Thread: Fill length resizing not using expander button.

Originally Posted by Pommy

If you do not use an expander (or a mandrel), then you'll obviously leave the necks undersized. More or less depending on the brand of the die and thickness of the brass.

You are not working the neck less and doing anything to promote greater brass life over the entire reloading cycle vs using an expander, because the bullet itself is going to act like a mandrel and open the neck up to final diameter when seated (and it's larger than the expander anyway). Then the entire case neck is going to fireform out to a larger diameter again when you pull the trigger anyway. You're just removing an intermediate step.

If you don't poke the shank of the projectile all the way down through the neck during seating, it's going to be very visually obvious because the step between the remaining undersized neck and top portion that's been expanded by the bullet is going to be much bigger vs having used an expander.

Honestly, all this seems to accomplish is massively increasing neck tension and increasing the force required for seating (potentially deforming the bullet where the stem contacts it) for no good reason.

Suggest you read Froggy's link. If he can hit golf balls at that distance he must know what he is doing. Clearly his day job gave him an advantage,. Your experience is dramatically different to all my reloading which is across a number of calibres. Each to their own. My experience only with Redding. Cant empahasise enough the wisdom of annealing every time. 2C. They are magic with 95gr Targex. You see vapour trails. LOL.

Originally Posted by TeRei

Suggest you read Froggy's link. If he can hit golf balls at that distance he must know what he is doing. Clearly his day job gave him an advantage,. Your experience is dramatically different to all my reloading which is across a number of calibres. Each to their own. My experience only with Redding. Cant empahasise enough the wisdom of annealing every time. 2C. They are magic with 95gr Targex. You see vapour trails. LOL.

If you read that linked article properly you will see that the Shooter has custom reamed dies that act like a bushing die, which sizes the neck o.d. spot on. He also lubes the inside case neck just before seating his projectiles.

He definitely didn't say it was achieved using off the shelf dies without the expander fitted.

You guys only took a fraction of his advice/process and thought to try it 😂

Originally Posted by Roarless20

If you read that linked article properly you will see that the Shooter has custom reamed dies that act like a bushing die, which sizes the neck o.d. spot on. He also lubes the inside case neck just before seating his projectiles.

He definitely didn't say it was achieved using off the shelf dies without the expander fitted.

You guys only took a fraction of his advice/process and thought to try it ��

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

I think you have fallen into the trap of thinking that because some people do it that way and get good results, that it's the only way anyone could possibly get those results. It's not. I have multiple videos of people head shooting game at +500m with ammo sized with expanders, if you'd like evidence of this.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it's impossible to get good accuracy unless you're using an expander. Clearly you can. But sometimes good results happen in spite of the reloader and not because of them (fortunately, Bryn makes excellent bullets that you've really got to be doing something terribly wrong to get them to shoot badly). I've given an explanation as to why removing the expander is not such a groundbreakingly innovative idea unless you're going to do it properly and neck turn your brass and have your die honed out.

You also don't have to ditch your expander before you're allowed to anneal your brass. These two things are unrelated.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

No, i definitely fully agree with annealing every firing and sized carefully (0.002" shoulder bump) and seating accurately using good bullets. Seating depth tuning will get you your accuracy.

It was only the removed expander on factory dies i was pointing out isnt the best advice, and isnt at all what that article was saying. There was alot more in his process that was getting that guy his accuracy. Custom reamed sizing die with no expander being part. Obviously you can do this depending on the die brand/style, as you and others clearly are.

I never questioned the accuracy either. I too am a head shooter of deer, when practical. Longest are 400m on a small fallow spiker and 370m on a fallow yearling doe (heads half the size of Reds). Many, many between 100-250m. Using .222 thru to 6.5prc, most with my old ruger .243 pushing 87gr sp bullets.

I reload using dies from 3 different brands all with expanders in. I get great accuracy out of all of them. My 6mm creedmoor (very lightweight hunting rifle) is loaded using basic Lee dies, it shoots 0.5moa groups or better, a couple of groups were one hole while doing a basic load dev.

Measuring accurately using calipers and comparator bushings to get consistent reloads (sizing and seating) and Seating depth tuning will be where the most gains are in your reloads group sizes.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

Good shooting just not very ethical me thinks.

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