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I'm a beginner and I have reloaded ~ 100rnds for my mosin (7.62x54r) using Hornady .312 150grs, 42gr of AR2208 with good results.
I see Delta Mike have some pistol projectiles restocked and I see some .313 115gr projectiles...
Would it work? Could it be......dangerous? Do I need a pistol powder for it or AR2208 would work just fine? Any idea what charge weight I should start with and how far deep to seat the projectile...
Cheers.
- Mike
at slower velocity no problem at all....there will be data online for a projectile of same or similar weight.... there are both 308 and 30/06 loads using 110grn so you WILL find it...and if cant..sing out and we (the collective forum) will be able to give you a guide as to what powder and weight of it to use.
Might be too short to stabilize readily . Try it and see.
Thanks for the tips man, I found the load data for 110grs but they are all with .308 dia projectiles, this is .313 and I'm very worried about pressue (and seating it without destorying my brass!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Will try it and see if they work, cheers.
whats the GOLDEN RULE for reloading????/
start low and work your way up slowly......
the difference between what you have been using and intend to be using is tiny.... .312 Vs .313
and data for 110 will be too heavy of powder charge...being a LIGHTER projectile but yo ushould be able to find 120-130 and split the difference bottom line is,if you cant find same weight,go up to next heaviest projectile weight as it SHOULD be giving you a mild load for desired weight.
The 7.62x54R is halfway between 308 and 3006 in performance. Most loads for 110 grain bullets for them achieve 3000 plus fps however it's possible a pistol bullet not built to expect such speed might not like doing 100,000 plus rpm and disintegrate. Looking at the data you will see that for any powder the lighter the bullet the heavier the charge, that's because smokeless powder needs pressure to burn efficiently and with light bullets you need more to achieve that pressure. Looking at the adi data for a 110 gr in the loads for the 3006 and the 7.62x54r use the same starting load charge of 2206h and honk out at around the same speed.
if its just for plinking or small game...trailboss might well be your new best friend.
I intend to use it for light recoil plinking, while being as economical as possible, thanks for the input mate, will start low and see how it goes, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Yep get a load of trailboss if you can find any and you can't go wrong.
Are they jacketed pistol bullets or lead.
Lead you may want to look at a copper base or just keep the velocity down.
I run TB in both my 243 and 358 for short range goats and plinking.
Just make sure the bullets match the low velocity.
Ie in my 243 I use a varmint bullet @2400fps, in the 358 I use a 357 pistol bullet @1650fps
Z
Greetings,
I went down this road a very long time ago with my .308. While I could get decent accuracy from the 100 grain plinker and 110 grain varminter projectiles they shot a long way away from my 150 grain load. These were the days before dial up scopes. For projectiles to shoot dead on at 100 from a 200 yard zero I found that reducing the charge by 2 grains from my hunting loads did the trick. Later on I started using some of the 155 grain plated Frontier projectiles with reduced loads of AR2206H for practice and short range target. These are probably as cheap as your pistol projectiles. My load of 38 grains of AR2206H chronographs around 2,350 fps but do shoot a lot lower than full power hunting loads. The light projectiles will be stable in your likely 1 in 10 twist but may not shoot that well if the rifle has a long or large dia throat, possibly both.
Regards Grandpamac.
Alright this looks very cursed - I tried to load one up using "seat it at least as far as the projectile diameter", which would give a OAL of 2.440'' (2.110'' casing + 0.643'' projectile - 0.313'' dia.)Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
My Lee seating die would only go as far as 2.455'' OAL which means I only seated it 0.298'' deep.
Also this handload just looks so, so wrong...
Should I continue? Or this is just as silly as it looks.
Attachment 237449
looks fine to me....it probably wont feed from magazine but should be otherwise fine.
The bit that contacys the rifleing actualy looks further foward/longer than the spitzer
Thanks! I loaded two dozen more and will take it to the range on Wed. Will report back how it shoots then, cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Update: There is no grouping at all :wtfsmilie: I could not find half of the bullet holes at 25m (the target is about 20inch x 20inch)...
Good thing it had very light recoil :thumbsup:
Also some of the rounds were hard to close bolt, but they re-chambers ok after I force the bolt close and eject out. What could be causing this?
I'm thinking I'm not seating the projectile deep enough? Maybe?
chamber one and take it back out..look carefully at projectile,should see if rifling is hitting it.... as got shotgun grouping....hmmmm interesting,how potent of load of powder have you put behind it??? might be far far better with a minimum load.
are the holes you could find round???
Suspect it's got a generous free bore and the short bullet is wobbling around like crazy before it gets to the lands, as Micky says the holes will tell you heaps. Check the freebore by dropping a bullet in the breech and tapping it in with a rod till you feel it touch the rifling. Gently run the rod in from the muzzle till you feel it contact the bullet, mark the rod flush with the muzzle with a sharpie. Tap out the bullet and put a dummy round seated to your usual depth in the breech, close the action. Run the rod in again and out a second mark on the rod when you feel it toch the bullet. The distance between the 2 marks is the freebore when you have a figure report back.
Done, it's roughly 6mm (I assume that's not good)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
I used 42.2gr of 2208, I didn't save the target paper but I remember the holes being very similar to my "normal" loads, nothing too strange looking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
I have looked at the bullets you are using and they are a plain bevel base design. I suspect that you will have better luck keeping the speed down to no more than 1400ft/sec. I've had best accuracy around 1250 -1300ft/sec with plain base bullets.
I think we know the problem, the bullets your using are HBRC cast projectiles designed for the 32/20 and pistol velocities. That load of 2208 if it burned completely would push them at around 3000 fps way way too fast for lead alloy, it will strip in the rifling and they'll go everywhere. I suggest you run a bronze brush through the bore and reload some with trailboss as someone previously suggested or 10 grains of a shotgun or pistol powder like blue dot or unique if you can't get that and your problem will be solved.
If you want those kind of velocities (3000) with a lighter bullet use proper jacketed projectiles such as those for the 7.62x39
Greetings again,
Welcome to the somewhat frustrating world of loading for military rifles. Most will have long throats like yours especially if they have been fired a lot. My 70's .308 M700 is like that and will not tolerate 150 grain boat tails so my suggestion would be the 155 grain plated projectile available from Gunworks and likely others. They are cheap and usually shoot well. Your standard 42 grain load should give in the area of 2,300 to 2,400 fps depending on barrel length. In my .308 I am using a lighter load of AR2206H for around 1,900 fps. They probably start around 5mm from the rifling.
Regards Grandpamac.
Jump shouldn't be an issue unless the freebore is so baggy that it allows the projectile to significantly rotate. Even on a Mosin with a drainpipe for a barrel, I find that unlikely.
But over 40 grains of powder behind such a light pistol bullet... And those Mosins have a 1:9.5" twist too... Decent chance the little things are disintegrating after exiting the muzzle.
This is probably a good candidate for "the load" which is a small amount of Red Dot powder (13gr if memory serves). Fairly well known thing for making gallery loads for milsurp rifles in anything 308 or larger using a cast bullet.
I think M-H is on the money - those lead bullets are probably expecting to see 1600 fps. With a generous burn of 2208 youre probably spraying near-molten lead out the end of the mosin at 3000 fps. Trying to find a load to run a lightweight cast bullet from a large case like the x54R that groups well AND is safe and reliable will be quite experimental. Also might pay to check your barrel for lead fouling too.
Trying to reduce youre rifle powder loads low enough is risky and not recomemmended - risk of weird effects and/or bullets stuck in bore. ADI say only AR2206H is suitable for reduced loads, check their website, but that may still be too much. So if if you want to persist with those projectiles, youre going to need to run light loads of fast burning pistol powder or trailboss (also fast burning but bulky, so you dont end up with a case 60-70% empty space).
This is worth a read, while not directly applicable to your situation it does give some reference point to extrapolate from.
https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...The%20Load.htm
Other thoughts re difficult chambering
- check the overall length of your brass. If is grown a little and the cases are overlength it may become hard to chamber.
- one of my mosins had a chamber that wouldnt rechamber its own fired cases immediately afterwards, i think it was out of round or asymmetrical somehow.
- bullet touching lands - although you seem to have already checked freebore.
Haha - i was tapping out my post over coffee while thinking exactly the same thoughtsQuote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
Thanks for the input gents, will have to visit a shop soon and get some pistol powders then!
Also, it appears that someone from the ancient time used the same 115gr 32/20 bullet to reload his 30/06, pushing 1700fps, I guess I'll try to replicate that.
(Complete Guide To Handloading, Sharpe, 1937, page 262)
Cheers.
trail boss...red dot green dot as30 as50 ap30 ap50 are all pretty much in ballpark area you looking at..universal is the other one... trailboss is possibly your best bet and SHOULDNT be hard to beg a little off someone nearby to try it...
Download the Lyman manual and check it out for more options and wisdom.
https://archive.org/details/LymanCas...Edition1980Ocr
Yes it was 13 grains of Red Dot with cast lead in service rifles .30 cal and up. Google The Load Rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pommy
GPM
Thank, would Hodgdon TiteGroup be okay? It's available and on sale from GC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
The Cast boolits forum suggests it's a good alternative.
In the 1980's I loaded 100gn Hornady .312 XTPs into the 303 Brit & getting accuracy that was almost the same as the 174gnfmj, using info from a NZ hunting magazine to clean out a couple of mobs of goats. They worked great with big billies shoulders & internals being like jelly where they'd been hit. So using pistol proj in a rifle seems to work ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by KYP181744136
Phil.
Greeting Mike and all,
Titegroup seems to be a little slower than Red Dot and is supposedly position insensitive. It is also close to 700X. Hodgdon offers two rifle loads, one each for the .223 and .308 but that is it. Finding dependable load data is going to be the difficult bit.
Regards Grandpamac.
Greetings all,
Bugger. All this talk about cast lead has fired up my brain on having another crack at it. I briefly dabbled in it over 40 years ago with modest results and there are some 150 grain test loads with IMR4198 and Trail Boss for the Martini /Krag sitting in the blocks. This rifle and two .303 rifles all have gleaming bores just crying out for some cast lead. The Martini is being prepared for some 300 yard F class shooting but the .303's are just sitting in the safe doing diddly squat. Bugger again, I'm doomed.
Regards Grandpamac.
Update: Huge success!
I loaded them up with 4.5gr of Titegroup to start, with 0.2gr increments, 5 shots group.
4.7gr gave the best group of 0.6'' at 25m (one flyer though)
5.3gr gave the poorest group, well over an inch, possbily due to losing my patience weighing up charges :O_O:
About the hard to chamber issue mentioned earlier, I think it's because the boolit not being seated perfectly upright, will get a Lee Universal Expanding die soon and see if that helps.
Also, when I take the bolt out and look into the bore immiedately after firing, I can see this dark, fluffy cloud of gas?liquid? in the bottom half of the bore, and completely evaporate away in about 30sec. What are they?
Cheers, thanks for the input.
thats "gunsmoke" that your seeing.
great you have found sucess and can plink with your big rifle.
