Does reducing the powder charge for a 12 gauge slug safely reduce projectile speed?

A friend I have loaded some 12 gauge slugs in the past has asked me to reduce the fps by about 400 fps.
Being a noobee, I assiduously followed the manufacturer's loading books instructions and am uncertain how to achieve this nor do I fully comprehend all the unfortunate side effects which may occur.

These are both sabot slugs (using a WAA 12 wad with trimmed petals.) Lyman 525 gr and Lee 1 oz which I have loaded according to these manufacturer's recommendations, being:

Lyman . Lymans 5 th edition Shotshell Reloading handbook page 380....28 grains AP70N 1400 fps
Lee. Loading instructions supplied with their Lee 1 oz slug mould.....29 grains AP70N 1450 fps

Please, there are three issues upon which I seek your advice / opinions...........and of course any extras you may feel necessary.

1...Will just reducing the powder load result in a slower slug speed? I would suspect so, but by how many grains to achieve the 400 fps speed reduction? I can of course do a range of powder loads but am uncertain of the range variation, i e three loads, starting first at 13 grains, then increase each by 3 grains
I realise that this is probably going to be subsonic but think that although not being told so, this is what he wants.

2...Will reducing the powder load be an invitation for severe loss of projectile speed and control? I would expect so if too much of a powder reduction was made. Is that inevitable when any reduction is made or is there a lower threshold before it becomes troublesome?
3...Apart from the possibility of a reduced powder load not completely emptying the barrel and leaving an obstruction within, what other are undesirable side effects could arise?

Your advice would be appreciated.

So you want to make sub-sonics? Waiting with great interest at the answers..

Reducing powder charge will naturally reduce velocity I sometimes make mouse fart loads ( 12gr 700x and 1 oz shot)for kids to use. They require some fiddling as the powder column is shorter and affects the overall length and have found them easiest to cut the petals off and roll crimp.
These are shot loads by the way and havnt been chronied but they have piss all recoil and sound like a champagne cork. As the weight of shot is the same as your slugs and the bearing area on the bore is approximately the same results should be similar.
It actually takes very little force to push a wad down the bore the choke being the only real constriction, I know this from experience but don't ask me how.

Reducing powder charge will naturally reduce velocity I sometimes make mouse fart loads ( 12gr 700x and 1 oz shot)for kids to use. Std load is 18 grains 700x so mimms calculation appears a good guide. They require some fiddling as the powder column is shorter and affects the overall length and have found them easiest to cut the petals off and roll crimp.
These are shot loads by the way and havnt been chronied but they have piss all recoil and sound like a champagne cork. As the weight of shot is the same as your slugs and the bearing area on the bore is approximately the same results should be similar.
It actually takes very little force to push a wad down the bore the choke being the only real constriction, I know this from experience but don't ask me how.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Reducing powder charge will naturally reduce velocity I sometimes make mouse fart loads ( 12gr 700x and 1 oz shot)for kids to use.............It actually takes very little force to push a wad down the bore the choke being the only real constriction, I know this from experience but don't ask me how.

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Interesting. Thank You and I'll add that to my information resource.

As for "don't ask", I won't but I fear I already know and that is one reason why the recipient of these outcomes is using a single shot ,break open 12 g.

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Have you actually chronied them?...........

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Nope, ain't got one so at this early stage just going by by the prescence or absence of the sonic crack.

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Originally Posted by mimms2

No issues unless he's poaching with it. Has he got a supressor?

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He ain't poaching, it just seems we have interests which over lap. We both have the Norwegian A 12

https://tinyurl.com/y529jocl


but will not be using it with slugs. Two reason, first because the accompanying literature says not to and second, so does Anders E. Johansen, the developer in reply to an email I sent to him.

Many thanks for the other observations about load, weight, instability, rifling etc. All now added to my resource base.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

Nope, ain't got one so at this early stage just going by by the prescence or absence of the sonic crack.




He ain't poaching, it just seems we have interests which over lap. We both have the Norwegian A 12

https://tinyurl.com/y529jocl


but will not be using it with slugs. Two reason, first because the accompanying literature says not to and second, so does Anders E. Johansen, the developer in reply to an email I sent to him.

Many thanks for the other observations about load, weight, instability, rifling etc. All now added to my resource base.

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URL fails to function.

What is a "Norwegian A12?"

Is a SG subsonic more accurate? Thinking, if a SG slug exits the bore subsonic, it won't experience subsonic-->transonic-->subsonic transition wobbles.

find a round ball of correct diameter...and be aware,and make sure to tell you mate...shotgun slugs BOUNCE like buggery if hit something hard,slowing them down will make it more so....many years ago I nearly shot myself with 12ga solid after shooting big ram through head inside a woolshed,the projectile went around the walls and rails and stopped on decking 12'' from my leg...needless to say didnt do it again...big rams are plurry hard work to tip over for a teenager,so shooting them first was humaine on us both.

if he knows how to clean gun...and looks after it...black powder would do it really easy as it wont be much above 1100fps now.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

if he knows how to clean gun...and looks after it...black powder would do it really easy as it wont be much above 1100fps now.

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He has that knowledge and more, however, I suspect he neither appreciates nor understands my interest in B.P. Just out of curiousity re the response, I will pass on your suggestion re B.P. use. Will have to choose the moment 'tho.

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Originally Posted by Finnwolf

URL fails to function.

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@Finnwolf You may have noted some "issues" being mentioned with Tiny url earlier in this thtread. Seems that they are still "happening", even as I bang away at the keyboard. Try this one

https://tinyurl.com/44x6h74e

which worked at the time of pasting it into this post. I ALWAYS test my pasted links, but if this also fails, then copy and paste this

https://www.a-tec.no/silencers

into the address field of your browser using "Paste and go"

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Originally Posted by norsk

What is a "Norwegian A12?"

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A lazy and totally incorrect "Kiwi" naming of one of your countryman's products.

This stupid boy dropped the - and substituted 12 for tec as it is attached to a Sulun A-12 Benelli clone. Sorry @norsk I trust this below, clarifies the product.


Attachment 170212

lyman #5 says DO NOT reduce by moree than 5% in the buckshot/slug text....

AP-70N appears in my old paper ADI book 3rd edition november 2000
cowboy shotshell data all loads shown are 1200fps at slowest,
winchester compression case.win 209 primer WAA12 22grn AP-70N

with remington case all the same but 21.5grns for 1255fps

thats once n 8th loads.... SEEMS YOUR ap70n is for the heavy end of loads....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

@Finnwolf You may have noted some "issues" being mentioned with Tiny url earlier in this thtread. Seems that they are still "happening", even as I bang away at the keyboard. Try this one

https://tinyurl.com/44x6h74e

which worked at the time of pasting it into this post. I ALWAYS test my pasted links, but if this also fails, then copy and paste this

https://www.a-tec.no/silencers


into the address field of your browser using "Paste and go"

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Thanks KS, worked this time:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

but will not be using it with slugs. Two reason, first because the accompanying literature says not to and second, so does Anders E. Johansen, the developer in reply to an email I sent to him.

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Interesting, did he say why? I was under the impression that it was due to the lack of shot cup which is the case in some buck shot loads also.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Interesting, did he say why? I was under the impression that it was due to the lack of shot cup which is the case in some buck shot loads also.

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Nope. I did point out in my query that the slugs were "sabot" slugs but his single word reply was "Instability".

Their unit has an internal perforated tube, call it a barrel if you wish, from one end to the other which all projectiles travel through and I can only surmise that concern exists about a slug wandering off course because of a "stability" problem and coming into contact with the tube...............the result of which WOULD be impressive.

Having asked and been given a one word reply, I deemed it appropriate not to challenge the answer or ask a further question.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

AP-70N appears in my old paper ADI book 3rd edition november 2000
cowboy shotshell data all loads shown are 1200fps at slowest........thats once n 8th loads.... SEEMS YOUR ap70n is for the heavy end of loads....

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As you say, "Cowboy loads," which nowadays seem to favour Trail Boss.

My current task is for 1 oz to 1.2 oz slugs . For your interest, I have a copy of a reply from ADI powders in response to another user's query for subsonic loads and it reads as follows..


"Here are figures supplied to me by the Ballistics Lab at ADI Australia using ADI AS30N


12 Gauge
Case: Winchester AA compression formed (Should be the same in the new Winchester case)
Primer: Win209 or Fiocchi 616
Wad: WAA12 (1-1/8th wad)
Powder: ADI AS30N/Hodgdons Clays
Shot: 1-1/4oz Lead Shot


11 grains = 851 fps @ 5970 psi
12 grains = 910 fps @ 6915 psi
13 grains = 944 fps @ 8610 psi
14 grains = 985 fps @ 9840 psi "

Subsonic loads with similar shot weights however greatly reduced powder charges. It is from these that I create loads for my Spanish Laurona sbs and started with when seeking subsonic loads in the Norwegian silenced Sulun Tac 12 semi .

you could be pushing poop uphill till you source another powder perhaps....

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Does it say -why-? ............

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Nope.........But possibly the after effects of "stuff" not leaving and / or blocking the barrel in mind?

Seems to me that the same weight of lead, (regardless of "shape" as long as it fits inside the wad cup) as recommended by ADI powders in the same type of hull and wad shoudn't be a problem. Apart from projectile performance.

Time and caution will show. Oh, and of course, no choking.

I can tell you now,when that slug was bouncing around woolshed walls n rails I WAS FAIR CRAPPING MY DAKS.....NOT recommended.

Interesting to remember that both the English Snider and Martini Henry projectiles finally settled up with a weight of 480 grains, basically the same weight as the modern day Lee 1 ounce key slug.

There is little to fear from them bouncing around as the user has a neat taget rack consisting of a hanging heavy carpet to which the tagets are attached. The projectiles don't bounce, they go straight through and end up in the earth behind the rack.

Hi would anyone happen to have any 12g data using trailboss as mentioned on page 2? Using it with all Winchester products hull,waa12 win 209.i have some trailboss and have run out of 12g powder.be great if i could find data.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by Kiwilad2021

Hi would anyone happen to have any 12g data using trailboss as mentioned on page 2.
Cheers

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@Kiwilad2021 An answer in your other post. Please don't post the same question in two different threads.... It makes my brain hurt to decide which to answer.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hun...4a45c1e92a-001


might be worth it to give you KNOWN DATA...