First time reloading lead projectiles. Some Issues, help

during lock down i brought some 35 Cal 220 gr bullets, gas checked and lubed.
Aiming for a subsonic load to complement my medium load 158gr XTP pistol bullet and my heavy load GameKing 225gr.
I only loaded 15 to start with.
I feed all the brass back into the sizing/de-capping die about 2-3mm, just enough to try and open the neck to add bullet seating. Often it took a lot of force to start the bullet into the case and sometimes it would shave off some of the gas check, on a couple the bullet did not go in straight. The worst i binned, others I picked off the lead swarf from around the case neck.
Some bullets were quite loose. So I did use the crimping die to set the case into the crimp ring on the bullet.
Also had problems with the bullet grabbing in the seating die and getting pulled out of the case.
Ended up seating the bullets in 2 steps. First with the seating die wound a long way in, then winding it out and taking it down to my required OAL.
Z

Check out Handloaders Manual Naramore 1943. i found a lot of empirical sense in this book when I went looking for answers to some of the questions you have - it is freely available on the internet.

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

during lock down i brought some 35 Cal 220 gr bullets, gas checked and lubed.
Aiming for a subsonic load to complement my medium load 158gr XTP pistol bullet and my heavy load GameKing 225gr.
I only loaded 15 to start with.
I feed all the brass back into the sizing/de-capping die about 2-3mm, just enough to try and open the neck to add bullet seating. Often it took a lot of force to start the bullet into the case and sometimes it would shave off some of the gas check, on a couple the bullet did not go in straight. The worst i binned, others I picked off the lead swarf from around the case neck.
Some bullets were quite loose. So I did use the crimping die to set the case into the crimp ring on the bullet.
Also had problems with the bullet grabbing in the seating die and getting pulled out of the case.
Ended up seating the bullets in 2 steps. First with the seating die wound a long way in, then winding it out and taking it down to my required OAL.
Z

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You need a special die to open up the first part of the neck to seat cast lead. Also shout yourself a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Its all in there.
Grandpamac.

A case flaring tool is what you are after. Lee used to make one that did from 30 to 45 cal, they might still do.
Another trick that i have employed is to deprime and reprime cases without resizing seat the bullet by hand and then use a lee crimp die to hold it in place. The rounds chamber and fire perfectly well.
I see you mention gas checks, for the bullet speeds you are aiming for these are unnecessary only above 1600 fps do they become important. They won't do any harm though you just won't get any benefit.
The advice on getting the Lyman book is really valid especially if you are off "down the rabbit hole"

For years I have used Lyman's M dies.
They create just the right amount of flare to start cast projectiles.
Also work for flat based jacketed projectiles.

Some dies have the flaring function eg my 32/20 CH Dies.

Probably hard to get locally though in your calibre.
Weren't super expensive at the time.

The Lee version seems to be available still.
https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION.../dp/B000N8N538

thanks guys. At least I'm not the first with this problem. Just the first time I have not used copper jacketed and generally boat tailed as well.
Have followed up those links and if I decide to continue down this path I will go shopping.
Z

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Originally Posted by zimmer

For years I have used Lyman's M dies.........................The Lee version seems to be available still. https://www.amazon.com/LEE-PRECISION.../dp/B000N8N538

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Not available via Amazon and other USA are listing it as "Back order". Reloaders (listed in theri catalogue $3+but not on the web site) are also nil stock but tell me that they have a Lee order arriving via ship in about 2 months time and it may be among that batch.

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Sapper

Not available via Amazon and other USA are listing it as "Back order". Reloaders (listed in theri catalogue $3+but not on the web site) are also nil stock but tell me that they have a Lee order arriving via ship in about 2 months time and it may be among that batch.

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Most of what Reloaders have in their catalogue is not available from the mometn the catalogue comes off the press. I suppose it is a good reference book though. Their redeemer is their website is up to date, not like many.

In the past I got a lot of Lee stuff from Titan. This was when most of the locals couldn't supply. Also got a Lee crimping die from Julian when he owned Workshop Innovation. He got it in special and didn't charge the earth,

Titan appear to have the expander but I didn't do a test order to check stock. Wouldn't be worth buying just the expander.

https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-p...reloading-dies

Aaah, just did a dummy order and also OOS.

As an aside the expander in the 30 m1 carbine set will do the business as well so if you happen to have a set your sorted. Not many m1 carbine bolt actions I'm picking but I have heard of a ruger Blackhawk revolver in it.

@ZQLewis You can download a FREE PDF format file copy of the "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook Third Edition" from here

https://tinyurl.com/y9b7x5ze

It is over 360 MB so if that causes you any problems, PM me and we can arrange to get a copy to you via "snail mail."

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Originally Posted by zimmer

Aaah, just did a dummy order and also OOS.

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"Oh ye of little faith"..............:D

I use the Lee die, it looks like Gunworks and Workshop Innovation have them in stock.

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Originally Posted by Cigar

I use the Lee die, it looks like Gunworks and Workshop Innovation have them in stock.

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Well spotted............ Their system accepted my order and as they claim that it will not if "Nil Stock"...Cracker.

My thanks .

Great, Have started to download that Lee manual. Thanks Kiwi.
Found the die at Gunworks $30 + fr
Z

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

thanks guys. At least I'm not the first with this problem. Just the first time I have not used copper jacketed and generally boat tailed as well.
Have followed up those links and if I decide to continue down this path I will go shopping.
Z

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You need a Lyman M die like zimmer said but not the Lee it is only a flaring tool not a proper expander you will
still have the problem of the neck squeezing down the bullets, Your local Gun shop can order you one,
Or I can get you one, you need the 35 cal Short if available the standard one will work but is better suited to the30/06 length case.
Cheers
Robert.

Bother, the Lee die arrived on Friday.
Was thinking slight opening of the neck, set the bullet, then crimp.
Already have the standard neck size and expander, coupled with de-capping.
Z

No problem using the Lee, once started in the flared bit the bullet is forced down parallel by the seating die and the neck holds it tight. I dont believe It will squeeze the bullet smaller and even if it did the sudden violent acceleration on firing will expand it again.

I use a chamfering tool I got for removing crimped in primers half my life ago
It just 45degree angles the case mouth so they slip in
Works great in 30 cal
I still struggle with straight walled cases

You need a case mouth Expansion die aka belling die
Lee makes a Universal one they are cheap as chips

Just bell the makes the mouth of the case the 1st mm or 2 bigger so the projectile starts easy

Quick follow up,
Finally got out to empty the first lot of loads I made with charges of between 9, 10, 11 and 12 gr of TB under the 220gr gas checked HP lead bullets.
9 gr was about 1040 fps and 12gr was about 1280 fps. (Only fired a couple so velocities very aprox.)
Using my ear with the Chrono I think the 10 gr loads where right on the edge of subsonic.

Last night I went and loaded a few more to take away this weekend. At this point I have not got the Lyman M die, Just used the Lee flaring tool.
I gave all the cases a genital touch to open the mouth and what a difference, no hassle with shaving lead or lube, everything when in straight and smooth. All the bullets where firm in the case, Then I just gave them a slight crimp into the bullet crimp grove.

So learning to take away is that the Lyman M die would be much easier to use as then you don't have to worry about a longer case over over working brass by over flaring the brass at the mouth of the case and then the flared brass getting crimped back in again. You only need a very small amount of flare to easy the bullets in.
(NB I do check my sized brass in a Wilson case gauge for length + head space and I cycle them through the lever action as well)

At this point for the small number lead bullets I shoot the Lee Flare die can work for me but if I was to do more regular shooting or higher volumes them the Lyman die would get purchased. ie for me doing 10-20 rounds at a time then fine.
Z

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Originally Posted by mimms2

I hope you bought them dinner first!
:D OMG!

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Ko Ko or was that OK, Ok, I meant to say.
Well picked up mimms, would you believe I passed 7th form (yr 13 for the youngsters) English.
Nothing like a bit of dyslexia to trip someone up. I normally have to re- read and then edit most of my posts at least twice for them to make sense even to me.
Z