Illegal to legal ammo conversion.

Hi All,
To avoid handing in what is now classed illegal ammo I'm going to convert steel cased 7.62x39 tracer to standard fmj.
To do this I'll need to pull the projectiles & either drill out the phosphorus or neutralise it. Does anyone know what chemical I can use to do this? I've heard of using shells dropped into turps to neutralise primers but what can be used for the tracer compound?
Alternatively I'll just drill out the compound & replace the lost lead with new lead then reweigh.
I know some will say it's not worth it but I hate having to give up the ammo to Jacinda when with a little bit of Kiwi enga,enga,enga....cunning I can convert the ammo & use them on the goats to add to the freezer meat.
I've been reloading steel shells for years.
I'm also in the process of making up a spring loaded gadget to fire of the corrosive primers on any pulled down corrosive primed ammo without using my rifle & at the same time & using the inertia from that to deprime the case so I can reprime with non corrosive primers of which I have a lot....anyone out there that would be willing to sell a stuffed x39 barrel so I can cut off the barrel & use the chamber to hold the shell as a starter?
Any help would be appreciated.
Phil

Phosphorus compounds ignite on exposure to air, coupled with fact that they will not be at all accurate or hard hitting with the compound removed. Your best bet is to buy some sporting projectiles and use those. Tracers are god-awful things for starting fires, not something we need in NZ in the summer!

Once you’ve got rid of the phosphorus sell the old projectiles to the scrappy to off set the costs of buying sporting projectiles.


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best way iv found to unload bullets is thru a rifle

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Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

Hi All,
To avoid handing in what is now classed illegal ammo I'm going to convert steel cased 7.62x39 tracer to standard fmj.
To do this I'll need to pull the projectiles & either drill out the phosphorus or neutralise it. Does anyone know what chemical I can use to do this? I've heard of using shells dropped into turps to neutralise primers but what can be used for the tracer compound?
Alternatively I'll just drill out the compound & replace the lost lead with new lead then reweigh.
I know some will say it's not worth it but I hate having to give up the ammo to Jacinda when with a little bit of Kiwi enga,enga,enga....cunning I can convert the ammo & use them on the goats to add to the freezer meat.
I've been reloading steel shells for years.
I'm also in the process of making up a spring loaded gadget to fire of the corrosive primers on any pulled down corrosive primed ammo without using my rifle & at the same time & using the inertia from that to deprime the case so I can reprime with non corrosive primers of which I have a lot....anyone out there that would be willing to sell a stuffed x39 barrel so I can cut off the barrel & use the chamber to hold the shell as a starter?
Any help would be appreciated.
Phil

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Mate she's a hazardous road to go that way

Read This https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracer_ammunition

If its UN ammo Strontium nitrate is used to give oxygen to the metal powder as it burns

You really don't want to touch/breath or eat it

READ THIS http://chemoventory.ps.isu.edu/msds/...1-14-201_7.pdf

If it Russian or Chinese they use Barium salts most likely Barium nitrate
READ THIS https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/02440.htm

Personally I'd swallow my pride and give it back. Hard as that is to say

You would have to be above man to tackle this. As mentioned, the chems are hazardous and reactive. That said, so is gunpowder, which is in close proximity. The risk of a fire or worse just isn't worth the risk, unless you are prepared to invest a ton in doing it safely.

If you go ahead, please video your efforts, so we can all watch the big bang when it happens!

It would be a waste of time and effort not to mention dangerous. You must have way too much time on your hands or an unfeasably large amount of tracer to even consider it.
Drilling out the compound will ignite it. Strontium nitrate for red barium nitrate for green. Pull the projectiles if you must and make fireworks out of them by throwing them into a hot fire one by one.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

It would be a waste of time and effort not to mention dangerous. You must have way too much time on your hands or an unfeasably large amount of tracer to even consider it.
Drilling out the compound will ignite it. Strontium nitrate for red barium nitrate for green. Pull the projectiles if you must and make fireworks out of them by throwing them into a hot fire one by one.

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This man has it right - your time is worth something - pull the heads - but as for anything else???????

My take is just USE it - I mean seriously how much can a man have.

I had the best fun using 300rnd of 7.62 before having my gun stolen.........was it a waste? - Yes, but hey sometimes shit happens.

yup, get a p endorsement. Use prohibited ammo disposal as your reason for needing the p endorsement.

Shit, I bet it is way easier to get P than it is to get a P.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

It would be a waste of time and effort not to mention dangerous. You must have way too much time on your hands or an unfeasably large amount of tracer to even consider it.
Drilling out the compound will ignite it. Strontium nitrate for red barium nitrate for green. Pull the projectiles if you must and make fireworks out of them by throwing them into a hot fire one by one.

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what do you do with someone who plays round with nasty chemicals like this??
after they die you barium................

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

what do you do with someone who plays round with nasty chemicals like this??
after they die you barium................

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Cue Applause.

Seriously, I disposed of 4 rounds of Romanian 7.62x39 tracer about a week ago by baking them off.

Google "Dakota Firehole" and you'll get the idea.

I dropped the rounds projectile first one at a time into embers in a small pit below ground level.

The amount of fireworks they made convinced me that messing with them ie pulling them from their cases, was a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by gonetropo

what do you do with someone who plays round with nasty chemicals like this??
after they die you barium................

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After they die you barium... Or rather whatsleftofthem.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

That's what I reckon Bill. I was planning on letting mine go at night (baddies like working under the cover of darkness) so no one knew what I was up to.

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need any help?

Also shooting animals with fmj is very unethical and inhumane. Use the right projectile for the job.

One other point in the original post. I just for shits n giggles once reprimed some wolf steel cases (boxer primed) worked ok but i had hundreds of brass ones anyhow and they dont go rusty.
Most ammo you find nowadays except for ww11 vintage is non corrosive primed anyway. The only exceptions are eastern bloc tracer and lake city 3006 match ammo from the late 60s.
The russian tracers berdan primed anyhow so requires special gear to deprime and a supply of odd sized primers.
The boy really likes a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Nugget connaisseur

Also shooting animals with fmj is very unethical and inhumane. Use the right projectile for the job.

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More animals have probably been shot in NZ with FMJ projectiles than any other...placement is more important than the "right" projectile.

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

It would be a waste of time and effort not to mention dangerous................... Pull the projectiles if you must and make fireworks out of them by throwing them into a hot fire one by one.

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OR hand the projectiles over to to Constable Plod to worry about how to dispose of them. Cases you keep and probably reload with conventional.

More animals WERE shot with FMJ projectiles eg the cullers, because that was what was available at the time. And even they tried various methods of doctoring the projectile tips to give more certain kills.

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Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

Hi All,
To avoid handing in what is now classed illegal ammo I'm going to convert steel cased 7.62x39 tracer to standard fmj.
To do this I'll need to pull the projectiles & either drill out the phosphorus or neutralise it. Does anyone know what chemical I can use to do this? I've heard of using shells dropped into turps to neutralise primers but what can be used for the tracer compound?
Alternatively I'll just drill out the compound & replace the lost lead with new lead then reweigh.
I know some will say it's not worth it but I hate having to give up the ammo to Jacinda when with a little bit of Kiwi enga,enga,enga....cunning I can convert the ammo & use them on the goats to add to the freezer meat.
I've been reloading steel shells for years.
I'm also in the process of making up a spring loaded gadget to fire of the corrosive primers on any pulled down corrosive primed ammo without using my rifle & at the same time & using the inertia from that to deprime the case so I can reprime with non corrosive primers of which I have a lot....anyone out there that would be willing to sell a stuffed x39 barrel so I can cut off the barrel & use the chamber to hold the shell as a starter?
Any help would be appreciated.
Phil

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I had a case (or two) of Steel cased FMJ 7.62x39 a number of years ago. I purchases a bulk lot of Barnaul soft points and pulled al the FMJs and reloaded them with the soft points. Then I sold the FMJs for about what I paid for the soft points (I had them listed on trade me and apparently there were several people who were "quite keen"....)

I used a collet style puller so that there was no need to redo the powder. Just swapped projectiles. But one "trick" I did learn......When pulling the bullets, first step is to PUSH the bullet in sightly further to "break the seal" of the seating / crimp etc. Once it has moved it is easier to remove. But do not push it too far. It only needs to move a mm or so to break free and there is still room for the puller to grab it.

I would not bother with trying to alter the projectiles (Tracer) The projectiles a) are not valuable enough to warrant salvage and b), getting each one precisely altered in exactly the same way so they weigh the same and balance the same is probably beyond the skill level of 90% of people. (and the remaining 10% know how much work is likely to be involved and wont start....)

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Originally Posted by zimmer

More animals WERE shot with FMJ projectiles eg the cullers, because that was what was available at the time. And even they tried various methods of doctoring the projectile tips to give more certain kills.

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Yes I remember that
The normal modern FMJs though are made to tumble on impact especially if bone's hit so act like a hunting round anyway. If up close they genearlly pencil through but beyond 100yds they do the job ok. I've seen the Xrays of people hit in arms/legs with these & there's amputations every time due to the massive damage. I hit a red yearling hind through the lungs @ 20mtres with a Norinco fmj & the exit hole was about 8cm dia with heaps of blood loss over the 50mtres it ran. Normally I used sp or hp but have these tracers so thought I'd give it a go. If no one tries we'll never know. If people don't want their x39 fmjs I'll have them. It's the replacement of the corrosive primers & reloading that started me thinking of reloading the tracers without the compound.

Is that not just due to the high velocity/shape of the projectile? Been watching YouTube vids on heavy round nose slugs and these generally barrel straight through everything. Was a good vid. Seemed to practically demonstrate the "brushgun myth"

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Originally Posted by Dead is better

Is that not just due to the high velocity/shape of the projectile? Been watching YouTube vids on heavy round nose slugs and these generally barrel straight through everything. Was a good vid. Seemed to practically demonstrate the "brushgun myth"

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Heavy round nose fmj bullets drill straight knitting needle holes through soft targets. They were improved by at the Dum Dum arsenal in India by having an tip with exposed soft lead core. They got banned by the Hague convention, but are continued for hunting only.

Spitzers - pointy bullets - are rear heavy and front light, and tumble on impact. They also fly further than round nose bullets. They don't desperately need the exposed soft lead nose due to the mess they make by tumbling on impact.

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Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

Hi All,
To avoid handing in what is now classed illegal ammo I'm going to convert steel cased 7.62x39 tracer to standard fmj.
To do this I'll need to pull the projectiles & either drill out the phosphorus or neutralise it. Does anyone know what chemical I can use to do this? I've heard of using shells dropped into turps to neutralise primers but what can be used for the tracer compound?
Alternatively I'll just drill out the compound & replace the lost lead with new lead then reweigh.
I know some will say it's not worth it but I hate having to give up the ammo to Jacinda when with a little bit of Kiwi enga,enga,enga....cunning I can convert the ammo & use them on the goats to add to the freezer meat.
I've been reloading steel shells for years.
I'm also in the process of making up a spring loaded gadget to fire of the corrosive primers on any pulled down corrosive primed ammo without using my rifle & at the same time & using the inertia from that to deprime the case so I can reprime with non corrosive primers of which I have a lot....anyone out there that would be willing to sell a stuffed x39 barrel so I can cut off the barrel & use the chamber to hold the shell as a starter?
Any help would be appreciated.
Phil

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Attachment 120745
Image of a tracer bullet, OK a 7.62x54 NATO rather than eastern block one, but idea is the same - the cup at the back caves in on firing, the hot gases get into contact with the delay burning compound (to ensure tracers don't light up straight away and give away shooter's position) and then 100 yards or so downrange they start burning brightly. Preventing hot gases from contacting the compounds is key to inactivating tracers.


Something from cast boolits web site:
Deactivating tracer projectiles - Page 2
"I use a hot glue gun to seal .30 cal tracers. So far so good. I stick the nozzle in the cavity and pump till it starts flowing out and then back it out while squeezing the trigger, this ensures complete fill and adhesion. After the glue has set I use a single edge.razor blade to cut the glue off flush with the bullet base.
I initially tried Elmers carpenter glue with poor results, it doesnt stick.well.and.becomes brittle."

Which leaves you with what to use the now no-longer-tracers for. Could use them for rabbits or hares or just target shooting on private land. Not sure the fire hazard if they splatted against a rock or hit a tree trunk - could that ignite them and make them incendiary bullets??

Here they are used in a shotgun - clearly not easy to light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX45JtKcH1k

Thanks guys. Will bear in mind advice & experience given. Will try to alter ammo over the next few days & will let you know how it goes.
Finally completed the corrosive depriming tool & it works fine. By detonating the corrosive primer using this tool (obviously pulling the cartridge apart first) I can now reprime with the Berdan primers I have & reload as per normal. At the detonation the old primer lifted out of the pocket automatically.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Yep. You can ride in the police car when they turn up. I'll be going in the other direction really fast.

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Some bastard was doing that this morning at 4am or it may have been BIG fireworks, I didnt get out of bed to watch

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Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

Thanks guys. Will bear in mind advice & experience given. Will try to alter ammo over the next few days & will let you know how it goes.
Finally completed the corrosive depriming tool & it works fine. By detonating the corrosive primer using this tool (obviously pulling the cartridge apart first) I can now reprime with the Berdan primers I have & reload as per normal. At the detonation the old primer lifted out of the pocket automatically.

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Become a bonafided cartridge collector today!! You have to register with your AO today

Okay; Pulled tracer projectiles leaving powder in case.
Drilled a hole on a block of wood slightly smaller dia than projectile, placed it in a vice & put the projectile in place. I first tried prying out compound plug with an awl but only managed to pierce it so wiggled it to get some compound out & put a match to it as it sat in the wood. There was an almighty red whoosh as the compound ignited then in about 2 seconds it stopped.....first one done no worries. The others followed suit with only a couple not igniting so drilled the plug off & lit it up. no problem. The compound doesn't explode as some have inferred, just burns brightly & hot. I'll full length resize other steel cases; reprime; put the powder in them then concentrate on detonating/depriming the original shells & reload.

Reloaded altered projectiles into other prepped steel shells & used the Howa mini to try them out. Over the chrony they averaged 2301fps with no pressure problems or damage to me or the rifle.
Projectile weights average were 116.6 gns for the drilled out ones I fired but 110.5 for the ones I burnt off. I didn't do accuracy as it's raining. So if there's anyone out there with heaps of tracer then it's doable to convert to legal FMJ.

Wow you have time to spare. Why do people get so worked up over corrosive primers? Theyre not bloody nitric acid, just a minute trace of salt. Ask anyone who shoots mil surplus 303 or pre 70s 3006 a damp rag or if you wish a slosh of hot water through the bore cleans it out completly then oil. Just stick them back in the cases and get on with it.
I will keenly await your accuracy testing as the weight distribution in the projectiles will have been changed and the temper of the steel jackets in the ones you burnt out may have been destroyed.
Tracer at best has the reputation of having a "in the general direction of over there" accuracy rating.

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Originally Posted by Tararua Phil

Reloaded altered projectiles into other prepped steel shells & used the Howa mini to try them out. Over the chrony they averaged 2301fps with no pressure problems or damage to me or the rifle.
Projectile weights average were 116.6 gns for the drilled out ones I fired but 110.5 for the ones I burnt off. I didn't do accuracy as it's raining. So if there's anyone out there with heaps of tracer then it's doable to convert to legal FMJ.

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Did you try plugging the rear end of the tracer with hot melt glue / epoxy?

Must say, best idea on this thread was to bin the tracers once you pulled them. Tracers also won't tumble as well as a normal spitzer since they're nose heavy rather than tail heavy. No great loss to send them to a landfill.