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So depriming some 308 cases today that I have been given, I decided to use full length die, I had run half a dozen through with no problem.
Then I had a really tight case (see picture). Turns out the 7.62 case had a much tighter priming hole and not realising I inadvertently over tightened the collet holding the recapping pin and I have stripped the thread on the Lee die.
Next I will read the case first.
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You've invented a new wildcat.
Ribbed.
Bugger......at least its not some weird /obscure cartridge and you will be able to get replacement quickly enough.
A "tight priming hole" per se won't cause that. I suspect the depriming stem was too low and bottomed out of the web.
What I suspected. Alsi, that case looks as if it might have been forced too far into the die. The bottom edge of the shoulder looks "rounded". Is this definitely a .308W case ?Quote:
Originally Posted by 6x47
Has 7.62 on the head stamp.Quote:
Originally Posted by 30.06king
Sadly it has damaged the internal thread too it seems as I tried a cap from another die set and it won't screw in. Guess I will have to dig deep for a new set unless anyone knows of a single full length die for .308W anywhere.
wingman has one...have tagged you on it.
Carefull when you load those up as well. I had a modest uncompressed load and they have heavy bolt lift and had flattened primers. Tbf I won't bother with ex-mil 7.62 brass in future.
7.62 headstamp possibly suggests military brass, meaning some possibility also of Berdan primed ( I think some older European military ammo still in circulation is Berdan primed ). I hope that was checked ...? Seeing the pic better on my PC ( rather than phone ) something weird happened to your brass in the die. There should not be a doughnut at the base of the neck, and, as I mentioned the lower shoulder edge is rounded rather than sharply angled. To me it appears you've attempted to FL size a case longer than a standard .308W Any possibility it might be a 30.06 case ... ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Jack
I agree that it looks like a new die is required.
Can't be 30.06. The difference in length is too obvious.
But does look like it was too long for the die.
Could it be 7.65×53mm Mauser?
Greetings,
The case is marked 7.62 and it appears to be the right length (or thereabouts) but it is also likely military. Additional to the possibility of a Berdan primer the military cases are much heavier (and thicker) than most commercial cases and can be quite hard. The Lee dies are prone to the decapper/ expander being driven back when sizing and consequently are overtightened. I can't tell from the photo if it is a ridge from a collapse of the neck or just a step from incomplete sizing of the thick neck. The cases need to be checked and sorted by head stamp and if possible lot and any odd balls culled. The heavy case may just be the last straw that broke the camels back.
Regard Grandpamac.
Usually the decapping rod will ride up, to strip the thread it must have be really tightened, also suspect you have broken the decapping pin.
There is a lot of South African mil fmj ammo that is hot, meant for machine guns, a mate had heaps of it, don’t shoot well , anyway it is Berdan primed. Came across 556 mil ammo recently the primers were full circle heavily crimped, some came out, a lot I binned.
@Oldbloke Agreed, too short to be 30.06 brass. I also think this case was too long for the die. I'm guessing the case neck is too long ... ?? Looks to me as if the case mouth hit a stop inside the die and when the OP forced the press handle down all the way it has pushed the neck down onto the shoulder, forming that doughnut / ridge and also pushed the shoulder back as well, rounding off the normal sharp angle. Would be interesting if the OP could measure a fired case and compare that to max length in a Reloading Book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbloke
What do you think @Oldbloke @grandpamac , would my theory hold water ?
Ive done that with a 6.5x55 die that was set incorrectly, nice ring around the base of the neck, the decapping pin ride up though, as they should.
So, possibly the basic problem here is just that the die is screwed too far into the press ... ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by 30.06king
I went out to the shed and pulled apart the only set of Lee dies here. I could see no evidence of any stop within the die that would cause a problem, the bit that sizes the neck opens up to a larger dia above and into the recess for the locknut. The locknut seemed to be well clear of the case even an overlength case. I think it was just a problem of thick and hard brass of the military case. The ridge that we can see is just where the sizing stopped due to the resistance. Perhaps the sizing lube was not up to the job or there was not enough of it. As far as the stripping of the threads goes consistent over tightening to stop the expander assembly riding up may have aided its final demise. Making sure that both the outside and inside of the necks are clean and well lubricated plus annealed after each third load go a long way to avoiding problems. As mentioned earlier sorting any brass to get rid of rogue cases would help as well.
Regard Grandpamac.
Good effort on stripping the thread! Most of the lee stuff is built to be idiot proof. Obviously a faulty unit, contact Lee for a replacement.
I once split an RCBS trim die when resizing mil surp .308, i sent them a photo and they sent me a new one. Not bad for a second hand die i bought off here that was maybe 20 years old.
I have seen one where the whole top of the collet nut was broken off by over zealous tightening leaving the threaded section stuck in the die. The decapping rod never moved again.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnd
GPM.
I got them second hand, no idea how old they are and have sourced a replacement die the one that I need. Hoping that the main body can be retapped will know later. When double checking I found out of 80 cases 5 were 7.62 and had smaller flash holes than the 308 ones. Certainly not something I expected to find. None of those 5 were able to fit the decapping pin.
Will be very carefull when I get around to actually loading these. I don't use Hot loads anyway.
Do you trim your necks if they get too long?
well youve found your issue then...drill them out if want to use them..the last lot of .44magnum I did,PMC brass had half dozen primer flash holes off centre...had me stumped as the primers wouldnt come out and die jammed.... took a red neck solution to fix it.
If the cases are military and have been fired in something other than a bolt action rifle, perhaps a machine gun, wouldn't they come out extra long/over sized?
Is the solution to measure the case length, then trim to the correct trim (or maximum) length, then put the case through the (new) full length resizing die?
I know that is arse about face, but if the cases are massively over length, the top of the die will donut them every time.
I had a little adventure with some second hand Hornet brass a while ago which was hugely long, like 2.125 (or 2.225 I can't remember exactly), for a case with a trim length of 1.393 and max of 2.014. This is all from memory, I'm in the whare at the moment with no reference material. Sure the Hornet is a milk bottle shape with no real shoulder, so it's prone to stretching, but I couldn't work out how they could grow that much inside th chamber???
Yep the 5 7.62 are Berdan, brass was actually a though smaller to the neck than ones fired in my rifle. Been to see another member this evening and have a much better grasp. Thanks for everyone's input you never stop learning
Nearly been caught myself with Berdan primed brass. If you suspect any like that in future shine torch down the case neck first to check the flash hole / s in the bottom of the case. Two holes is Berdan, as you probably learnt today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Jack
Sorry about that, I didn't know they were Berdan primed
Yep, I think you're dead right. Thanks for going to the trouble of internally checking a disassembled die. Good to know for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Cheers
No worries mate, I think we all learnt something from the exercise, and it was only 5 so all good.Quote:
Originally Posted by 308
Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Jack
Older handloaders tend to forget that there was a time when most military cases encountered in NZ were Berdan primed. With .303 the difference was obvious with a larger primer dia. With 7.62 and 5.56 cases it was not so obvious and we would automatically peek inside the case to check if it was Berdan primed. These can often be reloaded but you need the correct primers. I have a batch of Berdan cases I deprimed hydraulically and some Berdan primers but have never got around to loading any.
In one of those quirks of history Boxer primers were developed by the English and Berdan primers in the US. The existence of Berdan primers and the need to clean rifle bores with boiling water after firing old military ammo seem to be two things that each generation needs to learn often the hard way.
Regards Grandpamac,
I had the task of making some 7.62 berdan primed ammo inert so that the owner could display it in linked belt. I pulled it all, reconfigured the charge added a 155 match bullet and shot it.
Then I ran the now "inert" cases through a lee collet die (it had no pin on the tip) and put the old military projectiles back in. The ES and SD were brilliant as was the accuracy due in large part to the consistant ignition of the twin hole brass.
It was a sad day when I ran out.