F**ck'n CCI Primers !

Had this issue several years ago with a 1,000 batch of Large Rifle CCI Primers. A number or primers didn't ignite unless retried two or three times. Some didn't ignite at all. I put the rest of them aside. Also have 1,000 Large Rifle Magnum CCI Primers. Probably used roughly half with no issues, until yesterday. Made up a ladder of loads for my .375 Ruger, 23 rounds total. One round couldn't be fired, even after trying three times. Friggin annoying ! Guess I'll be putting these aside too.
Only reason I used them was my Fedaral Primers are running low and I need to ration use until I can get more. NEVER had a failure with Fedaral.

https://i.postimg.cc/gk5xn611/20231003-131018.jpg

Picked up some of the new White River Primers today. Looking forward to giving them a whirl.

I found that they are quite hard and cases mustn’t be over sized so that there is movement onto the shoulder. Head space needs to be tight to ensure a good primer strike. Jaco put me onto this misfire remedy. I size my brass to be firm on closure now with the CCI LR primers now. Fixed the problem.

Found a similar thing with CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primers (which are probably harder than they need to be for the purpose). Root cause I believe of my problem was a build up of grease inside the bolt, slowing the firing pin. Strip it out and replaced with a light oil and haven't had issues since. They are definitely not as sensitive as Federal. I believe Federals excessively space consuming packaging is because of their high sensitivity.

The good thing is that they disguise pressure cos they don’t flatten or crater soo quickly. I’m sick of Brian and Rod giving me shit about my loads being “warm” and pointing at my fired cases with contempt. I’m happy to take everyone’s spare CCI primers. They will be a face saving device.

Can't complain about any CCI or Federal I've used, used Winchester for years till I got a bad batch, some of them blew out the edge of the primer and the hot gases rapidly etched the bolt faces on two of my rifles on the same day testing loads at the range. Hadn't got near max load so wasn't looking to carefully at the primers. Have never used Winchester again and have a good look with a magnifying glass after each group.

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Originally Posted by Makros

Found a similar thing with CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primers (which are probably harder than they need to be for the purpose). Root cause I believe of my problem was a build up of grease inside the bolt, slowing the firing pin. Strip it out and replaced with a light oil and haven't had issues since. They are definitely not as sensitive as Federal. I believe Federals excessively space consuming packaging is because of their high sensitivity.

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I had that exact same problem. Also combined with oversize brass. No more issues.

I prefer cci and fioachi in my Milsurps as i had federal rapture primers. Could tell looking at the primers the firing pin hits way deeper than sporting rifles.

had this 25 years ago when first got the zastava...until learnt to release bolt spring tension during storage by twisting rear of bolt to allow firing pin to poke out.

Handed over my 21 pieces of silver last night and got some white river LR primers. They're so new that I can't find any reviews on them. Guess we'll know after the weekend if they're any good. Apparently WR come from an automated factory that was only recently built.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

I found that they are quite hard and cases mustn’t be over sized so that there is movement onto the shoulder. Head space needs to be tight to ensure a good primer strike. Jaco put me onto this misfire remedy. I size my brass to be firm on closure now with the CCI LR primers now. Fixed the problem.

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Yes, you are correct on the headspace factor. I did wonder as the ladder I shot was made of both virgin and once fired brass. I'm pretty sure the defective round was a once fired case and my FL die is set for minimal bump as I prefer to chamber a round with slight "feel". But, I know with newish brass it can take two or three firings for a case to reach max stretch for a chamber, requiring a final and permanent resetting of the FL die for perfect brass sizing. It might be a case that needs another firing or two to max out. Still surprising though that the primer didn't ignite with repeated firings.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

I found that they are quite hard and cases mustn’t be over sized so that there is movement onto the shoulder. Head space needs to be tight to ensure a good primer strike. Jaco put me onto this misfire remedy. I size my brass to be firm on closure now with the CCI LR primers now. Fixed the problem.

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I had the same thing with the CCI SR magnum primers in my 223 using new unsized brass. About 1 in 20 would misfire. Necksized the once fired brass and haven't had an issue since.

I can’t take credit for that remedy. Sent the rifle and cases to Jaco and he figured it by measuring my cases with some gadget. Big variation and all the unfired ones had the most bump back.

[QUOTE=Nugget connaisseur;1503621].. i had federal rapture primers. ..

So the primers got off on it? :P

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Originally Posted by T.FOYE

.. Apparently WR come from an automated factory that was only recently built.

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Hope they work OK, one of my team mates has some loads he's gonna try at 1000 on the weekend. Any outfit with the energy/balls to set up a new factory to make components has my support.

Thats terrible to hear mate.
I tell you what, since I think you could do with a little generosity Since this unfortunate incident, I will take those dam primers and go through the process of disposing of them safely for no charge.
You just pay postage to get them to me and ill do the rest.
Maybe you can buy me a beer sometime if you feel like you need to, but honestly it would be my pleasure to do a good deed.

Cheers, 40mm

I looked at the indentation on the primer and thought to myself, the shoulders has been pushed back to far during sizing or new brass. Cheers Tahr, Ill put my money on your diagnoses.

@Thar and @Jaco Goosen
A follow up to my thread erroneously maligning CCI primers.
You guys are onto it and my thanks to you for a lesson relearnt.
Some of my brass was too new, even after two firings and wasn't right up to chamber dimension. Also, my FL Die was slightly oversizing so I reset it to give me firmness on bolt closure. I deprimed the case above in the pic and reprimed with the same primer into a case that definitely felt firm on chambering. That very primer which had not ignited after three attempts was perfect today at the range and ignited the charge most emphatically.
I'm picking I'll have no further issues after this little educational exercise.

Thanks for the feedback 30.06king. Glad you managed

I had a failure last night, which I cant recall ever previously happening.
Long stalk / approach on a couple of young stags an hour before dark. Closed to 100 mtrs, lined up 'click' checked safety etc re-cock bolt 'click'. Deer trotted off ( my six year old made a noise)
Anyway, checked the case and there was a solid indent in the primer. The cases are a firm fit - fire-formed 2506 AI

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

I had a failure last night, which I cant recall ever previously happening.
Long stalk / approach on a couple of young stags an hour before dark. Closed to 100 mtrs, lined up 'click' checked safety etc re-cock bolt 'click'. Deer trotted off ( my six year old made a noise)
Anyway, checked the case and there was a solid indent in the primer. The cases are a firm fit - fire-formed 2506 AI

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Thankfully, when it happened to me it was only ever on the range, never while hunting. It's said that "click" is the loudest sound in hunting :pissed off:
If it ever happens to me I hope I have the presence of mind to immediately crank in another round before the deer bolts ...

Would be interesting to know why your primer failed.

Moa

Do me a huge favour?

If you haven’t fired or pulled that cartridge that did not fire.

Do you have the tools to measure by how much the shoulders have been pushed back during sizing?

Can you measure and compare this cartridge and some cases that did fire?

I could be wrong(usuallyare) . But didn't Nick Harvey say in his reloading book that primers should be sensitized when seating , buy slightly compressing them. Think he did say by how much. Probably would also help with excess head space giving poor ignition?

Sent from my SM-A145F using Tapatalk

I'm not saying at all that the example above has the cause that I'll describe but more of a generalisation - incorrect advise has floated around for ever that primers must be seated flush with the cartridge's base. This is totally wrong (except in the case maybe of the White River primers which may be deaper in dimension than the primer pocket).
Primers must be seated with the anvil in contact with bottom of the primer pocket. In most cases this will mean that the primer is below face. If seated flush and there is a gap between the anvil and the PP's base the force of the firing pin is mostly expended trying to push the anvil to contact the PP base.
Some primers IIRC early Murons needed a degree of crush to make the contact. I seat my LRPs (CCI BR-2s) with 2 thou crush and my SRPs at around 1.5 thou crush. However, working to these dimensions is beyond the average reloader's capability.

As already covered, excess shoulder bump is a potential cause of failed, or poor ignition.
Another cause, but these days shouldn't be common, is incorrect firing pin protrusion. This combined with excess shoulder bump is sure to give problems.

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

Thankfully, when it happened to me it was only ever on the range, never while hunting. It's said that "click" is the loudest sound in hunting :pissed off:
If it ever happens to me I hope I have the presence of mind to immediately crank in another round before the deer bolts ...

Would be interesting to know why your primer failed.

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Id say let the deer bolt mate.
If you just happen to be lucky enough to experience a 'hang fire' and open that bolt too soon.....
Kiss your hand and probably your eyesight goodbye.

Its highly unlikely, but there is plenty of deer about.

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Originally Posted by 40mm

Id say let the deer bolt mate.
If you just happen to be lucky enough to experience a 'hang fire' and open that bolt too soon.....
Kiss your hand and probably your eyesight goodbye.

Its highly unlikely, but there is plenty of deer about.

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Good point. Only got one eye anyway and without it I wouldn't be much of a hunter.

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Originally Posted by Jaco Goosen

Moa

Do me a huge favour?

If you haven’t fired or pulled that cartridge that did not fire.

Do you have the tools to measure by how much the shoulders have been pushed back during sizing?

Can you measure and compare this cartridge and some cases that did fire?

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I left it in the rifle for a minute then ejected it, had a look at the primer and chucked it away. A bloke I used to know had a hangfire blowup in midair with scrapnel in the face - eyes ok.

The cases are fire-formed from 270 brass. Necked down leaving a donut ring on the neck to firmly chamber against. After that the fire-formed cases are sized only enough to chamber firmly, and AI cases dont stretch anyway.
The primer looked just like a primer looks when a fired case has been used in-leu of a 'snap cap' for dry firing the rifle, so a heavy strike

+1 above.
NRANZ in their rules stipulate at least 30 seconds, and then open bolt with face well clear and none of your mates close behind.

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Originally Posted by 30.06king

Thankfully, when it happened to me it was only ever on the range, never while hunting. It's said that "click" is the loudest sound in hunting :pissed off:
If it ever happens to me I hope I have the presence of mind to immediately crank in another round before the deer bolts ...

Would be interesting to know why your primer failed.

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LOL...CLICK!

I used a rifle with a set trigger to shoot my first cape buffalo. The PH almost schidt his shorts when he heard the set "click".

This is an interesting thread with some excellent information.

When new to the great old 9,3X62 I loaded 50 rounds to play with. I'm fortunate to have a private range on my small property here in our wide open spaces, and I have a rest on top of the master bedroom dresser with a 150 yard range out the window and the reloading bench in the adjacent laundry room.

I started popping off five shot groups on multiple targets I set up and had shot #6 go "click". I waited a minute and wrapped a quilt against my head as a barrier, then opened the bolt. I found a faint dent in the primer.

You guessed it; I sized the brass down too much. I was able to pull the bullets, dump powder, drop a dab of oil inside the cases onto the primers and de-prime.

I ran a .375 expander into the necks and neck sized with enough second shoulder to headspace with a firm bolt closure, loaded the pulled bullets over pistol powder and filler and fire formed the brass to the chamber. I have only one 9,3X62, so I neck size only now. The 9,3X62 is finicky about proper headspace.

Nice lookin Kudu Navada. Fixed a 9.3x62 a while ago, he now has several. Absolutely loves the old girls.

So you want to see what a case looks like when the primer goes off outside the chamber?

This was done in the approved manner and now you know why

Attachment 235523

A learned forum member has suggested that I had contaminated the primer compound with oil off my hands when loading. This is the most likely scenario

Shit you must have oily fingers :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by johnd

Shit you must have oily fingers :thumbsup:

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The obvious follow up question is was it oil or did he wipe carefully? :o

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Originally Posted by luv2safari

The obvious follow up question is was it oil or did he wipe carefully? :o

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Shaking hands and furrowed brow were covered with cold sweat from the nervous fear that I might drop and loose one, and the stark reality that it could not be replaced

I have deprimed cases and reused tons of primers over again with no issue. Its no problem to dismantle ammo and reuse the primers. I am too cheap to throw a primer away.

The only misfires recently I have had were with my old BSA in .308, I thought it was because it was a frozen morning and bolt inside clogged with semi frozen grease...I had three rounds needed another strike to go off, after reading this thread its more likely I have over sized the cases, because the bolt was fine when I took it apart.

The tactile seating measurement of a clean dry thumb is hard to beat after priming. Every case lovingly felt. Always primer pocket uniform. It saves a lot of grief and wasted or crushed primers. 2C.