Cartridge advice 2.0 - the 7mm version

Hey peeps a I posted a thread a while back asking for some cartridge advice (https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....estions-77490/). Got a lot of great responses and food for thought. After spending some time with a ballistic calculator I settled on the moderate-high powered 7mm's, 7mm WSM, 280 AI, 7mm Rem Mag. I prefer the WSM and AI to the Mag, as they burn a bit less powder for similar results. I prefer the aesthetics of the WSM case to the AI, I think those short fat rounds just look hilarious. But I also don't think any of these reasons are sufficient to pick one cartridge over another. I had also considered a 7mm 300 WSM, for better brass availability but I think that would mean a custom rifle build which I'm not ready for yet. Also I'm not sure how advanced down sizing brass necks is on ones reloading journey. Not interested in the 7mm RUM.

After looking at factory ammunition availability and options I've come to the conclusion I'll probably have to start reloading eventually. So...is one of these cartridges going to be better for a novice hand loader? Is there going to be better availability of brass for one of these? I get the feeling poking around the internet that the WSM is on the way out, so long term brass availability could be a problem? There does seem to be broader factory rifle availability in the Mag. Does a belted cartridge introduce any complications? Is there some subtly that I've missed by only looking at the ballistics? I do appreciate the long action/short action difference, likewise magazine capacity.

Whole lot of questions I know, so thanks for any time/thoughts you can share.

P.S. my approach on the ballistics was to beat the 6.5 CR by at least 20% on range the projectile drops below 1800fps, 20% less drop at 500m and have 20% less wind deflection at 500m. So I am aiming to push a 139gr Mono at ~3100fps, according to the Barnes load data this is achievable with all the cartridges I've mentioned. I'll probably also develop a load for distant steel using something heavier with a lead core.

7wsm is hard to find brass for, unless things have changed markedly. Everyone has 7mm mag brass and is real easy to load for, heaps of factory ammo. 280ai has some brass available, but it can be made if you need to.
I had a 7mm mag for about 10years, loved it. It was a hammer with 162 grain projectiles. I’ve still got a 7mm but now a 7x65R.

Can't help you with some of your questions,
I would hardly suggest that the wsm "is on the way out" the 7mm 300wsm was never huge and wouldn't be my first choice anyway.
The WSM case in itself is certainly not going anywhere, if you did you go down the wsm route I would suggest a standard 300wsm as it is far more popular and factory ammo whilst expensive is available.
Brass in standard wsm cartridges (270wsm/300wsm) is definitely going to be available for the foreseeable future.
Whatever you choose I would be cautious about any cartridge in 7mm/284 in the current climate as pretty much anything 7mm is almost impossible to obtain.
I suppose things in the supply chain will settle down eventually.
Of all the calibers suggested probably the most mainstream would be 7mm rem mag and probably the easiest to get factory ammo, and having owned one they just work and there are some pretty sweet semi custom rigs able to be bought off the shelf in this chambering without the need for a full on custom build.
As far as reloading well that's a whole other rabbit hole, but for a learner I would suggest that buying/building something that you can buy factory formed brass for would the best option.
Anyway it's all up to you in the end and variety is the spice of life.

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Originally Posted by dannyb

Can't help you with some of your questions,
I would hardly suggest that the wsm "is on the way out" the 7mm 300wsm was never huge and wouldn't be my first choice anyway.
The WSM case in itself is certainly not going anywhere, if you did you go down the wsm route I would suggest a standard 300wsm as it is far more popular and factory ammo whilst expensive is available.
Brass in standard wsm cartridges (270wsm/300wsm) is definitely going to be available for the foreseeable future.

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Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant the 7mm WSM seems less available in terms of factory rifles, factory ammunition and brass, but maybe that is the supply chain right now. That was why I was half considering the 7mm 300 WSM, allows me to use the more available 300 WSM brass.

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Originally Posted by tnankie

Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant the 7mm WSM seems less available in terms of factory rifles, factory ammunition and brass, but maybe that is the supply chain right now. That was why I was half considering the 7mm 300 WSM, allows me to use the more available 300 WSM brass.

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Why not just use a 300wsm and have way more options for pill choice ?

What do you intend on hunting and what is your practical hunting/shooting range?

I would bide my time and buy a 7 saum second hand when one comes up. I have not owned one, but looking at the same sort of options as yourself for a while, the Saum is the best pick for performance / recoil / accuracy and ability to build and use on a light platform in all situations.

I have hunted/reloaded the:
708
7wsm
7 rem mag
7saum - current

I think first it's worth considering action length which effects rifle weight for hunting. In a Tikka it doesn't mater as they all the same length actions

If you are not going to reload and not concerned about a long action rifle then the 7 rem Mag is the winner- plenty of options in factory ammo
IMO.... reloading is more expensive due to all the tooling. Also takes up room and time.

The 7wsm was a great accurate cartridge. One thing I had problems with was bumping back the shoulder could take several goes. The Winchester brass I was using could of been the problem. Annealing may of helped.

The 7mm saum I am impressed with as it will do everything the 7wsm and 7rm will do but in a smaller package. So less recoil and less powder burnt, also good quality brass available. Will fit a short action but no advantage to me as shooting a Tikka.
So this is my pick if you are going to reload.

One last consideration is the 708.
Plenty of availability and will happily knock a red over out at 500 yards.

Don't get hung up on the ballistic calculators. Any of the above cartridges will do the same job with a laser range finder and a dial up scope

Just to confuse the matter... 300 wsm and 6.5 prc are another good option with factory ammo available

7mm rem mag

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Originally Posted by Gkp

What do you intend on hunting and what is your practical hunting/shooting range?

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Sambar in Victoria, needs to be at least .270 130gr legally. So the 6.5 PRC is out.
Secondary target is goats at 500-700m which again is out of the creedmoors reach with monos. (Paddock shooting, no cover to get closer but has good backstops. This is where the ballistic advantages of the 7mm monos over the 300 monos comes in, particularly with wind drift, unless I go a 300 PRC which I then have to lug that monster through the bush for Sambar.)
7-08 is out as its just not different enough to my 6.5 Cr for me to justify it...I suppose I could sell the Creed.

I'll have a look into the SAUM, thanks.


Yes I get it I should probably get a 9.3x Xmm for sambar/bush and then something .300 maglike for long range targets + goats....but I'm trying to do it with one gun.

Dunno about in Australia but a very quick internet search shows at least four or five retailers in NZ with 7wsm brass and/or factory ammunition in stock so I don’t know where the whole “it’s difficult to find brass” thing comes from, get yourself 50 brass or a couple boxes of factory ammunition and you’re set for a heap of shooting and have the factory cases to reload after if you went that way.

The 7mm SAUM is used by target shooters in Australia.
The gunsmith who built my .280ai suggested it as an option.
.284 and
284ai are also used by target shooters. The cartridges are supported here you may need to ship around.
I think the 7mm SAUM uses the larger boltface but otherwise no problem.
You might find factory ammo in some places. Once you are handloading you will be fine.
7mm SAUM is somewhat standard. Others like .284 Shehane, 7mmSAW may require custom dies.

7mmSAUM might give you a short fat case you like and still be available. I was just sold on .280a.i. and didn't consider others but you have a different perspective and the SAUM might conform to that.

Seems like a troll thread IMO :o

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Originally Posted by caberslash

Seems like a troll thread IMO :o

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Why is that?

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

7mm rem mag

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By far the easiest and most sensible option all-round, buy a 7mm Rem Mag, I have a fair few rifles in various chamberings, big and small. I love my 7mm SAUM, but you cannot buy factory rifles chambered for it anymore and you cannot buy factory ammo for it either, handloading is a must.

Just buy a 7 RM and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by tnankie

Hey peeps a I posted a thread a while back asking for some cartridge advice (https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....estions-77490/). Got a lot of great responses and food for thought. After spending some time with a ballistic calculator I settled on the moderate-high powered 7mm's, 7mm WSM, 280 AI, 7mm Rem Mag. I prefer the WSM and AI to the Mag, as they burn a bit less powder for similar results. I prefer the aesthetics of the WSM case to the AI, I think those short fat rounds just look hilarious. But I also don't think any of these reasons are sufficient to pick one cartridge over another. I had also considered a 7mm 300 WSM, for better brass availability but I think that would mean a custom rifle build which I'm not ready for yet. Also I'm not sure how advanced down sizing brass necks is on ones reloading journey. Not interested in the 7mm RUM.

After looking at factory ammunition availability and options I've come to the conclusion I'll probably have to start reloading eventually. So...is one of these cartridges going to be better for a novice hand loader? Is there going to be better availability of brass for one of these? I get the feeling poking around the internet that the WSM is on the way out, so long term brass availability could be a problem? There does seem to be broader factory rifle availability in the Mag. Does a belted cartridge introduce any complications? Is there some subtly that I've missed by only looking at the ballistics? I do appreciate the long action/short action difference, likewise magazine capacity.

Whole lot of questions I know, so thanks for any time/thoughts you can share.

P.S. my approach on the ballistics was to beat the 6.5 CR by at least 20% on range the projectile drops below 1800fps, 20% less drop at 500m and have 20% less wind deflection at 500m. So I am aiming to push a 139gr Mono at ~3100fps, according to the Barnes load data this is achievable with all the cartridges I've mentioned. I'll probably also develop a load for distant steel using something heavier with a lead core.

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Honestly sounds like you been reading on the internet.

Forget barns bullets if you want to beat the wind (forget drop if your dialing it dosnt matter) they have the bc of a brick

A sleek high bc bullet at medium speed will smoke a fast light bullet everytime.

7rm will do everything with 162eldm or x and is easy to shoot i had one with 20" barrel and dpt can was great all rounder.

Is anyone here reasonably able to get the O.P behind one of these rifles?

I think he is considering some of the carriages above as being lower recoil alternatives to the 7mmRM.

Myself I have a .280ai and .300wm , both Tikkas but the .280ai is maybe up to 1kg lighter than the .300wm as it's all lightweight configuration as compared to the .300wm Laminated Stock with a Heavier scope , heavier mounts.

Honestly of he can get behind something it will give him actual experience with a given combination. Over the bench perceived recoil seems way more than a shot fired hunting.

The only 7mmRM I ever used was fitted with a supressor (South Africa)

A supressor won't be an option for him in Australia.

I have a love/hate relationship with my 7mmWSM.

New brass is too expensive for me, but I've scraped together enough once-fired to get going with. You can neck up from 270WSM or down from 300WSM but you have to fire-form it due to the different shoulder length.

Love the short action, but the steep shoulder makes chambering a bit fussy which kinda defeats the purpose.

7mm is great for high BC pills, but the mag length makes it impossible to seat these out to the lands. I run two loads, a soft point in the mag and ballistic tip for single-feeding at longer ranges.

7RM is probably a better choice, but everyone has one ;)

With the current supply issues I'd have a look around and see what brass, dies (or ammo) and rifles you can actually get for each. Then just pick the one you can get cause they'll all do the same thing as far as deer are concerned.

If you're definitely going to use monos then take a look at some of the 30 cals. The .300wsm in factory form is pretty close to some on your list.

Finding factory loaded monos would probably be the hardest part? I imagine the US would have plenty but maybe not so much nz and aus . That’s a guess though not an educated one either

@tnankie

Why are you selecting Barnes for this kind of shooting? Even with the LRX you will find that the mono metal swaged bullet will deliver limited expansion at 500-700m on light framed, thin skinned animals like goats, fallow, especially if you get a double lung shot behind the shoulder which is a distinct possibility (these bullets have shit BC and are a bastard in the wind).

Barnes are better on the heavy framed / thick skinned sambar but you are still looking for trouble at proper long range due to the BC and the rate at which these bullets shed velocity and therefore energy.

Reading your first post again you seem set on longer range hunting, to that end there are numerous much better jacketed lead core bullets that will kill much, much better.

Tnankie,
Given your in Australia and chasing Sambar or Fallow are your main deer species you want a .30 cal to cover both.

A 7mm mag is ok but a .30-06 or .30 mag is what you want.

Unless I’m wrong your just starting out so keep it simple and learn a bit as you go. Unless you’re more experienced than your posts read grab a 06 or factory 30 mag.


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