Thread: Fill length resizing not using expander button.

To be fair I have fucked around with most die set ups, concetricity Guage and neck turning.
What I have worked out is an amp annealer is my freind.
My trusty tikka 6 5x55( third barrel) I have used various die set ups and have ended up using g a standard hornady FL die with redding comp shell holder to stop excessive head space.
I do use good components but I can't shoot better than the rifle is capable.
I have saying.
Out clevering your self.
I think there's a fair bit of that happening on the forum.
My 2 cents.
Of to the Taihape nzda 3 position shoot today so better get moving!


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I use mainly Hornady dies with their included exanders, you do need to polish the expanders well to make resizing easy.

To many people spent a lot of time doing stuff that really does not help them achieve their desired out come.
I used to bugger about for ages loading all my match ammo very carefully and one at a time then out of frustration I loaded 100 once fired .223 thru my dillon 550 then I fannyed about for ages loading 100 by hand (Single headstamp, weighing cases, weighing every powder charge, weighing every projectile and sorting to get 100 of same bearing length etc etc.


Shot both at 100m and 200m thru my now long since bent up nasty black rifle and the difference in accuracy was not worth the extra shagging around


If you like to spend valuable free time loading ammo with OCD great but in reality you only need it to be accurate enough to do the job reliably (whatever that may be) and unless you are trying to get them all thru the same hole (bench rest) maybe you could free up a bit more time not getting so picky

Biggest difference I made to my reloading was to toss away all the neck size only dies I had been supplied and FLS only

well I did try some without expander and doughnutted 3 cases so can stick that idea where sun doesnt shine....maybe a sleak boattail woul have helped...but I shall be sticking with tried n true hensforthwith

Maybe it only works with redding dies because they have the wee bushings.

On the bright side MD you can have fun weilding a bit back on that die you butchered.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

well I did try some without expander and doughnutted 3 cases so can stick that idea where sun doesnt shine....maybe a sleak boattail woul have helped...but I shall be sticking with tried n true hensforthwith

You annealed all your cases. Yesterday loaded 100 hornady 55gr SP. Smooth as hot butter.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You annealed all your cases. Yesterday loaded 100 hornady 55gr SP. Smooth as hot butter.

Are you using Redding dies @TeRei?

Originally Posted by 7mm Rem Mag

Are you using Redding dies @TeRei?

Yes.


https://www.6mmbr.com/reloadingfroggy.html

Originally Posted by TeRei

Yes.


https://www.6mmbr.com/reloadingfroggy.html

Yep same here, thanks for the link.

Everything pretty close to what I'm doing. I don't know if you can remove the expander on other dies or if it's even possible but sure works with the Redding dies.

Thanks again for the reply

I pulled some .260rem ammo a dude loaded without the expander button on with rcbs FL dies. 30 hits with the inertia hammer to get them out! I broke the hammer and had to borrow a camlock puller which was still frigin' hard. (yes i pushed the pills in a touch first to break any weld). There was some new brass loaded in the mix and they pulled super easy.
I'd leave the button on imo.

MickeyD - i like the lee dies long expander, it works great and cleans shit out of the neck as you size the cases. Just dont have it too high up in the die or you'll crush the neck. As you now know



left is from a badly setup lee collet and middle is from the lee FL die with the expander rod too high up after i pulled it apart and reassembled to clean from new.

If you do not use an expander (or a mandrel), then you'll obviously leave the necks undersized. More or less depending on the brand of the die and thickness of the brass.

You are not working the neck less and doing anything to promote greater brass life over the entire reloading cycle vs using an expander, because the bullet itself is going to act like a mandrel and open the neck up to final diameter when seated (and it's larger than the expander anyway). Then the entire case neck is going to fireform out to a larger diameter again when you pull the trigger anyway. You're just removing an intermediate step.

If you don't poke the shank of the projectile all the way down through the neck during seating, it's going to be very visually obvious because the step between the remaining undersized neck and top portion that's been expanded by the bullet is going to be much bigger vs having used an expander.

Honestly, all this seems to accomplish is massively increasing neck tension and increasing the force required for seating (potentially deforming the bullet where the stem contacts it) for no good reason.

Originally Posted by Pommy

If you do not use an expander (or a mandrel), then you'll obviously leave the necks undersized. More or less depending on the brand of the die and thickness of the brass.

You are not working the neck less and doing anything to promote greater brass life over the entire reloading cycle vs using an expander, because the bullet itself is going to act like a mandrel and open the neck up to final diameter when seated (and it's larger than the expander anyway). Then the entire case neck is going to fireform out to a larger diameter again when you pull the trigger anyway. You're just removing an intermediate step.

If you don't poke the shank of the projectile all the way down through the neck during seating, it's going to be very visually obvious because the step between the remaining undersized neck and top portion that's been expanded by the bullet is going to be much bigger vs having used an expander.

Honestly, all this seems to accomplish is massively increasing neck tension and increasing the force required for seating (potentially deforming the bullet where the stem contacts it) for no good reason.

Been following thread with interest - absent personal experience this makes the most sense I've read so far...

Originally Posted by Roarless20

I pulled some .260rem ammo a dude loaded without the expander button on with rcbs FL dies. 30 hits with the inertia hammer to get them out! I broke the hammer and had to borrow a camlock puller which was still frigin' hard. (yes i pushed the pills in a touch first to break any weld). There was some new brass loaded in the mix and they pulled super easy.
I'd leave the button on imo.

MickeyD - i like the lee dies long expander, it works great and cleans shit out of the neck as you size the cases. Just dont have it too high up in the die or you'll crush the neck. As you now know

Attachment 206691

left is from a badly setup lee collet and middle is from the lee FL die with the expander rod too high up after i pulled it apart and reassembled to clean from new.

Good looking cases there. Haha…

Been reading all. Curiosity now satisfied, unfortunately, in the process of satisfying same a perfectly good Forster Bullet seating die bit the dust. Insane neck tension! Appreciate everyone's input.

Originally Posted by Pommy

If you do not use an expander (or a mandrel), then you'll obviously leave the necks undersized. More or less depending on the brand of the die and thickness of the brass.

You are not working the neck less and doing anything to promote greater brass life over the entire reloading cycle vs using an expander, because the bullet itself is going to act like a mandrel and open the neck up to final diameter when seated (and it's larger than the expander anyway). Then the entire case neck is going to fireform out to a larger diameter again when you pull the trigger anyway. You're just removing an intermediate step.

If you don't poke the shank of the projectile all the way down through the neck during seating, it's going to be very visually obvious because the step between the remaining undersized neck and top portion that's been expanded by the bullet is going to be much bigger vs having used an expander.

Honestly, all this seems to accomplish is massively increasing neck tension and increasing the force required for seating (potentially deforming the bullet where the stem contacts it) for no good reason.

Suggest you read Froggy's link. If he can hit golf balls at that distance he must know what he is doing. Clearly his day job gave him an advantage,. Your experience is dramatically different to all my reloading which is across a number of calibres. Each to their own. My experience only with Redding. Cant empahasise enough the wisdom of annealing every time. 2C. They are magic with 95gr Targex. You see vapour trails. LOL.

Originally Posted by Roarless20

I pulled some .260rem ammo a dude loaded without the expander button on with rcbs FL dies. 30 hits with the inertia hammer to get them out! I broke the hammer and had to borrow a camlock puller which was still frigin' hard. (yes i pushed the pills in a touch first to break any weld). There was some new brass loaded in the mix and they pulled super easy.
I'd leave the button on imo.

MickeyD - i like the lee dies long expander, it works great and cleans shit out of the neck as you size the cases. Just dont have it too high up in the die or you'll crush the neck. As you now know

Attachment 206691

left is from a badly setup lee collet and middle is from the lee FL die with the expander rod too high up after i pulled it apart and reassembled to clean from new.

I feel better now,thankyou....