Thread: Good Progress With My Subsonic Mission

I don't remember exactly when I experienced a 'silencer' for the first time. Maybe around 1970 my Dad cut a thread on the barrel of our Anschutz .22 rimfire and then made a simple silencer for it. Because the thread he used seems to be a standard thread for some 'shop' silencers, I'm guessing he must have researched the topic at the time. I seem to recall around this period you could buy 'Parker Hale' silencers for .22s.

My Dad and Uncle were both ex-army, and both were keen on hunting and all sorts of firearms. They decided it would be great to have something like the De Lisle Silent Carbine to play with. This would have also been in the early '70s I guess.... and at that time I was unaware of anybody using a suppressor on anything bigger than a .22 rimfire. I understand that the De Lisle was built around a Lee-Enfield action, but it was chambered for .45 Colt. Dad had served his time as a fitter and turner, and he made a suppressor for a Lee-Enfield and fitted it in his home workshop. The suppressor tube was a big one that covered a lot of the barrel. I don't ever recall this rifle being fired with a subsonic cartridge, but chances are my Uncle Robin would have loaded up some cartridges to try. We didn't have Trail Boss powder back then, but I seem to recall him talking about 'fast powder' or shotgun powder. Uncle Robin introduced me to bullet casting and reloading. Using one of Robin's cast .303 loads I dropped a deer instantly with just one shot while bush stalking.

I stayed with Robin a couple of times in his bach up at Saint Arnaud. It was located right next to the main road not far from the village. Nobody seemed to be bothered when we tested loads for our .303s right next to the bach.

Here are a couple of photos showing how Dad constructed the suppressor for his Lee Enfield. I imagine that Dad probably would have 'sweated' the two fittings to the barrel with solder:





The silenced Lee Enfield sat around in a cupboard for a long time. Dad passed away in early 2004. A long time later, maybe seven years, I decided that I wanted a suppressed centerfire rifle. So I bought a .308 and a suppressor, and organised some reloading gear. I also pulled the old Lee Enfield out of storage. I couldn't get lead bullets to work in the Lee Enfield. I might have succeeded if I'd been prepared to slug the bore and make bullets of exactly the right theoretical size, but I couldn't be bothered. On the other hand, lead bullets worked wonderfully well in my .308 (apart from not expanding of course). So I made up some subsonic .303 British cartridges using Trail Boss powder and some jacketed projectiles. That suppressor worked very well indeed, and I wished that my Dad and Uncle could have been around to witness how quiet and how accurate the rig was. I don't recall how fast the projectiles flew, but my goal would have been maybe 1050 fps and I imagine they travelled at around that velocity. I had an old Chrony to help me develop the load. Here is a video I made showing how it worked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u7x4Ok52JU

I hunted with subsonic cartridges in my suppressed .308, but it didn't impress me. It could certainly kill things, but the bullets didn't appear to expand much (I didn't generally find them though). It didn't seem to offer much of an advantage over a suppressed .22 rimfire (apart from much greater energy) for the odd occasion where noise was best kept to a minimum. I'd shot numerous goats and pigs with a .22, and the suppressed rimfire was a heck of a lot quieter and lighter to carry than the .308. If I didn't need to be quiet, then I had other big rifles I could use. So I sold my .308 (actually I had two and sold them both... good firearms, but they didn't fulfil my dreams).

Lack of expansion isn't really a huge problem to me. I think back to all the success my family had using .303 rifles and military full jacket ammo. Sometimes a bullet might tumble... or hit a bone and make a big mess... but often all we got was a small hole passing right through. But we got plenty of meat and I don't recall many 'lost' animals.

Oddly... the last deer I shot was with a borrowed 7mm 08. I had a perfect broadside shot on a fairly open hillside at a distance of maybe 100 yards. I squeezed off a shot I felt very confident about, but lost sight of the animal because of the recoil and the high scope magnification. It took quite a while to find that deer. I didn't see any blood. I found it when I asked myself what direction would the deer most likely have gone... it was about fifty or seventy yards away.... very dead... in a most inelegant pose with legs and neck at funny angles. It looked like it had collided with the tree I found it next to. When I skinned and butchered the deer, I found there was tremendous damage. Not only was it a good lung shot, there was a huge amount of bruising on the exit side, the gut bag had burst and I found gut content in a large artery in a hind leg. I was in awe of the explosion that apparently occurred when that bullet hit. Yet the deer ran out of my view. Compared to a lot of guys my age, I've shot very few deer.... but I don't recall any other I've shot (with either a .222 or mostly .303 with mk vii ammo) running as far. The most instant drop I recall seeing with any deer was the time one appeared maybe fifteen yards away when i was carrying a .22 loaded with Peters hollow cartridges. I shot it between the eyes and it collapsed on the spot without a wriggle. I don't recommend little bullets for large animals, but it was all I had and it worked well on that occasion.

So... I guess in that previous paragraph I was saying that big expansion isn't necessarily always going to stop an animal running once hit, and a small projectile hole can still get good results. However, I believe it is best to make a big hole if possible. After selling the .308s I still wanted to be able to minimise the noise I made... not only to avoid disturbing the neighbourhood, but also to reduce the noise I was being subjected to. I often carry earplugs when hunting, and sometimes I am able to get them in before shooting... but this isn't always practical.

My next step was to get a Rossi Puma stainless .357 magnum with a 16 inch barrel. I wanted something with a bit more power than a .22. I loaded subsonic cartridges using my own cast bullets and I got my most accurate results with a Lee 358-125-RF bullet. This load gives me maybe three times the power of a standard .22 rf, and a much bigger hole in the target. And it is relatively quiet with no suppressor fitted. Lovely little gun. For longer shots I eventually bought a scoped Howa .223 and a suppressor. This is a very nice unit. And super accurate compared to the 'standard' of army ammo shot from an army rifle with iron sights. When I got a group of under an inch at 200 yards using factory ammo I was delighted.

I still had a deep longing for a quieter centerfire. I bought a Bergara BA13 .357 magnum. These very nice single-shot rifles come threaded for a suppressor from the factory. I fitted a cheap scope to it while I experimented with loads. It shot well with bullets I cast. Initially I had the 125 grain mould mentioned above, and a Lee 358-158-RF mould. While I was sure that a 158 grain cast bullet with a big flat front end would be adequate, if used carefully, for shooting deer even at subsonic speeds, I knew I'd feel better if I could shoot a heavier bullet. So I got a Lee C358-200-RF. Using 4.8 grains of AP70N I find I have pretty accurate bullets travelling at around 960 fps. I may be able to increase this speed, but the accuracy is so pleasing with the current load, I am reluctant to make changes. This load is only accurate in the Bergara. Today I shot four rounds through the Rossi (loading it 'single shot') and the bullets slapped sideways through my target at 25 yards.... with a group size of at least six inches for the three bullets that actually hit the target.

So what's next? Well, I recently gave away my last Lee-Enfield. I felt a bit sad doing this as I have carried Lee Enfields around for many miles, and I've shot hundreds of rounds through them. They are a big part of our family tradition. But recently I've done some serious thinking about what I want to do with the remainder of my life. I get the pension this year and I'm going to still be pretty busy. Playing with noisy old rifles isn't a high priority. I think the next step will be to buy another Bergara BA13 .357 and fit it with a decent scope and a suppressor. Then I will have the open-sighted version I love to carry when exploring, bush-stalking or dealing with trapped pigs.... and I will have the 'precision' version when I want to reach a bit further in poor light conditions. I know I could use a .308 or 300 Blackout with special (expensive) projectiles, but I like to cast my own and experiment. I might sell the Rossi levergun as it won't get much use now. And the thought of a suppressed 45-70 is appealing.....

Great post, best I've read on here in ages.

That .303 with your fathers homemade suppressor is/was awesome. Very quiet in the vid.

Thanks Dama, it is something I'm enthusiastic about.

Yes fantastic post and good lord that suppressor is incredible!!!

It is interesting that the suppressor is so quiet without any 'secret' design or space-age materials. Just a big, empty tube. I looked up my records and saw that I used 9 grains of Trail Boss and a Federal large rifle primer for the load. I recorded the speed as 950 fps from the Lee Enfield. If I'd been able to use lead projectiles, I probably would have got the same velocity with less powder (and theoretically less noise). Around the same time I was using 7.5 grains of Trail Boss to propel a 170 grain lead bullet from the .308.

Have you tried Trail Boss in the .357?

Your post reminds me of a chap who owns a substantial shooting center in UK showing me his first rifle with a moderator many many many years ago the moderator was a large section of an alloy scaffolding pole we were both impressed I think it was on a 270 win fired in the farm courtyard I thought shit my ears will bleed as he loaded and fired it before I could stick my fingers in my ears!!!

Yep Xtightg, hooray for the pioneer experimenters. I like, and agree with, the quotes in your footer.

I do use Trail Boss in the .357. 4.7 grains propel the Lee 358-125-RF bullets to around 1080 fps. I get good hunting accuracy from this load in my Rossi levergun, and they shoot very well out of the Bergara. The other two moulds that I have are the Lee 358-158-RF and the C358-200-RF. Both will shoot pretty well with Trail Boss, but I can't get enough Trail Boss under them to get above 1000 fps. I think 4.2 grains of Trail Boss is just about the maximum that will fit under the 158 grain lead bullet without the powder being compressed, although I'd get more in if I didn't seat the bullet as deep as I do. The 4.2 grains sends a 158 grain lead bullet down the range at around 945 fps, which is probably plenty fast enough for a lot of purposes but I figured I may as well have the extra 100 fps if I can so I started using AP70N. Having said that though, my current favourite load of AP70N giving good accuracy with the 200 grain bullet only drives it around 960 fps. I hope to experiment more in the future.... trying to get that speed up a bit, and I will be looking around for other heavy bullet moulds with better terminal performance in mind. Although I'm pretty confident that my current 200 grain bullet will do the job if I hit the right spot.

General warning to future readers..... My shell cases, my scales and my batch of powder may differ from others. I may also be an idiot. So it is best to consult manufacturers' data when working up your own load.

Hey @Coote, most enjoyable read.

Something for you to consider down the line is a suppressed Ruger 77/44 .44 Remington Magnum. I'm playing with one of these right now, with cast lead 270gr bullets and Hornady XTP 240gr.

7.0 or 7.5gr of AP70N for 900-950fps, with a quiet report, or 8.0-8.5gr for around 1050fps and a little more noise.

I struggled for accuracy at first but found that it was a mechanical rifle problem. Once this was sorted out I am really pleased with accuracy. And having used this rifle on heavy pigs in the bail, feral goats on the hill and sheep in the yards, I can assure you that it takes no prisoners... none at all.

Yes it is a short range tool, but man does it pack a punch. What has been a real eye-opener for me, as a newbie to subsonic large bore pistol rounds in lightweight rifles, is the almost complete absence of peripheral damage and the high meat recovery.

By the way having done some tests on hollowpoint cast lead bullets I can say with reasonably high confidence that they expand to roughly 2x calibre in medium game. I'll do another "milk bottle test" with this .44 either this afternoon or tomorrow and film it and show you what the bullet looks like afterwards. To that end the animals I have shot with the hollow points have died very quickly indeed... death by big hole.

I would add to that by saying the angle at which you shoot the goat makes a huge difference, with the .44 I try and get them quartering towards or away from me, so the bullet travels diagonally through the body. Shot like this I haven't had one make so much as an attempt at a run. However if you shoot them in the classic straight through broadside position there isn't as much resistance and they tend to run a bit before bleeding out.

@Flyblown have you tried doctoring them as I suggested yet????

great writeup @Coote maybe the 357 maximum might give you what you require...I believe its pretty much the same just got a slightly longer case giving slightly more capacity.....diference being about the same as 357 mag from 38 special.

The .357 Maximum is amazingly good for its size & does what a 35Rem does with the same bullets, I have been going to build a .375 Max Rimmless for over 10ys & put it in a Sako L461 or Mini Mauser, but it has been hard to get barrels here last 10yrs & a faster twist would be great to shoot 300gr subs, well a couple of years back a guy makes up a .357Max Rimmless for AR15 use & calls it .357AR I think, great some one saved me doing it, then just last year Winchester brings out the near same cartridge the .350 Legend, so could this be the go ?

Thanks for the interesting and encouraging comments. Dunno what my next rifle should be. I really like the .357 magnum calibre, although I need to have a few more successful hunts with it just to see what it is capable of. I like the look of the Ruger 77s, but I have been a bit put off with reports of accuracy problems - so it was good to read a success story here. I'd love a Ruger No 1, or some other old style single shot with decent steel sights to play with as I try different loads and practice shooting with open sights. With a longer barrel and modest subsonic loads I might not even need a suppressor.

I like single shots, especially when they have an exposed hammer. Simple and safe, and I'm more likely to save the brass after a shot.

After playing around with the factory sights on the Bergara, I had some more encouraging results when I shot it today. I obliterated the fluorescent glow from the fibre-optic sights with the use of a dark black marking pen. I painted a white dot on the foresight and filed a decent V in the rear sight. I got much better definition and some reasonable shooting results, although not as good as I'd like. It would be fine for close shots in the bush though.

I had previously had a scope on the rifle, but I'd taken it off to experiment with the open sights. Today I refitted it, and found that the point of aim was spot on and no adjustment was needed. And I shot a good group of new reloads while sitting with a pair of crude shooting sticks supporting my left hand. The group might not cause a bench rest shooter to have a premature ejaculation, but an inch and a half group at sixty yards centred around my point of aim is plenty good enough for me at present considering that the maximum point blank range for my rig shooting at a two inch circle (rabbit size) is around 75 yards. Without special gear, judging distance and managing the 'drop' gets tricky for me beyond this range. I like to keep things uncomplicated. If I need to shoot something at a greater range I can use a faster cartridge. Cheers !

CORRECTION: In the post above I stated incorrectly that my maximum point blank range for shooting at a two inch circle is 75 yards. I checked the table I generated with the Federal Ballistics Calculator, and it seems that 69 yards would be nearer the maximum range for a two inch circle. Things drop pretty quickly after that. At 75 yards the bullet is 1.9 inches low.... at 80 yards it's 2.7" low.....

I fitted a GCL compact 4 x 32 scope to the Bergara (thanks to Gonetropo). I was surprised and delighted to find that the open sights do not appear in the image I see through the scope. This scope has lower ring mounts than my previous scope, and I had to file a wee bit off the top of the knobs at the front of my Picatinny rail to allow the scope to fit. I took it out in some rather windy conditions today to sight it in. I bore sighted it before I went out. I found that the shots were pretty right horizontally (windage), but I had to crank it up about 30 clicks to get the right elevation. I was pleased to get groups of under 2 inches at my range of sixty yards. I'm content with this for now seeing I was shooting from a sitting position using my crude shooting sticks for support... and considering the wind.

The picture below shows the rifle with the new sight. You can see some paper tubes I've made to stop the cartridges getting damaged and dirty as I carry them about. The lead bullets are quite soft. The idea is to carry maybe three cartridges in a pouch with the twisted end of the paper tied to the pouch so that I can quickly grab a cartridge if I need another shot.

As artists or movie critics might say, the rope sling is 'homage' to my humble upbringing.