Help Tearing rims off when reloading 223

:dark mood: I've reloaded 303,7mm,308,8mm over a period of about 50 years, no problems no issues and I still have all my fingers. Recently my grandson purchased a 223 remington. OK reload , no problems...Wrong, the Lee 223 reloading die set I purchased may have an issue or I am doing something wrong. I keep ripping the case rims off. Never had this problem. The shell holder is a number 4. Dies are stamped .223,I lube the cases sparingly and everything feels OK until I get to neck resizing and then the case parts company with the shell holder and leaves parts of the rim behind, and turns the case into toast.
Any body got any ideas, because I'm about to have a stroke......:nose bleed:

Turehu

What Lube are you using?

Is the decapping pin/neck sizer set deep enough?

If it is not set deep enough then you may get the results you have described.

I also lube the inside of the neck with a cotton wool bud rolled over the lube pad a couple of times.

Also the Lee shell holders can sometimes be a bit loose.

You may want to try an RCBS shell holder to eliminate this as a cause.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers
Pete

Hi Pete

Lube is "One Shot nh" I've used for a few years with no problems , but you need to follow their instructions, if you use it wet it makes pressure pits.

Played with depth setting because had problems not ejecting the primers at recommended settings, think I've got right.

I'll try the neck lube.

Yes.. the shell holder is looser compared to the other calibers. Something I never bothered to check before. Serious shooter here I come...

Cheers Tad

Turehu

One shot lube is pretty good, lube the inside of the case neck it will help.

Push the decapping/neck sizer pin down a little deeper if your just ejecting the primers, this will give more clearance between the pin and the die body in the neck area.

Also forgot to ask what brass are you using ... not that that should matter much.

Hope you can work it out.

Cheers
Pete

Pete,
:D Might have it sussed, reset the decapping pin, lubed the inside of the case and munted another case. Really pissed by now pulled the decapping pin out to check the button in case some dick had put in a 243 button by mistake when it was assembled. The button was the correct size but the finish was really poor, machining marks were naked eye visible. Put it in the lathe and burnished it to mirror finish and lost just under a 1/4 of a thou. Fixed the problem and it all worked really smooth.. I would have never credited that a rough finish on the button would have had such an effect. Be interesting to see if the marginally smaller button has any effect on accuracy, but I couldn't tell if it was tighter when seating the projectile. Have ordered a RCBS shell holder anyway. Thankyou for your help Pete
Cheers Tad

Interesting to hear how you go with those reloads.

I know it's not the question you asked.

If you want a load recipe, my go to load for 223 re 26.2gr AR2206h / CCI Small rifle primers / Hornady Vmax 40gr -or- 53gn Vmax seated at 5 thou off the lands.


Obviously the normal caveats around testing the load with caution in your own rifle applies - as this load is close to book max.

This load is grouping at 1/4 in at 150yds out of my 1:12 twist Tikka T3.

regards

Tim

Anneal and lube the inside of your neck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turehu

Pete,
:D Might have it sussed, reset the decapping pin, lubed the inside of the case and munted another case. Really pissed by now pulled the decapping pin out to check the button in case some dick had put in a 243 button by mistake when it was assembled. The button was the correct size but the finish was really poor, machining marks were naked eye visible. Put it in the lathe and burnished it to mirror finish and lost just under a 1/4 of a thou. Fixed the problem and it all worked really smooth.. I would have never credited that a rough finish on the button would have had such an effect. Be interesting to see if the marginally smaller button has any effect on accuracy, but I couldn't tell if it was tighter when seating the projectile. Have ordered a RCBS shell holder anyway. Thankyou for your help Pete
Cheers Tad

---

Tad

Good work on spotting the rough finish on the sizing button.

It's always satisfying when you have nutted out a problem and get a good result.

I have found that the RCBS shell holder may be a few thou tighter than the Lee and this should give you some extra confidence.

Cheers
Pete

Had the same issue with a lee pacesetter 223 set, it only did it with Highland nny, marked cases and then not every one the machining on the decapping pin was fine, but the shell holder had chatter marks in it. Got an RCBS and its all good now.

Hi Tim
The object of the reloading was to find a comfortable and reasonably accurate load for a first time rifle user, My grandson aged 14 and a flyweight in build has been busting his guts to fire my 8mm, if he did it would be his shoulder busted and he would be scared off firearms for the rest of his life. So we bought a RossiTaurus with 223 barrel and 12:1 twist. Much to my surprise after reading all the bad press and horror stories the rifle is not bad. Reasonably well finished, tight action, no misfires or punctured primers and a very efficient spent case ejection system. Open the rifle and it spits the case about 3m behind you. Probably more dangerous than getting shot.. We fired 40 rounds of factory to sight in and shake the rifle down a bit before playing with reloads. Anyway needed cases to reload.
Using ADI AR2208,CCI primers and Speer TNT HP 55gr. Started loads at 24.2gr and worked up to 26gr. Seating depth was trial and error.Chambered a round, had a look at the lands marks on the bullet and racked the seating plug down one turn.Using factory open sights at 50 m it grouped at 6 moa on the lighter load and 4 moa on the mid to high loads. One of the rounds at 26gr fail to make it to the target and I suspect it self destructed before it got there, it just disappeared. For comfort and a "feel good" feel 25.2 gr was it. The young fellow coped easily with the recoil and the noise didn't spook him. Accuracy was acceptable as he managed to avoid flinching. As he improves I'll progress him to a scope and then he can do some real shooting while I can play with the reloads.
Regards Tad

Hey Tad,

Good news that you got the young man up and running.
I'd suggest a scope and a Suppressor.
We got them for our 223 and 243 and the reduction in recoil and noise level is amazing. the cost was $400 plus fitting and the rifle didnt lose any performance with it - in fact it gained a little.

Keep us posted with your progress.

Tim

Yeah good stuff. Still curious as to how you're tearing off the rims though, got any pix of the process in action ?

Likewise,
I'd have to be suspicious of a sloppy shellholder. As suggested, you'd never have to worry if it were an RCBS

Bugger I chucked the shells .
Because the cases had only been fired once it was a neck resize only. No problem going down. halfway up it got a bit tight and the case popped out of the shell holder munting the rim. I did a "wobble" test on a couple of other sized shell holders, 8mm, .303 and found that the cases didn't wobble near as much as the 223. Yes it was the correct shell holder, No4. Conclusion, poorly finished resize button and a sloppy shell holder. Am now the proud owner of an RCBS shell holder, and yes it is tighter and no more problems.
Surprised no one commented on the disappearing bullet. It was to say the least a WTF feeling. Did we just murder an innocent sandfly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turehu

:dark mood: I've reloaded 303,7mm,308,8mm over a period of about 50 years, no problems no issues and I still have all my fingers. Recently my grandson purchased a 223 remington. OK reload , no problems...Wrong, the Lee 223 reloading die set I purchased may have an issue or I am doing something wrong. I keep ripping the case rims off. Never had this problem. The shell holder is a number 4. Dies are stamped .223,I lube the cases sparingly and everything feels OK until I get to neck resizing and then the case parts company with the shell holder and leaves parts of the rim behind, and turns the case into toast.
Any body got any ideas, because I'm about to have a stroke......:nose bleed:

---

I just got the 223 ultimate Lee set this week, no4 sounds the right holder. I have done 400+ cases so far in the last few evenings not one issue (except 50 FNM's were berden, didnt snap my pin fortunately) So ADI commercial. ADi military (ie crimped) FNB (crimped), hornady, Privy, FC, LC (crimped) R-P (commercial) no problems. Neck re-sizing? so the collet neck only die and not a full resize?

You could send me a handful to try if you want and see if i get the same issue, PM me if so. I'll try say 10 full and 10 neck?

The other thing is the gun has a fault that is weakening the rims? are spent cases hard to extract? do they look frosted on the outside?

Where did the ammo come from? ie bought new off a known source/shop?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turehu

Bugger I chucked the shells .
Because the cases had only been fired once it was a neck resize only. No problem going down. halfway up it got a bit tight and the case popped out of the shell holder munting the rim. I did a "wobble" test on a couple of other sized shell holders, 8mm, .303 and found that the cases didn't wobble near as much as the 223. Yes it was the correct shell holder, No4. Conclusion, poorly finished resize button and a sloppy shell holder. Am now the proud owner of an RCBS shell holder, and yes it is tighter and no more problems.
Surprised no one commented on the disappearing bullet. It was to say the least a WTF feeling. Did we just murder an innocent sandfly?

---

I did notice my Lee 223 shellholder is excessively sloppy as well compared to my 308 and 303brit, I was thinking of replacing it, now I will definitely will.

Interesting discussion.

I am reloading .223 Norma cases, have about 400 cases now into 3 use of these cases.
Rifle is a Savage Model 12 .223 with 1:7 twist, Norma cases, Winchester Small Rifle Primers, 24.7 gr 2208 with 80 gr A-Max projectiles.

I use a lee press and lee shell holder and haven't seen the problems described, only neck size the cases.
I do lightly lube the inside decapping/neck sizer before use, don't lube the cases, doing about 100 at a time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steven

...didnt snap my pin fortunately...

---

Don't worry, you will one day :D and then you can join the club !

I snapped 1 x 308W (berden primer) 2 x 303brit pins (no idea why, tough crimps? glue?) last year so that makes me a free life member I reckon.

:thumbsup:

@Cyclops I suspect Lee's idea of quality control is fix it if the customer complains. What I was noticing was the case flopped so bad in the holder it cocked so I had to guide by hand a lot. Anyway I've ordered a 223 rcbs holder off gunworks at the same time as ordering the rcbs de-crimper. I'll comment on how it feels when I finish off my 300 odd batch.

[QUOTE=steven;343680]I snapped 1 x 308W (berden primer) 2 x 303brit pins (no idea why, tough crimps? glue?) last year so that makes me a free life member I reckon.

:thumbsup:[/QUOTE
Yep, snapping a pin is like forgetting to put the bung in the boat, until you've done it you are a nobody.:thumbs:

I got some lead shot out of a 12 ga shell and put it in a small plastic tube with some graphite.If you dip every 3rd or so case mouth in it really helps the expander come out.

I just drag my lubed finger across the opening to get some inside.

and of course then there's case sizing as well.

:thumbsup:

Are we talking about the same thing.........?

I had a similar situation (but not as pronounced) Issue with my Lee 7mm Rem Mag full size resizing Die in the Ultimate set (with de-primer) recently.

Instead of the pulling off of the base of the case it bent the base at the point where the hydraulic action places the main level of strain on the case holder. It also created due to the finish of the inside of the die longditudinal marks down the case ( I don't think it was finished that well). Result was I kinked around 70% of the cases as I pulled them out of the die even when lubed, and some where so wobbly that they would not seat and allow the bolt to close on the chamber.

Expensive lesson to check new dies and progressively cases you are processing throughout the process including and side roll and wobble test on their end. Ended up binning about 70 rounds and use the neck sizer now as a result.

Hope this also helps anyone out there to clean and check new die sets with your firs batches of cases through them.

Cheers

RCBS shell holder seems tighter but not hugely.

De-crimping is slow work....100 down, 250 to go....

:/