A / E.S.I.S .

NEQ would make no difference to classification. Packing and safety measures would. Such a rocket flares are 1.3G but become 1.4G if stored in a vented cage (contains the rocket, but allows pressure to escape). Likewise, detonators that are 1.1B become 1.4S when stored in a concrete filled container (allowing transport with PE4 1.1D).

So IATA or the sea transport equivalent may list some packaging requirements that can bring smokeless powder down to 1.4C using another UN number.

From some quick research it looks like the likely contender for the reclassification is UN0509 which is 1.4C. That would have to come from ADI to change the hazard classification.

But the thing is that the Shipping Container is " Fixed " . He cannot change the container , economically , so the only way to do it is to fill the container until he reaches tipping point .
What he is playing with is the shipping classification , when it reaches the shop then it reverts to 1.3 because the plastic container is no match for the powder . For the Civy world economics rule , for the Military world it's how can some dumb p#ick wreck it .

It actually doesn't mater how or why...all that matters is if we can get it.

Why doesn't ADI sell 2217 or 2225 in 4KGs where Hodgdon do H1000 & Retumbo in 8lb....

I asked a Thales rep that question two years running & got silly answers so I left it....all that matters is can we get it ?

How much it costs is secondary

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Originally Posted by Oli1102

Hey 40mm, sadly i don't have any empty 4kg bottle, but i can save empty 500g ones for you if that helps?

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Thanks mate, I already have some of those. Will wait for a 4 kg one to turn up. Cheers

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

It actually doesn't mater how or why...all that matters is if we can get it.

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Very true! :) just a query that’s all! Hopefully we can get the 4Kgs across the ditch it in the near future.