Ok , I'm not up with this though it seems to be a thing people do
Can some one please educate me on the why and when this needs to be done.
Thanks.
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Ok , I'm not up with this though it seems to be a thing people do
Can some one please educate me on the why and when this needs to be done.
Thanks.
In very basic terms- when metals work harden , for example brass cases expanding at firing then being resized; the work hardening can lead to cracking and thus shortening case life. Annealing done correctly can reset the crystalline structure of the metal to maintain malleability. Many target shooters anneal after each firing. I have heard of some annealing over thirty times.
Owen,Quote:
Originally Posted by jakewire
Anealling brass is meant to serve a couple purposes
*reduce work hardening of brass (think bending a paperclip back and forth until it breaks) annealing if done effectively "resets" the brass and effectively should increase brass life.
*consistency in neck tension, as with most hand loaders we go down this road to get the most accurate ammo possible and consistent ammo is accurate, so if your neck tension is the same every time you load because the brass is not getting work hardened then your ammo is more consistent and likely more accurate.
I use hot salt annealing and anneal every time a case is fired.... like I said for me it's about reducing variables to increase consistency/accuracy.
No matter the method if done effectively and consistently it does both of the things mentioned above.
There is no argument from me the Amp annealing machines are the gold standard in home annealing, I cant afford one but would have one in a heart beat.
Hot salt or flame annealing is still better than not annealing. You just need to refine your technique and keep it consistent.
Hope this helps :thumbsup:
I'm sure others will chime in
I tried the drill and gas torch method and couldn't get it consistent, my groupings went to shit when I tested it so have been saving for an AMP since.
There is an old annealing thread here somewhere.
I use gas torch and drill. The torch is fiixd postion in a clamp, relative to a lathe turned socket cartridge holder mounted in a drill chuck, which drill in turn is mounted in a slide channel so case neck postion relative to flame is consistent. Furthermore the timing is governed to be identical for every case.
As @dannyb stated. Consistency is critical. Once sorted though it works well.
Yes , the reason I have developed a sudden interest is my 120gr Nosler load has gone south used to easily be 1/2 inch now lucky to get an inch
The Federal brass has been reloaded many times and it was suggested to me it may need anealing so need to find out about it.
Barrel should be ok, it's a 6.5x55 Sako, probably fired less than 1k rds.
Thanks.
Basically it is about restoring elasticity to the neck of the cover. In particular, I do it every two recharges As I said in another post, the candle method.
If you have fired close to 1k rounds, the lands would likely have burned away quite bit as well. So apart from what you are checking with your brass, also have a look at how much the jump to the lands have increased since you developed the load and adjust your seating depth accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakewire
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Make sure you get your distance and time right. It is not rocket science. We use makita 18v drill. No issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse
I’ve done that also and had no issues with accuracy, last batch of cases I did I sent off to a mate who has an AMP annealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeRei
@jakewire, send your cases to me and my mate will do them for you if you like?
Check out the Ugly Annealer thread I put up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakewire
Worth looking at for the price. ;)
Try new or annealed brass first to see if your looking in the right direction
Then check for carbon ring
You may or may not havd thought of this but could copper fouling be an issue ?Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmsaum
How long have you not thoroughly cleaned the barrel of your rifle?
But before cleaning ... anneal about 5 pods. Reload and test. The candle method is very simple. Take the case in the middle of the case body, with your thumb and forefinger, and roll it back and forth while heating the neck of the case with the flame of a candle. When you can no longer hold the case due to its temperature, throw it on a damp cloth. Clean the neck of the case and you're done.
Not a smart way to do it, use a gas torch.Quote:
Originally Posted by JLF
Fred Barker, the man who devised the candle method, discovered that the heat supplied by the candle is sufficient to warm the neck of the pod. The advantage of using a torch is that it does not smoke the neck of the holster and that the desired temperature is reached more quickly. In my opinion, they are not serious drawbacks, the neck of the case is cleaned with the damp cloth, and apart I wash the case before placing the primer.
I have an AMP and have freely annealed brass for a number of forum members. It isn't an essential part of reloading (don't worry too much if you don't anneal!).
It does however do everything @dannyb and others say and can be thought of as one of the extras a reloader can do to lift the quality of their reloads beyond basic sizing, priming, powder charge, and seating. Sorting brass and projectiles by weight, adjusting concentricity of loaded rounds, cleaning the primer pocket, neck turning, cleaning brass before reloading are all in the same category (some of these stop being optional, eg untrimmed brass will FTL or split).
The fundamental rule of reloading is consistency...as little variation as possible from one round to the next to the 100th later. Annealing is one of many actions the reloader can take to eliminate inconsistency. So, not essential but satisfying for the reloader to know that is one less doubt to have when looking at their groups, and their limited supply of brass!
And I am still happy to anneal for free for members per the terms in that thread some time ago :)
That's as good an explanation of the process as you'll get.Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyb
Keep saving. The AMP was one of my better purchases - an amazing machine and made right here in New Zealand. I do a bit of target shooting and neck consistency was my main reason for buying the AMP.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse
Almost there, hoping to extend brass life on the hornet and 250Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-Ring
The AMP will certainly do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse
Some times we forget it is practical reloading not perfect reloading we want. Funny when you hear criticisim of simple methods until you dig deeper to find why the shots are not grouping. Suddenly the the old enemy appears... recoil.LOL.
Sorry, for most of the shooting I do I strive towards achieving perfect reloading. May not get there but I'm giving it my best.
for my 708 i used a salt annealing method .had it hot around 900F with a 15 count i then resized and used a mandrel 283 and it took about 150 psi to seat bullets . may seem a tad high but thats what the new brass was taking . i sized a brass with out annealing ,took a good deal more psi to seat that bullet
I'm doing my salt bath considerably hotter at 550c and about 7 seconds, but using an aftermarket controller on my lee lead pot the standard pot controller is trashQuote:
Originally Posted by misser
When the drill annealing method enables the old Vixen to head shoot plovers at a distance practical annealing is good enough.This is in 2 Vixens. I load both.I dont shoot them and both hunters are in their 70's.Quote:
Originally Posted by zimmer
I used the drill method for years and frankly didn't get any real advantage. Consistency is where it's at and that's very hard to achieve. Enter the AMP Mk II (stands for annealing made perfect) which uses software that analyses a sacrificial case and gives you a number to use for that particular brass. You record that number and use it whenever you anneal that batch of brass again. I realise it's a machine that a lot of people can't afford. Pretty impressive though and well worth it if you want perfectly consistent annealing which in turn gives the foundation for consistent neck tension.
Every thing you say is correct!Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-Ring
I would never use anything else now
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to recap i am not happy with the salt annealing .in my opinion it just not getting hot enough .tried a hand held induction unit it did not work anything like it does on the youtube vid.Quote:
Originally Posted by misser
i now have some thing different coming
what you got coming ?Quote:
Originally Posted by misser
I've never bothered with annealing before but just started using the old school drill and torch method for lack of anything else. I don't know if it's really doing anything, but it can't be hurting, as I am onto the third size/firing of the brass and and getting consistent results and neck tension.
I bought one of the Salt bath kits years ago but never used it and probably won't bother.
All you gotta do now is throw away the expander. Huge difference. Froggy knew what he was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis