Is "case sizing" a requirement when reloading 12 gauge hulls ?

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20-05-2021, 06:03 PM
Kiwi Sapper

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Is "case sizing" a requirement when reloading 12 gauge hulls ?

Sorry if my Title seems weird, but I face a problem with reloading a slab of Rio hulls with 1 inch brass bases and both my MEC 600 Junior and Lee Load-all have a problem with not releasing the hulls with a longer metal base. Because the metal base is longer than normal, the metal sizing ring will not separate from the hull after sizing, leaving the metal sizing ring still firmly around the the hull's metal base.

Attachment 168129

i have to remove the hull from the reloader, place the hull and metal sizing ring into a vice, tighten on the ring and then drive the hull off the ring with a shaft and hammer. I note that the Rio cardboard boxes are marked as "Unsuitable for Reloading" and wonder if this is the reason why they are so marked.

Are there fittings available to cope with the longer brass or, as the hulls after reloading will be used in the same gun which fired them, then as with brass centre fire cases, resizing is not necessary?
20-05-2021, 06:10 PM
zimmer

Don't remember my Lee doing that with the hulls I used and they were high brass hulls.
Would a bit of lube help? I don't remember lubing though.
Is the "brass" even brass anymore?

As you said in finishing, if they still nicely fit the gun after firing do they need sizing.
20-05-2021, 06:39 PM
Kiwi Sapper

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmer

Don't remember my Lee doing that with the hulls I used and they were high brass hulls.
Would a bit of lube help? ..............

Nope. The sizing ring has been moved as far as the Lee moves it. You can see from the red hull that if it the sizing ring had been used on that, it would be clear of the metal base.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zimmer

........Is the "brass" even brass anymore?.

Nope. If they were, then latter day inventions such as this "pick up stick"

Attachment 168130

would not have been invented.
20-05-2021, 08:05 PM
gundoc

You shouldn't be reloading anything other than one-piece plastic cases if you value your shotgun. All of the cheaper cartridges use multi-component cases (base wad, case tube, and brass-plated steel base). Reloading requires the resizing of the metal base to ensure correct chambering. This causes a loss of pressure that holds the case together, frequently resulting in the base wad coming loose and lodging in the bore after firing. Subsequent shots cause barrel bulges which can be viewed as rings in the bore after cleaning (Cleaning? What's that?). These bulges are often fairly minor in some heavy-barreled guns, and much more major in lighter barreled guns, but bulges nonetheless. I have seen many guns with multiple bulges from reloading cheap cases. Every bulge stretches and weakens the barrel, ruining the gun and making it worthless.
21-05-2021, 08:28 AM
Marty Henry

I reload some 12 gauge from time to time mostly for black powder. I use to use winchester aa cases and when they ran out started to use the short base empties from target products trap loads.
Resizing has never been an issue and probably isn't needed except for a semi. Try a fired shell in the gun you want to reload them for if it fits easily and extracts no problem just run the resizing bie far enough to deprime and uniform the petals.
21-05-2021, 09:55 AM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

To remove stuck cases, place a set of long nose pliers above the rim and tap down on pliers with a soft hammer while still in the press.

Look again at the examples of metal base lengths on the hulls in the image and you will realise that It is not a "stuck" hull scenario. The location of the sizing ring on the blue hull, as positioned by the reloader is the normal position it should be and were it a red hull it would not be a problem.

This positioning happens on every long metal base hull and Thank you for your suggested remedy, but were I to adopt that, it would have to be part of every reload for a long metal base hull.
21-05-2021, 10:35 AM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

I reload some 12 gauge from time to time mostly for black powder......

@Marty Henry SNAP......In my case for the damascus hammer gun. VERY NEXT On my "to do" list is to reload a conventional 1 1/4 load of #4, the cup part of a WAA 12 plastic wad, a lube soaked fibre wad and 2 1/2 drams of FFg B.P. as a subsonic experiment for the Sulun Tac 12 / A-Tec A12 silencer combo.

I have no expectations for the Sulun to cycle, as my interest is with getting subsonic and less BANG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

..........Resizing has never been an issue and probably isn't needed except for a semi.........

Sadly the long case hulls are for my semi. :>( Only consolation is they were bought just for the recommended heavy load "running in" period, so it seems I'll just have to junk the used hulls.

"You interest me strangely"....Why do you say "except for a semi"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

........... Try a fired shell in the gun you want to reload them for if it fits easily and extracts no problem just run the resizing bie far enough to deprime and uniform the petals.

Sounds like a plan......... WILCO.
21-05-2021, 10:46 AM
Kiwi Sapper

[QUOTE=gundoc;1162234]You shouldn't be reloading anything other than one-piece plastic cases if you value your shotgun.........../QUOTE]

Thank You..........."I hear and obey."
@gundoc Is there a supplier of unused one piece hulls or (as i expect) if not, can you please identify some 12 g one piece loaded hulls?
21-05-2021, 11:01 AM
gundoc

[QUOTE=Kiwi Sapper;1162440]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gundoc

You shouldn't be reloading anything other than one-piece plastic cases if you value your shotgun.........../QUOTE]

Thank You..........."I hear and obey."
@gundoc Is there a supplier of unused one piece hulls or (as i expect) if not, can you please identify some 12 g one piece loaded hulls?

All of the major gun shops used to sell bulk new primed Winchester compression formed plastic cases and they were fairly inexpensive. Older trap shooters may still have some under their workbench. GC and Reloaders Supplies would be worth trying. Note that the Winchester 'Bushman' 12 ga. ammo uses the cheap style cases which should not be reloaded.
21-05-2021, 02:33 PM
madjon_

2 Attachment(s)

PM your Addy.there's a hundred in here.
I've still got a couple.
21-05-2021, 02:50 PM
Marty Henry

I believe a semi can lead to bulged shells as the extraction starts when there is still a small amount of pressure in the bore. No problem for a proper brass case but shotgun shells being plastic are marginally stronger than an industrial strength condom and the brass washed steel bases of most take little effort to dent.
Now you interest me, reading your post i take it as your intent to load some bp subsonic loads for the semi, or that's how it reads to me with my readin skills learnt from skool .
Please post or message me when you intend a test run, I would love to see how it goes.
21-05-2021, 11:25 PM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by madjon_

PM your Addy.there's a hundred in here. I've still got a couple.

@madjon_ Wow, that is excellent and most kind. PM sent.
22-05-2021, 08:12 PM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamsav

...............My mec had a shell holder that held the shell to the base plate and when the handle was raised it pulled the resizer clear of the crimp let alone the brass. I can only think your press aint right somehow.

What Ho @Hamsay

In my original post I did name my loaders and if you Google for images, you will see that my MEC modellacks a hull holder on the base plate to hold the hull whilst the upward motion clears the hull from inside the sizing ring. I did, as an image of my problem use the Lee Load-all which uses a pusher on the sizing ring as a clear example but as we can see , that does not "push" enough to clear the ring from high brass

Perhaps you may have a different MEC model.
22-05-2021, 09:45 PM
Micky Duck

pretty sure your black powder will root your suppressor quick smartly...clog it up for 1 and corrode for another...
you COULD try your long brass case through the whackamole????
using whackamole I had issues with shells origonally fired in my single barrel ,it seemed to have larger chamber than the other guns and reloaded shells were tight to chamber....
cheddite hulls cheap enough to buy new (in same state as ones shown,primed) and 50-70% of pick up shells at local gun club will also be cheddites....12*12* on brass head and ribs along outside of case...look at just about any load out of target products.eg falcon and it will be a cheddite hull.
27-05-2021, 08:42 PM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

pretty sure your black powder will root your suppressor quick smartly...clog it up for 1 and corrode for another.....

What Ho Micky. Yes that worrying thought had occurred to me BUT, the Norwegian A-Tec suppressor only has two bolts holding it together and I have already found once I have "cracked" (literally( them i can easily disassemble, wash, dry and re assemble it. So, as long as I am vigilant, not a problem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

.....you COULD try your long brass case through the whackamole????.........

Good point.......As my reloading is always low experimental / just for fun / wonder what will happen numbers, I will try that with the next reloads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

.......cheddite hulls cheap enough to buy new (in same state as ones shown,primed)......

They may be for you but the only supplier I can find to date of unloaded or just primed cheddite hulls is in your island and will not ship to u s "Up North". Further, Cheddite is not the only concern as i have taken heed of the advice in this thread and for the Turkish will only re- load one piece hulls. Madjon_ has very kindly supplied me with some of his stock "MY THANKS @madjon_ " which with care will last me for a while.

For Black powder, my stocks of "once fired' will definitely last my life time .
27-05-2021, 08:47 PM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

The Mec 600 doesn't have a shell holder. It relies on the primer punch camming the shell out on the up stroke. If it's not adjusted right long brass will stick. But a set of long nose pliers and a soft hammer pops them out in about two seconds. As mentioned earlier.

Yes, @7mmwsm I did mention that point in my post to Hamsav.

I have "fiddled" with the MEC 600's limited amount of adjustment but either got it wrong or yet to find an appropriate setting. However, now that you have raised the point, I will return to "the scene of the crime" and see if I can find an appropriate setting.

Your suggestion of long nosed pliers and soft hammer has been tried but I suspect that the Turkish has a larger chamber than normal which, it being based on a military model is to be expected and the discharged hulls are definitely larger and harder to force out of the MEC's resizer. So much so that I fear damaging the MEC, so that is a "non go.'
27-05-2021, 10:34 PM
Kiwi Sapper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

................Now you interest me, reading your post i take it as your intent to load some bp subsonic loads for the semi, or that's how it reads to me with my readin skills learnt from skool .Please post or message me when you intend a test run, I would love to see how it goes.

Currently using ADI AP 70n and have managed success with 14 grains for both subsonic and cycling the Turkish..........But not able to repeat it since...Will keep in touch @Marty Henry when I have found out how to repeat it and have moved onto B.P............... for a giggle.