Thread: BA13 load development

Hello guys.
I did a ladder test with me bergara a couple days ago.
When I got back home and pulled the fired cases out of the container. Some of the primers came out. Didn’t fall out when I pulled them out of the gun though.

Load data is
Perfecta brass
Ar2208
Fed 215 primers (because that’s all I have left)
Sierra 175TMK.
Loaded to 74mm COAL (actually measure B-Ogive but that’s what they are overall)
Not touching the lands.
43. Primer didn’t come out
43.5 primer fell out
44 primer fell out
44.5 primer fell out
45 primer didn’t come out.

I’m thinking it’s a pressure issue, but it’s not a hot load (using adi data)
What are your thoughts

Have fired Belmont 150gr though it and no issues

I am wondering also if it is the brass that just has very loose primer pockets to begin with because I did try seat a primer into a case after this (once fired case) and it was very easy to seat.

I'm definately no expert but sounds like you've answered your own question there. Loose pockets no good, if you're hand priming you should pick them up when seating. Different primer with a thicker cup might get you another round of loading.

Try a few other brands of brass with the same loads and see if they fall out as well, i think they will be fine, could just be a brass problem and slightly oversized primer pockets.

What makes you sure it's not a hot load?
My load for another 308 using 178gr bullets and 2208 is 42.5gr, and I think that's getting warm. In my Bergara BA13 I load down using 30-30 bullets so can't comment on the upper limit for it, but I wouldn't fire my 178/42.5 load in it without working up. Factory ammo is not much slower in the shorter 308 (24 vs. 16.5 inch barrels) so I suspect the Bergara generates higher pressure for the same load.

How hot you can comfortably load is down to how strong the action is and how tough the brass and primers are. It's all part of a system containing a small explosion. If you use a thin primer that pierces easily, well your "max" is going to be lower than if you used a hard magnum primer. If you use brass that doesn't have very tough primer pockets, again your max is reduced because you'll loosen primer pockets at lower pressure than if you had used something like palma brass. Pressure will find the weakest part of the system first and effectively your "max" has moved.

People sometimes fixate on the book data and think "it can't be too hot, because I'm below max" when the results are telling you otherwise. In reality, max is a relative term.

I think you need to back that load down a bit... Or switch to tougher brass.

Not that it's diagnostic but those primers don't look as though pressure is excessive, they still appear to have rounded edges.
I see the original primers were staked, as others have said maybe primer pocket size is erratic.

Depending on Brass and Chamber, id say 45 is too hot for a 175gr.
in my 308s its generally been with Saami chamber
150-155 gr 47gr 2208
165-168gr 44-44.5gr 2208

Obermeyer chamber
155gr 45.8gr 2208

Usually Lapua or Sako brass

Depending on Brass and Chamber, id say 45 is too hot for a 175gr.
in my 308s its generally been with Saami chamber
150-155 gr 47gr 2208
165-168gr 44-44.5gr 2208

Obermeyer chamber
155gr 45.8gr 2208

Usually Lapua or Sako brass

But have a look at your primer pockets, measure them with your calipers and compare to SAAMI that will tell you if they are out of spec or not

Greetings @Blair,
A couple of things to consider. I suggest you weigh your perfecta cases. The ADI data was developed by Hodgdon using, as far as I can tell, Winchester brass. This weighs about 167 grains without primer. Some continental cases such as GFL weigh 187 grains which is similar to some of the military cases. These heavier cases have less capacity and drive pressure up. The long boat tail projectile you are using will stick well down into the case further reducing capacity. The other factor is the crimped primer pockets which I assume have been reamed. If this has been over done the primer pocket may be loose which I think is the more likely cause. The old suggestion was that max loads should be cut by 2 grains for military cases which would suggest that your loads could be about 2 grains over book max assuming your cases are heavy. It is a pity you did not chronograph your loads as this would have helped with diagnosis. Let us know how you get on.
Regards Grandpamac.
PS. I just went out to the shed to have a look at my GFL cases and they have the unusual segmental crimp that your Perfecta cases do. I believe that Fiocchi make both head stamps although others may be able to comment on this. Weighing one will tell all. I made up some test loads with GFL and Hornady cases which weigh 187 grains and 166 respectively to test velocity but have not chronographed them yet. Will try to do that over the next week.
GPM.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @Blair,
A couple of things to consider. I suggest you weigh your perfecta cases. The ADI data was developed by Hodgdon using, as far as I can tell, Winchester brass. This weighs about 167 grains without primer. Some continental cases such as GFL weigh 187 grains which is similar to some of the military cases. These heavier cases have less capacity and drive pressure up. The long boat tail projectile you are using will stick well down into the case further reducing capacity. The other factor is the crimped primer pockets which I assume have been reamed. If this has been over done the primer pocket may be loose which I think is the more likely cause. The old suggestion was that max loads should be cut by 2 grains for military cases which would suggest that your loads could be about 2 grains over book max assuming your cases are heavy. It is a pity you did not chronograph your loads as this would have helped with diagnosis. Let us know how you get on.
Regards Grandpamac.
PS. I just went out to the shed to have a look at my GFL cases and they have the unusual segmental crimp that your Perfecta cases do. I believe that Fiocchi make both head stamps although others may be able to comment on this. Weighing one will tell all. I made up some test loads with GFL and Hornady cases which weigh 187 grains and 166 respectively to test velocity but have not chronographed them yet. Will try to do that over the next week.
GPM.

Hello, thanks for that. Will weight them when I get back home. I did wonder this fact after I posted this.
I did crono the loads. They were 2470-2550. From 43-45.
Thanks though will post an update after I weight them and also might try some other brass.
Cheers
Blair

Is your Bergara the 16.5 or 20 inch?
Your top speed of 2550 is very similar what I get from my “warmish” load in a 24 inch barrel, so allowing for velocity loss from shorter barrels is probably quite a bit warmer than my load.
Off the top of my head my mild 160gr load is doing 2350fps in my 16.5” Bergara, with 41gr of 2208

16.5inch
I know that it with a grain of salt, but the pistol data in the adi book says that would be about my expected speed.
Will definitely try with some different brass and wieght the cases I was using.

So I have weighed the cases. They are around 180grains without primers. So on the heavier side.
I also measured the primer pockets on the once fired brass and on my reloads
Once fired is 0.208” and My reloaded ones are 0.211-0.213.
So think it might be a little hot due to the heavier brass.
Will definitely try with some other brass to see how it goes.
Did like the speed it was producing and it was very low variation between loads.