Fire forming AI brass

Hey, this is a process I have not done before and I was thinking of doing this without a projectile. The general method I can find on the net is to use about 10g pistol powder (Unique, AP70N) Cream of Wheat to the neck junction and then plug with polyester filler. Easy if you know what that shit is! I guess Cream of wheat could be substitute with semolina? and the polyester filler is just the stuffing out of a pillow? Any ideas would be appreciated or do I just fire form with loaded ammo. It just makes sense to me to save the barrel from another 100 rounds as well as the reduced cost of more pills etc.

you could always try one of theseThe Rifleman's Journal: Reloading: Hornady Hydraulic Forming Die

I just found a useable fireforming load with a 105 amax jammed, with sighting in, bit of barrel cleaning and gong shooting and some dead goats Iv only 40 out of a box of 100 to go.They are fully formed and ready to go.

Robs 22-250AI's we just do a load for fire forming, Usualy easy to get due the less harmonics with the brass taking some of the sudden preasure while it streaches, Both times it was 4x4 rounds and found a load, so 16 rounds load development and 84 rabbit and Pooks (distruction order when they are seeding) ...Not one miss...well so he says :P

Then in that it has been 1gr more for the best group and only 16 rounds loaded to test the load in the formed brass and its all go...might try another powder one day to get some more speed but he is happy as with the way it shoots.... James your old stock is on that rifle ;)

My 243AI was deadly accurate form firing as well but using the 87gr Vmax and 90gr BT......Goats didn't like it anyway and the kids loved shooting the steel hanging paddles as well.... Just had to watch Rose or she would empty the box if given the chance :D

lethel, what powder were you using in the 243AI? Was thinking either 2213SC or 2209 (or Win760).

2209 I got better all year round performance with the 90gr pills (1:10 twist) the W760 load turned to shit with temp change... running quite a mild load now to save the brass, Although I will try V100 at some point as it seams to run less preasure per speed than 2209 so might be able to crank it up again.... One day when I get time.
What twist are you runing? 105 pills? N165 maybee :)

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Originally Posted by leathel

2209 I got better all year round performance with the 90gr pills (1:10 twist) the W760 load turned to shit with temp change... running quite a mild load now to save the brass, Although I will try V100 at some point as it seams to run less preasure per speed than 2209 so might be able to crank it up again.... One day when I get time.
What twist are you runing? 105 pills? N165 maybee :)

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The barrel is a 26" Trueflite 1:8. I plan to run the 105VLD as it has a very high BC. I have some N560 but the stuff scares the shit outta me after the hideous fire cracking I got in my Rem Mag in under 100 rounds. Maybe N165 would be less savage? I will have speed to burn I hope in the AI so it will be more of a search for ultimate accuracy than anything.

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

The barrel is a 26" Trueflite 1:8. I plan to run the 105VLD as it has a very high BC. I have some N560 but the stuff scares the shit outta me after the hideous fire cracking I got in my Rem Mag in under 100 rounds. Maybe N165 would be less savage? I will have speed to burn I hope in the AI so it will be more of a search for ultimate accuracy than anything.

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You might want to stay away from V100 as well then as I am sure that is a double burn powder as well :P

I never did load work with the heavy pills so can't help on that. Sam got some pretty quick loads fire forming with the 105 amax...Not sure how the brass handled it but I am pretty sure it was with N165.

I use N165 in the RUM with the light pills but I wont be looking for fire cracking....ignorance is bliss (although I did back off when the primers started falling out) and I want a new barrel with a faster twist for that anyway :)

How about a buggered barrel or offcut and chambered with same reamer/headspace and fire out of that? know a couple of guys who use that for case foruming

Use a reasonable load for fireforming, dont run it hot and enjoy shooting.Heat and pressure kill barrels, if your getting top velocities then your running top pressures, theres no free lunch no matter what powder you use, Iv heard horror stories about many different powders killing barrels ( hunters and shooters can jump to conclusions way to quickly).but really worrrying to much about barrel life sucks the fun out of the game.

RL17 gave me superb accuracy and speed out of my old .243AI

3250+ fps with 105 A-maxes and 1 ragged hole. I still have no idea why I sold that rifle.......

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Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

RL17 gave me superb accuracy and speed out of my old .243AI

3250+ fps with 105 A-maxes and 1 ragged hole. I still have no idea why I sold that rifle.......

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That was my barrel, fireforming I used N165. Can't remember the load, but it was book max for 243 out of Nick Harveys book. Accuracy was as good as with formed brass, just about 150fps slower from memory...

Sent from my GT-I9000T using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

RL17 gave me superb accuracy and speed out of my old .243AI

3250+ fps with 105 A-maxes and 1 ragged hole. I still have no idea why I sold that rifle.......

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I have a full bottle of RL17 waiting for a use so thats good to hear. Was it very temperature sensitive?

Im reaming my old barrel and using up the 105 targex before reaming and fitting the new barrel...

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Originally Posted by baldbob

Im reaming my old barrel and using up the 105 targex before reaming and fitting the new barrel...

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Sweet, problem solved. Will send you my brass tomorrow:thumbsup:

it could be done PM if ya want but how long till ull need the brass?

James,
An easy way to fireform brass is to use a powder with a fast burn rate (shotgun powder), in your case AP70N, to provide the pressure.

Put in your normal primer, 10 to 15g of powder (for the 243ai) and then using a small screwdriver or rod push a 3/4 inch square cleaning patch (cotton) into the case above the powder to keep the powder against the primer, push it down well.
It is possible to use too much powder and ruin your brass on the first shot so start at 10 grains and check how sharp the formed shoulder is, only you will know if more powder is needed.
Dont forget to lube the outside of the case with redding sizing lube so that it moves/conforms to the chamber wall with a nice sharp shoulder.

load the case into your rifle and fire it in a safe direction. The cleaning patch flying out the barrel is not harmless and make sure you fire it into a backstop or safe area.

So easy to do, just keep an eye on barrel heat while you are doing it, give the barrel time to cool down if you have to. I have done countless brass this way and its great. :thumbsup:

Then give your barrel a good clean, and fire your last fireforming load down it, this puts a film of carbon on the barrels internals so your first ever projectile fired in your new barrel has some carbon "lube" to help reduce fouling and speed up the bedding in period.

All this info and much more can be found in the "precision shooter magazine" a fantastic read and well worth the cost.

http://www.precisionshooting.com/

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

James,
An easy way to fireform brass is to use a powder with a fast burn rate (shotgun powder), in your case AP70N, to provide the pressure.

Put in your normal primer, 10 to 15g of powder (for the 243ai) and then using a small screwdriver or rod push a 3/4 inch square cleaning patch (cotton) into the case above the powder to keep the powder against the primer, push it down well.
It is possible to use too much powder and ruin your brass on the first shot so start at 10 grains and check how sharp the formed shoulder is, only you will know if more powder is needed.
Dont forget to lube the outside of the case with redding sizing lube so that it moves/conforms to the chamber wall with a nice sharp shoulder.

load the case into your rifle and fire it in a safe direction. The cleaning patch flying out the barrel is not harmless and make sure you fire it into a backstop or safe area.

So easy to do, just keep an eye on barrel heat while you are doing it, give the barrel time to cool down if you have to. I have done countless brass this way and its great. :thumbsup:

Then give your barrel a good clean, and fire your last fireforming load down it, this puts a film of carbon on the barrels internals so your first ever projectile fired in your new barrel has some carbon "lube" to help reduce fouling and speed up the bedding in period.

All this info and much more can be found in the "precision shooter magazine" a fantastic read and well worth the cost.

Precision Shooting Magazine - Welcome

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Andrew, do you not use any filler? Some articles suggest this is needed to drive the case out into the correct shape. Typically it is Yankee data using Cream of Wheat. My reading suggests this is something like Cremota or Semolina?

No filler, the fast burning powder makes all the pressure you need forcing that cleaning patch out the neck of the brass, and as previously mentioned dont put in too much powder, as you can over pressure the brass first shot and loosen the primer pocket, without it ever having held one !!!

Id say Shotgun powder is a formidable beast in the wrong quantities.

Using fill in the case when fire forming dose give a slightly better fire formed case than the patch and shotgun powder but when using fill it dose leave you with allot of mess to clean up, either way works well enough if done properly.

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Originally Posted by Terminator

Using fill in the case when fire forming dose give a slightly better fire formed case than the patch and shotgun powder but when using fill it dose leave you with allot of mess to clean up, either way works well enough if done properly.

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Donald, would you recommend any locally available product for fill rather than Cream of Wheat? i can do this outside so mess is not a problem.

Hi kiwijames, I've fireformed quite a few cases for my 300Lapua improved. I use N320 from my pistol shooting days and oat bran from supermarket with a patch to plug the end. Work up from a lite load something like 10gn in .243 till you get the case forming out fully. Just finished 50 cases for my 338-416 but it took 27gn to fully form the brass and had less than a .001 run out in the necks.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

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Made that step many weeks ago
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