How much is over fill in 223

Hiya guys I am loading for a mate who has read that varget is the greatest powder known to man for 223 and wants some made for him.
I am using 55 gr Nosler and started low as one would and have ended up at 27.5 gr which is bang on 3000 fps which is great the groups are good but the load is basically level with the top of the shell which to me seems high but thus far has been consistent with cases weighed prior for uniform weights.
Is there a down side to doing this I dont know about yet ???
thanks in advance

compressed loads can push the projectiles back out if you don't have enough neck tension or crimp

2208 is too slow for 55's, get some BM2 or 2206H or something and lie to your friend about what's in it if he insists on 2208

powder drop tube, I use the same load in my 223 but changed to 8208XBR as 2208 was painful to use in a progressive press

Yeah I'm with gimp, 2206H 26.8 grains in my ar loads with 55gr amax spit out at 3250, 18inch barrel. Very slightly compressed.

Yea also with Gimp BM2 works a treat

223 loads seem to come up with some frequency. Generally there seems to be a lot using BM2. I have never tried 2208 - don't see the need. Have always had stunning accuracy and good velocity with BM2. Recently tried an old can (and it was actually in a tin can) of 2206 and got great results with it in both my 223 and 308. Also recently tried IMR 8208 but accuracy wasn't as good as BM2.

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Originally Posted by gimp

compressed loads can push the projectiles back out if you don't have enough neck tension or crimp

2208 is too slow for 55's, get some BM2 or 2206H or something and lie to your friend about what's in it if he insists on 2208

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I am getting reasonable results with varget/2208 with 55gr CMJ's, bare in mind its not an optimsed hand load, just close.

Attachment 37055

I did run up to 25.5gr but that was worse than 24gr.

As the "discussion" is regards .223 loads, if you guys permit I also have a question about it. So far everybody who reply has said BM2 is great for the 55gn, my question is, what is the "general public" using for projectiles weighing 65, 69 or 75/77gn?
I do reload sierras 65 - 77gn but still using BM2 for it, I achieved good groups but not "high" velocities in the way I see(2800ft/sec), please, any considerations? I am thinking in try BM8208 or 2208(09) for those projectiles.

Thank you in advance.

Mac

2206H, 2208

I use BM2 with 62gr swifts and get 3250 same as the 55s I use.

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Originally Posted by PERRISCICABA

As the "discussion" is regards .223 loads, if you guys permit I also have a question about it. So far everybody who reply has said BM2 is great for the 55gn, my question is, what is the "general public" using for projectiles weighing 65, 69 or 75/77gn?
I do reload sierras 65 - 77gn but still using BM2 for it, I achieved good groups but not "high" velocities in the way I see(2800ft/sec), please, any considerations? I am thinking in try BM8208 or 2208(09) for those projectiles.

Thank you in advance.

Mac

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@PERRISCICABA

Loads used in my CMMG AR15 with a 16" 1 in 7 twist barrel

25grs BM2 with Hornady 60gr SP projectile MV 2850fps Group size about MOA

23.5grs BM2 with a Serria 65gr SP projectile MV 2695fps Group size slightly better than MOA.

22.5grs BM2 with @xring custom 69gr HPBT projectile MV 2520fps Group size about MOA

Only punched paper with these loads so far but have a Goat Hunt lined up to see how they go on animals.

I'm hoping the 65gr and 69gr projectiles will be good enough to take Goats Cleanly out past 200m if so I'll try them on a Deer or two and see how the perform there.

I also tried the 77gr serrias with BM2, it's showing promise, but i need to complete load development, accuracy wasn't MOA but it certainly was good enough to Hunt with.

I also use AR2206H and 55gr projectiles with good results in my Baikal single shot.

Smashes the Goats real good.

Cheers
Pete

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PERRISCICABA

As the "discussion" is regards .223 loads, if you guys permit I also have a question about it. So far everybody who reply has said BM2 is great for the 55gn, my question is, what is the "general public" using for projectiles weighing 65, 69 or 75/77gn?
I do reload sierras 65 - 77gn but still using BM2 for it, I achieved good groups but not "high" velocities in the way I see(2800ft/sec), please, any considerations? I am thinking in try BM8208 or 2208(09) for those projectiles.

Thank you in advance.

Mac

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I'm using 2206H for my 75 grain amax's. In a mates rifle it was 2910fps with standard length tikka barrel. I haven't chronyd my load as I just settled on a charge weight today. I should be around that also

2206h has been my go to for years using 50-55grn recently bought some Winchester powder as it was cheap but will go back to 2206h next time..it works so shouldn't have f*cked with it.

FWIW we finally chronographed our Savage Model 12 223 26" barrel 1:7 twist with our usual load - 80 gr A-Max, 24.7 gr 2208 in Norma cases.
Average 2834 fps. Shoots targets competitively out to 900 yards, 1000 yards in lighter winds.

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

FWIW we finally chronographed our Savage Model 12 223 26" barrel 1:7 twist with our usual load - 80 gr A-Max, 24.7 gr 2208 in Norma cases.
Average 2834 fps. Shoots targets competitively out to 900 yards, 1000 yards in lighter winds.

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Obviously you have a low ES?

Hi @P38 (Pete),
Thank you for your information, in the past I was shooting both 65 and 69gb sierras at 24.2gn of BM2 from my 19" Tikka T3 1/8" twist with groups at average 3/4" with the best at 1/2", velocities at that time average 2850ft/sec.
Now days shooting my Stag Arms model 6 shortened to 18" 1/8" twist it don't group very well, kind of 1.1/2" - 2".
I will RE-do my LD and will give an updated, in the main time if someone has a container of 2208 and would like to swap for a container of BM2 I have one full container to do so.

Thank you for all of you guys who did reply and for the advises given.

Mac

P.S.: I do have 2 containers of Winchester 760 for sale or swap. One container full other 4/5 full.

i use bm2 in my 204 its good
i then got a 223 not long ago and started with 2206h 55gr sgk projectiles it was ok but not great so tried bm2 and got better velocity better ES very consistent
a friend is using a powder that bemont arms are selling i think it is called st marks it is a very dense powder and getting very good results
compared to 2206h he was trying before that he has cut his 223 barrel down to 16inches i in 12 twist with a suppressor and is getting just over 3000 fps he could not get that using 2206h

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Originally Posted by 57jl

a friend is using a powder that bemont arms are selling i think it is called st marks it is a very dense powder and getting very good results
compared to 2206h

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Saint Marks is the enormous powder making facility in Florida - maybe the biggest in the world. The powder he has from Belmont is most likely a Winchester ball powder. Of them I have tried WW748 in my 223 but results were only so so. Use WW760 in my 6.5.

26.4 gns 2208 goes halfway up the neck,good results with the 62gn adi,2880 fps
26.5 gns 2208 good goat load with 55gn hdy sp
MARK

I think it is literally impossible to blow up a .223 with 2208, short of plugging the bore. In my experience 2208 is a never fail with regards to accuracy. Velocity on the other hand I have found depends on the type of projectile. It just spits some out faster than others of equal weight or similar construction, sometimes significantly.

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Originally Posted by marky123

26.4 gns 2208 goes halfway up the neck,good results with the 62gn adi,2880 fps
26.5 gns 2208 good goat load with 55gn hdy sp
MARK

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Please forgive me in take "advantage" from this thread. I just loaded few rounds with the 2208 for my AR15 with Sierra 69gn HPBT Match King, from top of my head the loads range from 24.5gn - 25.8gn.
I do acknowledge the max load is just bellow the maximum suggested form ADI book/website and it may be under the maximum "performance".
My question is, did or does anyone following this thread has or do reload this projectile with this powder? If yes, would "you" share your "average" load so i can keep my eye for accuracy in that powder charge range?

Please, be sure i am not trying to "copy" or "still" your load, i am just trying to find a "base line" to my load for my AR with 16" and 18" barrels, both with 1-8" twist.

Thank you a lot in advance.

Mac

Is no one using 2207 for the 223?
There's a few of us running it with 50-55gr projectiles. Minute of rabbit to well past 200.

I tried both 2206 and BM2, as well as BLC-2 to get 55 grn Barnes to shoot. None worked.
Then I tried 2208 and it was great. So it pays to shop around a little.
Conversely, the same rifle likes 2206 with 69 grn Targex. Go figure.

Anyone using AR2219?
KH

Yea I would be keen to try 2219 someday as well. Seems quite fast burning. Apparently it's the stuff the ADF use.

Hi Beavis
I hear it's great in the AR's for being clean.
KH

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Originally Posted by Beavis

Yea I would be keen to try 2219 someday as well. Seems quite fast burning. Apparently it's the stuff the ADF use.

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I have over 4 kgs of powder from pulled SS109 ammo. Pretty sure it is from Oz.
Is that likely 2219?
For the same charge as BMII it does the same velocity but different MPI.

The Propellant in your ss109 ammo with the 62g steel core projectiles was.....


Type ...............................WC 844
Weight ............................26.1 gr

It propelled the 62g steel core projectile at 3025fps with 55,000 psi chamber pressure

H335 is canister grade WC844 and is a good substitute

That's for American mil spec ammo, I would bet ADI use local recipes.

Sorry assuming it is ADI ammo that R93 had