I don't make things easy for myself... Die help requested.

Been shooting wallabies for a long time now and have developed a preference for using some overkill on them. Mostly because it's sometimes a bit snap-shooty, or awkward positions and I can't always get a perfect rest - so sometimes I just need to aim for centre of mass and rely on a bit more oomph to make up for a slightly larger wobble zone and less than perfect shot placement. The 223 does the job well but 20-30% of extra hate just flattens them more consistently with how I'm shooting.

With that in mind, I've been using my 6.5 Grendel a lot with 90gr TNT's and it's been going great. But I also had a problematic Remington 700 300blk which needed to be re-barreled, so I went with 6mm-204 Ruger.

Attachment 222476
55gr 223 right, 70gr 6/204R left.

That went for its first outing at the weekend. And it looks like it's going to be another awesome little round. 6x45 or 6 TCU with a little extra poke. Forming brass was a simple matter of necking up to 22cal, then 6mm, then poking a primer, powder, and a bullet in before shooting it at a roo. All my brass is now fired though and resizing it is proving to be a bit more tricky... Nobody makes dies for it.

I was hoping to use a 204 Ruger Redding body die and find someone able to open up the top a bit to ~0.263". Then I could use a mandrel to set the necks just right. But the gunsmiths closest to me are all getting a bit too risk averse and don't want to chuck a bit of hardened steel in a lathe.

Plan B was a 204 Ruger bushing die with a 6mm bushing. But I don't know if the opening at the very top of the shoulder prior to the bushing would be large enough for this to work.

Plan C is to see how far I get with neck sizing. Hornady does a generic 6mm neck sizing die (046041) but I don't know if the die body is short enough to get a 204 case up inside it far enough. Also can't find one in stock in NZ.

Anyone have any other ideas on how I could size these things?

hmm smokeyjason...any ideas??? terminater products will know how as they do these weirdo rounds

This might be a stupid suggestion I really have no idea but could you cut the 204 ruger fl die off at the point that it hits .263 and use it with the neck die? Another step I know just racking my own brain for ideas that way the fl in theory would get up to the base of the neck

what about the shorter version done on .223 case??? any dies around for that one??? they work fine just die will be higher and bottom of case not resized...

It did occur to me that I should flick a message to Greg, as I was writing this post. So yeah good call Mickey.

204R has a bit less taper and a sharper shoulder, so 6x45 dies are out.

Or running threw a 6arc die to do neck and shoulder and a cut 204 r die for the body?

6 ARC, 6 PPC, maybe even 6 BR dies could work as neck sizing dies, yes. Would still need to figure out something for the body and shoulder for when neck sizing reaches the inevitable conclusion. Same gunsmiths (presumably?) wouldn't want to cut a die any more than they'd want to ream one out.

Can @Jaco Goosen chim in hes a practical thinking ideas man

What about @akaroa1 ?

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Originally Posted by dannyb

What about @akaroa1 ?

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His good friend may be able to hone a body die out for me, if I can get the exact dimensions of one.

Have you looked on the American forums?

If you get a Redding Bushing die in 204R, you will need to ream out the junction where the bush sits, I did this for my 6x45 using a 223 Redding bushing die. Its pretty simple as the junction / bridge is not very thick. I used a mandrel on my Dremel with some 240 wet & dry paper strips to ream. If you don't open out, it'll just resize your necks back down again to less than .224

Did you find that the bushing was still sitting low enough to the shoulder to size the neck all the way down? I'd be going from 20cal to 24cal so it might be a bit thicker.

None of my Redding Bushing (well Neck Sizing) Dies size all the way to the shoulder junction. They stop short which is probabaly on purpose so you can not accidentally start to distort the shoulder by hitting the shoulder neck junction with the bush. That's even with them adjusted right down.
Became a problem for me when I wanted to do a tidy up neck turn and I was prevented cutting that slight radius out of the shoulder that I prefer. Risked reducing the neck wall thickness at the junction if cutting that far due to the unsized section. Body dies do of course.....

I'd be a touch concerned that if I didn't get it perfectly the same ID as the bushing that I'd either be doing something weird to the necks or encouraging donut formation.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

I'd be a touch concerned that if I didn't get it perfectly the same ID as the bushing that I'd either be doing something weird to the necks or encouraging donut formation.

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I don't know if you've realised but you are already "doing something weird" so why not go for it

Don't worry about doughnuts.
I have doughnuts sorted and have a patented doughnut removal technique sorted .
I have the ultimate doughnut caliber in the 6.5x65R. Big long sharply sloping case with a short neck in a small caliber.
So I had to solve that problem myself

I can talk shop a little bit but my skills with a dremel are agricultural at best. That kinda thing is definitely best left to someone who actually knows what they're doing! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Pommy

Did you find that the bushing was still sitting low enough to the shoulder to size the neck all the way down? I'd be going from 20cal to 24cal so it might be a bit thicker.

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As already mentioned, they don't size all the way, which I kind of like as to me the last portion of unsized neck is like an alignment tool actually on the case, when chambered. Less of a donut maker too, when you keep away from the neck shoulder junction.
I think this option is the best for you, as you get the benefit of adjusting neck tension with the bushes.

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Thanks for the heads up Kelton


Ive been looking into doing exactly this for some time. From my research it seams that most who has done this have gone the following route:
204 Bushing type Redding dies, with the appropriate bushing and then they've changed the decapping assembly to a 6mm pin and expander ball.

Honing the hole at the shoulder/neck junction open to .27ish should be strait forward.

Keep us updated on your progress Pommy - I went 6x45 by the way

I had a go with a 6br redding bushing die yesterday. Same shoulder angle and shorter, so I could run the case all the way up until the shoulder made contact. The bushing didn't size enough of the neck for my liking, so I'm definitely more inclined to try to honed out 204R body die and a mandrel.

I'll see if I can get a generic neck sizing die in the interim.

Have you had a look on the American forums? A quick search on google showed some discussions about it at least...

At one time RCBS and probably others would make custom dies if you sent 3 fired cases, Probably stopped doing it years ago but worth enquiring. Won't be cheap though.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by grandpamac

At one time RCBS and probably others would make custom dies if you sent 3 fired cases, Probably stopped doing it years ago but worth enquiring. Won't be cheap though.
GPM.

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Not that long ago Hornady was still doing it. You sent them 3 cases with the primer pockets drilled out, to get thru customs. The cases were not returned.
Most common was Hornady used to make a hydraulic forming die.

The RCBS custom shop has closed.

My searches through the yank forums haven't yielded any solutions I wasn't already aware of e.g. giving Whidden or CH4D lots of money and waiting months for custom dies.

I have ordered a body die and will try to get a 6mm neck sizing die.

Looks like RCBS offer the dies in their special order range. There is an article on the handloader website.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

I had a go with a 6br redding bushing die yesterday. Same shoulder angle and shorter, so I could run the case all the way up until the shoulder made contact. The bushing didn't size enough of the neck for my liking, so I'm definitely more inclined to try to honed out 204R body die and a mandrel.

I'll see if I can get a generic neck sizing die in the interim.

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Years ago I bought a generic neck sizing die made by Hornady. Basically a great big hole with the sizing bit at the top. I bought it to size my 22-250. The die was absolutely shite and due to no case support did an excellent job of inducing runout. I later converted it to a dedicated decapping die.

I'm using a Hornady 22cal neck die and Redding body die for my 22-250AI. Appreciate it might be inducing some runout but it's not having any noticeable negative effect downrange.

My 6.5 Swede Ackley has a FLS die made using the chambering reamer. Unfortunately using the chambering reamer it only just FLSizes, barely enough.

I bought a centre bored blank ex USA which sped up the process.
The die has been electroless nickeled in an attempt to give it more "squeeze".

For neck sizing a and seating I have 6.5x55SM Redding Comp dies whose sliding sleaves have had the reamer run thru them.

My dealing with Dave at CH4D were very timely but I only bought std dies off him.
Whidden was OK timely wise too but their expensive bushed FLSing die was no better than what I was using.

Useless info which is probably not much use to you.

so you know you can resize the walls of body with a 204 die..but neck will be squished inwards too much...but if you cut the top off it would do the sides..leaving neck n shoulders to do.... IF the shoulder angle is the same as the 204 you can do that bit too,just leaving neck itself to be sized now the redneck in me says you could do it with and 6mm die if you cut enough off its bum
you could infact do the neck BEFORE doing the body and if these fellas on here are correct you wont need a expander ball at all simple slip your boat tailed projectile into sized case and let it open neck up itself...
there just has to be an easy way to do this

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Originally Posted by Mathias

As already mentioned, they don't size all the way, which I kind of like as to me the last portion of unsized neck is like an alignment tool actually on the case, when chambered. Less of a donut maker too, when you keep away from the neck shoulder junction.
I think this option is the best for you, as you get the benefit of adjusting neck tension with the bushes.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

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Not to mention that extra case capacity created at the junction :thumbsup:bonus!

Might be off on the wrong tangent, but what about a wilson blank reamed to the right dimension and a bushing.

Greetings @Pommy,
One thing that you might want to try rather than expensive and hard to get dies is firing a light load in the cases when the become difficult to chamber. At one stage I used to neck size a lot of my cases and also started to use reduced loads for 100 and 200 metre shooting in my .308. I found that after one light load cases that previously were tight much easier to chamber. This triggered a memory of someone writing that you should keep cases used for light loads separate from those used for full power loads as the headspace was reduced due to the firing pin strike and the primer backing out. You may want to try a light load in some snug cases to see if it works in your case. I was using 38 grains of AR2206H behind the 155 grain plated projectiles. This likely gave a pressure in the mid 30,000 CUP area. From memory the Handloader article listed powders like H322 and IMR8208 so you should be able to find a load for AR2206H which does the trick. I will have a better look at the article when my mag arrives later this month.
Best of luck and PM me if I can help.
Regards Grandpamac.

I've got 200 bits of brass. In order to fire all of those - even with just a light load - I'd need 200 primers, projectiles, and a good bit of powder. I reckon with today's prices, I'd be better off paying for an expensive die. None of my brass is hard to chamber... yet... It's once fired.

I have ordered the body die. Made an enquiry with Hornady to see if their neck sizing die isn't too long. And I'm hoping @Kiwi Greg will reply to my email at some point too.

Why why why!
After having traveled down the route of custom chamberings I have now declared to never create a rifle that isn't designed for that round and has to take easily available factory brass and dies.
I know, boring as bat shit, but fuck had saved me a heap of grief!

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Because I can?

I have boring as shit cartridges too.

Im 99% sure when I reloaded a few rounds for smokey jason...same as yours but 6.5mm /204 we simply used a 6.5 neck die on the .204 case and that was it...he must have had a seater die of some sort
I know when we loaded the 22/204 (which still cracks me up as its bloody near back to the 222magnum the case started life as) we just used me .223 neck die and seater with dies backed up n out required amount.

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Originally Posted by Pommy

Because I can?

I have boring as shit cartridges too.

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I'm hearing ya,
I think philipo had or got one of these chamberings, see what he reckons.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pommy

I've got 200 bits of brass. In order to fire all of those - even with just a light load - I'd need 200 primers, projectiles, and a good bit of powder. I reckon with today's prices, I'd be better off paying for an expensive die. None of my brass is hard to chamber... yet... It's once fired.

I have ordered the body die. Made an enquiry with Hornady to see if their neck sizing die isn't too long. And I'm hoping @Kiwi Greg will reply to my email at some point too.

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Granted,
Still a back up plan if all else fails though.
After spending a lot of time working in a planning role I tend to consider outcomes before starting projects. It keeps me out of trouble most of the time but at the expense of much of the fun.
Enjoy your rifle. It is what I call an "A what" rifle which is what you will hear quite a bit when you mention the chambering. My cupboard is regrettably bare of such rifles.
Regards Grandpamac.