Thread: First Reloads - Evening Session

Yesterday afternoon, I was lucky enough to be invited out to a Forum members farm to do a bit of sighting in over a chrono.
Thank you to that forum member, you know who you are!

This was an exciting evening; it was the first time firing my Brand-New Hells Canyon, first time that I have ever tried my own reloads and first time using a muzzle brake.

6.5 Grendel
First up, I needed to re-sight in my 6.5 Grendel Howa Mini (20in Standard Barrel, DPT Suppressed).
The VX5HD that was mounted on this, has since moved to the Hells Canyon, and it was now wearing a 3.5-10 VX3.

I have always used the Factory Hornady Black 123gr ELD-M with this rifle, and in its early days had some mixed results.

Previous Chrono data;
Fouling = 2429
2 = 2444
3 = 2405
4 = 2471
5 = 2435
6 = 2443
7 = 2418
Average (excluding Fouling / Cold Bore) = 2436
ES (excluding Fouling / Cold Bore) = 66

Last night’s Chrono data;
Cold Bore = 2430
2 = 2473
3 = 2469
4 = 2470
5 = 2460
6 = 2471
7 = 2474
Average (excluding Cold Bore) = 2469.5
ES (excluding Cold Bore) = 14

After the above, I am glad I stuck to this round, goes to show after a couple boxes of Ammo, things can settle down!
Convinced for the time being that I don't need to look at reloading for this cartridge.

6.5 PRC
Next up, I needed to ensure the 6.5 PRC Hells Canyon now wearing the VX5HD, was on paper (26in Barrel, Factory Radial Brake).
I will admit, I was a little nervous about recoil on this! Previously owned a Suppressed Sauer 100 7mm08, and would kick the crap out of me, more recently owned a Suppressed X-Bolt 7mm08 and it doesn't bother me.
However, 90% of my shooting lately has been done with the unnoticeable recoil of the Suppressed Grendel. So, yes, jumping from the Grendel to the PRC had me apprehensive.

Box of Factory Nosler 140gr BT's opened!
Well, after the first shot, the nerves were gone! I cannot believe how much the Radial Brake works! Recoil was less than the X-Bolt 7mm08, and muzzle lift was almost non-existent! - Absolutely stoked!
Fouling / Cold Bore = 2646
2 = 2590
3 = 2576
4 = 2607
5 = 2650
6 = 2657
7 = 2474
Average (excluding Cold Bore) = 2616
ES (excluding Cold Bore) = 81

Soo... Not so flash. *Bad joke alert*, need to make sure I didn't just use Creedmoor ammunition, as those velocities are not where I would have expected them!
Now, granted, this is a brand spanking new barrel, so some sort of break in needs to occur.
That being said, the above data was taken with a grain of salt.

Now, first reloads to test.
Once fired (not in this rifle) Hornady Brass, FL resized, Federal 210M, 143gr ELD-X Projectile and 2217 Powder. All loaded to SAAMI length.
Disclaimer, I have been told that both being a new rifle, and someone else’s once fired brass, or even using virgin brass in not going to necessarily provide usable data. So, if anything at least this whole exercise provided 26 rounds towards barrel break in.

ADI Min = 51.1 grain with expected 2708 fps
ADI Max = 58.1 grain (C) with expected 2917 fps

1. 51.1 2430
2. 51.1 2473
3. 51.1 2469
4. 51.1 2470
5. 51.1 2460
6. 51.4 2532
7. 51.7 2548
I believe when I loaded these, I had decided working from min to max in .3 increments would use a lot of precious components. I am unsure why I instead of moving in 0.5+ increments, I just decided to start higher up the charge scale.
8. 55.4 2797
9. 55.7 2822
10. 56.0 2877
11. 56.3 2864
12. 56.9 2886
13. 57.2 2844
14. 57.5 2856
15. 57.8 2903
16. 58.1 2921

Primers looked great all the way through, at no point did I experience a heavy bolt lift.
The only items of note were some slight ejector marks on 57.8 and 58.1.

Things to take away from this session.
- I need to refine my Brass Trimming and Case Resizing (Some rounds were slightly more difficult to chamber than others.
- I need to find a system that allows me to be as consistent as possible whilst reloading.

All in all, I had a great night, and I am very appreciative of the invite.

Now to dive right, head first and blindfolded down the rabbit hole of reloading!

Good stuff mate. Goes to show how much performance can be unlocked when you roll your own ammo

Curious to hear peoples thoughts.
If the above data was useable, how would you interpret it?

Im seeing 3 areas to explore;
56.0 - 56.3 has reasonable velocity with a 13fps difference (2877fps - 2864fps)
57.2 - 57.7 uses more powder and yields lower velocity with a 12fps difference (2844fps -2856fps)
57.8 - 58.1 has best velocity with a 18fps difference (2903fps - 2921fps)

Chase accuracy, rather than velocity.
How about pics of the groups ?

@Frogfeatures, maybe next time. Other than sight in, I wasn't chasing groups so no images.

I'm very new to reloading so I just cherry picked the method that seemed to make more sense to me.

Theory in this case is that a flat point in velocity can point to a load that is more forgiving.
If my load is +/- 0.1gr out or hot day vs cold day, I shouldn't experience massive deviations in velocity.
Accuracy can then be chased with seating depths.

End of the day its all learning. So if I find myself chasing my tail, I may abandon this method and just start chasing groups.

Awesome stuff but if you can find a different powder ie RL26 maybe Hodgdon superprofrmance you may get better speed as you are only in .260 vol area.
But that's a good start, what length Barrel is your Browning.
You are getting into a very addictive pastime.

Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk

The Grendel appears to be in good velocity so if accuracy is there no change needed. The PRC is showing good velocity with the last two loads so work on accuracy with those. As 25/08 IMP said a powder change could just up velocity and may provide good accuracy, problem is can you get another suitable powder.

@25 /08 IMP Barrel length is 26in with 1-7 twist.
Had been thinking about RL26, but was no point chasing any until I had tried the 2217.

That being said, whilst certain powders are hard to find, I may just look for a that'l do load to hold me over.
@Mooseman the Grendal is still on Factory loads, velocity is consistent, and accuracy is definately there!

Will look at doing up a couple more rounds between 57.8 - 58.1 to verify velocity and check groups.

Greetings @kiwi-adam,
You are on your way. Don't be surprised if every thing you learn poses two more questions. The new barrel will take time to bed in so I would suggest picking a load you like the look of, load a batch, check your zero and go hunting. By late Autumn you might have closer to 100 rounds down the barrel and things will be starting to smooth up. I note that, other than the last round there was an upwards trend with the factory loads velocity that I would expect from a new barrel. This may go on for a bit. Handloading is a process of continuous development rather than instant results. I would suggest a charge of around 57.5 grains which will give you around 2,850 fps which beats the factory stuff hands down so there is a handloading plus right there. Relax and enjoy the handloading journey.
Regards Grandpamac.

For your PRC I would next find the max COL where the projectile is engaging lanz. Measure the COL this should be a bit longer than SAAMI and perhaps quite a bit more. My own rule of thumb is back off by 10thou and seat pills to that COL. You will gain case capacity and avoid compressed loads, and drop some pressure. You could then work up carefully above the book max, given you’ve not encountered pressure signs so far. Monitor carefully for pressure after each round (head stamp or swipe marks, bolt lift, etc). Restart ladder at 57 and see how you go

@grandpamac looking back over my numbers, I am not sure how that last one crept in there. The Shot 7 (2474), was a duplicate from the Grendel, but the edit function wouldnt let me scratch it off.

I am going to relax and enjoy loading up some rounds this weekend with the 57.5 area being the focus.

I am more than happy with a load around 2850fps, and if that creeps up as barrel settles, I certainly wont be complaining.

Always appreciate your input! Thank you for jumping in!
@chainsaw, thanks for that input. I did notice slight swipe marks on top 2 loads.

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Shots 10 through to 14 puzzle me.
Would you take those velocities as accurate or could they be up and down due to being either end of es?
I usually have trouble with es and need to do three or five shot strings to get an average.

Greetings 7mmwsm and all,
The average increase in velocity per 0.3 grain increment for shots 8 to 16 only works out to about 15 fps. The ES of shots 1 to 5 is 43 fps or almost 3 times the increase due to the powder increment. As you suspected the velocity variations from ES are producing the apparent ragged increase in velocity. Plotting shots 8 to 16 on a graph and drawing a best fit straight line through them would demonstrate this.
Regards Grandpamac.

@7mmwsm & @grandpamac
It would appear that during the transition from paper to forum I also managed to misalign some data, corrections below in bold.

Measured with a Labradar and Brass was once fired Hornady (fired in a different rifle).
1. 51.1 - 2430
2. 51.1 - 2473
3. 51.1 - 2469
4. 51.1 - 2470
5. 51.1 - 2460

6. 51.4 - 2532
7. 51.7 - 2548

8. 55.4 - 2753
9. 55.7 - 2797
10. 56.0 - 2822
11. 56.3 - 2877
12. 56.6 - 2864
13. 56.9 - 2886
14. 57.2 - 2844
15. 57.5 - 2856
16. 57.8 - 2903
17. 58.1 - 2921

I have now loaded up 5x of each; 57.2gr, 57.3gr, 57.4gr & 57.5gr to try out this weekend.

I expect data will be fairly different to last, as this time I will be using my Shooting Chrony and Brass is Virgin Hornady.

I will be using this exercise and the previous exercise to mainly increase the barrel round count and as a practice run on load development.
Aim is to mainly get to know my rifle a little more, and gain a better understanding of what I am looking for in the data.

Once all my virgin brass has been once fired, I will turn my attention to finding a consistent approach to reloading.
I can then potentially re-run this exercise shooting 5round groups, from 55gr to 58gr recording both velocities and group sizes.

I should also mention that main purpose of this rifle is hunting not match shooting.

Thanks again for everyone's input! It is all valued.

Originally Posted by kiwi-adam

@7mmwsm & @grandpamac
It would appear that during the transition from paper to forum I also managed to misalign some data, corrections below in bold.

Measured with a Labradar and Brass was once fired Hornady (fired in a different rifle).
1. 51.1 - 2430
2. 51.1 - 2473
3. 51.1 - 2469
4. 51.1 - 2470
5. 51.1 - 2460

6. 51.4 - 2532
7. 51.7 - 2548

8. 55.4 - 2753
9. 55.7 - 2797
10. 56.0 - 2822
11. 56.3 - 2877
12. 56.6 - 2864
13. 56.9 - 2886
14. 57.2 - 2844
15. 57.5 - 2856
16. 57.8 - 2903
17. 58.1 - 2921

I have now loaded up 5x of each; 57.2gr, 57.3gr, 57.4gr & 57.5gr to try out this weekend.

I expect data will be fairly different to last, as this time I will be using my Shooting Chrony and Brass is Virgin Hornady.

I will be using this exercise and the previous exercise to mainly increase the barrel round count and as a practice run on load development.
Aim is to mainly get to know my rifle a little more, and gain a better understanding of what I am looking for in the data.

Once all my virgin brass has been once fired, I will turn my attention to finding a consistent approach to reloading.
I can then potentially re-run this exercise shooting 5round groups, from 55gr to 58gr recording both velocities and group sizes.

I should also mention that main purpose of this rifle is hunting not match shooting.

Thanks again for everyone's input! It is all valued.

Greetings Again,
Just because I drew a graph earlier today so it is your earlier data. I did spot that there was no reading for 56.6 grains.

The old data is plotted but it hardly matters. I have drawn a best fit solid line through the data and dotted lines at 30 fps plus and minus. You can see that the data pretty well fits in that 60 fps ES. I would not worry too much about the ES as it is sure to improve as the barrel smooths up over the first 100 rounds or so. I find graphs really useful when analysing data and determining which loads to try. Saves a lot of ammo. I usually draw graphs for the load data I have and then chronograph a mid load to validate the data. Start loads ore often lower than expected as you discovered.
You will develop your techniques over time.
Regards Grandpamac.

Latest results

Managed to lay down behind an old Alpha Chrony to try my last lot of loads using 143gr ELD-X, 2217 and Virgin Hornady Brass.

57.2gr, had the first couple not register, so had to re-adjust chrony.
- , - , 2867, 2850, 2873

57.3gr, was looking good until last reading
2873, 2863, 2871, 2869, 2840

57.4gr, was less consistent. Barrel was getting hot, so had a break after this string.
2859, 2852, 2875, 2869, 2840

57.5gr, barrel had cooled down.
2891, 2894, 2887, 2917, 2887.

Liked the consistency of 57.3 & 57.5, other than the odd velocity out from each string.

Might load these up again, and try them past a labradar.
Definately, will let her cool between each 5 or 10 shot string!