Casting for an SMLE

Hey Folks,

I have a couple of 1943 (or 1946, hard to tell) Lithgow No1Mk3*s, one of which had a full wood and hardware set, but a completely corroded bore, and the other that has a badly sportered stock but a perfect action and excellent bore. I am in the process of merging them into one good shooting condition rifle and will decide what to do with the leftovers another day.

I slugged the bore yesterday and then had the joy or figuring out how to measure a 5 groove slug. After some faffing around I had a groove diameter of 0.3183 from about 30mm past the throat and 0.3179 near the muzzle. I repeated the slugging and measuring a couple of times to make sure I wasn't screwing something up and got the same result each time. From the reading I have done, this is an extremely large bore for even an Enfield.

I have not shot this rifle yet and im assuming that factory ammo will likely shoot like crap from a large bore like this, so my plan is to make my own cutter to modify a single cavity lyman .284 mold I got for cheap from somewhere to something for this rifle.

I like the idea of something in the 180-200gr+ range doing 2000fps or more. I will powdercoat and gas check.
I plan to put holes in paper and 4 legged critters with this rifle.

Has anyone here done something similar? Any suggestions for a bullet design to copy to get me started?

The groove diameter is not overly significant if you are casting as the bullet will upset to the groove when it is fired. The bullet material displaced by the lands will swage into the grooves. A .312 bullet sizing die should work fine when you put on your gas checks and a liquid Alox lubricant applied. Powder coating should be avoided at all costs as it is plastic based and will melt onto the bore and cause all sorts of problems. I believe that you are seeing problems where none exist. Get a small supply of cast bullets from someone on this forum and try it out before you waste time and money. A new SMLE barrel usually goes .313" - .314" groove diameter.

Gidday -I wouldn't assume anything about how it shoots from a bore measurement alone. I'm not a Lee Enfield sort of guy, but I've got plenty of experience shooting Mausers and I can tell you they don't give a snoot about bullet diameter, all else being equal, my 319 bore 8x57 shoots 323 bullets sub MOA, and a converter "hybrid" with a full 311 bore shot .308 bullets just fine. I'd shoot it with what you have and see . . . .

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Originally Posted by Tentman

Gidday -I wouldn't assume anything about how it shoots from a bore measurement alone. I'm not a Lee Enfield sort of guy, but I've got plenty of experience shooting Mausers and I can tell you they don't give a snoot about bullet diameter, all else being equal, my 319 bore 8x57 shoots 323 bullets sub MOA, and a converter "hybrid" with a full 311 bore shot .308 bullets just fine. I'd shoot it with what you have and see . . . .

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I think you are correct about just trying some standard ammo and see. Fact is this is probably not going to get shot very often, and I'm not competing with it. Problem is I can't help but tinker with things.

grab some cast ones off shootersnz / Robert and TRY them at standard size and just see..you may be making things harder than need be.

First thing about Cast bullets is to forget what you already know . And then read this --

Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I think you are correct about just trying some standard ammo and see. Fact is this is probably not going to get shot very often, and I'm not competing with it. Problem is I can't help but tinker with things.

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Best bet are the NOE .314 or .316 210gn projectiles. Good molds. The other option are MP molds which are also awesome

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

Hey Folks,

I have a couple of 1943 (or 1946, hard to tell) Lithgow No1Mk3*s, one of which had a full wood and hardware set, but a completely corroded bore, and the other that has a badly sportered stock but a perfect action and excellent bore. I am in the process of merging them into one good shooting condition rifle and will decide what to do with the leftovers another day.

I slugged the bore yesterday and then had the joy or figuring out how to measure a 5 groove slug. After some faffing around I had a groove diameter of 0.3183 from about 30mm past the throat and 0.3179 near the muzzle. I repeated the slugging and measuring a couple of times to make sure I wasn't screwing something up and got the same result each time. From the reading I have done, this is an extremely large bore for even an Enfield.

I have not shot this rifle yet and im assuming that factory ammo will likely shoot like crap from a large bore like this, so my plan is to make my own cutter to modify a single cavity lyman .284 mold I got for cheap from somewhere to something for this rifle.

I like the idea of something in the 180-200gr+ range doing 2000fps or more. I will powdercoat and gas check.
I plan to put holes in paper and 4 legged critters with this rifle.

Has anyone here done something similar? Any suggestions for a bullet design to copy to get me started?

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Get in touch I have some .314" 210 grain cast if you want to try some

So you like to tinker @SixtyTen . . . well your going to love casting bullets.
the question is do you like doing the research . . if its Yes your halfway there, bad news is it will cost you in time and money, lots of it.
if its No you will be a 50 to 100 yard shooter who likes the easy option . . good news is you'll have lots of company.

Cast bullet reference on lead alloy's, min / max pressure, lube, shrinkage,
check these guys out as suggested . . also these guys
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/

look forward to finding out how you get on . . R

Im watching this thread with interest. Powdercoating is just a term for providing a polymer coating to a projectile The coating is a good deal harder than the lead and if done right will not leave a coating in your bore, will increase bullet diameter and is a good deal slipperier than a lubed bullet. Have a look at what Larry Gibson has to say on the castboolits website re RPM threshold. You have either a very good barrel rifled with a new and as yet unworn rifling cutter or a very worn barrel ,both will love cast. My suggestion is to make a casting of your throat and profile your boolit to fit. I have been casting for 303 for 49 years and powder coating for about 10 years. There are a number of members on this website that powdercoat with great success and produce some beautiful boolits. Good luck

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/arc.../t-208186.html

cheers @Driverman for the suggestion on Larry Gibson, he is well worth looking up . . i couldnt find it at castboolits, had to do a google.
i was'nt sure if Larry had been kicked off the site again, used to love his battles when i first joined and couldnt see why some took offence, he always made perfect sense to me.

I was reading some of his posts from yesterday and he is still writing very good well researched articles.

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

so my plan is to make my own cutter to modify a single cavity lyman .284 mold

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Would you consider swapping your 284 mold for a 312 mold fi I can find one?

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Originally Posted by winaa

Would you consider swapping your 284 mold for a 312 mold fi I can find one?

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Certainly would. I got my info wrong before however, the mold is actually a Lee 90360 - .285 130gr C285-130-R Single Cavity

I was given these cartridges plus a couple of more modern .303 rounds the other day by a friend of mine when I told him what I was working on at the moment. He thought they were pretty old, but didn't seem to know anything else.

A little research tells me the hollow point is most likely MkIV ammo, No idea how common these are, from what I can find they haven't been manufactured since 1897-8. Case head markings are "C" and "IV"

The other looks to be MkVII cupro-nickel jacket.

Im not that familiar with the history of the Enfield's or issued ammo, but it is quite interesting to learn about.

Attachment 186061


This is the rifle, assembled for some photos. I still have a bit of work getting the stock fit-up just right. I have done a bit of repair work to the stock and have done a light refinish to freshen it up a little.

Attachment 186062

You will find that .314" cast bullets shoot better than the smaller diameters, Not many .303 barrels are even close to .312" even new barrels are more likely to be 313"
The throats on them a worn from the cordite trying seat the bullet to touch the rifling is a waste of time seat the base of the bullet level with the base of the neck to give the bullet
good support, My mould casts bullets at .315" bullet I only have a .314" size die, If you want to get a mould order one that is .002" over groove diameter it will have to be a custom
order the usual mold makers don't do special orders, Or powder coat thebullets that adds about .002" .

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Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I was given these cartridges plus a couple of more modern .303 rounds the other day by a friend of mine when I told him what I was working on at the moment. He thought they were pretty old, but didn't seem to know anything else.

A little research tells me the hollow point is most likely MkIV ammo, No idea how common these are, from what I can find they haven't been manufactured since 1897-8. Case head markings are "C" and "IV"

The other looks to be MkVII cupro-nickel jacket.

Im not that familiar with the history of the Enfield's or issued ammo, but it is quite interesting to learn about.

Attachment 186061


This is the rifle, assembled for some photos. I still have a bit of work getting the stock fit-up just right. I have done a bit of repair work to the stock and have done a light refinish to freshen it up a little.

Attachment 186062

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Greetings @Sixty Ten,
You might want a collector to look at the hollow point cartridge. The Brits did make a hollow point 215 grain in the Calcuta Arsenal or it might just be a Mark VI that someone has hollow pointed. The pointy one is a Mark VII. Others will know more.
GPM.

I have been assembling components to load for this rifle over the last few days.

I ordered 50 210gr cast projectiles for a good price from Shooternz, and they showed up very quickly and look good.

Attachment 186169

I also dropped into gun city and bought some of the Greek brass they are selling. Some of it is pretty tragic, but it mostly looks good. It was the only 303 brass I could find in Auckland, so we will see how it goes. At $30 for 50, I'm not too fussed if it ends up in the bin. I de-primed all of them and found 4 that had heavily corroded primers. All the others looked fine, so given the current climate, I will use the original primers for initial testing.

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I also made a 303 case holder for my Wilson case trimmer. These are pretty easy to make so long as you get the compound slide on the lathe set just right for cutting the internal taper. I have made 5 or 6 now for various random cartridges I load for. Much better than spending $30 per holder.

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I am currently waiting on some sulphur to arrive so I can attempt a sulphur/graphite chamber cast. I am also going to order a Lee collet neck sizer + seater.

It's amazing how much crap you need for loading a new cartridge. I have several drawers full of reloading gear already and it just keeps on growing.

Any suggestions on powder for this load? I have AP100, 2205, 2206H and a little 2209 on hand and likely won't be getting anything else until the next powder shipment arrives in NZ. 2209 seems the best candidate to me.

my man,thankyou...you have solved a mystery for me as to what some bits Ive inherited are for and how they are used.....that photo is just what I needed to see LOL.
so I take it you trim to length...and can de burr inside n out just by changing cutter head for each operation?? or does cutter and handle slip through body and slip next one in??
might have to talk nicely to @RUMPY and he can fabricate up the missing bits LOL

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

my man,thankyou...you have solved a mystery for me as to what some bits Ive inherited are for and how they are used.....that photo is just what I needed to see LOL.
so I take it you trim to length...and can de burr inside n out just by changing cutter head for each operation?? or does cutter and handle slip through body and slip next one in??
might have to talk nicely to @RUMPY and he can fabricate up the missing bits LOL

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I think you can get case chamfering tools to fit in this, but I havent bothered. The length trimmer is pretty well fixed to the handle, but does slip out the back easily, so you might be able to sort out a couple more handles to put chamfering tools on.

I made myself a little handle for inside and outside deburring so its both tools in one "tool" basically just copied this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2t3nFYrJec

I have found it works really well once you get the feel for how much pressure to apply for each cutter. Certainly cuts down the time swapping tools and is also easier on the wrists than your standard handles.

My plan eventually is to try and re-grind a carbide cutter along the lines of the Giraud case trimmer to replace the cutter head on the Wilson so that it will length trim and inside and outside chamfer in one hit. Only downside is you need to set it up for each caliber every time you change. Wouldnt be worth it for general reloading, but I just processed around 2000 .223 cases, and have another 1000 to go, and any little gain pays off big when working through that many.

I usually just use LEE trim thingy that slips up guts of case to ensure it trims to correct length,then while still attached to cordless drill,do champher thing too.... quick n easy.

I ended up making my own copy of a Lyman M die as well as a 0.318 sizing stem. With my projectiles being around 0.3190 after powdercoating, there was no way they would seat in a standard sized neck. I am using a Lee collet die to size the neck and am finding it very useful for tidying up dented and crinkled necks. I then run them through my neck sizer die to open the neck out. The mandrel has a small step in it so the first 2mm of the neck is sized to be a slip fit for the projectile so you can place the projectile by hand and it starts nice and centered in the case
I still need to make a lock ring for the sizing stem adjuster and I may blue the whole thing to reduce rust. It's made to have interchangeable sizing stems, so one die body will work for most cartridges with just swapping the sizing stem.
Attachment 187687
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@SixtyTen the holow point looks like the original Dum Dum bullet (made in Dum Dum) must be a collector piece.

I have been playing around with a few different powdercoats. I only had Eastwood's Gloss Black until recently and have been getting pretty average results. I have also been struggling to keep the tall and skinny bullets standing up while moving the into the oven.

As such, I bought some Eastwood's Super Gloss Clear and Ford Light Blue to try as I have it on good authority that both these powders work well. I also purchased a silicon mini icecube tray off eBay which it just so happens has squares that are a little larger than 0.30.

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I was experimenting with dissolving the black powder in acetone and then dunking the projectile, letting the solvent flash off, and then dunking again. I got some decent coverage like this, however I also got some solvent pop on some that obviously had trapped solvent when baking. It is also a smelly and time consuming method.
The clear and blue were so much easier to get an even coating on. I think I will use the clear going forward as I like the look of as cast projectiles and you also can't see any of the paint defects.


I had loaded up a few rounds and tested them on the weekend.
The load was 210gr projectiles at 0.3190, 27.0gr ADR2205, and the original Greek primers. Simulator estimates 2000fps for this load.

I shot 4 rounds sitting at 100yds (grass was way too long for prone) and got a group of around 2.5". I have no idea of the velocity, but I had my sights set to 300yds at a guess and was shooting only a few inches high. This was not a very scientific test, but the projectiles and rifle show promise, so I will load a bunch more of this recipe and do some proper testing when I get a chance, I might bump the charge up a little, but should start to get close to 50kpsi at around 29-30gr, so don't want to push it too far.

Attachment 187766

Have you anything new to report?

You really don't want to or need to push cast bullets over 2000fps even with gas checks leading becomes a problem due to friction and heat.