Thread: Annealing questions

Originally Posted by Breyt

The down side of annealing is its very time consuming if you doing it by hand and unfortunately its inconsistent.
A well timed annealing process will be a better way to get the consistency you need to get the ultimate accuracy and life out of your cases

Consistency = Accuracy Time = Money.

And that is exactly the major failing with "automated" annealing machines... The duration depends on a variety of factors - flame heat, wall thickness etc.

It would be an interesting experiment to compare the results of an automated machine vs a skilled person gauging colour change etc, especially on brass that has not been neck turned. In my experience doing annealling by hand (cordless drill and deep socket) is fairly quick and easy.

Originally Posted by ebf

And that is exactly the major failing with "automated" annealing machines... The duration depends on a variety of factors - flame heat, wall thickness etc

You are spot on with your findings regarding variety's. However using automated machine you don't have to skilled. After you did the settings for that case ( Case length to the burner because only the neck needs to be annealed ) and using tempulaq to get the right burning time you set the timer accordingly. Lapua cases takes approx 10 sec
The machine will burn each case for the same time duration at the same distance from the flame annealing each case the same

Originally Posted by ebf

It would be an interesting experiment to compare the results of an automated machine vs a skilled person gauging colour change etc, especially on brass that has not been neck turned. In my experience doing annealling by hand (cordless drill and deep socket) is fairly quick and easy.

We did this a few years back and the machine didn't fail using a timer and the same burning point each time, a very skilled person did not had the same results doing it by hand..

Originally Posted by Breyt

The machine will burn each case for the same time duration at the same distance from the flame annealing each case the same

Breyt, I think you misunderstand what I said. Each case IS slightly different - so having a consistent amount of time in the flame is exactly what I do not like about machines... Let's face it, brass cases are extruded from material that is not exactly consistent.

If you have a bunch of cases that have all been neck turned extremely carefully, a machine may well get reasonably close. Take those same cases on a different day and run the machine with the same settings and you could be cooking your brass... So to be safe, each time you use the machine you need to tune the timing cycle using tempilaq or something similar.

Originally Posted by ebf

Breyt, I think you misunderstand what I said. Each case IS slightly different - so having a consistent amount of time in the flame is exactly what I do not like about machines... Let's face it, brass cases are extruded from material that is not exactly consistent.

If you have a bunch of cases that have all been neck turned extremely carefully, a machine may well get reasonably close. Take those same cases on a different day and run the machine with the same settings and you could be cooking your brass... So to be safe, each time you use the machine you need to tune the timing cycle using tempilaq or something similar.

How does the machine vari day by day? that sounds like a human trait.

Originally Posted by veitnamcam

How does the machine vari day by day? that sounds like a human trait.

For exactly the same reasons why the same batch of ammo performs differently on different days.

Atmospherics will affect the flame temp. Change out the bottle of gas, and the flame temp may change. Open the tap on the gas bottle just a bit differently, and the flame temp could change. Have a breeze running through your workshop, the flame temp may change. Big enough to make a difference ? You tell me.

The thing is that you use the same "skill" to set up the machine as you use to look for temp changes on the case when doing it by hand. Machines are often marketed as requiring less skill, and IMHO that is incorrect.

Originally Posted by ebf

Breyt, I think you misunderstand what I said. Each case IS slightly different - so having a consistent amount of time in the flame is exactly what I do not like about machines... Let's face it, brass cases are extruded from material that is not exactly consistent.

If you have a bunch of cases that have all been neck turned extremely carefully, a machine may well get reasonably close. Take those same cases on a different day and run the machine with the same settings and you could be cooking your brass... So to be safe, each time you use the machine you need to tune the timing cycle using tempilaq or something similar.

i have to disagree with your statement! Doing it by hand has a far beter change cooking your cases than a machine. Its like building a car by hand it takes ages and you make far more mistakes that the machine ever can unless your set up was wrong; You don't need any skills to set up Auto annealing Machine