Blaser R93, 30.06, keeper handload

First fine day in absolute ages here. I've had some handloads itching to go in a Blaser R93 I haven't shot for a while and want to bring into more regular use. So I got out this morning to shoot some paper. Using some old Hornady GMX 150 gn I want to use up. I think this is now a discontinued bullet. I remember earlier I didn't have much success with handloads using this bullet ( can't remember which propellents ) but got around to trying AR2209 which is just the business.
Load data is on the recipe sheet next to the target. Great thing about this group is one of the shots is the first from a cold, clean barrel.

https://i.postimg.cc/bwVqnN3b/20230706-155930.jpg

Was thinking to myself, thats not a bad group, particularly from a cold bore. And then I saw the last line on your data sheet! I dont think I'd change a thing.

very nice :cool: what was your E.S and S.D ? gotta love 2209 in the dirty 06 :yuush:
As above I wouldn't change anything on that load :redbullsmiley:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

very nice :cool: what was your E.S and S.D ? gotta love 2209 in the dirty 06 :yuush:
As above I wouldn't change anything on that load :redbullsmiley:

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Hi @dannyb
Thinking about finding my velocity figures for you and your question joggged my memory. I had first shot this load a few weeks ago and I had those velocities recorded too. I will put the actual velocities below - there are only 6 - representing the total number of shots so far with this load. My Chronograph is a Caldwell ( Chinese cheapie ) and I doubt the level of accuracy it has. I tend to use the velocities as indications only, which for my purposes is good enough. I don't know how to calculate ES sorry so maybe you can do that yourself from these figures ...?? Any info will be only as good as the data from my chronograph and. as I say, I don't think it highly accurate. Even with the same load readings will vary from one session to the next.
I'm adding a pic below of the first 3 shot group with this load. The shot at left was partly a flyer. Sometimes I struggle a bit against my heart condition and I can't settle completely for bench shooting but I was also reacquainting myself with the Blaser trigger. It's very light and that shot went off a little before I expected it to. But today I was more composed which made the difference I think.
I adjusted the scope before shooting today to get the hits on target.

13.06 23 3065, 3036, 2980 fps
06.07.23 2970, 2987, 3009 fps

https://i.postimg.cc/FRNzYm5t/20230613-122059.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

Hi @dannyb
Thinking about finding my velocity figures for you and your question joggged my memory. I had first shot this load a few weeks ago and I had those velocities recorded too. I will put the actual velocities below - there are only 6 - representing the total number of shots so far with this load. My Chronograph is a Caldwell ( Chinese cheapie ) and I doubt the level of accuracy it has. I tend to use the velocities as indications only, which for my purposes is good enough. I don't know how to calculate ES sorry so maybe you can do that yourself from these figures ...?? Any info will be only as good as the data from my chronograph and. as I say, I don't think it highly accurate. Even with the same load readings will vary from one session to the next.
I'm adding a pic below of the first 3 shot group with this load. The shot at left was partly a flyer. Sometimes I struggle a bit against my heart condition and I can't settle completely for bench shooting but I was also reacquainting myself with the Blaser trigger. It's very light and that shot went off a little before I expected it to. But today I was more composed which made the difference I think.
I adjusted the scope before shooting today to get the hits on target.

13.06 23 3065, 3036, 2980 fps
06.07.23 2970, 2987, 3009 fps

https://i.postimg.cc/FRNzYm5t/20230613-122059.jpg

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don't get too hung up about your chrono accuracy, with optical type chrono's you will find the data is consistent for that session but depending on lighting conditions you may find variations from 1 session to the next, in short they are great for checking E.S (extreme spread difference between highest and lowest velocity in that session) and S.D (sectional density the spread above or below your average speed for that sesssion) but your best bet for confirming your actual velocity is drop so shoot at 100 yards then shoot at 200 or 300 and work out your velocity from the drop at those distances.
hopefully that info is helpful and I'm not bamboozling you. Took me ages to get my head around optical chrono's being consistent but not necessarily accurate :O_O:
so given your above figures:

13/06/23 session: E.S of 85fps and S.D of 42.5fps avg velocity 3027fps

06/07/23 session: ES of 39fps and S.D of 19.5fps avg velocity of 2988fps

what this shows is that upon studying the data your load is not particular stable showing quite a wide spread in velocity particularly in the 13/06 session, but that doesn't mean it wont shoot fantastic groups at 100yards
It may not matter much at 200yards or 300 yards so if this is your aim don't stress it. it really starts to make a big difference at extended ranges.
Try checking your ballistics at a range of say 600 or 700 yards and see what the drop difference is at your maximum and minimum velocities.
I'm not poo pooing your shooting or your work just putting a bit of context on it. When I work up a load especially for longer ranges I'm looking for the charge weight that gives the lowest E.S and S.D as this will mean the most consistent POI at longer ranges due to being much less variation in velocity. Once I find a good stable velocity charge weight I can then tune the group size by adjusting the seating depth. this kind of load development can be a little component hungry, but sometimes you just get lucky too.
I'm happy to explain this stuff further but I worry that I am making this very complicated and if you're not intending to shoot long range it's probably to a large extent irrelevant, but if you want to know more I'm happy to lead you down a very deep dark rabbit hole limited only by the depth of your pockets and sanity :D ..........Micky Duck will no doubt be along shortly to voice is dislike of chrono's and my load development complexity :D but it does have it's place depending on your intended goal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

S.D (sectional density the spread above or below your average speed for that sesssion)

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Point of correction, @dannyb... SD in this context stands for Standard Deviation, and relates to how tightly clustered the velocities are around the average. A good load should in theory have a lot of rounds with very similar velocities. The odd high or low velocity round would result in a larger extreme spread but not necessarily a large SD, which is why you should look at the two bits of information side-by-side. You generally need to shoot more than three rounds though to get an accurate SD for the load.

Sectional Density is the ratio of the projectile's weight to its transverse section. Long / heavy for calibre = high SD = more penetration.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mopheadrob

Point of correction, @dannyb... SD in this context stands for Standard Deviation, and relates to how tightly clustered the velocities are around the average. A good load should in theory have a lot of rounds with very similar velocities. The odd high or low velocity round would result in a larger extreme spread but not necessarily a large SD, which is why you should look at the two bits of information side-by-side. You generally need to shoot more than three rounds though to get an accurate SD for the load.

Sectional Density is the ratio of the projectile's weight to its transverse section. Long / heavy = high SD = more penetration.

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quite right.....bloody Night shift :O_O: I knew what i meant.....cheers for that :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dannyb

don't get too hung up about your chrono accuracy, with optical type chrono's you will find the data is consistent for that session but depending on lighting conditions you may find variations from 1 session to the next, in short they are great for checking E.S (extreme spread difference between highest and lowest velocity in that session) and S.D (sectional density the spread above or below your average speed for that sesssion) but your best bet for confirming your actual velocity is drop so shoot at 100 yards then shoot at 200 or 300 and work out your velocity from the drop at those distances.
hopefully that info is helpful and I'm not bamboozling you. Took me ages to get my head around optical chrono's being consistent but not necessarily accurate :O_O:
so given your above figures:

13/06/23 session: E.S of 85fps and S.D of 42.5fps avg velocity 3027fps

06/07/23 session: ES of 39fps and S.D of 19.5fps avg velocity of 2988fps

what this shows is that upon studying the data your load is not particular stable showing quite a wide spread in velocity particularly in the 13/06 session, but that doesn't mean it wont shoot fantastic groups at 100yards
It may not matter much at 200yards or 300 yards so if this is your aim don't stress it. it really starts to make a big difference at extended ranges.
Try checking your ballistics at a range of say 600 or 700 yards and see what the drop difference is at your maximum and minimum velocities.
I'm not poo pooing your shooting or your work just putting a bit of context on it. When I work up a load especially for longer ranges I'm looking for the charge weight that gives the lowest E.S and S.D as this will mean the most consistent POI at longer ranges due to being much less variation in velocity. Once I find a good stable velocity charge weight I can then tune the group size by adjusting the seating depth. this kind of load development can be a little component hungry, but sometimes you just get lucky too.
I'm happy to explain this stuff further but I worry that I am making this very complicated and if you're not intending to shoot long range it's probably to a large extent irrelevant, but if you want to know more I'm happy to lead you down a very deep dark rabbit hole limited only by the depth of your pockets and sanity :D ..........Micky Duck will no doubt be along shortly to voice is dislike of chrono's and my load development complexity :D but it does have it's place depending on your intended goal.

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Thanks @dannyb . Yes, I know very long range hunters shooters delve into this ES & SD data and I basically comprehend the implications on bullet dynamics and how this all ties in with adjustable scopes etc. for sure long range hits. My self imposed longest shot is 400 yds or a smidge further, on game. If more distant I will try stalking closer. Some time ago I decided the very long range scene just wasn't my thing, and I'm not disparaging those guys who do participate. They have to cultivate certain skills that I would rather not. So, if you don't mind, I think I will steer well clear of that rabbit hole you mention.
My SOP after finding a load with apparent potential is to shoot it at 200, 250, 300 and 400 yds looking at accuracy, consistency and drop. If it ticks all the boxes it goes into the record and gets used for hunting. Any failure at critical points means it gets scratched and I start all over again. Most of my scopes have holdover bars on the reticle. When shooting keeper loads at those distances above I make a little sketch of the reticle and draw the impact points on the diagram for future reference to know where to hold for longer shots. That works for me and is about as complicated as I want to get.
I know my Chronograph is crap but my simple requirements make it useful nonetheless. I'm glad I have it.
Appreciate your comments. Although probably not greatly relevant to my needs it's still good to learn something.