Thread: Backcountry Hunting Podcast - interview with Kiwi Nathan Foster

Interesting interview titled “Use enough gun” on this US podcast hosted by Joseph von benedikt.

Enjoy.

Happened to hear that this arvo
Now that Chuckhawks is behind a paywall, Foster's site is the biggest calibre information site that I'm aware of

The only bugger is that Foster's personal style of communication is a bit like he talks in circles

Ahhh when men were men and really held guns. Such a scientific take. I'd genuinely like to know what makes him a professional, and expert. I have always appreciated his information for info on projectile performance but his takes on what can kill what is not based in anything I can determine as fact. When you start of by saying pigs are tough I have to laugh. I'd say people don't no the anatomy of a pig and make less than ideal shots.

He always seemed to come to a hypothesis and then be blinded by it. The whole "annealling projectiles" things etc where your not using a consistent medium is just statistical variance.

I will try to sit through the whole thing but I find JVB unbearable. He talks about taking shots in the 700-1000m mark (which is exceptionally difficult as so many factors are out of your control not saying its unethical or not but can see the arguments why it is) but looks down and makes pretty bold statements about using 6mms and 224 based projectiles is unethical including about people he's sat down with previously and talked with and knows better. I've also yet to hear of him actually doing any really hunting unaccompanied by a guide. He just seems to shill whoever is paying him most recently in that horrible tone.

Wasn't that just the bite back at the exo mountain guys interview with Form. I do wonder if he is taking the opposite site to appease those that disagree with the heavy for caliber in small cartridges topic. All for the likes

Amongst others

Originally Posted by Stocky

When you start of by saying pigs are tough I have to laugh. I'd say people don't no the anatomy of a pig and make less than ideal shots.

You're right, but on it's day, the humble pig would be one of the toughest we have on NZ. As a young fella sat morning job I worked with my cousin doing farm kill, the only animals I saw where the bullet did not penetrate the skull between the eyes (.22LR point blank stock yard) were pigs. The majority dropped instantly, but the only animals where it didn't were pigs. The odd concrete skull...

Came across a crash one morning heading to a farm to start the days killing, the car was rooted front pushed right in bonnet up, engine down usual good front end thud with the addition of some black fluff. Driver was sore and pretty angry, we asked what happened and he said a pig jumped out and crossed in front of him and no chance to avoid it. So where is the pig (being farm kill processors the cousin was looking to make a buck off newly tenderised pork). From the damage to the car we were expecting to find it dead at the side of the road but couldn't see it anywhere...

Driver said it didn't even stop running long enough to look back at what got it, boom car stuffed written off pig bounced and straight back on it's feet and gone. Normally horses and cows you break legs and drop them if you hit them, not that pig. They aren't all like that, but on their day pigs can be surprisingly tough.

Originally Posted by No.3

You're right, but on it's day, the humble pig would be one of the toughest we have on NZ. As a young fella sat morning job I worked with my cousin doing farm kill, the only animals I saw where the bullet did not penetrate the skull between the eyes (.22LR point blank) were pigs. The majority dropped instantly, but the only animals where it didn't were pigs. The odd concrete skull...

Came across a crash one morning heading to a farm to start the days killing, the car was rooted front pushed right in bonnet up, engine down usual good front end thud with the addition of some black fluff. Driver was sore and pretty angry, we asked what happened and he said a pig jumped out and crossed in front of him and no chance to avoid it. So where is the pig (being farm kill processors the cousin was looking to make a buck off newly tenderised pork). From the damage to the car we were expecting to find it dead at the side of the road but couldn't see it anywhere...

Driver said it didn't even stop running long enough to look back at what got it, boom car stuffed written off pig bounced and straight back on it's feet and gone. Normally horses and cows you break legs and drop them if you hit them, not that pig. They aren't all like that, but on their day pigs can be surprisingly tough.

I've seen a sheep head deflect a 300BLK sub. Knocked it out cold before it woke up once we threw in in the ute tray and its throat was cut. Had a scar running along its skull where the bullet had grazed it. Id say no penetration is more due to the fact pigs skulls are shaped like a ramp (as well as being pretty solid).

In terms of other anecdotal incidents. Just like people I believe there are just animals that have more will to live than others but they die just the same they might just travel further.

If pigs are in anyway able to stop a bullet reaching the vitals from a broadside shot I would be happy to be proven wrong. I can tell you that 64 Grain Speer gold dots exit quite readily from pigs through both shoulders. The biggest boar I've shot had a 147 ELD Match exit the offside shoulder and thats a piddly weak match bullet.

Originally Posted by Stocky

Ahhh when men were men and really held guns. Such a scientific take. I'd genuinely like to know what makes him a professional, and expert. I have always appreciated his information for info on projectile performance but his takes on what can kill what is not based in anything I can determine as fact. When you start of by saying pigs are tough I have to laugh. I'd say people don't no the anatomy of a pig and make less than ideal shots.

He always seemed to come to a hypothesis and then be blinded by it. The whole "annealling projectiles" things etc where your not using a consistent medium is just statistical variance.

I will try to sit through the whole thing but I find JVB unbearable. He talks about taking shots in the 700-1000m mark (which is exceptionally difficult as so many factors are out of your control not saying its unethical or not but can see the arguments why it is) but looks down and makes pretty bold statements about using 6mms and 224 based projectiles is unethical including about people he's sat down with previously and talked with and knows better. I've also yet to hear of him actually doing any really hunting unaccompanied by a guide. He just seems to shill whoever is paying him most recently in that horrible tone.

I thought I was the only one who couldn't do his content. The NZ wetherby video & episode was good. But everything else is pulling teeth. I couldn't put my finger on what it was.



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Originally Posted by Stocky

Ahhh when men were men and really held guns. Such a scientific take. I'd genuinely like to know what makes him a professional, and expert. I have always appreciated his information for info on projectile performance but his takes on what can kill what is not based in anything I can determine as fact. When you start of by saying pigs are tough I have to laugh. I'd say people don't no the anatomy of a pig and make less than ideal shots.

He always seemed to come to a hypothesis and then be blinded by it. The whole "annealling projectiles" things etc where your not using a consistent medium is just statistical variance.

I will try to sit through the whole thing but I find JVB unbearable. He talks about taking shots in the 700-1000m mark (which is exceptionally difficult as so many factors are out of your control not saying its unethical or not but can see the arguments why it is) but looks down and makes pretty bold statements about using 6mms and 224 based projectiles is unethical including about people he's sat down with previously and talked with and knows better. I've also yet to hear of him actually doing any really hunting unaccompanied by a guide. He just seems to shill whoever is paying him most recently in that horrible tone.

Nathan Foster also has a down on 6mm (as in .243) and doesn't allow it on his client hunting block. Apparently it doesn't cleanly kill pigs or anything big. Those of us that ACTUALLY hunt with .243 might disagree. Anatomy understanding, accurate shot placement and an unhurried approach to shooting are key. But as for .223........ well that's another matter

I cant stand his website. His cartridge descriptions are a mass of contradictions, and his so-called experiments on cattle beasts or whatever he says he tested all those bullets on, are never mentioned, never referred to or analysed and no examples given. I have come to believe that probably didn't happen. He might shot a dead one with something one afternoon. Yet the credibility of the whole website was based on those experiment he supposedly did. There is no evidence that anything was done.

His description of how different bullet perform are often circumlocutions, I suspect written that way to stop people being able to contradict him and say hes wrong. So he will often write that a bullet is really good, except that its not great. Or he will write that a bullet is very ho-hum, but is an excellent killer. Except for when it demonstrates delayed killing. (Whatever that is.)

He has hard opinions presented on everything, such as, how well a .257 Roberts goes on shooting elk, when its plain he has never even fired a .257 Roberts, and never at an elk, or we would never had heard the end of it. I can't imagine any real expert rating cartridges effectiveness by how much the target animal weighs, and everything he describes demonstrates "delayed killing" or some such phrase related to some distance; yet not a word in the whole website about shot placement.

Frankly, anyone who has difficulty killing deer of any kind with a .243 is not an expert of anything. And anyone who recommends SST bullets in every caliber is entirely suspect.

I have spoken.

Originally Posted by Gkp

Wasn't that just the bite back at the exo mountain guys interview with Form. I do wonder if he is taking the opposite site to appease those that disagree with the heavy for caliber in small cartridges topic. All for the likes

Sure seems that way, JVB just seems to take the old school view on everything, including his delivery style, I find him punishing to listen too bit like old ron S

Originally Posted by John Duxbury

I cant stand his website. His cartridge descriptions are a mass of contradictions, and his so-called experiments on cattle beasts or whatever he says he tested all those bullets on, are never mentioned, never referred to or analysed and no examples given. I have come to believe that probably didn't happen. He might shot a dead one with something one afternoon. Yet the credibility of the whole website was based on those experiment he supposedly did. There is no evidence that anything was done.

His description of how different bullet perform are often circumlocutions, I suspect written that way to stop people being able to contradict him and say hes wrong. So he will often write that a bullet is really good, except that its not great. Or he will write that a bullet is very ho-hum, but is an excellent killer. Except for when it demonstrates delayed killing. (Whatever that is.)

He has hard opinions presented on everything, such as, how well a .257 Roberts goes on shooting elk, when its plain he has never even fired a .257 Roberts, and never at an elk, or we would never had heard the end of it. I can't imagine any real expert rating cartridges effectiveness by how much the target animal weighs, and everything he describes demonstrates "delayed killing" or some such phrase related to some distance; yet not a word in the whole website about shot placement.

Frankly, anyone who has difficulty killing deer of any kind with a .243 is not an expert of anything. And anyone who recommends SST bullets in every caliber is entirely suspect.

I have spoken.

Well said
Everything on Nathan's site is straight copy and paste from wiki.
There's way more knowledgeable people here you just have to figure out the bunjis from the real deals.

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Well said
Everything on Nathan's site is straight copy and paste from wiki.
There's way more knowledgeable people here you just have to figure out the bunjis from the real deals.

Sent from my SM-S936B using Tapatalk

Wasnt a lot of it a copy paste from that old Kurby Allan guy

Well I listened to the podcast on the way to work (and back) today. That was a waste of time. Seemed one of the “reasons” people are using the lighter calibres is target shooting and men aren’t as strong as they used to be ��. Argument for larger calibres seemed to be as much about more damage if you don’t get the shot right. Lots of contradictions, no real talk about knowing where to shoot, waiting for a good shot, limiting your range.

Originally Posted by No.3

You're right, but on it's day, the humble pig would be one of the toughest we have on NZ. As a young fella sat morning job I worked with my cousin doing farm kill, the only animals I saw where the bullet did not penetrate the skull between the eyes (.22LR point blank stock yard) were pigs. The majority dropped instantly, but the only animals where it didn't were pigs. The odd concrete skull...

Came across a crash one morning heading to a farm to start the days killing, the car was rooted front pushed right in bonnet up, engine down usual good front end thud with the addition of some black fluff. Driver was sore and pretty angry, we asked what happened and he said a pig jumped out and crossed in front of him and no chance to avoid it. So where is the pig (being farm kill processors the cousin was looking to make a buck off newly tenderised pork). From the damage to the car we were expecting to find it dead at the side of the road but couldn't see it anywhere...

Driver said it didn't even stop running long enough to look back at what got it, boom car stuffed written off pig bounced and straight back on it's feet and gone. Normally horses and cows you break legs and drop them if you hit them, not that pig. They aren't all like that, but on their day pigs can be surprisingly tough.

Yip I ran over a pig in a HQ wagon loaded up after work coming out of Kaiangaroa forest, felt the wagon bounce up and down as the pig rolled along under the car, stopped and jumped out with a knife in time to see the pig running up the batter not even a limp