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With shooting a few more comps the round count is getting up and beam scales are getting tedious. I'm looking at auto scales and keen to hear about experiences with them and if there is a clear winner in the options, mainly thinking along the lines of rcbs chargemaster or the hornady equivalent but open to other suggestions (unless eye wateringly expensive)
I have one of these and would never go back, so fast and accurate https://www.autotrickler.com/autotrickler.html
A decent powder thrower is way quicker than any auto dispenser. Even my "budget" lee thrower will hold a charge from start to finish loading 50 rounds, I weigh every 5th or 6th one quickly to make sure im still on the money and its never deviated. Ive thought about getting an auto but it doesnt really offer any benefit apart from being able to change loads quickly for load dev etc and youre relying on the accuracy of electronic scales which most people will check against a decent beam scale every now and then anyhow. Once a thower is set up, away you go.
Don't forget to mention the around $1300 for the AnD balance and another $1100 odd for the V3 to go on top of it, if buying locally of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by res2
I’ve never used anything else but a Lyman Gen6. I did have to strip down 100 rounds a mate did using a thrower due to errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
Because he was using six different types of brass weighing the loaded round didn’t help me much but the discrepancies between loads was off.
It started when I chrono tested his loads, they were HOT!!
Anyway I pulled his loads apart and weighed the charges, the worst was 5gr over desired weight:o
The only thing we could put it down to was occasionally he felt the thrower jamb slightly, like he was cutting a kernel.
I’ve no experience using a thrower and don’t know if this was an anomaly but I do all his loading now lol
This could be one faulty product or something in its setup, I’ve no idea.
As you might expect my vote is for an auto dispenser :)
If you have a look at some of the US shooting forums there's quite a lot of debate on the issue of powde metering and the general consensus seems to be that the likes of the charge masters etc are great for "hunting accuracy" or loading pistols etc but if you actually want real accuracy then you can't beat a thrower and then trickling using a good beam scale. Trickling aside, there's a lot of throwers that are every bit as accurate as the autos and even more so in some cases. Just revisited some of those threads and funnily enough there's a lot of guys that reckon the Lee thrower is one of those "bahco knives" type items, it's cheap, and it does as good or better a job than all the more expensive options. Your mate who was getting 5gr (!!!??) differences in charge weights was obviously doing something very wrong and probably shouldn't be allowed near any powder, electronic thrower or not.
I was using a lee thrower and found it to be inconsistent and would throw different depending how full or empty the hopper was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
I agree in part that using a thrower either manual or auto then trickling the last .3gn into the pan on your scale is the most accurate way. This is what i do with my chargemaster lite
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He’s a good bugger so I don’t mind loading for him ;)
From the vids I’ve watched most autos will measure to 0.05gr that’s ignoring the times they dispense to much, which occasionally they do.
I load 0.1 high then remove one kernel at a time until it reads correctly, tedious I know but you get good at it with practice lol
I’m sure like with all things the more you spend the better accuracy you get.
I’m definitely not dissing the thrower. Cortina uses one and he’s forgotten more than I know.
I just recently sold my Gen 6 on here. Had it for a while and was a great wee unit for me.
Always wanted a V3 auto trickler and will get one when next overseas and can spend some of my US currency I get in tips.
Just bought a frankford arsenal intellidropper to fill in the gap. Got it brand new and way cheaper than the Gen6 cost me new.
So far I like it. Its fast. Can calibrate for powder. Loads are bang on the money when testing against good beam scales and my gold scales.
Most of all being able to store your load data velocity and groups with pics if you want. I am always losing my paper data.
I only load 3 rifle cartridges for myself and have those loads in the old grey matter but do a lot of loading for other people and being able to store as many as you want makes it a quick reference.
You can even select the load and send it via Bluetooth and it will drop that charge providing you have the correct powder in the hopper.
Bit gimmicky and sensitive to static but overall happy with it.
Couple screen shots below showing how the data is stored.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c4299070a6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4e7b402ddb.jpg
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I used an RCBS Uniflow thrower for years. Dispensed just under and finished with a trickler on my old Ohaus D5 beam scales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noswal
With the Uniflow like any thrower it is all about consistant technique/how you hold your mouth. When operating the handle I always did it at the same speed and always did the same "knock" at the end of the swing. Any sign of hesitation/crunching, that charge was immediately tipped back in the hopper.
Some powders are worse than others for chopping eg 3031, whilst ball powders are brilliant to dispense.
Consistancy with the Uniflow was very good and it's just an average type thrower not as good as say the Harrells.
Cortina nowadays uses a Promethius Gen II which is hugely expensive (US5 grand, sponsored? ). It is a combination of a thrower then auto trickling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noswal
Has nice green internal lighting that wouldn't be out of place under my Christmas tree.
Found this video interesting. You can skip thru it once you get the idea of what they are doing.
https://youtu.be/PqO0iWXLQIg Part 1
https://youtu.be/mqvbG2hzUgM
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ive got a charge master lite and use it as a expensive powder thrower, then i use my redding no. 2 scale to finish off. i find there a little to much variance between throws with the charge master lite. If i wasnt so anal it would suit most people down to the ground. If you have performed an optimum charge weight and you are sitting in the middle of a node, no doubt it will be sweet as.
combo deals for the whole set up happen every production run that made it nz$1800 all up for me. still not a cheap option, and well into diminishing returns area. But its the fastest way I personally have measured target loadsQuote:
Originally Posted by zimmer
Best deals I have seen are thru Kaizen Tactical in OZ, or get the V3 direct from Adam in which case landed cost is less than local.Quote:
Originally Posted by res2
Speed of dispensing is not an issue for me as I complete each round individually once powder in the case. Whilst I'm doing that the seating the Chargemaster has dispensed and the next charge is ready. Then onto the Fx300i and maybe a couple or kernels to add, then into case, projectile seated, runout checked (target ammo only), into cartridge box, and then process repeated. Use the same pan on the CM as the Fx. Overall the time taken to load a batch is about the same if you charge all the batch as one process. So again, speed of dispensing is no advantage for me.
Of interest is how bad the Chargemaster can be. It will quite often truck along dispensing almost the exact required weight and then out of the blue it throws a whammy, mine are mostly light. Good enough though for hunting ammo.
If my Chargemaster were to die I would consider a V3. The scale on the poxy thing has already died once and had to be replaced.
I'm using a Lee powder thrower and checking on redding scale, find too much variation with stick powders, does the 223 with bm2 reliably but the amount of trickling involved with the Lee does my head in ill have a more detailed look at the ones listed, v3 looks the business but is approaching eye watering territory :P
I saw the Lyman ypu sold but saw it too late, the Lyman and Frankford are essentially the same price, did you find noticeable difference between the 2? You seem to be saying you prefer the FrankfordQuote:
Originally Posted by R93
Only got the Frankford because I got a good deal on it and it has a few extra features that I might find useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by distant stalker
As long as you can load accurate for use ammo, I dont think it matters what system you get.
The Gen 6 just worked for me. Had no issues with it apart from fine powder getting under the load scale. Once that was fixed, I took more care with it.
Havent used the Frankford much yet but it has thrown every charge bang on so far.
I would get say, 1 in 10 that went .1 under or over with the Gen 6.
The frankford also has a trickle function that when tested, was pretty good where as the Gen 6 didnt.
Being able to level the frankford was another bonus.
So far I prefer the Frankford I spose, but its new and shiny to me.[emoji16]
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You always seem to offer a very objective evaluation of things, much appreciatedQuote:
Originally Posted by R93
I like my lyman gen 5, I do double check every Xth charge on the beam scale, and it's always within the 0.1gr. @physeptone had a great trickler product, automates a a stand trickler and beam scale
I have the Frankford Arsenal Intellidropper
as well.
Great features and great accuracy.
Being able to auto tune to each powder makes a big difference and storing the loads on the app is great.
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F Class John did a review of the Frankford. IIRC it was on accurateshooter.com. Maybe he he also did a youtube clip, I haven't checked.
He said tuning it to the powder he was using gave a dispense time of 22 seconds for his load. Leaving it unturned it took twice as long.
Smart machine....
Ive got two powder throwers and a simple set of spoons.....
I dont bother using thrower unless doing more than 20-30 rounds and spoons are quick....
using ball or fine stick powder the throwers are great....its ALL about the clunk clunk...of handle....if you get stick stuck and no clunk clunk...weight charge on scales...if you can do the clunk clunk the same each time...and keep pottle topped up,they throw very well. I still do visual check over entire tray of powder filled cases,peering down into cases with help of torch,anything lower or fuller than the others/norm...gets rechecked...but its not often you get any.
:)
It looks as if chargemaster users aren't even bothering to respond here.
When they came out, they were the best thing since sliced bread. Still is for me.
I check every 5th load and most are the exact 0.1 gr I want. Occasionally (about 10% ) some are 0.2 gr over weight. I think a couple of granules stick together. I've found my point of impact at 100m doesn't change over a range of + / - 1.0 gr and neither does group size. No nodes for me. I leave a good grain weight between my standard load and the upper weight I've tested and found safe.
This occasional +0.2 gr won't affect my grouping or point of impact at ranges up to 500m. An F class or ELR shooter might prefer to weigh every load.
I load the powder into all cases first, then seat all the projectiles. Working the press while the chargemaster is dispensing gives lots of way out weights. Others say you shouldn't use fluorescent lights nearby.
There are a couple of tweaks: adjusting the dispense speed (google for Spanners instructions) and using the macdonalds 308 dia straw to get smooth dispensing.
Anyway, the Chargemaster may possibly not be the best any more but its pretty good and other devices can be compared as better or worse against it as as benchmark.
A lot more replies than anticipated, thanks for responses. When using the powder thrower I have been maintaining a pretty constant amount in the hopper and very uniform swing of the arm with a tap to make sure things settle evenly, check every load on scale and find some quite random weights at times with no apparent difference in throw in terms of cutting kernels etc, have wondered if static could be causing cling and causing variation. Have been loading for higher volume matches (160 round etc) and just find the manual solutions too slow, young family means time is a precious commodity. Have been doing a lot of reading about the suggested options and think have enough info to make a decision now. Thanks again to the contributors
try the clunk clunk,solid knock at each end of stroke...it seems to work best for me....a visual check will show up anything major in difference in smaller .223 case...maybe not so much in 08 but it possibly wont matter as much either....
I did a fair bit of research on internet years ago and found some that had compared all the manual throwers, wasn't that great. I've seen people use the manual throwers like RCBS then weigh on a Gemtech each throw, then add or take off, which was pretty much each time. Seemed reasonably fast system though.
I tried a Lyman GEN6 and mine was no good, local distributer said was fine, it wasn't it, was rooted! Threw in bin as didn't want anyone else to get hold of the piece of shit mine was. Must have been just unlucky.
Bought a RCBS Chargemaster Lite next, it's been real good. Seems to have loaded some really accurate ammo to me. Seating projectiles on a Dillon 550, toolhead also has F/L sizer. Easiest way to double check calibration is just pop on the 50gr weight every now and again and should read 771.6gr.
The thing is these auto-powder throwers actually are quite cheap electronics, just expensive when get here like many other things,
After a LOT of checking reviews etc on the interweb I got my RCBS Chargemaster Lite, 3 days ago. Got straight into checking out the new toy, as you do... I did this 70 times, then got bored. Throw charge; weigh on Hornady GT1500 digital scale; weigh charge on Lee balance beam scale that came in the kit. Of the 70, I had 2 charges that were .2 of a grain light, had NO charges overweight. I know that was a limited trial, but it'll do me. I have trust issues, so I know I'll be checking every few loads, just to see.... It was bloody expensive , for a pensioner. Will it ever "pay for itself"? Not in what's left of my lifetime. Is it as accurate as using the old thrower and trickler? So far, yes. Especially on my shakier days. Is the value equal to the cost? For me, yes it is, although I do think the cost is far too high. I could hve ordered it from one of the big online stores for considerably less, perhaps, but CRBF, doing the whole working out NZD/USD thing and the covid panic crap...you know, when will the next lockdown be, will the couriers still be working? And when they deliver it to the neighbor up the road like my last parcel, will I ever actually get to get it? It has plusses that far outweigh (did you see that?) the minuses. AND it's a new toy. No buyer's remorse, so far. I LIKE it.
I have a RCBS Chargemaster which I’ve had for the past few years but I find which has served me very well.
I find that you need to warm it up first before using to get accurate consistent powder dumps by turning it on and leaving it for 20 minutes before using.
If mine ever blows out I’ll get another electronic powder measure but I did bump into a guy a few years back who would load hundreds at a time... he used a Harrell’s powder thrower which are meant to be the best of manual powder throwers and the accuracy in his rifles were testimony to that!
I recently acquired a Chargemaster Lite. I do like it compared to my Uniflow as I can seat a bullet concurrently, which dramatically reduces my loading time. I have one charge dispensing, whilst another charge is settling on my Dillon beam scale (as a check) and I’m seating the projectile for a freshly checked charge. When finished seating I check the beam scale, pour if correct, pour the freshly dispensed charge into the beam scale pan, move my funnel and pick up the full case, press go and then seat the bullet. Personally I’m not a fan of the auto function as I find when things go wrong or I have a spill or anything it just makes it a bigger mess (forgetting that it’s on auto).
I have found the accuracy to be good, but not amazing. My experience is solely with stick powder (2209).I would breakdown my experience into these three approximate outcomes:
- ~80% of charges fall exactly on the money (as per the beam scale).
- ~15% or so will show the correct weight on the Chargemaster but end up being a fraction over (maybe 0.05gr) and I remove 2-3 kernels whilst on the beam scale to rectify that.
- ~5% or so that dispense 0.1-0.2gr above or under and display as such on the scale, which I just dump and re-dispense. The time taken to add or remove the correct amount and check on beam scale is not worth it to me.
Overall it’s cut my loading time down dramatically, but I do still check every charge on a beam scale (concurrently) as I don’t trust it enough for the accuracy I desire. I would also definitely let it warm up for 20mins or so to help with ‘walking.’
My rcbs thrower gets within 1/2 grain and i trickle in over the top of my A&D. Works pretty quick and it registers every kernel
I use a lee thrower for convenience and because I got it with my Breech Lock Challenger Kit. I took it apart first and "coated" every bearing / sliding surface with a HB pencil which made it run slick. Mounting it on a decent board is important or it seems flimsy out of no-ones fault but your own. Benchrest quality throwers are not mechanically different except they may have baffles in the powder reservoir to avoid heavier charges being dispensed when the reservoir is full and vice versa, see the diagram below. And some powders just meter better and easier, ball powders being the classic example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
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| <| <-- Baffles to avoid powder column pressure variations due to different fill states of thrower powder reservoir.
Not sure if it's worth doing this with a smallish reservoir like the Lee thrower, maybe with very dense ball powders.