Smallest i've gone is 308 sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
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Smallest i've gone is 308 sorryQuote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
Mainly interested to avoid barrel leading.
Couple of beginners Qns.
Can you use any brand or colour of powder coating powder?
A more difficult one, if I PC but don't GC, what sort (aprox) of speed and accuracy can I expect but still no leading?
I've never cast anything smaller than .3 a ,22 would be a couple of drops of lead and keeping the mold at temperature could be difficult. In reality you will be making somewhere between a .22 and .22 magnum velocity wise. Conventional wisdom says you will get to about 14-1500 fps without gas checks before you encounter leading and up to 2000 with gas checks possibly a bit more with a suitably hard alloy which will resist stripping at high speed especially in a fast twist barrel . Powder coat keeps the lead from contacting the bore so acts a bit like plating enabling higher velocity. Gas checking really just protects the base of the bullet from melting and I doubt its needed with powder coat.
I've cast a heap of 22 Cal bullets intending seriously testing them in my 22 Hornets.
All are powder coated
And gas checked because that is what the moulds were and I wanted to run them at a reasonable speed
Three different bullets
All are sized for consistency
Initial test results were disappointing in several known accurate 22 Hornets.
Then I got given a box of 1000 22 Hornet hollow point jacketed bullets and lost interest in cast small caliber cast bullets.
Below 30 caliber I'm not sure casting is such a good thing unless you have a very specific high volume use that cast lead is suitable for.
@Marty Henry @akaroa1
Thx for the help.
Think I will have a crack at PC for my 30.06 first. Have been casting for that for some time. Mainly just for plinking/practice. Then consider the 223 later.
Can you use any brand or colour of powder coating powder?
Can you use any brand or colour of powder coating powder?
Eastern
Light Ford blue coats best
Gray looks like lead but doesn't coat as well
So gray mixed with white looks good and coats reasonably well
But Ford light blue is the very best
Don't ask me why
But it is
Commercial PC bullets from Hawke River Bullet Company, sold here by Delta Mike, are rated to 2200fps without GC..whether they are accurate at that velocity would be a different matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
Most of the commercial cast bullets are as hard as hellQuote:
Originally Posted by Jhon
They won't do anything on an animal except hole in and hole out
Made hard and PC to be pushed hard and fast
Sub optimal for hunting
Delta Mike site -Quote:
Originally Posted by akaroa1
"HRBC uses a high performance dry lubrication on all projectiles. Only Certified “Virgin Bullet Alloy” not recycled, is used in the production process of HRBC projectles, giving pistol calibers a rated hardness of #7 Saeco scale or #16 Brinell Hardness Scale"
Have the same for e.g. 303 Cal
@akaroa1
Thx. Just the sort of info I'm after.
Green is the new blackAttachment 258707
The cool blue is good too.
Attachment 258708
Eastwood
I can barely get my gas checks on when they're raw.
I just clip em on before 1st sizing. It doesn't react with the powder so I stopped even wiping the powder off the bottom
Love that huge hollow point.Quote:
Originally Posted by 338MAN mk2
The big hollow ensures a big hole at subsonic speeds.
The mold has 3 nose pins to make a big hollow 330gr, a shallow hollow 350gr and a 360gr flat nose.
I think the 350gr cup point shallow hollow will be good for moderately super speeds.
The 330gr hp is giving up a bit of paper figures smack at subsonic but has an advantage of needing less powder to push it and then has less noisy gas. Surprisingly quiet out of a suppressor
I was given about 300 GC'd 224 lubed bullets. 54gr IIRC.
I tried them in my 223 with 7.0gr AS50n. 7.5gr works well with jacketed bullets for close work. But these cast ones were all over the target. I figure it's because they are fairly soft.
So, thinking try again with abt 5gr AS50n to slow them down.
I figure will be about 1600fps.
But will I need a filler?
If so, any suggestions?
Any other suggestions?
1600fps is still approaching the upper limit for gas checks and way too fast for lead, even hard alloy, so they are probably stripping in the bore. You need to get down to 22lr velocities in my opinion. No filler is needed
Yeh, I figure they will be stripping.
I'm just guessing the 1600fps.
No filler. Mmm,,sort of assumed with such light loads I would need it. Guessing the case will be less than half full if I went,,, say 4gr.
Just looked.
Lyman says, Green dot. 6.2gr 1855fps.
So, 6 is way too much.
I'll try 3gr & 4gr. I've never tried loads that low before.
Try them you'll like them. No filler is needed as the powder is readily ignitable and the flash from the primer is enough to start the projectile into the bore anyway. I think the idea came from making sure the powder was in close proximity to the primer which has been disproved. Possible detonation another reason given, is also evidently untrue. The filler if choice Dacron fibre melts and puts a microscopic later of itself on the bore. Ive never used fillers except with reduced black powder loads, that's usually just oatmeal and even that's probably not needed but the guy who taught me hand loading 50 years ago used it in his Snider's .
Red dot or similar speed powders are another option, slightly quicker than Green Dot...
Red dot and 700X are nearly as bulky as Trail Boss, the problem is the .222 and .223 cases are too big for subsonic loads just about any amount of powder
will be supersonic,
my Lyman cast bullet manual has a 54gr bullet 4.3 grains of 700X at 1510 fps and 4.7 grains of Red dot at 1590 fps in a .222 they are start loads
the case needs to be at least 50% full of powder to be safe,
plain lead without GC can handle up to 1400 fps the barrel needs to be super clean any copper will rip lead from the bullet.
Ok, great info.
The only fast powders I have are;
AS50n & Unique. Both pretty similar speed wise.
So,, filler is just an old wives tail?
And since they are fast should be ok to drop down to say, 3 or 4gr?
With cast bullets nearly everything is old wives tales and voodoo, unless it is stuff you have done personally doubt it,Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
drop your load in small increments like 2 tenths getting a stuck cast bullet out is not that hard but a jacket gunsmith only
Subsonic with jacketed is a waste of time unless using the new specially designed ones
Cast bullets are good hunting projectiles, at velocities from 1200 to 1800+, to get more power increase the bullet diameter
.30 cal is really the smallest to consider stepping up to .35-.38 is better with bullets 200 pus grains
Real hunting projectiles calibers start with a 5 and upwardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Tokoroa Cast Projectiles
If you must you can get away with calibers starting with .45
I am a cheap bugger minimum powder and lead expenditure to get the job doneQuote:
Originally Posted by akaroa1
I'm the opposite. Maximum aeration at all times is my objectiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Tokoroa Cast Projectiles
That the chest cavity has a sufficient hole that the hide can not seal it, is always my objective .
Sufficient is never sufficient for me
So you should be able to see through them as though there's a "window on their soul" is your thinking on the matter. Admirable
No real intention to use them for hunting. Perhaps a rabbit, that would be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokoroa Cast Projectiles
I have abt 300, intend to use them for plinking.
The case 50% full - is that a thing? Never heard that before, and the 9.5gr TB load I'm using with the 175gr Sub-X pills in the .308 is definitely not a 50% case full load???? I was of the impression that the fast powders like Red Dot, 700X and TB were position-insensitive and fast enough to not present a danger of too much surface area exposed to the primer's flame. The issue with the minimum loads as far as I was aware related to the slower powders with heavy deterrent coatings that needed to held back against the primer in a column to ensure that the powder was not lying flat on the bottom of the case exposing a lot more surface area to the primer's flame. I was of the thinking that the fast powders were basically all ignited near instantly in the loads we are working with for subs, and the danger was more a case of the near vertical pressure curve spiking too high too quickly and producing a dangerous amount of pressure near instantly, or a pill stuck in the barrel with insufficient pressure (not enough powder). It's the fine line game between not enough, and too much...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokoroa Cast Projectiles
I use the 50% as a safety measure with small cases and fast powder, I have had light charges barely get the projectile out of the barrel, the last one was a 7mm08 with a cast bullet developing a subsonic load I had a nice group at 50mQuote:
Originally Posted by No.3
the next load was 2 tenths of a grain lower the first shot bounced off the ground halfway to the target, I was using Trail Boss and started with Hogdgons recommended 70% full case and worked backwards, after experimenting quite a bit
50% is safe in .308 size cases, Red dot and 700X are almost as bulky as Trail Boss and make a good substitute, Yes the slower powders can be dangerous if loaded below the recommended minimum start load, though the "Secondary Explosive Event"
as it is called has never been replicated in a lab, but it is still considered real and does happen, the Hogdgon website has reduced loads listed for most popular calibres check them out it is very interesting, If looking for lighter recoil use the fastest powder
listed for the bullet you are shooting as long as the velocity is high enough to expand the bullet or use a lighter bullet.
Here's a really big random bullet.
Scored a very cool 500 cal paper patch, straight sided, Hollow base mould yesterday
Only marking is .500
Veerry well built.
Has cap screws so late 20th century my guess
Very big deep mould.
Attachment 267788
Sliding captive base plug and a very good piece of design and execution
Attachment 267788
Mould took a long time to get up to temperature and throw nice bullets.
By 40 bullets it was really doing the business
Attachment 267789
It throws a massive 700 grains pure lead !!!
And it measures .509" which is fairly big considering it still needs its paper patch.
Certainly a huge lump of a 50 cal and another bullet option in my ever increasing hoard of 50 / 500 cal rifles
But 700 grains in a sporting rifle would be quite a handful
Paper patching these or "powder patching" them?
Realistically don't know what to do with a 50 cal bullet that heavy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
I have 6 cartridge 50 / 500s and none would really need a 700 grainer
So there still might be a vintage 50 cal I need
I had 8 oz of Eastwood Super Gloss Clear powder coat arrive this morning.
I had read on line that it went on as a white powder and cooked to clear.
I'm looking for a traditional bullet look from PC
So I cast 120x 44 cal bullets
Attachment 268705
I put them through a sizer and then tried the Super Gloss Clear and it coats really nicely.
Attachment 268706
It cooked ti clear almost instantly when it went into the oven.
SGC PC looks great and is almost imperceptible from an uncoated bullet.
Attachment 268707
Will look perfect as a PC old school looking bullet
That's how bullets should look. Now I've got a toaster oven once you say they work as well as the blue I'll be away
@Marty Henry I will have to start charging for R-N-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
Just got this SPANZ 577-450 mould
Attachment 269232
Attachment 269233
Put a small pot through to just see how it casts and get a weight
Attachment 269234
Measures .463" and weighs 423 grain in pure lead
Now I have
Dies
SPANZ mould
Spanz brass
Magtech brass
Everything but a 577-450 sporting rifle
Beautiful, one of them but fark me they are heavy
