Thread: Fill length resizing not using expander button.

@TeRei, I'll pass thanks. Pretty sure people have shot small groups and that bullets still create a trace when the brass gets sized with FL dies that have their expanders left in

Originally Posted by TeRei

Suggest you read Froggy's link. If he can hit golf balls at that distance he must know what he is doing. Clearly his day job gave him an advantage,. Your experience is dramatically different to all my reloading which is across a number of calibres. Each to their own. My experience only with Redding. Cant empahasise enough the wisdom of annealing every time. 2C. They are magic with 95gr Targex. You see vapour trails. LOL.

If you read that linked article properly you will see that the Shooter has custom reamed dies that act like a bushing die, which sizes the neck o.d. spot on. He also lubes the inside case neck just before seating his projectiles.

He definitely didn't say it was achieved using off the shelf dies without the expander fitted.

You guys only took a fraction of his advice/process and thought to try it 😂

@TeRei and @7mm Rem Mag. Still curious, cat's not dead yet, what bullet seating dies do you guys use?

@TeRei and @7mm Rem Mag. Still curious, cat's not dead yet, what bullet seating dies do you guys use?

Redding compition match dies

Sizing is Redding full length sizing die

0 issues yet

Originally Posted by Roarless20

If you read that linked article properly you will see that the Shooter has custom reamed dies that act like a bushing die, which sizes the neck o.d. spot on. He also lubes the inside case neck just before seating his projectiles.

He definitely didn't say it was achieved using off the shelf dies without the expander fitted.

You guys only took a fraction of his advice/process and thought to try it ��

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

I think you have fallen into the trap of thinking that because some people do it that way and get good results, that it's the only way anyone could possibly get those results. It's not. I have multiple videos of people head shooting game at +500m with ammo sized with expanders, if you'd like evidence of this.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it's impossible to get good accuracy unless you're using an expander. Clearly you can. But sometimes good results happen in spite of the reloader and not because of them (fortunately, Bryn makes excellent bullets that you've really got to be doing something terribly wrong to get them to shoot badly). I've given an explanation as to why removing the expander is not such a groundbreakingly innovative idea unless you're going to do it properly and neck turn your brass and have your die honed out.

You also don't have to ditch your expander before you're allowed to anneal your brass. These two things are unrelated.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

No, i definitely fully agree with annealing every firing and sized carefully (0.002" shoulder bump) and seating accurately using good bullets. Seating depth tuning will get you your accuracy.

It was only the removed expander on factory dies i was pointing out isnt the best advice, and isnt at all what that article was saying. There was alot more in his process that was getting that guy his accuracy. Custom reamed sizing die with no expander being part. Obviously you can do this depending on the die brand/style, as you and others clearly are.

I never questioned the accuracy either. I too am a head shooter of deer, when practical. Longest are 400m on a small fallow spiker and 370m on a fallow yearling doe (heads half the size of Reds). Many, many between 100-250m. Using .222 thru to 6.5prc, most with my old ruger .243 pushing 87gr sp bullets.

I reload using dies from 3 different brands all with expanders in. I get great accuracy out of all of them. My 6mm creedmoor (very lightweight hunting rifle) is loaded using basic Lee dies, it shoots 0.5moa groups or better, a couple of groups were one hole while doing a basic load dev.

Measuring accurately using calipers and comparator bushings to get consistent reloads (sizing and seating) and Seating depth tuning will be where the most gains are in your reloads group sizes.

Originally Posted by TeRei

You miss the point. Annealed brass. Sized carefully and seated carefully. Voila. Magic land. No voodoo. Shove a 95gr Targex on top and walk 300m away. See if you think its not accurate. I gave a gad full away to a mate. He is heading shooting reds across a gorge at 350m. He attributes his skill to the release practices by Foggy. We are not in that category but Targex pills are bloody accurate.

Good shooting just not very ethical me thinks.

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further to my altered expander ball....
got new one the otherday from gunworks...suoer quick service too.
got out the micrometer..fancypants ruler.... the old expander Ive taken the top bit of expandy bit off,eg bit furtherest from primer removing pin is gone,the bit closest to removal pin is still there and measures .224" now the new one...measures .224 at top of expandy section BUT the bit closest to primer remover pin is .204 so its a gradual tapered cylinder verses the older straight sided cylinder....
SO if you fellas also took to the expander cylinder with bench grinder and sandpaper ,carefully like we arent complete heathens.... you could still use dies as the maker intended but leave necks a little tighter than usual...same deal by sanding ball down heaps just quicker to do.
the new tapered one works well in the wee case,I will just be very aware not to allow it to creap up in body of die again.
on a side note...... the .223 LEE trimer thing, the shaft with primer hole pin attached to cutter ,will work on .222 case too,and on some brands of case the thicker shaft will bottom out inside case at just the right distance of cutting to leave cases at 1.7" ...perfect this idea came to mind as already have .223 cutter rod,but know its 0.06 too long for the smaller case,by neglecting to put case head in holder it works...funny when I first got the tool I trimmed a .270w neck down really short before realizing what the other bit of gear was for..... rookie mistake but it seems the knowledge of it has been of some use years later LOL.

OK.....So another thought out of left field on this one....
why not meet in the middle???
if loading.284 calibre use the .277 ball
if loading .277 use the .264
if loading 6.5mm use the one for .25 cal
if doing .25 use the 6mm
if doing .224 use the .204

so your dies still function the way the always have,but the neck is only expanded back out a LITTLE bit...still going to be tighter than with normal expander ball...

we did it with 7.62x39mm,I just stopped using the .311 ball/rod and kept the .308 one in as usually used those projectiles anyway.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

OK.....So another thought out of left field on this one....
why not meet in the middle???
if loading.284 calibre use the .277 ball
if loading .277 use the .264
if loading 6.5mm use the one for .25 cal
if doing .25 use the 6mm
if doing .224 use the .204

so your dies still function the way the always have,but the neck is only expanded back out a LITTLE bit...still going to be tighter than with normal expander ball...

we did it with 7.62x39mm,I just stopped using the .311 ball/rod and kept the .308 one in as usually used those projectiles anyway.

but the neck is only expanded back out a LITTLE bit...still going to be tighter than with normal expander ball...
You have annealed your brass. Sized. The neck is perfect. Why do you have to "expand" it a bit more? You chamfer the inside of the neck so no shaving. The projectile seats with out any issue and you have perfect tension. 2C. Annealing makes the case a perfect fit [in all dimensions] All the gorilla stuff with work hardened brass is a distant memory. You add in an unnecessary step with the expander. Why do you need to expand it? The projectile should fit inside the case mouth each and every time because it has been properly sized.

your last line has me confused....
but its all good,I was just musing a middle ground.