A few 308 questions.

Hi everyone, my new second hand first ever reloading kit arrived this week and like a kid at Christmas, I unwrapped it all with delight. The gear all looks in pretty good condition, some of it almost unused. Since I won the auction I reckon I have clocked up about 30 hours of reading and watching on the subject, and have managed to narrow down the list of questions before getting on here to bother everyone.

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1. One of the main reasons for getting into this gig is the property I lease has a significant goat problem, and the amount of ammo I am getting through is getting pricey. I also provide ammo for friends who come to help me out, most of whom also have 308s of their own to use. Now I am bracing myself as I type this, as I know how a lot of you feel about throwing hand loads around varying rifles, but I would like to be able to load a nice mild round that will perform safely in most rifles within 200 yards. I'm sure I have seen the comment "if this bullet won't shoot, nothing will" somewhere, but I can't find it today. They would only be used on goats, so don't need to have massive stopping power.

2. This one should be a bit of fun. The box of bullets pictured below came in the parcel, and looks like none of it has been used. This wouldn't in itself be unusual, but the price written on the box, $3.50, would suggest they have experienced a fair bit of inflation since they were purchased! The box says 180gr Spire Point. Does anybody know anything about them? They look like an Interlock, is that what they are? I assume they will still be good to use? I reckon they would make an excellent bush round for the roar!

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The wee powder trickle also has a price on it, a whopping $6.75! Looks like it has never been sullied by powder!

3. Last question, I also would like a nice 400-yard max hunting round for reds. I have read a lot about what will work for that combo, the question is, what of what will work is reliably available at the moment? Preferably locally, either Invercargill or Dunedin for powder. Happy to order projectiles through the post.


Another bit of kit that amused me was the 375 grain 375 H&H projectiles and dies that came in the package. Aside from the exercise of trying to figure out what in NZ would require a hunk of lead like that, I immensely enjoyed telling my wife that it would be silly for me not to invest in a matching rifle to use them up!

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Buy yourself a powder thrower , my hornady one is 40 yrs old and loads in 223 and 308 will both shoot moa as thrown once sorted also you may find the sticker on the scales if like my lyman is slightly off but you just set pointer on right side of line , its like they are halve a line out . Some 2208 and you are good to go , enjoy more shooting .

A minimum to low charge of ADI 2208 under a 150gn pill will give you a very accurate round and moderate mv of arlund 2600 '/ sec. Coal about 2.75" with sgk sbt 150. 42-43 grain. That mildoad will still work well at 400.

Using powder weights around starting loads in multiple rifles should be no problem, but make sure you full length size the cases.
The Hornady interlock 150gr spire points (#3031) shoot well in my 308, but were about 10 times the price of your 180's when I last bought some in the late 1990's! The projectile is your major cost reloading, any reputable brand cup n core bullet soft point will do for goats. I'd go with whatever is cheap and available from Hornady, Sierra, Speer, etc.
At close range 30-30 style bullets are devastating with a mild load out of a 308 (usually going faster than out of a 30-30).

for mainly goats...not being recovered for meat where not every shot will be ideally placed...see if can find in order of preference one of these three...130grn speer hollow points,speer 125grn TNT and lastly 125grn nosler ballistic tips. as others have said bog standard 150grns are going to do the job just fine,the lighter options will just do it more explosively,better for skinny/small goats and may anchor animal faster if shot placement isnt ideal.
you will also have slightly less recoil and seeing as you want to load for multiple rifles with same load=minimum spec FLS every time you can load these more explody projectiles softer load for longer brass life and being lighter on powder charge slightly slower than max yet will still give more than enough expansion (understatement of year)spot on with the 180s...awesome bush load.

2206 -----2208------748 all work well and USUALLY .308s arent fussy

also look hard at what belmont can provide at not much more than reloading cost...if say you bought 2-500 rounds it would give you big lot of same brass to keep you going for years. powder throwers are great bit of kit ,but you can get by with LEE spoons for lesser cost,at lesser speed,you will weigh every charge over scales to begin with anyway...once you get into big batch loading its still 6 in one half dozen the other which is faster or more accurate as both spoons/dipper and thrower work same way,they throw volume not weight.

whats in winchester bullet box???

I also spy .270 cases and assumably dies??? gunworks currently still listing 110grn sierra....that would make good goat medicine.

and lastly your to 400 yard reds load......well if you can poke any of above into the right place they will work,the 150-165s are going to be best bet,but you could always carry some special loads for just that...federal bluebox factory is always pretty darn good accuracy wise,years back we just shot what we had on hand and it did the job if we put projectiles in right place,the animals havent changed. I wouldnt suggest the under 150grn loads for shoulder shooting reds,but slip one in the crease and its night night nursey quick smartly. if you shooting goats you will know what rifle/shooter is capable of hitting and a red hind is much bigger than a yearling goat. if you can cleanly hit goat at 400 you will do same to reds every day of the week.

Thanks everyone, I will sit down tonight and see what of your suggestions so far I can find in stock. A powder thrower is in the wee list of extra equipment i am still shopping for.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

whats in winchester bullet box???

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I wondered if anyone would spot that, they are 130gr 270 silver tips.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I also spy .270 cases and assumably dies??? gunworks currently still listing 110grn sierra....that would make good goat medicine.

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There is brass and projectiles, no dies. I dont have a 270, so unless my cousin splashes out on dies etc it may all end up in the projectile exchange or buy sell thread!

DO NOT get rid of them.....I have one loaded factory round left that gets used to set up my dies.
how many in box??? I will swap you for 125grn tnt .308s one for one

bugger...just re checked only have 7 of the TNTs but have more than full box of 150grn speer hot cores......will throw the TNTs in for you to trial and happily swap the hot cores as have on sold the .308.

shooting out to 200 at low cost with good performance on Goats . . consider buying a LEE bullet mold and load to 1600fps, it will pay for itself in a couple of trips

Greetings,
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having one load for multiple rifles. The factories do it all the time. For your goat load I suggest around 43 grains of AR2206H. This used to be called a middle load or half way between start and max for the 150 grain projectile. For projectile any 150 grain flat base soft point will do. For this the flat base is preferred as it is likely to shoot well in most rifles. For your longer range red deer load you could use a 150 grain boat tail projectile of your choice with the charge worked up to max assuming the boat tail shoots well in your rifle. Keep these loads away from your mates. I used this combination for years with IMR and milsurp 4895. With the faster load zeroed for 200 yards (this was a while ago) the lighter load shot close to zero at 100 yards. You can do the same thing with 165 grain projectiles with less powdwer to suit but your mates are likely using 150 grain projectiles. .308 rifles often shoot different weights of projectiles to different points of impact, something to look out for.
As far as good projectiles and loads for reds I can do no better to quote a friend we shall call The Great Guru who said "When you are using the .308 projectile choice does not matter". I can't improve on that.
Regards Grandpamac.

A quick look at the Gunworks website shows that most 308 projectiles are sold out or limited to 1 box per customer, so choices are currently pretty limited

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Originally Posted by Cigar

A quick look at the Gunworks website shows that most 308 projectiles are sold out or limited to 1 box per customer, so choices are currently pretty limited

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Reloader still seem to have plenty of 30 cal in stock fwiw

What does it cost to reload a 308 goat bullet?.Gunworks sell 147gr fmj for $25/box of 20.Deadly accurate to 200yds.

The .308 with 180-grain tips is excellent. With practice up to 600 meters or more, you can get a lot of meat, if you want. If I were in your country I would buy you the .375 H&H dice, fantastic caliber. It is one of my favorite calibers. Enjoying the recharge will give you a lot of satisfaction.

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Originally Posted by Trout

What does it cost to reload a 308 goat bullet?.Gunworks sell 147gr fmj for $25/box of 20.Deadly accurate to 200yds.

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Greetings Trout,
Using a cheap plated projectile like the Frontier 150 grain and a reduced load about $20.00 a box of 20. Closer to $30.00 a box of 20 for the cheapest soft points. This is not much less than the cheapest factory loads and does not include anything for the case. Why do I only use handloads? A ridiculous question and I will get back to you once I have thought up a decent answer. Seriously for many of us loading our own is a significant part of the hunting and shooting experience. The more honest of us don't pretend we are saving any money.
Regards Grandpamac.

with cast and trailboss its cheaper than .22lr or plurry close to it...ideal for sub hundy and finishing shots. some rifles wont feed the big fflat hollow points well but they still work for the one up the spout...using a quietish round for finishing shots is just so much more civilised.

Yes reloading is like making yr own flys for fly fishing.They are both a great hobby that will never die.

I understand that it would potentially be just as cheap to get some factory ammos for this job. There are a few reasons I decided to go down this road instead. Firstly, I like knowing how things work and how I can effect and manipulate them. It sounds like fun. I did look into Belmont ammunition before exploring reloading at all, and if their website is accurate, getting large quantities of their ammo at the moment is not a going thing! The milsurp FMJ could be an option, but I dont have a special rifle for just shooting goats, and perhaps I am making some incorrect assumptions, but I sort of just dislike the idea of putting large quantities of that stuff through a rig I am quite fond of.


So a bit of an update, I have managed to aquire a range of projectiles to start playing with. I have 130grHp, Some 150gr Sp Hot cors (Thanks Micky Duck), and a box of hornady 165gr BtSp.
All came together pretty easy and I was getting pretty excited.
Then I began looking for the reccomended powders... well, it seems its a hard world out there powder wise at the moment. After ever website said every store was out of every powder that had been suggested, it was with little optimism that I planned to visit both Delta Mike and Custom Guns in Invercargill today. Thankfully, the great service I encountered at both stores meant I now have in my possession a tin of IMR4166, 2 packets of Large rifle magnum primers, and all the advice a growing boy needs to safely turn them into bullets!

I also picked up this powder thrower off trademe for $60 to match my press. Time to get on with it!

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Those 130gr speer hp are perfect goat medicine and are extremely accurate in everything I have used them in.
They will also work well on reds with a bit more range and a neck or rib shot.

Those 180 hornadys loaded up near max will kill anything in NZ 0-400y no problem at all.

If you can get hold of AR2206H you can't go wrong. It's probably the most versatile powder you could get. It might not be the best max velocity but it's not going to be far behind whatever would be. Not enough to concern you.

Loading for mates is ok so long as you full length size cases to basically return the case to in spec so it's not going to jam.
Stick to moderate loads and shouldn't be a problem.
No need to go above 150gn. Those Speer 125gn TNT suggested by Micky Duck come in packs of 500 reasonably priced.

Using AR2206H can be used as low as 60% of max charge weight so you can load down for small blocks or supressor use of you like.
It's also able to be used across a wide range of cartridges making it versatile.

The way things are around the globe at present id be picking a powder that is easy to obtain such as ADI , Once you have your brew sorted do a bulk buy .

Update folks, have settled on a load that zeroed about an inch higher than the factory load I have been and will continue to use for deer, at least until they run out. I had a brief concern about some slightly flattened primers, but a quick consultation with Mr Micky Duck and some testing revealed that I was bumping the shoulder too much, so turned the sizing die to just touching the shell holder and the problem went away.
46 grains of Imr 4166, 130 grain speer hollow points and a federal magnum primer. I haven't chronographed it, dont think I will as like I already said, its for sub 300 yard culling. I took a wee handful out last night and went 6 goats for 6 shots, all bang, flop shots. Happy boy.

Some economics
1lb of powder = 7000 grains (or so the internet tells me)
7000 / 46 = 152
$89 / 152 = 59c per round

$68 / 100 projectiles = 68c

$16 (I think) / 100 primers = 16c

Brass = saved up = free

59+68+16= $1.43 + my time, which has no value because I was enjoying myself.

My last lot of ammo I supplied to the guys was Federal blue box, at just under $3 a round, or I could get FMJ at $1.50, so Im pretty happy with how it stacks up. I can convince myself that in 200 rounds, I will have paid off the second hand gear I bought!
Thanks again to everyone who helped out.

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Originally Posted by LMcNab

Update folks, have settled on a load that zeroed about an inch higher than the factory load I have been and will continue to use for deer, at least until they run out. I had a brief concern about some slightly flattened primers, but a quick consultation with Mr Micky Duck and some testing revealed that I was bumping the shoulder too much, so turned the sizing die to just touching the shell holder and the problem went away.
46 grains of Imr 4166, 130 grain speer hollow points and a federal magnum primer. I haven't chronographed it, dont think I will as like I already said, its for sub 300 yard culling. I took a wee handful out last night and went 6 goats for 6 shots, all bang, flop shots. Happy boy.

Some economics
1lb of powder = 7000 grains (or so the internet tells me)
7000 / 46 = 152
$89 / 152 = 59c per round

$68 / 100 projectiles = 68c

$16 (I think) / 100 primers = 16c

Brass = saved up = free

59+68+16= $1.43 + my time, which has no value because I was enjoying myself.

My last lot of ammo I supplied to the guys was Federal blue box, at just under $3 a round, or I could get FMJ at $1.50, so Im pretty happy with how it stacks up. I can convince myself that in 200 rounds, I will have paid off the second hand gear I bought!
Thanks again to everyone who helped out.

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Just bear in mind that brass is consumable, you can do things to help extend it's working life, like annealing (NZ made Annealing Made Perfect Machine, perfect way to crash your reloading budget and cause civil disharmony :O_O: , or more reasonably, a cheap gas blowtorch and some good judgement).

Furthermore, some people get really anal about brass prep (think primer pocket uniforming, neck turning etc.) but I find most of the people who do that don't shoot worth a damn because they spend too much time online, at the reloading bench and when they finally get round to shooting, it's only for the purpose of 'load development' and they chase their tails because they can't hold a good three or five shot group in the first place!

Federal ammo and brass is fine, some people will turn their noses up at it but I've taken plenty goats and deer with them and they had no complaints! ;)

If your goat shooting is max range 150m consider using the likes of Rob Walkers cast HP at $0.40 each over around 12 gn of a Pistol/Shotgun Powder. Red Dot is kind of the standard. I use others including AP70N and old ICL Nobel Shotgun Powder No 78. Around 1600 fps is very accurate, cheap on powder and projectiles and deadly effective around the 100m mark.

Ed Harris is the legend on this and if you search this site you will find plenty of reference to it. https://www.hensleygibbs.com/edharri...The%20Load.htm

The Frontier pills mentioned above will also work well if they are the FPs. The RNs I have found not to kill so well unless you are on the shoulder hitting bone.

Save the pricey factory projectiles for better things than culling goats.

trailboss is too easy with the cast 151s too somewhere around 6-7-8grns will be subsonic,but for me i WOULD if doing it again...would semi fill case EG more powder to base of neck so its something supersonic and use them for the first round....
those 150grn speers will go good too...I would pick load on similar % level to what you using..so 2??grns below book max...I would be surprised if they pattern much outside your other load if at all....